All right. Good evening and welcome to the December 16th meeting of the Lakeville Conservation Commission. Um, we are being recorded by Lake Cam. I would like to ask if anybody else is recording. Seeing no one, we will go around like we
always do and introduce ourselves. >> I'm Mark Minton. I'm the agent. >> John Leblanc, >> Michelle Bishar, Nancy Yates, >> Joseph Chamberlain, Mark Knox, >> Matthew William, >> Matthew Ferraro. >> All right, we're good to go. Our first
on the agenda is 69 Kingman Street, which is a request for a certificate of compliance. Mark, you're up. Um, so there was a um
I provided a site visit summary. I went out there uh on last week and um some photos um and seems that this site um has been
stabilized and um so my recommendation it seemed like it had fulfilled the u orders of conditions. So my recommendation would be to issue the
coc It looks a lot different, Mark. If uh when I looked at the pictures, I realized this is when it was like your first or second day that we did a site visit out here, did we? >> Oh, was that the same spot? Oh, really? It looked really different.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It didn't look that good at the time. >> Yeah, it was. >> That was great. >> Yeah, it was thick. I mean, it was turf. It was, you know, It's growing in the grass is all growing in >> anybody.
>> If there's no other discussion, I would have a motion. >> I once again my English teacher. This is a legal document and the applicant's last name is spelled two different ways.
number two and number four. We're human. We look at it and I can assume it's for the air. But the first one says follow us the air and you know 20 years down the line some robot that controls all us humans will probably say
does not compute. >> All right. So >> are we looking at the right one? >> 69 Kingland. >> Yeah. >> I'm just >> Oh, all right. I'm just >> two two and four. Yeah. >> Again, I blame my English teacher. >> Yeah. Not on the
>> catch. We've seen it happen 25 years from now. >> Certificate of compliance. You lived in >> Oh, >> so number two is incorrect. >> All right. >> We we assume that, >> right? >> Because we know that
>> I've written that >> if that's the way it's done later. See if I can >> have it correctly. >> Yeah, >> I took it off the site plan. So, >> my bad. So, >> um maybe we can just uh are we signing
the back form? But maybe you can make a note to check that when the actual certificate of compliance goes out that it's spelled correctly >> and that it's recorded correctly. >> Yeah. My apologies.
>> No, you can make your motion, I guess. >> I move to issue a certificate of compliance for 69 Kingman Street uh for the order of conditions SE1 192-892. uh with the spelling correction noted uh
to be changed on the final documents. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay. Next on the agenda is 19 hilltop acres which is a request for determination. I
will read the notice of public hearing. According to the provisions of Mass General Laws chapter 131, section 40 of the Wetlands Protection Act, there will be a hearing on a request for determination of applicability by James Riley to decommission the existing
septic system and install a new septic system within a 100 foot buffer to a bank bordering on Long Pawn. The location of the project is 19 Hilltop Acres Drive, Lakeville. Map 38, block 4,
lot six. The public hearing will be held on Tuesday, December 16th at 6:30 p.m. at the Lakeville Council on Aging, one deer crossing, Lakeville. Motion to open the hearing. >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> I Good evening everyone. Will Connelly, Zena Consulting Engineers. Um, so the site is 19. You slide it back like a veget. Maybe you want to move the mic over a little bit there.
>> Yeah, I can just sit there. >> Um, so the site is bordered by Long Pond to the east. Um, we're proposing an upgrade to a failed septic system. The only work within the buffer zone is um tying in the pipe from the house to the
septic tank. Um, and then the installation of a liner between the leeching field and the house. Um, we didn't encounter any ground water out there. We did the park test. So, we don't anticipate any watering uh would be necessary. Um, we've provided silt
sock for erosion control on both sides of the house. So, I think that's about it. If there's any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. >> Guys, quick quick question, Nancy. >> Yeah, please. It's hard to tell on our plan, Will. Uh, and obviously the house
takes up as a good buffer between the pond and the excavation, but what's the slope out there? Is it relatively flat? It looks like there's a little bit out in front, but >> in front of the house it's fairly flat. Um, I would say maybe like a I don't know 15
to one slope. I mean, it's not >> almost like 10 feet. Maybe 69 here and 59 here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It drops off pretty >> hard when it gets past the house, but >> past the house, but everything is fairly flat.
>> Yeah. 69 up to the house. >> I'm good. >> Anybody else? Okay, looks like We need a motion for a negative three with one condition. Um, oh, motion to close the hearing.
>> So, >> okay. All in favor? >> I Okay. Um, I would say a negative determination with one condition that the agent be called to check the siltation period. >> So, move
>> I'll second the entire motion to >> do the whole thing in one instead of two. >> RDA Okay. >> For the negative3. >> Okay. With one condition. Y. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you all for your time.
>> Thank you. >> Keep them that simple. >> Okay. I need to interject right here. Previously on the agenda before it was revised was a um RDA for 137 Hemlock Shore Road. Um
and I've moved it to January because I think the entire commission needs to do a site visit. >> I don't know if everybody got that first agenda. >> I didn't know if everybody got the first agenda just
So the change might have been made for before it went in posted. Yeah. >> Okay. >> What's it 132 or 137? >> 137. >> 137. It's to uh it's a RDA to install a drain. >> So
>> like a catch basin drain for picking up >> parking lot street runoff, driveway runoff. >> It's a dirt road down to Long Pond, >> but it would be a private project. Right. But we can schedule a site visit. It's not on the agenda,
>> but it was on the original. I thought everybody got to >> So, you wanted to put it on the agenda for the first meeting of January. Yes. And prior to that, you'd like to schedule a site visit. >> So, >> there's erosion going on. I went out and took a look. I mean, there's some
erosion. And once you get to the bank, it's actually it's it's cutting quite a bit. So, >> it's an idea. >> Good to have some some other eyes. And I thought it was the I think we need to do a site visit for the commission to everybody >> arrange the date time.
>> Yep. So probably after the holiday. Is that good with everyone? >> Preferably not in a snowstorm. >> Depends on the day. >> Okay. Well, does anybody have a bad day that's bad? >> Let's >> Every day could be bad.
>> Yeah. Let's email him. >> Just try to give us as much as >> All right. >> Next meeting is the 14th. Is that correct? >> The 13th. >> 13th. Tuesday. >> 13. >> Between Christmas and New Year. Okay. >> Good amount of time. >> All right. So, Lori will send out an email. >> Okay.
>> It's not on our agendas, >> right? >> What's works best with everybody? Morning or evenings? >> The week between Christmas and New Year, I'll be gone. >> Okay. >> So, after New Year's. >> After New Year. Well, you guys it's getting dark on
>> Yeah. You know, >> be less productive, I think, to look at it in low light. >> Um, >> I don't know. Just throw some dates out and we'll find a date. >> Maybe send an email with actual full
details about the site and >> look at the fiveday forecast for the weather and pick a day. >> Okay. Lori will >> okay let us know >> coordinator >> all right thank you sorry I thought that this had gone out
>> our next is beach tree >> or is 52 clear >> 52 understand >> okay 52 clear pawn road this was a request to continue to
January 13th mark is going to pass about what we got for a verbal. It's moving along. We don't have a plan yet, but we have a good verbal that came in, which is what we asked for originally. So, we're getting what we asked for originally.
The accompanying plan we will get before our next meeting. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully the correct time before our next meeting. >> And they won't do any work till we get >> No, >> they can't. They We've already decided they're not doing any work. Are we going to discuss and need this or are we just
making a vote to continue that 52 clear? >> Yeah, we will and we'll leave it on the table. Everybody can pick it up so they have a hard copy. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, this is from Steve Shme. Yes. >> And he's been working on it and it came in on Friday. So, >> got it. >> Sounds good. I I'll make a motion to
continue the hearing for 52 Clear Pond Road until our January 13th meeting at 6:30 p.m. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay. Beach Tree Drive. This was a cease
and desist. And Mark, you want to talk to this? Um so it's um involves um the issue of uh a rightway access down to the pond between two beach trees and
I'm sorry >> it is two beach is that? Yeah 24 hick >> 24 hick. So there's a about a right way down the pond there. Um it's
come up as whether or not u that some type of pruning this to pruning or uh to maintain or to clear out the vegetation there. So, I guess um we got a call. I don't know, Nancy, you
kind of took that that but there was um we got a call that it it had flared up again and and so we the ceaseed assist was issued. I went down there and I think there's a site visit flown after that
happened and you can take a look. Um >> can I ask you a question regarding your site visit? Yep. >> Right up, Mark. Um, in your notes, uh, you use the term clearing and pruning and, and I I'll back this up by a couple
years ago, we did do a cease and desist because some soil was disturbed and runoff was diverted in that area. Uh with the clearing term, was there any soil disturbance or is it basically just
so it doesn't sound like it's necessary to give a cease and desist because it would be allowed. >> Um >> yeah, there there's an exemption there, but within 50 ft of the pond, I guess it
was um and it wasn't a whole lot of Since the last time I've been down there, you can see that they they've taken out, you know, some branches and some other stuff to open up a pathway. Um, there was no soil disturbance
>> to keep a path an existing pathway open. >> Uh, when the first time I saw it, uh, it was it was pretty overgrown. Again, I'm going on what, uh, speaking to residents, uh, down there that there's a
um the dispute is about whether or not there's an existing rightway there and whether or not so that's that's >> and that's not that's not our purview >> right >> at all >> right >> and he made that very clear >> and so so the other issue is what you're
bringing up Mark that is it yeah is it jurisdictional um or not and and so within the pond I you know the reading of the act that I read there's It's one of the exemptions, but then I think there's it also there's a caveat
where within 50 feet of a pond or a resource area that that you need to at least come in and and speak to the conservation commission. So to be honest, there's a little um lack of clarity in that aspect, but the actual
dispute whether it's a an there's an access point there. We have nothing to do with trespass or not. >> Thanks. >> No. No. We made it very clear that it's a civil matter and it's the extent of the clearing. Is it just a pruning or we
just said we don't really know what's being done. How about let's stop and decide what's happening or you know what the size of the brush is, how close to the pond it is. I mean, you do if it's more than vista pruning, which it's hard
to tell, and within 50 ft of the pond, you would need a permit. It doesn't matter who >> a permit, >> a like a like an RDA, >> you know, is a tree coming down. We didn't know really what was happening.
It was basically, let's stop and review what's really happening there and then make a decision whether they need to file an RDA or not. Isn't this an area that from time to time this happens, some stuff starts growing up and it gets cut down.
>> I think we've dealt with this before. >> Um, when things start to get uprooted is when it becomes really affecting things, right? >> Because then you you're doing earth disturbance >> and we didn't really know what was happening. Mark went and did the visit,
but at that >> was reacting. >> We thought the safe thing was to say just stop. Y >> and figure out what's happening and go from there. But we made it very clear >> both of us actually that >> you know the whose property or whatever
is a civil matter that's not our >> our call. Our call only is to permit if it needs to be permitted or if it's really just vista pruning we'd be all set. I think we have more to it than that but when we have a chance to talk more than happy to explain what started
it. on that. >> So, I'm I'm I guess I'd just like to listen at this point, but Okay. If somebody would like to speak and you'd like to allow that, that might be beneficial. >> Yes. And that's why we put it on so we
can figure out what's happening and what our role is in this at the moment. >> Okay. Come up and sit and identify yourself. >> I'm Tom Loft. >> You have to come right up here. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. I'm Tom Loftus. Uh we have the beach
property down there and uh we had uh secured surveying services to find out what our property is down there so that the surveyors could have access to the property. I did have to cut some of the
branches. No soil was taken. And you can go and see that there was >> just you represent the HOA. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> The one that has the beat. So we have two HOAs. >> So this is Huckleberry Perry. Null. >> Yeah.
>> Is what you Okay. >> So we went there so that they could we could find out what our property was so we could be able to cut that. >> So you guys were the ones who just approve. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> If that's using the correct term. so that they could be able to go through
there because on if you go straight through on the left hand side they couldn't go through there because lo and behold Keith has actually built on our property. Now I don't know if he's had
gone through the got permission from the commission to build on there or not. I guess you have to check to see. I got pictures which I can show you. >> If you can leave them with Mark, that might be a good thing. >> It's on my computer.
>> Yeah, I would recommend you email him then. So, we have them. >> Okay, I can do that. >> I have your card. Yeah, >> I'll give you my email. >> And as far as I know, those those stakes are still there. But that's they can't for them to be able to go. They would
have to go through his property, which they end up doing. So that's for them to have access there. The only other access was on the neighbor's property. So I think it's just kind of funny that they're going to talk about a few
branches that were cut to be able to give them access. And then I removed the the branches that were cut down, took them to my property so there would be no refu left. and uh John Lens the uh president of the
the bigger homeowners association he was as far as I was concerned and he was concerned I removed all that refu so all I do is just so people could walk so they could walk through there that's what was done it was done on the day that the surveyors were coming so they
could because the whole thing was back and forth is okay well what's really your property okay so we paid $1,200 to be able I then get our property survey, >> which makes sense. >> And do you have that survey?
>> Yeah. >> Can you send that to Mark also? >> I don't. All we have is the the um the they put the stakes in. I'm not sure what you're looking for from a plan >> a plan >> a plan that shows the extent of your problem. >> When they put stakes,
>> it should show the written surveillance report. >> All right. I can ask. >> It should also show the easement if there is one. >> Any easements? Well, if you're crossing somebody else's land, >> yeah, >> you have we asked that when that's we thought we were doing the right thing.
We talked with with John about that, you know, get it surveyed. That's what we did. >> Okay. >> We thought we were doing the right thing. >> Yeah. I I don't think that if I think that if what he's saying is the extent of the work and it was just to allow surveyors access. I don't think that
that's like we're banning perk tests because you didn't apply. >> No, we we don't do that. We don't we allow that because it's the first step in the process of applying. >> But in order to go on somebody else's property without permission, there has to be an easement there.
>> We didn't even know it was going to be on somebody else's property. We thought it was going to be on our property. He was talking about >> surprise. >> All right. But we we received a complaint that something was going on, which is why we said stop until we figure out if it's something that
>> Well, this isn't this isn't the place to I'll speak to. >> Yeah. Go ahead. I'd like to hear this. >> All right. Well, okay. Hold it one at a time. One at a time. Yeah. >> Well, no, he needs to come up and sit. So, you need to go down.
>> I may be back up again. And there's also a a pipe that was down the street that's channeling water down towards this >> towards this precious wetlands. And and I don't think this has been brought before the the commission either
>> this chilling water. Has it been? >> Yes, it was on the last one actually. >> Really? >> He doesn't even know half the stuff he's talking about. >> No. >> All right, let's do one. Excuse me. >> Let's do one at a time. Now it's your turn to go sit back down. you spoke. Now we'll
do the next person as we're trying to get a picture of this. This is why I thought everybody needs to be and it needs to come before the commission so we can figure out what's going on. >> I agree. Um my name is Keith Ricefelder. I'm at four Beach Street. Okay.
>> So that's the two beach trees in between four beach and 24 >> Hickory >> Hickory Lane. >> Yes. So, this has been before the commission a bunch of times. I'm I surprised usually when somebody else
shows up and then they, you know, they don't really understand what was going on. I don't know what your processes are when you go back to, you know, previous, you know, the history of what's been going on here. >> We could if there's a filing. If there was a filing and you had a permit, we
can go back and look that up. >> Okay. Yeah. So, again, I didn't I don't know what the process is. Um but so yeah, for the most part this has been going on for years and we did say, you know, he's coming in from the street, which comes in probably I don't know,
it's it's marked out now, but probably 15 feet in from the street. And you know, every time he's just comes out with a hatchet, he's been he's had assist seasoned assist multiple times from here since 2019.
It takes me to call the cops every time I see him out there with a machete chopping out whatever he's doing and then it comes here that we've been doing this for years now. So, this is nothing new. Uh when he's saying I built the my property on his land, I moved here in
2018. So, whatever when I moved there, you know, the fences were in, everything was in. I didn't build anything on anybody's property. what he had staked out. Clearly, me and my neighbors over here, we're going to do our own survey as well to see, you
know, what's real, what's not, um, and kind of go from there. But again, this that's a civil matter. This has nothing to do with conservation. We we you guys made that clear. Um, so my thing is, you know, again, no matter what you guys tell him, he's still there with his
machete chopping out, you know, whenever he wants, whenever he wants, puts his top down, clears it away so nobody can see it. But over the years now, this >> that's not true. >> Over the over the years, this path continues to get bigger and bigger. And
when he's saying, you know, we get pictures with him with chainsaws and a shovel. What? You're not disturbing soil with with that. So my whole thing is what is, you know, what is the intent?
What what's he actually looking to do? And whatever he's granted to do, we got to make sure that that's what he's doing. because I see someone like him coming in clearing out only what he's supposed to and then while he's
there every time clearing out more and more and more. So there's got to be some, you know, some type of regulation on what he's doing, what's the intent, you know, because I don't think anybody knows that right now. Like if he's looking to clear a path just to get to
the water is that >> no chairman, please. >> Right. So that all this stuff needs to be uncovered. >> Can I get clarification? You own four? >> I own four. Yes. >> And you sir, you own which one? >> We have the beach area there.
>> Where's the beach area? >> Between their property and >> is that 24 Hickory Lane? >> Yes. >> Who owns two? >> So two is what the easement is. You know, I remember one guy uh on your board, probably on the videos,
>> was saying, you know, he had access to an easement as well, but with Kate Conservation Land, there was nothing he can do with it. That's that was part of this meeting years ago. Um, you know, that was he was sitting up here as one of you guys talking about that. So,
again, at the end of the day, there's really no we don't know what he's looking to do. Um, and whatever that is there, you know, there's there's wildlife in there. There's, you know, you guys, you your board. I've had, you
know, I'm not sure some of you don't look familiar, but you guys came down one year and you you saw the stream coming from the street >> from the street down into the pond. I mean, that is wetlands that feeding the pond. the pipe that he's talking about.
Somebody put in a little pipe like this coming from a huge pipe thinking that that was going to like divert the water over off of the street. That had nothing to do with me. I was at that meeting though where I think he thought it had something to do with me. It had nothing
to do with me. And basically that little pipe was useless. The water still comes in the street and really you could take that pipe out. I was actually a little bit >> disturbed myself when they put that pipe in because I didn't see the need. >> Who wants two? >> So two belongs to the association their
association. >> Yes. >> And that's basically >> and again the last time >> that's where where he's been clearing on two >> on two. Yeah. >> And so >> so this is the big question. The strip of two is the activity that's in front of
>> Right. That's that's right. The wetlands, the you know, it's it's all overgrown. I know he has a picture of back probably over 25 years ago where it was clear before >> before my time. Throughout the years, this has grown to be what it is now. If
you guys um but when he says, "Oh, he he cleared that for the surveyor coming in." Well, he was always he was clearing it for his neighbors to come see as well. And that got into a big, you know, argument
because I come out and I said, "Tom, what are you doing here? You you're supposed to go to conservation before you do anything." And he flipped out with a machete. I had to call the cops. I mean, it's >> Really? >> I'm sorry. >> You'll have your turn. You will have
your turn. Please don't make me have you leave. >> You want your turn? You have the police report too if he's going to deny it. >> All right. So, >> okay. So, basically, is there any other questions that you ask? >> Why should we be involved in this? >> Correct. Is that the civil matter?
>> So, how conservation involvement was I got a call u from Tom Keith. Nice to meet you. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Got a call from Tom um must be I don't know six months ago. I can give you a date. went down to take a look. The
question was about vista pruning, but it became pretty clear there was a dispute about access to to the pond and I I was pretty clear that um I couldn't comment on on that
issue. It's a civil matter. So uh in terms of the clearing of the vegetation whether it's vista pruning um that's kind of where it was left. So um again I
very clear that um well it was very clear that there is a dispute and it's not resolved. So >> so if I may is there a dispute on whether the association owns two beach? No, it's it's what they can do.
>> Okay. I I just wanted to know >> that piece of land. >> So, the property >> Wait a minute. Now you're over there talking again. >> You want me to go up? >> To answer John's question. >> Yeah. >> Yes, please. >> So, there's no dispute on on the is
association owning this piece of land. >> Uh, yes. It's it's a matter of like he like he said, he just had it staked out. Yep. Right. So, we're going to do our own survey, >> verify the line, >> and then again, where he's trying to come in from the street, you're looking
at about 10 to 15 ft that he's trying to clear >> on the front end there. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And that's that's that's our road. And that's what John keeps trying to tell them like until you get and so now even if the stakes were accurate, it's still it's showing that it's way in from where
he's trying to connect. Again, I suggest if you guys didn't mind taking another stroll down there too at some point, >> whatever is, you know, and I'll bring you in my property and I'll show you whatever you need to see.
>> Got it. >> Okay. >> If I may ask, uh, so is there's no disturbance in the ground at all? It's just up from you >> at this point. No, because we come in and we shut it down. want to call the cops and get him out of there. >> Has there been previous any disturbance in the ground?
>> Again, every time that he's come there, we call the cops and get him out of there. So, no, everything you'll see is intact, overgrown, and you know, so no. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. Okay.
>> Go ahead. >> So, so you can see I took um just a couple pictures this last time in this side and you can That's that's the access point. That's where the road is curving around incoming beach trees. And
so so there there was some vegetation taken out since the last time I was there. Um it it clearing is probably a misnomer I think. Um and there was no soil disturbance. That kind of gives you some
idea at least what it looks like right now. >> Nancy, would you mind asking to come back out. >> Yes. >> So, Mr. Loft, it sounds like you're making efforts to I think the last time we were out for the site visit, I had mentioned you really need to prove your
right to access, your right to ownership or whatever to 2B. It sounds like you may have done that. I I think before you do much more, you want to take your survey and
at least apply for an RDA to do any more clearing. >> And RDA could just explain what that entails. And >> so it's the conservation commission's >> part of you.
>> It it is it it you'd be coming to us. >> Yeah. for your for the approval to do to cut a path to the pond or whatever you want to do to access that >> uh >> and to maintain it inside of 100 ft. >> Okay.
>> The the RDA that those three letters stand for request for determination of applicability. >> Yeah. >> And you're going to if you choose to do that, you're going to sit down with Mark, maybe you're going to fill out some paperwork. You're going to clearly
spell out what you want to do there. If it's just cut a path, be able to maintain a path, whatever that is. >> You like to have access, is there a path there now? >> There >> if you like briars.
>> Yeah, I'm just going to say there's a lot of brier on that. >> There is, but we like to besides the usage, we like to be able then to have access to it. So, how can I have access if it's allowed to kind of grow and grow? And >> essentially, what that does is gives you
permission to do work within the 100 ft of the protected area, which is >> that's our of the pond. >> It's it's a beach, so we like to have access so families can bring their children to the beach. That's what we'd like to protected. when you're within
100 feet of of the water, you're in a protected area. So, you have to get permission. Um, so by filing the RDA, you come before us, you get permit. So, you review your plans with us and we give you guidelines under which to
operate. Then everything is documented what your plan is to protect the area, to protect the species that might be there, the plants, the animals, etc. >> Right? >> Um, and and everything is documented that you've got permission, approval,
um, replication if you're going to cause any damage by removing anything that's indigenous to the area. >> Okay. >> And the size of your pathway would be important, too, so that we're giving you permission to make that pathway in and then we'll know what that is and it's
not going to >> grow every year. >> Grow every year. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. The the width of the beach is probably window >> 65 ft >> is it? Yes. >> Well, I'm just looking at it. We have a plan within our packet that has some
some dimensioned lines. >> So, it's rough. That's off of the assessor's website, >> but we generally understand what you're trying to do. We just want you to permit it properly. >> Sure. >> So, then it's you're not going through this.
>> However, I I I do think it's in both of your best interest to define that property line. >> Correct. and see where your access starts >> because you don't have a right to go on somebody else's property to even to access your own property.
>> I'd have to say though with there's been some revisionist history with uh my uh cutting down property and and that sort of thing is different. Keith has come out gone in my face.
>> Okay, but just like just so you know that that's We just want to move forward in a positive fashion. >> Yeah. Okay. We just >> And I have witnesses that would >> The proper way to do this is to to find the property line. You stay on your land. You stay on your land. >> Yeah. >> And then come before us and say this is
what we want to do. >> I think a visit would be I think a good thing to do if if that's >> we would just like to make it be a positive experience for everybody moving forward that put the past behind everybody. everyone
>> understand what we're trying to get at that this is your land, this is their land. >> You can access it from here now and then here's your plan moving forward. Here's what's approved and here's what everybody agreed to that you're going to do and you'll abide by it. Um, and it's what's in the best interest of everyone
so that you can access your beach. Everyone knows what that's going to go forward. It's the best for the plan. It's what we all agree to and we'll monitor it and we'll know that no one's going on each other's property. It's within >> we're supervising it as is within our
purview. And if you've had it surveyed, you should be able to get a plan, >> right? >> Yeah. It should all be staked. And if you hired a surveyor, you should ask for a plan. So you have the plan and then you put that with your um request for determination
>> and then you can like draw on there where you want. >> If if it was a notice of intent, we need an engineered plan for sure. You know, for an RDA, >> you have engineers a survey coming also. >> We are and they are as well on on their side. Yeah, we're both going to be
>> make sure they all represent actually what's there. >> Correct. Because if you >> All right. Now we're talking from the audience again. All right. >> Sorry. >> He did it. His fault. >> Do you want to ask this other party if they want to speak?
>> Okay. So, you're all set. Okay. Does anybody else want to talk? Yeah, I will. >> Okay, just come up to the microphone and identify yourself, please. >> I'm Mindy Fuller. I'm new to this. We just um this is our first year at 24
Hickory Lane. So, um we don't know much about the past. We were introduced to this to I think you were in the driveway with >> Yeah. >> Um and our daughter was there with grandkids and she was a little intimidated. he was upset and you know
so but from what we understand I don't think we dispute that there is property there that belongs to this association my um question is how did we get to this point why wasn't it maintained all these years and now that it hasn't been it is
a wet land and the growth that's there is older than either one of us living >> which is why they would have to apply for So, but it just um like he mentioned, you know, you got called six months ago, but there was already a
cease and desist and asked to have it surveyed prior to that and that hadn't been done yet. So, that just was done last week, the um survey. So, I think just to be sure that we're clear going forward that it's going to be done
correctly and >> that that's our efforts. >> Yeah, >> that's our effort. That's why we had you come had everybody come here so we could figure out what was going on and made it clear that the the boundary lines and everything are a civil matter. But when
you're working within 100 ft of the pond >> you need a permit unless it's vister pruning and vister pruning the definition on that is maybe a little clip here and a little clip there. >> Yeah, which to to me after being there this year seems like it's more than that. And I mean, honestly, our first season there, we're like, whoa, it's
like a river going through there. It's really quite wet there. And so, I think it's changed, unfortunately, from the original pictures that he has from so many years ago and how it got to this point, why, you know, the owners haven't maintained it all along, why not? Will
they continue to, what are the parameters, and who would oversee that? So, >> okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I think we have everything that we need. >> Question. Is there going to be three
surveys? >> Sounds like it. >> Clarify. Okay. >> Okay. All right. So, >> ask for a little guidance from commission members. So, I'm hearing and
I agree that the the extent of the property should be resolved. He's got a survey. >> So if we have one survey, so >> does all we need is the survey for what he wants to do is what we need.
>> He he needs to his plan. >> Right. With with >> a plan of what he wants to do on there, >> right? But we >> that's the only thing we have we have jurisdiction over. >> Right. Right. >> Whether they get it trusted his surveyors, right? Or you get your own
surveyors. >> That's my question. And if there's a conflict between the surveys, that's a civil matter. Doesn't come in, >> right? >> Respectfully, they should each have their own surveys on their property, but to Beach Tree is responsible for
submitting the survey that the HOA owns to Beach Tree and the plan that for the RDA that's associated filing for that. That's all that we have. >> And you shouldn't do anything until you bring that plan to us. >> Okay?
>> Then you'll have a permit. So, if there's any problem, you will have a permit from us of what you're going to be allowed to do. >> Okay? >> And we'll meet and review and we'll go from there >> and we'll take it step by step as a
group from there. And when that's filed, it will be publicly posted >> and you'll all it will be publicly posted and you'll all be notified as um a letters and you'll be welcome to come
and comment and >> and see the plan. >> Well, they won't be notified as if it's an RDA. >> I have to come up there and ask a question. >> Oh, they won't be notified, but they'll see the posting of it. But >> so you'll regarding this. So, please if
if we get um if we get ours surveyed too, right? And my property seems to extend to where I really believe it is. >> Yep. >> What happens there? >> You need to go to court. >> Okay. Yeah. So, what happens with your decision? Because if he's going to be basing it on
>> Well, we won't be able to make a decision until the property lines are surveyed, >> civily taken care of. That's That was my question. >> Yep. Um, >> yeah, we'll fold our >> If he's trying to access through what you think is your property, >> right?
>> And you have a and you have a surveyor that says it is and he has a surveyor that says it isn't, then you guys need to go to court and get that rectified before we can make any decision. >> That that's that was my question. Okay. Thank you. >> Y >> Okay,
we're going to move on. >> Thank you all for coming this one. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, now we have next is 19 Shore Avenue which is another cease and desist. I was happy. >> Well, you see why we just didn't stop
till they came here. >> Correct. >> I locked you out of your truck. >> That was one of the times that was gone. You were dumping. >> Yeah, but on the We were farther up the hill on the corner. >> Down a couple times since there just to see what >> So 19 shore a
>> 19. >> Nobody in the audience. >> Yeah, >> but uh yeah, because they were uh I think the property owners are in Florida. >> They're in Florida. >> So um >> they went for Thanksgiving and never came back. But I don't know. I'm just missing the season to
>> we we sent a cease to see us. If you look at the pictures, >> I see them all over the Bobcat. >> Yeah, the homemade one. I >> That wasn't >> Yeah, >> there's an actual one. This one's was
sent to the property owners >> down in Florida. We haven't heard back from anything from I've talked to >> Have you been back by the site >> a couple times? >> No other work's been done? >> No other work. Um I actually asked
um the surveyor who there's a well you can look at the picture that trench comes right up onto the well that was an NOI >> but I'd have to find the date exactly it's been a while I spoke to him that
>> um and I asked him there was some straw who >> um Bob Lucy okay um and I asked And um well, I told I told Bob that my recommendation is to file a notice of
intent after the fact. And there's the straw waddles that you you see in the picture. I asked them to pull those all the way up to where the the trench was. There's a trench. There was gravel down in there, >> cinder blocks, plum line going. >> Uh I asked them pull that straw waddle
up and then >> done that. >> They did it. Somebody did it. And add another layer. So there's fencing as well. So to try to, you know, control as much sitation as as possible, but I
have not um I haven't heard anything back from from >> record. >> Uh yeah, we got a call. I um I think the warrior took the call. I was on I was on my way in, so it was
pretty early. but haven't heard anything. I I I'm happy to follow up with Bob and see if he's heard anything at all, but it's and and to your question, Mark, I've been down there a couple times just
because I just curious anything. >> So, you made it clear that they can't do any more work until they file >> and the site's been stabilized. >> Yeah. And they pulled the bobcat out. Yeah, the Bobcat was gone. >> Do they have any other um material
stockpile on site? >> There's some gravel on >> additional additional cinder block anywhere else, too. >> I didn't see any more cinder block. Um >> yeah, I saw that pile of gravel, but since they pulled the bobcat, I didn't know if they'd pulled anything else from
on site or if it was just that. >> All I saw was the gravel. And you can you can see that I kind of uh that the disturbance of the lawn itself was about 12 15 ft something like that.
>> You can kind of see it. They tore up the lawn pretty good. There was there was a uh an existing retaining wall there, but it been completely pulled out. You can kind of see in a couple pictures it was sitting on the the yard, you know what was left
of it. So, it's not really a repair at this point. They're put down. Yeah, it so we have this information. The the the non-applicant property owner hasn't
responded in the agenda. We've got discussion, a possible vote. Is there action we can take tonight? >> I mean, it's great. You're just agreeing to cease and dis cease and desist stay in place until >> we're sitting and waiting until they get
home. What if you were want to ratify? Did I sign that or did you sign that? >> I signed that one. >> All right. So, we could ratify the cease and desist and as long as no work's being done. I mean, what else can we do to make them file? I assume they're in Florida and maybe
contractor here could uh >> Was there ever an RDA done for this at any time? >> No, I think that it was for the well, but the island was for the well. >> There was an NOI for the well. >> For the well, >> because how close it is? You see how close the well is?
>> How long ago was that? >> That was recent, wasn't it? I don't think it was that long ago. >> Yeah, >> I thought Yeah, I'd have to get the date. It was again, it's it's been it's been >> long long as relative like six months
within the last six, seven months. >> Close to the pond. >> Is that approved on a plan? >> No. >> I have a question. Mark, did you get any information from the contractor that's doing the work? >> I didn't. There was nobody on site when I got
>> on that on their Bobcats. Nothing like that. >> No, >> I'm trying to see on the yellow tag if there's any like like bill info, but >> you can read that. >> No, I can't. >> Do you still have the picture on your phone? >> Uh, it's on a 35. >> Are you trying to read the information
on the back of I could zoom it in? Yeah, it's a phone. So, so you um DMV is that >> it's probably just an inspection. >> Yeah, I'm just see if we can get a little bit more information like the if
they applied for anything or any permits then >> I I think another step would be to talk to Bob Lucy again. He he he said he didn't know who was doing the work. I don't know. I didn't press Bob on it, but
um he he did the the site plan for the well. He was involved in the well. >> Okay. >> So, they may have contracted with somebody else to to to do this work, >> but that's um >> And you looked at the plan from the original NOI.
>> Yeah. >> Just to make sure that they didn't include this rebuild. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, do I wonder if we sent a green card to the when we the property owners in Florida
need to We sent um >> this is what we sent. And I'm sorry I should have made copies for everybody. I just pulled this out today. I realized I realized because uh the building commissioner came over to comment on my
uh artisal cease and assist sign. But when we got down there, it was I I I went up to the office and and got a actual c I need some of those stickers >> where the We need to find out where the
owners are. >> They're in Florida. They're on address. >> Well, it'll be on the tax bill and we need to send them uh a letter by green card. >> Okay. >> I can find >> Oh, you know what? We We did We did. I'm sorry. Green card. When you said that, I
was certified mail. >> Let me ask to Florida. >> Yep. We sent it to the owners. We have the address off of the uh uh tax the assessors >> and we didn't hear from them. We didn't get the green card. >> I got to ask I got to ask.
>> So, and we'd like to see what she what you sent what the what the letter said. >> Um I think it was just a cease and desist and it says you need to contact us. You're violating. >> So, a copy of this went to them and it's by certified mail. Yes.
>> Okay. meeting. >> Yep. >> So, we revisit this on January 13th. >> Can I ask a quick question? >> Yep. >> Um, if if a if the homeowner hired a contractor to do the work, the
contractor wouldn't apply for the the permit. >> Well, obviously they didn't, but the ultimate responsibility is on the homeowner. >> It is. >> Okay. Yeah, because most of the contractors do get permits for their own. >> I'm trying to think is my side of the world when I when I apply for a permit.
>> So, if a landscaper does a retaining wall, normally it wouldn't require a permit. So, I'm sure that they just I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying most landscapers wouldn't go through a permitting process for that until it comes to the buffer zone. And
probably >> most landscapers probably don't know about the buffer zone, >> right? >> Well, we've been working on that actually. We've been working with Lance April so a lot and they call now and ask up front some questions before they >> so I'll find out whether we got the certified mail
>> and look at you'll look at the NOI for the well. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Um and >> it must have been it was an NOI for the well. >> Yeah. >> And and I can send another letter we can send another letter to the property owner too.
>> Let's just pull up copies of everything and we'll visit it on the 13th. Okay, we can do that >> if we don't hear from >> I'm gonna I'm gonna give Bob Lucy a call. He's a He's pretty responsive. So, >> okay,
>> we need a vote on this. >> Uh, we can ratify the uh >> cease and assist >> cease and assist. >> Motion to ratify the cease and desist order at 19 Shore Avenue. >> Second.
All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Next. Number eight, Upper Namaset Channel Restoration Project. Um, this is basically just FYI. This
will be coming for >> I love it. >> Lakeville and Middle. >> Yes. Well, >> I don't love the permitting process. It's gone backwards. Three steps backwards. >> On that page, >> the what? >> The text on that page.
>> Um, like I said, just to notify land owners, and I'm still trying to find out if our conservation land is under article 97 land. It's um this all was going forward and hit a big
stumbling block on natural heritage because of the red belly cooters and what's going to happen when at just the permitting is just this needs to be done. This eliminates now that that H&H study's
been done um it's come to the conclusion of the undersized culver at Tamarak Park is not what's causing the backup of the water in the ponds and the flooding.
It's actually clearing out >> the upper Nebraska. >> Yeah. Well, the sand a lot of the mask. >> We got a westerly wind coming across the pond and all the sand goes in there. >> I was up paddle out there last week >> and I could barely get my kayak through there. I mean, just
>> the mountains are coming up. >> Wow. >> It's just one of those things. Once again, it really needs to be done and the permitting is a nightmare. And uh town council from Lakeville, the same town council is looking at it from Middleboro and Lakeville. just the
letter to send to the two homeowners that have property that's there. Not even including that there's a piece of Lakeville under conservation that's also there. Um but just to have the one
lawyer look at it for both towns you need a inter I don't even understand but similar to an inter municipal agreement through the lawyers have to agree >> that they're looking at it for both towns. So it's like every single step of the way is like a nightmare which you
know from fish and herring anything that gets done >> three years get past the rig belly cuda >> I know >> something that requires ongoing maintenance >> it would require ongoing maintenance also >> an open permit does >> just like between the quitus ponds they
always dredge that yeah >> that goes through there so I don't know why they can maintain that but they can't maintain this >> can't why can't we get some kind of a ongoing open >> lovely wouldn't Yeah. >> Ridiculous to go through every time. >> Well, it this hasn't been a real
restoration project. This is really restoration where they're redoing the banks actually and then see the plan. >> But this will come before us eventually once they get by whatever it is they have to do for natural heritage. >> So, do we need a vote on this? I mean, I
>> No, this was just basically FYI that this is coming and so it's I don't we don't pop it on at the last minute. The next couple are just kind of >> okay, right? >> So, what is next? >> Storm water review.
>> The storm water review, you people, we just got this what Friday. So, the storm water review uh bylaw is passed out to everyone and we will put it again on the next agenda when everybody's had a chance to. >> Do we have an existing storm water bylaw?
>> No. No. Okay. No, we do not. So, this would be it. But I mean, I went through it and redlinined some things, but you know, we'll talk about it next time. And anybody bring with you your questions or >> I've got notes. Anybody want notes? >> Want some more paper?
>> I ask Mark to look at it. >> A general bylaw that came down last year. >> I just I I read it and I tried to hit a couple of the high. >> Well, why don't you make something for us for the next meeting? >> Yeah. Storm water management for
dummies. make a symbol for us. >> Is that the author of it? >> But every time I see something like this, >> all I do is turn on television and look at other places across the country where storm water management has failed
horribly. >> One page here some it just has one highlight that says Lakeland Protection by it. So, I just tried to flag some of the things I saw reading this reading it
through. I think it's it's a it's still draft obviously. Um and um there things in there. I guess one important important to note that the planning
department would be the lead for storm water. Um there's um and if you want to read u what's the the verbiage in there unless unless it was um an issue that was entirely just
involved conservation commission. Um >> who who developed this? >> We know u proposing this >> y >> and I and I think AP law did some review of it. >> Yes they did. FO
the legal because it's technically a town bylaw. It's not a >> it's not proposing by >> it's not a board bylaw. >> But it was a plan >> and because it's it's generally unless it falls unless it's a specific piece that
falls under the purview of conservation um it would be owned and run by planning. >> And is it are they looking for other boards to approve this too or just us >> weigh in. >> Yeah, weigh in. >> Just weigh in.
>> What if we >> But we work with the planner board all the time anyway. Well, we we share. We don't make someone do if it's going it's if it's in the wetland or in the buffer zone. >> Just asking the question. >> No, but I'm just saying we work with them all the time anyway. If it's in the
wetland, we share that. We don't make people go get a peer review. >> Okay. All right. We would probably have the most relevant impact over storm water over other boards, I would say. >> So, we we have not had a bylaw up till
now. >> Right. >> And why are we proposing one now? >> I guess you better ask the planning board. >> Okay. I can if that's if people have questions, if you want to email them to me between now and next meeting, I'll
try to, you know, Yeah. What's the impetus? You know, what's driving this >> um I mean like I tried to highlight a few things you know you know I thought you know they have a requirement in there uh for a shy bond or some type of
u mechanism to ensure that you know that storm waters uh is is implemented the best management practices you know that's good >> I guess I'll tell you later >> so some typos in there. Lakeville does
it cites the Lakeville wetlands protection bylaw, >> right? Yes. >> So, good good job, Nancy. I think we're all done with that. We can table that. It doesn't exist. We exist. So um another thing I noticed and if you get
into like there's a whole bunch of permit application the review process how to coordinate between planning conservation and you need a spreadsheet to see there there's some there's some timing issues.
There was something about 14 days um uh if planning is reviewing um storm water would come to conservation and other boards and we'd have 14 days to comment on it. I'm
that's not enough timely short time. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and it doesn't mention peer review which you know feeds into timing. So I think it's still uh draft. I I don't know. I I haven't been around long enough. Um I talked to Nate Darling
a little bit about this. Not not a whole lot, but seems like there's been an effort to to write this one or something like this ongoing for a bit. I don't know. >> Yeah, because Nate's the one that's going to do the enforcement. >> Yeah, that as it's written
>> as written now and and you for us, right? >> So that's where Matt comes in. What's the trigger? >> Wait a minute. >> It's got to be a subdivision, right? Or commercial. >> Yeah. And that's >> anything section they have.
>> What caused this or what? >> What would trigger? >> Yeah. >> What they go over one acre? >> Any disturbance res? >> Yeah. If you look section five, I only see again I only pulled one out there
out of there land >> for a single family acre, >> but there there's several other ones land disturbance of one acre or greater >> disturbance of one. >> All right. Well, the reason that >> this only came in Friday and people
really haven't had a chance to look at it. So, I think that big discussion of it should go for January 13. Do you have any questions? We can go to Mark. Matt, you're trying to say something. >> It's usually from my experience from pulling permits on all multiple towns. It's anything that has like roofs that's
40 over 40 uh 40,000 squares, right? That has a water volume. Um that's where if you look at one of the sections, you have to upsize the gutters. How you going to direct the water? A lot of commercial roofs. Um we'll get into that stuff. Um like all different towns. I
usually rubber roofs, a lot of commercial rubber roofs, how how the water's going to get pitched when you have slopes on the roof goes backwards. Is there is that those gutters have enough sufficient to hold the water? >> All right. So, let's be prepared to have questions or comments or whatever for
our January 13th meeting. >> Page 6A, one through four is the triggers. >> Yeah. Scope and applicability. I just pulled out one of >> a >> public and private
properties six is the is uh the bylaw applies to and then the prohibited activities. So discharges shall be applicable to any of the following activities >> one acre.
So the minimum buildable lot in Lakeville residential lot is an acre and 3/4. >> Yep. So this is going to apply to individual >> result in any land disturbance of 1 acre or greater. >> I think that's >> or any activities of land disturbance of less than an acre if the project is
larger than a common plan development. And then there's prohibited activities. So basically starting at the top of page six is what your triggered activities are. >> Oh yeah. >> And then on page seven talks about exemptions. Okay, let's move on. It's going to be
out for January 13th. Um, number 10, KP Law Legal Services request form. This came, so we included in the packet, but I can't remember last time I asked the town council. We usually don't, but if we need to, this
is the new request form, FYI. >> Okay. So, we can't hire town council ourselves. Anyway, and it's even more more restrictive if you will now for proposed. >> Well, >> don't we have to
>> we will be able to well >> yeah we have to go to board request time. >> So >> yes, that's what this form is for. >> So this doesn't apply to what? It's the town it's town select that'll fill that thing out, right? >> No. Anybody that wants
>> for example uh if use labar is a good example of the a big project like that phase nine of take your pick >> six
>> massive project within the wells and the applicant shows up with his architect, his engineer, his attorney. At that point, Nancy should have the right to be able to say, "Hey, we got the heavy hitters coming in for
the next two or three meetings. Could I please get counsel to attend?" They're going to ask that I can't defend. I'm not a lawyer. >> I understand that >> that So, she needs to that I think that's their point, >> but she would still have to go to the selectman to get it approved. >> Yes. >> So, the selectmen are the ones that
would go to KP Law and tell them that >> But we fill this out to ask permission for them to that we fill up this >> request for legal pay. >> But the other thing is what we just passed that town meeting to get our be able to use our own fees out of the
revolving fund is my point is most of the time which is why we don't do this. You're right. If it's a big project and there's a bunch of heavy hitters is one thing but most of the time we don't need town council. We need professional help, a professional wetland scientist, and we
can get that because we have we can get a peer review from something like that on the applicant, but not until starting next. >> But we can do we can get it on the applicant now. But I'm saying starting July 1, we would have a little money if
we want to get something extra. Anyway, okay. Meeting minutes. Joseph, >> did we decide? Do we have to do these separately? >> I think we did. >> I think we do. Okay. Make a motion that we accept the minutes the Lakewood
Conservation Commission meeting of August 26, 2025 as presented to us. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> I abstain. >> Make a motion that we accept minutes of
confirmation commission dated September 9th, 2025 as presented to us. >> Second discussion. All in favor? >> I sorry. This is probably the point where I should have scheduled a flight 137,
but I just didn't realize that everybody didn't get the uh first agenda. So, that's the only thing. We'll have to uh go through Lori for the site visit for 137 Himlock Sh Road and she'll send out all the information about it.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Motion to second. >> All in favor? >> Merry Christmas everyone. >> Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. >> Happy Hanukkah. Happy holiday.