##VIDEO ID:wLaZq7_GCGo## address Council um typically we reserve this for if it's an issue that's not on the okay um we'll move on to item three our 2025 legislative priorities um so first of all thank all of you guys for coming here today really appreciate it um just for everybody that's here I'm G to have Ally started we just want to go around introduce yourselves and then uh Al and Mr Ken will kind of tee up some of the changes from our priorties from a year ago we'll have just kind of a discussion and any of your thoughts about session or what's having been a council and kind of from a county perspective and then we'll keep the conversation going so we'll start here hi everyone my name is Ally Alison gray I am the senior Outreach representative with representative and Mary Liz Holberg Dakota County most of Lakeville uh good evening Zack Duckworth I'm the state senator from this area Bill Dy Dakota County Commissioner District 4 with the S that Mary Les claims I would have kept it good evening uh Jeff Woody State Rep for 57b D alter Lakeville city council John Burl Lakeville City Council luk mayor Joshua Lee Council Council Justin City administrator Alan Canon assistant administrator Taylor Snider assistant to the city administrator very good well I'll I let you see up um some of the primary things there and we'll have you know feel free to interrupt ask us questions so there's a couple bigger picture state things that we added in this year um and then I don't remember if we had anything on the federal side thanks um yeah I'm going to go quickly through this you'll all have a copy of it uh paper or electronically and so I'm just going to highlight the the changes we did this year so the one primary so let me back up so as you all know we do these legislative priorities every year to have a focus on what lake World want to see at the legislature and so we've broken the primaries up in two sections one is the the primary legislative priorities and then we have additional uh priorities if those items come up throughout the legislative session we'd like actually have on a list at least so that our legislators know that it's also on our Radar Radar to look at so um so one primary legislative change that has changed from last year is um as a request for downtown Lille social District this would be similar to what Anoka has done um leville is looking to try same thing uh in Lakeville um and then we have the perennial on there the state mandates on local Authority this is something that um we've always had here and that we're very serious about that there always impacts strings attached and we're very concerned about those impacts on local cost on municipalities and then the other primary one is also one of the mayor's favorites is the post office improvements and services there so that's continuing to be an issue for us and also the county Ro 50 uh five interchange improvements with I35 project for us we getting some attention on that so so we'd like to continue to have focus on that project and keep moving that forward those are our primary legislative items uh sorry to jump in right away we've already kind of uh last week I'm on taxes and uh the state mandates on local um Authority but unfunded mandates came up uh from the county I know Lakeville is a city that doesn't get LGA um what are those costs for the city um those numbers would be helpful as we're sitting there um because I mean we were hearing it from across the board and what mandates are costing you the most um but from a tax standpoint um just in those meetings uh that was something I was going to bring back um to the city as I was listening there um because I think uh I think everyone's seen it across the board and how then it gets transferred on the property tax and that might be a way to create some relief I mean pay leave is the biggest one right um um of actual just dollars it's new and that as you know doesn't go in effect till next year but I mean that's looming over us significantly and our staff you know there's um one of the things we're worried about is the um the state put some money in for U PTSD claims or we hopefully that remains that's going to continue to be an issue moving forward and right now there's been minimal exposure to the cities but we could see that continuing to be there yeah that was one of the things that came up in pensions also that money does run out uh where does that cost go back to yeah have you forecasted what you think the the P we have it's been a while I I can get that back out for you and are you factoring in the the increase that's not come out they already increase what that percentage is going to be no the last I mean we haven't done it for years so sure look at that yeah jul I mean we we're talking about significant impact of life this isn't we're going absorb it into our budget has burn sick and uh uh sick time right now has that have an impact on you guys no our policies were pretty much covered it already Okay um we had to make some modifications to some of our parttime workers but it wasn't significant is already covering requ thank you that's helpful um some of the new additions that we add to the legislative cber security it's an oning issue for us we always making changes and trying to stay up with that but it be uh there'd be some interest in that the state could also participate on that and help out on a local level uh we've got ation massage therapist again this is something that every city does they do it different it's hard for it takes a lot of time for cities to maintain these and keep up on them it' be nice to have a Statewide system to be able to have that regulated throughout State I always tell people folks are against uh they're all for local control until they're depends on as the price exactly the next one was on sale wine licenses so we had some unique situations in Lakeville where we had to kind of go through some hoops of antiquated lior uh legislation or state statutes and we're just looking to have a little bit more flexibility and allowing some of those license to be issued on Workforce Readiness this is pretty self-explanatory this is really just uh getting prepared suit for economics development Workforce is and then the sales tax and local government purchases got some big projects coming up Lille this would be a big deal for us to have um some relief on that as well so those were the other items that were added to last year's set of legislative priorities um and with that that's pretty much the high high level of it yeah and I just had a couple items that one that I that came to me since we had this conversation apparently we've learned now that there's no penalty for social host for cannabis so if you have a party and or a home and there's people who are not 21 and they consume cannabis there's no penalty under state law so we'll have to pass our own ordinance I'd rather you know if the states spent all this time talking about cannabis maybe that they should put the penalty in there so flagging that for you let us actually figure out what the law is that we pass yeah but as you know I mean um because it's sold from the tribe and it's out you know there's legal cannabis on the market now so um it's not like we're waiting for what comes next well and it's interesting you brought that because that is one of the things we talked about also about it would um by having the state do it eliminate the black market and I've heard that actually assuming the chap would know more about that but that's what we're hearing through Public Safety um right now and that uh there's some laws and that what we're concerned about were um under 18 getting access to it and we got some loopholes in that and I think that is definitely a rescue for disaster I think and then obviously the other issue that I want to bring is housing uh which we've talked all of has talked about extensively about that um and it continues to be an issue I if you have an update be glad to hear it our understanding is that representative Howard has like 9 bills so he's going to break up the bill from last time about that so we don't really know what's going to be in there yet um based on what he said on Friday at the mlc meeting it sounds like there's G to be plenty in there that the city won't like so as soon as we get to see it we'll let you know what we don't like there's I think there's certainly some places for common ground there we actually later on our agenda today have some conversations about some things that Planning Commission has looked at that we're going to make some adjustments um when it comes to zoning But ultimately I I'm still believer that with us to partner with the county um to really focus on senior housing at that um income kind of restricted is going to really open up a lot of opportunity for single family homes um in Dakota County in particular and I think we can play a role on that so that um are some of my my issues but I I wanted to open up to you then obviously all all three of your all four of your entities care about 35 and 50 um you know we've just to update you guys the county and the city have kind of basically put forward a referred plan and that will be um given to the state has it already or by February 1 so like yeah should happened should could have happened already or I think it waset um it was out approved last Tuesday okay by the board and smatter paperwork but there we've always been very clear they need to be the deadline so so you know that continues to obviously be a priority to how to fund that and all those sort things and there'll probably be some tweaks along the way on how that looks but as you all know it's a key Corridor for this region and it really matters to all the areas south and north of us as well so um with that anybody else from Council I just have one other thing that came up since then as well and it actually intersects with the county and the state so last year the legislature changed uh tax forat law which good reason for most of it there's a United States Supreme Court case that changed things but it trickled down to the state solution trickled down to cities as well and so it used to be if there was a tax forfeiture parcel that the city wanted to acquire for a public purpose we could do that before it went to auction um and we pay the filing fee and basically would get it for that if we did not use it for public purpose then we'd have to sell it and give CS to the state um we'd taken advantage of that several times for right away or some things like that um this year the new process is that if a parcel comes up we have to go and actually participate in the auction as well and the county administers that on behalf of the state so we had an example this year where there was a parcel that we've been maintaining for probably 30 years it was actually the access to a park it was between two houses we assumed we had owned it this whole time um end up we didn't and so it went into tax forture it was the only access to that Park and so when the state notifies everybody or through the county the neighbors know about it as well it would have been a very attractive piece of property to get on the cheat for them to to block access to that Park so we had to go to a closed session get authorization from the Council on kind of a not to exceed amount then we sent our Parks director to the auction he got in a bidding more all the way up to like $800 it wasn't but I could see in a case where somebody might want to take advantage of that so we would prefer that it go back to the old system to where if a city wants to use it for for public purpose we should still be able to do that so that would just be something and I'm sure the county would not like to have to auction off as manyer if they didn't have to so well and the problem the other problem with that is that the up to amount at some point the latitude of the public entity could be thwarted of by a matter of 50 cents or what I mean and there's no way around that piece of it really either it's really not yeah I mean we just took a stab in the dark thinking okay how much do we think the neighbors are willing to pay for it we got we got an amount from the the Cil Lu we didn't get close to it but I could see that becoming a problem in the future absolutely uh is there is the league or anybody have some verbage that they're already pushing that we can yeah so I actually spoke with the the leads Staff last week about it they're going to start to coordinate possibly with the counties Association and see if there's some joint proposal they can come forward well believe it or not we're already backlogged for getting bills written so the sooner the better if we can help prioritize that that sounds like a no-brainer yeah sorry I should have highlighted so we as I mentioned we we have the downtown district in here we probably need to follow the vi to get introduced for support of that well to work through that probably pretty quickly yes um we do have the sample language from an NOA so we can kind of work off of that just to be clear that's just alcohol related right yep y well I wanted to give an opportunity for each of you to provide an update if you would like you don't have to but always good to hear so s Jeff no quum today right what' you say no Quorum today no Quorum today um so uh we go on um I'm serving as Vice Cher Public Safety this year in taxes so uh the sales tax piece has come up as a discussion um of doing it as a blanket but also individually so please uh that information's good uh get back even in that housing Bill a little bit um because of what's going on at the this uh the session right now in our colleagues from across the aisle not showing up to work um we can't have hearings so we don't know what it's all going to look like it's a budget year it's very important we get to the budget um and so meeting with a lot of uh uh we had committee meetings all last week um they were very productive um except one of mine in public safety got a little Rowdy um but uh uh we're just ready to you know continue to work and push these things too so I would recommend getting the stuff so we're prepared and ready to go we've dropped um some bills already that process might have to get all wiped out again um but it is frustrating because um by not showing up to work um a lot of this can start getting resolved in the earliest if this continues it' be over seven weeks and um if we start showing up minnesotans want us working together and that's what I'm hoping so um a lot of this is a little difficult and um you know the Senate is obviously peral long as we're s there so how long that's going there's the pur of a cat and there's the pr of a tiger so the Met council is finishing up the Imagine 2050 plan uh it's going through committees right now for final approval last Tuesday the Community Development Committee looked at most of it the regional development guide housing part and that uh land use and uh we were able to get the minimum density for the Suburban Edge to three and a half I tried three and that didn't pass so we went to three and a half um that's with looking at changes to how density is going to be calculated supposedly our staff is going to work with cities over the summer look at are there other things that should be netted out right now slopes and and wetlands and stuff are netted out but changing the rules um maybe for storm water ponds to be netted out or storm water features different things like that so um yeah I don't think there's any way we're going to get it to to three which is unfortunate but um if we can get some good changes to how they calculate it it might still be okay so um I would want you guys to be heavily involved in that it's only for new development you don't have to get the whole city up to three and a half it would just be we finish building in the next five years and then we get to be done done before plot everything out um so that's that's where that is right now um okay isn't it currently at three it's currently at three to five you can be as low as three or as high as five and and changing it to a minimum of three and a half there would be no maximum and it's been three on the Suburban Edge for 50 years the next question and I I made all of the arguments about well why do does the edge now have to be different than all of the other edges as they were working out because it over time is going to get more dense naturally you know once you once you get all your Green Field development that's all you do to get denser and that's what's been happening and the the council members that res represent the core parts of the region ad admit that they would not compromise and finally uh council member Tony Carter who she's Melvin Carter's mom used to be the Ramsey County Commissioner and now she represent St Paul on the Met Council she was willing to compromise at three and a half so that's how we got there so but at one point the proposal was to not include like features of land right it just was straight no they always said that but there's hesitance on the part of council members that are representing Edge communities of yeah we we approve rules now and you know it's the the give me a hamburger today and I'll pay you next Tuesday kind of kind of a thing we kind of wanted to be sure where people we to that rather than and also uh the land use advisory committee is talking about how we're going to do the next round of Grants to help cities pay and if you guys could give me information about how much you guys had to spend on Consultants that would be helpful right now staff is proposing that the smallest cities the the council staff would just do theirs for them and then they would have grants for other cities but there's talk about tapping it not necessarily based on growth but just on tax capacity and I I still think growth should be a factor because you're changing more in your plan if you have growth than if you don't but that conversation will be going on over the next year in the L I have the CH someone tell me credit River doesn't want toep right no no they be likei be cities that have like under 500 people like nutrier mville you know and it wouldn't be that they tell them what to say it would be you tell us what you want in your plan and we'll just update it because otherwise they're playing phone tag with with consultants and and it's actually easier and cheaper for them to just write it for them whatever they want so the county how do you want to do this T minimal capital investment 50 uh 35 W you well aware and the numbers I'm sure you're all aware increased significantly because of the inflation component so I think it's 65 now 62.5 not including right that's just the interchange no RightWay acquisition no Lanes like you told us longer we wait no local Road you know y so so on recycling Z and there Thompson Park improvements and County Energy Efficiency and generation as far as the capital site and then we have a grocery list in all other departments but what one thing that might be interesting for you is our budget this year uh what was it 500 and I'm trying to think of number 23 just over half of it on the Health and Human Service side and cities in essence aren't involved with that side and just over half our employees I think we have 1,00 just over that on the health and human service site so all the any program out there federal state counties uh the 3,69 counties administer uh all uh Federal programs across the United States and there to the safety net so whether it's rent assistance or all the medical assistance Etc it's there's again that's a big chunk different from you but it effect your residents everything we do uh especially when you look at CDA on the red assistance and um senior housing Workforce housing that's uh another little separate element but on the housing side uh it's a big component one key issue though with all counties is uh the state has a very Antiquated computer system I'm sure you're well aware of the governor's uh I heard this morning's putting in about 40 million but we need at least 80 million because it eats up resource the resources in counties across the state uh Antiquated screen sort of Green Technology and coding and it we gas systems yeah we burn it up employees aren't really out in the field they're doing the coding and it's really affecting uh Staffing Etc so that's a key element um other items U uh can you anything else on the health and Serv service side the governor's budget there's significant alarm uh we're the governor isn't cutting anything he's just transferring the cost to the counties and we're looking at a 200 million number now across the state to counties for programs that were funded by state now the counties are going to have to fund it he's cutting the money but not the mandates right same the school district busting so so he's in the budget there's a lot of alarm at our side on oh we got to still do these programs but oh um where's the funding yeah just quick question about because you mentioned like roughly half of the 100 in the county are the Human Social Service soci side the budget up how does that that compare if you have the if you know this how does that compare over like five six seven years ago how much has it grown do you have an idea or it it's grown some but it's always been the it's always been been the gorilla of okay of the the bud on the positive side I'd say one great thing that's going to happen this year is the cannon fall stamp will be generating power about the end of this year and it should be about a million Revenue estimated so that very long project 60 years it'll pay for the year change um but it was a 40 some million investment the same as Mano and the over uh flow fortunately that was put in there that's what failed on AO and both dams were builted same time um other than that any items we should mention well I think the overarching issue and this is more given my past experience with years of budget cutting and I think it is particularly perilous given the makeup of the legislature is that there is a high likelihood that in the last last couple weeks of session or the last couple weeks of June or the middle of July whenever everything signed sealed and delivered there are going to be issues that are going to come flying out of cupboards that nobody heard of saw or had a whisper of warning about that are going to be used in order to settle the budget and so my um belief about the County's legislative budget we should start every conversation with our legislative delegation in that we really need to be in high level of contact and a deep understanding of impacts the $220 million straight up cut to County uh funding in various programs for the staed ETC we see that up front but what's going to be particularly damaging is those things in which we are going to show in really weird ways at the very end and then we need to continue this conversation to say please let us be at the table through this process we know that there are going to be Cuts but until you fully understand the impacts you know an easy solution sometimes can have devastating consequences for a really long time and there's a lot of experts in this room on a lot of levels don't hesitate to call us and we on the other side outside looking in I think we to really continue to drive home that message from day one that we recognize that there are going to be Cuts or things are going to change but that we need corresponding relief and mandates in order to not just have that Woll onto the backs of our property taxpayers and our very adverse con consquences to the people that we [Music] serve you know I have like the 10,000 foot message at this point because I've never seen anything like this it's it's embarrassing as a former member of the house that cares a lot about the Integrity of that institution it's it's it's horrendous and it doesn't have to be like that but I I know that this pretends oh a lot of danger to local governments in May June July or August or whenever those final spreadsheets come out are there um shifting gears a little bit are there any in your legislative priorities like with the Feds that we should know about is there anything that kind of the same thing yeah um you know with we administer yeah food stamps I mean you name it we had the county administer it and um you know we've been told that a lot of the grants everything's been put on hold and um John and I had a conversation with the Mad official on this green energy stuff and its impact in transportation and no funding for the mitigation of you know that would in for Road expansion um so there is one other thing that will affect everybody at City level 2032 you have to pick up Organics in the metropolitan area so that'll be a third pickup well of some form so that's the third stream that will uh be impacted throughout across the industries Etc now anerobic digestors how many are needed in the state who's going to do that there's a lot lot of discussion going on but um uh the one meeting we were in last fall the estimate would it be approximately $10 per household estimate at this point but uh we'll see as you go down the road mon uh yeah mon and then all this leads to Minnesota not being competitive I mean that's the big picture and a friend of mine that moved to North Carolina from Idina her property tax for the same house went from 20,000 a year to two and just because this garbage thing is getting so expensive and it's so frustrating I asked her what her monthly garbage bill was $20 so well that's that's another thing Steve Mundy the score 29 29% of the revenues going to the general fund and PR account we'd say hey keep the money collected on trash and that we have these landfills and that's another whole issue that doesn't impact you but inber Grove Heights Burnsville and Rosemount it's clearly an issue with where all our waste goes or the burners and red wi and AR they closing the burners though is that part of the problem what's that they closing all the burners uh just the her almost Rochester has one uh Redway uh West Shak there's one over on the west met also but but by 2030 they don't meet the the renewable energy standards so you're not going to be able to burn trash but at the county level it's a significant issue uh statuto it's our County's responsibility the waste the cities you pick it up but the landfills are County well after all that good news uh won really comment much on the house I think Jeffy John do a great job doing that and nor do I really want to uh I think you know how the session is going to play out is still anyone's guest you'd be asking me to look into a crystal ball and try to figure it out think there are some some pretty good guesses that have already been shared just a kind of a a context Center for everybody um just reminder that over the last two years you know we took that $18.5 billion Surplus increased taxes 10 billion and it was used to grow government spending by 40% or20 billion and now we all know that we're looking at about A5 billion deficit in not too distant future as far as the state's concerned and I say that to set the the expectations with the city and with the county because most of your requests are for money and uh it doesn't take uh I mean my my kids in elementary school can do that math we're not going to fix this by continuing to spend and so that's part of the issue and to some of the points that were shared earlier um if you look at the governor's budget proposal he's pretty much saying the same thing only he's not being straight with you any of his cuts are really shifts he's shifting spending to school districts and he's shifting spending to counties uh and ultimately that means it's being shifted to Property Owners to the form of property taxes and I know as City council members the mayor the administrator and at the county level uh you're ultimately the ones that have to bear that bad news um so um if I were you a couple of things I would be trying to do or ask or request right now are for exemp exemptions to some of the mandates that were passed some of which we already talked about uh and at the very least extensions to the implementation of those um I'm not sure we're really going to be able to fight and win exemptions but we might be able to at least push things out for you look at the make up the legislature now there's going to be at some point forced negotiations and compromise and if some of that includes pushing these things out for you and ultimately for the residents of your city and the county that might be at least a temporary win or it might buy some time for some more permanent Solutions further out if that makes sense but as it stands right now the spending that was authorized uh from the last two years is really on on a pretty significant bind uh bonding anybody's guess um people always talk about wanting one if the city or the county I know the county has projects but if the city has some to that you want to put on our radar at least let us know sooner rather than later I know you're still working on a couple from a year or two ago so that's good but that's kind of really where things stand as far as we're concerned obviously the Senate right now is 3333 there's a lot of good bipartisanship working together uh to pretty much lookist informational briefs right now in committees uh there's going to be an election later this week that would change the makeup of the Senate and then I think you're going to see us return to um you know the circumstances that we had for the last couple of years and so as that continues to play out this session we'll see ultimately what we're able to accomplish but what I will tell you is time is running up legislature has deadlines although we do control those deadlines but if the house uh if if Democrats there aren't going to start showing up till sometime in March they're really going to be hamstrung in terms of things that can actually get passed and that might be a good think maybe we just look at budget stuff and that's all we pass and we leave some of this policy specific to housing at the Wayside but that's kind of where things stand at the moment can I add just one more thing to how we're 32 million a year of the so they pass the metor sales tax for transportation and in the governor's budget he pulls back the 32 plus million a year that was part of the deal that the state would spend general fund money to fund the light rail operating costs and so he just said we'll use your sales tax that you passed and took that money so there's another hit to the Metro region that's not born by the whole state that will reduce the amount of money in the active Transportation funds Etc so hi everyone um so yeah I'm here on behalf of congresswoman Craig's office uh she is in San Antonio right now touring a a farm in her new capacity as ranking member of the agriculture committee over at the house which we're super excited about that was a really eventful end to the 118th Congress and we're proud to be a part of leadership now and and fight for bipartisan and Common Sense deals over at in the ad committee for SNAP benefits for the farm bill for any rural Broadband Investments you know all of the above so uh we're really hyped about that um you know this Congress we have a few different priorities we've got uh lowering taxes for small businesses uh that is something that Angie always loves to say a Democrat fighting for lowering taxes who would have thought you know and so we are fighting for that and also the passing of the Cooper Davis and Devon noring uh act which is a piece of legislation that Angie has written that would require social media companies that uh are familiar with uh illicit drug usage or uh uh what's the word commerce if you will uh over the usage of their apps uh we have to report it to local law enforcement uh to hopefully you know cut down on the illicit drugs that are on the on the streets and especially the impact of fentanyl in this District which is you know increasingly a very scary and uh terrifying thing to have to face so that something that we are working on uh when it comes to Lakeville we're always going to be putting pressure on the post office the post office hey Angie Craig has has a made herself a little little niche of uh you know let's hold the post office accountable so definitely working with both Lakeville and farmon to solve some post office issues over here uh bringing home the funding for Lakeville first and uh County Road 50 of course uh I can't talk about more more of the importance of that so we're hoping to bring that through the to the Finish Line uh and then she's going to be in District this week uh Luke and Justin are going to see her on Friday uh to talk about kind of all the stuff we're talking about here but um a little bit more in depth uh with her uh and we're also having our inaugural special education Advisory board meeting this week and hopefully figuring out the best ways to leverage the federal resources to take some burdens off of not only our school districts but our Educators and our families that are uh you know enrolled in special ed programming around around the district so lots of exciting things as much as we'll get as much money back to the district as we can and uh I'm happy to be a a resource for any of you guys in the process of all that our taxpayer so thank you that's not me but I'm happy to take it for represent K uh we were just kind of I figured out what we before thanks for the invitation I have reviewed the 2025 legislative priorities it's a good to see that they've evolved over the years without major shifts in policy positions um and as far as theti committee in the house uh the Interstate 50 I35 obviously is the top priority of everybody in this room and um we that through so I'm optimistic about that enough's probably been said about the status of the legislature if you have any questions happy to take them but I don't need to uh or you don't need to hear my opinions on it um other than to say uh more globally that I share commissioner holberg's um sentiment that what's happening and what you're seeing on the news and what you don't see on the news is disheartening to the institution of the Minnesota House of Representatives and that's weighs heavy on me but uh we still have a job to do and my committee and and I and our colleagues will continue to you know address the needs of the residents of Lakeville and our in our districts the we can despite the circumstances and a report very good Wy as long as I have a captive audience here I have small constituent request as you know I live backing up to Cedar Avenue the city doesn't have a noise ordinance but the state does have an ordinance that requires bufflers on all vehicles and not only is traffic getting is is there an increase in traffic but it seems like there's an increase in people running straight pipes instead of of having Mufflers on semis pickup trucks motorcycles and for those of us that didn't qualify for a noise wall it's getting really really loud so I would ask the chief if you would put some attention in for that any other conversation questions again oh I was just going to add uh the county is posting a legislative breakfast on Friday and I know a couple council members and my myself are going to be there and then like Alison said Congress Craig's going to be in town we're going to do a tour down Progressive rail so that project and then we're also using the opportunity to show her the location of the first center so it's just going to be an empty ugly building first um let me just say I'm I think on behalf of all of us we're just grateful I know not every city has the opportunity to have the legislators and Commissioners come in and have this captive F sta um we appreciate and we do not take that for granted so we really appreciate the partnership that we have it's really important that we are on the same page and understand kind of where we're coming from so just grateful for your continued support and partnership with the city you thank you yeah you're welcome to stay for all these other conversations this is this is going to be probably well this will be the longest worst guys every day I think my door is always open really [Laughter] is 15 years a little bit we're going to have um bo rock discussion conversation about that um Joe is gonna te this up and to you're on the list okay got it got it uh good evening uh Council and mayor um we are here today seeking some input on two proposals that we received in very close proximity for similar events uh both to be held in downtown leville uh so new food truck festivals uh so we'll cover a little bit of information on that I Know Chief has some input on that as well and then we thought it maybe good for both groups to maybe speak shortly about um their individual events there are some differences in their proposals um so and I know in the memo we covered some of the basics uh timelines you know the proposals themselves were included I know from uh our perspective From staff's perspective did seek input from the downtown Lille Business Association we received some feedback on that and I think you can kind of guess what some of the general concerns and and recommendations were there I know speaking also for the Center property uh there are different impacts for both events um and looking at the fact that they would be annual or proposed to be annual events uh it's something I think that we would also want to take into account just limited access for that site as well as the other businesses downtown I don't know do you want to yeah we can get into specific questions as we go to but just in a general sense um you know my role is just to I think uh voice what the public safety impact could be to to events such as this not just these two things but um community events and and festivals like this have a different look than they than they used to uh specifically in Lakeville we've got you know appr 880,000 people so we have a very busy city outside of these events years ago we could kind of dump all our resources into something like this going on uh downtown but we've got a big city to cover um so so most of these things we're calling in additional staff overtime things like that um and also just keeping these events safe looks different than it used to sadly just with uh some of the things that have happened nationally so there's a different strategy that we use a little bit more resource our intensive to uh maintain safety which is our our goal and our primary goal of uh making sure people have a good time so we'll answer your questions that might have as we work through okay do you want the groups to speak now shortly briefly or do you have questions you want to jump into no I think let's let's have the May folks give an overview and then maybe go over some questions and just do the same for August of next sounds good and Dan were you nominated nominated all right uh hello uh dan t uh you know me from pan frog I'm in charge of the the food booths downtown lak field during ppro I got Jason from b52s and I got uh Hayden here from Jerry Delight uh so um our uh we did meet with the uh we sent out an invitation we did meet with the downtown Business Association uh we had uh uh we had a proposal that uh that they they they didn't they didn't quite quite liked uh so we did uh look at some of their suggestions and uh actually uh chose the site that uh the the Art Center parking lot has a has a as our site on this thing um we're looking at U uh about 3 6 to 40 food booths downtown uh at the Art Center parking lot with u a music stage uh in the the North Lawn uh of the of the parking lot and then also a Kids Zone in the north North Lawn of the uh uh Art Center uh so the parking lots in between those those two areas um there's obviously uh we need to work out things with staff and uh the city uh you know it's always a always a partnership uh on on different legistics and stuff but this one uh this food truck festival is sort of patterned after the uh North Lop food truck festival in Downtown Minneapolis uh where they just basically do it in a in a parking lot and uh just line them all up uh but uh other otherwise we have changed uh our event license by uh it was going to be Jason's b52s Community Fund but we do have a nonprofit uh that is actually going to join us the lak fille South boosters Trap Team Sporting Clay a team uh they're going to uh be a partner on this to a lot of our volunteer work on that and uh get raise some funds for them also um so I think that know a little bit this a little bit lighter than the subject you guys were talking about earlier so uh so we're gonna we're gonna do add a add a little fun to downtown and uh uh you know I've as you guys have seen me before here uh or or seen me around town and stuff I've been in involved in panon frog for over 30 years now and uh I don't live here but I don't know why I keep call back but uh so I guess that's sort of is in a nutshell and if you got any questions like I said we did meet with the downtown Lille Business Association and uh there were about 15 members that that showed up there at that time mayor do you want us to ask questions no it's good night May yeah um so I'm a little naive on this um location and the fact that to me visually it seems smaller to be putting in so many um food trucks into it and not enough real room for um serving the custo for the customers to hang out Etc um and I'm sure you know according to to your information you went and checked out the parking lot so you must have measured and realized how many trucks you could get in there Etc um I'm still a bit concerned about um because it's condensed into that area and then all the people trying to come in and year estimates of how many people would be coming were um what did you say 8 to 10,000 yeah something like that that's a lot of people all day long yeah um for that and I'm just curious as to I realize that you'd like to be downtown but as far as more room and more space I'm curious as to you know maybe hzy um it's still downtown but it's a little outside of downtown but it's definitely a bigger area to work with um and especially because um I realized that parking could be a little bit of an issue but between Maguire and JFK there's quite a bit there's a lot of Green Space um there to host um people to just hang out listen to the music Etc I'm very concerned about how um concentrated your space is yeah and and if my biggest concern is is that if you want this to be a yearly event you want the first year to be as successful as possible with Word of Mouth um you know because that way your second year will get bigger you know what I'm saying and and so um those are kind of my concerns with your proposal I think I I love the idea of having another Community event so that's not that I'm just I'm very concerned about the space requirements on your proposal well a little bit of the you know I think your intention is to keep it downtown to help support the other businesses your initial plan would be to have more space on the street but now the businesses where they're not going to see any other foot traffic if we move right I mean I think maybe it's a little bit High estimation 8 to 10,000 people so a lot of people I think um the nice thing about it is you have the the building and to keep it concentrated he did everything to scale so there' be there a 15 to 20 feet in between each row of food trucks is that what it was um so red bull as a vendor has a six foot outdoor heavy weighted high top tables with a 12ft umbrella so then that covers like a majority of the walkways in between so they'll be placed uh I think it was there would be room for four in between each of the rows and then there would be a tent with uh picnic tables on either side of the wand so that would be able to keep things kind of really nicely spaced out and have a flow you're able to really control stuff to that way so I think there's also like an advantageous side to it being a little bit more of a condensed area you have a little bit more control as far as not letting things kind of just be a a free for all everywhere with without having to handle like [Music] perimeters and like I said this was similar to the north loop except that the north loop with probably their aisles were like 10 to 10 to 12 feet wide uh it is drawn out to scale uh except that I got the the trucks at 10 feet wide and they're only 8T wide you know they're not no truck they 10 feet wide uh and then uh you know we we we talked to the station they looked at different different things and stuff and it is uh uh part of the no just like just like at PPR part of the fun of everything is the other businesses that are around you know you're walking around you're you know you're you go to you go to the some of the bars the restaurants the Dairy Delight you know you're just sort of engling around town you're hey hopefully you know as as we as we know there's even though we're 80,000 people there's probably only 40,000 of them that know we have downtown and so every time uh you know there you light here every single week oh we didn't know downtown was here you know so it's you know bringing bringing people downtown I mean I've been a supporter for downtown for for a long time and I guess that's sort of reason but I think that you know you know my hope hopefully we have 15 10,000 bill but uh you know it's it's an event that you're not you're not going to stay at all the whole hour I mean there's going to be people you know coming and going because I mean basically you're most most of it is just eating uh you know I mean we're not having no big bands it's not going to be big big expensive bands and stuff uh and then and then the children's area and stuff but we hope that they're you know Milling around downtown at the bookstore looking at the you know all the other businesses downtown that was get me my question is what um how is access is this envisioned as something where people are just coming and going freely like you might go downtown and oh wow there's a food truck thing there and and I can just walk in or is it one of those deals where you walk in and you have a ticket and you stay there until you're done ad yeah no tickets um we have it you know fenced off and and gated off uh basically that is uh uh the gates and the fences just so that there's no alcohol uh leaving the premises this the site uh b52s would obviously be in charge of the uh the alcohol sales uh down down there in that in that area we have the back entrance for the lot off uh to the west of howand that City lot area and so you have access off of the do they all have their own individual generators or do they have Central Power for I've never seen so many food trucks together yeah they all have their individual generators uh we wouldn't be providing um uh power to the Food Drug fake we have during during during Pan the first issues for me are how does this impact operations for our classes uh which are Revenue generating from the city uh and you know another event where we potentially are hiring overtime officers and this is only a few weeks after ppro so in terms of capacity and adjustments oh sorry this is the main one either way right um so I'm just curious how your responses to that impact yeah so the I can speak to the art center uh and we did speak just about access to the facility with that many people obviously won't be able to use access going from Center standard parking lot there are classes scheduled for that day daytime so we would have to try to do that through Howland typically this weekend in May and that's why I was saying as an annual event I think there are some concerns on our end that weend make typically is three performances Friday Saturday Sunday um this year it was canceled by the production company so this year it is open um the past 10 years it's always been booked sure uh the dates for August there are two Youth Theater performances planned at the art center but their impact is different to the property then then this is where the structural differences are set so St with theater has two shows that day on August 2nd so um I would just say from a well cheap from a safety perspective um you know we continue to see whether it's holiday and Main or DLB these big events that are drawing a few thousand people downtown just people zipping across Holio you know really with no regard thinking that it might even be closed and it's not so I just I want to make sure that we would in addition to having Security in the area but then well around 209 than all this other direct traffic it's just it's a problem yeah honestly for us usually it's the periphery of the event where we have more exposure because the event is pretty good at taking care of their own things um so the staff that this would be something we would you know like outet bring in additional staff we wouldn't try to cover with those scheduled to work our regular shifts that dat advanced notice helps us um you know P brogs July obviously it's a heavy lift Department wide um and you know I don't looking at the plan we haven't taken a deep dive just we didn't want to get too far ahead I mean I don't think we're looking at 15 to 20 officers by any needs um it's not you know huge huge numbers and we supplement that if we can with volunteer Reserve officers some of those but those are ones that you know they're on their own time and so harder to get them in for for many many events throughout the year uh so that might dry up a little bit um but those costs are passed on um within reason to the event that they are established C Fe for officers or or reserves or csos so and we work with them to determine a reasonable number things like that do you work on a Case by case basis for what the number of officers y look at the event we have some comparables and um you know like has been mentioned there are going on in other places so reach out to them and say you know what are your thoughts and what were your needs and and try to come up with an educated plan and and a good plan to be within reason but also to keep it safe have we ever needed to just recommend private security because of capacity yeah we we shy away from that a little bit just because when you say private security it can mean a lot of different things and there's a lot of different organizations out there some are very good at it some are not um not speaking for any events here sometimes to C to C some cost they go with a cheaper option and it can be almost more of a hindrance than than an asset but uh but if it's extra sets of hands in the event or or you know just extra sets of eyes you know we wouldn't hesitate to do that but it really doesn't um impact how we staff yeah speaking from just experience of PA pretty well with the city and Reserve officers deescalation you know we like to hire the coup exra officers to be on site and that kind of stuff so if that was a recommendation or anything like that of course we follow suit with parking for this I'm assuming it's going to be street parking find which you can yeah street street and then the city the lot there's 100 spaces back in the in the back lot and then all to the church and mire and uh around around around town yeah because I mean it's gonna it's interesting because you know the request was for more concentrated area so it didn't impact downtown enough this is going to flood the area with vehicles I mean obviously there isn't going to be 8,000 people there once but they're I mean it will impact access to streets and stuff don't well we said down a lot of downtown businesses that their main feedback was not wanting to close Downtown and not have because Dan had drawn up a couple of different proposals with downtown and so uh for a couple of people there was a request to have it remain in downtown but off of downtown so that's kind of by their advisement of of some of the people that had requested and that can be a benefit too when you're parking and you're walking by shops and bu just for me to understand like perspective people what would it be an equivalent ppro event size is this like we brought some Bingo siiz crowd you thinking uh you know yeah that that brings about 5,000 I think inside but that's more shorter window yeah right Taste of Lake Fielding remember numbers on 1500 1500 get up to 16 17 yeah that's more shorter time that's a three-hour period I have a feeling this is going to be more open house come and go a few things for kids to do stop and grab a few snacks check out the parks hopefully it's a nice day what what were the hours you're proposing 11 to 7 lunch and dinner service type Saturday afternoon CH point or high points closed to you so oh I mean having talked to a lot of food truck vendors this there is a demand uh I think there's a want for an EV like this there's no doubt about that um I think for me this year is this this is a good compromise I'm glad you went to the DBA to seek feedback and then change the plan accordingly um to respect their their wants there I just don't know what happens next year and what plan is because I I don't want us to get in the way of performances and other activities that are going on at the art center in the future we can have another conversation I was I would say I'm fine with this proposal for me else yeah I think it's a good idea okay than up a nice team because we all have our own respective yeah areas of expertise so yeah so maybe we'll just you know see how this one goes then we can regroup at the end of the summer and figure out it makes sense from a art center maybe it is moving locations and who knows I think we probably learn a lot guess yeah gears August 2nd folks want to yeah give us a rundown on your plan yeah this is f uh the strangest scenario hello Hi how are you yeah she's been in a ton of our ads um so I'm Jess uh this is my business partner Tom uh and uh we've been doing this for a long time and we've organized some of the largest R festivals in the west and earlier before 2020 in the country um I don't know if anyone's familiar with the Uptown food CH Festival obviously that's like something we're talking about on steroids right and that that area can accommodate that uh when 2020 happened that that area changed a lot but prior to that we had started branching out into cities like Lakeville that asked us to come put events there um Anoka being one of them very familiar with the social District if you guys want talk about that um Hopkins is another one who also has a theater just down the road and when we this event on they do have showings and it's never an issue perking is never an issue either um but yeah we've done 30 of these food food Tru festivals in six different locations we started North Lop in 2015 with um the brewery down there and then we kind of let we kind of handed it over to the association right the assoc association still runs yeah um but our vision is similar to what his original one was which is still our vision which is Main Street um you know the main drag Holy Oak so from 2 207 to 209 or upper 209 um what we notice when we do that is that it actually benefits the businesses it's always viewed as something that is going to be a deterrence for restaurants especially and it's that's in the case so it's a sort of a la of large num thing I mean especially every time we've come into a city for the first time um it's scary right I serve food right s enter a restaurant you're going to have food trucks outside your window well again there's going to be 10,000 or so people throughout the day and why we really want to focus on you know the city center here right downtown is because as even mentioned earlier there's 880,000 residents 40,000 probably only know about downtown will extrapolate the whole metro area right East Metro West Metro north south I mean not everybody knows that there's a beautiful downtown here uh with with the Main Street and so we really want to showcase and Center that we really uh Market these events heavily we always talk about um the location what it has to offer things of that nature and we've again seen this a few times too where um it just ends up being a really good day for local businesses and uh restaurants because we don't serve everything that they serve we don't have everything they may have we don't have you know air conditioning things of that nature so there's being a free event and just bringing people to town it's one of those things where you're like oh I came for this food truck I had that but that restaurant looks amazing let me swing in there and so yeah um with that too we always provide ample seating and tables for people to sit at or stand at with their food but there's yeah there's a lot of things that the restaurants have and then people can walk by the shops um you know go in and out of shops and if there ever is an issue or or a store owner has a problem we like to go to each person individually introduce ourselves leave our contact information let them know how they're going to be affected if the roads can be closed from what time to what time and then we we leave our cell phone numbers so they can tell us if there were any issues whether it's the day of or or after the day is over with so we can address those things and and talk about them together so that's a big thing that we do um I have ran the Minnesota Food Truck Association which is a nonprofit for food trucks in the state of Minnesota uh for the last 10 years and um so we get the majority of them are part of our events and yeah we these are the only events that we do we've done 30 of them um we know how many food trucks are needed for the amount of people we know how to lay them out you know which food trucks not to put next to another and as long as they show up on time or leave some space we can accommodate but yeah we we've kind of got this down to a science and uh we also try not to ask much of the city at all uh the only resources that we would ask for would be whatever you require of us like up Duty police um and you know we like to pay you your services so it should only generate money uh Hopkins only had two cops last year uh for us it was no issue they asked us to um supplement that with our volunteers which is Feed My Starving Children and uh any other type of security we can have at entrance points enter exit points but we're super familyfriendly event uh there's lots of stuff to do for just about everybody including animals so um yeah we we don't really have a rowdy crowd by any means and we've never had issues any we also work with um the vanilla group if you guys are familiar at all they do a lot of the large events for trash removal service is so we really believe in that Scouts rule of leaving your campsite better than you found it so to speak and so we we have street sweeper run through at the end of the night and then we also have people throughout the day um you know servicing Recycling and trash bins and uh making sure the site's clean because everything you do produces waste and uh usually work with each City to ask when their trash is picked up and if you guys want us to cover your trash can so you guys don't have to worry about that it's a lot of trash it accumulates a lot of waste it's our largest bill um so if you guys don't want that we cover your trash cans that's something that our trash guy does and then we Street sweep correct at the end of the day so H question on your site plan um where your beer garden is located is in front of a brewery I don't think you'd be very clear yeah probably not directly in front just it's pretty yeah just talking about history of yeah we'd be happy to move this was just like I'm just while I was wondering if you're partnering or what so that that was my question reached out all so I'd be curious you just want to reach out to until we discuss okay oh so you're open to partnering with some of the businesses open to partnering with yeah all kinds of loc businesses absolutely um I when I went to the website that was listed on your application it's just like in process for now for 2025 the way oh yeah we haven't we waiting to re-release so to speak well I was hoping to look for some of like the history of like the last year or two just photos to be able to see you know what your event looks like our Facebook is a perfect spot to go to if you have click on any of the cities were you able to click on any cities that were listed in the top tabs like an NOA or Hopkins okay so I didn't click on those I was by what was on your initial happy to show you a work on later but uh if you just search Minnesota food truck festival even imid search but Facebook um and and I understand not everybody on it but that's a good way to pictures too we have a lot we do a heavy PR for on every news station multiple times throughout the summer oh I'm not critique I'm just saying that it was just a little hard for me to you know I guess I didn't take the time between Friday and today or whatever to even make any phone calls to see I guess I I felt as though that you definitely have a lot of experience in this so that was extremely helpful I mean I and I like um the fact that you know you partner with charity to be able to put on the the event Etc um and I guess I do agree with the theory that um that the even though the downtown businesses have just kind of like put up some resistance um I don't think that they really [Music] understand the benefits um it's a little you it's too if they were to take panag and mind that's different the mindset of the people that are down there for panag are thinking about other things than business related and I know that with your proposal to your your bringing crafts something else to be able to attract people to walk around and um basically would make them more entice them to go into the businesses because now there's they're also in a spending mode of um the food coma now let's spend about live music throughout the day and music in other areas like a mechanical bowl or you know we have a vintage a mobile vintage record guy who plays music so we kind of try to put those at various ends and we create we do everything we can to make each area the place you want to be not just one Central spot um so yeah that also helps people with so when you invest sated downtown L you you had to have saved yeah okay and how were you going to overcome some of those which ones are you talking about well I don't know let's go for the obious and parking parking like like attendance coming uh so we we are asked this every time you go City and somehow the people just find places to park it's pretty incredible um or they walk or they ride share um lot of people take buses but yeah I don't know it's never been like a major complaint or issue once the event happens kind like yeah not there we made it I I know yeah no I'm not saying that it's a complaint I guess it's what I'm trying to figure out is if you when you researched it you saw okay this is definitely different from anula and Hopkins you know how would we adapt to the city of Lakeville as far as putting on a successful event in regards to specifically parking well anything I mean you you guys are the pros I don't even know all the the obstacles but you had to have encountered them when you are coming to a different city each City would have its own problems certainly um we do see a lot of commonalities just as a whole you know with Anoka and Hopkins I'm not trying to say that you guys are the same because obviously every city is very different but we found as when we do like for parking for example in a city center people just figure it out they're used to kind of figuring it out in the city center if you do something like in a parking lot and um I can use our St Paul uh event as an example people like expect parking more so than if it's like in an actual City Center which is kind of strange to me but um people just have historically just figured it out I know that's not the best answer you're probably looking for but you but it's not always yeah I mean I guess what we would we be we would be looking for is your guidance and suggestions so I mean if you had you know an idea or a solution to that we' be totally open to exploring it so when I ask questions is not because I have an answered I've not my question so I you know that's why I can't help you with the answer because I don't know it's just a question that came into my mind and there's no thought process behind it i' probably know there's more parking down here than there is um but I did have a question about your experience with social districts and how that changes the event uh from cities that do and do not have oh my gosh social District it's a great question we were super nervous about it last year we really we knew it was in the works but they were talking about it for 2026 no 2025 is when it's supposed to get rolled up we heard Rumblings about it yeah many years ago it told us we we we're super close with the city um we love working with inoka they've asked us to come back every year since 2017 we love them um we were really nervous because that's a big generator for our charity it's a big generator just for expenses you know in general and it it blew our expectations on the water um I don't know you'd have to ask aoka what kind of issues they're seeing with their other events they they gave a cap on their social District timeline to end before Halloween so they don't let it go to when everybody's like getting really crazy um they just do it from May to Labor Day I think so that's interesting and I don't know if that'll change over time but the whole idea was to get people to the river uh and that Park area where there's new Band Shell if you're familiar it's gorgeous and we actually took their advice and we moved all of our stuff off of the Main Street area and over to their after five years of being on Main Street so great it went really good it exceeded our expectations and I almost feel like and this is akin to what we were talking about earlier like maybe we were an established business so to speak on the on the Main Street and then all like them changing this was kind of akin to putting a food truck festival in front of the front door but it all worked together and like it was amazing and you know you're two were like we're looking forward to it they got the idea for the social dist can you talk about if you've had any conversations with our buiness association we have and this goes back to we wanted to talk with you guys feasibility before I'm to put the C before assume that anything that's approve yeah I mean a lot of feedback from them will help us a little bit in this situation because as I look at the site map it looks like you guys did a pretty good job where most of the businesses you can still access but you know that's I'm assuming on a Saturday you know there's still karate lessons there's still pottery and there's still other stuff going on um and so I just I'm hesitant on um the street closure because pprg is in its 56th year which is Our Town Festival yeah we get plenty of complaints from businesses who have dealt with it for 45 years and I think we do a pretty good job of managing it I'm just saying it to be very upfront that I think this is a great idea I don't know how it's going to work we got we got to hear a lot about P prag yeah we were in our initial meeting yeah so I it is it is a major source of some frustration of business owners and I can give you 100 reasons why I agree and don't agree with them but I'm just Ling that out there that that's the environment in which is I think why not to compete you guys against each other because it's very different model but it's a little bit easier to sell the compact parking lot than this and then 10 days later is our Tesa Lake which again is different but still draws a lot of people downtown um so I know again you know Michelle is right I mean hassi is a unique side I know you want to be downtown but we could have more conversation it's an outdoor sheet Dev iice that we have covered is part of it plus there's a giant parking lot and then there's a junior high rning store that's just qu model out of our downtown maybe show that in the side but we shared both so we shared Hy casperson okay with both groups as as options um my point being is and these guys can wait I'm not completely gonna make a decision I think this is an ongoing conversation I think we have plenty of time I think I don't know what your kind of window is but uh I'm not saying months I'm just saying over the next couple weeks we need to have some conversation with some stakeholders okay but and I'm I'm curious too when you talk about the site I see entrances and exits and I see the yellow or I actually have two questions this the first one yeah the yellow borders is that a soft border or hard B more Visual and then the entrance exit points are more or less areas where we would expect people to naturally enter and also we also be able to kind of make it a little bit of a choke point so that there's some control in terms of what's coming in and out yeah so traffic delineators senet barricades safety things like that and obviously uh open container yeah okay so okay and then the other question I have is more uh it's Lakeville is interesting because we are a community where a lot of the people that live here don't realize they live here and so I see things downtown and I'm going what an opportunity to get people engaged in downtown that would normally be so I'm assuming like looking at your website and in the information that you're probably advertising as far and wide but do you do anything special in these communities that you're in to hit the areas that aren't you know within a couple miles of downtown uh to let them know about this and to encour oh sure yeah so I mean we go door too if once we're approved in any City that we're at um like we said before just to make sure ask what their needs are make sure like we'll show them the map get contact information but if there's any else that you guys feel that we need to touch and there's a good way to do that absolutely we'd love to and then we hope that we usually go around the posters y just anywhere that we can and let people know the surrounding area um and then we just hope that word of mouth or Media or having would be good for anyone who's within the proximity and so you looked at howy Arena and the new Pavilion and thought no this wouldn't work it's not that we couldn't make it work it's that you know the way that we truly believe that this event is going to be the most successful is to put it right down to and and again with our experience of 30 events doing exactly this this is what we what we see I I've just been on your Facebook page and I'm hungry um I love the concept I'd like to make something like its work um my concern is the timing of you know how close to pan prog to I mean that is hugely disruptive and this is just a couple weeks later that would be one reservation I would have but um I'm impressed um by by all you've got on here looks like a very professional run thing and I think it would drw people down there and be a good addition yeah so I guess my encouragement would be let's talk some more over the next if you're willing I mean we're open to it we just we've got to work out some Logistics with some of our our neighbors because again I mean downtown's weird because it's a business dist District but there's also residents and obviously business owners and land owners and all sorts of yeah okay can I just ask let's say just hypothetically that we say Okay run both festivals one in May one in August the May one because now you're helping out a local um you know the trap shooting Etc would be receiving funds for their sport or whatever and then the August one to have two festivals does that deter the numbers that you would expect at either one and so really it just comes down and I realize that I'm just a hypothetical not I'm not you know Advent but I want to hear from you guys how running having two festivals one in May and one in August would affect either or event so we don't know how you guys feel we won't speak for you but um like we don't know how this approval process works exactly or if you guys want to take more time um we feel that it would not benefit the city to have two at all we think it would be confusing in a lot of ways for a lot of people whether it's the general public the city uh or even the vendors not knowing which one they what's what are you calling her that just like okay so that's we have the domain for that and all for that so um there might be it might be confusing I think in a lot of ways so I guess respectfully we would ask we would either out we'd asked that there' be one basically for and again for the community I just don't think um I don't even think Minneapolis could support two of them that makes sense I I had to ask and this is a first first time for me as a council person even thinking about some kind of event like this so you know that's why you're at a work session yes totally we have no clue what really it involved and that's you know and um I would like to get the pros and cons from the chap doesn't have to put himself on the spot now but I mean if you have a thought process on which way these events would run which one would be you know um better for the city um because either way you know you've talked about the fact that you know you try to keep the costs down for the city um and I'm hoping that you guys would try to figure out a way to keep the cost for the city too so um I because ppra is usually a joint venture right so the city knows they're going to pick up some costs we kind of donate a lot of money to be able to run the yearly event for pan for the whole Community um so anyway I I just don't want to ever see us get in a situation where we're having to budget for a food truck festival our event shouldn't have to cost the city anything you guys should make money off of our event uh we're used to getting invoices in the mail a couple weeks after our events and we pay for off duty police and player and uh we bring in our own trash we with warning lights to close all the streets uh we work with them intimately to make sure everything's safe we usually ask the chief of police if this is good we ask whoever else in the city if this is good or if we miss something and have to add a barricade and then they let us know but we we do that we we build it all day of and take it all day down day up and um we like to believe that somebody could drive by the next morning and be like that event wasn't here what do you mean well um did you want to say something I just I I was just gonna comment that I don't think that you know they're they're bar enough part I don't think that there is a problem with having two two food truck festivals um you know it if their numbers are more accurate or my numbers are more accurate we're talking let's say my my are 8,000 people that's that's 10% of the population of Lakeville alone not not Apple Valley not Farmington not elal know not not all that so you know and it's you know the summer busy his school year is busy uh so I don't I don't think it's a problem uh and it's you know I mean eighth largest city in in the State uh so I don't I don't think it's a problem you know I mean it's it's twice it's twice the size of uh of Hopkins you know they feels so I mean you guys know those numbers but uh I don't I don't I don't see there's a problem uh every every uh every weekend uh from Spring to Fall we have a food truck festival that has six to eight 10 uh 10 food food vendors out there m fet Farms right no I realize there's a huge following of people that go to follow their favorite food trucks so they go to different communities and I realize that each of these a festival is not going to bring just like bu people it's going to be bringing in people from surrounding communities um that follow food trucks so um would you guys be willing just to in the next couple days and we can work to connect you their business downtown Business Association list some feedback from them and then we can continue this conversation definitely um and then we'll just go from there if staff is okay that okay just work Joe yeah and yeah we have AAS on from the Council on the DBA so we'll make sure that they're included I suppose the only other question I have is um and Joe maybe Chief's here but you know all of our all food trucks that come into Lakeville have to be inspected um and and so it would be a matter of how that would get coordinated that suddenly there could possibly be 30 food trucks that aren't haven't been to Lakeville that would have to be inspected and that puts a burden on the fire and you work it out make sure everyone knows what permits they need and when they need to have them by um and a lot of the food trucks that are inent usually are inspected by Lakeville at least fire for sure um I don't know if you guys have an additional inspection that GL the fire one fire one um long before August we would make sure they have that taken care of would let anybody in our events if they would so okay they to provide it so we monitor it make sure after a certain date if they're not up to where they need to be then we might one the only cities that actually had a food truck explode so we're just a little bit we pay a little bit more attention yes he likes to bring that up a lot surprisingly yeah I thank God it's a thing yeah um well thank you both of your grps for coming in and our staff and we'll kind of just appreciate you guys want to take H Through Fire [Music] Ready set go yes sir good thank you um yes good evening everyone uh I'm Dan quam for those you that don't know me president of the relief Association board with me my colleague the vice president cam Washington Julia Joshua are also very involved with board so on behalf of our entire membership thanks for letting us be here today to participate um and obviously um lots of exciting news with respect to the fire department here in p last year um in large part motivated by the safer Grant we October um so you know this year the memo that we're proposing doesn't have as many substantive requests or change requests in it um really there are three things that we wanted to call to your attention two of which require some action on your behalf one is really just informational so um hope everybody had an opportunity to bruise the memo um and really the the first part of it and I'll call it the most impactful piece is a proposed change to the best schedule um we tried to be transparent last year when we were having the same conversation um trying to foreshadow that that would likely be a request made this year um and thankfully uh as a result of some good market performance um the the fund is very healthy right now and it's actually becoming unhealthy and the fact that it's overfunded um so one of the ways that we were able to work with our partner CLI Larson Isen to run the numbers and make sure that this proposal is fiscally sound um which it is and that's highlighted in the appendix but um you know we there's really three main reasons for this proposed change um one is to right siize the funding level itself two we have nine of our current paidon callif figh Fighters that are going to be converting to full-time and under the current um vesting schedule of 520 a number of them who have put in significant time with the Department are going to um take pretty significant haircut on the pension benefit that they're they're required for leave the fund upon taking a full-time position so we want to do right by them and also so we're just you know realistic of the current dynamics of Pon call firefighter um tenure which is it's pretty rare for people to make it 20 years it stats so we feel like this is a um reflective of the current times and what a lot of our neighboring uh cities like Lake bille are are doing um so um I'm happy to answer any specific questions on that piece or would you like me to just work through the entirety of it and then field questions uh we can take it session by session okay yeah um my have you had any conversations internally to say um you know because as we've all discussed I mean our long-term model is to still have hybrid right you know so we don't want a bunch of guys to retire do you think though at the same time this may incentivize others to stick around because I think at one point the average was like seven or eight years I mean you think that's so can we stretch some people out a little longer than the seven or eight year I mean what's give me the what are they saying good I think part of it fits into um the overall long-term Vision right I think this 515 I think we LED out in here or at least alluded to our long-term vision is not our ultimate stopping point you know I think eventually and it's another point we'll hit on is that we're looking at this this other type of funding model which is defined contribution yeah contribution right um and maybe changing the best more again to what Dan said looking at the reality of what a payon call fir fighter is and setting us up for success in the future so for the short term I know we we ask around it's hard to get a straight answer from people right like no one's going to tell you yes if you drop to 15 I'm I'm gonna leave like no one will tell you that um I think it it's being real realistic about it it opens the door for some people to leave so I'm not going to say that no no one's that no one's going to leave but again you look at maybe a guy who's at 11 years now he's looking okay can I stretch it out four so I I think it's it's a mix it's hard to get a straight reaction from people but I I think over the course of the last year it's I felt better about it you know a year ago I think when we were presenting it there was that concern again as we were going through the the significant change of bringing on those first full-time firefighters things kind of died down over the past year so I don't think that's as big of a concern that's good feedback any else have questions about that I'm I'm fine with the change I think it makes sense I look at the numbers you know unless you know I look at in 26 that the return is at 2% I just hope that you know if if inflation is still high and you know the Market's not doing well I hope you put in bonds or something so you're up over the 2% but just as long as it's managed well I'm not concerned about you know the balance at least in the next couple years so I'm fine with that so does that we just we'll just change that in upcoming meeting yeah it'll be a res meting concerns that as long as they're gonna also work on changing that I just don't I don't want to ever have to worry about the city having to py up it hasn't happened in the last I know I realize that he has done a fantastic job no we we feel really comfortable about this and that's like where we start every conversation on this topic is how do we avoid ever having that occur so we all just a cou years ago that I got nervous and I thought uh oh we're really booring on the edge but you've done really well with it and um so great thanks for your support we hit in a minute but again at a long term they place that we want to get to does mitigate that risk for so we can we can hit on the second topic and then the longterm Vision yeah go ahead thank you guys so the second topic um so current composition of the board itself is there's six members from the Department um we have four officers president vice president treasur and secretary those are the only compensated roles we have two trustees that are giving as much to the board um in terms of time and effort and thought as any of the four officers and um today they have never been those those two trustee roles have never been compensated and um none of us that are on the board do it for the money um but it has been an increasingly uh it's become more time consuming as these you know meteor issues have become righte so um we just think that it's only right that our the two trustees on the board um are compensated as well and just so everybody I can't remember highlight or not it's um presently speaking the treasurer and secretary um received $3,000 annually the President and Vice President received $1,000 and then obviously the trustees received nothing so last year on average we each um did about 120 to 140 hours that we committed to the board um so you know you do some simple math and you're not making minimum wage doing this so trustees traditionally people who are learning to then step into a president role or they've been president hang out great question um during my tenure I I think that's kind of how it it was M um but you know the trustees that are in place now are they've been around as long as C and I have been around um one of them's actually was a former officer that's now Steeps down into a trustey role so these are high contributors um they're professionals outside of you know their department and they bring a lot to the table do they I mean is there what's their job description of your trustee um um you know I think the way we have our board set up there's there's not really defined job descript right there is for I'd say the Tre secretary um President and Vice President somewhat but as we've kind of evolved our our board we're all delegating tasks to each other right like one of our trustees does handles all of our food for the waffle breakfast he puts in a ton of hours there and it's that's just what he's taken on as his role um and so it really varies like at large board yeah and you know some of you were present at our banquet this weekend um the the scholarship that we put together um that was spearheaded by one of our trustees and he's I mean they're doing meaningful work in that role can you clarify though where this money is coming from um paid at special fund right yes so it's not the city's no budget line at these rols are being paid out of so do we really care negative about it but I mean if we don't have to vote on it this is a this is a state thing um so we looked into it if um we would not be asking it if we didn't need your approval say that we thought it was a very minor we were surprised that the state mandated but the state mandates that for Relief Associations if a trustee is to be compensated it needs to be approved by the municipality and so that is why we haven't it I don't understand you're talking about a $3,000 a year right yeah the trust you would be compensated $1,000 actually 4,000 yeah yeah it's 4,000 D it's and membership Ved so no you guys first so depending on what what happens tonight tomorrow um we have our relief meeting which kicks off our boat and our members have the next week to vote which puts us by Monday city council meeting to have our votes okay perfect so we are we wouldn't actually officially vote until after the membership so we me take it I gu here's how I see the plan out we would all say today but we're not actually so legally stay I don't know how your process like I don't know if you can't start your process until our next meeting next week yeah we we vote and then we don't ratify our vote until you have the final till the city council so that's what our process has always been once we present the memo then we do our vote as a membership and regardless of what happens there none of that is valid until it is approved at the city council meeting can you finalize it by the memo it wouldn't be effective until council's meeting let me ask has to take a vote first or you guys we I here we have to leave based on the consensus whatever we whatever the consensus is here we're going to do a vote this week regardless so that yeah okay I think we're that will be the rest of this week tomorrow through Sunday we need to know by Thursday at noon to be hon for monay got it got it okay last year we will make sure that we expedited the best for our ability let me just say this I assume you guys are GNA approve it we will put it on the agenda and if for some reason you don't we pull we'll pull it up appreciate that good point can I just ask um one more did you bump the President and Vice President just because you were going to do a um truste I guess my thought process is if we were good with 3,000 for the treasurer and secretary and a, for the president vice president and if their roles really aren't going to be changing much basically you could just add the trustees at a thousand each I'm not trying to diminish the roles but I I just didn't know if you bumped it up a thousand annually because of the titles part of it was to get some separation from the roles but as an example Dan and I president vice president we're here tonight so that as we said that everyone's there are some increased responsibilities with the officer role so there is some separation there because I imagine treas secretary have a lot more like outside hug yeah outside not the treasure and secretary paid more than ask the same question because yeah the extra their accountability my my guess is that the reason that they have us weigh in is that there was probably some bad pension somewhere that was paying ton of money and the state said well we'll fix that by making every city it's it's because the funds are coming from the payment or their salaries are coming out of the special fund which in turn right the city has a liability out of that special fund so if we go through budget cuts okay I think you we came around with the solution on that one and then the last topic is really just informational at this point cam uh alluded to it but um we do think that the best result for our membership will be at some point converting from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan um there's ample precedent for this with other departments that have gone through similar transitions like the one we're going through um but it's not right for conversation today we still need to you know we're working with some Consultants to get smart fast but um we've pull our membership that this is something that we're looking into and we're committing resources to but um it isn't something that there's any ask tied to it today or council do you want to add anything about your point about how that mitigates things and some of their concerns I think is worth touching yeah I guess I can just give a really high level and I know I've been working with we've been working with uh some of the I work on the pouth department I think some of you might have met him mayor I think uh you spoke with his wife as well um so you've been a big consultant for us but basically the the overview of the defined contribution plan again is that it takes that fund that the city is currently on the hook for and it distributes that to the active members and then going forward is State Fire Aid money that is being distributed to the active payon call Members so no longer does the city have this $14 million fund that they're backing it is Dan has a fund I have a fund and it's all in a market account that can grow or Shrink with the market so it's no longer are off the hook for that fund they can never drop below 100% because there's no fund to to be backed so that's the the the big difference between the two and other cities that we've talked to have seen good success partnering with the city in terms of how those State funds are in fact allocated between membership and the city itself yeah so just as a reminder the state funds are meant to go toward retirement of firefighters it doesn't say paid on call so um we also now have full time and so the partnership is is a great way to say we need to come up with some sort of allocation between how much of that's going to continue to go to the payon call Firefighters and then fory our pair of responsibilities as an employer of the fulltime thanks for sticking through the first two thanks for letting us be here take a brief um break I know you guys have been sticking around for the housing five minutes go for okay thank you for the opportunity to talk a little bit about um some ordinance work that we talked to the Planning Commission about in December um this all started with a meeting that the mayor requested and convened on August 26 with several of our local Builders just talk about some of what is getting put into the different legislation that we've seen over the past couple years and try and have a early conversation with our Builders as to what they see would be some of the kind of lwh hanging fruit easy things that we could adjust um some of these are are pretty Minor Adjustments um that could result in some cost saving so we asked Dan lick our planning consultant over the years to put summary together and kind of Define these I'm not going to go into the minutia that this memo does um and I will preference this that he knows these ordinances better than I do I've been here two and a half years but I still don't know the zoning code forward and backwards but I will you know attempt to answer all of your questions but Dan did a nice job in the memo of just putting together the history of the zoning ordes and where some of this stuff stem from why it was created and then try and touch on why we're considering um some minor changes now so I'm just going to goe of topic by topic we could talk about them at each topic or I could go through it and then we could go back whatever you desire I'll just start with the first one attached garages um so we require obviously in our zoning districts a minimum um for garage size um there are many cities out there that don't address this at all they just assume Market is going to drive what buyers want and you know adequate garages will be provided um some cities will just say to accommodate two cars but they don't um attempt to um require a minimum width or minimum size um we do both um for a single family and um should be two family and then detached town homes and attached town homes so the big difference in Lakeville is for quite a while we've had an increase in requirement for those homes without a base and again it's for that very reason you want to accommodate the two-car garage you want to be able to accommodate um storage space so the thought process was to increase that from 480 or 440 to 540 additional space for that garage when we talk to the builders um I didn't get a lot of cost data from many Builders I asked for them to provide it after the fact and everybody holds that stuff so close to the chest but it was rubly a three to five up to 6,000 savings if we were to go down to um 440 for all Town Homes um again the thought process there is you're buying a town home you know what the garage size is you have vehicles that can be accommodated in that garage size and you handle your storage that's the thought process are you finding from Builders maybe you want to weigh in the attached town home are you finding empty nesters and they're got so much stuff they're probably getting rental units anyway yes I would say so for sure so this is one thing that the Planning Commission supported in terms of the reduction but keeping the minimum weight so we do require a 22 or in a townhouse at 20 foot minimum width and that's measured on the interior so that was the conclusion that the Planning Commission came up with um to share that with you you know we can discuss this one now or I can cover all yeah we'll go Section by section okay anybody have any input on thees yeah F other than cars are getting [Music] bigger the 540 is very generous though far kind of like we talked about at that meeting it really increases the building path size and again just really impacts overall cost of the house okay so that seems like we have consensus on that change all right residential buffer yards this one still confuses me the way it's written in ordinance but basically um some older ordinances really try to push for um any type of um higher density getting into the town homes again to have buffer yards when you're adjacent to bizer streets and it makes sense you want to have screening you want to buffer those areas further enhancements to the ordinance really dug into the height of that requirement so pushing for requiring verbs which then reduces the in the amount of land needed or increases the amount of land needed I think I've typed that out wrong and then reduces the amount of buildable area as soon as you're bringing the firm up you're just um you're wasting buildable land and so in talking to the builders um again a lot of the conversation is about how to use land most efficiently and knowing that we're going to be faced with a little bit increase in density three and a half is certainly better than four um reducing the amount of buildable land is going to have an impact on that and so the council or the Planning Commission talked about um acknowledging that also acknowledging that people know where you're buying if you're buying on a busier a frontage Street you know you're going to have more noise um again um some buyers are smarter than others to do their homework and understand that but is it the job of the ordinance to protect that so the commissioner has discussed exploring this um I don't have a specific solution but just trying to get our arms around just the amount of that required buffer to save some more land for construction but is the required buffer also a safety thing if you're off on a busy street and you have a burm and you're going to suddenly go into the ditch or S you know your car is doesn't that protect it could yep I mean I guess I'm not and I assume it also helps with noise it certainly does um but I guess from a safety point of view I'd rather have us look at it a little bit more I realize that you know that's not what the builders would like but for safety reasons i' take both sides of that point though too is that the buffer you know does add some screening and uh again the sound piece of it I'm a little bit on both sides of this because it just makes for a nicer development and obviously a nicer customer experience ultimately with well and I guess it's not just the car crashes it's the exposure so for you know um suddenly does it for a safety perspective does it um does it if it if the home are more exposed does that get entice CRI criminal activity so all very good points and we could take a look at that and I agree but for a different reason it's just that I don't think homeowners especially in a new build know what that traffic is going to look like uh after completion and some of our material roads aren't even complete uh aren through streets yet um so that traffic will from from a town home now experience that that I've seen it the the majority are buying finished units at the end it's pretty pre-sale pre-selling in a town home is a lot more challenging than a single family home so most most of the people are going out they're walking into a finished home and they're really knowing what they're getting I agree that that's true sure that's true it's that the adjacent neighborhoods when I I'm thinking Lakeville specific spefic what's left to be built and where our County roads are going to uh connect to in the future some of those those plans I want to make sure that there are protections with BMS and screening for when that traffic does increase in the future so that's I don't know I I had some issues with the bumper yard changes what I will say on this is we're not under our a deadline this is us to have a conversation figure out what makes sense we're not being forced by the legislature today and to be honest I don't know how much I want to do before the legislative session really gets kind of finalized to know what it's going to look like because I may not be as friendly if we get a bunch of mes not that I think there's going to be but you yeah well and I you know and from a staff perspective we're not married to any one thing um in any of these so you're not hurting my feelings by pushing back we're just we just picked out things that do have an impact on you know whether it be construction that comes with the cost changing that um buildable area that can increase um depending on what's changed could make way for a few more units all of that helps the bottom line in terms of widening The Bu we're not married to any one of these and I want to help them too it's just that I I want to find the right balance exactly for the right purpose yep NOP that makes sense so we'll with this section is this specifically regarding Town um no it all of the different districts to some degree depending on what you are either AB budding um has an impact so it would be single family and town homes because thing we live on a major road there was no fence in our backyard along atava and the uh privacy fence solved the noise it solved the the people looking in um it solved the lighting I mean know I thing we see past that thing now is what a fire lights so I mean I I think there are options because I do agree I mean it's like you kind of know where we knew that we bought the house it's like we'll see how it goes and it didn't go very well right off the bat so we found a solution but it wasn't like we're going in blind and I certainly I'm not sure it well it's an 8ot it's a 8 foot bence so I'm not sure 10 what a 10 foot bu so question for your uh over on 2005th Street what's that do you don't have any idea what you had to do or what you lost on 25 I don't think much was lost at all with the bur okay so if you're gonna go 10 feet up how wide is that if you're going to do a 10 foot burm yeah how you're GNA have three to one on on each side so yeah could be three to one slope it's not a tech It's a combination of trees and buring okay right so most of the time it's a three or four foot burm and then you've got Landscaping on top of make difference yeah right we can look at that one little yep okay single lot um Family lot requirements um so the little table you can see what our different um lot size requirements are um in 2010 RS4 was created um to create kind of that first small lot single family district and RS4 is at 8400 square feet then further changes were made after Spirits PE and Avon Le to kind of create in the ordinance the ability to do this without a PUD and that was in the rst2 so by right it follows the RS4 with 8,400 square feet with a conditional use permit you can have up to you can have lots at 7500 square feet or 55 feet in width um so that again is with a conditional use permit then with that there's a whole bunch of other little rules within the ordinance that become very complicated for developer to figure out become cumbersome for staff um those bullet points are there um it's a lot of um averaging um it's limited only 35% of the development only developments of 100 acres are greater and again it's by a cup so a developer has to jump through that extra hoop and so when we were talking to builders um suggestion was um can we in the rs2 by right go down to that 7500 Square fet um and not have to jum through all of those Hoops so have an entire development to be able to have that lot size and have that flexibility one of the things that staff has concern over with that idea is making sure that the development is still designed well when you have a lot of small lots and the streets are really straight all you're going to see running down that street are going to be the driveways and the fronts of garages you're not going to see that um change um with the varying lot size in development so we would have to if we were to explore this change have standards that are put into the ordinance that would help us prevent that from happening and then work closely as we go through plary plaque review the planet commission supported that idea um again seeing the merits of um the flexible lot size that is probably one of the number one things that you do hear at the legislature that we do get hammered on is lot size Lakeville certainly allow that flexibility now um by by making a few of these tweaks we could make that easier to do um both on the developer side as well as um City staff in reviewing the plans I don't have I don't know if you came with cost information on the difference in the lot size going from an RS3 um to an RS4 to 7500 Square fet um but it it certainly does come with C baby speed of curve curve basically yeah it uh that that one is a big deal I think this the garage as well as being able just to if it's a margin of bit more units yes density able to put more units same amount of land yeah I mean I'm I this direction you know based on the feedback from the plan commission but I want to figure out exactly what some of these things you were talking about Tina about specifics or whatever in the or good example Mak me sad a good example though is like I think in our ordinance we encourage or require Cur linear streets you know we don't have a lot of grid Street type designs you know those are the kind of things I think we want to be sure we retain a good example it's I forget what's the name of the new lar one that just came in Cedar Hills North Cedar Hills North yeah I took five times when that first came in I mean it was it was just a grid I mean you know so and not to say developers are lazy but they're going to try some developers are going to want to try to pack as much in the easiest way you knowers straight line um and so it just takes some effort from from us to try to make it a little bit of character just works so well to use the existing Topography of a neighborhood you know to curve streets around C makes for just a much nice I think the only thing I get sad about is I'm spoiled I have a you know huge backyard you know but I realize that that's all something that the buyer has to consider just you know and I realize that you're that you know that they're going to be able to buy a less expensive house because they're in a jam-packed neighborhood um that hopefully that they only live there five years and move on up in our but you know I mean that that's their there's that's there and and that's true not everybody wants maintenance but I'm telling you just having the space and not having your neighbor right on top of you is like the thing that kept me in my house for 40 years just with changing demographics to an aging population you know people just starting out it's it's nice to have that product diversity that you can be in a smaller home with a smaller yard maybe no maintenance there's a lot of movement in that direction a look though 20 years later it hopefully will be more cracks at affordable housing even then you know depends on what appreciation does in real estate but hopefully it just continues to be either that first home or the last home for people is they either age there's but there's less green States right so I mean I guess I I I just I'm wondering does it have a tendency after 20 years to look rund down oh that's a hard question to answer you know depending on neighbor R down neighborhood no no I understood and I'm I'm just saying that it depends on is an association maintain what are the rules of the neighborhood um as far as Spirit goes I'll refer to Spirit the homes I mean there's some now that are 20 years old and there's a lot that we had built in there that are now 13 years old and again the neighborhood still looks unbelievable just from the neighborhood standards guarantees did the city have that by making these zoning ORD changes we're going to get more affordable what guarantees will smaller l in the amount of curb that you have is going to be less expensive on a small lot but well you're restricted by you know what setbacks are the one that we're working on in Ritter I mean that that is a 35 foot l hole know varing Square footages from a rambler that has we have one that that is 12200 square foot on the main you know and then you have basement to up to we're developing a plan that's 2700 Square ft that's made an uper so it definitely by having a smaller home I I just share base costs with you on it they are way more affordable and again having something that is either 50 feet wide or 60 feet wide ton more costs everything everything that I basically see now um with our larger homes just the six and Bricks costs are you know from three 350,000 to 400,000 the homes that we're working on in Ritter basically the base cost of the home is down in the low twos basically up to 300 so just by taking smaller lot but you're selling those for what then that's constru that's the cost of construct so after all I think I share the base presentation they're the they're in the forms yet yeah I don't I don't think we're kidding ourselves we have a conversation with the builders that we're kidding ourselves that even these minor changes are necessarily going to result in what some would even receive as that most affordable starter hole you know trying to get down to 3350 maybe in town homes it could but the way it was described and supported by the builders it bro it still lowering it a little bit broadens the buyer pool so more people are able to to buy it's still not I mean we're not kidding ourselves we're not going to still be building that starter home that everyone materi talking you weren't including the price of land no that's just that's for Sticks and Bricks the land is a whole another thing I mean it when I started 13 years ago sales price right around 400,000 this was a move up home you know these same homes now today um and I'm including everything that we're doing and our average sales price on our larger stuff was 825 you know that that's crazy I mean 13 years that is that's that's crazy amount obviously as far as profit margin it's not that much great it's just what material and labor you know land and everything that you know it cost bring to Market that's kind of where we so how fresh it is for me to actually look at my direct cost and see something that's 225 I mean that's amazing it's it's a really nice home for what it costs so and then in my mind you have the land you have the build and you have the Finish Y and so in2 200 some thousand house on a smaller lot yeah is that getting finished in a way that's going to make it more affordable too yeah really looked most all Builders and this kind of where everyone's at because everyone knows the affordability thing we we all got reality where as far as what's included in the home how much stuff is included in the home really we need to bring it down get a base house that is Affordable let people add in what they want you know do you want the window there you need to necessarily include that or you just giving it away you that that helps by just really looking at what spec level you're putting in you know from cabinet syst going to sound ridiculous but how many drawer Stacks it's just it all just adds up it really does when we talked about this in August shared you know those homes you go in you know it's you have four or five different color schemes that you can choose from and then with that you choose and if basically suited around the cabs and then with that they have the matching Granite the floring and so forth they' come up with another option that doesn't include the grant so it's got you know Callet um and so they've added that choice into their small single family in Brookshire to help address that because I don't I don't know what their sales we haven't gone that yeah and that everybody is they they were the first um of that group they they did share that and um but you know across the board and you know Justin kind of brought it up during the last legislative um session um one of the builders on one of these 55 foot Lots the house was still five it was like 540 and then you read the design or you read the description of the pray of homes and it's got all the luxury finishes so you know is this you know some of these Chang to stop that behavior or change that behavior no um it would be ni nice if if housing first did something to kind of check their own membership um I'm just that kind of thing but um I'm not kidding myself and I don't think the Planning Commission is is thinking this is gonna radically change that it's not going to but it will help yeah it's little baby steps okay so I'm hearing some consensus on this idea as we flush it out with some development standards okay all right Bas SL setback this is a little bit like the buffer thing but a little bit different um most of our town homes are done with a unit and base lot configuration and so we have this requirement that then we have a 30 foot setback from the perimeter of the development that you have that 30 feet and then the development the the buildings whether it's detached or attached around that whole base lot and so there was some discussion about reducing that a little a little bit maybe down to 20 ft to create more avilable land and then the ordinance is confusing from District to District regarding the setback between the different homes um there's a whole slew of different things that are Dan written up that I did not include in the PowerPoint and so the idea is just to create some consistency refine some of the requirements a little bit but still have those distances um but just in a little bit smaller way or um um less distance way and then have greater consistency across the districts so that if someone has um you know across the board they're not going from one District to the other and not understanding you know it just gets confusing and so this one is really more a little bit more housekeeping um with also the goal of creating a little bit more buildable area this one is probably the the simplest and less intense ask uh the only thing I was trying to figure out is does this essentially shorten driveways no it wouldn't it it wouldn't impact the interior of the lot it's more of the distance that's required at the perimeter so it wouldn't change the driveways would change distance between houses it could we got 14 feet at most of the districts and one is at 20 feet um Dan went into that with a little bit more detail than I'm doing here but just part of the problem too is the ordinances have evolved so many times um codification causes some problems or lack of codification um I think one of the things we'd like to do after we get through the next round of complants is simplifying our zoning districts reducing the number of residential zoning districts um which will help a lot did you something yeah the 14 and 15 feet is really consistent now across this valy seems to kind of be the minimum Center the most we see is the 75 and 75 so 15 ft between structures good all right the next one is exterior materials again this has also evolved over the years um there's requirements that were standardized in 2000 um that created exterior finishes for detach town homes and town home um attached Town Homes again the intent is is um to M make sure that these structures are built to um allow for long-term minimized long-term maintenance particularly unattached um at one time um Chris Jensen was telling me that HOAs were required to cover exterior maintenance on detached Town Homes as well as attached that has changed a detached town home is really no different than a single family home um and so that's one of the things that we want to talk about um but you can see the requirements um on the screen again um this is something that the builders are pretty passionate about um and again one of the requirements that we really want to zero in on is the challenge between the requirements applying to detach Town Homes um we're seeing more and more of these in our developments these are homes that are designed look feel operate like a single family home but they're ploted like a town home and our single family zoning districts have zero exterior material requirements zero but our detach town homes have that whole slew requirements and so one of the things that Builders would like us to consider is reducing the requirements um and or remove the requirement for the Bricker Stone a lot could be done with design with variety of LP sighting hardboard sighting in different textures um different patterns that really do a good job of breaking up the house without mandating the Bricker Stone could start with a change that just addresses the detach Town Homes see how that works and then consider it in our larger attached town home buildings the difference there is the larger attached town home buildings do have Ana that cover maintenance um typically so again the Planning Commission was supportive of learning more about this um this is pretty much the main reason Paul's here tonight again the builders are very passionate about this one there's a lot of costs and you can explain it better than I can that goes into the requirement for Bricker Stone um and cost savings is between 12 15 and so Paul was able to share some examples um again this is probably more most familiar to you in spirit um but you can see every single one of these homes there's no brick or so but it is a variety of LP sighting and that sighting is done in Shak style board bat um vertical horizontal to break up the fin to break up that exterior design um trim is also more effective on Hardy you can do the wider trim um the different colors and so forth more specifically and what's relevant now is what's happening on um rare Meadows and so rber aous spot all of the detached town homes that are going into all those lots that are going in rder Meadows and again these are the detach Town Homes it's a single family and so you can see on the left and then the right um the change in the home front with that mandate to add the stone and you can see in my view um my opinion on your on the left with a variety of LP or Hardy whichever material they choose you can still have a really nice looking front um that has character um you know Design Elements and so forth then I didn't pull up all your pictures that you provided but here is another example of a one story and again the difference you know it's like the the Brick they're faced with P 25% where am I going to put it so they slap it around the garage um again you can explain where those extra costs come from it's certainly not just material but the labor but this is something that um I think does result in tangible um cost savings to the homes and at a minimum we'd like to start with addressing this with our single family detached because again R1 R2 R3 any of regular single family residential districts there are no so couple questions I mean c the stuff on the left looks fine I want to develop an ordinance that you know had that my like question is there seems and I don't know enough about it there's this working group of the legislature about HOAs and what's the future of that so I'm curious about what type of impact State changes to HOAs would have on long term just curious I just have no idea in fact it is it not I don't know are you part of this working group I just keeps getting all to I go to but I have no idea what it means just got on the board of housing first so I think I'll probably start to learn a little bit more of some of this stuff with with this where where majority of the cost came our original plan you know was to to not use the stone kind of like we've done in spirit and honestly On The Backs and sides to use V matching vinyl because we got a lot of examples around the cities where the vinyl you really don't see 15 ft between the structures and it honestly matches up really well um between the L requiring the lp or do forget the number all Stone around the whole entire Foundation that was a a monster cost uh just by doing this by adding back in the lp and by putting the stone on it was roughly you know 12 to four 12 to 15,000 in cost additional and what you know I had done is I established a base price for Ritter without any of it and now just to make the adjustments and I I didn't put any margin on the cost I just put 14 of of cost and then I up the up the sales price 14 so it's not like we benefiting off it and to me to have this as an option if people would like to pick it you know and add that where you know it is something they want there's something they may not want you can I mean both sides look all right but even the stuff on the right you know around the garage starts to look a little heavy so one of things that we would do is add as an option a variety of um so still require the lp party that kind of sze so you still have the durability but have a choice either do the brick or you increase the amount of sighting Styles so or textures shapes but you still have that break um in the building it's particularly important you know you're getting into the two stories so um that is the type of wording that we would add to that that choice aesthetically pleasing yep yeah you wouldn't want to have all just straight lab on the whole thing by having two or three different styles on it it uh it's it's definitely helps the Aesthetics look at I'm G speak on that subject you're ready thanks for thanks for allowing me to speak tonight um I anticipated the response that I'm listening to tonight on me detached and so so that we speak in great length to that um first of all why did this get get established in the ordinance to begin with now it's because the town homes that were being built at that time and historically had been built in Valley Park and like Town Homes across some City Hall built at a time when we didn't have Hardy sighting and we had I would call inferior products that whipped water and the conditions that we observed as a staff um in the older neighborhoods um were causing great financial impacts on HOAs to deal with the conditions that had to be address literally reciting whole neighborhood whole ho and were great had great adverse impacts on those living there and in some instances literally forced them because they couldn't afford the substantial Agway monly fees that follow to what um ccil member U Mich said V reference so that got adopted and if you drive around the community look at the units that have the brick stone prodct requirement primarily you see on the photos they were around Gage doors and they were in the backyards along the base of the backyard of the base of the house and why was that and it was because we determined that hway have maintenance in the way of lawn care snow removal and they take their to on siding and so the ordinance which has been in effect now for 20 years um if you just drove around and looked at the units built in the last 20 years ago you'll see that they're in great condition and there's no deterioration occurring structurally as a result of private contractors snowplowing weing at all as part of the HOA process I speak is not just former vice president of Dr Minnesota who was totally responsible for all the establishment of all new ches but I speak to it as a resident in Lakeville who's lived in HOA Ts for 20 years 10 years Boulder Village 10 years at bante the first to live in both those neighborhoods and president of H for most of those 20 years responsible for budgeting and responsible for the HOA fees today the greatest problem for HOAs is Insurance costs have gone exponential and is creating some real challenges especially for retired persons in these uh tunel home settings which which are the types of residents that are primarily attracted to them that's pretty welln 30 few students live within either of those neighborhoods to this day probably less than three or two two or three in each of those 84 units facility buildings projects so I'm a strong Advocate and what's not happening here is we're not talking to the HOAs and I'm concerned about that and I want you to know that this community the quality of the housing and the ability for it to be maintained at the level that they've been maintained for 20 years they still have the same sighting they still have the same brick Stone Etc M maing and they held up beautifully and it it speaks vies to the community and the ability for resale and the ability for the quality aesthetic look that we were seeking in the community and I'm and I believe that if you spoke with HOAs or took the opportunity not just to talk to the builders I respect what's being presented here tonight for the most part can agree with many of things that have been said based on that those that meeting with the builders but I can't agree on the exterior materials because I believe it's the foundation that's a right word by the way it's the foundation for long-term condition preservation and if you look at either of those neighborhoods um especially balante is good example nearly it's nearly 20 years now um since uh that that was constructed they haven't had to spend any money they haven't had to spend any money on anything related to the foundation structural or exterior sighting zero and if they had to spend that it would be an extraordinary expense and a burden and and it would work against the value of HOA and and the the Aesthetics that they provide Lille so um see if I missed anything um oh Roden control oh city of lakel requires man requires irrigation for HOA Town Homes correct and that water historically before we had this ordinance was a automatic contributor to wicking I don't care what kind of Sting have it's it's not an ideal situation so the irrigation requirement is another factor that was taken into consideration when we required when D required um or recommended the the provision that's in the current ordinance today town homes in Lakeville run from 400,000 upwards to a million dollars can you imagine upwards to a million dollars in bante today they're sewing for 700,000 to to a million dollars depending on the unit and by the way now what was missed in this presentation that's not a criticism it's just an observation is that the sidey setbacks on the detached Town Homes has been dramatic ically red so the newest example of that would be the the towns detach along just immediately north of of LDS church you know where I'm speaking look at the narrow sidey yards and those sidey yards when with runoff are very challenging for the foundations and how water can't escape that as easy as they were in the town homes that were previously built which which double the side yard set facts that that we have today so more density allows more units allows more profit for the Builder but it doesn't take into account the value of this provision which is a insurance to the problems that can and previously occurred without it so I I still I still am contacted by my former ho for input and ideas um and that's because of professional relationships and personal relationships and I would at the time this if this goes to ordinance public hearing I would reach out to the HOAs and bring this to their attention because I don't think they support this and I think they understand the merits of this provision and the value that theyve realized because of that Pro that that instruction in this case I'm talking about detached Town um that's what I'm talking absolutely and we're really only bante is all the main the main way that again you run Stone if something's installed wrong Stone Wicks up the same way that if you install siding wrong in one way we've gotten a round is the maintenance trip and that's a much cheaper requirement you know than putting Stone on where you would have basically you cover your drip line you may have two feet of edging which also that way you're not putting your sprinklers right up next to the foundation you're actually providing kind of a buffer barrier for the guy with who we live and everything yeah I mean I think that we didn't have any final on this and I think there's more to learn about the products I a lot to when we change the ordinance for high ve when they bu their gas station right so we had our old ordinance required straight up brick and they say well there's this new product and we learned a lot so I think there's a lot of us to learn about construction materials and Bob you make a very good point I think there's there's a med in there that we'll be able to find but not today but we'll on these obviously you know it's not an HOA that's responsible for the exterior of the home it would be y um and a lot of it is has to do with the front elevation so we're not saying you still don't have to do the lp or Hardy around the side that's allowed in the ordinance today what we're saying is this addition of to just put bricks somewhere versus having a mix of different styles of LP or Hardy whichever product they choose um you get this we're focusing more on design than durability because we're not moving the requirements for the durable materials and that was I should have probably made that very clear it's more of the aesthetic requirement of forcing Rick to be added somewhere for the sake of an ordinance you look at you look at the rear the of the Tom today under this ordinance this is a good example of the in the value of this brick and stone mostly brick at this location and then the entire back of the and it really makes a difference in points structural integrity and the lack of required maintenance and the expense yeah that's not a requirement right now in our current detach the way requires you can pick on either or Y it's that fourth bullet gives flexibility so what we're proposing is really um the exception on the front and giving more flexibility on the design on the front so we're still mandating the durable materials around all four elevations but not Mand certainly any even durable material if installed incorrectly will will be destroyed by what we'll more Right Moving okay the last one is our PUD acreage minimum for low density developed areas so those areas guided low density on the land use plan um the minimum requirement is to in order to utilize a p is 320 Acres we're getting into more parses west of 35 not going to have that but we all Al might want to use the p as a tool again cooperation with the developer not a mandate um as we're getting accused by the legislature um so we need to reduce or remove that threshold so that PDS are more available um in our remaining developable property that's fine all right is there you mentioned earlier mayor um concern over timing to work on some of these changes we have plenty of time obviously our Builders would like to see some of these changes made sooner than later um what is the desire of the council I just have to ask because I mean well I think the ones that we I don't think we any of us were opposed to where when the Planning Commission supported it so those ones I prioritized we could work through those quickly the ones where think we had hesitation the commission had hesitation we should continue to work again you know let do we do it right I rush into something just to rush into something okay we just appreciate you listening so homeowners associations is there a requirement that they have to stay in association forever written yes the answer is yes I don't know of any exception to that these detach ones would I think be impossible because you have so much common space between you just have basically the box and everything else especially most of them now have community building and I think there's two questions there there's a question of how long do they have around and how long do they are they around there some there's not as functional you go around any City and you'll see old entry Monument signs that have the name of the neighborhood yeah and it says an HOA or something like that and they have HOA [Music] does um so it it depends on how active they are and how well they are managed but I think the market really driving a lot of community space that it will require right playgrounds Community Building pools we don't have any Authority though there created they their own entity own little mini city um just want a clarification on which ones are green light which ones will bring it back okay um I think we were okay with gares the buff we're gonna have more conversation about um single family lot we were okay with setbacks we okay with more conversation about exterior material we need to have find out what the right number for acreage on PUD is um we did not talk about that was still on mment was it not yeah Planning Commission did not want to entertain those and and I would just say um that is very likely a place that my colleague Mayors and other cities are willing to compromise the legislature on so we may want to just wait and see what happens before we spend time doing an orience may be for not here I don't see that there's a major demand for it yet there's just not enough people really the yeah we have a certain allowance form right now certain are but they they they don't really make Financial sense unless you build them when you build right you have enough s right it wouldn't work on every lot it's again not stuff people are bringing up at at this right so there was a proposal last year that Subs didn't matter that they were going to require by right which was a concern one the day at the time thank you yes um let's cruise over to talk about bonds thanks for your patience mayor and council members managing your comp time we have Jessica Green here with us tonight managing director at Northland um I'm just going to go quickly over the bond structure and then we just get deep dive into any more details with that um we are looking at the bond isurance being roughly 23 million 5 million of that is the street reconstruction portion which is is a 10-e um length and then the C portion oral Improvement project portion 18 million um and that's 20 years that is for the uh first center so um when you're looking at those costs of the first center you know you're all very well aware of how much is getting funded through the federal and the state um money construction cost right now we're estimating um at 25 million roughly I'm rounding up so um and then with those roughly $8 million in the state and the federal money brings us down to our 18 million that we would have to bond for and as you're all well aware um the intent of the city was to have franchise fees cover the principal interest on the first station and then these fire stations that'll be coming along um so that's it in a nutshell um all let just talk about the and by the way the bond B opening on the first center is jary 30th so have time after those bids are received if we need to re tweak that portion of the bond we definitely will have time um so can I ask a question about the structure of yeah so part of the conversation when we were talking about franchise fees was if let's say we continue to build a lot we collect more franchise fees anticipated are we able to accelerate the payback or or how how does that kind of work on on that because I know in the first years on as a council there's a lot of opportunity to do that but that was based on market conditions I just don't know what like what are we required um let's do this if it's okay with you yeah so let's go to it's page two in the finance plan and it just gets the sort of high level detail as the executive summary um so first the staff memo does a really nice job of sort of laying out kind of the purpose of the the bond issue um so I don't have a lot to build on based on of what's included in the staff memo but I think that the uh the executive sumary will answer that question that you have mayor so um again we've got this size here of 23 million 40,000 based on the bid opening that's going to happen later this week we will go ahead and adjust those numbers if need be um before we um bring the finance plan back to you in February and then of course before we go out for sale in March so um proceeds here again we be funding Street reconstruction and collector rehab projects and then the C portion being the training facility project the security being the general obligation Pledge of the city as noted in the finance plan and also in your step M we are anticipating that those franchise fees are to fully cover the CIP portion of the debt service now related to the repayment term um we've got a final maturity here be um out in 2046 we've got structure for the Reconstruction piece being a 10year term and then of course the the CF portion being the 10 years um estimated interest rate interest cost about 4.18 that does include 25 basis point cushion um Market's been a little bit of a seaw lately and I know you've all been paying attention to mity rates but been just going up and then you know' been seeing Corrections and it's pretty much been back and forth every was made things a easier but I mean we've got we've got a little bit of a cushion in there for planning purposes um hopefully things will start to settle down um as we get a little bit further into the year um we saw some nice rates in the beginning of December and they kind came back up and now I'm just kind of like I said a bit of a seesaw but um but mayor to your question here so bonds maturing on or after February 1 of 2034 can be called for Redemption beginning February 1 of 2033 so that's your call date so at that point or at any date thereafter you can call the bonds in in whole or in part so you can call in certain maturities um You can call the bonds in and whole um or at that point you can restructure the bonds um whether that's for refinancing or shortening the term or lengthening the term if if you're not receiving the way that you hoped so there there is sort of a way to change the structure at that point but you do have that lockout period through 2033 about eight years no flexibility yeah um and if you were collecting additional franchise fees over and above you're planning for you could always just kind of leave that into in The Debt Service fund you're kind of placing those into um and sort of SC that cash away for when that call hit so you prepare to call those in at the earliest time does that help yeah it does all right um and then let's see here just a couple more mentions here so of course we're going to be seeking a rating for the issuance all of the numbers that are included in the plan this preliminary plan assume that the city's triaa rating would be affirmed by moodies we have no that would not um the bonds will be considered tax exempt nonbank qualified obligations being that you are issuing more than $10 million in the calendar year um as always there are of course risk factors in the issue of any Deb any risk factors that we're aware of we do include in the plan itself um and at public sale and that is planned to occur um on March 19th we would hold the sale 10 a.m. that morning and like we typically do we come back before you that evening um with the results of that sale and then we'd be recommending um unless there's um some anomaly we'd be recommending um award um to the lowest bidder based on that true interest cost and that would allow for a closing to occur on Wednesday so then to continue project so are there better r on St is that Patrick's Day all green people are just very generous that day and say oh they celebrating it's it's the day the Luck of the Irish she 19 but 17 um you've got a number of different schedules in here um the breakdown of the sources and uses for both the CIP portion related to the training facility and Street reconstruction portion excuse me um and just a number of um notes and details that are included here I won't bore you to tears with all that information I know you've been sitting here for a number of hours but I happy to dive into any of it if you'd like to so I will conclude my comments there but like I said happy to take any questions now I just I we'll see the continued Trend where it's a group of banks that are all kind of yeah so we would imagine um that again you'll be seeing national attention um especially upwards of $20 million so very attractive size um but yes we would imagine that there would be a larger Syndicate um fitting alongside whoever that little b is all right thank you as always have two minutes on food trucks no I'll just say this as a member of the Arts advisory committee yeah couldn't believe that I was sitting here listening to this when we've never ever been told anything about this we know nothing about it and I have the utmost respect for Joe so tomorrow I'll I'll reach out to Joe well I'll reach out to our chair and then I'll reach out to Joel but um when you think about we spent many years trying to get this Art Crawl going downtown which was to Michelle's point tonight to Joshua's Point um takes a lot of time to make things successful the Art Crawl we've worked on for five years and we only in our second year and we take baby steps to make sure it's done right and done well um I just everything I listened to tonight was um absent any knowledge involvement contributions on the part of the art advisory and I'll just reach out to Joe tomorrow on that subject because there are so many things that you know that we don't know we we would like to know just because we feel strongly about our responsibilities for what has been a huge success in our finance building thank you all for that but um I wrote down 10 questions that you probably already have the answers to that we don't know anything about but I'll do that starting to tonight before I go to bed thanks uh iure discussion your city administrator updates I'll just I'll just I very quickly last week I testified at the house about housing stuff is what it is I was invited to to have the same hearing again said tomorrow I'm not able to continue to update everybody there's any progress on just um I email you the number of applicants for board and commissions so thank you for that um thank you for um reaching out your networks title will be setting up interviews or putting emails out to those people this week um but based on that number looks like it'll be about like a nine to four kind of day on that Saturday that we are we doing it here or okay are we still trying to block those interviews by commission yeah I can tell you right here that's the plan you know if they can't make it we'll have to figure that out parks and W is going to take up first three hours of the day yeah so the number I sent you has um a couple duplicates to to apply twice so that'll reduce that at least three spots still da thing to think about but still better okay I'll second motion second say I thank you everybody