##VIDEO ID:dfgbFhDo5d8## Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all right um is there anybody in line for Citizens comments yes no okay um we'll now move on to discussion items the first first is discuss current and potential amendments to the tree preservation ordinance I don't think oh it is I'm gonna kick things off um but we do have um I don't know if everyone's met Zach he's a city Forester um so welcome Zach um I'm gonna kick things off and then he's going to go through some examples and then also with us tonight is Grace Benson um she is with um in the city Forester department so the two of them did um a lot of the lab work in putting this together including that Excel spreadsheet it ended up being chopped up but I sent that to you under a separate email um that Excel spreadsheet that had all the examples of all the other cities so um they've been really helpful in putting all of this together um but I'll kick things off um but we're here just to have a plary conversation with you about um some amendments that we think could be helpful to our existing tree preservation ordinance that really aim at preserving trees as well as having some real tools for reforestation this is the first group that we're talking to um I understand that this was not on one of the annual items um through your retreat in the winter time it is oh it was oh well even better that's we talking um I couldn't remember it was an add-on um it's kind of a passion of mine I know it's a passion of Zachs um but we understand it may not be a passion of the council and so before we spend a lot of Staff resources we wanted to do a check-in with you um kind of get a temperature gauge from you if this is something you think is worthwhile pursuing obviously then we will have to run it through other groups including the parks and Natural Resources Commission Planning Commission um development community and so forth ultimately it would result in a text Amendment which would then have to go back Republic hean and and all of that but um you guys are the first um the staff memble did include a couple policy questions that I'll come back to um but I just wanted to go through a few of the kind of review points that Zach put together um that really kind of get to the heart of what we wanted to speak about and then he'll go through some examples so I think we all understand kind of the benefit benefits of trees um from both a property value standpoint water quality standpoint shade um and people just like treats you know really adds to the environment the neighborhood and the community character and so as we continue to develop we're really going to be transitioning soon from agricultural really developing on Greenfield agricultural land to sites that are heavily treed and even on Parcels where we have the largest the most amount existing tree stock we also hear a lot probably more um Zach and Grace um a lot from the community when trees are removed on sites um his phone's ringing um sometimes more than ours and we have seen a lot of developments even lately that um the entire site's been cleared so we get those phone calls and then the kwood Middle School site um we heard a lot about that when lar was kicking tires on that piece we also know that um this kind of work aligns well with Community Values from Invision Lakeville from you know access to Natural Resources preservation of those types of resources so just to cover a few things that our current ordinance does and does not do so the current ordinance requires and applies to all subdivisions so whether it's residential or non-residential the ordinance applies it even applies to a new home construction on a custom graded lot it requires a certified tree preservation plan to be prepared for every single one of our subdivisions but it kind of stops there it really doesn't have much else in the way of teeth if a developer identifies some significant trees to be preserved within their subdivision then the ordinance as well as our development contract requires them that measures are made to as properly regraded and so forth to protect those trees and then there's some teeth in here that if a few trees were identif IFI to be saved that those would have to be replaced but it doesn't have an overall overarching threshold for what should be preserved or then a replacement standard um it does require prior to the release of security and again Financial Security is required for the trees that are been stated to be replaced and prior to the release it requires written certification that the tree preservation plan was followed and there's several different bullet points that have to be followed in the ordinance for that and then it does really put the onus on the developer to determine whether or not they want to save trees so by not having any kind of a threshold or teeth it doesn't really push a developer to think in the mind of how could they preserve trees when they're working through a development plan um the ordinance um does not um have like I said any specific preservation of trees on site so it's very development developer driven in terms of how they lay out the site um it doesn't provide any site specific requirements um based on the line type wooded versus agricultural it does not provide a mechanism to ensure tree protection measures are installed and maintained during construction and it doesn't provide any planting guidelines to promote tree diversity or lay out very clear strict um inspection requirements for the release of that security and again finally it doesn't have any kind of reforestation requirement in it so some of the pinch points as we consider an ordinance is for one on a contractor or developer basis they're required to prepare the tree survey which is very costly and very time consuming but it doesn't really give much guidance as to what to do other than that and for the city's standpoint it doesn't really provide us with the tools that we feel are necessary to kind of establish standard tree preservation that aligns with Community Values so some of the goals that we have for the ordinance would be to better address the land cover to understand where future development is headed and to be able to protect those areas retain natural elements that contribute to the sense of place support development but provide guidelines and flexibility to encourage creative planning to preserve trees and provide a consistent level of City Review um for both at the development stage when we're looking at plants to preserve the trees but also at the inspection process some of the benefits um again would be the result would hopefully be more tree preservation just from a standard minimum requirement but then having a reasonable replacement standard and when we think about the developers perspective most Developers ERS who and I'm going to pick on the Nationals any national or even our midsize developers who work in any other community are very used to and very familiar with tree preservation ordinances that actually have a threshold that can be removed prior to reforestation having to be um part of their plan so Lakeville we kind of stand different from that by not having those kinds of requirements so that's where that Excel spreadsheet was helpful to understand all of the cities and it was all over the Metro but of our neighbors as well typically a residential development would have a removal threshold between 30 and 50% wherein those trees yep we acknowledge development is going to occur those trees can be removed some ordinances go a step further and discount prior to that calculation um trees in areas that are um in locations where required roads or designed roads to support the development are located required storm water ponding and so forth so those are are discounted prior to that calculation and for non-residential development it varies all the way from 50% to 80% um so that we're more flexible for areas that we're really trying to enhance job growth so our industrial areas and so forth some ordinances then allow whatever required reforestation is necessary that that be double counted with either some of the minimal Landscaping requirements or better yet through some of the buffering requirements tree um whether you have um tree buffer and so forth screening is the word I'm coming up with um requirements that those reforestation trees be counted it is possible um that sites could run out of room um and so there are ordinances that do have a cash and Lop um and then those that pot of money can be utilized for planting trees within public places so if you do have um Emerald ashore a need to be replacing trees on city property or boulevards or what have you you would have a pot of money in which to do that so that we're constantly creating you know New Forest areas so I'm going to touch on the policy question and then hand things over to Zach because what we wanted to demonstrate is what's kind of gone on on some of the developments what has um removal been looking like and if we had an ordinance um what that could result in so the policy questions tonight is just number one are you supportive of exploring options that would encourage encourage preservation of significant trees and Woodlands through the development review process and then are you supportive of considering reasonable reforestation standards as part of that process because the two really go hand in hand so I'll hand off to you and advances you need okay great thank you um yeah we wanted to provide a couple examples from development that's happened recently things that have come across the desk that have generated some comments certainly some phone calls on our end a some offers for tours with neighbors who thought we should Contin see the property ahead of time so there's definitely been some interest in in what's happening with the development so um we're we're numbers people so we've got a bit of data here but we'll try to keep it uh a bit friendlier than than diving too far to the numbers um but you know one example we wanted to throw right off the bat is they had a they were nice enough to provide an Excel sheet of all the trees that were coming down so we could do a quick data analysis on it was the klano property just around 185th um kind of an interesting site you know the northern half was all first was was more agricultural more open land and then the southern portion was uh was heavily wooded um but overall as we looked at the numbers from the table we saw that there about 60% of the trees on the site were removed um over the course of that development again most of that in phase three that's uh was just clearing this past summer um but as we looked at the numbers what was interesting to us is uh you know the Oak and deciduous which is kind of the highest category most cities use for the tree preservation standards I really jumped out with the greatest number of Renewables as far as percentage of those trees um and what was left was a lot of the common species of the Box Elders The Willows the cottonwoods um the things that are a bit less desirable as it were as well as Ash Tre so you can see there about 50% of those were removed and 50% left on site um which are the Emeral ashb and that site especially is you know obviously going to lead to more removals because they're all dead um that's an ongoing conversation with that but just kind of setting the stage for for percentages right so 60% of that site uh Woodland was cleared as part of development um if we jump to the next think maybe why is it not showing no well what's on this one anyways uh use your imagination is uh uh okay well it's an excerpt from the the tree preservation plan uh for phase three and it just showed the the number of removals and perhaps we can share this outside of the meeting or after the meeting too just so you can see what those look like um but it shows the phase three section um you most of the trees being removed uh except for a portion down the middle where some of the storm water conveyances and things like that were being being installed um and then uh it also highlighted uh the oak trees that were were being removed as well as the ash trees that on the site so you can really see how those those percentages play out um and how the development overlays that Woodland type and so um imagine you can see it uh you know a lot of the oak that were on the site were actually part of the removal um whereas you know just to the north that was a p that was retained as Woodland with some of those lesser species um and so we'll send that out for sure let's to the next slide let me see if I can quickly make it a Pia I don't know why it's not populated pies keep talking yeah no no worries um so what we did with that again since we had that spreadsheet play around with is we just kind of ran through what some of the other cities we seeing are doing um and Grace was great enough to to run these numbers for us but looking at you know the different categories of trees right so Oak being in that higher category uh deciduous you know that second tier of of desirable species down to Common um sorry yeah no worries there it is um I sort of applying you know I think it's the the second and the and the let's see Fifth Fifth column there um looking at what's allowable as far as like a 40% removal threshold uh and then um after running those numbers looking at what mitigation would be required and we just threw in a a one8 ratio of replacement just to generate some numbers on what that would look like a lot of cities um you know for Oaks and the high value species will do like a one to two Ratio or let's see yeah a one to two so for every removed two trees are replaced uh as you get down to the boxelder and common species often you know one tree or eight trees replaced by one uh just to kind of give some some flexibility in there and acknowledge what those different treeses are anyways at the end you know we had just under a thousand trees as far as what would be required under replacement are some of those examples um if we look at the actual planting plants for klano and again just for context uh they're planning to plant just shy of 800 trees in that site uh and so not far off what that that would be certainly below it though um and if we look at some of the planting plans that they put out certainly noticing a lot of space that was available after everything was planted right so the buffer landscape there providing some of the features along the storm water ponds and then two trees to lot there was still quite a bit of open space uh within those um overall uh you know 2200 trees were were on the list to be removed and so you if we're looking at you know 1,800 replacements um you know just a portion of those that were removed um the nice thing with kazano is they did provide a really nice diverse mix of species in their list not always the case we often see development really heavy on Maple lots of maple which we're kind of fearful of for the future so that's kind of where that that notion of having a species diversity requirements would be really handy as we look to Future can I just ask a forestry 101 question so explain to me the value like so I know is the highest value Tree in terms of just like what it explain why that is yeah I mean both from a tree appraisal perspective and so that's what they use to assign a value for you know trees loss damage what have you through um development or just you know damage loss for for recuperating that cost they're the highest value also they have I think a lot of times you know the highest value in people's minds too um and it's often one that's just you know ranked ranked up there whereas things like uh you know box Sellers and cottonwoods that grow like weeds generally not considered as valuable both in the assessment process with the evaluation process and just from a forestry management perspective going off that are they more disease resistant than other trees yeah yeah you know Oaks are Oaks are pretty pretty resilient trees obviously we do have Oak Belton City um affecting a lot of the Reds uh Whit and burs not so much um but you know looking at length of of lifespan looking at overall cost of Maintenance things like that you know it's they they're they're a pretty good tree they're slow growing though AR they are slow growing very slow yeah and I think that factors certainly into the valuation too right if you've got a mature oak tree compared to a mature you know box elder or even a maple that time spent on the tree the amount of Maintenance spent on the tree is going to be more the leaves are the last to drop I don't get get your yard clean you got to wait till after Winter's over the leaves are done yeah indeed so I apologize for that PowerPoint I quickly made it a PDF so if you want to I don't know if you want to backtrack to remind him about the no I think if we pop to the next slide real quick um take a quick look at that map I referenced as far as the the tree preservation plan um again tiny so we'll share it um the blue that shading that you see is are the Oaks the red dots are the are the ashes on the site um you start to see how that plays um but yeah every little dark X is is a removal within this plantet you can see how that plays across the development um so yeah I think we can jump maybe two ahead so then they would have to redesign their whole development around trees I don't know it's necessarily well I mean when you look at that they would yeah and I think that's where you know when when Tina was talking about some of the flexibilities and stuff like that I don't think we're we're saying you can't remove trees no especially when if it was Oak if you put it you know emphasis on Oak and you looked at that design that they have they wouldn't be able to lay it out yeah I think what without a replacement PL right right time so versus just clear cutting and not have any responsibility for the fact that you did clear cut it the ordinance would build in some replacement so that more trees are added to the site than the bare minimum okay yeah certainly not saying you can't this development is going to happen um some layouts you know some properties you know it's going to be difficult to get a road in housing in without removing some of those Oaks so it's my fault because I misunderstood the premise of how much was supposed to be saved and how much would be cleared yes so think of almost like Park dedication you know sometimes a development can grant us land for a park and sometimes they'll bring us a check so you think about okay in that kind of perspective but instead of just land for Park is trees all right so yeah this is just an except from the landscape plan um just to include um there's quite a bit of space in there you know as far as those 200 trees that were different from the example from what's being planted so um certainly space available think we can jump to the next one um can I ask one might when there are fewer trees in the development and uh very strong storm comes through are you better to have more trees or less trees in development as far as how many of them stay up stay upright does that make sense what I'm trying to say yeah it just seems to me when you only add two on the lot you know that it's like once it's gone it's gone the homeowner doesn't necessarily replace the three I mean the odds are they really aren't going to yeah no fair question um you know some of the research that we I've seen in the past indicates that you know 40 to 50% Tre cover uh will'll keep those winds acked and so when you have a storm blow through um if you have you know less than that you know the winds are going to be down lower at the ground level going through the trees a bit more versus actually being held up above the tree canopy buffering that uh that wind impact um certainly exposed trees take a lot more lot more uh wind a lot more exposed sail uh and so yeah they can be damage quite a bit easier um especially you know ones that are left from the development process if you know you have a woodland and you clear clear it leave a few standing here and there those are quite exposed and not not set up to take that wind Force so then what you're also saying is that the risk to the home is greater because there's room for the wind to come it it can be awesome um so yeah uh another example just as far as you know that transition Tina mentioned from agricultural setting to more Woodland the crown apartment's down on uh what that 210 um you know it's a pretty heavy stand of of Oak Woodland um and you can see the plan on the left basically clears the entire site um and then you know the landscape plan on the right is proposing you know 58 new trees which is about again a one day replacement ratio uh we didn't crunch numbers on significant diameter and all that we didn't have that data so it's a high Lev look you can see like kind of what what we're looking at when we talk about you know what change in development type is going to be and what the impacts are going to be with this site quick question even with even with that type of replacement plan know I was reading about the diameters and obviously when you take out a mature tree and plant a new tree in it's not a one for one mhm but I what's the estimated time before somebody would even like perceive that okay this is sp does it SP fulfi is it 10 years 15 years yeah I think when we look at benefits value like benefit calculations for trees it's usually what is it is it a 30 for full replacement on a mature tree it's significant you know 10 to 15 years you'll you'll see what looks like a tree again yeah um yeah the full benefits calculation is quite a bit longer which is where that preservation piece really kicks in right because the best thing to do is preserve what you have as much as possible and then replant from there yeah do any of the Cities take into account like air quality you know that andag on the community by moving too many trees or is it just like we want trees and that's kind of why we have the number yeah um I don't know if there's been a good way to quantify air quality improvements because most of that data is at a larger scale okay or like entire cities instead of localized to like a neighborhood scale so um it certainly talked about the research would back up the air quality improvements from forest and and tree cover in in an urbanize setting so um it's just not quite at that microscale that because there a lot of work there level of cooling that happens though absolutely you have more canopy you've got a cooler overall yeah it's probably a little more micro uh impact on their quality yeah and they've been doing some interesting studies where they're deploying temperature gauges around around municipalities just to see what that local effect is certainly Heating and certainly lots of anecdotal evidence from uh from memoral ashb management where people call up and say Hey you cut my trees down and I my heating bill went up so it's pretty dramatic um another example real quick is just rder Meadows uh again you know looking at that transition as we go Westward into the oakand again this was you know my for for gravel so it's not quite a a natural Woodland area but again we did see uh what was it um about 90% of the trees on site removed um and overall it's about a 66% replacement on this one um so lots of mass grading there and um full development of the site except for that front buffer of trees along along 210 again I think this is a good demonstration of a decent replacement in terms ofir of going above and beyond screening if ask Guyer store well he comes through yeah we have had some plary conversations on the Caren property um obviously some of that the southeast portion of the site's going to be way to develop we have explained to the folks that do have a signed purchase agreement DR Horton um that we are considering this ordinance whether we'll beat them in any simil or not I'm not sure um but the Ken property has other significant issues there's probably what 27 Wetlands were identified and um topography challenges so we've really pushed them to really start thinking creatively um probably um expect a plan unit development so that we can really utilize the easy to develop pieces with some density um and try to preserve the natural amenities on this site so we are working ahead on that one it's because it's an important site to think about that absolutely and this one I'm not I'm not as familiar with so the main thing here was just outlining the areas that were were preserved versus areas that were cleared obviously that the margins where we've got some Wetlands um were the areas that were were preserved and what we've got is a lot of box elder and Willow that have remained um whereas most of the other trees uh The Oaks and everything else were were clear um but just another example of what context is for forite development and then the final slide um just wanted to conclude obviously you know we mentioned the Kenwood one earlier um as a said that generated quite a bit of interest in phone calls in my end as well but then also looking at The Preserve site just the aerial there uh seems to be a site that you know really took advantage of of the op Li there and did a good job preserving that and so you know it's out there I think the developer when I talked to them uh one day when I first started here did mentioned yeah this is important and the neighbors you know really appreciate this and so we wanted to go above to to say some of that and so they seemed really on board uh when we had met about preserving trees there and I think it it shows so anyway it's just a few few examples right that's on the other that's not the on the top that's across 50 right from yeah yeah the joy the what this Joy Miller Jo Miller yeah so that's it yep so that's it for the slides so does this you know the summary and so forth I know we I went through it pretty quickly give you a a sense of what kind of direction we're thinking about you know in terms of you know if you were support you know going to support some additional work you know the direction we'd be going trying to determine appropriate removal threshold versus um and then when before station required that's kind of the basics the essence of it but then also addressing some other gaps in the ordinance in terms of How It's enforced and um make it a better tool for both the developer as well as a city I mean a short answer yes um as I look at what is left to be developed to me this is the example of what I'd like to try to promote somehow with that existing um mature tree cover how can we incentivize that as part of the development process to design the site careful what's that um promote promote yeah more neutral um promote development that keeps some of that cover um the replacement plans I mean I think those are all important pieces of this puzzle too but that that doesn't provide the full benefit that I think you know for decades to come so I think it's part of the puzzle but this would be my ideal this trend it from this so our current ordinance requires basically a somewhat costly inventory of everything that's going to be cut down yep and then no no requirements or standards of of that just seems wise to me I guess I I would agree I I think with Joshua to the two questions you're asking I would be a yes on both of those um it um I mean there is value to older trees I I I understand kind of the logic of you know having replacement plan let's bulldoze this old tree and put a couple saplings up um but I I do think there needs to be more um more thought to preserving the uh the older growth I guess I think what Joshua said was well well said to um I mean there is value to the Developers this too I I think kind of the cookie cutter approach of let's bulldoze it all and start new um works when you're in a in a corn field it doesn't quite work in some wetlands and areas so I'm I'm a yes on both questions oh Sor yeah excuse me yeah same same thing I read through this and then going yeah certainly supportive of exploring a policy and supportive of um you know reforestation but less about that and more about preserving whatever we can preserve this is a big issue for most developments and the reality is that some of the materials say is this is the future of development in our community it's going to be smaller tracks that are embedded in neighborhoods with not just mature trees but mature houses and I think we be really um really cognizant of preserving as much of that as possible so I'd like to I'd like to see that and I also agree with what Dan was saying because the thing that strikes me here is I never knew this much about trees and the numbers and WIS and the percentages of Wis and total widths and and replacing all that but there's something to be said too for when somebody points in a tree and says that thing's as old that thing was there in the Civil War started and I I think we need to we might not have a policy about it but I would like to see somewhere where we say yes we will at least consider history you know and some of that uh but yeah I'm I'm supportive of of this direction of looking at a policy that that we can update that gets us away from just mowing everything down and putting a few things up and and trying to preserve as much as possible because this is be high impact for our development can I ask one question I was going to ask you you expressed concern about Maple about all the all the new ones being Maple why why is that is that I mean are they are they planted just because they grow quicker and um what's what's your concern with that just from a that we're going to be all Maple and what's that mean yeah no I think there's a couple things working uh Autumn Blaze is is one of the cheapest most readily available trees that around um and people love the color right I mean we always get that what can I plant this bread uh that's what people want to see uh and so there's been a big demand for that there's been a lot of them planted um and for for us what the the concern is is that you know species diversity numbers get out of whack right anything over 20% um of One Tree family which would be Maple um really sets you up for things like doel disease eal dashore uh and our concern is that if something else comes along which you know one example the Asian long beetle is in the country and as preferred host as Maple um and the response to that is different than do disease it's different than than emerald ashb is a federal response where they come in and clear every host tree with than a biome uh and so the impact of that would be huge right and so what we're looking for is not just promoting any any one species over another but just balancing out what gets planted because we don't know what's coming next and we just want to make sure that we're looking at you know 10 15 20% Tops on some of these trees just so that the next thing comes along doesn't you know put us in a really difficult position like silver maple though right oh they're fantastic no we Ed the joke that that would be the perfect tree if we can have like a 30-year rotation where we plant them and then cut them down at year 30 and start over because there's no no issues until year 30 whats are pure got three of them in our yard yeah well the diversity policy the tree diversity policy is we complement what we're already doing as a city when we're planting trees so that I want I definitely want that policy to be included in I think most development seems to to get that um but again you know we typically see 30% people some we've seen you know as high as as I think 60% or there's no quties provided it's just we're going to plant this whatever we can buy at the time is what's going in so he kind of a big gap there planning well so I'm really dumb when it comes to this topic um I learned a little bit but I'm not to John's level evidently materials um so I guess my thoughts are then I want to make sure that we find a balance that isn't going to discourage development to I I I mean I don't want it to be so costly that we we don't have it you know can't get anybody to come in develop or whatever um but the other thing is I'm just I'm trying to figure out like you talked about the history trees and stuff like that I'm just trying to figure out where our forefathers were when they were developing this country and trees are coming down trees you know I mean it all worked out we didn't I I I just get really uncomfortable with a lot of rules if somehow or another there isn't any flexibility with it and um yes did it break my heart to see that how many trees were going down for those apartments it did you know I mean it just like oh my goodness um and I and people you know the the community wants to see trees so I get that so I guess what I'm saying is I really want to make sure that we try to find balance you know try to not just what every other city did but look at the city of Lakeville as a whole picture and figure out how we can find the balance in our city that Mak sense so one thing for me is uh I like there's a lot of the the good things from other cities that I think are kind of our example framework I think I would like to at least as a discussion Point start tighter than 40 and 70 and then if we have to go and the reason I say is I look at some of our neighboring communities you know Farmington is 30% across the board I'm curious why they picked across the board so I'm comfortable personally being closer to some like direct you Apple Valley has any significant tree I don't know how they Define that I guess I could read that but um the Farmington prior L kind of numbers are a little bit and um Burnsville to extent are a little bit tighter than what weos so I'd like to start there and see where the Planning Commission goes on that but um obviously I understand that we have to develop but at the same time you know we're losing a lot of that nice wooded areas that we've had the last 40 years and now they're develop so I I predict we'll get a lot more calls but on the flip side I mean we're just as guilty I mean I get beat up about aers Park all the time and I understand saying we're planting trees and whatever but you know it's part of the equation so I would really like if you think about the Gravel Pit there's a lot of really nice stuff up there and I'd rather stay mature when they're developing on marrying than clear cutting so figuring out some of those I think is important because that's gonna happen long after I'm so does that mean an AR has to be consistent across the whole city or can it be segmented five areas I'm sure you could figure out you could figure out ways to do it either by areas or by zoning districts or by prodct types yeah I mean I would really like also to think about tear Downs on the lakes that as we're getting the point where some of the stuff in Orchard Maring is getting given on crystal is getting into 50 60 7 years old we're going to start talking more about tear Downs how to preserve on current lots that are rebuild and that might be a unique thing I don't know what prior does but we should think about that too I want to prevent somebody tearing on their house but also don't want to have a clear cut line okay we good yep sorry I'm taking notes no that's okay thank you guys I appreciate it all right thank you for the feedback we'll um regroup and um come up with some strategy and again we incl will be you know meeting probably natural resources next um or try a joint session with them in the Planning Commission is kind of our thought to kind of kick us off to the next commission where they should be doing this work but we didn't want to spin our Wheels if it wasn't something Council yeah my last question is is there flexibility in like a CP process if there's something we really want to develop commercially down the line it's like wow this is not going going to work to build whatever shopping center because it's just not going to pencil out is there flexibility so some kind of out oh yeah like a commercial it's like yeah we know build the shields well whatever it is but it's or you know then it's maybe that's more of the like they're going to give us money we'll plant trees somewhere Y and I yep to your point I think the threshold for non-residential will be much greater when you look at and when we layer the land use on top of the areas that are treed we're probably not going to run into that scenario very much yeah um so I think that will probably solve it um to your question you know do we treat some areas of the city differently some communities adopt kind of a tree zone where then the ordinance only applies to those Parcels that have tree zones layered over them um that gets tricky got to work with those Property Owners because it's significant to them when then they go to sell they have a greater restriction um versus it being the fairness across the board but it it is another tool that could be looked at so there are ways around that but I think we really need to understand land use around these areas for instance you know the crown piece you know was that looked at when land use was determined you know were the trees looked at when the last comp plan was done and we designated that high density knowing the only way high density could develop on that site is with all of the removal of the trees so we are entering the next round of comp plans soon so it could be something where maybe some tweaks have to take place from a PE land you standpoint and adjust them because we're thinking more about the trees especially with us heading Westward um you know to um the other side of 35 into these trick here sites I got really I don't get the they're required to have like a where do these treat replacement don't I mean where are they put well for instance um if we had so I'll take Ritter Meadows if we had an ordinance so their replacement was up to 60% so that's kind of in line of what a new ordinance could be it's probably on the high end so what would be counted for those reforestation trees would be where they had screening so they intentionally in their landscape plan had screening around the serm water Pond there were areas where they um the development moved from the higher density Town Homes to single family so there was intentional screening plan those trees would be then counted as part of the reforestation so we're not trying to double up and force the site to have so many more trees than what could actually be planted but um to allow those new trees that are required because you took away so much be counted in areas that make sense okay so this is the part that got me confused I thought for whatever reason that those if they took so many trees off this development they could put them someplace else if it didn't all bit back there what I was trying to figure out is what is the other place that they're allowed to put them and then are we allowed to say we want to plant in older neighborhoods yeah what sometimes becomes a fall back for cities that have the replacement requirement is a cash and loop so then if the site just runs out of space and it's just not reasonable to cram more trees on it have a tool at which you know a dollar value is placed with it so kind of like Park Dedication that is put into a pot of money that then the city could utilize for trees planted in public spaces so it wouldn't necessarily mean the developer taking their trees putting them somewhere else it would be through a funding mechanism okay thanks thank you um we we're now going to move on to Item B discuss local affordable housing aid we really calling it laa yeah okay this is uh as a reminder this is something we've talked a little bit before we had the CDA here yep so I I will kind of cut to the chase um mayor council um Tony and Lisa were here um back in June um we had talked about it earlier in the year as well you do have what is going to be our 2024 funding amount and that's 202294 59 so a little bit less than what was originally shared with you um it is only five months of funding and so I included in the packet the spreadsheet that would provide the projected amounts and again those are estimates um the Department of Revenue needs to certify those each year so we know what our dollar amount is for this year um I think half the funding has already been distributed on the remaining half by the end of the year cities must spend this within four years that's also a change we have to identify how the funds will be spent in three years but the actual spending can take up to four years that is important I think in projects or dollars that could be used in the future for Gap financing or something that might be tied to a development um closing or something so as you know Dakota County CDA has been working with cities to identify a couple of programs that they could administer on our behalf um that get at um preservation of affordable housing so the in enhanced single family home improvement loan program this is similar to the funded program we have for cdbg but it UPS the limits to um 15% average loans is about 32,000 um and then the rate out migration um would probably be used hand in hand and if a property is going through um a kitchen Improvement or Windows improvements and so forth they may have the radon evaluated the same time and utilize those dollars an average rate on mitigation is about $2,000 so the CDA is asking for a resolution of support um by early December that basically says yep we want to participate in these two programs with some or all of our dollars and then we would enter into a joint Powers agreement they were looking for a three-year commitment as they will staff up so about a million dollars in anticipated loans would be one staff person or a little bit over a million one of the things that I did include in the staff report that we finally got an answer to was um using $10,000 for the chores and repairs program that we currently fund through cdbg it has been determined unfortunately that that's not a qualifying use of funds so fortunately so extract that from your you know your m idea of what we could do so basically we're asking tonight if you want to collaborate and if so um how would you like to see that money spread it could be a specific dollar amount it could be a percentage of our total if you want to hold on to some funds internally and start building up um for Gap financing or some other project we certainly do not have to commit all 229,000 we can commit whichever whatever percent that we want to but those kind of blanks need to get filled into the resolution and then I would bring that to a council meeting in November so my first question you know we've gone back and forth with Tony and their staff a little bit on I I completely understand how they've got a staff and Bud so so the request makes sense however we still have some conversation with them about what I call bigger project whether it's a new senior apartment or something so if we commit to this is that tie up that money that then we couldn't use on another partnership it would so that's that's my one hesitation is that's my hesitation and not to say we're ready to be sh right even next year the year after because it it takes a lot to get there but yeah well yeah within three years yeah I don't know said within seven years well yeah so that's that's no how we spent within four four years after the so by 2028 right it's on a rolling every every year so that's my one hesitation is I get why they're asking for that but at the same time I really think that there's strong possibility of a partnership in that senior space that I think we'd want all the money for that I don't know if the right answer is and that that's myit I wonder if we can WR jpa because we might not be the only people that's concern that if mutually both parties agree to allocate our money toward a CDA project well and that's right so maybe internally for them to say okay we're going to dedicated person to manage City CDA whatever the money goes to versus saying we're going to hire somebody just in one Department one department does that make sense yeah their intention is I understand is to hire an additional staff person that currently so they have someone that works on the cdbg funding for the Home Improvement they want to hire another one of those people to manage projects our money would be served just like our cdbg money served to Lakeville residents for these Home Improvement BS so that is that's their objective to understand what they're dealing with across all of the cities and you know will they have enough commitment to fund that staff person in addition to providing the sorry so and if I didn't say this before one of the reasons for me for the senior housing is so important in Dakota County we have a thousand people on the way for senior subsidized departments in my mind that's a thousand single family homes that are in that Noah space of affordable so I just feel like that domino effect of anything we can do to help spur that so that's my only hesitation otherwise I'm fine with the county partnership I just don't want to tie us to just those four programs yeah it might qu question was going to be so the way you described it so somebody with a [Music] house yep just like the cdbg Y okay it would be the money I I mean I it is it is a domino effect because if somebody's been in a house for 50 years in one of two things either they want to get fixed up sale already get it up to a standard where they can sell it um this is the kind of loan that they're going to ask for or if somebody has bought one they're going to ask for that but I agree that if we have a senior complex that we could do I don't want to lose the ability to do that and so if we do this and say okay we're going to commit the funds to these two things at X number of dollars um I would love to see something like like Mr Miller suggested where we we just at least discuss the ability to use that money for something else versus this they're both good things but I don't want to see an opportunity pass by because we well is there a formula that's going to be used by them that based on how much money let's say they have four cities that commit those four cities are all going to have a different amount of money that they're going to be committing to right okay so whatever that is is there a formula on their part that guarantees that if Lakeville contributed 50% of the money let's I'm I'm just going big if lfi contributed 50% of the money 50% of it's got to come back in when they make approvals does that make sense the dollars are but anything that comes from here comes back it's a one for one yeah other than program costs because I'm afraid that they're going to take a group of money and then West St Paul's going to get something that we're not our dollars will stay other than cost administration of whatever that Mak sense what was the percent so the the way we have it written is that in their budg it's all ear Mark for l so we wouldn't be we wouldn't be subsidizing a West St Paul or H well that's what I'm worried about when they want to put it all together and let's say we are the 50% person we just paid for 50% of the person that got hired too does that make sense so that's what I'm trying to figure out is that balance between all these cities pooling and and it usually ends up happening that the bigger cities I see you're are paying for smaller ones so you'd want the proportionality of the staff to be funded equally amongst everyone's participated I yeah I guess I just it's reasonable I get where you're coming from it's opposite of the 911 Center because it's not right percent right but I don't know but on the flip side in theory that staff person is going to be working more to manage more do more dollars if we the biggest well it doesn't just have to be the staff person I I guess what I'm trying to say is when they get the pie from all the from the pot I just want to make sure that the portion that's our part of that pie is coming back to us fully and we're not subsidizing another city or a city that's not even part of the pie the other challenge too is this formula is a moving Target it's allocated based on correct if I'm wrong the amount of people in your city that are house PO is not a technical term but that's yeah that's one of the that's Department my understanding is the my understanding like City the Lakeville I will verify that but that is 99 I'm 99% sure on that because it's just like how sure so we have you know anywhere from 85 to $120 120,000 of our CBG funds always go towards the housing rehab and it's at the lower threshold amount because it's cdbg and those are then put back into our community to homeowners in Lakeville so let me just the reason I say this it's been my experience from a different I realize this is a Schoolboard thing and I 917 yes so they you know a ton of L for money goes into 917 but very few students utilize 917 we're P the us as taxpayers in linkville are paying for a majority of those students you I mean I I'm yeah I'm exaggerating some level so I'm just that has been my prior experience so that's what's in my brain on working with a different agency it just seems like the pool of money that goes in is not necessarily what comes back the one difference thing correct me Tina with 917 that's a year budget it's spent spent where if we don't have Lake hille residents that go for this money it's going to roll over to the following year so it's does that make sense so we wouldn't be subsidizing just if there's this pot of money doesn't all get do out every year to whoever's in the count so if if we have 100,000 request with 200,000 the bank that extra 100 is going to roll over year so that's how it's a little different than the 917 Rel and that's that's how I'm trying to make sure that we're covered and I know you you're using 50% as an exaggeration yes but it is my understanding that almost every city in the county is going to do this okay so I think Burnsville is at least I read an article yesterday that or last week they might be using theirs own they already have a program from what I understand I'm talking to County staff they're expecting almost every C County City to participate no one thing that we could do so we're getting 229,000 here if you passionate about holding back some of those funds you could hold back half of it and dedicate a specific percent then gives us a lot of reporting requirements and we have to use it yeah figure I like it but I would just Tony's a creative guy I think if you present that to him I think he might have a solution forward so you're saying before the JP have a conversation with CDA County say hey look this is is there a way for you to massage how can we hold out hope that project comes along or not locked into just these two programs right I think we can talk about that and how under that scenario um um because they want the resolution prior to the jpa language um are you thinking all 229,000 under that scenario if we're able to get confirmation from them yeah I don't does staff here any recommendation I mean we had the only other one in there has to be some scale right I mean if we hold off 10,000 that's not going to do us any good so I think we have to give it all to CDA that's their best leverage well and how do the I mean the 229 is quite a bit less than what the original projection was is that how confident are we in the rest of their projections because it gets up to 600,000 after three years yep the the amount is reduced because it's only five months but so everybody's was reduced this time yes yep cross the board counties um the packet had the list of the um Department of Revenue certified amount so it's just the five months so I am confident that um it will be much greater probably you know I think we were supposed to be at around 350 um I don't know I mean it's based on projections it's based on um sales tax and I wish people shop and so good point the only thing I would think about long term is under today's current law the interpretation is that you can the city could use that funds let's say if we want to te on a building work with somebody let's say we have a bad let's say Royal milk for instance was going to be a trail at an a building we could have used These funds to do that so this ties our hands a little bit on who our partner can be but I don't that's such a long shot of possibility I'm not worried I think you know after three years don't we have to redo this again that so know I'm sure that if a project comes along that the CDA wants to to partner on yeah we would do a supplemental jpa or an amendment to the jpa one by one basis that's not but I'll reach out to CDA communicate through Justin get the confirmation and then if it is we'll proceed with the second meeting in November for the resolution i w be but then at least we can get the answer to you and you can think about and if you have more concerns there's we've got a few weeks that we can work out those details okay and else yeah thank you thanks uh moving on to item C our 2025 Fe schedule go over thank you Mr Mayor um so the fee schedule changes that are in the packet they are just that just the items that are changing or recommended changes for the fee schedule it's not the the entire Fe schedule um we're looking for input from the council tonight and we will be taking that input and these changes to the public hearing on December 2nd so I'm just going to highlight some of the um top things in it we have uh the park dedication fees um are being increased to 1% and that's just in coinciding with the market value increases um of unplanted land we are revising all of the staff hourly costs for the 2025 cost of living adjustments and then um um we are revising making simpler with the credit debit C fees um that the customers passing along the customer will be paying those the city will be paying for the fees for EFT and a payments so um that's all stemming a lot from our our Erp implementation um we just moved around the investigation fees from Public Safety section to the license section it was in some in both places in some regards um and then the permit fees there's in it's reflecting increased staff costs and what the uh inspections department did is they did a comparison of neighboring cities to make sure that we were still in line with them um so those are are still in that in line those haven't been raised in a long time yeah yeah so um we did add a fee for single family home conversions to Assisted Living um seeing that happened and because um as a delegation agreement with with the Department of Labor and Industry we need to do the inspections on those and so that requirement does fall to the city it takes staff time so it's recouping those costs um we did increase the fee for the fire sprinkler permits um the minimum had not been updated in several years so that was um covering the cost of the state processing fee as well as our staff costs um and again that increase does move us closer to the rates charged by our neighboring cities so um we also added fees for the fire captain and firefighter positions now that those are in are Staffing um to make sure in case we use those those positions for any um inspections or whatever that we would have that covered we um for sewer rates it's got a proposed um increase and again that's covering our infrastructure improvements the lift stations as well as the mcees increase which was 4.47% that's the one that we pass along but it is built into our fee um for the sewer rates that averages out to an increase on the quarterly bill for an average resident to $368 a quarter um water rates and I'll go into these more with that budget as well but um increasing uh 6% for those and that makes an the average residents using 15,000 gallons their increase on a quarterly quarterly bill would be a191 um so have we talked about that because I thought the last conversation we didn't have to increase water race for a while or am I not has to do with the wet year that we had so we're see I'm sorry but you're no lot less watering going on so there was a lot less revenues coming in so in theory next year they could go down or stay flat depends again and uh with the new tier system and I'll get into that in that budget too but we had the very dry year with and and now a partial year of the wet year in 2024 so we don't even have two like a dry year and a wet year to compare to get an average so this is keeping us um in line for the the water treatment plant uh improvements that are coming up in 2027 so it's making sure that we don't fall well below and trying we're trying to avoid issuing debt with that right I know our intent long term is to make sure that our utility rates a one for one we're not but you can see when in the one chart you know 2030 and out in the water fund we are projecting a larger balance cash that we need if that were to hold true theoretically you could lower the rates in those future years to to REM that available cash down good and I'll get to that in that those charts too um irrigation sprinklers we did recommend a decrease to those so it matches the the tier four the highest rate um the highest tiered rate because and that's what a lot of other cities do they match that top tier and just have it one for the same dollar rate um water service call fees for increasing those to better reflect the actual cost incurred by the City performing those service Poli on the irrigation sprinklers meters that included residential versus the commercial too it's the commercial that seems to well um and that's why I like their bill being up there because they had a choice whether to turn off water or level I don't know how they do it I don't how it all works but I just hate seeing them run when it's raining and yet a homeowner knows is smart enough to turn them off you know what I mean when they don't need them because they don't want this is for the HOAs this isn't your individual homeowner on the irrigation rate okay this is for your larger res like homeowners associ I think she's saying she doesn't want to decrease the commercial one I don't from 598 to 535 I don't want to decrease it because they're they're overusing it I mean that was the whole part of coming up with the tier system so that people could make a judgment on what they wanted to use and those persons that wanted to use a ton of water to have the greenest grass they just needed to pay for it yeah I mean I there's but then the gas station town of likes to water the sidewalks exactly but so do you see what I'm saying like why would I want to lower something when I really want you to really cut back yeah I'd be fine leaving the industrial call the tarff I would be fine leaving that 598 but lower in the residential okay I mean obviously fine okay yeah okay okay I mean I think we've done a really good job this last year promoting all different ways to save money under water bill and yeah doing the whole thing so which we need to keep promoting but yeah yeah I agre all right we'll make that change um then the water service call fees just increasing those to reflect the actual staff time that's um needing to perform those service calls make be sure that we're covered on those and then um the environment resources rate we are that one is actually having a slight increase too and it's ends up being 59 cents per quarter on on the regular bill so um very slight increases again I'll go through those charts when we get to those budgets but um any other fees that stood out to council questions on the Fe schedule changes on the water disconnection um just in general do we if it's like a hardship thing do we that you know if it's like a senior citizen thing um like for non-payment I'm just wanted do we over we don't shut water off for non payment because we certified to taxes so okay think the water shut off it might um just wonder what that has to do with maybe there's a leak and we have to go out and shut is that what it is yeah i' have to it's that's a request of the property owner okay shut for their maintenance purposes or what fix or something um I have two small things one is related to room rental fees the minimum on the actual fee tell me the facility oh um well the antlers Park okay want so page two um the minimum hours are going up makes sense to me um but we're also adding TV sound and microphone charges of $50 a piece and it just seems to me that if you're renting the room it should come with the amenities that are inside of it um and we're already increasing that fee by $250 um even if you're only using it for a couple hours but it's a very minutia item but but I don't know it just seemed like a lot of increases for that space in one year can I just say that it's not unheard of to um charge for those those two new items that are listed on here um I mean people will ask they're they expect to pay for it they just do it's part of rening a space I just rented a room yesterday had to pay for the projector and microphone a different place and when you and at the school district same thing you pay for all that in you know you have your base room rental and then you have the fees on top of it for the amenities that you want to use over and above so I'm just saying whether right or wrong people are used to that fee they know that you know they'll ask about it I would also wager that it's that when if there's an incident during a rental that it's those issues that cause us to have to respond it's that the TV doesn't work or the ab system so that's a cost for us what's the logic behind the the minimum increase is it just ises that align with the rentals that that we've had or it's a just more pain to have two hour I think when I rented it it was two hours it's a cleaning issue you know if we were renting two hours we might have to show up on a weekend two three times to turn the and if we do it at the four four hours you probably only turning it over once a day one I I don't know if this is changing for next season but this past season we were only renting it out once a day um because of the cleaning schedule so we were kind of losing out I think on Revenue because even at two hour there's a lot of room for only two hours the thing is that as a resident if you were something by the time you get your family all there Etc two hours is pretty short you know yep open those some gifts and get out of here help that's true but no I I can see where is this room on the Fe schedule no I don't believe so re I asked there's it seems like there's more and more youth boards that are getting kicked out of hotel boardrooms that are looking for places to me I guess there was like Anon and others started uninviting we've hesitated to run this room out unless a staff or council is here is access stand Point okay I'll move on from the it doesn't seem like there's overwhelming support for that um the other thought I had was about sewage rates and I don't know you want to wait till we get to the water um part of this but at one point several years ago we had talked about um C the calculation for sewer rates was being used on the lowest usage quarter of the year the Winter quarter the Winter quarter and I'm not sure if that's the right approach in terms of calculating our quarterly rates based on the lowest use quarter I don't know which quarter is better because I I if you do the summer quarters then that's also including water rates that are irrigation and whatnot but maybe quarter 4 is the quarter that's more kind of appropriate to use for the next year's um rates does that make sense well I think the assumption is you only want to try to charge for what's going in the sanitary sewer and even in that fourth quarter you might be getting some irrigation use in right year I mean but we're talking October November December blowouts are usually early October to be somewhat minimal but one of the things that we had talked about is that snowbirds I mean who aren't in their house at all in the winter time are getting fairly low rates um that sewer and I don't know how much of an impact this has on our overall um but that that point came up for me and then the initial charge we have for new accounts is currently set at 18,000 gallons of water as if they had used 18,000 but that doesn't quite match up with our tiers right now so I think that that initial new account rate should be at 15,000 gallons and not 18,000 now these are very like fine-tuned tweaks to sewer but not it's not always a one to one what's that and because you may have a family of four versus a family of two you know and is it the average you know use because a family of four with two teenagers could could use a lot more water than 18 so is the 18 more of an average between lowend users to retired adults sure that I mean if it's an average and that's I'm not sure if it I thought at one point that was one of the threshold changes between te and U I thought that's why we had 18,000 I 1.8 was our average user back when we first started talking about this but I can't remember we can look into that yeah with the new software that's happening might be easier to to um determine what that is and not be at the mercy of Lo just to give us the reports so um you know you said the cost for quarterly for each one of these different charges but the tier one people or seniors or whatever what is that cost going up as a total water the light you know what is their bill going up per quter I don't have thaty but um I'm not sure if we can determine who who are the senior which house no no the tier one tier one tier one I I'm I'm stereotyping who those T tier one users are but we meant for tier one to be really very basic and so I guess my thought process was is I really didn't want to see tier one going up very much versus all the other tear I mean the whole point of making this switch too was the uncomfortability of the seniors losing their discounts so then if by year two there are their bills going up again you know what I mean it's like the whole point we started coming up with the system was to try to keep their bills as affordable if they only use 6,000 gallons it'll go 48 cents quar completely sewer well no just for the water see that's what I'm saying their bill their bill is a whole High yeah I mean as you recall I mean it let's just say they only use 6,000 the base is up 44 cents it would go up a dollar a quarter if you use if you base rate and you only use 6,000 gallons it would go up about a bu of that's why I was asking a question because I didn't add it all up then obviously you get it's a little bit more expensive if you're from this than the six to the 15 but then base there free questions okay thank you Julie on that now I think we have budget stuff so I'm tring back yeah well we've already gone over water s do you have any further questions on on or utilities otherwise we can do no I mean my only thing is I just let's put a calendar reminder in 2030 about evaluating and I'm just joking but you know is that fund still healthy because we' had okay so yeah I'm happy to go to lier fund [Music] budget all right Li fund budget is so uh just a reminder this has been reviewed and approved by the LI committee so um we are being conservative and um just the total uh the sales and how how they've been going this last year so the overall um sales projections have been decreased by 1.2% it's a different mix so it's got Kook going up 6.6% um and then the low end of Galaxy have a decrease of 1.4% so just um be conservative like I said uh we do include in the 2025 budget 1.74 million in transfers so in that group of transfers we did increase the amount of the equipment fund transfer from it's been 500,000 for a long time we bumped it up to 900,000 this this go around this is to help keep the levy um lower and the liquor fund has the fund balance to support it so um it's not putting us in a bad position as far as the liquor funds reserves um and then just touching base again we had the financial metrics that were brought into the the view of this um in 2022 the council reviewed it at a worksh work session and then um the finance committee discussed them at their October 2022 meeting and so they had some comments on it so those performa metrics are built into the reports that we um provide to you and just another key note um Moody's changed their rating methodology to include the Enterprise funds of the city so that's beneficial to us because of the healthy fund balances that we've got in those Enterprise funds um as we look at um first of all did fireworks double can we lose sponsorship [Music] from there's still 30,000 I know but years only 15 the total show has gotten more expensive got it okay okay and then um um on the proforma what conversation have you guys had as a committee on what's the future of Heritage when it comes to staying their lease rates all those kind of things like I know they they had talked to us about some buildout thing ideas and I guess is there a Heritage update yeah we met with li committee last month and review just did a quick review we're in the process of finalizing the market study being done by a sh Associates and um they have some recommendations in there that will come forward with the co Council here first we'll meet with the collector committee and then we'll meet councel this mon uh November okay I just know the conversation's always been is that that square footage we think we can make up some of the levenue short yeah the short part is it it needs more space and it's the right location where it is so we just need to figure out how to work do that right location in that exact STM all or within 200 yards downtown will not work no I'm saying but there's no conversation I know yeah my conversation conversation yeah we'll come forward with a couple options okay your community 200 yard is a lot downtown lot further away right but yeah you're right it'll within that is the prime Place rest yeah no I lost the down any other questions on the performa the longterm uh Capital outlays very modest I know it's not usual for us to see projected decreases on sales um and they have to level up it level off and it's not out of the norm with what tan seen the economy product mix it's just a whole lot of things and so yeah I haven't bought nice beer one we hope we're hopeful that like like Julie said we're being conservative but we better how did our our cash sales eded in here I they're not we laundering the money aages everything I mean that's part of this budet but how is it projected um in in this model I'm not sure I think we specifically projected those products um we just projected the overall future income for 25 um looking at the micro level for those products we foresee them continue to to increase and eventually level up sure it's that shiny penny kind of work you're maybe expecting the market share just to increase for those products not necessarily an overall increase uh that and then um you know the one thing that could be a little bit of a game changer is if um is if it was legalized on the federal level then people could start using their credit cards sure and that I think but also increase sales those so it's it's than you the Federal Bank stff questions thank you um all right any items for future discussion want raise one just because I've never raised it before um had a couple discussions with people said I would raise it um trash trash policy um I don't know when the last time the council discussed the current system was it it wasn't while I was here just before you got here so I I want to raise that I think we should uh examine where we're at especially the two days per week window for the haulers um had some concerns raised about that and which way one more or less one more more one one per neighbor one day per neighborhood um there just seems to be and I think it was because of the county you know the the increased number of recycling truck just I'm hearing a lot from people about the number of trucks in the neighborhood when I try to explain it's limited to five area I mean so it is capped um people understand that trucks what's that they all run three trucks well then the ones Burns carrier Zip by our street there too I so it's so those people are getting more yeah just I'm happy to have the conversation the challenge for us is we because of related to the game some neighboring communities like burnel has multiple carriers as you know but they're Zone and so what was happening is like they would come into Lakeville when it was convenient you know it was a big hassle we can have a conversation about I think the big the biggest thing I think that we've done in the last couple years for your history is that we used to have seven licenses right as they've exited the business we've just yeah because it's not that there there was one I think that wanted complete you know open market part of the question there was there's what other haulers are you talking about because I think five pretty much gets the whole market for us doesn't it and one of those is only the western part of the city too I think but anyway I don't know that I'm necessarily seeing any changes to it I just think it' be good to that discussion well what's happening in our neighborhood is that waste management is so under staff they're coming every day driving through we had and Allen's had some discussions with them on that we're not the only city that's facing that it had some shortages we had two trucks come through for a waste one picked up the bags and the second one picked up the uh the what was in the bid so two fre yards two fre yard yeah that's interesting I you know I would welcome at our Retreat to have a conversation okay and then you know there because one thing that we did get I got an email about I think you guys were included too is if there's any type of study nationally or even locally about the cost to roads and how to manage that is it is does it actually harm or not and I'd be curious to have that conversation that's good that's a good point that was the one that that that those numbers seem really and where's the other study that by really limiting it how much more your garbage bill goes up oh yeah well I mean I'm not touching that but but us creating ordinances has increased the cost of my garbage I would say that it's the state mandates on recycling driven but it's also you know the company one of the companies had to hire more workers to be able to accommodate squishing the the pickup times you know so I mean there's it's not just you know okay so we'll talk about it at the retreat I'm just saying you know you want the cost of the roads I also want to know how much more it's going to cost me as a person every time we narrow in a ordinance well one other just to go a little bit more deeper here I mean one of the um people that I think you might communicated with all of you he had just had the idea that you know when we limit the license we could negotiated better deal for the community Through the licensing process which he was under Egan was the one that was raised I think he was under the impression that Egan does that because rates are so much cheaper when they when he live there which I'm like I I'm I'm assuming there's different differences in distance to landfills and like fuel charges are obviously different to B on your distance I've also got a long list I'll stagger them you know I I just I mooved to a different company and now I Wednesday pick up and it has changed my whole life and I I support that it's great life changing we faster because SPS like Thursday pick up that's like a great end of the week now I'm getting a Wednesday so it's like weekend even faster W such yeah when you got that much trash coming out of my house okay okay um committee or city administrator updates the uh liquor committee M you heard what we talked about um Personnel committee recently met um direct reports to Justin have completed the administrator survey um Justin will be submitting a selfie B soon and then you'll receive the council survey with attached resources including the the direct report evals self eval and the last year's materials for refence is that time of the year already we're almost to the end here we started talking about this in August and that's but now it's about right um the other update that I wanted to mention is that the safer Grant has uh created a conversation for the relief Association um because the acceleration the full-time hires also accelerates the potential decrease in paid on call um staff um and so the relief is looking at uh vesting schedules and what that might look like the account is overfunded a moment every looking at investing schedule and they they just came up with new excuse what's that you just laid it out oh because we the full time and the paid on call I I'm just saying they're looking for a new angle to the same thing that they always come with I'm not saying I'm not supportive or whatever I'm just I'm just chuckling because it's a great marketing you know to kind of change your angle a little and well that may be true it is it is fact I mean the safer Grant changes the conversation it does and so with that account being funded as you get less and less paid on call folks uh towards that Target number of 50 it there's it'll just continue to be more overfunded over time is there a process in how if you acred a bunch of money and then now you're full well I mean I mean I think that conversation is coming too because the State Fire Aid that comes in um at some point we're going to need to figure out how much is the city uh or should the city be taking in um for those full-time pensions with that um there could be a discussion on changing the type of benefit that payent call folks have right now they have a defined plan but it could change to a defined contribution plan um and then that is that would trigger a transfer of funds from one account to another and then it wouldn't be overfunded from because of how it's distributed and it's just too early to really talk too specifically about that but all those things I think have to be in the future about just how to to manage benefits for that new hybrid model more fulltime and less F on call were you talking to about about it you're paid on call say you already scw money and you transition you roll over retire you would retire as you're paid on call get paid with your best ad okay and then you start in the fulltime era yeah which is unfortunate if you are not quite fully vested yeah okay I yes um we had original Council mayor's meeting today a conversation was related to housing at the work uh and that is um will continue to be an issue and I think the strategy amongst Mayors will be determined after we see what happens in the election next week got G and control things and then the other thing I just wanted to bring up I guess this is also item for future discussion I talk briefly about if we want to have a conversation about pursuing as part of a legislative strategy social ordinances exemption next year at the legislature so what's the social social District social District so that would allow us to like sorry like Have A Beer Garden in like downtown for instance days um done you can walk around yeah I think there's two cities that have gotten legislation from the city or from the state so because you have to ask permission from the state right do the ordinance right yeah so we have to put it as our legislative priorities so we'd have to discuss that before the retreat yeah because we wanted in our priorities leading into session we plan we have the legislative priorities scheduled for your November work session okay so and then we can talk about process um the only thing I was going to mention is that uh we actually because of the whole timing of the extra week this month we actually had the meeting ahead of this one um but I wanted to um let you know that things are going well his numbers are looking goodas the Arenas yeah I apologize um numbers are looking good and um we anticipate next year's numbers will look good too because of the fact that bloomington's closing down three of their ranks so they're looking for ice really no renovating oh got oh I apologize they're fling them down to I I missed the the next part why to renovate yeah so um you know that means that it gives us an opportunity so we're going to probably see a bump but then you know we'll fall back to regular numbers so hopefully we do a lot with that bump when we have it you know for saving it Capital Improvements whatever and then we did lease um the snowblower and the snow removal so that did get leas I it was 40,000 over five years can I use it both sides yes mostly Hy I think mostly Hy but um when does the sheet of ice opens he's starting to cool the concrete now um they hope to have it open I first remember W there's a soft opening for it's called thanks you like around Thanksgiving um so there'll be like a soft opening the Lina wants to have a soft opening for in November so and then he'll have a big grand opening think in January hockey day Ines they're going do oh off yeah they um the goer women are playing bigi on new's day it's part of like a college hockey showcase how we score that I have no idea playing duth orer it's one of those once that outdoor rink is operational is there any other improvements that are being made there bleachers I thought there was another phase to this um there is um there's some rather nice seating and um they heated well I mean they're doing warming houses right now so he ordered um shipping containers since we figured out how to do that so um those are going to be nice for changing rooms locker rooms and they have he has a bunch of amenities penciled out um a lot of it's contingent upon fundraising from lha is part of the whole matching idea from the Hy donation pretty nice actually yeah because that I mean that's the scene in my head is a winter carnival and is that possible with what's being planned oh it should be really nice I think I think he's got all kinds of ideas and how he wants to you know utilize that year round so for community events are they doing the new video scoreboards this year those are in oh they're in yeah wow L still looking for ads for that um and they did sell the naming rights to rink two names to gens Ryan so that's Ryan and that was what we agreed to at lha it's part of the last negotiations that they had the naming ARS to those cool all that I will take Mo just real quick um voting is still going on very heavy here for a couple came in late um as of this morning we are at like 11,700 already voted we had another 700 today 7577 so I imagine we'll have that every day this week we're open late tomorrow till 7 is that right 7 7 or 730 7:30 and then we're open Saturday and Sunday as well and the voting times were on the website because I looked them looked them up so oh really yeah I'm sure that's where I found them cool does that number include return to the county mail mail ballots return 11,000 did okay um but not the Daily Number The Daily Number the 700 is what it was in person here I think since Friday when we started direct balloting I think we're over 4,000 now as of wrapping up today so that's just the people that have come since last Friday I was number 3,445 on Saturday yeah we even had 400 on Saturday and remind me we're at the eth we're doing canvasing the canvas is 8 noon why where's the county C that's on the 12th I think or 13th it's the week after that oh here it is I didn't see o00 did I I put this in my phone but you did you send us something that I was supposed to answer and sent out a meeting invite for November eight okay I have it in my phone but I just and again that should be a five minute me right I just have to remind myself so I need my little alarm to go off good okay I'll move to for a second say say hi hi thank you everybody thank you thank you Taylor and Michelle W didn't get officially yeah nice to meet you yeah nice to meet youo I have not you know I this place evid so noted treat you okay yeah they were good like they really hit me far out of high school like my first reality check when we met people born in 2006 voting that kind of Hit me hard too yeah tayor have a good week everybody I'll go to Soccer Tournament 2013 2015 the point you're at the soccer field or football field and some these parents are on and years than lot