Good evening. It's Wednesday, December 17th, 2025 at 6 p.m. Calling the Lakeville Board of Health meeting to order. Is there anyone in the audience recording this? I see no one. Lake Cam is recording this. First on the agenda is 135 Stapleshore
Road. Meet with Zenith Consulting Engineers LLC regarding after the fact local upgrade approvals. Um on this one I'm going to recuse myself from this. Um I'll turn it over to Chris in second. Thank you.
>> All right. Uh good evening Jamie Bnet. I'm >> supposed to wait till he gets >> give you the evil eye or something. >> All right. Go ahead. >> All right. Good evening. Jamie Besnet, Zenith Consulting Engineers. For the record, um we're here tonight for two uh
I would say very minor after the fact local upgrades, but more for just bookkeeping. Um, we have the septic tank which is in a very tight situation is about 6 in closer to the house uh with a
crawl space um than originally designed and also uh about 12 in closer to the property line than originally permitted. Uh be a number of factors u that could cause this. Uh overall um I think the installer did a fantastic job and had
tight tough conditions to work with including water table and traffic and uh I think he did a they did a fantastic job. So I'm hoping the uh the board will be amendable to these minor variances uh
changes from the original plan uh due to just a number of complications. Um, I'm happy to go over them uh with you in detail if you want, but um I think they did all they could. >> It's a tight lot. I mean, we're I wasn't
not terribly surprised when when it comes when these come before us with these these neighborhoods like this where it's tight and is so I don't have anything else to add about you, Bob. No, I mean we're not big on giving after the facts, but I mean that's one you're on
two acres and somebody just didn't even try to be a few inches off on this lot isn't that big of a deal. So, I'm all right with it. >> All right. Any comments? >> No comments. >> I'll make a motion we approve the two after the fact variances at 135 Staples Shaw Road.
>> Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? I >> I you guys you guys are talking about bedroom definition tonight. >> We are. Yeah. >> You mind if I stick around? >> Yeah, sure. >> We're not We're not voting or anything
like that. We're just just bringing it up and discussing it. >> Okay. Okay, next on the agenda, Angger's Conway Farm Store at 33 Selter Street. It's uh getting a new retail prepackaged food only establishment
license and it's pending inspection. Um I don't see anybody to talk to with this one, so I'll turn it to Ed to see where we stand on this. >> Yeah, it's um well, everyone knows um the Conway Farm. Um they plan on selling um frozen meat from a butcher. Um, so
they're not actually processing the meat there or anything like that. That all gets processed at a, you know, in a butchery, um, meat packing place and they're going to get the meat frozen. They're going to keep it in a freezer and then they're going to sell it frozen. So, it's a pretty, you know, low
risk, um, but it it is defined as a food establishment, so we have to permit them. But basically, yeah, they're just be selling frozen meat and they may sell other stuff there, but that's the only um food item that they'll be selling. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't care about
our end of it. I just didn't know if that was zoned retail, but that's really has nothing to do with us. That's between the zone board and the building department. >> Does it matter? That's cuz it's a farm. Does that >> I don't know. I don't know all the farm laws. It seems like farm people can do all sorts of stuff the rest of the world
can't do. So, but it's on our end. I'm fine with it. >> What I was trying to go into other lanes. >> Yeah. So, you just pending the inspection is all awaiting and that's next week. >> Yeah. We'll be doing an inspection next week and that's that's it. And and like
Bob said, we really have no control over the other part of it, you know. So, >> okay. I'm good with it. Anybody? I'll make a motion we approve the retail prepackaged food only establishment
Angus Farm at 33 Seltworth Street. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I >> I. Next on the agenda, Sodexo Operations LLC,
175 Kenneth Welch Drive. This one is also for a new food establishment permit. um and pending inspections. Um I see no one in here to talk to this one. So I will just ask Ed for the update that we stand on this one.
>> Yeah. So it's um most of us know as it's the old Talberts Talberts um that was um Talbert's office is gone and they have a new place there, but they have a very large cafeteria in there and it's not so Dexo is the company that runs it, you know, like an Aramac or something like
that. Um, so they're not the actual owner of there, but Sodexo is a very large u multinational company that runs food establishments. That's what they do for a business. I mean, and they're very professional. And like I said, they they plan to run this just as they ran it in the past, you
know. >> Yeah. They run cafeterias at a lot of businesses. >> Sorry. >> Like they run cafeterias at lots of >> Exactly. Yeah. This is not a new thing for them. Um, that's what they do. They run cafeterias, you know. Okay,
>> I'm good. You guys good? >> Go on, Chris. Do one. >> Waiting for you to say something. >> Let the people watching know that you actually pay attention. >> Hey. All right. Uh, make a motion that we approve the food establishment license
for Sedexo at Kushnet Lakeville, uh, at 175 Kenneth Welch Drive. I'll second that. Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I I >> I. Next on the agenda, discuss bedroom
definition um with Ed and the board um as far as maybe making a new local regulation on bedrooms and how we define them in Lakeville. Um, I know Ed had pulled up a lot of other towns do have
regulations on bedrooms and how they count them in their town. Um, Ed has printed out a bunch for us to review. Um, I'll just turn it over to Ed for a second just to discuss
the early stages of talking about this. >> Um, yeah, I'm not just basically what you said. Um, a lot of towns have their own definitions. If we want our own definition, we can try to take pieces from the other town. I've given you guys
some examples. Um, you know, it would um save us some problems. We did have an issue in the past with um um uh different interpretations of bedrooms. So, just to clarify that and that way I know, okay, you know, you guys tell me
what you want for a bedroom and then I will just enforce it rather than me trying to decide what is a bedroom and what is not. If if we have clear guidelines, I think it'll make everything smoother in the future. >> Okay. Like I said, many many many other
towns do have regulations on bedrooms. Um, it is in Title 5 what a bedroom is. Um, it's just vague on sometimes how they can be counted or not counted or where they're located. Um, and how big the house is, how many
rooms in the house um, and what the definition of privacy is, I guess, defines a bedroom. Um and then if you know we had a rag that a local rag would take all of the
um gray area out of it I guess. Um Chris any comments just to let people know what if any thing we would do. >> I don't know. Every time we talk about
this, I always like it makes me think of like, is there another way to do septics besides bedroom, right? So, can they can just be cut and dry and then call it a day? But it's one of the it's one of those things, right? It's probably the easiest way, right? Well, not the easiest way, but it's >> Well, it's what determines how many
people are living in the home. >> Yeah. And that's that's the most accurate determination of how much flow you're going to get is how much. >> But I mean a lot of these different towns though contradict like you know like this one here. The first one it says any room not defined that's a um
kitchen, bathroom, living room, dining room, family room. All you a family room. And then we had stuff like over garages that are if they're unheated, if there's if they're heated. But I mean,
I've said it before, my not my current house, but every other house I've ever had. And I know I bet 30 40% of people in town have like family rooms, playrooms, uh, pool tables, offices over their garages. And if we're going to stop
mandatorily calling all of those bedrooms, it's that's, you know, I mean, we we kind of got roped into a discussion that we all knew clearly was a bedroom. It was on the plans as a
bedroom. Um, and that kind of started this. So, um, then there's another one in here that says if it's in the if you put a bathroom in the basement, then the basement has to be called another bedroom. And how many people got bathrooms in their basements where the
kids hang out and play and stuff and no one's ever slept down there? I I I think it's going to take, if we're going to do this, it's going to take a little time and >> um, and a lot of thought to do it right and then still to,
you know, have it. So at least since it'll be local that we have the opportunity to give a variance for some things because you know before I went on my own and built my own office every house I had I had my office over the garage and it wasn't a bedroom. Um so
and I know a lot of people that do that. >> No and I just think about I've seen situations I'm sure most of them are on sewer but um like sober living situations where they just take a a living room >> Yeah. and throw six beds in it. >> You know what I mean? And they'll pack
them in. So >> the bedroom doesn't even matter anymore, right? >> There's not much you can do to prevent >> Yeah. So it's like that's why I always it that's why it always brings up like is there another way that we could do this where it's >> we're not constantly arguing about this. You know what I mean? But it's
>> and you could have a three-bedroom house with two people living in it. You could have a three-bedroom house that you had each bedroom had two dunk bed bunk beds in it. You could have, you know, a ton of people living in it and all that's going to do is make the septic bail prematurely, but that's kind of on them.
But to >> to arbitrarily start telling people, you know, >> that, oh, you got a you got a bathroom in your basement. Oh, that's a bedroom now. Oh, you got a um you know, you got an office over your garage. Well, that could be a bedroom. That's a bedroom now. And these septics get bigger and
bigger. I just I don't know. I mean, I I'm almost I personally would almost lean towards more just making sure like we put deed restrictions on anything that we have in a policy that we said we think these rooms could
possibly be used as a bedroom and make a deed make them put a deed restriction on. So somebody buying it like in that case that we were all just dealing with where they advertise it as a fourbedroom house on MLS doesn't you know the people buying it at least know when their lawyer does a
title search but um yeah I don't know to start like having these hard fast that's a bedroom I don't know I I I mean I see both sides of it and I'm and I'm okay with doing
something if you want to But I just didn't want to have a lot of flexibility with it because to I mean to say every basement in town that has a bathroom half bath in their basement is now a bedroom to me is like going way off the
reservation. >> Jamie, you want to put any input on any other towns or anything that you see as an engineer that >> I don't know a perfect solution. >> Yeah, that >> that's why I wanted to stick around. No, it's hard. You read through the
different towns and they all have they've all interpreted a different way. >> Eight different towns and they're eight different >> Yeah. >> sayings. And these all came from I I would bet $1,000 came from a knee-jerk reaction kind of like what
we just had to go through which like you know normally you can be reasonable reasonable people but you know we just went through a situation the plan said fourbedroom septic said fourbedroom it got listed as a fourbedroom and then they came in and said oh it's only a threebedroom
and at some point that puts us in a position we had to say no no we we just can't do that. But but on the flip side though to say some of these other rules that these towns have. I mean I just again if like I'm all big about knowing
and if and if we decided to do that and we said well you know that's a cuz like this one here says a family room. Well my last house I had a big family room over my garage. You were there >> giant room giant family room over there. Um, you know, it now all of a sudden and
now they're saying that doesn't count, but by the other definitions, I mean, that was it had it actually had a half bath in it and everything. I mean, you could, you know, it had glass doors on it. We use it as a family room, but it could have been a bedroom. >> Well, I think that's what it is. You would just define it by the opening then cuz a family room would have a larger
opening. So, you could say, "Okay, it's a family room. It has a large opening that way. You wouldn't call it a bedroom." >> Yeah. But most of the most of my garages over the garage door, they just had a normal door going up to them. Yeah, it's like the the family room above my garage. It's open stairway and then it's a half wall. It's it's not it's not
enclosed at all. There's no >> there's no practice. >> It wouldn't be a bedroom. >> But there's a door at the bottom of the hall. >> No, it's you walk my entry way. It's a open stairway all the way up. >> Yeah. >> And there's a huge picture window that's out in the stairway. >> Yeah. So, I mean there's I mean, you know, I I
just with a lot of people, especially if they come from the city with sewer and they don't know about septic systems, you know, they come in, they're walking around the house with a realtor and it says three bedrooms, but they start looking around and saying, "Oh, well, we could put the other kids in that room or we could do this or that." At least if
it was in a deed restriction, at least they would know, "Hey, that's not really a bedroom." And if you use it as one and your septic fails early, it's kind of on you. you know, that's how I look at stuff. I just don't want them coming back and saying, "Why didn't you guys tell me? Why didn't you guys make me
aware of that?" Um, that's kind of my gray area with all that. >> That explains why D hasn't really budged on. I don't think that language has changed 20 years easily, right? So, I mean, the only thing that's going to be great is I mean, as the technology changes with the systems and maybe the
prices come down a little bit, like then we get to a point where maybe the systems are so good, we won't care anymore, but I don't know if that's going to happen. Might I don't know. >> All right. So, this one I would say then we'll just I'll continue it. Uh we'll put on one more meeting to see if we get
any input from anybody watching and we can read through these a little further. Our next meeting is not until next year, correct? Until 2026. >> Yeah. Is it is it January 7th? Is it >> and see if we if anything popped up that we wanted to continue this further to do
anything or >> but but even if it's not a real policy, I'm fine for trying to give it some more guidance if he's >> Oh, we can all agree >> in a situation. >> Well, yeah. It's it's just consistency because if we have something down, then everyone's going to get it this way. whereas
>> and then what you said too like there's always going to be exceptions. So it's like okay fine you have an exception come to the board and then you guys can say okay that's not a bedroom you can do that you know but like >> the D did say that when we reached out to them during the design phase if you're asking for something like this
you need to come to the board you need to come to the board of health >> present it to the board of health has to approve it before you go build it >> and install it and then try to close on it and get mad at us because we're not giving you a certificate of compliance.
Um, >> well, it wasn't that we weren't giving them up. Never mind. We don't need to reopen that all. >> I'm not I'm not going there again. So, >> but we Yeah. >> All right. So, I'll make a motion we continue that into our meeting in January 7th.
>> January 7th. Yes. >> Second. Any discussion? >> All those in favor? >> I. >> I. >> I. >> Okay. Next. Couple more quick things. Uh, board of health agent pending items and announcements. I want both of them
together to add. >> You did you do the minutes? >> Um, I don't have minutes on here. Do I discuss? I don't have minutes on mine. >> Okay. >> Neither do I. >> Do you? Does anybody have minutes? >> I don't even have any minutes. >> I think I must have an older version. Mine says review improvement. >> Well, they're not on the agenda.
>> I think that's the the template, right? >> Yeah, I I get the template. I don't get the All right. Sorry about that. >> Yep. >> Um, so yeah. um discuss board of health pending items. Um the only one is um I talked about it on the last meeting.
There was a by heart um is a it's an infant formula uh called by heart. Um and they're recalling it all and we there are none in Lakeville. We went to all the stores. There are none on the shelves or anything, but they for some
reason the FDA had trouble getting it off some of the shelves and Target and Walmart. So if you see a formula called buy heart um just do not buy it or um if you already have bought it um you know notify um don't use it you know um and
then um notify the the manufacturer but like I said at first it was a limited recall that was increased to everything so anything that says by heart on it for a food um for infant formula should not be used for infant formula.
Okay, >> that's about it. >> Is that it? >> That's it. >> Anything else? >> Uh, no. Just say uh >> I would say happy holidays. >> Happy holiday. >> Merry Christmas. >> We don't see you till next year. >> Yep. >> Anybody out there watching? >> I'll make a motion to return. >> Second.
>> All in favor? I >> I