[Music] Good evening and welcome to the October 28th meeting of the Lakeville Conservation Commission. Um we are being recorded by Lakewam tonight. So I'd like to ask if anyone else is recording.
Seeing none, we'll start by introducing ourselves. >> I'm Mark Minton. I'm the agent. >> John Lelanc, >> Michelle Bashard, Nancy Yates, >> Joseph Chamberlain, >> William Aaros, >> Matthew Ferraro. >> Okay.
Um, first on the agenda is four court circle. It was uh opened at our last meeting. So, this is a continuence of a notice of intent. And I think we have somebody presenting. within.
>> Can you just say that nice and loud, please? >> Sure. Matt Leone with Schneiderman and Leon. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Tonight on behalf of uh Deborah and uh Richard Hans, I have some uh
Markifications. Sorry, my paperwork is out of order. One moment. >> Just check one last time. Otherwise, we'll wing it. Okay. Well, hey. Um,
see if I can say property is located on four circle. Um, it's to the east. The uh property is approximately 32,300 ft in total. And uh the applicant is uh
looking to upgrade and replace the existing septic system as well as um add a uh patio out the back um a tiered patio. Um they have been in I believe it was in March that they came in for an
RDA to do some home renovations and to build um existing deck here. Um so we're kind of building on to the project project expanded as we've gone in. We were in a couple weeks back for the UN RVA for the septic system design.
We have been um we were notified here that we needed to come back for an NLI because of the additional patios which we were unaware of at the time. Um the uh work will be the work for the septic system will be mainly outside of the 100 foot buffer zone which is shown here in
blue from the uh the edge of the pond. It's going to consist of basically the removal of the old system as needed uh and the um the uh the construction of the new um leeching field and the associated gradient piping that that is um associated with that system.
We will be adding a um denitrification system, a singular unit to the property. Um over here last we had a three-bedroom design. Uh they've done a walk through and have um decided that the uh bedroom of uh would be with the the room above
the uh the garage will be considered another bedroom. So we've moved up to a four bedroom design which uh pushed us into the u the dentrification uh system. Um the work within the buffer zone uh will be the you know the removal of the old tank and the um addition of the new
new septic tank as well as the piping and and grading that's associated with that. The patio is u going to be um a tiered patio. I do have a picture here. It's a little hard to kind of grasp it. I'll flip the plan over in a minute. Show you the a picture of what they're
planning to do here. There's going to be a 5 foot mulch bed. Um that's going to transition up to the uh patio level uh pretty much the main patio level which will then transition again up to where it'll meet in with the existing pool
deck is a concrete pool here intending to blend that all together. Um the bottom of the wall will match into the existing long grade. Um so there should not be any uh service beyond the limits of the wall except for any of the um the
uh the leveling material removal of the existing landscaping and saw and whatnot to create a stable base uh for the retaining wall system that will uh will accompany the wall. Um there will be in place a new silk fence. There was some silt fence that was associated with the
um project prior when we were doing the deck reconstruction. We will be adding a new um line of sil fence for patrol to keep any sediment or any any um anything from running into the pond as well as to act as a little bit of work barrier from
from the pond area. My memory serves I believe the closest point that the uh will be is about 56 ft um from the edge of the pond. And um I'll flip this plan over and I do have a hand out if anybody wants to. This is kind of what a
rendering that the architects have given us as to what the U project will look like. Again, there'll be a a mulch bed here that's going to have a 20 in rise, some stairs up to a uh excuse me, the main level of the patio. Um, another
couple steps up to meet that pool. total 36 in above the uh bed. There will also be a uh transition under the deck to get to the uh existing bulkhead entrance that's there and a marksman on
the site. I'm sure you've seen seen that. And then a couple steps up to the uh to the deck level. >> So, is a bulkhead under the deck? >> There will be a bulkhead under the deck, I believe. Or um I'm sorry, not under the deck, but um yes. Well, actually, it
will. will reach the stairs will be going down off of the patio and then under the deck. Do have a picture that may help clarify that for you. >> Is this a is it a walk out of this? >> Question there.
>> Okay. There's been a deck built above that area and then there'll be steps off of the patio going down into that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, Mark. Oh, you want >> Yeah, it's okay. >> You've been there. >> This this is this is another picture of what I had up if you want to pass it
around. You kind of have an idea of what the uh the patio will look like. >> Um Mark, since you've been the one that's been mostly involved with this. >> Um
yeah, I've been out now a couple times. Um, one one of my u you know I'd look at things like um the slope is pretty there's some slope but it's not from >> dramatic
>> yeah it doesn't seem dramatic to me some printed out u my other question was the original siltation that was out there that you already mentioned that >> yes >> you know it was it it needed to be retacked up but Um, so I was would have
suggested what you proposing to just run it along the the entire length of the the property there over to the I guess the u the pool. >> Yeah, we we created the turns up to the existing pool deck and to the um
proposing end of the fence there just to button up the whole site. There'll be no >> What's the patio? What are you using for the patio? >> I believe it's going to be pious favors. It'll be I'm assuming they're going to use a a radio rock or or a keystone block. Okay. >> For the for the walls, but the surface
of the patio itself. >> So, not too much excavation, just digging in. >> Correct. Just to create stable stable base, gravel underneath. >> Yeah. >> So, so with the mulch bed, I I I saw in the picture that there was some like granite blocks. Is that the containment
for that? >> That's going to be down below. That's going to be right between the >> Yes. It's actually going to raise up. That mulch bed is going to actually be about 20 inches above grade. >> Um, so there'll be a wall and it's filled with mulch and landscaping in between. >> So it's it's contained. >> Yes.
>> Is that ground level? >> Yeah. >> It'll be above there will be a wall that separates the lawn from that bed. Yeah. >> All right. That was another question. >> Anybody else? >> So for the for the main area, you're bringing in basically almost 40 inches
of soil, right? To get to the pavers to get to the height. uh depending on what the soil uh what the slope conditions are. Yeah, it's going to be there will be there will be material brought in and and there will be leveling done with existing material, but I'm assuming they're going to be stripping, you know,
top soil off and and what they what they have remaining will be um will need to be filled to to reach that that level. >> So, how are they going to transport that around the back there? My assumption is that everything's going to come in off of where the sub system is existing now
and I would phase I would phase the project to that. It would be would be difficult to navigate around the pool area. So I would think that they would want to get into the patio uh work and bring in their materials and um and then work their way out from from the sub system
and the driveways. And how far up do you run that the silk fence once it takes the corner down by >> it's showing in pink here goes from the uh the other. >> Yeah. How far? >> There's an existing chain link fence
here. >> So are you going to run something in front of that? Just if you're if you're trucking in material. >> Yes, it does. We do have a return here. Um if you feel they need to be extended, we we can do that as well. >> Yeah. If you're trucking in materials Yeah. and out from the driveway. The
tiltation needs to cover that that lower level there. So that leg that's just sticking out a little, just extend it down, >> right? >> Yes. >> Perfect. >> Okay. So, you're going to tighten this thing, right?
>> What's that? >> You the existing septic is right where the the new one's going. >> Uh the existing septic I I I drew here in red is approximately where it is. We're not 100% sure we where we have some swing ties and stuff, but I I couldn't say exactly, but that's
approximately where the the system is. We do have a location of the tank, which is just above the u the uh the proposed head. >> Are you guys approved through board health? >> Yes, we have. And you're confident in the efficacy of
your stuff stuff from washing away moments because you know the rain just loves fresh. >> Sorry. >> Fresh dirt. >> Yeah. >> You know how fast it can disappear with a good little sprinkle. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're going to have to
stay on top of it for sure. Anytime you're working on a slope like that near the waterfront, they have to stay on top of it. >> Mark, there's a lot of pitch in here. Looking at the photos, we have like the rim board right under the slider. 8 in. I'm trying to figure out how many is
bolted under there. Actually, how much dirt it's going to eat? You know what I mean? >> So, I'm the yard. >> Well, there's a deck and then the patio is going to be below at a lower level deck. Yes. >> But like the clearance like the bulkhead where it's going to land. You said the bulkhead goes under the patio. I'm
trying to deck. Under the deck. >> Yeah. And that's existing already. They're just maintaining the access, >> right? And and it shows like the stairs because right now you would actually go down the stairs in the front going the bulk and now you're going to have a deck that comes out. It's almost like you're
almost never going to have that second 20in uh mulch bed. You know what I mean? If you look at the rim board, you have the deck that's coming out. You see the chalk line snaps across the rim board. >> Yes. >> You're going to be already on top of the door. Now your steps come down. goes
over to the bulkhead. >> I think they're going to be come coming in from the from the patio >> from the front down. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, this is this here is actually showing it going down. >> Yes. And then that little platform there that's actually from the patio up to the
deck >> and you guys are going to set drainage inside, right? So, this will flow out. >> I would assume where's that drain going to be going up >> that I don't I don't have an answer. >> It's going to be going into that m >> and that's why I'm looking at it doesn't look going to be enough to even get the
mulch bed in front. >> Yeah, I have not been given any guidance on what the contractor is planning on doing for that. I do know it's an existing well down there now. I don't know if they have existing existing pipe going out at this point. I don't I don't know. Yeah, that's what if it's going
down, you're going to have like a pocket and you're going to have a little drainage. Yeah. >> And from where the rim board is placed right now, it doesn't look like you're going to end up having enough mulch bed. Like you're calling out 20 inches of mulch, 20 inches for the patio, the pavers, and then you got your deck on top. >> You look at the ripple, it's right
above. So, I'm like, it's almost like you're going to have the porch, the pavers, the drainage right on the front of the lawn. Well, you know, or above like where the where the mulch bed is. The mulch bed is actually going to be on the grate of the of the prop the land. >> Yeah, they have it designed up about 20
inches at this point from it is coming it is coming out quite a bit from it is coming out uh what is it 21 ft away from the out and then down slope from the from the house. >> Yeah, my concern was just if it were draining, it's not going to be draining >> far enough to Yeah, you can see it on
the photo. You see where the chalk line is? >> Yeah, >> you guys look at that. >> Yeah, I do I I I know what you're saying. I do I do believe that there that that >> that the transition as they as you go down I don't know if I have another photo that shows it. >> I just want to see I can see the main back the property.
>> I mean that might help a little bit. >> I think we're coming out quite quite a ways away from >> Okay. That's why I wanted I didn't see this here how it gra down. It only shows the front side. I was like okay this lands almost flat. So you couldn't get your mulch bed plus your
>> papers. Okay. >> Okay. John >> everybody. >> Uh just to notice at least four times in response to questions you have said. I assume that
on different questions the panel has asked you uh you obviously are going to make sure that proper past procedures are used in stabilizing these all the work that's going on there right? >> Absolutely. Yes. >> And this and we're we're talking you
want to get started this season obviously. >> Yes. Time as it is. Yes. >> Okay. All right. So this is a time essential thing. Okay. So, I need a motion to close the hearing. >> So, move. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. I need a motion to issue an
order of conditions with our standard order of conditions um with an e extra extend that silk felt line. And we need a new plan showing the revision of the silk fence line on it before we can issue the order.
And I assume you have you the um uh agent will be out to inspect the society. >> Yeah, that's that's included in the standard order of conditions probably number one. >> Once it's in, give them a call. >> Okay, one more move. >> Second >> discussion. >> Yes. >> What's the percentage of imperial
impervious coverage on this? >> I would I would have to calculated. I don't have that off the top of my head. >> Can you get it recalculated and added to the revised plan? >> I can, please. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Okay. So, got a motion in a second.
>> Yes. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay, >> thank you. >> Good luck. Just call the office. >> Yeah. set. >> Okay, next up, 52 Clear Pawn Road.
one at the last meeting. >> I have a couple. >> They were in the basket. >> Yeah, >> but yeah, the big one. But the one we we received at the last >> at the 92325
meeting >> this is all right from the last meeting or from >> from 923. >> This was received on October 24 >> this is a small this so we have to vote to accept
plan >> um No, you got it in you got it in on Thursday. I don't know what this I mean, we've had it for a while. I just we got one at the last meeting and we get one at the new meeting. Just for comparison,
we printed out >> what we got at the last meeting and what we got this meeting. >> We got this on Monday. >> Yeah, but these are signed and sealed on different dates. plan revised October 23rd. >> This one says September
>> September 23rd. >> This is this new one. >> Yeah. >> Was that we just got revid was dated October 23rd. The previous one that was submitted as part of >> our hearing was dated September 23rd. >> Okay. So yes, I think we
>> So motion to accept the new plan. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> You're up. >> Madam chairman, how we doing today, everyone? >> So at the last meeting, we talked about uh the plan itself, but then uh the
commission was asking for rest wetland restoration construction sequence and the plan and notes in this evening, all that. So that's what we added on to this so that you would know exactly when and how things were going to happen outside. Then looking at the plan, I talked about
the uh shrubs being 20 foot on center. uh what types of plants are we can we are available to use, how we're going to go over removing the uh wood chips and re you know relocating them somewhere else or obviously just get them out of
there and uh then a seed note. One thing I want to note on the seeding note is uh I I think we had talked about well I talked with the about doing the seed in like probably like May or June. It's not going to happen right away because
nothing's going to grow right now. So, basically what we could do is get everything uh removed, situated, and then be ready to seed. The trees can go in a little earlier, but that was one of the things that we thought would be best to wait. And one thing I was going to ask the
board, so he's talk the environ is talking about a 20 foot on center for these plants that are going to go in there. Uh, but I was going to ask the board is if it ends up being a tree there, do we can we just skip that one? Go to the, you know what I mean? We don't want to be taking down any trees just to make this thing happen.
If that makes any sense. The trees are pretty well established there. >> All right. So, before we make any kind of a determination on that, I think we need to hear from Mark spent considerable time looking at this and there's several other issues that we
need to talk about before we talk about whether or not we're going to Y >> allow that. >> So, and I don't know if anybody else has had a chance, but um so looking at the plan, the most recent one we got last
meeting 10 is that 10 2013, I'm sorry. Okay. Or 24 >> 102. >> Okay. So, >> received it. >> So, um it's not clear. So, who did the the wetland delineation there? Was that Steve? >> Steve. Yes. So, okay. And then there's
um and so there's the test pits. So, that that was from Steve. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, um and then another question just uh looking at the the site the plan. It appears that there's some wood chips that
outside of the restoration line there. That would be to the west. Um >> yeah, I saw that. I was I don't think that's supposed to be there. I think >> this stuff. >> I think that was the surveyor did put that in there as well. >> I saw that as well. The two wood chips top and bottom there.
>> Uh why he put that there, I'm not sure. But if there are any there, they're going to be removed anyways. >> Okay. Yeah, because at least to the to the left or to the west. Correct. >> That's that looks like it's wetland. >> Absolutely is. Um,
one one thing that I and I also I use GIS and I I didn't I didn't have shape files for for for this plan, but looking at the the the site on on GIS on the town. I tried to calculate the area that
had been disturbed and I I come up with >> Oh, so you have here 24 >> Yeah. >> 500. So I came up with slightly higher number but it was just almost back of the envelope you know using the tool there. So that that I talked to D about
that because that raises a couple regulatory questions which one the um basically anything over 5,000 square feet and these were some preliminary I I had a call with D and
talked to them. Um, we can't, my understanding is the commission can't authorize work above the 5,000 ft square foot limit.
And given the the total area, it it throws it into an ecological restoration. So, and so I I would think Steve Schmile would be familiar with that or wetland scientist or uh but that's in there's a
whole other set of requirements that are in the act. It's 10 uh 310 CMR 1013 and 1014. >> Why don't we give up a copy of this? >> Okay. Yeah, I can give you Yeah, I just I wrote up some notes. I was doing this
this afternoon. So, that that's one That's >> So can I can I ask a quick question? >> Sure. Sure. >> So if if we cannot permit anything over 5,000 square feet and it kicks it up into this ecological restoration
project, who who oversees that D? >> We do. We do. >> But but that's that's the response to that. We've we've exceeded the trigger of 5,000 square feet. And again, I'm just re talking to D. But we've exceeded
the 5,000 square ft. So you couldn't do any require any replication restoration but the way the the act handles that is it creates this it has this other category which is an ecological restoration >> that we still
>> yeah we still oversee and we would issue ultimately once we have a plan that uh it would be an ecological restoration plan and there's a there's a lot in here >> right >> to take a look at a lot conditions and
I'm um once we get our ecological restoration plan then you could submit the notice of intent um and we would issue >> so does this >> orders of condition >> so this doesn't satisfy
>> no >> John I just want to put this into um a little simpler box if I might >> No that's fine I I I over complicated >> if you go back no it's fine if you go go back to the restoration plan >> and what we asked him this is the step
of um the restoration plan. My first question is I don't see Steve Shme anywhere on this. Who did the restoration plan on the notes? >> Under the notes number three, >> wetlands were delineated by Steve, >> right? The wetlands were, but the
restoration plan is >> Oh, this was all this was all Steve. >> There's no there's no documentation. >> No written plan that actually outlines. >> Well, that's why we put instead of piece of paper, we put it here. >> I think we need it from a professional wetland scientist. So, I think we need a
report from Steve Schmeal. This could come from, for all I know, from a land surveyor. There's not anything on here that says that. And if the commission will go back to the restoration plan, once the restoration plan is approved by the Lakeville Conservation Commission, a
notice of intent will be filed to condition the work. So, we're at the stage of saying it this is an appropriate restoration plan because he'll still need a notice of intent. But on the notice of intent, you check the box that says ecological
restoration. And then he will have to follow all of what he's pointing out in the regulations. But prior to that, some of those things need to be included in the restoration plan out of the reg out of the
regulations. >> So should we go right to an NOI and do it all? >> No, I think we need a restoration plan. We can't go right to it because I I don't see I don't know about anybody else, but I don't see anything from Steve here.
>> It sort of feels like we skipped a step like Steve went out and dug his test pits and then said, "Okay, here's the delineation of the wetlands >> and then he gave us all this information >> and then drew and then drew a picture and this is what we're going to do." >> No, no, Steve didn't drop the picture of the survey. Steve did all the notes on it. So, I can show you an email where he
submitted them to the survey to put it in there. We requested that he submit an actual written report to us delineating specifically what his findings were and then a follow in in follow up to those findings an appropriate restoration plan. >> So you want him to sign this sheet
saying he's okay with it. >> No to see a report from him I would think. And I also think the plan needs to get fixed because I don't know Mark you said that you thought it was like 30,000 square feet. This is 24, but you're not including those wood chips on
this area out here. So that restor this should be the restoration lines in the wrong place. >> Right. And he mentioned that and I did take a note of that. That those wood chips shouldn't say that right there. I don't know why >> that should be the line of restoration around.
>> Right. >> So that might put the 245 up to >> No. No. The wood chips don't go beyond that restoration line. He put the the survey put the note of that. >> And why is it saying wood chips there? >> Because he shouldn't have put it there. >> Okay. >> So So the significance of the area is is
it just it it exceeds >> either way it's over 5,000. >> Right. Right. So >> So 24 or if it's 31, I'm doing an arrow cursor. So it exceeds that >> which kicks it into following the requirements for an ecological restoration. And actually I I wrote the
sections on here too. So >> before we vote to accept the restoration >> you should probably have if you're going to have do that look at that because there may be other things
>> sure >> need that are required >> I saw you want to get it all the same >> and you don't have Mark in here until like almost like at the end is he in here somewhere else where he should be the first person there and he should be Step nine
>> after it's done >> following completion of restoration. >> No, no, no. I think Mark needs to be completed I mean included in steps along the way. So I I think from my opinion and and would love to
hear what everybody else feels like is we would like a more formal written document from Steve that says I conducted the test pits. the findings with a visual of here is what I
determined to be the wetlands area that was impacted and as a result of those findings here is my recommended restoration plan. >> No, I understand that >> in a in a standalone document and then have this this is the companion to that
>> um and have it updated to correctly reflect. >> Well, that's I was asked at the last meeting to have it put on the plan. I wasn't asked any more of that. Well, I think the best thing is why don't we just go to an NLI and because all I'm trying to do is is respond to the enforcement order.
>> Yeah, part of the enforcement order was to have a restoration plan. So, >> and that's it here, but it's just on the format you want, but why not just give the right >> stop? We're saying this is not it's not going to help you to argue because we're going to this saying that this is not
what we asked for. I don't know. Does everybody agree we need something from Steve Schmile who is a professional wetland scientist because it's not reflected. He might well have done this but this is just on a plan. We would like his report with his >> PWS. Yeah, he is.
>> So I think at the very least you need to have him stamp this. >> Does he have a stamp? >> I mean if he's the >> I don't think they have stamps. >> I think we asked for a report. >> This is just a survey, right? No, I only did what I thought was asked was to have
everything put on this plan, these notes that >> this is a survey. It's not a restoration plan. You have you have detailed notes saying how you going to do it, but this is a survey and the guy who's certifying this plan is saying that it's been surveyed correctly. >> That's all he said. >> Oh, yeah. Correct.
>> So, we need something from Steve Schmile saying this is the restoration plan and and this is what needs to be done and >> address the regulations, >> right? and and and rather than waste any more time, have
them have them look at this. >> I agree. So, versus coming back here with a letter, let me just do this ecological restoration plan with Steve and just do it all at once. I mean, no sense coming back and giving you a letter that this is that. Why not just go right down that road and
>> we we need to close out the enforcement order and we need that restoration plan in order to do that before the submission of the NLI. >> You sure? I don't I would think an NOI would cover it all. >> We put terms on the enforcement order.
So >> yeah, >> this went to Dor went to D >> and I I just think that we need to have a better understanding and have
something from a restoration order should be from a >> well scientist. >> Yeah. Well, scientists otherwise I suppose another thing we could do is say we want a peer review. Is this adequate? Which it already seems it's not because through our agent that
there's a lot of regulations that need to be addressed. >> Well, there was another issue too, right? With National Heritage. >> You Yeah. So, >> yeah, we didn't get to that yet. I have a question. >> Yeah. I'm open to that page right here. Yeah.
>> So, the restoration plan I I I I'm happy to talk to Steve or send these sections to you so you can look at them. There's a lot of stuff here. Um,
basically the condition basically the plan for restoration is already what you have to have in that plan is in here. So you would use this as I would think is a template. It's kind of written and I don't not everything not every condition
is applicable, but I'm sure Steve could work through it. I'm happy to talk to Steve. >> Um I, you know, I I don't think Steve will have questions about it, but he can. >> Um but whether the cart or the horse, it's
almost like you're going to have to come up with a restoration plan >> consistent with an ecological restoration. So just so I understand. So what we have here on the left, you don't consider restoration you do because he he could
document this sign and get that to you. That's fine. But are you going to ask for more? I think I think eventually we just went down two different roads now that we know that this is a diff this is a different situation. >> It's not it's the same thing once a restoration plan is approved. We're just saying we don't think this is a proper
>> restoration plan. It could be paraphrase from what we don't know what Steve We don't have anything from Steve what he said. >> Yeah. So I can I can get that to the agent. had a report that you had to give to get this on the plan. So, we'd like to see the report. >> I I think for
I think for me there's a couple things. I think what what's on the plan um you know things like you know notifying the con conservation commission and the agent almost uh when the work is done instead of working up front. Um there's
the issue of natural heritage. Um there should be some uh with a restoration plan there should be milestones you know there should almost be a report a time time frame and uh whether it should be written and also show up on the site
plan in my opinion. Um that said when I was I'm looking at this and I'm looking at the amount of area that was disturbed that's what took me to we can't it's above this threshold. So, I I've been talking with D, called them a couple
times, and they're like, >> "Yeah, the the route you the the route you got to go is an ecological restoration, which then if you go there's some specific conditions. I don't know if I'm making sense, but I would say I would say there's some
deficiencies with with that restoration plan." And >> so, this feels like an executive timeline of the restoration because it says clearly that it's the construction And this is great to have just for for the record. This is great to have on this >> and that's what he gave me. And then
>> but it's not an an actual summary of the findings of the um evaluation of the land that was disturbed and then a written report of the plan, but it's a great executive summary, like I said, to have on this this plan. We just need
that one little bit more to actually have him document his findings and his plans >> and his and his plans. >> Yeah. I mean, if it's okay with the commission, I'll just have I'll make sure Steve contacts your agent direct and they figure it out together.
>> That would make the most sense, I think. >> Yes. >> And and so just one other point or observation. So you're going to it's going to be receded. It go I I haven't looked at historical images.
I don't know if it's is it was it forced at wetlands? Was it >> I don't think anybody knows >> you can go back pretty far and I don't know you anyhow just a little bit more spec specificity on you know the planting itself. That's that's typical
in in at least a replication plan. It's like we're going to plant this whether it's high bush blueberries, wheat pepper, whatever it is that they they tend to be pretty specific in in the planting schedule. But >> yeah, no, I think it's I think it would
be a lot easier if you and and Steve called you and work this through. That way there's no misunderstanding on my part of what you're asking. And and then after that, we go into an NOI >> that will check the box of um ecological
restoration. It's on the regular notice of intent is ecological restoration and it has we even have a specific order of conditions to give out of the regulations. >> Okay. >> And the confusion is we really I haven't seen this. I don't think any of us have
seen an ecological restoration. >> I've never heard of it before. >> Right. >> So it's kind of a unique kind of a thing and it's a lot of area has been impacted. So, I think it's a little difficult for all of us trying to figure
how to do it right. >> But while I'm here, as you can see on this, this house uh is going to need a septic system at some point. So, I ha I asked the uh Darren Misus if he could tell the surveyor where where he's proposing to do the leech field and the
board can at least look at that, see if that's okay with that idea. I I don't think we can think about septic system until we >> Well, I just want you to notice it on the plan that we're trying to stay 100t away from >> proposed. We notice proposed force may not go on the side
>> to get it far enough away from any of the wetlands. >> But I think on the um the restoration plan that really doesn't have to do with that that we would have to say that >> that would be a separate submitt all all
together >> in the future. It would be part of the NOI. >> No, your NOI is a ecological restoration and regular NOI would be for the septic system. I think you're trying to skip steps and I just don't think we can. >> I don't think we can think about
>> I'm just learning. I'm not trying to skip anything. I'm just trying to get this thing. I didn't make this mess. Okay. >> And I'm trying to fix >> No, you didn't. And you're trying to clean it up. We get that part. I get that part. But we also have to follow our procedures and >> we have to go one step at a time. Can he
file two NOIs at the same time? One for echological and one for the regular for that line because really just the force main line >> and the septic is out that the legion field would be outside >> right >> would be outside the 100 foot >> way over outside 100 foot
>> and we can predicate approval of the septic NOI based off of acceptance and completion of the restoration work >> just to to you know so he doesn't lose any more time. Yeah, because I have to go to water health with something as well so that they can look at this. >> But we can't give you an unofficial off
the record like, "Oh, hey, wink wink. That looks good." >> No, but you can definitely tell me if you don't like it because then I can say I want to do it. I mean, that's that's okay, too. But I think All right. So, that's best step have Steve contact you because this is all new today coming up >> and uh we'll see what comes up next
meeting. >> And and then what was the issue with the national It's in the national heritage. >> Yeah. The um yeah, a good chunk of it is estimated habitat for rare species which some requires >> Easter box turtles is what it is out
here. >> So make sure you you have to permanent with them too with national heritage. They have to >> I'll let Steve know that so you can guide me on that one too. >> Okay. So Wendy, would you like to continue to
>> question? >> Oh, of course. minor thing. It's it's the English tree. Excuse that. Okay. In three different in three different places, we see the term conch co, which I assume is concrete. Okay. There's a concrete drive and there's a No, there's
a puminous concrete drive. There's a concrete drive and a concrete pad. I assume that we're talking the exact same material. Just >> Yeah. >> Three different ways. >> Yeah. The concrete pad's just a small because it is just the pads. Look at that. But yeah, the concrete I don't know why they just
>> Okay, just >> Oh, no. I think the bit concrete drive is asphalt. >> Tuminous concrete. >> Well, that's patuminous concrete. So that's that's got >> oil and >> Yeah, that's and then the concrete is in the garage. Yes. >> I don't know why they use that termin and instead of call it asphalt.
>> Okay. Asphalt because asphalt was we looked at asphalt as an entirely different thing. >> Yes. Yep. I don't know why they do that. So, our meeting dates coming up are which is later on on the whatever but is
um one in November and one in December from what I'm looking >> two in November. But we had decided last time, but we didn't make it clear to Lori. I think she had us on a schedule for two, but we had decided I thought at the last meeting we were only going to have one because one's the other one's
Thanksgiving week and we had decided we were just going to do one, >> but I don't think Laura got the Thanksgiving. >> So, we can fix that. But our next meeting is a um Thursday, >> not a Tuesday. >> No, that's fine. And Steve already has this. All I got to do is just have printed get it to you. But he's gonna
have to make changes obviously for the >> November 13th. >> November 13th. All right. >> And what day of the week is that? >> Thursday. >> So somebody want to make a >> not going to handle that. >> Are we all done with questions? >> Can can I just ask one last question? So
for that meeting on Thursday, Steve will have already talked with your agent and come up with the restoration plan. >> I don't think we need to do anything more with this plan itself at this point. Just the document we need. It would be great to have a revised plan with it
>> corrected and affirmed by Steve what the actual restoration area is. Remove the the confusing wood chips lines just to clean it up so that somebody doesn't come back and look at it and say, "Well, it says this here and >> there's disparity between the two. So,
if we could have it cleaned up." >> Do you want me to sign have him sign this plan, >> Steve? >> Yeah. >> I don't think it that's necessary. as long as they're as long as they're >> have his report to attach to it >> and you could just say in the notes reference, you know, the above reference. >> I'll have him reference the plan he's
used in in his notes. >> That would be lovely if they referenced each other. Yeah. >> Um but a cleaned up plan would be ideal to have for the next meeting as well, please. >> I would wait on the cleaned up plan in case something out of Steve's report needs to add something over here. I don't see the agent.
>> Steve will add whatever he needs on here. It'll come the same time and in his report he'll reference the revised date of this plan. >> Okay. >> And then keep the board of health in mind and whatever you got to do there. Yeah. We're we're trying to do perks sometime week or next week, but it's
going to be way out in the back there. >> All right. So motion >> motion to continue till November 13th at 6:30 at the police station. >> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> Thank you guys. >> All right. >> Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. So
confusing. >> Hey, I'm new at this. >> So, it's the 11:25 meeting that we're now going to have. >> So, let's take You want to >> take that out of order and just get it done with that? We're only going to have I need a motion, but we're only going to
have one meeting in November. >> So, moved. Second all favor. >> All right. So 11:25 December and one in December also. Well, they've been pretty short. >> Okay. Back up to Anybody have anything
else to say about the wetland bylaw? >> Not at the moment. >> Yes. >> Um what what about uh enforcement? Is that come under us being able to enforce and find someone? I know we've been talking about that. So, would that come under this
>> under the wet by? Yeah, it would. It would be >> right now. We can't. >> We can't. Nobody can in town. Well, it's Mass General Law 21. >> I don't know exactly. I'd have to look at it, but that is added in that you enforcement would be part of the wel and
bylaw that we would have the ability >> and Lakeville is in the minority in terms of having such legislation. What are the rough figures out? >> You mean for wetland bylaws? >> Yeah. >> Um, in Massachusetts is 192 towns that
have a wetland bylaw out of 351. >> Yep. >> All right. What would it take for us to Why don't we have the power to enforce anything? >> Because we have So, we have to We haven't adopted as as the town the town has not adopted the Wetlands Protection
Act or ratified it. That by itself would give us the enforcement authority. Okay. >> And then if we so chose once we've got that, we'd have we'd consider that our baseline bylaw that we could add anything that we thought was specific or appropriate. Um so we'd have to put that
on the town warrant for the next town meeting or when we were ready to have it and present our bylaw, our proposed bylaw and our argument for for them. >> But I think we excuse me. I think we got it back pretty clearly that the
>> not in favor of a bylaw. >> No. >> Oh, sorry. >> That it's very clear that we don't have to ratify the well and protection act. And there was a letter that got sent out if I sent it to went to Andrew and he checked into it and we do not have it's
state law. Towns do not have to ratify the wellland protection act. >> Then why can't we find now? >> Yeah. Why is what why >> because we don't have the wetland protection act doesn't include chapter that chapter 21D is it that
>> enforcement we have to rely on D. >> Yeah. So what most towns do to get started is use the Wetlands Protection Act, adopt that and use that as the base of their bylaw and that because then it's already written and since you already have to follow that by state
law, um it's easy to adopt that as a baseline because it's already the law. It's just by adopting it locally as serving as the think of it as the skeleton of our of our bylaw that then gives us the local enforcement authority
and then you can choose to add on you would add on some language probably initially that this is what we go under but it's a state law and we fall under it with the conservation act which is uh chapter 40
8C I think it is where a conservation commission when in 1971 was it? >> Goes it goes even further back than that. I think >> we've already accepted that. When we appointed a conservation commission back in 1971, that went into you are
accepting the state law. State law >> and once we accept the state law, you know, we can enforce the state law, we we cannot lessen the state law, >> right? >> But we have So what you're saying is in
71 when when we adopted it adopted a commission in this town, we agreed the the weather That's why. Yeah. >> So why so why do we need to make it part of a bylaw? >> Right. >> We already have >> we need a local bylaw to strengthen our
protection. >> But that's so we're not going to be specifically asking the town to ratify the wetland the wetlands act. So now we're talking about >> we're already subject to it, >> right? But there is language probably in
it that oh your commission functions under chapter 131 section 40 and additionally there's a list of things that you want to add on to >> so extra protection for our town because
if you look at the map >> and I brought it >> there's a lot of water in Lakeville. I know I think I think Mark showed this on his phone at the last meeting. I don't know >> but >> by us >> you can see how we sit.
>> Oh yeah. >> I think we saw this. >> Yeah. Well, meetings ago >> on a phone but not an actual map of shows how we stick out. >> So by accepting the state's law that means we do have the power of
enforcement. No, >> no, no, >> no. >> So, you need to have you need to have a bylaw to to do that. >> Yes. >> What bylaw? Any bylaw or just >> we draft it as long as the town accepts >> the local wetland bylaw, which is another thing that is handed out if we're talking about it. I think Lori put
it in everybody's packet that I um actually went to human resources and asked about now that um our budget, everybody's budget, education is taken out of everybody's budget and goes to HR. So, I went to Lacy and asked her
about a training to have somebody come in from MACC or some professional people come in and talk to us about why wetland bylaw is important and answer all these kind of questions from someone that's a professional instead of us all just
kicking it around. Um, her reply was, "Nancy, you should have this at the library and you should invite all the boards." So everybody sees >> the importance of it.
So >> So to the I don't mean to cut you off. >> No. So to the point of of what Joe said, bylaws enable towns to enact >> or it can there's other reasons, but um
you can act you can have additional protections that don't necessarily exist in the act. >> Intermittent streams just for I know I'm just throwing that one out there. verbal rules, potential verbal rules. >> Um they they can be more restrictive, they
can't be less restrictive in terms of enforcement. My understanding is so we can issue anybody any member of the conservation commission can issue an enforcement order or >> which we've done but there's no teeth to it. >> Right.
>> Right. And at that point, that's where we have to rely on D. If somebody, you know, we know you cut down a whole bunch of trees along the stream here, we want to come in and look at it. No, I'm not going to give you access to my property. Okay. It's America. You got to go get an
administrative warrant. Yeah. Yeah. There's a point where um D, >> but the perfect example to that >> is having to depend on D. And as we've seen with Bedford Street. I've called the EP. I've
called the emergency response when we had pictures of the oil spill. Um, and they were supposed to put the strike team on it. Repeatedly called D about 160 Bedford Street and it continues to be a blight on our town and it continues to have all kinds of things going on
over there that are environmentally >> not good. >> Yeah. on top of everything else. No, you know, >> another aspect of it, I think different ha towns have different fee schedules. I don't know exactly how they implement
it, but um separate from what's you know the states u schedule for fees. I don't I think some towns use it for that. I don't know. >> Essentially, the generation of the commission created a supervisory watch
board where People come and they get permitted and they're regulated and watched over, but it's a dog on a leash. Like John said, there's there's no teeth in our enforcement power. We can say, "Stop it. Don't do it again. Stop it. Don't do it again." But we can't really
disincentivize them other than you know being good citizens um and reporting them up to the state which given the current um level to which they're overtasked and understaffed I guess you would say and that it's happening everywhere we can't
rely on them and so we would like to >> you know take care of ourselves. I will >> and and having a a bylaw even if it's bare minimum of hey this is already existing law and we're getting the teeth to enforce existing law is how we start to have that ability. Does that make
sense? >> Yeah, it does. Like this is one spot now and you know D's busy as anything. Yeah. >> You get one or two other spots to pick up a lakefield all of a sudden they're so far behind already. Is this going to snowball and just is ever going to get >> I think we saw with Captain's Way. I
think she's um when we went for denial on Captain's Way and we met with D on site and she said well we're like when will we get an answer and she's like 75 days but good luck with luck with 75 days because it's going out a lot longer than that because they have 88 Southeast
Regional Office has 88 cities and towns that they're looking at >> and many of which are experiencing rapid growth. Yeah, >> as an example from some years back at one time if you had a logo making a presentation to us make you
know file for something and was reluctant to do what we want him to do. We always gave them a choice. Well, you can work with us or you can work with the state agency that has finding authority, excuse me, finding authority and they go, "Oh, okay." But now they
seem to be reluctant to use their finding authority. I mean D is a chronically underfunded agency. You would think they'd be wanting to, you know, >> collect a few bucks here, there, and about the place. >> So, um was thinking when I asked about
this training is that it's a a place to start and it wouldn't hurt for all the boards because other boards make decisions too like the planning board and the zoning board of appeals make >> and it beats driving to Holy Cross, >> right? And it's specific. The training is called uh
>> a rent rent a professional or rent a >> that does not sound >> that doesn't sound professional. Rent >> rent an expert. And one of the main things is how to write pass and implement local bylaws. So that was
>> Oh, so it's not specific to the wetland bylaw. >> No. Well, you're gonna >> it's offered by MAC. >> Tell them what you want. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's what they had said when I called MATC is tell us what you exactly what you want. And I don't
there's no date or anything. I mean, >> towns have storm water bylaws. >> Oh, yeah. >> Which are more stringent >> that's going to be on our next agenda because we have a water bylaw. >> Well, here at planning other towns, it's
with it's with We have a storm water bylaw coming up. What do you mean >> at town meeting? >> We do. >> Presented by who? >> Um I think it might be an annual but it's coming yet >> and it involves us. So I'm going to put it on the next agenda. I don't want to
talk about it till it's on the agenda, >> but I'm going to put on the next agenda and hopefully we'll have some kind of a draft I can pass out everybody so that we can >> What's our next meeting? The next town meeting is November >> fourth
>> 12th >> November 12th >> that's for the right >> Wednesday the vote for >> Yeah that's >> no it's a it's a fall town meeting on there right
>> is is there a a separate meeting for old >> or is it a or is it a >> I think it has to be both I think old to go to It's part of it. >> Part of it goes there and then it goes to the polls. >> Yeah. There's a whole separate committee for Old Colony, too, because it splits
>> it splits counties. >> Yeah. So, is usually on like a Tuesday, but it's a holiday, so they got moved to the 12th, which is why we got moved to the 13th. >> Okay. Okay. Are we good? >> Yeah.
>> All right. Possible reorganization. I got to say I don't know where that came from. Possible reorganization. I had to miss the last meeting because I was at a selectman's meeting trying to answer the questions about our warrant article. Um, so I wasn't here. So I
really don't know what that's all about. I've been uh I don't think we've ever had any kind of a policy about reorganization. I know Emryo was chairman for about 10 years. But don't most boards in town vote every year to reorganize? Even if they don't
reorganize, they take a vote. >> Right. But the thing is, we never have had a policy like that. I don't think the zoning board does. If it's an elected position, yes, you have to reorganize after the election. We are
all appointed. So, I mean, if you wanted to set a policy, which I don't really understand why, but if the board decided they wanted to set a policy, it probably should be after where the reappoints in July, not what, the third week in
November, October, whatever month it is. Yeah, this came up from I know it was it was um came from the select board that the committees were supposed to reorgance. Um I don't know how the communication
goes out um or spoken to but just that it >> I have no problem with but I think you're right. I think it makes sense to do it after the appointees when there's a brand new board or however new however many I don't think it's a bad thing to change
up, you know, leadership and blood if somebody wants to do. I have one desire, but if somebody else wants to do it, I don't have any problem with taking a vote. And >> I would think historically it would be
good like Joe and I have the oldest members, not oldest members, but longest >> senior members, >> longest sitting members on and um I would think I would like to be on for a period of time before that would happen because there's a lot of stuff there's a
lot of historical stuff that I even go to Joe sometime of things that I don't remember but I mean I've been on for 25 years so I remember >> the biggies um >> well I wouldn't I wouldn't feel comfortable voting on anything like this
anyway >> agreed >> that's just my opinion >> speak of that do we what happened to M tonight >> he gotaughaugh Oh, okay. >> I don't I think we have pretty close to a full board. I think that we should um
vote to put it to if we're going to set a new policy, then we should vote to put it to when we're reappointed in July. >> We're all reappointed on a different time for different cycles. So, >> different years, >> but it's reappoint. Yeah, but Yeah,
right. We are. But the reappoints are July. >> Always in July. Yeah, >> madam. >> Yeah, >> but isn't it already a policy with the town? >> The her commission, we have a vote every year, >> right? >> Doesn't change, but you vote every year anyway.
>> Are you guys Are you guys elected or appointed? >> Appointed. >> You're appointed. Same situation. >> I don't think it's a bad >> policy even if nothing changes. >> Yeah, nothing always changes. It's just >> the opportunities there if somebody's interested. So, I think that we should
get some clarity on if there is a town policy or just general guidance and wait until we do have a full a full board because I think Mark should have a say as well. >> I already talked to the town clerk and there's not a the policy is for elected boards. It's not for the other ones. And
tell you the truth, >> I'm going to tell you, I'd like to know right now because I'm the chairman. I've been the chairman just a little over a year. Um, I don't mind doing it, but it makes me very uncomfortable that all of a sudden
it comes from somewhere out of the blue outside that uh they're talking about reappoints. And I don't mind talking about that. >> No, I don't I don't know that they're talking about reappoints. I think they're talking about having the board vote reorganiz.
>> I would like to know right now. I don't I feel like this is hanging over my head and I would like a vote to either reaffirm that I'm going to be chairman and we'll talk about the policy in July or later on or not.
I've done a lot of work. We didn't have and I'm sorry I'm going to advocate for myself because we didn't have an agent for way over six months and I've worked really hard since Mark came. He's new to this area and I've worked hard with him and I think you would like to I'd like
to see a vote where you re reaffirm that I will be the chairman at least until July >> cuz I'm Why would I be doing all this work if you want somebody else for a chairman? I really think you ought to do that. He's the newest member. He's been to what two meetings. I don't think it
matters whether he's here or not. We have a quorum and I would like a vote to reaffirm that I'm chairman. I don't want to be sitting on eggshells thinking I'm gonna get voted out. So, I don't think that's too much to ask. >> Make a motion. >> Well, let me >> I'm the chairman. Somebody else should
make a motion. >> Chairman can make a motion. But I'll tell you that I brought it up at the last meeting and it was brought up not to vote you out. It was brought up to have a discussion because it was I had heard from several folks and asked about why our board
hadn't reorganized >> because we never did. You never organized with your dad. He was here and a chairman for 15 years. >> I I don't I was chairman for 10 years. >> Honestly though, >> this was >> I How long have I been on?
>> A really long time. >> But I remember taking a vote. >> I remember reorganized at least once. >> Yeah, we did. When Bob asked me to start >> No, no, no. Before that, way way back when I first went on the board. >> I've been here. It was just a a a quick
Yeah. motion to keep the chairman the one, you know. >> All right. So, excuse me. >> And I do believe it's just that once a year. So, I mean, you can't be ousted before July. >> Yes, I can. How? >> I could be ousted tonight. >> We can reorgan anytime. >> Yeah. >> Really? It's not a yearly thing. So,
>> whereas the three the three of us here are brand spanking new. So we could have come in here and just change the whole >> Well, you could make a motion, >> but the rest of the board would have to agree with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But if we had we had one more new
person, >> then all a sudden the board could flip just like that. >> But the chair is is does a lot a lot of work, but can't act independent of the rest of the board. So reorganizing is an administrative piece. There's a lot that
goes behind it, but the chairman can't just act independent of the board. on hearings or >> yeah everything comes back before the board. >> So and there's a lot of things that could fall through the cracks. Believe me, we've done a service to the people
or I feel I have when I helped and did a lot of work when we had we didn't have an agent to make sure that people got hurt in a timely manner, things didn't c fall through the cracks. It still happens with Mark and I working together. You know, it almost takes two
eyes sometimes that things don't fall through the cracks. People don't have to be continued a hundred times if we make sure all the work is done. So, I would like to make a motion that I remain chairman until at least July 31st of 2026 and then you can do whatever you want.
>> I'll second that. >> Does somebody else need to make a motion besides the chair? >> I'll I'll make the motion. >> Okay, I'll second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> I think we should roll call. Okay. Roll call vote. >> LeBlanc I
>> Bushard abstain. >> Yates I. >> Chamberlain. I >> fin. >> I. >> Thank you. That's all. I don't want to be on pins and needles. I was just feeling very maybe threatened because
where it came from all of a sudden to me is kind of and I know I've been pushing the wet one bylaw and I know there's probably But chair doesn't remove you from I would just like to to say that chair because you made it sound like if you
were removed from chair you were removed from the board and not important and that would never be the case. >> Oh no. I still have a mouse. I'm thinking come on. All right. So let's have a motion to adjurnn. >> I've made enough motions. So moved. Let >> somebody else. All in favor. Second.
>> All in favor? I. Thank you.