All right, I'm going to call the meeting to order. This is a [snorts] special meeting scheduled for December 2nd, 2025 for the Lakeville area schools. If you will all rise for the pledge of >> allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, we can do uh roll call maybe starting on my left and going around the table. Uh, Bill Homegrren, >> Carly Anderson, >> Paul Corbone,
>> Brenda Albert, >> Amber Cameron, Rashad Humphrey, >> Tony Rankenberger, >> Emily McDonald, >> Lucas Young, >> oh, Tracy Rald, >> Kim Baker, >> Michael B. >> All right. And I'm Matt Swanson. So,
board, I will say we we ended up jamming more things into this night than or initially anticipated. um just with three weeks left, we had a lot of stuff to kind of put in and our next two meetings will be busy as well. Um some of these things are just I mean all of the things [snorts] are just for
discussion. Um but we don't necessarily have to spend a ton of time on them depending on interest. So I guess we'll just jump right into the first thing. Um combining polling locations. This is something the district uh brought to our attention as a recommendation. Um this would apply
only to special elections um not to any of our general elections and the thought process is to try to save some costs on polling locations and then I don't know Kim if you had some additional comments or >> other if I can. Um so thank you Mr.
chair and um exactly what the chair said, but um a couple of other pieces to this that I think are gerine or important to understand. Uh I board members, I I sent you a read ahead on this. Obviously, there's information in the packet. It's it's the same
information. Um one of the biggest challenges uh with elections is the heavy amount of administration associated with it. And just for historical context in the district, the executive assistant to the
superintendent is the lead on that and has been in the time I've been in the district and before uh going going back to Mary Manning and uh and be and before that and um one of the challenges that
we have is we have to do all of the pieces and back about 2012 or ish. Um the city had uh helped us out a lot um in terms of giving us uh support
from their uh election office whether we were in a general election or a special election. Um and then that kind of dwindled away u probably about 2017 or 18 there was some change over in the office there and it's really been on on
us especially for non-general elections. Okay. We don't have a special staff for that. We have an individual that's uh in the personage of Kim Ellson now. Um and I think the record should reflect that
uh she's done a fabulous job of making sure that the elections have gone according to requirements. Um I will also say that the process for elections has matured
over the years. Uh and the the scenarios of you can only go to a polling place and you have to stand in line >> [clears throat] >> um are days of your and your spelled y o r e.
um that's not a thing any longer. Um and so in the contemporary operating environment of how elections are held today, um I think that it merits our consideration and we of course want to
answer your questions, but merits our consideration to bring this back and have a conversation about consolidation, reducing the number of polling places. So as the information shared there um when you see a polling place you have all the judges you have
all the equipment and then you have a lot of regulation that you have to operate under um in order to carry out that election with fidelity and efficacy uh which is always our goal. Um so I just want to set that groundwork as we
talk about this uh and the different courses of action and um our subject matter expert is in fact Kim Ellson and our guest would you introduce yourself ma'am? >> Yeah absolutely. Good evening everyone. My name is Michelle Blue. I'm the Dakota County elections director.
>> Okay. So we have the Dakota County Guru. Uh and if she had a t-shirt it would say guru on it. Um, so I think, you know, my goal here was to make sure that what your questions may be get answered and
they get answered promptly and with the level of depth I think you would want to make sure you have. >> Yeah, Michael, just as a a general opening comment, uh, Lakeville itself doesn't bother me for condensing uh,
voting areas. it. You know, driving five miles should be nothing, honestly. [snorts] But the thing that I do have a little bit of pause on is going down into Scott County and those southern areas where if [snorts] in fact we start eliminating
places to go and vote, somebody may just, you know, particularly in a special election because the motivation isn't president, isn't Congress, isn't Senate, you know, it's it's the motivation's low. That being said, you know, if it's a cold and rainy November
night, There may be people who don't want to drive another x amount of time to do that. So again, I'm okay in Lakeville. I'm I'm not necessarily okay with going down south in those wide open
and spread out areas. [laughter] >> Okay. So Michelle, have you guys done this in other other districts and other areas as well? >> So every school district in Dakota County combines their polling places. Um, Lakeville is the only school district that does not. Um, I'm not
aware of any school districts in this state that don't combine for um for special standalone elections. Um, it's so yes, they they all combine. Many combine into a single location. Um,
South St. Paul Schools does, the Cannonfall School District and Shakape School District, which is larger than Lakeville. they combine into a single polling place for elections. So, it's very common. >> As a practical question, how many people
voted early this year? Um, and was it I mean, it was located here. So, how disruptive was that to the staff as they were working um using this as a place? I don't find that it was disruptive to the staff because it was me and then we
hired [laughter] I mean I didn't do a lot of my other jobs for these guys but we hired three election judges who came in to help work in that election room that aren't uh district office staff. We also had two district
office staff that were trained for election judges to come in and help as needed. Um I think that worked out really well. These are the same people that also help at the city of Lakeville. And just like this is kind of a good part-time job for them to go and help
out the city. Likewise, I go help the city when they're having the election so that I can keep fresh. This is like a language that you need to keep speaking in order to stay on top of things. Michelle has answered thousands of my questions in her team to get all the nuances that change every single year
down right. Um, so it's very disruptive, but we set up in that classroom uh pattern so that voters could come right in, vote there, get right out. So we didn't have people wandering in the office at all. Plus, they have it's 46
days that we had to be open for voters to come in here. Plus, we also have um the option for mail-in voting. We per that people can sign up to be permanent absentee voters. So on the 46 days ahead of time, we mailed out for Scott County.
We handle the Scott County part. Michelle handles the Dakota County. We sent out more than 100 applications. They would send it back. We would mail back their ballot. They would send it back. We would process the ballot. Then do you know offhand how many you had for
um Lakeville? I feel like it was >> it was approximately 2,000 I believe. >> Yeah. of of the early voting, absentee voting, not just the day of. So >> the vast majority, sorry, the vast majority of those are voters who are um on the permanent absentee list. So
they're automatically mailed a ballot and so that's how a lot of them find out there's an election going on and then they vote and return their ballot, >> which is becoming more and more popular every year. and they had an option to check on their when they were voting with us here. We could point out, you
know, if you like this or people that would call me mostly for the for the ballots to be mailed to them. I could say when you get this, you're going to see on the top right a check box. If you check that next year, you don't have to call me. I'll just send it to you automatically. And people were very
excited about that option. So, >> so I have a question. Why wouldn't we just go down to one place if we have I mean if other places are doing this effectively and that would probably be a savings to us and then also we have the district office open for such an
extended period of time to do early voting. >> It's a good question but when we have brought this before to be combined even to half it hasn't been approved so I did not want to go right from 20 down to one. Um, it's definitely been a
conversation that we've had and I said, I just don't know that they'll be ready to make a change. So, this is why we wanted [clears throat] to talk about it and bring back what else do you want to see? Well, Carly, I would also say too and to to uh Director Carbone's uh point
around um you know, how far do you have to go and um making that maintaining some uh and I think we did put all the mileages in there for you to to assess that um that
what Kim said and the fact that we want to I guess not make it extremely overly consolidated. I I only worry that this might be a little confusing for people to be combining in this way of like where this is my precinct where I normally go, but
like where would I go in this combined fashion and how people are going to get that information? >> Um, so polling places change regularly for many varieties of reasons. um it's, you know,
it's it's a church that has has changed leadership and they want us to move or this we we find that this building is is aging and we we'd like to move out of it. Um we respond a lot of requests from schools who say we'd prefer to not have voting take place in our schools. And so
um voters are are fairly used to their election uh polling place changing from election to election. Um we we don't see very often that voters are unable to locate their polling place. Um it it is
available online. Um we we do have people who who call us and and find it, but um but but every other voter in Dakota County um in November was going to a polling place that was not their usual polling location. So it it is
pretty common. >> Okay. Thank you. Did you see any drops in voter turnout when you've done combinations like this before or consolidations? >> Um, I I have not seen anything that I can attribute to combining polling
places. >> Well, we we could also consider like doing a southern one and a northern one if we're trying to be more accommodating to people. >> So, at least maybe going to I don't know. I mean, I appreciate wanting to make sure nobody has to drive a super
far distance, but also appreciate that we could do this effectively if other districts are doing that as well. >> I agree. I don't like the fact that there's no location in Scott County for alcohol worked with. >> Mhm. >> Well, >> as someone who lives in one of the non-lethal locations,
um I'm I want us to be efficient both from a cost perspective and from a staffing perspective. if all these other school like I feel like this is a repeat conversation. You name the topic like Lakeville just is not in line with our
peers on on many things it feels like and so if we is doing this and why school district is ginormous too right and they have one polling location I I don't see the argument why we would spend more money spend more staff time when this is a model that
our peers are using for special elections. it seems like a waste of taxpayer resources and our staff time that is valuable like we don't have extra that sitting around right so for me I I'd push for consolidation into one
and I live in I don't live in Lakeville so I'm speaking from my personal experience I think all the things that we mentioned about early voting opportunities is extensive and so if people can't vote on that night um they have many options to vote at a time
>> geographic ically are we as wisetta as large or expansive as our school district? >> I don't know, but they have like 15 cities in their school district. I mean, it's it's large. I just know that cuz my mom taught there.
>> I I just my concern and as has been has been expressed. I mean, we're looking 6.2 miles to travel for Credit River. Um, I know voting's already down on special elections and it's just going to make it even harder, you know, or reduce our turnout
even more. Um, but no, I agree. Efficiency. I mean, if I drive by polling locations going to my polling location, you know. Um, so I wouldn't have a problem like in Lakeville, you know, cuz I'd still only probably go one mile. Um,
but yeah, some of those outer areas. I guess the the point of putting this on here because we're not voting on it tonight was just to see if there's interest in in pursuing this further and we can discuss it and circulate different options um and different ideas. So, we don't have to hammer
something out today, but >> I think um I think I appreciate bringing it up um as person who just went through this. I think um just throwing out some numbers uh helps put things in perspective. Um in presidential years um about 45,000 people will vote in
Lakeville. Um in special election this last time um the number was largely consistent with one the last special election which is roughly about 11 12,000 people. >> About 2,000 people voted early. So you're looking at about 10,000 people
voting on election day. Um that's a lot of people in one plot one spot. Um you would have to manage that. um we don't want to turn not so just keeping that in mind. >> I think that was a concern in the past,
right? Like if somebody drove up to a polling station, there was a line, they'd just keep driving, right? And I think that was a concern with passing some levies in the past. So, you obvious want to keep that in mind. I I do know just as a we did receive some emails about taking them out of the schools
which I wouldn't mind doing that um on a special election so they're not disrupting the day but uh yeah no it's a good consideration if you got 10,000 people trying to hit one or two or whatever number it is in one day could be an issue.
So, one of the combinations I'd like to talk about, especially while Michelle is here, is a change in the equipment that Dakota County is, and we're very glad about it. It's exciting to see the new um equipment that they're getting, but Scott County
is not matching that change at the same time. So there's a reason that we presented the combination um that it was was called the super combined where our Scott County voters do travel into Dakota County. So that would take that option takes away the
possibility of having us go down to New Market or Elco New Market for the voters if we do this. And the reason >> at Trinity, is that right? >> It prints them at Trinity, which is um depending on where you're driving from
also right on the border for Credit River, New Market, and Alco New Market. Um I a lot of my election judges that come from that area drive up this area for work. Anyhow, I just don't think that's I also think when you live out in those outskirts, you're probably used to
driving for the election day itself. The difference will be um Scott County doesn't have an elections department like Dakota County does. Scott County turns over all of the absentee ballots. All of the work of the
elections comes to us to do where Dakota County does the absentee processing for us. They also do all of the equipment programming, the election equipment. So from our ballots to our tabulator sim
cards to the poll pads that have all the information that work has not been on my radar at all because it's so seamlessly done by Dakota County. They can't do it anymore because Scott County has entirely different equipment.
And so Scott County has says that's what you will do, Kim. You will work with Dominion or whoever the programmers are. You will find a vendor who will program and print your ballots. You will find whoever can do the poll pads. It's a lot
of not that we can't do it. will be able to do it. But it's just a whole another level of elections responsibility and um learning because of the change in the equipment and the equipment that they're getting which we went to um learn about
and see the different options that they had. It is very exciting for me and for other election judges to see how much easier it's going to be. And so, um, that option of moving everybody into Dakota County lets Michelle and her team
handle all of it for us and I don't have to work with Scott County. We don't have to drive out. We don't have to borrow their equipment. It's a whole another level of extra on on our grounds crew and on me working with Scott County that I would love to, if possible, move on to
Michelle's point. [laughter] So, is there more that I didn't miss about the >> It it it's it's an interesting dynamic now with 87 counties in Minnesota and only five use Dominion and two of them are Dakota and Scott. Um, as as Kim
mentioned, um, Dakota County is replacing our aging voting equipment. We had been in this really fortunate circumstance [clears throat] where Scott County used to use all the same stuff as we did. And so we could we were able to program all of their
equipment, read it on all of our on all of our software and an election management system, program the ballots, do all that stuff because we had the same equipment. We will not have that anymore moving forward. Um, the only way the state allows us to uh to do that for
uh for a any district that crosses into another um county is if they is is if they're really truly indistinguishable um me and this is what a lot of other school districts do. They'll they'll combine them all. So Hastings has one
precinct that includes voters from Dakota, Washington, and Goodw County. And at that point, they're all considered one single precinct. And then we have the ability to serve all of the voters there because it is one single precinct. They they are no longer
distinguishable as a separate precinct voter. For the purposes of a school district standalone election, um they would be all considered in one all in one precinct. Um, so that is the only way that we have the ability um is if
those are combined into Dakota County precincts. Then uh with the statewide voter registration system, we have the ability to combine them with Dakota County voters. With our equipment, we're able to combine them and do everything together. So that that is an option for
you. But that that would be the only way that we could um because other than that the Scott County equipment is is it it's a different system and um and and they just they don't have the ability to serve that. So they ask um school
districts to work directly with their with the vendors >> which is why you see an extra cost too because now we'll have to pay for all of that where it was part of our agreement with them before. >> Yeah. So Michelle, will they will Scott County at some point in time get an
updated system? Question number two is if they don't, is what they're using still sufficient to count votes? And question number three is if either one of those things don't work, can we get Kim more help? Because what we don't want to do, you know, based upon what I
originally said is we don't want to impede people in rural areas from going to vote. and and that again up here I don't care honestly I think we can get efficient I think we can do all the things that we're talking about and we
don't lose a stroke but I still am worried about Scott County so question one two and three >> so Scott County has told me that their timeline is not to be uh consider equipment replacement for another five years so they're quite a ways away from
that um but yes absolutely their their their tabulators are are functional They're all still certified. Everything uh all of the equipment that you used in November um that you would use in special elections um moving forward,
there's no concern with it not working, not being maintained. Um that that is all maintained annually through preventive maintenance with the contractor. Um so I so so please don't don't um yeah, don't worry. That's not a
concern. Um but but yeah I I just said the superintendent had made a comment about it it is a standard structure. My understanding is every school district in the state is structured that way. So the executive assistant to the superintendent is the primary lead on
elections and um and and and that that's a that's a great discussion for you all. It is a tremendous amount of work. Um that is why most school districts have uh have transitioned to evenear elections because it is it it is a
daunting task. Absolutely. >> So you mentioned that Hastings has one polling location for their whole district and it's in Dakota County. So they actually have combined. They have 27 separate precincts, but they have combined down to five. But but yes, one
of those five does serve voters from Dakota, [clears throat] Good Hugh, and Washington. >> So there's no additional ones in Good Hugh and Washington. >> Correct. Yes. >> To avoid the extra costs that would be required. >> Exactly. And they're uh those other counties [clears throat] use different equipment from us. So they Yeah. So that
would be the same concern. So, their voters um they always come into our county and they they have for several years now >> and that seems to be working fine. Like from what you've heard from it seems >> I mean they keep doing that so it must be working. >> I haven't heard any concerns about it.
Yeah, we it's it's worked for for as long as I've been at Dakota County. Yeah. >> It is interesting to get the perspective that we're the only one. Are you say the only district in the state or school district that hasn't doesn't combine >> that? I'm not aware of any others that
don't combine their polling places. >> And we couldn't say what Scott County will choose. They listened to four different vendors. Everybody got to vote on it. We learned the pros and the cons. So, I can't say we just put up with this for five more years and then it'll be the same and we can go back to the way
it was. So, we don't know. I Great. I um >> the only other thing I'll frame is uh obviously we're not making a decision on this matter tonight. Uh but I we do have uh I think it's by December 31st.
>> Yeah, we do need to make a decision decision um in order to set the conditions for uh any future elections. Um, and then looking at our schedule, that really puts us at the 9th or the 16th. >> One more.
>> Oh, sorry. >> I was just going to say one more point about the Scott County. We purposely did keep those three together to move to the Trinity location so that when we are advertising, we we can say all Scott County voters will go to Trinity instead of if you
were if you were voting in Credit River, you would go here. if you were here, you'll get a postcard of exactly where they're going to vote. And our comm's team is already talking about, you know, there's one website you can go to. So, teaching people how to answer that
question and confirm for them. I got a lot of phone calls from people, where do I vote? You know, we'll be ready for all of that. I'm not worried about the person not knowing where to vote. Plus, we sent signs to the places that were different so that on the door they see
voting is at Lakeville South this year, you know, so people are going to be taken care of the level of service. I'm not worried about that. It's a huge change for this first year and then I think they get it. You just double check every time. I used to vote at Hosana,
then I started voting at the Latterday Saints. Now I don't trust that they didn't change it and I'm not aware of it. So I go on to mnvotes.org or and just double check before. Um, plus they can vote early at the Western Service Center at
that's Apple Valley and in Hastings if people are out and about and they want to vote. So, >> I just am thinking more and more people are going to be doing the early voting and especially if they hear they have to go somewhere new, then they're just going to come in and take care of it at
the one place we talk about for 46 days to come here. So, >> so this, so one, thank you K him for all of your work. Michelle, thank you to be here. >> It's I mean I think maybe there's some difference of opinion of how many we should have, but this would be a reasonable place to start and see what
happens with the data. So if there are questions about does this impact turnout um we could try around and see >> Yep. >> what happens. >> Yep. Thank you for
>> if we consolidated to one, how much money would that save our district? And we might not have that number tonight, but I'm just curious like I'm cognizant of the cost and then I appreciate what you said like districts are moving to um not off year. What's the opposite? Not
off. >> Well, even that's something we as a school district need to start thinking about is not running our own elections all the time. >> We have even year. >> Yeah, we do have even year. So like when it's next year's um election, the city
will do that for us. But when we have a levy or a question that comes up and we can't an appointment, that kind of stuff, >> all this money >> and it will be less expensive, but not we'll still have to like double or triple the amount of election judges at
the if it went down to one, right? >> We would want to staff it so that there is a constant circle of people. We'd be very mindful to handle a crowd, but um the the facilities guys who go out for
two days to collect the equipment that we have to collect from the places to bring it to the polling locations, set it up, you know, to come back two days later to pick up all that stuff. To not drive out to 20 locations is going to be a huge savings. Um my time in going to
test 20 machines is very time consuming. taking the city's pole pads times three programming all of those just having less equipment will be a savings but um it's not that's not the only factor you know that changes to get much less with
one or two but we could definitely make other scenarios to say one in the south one in the north I still um can separate out Scott County but I just we also don't know the price of that for sure Scott County and Dakota County said
somewhere somewhere between 5 and 10,000. You know, it depends. I talked to a couple other school districts and they're like, "Yep, you don't really know until you're in the midst of it." But >> um they were fans. So, >> anything else? >> Right. I think if people have different
scenarios they want to throw in this week via email, we can keep the conversation going. >> Yeah. Feel free to >> bring it back if there seems like there's interest. >> Sounds good. >> Thank you. Mhm. Absolutely.
>> So, our very first teaching and learning QVR. >> I feel like we need a crumb roll or something. So, very exciting. >> We uh I can't remember if we emailed this out, but we tried to time out, you know, Emily and I were talking about
this. You know, how much time do you need after the end of a quarter? um to get results from the classrooms and stuff like that and put it into the system uh for report to the board and it's it's roughly a month after the quarter so this is really first quarter although I don't know that we're necessarily looking at classroom data
yet and so maybe that's more so for the future um sequencing but uh yeah my uh my computer of course needed to update and so it restarted on itself so I don't have it in front of me but I don't know >> if I can just add one think to them as
that's okay. Um uh part of our conversation around timing was first of all this is the first one so we haven't really gotten into a a predictable cycle yet. Um but just to sort of reiterate what uh Matt said you know we talked
about first we talked about like like actual fiscal quarters which is like you know July starts in July that's technically the start of our year we talked about calendar year we talked about and so I think where we landed which is flexible of course as we
continue through this process was to look at when when do we have data that's accessible because obviously everything that's on the QBR isn't accessible multiple times a year. Um, and then because the data has to be entered by
somebody, usually the teacher or somebody in our teaching and learning or MTSS um, integrated continuous improvement department. Um, and then that data has to be processed to then be added to the QBR. So um, so we thought
that a month was after our sort of first um, stopping point. um for lack of a better term uh would be a good place to start. So I'll just hand over to our fabulous TNL team over there. >> Okay. Well, thank you everyone for
inviting us in to talk about our first uh QBR. Um I am here today with Sandy Georgie who is our um fabulous director of teaching and learning for preK through 12 and Nicole Adams who is our
fabulous director of integrated continuous improvement. >> Um they are here to support um in any questions or the conversation that um that we're going to have around the um academic achievement QBR. Um, I would like to also thank they were very
instrumental in putting this booklet together. Our um, wonderful communications team, Grace Olsen, um, helped us um, with this template. Um, uh, and hopefully this is, um, appealing to you and, um, we can use this template
to move forward with our other QBRs. Um, also our data team, Cheryl Gangler, Douglas Nino, and, uh, Garrett Nuto are um, just uh, wonderful in pulling the data for us. So, let me outline um the document that you have in front of you
and you had a little bit of opportunity to take a look at. Um at the beginning of the document, we have our baseline spring data. And so, you'll see all of the areas under student achievement that align to the executive dashboard that I
know Superintendent Bowman also um shared with you. So all of those are aligned and then at the bottom uh there are two areas that we are sharing for a uh quarterly um review and as as Dr. McDonald said those are areas that we
have new data for since the spring data that we shared um earlier. Uh the way this booklet was organized is that um for each data point we have a purpose and then uh the results and a little bit of a narrative analysis around each one
of the results and then action steps. What are we doing as a district to address that data that that you see whether it's um uh uh needs to increase or it's spot-on. What are we doing as a district to um best address that data?
So um with that we are here to stand for questions >> or sit for questions. >> Tracy, when I was looking through the the metrics, there were a couple of things that there were a lot of things in there that stood out, but there there were two things that really caught my
eye. Um, one is on on fastbridge. It looked like uh reading went from 51 to 74 from fall of 24 to fall of 25. And it looked like math went from 57 to 76 from
fall of 24 to 25 if I'm reading that correctly. >> So, there were two separate areas there. Um, when you're looking at the >> That's a great thing. >> Well, when you're looking at the spring data, there are two areas there. One is proficiency and one is growth. And what
you're referring to that was in the 50 percentile that is the growth numbers. And when you see the updated quarterly uh information that's showing proficiency. We can't show growth at this time because growth goes from fall
to spring and we are just at fall. So we'll come back around with growth and we'll be able to compare those growth numbers once we take that test in the spring. Okay. So, >> and we and we also look at growth from fall to fall um which is another indicator that we look at because many
times growth from fall to spring we have a little bit of test fatigue with our students. So, a more accurate look would be from fall to fall and we have we're watching both of those indicators. >> Okay. And thank you for defining that. And the second thing that caught my eye
was the um failing one or more classes. And and I I know you're probably not um enthralled with these numbers either, but when I when I looked at the kids in middle school, uh 6 and a half% of them are failing one or more classes. And
then in high school, just a hair over 18%. And it would make sense that if you're struggling in middle school, because education is to some degree foundational, you're going to struggle even more in in high school. Um, what subjects are people crashing and burning
in? What are we do? and and and maybe this is discussion for another night, but what are we doing to undergard that and to make sure that uh we can turn those numbers around because those those numbers are not I mean, correct me if
I'm wrong, but that those aren't good numbers. >> Um so, first of all, to address the percentages that you see, these are um in progress grades. We haven't had the end of a semester yet for our high school students. So, we're just seeing
an in progress. How many students are failing? Um, as for the middle school, that's also in progress. Um, some of the classes in middle school are year-long classes and so that that percentage will um constantly be in progress. Um
um we see a little bit higher numbers at our middle school from last spring because we did uh remove the least harmful F and that was um where students um uh
uh did not get a zero. They were given a 50% in place of that zero. And so we see the the failure rates a little bit higher because now they're getting a zero zero points out of a 100 rather than getting 50. And so that failure rate is a little bit higher. Um the
courses that we are seeing in um middle school it was ELA and math and at the high school the highest were ELA and um social studies. >> Social studies.
>> Yes. Yeah. Um we do have um there are action steps that we are um taking to support our students. Um one of the big action steps is that our administrators use something called an early warning system. And it's a uh one of our data
dashboards for our administrators that will triangulate uh student grades, attendance, and behavior to um see who's at risk of um failing classes. And so they'll look at that on a regular basis
and then they will reach out to those students at the secondary school. We have our um APs and our counselors who are supporting our our kids. So they'll reach out to them after looking through that AWS uh EWS early warning system.
AWS is technology. Sorry, [laughter] wrong hat. Ryan, wrong hat. Um we also have some things in place at the um high school like our our bar program which is building assets and reducing risks program and that's at our
ninth grade. And so those teachers are meeting with our students on a regular basis to be able to um support them in um uh helping them with their grades, making sure they're turning in homework and they're understanding assignments. We have some other support structures
like wind time, which is what I need time. And so in during a win time, teachers are able to grab students who are failing class and they're able to retach content that they might need to or give kids an opportunity to ask them
questions during the what I need time. And that happens at uh both our middle schools and our high schools. Do you want do you either one of you want to add anything more? Um the other piece that we just recently put in place is notification to families and students
via parent square. Um and so we have a protocol in place both at the middle school and the high school um so families are notified um in just in time to be able to support um and in partnership with the schools. >> Okay. >> Um so one of the questions that I had
when I was reading through the document actually has to do with the least harmful which is on page 13. Um, I wasn't aware that the district discontinued this. And I guess I have lots of questions as to why because when I think about um, elementary and middle school in particular, those grades don't
count towards graduation because students are still in the process of learning the concepts and skills that we need them to do so that when they get to high school, they can apply those skills and go up. Um, the reason that I bring this up is because one of the things that I think about is if you have a middle school student that's getting a
zero, it's going to be almost impossible for that student to make up that grade to actually pass the class. Um, and we've made this change within a year because I don't remember this last year. You can correct me on the date. That's fine. Um, but then I wonder what
supports through MTSS have do we have in place to make sure that we're getting students before they get to a zero? Because like I said, if they get to the zero, then the year is they're never going to dig themselves out of that hole. And I look at like a middle school student and what they're trying to learn
during those times. Um, number one, that's like the most awkward time of your life. Um, number two, those are the years that they're trying to build those skills of independence and figure out how to go in between classes, how to plan, how to study, how to write down homework. Um, and those are the skills
that we're trying to teach at that level. So, I'm trying to understand what would be the benefit um of removing that from an educator standpoint. Um I >> I mean I get it for the high school like
Yep. Because those grades count towards graduation. For middle school I'm struggling because it would be more it to me in my mind it would be similar to doing the same thing to an elementary school student who again doesn't have the skills yet to do those things independently.
>> Um quite honestly we were not in this position when that decision was made. >> I I'll answer that. So the trying to align prek12 curriculum and align a standard across the system and get some
uh continuity there. Um you know we have we're having a conversation also around weighted grades. Right. >> Right. >> Yep. Uh and so it's what is what is the standard and what is the level set for
our students across the system. um you know challenging all of our kids through the system on a standard is what we're trying to drive to. So I think
that that that's part and parcel to some of the challenges that we have in our system is that there's so much variation in it that we struggle without the resources to
operate in these very in these varied methodologies. So, >> well, and I I would argue that um that's why the systems are into different levels because elementary is vastly different than middle school is vastly different than high school is vastly
different than early childhood and kids are on a specific developmental track for what they can and can't do at those times based on what [snorts] we're also teaching them. So it to me in a sense I feel like we're setting our kids up to fail because that's the time that they're learning those specific set of
skills and we're not giving them the opportunity um for the supports to be able to dig out of that hole. So like okay now we now we put some supports in place. They're out of zero. We're going to put them into um a tier 2 intervention to help with reading and
then we're going to provide some additional homework support. and then they start working and they're making progress, but then they can't dig out of that zero. So then are they even going to see the point of doing it? Because number one, this grade doesn't count and number two, I'm never going to get anything above an F. Now,
>> I just I when I look at the purpose of school and middle school, it's not to earn your degree. Those grades don't count towards graduation. There's no college that looks at those grades and say, "Oh my gosh, you got an F in sixth grade algebra." >> Sorry. Can I just say one thing on that?
And I don't mean to debate least harmful left F and its value, but I mean you could say the flip side of that is are we preparing our kids for high school if we're not fa like putting reality on them in middle school. You know, you have elementary school to figure out how to make your way around. I have a ninth
grader and I have a seventh grader right now. >> I mean, I fully expect her to be up my seventh grader to be able to make it to class on time and figure out her schedule and all of that. Um, you could argue also that with the least harmful, I think it's probably most applicable if you just miss an assignment and you get
a zero. I mean, if you're taking a test and you get a zero, you know, you should be flagged and get additional resources to help you. But if you get a 50%, >> but see, that's exactly my point harmful. But I'm wondering what supports do we have in place because that's the
board's job. like our job is to look at this data and help the district allocate funds for the supports that students need. So, I'm seeing a huge change that was made, but I'm not hearing about any additional like tier one, tier 2, tier three supports for MTSS to the MTSS
piece if that's okay with you. >> Yeah, I would appreciate that. >> Sure. So, to be perfectly frank with you, at the middle level, we've done a lot well at all levels. We've done a lot of work in um identifying our student needs and we have the early warning system in place. We have intervention
support teams in place. So, we've gotten really good at the now what. We're not so good at the so what and that's a resourcing issue. We know we need tier 2 and tier three. Um, we are working on tier one very explicitly right now through the continuous improvement
process of PLC's because of course if you don't have solid tier one instruction aligned to your benchmarks and standards in place, you're going to overrun and flood your tier 2 and tier three systems. And to be honest with you, we don't really have those tier 2
and tier three uh resources currently in place. Now, I'm not suggesting that our middle schools aren't doing anything and everything they can. they've gotten very creative, but it hasn't been um in a systematic response. So, that's part of what looking at this data is about.
>> So, then I would agree like I would say that if we don't have a solid tier 2 intervention or tier three and you take away the least harmful F, then the students have no supports. How >> how is that supporting them though by giving them a 50% if they don't do an
assignment? I feel like you're just masking the problem. And again, I don't know that we need to debate this right now. Um, >> can I jump in? >> Yes, please. >> I think it relates a little bit, but not wholly. Um, what I'm looking at with in particular with middle school, kind of
given this discussion, I'm looking at the fast bridge results, I realize that the fast bridge numbers are comprehensive for the whole district. Um, but let's just say they're are these on average about middle school rates like about 75% of students are
passing math and reading a middle school like generally. >> Do you get what I'm asking? So, we have like the the the comprehensive district K12. Is middle school like basically in line with that or is middle school way off of our average?
>> I don't have that reading for you. >> I'd have to pull it up, but but let's say it is. >> It's close. I would say a little lower. >> So when I'm looking at like the failure rate, that means we have like 5% of students who are failing just because they're not they're not doing they're p
they're at grade level like let's say because we have this gap here. >> So it's about for me it's about how do we teach middle schoolers how to be middle schoolers, how to be, you know, how to prepare them for high school. So it's not about do they know the content necessarily for some of these kids like
and so I'm curious like are we and maybe we're not there yet Nicole like what with what you're saying but I'm curious to know like of the students who are not at grade level for fastbridge the 15% or so are they mirroring the kids who are failing or
>> good question >> are these different issues do we have like a how to be a school or how to be a middle schooler issue and then do we have like a I'm not a grade level issue And are these the same pool, same groups, same kids, or are these there's probably some overlap of course, but >> yeah, I'd say it's probably a yes and
and that's not data that we've disagregated for the purpose of this particular report, >> but certainly an area to continue to look and develop because you're talking about some developmental skills, social, emotional, and academic. And sometimes those two overlap and sometimes they're
not the same skill. So when we're talking MTSS, it's not just academic interventions and math and reading that we're looking for. We also are really needing those social, emotional, and executive functioning, >> right? Because I see like 5% more kids
are failing in theory in middle school than than are proficient. So >> I I would argue then that these should be looked at because I don't think these tell the story of actually how many kids are feeling. And then you get into issues around school engagement as well
like where you know what does absenteeism look like? I mean it's very there's not a one >> I think answer to Amber is um when children are bought to IST the intervention support team um those
individuals that are leading it at the sites as well as the teachers they're looking at educa warehouse uh platform and all of that data is at their fingertips. So to what you're speaking to, they can see where they are with their fastbridge scores,
with their MCA scores, juxosition it to their attendance as well as their failing grades to paint that larger picture for that student. Um, and so that data can be pulled up per student. Um, especially when you have students
that you're concerned that have shown up in an early warning system. So that is available and our staff do look at that at a high level particularly when students are brought forth to an IST team. Okay. >> And Nicole, do you feel like and and
others on the table to get where we need to be with tier 2 and tier three? Do we have the wherewithal and resources to do this or or do we have a gap? >> We have a gap. We have a gap.
>> Okay. So, we can't service these kids the way they should be with our current model and with the current money. >> And that's what I was trying to address is that we don't have those supports built in for when they're flagged that they need additional help >> and that it's kind of like we're holding them accountable for things, but sorry,
now there's nothing to do >> support for you. Right. Right. >> And I think too, Amber, it's when we think of resources, it's many things. It's people to support those interventions. It's professional development so that those individuals are executing an intervention at a high
level. Um it's the resources are they um high quality resources for intervention and do we have the structure. So for example when you think about high school without having a seven period day even if you had all of those other pieces that still puts us you know at a
disadvantage. So it's it's all of those combinations when we're thinking of resources. And I would also say that it I find it interesting that the ELA scores that you mentioned for middle school because during budget cuts we cut
additional ELA time last time. Remember we cut a section of it. So they're getting less time than they did before. I think that those just paint the picture of what's going on. >> Do we have I know we have graduation rates as part of this. Do we have
anything on attendance in terms of >> we do that is under the student engagement part of the um metrics. >> Okay. And whether that's I think that's part of this too is how all of those
things interex. So attendance some of their test scores how they're performing school >> behavior. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think I'm interested in that too. Like this is helpful. appreciate this, >> but this is only a small part of all the metrics, right, that we want to look at. And so,
>> um, and for me, I like to see it all at the same time because these are so interrelated. You can't just say like this is academic, so this is social, right? They're like they're tied together and I want to see how they relate. >> Well, and I know I have to remind me because I know I asked about this before, but we used to have Dr. Baron
who did a lot of the higher level analytics. Where are we in terms of being able to like disagregate the data and look closer at how things are related? >> We have all of those visualizations in on both Tableau and then for the teacher
level in educ. >> Okay. So we could start mixing. >> And then one other question just based on um the high school like failing more than one class and then also kind of related to graduation rates. Do you have
um like of those students like how many of the 12th graders are accessing like pathways for credit recovery to be able to graduate? Like is there a certain percentage of students that is accessing that campus or do we know like how many
of our students are that are in trouble like that are accessing pathways? >> Can you don't do credit recovery at pathways? Are you looking for the number of students? >> I'm looking for credit recovery. Correct. Credit recovery is at the high schools.
>> Is it at the high schools? >> It is. >> Yeah. Okay. But then do we have that like of the students that are using that resource to um to be able to graduate? >> We could get that number. We don't have that here. Yes. I appreciate the inclusion of the seven-year graduation rate just because
it's part of the um um and I'm forgetting the M DCC. What is it? MCC. >> Oh yeah, >> not MTSS. >> District the collaborative. Um there was a lot of discussion in that last I was last year
or the year before about just students taking different paths and if you've been to the pathways graduation it's such a really enjoyable experience to see how students have come back from the system for a variety of reasons and come to graduation. Well, and I think it's
important to note that when you look at the four, five, six, and sevenyear graduation rates, and you look at our shifting dynamics, our growth, and then our dynamics, our increase of EL learners and our uh increase in free and reduced lunch in special ed, there are a
lot of reasons, very valid reasons, why students would take more than four years to graduate. And they are um by law able to remain in school up to the age of 21 in order to do that. So, I think looking at just the four-year graduation rate
doesn't tell you um who is graduating because it will take some kids longer. If they're a recently arrived student, it might take longer for them to acquire English language, academic English language to graduate. And so, we have a plan for that.
I do have one other sorry, one one other question about the concurrent enrollment. um those numbers look really strong and I know some I I know we've kind of talked about um the opportunities at the two different high schools and has there
been any additional discussion about advancing some of those opportunities? Yeah, we have um Sandy and I have both met with um Southwest State uh University and the University of Minnesota to look at um what additional partnerships we could have um on either
end. Do >> you think we'll I mean to that point, do you think we'll be adding additional courses next year in the upcoming program of studies or >> um [laughter] Go ahead. >> This is a good time. Yeah, this is a good time to visit about that. Um we
have TAC next Monday. So, um, we have a couple of you who represent, um, I believe it's Carly, um, and Eden Paul. Um, and, um, the areas that we're going to be discussing, one will be college and career readiness as well as the program of studies. Um, we've put a
pause on new courses for the 20 627 school year. um because we really want to make sure that we have our processes our processes in place as it relates to the standardsbased review and to ensure that those courses are aligned to those
academic standards um and that we have a process where teachers um are suggesting or maybe proposing a course and right now we don't have those systems in place. So, we will be bringing um forward um in the Friday board notes um
about our next steps with the program of studies where we are with that. We'll be bringing it forth to um the board in the consent agenda on December 6th and then sharing more at TAC um on Monday on the 8th. >> Can the students go back and forth
between the high schools for those given the differences of opportunities or No, >> they can. We have transportation, but I'll be honest with you, um, we find that that doesn't happen terribly often because of the compacted schedule. A student is having to make a choice
between leaving and missing class, arriving late. It's just not enough time. So, it is, yes, the opportunity exists, but the reality and practicality of it means that a lot of students choose not to do that. So, >> because how many CU courses do we have
right now at the two high schools? >> One at North, >> correct? Correct. >> Okay, >> you got it. >> And that's like significantly fewer than surrounding districts, right? >> Yes. And there are a lot of districts
that for example, Ed Dina has been primarily AP for years and years and they have stayed with AP, but they are also asking a lot of these questions as well. And it really just depends on the nature and the need of the district. you typically find concurrent enor uh
concurrent enrollment was more popular in more um rural districts at one point. Um but then that started to switch when um the office of higher education shifted the requirements for your teachers and it became a staffing issue. So it's a very nuanced and complicated
issue and we have an opportunity here to really investigate it and research it carefully and then choose it. I've been in districts that kind of went willy-nilly with it and then all of a sudden you have 19 courses offered through four different enroll uh four different metriculating universities and that gets really complicated and
convoluted. So, >> and I would just add as a little bit of history um two decades ago we sort of made a commitment that we were going to be an AP district and so because a lot of times districts couldn't resource
both at least not to the same degree. Um, and so we invested, it's very expensive to train teachers in AP. The resources, um, because you can only use certain resources that AP deems appropriate for the classes tend to be
more expensive than in a traditional class. And so, um, over a period of time, we really ex extensively expanded our AP offerings in the district. And so I think we're in a space now too where it's time to look at like where we are
with AP and where we are with concurrent enrollment and is it some sort of a yes and which is usually what it is to meet the needs of your your students and then how do we resource and support that from a from a budget standpoint. So um so I think there you know they're definitely
really good things to investigate. I mean, we've seen concurrent enrollment really sort of explode over the past five or six years. Um, district looking for [clears throat] other opportunities besides AP to offer college credit. And
we've seen, it's sort of rebounding a little bit, but we've seen a decrease in the number, not a significant one, um, in the number of, uh, universities that just will just accept the credit now for AP. And so, that is a whole another
layer. So, we're we've been watching that for a couple of years to see if it's is this going to be a trend where universities are really going to pull back from AP because then the benefit to the student is not there in terms of earning the college credit, we'd see more kids doing PSO or more districts
moving to concurrent enrollment. So, you know, all of these trends, they sort of fluctuate a little bit and so trying to keep a pulse on that. Um but I would definitely say and you two please jump in. Um from your training and investigation, the concurrent enrollment piece has really it seems that districts
are moving more towards concurrent enrollment and and maybe a little bit away from AP. >> Yeah, we have um about over 1,800 students that are involved in AP coursework. So you can see exactly what Dr. McDonald said. We did move that
direction. As uh Sandy and I are doing investigation around concurrent enrollment, we are learning more about the credentiing student uh teachers need to be able to teach those classes in partnership with that university and each university that or college that you
partner with has a different standard for that credentiing. And so that's what we've been >> and even within the organization the university from course to course there's different credentiing. So it's not even the same across the board is what we found out with our partnership with
Southwest. So the same credentiing isn't required for say teaching a math class as it might be for a psychology class. Um and they have different options. So it's it's it's unique. Do you notice any trends, and sorry for going down this rabbit hole, where
schools maybe have a greater concurrent enrollment offering that they have fewer students taking PSO courses? >> Yes, >> I in a previous district because it was a more rural district, >> we had a huge number of students that
were taking PSO classes and so concurrent enrollment was brought in as a way to recapture those students. So, and the data was very clear that that helped students remain on campus. That being said, there wasn't a robust college credit
bearing course in general. So, I think there was just a general need for credit bearing courses. Um, and concurrent enrollment was chosen to fill the void. It wasn't the same AP versus concurrent um place that we're in now. So, it
really depends. >> Sure. on the district. >> I I just wonder how many from a savings perspective if we could keep kids from going PCO, keep them in our schools and so we're not shipping that >> shipping those funds over to the different schools they're attending. So
>> I would also argue that developmentally is probably better for kids to stay in high schools. >> Yep. I would agree. >> Yeah. Well, and I think too um Carly the when you have AP and concurrent enrollment options in the you will
always have a segment of the port small segment of the population that is ready for college like they're they're just going to go they're going to do their thing no matter what we offer that's their path and so you know obviously you want to provide that for students that are ready um but with PSO
we don't that's we don't not how students have access because you have to get yourself there. So if you don't have transportation or you don't have a parent that can take you, you don't have access. So the one of the benefits of AP and concurrent is that because it's
on-site, then all students have equal opportunity to be able to access college level coursework. And so I think that's another important thing to consider um as we're, you know, making some determinations about what's direction
we're going to go in to best um support our students. So >> and generally, I mean, anecdotally, um you retain your leaders on campus. Instead of them leaving, they stay on your campus. Um
and that makes a big difference. I have a question back on the packet. Um 25.8% proficiency in science. >> They changed it this year. >> It it is a new um science MCA test based
on new standards. >> Okay. >> And so um we are um at the secondary we are a little bit under the state average. at elementary we are above uh the state average. And so at the
secondary level we have been working with our um science teachers and all of our secondary teachers across the board on our standardsbased review and making sure that they know and understand their standards. They're receiving
professional development in uh in the case of science in 3D and >> so we have you talk about that. Yeah. Um Robbie Peters, who's one of our secondary teaching and learning coordinators, is doing a phenomenal job. He is meeting um with those science
teachers. In fact, he had a group in here today um going over the three-dimensional um how do you develop three-dimensional assessments. And when we talk about three-dimensional learning in science, it's not just about the content of science, which we call the core disciplinary ideas. It's about how
do you deliver it through the practices and the crosscutting concepts. So today teachers were in um and really evaluating what does a good assessment look like? How does it align to those standards and to those three-dimensional learning and to ensure that it is at the
right level of rigor. Um when I was in um in the area today as Robbie was leading, they were really looking at an assessment and analyzing it to see um how it fit with those standards and to look at it through an exemplar lens and to really think about the questioning
that we ask students to be very specific um as it aligns to what that level of rigor is. Um and so those are some of the pieces that we're doing at the secondary level is um going back and maybe um revisiting some holes that we have as it relates to the phases in the
standardsbased review practice particularly in phase one. Do we have a deep understanding of those key shifts and concepts of these new standards and how do we apply that? Um one piece to keep in mind is that across the state um the scores were poor. they were not
where even the whole state would want them to be. Um we anticipate that there is a dip when we do have new standards. Um and the science standards were um to be implemented fully um last spring. One of the things that you will see with our
implementation of the standards is the ELA's full implementation because we have new standards with those as well. So we'll have an MCA4 with the ELA's um which will be assessed um in the spring of 2026. So if um if that pattern
follows, we would expect potentially to see a dip with those ELAs. And that has been the trend across the state. Um but I do think um a shining place is that um at the elementary level, we're um 10.5 above the state average. Um which is is
is considerable considering across the state that the scores are are poor. I would just like to add that our secondary teachers in um uh collaboration with teaching and learning and our principles and assistant
principles helping to lead that process have been doing an outstanding job on our professional devel development days to come together to uh review their standards, put together a scope and sequence that's alike across both uh uh
schools so that um all three schools so that we have a guaranteed and viable curriculum and then they're working together to um work on their assessments as well. As Sandy had mentioned, it's not just limited to science, but it's across the board. All of our secondary
teachers are working together in their PLC's across district to accomplish that. And it is just remarkable to see that work happening in our district. >> That's great. >> The secondary science test is biology, right? If I'm remembering things
correctly, >> what what year of high school do we do biology? >> Nine or 10? >> Soph. >> So, my I was talking to my mom about science sports. [laughter] She was a free year biology, right? And so, she she was explaining
[clears throat] that a challenge with um the sequencing is that you test before the end of the school year, of course, right? And so in order to get all the standards in before the test, you have to accelerate kind of the the pace in which you're teaching biology if you're teaching in the 10th grade year.
>> So I'm curious like how how we're reacting to that and that's not a new problem. But and then I mean I do think it's important to recognize that I appreciate the elementary being higher. That's great. And hopefully that will that will continue to hold. But our
science scores were 10 points lower than the state average. And I just don't feel like that there's no reason why Lakeville should be performing at that level for for science. And I'm aware that like our our um curriculum wasn't aligned with the state standards.
That that sentence that we're not aligned with state standards is incredibly problematic [snorts] to me. Um I feel like that's a failure at like the teacher level, the department chair level, the principal level, teaching and learning, all the way to the top, right? like at all these levels, no one thought, wow, we're not teaching what
the test is asking. And so, it's good to hear what's happening. And I just I think like the pressure should be strong to get that up to snuff by this spring test. Um because I just don't feel like there's a good
that that's a fixable problem. Um whether [snorts] or not kids can perform is a different thing. They're great. There's lots of variables with that, but I was not impressed to hear that we're just not at the level that we're supposed to be as a district with with our curriculum. >> So, what I think I'm hearing you say is
like you're looking for a sense of urgency. >> Yeah. >> And I would say that that's all I'm seeing is urgency right now. >> Yeah. I also want to share that um what we see from the MCAs is a systems level problem. It's not the teacher problem.
Um it's the system. we didn't have the system set up for those teachers to be successful to get the professional development that they needed to best teach our students. And so, um, we're fixing that system. Um, Sandy has
brought up, um, her the system that she had at the elementary school and has brought that to secondary and they are really growing and flourishing in that. our um secondary principles are so pleased that we're all on the same page and the momentum moving forward is it's
it's fun to see when you are there on a professional development day and you walk into the classrooms and you see our principles and assistant principles leading the work of our different subject areas and the work that those um
teachers are are doing. they really do have a sense of urgency >> and I would say too like what I have seen transform this year versus previously is that I'm seeing a commitment to the PLC process which is your main vehicle for continuous
improvement at that classroom level around benchmarks and I'm seeing that from teachers um I'm seeing that from our site leaders and it's kind of been supercharged by Sandy and Tracy coming in and aligning the standardsbased
review process to that and we're kind of really seeing traction in a way that I have not seen before. >> I think another piece of the standardsbased review process um is resource adoption. It's in phase three. >> Yes,
>> phase three. Um we um are a little bit behind in adopting resources or maybe we were looking at resources that weren't quite aligned to the standards. I don't know if you'd like to expand on that a little bit. I think to um particularly
at the the secondary level um due diligence wasn't done in phase one and two to really understand what those key shifts and concepts were before moving to a resource. And what we found is that some of the resources that were maybe
being considered or maybe even purchased or looked at um were not necessarily aligned to those standards in a robust way. Um, and as Tracy mentioned, that's that's a systems piece. Um, we really want decisions being made on best
practice and evidence-based research, not necessarily opinion um, as to, you know, this particular resource is shiny and it's new. We really need to dig in deeply and you need to make informed decisions and you're not able to make informed decisions if you really don't understand deeply those standards and
those shifts that are required to reach those standards. So, we're trying to look at where those holes are, particularly at the secondary level. How do we fill in those gaps and how do we move forward? Um, and again, I want to give great kudos to the coordinators.
They're doing fantastic work. Um, in fact, one of our coordinators, um, who lead some of the social studies pieces. Um, as the teachers are now going robustly through the phases, they're like, maybe we shouldn't have considered this particular resource. It isn't really minded. And this is coming from
the teachers because now they're being supported in this work and have that professional development and the time to really look um deeply. Tracy, I I know we're going into facilities next uh which is actually a
discussion about a lot of money. [snorts] Um that being said, curriculum very important. I I I overheard a conversation one time that if we had 18 to20 million dollars for
curriculum, we could turn this thing around. Is it is that a fair statement? Is it a erroneous statement? Is what kind of statement is that? Well, I I would say as um Sandy and I are going through some uh zerobased budgeting and looking at
what we really need, we talked about um seven period day. Um that would really help at our secondary to be able at our high schools to be able to offer intervention time to be able to offer um uh additional coursework for our
students or additional opportunities for our students. um interventions. Um as as uh Nicole was saying, we are lacking in tier 2 and tier three interventions and time and people uh resources for our um
for our students. And at the elementary um we are lacking in resources as well. So um 18 to 20 million should do it. >> [laughter] >> Okay, let's let's let's be let's be careful with that because that that that
uh I I think it's a this is a wonderful conversation, but I think we need to be a little more precise >> about what we're talking about. Um and not just say 18 to 20 million on curriculum is going to solve. It's not
going to. Um we need to be real precise about I owe you that. We are working on that. uh as a as a staff team to to look at what are these what are to director
Baker's statement of what are the supports that are really in play here to move the needle on that. So this this is the conversation and we are working to
like put those numbers together. >> Good. Thank you. >> Well, what I guess I'm curious what does that mean? Like putting them together for >> Well, we talked about curriculum. We talked about intervention. So how many people is that? What does that cost? I
just mean for when we're talking about going for a levy or a referendum or are you talking about in in what way are you talking about that? >> Well, we know that the that the gened formula of the state of Minnesota is not
going to provide us the the funding that we need. So, we would be talking about future levy potential. But that's a bigger conversation. First of all, what's what is the need? So needs assessment, what does that mean in
dollars? And then how do you go about pursuing that? >> And and I see Michael, correct me if I'm wrong, and we started talking about this I think two meetings ago. When when you
look at facilities, I I wrote this down, Lucas, because I I think it's a a really good statement that you made. Oh, >> it it's not how many students we need to fit in school, but what kinds of learning do we want to make possible?
and and and in essence what that means to me is there's an integrated strategy or there should be an integrated strategy >> between facilities between curriculum between um 601 which is which the board
is responsible for for curriculum and instructional policy and and all that to me those three things are are intertwined and and Michael I agree throwing 18 or 20 million Yeah, I we were half half joking there.
>> I get animated about money a little bit, >> but but what I'm my my comment is are we looking strategically at the three these three pieces and looking at
the amount of money to do what we're talking about here, which which ultimately boils down to one thing. How do we get better academic outcome? I mean, blow the smoke away. That's That's what we're all here for. >> Um the rest of our mission. Sorry.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One piece of four. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Just want to emphasize that. >> Um Sandy and I and Nicole are working through what a long range vision looks like for teaching and learning. Um because if Lucas is just planning facilities out without that long range
range vision for teaching and learning then we're just planning buildings to fit people rather than >> there in lies my point everything that we talk about a seven period day when we talk about interventions when we talk about concurrent enrollment versus PSO we need
spaces to fit those students when we look at our career and college readiness and how we're moving forward with at what do we want Lakeville area schools to be and look like five years from now. And so that's the foundation that we're beginning to plan. We have um strategic
objectives and action items that are in alignment to our um strategic plan as well as in alignment to the metrics that we have. And we're beginning to flush those pieces out. We have a small work group that's um beginning to come together, a small steering committee to
look at what do we want our um high schools to be five years from now. And as we grow that workg group and we begin to develop that vision, we'll branch out into um bringing community members and business members onto that um committee
um to give us some input. We will actually be working with our uh TAC or teaching and learning advisory committee um to bring some ideas forth um to help us with that long range planning. But you're exactly right, we have to combine long range planning and teaching and
learning with our facilities vision and with a lacking teaching and learning vision. Um it makes it difficult for Lucas to be able to do his work. I think that was I know I expressed a lot of frustration in our last meeting and that was part of it is I don't feel like there's this collaboration amongst the
departments to figure out how to all bring that vision together because if we go to a le for a levy for buildings and we go for a levy later for teaching and learning one might pass and one might not and instead how do we create a vision for our community where we are
bringing these things together that everyone can buy into and support both of those things. Um, how long do you think your plan, your vision is going to take to do that? [laughter] >> Uh, well, we wanted it done yesterday, but no.
>> Um, I 100% agree. Um, as we get rolling, I am hoping that we have something um together by the end of this school year so that we can roll things out next school year. >> Thank you. >> I guess a question related question
then. Have you been in communication with Lucas and his team as they're discussing the expansion plans and other options that are on the table? >> Yes. Yes, we've been part of the facilities meetings. >> I did have a question for Bill because
$18 million came up last week. You discussed I think our tax capacity that we have right now is only like 5 million on the operating side, right? >> That's correct. >> So, yeah. So, we're kind of limited. >> 18. >> What's that? We can't do 18. >> Can't do 18. Can't do 18. So, how far
can you get with five? [laughter] >> Give it to us and we'll let you know. >> Yeah. Well, I mean that that is the challenge, right? In the resource constraint environment, it's like, >> yeah, >> where are you going to put the money? >> And it's more than just the stuff with curriculum, you know, it's it's the
pieces that go with evidence-based practices and professional development. and do we have um staff that is able to provide some coaching and instructional models in those classrooms? Those are some pieces that were missing in our
system. Um and ensuring that we have time within our day to do that, particularly at the secondary level. So, it's all of those things that come to together um that really is the synergy that we need for teaching and learning. And I think Nicole said it uh too before
that um [clears throat] knowing that we do have financial constraints and u people resource constraints. Our our principles are trying to be uh creative with how they're providing interventions or how they're providing time to support
students um within those uh constraints. And so we're also trying to look at different ways that we can provide uh support for our students within what we our existing framework. I have another question on related to
the EL work. Um it's from last spring on page three. um where we have the proficiency rate for um EEL students and it says we want to evaluate the program model effectiveness as as our district
continues to grow with our EL population and knowing that we're not able to meet even our own guidelines of minutes served for kids right now just because we have not enough teachers and too many students. Um, I see this as an area where if we want to really move the the
overall numbers, we need to focus attention here and support. And I'm curious, is there any early early ideas coming out of E um that we think would be better a better way to resource or
additional resource needed to to support those students? >> Sorry, no. Um I mean I think we are definitely taking uh a look at just the program model and
how we are servicing um our EL students and the differences between level one, level two and level threes and looking at surrounding districts um and MBE guidance for um kind of what best practice is um for serving each of the
different different levels. Um so I I mean I can I can say that and that yes and we are working in tandem with um the teaching and learning department um to help strengthen the overall system of that as well as um
special education. So it is a collaboration. For instance, we um you know, we have a lot of multilingual learners who may not even be receiving services, but that doesn't mean that they don't have tier one instructional needs. That's an area
where we we need to really look at how are we embedding some of those instructional practices in the general education classroom. It can it's not only on the backs of our ELT teachers. So that is a conversation that has started between our departments and
really partnering on that and how can we also maybe bring ANI funds which are coming up for the new plan this year. How can we maybe support alongside that? >> Any other questions? Good to move on.
>> Thank you. What was I? >> Everyone's still good. Keep rolling. Facilities vision 2035. >> Facilities vision 2035. Okay. >> You good, sir?
>> Yeah. Oh, >> yeah. We didn't have a >> Yeah. So um the read ahead packet that you guys have had is kind of where we sit. I think we also shared with you the educator uh
data so that you could uh review that input. Um, I guess I'll attempt to cut to the chase here a little bit about um, and it goes back to our last conversation. The
biggest challenges uh, as uh, as Paul talked about was how do you how do you bring the three major factors together and then shape a long range plan. Um, so as I assess the the situation here with
regard to facilities, our most pressing situation or need is to have space for our middle schools. Um, the bigger question and the bigger
longer range plan uh obviously needs to be predicated on a TNL vision. Um, and I think that takes more time to develop. I think there's more stakeholders that have to be engaged. If we look at the timeline uh of where
we're at, and I'll speak for the time since I've returned, October, there's a a levy on the docket, literally. Um followed by a uh situation
where we had an operating levy and a capital levy. Um, and the board chose to renew the operating levy on a board vote and we have to go and had to go to the
community for our capital levy and we're fortunate that our community supported that. Um, now we're faced with uh we have to fit students into our middle school system.
Uh and that's imminent. Uh that could have been predicted in 22, that could have been predicted in 23. Um so we are where we are. um
a renewal campaign uh with an articulation of an immediate um bond referendum or doing that in tandem together at the same time. I I chose not to do that.
Um, what I would recommend and where I see where we're at is a bond levy for fitting our students into our middle schools
with the follow-on conversation of, okay, what's the longer range plan going to be? I don't know how you would um do something more robust in the timeline
that we're in right now. And I think we also have to look at what our levy schedule is, which I've shared. um because you could very easily find our
scenario being uh levy fatigue for our community. Now, I'm basing my statements on my assessment of my experience in this community that we ask for what we need and we
predicate that on what our community tells us their tax tolerance is. We ran into this challenge uh with elementary several years ago and the strategy we pursued at the time was
additions and high view elementary. People can debate whether that was the right choice or not. I think it has served us well. my assessment. Um, and I think that's
where we are with middle school as the situation has presented itself and I think it's my obligation to confront and attempt to resolve that and that's why I make that recommendation. It does not
solve [clears throat] the whole problem. [snorts] Uh, you know, we have to talk about a seven period day at high school. We have to talk about um how and what we need uh in terms of interventionists, tutors, special education
uh and EL support in our we we spent the day today uh most of the afternoon today or this morning talking about our EL program and our EL needs in the context of Northstar uh and the Minnesota
Department of Education where we are with that. Um, so I I think that again given the situation we're in that a um a bond for
additions is our best option. Now, I know some people have talked about another middle school, and I'm not pushing back on that whatsoever. I will say that if there's two courses of action with another
middle school um and there's costs that that are pretty significant because you're talking operating costs for staffing that potentially under one scenario and that is you have a fourth middle school. You have to do land acquisition for that and then you have
to build the building and that's a 36-month program for sure. Um when you talk about staffing that you're talking, I think uh at some measure an operating levy um to support that um that scenario.
Um trying to do that in a special election in May I think is a bridge too far. Um, if you did a another middle school and pulled one offline as another course of
action, um, you know, which one do you pull offline and then what do you backfill it with? And there's different ways you could do that. you could remove the the community uh lease, the building lease
we have here, uh and realize some some uh reduced cost uh with regard to that. But you would have to do tenant improvement uh on a middle school that you're pulling offline to uh fit say uh
a district office, a community ed facility. Maybe you could add something else in there in ALC potentially or uh Southside if you if you went with something like Maguire, you could take uh uh and put early childhood or
something as well in there. That's those are potentialities. Uh and and I know those are things that have been talked about, but without a longer vision, you know, does that work or doesn't that work? um that scenario still is going to cost you
um with regard to TI and with regard to you know obviously building a new school. Um so I' I've run those scenarios in my mind and I've tried to look at where we
are literally. Um we have an other challenge uh as well. Uh [clears throat] we have to figure out the u boundary adjustments uh in and the we have a decision that has to be made in January in order to
set the conditions to do our staffing properly uh for the upcoming school year and the fiscal year 27 budget. And that's a big deal. Um, so I think that as much as we want to
shape tomorrow, we're kind of in a scenario here where we have to deal with the practical issues that um are set before us with regard to we have students coming and we have to fit them. uh and as as much as I
know that's not the best solution or not the best thing situation to be in that's the situation we are in. So that's how I see the problem. Um that would lend us to doing additions uh and the course of
action that we kind of talked about there. But I also think we can preserve the opportunity to bring in more stakeholders to shape that longer vision and accomplish that as well and and do that better. And if you look at the
schedule, the the first opportunity that we have to go to our voters on with our current schedule is 2033. That doesn't mean and and I think director Thompson who's not here did bring up you know the the uh renewal in
27 and the amount that that is and maybe the board wants to do something different than than uh you did with this last one and and I recognize that but those that schedule really is driving a lot of what our our uh latitude is with
regard to going to our taxpayers and asking them uh for support. And if you're doing a campaign, uh, which, you know, it falls a lot mostly on me to go out and talk about this, I want to be able to talk about what our need is and
articulate that to our voters and minimize the tax impact on our voters. And maybe that's myopic on my part or a bias on my part, but that's what I've learned about being in this community is that tax tolerance is a big deal and we
should ask for what we need and um that's what our current need is. >> Do we have the results of the survey yet? >> No. And and I don't have that either. I I'm speaking obviously candidly about how I've assessed the situation. Um, and
I don't have the benefit of the of the results yet um, from our community survey, but that'll confirm or deny what I'm trying to articulate here tonight. Um, but I'm just trying to appreciate,
you know, the the tax issue and not overstate it, but also not understate it. And uh I do really want to get at what I think board members are expecting and that is you know what is the bigger picture and what is the the
vision that it drives and supports our facilities and I really think there's more stakeholders that need to be brought into that process uh as we go forward here. So trying to deal with that as well. Thank you for the opportunity to say
that. >> So, I know we haven't had a chance to really discuss a lot of this and our opinions on it. And so, that was kind of the intent of this to see where everybody's at. Do we continue plowing forward on this path? And at some point, we have to make a decision if we're
going to do this in May. Um, if you have questions, I have asked Michael about timing wise, like does it have to be in May? Can we extend it out a little bit more for discussions? And there's concern about the build schedule and apparently we have to give um MDE
that if you'd like >> a six-month review period before we can actually so if people have questions about that he can explain it cuz >> do you want me to just kind of review that timeline for everybody or >> is that helpful? >> I mean there there is a timeline I guess
and we can provide it maybe Friday notes unless people want to hear it right now. But I guess I'm curious on the board to see what >> what you guys think where you're at on this process. >> Can I just play out one scenario? >> This is not going to be a popular scenario. I already know that it but
it's my kid is one of them that would be affected by this. So I fully appreciate that. In looking at the data, I don't have it up in front of me, but if I'm recalling things correctly, we could fit everyone in the middle schools
as is and they would all be similar to Century at the moment. They'd be very full. And I I fully recognize that and it would be like two years of like you got too definitely have too many kids but it could if centuries work making it
work right now. Could there be ever a situation where we make do to hold out for a long for a bigger plan? And I don't know if that's a good option or not, but it's
something that I've been thinking about just like instead of just like being like, "Yep, we need to do additions. We just need to build and add right away." Do we have the ability I know it'd be crowded to like take a breath and um
manage for two years? I know you're like thinking like this nuts, but >> Well, I'm I'm not thinking you're nuts at all. I mean, I I you [laughter] know, the the reality the truth, too, is if if the if we do, let's just say we go for a
bond and and we're going to do additions. I realize that's not where everybody's at. >> Um it could fail, >> right? And then we'd have to do this >> and then we would be there. >> Yeah. >> Um but I again, it's well, I'll just leave it at that. I mean that that's a
that's not an unrealistic uh scenario for us. And >> to to your point like I've thought about that too because um I get that the class that's coming up is big, right? But then
I look at our numbers and the enrollment is slowing enough that once [snorts] this class is through, right? My concern is that if we do the short-term solution now, by the time that's in place, that class will be at the high school or be
getting ready for the high school. And that same class is going to cause the same problem there. >> Well, that's >> and I don't want to be reactionary like I want to be thoughtful and painful. Um, with the with the taxpayers's money and then with also the resources that we need. So, um,
I I I see what you're saying like and I'm not for or against anything yet. I'm just like thinking >> but the problem is you also have to assume growth too you know looking at the developments that are going in and if you don't plan for that growth you know then we could be in a situation where every school is like high or like
high view or century right now >> for us are low then >> and then it's too late and you want to talk about being reactive then we'd be reactive right >> um what what do you mean by short-term fix just expansions or >> I was thinking if we just boundary adjustments >> the short-term fix and just fix the
middle school issue and add the expansions on right now. >> Then we'll just be finishing that and then that class will be getting ready for the high school and the high schools are going to have the same issue too. So my thought around it was I I do feel like the middle schools obviously
there's there's an issue there and we need to figure out how we're going to address that. But my my thought was could we access the land that's by south and have a career center and a middle and add on the middle schools at the same time, right? So that way we're kind
of taking care of both issues for the same class that's coming through because that career center would pull some of the students from both high schools into that, right? And we have a very robust chamber of commerce that I think would support like career pathways and different things that we could do that
we've wanted to do that we don't have the space for like on our our vision list that we have here. I I see your vision. I feel it. Um but it would also take care of the space for Pathways Academy because I don't feel like that's a great student space and then would
provide more space back into um Kenwood where they're at now. Um, [snorts] I just I just think like there's there's two issues there with the same class. >> The fourth grade it's a fourth grade class right now. So by 2028 when these would theoretically be done, they'd be
entering into middle school, >> right? But then it still takes three years to build, right? >> When they go to the high school, you'd be like, you'd be planning for them every three years essentially. >> Yes, that's what I'm saying. >> Well, that's that's part of phase two, which that is a must-solve problem for
the high schools. there is going to be a capacity issue of some shape, form or fashion that will need to be solved, >> right? >> That starts essentially in the fall of 2030. And if you kind of recall back to the slides on November 11th, that build,
you know, design build, this conversation will occur sometime in 2027. So we can go through that cycle to sir your point, Michael's point and and Tracy's with the long-term vision. Maybe
that is where you are taking I'll just call it a big bite out of the apple in terms of we have a vision for ALC that we can see and clearly articulate. We have a vision for special education population for all the populations and
then we take that bigger bite of the apple in the 27 time frame that will you know in a sense solve a lot of your problems that we kind of see now but don't need to be solved right now.
>> What needs to be solved right now to Michael's point is the middle school capacity problem. And if you look at if you look over time and you go in the out years and recognizing that that gets a little bit um you know less accurate but
we continue to grow and so there'll be there'll continue to be a need for that middle school population for that capacity and to your points it may change it may go up and it may go
down. If it goes up in terms of need, reaction time is at a minimum two years. Even if you were to say go right now, it's a two-year lead time. So, by adding some capacity to our middle school, you're going to solve you're going to
you're going to have enough space to account for that unexpected growth either up or down in your middle schools. Taking a minimalist approach will allow you the space uh in terms of time and money to kind of look at that
vision, the strategy for all the other things and then take a more deliberate you know bite out of that apple when the time comes in my estimation probably in 27. Um >> but she could do it with multiple questions. Like, see, that's the other
thing I'm saying. Like, do we >> do we take the bigger bite of the apple now, or do we risk levy fatigue and say, "We're just going to do the additions now. Now, we're going to do this, now we're going to do that by doing like multiple questions and say like question one is just the additions on the middle
school. And question two is, do we want to build the career pathway center at the same time that we're doing the middle school editions?" So, that way this class is taken care of for quite a while and we don't have to come back to the taxpayers for a while. I'm just saying like we can be creative in not only how we frame those questions and
the way that we put them on ballot, but then also in how we're planning for this specific issue. >> Yeah, I would I would say that's that's um that makes a lot of sense. Um I want to also get back to the conversation
about our middle schools and if we do nothing. So my biggest concern with Century is able to handle this. I don't think Ken would the common spaces. >> I don't think they could handle the
thousand. Um, you know, maybe you can jam them into the classrooms, but the cafeteria, um, >> we'd have to pay some like people to direct traffic >> and the gym I think would be highly problematic for us. Um, you do what you
have to do. Um and and I'm not disputing that, but um kind of back to your uh statement around, you know, you could shape two questions um and it's still and you can even do questions
that are contingent, >> right? So, uh, you know, if there's other things than an addition, I just want to be careful about what problems are we solving and what
conditions can we set for the future and bringing those things in alignment and and doing that work like this work can't stop, >> right? >> It has to keep plowing and keep going.
uh so that we fit into the levy schedule and we fit into what our community growth is and being very iterative about looking at all those pieces like how many people are moving in, what's our enrollment and
and just being vigilant about that and bringing that to the board consistently and constantly. but shaping uh again I think there's more stakeholders that need to to be brought into that bigger vision
um to build that the coalition of support that we need for a a bigger opportunity and I think there's we we need the time built in to do that. Lucas and and Michael, I I know there's
not a money tree, but I I I think I think what I've picked up from your conversations [snorts] are um your option would rather be the three extensions, the extensions to the three middle schools versus building a a brand
new school. I I just want to be clear on Yes. You >> two are I I don't need I don't necessarily want him to commit to that. I I'm not suggesting that you commit. I I just want to get a sense of where you're thinking. >> That's what I'm thinking. >> Okay. That's what I thought. Lucas, you too.
>> Am I allowed to answer? [laughter] >> Go ahead. I I just I just don't want, you know, I'm the one throat to choke. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I concur. >> All right. Thank you. >> Sorry. Do you have a followup? >> No, I'm good. And and it goes back to just making sure that we're creating
maximum flexibility in the future for when those conditions present themselves, we can act on it. You know, high school problem set, all the other things that go on there, unexpected growth, uh those types of
things. Just so the board's clear, by the 16th of that meeting, we'll have to agree one, yes, we're going to go forward um with a bond referendum. Two, this is the dollar amount based on
the different items on the list that we want to pursue. Correct. And then if we want to ask multiple questions or separate it, we can. Um but we'll do we even do we have to know that by 16 the multiple questions? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah, to what you just said about
the packaged items that would be included. >> I I don't know if we're going to unpack that tonight. I would >> I'm I'm I can get behind the middle school thing. I'm not and and I get there's a there's a political will here
and in grouping things to get your voter base out to get them excited. I think the laundry list is way too long. Um, I'd rather pair this back and do what we need and save our wants for a different time.
>> So, that was one of my questions because I don't know, do you guys I sent you this list of the different estimates? Um, what is like the the needs list if we had to pair it down like this is what we need? >> It's the middle school expansion,
>> but what parts of that? because there are many parts of the expansion that we probably [snorts] don't need all of them, right? >> Well, it if you you need the spaces that the problem is is the the the seating, the spaces, the classrooms is tied to
>> basically your common spaces. So, like your kitchens and your special ed and all the other little things that go together. So, you can't say, "Well, let's just build the classrooms." Because then the problem you're going to have is the kitchen cafeteria line will be out the door.
>> Yeah. But for instance, yeah, auditorium, multi-purpose band, inquir room, metal shop, um locker infrastructure. I'm not exactly sure what that is. >> Oh, maybe that's a locker room, >> right? >> And storm shelter. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And so some of that's tied to to how we rearrange the space. So you're like for example in Meguire you're getting rid you're using the metal shop to build the cafeteria. So you're just basically replacing the metal shop. >> Do we need $4.5 million worth of additional parking lot?
>> Yes. Because it's a city requirement. >> So I can't as much as I want to get away from parking lots. It's a city requirement and they will they will be out there counting trees and parking spots. >> So that's my I guess that's my question on the list of each individual space within the schools as proposed. what's
our needs versus our we'd like to have this list. >> There are there are no no wants in that list. >> Well, we can break that down. I can I can give you a read ahead on that. Um are you saying there's no these all stay
so that the sites are the terms being used as equitable. But if we didn't if we said tennis courts can wait. >> Well, that's not a mandatory thing, right? That's what I'm I'm wondering too because the facilities list had like the
stadium upgrades and other things on that. >> I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm just talking strictly the middle schools. Some of that stuff like the tennis courts may have to move because I have to put a road in there to fix the parking lot issue. So, it's kind of >> got it.
>> You know, one one is required is the other, if you will. Now in terms of the other items outside the middle school. So item number one middle schools expansion and then all that other stuff those were identified in the task force
>> as needs in the you know from the community. Are they mustd dos to solve the problem? >> Yeah. >> Okay. But the community has identified those as needs, stadium upgrades, etc. that you see there, you know, numbers
two through, I believe it's um it's two through seven. Those are, you know, not mustds, but that number one is to Michael's point, we have middle school students that are running out of space come the fall of 2028. So,
>> well, and the other thing, not that I'm trying to plug stadiums, but thinking a little ahead, uh, you know, one of the challenges that we're kind of came in sideways was, uh, we're going to be doing graduations at stadiums now. Um,
>> yeah. >> So, that's a that's a thing >> that's been determined. Well, we're we're as a staff, we're going to bring that uh forward as Yeah, it's but that's that's the staff action based on what I've shared with you. We're trying to
figure out >> I know that but there's other options. Mhm. >> I mean, >> so one question I have, um, how many students are we able to I should quote the the numbers and everything, but
beyond that fourth current fourth grade class, how many additional students are we able to get into these middle schools with the expansions? And is there a time frame in the projections that we think
we're going to run up in terms of being full like when you anticipate that with the >> if after the after the expansions? >> Yes. >> No, we will not a in terms of current projections what we see right now we will not run out of
space. >> Don't need any middle school. >> No, we will not need any middle school. Could Sentry be bigger? Like I I know you have the three classroom. I'm assuming that's two on the lower, one in the upper.
Could you just double it up and go two up, two down for the expansion? >> Right now you have a grade or an an addition that adds a grade per or a studio per grade, right?
So you have a capacity of approximately 1,500. You could certainly add on a third level to that and have a three. Right now it's a twole addition. You could have a threele addition. >> It's just two team rooms essentially.
>> Okay. >> Yeah, you could have another one. Then you would have a very large middle school at 18. start to run into some sight constraints though because it is relatively small for a middle school site. >> Sure. >> So you can you add you add students, you
add parking requirements essentially. >> To our earlier discussions, do we imagine keeping our teaming model? Like I feel like we're basing a lot of the build decision on teaming and is that what teaching and learning is
anticipating we will continue with? Okay. for now. Yep. Um we'll review that um that structure as we review all the structures that we have across our district. >> I mean that that is another possible
solution if you didn't do anything. If we were in that position where this fails because teaming takes up additional space like we weren't in teaming it would open up capacity, right? We will have capacity issues in one year for these fourth graders. Is that right?
>> I mean >> fall of 28, >> but they're coming in fall of 27. >> Correct. >> 28. >> Yeah, it will come in fall of 27, right? >> Um 27. >> Yes, it will it will it will get a little bit tight. Um but we're
mitigating that through some attendance area adjustments um to kind of mitigate some of that and then by fall of 28 pending your approval we'll have space. >> Yeah. I mean there's potential that we could the city could blow up and
populationwise and we could need an addition another addition. Um >> well >> depending how >> I mean >> rates go and building goes. >> Yes. That's always the that's Yes. We could always that could always be a problem but we don't see that right now
when we look at the city developments and and you know the economy and all the factors that go into it. we just see a slower but steady growth. And you know, to Michael's point, that's something we are going to be very um tuned into as we move forward
because knowing that when we see something, it's at least a two-year lead time to to build capacity in terms of facilities. >> Does anyone have any comments on the other items besides the increasing middle school? Are we kind of set on just focusing our attention on that?
>> Are we talking about like the the list from facilities? >> Yeah. >> Talking about >> Yeah. Can you put that list up because I was trying to find it and I can't find it. >> It's in the board packet from last. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I appreciate Michael what you're saying
about the bathrooms at the high schools and upgrades. I I'm not saying that's a priority. I'm just trying to keep everybody's mind on >> I just am not [snorts] >> at this point ready to invest over 11
million for a handful of football games and graduation. >> Yeah. >> Given all of the other needs of our district. Like if we had of course it'd be great to have bathrooms. I'm not going to >> but I think there's many schools that don't have bathrooms at their high schools. I think we have advantage.
>> It is I mean interesting. We you talk about the equity items like you don't know what you don't have until you go somewhere else, right? Like our our kids will be at Kenwood or well I've got two they're going through Century and the other two younger ones will go through Kenwood with the boundary changes but uh
they won't know or care probably. Yeah, Matt, to answer your question about equity, um I thought I saw it's 53 million in the budget if I'm if I'm looking at the right slide total. And I I have the same
concern. I'd like to know from A to Z what what's priority and what's not. Now, Lucas, I think you just said everything's priority, but I I still like to get a sense of that. >> Okay. >> So, there's seven items on the list. Do you want me to read them? I think we're talking about two different lists.
>> We're talking about We're talking about two different lists. When when we talk about equity, we just in terms of just the middle schools, it's making sure that the spaces in each of the middle schools are equitable or equal to the
greatest extent possible so that one student at Meuire has a similar experience, facilities, spaces at another middle school. Um, and so that's kind of how we we approach that to make
sure we raise the standard of our middle schools so that they are equal across that because that is a big concern. I'm just saying it's a big concern of our teachers and our uh community that we pulled and brought into the group that hey we have a similar you know to the
greatest extent possible. Some of those equity items are like the kitchen, the cafeteria. We got to have, >> you know, we call it an equity item, but you got to have the right size kitchen to support the population that you're going to have. And so >> it's more function or functional. Yeah.
>> Right. It's more of a functional equity, I guess. And then when we talk about the other equity items, it's the stadiums, it's performing arts center, th those were all again identified needs. And if you look at the educator input data versus what the advisory group came up
with, it was all consistent. If you go back uh last year in previous efforts, all that data tracks is the same in terms of their needs. That's what the community, our educators are telling us
what they need for, you know, educating their our our students. So, um that's where that is. So I I the equity term in terms of the middle schools is not um you know uh a want. It's really to get
everything up to the same standards across the middle schools. >> So >> which is which is a want, right? >> Yeah. Well, [clears throat] >> I mean, we wouldn't have to do it to >> But looking at the the slide with the priorities 1 through seven from last
board meeting, the performing arts center is listed as a separate line item then. So, so if I'm understanding this correctly, then >> the $130 million addition project for middle schools does not include the
performing arts. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And all of those things underneath of it, >> right? >> Yes. There's there is definitely a perception of middle schools I feel like in our community in terms of what's the you know
>> shinier one versus not and I think as much as we can do to create even though I mean very similarly my I won one through Sentry and my my younger ones will go through Kenwood I have no concerns about any sort of transition there and I think as much as we can do
to create a similar experience experience is going to be good for that perception. >> I attended some of those task force meetings over the summer and I can tell you that that was a very very stress point among all participants and it they
brought it up time and time again. >> It's it's there's I've had plenty of conversations probably because my neighborhood switched and just talking with people about you know awesome things at Kenwood because people are really upset about moving, you know, so it's It's that
>> we should keep it in mind because we're going to well aboard we'll have that same discussion down the road when we get to high schools you know >> right >> north is behind south and >> the other very large item on the priority list from last board meeting is
the pre prek building right to build a new center right >> for like almost 40 million >> I can I I mean I I appreciate that I think there is a need, but I'm wondering if that should be incorporated into like
a long long-term teaching and learning plan rather than just like tack that on to this. >> Sorry, >> I would agree with you. >> There there are some things on that list that are dependent on a vision and strategy and there are some things on that list that are not dependent on a
vision and strategy. Mhm. >> And we also, you know, just I can't remember who said it, but we also got to be cognizant of, you know, are we representing with this ask? Are we representing the greatest portion of the community when we go out, whether
it's a one question or a two question, are we giving the community to vote on what they need in in their schools? Right. and making sure that we represent the greatest cross-section of the community as possible when we go to um
you know a vote in May. Um and again some of those things are dependent on a vision and strategy and some of them are not. Um and that may help you in that decision. >> I think Go ahead. >> Okay. I think it I mean I'd have to pull it up, but I did look a little bit ago
at the um the Wisetta $500 million referendum coming up and they had three different questions. >> You know, one thing I think has been a challenge recently in our community is if we go out for more than one question,
it's hard to get both of them past or at least that was the last experience. And it's also harder to get past things that I would say are more special interests. And so think about >> some of our teaching and learning related items. When we talk about early
childhood or special education or ALC, um I think we have to be strategic about how we pair all of those things to get broader support. And so that's that's yeah, I come back to like how do we
>> You're 100% right because that's exactly what I was talking about last time where um if you just go out for a levy for the district office, >> it won't happen. No, >> no, because we want things for kids and that's just not um the need of the community right now. That's not what the
community would like to see. So, we do have to be strategic in how we do the questions and how we pair things because um those other things aren't the shiny new stadium stairs. >> Well, and that's why I I guess like if we were to push this back to next
November, that would be when would we have to know? I know that pushes everything out, right? Like, >> well, you will not make >> if you wait. Yeah, >> we wouldn't make a 28 opening, >> but we >> Okay, that was my question that I had
asked earlier today. Like, can does it have to be May? >> Yes, >> even if we pushed it to July, >> we it has to be May if we're planning to open in 28. Correct. But I also think like is there something to be said for developing a more cohesive plan that
includes the various departments and it is going to push back the year but then it's a more comprehensive plan that addresses the multiple needs and we only have to go out once versus going out this year and then in two years. There's something to consider too in
that the the volume and you know typical voters who are going to be voting in May are going to be categorically different than what are going to be doing in November. Absolutely. Everybody's going to be doing it in November.
uh you're going to get midterms, not as much as >> um that actually might work favorably if we split this up in the sense that we cover the middle school expansion in May
and then supplement it with one in November focusing on other items that we would want to discuss as part of the long-term plan. um because you're going to get
just largely different groups of people voting. Um you might want to consider it um just as an alternative rather than putting it all into one or putting it all in together. >> We've done like you were saying this may
end. Well, I'm saying um in order to make the timeline for the additions, >> it sounds like that has to be done. I think, you know, we're going to move forward with that. if there are other things that we're discussing and a lot
of these items, you know, the additional prek or early learning center, um, you know, stadium upgrades, um, while some of these other items, the performance arts center we want to include it, um, we can have more time to discuss the long-term vision of what we want to do
as a school district and then start making movements towards that with a referendum member as part of Does that make sense? It's like >> Well, I understand what you're saying. I I don't Have we done that where we've gone like twice in one year?
>> It's I I would just say it's like it might have to wait until I >> I I would offer that you wait one year because you're going to have to bond for the high school problem in 27ish. So, to your point, sir, yes, you could do that, but I would I would wait one
year instead of trying to do two votes in in a single year. gives you a little bit more runway to to get the vision and strategy right. Be very deliberate and then you can go and and you can take that bigger bite out of the >> I I do agree that it's not a wise idea
to put on the same one. What's going to happen is people are going to vote for the smaller one and say, "Okay, I did my contribution to the school district." >> Um and that's what happened last time. Unless you package it with really
meaningful things like that's that's where I think being strategic about what's in each question, what people are going to latch on to in terms of they're going to vote for. >> But it seems like our community has a
harder time passing loveies, right? All the all the resource questions we need for the teaching and learning discussion, you can't pair that with a bond, you know? You can't say like we need to pass this in order to build another like you couldn't make them dependent on each other. Correct. These are separate. You
can't put a bond with a levy in them, right? Is that correct? >> Well, yes, you can, but the the opportunity has to be in November. No choice to do it. >> And you can make them dependent on each other. >> Oh, you could. >> Yeah. >> But we don't need an operating levy
right now. Right. Well, I think there's >> some of the needs would be more operating. That's >> we're saying we don't have what we need to do what we need to do, >> right? And I think when we're when we are talking about the strategic plan and the various things that are part of our
mission, the facilities is a really important piece of that, but obviously the instructional piece is huge. >> We're not dealing with that right now. >> I don't know if this is telling what you're getting at. I mean, there's also the reality that a bond would be more
likely to pass in May than November. >> Yeah. >> Or whatever. I guess we can't do operating in May. >> But I do think like people saying, >> well, I mean, >> good to know. >> I do think people understand like the
the middle school capacity issue like people are [clears throat] talking about it. >> Yeah. So I would be very surprised if that didn't pass no matter when when we go for it. >> I I said that out loud on Twitter. But >> yeah, >> because what if you did the you know the
essentials on the expansion and then you you added the equity as another contingent question on top of that >> about like a stadium or before >> I'm talking like the equity within the elementaryaries. Well, it gets >> because if people are saying that's high
priority and it's the second question, you know, contingent on the first one passing, which is the expansion, then theoretically it should pass too, right? if that truly is high priority and more just a priority in the the the facilities group advisory group that we
had. >> I just we start to split pairs now with with the capacity versus the equity because you now you're saying well build classrooms but don't build a kitchen. >> Well no no I think that's a necessary
component. I would agree but there are other things like $5 million of furniture upgrades. Okay. >> You know, I think that's a a want and not a need. I mean, again, I haven't seen all the furniture. Maybe there are some >> I I would I would offer >> there are there might be some needs.
>> You heard, right? >> Just go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Can I can I offer a good way of because what you're seeing is in in that broken out pricing is just quite literally
results of the plan that we have, right? You'll see you see that that metals room right as an ad and that's actually associated with capacity addition right it's just part of how you expand the cafeteria because right now it is
surrounded in all sides by room so you have to replace it with something >> I think the way that you could look at and break out this pricing is through capac all of the work that's required for capacity ad >> all of the work that's required for
equable teaching stations. So, for example, Maguire has teaching stations or classrooms that are under 700 square ft. So, very, very small for middle schools. That was one of the needs that was identified. You have DCD rooms or
centerbased rooms that are very small and don't have access to bathrooms. So, that's another way that you could break out this pricing and we can do that after this and provide that. Furniture certainly is another one. And then I would break out the the
tennis carts at KTMS just because that it's additional um curriculum opportunities but not necessarily I mean that's the need that it's serving. >> Are there middle school tennis teams?
Where does >> things um Kenwood >> um could not host their own events because they didn't have enough tennis courts? >> You need you need eight tennis courts to hold those >> do they host live tournaments at middle school? >> Do they host the live tournaments at
middle school level? Well, I don't know how you define lot but they yes they to all the tennis courts are used like all these facilities are used all the time whether it's you know district sponsored non-dist
all the time >> I understand that but then like when I think about priority >> like as far as like teaching and learning goes like the tennis courts are not going to hit the same priority for me as the additions to middle school
because that fills the need for so many more students than the tennis courts. And then when I think about equity, I'm also thinking about like where our students are learning in the spaces that they're learning in. So a DCD classroom that doesn't have a bathroom, that's
definitely a need in my opinion. >> A tennis court, you know, a big a big new performing arts center. I I guess that's just not part of my priority list, especially when I have like the ALC students that are in a
locker room learning without any windows, without any cafeteria access, without any gym access. The tennis courts are kind of down here for me. >> I'm kind of not to joke, but I kind of a Brian Thompson question. um
>> he's going to be honored >> only one >> um and this is only because I I came from Eden Prairie system we have one middle school it's gigantic right so we would never do additions on two and
close one to save cost on operations >> and then we we'd have a feeder system >> be big addition >> I know I'm just >> has that ever does that ever idea come up at all ever like where we would not need and then we could still use the third facility for like the space
rentals. >> So you're talking about two middle schools. >> I don't know. I'm just I'm just thinking about I'm thinking we're not going to do anything. So we you know I'm thinking of all the options just to >> it's not a bad thought because then we
think about equity with the three middle school buildings. Mu Magguire is the oldest building and it's landlocked. So, it would be hard for us to build any more onto that specific building. >> KTMS is problematic. That's why we did not put any capacity there because
although there's space adding on is just the geometry of the land is >> what's the issue there? >> It's pretty landlocked there. >> Yeah. >> What do you mean by landlocked? just one way in one way out type of deal or >> it's because the surrounding area like
the marshy area the marshy area precisely so where you want to add to the building >> it's a fair question you have leg and amber >> good job >> the only the only other thing I just want people to think about is I know when you
guys were talking about capacity in these buildings the numbers are high in terms of what is in classrooms right when you were like so I ask people to think about like when we're thinking about when we would potentially need another middle school
like I would love to go for lowering class sizes so overall across the system but as part of a levy um and that would require more space so >> and more tax base. Yep. >> Yes.
>> But again, if we're talking about the feedback that we're getting from our elementary staff and our middle school staff and our high school staff, it's it's how many kids are in their classroom? >> So, I mean, and I guess that was my question earlier. Is this too small?
>> Well, and that's why I asked about are we really going to be able to like how long is this going to last us? >> Like if you look at some of the charts there, we kind of ran the numbers. option one versus option two. And just if you look in the past decade, we were
at our our occupancy rate was around 80 to 84% you know over the last decade. And so we built our capacity in one option to be right initial occupancy to be right at 80% because that's what you know our
historical data says. And then we you know it was also talked about well let's build a little bit more space. So that's where option two is. Gets you down to about like 77% to give you a little bit more space for growth. And so that and then that just gives you
extra insurance that you're not going to have to bolt on or build another middle school with some unexpected growth. So to your point, the option two provides you a little bit more space. >> I mean, there's really no reason not to go option two if you're going to spend
this much money anyways, right? >> It's about a nine. million dollar difference. >> Yes. >> What's the t tax impact on an average house again? Do you know that off the top of your head? >> Um >> if we just did the middle school edition,
>> the what we would do like we're waiting for the survey to come back to really know what >> right >> what that threshold is because we can we can frame the debt to match what's >> what the what the community is willing to pay.
>> I see. Okay. Got it. It is. >> Yeah. >> I love that. And things have failed in response to, right? Like when we've tried to keep it within that and then it I mean >> where you followed the survey and then it just still
>> and so in some ways it's like to me it's we to do that you have to go we're going to spend more over the term, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, if you if it needs to come down, >> then we're going to spend more across a longer period of time where I think this is an easy sell to our community.
Everybody knows that this is a stretch at this point. >> I don't know if everybody knows that. Like I think I think as parents we're in those circles, right? And I'm just cognizant of like the
county tax the levy that the county put on is like insane. Um >> 16% Mhm. >> Combined. >> Combined. >> Yeah. Combined. >> The city added Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know what Lakeville because I'm in Burnsville, but like but the county like right let me 10%.
Because they hadn't kept up with themselves and >> were we have to keep that in mind. So just >> of course I see >> will we need an operating levy to fill some of these spaces these new spaces
>> that there will be some increased cost because we have more square footage. We do have to have custodial support to do that. There will be heating costs. There will be electric costs, but it won't be enormous. >> But as far as like staffing, >> staffing, >> teachers,
>> the teach the kids will generate the money we need for the staffing. >> Okay. >> So, I'm not worried about the teaching staff. So, it's whether we need more support staff in that particular building. That will be added cost. But I mean, do you anticipate we'll be able to cover that in our budget or will we have to have a operating levy that we use up
a chunk of that tax capacity? >> We have to make decisions on our programming and what we can and can't do. >> Yeah. I know one thing looking back at High View and I still hear about this from people that they were frustrated about, well, you built a school and then you went out for and again I think some
of it's education. I didn't understand like you can't you need the operating levy separate from the capital levy to to do it or the bond. But yeah, just wondering if if we're anticipating that it'd be good to I don't know I don't know how you give
people advanced notice but >> it doesn't sound like it'll be as much >> at the time. And correct me if I'm wrong. What happened with that was um the unassigned fund balance was way up and the intention of the board at that time was to use that to open the school
which was why they didn't originally do an operating levy. Am I am I wrong? I thought that was >> You're right. >> Yeah, I thought that was what happened but then we had you know COVID and all the other things that impact our finances. So when you saw our unassigned
fund balance tank so that was no longer an option. >> Is there any other information people need from Lucas to kind of advance this discussion? Can we have kind of like an idea of where people are sitting
like what they would like to see? Sure, I'll offer. [laughter] >> Yeah, low man on the total poll, so it's all good. Um, I would like to see the option to 100, the 139 million. That's
got to be done. I would like to see a separate building for the prek, early learning center, and um the ALC pathways. Um I know from the meetings that this summer those um trying to find
space for that was uh like trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Everyone's trying to figure out what to do with it, where to put it. If we have a solution for that, I think it opens up a lot of options everywhere else. Um same, you know, uh having a you know
separate building that would also include you know the least space here, you know, things like that. Um putting a building of that nature. Um mentioned at the last meeting that um the area behind the church and over by Lake Noel South
is too small for a middle school, but it could work for something, you know, something much more, you know, issue specific to something like according to that perhaps. Um the physical and safety and security improvements. Yep, that's kind of a
need. Um I I guess those are my needs. Um those are the things I would really like to see um other options. I mean I'm I'm open to ideas, but I'd really like to see those things taking part of as part of this this um everything else kind of
you know looking at the bigger picture and taking a step back. Um, I think we really do need to have discussions as far as what we're going to be doing for the next 15, 20 years as far as like what we see as far as a school district and what buildings and trying to map that out as part of a longer range plan.
I don't think it's you know been discussed um to to a large extent as you know Superintendent Bowman pointed out a lot of the problems that we're seeing right now could have been predicted two or three years ago. Um, I think having
those discussions and working towards kind of a longterm comprehensive consensus would go a long way to laying the groundwork for the future. Lucas, um, on the facilities
slideshow with the seven things, um, for the early childhood center that's on there, do you have a land place, >> a land, >> like land purchase for that or >> 27 acres that we have? >> Okay, >> that's what we would use if that's
>> that's where you'd put it is on the 27 acres. >> Where would that be? >> It's right across from Tricky. >> Oh, where is it physically? That that's what you're thinking. >> 27 acres over there that we own used to have a cautil. >> I thought it was going to be additional on the existing building. Okay.
>> I my I struggle with with the click an additional building. I mean we got the numbers the enrollment numbers. I mean we have the capacity right now to serve all of the our district residents. Um I think if we prioritize our district residents, they all fit in the current
building. No, not uh early childhood special ed. You cannot do that. Yeah, >> just so you know. >> You mean you can't prioritize? >> You can't. >> But even still, I think what was it? The
um one of them were 140 over. We have 140 out of district people and I I think in one of those not special ed pull it up. That just seems like a lot of money. I
think I provided maybe I did I might be conflating but I think I provided the board um some information on early childhood and um it there's some some dollars uh that we get that have um
I can't get the word cautisil out of my head but have some requirements in terms of uh accepting uh students and I think the question was predicated on open enrolled versus serving our internal
community. So, uh we do have so early childhood special ed is one category. There's u um supplemental uh financial support that we get. I don't know if anybody readiness
>> school readiness. Uh so there there are some rules and I'll have to go back and pull that up and share that with everybody. Yeah, >> Small Wonders Preschool is that >> part of that or no? >> No, >> because there's 135 out of district residents in that program.
>> But like we're not even accessing BPK because we don't have any space to do it. >> Yeah. I I'm just again this goes to priorities like we have obligations as a district um where these certain certain groups that
we're serving here are not even an obligation, right? It's nice to have, don't get me wrong, and there are benefits to it, but if we're not able to satisfy our financial needs at elementary and secondary, and we're going to spend $38 million
and additional staffing, I'm guessing, too. Probably need some additional staffing for the second building. That's never a situation where I realize it would take a long time, but through tuition it could pay for the building.
>> Never. >> No, we can't do that. >> If if we build a building, we would bond the building and then you >> Right. But like >> the only reason that it pays for itself now is it's because we own the building. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which we paid for originally. But like so you can never do a situation where
like your tuition dollars is helping to fund a facility. I think the rates you would have to charge would be prohibitive in competition with private sector. >> Yeah. Because I asked about leasing space as another option. You know, could it pay for itself if it's leasing? And I
think even under that scenario, it didn't. >> Well, we have Tony's. >> Yeah. I mean, I think for me, I think we in expansion on the middle schools or some variation of that. Um, I think we can trim it. I would hope that we could
trim it a little bit off the 139. Um, based on what the board deems are the the needs versus the wants. Um, yeah, I items. I'd be open for a second. I I
mean a sec second uh voting option, but I don't I see a lot of these as just wants. >> Yeah. And I would go back to some of the comments I made earlier about the strategic aspect of operations, teaching
and learning and in policy 601. I'd like to get a little better understanding of that. Uh that being said, I'm still leaning towards the extension of the three
and I I also agree going back to and the word equity is confusing me. I'm sorry. >> Confuses me too. >> Yeah, I know. But um facility equity like we need a bigger cafeteria makes all the sense in the world to me. And
then you you you drop down into the the equities that are um sort of candy, you know, like a candy store. And I know, not a candy store. I see, Lucas. But but my point is I I think I'd like to get a
better sense of prioritizing that because I think if there is money to be saved, it's in the it's in the non equity equity. Non-facility equity equity. if >> I get what you're saying, >> if you know what I'm saying. So, that
being said, that's kind of where my head is at the moment, but I'm still listening. >> So, my thought would be um I would be for the bigger expansions on all three middle schools, not the the more conservative one, but the bigger ones
just to provide that space. Um, and then all of the things that are the needs with those expansions, the cafeteria, the classrooms, all of that. Um, my second priority would be pathways because I
feel like, um, when we talk about equitable educational spaces, they're the only student population in the district that doesn't have one. Um, and they gave up their building during budget cuts, which benefited the city. And I I think it's a
great thing for the art center. But I also look that that student population has taken the most cuts overall. And when I look at um some of the data that we were looking at with uh credit recovery and graduation and some of
those different things, I think a career and technical center that wouldn't just be for pathways, would be for both of our high schools would be supported by the community. And I also look at that space knowing that um with some of the um youth service learning projects that
the Chamber of Commerce does um and special ed students have participated in those um one of the things that we're lacking within Lakeville is a PACE lab which provides that training for for our population of students which could be in
the career and technical center which would not be for just pathways all of those. We don't have a proposal for that though at all. Right. >> I'm thinking out of the box. Like I thought we could be out of the box here. So >> yeah, we just have to have a number on it though is the thing. Right. What's
the building? Where are you going to build it? >> That would be my thought. >> I think for me I can get behind option two. Um for the middle schools. I think after our discussion today, it
seems like the line item um spreadsheet that um I forget Michael Lucas provided for the middle schools, there are very few things that could really be eliminated. I I I at the time had I had the auditorium linked in with it all. So I think for me that was one thing like
we really need to build another auditorium and so I think for me that's like the the optional thing that might not need to happen for the middle schools at this point but um I think other other line items I mean tennis courts you have like hardly it's really
a very small part of the budget. So that's where I'm at. >> I agree with the security stuff though. I feel like that needs to happen. >> I'd like to learn more about that like what exactly is included. I feel like our district has spent more money than than any really on safety and security.
And so I just want to better understand like what more are we going to be doing. Um and if you want to go over that now that's fine. Um however if that's and I think what the task force showed and maybe the survey will show is like
because of because of the climate in which we live that's an easy thing to pass. And so would that rally votes? And I don't really like the correlation between those two things, you know? I think that's like using fear to drive budgets, but um and not so but if that's
what we need to do, that's what we need to do. >> I know some of it had to do with cameras. >> Well, I I can provide you a more detailed list, but very broadly it's it's it's over 10 years, too. So, a lot of this is life cycle replacements. Some of it is, you know, closing, you know,
some newly identified needs now that we're using the system. So, again, it's just about making our safety and security robust. Um, over time, um, and then as things age, it's being able to have those funds to replace the things that we use now. So, um, I can provide
an additional level of detail for you to >> So, it's mainly to support 3D responses infrastructure >> in part. Yes. Okay. I still have a lot of thinking to do. I I'm worried we're going to get out to
the 33 35 time range and we're going to need another middle school. Um >> I think the economy could shift. I think there's a lot of Lakeville to grow and um in that time frame we're not going to pass anything else.
>> Be high schools then. Yeah. Um, and so I would rather pause and bring our departments together and see if we can develop a more um robust plan that [clears throat]
doesn't cause us going out repeatedly. As I'm looking at the YZ1, it's it is it's a huge levy, $465 [clears throat and cough] million for a new elementary, a new middle, and high school expansion and upgrades. Um, and
so they're bustling all of that together. Um, they're a different district. They don't have they probably have a different tax than we do. And I just think our community is tired of getting levy after levy after levy. Um, so I don't I do
agree that we need to go for what we need, but my worry is it's going to be similar to the elementarymentaries where we have the expansion and we have to come back and ask for you. I think that's everybody. All right. >> Um, we're back we're back here again in a week
>> and then another week after that. So, any other questions for Lucas? >> Do you think we'll be able to come to a consensus vote next week? >> Next week, I would say no, but uh I mean I would say the 16th is probably the
>> Is the survey data coming next week? >> Yeah, we should have that. >> Okay. So, we're just I I I the 23rd is like the red line in the sand >> and we need some time. So, once you say this is the answer, >> that's going to trigger a devel a
proposal development team to go write the thing that you approved. >> Sure. >> And then you'll, you know, you and the superintendent will need to sign that. But that takes a little bit of time. The 23rd is a hard date. Like, >> what what more information would each
board member need? Yeah. >> In order to like it seems like we I don't know what else we would need between now and the 23rd like why we couldn't do this on the 16th. >> Oh, no. No. I say we we would do it by the 16th >> or sorry, next week is what day?
>> The 9th. >> We don't have the survey. >> We'll have the survey data. >> The survey data will be that next. It will be that night. >> I mean, we could put it on for a vote next week and if we're ready, >> we always like say no, we're not ready. We could. >> Yeah. But at least we could if the survey data comes out and it's like way
different than what we think. >> Yeah. I mean, if you guys have other questions of Lucas, make sure you get it to him before next week. >> I'm here for 24/7. >> Matt, will you be following up with Brian so that he has information from tonight's meeting?
>> Mhm. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Didn't we dismiss a bunch of stuff? >> Yep. I already did. >> Oh, okay. Everyone else saying uh last item. We
can make this quick. >> I don't know what's happening. I'm out. >> Thank you all. >> You had his He didn't say that on yours. Did you see that? >> I mean, this isn't the actual discussion on it.
>> I understand. >> Okay. >> They don't want this. >> Yeah. >> Watch. Thank you. >> All right. >> Seems like there's so few of us now. So, this is the rubric that we're sending out to all board members.
>> Okay. What? >> This was what we agreed to send out to all board members. Then >> okay, I just uh pulled this out of the MSBA thing and remove the unnecessary pages. >> One question I had about this. Um sorry,
am I jumping in too quick? >> No, there >> I was wondering Michael if you'd be interested in doing like a self evaluation. Sure. we do it and then we have a meeting to kind of compare where >> and maybe we need a another a separate forward conversation before that. But
I'd be curious to like hear how you think things are going too. >> Yeah. So perspective. >> So we do this >> then we go into close session. Do we go into close session >> without superintendent first? >> Yes. >> And talk about it. What? >> We're doing it right now. >> No. >> Yes. Go.
>> We do. And then do we bring him in, talk to him, and then do we go out into open session and then have like a little synopsis of it? >> We do a close session without him just to um because like what what we do is like we all fill it out separately and then they all go to you
>> and then you kind of craft like one voice. So it's not like seven different assessments of the superintendent. It's the board's assessment of the superintendent. And then you you bring that crafted version to the closed session and then we kind of review it and make any tweaks that we need to and then we
>> um give him our final version and discuss it. >> Yeah. >> I I' I'd like the conversation to be current >> and and future evaluation. I think one of the things that and I mentioned this I don't know I lose track of time. It was a month ago in one of the meetings
when we were started talking about this thing um when Michael got his contract which I think was in October ago but two October ago >> not this >> October but the October before right >> um I'm I'm not sure there were there
were any um requirements and let me use a different word there were weren't any um specific metrics anything to accomplish? That was very evident, I think, when when you signed your contract. If I'm wrong, please tell
me. I wasn't there. >> He was interim. >> He was an intern then. >> He was inter. So, you don't evaluate an interim superintendent. But there was a transition plan. >> There was a transition plan. So that was something that when I was looking up
trying to find things like um that's something that um Michael you identified like the goals. >> Yeah, I wrote a transition plan. >> We did. >> There's some of that. Okay. All right. So, but still I think there's there's
this evaluation current day, but I think we also need to start talking about because time will slip away what the next evaluation should be and what Michael will be accountable for and and I think when you when you look at the metrics and you look at the
academics metrics that we've we've put on the dashboard and some other things, I think that should be part of the next evaluation. a year from now or whenever it is. Um, >> end of the school year. >> Yeah, end of the school year. Thank you.
Um, so so even though we're going to do this, I I don't want to lose sight of the future one because again, time's going to slip away and we're going to be sitting here with Michael and and maybe not having what we need or letting him
know what we expect of him. uh so that it's fair that so it's a fair evaluation and we're not uh blindsided. So Paul, to what you're saying, like I'm looking on I guess it's page 20. Um >> like for the teaching and learning
metrics, I feel like these align with the things that you're saying, but are you you saying do you want a specific target number? Like he has to hit 60% and if he doesn't >> I think I think that's what we've been talking Yeah. See, um Amber Yeah. staff
development, school improvement, curriculum, instruction, professional, yada yada yada, culture, etc. Um, but I think one of the things we've been working on for months and it came up actually last February was what are the
metrics that we want to see improve, which in essence is accountability. So that being said, >> what are we holding Michael accountable for and and put that in metric form? Now, not every one of these is going to have a metric. I get that.
>> Well, but that's what you're supposed to do with goals, but we never wrote goals for him. We did like the dashboard. >> Kim, my point my you're making my point. Yeah, I I'm supporting you saying that like >> this is like
>> this is just a basic job performance of what a superintendent would be. >> But the accountability metric comes in when you write him specific goals that you want him to accomplish for the year. That's how you hold them accountable because like this is just like for any
superintendent, right? Like >> but I think it's important that this is something less bombing. These are all critical things that the superintendent's doing. Andre my fear is we only will focus on the teaching and learning but >> but the part about like
>> I forget the term but basically like connecting with the community to create goodwill that is >> huge like you the superintendent is here to pass lobbies and referendums >> and >> if they if that can't happen then you
can the rest of it >> and Amber I'm not I'm not suggesting that there aren't important things on here. Yeah, >> but if academics are failing, and I'm not saying they are, Michael, but if academics are failing, where where are we as a board? >> Yeah, I agree. And I think
>> I don't think we want to lose sight of that. That's my point. >> And I think the big question is like what is the number and if that number is not hit >> then what happens? >> Are we firing the executive cabinet? Are you know >> and that >> um possibly I mean
>> we have to be ready. >> Yeah. I mean, if that's I mean, >> well, we only have we only have one client. We only have one employee, though. That that's the difference, right? And I So, I went back and forth cuz I listened to the um meeting again and I was in alignment with Kim's write
up in her evaluation form because it was tied to what we've been discussing. But looking at this in preparation for tonight, there's a lot of value here too because it does cover I mean there are some things that I'm just going to have to put NA like I don't know right um how
certain things are going. Um, but I do think we can use, [clears throat] you know, some of the goals that we've set for the district, which are really the superintendent goals and the metrics that we have even to date, you know, for purposes of evaluating him under this
rubric, too. Um, and it's going to fall in different different categories. I think the teaching and learning one is a good one because it does line up with some of the metrics that we put up. Technology is in there, communication. So, I don't I guess we'll see how it goes
this first round. And then uh so this is for us. >> So what's the cadence? Because like we've talked about this once before. >> Mhm. >> And then from that meeting like we were you were going to work with Kim to make
this like a like a fillable Google form so we could do it electronically and submit results to you. Um, and then we were, but that was already supposed to have happened. So, typically you do like two check-ins. So, we should have
already done one and we should have one due in like another month and then we should have the final one due in July. So, given that that time frame is not going to work, what's what's our cadence for how we're going to do this? I mean, I think I send this out next in next week and people will go through and fill
it out and hopefully have it back mid December. >> I don't want to do another meeting in December. >> No, no, no. You have this back in mid December. >> Okay. >> And then we can discuss it after the first of the year. >> So, we're going to do it on paper. >> Yeah. >> So, we doing this
>> or digitally? >> Well, so here's the other question. >> No, I think we're doing this one. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because this is the one that the board voted on. So, the question is, do we want to do one of the We had also talked about doing one for the staff. Um,
which I think Kim, you said this is the one that was also sent out to the staff. The board and the staff did this one. >> Well, that's just one I drafted based on our board conversations, but nobody wanted that one. They wanted this one. But we did like how we did it is we did like three goals like that similar to
that format >> and then we sent out a Google form with those same questions to the staff. So they filled out on those goals and we filled out on those goals and that's how we >> they did get that >> they did the same one.
>> They did the same one we did but that's one that I wrote for Ber. >> I think this is one >> that's not the one. >> Here check that. >> I don't know. They all look the same to They do look very similar. >> That's not I I cross checked that Kim with the other thing I sent you with the
screenshots of the Google like Yeah, >> we completed a different one via Google form. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah, I I think this is one I wrote after one of our board discussions for bounty. I don't think this is the one we did with Doug. >> Okay. >> Not at all. It was similar in format
because we had the same ratings and then there were three goals and then we had written feedback for each goal that staff members could provide and then the strengths and areas for growth and then there was just a general comment section but it was like on a Google form. We
just I just I made it like I just transferred the questions from this to a Google form and then Doug sent it out to staff. Kim Alson, is that what you were talking about when we're talking last week? >> Yeah. Well, no. I was talking about a
survey monkey that was sent not regarding not with the board. >> Okay. >> Is that the panorama survey stuff or is that different? >> Yeah, he had something he had a different panorama survey. >> Yeah, he did that too. >> Yeah. But Kim, I think the one does this
sound familiar? There were three different goals >> and then we added a fourth goal later. >> Is that nice? >> To vans. >> Yes. >> We added it after our first check-in.
>> So those were more specific to things. Yeah. So that's where that was Yeah. more tailored. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> It was like overcommunication. >> This feels this feels very similar to like this. It's just >> summarized >> written in a different style
>> summarized so you don't have as many roles like and so what we did is we decided like what were the because this is very long and thorough because it covered all the aspects of a superintendent's job role but we took like what are the board's priorities and our priorities for the new
superintendent were um we were trying to fix the unassigned fund balance so there were still finance goals we wanted communication was a big one because we wanted them in in the community meeting people, getting to know >> that. Um, and then we had the budget cuts. So, I mean, a lot of those are
related to what was going on in the district at the time. >> Um, >> and you know, then you think about like what do we have going on right now? Well, we're going to need a levy or a bond. So, finance should be a big one. Um, we're
kind of re re-evaluating teaching and learning and we have new leadership. So there should be something related to teaching and learning. And then he is in um just we're in a growing time within the
district. So being out in the community and explaining like the district's story about that is important in his role because the community has to understand what the school is going through. Have someone positively telling our story so that when we do go out for a levy, they
understand what the needs are. Because I mean this just takes a it takes a long time to do it the right way even with three questions because we I mean everybody provided comments. >> They need to go through all the comments and figure out like where the common themes are and yeah it takes a long
time. >> I bet you could put it into a chat GPT and it would summarize it for you >> probably. >> Well I I almost wonder if we don't just take some out of here for the staff as well. you know that are not schoolboard
specific. >> Well, do we want to do that now or do we want to do that as like a final >> Yeah, this seems like a midyear eval and like >> so just stick with the board for >> for now.
>> Yeah, I mean I'm fine with that and see how it goes. Um, and then have more of a kind of your wrap-up and you can do the >> pull stuff in at that point. Well, my only thought is I like this one just
because um it has seems to have more of a practicum methodology to it and um but I took the board's discussion that we had um and I kind of took pieces from what everybody was saying and then I
created three different areas based on the similarities from what people shared and then just created metrics for that like 1, two, three, and four. And I used the format of the MSBA one. Um,
which is this one, >> right? >> Yeah. So, I pulled some of the information. >> I think this one might be different, but but I'm aware of yours. And again, I was in support of that, but I think the majority of the board went wanted to do
this one, which I'm fine with, too. So, I think they both get us. This one's probably just has more it's more expansive and covers more areas, which >> well, this might we could use >> I was going to say this might help us this round to do that. And then for the
final, we could funnel it down to like things that >> we'll figure out what's what we find of value when we go through and do this as a board. And then with >> which one? >> With this one. And then we could trim it up for the end of the year. Do you have
something that you said? >> I was going to say another option to do this one, but I would use this as my guide like to think like, okay, here's all the things I should be thinking about as I'm completing this and not giving a score
for each, but giving >> and I think my only change would be on goal three of this where it says align with district academic goals. I think it should be all goals. >> It should just say strategic plan. >> Align. Yeah. Align with the strategic plan. >> Yeah. It's pretty broad though, isn't it?
>> Or goals. I mean, >> no, I'm just saying goals beyond academic and I think I don't strategically their goals >> because the first area is all about economic goals. So, >> we just can't send the big one to staff
because >> that's a big ask. We've gone around the circle now. >> Are we? >> So, wait. Amber, you want the >> I don't really care. I think >> you sold me on this one, Amber. And now you Now you jump shift and left me.
>> I know. I'm sorry. [laughter] I listen to Michael. >> I'm with Michael, too. I would rather fill out the shorter one. >> I'm sorry, Michael. >> Go ahead. >> No, you >> Michael, did you suggest this one after I left? I I well uh Carly just asked me.
So I I mean I look at the two and this one seems to have more kind of like >> you can fill it out and >> seems more practical and it's distilled from this but and and I'm not I
understand that it may not be exactly these written out goals but it seems like >> if this was going to go to staff to be able to fill in as well and there's a Google form for it. I I guess I'm looking at it from a more practical basis
>> to get information to collect it to >> if we're going to go that one >> I would say we go back to the one that Kim actually drafted because it was aligned more with our discussions. >> Yeah. >> Where's this one? >> Yeah. I don't actually for
>> you shared with me. Yeah. >> Kim drafted. >> You shar >> I don't think that's one Kim drafted. >> I sent him over email. I just know what I said before. >> Kim must have changed it at some point. The one that I shared with you was from Kim. >> Hold on a second. >> I think I drafted a couple different
ones just based on discussion. So, just pick the one you like the most. They all only had three goals. >> Kim, why don't you send out to us the one that you think or that you guys are in agreement is the best [snorts] one. >> Okay. >> How about this? >> I I can do that. My computer's dead right now. >> Well, you don't have to do it right now.
>> Okay. >> So, for instance, So, if you look at the battery life, I had it fully charged at the beginning of the meeting. So, that's where my battery life is for this. >> Is that one we gave you? >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. Frisbee. >> Mhm.
>> It's all right. [laughter] It's okay. >> Do we need to change it? >> It's okay. It's all right. Cuz up there, I always have it just plugged in. >> Maybe it is the same one. >> Mine just needs to be formatted better. And when I say staff, like we sent it to
the executive cabinet like I didn't send it like >> to teachers. >> No, no, just the people he works with directly. >> Yeah. >> Tony had fun, right? >> I actually enjoyed the discussion, guys.
what you guys are talking about and how um I mean it's I'm learning what you guys kind of value as far as like how you guys are are discussing this like you know whether you want it more detail or whether you want more practical or whether you want um how you guys work
together. So I'm you know even even if I'm observing here it's just you know taking it in. >> You're part of us now. >> I am. I am. and and you know when it comes to this I mean I don't know how much my like take on what he's done two
weeks I mean it's not a whole lot but um >> um if you want my personal opinion I think the simple one is one that would offer the most opportunity >> the other thing I could maybe send if you're um if it's helpful you know I've
been tracking goals based on the conversations and if you go in my office you'll see them written up on the board. Um, if that's helpful to include or just share with all of you and if you want to, you know, include that in there, um,
you know, I'll help out any way I can. >> And Michael, I think your board would be really good for maybe this one, but certainly the future >> because that's part of what we're going to be looking at to see if they've been accomplished or not.
>> Michael, in your first life here, How did they evaluate you? >> I got no evaluations in the five years. >> No evaluations. Never. >> How did you get a merit increase? >> I I didn't. >> You didn't get a merit increase.
>> Um the what I did is a portfolio online. >> Yeah. >> And I send it to the board at the end of every year. >> Right. >> I'll take that back. My first year I did get an evaluation from the board. >> All right. um subsequent years I asked and I put an
online portfolio that they all could access and I just put what the goals were that I distilled and what the artifacts were to support the accomplishment of those goals and I mean I'm just candidly telling you how
it went. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Let's try. >> Yeah. Go ahead. I think we're I think we're in agreement. Consensus. >> Agree. >> Tony, you did? >> I'm good. >> Uh, sorry. Do we want to have it go out
to um the cabinet or No. Okay. [snorts] >> Amber, is that fair? >> Um, I'm I'm trying to think of of fairness to Michael. We didn't send it
out to cabinet until the end. >> It was just ours. >> We could do it. >> And if you're like, "This is just a check in." >> We didn't do it every time. If you want to do it every time, you can't. But for the check-ins, we didn't. It was just the final one. We did the cabinet >> because we took their opinion into the
the final. >> Yeah, >> that sounds good to me. >> Then that's probably more efficient. So again, procedurally, we would come back once it's all collected, synthesized, it's close session for the board to chat about it. >> Yep. >> And then we bring Michael into the close
session. >> Yes. Yes. >> We chat about it. Then we have to go back into open session and then explain. >> You just have to do it at the next board meeting. So you don't have to do the summary right after. >> Yeah. >> You can do it at the next one. >> So not in detail, but >> Yeah.
>> You want to be cognizant of employee rights. >> Yep. Mhm. >> Not that there's going to be anything that you can worry about. >> It's your evaluation. >> I can always do lots of things better. >> It's your evaluation.
>> Yeah. >> All right. >> I'm going to make a motion. >> Any other >> I would second that motion. >> Uh all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? We are journ [cough]
tundra.