[music] Good evening. It's Wednesday, May 6th, 2026 at 6 p.m. Calling the Lakeville Board of Health meeting to order. Is there anyone in the audience recording this? I see no one. Um, Lake Cam is recording this.
First on the agenda, we have the re reorganization of the board of health members due to the election held on April 6th, 2026. Uh Chris Pratt was reelected for a three-year term. Um so we have to
reorganize the board with a chairman, second member, and third member. I'll make a motion we appoint Derek Maxum the chairman for the current year. >> Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I
>> I abstain. >> I'll make a motion we make Chris Pratt the second member. >> Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I >> I make a motion we make Bob Paluchi the third member.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I can't vote for myself. So you get good [laughter] that is done. Next on the agenda to Margo Lane meet with Lieutenant and Keys Engineering regarding local upgrade approvals for a
septic repair. I'll turn it over to you. >> Hi. Good evening. Uh I'm Sandy Keys of McKinnon and Keys Engineering and we have undertaken this project for Mr. Lou Burtt, who is the owner of this two-bedroom property, and he's doing a
voluntary repair on this. Um, we've got quite a few variances here, but the only um affected butters um are all in agreement of what we're going to do here. I spoke to the tour butters on Monday here and I haven't heard anything back from the water district because we
still are within 200 ft of the pond that is the water resource of New Bedford and I guess um also Taton. So, uh with that in mind, we've decided upon using a Singular Dite Model 600. We've been
using these models for over 20 years now. They're extremely reliable and they don't break the bank in cost and they also are very energy efficient because some of these things that are coming out like the fast uh my son has got one at his house in Bowen and it's an extra
$200 a day or a month on his electric bill which is kind of a croker. So that being said, you know, we have a few variances here, most of which are on our subject lot. Um but I just want to note that Mr. Mr. Verett is taking this upon himself voluntarily. It's the two cess
poolools there are not in a failed site but um certainly they could use some improvement with the system that he has authorized us to design for him. So with that um being said um I could go
through the variances uh listed. They're on our plan which is terrible plan. Sorry for that awful print. Um but we've got them listed on the bottom. from the title five variances and they coincide with the highlighted areas on our site
portion of the plan if you want to follow along with that and I can explain each one as we go along. >> Okay. Okay. We're we've got a new septic tank the singular dite and we're proposing a new well in a position here because as I say it's
currently shared right now with um the Hoffman's at lot 1611. So that being said, that new well is 45 ft off our septic tank and the proposed
SAS is 63 ft uh off that new well. It doesn't meet the 100 setback, but certainly even under title 5 allowances and repairs, which this is considered as such, um we still meet more than that 50 foot threshold.
Now, the existing lot SAS on lot number 1611 is 80 ft away, but it's still uh better. I've talked to the homeowners there and they like this scheme a whole lot better and their own well is even closer to their own septic there. So,
with these tiny lots, you don't have a whole lot of flexibility on where to position things. So, the new SAS um is opposed to the new well, which will be 63 ft away. And once again, this is a dite. So, you know, even under title five, you're allowed up
to 50 ft. And then the southerntherly watt line, we've got a zero setback. Um, but there's no strip out on that back line. And I've talked with the homeowner there. He understands exactly what we're proposing here. And these soils were so tight, uh, it was a 30-minute per that
we dig down and the sidewall held up quite well. In fact, if I could submit this to you, maybe through Ed, we have pictures of the perf test that Ed and I did out there and it's exemplifies the solid walls that we'd be digging into.
So that in explaining it to the uh neighbor which is affected on that southerntherly lot line. He's fully on board with it. But as I say, there were very tight soils. Uh you wouldn't be able to do that if we had a less than 2 minute or sandy or lomy sandy soils. So
that's uh what we're proposing there. Um and then to the foundation, we've got 15 ft, but again, you know, that's more than ample without a lineup because you've got these very tight soils and uh the the soils don't migrate too much
sideways. They go downward in that position. And then the existing well on 1611 we've got uh 64 ft from that SAS and we were we did only one perk test
there you know with Ed's uh approval and it was a horrible day if you remember it was freezing cold it was just one of the first days when that winter really set in. So uh you know but it's indicative of all the soils that are there. They're pretty tight. And then the SAS uh to the
reservoir, which is Long Pond and Asawans Pond Complex, it's governed by the Taton Water District as well as the New Bedford Water District. Um we've got 200 ft, but again, it's a ditrification
system. So, I haven't heard back from them. I called down there uh Monday and left them a message, and I told them to call us back, and they just didn't care. I don't know if that's >> typical. >> Yeah, for for repairs, they don't usually comment. They only know my comment on what is there. And Lou has
taken this on voluntarily, too, which is to be commended. >> I wish all my clients were like that that I didn't have to fight with all the time to make them do what's right. But with that, I'd be very happy to answer any questions that you've got. And and note too, this is a two-bedroom, but
we've designed for a three-bedroom, which is the minimum size under title 5, and you're allowed to shrink that by 25% under title 5. We've shrunken it with a dite to 33% off three-bedroom design, but in actuality, there's two bedrooms
here, and if Lou gets approval from you guys, he's going to file a deed restriction to keep that as two-bedroom. And there's also a um deed attachment to with the singular people that's going to come forth. So we're just looking for approval. So Luke can finish this up
with his appropriate attachments to the >> I'd be very happy to answer any questions you might have. >> Um all right. Um Ed had quite a few comments on it that he had to >> um the the well location. So, you're
looking to get a new well. Um, we need to at least be 50 ft from a tank. Uh, you you're showing 45, >> right? >> Um, but it looks like we can move the well closer to that right-hand property line. >> Uh, you can't because if you look at the >> That's actually the road.
>> Yeah. If you look, and I know we discussed this, um, if you look at the septic system that's across the street, that SAS there, if you turn a radius on that, this is the furthest that you can get from that. >> So,
>> the one across the street or the one >> one across the street. >> So, you're just a 100 to that well. Is that what you're saying? >> No, we're um >> Oh, you 101. >> We're only 101 to that. But if we were to to infringe upon that even more then
uh we wouldn't have the 100t distance and it would be compromising that lot across the street. So we felt that especially with the dite here I mean we were more worried about um the existing septic systems around here that aren't dits that also are served by
private wells. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So that this is the neighbor septic. It's um it the 100 foot doesn't even come onto the property. It it if you got close to 80 ft to the road and then you got like a 20 >> I think she No, she clarified. I think
it's to that one the 101 >> on the corner. >> Yeah, she didn't want to go within 101 the neighbors. But >> 101 >> uh the one across Margo Lane. >> See where it says? >> Yeah, it's lot 16-3. The rebellos.
>> That's the one she's talking about. >> Yeah. And if we move that well from the position that it's in, then then we don't have 100 ft. >> We're not going down. We're going over. Right. >> It's the cross. >> Yeah. You you'd still be you might go to 79
to that back well or you could go to 98 to their well. >> Yeah. I mean, I understand you might get a couple feet closer, right? >> But you could move it. >> We can 10 to 15. >> And I I think I sent you the plan with the radius on that because there's one corner of it that kind of sticks out.
and we swung the 100 foot radius from that particular SAS and it it's met at that mark where we have our new well positioned on the plan. So you're afraid of of asking another waiver to a well and so you want
>> compromise you know >> you want to keep that one >> correct >> whereas you like I said we don't I don't think you're allowed to give a variance for 45 ft so you can go over 5 to 10 ft to allow for that and also get further
away from this well which is 63 ft now yes you are at 101 and you may go to 98 but going from 101 to 98 is to me less of a concern than going since you ed if you want to take a look at it. I >> I understand >> is the radius off the corner of that well.
>> I think the point is this is the furthest distance. >> So if if you go right there, how far away from the well will you be? >> Well, we compromise this well, >> right? But you're already compromising that well, >> but it's a lesser compromise and we feel more comfortable doing that. I mean, you
guys, you know, will do what? >> It's the state though, right? 50 ft is a state rule. It's not our rule, >> right? >> So, I don't think we can. >> But it's also maximum feasible compliance and we feel we've met that there with the radius. >> I mean, you can move the tank behind the
house. >> No. >> Just kick it over. No, I think if you move it 5 ft, >> then you can make the 50, which is the minimum, and then you'll need one more variance to 95 or whatever that turns out to be, which would rather give you
that than then get it too close cuz we're not even sure we can do 45 ft. >> Well, we're allowed to do 25 ft under title 5 >> in a variant situation. >> Yeah, we >> that's just it. And this is a dite tank. It's not like a conventional tank. So, I
mean, it's pretty well given the protection that's here. >> I mean, the tank the tank behind the house, was it the pond that you worried about? Cuz you could >> No, cuz there's an SAS that's across the street. I can show you how we had
managed this here. >> No, I understand radiuses and circles and stuff, >> but you're talking about a tank is within 50 ft of a well. We can move the tank over here. I mean, yeah, it's going to be close to the system, but it's not as bad as the well, you know, >> I just want to make sure.
>> We can't because with this particular unit, it's going to be fed from the end. >> We can feed it into the side as we have here, but it's going to be fed to the end, and we need the space in between. You know, cuz we looked at this and this this is what we have here um with that
across the street. We got that 100t radius, and it's a little bit of an angle here. It's not square. >> I I drop planes all the time. I understand >> we do. [laughter] >> Okay. >> So I >> Yeah. And um we did submit a plan um that showed Barb Lucy's
>> identification of all the septics wells that we have on record here and I gave that to >> and then the other >> to add to >> um problem I have with it is that the septic system literally on the property line. I mean it's got to be moved away
from the property line. Well, we we can dig right up to the property line with these. >> I'm not comfortable with that. So, >> well, let me show you on that. >> Ed, can I see that picture, please? >> Which picture? >> I guess we all saw we passed it down. >> Yeah, we have the soils. I saw the soils. I I put in septics for a living,
so I'm I'm fully aware. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Yes, I know. Exactly. Yes. >> Okay. This was what we had here. >> Yes, I'm fully aware. >> We're going down 5 ft. Yeah, >> that's all. This was down 10 ft and those soils didn't move. You're going
down to 56 on that side. >> 8.4 ft. I believe you're going down to elevation 56. You remove to grade is >> and you're currently at 644. That's 8 and 1/2 ft down. >> I'm just I'm not comfortable. It needs to get moved away underneath it.
>> But there's no other place that we can [clears throat] situate that septic tank. >> It's not even it's the field has to get shifted too. >> Um and also with it >> smaller. >> Yes, that was my next question. You're designing for 33 3 something
>> 350 gallons. We designing for you know you're supposed to design for a threebedroom when you can under title five and we have to reduce the field size because it limits the the life of the system. >> Title 5 allows you to do a twobedroom with a deed restriction. So you can you
are allowed to do a 220 gal. >> Yes, but we would rather not because of the longevity of the system. the three bedrooms last a whole lot longer than a two-bedroom. And then these particular tight soils, >> you know, it's >> but you get all these variances to all these wells. The bigger your system, the
more you're encroaching on people's wells. So, >> well, the only only wells that we're encroaching upon is um our own well. >> Well, no, your the neighbor's well as well >> and the neighbor over here. But, as I say, his own his own system is closer to
his own well than what we are projecting here. If you look at that big site plan that Bob Lucy prepared, you know, it can show you. >> And then it up a little if we have. >> Oh, we could. >> Um, the next issue is the keystone
you're showing under the system. >> Yes. >> Um, you didn't do the water table from the bottom of the keystone. And when you use keystone under the system, you lose that. >> Well, that's a bone of contention, too. and each board of health because I sat on my own board of health for 19 years
and I go to different towns and whatnot. Some health boards consider that >> um part of the system. Some boards don't. So, we put that in there with the idea in mind that you guys could make a decision if you want that stone to go. That's fine. We can compact those soils
underneath >> and leave it at that. >> Yeah. It would just be title five sand underneath that you'd set it on. >> Right. And then I believe Ed, you said >> these are the plastic units, so they kind of settle a little bit. >> We you can only take one reduction was
in your comments, Ed. So that >> you you can take just the reduction for the singular, but you you can't take a 40% and a 33, but you can just take 150, >> right? >> And that that does get you um I think right now what you have there is like
for 269 gallons per day, right? >> But you could go down >> straight title five, correct? >> Right. So you could go down to like a 220 or something like that. >> These um systems where it's not pressurized, we're allowed 40% reduction. >> So that's how we kept that. You know,
this is a 33% reduction off of uh >> Right. Right. >> Title 5, >> right? >> Is a as a threebedroom. I mean, we could shrink it, but I just I feel like heck do it. >> Yeah. I mean, the three-bedroom doesn't work because you you're not allowed to take a reduction for the chambers and
for the singular. You you have to take one. You can't piggy back them on top of each other. >> Well, this would just be title five. So, >> yeah. Yeah. You you you can't >> Well, this is 33% off Title 5. >> And that's fine, but you can't take the 40 as well then. >> No, we're not taking the 40. We're
taking 33%. >> If you take a 33% reduction from 330 gallons per day, then you don't get that size. It would be too small. Well, the calcs showing out, you know, the total leeching capacity with a 33% reduction,
>> right? But that's because you changed the perk rate. The perk rate was 30 minutes an inch. So, you designed on an 18minute per inch perk rate, which you're not allowed to do. If you get a 30-minute perk rate, you have to design on a 30 minute. I >> think it was designed for that 30 minute rate.
>> Type three soil. >> Yeah. you you have it for an 18 >> minute on the under the >> and you 20 >> the 40% would be an 18 minute >> that's what I try to exemplify with that statement >> and we're using a 20 minute rate on this
particular design >> right but you you can't use a 20-minut rate if you got a 30-minut rate >> well that's less than a 40% reduction it's like a >> but that's just it you can't take a reduction there and you can't take two reductions You can only take one
reduction. >> Well, that's what we're doing. >> We're taking a reduction in the field. That's it. >> But you also reduce the perk rate and you're not allowed to do that. >> We're not reducing the perk rate. We're taking that perk rate at 30 minutes per
inch. And then what we did was reduce that size of the field by 33%. We used that rate. The rate that we used in the calculation is is that rate and then we reduced it and we got the 33% reduction.
>> You used a 0.53 rate. Yeah. >> The rate for a 30 minute perk is 33. >> So you didn't >> So you didn't use that rate, >> but we gave it more volume because we of
the rate that we used. Maybe I'm not explaining myself. >> Sorry, I have trouble understanding that. You you normally you cannot change the perk rate. If you get a 30 minute perk rate, you have to use a 0.33 loading rate and you do not use that. You used a
0.53. >> Yes. But under that, you're allowed a 40% reduction. And that's I mean, it's apples and oranges. >> No, you can't take a reduction on your perk rate and a reduction on your field. You're not allowed to do that. We're not doing We're just doing the reduction on
the field at a 40%. >> But then you also changed the perk rate though too. >> Where was the other reduction on it and so I see the perk rate obviously was changed to 20. It's not >> instead of 30 right there.
>> Yeah. percolation rate is 30 minutes per inch. And with a 40% reduction, it allows that field down to a what would be essentially an 18 minute per inch. Maybe I'm confusing everybody here by doing that. >> Yeah. >> But when you reduce a 30 minute rate, it
comes down to an 18minute. >> But you're not allowed to reduce a perk rate. >> Well, we are we're reducing it by 40%. >> But you're not allowed to reduce a perk rate. But the field itself is 40%.
>> You can reduce the field based on the perk rate. But you can't reduce the perk rate and then design the field for a lower perk rate. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Right. Right. But it's it's essentially the same. >> So you just agree with it's the same. I mean if you you've got something that's
designed for 100 gallons and you got a 30 minute rate. All right. It's going to be 100 units. All right. you still have the capability of reducing that down to 60 units, which when you figure it out, it equates to an 18 minute per inch rate. That's what I'm trying to convey
here. So, we still got cuz even I see the other reduction you're talking about over here, right? It says 33% reduction, correct? >> Right. >> Over here. And then you got a 40% reduction over here. >> Correct. So >> we're allowed up to a 40% but we took a
33 instead. So that field is still increased. >> It's not that full 40% that we took. >> And then did they take a reduction for using the singular also on it? >> I think that was the 33 that they're using there. And um
>> well it's 40% that you're allowed with the singular as you were a fast system or any of those particular dice. And then is um are these the DNS we've been using or have we been using the TNT D9s? >> Yeah, there there is a TNT singular has
now they just recently come out with it and they prefer that for the DNS. That's also you would just rather than using the 600 you use a TNT but the singular >> pretty pretty similar. >> Yeah, it is >> pretty similar. >> So is it revolving all the time? >> We would use the TNT.
>> Yeah, you would use a TNT but it it's the same. You get just the same reduction. reduction. This is a lesser size because we're looking at just a twobedroom with a threebedroom design, you know, and it's a three-bedroom design, but it's wavered down >> to very close to what the twobedroom is,
>> but we wanted as much leeching as we could get here for the longevity of the system, >> we got to move it off a little bit. >> Yeah. I mean, we can we can delete one section of those units, you know, but I'd rather not. And certainly the homeowner next door is aware of what we're doing,
>> right? >> And he's all too familiar with his soils cuz he just did his system a while ago, too. >> So I I would definitely um for for me to I would need to have at least one row taken off the end, which is what? >> Yeah, we'll do that.
>> Yeah, 46 in I believe them. >> Um and you did add in >> 48 in actually. >> Did you add in the jumpers? I see the >> unit ends. >> Yes. >> So the ends are cal into that.
>> Yep. The end units actually account for um >> 18 in or something. >> 56.64. If you look at the design criteria, it spells out you've got 32 chambers. >> Okay. >> And then the units are 1 and 1/2 ft. We added the 2 >> and 12 ft. Yeah. And and we always, you know, we get a little bit of leeching
out of the um end units, but we always try to count them into our calcs. Um and then I I think um Mr. Matt I think you're aware too always when we do we have been in the past allowing a well
to go in down there um the variance to the septic we've been making them tie in when water does come available. >> Yeah. >> I mean I think we did it already on one or two of your properties >> street I think. >> It's brutally expensive though isn't it? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah it is. And I don't understand why Ton and New Bedford to that draw your water like they draw our water from Rochester, too. I sit on a four town um water commission that we get absolutely no credit for all the water that they draw out. And in fact, the D came down
on us with our wells within our four towns saying we were overusing. But what had happened was there was a trench dug out many years ago from like Stimpet Pond that goes into Asaws and we're trying to block that off to keep our own water to oursel and you know you
wouldn't mind so much >> about 15 years and we've been trying to get them to resolve some >> well you know we got enough water that they sell the water off to Freetown and um a Kushnet and all these other places you know and it's it's very difficult but you know my committee is >> at war for short of a better word.
>> All right so let's go back to this. So, we're going to take off one row. That's 46 to 48 in, depending on whose measurements you go off of. I I'm not an engineer, but I know that you can't give two. So, um,
now taking that row off, you probably don't need, I'm guessing, the second one, but would you still want it moved anyway to get the the willpower? give another variance to this one down to like 95 and then >> yeah move it down there. >> You're gonna at least keep you know I I
agree the weld's got to be 50 from the tank which just move it a little further. It's five more feet. It doesn't >> but you give a bearish this or you a little just move it five more feet. >> Yeah. >> But does the calcs come out now Ed? I mean we're going to have to redraw this anyway. I don't you know >> Yeah, we can do
>> just to see >> um >> by taking that back row off. >> Yes. >> I I don't know. I didn't I didn't do it. But um it's like I said, it was about 269. So yeah, what take off about 45 gallons per day, which is
it's going to be close. You might have to go a little wider or something like that. But >> we can't go any wider >> because of the existing wells there that we're going to encroach. I understand an existing wells there, but like you said, if if we have to
move the um >> I mean, you'll still get at minimum 220 gallons, but we wanted to max this out for the longevity of the system. >> We're amendable to whatever you want to do it, obviously, >> you know, but that was our reasoning that we wanted to have as large system. >> A little wider over here. I mean, this
well's 101. So if you went one more row with >> what's the row the width was now three. >> Yeah. >> So if you went three more feet that way and we just gave another bearing to that wall of a couple of feet. >> You could also do pipe and stone like said cuz if you're taking the credit for
the singular you're not getting a credit for the chambers. >> Yeah. >> So you could just do pipe and stone and just do it whatever dimension you want. You wouldn't have to do it in 3T or 4ft increments, you know. >> Yeah. We we prefer the the the chamber units rather than stone anyway. >> Okay, that's fine. I'm just saying just
threw it out there. >> I mean, the air within these systems is what helps break down the nitrogen on top of the dite system itself. And we like a lot of air with them. And we've got these concrete ones that are 2 and 1/2 ft deep by 5 ft wide. I don't know how often you can use them in Lakeville with a high water table, but they last
forever. I've had some in the ground for over 30 years and they've been inspected and they're working beautifully with a family of eight. So Bob, if we took if we took one row off the back and that went >> up the side, >> we did a north side. So water's running
down anyways. >> Yeah. >> Well, you're going to be encroaching on this guy. >> No, I know. But the water's going down. >> Yeah, but that well's 101 ft. You're only going over three more feet. So we knocked that. >> We're not within 100 ft, which is the minimum by Title 5. >> That's why we have to give you another varian.
>> We give you a variance. >> We have to give you a variance on that. >> So we're adding variances just to accommodate this. It doesn't seem to make sense in my >> We're trying to meet maximum compliance to all the other things and being on the property line is not even any compliance. >> I think what they're saying is they
would rather have three wells 90 ft away than two wells 90 ft away and 160 ft away. The the idea is to get them all equally away. >> Well, the homeowners may not feel that. >> Well, we're concerned with overall safety. So, there's a big difference
between 60 ft and 90 ft. And that's we'd rather have three wells 90 ft away than you know one well 90 ft away and one well 60 ft away you know just >> um but again I think so were those homeowners notified those two weren't >> correct
>> yeah they weren't so you would have to come back and notify >> the affected ones were you know but the other homeowners >> and you're opening a can of worms >> we would have to notify them or do piping stone and call it a day >> I hate them they last.
>> Okay. >> Would uh but by taking off one row, we're not going to meet the 220. >> You you might I I didn't count that out. Um >> so if we can take off one row and it meets it, just take off the one row. >> Yeah, we've take off the back row. >> But that's that's helping you out with
the property line problem. It's not helping you out with the the weld to the tank problem, >> right? Yeah. That has to get moved. So you have to we shouldn't get close to this 80 ft to that. If you take out one row plus those end units there,
>> these are what 4 ft in length. So you could theoretically be adding from our own proposed well 63 to 67. I don't know if that would be amendable. >> No, cuz then you're pushing it back to the property line. >> No, >> if you take out 4T and then push it 4 ft
back the property line. >> No, 4T off the end units. That row in the back that's against there. If we delete one of those units and leave it as as it is, you know, we could push it back a little bit.
>> Well, we got to gain two ways. You need another 5 ft to keep at least 50 from the tank >> and then you need to 5 ft from the property line. So, we got to gain like 10 ft. >> Push it over. >> Well, then we conflict with this guy's well. I mean, we can push it over and
we're going to and it's going to be lesser with this guy's well over here. You know, it's 5 ft. I mean, it's six of one or half a dozen of another. It's accomplishing about the same, but I just want to make sure everybody's amendable to what we have here. >> Exactly. Yeah. We're just trying to meet the minimums, >> right? I mean, people down there, they
don't have that. That's still way more than most of them have. >> Yeah. And it's a shame, as I say, that the water districts don't help you guys out in town with, >> but especially where we're given variances to certain distances.
Um, and they're all exact. I mean, without this redrawn, I don't see how we could approve this tonight. >> Well, we can redraw it. We'll we can do that. That's not a problem. >> We'll continue it and then notify the any >> Yeah, we're going to have to have time to notify those people.
>> Just notify that other one and then then you have plenty of room to fit it. I mean, >> and we're going to work with you. It's going to get >> We're not trying to No, this is definitely an improvement, too. And then add that row here. Take that out. Add it. We'll just It'll be 96 ft away.
>> Oh, we can come 5 ft closer to the foundation, too. You know, I like I like a minimum distance there. >> Yeah. Often what we do >> 15 off the foundation, so I I don't think we'd lose too much by >> Yeah, you could go close to the foundation, but a lot of times they put a liner there.
>> And with these soils, you know, that the liquid's not going anywhere. >> Yeah. I I think everyone would >> So I mean with that width, you know, you only you'd go from a 15t set back to a 12t set back because you're 3 ft wide. >> So I got a question, too. Uh how close
is the water to come in down this area? >> Who knows? >> Okay. I I didn't look at the map in a while, so I didn't know how close it was and if possible. >> Oh, that that would be awesome. >> We're just saying because that would be an option if if we eliminate the new well all together. That changes all kinds of things.
>> I think you and me are going to be in the ground before that pipe goes in. So [laughter] >> So there's no water available right now. >> Okay. >> And what's you know >> you can stay on the share well for like a year that that would make everything work and then you know what I mean? That would make things easier. But
>> yeah, that was my comment was messing everything up now for like street committees to try to put it in themselves. >> Yeah. and still have to pay the monthly fee on it. >> That monthly fee is absurd. You know, I mean, if you guys are going to take the
expense of bringing a water line down there, they shouldn't even hit you with that considering >> they're taking and they're selling their water to other towns. >> No. And I think they're still hitting you for the five grand, too. >> Are they really? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> They're selling that water >> for the new well. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. I was going to say these are wells. >> No, no, no. Not our [laughter] not our wells. I'm talking about the water districts. >> No, but there's water in this neighborhood as well. They're trying [laughter] they were selling the well. >> I'm talking about the ponds that kind of
dictate and they're not helping out the homeowners here is what I'm saying. You know, they should kind of back off on the fees. >> Now, Lou, what's the reasoning for the new well? Just do you want to be on your own? Well, you you don't want to have a shared well with this property or that well doesn't have enough volume.
>> I just think at some point I sell it, I don't want it to be messy and >> Yeah. And I I don't know. To me, it's just it's better. I know the water ain't going to be down there. Not probably in my lifetime. But >> um >> cuz again, you know, we try not to add
new wells down there for obvious reasons. I mean, >> especially lots, >> especially when you need variances to put the well in. >> No, even even the guy's thinking of selling his house back there. And I just >> you know what I mean? I don't want it to get messy. Now where this was served by
a well it's not like you're shutting off seasonal to do it. It's this was served by a well >> and even though there's some variances I mean you know the well goes down the neighbor doesn't want to pay so you're out all the money it's it there's things like that that like we wouldn't do this
if it was on seasonal water and you wanted to put a well to make it year round but that's not the case. Saudi service by a well. So, the well's not bothering me. But there's just uh and if you and if you talk to Ed for a while, I mean, he knows what we're looking for >> to just to fix this stuff. There's
there's multiple ways to fix it that um you know, he'll be able to let you know from talking what we're looking for tonight. You you won't even have to probably come to the next meeting if he's happy with everything that they >> So, just just to be clear, we'll eliminate >> I think we can vote. I think >> Well, they don't have to, but I mean you
could just have to be on the meeting. >> Oh, no. Yeah, it has to go on a meeting. I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying they wouldn't have to come to it. >> Yeah, >> cuz like we've already discussed it. If Ed says, "Yeah, they took care of all your concerns." >> We'll just do >> We can just vote on it. Yeah. >> So, we'll eliminate one row of the
infiltrators towards the back of the property. >> All right. And Ed will move the well up against um >> Lane. Yeah. Um even though we have a um less than 100 ft distance with a guy across the
street. >> Okay. Um that >> yeah on this one. >> Okay. >> But if it goes to 101 to 98 or something like that. >> Yeah. It's just that we try to avoid variances at all costs, you know, and and and once again, Title 5 says you got
to, you know, come as close as you can to a road, but this makes more sense to me, too. But but again that's if that's across the street that's downgradient. So we're less concerned about that one than the ones high >> one. It's really hurting the high one. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're not hurting the neighbor at
all by going closer to them. No. >> Yeah. >> Nor is this going to hurt your neighbor over here either, >> right? >> Or the neighbor over on this side. >> Yeah. >> You know, and once again, these are denes to your own property and your own well you're putting in. So you're not >> Right. >> All right. So you think you'll be able
to have this squared away in two weeks? Oh, sure. >> Next meeting. Yeah. So now, >> and you said I want to um allow a little bit of time there to notify the butter that we'll be encroaching within 100 ft on that property. >> Well, now we just said that we don't need to, right? Because it's their well. >> Yeah, it's true. You you don't if it's a
well, you don't for this one here on um one or three. >> Push it over here, right? You don't need to even nullify approve. Okay. >> Cuz you're the Joe >> Wells said I approve it. [laughter]
>> I just want to make sure that the the abuter at lot 163 across the street where we're going to encroach on that 100 ft that we at least give him notice >> that if he's got any objections to that. You know, I don't think that he would, but >> yeah, we're not required to do it, but you that's a nice thing to do. >> Well, you don't have to, Sandy, cuz it's
it's a well. It ain't >> Yeah, you don't have to, >> right? No, but it's >> but if you >> I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's it's me that's going to be getting taken away. >> It depends what he's going to do with his property, too. Sometimes that come becomes an issue if you don't have appropriate distances. I don't know what
he's got. >> If we stop if we stop to talk to about everybody in that neighborhood about stuff like that, >> we'd be here for years. >> Yeah. >> Because everyone's talk to everybody down there. >> Yeah. So, anyway, why don't you if you have any questions, get a hold of Ed tomorrow or whatever on Friday. >> Get it all squared away. Um, I'll make a
motion we continue this to our next meeting. >> So, just to be clear, we're going to take one row off. >> Yep. >> Of here. And I'll redo the leeching on that. >> Move the well. >> No, we don't even have to just take that off and we'll meet this requirement here.
>> 28 28. We cannot do the keystone involve this guy over here. >> 20 >> 28 one system here that you're going >> you know everything we want, right Ed? We can we send it to her in writing. >> Uh yes, and I'll read it by you guys.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Or I'll CC you guys. >> So just so we we'll send Ed'll send you >> appreciate that. >> You know, like the keystone >> and just one row chambers and just move the well. You you don't need to notify the butter if you want. You more than welcome.
>> We should >> and you'll be on the next agenda and if you want to come. >> Yeah. Okay. >> You can come to the meeting. If you don't want to have >> But if you get it all to Ed and Ed says we're good with it, then you don't need to come again. We just give it to our next meeting. >> Is that cool with you, Ed? >> Yes, it is. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> It has to be [laughter] a motion. Second towns I go to >> on May 20th. I didn't have the date when I made it. >> Second. [snorts] Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I I >> And I just want time to get that
certified notice out. Can you just follow one? Just let Ed know. >> Okay. >> I just need two minutes, guys. >> Yep. >> Sounds great. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> And Ed, on that one, um, would you put, uh, the deed restriction, too? That's normally on the plan, right? >> Yeah, it should be on the plan.
>> The deed restriction. >> Yeah. So, usually when you're saying a line >> Yeah. take off a chamber to >> well and and you're fine going closer to the foundation going 10 ft off the foundation with a liner. >> That's okay. >> If we have to if they have to add a row >> Yeah. I I don't like said I don't think
they do. Um >> I don't think Yeah. If you're going to take off and row it makes 220 >> be the best case, >> but if you have to line um wait, how you doing?
I'll wait to come back to be the next one. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Do we have the amount of cards? >> Yeah. Did you get the green cards? >> I gave it to you. >> Oh, you already gave a friend. >> Mhm. >> Make it as easy as possible. The thing is there was only two
copies on. >> Okay, good. Okay. Thanks. >> Yeah, most people bring them to the meeting. That's why >> you would ask for my trying. >> No, no, you you're ahead of the game, so it's good. It looks like it feels the same way I do
cuz I had to walk to We get old. >> All right. Sorry, everyone. Keep going there. >> Yep. Next on the agenda, nine, Longpoint Road. It's a new stable permit. Um, I'll turn it over to you, Anthony. >> I'll talk. >> Yep. I just state your name and
>> Shannon Petty. >> Yep. So, you're the owner. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. And we're looking for two >> two horses. Yes. two horses. Um, all right. And they're already there,
correct? You were unaware you needed the permit. >> I did not. I've had I've had horses there 52 years of living. >> My next question. So, there's always been horses there. >> Yeah. There's been a little spread here and there, but 90% of the time they've been there. There's been some horses
there. I got my first horse there when I was 9 years old. >> All right. So, I had um I can probably turn over to you. Um, so by our four, you're supposed to have what? 60,000 ft to have two on. >> So he's >> and 43,000.
>> Yeah. So he's he's definitely got the room for one and the second one would be 60, which he does not have. Um, but Jared was out there and he said the paddic is is good size and everything. The horses are well taken care of. The stables are all good. Um the other issue
with there is the the fence is on the property line and normally we keep it you know there's a set 20 foot 74 um and I believe the abutters are here too on that. So >> okay >> which side is the fence on on this planet or is it all the way around it?
>> Um it's it's on all three sides. >> All three sides it's on the property line. >> Yes. Okay. And >> it's always been there fence. >> No. I put the fence up 8 years ago, 9 years ago. It was a property line fence.
>> Okay. >> And what uh what do you do with the manure? Do you truck it off site or? >> Yes, I do. I use some for compost. I do some of my own compost and I have a bunch of vegetable beds. Um but the majority of it does get taken off site.
>> There was issues with manurs going. It was um >> that's been addressed. It >> It's been addressed. We have someone come I have someone come in on the weekends that that clean the paddic. >> Yeah. >> And because it was woods on three sides, sometimes if they it was close to the
fence, they threw it over the fence. I noticed how bad it was getting. I'm like, we got to cut that this and it was almost the same time that this came about. So it was like I said almost the same amount at the same time. But that has yet now been stopped and I can clean
it if necessary. Okay. One side one side I'm already going to because he's I'm I'm clearing some of the brush over there and I told which is the beach side. I told him when I do I will clean that at the same time and but I can do all three sides if
necessary. I don't have a problem with that. >> Did you say the neighbors? >> Anyone like to speak on >> You want to come up? You got anything to say about it? >> Just state your name and you can come up. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Can we hear you on camera? >> Oh gosh. >> Yeah. [laughter]
>> So, we're on the back side. >> The back side. Okay. >> Um, >> quicky shan circle. >> Yeah. Uh, so we're cleaning up the yard and that's when we noticed when we first moved, you guys didn't have the horses, which is fine. I'm not opposed. >> Jennifer Mtos, Minardo Mtos. Thank you. >> I don't mind the horses at all. I think
they're lovely. Um, I don't even mind the fence. Um, but I was cleaning the our woods area and I noticed lots of manure all on our yard on our side and we do have well water and I have children and it's just a lot of manure
that I did not I don't know who did obviously >> Nope. I like I said. >> Yeah. Um, so anyway, we just noticed the manure and that was really my complaint. Not about the horses or anything like that, just the manure and the fence is fine, but the support beams are a good 5
ft or so. I can't measure exactly about that into the yard >> into our side. Um, which and >> so I had the land surveyed when we moved in. >> All right. I'm okay with where the fence is. >> Okay. >> I don't want you to move the fence. I don't want you to lose your horse. >> Okay.
>> All right. I'll respect that. >> Okay. I don't want any more stuff getting thrown over the fence. >> Absolutely. >> I've had a lot of problems with Shane, your son, over the years. >> Yeah. >> I've a lot of problems with him. >> He does no longer live there. >> Fair enough. >> So, I don't want any problems with any of my neighbors. The only thing I
request is >> keep the fence where it is. >> Keep your horses >> the the posts that are holding up the fence. >> Yep. >> Flip them to the other side so I don't see them and we can live. >> I'm actually in the process. I don't know if you've noticed replace because what I did I did quickly and I didn't
cement. I'm not in the process of putting metal post and cement won't need supports. >> Oh, perfect. >> I'm in and I've been doing the sections that were already really busted, but I'm working my way around. I can go faster on the back if necessary
>> on the back side. So, or I can do what you just said also >> to your discretion. >> I can take I can take those supports off. Not a problem. >> Yep. If I'm happy where the fence is. >> Okay. All right. I like that's a lot of work to move. It doesn't bother me. I enjoy looking at your horses when they look over the fence. >> Okay.
>> But it's just the post and the manure. If we >> like I said, I did not realize how bad it was. >> I have I went I went cuz sometimes the branches come over. So I was trimming branches over and I noticed it. I'm like, "Yeah." And I told we're going to stop. >> Yeah. It was a fair amount of long >> and like I like I just said to him, I
can clean it though. >> What's there? I I can clean. I got a track. I can clean it. Find way. I can still clean it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I can clean it because it does no bong. >> Okay. No problem. So
>> So if he makes his best effort to clean it and fixes the fence. >> Yeah. I I would not want him to lose his horses. I grew up with animals like I don't want to take anybody that >> I have no desire to. >> So I guess my question is they're not meeting our town ricks. So,
this is like one of the first we've allowed the fence closer than 20 that I'm aware of. Right. Cuz we >> I think we did it on another one on um >> street. When you're talking about >> Yeah. Cross street. And then you you wanted to check with a neighbor and then you checked with a neighbor and it was
okay. And then um so we have done it before. >> And they're saying they don't care if they move it as long as they fix it and stop throwing the stuff over. >> And like I said, these are our rigs. It's not state rigs or anything like that. It's just our right. So if we want to wave it, we can
>> but we'll have to make a motion to wave it. Correct. Cuz it's >> correct. It is a waiver. Both of them both the two horses is a waiver and the the um set back to the fence is a waiver. >> I said um set the fence to the property line is a waiver. >> Yeah.
>> But yeah, you you are allowed to grant them though. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, they're the only neighbors that showed up on >> But it is on the property line all the way around. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah, >> but nobody else. Okay, >> he he he did notify everyone. >> Yeah. No, and I've been consistent for
over 15 years. I grew up in Brockton. Only time I saw horses when at the track with my father. [laughter] If they want to if people came and said, you know, and opposed it, then normally I didn't give the variance. And if nobody came and opposed it, then I I normally do for like, you know, like
that's a half of the space you need. It's so for one horse. And if you're willing to do everything they're going it's going to make them happy and they're the only ones here, I'm okay with them. >> Okay. >> I think I mean I'm good for the the life of these two horses. I think if if one
was to pass, I don't think we'd want to continue two horses in perpetuity because of the size requirement. >> But I'm good with the current horses for now. You know what I mean? Like if one was to pass away, I wouldn't want you to run out and grab another one. You [laughter] know what I mean? >> We're giving Wolf to that anyways.
So that's that way it doesn't carry forward, right? Like you guys >> decide you're going to sell and an expert's like, "Oh, we already got two," you know, >> and and we have done that in prior permits. >> Okay. >> Cuz next you know, it perpetuates and we get those two horses for the next
homeowner for another 40, 50 years. [laughter] >> I've been in that house for 58 years. I'm not going to lie. And we'd rather have somebody come back to the board >> to, you know, ask for the variance again and have the abs notified if they wanted >> cuz by then their butters change too.
>> People might not want. >> So if if one of your horses died, you'd be fine. And if you wanted to add another one, you would have to come back. >> That is not something we're going to >> We won't be will not be doing that. You don't even have to put that in there. That's not >> Is we all good? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> All right. I'll make a motion that we um just wave the fence off the property line. >> Do you want to say so? >> What kind of time frame are we talking about with regards to flipping the um >> I can do it this weekend. >> Oh, wow. That's kind of quick. >> No, no. I I'll do it this weekend. >> As long as it's on
>> Saturday. As long as it's not like one year, 12 month if I put like 30 days stipulation. Is that a sign? >> Yes. >> All right. So, I'm going to start again. And I'll make a motion that for nine Longpoint Road that we give a variance to have two horses for now and when one
of them passes away then it goes to one. We're going to wave the fence set back. We're going to allow it to stay there. This is all conditioned on within 30 days. The manure being cleaned up to the best of the owner's ability and the
fence, all the posts and supports come off the button neighbor's home. Is that good for everyone? Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I I thank you for >> Thank you everyone.
>> Thank you. >> You want to come to the dumpster since the rest of the comments? >> They'll go. >> Next on the agenda, Black Crows Coven Coffee Company, 202 Main Street, Elliot Farms, pending inspection and paperwork.
It's a new mobile food permit and a new milk and cream permit. Ed, I see no one here to talk to it. >> Uh, yes. So, I was out there today. Um, they're I think they're doing Sundays on Elliot Farms. It's just a coffee shop. It's not coffee shop. It's a coffee trailer. Um,
you know, they still have a few things to to iron out, but for the most part, they'll probably be starting soon, you know. >> So, do you guys do another inspection? Um, I don't have to do another inspection, but they have to send me a few things. Um, there was a couple
things that they're missing and that I that I requested during the inspection. >> So, so are you comfortable with an approval based on your Okay. Your when you get all the paperwork back in? >> I am. >> Do we need to do two approvals or we doing both for it's a food permit and a
milk and cream? >> Those are separate. >> So, you're going to do two separate. I'm good. Nobody's here to speak to it. >> All right. I'll make a motion that we approve the new mobile food permit for Black Crow
Coven Coffee at 202 Main Street Elliot Bombs. >> Second. Well, pending inspection. >> Pending not another inspection, but Ed's uh getting in the rest of the paperwork and the permit being completed. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? I
>> I'll make a motion that we approve the new milk and cream permit for Black Crow Coven Coffee, 202 Main Street, Elliot Farm, pending again that Ed gets all the uh paperwork he's missing. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I >> I
>> I. Next. Tracy's Kitchen, one Atkins a new residential kitchen permit pending inspection and additional paperwork. Nobody's here to speak to this one. Ed, uh what how do we stand on this one? Yeah, I still need to do an inspection and we still need the paperwork. Um they
want to work at um the Conway Conway is having an event um this month and so we had to get it on this meeting for them to do it. So it's on the meeting, but we you know we still need a fair amount of stuff. >> We still need everything. >> Yeah, I'll put a time frame on okay with it if you guys are.
>> I'm okay with it. Right. I'll make a motion we approve the residential kitchen permit pending its inspection and getting the rest of the paperwork for Tracy's Kitchen at one Atkins Drive. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I.
>> I. Next on the agenda, A andd Heritage Restaurant Incorporated doing business as the Back N Pub. It's a new food establishment permit and a new milk and cream permit. I see no one here to speak on this one. So head >> I'm going to abstain from this cuz I just sold it to them.
>> Okay. >> Um yeah, so they have everything. Um you know they they kept the same staff so all the certifications are the same and everything. It was just like you said as you said it was just a transfer of ownership but it's still the the regular place that we've inspected dozens of
times. Um so there's no issues there. >> You good there? I'm good. Make a motion we approve the new food establishment permit for A&D Heritage Restaurant Incorporated doing business as the back nine pub. Is it good?
Is there a pending inspection? No. >> Do you still any more inspections? Ed or we good? >> Uh yeah. No, we don't need an inspection on this one. >> Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I abstain. I'll make a motion we approve the new
milk and cream permit for A&D Heritage Restaurant Incorporated doing business as the back nine pub. >> Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I. Okay. Next on the agenda, discuss EOM recycling existing permits. Um I see
they are here. They're coming up. This is a uh a hauler trash hauler. How you doing? >> Good. >> Good evening. >> Good evening.
So, this is regarding the our permit fees that we charge. I believe that Ed's been >> Yes. So, um they um EMS um u took over for Hiller disposal. Uh Hiller's been working for some time. Um
and when we contacted them, they did everything initially. They did their permit, they paid their permit, they submitted their application. Um and we notified them that there was a fee per dumpster. Um, so when we requested the list of the addresses that um for all
the dump um where they have the dumpsters, they said they didn't want to give us this information, nor did they want to pay the fee per dumpster. And he has some reasons for not paying. >> So if I can start off just by
introducing myself, if that's okay for the board. >> Yes. Yes. >> My name is Michael Dulis. I'm an attorney at Blank Rome in Boston. We represent EOM. With me is Lou Tarantino, who's the owner of EMOS or EOS, excuse me. >> And I'll just let him introduce himself
just briefly to the board. >> So, uh, like Mike said, I'm the owner of EOS Recycling. We're 31year-old, uh, trash and recycling company based in West Bridgewater, Mass. And uh you know recently uh year about a year year and a
half ago we purchased the uh Hiller Disposal Company out of uh Middleboro and um you know we've we've operated here in town for at least 25 if not more years I've been here. Um, so this this was up until when I I purchased Hiller's
company the first I heard of uh you know this kind of uh you know list or having to basically give up a a customer list you know I mean obviously for the Lakeville customers and following that
with a a fee that I was told was $20 but feel free to mark it up $5 as an admin fee and you know it just you who told you that? >> Um, well, it Ed Cohen, I believe, was um
>> Yeah, we sent a number of emails showing that it's a $25 um fee, but the town gets 20 $20 of that. >> Yeah. >> Um for the um we charge per dumpster. >> Maybe you said I could mock it up to 30. I could be incorrect on that. No, I
think it's we we charge the town charges 20 and then there's a $5 um administrative fee that some uh >> go to the holler. Correct. >> In any event, uh yeah, I I didn't I operate in at least 25 towns. I mean, Northshore, Cape Cod, all the way as far
as Worcester and everywhere in between. I mean, the footprint's a good size footprint. And uh you know I I haven't seen anything like this where you know uh I'm handing over a list that we just paid an undisclosed amount of money for. Um you know we're also in document
destruction business so there's privacy concerns. Uh some people are on private ways down the end in culveracks off the road. They care not to you know whatever they have a dumpster but they don't want anyone knowing that's that's their thing. uh you know obviously uh that's
the the bigger main piece of it and the fact that after 31 years of business this is the first town that I've I've operated in that is asking of that although I've been on the EOMS side not the hiller side been here for a lot longer than 25 years but uh you know a
lot of stuff comes to mind uh you know we we retain Blank Rome Law Firm for you know a lot of the business that we do and Uh, I asked Mike to to come here and and sort some of this stuff out and just see what, you know, he's dug up. It
doesn't does it's not sitting right with me and then but I yet I want to be fair with everybody and gather a little bit more information and and just really be fair with it. So, so if I can for clarity of the record, what brought us here today was Lou received notices from
the board of health initially on February 19th of this year and then again on April 6th of this year. Between receiving those two notices, I understand that Lou sent a response letter to the board of health and I
think that letter may have crossed with the second notice. It did. Um, so the positions, some of which that we'd like to address today were in that letter. I don't know the the rest of the board members have seen it or not, but >> um, so we want to address some of those points and expand upon them to the
extent possible. So really it boils down to two primary uh, issues that we have, both of which are related to the dumpster fees. So we're not talking about the $400 or the $200 fee uh, or permit for you to do business in town.
We understand the basis for that, the authority for that fee. As I understand it, uh, Elms pays that fee and there is no issue there. So, these concerns relate only to the permanent and temporary dumpster fees. Uh, and there's two buckets. They fall into the legal
authority for the board to require EOM to collect those fees on behalf of the town. And then the second is some practical considerations surrounding the management oversight and processes uh related to that arrangement.
So first these fees these dumpster fees that is being asked to collect as other haulers are I presume and understand in town >> u these are town imposed fees on the residents or taxpayers. Is that correct?
>> Correct. So in essence, the town is requesting or demanding that EOS and these other haulers act as a collection agent or arm for purposes of those fees. Is that correcting?
>> Yeah, I don't know. It's >> I'm a builder. I have to pull the building permits and cuz the homeowners don't. He installs septics. He has to pull the permits. The homeowners don't. Electricians pull the permits. The homeowners don't. Plumbers pull the permits. The homeowners don't. The
electrician pulls for smoke spoke inspectors. The homeowners don't. So, we're doing the exact same thing that every other agency in the town does. There's a $25 fee to have a dumpster. We're dealing with stuff all the time. Mice, they're not being dumped. They're
not being cleaned. It got put on my property line. And that's our fee. It's a one a year fee for $25. And that's our fee. Just like every other department in this town charges a fee. >> Understood. And that's imposed on the taxpayers and the residents. >> It's pays its own
>> it's imposed on those who have dumpsters. Just as those who do electrical work have to pull an electrical permit, those who do septic work have to pull a septic permit. >> People that don't have a dumpster have to pay for a dump permit to go to the dump. >> It's the exact same thing. >> And not everyone will be a resident cuz
there's businesses that rent them, too. >> Right. >> And plus, we'll have a record of where every dumpster is in town, which as the board of health, we want to know. extremely rare for a resident to come in and pay our permit fees in every aspect. Not just talking about trash. You know,
I've never had a a homeowner come in and pay the well permit fee. The well driller pays the fee. You know, the electrician pays the fee. >> And that may be common in the town of Lakeville, but as you just heard Mr. Tarantino say, he does business throughout the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. and not another town or
municipality has this arrangement where the hauler is required to collect the dumpster fees on behalf of the town from the residents. So, as as we understand it, the
board of health's authority to regulate trash removal in the town derives from the Massachusetts laws enabling statutes, specifically mass general laws, chapter 111, section 31A and 31B.
and I'm paraphrasing now or or characterizing, but essentially that authority is directed to public health concerns, sanitation, waste bans, nuisance prevention, things like that. So, we're not aware of anything in that Massachusetts general laws enabling
statute that permits or directs a town or the board of health in a municipality to deputize or to delegate or in this instance require the hauler to collect those dumpster fees on behalf of the town. So,
our our question is is >> it's a firstance not a fee, >> right? >> So, you pull a permit to put a dumpster down. But a couple questions. Um, one, we notify all our trash haulers when they get permitted in the town. >> The fact that your client was working
for 25 years in our town without a permit, that's another question. >> That's what he told us earlier. He's working in Lake. >> We're talking about two different things now, right? He has to pay a >> No, he's supposed to all people, all trash haulers in town are supposed to be
permitted through the board of health. And he's saying he's working in the town for I'm not sure if I am permitted or if I I may I may have been permitted for for the last 1015 years. I I I didn't come here to discuss that portion of it. There's no problem.
>> Two different things. It's it's >> the $200 to $400 license fee that he >> which which he's paying now. And I think I may understand why he wasn't paying that. >> About the fees then. >> I might have been paying that. So you should have known about these fees then too if you
>> go back to 2011. Not like these fees were just imposed. >> Yeah. No. And and like I said, >> so >> I go back before 2011 as EOS and I didn't know anything about these fees. And other towns do do this, but they're
not putting it on the backs of the trash haulers cuz remember, we come and go. We we come into the town, someone doesn't pay us for 3 months. The last caller pulled the dumpster out, called saying they need a dumpster. We don't know that they're notorious for not paying. We put our dumpster in. They don't pay us in 60
days. We can't contact them. Certified mail, small claims, and we make a business decision to remove the dumpster. Now, they didn't pay us for 2 months of service. And now, we have to pay $20 as well. We're on the hook for
the $20. And again, I was told by Mr. Cohen personally, verbally, uh, you know, I don't believe I had any email exchanges with him. I know I spoke with him a couple times personally and I said this should be on the taxpayer bill, you know, just like any I live I live in Brockton so it's you know you got water,
you got sewer, you got disposal and trash on >> doesn't have that though. We have a dump that you pay a permit for or you have a dumpster and you pay a permit for. >> Right. But but the point I was trying to make is when I had asked them where's your fail proof system for this? In other words, you know, we we pay the $20
and in 6 months we're out. Who's prorating this? who's paying attention to it. And our fiscal year, it doesn't it it's not we're not working off of contracts that start on July 1st or end June 30th. We could we could start service on February 1. And so
regardless, who's prrating that? And I was told that we would work something out with the prorations. I said, "With what? You have no accounts receivable, no billing department, no customer service. Who's going to post the checks?" And so who's doing all this
work? I'm not hiring somebody to do all of this work. And and furthermore, you know, our CFO in our legal department isn't going to just take kind to us just, you know, cutting checks without proper invoicing,
>> you know. So you you plan on invoicing us. So I think part of the concern that he's touching on here is that this arrangement or this process imposes a financial risk on EOM and >> to every contractor though if an electrician pulls a permit and the and
the homeowners don't pay him he still had to pay it and go after the people right that's how that's how every other works in the town >> analogy is correct and that works across industries >> I mean if if there is no authority within the enabling statute to require
you to uh saddle the haulers with the burden of collecting those fees then that doesn't make it right. >> I mean I have a dumpster it's not with um >> this company but I have a dumpster in town and I have the monthly dumping fee >> and the first I believe January 1st on
my January 1st bill it has $25 added on my bill says town fee town permit fee $25. So your company's not even paying it's the homeowner is paying it in their fees. So I don't even understand argument.
>> You're tasking him with collecting those fees or or fronting them. >> But he's collecting the money for >> um hauling the trash. And just like he was saying with any professional, that's built into the fee. But if if if the
homeowner doesn't pay, you know, this additional $20 fee, the resident doesn't pay it, then EMS has to absorb that fee. Correct. >> But it's a permit. If the electrician doesn't if the electrician pulls a permit for the house and the homeowners
don't pay him, it's the exact same thing as every other permit in every other town. >> It's exactly the same. The homeowner understands they have to fee. >> He pays a $400 license to operate his business in the town. >> Yeah. >> This fee is separate from that.
>> It's per dumpster though. >> Correct. >> So, it's a fee to the homeowners. >> I don't understand. >> We don't either. That's why we're here. >> No, I'm just itemizing your bill. You collected it. I mean, >> yeah. Well, it's also it's also increasing all of our insuranceances,
our general liability. It's it's adding risk. It's it's unnecessary >> insurance and liability on fees. >> Yeah. IGL is predicated and based upon our gross revenue. It absolutely is. I didn't say workman's comp general liability. >> Yeah. >> So that you were just making
>> revenue if you're paying it out though, right? I mean, if you're if you're paying it back to the town, then it's not really a profit, right? >> Well, there's a markup on it. >> Well, the insurance company doesn't care what what our payables are. They don't care if we make $1, lose a dollar, or make a million dollars. It's if we're billing out x amount of dollars, then
slowly our our insurance goes up because it's based off of revenue. And if we are putting it in our bills, then you better bet believe. >> But it should be a line item that shouldn't count as your revenue though. So I don't understand why it's revenue. >> And to your point about, you know, you collect you collect it, you're done with it. Yeah. In a perfect world,
that's the way it would happen. But >> how much are you charging to pick up every day? Like this is 25 bucks. You're charging like eight times that pick it up, right? I just don't understand. >> Yeah. And none of the time, >> right? None of the taxpayers here that I've talked to >> I think even aware to me. >> I know it does.
>> He's right there. >> Like I said, >> you just said no one's aware of it. He's right there. >> Two dumps and I have two dumps just like you. >> Yeah. >> And Trevor's always had to pay it. >> Yep. >> He's never had a problem doing it all these years when he sold me the company. >> And Trevor has and it only fell on your radar because you guys didn't see that
check this year. So he started doing a little bit of work. Even though I've been at Elliot Farm for a lot longer than that and and you know a bunch of other >> I'm I'm concerned by the characterization that it's not a lot of money. Like what is the big deal? I think this is the fundamental point.
>> Yeah. >> What we're supposed to vote on here. >> It's a vote. He he wanted he wanted >> I was here forformational purposes to be honest with you. We have no problem putting a a form together. I mean, we're we're willing we're willing to to work
with the town, but we'd want to put a form together and say, you know, obviously blanket it with the actual form from the town, but say now with your permission, please sign here saying it's okay for us to give up your name or at least your address, just your address
to the just your address to the board of health. And you do understand that your board of health voted this fee in and that you've got to pay it. Yes. And if they're okay with that, no problem. Now, we go to the second part. Please write a check to Lakeville Board of Health in
the amount of $20 or $25, whatever it is, and and we'll deliver it. I mean, it's, you know, it's not that we don't want to play ball, but we we don't want to do all this work. This isn't, you know, this isn't for us. I mean, it's not our fee. It's not our fee. >> So, you're saying that you're just requiring addresses at this point or
addresses. The the idea is we get a lot of complaints about dumpsters and if someone on 8 Main Street says, "Hey, the guy on 10 Main Street put a dumpster on my property." I need to know where who dumpster is on 10 Main Street. So that way I can look up at a list and I can call him. It's like, "Hey, you put the
dumpster on the wrong property. It's on your neighbor's property, not theirs." And cuz we we're constantly resolving problems like this. Weather location, overflowing dumpsters, dumpsters with no lids in the summer time. >> Yeah. And so we get a lot a lot of
dumpster complaints and and just that list of us being able to follow up because sometimes it's the homeowner's problem and cause of the problem and sometimes it's the location do it and I can't blame the homeowner if you know
the dumpster truck driver put it on the property line or in the neighbor's property. That's in those situations I have to reach out to the the dumpster company and that's why I need that list. So, it's not it's not just for um revenue purposes, it's for
accountability purposes because like I said, we do get a lot of dumpster complaints at the board of health. >> And I think part of the issue was the confidentiality concerns if he's going to be handing over a list of all his customers, including both names and addresses. >> It's an electrical requirement. You have to give the address the way you want to
do work. >> The town has exactly the same thing. >> The town has names and addresses of everyone in town. So, it's not like new information you're giving us. We just >> you can look it up right now. Anybody in town's address and name. And the point I was just going to make is, you know, if he's required to provide that list of,
you know, all his customer names and addresses, then that could be >> we don't want the names, just the address. Still a customer list though, >> just this >> something we paid a lot of money for, but we're handing it over, right? >> And we require that to have a dumpster >> in some towns. Does the board of health for instance Littleton have uh
confidentiality procedures in place related to the provision of those lists? So our concern was, you know, there's just a request to hand over your entire client list. You know, hypothetically, a competitor, somebody does a public records request search. Okay. You know,
we want that list and now, you know, a competitor has the information for all his customers. That's the second aspect that I don't know the answer to. That would be a question for town council, >> right, >> about if we can sign a confidentiality into public records. I don't know that. I'm not a lawyer. or if it falls within
the exe one of the exemptions to the mass public records laws based on personal identifying information. >> I mean it is a genuine concern of mine. I I have spoken to some people. I know there was a round a way back with uh the folks from Republic Services on not
wanting to give that list up and and I know someone representative was here from that company. Um, you know, I also work with every single competitor and I have for as long as I've been around and as long as they've been around and uh I I'll be the first to tell you right now, this is not a uniform
uh thing you're asking for. I mean, Hillary Disposal, true did give you that list with a check or Pam did from his office, but that's not all of my competitors. Certainly not EOS and certainly not a few others, too. You may
want to check your records or if you're that sure that you've got each and every single hauler in this giving you their list, whether it's a name or just an address with that fee for each one of those accounts. You may want to check cuz I don't believe you have them all.
And I'm not here saying, "Hey, unfair advantage. I'm paying more than my competitor." I'm not here to say that. I mean, we're we're in a lot of towns. I've got a blemishree track record. I'm not a troublemaker. We do a great job. We got the newest fleet literally on the road in this industry. No one's going to deny that, including, you know, the
waste managements and the republics of the world. And and so I I appreciate you wanting to know who's working in operating in your town. I agree with you. And I'd be I'd hold the same position. I just wanted to let I just wanted you to see it from our end over
here that you know, giving up a list. Hey, here you go. And uh and then on top of all of that, you know, everything else that goes with it, concerns of I mean, you're right, it's only $20, but 2 months from now, we see that they're not paying, you know, can't get them. We
just decide remove the dumpster and you say take them to court. I mean, it's, you know, that's not going to happen. But it's it's just another 20 bucks. And again, only 20 bucks. But you add this all up. I mean, it's >> Yeah. But how many times has that happened? My dumpster has been went hella since he started.
>> Yeah. No, I'm not saying it's happened with with anybody in this room and you know, I'm not saying that. Um, but yeah, it happens. It happens a lot. But how often has it happened where we have to pay $20 to have a dumpster somewhere for me for EMS? Never. Never. I mean, I I
know there's town of Waltham reached out to us the other day. You have two dumpsters behind building up in D and my office manager looked it up, gave her the customer's information. Those got to be permitted, inspected, and permitted. All right, there you go. It's Mike and here's his phone number and that's the end of it. I mean, maybe there's a
dumpster fee for him, but it wasn't they're not asking us for any anything. You know, she just wanted to know whose dumpster it was. So, we gave her the information and same thing with you. If you called our office and said, "Well, hey, we're getting complaints over here about a dumpster being on a property." For starters, most people would just
call the company. Most people would just call that big white number on the dumpster and get it resolved right away. It's when our company would refuse to do something and help somebody, then it escalated to maybe Border Health or somewhere was they need some help and authority and regulation. But again, we
don't operate that way. And and maybe everybody tells you that and then they do something different. But the number's on the dumpster loud and clear. And if there's an issue with a dumpster and it needs to be pulled forward, our customers going to call, "Hey, my neighbor, she's a pain, but she's [clears throat] right. Can you move the dumpster too forward?" We take care of that. I mean, the day you have to get
involved because we're not satisfying or or any company around here is not satisfying something that they should is is probably where you just pull that $200 permit and say, "Have a nice day." And this is why, you know, >> we've already had complaints on your thing and they called us, not you. So, you know, this was probably about 5
weeks ago, >> you know, that we got a complaint on and then we looked up the thing and it was a mess and you know, and then you again you put it in the wrong location and they were going to get fined by their housing association $50 because it was too close to the right of way. It was actually in the rightway, I believe. And
>> down at the clocks. >> Yes, it is. Okay. >> Isn't that an HOA? Isn't >> that Isn't that Isn't that handled by somebody? Well, their concern is when you put in the right away, it's the the emergency vehicles because those are narrow roads. When you put the dumpsters
in the rightway, you don't have emergency access and things like that and the fire trucks can't get down there. That's what she was concerned with. And then, like I said, and the HOA on top of that gave her a $50 fine. And then she was like, you know, she said last time she can pull it. She moved it
when it was empty, but she's not strong enough to move it with due. And I said, you know, do you want me to call them? She says, "No, no, I'll I'll tell them myself, but like I said, if if it if they were going to continue the problem, yes, I would have been calling you for that." So, we have they called us first
and I told them to call you guys. And then if there was an issue beyond that, then I would do it. And then usually what I do is I threaten to, you know, look, you have a permit with us, you're jeopardizing a permit by putting it in the right of way and blocking emergency vehicles. >> But it was resolved. >> It was resolved.
>> Yeah. And and there was another issue with another couple down the very very end. And and the name and the address escapes me, but they got a $50 fine because the dumpster allegedly was too close to the street, which when we
measured it, it was 11 1/2 ft away from the street. And the very first house on the right, >> again, it's a right of way. It's not the street all the We're probably talking about two I think we're talking about two different places. But there is somebody in that HOA there that and we've received several I don't want to
say complaints but phone calls on asking for help because I from what I understand this HOA is newer in there. There's a gentleman in there that is going around and using his word document to generate fees and and nothing to do with with our company but doing it with
everybody. And so uh I I ran into a a contractor doing some work on a church up the street in Freetown and he happens to live in there and I had stopped by to drop a card but happened to get him he happened to live there and uh he he just mentioned that to me and that was on uh Monday and so yeah there's a there's
there's a a tough tough HOA thing going on in there and I guess the guy >> but not just there we get them all the time and you just stated nobody would call us that they call the number in the dumpster but now you know at two instances they called us. That's what we're talking about. We're not saying we're not even blaming guilt of fault,
but like it's just a permit for a dumpster. It's it it's like a permit for anything else in the town. And we need to know where they are cuz when there's rats or mice or trash or they don't stop dumping it every two weeks and they start dumping it once a month and all the neighbors are complaining, they call
us. They call us. We It's just It's a regular thing. >> And what's that fee cover though? What's that? What's that fee? >> Him going out there, us issuing the permits for the for the dumpsters to do an inspection. If somebody calls, he drives around during the year and checks to make sure that they were the, you know, they got a permit to have it in
this part of the yard that the neighbors, you know, we got him to move it cuz all the neighbors were bitching and that guy agreed to it, but then they the new guy started putting it where they said they wouldn't put it anymore. there just >> I think you should just assess the fine if there's a problem somewhere and and
we're not upholding our end of it or taking care of what we're supposed to be doing. I mean we we we do assess fines um like I said we you know that is one of our uh tools that we do when when we have issues like that but said >> majority of them get resolved and we we
don't go to fine but >> the residents aware of these fees I see that they're you know in the regulations Barry but not in the fee schedule and the reason for the question is you know whether EOM would be required to be explaining these fees to their customers
you know when they see >> we had public hearings years ago ago when we adopted all this it was posted in the newspaper we had public hearings multiple withhaulers and in some >> resto if there's a new resident in town that wasn't here in 2011 that you know sees a new light item on its invoice is
that on the town's fee schedule anywhere or you know is that incumbent upon EOS to can check that tomorrow >> to explain >> um so everyone in in Lakeville pays a fee for for trash whether you're buying
a bag to go to the transfer station, which is what they're $3 um $3 a bag or using a dumpster. Pretty much everyone in Lakeville pays a dumpster fee, >> right? My question was just >> the question of quantity, how much it is,
>> if it's set forth in anywhere in the fee schedule or you know, >> because inevitably it's posted somewhere. >> Um I I don't know. I would have to >> because inevitably it's going to raise questions, you know, from some customers, maybe not all of them, but Yeah, I can check on that.
>> He's left in a position trying to justify, you know, a fee that's being if it's not there, I can add it. >> That's what I mean. We can we can just put on We have a website. >> What we can posted there. I mean, it it's >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> on our website case if it makes you guys happy. If it makes you feel comfortable so nobody questions you, it'll be right on. >> No, we're just we're just going to ask all the customers to to go pay the town the fee you're supposed to be paying them or whatever the case is. Just just like the homeowner that needs an electrician, they they understand that a
a permit needs to get pulled whether they want to pull it or they want to have the electrician pull it, which usually they offer cuz they got to do the inspections after and all that stuff. >> But home owners can't pull septic permits. They can't pull building permits. They can't pull electrical permits. All the contractors have to pull the permits.
>> Yeah. Why not ask the regulations provide for the homeowners to pull the dumpster permits, do they not? >> I don't know. Well, I don't have a copy in front. They do public facing. >> It should go with the real estate cuz like I said, if if we're gone in 60 days,
>> who where's the prorate come from? Where's the rest of it come from? I mean, you know, I know I know the comment was it's only $20, but I'm not the one complaining about paying the 20. It's it's collecting the 20. I >> I guess in in the situation that we pay it's 20 bucks per year for a regular
dumpster. It's $10 for a temporary dumpster. So, if for whatever reason you stop business halfway through, then you would just pay for the temporary dumpster, which would be $10. You know, you would cut the fee in half. >> Okay. We're paying the 20 up front. I mean, hey, we could >> Well, no, no, we we don't pay up front.
We we send you uh a thing and ask for the list over the last 6 months. So, you're paying after the 6 months. >> Yeah. So, you can't get stiffed the way we do it. >> But if the customer doesn't pay, >> he still can't get stiffed cuz he cuz it's after the time's up. >> Yeah. So at the end to absorb that fee,
does he not on behalf of uh >> after two months he wouldn't he wouldn't be doing it anymore. He'd haul it out if they didn't. >> So after you collect trash for a year, then you pay the the $20, >> right? But he would have to he would have to stop providing service to a
customer who's not paying that town and post fee. >> Sorry, I don't I don't understand that. He he if he's collecting trash for a year, he pays a $20 fee. If he's collecting trash and for whatever reason they stop after 6 months, he would pay a
$10 fee. >> It's not a prepaid, it's a post. >> Post pay. It's postpay. >> Okay? Cuz that's not how the permits work. >> And we don't ask everybody to tell us every time they put a dumpster in. We just say two times a year, just give us a list of those people because we don't want people to have to every time a new
customer signs up or leaves, do it. So, we just base it on who was there at those two times during the year. I >> I think there may have been some confusion because we didn't know that there was a transfer between Hillary and you um until 9 months after it happened. So, when you were you had been hauling
trash for 9 months when we found out, then we got you permitted and then 3 months later we asked for the list thinking, okay, you've been hauling trash in Lake for one one year. We asked for that list and maybe you thought it was prepaid, but it was actually postpaid because you had been hauling trash for a year.
>> Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you, we're not sure what to think about it because it's it's 31 years of business. Nobody I've got plenty of people still left with me that have been with us for 25 plus years that still haven't heard of it. And we're like, well, who's going to handle this? Who's dealing with this? Who's going to who's collecting that?
You get the million questions and that's just on our rent. What about what about the the taxpayer? So when we go and throw this $20 or $25 fee on there, I mean, they complain about a $3 fuel s charge and legit fuel's doubled, you know, in the last 3 4 months, but we go
and throw a $20 or $25 fee on there. What do you think they're going to say when they're paying $60 a month? >> We passed this years ago and Derek's bill shows it once a year. This isn't a new thing we're just doing to you. >> Yeah. Happening in this town for years. >> Even if you're just throwing trash in a
bag, you're paying $3 a bag. So $25 per year, that's a deal, you know. I mean that that's that's like eight that's like eight bags per year. I don't know anyone. >> It's not my fee. I mean, >> we're also conflating the concerns. It's >> not my fee. >> It's a question back there. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I was actually listening bridge at 237 Main Street. >> Yeah. >> And um >> So sorry, can you please come up to the microphone to speak? >> Yeah, sure. Um, so I you guys were talking about um licensed electricians
pull their own fees and they have to pay builders, plumbers, etc. They also have a license. That's why they have to pay their fee for this trash pickup. If somebody needs a dumpster, me, the homeowner, fill out an application with
you. I pay the fee, give it to him, he places it. You can't compare a tradesman pulling a license. That's why the homeowners don't do it. >> He has a license here. But in a lot of the homeowners, >> a license for electrical, a license for
plumbing, a license to build. It's completely different. All trash. >> All right. But there are also examples where the homeowner can pay that the homeowner can in in the uh example of electrician. Yes. Someone with a license
has to do it. But if you're doing if you're doing a title 5 inspection, the homeowner can come in and pay us the $50 and then you know the inspector does it. Normally the title 5 inspector does it. It's not required. The homeowner can pay, but
normally the professional does it. In this in in the example that he gave, it's electrician. Yes, it's because of a license. Right. But that's not all of them. We have a lot of fees and and some are professionals and some are not. But in most cases, the person doing the work
is the one that's paying. So it's, you know, it's both. You know, there there are some like you're what you're saying. I understand what you're saying that in that case there is a professional doing it, but there are other ones where there's not professional do it. In fact, there's other ones who pay for a $3 bag.
>> Yes. So a $3 bag at Ace Hardware, are they giving you the money? Are they collecting it? >> That $3 goes Yes. >> just for the bag? >> No. the the Ace Hardware takes the money and then pays that money to the town of Lakeville.
>> Ace Ace does not ACE does not get that $3. The town of Lakeville gets that's a perfect example where the Ace Hardware is actually the collector for that. But that >> they're using it as a loss leader to get people in their store. It's making them money.
>> However they're doing it, the Ace Hardware is collecting the money and that money goes to the DPW and the transfer station. agree to that. They could just say, "No, we're all set." >> But it's a perfect example of what what he just said there. >> Yeah. I just I just figured like if somebody wants a dumpster, they go to
you guys, you give them a permit, they pay it, and then he drops a dumpster. That's it. Like I don't understand why you would want to put all that on somebody cuz I've changed dump dumpster companies before. That'd be a That'd be so hard to maintain. That's like impossible.
So to do that to somebody helping our town, we go to the dump. We pay $60 to go to the dump and then we have to pay every time I go in there like, "Oh, it's another 20 bucks, another 30 bucks, another 40 bucks." >> Exactly. And and and so when you have a dumpster, you're paying $25 a year. I
mean, like I said, the person going to the transfer station is actually paying more. >> I'd be more than happy to pay it, but why are you putting it on him? >> Why do why do we put it on Ace Hardware? >> Cuz there's people in their store. >> This doesn't get burned by this
business. know where all the dumpsters are. >> You don't I know you're an honest guy. You would tell >> drive aroundce a week to drive around. >> But you regulate septic systems in restaurants. Cisco foods hot and food list for the last that's two different things. You're talking you're talking
about a list he's not [laughter] fees. True, but he's not doing a list. That's one thing for his. We didn't want him to collect the fees. >> But you regulate other industries. Do you have the septic guys list? Do you
have the food service restaurant? You know, if Cisco Foods supplies Baldi, do you have that, you know, does Cisco and Reinhardt and Gordon Foods and US Foods have to give you a list for every restaurant? You regulate all the restaurants. >> We're we're conflating two things here. The customer list should not relate to
the fee collection of the per dumpster fees. There is a reason that no other town, at least that Mr. Tarantino is aware of in the Commonwealth requires the haulers to collect those fees on behalf of the town and I think it's a statutory authority issue and
then we're conflating that with the customer list. Those are two separate issues. The town may want to use the customer list to ensure that all the fees are being collected on behalf of those dumpsters, but I don't think that's the purpose of why customer fees are or customer lists are permitted to
be >> we're not lawyers. We had this all reviewed by town council before we had those public hearings and posted in the newspaper. So, so we'll reach back out to them with your concerns and let you know what they said. >> But the town council gave an opinion as to whether or not the board was acting
within its authority to require the haulers to to collect these fees. The town council gave an opinion on >> So, they did. We don't do anything without getting be okay >> 15 years ago. I can't I wasn't on the board. >> I wasn't on the board. >> Yeah, we don't mind sending a message out there. We just >> I'm happy to to talk to the count town
council as well to the extent that's possible. Um you know I know we've been going on for a while here so be respectful of your time but >> um you know we appreciate the opportunity to be heard here and uh address our concerns. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So we'll reach out and just
clarify. >> Yeah. >> Just for your concern, right? Ed. So, we'll just send I know we don't want to keep sending town council stuff, but if it's >> well, if we have to, we brought out a lawyer, so we need our answer to respond. We don't have a choice. >> That's not why we we've got them on
retainer. I just I mean, it was I think it's educational because >> we just a few weeks ago, I don't even know who town council is right now to be honest, but I'll find out and I'll send it to them. So just hypothetically, if EOS were to collect checks from each
resident that has a dumpster, checks that were made out by the residents to the town of Lakeville or the board of health or whoever the appropriate uh entity is. And EMS simply, you know, turned over those checks without having any of the money flow through, you know,
their financial systems, you know, bearing any credit risk, uh, >> you know, any accounting financial risk. And I see your point about the list if somebody else came in cuz it's a public document. So I don't know the legality of that. I mean it's like if somebody's building a 100 condos and somebody wants
to come in find out well who the contractor is. I'm going to bid on that job. >> Like the issue is not not wanting to provide a list and cooperate. It's just concerns about the you know processes and controls that would keep that confidential. And and as I mentioned, you know, for instance, the town of
Littleton has in their regulations that there should be uh you know, a confidential process um protecting those lists. >> Okay. >> But we all there's no problem with the homeowner writing a check directly to
the town and just passing it on. >> And there's no problem with us taking the form and and and sending or shooting it out in an email or if it's still paper mail saying, "Hey guys, take care of this. get get a fee up. >> I guess if they if they all paid by
check for that, we would that would be the list cuz most checks have an address on it. >> Yeah. >> Unless it was a company or something like that, but >> and at the same time, you guys are collecting money without an invoice or a bill number. I'm not sure. you know,
you're going to get some stickler that's going to want a receipt from somebody that's going to say, "Hey, where's it's kind of like, you know, our our office is the same way when we buy stuff. You know, did they charge us for tax? [clears throat] Is it a taxable item? Are we tax exempt? I mean, what's the invoice number? What are we referencing
here? You guys are going to send us a an invoice for each and every single you want us to create the list, do the multiplication, send you a a gross check you can put in the bank. I mean, there's got to be some accountability for this in the form of posting that for certain, you know, I mean, like I said, I can
play ball. >> When the check gets deposited, it's listed all the people I mean the addresses that the permanent fees are. >> Yeah. If if right, if they're putting it on the memo or whatever, whatever, however they're >> Well, no. When the when the halls send us a list, it says two main street, 10
Main Street, 20 Main Street. We know those and there's $25 allocated to it. And that's all on record that those houses have dumpsters and they paid for them. You know what I mean? We we make it as complicated as people want, but we've never ever since we passed that had a single complaint from a resident
or a hall until today. So, >> like I said, 15 years I've been here, not saying we didn't pay the the the, you know, the $200 three $400 permit, whatever the annual permit is, but that part of it where we got to go and collect money from all the customers,
$20, $25, that is that is new. And if you look in your records, uh, in your books, you'll see that we've never paid it. And I know two other haulers right now, and there's probably more, but I only asked four. And, uh, two of them got back and said, "We don't pay that." So, not going to name them, but you know what I mean.
>> Are they are they permanent in the tunnel? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like I said, the only two we know of is uh and again, you work with Republic every single day. And and uh who's the other one? Troop, I think. You know, those are the two that was the second Republican who >> Republican troop, I believe. Uh they
they knew about it. I'm not saying they pay. I'm saying they knew about the per dumpster fee. So, you know that again just I asked two and the other ones that I asked were like no idea and I'm in the no idea category myself just being honest with you, you know, but I mean
and and you think about it. I'm here advocating for my customers like so they don't have to pay an extra $20. It's a pastoral. I'm not I'm not here to cause trouble and stop problems. It's just this would warrant a little bit of admin here. I'd have to put a little bit of admin on there. you know, he mentioned Mike mentioned credit risk, but I mean
it is only 20, but I'm looking at it's a little bit of admin work here. It's a lot of explaining because people going to say, "What's this fee for?" You [laughter] know, so it's like I got to explain your fee and and so I don't know. It's just uh I'd rather not get involved with something that has nothing
to do with commercial trucks and dumpsters and, you know, if it's DOT, you know, or or something that someone that actually regulates our industry, I would be okay with that. and you guys regulate our permits, our annual permits to be able to come into the town to to
service stuff. >> So, I I think now with this, we're going to reach out to town council. >> Okay. >> And ask for their clarification on this if it's uh to your point that you're asking if it's allowable to what the way
we do it and we'll have send their response to you. Um and then we can go from there. I don't know if we need to continue to the next meeting on this agenda. Um I don't even pull out town council's opinion. >> Yeah. I mean
>> they're not real responsive sometimes, especially if they've changed. So um I I would not continue it and then if if we need further discussion, we would request you back, I guess. >> Yeah, we'll be we'll be >> all right. >> Gentlemen, thank you for your time and
appreciate everything. >> Yep. >> All right. Thank you. Have a great night. >> Thank you. You too. Thank you. Next on the agenda, review and approve meeting minutes as typed from January 7th, 2026. All three members were present. I have no problems with the
meeting minutes as typed. >> Chris, >> good. >> I'll make a motion we approve the link for Board of Health meeting meeting minutes for January 7th, 2026 as typed. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? I
>> I I >> Let's push this one off to the next meeting because this is going to be another long one. >> I'm with you on that one. But do we we already posted in the paper though, right? So >> yeah, we posted in the paper. >> Yeah, we already posted >> the fee changes. >> We already posted it for the to have the public hearing because you had to post
it so many weeks out. >> Okay. >> So why do we got to talk about it though? >> We have to agree on the fee and what it's going to be. >> And you have to agree on the nitrogen if you want to do that. That that should be quick, right? >> All right. Then I wasn't here for that one. What did you guys come up with?
>> So, uh, proposed fee changes actually. >> Yeah, I lost all my paperwork. I got to find We still have a bunch of different things. I think Rowley had one. We We still haven't agreed on which way to go
with a fee schedule to change it. So, that's still up in the air. And then the DNight uh system over 2,000 gallons a day was going to be the other change that's on there. Um I'll wait till Chris gets
back. That one should be easy. Um Ed, you can probably speak to that how you going to you how >> this is our rag and then um I just highlighted the yellow addition to that. So that's an existing rag for our nitrogen. Um
when we required a denitrification >> this is count or you added it. >> The yellow's added. >> Okay. >> Um so the the everything else is our rig and then the yellow is proposed. So it's not permanent yet. >> So maybe you can uh I'll read it.
>> So we we already have a current rag uh requiring a D9 system when you don't meet nitrogen loading. Um, but it does not cover uh large systems
cuz sometimes you can have large systems on a 20 30 acre property um where they say it would meet the denitriification loading. Correct, Ed? >> Yes. Um, but it really doesn't because you're dumping 9,000 gallons into under
one acre, a half acre lot, just size, even though you have the whole land around you, you're dumping it at one spot. Um, and you could have a well per title 500 ft from it. >> Um, so it should be a dite system when
you're dumping that much into one area on large systems. Um, so that was the change we're looking to make. to require any system over 2,000 gallons to be a dite system. And it would just
be added to our already regulation. Um, and it would just add a line that has a flow design greater than 2,000 gallons per day would be added into that regulation. That's what we're proposing. >> Yeah, I'm fine with that. We talked
about that before. >> So, that was the DITE rag. This is highlighted where and so this is discussion for >> the changes we're going to make to our regulations. Um you'll still be able to come to the next meeting if you want to
have any discussion on it. Um but we won't and we don't open it up to discussion at the next meeting but just voting yes or no if somebody shows up. Um, >> no. We have to That's advertised. People get the right to come and talk.
>> Yeah. So, yeah. >> So, we go to the public hearing, people, we'll take anybody's comment and then >> then we close it. >> Close it and then we take a vote. >> Yeah. >> After any more comments, >> right? >> So, we're proposing to make any >> system over 2,000 gallons per day a dite
system. >> Um, and then also we were looking to change the >> and these are our rigs. So we could wave that if somebody had 15 acres and they were going to be 1,000 ft from the closest neighbor, right? We could we could wave that. >> Yeah. So it's the same as just how we
wave the other ones. And then like I said, and it's the same thing. They say if you want to wave it, come in and show, okay, which way the groundwater is going and questions like that provide the information. >> Yeah. No, again, if somebody got 15 acres and they're going to be 1,000 ft from a well, then that's fine. But like
this is for people that want to put it like right up 100 ft away from somebody else's well and then that's why the nitrogen becomes an issue. So correct and it it clearly states in this right like it it said the board may grant a variance for this requirement in
accordance with the criteria set 4 and 310 CMR 15410 and then it gives a list of things the applicant must provide for information asking for this which is wells topography lot size groundwater flow
soils identified soil log um so it's our same rag but nitrogen load We're just adding that top. >> We're just adding it for 2,000 gallons a day and over. >> I'm okay with it if you guys know. >> Any comments? >> No, I assume >> we all agree on that.
>> Okay. And then do you post that in the paper also? What we're changing? Is that posted or No, >> no, it's not posted there. But like it just says the um the it does say dartification, but it doesn't have that exact verbiage. >> Okay. Do we need to post that or no? Um,
no. I think we just say that um if you have any questions, just see um contact the board of health and and like I said, you can you can see it there. >> Okay. And then the next one, Ed, I'll let you talk to the fee schedule again because I know
just to clarify again what we're changing or looking to change and why. Does anybody watching it? >> Yeah. So, currently we charge around $300 for um a typical septic system and then we
charge $700 for the larger ones. But the larger ones can get up to 9,000 gallons per day and we're only charging $700. Whereas we're charging $300 for a 400gallon per day system, but we're charging $700 for a 9,000galon. So, it's
not really equivalent. You know, if we're going to, you know, charge, you know, if we're going to charge um um per septic system, it should be it should show it because otherwise we're kind of incentivizing someone to build
these huge systems like Derek was just talking about. It's like, well, why should I buy 10 build 10 small ones? I'll just build one big one and stick it near whatever um stick it near some guy's house. And then that guy is that area gets overwhelmed with nitrogen
and things like that. So, um it's just trying to even it out a little. So, the so the the larger systems pay their share basically. >> And usually on larger systems, there's more inspections involved um because they're done >> throughout, you know, a slower time
because it's such a large system. Some have sewer mains that run down the road in the sewer manholes to >> Yeah. So, usually >> pumping station to the field. >> Yeah. And a lot of them have multiple fields, too. They'll have like two fields where they'll do one field one day and then the next field the next
week. >> Just to explain to anybody watching, this won't affect a regular resident in a single family house at all. This is just for somebody builds 20 condos and they try to pay less, you know, than
than 20 homeowners would. So, it's just trying to even it out a little bit to make it um fair. and cover our cost a little bit better too, especially when it comes to inspections. >> Yeah. And cover all the extra inspections involved. And again, you know, sewer mains, force mains, whatever
has to go in that gets done on multiple multiple different times. So, the only thing I was looking for, Ed, I know in uh your comments you'd sent, you'd sent some proposals of other towns, I believe, of the fees other
towns are charging, just so you know, for realistic with other towns and they're not crazy on the fee schedule, which I don't. >> Yeah. So, um charge people by any means. >> Like there's one town that charges um so they charge 300 for a septic like us and then um Oh, no, sorry. they charge 500
for um a typical septic whereas we charge 300 but then for every,000 gallon they charge an extra $300. So it's $500 but if it goes to a,000 now it's $800 and if it goes to 2,000 now it's $1,200. So for every,000 gall they throw on a
different one. And then there are other towns that charge per variance and things like that. We were talking about that. So there are some towns where you just have so many fees and um I I think we discussed this earlier but we didn't like this system because that way like
um last week or not last week last meeting uh we had our single family house come in with 17 variances. Um his fee would have been over $2,000 if we had used Taton's fee schedule. But we
don't use Tatons. We try to give the single family homes smaller fees and then if someone's going to put in an 8,000galon system, okay, then they should get hit with a larger fee, not the like Bob was saying, the three or fourbedroom that those fees will stay at three $300.
>> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. No, I don't want to affect single family people at all. >> Yes. So, we're not looking to change our fee for under 440 gallons per day as it is. is still going to stay 300. >> Yeah. [clears throat]
>> And our fee is the same across the board right now. >> Yeah. So, it's it's $300. Um but once you get over 2,000, it's um $720. >> Okay. So, we're looking to keep it at the 300.
>> Correct. There's nobody no change. >> Everybody's in agreement. 300, >> but we're looking to change when you get over or you could go over 2,000 like the other town had any, you know, $300,000 >> over a,000 over 2,000. There are I
haven't seen a a a residential home with over 1,000 gallons per day. That that's that would be over nine bedrooms. So when it's unusual to have So once you get over a thousand, you're talking commercial systems basically. >> A multi. >> Yeah. Multif family as well. So it would
be this this you'd still have the standard 300 and then you'd add 300 per thousand. So it' be 600 for 1,000 gallon per day. >> Yeah, I I didn't that's that's what one town did. Um but like I said, um you guys can do whatever you want. You guys
can pick a number, but you can do it like that. So it's for every thousand you go over or you can go over a,000, over 2,000, over 5,000, you know, pick a number. But like however you choose to do it, whether it's the over a thousand's not a bad idea. I
>> I just like simple simple. >> I like the range one which I think that's what the range was when we had seen before, right? Cuz it was >> you could set >> the per bedroom one bought. Did you guys talk about it? That number was ginormous by bedroom [laughter] for like the
shared septic system. >> Yeah. It came up to like >> $65,000 permitting fee. >> So yeah. No, that's >> um >> unrealistic. Yeah. So, the range is per gallon is kind of cool. Like I like that. >> I'm fine.
>> So, do you want it every every thousand? >> Is that the simplest? I mean, I think that's the simplest fairest. >> How much? Every,000. >> So, what's the number for every thousand? So, 300 for anything under a,000,000,000 gallons. But once you get over a,000,
how much do you want to add? >> Right now, we're at seven. >> Um, >> over a,000. >> Yeah. So, I mean, >> so you would have been 7 or 750. I think I wrote down it was 750. >> I think it's 720 actually. Um, just kind of an odd number, but um, >> so if we were at 3,000 over 1,000,
every,000 gallons, you'd be at 600. So, you'd actually be cheaper. >> So, you went over 2,000, you'd be at >> 900. >> 900. And that's when you start jumping up. Well, we could go we could go 700 after you get to a,000 and then 300
every additional thousand or something over that number, right? >> Yeah. I'm just trying to whatever >> it's like I don't want to go 700 over every additional 100, but you know, again, the the difference right now between those two systems is substantial
for him. So, um I mean I think I think if we left 300 and the 700 and then pick the number for every th00and over the over the thousand is the easiest way if we're trying to keep it simple. That's just me. You guys can come up
with something else. So, we'll just um just so people anybody watching will understand. So, so if we have 5,000 g system hypothetically permit, what would the permit be if we did the standard 300 plus anything,000?
300 per thousand like other towns do. We're not picking this number. This is other towns are charging this. >> So, um 1,000 gallons would be 600, 2,000 would be 900, 3,000 would be 1,200, and 4,000
would be 1,500. So a 5,000 would be 1,800. >> Okay. >> Well, what I just said would be 1,700, I think, >> right? 1,000 would be 700. >> And then 300 300 300 300.
>> You're jumping in more higher by keeping that. >> We can get we can get just get rid of the 700 and just keep it in threes if you want to do it that way. It makes it a little simpler. So it's just, you know, 369 12 15 18. >> Yeah. It's $300 up to 1,000 gallons up
to9 999 gallons. And once you hit 1,000, you we're adding 300 per thousand. >> Yeah. So then it would be 600 >> and that's not right. >> Yeah. So >> it simplifies everything and everybody knows that. >> Right. I'm okay with that. Just write it down so we don't forget.
>> So just do the three. So every three every,000 gallons add 300. >> Yeah. And what town other towns is anybody watching just so they know? >> Yeah. So, um, Raleigh does it that way and we we we gave the Taton example as well. Um, but like I said, we didn't different complicated the way.
>> Correct. We didn't like Taon's example, but we liked Raleigh's example that that was a lot the 300 per per thousand. >> I agree. Going by the variances where we're in Lakeville and all these zone A's, we have up to we've had 20 24 variances on a twobedroom house.
>> I forgot about that T one. I >> I remember having to bring drop that stuff off my way home from pilling. >> Yeah. So >> when we were filed something >> and I'm like geez that's a big filing fee. Yeah. [laughter] It's $100 very
>> and I apologize. I've never been jetlagged before guys. It's >> it's like 1 one in the morning for me right now. So let's discuss proposed fees. So that's discussed. So we're all in agreement and and again you can come to our next meeting uh before we vote and change any of these. That's what we're looking to do.
>> And feel free to reach out during the to the office, talk to Ed if you have questions ahead of them. And if he thinks it's something that we might have missed, he can send out an email and so we all know that that's going to be a question for that meeting so we have time to take a look at it.
>> Right. Sounds good to me. >> Uh, next, discuss recent pending items. Uh, Ed, do you have anything? And announcements. I want to put them both together to Ed. >> Um, no announcement. just it is a really bad tick season. So just if you are out in the woods um either do peromethine or
um bug spray there. There are been a lot of hospital visits for ticks. So it is a bad year. Um it's not mosquito season yet. Although what you can do now um now is when we'll get the rain. So by keeping the no standing water and stuff, you can
really prevent the the mosquito season later on this year. But like I said, there's there's no risk of triple E now. But like I said, you can prevent the risk by keeping everything dry. That's it. >> You guys are good. >> Ending with board. I'm good. I have no >> I'm good. Motion to adjourn.
>> Second. >> All in favor? I I >> I have I don't Did you pull it?