Adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings act pursuant to public laws 1975. Said notice was advertised in Hazby Park press and a beacon and was posted on a bolton board showing the time and place in a meeting. We have salute the flag and in a moment of silence
to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Item one, posit permission to use Deerhead Lake parking lot for the Girl
Scouts. >> Girl Scouts are asking permission again for this year to do a Girl Scout cookie sale at Deerhead Lake parking lot every Saturday and Sunday from February 28th to April 12th. Move it. >> Second. >> Mrs. Juliano, [clears throat] >> yes. >> Mr. McDonald, >> yes.
>> Mr. Laray, >> yes. >> Mr. Certo, >> yes. >> Mayor Kenn, >> yes. Item two, discussion regarding fee for concealed carry permits. >> Okay. We have um received um an inquiry from a resident with regards to um refunding the $150 fee that they pay to
the municipality for the um and or not charging one forward when they come in for a concealed um carry permit. Um I we've had our attorney plus um uh former chief Kenny review this and the policy and basically anyone applying for a concealed carry permit gets
fingerprinted. These fingerprints are utilized for our background investigation and there are 20 points that we as the township with one employee has to go through in order to um either approve or deny the concealed carry permit. If we attempting to deny
the permit, then the attorney comes in. And last year alone, we spent $3,300 in attorney fees with regards to um going to court to uh deny permits. Um the uh there are again 20 points that the back the uh clerk has to go through, not not
the municipal clerk, but the clerk in the police department that has to go through in order to conduct the background check on the um person who is requesting the concealed carry permit. Um the let me just over here the New Jersey State Police conducts the instate fingerprints and from there the
application is forwarded to the township. The records clerk then contacts the applicant and goes over the requirements and processes with the application via telephone or in person. The records clerk also processes and collects the fee associated with it. The application is then forwarded to the full-time individual who then reviews
the 20 milestones on the on the application and through the registration system. So, um, again, there is a cost component to the township with regards to us collecting the $150 fee per member. Um, there was over 200 applications for concealed carry last
year that we had to go through. And we do have a full-time individual that his his entire job is related to um, gun permits. So, that's one of the things with regards to the $150 that covers his time. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, Mr. Connor and you draft.
>> No, I had an opportunity to review my opinion letter on stand behind the opinion that I rendered. Um, [snorts] it is what it is. >> Does anybody on public want to speak on this on behalf of this? >> Yes. >> Please state your name for the record.
>> See you guys again. >> Um, I understand what Veronica is saying. we take her points uh um for the record. I understand what the concept is and why the points are being made in the Here's where I come from. Um
the way that um permits have been issued up until 2022, they weren't they didn't exist. For all intents and purposes, there was no path to conceal car permit in the state of New Jersey, much less rac.
Um, once the brewin decision was decided, the the state decided to have, for lack of a better way of putting it, a convention or a tantrum and change the law and drastically change the rates. Now, I understand that um this person
needs to get paid, but when you come right down to it, um even in other places, [clears throat] uh it's a refund. If the person doesn't ask for the refund, they don't get one. So um it's one of those things where uh
even while this entire process [snorts] being litigated federal court with third circuit being the next time for the amb court that this case is going to be dealt with. Um I I don't see
it as in the township's interest to even be involved in that level of exposure to this problem. if that makes any sense. >> So, what I'm trying to explain here is that [snorts] in reality, what do you really need to
issue any of these permits? You need um a positive or a green ny check and you need a positive or a green mental health check. If you get both of those, then the rest is cursory. It may be in the statute right now and it may be the reason why we're doing it, but let's
face facts, 43 other states don't do this. They don't. And you're also talking about somebody who's already has a firearms ID card, which they had to go through this process for, get both of those green checks, and then if they happen to have a handgun, they had to
have a permit to purchase a handgun, which is also two green checks in a row. If the person with that level of green checks so much as like gets angry at somebody in the parking lot, not only they not getting their permit to carry, they're not going to get to keep their
firearms. So, what are we talking about here? At the end of the day, here's the deal. The legislature, they failed to do their statute properly. And when they failed to do their statute properly, I think it's incumbent upon us as a Republican myself
to remind the legislature that they need to read the bills they write and they need to dot their eyes and they need to cross their tees. Legally, the town has no should have no issue with um refunding the fee. That's where I come from. If you have any questions, I'd be
happy to do my best to answer. >> Do I have any questions? >> No. >> Well, the the our attorney informed us that the statute says shall. And having worked as many years as he has, there's a difference between shall and may. So, it leaves no real wiggle room. I am not
an attorney. I always defer to Senator Connor, but it sounds to me like our hands are tied in this one, even if we want to do something the other way. >> Well, I would answer that by saying I would go further. It's not shall it's must. The statute says you must collect
the fee. And that's true. You must, but the state did not tell the town what it can or cannot do with that fee once it's collected. >> No, it does. >> The statute says that it shall be used to defay the cost of of the application. >> Right. and does the
>> our chief of police >> is it really $150 ultimately will more than that honestly with the paperwork involved with the paperwork just alone that goes into it >> and that is all it's arbitrary and
capricious to even do that work >> could you imagine if you couldn't go to church because they called your neighbor and said hey this guy like to go to church [clears throat] um what [snorts] do you think he put you down as a reference well I don't know about Bob you No, he's kind of Not you,
Bob. [laughter] >> Well, I don't know about Bob. You know, he he's a little he doesn't uh take care of his lawn or he doesn't take care of his bushes or whatever. Or he was mean to me once when I was backing out of my driveway. Could you imagine if you wanted to, [snorts] you know, start a
newspaper in town and you couldn't because you needed a permit from the town to do it? Is there any other permit in town that deals with a bill of rights issue? Whether it be permits to permits to protest or any other permits revolving a right that actually is
anywhere near the cost of this permit. >> So um of course I have sympathy um um with the state um anybody you know always keeping adding fees and charging more um for services. Um, but I think I think um, unless anybody else is
objecting, um, I think we look at it from straight economics and what is it it's costing the township and you're sort of asking the the the entire township to foot the bill for for one for an officer doing background checks >> because the bill should exist. >> Yeah. So, I'm been I again I have
sympathy for you. Um, >> that's up to the courts to decide as you have said to go into the third circuit. >> You make a >> courts will decide that. >> Great argument. Again, this is my opinion. That's um maybe something we could revisit again down the road, but I don't think right now that we'd be willing to do it um or you know take
this up as a refund, but it's just straight economics just because I know what our budget looks like and um we just look out for the whole township when we're doing the budget. And I understand it's a nominal amount to you, but we you know, we have residents here all the time complain about the school taxes. So, it's it's just a matter of
giving back. Uh there's a lot of fees that we collect in the township that I would like to have returned. and also our COA fees. Our COA fees are now almost $10,000 for one house. So, I have great deal of sympathy for for uh you know, the state charging more for fees,
but I and even though yours is a you know, you're asking for a modest [clears throat] amount back. Um like I said, I'm paying $10,000 for a house to build. That's not fair. It could go straight to COA. Right. >> I mean, as to your your assertion with the cost, and again, I'm on your Listen,
I don't like doing this at all as far as this item goes. I I feel for you like Mayor Kenneth, when you're talking about nominal costs. I could tell you that one of the highest costes we highest cost we deal with as a committee is just medical. Now, I don't know what the person that does that over there earns.
Maybe I should, but I can tell you some medical packages are upwards of 60 grand right now before we pay out a dime >> of salary, whether [clears throat] it's hourly. I mean, so there is a cost. You have a human over there. There's a cost. >> Well, I'm just glad that you know, well,
number one, I will say something about the Township Police Department. I want to congratulate them on nine days on average. From what I'm hearing, that's a good thing. It was 242 days for myself, >> which is ridiculous. And I I guess I'll end it with this. You
know, I'm just glad that it's not 250 years ago and we have to pay for a permit in order to show up at Lexington and conquer >> so we could defend this nation. We're about to celebrate 250 years >> of this experiment. And this was never part of the experiment.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And Mike, [clears throat] you hit on a big point, too. Um whether something should be required by the state or not. And I know you've heard me say this before because I've said it here. I've said it at other meetings. My first year up here is dealing with stuff
that we feel the state shouldn't be doing to us and different things like that. So a lot of times even though we got to make certain decisions, they may not even be what we're comfortable with [clears throat] and seems like we're fighting more battles with what the state's trying to shove down our throats
than what we're happy with. And uh it it's amazing how much time, effort, and cost this is, but I'm sure we will be revisiting this issue. >> I hope so because it' be one way to remind the state that we're here. >> Yeah. And it there seems to be some lack
of hearing between somewhere up and down the middle of the state from the east to the west something gets lost in the translations. This would be a good way for me to hear it. >> That's all I have. Thank you, Mike.
[clears throat] >> Good evening. I'm Daniel Francisco. I'm the mayor in Englishtown, New Jersey. We're the [clears throat] bureau that pioneered this measure. Um, so I can tell with all due respect to the administrator, I can already tell by the tone of what the background conversations were, and almost
inevitably, it's always [clears throat] the police departments are the culprit of why the dialogue goes in this direction. So, what Michael just acknowledged to you, I don't think was addressed. Do you know the distinction between 2C58-4, which governs this permit, and 2C58-3,
which governs your firearms purchaser identification card? So, the reason that this $150 charge is even in front of you right now, is because of my court order in Francisco v. Cook in federal court, the legislature took my court order from Judge Oxley of Mammoth County and
crafted the Carykiller bill in 2022 that created this $150 fee. Just like Michael acknowledged, and I don't think you guys understood, before 2022, the FBI, which is under 2C58-3, was $5. Y
>> the carry under 2C58-4 was $50. [clears throat] Your current FPIC after the bill from my case is $50. The I Does anybody understand what the distinction is between the check done on
the FBI and the carry application? Does anybody know? >> I was just wondering. I hope this goes further because >> so far. >> It's a trick question, by the way. I kind of figured that. >> It seems like you just came up and told us that you're the reason that there's $150 fee.
>> I am indirectly, [laughter] >> not by my wish. >> I I didn't want to get confused there. >> No, but it is because they took my court order and abused it and copied it into the legislature. But the functional question that was just glossed over is the check that you're taking $50 for, which you're saying is solvent in your
in your budget. When we take $50 to do the background check on Michael and do the same exact things that you're doing on the carry permit check, you're not losing money with the 50 bucks. But what you just told Michael is that the town is losing money when they charge 150 to
do the same exact check. There is no financial argument to defend this because you're doing that check prior to doing the carry check to even have the privilege to do the carry check. It [clears throat] is functionally the same thing. How is it possible logically for
your police department or your your municipality to lose money on a carry permit application but not on the FBI? >> So, >> are you just like bleeding money every time someone files an FBI in this? I mean this is I mean this issue is
personal to you and so you know a lot about the ins and outs of it. I do not. I could I'm sure I can tell you all sorts of things about our COA if we're lousy. I'm a bill. It's not analogous because this is a wholly similar process. >> I'm just saying so different price points. >> So and this so just on the the surface
of it we we we have an officer that's only doing background checks and and you know for for guns. So would we have to hire that officer if he was not doing background checks? So there is a there is a cost just for have an officer in there just doing gun permits, >> right?
>> But the logic is if nobody applied for carry permits and in your town you got 2,000 FBI applications, you'd be doing the same exact check and you take 50 bucks and you're saying you're okay financially with that. >> But if those same 200 people do uh carry
permit applications, you're again doing the same procedural check. [clears throat] Mayor, I don't think there's no difference. >> Mayor, I don't think you're getting 150, but you're saying we need to charge the 150 to stay solvent on the transaction with all your municipal labor. That's inherently not possible. They're the
they're two they're the same process just under a different statute. >> Mayor, I don't think they're saying it's okay >> to spend the kind of money they do. >> That's the argument they made to Michael just now. >> I have to pay the cops. You have to pay this, you have to pay that. >> Right. But nobody's saying that they're
okay with the fee that's charged for that, >> right? >> And you're absolutely right. It's a losing proposition to begin with, >> the $50 or the 150 >> for the initial permit >> with the $50. >> With the $50. >> So it's not enough money. You're saying that the state is prescribed
more than $50 for >> I think it would be a [clears throat] reasonable conclusion based on what has to be done in order to to process that application. >> Uh respectfully, sir, that's a novel argument. I've been around the state and I've argued this in front of 15 different municipalities and our lawyers
are both I've never heard an attorney or a public official ever say the New Jersey legislature is not taxing our gun owners [laughter] enough. We need to charge more to cover no two years ago. >> Do you think do you think the cost of processing the initial permit
>> is covered by $50? You think it should be zero? >> I think it should be zero. That's what I did in my time. >> Well, I can never argue with you, >> but from a Michael just made the same argument and it was ignored. That's a it's it's not ignored. >> It's a two-way and a one, right? >> And mayor, let me ask you this. What
happens about a a denial? >> What about the cost of a denial? >> What does >> somebody f somebody applies for a permit >> and they're denied and they appeal it? >> Sure. Superior court, >> correct? Who pays that? >> Who it goes to superior courtes?
Who cares? Thousands attorney attorney that goes to superior court. Your your municipality is not liable for that. >> Yes, it is. >> To an applet. >> No. No. That's You're incorrect. >> You have to have attorney represent. You have to pay the attorney bill. >> Sure. If you deny them for some ethical
reason, then they get the right to appeal and you should defend it. >> Right. So now we're not. So it should be more in case people. >> You're not understand. I don't think you're understanding what the appeal process is. >> I know what the appeal I went through it. I'm the litigant in federal court that fought for carry rights. I'm the
one that was in. So you so so you in fact filed an appeal of your denial, >> right? I'm interested in hearing >> and >> what was the basis of denial? Just by curiosity. >> I'm sorry. >> One 150 bucks and >> we understand where Mike's coming from
and for you to stand up here and say that you're almost some of the things the way you're perceiving it we did address with Mike in the proper way and you're twist you're twisting that right very much so you very much so. Okay. But with that, just take $150. Okay, this is
more a principal thing because $150 in today's world covers nothing. >> It really does. >> Just let me finish. Let me finish. >> Okay, >> I'm addressing I'm not breaking it down to 50. The other 100, nothing. 150 bucks
you pay for a permit. Your average cop if he spends two hours on that 150 does not cover that. That's just simple economics. And I'm sorry I deal with simple math, not all this
other stuff. >> I think that's where we're all coming down. No one applies, but they only apply for FBI. Are you just taking a math? >> You you wanted to hear from us. So let us talk. >> Legislature changes it. Unless the legislature changes the >> $150. I understand the the concept of
where Mike's coming from, >> right? >> Okay. But at the same token to say that $150 if that's what's got to be charged is more than to cover the fees. It don't like Mr. Connor said, if we got to go to court, the town has to send somebody,
which means everybody in here is contributing. It's coming out of our pocket [snorts] somehow. I don't always look at line item things. I look at a pot of money and it comes out. It's no different than your household. If you if
you don't have a place to pull it from, you shouldn't be. And no way should >> 29,000 people be paying for 2,000. >> I understand the concept behind it, but if you want to break it down to $5 here, $50 here, you can do that all day long.
I look at it as simple math. $150 doesn't cover anything because if a officer spends two hours on it, we're in the hole already. >> So again, [snorts] getting back because Phil the philosophy is important. I respect your answer. So the $50 fee that the
>> and I respect yours, but I just don't agree. >> Right. But functionally, we haven't answered then. So from the legislator, from the elected officials, not from the attorney, if 50 is too low, are you saying you wish you could charge 150 for the FBI's as well? Like if you had that power, you would.
>> No, that's not what we're saying. >> You just said it's not enough. >> All I said I did not say that. You're twisting my words. Yes, for example. You just gave me >> 150 doesn't cover our >> too much on this one. >> Right. You're asking for 150 back and I'm saying it doesn't. >> I'm asking a philosophical question of
what your number is. What number? At what point? What? Why aren't you upset about the $50? >> I'm not upset about it at all. Our >> our our number is what the law says it is. That's our number and that's what we have to follow. We don't have a choice here. That makes Let me let me finish. >> You do a thousand. That would be what >> if that's what the law says? Absolutely.
>> The state of New Jersey is doing >> at that point. That's all I needed. If you're just going to say if somebody else tells me to do something, I'll >> wait. You have no choice. If if the state of New Jersey and they pass it, says it's $5,000. Guess what? We got to charge. >> You don't though. That's the whole point. You are a body. You can take your
money and say, "We don't think this is right. We will accept it because it's statutoily required. Buy 2C58-4." And just like you pay your cops and your garbage and your DPW workers, you can all lot money and say, "We think this is functionally and morally wrong, and we will refund the people who apply." It
could be a fraction of the fee, can be the whole fee. I'm not advocating for a number, just to be clear. I'm advocating philosophy. That's what's more important to me. And the point is, no one here has a number because you collect 50 on the other permit. And you're not crying about that. You're fine with it because
the legislature told you that's the number, so you're okay with it. But when they tell you it's 150 for the identical check, the identical operational process from your police department, you're saying, "No, actually that's also good." They can't both be right. Only one can be correct. Now, if you told me we'd
crunch the numbers, and in our town it cost $70. I would respect it philosophically if you at least said, "We think it's $70 across the whole way to do this." That's at least consistent. But you're telling me you both like it when it's 50 and 150 and they're both right and neither are wrong. it at some
point there's philosophy like Mike said if I want to go to church there's five rights guaranteed in the first amendment one of them is religion petition my government for redress of grievances speech press all that stuff if I go to church I don't have to pay anything to go to church it's a constitutional right
that's the logic of refunding this because we believe in the philosophy of the natural rights of our residents so I respect that you may have a different number and it's always police departments that insert themselves into this who aren't elected officials you are they are your employees to answer to you. So, as a burrow, you are the
leaders. What I'm wondering is what you think is morally right to charge. Not what Trenton told you. What do you think is morally right to charge your residents? >> Number one, we never said we wanted to charge more. >> Okay. >> Number two, we didn't send set a number.
All we said, and hear this real clearly because I want you to hear it clearly. Why this guy's back there taping it. All we said is the 150 is to help cover our costs. Period. We're not complaining because we're losing money or anything
else like that. We're not debating the number. We hear Mike. We're going to address it. We're going to see how it plays out in court. We don't agree with a lot of the stuff. You made a comment. No matter who says this is the amount, you're going to pay it. That's not what Tim said.
>> Tim, he did not say that. He said this video. He said because Trenton tells us this. >> The state, right? >> No, that's not what I said. >> I said it. That's what the law says. I didn't say Trenton. I said the law. So the law No, it's not a figure of speech. >> Well, no, it's not. If the law is passed, signed by the the presiding
governor, we should follow it. Plain and simple. >> So if they say, >> didn't we take an oath to do that? >> I'm sorry. >> Didn't we take an o there's a lot of stuff you if you heard me in that chair last year where Mayor Kennes is there's a lot of stuff I disagree with Trenton. That's was part of my comments. I think Trenton's on there and you're empowered
to nullify that legally. You have a legal path to do it. You're just choosing not to. That's my >> We're also a committee form of government, which I don't know how English Town is. Are you elected mayor? >> Yes. Or bor elected director. >> So, you know, there's a difference in type of government. >> Yes.
>> We're a committee form. We do not represent each one of us don't represent a part of the town. We represent the whole town. each one of us. That's what I like about this form of government. So when we look at something, we're looking at everybody.
The philosophical part of this, none of us say that we don't agree with that part of it. It's just right now the question is is whether we're going to refund the 150. And that's what we're addressing
tonight. And you know, it's been explained up and down. We hear what you're saying, but you also got to remember this is a committee form of government. All five of us represent every section of this town. And we may look at things a little
different than other towns do because in whether you got ward systems or something like that, um, a lot of times the elected official represents a part of the town and it >> No, we don't have we don't have that. >> Well, that's good. Well, I guess I'll just say informally and I'll I'll I
don't want to eat up the whole time period. >> Do each of you individually believe that they should be paying the 150 and do or do you think it should be something south of that number? >> I I don't think any of us to be honest with you have a number in our head
saying this is what you should pay. We're just saying this is this is the number that was created passed down to us told that this is what we were doing and whether or not it's completely taking care of our expenses or not is a whole another ball game. Okay. But we've
we're dealing with it and right now we don't feel like we're going to give back that 150 because we do have employees that have to take care of this paperwork. >> It's as simple as that >> for $5 two years ago. So again, >> but again it came down and it ch you
know we we're losing money at $5. Okay, >> but that's my argument philosophically if Trenton cuz they would do this if they say it's $500. You'd be like we have to take it because Trenton allowed us to do this. So therefore, sorry residents of Lacy. >> Well, let me say this to you. We fought
we fought Trenton a lot of stuff and it's really paying the price for it one way or another. We've paid the price here in town. So, what number north of 150 would you >> I don't have a number. I don't have a number. >> There's no $1,000. You would keep >> I have no idea.
>> I should have the conviction to be able to say I believe this is wrong and this is where I would stop. >> I do have conviction, sir. I do have a lot of conviction. My conviction is is this is what we've been told is the basis of my employees. My employees that have to do the work to cover this
paperwork >> cost more than that $150. Okay. >> I would think more or less that that that's the side we're coming down on is that $150 is not unreasonable for to offset the costs for the police department. >> And I'll tell you what, >> that's the position. I won't agree, but
I at least respect you're the first person to say I think that's the right. >> Well, sir, it is it's a choice just like a garage permit, a building permit. I I think the person applying for the permit should bear the cost and not the neighbors in the town. Not the rate. >> If we don't charge that $150, then it's
on every one of these other people that live in this town. >> But if they say it's $500, we go along with I can stop. >> I can actually answer that question directly. We were brought a concern from a member of the public who we respect very much of 150. That's
all we looked at. We did did our research. We did our due diligence and we found come to find out that it's costing us more than that. We're fine with that. That it's costing more than that and we're not asking for more and no way have we really app uh
perceive that. It just we're asked about refunding the 150. We did a bunch of research. We went to the experts. We got some legal opinions and right now it's not covering our co all our costs with especially if we got to go to court. We're not nobody here is going to
say and you know what we don't want to know what it's really costing us because if it is costing us do you want us to tell you that too? No. >> I I again I respect you you and you. You've all said your position clearly. The 150 is a fair number in your mind.
I'm assuming it's the same for you sir. different. >> I would never want to see >> then this is just a philosophical difference. I respect that. But I just want the public should know that you guys think this is a rightful thing to charge your residents that they do have a duty to pay you a tax in order to
exercise a second amendment right, a natural right of self-defense. And if that's your position, I respect it. I don't agree. But at some point, you should wrestle with your morality. When I say this hyperbolic morality at all, it is not to be cute.
I'm not trying to anger you. I'm not trying to upset you. If I said it was $5,000, you'd say, "That's ridiculous." Right? There's got to be a number where you think it's wrong to tax people for a natural right. To me, it's zero. All the other rights, most of them, you're if if I want to refuse a right to a search
from a police officer, I don't have to pay for that right. It's my innate right in the Bill of Rights, or to stay silent when accused of a crime, go to church, all of these things. It's only this right that bodies of of governing bodies find it okay to abuse and tax people
for. That's why the second amendment community is tired of getting battered in the state. That's why municipalities are getting creative in pushing back against the legislature with nullification schemes like this. So that's where the basis where we're coming from. It's because we love the residents, not because we want to hose
them with money uh with with expenditures. It's it's a philosophical argument to say that you believe it's okay to do. That's just where I'm coming from. But I respect that you've all stated your positions on the record. >> And you know what? And really, and like
I say, I believe in the philosophical side, too. >> But really, like like I said, I know it's costing us more than $150. >> It's not costing us. Do you know it takes it takes five minutes to do that background check unless you're paying them $500 an hour or >> like I say, I look at the bucket. So, I
got to look at the legal fees, the whole nine yards in the whole thing. And I'm comfortable with loving my residents knowing damn well that this process when I add the whole ball of wax together has cost us more than we're taking in. I'm not looking to raise it.
>> So you're talking about loving the residents. >> Well, you legally can't raise it. >> Whether I can >> statue you're not allowed to change. >> I know that. >> But you made the comment and I'm addressing it. >> I'm comfortable with losing money at $150.
So, yes, I love the residents and if the court case says that we got to give it back or however that plays out, I'm fine with that, too. But let's see where it goes. >> Yeah, I agree with >> Mayor, you're a you're an excellent speaker. You made a compelling case. You're one of the uh sharper people I've
seen come up in that microphone in the past years. >> Is that a lot of practice? [laughter] >> I'm just obviously I'm a litigant in three different federal cases. >> Are you an attorney? >> I live and breathe this. Uh I should be. I'm not like your passion. >> Thank you. All right. I respectfully appreciate.
>> Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> This evening. >> Good evening. Alexander Rubian, New Jersey Second Amendment Society. >> Bob, was there an issue with me recording? >> No. >> Okay. >> I mean, I'll pay a fee to record. >> Just give me your price. >> No,
150. >> We're not We're not kidding. >> We're recording. >> We're recording. We we we record it. >> Yeah, we're recorded now. >> I know. That's why I was shocked. >> No, I was being targeted. >> No, only cuz you were taking nice pictures of us. So, you know, you never know.
>> Well, I'll send you the photo if you like. [snorts] >> I don't do >> for a fee. Of course. >> You know what? If you post it on social media, I won't see it anyway because I'm one of the few that stays as far away from that as I can. >> Putting uh our banter aside, and I I
appreciate the levity. Uh, but this is a very serious matter and [snorts] I'm just very curious if this same narrative or the same conversation would exist if we were discussing a voter ID law or some type of um uh ID to exercise specific religion. It would be uh very
easy to take those conversations and post them as anti-American racist bigotry and so forth. But why is it whenever we discuss the second amendment, somehow we have no problem bearing expenses, waiting months for permits, paying hundreds of dollars out of
pocket. U Mayor Kennes, uh you made a you made a comment about the $150 not seeming outrageous, but for some people it is. If you're making $20 an hour, you have to work like a full day just to be able to apply, let alone have to pay for
your your FID card. And uh there's a lot of people that do suffer through disparate impact that can't afford this. As the largest second amendment organization in New Jersey, we're constantly inundated from low-income families that they can't afford to permits, they can't take time off of work to go and apply and go to the
police department, uh get fingerprinted and so forth. Uh if if the if if the conversation if the argument here is about labor and covering your expenses, then I hope to see everybody here at Trenton advocating for constitutional carry. where you don't have to apply for
a permit like dozens of other states have and their violence has actually [clears throat] gone down and you can carry you can buy a gun as long as you're not prohibited. All this redundant background checks exist because the legislature wants to offiscate the issue and make it as
complex as possible specifically to target a certain class of people specifically. And if you don't believe me, I re I recommend looking up Arthur Sills, who was the attorney general of New Jersey up to 1970, who responded to
what was happening in our inner cities in the black communities by saying those people should not have guns. And then he was the mastermind of this whole process that you are all defending today. At the end of the day, you are defending it. Bob, you made a comment earlier and
I'm not trying to pick on you, but seems like you have a problem with recording, which is a first amendment. >> That actually, you know what? I'm going to clear that up right now. I was only busting because I was watching you. I was answering him. So, you know what? Do with it what you want. >> I I heard some size. I mean, I'm a very
sarcastic person. We [clears throat] have to bring a little >> And that's okay. I like I like humor >> and I like addressing sarcasm. >> Thank you. [laughter] And just to defend myself and >> and I and and I think you're doing a very good job so far. >> Thank you. And just to support your
argument and and in your case right now, Harvard did a study, the understanding and the response to sarcasm is an indicator of high IQ. [snorts] >> I got that one wrong here. >> Okay. [laughter] Well, you just made my Yeah, I saw what you did there. That was pretty funny. [snorts]
>> Humor. But uh you made well again I'm not picking on you but you made a lot of good points and I want to try to respond to them which is if you have such disagreements with what's going on with Trenton as many of you said then this is your opportunity to say Trenton we don't support what you're doing we're going to
refund the $150 just out of principle. Mayor you brought up building permits and and so forth. That's not a constitutional right. Uh, the council was also talking about it costs more to do this than we're actually taking in. Well, I don't have
any children. Well, that I know about. There was spring break 2008, but she never called back. So, >> humor. Come on. Come on. Humor. Come on. >> I should have taped that. >> Yeah. Well, you have your recording. No, but joking aside, I don't have any
children, but why am I paying $15,000 a year, 60% of my taxes go to the school system? >> I can answer that one. >> Thank you. Please. I would love to hear >> because somebody paid your when you went to school for you >> and look how I turned out. >> It's it's a
>> finally Veronica laugh out of you. All right. >> It's a circle of life. I mean you know we I don't [clears throat] have I mean now it's grandchildren but I mean it's a circle of life. Somebody paid for us to go. It's always the same argument for probably as long as school taxes have ended up the biggest problem with school
taxes is the amount of them. May I ask the administrator you was it 200 uh concealed carry permits or was it 2,000? >> Um it was 200. So for 2025 it was uh 201 with nine 201 plus nine denials and then
the other permits um 713 >> for the concealed carry permit or was it a 200 was >> 2011 was the concealed car. >> So you're talking roughly about $30,000 more than that. And if you were to refund at 150, >> I can't help but point out is our budget
is the budget here in Lacy so tight that $30,000 will make a difference in regard to the permitting on the work that the police officers are already doing. This officer is already assigned to handle firearms. >> Please don't be talking in the courtroom while someone's speaking. I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll take
care of them after. In any case, uh, in conclusion, as I mentioned before, these laws were specifically designed and created by Arthur Sills in in 1966 specifically to prevent certain people from getting guns and from being able to carry guns because up to 1966, you never had to
apply for a permit. And the federal FBI is already doing these background checks. We can also have the conversation. I would love to see all the leadership step up and say, why are we paying our police officers to do the same work that the federal government's already doing? Talk about double dipping. I'm paying my taxes to the federal government to do the same job
the local police departments in the state of New Jersey are already doing. That's another conversation we you know that >> on a lot of things >> on a lot of things. >> So what I'm hearing is we all want to work together on this on making Trenton more efficient so that more money would go back into the pocket of Lacy. But in
conclusion, as I mentioned before, why these laws exist, let's be on the right side of history here, not to continue supporting this disparit impact that's taking money, usurping money from people that want to exercise a basic constitutional right. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> I just No, it's not a question. It just you said something that remind me of something Mike said. Um FBI, federal government doing all this stuff. That's probably one of the reasons now they're getting their gun permits so quick versus it going to the federal government
>> that they're getting. >> Yeah, >> he's right. You're doing it two times. You're doing it. >> But how long does it take to get through the federal government? >> Yeah, a few minutes. It's >> take weeks. >> Other states, majority of other states that do the federal background check through the NYX and it's done within
minutes. In New Jersey, people wait weeks if not months. like Carol Bound from the town of Berlin. She died waiting for her permit as her as she went to the police department every day. And those are the kind of issues that uh uh we always fight for on a daily basis. And that's why we exist as an organization to help protect people and
to help fight for our constitutional rights. >> We do appreciate your you know, >> thank you. >> Appreciate we're here. So if anybody needs any information, please feel free to reach out to us. >> Thank you very much. All three of you. >> Tony.
>> Can I have that again? I missed it. >> Tony Rock. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, I'm not as polished as uh these last couple of guys. Um somebody who discovered that I like shooting guns and saw the costs that are involved with it and the steps that are involved with
it. uh for everybody here in the town. The residents that come to you for their concealed carry permits are already taxpaying citizens. They pay for this building. They pay for the police station. They pay for the police department. And I understand you
say that you have a full-time officer just to handle that. What other jobs do the police here uh go out to your residents and say, uh, yeah,
we'd be happy to, uh, investigate this breakin of your home, uh, just as soon as you come and give us $150 check. >> So, I just want to say that it's a a full-time clerical person that a retired police lieutenant that is doing the
background, not a a uniform investigation. >> Okay. So, yeah, but I'm just I don't because the pay scale is different between an officer and this clerical person. So, I just want to make that clear, too. So it's less clerical first. >> Yeah. But we're still not covering our costs. >> Okay. So, uh, and just like with the
schools, um, you know, the costs are covered by somebody else, you know, not the person attending the school. Okay? And it should be the same way for the concealed carrier permit. I understand you're saying, well, we don't want to pass the cost on, but you do it with
everything else. When you need to hire an additional police officer, you don't go and say, "Oh, you know what? We've got this one street that's a problem. Raise their taxes to pay for the police officer." No. Everybody pays for it. Not just a
couple of people, not a couple of bad eggs. Okay? You don't send somebody to collect a check to investigate something. So, why would you do it with a constitutional right? You guys are are are the first line of
defense for the residents against everything out there as their local government. You're the first line of defense. Giving them this refund is probably the least you can you can
do. I I understand it's going to cost the local government something and it's going to be spread out amongst other people, but it's a constitutional right. Why should we have to pay four and five times
uh for background checks just to be able to defend ourselves? It's not it's not fair. and for, you know, for the town to say, "Well, we need this money just because you can."
It's it's just not the right thing to do. Um, now there's 15 other towns that have seen that it's right to give back this money. I'd happy [snorts] to provide you.
>> Yeah, we're aware of some of the towns. We know South River, Mike has been filling this in on some of the >> South Toms River, Tom's River, which one of the largest uh issuers of concealed carry permits in the state uh is doing it uh Beachwood. So there's local towns,
there's towns spread all over. Uh so it is do certainly doable. Uh when we talk about uh you know whether you shall collect, may collect, must collect uh and what has to be done with the money. There's 15 other towns funding uh these fees. So it's certainly doable as far as
a legal standpoint. Um, but it's the right thing to do to to refund this money back to the residents >> and you did you did a good job. >> And the one thing even though you heard our comments up here, we did not we did
say we we will probably down the road address this again. We're not saying this is we're our >> why why down the road? I mean, this is this is something that's it's >> right now. Right now, we took the issue at hand. We did our homework. We did our
things. We're We've seen the numbers. We're looking at it this way. We know the court case. We know some towns are for it. I don't I I agree that people should be in Trenton fighting this. That doesn't mean it's got to be us five because this goes on all the time with a
lot of issues um that need to be fought. And when we talk about, you know, uh, you know, you just brought up the schools and it's 60 62% of our tax bill. I go to a meeting
and there's 20 people in it. That's why things don't always get done because people aren't out there. I I really uh applaud you all for the fight you're fighting because not enough people are
getting out there and fighting it, going to Trenton and doing these things and they need to because nothing's more disturbing than not being able to find people to run for election to change things. People want to say a lot. They get on
the internet, but yet they won't put their money where their mouth is and go to Trenton. And like I say, I and there's the group you see in here are pretty much the group you see at most things in our town. A town of 29,000.
Why is that? >> You know, and this is a passionate thing. I understand it a thousand%. But, you know, we got to get people together if it's that passionate and try to make a difference because as we see,
not much changes a lot of times. Right now, we're we're making our decisions on what we know right now. And we're not saying it should be more or anything like that. It's just that this is where we are at this time. We hear you, but you bring up a lot of good points. The
other gentleman brought up a lot of good points, but as far as changing things, people got to make the change. And you know the shame of it is is very seldom four or five or six of us it's like working against this wall.
>> You [clears throat] guys you guys made a compelling case. I think you're in the wrong place to make it. I think it has to start and I think you >> did an excellent job. >> You did you all three of you guys were one better than the next. But I want to say the you talk about 15 towns. Maybe I could see you flipping the script in the
state. But right now you have 15 towns. There's 564 towns. So, I have to go based on what my township attorney says because if I don't listen to the township attorney, then I in my mind, I'm 20% of this vote, the system breaks down. So, I I trust his counsel as a
senator and and bar member for a great many decades. So, that's one thing. But if you fight this fight, I mean, you made a compelling case and philosophically I agree with you. But I think more towns need to flip and I think we we need support in Trenton. I'm not sure you're going to get that with
the new governor, but I hope that you do. And like I said, this council is the front line for the people here. So when you say the fight is in Trenton, by adding Lacy to this list of 15 towns and bringing it to 16 and [snorts] then when
we get out to the next town and we add them, the more towns we put on this list, that's how the fight gets won. I >> I would just I mean there, you know, we we you all presented the counter arguments to my you know, they're wellreceived. Um, right now we were
going off, you know, I don't want to say our side, we're going off the >> the financials, >> the financial side, which I think is the wrong way to a second amendment right. >> So I we, you know, we all appreciate and respect your the you know your side of
it. But I think right now um just as we do our budget, we're we are focused on the economic side of it at this point in time. I'm not saying things can't change. They're all compelling arguments, but that's I think I'll speak for everybody exactly, but that's where at least I'm fall on that side where
it's I I don't think it's unreasonable to charge $150 for the cost of a concealed pair car. I I don't want to reitigate the stuff, but at that's at right now. That's all I'm saying. >> Okay. >> And and that goes with your question of why did I say addressing it later?
Because you know what? We looked at it just like Steve just said. You just brought up some compelling arguments. I'm sure we'll have some more discussion in the future. I >> agree. >> But that's not we're not >> right now. It's not happening. You got
all of us, all four of you did very well tonight. You brought up some things that'll create additional discussion, but we were presented with something. We looked at it. We looked at the financial side, the whole nine yards. And that's where we're at right now. >> [clears throat] >> All right. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> Anything else? >> Right. >> All right. Um, anything else for anybody? >> This is the opening. >> Is this in reference to the >> Yes. Okay. >> I just have a comment. Alisa Wallery.
Um, I just wanted to comment on what Bob said about and oh, by the way, congratulations everyone. Happy New Year. About the $150. Um, $150. will fill up my tank four times. $150 will pay my electric bill, my gas bill. $150
will pay for two pairs of good sneakers. So, and that's actually cheap. So, I just wanted to say that $150 is a lot to some people and I'm a staunch supporter of the Constitution. >> Yes. >> So, uh I don't think that we should charge for anything that is on in our
>> And don't get me wrong, I didn't say a lot. $150. I never said $150 is not a lot. I said $150 doesn't cover a lot a lot of times in today's world and that's where I was coming from with that. It's not that the shame of it is where we
live in today. $150 doesn't go far, >> right? >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Thank you for your comments. >> All right. Um, moving along addon I have an add on Veronica. So, uh, this afternoon I got a letter regarding
safe streets. So uh so I don't have an objection signing the letter. It's it's it's promoting um you know walkable paths, bikable paths. I don't have objection signing it. There is some details. This is for Carol from
last week, but there are some details on it that it should be further addressed if we're going to um we'll see what we'll pursue. >> You want me to send the committee that information? >> Yeah, I guess send them that but I don't object to signing the letters.
Next item, Veronica. >> All right. I late this evening after 4:30, actually I received a request through the recreation department, uh, lacrosse. They're having their, um, annual, uh, registrations, and they would like to post signs throughout the community, which we allow for a nonprofit organization to do two weeks
in advance of their deadline. So, the 31st of January is the closing of their registration. So, they want to post signs January 16th through the 31st of January. >> Move it. Move it. Second. >> Thank you. >> All in favor? I >> I >> Okay, a motion to adjourn. >> Move. >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> I What am I doing? We're just going right in the township. >> Township. Right into the township. >> So, we're heading to township. Anybody's stick with the township. That's okay. Also, >> okay. Adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the
open public meetings act pursuance to the public laws of 1975. Said notice was advertising as park press in the beacon and was posted on a bullet board showing the time and place for the meeting. Um, item one, ordinance 202601, setting salaries of seasonal employees. >> Ordinance of the township of Lacy County
of Ocean State of New Jersey, amending an ordinance entitled, an ordinance of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey affixing and determining the salaries, wages, and compensation of the officers, employees, and members of the governing body of the township. This is for our part-time recreation and DPW employees.
>> Move it. >> Second. [clears throat] >> Mr. Juliano, >> yes. >> Mr. Laray, >> yes. >> Mr. McDonald, >> yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kenneth, >> yes. Resolution 202651 authorizing the transfer of appropriations. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the transfer of
appropriations in accordance with provisions of NJSA4A 4-59. >> Second. >> Uh, Mrs. Juliano, >> yes. >> Mr. McDonald, >> yes. >> Mr. Ger, >> yes. >> Mr. Laray, >> yes. >> Mayor Kennes, >> yes. Resolution 202652, adopting a cash
management plan for the year 2026. Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean, state of New Jersey, adopting a cash management plan for the year 2026. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mrs. Juliano, >> yes. >> Mr. McDonald, >> yes. >> Mr. Kola, [clears throat] >> yes. >> Mr. Lee, >> yes.
>> Mayor Katz, >> yes. >> Resolution 202653, accepting the retirements of multiple employees. >> Resolution of the Township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey accepting the retirements of various municipal employees. >> Move it. >> Second, >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. [clears throat]
Yes. >> Um, Mr. Keratto. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. Mayor Cass. >> Yes. Resolution 202654 authorizing the tax assessor to file assessor's appeals. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the tax assessor to file
assessors to file an assessor's appeal to correct certain errors made on assessments for the year 2026 and authorizing the tax assessor as agent in filing petition of appeals and roll back complaint forms. >> Move it. >> Second. [clears throat] Mr. McDonald, >> excuse me. Yes.
>> Mr. Laray, >> yes. >> Mr. Cerutoo, >> yes. >> Mrs. Juliano, >> yes. >> Mayor K. >> Yes. Resolution 202655 authorizing an addendum to a shared services agreement with Pine Beach Municipal Court. >> Resolution of the Township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing an addendum to the shared
services agreement with the Bureau of Pine Beach for municipal court services. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mr. Cutoo. >> Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. Laay. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kennes. >> Yes. Resolution 202656 authorizing the execution of a grant agreement.
>> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the execution of a grant agreement with the county of ocean for the municipal alliance program. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kolo. >> Yes. >> Mr. Laray. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kennis.
>> Yes. Resolution 202657 awarding a contract to Motorola Solutions for consoles for the police department. Resolution of the township of Lacy, county of Ocean, state of New Jersey, awarding a contract to Motorola Solutions in care of wireless communications and electronics for K2 core consoles and Vesta for the police
department. >> Second, >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes, >> Mr. Kero. >> Yes, >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes, >> Mr. Lang. >> Yes. And this is the money we got from the insurance company? >> Yes. This is all being covered under due to the lightning strike by the insurance. >> Yes. Does anybody in the public sees
that nice big number on that page? insurance company's paying for that. >> Mayor Kenneth. >> Yes. Resolution 202658 awarding a contract for the purchase of rock salt. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey awarding a contract for the purchase of rock salt to Atlanta.
>> Move it. Second. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. Cutoo. >> Yes. >> Mr. Lay. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kennes. >> Yes. Resolution 202659 authorizing the release of performance guarantee for Seabbze at Lacy for the model park and construction trailer relocation. Move it. Oh, sorry.
>> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean [snorts] State of New Jersey authorizing the release of a performance guarantee for Seabbze at Lacy model park and construction trailer relocation conditioned upon the posting of a maintenance guarantee. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kerato.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Lay. >> Yes. >> Mayor KZ. >> Yes. Resolution 202660 authorizing the release of performance guarantee for Sebies at Lacy the multif family area. Resolution in the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the release of a performance guarantee for Seabbze at Lacy multif
family area conditioned upon the posting of a maintenance guarantee. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> M Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mr. Curutoo. >> Yes. >> Mr. Laray. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kennis. >> Yes. Resolution 20261 authorizing the release of a maintenance guarantee for Seabbze at Lacy the offsite area.
Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the release of a maintenance bond for Seabbze at Lacy off-site area. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. Laray. >> Yes. >> Mr. Curutoo. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kenn. >> Yes. Resolution 20262 authorizing the
refund of deposit monies. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State, New Jersey, authorizing the refund of deposits held for the use of municipal facilities. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. >> Mr. Laray. >> Yes. >> Mr. Certolo. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano, >> yes. >> Mayor Kemp, >> yes. Resolution 202663 authorizing the
payment of township bills. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean, state of New Jersey, authorizing the payment of township bills. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Uh, Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. And I'm staying on T0035. >> Mr. Cerutoo? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano? >> Yes.
>> Mr. Laray? >> Yes. >> Mayor, >> yes. Monthly reports. >> Sorry about that. I don't have any monthly reports. Aim, do you have? >> I do. >> Municipal clerk's office for the month of December collected receipts in the
amount of $3,48249. Municipal court for the month of November collected receipts in the amount of $11,323.93. Uh, road opening permits for the month of December, we're collecting the amount of $5,820. recycling commodity in the amount of $1,186
and truck parking in the amount of $325. Motion to accept the reports as read. >> Move it. >> Second. >> All in favor. >> Motion to approve township meeting minutes of December 23rd, 2025. >> Move it. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Motion to approve executive session
meeting minutes of December 23rd, 2025. >> Move it. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Motion to approve township meeting minutes of January 1st, 2026. >> Move it. >> Second. You got a big ball favor? >> I >> Okay, I have a couple things. >> Uh >> oh.
>> Yeah, I'm going first. So, [laughter] this is our the uh the our first real township meeting. Um >> stuff on the >> I know. So, yeah. So, that's why I'm going. So, we did change um I guess the form slight changes in the format. Um
so, we're you know still asking people to abide by the the five limit time limit. We're not going to rush anybody out of here, but we just ask you please to to hold it to the five minutes. Um, we are going to try and make better use of the caucuses this year. Um, as you saw tonight, we're going to try to put
more of that stuff on the front loaded so that people understand, you know, what we're thinking and how we're how we're voting on stuff. And, um, the committee is going to go last on our public comment. So, that the public's going first and the committee is going last. we discussed this and we feel it's
appropriate for us just in case we want to address some things that get brought up during the course of the meeting. So, just to touch base on a few things that that uh you know, so we were where we left off last year. Um we're still involved uh who we're still
involved in the tax appeal um lawsuit with um we I think I mostly assured that we resolved our uh COA lawsuit with fair share housing. Um some projects that are continuing
through the end of the year. We're still working with the YMCA to see if we can come to some sort of uh partnership with them. Um we'll see what if we're able to do something. Phase two of the township dock started I believe in November and that's continuing. The Hebrew Park
pavilion is complete. So that that uh project is is finished. The D is supposed to they had a they're doing a real act that was the resiliency. It's it's a big deal if you talk to engineers and um planners
extremely costly. So I would it's supposed to pass I think they extended it for 12 days or something like that but we getting a lot of emails and calls regarding it what the effect on on townships are. So um if you were building I would strongly um caution you to check with an engineer to see what
you're getting into. It's significant. Um, the former White Castle is going to be converted to a Tim Hortons and that's under construction. There's a new church going in on Lacy Road. There's no real landmarks. It's the old building that they sort of started taking apart. That's but that's going to
be a church. Had a meeting yesterday with um Mnt Development. That's the behind CVS. They looks like they're trying to get started. So, that project might finally get underway. the school board swore in new members on um Monday night. I was uh I wasn't at
the swearing in, but I did take time to go and uh you know, introduce myself to the new members and just remind them that you know that um you know that we're there to help them as much as we can, offer as much of support we can and that um you know that we do have regular liaison meetings. I'm not the liazison
this year but you know um that if they need any kind of help from any one of us they should reach out to us and I'll be conducting meet the mayors as at the second Tuesday of every month uh at six six o'clock at the library. So
with that those are my comments tonight. I'm opening it up to the public. Does the public have any questions or comments? Come on up. [clears throat] All right, I guess I'll just have to hold it. Uh, Regina Desenda, Sunset Drive, Sunrise Beach. Something you just talked about, Steve. Um,
>> that whole tech um tax case, I thought that was close to being resolved. Any idea? >> I'm just giving um uh I'm just saying. >> So, it's still in progress, but it's close because that's what I was >> seemingly. >> All right. So, do you think it'll be during 2026? >> I would imagine so. >> So, it could be this year. me again.
That's my my best guess. >> Okay, good. Cuz I was kind of hoping that would come to a close soon. Um I also want to talk about uh the rock salt issues at Home Depot. I don't know if you've spoken to Mr. Nuller yet, >> but um you could have cashed in on a
bunch of money if you had some fines in place because there's been more rock salt put up there. And that is wellhead protection area for three, four, and five. Um, I'd really like to see our drinking water stay clean since that's the basis for the value of our homes. Um, and I've
been in a town where the water was tainted and it's not a nice thing. So, when the MUA gives you that ordinance to have fines for these people that are just throwing rock salt down anytime they please on our wellhead area, really appreciate if you'd think about it
really hard and let's start finding them because you got to hit them in the pocket and we need the money anyway. So, why not? >> So, there was emails back and forth. Veronica, I don't it's not on the books. Is that right? I >> That's That's correct. There's no ordinance on the books. Correct. nothing
to charge them for their violation. >> It's a gentleman's agreement between the Home Depot, >> which ain't working out for and they are allowed to use a a environmentally safe rock product. It's it's called purple or something chloride, too, but I saw them putting down rock salt more than once.
>> You cannot pass that retroactively. Not retroactive. >> Oh, that would be lovely if you could. We'd have a pile of money. >> But please, >> so what are you asking? So, we'll caucus the >> putting it all on caucuses. >> Please pass that ordinance to start
binding people that are putting rock salt down in the wellhead protection area. >> And the MUA also mentioned that they want to start moving their meetings to 5:30 in March. You know, it's just dinner hour and people don't get home from work that quickly, but I'm the only one there anyway, so what difference
does it make, right? Um, another thing I want to talk about is the Caregiver Volunteers of Central Jersey. As I mentioned at the Rior, we have a lot of elderly in this community and we have two senior communities. Caregiver Volunteers of Central Jersey
can help people with things like grocery shopping, doctor visits, companionship, and also they need volunteers right here in this neighborhood. So call 7325052273 or check out Caregiver Volunteers of Central Jersey on their website. They
need volunteers and people need them. There are people that you could serve right in your own neighborhood or even down the street. And um these people helped me tremendously in 2018 with my parents. And that's how I know about this uh program. And it's free and
there's no financial qualification. It's open to anyone. That's the beauty of it. Um there's no income verification. And then in coordination with that, our police department has a lockbox program for seniors that may be home alone. And
um to assist emergency responders, you can have a lock box installed at your home so that um you can get help easily without having your door broken down. So if anybody needs a lock box, call the police department, find about find out
about the program. 6096936636. That's the police number, right? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> Because I know someone recently that needed to do that. >> Thank you for your comments. Anything else? >> Come on up.
Barry Bender, southern end of AC Township. Um, wasn't planning on speaking, but I noticed something down at the bottom of the agenda. Um, I really, uh, don't enjoy that at all. uh putting the
comments from the committee after the comments from the public in the sense that during the p comments from the public the people on the deis are allowed to speak as opposed to the comments from the committee where the people in the audience are silenced. Um
my feeling is it's a uh basically adds to a lack of transparency and a lack lack of democracy on your part uh that you make your comments and the people out in the audience have no wherewithal whatsoever to reply to your comments. So I'm just letting you know that's my
feeling on this subject. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Anything else? >> Name >> Alisa Waller I just wanted to ask a question. So, I was researching on the website. There's a public notice. There's no date. So, it just says it's I
mean Veronica's name's on it and Mr. Dyikoff, but it's mentioning something about a home improvement program. Is that still happening in our >> the community development block grant program? Block grant. >> So, um it says here that the loan it's affordable housing administrators and
it's a forgivable loan after 10 years. >> Yes. >> So, >> that's a very old notice. So, that the scale might have changed. So there's probably >> date on it. So I didn't know how old it was. But >> yeah, that if Mr. Dyikoff's name's on it, that's a very old notice because that would have been when he was the last time he was mayor. >> Three, four years ago. Three, four years ago.
>> Is it still in? >> Yes. And we do put out a notice when we do need um uh more residents. We have a very long waiting list right now. Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh, which brings me back to the $150, but anyways, >> [laughter] >> um, the affordable housing, the
forgivable loan. So, after 10 years, if they're in, they get the loan and they get their house, they're in it for 10 years, and they still owe some money, so it's all forgiven. Or is there a hold on a certain amount at the end of the forgiven loan? Because I know the USDA had uh former home loans uh uh back in
the 70s and 80s, and after so many years, they forgive the loan. except that there's still 35 to $40,000 that is uh just like put over here if you can still stay in your home, but if you
leave your home or sell your home, you owe them back the 40,000. >> So, I'm just wondering if that's how this works for these people. So this so you have to have lived in your house for a minimum of three years and then you need certain um home improvement efficiencies done doors, windows, a
roof, hot water heater, those kind of things, right? And you have to meet the income level guidelines um based on your house >> it says >> and that could be old. Yeah. But um to meet the income level guidelines, we will only spend up to $25,000 on making those improvements. So if you need
doors, windows, you know, and then yes, you have to stay, you have to be maintain the ownership of that home for 10 years. At the end of the 10 years, we just sign off on the mortgage release. >> So if you sell in between that time, there's a sliding scale. So if you've been there for 5 years and then you
sell, you're going to owe at closing, they will owe 50% of that $25,000 back. And that is all charged through the affordable housing trust fund that developers pay for people who make who build new houses or make improvements on their house. you have to pay into this trust fund. There is also money that the
county provides under the county community development block grant and on even years the township gets an aotment from the county up to $40,000 to do these items as well. >> But again, it's only as much money as in the account. So if you try to come to do it and there's no money in the account, then you can't do it. >> Correct. >> That Yeah. Okay. So I was just curious
how it works because I know about the $85,000 that the uh USDA provided to people to have affordable houses here back in the 80s. >> Yeah. But it's not for the purchase of the house. It's for improvements to your house that um >> it's already existing. >> Yes. >> So, it's not land, it's not a building,
it's just exist. >> Yeah. [clears throat] So, if you again, we see a lot of our seniors um that need hot water heaters are a big thing that need improvements like that done to the house. It's not for, you know, accessory items and those kind of things and new carpeting in your house. It's for those things that make the house efficient and
and safe. Well, that's interesting because I I just thought of something because at the end of that loan, uh if you have any improvements that you've done in your house over the the amount of time you're in it, they they count that against it. So, like they count it
for you actually, >> right? >> So, if you improve your home and you still have a loan and it's forgiven and that $40,000 is over here, that doesn't even count towards the improvements that you made on your home. So, I'm just wondering if there's a difference like
if you already have a home and you're improving it and you have this >> she's talking about when you go to sell it >> and you go to sell it. >> Okay. So, right now if you're single up to $250,000 gain taxree
you're married half a million dollar taxree on a gain. So, if you're talking about $25,000 maxing out, you're not going to >> Okay. >> You're not going to go past that. >> So, how does this benefit the town? >> I'm just curious. Does any of you have an answer?
>> So, which one are you? If you're talking just straight co the co affordable housing, >> the housing rehabilitation program. >> Yeah. So, if you want to I mean, if if you fall on the income limits and you apply and there's money in the account to put a new roof on, then you get a a free roof. Well, it keep Well, so so it
keeps the h it keeps it keeps people in the houses. It keeps the houses safe. It keeps the value of the houses up and they don't fall into disrepair. Okay. >> You know, and it's a program through again federal programs, federal money that's coming in to keep these houses in
livable conditions. Yes. And it does, you know, you make those improvements in your house, no matter who paid for them. It does increase the resale value hopefully, you know. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Yeah. It's more It's more set up to help the home owner, >> right, >> than the town problem, but it's just
>> Yeah. >> Okay. That was just something I ran into when I was cruising. The other uh thing I want to talk about is the the salt. Um I noticed this last snowstorm, the roads are like still white all over Ocean County basically with the salt. So, the runoff [snorts] from the salt is
damaging our waters as we just heard. But I'm just curious, is there any other thing that the township used to use sand uh to help with uh melting snow or coffee grounds is another one that I've heard and also sawdust. I don't know if we can use that in some parts,
especially parts that are closer to wells or waterways. It's just something I want to throw out there because the roads and our cars are being destroyed by the salt. Um and I'm just throwing that out there as an option. And lastly,
I want to mention the uh ice. Is anybody on this committee concerned at all about ICE coming into our town or maybe our county and starting to take people out because what just happened in Minneapolis with a woman being shot in the face [snorts] by ICE who was an
American citizen who was a legal observer. She was shot and killed. And the school that was three miles away went under their official lockdown. But there were still students and staff outside who were being shot at by pepper
bullets and thrown to the ground. So I was so scared to go to work today because I'm an educator thinking about this happening closer to us. And I know it's been happening Delaney Hall up in uh New Jersey New York has been dealing with the immigrants and the ICE ICE
agents bringing in their people that they're taking there. So, I'm just curious if you guys have thought about it and I just wanted to put it in your minds that that's what I'm thinking about in our town and in Tom's River because that's where I work and I think it's a scary situation across America >> and uh just wanted to mention that.
>> Thank you very much. >> Any other comments? >> See, [clears throat] this is Mills. Memphis terrible story. Um I first I wanted to acknowledge everybody that shows up at these meetings especially here and they volunteer their time and I
know we listen to everybody up here say how much you guys volunteer your time. I think the residents that show up at these meetings need a absolute kudos for showing up and participating in these meetings in person. So I just wanted to say that um because of that this is now
my second year participating. I've tried to educate myself in researching the nomenclature of this political body, attending [snorts] municipal training modules, events, and respectfully making suggestions that are within the scope of what I think that I understand are your
responsibilities to the community. As an interested res resident, I've participated in in-depth courses on coastal stewardship, safe streets, urban and transportation planning. I'm part of the arts council. I'm part of the environmental commission. I attend Lacy
County historic roundts and I talk about Lacy and the history of Lacy to everybody that I possibly can because I love this town. Um, I say that and I also work full-time. So, the volunteer hours that I put in to try and communicate in positive ways about how
he can help this town is really important to me. So, I want to take another run at the safe streets topic if I may. Go ahead. >> So, I mentioned something about the master plan and walkable downtown, which got crickets, but I want to really say
that I believe our goals are similar. And I'm thrilled that the master plan mentions a walkable downtown because it says to me that you all understand the value of walkability in our community. And it's proven that walkable corridors positively affect the community's mental health and physical health while
increasing the quality of life for all residents and visitors. as we see an increase in bicycling. Not that ebikes are our favorite thing that we see these days, but I've seen a huge, especially where I live, people walking down Bayway, people riding
bicycles down Bayway. And this morning at a large crane that was bigger than a house and four trucks go down and almost mow me off the road at 6:30 in the morning, which is why I'm now wearing fluorescent even when I'm walking a half a block. And a lantern. I feel like I'm now
>> I have a blinking light myself personally. >> Yeah. No, I mean it's serious. And they're not going 25 miles an hour, which is the speed limit. And the the worst time in the morning, and I think it's when we're all commuting and we're walking. So, it's it's really important that we understand. [clears throat]
So, here we go. Staying current with urban planning tools that transform outdated car centric urban sprawl of the 70s into walkable pedestrian areas are essential for success. Implementing practical traffic calming solutions and I want to
say traffic calming is a category that's recognized by the federal government including the state to achieve walkable neighborhoods is urgently needed in Lacy. The Federal Highway Administration defines that the primary purpose of traffic calming is to
support the livability and vitality of residential and commercial areas through improvements in non-motorious safety, mobility, and comfort. These objectives are typically achieved by reducing vehicle speeds or volumes on streets and networks. Traffic calming measures
consist of horizontal, vertical, lane narrowing, roadside, and other features that use self- enforcing means to produce the desired effects. So, what we're looking for is people that are driving on a street that'll say, "Oh, shoot. I should I should slow down. This
is this is a walkable area. There's people walking their dogs. There's kids. There's bicycles. It's self policing versus saying let's get the police out there and enforce and give tickets and so on and so forth which then just it that's a way to do it too but it's not
the right way in my opinion. So we're going to do definitions. Vertical deflections include speed humps, raised tables and cushions. Horizontal shifts include chicanees, diverters and mini roundabouts which I'm not looking forward to. Lane narrowing
includes adding bike lanes, curb extensions, chokers, ballards, meaning flexible ballards, not metal ballards that we have in the middle of Lacy Road because these are really dangerous. And I don't care how convenient they are or the fact that people mow over plastic ballards,
you know, I know, but I'm just saying >> I can I can talk about this for a while, but >> I know, but we're not going to. But I my request is let's get back on the on the county and say let's put in some flexible ballots on Lacy Road because if somebody hits them They're going to get >> they do.
>> So vis visual cues include road diets which means that you make roads smaller, narrower, not wider, raise cross crosswalks, enhance paint markings, which is the least expensive way to change people's minds about safety. These are all gateway treatments.
>> Sorry, go ahead. So, a study by the American Journal of Public Health found that children who live within a block of a speed hump have significantly reduced odds of being hit by a vehicle and create safer, more livable streets. And then I was going to talk about the email we got today so I
don't have to do that. And I'm going to end with you mentioned safe routes to schools. That program goes handinhand with complete and green streets. Please consider passing complete and green streets resolution showing our commitment to safer streets in Lacy. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for your comments. >> Anything else? Uh >> no, I mean I No, [laughter] >> I'll talk about an environmental commission. >> Any other comments? >> Seeing none make a motion to close the
floor. >> Second time you guys. >> All in favor? I >> um >> what else have their comments? >> Oh, I forgot. Yeah. [laughter] resolution. >> Closing the floor.
>> Close the floor. Yeah, closing the floor. >> Right. Deputy mayor. >> Deputy Mayor uh Laray, >> he's got he's got to get back in the routine again. He hasn't, you know, >> he hasn't done this for a while. So, he's got back in the routine again. >> Oh, yeah. And that he caught me off
guard last from last speaking to first speaking. And of course, Steve with his initial comments covered just about everything I was going to say. But first of all, I want to uh thank you four gentlemen for coming up [clears throat] tonight
because even though you know we got our views as of right now, you brought up a lot of good important points and I know myself, you know, I thank you. I'm going to look into this more myself and follow up on it, but that's from me to you. I I
really uh appreciate what you had to say and of course this young lady too. Um Steve did bring up uh which a lot of us just read a just today about this real act that's coming through uh out of Trenton uh affecting builders, different
areas of towns, flood zones and the whole bit. Uh it's another thing that uh anybody involved in this permitting the whole nine yards pay attention to it because it could have some really steep impacts on what goes on in the future
with uh building construction and flood zones. Uh there was a comment in there today in that when I was reading it while I was bored sitting in the EDR at brick hospital. Cathy's could end up in a flood zone. So
that gives you an idea how deep this might reach into town. Pretty much anything east of uh Route 9. So if you want to educate yourself, that's just another good thing to educate yourself. Tim Hortons was mentioned uh
that is actively being worked on. Uh what's is nice to see is they are using an existing building and converting it over without tearing it down and going with total new construction. So that's a great thing when we see a fast food franchise establishment being
rehabbed into the next one. Also, yes, there was momentum time this year, Monday night, the school uh has more turnover than it's ever had. It on a
the normal election cycle that the seven members is two, two, and three. Well, this year became unique because there was also a resignation which that seat has not been sat in yet, but there's a four member turnover at a
seven. That's moment momentous. So, let's everybody try to stay a little positive, see what they can do, what new ideas. Uh I welcome all the new board members and I myself have also uh spent time speaking to all of them that had uh
been elected and I am one of the lison to the school. the mention of volunteers was brought up and as I always say, you know, volunteers are what what makes towns, not only the people that work there,
which but volunteers are something you can never have enough of and they're getting harder and harder to get. So, you see a volunteer, thank them. If you see something you can get involved in, get involved. Regina brought up the
caregivers, another great organization. There's so many fantastic organizations out there that we can either be part of, donate to, or at least appreciate why they're there. And yes, I'm sure all of us pay attention to the news when it comes to
ICE and things going on around this country. So, all I can say is yes, it's always in my thoughts because some things are scary, but Yes. And with that, I just want to wish everybody again a great 2026 and
let's hope this is a good year because we've accomplished a lot last year. We got a lot on the on the agenda and I'm looking forward to another great year. Thank you. >> Thank you, Bob. Committee woman Juliano. >> Thank you, Mayor Kenneth. Nice to see that again.
>> Oh, I forgot something. >> You can't talk. >> No, no, no. [laughter] >> Five minutes are up. Let's congratulate Gaga on her new granddaughter. >> Yay. [applause] >> Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.
Thanks, Bob. Appreciate it. Yes. I became a grandmother on January 2nd, my first grandchild. Very excited. Makes you pay attention a lot more to uh things that you're talking about. It does make you pay attention a lot more. Um, on volunteer side, I always bring
this up and I'm sure people get annoyed with it all the time, but it's something we need to pay attention to because somewhere down the line, the state, I'm sure, will force our hand at some point or another and take um our volunteer firemen away from us. And we are very,
very fortunate to have what we have in this town. I know I say it all the time, but it's very important to notice them, to pay attention to them, to support them, and to thank them. This past month, we had 101 calls. You know, they
range. The calls fire could be a fire alarm, could be a gas leak, could be anything, but these guys leave their homes, leave their families, holidays, whatever it is, they're there taking care of stuff. So, we need to make sure we really pay attention to them. Um,
gentlemen, thank you for being here tonight. We want you to know we these are things that we talk about. Believe me, we know that New Jerseyy's known as the um pay the debt before you get a prize kind of thing. And it's always been that way. My
brother who lived in Arizona for years, when he'd come back and do something here for me, he'd say, "Okay, got to get a permit." I know, Peggy. You know, because it's a permit state. It's just what it is. I'm sorry, but we're working on it. We're thinking about it. We're talking about it. It's not like we uh,
you know, don't know how it feels because we've all been there with permits in one way or another. Um, congratulations to the new year for everybody. I wish all well and uh, success and hopefully we get some more stuff done this year.
>> Thank you, Peggy. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> Committeeman Curloff. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um just want to dovetail on some of the things that uh well first congratulations to and Juliano is the birth of a >> I'm partial to girls. I only have a
daughter. So congratulations. >> Um that's wonderful. Um some of the things that uh committeeman Laray said or some of the things I talk about up here and I I like to say that we control what we can control. So, one of the things he said that happened really, I say, in the dark of night at the end of
this current administration in Trenton are these new zoning rules. Uh, so you purchase a home and all of a sudden you may have to raise it. Um, I don't think that's fair to change the rules after the game. And it it goes along with the flavor of the evening. What these gentlemen and this lady were talking
about tonight. Philosophically, you're right. I agree with you and I and I will revisit it and I'm sure there'll be some spirited conversation in the back room. But just to give you an idea of what could be happening when I say we control one of the most important things we do
here and I've been texting back and forth this week with um newly minted and reminted Mayor Kenneth who's obviously my running mate and a personal friend. So we often have some of these conversations and one of the things that came out of uh New York City uh with
Mayor [snorts] Mandami that was unbelievable was COPA community opportunity to purchase act law recently enacted by the city council in New York City giving nonprofits and community groups the first chance to buy multifamily
buildings when they go on sale. So essentially they have to have the right of first refusal and that's always the toenail in the doorway, isn't it? Right. So the next thing on that list will be single family homes. Our governor elect and I'm hoping she's good to Ocean
County um openly supported Mayor Mandami and Mandami has waited, excuse me, Mayor Mandami has wasted no time in talking about items like this. So, it's very troubling uh when people come for a private uh personal land grab uh through
executive fiat or caveat or uh through so-called legislation. Don't they they count on you being a plumber. They count on you being busy like Carol, Mrs. Middleorf said. Watch the watch the press releases at 5:00 on
a Friday night on a holiday weekend come out at 2 or 3 or 4 in the afternoon from Trenton. Be aware of what's coming out on weekends. This is how some of these people unfortunately operate. And I say we protect our house and our zip codes.
Nothing's more important. Land use is how um and I don't have favorites, but land use, excuse me, Mayor Kenneth is right. Um [clears throat] that's the heartbeat of a town. whatever you support, it's derived through taxes, um, land use. So, um, I want that to be
front and center with everyone's eyes open. And the people here that are vigilant, they come up and disagree with us, maybe dislike us, maybe agree with us, talk into that microphone and give your heart to our people who are going to see this played on a loop on channel 21 because you're educating everybody.
So, your property is yours within the realm of ethical reason. and I want to see you be able to do what you want with it without making it look like a patchwork quilt of garbage. Uh there are rules. So we move forward that that way. Um I'll close comments with uh yesterday
I was at the reorganization meeting for the county of ocean. uh we elected two new county commissioners and one of the things that came out of that meeting that was novel uh that I have right here if you will
humor me uh the committee director uh spoke about uh an Ocean County improvement authority and it's just in the discussion stages now uh but when you know it's it's been it's been around for a little while but I do think it's
going to catch and and get on Now, uh, Mammoth County actually has one and, uh, creating such an authority would help smaller municipalities, boards of education, fire districts secure better borrowing weight rates. I'm all for that. We work hard on our credit rating
because when we borrow money cheaper in this township, I have to go less into your pocket because it's cost us less to go out to borrow that money and bond for it. So, if the county can I'll take help from anybody. If the county can help us do that, I think doing that would be a great thing. We are one of our
municipalities and we are in good standing. Our county uh are partners of ours. Uh so we want to look forward to that. Um no announcement now, just a teaser. The beautiful I'll close with this. The beautiful Enos's Pond Park. Um there
could be an announcement with that coming uh very shortly. That concussion proof flooring. It's now shaded. was fortunate enough with people at the end of the day here. Um, committee woman Juliano, administrator Lay, um, not sure if our clerk Amy was there or not, but
we >> she wasn't. It was just >> we clipped the ribbon over there and that's a county park, so no direct cost or impact to us, but I think you're going to see an announcement in February uh, with that. It's a it's a jewel. It's part of the recreational jewel and a crown uh that we have one of many
wonderful parks and one of the primary reasons people live here and shares here. So uh stay tuned for that. Can't make any announcements but will shortly. >> Mayor, thank you for that. >> Thank you. Peter McDonald, >> is there anything left to say?
>> No, seriously. Um thank you mayor. uh a few years back I created and we ran it for two years and we stopped it because the attendance was getting low was a volunteer fair. In other words, we bring the organizations in and if you wanted
to sign up was a way to get in contact with all these great organizations that we have because you go talk to people what would you like to join this go yeah but I don't know how this is a way we can do that and I will talk Jim Mland ran it for our recreation
department and I will talk to him tomorrow about putting that back on on a thing. You can only run that so often. Um, I do want to talk about uh ICE. Uh, I don't like ICE. I don't like the way
they operate. However, they have a job to do and they are officials and they got to do the job. And I just wish and I get it. Wish these people who would
who are against them get out of the way. You can yell at them, scream at them. I was watching TV today. This guy's like 4 feet away and this this lady's just screaming at him and he's not doing anything. They have a job to do. Let them do their job and we won't have
those instances like we had yesterday where this woman gets shot. Let them do their job. It's just like a police officer. Police officer tells you to get out of the car. Guess what? Get out of the car. It's that simple. And this one's for Mr. Kenneth. Um, I
was watching TV today and they uh they were talking about housing in the United States and that it's all being jammed up by regulations and that they have to start looking at national toning these regulations down because the states
aren't doing it. So, they're thinking about making maybe national regulations come down and and wiping some of this stuff out. Um, and I do the the Minnesota problem. I think where it's headed here in New Jersey. I don't think there's any question about it. I mean,
they're they're going into California now. Uh I thought I thought I saw Illinois was was involved with this. They're in New York already with this. There's no doubt in my mind they will be in New Jersey soon with this fraud stuff going on. I don't know it'll be daycare
centers or what, but I mean this is the state of New Jersey. This is where corruption was born. So, >> thanks to that. >> That's a sanctuary state. [laughter] >> You laugh it, but it was this is where corruption was born. I'm telling you right now, I don't know when they're going to get here and you're going to be
shocked at the people involved in some of this stuff. Mayor, that's all I have. >> Thank you, Tim. Yep. So, my comments were at the beginning. Next meetings from here on out, they'll be at the end. So, motion to adjurnn. >> Move it. >> Can we read? >> Sorry, I have to read my >> resolution to go into executive hour. >> Resolution 2026-64,
resolution in town. Motion State New Jersey authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance with the open public meeting act to discuss pending anticipated litigation and matters of real estate. >> Move it. >> Second. >> Mrs. Juliana. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ker. >> Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. >> Yes. Mr.
>> Yes. Mayor C. >> Yes. Motion to adjourn. >> Move it. >> Second. >> All favor. I kill the tape.