##VIDEO ID:3CmSE-yv-uk## so good evening everyone and welcome to the January 14th meeting of the Lakeville Conservation Commission I'm going to call a meeting to order and before we even introduce ourselves the first thing I want to do tonight is introduce our new conservation agent in Mark Minton and welcome thank you you're welcome nice to be here and now we'll introduce El John LeBlanc Michelle bushard Nancy AES Joseph Chamberlain Bob bushard all righty let's get to it three Monas recording oh I'm sorry we are being recorded by Lake Cam and I need to ask if anyone else is recording tonight seeing none thank you you're welcome thank you I get excited we have an a um okay so three Mona street I'm going to read the public notice according to the provisions of Mass general laws chapter 131 section 40 on the Wetland of the wetlands protection act there will be a hearing on the notice of intent submitted by Gary Jefferson Trustee of Katherine WS Jefferson 2009 revocable trust for an after Thea filing for the construction of a seaw wall and Pier with boat lift within the Inland resource area area the location of the project is three Mona street map 39 block one lot two the public hearing will be held on Tuesday January 14th at 6:30 p.m. at the Lakeville police station 323 Bedford Street Lakeville Jamie do you have uh notices I do I'm actually I'm I'm checking the legal ad to see if it was posted for 7 or 6:30 I'm hoping we can table it and put me but isn't that a copy of the legal ad that I just read I don't know if it is then I think we're good look and it says 6:30 6:30 beautiful let's do this for Madam chair if I may yeah for anybody who's not aware this is the first meeting at the new time change previously we' been meeting at 700 p.m. um but a lot of our meeting me have started to get longer as we've had more complex uh meetings and more development going on so uh as a result this year we started to meet earlier at 6:30 thus the reason for that if that helps yes thank you um Joe I mean Jamie yes I have the um there's no number did you get a number this came out with all the stuff on it but no number I've got a file number um and I printed it up along with the natural heritage letter did you get that oh hold on cuz if not I printed that up as well this a f on oh okay this a what a d file number right on the letter on the attorney's letter yeah no on the fisheries and wildlife letter oh okay sorry all right so it's SE 192 933 that's yep I just don't usually they send this because they're issuing a file number I I got one okay she might have gone online and looked this up before they did but did you see the comments on here I did okay so we again this is I'm sorry Jamie Binet Zena Consulting Engineers for the record here for three Mona Street and um this is a an after Thea filing um this the work was done in 2016 and I believe they filed an RDA the commission looked at it and said you really need to file a notice of intent this was before I was involved I think even that might have been after the fact wasn't it oh definitely was yeah I think they were looking to get chapter 91 approval on on the wall or the their boat Pier their uh their float um anyways we're here tonight to start the process um towards getting this thing uh completed corrected um so that we can move on forward to the chapter 91 licensing part of this obviously um order of conditions is the first step uh in the process to being able to file Chapter 91 at waterl um so in 2016 I I looked at photos we did a a existing adition survey of what's there now um basically they poured an area of about 159 ft of concrete uh roughly 3 ft th I watched a video of it being done um it was on Sandy Beach area it was not in the water um granted the pond fluctuates elevation as everybody here knows um at the time from the video that I watched it was not in the water they had forms um it looks really nice and honestly it looks like it's solid concrete from the appearance of the video so it looks like they poured 474 cubic feet or so of concrete it's solid uh um that being said it's obviously in a buffer zone it's right up against uh land underwater um and it's also in flood zone is it in the water there's times where the water comes right up and hits it elevation wise the base of the walls see want a frozen lake does the concrete it over time itat right out of the way y this is this so this is a big piece that's up against a steep embankment I don't know if it's going to get pushed out of the way but but like any concrete or stone with time it's going to get chiseled down um and will require maintenance in the future so that being said um we did file with natural heritage as required natural heritage came back and said that it's not it won't adversely affect it's not a take um which makes sense since the work was done in 2016 it's already done but that being said um essentially along the entire um perimeter the entire Waterfront portion of the property is concrete um so to discuss compensatory storage is difficult here because the only way to get it back would be to remove that se we did some calculations um at the office to try to figure out you know comparison as to what it is 474 cubic feet um actually you know based on the pond if we're looking at pond elevation would change the elevation of the pond by .73 in so it's like one 600th of a page a piece of paper it's it's almost unmeasurable but it there there is a number there um the other component of this application is the pier um obviously it's in uh I think there's still a tremendous amount of peers and docks um on the pond that don't necessarily have proper licensing um this is one of them and uh we're looking to get that rectified as well as part of this application so uh while it's an after the fact there's also that additional bit in the application so um with the structure has been in for almost seven years I don't know it almost seems like it would be worse for the environment to bring equipment down to Jackhammer it out to regain the flood storage um the site is stable stabilized when you go down and look at it it looks good I don't know if if you guys have had a chance to get down there and look at it but it's solid it doesn't look like there's any erosion doesn't look like there's an issue that I can see um but again it was done with o of permit um the applicant had read I spoke with the applicant and I and and I always ask why why why did you do this you know and the applicant they're they're actually very very intelligent people they they said that when they Googled seaw walls in Massachusetts they found chapter 91 where it said you have the right to maintain and do repairs to your Waterway structures they were looking at chapter 91 licensing stuff they were not looking at the Wetland protection act did they have a chapter 91 license they didn't know and so no they don't I looked and researched and they do not well that I can find yeah um so when I explained to him that there was a difference between waterways Wetlands protection act and how they don't always necessarily communicate and the regulations don't get looked at by the same people they were kind of surprised by it but they understand now so they understand that we've got to find a way forward and we're here tonight for that so it is the same owner still that did the work absolutely yep yep they do not deny that they did the work they did they know that what they did was wrong at this point um and so how are you addressing the compensatory Storage storage as um pointed out by yeah D yeah Nancy the only way to really do it that I can there's two ways one is taking out that concrete area okay which seems like it might be more detrimental to the environment than leaving it the other one is if we can try to try to regroup and find another place you know on the pond that we can we can find some compensatory storage to you know to grab what's the size of the lot um it's it's not that big I want to say it's around 13,000 ft I think I saw that somewhere it's 50 by called 140 so no so that would be less than that would be like 8,000 9,000 scri feet oh all right yep it's a small lot it's long and thin there's a lot of topographic change if you park up in the street um it drops probably 30 ft down to the water so explain to me if compensatory storage can be Elsewhere on the lot well the only thing that I can see and I'm not sure that it's a good solution is there's there's pave driveway no well no CU that's way too high okay um so compensatory storage isn't pervious compensatory storage is the flood volume at the same elevations or similar at every like what's her name said from natural heritage at every level it'd be down at the pond level and that's why I'm saying the so because the concrete is there and it's it's completely solid there's a there's a small Gap that I and I I'll have to investigate it further on site there's a small Gap in between the neighbors's wall that comes on to this piece and our existing wall where they they filled in this area right here there may be some opportunity in here for some compensatory storage but I don't like the idea of digging behind seaw walls or walls in general I think it undermines and I think it could be a problem so again I don't like any solution necessarily for this on this site to take care of it that's why I might consider talking to the Jasperson about an off-site mitigation situation see if we can find someplace so I'm not looking to close it out tonight um I was kind of hoping to get some direction from the commission see see what they would like for me to do as far as moving forward and then I'll regroup with the with the applicants and try to figure out a way to address that I would like to go out and look at it with you sure be happy to I mean I think taking a look at it um is the the best way to yeah I think it's the best way for us to get a real good feel at what the situation makes sense yeah I'd be happy to meet both of you down there if that's all right and I mean this isn't imminent work right we're not going to get started on this no I mean this is seven years in the teen weather yeah so this has been here for seven years they again the and it's going to take six months from the day we're done to get chapter 91 licensed so yeah this is not we don't need it tomorrow and we don't want to make it worse no no no one wants to make it worse but it is a very huge bu of concrete for a lack of a better word it's a very thick big piece of concrete we had Mark we had pictures let me know when you're going to go out the first time around was Mark will will send an email out to invite everybody any body that wants to go you said you guys set a date and the rest of us if we can go we'll go I'm available middle of June be nice then will my cies in the water have you walked this site before yes at the very beginning anything Stand Out big block concrete looking at the concrete was a surprise let me tell you that that they would choose that to just pour right in there that's all they did yeah well then we we also had the pictures of when they like formed it off formed it off yeah yep yeah I bet you you got those from the from the applicant yeah they're very upfront about about it they're not trying to hide anything I I I appreciate that all right so we will continue and give everyone an opportunity to do a side visit okay was there was there a letter from an AB butter that was sent there yes I have not seen have not seen it if I can get a Cofe at some point that would be great if I could this is is it in another pile uh it was emailed to us um I just printed out a copy from the email yeah I did too I do have cop okay I'd like the copy please you're not talking about the lawyer's letter yes oh yeah yeah she's the I'm not sure you talking about you talking about the same letter so now you have your copy I do thank you yeah that was just forwarded over to us today oh that's why I don't have I gave you a hard copy yeah that's fine thank you so I had one question yes comment um I I I read your letter yes uh and there was reference to uh stairs yes um and then I saw I it's probably in this letter um from the abutters um lawyer sorry um are are do you know are those railroad ties that's what I I I saw some reference identifi as railroad ties well I think there's two separate issues right this the railroad ties and then they want to add a ladder well so yeah we we the ladder is separate from any stairs the stairs are have been in place they go down towards the water they cross over the property line um the stairs are a chapter 91 requirement it's not a want it's it's a must so if you're going to if we're going to leave anything that can obstruct passage along the shore then you need you have to have y so people can fish and Hunt water you know hunt and whatever else that they want to do to enjoy that public area so you can do stairs you can do ladders um and in this case since the Wall's in place and we're trying to minimize it we would probably look at anchoring some kind of a a ladder to be able to get up and down so so my question was like railroad ties are can be you know they're Creo yeah we wouldn't be looking to put any like that in the water no this yeah I just I just saw that jumped out so I just wanted toise yeah we we were thinking along the lines of maybe aluminum an aluminum ladder or maybe um maybe aluminum or concrete steps thanks thank you okay yes please do you want to check with the audience first oh if I can please sorry these are all the yeah they're all live so it's all fine then yeah thank you Jamie and would it be easier for it to pick me up without the mask on that would be nice okay you're far enough away from everyone um so good evening my name is Rachel Watsky from Watsky law um I'm here on behalf of the abutter um to the north uh freem monist Street um I submitted a letter this afternoon uh just having reviewed the noce of intent um it's our perspective that it is missing that compensatory storage which I do understand that it's a comp complicated site it's fairly Steep and it's a lot of concrete but there was this impact in providing an after effect noi essentially giving this perit without requiring any mitigation at all seems like it's essentially asking for it to be treated as a grandfathered issue that isn't having an impact which is not what the what impaction Act is supposed to be used for it's not supposed to say well we we got away with it for seven years it's okay now um there should have there should have been something proposed to address the impacts to the compensatory storage and the uh resource areas that were impacted by this um one other issue I noticed looking at this is that the Deeds are written as the boundary line along Long Pond is the Shore of Long Pond I again I don't know the specifics of the survey um distances but there's some concerns of was this fill which is below bank which I would treat as the retaining wall that I believe has been there for some time I would treat that is the boundary line so is this even on was this fill on this person was this on the property even or was it on whoever owns one pond so that is a concern that I know that the commission doesn't have the ability to look into that um or to enforce about that but it is something that i' noticed as a concern I um you J so um she she actually brings up a a really good point and I I don't disagree with any other the points there um the property line is typically taken from mean high water um Long Pond is Dam controlled and so it fluctuates um they do they do establish it Lakeville tries to keep it at certain levels um those levels are pretty um pretty well available on I think they're on the sele you say Dam controlled well it's it's controlled at the new masket and they have the boards that they can pull in and out they I think they've been they've kept them out correct yeah they put them back in a little bit with the rain but I think they put 54 55 it's usually 53 and change that they keeping it at yeah when it gets up to 55 everybody's getting phone calls but you see 53 they have targets to hit they have qu targets to hit and they've been pretty much trying to hit them yeah so I I don't disagree um that sure that could come up part of the chapter 91 process is obtaining the license for having the structure that's beyond or on the commonwealths property because the pond is owned by the Commonwealth um so that would be part of the process if if we do have a resolution here that includes keeping it then the chapter 91 would lock that part in and I would have to deal with waterways on that um that being said though we still have the issue of the compensatory storage right yep and what you just said is outlined in your letter which I yes okay all right and thank you I'll I'll take a look at that tomorrow and all right so on me a um digital copy of it okay thank you and after everyone that wants to go and does the site then we reconvene on the 28th sure um what would you think about looking for compensatory storage somewhere else where would I yeah I haven't the slightest yet but but if you're kind of in you it has to be somewhere on the pond on which Pond now you're like talking like including it almost an asset because of the damn part well you could but realistically believe it or not as swamps it has a 100d flood elevation that's different than Long Pond but by 410 which blows my mind but long Pawn's 572 as swamps it's 568 so um we would probably be looking somewhere on Long Pond if it's viable and again that's a big F I don't even know if my clients would entertain it or if we can find a place that would make sense okay so the first step is to do the site visit correct so John is every anybody else have anything to say do all set yes I do okay before you make the motion yep could we give ourselves two meetings in order to I think that's appropriate make schedule times both with the weather but also with Calenders um so that put us to have enough time for a site walk I'm just aware of my work schedule and other stuff that's on our calendars Y is that is that okay with you I don't I think we're probably going to even need more than that you know but Let's do let's do the two meetings and I can ask for continuance if need be after that that would be February 11th February 11th 2 Tuesday February 11th at 6:30 we good can I make motion yes I motion to continue the the meeting on three Mona Street SE 192 933 to February 11th at 6:30 pm here at the police station second all in favor I I I thank you okay thank you thank you thank you Nancy just a quick question do we have two and four Bedford Street like is that because I know that 74 Lakes sides continued I don't know about Freetown street is that continued um well we we we're just going to talk about free town okay then I'll I'll pull over to the side put your hazards on yep so but 74 Lakeside you ask to continue right I am please okay so 74 Lakeside um we've had a request to continue that to the 28th okay on that one Jamie that is yes please John motion to continue 74 Lakeside have se1 92931 till uh what8 128 25 at 6:30 p.m. at the police station second any discussion all in favor I I um off Freetown Street just quickly we um had voted to have Brandon fanu help us out and he did actually did everybody um get Brandon's reply we were asked to send a memo to the planning board which we did and discussed at our last meeting and then we voted for some money for Brandon to back us up who basically says kind of what we said but a lot more professionally and he has the uh PWS rpss C WP CPC I don't even know what all those things mean but he that's what he does he's our PE reviewer and he's pretty good at it so um this will be available if anybody wants a copy also um but it basically just backs up the memo that we sent to the planning board when they went which is we need more information also before we're going to make any kind of a decision well there's nothing currently open before us on off Freetown Street also commonly referred to as Rocky Woods um so you will hear both commonly uh talked about there is also there are floating a development name I saw it a couple weeks ago and now it I forgot it already um but there is discussion about exploring an open space residential development plan versus the initial 40b and planning board has asked every board and commission U for their thoughts on considering an osrd versus the 40b so we've already put in our memo to the planning board and said we'd be interested in hearing more information because what was given to us was a conceptual plan that had very little detail and so we said please provide actual detail that we could evaluate and that's where we are right they keep asking our opinion and that's why we're engaging Brandon also to help us EV a more professional manner but we have nothing to actually review at this time so we have approved their anrad which means we've approved already their delineation of the wetlands three vernal pools and two additional did they we had them um certify the additional vernal pools but that's all already been addressed and we've already approved that part but before they could actually do anything else there whatever they decide they're going to do they still have to back come back to conservation with a notice of intent like anybody would have to that was building something near the Wetland we have only approved that for the 40b property which is smaller than if they went the osrd route well we approved it for what they applied what they applied for right y okay so okay Jamie you're up again two and four Bedford Street did she put it on there yeah she did on the Revis plan was coming up as two Bedford Street but it's really two and four bedf streets all right Nancy if I'm if I'm correct I think the commission closed the public hearing on this at the last yes we did we closed the public hearing on this and we had come to the conclusion since we didn't have an agent at the time that we were going to sit down with Zenus and I actually sat down with Niles this morning um as I was going through trying to clean up my paper work I came up with um something that joh Mark Knox had a bunch of comments but Niles had already taken them the only thing we changed okay I went over there this morning and all our special conditions we have Lakeville standard conditions we have Lakeville conservation standard special conditions M we have Lakeville conservation standard condition for storm water management okay we have Lakeville Conservation Commission standard conditions Prior to construction during construction and after construction and we only changed one thing because Mark Knox was um had I I think the notes were from him could have been me too but um a native Hydro seed mix or stabilized through use of erosion control we just want to make sure that when they're seeding they use a native mix so that's the only thing that we added on our standard conditions okay and they're ready to go and we need to vote on them and we can sign it tonight great if it's okay with everyone we need to have a meeting just for this these are are these are the conditions better to have too many they're not enough and we've been using basically all this stuff for many years it's just all now formatted together well on the larger projects is why you throw all of it rest of it in because this is going to be a substantial part project right yes yes these are standard and then we add Riders if needed on on any of the other pieces Y and we did Mark had had um concerns about trees in the parking lot and stuff but that's changed and at the planning board doesn't want any site restrictions on there so the uh the brush I the bushes that are going around are only going to be a certain height cuz you can't pulling out on to Route 18 this ability sure yeah Jamie do you have a copy of this I I don't I I do know that Niles and Nancy went over item by item and I believe that he was he was good with it so okay once we vote on it we'll put it on the website and we'll also email it over to you excellent thank you and by we I mean Lori but the Royal Wii right well she'll send it with a green card cuz you have to register it in Plymouth and we need that back which you know that but I have to continue to remind people because it hasn't been getting done in some condition so okay so I need a motion that we issue this order of conditions on 24 Bedford Street SE 192 891 with the one change on after construct LEL conservation commissions conditions after construction that will uh all Disturbed areas slopes propos landcap landscaped areas and will be loomed and seated using a native Hydro seed mix or stabilized through the use of erosion control blankets so moved okay second any more discussion all in favor I thank you have a great night everybody we won't see that one again okay next Myck Street Rhode Island Road so some uh hard copies for you folks this is just a uh full size set of construction sheets that were size copies and suppl materials for you reference if needed thank you what was the total poundage of all that couple of forest couple of Forest right W thank you pile together weighs more than I do thank you took a couple of rides up and down the length of uh that road 79 the other day commission want on the non-conservation of the paper right yes by they get paid by the by the P right um I have to say I've gotten a few phone calls on this um I don't know if anyone is anyone here on the 79 project besides da no okay um there was one lady I told her to come to the meeting and she's on a walker so I said I would ask her questions okay um so there's a couple of areas one's two Eagle Way in learon just so you know in advance and the other's um galfrey road which I didn't even realize the backyards from gy road yeah came out on to 79 well you can't see any houses no it's up high so high yeah okay all right so and we have one ay here from 126 Rhode Island Road so those are the three areas I'm sure you're going to go through all the changes right yeah okay not a whole lot in the way it changes all right but I just want to throw that out there up front so I don't have to keep interrupting you uh so for the record John Nero uh professional Wetland scientist with beta group mat Sho with beta group project manager um so we met with you folks uh a few weeks back um we presented the project we uh had some discussions about some of the drainage questions in the area surrounding 126 rede Island Road um since that meeting um we have done some additional research regarding those drainage issues uh but just to give you folks the more immediate background um last Monday January 6 we did submit uh additional and some revised information uh to Lori in the office I pretty soon there realized she was off for the week um Nancy was kind enough to return my call um and gave me a place to actually send this information that was sent last Wednesday so the email I sent over and the supplemental materials address uh a couple things one of them actually was not discussed in the last meeting um but it's something that came up during our review um with the Army Corps and that is that it's it's more of an administrative issue than anything it doesn't result in any design change but we did revise our impacts to or the reported impacts to land underwater the reason being is if you recall we're going to be doing some work on uh three culs not a replacement but one's being extended and two are just getting some work done to them um what Army Corps request did we do and we realize it's probably best to do this uh for the concom as well is to actually include since there's a stream running through the covert and the cver need to be dewatered to do the work in the dry is just to count that as a temporary impact so we basically took the square footage of the covers um and just reported those as temporary land underwater impacts in case they do need to be dewatered um to do the work uh but again no no design change for that it was just U an administrative change to the plans and files um so we did submit the rise plans and revise uh narrative and the revise nii form for your records um one of the other questions that came up um was regarding impervious area at the project I think you had brought that up Michelle um so we did I did confirm we did submit our storm water report um I realized that Lori had only asked for two hard copies of it since it was such a large file so it may have not made it way around to all the Commissioners so we did just want to uh restate what we stated in our storm water report which is that um our impervious area is essentially going to go from um about 46,000 square feet to about 620,000 s ft so obviously that's an increase in impervious area of about 213,000 Square ft and that is um one of the reasons for us having a bit more of a robust uh drainage system upgrade than say just replacing a few catch basins or throwing some hoods in some catch basins we actually going to be adding deep sumped catch basins replacing catch basins rerouting drainage uh pipe runs and actually having off-road Standalone best management practices um like water quality sailes um to actually uh deal with the increase in impervious area um and our stor Water Report goes through a more detailed compliance with the mass storm water standards um the last item was regarding uh the drainage concerns at 126 Rhode Island Road um Donna the abutter had had noted that there was concerns with uh existing and potential um exacerbating of flooding on the property we spoke with Mast doot uh District 5 maintenance went pretty deep through their records um as well as talking with the DPW and so um we did do some research um and we feel that project will not exacerbate any flooding at the site and that can speak more to what we uncovered sure so this first graphic um mot actually supplied to us this is all from them um this is a summary of work that they they did along the frontage of um 126 Rhode Island Road along Route 18 uh back in 2023 so in summary the work involved um first just to describe what's happening with the existing drainage system out there there's two cat basins uh on Route 79 here that connect to each other they' run this way they run down to a manhole that had been paved over um and prior to the work that M did out here that this this storm water flowed into this manhole and then out into this property um there's a slight pitch in this cover under route 18 from west to east um down gradient uh I think it's about a 3 in chain doing it backwards the route 18's up on the top and Route 17 rout 18's going up straight up okay okay see R is up in that top right corner um so mot um as a result of the some meetings with the property owner they actually plugged the head wall to this pipe so that storm water could not get out here um so that basically now the pipe is still sloped in this direction but the Outlet's plugged so the pipe is it's always got water in it and when it fills up you know over 3 or 4 in it flows back this direction out to this existing outfall um which this area has since been modified but this structure was held and I think the new root of the pipe comes down this way this was a separate project um by this developer uh some other work the mot did out here um was this white dotted line here um was let me see oh that's existing Highway guard rail um this was an existing paved waterway that collected storm water that ran along the edge of the pavement and just discharged into the property as well so they installed uh They removed that paved water way and put hot Mi Asal burn across that opening um so essentially there's no stor water getting from Route 18 um into the property um today how long ago do they do that 2023 last year um is can Donna come up and look at this you're if do you guys mind yeah go why don't you turn it around so that uh we have that a butter here so she can see what you're talking about especially on the Route 79 part we had um we had talked about dropping cameras uh down there so you guys could take a look at what was actually going on underground did that happen uh we did not because uh mot supplied all that information he actually did that work but that was that was work that was done in 2023 did they provide more recent footage of what's actually going on well the pipe is pled this point so there's no way for water going back onto herck correct what what about what's going on under 79 from from north to south what's happening there it's blocked Crossing 18 there right but what about but you say it pitches that way this pip pitches in down in this direction so they have a blocked they say it's blocked is it do we know it's truly blocked um still flooding on those rain yes well I will I will just note that area is a wetland yeah so for what that's worth I'm love to have a cofy because I don't understand this so this is what talking where is where is my property Mark let him show her where the property is that's you okay John let him let him plant door please this is your okay so over here these four drained onto my property that's correct and they were going to drain this way okay Mas do came and did their work what they did is they disconnected this one and this one and this one and nothing comes on my property anymore according to them and that's why they closed this up and the pipe that goes under that road pitches up right okay so the water couldn't drain anyway so it stayed on my property but they never shot under there to se that the pipe drained up so uh as it was explained to us these these structures are still connected there's still storm water flowing through these pipes onto my property no it it flows down to this there's a structure here it can't go out into your property anymore because this Outlet was plugged so now it flows back in this direction but it can't go under the road because that pipe goes up here it's only pitched very slightly so the water there's always some there's a few inches of water in that pipe when it gets up over 3 or 4 in then it flows in this direction okay and as dry as we had last year I still have have water there m so this is the natural this is a low point on your property here um and there's still storm water getting to your property from Route 79 over here so it's possible may be flowing down I have another graphic behind this that I want to show um the difference from uh what's happening today versus post our project um but I wanted to First explain what mot did in 2023 um okay to address that discharge Donna why don't you let him continue a little bit and we'll let you ask some more questions later okay thank you thank you so they did uncover that manhole and adjust it up yeah they uncovered this adjusted it up we've got photos of all the construction work sent us plugged Outlet um so okay so thank you so this plan um again same view this is the the building on 126 Rune 18e 79 um we took this all the way over to the property line so the the red arrows are indicating the the existing storm water flow today so today actually Route 79 is pitched towards rofos property um from the the south side of 79 towards the north you can see the red arrow here red arrow here um so there's no there's no sheet flow from the roadway onto 126 today in this section once we get down to the easterly side of the property the roadway slope flips and there is storm water flow discharging onto the property um and then on Route 18 as I mentioned before there's now after massot did that work to remove the paved Waterway opening um all the storm water flow on rout Route 18 flows down um following these red arrows um it comes around the corner and enters the structure on the curve line so this storm water again comes down connects to a CB pulls along the gutter to the manhole near the the cover and then under R 18 that way so that's the existing condition post project um we will be the the project will construct uh vertical curb all along this Frontage down to Clear Pond Road and that's for the sidewalk that's going to be built there that sidewalk will pitch towards the roadway um around the corner that curb will be extended and then the limit of our work actually ends um right here which is about 50 ft north of that c so we're not changing any of the the BM along the edge that gets retained um and so the stor water that's flowing onto the property today um will be maintained in the roadway it will be collected by the new storm water system that will still flow down to that manhole flow under 18 so um you know we were tked with demonstrating that the project would not uh exacerbate any any flooding that may be happening on the property so that's the intent of this graphic yeah just uh just just add on kind of a 10,000 ft level overview is really what's going to end up happening is Matt had noted earlier that some of this flooding could be from sheet flow runoff along Route 79 Northwest of the propert or Northeast of the property that's going to get cut off by the curbing it's going going to get into the drainage system it'll go into that Culvert that once could back up onto 126 or to 126 R Island Road but with that plug in place that water that was once going onto the property will now not be going onto the property it would go into the CT hit that plug how big is the pipe that goes under 18 you know is it is it on there um 12 in would would Mass DOT consider replacing that and pitching it the right way um I can't answer that it's I mean it's outside the limit of this project and I I can answer that they told me that they have to dig the whole Road up that's why they couldn't do it they would have to yes because you couldn't do it from underneath but in their um in their opinion the pipe is still functioning as it should even though there's always some water in it it's ultimately it it does discharge the yeah it's only holding or four when it's slack right right so a new a new one turned in in the direction opposite would make very little difference right oh just velocity it would pick up velocity okay but that's down that side so what you're basically saying so that Donna understands is that red right there where you're saying that it is Flowing onto her property that you're designing it so that that doesn't happen anymore correct and we see these a lot with these projects in more I guess rural if you want to call it that areas where you have kind of effectively country drainage as a sheet flows off the road you know we had a project NX Bridge recently that was similar as you put up the curbing it kind of gives it gives you a gutter line so now instead of sheep flowing off the road it can concentrate get into the Clos strange system is the sidewalk going to be slanted throughout the the um the breath of the project the whole project it slopes towards the RO what's the percentage grade on that one and a half so it's ADA Compliant it's plus or minus half% but we design it at one and a half so the contract with this in tolerance to half a percent not that that falls within our purview but that's just a citizen curiosity but but imagining you know loers and but but to tie it into this you know as as Matt had noted it's the sloping away will help make sure that we're not just building a sidewalk that then there's going to sheet flow back on to the property right well that's going to I mean we're talking about a a long stretch of property here with a lot of potential impacts throughout so I just wanted to make sure we were addressing them continually so thank you for that Donna I I have another question we you have um drain this water onto my property and it's going to go under that pipe that doesn't work you wouldn't have a problem if I filled in I built um a wall a concrete wall because your highway is 66 ft 33t from the center so on my actual property if I buil that there your water is going to deteriorate the way the road is already starting to to collapse that would be okay with mop so we're not proposing any discharge to your property under this scenario right they're changing it Donna see right there with they're admitting that it is Flowing onto your property right there will you point to the red nope up top up there yeah they're going up by Winds Way right yep they're talking yes and they they're redesigning it so that doesn't happen anymore they're also going to pitch the sidewalk at an angle where it the water that hits a sidewalk is going to go onto the road right not onto your property the way the um I don't know if they call the manhole cover things they both drain onto my property go this way heading towards The Liquor Shack and we're supposed to go under there's still draining on my property and that water never goes away now why would that be she's talking about the other ones that are out of here concerned with the other yeah so there is after the Mast did that work that cover is now plugged there's no water discharging onto your property so if I drain that water that's still there if I drain it it won't be any more coming in from that St right no there won't there's not to that and but that water you may still you can BR the water here mhm which John this is BBW yeah so it's I mean well so when we yeah when we were out there it's it's a wetland and the stream channel within it so I mean and as Matt noted it's a low point in the property so even if this were to be say pumped out with a with a sump pump I mean you're you're not just fighting surface water you're ground any water that falls I mean this is a large property anything that falls on this um that on side of the roadway it it it may we have you know this school is not in our study area to but this may all be draining to that spot so you may still see water if you were to drain this pump this out you may still see water collect there right well I'm going to drain the water okay where that thing is and then I'm going to build a wall where that big hole is that you think is coming from wind's way down I'm going to pour concrete there so then we'll see where the water goes Donna that's a wetland there I'm not going to feel an all Wetlands I'm just going to fill in their hole where they think their water is coming from wind's way down it's not it's coming from the drainage ditches onto my property and that's what's keeping it because the whole end of my property fills with water and I have a well all we can really speak to is that this design won't exacerbate flooding issues on the property right and you're wrapping that burm right around the corner to to the end of your work right yeah we're actually extending curb around the corner y uh it's burm today and then we're proposing a short section of burm to tie into the existing burm so was the sidewalk wrapping around uh no the sidewalk on this side ends here there's a ramp you'll have to cross here cross here using the the new traffic signal gotcha okay okay next got so I guess Donna's problem would be further down with mot than what you're you're doing everything you can to keep water off her property is that basically what correct and is anybody doing a period riew on this uh not that I'm aware of I mean well I guess the to our knowledge the town or Conservation Commission has not hired a peer reviewer but I will say um when a firm like ours prepares uh these projects for the town and that Mast dots you know funding the construction is all of mots uh environmental staff and Engineers review the work and do you get response from them when they when they over yes yeah so we work mot is so the projects it's a town of Lakeville project but uh Mast dobly funds the construction Matt is that what it is that's right so there Mast doot is involved through the whole process reviewing all the documentation we have a record of all the comments we've got for mot that's my question yes yep and do we are we are we get receiving those we can get them to you but we have we had not been asked for those they were not included so well we can we can get those together I think it would be good for the record to have yeah basically like a peer review right correct yeah they have to make sure that what we're designing works because it's their names on it you get a summary that has their comments and our response indicating what right what was like a peer review yeah do you have any comments back from the Army Corps as well or uh we did have have some they were largely um administrative I would say is just making sure that uh certain labels are changed to reflect Army Corps terminology rather than nasp um and then they wanted some additional photos of some of the work areas around the CTS but nothing that really changed the design of the project at all um and they had indic the reviewer had indicated to us that you know the application is now complete um as part of the Army courp process they have to do federal inter agency coordination um you know fish and wildlife FEMA Etc so it's just making its rounds now and then uh we expect to get authorization hopefully in the next month or so when you get authorization from Army Corps could you send us a copy of that that says it's gone through the rounds of certification from them as well as you know any approval from they'll issue a letter saying that it's that our project covered under the Mass General permit for Army Corps um and uh if if they conditions they they includ that would be included I think it would be helpful for us to have a copy of all of that um as part of our evaluation yes yes so so fish and wildlife uh presumably is going to look at it from endangered species or other other yeah in these areas it's mainly uh Northern longe bat is is what they look for um with projects like this they they generally fall under a not likely of adversely effect um uh given the nature sure Works say the longe bat Northern longe bat Northern long okay I'm I'm just doing that for another project it's an okay mam chair we have a couple reminded questions here yes um the the two functioning covers that you're replacing are they both yearlong flow year round flow uh so we're not fully replacing any we're just doing some work on them on them right but yes there's um are they both confirming they 12 in the Cs is so we have a 30in concrete pipe okay we have there's three total cuz there was a flow associated with all of them right correct um each one is mapped or either mapped or indicated by stream stats as perennial stream correct okay one of them is Thompson Brook THS Brook okay um and another question uh you said you're going to have to stop flow at certain points how how long would you so we we had kind of assumed that just to be conservative to present you know the most conservative impact um assessment that we could there's a good so I did the delineation out there I was out there a few times in the past few years I I did see points in time where even Thompson Brooke was very very low feet per second yeah it was it moving it was very low um but you know if it's pretty minor work that they're doing with the exception of the CT extension so they might not even need to be water but if they did um Talk the afternoon or something like that yeah but they they they would make sure if if if they had to do the work they would ideally do the work during a period of low I was going to say because you're saying very low and you're saying moving fast so he's talking about two different right so so well it adds up fast even a small flow right so what they would have to do is is they would have to come up with a bypass plan to basically pump out from the covert and then discharge it Downstream the the preferred method if they can will be to to uh put a smaller diameter pipe inside of the existing pipe that to and maintain the flow through the cul they're working on and build around that smaller P yes they have the option they they contractors the option to do that which will be the easiest method if they can do it but in any case they have to make sure that they continue to flow so there's no back up I feel a little cleaner now that the cement plants not yes anybody else so I guess we're continuing are we is there more information you do well I would say we would like to get the information or we could just write it into the order of conditions the information that we're looking for like the peer review stuff from De Mass do and I think I'd like to look at that before we actually uh it's up to you folks I mean we would happily take a condition you know requiring the submission of those materials before construction starts um you know I think I mean at this point we feel that the project meets all performance areas for work within resource areas and we've sufficiently mitigated um storm water concerns so oh and we did actually One update I should have given you early on is we did go before the Conservation Commission taunt last night I saw that in there yeah they did um they did approve an issue in order and conditions just just for your records yeah that was that was in here okay that um I saw that along the list with Army Corps and everything so I did note that so that process was completed last night so I'm comfortable with going forward and just making it a part of the condition that okay before work starts you know our normal we need to go out and review everything but we need the the approval go forward letter from um from Army Corps with all this with all sign off we need all this stuff before work begins yes and and we we um would ride their order of conditions um on top of ours as well Army Corp is Army Corps is going to have all of their conditions yes as well of ours and I'd like to see taunton's order conditions yeah we can send that along um when they issue it your projected date of start for this work um they'll probably start um NE Us in Spring of 2026 okay is anything open with any of the other boards in town to go through there's no other with the to everything is complete okay Donna one last would it be possible for this committee to maybe come out and see what I'm talking about with this drainage system Wetland um we can come and do a site visit Donna I would love to have you come and see what has been done right but I don't think it's going to change what they're doing because they've admitted where what they're doing is going onto your property and that that's why your 126 I told you was included in the memo of that they're going to fix that so if it's the still the mass do thing that's farther out of their work doesn't have to do with them but we would come and do a site visit yeah we'd be happy to do that have you see because when I said fill it in I have um where their drainage goes under the road mask on right there's a big Dugout area why is that Dugout my land level is much higher and there's a big hole there all I'm talking about filling in is a big hole that was dug out so I can answer that okay um so before before M did this work in 2023 you guys see that yep yep so before massot did all of this work um the water that's flowing through these structures did discharge right into your property and so that outlet creates a scour hole um you know the the the ground gets scoured out from the velocity of the pipe and that's just left over now the water isn't coming out here but that that hole is still there like because it used to be an outlet I understand that but that is on M Dot's land too that's not my problem my problem is right here there's a big Dugout area that goes right behind my property you own in here so that little hole there's nothing I can do about M all right but masot owns yeah so there's nothing and I can't complain about that but it doesn't have to keep draining out here so what I'm talking about is just filling in my land it won't affect theirs but that's what Mass dots water when it fills in there it backs up on my property going then we we'll come look at it and make sure it's not a wetland area or whatever you have to do but as far as they're concerned of what they're doing I think that they've done the best they can mitigate their piece that was going on youan okay but we will we'll come out and do a site visit we have an agent now and when he does a site visit what he will do is he will like text the rest of us and ask if anybody wants to go I think that would be a good right okay sounds good okay so motion man I'm not making this motion you guys have a lot of things you want to add to it so all right so okay I'm looking for a motion to close the hearing and issue an order of conditions um when did you say you wanted to start um spring spring of 26 all right so when are you going to send us Taunton order of conditions as soon as you get it they just issued it we get it so it should be within 21 days of yesterday um I would be happy if you'd um if they don't issue it for 21 days I want to see that before we do ours so I if we close this hearing I'd like to you to send us a letter that we can extend our 21 days a little bit okay would there be a finite yeah number of days well what do we want I mean I'm trying to think what we would come up with why don't we um make a motion to close the hearing and give ourselves 45 days 45 days to draft our order of conditions pending receipt of the Army Corps of Engineers comment approval and the Taunton conservation commission's order of conditions so that we may incorporate them into the Lakeville conservation commission's order of do you think you're going to get the Army cour well so I will say taunt is obviously Bound by a 21 day requirement Army cour kind of does what they want okay so we can we can incorporate Taunton 45 days so we may incorporate ta taunton's conservation commiss and we'll have something in our conditions that say anything that comes from army Corp will be additional yeah is in hereby Incorporated by say that we anticipate uh you know these are granted as long as we receive the Army Corps of Engineers approval and and the contractor incorpor you give us something in writing to Lori at the office that um was an issue that's fine that you'll give us 45 days email fine yes yes okay and you can CC mark would do you have an email yet it's uh first initial M last name is uh m n teville ma.org so moved all right what no I didn't do it yet I haven't done it yet all right I need a I I can get a carard too oh yeah yeah before all right so I can reach out to you I need a motion to close the hearing issue an order of conditions in with 45 day grace period um which would be in lie of receiving t 's order of conditions um not in l no not in L subject two subject two I'm sorry who's l in subject two sorry um receiving taunton's order of conditions and adding any conditions that the Army Corp might issue issue at some point I'll set so moved and and yeah and we need to receive Mass do comments y so Mo that won't probably be second Joe's got it all right so any more discussion no okay all in favor wow thank you congratulations thank you so need some Machinery to get all that stuff we did this did that you thought we want these to go with all right the basket's over there so all right when I collect the things I'll your name plate okay what's next 51 all right 51 sh all right we got to wait for him to come back Mark I have all her contact information okay okay and we want to talk about 51 Shore a I don't want to do it without you no it's okay I have to learn how to work with an agent I think I've been doing a lot of it so I'm trying to okay my apologies no problem all right um 51 Shore renue we have this is continued I was a little confused this was continued from and it doesn't show as a continuance before the holidays yeah before the holiday and actually I talked to them today and that Mark had been playing phone tag with them and they called the office and I was there and he wasn't and I talked to them and they assured me that they had put the stuff we asked for on cuz I said I didn't know if we were going to want a notice of intent on this because of the conditions I'd like or that we would like to put on here that we had talked about last time a deep watering area which I don't see it on here uh a truck on site in case of an emergency this is the last house on the end of Shore Avenue in in Clark Shores it has Long Pond here and it doesn't even show on the plan actually that there's a canal that goes to a well an area in the back on the side so it's on water on two sides basically um and I did want to check also into I did with the Board of Health today that um the Clark Shores uh year round water does not go down Shore a that had been my other question because if they could get public water then I I wouldn't have been in favor of them um the only thing I see added that we asked for is the comment that the existing well shall be decomissioned when new well is brought online they did make that note uh uh existing well where uh right above where stamped L Pond okay got it it used to say just existing well they did add the comment that uh we specifically asked for there um we wanted it stated on there that that was going to be done okay so they did do that but the other two and what about the hay bale line am I missing that too no I don't see any of the other things that we asked for on here all right so it should be a um sultation barrier also yep and on a notice of intent you can put a but this is after it gets after it gets past two there's no backup on RDA we have no backup from d on RDA on these conditions and a notice of intent we can do as many conditions as we want it goes to D and we have backup if it goes bad but um and my question to them was who's told you to do an RDA and not an noi in the first place and uh it was a representative from Prime and he just said that that's what he was told to do well if they failed a second time to give us what we asked for do we go back and say now you have to give us an noi that's question you know we've had in the past on Shore Avenue because it's all on pee I mean the tight tanks on Shore Avenue have to be even weighted down cuz they pop out of the ground pop oh yeah it's all on Phil um and we have in the past mandated that they have a truck on site when the the watering thew watering pit or area isn't enough well they're going to hit water and it's going to spew so right um and there's no citation barrier there's no notify the agent when you're going to start work you know all those things is not appropriate to put a list of those things on an RDA so I don't know it's up to the commission I is this is just so questionable because of the area I mean this whole place was underwater a while back I would propose that we ask them to come to the next meeting and say that we have um a list of questions and we would appreciate well why don't we give them one more opportunity to give us an accurate plan if it's all on the plan then we don't have to put it on as a condition yeah put it on the plan and and come in person to please answer the questions so that we can you know make it as as easy as as possible we don't want to complicate it how about as clear as possible of what we want from them just put it on the plan I'd like to keep it simple but um so let's go ahead and continue it but provide them a letter outlining exactly what we're still missing and what we would like to see on the plan okay do we have a list of those items yeah uh truck on site or in yeah never mind L um uh truck on site or an emergency number we want to see there emergency number or do we want a truck on site one or the other we need a truck or a tank um t a truck well that's what I mean a tanking table that's 6 in from down there all right so we want water we want a tanker on site and a dewatering area and a silt fence and a silt fence or a silt barrier agent notification yep commission commission agent that's a standard see now if you had notice of intent that's one of our standard conditions that you call us to inspect your hay line and we want to know be informed when the work starts there was one so you can go make sure the truck's there it's just the well right yeah it's not at that it's just not put a tight tanket no no they have a system I don't know how they possibly whatever that hole it's a tight tank right next door right yeah when when do we just have that last flooding I was D you couldn't even get to door Avenue it was totally underwater the whole thing okay was like so you would notify the agent to inspect that bad saltation yep and notify the agent when work it's going to begin we want a date when the wells coming and start spewing stuff all over the place it's not like we haven't had that happen before where it gets spewed into the pond is this an email to Prime um to Prime engineering yeah Lori can help you with all that and we also I heard ask them to come to the next meeting to yes please will be the 28th yes thank you so we want to continue it yes please I make a motion to continue 51 Shore AV RDA to our next meeting on 18 128 12825 at 6:30 p.m. at the police station second any more discussion no you've been down there Bob right 51 sh many times yeah me too okay um all in favor all right so we getting there 160 bed for Street everybody's favorite we received a can't find it now among everything a uh request to continue this one but I think we have some members that are not happy with it including myself but I had talked to riverhawk and I thought they were coming to the meeting but I have a feeling that um there was something with prime that maybe they were told not to come I don't know speculation on my part but I thought they were I thought riverhawk who's working for Prime was coming to the meeting to explain and basically all riverhawk did was send us the information about the water testing Y which and they told us that the Phill has been accepted and it's going to be it's been AC accepted y in New York um it's going to be transported on the 16th of January shortly after right and just for the information for out there is there was arsenic and the soil samples that they collected was arsenic and so it's been sitting in a lined container as per regulation on the lot for a while now because no one in the state of Massachusetts would take it and they can't only just get rid of it because it could be how it got here in the first place came in with some fill I don't know but we're not going to send it to be someone else's problem so they have to document where it goes and when and um they were working on getting it to go to Vermont and now they found somebody in the state of New York to take it and it will be leaving the site on the 16th which is the day after tomorrow so we will be getting all the documentation of who took it and where it went so I make a motion to continue 160 Bedford Street till 12825 at 6:30 here at the police station second um I have a discussion please um this is it after this comes now our next step is going to be the original filing is a notice of intent that we've never even looked at yet so um I've been sending to Brandon who I'm hoping is going to be our peer riewer on this that um I've been sending to him what's been happening there in lie of him being the peer reviewer when we finally have open and it's already opened but we haven't gotten to it because of the enforcement order and the stop work order um so we will need to get a uh to get it moving forward because everybody in town is like a lot of the other committees are like waiting on us for this is I'd like to get some kind of an estimate from Brandon for a peer review so we're set to go money's in line when it hopefully we close this out on the 28th and move forward with the notice of intent for the drainage respectfully yes they're going to need to modify their initial notice of intent uh to modify their storm water controls given the uh storm water testing results so their initial notice of intent is going to have to be modified anyway based on the testing results that came back okay I don't know what their plan is for that but um that was the recommendation from as a a result of the testing right so their initial notice of intent might need to be well we wouldn't actually send the plan I think he could probably give us an estimate of what he'd need to review storm water period 100% I just want to keep that like make sure we don't send them the wrong plan to look at or that when we review the notice of intent as it was initially filed with us that shouldn't be the storm water control plan that we're evaluating because we know for a fact that whatever they initially had is not going to be adequate based on the findings that we've had in the last last six months okay of going through this enfor enforcement order okay um and so I think that's something that we should definitely keep top of Mind as we start to review the process okay so and perhaps maybe as markets caught up we you know we can address it with the applicant right off the bat and say do you want to pull your notice of attent and refile or do you want to file an amended one how would you like to address it give them the opportunity uh right at the beginning before we waste any time dealing with a notice of intent it's going to have to be no I think they could amend it yeah but have that conversation well let see I went to the planning board meeting the other night y what's going on with that is they're trying to guess put a parking lot just in the front and even just sitting here watching that last presentation it looks like the storm drainage is going to drain back into donor's appropriate but I thought we were talking about the storm drainage for being both Parcels now I didn't get notified so when I called they said I wasn't within 300 ft for the planning board I went to the planning board they just said it was continue till they hear back from you right right all right well here's the deal is the planning board's only looking at that's an L-shaped lot we're looking at it's two different pieces there's uh the one in in the front and then the one in the back that goes down your street the planning board is only looking at that one and I had talked to them to say you know sometimes we piggyback on them for a peer review but our of intent that we have and now it's probably going to have to be amended but it's for both pieces the planning boards only looking at one piece we're looking at both pieces so we're going to get a peer review on the whole thing if the planet board wants to do theirs on their piece they can or they can piggy back on us this time but we're looking at both pieces so could you consider my wet LS because they put in a lot of fill and black top not black top whatever it is that's stuck on top of the dirt and they've built it up a lot and that goes into my Wetlands they used to pack there before so now when they make their nice packing WS it's going to drain What lands you get well it can't that's why we get a peer review that's what a peer review is all about is the engineer looks at it whatever they propose it looks like it's going to drain on to yours they're going to have to accommodate that and have it just like they did tonight with mass with a Route 79 what's going on your property they'll have to engineer that it does not go onto your property okay because see this a there's a byw I heard in this town that there's so many feet between one place and another a 20t bucker and it's never been maintained so that's a different I the zoning bylaw but the wetlands protection act does allow us that even though they are not doing work on your property if your Wetland is adjacent to and they have to respect that buffer zone and so when we they haven't come to us with that front property work that would be something that that we could review it's just well no it is the front property work is included on their original but we haven't started to we haven't started to review tackled it yet you know what fascinates me is all this and this has nothing to do with your commission but all the work that's being done on that property has never had a permit and they're still operating so they don't have to come to meetings that's why they and they're violating your assistant toist yeah there's no supposed to be stuff going in and out and they're still doing it I mean you don't have to they can do whatever they want and keep postponing meetings we keep coming to the meetings and and they they've been going on since all they're not supposed to be bringing anything in and or out of they well the the cars and stuff is outside of our perview so we I'm talking about you have a season assist this should not be material coming in or going out but we know it was we know there was there there was but I didn't know since I season toist that's like well I have another question when you did that test pit and found the ARs do you stop at one test pit or does that make a red flag go up that you do more test pit there were multiple and then we had them well they I know where they were they were scattered around and they weren't done in the piece where I saw them bring a lot of stuff in so we had them do additional ones I was una aware of that yeah we had additional tests because of the results that come back yeah because of the results of the first ones we had additional all the water testing make we have those results uh that we reviewed that's part of the the storm water um that we just spoke about um we just got that to we just get that we just got that today yeah well he's supposed to come and explain it tonight from my understanding I thought riverhawk was coming and why I mean my do you know what I mean our frustration is we keep coming now every other board is blaming waiting on you guys and then they just keep not delivering you know like last time I was here before I think December 10th they were supposed to have a water thing done with the other thing and they just never did it well no it's not that's what we got I know but then that just bought another month do you know I'm saying about two weeks well it was December 10th and now it's the 14th right that's a month in my mind well that all the water testing there was a drought and the water they have reasonable explanation so for us they didn't they didn't do it they could well they don't do it in a drought they waited until the drought November said October and November were drought months so now they've done it in December they could do it and they did it but then it has to go to the lab and then the lab takes time to analyze it it's just in the meantime you know like this isn't your problem but we have a junkyard being operated and no one shutting it down you know what I mean it's being allowed to be operated I can't get an answer from this time do you know where the sample was taken what do you know where the sample specifically I don't know I saw the first meeting they had a couple holes and then they asked for some more so I don't didn't know whether it's uh sand or gravel or or we have soil we have all we have all that information we have a whole report so groundwater was included no only storm water was we don't have groundwater testing but there the reason I bring that up EXC wait a minute reason I bring this up is there's a different standard you can't apply water supply standards to dry uh surface samples this is new new New England right all the material you see coming down rivers and whatnot is all as a result of the last no think of the Glaciers are basically right thank you so that's if if you've got a soil or sand deposit that's what you have to measure and has to comply with it's very in Massachusetts is loaded you do 21 years you do all all kinds of study testing and in the lab surface and groundwater correct and no 21 was done on the property they took half of a whole hill out now my driveway is cracking I mean they completely removed the whole hill yeah so it changed the whole Contour of the land the wetlands are now cracking my driveways where they come across there was water in those Wetlands they filled all around those wet of course that's by the nature of the the way it should work well usually you should go apply for a permit before you take all the dirt out and bring dirt in they depends on not trying to be it depends on where you are what you going to use it for all of that thing so that when you're applying applying for it you know if you you buy a house and you have to do a 218 right next door to use a silver processing right these are the factors that you have to take into account you can't just say oh well we found such and such a when in fact it really is it doesn't apply so you need work if that's what you're being told you need find another another consultant what do you mean you're losing it he purchased a property and didn't have to do it to any because he paid cash for it so there was never a$ 21 that's a per that's a business decision correct and then the board asked them to do some test bits for to see what was on the property they came back and it was ourn in one of the test PS they requested more tests at the same time they asked for the test because they asked for groundw I believe or no storm we asked for storm water I would bet I would bet I would go out and take 10 samples throughout uh the the uh 10 samples throughout Massachusetts and you would find nine in all of them at some degree it all depends on where you take it what materials worth you mean the art aric Bob the Arsenic y yeah yeah arsenic radiation is is there is there a so that doesn't have Ron well there a lot of test pits that didn't have all right so we just got that today so that will be available for you if you want to see it we just got it ourselves today so that and they will be here to explain it on the 28 who's going to explain it riverhawk they're going to come yeah I I don't know he told me he was coming but I have a feeling that somehow he was called off I don't know I'll have to I didn't have time to look into it today cuz we just got it today I will find out why they didn't come how many times can you keep moving this up part do you know what I mean well it's a process it's like the wheels of this seem to move slowly because of the drought and then it was because of the lab and then it was because they couldn't get the soil samples they have legitimate it's not like they just make stuff up they have it's slow but they're showing us that they're doing something every time so it's not like they haven't done anything between last time and this time just so you know whether they show up or not we can't close this their cease and assist like they are still under the notice of violation until the fill is off the property and to the landfill that they've contracted with and we get the certified notification that they are in receipt that's when they are in compliance with um our notice of violation currently that's what the select board and planning board are waiting on when they say that they're waiting on us they're not waiting on us they have refused to uh consider anything from the property until those two conditions are still met so we we'll forward that they did comply with the storm water testing and that we got the results without we are still waiting for that soil to be moved off of the property um because they were told the applicant that they would not consider any business applications they would not consider is there one you know uh giving them any waivers they also can't take any action while they're under a violation from one of the other boards so when planning and select boards say they're waiting on us it's not really us it's waiting for them to close out what they do are due to us so right now it'll be the next couple of days and we will have mark check in with them on this the first time on the 16th and then every day after is the fill at the site yet is the fill at the site yet where is the documentation so that we can get that get that done initially we thought that that Phill was going to be able to go someplace someplace locally you may have that I um I can print out another copy um there was a place up Northwest forget near Worcester and then there was a place down in Bourne um they were declined those so a little bit of the delay was finding somebody who is as Nancy stated was willing to take that fill um hadn't met their Max on contain on contaminated soil like bringing a fill in and filling in the wetlands and all of that worms is that all done after this that is some of that will be we'll address that as we can we've asked for um we've reviewed photos uh going back of the of the land um and we'll be comparing all that as we look at the work they're proposing and we're able to compare what has been done there um but right now we're strictly focusing on the violation order we're trying to keep it focused um and get through feel like we were trying to feel like we're making progress and keep it focused and get through one thing at a time understanding how for lack of any other better word how gnarly this property is because there's two properties and it there's violations on everybody's property that's AB budding um and that it's really been quite messy there's you know previous owners that have done work there's the current owner um so we're trying to kind of keep it tight and then we'll get one step at a time together does that help I know it's not I know it's not perfect and I know it's not going to be fixed tomorrow is really not with you guys it's just it's do you know mean we have a junk sh and we got some of the cars out but that hasn't been done and that shouldn't have anything to do with conservation that should be but i' just like to read this Memo from them so you see exactly that they it's not like they haven't done anything from last time storm water samples we are providing work that has been completed since the last meeting so Conservation Commission can't see our progress attached are the data tables and site sketches that show storm water sample locations zinc and copper were detected in samp and select samples at concentration slightly above the epa's Benchmark monitoring con concentrations we recommend the installation of storm water controls to address these concentrations storm water settling methods deep sump CCH basins storm water settling basins Etc are effective means of reducing low level concentration of metals suspended in storm water the goal will be to have a limited subsurface investigation report and limited removal Action Report completed shortly after 116 2025 so from our perspective I I don't feel I know the other boards are putting the pressure on us too but we we're doing our job step by step by step I can't say they haven't done anything they they're following the procedure but these things like the arti it just but you know when you when you fill in Wetlands or mcky land with a bunch of stuff you don't know where it came from can that cause those problems but that's one of the first things they did they went back on plans there's nothing from D that shows Phil on that site and believe me de does that all the time it will come up on their map that will show areas of where Phil has been put and they will come to us and go through our records and want to know if it was was put there was piles and piles and truck loads that just got pushed over they were stop piling it for a long time but it's not coming up any Maps they've gone back 20 years on the map material we can find it pretty quickly you just have to dig down it's old bricks and part of buildings it's it's all there it's on the property I can show you where it is just has to be dug out do you know what I mean but I would assume some of that stuff that you just read off could come from that material correct correct we know you you people are trying and we appreciate that thank you because I don't feel like anyone else is working on this well it also seems like they did I guess we can ask for even more soil borings well I can show you where it was do you know what I mean like I I was I've been there for 24 years right you'd have to show us on a plan because you really can't be on their property well I could do point from my driveway exactly where where where it is or I mean if you just want to bring the new guy over to see what's going on you know what I mean I know I know the hill where you're talking about we can't go dig though what's that I know I know where you're talking about the side no the hill is a different that was taking Phil out this was bringing different dump yeah you know what I mean so they had originally brought um a bunch of fill in that's over near the BM near the wetlands Y and built that up because it was as low as Donna's piece of property and it was all mck so they brought that up I would say at least 8 I think that this is all um things that we'll address when we actually get to the notice of a 10 and we review the actual work because the work that they're planning is right in that that the work that they're planning is right in that area so we're going to have to do some very in-depth analysis of what the land looks like today um and I went on a s sidewalk there um we went there late fall um I mean I've been on probably a dozen or two dozen walks in the last couple years um but was there just uh late fall so we will have a number of site visits as we walk through the notice of in time yeah I just want to make sure address absolutely will I just want to make sure that if I mean I saw it with my own eyes I've been there for 24 years you know I me I won't just be making it up I mean he stock piled 18 wheel fulls of dirt there and then one day knocked it all over and then brought some of that black stuff in that punched up and yeah right so we're not done taking a look at it we're just trying to go step by step okay it's just I've been just dealing with it since May you know what I mean to me it's like an easy to do Mark so so I'm just stepped into this and um as was said once they actually submit a notice of intent to do whatever it is they're planning on doing which I'm in a bit in the dark here to well I'm in the dark too because the planning board has something but it's not the same one that you have and the one you have is expired so there is really no notice of int right no it hasn't expired we still it's it's on hold because we had an enforcement order and AAS and desist and we've never even looked at their notice of intent we're not looking at that until they answer the other things we've asked them to do but we've had it for a while and that's on me I just haven't had an opportunity that's fine I can catch you up yeah and this is only a second day I only sat down with them and drove around a little bit yesterday for guy no so we have a motion in a second to continue yes right and a second all right so everybody good all in favor I all right we see the 28 yep y thank you you're welcome you're welcome all right what's next yeah I have yeah I have all his contact I got okay I'll all right thank yeah thank you thank you nine cross street um you thought there was continued you thought nine cross street no it's it's they had a season assist all right nine cross stre had a season assist until the deed restriction their order of conditions they're filling 4,989 ft or whatever so our peer reviewer wants an a deed restriction on that they can't fill anymore I mean maybe 63 ft or whatever so can I ask you something yeah you don't want me to finish telling the story okay no no you may not yeah no just let me get it out okay so they were in there working without having done and it said definitely that before work Begins the deed restriction needs to be recorded inl so they're in there working it was never recorded okay so I go and stop work they were wonderful it wasn't the owner it was the work people they were very good they stopped all right so then I talked to him to do the D restriction well you have to tell me how to do it well I'm not telling you how to do it if the peer review is telling you how to do it well my lawyer doesn't know how to do it so I was very nice I did not say you need another lawyer I just said you need to figure this out so I guess he called Jamie to look for some examples he got another lawyer and hence this uh is it here the deed restriction yes that went to Brandon it still didn't do what he asked for and now the money is run out and on Friday my Tom drove by and said Gee they're working on cross street so actually Mark as his first official Duty yesterday came with me and there they were working but I got all the Machinery in there everything so I told him I had called him first the owner he's in somewhere else out of the country so I said you're working in there you got to stop working so um we drove over we talked to them they had a big giant hole in the mock right where there's going to put the pipe in because they have to do a Crossing we crossing right there right so he said can I got two big tractor trailers of dirt coming can I fill this in before so I can get my Machinery out of there so we said yes stop after that after to you get all your stuff out and stop so um from there we talked I talked to Jamie and the bottom line is we got $500 from him to give to Brandon to continue peer reviewing it you know going back and forth how many times it comes back now for this deed restriction and Jamie has offered to broker the deal between the his lawyer and Brandon he's going to oversee that it gets done and we'll get the final thing oh W yes we shouldn't be approving any deed restriction it should be run by Town Council it's the simple deed it's a deed restriction it affects the property forever it's not something that's within our purview as a conservation a simple thing we have a peer reviewer who does it we have a peer reviewer in Brandon who's probably over legal document I disagree that's recorded at the registry and is attached to the property do it all the time all our ERS I've never approved a a deed restriction we've done deed restri since I've been on this conservation board all your orders of conditions are deed restrictions yeah they all get approved by every one of them those are all deers they all recorded on people's Deeds I don't feel comfortable with this it's a simple you can't F anymore it that's what's so silly about it it's a simple thing well we've done these restrictions before on Phil absolutely where absolutely could couldn't couldn't tell you from but I know but if it was a dollar you'd still be in violation it would still require you know what I'm saying all it's saying is he can't it's like it's part of his order of conditions he he can't fill he's done the maximum fill and this just is on his D that they can't fill anymore I don't think it's anything outside of wanting to spend Town Council money on that so this requires the board of selectman to sign off on too well that's why it's not right so I don't know what this is talking about or where we got it from that's what Brandon's saying it's just it shouldn't require B of Select right it shouldn't require the board of Select and that's why this is crazy that's why we got the money for it to go back to Brandon to look at it again it's way simpler than this and it's in the order of conditions already written out what he has to say that there has to be a a de restriction right but now you're approving just says but now you're approving a actual deed restriction which is a legal document without a lawyer any lawyer looking at this thing well the lawyer comes up with that it's not our job we tell them what they have to do law that represents us should be and then we send it by Brandon who Brandon's not a lawyer he's a professional he's not a professional lawyer we're not lawyers and and again our ords or conditions are legal documents they go to the reg I understand that I understand that and that's what the Conservation Commission is here to do not to develop deed restrictions for people no yeah we did we voted that he had to do a deed restriction that he had to do a deed restriction now he should have his lawyer draft a deed restriction it's already in his order of conditions that's understand I understand that he has to do a deed restriction okay however he's responsible to have his lawyer draft a deed restriction and honestly we should be having it reviewed by the town attorney I disagree we shouldn't be paying to do it he's responsible for paying yeah it should be a peer review but by an attorney not by Brandon no offense he's not a lawyer right but our Town Council isn't as far as I'm concerned isn't real well I'll tell you I'll tell you what if if this requires a selectman signature they're going to have it reviewed that's wrong well it's wrong here I know but that's why Brandon said I don't think it needs Brandon's review because we know what's supposed to be in it I agree that this needs to go to an attorney with the town and what we should give them is here are our order conditions please make sure that our order of conditions are reflected accordingly and that you feel comfortable on behalf of the Town having this attached to right their D that's going to run with the land forever I don't agree okay I'm only one vote I have no problem with it but I just think I don't sign any legal document that that affects my prop I don't think that this looks right so I think that we would reject this and it goes back to right you're going to send the lawyer obviously never isn't a conservation minded type lawyer but I don't think we send this to Brandon because I think it's a waste of his time and it's not his responsibility I think the new guy wants to say something I'm just I'm just um I'm trying to understand the difference between because essentially orders of conditions run with the property for Life yeah for life so unless it's taken off it can be taken off yeah once it's once the order conditions has whatever work was proposed has been done there's a cic compliance that goes in and can be removed from the deed the difference is this isn't about work that's being done this is limiting discharge and dredging and we're saying no more work so an order of condition my question is could you write an a a a condition that essentially says no no additional fill can be that's what that's what this is supposed to be but but that de the order of conditions that's what I'm trying to understand here well because is if you wrote the order of conditions and no I'll tell you the difference because they we want there to be no dredging even after the certificate of compliance is issued cor we to run with the property forever and them never to be able to fill anymore so once the certificate of compliance you can't you can't write a condition it's a that's a release of the order condition is memorialized we want we want a a Perpetual condition that's attached to the de I understand it I agree with it but then maybe in the future we should do that we've done that before you can put on your certificate of compliance the Perpetual condition is the no additional F so here's one way that this has come up in in my other okay gig yeah we're having people that one of the orders of conditions is to require a split rail fence to basically delineate you know you got to maintain it no touch Beyond and people are taking a couple people have taken those down the order they have certificates of compliance what's our recourse and it's something it's a it's a ongoing thing we're I'm trying to figure out but so it's to the point that can we mandate no you got to go put that back up it's in your orders of conditions versus I got my certificate of compliance I I anyhow it's a bad example I'm sorry I'm getting no it is a good example it's the question we do on storm water stuff we do um when we write the order of conditions and this condition will be perpetual and applied on the certificate of compliance well on our certificate of compliance we can put that all a certificate of compliance says is you've done everything you were supposed to do but you can put Perpetual conditions on there well it doesn't mean you can like if you have to delineate the wetlands with a fence it doesn't mean after after you have done that and got your certificate of compliance that you can take it down right right so it does run with with the property yeah and I think there been litigation that people have had to do remediation yeah put the back up yeah I don't know I I'm me trying to understand but this is a different animal I think yeah this is that's why Brandon said this isn't right this is like way more than that you need actually he said that the first time around that and they're not even saying the simple part about don't fill in the web yeah great great that 5,000 square foot limit on fill is not an additional 5,000 ft but 4,961 were approved by the order of condition so he could fill 39 more feet if he wanted to but um Nancy yes comment oh sorry Bob what you got a comment no sorry I was just druming you were just grumbling druming no I didn't I didn't have a question so what are we going to do this guy's got to stop work order he needs to be able to work so um all we have to do is have it reviewed by attorney to me not this by the because this isn't correct right he's going to give us the right one and so let's wait till we get see what we get I'm still not you guys can vote see what we get from who from the working with Jamie Jamie's done it probably how many Jamie shouldn't be involved in this either he's not a lawyer either this is legal document this is has to this should be reviewed before J giving him guidance as long as the lawyer is preparing it before we sign it as a board it should be reviewed by the town attorney or a an attorney who represents the board because what if there's a mistake what if what if it's a screw up and and this guy ends up with some kind of legal action against the town because we did something we weren't supposed to do how can it could it's m the law that he can't fill over 5,000 sare ft how about then why do we need the Deep restriction how about if we get some advice from D how about we just call a lawyer and have them look at the whatever whatever their final version this yeah why don't we get it back from why don't we ask the selectman if they can pay our attorney an hour to to look over this piece of paper before the board signs it run it by uh Nate and see what he says CU he likes to see approvals honestly and he would I agree with that think oh yeah and then run it by Town Council he is the enforcement guy I'm not saying by Town Council say let's see what we get back and talk about it again well we have to continue anyway because we don't have anything to review right now so let's uh not hit our heads against the W for right now we have something to look at because that is incorrect I don't know why it got passed out please I make a motion to uh continue 9 cross street till 1 12825 6:30 here at the police station second all in favor okay hold it I just want to know the location is this that piece of property where they just put in the new road there used to be a green house right there no it's off of Taunton Street nine cross street is the address it's off of Taunton Street remember the where the old shoe repair place used to be there's a cemetery down there okay all right so all in favor I know huh was that legal I'm not sure that's enough High eyes all right the osrd all I wanted to say is I try to send everybody the correction I made which was only one word on paths that John asked me to make so um you have a copy of that yes all right meeting minutes checked I refer to you having checked with the town clerk just to make sure this was legit I'd like to do all three of these meetings all at once make a motion that we accept I don't think we can I think we're supposed to I checked with the town FL oh is that what you just said okay yes make sure we can do do all three okay I'm sorry I want to approve of the lakew Conservation Commission meeting minutes as presented to us for the following dates September 10th 2024 September 24th 2024 and October 22nd 2004 second and you have gone over all of them yes as approved okay as presented to us second he our English teacher all right all in favor I I yes I made sure just in case okay so I check today now we have things to sign do we um well let's wait a minute uh the Wetland bylaw we just put that on there in case we're going to talk about it and we're not we've already talked about enough tonight so I need a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second uh second second all in favor I I