Good afternoon, uh, everyone. Uh, welcome to our regional advisory commission meeting. Um, like to start off with a roll call. >> Matt Elliot, >> present. >> John Draper, >> present. >> T Rancor. >> Pam Brewer, >> Jack
>> here. >> Thank you. Um, I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda and the minutes from the March 3rd meeting. >> Is there a second? Second. Been moved and seconded by Miss
Pam. John moved it. Pam seconded it. If you would pull the board board, please. >> John Draper. >> Yes. >> Jack Conley. >> Yes. >> Matt Elliot. >> Yes. >> Pam. >> Yes. >> Okay. Moving on down. Number four,
presentations. Any presentations? Okay. Any presents? Just presents. I was going to say no presentations, but I do have a um a lengthy comment I would like to make just to kind of get us up
to speed. Um I will tell you that this has been a true group effort. We are waiting for Rachel Osborne, our finance director. She will be coming in shortly with some financials for you to be able to review. Um we don't do anything without our team, especially right now.
Um, I want to say thank you to Brandon because he has definitely been helping hold down the the team in the realm of having a utility director. He has graciously filled in, but it has been um across all areas where we have been wearing that hat. Myself, Leanne,
Jennifer, and even Eva and Tina have jumped in to fill in in some areas. This will be a heavy conversation. I will go ahead and previse that. So today I'm going to be very clear about where the town of Lake Placid stands with our utility system.
This discussion is not about individual properties or isolated projects or hypothetical scenarios. It is about the current condition of our utility system as it stands, our legal obligations and the decisions required
to keep it functioning properly. So, a current system status update. We are approximately 300,000 over budget approximately. Again, Rachel's going to be bringing in some numbers. She's printing them out right now so you can
see them for the WG17 advanced wastewater treatment plant project. We will deplete our capital reserves to meet the existing financial obligations. We currently do not have sufficient infrastructure to add any additional
customers. At the same time, we now have a fully operational advanced wastewater treatment facility that we are not positioned to f fully utilize. This is our current operational reality.
There are consequences of inaction. So if we take no action, we cannot expand our services. We cannot generate new revenue. We cannot transition properties to the new treatment facility at scale. We increase risk of non-compliance with
state requirements. This is not a future issue. This is a present limitation that we are faced with. We talked about the service availability fees. And so for clarification, um Tina's not here. As I said, we've all
been working across many departments. She unfortunately is out ill, but she was doing a deep dive into this so that we could bring back actual numbers for you. There are approximately 76 properties that currently have paid into
the wastewater availability fee. Of those, only 27 are zoned residential. But to hone in on that even more is there's a portion of those that are rental fees. They're rental properties. And what that means is it's tenants who have paid into it. It's not the actual
homeowner who owns the property because the way that our system works is that it is taken care of by the tenant. And so Tina's been going into each one of those properties. She has been evaluating and can tell you whether it's been 6, 10, 12
times that it's been an actual tenant who has paid into that and not the property owner, which those were some of the conversations that we had before was because it's not really on the property owner. Now, there are some who had that's not the case. And so, we want to be able to bring that back to you to
show that to you so you know, okay, well, we had 15 that would truly have paid into that fee. Our current system just doesn't track it um the the data by parcel. It's historical totals that are not readily available right now. So, most
importantly, this fee is defined by ordinance and it's a compliance mechanism that we use. It's not a credit or a repayment toward connection. It applies to properties that were required to connect but they did not. They they chose not to connect. So for ordinance
clarification in 2006 we had low pressure systems. And so there was specific provision within our code that related to this and the ordinance allowed the town to refrain from judicial enforcement of connection under limited conditions. specifically when a
property owner continues to pay the availability fee and maintains a functioning septic system. This is a limited accommodation and it's not a financial benefit. Additionally, it applies only to a defined group of original customers that were prior to
June 1st, 2017. It does not extend to successors or new property owners. And it does not apply to system extensions or new infrastructure areas. Even in those limited cases, property owners are still responsible for the installation costs
and applicable system development charges. There is no provision within our ordinance that supports applying past availability fees as a credit toward future connection costs. Now, that that means it takes us into some ordinance and legal requirements
that we would need to look at. So, our ordinance requires connection within one year of availability, payment of the availability fee if that requirement is not met, and payment of a sewer system development charge for all new connections.
These are separate legal requirements. One addresses the failure to connect, one funds the system capacity, and they are not interchangeable. So with state law, there are non-negotiable requirements that we have to look at. And under Florida law,
including House Bill 1379 and the related statutes, local governments must implement nutrient reduction strategies. Wastewater facilities must meet advanced wastewater treatment standards by 2033, and properties must connect to sewer
when service is available under defined conditions. connection is not optional long-term. It is a state-driven requirement tied to water quality compliance. So, we've talked about the 319 grant. We
still have not received that award le letter letter. However, there are limitations to this grant. It applies only to eligible residential properties. It covers private side work only. It does not fund the infrastructure and it
does not cover the town's connection fee. We currently do not meet the minimum participation threshold required even for full implementation. This grant is a supplemental funding source. It's not a solution to our infrastructure or the financial
challenges that we're facing. We also have the resilient Florida grant which is the vulnerability assessment and this is critical for us to really refocus on this area because the town has secured over 182,000 through the
resilient Florida program to complete a vulnerability assessment. This is a statuto statutoily required effort under section 380.093 093 of the Florida statute and it is now moving into active implementation.
This assessment will identify critical infrastructure assets including utility systems. It will evaluate the flood risk and environmental exposure scenarios through 2050 and 2080. And it determines the system vulnerabilities based on
data-driven analysis. It will also establish prioritized areas for infrastructure investment and inter integrate directly into the local mitigation strategy and future funding eligibility. It's not a planning exercise that can
occur in the background. It requires direct oversight, a lot of coordination and also a defined structure for decision making. At this at this point, the town does not have a centralized framework. We've been trying to
designate that and set it up. We also don't have a designated oversight body managing how these findings will translate into actual actionable plans that we can move forward for utility planning. So that gap must be addressed
because this work will directly determine where the infrastructure in investment is prioritized. It will also determine how funding opportunities are pursued and how the town meets the long-term compliance requirements. So, we are looking for you to help us. You
have a tough job ahead of you. And this next level of work is going to require a lot of focus. It's going to require a lot of hands-on involvement because it's going to determine how we move forward. And right now because of the critical state we're at and Rachel
will talk a little bit more towards the finances so you understand that we are in a true turning point for the town of Lake Placid but not just the town of Lake Placid but also as the regional utility pri provider for the south end of the county. So our funding reality is
our capital fund is being depleted. We do not have a sustainable revenue stream for expansion and we must collect connection related fees to rebuild infrastructure infrastructure funding capacity. Without this expansion will
not happen. The connections will stop and the system sustainability will fail which we're already seeing in many areas because of the aging infrastructure that we already have. So, we're at a critical decision point where we need you to decide and determine if we're going to
enforce our existing ordinances. Are we are we going to align with the state laws? Are we going to establish a sustainable funding structure and how we are going to prioritize infrastructure expansion that's going to be based on
true data and funding alignment? or are we going to continue operating without the structure required to support a functioning utility system? We have a fully constructed advanced wastewater treatment plant and we'll give you some more information on that. Our whole team is here to answer any
questions that you have and I hope you do have some. We have a depleted capital position, limited AB um ability to expand our services. We have state requirements that are not optional that we must meet and active grant obligations that
require coordination and follow through. So, continuing to revisit this over and over again, we're not going to be able to do. We've got to really put um as we called it earlier, we've had several meetings, uncomfortable meetings. We did not want to have to sit here to give all
of the facts, but the rubber has to meet the road and we have a lot of work ahead of us. So at a minimum we need really clear direction on how we move forward on the ordinance enforcement. Are we going to enforce the existing connection
requirements as written or are we not on the funding structure? Are we going to maintain and collect the connection and development fees necessary to rebuild our capital fund or consider alternatives through a formal process? And if we're going into a formal
process, what does that look like? Um, our previous utility directors have said over and over again that if we're depending on just grants, this will not happen. It's not going to happen fast enough. As we see now, we're at that juncture where when I first came on, I
remember Kevin McCarthy and then it passed on to Mr. Bert Warner saying this is not sustainable. And I believe that they truly both as utility directors saw the writing on the wall and that this was not going to be sustainable to continue forward.
Thank you, Brandon, for not abandoning us. Planning and oversight. How will this board participate in guiding the vulnerability assessment outcomes? How can we make them into actionable infrastructure priorities? These are all
policy decisions and they cannot be resolved through a case-bycase scenario. We can't look at just one area. We're going to have to look at this in the holistic picture and what is best for the town of Lake Placid and the regional utility. if we're not prepared to make those
decisions because we know it's t it's not we're giving you some of this information now and you you're not prepared with all of the moving parts. But I do believe that we need to schedule workshops sooner opposed to later because this is a pressing matter
that really needs to be honed in on. Um we have had the meetings in previous where we had the council, we also had the LPA and the regional utility. I don't know that it was honed in as high highly as it should have been that this
is at a critical point, but this is really out of sound the alarm. We need to make some decisions and they can't wait. They should have been made by now. And we're open for questions. Didn't we make a commitment?
>> Put your mic. We need your mic. >> Didn't we make a commitment to our residents and users of the system that they wouldn't be charged anything to connect to the system? Wasn't it an original thought that we used or how we went forward with the premise?
>> That's what I have been told. I will tell you that I'm sorry I I can only speak to what's been said since I've arrived is that was one of the concerns that Mr. McCarthy and also Mr. Warner said was that how were we going to be able to do that because the town was not in a financial position to be able to do
that. So, I've had the conversations with Miss Osborne because when that originally came up, I said to her, "How are we going to pay for this?" Um, I don't have I'm not a utility director. Let me say that. I've learned about utilities in my previous experience. I
will tell you that in Bowling Green that is 3.3 miles, that wouldn't have happened because it it's costly. And I'll let Brandon speak a little bit to that because he does have utilities experience. But to my
understanding is yes, the comment had been made that nobody would have to pay anything. But as far as having a a mechanism in place on how that was going to happen, that was never put into place. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> I did have another I can I can read a question that did come forward that may pose some for you. We were asked if they've already paid, why shouldn't they get credit towards it? So, the ordinance does not provide for that. If the board wishes to change the policy, it would
require a formal ordinance amendment. Um, we also were asked why aren't we using the 319 grant for this? The 319 grant has strict eligibility requirements. It applies only to qualifying residential properties and
does not cover infrastructure or connection fees. It cannot be used in the way that it's being suggested. And then the other big factor is that it requires 33 properties minimum and we have reflected right now at a 20 25 27.
So we don't meet the requirements right now. >> Yes. And we we are still waiting on the letter. So that's that hasn't we haven't even received that yet. >> So did I hear you say the 319 does not cover infrastructure and it does not
cover hookup. So what does it cover? Yeah, but that are close to existing lines. I guess >> the three the 319 allocates funding for installation of the grinder system, the purchase of the grinder system, the
control panel electrical hookup, uh the abandonment of the septic tanks, and any fees associated with any work or materials on private property. Okay. So,
>> so as of right now, you're saying that people who are going to have to connect to this system are going to have to pay approximately, we've heard 13,000, we've heard 15,000 plus this
connection fee of whatever that is, 3500 or whatever. is that >> the total cost has not officially been determined. That's still something we need to address. Um based on estimates
I've looked at, the total cost would probably be between 11 and 12,000. And with grant money, again, these these are decisions that have to be made. The one thing grants won't cover is the 3,200. So that would ultimately be on
the homeowner and then the allocation of the grant is are we would we cover 100% of everything else or do we want to go with a 50/50 meaning 5500 on the homeowner 5500 that this is up for
debate there. Nothing has been decided yet. >> Okay. But other than the the 319 grant which you don't have enough people right now you're saying there are no other grants right right now that are >> you that is correct
>> so it's going to be a long time before >> well >> people get most people get hooked up to I'm just talking about in the town not counting the the region right >> once we actually get rolling and implemented and going on the 319 that will open us up for availability to
apply apply for an additional one, but we have to show that we are putting skin in the game and actually utilizing that money correctly. So in anticipation once we get rolling and if we have enough our
deadline is December 2027 a year and a half but if we have buy in from the public we could get all of these done in less than a year and then at during that time be applying for additional grants.
>> Okay. So you can't apply for any additional grants until that uh >> that >> that money is used or committed >> that that specific one it's it's a nonpoint source grant. >> I am looking for other alternative ways
but that particular one of that funding stream you can only have one open at a time. >> Okay. Now the uh there's a the uh Tamoka Heights treatment plant and the one uh I don't know what it's called mobile home
park right >> those have have to be either upgraded or done away with at at some time. What what is that date? Do you know? So, as it stands right now, the the $40 million
grant, does it cover Simpsonville connection to our system or to Mocha as well? And so, just because of the funding, it it's not there. So, that is something we would have to go back out for a grant to to do those connections.
They kind of work together because the way we we've kind of drawn it up, uh, Simpsonville lift station needs to be like a master lift station to pump to our plant because Tamoka would pump all the way into Simpsonville lift station and there carry over. That way we only
have like one directional bore underneath the the railroad stuff like that, right? >> Um, so as it stands, neither one of those are covered underneath the $40 million grant. And as for the the 319
grant, uh we're racking our minds and the way we thought that the best way for this to take place for the men and women, the families that have been paying that are homeowners and that are um and my homestead exception and all the ones that have been paying in I
think it's about 26, but some of them are rentals. We're trying to figure out them. We would like to through that 319 grant say, "All right, listen. we need to use this grant and since you've been paying all these years into it, uh if we have you're okay, we would like to go
ahead and connect you free of charge because they they've already been paying all these years and as long as their homestead exempted that that would allow us to do that. And I guess we're looking for the okay from y'all to say, well, we
can if we find out if there's 23 24 homes that are homestead exempted and have paying in that y'all give us the go-ahhead that hey listen take that 319 money and let's go ahead and connect these homes to that
apply it to it >> so if they're rented they're not going to be homestead it >> but they've been paying in >> the the >> the renter has >> right does that matter where the money comes from though it's not >> well
it wouldn't necessarily be fair because then it if they had six tenants then the tenants actually paid into it. It wasn't the homeowner. >> Okay. >> So, we're trying to apply it to the actual homeowners who have lived there who have paid into it.
>> Okay. >> Y'all have the final say so on how to >> if y'all want these holes to be hooked up without impact fees. We can certainly do that. But that's up to y'all. But that's also to those $3,200 I think for
the impact fees. uh the hookup fees. Uh that's where it helps us in our overall budget and and wastewater and all. And if we keep waving those fees, then that's kind of like B in our hands. But I do understand that they've been paying
for numerous years. And so that decision is in y'all's lap on how y'all want to proceed with that. But we we that the 319 grant is uh I would like to see as many homes, especially as a wastewater operator. I
want everybody hooked up to it, but it's a process. >> Even if the landlord was paying the rent, they still wouldn't be homesteaded. So, >> correct. >> Catch them there. And so one of the big things to look at is when in talking with Rachel is that
when we do this, we wave one of the only mechanisms we have to rebuild our capital fund. So that's every time we say we're going to wave, we're going to wave. That's part of the reason why we're here and depleting our our funds now is because we've been basically giving everything away for free. We keep
waving it. >> Okay, >> Rachel, am I saying that correct? I guess guess my point I don't I don't see the difference in the tenant paying or the landlord paying it. Um if I'm your landlord, I'm gonna say, "Okay, you're you're going to pay me an extra $100 a month and I'll pay the water bill." You
know what I mean? It's just >> that that's the point where it goes to y'all, right? >> If y'all want to wave that, then that's up to y'all. uh because we have the grant and I I like spending those grants and and getting every bit that we can
because that's more connections and that's more revenue. The thing is when we do these connections, uh they've already been paying. So, it's pretty much the same amount of money. We're just we're collecting their sewer at that time.
>> And where we need as a town, we need to get as many people hooked up as possible. like Simpsonville. That would be >> And you're talking about 20ome, right? Out of the 70, is that right? You said >> out of the 319. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So 50 aren't paying anything.
>> Say that again. >> 50 people aren't paying or 50 partials aren't paying. >> Um those are >> commercial residents. >> There's 76 um properties. Only 27 are zon residential. The rest are commercial properties.
>> Okay. So the 319 would only be applicable to the 27. >> Correct. >> Okay. So what about the 76? I guess your question was about enforcing the hookup. If that's what our code says, I don't know why we're not >> making them hook up. >> That's one of the questions.
>> If there's a need there, it's a vacant lot. I get it, but maybe they need to pay something, but >> we would like to connect them to. And for Simpsonville, just for clarification, we did apply for appropriations, but we we're waiting still for a response on that. So, that
could potentially come. It's just we don't have that secured at this time, but we did apply for that. >> Okay. on on the Simpsonville and and uh what is the uh isn't there a state mandate that they have to either
modernize their plant or >> connect into ours by some date or I mean >> yes sir they're under a consent order uh through the state and either they could comply with the state which is going to cost them a lot of money or pretty much turn it over to us and we have to get a
a lift station and pump it over. It's not much flow. Uh it's it's very little. I went there, visited and talked with the people there, but it's it's not much flow, but it is revenue coming into the town. >> Yeah. Okay. My my question is what is
the date that they have to do either A or B by? >> Yeah. Right at three years. >> Three years approximately from now. Okay. So those as far as connecting new areas of the
town, let's say, or the or the region, other than the the 319, which is individual houses, those two areas, Simpsonville and Tamoka Heights are the top priorities,
>> but we can't use the 319. >> No, that's what I'm saying. I understand that you can't use that. But other than that, as far as where we get money, whether it's through increasing fees even higher or or some other grants that come along, those two would be the first uh
>> correct >> areas to be done. >> And to answer your question about the TOMO, um as soon as our permit is back up for review, we just reviewed and um set up our permit. Once that permit is completed, then we will definitely need
to decommission that plant and have it running to our north plant. >> Yeah. Okay. And that's both of those are approximately three three years from now, right? >> So So if all these 76 parcels were online and paying today, would that put
us back in the black? >> No. >> No. >> So this is just a little band-aid, right? >> It is. >> Okay. they they would if they use because we go off their their water usage and so that's how it would be calculated. So,
uh right now it's a base rate that we're charged. So, yes, it should increase. >> Uh you know, >> it's going to take us a couple years, Matt, before we'll actually see >> right >> a return on our investment. >> Yes. >> Pam's been standing want to speak, I
think. So, >> okay. Join us. Pam, >> give her the floor. >> Pam Fendress 12373 Lost Lake Drive. Just to for some clarification, originally when House Bill 1379 came out, the
council at that time and this committee was whoever's hooking up, it's their problem. They're going to pay the 156,000. Then a council election happened and that's when the chambers were packed and then it went to nobody's paying for
anything. The town's paying 100%. So that's like the last word that I heard is that the council doesn't want people that hook up or the subject to sewer because you got the 40 million um to pay anything. Financially, realistically,
that's not going to work. They're having to do with state law. That's the whole thing. This wasn't the town uh trying to make money or generate revenue. This was state law pushed down. And so they needed customers. What has happened in the past, you had Joey Barber, then you
had Kevin, then you had Bert Warner repeatedly come up here to y'all and to council explaining their timelines, hard dates, money. You did the diamond maps. You did the joint meetings. You did all these different things. And I'm not
trying to say anything about Bert Harris, but you had utility directors, giving presentation, making recommendations. Bert Harris would be at the mic for 60 minutes, 90 minutes. He would counteract that. And now we've just pushed it down the road. Down the
road. You can't push it any further. And you don't have any money. That's the whole thing. One thing if you'all had a big pot of money and it's just kind of like, yeah, we want to give it away or no, we don't. You don't have that money. and you're not I don't see any way for you to get that money. Bert's way of thinking was we're going to just do
grants. As we get a new grant, we'll do another hundred houses. If it takes us 50 years, it takes 50 years. No problem. I've repeatedly come up here and said, you're going to be sitting on a million gallons a day wastewater treatment plant come I was used to say January 2026. Who
are your customers? And it's great for Tamoka. Tammoka can never be annexed in. >> Um I mean there's just a little caveats to all these things. It was my understanding to decommission to Mocha and do their wastewater treatment plant, you needed $4 million that you don't
have. So, not only I mean that's four million then I don't I don't think you have the money for the forest main from Tamoka to the new wastewater treatment plan that I mean so it's easy to say our priorities are Tamoka. You got eight
million dollars. I mean the Simpson Yeah. Simpson bill. It is under consent order. Look at the demographics there. Are you going to annex? I'm I know I'm talking too much, but when you look at the big picture, are you going to annex them in? And what are the costs
associated? Brandon, you don't care. All you need is utility customers. You need water, sewer, utility customers. And that's that's great for you. But when it comes to the council or something, they got to think bigger picture also. But we're in the situation because we keep
on pushing it off. Those that Florida rural water association did a great reports water and sewer gave the priority list. We don't look at that. We did it. We reviewed at that one meeting. Council reviewed one of them at 11:30
p.m. They didn't review it. They approved it and moved on. So we I we need stability here at the utility. I I appreciate the staff that's here. I'm glad to see Lee and you're here. I know you've been sick and Jennifer, I was kind of worried. I'm like, is she gone?
But, you know, I didn't know. And Brandon, I know you're like, you're helping out and try to see it through. And so, it has been a team effort and people are pitching in in different places, but somehow we got to face hard facts, hard decisions. And I know you're saying they can decide, but I would
think council would have to give the blessing on the 319. Absolutely. Um, and and just y'all can decide things, but just because you decide one way, doesn't mean the council does it. You know, just somebody needs to come back and tell y'all, yeah, you just said yes, council
said no, so the answer is no because they trump y'all. >> Um, but anyway, I'm glad you're talking about it, but there's there's a lot it's it's involved. >> Pam, we just make res recommendations to council.
>> Correct. But but some because there's a $2.5 million grant you got and with that that's for the lift station or the generators and stuff. Then in January it was announced you got a $7 million grant. So I know but that's what was announced. I'm not saying you got it but
this gets out into the public. The public thinks you got this money and that money. And if you have a community member who is well respected and in authority telling people that versus what the books say, the financial, this has nothing to do with personality
conflict or this one against this. These are the facts. You guys are in serious problem. I mean, and and so apply for more grants, but you're the the clock is ticking. You've run out of time. Yes, we have. And and thank you, Pam.
>> Yes. you know, we appreciate that because she has been around and has a lot of the historical knowledge and but even to the the 7 million she referenced, it's it's dwindled down now and so it's actually at a 2.5 D. So, and and again, we don't have that yet. That
is still something that we don't have the letter even saying that we've been awarded it yet. So, the conversations are out there, but having the actual money in the bank with the award letter, we haven't received any of that yet. specifically for the 2.5 the stag grant.
I was on the phone with D yesterday inquiring and the fund federal funds have not been allocated to D Florida D at this juncture. So, we're still waiting for the federal to release
it to state level for us to then ask. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, while we're talking about money for projects that we don't or projects that we have that we don't have money for, what about the the water and sewer services for the police station?
Do we have that money? Yes, that that was >> that was likeund they said 192,000 I think they took out of the >> that was included with the project. So all that is taken care of. >> I'm sorry I couldn't >> that was included with the project. All of that is included.
>> Okay. So we do have that money. Okay. >> Did you say this vulnerability assessment can't be done or we can't receive money from that until the 319 money is spent? You didn't say that. No. >> No. No. >> Okay. You said we need to have that done. The v
yeah the vulnerable assessment >> is completely separate but it is a mandated from Florida that we must put together >> program >> right so that will help us with budgeting in the future it will help us with seeking grants um so but it's going
to h need a team with oversight there's uh multiple components in order to put it together but that is about we are about to get our uh letter uh probably within the next couple weeks. >> Okay. >> So, wanted to give you guys a heads up
on that so we can start brainstorming, putting teams together. >> Okay. Now, suppose um the approximate 11 or 11,000 or 12,000
is correct for for hooking up individual uh you know customers. Obviously 90% of the people in this area can't put out $11,000 or $12,000. Does the city
have the capacity to sell bonds or whatever they need to do so that they can spread that the the people's uh costs over I don't know 10 years or whatever. We was talking about different ways that the um the customers or the citizen can
um pay back that fee. One be pay it on a monthly charge for three years, five years, whatever is decided. Um but there's no bond that can be sold. Now, with the system development charged, which is really important because right
now we have the $40 million grant. There's we ramping up that project and we got um word that is going to be 383,000 over. So, we looking at the capital improvement account to make up the
difference for that. So, what makes up the capital improvement account is the system development fees. So it's like 350,000 in there to take care of the 363,000. So it's it's going to be depleted. So if those funds system development charges not charged to put
back into that account, then if any emergencies or any major breaks, then nothing can get repaired. So that's what system development charges do. It puts back into the infrastructure for making sure that you're upkeeping and you're replacing when it need to be be
replaced. And if I could add >> a little Oh, go ahead. >> A little bit. During my research putting together the septic to sewer program, um there are multiple grants, uh ship grants, community block grants that are
specifically designated for fixed income, certain age. There's tiered requirements, but some of these grants um allocate up to $40,000 to a homeowner. Uh and and number one is
roof, number two is subject to sewer. And as long as they sign a commitment that they will maintain that property for 10 years and they are currently homesteaded, it's a forgiven loan. They don't make a payment on it. So those are
out there and that was part of what I would be doing as people want would be helping them get on the internet, fill out the applications for them, seeing what they were eligible to to get. that there are so many grants for individuals
versus municipalities >> and the individuals have to apply for it themselves or >> Yes, they would. >> But the the city would help them or give them the instructions of how to do it or or whatnot, right? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Now, what about uh you said
something about some of those grants. I I I think I heard if if you live there for 10 years or something like that, the the grant would be forgiven or the fee would be What happens? Like I'm 81 years old, right? We got a lot of old people
in the town here, right? I don't think I'm going to be around in 10 years, you know? Maybe maybe five. >> I'm sorry. What was that? >> I said, "Yes, you will." >> No. Well, but I'm wondering about what happens to let's say if they're not, you know, whatever they live there for eight
years or whatever and then they uh their home is uh it goes to their kids or whatnot. So that is an absolutely wonderful question. Um what happens now
if the 10 years is not fulfilled depending on who the property's name then whoever assumes that property then would be responsible for paying that loan >> and okay now and the
the present homeowner they're are they paying all that loan during the 10 years? >> No. >> Okay. So, so then the the child, if that's who it went to, will re be responsible for the full amount of the loan, not not only two ten of it if the
if the original owner lived there eight years or something like that. >> Yes. And that's one scenario on one different grant, but there are multiple different ones and they all act in a different way. I was just kind of trying to give an example, but that's basically
um the majority of it is is it's a loan forgiveness. You don't make a payment on it, but you Yes. And they do realize that people may not be around that long. Um so if this property does get sold, then
whoever purchased it, that bill or loan would be attached to that. >> Okay. But if the if the present homeowner had already been paying on it for eight years. >> Well, they they're not
>> Oh, they're not paying. Okay. Okay. >> They don't make a monthly payment. Okay. That's what All right. >> All right. style >> on that. Correct. That's a shift because I mean I think we've got an an awful lot of residents in in this area that
probably can't afford to pay anything more. You know, they're lucky if they're paying their water and sewer bill and and all their, you know, food and all their regular expenses. >> Oh, absolutely. and and I did I spent a lot of time researching uh all the
grants that could help, you know, because I I do realize I have family in that same situation and single moms and so I there are a lot out there. Um and that would be part of our role would be
to assist them in any way we could to make alleviate the payment. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. So then ba basically what I'm hearing I guess is that the uh what what
you want to do is try and connect as many new customers as possible as cheaply as possible. In other words, not having to run a line all the way over to Placid Lakes or something like
that. Even though if you got the line over there, there's a lot of people relatively close together. But what but getting the line there would cost a lot of money. So So you're kind of to me you're you're kind of the my understanding of when I when I read the
application for the grant was that it was to protect the lakes, right? But it's not really that. It's it's to get as much revenue as possible for our new treatment plant and eventually somewhere's down the line protect the
lakes. Well, DP wants to see nutrient reduction on the lakes and so they are more inclined and are would be happier for us to do these system installations on lake
property or any property within a half mile is their top tier of what they would expect. But all of Lake Placid, every bit of it falls within the Okachobee BAP. So every every property is eligible for it.
>> Okay. So they consider anything within a half a mile of of any lake as helping uh helping lakes. Okay. >> Yes, that would be like tier one, but all of Lake Placid is included. >> And considering this 319, if we did have
infrastructure along the lake, then those probably would be our homes that we would hit first. But unfortunately, we don't have that infrastructure. So, we have to do it where we actually have. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> What's the status of the um master utility plan contract? >> So, there you're talking about the one with Mr. Fred Blower. And so, we um I have conversation with him this week. We're scheduled to talk and schedule for when we're going to set that up for the master utilities plan. So, that'll
that'll get get started. they'll be able to have some conversations with all of you and then also with council as well, but that is separate from the other utility. >> Okay. >> But they will be two components that will be able to help guide some of your decisions, be able to help you with some
feedback and things of that nature. They just finished school, so he just finished with school. They're finishing out school, so that should work. And um and Brandon does have ideas where he can um discuss more one-on-one with you on some other specific areas where we would
call it some lowhanging fruit that we believe if we invest in certain areas that we could potentially go ahead and get some um some clients on the system sooner opposed to later. Um, we don't want to cause alarm into the public with saying those all out right now, but
again, one-on-one, you could have some conversations to to talk about some options that we could potentially bring forward that would that would help us out. And they've been working a lot, 72 hours, >> something like that.
>> Yeah. A week. And we do have the vacancy obviously. We we're working without a utilities director right now. We're also working without a project manager, but due to the financial situation we're in right now. Um some of the most recent conversations as of late last week when
the finances were really coming in because what's happening is now we have things that are closing out. So we're getting the the pay app requests are coming in. They're filtering in a lot more quicker and things of that nature. Rachel has been comparing towards what Penoni has also comparing to what our
books reflect and trying to make sure that everything aligns. Um we believe right now this is working even though it's stretching all of us really thin. But um instead of bringing on that the other two positions right now until we can have more conversation with the mayor and find out what direction she
has, we've kind of just let it settle for right now because we don't have that that extra expense. We're just carrying it until we can see and re-evaluate. >> I remember when we voted that, you know, we wanted no overs
on this and there was supposed to be somebody who was watching that. What happened? They've left. As Pam as Pam said, you have had a repeat of people who have filtered through. So,
you had Joe Barber, you had Kevin McCarthy, you had Bert Warner. We um we also had a we had two individuals who were hired to assist with this. When I came on board, they were here. You probably remember the name of Dennis and
Sadi. And so, when Mr. McCarthy left, his last day was on a Friday and immediately the following Monday, um Sadi and Dennis also pul um turned in their resignation and they left two weeks later. So, we have been playing catch-up ever since. Um, and for about a
year because, uh, Mr. McCarthy was trying to manage and do the project management of it, he was the only one who was handling that and Rachel was not involved. in the interim we've been reconciling and making sure that we tracking the cost but then with change orders and
everything else happened costs going up um then we didn't have anybody in the field for project management we didn't have anybody out there on the ground so Penoni got involved >> um so the cost just went up >> we uh we we talked about this a while
ago Uh, I mentioned it to the to the mayor and whatnot that you should have a project manager, right? Uh, I worked for Hill International, which is a very big project management and construction
claims resolution company, one of the biggest in the world, right? And worked on a lot of projects. Before that, I was uh worked for a consulting engineer, right? I also worked later on for the
city of Hollywood. Right? So, I've seen how these projects work from all sides, from the engineers point or the architect's point, from the uh owner's standpoint, you know, and when you don't have a
project engineer that is working for the cl is hired by the client, working for the client, you're going to get into trouble. I guarantee it. If you hire, if you have let the design engineer
supply or be the the project manager, right? He's supposed to be looking out for the owner first, but really he's looking out for his own company first and the owner second and of course the contractor
last. You know, it's it's not a good way of doing things. because the state mandated us to do this. Are they going to help us out now that we're in trouble? Have we gone to them? You know, we're almost hatinand. I
I hear these ideas to make money, but when's it going to come in? When did the bills do all that? Who's who's going to coordinate that and show us the money flow versus the bills so the town doesn't go into red? And who's going to handle talking to the the residents of
our town and telling them you're going to pay? You know, I mean, that's that's a tough feat. >> Those are all valid questions. And I will tell you that in what we have seen and evaluated in other communities. They
started the conversations well back years ago as soon as it came out. So in reality, when we had the seat change over and we went through the whole septic to sewer and the conversions, the conversations and PR should have really
began then. Um, we're way behind and the state has been giving, which is the reason why we have the $40 million grant and some of the other mechanisms in place, but they leave that up to us. That's where you all come into play. And then also the council. Now, based off of
the council's direction, we can definitely do there. They do videos. They do a lot of educating, but that was part of the program that Jennifer had presented at the last meeting. That was part of why we want to put that into place because that will allow us to go ahead and start having the education
with the residents, not just the residents, but also with the you the regional um utilities so that we can educate them on the reason why this is important and then also start exploring the options. Um, I use Okachobee as an example because my sister felt it
firsthand. They literally had less than three weeks and they weren't they were not given an option. They were told this is how it's happening and this is how we're doing it because they realized that they were behind the eightball as well and they had missed the opportunity to apply for grants and other
appropriations, but they they had to move forward. And so the the utility provider over there rolled it out. My sister literally makes payments on her utility bill right now to pay for it. And she was a single mother at the time when they rolled it out. So other communities are seeing it. They're
experiencing it. But they also realize that the burden can't fall just on the municipality because you will end up in the situation we're currently in. We have exhausted our funds. We do not have the ability to be able to give anything away for free as much as we we would
really like to do that. But we have to be um fiscally good stewards with how we're going to move this forward. We have a lot of different options that we have seen in other communities that we can look at to see what's going to work. And it won't be a one-sizefits-all because every community is very unique
and different. >> Can you can you tell us a few of those those options that we've gotten? Um there were some lowinterest loans that were presented that we've heard about. Um again like Jennifer said they will take and spread it out. You could do it across three to five years. I mean there
are different options that are available. >> You want to say >> but most of those options would come out of the the users's pocket. Right. That's that's where we're getting our funding. Not looking at the government to come
along and bail us out. Correct. And that is one of the things that council and this body would have to agree upon as well is is the town going to be willing to basically hold that
finance loan and bill add the line item onto the utility bill. So they'd have their weight water, waste water, and then the monthly fee um for the installation of the grinder system.
So that's one option if they don't have the money up front. And then there are the individual grants as well. Never none of that is ever a guarantee. But these these are the questions that we have to really address and very very
>> serious. Have have you at least looked at, you know, what it might take? You know, how much we'd have to increase or what we do? I mean, we've got a time lag before we can get the system out for. >> Didn't we know this back in November when we made the recommendation? We knew
going it was going to be a half a million if we in debt by the end of the year. If we didn't do this, I remember Jack blocked the motion or whatever and we went the other way knowing this was going to happen. So, it's not a surprise to me if I'm on the right page.
>> Correct. >> Yes. >> So, it all goes back to we should have gone higher back in October for the November increase. Is that correct? Okay. Just >> I've been trying to keep my mouth shut because it's you're you're the board.
But um speaking from the council side, it was implied promised that people would not have to pay anything. >> And now to come around and say you're going to well you can get a loan, baby. That's not right. And when it was
implied and it was the prior council, the current council can't do it. >> I understand. Councilwoman Ibrahart, I think what the big concern is is that we didn't really hone in on looking at the
financials and what the true capacity of us being able to commit to. Um, again, I was not here and I passed no judgment because I cannot imagine the decisions that a council has to make. But immediately on my second Monday, Rachel
can attest to this with coming on board. I sat in her office and I said, "What is happening? What is going on?" Because there's no way we can do this just off of my quick glance of looking at the financials and knowing the position we
were in. And she explained to me then at that time that she had not been involved in those conversations. she had not been brought forward in being asked about what the financial situation was and whether we could do
that or not. So I have to say that it's that's why it's so important that we have everybody with when we talk about transparency. We've got to be fully committed to looking at what we really have before we commit to saying what
we're going to do because right now we put the financials before you. You will see that Rachel you put your snapshot and penonis in there by chance or is it just the one just penonis so you'll see the snapshot and then what we really are looking at they don't they don't jive
and so we we don't have the money we are going to go over and then to commit to be able to do this free are we how are we going to do that because we also have other other things that we're looking at that you all will
need to really get involved in Um, one of them is, you know, we have the camp in conference, so where you could potentially try to look at some loans and things of that nature. You can only have so many loans. So, we're committed now to camp and conference. And then
there's also a pioneering agreement. So, there are a lot of moving parts in our utilities area that we have committed things that um we're not saying it's a bad thing because we need this, but um
it's been a double-edged sword because now we um we are losing and so we've got to find a way to come forward. Now, Brandon is always the optimistic one in the room. >> You just say, what did you say? Wasn't nice. I didn't hear that. You said
something wasn't nice. >> What wasn't nice? >> Well, for several years, the prior council, the current council, when all this talk was about the sewers going in and it was implied that nobody would ever have to pay
anything to hook up. >> And now to resend that and say, "Oh, sorry. We're wrong." It just just drives me crazy. real real quick. Um, it shows about $360,000
364,000. And when you look at this, there was a few things that we missed. Um, we didn't miss, it was unforeseen. The current wastewater plant, the north wastewater plant, while it is in operation, you
can't see the flaws that's underneath the water. So when we started breaking everything down to convert it to our digtor and our chlorine contact uh container, we found that the seals are
completely rotted. And so we can't have our sludge and our finished water mixing. So we had to go out and get that fixed. And so we cut that cost down. I think the original price was over $200,000. We got it down to where all
the interior seals and for the chlorine basins were $85,000. That's as low as they could they could possibly go. And that that guarantees the safety of our our finished water because we are trying to do nutrient removal. This plant is
designed to do nutrient removal for the future. And uh it's it's going to be great. I'm already we're already collecting samples and this is without our filters and our our samples are doing very well and so uh so the plant's
doing good but then we also had uh Penoni messed up on one of the issues on their plant we have five ponds percolation ponds they're called ribs and when I was going over the the plans I said I only see discharge pipe going
to four of them and they're like no there's five and come to find out they they missed one of them and so that's where the 475 five comes from that's we have to have that other pond because it's a part of our permit for discharge
and so it that is 475 that we had that was unforeseen and padoni missed that but moving forward I think one quote from uh Paul and Kent was $77,000 I got a quote from KDL and it was uh 475
and so we went the lowest that we possibly could And so with that, I mean, yeah, we went over there is it's over budget and and uh I don't like it. I I I count my beans, but it's just one of
those things like it's not like somebody wasn't really watching and paying attention. >> Please don't misunderstand me. I'm I'm not talking about the going over the budget or the construction. I'm just talking about the overall what was
presented to the people as far as hookups. So, I'm not I'm not yelling I'm not yelling at you for going over this totally separate thing in my head is that we've got to find a way to live up to the promises.
>> Well, I I was going to get there. Uh but uh we we once this is done. Yes, we went over. It looks 300 almost $370,000. And yes, that that that really kicks us in the black. I mean, it it gets us down
there. But we have brand new infrastructure, brand new lift stations, brand new wastewater plant. And yes, even if we do could connect these 26 homes, that money is still going to be the same. It's a pretty much a wash. They got a new subject at Dreamfield
where we are going to have to look in the future is grants as well because if we're looking to keep promises like that uh that's a tough promise to give a whole community and I I I mean I come
from a very poor family for somebody in my family to say I got to pay 12,000 for a sewer to septic that would just put them under. But we as a town moving forward, like Miss Jennifer, she's going to have to go and start looking for grants. But it's not just the the septic
sewer grants. We've got to apply for pipe work because we got the trunk lines in. Now we just need the fingers to hit the the roads to put the the lines in front of the houses. So, we're still a long ways off, but uh but we're just not
there yet. It's going to take time. Okay. The uh the $47,500 you said for the additional uh discharge line, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Well, that's where a an outside project
manager would have come in, right? They may have spotted that, right? Now, the design engineer has errors and omissions insurance, right? That's certainly an error and omission, right? We shouldn't have to pay for that, right? If we do
have to pay anything for it, it should be less than the the 47,500 because they they've already got us over a barrel now. We have to have it, right? If it had been part of the bid work, who
knows? It might have been $42,000 or something like that. It would have been something less probably. >> Not disagreeing with you at all with that. I I I believe that we should have had a project manager from start to finish, but we didn't. And I don't like
to make big me give me a big head or anything like that, but I was the one that found that when I started sitting down at the table looking over the plans and it just uh that's when yeah, I was the project manager at the time. I came
in November, I think it was November, and that's when we found like, hey, we have issues here and uh and there's some valves that we shouldn't have used in in wastewater that is meant for water reuse. And I I've I went and I
approached the directors at the time and said, "Hey, listen. We're using different kind of valves, uh, just regular gate valves." I said, "We we should be using plug valves because of the corrosiveness of waste water. You're not going to be able to open some of
these valves." And uh all I got, and I'm just being honest with you, was uh we'll deal with it when uh uh the the project's over. I'm like, well, these valves are 28 feet in the ground now. Now is the time. So having a project manager 100% agreed, but
>> we can't look at the the past. We got to >> exact >> move forward, >> right? But we we have other projects that are going to be going on in the city and the mayor has absolutely said there will not be a project manager. They're not nearly as big as this
project, but he's he's dead wrong in his thinking on that. >> In in what form? I'm sorry. >> The pickle ball courts. I say I say it's a different project, you know, but it's a it's a project that has several
different contractors involved, right? It has a I think it's Nibby Nibby is it that actually Nidi that actually builds at the pickle ball court. You're going to have an earthwork contractor. You're going to have an electrical contractor.
You know, maybe you're going to have a landscape contractor. There's some other subs that will be in there, right? Somebody has to be in charge. So, is the fee $3,200 to hook up? Is that in the code somewhere >> for a 3/4 inch meter there?
>> 3/4 >> in code. There is a specified it's based on the size of the meter. Everybody is throwing around the 3,200 amount because that is a normal standard for a home is a 3/4 in meter.
>> Okay. Okay. And the system development fee 3500 or 8,000 >> 32 32 is the system development charge for a wastewater for a 3/4 inch meter.
>> Do what? >> Pam. >> No. >> No. >> So you would have Okay, I understand what you're Okay. So you're going to have the cost of the unit, the hookup, all of that information, like that part.
You're going to have the construction part, which also includes the cost of the meter. Then you have that separate system development charge of 3,200 based on that 3/4 inch meter. So there's two separate pieces.
>> Okay. So we got 3200. What's that other? >> This one over here. Yeah, >> that's the cost of your the grinder station, the cost of the panel, the electrical, the abandonment of the septic tank. >> And what is that number though?
>> What did we figure? >> Based on the current bids that I have, the the installation and the abandonment is approximately $8,500. >> 8,500. Okay. So just >> that includes the 3200 or 3200's on top.
>> No, the 3200 is not included in that. >> Not included. Okay. >> Yes. So that's where I got you know between 11 and 12. >> Gotcha. >> Once you add that in there. >> So what's the total for the homeowner? >> 117 >> approximately >> approximately about 113 and things may
fluctuate again if prices on electrical wire go up. So because yeah once we get a final bid in then we'll know an exact and I've been working a lot with
Martin County and several other counties on their best practices and also with the grant. So we're expected with the 319 to do 33 homes. They would love for us to do more.
So, and we could keep applying. So, if we had the availability, you know, if if it was a 50/50 split, say, so the grant covered 5500 and the homeowner covered 5,500, that
would give us the availability to connect 60 homes onto our system and to abandon those septic tanks. And so, those are just some of the things we have to look at. I know in the past, >> but do we have 60 spots to hook up
>> currently? No. >> Right. Okay. >> Um but we do have a couple of areas that we can certainly focus on. It's a short run to connect to a main. >> Okay. >> Um and and depending on which one that
there's like a one area with like 40 homes, one area with 35. So we we kind of got a little plan going there. But but you're looking for recommendation for these 27 homes, correct? Is that right? As to what to do
basically whether to pay half or all of it or none of it or whatever, right? >> That's correct. >> And out of that um is it the 1379 or the 319? There's money in there, you're saying, right? >> Yeah, the 319 has the money there that
we could use to hook up. And the good thing about that is dependent on gravity, we could either run gravity or uh grinder stations, the pump e ones. >> And these 27 people get dibs on it because they're there already. They're on the line or because they've been paying.
>> They've been paying. >> Okay. Has anybody else been paying that's not necessarily on the line? >> Does that make sense? >> No. Because if they would have been on a line, they would have been charged that availability fee. >> Okay. because there's infrastructure in front of the house.
>> Okay. So 27 times 12,324,000 would fix this problem, >> right? >> Correct. And get them doing it. Okay. Is there that much in that grant money? >> I'm just trying to flesh this thing out. >> It's like a clear mic. >> 495. And and right now like uh I know I
was just doing some simple math but the E1s by themselves the box check valves and all is uh 3500. Then we have the 3,200 for the uh connection fee. So you got 3,700. Now where you can save is
when you go out to bid uh on the electrical because not you may not have to >> Well, that's where I got the 12,000 from from what she just told me. So, we're looking at at 67 just by the connection fee and the E1. And so, abandoning the E1 and or sorry, the drain field and
running the power, there could be some cost savings. Uh, each each resident might be a little bit different because of distance of power. They might have to run it. >> So, but overall cost of about 11,000 12,000. >> Okay. >> Is a good rough estimate. I just wanted
to give you a breakdown of the public. >> No, sure. Well, that's what I was trying to pencil out here. I came with 117, but we said 12. So, >> yeah, approximately 12 to be fair. And then one more thing to consider is the distance of the where the grinder
station's going to go to the road. >> The average home is probably between 60 and 80 ft, but we do have some that are right well over a thousand. So, >> right. >> But if we're going to enforce it, we have to enforce it and they need a estimated cost. So now you need to
decide I think is how much of that 12,000 is the city going to bear. Correct. And that's what we're looking for recommendation for. >> Four of >> Y. Is that going too fast or?
>> Well, it's whether or not we wave the system development fee for those 27 homes because that grant does not pay that. So if we are to provide the grinder system or the gravity connection, >> we have to wave that 3,200 connection
fees. So we're not getting any income for future infrastructure by doing that. >> We're talking 27 homes though, right? >> Just for the 27 homes. 319 will cover everything except the 3200
on those 26 27 homes. >> Okay. You're one recommendation to cover everything except the 3200. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Including the 3200. >> Including the So they're going to cover it. Whatever it cost will cover 200
yards or two feet. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I must pay. So, what you're looking for is >> I'm looking for what it's going to cost. I pulled out my checkbook. What would that check be for? >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Total, >> right?
>> Yep. turnkey installation, but you have the option to say that you want the 27 homes for us to wave the connection fee. >> Correct? >> Yes, you have that option. Yes. >> Okay. >> Or you have the second option that they
would be getting all of their installation turnkey free essentially and then their only out of pocket would be that 3,200. So you have those two different options. >> Either the city pay all of it or all but
3200, >> right? And then that 3,200 could be divided in their bill. >> Correct. >> Then what we do with the 3200, that's another pot of money we do something else with. Right. >> Infrastructure to build in for more of
these kinds of grants. Correct. >> I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to get the >> the options that you're looking for. >> Yeah. Now in your calculations there may be a cheaper way rather than the E1. Uh was it the last meeting I
passed out um step the step system where they you can actually keep your tank and it's more uh the maintenance is better on it because you're not grinding solids. Remember the solids go into your old tank and you're just pumping the
clear effluent. So maybe we can cut down on the cost if the step system is an option. >> I mean >> I do know that I've done that before. I worked for a company here, the Simol
tribe. We did the same thing. We were installing E1s and then we come to realize like they have the same pump. They have the same motor and and so uh what we did was brought them from E1s to AMGPS. Same thing pretty much. It sits
right inside of a septic tank and you go out right where the drain field is. And so you you put it all in your not your gray water, but where all your solids are and it eats all your solids and it sends it right out. I'm in favor of that. I might get in trouble for saying
this, but I'm in favor of that just simply because I'm probably going to get in trouble, but it's all right. Uh because these E1 tanks are they hold 100 100 gallons and not everybody has generators at their homes and speaking
from experience. Uh we would install those and then we would have complaints about uh backups. Well, we had to go to each one of those homes and install popup cleanouts so it would go on the ground before it would go into the
resident's home. And so that's something we talked with Jennifer about installing that. What I like about the AMGPS is your septic tank, as long as uh the septic service comes and investigates and looks at it, make sure, hey, this is
a solid tank, drop an AMGP in there, and yes, there is a cost savings and you get instead of 100 gallons, you get 800 gallons, >> right? So you have a window because the thing about water and waste water is >> we're governed by the state to have two
weeks worth of fuel on site to maintain if we have loss of power. So people if they have water there's they're going to be still flushing their toilets even if they don't have power. So they're I mean they're still going to use the restroom and that water is just going to build up
and uh but I'll leave it there. So, do you have to cap it at the drain fill or can you just put a valve there? In this case, we do have no power for two months. Can you open the valve and go back to your >> That's That's the problem because I talked with Mr. Kevin before I was even
employed. He was interviewing me at the time. He was telling me that they were installing them and I told him I said I would use AMGPS, drop them in there, run it out the back and leave the drain field. You could do risers on septic tanks and do it like that and have your
drain field as a backup >> uh in case you do lose water, you do lose power, you it would still go right out everything. The problem is the reason why we're doing BMAP is to do the nutrient reduction. >> Sure.
>> So they they want all that solids to go to the plant. >> I get it. If it's that much of emergency, a week of solids isn't going to >> Yeah, we got bigger issues, >> right? >> I did ask the question only um to
Penoni. Again, I am not a utilities director, so I'm learning this information as we go along. Um Brandon was on the response from Penoni. He gave some history. I went back through some of the um Eva was able to get me minutes
and all of the history and to be able to review it. And so he said that my my summary of the um recollection of events was accurate related to the step system. What he said um and again Brandon is a utilities director and he can answer the
other questions. I'm just giving it to you based off of some of his feedback is that um it would still require collecting the wastewater from res residences and transmitting to the wastewater treatment facility for treatment. He said comparing a step system used at a residence to a grinder
pump system. The step system would be more expensive both installation long-term maintenance and would require more maintenance including pumping of solids periodically like standard septic tank systems. And I can email this all out too, but um
he said the new wastewater treatment facility includes a sledge dewatering system for centralized solids handling using step systems would essentially partially decentralize solids handling which would be more costly. He said that this came up in 2223 when decisions were
being made by Joe Barber, the town engineer, and Kevin McCarthy as a utilities director regarding the direction to go with septic to sewer areas, an enhanced type of step system. and he references the orenino o renco and that that was analyzed and
considered. The decision ultimately made in around February 2023 by Joe Barber was to scrap the oreno system idea and instead use the grinder pump systems the low pressure using E1 pumps which I would say would have been the time that we should have been doing really good PR
and having the conversations then about what this was going to be or how we were going to approach it. Um, the low pressure collection system would be no different using a step system compared to a grinder pump system. While a step system would provide some nutrient
removal, primarily Nitrogen, this could actually be a disadvantage to the operation of the new wastewater treatment facility as it was designed to treat full strength wastewater. In his opinion, um, the bottom line at this point was that using the step system instead of a grinder pump would
have no advantage. The cost per each residence would be more expensive and there would be additional O andM cost for periodic solids pumping. The new wastewater treatment facility is designed to treat wastewater to below BMAP area discharge limits without pre-treatment such as what a step a step
system could minimally provide. Again, I am not the expert. I am just giving you the information, but Brandon has obviously been working in this field and can give you more educated response than I can. the the system that you're talking about uh they have a a variation of that
system up in Sebring on the I'll say on the west side where they where the hospital is out there those homes out past there I believe >> the same that they're putting in the E1 is identical there's no difference
whatsoever than the pump that would go into the septic tank. It's still a E1 grinder. The only thing that's different is the housing unit. You you got a E1 housing because so you're going to have to pump out the
the the E1 or sorry the lip septic tank, set a pump down in there. you're gonna or you're going to have to demolish it and then you're going to have to dig a hole to put a new E1 pump in with less room less just it's not
going to be hold just about 100 gallons and then you're going to have to run the wire. You're going to have to do that anyways. But if we don't have like I said I'm going to get in trouble. That's all right. If if you drop the E1 inside a a septic tank, all right, that holds
800 gallons and run your pipe even out the discharge in where your drain field was and you cap it. You you concrete around it and uh then you go right out to the main, you're already at an advantage of
five 600 gallons if a storm comes, if a power outage and so the E1 pumps still going to do the same thing. It's going to have a high level alarm, lowle alarm. None of that changes. All that's changing is your unit that you're placing that E1 in. And so it's either
it's crushing the old tank that might not even now if it passes inspection and I >> and crushing it, you're contaminating the soil anyway. >> Correct. So you got to 30 years. Boom. >> And then you got to bring in field and
then I mean you you look at it. So, the way we did it, and I can only talk about what what process I've done, we were dropping these E1s in as a whole unit, crushing the tank, and I'm like, man, we're crushing like tanks that there's
nothing wrong with them. So, what we just went ahead and did, we bought risers and we came up out of the risers, plumbed it, and to where it would go straight into the force man. And uh when you have to change out the motor, you pop the the lid up, undo it, pull your
lever, pull your pump out, put a new one in, and you go about your business. And so uh we found that that was easier and more effective to do because the tank is already there. It's doing there's nothing wrong with it. >> And if if uh I'll be honest with you, I
just installed a $2,000 or $8,000 drain field at my house. And uh if I knew that there was a e like a sewer line in front of my house, I would have I would have ordered one and I would have put it in my tank. I wouldn't have bought the whole housing unit because it's a
disadvantage for the homeowner. >> Uh and I have a generator at my house, but that's just me. I I'll be quiet now. I'm a preacher. I can stay here preaching, talk all day. >> So, is that approved? Is that legal? All that stuff. >> That's legal. Yes. Well, yeah.
>> Never worry. Nobody gets mad here. >> Yeah. >> No. And then from what I read, from what I read, the advant the pump will last longer because it's not grinding up everything in your house. The solids go into the tank. And sure, you've got to
have it pumped regularly, but so what? The pump has less wear and tear. >> What we found with that was it's on a frame that sits about this wide. the motor comes up and you're about this high off the ground. And so what we
found it still gets solids, but after like five years, if we went and looked just to to make sure everything's running good, we found that solids was in the corners, >> but everything in the middle was sucked up. I mean, and so eventually it would
break apart, of course, but the the pump's designed to pull solids, you you name it. And so it's a good pump. But it does have that disadvantage. Sometimes the solids will end up in the corner, but all in all, the the fluid still goes
through the E1. >> I think what you're saying is maybe it would just like auto digest in the tank a while before the pump kicks on, maybe is what she's getting at. >> Oh, you still got an operational level of about 18 in. >> Yeah. But so instead of everything going through the pump, >> well, it's still going to be going
through the pump because it's dumping into your tank. >> Pardon? >> The tank The pump is sitting in the tank, >> right? But instead of everything going into this 100gallon reservoir and everything going through the grinder, >> it's going into the 700gallon or 800 or 15, whatever you have. And
>> and you're not destroying pumping out >> and you're not destroying your your tank and your yard, >> right? >> And so forth. >> What what we also did was we had a trencher. This a means of method for whoever does it, but we would trench go right up to
the septic tank, dig it up uh on the uh outlet side, and we would just put the trench straight down all the way to the force man. >> And so the impact of these nice yards was about two foot. Once it was covered
up, it was about 8 in wide. >> And the pump would run less. >> Correct. Yes. >> And when it did kick on, it would be more efficient. It would run a little longer. So it's not on and off on and off. >> Yes, sir. You're correct. >> Constantly. So that would help the power bill as well. >> I think that's a great way to do it.
>> It would be it would be an option for the septic tanks. So we're able to withstand it or right >> that would pass the inspection >> because I'm sure there's some concrete block septic tanks out there. >> Yeah. >> So my point was if you're trying to save money, if you don't have to destroy a
tank plus the benefits, let's look into that option also. And you don't have that immediate contamination when you break that tank. >> Correct. Because you do because here's the thing. You have to pump the tank out before we crush it. That's a cost.
>> You got to crush the tank. You have to call a contractor in to crush the tank. Then you have to buy fuel uh fuel to do it. And so you're buying an essentially a whole 100gallon tank that you probably don't even need to do that
with. So that that's there is cost savings and I can reach out to >> or put your 100gallon tank in the 700gallon tank and save crushing it and the contamination. >> Yeah. Say that again. I'm sorry. >> I said or put the 100gallon tank in the
700gallon tank and not worry about crushing it and leave it like it's been. >> They're two different housing. So the tanks >> way they're built. >> Yeah. And and so you don't even need the the 100gallon tank. The AMGP is really all you need in the pipe and you're
getting all that, but there is a price difference by just saying, "Hey, give me the connections, the check valves, and the pump and we need to get that number if that was is if that's something y'all want to look at." Mhm.
>> And and so all I know is if I looking at a homeowner, if I had my house 10 years old, five years old, and you're telling me I got to hook it up, and I don't have and I can't afford a generator, and you're
you're telling me you're moving me from 800 gallons to 100 gallons. Uh I wouldn't want that. I'm just being honest with you. But that's up to y'all. I I have a question also. The uh the the
pump is a 220 volt pump, 240 volt pump, right? Is is there a pump or do they have a version of that pump that since uh that would work off of 120
volts? Now, I understand, you know, it's a matter of how much how many gallons per hour you want to pump and the head that you're pumping against, you know, but if you if it's a situation where you're not pumping against a high head instead of having the they they claim
that the the the pump is going to run for like five minutes or so, you know. So, so if you could have a half horsepower pump and let's say it has to run for 10 minutes every whatever four hours, eight hours, whatever it is, that
would help a lot of the people that have small or portable generators at their house, you know what I mean? They would be able to run that uh that pump without having to depend on the city to come around
every couple days or whatever to do it. Yeah, >> it would be something that, you know, to look into maybe is is there a obviously if you're if your house is sitting way way down and the line at the street is way way up in the air, well, you
probably need the uh the 240 volt uh you know, one horsepower or whatever it is pump. But but if you're in my case, my house actually sits above the street a little bit. You know, maybe there's a version of that pump that uh that could
run off a 120 and I had my own uh small generator that would would would run that uh >> Yes. >> you know, a a smaller pump. >> Yeah. So, one of the things is the head pressure because most likely if you're
running a AMGP or E1, that's the same thing, right? uh if you're if you're running that you're you're normally running that into a force man that has system pressure. So you're looking at head pressure and then if you're you're up down here and the lines up here
you're looking at 2.34 per psi per foot. And so that's that's the reason why we have the the 240 that the pump's ideal. It's it's a great pump for the application for the the town of Lake
Placid. Um, as for the 240, I wouldn't really get into the lowering the amps on that. Uh, because that that gives the people in the town just the opportunity to go down to a store and just put in a pump and it if it's going into our
system, we need to have control over that. And then also each one of these pumps uh on on the uh the panel will have a generator hookup and so they they will have a connection where they can hook up a generator. But you're correct,
not all homes have the 240. They only have like the one >> Yeah. I mean, from what I've seen that the homes that have 240 volts are the ones that have a generator permanently installed, you know, but the people that have portable generators, you know, they
want to run the refrigerator and a couple lights or and a TV or whatnot, you know, those are generally 120 volt. >> Yeah. One of the things Jennifer and I, Miss Jennifer and I was discussing is
that when you do install these E1s, we need to put in the code that we get a popup cleanout. If we go tank or, you know, the 800gallon tank or the the 100gallon tank, we need to protect the
town from something going into that house and sewer going in that house. And those popup cleanouts is about $12 fix for that. >> So >> you're saying if you if you were to use the >> filled up >> if you were to use the original septic tank.
>> No, you No, my understanding that the E1s are vented to the atmosphere. >> That's That's correct. >> And that's also going to be your overflow if if the thing fills up. So you don't need an additional >> overflow, do you?
I mean, they had one here one time and I looked at it, you know, and the uh the the pump basin has to be vented, otherwise the pump wouldn't work. >> Correct. >> Right. So, and that that would uh serve
as your overflow also. That that is correct. But depending on the amount of flow that vent tube is only right at two inches, like inch and a quarter, inch and a half. So that's why we went where I come from, we went with the 4 in or 3 in popup cleaner.
>> Okay. >> Just I mean it's a very simple fix for >> so we don't have problems. >> And you didn't get any any fumes coming out of that? >> No, it's it caps. >> Oh, okay. It's like a
>> flat ball that flows up and it just >> Okay, >> that brings up another topic. For the electrical installation for the control panel itself, it will require in the um
panel box on the homeowner. They have to have two open spaces, >> right? Yeah, I know. >> So, it might be an issue for some of the homeowners that have like a older box, >> some of the older real old houses. Yes. >> Correct. So that's something we have to
also keep in mind as we approach this. We gave you a lot of information today. So, I'm sorry. I kind of got us off I got us off the rails. You were looking for a um recommendation. >> That's our job.
These are my recommenders. >> Can somebody state the recommendation that you want? Clearly like like a motion, only a recommendation. I do not have one written. >> I'm sorry.
>> I said I did not have one written for you. I apologize. Recommendation, Brandon. >> You don't have one. >> Okay. Yes, ma'am. >> Pampress. A few more things I thought of. And when I think of these things, I'm in the audience. I don't have like
utility hat on or CRA hat on, but CRA has reserves a community redevelopment agency. So maybe it has 600,000 in reserves. I don't know. But part of that can be used for blighted areas,
utilities. I there's Yes. And the other part would be flowers and pots and other things. But perhaps if if you're needing like this much per home to get them over some kind of hump or if they're in the CRA, maybe that would work. Um, number
two, TAL Rancort isn't here. I think it's crit critically important somebody contact him and make sure he's up to date on what happened. Make sure he gets the handout from this morning because it'll be hard for him to come back next month and say, "What are y'all talking
about?" The other thing is I've always tried to get the council and this committee. You're taking on the heavy load because the Highlands County doesn't have a utility department. It's unfair to the town and you you being
that loop rack, whatever it's called. It covers the Lake Placid Regional Plan area. You go down to Highway 70. You go up north, east, and west. I I was on a U BAP Okachobee BMAP Zoom call last week.
By 2028, the town is going to have to account for every septic tank in its utility area that is not on central sewer. And you're going to have to have a plan in place, they said by 2030 how they're going to get on central sewer.
So, not just in the town limits, but your utility service area. Y'all can't do it. You can't I mean I know I should be looking at you, but you can't even do it for your town limits. You're not going to be able to do it for utility or the region. Do you cut back on that the
region? Um and then do I think the county will give you all utility money? No. But do I think you need to ask? Absolutely. Because they just get out scotch-free. They don't have to pay anything for any part of it. It is not fair. I'll wrap it up. Um on the cost
overruns, Jack, the the um today the county commission meeting, the gel expansion project had $2 million for cost overruns and they approved it on the consent agenda. It's happened and unfortunately this $40 million project
got off track because of COVID and the prices increased and and then you had some the staff turn the over or turnover and then things just got out of control. Some things were beyond their
control. anybody's but remember like Kevin's saying about the lake plastic camping conference center that lift station he budgeted marquada and south south plant based on the cost of conference center and it had doubled that's how you get in the position of
being short money so there's a lot of things I mean yes we needed a project manager yes we needed to say a town engineer yes but also I remember Kevin being up here he was in charge of seven water and sewer grants at the same time than the current council, not had some
old council, new council. He was also the $40 million project manner utility and they put him as in as town administrator. We So I think you whoever I'm talking to, you need to have realistic expectations on staff. Don't
set them up for failure is what I and saying I'm trying to wrap it up. Um, and then the more joy that you spoke about what council has voted and stuff. I think the last time it was discussed at council and I don't know if y'all put in
an ordinance or you just voted but it was the last thing was that the town was going to own the E1 pumps and that hurricane comes electric goes off don't worry about it because the town's coming out to to pump it pump them out and that
they would own for the life of the E1 the town would own it replace it. So there there is a lot of conflicting information out there and and Greg Sap is on the council now. He was adamant back in the day that every
customer pay 100% on their own. That was the sentiment of the old council. There's new council and but these things have to be discussed and fleshed out because it's it's been here. We're doing this, we're doing that and then I guess
that's enough. Thank you. So when I came here, I was tasked with developing the subject to sewer program and based on living here the majority of my life and my family being here. Um
it's very personal to me as well on doing this. So, one of my goals was to make sure or try my best to ensure that however this was rolled out that it was equitable and it it was the same for
everyone no matter what your, >> you know, financial situation is. Now, are there times again where we can wave fees for existential circumstances? Yes. Um, but consistent I think is ultimately
important for the town to do that because if if we start a precedence of okay you guys get these for free because we happen to have money but next year we don't have that money and sorry you guys it's going to be $11,000
and I just I'm concerned about going in that direction. That's just my little input on that. um because we we cannot rely on grants and and we do we do need to be fair to every
resident. Um so just my take on it. Yeah, the chair usually doesn't make motions. So, you're looking for a recommendation for the town to pay for 27 homes to
connect utilizing the existing septic tank if it passes inspection with a pop out cleanout valve. Is that what you're looking for? >> That would go with the 319 grant, >> right? To be paid for from the 319 money.
>> Yes. But as as it stands right now, that could be gravity depending on >> whatever it is to pay for it >> that the town would pay for it. But we we haven't got the approval letter on that yet. >> Okay. >> As well. So >> So pending the approval,
>> right? >> Correct. >> Okay. But a recommendation like that would cure this. Correct. Provided the council. This our recommendation to the council, not >> we're not spending the money. They are. >> Yeah. depending on the condition of the the subject tank. Yes.
>> Yep. Usually if if it passes inspection. >> Correct. Yes. >> And I put in there with a popup cleanout valve. >> Correct. >> Which we need to make sure that's written into our whatever ordinance. Like you said, don't forget that little piece. I think that is important the
town has access to it. That cost will change. I'll I'll email Randy and ask him what the price of just the pump and without the uh >> right with this recommendation I don't think the cost matters >> matters correct
but it will overall like for the budget when that grant does >> come in yeah it will lower it >> sure but I don't think I can do that recommendation Can I I mean I'm I don't remember
anywhere in parliament procedure. >> You're a voting you're a voting member. So it's different than >> I know what I'm the chair. I mean I could pass the gavl but >> we haven't in the past. In the past we haven't >> pass the gavl.
>> Okay. I'd like to pass the gavl for this item of business >> to Mr. Draper. Okay. So, talk to him. >> We have three. >> Yeah. Oh, I I have a quorum still.
Correct. >> We have three as a >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> So, do we have a motion? >> I'm I'm saying, Mr. Chairman, you're recognized. Yes. Uh, I move that the town pay for the 27 homes to be connected utilizing the existing septic
tank if it passes inspection with a popup um cleanout valve to be paid for with the 319 funds. >> We have a second. >> I second. Motion. >> Motion's made a second. >> Uh, question real quick. Uh, with or
without the connection fee? >> Pay for it. Pay for the 100% of it right down to the sod. Yeah, >> we don't need to keep picking it apart and we want to pay for it. That's >> 100%. >> Okay. >> And then let council they can chew that
up. >> Any any other discussion? >> Would you call the role, please? >> Matt Elliot. >> Yes. >> Jack Conley? >> Yes. >> John Draper? >> Yes. Motion passes. It's over.
>> Thank you, staff. >> Yes. >> We appreciate you. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Please find out about the master plan where we are on that. >> Yes. >> And let's plan this workshop so we can flesh out all this stuff and set a priority list, what needs to be hit
first and not, and go through that. Please. >> What um what I'll do is I'll look at the calendar. I'll send out an email if you can propose a few days that may look good for you for some workshops then we can go ahead and look at that. Um and then the other thing is is we do have empty seats. Eva I don't know if you
want to talk about that for a moment. >> Yeah. So um probably not this May and not this month to council but the following month but probably in June going to be bringing back to them um appointment recommendations. So we want to put an ad. So, if you're still
interested in serving, just shoot me an email so we can get reappoints done and then you have open seats, we're going to advertise for um and to move forward. We did that with LPA last night. They made their announcement and then council is
aware it'll come it'll come before them. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and what's the status on the um, camping conference center SRF waterline grant? Before we go, the SRF is not closed at this point. Um,
the state is asking that the town update the um, asset management plan. So we're in working with Florida Rural Water Patrick and so we're hoping by the end of the month we have that completed so that we can provide it to them so they can close out.
>> Okay. >> Sewer. >> Asking for water. >> Sewer. >> That's the sewer or the water? >> For the sewer. >> I thought you were asking for water. >> I said waterline grant. Um I know I just
see emails between Corbett keep asking about the status but I think they're waiting for the sew to close first get closed first >> so they >> okay >> yeah we we can't have more than one of them open and so we're trying to get this one closed out and then the other one will move forward
>> right >> and I believe the reason why they were asking for the asset management to be updated correct me if I'm wrong it was 23 the last time was it 23 the last time that one was done on the >> making progress >> that we're making progress on the
previous plan with an implementation plan. >> Okay. >> Great. >> From Yeah. >> Anything else from the >> Yep.
>> back to Simpsonville. If they're under a consent order, why don't we ask them to kick in some money towards the conversion? It's either they pay us or they have to pay for themselves. >> That's right. So, right now, when I talk
with the uh the supervisor over it, I I went on the the site just to speak with them, go through and talk with them. They said they roughly have about 40 50,000 uh and that's all they they have. And what they were one of their questions
they had for me is when you do a shutdown, decommissioning is what it's called on your plant, how much does that cost? And I said, I'm not giving you no numbers on that. Uh you would have to go through D. They give you a waiver form. We're about to have to do it to the
south plant and we'll get real familiar with how to do it. But um they were focusing taking that money and decommissioning the the the plant. That's what that that's their their goal with that leftover money that they have. So pretty much they were wanting us just
to come and pay for the whole lift station, pipe work and all. And that would have to go it would have to be a grant in order for us to achieve that. >> But I'm confused if we just say, "Hey, you're on your own.
Then what does it cost them >> right right now? They're on their own. >> Well, and I mean if if with the consent order, if we just let them hang out there and say we're not going to help you, what is their cost? What cost will
they incur with the consent order? >> So, it's samples. So they they would have to I I even encourage them to go and get an OP meter and install that at that facility which controls the amount of oxygen for the best effective
nutrient removal. And so they said, "Well, that's going to be upwards to $60,000." Well, as of right now, the plant is it's theirs. It they're just trying to wash their hands and get away from it. But as it stands, we we could walk away and
say, "Well, we don't want it, you know, and they would have to like figure out how to do that." >> I think you're talking about the plant. You're talking about individual people, correct? >> I'm I'm talking about Simpsonville. >> Yeah. The whole whole system. >> The Yeah. >> The whole system.
>> Their wastewater plant. Yeah. >> So, I don't guess what I'm trying to figure out is what are the ramifications to them for being under consent order. If we say we're not going to take it over, what is their cost burden?
>> It's 100% it is their plan. So, uh even though they want to give it to us, uh if we say no, we we they're we don't have the funds. We right now is not a good time. They're going to have to figure it out. They're going to have to get back into compliance
>> with the state. And that's between them. I don't know what their uh list of uh warnings are from the state. Uh but they would have to fix those correction to get back in compliance with the state. That's all it is. It's just the
>> order. So I was just trying to figure out whether if it's going to cost them 100,000, 200,000, 50,000 or whatever >> at least contribute that much back to us. >> These 27 houses, they're not there, are
they? Yeah, I didn't think so. Right. >> Okay. Anything else? Like to thank the mayor for coming. Appreciate that. Thank you back there. Um seeing none, we'll um set the dates for the workshop as soon as we
can. Um appreciate that. And thanks again staff for everything. Um meeting a journ. Coach