##VIDEO ID:YWt3xKRAjm8## [Music] [Music] I call to order the January 23rd 2025 Planning Commission meeting please join me in the flag pledge Miss goodroad will you please do a a roll call of members h i Tinsley I kza morovich here here Ike here here agenda item number three approval of minutes January 9th 2025 Planning Commission minutes any [Music] changes all right and those will B um an agenda item number four Miss Jensen any announcements uh yes thank you um I do not have any handouts for this evening uh as for announcements just wanted to let you know that the parks recreation and natural resources committee uh did not have a quorum last night so they did not have their meeting and were not able to review and uh provide you a vote on the Antler Ridge second edition preliminary plat um but just as for information uh because it was a it's a revised preliminary plat they did see the initial review of that in on July 5th of 2023 so it was not a new project for them um and then if these items aren't tabled they will move forward to the February 2nd city council meeting all right thank you all right and all three next agenda items are public hearings so anyone wishing to speak on any one of the agenda items please make sure you print your name and address on the appropriate agenda item in the back of the rooma item number five antlers Ridge second edition this is a public hearing to consider the application of tamarak land Lake Maran Commons LLC for the preliminary plat for 26 twin home lots to be known as antlers Ridge second edition and a conditional use permit for a Shoreland impact plan within the Shoreland overlay District of Lake Maran located east of Kendrick Avenue and west of Kenfield Trail and we have so sorry Mr Herman to give a brief overview of the project here members of the commission thank you very much uh for your time not only in review of the application but also in your time tonight and the consideration of our um our application my name is Nate Herman I um this am the civil engineer for the project I'm also um the developers representative here tonight so I can certainly um stand by to answer any questions I I know we were here I don't know it was maybe not quite a year ago or maybe it was about a year ago that we were here for the first round and um we did go through with phase one so phase one is constructed and um you know building permits are are able to to be uh to be pulled lar lar home building is is the the Builder for the development and um we do have a you know slight change that we're coming back through the public hearing process with with our second addition we um you know you know kind of kind of in in summary but the the developer was able to you know have have conversations with with the neighbor at the at the towing company and you know there there was some interest that you know potentially they could find a new parcel and we could add add this to to the development um they weren't able to find anything at the time but you know we wanted to look look at um not only our own our own plat but you know what what would happen with with that and uh so we really wanted to bring the best the best practice our best use for for the for both parcels and you know just to give one contiguous um development that would would work well together and um that's what we that's what we did and that's why our application is open today so I happy to answer any questions or let you begin your public hearing process thank you yeah questions at the moment we'll have staff present and then okay perfect good evening chair commission members I'm Heather Boton the senior planner with the city of Lakeville the request in front of you tonight is for property that is located north of Kenfield Trail and east of Kenrick Avenue um the property to the South is Tera Garden Center and to the north you're going to see the lot that was dedicated to the city for a wetland with the first phase of antlers Ridge and then north of that is ideal rental to the east of the site is Antlers Ridge first edition the property is zoned rst2 which is the single and two family residential district and it is guided medium and high density residential the preliminary plot tonight is for 26 twin home lots there's two common lots and two outl um then there's also the conditional use permit for the Shoreland impact plan may have noticed some information in your packet that talked about a drainage and utility easement vacation so that I want to just make sure that you're aware that that's going to be happening but the public hearing for that vacation is actually going to happen at the city council meeting on February 3rd so you do not have to take formal action on that tonight uh the plat of antlers Ridge second though does have all the required perimeter easement that's required by the city so we're just kind of vacating what was approved with the first edition rededicating on the plat for the second edition so what you see in front of you here is the grading plan and Landscaping plan um the site was mass graded with the preliminary plot approval of the first edition um access to the property right now will be from 203rd Street and Kenfield Trail in the future once the Merck Towing property is ready to sell and subdivide you can see in the upper left hand corner that there is a ghost plat there so the 23rd Street would continue over to Kenrick Avenue uh landscape Landscaping is continuation of what was approved with the first edition um any Landscaping that is um installed off site will require written permission from the property owners to install any kind of landscaping that's off this property so the conditional use permit is for the Shoreland impact plan so what is proposed um is consistent with the goals goals and policies of the city's comprehensive plan and it conforms with all of our performance standards of the city code and the way that boundary is defined is you can kind of see in the circle area here that this blue outline that is a buffer from 1,000 ft of the ordinary High Watermark from Lake NAD so anything within that area you can see the subject property is outlined in yellow here is within that Shoreland overlay District which then triggers the need for the Shoreland impact plan um any areas within the Shoreland overlay is um they are required to have a maximum 25% impervious surface for the development so the proposal is at like a little over 23% for the entire site so they are in compliance with that requirement so staff is recommending approval of the preliminary plat and conditional use permit that is in front of you with the nine conditions that's listed in the staff report and the findings of fact that's listed in your packet so any questions for staff we'll open the public hearing all right thank you um all right anyone wishing to speak on this agenda item can please come forward I'm chair yes seeing no one come forward I move to close the public hearing second a motion in a second to close the public hearing um all in favor please signify by saying I I all opposed all right the public hearing is now closed um fellow Commissioners any [Music] questions question mam chair yes um I did just have one question as I'm I'm looking at this um recognizing there's been discussion with the neighbor um about future potential to redevelop this um in in just the way this is all laying out um as I was looking at the setup with the proposed um town home units um and the Landscaping kind of in between what exists today is is there any firm understanding where Merck is at and potentially relocating timing anything like that um just kind of thinking through if there should be any potential screening kind of between the business and these town houses in the intern um yeah I my me personally I haven't had any convers ations with with Merrick um and Dale willenbring you know representing or owner of Tam tamarak you he's he's had the conversations I I can't speak exactly for the conversations he had recently but um last I heard you know you know they were interested and but I I don't know to be completely honest that's that's fair um I'm not in a spot where I feel like I want the Planning Commission have to require a change here um with the screening but I just asked to potentially consider it and work with staff on potentially maybe thinking about whether some screening is appropriate in that location as we move forward sure um I will state otherwise I I like the replat of this um kind of gets rid of that road connection to Kenrick that was kind of a cause of some consternation once when this originally came through with all the driveways and the road and everything all being in a pretty tight fit there I think this is a appropriate solution for the future um and this development has multiple access points to get in and out of it um regardless of whether that connection is there so those those all seem appropriate but again I just kind to ask maybe some consideration be given to some screening U between those town home units on that lot a lot B location as as this moves forward very good thank you yeah any other comments or questions mam chair yes I would be supportive of that too I like commissioner swensson wouldn't want to impose this as a additional condition but um would like to see that and uh hope that you work with City staff going forward okay all right if there's no other comments looks like we might be ready I have one other question could somebody comment on whether it be the engineer or staff on the water drainage where it goes uh it's kind of all downhill toward Maran touch base on that um so basically we got we got you know water run off comes from from the south properties Down Stone Brook and um there's a you know city pond that Outlets through the property uh the way the way the site's been designed and graded um you know we primarily focused in in one one large pond and every everything you know on our site except for a couple backyards routes through that pond and um so and we we mimic existing conditions and um certainly pass and meet all the storm water requirements for Quality Vol volume or abstraction and rate control okay thank you yeah are we ready for a motion Madam chair I'd make a motion to recommend approval of antlers Ridge second edition preliminary plat and conditional use permit subject to the nine stipulations listed in the January 16 2025 planning report and Adoption of the findings effect second all right I have a motion and a second will you please take a roll call vote zek I Tinsley i kza i morovich i Zimmer I a hi Swinson hi all right and Miss Jensen when will this go in front of City Council uh February 3rd all right well thank you Mr Herman and best luck on the second edition of your project all right agenda item number six this is airlake Dea this is a public hearing to consider the application of hatrick Investments LLC and Dakota Electric Association for a preliminary and final plat for a two outlock subdivision to be known as airlake DEA located east of Cedar Avenue and north of 22 Street and here to give an overview um of the pro project is Jeff shcker good evening chair members of the commission my name is Brian wman I'm with kimley horn I'm the engineer representing both the seller or the the developer in the area current owner hatrick Investments as well as uh Dakota Electric who's uh the the future buyer of one of the Outlaws that's platted as part of this project um so this plat is a continued development or expansion of what would be uh the airlake industrial area launch Park um which is immediately West so as part of this plat we'd be extending 222nd Street um to land which was I believe annexed into the city uh about two years ago and we went through an a process um with hatrick Investments at that time so this plat 222nd Street would be extended creating two out Lots one on the North out LW a and then out LW B on the south um which Dakota Electric would be a future developer and buyer good evening Madam chair Commissioners my name is Jeff shener and I'm representing Dakota Electric Association um our intentions are to develop the lot on the south the out Lot B um we're very excited about that possibility we've been in our current site for almost 5050 years we've outgrown it and we're excited about building a new headquarters so Our intention is to fully develop this site build a new headquarters Upon Our board's approval thank you thank you all right so as I mentioned this property is located north of 225th Street which is a gravel road that is served and maintained by Eureka Township and it's located east of Cedar and then um Farmington City Farmington is to the north of the site and then Township property to the east as well so this property was annexed in the city in 2021 so time flies right so um the property at that time then was zoned to I2 which is our general industrial district and it is guided Industrial in our comprehensive plan so the tonight what's in front of you is kind of step one of this process so it's just a preliminary plat for Outlaw two Outlaws for the subdivision to be known as air Lake DEA the total site is about 115 Acres um Outlaw a on the North side is about 31.399839 um they do meet any kind of lot size and width requirements for an industrial development um suar and water utilities are available to the site from the west but development of the outlot would require platting into an actual lot and block that process does trigger the public process again so at that time is when we would be actually looking at site development and site improvements for the southern parcel for Outlaw B so tonight we're just creating the parcels and kind of step one of this so uh St staff believes that the proposed plat meets the goals and policies of the zoning code and the city's comprehensive plan and we are recommending approval of the plat with the three conditions listed in the staff report thank you and this is a public hearing so anyone wishing to speak on this agenda item can please come forward Madam chair commission members staff thank you Sean rean representing hatrick Investments I think 30 years ago or so is the first time I came up here we're I too want to just tell you how excited we as owners and operators of this industrial park that has been in development for going back to Jack matowski and then his predecessors 70 some years well Dakota Electric here Jeff and his associates including the CEO Ryan henches we're really complimentary we want to be complimentary to both them and Brian and their team and the staff team for their your efforts to Shepherd this forward I think it's goes doesn't need to be said they're consequential representative in this whole County area and uh we're excited to be here and thank you for your continuing efforts to keep it Ming thank you anyone else wishing to speak on this agenda item Madam chair seeing no one else come forward I would move to close the public hearing second Motion in a second all those in favor of closing the public hearing please signify by saying I I all opposed all right the public hearing is now closed uh fellow Commissioners any comments on this one seems pretty straightforward are you ready for a motion Madam chair yes uh motion to recommend approval of the airlake DEA preliminary plant subject to the three stipulations listed in the January 16 2025 planning report second miss good road would please take a roll call of members Tinsley i i i Zimmer i a i Swinson zuzek I miss Jensen when will this one go in front of city council uh February 3rd right well thank you so much and best of luck on your project right agenda item number seven this is Midwest ENT a public hearing to consider a variance to exceed the number of wall signs permitted on one elevation in the freeway Corridor District district and here to give a brief overview is Matt oi or Matthew Oki hi there Madam chair commission City staff uh my name is Tony benusa I'm the CEO for Midwest TNT Specialists and I wanted to thank you for your time and consideration tonight of our variance request um first of all we're very excited to be building a clinic to serve the Lakeville Community uh so excited in fact that we've made an initial 15-year commitment to this property which is why it's so important for us to ensure that the facility is going to meet our needs uh from the beginning and that is the reason for our signage variance request I've tried to be respectful of your time and summarizing um our position and uh our stated objectives in a letter to you all but in summary I think the the fact of our business is that uh we have many different business units and um business divisions that are not intuitive to our consumers and as such it's important for people to ensure that they know that they are in the right location and at the right building and while a monument sign helps when you're driving around a development is not uh necessarily readily apparent that that is the right location it also helps people to understand exactly where they should be enter in parking so on and so forth and I think this is not un unlike uh other retail-based businesses that might have service line uh signage indicating some of the services they offer as I drive by the Lakeville Walmart I see that they have an additional grocery sign or home in uh Pharmacy to indicate to their consumers these are services that they offer that may not exist at every single Walmart so with that um that's the the basis for our variance and I appreciate your time and consideration I'd be happy to answer any followup questions that you have thank you good evening Commissioners this is a sign variance request just a recap on the location the Midwest ENT uh building is currently under construction uh they are in the Sundance Lakeville uh plat uh in their particular lot is located north of 162nd Street and West of Buck Hill Road uh they are Zone C3 commercial um due to the site's proximity to I35 they are within the freeway Corridor District which is an overlay District that is within our sign ordinance only um on this map it's it's illustrated by this black and white dash line um and the properties that are within that District have additional sign allowances um so for example the Midwest ENT site is within that District they have larger wall sign and Monument sign allowances um and then the line I can get my mouse to work here does cross uh 46 and then follow Kenrick Avenue South so for instance the moments memory care facility which is at this corner would would be within uh the freeway Corridor district and have that additional signage allowance but Bolero McDonald's and the office building that are just to the west of Kenrick are not within that coridor that freeway Corridor District um so they would fall under just the standard signs allowances for the C3 District um this is uh elevation plans I'll get a little bit more closeup on the next one um the signs are proposed for the west elevation that is the the elevation we are discussing at this point um they also have a sign on the East Elevation they are allowed a sign on two elevations because they are a corner property so the the sign that is on the East Elevation as well as the monument sign are both uh in compliance with our our sign ordinance there's a little bit of a uh enlargement of that west elevation um so they are proposing their primary sign here which is the Midwest ENT and then they have uh four other um smaller signs to um that are listed down here for their different um services or or activities that are included within their site uh they are also showing some vinyl um entrance signs above the entrance staff has typically um we've allowed those in other similar circumstances and unfortunately the best comparisons I can come up with are are more automobile related but for instance at a car wash there's enter and exit above certain doors or at an auto repair place um one may have a service and another one's got one lane strictly for oil change so um those kinds of things that are are non-commercial more directional in nature that we have typically um allowed just to help folks make sure they get in the right spot so the the signs that I have listed here do not include those entrance signs it also does not include the address sign or the address number here we don't consider that a sign we don't count it against the total as it is required to be on the building and there are certain size requirements for fire code and things like that so um the building address would be allowed regardless of of the outcome of the variance um and then just a closeup of that East Elevation with the wall sign uh4 Square ft their freestanding sign here 140 square ft um as I said earlier both of them are in compliance with our ordinance um this is the uh west elevation that they uh exhibit that they provided for us and then the east side with the the sign in the the monument sign in the distance and then the site plan just as a refresher this is the building's location we've got Buck Hill Road County Road 46 so again it's a corner property it does allow those signs on two sides um and then the one thing I just wanted to Quick go through I have my information here um we did prepare findings of fact and and variances as you're probably aware we don't bring a lot of those forward um the ordinance does require that in order for staff and the council to support a variance the request needs to meet the threshold of a practical difficulty and so the review criteria that are listed within the ordinance um are within that uh findings of fact and I just wanted to go over those quickly the first is that the variance would be consistent with the comprehensive plan that one's not applicable the comprehensive plan doesn't address signs um the second is that the variance would be in harmony with the general purposes and intent of the title um our finding is that the applicant is requesting five wall signs for one elevation of a single tenant building which is not consistent with with the surrounding commercial uses and other single tenant commercial buildings of a similar size in Lakeville and therefore it's not in harmony uh Mr Bona mentioned the Walmart um further south on I35 that does have additional signage um it is also within the freeway Corridor District the additional signs are granted because of the size of the building there is a threshold I believe of 45,000 Square ft and um above that the buildings are allowed additional signage this building is about 14,000 sare ft so it it isn't close to that threshold that would allow some additional signs um the next criteria is that the plight of the landowner is due to circumstances unique to the property and not created by the landowner uh staff does not find that there's any unique circumstances to the parcel or practical difficulties that would warrant a variance to permit additional signs uh that the purpose of the variants is not exclusively economic considerations don't feel that one's applicable here uh that the granting of the variants will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood in which the parcel of land is located uh other commercial uses in the vicinity of the site have the same or smaller sign standards and all have complied with the zoning ordinance finally that the requested variances the minimum action required to eliminate the Practical difficulty staff finds that there's no pra practical difficulty for signs on this new construction building uh while the total area of the proposed signs does not exceed the size allowances of the freeway Corridor District the applicants proposal for five signs is well beyond the one while sign permitted in that District um and then I guess there is one more uh variances may not be approved for any use not allowed um under that title for that zone again that one's not applicable as signs are a permitted use permitted accessories excuse me in that C3 District so staff does recommend denial of this variance um and then approval of the findings of fact this is a public hearing and I'll stand for any questions you may have anyone wishing to speak on this agenda item can please come forward Madam chair yes make you wait a little bit um motion to close the public hearing second the second to close the public hearing all those in favor please signify by saying I I I all opposed all right the public hearing is now closed fellow Commissioners yes madame chair can I just get some clarification so this is one business with other businesses under it yeah so technically we are a single tenant under the lease okay we have um full tax IDs for the businesses that will uh be operating in within this building we have some of the brands and the doing business as names that are registered with the state of Minnesota fall under one tax it and one of the doing business as names falls under a separate tax ID internally as an organization we do cost allocations and keep separate accounting to ensure that the separate business units are financially viable independently and I think that's what I was trying to allude to when I made the comment that uh retail space we operate like a multi-tenant organization in a single building in a retail space that would be multi-tenant of the same size would have much more signage allowed than we are afforded and so I apologize for not being clear I saw that in staff's report and I appreciated that uh distinction um we use multiple entrances and even within those entrances we have a separate vble that will then have directional signage to point people toward towards the right service line that they will be seeking from from our organization I hope that answers your question it does and then just a clarification the monument sign that will have all the other entities on the monument sign there are the service lines that we have um so I would tell you that our Monument sign is not our our desired path forward but knowing but knowing that um the city has a specific set of requirements we have taken the opportunity to utilize the monument sign to advertise our service lines or Our Brands in um in an attempt to to try to make it as clear as possible had we not already built the monument sign I would gladly forego that for an approval of our signage on our building um but I think what we've tried to submit incoming under in the total allowed square footage is a reasonable compromise to achieve our goals but still try to comply with I think the aesthetic feel that the city of Lakeville is trying to achieve and I think it's still very tasteful but will allow people to understand our building and this is very consistent with what we have in other municipalities so the entrances that are separate do they have different Suite numbers or it's still single use or single tenant okay say correct thank you much separate lobbies okay same thing thank you yes um Mr are you mrki I'm Mr benusa this is okay I think it's you I still didn't catch your name but anyway it's Anthony bonuso okay um the five signs that you're looking for uh are they in contrast are they they're all similar that's I mean what's your schematic for it will any of them be lighted or have any um dancing milk cartons I just had to get that line in um and then if you are coming for a particular service and you go to the wrong one how do you get from the wrong one to the next one that you need to be at yeah that's a great question um I know that there's a rendering that's submitted I don't know if there's a way for me can I also ask a question about the dancing milk cartons and if that is a reference to something that I'm unaware of um yes we're trying to maintain this is just a quick backstory I'll try to be respectful over your time actually as we do business business we have five different business entities that we do business as and we've tried to create distinct Brands as we've brought on different service lines so we actually have Midwest facial Plastics Midwest ENT Midwest allergy and asthma Midwest hearing uh and Midwest um face and cosmetic skincare we have tried to consolidate this down so that we don't have Midwest and and we're not using branded logos everywhere we just want people to understand that associated with the Midwest core Midwest brand that they are in the right place when they're coming for their Allergy and Asthma care so to to off to indicate those service lines we have used the same um sign type face and uh and size and color for all of the service lines except for the face cosmetic skincare which is its own its separate brand um they are back lit I believe face lit no dancing no CH M Keef architect Synergy architecture studio and represented for Davis the developer and owner of the construction what we've designed is with the letters they've got in the daytime it looks like a solid face or you know metal letter but they're everyone is kind of the new thing so I night the faces of them will light up but during the day they're kind of a solid color that aesthetically is connected to the other finishes and materials of the building but there are no dancing signs there's no movement signs I I mean we laugh but a lot of healthcare wants 15 minutes you know waiting or something like um you know display signage that tricks every you T you know well and I'm for a followup I'm thinking of the the Viking stadium and the Twin City orthopedic sign that everyone complained about because it was so overly lit so I mean they deserve a medal for getting that signage on that possess but with this one we as we've done in other municipalities is we understand we're not really overpower the the structure thank you um kind of what commissioner Zimmer was referring to the dancing milk jugs is we every year go through a ordinance update process and uh in the 10 years I have been on this Planning Commission there hasn't been a single single one of those that doesn't have an update to the sign ordinance and so we continually hear um from businesses from the public on ways that we can update that and it uh the dancing milk jugs come from you know those uh electronic display signs which we used to prohibit now we allow them um we used to have very strict regulations on how quickly they can change that has evolved um when we hear from uh businesses on uh areas where we might need a change our city staff does a really great job of kind of taking that considering are there going to be other businesses where this situation might arise um I am supportive of what the staff uh wrote in the planning report um with variances our hands are really tied they are in state law that uh every one of the criteria have to be met um I agree with City staff in my looking at it my reading of it that all of those criteria are met so I don't feel like um we have any other option but to deny the variance but since we do this ordinance process um every year you know I would encourage you to to keep dialoguing with City staff um if they believe that you know this you know we could come up with a solution um that can find its way in a future ordinance update I you know they will bring it before us we'll have another public hearing um we've had many people come before us with with requests that uh unfort it's unfortunate it's no for now um but because it's really important that our ordinances is for all of our businesses everyone feels that they get the same opportunity and they're treated fairly so if if changes need to be made that opportunity should be open to everyone else so um you know that's another reason why I don't usually like variances because you know we're just addressing a problem for for one individual so um I uh am not supportive of the variants and and plan to vote no but I really do appreciate um all the work you've done on this building really excited to have you be here in Lakeville um all of the services that you guys provide are things our community definitely needs and wants so um really happy to have you here and um just keep dialoguing with City staff we did the L nine different very similar to Mid had nine different special now and signage discussion it's almost the second discussion it might not surprise you but in three of the other commun that we have built in we have requested signed variances in two of them all of our buildings look at this at this point and I think I under I completely understand um the structure and the process and the reason behind it um but much like you like to provide a consistent experience for your constituents we like to provide a very consistent experience for our patients and the members of your community who as we do the ZIP code analysis are coming to see us in Woodberry in Badness Heights even and in Egan right now because we're not here we just want to make sure that they have the same experience when they see us in their own Community as they do when they come to see us elsewhere yes so question for planning staff just is kind of considering everything that's it's been said and discussed here um so we're in this box because it's a single tenant in the building correct correct so if this were a multi-tenant building would they be allowed to do something similar to this the ordinance does address um multiple occupancy commercial buildings um but it does uh require um tenants to have an exclusive um entrance in other words each business has their own space and those businesses then get their sign the uh Alina medical office that was mentioned off of 185th um that's the large three four story um building it does have signs uh for several of the tenants in there uh we do also have a provision that um and it was kind of geared more towards um Office Buildings uh or situations uh like that where there is one um single entrance rather than each tenant having their own so when those tenants have more than they don't have an exclusive exterior entrance but they have more than 20% of the lease space then our ordinance does allow um that business to have um a sign on the exterior um but again those were um you know separate different you know clinics from the how it was explained to me and we did look at the floor plans and and do those measurements um and they were you know separate spaces within that building and so the the signs were issued they did meet our ordinance requirements so i' I have a question with that um you said 20 if they have 20% of the lease space the net leasable area of the building and it looks like on here like there's a separate entrance for the spa and a separate entrance for the main entrance yeah that's how they have their setup I don't know if there's connection I've not seen a floor plan I don't know if there's connection once you get inside can't be connection or not um I you know if if the spa area is a completely separate and there's not you know once you get inside you can move through the whole building you know then perhaps we can consider that that may meet the the requirements for a separate sign but if it's simply two separate entrances but once you're in the building it's one large space um in my opinion that does not meet the the our definition or our intent of separate commercial spaces so ideally on this facade we could put a 10ft tall by 15t sign box with all those names in One sign box and that would me code okay question Madam chair that that was exactly the question I was just going to ask staff was um I'm hearing the numbers are below the 150 ft that we allow in total basically for all these proposed signs if they're rearranged in some way shape or fashion I mentioned that option within the staff report that if they you know put the signs in a in a different uh Arrangement and we can put you know one box around there and that box is 150 square feet that is how we have traditionally and I've Been Working On signs for almost 20 years in Lakeville um so we've been pretty consistent over that that time so mam M um in light of What U Miss Jensen had said can we ask the applicant is it separate entrances or Once you walk in are you able to just walk like is it an inside mall it's a good question um if you are a patient or a client consumer walking into the spa entrance it is going to be a holy separate experience that's partitioned off with a a fixed wall and it's not until you get to the very back of the building where our Clinic staff are going to be moving through that you would have um the inability to see a connection between the two businesses but it is actually designed to be a separate fit feel so that the patient or client in that case is going to have a a wholly separate experience from the time they enter to the time that they then leave they will not see a connection between uh the organizations the main entry for is um an a VES that splits in two directions and the same is uh essentially true of the the two different directions so you have a more medically based side that is um our hearing side our ENT side and our Asthma and Allergy side and within that they get separated out but they are still part of a larger common area the uh the facial Plastics medical side we see a lot of Mo patients Mo reconstruction and medically based facial Plastics reconstruction is a separate and distinct area within uh from that other medical side as well so there is there are there is Connection in the building um but we've tried to keep that mostly for staff between three distinct segs thank you yeah I'll add on that a little bit my son is a patient at Midwest ENT and Egan um and going in the vestibules are split so you can either go this way to go to one side or you go this way to the ENT and like he mentioned I've never even seen like the Spa stuff um and then when you get called back there's like a line of rooms right and so you're going into a room and that's where you could walk through but as a patient you really wouldn't go to like the other end um and you're being escorted and you're being escorted yes by staff so like they'll call you back and then they bring you to the room and you're in the room and when you leave you leave I'm I mean I will say I found the signage helpful when I went because the one in Egan is behind Chick-fil-A and it's kind of hard to find um and if you could please get Dr Zachary to come out of retirement I would appreciate it oh so do I so much so much okay yes I just have a quick question for staff is there a way since we've now learned that the spa is actually a separate entrance separate to clients customers patients whatever you call them um is there a way to have signage on at least that portion I think it would need to be a completely separate it sounds like from the patient customer side it's separated but for the employees it's still um shared space so not a door for employees to separate them away from the other practices that's for Anthony or that's okay I mean as a as a design process there are definitely separate rating rooms there's actually five as you go across for all the different sectors they're kind of sectioned out but once you get back there's the staff members handle multiple departments on a daily basis with different patients and there's also some you know one patient for ENT might to get to the hearing side so there are definitely connections just like in a an Al clinic or a Fairview Clinic and stuff like that but it is separated for patient experience with some of the lobbies and that is again kind of the front entrance of why we have two different you know entry doors and stuff like that so okay thank you it's intentionally designed but I will say flat out like they they're connect right like as an architect or even as an exiting purpose plan like the whole Clinic acts as one when you're talking about an occupancy point of view okay thank you yeah I just think from from my standpoint just this is a statement of position is I I'm sympathetic to your issue um and find the Aesthetics of your building would work well with the signage you show here I think we need to be careful from our standpoint that once we Grant a variance for something like this if we have somebody else come along that wants to do the same thing but is a little bit more loud um I think we need to have a little bit more thought than to Grant a variance today and I think as uh the other commissioner had indicated is you know let's let's think about this for a little bit and see if we can improve it make adjustments as opposed to doing something tonight that we may not necessarily find appealing at another time yeah and uh thank you madam chair and yeah just to build on that I you know our hands are also somewhat tied with the variance process because what we have to consider is the variance that's in front of us and it's a very specific process that's laid out in statute and there's an application for it and everything so there's not really an opportunity to kind of you know work on this on the Fly where there are some other projects when there someone's coming in for a you know preliminary plat where we can make amendments and add conditions are we're kind of limited to addressing the issue that's in front of us and there's not a lot of latitude that we can do to make changes on that so um once again I just say like you know I I really do appreciate you coming in and I I understand what you're trying to get at but um a variance isn't the the appropriate vehicle to to try to do it so I I took the time today and and drove past your vness Heights facility I having to work up in that part of the metro and take a look at that and also went past the Egan facility and and just got a feel for how this looks and you know all all in all I appreciate the thought that's put into The Branding and the way it looks and I'm sympathetic to the of what you're trying to do with this and it's it's all very tasteful and it looks very very nice um but also I'm I'm looking at her variance criteria and understanding what the requirements are there um and and this board this commission has taken that very seriously in the past in terms of what we do with variances and that type of thing I appreciate you mentioning that variances may have been part of the process on some of these other buildings as well um with all that being said you know positionally I'm in a spot where I feel like I can't support the variant here in front of us tonight um that being said um if we had other conversation I I know timing is of the essence in all of this and thinking about that but um I would be open to conversation as a commission and as a body with City staff talking about how can we maybe do this um also just again going to point out that hey there is an opportunity here maybe to rearrange the signage a little bit um and meet that that box of what um we currently require um so that's that's where I come out on this um and with that I'm not going to be voting in support of the variance request Madam chair are you ready for a motion I think so uh Madam chair I motion to recommend denial of the Midwest ENT sign variance to exceed one wall sign on a single elevation in the freeway Corridor district and adopt the findings of fact second I have a motion on a second um can we please have a roll call vote kala I Movic I Zimmer I twinson I Tinsley all right um we really appreciate appreciate you coming to Lakeville I'm sorry that it didn't work out in your favor um right now but like the other Commissioners have said please continue to work with City staff and hopefully hopefully we can find something um that works for both thank you um and with that uh the meeting is aded