this June 2nd Lake Placid Board of Adjustments meeting and to follow with a local planning agency collaboration with the regional utility. We're going to hear the board of adjustments meeting first. Um hopes to be able to turn those citizens loose since the collaborative
meeting after that is more of a discussion uh for recommendations to town council. So, let's begin by uh open up this board of adjustments meeting with uh a roll call, please.
Chairman Woods here. Board member Edgeman. Board member Clark here. Board member James Oxer here. Board member Freeman here.
Alternate board member Duncan here. Alternate board member Ramos. Thank you. With that said, I'll wait to entertain a motion concerning consent agenda one. A motion to accept it. We have a motion for Mr. Freeman. Do I
hear a second? It's a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, please call the role. Board member Freeman, yes. Board member Oxer, yes. Board member Woods, yes.
Board member Edgeman. Board member Clark. Yes. Board member Duncan. Yes. Let me open up public hearing LPBOA.25.002 by turning it over to town planner Dana Adell.
Thank you. As mentioned, Dana Redell, town planner for the record. This is a quasi judicial hearing. So if we can go ahead and go down the line to state whether or not we've had any exparte communication regarding this case. I'll start with Mr. Freeman.
No. No. Thank you. Mr. Clark. No. Mr. Woods? None. Mr. Duncan? No. And Mr. Oxer? No. Thank you. And at this time I would also have the applicant and agent who are in the audience please stand and raise your
right hand. We will take an oath. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. This hearing has been dually noticed in
a newspaper of general circulation and um property owners within 300 ft have also been notified. This is for hearing number LPOA 25002. The property is owned by Royal Oaks
Lunch Incorporated and the applicant, meaning the person making the request for this hearing, is Big Bang Fireworks LLC, owned by Justin Driggers, and the agent
is Goldstandard Builder Services, uh, under the care of Jason and Jessica Goldstein. Tonight they will also be represented by Richard Irvin who is their attorney. On the location map on the screen you can see the property is
located on the east side of US Highway 27 South and south of Tower Street and north of County Road 621. This is the Royals Plaza. This is where we have tractor supply do it best hardware.
On the screen you have the property control number and the address is 70 Plaza A, Lake Placid, Florida with a zoning of Highway commercial C1 and a consistent future land use of Commercial General, that's
CG. The total property is approximately 9.5 acres and it has access points on all three of the roads I had just mentioned, which are Tower Street, County Road 621, and US 27. The request is for a special exception
to allow a tent for the seasonal retail sale of sparklers and fireworks in the C1 Highway commercial district. So, in the C1 district, it's not that you need permission for firework sales
or temporary sales, but when you have a tent or a temporary structure for 3 months or less out of an 18month period, you're required to seek a special exception. Is that special exception granted
um by the year? The board of adjustment has the authority to place a time limit on the special exception. Um I'll get into it a little bit later, but initially I was supportive of a three-year request. This
year, I am going to reduce it to a one-year request as as my recommendation. Um because there's been certain activities on the property. There's interest in putting a different structure exactly where the tent is going to go as well as just to the south
of where they're proposing the sale which would be right where my cursor is. It's just south of Dunkin Donuts and just north of the vacant Smoke Shack property. Smoke Shack is developing right here. Um, and they're
gonna going to add an access point between the Royals Plaza and the Smoke Shack uh, property. So, because of the traffic circulation and the potential for a new business coming in right where
we're approving it, I'm reducing my recommendation to a one-year approval as opposed to a three-year. But on this map here on the zoning map on the lefth hand side, you could see that the property is fully surrounded by
properties with C1 zoning with the exception of the northeast corner which has some R2 zoning which is our duplex our two family dwelling zoning and it also has a medium density residential
future land use in that same corner. In the staff report, I indicated that it pretty much is separated by this entire parking lot, as well as when you're here, you can't really view those homes or see those homes because you have the
structure of the parking, I'm sorry, of the retail plaza in in your field of sight. This is the plan that was provided to us. And it's really hard to read if you're not
in front of a computer. So, if you do, if you did have it on a computer, you have one in front of you. If you can blow it up, it's much easier. But, um, right here in this black square is where they're proposing the tent. If you look over here, this little red square is the
portaotti and the black square is where they were rectangle, excuse me, is where they were proposing a metal storage container. Um, we discussed that a little bit and they are actually going
to propose a box truck to be used temporarily. Now, this is where I kind of dance on the line a little bit as to whether or not um a box truck or storage container
should be used. So, this is a temporary structure. It's not a permanent structure. The code has commercial architectural standards for our buildings, which is why I said I don't think it would be a good idea to have a storage container there because it's
going to be metal 100% of the way. It's not going to meet the requirement to be limited to less than 10% metal. Neither is a box truck, but in terms of the aesthetics and the temporary nature of
it, if the customer is willing to use a box truck, which they did agree to, to temporarily store any overflow inventory, um I think, you know, that's a decision I'll leave to the board of adjustment
and not something that particularly gives me heartburn as the town planner. They're showing setbacks. Uh I did have a citizen contact me today with concern regarding the proximity of the propane
tank. And I did a little research into Florida statutes which which states as long as these firework sales occur at least 50 feet away from the propane tank, then they're in compliance with that Florida statute. So again, I don't
have concerns there. So, as with any special exception, this gets sent out to all the departments and agencies who might have comments. I'm the town is currently working with the technical advisor in
lie of an engineer. We do not have an engineer on staff at this time. So, we're working with someone from Stonehenge Land Development Consultants, my consulting firm, who reviewed this and had some questions, concerns. Some of
them I'm recording myself. Sorry, I've never done that before. Um, technology is great. So the the comments from the technical adviser mo most of them have been
addressed but we'll go through them. So they said as this is directly adjacent to the US 27 entrance into Royals Plaza there should be no parking in the tent area this would mean the entire small parking lot where the tent is located should be barricaded. So, we had a
discussion and what they meant by that was because the tent is being proposed in the middle of existing parking spaces, it's important that we don't create a stacking issue onto 27. So, you
couldn't necessarily have a tent here and for traffic to maybe come and just kind of stop in the travel way and park their vehicles here. So, they're requesting this this area where my mouse is to be barricaded. This
travel lane should still be open so that people can get into the parking lot and people will then really be encouraged and pushed to use actual parking spaces. I think it would also be okay if maybe the tent is
shifted in such a way where these parking spaces are able to be utilized. It will really depend on the setup of the tent when they get out there. But the the main purpose of that comment is to make sure that people can pull in and
no one's parking in travel aisles because there's no designated parking spaces in that area. Many of these firework sale lots have shipping containers to store excess inventory. If one will be used, show on the sketch. So, they did provide that on
the sketch and they've asked to use a box truck instead. Will Big Bang have private security on site during all hours of closure? They've indicated that they will and we've included that as a condition of their approval. There should be a sketch of the tent internal layout showing
organization of display tables, location of exits, location of fire extinguishers, emergency lighting, compliance with life safety code. So, the technical adviser isn't wrong on this. This is something that is required during the permitting process. It is approved by the buil building official
and fire inspector. So I do not believe I included that in the packet. I may have they did provide it to me at one point, but I do not feel as though that is in our purview. We do not regulate the insides of buildings. We regulate
the outsides of buildings, the site design and how circulation occurs on the site. um aesthetics to make sure it doesn't decrease property values and things of that nature. So, it's good of our technical advisor to be concerned about the public safety. Um we will
leave that to the fire and building professionals. They recommended that we get with attorney Harris to see if there's any kind of indemnification of the town and town personnel should be required in case of a worst case situation. Does the fact that the town staff and BOA might approve this place
any liability on the town? I think this was a good question. Uh we forwarded this comment over to the town attorney who agreed that there should be certain insurance in place and we've had correspondence back and forth over what
that insurance will look like. And in order to actually indemnify the town, it requires a contract. So, in my recommended motion tonight, uh we'll discuss the need for a contract, which if the board of adjustment requires a
contract, it would come before the town council at the next town council meeting on June 9th. And again, that's in your discretion. Um the technical advisor stated that he felt like it should be a case-bycase
approval, not six events over three-year period because things can change and the tent location will be blocking the required interconnectivity that smoke shack will be constructing which is something we just discussed. So we have reduced our recommendation to one year.
And should adjacent property owners within however many feet be contacted? The answer is yes. They were contacted pursuant to our code requirements, which is a 300 foot requirement. Highlands County GIS had no
objection. Lake Placid Police Department did not respond. Highlands County Engineering had no comment as well as the NPDES coordinator and fire rescue. Fire rescue also commented about the location of the tent and the
interconnectivity for smoke shack. Highlands County Natural Resources had no comment. Florida Department of Health had no objection. So, I have my staff recommendation on the slide and I'll go
over it quickly and then I'll put the motion options up on the screen. So the first recommendation is that the use of the tent shall not become a nuisance to nearby businesses or the general public. This goes to discuss, you know, like the parking we talked
about to make sure that it's safe, that there's no stacking. Further, the location of the tent may be shifted to accommodate construction in connection to the adjacent property to the south so long as all other conditions and setback requirements for the C1 district are met. So if you think back on the site
plan, we required a 20 foot setback. That is the front yard setback for the C1 district. So, as long as you know this and I put this condition in here before we decided to limit
the recommended time frame to one year so that when smoke shack does develop their property, it's important to make sure that it doesn't decrease the potential for circulation. So, that's kind of what we mean by nuisance. And obviously, you know, like fireworks can't be getting
set off in the middle of the day or anything of like that nature. The tent and any related signage shall be maintained in safe and sanitary condition. Barricade shall be used to prevent stacking, ensure traffic circulation of the site remains intact,
and parking occurs in delineated parking spaces. I didn't put a preference for a type of barricade. I didn't want to necessarily put a very stringent um and potentially cost prohibitive requirement on the type of barricade. So
in my book that can mean like the orange barricades, it can mean a traffic, you know, traffic cones with safety tape around it. It can mean fenced areas that are stood up. Um, as if it's to the board of
adjustments liking and approval, then I recommend a box truck to be used for the storage of overflow inventory and that storage container should be prohibited just consistent with other properties in town. The applicant shall employ a
dedicated nightw watch/security to remain on site during all closure hours. The security shall conduct hourly checks of the site and report any findings to management or local law enforcement as needed. Banners, feather/blade signs, snipe
signs shall be prohibited. All signs shall adhere to section 154-15 of the town code. The length and height of the tent along the road frontage will be used to calculate the area of the wall, which is something we've done traditionally in tent sales. That the
um mechanism used to adhere the sign to the tent has to be like a bracket, something strong and sturdy. It can't be like a rope or zip ties, something that flaps in the wind. That would be considered a banner, which is
prohibited by town code. The applicant shall provide a certificate of insurance that names the town as the additional insured, which is what came from our town attorney, and engage in a contract with the town that indemnifies the town as approved and coordinated by the town attorney. So, if
we can't come to an agreement within the next week regarding the contract, then it cannot happen. And at this time, I don't believe we've heard a response from the town attorney as to whether the contract that's been provided by Mr. Irvin will be considered
sufficient. Any and all temporary lighting shall be shield shielded into the subject property so as to not glare onto the adjacent properties, including road rightway. The hours of operation shall be limited to 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 8:00
a.m. to midnight on Friday and Saturday. This is consistent with hours of operation for other tent sales we've approved in town. The tent shall not be erected for more than 31 days consecutively and no more than 62 days per calendar
year. And the special exception shall expire exactly one year from today, which would allow them to do a tent sale coming up very shortly for Fourth of July and again for Christmas. And
then depending on the construction in that area, we might see them again next year if they choose to pursue this site again. So we can run with those conditions. You guys are more than welcome to mention any other conditions
that should be added or removed. And then there's motion options for approval, denial, or approval with conditions as mentioned by staff. Thank you, Miss Rodell. Any questions or comments from the board? Hearing none. This is a public hearing.
I need to open to the public for questions or comments related to this issue. Good afternoon. My name is Rich Irvin. I represent Big Bang Fireworks. Uh just to give you a little bit of perspective about Big Bang and uh their
operation. Big Bang's been in business for over 20 years. They started out in Sebring and Leak Placid. They're one of Florida's top consumer firework retailers. Um they have an emphasis and they prioritize
uh for safety. They have weekly seminars at Leburg Superstore. Uh they've operated uh throughout Florida, all towns throughout Florida. Uh they maintain a professional, clean operation. They employ hundreds of
subcontractors around Florida. And here in Lake Placid, they uh tend to hire teachers uh to to operate the tents. Uh the project's not going to disrupt nearby businesses. Uh the parking lot I just went by there today. It's a very
large parking lot as you know it's in front of Windexi there and uh they've already marked the boundaries where the tent's going to be placed. Um Mr. Driggers, I spoke with him. He said he doesn't have any problems with the conditions that the um uh Mr. Redell has
explained here today. And um we do have one issue with the uh container. Um regarding the container, uh Mr. Triggers has been using that container now for about 10 years and uh he would like to continue using that and uh he feels from
the standpoint of safety that it provides a lot more safety because it's a big metal container as opposed to a box truck that you know it could be uh potentially open to somebody come by and vandalizing or could drive away in it
some something along that nature. But uh we feel that the metal container is a lot more safe and uh we would ask the u the council to approve it on that condition. Um we uh we did request a three-year um however if the council
believes that a one-year uh approval is necessary because of the construction that's going on with the smoke shack that that's fine. We'll we'll be okay with that. Um, other than that, if you have any questions, be happy uh to answer them. Mr. Triggers and his wife
Barbara is here to uh answer any questions to as well. Thank you, sir. Any questions for the applicant? Hearing none, just one more opportunity for any public comment from the
community. Just to remind you, public comment is to be limited to three minutes. Uh we don't have one of those fancy machines like the county does. So I'll uh brief. My name is Margaret Deer. My address is 1504 French Street. Welcome to Lake Placid. I think that um
I think it's a great idea. We haven't had any issues to the best of my knowledge of the tent in front of the American Legion or at the Tower Plaza on the opposite side. Sounds like they've got their ducks in a row. They want to be nice partners. I think it's a great thing for Lake Placid. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
you. and a well- modeled public comment, I must add. Any other public comments? All right, hearing none, let me bring it back to the board for any amendments to the motion or a motion.
Dr. Oxer, would you turn that microphone on? That button toggles it on and off. The 31-day limit goes as well for the box truck or the container. Yes, sir. Yes. Is that correct, Mr. Ryell in your
recording that the limitations are on the storage unit as well? Correct. Okay. And I think a storage container probably be safer get material in and out of instead of a box truck and a lot harder to steal.
Are you ready for a motion? Yes, sir. If there is one. Number two, move to approve hearing LPBOA25.002 to allow the tenth for seasonal retail sales in the C1 Highway commercial district at Plaza 70 Lake
Plaza with the following conditions and strike number four or what was it over here? So number four amend uh item D. Oh D to storage container instead of box
truck. Okay. Was that a clear enough motion for the record? All right. And we'll strike the line that says um storage containers are prohibited because I think that followed right behind. Okay. So, it could be either at that point. All right. We have a motion on
the table. Do I hear a second? I'll second. We have a second. Any further discussion? All right. Hearing none. All in. Uh, please uh please call the role. Chairman Woods. I'm sorry.
Board member Oxer. She didn't say my name, did she? That's not yet. Okay. Yes. Board member Clark. Yes. Chairman Woods. Yes. Board member Freeman. Yes. Board
member Duncan. Yes. All right, that concludes our board of adjustments meeting. Um, so it is hereby adjourned. Let me begin now by transitioning. Thank you guys for being here today. Y'all are certainly welcome to hang around for the excitement coming
up or you can take off. Yeah, certainly. Uh, this next uh part of the meeting is a collaborative meeting. Uh certainly uh not it is a u collaborative meeting between the local planning
agency and regional utility advisory commission. Uh I will be facilitating the meeting because this is within a local planning agency meeting uh kind of chairing this discussion but ultimately we just don't have a big enough panel
for all of the regional utility to be sitting up here with us. So this is meant to be kind of a circular conversation that we certainly will create some space uh for some community uh weighin as well.
Um so you got quite a role to call here. So let's begin by calling this meeting to order and calling the role. Chairman Woods here. Board member Edgeman.
Board member Clark here. Board member Oxer here. Board member Freeman here. Alternate member Chris Duncan here. Alternate board member Mr. Ramos. All right. Thank you. I think it goes
without saying, but let me just say it to make sure everybody's on the same page. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Roll. Yeah, I we got quite a roll call. Sorry. I'm in autopilot up here. Chairman Elliot, present. Member Draper here. Member Rancort.
Member Brewer here. Member Connley here. All right. Thank you guys for joining us this evening so we can have a collaborative conversation. Just to bring everybody up to speed, this was a request from the mayor that we get together and collaborate on some
recommendations in order to hopefully um help out town council as they're trying to make a final decision on our comprehensive plan for the next uh 25 years. And so, uh I certainly consider
it a privilege that we get an opportunity to weigh in on this. We're going to be planning out past, you know, many of our lifetimes. um and really forecasting a healthy future for Lake Palacid. Uh but also know that we are a recommendation agency in this
conversation and town council will have to make the final decision. We do have some town council members present here. As much as I would love to hear them weigh in, they are not able to since there are multiples here and so we're on our own and so can't wait to hear what we come up with. Let's begin the meeting
by turning over to Miss Ryell to get us started off in this conversation. Thank you so much. So, Dana Redell, town planner for the record. On the screen, we have a copy of the Lake Placid Regional Plan Overlay Map. So just to
discuss this map for just a moment. This is historically my understanding that the LPRP is an area that was created with collaboration from Highlands County. And you see all these
areas in purple. At the time of the creation of this map, all these areas in dark purple were not annexed at this time. There has been some annexations since then up here on the north side of US 27 like where
town hall is that has been annexed and some other minor annexations throughout. Um the purpose of this map was supposed to be to guide the future annexation of the
town of Lake Placid. And the reason they put this into place was to make sure that if a property was developed in the unincorporated Highlands County that it would be developed to the same standards
that high that the town of Lake Placid has. And so that means more stringent sign code and it also means a lower density in those purple areas, those dark purple areas. In the dark purple areas, they're
limited to a density of three dwelling units per acre. In these orange areas, they're limited to a maximum density of 12 dwelling units per acre. And I think a prevailing theme
that we see with the LPRP, and I don't know if our town attorney would completely agree with me, unfortunately, he's not here right now, but I think a prevailing theme is control.
So something that happens in the LPRP in the purple and the orange areas is if anyone develops over 2 and a half acres and even sometimes under two and a half acres, it's at the discretion of the
planning and zoning official. They're required to do a plan development zoning. What that means is before they can subdivide their property, before they can have a zoning change or a future land use change, they're required
to go before the local planning agency one time and the town council two times to change their zoning. And you do it through a mechanism called PD, which means plan development.
And a plan development is a negotiation. So usually, and we do, we have standards established in our code as to what you can expect in what zoning district. So C1 is our highway
commercial district. It's one of our most intense commercial districts where you can do service establishments, drive-throughs, um retail, office. You can run a gamut of commercial uses. And then you might
have our C2 district, which doesn't allow drive-throughs and is really geared toward our downtown areas and creating walkability. So, you know what to expect when you apply these zoning districts. When you apply a PD, you're opening a
negotiation with the town. And I'm mostly looking to inform our loop rack committee because I know our local planning agency deals with this all the time. Um, you're opening a negotiation with the town where you say, "Well, I want to put
a restaurant here. The property is three acres. Um, I need to sub I need to subdivide it. I need to take a portion out." So simply because I'm splitting the property, I now have to go before the town council two times and the local
planning agency one time. This is not standard. This is not how it's done in any other municipality that I'm aware of or that I've worked with or any other county that I've worked with. This is
unique to the town of Lake Placid. It gives the town the ability to approve and reject developments as they see fit. And it might be because of a
certain standard. It might be that town council says, "Yes, we're okay with that subdivision, but we're not okay with the lot size." Whereas maybe in another municipality,
the lot sizes are simply established. So, you're either approving the zoning as is or you're not. Um, I hope that's kind of a good overview of what is triggered the moment
you're in the LPRP. So, that's that's how the town can control growth through zoning and future land use. Now, the questions tonight are really geared
toward if we want to continue this method of growth, this method of control, how this impacts our utilities. Are we working hand in hand? Does our our vision for utilities align with our
vision for the town, which for years the vision for the town has been relegated to these purple areas? Do we want to stay inside those purple areas? Do we want to be able to annex outside of those purple areas? Do we want to provide services
outside of those purple areas but not annex those areas? what are the constraints if we choose to do either one of those things? So, there's a series of questions that we have put
together that I think will help staff um take all the feedback from both boards to be able to make well-rounded and educated suggestions
to the town council, to the mayor, and will thereby be taken into consideration during the ISBA process which is the interlocal service boundary agreement process and the EAR process that's our
evaluation and appraisal review process the ISBA and I'm sorry if this is redundant I understand I think we've all kind of had some of these discussions but I'll try to just summarize it for us the ISBA conversations are conversations between all the
municipalities in the countyy's asking asking us to take over certain roads and to annex more areas where we've created enclaves in the past. They're asking us to provide certain services like
sanitation through through annexation um and potentially even take over other area. They've had other areas for our consideration that we might need to annex. So through that process, we're
working with the county as staff and who will make recommendations to town council as to what we can feasibly do and even if maybe it's not feasible, what would be the best interest in the town in the long run. So that's our ISBA process. That's
all about utilities drawing a line in the sand saying we will not cross this boundary. City of Sebring will not come down here and try to cross that boundary. and this is the area that we're willing to serve. When it comes to the evaluation and appraisal report
process or review process, that is done every seven years. Who will guide that process is the Central Florida Regional Planning Council, as far as I know, um we'll work with them to receive funding, potentially grant funding to make major
changes to our comprehensive plan that have not been done correctly in over 14 years. So, it's supposed to happen every seven years. So, tonight again, it's about putting our minds together and seeing how we can shape and grow and vision for
the future of not only the town, but the surrounding areas and you know what that means for us in the long run. So, we'll go ahead and start running through some of these questions.
Sure. Thank you, Miss Rodell. Shall we begin with uh one of the hot topics of the year is utility capacity. Indeed. So in terms of current utility capacity, um as Dustin mentioned, this is a really hot topic. I think there's
been conversations going back and forth as to what can be utilized after the construction of our new plant and what cannot be utilized. uh in terms of
capacity, if we're talking about serving the LPRP, first of all, our current town area, which is an orange, and these light purple areas. probably something I'll ask for
clarification on during our ear process because these light purple areas are considered undeveloped historic town area which means they're not vested the same way the orange properties are vested but
we'll for the sake of this discussion the we'll use the light purple and the orange areas at this time do we have capacity and the ability to serve those areas is and I don't know if anyone from Loop
wants to kind of chime in on, you know, what they're seeing in terms of capacity for those areas. You hear me? There we go. On those future areas, at this time, the plant's not finished yet, so no, we don't have the capacity.
Um, possibly in the future we might have some, but most of the capacity is reserved for septic to sewer at this time. To expand and get more capacity, we'd have to possibly add another uh
train they call it at the wastewater plant or build another one further south. But at this time, we do not have the capacity to serve all those areas. What about water? Water would be the same basic um areas.
Um we have highway park, we have downtown at the Magnolia plant and then we have Tamoka. um a a new water facility would probably be have to be developed too to serve the southern southern uh uh
portion of that because that that the purple area is out of our loop area at this time and we're still discussing if we want to expand or not as capacities related though I'm misunderstanding that once this new facil or the the addition
to our facility is finished we'll only be utilizing about 20% of the capacity of that new facility. Is that correct? That is correct. But the rest a lot majority of it's um reserved for the septic to sewer conversions which is already been essentially
designated those areas where we plan to do that which will eat up how much of the remaining 80%. Um I I believe it's probably about 65 70%. So there would have to be another expansion or another plant built
to service this the southern area water and sewer. Thank you, Mr. Warner. So, when we're talking about septic to sewer conversions, I know the original intent was specifically for septic to
sewer conversions for homes that are on water like canal lots or lake lots. If we focused our efforts strictly in the light purple and the orange areas of town, do we even have this might be a
very arbitrary question. Do we even have enough homes that need conversions in that area that would take that capacity? It's just not around the lakes. It's it's all through the loop system. um anything out of town more or less is
on a septic. So the state wants to well since they gave us the money for that new facility, they want us to get everybody off septics to protect the protect the lakes and and and surrounding water. So we'll it's a million gallon
plant. We're running at about 300,000 right now with the current uh uh service to the uh community. So that leaves you roughly probably six five to 600,000 gallons a
day. And if if if you do de development down south and if you know the capacity and putting the pipes in is a long process. So, do I hear you saying as we're
developing our regional plan, we need to have more uh planning to develop more capacity as we go? Sounds like we're already bottled up. Not only bottled up,
we have some capacity left, but as if you want more development down south, we're going to have to expand. You just went from a small small town here and then uh serving serving the residents of Lake Placid and expanded it
out to Highland County areas. And if you want to go down to 70 down that way, you're going to have to expand somewhere in the south. Water and wastewater. Any other questions or comments from either board? I see a a community member
with a comment. I wanted another thing. We're decommissioning the other sewer plants. So that's everything's going to the main plant now. So that's taking some of it, too. And we're charged with saving the lakes or cleaning it up. So
um what we're looking at is um as far as expansion goes, we need to be doing it close to bodies of water, impaired water is where we need the sewer. where we're starting correct rather than go six miles out of town and build something or
saying within 30 years I mean we need to get that done obviously within some time but I mean by the time we're looking over our shoulder in 30 years we need to have a heck of a lot more capacity for sake of development and homes absolutely so we're we I mean we've we've already spent our credit when it comes to
capacity it sounds like any other comment from our group yeah so if you're looking at financially that was paid for by grant money for a clean water deal. So, I mean, that's a tough question to ask. How are we even going to pay for it
for something that's not on the water? So, basically, you you have to have developers, you know, cover some of most of that burden. if they want to develop, we'd have to charge them and build a new facility in
in water plants. So, it it it's all development charges um because the town works only on grants for expansion of water and sewer. Miss Fentress Pam Fentress 12373 Lost Lake Drive
Greater Lake Plazet area. So, as both committees know, historically I attend both of your committee meetings. So, I see um LPA the next day utilities typically meets. I think the the thing you need to be talking about once you
have the million gallons a day capacity hopefully in February 2026 what's the timeline to come to the million gallons a day. So when the town received a $40 million D grant, there were 10 or so
project areas, Highway Park, Southtown, you know, there was, you've seen the different maps and it mapped or the map, it mapped out the different quantities. Lake Grassy, there were different areas at that time. They thought that the new million gallons a day wastewater
treatment plant would come in at around 21 million $21 million. It came in at $36 million because of COVID, because of this, but so then you have you've eaten up all $40 million is gone be it's due to consultant fees and
engineering fees which you need. So right now and and your town attorney wrote the contract with DP. Not one septic tank has to be taken off an existing user for you. the town's good and it is will have fulfilled its
contract with DP. So ha having said that part of it the intent is for water quality impaired you know um lakes you don't have any current funding you have no grant state or federal they had applied and thought
they received 2.5 million on Lake Mirror Drive um a federal grant that got axed so my thing is you it is a planning tool
realistically how many years before you get to where you you're able to do the original 10 or 11 projects. And when you get to Southtown, look at the medium income, the poverty rates. When you get to Highway Park, um it has to play into
this the the the visioning the future. Um you can say we're going to just have Central Sewer right here. Is it going to cash flow? Today I read tomorrow's utilities packet and in that that has the different reports in the cash flow
and increasing water rates increasing because right now you're not cash the utilities in cash flowing. So it's just part of it where if you annex in do you allow the um central sewer and water this committee I think
utilities maybe first LPA was the one for the natural gas line to go from 27 and 70 that's the town's industrial area up to town hall y'all been pushing for the national or natural gas line put it in the capital improvements plan util
utilities committee approved or made a recommendation to approve mobile home park state road 70 which is outside of the lake plasma regional plan outside of the utility service boundary. I think this is the crux of what you're trying to get to. Do you just keep it in this area which is
fine? If so, Placid Lakes is still on these different reports and stuff. Placid Lakes is not in your LPRP and they're not in your utility service area, but they're included in these plans um to put central sewer. I mean, I
know I talk a lot, but anyway, these are but this is a part of it. And I guess the main thing for me is the timeline. Yes, you have this million gallons a day. Realistically, is that going to take 30 years, 40 years to get if you're basing off of state and federal funding
to be able to hook up the next neighborhood, the next road? If Lake Mirror Drive alone was 2 and a.5 million to for septic to sewer conversion, how much is the different areas? Lake Grassy, how much is this area?
Um different different plans for different areas, I guess. I don't know if that helped or hurt it, but well, no, thank you and stand by. I'm sure you're going to be helpful for some of these conversations, Miss Fentress. Thank you. Related to capacity,
uh any other questions, comments, or even the point of this is recommendations um that we would be able to share uh towards council's direction. And fortunately, u all of them are actually here listening, so we know it'll make it
there. Any right Margaret Deer again for the record 1504 French Street. Um, how binding is this LPRP area right now or would it be is this a tool for
the future or are we limited to that because I'm looking at this map and you see on 621 there's a big wide space and then there's all of a sudden another purple
space which makes zero sense cuz I'm in that white space called Highlands Park Estates with a whole bunch of houses and there is no pathway to citizenship for me that whole Highlands Park Estate
Silven Shores there's no contiguous nor does it look like there's any plan for us to be included in the town of Lake Placid if we look at this at the purple highlighted areas. So, I'm just more curious about the methodology at how
this was originally constructed and is it going to be reviewed or is that currently something we're going to continue to work on or one of the layers of this conversation will be about annexation and utility services to the possible annexed areas. I'm not sure
what all areas are being considered like if yours is or not, but um but I know annexation is a part of the right but my guess would be is that annexation would never even be considered if you're not part of that purple LPRP area. I think that that is correct and that's so
that's what I'm I'm curious I'm not Annexation is not part of my conversation at this particular point. I'm just more curious about this greater LP RP area that's big and bold and beautiful in purple and the areas that are excluded and then the areas that are
included. Is there any background information as to how they became part and parcel of this plan? That's all. And I'm not sure that I can answer that. Do you have any comment, Miss Ryel? No,
that's a great question for our town attorney, Bert Harris, who was here when it was created. Uh, yes, please, by all means. I don't need you to be quick. Just be right. Or Pam Fentress, who was also here. History is a help. 20 years ago,
it was a four-year process. We met every other week. Some of the the meetings lasted four hours at a time. What you had was the the Lake Plaza regional plan. Um there was a committee uh Haw Compton cheered it for half the time.
Ray Royce cheered it for the other half time. You had voluntary land owners um wanting into the Lake Placid Regional Plant. Some of my family's the donut hole. We fought to stay out of it. I see. And so and there was reason. We
spent $80,000 in consultant fees at our own transportation study. Um, the reason you're asking on the property to the right, that's the Fipers property. They want it in there. No doubt my mind say no more. No. Well, I'm just saying there's Randy Drestell's um over here
towards there's just by Lake Country Elementary. But back then, hometown democracy was happening. It was going to be a ballot initiative. We land owners, citrus grove owners were scared to death that if you didn't go in and get your zoning changed right then and that day,
you would never ever be able to. People cut deals at I know Dana just said three units per acre. It is three gross units. It's two net units per acre and then the 12 unit the transfer the clustering in the historic I think that's it goes has
to average back to the two units per acre but that's what it was. um north, south, there was east and west. Each each group area hired their own consultants and and they forged ahead. But it was a battle. There were 78 meetings. I went to 77 of them. Um and
this is this is why you have some along inner lake that didn't want in it some smaller parcels, but but that's why it's not contiguous. Okay. Just wanted to make sure that y'all weren't making decisions based on on this and how we got the other properties included. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks to both of you. Go
ahead. Well, I'm assuming Highlands Park Estates at the time was already platted and laid out and rolling in that direction. So, they were trying to pick properties that we could change in the future. Uh let's uh is there I'm not hearing a hard and
fast recommendation at least at this point. Anything from Loop Rack uh for the good of this part of the conversation as it relates to capacity? Tomorrow we're having our meeting to answer these questions for our recommendations to uh town council. Um
my understanding that we were both going to make our own recommendations. So I don't know we won't be making a recommendation till after our meeting tomorrow. Okay. Well, and yeah, and that's fine. Yeah. And then I certainly would like to hear some of the preliminary thoughts, right, or
possible recommendations during this time if there are any. If there's not, we'll move on to the next line. Okay. But thank you. Yeah. While this is on record, this is, I believe, still an informal process tonight to some
degree. And if you're going to annex something, the the areas being annexed needs to have some sort of benefit to be annexed. If they're going to get annexed and get no water, get no sewer, they're going to get police protection, but they're not going to get any other benefit.
for a higher tax area. So, you really have to look at if you're going to annex, are you able to provide those services, Mr. Mr. Chairman? Uh my name is Gary Freeman and um I'm going to make some comments that um because I used to run
the utilities and I was in utilities for 40 years and the way this is done all over the United States is through impact fees. We call them here system development charges and the and the way it's done is it's done through an
engineering study that is comprehensive. It's done for the entire area. It can be done in C. It's I can give you examples. I can give you examples of Jacksonville. They
formed a utility authority. A utility authority does everything. The engineering, the whole nine yards. Fort Pierce Utilities. I work I worked there for six years and um it's the same thing. They had like 15 engineers that
worked there. But it started back in 72 in Fort Pierce that I'm familiar familiar with. And it's done through these impact fees. When a new construction comes on, I'm just going to give you an example like this the plant that we just built or we're building the
5,000. It's it the capacity is about 5,000 gallons and uh that turns out to be about $250 and but you have to add that up and then multiply it by what the changes are
in the in the total picture of the entire area. So another one is Gainesville. Gainesville regional utility is uh it's actually as I remember it's a it's a an authority but what hap what happens is a master plan
is done and it can be done over a period of 5 to 10 years. The master plan is done by by engineers and they determine like the 12 per acre. That's that's a standard. There's going to be 12 units per acre. So that's a
given. You can you can uh reverse engineer it so that you come back and but you have to it has to be approved by the council to spend the money over a period of time. Like I said 5 to 10 years but that's that's that's
feasible because the impact fee every time someone hooks up there's an impact fee and that's the way it is here. But if developers come in and they want want to develop that that impact fee is charged for each unit. That impact fee is for future. That's what it stands
for. System development charge is for capital expense, which would be for the lines, the lift stations, all of it. And in the water, it's the same way. It's just different uh pieces of construction. And but it's it's not
anything that can be done by just wishing for grants and all that. It's done with a a vision for the future. General Development Utilities, which I I worked for for like I don't know 15 years. They were the largest developer in the in the state, and they started
back in the 1950s, and they did this just like that. If you go to Port Charlotte and you go out there and you take 72 and go down toward Charlotte, you you'll see on the left a water plant that's there. They serve four counties
there. That's done by studies, engineering studies that determine what the growth is going to be in that area. And that that water plant came online in 1980. But that was started in 1950 because it was for general development.
And I'm just trying to explain that that's how it's really done. We don't depend on grants. You you use actual figures. The only problem is it has to be paid for. Engineers have to be paid. And so that's why it's spread out over
time if there's not a a a large funding source and we don't have that here. But it's just a thought to bring up that eventually I think that the town council is going to have to decide whether they want to really do a master plan. I brought that up back in about 19 I mean 200 and um I don't know 10 somewhere in
there and that the cost was just going to be too much. But that's all at one time. If you spread it out over, like I said, five or 10 years. And the engineers that we have now, they used to be called in advisors. Uh Roger Holman and Steve Elias are
quite familiar with doing this kind of study. So then you determine what the actual cost is really going to be. I mean, I know Pam is Pam Fentress is really interested in in how to do this, but that's how it's done all over, including water, all over the United
States. I got a couple of books on it on how to do that, but uh I thought I'd bring that up just throw that in there for some maybe conversation. So, Mr. Freeman to make sure I I'm understanding with someone who doesn't have that
strong of utilities background. Um you're saying that a study should be performed across the entire municipality maybe in phases and as part of that study it will determine the growth
projections of each area and then assign the impacts to each unit being developed there. And that's how you fund future development as opposed to grant
funding each each thing. Okay. But you have to put the money up first and wait to get it. Ma'am, you have to put the money up first and then wait to get it when people come in and hook on. Right. Put the money up for the studies. Yeah.
Well, Placid Lakes is is a good example because they had the same I I did about three different rate studies with general development and they the people that Plaza Lakes use are the same people we use at GDC and um but it's it's very detailed
extremely detailed and uh but it can be done but it's a it's a long projection. It's not something he's done in five years actually, you know. Yeah. But you're right. Exactly right. And I think that goes back to some
conversations that you and I have had about so master planning for the entire LPRP municipality. We have some vague plans like we know in the north area there's you know it's encouraged certain things are encouraged
in the south area, west and east. have certain encouragements but maybe not entitlements for certain areas. It it would actually be better if the county was involved, Avon Park was involved, Seurn was involved and Lake Plaster was involved. Then the engineering company
can get paid by all those people and then it's spread out and then we become more of a unit. the whole county becomes a unit. Like in like in uh uh Jacksonville, that whole county is the
city. The whole county became the city. I think Dade County is the same way. I mean, we're talking about time and we're all not going to be here by that time, but it's it's something that needs to be come up and discussed, I think.
So, as part of our recommendations, it might include a master plan, a master plan for utilities and future growth. Um, thank you so much for your comments, Mr. Freeman. And I think some
of these next questions might delve a little bit deeper into some of these areas that we've been discussing. So the next point was and I think Loopra has kind of covered this. Do the boards agree the town should serve outside of
the LPRP to get the surrounding residential neighborhoods off sewer. And it sounds like that's what loop that's the route you all had agreed to, right? That's correct. Um there's just no money and the town
utilities department is stretched. They're doing all they can do. So till there's more money, we can't get more people. We can't do stuff without like you're saying something to fund all this a grant, whatever impact fees,
whatever the mode may be. Do you believe we should also extend? Hang on, Dana. Um, basically, you know, we are ch, you know, we are charging the development fees and stuff, but they're going to go into a fund for we'll just use the the
wastewater plant, the wastewater side will for future development, but if we don't have the connections, we're not getting development fees. So right now we're running we after all the other plants wastewater plants are decommissioned we're only going to be
running 300,000 gallons a day at a million gallon plant and if we don't have according to Florida statute if you get um grants and stuff from DEEQ and you know the statute says mandatory
hookups everybody I've talked to kept saying it's up to municipality Actually, I talked to someone from the state and they said, "No, we're not in compliance. You're supposed to impose that." But if you don't put that into your town code uh uh utility codes, you're not going to
get people to hook up to pipes that are in front of the houses. You're not going to grow. You're going to be stagnant. Um the the plant's going to run around 300,000 and it's not good for the plant. It's designed for, you know, up to a million gallons. So, it's it's a bunch
of steps and ordinance changes and funding changes to make to make the utility grow and become uh strengthened and then we can develop out of this area. But we got a big apple right here in our uh uh loop area that
needs to be done first. Um you know, well, a lot of the stuff is uh the plants downtown. I mean, uh, over on Smoke Road. So, working north, south, and then trying to get the pipes and
everything up that way and connections. And then as that develops there, you expand the plant or build another one. Same with the water. And then you can move south. We we only we only go down so far with water and
wastewater. But if you want to have that development down to 70, we're going to have to expand. And to expand, you're going to have to have connections to get funding. And like I said, a master plan, but a master plan is not it's a great
idea, but it it should basically say, okay, stay where you're at, finish up what you got, get your septic to sewer done, and then expand. And then if everything, you know, 10, 20 years down the road, you could expand out of the area to continue
your growth. But it all depends on development. um the utility is there to to supply it, but we we will only go as far as the development goes. It's not feasible to expand and not get connections and funds
coming to the utility. So, so I'm hearing that our annexation plan, what has been known as the LPRP has been informally known as our annexation plan, but our needs have shifted as well as
the lakes's needs have shifted. So, it sounds like maybe our annexation plan doesn't align with the LPRP and maybe it doesn't need to align with the LPRP. Thinking out
loud. U maybe it doesn't need to align with the LPRP. The LPRP goes back to control what we want to see happen in our town. And our
utilities are about lake health and at this point keeping an efficient plant. Keeping our plant healthy and our lines extended
and having an equal balance like an even equitable balance for utility income versus output. It kind of sounds like we're going two different directions, which going into this conversation, I
was more in line with the thought that our utility should align with the LPRP, but it doesn't seem like it's in the best interest of our financial situation, our lake situation, our
tourism situation, ultimately our economic development situation. So just thinking just putting that out there. Um so to move on to the next question which narrows
down our scope even further because we're talking a lot about sewer and our septic to sewer. My understanding, again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, is sewer is generally where we lose money, but water is where we can
make money and recover funds. So, when we're extending sewer lines outside of our municipal boundaries, do we also want to extend water lines in all those same areas? Dana, yes. you you don't make
more money on wastewater water. It's the connection fees that give you the funds to run and maintain the facility. You need to run water lines with the sewer line so we can meter the sewer uh capacity back off the water
meter. Otherwise, you're you're putting in another kind of meter that will have to measure the flow of the wastewater. Um, all municipalities base their wastewater off the water bill and it's not the point of making we don't make money. We're nonprofit. We just need the
money for expansion and maintenance of existing and old systems. And that's that's probably one of the bigger parts. You know, you have old system here in town and stuff that needs to be maintained, replaced, and upkept. So, you know, if you keep expanding out,
you're using some old pipes to get to the the new plant, you're going to run into issues. So, it's it's not it's not the fact of we make money on wastewater. We don't. We get revenue to maintain it,
expand it, and keep it going. Um, thank you. So, when we receive grants, Mr. Warner, for septic to sewer conversions, does that mean we're automatically also receiving grant money
for waterline extensions? Not automatically. We we we ask for grants for water extensions, too. Every time we design an area that we have sitting here for the future water system is designed with right aside right alongside of the
wastewater and the town operates on grants. There is no development uh fund right now with you know where a lot of municipalities have that large funding to expand their system. So the town here
works on grants to expand their system. So, if we get grant funding for sewer extension, but we don't have any water lines to serve that same area, can the sewer be used at all? It
can, but it's more costly. You're you're better off putting the water lines in first and then if you get a grant for waste water, put them in. And we have a lot of water lines where there's not sewer all the way up to what Lake Francis we have it right. I don't if y'all have ever seen the map of our
water lines versus our sewer lines. That might be helpful to to look at. And those maps are up there on the table, I believe, of the sewer system. Um, yeah, because that you put the water in, so you meter it, and then when you come up with the money to put the waste
water in, get them off the septics, their their uh billing comes off the water bill. So, that's a way we have a a way of charging or the connection and charging monthly fees. In the interest of time, I'd ask
that we move on to the next item of discussion. I think we've kicked around some of it, but annexation and utility service areas unless there are any specific questions you need to bat around in
section one. Dana, with the annexation to the to the utility, it really doesn't matter. We're just giving a service, water and sewer. The the annexation is more for administration, you guys, and everything else trying to find the money from public works for to pick up
sanitation to maintain the roads. Uh annexation doesn't affect us one way or another for giving them service. That's helpful because the the tax base goes to the town. It doesn't go to the utility. Water payments and sewer payments go to the enterprise fund.
That's how we're funded. So, but now then you have sanitation which is another enterprise fund but then you have another row fund that taxes will go towards that. So you got to find out if you have a big enough staff um for sanitation and public works to maintain
the roads. Is is the you guys have to make that decision. Is the is it cost effective to the to the town to take over these things because some of them are in bad shape now you're going to have to fix them. So, are there any needs currently going
unfulfilled within our town limits? Are there any needs currently going unfulfilled? Within our town limits? Time. I I can't hear you back here. Uh, one of the questions we have in our notes here, are there any needs currently going unfulfilled within our
town limits for the relationship for utilities? Yeah, it it's just the basic maintenance. Um, your sewer systems old. Uh, I'm working on getting some lining done for lift stations. Uh, we pipe bursted and replace some water man, but there's other places that need to be
done. Um, I just pulled a well uh uh apart over at Mangol Magnolia and having that replaced. So you have an older infrastructure that needs to that's been kind of left behind and we're trying to start working on getting that up plus
doing the development. So you know we need if we get more connections we can do more better maintenance and upgrades and stuff like that. So so like I said it's just the the standard stuff for an older system try to you know maintain it and keep it
upgraded. So, so there there are some issues in town that that need to be upgraded. So, are there any areas that infrastructure simply will not be feasible? Like perhaps the slope is is too steep or you know, we had the big
conversation regarding gravity versus force when the conversations were happening about septic to sewer. Um, is there anything you see that you say, "What is the local planning agency thinking? There's just absolutely no way we could even install and maintain
infrastructure in that area." No, there's ways to do it. You know, your water your water is all pressurized, so you can go up and down. It doesn't matter. Um, it's going to be determined for the wastewater side, the low pressure. Um, gravity is
three, usually three times as much to do it that way. Um, with with the state of the the utility, we can get three times more uh sewer pipe put in the ground and then a gravity. Um, you could with the
low low pressure gravity, you can go up and down. So, there's no issues of actually giving service. It's just the type of service you're going to get. Um, I think here's kind of one of our million-dollar questions. I'll combine these next two
questions. So, the LPRP directs higher intensity growth to our downtown areas. We mentioned earlier, the orange and light purple areas are allowed up to 12 Well, the orange areas are allowed up to 12 dwelling units per acre. The other purple, dark purple areas are only allowed up to three dwelling units per
acre. Um, so keeping in mind that the infrastructure is older in our downtown areas, can the infrastructure that we have support that existing density of 12 dwelling units
per acre? And to ensure we're not leaving infrastructure on the table, what is a suitable density for efficient infrastructure? the infrastructure in in the purple areas is probably sufficient, but if
not, if someone wants to develop down there, they'll have to pay uh the development uh fees and uh upgrade the system at their expense. The light purple areas, the light purple. Yeah. What what area you're talking about? Yeah.
But for that density, most mostly the infrastructure there, I believe, would probably handle that. But in the occasion that, you know, it's not, then they they'll have to upgrade the system at the uh developer's expense.
Dana, do I hear you asking though in in the current with the current system, what would be the bullseye of units per acre to maintain efficiency with what we currently have
would be 12 units or 30 units or two units? What would be max efficiency with what we currently have? Correct. Exactly. So I think when we're talking about number of connections and how that impacts our utility and our ability to
uh maintain our utility when we don't have that number of connections and then we're talking about the greater LPRP which is the dark purple area and we're we're stopping at only three
dwelling units per acre um which comes out as Pam said to really once you put a road in there and all those things like two dwelling units per acre. So that's about a half an acre and you have one connection. Is that in Loop Rack's
opinion a efficient use of our infrastructure? And if not, is there any sweet number that you could think of that really actually does make the best use of our infrastructure? If you have one connection on something
like that, it's it's not feasible. But as as you expand going down and you you pick up that service, but you with the put a new line in there, we're picking up services down the road, too. So, it's just not the point of your density of
three houses per acre. We're picking up as you go down the road. So you can do something to that effect and still be cost cost effective because as you expand like that, you know, you're expanding the
water and sewer down to uh to other areas where other connections are. We're not going to go into like a subdivision right now where there's 10 houses and and run a water mane up there and have one connection. So basically,
that's why we were talking um mandatory hookups. So if it goes in front of your house, then it becomes more more effective for us cuz as we run down the roads and like a grid system and coming off that, we're picking up connections.
What about apartment complexes? Are those really beneficial generally for utilities in terms of the number of connections and the return on investment? I don't know you say beneficial but you
know uh you know it's a master meter. It it just depends on the the flows on it. It's it's revenue for us you know and it's on a line that's going past them. There's other people on it. it, you know, it's beneficial because of the funding part of that because usually
with a there's a minimum of a 6 inch, you know, fire protection line going in there and depending on the con uh the apartments, you know, it's up to a 4 inch. So, yeah. So, it's revenue and it's and you know, it's one piece on
that line and as that line goes on, you're picking up other other connections. So moving on to the next section for sustainability and resiliency. There's been a lot of discussion regarding vacations of right ofway recently. And one of the arguments
used to say that we should keep the right ofways is the argument that we might need it for infrastructure like water and wastewater lines. So if you could
picture a lot of the alleyways, maybe it would be beneficial if I could pull up our interactive map. Um there's a lot that run mainly through our downtown areas. They're just these platted areas that were just left kind of unplatted
and dedicated to the town. Not necessarily designated as alleyways or roads, but by virtue of what they are have become that Dana, you never want to get rid of a rightway. Otherwise, we
have to go back and purchase utility easements. You never want to give up a rightaway, you say? Right. because water sewer goes down there. If the rightway is gone, then we have to negotiate util utility agreements with the the homeowners as but now with the rightway
we don't have to take a look at some of these alleyways real quick. Just so alleyways like here by the railroad. Alleyways I'm not worried about. It's the rightway on the
roads. Right away on the roads like here's an alleyway. Um, could utilities potentially be run? I'm talking water and wastewater utilities. Would there be a benefit to having them run in these alleyways as
opposed to No. No. Alleyways. It's more difficult to maintain and repair uh right away out front of the buildings is the the preferred area for water and wastewater. Okay. Thank you. And with those rightaways
that gives you uh it benefits gas, fiber, every you know everybody electrical running down there. So okay. So, I think we answered our next question, which is one of the purposes of the LPRP is meant to support our
lakes and environment. Is it doing its job? The answer has to be no because we're going outside of the LPRP in order to actually accomplish accomplish those goals. Right? So, if the LPRP is used
as our annexation strategy, it is not doing us a service right now. um energy efficient utility infrastructure. Is there anything we should know about or that we're lacking in that area? You know, again, utilities
is not our bread and butter. So, is there any way that local planning agencies should be encouraging more energy efficient infrastructure through our zoning approvals?
Doesn't affect your utility. Okay. you know, it might benefit, you know, for parks and stuff like that. You might be able to save money on lights and, you know, stuff like that. But on our side, you know, we try to get the we replace pumps, try to get the most efficient
pumps we can get and things of that nature. So, so our next question is in regards to the capital improvement plan. So, I'm not sure Loop Rack is fully privy. I I'm sure you understand that in the background
somewhere on an annual basis, the town council approves a capital improvement plan. Historically, that's come before local planning agency because oftent times it's been handled by planning staff. Going forward, it will be handled
by our budgeting staff as it is in many other municipalities. Um, but that doesn't mean it won't come to LPA. Is this something that might be beneficial for Loop Rack
to see on an annual basis so that when we're planning for future infrastructure improvements and expansion, you might be able to say, "Wait a minute, we need to do something about this area or we discussed this and it's
not part of our financial plan. Of course, it' be beneficial. Then we could see if uh uh you know, if if we had the uh some already plans drawn up for an area for water and wastewater, we might have to, you know, enlarge it or if you did something else, you know, downsize
it. Um but all our capital on the utilities is uh through the grants. So, but no, all that information would be very helpful to give us the information to see see if we need to upgrade the uh
plans, you know. I love it. Thank you. Um, you know, we go on to should there be goals and policies in the comprehensive plan that direct opportunities for future growth? if in place should the town pursue grant
funding at these goals. And honestly, we have an infrastructure element, but I think what our comprehensive plan severely lacks [Music] is directives for direction.
Sounds a little redundant, but um you know, we might establish our level of service at 130 gallons per day or or what it means to serve a dwelling unit and what's required for that. But I don't think as far as infrastructure
goes, in the infrastructure element, we're specifically saying things like the town shall extend utilities where feasible to preserve lakes outside of town limits, you know, or within town
limits. So, um I think that's kind of a no-brainer, but is there any comment on that? That's what that master plan should be but done for other utilities. So it'll give us a plan of direction. I believe they've started one
but there's not much one really put together and the cost again on that to have that done. Awesome. And then here's this other this other million-dollar question that I've stumbled upon and um agonized over in
recent months in terms of our concurrency. The way that our land development regulations are arranged and even the county's land development regulations are arranged is that you're required to get a letter
stating that water and wastewater capacity is available. But unless you are like a private provider or a community plant or a
regional utility, it doesn't actually require you to purchase capacity, which is something that we're discussing changing and I think is a pretty big priority for us. Um, as I
think it's been a theme of tonight of Yeah, you know, if you want capacity for let's say a 100 new homes, you need to purchase capacity at the time of concurrency. So concurrency is during the development review process
where it establishes that this development does meet the level of service requirements. Meaning we're not going to plat a 100 lots and only be able to serve five of them with water. If we're going to plat a 100
lots and it decreases the town's level of service or ability to provide services to anyone else, then we need to as Mr. Warner say pay in to a fund to improve the plant so that we can meet
the demands from all the homes that are currently homes and businesses that are currently linked to our system. So I think just part of this question is is does loop rack and the local planning
agency first see a need for us to require the purchase of capacity at the time of concurrency and also if concurrency um if the developer either chooses not to use or does not use the capacity
within a certain time. Should we build language into the ordinance to return that reservation to them, those funds? So, basically, the letter of capacity is saying we're capable. It's not yours.
It's not reserved until you pay it. So, anybody can come up and ask to see if we have capacity for 100 lots, 150 lots, two lots. That is no guarantee that that that the capacity is still going to be for them when they come back. So once
they go through the development part and they're ready to do um you know actual construction, they need to pay for those reservations up front or as they're being built. Yes. Right. Right. Thanks for the
correction. And development fees, you know, they're paying into it. That that's a legal question you'd have to ask to give it back to them, you know. you know, they they reserved it. You know, you might have had a chance to sell it to somebody else. So, there
should be some kind of penalty or something. But again, that's a legal question if it's that's feasible because you just took it away from somebody else. Then you expect to get it back. I don't think they take it away from
them if they're going to replace it, right? Like I said, you know, but most time they develop, they'll ask for for 100 lots, but they only develop 20 lots and only buy 20 lots. And if they sell real good, they they still need to build me a
sewer that will supply 100 lots. Look at it, right? But then if they don't pay for all them, they only pay for like 20 of them. Okay, now I want more. or oh I can't you know uh the no one's buying them and you know I can't sell them so I I don't want that
reservation. So but again that's that's all an attorney question you have to ask Bert. Yeah I like the idea of potentially transferring it to someone else if they pay. Um because so when you do it at the
time of concurrency that's before any construction happens but you need to do it before the construction happens because you know it's it's before construction happens but right before approval happens for them to be able to do construction. So it's not supposed to
be like a year or two before you actually proceed with construction. It's supposed to be right before. So you get that concurrency approval and then you have maybe like a Lake Rashard situation where someone
gets approval for a preliminary plant. They say yes, everything's okay. You can move forward. You have an improvement plan. Go ahead, start installing the infrastructure. We give all this approval. But then they go belly up and you know
maybe years later they come in and say, "Well, you already approved us for 300 homes. Well, you didn't reserve it. Maybe if you did reserve it, we would have put that money into, you know, whatever improvements we
needed. But if an improvement is paid for with that money, then I don't necessarily think we can refund someone because we in good faith as the town move forward based on your promise that you were going to develop certain things
if we didn't use that money. So yeah, rabbit hole. I think it is an attorney question, right? Um, but again, like you just said, you know, we we we took some of your develop money and did some adding or upsizing of pipes and
stuff, you know, I can't see it going back. So, and usually when they go belly up, someone they'll sell the property, they shouldn't get the reservations with that property because, you know, say it's like Lake Rishard, I those pipes been in the ground 20 years and
everything else. Everything has to be re-reed and, you know, updated and stuff. got to start from scratch at that point. So I think that kind of covers how the LPA and utilities might overlap or maybe after this meeting we determined that in
the case of the town of Lake Placid, they might not overlap as much as we thought that they would. Um, and in one of our future discussions, we should hone in on the annexation of roads and sanitation and break the conversation down in that way as well as parks and
recreation. Yeah, I appreciate that and I know that this is all intertwined and some necessary discussion certainly, but I think I feel the pressure of um us putting this comprehensive plan in
place and doing so with a maintenance mindset or just catching up mindset, we're going to be in the same spot 30 years from now. And I don't I don't have a master strategy in my head, but I I can't I'm wondering I mean are there grants out there that would
help or at least get us moving in the direction of a master plan as a community because we can't even support our own town right now. And with the decline in the citrus industry, we're not going to be able to. And we're a bit of a little
landlocked entity down here, which is part of why I love Lake Placid is I have to drive through miles and miles of nothing to get here. That's why I love being here. Uh but I certainly am concerned that if our 30-year strategy is going to
be as a with the mindset of well, you know, this is all we can do because this is the only money that we have, then we're only going to be behind. And I recognize that's a reality. I mean the money talks but what I mean what option and I guess I'm kind of talking to town
council too. you guys have the the burden on your shoulders of casting vision for the next 25 to 30 years, but um I mean Lake Placid I feel like is in such a pivotal spot right now that this
the development of this plan is either going to tip the dominoes towards health and development or it's going to tip the dominoes towards what we're seeing in a lot of PK county municipalities rural ones like Fort me and Frost Proof just the man as industry of citrus is pulled
out, then it's just dried up communities, dried up businesses. I mean, churches are shutting down. It's it's it's pitiful. We've got this incredible spot right here. But if we aren't ready to we've got to prepare ourselves to build
a backs stop that's going to be able to catch industry, catch people, and I'm not talking about I I'm I'm in the let's preserve the beauty and the small town atmosphere of Lake Plaid. I'm not in the if I wanted development, I moved to Winter
Haven. But I I definitely want us to at least be able to to build a trellus up under what we have and what we hope to have in the years to come. Um everything from industry to education and parks and the stuff that really is going to make
this an even sweeter place 20 or 30 years from now. Housing. I mean, good lord. H how do you you know, we're in a spot. We're in a spot. And I know the onus is on town council, but I know that these groups can help
with some ideas. And so as we're sorting out some of these, you know, necessary things like capacity, um, annexation and such, um, I feel like we're a bit of the blind leading the blind if we don't actually have a
trajectory, a target we're shooting for. And so, I mean, I guess I'm kind of going back to what Gary's saying is we we actually need a plan. Um otherwise we're just planning to fail. And how do we get there? How do we
get there? Because that would inform how we want to address things like capacity, selling capacity or withholding certain capacity, etc. for example, that would inform annexation and all the things that are on our list. You know, right now we're just reacting instead of
responding to our vision as a town. So that's that's not even a I think I I don't even know if there's a recommendation in there other than if there's a way for us to get a master plan
rolling. I mean, I think it's I I don't think we have any choice not to. Uh we're just shooting oursel in the foot if we don't. And that's not aimed at anybody in particular. I think I'm just speaking of the state of the union.
I I wholly agree with you and don't think that we don't have vision. We're just looking at reality feeling like we need to take care of our house first. Oh, Matt. Seriously? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Please hear before we get a bigger pot, you know? Yeah. You guys are meant to steward the current utility. I'm not expecting the utility
to come up with a vision for the future of Lake Plastid. I'm thinking just the collective brain trust that sitting here tonight. Um um yeah, we yeah, utilities got to steward what is, but we we've got to have a plan for
what could be. And that's not on the utility to sort out. And I'm not trying to put it on four people that are council either, but I think I'm just I think that's the state of where we are as a community. And uh and it is obviously it is going to ride on council to ultimately make that decision. But
gosh, I mean, ladies, let us know how we can help in that because something's got to be something's got to give. Lake Placid's too incredible to not lead it forward. So, you saying you have a whole
book worth of re, you know, how we can move forward, but I agree. A lot of yellow tabs. We do need to get a master plan, one for utilities and one for your your area and merge them together. Yes, sir. Yeah, they've got all they got they have to
they have to uh be in line with each other and then as you develop your your area where you want to go, we can follow with the utilities. So, you know, it's going to be a a group effort there, you know, with two master uh uh plans to go
forward. Yes, sir. Yeah. I'm certainly not aiming at a Lake Placid utility plan. I'm just saying our regional trajectory for the future has got to have some good chops in it. Miss Fentress. Pam Fentress. So Dana, this is going to be a question towards you. I
think we need to have a a clear foundation. So, the Lake Placa regional plan and I have maps and it was built. Here's a 2030 buildout at two units, density units per acre. This is town
council minutes. I cleared off a filing cabinet and I came across all these things. Transportation model is based on two units per acre build out in the Lake Biden regional plan. So, so I would say is is that true? And if it is true, do
these committees agree that that's great. All through the purple, the Lake Placid Regional Plan area, we think the density should be two net units per acre. I think that
is the next branch of our conversation. Well, I mean, there's just several things, but you need to figure out. Do we like low density? Um environmentalists even tell you low density is bad. You're creating urban sprawl by what this lake classes
regional plan is doing. I go back here's a town council meeting from um February 2011 and you're talking about the exact same stuff. You're talk I've seen this. I've been to decades of these meetings. Every five years, seven years, you go
through these things again. We're going to get a plan. You get a study. You got there's a study here and it's this is a lake uh drive water man extension lake mirror loop and it and you do the um how many customers going to be on here how
much the cost is and then it goes to the wayside and four or five years later somebody said we need to do a study and y'all do another study you've done reservations of water in the past this is from 2006 you had um Ken Leblanc he
he paid the town $90,000. Some people in Lake June Point paid 8,800 for eight lots. And then town council decided uh they didn't like reservations for water capacity. Refund all the deposits. So here's a list. Deborah Worley's on this
list. She got refunded. I think the town um attorney will talk about if you were to set it at 3,200 development fee per unit, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, which he's talking about now. um for today's prices five years from
now what if you short change the next train on the wastewater treatment plant I don't know but in between this and this there has to be something reasonable and compromise so I I think and whoever wrote I think it was Dana's the pages that you're going over today
about um when you're at the concurrency or when you're getting ready to build because the the developers they need to know that things are lined up, not just that there's potential for capacity, but if they're going to take the next step, that it's they could actually pay in
advance. You've got the county does a lot of master planning. 2024, they do these different reports and some of it in here is listed master planning. Um, right now the county is doing the
2050 ear comp plan amendments. That'll be done by fall. Town of Lake Placid is in the process of doing the 2050 year comp plan amendments early 2026. In the PNZ, the county's P&Z meeting next week, it talks about the town of Lake Placid.
This is in their LDRs and in the comp plan, the town of Lake Placid utilities to include former Placid utilities and highway park utilities shall endeavor to provide. It lists it talks about the town throughout this and it talks about
density. It talks about unincorporated areas. It has a lot of information that I think y'all need to be able to plan. I think the problem is we get so focused on u being reactive. This treatment plant blew up. We got to,
you know, fix it right now. We don't we're not planning ahead. And I know that's you're talking about doing, but recently in the last three months, somebody on Lake June Road came in and they were we're going to give you $40,000 for the central water. And um
versus up sizing the line would have cost a h 100,000. So I think the guy paid $40,000. We don't y'all don't ha y'all I guess I'm going to look utilities. You don't have any reserves to be able to upsize these lines. even if somebody's doing cost share. They
paid 40,000 this guy. But if you had upsized it, then you could take in other customers. So that's a part of the plan, too. But there there are reports being done at the county level. And that I guess my point was a lot of stuff's happening. The town doesn't have the
staff to like, oh, we're going to go to PMZ meetings and county commission meetings and we're going to go to central all the central Florida region planning council meetings. There are maps, beautiful maps being done that has the stuff that y'all need, the hot spots for the septic tanks in in around Lake
Placid. It's not just in the county. Um, and I don't know whose responsibility that is. I don't know what money or what staff person you need, but there's a world of information out there. Y'all just don't see it. Um, I don't know if that makes sense or
not, but and I don't know how the county doesn't have a utilities department. So when they do reports to D about Okchobee, BMAP or all this stuff, they abdicate all the responsibilities to the municipalities. Their response to D all
the time, we don't have a utilities department. Therefore, we don't we we are fully in compliance. We don't have to comply. We don't have a utilities department. So, it's not a responsibility that puts the burden back on the municipalities and on the town. I personally think the county should give
y'all funding and SAR and AM Park. You're doing a yman's task and there's there's no revenue to do it. Um, but there should be either the county engineer, the county natural resource,
the county um in did I say engineer? I don't know. But anyway, there they should be a part of this with the town and helping y'all be in compliance and helping you plan. I know that's a lot. Well, thank you.
Uh Dana, if I understand your most recent comments, they were kind of rounding out tonight's conversation that there might be a if we were to do another collaborative discussion, it would run a certain direction or another. Is that what you were suggesting?
I think tonight's discussion, comments, and feedback are helpful for staff as they continue to move forward toward our ear process. So, to Miss Ventress's point, we're participating in the conversations with
Highlands County regarding their ear process. Um, and this same information will be presented to the Central Florida Regional Planning Council when they perform our ear process. When they come to us and they ask us for our direction,
we will have already done some of the work. We are being beyond proactive right now. Um, so we will have already done a good portion of the work that they need in order to have a better consensus from us. We know from tonight I think and this is something I've been
talking about for years that Gary's mentioned for a while. You're you've mentioned tonight we we need that master plan. I think that's we come to that conclusion tonight and it's not something that staff just starts tomorrow. That's
something that we bring forward as part of our ear and ISBA process and say this is a need of ours. We leverage it. we use it so that we can gain that actual plan that
we need in the future, if that makes sense. Well, and thank you to you, you and staff for the hard work that y'all put in. I do recognize that for our municipality, you guys are stretched pretty thin. And um if if there is nothing else from town
planner or town staff or either one of the boards, um I'm inclined to recommend. I got one little comment. Yes, sir. And that is this is for the D utility director and he and I haven't talked about this but I don't know where the if there's going to
be a rate study and he doesn't have you don't have to respond uh Bert but a rate study a really good rate study will deal with a lot of this financial stuff that we're talking about. So I I don't it's it's been like 13 years, but it that
impact fee that system development charge is critical that it's that it's done in a special way that it gets every single capital expense that is needed including lines, lift stations, you name it. So it may need to be upgraded. I
think when I left it was 2,700. I don't know what it is now. But that also includes the operation side with the with the with the water fees and all that, the regular usage fees which takes care of the maintenance of everyday operations. And I just want
to bring it up because a rate study could be important along the way here. Yeah, Gary, we just uh had Florida Water do it. I'm bringing it to uh Lupra tomorrow and town commission following week. Um they it's the uh water assets
sustainability report. The town council has already approved the wastewater side. Now we have the water side and then after that goes through then we'll to start discussing the water rates. There is a suggested water rate in that report
but we're going to start getting that approved so we can apply for some grants. So and then we'll have the discussion of rates coming up after that. Thank Thank you all for being here tonight. If there's nothing else, uh I move that we adjourn this
meeting. Do I hear a second? All in favor, please stand. Y'all have a good night.