##VIDEO ID:cm3dmGEBf70## [Music] good evening and welcome to the December 26 2024 meeting of the Lakeville planning board uh we have a quorum here tonight with myself Mr Lodge and Mr cabal um we have Lake cam recording is anyone else recording and at this time I'm going to have Board of Health open their meeting and then we'll go around and introduce everyone thank you um it's December 26 7 P.M 2024 calling L for Board of Health meeting to order all right so if we could just start over here with Mr darling go around if you could introduce yourself and who or what you're representing J uh Nate darling Building Commissioner is owning enforcement officer with Don full building department uh Chris Sprat uh Board of Health Derek Maxum Board of Health uh David zonis chairman of the open space committee Michelle McAn planning board uh David Lodge uh planning board John John Cal planning board cor first uh Deputy Tipo tribal historic preservation officer for the naraga Indian tribe Nancy hes chairman of the Conservation Commission Andrew swn administrator great thank you everyone for coming out hope everyone had a nice holiday and um we're just here for one purpose tonight and it's to discuss the open space open space residential development or osrd as we'll refer to it uh this evening um some background so the developer isn't threatening a 40b but they are already in the process of the comprehensive permit and they have decided to put it on hold until after spring 2025 town meeting and if osrd passes at that point they would then move forward to use osrd instead of Pres proceeding with the 40b um this it's not spot zoning this is a large area over 300 acres um Town Council will be available for our meeting on January 9th if this does move forward we would then look at the language of the osrd and discuss a development agreement that would we would pursue with the developer so that we know all of the questions answers beforehand before town meeting so everything will be uh laid out beforehand um and we're right now we're not in Safe Harbor so the town has not been able to say no to a 40b development um I know there's certain projects in the works but because of the way they stand right now nothing substantial has been permitted that puts us into that safe harbor at this time so this is really just another option that the developer is willing to consider and that these people have been invited because they have a certain stakeholder you know open space conservation the tribes um you know they have certain interest Nate darling has been instrumental in bringing this to this point and I appreciate the you know the opportunity to even Explore this option uh and whether or not it's going to work to the benefit of the town's people um so this would need to go to town meeting and would need a two-thirds majority vote for a zoning change so it would have to go back to the people of the town to vote and determine whether or not you want to move forward um so if anyone has seen the agenda there were certain items that were outlined by the um developers attorney and I will read them off for you I don't know if you can see them up here so for the 40b plan it was 200 units on 185 acres two the the open space plan is for 204 units and it's actually 214 units on 308 Acres the plan has 136 single family lots and 68 duplex over 55 um for over 55 units the 40b plan had only two points of access on Freetown Street the open space plan has three access points adding one on County Street all of the single family lots have a minimum of 15,000 ft of area for reference the average size of the single family dwelling dwellings at learon is about 8,000 square ft the single family lots are proposed to be served by a wastewater treatment plant and the duplexes will have their own septic systems the wastewater treatment plant has been moved further away from the residences on Margo drive and although not shown on the concept plan there will be two or three dog parks proposed so after I spoke with um Mr um Mather um I did note a few other items they are willing to enter into the de development agreement with the town outlining the specifics of the project ahead of town meeting lot one shown on open space conceptual plan is comprised of approximately 10 acres and is owned by the applicant but the intent is not to include this in the osrd development in the future they would like to consider that area for resoning is commercial however they are willing to add to the development agreement to not pursue a 40b development in that area if the commercial zoning change were to fail um they would be agreeable to build this as a phase development agreeing to X number a predetermined number of units per year at a more absorbable rate rather than all 204 units at once and the plans show uh two well 204 Max but Bob will let me know which he did let me know that they're looking at 214 units um for this meeting I'd like us to um you know determine whether or not it's worth going forward with this osrd for this project um the developer would like to know what the biggest concerns about the proposed project is and what we don't like about the proposal um I think another thing is um what can we protect of significance with the osrd plan as opposed to what was presented with the 40b so that's basically where we are at this point and I'd like to give everyone a chance to sort of give their feedback input we'll start here at and go around the table and then we'll have um anyone who wants to speak come up and share your thoughts as well mate if you'd like to start I don't I don't have an awful lot to say about it at this point other than you know back when uh the zoning board of appeals started to hear the petition um was in May of this year um and I heard Mr itani mentioned that he was working with the previous Town Planner on an open space residential development um I did take it upon myself to reach out to attorney Mather and ask him if it's something that they would still be inclined to have a conversation about so I just want to make that clear um from my own perspective this is about giving options to the residents of the town of Lakeville and just to say okay look we have a plan before us uh it's a 40b um 200 units uh you all have heard the story very difficult for the town of Lakeville to deny that we're not in safe harbors um so we have a viable project uh in front of the town that would be very difficult um to push back on so this is an opportunity to take a look at it see if there's something that we get back out of it uh see if there's conditions that can be um put in place to um ease the project into the town if it was 20 to 2 five housing units uh per year versus um at a more substantial rate I think it would be better for the town um it would lessen impacts to the school as well as lesson um you know in impacts the traffic so I guess uh from this point on it's just you know seeing if we can Garner any interest if there's interest we can start working on developing uh open space residential development plan um work collaboratively with everybody and hopefully get a development agreement in place uh prior to asking the resid to vote on it so that's one of the biggest things uh to me on this um we make zoning changes in haste without necessarily um knowing what the project will be I think if there is uh interest in this I think we need to um develop a plan I think we have to create a development agreement with the select board um that kind of solidifies what the project proposal will look like um once we know that then we go to town meeting with a known and go from there um if at any point the develop is not interested in in doing that I I think that we just um abandon the bylaw and go back to the 40b thank you Nate Chris um so since this came about and it came around to the Board of Health um the biggest thing that we had talked about was just um I've worked on a bunch of these surveying and Engineering wise in my career over the years in other towns um and they're kind of cool where you can do almost the same kind of conventional development but you just shrink it down and you preserve a ton of land and um and you don't have these giant normous lots that people have to maintain um you know some people would prefer that I think um our biggest thing was I think that Bob had brought up in our meetings um when this first came up was making sure that they weren't getting credit for property they couldn't really develop under conventional plan so that's why we had asked for the perk of each lot um and we didn't want it to be four holes on every single lot right it was just we didn't want people getting credited for things that was just wasn't developable right so you wouldn't want to give them all x amount of lots for ledge and swamp and whatever else um especially when we started looking around the town when we were looking at this as a as a the whole of the town right and what pieces would be available to do it when especially when we're looking at the smaller uh acreage type stuff um so yeah that's one big thing we that I I know one concern I had was just I know that reading the emails they said that that might be a no starter a nonstarter for them oh right and I I think I lost that part out but they did say that if Park every would be and like I feel like this is more units than they would get in the conventional subdivision um absolutely you're you're you're right that's not the way I've always seen as an open space as sub is supposed to be it's supposed to be so at this point you may do a little bit more but not this seems like a lot more right so we're looking at basically we're comparing it to what they're proposing for the 40b and is this better than the 40b is it ideal for osrd absolutely not but um right I I feel like this way he could make more money because it's it's 100% market value right as opposed to 25% are affordable look at what that's going on at learon andan the prices in there for those small Lots I mean not going to be losing any money right and I think that's why the concession for the 55 plus units as opposed to all ages because you know typically the 55 plus do have a certain price point that's a little bit lower but they're so they're willing to you know give that concession or that seems to be one of the concessions is the 55 plus in lie of all ages which is what we would get with 40b right I'm saying this is not 40b at all I me it's 100% market rate right so it even if we we restrict a lot sizes the amount of money he's going to make is going to be higher I think so I mean I know I know I'm getting into stuff that's not Board of Health purview um but it's things that go into like our thinking and what the impacts on public health could be potentially with this stuff and it's kind of hard to see all of it when this is a kind of conceptual designs too I mean I know we'd already talked about allowing like the treatment system I mean treatment systems which has already happened not that we say we don't allow it but um um yeah I mean title 5 has got all kinds of stuff that they could still use um and it won't be until we see final plans we we get down to the knittting gritty of how stuff's going to fit in there um that's pretty much my big concern okay yes um probably just continuing WR but Chris just left off I mean obviously we would have to change right on Section a number two it it stands right out that um not allowing more housing than permitted on a conval subdivision plan so that would obviously have to be deleted because that's there there's no way there's 214 Lots you're going to get out there you might get 140 it's hard to say but um so we're not even close of that number just so anyone is looking at if you they actually had to perk um I do understand what we're proposing and why you're trying to do this um does it really fit under an open space residential one like a cluster zoning no if if that's what you're trying to do is allow them um and I I guess going on that same point why you would allow them more units than what's on the 40b I don't understand that besides he wants more units so so because well with the 40b they were only looking at 185 yeah so now this is including the whole 300 or so Acres but that's not even saying that other acreage is even usable if it's all ledge if there's indan artifacts if it's Wetland so they're just throwing that out there I'm not saying it is it isn't I'm just saying um on the the you know the extra land which is good to have for the town I I understand that idea um 55 and over I heard you say now is that going to be done I would say correctly this time and actually have it deed someone 55 years old on the deed not just say I'll tell if it goes for plan board and if I have anything to do with it then techically what I take is 55 and over you need to have someone on that deed that's 55 and over and Perpetual are you talking about learon or you talking about no just another project in town okay yeah that was 55 and over and and that was due to the the poor language of the mixed use yeah and it was written for a specific thing that never went through and I think that's what Native is referring to we don't want that to happen here correct absolutely um and also if it was perpet so if that was sold someone else buying that should have a 55 not just once for the life of those units should be 55 and over um I also heard the duplexes I think You' said they didn't want to tie into the sewer treatment plant that makes no sense to me why they having a sewer treatment plant and then trying to put septics on these duplexes where you don't meet nitrogen loading and there's 15,000 ft Lots there should not be septics they should all go into um they have to build a huge sewer treatment plant anyway MH um so I mean I think we could talk about that more at our board meetings no I think I think there was going to be two right I think there was going to be one for those I don't know that's the other thing it's tough too conceptual plans and trying to get an idea um I think if they have a SE treatment plant I mean all the you really nice to see the full survey of with all the buffers and what they actually have for Upland and actually have for wetlands and like what they really is developable um you know what I mean instead of just looking at concept stuff right right so now is is the main problem with the Board of Health the N the quantity of units that's again in in my opinion I don't think it's a Board of Health item I think it's more up to the planning board um CU if there's a sewer treatment plant it it's going to go to DP for approval anyway the board of Health's not going to see it um it's going to have to have a public water supply or private uh well which is D approved or a public water spot in Bedford wherever they get water from that will not come through the Board of Health um so Board of Health might not have a lot to do with this project as far as say um now I did see it's important to have you as part of this conversation because there was a Board of Health member who who was you know very outspoken about it and I know I've worked with you know I sat with Chris and Ed and went over you know drafts of this previously and I just want to flush out all of the so like like one of the questions is what is the problem like what do you see as the the major flaws in in concept plans right now so if you have some feedback that that we can put together and send back to the developer yeah then that's you know that's what I'd love to get from right it would be the duplexes all tying into I think a wastewater treatment plant and you would have to have um I think on page two actually it's on the section d section two um cuz we had originally tailored this to 20 acres anywhere in the town when we first developed this so is this going to be only for Rocky Woods develop nowhere else in town the way that I see this is we would be focusing on the rocky woods and and do this as a trial run for osrd and see how does it work here and if if it works well is it worth expanding is it worth looking at other areas I don't think it's something that cuz I I'll I'll be honest I've been against ardd I've been the reason that it's been held up because I have certain hesitations of putting this over the whole town um and you know so for me this is sort of a a slow that's kind of where our input was was we don't want this to be something that can be abused right and and people get more than what they you know what they would have in a conventional way right this is the bonus is like if they save money on the roadway the utilities all that stuff because it's a smaller they using less area less impact they have to do less excavation less work and they still can build the same amount of units but on less less of an area there's less money and stuff going work going into it that's where the bonus is right and I think the issue is you're comparing it to Conventional subdivision as opposed to comparing it to the 40b is which we're faced with right right now at this point it's either 40b or do we find a way to make osrd work where the town now has um possession of 150 acres right of of land that maybe he could hold on to and piece by piece as we've seen with learon oh squeezing another squeezing another so if the town actually takes possession of 150 acres is that a better option than allowing that land to remain in in that developer's hands um so I think we but I mean he's still got to prove that he could do this stuff though you know what I mean so that way he's not really kind of holding that 40b kind of as like well well if you don't let me do this the way I want to do it I can do this you know like I think a little bit more proof from them that they can get what they want like that you I mean the land isn't completely wasted time and they're using it as a bargaining chip to get more more for themselves right mean instead like oh I and that's that's that's fine if that's your feedback and right and I think on that point they don't have any attention of TR it they just saying it's this or nothing I think so long as the town it's presented that way to the town and everybody understands what they're voting on I I you know like you said I think the 40b is going to go anyway so mam chair can just clarifying the answer to that question is this just for Rocky Woods because this says shall be so the language so the language was just included for informational purposes only that's the current draft but the intent is to just focus on Rocky Woods to focus solely on the answer to the question is this is just for Rocky Woods this is just for Rocky woods so we're going to go to Springtown meeting and we're going to approve this just for rocki if we approve this it will be just bar rocki wood correct I just want to be clear and maybe can determine whether or not they want to move those so the 200 Acres language would go away cuz there are other Lots over 200 Acres correct yes that's my point yes so that would be changed specifically just for this and maybe would say um as opposed to acreage you know depending on like development agreement in place prior or something like that um I definitely would like some input from Town Council as to what you know yeah what best option would be to go all right and then uh just a couple more things I keep going on here quickly um we did have a couple of concerns with the septic system preliminary was shown it's kind of over there some houses um it was almost 49,000 gallons a day septic system that carried this um we've had some complaints already at learon um they have some houses very close to the septic system and they're getting smell and we're getting complaints at the Board of Health this house is within 50 ft of the treatment system um we would like to at least you know DP is going to approve it so we don't have much say but we could at least forward that to say you know can we get this somewhere away from definitely away from any neighbors houses so we don't get complaints from any neighbors and try to keep some of the the houses that are getting built further away um just so we don't have smell complaints we're such a large leeching area um and as far as the Board of Health that's that's the the only thing um like I said not parking every lot mhm I I don't that's that's a planning board I feel I don't know Chris might I think feel differently but you should get a lot on a convential but if you're just saying this is Rocky Woods this is a a one thing you're just doing specifically so if the town's people think it's a better deal and the board agree but from Board of Health I don't see the treatment system in water so when it comes to the and actually let's go around I want to go around and we'll come back and let everybody give a chance to um say whether or not you want to see this move forward so David so just um to get some clarification on the the two plans basically um the 42 plan was presented the town and had a lot of resistance there a lot of issues with um traffic water um of course is the wetlands native Indian lands and all that there's a lot of push back from the town so this open space plan I I guess this is one of the motivations for the developer to consider this reach turn the town gets to preserve some of the land and prevent that um um future phases of growth like happened at LaRon so is that basically what the town gets out of this is locking that land down prevent future growth on that's part of it um as well as the other items that were listed so it goes from all ages to 55 plus for a certain component uh they have another egress onto County Street as opposed to all egressing on to um Freetown Freetown Street um um there's the phase development so instead of bringing them all online you know just working through to build them uh they'd be in agreement in agreement to only bring so many online at once per year so as you know our schools have to absorb you know the the influx all of our services have to absorb the influx of the people you know regardless of age so um I think that was another so there there are some definite positive to the town with the osrd plan you know I can see that the motivations for the developer to want to go ahead with it what is he getting out of it and so I think Chris kind of pointed it out he's going to be able to so with 40b you have to sell those at um much lower rate than what you're going to sell 25% of them yeah only 25% so 50 of the units of the 200 so and that was just phase one you know he was always planning on doing this phase two and any body who's seen the zba meetings know that that was the case so this is kind of addressing the whole 300 or so acres and um at once and kind of getting to see what it would look like um as another option okay and you know considering all the problems with all the the ledge and it's it's pretty hilly and all that and it's it's you probably doesn't want to use a lot of that land anyway so maybe that's one of the motivations to give up that in exchange for some other things um and just um I know this is this is a priority Conservation Area for the town and and I a little late get involved in this but was there ever any any chance of that earlier or the developer consider a buy out on this to make it all conservation land so as far as I know there was never a consideration for that I mean I did my own personal sort of of sending out emails and I didn't get much so on once this once you they hear that there's a 40b there's not much I think willing to try to step in and interfere with that um that was the gist that I got from it I mean for me I mean as a planning board member I I recommended to the zoning board to deny it you know I I hate to to think of any of it being I torn up and broken and and destroyed and and it's sad but is this a better option seem well it does seem better Su for ation given the land and everything that's on it versus development it doesn't seem like a prime development site but I know it's in you know it's it's gone down the path that way um so I was just wondering if there was any chance of they would look at a some type of and we you know come the money through a state and ation of conservation agencies and things if if if he would consider a buyout of any kind for conservation I mean if there was money available I mean which I don't know but if he wouldn't consider it then it doesn't matter but if he would consider at some dollar value then we could look at I I don't I think cor she be able to speak more to this but um I think at some point there had been an offer to the previous owner but I don't think there yeah to Wills there and through a quna was supposed to be an agreement okay and that didn't go anywhere and so now the developer hasn't okay so this the osrd plan would be uh a compromise save some land and give him some things in exchange mhm the last question I had was that those 10 acres that on County that he's keeping for commercial used to any indication of what that would for that no there wasn't really much of an indication but I will say that in speaking with uh Mr Mather I did mention that I had spoken to some a resident who was talking to me about this and saying you know why don't they make it more like a Pine Hills in Plymouth I'd love to see some sort of a a general store a restaurant some sort of amenities and so maybe that's something because um previously they had looked at industrial and they did not get the support so they withdrew that um but there is so we have industrial and business and he just said commercial so I'm not sure which way they are leaning but there is business Zone in that area so that wouldn't be spot zoning if we sort of continue a business Zone in that area if it potentially Works to a Ben the benefit of bringing in more residents now you want to have some you know sort of amenities I guess for you know all these people that you're bringing in but other other than that there was no specific discussion as to what that's intended but maybe we could work that into the development agreement beforehand too I'm sure at least the local residents would be you know concerned or at least want to have an interest here and um last thing I I assume in this plan it looks like that all the uh the vernal pools and wetlands and the uh Native American lands were all taken into account in the layout of this is that because I I didn't get to see any of that so and I and nany will be able to speak to this about conservation having a peer review of just show you can I just answer that now while we're on it um see that map that's up there can we go back to the 40b map take a good look at that especially in the lower leftand corner down there yep right there all right now go back right as far as conservation goes there's much less impact from the 40b I never thought I would ever hear saying that but um which is odd the uh there's much more land disturbance even that Circle in the middle go back to the other plant again yeah they're closer to the Wetland there's more land disturbance because they're doing every single lot there's a lot more land disturbance so that is um and I must say I really haven't our commission hasn't discussed this as a whole so I'm not really speaking on behalf of them I'm just from being on there for a long time these are the things that we would bring up um that's two of this yeah there you go that's good yeah so there's a lot more land disturbance with this and conservation has only looked at the original 40b we have not done any delineation or anything on the other part actually it's probably the lines make it look like there's more disturbance but there's not lot lines not's going to clear every lot all the way out the houses would be up close to the no but a lot of the lots are in the W it's closer to the Wetland area but it's because there's no lot divisions over here those are all right and I actually did run this by our consultant and called him up and said it looks to me there's a lot more disturbance he said you're absolutely right there is closer area and the Wetland Crossings and even the circle in the middle and a question I've had all along and I've asked over and over and over again on the 40b plan it shows a community well on the osrd plan I don't unless I'm missing it because it's so small I don't see and my question has been from the beginning where and I don't know if they've determined that yet right that's why I say I've been asking since the first day where are you getting your water from have they answered you no well like I say on the 40b plan it shows a community well but it shows nothing on the other plan yeah if I can jump in here too I that the the other main difference between the two plans is that the open space plan has approximately three times as many single family homes So the 40b plan along with disturbing less uh less land area uh is also kind of condensing that into a smaller area which is really what you want to try to do with an open space zoning ordinance so it's my my initial impression was that the 40b plan met the open open space ordinance better than the than what they what they created for open space And as far as to open space the open space that they're suggesting is segmented from a strictly conservational standpoint you want to see a chunk of open space but in consideration of Kora and the Native Americans if we are saving some sites which I'd like to see an overlay I mean there's an actual map of where the Native American sites the important ones were that should be overlaid so are they really going to give that open space that's going to say and protect those areas because if not then from a strict conservation standpoint you want if you doing an OS s Rd to save chunks of land not segmented pieces so it's and and and if I can say one other thing too in terms of of usage the the the third access point running out to count County Street if you look at you know the houses that are kind of back in the development uh if if I'm driving someplace getting on that road that goes out to Connie street is a longer way than running out to Freetown Street and and using Freetown street so it almost becomes questionable whether that's even useful well and Madam chair in the say if they're going to do it in pieces who's to say that's not going to get done last not even be able to so they did say that they'll they'll do it they'll work from the most desirable section first so like Le impactful so I I I saw that as being so they won't start behind people's houses right away and they'll kind of work their way up that's how I but the county this piece over here that's not even included in the original plan like I say they haven't even been by conservation with that piece yet and that's where all the duplexes are that's where the duplexes are and I'm just saying how do you know that won't be last and that that's like the carrot and that is something that we can work with them on okay that that part because that's what people want that other access on the county street so you're going to have people come to town meeting and they're going to say that access is going on the county Street that's what we want and maybe they'll vote for it but that's not going to come to later so I just as long as everything's transparent about how it's going to work well even if that you want to do that later you can still make them do the road going that way the other thing too is that that piece of land that's left on County Street uh what you can probably expect going there would be some Highway oriented business because it's right there the exit on 140 and I've noticed just kind of driving around through Southeastern Massachusetts how many new gas stations with big stores have been getting built in many different places and that would most likely be what happens there but don't we our bylaw does say we can't have right yeah we can't have a gas station it's residential currently so yeah but it would be yeah they'd have to they'd have to go for zoning change I don't know I don't know what the mean you got a gas station in store exit South and exit north of it so I don't know where the benefit is I think we have have public water correct right yes I he but I think there is a r I believe you can't have a well on a gas station okay but it might be water going to this there was other stuff to stop the gas station at the corner down street the past and I just want to keep going did you have more to add David um not not not too much more I mean again in terms of of land planning and all I would want better access to that road that runs out to County and you know maybe the road layout has to change uh but my initial impression was was you know like like uh like you said it looks like the open space plan actually destroys or chews up more land than the than the 40b plan and mostly what they're doing is they're just they're adding adding some land to it to make it to to make the math work out uh and I've I've dealt with these things before from the developer side and uh yeah you end up counting little buffer areas I if you look at the kind of the extreme left where the single family houses are there there's a a gap between that and the property line and that would be counted there in that open space but it's not worth much of anything it might as well be part of each of those house lots and are they including the wetlands in the open space because the previous plan that we had looked at you took all of that out before you divide it up yeah how much and the other thing is the ordinance that we we have here in front of us actually doesn't fit that the first thing it says is 30,000 ft single family lots and us their half that and that's what Board of Health was saying with the 15,000 square ft yeah so you know we're a long ways from um do you want to I think with the 40b I I do have concerns on the only by B on the 40b was that that this section here where the duplex is that's that's coming later regardless if it goes 40b cuz he already has the access road in there the ESS access so most likely it's not showing here where they they have 200 units and it is a it is a a you know they're they're putting more units in the open space but that's just showing it now I mean those 68 units are probably going something's going in that area where if we if we do 40b that that he's going to do that like like Michelle said he's going to start taking chunks and taking chunks and so what we're what we're saying now is that you know he might have 214 in the open space but he's going to have 268 or more later on the 40b when they when they expand that that Road's probably going to end up happening but um well can can I just when that subject comes up I need to address the fact that how many years down the road is that he has a plan now for a 40b that he can you know get going on and how many years is that going to take and by the time you get to here is it a possibility that we can be working on our Safe Harbor and that maybe at that point we have we don't have to say yes I'm just taking the other side you're correct I I would guess that it would be three or four years that he could build out that 40b just one so I'm just saying things could change the market could fall I doubt it but yeah you know that's what happened at learon and that's why learon stretched out for 20 years because the market changed and he went back and did different things and you don't know 3 or 4 years from now how that's going to turn out and hey if we work on our plan to get our formable units maybe we could say no or learn how we can you know make a case to say no right do you have more to add joh no I think everyone's probably said most of it and then uh cor I definitely want to hear um and I don't need you to be specific but are there areas where you would like to see preserve that this is still showing developed and and is there a section that we should push back and ask are you willing to I mean the the area that that crosses 140 um you can see it right now when you're driving by it if you're going between County and Chase and you'll see it on the right hand side because you see This Magnificent Cliff you see caves from the highway there's a stream that goes underneath uh the highway and it comes out on the other side and it feeds into the Cedar Swamp um so you know 40b is is I hate 40b because you're bypassing so much local knowledge um and you're also bypassing stages and and over sight um that protect longterm this is only protecting an Investor's pocket um it's not you know it's nothing that's going to keep Grandma in town that she's lived in for eight Generations it's definitely not going to be anything that's going to afford her grandchildren to live here this is for commuters um this is for Out of Towners that are going to be able to buy a slice of of uh Lakeville and they can feel warm and fuzzy all they want for destroying a native site but you know the ecosystem that is on this half or or actually both sides um of 140 is probably the the biggest gift that you have um and so it's really hard it was hard in 40b to not be cringing um when the the peer review was presenting um what was there compared to what the developers Wetland expert had claimed to be um it's an intact ecosystem you can't replicate it and I mean I've got so many drains here it's kind of sad um where you know they're going to replicate the wetlands because we're going to destroy it by filling in this one lot so that we can sell a very large house on a small postage stamp um the idea of not doing perk test is just saying that you're not going to be good stewards um this is going to impact the water quality at Long Pond you know it's going to impact a lot of well heads um throughout the area I mean everybody that's a buding on Freetown Street um gets their water from this area so does the um the school campus area um so they're all going to be impacted whether we do 40b or this real big buildout to to make them you know have a tax right off on the the other 115 Acres or something um there's so many out crops throughout this area that it's really difficult to go there's going to be no impact cuz you're we're going to lose caves like as soon as they come in on free town There's a couple of Boulders that um you could sleep in if you were a kid if you knew where they were they have walls in between them I mean we've been here for thousands of years and that's what you're about to destroy or allow this uh this developer to destroy because it means nothing to him if he comes on a a b a field of Boulders and there are several um between that that Valley um just to the west of it I believe um so it's it's really frustrating to go it's either or you know neither of them are really good for the the site none of them are good for the ecosystem um and they're really not good for our neighbors either to to continue so I really as I as I look at this this newer version it's even scarier because the lots have gotten smaller and they're now on both sides of these little C sack roads um you know I mean the worst part is that this is not your typical lot you know you're not just saying oh I got 300 acres let me erase it let me just put in what I want um this is filled with you know huge outs um so the highest point in Bristol County is is on the Freetown side um it has little um markers that have been hammered in there by I don't know who um but somebody from from the feds um I also do realize that um EPA would need to be involved um because of the the Wellhead protected um areas if they still exist in a month um as would HUD um for any type of subsidized housing units so those are both Federal arms that the tribes would um be looking towards for for guidance and that's under 40b only though that wouldn't be through osrd right um you know so but with the with the um osrd it's it's impacting the the wetlands to such an extent that I don't you know you can't you can't go back and go oh we should have done better you know yeah you only have one chance to to work this site and because it really doesn't lay out um these areas they're laying them out between wetlands and and some of these Maps but they're not showing you really the outc crops um that are are throughout the property um they haven't done a topographical map that really um is beneficial for that and you know we we talked to them um when they first wanted to to do the commercial um industrial use from County Street um you know they backed off of that but now you know now they're going to do it but with that they're also going to be doing all these culde acts with the the duplexes um so you know this area that's closest to Freetown which really does have a lot of our our sensitive areas within it um you know that's that's being avoided for the most part um in the first two plans um you mean in the 40b plan yeah both of them I mean they they're both kind of kind of sort of um and but I I really don't like the idea of us cutting into lot size especially with their requirement of a perk test would kill the project you know um then maybe that's what they need to do is see how many lots are actually perable out there um because I think you're going to drop it to maybe 110 120 if that he's not the first person to try and build out here yeah people I mean if it was really extensive I think they'd already be a subdivision out there oh yeah I agree and just one other thing I'd like to bring up you talking about the Rock and everything um mean I can't be 100% sure but with the amount of ledge and rock out there I would have to assume they're going to be blasting or hammering just so anyone's aware I mean you're going to hear the sirens go off and I don't see how this project could possibly be done without blasting or hammering and how is that going to affect the A and our properties up and our property up by the school how is that going affect it um for you're talking about the water that's a different issue I'm just talking about blasting the rock to get the that happen that would affect the water and our wells our wells our foundations it could I can't speak to that if it will or won't if there's any proven fact to it when they built the houses on Freetown Street they blasted that ledge did you guys did you guys notice a difference in your water or weren any houses wer any the brand new houses near the dairy they blasted for those houses I live right near around the corner on Sundays and Saturdays when no one was around they blasted for those foundations I heard it we didn't I'm at the CHP of the street we didn't blast new on blasting going on down the street for me will indeed affect my Foundation but the brand new ones that are ring of the dairy that brand new Colonial all right but let's just let's just focus on focus on here for I know I know there's a lot of concerns but we're just trying to compare is this a better option than 40b or is it not and do we want to move forward or not I know nany did you want I have something one more thing I know I kind of been on everybody else's thing but um in the osrd itself I mean it's going to need a lot of work right um but going to work on it unless we want to move forward right so but the playgrounds and stuff there was some talk about having playgrounds and stuff and being available on open space I really think that seeing as it segmented as it is that um I wouldn't be in favor I'd be in favor of if you want to save this open space then you leave it as open space for the Wildlife the habitat and all of that and not to have a playground or any other thing for whatever they're going to have their dog parks which I don't know where they're going to be they're not need the wetlands is all I have to say so You' be more in favor of just passive walking trails rather than any sort of other yeah and like I said I'm talking a lot for me personally because I we have I'm going to put this on an agenda for my board to discuss before the next meeting so I can really be speaking from my own board not just myself um but like I say did talk to one of my members and he had voice concern about the segmented pieces but then we discussed you know if that's was the purpose of them whatever but large what we want conservation wise our large pieces of conservation land saved M with a habitat value Etc Andrew do you have anything that you'd like to add similar to Nancy I'd like to have my my board kind of weigh in when is the developer looking to get like a green light so either way we said that we'll continue it to our January 9th meeting to discuss language with Town Council if necessary um it would be we would have to have the bylaw language as well as the development agreement in place prior to Springtown meeting I know the warrant usually opens and closes sometime in March so I think we would be looking prior to March okay to so we're talking a couple months I think to sort of iron out the language a development agreement and then and whether or not we're bringing it to town meaning because then we'd have to also hold the public hearings and all of that right yeah I'd like to discuss it at probably the next couple meetings we have next meet on January 6th my only other like comment um just a lot of questions have come up that I'd like to I guess just bring back to the board and then we're just getting kind of hammered with 40 BS mhm absolutely um a lot in town obviously Lille Hospital coming up um but there's a few properties kind of near here that might get potentially 40 be in the future so um any way to limit oh a question for you has so I know prior to you coming on board um we had not uh filed the Shi units with the state do you know if that's been done I would have to defer maybe the Nate I don't think I've seen it done okay that's probably one of the first things I don't believe it's been done no okay so so that still is like the first major step to all of this 40b is making sure and I know now we have a town planner coming on so that's great to help uh handle some of that um but to just these these people have filed the 40p obviously when's that um timeline up so they have agreed to put it on hold until after Springtown meeting so they're giving so instead of counting the days they're they put it on hold while work out this obviously if we're not even going to bring something to town meeting if everyone says no let's let them go the 40b route that you know then they'll just move forward with the zoning board of appeals with the 40b process so so at this point if any residents would like to come up and and we're we're literally looking at do you support an osrd in this location as opposed to 40b or would you rather them proceed with a 40b like that's literally the the only answer that I'm looking for from you would you support osrd in this location because we know that they're already moving forward with 40b as cor said they still have certain Hoops to jump through um with different entities uh like Board of Health has mentioned they have to go through Mass DP for certain items as well so do you see does anyone in the audience have um an opinion they'd like to share if you do please come up state your name for the record my name is right up to the mic my name is Mary Jean Liberator I live on 32 Freetown Street I think as a resident one of the huge questions is I understand that you're proposing an either or but it's it feels more complicated in that to those of us that live there because there's this what happens if the open space is refuted and I recognize and appreciate some of the comments that the conservation board is speaking about in terms of the preservation of open space and I wish um as I'm sure all of us do now that Lakeville is targeted by these multi-million dollar corporations that are chewing up our town and putting these uh pressures on individuals and our systems I wish we had something in place before that could address some of the issues of what do we want and I thought we had a master plan and I thought we had all these things that were in place that talked about what kind of community we wanted to have and could have what I fear is that with this either or I appreciate the efforts of everyone as you're trying to address some of the concerns that the residents have posed well what happens if oh well then it just goes back to 40b are we back to the place now where they've delayed and permitted all of these extensions are we now at a spot if the open space is denied where we have no time to negotiate anymore no so that that was between zba zoning board of appeals and the developer and they agreed to put the time frame on hold so no we're not it's not shortening the time that they have it's on hold like it's they hit the pause button and just so just so you know and and you're right this was a priority protection planning board when we went through priority protection and development areas yes this is that's why open um open space committee chair is here this was a priority protection parcel unfortunately we don't own it you know the town doesn't own the and and this developer bought it and I know the tribes had tried to to work out something that they but it it didn't happen and we have CPA now but we just don't have a lot of money in CPA um it and you know land goes for a lot of money so it's and there's a lot of it and I'm seeing all of the sites the hospital and 600 acres on Howland Road and how many more Acres over here and over there and how how is the average Joe I mean this is the first time that I'm aware of that open space Board of Health conservation select people have actually and planning board have actually sat and talked together where was everybody and what happens afterwards what happens when the decision is thrown out to the town and yes the residents say you know what it's on the highway anyway let it go to 40b is anyone else going to be involved besides the zoning board and this attorney and this big developer or are we just all on our own then so so conserv so everybody does sort of deal with their own portion because there's not really an overlap and I will say planning board and Board of Health and Nate darling and we had the previous uh Town Administrator I believe there we were conservation as well we were all in the same talking about oard before so when when the situation arises we do atast four time and yeah like me Nancy Chris and Ed met separately like so there are certain situations where you know when when it's warranted and I think we met with the slep board when it was talking about the the commuter rail zoning and so when there is an overlap something that's large that affects the town that's why you know I wanted every I wanted to use a planning board meeting to get everybody in the room and talking about this because talking and flushing it up out maybe one person is thinking of something that somebody else isn't thinking and and it helps but you know we're we're only we're only as much as the committee community members who join in you know so if you want to have something done about it and you want to save it get involved you know like we're volunteers you know no and I don't mean I I don't want this to come off as a challenge or disrespect in any way to the time you're here the day after Christmas Christmas I mean I get it I know it's all volunteer I had volunteer times in my day too I recognize that it's just that there hasn't been a lot of communication so not all of us are aware that all of this has happening and it's helpful to know that it has been um I personally cannot say whether I prefer the 40b or the open space I concur with the concept of wanting just open space and and preserving sites and Wildlife and all of that I it scares me to think that in order to get that through this osrd that we give up the ownership of the 150 acres that maybe we get to hold on to am I understanding that correctly that with all part of Bas he's saying that he's not going to develop the three 8 or 14 so maybe maybe he won't maybe even with a phase develop maybe if he were to S stick with the 40b and do a phase development maybe there's certain areas where he still can't develop because there's so much Wetlands or or what what or or you know financial reasons or whatever it is but but that's the unknown so this is this is kind of addressing you know rather than having these unknowns and maybe phases coming like we've seen with learon MH it's just another option for you all to consider and and do you prefer this option or do you do you prefer to let him go the 40b and there's there's no option that I mean we can talk about the percentage of acreage and we can talk about the the design and all of that when does a town begin to talk about the type of developer when you have a developer who's already got a project in place that has created so many complaints because of the way that it was designed when does the town have the option to discuss that you know I mean maybe we don't let this guy build in town any but so that's the problem is if he's going through 40b he's he's allowed through the state and that's that's the problem with 4be at steamrolls local bylaw how do we get into a safe harbor with I know will you come up and say your name no you can St up chriso B Lan um I guess it's all the smaller developments that are going in that they don't have to have 40b so that doesn't include that doesn't so so 40b is a specific type it's a portion it's a percentage isn't it yep so so we have your your whole market rate units of throughout the town right and then you have a certain percentage which came in as a 40b development right and so of that 40b development whether it's 20 or 25% they have to be um affordable deed restricted so those units count towards your Safe Harbor so even in our housing production plan which planning board just worked on and and finished last this past spring um 36 units of subsidized housing inventory built in one year gives you two years of safe Safe Harbor 19 units in one year gives you one year in order to to reach Safe Harbor you'd have to have 10% of your overall housing inventory subsidized so we're only at 6% right now so all these small little projects that are going you talking subis Street off of Holland Road the the three or four houses that are going in those actually push us farther away from exactly so why doesn't the state say well you're building all these houses because they want affordable so that's the problem is we don't have affordable housing and that's that's why 40b is allowed to steamroll the local bylaws is because it provides that we could do or people can move with the state we have we have 150 more new houses being built in our town no that are not 40 days so that makes it harder to get to your Safe Harbor because now your inventory is going up exactly so even for a 40 40b development yes they're putting 25% but but still the they're pushing our housing inventory the other direction still now I thought also with Wetlands you couldn't you can't build on wetlands and there's a lot of wetland back there and so how does that happen do they fill it in so that's no so that's why conservation has a wetland Crossings on this plan yes they do they have a peer review but it it defaults to the state Wetlands protection act even if we had a local bylaw that that protected Wetlands even more stringently than the state 40b doesn't listen to that they say they're only going to go so so listen if you want to if you want to get rid of 40b you got to bring it to the state ballot been around for a long time it's bypasses all your local zoning so it leaves us all helpless except we do what we can do Madam chair through you and there might be some things we can do with the 40b they're doing Wetland Crossing they have to do application we don't know yet how much that's going to be because we can and we just did it we had somebody that did um filled in some Wetlands but there's also uh through D and the Wetland protection act they can't bypass they can only do so much fill so when we see a real plan of how much they're going to fill and how much they're going to do then we can put a deed restriction on to say um you can't segment and fill here and here and here and here so there may be some things we can do but we haven't seen a plan of how much that's going to be yet Madam we do what we can if I can just um so so part of the reason why we're here tonight is to make sure that we are putting the the decision back in the Resident hands because you hear over and over again the state makes these rules and what can we do to stop them we can stop them by creating our own regulations to allow similar type projects under control of the Town residents and that's that's what we're looking at here so this won't supersede if we had a wetland protection this wouldn't supersede that it won't supersede B of Health regulations um if we write that into the bylaw it's the resident's decision on this so we just got to make sure and this is kind of set up by Design is the more restrictive we get the more we push developers into a 40b and that's a state problem you know I mean it becomes our problem but the state created it so you got to speak to your legislators about that um but what we're trying to do here is craft a bylaw potentially um with the support of the resident that would be advantageous to do the same exact number of buildings or maybe slightly more and save the town 100 to 150 acres of land now we we also have to look back at the Lakeville Country Club big sticking point lot of controversy in town around 100 acres right and we voted to spend 13 million on that this project with the same exact number of units is with a 40b we could protect the same amount that we voted on spending 13 million for just to put it in perspective you know there are are some fragmentation of the open space here but you got to remember in aggregate these are very very large pieces and um prior to the developer creating a concept plan I'm been talking to the planning board chair uh my original intent was to perhaps go to the Aquin and go to the narraganset go to open space go to conservation go to our residents and say let's take the whole entire property in Cloudy areas of concern not have to prove them but at least identify areas of concern and let the developer back into that and say these are the areas we don't want you to build on any of it I've been in lill my whole life family's been here I'd be fir if they didn't build on any of it but back into the numbers that would make it advantagous and we want the developer to make money because the developer makes money now that's what is paying essentially for given the town the open space you see what I mean you don't just give things away but yep no go ahead well I I I just I just want to make sure that we don't look at what's presented in front of us and say it's this or nothing I think that um it would be really important to get the tribal input and say you know these are areas that are being built on um we don't want it built on maybe you can do something over here instead um I I think that the main reason and Michelle alluded to it a couple of times we want to know if the boards committees commissions and residents want us to pursue this this is a heavy lift uh for Town employees to draft the bylaw um there's a lot of expense with uh legal councel in figuring out the language of this to get at the town meeting in June um but if the town residents if the residents don't want to do it or or aren't inclined to have a conversation that may allow something like this we probably should just not go to town meeting with it um because the hours that will go into drafting a bylaw to go to town meeting and fail it's just a waste of time that really none of us have um I have a question it's the second time Cor mentioned it and also the ecological study um Brian F mentioned how important a topographical study would be can we require that of the developer as the community can we say that before we put in the leg work the time the money uh we would like to see a an overlay for for this project the 40b and the proposed osrd that includes a topographical study that indicates exactly where he's putting what where the water is coming from not this notion that maybe he's going to be able to connect with the um the New Bedford site over at the Waterworks or maybe he's going to be able to do that no you're planning a mult multiyear multi-million dollar deal put your facts on the table we deserve that we deserve that we can't be dealing with all of these what ifs oh I just was asked by um Jose from lakam if you could go to a m mic I guess it's not picking you up I'm sorry so so you're you're looking for an overlay of a topographical study so that's where like Nancy said uh when we get a a set of plans so this is a concept plan this is something that we have as we can bargain with them not bargain but like Nate said do we want to Circle and say you know we want to see this protected that's why cor is present at this table um and she knows that site you know probably better than anyone and um are there areas where we want to see protected that aren't getting protected is there and and we're not just going to you know we don't have to just go back and say yes we agree it's I have a list here of things that I'm going to you know respond and see what their response back is and and maybe they say oh well or maybe they're willing to work with us um I'd like to get the developer I I invited the developer here I'd like to get them at the table at some point they said they didn't want to have like a back and forth public um sort of bargaining s you know bright time but um I think it's important to have those public conversations I said that to the attorney because I don't want anyone think that anything is happening behind closed doors regarding zoning because I want it all public and so I did let him know that I can't speak for the other residents but personally my husband and I certainly appreciate this I mean this opportunity I can see that you're wrestling with it I understand that you recognize that we're wrestling with it too we knew from the first there was going to be blasting um I do dispute that blasting may or may not imp act Wells during the pandemic our nextdoor neighbor um had fracking done of her wealth her well works fine guess who didn't um that's fracking that's not blasting that's fracking so I know that's one example and I know that I'm not an expert but we can all of us who live on Freetown Street who don't have foundations under some portions of our home know why and I don't know why AA will decided to sell that property but maybe he couldn't do what he was planning on doing either and maybe we could all wish on a star and hope that this would happen with this developer but I like the idea of discussion and and having some sort of parameters that protect us in case the wh ifs just don't work so I appreciate the work that you're doing I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you I don't have any more answers than you do except the one that you and I both agree on which is I don't want any of it happening and that you can't promise us so I get it thank you does anyone else have anything they'd like to add I just had one quick thing come up I please we would also what she said just state your name for the record please um Cory said about overlay of of what's important for the history of the the Native Americans here I've been back there it's beautiful when I first saw that plane that they did with the 40b I looked at the the geological thing and I'm like this is from 2001 the pictures they showed all that stuff was from 2001 now we have stuff that's more current that's showing that what they did in 2001 may have been that way before but it's not that way now this we we have NE rattl spotted back back there they're endangered we had salamine and the spotted back there that are end spotted Salam there's on Freetown street they're all in the woods back there I hope you're reporting it to the state document a report I'm going by what you know what I'm hearing from from different boards okay to go back to to look at that development the new development I agree with the way they've compacted that but those veral pools they're talking about some of those pools being permanent streams now that were in permanent in 2001 I think the overlay has to be more current and I and I agree everything that needs to be protected should be on that over so they know it's got to be protected it's beautiful drawings back there and everything it's unbelievable back there and I've been there many many times I live on GRE down street so just hopefully we can put it all together and say hey if you're going to do this you have to protect this you have to protect that and don't kill the Eastern Rattler and the Bobcat that was back there there just a little while know let him you know and sorry Sor what was your name the my name is Ralph Liberator I live at 32 free town as well thank you anyone else okay so to finish it off do we want to go around and just say whether or not we want to see this move forward osr or or not Nate yeah you can so so I want to do what the residents want to do that's the only reason that I brought it up and reached out to Bob matter I had no idea um that our previous planner was um had reached out to the developer um when I heard him disclosed that at the first meeting I reached out to him and said is this an option for the town that's it and so uh I would defer to the residents if the residents want us to work on this and and see if we can make something work I'm I'm on board um if not that's that's okay too do we want to do a show of hands if you're supportive of it or not you say when you say work on it did that include not being so clustered they have all that so you know what I mean look she's right about the circle look at the circle at the between them and coming out on three toown street you live on three toown Street you know how bad it is to come out of your driveway and I can come out of my driveway do speed and have somebody on my rear end flicking his light because I'm doing 35 I know it's on the back carve too Madam chair can I just give a suggestion because there's a lot of information that was spoken about tonight I I think that this is something that you you've generally articulated what we're dealing with maybe we give it and and say okay you know reach out to I hate to put it on Andrew but either send comr to the select board or to the planning board and and then we'll kind of take a look at that and bring it up at a subsequent meeting just as uh you know either old business or another topic and say these this is generally the feedback we have um it would give the um um tribal representation opportunity to possibly cloud in some areas of concern it would give uh Nancy uh the opportunity to bring it back to conservation and see what their General feel is um in instead of uh Russian it I mean time's going to be of essence but I think that this is a decision that we really warrant maybe a week or two uh to Garner a little feedback from from the folks more representation I mean I only found out about this because you were kind of enough to post it on the rocky website but I would bet you that there's a whole bunch of people that don't know about this meeting it was and I'm not inferring that that was intentional it's the holidays and there's not many of us here I hate to make a decision for other people so so planning board we can put it on our January 9th meeting we can you know you're welcome to share input in between then and now conservation usually meets the Tuesday before us now we're not meeting till the 14th oh you're not okay I got another question too Michelle you like in back and forth with developer like was this their like last this is it this is what we're willing to do or was they still open to hearing feedback and may be making some adjustments so it based off of what was said tonight maybe well so I mean all we can do is try Okay um because like I said he came back and said the two it wasn't first it was 204 but then it might go up to 214 and sure enough of course it went up to 214 um but that's because somebody's sitting not realizing the terrain of this property you know if they realize that if you want to have 160 really nice Lots there then design it that way when the no perk thing is kind of cuz they probably know they don't want to do that they say it's a nonstarter because they kind of know what's not going to and we do have this conventional subdivision plan which only shows 61 61 lots and that's how o osrd well I mean that's not the whole the whole 300 acres though so they obviously could squeeze some more in and I know that OS was supposed to be probably not much no more than I mean cuz along the highway it's what 80% ledge ledge I mean it's tough though too because you think of it well cor talk too like going into freet toown and that spot too I mean maybe we want to see not as many units I mean they do have a financial benefit to go with osrd why not give us a little bit more land especially if if you can designate those areas where you want to see um saved if that's something you can forward to us and and then we can you know discuss it at our next meeting and potentially send that send some comments back to the developer at that point um well you also don't want to have a tiny lot that has a Vernal pool taking up half of it or the amount of lots that now are are being included with Wetlands um you know we don't want to destroy an ecosystem that's working like there aren't many left there really aren't and this is a a vast one and we're called Lakeville for a reason and the watersheds that we forget about 40% TOS under water right so so I mean I'm hearing you know fewer housing fewer houses and um more more of a setback from Wetlands yeah Madam chair yes um we have a meeting on the 14th CU we have continuances to the 14th of January but I will try to see if our board maybe just to get an opinion on this that I can bring forth will meet on a will be the seventh yeah maybe just for this one thing I can't like I said we continued things till the 14th already I can't go backwards but I will see if I can do that so that I get more of a consensus from my board okay and yeah present them with everything that you've gotten from us I had sent out an email but it's Christmas to say and you know so we can I still would like everybody's feedback to know you know do you do did open space say they were in support did they not give you a consensus um well at our our last meeting we were um of approval of the osrd plan draft but not of the rocky Woods we didn't have discussion with the rocky Woods plan that was just to um say we were going to I was going to represent the committee attending the meetings but we didn't have a detailed discussion of the plan and when do you got do you guys meet on the 9th as well we meet on the 2D on the second yeah oh okay holiday group so you could you could basically get some comments composed to us as well I could circulate the the notes from the emails uh yeah and then Board of Health I I feel like I've gotten your feedback be on the agenda it's very complicated issue because there's so many issues with both plans and the major issues don't go away going from one plan to the other so it's it's a no- win situation it seems in Board of Health you have concerns about the lot size and the the quantity of yeah the lot size and the septic septic um just strictly from a Board of Health I mean yeah 15,000 ft Lots in Lakeville but there's going to be a treatment system in water so from a border of house strictly there's going to be nitrogen loading and everything but I think the 300 acres the whole thing meets nitrogen loading for this uh a treatment system is the best system they can have it's run by a um it has the lowest nitrates in a treatment system from a porta Health Point um and you did note the smell and move it away smell but again I don't know how much leeway we're going to have to any of that cuz um we can only send a recommendation to DP it's not we won't have any input in it um well we can send that back to the developer as well and just you know when speaking about this you know I I hear the residents also worrying about the wells with that much of a draw of a public well there I mean I don't know how much we can push towards if it's feasible well and requirement to tie into Bedford water as part of this that's what I have as as a question is where is the water coming from and maybe if they bring in enough money from these this osrd maybe that makes it feasible for them to bring the new bed for water I don't know and I guess you know the other point maybe if you reach out to developer like Chris was asking uh you know it if this is set in stone and they're not willing to do anything and they want these many units I mean I don't know if there's really a point to keep going forward I feel like they gave this and like well this is our Dream right but they might but if we don't push back they like awesome if we push back he is number two know you never know right can I this question yes um because come up to the mic so they can catch you um when I first moved down here the property um for building a house was 1 and 3/4 Acres what it happened to that that's that's for a buildable lot 70,000 that hasn't changed 70,000 fet so but these houses these individual houses and this development so you're talking town zoning versus 40b so that's and then talking osrd which allow like ultimately so there are exceptions correct so the reason we were looking at osrd is we were we were going to allow them to build the same amount of houses on a smaller amount of land and Shrink those lot sizes to half the size so that way we would be able to maintain certain amount of open space so it doesn't it really doesn't affect 40b at all the the Lots sizes so not like not like an individual house that's how they steam roll our bylaws they just say it doesn't matter what your bylaws say you're allowed to do this because you're bringing in affordable housing because we don't you know Massachusetts doesn't have affordable housing so because they're providing a small portion they're able to okay I I didn't know because I see houses being built all over and you sort of go that look like one and 3/4 Acres but yeah so the only ones that are able to build on a smaller lot is 40b like Le correct that's I thank you all right so I guess we can continue this till January 9th we'll look for a memo from conservation a memo from open space and um if you'd like to send an official Memo from Board of Health yes um we don't have a meeting till the 14th but I could see if they' like to meet prior to just so we can send something prior to that if we're in agreement um yeah at the very least we'll just send our comments to Ed and Ed can forward stuff along the YouTube that' be great so if we can have a meeting before we will and then we'll deter coms I mean we have to determine at some point whether or not we want to draft this bylaw or not so hopefully sooner rather than later we can do that um so we won't make any determination this evening I will wait to send any comments back to the developer until I hear back from all of you the chairs or clerks for your boards and commit IES and um so if Kathy if you could add it to the January 9th and we will any any other business no if we want Tove make a motion to make a motion to adour second second motion and the second all in favor I us I close I make a motion to ajour second second yeah all in favor all