##VIDEO ID:-ikyDlG5Z_k## [Music] for the community preservation committee it is November 21st 2024 at 6:31 p.m. and we are meeting in the Lakeville police station meeting room at 323 Bedford Street we have Lake cam recording is anyone else recording here none let's go around the room to take attendance starting over here just your name and uh your who you represent much Nancy a representing concom Britney laor representing Park commission Liz Nash open space Michelle mcam planning board Susan Spiel member at lodge n l Lakeville historical commission Kathleen baric member at large all right we uh have a quorum we are just missing one member John Lucy this evening and our first agenda item is review discussed and possible vote on step one applications so the first application is the soccer nets which was submitted by the park Commission they were looking for uh some socer Nets on Wheels and the application was submitted to the CPA Coalition and we did get an email back from Stuart and he said unfortunately this project is not eligible for CPA funding any recreational expenditures must be a capital Improvement to the recreational land as defined in section two of the CPA legislation Capital Improvement restruction reconstruction or alteration of real property that one materially adds to the value of the real property or appreciably prolongs the useful life of the real property two becomes part of the real property or is permanently affixed to the real property so that removal would cause material damage to the property or article itself and three is intended to become a permanent installation or is intended to remain there for an inde definite period of time socer Nets that can be moved are not a capital Improvement to the land they are similar to balls bats uniforms Etc and Equipment cannot be funded by CPA so unfortunately that um application does not apply um did anyone else want to comment question anything about that the the only thing that I will say that I noticed and and it was actually in his his other email in relation to to um the next projects cuz I don't think Ted Williams Camp has a permanent conservation restriction on it Ted Williams Camp because it's article 97 L it is yes it is so I thought that that was uh reviewed by Town Council and because it doesn't have one that's why the town's able to use the land fire station no in the original contract when we bought the land it said it was for and it was a whole dilemma back in the day about the comma for uh nany might have to help me for municipal outdoor recreation but there was a comma after the municipal that's how we got everything that we have on there that's how we got the police station on there that's how we got it does still have a restri comma was a huge thing back in the day okay because it was supposed to be you know how that goes away this was the intent was Municipal outdoor recreation but because of that comma that's how it all happened is the comma still but it is article 97 land yeah well I don't think you can take it out if that was so it's article 97 but the town can still use it yes but we could sell it to somebody else but it could because the original purchase and salale said Municipal outdoor recreation so the municipal is in there okay all right cuz I was going to say if if it isn't maybe the town should look into you know did portion believe me it was a huge thing back in the day yeah okay the comma I mean I know it was a big deal and I I wasn't sure what exactly it was I thought it wasn't and well it was the park Department that took issue with everything you know using well I think other people as well were you know but it was then that Pursuit and the thewy every it was that's how it ended up all right well curiosity sake what year was back in the day I have yeah I don't know yeah just kid all right for the um the next application is accessory dwelling units assistance fund uh this one was also sent over to the Coalition and yeah you can come up I'm going to Brandon Don crook hi Brena so we sent this off to um the coalition and his response regarding the Adu units as structured now this wouldn't be eligible here are the issues that need to be addressed the application is from an individual you cannot provide a CPA Grant to an individual for a program giving away public funds the application should be resubmitted in the name of the board committee or organization that can legally re receive and Grant Public funds the program does not specify what the money will be used for what is the $3,000 going to pay for if CPA funds are used the program must result in an affordable deed restriction being provided to the town specifying that the Adu must be occupied by someone who earns less than 100% of the areawide medium income adus are an evolving issue as they understands the rules on adus and is qualified to administer the program according to the statute see this website for all information on the new Adu law you may want to wait for the upcoming State legislation on Adu before looking at this so because there one appli there really isn't a way to be step two detailed so the step it doesn't qualify though because so like I also spoke to a couple people about this and in order to do anything like this you have to have legal involved and so Middleboro has done something similar as well but it took them years to get there and they had to have legal involved and it was quite a process so my thought for this was that um obviously I can't be the executive of the money but the CPA could establish a fund like um friends of the parks Friends of the council and agent no we can't why can't you can't any fund no so we review projects but we can't create a friends of so where does your money sit after project project has been approved like when when the project is being processed and you've got to pay contractors and like for the project that are done where is the money sitting in the meantime with the town yeah it's in the the town and when the bills come through I'm the treasurer so when the B through you madam chair when the um bills come through I would we have to vote and prove that they actually did the work and have the uh response from the contractor and the $199 and all that and then I would sign the bill submit it at the Town through accounting and they would send off a check right so the um construction the purchasing the permits or fees any um you know anything that needs to be done in order to acquire and construct or construct because some adus can be purchased constructed that's where the money would go and after reviewing the email I understand that the application would need to include something like you're going to either rent this out permitting local laws to someone who is um under x amount of income or like an elderly person or Massachusetts is really big on First Responders so let me let me uh pause you right there so the first issue is that adus are not considered subsidized housing inventory yes so they need to have a deed restriction and in order to get there I mean that's a project in itself and then you have to so you have to have a deed restriction put on the dwelling you'd have you'd have to have a process by which to administer an application we don't have a Housing Authority here so there's a number of different like moving parts and and you know hurdles for anything like this especially because like Stewart said the Adu is evolving as as we speak um we know that it doesn't go into effect until February 2nd we expect further further guidance from the state um so this isn't even something to consider at this point because we haven't even gotten all the guidance from the state yet even if if there was a way of developing some sort of a Housing Authority within town that could administer a program like this then have somebody within Town work to create a a fund that could utilize the funds and disperse them because it has to be a qualified individual so you have to do an application process that reviews and and nobody's going to want to submit all their financial information unless it's to a qualified you know responsible party because when it comes to reviewing financials you know people aren't going to the town's there we don't have a Housing Authority at this time so I mean if that's something that the town looks into and and and goes in that direction I think then it would be something to consider but at this time I don't think I mean we just put the Adu definition into our bylaws because you know in preparation for February 2nd right so I don't think it's something that we should consider at this time because it's still evolving and we expect new guidance to be handed down and we'll probably have to bring more guidance that we're given to town meeting in Spring assuming that those guidelines will change so you know based off of whatever feedback they get so I figure because we didn't have an authority the money was just going to keep accumulating until if and when we do got one but it makes sense it was just no and so so the other the other thought that this committee has has discussed is you know what do we do with that housing portion of the money and I know John he's he's our housing person he's not here tonight um but he even looked into it as well we've we've um reached out to the Coalition because I know one of the things that we'd like to see is the subsidize housing units that are going to fall off we we're losing 100 units in 2036 I think if I remember3 um so we've we've also talked about maybe trying to utilize the CPA fund as it builds by that time to try to maintain those units rather than losing them because then that puts us that much farther from our 10% so so there are things that can be looked at for this housing portion but I I don't think this you know is the right time for the Adu one okay so I mean and not just me but I mean that's what the Coalition is saying so basically the the thing is that they're not in Capital Improvements so so an Adu oh is now something that anybody can put on their property if you know Title 5 has to apply wet lens protection has to apply but it used to be you had to have an attached accessory dwelling unit and it had to be attached to the house and it had to be no more than 1,000 square ft this is allowing anybody to put 900 ft accessory dwelling unit on your property and all you need is site plan review and site plan review we don't even have the guidance for that because in order to do site plan review you have to know the setbacks we don't know what the setbacks are going to be it could be the the setbacks that we have in place for zoning but they could be they could half it that's what Town Council has said they could say that instead of 20 ft from the side you you can go 10 you know with your Adu so we're still waiting for all the guidance from the state on these Adu um sort of but it's also what you said about it's not going to go toward it's not affordable housing so so yes back to that so it's not it so in order for an Adu to even be considered affordable it has to have a deed restriction they're not going to be so every ad that's added is going to count towards our regular housing inventory that's actually going to push us farther away from that 10% affordability that we're looking for in order to get the Safe Harbor or maybe we could put a some pressure on so that as they go on as adus go on we should be talking to the people to try to get them to make them affordable right and so I don't think it can be forced no I don't need but you can you talk to people and tell them the options right but but that was the qu when I when I intended the the informational session everybody had that question seemed like you know at least 20 people were asking like that same that was my question I'm like oh everybody else is asking the same thing are they afford can they be counted as Shi and unfortunately out the gate they're not but maybe maybe with some push back maybe the state will or if there's a a tax deduction too I mean I don't know how that plays out the tax deduction if you if you do that I'd rather see them I'd love to see them counted as Shi yeah but it would have to be individually one at a time right at least that's how it's looking but CNS thinks slip through the crack sometimes it's just something to think about to make sure people know the options right yeah absolutely okay so for the next application we have Betty's neck Grove and now this one we sent this over to the Coalition and the response was we would need to know the status of this land is a permanently protected Park land covered by article 97 of our state constitution how do you know it would be under control of the parks department or similar or it would have a conservation restriction on it or more importantly the Town the original town meeting boat to acquire the land would have to specify it was acquired for open space park recreational use pull the original acquisition vote and see what it says you may have to I should have added that Betty's neck is permanently protected Parkland as evidenced by one of the methods I talked about in my email than planting trees at this park would be eligible that meets the definition of a capital Improvement so long as the land is truly dedicated to Recreation so so there it is I know Nancy are you I don't know what they looked into but um the man um I talked to Bren about this okay and um there are two conservation restrictions um they are held by DCR and fisheries and wildlife we just recently had um them come they do a yearly review and um they have some new employees I don't know where the state came up with the extra money but now they're really watching and years went by and they didn't come in every year now they come every year to review um so I had followed up and called and um the management plan 2002 that's when we got Betty's neck and the management plan calls out for educational it's like the heart of the APC it's the visitor center and it's called out for educational so I did call fisheries and wildlife actually yesterday and um talked about cuz I knew this was coming up tonight and the hay Fields is the hayfields are our cash crop mhm um it becomes harder and harder every year to get a farmer to do it there's been years where it hasn't been done because people in Southeastern Massachusetts there so many houses they don't have hay Fields anymore and it's hard to get somebody to come in we finally have a farmer but on our last visit in fact they've been after me for more than just this last visit for a farm management plan is called out in our conservation restriction um on the fields and when I talked to fisheries and wildlife today they were concerned about if trees were planted on the fields it would be harder for the farmer to mow the fields people would be going out to have a picnic under the trees so they would be trampling on the hay and then um and by the way Nancy how come you're not applying for money to get the management the farm management plan written so and okay so that's the the Back Field um the front with the cherry tree and the milked um the problem with milkweed I've been told is that it's toxic to cattle like um cows and horses yes so if it's growing wild it might not have so much of a chance but if you're actually planting it and it gets in the hay you have to remove it you have to remove it or you can't sell it right so that's a problem it's wonderful for certain types of pollinators but it's deadly I guess for certain mammals right and a cherry neat Tree near the peach Barn as long as it's not in a field because that's the other reason that's how we got the money for Betty's neck because um old hay fields in South Eastern Massachusetts are falling away fast becoming developed and the thing that we used another reason we had to have you know the art the historical value the Native American value the old Hayfield value are where um bobbl Lings nest in the field which is why we can't mow the little field up by the beach Barn until the second cutting so that's another problem for the farmer cuz they're losing that money on that hanging because they have to leave that until like I think August for Bobble you can't be mowing down the Bobble legs in the nest um so as far as a cherry tree by the building I would think that would be okay except for the one thing that they also reminded me is I'm trying to get a septic system up there and we don't know where it's going yet so why can't you sacrifice the small field since there's already such an issue with it in the first place what what do you mean some it has it can't be mowed every two until for every two years the bot that's that little place where we park it's not the Back Field that you're talking about that's not the little field the little field next to the people Tre the little field we can't mow is right in front of the PE behind the peach Barn however you want to put it on the back side of the peach Barn I would say although when we open the doors it's kind of the front yeah it's kind of like living on the lake what's the front and the backyard so so looking at this is this what you're talking about right here yeah okay that's the field yeah so that's the field that I'm talking about putting in the cherry tree and the milke weed because there's already a bunch growing wild I understand what you're saying but if there's already a restriction on mowing it then why not sacrifice that field is it really that right well that that's not up to me at all yeah I would have to run that exactly by them I didn't understand by the plan I thought the cherry trees were on the little field in the back from the pitchure so the one in the back was also going to have cherry trees it was going to have two or three ginkos that would grow together and then it would have the cherry trees around it because when you're flying over Lakeville you can find leville by the Lakes so I thought having like this diag of trees would be kind of nice but the other field was the smaller field by the Peach Tree Barn um with one cherry tree and the milk weave but I understand what you're saying about the milk weave oh I see I didn't see it on the back of that other one over there um well no on the milk weed but um I mean I could run that by them I mean I suppose one tree the farmer could go around but the priority of DCR and fisheries and wildlife are there hay fields of course so I mean I could run that one territory on that little field since we don't mow it all the time anyway but we do use it for parking but we never usually go out that far or we haven't so far I mean we just got money to fix the peach farm so we're going to have a really big opening back up kind of a ceremony when all the sheetrock and everything gets finished at the visitor center because it's been a long time coming that we haven't been able to use it right so I thought with this project that it would be a lot of good fundraising opportun unities every year you could have like pre-built bird houses and then people could come and pay money and decorate them and bring them out and then they could pay money to renew it every year or you know take it home um I understand that but that's another question is who does the fundraising we don't have a friends of Betty's neck right and we haven't even been able to do a raffle because we don't have to we don't have a way get a license get to do fundraising right so we currently have the town or members of the Town interested in turning the Parks into a parks department so this would be something that the parks department would do okay but the Betty's neck isn't under the parks no but it's still in okay all right okay I yeah no I wouldn't be blurring those lines they would just be working together okay yeah I mean I love the idea I just think could I ask question maybe not here like I was going to just say like is there anywh where you would suggest would be better would be a better option like I say when I that Aron best this morning fisheries and wildlife I I we eventually need to get bathrooms up there unless I can get a budget from town that we can put a Portage on up there all the time but it's so far removed and there's so much there's no way and then we I suppose we could wheel it into the peach Barn after every event but um well next year's arpa funds might have additional water restrictions you could look into water these are really beautiful trees however um as a gardener I would be looking at more native trees and I'm not sure exactly if it has a Asian name I have a feeling it's not a native tree they are they're not invasive they native from Massachusetts New England they're not native they're not invasive they don't spread plants disappear that also affects all of our pollen and the whole food chain down to large mammals and so I love Geno and we have some at ASO at school but in if we're putting them in a place that is a natural area where there are native animals and pollinators I would hope that we double check to make sure that these are native plants that is the right person to ask well that's what I was actually I was going to say the same thing out of all of the Parkland that's in Lakeville Betty's neck is the closest to the most native um and so I would think that something like these they're beautiful flowering trees cherries are also flowering ornamental cherries are also from Asia um and they'd be beautiful somewhere more people would see them and also there's the um the fact that now we're going to marry ourselves to taking care of ornamentals in the middle of a field out at Betty's neck and the town maintenance crew is going to have to go out to Betty and then go out to the second field they're going to have to fertilize they're going to have to spread pesticides these trees because they're not native they're just like they're high maintenance they're high maintenance and that land Betty's neck was actually saved because it's drinking water for Taunton and New Bedford so now you're creating a situation where you're you're putting in plants that aren't native they're not supporting native pollinators but they're also necessary to change the soil so that they'll grow correctly cover them with pesticides so that they won't get all eaten up and disgusting looking and then probably lots of fertilizers right near drinking water and that whole area was saved because it was old Farmland because it was indigenous uh land and because it was native so I just the trees are beautiful but maybe somewhere else I appreciate that um I don't have the extent of knowledge that you know you do obviously PLS I I did I did consider all of that you know fertilizer pesticides those were never part of it um I understand what you're saying um yeah okay yeah I wonder if what about the empty space at Ted Williams I guess where you guys used to have the haunted house the Big Field over there do you know what I'm talking about you talking about the the one down by the water straight that is prone to flooding um so there are some other issues and they also use that as a spare soccer field to like train in the offseason or on you know during the season yeah okay although maybe with soil it could be because I think they don't I don't know that they use that anymore for soccer and especially with the new Fields they're probably never going to yeah put something new over there well and that's I mean are we looking for a a to what end were to what end is this I guess I was a little confused as to what the motivation is um it was to give conservation a purpose so conservation is nice like it's nice that we have Betty's neck but in reality Betty's neck is just a field and a lot of the generation I understand I get I I know how controversial that is um but in reality it's just a field so when you have people that don't typically take interest in nature or being outside or conser you know conserving things just for the sake of conserving them by adding you know the Grove and the plaque and a bench to sit you're you're encouraging people to go but you're also encouraging people to go with one another so I understand that we don't want Betty's neck to become overrun but I don't think as many people use Betty's neck as should be using Betty's neck simply because it is just a field and a walk in the woods but I know we're working on the peach Barn I know we're looking for funding for programs like we're trying to get people there but I feel like attractions and bringing people places is more than just preserving what once was I mean change change is inevitable but growth is optional and I see stagnant conservation as almost shooting itself in the foot so I don't think I can talk right now because we're on such totally different opposite sides of this subject I just my okay I just have to say that of all people it kills me that there aren't a lot of young people coming around I mean I'm getting older every day and there's just not a lot of young people that's why it's in the management plan that's an educational center and obviously I've never had an event where people don't come yeah but you need funding for that and and the building had a there was a hole in the roof and then we had the mold and the whole bit but we have the money and that's really coming along to get back to educational programs like um in the past like when Nature's Classroom when I was a selectman and I could get the buses when Nature's Classroom was expensive so the kids that couldn't go to Nature's Classroom we I would do a deal where we get the buses and they all went up there and we had a um Conservation Commission would do a a working Wetland pour the water here and show how it works and all kind a program it's fisheries and wildlife would come in and teach the kids about all kinds of stuff so there's stuff we can do um and sometimes we get money when we got the pot money we got money to have a couple of um I guess that's not coming through anymore but I mean the town when there's money available we can do it and once it's in good shape hopefully we can get some grants or um maybe somebody would actually pay us maybe Nature's Classroom would come and pay us to do it at Betty's NE we have a Vernal pool on site I would yeah so we are kind of getting off subject so so we do have that that was the answer to the question there's I'm trying to express that we're I'm actually with you I'm very much on the same side even if it doesn't seem like it but I'm trying to explain to you why young people don't want to invest I think if we did like Trails like you said there's Trails right okay but hold on we're going on we're not coming up with projects respond to that because it's so true right no but there are different Avenues to get I I I think people would go to Betty's neck if there was a better access so I think we all have like our own opinion of what it might take to get people out there but the thing the fact is we have a application in front of us um there are some hurdles it sounds like the milked is not a good fit for this location uh there might be a slight chance that a cherry tree could go in um one of these areas um Nancy I want to know from you what is the if she were to uh get a step to what is the process you would have to go through in order to determine whether move forward or not been here before and I hesitate after listening to you and to you um I don't I've approached other things [Music] um oh how do I I was approached by Middleboro to when we had absolutely no money up there I was approached by Middleboro somebody in the town said Middleboro wants would love to rent that little field for or U for 6 weeks for soccer they'll give you like $5,000 I'm like B so I'm like thinking to myself well you know that little field gets mowed last and it's the season and everything so when I called up to the state to the headwoman from DCR who has no sense of humor I won't mention any names but when I you would think I was Darth vaa you know that would not be an allowable okay so I I hesitate to put myself in that pos position over one cherry tree but I will if you know so so then let's get let's Garner the support of this committee is it so it would have to go through you to go to little more information about if they could about the maybe about the tree it's not native I mean I don't know let's see what everybody else thinks first but if you absolutely put me in that position I will grin and bear it but like cuz I've already been there once about what's allowable and what's not allowable and I was shocked I really didn't think it would hurt the field that much have a little soccer practice there for a few weeks if they were going to and they were against it and they were just like I should know better so now I do stage two if we move forward would look like exploring alternative treat that are in the same vein they wouldn't require as much maintenance they would still be flowering they would still serve the pollinators and if they could I would look for ones with branches so that we could you know do something with the bird houses um but now you're seeing trees like are you focusing just cuz it just says milkweed and Cherry Tree in that little area so the milked would be gone we'd just be focusing on the one tree one tree in the back field where the issues were mowing issues my question would be would it be acceptable to put one tree on each corner so it would just be 1 2 3 4 um on the edge of the field so there's no traing through um and those would also be explored as the same first one was or as the first one was to changing from something that might not survive there to something that was CH I have one more question about the bird houses are the bird houses like for up there or just when you talk about a fundra with bird houses yes we already have a project up there where we have blue houses that are around the whole perimeter out there yes so I would just you so they specifically made in a specific way and they have permission to be there yeah so these would be several years out I mean the trees would need to grow um but it's it's more of a concept of a fundraiser than something that's written down would that you might not be able to put them on the trees there depending on the shape or whatever what kind of birds going to come in the bluebird houses and we're trying to get bluebirds right so my thought would be you know the Peach Tree Barn could you hold one of its classes and at the class you could build your own you could paint your own birdhouse or build your own birdhouse or however it works and then you would bring it and it would go up in the tree or it would go around the field whatever is permissible is how the bird house is I think it would be better if they took it home that that works okay yeah all right this is a years long project that's been going with the bluebird houses she's been up there and so Kathleen what are what are your thoughts I would think if we move forward it should be native plants or trees okay and the location you think that's really up to what you find okay and then me yes the one started this um I know a lot of people who do haying and if you're having trouble getting people to come and hay putting trees in a field or even not cutting back to your stone walls that loses a whole span of hay for people so if Farmers don't make a lot of money doing almost anything anymore because of of what the costs of everything so anything that impedes their ability to easily mow not have to worry about rocks and things like that but also trees overhanging um scrub things that are delicate trees that we're planting that may be in the way of a cutter blade it wouldn't take anything to take a young sapling down with a hey cutting whe so I would prefer to see I mean this is would be a whole change would be to have maybe something ornamental closer to the what we call the front as you approach with the in that area that's where the small field is off to the side sort of but anyways um I I have a question about actually doing something in a field like this the fields there I know you said that you know there's you have an add um you respect everything but um you want things for the future I think we have to think about something that would attract people to come to the and I think you'd be more attracted to the place if it was an on the approach that's the landscape AR in me so um instead of putting something out in a nature Cent centered area she's nodding her head so I guess we're on the same approach like down the bottom when you're by by the beautiful Granite stone that say well no I mean as you approach the peach bar you know that you know the interesting road with the big holes and all stuff but no talking at the bottom of the hill there's a granite stone with the eagle on the top that says Betty's neck and it points up oh yeah that you know or some something so that it would tempt people to come in not just for programming but for the fact that they will come in be respectful of the property and not do silly damage and stuff like that which I know you've had some problem with I'm constantly so far it's because nobody's there's no nobody living nearby that can call but um I think the idea is great about getting people there and I think the whole concept of doing it and the fact that um just looking at native plants because they're they're going to be more productive and they're going to live better and they're going to need less maintenance and everything and they're going to be better for the Wildlife which how whether it's small or big and um leave the leave the fields alone that's just so well another thought she said because it's a historical building and it's the peach Barn did you ever think of a peach tree could do a peach tree yeah they fly yeah that would be that would make that would be nice yeah made a peach tree not a Georgia one right there got to be northern northern i' have no idea if there's a northern Peach in the but it might grow well lately said I agree leave the fields alone I just want to say that I'm always really if for bringing encouraging people to Cup and enticing them to come and investigate and all that but this I see this so the open space committee a couple of years ago we know we're well aware I took a walk with the fish and wildlife lady with Mike Schroeder a few years back and she was very adamant about the fact that Lakeville hasn't worked very hard to attract people to Betty's neck and that the parking situation the signage situation which CPA funds will pay for um and programming which CPA will not pay for those are our biggest problems I mean I so first of all nobody knows it it's there but Co happened and everybody wared there was an internet and that we have a website our website is not up to date talking about Betty's neck I looked at it the other day if you click on Betty's neck it says this page is under construction that was literally like three days ago so I love the idea of bringing people to Betty's neck I don't love the idea of turning tur it into another Garden that has all sorts of non-native plantings in it but I do love the idea of getting more people in Lakeville to understand what Native species are what Native Wildlife is what historic farming is what the peach Barn did and fundraising and doing programming and all of that but CPA funds will pay for signage which and may even pay for actually fixing the parking situation and the roads because I don't know so that the problem is that's not the structure the one going up though the one going that's deas property they this is deas but this is not oh no the windy one's not well so whatever it takes you know what I mean but if you ever want to go for a walk at Betty's neck and talk about the plants we can serious well the reason that I picked these trees is for your reason which is that to attract people like I said flying overhead you can spot Lakeville but imagine spotting Lakeville because you see a an enormous golden tree surrounded by pink trees you're going to say what is that how do we get there you're going to go like I understand what's being said but I don't I I just don't believe it's the way I think you actually have to develop and do more I will look at native trees I will see if there's something comparable um and I'm I'm hearing your feedback about looking for something that will Thrive a little better and I'd love to go for walk bed but you're going to get really bored really fast cuz I just um I think your heart is in the right place you want to attract people there but it seems like because the hay is so important that the tree idea just doesn't fit especially in the back field and just coming up with something else um I have some ideas like a nature walk like you said teaching the kids but it has to be Capital like though it can't yeah it has to be a capital expense well I think your thing was you just wanted to attract people to B's neck and I think that that's great um but it doesn't seem like the trees is the way to go do you know how much money you make from the hay in that field it it I've been asked that question many times before we the farmer plays a fat a flat fat fee a flat fee and it it's been left lately because the fields are in bad condition that's why we need a management plan because the farmer doesn't want to spend money with fertilizing and getting it back in shape unless he has a like a plan with a 5year plan so we've been working on that that's why we need a farm management plan but the farmer that's there right now I think he's happy and we'd like to keep them there so but is there a number of any sort I never 5,000 20,000 I have no idea how much they make I know that they for years they paid $2,500 to rent the field so they must have been doing all right and I know Hayes more now and um then it didn't get hay for 2 years and so I'm trying to think what we charged I think we charged a farmer, 1500 this year because he's not getting the quality hay that he was getting so that's why we're going to work on a farm management plan for like 5 years and then he knows he has it for 5 years and then and so that's in the works yeah we can we get can we hear from Bobby too I know he has quiet over quiet over here taking so I guess I'm hung up on the proposal type so I look at Betty's neck as open space and projects that would support open space and the way I'm interpreting your argument or proposal is more towards Recreation and I know that on the application they're one and the same but I feel like if we try to bombard what little open space we have with Recreation to draw people there we're detracting from the open space that we sort of well not we sort of we have a responsibility on this committee to bolster yeah so even though it is a combined um category for CPA funds Recreation slop space that has to deal with that same bucket they are totally different because one is recreational and one is more about preserving the Natural State very you know Betty's next priority is open space the state's priority through DCR through fisheries and wildlife and local farmers is to maintain the open space that's currently there with the fields very well intentioned but I think that the the sort of recreational purpose to to draw folks there is going to detract from an existing benefit if that makes sense I think it's entirely Fair um I I I don't want to say counterargument um I I did I did consider that because there are people who love the fields but the way I viewed it is that you've got about 100 acres of field in that really big field and that's about a 10minute walk you know entering no there's not there's not 100 no there's not 100 acres 40 30 okay 44 in the front field excuse me that's a way exaggeration but there's 44 Acres of field and it's a good 5 to 10 minute walk to even get to the back field so my theory was okay you've had 44 Acres of field what would you like to see in this back one I get it it's another field it's another 30 acre field but something that would I I didn't think that it would be that big of a takeaway simply because you've got that enormous open space out front Okay so now at this point we have a checklist in our packet do we want to run down the checklist and see see how um this project lines up do we need more information about this like I'm I'm hesitant because so so just like you can't put a shed on your neighbor's property like Brena can't put trees on Betty's neck without going through the proper Authority so that is my hesitation with the project right so I'm pretty positive that back that it won't be allowable on that back field so yeah I so I have this I don't it's from a long time ago and the APC yeah that's fine um can't have it CU I don't know where we hand them out you should take a look at this I should probably make a copy of it for you I don't want to give so you see the back of it the whole loud uses walking running hiking nature study sight seeing photography artistic work cross country skiing snowshoeing undesignated Trails horseback riding I don't hunting um Shoreline fishing mountain biking non-motorized uh no fires uh just it goes on forever but again to his point and to my original point there are so many areas in Lakeville that are for recreational purposes this is still passive Recreation you know um but a garden you're you're creating a non I'm just I'm going to harp on this you're creating a non-native Garden in the middle of a very native space and I think that's our disconnect I see it as a Grove I don't see it as a garden and I specifically picked trees that would not be harmful but it would need upkeep just like a garden and and CPA funds cannot be used for upkeep so it would create an additional expense that then who has to pay for it you know does it come out of you know does someone from the town have to go there now from DPW to upkeep these trees or does it come out of APC I don't know so I feel like because there should be an entity who has proper sort of jurisdiction I think exactly jurisdiction control you know some okay so what if I talk with vets for veggies um who is a group of veterans who are looking for gardening space in town we got to we got to just we have to get through this talk about for phase two no no so this is up for the committee to determine if you want to go through the checklist and see you know how it fits to to what our criteria is I'm already looking at this and I think I'm saying no for a number of questions okay so do you want to go down the list of them yes okay so all projects must meet the minim the following minimum criteria a does the project have a feasible project plan that demonstrates the best approach and timeline for implementation no no does the project demonstrate administrative and financial management capabilities of the applicant so so there's no ongoing upkeep um availability does the project demonstrate means of support for maintenance and upkeep no does the project show Community Support and a positive impact to the community we're not sure depends on who you ask does the project have support from other relevant Town boards and committees yes it does who I'm sorry who me I'm sorry just continue okay but so like no like open space hasn't reviewed it conservation hasn't reviewed it does the project show support from the abuts that doesn't really apply doesn't apply uh projects that can demonstrate some of the following criteria will be given preference over projects that only meet the Min minimum criteria does the project provide other sources of funding from outside sources no does the project protect lands critical to the protection of our natural resources I.E acquisition of critical Parcels to protect the Region's Water Resources including riparian zones and Weds uh no because it's already protected in that location does the project support open space and recreational planning on a regional basis Regional Regional OB recreational that's supposed to say recreational no open space recreational planning on a regional basis no well not yet no does the project fulfill more than one purpose of the CPA open space Recreation historic preservation community housing no has the applicant successfully implemented other projects of similar scale or other demonstrated the ability and competency to implement this project na does the project ensure preservation of currently owned Town assets yes preservation is a funny word I mean as as long as it doesn't interfere with the the haying because that seems to be an asset is the hanging of the fields didn't you say it wasn't owned by the town anyway no it is sure it is BET's neck yeah yeah I'm sorry Michelle can I ask a quick question on this rather than because I feel like we're gonna have to do this for each one going forward no oh well so I mean I only included one this one is the one that sounds like it meets the criteria so that's why I wanted to go at least through the one um checklist I was just wondering I know we discussed the timeline at the last meeting is there enough time if we were to rather than deny this if we were to table it and say hey come back as not an individual come back with our feedback so we have the next meeting um for December 19th and we did ask for the step two to come back by January 6 so that really doesn't doesn't give enough time if we I was just trying for the sake of time I'd rather you know if we're going to be coming back either way it would make more sense to just table it and come back well so I mean if this project isn't meeting the criteria we can't move forward with a step two so that's why I wanted to go through and see what is everybody's thoughts how does it fit the criteria and if if so make a determination um does the project inare preservation of currently owned Town assets oh I just did that one does the project involve acquisition of threatened resources no does the project have all permits and Board review in place no so criteria to open space does the project protect important wildlife habitat including areas that are of local significance for biodiversity and preserve or preserves a habitat for threatened and endangered species of plant or animal no does the project preserve the remaining elements of Lakeville Rural and agricultural character people have been Landscaping their properties for Generations so it depends on what the style is so I would say yes that it is a form of landscaping that you okay does the project protect both surface and groundwater supplies including drinking water Wetlands aquifer and RI rarin zones yes no maybe no no does the project restore environmental resources including removal of invasive species does the project support development of environmental educational resources that's a possible yes well getting out there and does the project preserve small tracks of undeveloped land that contribute to other open space goals such as smaller Parcels that are located adjacent to protected Open Spaces or that preserve Corridor linkages between larger open space Parcels no does the project preserve or expand priority Parcels as listed in lak ville's open space and Recreation plan no no does the project provide flood control SL storage no applicable okay so those are all of the applicable to open space um should we go through the recreation as well since it's both well let's do the recreation cuz at least yeah um so does the project provide or expand opportunities for both active and passive Recreation yes yes does the project support multiple recreational uses I wouldn't say multiple singular multiple don't know this is hard because it's hard some of these don't apply yeah does the project enable the usage of recreational spaces for all ages and abilities yes I mean the difficulty is Betty's neck really isn't Ada right now but that's not the fault of this project we have an event it is yeah what's that when we have an event it is oh it is yeah I open the gate they can drive in and u beach Barn is accessible oh all right and we're working on putting a ramp from the inside instead of putting a ramp on the outside of the building which I really don't like um we're working on putting a ramp on the inside of the building that goes up into the visitors so that it will be totally accessible okay does the project improve does the project oh wait I missed one does a project maximize use of town on land potentially right yeah long range long range yes it would you know by attracting people does the project improve existing ball fields courts and playgrounds and canoe kayak access if the project is for land acquisition does it provide for new or expanded recreational uses does the project promote water-based recreational activities I.E canoe kayak na so so I have about four yeses Michelle is this available to people other than people on this committee is this on the CPA our H it is because all every every one of these is taken out of our plan so it was literally like I mean in this format is this checklist available so that a person could have an idea so yeah so like not in this one page but our plan is L these are literally word for word taken out and so I actually had to go through because we revised the plan I had to just make sure that our checklist still matched the plan rision so I did have to I put this into a spreadsheet right you know comp to our pdf version right cuz this is useful but so they are all if you go on open space in the plan I mean we could always put in our appendix we could add it yeah yeah idea just so see probably should too that way when we go through the plan I wouldn't have just double check and make sure we didn't change any definitely put it we have to have as a public meeting coming up cuz the next year is come upon us right okay so so I mean I don't feel like it meets the minimum criteria so much is it does have some criteria under open space and Recreation but for me like the maintenance and upkeep that's a big one because you we don't want to put something that now is you know a new expense to upkeep what if we forgo the Back Field just because it's a lot of Maintenance you don't want to mess with the hay a lot of fine print stuff there and just do the one tree like you mentioned by that stone wall a peach tree start with that it's only one to maintain there is none of the original existing peach orchard right n so so that would be fun and like you said it would attract from a historical perspective that would be something that you would want to replace right to figure out what peach trees were growing you just have to find out what year approximately how when the peach orchard was there and you can probably determine what the variety was if it still exists sounds like it spun off into a completely different the middle somewhere okay so if we were to okay this as a step two for Brena to explore the opportunity of placing one peach tree we can skip it we can move to the next application I don't think because if you start looking into peach trees then oh well what if someone goes and eats a peach and dies so there's just always going to be a reason not to do it I'd like to move on okay I mean I think we were trying to look to see what would work in this but no so do you take a vote um well I mean usually we vote to to um yeah to issue the step too but so all right the next one is high school Greenhouse so this one was sent off to the Coalition and the responses I feel like we've been around the block on this project before is that right this is definitely not an eligible project there are at least three reasons why that is the case first structures such as green houses are not allowed to be built with CPA funds according to the definition of land for recreational use in section two of CPA secondly this is clearly a School Educational expense and those things must come out of the school budget the only possible thing CPA can pay for on school property is for outdoor non-structural fields that are used to a large degree by the community outside of school hours lastly CPA can never pay for equipment or supplies so seeds gloves pots are not eligible CPA is for Capital Improvements only and it cannot be used for supplies and consumables so I don't understand where he's coming from with that I called this to CPA first of all to the Coalition I called the Coalition okay so the community preservation Coalition on the website says CPA allowable use determinations are made locally that means you guys you guys have more power than the Coalition the Coalition gives advice they do not tell you what to do I called the Coalition and I asked specifically about this project I recorded the phone call they said the individual that I spoke with and I'm not trying to hang this person out to dry I made it clear I wasn't going to do that I just wanted to get an idea of where Stewart was coming from last year with the geodic Dome I understood because that is a structure that would have been built and would have been maintained as a structure the person who I spoke with explained to me that it's hesitant to do large scale projects using CPA funds on school property because if something happens and the school needs to be renovated or the field suddenly needs to become a parking lot you have then wasted the money by putting something up but CPA funds can also be used for playgrounds so that's why the the Restriction is required for recreational so that can't be just torn down corre these green houses are movable sheds they are smaller than sheds that CPA have been have approved in other places and I know we're not supposed to make references to that but there is no classification where a 12x 10 or 12x 15 you know Greenhouse would be considered a large structure additionally I spoke with Lacy NH HR um who is working with vets for veggies and it lists on the website an allowable use of an indoor structure that supports an outdoor recreation um although a bathroom facility is technically a structure do has stated to the extent that any such structures that are reasonably necessary to directly support the use of the outdoor Recreational facility they would be allowable that's a bathroom equipment storage sheds are also another such example my thoughts with these the students at the high school recently did a presentation where they wanted to beautify the courtyard and the and the courtyard and they actually emailed and asked me if it would be possible to amend my application to put one of the sheds inside of the courtyard that would make it mobile it would be mobile either way but it would it could be Mobile in the summer when the kids are not using it to either go to the vets for veggie field or um you know have pre-approved Cory check people go and you know maintain the school in the off seon and I think that that's something they would be open to I don't like the idea that these sheds Are Being Framed as stadiums or indoor structures because they're not they're mobile and they're smaller than normal sheds additionally it would have a community aspect through um gardeners from the senior center vets for veggies and the students who would of course be benefiting from it both the one that's by the science wing and life skills class and then also the one in the courtyard where the kids who are working in the courtyard the green teams could start their seedlings and then move them out into the courtyard I don't I just I don't agree with his assessment and I I did my homework to try to get around it but I mean it you brought this basically the same thing last you know cycle around and and it was the same they're different these are mobile sheds the do still indoor and indoor Recreation is not covered so that's the problem because you're looking that you'd be inside of and it's not permissible to use CPA funds for so but these structures support outdoor recreation which CPA funds can be support right but it only G you know it gives the the example of a shed to support a bigger project or a bathroom as part of I I understand that but it also supports what I'm talking about although indoors a bathroom is sorry hold on who would maintain these over the years who would be responsible for them um I imagine the teach whichever teacher is in charge of the gardening club or the organ because there's four or five groups um that are involved in the courtyard beautification project so either the life skills teacher um or the green team teacher they would be in charge of maintaining it and if at any point they decided they didn't want that responsibility these sheds could be moved and repurposed to go towards that'ss for veggies who are also looking for gardening space in town but didn't Stuart say that it has to be a permanent same thing with the soccer nets that they can't be movable it's not a capital it's not attached to a capital I think right yeah and and then plus it's it's even though it's Lakeville Town land it's School District too so right so it's not accessible to the community so the community can't just go in and use it not during the school year but in the summer months you could either repurpose them to another gardening group or you could have because every every Club has some sort of entrance so if the entrance was you need to get a quy check and you have to be able to go on school land it there's really no difference between pre-approving that and pre-approving someone to be in any other sort of group I mean to me is this under Recreation doesn't apply yeah this falls into Recreation right can I make one odd comment which doesn't have to do anything to do with this the very first thing that Stuart individ individuals should generally not submit applications as you can't cut a check of public money to an individual okay first you need more people to get behind whatever like this one right there that would help because because you're from the beginning because they're all submitted by an individual it's a no so you're not even getting past the first question see what I mean but then I think this is great but it also are Community Gardens can you do Community Gardens with CPA F community garden so that looks like where we're trying to get to here somehow but not the greenhouse because it's considered indoor Recreation have a community garden this is a supporting structure for that community garden correct so the application is really should be for a community garden so you need to find some land and then you can get your green houses for the community garden that the kids can be working I don't want to say yes because well but I mean it's like the Cs before the horse so she brought an application for a greenhouse for the schools right yeah last application and it wasn't aable one it was like she said a dome um and that didn't qualify so steuart's saying right at the beginning you can't structures such as green houses are not allowed to be built with CPA funds I know right off the bat but I thought you just said a couple minutes ago that if it was something he's comparing them to stadiums no he's not if there was a greenhouse on the site that's part that's just part of the definition but it's still a structure if if there was a greenhouse on the site if it was slightly historical right then then you could get so if it was a pre-existing Greenhouse with some kind of History it could be historic preservation right yeah well because so you know how we have the little chart and there's certain things that do qualify under certain categories but for open space and Recreation it's supposed to be outdoor for historic yes we can do uh comps to historical um structures but not you couldn't create it right exactly but you can cannot create anything they both hinge on that same section two of the CPA that he's talking about so section two is strictly just definitions I would assume he's referring to the Capital Improvements definition so if there's already a historic Greenhouse there we vote to um fund the improvements of it then then we are actually um materially adding to the value of that historic property whereas if we funded lower level greenhouses on a school district property we're really not contributing largely to the value of that property so I think he's using that same definition to you know as Stuart sort of hanging his hat on shooting this project down with that definition I think it would certainly bolster if we had a he do he doesn't make the determination he tells us whether not it applies C funding we pay him for his expert opinion right we should probably we we do pay take it into consideration yeah yeah we do yeah because they that is who helped us get it past that's who gives guidance to all of the communities um they know this stuff inside and out you know I also helped you get it passed there was yes there was a number of people that work but we can't approve projects that aren't eligible because it falls back on us you guys make the determination we don't yes you do so if we submit this CPA allowable use determinations are made locally therefore groups applying for CPA okay my point is that you guys have more power than you think you do these are good projects we're not saying they're not Runner but if we go forward with this you are throwing them out on technicalities that don't apply they most certainly do apply they do not it is not a large structure excuse me there's a lot of work that goes into these projects and they would be good and you are arbitrarily saying no for structure Reas that do not apply as right here I'm going to give you this I'm going to go to the bathroom and take a moment okay this is the second time no one wants those green houses I mean if it doesn't qualify I think there's a Mis misunderstanding about said this there's a total miscommunication with this town that people don't understand what the CPA funds are supposed to be used for exactly and it's not it's not that we're saying that this project isn't valid we would love to support the kids and do this but if it's not eligible it's not eligible end of story for these particular funds so I I worked at a place that helped people with CPA but I didn't do it personally I was just secretarial but it is very complicated what does and doesn't fit in CPA funds right and Kathleen when you submit the projects to the do if they look at it and say that wasn't eligible then the person that it was that took care of it they have to pay that money back correct I no yeah you you want so we were just um so Kathleen at the end of the year when the projects are approved at town meeting at the end of the year we have to submit these forms to do Kathleen has been tasked with doing that um these past couple years and she's been working so she has to submit a full application to the state and say what it is and if if it's not a project that's applicable then the money has to get paid back so that's why it's very important to make sure that these projects actually qualify we this this board just reviews as to whether it conforms to what our goals are and then to town meeting but if it doesn't first hit the mark of qualifying that that's the problem it's not hitting the mark to qualify to get to the point of does it fit the goals of this plan so that that's the problem it's not that these aren't good projects it's and I understand youve put time and energy into it unfortunately the greenhouse I I think you should have known because we did go over this last last time around and it's still the same thing just with a it's it's some some minor changes and that's disagree but you know we went through all of the issues with the upkeep and the fact that it's the district and the whole Community has you know is not able to benefit from it because it's on school property and that like you said with the Cory checks it does create these other issues so Michelle yes through you when you called CPA are you feeling like you got a different answer I 100% got a different answer we can move on me you got a different answer 100% I recorded it so is the next one good just yes or no I don't want to go through it so the so I thought I sent you the email with it so the next one isn't good either well so it it says that um okay so for the lawn game sheds see the comments above on Betty's neck and investigate the status of the land the land must be permanently dedicated to recreation in addition long games again are supplied and CPA cannot pay for supplies a shed for storage of games doesn't sound like a capital Improvement to land for recreational use it sounds like a programming expense I don't know who this guy is he doesn't have an idea what he's talking about you're telling me that on Ted Williams Park which has picnic tables a large field and a playground next to it a shed filled with games wouldn't be an improvement so I I wasn't finished there is more to it Point 2 of bullet one of definition of capital Improvement it fits under that you can also 3.3 I think it was number two of3 it fits under two of those Capital Improvement definitions so it's the games don't if I can just finish reading the um explanation from the Coalition it sounds like a programming expense for a camp that isn't allowed for CPA that's not what it is uh the camp was if the C Camp was dedicated recreational land they needed a new softball field constructed from scratch that is the type of CPA Capital expense that the ACT can fund it appears that there might be a disconnect on the proper purpose of CPA as some of these small recreational projects all follow a general theme in general CPA Rec recreational projects must meet the definition of a capital Improvement and these are usually large expenditures when you see small appliances for related supplies and programming expenses you know it's probably not a capital expense here's the definitions you must meet and remember that structures aren't allowed Capital Improvement reconstruction or alteration of real property that one material materially adds to the value of the real property or appreciably prolongs the useful life of the real property it two becomes part of the real property or is permanently affixed to the real property so that removal would cause material damage to the property or article itself and three is intended to become a permanent installation or is intended to remain there for an indefinite period of time it fits in the recreational category structures are not allowed recreational use active or passive recreational use including but not limited to the use of land for Community Gardens trails and non-commercial Youth and adult sports and the use of land as a park playground or Athletic Field recreational use shall not include horse or dog racing or the use of land for stadium gymnasium or similar structure so that is what he's going to is the similar structure it's not it's not it's not allowed for the structures okay but I don't know why we passed CPA I don't know why you're here so can you SL first good have a good you can keep that okay whatever okay I mean it's um I'm sorry that she feels like that I think we need to be clear on individuals not I you know it says very loud and clear this has to be something that the community wants that there's people in the community there's a groups in the of community members who are wanting to do and this was big you know one person I could come up with anything I want youd have and you'd get you know you'd get pecked to death because you have spent all of your CPA Monday on little Improvement plans that individuals wanted to do and Stu something truly valuable to your entire Community which is what CPA was passed for was because people's communities were getting gutted with their historical things and their Open Spaces were getting together now I don't know how the affordable housing board got slept on there but maybe because older people were getting moved out of their towns well no I mean they because they had to add something in that in that sort of Realm if if if you're going to get open space and Recreation and historic you got to do this too I think it was I don't know that it was though I think it might actually have something to do with the people in a town that was getting overdeveloped the people who had lived there for a long time got moved out CPA is community preservation right well senator rods actually worked on passing CPA and if you talk to him he can give you some of that background and history on yeah on the on why that housing piece was included too but so I do think we have to address our plan and maybe make it more specific that it should shouldn't be from an individual and and it should be on behalf of a committee committee board board or or or an entity at least that has the um authority authority exactly so like Parks if if something wants to go in um Ted Williams Camp Parks should be involved in that project right if you wanted those sheds Parks should have submitted that app but but once again Recreation indoor recreational doesn't qualify so it can't be indoor Recreation it could have been the re so with the John Pon Park uh uh was a pre-existing no so the for the um design plans so the design plan so that was eligible and if if they move on to another phase where they're looking to build and it's part of the support like the bathrooms would it be support to the fields that's where it applies but not when you're building just an indoor Recreation right it seems to me that these are all important things that people need to I think that we need in the community and there must be another way of funding them either through um a charitable organization that gives grants for small projects like this I think last year there were recommendations made specifically of where to apply for like Park grants and stuff well we still don't have the open space plan yet right no we're getting closer because once that yeah that approv that will open the doors for parks for all Grant because it's open space and recreational plan and once you have that plan in place then it applies to Recreation and open space and obviously you know if Parks is looking for more funding I think I think it's like 750,000 for one and then 450,000 in another like Park and land or something like that or two of the grants that are attached to that um I didn't know that I didn't at least that that's when I was reaching out to different entities trying to find money like what's available I got you I have to say one positive thing that came out of this for me is like I'm looking at some of this stuff and think I fit under here for everything that I need to get my farm management plan yeah there you go probably well so as long as it applies I mean I just I hate I hate that which I mean if it doesn't apply it doesn't apply but if it applies then it applies well that the rationale is there about you know getting it up and running it sits up there we need some educational programs up there that's going to bring people in we need to get the road fixed but I mean I think I'm G to probably have to do that for the um farm management plan I think I think if if there was better access to B Betty's neck you know that'd be huge so there are other ways to get there without even the money because we already get the money from the the fields and they already made that's a ongoing maintenance and if I can get a 5year plan right that's ongoing maintenance right we're getting M we get money too so I mean like said you don't want to nickel and dime it to death and then have nothing when something huge comes along that is that is the ultimate responsibility of this committee is to actually review these projects does it fit with the plan because we know that the plan is made up from contributions from conservation open space uh Parks historical you know it has a a collaboration in that plan and that's why we we get the input every year and we have to keep revising it and now maybe make that application process more clear so an individual doesn't think I can apply on behalf of some other entity I think that needs to be made clear and maybe maybe we we put something in there so that instead of having a greenhouse two times in a row we say you know if it doesn't qualify no repeat petitions for for a project that was deemed not to qualify something like that so that it it's right up front to see have a public hearing we have to have a public hearing next year maybe we should make it more educational outwards you might get more applications too that fit like almost a little training kind of thing you also have to make sure like startup supplies right that's not supplies are supplies yeah that was it's important to the project but it's not something you get PPC money for it it's got to be capital capital capital people have to understand and even though like the townhouse doors they weren't a big money item but they're part of a building so that makes it applicable expense so I think and a big part I think the CP is that there's a the almost the entire Community will benefit from whatever the money was spent on exactly basically because it's their taxpayer money right we we got that's why we have to be so careful because this is somebody's paying extra tax money to yeah to this fund and we are the guardians of those funds to make sure that which is also the reason why IND prob should be trying to apply because then it all comes down to you let that one person spend our money we can't even we can't even write a check out to someone without a1099 right even the Housing Authority even if we had a Housing Authority I don't think we can give them a chunk of money you don't know how hard it is to get money out of this town you have to go three ways around to you is there a way just thinking ahead for next time right since this is second time around with greenhous similar like can we as a committee come up with a policy that would have automatically disqualified these so so when she just when we were talking about we have to hold a public hearing so every year this committee must hold a public hearing to gather input okay and we have to make revisions to the plan I think you guys I don't know if you attended any meetings I did but even this I'm just caught up on like none of hers even had assessors tax cards and maps that it says on the application are required like if it were up to me I would have just rejected them based off of coming from an individual and being incomplete and then we wouldn't have dwelled on this for an hour that's all I'm getting that is if there's a way in the future that it could still be you know an hour ear I think I don't know I I think do say is you have your checklist here the first things should have been the basic application first section doesn't pass the first section we don't go further and I think we had some NOS in that first section of minimum criteria I didn't have any so you know I is that checklist available when they take out the applications it's not but I this should be something that they look at and consider whether or not they meet the criteria I can tell you from experience when I was doing something for the pro commission I did the Nets I read over and over and over again that packet and it was a lot of lawyers speak so I was like you know what I'll try if it doesn't work it doesn't work and I'm sure everyone else is having that same thing it's the wording is so vague that you really don't know what qualifies and what doesn't well I interpreted I think if you look at this right here this is very simple this is the simple part without the lot of words yeah for instance if you can you acquire everybody can acquire something can you create everyone can create something but not the historical part you can't recreate you can't create a new history thing can everybody preserve yes can you support the only people that have the support are the housing everything else is no and if you want to know more about this information and you had this first a through F on that app with that application do you meet these requirements they they it's a responsibility for them to know that and they don't put in the time M imagine if we went to one applic where they had done all that work right how upset they would be if we said no so if they have it with phase one then they can see whether or not if it doesn't make sense they could call one of us we could explain it and so when I sent out the the email with all the information one of the things I did was I linked the plan you know and I made sure that when the town shared it the so it it asked you know please review the P the plan you know to see if your project is applicable so of these items on that checklist yes maybe we should discuss incorporating that checklist in somewhere else but if you do look through the plan you see the checklist maybe what we're also looking at is to add definitions because if you're saying it's hard to understand maybe we need to define capital maybe you know Capital maybe we have to include some definitions simp perh have a thing that says we do not fund the following items supplies yeah right you know the the things that are not Capital so that they would so they'd say oh shoot I wanted to because I feel bad because I don't want someone to feel like it's this committee's not interest it's just that it has to qualify because it is very there like like you said when you went to the B speciic she's disagreeing with that statement right there she's saying we have the authority to be able to make a decision that differs from the we do but we also take the responsibility if it's the wrong decision exact right that was a big difference here and I think we're all feeling like we're not going against what the Coalition recommends well they're the ones that have been in the trenches working with people since the beginning so I mean they know everything that people said shouldn't have done that that doesn't qualify pay back the money mean I would be awful yeah would be has it happened has it happened oh yes I would think also with the yes they've run into issues with in other towns where they actually expended funds and then it came along that they had we're not you for that had to pay it back when we looked at the huge list of all the projects if you go back to the towns and look at all the projects that have been funded there have been green houses on there but they might have been supporting community garden another project because there were that came up last year also because they have but built with CPA money but they were built they were they were already on farmland and this was just to restore what was already there was more than one so I don't know I'd have to go back and look again I just feel there were and that came up last year well so just so I'm I'm just kind of keeping my own little list of plan revision so feel free to do it yourself take some notes plan revisions when it comes time to review the plan we'll look at that but let's move on to the next um agenda genda item and and keep moving forward so number two is review and possible vote regarding unspent funds and sending email to town accountant to move amounts back to CPA fund so um a letter lave she handed out this letter that is from the historical commission that says Dear Community preservation committee at the October 16 2024 meeting the Lakeville historical commission requested that the secretary notify the community preservation Committee of the fact that we did not need to use the community preservation Grant the grant was approved at town meeting for possible additional expenses above and beyond the town of Lakeville contribution and the Massachusetts historical commission grant for the 1856 historic townhouse roof we thank you for your approval of the Grant and the Lakeville citizen for their support and understanding the fact that we had the Grant in case something unexpected occurred made dealing with the project that much easier sincerely Brian Reynolds chairman so we do have this uh Memo from historical Commission I can send that email to Todd and let him know that we have received this and to put that money back into the fund 30,000 yes nice so it's nice one of the few times we've come under bid for a loot of so the other item is the townhouse doors oh wait a minute what I we do you want to that um vote vote it sure yep you want to do the vote so I think a motion that we forward the letter from Brian Reynolds to the town accountant to restore $30,000 from the townhouse roof project that we approved and wasn't used can I just amend that sure isn't um 22,100 coming from going back to Historic and then 7,700 going back right say it again Kathleen 22 okay the 22 106.6 2 goes back to Historic okay so we have a motion and the other amount 22 10662 to Historic and the other is 7,784 94 no wait is that it I don't know 94 yeah that sounds about right goes back to the general fund yeah wait a minute let's add them up make sure make sure 1,000 uh oh no I got 29 8 91 56 me too 56 me too it's okay so you know like we have I have the spreadsheet you can't see cuz I did like little formulas in the blocks but I I can just review it and make sure we have and Todd knows Todd has the figures of what has to go back okay so um so amend the motion to say the portion that came out of historic will go back and the portion that came out of the general fund fund will back I second that okay we have a motion in a second all in favor okay motion passes and the second one was for the townhouse doors project um I did speak to Paul he said that there was a balance there was some that was coming out of CPA still but he wasn't sure of that amount he was going to email um Todd and once he gets that so I'll I didn't get that back from him but once once I do we can add that to the agenda and okay get that one done too so we're just doing the one so we'll just do this one for now because I I haven't gotten that amount yet so you carry that onto the next agenda yes okay um agenda item number three review andoss vote on posting running total spreadsheet to web page so this is the spreadsheet that we had discussed I sent it off to Todd he made some revisions um and then I did see that when he sent Nancy the monthly uh budget he also added in those additional little figures so that's that's great that he's able to work with us um do we want to post this to the website or is it too changing that we post like should we post it once a year I'd say once a year I say to changing how confusing can you get confusing to even us um so we'll date it I guess with the current date and then post it so maybe in September is cuz Kathleen that's when we submit the um yeah we do September the forms you're right so do we want to maybe I I mean I'll post I can post what we have now okay with the most uh recent um version from Todd and then yearly in September we can update it and then repost it of 2025 yes okay that makes sense but Nancy will know what how much is in actually as Treasurer she'll know where that money will come back the regular print outs so yeah so what he was able to do when he sent her over the monthly he included this he updated it so now that he has a spreadsheet it's easy enough for him to plug in the numbers too so so we'll get it all the time and we can look at it but we just won't post it online once a year Well anybody listening to this taping would understand how much money was in there when you give your report or something right they can also request it during that even though it's not posted online it's still public record and it gives people an idea of still what's buckets for each so so do we want to take a vote to um place it on the web page once a year in September once a year in September so moved all right we have a motion second and the second all in favor I I motion carries we have a set of minutes for October 17 2024 on the packet has everyone had a chance to review the minutes any edits questions comments motion to approve all right we have a motion second and a second all in favor I and the minutes are approved um we have old business uh status updates on approved projects from Project liaison does anyone have any updates that they want to share go ahead um do on the um Museum Lakeville Historical Museum I spoke with Joan whon and we uh the work has started slowly but we're going to be put up putting up the sign the CPA sign by Monday oh good on the land so that'll be good excellent that's good news and there'll be pictures okay and um well the report on the face the second Cemetery thing is not really a report because it has only gone to phase gone through phase one to phase two that's all okay yeah and I sent out that step two application to John yeah that's John the cemetery commission so what do you have an update I called Melissa she was out of town she told me to call Mike Smith so I did not get in touch with him I was hoping you would know something but you don't so we'll put it just put it back on again okay for uh December and I'll definitely get a hold of of Mike okay okay um the next item is the photos of completed projects I know we discussed possibly getting some of those up on the website any Jo has pictures she does yes she said she would get them okay so once before and after okay so when she has them of the table stones and the repairs to the um individual stones and the flip stones and I'll just say what she said the the gentleman who did the work who would be doing the work on the if the second Grant is approved at town meeting has decided that most sensible thing would be to work in a cluster around those two tabl stones and do the repair he suggesting that the repair work center around that area so the all so an area will be done and then they could move to another area another time so but so she has Tex so um is she able to email them to and that way cuz I do need electronic version in order to um post it and and is that what we want to do so I guess the first thing is get the pictures we'll circulate them and determine do we want it on the website do we want to add it to the plan what do we want to do with the pictures we get and I mean I know the town doors are up take a picture of the do a picture of those as well yeah yeah yeah yeah why not should I what your tax dollars are paying for so I can ask Paul Paul who the doors can we go back to the L young Z thing for a second I'm love oh we have this was our last final talk about it um are the ideas for what we would like in the plan so that was the most recent okay so you're talking about it but nothing really has been done yet no but that's we all met to um what ideas do we what do we want to see in the engineering plan so those are the ideas that's where we're at with it sorry mil things going on so you are reviewing the specifics that you're looking for in the engineering exactly exactly like what do we want to put in the plan so now she's going to bring that to the engineer right because it it changed because you can't put bathrooms cuz there's no water so that must have changed and I think they're still looking for a shed it's just not poble water they have water oh they do yeah oh it's I thought that was the issue though yeah it's just not quable right you're use it for the toilets so they can still do the bathrooms oh okay you just got to do signage that says you see that all the way in state parks all the time can I have this and cop it you want it back my mistake cuz you're saying John Pond Park this is for Clear Pond Park so so engineering plan was for John so that's we don't have okay stick with the person okay no update on that all right they're getting the water so our next meeting will be December 19th can I ask something yes um when we were briefly talking about how things that maybe we should add to the plan one other thing and you made a comment how about examples from other towns that edify each type of you know this town did this and used CPA funds for this project that's about open space this or even a link if you do a link whatever it is show every single town and the project give solid examples because it makes it it defines it right I think when we talk about definition and yeah maybe includ example that would help too because of course yeah if you're going to define capital example X Y and Z yeah and along that not also do the ones that were denied or they had to pay back well so that you get both sides yeah I think even a link to the actual Community preservation act on our website would be helpful like as he's referring to the definitions to us there's there's literally not a link to it on the CPA there's not a we don't like to the I think it's in the plan I think we just direct them to go to the Coalition I think it's at the very end of the plan right but the Coalition is interpretive at the end of the day right we enjoy their interpretation but it's not the law so I think we should also give people the option like hey you go leg speak that's what we're saying they're an advisory position but they have they've seen a lot that happened before we became CPC hon there's only two members there's only two people that you can talk to when you call and it's either this person or the person who assists him you know what I mean so I'm very surprised that there would ever be a different answer if the same question was asked but yes so the Coalition we did when campaigning we referenced that website on the Flyers and I think it it is referenc in the plan I don't know if our town website should I don't see why not L one out I mean it's just a click it's just a as long as there's no conflict from doing that right do you see why well that's how you get to the link of what the project if you go on a coalition website you can go on and look what projects are the towns this whole list of every town and what projects people about they you know they you know there's so many things on that website too like I mean you go to that drop down and there's a drop down and there's more and more more um but yeah so if everybody's on board I can add the link to the the town web page under maybe the leftand side helpful information do they have the ones that they approved and then had to have paid back so that so you have you have to do a search you have to look through the projects and they're they're by town you can search by the project type um so I think you'd have to do some searching I don't think it's just there a d these projects had to be paid back right and I I have to look back I remember getting some emails from middle and I was asking them questions and she had referenced a few of those as well that had paid back you have to be careful had to pay back not middle bro but other Town it had to pay back she just referenced who had to pay back and you have to be careful what you do approve because she she mentioned something about I'll have to go find this email something about someone could put like 10 people could put a petition together on a project it it's crazy like a petition saying that the town or the CPA did it wrong and should never approved it yeah it oh so they fact checked and saw that what you did was not appropriate spending their taxpayer money on whatever this project was correct I'll have to go find that email it was very helpful though all right so but you want me to add the Coalition um web page as a link to CPC page I can do that all right anything else next meeting is the December 19th at 6:30 okay motion to adjourn second motion and the second all in favor