[Music] Good evening and welcome to the July 24, 2025 meeting of the Lakeville Planning Board. It is 6:31 and we are meeting this evening at the Lakeville Police Station at 323 Bedford Street. We have Lake Cam recording. Is anyone else
recording? Hearing none. We do have a quorum this evening, Mr. Wilga, Mr. Gall, Mr. Lodge, myself, and we also have Don Aguay who is our newest associate member joining
us this evening. And um to get right to our first agenda item, we have a meeting with Serpent at 6:30 for our kickoff with kick kickoff meeting for rules and regulations update. So, welcome. >> Thank you for having me. For the record, my name is Taylor Perez. I'm the
director of housing and research at Serbed. We are your regional planning agency and we have worked with you folks in the past on your master plan and housing production plan. So, it's great to be back. It's been, you know, almost a year or two now. Um, so happy to be here. Um, I don't have too much on my
end. I'm just going to give you folks an idea of what we've been doing on the back end. I know we kind of slowwalked this up to the fiscal year, so I appreciate you folks kind of bearing with us, but now we're moving full steam ahead. Um, so I will give you an update on that and then I'll just have a couple questions from myself and from other
team members who are working on this and then I really just want to hear from you folks if there's areas of particular interest that you want us to focus on. I know you folks, for example, recently completed a storm water bylaw, you know, references to that. Um, all sorts of things. So, just for some background, we
have reviewed the two drafts that Kathy sent. Um I think there was one from May that still had some track changes and then we received a more updated version. So we were cross referencing between the two and then in the background we've just been looking at other communities rules and regulations. I know um a point
that Kathy made was that you want to compare fees and procedural timelines etc. So we're doing that in the background as well as just you know noting in there to check certain references to you know statutory requirements or um you know the zoning etc. Um, and so that's all kind of been
going on in the background. We're also noting areas that we might want to add additional clarification. Um, and then, you know, like I said, we're going to review the recently completed storm water bylaw, make sure that that is correctly incorporated in there. Um, and I know one of the kind of major things you wanted us to incorporate was
different road standards. So, we are working with Sean Hilton, who is my colleague from the transportation department at Serpent, to kind of work on those standards. Um, so that's all going on in the background right now. And I know that I have a couple questions, one particularly about road standards from Sean that he wanted me to
bring to you folks. >> Um, in the 2020 master plan, there was a reference to creating a complete streets policy. Um, because there's a reference in the the regulation saying, you know, creating an attractive street layout, things like that. And so our goal is always to make what could be interpreted
as subjective as objective as possible. So, is that something that you folks would be interested in seeing done as a part of this work to complement it? Um, I think they could potentially fund it through some of their mass dot work. Um, we can definitely fund it through some of this as well. So, if you think that
would be a beneficial kind of accompanyment to the update, let us know and we'd be happy to to do that for you folks. >> Okay. That's So, it's interesting because we actually just recently met with master plan. >> I saw that in the news. So I was like, >> "Yeah, so >> it was very very quickly cuz it, uh, we
just met met with them on Monday." >> Monday. >> Yeah. >> So, um, one of the things they brought up was sidewalks. >> So, we So, when we have subdivisions come to us, one of the common waiverss that is requested is sidewalks. >> And, you know, one of the master plan
members questioned, is it for both sidewalks or just one? And really um when it's for example a subdivision we just recently had that was added on to an existing subdivision and there's no sidewalks in the existing subdivision. So their whole point was
well there's no existing sidewalks. Why would we be required to provide them? So that's something that we've run into and definitely would like to address with this update. Um, and I think
maybe having something that specifically says, you know, all new subdivisions or or however, you know, you find that is best to to word it, but to have only exceptions for certain situations
>> and maybe it is if it's a an existing subdivision without a sidewalk, then that's allowed, but every other subdivision going forward. And so with ZBA, when they have someone looking for a variance, they have to prove hardship. So I don't know if that's something that
should be incorporated that it should only be if they can show hardship. >> Um, but I think we do because masterplane asked about it and >> you know unfortunately when we have, you know, developer pushing and and making points that make sense then um that it
has been something we've run into. >> Okay. Gotcha. Great. So I will make a note of that. I'll talk with Sean about that. Um, and I can get more details on, you know, for complete streets policy what that might look like. I think he gave us an example for Middleboro. I can find a couple other ones. Um, and ensure that I get
them to Kathy to get to you folks to take a look at and then, you know, just through an email chain or something, she can let us know if that's something that you folks would be interested in. >> That'd be great. Yeah. >> Great. And then this is kind of where I want to turn to you folks and say is there anything else beyond so again here's the
main points that I have terminology references um you know again to stat statutory requirements etc time frames fee schedules including the storm water standards and then the road standards. Is there anything else that you folks would like us to be thinking about as we
continue to review this? >> Lighting. >> What's that? >> Lighting. Huh? >> Lighting. Maybe. >> Well, we have so we have um a lighting bylaw >> uh like the dark sky compliant. Um >> so one of the things another another
common waiver that is requested is so we have the requirement for street lights but we don't have street lights in town. So we do allow them to do driveway lanterns. >> Okay. >> At the entrances. >> Yeah. At the end of their driveways. So that has been something that we're common commonly allowing.
>> Okay. So just like you know putting that in writing that that is acceptable. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Or maybe changing from street light to driveway lanterns. >> Gotcha. Okay. Just like pivoting completely to that. Okay. >> Right. Unless >> Well, I guess I guess it's street
lighting, right? Because some of this is written as as residential but then also, you know, other rules and regs, right? Fall into commercial kind of spaces too, right? >> Well, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, that's true. Yes. So, we don't want to take if it's commercial, we don't want
to say no to the more more specific kind. >> Yeah. Specific to residential, I guess. >> Yeah. I guess we're just trying to >> I guess give the options for the residential so we're not seeing like a list of 18 standard waivers like we we started making a list of 18 waivers but if we could try to avoid the point of
>> right >> having a million waivers for the same ones over and over again >> clear what >> and then and then I feel like you said sometimes the list gets long and then just eat they they throw a bunch in there so that we pick off >> the four or five you know low hanging fruit so that way they can get away you know not get away but like try to like >> if you
>> deflect from the other ones >> that makes sense for sure. Um, sorry to interrupt. If you folks are putting together a list of common waiverss or you have an idea of that, that would be great information for us to have even if not now just >> um because we can kind of try to look >> I go back to the last few ones and see, >> right?
>> Well, I know so street trees, >> okay, >> is one because it'll tear up the um the pavement if the roots get, >> you know, onto the pavement. >> So, we do allow that, but we do look for um >> maintaining existing plantings. Mhm.
Mhm. >> Um in in in lie of that. Um >> I know it's usually the underground utilities, but we usually kind of push for that, but depending on where >> the underground utilities, that's not something we typically are in favor of waving. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Um
>> are you folks looking for any specific species of street trees? I that's kind of a super random one, but I do remember when I was reading through thinking that. >> Oh, can there was So there's a deer resistant evergreen. >> Evergreen. Yeah, >> we had it. It's almost like an arborite
of types, but it is definitely deer resistant. It's a little bit fuller of a plant and it's an evergreen. And we would have to pull up the last the last one we just went through the specific species. >> Okay. Yeah, I'd be interested because I know in there it just says
>> Leland Cypress Leland Cypress has a de resistance. So, that's one that we would tend to favor. >> Okay. >> And it does get a little fuller. So if there is anything that needs to be, you know, covered up or whatnot, it's a little bit natural to the habitat in New
England and so forth. So >> Okay. Great. >> Yeah, we can explore some of that with the environmental department as well, but just to kind of get an idea. >> Our open space um committee actually has an excellent listing of native
>> um plantings as well. Awesome. So we can reference that. Great. Anything else major that you would want us to be thinking about? >> Those are the main items that we've discussed.
>> Yeah. Mhm. >> Nothing jumps out right now. Other than >> is there any like diagrams or things that you think would be beneficial in there? >> Yeah. >> Can you site some examples like what kind of
>> So sometimes um you know as a part of it's I think probably more common in form based code and that's something that I would you know lean more on my colleague Robert Cabraw who's not here but he has a background in landscape architecture and is super familiar with all of that kind of stuff. But, you know, even just like not design
guidelines necessarily, like we don't have to make a whole design guideline document, but if there are common things that you're referencing, again, kind of in the same like way of like common waiverss or whatnot or common things that you're like, it should look like this versus that. Um, >> no, I'd love to see some of those
included. >> I can talk to Rob about that cuz I >> Yeah, maybe some examples that he's done before. See if we want to put them. You know what I mean? even if it's similar, we can kind of tailor it to like what we what we need. But >> right, I will ask Rob about that. I think he'll have some good input. Um so
for sure. >> Cool. Okay. Um and then I guess this is kind of more um boutiquey, but do you want us to like lay it out in a nice, you know, PDF format? Um do you want us to keep it in a word doc? You know,
what's your preference? Um, probably word just in, you know, we definitely want a word copy of it. >> We have this in Word, right? >> Could >> Yeah, we do have it in Word, but >> if it looks, you know, like a nice PDF to upload to the website would be great. Yeah, we can probably pass along both
where you'll have a word version of it and then um we can lay it out, you know, just diagrams and whatnot >> because I think at least the word to begin with as the preliminary to kind of see where you change that you can track the changes and kind of see where things change versus trying to go back and forth, but then that way and then
obviously the PDF the final. >> Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So, we can pass along both at the end too. um you know and if you ever want to if you made major changes to it for some reason you're like could you put it in that layout that you made like you have MA hours and whatnot all sorts of ways that we can just do that that's no problem
>> so we'll pass along both but I was just curious if that was something that you'd be interested in >> Mhm. >> Um great anything else >> Jack what do you think anything that comes to mind? you know, we talked about
it before and you know, yeah, I mean, I agree with what everything's been said here. So, no, I wouldn't >> Okay, >> I wouldn't make any changes. I'm not >> Okay, we need to >> David. >> Yeah, >> good. >> I'm good. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> Dan, you've nothing else. >> I'm good. >> Donna, any questions? >> Not yet. >> All right. >> Great. So, I took notes. Um, we'll work with Kathy to communicate further and then, you know, once we're feeling at a substantial spot, hopefully it's the end
of July now, maybe, you know, we come back in like early to midepptember um with a nice draft um some notes uh and go from there. >> Sounds good to me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Excellent. >> All right. Thank you folks. We appreciate it. >> We'll be in touch. Appreciate it.
>> Awesome. Have a good night. >> You too. And I'll see you in August. We have annual meeting in September. So maybe we'll see you close there. >> All right. Okay. Oh, and actually before you leave, just because we have it a
little later on, the OSRD update. >> Mhm. >> Um, so we had talked about using Serpent Hours, but you you're going to help apply for this grant to >> Gotcha. Right. >> What would the My only question is what would the time frame just because we're
hoping to get those three things tied. Are you working with Danica and everyone? Michelle Tinger. >> Oh, yes. It was not you as much. >> Yeah, I don't think it it's probably through environmental because they're wrapping up a grant with the Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs um on an OSRD review. So, my
guess is that it's either through one of their programs. Um but if you'd like, I can ask Danica and Michelle and have them, you know, give us a timeline. >> Yeah, that was my only question was just the timeline. >> I'll find out for you. >> Okay, great. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Appreciate it.
And do we want to take a brief intermission? Oh, >> we have to wait 7 can pass out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Want to make that motion to >> I make a motion that we uh take a quick
recess and about 15 minutes. >> Have a motion. Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. [Music] We're going to take agenda item number six, the Lakeville Country Club Golfers Way modification to plan possible vote
out of order. Uh just before the hearing start at 7. So if you would >> Thank you, Madam Chairman, and also federal board members. Uh so the reason we're here is there was uh in the original engineering plan uh the way it was drawn up, it was actually going to
take away my solar farm and the transform and all the high voltage stuff that I had there, >> right? uh which I didn't realize that until I really looked at the ground and saw my little pole was in the middle of a road and uh so I asked the engineer and and also uh towns the town engineer
as well if there was a possible way we could just change this a little bit. >> So that was the only reason we made the change drainage and everything else stays the same. Uh I believe you have a copy of a plan shown uh actually the fire department we did do a review for him and I believe he was okay with it.
He emailed me saying that. I don't know if he gave you anything in writing yet. >> I don't have it. No, >> you don't have anything from the chief yet? Okay. Uh, but basically it's the way it's laid out. Uh, once they pull in, they'll be literally pulling into a parking lot if there was any problem
with their radius. And one of the things the engineer wanted me to mention is the island itself's not going to have any uh curbs on it. So, if they had to drive on the grass for some reason, it's not going to affect anything. Okay. >> As far as that goes. Uh, and in his email to me, I believe he was all set
with it, but I'd rather he sent you something, >> right? >> I don't know if I'm here for any other part of that, but I do appreciate the board's uh the opportunity to make, you know, this possible change. >> Sure. So, I think um and this was all
sent over to peer review to review. >> Yes. But have you haven't gotten anything back from them? Okay. >> Um and then you had a question about noticing. Is that what it was? >> Yeah. Just because we they've never done that like had a change and the change
actually requires an additional waiver. Does can is that just a vote? Like I looked at the approval and it seems like it's they determine if it's if that is needed. >> Sure. So, thank you. So, Amy Wessel Town Council. So um under general laws
chapter 41 section 81T um it states that uh before approval modification and approval or disapproval of the definitive plan is given a public hearing shall be held by the second board. >> It goes on to about how you know the public notification of the time. So we
do need it to be >> so since this is a modification it would be a public >> particularly because they are looking for an additional waiver. I think if it was a minor slashclerical
you know I don't know if public hearing would be necessary but um that is in the statute. >> Okay. All right. So we'll have to notice that and get it back on the agenda. Okay. Madam Ch Madam Chairman, I thought there was something in the agreement that the town
engineer could make uh could approve changes on her own or his own whoever the town engineer is in this. That was my understanding. >> So I don't have to grant a waiver. >> Okay. Yeah. So I don't have the condition in front of us, but I think
the common condition says that if it's deemed significant or not. >> Yes. If it's insignificant, the town engineer or the building sometimes it's the building commissioner can make the change. >> But um under the subdivision control law
and under 81R and under your rules and regulations, the planning board has to make the has to determine whether a waiver is granted or not. >> Okay. >> So we require a public hearing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Hey, I might get this road done one of
these days. >> Yes. Yes. >> Um can I can I ask one thing? Uh there must be a deadline when I have to get this road started or done or whatever. Uh is it 2 years or 3 years? >> So we changed the covenant where it says 3 years.
>> So it's still three years. So it's 3 years from November or whatever the the original date was. I just want to make sure I don't miss that date. >> And >> well I think it's three years from the date of approval. >> Yes. >> Three years. Okay. because I thought somewhere it said two and I just wanted to >> it's I think the standard time frame is
two but when we had asked Amy about it she said well if we're just right there give it 3 years >> that's all I was really concerned about so I could definitely wait for the obviously public >> and this new waiver didn't start wouldn't reset that right >> no it wouldn't but also depending on when you were grant when your permit was
granted under the current so when you get close to the expiration >> I think I am getting close to it that's why I >> when was Um >> I think it was like November. >> This is August 7th, 2023. Uh August 7th, 2023. That's when the
town clerk received this. >> So you are you are within extension. >> Is that what it is? Okay. >> So for the record, Glad you're here. >> No, I'm glad you >> That's off the top of my head. >> Well, I have heard both. That's why I
was uh I'll follow up if if maybe >> I'll follow up, too. >> Yeah. If that public hearing says we need to get an extension, maybe we do it all at the same time if that's >> okay. With that, >> that's a good idea. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, thank you very much, everyone. Thank you. We too, too. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for your service to the
town. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We're at 655. Michelle, would you be okay with me talking about Bel? >> Yeah, that's >> cuz that time so I can give you an update on that. >> Sure. >> Sure. I
>> was going to say off the strike. >> Yeah. >> Five minutes. Five minutes. >> Take two. >> All right. We're going to take out of order uh agenda item number eight, administrative update. Bella update. possible vote. >> All right. Good evening, Jamie Bessnet,
Zenith Consulting Engineers. For the record, um I spoke with Mr. Palucci. I did not know this was on the agenda, but I did. I saw it when I was in in the hallway. Um Bob has had work going on this week. So, he's given the go-ahead to Red Lawn to put the level course on
the side of the pavement. Uh my understanding is they went down this week and cut the grass for the swale and they started removing the silt fence. um it was proving a little bit harder. So, they were going to get additional equipment today and go back to try to complete removing the silk fence along
the swale. Okay. Um my understanding is that he's contacting John Moly for the fencing in the back and I still don't have a 100% clear picture on the vegetation on Mr. SAS's property which is kind of in the back where the previous a butter had cleared back into
the wooded area there >> and they wanted us to plant a couple of uh couple of trees in that area >> but that will be taken care of um >> but there is motion moving forward on it now I know it's stagnant for probably six months um >> but I did get that update this week was
just coincidental >> excellent yeah the only reason we were going to ask her is because we hadn't heard anything back so >> yeah no and and rightfully so I checked in on it and I checked with Derek. Um, so that's the update. That's what I have. I have not been down to verify it. I'm sure you guys are welcome to take a swing by and verify it and I will too,
but that's uh that's what I'm told. >> Excellent. >> All right. >> Thank you, Jamie. >> I'll see you guys in a couple weeks probably anyway, so >> we can talk if something's not done. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jamie. >> 658. official.
>> Yeah. >> Um something that I think we can do real quick is the other administrative update item from the arts council. Um they are requesting regarding the new
center stage. Thank you. >> Mhm. To avoid confusion and for continuity, the arts council respectfully asks that the structure behind the historical town hall building and in front of the Lakeville Public Library be referred to as center stage. All of our publicity for use of
the structure with and without a cover has always been called center stage since 2013 when the stage was built and concerts are performed on. We would like to continue this practice and would appreciate the select board and other town committees, commissions, etc. joining us in this effort. Thank you,
Lake Arts Council members. July 2025. So, duly noted center stage. One more minute. Madam chair, we're at 7 o'. >> Very good. Uh, agenda item number two is a public hearing. Special permit for 160
Bedford Street continued to this evening. A request for a special permit under section 270-7.412 to allow a commercial parking facility. Possible vote. We do have another request from the applicant to continue. Uh we are planning on foregoing our
second meeting in August. So we would be continuing this to September 11th. Amir, are you available for September 11th? >> Okay, good. Excellent. Would someone like to make that motion? >> I'll make a motion to continue 160
Bedford Street to our next meeting, September 11th, 2025. >> Second. >> All right, we have a motion in a second. All in favor? I >> I. Motion carries. The next item on our agenda is public hearing 7 p.m. site plan review
accessory dwelling unit ADU for 225 county street continued to this evening upon the application for an ADU site plan review and approval submitted by William Fuller for a proposed 900 foot ADU with an attached garage and a garage underneath. Possible vote.
>> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Jamie Beset, Zenith Consulting Engineers. Um so last meeting I think there was uh some discussion about the lock coverage and there was also some discussion about the draft decision. I
we did see the draft decision um and I did add the lot coverage beyond the letter I gave you but also to the plan. Um and so I think um I don't know of any other outstanding items, but >> uh Madam Chair,
>> uh I'm Michael Ooni, um attorney with the office in Middlear. I I just have a quick question. Um you watched the earlier meetings on this hearing and it looked like um uh Jack had missed the first one and that John had missed the
the second one. I'm just curious if the the Mullen forms were filed. Mine was filed on Tuesday. Y >> you filed yours on Tuesday. And Mr. Lynch, did you file one by chance? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Did you Did you file um the letter with
town clerk for this? >> No, I'm sorry. I did not do that tomorrow. >> So Amy, does that mean he can't vote on it? Okay. >> Did Well, did you watch the hearings?
>> No. Okay. >> Even if you did, you cannot vote on it unless it's filed. >> Okay. >> All right. So, if anybody has questions for me on the plan, I'm happy to try to address them. >> John, do you have questions? I know you
weren't here for the last one. No, I I think I think after watching it, I know there was I see the the uh the deed and I think the the one question was like the two lots and I guess it's being considered one. I know it was bought as one property but two lots, two
addresses. So that but they're fine to be used I guess combined for the lot coverage and stuff like that. That just there's more questions for us. I think I had brought that up. >> Yep. before and then the um I don't know we did have the the other questions about and I think this was something Amy
that we had asked you about the the ADU and the um accessory structure if that fell under that because it's kind of our first ADU in town and I think I don't know that >> where we landed with that >> sureially um where you landed with that is that your or where I landed with that
my opinion is that the 900 foot ADU is within your jurisdiction the accessory building uh the accessory structure is um that starts with the building commissioner. If for some reason the size of that minus the 900 square ft, if
that triggers any kind of relief, that relief would be from the zoning board of appeals under that bylaw section that provides um the bylaw section that provides that the size of the ATDU or the size of the accessory structure is related to the size of the lot.
Okay. >> I also did speak with the um assistant attorney general from the municipal law unit and she agrees with my um interpretation, I guess I would call it, where you minus out the 900 square ft
for the remainder of the um accessory structure and that will go to the building commissioner and the Z the ZBA if necessary. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, that's probably good information to share with ZBA as well because I know that that's they've already been seeing these accessory structure and >> and knowing that ADUs,
>> right, >> can have that sort of overlap. >> Yes. >> So, if you want to share with them as well. >> Okay. >> That'd be helpful. >> Yep. >> So, just for clarification, that means the ADU doesn't count towards the scale on the zoning chart. Am I correct with that? Then I All right. >> Yeah, that Yeah, that's
>> it's a separate it's it's like a separate line. Yeah, understood. Thank you. All right. Were there any questions, comments, concerns regarding the decision? >> I I had um two, Madam Chair. >> Okay. >> Um number four, um after the appeal
period is complete, the applicant shall provide a copy of the site plan for the plan board endorsement. Um is that going to be a practice with the ADUs? >> It is our hope that this would be the um the general decision standard. the
question, >> I guess. >> Yeah. Why wouldn't I mean, I don't know why I don't know whe there's a problem. >> No, no, there we're just wondering whether it's going to be a letter of approval, like a a decision or whether it's a signature block on the plan. >> Um, my thought when I read that was it's
just going to be a decision letter. Mike's is that it's going to be a signature block on the plan that you need to endorse like a subdivision. And so, we're kind of looking for clarification. Not that there's an issue either way, >> right? Because you don't have a signature block. Yeah. And it's easy to
add. It's just one of those things where >> it's a normal condition under your site plan. I did go back and I looked at um for example the last site plan that we did and you had that on there. >> All right. So, we should just keep it consistent for 80 years. >> You might as well. Yeah. >> I mean it. >> Okay. >> It
>> And then the only other one was number nine, ADU shall remain in single ownership of the principal single family dwelling. Um if if the owner elected to subject the property to the condominium statute that would effectively prohibit
him from selling the ADU and the main house is a condominium unit. Um I don't think your bylaw authorizes you folks to do that or impose such a condition. >> So um under the ADU the um the ADU has to
be accessory hence the name accessory dwelling unit. So, um I think that condition is perfectly fine. >> Um >> it keeps the um it keeps the attorney it keeps the ADU um accessory. Now, there's other attorneys that do not agree with
that. That's KP's um position on accessory dwelling units is that they have to remain >> there was a decision um from a Georgetown case that the AG had just issued um in June 16th, 2025. And that issue was discussed in
Georgetown. they they actually had a an ownership requirement in their bylaw and basically what the AG said is we don't know the answer to the question uh zoning can control use um but ownership zoning can't control um and the
distinction between what Lakeville has and what Georgetown has is Georgetown actually had that in its regulation doesn't have that. So I I would push back against whether or not you could do it. Uh to me it's inconsistent with the purpose of the ADU
which is to to to get housing out there, affordable housing. Um what would happen if um again this person sold it and they wanted to move their child into it and um they were doing it for the purpose of the child trying to build some equity. I mean you buy buy a house in Lakeville
it's 67 800 grand but maybe they could buy that small little unit as a condominium and you know it's it's 200 grand. Um, again, I just I don't I think it's an unnecessary restriction. >> So, if you condo it and it goes to a separate owner, it's the principal use. It's not an accessory use.
>> Okay. And so, KP Law is our town council and I >> we also represent Georgetown. >> So, I definitely I'm going to defer to town council for that. This is >> I'm just reading what the letter says and it it says town council needs to to to opine on it and I'm not going to tell you to disagree with your town council.
I just don't think you have the authority to do it. >> Okay. Understood. Anything else? >> Uh, no. Those were the only two issues I had. >> Okay. Any other questions, comments, concerns?
>> Not at this time. >> Nope. >> Okay. So, would we like to close the hearing? >> Yep. I'll make a motion to close the hearing for 225 county street. >> Second. Say good. >> Second. >> Um, yeah.
>> Jack can't vote. We can >> So, okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, all in favor? >> I >> I >> All right. And we have the draft decision conditions. I have no edits to be made except for
just adding those highlighted items once we're done. >> And that is the decision that I sent back with Redline. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. And we did we did check um number eight. It was all set. Great. So yeah, it was just the one change is that we did add the both addresses.
>> Okay. >> Is that a new decision other than what you had sent me? >> Uh yeah. I think this is the one that I sent with the changes. And then like I said, the address was
changed. >> So So this is the one that Amy had looked at on. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. So would someone like to make a motion to approve the ADU and conditions decision? Make a motion to
approve the um yeah approve the conditions 225 County Street >> as drafted. >> All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? >> I motion carries. All except for Jack. Thank you very much.
>> All right, thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. [Music] Agenda item number four, public hearing, site plan review, 28 Precinct Street. And I will read the public hearing
notice. The Lakeville Planning Board, pursuant to the town of Lakeville Code bylaws, chapter 270, section 270-6.7, will hold a public hearing on Thursday, July 24th, 2025, at 7 p.m. at the Lakeville Police Station, 323 Bedford Street. The purpose of the public
hearing will be to receive information and public comment on the following site plan review application. 28 Precinct Street. The applicant Andrew Sukforth, town administrator, on behalf of the town of Lakeville, seek site plan review and approval for the construction of a 17,040 ft 6 bay fire station with access
from Bedford Street. The fire station will have on-site parking, a storm water management system, utility connections, title 5 system, and a pertinent site features. The application and assorted documents can be viewed in the planning department by appointment. >> Motion to open.
>> I'll make a motion to open the public hearing for 28 Precinct Street. >> Motion second. All in favor? >> I public hearing is open. >> Can they see the moving that >> they move the easel? Can they see that?
>> Oh. Oh, yeah. We can see. >> Okay. >> Sorry. All right. I just want to make sure they can just was an ideal spot, but if it isn't, I can move. >> The only thing is when you speak, if you could speak into a microphone because they're recording us. Yeah. >> Awesome. All right. I'll move this a little closer if that's all right. >> Y ideal. All right. Uh hello uh members of
the uh planning board for Lakeville. Uh my name is Spencer Lind. I'm with PAR Corporation. I'm the civil site design engineer for Lakeville Fire Station. Uh obviously the address um listed is 28 Precinct Street, but um we're across the road here um or across the Ted Williams
Drive here. Um so not quite 323 Bedford Street, but uh just about. Um so here I'm uh presenting today the Lakeville Fire Station. Um it says 7 the footprint for the building is 17,040 square ft.
And I'll just try to get through. So obviously in the existing conditions we have uh about 2 acres of forest right and um we're uh we're basically clearing these uh these trees out to make way for the fire station. Uh we've gone through
um conservation already and gotten approval from the conservation commission uh to to do the clearing and have the impacts to the natural resources that we're having so long as they're mitigated with things like water quality treatment uh people attenuation um and uh you know gone through the NHSP
process which we're um still actively in. So, uh, we got approval for, uh, concom recently, uh, this past Tuesday. Um, and in addition, the septic plan was also approved on Monday. So, the general layout of the site is we have this, uh,
fairly wide about 115 ft wide uh, access drive for the fire station itself. The fire station is set back from the roadway from the rightway uh about 94 feet I believe that is or from the rightway it's 71 ft but from the roadway
itself it's a it's about 94 ft. Um and uh the reason for this is it's sort of a balancing act between bringing the station close to the roadway so it's visible. It's a public safety uh um you know sort of infrastructure piece of infrastructure. So it needs to be visible uh from the roadway. It needs to
be seen uh from both directions of travel, but it also needs to be far back enough from the roadway so that fire apparatus uh with their large swing radi can swing into the site, pull into the bays, pull around the site, pull into the bays. Um so uh you know that that
creates the condition where we need quite a bit of pavement. So we have this sort of access around the back in order to be able to back in and pull out. I've done all the truck routing for the apparatuses apparatus apparatus. Um and so all the all the uh vehicles uh you
know put into use by the fire department are able to sort of traverse the site both uh around the station itself and then through the parking itself as well. So this parking lot in the back uh will be used just by fire personnel only and this small parking lot in the front um
is uh is sort of designated for public use and is open all the time. This parking lot in the back is going to be gated. So, um, sort of moving into sort of the the parking requirements, uh, this is this is a lot of this is sort of really just based on, um, the demands of
the fire department. We sort of received their feedback given that, um, zoning bylaws and, uh, just the general planning bylaws. Uh, in Lakeville, uh, don't necessarily call out a fire station specifically um, and even less so perhaps a public safety building of
this nature. So, we're kind of going based off of um uh information that we received from the fire department and and the fire department planning committee. And so, um you know, the demand for you know, four spaces uh out front for the public um that was uh you know, sort of deemed by the fire
department to be necessary. And then these two spaces are for um fire chief uh and and um other high- ranking um fire department personnel specifically, so they have easy access into the building. And then uh fire personnel specifically um you know out back here.
I believe 40 spaces was the uh was the total here um that the fire department felt was um necessary. So that's what we went with. Um obviously when you have all this pavement you need to handle the storm water accordingly. And so that's
what we're doing here on the drainage and utility plan. You can see we have quite a bit uh quite an extensive um pipe network here associated with the building. Um get a trench drain out front to prevent any runoff uh from the front of the building um uh going into
the roadway. Mass DOT doesn't like that neither does uh anybody else. So we're controlling that, sending it to an underground infiltration system that's underneath the public parking lot. And in the rear of the building, we have more conveyances planned uh outside of the uh concrete approach aprons for
infiltration systems here in the parking lot and this infiltration basin out back. Um and so this is where uh a majority of the peerreview comments were sort of directed. Um you can see that I submitted, you know, three different versions of this plans before we even
came in front of you folks. and that was to sort of get through the peer review that we um had to go through for conservation. So really, you know, I know I've submitted three iterations of this plan, but the only material changes that you're really going to be able to
notice is some slight modification to the size and location of the septic system, which is now approved. Uh a slight enlargement of this underground infiltration system number two. Uh we basically just added a row and um this BM was widened out to provide the U
Massachusetts stormwater handbook mandated access around the basin itself. Um so those are really the only changes that you'll be able to materially see. There are some other minor changes to rims and inverts that had to uh occur as a result. Um there was some other data
that we handed in to the peer reviewer. Um but all in all we we made it pretty cleanly through the peerreview process and um that peer review process was closed in tandem with our uh conservation commission approval. Um there are some other site features, some sort of miscellaneous site features. We
have a transformer, a generator pad, a dumpster pad out back. Um this sort of clear area out here, which we're not even uh proposing to sort of tamper with at all, is meant to be uh future training units. Um, so they uh the fire department uh has these like basically
um I don't know if ever as a kid you folks uh like when they like filled up a trailer full of smoke and you like kind of crawled through it and stuff as a kid. Um as a a memory of mine at least. I think it's those those types of units um along with maybe storage and such. Um so that there will be no impact
associated with that. They're going to put that in the lawn someday, but that's sort of a future uh consideration for them. Uh, additionally, we have a propane uh, tank out back for gas utilities. Um, just trying to think if there's anything else. Uh, there is
obviously a planting plan somewhere back here in the distance. Um, can't quite get to it right now, but uh, you folks have received that in addition to all of the electrical uh, and lighting features uh, associated with the site. Um, one of the big ticket items with fire
departments sometimes is the addition of a a light like a traffic light or some sort of traffic light. >> I was just going to ask that too. >> There is my first >> It was deemed to be unnecessary by both the fire department and the the committee at large. Um,
>> traffic lights like that are very expensive, very like surprisingly expensive. Um, on top of the permitting that's necessary to go through Masto is pretty extreme. um Beckford Street, you can see quite a distance left and right as you're pulling out of here. So, it was deemed to be uh unnecessary at this
time. Um you know, other other considerations were made to make the site more visible. We did uh bring the clearing limit uh up as much as we felt reasonable through Concom uh to do so. So, this um this station will be very visible and so the the need for a
traffic light um just isn't really necessarily there. Um and that discussion was also bounced off of our traffic engineers with park corporation. So there was some sort of professional consultation that also uh helped to the committee arrive at that decision. Um
you know at the very outset of this um process we had done you know traffic studies looked at um the need for a light and it was determined that one wasn't necessary. Um beyond that I don't believe I have anything more to ramble
on about. Um, like I said, everything has been uh professionally vetted by a peer reviewer and we've received a thumbs up from them. So, uh, we are in good standing. Uh, at this point through Masto, we've submitted everything. Have not yet received comments back from
them. Um, but I don't expect too extreme of a comments back from them. Uh part of the reason for that being is um when you clear you know this amount of woods and it's all in sandy soils in the existing conditions barely anything runs off of
the site to begin with and so in the proposed conditions you know we're required to make even less storm water run off the site. So that means we need to basically like attenuate this whole extra amount of water because more water runs off of pavement. But in addition, there was so little water running off
this site in the existing conditions that the creating an offset there is extremely difficult. And so one of the things we did was actually accept mass DOT drainage in order to create an even further offset to to to be able to model um the the peak flow attenuation reduction that we needed. So, we're
actually accepting some of Mass DOT's drainage, attenuating it in order to meet these pre and post flow figures. So, um I assume Mass DOT will see that as a as a big benefit to them because what it does in the current condition is just run into the ditch. So, um I see
them being amendable to this project and um that is all I have and if there are any questions from the planning board, I would love to answer them. >> Okay. >> So, it Oh, yeah. I mean it and I I think we're both on the same page. I I
understand how expensive a traffic light is. Yeah. By all stretch of the means, >> but the traffic going through here I believe is what 50 and then I believe it gets to 40 down by the um by the
cemetery down here. >> Correct. What is the plan with Mass Dot in terms of whether the signage or whatnot to warn drivers coming through the community
>> to either slow down, be aware, that would be my first question. My second question would be with in lie of a traffic light. >> Um, is Mass Do going to clear some of the state line? I guess you would call
it between the uh the road so that visibility as they're coming down the hill coming into town that it's visible. Obviously, lights, sirens will be visible and yes, there is a fairly large clearing. >> Yep.
>> Um unlike some other station sites. Um, but you know, I I I think safety would be the issue and it's not so much of our firefighters as it is people barreling down 18. I mean, especially, you know, coming downtown. So,
>> want to hear your thoughts on that. >> Understood. Yeah, it's a there's there's a twofold answer to that. One is uh purely from an operational standpoint. Uh, folks who uh operate this machinery still exist on Bedford Street and have done so for a while. Um, so they have
always functioned in these conditions, uh, normally. So they're very used to needing to obviously pull out, be visible, have your lights on, but not just the lights on the in the fire station, uh, not just the lights on the fire apparatus, but also the lights in the fire station, which will be very visible. And so you have these two sets
of lights going off. You have, uh, an operator who's very cautious and used to this condition because they already operate under this condition. Um and so you know having that having that visibility having that slow approach even though um you know there's there's
some small implication to an FBA response time when you pull up to Bedford Street slower so that folks can see you um you know you do so in such a manner that keeps everyone safe and um you know there really isn't sort of a noticeable impact to NFPA response time relative to the improvement that we're
making by putting a fire station here. So, that's from an operational standpoint, and I would just say from a lighting standpoint, um to echo your point, um the station is going to be very visible. It's called um uh I'm I'm blanking on the name, but you're
basically allowed as a minor activity in the WPA to clear any uh it's vista pruning. Uh you're allowed to clear any limbs that you deem necessary in order to increase visibility. and that would be done so through either Masdot's own actions or through the the town's
actions. So the MASDOT would be amendable to this uh because it is a public safety concern. This is something that we're already doing in designing around and uh if for if more uh sort of clearing of limbs were needed or even the felling of trees were needed um that would be able to be determined and done
so um swiftly uh as needed. But that has been designed around that visibility. How about signage though? Because that's a ma that would probably be a masked dot um their responsibility since it is a state road. So I mean obviously they'll
put in signage but you know um I think the visibility factor as you're coming down that hill. >> Yep. >> That's like sign the other one. So just just to so if mass dot were to respond we could always condition for whatever
mass dot because if if it's not done in a fairly timely manner we could condition for something like that right Amy that we could have them. Yeah. I mean, I I I you know, acknowledge that you've got good visibility. >> Yeah. >> Uh but and
I'm not worried about it on traffic coming up from the town from the intersection down here because it's slower. But >> yeah, >> you know, I've I'm the kind of driver you don't want to get behind. But there are plenty of people who come
down that road that >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. you know, it's >> getting off 495 on autopilot, just flying through and not >> but >> yeah, so you know, that's something I would definitely >> So, I would think Masto would look at maybe speed limit enforcement, whether
it's, you know, some sort of change to the speed limit or if >> Yeah, maybe the 40 mph gets moved up. >> But even if it's signage, can the is the town able to put signage on the state? >> It's a state highway, >> so it has to be approved. So, so none of this can happen without DOT.
>> Yeah. So DOT basically has to make that determination. The town really can't >> Yeah. But I think we need to if if they don't >> so >> do what we think we should lean on them pretty good.
>> Is there a comment? Do they accept comments? >> Uh they require um the local approvals to be submitted to them. Okay. So if there was um some sort of condition of approval that we wanted to place regarding signage um I would be
absolutely amendable to it and it's you know usually when I go through mass DOT comments um there's this sort of like uh like workshop that we'll have with them or I have like a like a call with them um because we're very early on in that stage. So, um, this is absolutely something I can bring up with them and I
can even submit a letter from the planning board or the conditions from the planning board saying, "Hey, we have these concerns. We want to make sure that Mass Dot is reviewing this properly." Um, which they are going to, you know, every every fire station that I've ever done um has always that's always been a comment made by Mass Dot
is like, "What kind of signage are you doing? How close is it to the station? Far away from the station." Um, you know, it's it's it's hard to say. I can't speak for Masot and what they're going to require. if they see that there's some sort of um that there's some sort of uh traffic slowing that's
needed, whether they move back the 35 mph zone further back, that's kind of up for them to determine because they're the approving authority on that matter. So, if it is deemed necessary, obviously, we'd be amendable to it. We're trying to put it in fire station. So, I mean, my my thoughts is that either they do something like that with
the speed limit or even just include a sign that says fire department ahead, fire station ahead, something like that on >> blinking on the sign. Do you think that's a reasonable condition or do you are you familiar with conditioning something like that that we could they
could present to mass dot? >> You can't condition that you're going to require that mass dot does something, >> right? So you can make a finding that the planning board feels that you know the planning board finds that um due to the location of the proposed station um
mass should implement um or should do it you know do a study and um the planning board recommends a sign um there will be a sign there's no there's no question there will be a sign um >> so whether it's flashing or not I don't know
>> um but there will be there will be signs Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we'll just we would include that in >> as a finding. >> In finding it. >> Yes, Jack. >> Yeah. I think take a look backwards. Look at the station I'm in now.
>> I think that station is in a worse >> right >> traffic location than this one. Because >> if you've ever come out of Ace or that >> Brew House or whatever it is, those people are whooping around on this side. Mhm. >> And so, and I don't, correct me if I'm wrong, folks. I don't think there's any
kind of flashing lights or this that, and the other thing, saying there's a fire station, which is set back quite a bit. I'm saying up here, at least this is a fairly straight road. >> Granted, anybody's zipping along at 50, 60 or more. Now whether like Dan was
saying if we want to put up a flashing light that just says fire station ahead I mean but that's predicated on a decision by the state but I mean we don't have them down here and so far >> in the four years I've been here there's been no accidents.
So I mean >> right it has much better visibility. the the speed limit down there is only 40 and you've >> you know you're >> Oh yeah, you know, if you're trying to get out of ace, they're coming at you from the left. >> Well, yeah,
>> at about 60, >> right? Okay. Um John, did you have any questions, comments? >> Yeah, I had a couple. Um on your utility plan, I'm assuming that's a decontamination tank. It's not labeled. >> Oh, tight tank. >> Yep.
>> That is a tight tank. Yeah. uh vent, conduit, drain line, and tight tank referred to plumbing drawings, referred to electrical drawings, shown for graphical purposes only. As a civil engineer, I don't own that because what goes into it comes from inside and what happens inside is sort of out of my
purview, but um it is it's just spoils from any sort of mechanical leakage or fire foam or whatever uh harsh chemicals, anything that shouldn't end up in the septic system or shouldn't end up in the drainage system ends up in the titan. >> So, you're just showing for reference. I didn't see a detail for it. So, just for reference,
>> not my not my clown, not my circus over there. >> No worries. Um, and then I didn't see I don't I don't Doesn't look like a big grade, but the slopes of the of the driveways. >> Yeah. So, this was uh very laborous task
for me in on in the onset of this uh uh design process. Uh really the the issue that we have is the roadway is down here at 87. The existing grade is up here at 93. I need to get from 87 to somewhere where the fire station can be uh
quickly, but not too quickly because the fire apparatus can be anywhere upwards of 60 feet long and if you put them at too much of an angle coming into the garage, they hit the top of the garage and can't pull in. So, um it's it was tough to figure that out. So I I
basically end up dropping the grade by quite a few feet and then bringing the grade up quickly and then making it shallow out um so that it's you're at for the for the entire approach apron you're coming in at two 2% and then you're coming up at 5% um and this is just just hopefully give enough
clearance vertically for the fire apparatus to be able to pull in um out back really all I'm trying to accomplish is um getting the grade pitching away from the fire station again to be able to collect storm water and convey it away and then quickly getting uphill
again so that I meet existing grade as quickly as possible so that I'm doing as little cutting of the grade as possible because earthwork costs money. >> So it's it's yeah it's pull through and they can go out in that heavy duty. Okay. >> Yeah. Yep. And then
a couple things I think and I didn't see I know there's the the ice I guess the yeah the 3D on there but that do you have elevations of the buildings? I don't think we saw those. >> I believe those were >> are they in there before? Over there in the back. Okay. I didn't see the architecturals in the back. Um and my
one last comment was the I saw that there's the I know that there's the existing path through the woods that cuts from Ted Williams behind the tennis courts that goes over to the new to the new courts. Is that I saw that it was on the existing on your existing plan but I didn't see does it is it getting removed
or is it getting relocated >> that trail we're very far from it. >> Okay. >> Yeah it's cuz as you know it it has a bridge associated with it the stream barely gets exposed. >> Okay. No I just it uh All right. So the scale it was a little I know it was a little different. I just couldn't. It's
outside of >> Yeah. >> That's fine. I just didn't know I didn't know if the building was going right through it and it was just getting just curious if it was still there cuz I've used that trail a couple times. summer. You might have trouble even seeing the fire station. It's pretty dense back there. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Yeah. Get twisted around. >> Yeah. >> And back there. Um
>> No, that was it. Apologies for the I didn't realize on the >> Oh, yeah. No worries. >> Elevations. >> Um, has the color been determined yet? I know that was still up in the air. Just out of curiosity. I know people are asking. >> I think they're usually red, but red and white,
but uh the you might have a a comment on that. I don't know. So, >> Michael Van Haml, design director Associates. >> Um, I believe this is a sites meeting.
What color do you want to know about? >> Oh, I I just out of curiosity cuz it had been asked before about the color. I didn't know if it had been settled on yet. >> Uh, for the station, >> the color Oh gosh. No. Um, we're trying to stay within a color
range and a concept of you know being on the cape. >> So we have not decided on colors of the roof, the facade or even
the garage doors. Okay, >> those that's a whole different meeting that we'll have a lot of debate on and we will be able to give you renderings and options at this point. >> Okay.
>> At at a future time. >> Okay, >> sounds good. >> Um and signage, there's no signage. >> Again, the same thing today. We're here for the site. >> Okay. um >> signage. Um we that's a whole another
wonderful package of creativeness that we want your input for. >> Okay. Well, we have a signed bylaw. I did ask the chief uh but he he thought that, you know, it wasn't going to have, you know, any >> there's no neon >> anyway.
No. Yeah. It's not going to be like the police station one that never gets lit up. So I mean the classic signage that you need like stop signs and things of that nature those are on the plans handicap signs we have those >> just for like >> but for for building signage >> yes
>> so we have to look at dark sky regulations um how to do something that could be a halo glow >> we have a lot of creativeness that we want to show you in the future >> but again >> today we're looking at site
>> and we look forward to showing you the other wonderful things that we can do for the architectural >> okay >> look on the facade because that's how the the community is going to see it >> right right yeah so I mean that is
usually is it is now incorporated in our site plan review so that's why I ask um is does anybody else in the audience have any questions do you have any questions Donna >> okay >> overall It's a great plan.
>> I still have one other >> comment and and >> you know I kind of feel like we're tailing Charlie's here, but I'm looking at the entrance to this public parking that's right close to that to that corner that intersection.
>> Yeah. >> And you know that that bothers me a bit. >> Okay. And um >> you know, but I but I know that, you know, where we're at now, it's it's it's it's a little late for wanting to move
that around or do something different with that. >> Yeah. Little little strap for ideal space for it for sure. Um one of the biggest things I would say is that there's not really just an ideal space for it otherwise. Um, if you think about
an emergency situation, you want the uh nearest possible entrance point and parking area and access to be, you know, kind of front and center and visible. >> Yeah, I understand you want at the front door. And you know, it just kind of lead
leads you to be making an extra turn there, right where somebody coming in on your on your tail end, you know, or you're you're trying to get out where somebody else is coming in potentially a little quicker.
>> Um, yeah, I I mean, I would say that's not really much of a different scenario than what could already happen in the existing situations, you know, the existing conditions, right? some I think you know somebody could be tailing you right now and you know you'd be pulling into the police station um with that
same level of difficulty. So I don't know if this really changes that. >> Well, but the police station comes directly off of directly off of Bedford Street. >> Sure. Here here you're you're maneuvering around a corner from from somebody
uh just >> so as a as a new as a new facility it's a great observation and I think that we can look at it I think we've given a lot of thought to it but
your observation is valid and we will look at it together. Yeah, if if if you could. I mean, I I was looking at it thinking, okay, you know, come in off of the the apparatus pad and I understand, you know, what the
what the issue is there that you're trying to >> Yeah. >> stay away from it. You know, >> I mean, there's so many different components and access points and visual things, but you picking that up, it's valid for us to look at it one more time. >> Mhm.
>> Okay. if you could at least think about it. I mean >> Oh, definitely. >> I you know, you know, I I see where where we're at. And >> well, I mean, I guess so. The way I see it, this is more accessible parking.
Anybody who's going to visit would use that back >> parking lot, too, or just for the employees. >> It's got a gate on it. >> So, >> that's employees. So if you can see that >> um maybe you can go through >> there is additional parking obviously
right here at the gravel lot and the the police station. So I mean if there was this like this hypothetical situation where you were in an unsafe position to park here, you would have the ability to continue to the police station and park here and also go to the gravel lot here
if you were unable to make this turn for whatever high speed reason I guess. But um you know in terms of accessibility, this is perfectly maneuverable by a passenger vehicle uh in in the in the currently designed state that it's in. >> Yeah. I mean it's
it's a very normal thing when you do a site plan to make sure that you don't have driveway entrances and exits right near an intersection, right near a corner. You >> you move them down, you know. So the the
um the gate is across the back parking lot where it hits this entrance to Ted Williams. >> Correct. The bottom left corner of the sept where the septic system would be. There's you'll see uh there's going to be a gate there. >> Okay.
>> Are they pulling in through that gate or are they going around through the front and around the back? >> I think it's going to be open and like sort of during um I actually don't know. That's a sort of a fire department functionality question. I don't know what their intention. They They told me they want a gate. They're going to get a gate. But I I don't know if they're
going to keep it locked all the time. If they're going to keep it open all the time, that's kind of at their discretion. >> What about deliveries of like food supplies? That's the way with those trucks. >> They would open the gate for for any kind of deliveries. >> Yep.
That's and that's sort of these these parking spaces back here and this general area back here is um kind of doubling for that kind of availability >> cuz so from the front bedroom entrance they only want the trucks you know >> going in and out there >> only want the trucks. So,
I mean to me I I would think that the gate would make sense on the other side of the parking lot so that nobody can access in here and have that as but yeah I guess I'm surpris I'm surprised that it's at the the front of the parking lot.
>> Yeah. And and >> you know if you if if you are saying that potentially utilizing this parking lot over here then I would think we'd need to do something about marking a crosswalk. >> Oh yeah. >> Is this a question we should be addressing to chief? I mean obviously
that's what they want to give input to you folks. So I would think that we all should be get O'Brien back in again. Uh, I mean the in terms of accessibility across the fire station to the rest of
the park. Um, I think that would be a a a larger question for the town of uh, Lakeville and potentially even for the recreation department who runs this property, operates this property. It would be more or less a question I believe for them um given that it's it's not necessarily implicated by the functioning of the fire station but the
functioning of the site as a whole someone parking in these public areas which you know obviously we know even looking out there tonight that um you know this place sort of swells up with parking and so um you know I'm sure that someone attending their child's soccer game or
baseball game or something like that is going to try to use those spaces >> sense they're trying to keep those out >> certainly accessibility but that's not I don't know if that's necessarily under the umbrella of the fire station's um development, right? Because that's that's sort of a recreational deal where
uh you know a case brought on by the rest of the park is implicating a fire station. >> Well, I wasn't I wasn't looking at it from the rest of the park as so much as I was parking for the fire station. If
somebody if you're saying that one of the kind of overflow ways of parking for business at the fire station was to park here >> certainly >> then you're walking across that driveway and I'm saying then >> well the the the intention is for the
public to park here and be able to access the fire department there. >> Yeah. >> And I think that was the first question is that >> we got it there. It's a complicated issue.
>> Yes, I know. I I know. And I know. >> All right. Well, >> do I know this camp really I mean I'm making a making it dig deep and diving deeper in but will there be a and this is beyond I know the architectural interior stuff but will there be a
meeting room in there like like we're in here right now >> there is the intention to have a meeting room and that's something that I had to learn uh very unfortunately through the septic design process I my thought was that the meeting room was only for the training of staff and uh I was false in that assumption and I learned that there
is in there is some intention to have public meetings there. I I I'm not sure in what capacity the town of Lakeville intends to use it, but there will be public meetings. >> Now, they what are they using for parking for that? Cuz >> four spots is a little >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I think in in that kind of
scenario, you would open up because it is it is, you know, available for about 40 people that that meeting space and you have almost 40 spaces on site already. Um and so between the public parking and the uh you know myriad parking spaces that we have here um you
would have that availability to fit most of the people there. Otherwise you would have um the overflow parking that's already around. >> Okay. >> And I and I I understand and I completely understand why they want to have a secluded employee parking lot similar to how
>> the police station has their own to keep their vehicles out of the public >> um access. That's it. >> No, it's a good question. >> So, to reflect upon that, yes, there's a training center there that can be opened to whatever you need it to be. And then,
of course, you always have the police station. Yep. >> As parking. So, >> right. And then the Ted Williams, the whole area. >> So, that's been the general conversation in regards to parking from the committee. >> And I don't know if there's really any plan to shift planning board, concom
zoning over to the station. And I think this is really meant to be that public meeting setting. So, you know, I I don't know one way or the other if there's an intention to be that many public meetings there, but I know for certain that the line of share of the public meetings that occur with Lakeville likely aren't just going to move to the
fire station. >> No, I think that that building >> but as another option, I believe. >> Yeah, correct. >> I also think that that that building primary use is a little bit different than this primary use where fire station that's their home where the police are out out and about. So that's fine. We'll
we'll go on. We'll leave it from there. >> Okay, >> we'll leave that one alone. >> So, um you know, typically we have a decision with conditions. Obviously, this is going to be a little bit different because dealing with the town as opposed to, you know, any sort of a shity and all that.
Um so, we would probably whittle it down. >> Well, it's site plan, >> so there's no there would be no shity or anything like that because it's only site plan approval. So, um, yeah, you would go. >> So, I'm just trying to think of what
else we would I mean, everything else that, >> um, so it would be a standard site plan review, you know, a site plan approval um, decision. Okay. >> With conditions, with findings. >> Um,
I'm not sure. >> Oh, it's the fees that we asked for. That's what it is, the fees. But, so we we've already >> Yep. >> We're good with that. Okay. And then add the findings >> as you had suggested.
>> Um, do we think that this is something we want to approve conditionally? I mean, they've already gone board of health and conservation. Conservation did the stomata peer review. At this point, I don't know what else.
Yes, Chuck. I mean, I'd like to go back to my earlier comment, and I surely don't want to have any more meetings that we already have. >> Yeah. >> And I think you gentlemen done a great job, but I would think you would be good, mindful of the questions have been bantered back and forth to have the fire chief here to let him say, "This is why
I want that key, but this is why I want that parking here." I mean, we're making these decisions devoid of him, >> right? Well, so I mean, there is a committee. They've they've held public meetings. you know, we could watch them and and hear those conversations as well
as what has been had. Um, >> and all of our design, pardon, all of our design decisions have been in parallel with the fire staff. >> Okay.
>> But also on the committee, we have the zoning enforcement. We've got a member of select board. >> I forget who else. >> Commissioner, >> right? um town administrator. Um >> so I'm assuming that they've hashed all these things out.
>> Yes. I mean nothing that we're showing here wasn't something that wasn't properly vetted by the fire department staff. Uh almost as a whole, you know, it's it's it's one thing to go to the fire chief. It's another to go to all the staff in the fire department uh and
ask about the folks who are operating the apparatus or cleaning the station or doing whatever. Um and those are folks u Sosha and myself have also consulted to make these decisions. So um this is this is a very human- centered design and all the features that you see are to cater
to that. Mhm. Right. >> And I mean our main question is about the gate and the parking. Do we want to send a question about those things? >> Further clarifications, >> something with that we can easily do
further on in design, development, construction documents. >> We we're not just letting this stop. There's a whole another process and other steps that we're going to be presenting to you.
>> Okay. So, I mean, we'll continue it anyways because you you do plan on coming coming back and >> Okay. >> I'd like to seek approval. >> I mean, you you asked about, you know, when when
it first sat down, you asked about color, >> right? >> Oh, that is another wonderful >> step that I will be involved with. >> Okay. >> We have a lot more time together here. >> Okay. Well, I have I mean I have to laugh. You've got elevation drawings
somewhere. >> Yeah. So, I had I had grabbed a set of plans from um Kathy's office that had it was on the back. I don't know why was it not >> Yeah. I mean I knew >> the original and that's where Yes, this
is revised. I had the original. >> Oh, okay. I I I was going to laugh and say the the architect on the board is the only one that doesn't have the architect. >> Sorry. >> Yeah, it was under the original filing. All the >> trying to hide it from the one guy who
might say something. >> Yeah. So, it was submitted in the original filing. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, do we want to send a memo back asking a couple questions in regards to the parking and and um
>> the gate? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Be fine. >> Um >> so, what's our So, we're going to send the questions back, but we looking to do an approval. We have to set the conditions first, right? Why don't you um if you're if you
have a question that needs to be answered, why don't you in the meantime draft your decision >> and at least you have a skeleton decision you can work off of. >> Yep. >> So at the next meeting you can wrap everything up. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that sounds good. So we can send send back a question. The planning board
had questions about parking availability um the gate as well as the um location of the >> front parking lot with the turning radius or or how >> I I mean I recognize that there's probably not much you can do right
exactly on that. I mean whether or not you want to make them include in in their work uh markings for a crosswalk. >> Mhm. >> I would be worried about stepping on
recreation's toes uh or the toes of the police. already have, but uh >> sure that's sort of, you know, predicated on the fire station, but um I would I would love to get recreation's input on something like that cuz I I don't know what they would want, where they would
want it. Um I wouldn't want to just put start putting things on the plans that affect the rest of the site that we weren't sort of handed by them um without their sort of notice and um recommendations and whatnot. >> Okay. So, in the meantime, we'll draft a
set a standard set of conditions. >> Yep. >> With that finding um and we will continue to >> August 14th. >> Yeah. Does that work for you? August
14th. Well, as as a a country architect, um, one that doesn't apparently go to these meetings a lot. May we get approval
for these sites in conditions of meeting the requirements that you said about parking. Well, so I don't think we are trying to impose conditions about the parking, just more of like clarification on those.
>> Of course, I I'm just trying honestly I'm just trying to get a vote says yes and then we will design to >> But so if we if we close the hearing this evening, we wouldn't be able to get more input from you. So we don't want to close it. So we we want to leave it open. We'll we'll draft. Right.
>> Exactly. I mean, I guess if you get something in writing from, say, the fire chief regarding the parking, I'm not sure they need they need to come back. >> Mhm. >> Because all you would do is you would get the answer and then you would take your decision that has been you need to draft a decision in any event. >> Yeah. >> So, you're not losing one minute of time
by doing what you're doing. You would still have to vote on your decision at the next meeting. So um here all you're doing is you're leaving it open right >> to gather you know information in the next >> two or three weeks. I think it might be three weeks. >> Three weeks.
>> Two weeks. >> I guess one of the one of the questions that I have is what would >> the let's say the answer to the gate question I I mean I've answered the gate question, right? It's it's so that the fire personnel can have their own separate parking lot. That's why it was
asked and that's why we're doing it. Um what is what is the nature of the gate question that's going to change someone's mind on uh like approving a fire station I guess is is is what I don't understand
>> right it's not it's not the approval it's the it's the decision that you have to they have to vote on a decision the decision has findings and then the decision has conditions and so they have to vote on that so they would be voting on that at the next meeting in any event
>> right So all they're doing is leaving it open to get gather further information. >> But >> much to your point, we're not losing time. >> Correct. >> Honestly, I draw pretty pictures for a living.
>> I appreciate your your time and education >> and us is yours as well. So I think >> so. So yeah, cuz even if we closed it tonight, we would still have to wait till next meeting to vote on it.
>> You don't have the condition. So all we're going to do is like we did on the last on the last item we had was that we closed it and voted right >> on the on the ADU. You had the draft decision and you voted on it. Correct. >> Right. We close it and it voted on the same day. So that's all we're doing is leaving it open in case something comes
up between now and the 3 weeks. >> Right. Because I I mean obviously as far as you've gotten, I don't see any of this changing at this point. And um I think just some clarification maybe what do how how do they see that gate working operating? Is someone going to be
manning it? Is it going to be automatic? Is it key card? I don't know what they have in mind. >> There's we're not running any conduit to it. So it will be manual. >> So it is manual. >> So that I mean that begs the idea that it might be just left open. >> So it could be left open, right? Okay.
>> At certain times and then close at other >> Yeah. It may be at the discretion of the fire department for public safety use, >> right? That makes sense. If there's like a big event going or >> Yeah, like um >> soccer, >> soccer, Saturdays and soccer, they'll close it. >> And if you have fire personnel tricking in in the morning, you wouldn't want to
just opening and closing it. That wouldn't be >> they have recently the town is to be Lakefield Day and they had the fire stations open. The kids come over and jump on where all these people going to park their cars. >> How are we going to make access to it
>> on the grass like they do for everything else? >> Yeah, >> they just park up and down the >> It does. It's very discretionary on the fire department's front really. >> Yeah. And they're public. It's always been public building. Um, >> and to me that solves the parking issue cuz if that's open for additional
parking needs then I'm not worried in the front >> or two >> because two hand >> meetings or whatever it may be. >> Um, >> okay. >> Do we want to bother sending the the questions then at this point or do you feel satisfied?
>> I'm fine. I mean >> I'm satisfied myself. I don't know if you >> s do you. >> Yep. 056. >> Yeah. I mean, let's just go through our our regular process here. Don't don't close the
>> Okay. So, we won't send the questions, though. >> No. >> Okay. >> So, we'll we'll d Yeah. Go ahead. >> So, we'll uh Well, I'll let somebody else make a motion to continue to >> I'll make motion to continue 28 Precinct Street to um our next meeting, August
14th, 2025. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? Uh I >> So just help me understand quickly. Would it be necessary for me to come back in the uh >> So we'll draft the decision and conditions. Ca uh Kathy can forward it
to you to review and if you have any comments, you can send it back. Otherwise, if you want to come and speak to anything, you're welcome to. If not, then >> would you folks need me to? Uh >> non nonless. So I I guess how's the conditions work? We wouldn't we wouldn't need you back >> because I feel as though it would be
more a little bit more whittleled down because it's a town. town. We all >> Yeah, understood. Yeah, I didn't think the public once you closed the meeting, I didn't think there was any sort of input period for me anyway after after that moment. >> Can I come back? >> Yeah, >> you want
pictures. >> You can come back and show us the pictures. >> We'd love to see it. I know that's been a question asked. So, I think as soon as it's known, I think everybody wants to know what color is it going to be. >> All right. >> I like you. Well, thank you all for coming.
>> Awesome. >> Thank you for talking. >> All right, I think we're good. Thank you. >> Thank you, Amy. >> Thank you. >> All right, agenda item number five, public hearing, definitive subdivision 92 Holland Road, which was continued to this evening upon the application of LMB
Royalty Trust for approval of a definitive subdivision plan submitted by Zenith Consulting Engineers for a two lot subdivision assessors map 12, block 2, lot 26, possible vote. We do have a request to continue from the applicant
to August 14th. If someone would like to make that motion, >> I'll make a motion to continue 92 Howland Road to August 14th, 2025. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? >> I I motion carries. The hearing is continued. We're going to
skip down to seven because we already handled six. Um OSRD update, possible vote. Actually, I'm going to wait until Kathy gets back. Um, so number eight, administrative update. On the next item down, Lakeville Hospital update.
We do have in our packets. >> There was an email that I received from the town administrator. He had reached out to um Rhino Capital just asking them for an update and
I don't >> I'm almost there. >> Oh, here it is. Okay. Um Oh, >> okay. So, the update is we are working all avenues on the demolition and remediation front. We believe we've identified a nonprofit partner to
support efforts towards being eligible for the mass development brownfield fund. However, those conversations are still very conceptual. I'll keep you posted as we make more progress. I wish I had more concrete feedback, but it's a slow and steady grind to get a project of this scale moving. We're hopeful to
see activity on site this calendar year. How are things going in Lakeville? Is the town still in compliance with the MDTA Communities Act? That will be necessary as we try to seek support from the state. And the answer to that question is yes, we are still in compliance. And um unfortunately, that's that's
about the extent of the update, but that's what it is. and I'd like to stay positive with that moving forward. Um, >> okay, let's see. >> Someone someone did say the estimate was around what, $17 million?
>> I think it keeps going up every time I hear. Yeah, master >> 15 or 17 or something. >> So, the um sorry um madam chair. So um grant writing so was a
a synopsis of the project and everything put together. What was it? Serpent that did that like >> oh >> so that was Kathy had reached out to Surfhead. So
actually I'll go back because we're on administrative update. We'll go back to OSRD. I I wanted to go back but uh so number seven OSRD update possible vote. So that's the open space residential development. Uh Kathy had reached out to Serpent with our question about using
the 20 hours and Serpent said well instead of using your 20 hours there may be possibility and so if you could so obviously Taylor cuz I was going to ask her and she's like oh no it must be someone else. So >> okay so she said it was I believe Michelle um but Danica is involved in
that also. So there's a grant available where they would take what you have, go through it, and you wouldn't have to use your hours. So the deadline was August 1, and you'll know by August 28th or 29th, I think, just the end of August.
Um, but she was comfortable saying it would be ready for fall town meeting, and I told her that's when we want it for. So, >> but I mean, town meeting >> warrant might close in September. And if they're not going to know until the end of August, like we're really getting
close and I do want to >> I want to bring this to town meeting. >> Um, sorry. What's the date for the war? >> I don't know yet. They haven't announced it yet. Has Have you heard? >> I thought they were saying it was going to open in August. I don't know.
>> Okay. >> So, I would assume it's usually open for about a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If needed, do you think we could go back and say >> so? We could send a placeholder if we if they can say yes, we'll have it, we can, you know, say tell the select board to
hold, you know, put a placeholder on the town meeting for fall. Um and hopefully maybe because it is just those three items and we work through maybe they will be able to help us because I know that was something that um master plan implementation they're
very you know adamant about getting that um seeing that come coming down and and Rita was even saying that we had a version from Serpent a number of years ago that they had drafted but my thought was let's not let's not start
>> I never saw her though But like I didn't want to go back and start with a new draft since we've already worked through with all the other boards and committees. So >> yeah, but they'll go through it and they'll say yes, you definitely need this or you don't or you should add. So I mean I guess this is like a really big
thing like we had gone to that um like little seminar >> you know you had the materials of what towns around or here are doing >> right. Yeah. >> That was extensive. So hopefully they'll be able to just >> maybe just do like Taylor did today and
come in for a meeting, draft something up or you know edit and then hopefully we can go forward with that. So I guess the only thing we wanted to vote on was because it was kind of a last minute thing. I just made the executive
decision to say yes um go ahead let them you know apply for the grant >> because it had a cut off date so that couldn't wait for this meeting >> but I know we had all agreed on several hours um so >> that's great
>> we want a vote to uh pursue funding whatever grant yeah >> that can if someone wants to make that motion >> make a motion I'll make a motion pursue the grant to for SERPAD to review our OSRD.
>> Second. >> Motion in a second. All in favor? >> I. Motion carries. >> And then >> back to number eight, administrative update. Um I did just read the Lakeville Hospital update, Kathy. So now we're on the economic development committee
update. We have your agenda from the meeting. Was there anything else you wanted to share? So Deian, the next meeting is August 11th at 6 o'clock. >> Yeah, I mean it was just an intro. I
forget the names. I I was going to watch that meeting uh today just to get the name of the chair and the vice chair. So I apologize I didn't have a good afternoon. Um, and I I don't think I included it just
as they had gone through the agenda like there was a grant that was applied for for economic development. >> Okay. >> Um, and that if they get that grant then that we'll kind of take a look at
the town have that plan >> which would be great. >> Yeah. And Andrew actually mentioned that during the master plan meeting too. >> Yeah. So, so and that was basically it though. >> And thank you again, Kathy. Appreciate
it. >> So, did they establish a standing meeting date? Is that August 11th? Is that >> like Mondays? I think it was the second or third Monday. >> Second Monday going forward at 6 p.m. And it's here typically police station >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Sounds great. And just the one thing that I when I was reading the charge talking about like um changing the different bylaws. So just my question would be like are they going to be working with that ZRA or is this something different? So that planning
board member is going to be >> really important. >> The ZRA >> Yeah. >> thing. Yeah. >> Well, so economic development and now zoning bylaw. Yeah. So there's going to be two new committees that are looking at zoning and we still don't have a planner. I feel like that's
>> going to say yeah that's still that that bridge that we are missing >> right. >> So >> do we know when the zebra meetings are like is that and that started? >> I haven't heard anything and they know that you're on it so they'll be they should be contacting you.
>> Yeah, that's what I was wondering. So hopefully >> not that I've seen yet. No, just the economic development. >> Okay. >> Um, anything else? >> Okay. >> All right.
Our next uh number nine, our next meeting is August 14th, 2025 at the Lakeville Police Station. Uh, we also have a joint meeting on August 5th with the select board. Um,
>> is that six o'clock here? But they start at 7:00. >> I don't know if I Let me look. >> I think they start their meetings kind of early. >> Well, they start earlier >> like two or six or something. >> I think two
six got a busy 6:30 on August 5th. >> So, are we the first um item usually? >> It was August 5th. >> 5th. >> Yeah, Tuesday. Oh, I I'm I'm not sure,
but I guess we can try to pin that down because obviously we're going to have to post a meeting for a specific time and I'm going to be away. So, John's I asked John to chair >> so that I can just call in and you know if my connection isn't good or whatever like I don't have to. >> Yeah. And I know Tracy was already
reached out to Lake Cam to see >> and she sent it so I do have it. I do already have the Zoom link so that's good. >> Um >> 85 814 >> and welcome Donna. Do you have any questions? I well I have a lot of questions stirring through my head but that's okay. Um I just wanted to thank
Kathy for you know forwarding all this the stuff and helping me the other day at the hall. Um >> and just a warm welcome and >> thank you very much. Let me know if there's something that I should be doing that I'm not. Um I did do my homework and read and you know getting to know
terminology and stuff. It's going to take a while but >> a lot of light reading. >> Yeah. Yeah, a lot of reading. >> We still don't pick things up. >> It is. >> What's that? >> No, I don't think so. >> Um, >> we talked about that with >> at the bell wave.
>> Oh, yeah. Um, you know, just the zoning bylaws. Read through that. Familiarize yourself with that. The rules and regulations. That's what we're working on updating with Serpent. So, what's there now? I mean, familiarize, you know, you could read through it, but it it that's what we'll be working on
updating with Serpent's help. Um, >> other than that, yeah, feel free to ask any questions if you want to chime in. Just let me know, you know, like if I if I >> sure thing, don't ask. But yeah, welcome. And >> we are trying to uh
skip the 28th. >> Yes. So, we're trying to forgo our second August meeting. So, usually it used to be we wouldn't have that last meeting of August. >> The last year or two, we've still had it because it's been so busy. But we're going to try to >> Yeah, we turn around at the end of the
year, too. It never happens. I feel like it's so so busy in December. >> All right. All right. So, at this point, would someone like to make a motion to adjurnn? >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> All right. We have a motion. Second. All in favor? Hi. >> Hi.
What do you think?