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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=iNuHBcNKG_Q

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In compliant, excuse me, in compliance with the open public meetings act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. Notice was posted on the township's official website and posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting. Notice was also published in the township's official newspaper directing the public to the township's legal notices web page

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in accordance with applicable applicable law. Will everyone please rise and salute the flag followed by a moment of silence? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under

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God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> [clears throat] >> So th this meeting I give a little preamble. The this meeting tonight is specifically to place a referendum question on November's ballot. Um in

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support of or against um uh the proposed YMCA. Um I'm try and make uh you know everybody's welcome to to uh come up after we get done with our discussion. and we're going to open it up to public comments. Um, but again, this meeting is specifically to play due to statutory

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guidelines. We have to be at there's so many days prior to the to uh election day where we have to get the ballot um precise for the county. So, that's the point of of this this special meeting tonight. So with that, Veronica.

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>> So um over the past several uh weeks, um once we had decided that we were presenting a question on the November referendum ballot, there's obviously uh the deadline is August 7th to get that to the county. Uh so we have looked at several different ways to present the

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question as to what the emphasis and the focus is so that it was a question that was well thought out and understandable by the public because sometimes if you've seen referendum questions, no means yes, yes means no. We wanted it to be as straightforward as possible so everybody understood what what we're doing. So we looked at several different

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ways of like emphasis on community investment, emphasis on recreation and wellness, um public ownership um emphasis, comprehensive community center emphasis, and voter friendly emphasis. So there's several different ways to look at it, but we wanted something that did explain um as much as we can. So

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what was developed among uh us um ca was a question with um obviously the explanatory statement and yes means yes and no means no kind of thing. Um just um it is a non-binding that it's not a binding question. It's not the same as what the school board does. So um it is

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to to get the voter sentiment as to whether or not they're in favor of um in you know engaging in uh the town issuing bonds. I'll read the public uh question that is being proposed. Shall the township of Lacy be authorized to issue bonds in the amount of $45

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million for the construction, furnishing, and equipment of a new community recreation facility to be operated in partnership with the YMCA providing recreational, aquatic, wellness, youth, senior, and community programming. Would you like me to read the explanatory statement as well?

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>> Yes. Go ahead. >> Okay. The explanatory statement is currently the township of Lacy is exploring a partnership with the YMCA of the Jersey Shore to construct an approximate 63 63,000 square foot recreation facility within the boundaries of Lacy Township. The project

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would include, but not be limited to, indoor aquatic facilities, including competitive and recreational pools, fitness and wellness facilities, gymnasiums and indoor sports courts, child care and youth development space, senior citizen programming space, multi-purpose community meeting rooms,

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walking/running track and wellness areas, administrative and support facilities, parking, utility, site improvements, and related infrastructure. The township share of the project would be financed through the issuance of general obligation bonds in an amount of 45 million subject to

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all applicable laws and regulations. The township and the YMCA will work cooperatively together to ascertain outside funding sources through discretionary funds, grants, and benefactors to reduce the general obligation bonds. Yes or no? And then a

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yes vote means you favor the township of Lacy proceeding to borrow 45 million through the issuance of general obligation bonds to construct a new community recreation facility in partnership with the YMCA. If approved and the township committee sub substantially decides to proceed, the

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township would own and participate in the development of the facility pursuant to a negotiated agreement with the YMCA which would be responsible for who would be responsible for operating the facility and providing recreational aquatic wellness youth senior and community programming. The ownership of

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the facility will be the township of Lacy. The final operating responsibilities, membership structure, maintenance obligations, and public access provisions would be established in a formal agreement approved by the township committee. The cost of the bonds would be repaid over time through

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municipal debt service in the annual operating budget. A no vote means the voters are not in favor of the township of Lacy issuing general obligation bonds and notes in the amount of 40 45 million. That is what the um question is that that has been drafted. And I don't

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know if you have any discussion on it, want any changes to it or anything like that. >> Mr. Connor, can you weigh in on it on the [clears throat] >> I I had an opportunity to review the proposed question drafted by your administrator. I find in fact that it conforms with the provisions of NJSA

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um 19 col 371 which authorizes non-binding referendum uh on a general election ballot um from outside of the legal parameters um and just based on my experience in reading a number of bond

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questions that have been placed on ballots uh throughout the years both by proposed by locally and the state of New Jersey. Uh I thought the wording of the question as proposed uh was succinct. Uh I thought it avoided a lot of confusing

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language and wording. I think any more would be superolous actually. Uh and I thought the explanatory statement um was well um was well written. So it's my opinion that both from a legal perspective as well as from a public

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policy perspective that this question is written and explanatory statement um is is very good. >> Thank you Mr. Connors. Anybody have any questions or comments? >> I just want to make a a very quick comment. Um, the one thing is is

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I know there's a lot of questions out there about a lot of things concerning the why. The only reason we have to get this question on the ballot is because we got August 7th deadline. That does not mean

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more information is not going to come forth. There's still a lot of things we want to share with the public. There's a lot of questions. We know that the public wants to share uh ask ask us and get the answers from the Y. This is only because we have to have this on by to

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the county by August [clears throat] 7th. With that said, that still gives everybody us working on it, you as the public asking questions, three months [clears throat] to ask questions, bring forth concerns

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or anything. But this is not tonight's uh question does not mean that this is happening. You know, we chose to put this on a referendum to have the uh voters and taxpayers of Lacy have a say yay or nay.

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And I just wanted to stress that this [snorts] is just so we can meet the deadline to get it on the ballot. We still have three months to gather all the information that everybody uh is looking for. >> Thank you, Bob. >> If I could, mayor.

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>> Yeah. And I [clears throat] a lot will be said here tonight one way or another. I know that the Y is a great organization. That said, it is um a yes mo a yes vote means you want to spend the money up to $45 million. No means

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you don't. And I'm going to say it here publicly and on recorded line in front of everybody. If that referendum comes back and I vote opposite of whatever it is, I don't deserve to be your servant and you

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should vote me out. I will guarantee you that when that thing comes back, I will vote the way you voted. I'm here working for you. I'm saying that publicly. Um you'll see me in my vote when that referendum comes back. Um, but it it's a

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big decision and it's an awful lot of money. Think about it. Um, yes, we have needs. Yes, they're a great organization, but it's got to be your decision because it's your money. If I don't vote the way you want, I don't deserve to be up here. I'm going to vote

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the way you want. It's $45 million. Yes. No, it's no. We don't spend it. That's it. That's as brief and succinct as I can get. You always knew me know me to be a straight shooter. you put me up here through several several elections. I'm grateful to you and I'm going to

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keep my word to you and I think everyone up here will do that. Um because I know them to be people of great integrity and great parents and grandparents. I'm not going to be too longwinded, but that's the way it's going to go for me. I'm 20% of this. That's the way I'm doing it. Thanks, Mayor. Thank you, Pete. Yeah, I

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I'll [clears throat] talk here. Um, when we decided to go out for a referendum, I got a little concerned because we've had referendums here where the question and and the interpretive are totally confusing to everybody. And you're standing in a voting booth and you're

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asked to read this, read this, and then read the interpretive and people are waiting to vote and so forth and so on. I thought this was one of the better ones. Um, best one I've seen. Um the interpretive is very good. The question is is is succinct and I would focus tell

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you to focus on the interp the explanation or the interpretive because that's where that's where it is. I mean it's not legal ease. The the public question is basically legal ease because we have to meet the standards that the state of New Jersey requires us to meet and then with the explan explanatory

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statement we can go into further detail. So I would tell you to focus in on that. >> Mayor, that's all I have. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And just to summarize, um, we hear we hear it all the time. What's do you want to >> Yeah. Go ahead. [laughter] >> No, I just I heard somebody say we

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should have voted this be voted our true feelings before this. We we as a a committee together. We have to venture out a lot on different things to see what's best for our town. That doesn't mean that we're always right. It doesn't mean that we're trying to push something

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down your throat. We just have to venture out to see what works for us here. It again will be your decision and that's why we're doing it this way so that it is a decision made by the public. It's not our decision. It's your decision and whatever your decision

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comes back as is what we'll follow through with. At least I know that's what we've discussed is everybody here has a vote on once it comes back. And if it's a no by the people, then it's a no by me because I'm going to follow through with what the people want. Okay.

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But I know I heard someone say in a discussion here, why didn't we just not get involved in this? Well, it's our job to step out of our, as I call it, the arena and see what is out there for our township. It is our job to do that. It

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It's not an easy job. I I I tell you that right right here and now. To sit in this position is not an easy position because you've got a lot of people looking at you wanting to know why you did this, why you did that, how come,

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how we we try our best to do the best for this town. And I think I think by our public works, our police, our our township [clears throat] building, we we show what we are about in this town and it and it's it's making our town look

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like it belongs. looking like a good town, a great town to raise your children or on the top 10 list in the state of New Jersey of a place to live. I I just I just I know that maybe you don't agree with that, but it's the truth. It's I I read it all the time.

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People want to come to Lacy Township because it's a beautiful town and I raised my children here and I'm very proud of it. And that's another thing. Please be respectful tonight. when someone's up talking, let's not have have everybody having something to say.

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Let's listen up to what everybody has to say because it's important to hear everybody's thoughts that they're entitled to them, too. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you, Peggy. Yeah. Um, as as I started to say, we hear a lot that we're not we're we're not transparent. We just

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do what we want. But we're clearly trying to give you as much information as we can. Um, we're putting it out on referendum. We're giving you the choice and whatever uh whatever the public decides is is what we'll abide by. And with that, I'm going to open it up to public comments. So,

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[clears throat] >> just please state your name. >> Mary Teal. >> I've been down here permanently now for eight years. However, I grew up here in the summers, so I've seen the town go from nothing to what it is today. With that though, I believe you're putting the cart before the horse. My first town

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I lived in was Ringwood. Very rural, very high taxes, no commerce. We wanted a YMCA. It was the people that wanted the YMCA, not the town. We did a master plan committee. We did a survey of the town with a master plan long range. And

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it that was the one thing the town needed. Even though we had five huge lakes, two smaller lakes, we had plenty of water, but we needed a facility. We ended up not being able to do it even though we ran programs for a couple of years because we didn't have the infrastructure. We had no sewers or I no

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sewers, no water. We just couldn't do it. But they still ran programs within the community for us. I've been on a school board. I worked as a community leader in my section of town to enlarged the Monksville Dam. I was president that it got large. If anybody knows any of

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that area, the dam was put in for the Wanuku reservoir. It was too narrow for roads. I ran the committee to get that wider so you could pass two vehicles on it. Um, my next town, we had a YMCA come in to run a state facility for autism

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for the community, not for the school, but they used the pool and rented it out. Somerset Hills YMCA did that. I've taught scuba swimming. Um, I've worked at the YMCA itself. I've belonged to many YMCA's over the years, so it's a

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good thing. I'm 110% for a YMCA in town. I am 100% against the town paying for it right up front. [applause] I think the town needs it. I'll be honest, I think the town needs it. I have a real problem as a as having been

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sw taught swimming in scuba to see all these drownings as seriously as my kids swam by the time they were walking. It's something that's very important to me. We have all these water and I learned to swim in Barnett Pines, what we called the second le Beach years ago. So I

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learned to swim down here. I was lifeguard in Sunrise Beach when Sunrise Beach had a beach many years ago. I'm talking the 60s. So I'm kind of familiar with the area. Like I said, I've seen it grow. I think the town could use it. We have do have a lot of I asked my neighbors, they're all older. We're not

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in an over 55. We're on the Sunrise. And a lot of them say, "Yeah, we like that." But they do not want the town paying for it. They don't want the town responsible for it. I could see you leasing the property to YMCA and the YMCA building it managing it, which is what they do,

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but not the town paying for it. We just can't afford the extra >> taxes. >> [applause] >> Thank you for coming. [clears throat] >> Kevin Flynn, Borne Pines, thank you for reading the ordinance or the referendum,

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Veronica. Uh you mentioned about they would maintain the building, >> but you didn't say that they're not paying any rent. Is that true? So right now the township would be owning the building. >> So they're not paying rent.

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>> No. >> So we're stuck with the $45 million building. >> The So they're operating the building. It's our building. It's our building and our property. So we're they're operating the building. >> Yes. So they're they're getting a sweetheart deal. They're going to run the build run their business out of it

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at our the taxpayers's expense. >> Yep. >> You want to frame it that way? >> Yep. That's the That's layman's terms right there, Steve. >> Yeah, please. >> That's layman's terms. >> You own properties. Do you will you build me a house and I can live in it for free and just maintain it? No. So

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you you don't run your business that way. Why would you come here and ask the taxpayers to get give them a sweetheart deal, have a building for free to run their business in it, >> right? >> And at at our expense. >> So the

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>> It's not a smart business. You're a businessman. How was that a smart deal? >> This came about from from uh uh a number of years ago when we were revisiting the entire municipal complex and we were >> wanted to remove all we wanted to get the tax ratables from Lacy Road off Lacy

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Road. We're losing money by having the properties that we have where they are. So the ideal property is is right next to Gilly Park to create a town center. And at the time we had, I think it was three buildings in uh mun a town a new town hall, new police station, and an

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indoor rec center, not a Y, an indoor rec center for approximately $60 million. In that time period, the Y contacted us and said, "Hey, do you think we could partner up? Is there opportunity to partner up?" That's how that came about and that's how we got to hear that.

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>> So this So we're stuck with the bill for 30 years. What's the What's the after the loans paid off? What are we talking here? 70 $80 million when we're all said and done. >> Well, so right now our so on our budget, we're anticipating a payment of about 3

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million. I think so. So that's about uh right now our our on our total budget, our borrowing is about a half a percent of our budget. The vast majority of of uh of your tax dollars are to uh employees and uh benefits. So when

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you're complaining about taxes, you're you're it's it's the employee costs far and away. Everything else that's about 60 65% of the budget, please. >> So So again, you're talk so our our credit rating is the highest uh rated by standard and pores. Our collection rate

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is above 99.9%. So, uh, you know, the township does have the ability to, uh, to pursue a capital project, which is what you would like. That that's the idea when you're doing a major capital project. >> The roads in this town are falling apart and we're worried about building the wall.

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>> We pave we pave roads every single year. >> Not like we used to. I've been around since the last time, Steve. We don't pave anywhere near the amount of roads that we did when Casey first came here. We're spending over millions of dollars a year paving roadsaving. And we're going right back to pre Casey Parker

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days when the town's roads were falling apart >> because not every because we because if we authorized I mean again I'm making up numbers. We're going to pave like 50 roads we could the subcontractors couldn't do it. You guys couldn't do it. You wouldn't be able to keep up with it anyway. So right now we're we're doing

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uh Hayne Street and Penn Avenue. We do we pave we keep up with our maintenance every year. I mean we do it on budget meetings. >> Not enough though. You're falling. >> That's right. You're saying, well, you're so you're saying >> he's got a list a mile long. A roads got to be paid. We only do a couple because why? Because most of it's paid for for

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grant money. >> Well, you're you're saying the same. This is just a choice about where where we would like to put capital improvements and the the >> the infrastructure is more important than adding on some more stuff. >> We're we're right now we're do redoing the dam at the third lake. We're redoing Bamberlake Dam. I just got done saying

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we're paving Hayne Street. We're paving Penn Avenue. What else are we doing? >> A few bulkheads. Uh, >> we're doing a bulkhead street in bulkheads. So, >> equipment. >> Yeah. So, I I don't I don't, you know, buy that argument or understand that that >> Well, listen, this is a sweetheart deal

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for the Y. They're getting a brand new building for free. They just have to maintain it. We're paying for it, people. >> This is That's why it's called a referendum. >> That's right. And now now that you say that, Pete, thumbs up, man. You stood up and you told us where you stand, however

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it comes out. Peggy, same thing. Now I'm going to go down the line. Bobby, if it comes out no, how are you voting? >> To start with, I've said right from the get-go before anybody. No, but a lot of these people haven't been here to hear it though. >> Yes, >> because you known

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>> I know, but I'm just up here. >> I'm voting with the whatever the public votes. >> Okay, Stephen. >> So, we did this. We just did this with the marijuana [clears throat] vote. The marijuana vote was denied 60/40. We did not go and and pass an ordinance allowing marijuana shops. So if it so if

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it gets denied, I'm not I'm not going to vote for it. >> Okay. And just to clear the air, >> same with you. >> Okay. >> People deny it because we know uh we've had referendums get uh denied and still >> they come back a couple years later. >> Yes. >> You then you then the voters should hold

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us accountable. >> Pete, you stood up and you came right out and said it. So it's up to you, man. >> I've known you for a long time. If if I go bad, turn on me. >> Question. can't do it. >> No, I I have the floor. But I listen, I'm not against the why. I set the record straight, too. I'm not against

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the Y coming here. The problem is is the taxpayers paying for it and them not paying any rent. >> We're stuck with the bill for 30 years. No good. Sweetheart deal for them. >> So, we're we're still negotiating deal for us. >> We're still negotiating a term sheet on

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some of that stuff that I don't have all the answers to right now, >> but for the most part, they're pretty not going to pay rent. So, hey everybody out there in the world, vote no in November. [applause] Hello, Louise Samson. My first time at a lacy meeting.

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>> Thank you for everything you do. My question as a layman. >> Okay. >> Yes. Don't take it out. Just Just speak it. You can turn it up that way. >> Can we raise it? >> Um >> specific to the referendum.

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>> Well, it's got to short for me and I have um raise them. >> Yes. Yes, please. >> Can't take it out of the thing, though, because then it changes everything in the back room. >> Good town. Should we move it up real quick?

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>> I'm tall. >> Okay. I I I can't raise I go to an ET. >> It's okay. It's okay. [clears throat and cough] >> Specific to the referendum, >> which is why we're here. >> Here comes the the tech guy.

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>> Oh, good. >> Thank you, sir. amplify. >> Plus, it goes to the line. >> And if everybody just quiet. [clears throat] >> Oh, sorry. That doesn't come any closer to I can move this out of the way. >> Can you hear me? >> And then you go like that. >> Can you hear me now? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. I'm here with an open mind. I listened to the referendum. I heard the wonderful benefits of what it will do. I heard a price tag of 45, but I'm not clear what that 45 million bond if it's the only bond we will be having or will

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we be having future bonds in the future because that that's one question because generally one price is never enough. It always goes up. In my experience with government, I was on a budget committee for six years. That's one question. The

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second thing is in layman terms if I'm assessed at 360 thou 67,000 paying 10,000 in taxes right now what does that mean to me if this passes with >> all of that information is on the municipal website we have a whole chart

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>> but I'm asking you for the referendum purposes because it does not explain it to me >> about three 375 >> a year >> about it would be about $300 a What's the assessment? >> The assessment $300,000 assessment is

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about $300 a year about. >> Is that an honest like you really believe that's all it'll be? The 300 >> the taxes. Quiet please. The taxes is on the website >> because that >> it's on the township website >> based on the current tax rate and the assessment >> the current the current assessment.

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>> Yes. 2026. >> Okay. So in five years from now that can change. Well, it it chang it will change. >> The payment is the payment itself is fixed. That's said there's a huge difference in a capital project and how

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we borrow as oo well you're yeah budget with employee costs that it's a big difference. >> But okay. So you're saying the $45 million bond >> cost >> there won't be ever be you won't ever come back asking for more money for this project. Well, I can't. So, for we're

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the initial the the initial the cost that we're we're asking you to borrow is 45 million. Can I predict what'll happen 20 years from now? No, I cannot. >> Well, I'm talking even 5 years from now. >> No, no, it's so anticipate as you know, someone who's living on a fixed million.

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I would imagine that would go pretty far. So, because it's clear what the benefits are, but it's not necessarily as clear what the >> putting as much information. >> Oh, I know. You did a great job with the language. That was my only question on that. Okay. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> I think um Steve is [clears throat] >> nice shirt. Just tell him to be quiet. >> Everybody, please stop the talking >> cuz you're loud enough. [laughter]

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>> I'm in the back. >> Can you get in here and it's going to me out in the back? >> You sure? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Can you hear me? >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Uh Steve Barl, uh Lacy Township resident since 1962. I'm pulling out all the

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stops. I even got my hometown shirt on tonight. But before I ask questions about the proposed language, which is incomplete, you're basing it on a graph online that's from last year. The taxes

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already went up at least two times since then. So the numbers are skew skewed. They're not the true numbers. I liked what Kevin had to say about the YMCA. So the YMCA is kind of like a union.

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It's an organization that controls its own money. I was in a union 41 years, elected union official for 25 of them. In our bylaws, just like Jersey Shore, YMCA has bylaws

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and bylaws tell you a lot about that particular organization. So, my first question to you people, did they provide you a copy of their bylaws? Did you ask for a copy of their bylaws? So, you don't know that much about the

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Jerseyshore YMCA. So, I'm going to tell you a little bit about them, but I'm going to switch. I'm only going to tell you a little bit. At the next township meeting, we need to have a senior official from the Jersey Shore YMCA to

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explain a number of things about money. I'm only going to mention the CEO for the Jersey Shore YMCA tonight. In our union bylaws, all salaries were recorded and adjusted annually. So all

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the membership knew what was going out, including benefits. So I spent a lot of time looking up the benefits for the Jersey Shore YMCA. And after really looking, and I'm pretty

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good on a computer, I finally found out the amount of money that the chief CEO president Lauren Laura Gz, it's either a Z or an R.

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Her annual salary is $472,000. the YMCA. Now, a lot of people are in retirement plans. I was in one. I got 2% upfront, 50% on the next three, and everything else I had to put in. The

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YMCA has got the most biggest sweetheart retirement system in this country. The YMCA contributes 12% [clears throat] of the base salary of every administrator,

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every uh uh every person including the workers. So the CEO gets an extra $40,000 more than that, $47,000. >> 48 We're going up into her retirement

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account. Now let's look at benefits. All of us had life benefits, >> health benefits, life insurance, disability insurance, stuff like that, dental, eyeglass. Okay. So the YMCA

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pays 100% of the life insurance and disability insurance. They pay 75% of the health, dental, and vision. Okay? They have free membership. Any YMCA [clears throat]

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employees kid can go to the child care center at the YMCA for 75% off. Yes, we're going to pay for them to get these benefits. When they talk to you, they say, "Well, any profit goes back

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into the building and the operational expense." That's not the truth. A portion of our money goes to Jersey Shore YMCA Upper Echelon and to the National YMCA upper echelon.

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That national CEO makes over $800,000 a year. Yet every YMCA has got to have a volunteer committee of local residents to run the building. Yet we have

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directors, administrators above them that are paid lucrative salaries, which I want to bring them there and I want them to explain exactly what they do for that type of money. They make twice the that lady makes twice the money as the president of the United States. And it

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don't end there. >> Steve, can I just say something to you? Can you turn around talking to the microphone because you want want this to go out to the public, not to the people in the room. >> Okay. Hey, the other thing, >> well, I'm saying the public watching it on TV is going to want to hear what he

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has to say. >> Are most important to me. You guys are important, but >> I'm not trying to be fresh. I'm trying to get it so the people on that watch it at home can hear him. >> Oh, a lot of people are watching. That's >> He's talking that way. They're not going to hear him. >> So,

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you also got perks when you're in an organization. Automobiles, >> credit cards, and other perks. >> You'd have to come back. your five minutes. >> My five minutes are up already. >> I didn't even get started.

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[applause] >> And and honestly, since you guys put that five minute rule in, it's wrong. >> Just stay right there in the front and go back up again. Steve, >> good evening. Get us back to the

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referendum. Linda Capitan. Um, thank you for reading, Linda Capitan. >> Oh, you've been here before. >> Thank you for reading the referendum. I was wondering, you know, sometimes it's hard and something long like that. Is it possible to distribute that? Can that be public so we could read it while we're here? If there's any questions, make

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copies of it or something. >> Do you have any on you? >> No, >> just a question. You know, I was trying to follow everything there. Um the thing that I noted that might be missing on the referendum um you talked about the

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capital cost and that's great but it we know because we've been coming to the meetings that there's going to be a tax increase but you don't mention it in the referendum. Many people will for the first time know anything about this by reading the referendum and I think it fair to mention that there would be a

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tax increase to help offset the capital spending. Just a suggestion there. Um secondly, >> that's fair. [applause and cheering] >> Thank you. Um just kind of going back to where I was the first time, we still

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haven't gotten clarity on since there is no uh rent. We talked about the capital costs and I gleaned from the Asbury Press and the economic analysis you're 45 million bucks. They broke it down and I was still missing a couple and that might be the answer where the

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operational costs but 36 for the hard capital costs millions. I'm rounding. I [clears throat] did five billion in capital expenditures. So these are little numbers big numbers. Two million in soft costs and a million in furniture and fixtures. I was really surprised. Does

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that mean the furniture inside the Y and No. >> Jim, what is furniture and fixtures? >> That's I don't know what that include that we're not doing furniture. >> Okay. All right. Then in that case, we're at um 38 million and you're asking for 45. Is the rest of it contingency in

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the capital budget? >> Yeah, some of it is. >> So, there is some contingency in that borrowing number. Do you know what the percentage is? >> No, I don't. >> Okay. from doing capital projects. That's kind of important because there's never a project that comes in under budget ever.

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>> Um, so going on to the the cost outside of the capital, we talked about last time maybe you would have some clarity on who might pay for the ongoing operational costs. I don't mean salaries, but I mean we now have this building and there's shrubbery and there's outside lighting and there's

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security. Do we know who's going to cover those ancillary costs for this facility that Lacy owns? >> The Y is cover most of those >> most of what I mentioned. >> So then do I hear >> No, go ahead. >> Do I hear that there's not going to be

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additional monies coming out of the taxpayers for ancillary costs because you've only talked about the tax increase associated with capital. Are there any costs that are going to be in addition to capital costs that will also have to come out of the general budget?

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No, >> you have time to think about it. >> So, somehow everything associated with the building after it's built will be paid for by the Y. >> Well, that's what I'm just trying to clarify. >> The Y is is going to be responsible for

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operating the facility. They'll be paying >> insult. >> Yeah. Gas, electric. Um, >> what about other 20 years you might need a new roof? >> So, on something like So, it's our building. So we would be paying. >> Okay. So is there going to be money put aside in the annual lazy budget so that we don't get nicked for

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>> we're not you hear >> in general I don't want to go through this business. You know where I'm going with this. >> Yeah. So so yeah there so all those fine details are not worked out yet >> and you can't save money for a rainy day like that and have a fund that you're putting money into to do that in the

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municipal budget. >> Okay. I'm not familiar with your laws, >> but I just want I think people should know that it's not the end of the story. $300 >> annually increase in property tax perhaps. >> Um,

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>> can this referendum be pulled before November? I know you have a deadline to present it to the county to get it off. >> No, once it gets on the ballot, >> it is on the ballot. There's no way to get it off. So, if we could review the lang because I know you want to keep it with the

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language of of the referendum and I I I think we really should do some more work on that >> for the people that aren't as involved but are going to have a voice. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Anybody else? >> Anybody else?

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Make sure she gets one. [clears throat] >> Okay. Quiet. >> Quiet. >> Joe Gilmore of Lane Place for River. You know, I hear the amount of money, the 45 the $45 million. And it wasn't that long ago when you were trying to get this new

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municipal complex that you just went over building after building after building that was going to cost over millions of dollars each to bring up the snuff. And to me it would make a lot more sense

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if you're going to go get money to put it into our own buildings. Bring that up. I mean to have the Y come in pay nothing. And and by the way, how much is it going to cost the average citizen in Fork of River? >> So >> to join >> there's a discount. Um but

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>> 10%. >> We didn't go we're still working on the term sheet. So that will be available. >> You have no idea how much it's going to be. >> So >> at this point they they've um stated a minimum of a 10% resident discount and

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if you work for a company and you have at least 20 of your employees join, they would get a 20% discount. depending on the type of program and >> but most of the program if you'd like to finish >> most of of the programming and stuff is depending on how involved you want to

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get with the Y as to what you want to do. So there is there is a sliding scale depending on income as well at your household or individuals to be able to have a lesser rate based on household income. But I mean, you have no roundabout

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number how much the average because most people I mean you got a lot of retirement people here. >> So they don't work for some place that can get 20% off. >> And 20% off of what? >> You know, you you can't just say, "Oh, you can get a discount, but we're not going to tell you what it's going to

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cost." That doesn't even make sense. >> Well, these are things we're working on to be honest with you. >> I mean, we should know something by now. >> We're trying. It's any depending on the program, it could be anywhere from $35 to $60 a month. >> So, so if you're talking $60 a month,

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you're talking what? >> 720 a year at the at the high. >> And then beside that, >> Wyatt, please. >> Do you have any idea of how much their income is going to be above their cost? I mean, how much of a sweetheart deal is it? >> Well, again, so

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>> I mean, it's our building. We're paying for everything except them maintaining the inside. >> They're running they're running all >> depending how much do they plan on making in I mean if they they could be making a fortune off a building that's ours and we're going to end up paying for them. >> So we're still working on those details.

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>> Yeah, but you got to have answers. You can't have a meeting and not have answers. This meeting is >> deliberatory and negotiating. So we're not we can't define and I can I like is it if you if you're not getting the information you're asking for then then vote no. That's why

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we're doing this. >> Well, that's what I'm doing. But I mean >> but still we're doing >> but but still what about the other building? So you get a bond for 45 million for that. What about the money to fix >> No, we're not right now. This is what we're this is this is it. It's a referendum on the YMCA. That's that's

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what we're doing right now. >> Well, we need a new police station, don't you? >> We do. So >> that's right. There you go. >> So, so the police Yeah, we did. >> Get a new police station. Tell tell the wife build their own. >> Yes, we were trying that. We were trying that a couple years ago. >> Well, they tried people fought us on

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that, >> too. They didn't try a new police day when that thing I came to where they just wanted to build a new town hall or town whatever. >> No, it was a police station, recreation building, and a town hall >> for what? 100 million. Yeah. >> No, >> no. Like 60.

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>> Oh, there you go. 60. So, now we're getting a Y for 45. Hey. >> All righty. That's it with me. Thank you. Vote. >> NO. [applause] >> Just state your name. >> My name is Jim Tricto.

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>> Hi. Please. Uh I was a resident of brick for 29 [snorts] years. I moved here about five years ago [cough] [clears throat] for retirement. And uh I only have two points that I want to

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make. And the the first question is uh is is is a perception that I have that all you people I have heard say that you're going to vote by the will of the people and whatever comes on the referendum. But in in my mind I have to

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ask all of you who are very bright people up here how you could even ENTERTAIN [applause] how could you entertain a business proposal by the YMCA that is

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clearly advantageous to them and on the backs of the taxpayers's people. >> Mhm. >> I I don't I don't understand what you're thinking is other than you'll get to own property, additional property in town.

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>> Excuse me. >> We already >> you already own it. Okay. So, you glorify the property, let's say, but we are the ones that have to pay it. And the second point I would just like to make is that we I think Kevin said this

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about the infrastructure. We have an electrical grid problem in this town. We can't get electricity on a consistent basis. >> So I said this back that's we did this back in January. We met we had a meeting. I think I still have it. >> JCPNL is sp spending approximately $7

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million in Lacy Township. Um they've up they've been doing upgrade. I'm sure everybody seen them along Lacy Road. They're replacing the poles, running new transmission wires. In addition to that, they're doing another 16 million in the local area including the power plant. [snorts] Police quiet. So there the like I don't

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know exactly when people say this that stuff is not getting upgraded it is. >> I I'm not saying it isn't. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be entertaining other business deals until we have closed the doors on the infrastructure of what's not working for us right here.

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And that electrical piece is one big problem that I have noticed. >> It's not us. You understand that the >> us but but I I'm just as much aggravated about it as you cuz I lose power all the time where I live. Okay. Okay. >> But it's not us. We're on them. We're

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constantly calling. >> I'm not accusing you of it. What I'm saying is don't look for other business opportunities until we get this fixed. >> But but it's not ours to fix is what I'm trying to say to you. That's not part of what we fix. It's it's you're the

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representation of the town and the people and you are the ones that are a direct contact. >> You're on them all the time. >> The people who can fix it. >> They probably get an email every day from >> one of the all of us. >> Okay. I I I hear you, Peggy. [clears throat] >> It's bad. I mean, we understand that,

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but that what that has that's not what we're in charge of. >> Okay. >> That's what I'm trying to say. Well, we have a difference of opinion about what the responsibilities are >> right >> in your spot as the board member and ours. >> We're a taxpayer. We can't do that.

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>> The one the one thing with pushing and different things like Steve just said, so I agree with you a thousand%. I mean, I finally moved south too just like you did. I only made it from Loka Harbor to Forten River, so I get far. >> Probably is it more over there >> in Lanoka Harbor? I had no electrical

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issues in Fork and River. God, I have more than I I had in 20 years. >> Yep. Yes. >> Now, with us staying on them, like Steve just said, approximately $23 million is being invested [clears throat] from JCPNL to try to do upgrades in the town. So, we're pushing.

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>> We are, >> but we don't control them. That's that's the one thing. All we can do is push push push push push. And as we know, things don't always move as fast as we'd like them to. But, uh, >> they are working on it. >> I hear you.

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It's noted. >> And as far as prior priorities, I agree with you a thousand% and where you're coming from. And actually, I was kind of surprised when Kevin put me on the spot there for a second because Kevin knew way before I even was elected. This is my first term

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up here. When I came on here, this was already in the workings because the Y, like the mayor said, had approached the town with the idea of partnering with them uh when they were looking at other things. And I've always said no matter what when it comes to anything like this

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because believe it or not, yes, I represent all of you. I hear all of you and I'm going to follow with what you say, but on the same token. This might be hard to believe. There are people that do want it.

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>> So, you know, I hear you. I I agree. I know. >> I don't know. >> They're not in the room. They're not in the room. I'm just trying to be honest with you. And if there's one thing anybody that knows me and has watched, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not

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going to sit up here and you. >> Okay. >> To bleed that out. >> No, you don't. Because you know what? [clears throat] I talk real to you. And I hear you. >> I I I >> And that's why this referendum is so important. And it's got to be real

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simple. If you don't have enough information, you don't like the idea, you vote no. >> It's as simple as that. And it's that simple. If you like the idea and want to spend the extra tax dollars, you vote yes. And you'll never hear me tell you

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how to vote because month after month, meeting after meeting, I keep saying, listen, learn, walk into that booth and pull the lever that's best for you. And I've been saying that for over a year and a half.

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>> And that will happen. And >> that will happen. >> Yes. And and that's why even tonight. I mean, we know there's a lot of questions still to be answered and there's three months between now and November. And we plan on getting a lot more

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answers. We're trying to get the answers out there as as best we can to the public. It's not always fast enough, but there's one thing I've learned up here real quick. Don't say anything unless you have the exact answer. because assuming or throwing out an inaccurate

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number will bury you faster than you can think. So, we're working on like they said the terms of agreement and different things like that. We're working on that. Most of us are not happy with the discounts. There's a lot of things we're not happy with. We threw

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numbers back at them, but we don't have that worked out yet. >> Well, let me just go back to my second point about what we're not happy with. One was the electrical grids and trying to fix the infrastructure. And the second since I moved here is an

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astronomical bill for the school system that has been neglected for 20 years and now it's going to fall on our backs. Retired people as well as people that live in the community here to have to pay for that. And that means tax up. So,

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while we got to address those two big things, there's no way that you're going to get my vote to pass this YMCA. That Thank you FOR [applause] My name is Frank Jandanda. I've been here since 1967.

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Uh, was a little late coming here, but my question is, how does this benefit Lacy Township? I look at this room, I would say 90% of the people won't enter the YMCA. [laughter]

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>> Am I right? So I just What What is the benefit? What is the benefit to Lacy Township to have a YMCA that's going to raise my taxes, let's say 300 a year, which is going to be 42 year, whatever.

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So I had I've heard all this stuff, but what is our benefit to having this? YMCA. >> Well, there's an economic benefit of the township in addition to in the question I think Veronica what was in the qu the >> what's the all the amenities that are in the that go into a facility like that

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now >> what what's the economic benefit though >> well this it is um there's there's a lot of econom one you know there is a a portion to have interaction with the schools to help enhance the schools there's mental health services that they

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provide they are it does it is known when you do your demographics and your studies to increase house values in the community. It does bring >> quiet. I'm just telling you what the what the demographics say. You don't have to agree with me. >> Yes, >> you asked a you asked question. I'm

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giving an answer. >> In addition, there's an economic study that's been on the website for a couple months now. >> And if I could, mayor, go ahead. And so for for both sides, you know, when there's compet, excuse me, when there's competition and there's there's one

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dollar in a town and and there's competitors, you know, then there could be a situation where people cannibalize each other. If you have a a hub like the YMCA for mental health, for [snorts]

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child care, um are you going to hurt some of the child care facilities? Are you going to hurt some of the gyms? These are our businessmen and women too. Now, I know that YMCA is a wonderful facility and I know the people that are going to run it or at least the administration. So, in that regard, yes.

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But if we're talking about economic benefit, we have to talk about competition too because we're here to be transparent for our people and that's the way I feel about it. >> It's going to hurt some businesses >> for sure. I mean, I go retro dramas too. It may grow some businesses, too.

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It's going to be a hub. >> Yeah. But what's the percentage the age of percentage of people that are actually going to use? I mean, we can't get kids out of the house. >> They want to stay in their phones and their in their tablets. You think these kids are going to go use the uh YMCA? >> Yes.

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>> That's part of the reason we need >> Yes, they will. Yes, they will. >> I came from an quiet everybody, please. >> That's all I got. Thank you. Let's go that way. Let's go that way. Good evening. >> Please state your name.

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>> My name is Priscilla Brownie. I live in Loka Harbor and we have a home on the water. If this gets passed and gets built, it's going to basically push us out. We're retired and based on the value of our

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house and what the taxes look like, it's going to push us right over. I don't see the need for the YMCA. We have a recreation department that has multiple sports complexes throughout the town. They send

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me six or seven emails a month. I believe tonight there was a dinner under the stars on the beach by the recreation committee. They have all kinds of things going on. If you want to take a part in them, I

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don't think that it cost the cost is just too prohibitive. Why not sell them the property and let them build their own building? Why do we have to own it? And then down the road there's going to be maintenance on the building because

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we own it. >> That's going to increase the taxes again later on. With regard to the school tax, it's gone up 26% in three years and that was enough. But if we keep going up, a lot of the people that live

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in this town who are retired like we are, we can't afford to live here. Never mind use or why. We have beaches. We have lakes, we have parks, and we have a variety of other things in this town already, which the Y

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will duplicate. If you were to build an indoor outdoor swimming pool, then people would have a place to go. The high school kids could go and learn to swim, and we could have a swim team at the high school. One of my neighbors suggested a golf course.

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Another neighbor suggested a Forplex movie theater. other things for recreation other than a YMCA at the cost that is going going to be it's way too prohibitive. I for one will vote no and

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I know many of you personally but I still am going to vote no. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Take your time. >> I'm sorry. >> It's all right. Just take your time going back.

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>> Well, Jim Hughes, Lacy Township. I'll keep it short and sweet because there's a lot of people here that have things to say. Uh, number one thing I want to say, I watch a lot of the meetings at home. And what happens is this microphone, this you can't hear, but at home this

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sounds like a suitcase falling down a flight of stairs. People grab the microphone and I'm like a my volume control on my remote is worn out from this thing because it's like or it's between the two. A little piece of padding here. [laughter]

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Yeah. A little piece of a little a little piece of padding and a 45° neck on this stand. >> 45° 45 little little padding here. We got a piece of tape. Okay. >> [laughter]

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>> Okay, thank you. Thank you, man. Ignore that man behind the curtain. [laughter] >> Anyways, getting I'm going to keep it short and sweet. My mortgage has gone up 20% in the last year and a half. So, I really can't on my pension handle this anymore either. So, what I'm trying to

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uh get to is that, you know, we should just either take a breather on this or or, you know, a pause or something because it's, let's put it this way, for the taxpayers in Lacy Township currently, it feels like we're on a roller coaster going up that first big

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hill and when you're about to come down the big that big first drop, you look on the floor and you see a bunch of bolts and nuts rolling around the floor and you don't know what your future's going to be. So our futures right now are depending on, you know, on this vote. My vote is no. My vote is definitely no in

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a data center. That though that that's a blankets covering fences to muffle the sound. No, thank you. But anyways, I'm just keeping it short and sweet. So thank you very much. Thank you. [applause] >> Sorry. >> Good evening. My name is uh Al McDonald.

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I live on uh Hillwood Road in Fork River. Um, I was in municipal government my entire adult life and there were uh many things that I was part of,

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especially facility management. And before I retired, um, we had in the file and our five-year plan to develop another recreation center in in the town, an indoor facility, and we were

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going to pursue the why coming in to partner with us. I was a member of the New Jersey uh recreation and park association for 30 years and that was a topic of conversation that came up at every meeting that I went to at the

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state level because it was such a successful program that the Y that the Y was involved in. This is not something new. The Y does uh so many things very well as far as recreation, health and

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wellness, aquatics, all of the above. Uh the one thing in this town that seems to be I can't help it because I was in the business. I take notice of everything that's going on going on. The one thing that seems to be lacking, if anything,

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is an indoor recreation facility. And I know from experience that it's not just the initial cost and the upkeep, but running the programs can be

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an enormous cost. The wide does absorb a lot of that and they do it correctly. I'm kind of uh when I hear everybody talking about the taxes and I know I'm definitely in the minority if not the if not the only one who feels this way but

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um when I see opportunities fall by the wayside just like what happened with the board of education referendum going back was it about a year and a half ago [clears throat] >> when I saw that we were giving back when

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I say we I mean the community. We're giving back almost $40 million of free money. That's when I said, I guess I'm going to have to start going to meetings again because the last thing that I wanted to do when I retired was go to these meetings because they're the

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worst part of my job for 40 years. >> Was dealing with these meetings. >> So, it doesn't bother me to be the bad guy. You want to throw something at me? You got paper? Go ahead. You can do that. Um, this is an opportunity for us

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and to just base it on your tax dollars. I know everything, you know, taxes go up just like everything did, but think about what you were paying for taxes 10, 15, 20 years ago. And then think about what your house is worth >> now compared to 10, 15 or 20 years ago.

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Things don't get cheaper. They get more expensive. You're going to buy a new car, not going to pay the same thing that you did 10 years ago. That's just the way it is. An investment like this, and that's what it is. An investment in the town is very, very worthwhile. And

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if I'm and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it kind of bothers me to hear all of you say that you're going to vote. This is a a non-binding referendum. You're all going to automatically vote or some of you. the way

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>> if there's a if it's I mean if it's overwhelming no we can't >> I mean >> well yes you can >> well I mean [laughter] >> but that's beside but that's >> stop the cross talk please >> and uh if you take a look if you take a

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look behind me well me too I'm included in in this um the average age of the person in this room who's going to make the [clears throat] decisions because these are the people that vote Not everybody else comes out and vote.

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>> These people will be voting. >> So we are the people that are making decision for the next how many years? 40 50 60 years. >> Correct. >> That has to be taken into consideration and you are the only people who can take that into consideration.

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>> That's why that's why we're doing what that this whole thing is about that. It's about the next 50 years. That's right. >> Well, I hope it is. But when you say >> but again but but again said if it's o I mean that's just the way it works. I mean I understand I understand your point. Great points. That's it's that's

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precisely why we're we're pursuing something like this. But at the same time if it's overwhelming that's like >> well what do you mean by overwhelming? >> Well it's one vote's enough for me. [clears throat] So >> that's wrong. And not always the loudest

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voice in the room is the correct is the one to listen to. You have to hear it, but you don't have to listen to it. >> We We understand your point. >> We do. >> I appreciate your time. >> Quiet, please. >> Now, I'll leave before anybody >> car. [laughter]

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>> Hi, my name's Pat Seriani. I live on Amber Way. I heard you, Veronica, mention that um demographic study. I married 43 years. I have moved several times, corporate moves. I never once

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asked where the Y was. I was never told where a Y was. I was actually surprised that there is one in Tom's River. It's a 15-minute ride from here. If you want to go to it, just get on the Parkway, get off. It's

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right there. >> It's I I don't know anyone in in that I've ever heard say, "I gotta find the why. I got to find out where to swim. I got to find out where to do macra." [laughter] >> So that's that's my thought I want to

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give you. I have two questions. Someone said to me and I would like you to deny or confirm that the possibility of this. Why? We'll have sleeping quarters. No, >> no, >> no, >> no. >> You're not involved in it. I'm asking >> we were at the meeting.

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>> Okay. All right. >> All right. That's that. >> My second question is I heard all of you, you keep saying we didn't do this, we have to do that. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. You have three months.

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>> Three months to find all this out. You sat with these people. Some of these questions should have been first, not last. Not what discount we're going to get. And this is a nonprofit organization. >> Yes, it is.

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>> They will not pay taxes. >> Not property taxes. That's what I'm saying. So, you're incurring this bill that you're going to pass on to us and there is no property taxes coming back to help it. I get

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that. But other communities are getting other types of facilities like this that are private. Lifetime, they build their own thing. Indoor pool, outdoor pool, family things, picnics, people all over the place. It's theirs.

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They pay taxes when they come put their things up. Did you ask anyone? You don't have to answer me. Just [clears throat] a thought inside your heads. Did you ask anyone else to come in and compete? You're talking about competition. Where's the wise competition? >> Again, when they when they they

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approached us, and this is >> so that doesn't mean you don't go out and say, "Oh, maybe this is a good idea. Let's see who else wants to come in. >> Someone who's going to pay taxes." >> So, because the premise is we didn't want to sell the building and or sell the land. That's the premise. It was our building. So, they weren't willing to do

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that. [clears throat] >> But it's township land, >> right? >> And it's my land because I live here >> and you didn't ask me what I wanted. >> We're asking >> and now you are. But you've already put money to out out that you spent for this.

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>> This is This is normal. We did. This is normal. This is normal. We we we authorize engineering. uh >> but you should have had meetings about it beforehand to get a barometer of what the township wants and now it's the card pulling the horse.

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>> So again, we're put up here to make decisions like this when we get approached with all sorts of projects. We that's the job filter them out and decide how how best to allocate >> taxpayer money. And then I still go back to if you all feel that this is

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something this town needs, then I think you need to find the competition to go with it. Not just say, "Woo, it's the why." >> That's right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] >> That guy's been waiting. He's been waiting. >> He's been waiting. Which guy in the blue

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shirt? >> Next. >> Next. All right. Good evening. Thank you for this opportunity to speak and ask a few questions. >> State your name. >> John Saladino, Farnum Court, Fork River. >> Just have a few questions. So, you

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mentioned a $45 million bond. >> What would the annual cost to the town be that 45 minutes? >> Roughly $3.2 million. >> $3.2 million. Just for how long? >> 30 years. >> 30 years. So that's by the time we're

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done, we're talking about about a hundred million dollars or pretty close to it. >> 30. Yeah, probably something like that. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we're talking about leasing this building to the YMCA. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We maintain

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ownership. Excuse me. My my apology. We maintain ownership. [clears throat] They will be paying a a rent. >> No, they're not. It's so the we're still under discussion with some of that stuff. >> Okay. >> All right. So you you answered one of my

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questions already that the why approached the town in terms >> why >> the why approached the town in terms of this project. Okay. The town you got all of you thought it was something good to look into. Did the YMCA do any market

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research that they presented to you to state that the town the PE that the town >> would need something like this would want something like this? Did they present data market research? Was any of that shared on the website? That's on

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the website. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um, >> how much has been spent up until today on this project by the town? 164 >> 164,000. >> It was spent out of grant money that we

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received with the opioid abatement program that you have to do certain things with the opioid money to assess different mental health situations, different things in your community, what's going on as to what the needs are in your community. So, we use the opioid money that couldn't be used to offset municipal taxes. So, you get opioid

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money um small amounts that we get each year and that um we've been using it for demographic studies, market studies, community needs assessment studies, programs in our schools. That's what we've been using that for. >> Okay. So, how how much money how much

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money is does that amount to that we we have available to us? And >> we get we get appro a little bit shy of $50,000 a year. Oh, so we've using we've already used three years worth of that opio opioid money for the to up until today. >> Well, so the first year that the opioid

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money came out, there was like they gave you a a larger sum the first year and then from there we get about a little bit shy of 50,000 each year and it's declining. It's it is declining balance until >> Okay. >> I think 2038 will be the last check that

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we're going to receive. I mean, one check we're getting is only like $500 because it's all the different uh drug agencies that you know between Walmart, CVS um and all those uh Johnson and Johnson, all of them uh had an aotment that they had to put into any town that

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put in at the time when the lawsuit came out. Towns had to do um needs assessments and all those things in order to qualify to be even considered in the litigation in the lawsuit. >> Okay. So in the end, if that was opioid money,

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how would spending it on this project help reduce opioid use in Fork River? >> Because again, so what you do, what does what does your town need? So does your town does your town need um uh mental health services like an additional outcry of mental health services? Those

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kind of things. Do they need, you know, uh substance abuse centers? Those kinds of things. So th those are allowed to community needs assessments under the health guides and things to to um determine what you need in your communities. We do a lead program in the schools. I don't know what the acronym

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for lead right now mean >> enforcement against drugs. >> Thank you. Um you know for that we also uh help fund a program with the schools called the trust program. Those are for um okay >> children that needed that couldn't be in a normal classroom due to other things outside of their control. So we were

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funding that as well. So it's all based on studies and you know >> demographics and population things that that you do to determine what's needed and these are allowed uses. There's a whole exhibit >> to when you get awarded the money a whole exhibit of what you have to follow

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>> and we were allowed to spend $160,000 of opioid money for this project up until now. Okay. >> We have to report annually to the uh federal government. >> Okay. >> You're right. So, I'm so let me let me jump in if one second >> and I and I'm okay with that because we

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have to do that this stuff for this project if it goes through. But moving forward, this town has had um some pretty difficult times with drug use >> and suicide and overdose. I want to see that opioid money going to the things to

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mitigate because I, you know, at the county health department, I'm [snorts] doing these type of studies too, these assessments. I want to see that staying inhouse for us, not going out to do a survey. Um, we we know that these problems exist. It's part of the logic model for all the municipal alliances.

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So, moving forward, when we're past this, I want to see that opioid money staying here and helping our kids directly >> for mitigation. No, the administrator said it's going to be here till 2038. Am I wrong? >> On a declining balance. So each year you'll see the declining violence and we

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have been putting a lot of it into the youth and the programs working with the schools. There's been several programs that we've done with the schools to assist for those disadvantaged youth and children. >> Okay. >> But I definitely support spending money on youth. Spending on money on youth is

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money well spent. And I think perhaps more of it could be spent in this town for the youth. Um I pass basketball courts that are empty most of the time. It would be nice to see summertime tournaments, basketball tournaments

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sponsored by either the high school. I don't know if they go on at the high school. >> Recreation department does that. >> There there are if you go to the first lake where the basketball court is, you're lucky you can find a parking spot. They have such an active um for youth basketball needs to be fixed.

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>> Good. >> Okay. So, going back to the Sorry, we got a little bit off topic, but but with good answers, good good questions hopefully. So, the contract with the YMCA, um, >> we don't have a contract. >> Uh, I'm sorry, >> not yet. >> Okay. If we were to enter into a

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contract with the YMCA, >> is it going to be a 30-year contract like the bond is? >> Well, so >> are they going to be liable for there yet? We're we're still working on those details, and that's probably not going to that wouldn't be decided until after

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the whatever however the vote comes out. Well, what don't you think that the people should know that before? >> Well, we're discussing a term sheet. >> No, as a point of information before they vote. >> So, we're the best I can say is we're working on some of that stuff. That's all I can tell you. I don't have all

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those that information right now. >> Well, sounds like there's a lot of information that we probably should know at this point before we even talk about putting it on on a referendum. >> Um, [applause] Why not why not if if um if we're going

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to build this property, you know, why not um >> I mean, my question is why not lease it to them, but that's that we've already you've already answered that, I guess. Um All right. Um there's only one other

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thing. Oh. Oh, that's the other question. So, you me you mentioned how much it's going to cost us a year. What What was that number again? >> 3.2. 3.2. What percentage of of [clears throat] the town's annual budget is $3.2 million? >> Half a percent.

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>> Okay. All right. Um Okay. The other the other question is um you know what happens if the YMCA was to reneg on this and we have a [cough] building now that's we're paying you know 40 almost >> being worked on right now. That's being

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worked on right now. I don't have the answer right. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. >> Okay. My last comment is this and and I'm retired but the last company I worked for was 45 year old company very successful company I won't mention the name uh

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corporation multi multi uh worldwide corporation they decided to buy a competitor um afterund what I say 45 years in business I think it was 1865 or so they business

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and uh three years later they declared uh uh chapter 11 because they took on a debt. They bid off more than they could chew and they took on a debt that that they could not afford and I would hate to see that happen to my town that I

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Okay, thank you very much. >> Thank you for your comment, >> Mr. Bidnik. >> Sir, state your name. Uh, Richard Bidnik, Lacy, Citizens for Responsible Government. Nice to see everybody here tonight, mayor and township committee members. Okay, first of all, I mentioned

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this at the last meeting. Um, you still don't have answers to the questions and how could you even possibly, you look ridiculous putting something on the ballot where you don't have all the answers. I know you say you may have them by November, but quite frankly,

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that's just not good enough. And you know what? you've had plenty enough time to get all these answers together. You've been working on this for years. So, it's kind of like I just don't like it's again, it just seems kind of shady. That's my personal opinion. Okay. So,

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$96 million also is what it will cost to taxpayers over the 30 years of the bond. Now, a gentleman here was speaking before about, you know, how great this is. We have to look at this. I'm going to tell you something. And my I lost my two neighbors because of the high taxes.

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They had to sell their houses. I've heard another elderly woman here tonight say if you do this, she's going to lose her house. And you know what? I care about the people who live here and keeping them in their households. And that should be that is your primary responsibility to keep the taxes low so

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the people can continue to live here and thrive. And I find it outrageous after everything that's happened, especially with our school taxes, which none of you spoke out against that we are now, you're asking us to have to take on another financial burden. And I have to

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wonder who is going to benefit from this. And I know how politics works. One hand washes the other and give and take. And this is New Jersey. And I just have to question. You first went after that Johnson Controls project. And when you couldn't get that through, now you're

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trying this. And I'm sorry. I'm all about transparency and honesty in government and keeping our government officials accountable to we the people. And you know what? It's embarrassing. We come here and you don't have the answers. Oh, we're going to figure that out in a couple of months. No, that's

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not good enough. It just isn't. Doesn't cut the mustard. And the people here, you know what? We can demand tonight that they do not vote and put this on the ballot this year until you have all of the questions answered that we've all been demanding. It's ridiculous. I mean, really. And you're going to divide the

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town. I can tell you this right now. I'm all prepared to do whatever I have to do to defeat this. But you guys are going to be the ones who suffer because you're putting you don't have all the answers and I have even when I spoke to the executive director of the YMCA at the

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last meeting, what is the big rush? She told me she's not in a rush. You people are in a rush. And that is a concern to me because she told me personally, I asked her this and she said she didn't want it to have to fail and she felt that you guys were not prepared and

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you're not prepared and you embarrassed them. That's the way I looked at it because you didn't have all the answers to all of the questions and you should have at that last meeting. And I'm sorry people, somebody has to speak up for the taxpayers. I just don't feel that you have been doing that. You have your

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agenda again. Dearhead Lake, I'm going to keep saying this over and over again. That lake I pass every day. That is a recreational service that you should be supplying. And because the dam was done wrong because of incompetence, that lake has gone to hell. And it's unfortunate.

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We need to clean up the things that we already have and maintain the facilities that we have before we take on any other responsibilities. [applause] Thank you very much. Regina >> back your analytics.

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>> I need an elevator. >> Oh, that is very tall for you. >> I'll see if Tom >> Tom the rescue. See, >> this is not a good >> Thank you, Tom.

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>> Thank you. That's >> I'm sorry. They say you shrink as your age. What What can you do? Um Regina Desenza, um Sunrise Beach. Um reading and listening to your public question and explanatory statement. facility

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pursuant to a negotiated agreement. Well, the public has no idea what this negotiated agreement is going to contain. And that's what we've wanted to know since April, since you held the little community forum. We were also led to believe that there was a possibility

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this was a rental situation. And now Kevin finds out it's a freebie. I'm totally totally against anything else that raised my taxes. I have nothing against the YMCA. I believe it's a great institution, but it's also a Christian institution. Whether you think so or

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not, it says so on their website. There's supposed to be separation of church and state. I think everybody better go back and look at all the details of the Constitution. I'm done. >> Thank you for your comments. [applause]

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Just please state your name. >> An Smith, Lacy Township. Um, this evolved in a rather crazy way and I'm still very unsettled by it. >> I'm told.

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>> Thank you. >> I still have a few years before I totally shrink. >> Thank you. So about [clears throat] a year ago or so, we put out a questionnaire for the

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uh township about would you like a YMCA? And I myself took that and oh yes, I'd like a YMCA, but we weren't given the facts. So you have an overwhelming yes. Okay. And you ran with it. All right.

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Now, if you look on social media, you can see that I would say roughly off the cuff, threequarters of them don't even realize that it would be affecting their taxes. Okay? And if you look in this room, sorry for those that are not,

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we're all retirement age. Okay? That's why we're here because we're on fixed incomes. Okay? What I think you're banking on is the young transplants, implants that are coming in here with more money than we

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have and probably working two incomes, two households and one household and need babysitters and need things for their children to do, which is all well and good. There is a Y 15 minutes away. Okay. And I think it's honorable that

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you're all here saying if we don't if the township doesn't want it, we're a no. We're a no. But in the back of your mind, you have to know if you're watching social media that the young people with money, they want it. Okay?

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So, I don't feel at this point that you're ready to put this on a referendum when, as I quoted myself before, threearters of the people out there on social media do not even know it's going to affect their taxes. So, I would hope

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that you would come back with this resolution with everything spelled out before it goes to a referendum. Why? >> Who said that's not possible? >> Somebody out in the audience said you

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don't have to answer them. >> Whose side are you on? >> Do you have an answer? >> Oh, so we're prepared to vote on a resolution tonight. And um >> why? >> But you don't have the information and you >> We're going to have We're going to get as much information as we can between now and the election day. If you feel

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that the that you're not provided the right information or you don't like information, you could vote no. >> [clears throat] >> That's a hedging a bet. >> Okay. Because I just got done explaining to you that you are hoping >> I'm not even against hope.

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>> We understand that that >> you've invested a lot for something that you're unsure of. >> Well, so we understand that people come from different econ economic backgrounds, different age groups, and and there's always been a a need in the town for an indoor rec center for we get it all the time for recreation.

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>> We had one >> minus a pool. We had one. I grew up here. 1971. Okay. >> Popcourt. What? On the St. Pas. >> No, >> I'm talking about the center. >> We still have a community center just in a different building, but it's not what

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a indoor recreation facility would. >> Well, the one we had was more like one. We had functions there. We had parties there. We had a stage there. We had more there. >> Well, and you could do that at the at the current building that we have as well. But you a Y is entirely different

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than a I know that >> meeting gathering place. >> I know that. Yeah. >> Okay. But I'm as far as giving recreation, you could put recreation there. Have that as its hub if it's inconvenient on your property back here. What I'm saying is we have a recreation.

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I don't feel the need for a Y. It's mostly it looks like people want pools. And again, I'll have to echo everybody else. Why would you do it for free? It's bad business. Bad business. So, they came to you. Maybe they were looking for a deal and they obviously found someone

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to bite, but we can't. We absolutely can't. And I don't know. I still have to say I don't know why you're putting it, okay, on the ballot without all the facts because people are going to come and they're going to vote and you know

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it erroneously because and then go, "Oh, I didn't know that." If we don't put it on the ballot, you don't have a voice. Like the mayor said, if you if you feel that it's not if it's incomplete, I would encourage you to vote no. If you feel like you don't have the information

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>> leaving the room tonight, it's a no. So why are you going through with it? >> Don't you want a voice? >> I'm here speaking my voice. >> Okay. I want you to have a voice and I want you to vote on it >> and I want everyone to vote on it. Yes,

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your taxes will go up. I didn't ask for this. >> I'm saying it on TV. >> Yeah. >> So, people need to educate themselves. Look at the information. >> Okay. And and then you can vote no. >> You know, like I said, I've been here a

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long time and I've seen things try to be pushed through and this is what it feels like and I don't like it. Okay. I want to be totally informed. Okay. And you got to weigh it. Weren't we taught that? You got to weigh everything. Would you rather it went through with no input

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from the town? That's what it sounds like. >> No, I think it should be dead in the water tonight. >> Okay, [applause] >> thank you, >> Barry. Then you Barry, >> state your name. >> Sure. Harry Bender somewhere in Lacy Township. We're not allowed to say it

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anymore. Um, a lot of I'm First of all, you know where I stand on this. Um, I'm dead set against >> Oh, dead set against it. Are you kidding? >> Please. Anyway, um, the point hasn't been brought up that I've been talking

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about. We've overdeveloped this town to the point where when I come home from work, occasionally it'll take me two or three lights before I can make a right turn on on Route Nine and get to where I live on Bay. Well, I can't say it. Sorry, >> historic. >> Anyway, um when they first started

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talking about the YMCA, it was great for the people of Lacy Township and oh, it'll supply all these things, but we're not in a vacuum here, okay? People are going to be coming from out of town to to use the YMCA, probably from south because to me, I don't understand why

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the YMCA would come looking to build another facility when they have one 15 minutes away. I mean, how many drugs stores have we seen go out of business in this town because they built so many together? You know what I'm saying? So, uh, it it doesn't make sense to me. And a comment was made that, you know, we're

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not you're not going to tell anyone how they should vote, etc. Well, I think the little advertisements we have in the back of the of the room uh certainly goes against that. Um, you know, the whatever theund >> What do you mean?

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>> Right there. >> YMCA. >> It's It's an advertisement for YMCA. >> You know what? Because I made that comment. >> Yes, I know. >> Yes. And I never no matter what pictures are up here or anything else, you know me well enough. You know, I'm

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not. And you know, I don't know how many times he said, you know, the last person asked why. I'll tell you what, this was in motion when I came on here, right? >> We spent a lot of times been doing it. We're working on a term sheet, which I

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wish we had the answers already, but now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty of the term sheet. Okay. I want I would like to I mean I've only been on here a year and a half. Okay. Would I wish we had more

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information tonight? Of course I do. Hopefully we'll have as much information as possible by November. And if we don't just just just hear me out. It's my I'm going back because it's like Peter said if we don't have the

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information don't vote for it. I don't blame you because you know what? I don't want to be dealing with this next year or the year after because you know what? There's a lot of business we got to handle. There's a lot of needs.

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If you want this, great. If you don't, that's fine with me because somebody asked before, you know, with the uh non-bonding resolution. Kevin yelled it out in the back. only takes one vote.

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Whichever way it goes, the majority is who I'm here for. Because just like many of you out there, you know, I'm also a retiree. I might be one of the younger ones. I'm 70. >> Not yet.

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>> Well, okay. Monday. Um, but the thing is is we just vote with your heart, learn what you got to learn, and let's move on because there are other things we got to do. And there's a lot of things we got to look at. And

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the shame of it is is I think we can learn a lot in the next three months. I want to see the why people here so that the answers can be given, but I don't want to be dealing with this again next year. We thought we even had

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a little more time to put the get this question together and when Veronica had checked with the county, they gave her the deadline date and that's where we're at. So, it's either okay, the room wants us to put it. You know what the one thing is? is is when I ran three years

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ago, I only ran for one reason. I was born here. I love it here. I love the town. I'm not up here for the glory or the money. And I honestly believe in my heart the only right thing to do anytime you're spending any huge amount of money like

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this is let you people make the decision. And whatever you say is what I'm going to hold to. And that's not debatable. Right? That's not debatable. And it's the same with a few quite a few other people up here. If

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you don't have the information, it's like anything you do in life. Everybody keeps pointing at the age of the people in this room. We're not youngsters. We've learned. We've lived life. If you don't like what you see, don't vote for it. Because that is what's wrong with

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politics. People do not learn. They don't pay attention. And when they go in the booth, they don't always make the right decision. If you don't like it, don't vote for it. If you like it, you vote for it.

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>> That's not what I was talking about. >> Please stop the cross talk. >> Okay. >> What I was talking about is advertisement for the YMCA in the back of our >> uh municipal. But the why I I mean you know as well as I do most >> but it indicates that

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>> most people like the people on the township building issue >> want the YMCA. That's what it indicates for me. >> Sorry. Okay. So we >> we've gotten blamed before because we haven't been transparent. We don't have any information out. We're not doing this. We're not doing that. So we tried to put things out on banners on our

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website and whatever. And you're still not happy. I don't get it. >> You wanted us to be more transparent. >> That's advertising for the YMCA. >> It's not something neutral. Wyatt Wyatt >> it's advertising for the YMC website all that information >> right

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>> like this >> ma'am I'm sorry you got to come to the mic >> no that he like disappeared >> he he you know he I I understand and I believe exactly what he says but this is advertising for the YMCA inside our

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building okay so if it's neutral and there's you know it's going to be decided by the to me that that doesn't go that direction. I mean, years ago >> when the Home Depot was coming in, someone used to come in wearing a Home Depot hat. Okay. Same kind of thing.

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That's what this is for me. All right. I just >> My vote's going to be no. And anybody I can talk into into voting knows, I will do so. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] Go for >> Go for the Eagle.

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>> Get Tony. Oh. >> Oh, no. Okay. Okay. Just state your name for the record. >> My name is Elaine Brandt and um from Lacy Corker River. All right. My question is I had a bunch of questions. A lot of people answered my questions which was really good. I don't

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understand how you all you people are committee can put this out there without having all the information. When you go out and you buy something, what do you look at? You look at your description. What am I buying? What am I

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purchasing? Did any of you really look at the description and say, "Okay, we have to know that description before putting it out there for a vote in November." You're putting a vote out there, but you're not all these questions. You're not on not all these questions are on the internet that that

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you're up here admitting saying, "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know." How could you not know and put it out there for us to vote on? Because as Bob as Bob said, we're tr we don't want this to carry into next year. We [snorts] >> Yeah, but well that you know what?

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That's not our problem. That's your problem. You gave this to us. >> Again, we we've been saying it all night. If you if you don't have the information and vote no. I I don't know. >> Yeah, but not everybody knows this. We do, but not every not I just said not everybody knows that.

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>> Who all knows that you don't know all this stuff that everybody's asking? >> Madam, there's a number there. It's $45 million. It's going to cost that. >> I'm talking about all the other little questions that everybody's asking and you you don't know all the answers. Look, I know you're not going to know every little answer, but there's a lot

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of I don't knows here. A lot. How could you do? >> We're working on the term sheet, right? >> Yeah. But let me cuz I'm going to answer you. I'm going to actually be able to answer your question. >> There's >> We're working on a lot of the details now back and forth with them.

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>> We want the answers. We want I myself want the why at the every meeting between now and and then because if there is questions we know these questions are coming up this >> Yeah. But you're voting on this for tonight to go on November but you don't

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have those answers. >> We're hope >> madam if we >> the questions we learn the questions as you ask them sometimes. Okay. Like the last meeting there were some questions we didn't have the answers to. >> We hear you. We write them down. It's on

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tape. We're hope we want to have all these answers bought for November. And to say people don't know, I don't do social media. I do know what's on it, but I don't do it and I never will because the thing with social media is

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50% of it's correct and only 50% of that's accurate. How do you think? >> So, so 25% of it's accurate. But as far as people knowing, >> how do you think a lot of people know? How do you think a lot of people knew? >> Social media, right? >> Well, yes, and I know that I'm not I'm

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not knocking social media for that reason. >> In the last couple weeks, I'm not even on social media. I don't care if I'm out of Tisha Scholes, >> around town, >> more and more people. I grew up in this

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town. >> I know a lot of people. We all do. I've never been barged with so much in my life. And these are people that usually don't even know. And you know what? I'm glad they're paying attention. I'm glad

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they're asking questions because you know what? And I keep telling them, some of them I know are voters that don't go vote. And I tell them, go in November and vote because it's very important. But I'm actually shocked at this juncture, some of the people that are

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coming out of the woodwork and asking questions and different things like that. And I'm sure the whole committee wants to see the why here to be able to answer some of these questions that even we may not even know. >> Could you imagine what it would be like if we didn't have a question out for the

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people? At least, you know, now it would be $45 million. >> No, I understand. And so all the people in my own humble opinion, I've I've been accused of a lot not h not being humble. It would absolutely pass if there was no question

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because then everybody or a lot of people wouldn't know what it costed. So by having this basic information out there, it gives you a voice. >> Okay. The other question I have and this just got brought up tonight. Um, how much of the YMCA

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is going to be about drug addiction besides our schools who really should be our schools for year? You know, we didn't have a Y. So, our we rely on our schools for all of that. And Veronica mentioned that money, the opioid money. How much of how much is the YMCA going

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to deal with drug addiction and drug but you using the opioid money that we're that what is it a grant? >> It's called a protective factor. When kids have something to do, >> it it keeps them away from nefarious activity. That's not That's right. How

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long you had this money for? How long have you had this money for? >> Since 2017 when when the litigation started. >> What have you done with that money for our crisis in town, which is horrible or horrible. What have you done with that

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besides givingund how much money? 160. She did explain that she we we run two programs for our school system. >> We run programs with the school. >> I know about the school systems programs >> and we also run programs. >> My granddaughters tell me it's baloney. Well, >> well, I would respectfully disagree.

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>> Well, >> I got the police chief back there and I know >> I'm talking about a lot of things that are going on. >> It's not being addressed like it should be. I'm just saying. I'm just saying that. But the $168,000 to put to the YMCA that should have been

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totally for this town for that is unacceptable. >> Hard to argue that >> unacceptable, [applause] please. >> Uh uh Robert Samuel. I live right around the corner. So I just want to say it's been brought

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up a lot. You know, I know a lot of people here are of older age and it's been mentioned that, you know, that this demographic doesn't like it. So, as a young transplant who has only been here about four years, my wife grew up here. I hate this idea. I'm not going to use

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this facility. I have a young daughter. I would just there's never a use for it for us, frankly. I think we have a lot of benefits already in the community. You know, I I basically wrote up a quick, you know, um Lacy already we already have a lot of youth programs for

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all ages, plenty of recreation spaces spaces, uh plenty of homes that own their own pool, we have the public lakes, which I'll get into later, and we have proximity to plenty of beaches. Many of the services that the YMCA that there are some they don't have that we could benefit that I've heard that, you know, I think the YMCA in general is

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okay, but we already have a lot of things that they could provide. it's going to be a duplicate of things that we're already paying for or other organizations provide. Um, and I just don't understand, you know, really why this there so much of momentum came up to this. Um, in my life

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personally passing, I've talked to a lot of people already about this idea. I've heard, you know, Facebook personal talk to people and I've heard a lot of people that like it. Not a single person actually lives here. They live in the local communities. They are not going to be paying the taxes for it. I looked up

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this this um survey I guess that was for the interest of it. I looked on Jersey online. Was that is that the one correct? >> On the township website. >> It was what? >> It's on the township website. >> Okay. But the Jersey online talked about it and they Jersey Shore online and mentioned I guess that there was a

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survey that included people that had nothing to do with Lacy. >> Yeah. There were people surveyed that did not live here. I disagreed with that but it happened. So that's that's a little disingenuous when you're talking about the interest because the people that are here are the ones that are paying for it. Who cares what everybody else in the area is? >> That was my opinion of it.

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>> Yeah. >> So um >> Yeah. So that's a that's one thing. Um for the child care services, we already have several. My daughter goes to one. They're very affordable. I I work at the base and I thought for the longest time

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they provided very, you know, the most affordable and I found out actually no, I could get it better in town. Now you're adding competition that may actually bring to these some of these places to the brink. They work on very thin margins and some of them they've been here for decades and this is going to be very close to them. So that's

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that's a major issue. Um what if the what if this uh goes under? What are you going to do with the facility? It's happened before. YMCA's I mean the town's ever won alone. I think what they had to close one of their pools or something because they couldn't they couldn't >> pools is closed. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, there goes like one of the

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biggest benefits of having this is there goes the pool. I mean, um, location, you want to put it right over here behind the Waw Wa area. This whole That's already tight as hell. I mean, I drive by there all the time constantly. I'm

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potentially getting into a car accident from people pulling in out. Kids are always constantly on the move. I don't think it's a good location if you're going to put it alone. I agree. You said you want to get it a different area from Route 9, but I don't think that's the spot. Now, it's like if that's the land you have, well, I'm sorry. That's I

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don't I just don't think it's a good fit. Um all three load roads are lead um to a tight location. From Lacy Road, you got to turn a left that leads to often a traffic buildup. Um from Manchester, like I mentioned, it's very heavily trafficked. And um you know, the other

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areas of the newly built um housing, you know, apartments or whatever. Um business benefits, I've heard, you know, touting that there's a benefit to businesses. You did a study. I don't know the specifics of the study, but just from kind of looking at it, if a lot of people coming here are not from Lacy and they're from outside the area,

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they're probably not going to go down nine. They're going to come from the Parkway. What businesses are between where the YMCA is and the Parkway? JT's Bagel Hut, a gas station, and a liquor store >> and a vet. >> That's it. Well, and what >> a vet. >> A vet. They're not [snorts] going to go

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shop, right? They're not going to go to like where a lot more of the business is. They're just going to go in and out. I mean, it's not in the end. It's they're really not going to be touching much. I love JTs. They already get a lot of businesses. You know who's going to get the most business? Wawa. Guess who doesn't need the most business? Waw wa.

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They're already packed. Everybody loves it. You're just going to make it even worse and more congested. Um, you know, um, and everybody, you know, just and couple things I want to mention is, you know, potential benefits. You know, it's already been mentioned, but

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you know, number one, like things that we could do with this money instead, you know, clean and fix the lakes. We have the gorgeous lakes and, you know, exceptional one, I believe, you could swim in. Maybe, you know, that's the blow. >> You can swim in three. We're the only I take I oversee the compliance for those

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lakes every week between Memorial Day and Labor Day. They're tested. We have the cleanest lakes in the whole county. We have three of the licensed lakes. So we have Forest Row Avenue, Lake Barnagate where the Wibbit is and Bamber. In my memory, I think one of

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them exceeded one time in the last two years. >> But I believe I think most of them don't they have there several signs that say like about not swimming due to the contagion. >> No, I've seen them recently. >> It's only Deerhead. It's not Deerhead is not a recognized bathing beach. And

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there if if it does get to a certain level, we do have to put an advisory note out once in a while, but it you know it there are limits as Mr. Kerl says that then we do have to close. But we haven't been closed as he said in I think over two years. Okay. But sometimes the bacteria level if we don't

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get the response back from the lab quick enough we might have to especially after a rainfall put a note out to advise them. >> Ocean countyalth.gov go look at the last three years of >> all posted. >> All posted. >> Okay. Well, you know, I think that and then the schools that's mentioned I I know I'm running out of time, but it's

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um just to finish my statement that the schools are important. I constantly I know you keep hiking the taxes about that. I know a lot of it has to do with the state and it's not at our level, but I think the school funding should be more priority, not losing sports, etc. You know, that is a more benefit than what the YMCA is going to do in the long

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run. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Thank you. [applause] What about Steve with the East? >> What about you? >> State your name for the record. >> Lynn Foley hearing Lenoka Harbor.

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And I'm not in this particular age group, but I'm I'm married to one. [laughter] >> That's great. >> I'm not opposed to a YMCA. I just want to get that out. I'm not opposed to a referendum.

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What I'm hearing everybody say, and maybe I'm just a simple person from Wisconsin and calls the spade a spade, is it sounds like you're looking for us to see if we want to continue on. Not are

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we going to vote for 45 million right now? >> Right. Right. Should we continue on? >> And that should be the referendum vote. I know you don't want to continue on with this next year, but you've got to give us a chance because you've got

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renters in town that probably don't care if they're coming to meetings. But what they may not realize is that if their property owner has to pay more taxes, what's that going to do to their rent and increase their cost of living in

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town? So, I'm asking if you are going to do a referendum in November, you tone it down because I understand market studies and I don't disagree that things came out of what we can do better in this town. It just seems like this is too

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quick. And you're asking us, should we continue to go forward and it potentially is going to cost $45 million or should we stop right now? >> Yes or no? So, just take that into

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consideration, please. And thank you for your time. Give your comments. >> Tony, >> state your name. >> Tony Rosolei, Sunrise Beach. I don't want to talk about the Y. >> You can't. >> I want to talk about the land. >> Okay. >> That particular piece of land is owned

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by the township. What are the dimensions? >> It's like 10 acres. I don't know. 10 acres >> approximately. >> Okay. Now, the Johnson control deal, >> we were looking to build a commu, we were looking to build a community center, please >> idea

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>> at the same land. >> Yes. >> Okay. What happens if we don't utilize that land? What do you see? And you see because both of you are on a planning board at one time, right? >> What do you see in the future for that

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land? Is it in jeopardy of something? Well, answer the question, guys. You want to be honest. >> So, you don't know what you can't predict the future that far out. So, I mean, I've said it many times before. If you would have asked anybody even 10 years ago that was on this committee, or

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maybe not 10, 20 years ago, whether that the township would be building affordable housing units and be responsible for building them, they would have laughed at me. But here we are. So, you don't you don't Well, I'm just I'm not saying that that's could happen. You just don't know. That's

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you're you're trying to pre-plan. I've said this a bunch of times in my comments. One of the biggest complaints that I've gotten over the years is how the township is developed. I have you know we did not have a historic district. Um just the way some of the the the properties on route I we did not

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have a town center for one reason or another. That is the literally the last piece of property that the township owns of any type of size. We really don't own anything anymore. And that is the only spot that you could possibly maybe do some sort of town square town center. It's adjacent to Gilly Park. This this

400
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area town is essentially the center of town at this point. It's in close proximity to the schools. It's Gilly Park is where everything occurs. And so that's it. That last that 10 acres is the last piece of property to address some of these issues. It doesn't mean

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that it that uh it can't stay vacant for the next 20 years or 50. You just don't know what's going to happen. Why we're doing is this pre-planning now. But if again people don't want it, you're given you're given the opportunity to vote on it. >> Again, are you afraid of some developer

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is going to come in and put us on it? >> I'm not afraid of anything. We we get presented with stuff. We we have to make decisions in real time about whether to go forward on different projects. We've done this with Orstead on the windmills. We do it constantly with the whole tech

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and the power plant. this is these these types of decisions and being involved are are that's what the job is and and so that's why this is being presented. >> Tony, I know because you addressed me and Steve and of course we're both still

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on the planning board and you know he's lived here most of his life. I've lived here all my life. So yeah, we've seen a lot of change and knowing how the state operates my answer is yes. Yes, I am in fear.

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>> So am I. >> Um, you know, because I've seen even before I was involved at this level through the years, the state force things down our throat. Luckily, through the work of especially Veronica and Steve with the uh numbers

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that were required to have a low income housing and multif family dwellings, they've gotten that number down and we should be good till 2035. The problem is the state keeps moving

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the goal line, >> right? >> And as time goes, if they tell us we need another couple hundred affordable housing units and we have land sitting vacant.

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>> Just let me just so finish your Yeah, go ahead. Finish >> vacant. It could be in jeopardy >> right >> now. Am I in fear of that? Yes. Could it happen? Maybe, maybe not. But part of the thing is is right now we are the elected officials up here and we're

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trying to look ahead and try to make some good decisions on the best thing forward for the town because you know growing up here you know the biggest thing any of us all here and we all why'd you move to Lacy? It's a great place. When I was in grade school there

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was 4,000 people in town. Now there's 4,000 kids in the school system. There's almost there's 30,000 people in the town. So progress we don't have much land left and the state as we know that you know

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recently some other things have come up. We do have say but if the state the federal government want to do something different they just walk right over us. >> So just just to piggyback on that and it's not just about affordable housing. My point is you don't know what could go

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there. So the state could come in and say, >> you know, you have to use solar power to electrify your buildings now and then we put a solar field there or we have to or uh or we're [snorts] not allowed to use the dump in the back anymore because that's brownfields or something like that and now we have to move the whole recycling center. It's not that that

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would be the worst thing to happen, right? If there's a solar field there or we have to move the dump, it's just not ideal. I again uh it's moving very very quick and there had to be some other reason to want to move there quickly and I'm looking at it back in the early 60s 287

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got cut through South Planefield. Okay. My uncle had a house that he was going to build. 287 took an eminent domain. He put in a foundation. He got paid three times the money by the state because all he had he put in the f I know I mixed

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the cement to put in the cinder blocks three times the amount the state had to pay him only because he put in a foundation. Is there something we can do to protect it? Is there something outside of the box that we could do to say no it's partially developed it's partially developed. We're going to put

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a community center just not now. >> There's stuff you could do. You could sell it to the county. It's like I said it's not ideal. Well, the county may not buy it, but that's beside the point. It's not It's not ideal. That's what I'm >> All right. I was just looking. >> It's our last piece of property. Period. >> If there was another way to protect it long range until we >> You're right.

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>> Well, even even with a park that's already developed, the state can come in and tell you you're putting your So, so there's, you know, if the state wants to make these decisions, they're going to make these decisions. You see some of the legislation that they're trying to take over local zoning. >> So, this again, not to keep harping on

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this, but Veronica is right. So there there's legislation pending right now for the for a a uh for churches and nonprofit organizations to put to what was they're allowed to exceed >> they're they're the the local zoning I

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think is eight units per acre on multif family and they're they're they're proposing to go to like what was this crazy number 20 >> 20 unit >> and and and go to four and go to four stories. So, we're not So, it hasn't passed yet, but it's but they they're

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they put this stuff in. >> That would supersede local zoning. That's the point of all this. It's the last ch I understand if you don't want to vote for it. It's the last piece of property in the township to to do any kind of town center or town square. That's it. If we if everybody decides

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you don't want that again, that's every that's the town. Unless we can come up with some kind of a scheme to beat the state, we got to be creative. >> Try to be creative, guys. Thank you. >> Thank you, Tony. >> Anybody who did it.

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>> There you go. >> You were nice. Tony, >> state your name. >> Dennis Costa. >> Quiet, please. >> Live in for River. >> Costalakis. >> Italian name.

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>> Okay. So, I grew up in Norc. >> No, >> no lakes, no swimming pools, nothing but cement. My father and mother took me to the YMCA and that's where I learned how to swim. So, YMCA is a great place.

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We moved. I was married. I moved to Tom's River. I lived there for over 50 years. There's a YMCA in Tom's River. I was just my I worked, my wife didn't work. We had two children. We couldn't afford to join the YMCA.

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Can the people in Forket River after paying $3 400 more a year in taxes pay an additional amount to join? And do you even know the amount of money does it cost for a yearly membership for a family of four?

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Well, one of the things in the term thing that we counter offered, which we haven't had their response to yet, is we're not happy at their initial offer to us. >> Well, I think they they got it. They got >> What is the number? 10% 10%.

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>> What is the number to join a family of four for a year? >> This is what I'm asking because >> we couldn't we wanted to go to the YMCA, please. Whatever it is, we're we're working because right now the initial is 10% off

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>> the membership plus priority to Lacy residents and Lacy businesses. >> It's like 6575 $6575 a month. So is >> just okay. And like I said, >> you understand what he's saying.

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>> If I don't have the right exact numbers, I'd rather not say them because numbers are being thrown around in our meetings. Sometimes numbers are thrown around. That's one of the term things that we're actually in process now because we're trying to get the exact numbers. We

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don't like some of what they're proposed. So, we're counter offering. >> I understand that. But the overall income >> I'd like to see And when I was grow and we had our kids, we couldn't afford to go to the YMCA.

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How do we know that the people in for River are even going to be able to afford to go to the YMCA at this point? We we don't know that because >> what is the average income and what is the price >> hopefully for them to go? >> You have fantastic programs here. I

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mean, you have summer programs for kids. They're they're all reasonable prices. The YMCA is probably three times that amount of money that we were reading online on how much it is to bring kids to camps here. Why Why would they go to the YMCA and

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pay three times the amount of money that they could go in for River and go to these programs that they have here? I'm trying to figure out what's going to support the YMCA and the money the YMCA is making on the money coming from the people who are paying to go. Do we get a

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percentage of any of that? Do we make any money on on this? Is there any >> I don't have answers for this. >> Is is there any upside to the YMCA as far as money goes? >> We're working on that right now >> for the for the people here. >> We are working on it. You know, we

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presented them with our working on it. >> I mean, I would love to have bring my kids to the YMCA. I lived there 50 years. It was just too much money for us. >> So, you know, what is the the annual cost to join it? and can we afford it?

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That's that's that's what I I think we should find out. >> And I agree with a thousand% because this is some of the answers we want to get over the next month or so. >> You guys have great programs here and they're very reasonable. >> I don't I don't disagree is essential. >> And this is why I want to make sure that

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we get all these answers in the next month or so. So, we got plenty of time to hash it out. >> I mean, it would be nice to know what's going on. And I think that should be put out there saying this is what it's going to cost you to go >> on our website as we get information it

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keeps getting updated. I I understand all that >> and each each time which I expect a lot of questions tonight and they're great questions and each time we're going to get more and more answers and some things we're working on and that's why I

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say I expect a lot of information to come out within the next month or two with a lot of these answers and I expect people to go and vote

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with what >> well if the information gets out there and the people know where to look and how to look for it >> and if you don't get the information you need >> you shouldn't be voting for it >> no >> because I'm not I'm not telling you to vote for it or not vote for it because

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I'll tell you what I know myself if I'm going in and voting on a question >> that's me but that's not everyone >> that's correct >> and you're exactly correct Because I I said this earlier people don't a lot of people don't pay attention to what

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they're doing and that's why the questions >> that's for the problem who for people who care and people who pay more taxes than other >> and that's why we're hoping as much information gets out there. So I said earlier I'm getting hammered with questions and stuff about it that are

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people that I never even expected that have been paying attention and hopefully this will get people Okay. >> Energized. Let me put it that way. Whichever way it goes. >> Okay.

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>> All right. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Who didn't? >> I was just going to say that the ones that haven't spoken come up. >> I'm getting I'm getting all the ones that haven't spoken. >> Other hands going back up again. >> I don't even get >> Dennis Dodora, Sheffield Place.

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>> I didn't come prepared with notes or chip notes or anything like that. I was hoping to just hear what you had to say. I'm a little disappointed that I haven't heard a lot of what I would hope to have heard, but in answer to a couple of issues, a couple of comments people have

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made and stuff, for example, the 10 acres you've got sitting idle, put a fence around it, put a dozen of the township uh pieces of equipment on it, and incorporate it into the current municipal complex. that's maybe some maybe they won't bother you under those

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circumstances. The other thing I wanted to ask was if if the township attorney or the chief financial officer of the town here has have they analyzed this project and given you advice on whether

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or not it's legally a good idea, financially it's a good idea and worst case scenario, what happens if this thing collapses? five or 10 years down the road, what's the total liability for the community? >> We're not under contract yet. Um, we're

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waiting to see how the vote goes. Um, or the the the uh to the ability to what was your third question? >> The clause if they close, there is going to be I'm going to say a a clause in there with regards to I'm going to use

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the word termination or you know, it's it's being negotiated right now. >> [sighs] >> Okay. >> Okay. I'll I'll accept that for the time. The the other thing I was going to ask is have you have you thought about any

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other options out of thinking out of the box about this project? Are there other ways to implement something like this that takes the liability and the uh the debt and and the long-term risk off of something like this? So that is part of

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discussions in terms of of uh uh getting grants like that. None of that stuff is off the table. Um but I don't >> I'm talking about the model. >> That's what I'm saying. So there we're still negotiating some of this stuff that we have not there's not we've not closed a door on say stuff like um

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advertising or naming rights and stuff like that. But I don't have any of those details right now. Okay. if it goes through. Um, the young lady that mentioned this is really a is is we're trying to get the pulse whether we should continue this. That's really the let me >> that's the best way to phrase it.

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>> I don't want to take a lot of your time. Let me throw one thing up at you. There's a community in North Jersey, Sussex County. They have a tremendous community complex there. It sits on a lake. It's have has a beautiful uh

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three-story building with restaurants. There's all kinds of community service. They have all of their events uh throughout the year on the complex, but it's incorporated as an HOA, a homeowners association. If you want to

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belong to it and you want to take advantage of the services and such, you become a member of the HOA and you pay dues to the HOA. It doesn't come out of your property taxes. Why not a model like that for the people who want this

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this complex? Let them pay for it. Let them be responsible as members of a an association or an HOA to to pay for it and to support it over the long term. And the rest of us who can't afford this, who don't want it, but if somebody

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else wants it, fine. Let them pay for it, not us. And what I'm suggesting is start thinking about out out of the box. Look at other models. There are other models out there. Call somebody in Sussex County in Sparta, New Jersey, and

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ask them the questions. How did they do it? And how do they continue to do it year after year and financially viable at that point? That's all I'm asking. There seems to be a a very narrow frame here of what you're envisioning. There's

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got to be more things that you could consider to make this less ownorous to the people of this community. The other thing I would say, well, I well I'm here for the few minutes. Why not do something about kill two

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birds with one stone? [clears throat] You need a new administrative complex. People have been complaining that for years. Why not incorporate a a new administrative building and a and attach a community center to it with a pool and

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a botchi ball court and a pickle ball court, whatever you want to put in it >> and put it on west of the Garden State Parkway just like Berkeley Township. Look at all the traffic we could we could eliminate if you put the complexes

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on the west west side of the parkway. That's initially where the high school was supposed to go and the state of New Jersey said no into the pine lands. Not that we're not allowed to build out there in the village. >> Yeah. And that was what 40 years ago >> and the state comes back to you every year and tells you you got to do this, you got to do that. Why don't you turn

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around and tell the state what you're going to do? Why don't you tell them this is our future, not what you want it to be? This is our community. This is not the state of New Jersey. This is not Trenton. Not yet anyway. and it's

465
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certainly not Washington, God forbid. So, I'm asking you to please think out of the box on something like this. There's got to be other options. There's got to be other ways. If you if you absolutely insist upon moving ahead with

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this, regardless of whether you got a non-binding referendum or whatever you call it, think about other possibilities, other ways to maybe, you know, skin this cat and and maybe maybe like I said, maybe

467
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incorporate other wish wish list items into it. But give give us a break because like they said, we can't afford something like this. This is This is going to kill us. It's It's just too much. >> All right. Thank you.

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>> Thank you for your comments. [applause] >> Yes, that's you. >> Be quick. Pat Doyle, Fork of River Beach. Um I didn't intend to speak tonight, >> but I read the question. Um, this is not ready to be voted upon

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tonight. It is a skewed, misleading question. It does not contain >> I'm sorry. This is not should not be ready to be voted upon tonight. It is a skewed question. Very skewed. It is

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misleading in my opinion. And you're right, Veronica. There's all the information in the world on the website. A lot of people I know people that don't even know how to get on the website. Should they? Yes, they should. But they don't. This is what will happen. They're

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going to walk up to this voters's booth. They're going to read the question in its current form and they're going to say, "Oh, yeah. I'd like a YMCA." [laughter] without all information. Please do not vote on this tonight. I don't know how everyone else feels about

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that. We are not ready for this as a vote. if you're going to vote on it. And I also feel that we're not ready for this. This is a 90 m an hour train to me right now. And it's frightening how fast it's

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moving. This is a complex commercial transaction. As I pointed out before, much more needs to be sorted out. You're not going to do it all in a month or two, Bob. I guarantee you there are two amendments at least that begs the

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question here. One amendment is the financial information. I go to retro gym every day now. It's done me worlds of good. I am totally for athletic facilities. I have hear a big no on this from

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everyone I speak to except people that have no clue that it's going to cost tax dollars. And when you tell them that a couple of people will say, "Well, I heard that rumor and I'm like, not a rumor." And they look at you like deer

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in the headlights. And that's what's going to happen with this question as currently worded. Number two, amendment. And this this is an important one. Tracking on what you said, Bob. If you don't feel you have enough information

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because so much information is lacking, vote no. Put that in writing with the referendum question. If you do not feel you have sufficient information, you can vote no on this question.

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Those are my two comments. Thank you for listening. [applause] Anybody else? Yeah. No. Yeah. You got you have to wait till no, please. >> Hello, mayor and council. My name is

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Steve Quait. I'm in Poren River. Um, I'm a permanent resident for the last eight years, but I've been coming to this area for 50 years, so I've seen the changes. My first question is, have all of you uh

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said how you feel about it yet? >> Yes. You weren't here for >> I came in late. That's okay. I apologize for that. >> No, no problem. >> All right. I'm getting the sensus that most people are against it. Not because they don't want to Y or town center or whatever. It's just because of the

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money, the tax. Um, I'm hoping that you're a ruthless negotiator and you can knock the hell out of this thing. Um, where it wouldn't cost the residents a scent. Um, [music] I'm originally from

482
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North Jersey and we have tons more services than we have in the small town that we're here. One is a rec center, community center, senior center, all that stuff. Seniors could go for

483
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nothing. They get fed. They could do whatever they want. And it's a place, a meeting place. It really is a great thing. Have the mayor and council tried to get money from other sources like donations from businesses. I'm thinking about the

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power plant. All right. Uh the way I've seen things be done at other towns is they crack in on industry and say uh if we don't want this, what are you guys willing to kick in? I don't know if they could come up with the money we're

485
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talking about here, but that's how I would approach it. I would approach it from getting money from other sources and maybe you could tell the why to either cough up more money or or we're not interested. >> All those all those are options. I know. So that's why I'm hoping you're

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>> you are >> I I was >> I think you are too. >> Um I'm retired businessman >> and I've been in negotiations that >> they kick your butt. I know that [laughter] and and I think you're all intelligent

487
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people and I think you're trying to do the best for the town. >> But send it out. Uh, I think the lady that was up ahead of me made a very good point in saying that the question should be worded that not only do you want a why, how much it'll cost you as a

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resident. And I might be misquing this too, that over the last three years, we had almost 10% increase every year to a grand total of 30% on our taxes. And this would add to that if it went the way it is.

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So, um I don't want to see any more tax burden on you guys or us. Um and is the school settled now because that was the majority of the last tax increases. >> They're never settled. They're always

490
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going to be in need >> and health benefits are going to go up every year. Well, well, you know, >> as a business person too, >> I said you're not going to get in. >> I think the board of eds got too much power because as business changed,

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corporate had to say employees have to contribute. You don't get benefits you always got before. >> Yeah, they they do contribute. >> Well, okay. I didn't >> the U teachers do contribute. I didn't know that. All right. But uh as much as

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anybody will come to you and say we've had all these increases, >> well so have we. So everybody's had increases and it's not fair to say one person's increase is more important than the other person's

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increase because we're all under the same burden. And I don't know if I gave any insight that you guys didn't think of before because I think you did think of it. And uh is there a possibility of getting money out of business? >> There's always a possibility.

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>> I mean, you got to ring them next for the money [laughter] and and then maybe you could do what you want with the 11 acres and that's it. So >> anyway, thanks for listening. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Thank you. >> I'm patient.

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Just state your name. >> Maryanne Shepard in Forket River. I just wanted to make one point about the uh question because I thought that was the primary reason the content of the question for tonight whether or not you would vote on it.

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>> Yeah. And I guess a lot of people I you know I see online and I talk to people would be under the impression that with the tax increase that we would not have to pay anything to join the Y that would be included. But from what I read other

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towns can join too. So if the average tax increase is $280 per house and it's $50. We're going by Tom's River, I guess, because we don't have numbers here for one person or $100 for a family. 10% of even a family, if the

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whole family does join in a household, that's a $100. So surrounding towns will actually pay less to go to the Y than we will that we're taking all this risk on with the YMCA and this public private, you know. So I don't think this is clear

499
02:18:51.840 --> 02:19:07.679
at all in this question that you have to pay additional money and that you'll actually have to pay more than surrounding towns. People you say that they can vote yes or no. They're not going to read into that. You know >> says it cost 45 million.

500
02:19:07.679 --> 02:19:23.359
>> It says it costs 45 million. >> Does it say gives them a voice in this question or do people will assume that they have raised taxes? that that that should be put out there and the tax raise should be put out there >> and that the surrounding towns actually

501
02:19:23.359 --> 02:19:41.531
will end up paying less than the people who live within the town that are assuming the risk. >> That should be in here too because this is not clear. >> So that's all I really have. >> Thank you for Yeah. Thank you. [applause]

502
02:19:43.359 --> 02:20:04.080
But >> I don't know. I've actually got kind of two questions and I just want to address somebody said about Lifetime Fitness coming in. First of all, it's commercial, >> so they would have to go on your main drags. Okay. And I I left Lifetime Fitness 15 years ago and it was $150 a

503
02:20:04.080 --> 02:20:20.319
person a month. So not cost per YMCA is way cheaper. last meeting um it was mentioned that the town was going to pay the YMCA to run the facility. I didn't kind of hear that today unless I missed it. No. >> Okay. So, that's off the table because that was mentioned last last week and I the table.

504
02:20:20.319 --> 02:20:35.760
>> Well, somebody said that last p time and I was like, no, >> just want to be clear. >> Not from up here. >> Okay. The other thing is I have a I I know I had mentioned uh emailed Veronica and stuff on this. I have a problem with the and I mentioned this before the court before the horse on this

505
02:20:35.760 --> 02:20:51.280
referendum. Now, now to find out that the um survey was done by the YMCA, which I didn't know. I thought that was a town survey. >> It's a town survey. >> All right. Why won't Why aren't we putting out just a referendum to find out if the town wants it in general before you're going into all this

506
02:20:51.280 --> 02:21:07.439
mishmash of missing our taxes and everything else into the town paying for the facility? >> I I I mean, my own opinion on that is that if you just put a yes or no question of whether the town wants a YMCA, it would pass overwhelmingly. can't do that. >> But then you then you can start

507
02:21:07.439 --> 02:21:22.560
addressing it a little better this way and maybe have a full committee. >> This is this is we're doing the best we can with the information we have. >> But who's on the committee running it? Who's on the committee forming this? Is just the council? >> The c the the YMCA approach to council. It's not us. I

508
02:21:22.560 --> 02:21:38.840
>> have people in the community because I know I volunteered over your >> So I mean we we get input from the CFO, you know, DPW. We get that it's not a group of community members is what I'm asking. No. >> Okay. Is that really what you need?

509
02:21:45.200 --> 02:22:00.720
>> Louise Sam Louise Samson, Amber Miss Court, Amber Miss Way. Um, has traffic study done uh a extensive review on the impact? >> They don't do that until they we uh begin engineering.

510
02:22:00.720 --> 02:22:16.479
>> Okay. So before voting on this, you're saying it's going to be near the Wawa this the location of that behind >> at the light at Adam Street. >> Okay. And but the traffic safety won't do have any say until after. >> Okay.

511
02:22:16.479 --> 02:22:33.040
>> Yes, that's that's normal. >> Okay. Just questioning it because having listened to um some of the folks speaking here, it's become a concern because we walk here and it's it's a concern. The problem with a lot of studies, this came up last last time

512
02:22:33.040 --> 02:22:49.439
too, is it's one thing you learn real quick when you get involved with government. >> You can't ask questions without a price tag. >> Traffic safety is your police officers. That's not the same kind of traffic. >> Well, that's what I'm referring to. Our police officers. Do you have a traffic

513
02:22:49.439 --> 02:23:03.920
safety? >> Right. every time we want to run a study or anything, you know, whether it's professional, [snorts] legal, or whatever, we're trying, even with the money that has been spent, we're trying to keep it down. So,

514
02:23:03.920 --> 02:23:20.720
>> once a decision is made, this is all stuff that would go into the next step. Yes, there is a next step. There may not be, but it's almost it's damned if you do, damned if you don't, but we're trying to because Everything costs.

515
02:23:20.720 --> 02:23:35.280
>> Okay. I was just wondering if our police officers if there was a department that's what I'm saying if they weighed in. Okay. They haven't weighed in. Okay. >> Um Committeeman Curutoo. >> Yes.

516
02:23:35.280 --> 02:23:51.920
>> You you made a very valid point. I would hate to see local businessmen lose space in some of our areas be vacant because the competition might be putting them out of business. that I thank you for thinking about

517
02:23:51.920 --> 02:24:08.880
that. Um, I just want it seems to me like you you will be voting on this referendum tonight. Is that correct? >> Well, we're up against the time cap, so >> no the rest of us. I got to give it up to the county. >> So, the reason why I'm asking that is

518
02:24:08.880 --> 02:24:24.240
back to the referendum question. Another uh resident spoke to this issue simply just to just to make it a little more fairer where it says if you vote yes, could you insert

519
02:24:24.240 --> 02:24:40.080
three three lines that say this will increase your taxes period? Would you consider doing that now before you vote? >> I don't Yes, I I would. That's okay. I will I will >> Yeah, we'll take that recommendation.

520
02:24:40.080 --> 02:24:57.280
Yes. And and our attorney could possibly come up with probably >> is Mr. Connor's >> Mr. Con. >> He's thinking he's got his thinking cap on. >> You could you can if you want to include that language in >> I'm not saying it's factually correct.

521
02:24:57.280 --> 02:25:14.439
I'm saying it's legal, >> but I don't know whether it will increase the tax or not. That's for the CFO to decide. But but if that's the >> No, please. >> Hey. >> All right, >> Wyatt, please.

522
02:25:14.560 --> 02:25:32.160
>> It's not for the township attorney to decide what the tax impact is. I can tell you what you can put in the question. If that's factually correct, you can put that in the in the question. Interpretive statement. >> That's all. >> That that the cost of the building is a

523
02:25:32.160 --> 02:25:48.000
tax impact to the taxpayers. Yes, >> this will increase. >> You can word it >> something like that >> in any manner in which you >> you're not saying things tonight was about is because >> the question that proposed cuz we we got

524
02:25:48.000 --> 02:26:04.720
a couple options of different things and if we needed to tweak it, change it or something like that too, you know, that was part of what what we're here for too tonight. Yes. I mean, nothing is set in stone. So, am I >> Yes, we're going to add it. I I believe

525
02:26:04.720 --> 02:26:20.160
I think that consensus >> and I have to be very honest with you. I'm very impressed with the way you are listening to us. >> Thank you. >> Whether I not whether or not I I came here with an open mind, >> right?

526
02:26:20.160 --> 02:26:37.359
>> I've all our lifeguards got certified in the Tom's River uh YMCA. We used it all the time. I personally, after having listened to everything, I'll be honest, I will be voting no, but everyone is entitled to their vote. But I think with

527
02:26:37.359 --> 02:26:57.920
that three-word would make it a lot more clearer, and I I really appreciate you putting that in. Thank you. >> Okay. Is that okay, Veronica? >> Yes. >> Figure out what I'm going to put in there. Steve, you come back. Wait,

528
02:26:57.920 --> 02:27:15.280
Steve, he's been wait. >> Yeah, you. >> Tony went home. >> Come on, Tony. Uh, Steve Borrow for River. I have a lot of questions for uh

529
02:27:15.280 --> 02:27:31.200
the Y and the three companies you hired that you paid $163,000. the virtual designs and how it affects the the people. Could you have them people here at the next meeting? >> I mean, we

530
02:27:31.200 --> 02:27:47.200
>> Well, the contracts with the the companies that we did for all the studies have ended. >> They they've ended. They what? >> The contracts have ended. They're done. We've paid them. Their contracts are over with. They've provided us with their final report. >> Well, then someone up here has got to go over it

531
02:27:47.200 --> 02:28:02.399
>> or should go over it. over. >> I want to know what we spent $92,000 on for visual. Look, I'll bring it up next meeting. >> I want to before you guys vote on it. Number one, this is incomplete.

532
02:28:02.399 --> 02:28:20.240
Um, it's untruthful and illegal. It doesn't comply with the law. And I could see that only looking at it for 10 minutes. I'm not going to tell you how why you're wrong, but you all should know what what you're going to add to this. But you are in compliance with the

533
02:28:20.240 --> 02:28:37.120
45 million. The only thing is you forgot to put the word initial in front of it because initially it is 45 million. You're not telling them that it's going to be another 5060 million in interest

534
02:28:37.120 --> 02:28:51.840
over the 30 years. So that is a very dishonest way to put that on there. Also, in the back part, they went and asked you guys, and you guys said, "If we vote no, you're going to vote no." Put it

535
02:28:51.840 --> 02:29:08.880
right on there. If you vote no and not in favor of the township issuing general obligation bonds in this amount of $45 million, the YMCA will not be built. >> That's how you finish that sentence. >> I I

536
02:29:08.880 --> 02:29:27.680
>> Now, the other thing, Go ahead. I don't want to interrupt you. Thank you. Um, unfortunately, if you do that, it's my opinion that it violates the provisions of the non-binding referendum because now you're making it binding.

537
02:29:27.680 --> 02:29:44.200
>> Well, you should have an amendment to it. That explains everything that when people go to vote, they understand it's not just 45 million. >> Steve, you're talking over the I just I I've rendered my opinion in the governing body. It must be nonbinding.

538
02:29:44.399 --> 02:29:59.600
Okay. The other thing that you didn't put in here when you say that you're exploring a partnership, a partnership means that you share. They're not sharing nothing. They're going in there lease free. And that also if it's not in

539
02:29:59.600 --> 02:30:17.520
the explanation of the vote, it should be on a separate sheet to make that real clear because that's that's the backb breaker right there that you guys are letting it them go lease free. I research there's 30 YMCA

540
02:30:17.520 --> 02:30:34.000
in New Jersey. They either own the building or they pay a lease. I can't understand how you all are hoodwinkedked that easily by them throwing this at you and you're taking the whole bait hook, line, and sinker where they get a free

541
02:30:34.000 --> 02:30:49.680
building and [clears throat] their big shots will prosper more. They'll probably give themselves some more actual raises. I do have a couple other questions about the refer referendum because number one, it doesn't comply with the law the way I

542
02:30:49.680 --> 02:31:18.560
read it. Okay. Why do critics oppose the project? And this is from off the internet using different uh websites. There's a double pay jeopardy that everyone talks about where it is

543
02:31:18.560 --> 02:31:34.800
expected to fully fund it. It's going to be $96 million. We're going to pay for that and pay for an annual or monthly fee. Um, the ballot must legally include certain things that I do not read on

544
02:31:34.800 --> 02:31:51.280
here. So, before you guys vote on it, we're going to challenge this thing as it's worded. If you leave it the way it is, it's not in compliance with the law. Even though I do respect the attorney, >> I Stephen, thank you. I appreciate those comments, but let me ask you a question

545
02:31:51.280 --> 02:32:06.640
from a practical standpoint. >> Go ahead. >> Let's say you file a progative writ action in court, which you have 45 days to do and you're successful, >> right? >> Then the question doesn't even get on the ballot and the governing body can

546
02:32:06.640 --> 02:32:23.120
make a decision anyway. >> Okay. So, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. >> More nonbinding than that. >> I'm not even going to tell you. I'm not even going to tell I'm not even going to tell you why. suggest that if you're successful in getting the question removed from the ballot, you're not you're doing a disservice to the public

547
02:32:23.120 --> 02:32:39.200
because they won't even have the question to vote on. >> Exactly right. [snorts] >> I'm just being practical. I could appreciate the difference of opinion, including my own. I really do. I respect that, but I'm just saying from a practical standpoint because if you have

548
02:32:39.200 --> 02:32:54.080
a number of people in this room, we can all come up with a way to word it. I believe me, we can come up with a way to word it and everybody would be right. >> If you don't want it, you want the question. >> Yeah, but you know what? That's kind of

549
02:32:54.080 --> 02:33:10.080
sinister because you already spec spent $163,000 and you're like blowing that off like it's chicken feed. You're saying, well, because we didn't do our homework and you vote that way. The fact of the matter is you already

550
02:33:10.080 --> 02:33:26.080
spent 163. We got to see one little picture over here. We don't even know what the other two companies did for the 23 $24,000 you paid them. They should have been here and did a presentation for all that money. $92,000

551
02:33:26.080 --> 02:33:41.280
them people were here. But we didn't know that. You know why? Because I asked the question, how much has we spent? And no one knew. But right after the meeting, it comes out in the paper that we did spend $163,000.

552
02:33:41.280 --> 02:33:56.479
right after the meeting. So between me asking it and then after the meeting, you knew to me that's kind of dishonest. >> Take five. Does anybody else? >> That's five minutes already. >> I'm going to count other people because

553
02:33:56.479 --> 02:34:12.880
you're prejudice against me. Especially you. >> You I got the fastest five minutes. People been up here 10 15 minutes. >> Words. >> [laughter] >> I just say it to get you upset.

554
02:34:12.880 --> 02:34:29.800
>> That's the only reason. I have only reason. >> Quiet, please. >> Hello. >> Say your name. >> Linda Miller, Forket River. >> I like that word practical because this tax increase is not practical.

555
02:34:30.160 --> 02:34:47.680
>> Thank you for coming. >> Well, let's Tony come back up. >> Thank you. Uh once again, John Saladino, uh Barnum Court, Fork RI. Just one last question. Um if this referendum goes on

556
02:34:47.680 --> 02:35:04.160
the ballot and it passes, are you obligated to build it? because it sounds like there's still quite a bit of negotiating and correct and do you actually have that much enough do you have enough time to do to complete and all the negotiations between now and

557
02:35:04.160 --> 02:35:21.040
>> so we wouldn't begin any type of contractual uh uh agreements until after the after the referendum there's no point >> okay but would you be required if it passes to build >> No some sort of recreation center

558
02:35:21.040 --> 02:35:37.132
binding No. No. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Non-binding. >> All right. What's the final iteration? Mayor, >> this is similar on the referendum. I want to go with Miss Wisconsin and Pat

559
02:35:37.132 --> 02:35:54.720
[laughter] there. Linda Capitan. Um >> I hear concerns about we're going too early to try and get this in November. I like the idea of this step approach. somehow the referendum giving the information you need. Should we move forward? That gives you more time to get

560
02:35:54.720 --> 02:36:10.880
the questions that we're all wanting to get answered before we decide to spend the money. Is that a possible way to approach this? Can you make it a step referendum? In other words, step one, here's what we know based on this.

561
02:36:10.880 --> 02:36:26.800
Should we move forward? is I don't know if that's legal, but that doesn't bind us to have to make a decision when we don't know information. We have more information forthcoming. This is what we know now. Based on this, do you think we should move forward?

562
02:36:26.800 --> 02:36:43.840
Spend more money on whatever you need to do to do your proper research. I know how you develop projects. It kind [clears throat] of it kind of splits the baby. Gives us another chance. But again, madam, you have the you have the number 45 million, >> but that's not enough information to to

563
02:36:43.840 --> 02:36:59.680
to say yes to this referendum because I really think you're you're you should deal with the people that are going to read this for the first time and they're not going to see it's going to increase their taxes, though it should seem obvious. >> We're adding it tonight. We're adding it tonight.

564
02:36:59.680 --> 02:37:15.840
>> You're absolutely that will be new language. I I just don't want to get in a place where you people say yes and we go ahead you know and sign a deal. >> We still we we still have the opportunity I I I mean >> but what's our way?

565
02:37:15.840 --> 02:37:30.800
>> So just for example if they came back and said we said 45 million and the price came out to be hundred million then we're not going to do it. >> Do you come back to the voters or do you make >> I think we can make that decision to not spend $100 million. >> So we only get this vote on the whole matter once. >> Yes.

566
02:37:30.800 --> 02:37:46.240
>> That's why I think it should have as much information as possible. >> You know, here's the thing. It's it's a non-binding. >> But, okay, let's just >> What does that mean to me? >> We're not bound by whatever the results are. If it goes down, >> if we say no, you can go ahead.

567
02:37:46.240 --> 02:38:02.880
>> If we say yes, you can say we don't want to do it. >> But here's the thing. >> We could walk away from this at any point in time. >> We don't like how the negotiations go after the referendum or in the next couple of weeks. We can say no, we can walk away from this.

568
02:38:02.880 --> 02:38:19.840
>> But we will have given you the okay to spend if you what that says. It says the community wants the majority of the community or or the majority of the community does or does not want us to go forward. Okay? That's what we follow. Okay? And let's let's say we're talking

569
02:38:19.840 --> 02:38:37.040
to him in January and all of a sudden something comes out of the blue. We can say go we're out. >> Well then tighten the language up. Do you want us to go forward? That's all I'm saying. and and and the same thing goes forward with the negotiations we're having right now. >> Yeah. You know, >> if it goes ary between now and November,

570
02:38:37.040 --> 02:38:53.920
even though the question may be on the ballot, >> if we don't like it, we're going to tell you, >> with that, >> remember, it's a it's a nonbinding resol uh referendum. So, say we don't like what they're

571
02:38:53.920 --> 02:39:11.600
presenting in the end and the majority of the town says, "Yes, we want it." Guess what? Then the non-bonding works in the other direction because we do not. If we don't like the terms that we finally get them to hash

572
02:39:11.600 --> 02:39:26.560
out, we we don't have to do this. We can any at any time pull the plug. But if we don't like it, it's too late because we've said yes. >> Well, if you if No. If you don't like

573
02:39:26.560 --> 02:39:42.720
it, you said no. >> What if I say yes? Because I want you to move forward to get more information. Now, there is no other referendum. >> You just said if we're >> even if this says yes in November, just say >> there's still always a lot of work to be done,

574
02:39:42.720 --> 02:39:58.560
>> of course. >> And if we don't like what we see and the direction it's going, [clears throat] >> we can pull the plug at any time. But I can't. >> So you can continue on your >> We give you the next go- ahead. >> That's what I'm trying to understand.

575
02:39:58.560 --> 02:40:14.479
This is my last voice. >> Let me just say this. >> The referendum is my last. >> I've been in negotiations all my life. >> As have I. >> You never negotiate in public. Ever. >> Ever. You don't. >> All I want to know is is this my last voice on the matter? Once I say yes to

576
02:40:14.479 --> 02:40:30.080
this referendum, I have no voice proceeding forward or cancelling. There's no mechanism. If you say yes, if the if the majority of the town votes yes, >> we have Wait a minute. Let me finish. >> Yes. Let me finish, please. >> We have the right to go forward.

577
02:40:30.080 --> 02:40:48.399
>> Okay. Even if they said no, >> we could have five of us say, you know what the heck with what the town says, we could go forward. Okay. But the but the major but everybody said up here, we wouldn't. >> So that's where we're at. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I'm all the way in the back. all the way

578
02:40:48.399 --> 02:41:03.920
in the back. >> Oh, yeah. >> Being that you brought up that wordage change, >> quiet, please. >> Being that you brought up that wordage change, can it reflect the percentage of increase on the taxpayers? >> No, we're we're we're adding to we're

579
02:41:03.920 --> 02:41:24.960
adding language. Period. That's it. >> All right. Thanks. >> State your name. Steve Post. Manchester Avenue, Fork River. Um, one thing I wanted to know is the 45 million. Is that your GMP for this building?

580
02:41:24.960 --> 02:41:40.000
>> 45 million. That's your GMP. So that's it. Guaranteed maximum price. You guys are not to exceed that. You have no intentions on exceeding. >> It would only authorize us to borrow $45 million. >> Yeah. So if you borrow the 45 million

581
02:41:40.000 --> 02:41:56.240
and you go into construction costs, right? And then you always end up with addendums to the construction. Something happens, costs go up, you have construction issues, you go into added costs that can exceed 500,000, sometimes a million. You don't you don't know where it's going to go. Are you guys

582
02:41:56.240 --> 02:42:12.319
prepared to come up with the extra funding? >> Just it dep if it comes out to like an extra 100,000 probably. If it comes out,000 million, then probably not. >> Yeah. But you won't know that till >> Exactly. We're not going to know until exactly to bid. We will know. Yes, we we

583
02:42:12.319 --> 02:42:28.720
can't know that today. How in the world then borrow the money? >> I can't know a bid today on based on tomorrow's prices and estimate. >> No, I understand that. So, you're just taking you have to take a guess, an educated guess where you're going to land, correct? >> Right. No, I understand that. >> So, you don't you don't have a

584
02:42:28.720 --> 02:42:45.359
preliminary agreement with them then? No. >> Right. No. None. You're just negotiating through the terms and then once you go through this, because it's non-binding, you'll take it to the next step. >> Correct. >> And you're hoping it goes further. Are you considering the salaries of these employees because you have >> They're not They're not We're not No,

585
02:42:45.359 --> 02:43:00.960
they're not our employees. >> No. >> So, they're going to employ They're going to employ the employees >> with the tax dollar. [clears throat] >> No, no, no. The the money that we're borrowing is for us to build the building. What they do in the inside is up to them and they have to figure out how to pay for that.

586
02:43:00.960 --> 02:43:15.760
>> Yeah, they have to figure out >> that's how they do it by their membership fees. >> Okay. All right. I'm just trying to understand where the money's going. Now, >> and just so and just so you know, >> they're predicting their payroll will be $2.4 million. Now, will all that go to

587
02:43:15.760 --> 02:43:32.800
Lacy residents? Probably not. >> Okay. But that's what they're predicting. So, let's say 70%. That's one little over $1.5 million is going to be in incoming into Lacy's economy. Not bad. >> So, in your agreement terms, you're going to have a clause in there that states that they're bound to so many

588
02:43:32.800 --> 02:43:49.359
years because I mean, if they don't meet payroll, >> right? Well, >> then what? Then what do they do? >> Early ter we'll have an early termination penalty in there for her. >> Okay. So, you'll negotiate that as well. >> All right. Um, Veronica, you had stated that, which bothered me a lot by this because I had a family member that

589
02:43:49.359 --> 02:44:05.520
passed away from opioids and you had said that the grant money you get approximately 50,000 or you had $50,000 for three years straight. Is that what you said? >> Yeah, we correct me if I'm wrong. >> Yeah, we we like this year we're due to get a little bit shy of 50,000. Like I

590
02:44:05.520 --> 02:44:21.760
said, it's a it's it's a sliding scale. >> In precon, the precon, how much was spent in precon based on those grants that were allotted to you for the opioid. >> So the opioid money, the grants, because you had stated that a good portion of

591
02:44:21.760 --> 02:44:38.319
the precon that was already done on that on that piece of property was spent by >> no preconstruction work was done with the opioid market. >> So you had you had no geo, no soil testing? >> No. >> No. None of that you can't use money for that. >> Exactly.

592
02:44:38.319 --> 02:44:53.680
>> Yeah. I didn't understand where that where that money went because I mean if we if we tore through $150,000 towards anything dealing with this YMCA right now, how many kids have died in the last three years due to due to opioids,

593
02:44:53.680 --> 02:45:10.479
right? Where that money could have been already used towards something else. And the way I looked at it is that that money was spent towards the YMCA on a hunch that this is going to go through. You know, I mean, think about it. It's 150 grand. How many how many how many

594
02:45:10.479 --> 02:45:25.680
Listen, we don't know how many lives could have saved been saved, but we do know how many lives how many kids have died, you know? I mean, I I just I just feel like the spending of that money towards towards this YMC CA is totally

595
02:45:25.680 --> 02:45:43.439
unethical. in in my view. Okay, if it was granted specifically for that and the money was used for something else. Now granted, the note the intent was good in hopes that the YMCA goes through and there's programs for opioid, but if this doesn't go through, how many lives

596
02:45:43.439 --> 02:46:00.000
and how many lives were spent to try to make a YMCA work >> when we could have probably have found that money, like the gentleman said, through funding through the businesses and getting donations for the 150 grand. We I mean if that were the case, if I

597
02:46:00.000 --> 02:46:15.760
knew that, I would have wanted to streak to the businesses and try to scrape up the 150 grand in representation of you guys. >> So again, this is just trying to get uh more activities to keep to, as Pete said before, to keep the youth away from any uh

598
02:46:15.760 --> 02:46:30.240
>> I I >> I mean, that's the idea. I understand, but there are ways of doing things the proper way and there's ways of getting from point A to point B quick. All right. I understand where you guys

599
02:46:30.240 --> 02:46:46.319
Listen, I I've been here a couple times. I know you guys have good intentions, but I feel like when we started this building, I mean, the first the first big meeting we had was this building and how it needed help. It was in disarray.

600
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We talked about have building a new uh town hall with the community center. It sounded great. It It just wasn't in the cards at that point. I mean, I I I agree. This building needed a lot of work. It still does, but I feel like we're moving forward. We're we're we're

601
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always searching for something. What I I just don't understand what we're searching for. If you want to make We have this building that's in disarray. If if that the tax say the tax dollar goes up by 500 a year, right? That money

602
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could be allocated the 45 million in fixing this building. The money could be allocated towards the high school sports. I and >> the whole like the roofing the >> We can't have anything the two separate units. We can't. >> I've Let me make sure I understand.

603
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You're You're telling me >> you're in favor of this committee going out and borrowing or bonding $45 million to fix this building and the police. >> I the tax is going to be the same. >> I I am just making a point that the f

604
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the focus is on a community center, right? When All right, we're in we're into it for 45 million on this building. The taxes go up 500. What do we do here? What do we do with this building? Just think about it if this if this ceiling opens up, right? [music]

605
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And how are you guys going to handle this building moving forward? We can't paint the railings in the front. We can't do anything unless you have a premeditative a premeditative alternative that nobody knows about where you're going with the Y or or with

606
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this building after that. Right. I mean, I I'm just confused by it all. It just seems like we're kind of like scattered all over the map instead of sticking to certain priorities. Um the YMCA, are we are we going to make money on that? Do we know? Are we unsure if we're going to

607
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make anything on that? Or what if we don't cover the costs on that? Are we in now in the hall with the why and this building? Um there I think there's like just a lot to consider. Um, I think we're we're we're going in depth too

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deep with with another project before we have this one resolved here. Um, this a waterfront community, okay? Most of the people during the summer months are drawn to the water. They're not going to be drawn to YMCA pools. They're going to be drawn to the to the bay. Your

609
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bayfront is is everything in this town. I >> Your time is up. >> Okay. Thank you very much. [laughter] Everybody wants to see y'all again. Yeah, Joe. >> Oh god. Maybe down. >> Oh no. >> Joe Gilmore, Frooid River. Now you want

610
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to do 45 million for a Y that they don't have to pay for. Now my question is how long have we needed a new police station? >> Depends on >> it's been a while and I would say a police station would

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help everybody or would represent a 100% of the town whereas a Y is not. is going to be a select few. It's going to be a low percent. So I I would just think if you do the Y for 45 million and then your police

612
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station has to be replaced, how much is that? I mean, you're a builder. You should have an idea, right? >> It depends on what it depends on whether you're building a new police station or trying to rehab the old one. It's It's not It's complicated. >> Well, isn't right now the old one too small?

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>> It's been there for how many years? And I'm not in favor of owning any property on Lacy Road. We don't get tax money out of it. So, >> all right. Well, how about then plan building a police station? >> That again, the police station belongs on that property, a new police station.

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It has been a topic of discussion. >> Yeah, >> it did. So, this this was all this was in the works. The Y stepped in. This is this is just a focus right now. I'm not saying it will be a focus later. I don't know. Everybody's focusing on taxes, but

615
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I'm saying if you do a Y for 45 million and then you have to do a police station, that's more bonded money. >> So again, I I can't >> that's more taxes. >> So again, I can't anticipate time frames or Yeah, there there there's a lot of moving pieces with this stuff.

616
02:51:31.600 --> 02:51:47.680
>> I know, but so all I'm saying is the Y approached us. So everybody's going to has a chance opportunity to vote on. >> You have a lot of pieces to the puzzle. The puzzle should be halfway done by now. >> It would have been halfway done if we would have went forward with it two years ago. We would have had a new police station if we went forward.

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>> That was only what 65 65 billion. >> But yeah, but the three >> billion the problem back then is like you stood up here and you said the community hall, we had to get rid of it because it would cost millions to fix. >> No, no, wait. Sorry. So, yeah. >> And then you said the police station was

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going to cost millions. This building was going to cost. And I thought, why don't you take care of things? BECAUSE IT'S BECAUSE >> WHY DON'T YOU TAKE CARE OF THINGS? >> Because because because there any they're major capital

619
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projects. Any major capital projects, everybody shows up and yells, >> maintain along the way. There is no major capital project. The retrofit this building alone now. Yes. >> Two years ago, >> would have done it a while ago. Building's been here.

620
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>> $35 million. Yeah, it's the same thing with the police station. So there it's not it's not cut and dry. Just go fix the police station. It's complicated. >> Yeah, but why don't you take care of things? That's my main thing. >> We are. We >> No, I notic. No, I know you're No, you don't take care of things. >> Yes, we do. >> I just got I just told you we're redoing

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the dam at Third Lake. We're redoing Bandberlake Dam. We're paving Hane Street and putting uh sidewalks in. We're paving Pen Avenue. We're p we're fixing bulk uh street end bulkheads. We're we're doing stuff. >> You're doing Yeah. You you you you sold a building that was gifted to the town

622
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people. The property the building was gifted to the town people and you sold it. >> So >> because you wanted to buy the old uh Knights of Columbus building. >> All right. Never mind. I'm done. Thank you. >> Thank you.

623
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>> Uh Kevin. >> Okay. >> Kevin, don't yell at [sighs] >> you know I get I get >> I know you get fired up. You get fired up. I don't need >> That's 100% correct cuz I love this town. >> Make your name correct.

624
02:53:38.880 --> 02:53:55.840
>> Kevin Flynn, Barney Pines. So, Steve, I asked you. You said if they said the people voted no, that's how you vote. >> Not too long after that, you said, "Well, if it's not overwhelming." What's that mean? >> Say that. I said it. >> Yes, you did. Oh, yeah.

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02:53:55.840 --> 02:54:12.080
>> No, no. If it's gets If it's gets voted down, I'm not voting for it. >> Okay. I just want to get that. >> I don't think I said that. Yes, you did. You said overwhelming. Unless it's overwhelming. >> Well, it was we we go back to the tapes eventually, but watch it. You said overwhelming. That's why I'm >> The majority doesn't want it. We're not

626
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doing it there. >> So, one vote. >> Yeah. One vote >> is the majority. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And Pete, stop blaming the employees about cost because um >> you said about health costs and everything. >> There's no you guys. >> No. No. Wait. Earlier you said about

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cost about taxes going up and everything else. You work for the county. >> You and I both pay a lot. >> Exactly. So don't always don't always blame the employees about >> You misunderstood. It's the state that is raising that. And you're paying the

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state's killing everybody. >> Right. Not PTO. The state >> or or any of your employees here. It's the state. >> Exactly. Right. Exactly right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Kevin. >> Rich. After this, >> what did I do?

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>> After this, we'll read the question. >> Excuse me. Loving this tonight. Democracy in action. This is wonderful. >> Please, people. >> All right. There's too much noise in the lobby. >> Now, I'll be able to hear you. >> All right. Now, as I said, this is

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02:55:18.800 --> 02:55:32.960
democracy in action. I love it. This is what we should see at every township committee meeting. Maybe I'll be able to infuse people to keep coming like this. This is great. A couple things. I have a question. This is a very serious question about this. Um, if the Y

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doesn't make their budget, say like Tom's River had to kick in $600,000 this year, is that going to be thought about in this contract that we're not going to be contributing a penny toward their operating expenses? >> The contract will be negotiated with all

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the all the parameters that that we're listening to. And that is not something that's been on the table from either party that if that happens, there's been no mention of that from the Y that if that happens, the town has to cover their losses. >> We're going to negotiate. >> We are well aware of that. Okay.

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>> There will be an early exit penalty if they decide to leave before the lease >> is. But then we've got this building and what are we going to do with that? That's the other problem. >> That's the whole thing. There will be a penalty they will have to pay. But there is no there is no uh kick in from additional kick in from the taxpayers if they come up

634
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>> like Tom's River just stood. >> That's correct. >> Yeah, that's that's in the the agreement that Tom River has with that. >> Yeah, I I understand. And they do negotiate that. Usually a lot of towns if they don't make cuz I was reading about this. Okay. So >> and I have seen that myself. We we've we've talked about that pretty much from

635
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the beginning when we started all this that if god forbid the YMCA decides to pull out which could happen >> happen of course >> then then what happens then we well there's got to be a penalty that they're going to have to reimburse us or pay us or whatever

636
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>> right so I thought it was very interesting tonight when we listened to a person come up with a synopsis which I didn't really think about but actually is very logical the taxpayers of Lacy are going to be paying more than the surrounding towns if they wanted to use

637
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our YMCA because we are paying for the building, right? And we're going to also have to pay for membership. And that is totally unfair. Totally unfair. Now, it would be one thing if you were telling us that this was going to be Lacy's YMCA

638
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and it was only for residents of Lacy Township, but you can't really do that, I believe. Right. So that also is very very not it's just not viable for the taxpayers of Lacy for the people in all the surrounding towns. It's a great idea like sure why not have it come here. The

639
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other thing too is I just want to mention this between here and LBI we have the Tom's River YMCA much better facility is St. Francis which I've actually used terrific. I mean they have a great mental health services. They

640
02:57:57.439 --> 02:58:14.800
have terrific sports programs. Their aquatics are fantastic. I mean, so really folks, I mean, it's not like we're having to drive an hour anywhere for like to get a swimming pool. And I'm really hoping that with my continued pressure that you guys will clean up

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Deer Head Lake. I think it's It used to be beautiful and I don't know why it's been allowed to go the way it is. >> Rich, it couldn't pass. Well, it could pass. You got You have to drain I know it has to be done. You have

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to drain the lake. >> We have three lakes in the dam. >> Yes, >> we have three beautiful lakes that never exceed >> three, >> right? >> Most that's more than anybody else. >> But quite frankly, >> there's only eight in the county.

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>> I understand. But when I moved here, that lake was a swimmable lake. Okay. When I bought my taxes, I paid my house. Both that lake and Lake Barnagate were swimmable. It isn't any longer. And the mistake that was made is because it was incompetence with the way the dam was built. It wasn't built high enough. A

644
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>> lot of underlying issues in that. >> You take that up with the state of New Jersey because no and listen, I agree with you and it all comes down to funding. Right. Right. So other priorities take place each budget year, whether it's paving streets, buying equipment, enhancing the parks, than it does to do an exploratory study to

645
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determine what is wrong with the lake and what needs to be done with the lake. >> We'll put the money into that lake and it'll never pass. I I can I'll get the environmental health coordinator in here to say he wrote me an 8 and a half by 11 on why it won't pass. >> Okay. You know what? >> Let me just say

646
02:59:34.160 --> 02:59:50.319
>> I have a question sentimental. >> I think No, no, no. I think basically I don't think the Ocean County Health Department should be doing the testing because you work there quite frankly. I think it should be done by an independent. >> I don't do it. The Ocean County Utilities Authority I understand how it

647
02:59:50.319 --> 03:00:07.120
works. just looks funny to me. And I also don't understand how Deer Head Lake >> could be polluted and that water flows into Lake Barnagate and you're telling me that that is clean. None of us believe it. It's just it's just nonsense. >> Let me just say let me just say that

648
03:00:07.120 --> 03:00:23.120
real quick. Had the state listened to Casey Parker >> when they designed that damn thing. >> Guess what? We're not talking about it. I have talked to Casey. He had he because of the size of the horseshoe was so much larger than the original one

649
03:00:23.120 --> 03:00:38.560
there. He knew that it was going to change the flow of right and he wanted to go up a block high dam safety and that's the name of the agency. >> It's not just the dam. It'll never pass. he wanted to do it um you know a higher thing and we've since talked to the former director of dam safety and he

650
03:00:38.560 --> 03:00:53.279
kind of agreed that yeah you guys are probably right but there are other things that do need to be done to that lake to make it like again switch all of the drains going into the lake like they did at the second lake you know so there are multiple things so you need to hire an engineering firm to do some

651
03:00:53.279 --> 03:01:10.640
exploratory work and to do something like like that so >> but I think that should be a listen it's not it's not like it's not on my list already >> it is on my Put some on the list. You've >> always been on the list. I'll never vote on the list. But I am making this my list. >> And I will talk about this at every

652
03:01:10.640 --> 03:01:26.000
meeting until it is done. >> You know what, Rich? Do yourself a favor. Ask Casey how much it would cost to fix Dear Head Lake. >> I don't care how much it costs. That's the extra thing. It's not going to be $96 million. I can guarantee you that. >> Right. It won't be. No, it won't be.

653
03:01:26.000 --> 03:01:47.040
>> They got to tear up the whole damn dam and redo it. >> No. Thank you. I'm done. Okay. >> Okay. >> Very good. Come on, guys. Let us get to this. >> Yes. >> State your name.

654
03:01:47.040 --> 03:02:02.000
>> Certainly. >> Barry Bender. I'm not saying anything else. >> Um, >> thank you for your comments. [laughter] >> Got you, Steve. Many moons ago, I was on uh I guess what would you call it? It's a commission. you were the layers on economic >> development

655
03:02:02.000 --> 03:02:19.359
>> economic development commission. Um does that exist? Did they have any input to any of this? Because do they exist? >> Is it would it be a good idea to have them exist again? >> Well, you >> for this for this type of thing because I remember when I was on we talked about various >> you could say it but it's I mean at this

656
03:02:19.359 --> 03:02:35.200
point the it's too late in the process at this >> but I'm saying for the future, >> right? We can look into it, but we'll get the details on this. >> I could tell you why. Yeah, I could tell you why that doesn't work, but I don't you couldn't find volunteers. >> Volunteers. >> Really? No one. >> You have to have a certain class of

657
03:02:35.200 --> 03:02:51.920
individuals just like the planning board and you you had nobody willing to want to do it. >> Yeah. >> The environment. >> My opinion is it would be basically a place where you would start earlier. >> We can look at it. >> Yes. you know, I don't want to get into the whole details, you know, but so the

658
03:02:51.920 --> 03:03:07.760
it was recommended by the envir the econom when I was on that that uh board to sell the Wharton House property if you were >> Yeah, I remember that. >> You were right there. >> I was right there. >> Okay. >> Mhm. Yes. >> I I wasn't hot on it. >> Anyway, um thank you for your comments.

659
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>> Thank you. >> Okay. just like to get to the question. >> I'll be very quick. Robert Samuel, um just a couple things discussed because we were talking about amendments to this. I just want to reiterate I think on top of mentioning about the potential

660
03:03:24.319 --> 03:03:41.200
tax hike that this will incur under the Yes. directly after that. We should mention that non-Lacy residents will have access to this as well and that um and that you may have to pay a membership on top of the taxes to

661
03:03:41.200 --> 03:03:57.120
actually go as a Lacy resident. And under no, it was mentioned before, but I want to make sure it's noted that we should put that voting no, a reason could be that you don't feel you have enough information. That that should be strictly there.

662
03:03:57.120 --> 03:04:13.520
It was mentioned before. I'm just mentioning again. I think that's very important. You literally said that that should be a reason someone should vote now. >> What sometimes what we >> can put into a question and not put into a question and our feelings are shame of it is is sometimes even legally is two

663
03:04:13.520 --> 03:04:30.880
totally different animals. I don't >> but that's but that's not I mean to say you feel that that's a that's a potential reason to vote no. We can't we can't write a qu we got to be careful on how we write a question on whether it sways things. So >> it has to it must be concise. Okay.

664
03:04:30.880 --> 03:04:46.080
>> You're adding a lot of wording and I do appreciate your position with regard to this >> but when you start adding a lot of wording you're just going to make it even more confusing. >> But how is that confusing? I mean these are pretty and I even say that it will

665
03:04:46.080 --> 03:05:03.760
incur. I start saying it potential why you might want to vote. These are the main points that that have been reiterated. >> We're going to have consideration. >> I think we're going to add we're going to add vote on additional language regarding property tax. >> Question. >> That's it.

666
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>> And then I just want to you know because it's mentioned before I know Peter you right away said hey I whatever it goes I'm going to vote with the people. >> I've heard several times many things are on the website. >> Just a suggestion you could put it right on the flash news. Hey, council members

667
03:05:19.760 --> 03:05:36.720
say, "Hey, if the people say it, there you go. We We'll go with the people." >> Well, I'll tell you what. Let's say I have some type of mental breakdown and I vote against the will of the people. I'll fire myself from this desk. >> Okay? >> I'll walk off. >> I am not going against what the people

668
03:05:36.720 --> 03:05:52.240
of this town do. Anyone else can do whatever the hell they want. I'm not doing that. >> Okay? I'm not even saying all saying you know what like I mean you always hear from DC I always saying I'm going to do this way I'm going to do >> so we all said that we all said we're

669
03:05:52.240 --> 03:06:07.680
going to follow the will of the people we all live here as well so we've answered all these questions >> yes >> any further questions >> no that's it >> our lives are here >> this isn't like Washington where people fly in and they spend part of we grew up

670
03:06:07.680 --> 03:06:23.840
here we got roots here we be fooled fools to go opposite of what the people do cuz we got to live with them. We got to have friends dinner with them. >> What are you going What do you What are you going like this for? You don't think that we're telling the truth though? >> No, I No, I'm just

671
03:06:23.840 --> 03:06:41.040
>> So, you're new here. >> We've lived here our whole lives and we are going to go with the people. We're going to go with the people. Whatever they say. >> What are the guys with the biggest patience back there? I got to deal with >> patience. >> Not patience. Uh, his mouth passion.

672
03:06:41.040 --> 03:06:57.120
>> Yeah, please get the word right. >> I deal with constantly, which I enjoy. >> But I'll tell you what, you think I'm going to go >> the other way because he's only one of a million. >> I just I just have the suggestion, you know, cuz it was mentioned that you can't put it in the resolution. It would

673
03:06:57.120 --> 03:07:14.319
make it non-binding. So, >> yes, >> they're, you know, mentioning his other platforms. So, >> thank you for coming. >> Appreciate it. >> Anything else? Can I get a motion to close the floor? >> Close the floor. Second. >> All in favor? I. >> All right. >> So, Veronica, so resolution 2026 249

674
03:07:14.319 --> 03:07:29.760
authorizing the county clerk to place a non-binding referendum question on a November election ballot. Veronica, would you please read the new statement with the revisions? >> Yes, I will read the new public question plus the explanatory statement and what a yes vote and no vote means. So, we're

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03:07:29.760 --> 03:07:46.399
changing the word shall at the very beginning to should. Should the township of Lacy be authorized to issue bonds in an amount of 45 million for the construction, furnishing, and equip equipping of a new community recreation facility to be operated in partnership with the YMCA providing recreational,

676
03:07:46.399 --> 03:08:02.080
aquatic, wellness, youth, senior, and community programming to be paid through municipal debt service in an annual operating budget and the amount would be financed through local property taxes. That is the question. Then you have the explanatory statement. So uh I don't

677
03:08:02.080 --> 03:08:18.399
know if everybody has theirs. So the first two paragraphs where it says currently the township of Lacy is exploring a partnership with the YMCA of the Jersey Shore construction approximate 63,000 foot recreation facility within the boundaries of Lacy Township. The project would include, but not limited to, indoor aquatic

678
03:08:18.399 --> 03:08:33.439
facilities, including competitive and recreational pools, fitness and wellness facilities, gymnasiums and indoor sports courts, child care and youth development space, senior citizen programming space, multi-purpose community meeting rooms, walking, running, track and wellness areas, administrative and support

679
03:08:33.439 --> 03:08:48.880
facilities, parking, utilities, site improvements, and related infrastructure. The township share of the project would be financed through the in through the issuance of general obligation bonds in an amount of 45 million subject to all applicable laws and regulations. The township and the

680
03:08:48.880 --> 03:09:05.279
YMCA will work cooperatively together to ascertain outside funding sources through discretionary funds, grants, and benefactors to reduce the general obligation bonds. So, a yes vote means you favor the township of Lacy proceeding to borrow the 45 million through the issuance of general

681
03:09:05.279 --> 03:09:20.319
obligation bonds to construct the new community recreation facility in partnership with the YMCA. If approved and the township committee subsequently decides to prov to proceed, the township would own and participate in the development of the facility pursuant to

682
03:09:20.319 --> 03:09:37.200
a negotiated agreement with the YMCA, which would be responsible for operating the facility and providing recreational, aquatic, wellness, youth, senior, and community programming. The ownership of the facility will be the township of Lacy. The final operating responsibilities, membership structure, maintenance, obligations, and public

683
03:09:37.200 --> 03:09:53.680
access provisions will be established in a formal agreement approved by the township committee. The cost of the bonds will be repaid over time through municipal debt service in the annual operating budget and the amount will be financed through local property taxes. A no vote means the voters are not in favor of the township issuing general

684
03:09:53.680 --> 03:10:09.520
obligation bonds in the amount of 45 million. That is the the question. >> So motion move it. Second. >> That's a motion to approve the question as read. >> Motion to Yeah. Motion to approve the question as read. >> Move it. >> Second.

685
03:10:09.520 --> 03:10:25.520
>> Resolution. Right. >> Resolution. >> Okay. >> Tim moved it. >> Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Please. >> Please. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kerata. >> Yes. >> Mr. Lay. >> Yes. >> Mayor.

686
03:10:25.520 --> 03:10:33.760
>> Yes. >> Motion to adjurnn. Move it. >> Second. All in favor? I >> kill the tape.