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an executive order. >> You did. In compliance with the open public meetings act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. Notice was posted on the township's official website and posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting. Notice was also published in the township's official newspaper

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directing the public to the township's legal notices web page in accordance with applicable applicable law. Everyone please rise to salute the flag called by a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

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for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] Okay. Just got to shut the door. >> [clears throat] >> So, um, I just got a brief statement

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before we begin. So, thank you all for attending our special meeting regarding the proposed YMCA. Collectively, we all care about the well-being and economics of our township and its success. I'm asking you to be open-minded and think objectively during this presentation. Just a very brief background of what we

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are asking you to contemplate. Over the many years I've been in town and having served on many of its boards, a common complaint has been how the township has developed in the last 50 years. What has been lacking were master plans to maintain a historic district, a village district or downtown, a sense of community or slice of Americana, if you

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will. Over the years, attempts at adjusting zoning maps or land use has fell by the wayside to either inaction or shifting priorities or in some cases, state intervention. This inertia has had consequences. In as little as 15 years, the town has added a few hundred affordable housing units

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with the mandate that the town would bear some responsibility for constructing those units. That is but one example. The point is that government priorities and circumstances can change and change quickly. So, the township is all but out of options to create a center of town or a town square

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except for one. The township owns 10 acres of property between the Wawwa and Lacy Road between the Wawwa Lacy Road and Gilly Park. With the YMCA as a partner, we are asking you to consider developing a center of town or a town square to enhance the quality of life and create that community space.

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The YMCA will provide a place to play, to learn, to be healthy, and to interact with other people in our town. They'll give parents child care, young adults job training, seniors a way to connect, and children a safe place to go. Everything the Y does is in service of making sure people and communities

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thrive. So in that context, I hope you can understand what we are trying to accomplish together so that Lacy is truly a destination and center of southern Ocean County. And with that, I'm going to turn over to the Y. >> That's >> okay. Can you hear me? Okay.

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>> Good evening. >> Hello. Uh my name is Rod and I'm a guest in the community uh this evening and I wish to start my remarks with words of gratitude for your inviting us to be part of this

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promise focused and hopefilled night in Lacy Township. Likewise, I wish to extend our gratitude to the mayor and the committee members uh for ever having tapped us to be of service to Lacy Township in support of

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you in this productive community initiative. As you invite us in, you allow us to animate our own pension and desire to better America's communities. And I wish to thank you again. I'm here tonight

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representing a team of 20. We suit up every day with a purpose of bringing community centers and YMCA's to the hearts of villages and cities across the US and Canada. I am joined this evening

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by one of my colleagues, Danny Forester, from whom we'll hear later in the evening. He is a domain expert in the space of capital funding for community projects and partnerships forged by private and public entities like YMCA's

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townships and municipalities. Professionally, I'm a 35-y year veteran of the YMCA. I've metriculated through various roles across the movement informing the YMCA's architecture, its real estate, its

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capital funding, its financing, and its development. It's a dream job. For in it, I have the fortune of working in the company of community leaders like yourselves and community advocates as

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those gathered in the room this evening. Personally, growing up in the beautiful Poconos of Pennsylvania, my dreams as a kid included hopes of weekends on the Jersey Shore. Fortunately, those dreams came true and

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for many years and from Asbury Park to Cape May, your communities of the Jersey Shore provided vacation and retreat infrastructure for kids, for families, and for seniors. >> [clears throat]

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>> dreams were fulfilled. That said, tonight is about dreaming for Lacy Township, not the visitors that we welcome warmly into our townships on the Jersey Shore, but we aim to be serious,

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responsible community leaders and community advocates. And in place of boardwalks, we're manifesting a very different type of community infrastructure. It's an infrastructure of the community, for the community,

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our residents, our families, and for Lacy Township itself. We're here tonight talking about a missing piece, a void in the heart of this community, and that's a community center, a why.

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Communities have manifested 2500 YMCA's across the US anchoring including in my hometown. As a team, we grow have involve been involved proudly in the creation of 500

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of those 2500 YMCA's including the YMCA in my own hometown. Lacy is due. Lacy is worthy. Lacy, its community leaders, and its families are ready. Lacy's children and youth are

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ready. Lacy's seniors are long overdue. Lacy is ready for this community center. And Lacy is ready for its own YMCA. A place for summer day camp, a place for seniors to be drawn out of isolation, a

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place for teaching our children how to swim, and at a minimum, how to survive in the place of water, a place surrounded by water and yearround. A place for a first job, a place to volunteer,

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a place for teens to thrive, and a place for individuals who have battled cancer to survive. Kids on courts, pickle balls, and shorts. No one alone, but everyone in community.

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The team and I are devoted to support you and yours in pursuit of this community asset, this amenity, this infrastructure. We see it here. We see a Y that is very magnetic, a Y

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that is sustainable financially and one that is in fact missing. As we think and plan and serve in the interest of community tonight, the betterment of this community tonight and as Tuesday or Thursday evenings go,

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this is a very special one and we're grateful to be part of it. Lastly, one final remark. As for those seniors in isolation for whom YMCA's have been answers, my mother is one. She turns 92 years old in

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35 days. her insurance pays for her membership at the YMCA and but for that why she wouldn't be thriving at the uh spry age of 92. I look forward to the work together uh ahead and I look forward to uh the work further work in

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the beautiful community of uh Lacy Township. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] [snorts] >> It's [clears throat] always tough to follow Rod. Uh good evening everyone. My name is Danny Forester. I work with Rod at Grow on our real estate development

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advisory team. Um, and Rod, if you could advance the slides as I talk to you. So, as he was saying, we do a tremendous amount of YMCA projects all over the country. Um, there's a lot of YMCA. There's 2,700 centers if you keep

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clicking. Um, and from doing all of that, we really know what needs to go into a facility and how to rightsize it so it is sustainable in its operations in the long term. Right? What we don't want to do is create a community asset that, you

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know, needs to be bailed out year-over-year by the township. That's not an acceptable solution to to the problems that, you know, we're currently facing and trying to address. Um, working in New Jersey is something that [clears throat] we are no stranger to. Uh, we have a current project in

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planning in Hopewell Valley that's a strong municipal partnership. Uh, that's pictured on the bottom right here. We have a project going up in in West Essex at the moment. Um, as well as several other projects either in completion or or in planning phases throughout the

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state. But what you'll notice is they're largely collected in in the northern half. and we're trying to bring some of these civic infrastructure community assets down south. Uh here's an example that was not on that previous chart of a public private partnership with the YMCA and

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Piscataway. Piscataway built the center and they actually pay the YMCA almost $300,000 a year to operate it. Because operating these facilities with indoor aquatics, with the the kind of venues and uh building systems that are in

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them, it's incredibly expensive. So, it's better to pull someone in who can actually operate it sustainably. And they ran the numbers and realized that they should actually be paying someone to do it. And the Y the Y want a competitive RFP in that scenario. Again, hopewell this is in planning. Uh another

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just strong project that you know is the vast majority of which is going to be funded by the township. And this is an example of a not New Jersey project, but this is Chesterton, Indiana, uh the Doomland familywide. But what this really captures is is what

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these uh community assets can do in terms of serving as a social impact hub. So, it's not just going to be the YMCA in this building. We're going to be pulling in all of the community partners that are a good fit for the sorts of programs and services that we offer and

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who we can support by giving them either space or use within the facility to offer other critical programs and services to the community. So, we're going to get into kind of some analysis that we've done over the past couple of years. you know, the first box

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we have to check is, is there a an opportunity for a sustainable Y in this community? So, we looked at the market. Um, Rod, if you could click one more time, and and what we found is it it certainly is. What we can do given the

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number of projects that we work on is benchmark this community against other similar communities where we've recently open projects. And so what we're we're able [snorts] to do is really hone in on what's the right size of the facility here, what venues need to be included um

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and nail down what can we expect in terms of utilization on the back end. [clears throat] Another component of this was doing an economic impact analysis that was conduct conducted by another third party group creative planning. Um and it

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identified some some major trends uh you know including anticipated growth which has been noted uh but as well as obesity rates, poor mental health uh days uh higher than state and national averages

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u a child care needs gap and severely housing burden residents. [clears throat] What the Y is going to do as one of the many things that we'll do is employ about 135 people in this community. And that translates to $2.4 million in in

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direct anticipated wages and salaries to be paid by the YMCA every year in Lacy. Uh Rod, you can keep going. In addition to the direct spend on on

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our staff, uh we just know that it's going to be an economic driver beyond what is in the facility itself. Uh the spillover traffic, you know, this is a fairly conservative estimate of $200 to $600,000 a year of just people being

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out, whether they're filling their gas tanks, whether they're going shopping, whether they're grabbing a burger, whatever it might be. having them out and active in your community is going to spend money at other businesses. It has about the equivalent economic

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impact of of a grocery store, right? But with it comes a tremendous number of community benefits, which we're about to get into right now in we're going to get into them in a second. Uh, another key component of this is

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doing a community needs process. So, community needs assessment, key leader interviews, and that all culminated in a community leader forum. Is that a couple months ago, >> maybe a month? It was pretty recent. Um, but it identified, you know, some key findings which are that seniors and

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youth are the most underserved community uh groups in this population. Um, affordability is is seen as a major hurdle to being able to use this facility. And a large component of that is, you know, a messaging kind of

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opportunity for us to share with you all tonight about what it will cost for for many of the folks in this room to to use the YMCA. Um, there's a significant lack of indoor aquatics in Lacy. And you know, beyond that, mental

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health, social isolation, youth risk behaviors, the these are interlocking themes that we were just hearing fairly constantly throughout the needs assessment process. Um, and all of that can be solved in in what we describe as a social impact hub, a community hub.

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Um, as you will kind of see more of as we get further into this presentation. So, as a piece of this, the YMCA and and Lacy have been working together to create, and currently it's in draft, but we're I think getting [snorts] close to

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to nailing it down, if not nailing it down completely, a community benefits agreement. So, really, it's I think right now it's 32 [snorts] different community benefits that the YMCA will be bringing to Lacy. Um, this

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is not all of them, but it's a decent list of them. So, a 10% membership discount for all Lacy residents, a 20% membership discount for local businesses with 10 or more participating employees, uh, needs-based financial assistance via

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sliding scale, so scholarships, subsidies, um, the YMCA does everything it possibly can not to turn anyone away due to inability to pay. Okay. Uh, beyond that, I'll get into that in a

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second. Um, but any revenue that is in excess of what the YMCA needs to operate is going to be reinvested back into the community, whether it's through expanded programs, increased financial assistance. We're a nonprofit organization. We're not for-profit. We're not here to view Lacy as a profit

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center that we can extract value out of. If anything, we see it as a great conduit for bringing some value maybe from northern New Jersey to the south. Um, I don't think I need to read through every single one of these, but free lifeguard training and certification for

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a coastal community is critical. Uh, we want the community to control the destiny of this facility, right? So, it's going to have a local advisor made of local community members and as a component of that, the township will

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have an appointed seat on that board. Um, yeah, let's let's keep clicking. Now, for our older adults in the room, uh, as Rod alluded to, free memberships are available to the wise through both

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Renew Active, which is a United Healthcare program, as well as One Pass, which is uh, enabled through participating Medicare and Medicaid programs. Um, in addition to that, we have reduced membership rates for older adults. It's not the same cost as an older adult as

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it is for a family of four to belong to the Y. Uh, again, needs-based financial assistance on a sliding scale. Free senior health and fitness days included in our kind of year round community events.

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uh and you know programming that's really geared towards active older adults, reducing isolation, supporting healthy aging, um programs that are focused on chronic disease prevention, cancer survivorship, as Rod said also, and mental wellness.

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And in addition to that, this YMCA has probably the most robust behavioral health services out of any in the country that we've seen. and that's executed through their counseling and social services branch which Lacy will then also have increased access to. Um

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and in addition to that, you know, uh [clears throat] it it creates great volunteering opportunities which will only be expanded through the YMCA's partnership with CBCJ, which is recently formed but very much formalized at this time.

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for youth and families. It's expanded access to child care, summer camp, after school, youth enrichment, uh scholarship, subsidies, programs, assistance for all of those things, free learn to swim instruction, and continuing um ongoing water safety

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education at a subsidized cost. uh a safe third place is something that we heard very often in the needs assessment work. You know, and beyond that, the YMCA is more often than not the largest firsttime employer in its communities.

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It's a it's a pathway to uh the job market for many of our young people. And this is through internships, jobs, mentorships, job fairs, um all of the above. In addition to that, uh this YMCA

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has very robust youth civic programs including the model UN program uh which every year their model UN program sends kids to prestigious schools. Um in addition to that, uh there is an existing partnership

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right now with the Lacy High School in this YMCA, but it has the high school swim team going up to Tom's River to use the pool. We we can not only just bring that to Lacy, but then there's so many ways that we can expand that existing partnership

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with the school district to to increase the wise impact and improve the quality of life for our students here. This is just a kind of sample of how these different groups, whether it's youth, seniors, families,

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will fit into the various venues that you're about to see presented to you within the building. and and a lot of them can be used at different times at different days by different groups of people. And what that allows for is efficiencies where we're not building redundant facilities, right? We're able

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to house all of these uses in one modern, contemporary, purpose-built community center. Um, and with that, Rod, I think we I'll hand it hand it back to Rod.

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>> And I'll be brief with just a few more slides. Uh we mean to um uh catch your imagination uh and illustrate for you what a contemporary YMCA can look like and feel like. Uh what I what I didn't share uh

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and I wasn't meaning to be misleading. Uh I held back the fact that my parents met at my hometown Y. So I kind of owe my life to the Y, right? But the exact building that my parents met in that was a YMCA, my hometown, didn't look

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anything like this, right? It was brick. It had small windows. You had to go up steps. There was no elevator in the side like you have for your municipal building. Um uh but these are some images of what we have in development across uh uh New Jersey. Uh this is

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actually uh the existing Redbank YMCA uh that is part of the Jersey Shore YMCA system. uh that is uh being invested in by that community uh uh so that we can modernize our offerings uh for for the community. Uh staying coastal in our

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theme and vibe. This happens to be uh one of the centers that we created in Mystic, Connecticut. Many people know of it um for its own tourism draw. Very inexpensive construction, very contextual. Um uh people love this. Why on the second floor you're looking out

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over the bay? Um, speaking of, you know, the conversion of old buildings to to new YMCA's, uh, exactly what is inside or under the roof of a YMCA these days is very very different from when I was a youth. Um, we'll certainly have multi-purpose and meeting rooms. Those

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will be open for community activities. This isn't the only space where the community can gather, although this is lovely room. We mean to have intergenerational spaces where youth out of school or seniors during the day can recreate, have social time together. Uh we um are very good in the Y. We

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remember spirit, mind and body, nutrition, well-being. Uh so we'll be participating and in providing programs and services around uh healthy uh living, nutrition, uh even meal preparation and food uh pantry uh and

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distribution. Um food pantries being parts of YMCA's uh today, right? Uh that's uh that's part of the state of our our existence. For youth venues, uh they come in the form of child watch spaces that while a mom is swimming laps, the kid can be cared for. Uh

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likewise, we have specialty rooms, STEM labs, uh uh media centers, uh not just for kids, but for seniors, too. I'm 62. Um so I'm in that I'm in that group, right? And I still need to figure out how some things like these devices work.

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And maybe I need to learn that at my Y. uh early learning centers. That's our language for child care, quality affordable child care. The YMCA is the largest provider of child care in the nation, right? We do it very well. And by providing quality, affordable child care, we're allowing a our families, our

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our adults, uh pathway to gainful employment. Uh whether salary or wage earners, they need places for their kids to be during the working day. uh wellness venues uh that is uh exercise uh cardiovascular training we intend to

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include a walking jogging track indoor so January 6th right uh we'll be inside walking on the walking jogging track uh and um this picture is not upside down um uh I've never done this uh personally

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I don't think I should um uh but there is a unlimited number of uh group exercise type programs. When I started in the Y, it was uh aerobics and step aerobics and uh now yoga and all these wonderful, beautiful programs. Uh

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aquatics naturally, Danny spoke to this uh is shocking. Uh as we did our own, you know, with you the community research, we were dumbfounded to understand or learn that there wasn't the provision of indoor aquatics year round in Lacy Township. Yet, we're

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surrounded by water here. So um uh we mean to ensure that we have a great aquatic center certainly sustainable and with the number of parties using it that will be uh very true. So um we have the parcel just behind us uh as the placement for the center which is just

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wonderful. Um that means that we're not taking property that is on the tax roles off of the tax roles. It means that we're using our own property and making better use of it which is quite good. Um uh we have gone so far as to prepare

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prepare schematic designs. This is not baked but we feel we owe it to you to get further far enough through the architecture and engineering uh that we can speak confidently about the sustainability and viability of the center. So gymnasium on the left, uh

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aquatics on the right, two pools, one warm water pool, which is exciting for my mom. uh family locker room including uh gender specific locker rooms and then all of the spaces for youth and families and kids. This will be a twostory building and on the second level we'll

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have a variety of uh wellness spaces, our studios for uh yoga and uh uh armchair exercise classes. Again, last time I'll invoke my mother, but that's what she does at her Y. Uh um and we went so far as to um cast some vision

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for what we think a contemporary Y can look like in Lacy Township. This should be something the community is proud of and beautiful uh contextual fitting right in. Um there are, as I mentioned, 2500 W's in the US and no two look alike, right? They're meant to be

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contextual and woven into the fabric of the communities that own them. So again, this is not a, you know, a finished idea. This is conceptual in nature. Um but we think uh the community uh is worthy of uh something as magnetic and

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and beautiful and uh uh centric as uh as this. So are we good? Yeah. Thank you very much for your time and for having us this evening and we'll look forward to any discussion. >> Thank you. Thank you. [applause] >> Thank you, Rod. Thank you, Dan. Um, as a final reminder, we're going to uh open

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up to public comments, but as a final reminder, all this information plus addition add plus additional information is available on the township website. This meeting will be available on the Lacy Township School District website under the WLTS TV21 banner and a decision whether to proceed with the

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YMCA will be decided by a referendum and will be placed on the November election ballot to be voted upon. So, with that, any questions, comments? Steve. Steve or >> this

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>> just us? You could ask us. >> Thank you. Please. >> Just state your name. >> Uh my name is Steve Ball. Uh Lacy Township, Fork River. Um, I represent the Lacy taxpayers who

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oppose the YMCA tax increase. Not that we oppose what the YMC represents. The gentlemen do have legitimate things that might help our our a community, but this isn't a

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community because we're broke. Okay? This is a poor decision because our township is already $32 million in debt and growing larger every year.

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This is a poor decision. It's irresponsible and wrong. We recently opposed the $100 million new municipal building for the same reasons we are opposing the building of the YMCA.

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We as a township are financially broke and millions and millions of dollars in debt. We do not forget. We do not forgive. We do not forget the underhanded way this committee

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had hid financial information from us on the $100 million municipal building. We had to file for a freedom of information act to get a copy of the pre construction agreement nine pages

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and we got the one that wasn't signed by the current mayor at that time but eventually we did get a signed one and that's underhanded. that is underhanded and we have our trust in you guys to be the leaders and [clears throat] to guide

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us and to protect the township taxpayers and you do the exact opposite. this. So, at the finish line of the $100 million municipal complex that didn't get built, we the taxpayers were on the

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hook and we're still paying $330,000 for nothing except the broken promise that the committee made that they would be more transparent upfront with the taxpayers before spending our money on another

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ill-advised giant tax increase by in part claiming the YMCA must be built on this last owned Lacy Township parcel of land or face more section 8

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housing built on it. It's a big lie promoted mostly by our current mayor. So before I continue, we the people that I represent that I'm the spokesperson for,

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we want to know how much money has already been spent on the YMCA. Mr. Mayor, how much money? >> I don't have those details with me tonight. >> Okay. Well, well,

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>> well, what's floating around town? >> What's floating around town is you all already spent $80,000 toward the YMCA and all them beautiful pictures you see,

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we are paying dearly for. [snorts] So, if that's true, we're now over $400,000 of wasted, hard-earned taxpayer money. Stop playing Russian roulette with our

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money. Before I address the Lacy Township estimated tax impact chart along with the hidden cost that the township is not revealing, I must address the following.

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Just today, coincidentally, I opened up my estimated August 2026 [screaming] tax bill. >> And guess what? I wasn't happy. Steve. Steve. >> Steve.

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>> I'm hard of hearing. >> Some of you are. >> You know, when you're ticked off, you do raise your voice. >> And this is ticking me off because I got to change what I want to do to come up here and research it because you're only

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told the nice things about it. You're only told the fluffy nice marshmallow things. You're not being told the hardline facts. So anyways, now my quarterly tax is now $2,400. So

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I'm breaching 10 grand. Uh because now my property tax just went up 800 annually with no reason on the tax bill I got today. and it was an estimated amount and I think most of the estimated

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amounts are a little bit low when the township figures amount. So anyways, I want to address that chart that that uh was on the website or I got emailed to me. First of all, I'd like to

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know who made the chart. >> The tax uh assessor. >> Excuse me. >> The tax assessor. the tax assessor. And who directed the tax assessor to do that chart? >> Probably me or Veronica. >> You or Veronica.

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>> Veronica. Okay. >> So, is it based on up-to-date tax records? >> It's based on as far as 20 It's struck on a 2025 rate. Correct. >> So, it's a year behind. >> Well, we didn't strike. >> And it doesn't include the tax increase

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I got today. >> Correct. >> Okay. So those numbers are not correct on the chart. >> Well, they're not they're not 100% accurate. >> They're less than actually what they're going to be. >> Your taxes go up every year. Correct. >> Yeah. I you you remind me. I I I have

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nightmares about that every once in a while. [snorts] So if this YMCA is built, how many years will us taxpayers be on the hook for? >> We're approximately a 30-year bond, like

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a mortgage. 30-year bond >> like a mortgage. Okay. Well, I I'll probably be dead by the end of that. >> So, in in time, will it increase in taxes over time? >> No. >> Will it get bigger?

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>> It's a mortgage, >> a fixed rate. >> Okay. So, what if the township is reassessed in the future? Will the YMCA the tax burden will not increase? It will stay the same amount for the 30-year period.

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>> The building is projected to be paid off after 30 years. >> So, 30 years. Okay. >> Correct. >> Uh you had you had to come to the microphone. >> Okay.

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>> Good. Okay. As we stand here tonight, what percentage what percentage have you guys come across taxpayers in the town? Because it's been it's all around the town. How many taxpayers

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have you come across that are willing to spend this additional money on the YMCA that you're aware of? What has the township been telling you? any any of you could tell me what's going on. >> I find it men I call I call it men's amensing. Half people say they're with it and half they say they aren't. I work

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with a lot of people in the school system. A lot of them feel like they this is something they would want. >> But then you know there's others that say no. I mean >> I [clears throat] mean it's not a bad idea Peggy Sue. It's the money involved is the problem. >> I understand Steve

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>> there's a lot of struggling people in Lacy Township. a lot of people that we have week to week. >> Steve, that's why we're putting it to a vote though because we want to come out and talk. >> Steve, Steve, I Steve, can I answer? Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> I [clears throat] mean, I agree with Peggy. It's been men's amensa 50/50 and the whole bit. >> Well, >> and and as you know, and many people that know me, I had said right from the get-go that I believe this had to go on the November ballot no matter what.

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Because bottom line, when we're up here, I see some people shaking their heads. This, as Steve brings up some good points, which he always does. This is not our money. It's your money. It's a taxpayers's money. And that's why I've

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always been a firm believer if we're going to move ahead with anything that we think may be an idea, good idea, that the people who's paying the taxes get out there and vote on it. You learn, you listen, you go in, you pull that curtain

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and make the best decision for yourself. And you'll never hear me tell you how to vote, but I'm a firm believer this is your money. You make the decision. And that's why it is going on the November ballot. And who knows which way it's

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going to go. Uh times are fickle. There are people that do want it. There are people that don't want it. and we're listened to all. It's an idea. The facts are being presented and I don't know in this country

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any better way. And we're lucky to be able to have this opportunity to make that decision ourselves. And I said right from the beginning, whatever the voting public decides on this is what I'm going to stand behind.

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But you're gonna make the decision, not just the people in this room, everybody that's watching, everybody that steps in that booth. That's the decision I'm gonna follow. >> Well said, Bob. >> Um, keep >> Okay. Um, I got a little bit more.

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>> You have 9 seconds left. Due to the current financial condition of our township, wouldn't it be much more financially responsible to lease the land to the YMCA and have them pay for their own building?

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>> Anyone close that? >> So much for 5050. So, um, we did we started, uh, we got a group. We we're investigating YMCA's around the country and you know what's going on. So, what was really astonishing to me,

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>> Steve, we're going to have to you're going to have to come back up. You're senior five minutes. >> Okay. Uh, ladies, ladies, >> here. >> Please don't hold the mic. I'm in the

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back. That was a lot. >> Your ear drops. >> There we go. Sorry about that. It picks up very well in the back. You don't have to >> scream into >> Well, you can. Screaming is fine, but you don't put it right up to your This

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distance will be great. Thank you so much. Just just please state your name. >> My name is Linda Capitan. I'm a full-time resident and for >> quiet. I'm going to ask that everybody stay nice and quiet so we can ask hear the speaker that's up here. Everybody has an opportunity to speak, but let's be quiet

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and give them the opportunity. >> Cap Linda Capitan, full-time resident, Frooid River. Um, I appreciate that we're going to have a referendum. I feel like I don't have enough information. So, I'm in the information finding

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stage. There were two areas I wanted to kind of um dig into. One were the assumptions about capital and operational costs, the splitting of liability between lesser and less e. I haven't heard anything about it. Maybe it's been printed. I'd like to

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understand who who's going to carry liabilities because there are costs beyond the capital and the operating. who's going to pay for the, you know, maintenance of shrubbery, 30 years of roof will not last. Those things are information that you need to make a comprehensive decision.

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>> Thank you. >> Um the the second and I I could go on, but I want to give other people um an opportunity. I I got a little more information about what the center is proposing to offer before this night. I was wondering if we

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had looked at any alternatives in current assets that Lacy has that might be underutilized. For example, schools. They're out at the summer. There's evenings. There's weekends. Um I wasn't sure what you were going to provide in in the new YMCA. We

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have a wonderful park system. We've got libraries. We've got the community centers. So, I wondered if the things you're trying to accomplish maybe could be handled by current assets that are already paid for with maybe a lesser cost to to get them up.

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Um, and then I wanted to understand the demographics. A lot of this is based on how many memberships you're going to be able to sell or revenue. Where does that revenue go? Is that [clears throat] to just pay the operational costs? Um then who else will

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pay if this is only capital the 40 million up to 70 with interest? Who's paying for all kinds of things like security and maintenance and and that sort of thing? So I'm in no way ready to make a decision on a referendum because I don't think there's enough

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understandable information out there. >> So So yeah. So, the one final piece that we're still negotiating over is the on the terms and um you know the length of leases, um you know, the maintenance schedule, stuff like that. So, I don't have all that information yet. I'm

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hoping to have that sometime in August. And then that will be posted on the township's website. My question is if for some reason >> uh this Lacy YMCA is not viable, in other words, you can't make your lease payments, what happens to the building

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that just cost the taxpayers $400 million. >> So, so in the event that the the Y wouldn't be able to fulfill their agreement is the township's building and we would have to find another operator for the building. >> That's a lot of money to have an empty building. >> Yeah. So, again, these are these are

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>> there's a whole These are things that were to come out. >> Yeah, this is still stuff on the that we're working on in the term sheet. >> Well, November's not that far. We understand. >> We need some fact sheets. I'd love to see a performer. >> You know, there must be some financial performers out there from you and the

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township. >> We'll take your comments into and >> there is a lot of information on the website if you want to go there and get some information. Thank you. [applause] My name is Ray Cbeck. I live on Fork River, full-time resident. >> There's a lot of good things about the

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YMCA, but there's some things I think we're overlooking a little bit, too. The closest YMCA to here is nine 11 miles away. The second one is 19. We're going to be splitting these benefits up. Not just Lacy's going to be

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it. We're paying for it. And people that come from other towns are going to be enjoying something that we're kind of paying for. >> And far as businesses picking up a lot of business, the Waw Wa is going to get most of it. They're going to get an inexpensive sandwich or a soda coming

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out and they'll buy their gas there because you're not going to tell me between 9 11 and 19 miles these other communities don't have the same opportunities of coals or a shop right in their environment. And the other thing is our tax supposed to go up and

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improve the value of our houses, which means we'll be paying more taxes on top of that. I didn't come down here to turn my house into an ATM machine. I want my house cuz I want to live in it. I want to live here. It's a

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beautiful community and a beautiful town. So that's pretty much it in a nutshell what I have to say because look around here. Most of us people, our income days are over. You know, our investments, that's probably it. The majority. I'm not

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saying everyone. That's it. Thank you for >> We appreciate your comments. >> Thank you, [applause] sir. >> Hello. >> State. >> Um, Alisa Waller, Crestwood Drive. >> Um, Move the microphone to the side, maybe.

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>> Yeah, that should do it. Get it closer to you. There you go. >> Hello. Hello. >> Okay. Um, >> I can't screen. So, um, I was going to start with something else, but after the opening from the Y, I had a few things I wanted to point out. Um, I felt uh like

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it was already happening like uh he wasn't even invited to build yet the YMCA and he used the word, you know, it's going to happen basically. I I And then he also said that this town had a void that we're trying to fill. I I mean, this town is awesome. I never felt

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a void in this town. So, that was a little hard to hear. Um, and he also mentioned there were 2,700 centers in the United States. And I'm thinking maybe the Y is not working, you know, maybe we don't need a YMCA here. Maybe

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we need something else. Um because if you have that many centers, you think you would have transformed America already, let alone Canada. Um so I was thinking of it in that in that way. Um, the other thing I wanted to point out is

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that I was doing a little survey about what we have to offer in this town and uh, I went through and I noticed that anyways I can't find my list, but we have like three at least 55 and over communities in our town. >> Two,

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>> two, both of them have their own pool, their own activity center. So when you tell seniors that, you know, that they can also come to the Y, I mean, what's wrong with where they're at? they're already paying a fee to be where what they have in in their communities. So, I thought of it also thought of it in that

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way. Um, also you did mention this town has a problem that needs fixing, which I think he mentioned as being a void. I don't think that's a problem that needs fixing in this town. Um, it it's almost feels like this is an emergency to you

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guys and I don't feel like our town is any sense of an emergency unless there's something that you know that we don't know. um what financial details are being worked out as you stated that the town would find the construction would fund the construction itself. So we've

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already heard about the finances. So I've been thinking about that. How has the township's own environmental review process determined whether an EIS or environmental impact study is needed or mandatory? >> We didn't get that far yet.

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>> So if you didn't get that far yet, what are you waiting for? the vote in November, >> right? So, I could put on the record to uh push for an environmental review to ensure that there's transparency and

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compliance before it's put out for a vote. >> It's fine. >> Um because I did some research on that and I and I feel like that's something really important. Um how many minutes do I have? >> A minute and 57 seconds. Um, the other thing I guess is the IM the YMCA doesn't

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own federal income tax. So people who donate to them can generally deduct those contributions on their taxes. So revenue that directly advances community health, youth development, etc. that they're uh proposing stays untaxed forever. So, um I'm just curious as to

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why middle class America is always up for grabs when a huge corporation that has plenty of money, uh why we always have to be the ones that pay out. Um and last proposal is um the idea is to build

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a pump track bike playground instead. >> So, I'm going to Can I present this to you? >> Sure. I have a couple of papers here with some pictures and um to save the trees there and the environment I have proposed a pump track uh bike

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playground. Did a little research. I can give you more information. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. [applause] [clears throat] >> Good evening. My name is Dan Kpinsky. I'm a Lacy resident for 16 years. I want to thank the mayor and this opportunity

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to the town. Maybe this is why I don't attend too many meetings because of my anxiety level got up just hearing this and the acrimonious nature of some of this stuff when I first off my background is in public health. I'm a director of a health department for now over 20 years. So, you know, we collect

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data and statistics. We understand the the all the measures of the health of the community and we're constantly analyzing that and we often we get little opportunity to actually um do something that really tackles so many of those things in the community you know

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which is under the YMCA all the services. So just looking at from from an investment standpoint we invest very little in public health. Um, I know the discussion gets kind of thrown in the mix of that the taxes overall, but a lot

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of those components of the taxes are other things. Schools, the county tax, the other taxes that really um are are separate discussion, I realize it's part of your whole taxation, but when you look at what we invest in terms of public health and programs, it's such a

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small fraction of your tax base. I mean, probably some areas you spend more on open space tax than you do on public health and public services. So, I mean, I I look at it from it's an investment in our community and you have to measure

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whether or not you think the dividends of that investment are of value to you and are worth it. I'm of the opinion that they are. I'm a community member and I work in public health, so it's very hard for me to argue against a

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YMCA. Um, so I fully support the YMCA. Um, I understand that, you know, it will cost me something, but I looking at it, the the return on that for children, for the community is is worth it. Um, one thing I was thinking about the senior

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centers, a lot of those folks, yeah, they do have uh club houses, but none of those clubous have some. Even the one in Fezer Run is that the pool's not heated. they they can't really do exercise programs, you know, until the water's warm. They're not indoors. Um, and the

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other thing I wanted to bring up, um, was I was part of the initial, uh, a community leader group that they made the first presentation to, and I got to hear from a lot of the community members at my table. And, you know, the complaints were really around the

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overdevelopment and all the things that we have seen be put in that maybe aren't good for our health, the fast foods and the liquor stores and all these other facilities. and and here was an opportunity to actually choose to put something in that's beneficial to the

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social fabric, the health of the community. So, it was like a breath of fresh air to to have that presented to us. So, I appreciate that. Um, and also I heard comparisons to other communities that have these types of things and these amenities and you know, why does

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this county have this amenity? Well, they chose to make a decision to invest in those things and to have those facilities. And yeah, some of those communities maybe they had the resources and they had the money, but like I said, it's, you know, you have to look at it as an investment and, you know, is it going to return something to the

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community? And I think it's going to be a huge benefit. So, thank you very much for the presentation and I look forward to um casting my vote. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Agreed. [applause] Michael Callerell, 692 Colgate Avenue, Lenoka Harbor.

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I grew up in Old Bridge. Wife's from Seville. Lived in Severville 11 years. I'm here 32 years now. Do YMCA's ever fail? Of course they do. The Sville YMCA

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closed in the early 90s. Know what that building is now? Township owned. They have to pay for everything. So, are we are we going to do that here? We don't know. I don't know if we're broke or not. You know more than me. But I tell you what,

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I'm here 32 years. Kan Avenue looks like a mess. I got potholes. You You need a Jeep to go over. The road's all cracked. 32 years they never touched the road. I like to show you some photographs of the road. I'm not the only one that complained

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about it. Yet nothing gets done. So, we're going to have money to do this. We can't even keep our roads uh in repair. Would you like to see a couple uh >> Sure. So, the roads are on the maintenance schedule um

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>> 32 years. So there we there are we have we approximately 10 road projects are presented to us every year and we pick one or two every year >> that's getting into the road from western >> some of that's going to be addressed

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because western paid um >> no no that's called gate it's called gate it's getting into >> they usually cut in about 10 ft >> when you go into my room you like to slow down a lot hit that big old I question is going to be in the next.

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>> So, so, so I appreciate Yeah, it's all right. I appreciate the photos. Um, those are these are I I understand your point you're making, but if you want if you're I would suggest you send an email or uh to the township regarding road paving. I understand your point is about maintaining the roads. Compare that. But

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I said, >> we have money to do that, but not roads. And I'm not the only one who complained about >> Hey, >> I'm not the only one who complained about the road on my street. Well, other neighbors have too. We We hear nothing. I'm saying I don't want to pay taxes for

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this. I want my roads fixed. Tennis courts are in disrepair. We got other things to fix in this town besides YMCA. Thank you for your comments. Anything else? Regina. Regina,

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[clears throat] just please state your name for the record. All right. You think you can hear me from here? >> Regina Desenza, Sunset Drive, Sunrise Beach. Um, the first thing I have is a question. Is the Y tax exempt? It's a nonprofit. It's tax exempt.

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>> I believe so. >> So, how are you making a ratable here? You're not. Um, are you really afraid of the state taking the property for housing or is this your method of smoke and mirrors? >> You can't predict what the state will require or anything that'll happen in

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the future. Then we can't predict the Y will be profitable either. >> Correct. >> Will that presentation be online on the website? Okay, great. I want to make sure that >> tax bill came today. >> This presentation and this is the second meeting I've attended and it says

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nothing about the tax impact to us, the taxpayers. >> This is a Y this is a YMCA meeting and and the estimated tax impact for the YMCA is on the township website. >> That was very little information. It was totally insufficient. And the wording of the referendum, is the public going to

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be able to see that before you stick it up there in November? >> It has to be adopted by August 28th via a resolution. >> And we would see it before then, I would hope, at the first August meeting. >> I only have one meeting in August. >> Right. So, are you going to have the wording prepared by then?

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>> For the August meeting? Yeah. And then it has to be submitted to the county by August 28th. >> All right. I think that's it for now, but unless this is free, I'm not for it. >> Thank you for your comments, Jim. >> Jim, Lacy Township,

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uh, I have a bunch of questions that I would like to address to you, but also to the members of the YMCA especially. So, if you don't mind, can I >> Yeah, go. Yeah. If any of you can answer, are you familiar with the programs that Newark YMCA offers? 300

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beds for people who are homeless, shelterless. Are you going to do that here? Oh, you say no, but what about when the state comes in tells you you're going to? Are you aware that YMCA uses the name of transitioning back or

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re-entry to society where you house people in the North YMCA with apartments and uh homes? These people are coming out of prison and they haven't paid their debt to society, especially when they kill

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someone. But you have drug addicts, you have burglars, recidivism rates of criminals go up. But you're are you going to house them here like NORC does? >> Housing is not part of the YMCA. >> No beds. They put beds in the YMCA. They

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also have programs with HUD where they buy houses and build houses. That's outside. I'm talking about inside the property itself. How many? 64,000 square feet. >> Uh 62,000. >> 62. >> No. No housing. What are the big rooms?

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You don't have >> no housing. No housing. >> You don't have housing. >> Well, >> at the one meeting they talked about emergency sheltering. People told, "Oh, a storm comes." That's No, that's not YMCA. Emergency sheltering is taking people out of the ghettos, out of the

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streets. >> Excuse me. >> We're talking about storm related events. >> Why would we have a storm shelter in a building full of glass? won't be full of glass. >> Jimmy, that is one of the things that we asked that in the event we needed to

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evacuate people, whether it's a fire or storm, could we utilize the multi-purpose room or something for um a you know a certain period of time. I'm not talking days or anything. >> We have five schools. Five schools have >> no generators. The point is um the term used by the

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YMCA for emergency shelter is taking people who are on the streets homeless and providing them shelters. That's their definition. Go on to the North website and read it. >> And I have. >> Yes. >> And you've seen it? >> Yes.

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>> The other issue you talked about how this benefits the residents of Lacy Township like we're the only one going to use it. Isn't this open to anybody from any town, any community? >> Is that a yes? >> Yeah. People from around the area will

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be able to access the YMCA. The rate the rate for participation will be different. >> And you mentioned that the the 300 and something thousand to maintain the pool that the township has to fund every year. So that's added to the tax

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burden that the taxpayers are going to pay. We didn't that was an example of another community >> and well that's an example of $300 and something thousand dollars that may happen. >> I don't I don't know that's a requirement. >> I nobody knows what requirements are here.

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>> There's been no discussion of a management. You're talking about the management fee for it. >> No discussion of that. >> How can how can you not talk about the structure of management that's going to m run the facility and either make it profitable or not >> profit? No discussion of a management

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fee structure like what the scatterway did. What the scatterway did is they built their center and then they issued a select like competitive RFP where different entities submitted to that. >> What should one How much do one director make a year?

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I can't remember the lady's name. What's she making in a year? >> They're not Yeah, they're the architects. They're not >> Well, I'm just asking. for the architect. >> We're all right, then I'll go for you. How much is she making? I heard up to almost 500,000 a year.

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>> Okay. >> All right. >> That's okay. For a nonprofitable. >> Oh, that's it's it's a private entity. You know, >> it's also a religious entity and there's a separation of church and state because

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what's YMC stands for? Young Men Christian Association. They have a Yeah, they have a board that's I imagine that hires their directors and they set the salary. >> Yeah, but I'm wondering if it's even legal constitutionally to be in business for funding with

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>> Well, you're taking taxpayers [clears throat] money to fund a religious operation. >> So again, any contract that in in the event this passes referendum, the township attorney will review the contract and we'll go forward from there. But the point is I it should be reviewed beforehand to know what the

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constitutional says on it. >> We're not we're going to see if everybody wants if you're going to vote on it. And then >> Jim, one of the one of the things because it's been coming up quite a bit about doing different things and checking into different things. And I know I've learned a lot this year,

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but you got to remember Steve just hit on a very important part and I know I hit on it earlier. We're going to try to get as much information out there before the referendum as much as humanly possible. Every time we go and do a study or

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something else, you know, we're I hate to say this, we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. Everything costs money. You want studies, you want this. Like they said, the building is conceptional. It's conceptional because we're not spending the money yet to go

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that far. So every time we even do research, a lot of the stuff people's been following up on, but to do studies, spend a lot of legal things, we've been going back and forth and having some of some of these talks, but everything we

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do beforehand because you know what? If the public says no in November, why spend the money? How can you put something out to the public in a short period of time that they do not fully understand, haven't seen all the facts, or it's going to come out in drips and drafts? The bottom line is, you know, in

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fire services, we have a saying, where there's smoke, there's fire. In politics, if it stinks. I don't want to say what it is. Uh, but the issue here is, and again, I've been involved in youth programs. the PAO.

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This town refused to allow me to build a center here that was being funded not by the taxpayers but by donations. I was also involved with the Ocean County 4 program for 15 years. So I appreciate Young Dings in Norc

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where I come from similar to the YMC up there. The schools after hours are open for recreational programs. In the summertime, the schools are open for recreational programs. Not in Lacy

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because nobody can touch the golden chariot that the schools are only for the school children. Schools belong to the community and they should be utilized for that community. Uh, so I'm just saying and I don't you may be

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the architects, but I'm just telling you every YMCA that I know of in Nor invite everybody go to their website when they're housing 300 people. You think that street off the streets, you're housing people coming out of

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prison, sex offenders. They may have to register, but they're still sex offenders. that because the question of time a little bit of time >> I won't charge them any time >> anyway I'm just going to cut it short

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the bottom line is that the YMCA it's a great program and in the right area it's very beneficial inner city it's a godsavings to a lot of kids on the streets Lacy Township is not the inner

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city of Norcan or any other place this is a facility that is not needed and then the other thing where we're short on money you're taking 10 acres I thought it was 11 acres but yeah 11 acres I believe right

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>> so what's the what what is the assessed value if the township was to put it on the market to people come in and buy you want to build a town center you need business to come in the town center that contributes that's going to attract more people what about the road

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infrastructure structure. Where's the entrance? Is it on >> Adams? >> Huh? >> Adam Street. >> Adam Street. [laughter] That's a tight squeeze to get in Adam Street. >> No, I mean, I don't think so, but

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>> Well, just look at the traffic on Manchester Avenue. >> Yeah, Jim, you got to if you want to come back up. >> Yeah. >> Well, excuse me. These were question answers and >> I stopped the clock every time somebody asked. >> All right. Well, I asked you five minutes. >> Oh, I asked you. Was that it? I didn't

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>> I'm sorry. I didn't understand what you said. Is that it? >> I said, "Are you charging them?" That's all I said. >> Oh, I didn't understand that. I'm sorry. That went >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Anything state your name for the record. >> Absolutely, sir. Uh Richard Bidnik, Lacy, Citizens for Responsible

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Government. Uh welcome everyone, mayor, township committee members, members of the YMCA, etc. Um, I have to say this. I'm a little bit disappointed that we're having this meeting tonight because you don't have answers to all the questions. When we had the April meeting that I

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attended, we were similarly in the same situation. I think it would have been more appropriate if you had waited till somewhere closer in August when you were getting close to the time when you were going to put it on a vote for going on the ballot where you had more information so the people who did come

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here could actually get answers to all of their questions and all of those questions. need to be answered before November. We need to have absolutely every piece of information that people are asking for available on the website and that everybody has aspects so their

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questions are all answered. And I think that this again shows that we're really not prepared for this because we're jumping the gun. And I think that this is very obvious. This is my personal opinion. Um, also I wanted to mention this. This was brought up a couple of times about the nonsense with the fear

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of section 8 housing on that 11 acres. >> Now, Mr. Mayor, I have a solution to that problem. >> We could sell that land to the Ocean County Land Trust and we would never have to worry about it ever being developed again. So, if that's a concern, I think that that is something

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we really need to look into. Okay. So the other other things too, this is an issue because I come to these meetings a lot and I speak um first of all we're we don't have a great track record of maintaining our current facilities. This building in particular up to maybe

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two or three years ago, black marks all over the ceilings, ceiling panels coming down, air conditioning systems not working, we had windows that need to be replaced. These are just a fact. You have not maintained the facilities that you are responsible for. And then we've

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got community hall, the old community hall. You let that go to hell. Okay. Uh we have the Warden House, another historic piece of property that you let go to hell. We have Deer Head Lake, a piece of property that was redone after I have moved here and it's now

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unswimable. I mean, there's a sol very solution, easy solution to even fixing that lake. Cut off the um the public, you know, where the sewers are going into the lake. Put that into the sewer system. clean out the lake and I'm sorry some people might not like when I'm gonna say this but the geese that is not

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their natural habitat that lake and they've made it unswimable for us and then you can move your whibbit which I despise on my lake over to Deer Head Lake which would has better parking spaces I mean it's just a logical thing to do and it will not cost us $96

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million folks $3.2 2 million a year of new taxation must be generated from the taxpayers of Lacy to support this new facility. I can tell you this personally. I think everybody should vote for their own self-interest

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on this topic. Not that it's uh for the greater good. I'm not concerned about the greater good. You need to think about your greater good, your tax dollars, what's coming out of your pocket, whether you're actually going to use this facility. And the other thing too that nobody's talking about is the

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damage, the economic damage that will be done to our existing businesses that the Y will compete with, daycare centers, mental health centers, yoga studios, gyms, etc. These are concerns we need to maintain and support our current

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industries that we have in our community. Number one, support. Right, everybody? We absolutely agree with that. So I mean we need to really think about all these things and also as I said we have to take care of our own and

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our own people and yes there may be some things that the town hasn't been doing so excellently and could explore into but do we really have to build a building for the Y my feeling about the Y is this more power to you folks you

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want to come to Lacy you generate all the money to build that building and then You sustain that with your funds that you are able to generate from whatever dollars people will support you and we will welcome you with open arms. But until you figure out a way that

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we're not paying for this, I'm sorry, my group and a lot of people in this town will not support it. Thank you very much. Thank your comments. [applause] All right. Just state your name for the record. >> Yeah.

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>> Hi, my name is Jeremy Grunnin. Um, I am not uh a resident here in Lacy Township, but I have been a resident of Ocean County for the better part of my life. We do majority of our work in Mammoth and Ocean County, as some of you may know. In fact, um, I'm proud to say that

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our family invests over $7 million a year in the two counties. We don't get anything back for that. There's no quid proquo. I'm not running for office. Um, I would also tell you I'm the vice chair of the board of the YMCA, the Jersey Shore, and I'm Jewish. So, uh, [clears throat]

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so I don't know that the C necessarily means that much anymore. Um, I just want to give you a little bit of the current state. Uh, and some of this is hard realities. 40% of Lacy Township is what's considered Alice. Um, some of you probably don't know what Alice is, but

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that's a United Way measurement of asset limited, income constrained employed. That is folks who are living really below the poverty rate in New Jersey. um 40% of Lacy Township. That's not like that's not like only a Lacy Township thing. That's not far off of what Tom's

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River is and not far off of what the rest of Ocean County is. But there is need in this county. In 3 weeks, fulfill the food bank of Mammoth and Ocean County is holding a convening um at the mainland uh not too far from here of southern Ocean County folks who support

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food insecurity. There will be 100 partners at that meeting. The reason that meeting is happening is because there is a food desert in southern Ocean County. There are not enough nonprofit support systems for our veterans, for

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our elderly, for our kids, for the folks that need the services that they so much that they so much deserve in the richest country in the world. The YMCA does not profit from the work that the YMCA is trying to do. This is your community

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center. The YMCA is the operator. I couldn't care less quite honestly if it was called the YMCA or Peter's building [laughter] or or Veronica's building. It doesn't matter. It's about how we help the folks in this community and they deserve it. And I want to tell you

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something else. When you're part of a YMCA network that spans from here up to Old Bridge and includes Redbank and other parts of Mammoth County, when the network raises money, that money comes down to Lacy Township, right? It comes south. I'm going to say this and I'm not

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hope I don't get upset people, but there is more money to be raised in Mammoth County than there is in Ocean County. I'm just going to say that, right? And what happens in a network like this is often times the rich support those that are less rich. That's just the way it

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works. This is a net win for Lacy Township. And I'm not here on a Thursday night just because I'm killing time before the USA plays their World Cup game. I'm here because frankly I care about the folks in Mammoth and Ocean County where I've grown up and and my family's been very blessed to live all our lives.

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Uh this is this is not a self-s serving thing. This is about the folks in this room. And sure, you know what? I can tell you one other thing. Uh I used to run 40 health clubs for New York Sports Club. All right, I know I look like the picture of physical fitness. You're all thinking that's ex exactly [laughter]

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some of the people who work for me used to say I look like the before picture which is okay but what I'll tell you is when there was a Y next to a New York sports club we didn't say that's a competitor we said that's fantastic that's somewhere for our someone to watch our kids while we go work out we

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are partners in community we are not competitors thank you >> thank you [applause] for I just wanted to say one thing if I could. I know this is the floor time for the people. Um but I will tell you on a a personal and a professional note, you

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know that I am in the uh full-time employee of public health. Um I'd invite you to first off, I'm going to be in lock step with Bob. What the people decide is how I'm going to vote. But I will tell you, do your please do yourself due diligence and do due

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justice. Uh, Google the Grunnin Foundation. I know Jeremy Grunnin. All right. I know the amount of altruism and the amount of zeros and millions that this guy tire doesn't need to do it. Could be on a beach that he's done for education, his family, for breast

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cancer, um, for research. Um, Google it. You can Google it now. You can Google it later. There's a guy that's here and he's on the board. I I trust what's being said tonight from this entity because I know him. Uh I know him from the work he's done at just different

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venues for health all around. Um so I invite you. I ne like Deputy Mayor Laray says, I will never insult you. I'm here because of you. I'll never tell you what to think, how to vote. Do your research on on the Grunnin Foundation and Mr.

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running and I will tell you I think you'll feel a little bit more comfortable about it and I'm here to support you. I work for you. Thank you for the time. Mayor, >> um anything else from the >> just you got you got to state your name. >> Yeah, my name is Alice Sheret. I've

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lived in here over 30 years. Um why do we have to pay taxes that they should be paying? I don't understand that. Why would our increase in taxes go up? >> We would be building the building. They would be operating the building. >> That's why. >> Mhm. >> That's crazy. It's our building. >> That's nuts.

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>> You'd be giving an opportunity to vote on it in November. >> Well, obviously I'm not. [clears throat] >> Just state your name for the record. >> Uh Patrick Acre, Lacy resident. Um earlier this gentleman said that this

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town tapped him to build it. I just want to know who asked you guys to ask them to build the YMCA. The why we were we were at the time we were uh talking about building a town hall and a police station and an indoor rec center and

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then the Y approached us. >> So the Y so that was misspoken. They approached us. >> Yes. >> Mhm. Yes. >> Okay. That was number one. What percentage of YMCA's fund their full operational costs based on the revenue that they generate?

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>> You ask the question. What percentage of YMCA's are self-sufficient based on the revenue that they generate? >> 95%. >> 95%. Okay, that's not bad. We keep comparing the YMCA to businesses in this

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town, McDonald's, liquor stores, etc. And you guys put up the ShopRite as an example. The difference between you guys and all these businesses is they pay for themselves. We didn't pay to build any of them. And yes, they create jobs,

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lowpaying jobs, just like the ones that you guys are proposing. Why are we not trying to build things that families can support themselves off the wages that they provide? We're building more things that provide starter jobs, you know, it's just

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>> Well, so again, they um brought up all the economic benefits of the job creation and the amount of uh economic benefit to the township and I all I can say is you'll be given a chance to vote on it November. >> Right. Also, you guys held this thing like a month ago with the social

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whatever with the leaders of this town, whatever. I'd like to know how those people were picked because when you drive through this town, this is a bluecollar town comprised of contractors, construction workers. You guys as teachers, cops, lazy chatter admins,

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people that are mostly paid by taxes don't care if taxes go up because that's their salaries. That's they don't care that they're they negotiate a raise into their next contracts. So it was a community So it was a cumulative effort from all of us and uh staff to come up

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with a list of people that um were community leaders that were >> you cherrypicked people that would say yes to this. That's what it feels like. >> Survey went out. >> No, no, no. I'm talking about the one that you guys published the results of on there was not all yes people there. >> Okay.

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>> It was a people in the room could tell you that. I also I read the percentages of the people that were at that meeting. You asked 12% of people that don't even live in this town. Why did people that don't live in this town have a say in anything that goes on here? >> Well, they don't have a say. Let's just just so you understand. They don't have

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a say. We invited them so they can talk about it with other people. That was the point of having them there. And and we have Mr. Bidnik, Regina Denza. They were there. the these are people that live in this town [clears throat] and are actively coming to our meetings and

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information. So, we felt if they were there, they would take the information and go from there. That was the point of having most of the people there. And there were so many people we asked to come that said no, didn't you know, it was it we couldn't even get a lot of people to come to be honest with you.

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>> Okay, that's fair. It just was a little upsetting to see 12% people from out of town. They're not they don't have any skin in this game, >> but they do because they could utilize the facility if they want to. Some of them, >> but they're not paying for it. But they're not paying for it. They're not paying for the building of it. >> No. No. But some of them also based on

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their their jobs and their employment and what they do in the counties and stuff like that have knowledge about where there's insecurities in our community and the communities that are surrounding it. >> Right. >> Okay. >> It's pure information. >> And I know it's one thing we're still

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working on some of the numbers and stuff like this. One thing that's very very important and it's been brought up multiple times by all of us and the public is if Lacy does this a couple things

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will be in place. Lacy residents number one get discounted rates. That's number [snorts] one. Lacy residents and the school system also gets priority in all programs and usage. So that's one

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thing that we're making sure is in these agreements. And like I said, it may make no difference in how people vote, but you bring up a good point with the 12% and we're very cognitive of the point that

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if this is lacy, we want if it does go through and the residents want it that there's an extra benefit in that in there for them having to also pay the taxes. Okay. I mean, I felt like 10% was a little low. That's what it was put up

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there. 10%, you know, when I'll be honest with you $300. You know, >> I agree. I agree with you, too. >> But this is some of the stuff that >> the the >> still being fine tuned. >> Yeah. Fine-tuned. I mean it just uh

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>> you know >> yeah the thing is is we've been trying to get as much stuff out as possible. I've only been on this committee a year and a half and I've and in that year and a half, especially with what the mayor's been

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putting on the caucus, more and more information, more than I've seen in years, has been coming out and been sent out to the public, whether they're reading it, whether they go to YouTube and watch the show, watch the TV, whether they're going online and reading

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about all this stuff in the year and a half because that was the one thing I wanted to be committed to is that there's more and more transparency. So much information and all the answers aren't answers yet. We don't have all the answers yet. We're trying to get them all and put them together so that

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everybody's got them before that time comes to vote on it. It's very important to us. But even with the meet the group meeting we had uh month or two months ago you know we tried to get everybody people

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that we we knew were naysayers people were positive blue collar we had some bluecollar employers there okay so they're paying these I'm a blueco collar worker my whole life and that's very important to me so we're trying to give

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as much information as possible And this is only the second meeting in a year and a half in this room that I've seen more than maybe 20 people with all the stuff that goes on in the town. It's a shame because there's 30,000 people in the town. So,

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it's it's almost a shame that the more information we put out, the less people look at. So, we're trying. We're trying. And [clears throat] like I say, hopefully everybody's questions, the best it could be, which I hope by the uh

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time that summer comes when they when we got to put the question together, is out there and answered because they're very important to all of us. You can't compare this which I know I was on that side of this dis

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when the uh municipal building was proposed and that's why I was a big advocate of the transparency in how this committee does things and you know what >> and we're doing that we're trying to do that all the answers you got to remember

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the one thing that does frustrate me a little bit up here is I constantly get nailed about not giving an answer. There's a difference between not giving an answer and giving the answer somebody wants.

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And you know what? I get a lot of questions I asked. I don't get the qu answer I want, but I do get an answer. So, I'm not addressing this just to you. But it's it's just like, you know, everybody that's all I hear. I got nailed to it where I worked in the morning this morning.

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you're not giving us no answers. But the person was repeating the answers to me and I'm like, you're getting them. It's just they're not always what we want. But thank you. >> Well, I appreciate that answer. Um, one

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thing you just addressed was like you had bluecollar employers there. That's not the guys at the bottom. That's not the guys swinging the hammers. That's not the guys who have to put in the extra hours to cover these. >> That's the guys that are making the big bucks who are hiring other people. the few people that were there, which I know because if I told you, I'm not going to

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reveal who was there. I >> understand that. >> But these are people that even their families are doing the manual labor and doing stuff like this. And there was a lot of thought put into it because

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we we want everybody's opinion. And that's why I've always been so strong. Pete just really we want it on the ballot because we want everybody to have a stake in this. We want everybody to have a stake in it. It's very very important to all of us. >> All right. >> To all of us.

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>> All right. Well, thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Thank you. Uh >> another question. >> Wait, he's nobody else. >> You spoke already. >> Dr. Rosolei, Sunrise Beach. Uh, I don't

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understand why we're having discussion about a a YMCA this far south when our county seat is Thomas River. And it would seem to me to make more sense with the county seat and

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the county more involved that the services that they want to offer would make more sense at the county seat rather than at this location this far south. it it has you're closer to the governing body for the whole county and

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not just one township out of many. Okay, that's number one. Nonprofit. These guys make money. They're not volunteers. When you get nonprofit, you don't make money. They make money. How could you say, you know, so they're getting paid

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big money. Keep that in mind. So when they say nonprofit, to me that's a ploy. >> [snorts] >> seniors. Seniors in this town for free and I was not allowed at a meeting a couple of times. Go to the municipal

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alliance and services are provided and they gather and they communicate with each other and they talk to one another. And you're going to provide a space that's already being done for no cost. How much you going to charge them? You're going to charge them for something that's

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provided already at no cost. That doesn't make sense to me. Sorry, but it just doesn't. Not that I'm against the YMCA. I like the YMCA. When I was hiring people out of in Carterette, I hired a lot of men

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who were in the halfway house at a YMCA in New York. Lots of convicts that were looking to get back into society out of the YMCA. and I gave them jobs and they became

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teamsters and they ended up making a lot of money in the food distribution business because I gave them a chance. But they were housed at the YMCA as a halfway facility and that's facts.

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Now, membership costs. Oh, we're going to get a discount. Wait a minute. We're paying but we're going to get a discount. Okay. Again, the things don't make sense. Have we ever had a problem with trained lifeguards

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at any of our lakes for recreation? >> Yeah, we have very difficult time getting lifeguards. >> Hard time. So, if somebody wanted to, they could go and get certified >> if they wanted to be a lifeguard. Not that we needed to have a YMCA here to

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certify lifeguards. We need people who want to be lifeguards, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we don't need to build a building to certify lifeguards. If they want to be lifeguards, they can go and get certified and then if we had the job, we we'll hire them because we have

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a bay to swim in. We have canals to swim in. We have lagoons to swim in. We have lakes to swim. We got a lot of things here. Do we really need a pool? And if the swimming team needs a pool, like all the sports are going to happen

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at the town at the township school districts, it's going to be paytoplay anyway. That's what's going to happen. You want your kid to be in a sport, it's going to end up as paytoplay. 66% of the taxes go to that board of education. And if they

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can't provide sports, they're going to charge pay to play. So maybe you don't have a swim team in Lacy or if the parents want it, they got to pay. We don't need to build it here as a convenience. That's basically the way I look at it.

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It's a convenience. Senior citizens, you know, a lot of senior citizens talk about, well, we're going to have this room and we're going to have that room or we're going to have this event and that that place and all. What about getting them there? or is the YMCA going

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to provide, you know, transportation services to bring these people there who are cooped up? Maybe they don't want to go. You know, it's just a lot of things that are they're providing are already provided daycare. You're going to put a

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lot of people out of work. You got lacy people taking care of lacy kids in Lacy. Okay. I don't know where the other kids are coming from that are gonna go because [snorts] it's not limited to just Lacy. That's enough. [snorts]

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>> Thank you for your comments. >> All right. Come on. >> Are there other people besides those that spoke that would like to speak? >> Let's handle it that way. >> I was up before. >> All right. >> All right. One minute. We're getting Pat first.

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>> He already spoke. You >> see the shirt? >> Yes, he already spoke. Let Pat should go cuz Pat hasn't had a chance to speak yet. >> That's your That's your people. [laughter] >> Just quiet. Everybody please just state your name for the record.

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>> Hi, Pat Doyle. Uh, Forket River Beach. Um, hi. I I love the Y. When I lived in Manhattan, I went to the 92nd Street Y all the time. Fabulous place. Uh, sports, culture, you name it. Um, I'm not sure where I

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stand on the Y itself, being in Lacy Township for a number of reasons, but I know I have great concern, as do every single person I've talked to, about us owning that building and being a landlord. And I speak from experience,

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years of experience in commercial transactions, particularly landlord liability, commercial liability. That is my big concern, one of my big concerns with this project. And that is what's going to

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happen when the lawsuits begin. They will begin. There is nothing that can be done to contract away all your indemnity. you can sign. And as somebody said here very astutely, we need all the proforma documents

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before we can vote. We want to see the contracts. They don't have to be executed. We want to see them. We want to see what you're thinking of. I personally want to read your indemnification agreements. I want to read your insurance contracts. You will

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never escape all liability. No matter how you write it, how you read it. You are going to have to pay your own insurance premium. I do not believe the joint insurance facility will pay for your liability as a landlord. Or maybe >> they will.

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>> They'll cover the building because we own the building. >> They will. >> Yes, they will. >> Okay. So when there is a lawsuit that they will provide the insurance that will respond to it >> to up to the to the limits or the responsibilities that we would have in it. Yes.

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>> Okay. Would it increase your risk that you would need higher premium, higher rate? >> Why would also be carrying their own insurance as well? >> I'm not talking about that. >> No, it's not going to it's added on as an asset and >> that will increase your premium. >> No, not when in the joint insurance

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fund. most likely would would not, but you'd have to look at it at the [clears throat] time when when it is is assessed, but they'll cover they'll cover it if it's a a function of the municipality. >> They will have their own insurance for sure. Have you ever been involved in lawsuits

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where hold on where the insurance policy of the tenant, of the vendor, whoever it is you're dealing with, and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, is carrying insurance, but maybe at default. So, the insurance isn't there to respond to the lawsuit

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>> or the insurance policy language does not respond to the exact loss or claim that's filed against you. Nasty, nasty cases that go back and forth, failure to procure, you name it. They cost a lot of

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money. I am not against the Y itself per se as I began, but I am very concerned as your constituent, your taxpayer, as are every single person I have spoken to. And yes, a lot of them are seasonal

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residents, which is why they're not here tonight, but who says if anything, not now. We are under huge financial burden as taxpayers. This is not the financial time for us to be doing this. But before we vote, I think there should be a

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second meeting. We need answers to a lot of these questions and we need proforma agreements to review. There are many of us here watching on TV here tonight that come from professional backgrounds. I mean, we're not a bunch of senior citizens that's so like out of it and

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crippled that we've never been out there before and known anything or done anything. We have good business corporate experience, many of us. We need these answers answered. [snorts] As [clears throat] of right now, I for one am completely against us acting as a

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landlord. And I know where you're coming from. You're thinking it's going to bring more revenue in. So, it's a net gain. I understand that. I have real concerns that that's not going to happen. As well as what will happen if the Y defaults in some way, bankruptcy,

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they're not making enough money, they withdraw. We are left with a 64,000 square foot building with two pools. >> Who are we gonna rent that to? Have you thought about that? >> It's It's part of negotiation. So, we're

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we we're still doing that right now. >> Mayor, if I could. >> And I'm not I'm not going after you on this. I understand why you're doing this. >> Yeah. Quiet. Quiet. >> I'll finish with I understand why you're doing this. I don't believe that we meaning the collective we here have the

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scope and the experience or the finances to deal with this as a commercial transaction. The Y wants to come here build your own building >> and that's the end of that >> Pat one second if I could >> go ahead

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>> if I could. You touched on something. I'm I like I said I have trust in the board of the Y. I I do like their services. I think they'd be a value ad for the town and I will vote the way the people want. The one thing that I heard tonight that gives me cause for pause

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and maybe there's a hand well there's the chief of police back there, a handful of other retired law enforcement uh and our public health coordinator from Long Beach Island. When you start talking about a shelter, I worked through four hurricanes in at Florida Health, Division of Business and

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Professional Regulation to be precise and Sandy up here. Most people have no idea when you're talking about mental health meds, talking about Megan's list, people you're talking about needing um

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what is it? insulin all t we had crowning females that were going to give birth think long and hard because the GIF will care think long and hard before I don't think that any building we have our name on should be an official shelter because

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then how does it close we got masterardi we got our sheriff they can go somewhere else and you have to think you need physicians nurses there's no shortage of what you need to actually run a shelter for infirmed people. There's there's

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more than you can possibly imagine. I don't want to see us liable for that. >> Mayor, it's not going to be a shelter >> is a huge part of it that people haven't even completely thought through. And you can't because those lawsuits will come at you from nowhere. Arguments that you've never heard of before. But guess

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what? The old adage is once you've been sued, you've already lost because you've got to now pay to bring yourself to court. And that's why responsible attorneys try everything they can to keep their clients out of court. And I think this transaction, as it stands

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now, is going to have us there way more than we want. >> No offense to the Y. I just don't like the way it's being structured. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Wait a minute, Steve. >> People that haven't come up yet. You can have the rest of my time.

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>> Where's the Englishman? >> What's that? >> Where's the >> state your name for the record? >> Yeah. Tom Styler. 31 years fulltime fork at River. Boy, I hate speaking in front of people. >> Engles. >> I moved down here full-time 31 years ago. I bought a bungalow. >> Before you buy a house or build your own

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house, what do you need to know? Fall costs. Before you even start a project, don't you? >> You don't have those numbers. That's what bothers me the most. You don't know what it's going to cost in the long run. What is it going to cost me in taxes? What is it? There's so much that you're not aware of. You are aware. I'm going

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to rephrase that. You are aware of what it costs. But you're not following through before you come to us and say, "I'm going to build a wide." It doesn't benefit me. I'll swim in the ocean. I'll swim in the B. I really don't care. We have beautiful lakes if you fix them. We have basketball courts. We have the some

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of the greatest parks. Okay. The schools, there's indoor volleyball. There's basketball for seniors and and whatever else. fix what we have before you put another burden of let me say my tax rate will probably be another $500 $600 a year a year maybe that doesn't sound like much but when you're on a

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limited income it is and I'm not the only one here on a limited income I retired a couple years ago thank god I made it most people don't make it after they retire let me know what it costs you to build all this pay for all this insure it building maintenance I did

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that for 23 years I know what it costs to run I worked for PSEG it's expensive our roofs on on the schools, the solar panels which were a waste and I said that years ago because they don't last 20 years, do they? What does it cost before you give this referendum?

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Everybody needs to know exactly what it's going to cost us. What's the interest over 30 years? >> So, we're estim So, the the payment is estimated at $3.2 million. >> You know what you can do with $3.2 $2

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million in this town for our lakes and our parks which are fantastic already. Fix them. Put donate that money to get the roofs on my schools. Get get the air conditioning running. Things that have been let go. Building maintenance. You hire the wrong people to run to work at the schools apparently because they

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can't keep up the maintenance. >> I took care of 43 locations by myself. No problem. I worked my ass off. I'm asking you guys to do your job. work your asses off and give us the truth and the numbers before you start, before you

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approach us, before you talk to them. You already have to have an idea what this is going to cost total. But again, my tax are going to go up a minimum of $400 a year. Doesn't sound like much to you, but that's a couple dinners I can go out with my wife. And I'm sure everybody else would like to do that, too. But I'm not paying dinners.

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>> All right, I'm done. Thank you. >> Appreciate your comments. Appreciate your comments. [applause] Appreciate your comments. >> I think so. Clear. >> I don't think there's anybody. >> Steve got the timer for me. >> I timed other people up here more than

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five minutes. >> Just state your name. >> Again, I'm Steve Warl, Lacy Township. I'm the spokesperson for the taxpayers who do not want the YMCA because of the financial burden. It has nothing to do

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with the YMCA and what it brings to the township. It's been said in here how it's going to affect other build other businesses including our recreation department. The word around town there's going to be layoffs there. That's what

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I'm hearing. So anyways, when I when I had to go sit back down, I was talking about the YMCA paying for their own building. And when that's not happening, I start looking into nonprofits as how topheavy they are

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to want us to do it. Well, their national pre national CEO, Susan McCormack, you know her? >> I do not work for the national YMCA. >> She's the the head of the YMCA, right? >> She is the >> You know of her. You don't have to say

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you know her. Okay. You know of her. She makes up to $855,000 a year >> for a nonprofit >> for a nonprofit. It also our research reveals local CEOs and regional overseers make up to

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$300,000 a year. What's your title? Your title. >> What's your title? >> I'm the CEO of my own company. >> He's the architect. He's not doesn't work for the YMCA. >> They don't work for the Y, Steve. >> They don't work for the Y. Okay. I I thought you

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>> Okay. So, not only do they make these high uh salaries, that's what they get benefits and pensions. And then I researched the everyday employees and their salaries and they actually get a very attractive pension. They get 12%

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per month of their monthly salary and they don't have to contribute anything matching. I worked for the federal government for 41 years. They gave me 3% and I had to match it or I would only get 2% at the

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end and I had to put all the rest of the money in. So, they're 9% above federal government unless it changed since I retired. How does the YMCA afford such expenses on top of other expenses? Insurance,

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maintenance, and even upkeep. He said not to take that out. >> Look, >> this is how they afford it. By getting townships like Lacy Township to foot the bills. These salaries and pensions enjoyed by

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YMCA employees and management is why we're compelled to investigate current financial status of other YMCA buildings around the country. The answers we found were astonishing. Many are in poor financial shape. Some

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are filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Could that happened to us? Our research reveals the YMCA comes with significant operational and hidden costs like massive insurance premiums, especially

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with a with uh uh swimming pools included, high cost of use programming, rigorous safety certifications, and extensive upkeep of a massive multiuse commercial building. And who's in charge

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of the maintenance of that building? Uh >> the landlord. >> No, the landlord depends on the landlord. No, not everything. >> The landlord isn't >> depends on what it is. >> Okay. >> Give me an example of what would be paid for and what wouldn't be paid for.

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>> So something like well there be a a service agreement with say the air conditioning unit. That would be the our responsibility. >> The landlord. >> Correct. >> Okay. What wouldn't be the landlord's responsibility? pretty much everything internal to the to the building.

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>> Give me an example. >> A door doesn't work. I don't know. I don't what a door doesn't work. I don't know what dooring pest control. >> Okay. The YMCA wants us to own the building. Our research further reveals the hidden

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payroll cost of maintaining certified staff because they got to be certified. You just can't put anyone in these positions over children, seniors, swimming lessons. They have to have certain certifications that are costly. >> Well, that's not our responsibility.

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>> Well, eventually it does trickle down. [snorts] Also, local YMCA's must pay regional and national networks. They're saying we're going to get money back. This research says we're going to

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have to pay and help pay them big-time salaries and help to pay the national salaries. They take money from us. The internet research also claims the biggest weakness is due to lack of financial and technical resources. Now,

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there are different ways to get money donated. How much money, Mr. Mayor, have the committee or the township investigated that they could get from the federal government, from rich people in town? That's what they rely upon,

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too. Donations. How much money, Mayor Canis, has your you and your committee done to see how much donated money we can get? >> So, we're still working on those on stuff like that. >> So, it's zero right now.

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>> Yeah. Zero right now. Zero. >> We're putting the carpet before the horse before we make applications for grants because we don't even know if this is something that we're going to need. So to spend the money and the and the and and the time of employees or professional firms to file grant applications, it's it's the carpet for

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the worst. You can go for congressional district spending money to possibly get some federal money out of Congress in the Smith's office to do those things. The YMCA gets it all the time. Lacy Tajuk was fortunate to get it. And we can maybe do a joint application if this is going to move forward and look for those fundings. And you said the the

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rich people as well. Mayor, mayor, if I >> let me let me just say this. If you do the research on the YMCA, you know that the YMCA has deep >> has what? >> Has deep philanthropic ties to very rich

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people throughout the country. >> So, we're not I'm not worried about that at all. Not one bit. I will tell you a personal example. The YMCA that I used to go to in Bucks County, Pennsylvania when I was a kid. Okay. Caught on fire.

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All right. Burnt to the ground. And two gentlemen stepped up and paid for it out of their own. >> Two local guys. >> Two local guys. No, I'm sorry. One was the one was the I guess you got to call him the president of US Steel in

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Bristol, Pennsylvania. And they he paid for it. And another one was a high executive in Roman Hos, a plant there. Okay. So the the >> I think the probability of that happening is very slight. >> No, not at all. Not. You would be surprised.

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>> Okay. >> You would be surprised. >> I I am surprised. >> You would be surprised. How many >> I'm surprised that no one on the committee looked to see about getting money from the so-called rich people? >> How many charities are out there that

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that help the YMCA? You saw one, the guy, the one out in Indiana in the on the screen. these. It's amazing if you understand how the Y works and what it does. The people will pay or donate, not pay, they will donate. No question about it.

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>> But right now, it's zero. >> All right, Steve, you you burned up. >> And there's also a looming controversy about the YMCA that probably no one wants to talk about. There's been a series of nationwide case class action lawsuits like the lady was talking

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about, criminal convictions and civil settlements stemming from a history of child sexual abuse by YMCA counselors and program employees across various regional chapters. Some of these YMCA's

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>> Steve you >> are Camp Seymour in Gig Harbor, Washington, North Carolina. They got convictions. They're investigating ones in Silicon Valley, California. And there's also a lot of other ones

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that are struggling bankrupt, closed, Steve. >> And I got a list of it for you. >> You went through another five minutes. You have to take a seat again. I'm the only one. No one else went over five minutes. >> Did you speak? He didn't get to speak

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yet. He didn't get to speak yet. [applause] >> Watch the wires for a second. >> Yeah. Don't fall, guys. >> State your name for the record. >> Sure. Jeff Joiner, Lacy, resident, 10 years. Um, you guys all do great work. I

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mean, the YMCA, I mean, it's been around forever and every there's a bad apple everywhere. Like to thank you, all you guys. This is a volunteer job almost, right? [laughter] >> Pretty much. >> You got to listen to all of us gripe. But I do I have concerns. I came here

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from uh South Brunswick, which is a town that's more than twice as big as Lacy, and the YMCA went belly up and we got stuck with it. So, that's a concern of mine. And you guys had a lot of nice programs, a lot of nice marketing tunes,

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but what are they? I don't know what they are. I don't know. We got this for seniors. We got mental health. So, I think you need to come back at us and give us some specifics on what it is that you provide. Um, as [snorts] far as

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the businesses in town, I mean, I'm a member of retro. I mean, am I going to get my 10% off and get save three bucks and go to the Y retro is going to go away? I mean, that's a concern for me as a citizen because they are paying taxes,

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you know, they are paying ratables. So, in a nutshell, everybody else has already said everything else. I mean, we need more numbers, we need financials, etc. But that's just my concerns. >> Appreciate your comments. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, Dan. [applause] Danny,

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>> state your name. >> Uh Daniel Corpinsky. Uh Lacy resident. Um so I just wanted to when I was thinking about this, this is not comparable um exactly, but I work in an area. I I'm a Lacy resident. I grew up in Manchester. >> Quiet. >> I've been, you know, here my whole life.

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So, but I I do work in Long Beach Island and one of the one of the community centers down there, which people probably may know the name is St. Francis. That's kind of like a YMCA. Obviously, it's affiliated with the parish, but if you were to, it's not an exact replica, but the amount of

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services that are in there, uh, and the aquatics facility, the school, the daycare, they have a youth camp, laundry list of senior programs. Like, it's like a community hub. And I I realize, you know, Long Beach Island is an affluent area, of course, but it really caters to

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the 10,000 people that are year-round residents there, and not all those people are. They're retired bluecollar people that bought houses many years ago. So they're sensitive to the costs. And so when you look at the community center, it's like one of those things that people can overlook. But when there

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are times and when you're using the services or there are times when they adapt to the needs of the community, people would be, you know, we would be at such a loss if we didn't have that community center because they fill so many different areas that you wouldn't think of. and you know and they they

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change with the times. So we you know we were operating a uh you know a point of distribution for different public health services. We at the health department we we have a program called healthy bones. It's one of the most successful weightbearing exercise programs and it's

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empirically establishes to build bone density in seniors. It's people are dying to get in this program like we have signups we have to have every year. Um, I mean there's so if you look at St. Francis Center and kind of maybe you can see what the why is. It's not the same

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thing, but you can get a sense of all the services there. I mean there's a huge der of mental health services. We know this. We survey the community. Well, there are some mental health services there, counselors and other programs. So, you know, sometimes we overlook the services uh since we don't

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maybe use them or, you know, we're lucky enough where we don't, you know, uh need them, but there are people out there in our community that could really benefit from the services. And so, I I just would encourage people to really think about um uh looking at those types of

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places, other YMCA locations. And you know what, if you have a chance, talk to someone who lives in those communities and say, "Well, what do you think about St. Francis or what do you think about the Y in your community? And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that are going to give you quite a few positive um things to say about it. Thank you very much.

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>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank >> Well, she >> just real quick. >> Just real quick, >> Linda Capacan. Maybe there's a small part that you have the answer to the lease payment structure. This is a payment from the Y to the township.

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>> What is that money going to be used for? Are you going to have a separate fund? >> So, no. Right now, so we're going to we're going to own the building and operate the building. They're just operating the building. They're operating. >> They're going to pay the township. >> They're not paying the township. >> You're not getting anything from the Y.

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>> We're still negotiating some of those things, but right now the it's a the lease is the we're building it and owning the building. They're we're basically hiring the operator. So there'll be no income whatsoever from this.

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>> We're still that's still that still to be decided. >> Okay. >> So the increase in taxes that will fund the capital is that going to be kept in a separate fund like a syncing fund or is it going into the general?

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>> Well, it's no it's going in the general fund I believe. >> I mean we don't have very much information about the money. >> So So the as has been said the project will build the building. So we borrow the money in advance just like and we pay a annual we pay annual debt.

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>> It's not a bond for this specific use. >> Well, it is a bond. Is it a mortgage? >> No, it's a bond for a specific specific use. >> Okay. And you're going to make >> annual payments. >> Annual payment. >> Okay. I thought I understood that you were going to lease it and there was

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going to be a lease payment. So there's no income whatsoever from any other source other than the taxpayers. to fund this entire project >> right now. >> Right now. So, we're kind of in a d loop. It's very difficult

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>> to put your arms around this and make a decision when there's no one >> in we're trying Yeah. We're trying to get as much information out as we can. >> Do you think that it's premature to rush it onto a November referendum when we know so little and it is now June, July?

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by the time we there's should be plenty of time by the time information be available. >> Mr. McDonald wants to say something >> you'll make that commitment to get these very specific answers to the community. Yes, >> it's very important if you want this to go through, we need the information.

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>> Do you have a comparative um why for a 30,000 person community? >> What what location would that be? >> There are probably 1,000 >> in New Jersey anywhere. 2500 probably 1,000 serve communities of 30,000

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people. >> One town is 18,00 >> 1,000 Y's in New Jersey serve 30,000. >> Is there any in New Jersey? >> Is there any in New Jersey? She says >> I'm looking for a comparable size community. 30,000 people that the Y serves. >> I want to provide an accurate list to

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you. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> Uh he was up first. Thank you. Send me that information. Rod, if you send me that information with comparative wise, I'll make sure. >> All right, stop cross talking please.

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>> Michael Carol Avenue. Again, real short. >> I hear you have 11 acres. >> If you really want to do something with this property that won't cost you anything, a novel idea is tunnel the towers. Let them come in and build a vet village for the DVs. Any DVs in here?

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Let them come in. Don't pay for everything. Don't you'll make business in the town. It won't take any jobs. If you really have to do something with the property, how about that? That's an awful idea. >> Well, again, this was presented to us that was not presented to us. Understand? So, >> that's another idea that it cost the

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taxpayers a lot of money. >> I understand. >> Just just something to throw out there. >> Thank you for your comments, Alisa. >> This gentleman, >> he spoke. >> Please state your name for the record. Raymond Leinsky, 1251 Capstand Drive.

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Uh, I just want to say I've been here 45 years. I moved from Bayon and when we were here, we had our kids have not had we had nothing. Tom knows, right? I mean, and we got by. Now, I'm not saying you can't have growth. I mean, we were

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in the pines for 20 years and then we moved to the water. So, we're paying more because we're on the water. I get all that. But I mean, it's almost like, you know, we just had these increases and now here we're looking at a Y. I know the Y was probably during that or before that. So, you're bringing it up

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anyway. But it has to be a situation where eventually we and YMCA we had one in Bayon. I was there all the time with my brother. I loved it. Uh it's it's a great organization. Uh and again, I'm just saying we have to start looking at

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what we're doing here. I mean, I knew your dad, right? building all the houses in Fox Hollow. I never got a h house from him though. I had to move I had to move in I had to move to Pines was the last one. He beat me out. The guy. But the bottom line is it is a great town.

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Veronica knows me. I I I you know I do some insurance here, right? But bottom line is uh and I've been here 30 years doing that. Uh, I'm just saying it and I can afford it, but it gets to a point where you're looking at it, you get that

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tax bill today. It's it's like I paid my house off. Now I'm getting pissed off of the of the of this. It's like this like a mortgage now, you know, like my old mortgage in the pines. So again, it's like it's all relative. You make the mind, but now it's it's going out. It's

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going out. And, you know, I'm just saying we have to watch our spending. Can we go back to that little sweet tax haven? That's why we all move to fork river, the nuclear plant, all that. I hope they bring back Ford nuclear. Yes.

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All of that data centers, anything. Yeah, it's a different subject. I do, right? >> Get out of here alive with that one. [laughter] But and there are a lot of people that think like me, but there's some that don't. I will just say that uh

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you know, we have to do something with the spending. We can't, you know, we after all you are Republicans. I'll see you later. >> Alice Sheret Lib and Fork River. Um, when will the meeting minutes be available? >> Excuse me. >> Meeting minutes. When? Meeting minutes. When?

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>> As soon as soon as we can get them done. >> Okay. Do you put them just you put them out over the public >> approved by the governing body? They are put out on um our municipal website under the public record. So they won't be available to >> and then this is being filmed by the schools. So it is available to replay

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all of this right on the channel 21 from WLTS. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alisa, >> state your name. >> Hi. Alisa Waller Crestwood Drive. Just two questions. Um

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the um let me just get here where I'm at. The YMC's are classified as public accommodations under title three of the ADA. Is that true? >> Yeah, I I helped write the ADA. >> Okay. Regulations I'll answer your question. >> Yeah. So, I'm just hitting

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>> in the 1990s. >> I'm just hitting >> I helped write the ADA >> accommodations for recreation and sport for our country. >> Okay, that's cool. >> That's cool. I'm an educator, so I I can relate. But uh what I'm touching on is the changing priorities uh that are

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coming back possibly for the uh disabled community and how that might >> we use the word otherly abled not disabled >> otherly abled. Well, we use disabled in >> Thank you for that correction, but how will you handle the roll backs or the

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changes if that affects the YMCA if in fact you uh get your spot? So again, I'm an advocate for people with varying abilities. Um, so we in the YMCA go above and beyond, but it's required by

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statute to accommodate people with varying abilities, whether they're permanent varying abilities or temporary varing. >> Understood. But our taxes will pay will fund that. And so the the changes to uh the disability, the ADA act may affect how you're able to do our jobs at the

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YMCA. No, >> I disagree with you. >> Okay. Um the other question is the public purpose doc Dr. So you mentioned that only 3,000 people uh answered our survey corrective out of 30. So that's 10%. And you had mentioned that 10 we

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get a 10% discount. Woohoo. So how much does that equal? Like how much why why don't we just get a free why why doesn't the township people get a uh the a free pass? because we're paying for it because of the

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public purpose doctrine which states that we're supposed to be given something in equal value back. So what we give you, we're supposed to receive an equal value. >> First of all, you're not giving me anything. >> Well, no, the YMCA >> we develop YMCA's around the US 500

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here, right? So you're not giving me anything. Uh what the community is receiving as infrastructure for the funds is the building and The cost of running that building, if done by a municipality without a not

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for profofit partner, would put an additional $1 million of taxpayer cost into the taxable uh activity of of the township. >> So public private partnership relieves the municipality of that additional

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ongoing operating expense. >> Oh, interesting. >> All right, that's it. Thank you. >> That's the benefit of a public This guy's got an eagle shirt. >> He does too. Look at his left. >> Tony Rosolei. Um,

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>> I want the township to consider something that I don't know if you've considered it or not. You're going to take away belief in your citizens. belief in the in the citizens and the

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parents of the kids that live in the town that they can't do their jobs. This is from your website. It says the Y is committed to strengthening communities through programs that

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promote youth development, healthy living, and [clears throat] social responsibility. That's black and white. That's what it says. So my question is to you, do you have faith that your constituents

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can do their job? Can the parents do their job? Can your churches in town do their jobs? Can the schools in this town do their jobs, which is what the Y is saying that they do.

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what I'm concerned about like mental health. Go up and down Lacy Road, all you see is doctor's row. You got a problem, we got every kind of doctor you can think of right outside these doors and before you hit, you know, Route

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Nine, mental health, partake in it. It's there. Affordable Care Act, something is going to cover you. Okay. Um, but the bigger concern to me is you as elected members of our township [clears throat]

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think about do we really need their help? Do we really have less faith in the people who elected you to do these simple things that they say they do in black and white? Something for you to think about. Thank you for your time to

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Tony. Tony, can I say one thing to that? That's why I've always said hopefully all the information will be out there for November. And I had to learn a lot about this. The answer to your question is we all get a

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choice to learn and listen. Are we do are the parents doing a good job? Are the kids doing a good job? That is a question, not us. You're putting it on us. That's a question for every individual

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person in the town. That's a personal question. >> It is. >> And you're right on target. Where you're not on target is putting that on us. And when we say we want the public to vote on it, they got to make that decision.

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Because remember the one thing about projects like this, it does not have to go up for a referendum. >> Okay. >> I really I hope everybody understands that

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governing bodies do not have to put this on the ballot. And this one chose to because we want your question asked and we want the public to answer it. Well, I hope the public kind of listens to what you have

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to say and I hope the public realizes what I had to say. It is a matter of the vote and that's called free will and free choice and that's America and that's what we're about. Okay. But it's a very deep question. It's a hard question for anybody to answer. >> Tony, let let me just

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>> I have no faith in people with a lot of money. Okay. Stepping forward. So, if you're going to talk about people who are very very rich, >> I don't want to hear it. [laughter] >> No problem. No. what I'm saying here, what I want to say here. Unfortunately, over the last couple of years, we've had

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some tragic accidents in the high school, and you know what I'm talking about. >> Yes, >> those are kids. Kids are not going to walk into doctor's offices and things like that. >> The parents aren't doing the why >> and we have one less tragedy. It's worth

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it. >> The parents aren't doing their job. >> Well, I don't know if the parents aren't doing their job. I'm not going to blame the parents. I'm not going to blame anybody, but kids kids sometimes they just can't talk to their parents. So, wait a minute. Let me finish. If they can walk into the Y and get some help

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and one and one kid survives, it's worth it. >> They can't They can't walk into their church. They can't walk into their doctors. >> They don't feel comfortable, Tony. >> Feel comfortable walking into a Y. >> They might. That's where the other That's where their friends are going to be.

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>> And they're going to have professionals there to spot them. >> All right. Well, again, it's got to go up for a vote. I hope everybody takes all the information. >> Please stop talking, everybody. Sorry. Go ahead. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Carol.

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That was all day. >> State your name. >> Carol Middle, >> I'd like to speak directly to you, Mr. McDonald. Um, >> okay. >> Being the parent of a child that had issues. >> Mhm. >> You can't treat a kid without the

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parents permission if they're underage. So, a kid walking into the Y, >> a kid walking into the Y cannot be treated. >> I didn't say treated. >> You did. >> You just did. >> No, I did not. >> Be very careful about what you're trying to say with people with children that are at risk.

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>> And my son died of suicide. And I don't talk about it here. You're very wrong. Sorry. >> Uh any more comments? >> Uh yep. >> Just state your name for the record. >> My name is Ed Wjowski. I live in the

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Noca Harbor. Something was brought up during the marketing presentation that didn't make sense to me. I can't wrap my heads around and it kind of raised a red flag. If I understand correctly, he said that when these buildings are built, no two buildings look the same. Um, that

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doesn't make sense to me because if we're cost conscious and we had a blueprint for a building, you know, why wouldn't we want to save perhaps save some money on architectural fees or whatever, you know, to to, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the wheels already invented, why are we

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inventing the wheels again? So yeah, just ask the architecture. >> This is great. So interestingly, we just had this conversation. My company started three years ago, a procurement company that allows us to reduce the cost of construction by 5%.

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And it's because we're doing exactly what you talk about. The floor plans that you saw are very, very similar to floor plans of wine staves all over the US. I've been doing this for 35 years, and I preach exactly what you're preaching, which is if it's not Why? Why

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are we trying to fix it? So, we use the same wood flooring. We use the same detail wood flooring, use the same air handling units. Uh, in my sharing of not looking uh exactly alike, we actually want to use materials in southern New

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Jersey that work best in southern New Jersey, not materials that are more costly and are more consistent with construction methods in say South Florida. Right? So the building will look different, but when you step inside the building, same front desk details,

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same locker details, same pool tank systems, same filtration systems, all the efficiencies of all the consistency and safety, mitigating construction costs that we can bring into our portfolio, we want to bring into this

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project. So you're spot on. It's a very good point. >> Thank you. I appreciate you. >> Thank you, >> Regina. Just state your name. >> Regina Desa, Sunset Drive, Sunrise Beach. There was something I forgot to mention. I do review the bills at the

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district, the school board, the board of education every month that I possibly can. I've been doing it for over 15 years. This past week though, I saw the bill for the YMCA for the rental of the pool for the swim team. It's only $1,000 and I'm pretty sure that was the annual voucher. Thank you for your comments.

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Anything else? Seeing >> a motion to close the floor. >> All in favor ordinance resolution. Sorry, >> we're going to wait. Are we going to >> You want No. Yeah. Your comments. No.

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Yeah. We're done, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Resolution 2026-215 resolution of the town of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance with the open public meetings act to discuss matters personnel anticipate impending litigation and contraction matters.