[music] It is 6:30 p.m. and we are meeting this evening at the Lakeville Police Station at 3:23 Bedford Street. We do have late cam recording. Is anyone else recording? Hearing none, I'm going to just go around the room and introduce the planning board members. Starting with associate member Donna
>> Donna Gay, >> John Cabraw, >> Michelle Mccern, [clears throat] >> David Lodge, >> uh, town council Amy Quessle, >> uh, Kathy Marie, Admin. All right, our first item on the agenda is a public hearing 6:30, special permit
for 160 Bever Street continued to this evening. A request for a special permit under section 270-7.412 to allow a commercial parking facility. Um so this item we do have another request from the applicant for
continuation that's coming from um their attorney. They're asking for a continuation to February 26 of 2026. My question on this is because we have had so many requests for continuation. We've only had their initial um
presentation and it feels as though this project has stalled. um it's not moving forward. We haven't gotten any new information, new plans. What would you recommend at this point? Would would we deny? Would we request to
withdraw? Um so you could um ask them to withdraw um ad you know the continuence I I think it's been at least six months >> been a year tomorrow. >> A year tomorrow. So that they since
they've come in here or since they've applied. >> That was their first meeting. >> That was their first meeting. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So that started the continuations, right? I believe they haven't come in since then. >> I think they did come in once for something brief. >> Okay. Um [clears throat] so you could
deny it for lack of information. Um the other thing that you could do, so they're here for a site plan. They're here for site plan review. Correct. And what triggered the site plan review? Is it the use or was it some kind of disturbance number? Do we know?
>> So they want a special permit for a parking facility. >> Oh, so it's a special permit. >> It's a special permit. So they need site plan review. >> Okay. So um they don't have that special permit obviously. And are they doing the use that is for this for the commercial parking facility? Are they doing it?
>> It appears they are. Yeah. >> Mhm. So, one of the things you could do is you could refer it to the um building commissioner for um enforcement because they are conducting a use that they are not allowed to because they don't have the special permit.
>> Um you can you know or you can in any event that's going to happen because they don't have a special permit. >> But um you can either ask them to withdraw it and refile it or you could deny it for lack of information. The issue with denying it for lack of
information is that if they do decide to um appeal that denial, um there's a good chance it would be remanded back to the board. >> Okay. So, it's probably better off to um
request that they withdraw. Is it without prejudice? Is that the >> Yes, they would have to they would have to um they would have to request um from this board to withdraw without prejudice and you would have to vote on that and and accept that.
>> Okay. So, we have to send them a letter asking to withdraw and they'll have to come back send it back to us. >> Correct. However, I'm not sure what I I don't know if that would accomplish what you're actually trying to accomplish. I I think another option could be um that
you relay to the applicant that if they do not attend the meeting on February 26th, then you will deny it without you will deny it for lack of information and that denial will preclude them from coming coming back in two for two years under 48 section 16.
>> Could we do all three? Could we send them a letter to ask to withdraw and let them know if they don't withdraw, we will be denying it on or >> yes, but but the withdrawal what that doesn't get us anywhere really because they're they're right now they're not in
compliance. >> So we'd still have to continue even if we do the request uh to to withdraw anyways. So we >> um yeah, you would have to because you have to keep it open until they actually do request to withdraw. So you you think actually sending um the
letter about denial would be more effective? >> Yeah, they have to come in on the 26th with with evidence to they have to come in ready to present evidence and testimony in support of their special permit. And if not, you will deny it for lack of information. >> Okay. >> I guess because you said when when's the
one year? Tomorrow. >> Well, when when we first heard him was was a year ago tomorrow, >> right? So all right. So you mean we'll we'll give them I think yeah I say the February 26 gives them two months >> to put it together. If not then >> I think >> conservation issues and and I don't know
that they've gone anywhere with conservation >> I don't and I don't I don't think they're using it as a as a commercial parking lot anymore cuz they were using it for >> I believe there are still the trucks still the track the yeah the trailers are still there but I don't think they're using it for what they why they
Yeah. So, could we also send a memo to the zoning enforcement officer as well? >> Um, just letting him know that >> or just CC him on the letter. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The word. Yeah. >> All right. Would someone like to make a
motion? We need a motion to continue and also to send >> just to direct the chair to work with staff to send a letter. Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. I'll make a motion to continue 160 Bedford Street to February 20. Was it February 26, 2026? And to
have uh madam chair work with it town count >> staff to uh draft a letter to the applicant. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? >> I I motion carries. Thank you. Um agenda
item number two, meet with Lloyd Gestner regarding the redevelopment of the Lakeville Country Club. >> Good evening. uh we're going to be using it making a presentation. >> Okay. So, I will move. Is it >> all right if we sit here? >> Yeah. Yes,
>> absolutely. Great. [clears throat] >> You want to move over? >> I don't want to I don't want to block you. >> No, I'm fine. >> Can we hit some of the lights or do you not >> um Thank you for seeing us. Uh for the record, my name is Lloyd Gisinger, president of Thorike Development. Here
with uh Michael Devon, our director of community relations, um our council, Matt Law, Robinson and Cole, and Cal Harvey, who's taking notes, and we'll be helping out on this process. Um before I get started, uh we I know there's been
some conversation between uh Matt and town council about um uh different alternative ways of proceeding from here. Um we had uh we have I should say put together uh some slides that are um
intended to provide you with information about how we feel the site qualifies as an eligible location under uh the uh chapter 40 modifications that were made in in in 2020. I'm sure council will get
into that a little bit later. Um and I know that um from our perspective we're we are anxious to uh get some clarity if not tonight over a reasonable period of time uh both where the board feels
relative to this issue and potentially the commonwealth also although that is less important. Um, so what I'd like to suggest is I'll run through the slides that we've put together. Um, and then we can uh talk about um how they fit within
this process and what next steps might be as alternatives. Um, and this will hopefully us. Okay. Okay. So, um, this will only take about 10 or 15 minutes. Um, we have an
overview, uh, since I know we're being, uh, televised for those who might not have been involved in some of the earlier presentations. Um, a discussion about the eligible location enabling legislation. Um, and then a few slides as to how why we feel the Lakefield
Country Club qualifies as an eligible location. And then we can get into next steps. Um, so, uh, as I believe everyone's aware, the project site is the Lakefield Country Club, which is off of Clear Pond Road near Route 79 in
North Lakefield. Um, this is a zoom in of the site. Um, you can see Clear Pond Park directly across the street to the north, Route 79 up above and Clear Pond Road coming through. Um
right now uh the property which is about 140 acres um is uh consumed with an 18hole golf course which is active and played regularly a clubhouse um which is up at the the top of the uh up here at
the top of the uh screen and it's parking lot that goes with it as well. [clears throat] All right. Oops. Right. Um, since we were here last, um, we have made some modifications to the site plan that are material. Um, at our
last meeting, which was a joint presentation to the select board and the planning board, there was a good deal of discussion about fourstory multif family buildings that we were showing. Um the overall program for the site has not changed. Um and that is to convert the
18-hole golf course to a 9-hole golf course which would be upgraded along with practice facilities. And then a combination of multifamily senior condominiums and town homes that would principally be in uh duplex lots which are shown at the bottom of the page
here. Uh this plan entirely eliminates the four-story buildings so that these buildings are all now three stories. Uh the one slight variation on that is this primary building in the middle which would have is the only building that
actually has a garage parking below it. Uh the ground slopes down from right to left on this screen and uh facing the golf course on the back side here at that lower level would be six direct entry condominium flats. So technically
I think this building would probably be considered a 3 and 1/2 story building but from the perspective of anyone viewing the building um it's it would be three stories on this side and then the lower level mentioned on the other side. All the remaining multif family
buildings now are shown as three stories and okay this is [snorts] hard to do when I can't see it. There we go. Um so again just uh these are not new slides but just to as to uh uh
refresh um the multifamily uh condominium buildings shown here are three stories. This is the exact building that we are currently uh building in in Halifax at a community called Featherwinds. Uh the very first building, it will start uh conveying
homes in January, so it's very close to being finished. Um I'd encourage anyone who hasn't been by to take a look. Um but these are threetory 36 home senior condominium buildings. really very very similar to what we have in mind um for
the Lakeville Country Club property. This happens to be the Halifax uh site plan showing uh several buildings around the central green a pool house and pool. Um shifting. Did I go the wrong way here? Going
backwards. Okay. We are struggling here. I apologize. >> Put the lights on the back or >> Yeah. You know, a little light would help. [laughter] I can't see the controls here. There we go. >> I don't want to. Hold on. It's too much.
>> That's not bad. Thank you. >> That's Yeah. Well, now I can see what I'm doing at least. Um, okay. Just a few more shots of these same uh three-story condominium [clears throat] buildings. Um shifting down to the uh duplex lots that are part of the plan. Uh these
happen to be images of uh uh duplex town homes that we're building right now in Plymouth at a community called Alden's Reach. Uh this would have primary bedrooms on the ground floor, secondary spaces on the second floor. Um these are
very similar to what we have in mind um in Lakeville. So uh in addition to the multif family uh development that we talked about, there would also be a restaurant which has been relocated and cited here on the
plan as its own uh standalone building. Um and of course the golf course itself would be um refurbished and uh modified into a 9-hole course. Um and just a couple of images um of the
kind of quality we expect to bring as we renovate the golf course. Very important component of the program as well is introducing practice facilities, um driving range, areas for putting and chipping, um a new clubhouse. Um all of this is part of the the program for the
property. And as I mentioned, um what we would anticipate would be a freestanding uh 12-month out of the year restaurant. Um with that as a as an overview, uh shifting gears, um th this next part of the presentation gets into this issue of
eligible locations. So, for those of you who are not familiar, um back in 2020, the legislature introduced an option for communities, not a requirement, an option for communities, um to consider
uh properties that were uh seeking zoning changes or town meeting action and that if to the extent that they encouraged housing development, uh that they could be considered as a simple majority vote as opposed to to a 2/3
majority vote. Um the uh the uh housing the uh EOHLC has put out guidelines. This is uh taken from those guidelines. It's a Q&A and just reading uh what kinds of zoning ordinances or bylaw can
be enacted with a simple majority vote. Um, under the newly amended section 5 of the zoning act, a zoning ordinance or bylaw can be enacted by a simple majority vote rather than a supermajority that applies to other zoning amendments if that ordinance or
bylaw does any of the following. And the first item in the list is applies to uh this project which would be allows for multif family housing or mixeduse development as of right in an eligible location which then brings us to the second
important question in thinking about this which is how do I know if a particular land area qualifies as an eligible location. Um and again in the answer it describes that section 1A of the zoning act defines eligible
locations as areas that by virtue of their infrastructure, transportation access, existing underutilized facilities or location make highly suitable locations for residential or mixed use smart growth zoning districts.
And in giving the examples, um, two that particularly apply, um, that we'll get into in a moment are areas near transit and areas near existing rural village districts. So, this is all included in the package that we submitted to the planning board
um, in preparation for this meeting as well as the link to uh, this these exact uh, pages. I've got just a couple of slides here that I wanted to share with you. Again, these were in the booklet that were sent to you. Um, but these explain how it is
that we believe very strongly that the Lakefield Country Club uh property qualifies as an eligible location. Uh, the first as this um exhibit shows is there is a continuous commercial business district that stretches up into
Middleboro and down almost immediately adjacent uh to the property. So, the Lakeill Country Club, which I believe is the largest underdeveloped business own property right now in town, is directly adjacent to the Lakeville Middleboro commercial business corridor, which
includes the new Middleboro commuter rail station, which in itself is an important connection. Um, oops, sorry, not my day here on this. Um the second and probably the most significant factor um has to do with its relationship to
the municipal water system. So as I'm as I know everyone in this room is aware a very small percentage of the town of Lakeville is actually serviced by the municipal water system. As it turns out um this property is within a half mile
of the existing system. Um and we would propose extending that water line down to the property um as part of the uh development program. It is incredibly hard to develop housing at density um if
it's not on municipal water. you can deal with the wastewater through a wastewater treatment facility, but to have both a wastewater treatment facility and a municipal water system uh is very very difficult in meeting all of
the various D requirements. So when thinking about important existing infrastructure and the potential within Lakeville for a community to be built like the one we're proposing, the adjacency of the property to the existing m municipal water system
is a very important consideration. We are also directly across the street from the Clear Pond Park, which is an important facility, somewhat underutilized today, could would very much benefit from a um a re refresh. Um
and as part of that, something that we would like to do, uh it would benefit both our our homeowners as well as the town at large. um introducing new play equipment, refurbishing the fencing, the the the um area next to the water,
possibly introducing pickle ball courts, things that we'd like to work with the parks and recreation commission and the planning board in plotting out a program for that. That brings us to uh talking about how
this all fits within a within the the program that we're discussing with you, namely going before town meeting in the spring. Um and I'm going to turn this over to Matt this to talk. >> Yeah. So, thanks Lloyd. So, I think the um the the way that Lloyd has laid this
out, I think does make it pretty clear that sort of there are two components. there's both the type of development that's proposed under the under the zoning that's going to come um and then discussing the eligible location. I'll just start at the I'll sort of cut to the end. The the suggestion um that
we're making is that the board could make use of um through the town administrator of the state's offer to municipalities to start with um an advisory opinion from the state to submit information to the state with respect to a particular
location and then have the state come back and tell tell the municipality yes we think this is strictly on an advisory basis. This is not dispositive, but we as the state view this as an eligible occasion as you are pursuing your own local process. We think this is
valuable. Um, especially once we get down the road as a as a a sort of foundational element for the posttown meeting sort of attorney general's review knowing that another state agency has looked at this. Um, as Lloyd indicated, um, what we're considering in
terms of the of the resoning would be an overlay. Um it would provide for multif family mixeduse development as of right as the statute indicates. Um and it would just be subject to site plan review. So it would not be not be sort of unreed. It would be done with site plan review. Um, one point to make about
this is the statute is silent as to exactly who makes the determination, but it certainly starts with the planning board and the advice from the state and I think generally speaking is the way to approach it is that the planning board as it is considering the zoning amendment changes that are that are
going to be coming at some point soon. Um, moves forward and says that yes, we think this is a location. So at that point it's important for the planning board to sort of make that determination and pass it through the entire process through town meeting. Um so I think this
board will be at some point um taking an opinion with respect to whether this is an eligible occasion. Um I don't think we're we're not asking for that tonight. I think all we're asking for tonight is that the board authorize the town administrator to proceed with with a request to the state for an advisory
opinion. So I think that's really the only thing we're asking for. And and as Lloyd said, this is not something that's required. We think this is a good idea. We think it's worth doing. Um, you know, it is what we did in Halifax as a first step toward the reszoning we did there. So, we think it we think it has value.
Um, but it's certainly something we're willing to discuss with the board as a as a as a concept. So, I think I'll stop there. That's that's helpful. >> That's all we that's all we had and love to get into a conversation about it,
answer any questions you might have. All right. Um, can we do you want can we take this down or you want to leave it on? >> Whatever you want to do. >> Leave it for now if you could. >> All right. Um, >> you want more lights on? >> We're going to say everything except the
last switch. >> Well, if we turn the lights on, then I don't think this will be as busy. >> Well, leave that one off. Leave Leave this one off. >> The one right above us here, >> that's on a separate switch. >> Yep. >> You still see it? >> Okay.
>> All right. So, um Amy, would you like to give us some advice regarding this proposed um request? >> Sure. So, I think um I think first and foremost um you can't vote on anything
tonight to send to recommend or send anything to the town um administrator, which I I actually think it's the select board that has to make the um request, not the town administrator. But in any event, your agenda simply states that you're having a presentation
>> and so um that would be an open meeting law issue. So, um, you know, the agenda doesn't say anything about, you know, voting to make a recommendation, etc., etc. Um, putting that aside, it's not at this point, it's it's absolutely not um
necessary to do. Um, the determination of eligibility should come from the planning board. Um, in fact, in every single um MBTA zoning article that we did in the past couple years, it was
always the planning board. There was never I I don't recall any time that that our firm represented a town that had a advisory opinion from EOHLC. Um, and so it's definitely the planning board's discretion. You guys are so-called boots on the ground. You know
your town. You know if it's eligible, if it's not eligible. Um, so it's not it's a it's not necessary. It's like he said, it's advisory only. >> Um, it's absolutely not necessary. Um, b it's your job to do in my opinion, not
EOHLC's. But also, we can't do that. You can't make that determination of eligibility until you have the actual zoning amendment in front of you. So once you have that zoning amendment in front of you and it says um multif family by right only site
plan you know etc etc then you can decide if it's an eligible location. Another thing that you have to to keep in mind is um will this will this zoning um amendment you know allow multif
family housing with say zero setback and that would affect your decision on if it's an eligible location to do that in or not. I'm assuming it's not going to say that. I'm that's a exaggeration, but um it's important that you have the actual proposed zoning in front of you.
And then once you have that in front of you, um you start obviously you have your 4DA section 5 public hearings like you've had in the past and that's when you need to make that determination of eligibility. >> Did you have any questions, John? >> No. And the only other thing I would add
is that um the eligibility is laid out in 4DA section 1A. Um so there's really no there's no guessing. You know, you you decide if it's just as the slide showed if you know is it underutilized, is it near a commercial, is it near a
transportation >> um area, things like so it it's pretty cut and dried. >> Did you have any questions, David? I have questions that aren't necessarily related to the uh >> Well, so just pertaining to that. Do you have any? >> No.
>> John, did you have any? >> Um my my opinion is um if we were to do this as a planning board and say, >> uh we determined that this site is eligible and they only need a simple
majority at town meeting rather than the two-third zoning um change majority. I think it would actually hurt your cause. Um, I think there's a lot of people in town who would see it as the planning board trying to pull one over on us. The
planning board is trying to push this project forward. I think I want to I want to see a port I support this project and I want to see and support a project that can pass town meeting with that two-thirds majority and I I don't
think um I don't think a simple majority is going to help as much as it will probably hurt and cause suspicion and all sorts of problems uh related to that. Um, that's just my experience with
the residents, just knowing um the history here and that people are quick to mistrust and and um I I think you know, like I said, I want to see a good project that we're bringing to town meeting that we support
and and we all we've talked about senior housing. We've talked about a senior overlay. This board supports an overlay. Our master plan speaks to it. It is something that this town acknowledges that we need, we want, we support. Um, so I think it would be actually
detrimental to to do this rather than um going forward with a two majority. But that's my that's no, Madam Chair, I I agree. I know where where you're coming from with that. I'm just trying to think of is there a way that we could I I guess the the eligibility, right? So
then it kind of it had not as much of an uphill battle for you guys to get that that vote passed and to move forward. Um I'm just trying to think of a way. Is there is there a way to I guess be more upfront? Like I I don't mind like the us determining that it's an eligible location. Again, we're in support of it.
We we like the presentation you've you've put on, but I'm trying to Is there a way to kind of more educate the town? Obviously, we don't have a whole big crowd here to do that. I'm trying to think of to >> and I I don't mind it's not a public hearing but if anybody here wants to
speak to this you know specifically like I'd be you know welcome to hear your input if anybody has any feedback on this. So what they're asking is if we deem it as an eligible location then the senior overlay would pass with only a
simple majority you know a majority vote would pass it rather than the two/3s majority. So if anybody has any feedback on that. >> So Madam Chair, this is exactly why you want to wait until your 48 section 5 public hearing because it's a public hearing. Correct. >> So you don't want to make any
determination of of eligibility now, right? >> Because you could have your public hearing and you could have a million people come out and say, "We really want this project. This is a great project." >> Like you said, it's part of our master plan. Senior housing is is definitely needed in town. Um, and that might make
all of you vote for five, you know, five that it's eligible. >> Exactly. So, if we did get that support, if people showed up and gave that support at a public hearing, I don't see why we wouldn't. >> But at the But for us to just determine that without a public hearing, I think would be detrimental.
>> Can I make a couple? >> Yes, absolutely. >> First of all, thank you. Um, I mean this sincerely, we value the fact that you folks live in the town. you know your own constituents. We don't. So, um, we are we moved forward with this in large
part because it worked in Halifax. It's a it's an approach that made sense that the town adopted. Um, they sought an advisory opinion when Halifax did it. The logic behind it at least was that if the question came up at town meeting as
to whether or not the site was in fact an eligible location, >> they had the an official document, not a binding document, but an official document from the EO HLC um laying out the reasoning and the arguments. And I
think I provided you with a copy of of of that in early in this package and and that was helpful. It was helpful for the uh the board to not deflect but to to uh confirm that okay, you know, this is a
relatively new statute. Um there is a process that's been put in place specifically to aid communities in understanding whether or not this applies. Um and having that support
supporting documentation seemed like a good idea. It also from our perspective felt very helpful if there if it turned out that there was going to be any kind of a challenge uh at the when it went to the AG's office for consideration
because as I understand it Matt you're recommend to as part of your recommendation to town meeting that it was an eligible location you're supposed to lay out your your reasoning for that in the recommendation that you make becomes part of the record. I'm playing lawyer
here. I shouldn't. You have two good attorneys. But um that's the general gist of it. >> Um we were not coming to you, just to be clear, asking for any determination whatsoever. What we were asking instead was for you to um make a request of the
state to have an advisory opinion, which even if they came back and said, "Yes, we agree is not in is in no way binding on you. It's advisory." So the the the question the ask was um to request it of
the state. I believe that the planning board or the select board and there a couple other options can ask for that advisory opinion. So, the only reason we were throwing uh Andrew into the mix was because you don't have a a planning uh
director, and we figured that if you did decide to put the application together that he was a logical person to spearhead it. >> Um [clears throat] it's a big difference going forward with this process knowing that we have to get
a twothirds vote as opposed to a majority vote. I've been through a number of town meetings over my career and frankly um we we had we would certainly hope that we could get a twothirds vote but it's much more
challenging than a simple majority vote and that's just a fact. >> Now how did you do in Halifax? >> In Halifax it was a majority vote required. We wound up getting about a 95% vote. >> Okay. >> So um but we didn't know that going in.
>> Right. And um [clears throat] so from our perspective, it's it's a very I I'll say this and then I'll stop. It's part of this the law now. You know, for year for decades, 2/3 was the
standard whenever dealing with zoning. And so everyone here recognizes and understands that if you're going to make a zoning change, it requires a 2/3 vote because that's what has been embedded. Well, that's not the case anymore. That's changed there. The the statute
has changed. It is specifically changed to try and encourage housing where there's a perception that it needs help because there have been many housing proposals uh not in my backyard mentality in which they don't achieve that 2/3 vote. So while I appreciate
your perspective and I and I'm I'm not discounting it at all, uh for us it's a very very important issue and and getting the advisory opinion is not important. Um convincing the planning board that this is an eligible location
and that that should be part of your recommendation is a very important issue. One we can have a conversation about another night. >> Okay. Um, does anyone in the audience have any questions, comments about this?
If so, please come up to a microphone. >> Hi, Noel Ro. I live on Reservoir AB and you know, I don't have a lot to add. Um, only that clearly the owner of that property wants to develop it. Something is going to
happen with that property. And what has been presented to us on a few occasions I find personally more favorable than some other potential things. And I I just hope that people will
will take a look at this with an open mind and um and also realize that that we we could end up with something much less favorable on that property cuz something's going to happen with that property. It's not going to stay
the way it is. >> Now, do you favor a two-thirds majority or would you favor a simple majority vote? >> I don't know. I mean, I don't really understand how all that works. All I know is is um I can only, you know, tell you that
I like what I see better than what could happen with that property from another developer. Thank you, Mom. And I hope people will um understand it's going to change. >> It's going to change. It's not going to stay the way it is. So, um hopefully we
can Thank you. >> Anyone else? All right. Um >> um I have a couple other updates if I might [snorts] changing topics. Um as I know um a number of people uh in town, various department heads are aware. Uh
we have been engaged in a fiscal impact analysis. Craig Seymour um has been has met with everyone in town. Um, and we expect to be getting uh you and the uh and andrew and the select board a draft
of that next week. >> Okay. >> So, I'm supposed to see it on Monday and hopefully we can turn it around and get it to you uh certainly before Christmas. >> Excellent. >> Um, so that'll be something uh to chew on. Um, with respect to the project
itself and next steps, uh, Matt and I have started working on, uh, an outline of business terms, uh, for a master development agreement that we've talked about in the past, um, as a starting point and as well as, um, starting to
mark up some zoning for for him and town council to to chew on. And uh my expectation is that we will be getting you something uh also before the holidays on the mo on the uh the MDA the mass development agreement. So this is
not going to be an actual draft agreement. is going to be kind of a bullet point from our perspective um based on our experience how we think this might look for um for you and and the I presume the steering committee David that has been put together to take
a first look at >> and now when do you expect the draft of the zoning language m >> um I would say sometime in January no I think we can can meet that we'll be going back and forth on the text >> yeah just keep in And I think it the
warrant typically opens in March and closes in March, >> 30 days. >> So, um, >> yeah, make sure there's enough time to have it, you know, get it reviewed. And >> we're we're deep into our due diligence right now. We're we're we're working on
a dozen different fronts here. Um, we're uh doing uh uh due diligence on a wastewater treatment facility. Um, we've engaged with VHB engineers who will be the lead engineers for the project. um doing a preliminary traffic analysis.
We've been doing the fiscal impact study. Um we obviously were focused on this eligible location stuff and we're also engaged with natural heritage because this entire property is uh part of the habitat for eastern box turtle. >> So, um I don't really believe the
turtles are particularly good at golf, but uh um it's uh it's something that we need to deal with as a due diligence item. Um, so >> Madam Chair, >> yes. >> I remember um listening sessions being mentioned at a previous meeting and I'm
wondering where those fall into place. Um, >> do you have any listening sessions? >> Um, >> we we wanted to complete our due diligence work so that when questions come up, we actually have some answers. Um, we probably have about another month
uh to get through all of that. And and Michael and I were just talking about that the other day. It's it's a lousy time of year trying to say it's not, >> you know, we're we're ramping everything up for a real push right after New Year's. >> Yeah. Our meeting is next meeting is
until January. So, yeah. >> Okay. So, you see getting um the fiscal impact statement this month and then next month the zoning language and then next month potentially also the listening sessions. >> Yeah. We'll we're also going to get you,
as I said, a memo on the master development agreement, business terms. We'll send that to you before I'm that's on my plate and I'll we'll get that to you before Christmas so you can chew on it. Um and then we can talk about who the next steps are. I presume that'll be
with the the steering group that's been put together as a first pass. >> Okay. Um I I saw a hand raised. Do you want to come up if there's a question or comment about the project as a whole? animals. You said that the only the box
turtles, did they say anything about our red belly cooter turtle? >> We sent in an official request to Natural Heritage and the only endangered species that was listed was the eastern box turtle. >> Okay, just so you know, for the project, this isn't changing from what it pretty
much was. In the bottom right corner where there's an island of trees, that green moving up about halfway is where an endangered turtle species nests. This came up about 2 years ago when we were going to purchase it. >> And I'm sorry, I know if you could just state your name and
>> Oh, sorry. Brena Donghue 87 Crooked Lane. >> Um, so that is just something to be aware of, but that's not there. And then actually, if it's okay, could I ask another question, please? >> Sorry. You said that was the red belly. >> Yes. Um, and then what were the previous
numbers for developments on this property? Like I I >> You say previous on >> I didn't keep up with it. So you were talking about fourtory buildings and now it's >> the number actually went down. Um, so just slightly. It was 420 something, now it's 418. We added a building is what
transpired. We reorganized the site a little bit. Um and so that there's one more multif family building here than there was previously. So the mix of town home there are less town homes and more
multif family condominiums. Um so that's that's how we did that math. >> Sure. Where is the wastewater treatment facility? You mentioned >> that um [clears throat] right in the middle there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Oh the leing field will be underneath the driving and then the actual plant
itself. which isn't actually much bigger than a twocar garage in terms of size, is at the back of that maintenance facility. That is very conceptual. Well, no, let me rephrase. The leeching field will go where shown because that's the highest point on the site. >> Yes.
>> And we need that distance to groundwater. >> Yes. >> Um, as to where the actual plant goes, that remains to be seen, but that's the likely location. Okay. >> Thank you. Did you, Brena, before you go, did you have any feedback on um the site
eligibility determination? >> I think it's a really nice project, but I think you have too many numbers and I don't think it's going to be looked favorably at that. I think 275 would be generous on your behalf. I think
anything over 350 is kind of pushing it. So, I think it's a fantastic project, but your numbers might bite you. Thank you. All right. Anyone else have any other questions that weren't specific to that
item, but maybe could be answered at this time? No. >> So, um I just have a question. What is going to um what's going to make sure that the golf portions remain golf and that you don't come back in 3 years
and put more housing? Because your overlay, it's my understanding that the overlay is going to cover the entire parcel. >> So that means you would you would be allowed to do multif family housing as of right over the entire parcel. So is it going to be the master development
agreement? >> Well, it'll be a combination of things. One, it'll be the what you guys work out. Two, it'll be the master development agreement. But three, and maybe most importantly, it'll be in the master deeds for the condominium association that the golf course needs to remain a golf course. that can be
changed by by vote. So, um by vote of the condominium association, but are you anticipating >> necessarily >> with 100% you can vote you can vote anything you could change anything. >> Okay. >> Um would are you anticipating that the zoning is going and I'm I'm only I'm ask
I'm only asking this from a zoning perspective. I don't have a vote on this at all, but it looks like a very nice project. Um, from are you from the zoning perspective, are you um looking to put in an element of open space? >> Well, the golf course is the open space. >> That's what I'm saying. Are you is it
going to be a requirement of open space? And will that be that another safeguard? >> Yeah, sure. There we are 100% on board on restricting the the permits in such a way that when whatever gets approved is all that can get built. What is the percentage of I could do you even know
at this point what the percentage of the golf course is versus the developed I mean I it's hard because it's all integrated but I mean like I would consider the driving range as open space also >> pretty close to 50/50 I actually looks like it >> I actually have those we just did those
numbers today but I didn't bring them with me. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. And actually to building off of what you're asking Amy, um just knowing that we've actually seen some recent ANRS to to parceling off some small portions over here off of reservoir and hardcore area. Um if the
overlay goes over this whole amount and now those parcels are now under different ownership than the golf course, you know what I'm saying there? So, I think we'd just make sure that the zoning boundaries are um
confirmed before moving ahead. I think you want to just make sure which exact, you know, exactly which ones are in and which ones are out when we're talking about that overlay. >> There are some very important short stroke issues along um that area that we need to work out. So, >> okay.
>> Yeah. So, I'm I'm aware of the ANRS and and and it's all part of our due diligence, but we're working very cooperatively and it'll it'll get resolved. >> All right. Well, yeah. I mean, >> Oh, yes. Come up. If you could state your name for the record.
[snorts] >> Sorry, I got a little allergy going on. Paul McCel 330 Reservoir Avenue. Um, and I brought a couple questions with me really about the plot itself. Um, buildings one and two when that when
those are being built, do you know if they're going to be at that point already using city water or >> Yes. >> Okay. So, it's city water from the start. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Okay. And then Reservoir Avenue. Um I think as um she had mentioned that
31 and 33 might already be dedicated to some housing here doesn't quite show that. Do you know if Reservoir Avenue will ever go through or will it end right at that? Um >> we don't have any plans of connecting it. >> Okay. [snorts] So right now what's
showing in green, which I assume is grass, um is a parking lot, I think. And so that would just change to um >> I'm sorry, which one is Reservoir Avenue? >> Um I'm not >> near where it says easement right there. That that road up. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. >> Yeah.
>> Um no, we we don't have any plans of making a connection there. >> Okay. Okay. Great. I live on that road and hoping there's not not through street there. >> Um and as far as timelines go, I think in the last meeting you had mentioned it was going to be progressive like you build building one and then 70%
occupancy, something like that, and it goes to two and three. Do you know about the rough timeline for building the one, two, and three? >> Well, we are very much of a pacer driven company, and I don't say that lightly. Some companies are price driven, some companies are pace driven.
>> We are totally paced driven. And um we we expect to sell somewhere on the order of 75 homes per year. Okay? And if you look at the projects that we've built over the last 10 years, we have achieved
that pace on these types of multif family communities. Now, so it's a big project, right? So even at 75 per year, that's 6 years, right? And there's usually a startup year and an end year.
>> All day long, this is a 10-year project. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But we'll be done up in your neck of the woods sooner, >> right? That's what I figured it'd be progressive. I assume the building numbers might be the progression that you >> we we very much would expect it to proceed in sequence.
>> And then for price points, do you know what the condominiums might sell for like in those? >> Well, honestly, we we're using what we're uh marketing and selling in Halifax right now as our base point. Um we we think we can do a little bit
better here. I think it's closer to the highway network and uh a better location, but those prices range from the mid fours to the high fives. >> Okay. >> For the multif family units, the duplex town homes would be more expensive.
Those would be in the sixes in all likelihood. >> Okay. >> That's today's dollars. >> All right. Thank you. >> And just so you know, there is a nice um fact sheet that was put together. Thank you for that. It's available on the town website on the select board page.
>> So, they did answer all those questions that were asked at the last um joint meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Sure. Anything else? >> We're good to tie this up at this point. Um do you think we should continue this to
another meeting? >> You don't have to. It's not It was not. So, we'll just wait and schedule a public hearing the next time we see them and that'll be okay. >> Yeah. Great. >> Very good. Thank you so much for coming in. >> Thank you. Happy holidays. >> You too. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Agenda item number three. Review the following zoning board of appeals petition. Chlorite 12 Highland Road. Um so this one actually we got your advice on this one as well, Amy. Um because it was a unique situation, >> very unique. Yes.
>> Um there's some business zone on Highland uh Highland Road. >> Mhm. >> Um and they're looking to ANR it. But first they're going to zoning board for the special permit of residential and a
business zone. So if you want to Sure. So, um, so the question that came to me was, do they have to ANR it before they go to the zoning board for a special permit? And what we're dealing with here is we're dealing with, um, two different
statutes and two different boards. So, you know, under the subdivision control law, we have the planning board. Under 40A special permits, we have the zoning board of appeals. Um, what they're doing doesn't make a lot of sense, but once we know what they're doing, I I I get it.
um if they came to you with an ANR to create those lots, they do not have to record the ANR. So those lots, even if they're recorded, they really don't become lots until they're actually sold out. Um so they could come to you with
their ANR, get their ANR endorsed, and then go to the um zoning board and try to get the special permit. They're looking for some relief or some they're looking for some zoning relief. Um but they have said that if they don't get the zoning relief, they can reconfigure
the lots to um still create legal lots. And so then they if they went if they came to you, they did an ANR, they got the lots, then they went to the zoning board, they didn't get the waiver, whatever they need for their setbacks or whatever it is, they would then have to
come back to you with a new ANR plan. All of that can be done. It it's it's definitely something that's been done. Um, but it's not required. So, I I did do some research on this and there is no requirement that they have to come to
you first. Um, and so they're choosing to go to the zoning board with a um really really, you know, a sketch plan, I guess, because it's not going to be they can't really say to the to the zoning board, these are lots cuz they're not
>> um it's a proposed plan. [snorts] And so the good the good side of all of this is that you're probably only going to see them once. They're going to come to you once they know what their lot has to look like. >> Okay? So um but it's very unusual to do it this way.
>> Usually you establish the lot and then you decide you know if you need relief or not but I guess since they have options they've decided to do it this way. >> Okay cuz it was similar to what we had seen mentioned you know in this area the
reservoir area. So >> interesting. All right. I guess that's the logic. >> I just had a question too for the zoning board portion of it. So when they go in front of the board and they get that if they are granted a special permit for that business use and then they come to
the planning board and they create the a the first proposal >> and that causes a nonconformity, >> do they have to go back to the zoning board for variance? >> So it's like actually a three-step process >> if that's the way. Yes. So, um well, no,
I thought that they were they were proposing um they were going to show the lots that needed a var they were going to show the lots as needed with the variance. So, they could do what they could get the best they could get from the zoning board is um a a decision
issu, you know, a decision issuing the special permit and say if they needed a variance, the variance dependent upon the plan that's in front of them. So they can come back to the planning board and then get that get those lots established. But if they change those lots at all, they have to go back to the planning
board. I mean back to the zoning board cuz they they have two plans. They have a plan with the nonconformity and then they have another plan where it doesn't cause it. But I guess it's a very awkward shaped law. So their preference is the one that would require the v the variance.
>> You have two different >> which one do you know which one? >> You can look at the two law. >> So they they can present both of those to the zoning board. They can only issue a permit on one, >> but they can issue they could present that to CBA. CBA can decide yes or no. And then when
they come here, they can only present one plan. They can only endorse the one >> and depending on what one is endorsed here is if they have to go back, they go to the other one. Okay. [laughter] >> They'd be better off just coming here, getting a plan, going if they had to
reconfigure. I'm not sure they understand they can you can file a bunch of agon you just and you can record them even >> I was trying to figure out why there two different plans. Yeah. >> Okay. >> But then it's like goes down to 20 ft. It's like a little
>> Yeah, cuz anything under 20 ft doesn't count their lot area, but they don't need that. >> It's 20 It's 20.8. So it's technically over 20 ft. >> You're doing some creative plan. Creative engineering. >> Yeah. There's enough room to get like a car through to get up over there. And
what about >> Got to give them some credit. >> Yeah. What about the easement? Can they can the e Because they have that they have that big easement, I guess, for the other lot that's back there. Like there's an easement that goes through their >> their the circle there.
>> Um to see Are you asking if the easement counts as the lot area? >> Yeah, >> it usually does. Um >> unless it's specifically um excluded in your definition. So, I'm just looking. Um, >> and then I don't think I'm mad if the
existing house then becomes like it's on Unicorn Lane then goes from being on Highland to Unicorn. >> Mhm. >> Cuz the driveway is Well, then end up going >> Right. >> Which doesn't matter. You can do that. They just have to put a note on the the
front side. >> Yeah. No. Um, a lot is an area of land in one ownership with definite boundaries recorded in the registry of deeds in the land court. So >> with an easement, the fee owner is the same, you know, would be considered. So it's the underlying owner that's considered. >> Yeah.
>> So they should be okay with an easement. Yeah. >> All right. Well, do we want to send any comments? Is there anything? Um I feel as though we have they'll be coming to us. >> They'll be coming to you. So you really you really don't need to comment
honestly and um there's always a concern about um about commenting on projects that are going to come back that are going to come to you after >> um because you know if you had all you know just for example if you had a whole bunch of critical comments about it you
know somebody could say that you had a predisposition to deny it or something like that. So >> um you know >> but usually your reviews are very high level reviews so you're fine but >> usually we don't comment on residential but I mean business we do typically
commercial um unless there's something you know specific that we are aware of for we don't typically so >> so we'll uh does someone want to make a motion to send no comment to >> I'll make a motion to send no comment for 12 Highland Road to the board of
appeals. >> Second motion motion and a second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Fine. Passes. >> Thank you very much. >> I think we are good. >> Agenda. Okay. >> All right. >> All right. Have a nice holiday, everyone.
>> I don't owe you anything, right? >> I don't think so. >> I don't I don't Okay. Good. >> Okay. >> Item number four, administrative update. >> Okay. If I do owe you something, >> you're not going to get it. So, the 22nd, I'll be back in. So the
first item under administrative update is approval of the open space plan request for letter. Um we did already review the open space plan. We sent a uh letter of approval with a number of items that we were looking for them to
address within the plan. They've made those um corrections and now they want a clean letter saying that planning board um approves >> the plan. So, I'm good with So, I think I wrote the letter, the memo,
I think. Do you have a copy of it? >> I don't remember. I probably do. >> I'll I'll look for it and probably just take out those items and just send it cuz I think that's should be all we need. I'll get I'll send it over to you and then you can send it
over to >> whoever needs it. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, do we need to take a vote on that? We've already written the letter. So, we've already sent it. It's basically just saying that the same thing just removing.
>> Yeah. I don't I don't know that we need to >> the vote on it. It's just kind of we're the process we already approved. >> And Donna, >> if you like reading, it's a good plan. >> I do recommend this. It's so open space committee comes up with an open space
plan just like we have the housing production plan we have the master plan CP you know CPC has a CPV like it's [clears throat] another plan for that and for their purpose they actually are now eligible to apply for grants >> so because the town has that open space
plan now we can apply for grants for open space and parks purposes >> but it's it's just it's a great plan I I encourage anyone interested in reading it because it has a lot of history it's got a lot of antidote antid al information in their town history and
>> it's in their website on on the Lakeville site, right? >> It's on it is on the open space >> page. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> I believe the new one replaced the old one. >> I know. I saw it online because it was too big of a file to send. So,
>> all right. Um the next item is the Stowates Construction observation. In our packet, we do have a memorandum from Apex dated November 19th. Um Kathy, we're still waiting for a response from the developer on that. >> Yeah, he said he was going to send it to
his engineer for review. >> Okay, so we'll just keep that on >> how long that's been going for, too. >> Well, um I mean it's been less than a month, so >> Oh, no. >> The project itself. >> The project itself. Yeah.
>> Right. Well, they're Yeah, they're nearation. You know, I I I just reviewed the uh the meeting for >> 160 Bedford and it was on that meeting. >> Oh, yeah. >> A year ago. >> Well, at least they move forward,
though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think it's waiting for the spring from last. Yeah. Yeah. They I drive by all the time, so I used to watch them building. They sold that one house at the on corner >> on Yeah. on Rhode Island Road. um review and discuss new requests for legal counsel procedure in our packets.
>> Is that why she left? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> No. So we um this is now a new policy put in place by the select board. they um in order to utilize town legal services, they want each individual
board, committee, commission to fill out this form [snorts] um and have it. It actually says right at the bottom, Kathy pointed this out to me because I thought it just had to be, you know, the chair would fill it out. >> Yep. and submit it to uh the town
administrator for approval. But it says um you know individual members of boards, committees, commissions are not permitted to contact town council unless approved by a vote of the body, a vote of the body. So that would mean we would have to take a vote during a public
meeting prior to even utilizing council services. that could be detrimental to the town to not have Amy there for a a hearing because we couldn't get this form done without a vote. Um I talked to the town administrator about it. I
shared my concerns. He did say that um if we have a town planner, they would be able to fill out this form. However, we know that in the past 5 years of budgeting for a town planner, we've only had a town planner for about two years and two months. So, I don't think that's
very reassuring. I I am hopeful that we will have that position filled. I know the Slack board is >> on their next meeting. They'll be taking a vote on a planner. Um, and we're hoping that that person will start uh right after the first of the year.
Um my other concern about this is um just just knowing the different dynamics that can come along in town hall and in different boards, committees, commissions and if so if we were against each other and we were working together and voting
together like even that >> if we couldn't come to an agreement or if maybe the town administrator thought that oh this they don't need it for this. I just I do feel it. Um there's a few concerns with this form. At first I wasn't too concerned and then just, you
know, talking about it and thinking about it some more. It's >> it just kind of drags on things that we've already been told have been dragged on. You know what I mean? We we get we get called all the time for dragging things on and this will just on some of these bigger things. I think it'll it'll just drag it on more. No, I mean I I I
guess putting in the request I guess like keeping a tally of it is one thing but have the approval I guess the word about the approval part like not just hey we need time we need her we're going to this is a request for it and that's it but now you have to >> but to be voted on I guess is >> to be voted on. So the thing is I was assured that um for like a specific
project so for like 160 for it's a special permit we could just do it as like a blanket request >> for the project. >> Okay. Um, but I think I'd like to send a memo to the select board um, voicing our concerns if you guys agree and share the
concerns and and I think that the chair should be able to fill this form out in the absence of >> a town planner which cuz it says approved by board committee commission slash department head. So because we don't have a department >> department head
>> you know um or even to authorize Kathy to sign on our behalf you know that something like that there has to be another mechanism other than a vote of the board I think. >> Yeah absolutely. >> Um so that's one thing I'd like to send um
I think or maybe that's the main thing that there needs to be a better option another option other than a vote of the committee. >> Right. So I guess this is just I guess to >> is it make just to make sure we like not keeping us in check but keeping us like just to keep it >> a running list of
>> I think it's multiple thing I I think it was um something that the select put select board was going to put in place to to basically monitor themselves honestly but then >> make sure they're not like over like not >> because I think there were multiple
members asking for the same opinion council and then now council repeating themselves to multiple members. So, this was to streamline that process, which I understand, >> but we don't have that uh problem with this board. Uh and every time I reach out to town council, it's through the
town administrator or if Kathy reaches out to town council, it's through the town administrator first. Anyways, there's also the budget constraint issue. >> Yeah. No, that's I that's where I kind of was the the budget idea of it is that you >> So, since since the budget issues came into play, that's when we've had to go through the town administration. >> Yeah. We don't we don't have like we
don't have like set a lotments. >> So, we don't have a budget budget line item that is something maybe we could look into consider >> in the future. Yeah. >> Uh for the future. >> I could I could see this like if we like if we had a budget number like hey we have x amount of hours or x amount you
know I mean because obviously every time we get build for her time right she answers the question it's >> whatever 15 half an hour whatever it is for her to look into it. But if we had a certain budget and if we went over that then we have to request >> that's that's understandable. But if like we had a budget that we have but yeah because they said as long as
it's being coped I guess >> but and even to set a budget I think it's very hard for this board because you never know what's going to come along like >> then if you don't use it then it's you know what I mean you don't want them to take that off the top of overall thing >> or if we exhaust it for for like for
example the hospital property if we exhaust it for a project like that within like the first few months then um >> yeah there we have to do a transfer of town meeting and all Yeah, that's true. Maybe not. Maybe. >> But but I mean it's something to consider when we start talking about the
budget in a couple months. Um and so [clears throat] like I think the step right now I think I'd like to send a memo um requesting that the planning board be able to um fill out this form >> in the interim until we get it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Have have allow the uh chair to
fill out the form um in the absence of a of a department head. >> Mhm. because we don't have a department head and it it could be detrimental um to to the town. If we we need legal advice, then we can't have them for
a a public hearing. >> So, what would someone like to make that? >> Okay. So, moved. >> Sure. >> Kathy, you got that? >> All right. So, we have a motion. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? >> I >> I
>> carries. If you could put that memo together, Kathy, appreciate it. Um, 2026 meeting dates. We have them in our packet. >> Anything to note, Kathy? >> No.
>> Madam Chair? Yes. >> Um, Friday 6. It looks like 6:26 26 might be a Friday. Is that >> is it? >> I Well, >> yeah, it's 15 days from the 11th. [snorts] >> That could catch Maybe it should be 25. >> Yep. So 625
>> 7 9's good. No. >> And then I don't know. Do you try to stay away from April vacation, school vacation or >> we don't? >> Okay. >> No. just because ZBA meets on the third,
CPC meets on that third Thursday. Um, so we do just keep it some meetings, you know, if people have to miss, they have to miss. Um, as long as we have a quorum, we can still meet. >> Okay. Um,
and we have that second meeting in August started. We used to always try to >> take the end. Yeah. >> That meeting if we could. >> We didn't last year. Last couple years we haven't because it's been so busy. We might be able to. >> And then it looks like >> the same thing as this year, the last end of the end of the
>> Yeah. November and December, only the one meeting again, >> which is luckily it's worked out this in our favor this year. >> So, would someone like to approve the 2026 meeting dates for that not to change? >> Yep. I'll make a motion to approve the
2026 meeting dates with the one correction. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? I >> motion carries. >> Form B update. Kathy, thank you for catching this.
>> Um, yeah. So, there's supposed to be one coming in. So, when I looked it, I it wasn't posted on the website and then it was just kind of this. So, it was the only form that didn't have the checklist. So I went back to the rules and regs to see if there were things required which it is a very you know
smaller list but thought it would be a good thing just to add that in. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. Keep it all consistent with the checklist going forward. >> Any questions concerned? Do you want to make a motion to accept this form?
>> I'll make a motion to accept the form B. Second >> motion and a second. All in favor? I >> I. Motion carries. We have a new form B now. Thank you, Kathy. To go along with our A and C. >> Um,
Mass Housing Partnership Technical Assistance Program. So, actually Kathy had attended a CPC meeting uh back in August. We hosted Shelley Goring from Mass Housing uh Partnership. I believe
Emily also attend attended the town administrator assistant. She came uh to that meeting as well. >> Uh it I think CPC really appreciated the presentation. She did a slideshow. Um she shared because so there's the three
components of CPA. One of those being housing. Um, in our next meeting, we're going to meet with CPC and this can be one of the items that we discuss with them. Um, so she explained how CPA funds can be
put into a trust and then used for those specific purposes. You can um create a an a municipal agreement um at the time of the the vote. So CPA vote has to go to town meeting and then to determine
how the funds can be used. So you can say these funds are going to be uh placed into the municipal housing trust uh fund and be used for these specific purposes. And one of the very specific purposes that we had gotten a lot of good feedback on was to maintain
existing SHI units in perpetuity. We have 100 units expiring in about 10 years. Um, when we talked to Shelley, she said that one way to work at it is establishing a a trust. And she looked
on our bylaws and said, "You have it. You have a tr [clears throat] you have a affordable housing trust established. It was established back in 2005." >> Oh, wow. >> Uh, we didn't have CPA back then, but they did try back then for a CPA, I think. Uh that was probably around the
same time they the first try and then the second try um in 2012 and then we know it passed in 2022 for the third time it did pass and um now that we have CPA that's a a big portion of where the trust fund typically gets its money is
from CPA and working with CPA. Um so we CPA had um had sent a memo to the site board asking you know to consider bringing Shel in to present to them or at least to watch the meeting
and and we didn't we didn't hear any feedback from them but one of the things that she said and what this um technical assistance pro program does it um it lets the town work with her on
establishing the trust, setting it up, uh creating the plan basically, um the map for what their goals are, >> and it >> it seems like, you know, we we should be utilizing it, applying for it.
>> Um, for some reason, the select board, I think, I don't know if they didn't understand or didn't I'm not sure what the issues were really. um with it, but they have not appointed it yet. H >> um even though it's an existing bylaw
and um I think this would be something that could help establish that the trust and allow the town to have free assistance >> from Shelley Goring Mass Housing
Partnership in order to move forward with it. Um we can't apply. I I did ask if we could apply for it on our own. >> Um but um you know, we definitely need the select board um support on that. But
so I I'd like to send a memo to the select board um requesting that they um submit, you know, this for the assistance cuz you know, if the town
could get it, then why not? if you like do do you have questions? I know I kind of just I don't know if I explained it clearly or not. >> Yeah. No, I I I I just have the feeling the select board is just I don't want to say overwhelmed, but they just don't want to get involved in something else again. >> Yeah.
>> You know, not not that they have to, but >> it's it's odd that there there's so many committees being formed right now and here's this one. This is a bylaw that's established and now we have an opportunity to to utilize CPA funds to retain these housing units and um and
further the the the you know the goal of this CPA funds really for that housing portion at least because and Kathy Kathy put together a great little um slide here
>> about what it what it is and Kathy feel free to put this up on the website. Okay. It's a tool to create and preserve housing for the benefit of low and moderate moderate income households.
Um can help the town reach 10%, gather revenue from CPA, serve taxes, develop our contributions, grants, etc. Can fund down payments, closing costs, and repair for local families. Can be instrumental in preserving affordable units that may be expiring. That's a big one. That's
the one, you know, circle highlight that one. Um, and it's an alternative to 40B. >> Yeah. >> But like the last page says, they offer local communitydriven approach to affordable housing. So why wouldn't we want to do it on the town's terms rather
than just on the developer terms? This is a great littleformational handout, straight to the point, Kathy, if you want to put put that up. So, if somebody has a question about that, >> I have a question about the funds that CPA um maintains now. Is it a large
amount of money that they have? Because this is potentially a large amount of money that would be managed >> and entrusted. Yes. >> So, so not necessarily. So, we only have 1% search charge on our tax rate. So,
which is small. And then every year at town meeting we designate 10% to open space and recreation, 10% to historic preservation, and 10% to housing. So only that 10% >> is% in there. >> So every year it's been about 20 20
22,000 to $24,000 going in each year. So here it's probably around $75,000 in the housing bucket. I call it, you know, the housing bucket. Um, obviously that's just a small amount, but with the
with the state's push for housing, there's always leveraging funds available, >> um, grants, >> yeah, >> other programs they can be. So, we know that there's already money in the trust as well, >> right? So there's money in there from I
think it was the difference between the affordable um so when so when you have a an affordable house built under 40b and it doesn't sell at that affordable rate after a year they're able to sell at
market rate but that extra money is supposed to go back to the town. I believe that's where the money came from. I know Emily said she was going to research it further and I I don't know what became of that or if it happened or not. >> Um but so that that's another means of
generating revenue to that trust as well. >> Yeah. It almost sounded like there were opportunities within this kind of a setup to to create more funds funding. >> Right. >> So >> it could potentially growish.
>> Yep. We don't have a housing authority. Um, so obviously if you create a housing authority, that's another town department, town expense, another, you know, makes the town taxes go up. >> Um, to me it's a no-brainer. I don't I guess I don't understand the push back
on it. >> Yeah, maybe we could ask >> what their reservations were. >> Yeah. Or well, um, absolutely. I'd like to send a memo to them about, you know, >> planning board supports um applying for
this trust uh mass housing part partnership affordable housing trust fund incentive technical assistance program. So, um >> I'll make a motion to send the memo to the the select board to uh to utilize
the or to um >> to So, it's due by December 22nd. So, >> if we can get this over their next meeting is the 16th, I believe. >> Okay. Second. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? >> I.
>> Motion carries. If you could make that memo, Kathy, as well. >> One more. I'm sure you could probably send it together. [laughter] >> Um, I am out tomorrow and Monday morning, so I don't know if that would get on their agenda then.
>> Oh, >> 15th is Monday. >> Monday's what? The 15th or 16th, >> right? >> 11. >> I don't know. >> 12 13 >> when their cut off is for that. >> I wonder when their next meeting after the 16th is. Oh, yeah. Cuz it wouldn't
be before the 22nd then. Shoot. >> Well, >> next year. >> I mean, I can send it myself, but still, like you said, I don't even know if it's going to make them the agenda, even if it's sent tomorrow.
It's a shame. It's like free help. >> I know. I mean, they must have some concerns. It would be nice to know like >> Yeah. I mean, it doesn't hurt if we don't get it, but Right. >> We'll do it anyways. >> Oh, yeah. And there's more information
in the packet about it. This actually goes into how just setting up the trust itself. We already have it established. So, we're already >> past that whole part. It's just a matter of it needs to be appointed >> and then >> yeah, then the mission statement like what it's going to do and I from what
I've read I still would have to dive into it a little deeper, but it's you determine what it's going to do. you know maybe the main function of it is going to be to have those units you know maintain that the shi and that's all it'll do you know or maybe eventually it
will grow you know to say there's a development and in lie of having it affordable the developer contributes you know x amount of dollars to it that type of thing but it you know it's like a
collaborative effort of what the town wants to see >> it's the town taking control of it if it's a afford affordability for the residents, >> right? And I've I've also heard support from residents um for like affordable
housing for like our first responders. >> Yeah. And you know, if we were would be able to do that as a town to sort of incentivize and to keep and retain employees that way, you know, that so I feel as though um there would be
support for this the um the housing trust and especially to maintain those units. Yeah. >> Rather than see a hundred expire in 10 years and it takes a lot of collaboration to get to that point >> um to get it done.
So, we'll send um Do you want to just send the memo on Monday then? I guess so. I can let the town administrator know that we'll we're sending a memo, but it he'll it won't be until Monday if there's a chance of still getting it on the agenda. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Okay. Um, [snorts] next thing review New England Environmental Finance Center memorandum of [snorts] agreement. So this is the SNEP network grant for OSRD.
Kathy and I met with Serped on this November. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> We went over this with them. Um, and this I guess it just needs to be signed. They did have a >> comment. >> Yeah. Um if there was any additional
staff, we don't have any additional staff at this time. >> Nope. >> Uh if we do have a town planner anytime soon, we can add that as well, but for now >> Oh, and I was going to ask like should conservation be included also?
>> I mean, it can't hurt. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Have to have them, right? >> Yeah. Do you'll add Lori or >> Yeah. Yeah. Nancy. Um, >> so this be signed by Andrew.
>> Yeah. So, do we need to take a vote to ask him to sign it or what do we need to do? >> Uh, probably just approve the agreement. >> Okay. with that revision and have the town administrator sign. Okay.
>> Okay. I'll make a motion to approve approve the agreement with the one edit um for the New England Environmental Finance Center memorandum of agreement. >> Motion second >> and a second. All in favor? >> I I carries.
>> Committee liaison updates. Do we have anything? >> Uh [snorts] Lakeville >> Country Club kind of did theirs today. They're they're working through what they uh what we had uh uh met on uh before
Thanksgiving and uh yeah, you can see where they're where they're at now. >> Um >> All right. Anything? So, nothing else? >> So, there wasn't there wasn't they they met with with uh uh individual committee heads or not committee heads?
>> Department heads. >> Yeah, department heads. >> Okay. So, we have a timeline now. So, that's good. Yeah. >> Um I'm on CPC. We're going to meet with them. That's my update. I guess this housing portion is the only thing that really is an overlap. And CPC isn't
supposed to, you know, we don't apply for projects. So it's like >> meeting with the planning board is kind of just for guidance, etc. But um >> it's I think it's a common goal that this trust would um
>> Yeah. I mean, I they're, you know, they're trying to line up all their ducks and and I I mean, I I understand your point, but I, you know, understand where he's sitting there and and thinking, you know, okay, it it's nice to have the the town
support, but town meetings are are so often times obstructionist and not and and and you'll get the you you'll get the gang that's against it show up and the gang that's for it doesn't show up. Uh, you know, so I I I know that that's
what he's >> Mhm. >> what he's thinking sitting there uh wanting a a 50% vote to >> Well, that's why if it's if it's a good project, I don't think it's going to I don't see it hitting a lot of opposition, but they and I think it
encourages them to um go for the information sessions and get that input that, you know, we've been promised. So, I don't I don't see it as an issue personally, but we'll see. >> Yeah. I I think, you know, he just wants to make sure that it's
that that it does get through and and you know, 2/3 uh you know, one one vote short of 2/3 that he wishes he could have could have had 50%. you know. >> Um
>> I mean it's really only what 60 67 votes >> out of 100 out of 100. Right. [snorts] >> Yeah. It's it's it's a tall it's usually a tall order. I mean think of how many zoning changes we've thrown in there
that haven't passed. And there have been there have been a few, >> you know, and but I but I think >> from from what I've read of the town, they're they're mostly for it. At least the
the people that pay attention. >> Well, the people that came out tonight, I mean, I would I expected them to be the opposition because typically that's what shows up and we are not hearing that. So, I'm not I'm not concerned at this. Well, that's why that's what I was saying. The people that that are paying
attention >> uh tend to be for it cuz they know what they they they already know what the alternatives might be. >> Well, yeah. >> Right. >> I think Noel put it perfectly with that. I like this better than I like the other things. Um that that what could be
there. >> Something's going to happen. >> Yeah. >> I [snorts] think the numbers that the I think the the housing is the number of units is the number of units. They're not going down. They're not going to go one number down. We're lucky we got them to drop the full story. >> I know. Yeah.
>> Cuz [snorts] that was that was one thing was, well, if we can't do it, then we're like, well, you're not going to get the zoning approved if you if you're >> making leaps and bounds above what it is, right? Like you're going you're not even asking for us to change it. You're asking us to >> ignore ignore bylaws and then then that then that just doesn't look [snorts]
>> right. >> That wouldn't have flied. You know what I mean? Wouldn't have flown with the uh with us or the town. So again, I I I can't stand by that one. No, I I like what they did. But >> I said I see where he's trying to again I don't I don't know if we could we
could talk about this anyways, right? Like >> Yeah. >> You gave an update. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I you know >> talk later. Y >> if we have questions though, David, in your role, is it your role to bring questions forward to them when you meet
with them? >> Yes, that's what I would >> because I had questions but they weren't relevant to what we were talking about. So that's like I did say at the end like if you had other questions but >> no no I asked a couple but really I had other questions that I think would be
better that they have time to actually prepare and answer. >> Yeah. You want to share them? >> I I have quite a few. >> Oh really? Yeah. So >> okay I mean I can send them to
everybody. They can you can look at them. Yeah, [snorts] I I would certainly be interested. >> Okay, that's what I thought the liaison's role was. That's why I didn't. >> So, I mean, so typically what I would like is, you know, the the planning board to agree on the feedback that we
sent through him, you know what I mean? Rather than if you feel free like that's if you want to go down the list right now, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, in these meetings, I I haven't Yeah. I don't I don't say too much. If if it's something that we can say, "Oh, well that's been answered or
we can check it out." But if it's something that Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. we can just and then you can send it over to David. He can take it with him. And >> so we should do that in the meeting, not necessarily via email. >> Correct. So email, we can't do feedback. Like you can say FYI,
>> but in order to have feedback, open meeting, we have to do it publicly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So I should ask them or Yeah, go for it. Okay. So, I was glad that he showed more details about Clear Pond Park because I think residents would want to know what
he means by enhancements and other improvements like what is what is their vision for what they're going to do with Clear Pond Park outside of >> um pickle ball courts. >> Right. So that's what he said he'd work with parks and I assume it's going to be
written into that um master [clears throat] not the mastermind the um the agreement there the >> right >> development agreement >> but that's one thing to note for the development agreement please you know include in the development agreement >> okay >> um >> further details if that
>> and then the municipal water source like where are they at in terms of working with Taton about >> Yep. So, >> cuz people are going to want to know. >> So, that's something that they're working through. So, that if you see the fact they did say we're going to try to bring in the water and I know so the
select board overseas water. So, that's something he's basically working with the town administrator on. >> Okay. >> Um and he'll have to have the approval from the select board in order to cook to it. >> So, that'll be >> that will be made clear. >> That will be clearer than >> Exact. Yep. It will be
>> um >> Yeah. I mean, I I had another question on the on the water cuz I thought they >> He thought he said last time that >> I thought they dragged I thought they dragged a water line >> over towards Clear Pond last year. >> Yep. But it was it was built in a way
that could not be added on to. It was like two Well, actually, it I'm trying to remember if I remember this correctly. I think it was only supposed to be 4 in, but it ended up being 6 in. And the concern was they didn't want it to be added on to, but
then the 6 in allowed for the flow, but I'm not 100% sure. But I know that yes, there was an extension, but it showed he knows he has to hook in to Route 79, >> that half mile. >> Yeah, >> he he does have it on the map. But I just think making that clearer to people
and like where they're at in terms of the the agreement to make that happen. >> Yeah. But but in general, the way he's always been uh mentioning it is that the town would bring that to him. >> That the town would >> No, like Andrew had said at that
meeting, I believe he said they're fully responsible. You they'd have to pay to bring that down. >> I you know, I would think so, but every time it's been mentioned, it's been >> mentioned as if the town's doing it. And maybe it's just >> how he's using. That might be one of
the, you know, how you said it was meeting with department heads. That may be a department head meeting with Andrew. >> Yeah. >> Potentially. >> And then HOA fees. >> Yep. >> Curious about what people will be. >> So HOA fees. So planning board as so one
of the things with zoning we have to know is it going to be special permit or is it by right either way if we do site plan review what's one of the items we always ask for? Amy to review the HOA. So that will be something that
but I don't think we can determine fees though. But we can have town council review the HOA. >> Okay. >> To ensure that it stays it's senior and all those things that are you know it's supposed to be. >> Okay. And he talked a little bit about a timeline for del deliverables cuz I
noted a lot of things in this sheet that we looked at that he's kind of got benchmarks for but we really don't have an idea of when they'll be done. But he did mention the Seymour review tonight for the comprehensive analysis so that we would know
>> um and revenue to the town. >> Right. Yeah. He's promised that. So we'll hopefully see that. >> Yeah. That that's that's being worked on. He's got an outside outside consultant from New Hampshire >> that's that's doing that and and you
know there there's [snorts] a lot to that >> and so there's two different things there. So it's like you said the financial impact but then he promised the revenue. So that's something how much is it projected at what where
is that going? >> Okay. >> But that that hopefully would be part of that agreement with the town too. But so bullet point some of these things as you know >> okay >> what you know that's >> make sure that so that that David has a kind of a list to make sure okay
>> what are you doing with this what are you doing with that and he can hopefully bring back these answers >> at least so that they have the questions and if they haven't already answered them they'll have answers for them >> y >> um because town meetings coming up in February right
>> no u June but the warrant closes in March >> it opens doesn't closes quick. So, >> okay. >> So, they'll have to have So, we'll have to hold the public hearing for the zoning. Um, so we have to have that language in
March at some point. So, >> Okay. >> Yeah. Was that it or you have more? >> It's all right. I'll I'll bullet list the rest. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> That way. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And he can you can just bring them. I think I'm on the right track. I'm not asking outlandish questions or
>> No, but and some of them should be in in um what he hopefully what we'll see from him >> and if they're not meeting till January, maybe we'll see it. Maybe like you you you put your list together and if you see it in there with what we get from him this month, maybe you can check them
off and if there's still questions remaining, >> okay? >> You know, put those together. >> Okay? definitely want to make sure >> you know if you have a a question feedback bring it because we want to make sure that this [laughter] it's done now rather than later. >> I I think one of the important things
would be the the report that he was talking about getting next week and uh you know that he would turn it around and get it to us >> right >> uh right away. Uh I mean I think that's the the fiscal impact report that he was
talking about and uh you know that that's that's something for us to go through and and have some discussions about and certainly there will be a lot of questions. Well, I see it I honestly I see it as like
I don't want to say something that we need to peer review, but obviously what they're going to come in with. >> Yeah, >> like anything it would be like, okay, well, we'd validate it, I think. So, maybe we I don't know if the town council is going who would validate it,
but um cuz obviously the I just want to make sure that it's not missing anything. You know, you know how we do with peer review, like obviously we have an engineer's review, but then we have another engineer take a look at it, make sure nothing's missing. So, I just like to have that done with it >> just to make sure like, yes, this is
what they're saying. Is it >> does it seem to match? Yes. >> Will this will the um comprehensive analysis include how it will impact our um SHI? >> So, >> yeah, >> I did get that answer. It does not count
towards our H shi count. >> Makes sense. >> And it does count towards our overall units. >> Totally. Yeah. >> It so it will push us farther from safe harbor >> which is something we need to it's a moving target. So
>> right. So one more reason if we can try to maintain what we have and build you know housing on the town. I don't know. I don't know if that's He said he doesn't do affordable units, but
I don't know if there's anything that I think that's a question to be asked like is there anything that they can do within it that um would maintain, you know, like not let us lose out on
40 >> 40 units. >> Two units. >> He would have to have he'd have to like offset that. That's that's a lot. I don't know if he'd do the 10% on his end. >> Yeah, but definitely a question to ask because it's going to come up at town meeting if you know. >> Yeah,
>> that's definitely a question people are going to ask. >> But yes, thank you, Donna, if you want to. Um, so yeah, put that in if you can put that in a document. >> Um, and like I said, probably wait and see what they come back with if we get
anything by the new year. And then we meet on January 8th. And if you want to include that, we can go over in our packet. >> Okay. >> And then David can bring it. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you.
Our next meeting is January 8th, 2026 at the Lakeville Police Station. It's a joint meeting with CPC for the beginning. We will um Anything else? All right. We won't be meeting again till next year. Yeah. [laughter]
>> Someone like >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. All in favor? >> I >> I motion carries. >> Happy holidays.