[Music] range is kind of in phases so in an earlier phase the town was required to adopt a bylaw specific to elicit discharges um and and hookups um so nonstorm water discharges that people
are uh discharging into this town's ms4 system so the first bylaw in the um your agenda packet that's the existing bylaw that address addresses specifically that component of ms4 a later phase um of the
ms4 permit requires that towns adopt further regulations that um regulate um storm water related runoff from development so that's kind of where we are now and that's why um the town is
looking to update that current bylaw um with one that is more comprehensive that addresses those other types of that those direct storm water discharges so the um the second version in your packet
is the draft bylaw of that newer version uh the black text is so and and feel free to jump into you guys but the town had kind of a template bylaw that they were um provided by um a consultant I believe environmental partners and that
was provided to Ser head to kind of review and make sure it complies with ms4 requirements and that um it's including like kind of best practices so the red language in that second bylaw is
the new updates that sured is proposing um so that's kind of where we're at um and then I'll let Sara talk more specifically about um the the bylaw edits that we're working on now and then the feedback that we're looking to to get from you guys but that's a little
bit of History may I pass around a packet of notes this is not something that you have already it's about goals Maps land use and it contains a mini version of the draft bylaw and the changes sure
so our task was to evaluate and strengthen your existing draft storm water bylaw and later on we'll do the same for the storm water regulations at a later stage our process involved making use of mass a Bond's bylaw review tool a
spreadsheet tool that Dan and I worked on we went through it line by line section by section we colorcoded and compared against the rubric of best practices thank you so section one of bylaw
purpose we added stronger language to enforce the town's priorities of ensuring on-site treatment no new discharges into the town's Municipal storm water drainage system and effective long-term post construction storm water
management this satisfies 2.3.6 chapter of the ms4 permit by the way there is a new 2025 uh ms4 permit coming out but nobody has any
information about that because the EPA hearing has been postponed and delayed number two definitions we added nature-based Solutions and green infrastructure definitions and GI is a type of
NBS we updated the definitions list to match recommendations set forth in the ms4 permit we can skip Authority well actually we should discuss Authority yes Nate has some some things to share with you about
that the question of whether the select board should be the storm water authority and the building commissioner's role yeah so thanks for passing that on so number one I I think that the
authority um in this context is is the authority in which the bylaw is adopted I know that the Town planner um mentioned that the authority should be the person that's overseeing it but historically when we look at the authority it's what Mass General law gives us the authority to adopt these so
I think that you actually have that correct um in the draft okay so you know if if you want while we're talking about Authority in the other text um would be you know choices in which the town has uh to govern this so you know a lot of times we miss catching storm water um as
far as um when it goes to site plan review with the planning board uh planning board would catch it if it goes to Conservation Commission uh they would catch storm water um but there are a lot of one-offs that never even take a look at storm water and what this does is
this will capture that and so you get an anr plan and you're doing significant work and it doesn't go in front of any boarding committee it just comes to me for a building permit I don't have the authority uh to issue a stone water permit and this actually the way it's currently written gives me that
Authority Under the select board so we could stay with how this is drafted on the um administration of the bylaw to be the select board or their designate um I would be appointed the agent um for a storm water um Administration but it
would be under under the select board um other options could be the select board could designate the Conservation Commission uh Conservation Commission is is um appointed by the select board so it's a pretty natural fit but the Conservation Commission by themselves um
they don't have employees uh the conservation agent actually reports through inspectional services so I I would caution that a little bit um so we'd want to make sure in my opinion to designate it to uh you know staff um to enforce uh that way any violations of
the bylaw would also be enforcable by staff um another option would be if you wanted the planning board um to be the storm water authority which which can't happen um and then they could designate staff or just use um a consultant to do the
review so I mean as we work through this I think I would kind of keep that in the back of your mind because yeah that's something we're going to need to address okay so can we make that list yeah cut to the chase what are our options here so the options the way it's
currently drafted is the select board yep and um The Building Commissioner has appointed the storm water um agent that's one choice yep select board being the stone Water Authority and you can designate whoever
you want you could designate a consultant you could designate um Conservation Commission conservation agent that's kind of like a allinone but it's it's uh would be relative to consec so as opposed to the Building Commissioner yeah okay um or it could be
the planning board or planning board but like or their designated so the other part of it is to have the 50 53g account in in instead of having someone in house and you wouldn't do it yourself so you would
go through perview planning boardwood or whoever would just still need to go through that so like Michelle said and and that's an answer that we're working to get right now is uh 53g accounts is is an account in which an applicant um is applying for something for the town
it could be storm water permits it could be a definitive subdivision plan conservation approval something like that um they the developer or the applicant would put in um put money in a a peer review account 53g account uh to have a third party consultant come in
and do the review so you're not using uh staff uh time to do that so you know if I if I were taking this under the um custody of the select board I would ask to make sure that we established the 53g account and got a consultant under
contract to do these both administratively in uh performance base where they were doing U reviews of the plans and also doing um inspections okay so storm water activity is happening
outside of our visibility like it's it's just it's happening right so if we're you know the you know the authority on you know on this um and we have a design then basically
the um that design is going to be responsible to make sure that all of this is actually happening so it sounds to me like there could be quite a few different triggers right through the planning board through the
conservation um and through your um permitting of an anrs so to speak so how does that all tie in so if it comes in through the planning board does that then go to the design so we would would be covered under site plan review CU we already deal with storm water through
site plan review same with conservation they already deal with if there Wetlands involved so this would be for anything else now that has to conform to the storm water bylaws so that's why it's that's why it's here and then the other
part of it is that Nate already has under him the elicit discharge which should okay he pointed out there's something he's already administering if he's going to do that he to do this as well so mam chair um now Nate's
doing stor elicit discharge but what we're proposing here is having a 53g account which people would pay into if they were doing discharge that would be unfunded that would be it would be a peer review of the storm water so it
would be peer reviewed so the person would have to they would be charged for it like I'm I'm trying to yeah okay no that's exactly would happen so if if you triggered in land land disturbance or um perceived uh discharge uh they would the
applicant or the owner property owner would have to establish a a 53g account which is similar to what we do in all other approvals so is this just speaking for um these kind of offset storm water
issues that would go through you or would this be for all storm water no this this actually captures all of it all of it okay yeah yeah okay and this this bylaw the new newly proposed bylaw would establish
a permit structure a new permitting structure for storm water projects which could include a fee for that permit that could potentially fund the 53 G reviews if it were designing that way that would be a pretty substantial fee or permit
fee I would think right yeah it it would probably cover staff time so you know the permit fee itself would likely not go into 53g because 53g is a uh interest bearing account it gets returned to the applicant on unused
funds so you would have the permit fee would be a source of Revenue and then you'd have your operational cost that would get appropriated at to meeting that would be whatever staff time so when we were setting those fees we'd be cognizant of exactly what staff time it would take cuz this this still going to
require management right um so you'd have to you know uh manage and and coordinate uh Consulting activities and making sure that the reporting gets in correctly and and is shared so you know sometimes we get hung up on Authority having jurisdiction over stuff
but as long as we're all doing our job and sharing all the information with other the other boards and committees nothing really gets lost it really doesn't matter as long as you're doing it right right we I know we've only got till 6:30 Madam chair and like we're hung up on three out of like nine um I
mean reading the changes this feels like yet more work that we don't have money coming from the state to do so I would definitely propose whatever we do there's a 53g setup so that people coming through this system are the ones that are funding the peer reviews as such um I would I don't want to see
inspectional Services Task with all of this extra stuff cuz we're already tight yeah Madam chair same comment um you know whatever we're doing if it's the authority is going through the building inspector it should be the Authority for the building inspector to appoint it to
agency X but I guess do we understand at this point even once you've handed off for the peer review how much administrative and managerial work is there still to do inside the town's part of it I I don't I don't know this is this is another unfunded
mandate we really don't know how much extra work will happen um you know until until we get involved and start doing it and you know that's another thing with the select board being the storm water authority and having the ability to designate uh so if the you know select board's office does
get additional staff and I know I've talked to the DPW director about um passing all ms4 over to the you know Town Administrator and select board staff uh to manage that may be another piece that goes there so as long as the select board is the appointing authority
you know I'm happy to help out in the beginning and then maybe that mors into something different if it becomes too cumbersome I know just to me it just seems so I I was that is the way that it
is though that's fine I I anticipate that coming to my office at some point so we've talked about it so not a huge deal yeah I mean that is the way that it is in some Comm in a lot of communities that you know some there's even one person appointed from select board and those communities to actually you know
work on it on them I think dayon was for the longest time it was uh if if this is done correctly and managed correctly it it probably won't be as cumbersome as what it looks like um you know providing that we can you
providing the biggest piece of that is providing we can use 53g so um right now the draft language is silent um with 53g so we just got to make sure that that gets inserted in the bylaw um and if that if that happens I don't see why we
can't you know kind of farm it all out which one do you recommend question I'm looking is it possible for there to be multiple storm water authorities would that make sense so Michelle and I talked about that briefly um with the um the way site plan
review so site plan review is also um get inspired or mandated through ms4 uh to start you know doing the site plan review and in that early years our site plan review had an except exception the exception was in the event that the Conservation Commission was um being uh
petitioned for a notice of 10 you wouldn't have to go through site plan review through the planning board and over the years the planning board got into more architectural features and this was across the Commonwealth um and so it made no more it didn't make sense any longer to um uh have conservation be
this you know the site plan review I guess to some extent you know Authority when the notice of intendant was issued so you bring up a good point and if there was uh multiple authorities designated by the select board so in the event the conservation was having uh notice of attent in front of them and
they were doing storm water they're going to do peer review anyway and so I guess if we were all on the same page as far as who we were using for a peerreview consultant it's all it would be all it's like planning and conservation work very closely now so if they both are seeing
the same project um they both using the same peerreview engineer they're both getting the same information so you're kind of working together there so I I see this probably happening the same way it would just be the actual management so I'm looking at it okay Conservation Commission it's a you know volunteer
board um they don't have staff I mean they have an agent but the agents part-time the the agent answers through inspectional services and really the same thing with the planning board you know we have a planner but the planner actually reports the Town Administrator so you know how best to collect this
information and manage it and and you know get it out there probably is just starting with the select board as the storm water authority and then just having that language and their design and you know I think we got to button up um the outside consultant piece with 53g
and authorize the agent of the select board to also be able to enter into those agreements so you don't have to run back to the select board every 5 minutes and say hey we want to you know sign a proposal for um you know environmental Partners right or somebody
like that beels and Thomas to do a peer review either the you know the Town Administrator would be fine uh signing something like that or or you know whoever is designated uh by the board yeah I was kind of running that through my head too I'm like well what are they
going to come to a c maybe every two weeks no we need to move things you know needs to be a little bit more fluid yeah I ideally if the select board were that that party The Authority having jurisdiction it's nice a too because
being that Authority a lot of times you know you might get a zoning complaint or something like that that goes to the zoning board of appeals or a general bylaw um that doesn't have another Authority and it's under uh chapter 249 in this instance the select board could
hear complaints um regarding whoever they appointed to do the work so you know whoever that was if all of a sudden you had a neighbor complaint they said hey look you know the Building Commissioner didn't do their job on sowore he could go back for the to the select board to you know make a final
decision on that oh and that actually brings up one other point is I guess it's under zoning bylaw but it's really a general bylaw so okay it would be under General one of the last things that I mean I had highlighted here um
was the the fines um in the back cuz I know we had uh talked about making sure that we cleaned up our language a little bit on um the fines there's $300 per day with no limit right yeah because you know there's as long as we can enforce
it it's the enforcement piece of it that I think we had talked about trying to draft possibly a bylaw that would I guess maybe clean up clean up the rest of it so that it wouldn't have to be written into every single you know
area where fines were identified so that was yeah that was the same note I had we actually going to be able to enforce any I have Town Council reviewing that and they should be giving us
something let's this enforce this and all the rest all I was just going to say that um so there's you're taking all of this information into um consideration um for the bylaw I know the the planning board
would hold um their required hearings um and then it would be you know coming to town meeting So the plan is to have it for the annual town meeting M BR yes okay okay I I just had a couple I know we're not going to have time but since ced's
here I just thought I'd rattle them off and do with them as you may um so I'll save the most ridiculous one for last um at least in the patch that we got paid there's page six under exemptions right there's a whole lot of exemptions in here uh let me just read it real quick
again to see if I miss it the first [Music] time but I'm coming back to that um past few years there's been a significant rise of like power Wasing softwashing companies that use detergents and bleach and such I don't know if that's something that should be included
shouldn't be included I see we've gone to the extent of including like individuals washing their cars which could be similar chemicals I just bring it up cuz it's something new in the last few years you look like you want to say something over there that should be added as an exemption I'm just bringing
it up for awareness I said do with it as you wish you mean like someone would hire someone to come power wash their house is that happens all the time yes so Brian that's currently under illicit discharge so remember here um we're talking primarily about what goes into
storm brains and so if you have elicit discharge non storm water like car wash or uh you know washing machine or or some pump stuff like that that's illicit dis Che we already actually have that by okay cuz look at my street all the drains go into Elder's Pond yeah
drinking water so let's just wanted to it was such a extensive list of exemptions I thought it was worth bringing up to say here's a new thing that maybe didn't exist years ago um those I have was this what we already talked about fines like let's just make sure we can enforce them we've
had other issues with bylaws in town where we can't enforce the fines and then the ridiculous one was under Pages five and six it calls out dog waste yeah yeah you're right we actually in this town because we have a lot of
horses have a back in October of 2015 a public health advisory that also calls out horse manure and needing to clean those up and being fine so I don't know if it's worth changing that language to not be K9 specific and just say domestic animal or you know service instead a
service dog cuz then if you tie yourself in a service animal and suddenly iguana is a service animal the next day let the feds deal with that definition yeah it should be pet waste in general right so when I bring my pet camel down the street like
accountable ex yeah it's not a dog so I'm okay um but that those are the three I had that that's it so noted like I said take them throw them out you want do and are you suggesting that the car washing power power washing should not be Exempted I'm
not I'm I'm not making a recommendation it was just such a long list I said here's another thing that uses chemicals and runs down my driveway that's all okay anybody else from the S board all right good I talked about my dog poop I'm good well um thank you very much um
Danica too and I know you stepped in but she she was pregnant she went through attorney leave and came back and she got this done and I'm just very I'm very happy well I have Sara and others on my team to thank for that great I appreciate it um so as far as the um the
time frame goes um of when you know we would be voting or making recommendations um on the warrant articles for town meeting um you know just as far as like the dates and stuff um for having something you know final draft I guess they are aware of the next
uh planning board meeting and you said that they'd have a draft ready Thursday the 13th they they have their meeting in the evening and we'll have it to the group of officials by Wednesday evening okay great are you oh you're holding the
hearing on the 13th no just uh Thursday is our our planning board me so we'll have it so then we'll schedule the hearings gotcha all right Michelle correct me if I'm wrong the main reason they wanted to be here tonight is because they didn't want to designate the select board without the select
board knowing so they wanted to give a overview of exactly what this meant so if we end up going that route you know the select board's all right with that so are we voting are you looking for to vote to we need Council to look it over
look it over yeah but that's but you will want a vote that or can we just say it so you'll you'll give we'll give the final version to Town Council you and I mean at some point someone on the town's end just needs to decide who you
want the authority I don't know if that has to be an official vote in a meeting or not but needs to be designated so we know right so I Look To Our Town Administrator um who obviously you know would be um supporting this this board
um you know for your recommendation or support for it it coming here okay we would be looking at you yeah I mean the way the process is set up in this bylaw it's pretty streamlined I think to go through Nate
then 53g I think it makes sense for the select board to be the authority okay um so on a future agenda we're going to have to um I mean if it gets built into the bylaw um the 53g the 53g
the select board would still I mean you'll have to let us know what the time would be if it's supported through town meeting the Warren article um and then the vote for the 53g account after or if it would need to take place prior I don't
know yeah I don't think 53g is like a vote we have to take but yeah we'll set everything else up okay all right well thank you very much appr all the work thank you going finish passing
[Applause] that was some fun reading yesterday there was I am still not an expert on storm water ellot I focused on the red areas yeah the dog the dog was amusing like how can I not bring it you
like would you like to okay um wow it is 6:30 on the nose uh so I'd like to invite our next um WS up for the agenda item number
six Daniel ceri nice to see you again nice to see you how are you it's been a while last time I was here was 2019 I was doing the math on my way here but it's for the same project I don't know how many of you you weren't a select
board yet I think you were a secretary at the time right yeah I was a town uh coordinator at the time now you're running the show huh no I she's always the show um but really it's nice to um see you again I know you had reached out to
our office to Our Town Administrator and um yeah which one's Tracy Tracy right here Trac oh hi you're the one I've been emailing with thank you so my name is Daniel ceri I'm here uh to promote this
idea I have for a monument in Lakeville uh the stage that I'm at now is I have a partner and his name is Tom Frederick he couldn't be here tonight because he's teaching a class in Cape Cod and it just the timing didn't work but uh he's my
partner in this project he's a chief for the pocano tribe which is one of the tribes within the Confederation and they love this idea of this Monument for John sassamon who was murdered in Lakeville in 1675 depending on what
calendar you use and this murder Tri that ensued after that sparked something called King Philip's War which is the bloodiest war in American history if you go by how many people were living here at the time it wiped out about 30% of the native population and about 10% of
the English colonists over the course of about 15 or 16 months and we want to commemorate this man is uh John sassamon who first of all he's a Lakeville resident and his daughter is Betty and that's why it's
called Betty's neck they own that parcel of land at the time and the Pocono Community loves the idea we have a sculptor I drafted up some documents for a nonprofit so I can start accepting
donations I haven't filed the paperwork yet because it's kind of going to depend on how the feel I get from you guys whether you think this is something that you think is a benefit for the town and I've contacted the sculptor I've been to his studio with Tom Frederick my partner
and this guy's the real deal he's done monuments for people all over the world when I was there he was wrapping up something he was doing for Billy Joel for a project down on Long Island uh to commemorate oysterman uh Oyster Bay Long Island
and um I also have a donor for the first part of the project I haven't accepted any money yet again kind of get a hinge on how you all feel about this but the way the process work works with the
sculpting is um I have a contract from the from the sculptor it's $5,000 and we get what's called a mikette and that's like a basically a 12 to 20 in Statue and I would again I'm not asking for any
donations or anything I can raise the money privately but all I'm asking is if I if I accept this money from my donor and if if the sculptor creates this mikette are you open to mij just
bringing it here at another meeting and now we can talk about specifics like how big it is I don't even know where it's going to go yet so I don't know how big it can be you don't want to drop the Statue of Liberty or something like that in the middle of Lakeville but you know I'm thinking something like 10 or 15 ft
somewhere on public land the native community that I'm working with they're not looking to reclaim land or anything like that um they're 's a lot of grant money with the CPC I've talked to them they said essentially there's three
factors on how you get CPC money and it's something like it's something like uh for historical purposes there's grant money for that there's grant money for um um public parks and there's one other factor I can't remember but we qualify for that too so we qualify on all three
prongs you only need one so I'm not looking for like Town money or anything like that CPC money the money is there I want it to go to me rather than another project and it's going to be private donations all I'm asking is if I bring in this Monument
would you be open to seeing it uh there's no obligation to you are you just open to seeing it and if so is there a particular public park where you think you'd be open to installing and erecting and creating this Monument for the benefit of the Town any questions
Madam chair I if I can um I see that we have two members of our historic commission that I would love to uh invite up to the table I didn't even see Brian over there yeah hi how's it going see Brian yep so we have Brian Reynolds and Nancy
the faith thank you very much for attending um and I know I have quite a few questions and I think that um the board probably does as well um and I my understanding is that you've had an opportunity to meet with Daniel and have conversation we have a history
with this topic um prior to the 2003 anniversary the 150th anniversary in the 1990s we were pursuing the idea of a similar project with because of the massive uh impact of the John sas's
death on this area and the native population the indigenous population as well as the colonial and and the the ending result with King Philip's War and then the devastation after that so we approached at that time it was probably
called The Bureau of Indian Affairs or something like that in Boston and what happened was they said no that John sassman was a traitor and that they would be very much opposed to
us constructing or having a statue in his honor in Lakeville so we didn't do anything so in 2020 20 2003 when we had the anniversary we kind of didn't do anything with that project
and Dan came to us in 2018 and we talked about the experience we'd had back in the 90s and we didn't really feel that maybe the atmosphere had changed any or that the people felt any more positive about John so we suggest had a suggestion that
maybe acknowledging um the fact that the wamp dogs or native indigenous people were here for over 10,000 years and the importance of Asam at Pond we had originally thought at sha park at the hand of Highland Road would be a great site because there's such a beautiful Vista there you can still see some of
the white bags and all of the Native use and the migratory birds and everything it was just an important area so we were talking about maybe something not an actual person statue but a some kind of recognition or
where we would talk about the indigenous people and things like that so we were in pursuit of information through 2019 and then of course 2020 we had covid and everything kind of fell off the map but since that TI time we've had our vice chair Joan Vlad Morton has done
some contacting and she's talked to Mr Mills and Mr wixon who are part of the mash P and they basically said we don't do statues meaning they don't do statues and that they have would like to come and talk to the historical
commission about something that would be more appropriate so there's that there that particular mindset that we were caught in sort of in the middle of Dan that's my partner Dan really you want I I'll move over how
about if I just move over so thank you you're welcome both Dean and this gentleman have both talked at the Lakeville Historical Society programs for us in 20
in last year 2023 24 um so that's the right now that's the position of the commission is that we need more information and we want to feel that everybody's on board with this and it's not just our decision but it
would be sort of a group decision and then the final decision would probably rest with the board of Select could you rep now that my partner's here would you rem mind repeating some of that can um in in the 1990s we attempted to do something similar and we went to um what
at that time might have been called The Bureau of Indian Affairs but it's called something else now and they basically said to us that John sassman was considered to be a traitor and that they would not support us in any recognition of him so we didn't do anything thing
for the 20 2003 anniversary um since that time we've tried to gather information from other people and just most recently our uh Vice chair Joan gladu Morton has talked to two gentlemen Mr Mills and Mr I think
it's wixon and they both said that um they're not interested in doing statues they don't do statues is what the comment was and they would like to come and talk to the historical commission about something so how we could appropriately recognize the whole
Nation perhaps or something like that so that's just where we are as a commission we are meeting in March um third Wednesday and that's going to be on our agenda and hopefully we will if we if it's the if the gentlemen are not available to come that date that that we
would have a special meeting um hopefully no later than April you had something I'm sorry um so in this day and age where you know every few months you hear another story
about another statue getting pulled down somewhere across the country I mean how can we actually be sure of the information especially if the previous uh Bureau of Indian Affairs back in the 990s felt as though he was a
Traer and now Daniel and Tom are saying you know and we know the story too but I wouldn't want anything erected unless we were sure how do we know it's not a he said she said how do we
know right and we would look and for to substantiate any point of view we would want letters signed letters not just heay that's why we want to have um the meeting and and find out just what the position is because although I think you
know I know that Dan has really enjoyed the research and and all the information that he's been able to share about John sassman as a person whose ancestors were here but not in P area um they felt that he was not a traitor so I mean there's
two cultures with opposing points of view and the historical commission tries very hard to walk not so much the center line but to be able to give both credit and Credence to both opinions based on the fact that we don't know how the
mindset was we can project but we don't really know what it was like to be a colonial person or to be an indigenous person living here in in the early 1700s 1600s and 1700s here so for that reason we want to make sure that before
anything is approved that that we know what we're doing and for the same reason that you're I don't know if Daniel recognizes me but um I recognized it now yeah run the Dr yeah yeah um but I know he's very
thorough um I know you know um some of the things he used to do back in the day I was like wow he puts in so much time into everything he's doing but that's my that's my biggest concern as if we're going to you know put
up um would we call it a memorial or a statue or I mean there's so much history here in leville and we hear it you know through all conversations um with you know potential developments or you
know areas of land um and you know I'd like for us to do right by Lakeville and um I know we're already you know kind of a known area down here but there's some deeper history that I think you know
obviously there's some passion for it um to get it recognized so um May I respond to some of these comments oh so thus far should I am I supposed to wait um well I would like the board to um weigh in for what we've um heard so far okay we can
do that I can I stuff um I mean I would say you know even in the early the first few phases I mean once you've got your paperwork filed let me know I'll I'll donate um I think regardless if somebody was a
Trader or not a Trader for us to figure out now is is going to be near impossible but it can still help to tell the overall story of what happened in this area um I grew up in reham uh King Philip's War was something that we were all taught back there I don't know if the history is accurate or not but they
used to say that you know the Iron Forge was in you know Taunton rham basically had a agreement with the tribe to say if we would fix their weapons they would not Slaughter our people right so to hear some of these names come in in the packet I was like wait a minute where do I remember this from oh when I was like
you know fourth grade learning about this stuff the first time um so I think it's a great opportunity to explore personally um I can never remember which parks in this town are operated by the parks commissioner of the Historical Society so I mean I look at something like tamak Park as
something that we've kind of neglected over the years haven't really put any money into it and maybe there's a larger project that's possible there kayak launch yes yes kayak launch for M kandid very much like but I I love the idea and you know even if it's just pursuing more
to figure out we don't really have much like this in town we we we celebrate you know the tavern and some other things but there's nothing deeper really unless you happen to glance going down you know 105 in the woods but I'm I'm in let's at
least look look at it you know there's no harm in looking to Echo off some of member day sentiments um we don't have like a center of town we don't have things where it's attractions where there's
things to be looking at a lot of our attractions are just the scenery um and looking at you know scenery it only goes so far there should be something to to be said for it um I think a statue is a lovely idea um I I don't know that we'll
ever get any uh full agreement on on on what role uh he played and depending on where you sit it's always going to look different um but I think if we can find out you know what it costs and some of the other ancillary
things I I I don't see that anything really prohibits that I think it's slightly controversial but we shouldn't sway away from things just for the fact that some people might might not like them so
um I would love to obviously defer uh to uh to everyone in the historic as they they come up with what they think the best solution was uh for the town as they are they're the reason where uh we're able to to talk about historical stuff
and and have it they've got it codified and they've got a better grasp on it well we're moving forward towards 2028 which is our 175th since we weren't successful prior to 2003 perhaps this would be something that we could work
jointly with and then for it to be part of a large project maybe something that can go right along with something else um I hate that we do things ad hoc a lot of times we do things when the opportunity comes up and we're not really thinking
systematically or an overall Venture some more planning would go a long way to making some things a little bit more cohesive in town that's my comments R did you have something yeah um so a couple years ago
I was campaigning to have uh a golf course purchased and turned into a park and I was going to name it after John sasman so I dealt with some of these same people I had some of the same conversations um there was the idea that he was a traitor um which I think makes
this better as an art installation than a statue of recognition because in he he was a traitor in some ways because if he hadn't alerted the colonists the Native Americans would have killed everybody they would have won but because he informed them and he was able to be
stopped it it we are here today so I think if you're going to do it knowing that there's contention you have an opportunity to do it as a thought-provoking our installation as you know we are here today having these conversations and building it up as we
did because this man did go back on his people and he wasn't raised with the natives he was in an orphanage you know the history is all here um so in some ways he was a traitor but in other ways he wasn't so it's a very thought-provoking pie piece on this life and how life would be much different if
it went a different way I think 10 to 15 ft is a bit much I think 6 to 7 and the two places I could see it fitting in best would be on town hall lawn looking over asaam Pond or the old library which is currently an
Annex for the town hall because we have so many art festivals downtown and what you know downtown that people would actually be walking on the sidewalks and you know take time to see it and look at it um other places if you put it in a park where they have sports I'm afraid it might get defiled or you know gum on
it and stuff so I think somewhere that's not necessarily an active Park but a place that people will see it would probably be the best place for it if I may mam chair my thought of the tamak was if if memory is correct wasn't he supposedly found under the ice at
oamp Pond itself so kind of overlooking that area town all would do the same thing okay so just um I know you have a few uh comments too um but I don't want to lose sight that um we have some
energy for you know to do something um you know for the history of of Lakeville so um I think you have consensus of the of the board to pursue and and come back um with
something that um you know we can address so Madam chair the only thing before Daniel uh responds is if maybe you guys can just keep Andrew in mind that way if there's going to be a big meeting you can let him know and right
we'll I mean I watch so many Town meetings sometimes not until a couple weeks after they've happened so I'd really like to um just be a part of the information process Gathering because we're trying to um
have information funnel through the town Administration office um as the conduit to all boards committees and commissions and um so we just I will share that message here as well so go ahead please
Leah I didn't know your full name was evangelia it is yes the name of the monument is going to be Canan which is alanan word that Tom taught me and it means all of
us John sassamon was a Native American who was a Praying Indian which means he was christianized and he helped translate the Bible into Al gonin and I want to just explain some of
the specifics of how we've told our sculptor to sculpt this thing um he's going to have his feathers pointing down opposed to pointing up when the natives would wear the feathers up it
meant it was time for war when they wore it down it meant they come in peace and John sassamon was a man of Peace by trade he often served as a translator between the English and the
Indians and he's going to be holding a pipe and his translation of the Bible to represent this is a man of Two Worlds this is a man who would often preach Shermans as Tom has taught me about
Kenan We Are All One mhm we are all one this is where we this is the idea this is the direction we're going in this thing with this thing um ideally and again it's so early but ideally we want him to be standing on some kind of a footing that has like probably eight
sides on the footing and we'll have reliefs on each of the eight sides of the different people that tell story including Josiah Winslow who was the governor at the time and King Phillip who was the chief at the time and a
bunch of others we'll let you know when we get closer um this is an opportunity for people to come and tell whatever story they want uh I'm all about free speech um this is going to be
that I instinctively envisioned it being near foot paths as selectman donu was talking about I just that was exactly what I personally had envisioned um we can get more into the weeds as we get closer and we got a
couple surprises when you actually see this thing um the donor is Lakeville Christian Fellowship which is the church my dad is the pastor of and as I said there's no obligation to anybody I just wanted to get a sense of um whether you
were interested in seeing this thing and I'm really excited to hear that at least most of you are did you want to add anything about sason being a traitor I I would love to I uh to understand the the Dynamics of what was happening back in
early New England we even go as far back as massao and the spirit of compassion was what enabled uh the pilgrims to land and it was because of the group himself that he witnessed men women and children children that decided to help them
during that first winter uh with that being said um like sassamon massao also uh was seeing as a betrayer to allowing strangers to come onto the
land which ultimately led to its uh Wars and everything like that so the concept of of betrayal of the people is well well known uh I feel that sassamon faced the same situation learning to live in
Two Worlds and being a mediator meaning that you can see the issues from both sides and both perspectives um with that being said I think that the focus of unification of
people and standing up for what you believe in even in spite of the circumstances ultimately it's about doing the right thing that's within your heart giving the information that you have at that time you may pay the price for that
decision but the story of Ken and how we still had a group of Native and non-native people coming together to support an ideal of helping one another being
compassionate I think that this story is can be in all of us um how many decisions have we made that weren't necessarily the best ones but at the same particular point is it fair for organizations like the Bureau of Indian
Affairs or even the commission to see one side of it I think that as native people I'm not interested in one side of a story I'm interested in the full story because then we're embodying and embracing the concept that it's all of
us we have have the opportunity of continuing to look back at look what you've done or we can look at it as an opportunity saying look at where we're at and what do we as human beings wish to say for it and as a descendant of
John sassamon uh I like to believe that the very principle of what I stand for I believe he did as well do I see the best of decisions no do I see a spirit that
was led by compassion absolutely and the fact that he was able to embrace Christianity as well as traditional Native ways showed that he was empathetic to The Duality of existing in Two
Worlds so I I certainly see this as an opportunity for us as people to move forward and perhaps traitor or mediator is the message that there will always be different perspectives from the Native side as
well as non-native peoples but yet this is an opportunity to see all the different angles of different positions and realize that at the end of the day it's not where we came from it's where we're facing and where we're going and
so the positions that we talked about earlier facing the Royal and Betty's neck really is an opportunity for us to come together as Kenan people a story of all people that no one pain is
greater than anyone else's we all know what pain is we all know what oppression is we all know what suffering is but I like to believe in this world that we're fighting for human rights not Native American rights not gay and lesbian
rights not black white red y whatever we're fighting to be treated as human beings let's make that the point again disparities exist some people have better opportunities at achieving the rights that are necessary and some don't
even have the opportunity but to be able to acknowledge that at least we're trying and that we recognize Kenan all of us is a beautiful concept thank you Tom yeah thank you thank you for and LEL
is in a unique position has this incredible story that was really the pivot of American history and 350 years I think the culture can handle this conversation and I think it's time oh um
what do we looking for a time frame that you would be coming back you ever deal with artists before let me let me got that left too so yeah I get it his name is bukach you want your sculptor to be named bukach he's a little eccentric let me email him
tomorrow tell him how this meeting went and I will email Tracy is that okay and I'll kind of give you guys an idea of what he says and whatever he says assume it's going to be twice as long he can watch he can watch too sure you know just point him in the direction of you
know Lake cam he is an incredible artist uh but he is an artist so time is okay I was just curious to you know kind of see um looks like we have a little work to in April is sure that would give us some
time to talk and have April 25 26 the monument won't that little Monument won't be ready by then you know that right no I think that just to go through the process that we the commission needs to go through and okay talk to people sometime in a maybe the
end towards the end of April sure of 2025 for this year instead although we love history we don't like to spread it out if we can get things under so does it make sense for him to wait until historical is completed their part is
that what I'm hearing perhaps or I would think so but just to get all the information in one F swoop instead of having it coming in right as an artist I mean it's not that he's going to start today but at least you can put
him on alert okay but we would try to make arrangements to have something happen in April with um the people that we would need to talk to and find out where we stand in terms of that because we're
looking at both sides we're looking at the digigen side and we're looking at the other side and we need to make sure that we have the right kind of input to make a recommendation to the S board my excuse me my apologies I did
not introduce myself personally it's Chief when anamal Tom Frederick of the chap Pocono uh nation and uh we are willing and here to uh work with you and any information we can provide as a Lakeville
resident we are here so anything we can do to to help or uh uh how facilitate we're more than uh happy to do so okay and Daniel if you wouldn't mind um and Tom working through Tracy so she has
your title yes um accurate for the record okay well thank you very much for coming out um as a learning to be a history buff um especially with Lakeville I appreciated
the reading take care and we always like it when people are interested in history right right see thank you all right we'll see you soon yes thank you not very
graceful good evening everyone thank you for coming out okay um off to agenda item number seven um I know we did we know it's at that clock no I
looked over and I was I this happened to me I think right the time was standing still yeah okay would you please come back to the table I really thought I was seeing
things I'm having that that moment I saw you looking at but I thought it was vertico and awful awful awful the same thing earlier it's what happens when and some of you are you know taught
analytically right analog and then digitally so when you look at one and look at the other just yeah your brain just kind of goes into a little mush so okay so we are welcome back so we had brought this um for
discussion at our last select board meeting um and Andrew if you wouldn't mind could you kind of give us a little synopsis and kind of where we are right now now yeah so uh Rhino came um to the
board a few weeks ago um looking for an expression of interest to the community onetop program um I believe the first um ask would be just the uh clean up of the landfill yes property um and so the
board had um a lot of different questions about various liability um the process that's needed what goes into expression of interest um we talked about fiscal analysis on the property what anou would look like outlining this
kind of uh I guess deal um I guess what the process would be so I mean we've kind of gone over some of the pros and cons but we can certainly go over that probably after their
presentation okay all right great well uh for the record jri with Rhino Capital um I hope to be as graceful as our last group that was up here um but we as as Andrew S mentioned sort of following up
on what we had discussed two weeks ago um provided uh several different pieces of material a draft memorandum of understanding a draft of uh the expression of Interest some supporting information on some past um Awards and
grants that have been given out in the last few years and then also some supplied um the three fiscal impact studies um that were performed uh last year um we did put together a presentation um for the board that just
sort of highlights and and kind of hits on the big elements of those um various different pieces of information I'm happy to kind of go through that if we think that's helpful or uh or otherwise just sort of jump into kind of a a back and forth
conversation if you guys had the time to review the material I'll I'll take your lead like I said I'm happy to kind of walk through what we presented or what we shared but what's the pleasure of the board this evening I have a question already um on this page before we get to the
presentation sure um first it's the Brownfield Grant um yes structure so on the back for project description it says clean up of a publicly owned Brownfield site can we just clarify that yeah so
that is a that will be a drop- down menu in the um in when you go online and submit the form and they that's the only option to select otherwise if you say privately owned land you'd be automatically ineligible so I I actually
pushed back and said um what did I how did I express it I I didn't like publicly owned but I was told that that's just the drop down menu selection so okay thank you man think um just a follow up Brena
on the publicly owned part um theou that they're referencing would seek for the town of Lakeville to take care and custody of the parcel of land to clean it up in order to get the brownfields grant so they're basically for all
intents and purposes asking us to temporarily buy the the parcel to get the grant funding so that's to the drop down that you asking it would be in that if that was something the board was interested in that would be relevant
because that's the the only way it gets done because the uh a privately owned company cannot apply for the brown Fields thank you just as a as a one clarification item there if I may sure um it's It's Our intention that we would still own
the land it was the town would have an exclusive easement over that portion of the land um and we understand that that is sort of contrary to that publicly owned piece um and so that's something that we're trying to work through with mass development directly to ensure that
exclusive easement access does consider you to be eligible for that publicly owned category so that's something that we're trying to navigate it's not our intention to have the town purchase and own in fee any of the land that's currently there no but if we do have
care in custody and anyone can feel free to uh that obligates us for 30 years anything that goes wrong when the cleanup is happening if we have care and custody of the parcel yeah that's my understanding of the mass development contract have you guys heard anything
different than that I haven't seen that in writing anywhere um if if that's the case we can look into it like I said we're having active conversations with them to understand how we can be eligible for this um and again it's not
our intention we want to own the land we don't we don't it's not our goal to have a town own or to be responsible for the land so if that is the case then that's something that we'll want to work around and and address for sure because my understanding was once the care in
custody happened whoever was in charge or had care in custody at the time of the remediation would be basically liable for it okay 30 years even if that care in custody was to transfer after so
whoever was in um ownership of the the property even though you'd be the owner we would still have that I guess oversight for that area so we would still be considered um you know on that um and that was I think one of the the things
that we had indicated that um you know the no liability you know to the town like that's was our primary um concern um one question if I may we were also curious after going back and looking at
some of the programs out there um was there any attempt at and I'm showing ignorance of the process here was there any attempt at applying at the federal level or are you required to go through Mass development because they kind of divvy out the money at the state level so we've looked at Federal um Brownfield
programs um tax credits and the like um the landfill specifically is considered part of the solid waste division not the Brownfield division by the federal uh regulations so for instance if we were to pursue a Brownfield tax credit for or
to finance the removal of the landfill it wouldn't count under the federal program yeah and and unfortunately we don't have a ton of faith in the federal um funds available right now um it's we're going to for other
portions of the project we do intend pursue low-income housing tax credits or explore different Federal programs we just don't have a high degree of certainty and confidence in those because there was confusion because we you we were looking I was like well wait a minute it looks like private entities can apply Federal but
the mass development has a very specific language it says nonprofits only so going on so the the definition of the solid waste helps us understand that part at least yeah and I I can I can I had a a consultant dig up that language
so I can I can pull that court case that anything so that was our our big understanding was just as the the town will not um and I mean obviously we'd have to vote on that but um there is absolutely no interest that we would put
ourselves in any position today or 30 years down the road because we were saying that we probably some of us might not be here um so that that but the project as you know we've been in support of the project um and um you
know what you've presented and um and then the we come into this you know situation where we do know that this is um a critical piece to the whole puzzle and you know we knew from the the beginning that this was something that
you wanted to make sure it got addressed so um where are we now um I think that there's a little bit more work that we still need to yep Madam chair can I just jump in um and I might be misremembering so keep me honest also
for projects where where a town is advocating um just like that they're usually projects that have the greater good meaning it's not just for that parcel it's something like in the roadway or something with a Waterway or
something like that as well so just as just as an aside a lot of these things that people would advocate for for for the brownfields it would require a a public good and not just a a good for one entity right and I think that we've
heard that message um you know through other conversations not you know just with the the hospital project but um that would be for a municipal MH enhancement so um actually Madam chair I
think I do have a question so I know back in 22 when we were um trying to move the rezoning forward for the warehouse um I had done a lot of looking into I won't even call it research just looking into the actual
award amounts and it seemed to me that there weren't a m massive quantity of like the big the $2 million a lot of the awards at the time were a half a million doll I mean I know money's money and any money
is that you can get is good money but I don't know if you know that's a make or break that would yeah that's something that we are pushing very hard on to
understand what is the probability that we get deemed what Mass development calls a priority project which which allows up to a $2 million award yeah um we are doing a lot of uh we're having a lot of conversations I should say with
Folks at Mass development to ensure that our project gets put into that category ultimately it will be up to the powers that be at mdev that decide whether or not we're considered a project or this is considered a pro priority project um we're going to push to make sure and do
everything in our power to make sure that it is um but but you are correct typical Awards range between 200 to $250,000 for construction related remed remediation so we would be asking to sort of go above and beyond um so that's something that that we have taken on the
responsibility of making sure that we're driving this home and stress how important this is madam chair if I would um have you when you're working with mass development have you given them and I'm sure you have and I'm just asking out of curiosity have you given them the the whole story that the the state
dumped it yes the state put no conditions on it and then the state sold it to someone for a dollar yeah we we've we've given them the whole story and some of the feedback we've received
is oh it's this project again that's because I called 50 million times back in 2019 yeah I I think and and CH select day this is to a point that you had mentioned at our last meeting we can now say to them with confidence that this
project is real that this project has permits we have a real viable plan to go forward here with local approvals in hand with our meepa approval completed we're on you know we're closing in on getting our
discharge permit water quality certification Army Corps of Engineers like we are on the doorstep of getting this done and the hurdle that we're facing is just we don't have the financial ability to start to demo and remediate yeah speak for myself if it
wasn't in any way shape or form obligating or putting a liability on the town I would feel good about saying yes you know I I will put my support behind it but with with any possibility um now
or in 30 years of any liability it becomes a question of responsibility to the to the people of lakeo 100% And and we'll do our homework there to ensure that that that cons concern um we either get to the bottom of it to make sure
that that that's the case with this um and and try to structure it in a way such that that's protected we do not want the town to feel like um that they're obligated to do anything more than just be the applicant to this
process um so we we we understand the concern we hear the concern we'll do some homework and and get back to with more feedback okay and through that um you know obviously work through the the Town Administrator we'll get back on the agenda and um if we have any further you
know questions we'll work through our Town Administrator um so that he can relay that information back to you may may I share one other concern um this other concern is Far and Away Way Beyond you know less than public health and
liability but you know I I apologize but I don't remember at our last meeting if we got a clear answer on is this you know request one of five or one of one because the thing that we then have to consider is if we put our names out there and say we're going to we're going to apply on your behalf to get this
money right the state then starts to look at well how much have we divied out to towns and if this is over a period of number of years there is a a at least a concern that Lakeville is going to be looked at and say well we already gave him 2 million this year and 3 million here for
this so yeah they're not going to get their Ada Grant they're not going to get their Community compact Grant so there is that additional risk of like significant funding sources disappearing for years that we are not going to get and it's it's not it's not something I
can really quantify to say is it a dollar is it $10 is it $10 million but it it is a concern I don't know that we know how to put a a number on it have we have to ask that question because I believe I brought that up because that was a a concern of M being one year versus multiple years of right cuz if
the state you know the advice that we've gotten so far is if the the state commits they'll probably want to see it through right and not say like we gave you the first year now we're going to back out or whatever so so then that puts us in the position of like what can we get for the next few years from the
state if they're prioritizing a priority project in our town already I don't know it's it's an unknown but it's something I think we need to at least think about we' we're running a tight budget wise it is and we are dearly
relying on state and federal funding to see any of that evaporate so idea just popped in my head um uh I know I'm sorry everybody um but if we were to do obligate ourselves in
that way and it would preclude us for going for any funding would your team be interested in anou of some funding kind of a backwards funding like say we have a $200,000
project and you you've got $2 million of brownfields are are you would you be able to support something like that so I think for the Brownfield piece specifically that dollar amount has to go towards that project so you can't shift it around but for future projects
that are related to I think we would certainly entertain having that conversation we'd like to put a figure to it rather than it being a revolving door um but if that's something that that Bec becomes part of the conversation just just a thought is to
if we get blocked out and we have needs um not all of the needs obviously if we have needs the challenge is the state is not necessarily going to say why he didn't get it right like yeah yeah they there'll be challenge but there'll be
signs all down the road yeah there'll be signs they'll be like not this time you got enough Mr Kiki yes are you here um with with our Development Group or no as a resident you know you uh keep
talking about Apostle right and people out there in the TV Land um Apostle what's going on and shouldn't you identify it as Lakeville hospital is it Lakeville Hospital yes yes it is Sir okay so uh what is the problem that we
should uh let the people out there and a brief um is they couldn't do the project they don't have enough money is is is that the case um were you able to watch our meeting last because we um received
a presentation um you know from the folks here um and just looking for I don't want to say assistance but I'll say assistance um with some opportunity to help with the cleanup of
the site of that one particular area so but the company was supposed to do that now do we have um a bond okay in case they feel they say like they're saying now I believe that they don't have the money okay so do we have a bond well I
think that you're asking some good questions and I think that this is all part of the the dialogue that we're exchanging at this moment so we have not come to a conclusion at this time we're still in the process um but I can assure you that your um select board that's
sitting here this evening is looking out for the town of Lakeville but um do do they have a bond in case they can't produce we haven't gotten to this conversation okay all right um I understand that but in the future in the
future would a bond be a requirement is yeah before we do anything give them any kind of money or any kind of agreement that they produce a bond and we know exactly what they want to do okay exactly okay and that they perform
exactly what they say they're going to do now they can't perform now uh and I can't believe you people haven't um come up with a bond but that's the way it is that's the way you do business here okay we don't have a bond sorry but you should have had a bond we we have no
opportunity to have a bond the town never owned it the town never had any say over it you misunderstand me that they're going to do the work they has to produce a bond that they're going to do the development right and they can't do the development because they don't have
the money so if they had a bond that we could get the work done um do you understand I I understand but that opportunity for that kind of partnership hasn't Arisen yet so maybe that is part of the next conversation as we talk about this because they're they're not
looking for Town money they're looking for State money so looking for the town to apply for State money on their behalf okay but before that they weren't looking for State money um am correct the ask them well I'm just talk I'm talking to you okay I can't speak you
can speak through me okay I'm sorry I'm not used to this right um the other thing is the taxes paid on the property yes they are 100% paid on the property yes okay that's a big plus okay
but um I won't uh dwell on it but if if you um have any body do any work for the town you produce a bond they have to produce a bond okay and in the program if they're going to build 10
houses they're going to build 10 houses period they're not going to change it okay and that's what the bond is to make sure they the build 10 houses now they can't produce the money okay to do what they said they were going to do okay so
right and I think that you know I I can support what you're saying um cuz I know with the subdivision I know that the rules are you know in place for that and and the um the planning board does seek you know that type of support um from
the um from the ownership or the participant or the developer but in this case this particular case um rhino owns the property Rhino has a plan for the property they just came in front of us um to see if we could work toward um
trying to assist with some State funding and at this point we have made no decisions but they have heard our concerns um and we do support your concerns too but we haven't gotten to that stage of having
that conversation M Madam chairman I hope you don't support the funding for them okay they came to you and said they were going to do this okay and they can't do it okay so I hope you don't uh support um funding for them okay right
it wouldn't right I understand what you're saying so I do thank you because you you're creating a problem for the taxpayers and uh and now that they can't produce what they said they were going to do that that everything has to change
all the plans have to change no 200 no we don't want 200 houses or um 200 apartment buildings right or apartments right we don't want that well we haven't gotten to that place yet and um I think that we just need to take this as um
it's coming along because I don't want to get too far ahead of where we are right now they're still planning on moving forward with their project um but we have a a situation where there could be where they wouldn't be able to move forward with their
project so the town has not um to the best of my knowledge we we're not financially involved in this at all this is strictly their project and that's why we had no opportunity to do a bond of any sort you're not doing
the bond they're doing the bond for examp KI Please Mr Ki what it is to clean up the property to clean up the property it's going to cost about $2 million there are state grants to
specifically help clean up properties but you can't apply for it unless you're the municipality so they're asking us if we'd be willing to coign on it so the state would help clean up using State funds so it's not the taxpayers it's not
us but the problem is if they apply through us and we get the money we might not be able to get funding for other projects okay so at the moment no decision has been made we're just investigating if it's something that's worthwhile please don't give them um
we're not giving them a dive Mr K it's the same they dropped they dropped the ball they dropped the ball and who say they're not going to drop the ball after they get the money for the I don't want to keep this I don't I don't want to cut you off but I I I don't want to put any
negative um on any this to give precedent Madam chair like when the town does have an opportunity to be part of the transaction when the old police station was sold there was a performance bond in place to ensure it was demolished within a period of time or else the town would have gotten money so there is precedent to Performance Bonds
in this town they do happen and I believe way back when when the warehouse was under consideration I thought the select board had negotiated a developer agreement orou with Rhino before that all for a fire truck yes yeah but then
obviously things changed and they weren't all weren't allowed to move forward that that project and I I do think the planning board at some point I don't know if it was during the 43d pro uh permitting process had suggested a performance bond so performance bonds
isn't something that are completely you know foreign to us it's just right now we're at a very early early place with with us so what do you mean what do you mean by forign to us what's that well because we've done them in the past okay
yeah but um we're I'm asking for him to have the bond not us right we would not do that we making breakfast and you're talking about dinner you're just you're way too far in the process right one other thing and I'll leave you right I
promise now we need to downsize the scale because we have the cards right now we have the cards okay so we don't we don't want I don't want a big building for 200 people right I want small house a small
development and as far as the landfill we'll just leave it the way it is right if you don't touch it if you don't touch it and um because you're going to downsize this the the area okay okay now maybe Andrew is a
pretty smart guy maybe he can give a little bit light on it uh can I can we just leave that landfill there and downsize the houses put maybe only 10 houses there I think rhinos had a uh has a
permit for all the activity on the site so uh through 40b so we I don't think we even if we wanted to we couldn't could possibly change their plan project yeah just if if I may just a couple of couple of comments so as it relates to the performance bond the
performance bond will be a portion of our building permit so until we apply for a building permit we will not be required to post a performance bond so far we have not pulled a building permit for any portion of either the previous
development or this current development the performance bond will be a portion of a building permit issuance um as it relates to downsizing the project if we were to be downsizing the project we likely would be coming back asking for more money than we already
are um the density supports the demolition so without density we can't support the cost of demolishing the buildings and cleaning up the site yeah but we're not giving you more money okay we're not giving you more money and I'm
asking the board not to approve the money okay okay it just let the place be so we're we going on to the the next pH but please watch our last meeting so you can understand exactly what they um had come
in front of us for so um you're well versed I guess in in what we've already stated you attended this evening hopefully um we'll see you back in the
next four weeks you really want to see me back again you're going to welcome to come anytime Mr yeah I know you're a sweetheart so I'm really not yeah well okay ask my kids okay no but thank you
yeah okay all right thanks a lot thank you you're great Andrew thank you thank you and smart he is very yeah okay I was just going to ask you madam chair I mean is this a revisit this in a few weeks or is this revisit
the next time the program opens next calendar year or I'm just not sure when we have all we have some questions that we need answered I think you going to go and and look into that too um and we obviously need to ask that question that
if um there is no liability to this town whatsoever if we were to support this uh how tied up are we for future well Town Council did say they could write something up I mean I don't know what
that would look like to like limit our liability so we could explore that another question I had I don't know if this is like a deterrent on your project as well our understanding is you would grant us easement would that have to go through town meeting
approval if so would that does mass development require that before you apply or can it be afterwards it's that's a really good question I I don't know the answer I would actually tend to defer to Town Council on that on when that easement has to be in place and is
also something again getting back to what common earlier we're looking for clarity from Mass development that an easement counts as publicly owned to ensure that we are eligible um because it's not a category
exactly so we want to make that that's a big piece that's been what I what I learned and sort of educated myself in this process is that these funds are funded through bonds through through Bond bills and the I don't know if it's Federal legislature or state legislature
requires that those F Federal bonds are issued through municipalities so it's not like this is this is something that everybody is is dealing with so I'm looking for Clarity on whether or not the easement piece counts is is the short answer um and in doing so I assume would also get clarity on will our
application need to include a documented easement that says you know here we've we've done this it's executed here's the here's the proof essentially okay my only other question is have you heard like any um I don't know the word for it but just
have you talked to anyone at Mass development that kind of says like unofficially like this would be a good idea yes that that's we are having like I said as many conversations as we can to ensure that we're submitting an an application
that abides by the rules that meets their criteria that will be elevated to a priority project um so we're banging down the doors to make sure that we're having those conversations and we're getting in front of as many people as we can um if the feedback we get in that process is hey you
know we don't think you have a chance sorry like we don't think this project is real or whatever reason they have the easan doesn't you know doesn't check the box for us then we'll we you know we'll be forced to look elsewhere um we believe this project fits the bill for what they're looking for and what they're trying to do with the um funds
that they have um but ultimately it'll you know the decision is in their hands and we'll try to make sure that we're positioned as best we can I would just say the board that the uh expression of interest that they submitted they don't it's not a required thing it's like encouraged but so if you feel forced into like saying yes or no tonight they
can still like come back and get all the questions answered and still apply and I think it opens in May May 14th or so yeah the deadlines in June so I think what what if you don't mind what I what we would ask tonight um just given the expression of interest is due on the
26th so I guess we could come back in in two weeks and and have a follow-up conversation this expression of interest is a non-binding commitment it is not saying hey we're going forward it rather gives the state an opportunity to say
hey your project is fits the bill or it doesn't or hey we actually think that this project is better suited for a different category within one stop um so that feedback can be really really helpful and can put it on their radar that hey this is coming down the pike so what we would ask tonight is if the
board is is feels comfortable um is allowing us to coordinate through Andrew with submitting this expression of interest that that you all have been provided um so that we can start to get some feedback and and make sure um we're not you know wasting your time that we're actually moving in the right
direction for next meeting is the 31st right Madam chairman uh it's my understanding and somebody had told me and I don't know if it's correct that there's not enough money to do the project so in other words there's uh the government or
the state whoever there's enough money to probably do the landfill but to go the next step forward there's not enough money in the account I don't know if you heard that it's not my be here say it best
yeah okay so if that be could be derogatory theel so that's why I didn't want to go into any I wanted to keep this conversation ongoing so one other thing and that's the last and I'll leave okay
um there was always a trailer there a god uh watching the property right now how come there's no trailer there in a guide okay Mr Kiki I think you have a good question but this is off topic for our discussion this evening so you can
hold that or maybe you could go through the town administrator or maybe um to get your answer but um I just need to know from the board this evening do we direct um Our Town
Administrator to put in this letter um of interest I'm know at this point too many open questions yeah I feel like I need an answer to the liability question same okay if it's
non-binding we're not agreeing to anything but I feel since we're not meeting before it closes we don't have an opportunity to get answers to the questions it's non-binding so there is no liability at this point I understand
why you're all saying no to be perfectly clear I'm not saying I'm sold on it but if it is non-binding and we're not meeting until after the deadline closes right I'm going to ask um Our Town Administrator for a recommendation um but the chair can always schedule
another meeting so big ANS yeah true and which is why I'm asking Our Town Administrator for a recommendation I'll just I mean I've put it in I put in a letter of interest for this program like a few weeks ago they gives you back good information they might like you said he might come back
and say this is no good possibly um I would say to go forward with it and then in 2 weeks time you could say we don't want to do this anymore um we can find all these answers I'd rather get clarity from Mass development instead of like I don't want to call
them back room conversation but it kind of brings it out into the I don't want I don't mean that in derogatory way um but gets those answers on paper just it's more information we can get to make an informed decision down the line Madam chair for you um is there any way shape
or form that by us looking for this that we get put on that that allocation or possible list where they when we're going and looking for other things of the same vein where they will automatically kind of put away our
ability to apply for them I wouldn't say so and is there anything that we're applying under that right now no I haven't come back to that for authorization I was going to come back with an economic development strategy that'd be like 20 30,000 small amount
this is obviously thew that um but the likelihood of us getting that it's hard to say hard to say I don't know what how the state looks at this project and says let's just get this done already and they might just fund multiple deals it's hard to
say okay so um I'll entertain a motion um to support the request to submit the um expression of interest to um Mass
development Mass development right yes yes okay um for just I I saying it right am I asking the right motion expression of Interest Master to submit
a um expression of interest to mass development for the 2026 Massachusetts community on stop for growth grant program okay for Brownfield development okay thank you it was right here I don't have whatever you're looking at so you
got to repeat it slow so I can type it um all right it's on the second page at the top so I out of my head to support the request to submit an um an expression of interest to the
2026 Mass Community OneStop growth grant program application for brownfields redevelopment grant for brownfields redevelopment Grant and we have it and you can have my copy it's on that page okay
okay so motion so second motion and a second is there a discussion this is just a motion to I'm like this is just a motion to submit a
letter of um expression of Interest that's it we are not bound to anything amen doesn't change amen okay all right well baby and I Caron thank you very much we appreciate
it we'll be we'll get you some information um and like we'll back in the 31st you said is your next that's when our next schedule Mee great thank you thank you all thanks for your uh patience as we work through our
absolutely clock and time and were you guys even doing that yes of course yes of course awesome thank you Mr Ki are you staying for the whole meeting meeting over no we still have more business okay we still have a
couple hours left okay out of here right okay I'll see you tomorrow thank you very much yeah sounds good okay um agenda item number eight discuss and possible vote on letter to uh executive office of
administration and finance regarding a bond Bill funding Andrew would you please yeah uh thank you so basically since my first day I've kind of heard that there's Bond money out there of some degree um
I found I've since found out it's two separate um allocations they both come from like five and seven years ago one of them is the 2.5 million for the bridge street light I found out that that's no longer available to the town
um that's from Senator rodri's office um so what's remaining is 1 million um allocation from dcam Administration and finance secretary um for $1 million and uh in your packet
it kind of weighs out what it's allowed for which is provided thir further that 1 million should be expended for infrastructure upgrades and Capital Improvements to encourage and promote the ReUse of the former Lakeville State Hospital site in the town of Lakeville I
know someone looking for money actually yeah this doesn't explicitly tie to Rhino um it could be used for a number of items uh traffic light like we just kind of mentioned before um water
Wastewater anything really that meets that definition but what Senator Rod's office had told me is that they want to see a vote and a letter from the select board to uh secretary gorkowitz I think is how it's pronounced to basically get
the ball rolling now I've talked to Senator Rodricks he still says it's a 50/50 at that point whether we get that or not um um what Senator gor was will look at what we're looking for and then kind of say is that a good idea or not
and then he would put it on the capital Improvement so would there be there would be some ad advocacy that would need to take place at this point so all right so um I'm really bummed to hear about this um Bridge Street light because this was a concern of of ours
for quite some time but that being said this opens up a whole other conversation that this board um has concerns about which is the development and potential development on Route
105 because a light at Bridge Street is one thing right but we have more development happening in that congested area as you know as the plant have been coming in front of this board so um maybe the light is still something of you know that needs to take
place but I think that there needs to be some kind of collaboration study something to say okay these are the projects that are being proposed coming to fruition and this is the area that it's going to
be um hitting the hardest is the bridge street light the best or is there another option to make that happen I think there was a roundabout that came up in a conversation I don't know what the answer is I'm no expert I just know that this is a concern
so I don't sure that that whole stretch from like Bridge just look at the map Bridge Street all the way to Commercial Drive like pulling in and out of any of those side streets is a nightmare especially with the curve in the road there like I don't even where to start besides slapping a light in every one of
them like it's just difficult because I feel that it you know we might have addressed one issue because of the Bridge Street you know coming out of Bridge Street this it's just awful um but I think think that it's shortsighted because of the rest of
what's happening there um I mean we saw in one of our um presentations to to this board that one of the developments that would be taking a place across the street would have an entrance that was not at that
intersection it was further down but that would still cause concern with people you know I'm no traffic study but you know I can visualize the chaos that that would create so Madam chair um member day for
Bridge Street when you're coming out is the funeral home directly across or still down name picture it diagonal to the right so there's like the end of bridge there's kind of like the old one of the old driveways to the hospital
which is not the parcel Rhino owns it would have made sense if they were able to get that one then you had the funeral home y then between the funeral home and the new Self Storage that's where Rhino's one of Rhino's driveways for the assisted living in the 40b would be okay
and then just past that is the new apartment buildings all on the same side it's just going to be Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam all higher traffic exits on the Main Street so because we can't obviously um
retrofit something in there is there an opportunity to do like they do in Florida where you have the offshoot road that gathers all the little roads together do you know what I'm talking about know exactly you're talking about like when you you pull it in and then
all those exits so they're going out one exit that's St road though right yes but alongside of it it's not all those buildings are too close to the main but I think that this is a discussion and you know with the experts the engineers
you know could certainly okay can we just back up for a second Madam chair so the 2 million is gone no way to get it back two and a half two and half 2 and a half no way to get it back that's what their understanding was as do you know as of when it was gone
yesterday it would have been 5 Years From 2020 which I know is recently but they they seem to think it was long gone okay yeah unfortunately we kept no there's something funky going on so we had it in 2019 and then they issued it
in 2020 and then it fell asleep for a while and then 2022 I remember seeing um former Town Administrator pick it up again and they had to do a brand new study in 2022 in order to qualify for the
money and so if if there was a qualification you would think it would have restarted the clock of some sort because how long it wasn't like it was It was a sleep we kept reaching out to the state on how it was 250,000 for
the engineering and that was what was holding up us doing it why why do we need need to do engineering on a state road I don't know but at the same time I know that that was the holdup and I know there was some contention over it as
well being the holdup for a while but I don't think the bo I don't think there was no appropriation from town meeting to do that engineering my understanding right no no nope so once that happened can can we get a heads up when something's going off like if we have
dates on stuff we should be putting it somewhere this is the second this is way bigger than the other one we had gone for Bond bill for 100,000 for it infrastructure anywhere in town um it just dropped it was just gone that's a
drop in the bucket for $2.5 million this is nothing we will ever be able to fund out of our budgets so what we could do is hypothetically we could get approve the engineering design through this Bond Bill and then get it on the tip to pay
for the construction right which is something that benefit us it will be great in 2030 right long time now yeah all right so um I guess we we don't have to commit to a specific
direction for this but we know that it's whatever it is is going to be used for this we have to I thought Andrew just said we have to this is our letter here to promote the ReUse of the but it says TBD at the bottom so I think you're looking for some Direction that's where the direction would come from yeah we
don't have to take this vote tonight it's we have the funding till kind of funded kind of ear marked until June of 27 well I don't want to lose it so do you want to um can come back at time and yeah I mean I I still think after not
being prepared when that arpa money came again I keep saying this a million times I don't I know that was probably a onetime thing but we still have no real like concrete water plant in this town right
so it's like we've extended it to here and now we're going to extend it a little bit more and there is some question how far it goes up count and you know I wish we could just figure out where all the water lines are I know
we got that little tentative map but it's not really comprehensive detailed right um so you saying something like that as opposed to upgrades and Capital Improvements for
this um for what the Bridge Street right well I'm just saying that's one thing that would interest me okay well but this has to tie back to the hospital somehow right lights correct
y um have we have we reached out to any of the the utilities that run down Maine and say like is there anything here that needs upgrading or repair or I've reached out to mbaro um they have a broken pipe it's about a million dollars to fix but they don't have the capacity
to give us any were for the foreseeable future right so even if it was didn't they just do get a new treatment plant they did but not they have they have so many developments over there that they it's already obsolete yeah good planning but everything come mil dollar
increments not even half a million anymore they have four or five major developments over there that all housing so I don't they said don't don't Bank on don't call don't call don't call us we'll call you yeah um and what about
now if I'm remembering there's two water lines that almost converge and they don't yep in there so is Taunton interested in extending that line yeah as long as they have to pay for it they'll they'll do anything you know but
is Taunton on the um the other thank you yeah can we just repay that part mhm of course yeah frankly I'm so happy so do you we need an answer tonight on this or should we all just send you a
suggestion and then we can get it ready and then vote on it yeah brainstorm I think would be the best idea I want to rush into it and can you bring it back on the 31st yeah yep okay I'm still having a hard time with that 2.5 million I have to tell you me
too I still think that we've reached out enough to them that it never was that sleep asleep yeah I think it got allocated for other
reasons all right you got that Trace we're going to bring this one back to on the 31st okay all right so now agenda item number 11 um this is from our Department of Public Works director um this is
something that we haven't seen in the last few years uh but this is about uh a request for vote to authorize the deficit spending for snow and ice um for fiscal year 2025 because we've actually had snow
this year so um there's a memo here um just to due to the increase um salt in ice events related um vehicle maintenance we will be exceeding the snow and budget um
pursuant to the general laws chapter 44 section 31d as amended by the municipal modernization act um please authorize uh deficit spending for snow and ice removal for or snow and ice for fiscal year 2025 mam chair yes I was under the
impression that because you were defined as the chief administrative officer that this did not have to come before this board doesn't technically have to come it's more of a transparency uh yep we have know this year good thing to know we did have some
so all right so um I'll entertain a motion uh to authorize uh the deficit spending for snow and ice for fiscal year 2025 so move second motion is second any discussion um where we at MoneyWise wise yeah um I think we're
right around zero so left well zero left yeah that's what I mean so we're just about any the next snowstorm we're in the red Y which I hope doesn't happen well we're in March we'll probably get one more yeah I mean this also covers like the nights when it doesn't snow but
it's iceing you have to ice so there's been a lot of that but not a lot of snow M some fake snow storms yeah any further discussion hearing none roll pleas baby and I T ey carbon ey
do no snow no snow no ice No Agenda item number 12 our Lille Arts Council has put in their request um for the annual Lakeville Arts and Music Festival um for the dates of September 30th through
October 10th and that covers the event that would take place on October 4th from Saturday October 4th from 10: to 4:00 p.m. there has to be set up in the beginning and clean up in the end so therefore the dates of the request are
September 30th through October oer 10th 2025 so I will entertain a motion to approve the use of the historic townhouse stage and grounds and Dick dickran Square for the annual Lakeville Arts and Music Festival from September
30th through October 10th 2025 so moved second Motion in a second any further discussion the bathroom might be done by have bathrooms done by then or is it still Porta Potty Time
I don't know that we could be I think they're moving right along should be close yeah all right any further discussion hearing none roll please baby and I Johny ey carbon ey Cy okay well going to wait for
Andrew all right I'm I'm going to switch positions I'm here do we all want to take a a 4 minute break recess sure sure yep okay they
can e e e e e e e e e e
the old folks make sure walk them down that's awesome okay we are back from our 4minute um recess uh we're heading into agenda item
number 13 um so Our Town Administrator is um presenting to us a kind of a reorganizational plan um for the select board Town Administrator offices so Andrew take it away okay thank you so since I started I've been a lot of like
um I guess looking at each what each department does what my department does um and I kind of right now looked at two positions in particular that I think would help out the community a great deal um and actually would save money in
the long run um which I think are two of the goals that the select board has one of them and I'm not sold on the title so I'm open to feedback on everything is the administrative specialist which would replace the assistant to the town administrative position it would pay
65,000 to 72500 um and it would have three I guess Drivin functions one would help out the HR department now we shouldn't say HR it's it's more like a crossover so I was
thinking relative to HR would be Communications the newsletter um it would involve strategic planning which I haven't introduced to you guys yet but that's coming um it would help the finance office especially with the budget and the big piece I know uh
select board member Fabian really wants financial reporting um and I think that's coming um but that position would kind of do the the grunt work on that um then it would help out the town admin's office in particular with grants
procurement reporting help out with committee and coordination amongst them all um ad hoc analysis day-to-day stuff and then the other big piece is project management um so that is one thing it's
going to be a very busy job um so it's going to take someone either internally or externally that is going to like doing the a lot of work um and the other position that I am proposing is the
finance director SL toown accountant um they would kind of overse they would oversee the treasure collector the accounting office and they would have a loose um affiliation with the board of assessors um they wouldn't necessarily
oversee them but they'll have a big almost symbiotic relationship MH um a lot of reports going to come out of that office they're going to have a big say in the procurement side of things um Mike does a lot of the the budgeting
right now um so I think you're going to see it you'll see the budget in a few weeks but it's going to look a lot different next year and he's going to have a big say and all that um and so I think he'll kind of solidify the
financials in the town um I think we're going to go through a period of I want to call them Dark Times financially but I'll say dark times financially um and I think he's going to be the back stop of a lot of that he's going to have a a
more of a firm say on assessing treasure collecting accounting budget procurement he's going to make sure everything is up to par um and we'll have a close relationship and one of the big things I think the board has kind of had as a
goal for me I guess in particular is to have a um lack for better term is second in command so if I'm ever out of the office he'll be tapped as I don't want to say acting but he'll he's he he'll be the one in charge um
and what have kind of done to prepare him for that is I invite him into a lot of the meetings that even have a a semblance of financial or into it so he has a lay of the land of all the issues that I present on every week and so I
think he'll be someone that'll be here a long time and hopefully Act as as me when my absence so um these are the two positions the third one that I don't have in front of you for
tonight is the administrative assistant to the select board as you know Tracy will be retiring in August um over the years she's had a lot of responsibilities um I think some of them have been kind of unfair with just the amount of Duty she's responsible for
it's just it's an incredible amount so I I would think this position that we would kind of create eventually is going to take away some of the the extra stuff that I think bur into week to week um and that stuff will go over to the administrative specialist and this new position would
kind of be 60 $60,000 it would still still be 32 hours a week but strictly kind of tied to the select boards functions especially with agendas and dayto day so um that's kind of what I've
envisioned um I didn't really mention it but the finance director position would be 100,000 which you believe it or not it's kind of low um Rochester is advertising right now for $130,000 so's leaving what suzan yeah
she's finally retiring in June so um end of an error yeah definitely and uh definitely a HomeTown discount for the town accountant so he enjoys he enjoys it um so
definitely help to have someone in house that can do the job for 100,000 I have a lot of comments good ones so with the administrative um specialist because I'm thinking bigger picture here um because there's a lot of
um you know crossover uh there's some under the special projects but I think that they need to be defined somewhat is the green communities um that was a huge um you know piece within the office
um we've got Route 79 coming there's a huge administrative um component to that um there's also um the MVP which is the municipal vulnerabilities preparedness
um grant that we I guess we're kind of fell out of compliance at this moment so um we need to be brought back into compliance because there's a lot of Grant associated with that um and then it's
our hazardous mitigation plan which our fire chief had picked the ball up on that and ran with that so this those kind of like projects that are happening but they're not all the time but there are certain
requirements that have to take place for for those and I don't want to see that not have administrative support cuz they're pretty critical to um you know the work that we've put into here at the town to be receiving those designations yeah I didn't put it
specifically in the description um but this person would do all that okay um do we have a Superman cape too well it's it's going to be a so the office right now is pretty close relationship between myself Lacy um
Tracy this person is going to be close um Mike um so we we kind of like all lean on each other for different things so okay okay I have a couple you go first I might turn into more we'll see I
mean uh first of all I'm like thrilled to see some like just reorganization here I've said in the past multiple times I felt like a Town Administrator just has way too many direct reports there's no way to time slice across that many directs so I really applaud the fact that he went out and did that on
his own and identified that um I am concerned given how um you know he and Mike have been trying to find every nickel possible for these next couple years my my concern would be is this enough support given what's coming in the
town's growth right I think this is very well thought out um but I don't I don't know that it's going to give us that cross training that we've talked about if somebody's out for an extended leave um so I love what he's put together I
don't know if we should be saying hey this isn't the time to to sacrifice and burn out like if there's if you're concerned about the cost what would you have put in front of us uh because may maybe it's another smaller position I'd like to see perhaps the administrative assistant be 40 hours so we've got like
full coverage during the week you know so somebody's out it's less problem to cover but I love what he's given us I'm just concerned that we're going to burn him out or somebody else in that office and I do understand that we still have a parttime person in our office um as well
do you have a floater we do Lisa Cordo yeah that's that's 15 hours 15 I want to say it's 15 15 is it dedicated to you or it's split it's it's split the 15th yeah across what well it's it's whoever's
kind of out and who needs so we we do have a couple of floater positions um but I think most of the time the floater was covering the town clerk's office but um we were able to secure uh a part-time position for that office that they were in need of definitely we did that so um
we do have a couple of floaters um that I think support Town Hall yep I can't tell if you're trying to change my thought or make me feel better I'm just saying I'm not changing your thought by any any means that
wasn't my intent it was just to say that um we I didn't want it to be a forgotten concept that we do have a part-timer too so I want to back up some of the stuff
that member D said it was very forward thinking and um making use of our own employees and creating succession planning and redundancy in tasks very important um
easy yes on the finance director accountant role um having a full-time person in the finance uh office is great um I just want to make sure that you know we've got everything enumerated and if we don't we put some language in
there saying and other duties uh assigned because that's how life works so just adding and the other duties but as far as that goes I I think that's buttoned up really pretty well on finance director the administrative
specialist um I would say you've got a lot of qualifications for this role um I don't know if they're all the right qualifications uh I'm a little bit worried at the accounting and finance portion that it might be over in someone else's job description as well so I just
want to make sure that we're being very cognizant of making sure the job descriptions are uh are lined up and we're not putting duplicate roles without having some explanation on that um I didn't
see grant writing versus Grant execution um on here I saw listing on grants but it's saying identifying them um files applications required documenting but is this person going to
be executing as well the grants or did I just miss that um what do you mean by executing so a lot of Grants have report reporting well not a lot of some grants have reporting requirements um so would we be keeping this person with the reporting requirements too yeah okay and
then um I love the project management piece um you didn't have anything about any project management certifications like a cpim or a PMP um that might be something for someone to go for as a like an educational thing because as uh
member Carboni stated we have so much coming up with the Route 79 project and and having the right people in the role and having them have the right skill sets for there is going to be important for you guys to stay organized and ready to go
um it is a lot and I don't think the title really belays the position um do I know what the title should be I I have some ideas but I don't know administrative Specialists really conveys all the
things that this person is doing when I'm thinking administrative um I'm really thinking someone that's waiting for tasks to do or has like clearly defined tasks instead of someone really owning some of the things in the role that are you know a little bit you know
up upper level so I I would say that it would be more of a and I know this isn't a popular one but an analyst like role where it's showing it's showing progression to someone if they want to put this on their resume at some point I don't know that they're going to want to
put administrative specialist if they're going to try you know for something else in the future I don't know if it conveys that program Specialist or project management specialty in private I'd say is a program manager yeah but I don't
know how that translates to yeah but it I I would think that this would not if someone was searching for more and more roles this is not a role that they would want to have on their resume for that fact and I want to attract they be
they'd be explaining what they do exactly they'd be like but that's not really what I do right I've had roles like that either but it's like head of this well what does that mean well actually I don't even work over in that area anymore they just didn't changed my title so I would like some more thought
into what that is and maybe go on the MMA website um they're really good resource for job descriptions and what people are doing um but I would say I would would Elevate the title of the because the tasks are really significant
and um and we are taking the the cost of this roll down significantly from where it was when it was the assistant to roll and what is it like a $122,000 savings if if we hit
Max on this role it would be 12,000 it's up you know and is it and is it more responsibility it I would say it is but unlike chair Carboni I thought the green communities
and MVP went over to planning no no it didn't no no okay um consider possibly resurrecting the town coordinator title
possible put a fork in it I kicked around about 10 different titles to be honest with you I mean management analyst is a big one administrative analyst that's what I was in middleb when I first started um a jack of all trades if I remember exactly
administrative coordinator another one um there's a there's a bunch yeah um I just don't want this position to be hug and held um the analyst part you always still could still call it an assistant to the Town Administrator if you really
we could could it gets confusing for people they're like but is that the assistant or the assistant to the assistant it reminds me of that episode of The Office yeah it needs some kind of distinct title I just but I don't know what it is either yep I know it ain't
this one though but I like the thought process but yeah find it because we yeah um my other comment for the board is um however we decide to do
this uh I think we should hire this person immediately um in order to start building continuity plans because we are losing all the expertise from from Tracy in that those years and having this role
and the other one that you haven't brought in front of us as soon as possible is is where we should be because they should be up and running well before Tracy leaves you know the one the one lady show she's been running
so and we do have the funds from Christina's position that we did not faill for the last you know it will be like four months so we should be able to get that planner might be open again yeah yeah yeah yeah we should be able to get those funds but it's within the
office so we don't have to do a budget transfer so we should be able to get those funds up and running so you can get that done sooner because because we are going to lose a tremendous amount of you know just operations knowledge when when Tracy leaves and I know she's going
to want to have some vacations before she goes when the nice weather comes too we are thinking of bringing that job description in a few weeks yeah we're going to look over it and bring it back but we were anticipating a transition period of a few weeks to a month course you were Y at least no of course you
were like I'm sure sooner rather than later though yeah my assumption as you and Tracy talked about okay is is August the last day of pay or the last day in the building like are you Cashing Out vacation using vacation at the end so you two figure
that out we haven't got that down in the details but something like yeah my my last day in the building is 12:30 August 5th 12:30 are you going to have the chain like Rita already have them not that we're counting no yes and then I'm using
personal time for the rest of that week yeah gotcha thank you Leah and Brena please it's been quiet on the side of the table so I just had a kind of a very specific item on the finance director
slown accountant um I know it says uh towards the bottom of page two um working on budgets and annual Town reports works with department heads on Capital requests and assist the Town Administrator in preparing the ual
5-year Capital Improvement plan um should we specify like um participating on the actual Capital expenditures Committee in your absence or something like that that would take a little pressure off of you
if you guys know what you're doing going forward and you don't have to go to that meeting because you've already done 20 that week then you know as long as um it's in here so no no one can say why isn't the Town Administrator going to that I mean I feel
like yeah we can certainly put that in he's already kind of doing that yeah um because he went to the school committee I think last week and OC the week before that so yeah that's definitely something yeah and I mean working on the capital Improvement plan doesn't specifically
mean you know not necessarily being one of the committee members just being aware being aware yeah and actually sitting with that group of five people um because that could be
helpful so you voting number on that I forget I don't know I don't think was that remember we had that whole it's in the by you have to be a a leville res Lille resident oh right yes y thank you
for the reminder and it was confusing because both Rita and I had been Lille residents so in the past it was fine okay um but as far as I think Andrew spent enough time here day and day out
um I think he had a good idea of what he needed a couple of months ago um so um I'm just glad to see some of this moving forward right now
Brena no comments no comment okay um so we can take action tonight um I think that there was um some good input for the uh Finance director accountant I I
think we're in support of that okay um I don't we could carry the vote through that to change that title and is it a change of title or is it a oh it's position and applying well cuz
it's an accountant right now Town accountant so it would be a change in title do we want to come back on the 31st with a recommendation but the problem with well even with that it still would fall under that town account
line in the budget cuz it has a slash yeah that's like the what most communities are doing mhm y yeah as long as the sum on the line is summed up fine we don't I I'm just making sure hr- wise
that we can just flip the title and make this happen it doesn't have to be like posted internally externally or anything like that I don't know those processes well enough I was anticipating this starting July 1st okay I know if that changes a little bit but cuz it's going to go through the budget cycle um it's
going to be transition I think with Mike so I want to kind of get it perfected before we start July first so that could be introduced into the budget and then yeah I see what you're saying okay um but we do need to work on the transition
for the office support through you were I forget if you were here when Frank changed to director of DPW how did that process work done sech find Place yep okay it was a it was a change of role not a new
role gotcha thank you yep and then we like oh yeah we got to change it to DPW instead of a highway department yes but first we did the rooll then we did the department to match okay all right so does anybody want to
make a motion uh make a motion to approve the finance director/ toown accountant position for $100,000 a year starting July 1st
2025 motion that was that the end of it I think so okay second motion a second is there any further discussion hearing none roll please bab and I Carboni i c
i okay congratulations Mr Al I assume he's on board with this you haven't showed him yes he just finding out surprise all right and then um come back on the 31st with
your correction final draft you're going to come back with both or just one just the uh administrative specialist position and not the administrative assistant to the select board it we we'll try but that's the budget day I present so got
it might be a tough one okay good call okay thank you all right agenda item number 14 I yeah that was 31 by the way was
funny but I can see where it gets backwards for me and then I thought it was me because I was looking at the clock no for me it was 13 that's right okay so uh we are required uh to approve and sign the April 7th 2025 um annual Town election warrant um
so we already voted the um the date we voted the um positions and we now have to vote to sign the warrant so I'll let to a motion to approve and sign the April 7th 2025
annual Town um warrant as presented so moved second Motion in a second any further discussion um ah there it is okay we definitely have the extra one Park commissioner for
okay and meet the candidates is the 24th is it I think I saw oh I I would have put that on my uh announcements forgot just sorry just came to mind looking at this where is it I read it briefly but
it didn't Senor Center okay okay yeah I'm surprised we didn't get a memo about it sh um it was planned for the 21st and there were a couple of scheduling issues so then I got moved to the 24th so okay
from 5: to 7: I believe right 7 I don't know what time but it is in the evening okay all right well we'll make sure it gets up on there I think it's 7 p.m. okay thank you all right any further
discussion hearing none roll please baby carbon ey agenda item number 15 um we have in front of us a public way license application for the Mullen Hill Christian academy uh 5K Mother's Day run
um looking for uh May 3rd 2025 they have submitted their application looks like it's been um completed uh their payment has been
received and it's been signed off by our DPW inspectional Services police and fire um this is the same looks like the same route that it's been the last couple
years so I will entertain a motion um to approve the public we license application from Mullen Hill Christian Academy 5K Mother's Day run on Monday I mean on May 3rd 2025 so move second quick discussion
motion is second discussion I'm just going to repeat the same thing I say every year please can we get a map that's legible it's just a yellow line okay okay M I request them to provide a better map so I can send over to the
board this map is good for this year okay but next year we would like a better M I will I will put that in the letter that I said okay all right roll please baby and I talk you I Bon I can do that
say agenda item number 16 um we have a request from the Conservation Commission to appoint William oranos um as a member um there's a letter of interest from William um to be appointed to the commission and there's a memo from the
Conservation Commission requesting the appointment this is filling a three-year term um that expires July 31st 2025 [Music] this is it an unexpired threeyear term
term Madam chair it was um somebody had resigned their term expired July 31st 2025 conservation members of three member threeyear terms correct so the board has the ability to either vote him
in until July 31st 2025 or to vote him in until July 31st 2028 gotcha thank you these so we we vote the appointments every year anyways right right every year there is at least one member of the
Conservation Commission that is up for Renewal and that's a three-year term they're not one year terms right so what I would suggest um that it fills this term and then starts
fresh like to make a motion please um to approve the request for William ofos as a member to the Conservation Commission uh term expiring July 31st
2025 second motion to Second discussion hearing none roll please baby and IUI carvon I all right and then um well Mr AOS might decide um that he doesn't want to be here for the next
three so um but I want to keep it in terms with what we have so far so excellent agenda item number 17 um so discuss some possible vote on the charge for the economic development committee um Andrew take it away please so uh
thank you so I would say two or three times a week There's always like a call all about Economic Development related um activity I would say I'm always kind of tap dancing around getting myself in trouble of what I can say or not um people say where can I move where can I
go in town where I'm I'm leaving my warehouse where well else can who else can I contact or like a development call it always kind of seems like I'm giving out advice or telling people stuff that I probably I'm not saying I shouldn't say but it's just I feel like I might get
myself saying stuff that maybe not wouldn't the whole board would might not agree with let's say um and in the TA act it really just says I coordinate activities amongst the boards wait longterm Municipal planning Economic
Development it's a third term in there um so my thought was to resurrect the economic development committee which I don't think has met since 2017 you haven't and I thought since we're facing uh like I said Dark
Times Financial stop saying we need new growth we need business in town I think where it's where where it need where it should be I should say um and I thought this committee would kind of guide that
process and I thought to make the charge explicit and this committee could designate Town officials to handle or help out with economic development efforts uh like I've said I in this even in this meeting I'm applying to
community one stop for an economic development strategy and um I know some of some bit about Economic Development activity but not a whole lot I'm not a business owner um so it's probably the first thing they ask you like what is it
what's the charge of your Economic Development um yeah exactly and so I think they'll be able to drive that process they'll be able to say like what what what are you looking for out of this uh the strategy and I think um this
committee would do a lot of benefit to the town to be back and and meeting so I was hoping to change the charge just slightly um obviously hasn't met since the selectman has changed to the select board um but yeah that's the kind of the
whole rundown obviously the terms have expired for everybody on the committee year every year um so obviously that'll have to be something we advertise to see who wants to be on
it so I know that there's some really active uh Economic Development committees and some other um communities that um have really done some amazing things um we've got you going on in Taunton I know you
know comparing apples to oranges here but Taunton really um does a really good job um of attracting and and trying to help um you know the businesses you know coming into town so um Attleboro is another one
Mansfield they're really really strong we need to to do this so we do yeah we need to Y um I mean I just had a couple of quick conversations with Nancy dery I mean when was the last time we even looked at what buildings are full
in the industrial park right and that was something that we had said that was you had said something in and I and I I think everyone had agreed that we should be reaching out to everyone finding empty spots and facilitating it I know
other towns like Fair Haven has they they push it out there on their websites all the time and you know and they encourage like job fairs uh and you know whenever anyone has any hiring events in town um they're putting it on their website to get more reach and stuff like
that it's it's such actually a committee that I would love to be on but we do have an election coming up so I don't know if we can approve the committee wait to put it on or um to see um what happens you could always be a an a
member at large as well true that wouldn't be dependent on it right well a select if there's well if it has to be an open meeting like you wouldn't be a a represent of the select board and it's not a
majority I think we've shied away from doing that though yeah have we casual how often is the policy committee met um times so plus I mean we do have you know
potentially um one new person or two new people so I feel like I want to wait on it but yeah um approve the charge though we can approve the charge for not right CU we'd have to fill it July 1st I was just going to ask I I'm not I could be S
either way but just for question I mean is there any benefit to having these be like two-year terms and we stagger them because it looks like it would be what six members five that was kind of my my thought like is this one where somebody being around having knowledge is helpful
I think so I think that's a really good point I mean what does any do you know R why do you no when we when this was formed it was just okay we put that out there and then one thing that we do as a community with our appointed position is we just assume that the people want to
be appointed and we just roll it over which is a bad which is a bad practice because I really think that plus I still think there's something to be said for attendance folks Y and that was Trac used to keep the that was reviewed by the select board they would ask um you
know for a attendance so can we change the charge to have a rolling you know 3 two one yeah well is it is it five members I'm sorry I can't count I think it's five members two associate associate
members oh okay that's what came in right so maybe we just say seven members five regular members and two associate members just leave it at one year you know you guys haven't met since 2017 let's keep it low pressure but I you know I mean not for
this conversation but I I think that people that are you know that are appointed there should be a form that we have not to loow down paperwork but letter of interest because what happens is we appoint these people and then they don't show up and then they don't show
up to be sworn in or they send their letter of resignation and then we're back to with the open vacancy so did I do something funny like I said oh it's just maybe it came out we lived it yeah so um I think
we ations I think we can vote the charge um keep it at at the year and we could always revisit ran and rotate through and number eight on the last page is new
correct is that new yeah it's new okay which totally makes sense so are we going to decide who That official is now or is that TBD like I would say it's TBD because it's going to be I assume me but
also I was I was thinking it would be the the town accountant Finance director yeah it could be it's going to be a number of people so what's the question I gu guess we can look at it this way I'm sorry I apologize I thought number eight was more like depending on what
they were working on they might reach out to so and so so and so yeah like if it's an office medical office building of course we want someone from the Board of Health let's say or if it's a restaurants or we want the Board of Health again you know and I was looking
at it like who's going to post our minutes who's going to um execute all this great stuff so I think uh that could be a decision of the Town Administrator right because we have um
we have a pool of um candidates that actually do uh record minutes and plus we're looking it through it uh for AI minute taking Civic minutes yeah it's the best one all right so I'll entertain a motion to approve the economic
development um updated charge as presented so move second motion of second discussion roll baby I joh carbon I all right and so we'll appoint um with
the next round of Y so we'll have to put out a letter of interest or request that we are going to resurrect this this year yay all right where are we
15 18 18 M CH are we going to bring this back after the election at our first meeting for appointments yes well not the first meeting after the election because we're going right into budget
meetings the 14th I in yes okay yeah so we'll do all the the subcommittee and Le on voting and all of that so um 18 discuss impossible vote to accept the resignation um letter from
Eric Anderson from the zoning board of appeals so we do have a letter here um and this does it say when it an effect
until is it immediate I think it's immediate right did I miss something did they go to Li yet it's usually immediate if they don't put a date in it okay all right well I'll entertain a motion um to accept the letter of
resignation from Eric Anderson from the Zoning Board of Appeals second Motion in a second discussion I'd like to send a letter just of thanks um for participation how you've been on the
c 3 years years I don't know it's always hard when you see people with experience yep leaving okay roll please baby and i t i carbon I I I have a question chair for Tracy Tracy
do we have a list of people interested um that we didn't use before for for zoning no okay I think they're like years old and I don't even know where they are so we'll just go back out [Applause]
again all right number agenda item number 19 um resignation letter uh from Walter Healey from the cable uh TV advisor um committee and Walter's been with us for
quite some time um and it's effective immediately so um wal's been he's been a mentor of mine when I was in the school committee back in 2000 so Walter has uh served the community
for a very very very long time M so I will reluctantly um entertain a motion to accept the resignation letter from Walter Healey from the cable TV advisory committee so moved second with discussion yes
question for Tracy if I may I see four members on the web page is that a full compliment for that committee an even number five no it's five okay so all right so there's two open they're barely at Quorum then now not that there's
any meetings coming but it might be nice if our if we somehow represented like empty seats also because I wouldn't I would look at this and think it's full I don't know what the best way to do that is but on the web yeah so as people
resign like empty position empty position something just leave the the spot but just say vacant position yeah okay and a letter as well to
Walter all right uh R bab Johnny he I carbon ey okay agenda item number 20 these are our subcommittee and select for delegate updates um policy subcommittee um we have two draft policies uh that were submitted at the
last meeting and did everybody have a chance to review is this chat GPT that did this maybe I knew it from how it breaks it up yeah know I had it and then I'm like oo
let me get fancy with it and then it had a bunch of ones next to it I'm like Jesus well and I use perplexity not chat TP T high highend as long as it's not deep
[Laughter] seek okay so what is this um no it's hard to break them they're mixed together kind of I was just going to note that we see policies come in in a certain
format not a runon sentence judgy think of all Civic classes going for they are awesome actually listen number five treat all members of the public and fellow officials with respect
amen thank you so we're approving this checking it over what checking it over this is the second reading and then the third one the uh let let's just replace the safe links with the real the real
URL um did this mimic mostly the other um values the other department it's the other one and it just went through looked it looked good on my email not so much when it came
through does anyone have any specific objections to any of the lines so like down in shoot I lost it what was it uh number four avoid using the position for personal gain I mean that's that's duplicate of of the conflict of interest
law no conflict of interest flows monetary gain I guess I I think that's way too subjective though avoid using the position for personal gain because no accepting Bruins tickets
yeah but I don't think we can you guys get offered Bruins tickets I haven't gotten offered anything okay so um so the problem with that is someone can file a disclosure in the clerk's office and continue to conduct their business
even if that means they're selling services and so that is personal gain so and you can't tell someone how about undisclosed personal gain I still think
that's way too subjective and we're supposed to have like ethics ethics is supposed to cover some of this stuff so and then like um it's probably just in the wording like the other interaction with
officials and staff number three support board decisions once they're made even if the individual member disagrees like can I not vote against it at town meeting or is it I mean you don't want somebody to be like so a lot of these come from like the MMA documents um when it's talking about conduct for select
board members and one of the points specifically were like sometimes select board members continue to debate after the fact after the vote um and it becomes you know ongoing and contentious they bring it up every time and and
stuff like that so not respecting the vote right but I didn't support that well that wasn't something I supported every time I think you're I think you're limiting people's like ability to express themselves and um I think you're
also butting up on Free Speech honestly I I mean I could say it a million times Well I didn't vote for that I mean so when the MMA says it I would question the MMA I I think there's a difference between us saying I didn't support that
or I had different thoughts so I didn't vote that way versus like coming to a meeting and being like I make a motion to bring up something we've already voted on like I think that that I agree like why would you bring something back again and again and the chair has control to actually stop that type of
conversation I mean the problem if if it gets to the point where any board member won't honor the chair's request then that's that's a much bigger problem but
um I and I mean refrain from interfering with the administrative functions of the town or the professional duties of town staff I I mean I think these are all way too um what's the punishment if someone
does that centure really I mean to me these are like antagonistic almost I don't know I've seen a lot of overlap where select board members have gone and given specific direction to
department heads different than Direction like that shouldn't go on in the last year here no there you go so why do we need a rule but we're not talking about this board this time we're talking about ways to make sure there is
a separation and there's appropriate behavior and and I I will say I I've seen boards not just this one where there's tons of inappropriate behavior and it usually centers around the Town Administrator role not the town administrators
themselves just over breach between the select board and town administrators where the select board is acting on their own independently so in this particular case
let's take Lakeville for example we went from having one type of Town Administrator to now trying to give the Town Administrator the more you know ability to do their job that's a transition we can't make rule just because we were in
a transition spot I'd like to think that we see how it goes and I I number one I feel like you're um really infringing on someone's First Amendment rights so I can't
like say to Andrew something like I don't know if you should be doing that I I mean to me it's I think you're arguing a straw man on that that's not obviously what this is for well I you know I think you're trying to make a
policy for some experiences in the past and I just don't I don't think it's necessary line up with other communities that have done it as well well I mean I what about our what about your own desire to be on a board and express your
own opinions you're why are you on a board if you're limiting what you can actually do or say I don't think it's about say if I can I'm interjecting but this is this is for everybody all boards committees and commissions right even the appointed boards that we appoint
right y so so there is also an appointed a handbook that we have how does this line up with that handbook right because there should be a certain um Behavior I guess amongst boards committees and commissions in Lakeville right I think
that we have we like I said we already have that code of conduct that covers all of these things um I think all this ISE of conduct was for employees was it not not it was supposed to be for the entire
town the one that the department heads standards is that what we're talking no the one that the that all the department heads created right that's not for boards and committees that's for employees it was supposed to be for the entire town of Lakeville that's what we
were told and it was that one page with bullet so yeah um so I just feel like um I I feel like I feel like you're trying to
limit the Selectmen and what they can and can't do and I don't know who's going to you know what every single person sitting on this board maybe not Brena but every single one of the four of us
have crossed every single one of these lines at some point so okay um huh I've never talked about privilege information in executive session outside of exe well not that one I'm talking about the ones that we've
been discussing so the um the where were we here that was an accusation which one was the last one that we were talking about interfering with admin administrative ch of command oh literally never asked the TA
to do something so we are going to bring this back for third I but I do I appreciate like your your honest feedback I I have no I have never walked into a department head's office and said this is what we're going to do
okay and I and I don't think anyone should but I'm hard pressed to put a rule out there that says you can't and like you said what's the punish punishment censure now you're just handicapping the board too um that could be Recall now
depending on howad right you have a recall now there's always been a recall at The Ballot Box but now you have a recall so maybe people like strong Selectmen why are you limiting I don't find any of these characteristics of anyone breaking these to be strong
Selectmen I make decisions based on the merits of each issue considering all available facts and public input I was screaming for 6 months saying I wasn't getting enough information a few of you were saying you were getting information but
then you weren't properly prepared to approve minutes so clearly you didn't have information so this I just completely blew that out of the water what is all available fact and public input we could get a piece of information I could get a piece of
information walking in the room that the rest of you don't have does that mean that decision isn't valid I just think this stuff is so subjective that you are trying to rule how the board can can think and you
can't oh I think you're trying to B the hands of the Selectmen select board members and I don't necessarily think that's what the residents want either I I know they don't want to see us bickering and
fighting but I think if someone who voted me in feels as though I think Andrew is having a bad day and I happen to cross an administrative line I don't think they want to see me out I think they want me to be checking in on the Town Administrator and making
suggestions and and and um I just think this is a way to bind to yeah basically take away what being a select board member is all about and I don't agree with a lot of the stuff the icma hands out or you
know some of the MMA stuff I think it's far too um hurting the position of elected folks why are we doing this if we're not even free to speak our mind basically I don't know that any of these things say not
free to speak your mind yeah I see it differently and right there is the problem the interpretation so you have three people on a board that see it one way your way and two people that see it my way it doesn't mean any of us are wrong or
right it just means that we don't see eye to eye sometimes that's the best way to get work done when you have differences of opin I I think you're trying to control what the select board members can and can't
do and only the things they're not allowed to do we have ethics that cover that but there to I think it was member day's point to what ends I mean to what ends so you censure someone
so you take away all their power so they just sit on the board how is that representing constituent ENT is a a Ved a rebuke of something somebody did if we're referring back to like what the school committee did that was too
different they censured and then went be and Beyond and removed somebody's positions C usually just C is usually just like I don't like what you said it's now it's official yeah like this was inappropriate okay but they They carried it one step further who's to say this board isn't going to do the same
and now you are taking away you know someone who was elected the freedom of the board to do that centure then if you want to extrapolate on that I'm but then you'd be crelling the the the board to your
point I just don't see that okay these are far too subjective so um and in fact um I went through every
legal bill since last April and I think we don't even need this whole utilization of Town Council I mean it would be nice to have a guideline but to actually vote in a policy I think that's um
wrong I went through and checked out every legal bill do you know how infrequently the select board members actually have reached out to Town Council why are we making a policy for a problem that doesn't exist well
it doesn't exist for you is is what you're saying you don't think a problem exists so with for me and the impetus behind this is a bunch of reasons so if I may um when we have one member reach
out to uh to to them and then we there's no record of what was asked what was the result and then one member has that information and the other members don't that's a bad thing it's a bad thing for but like I just said it happened I went
through every single legal bill it happened so infrequently the most access to the lawyers by any select board member was exactly what I said the last time we talked about this was the chair and typically it was the chair with the Town
Administrator that they call they find out is this appropriate for an agenda is this not appropriate what is the legality of this what is you know someone needs to make some of those decisions and that you know why are we
why aren't these a suggestion why are they a policy is my point well prior to 2019 almost everything went through the Town Administrator and then select boards just started reaching out and
bills kept piling in for select board members reaching out I mean that's not necessarily a good time frame because there was no rulebook for Co right I I don't know that that's you guys are trying to make a policy just because of some bad experiences but
these should be suggestions they shouldn't be policies I I they should be suggestions appreciate your input I have a question yes ma'am so if this policy was in place there was a
zoning board of appeals meeting um and afterwards I asked Amy Amy qule about a question about why they were allowed to push the 40b so much at learon and she basically explained the history of it and you know the phases
and all that um so this policy states that I would have been in violation for doing that and it should have been in writing no the response should be in writing so Amy qule at the time after you asked should give whatever she said
to you to Andrew so he can put it in the policy board so when you had questions like this in the future there was the ability to not have to go to Council in order to get some answers because we have stacks of legal opinions that we
could have in writing but we don't and it's like a it just it's gone did you ask her that question after the meeting or did you call her this is hypothetical but I'm saying I mean it was wrapping up she was right at the table then that's that's it's still not charging I
disagree she still reached out on her own to talk to the lawyer why shouldn't she she's a select board member why shouldn't we all know if there's something we should know but now now this suggestion would be that Amy should go home and Bill us for her time to
write that and it's email it in well is it going to get build then or is it going to get build the next time someone asks about it well I'm just saying like that would if if we want to do that it's going to drive the cost up as long as everybody's okay with that so so let's go back here okay so Brian I'm sorry I
have to use you that's all right so when Brian reached out to Town Council to discuss the Town Administrator search when without including me in which I reached out he didn't respond to email we tried Lacy and I tried okay but still
you guys did it without me as the chair so then I had to seek out and get the same exact information right I was upset about that and all y'all were like well you know he needed the information so it's okay when someone when one person
does it but not someone else but you're case for a policy then saying these are should be suggestions because you know what he had the opportunity with Lacy to get the information I wanted to be there I wasn't I got it in a different way wasn't a perfect scenario right but it's
hard it's hard when you don't know what the other person asks right exactly and that's why way back when when I loved the way Rita did it and I love the way Andrew does it they forward the question asked to legal counil and the answer
nothing is cut and pasted I don't understand why where you know most of the time I work through the Town Administrator I think all year long there were two times when I C called Town
Council on my own actually there it wasn't I worked through B for that zoning issue on Main Street I when I was the chair and we had to ask questions I would always ask the Town Administrator can you please
send a qu a response to everybody what happened why we reached out and what the resol question was what the resolution is you can't make a policy for that and you know what I don't care if you have these as policies I'm not going to stop from going and asking a question cuz I have
the opportunity just cuz there's a policy that's my point maren you're not going to do that either if you have a question you're going to ask the question and you may say you know can you send the answer to everybody you're not going to wait for her to give you an
answer no I I don't know that that was implied but if it is I should rewrite it because that's exactly what Brena just said but the the idea behind it is about the I don't understand you are so much about participa in your government and
being a part of you know your community but yet it's like you're trying to limit your own self to what you can and can't do I just don't understand that I never thought I would um I never thought you would come up with these suggestions well these policies I think they should
be suggestions but end of the conversation we've talked about it way too much I guess it'll be the end when I say It's The End huh no I'm just saying that I can keep going all night and I don't
think that it's beneficial at this point and we're not saying anything new um so we brought this at the last meeting this is the second reading on this um and we'll bring it back on the 31st for an official vote okay for adoption I had an
actual comment if that's okay thank you um oh on the uh sorry hold on where did chat GPT hide it um yeah no I honestly can't find it it was in the Town Council one how do we know if something is or is
not costly like I don't know if the question is comp I don't know if it's going to be like in the middle for complex or potentially costly issues thank you that area because I I certainly don't know if a question is
going to be a 30 second response or a 30 page dissertation mhm I don't have an answer but I just wasn't sure how to interpret that yeah I can see sometimes you ask a simple question like whoa didn't expect all that case law and everything else
they pulled out in my head I was thinking like 40D like like you know how how does this work for the 43d permitting like you know how is this whole thing working you know what's the legal opinion on it Etc something where someone would have to
opine significantly but to your point sometimes legal opin significantly I mean because they're opining I also think the Town Administrator designated staff shall maintain a log of all requests to and responses from Town
Council I mean the building department reach um Board of Health reaches out to Town Council planning reaches out to Town Council lots of people I think they should keep the as well I know but if you look at their bills that's a pretty
good summation I mean I don't I understand that comment that it's a pretty good summation you mean it tell when Town Council sends the bill it says who called what the conversation was about and how long it was yeah but that's not what the intent the intent is to get the decision down
so we don't have to reach out again so is it every board and committee and office or is it just select board business and where does select board business stop I mean like should the purpose be um townwide or just select board I was just
thinking select board because it was select board policy but I mean honestly why aren't we keeping all of these decisions why every 3 years when there's new members here we have to reinvent the wheel like we had a good book and You'
you it was tabbed out and that we would say oh what's the subject and then you'd read up on it and you'd be knowledgeable about the subject and I know the idea of having you know whomever type it out and and all of that but you'd be surprised
how many times people would come in the office and ask the same question maybe in a different way but they would be either able to not have to ask the question at all because it was answered or they would have a frame of reference to ask different questions which would
really get them to their next I like I like resources like that the other thing I would be curious on and it might be worrying over nothing is how often if ever do we run into a situation where the answer or opinion given at that time
is been superseded and we don't know it but we rely on what we have on the book everything is an opinion like you know how legal is where they're like oh well you know that was the opinion of that time right or like there was some new case law or the mgls change it's I don't
know do we get us into a circle where it's like I think this is the answer no well let's reach out my out again I don't think that came up very often I think people were able to use it as a reference and even if they ended up reaching out to council it wasn't as involved as it would have been had they
had to been educated from the beginning on you know why this is this way what laws cover it etc etc cuz to your point laws change they add new laws in every day um to you know constrain things or move things forward or or make sure um
things are working the way they're intended because the language was bad but without that knowledge we're we're all working from square one on a bunch of things and I just I just find that to be a really bad way to leverage information doesn't some of that come
with continuity of like staff in the office I mean we have been such in a transition place okay it's like crazy you're you're not wrong you're not wrong for uh for continuity but the problem is like if the staff doesn't
know about the opinion or they're not part of it or they haven't read it then continuity is not going to make a difference CU they haven't seen it I just and I know you think it's constraining and all that I just want to try to make things a little bit better
for people I know but I don't and I Hon honly honestly I don't think most of these make anything better I think they limit what select board members can do and not in a good way so you I guess you'd have to ask
your constituents do you want the do they want their representatives to have some freedom to use their own judgment or do they want people to be um tied their hands tied by policies so I'm not going to take advantage of
getting a quick answer from a lawyer just cuz they're standing there yeah I'm going to you know wait Madam chair in the interest of time maybe we you could bring this back later what back I don't even yeah I I mean you
know it can be a majority vote at that time but I don't how are we doing with our um current policies um so uh I was very ill again so not happy
about that um but maren and I do have to get together and I do have three like red line copies to submit that's up to you guys if you want to put them on the 31st um or we just wait at this point
and Fridays are good for me if you have something we can yeah hash over yep okay um so um what I really wanted to do was print out all the policies and put them in a binder but I know I don't know Brian if you want it that way or if you
just want all the policies and then there is a policy too that even kind of snuck up on me like a building use policy that involves two buildings only in town that the select board has jurisdiction over allowing the use of
and my question is why doesn't it include all the rest of them so know had one yeah I didn't even know I honestly I don't ever recall seeing that one so I thought you were going to say that
the school committee cuz I no no these not school buildings I'm talking about so okay yeah so I know I I mean that's like one policy that I didn't even realize is going to need a whole lot of work just unto itself and that one may
have to be something that you know know Marin and I have to reach out to staff for can you bring two on the 31st just pick two yeah and we can say yep so right now I have um is it the Earth removal one no no no so right now um I
have the um a red line version of the ambulance billing policy which I know Andrew has been working with with the chief right you guys have been working so that one's kind of timely the chief did that um Chief Perkins I believe has the Constable one and then um Lacy has
the quy which a lot of the stuff in the querry has been absorbed by like human resources and then there's one other uh I can't remember what the other one is but that's sort of been absorbed by human resources too so so maybe there's four sometime Friday if you if you're
available I won't be here you won't Thursday May the Friday Saturday no I'm leaving Thursday first thing I won't be back till Monday um but we can do it that following Friday okay yeah cuz it's all ready to
go and I just want you to read through and make your questions and we can get answers from staff on them if you have them and then go through the rest of them Marin and I'll print the book out for you I'll put it all in the binder and that way we can pick out which other
ones okay because I know there's more that exist that we probably don't even have anywhere yeah yep yep yeah and some of them are again just again totally subjective like the weather we could probably bring that one up who's going
to call the weather is it the chair is it the Town Administrator it's just let's make a decision administrator let's just make a decision here you know it always been that way do we want to change it if we want to change it how do we want to change it PL it's pretty
that one's pretty easy it's actually Franklin we could probably it is I know it's just Frank like if anyone's knowing what the weather's doing and and what the conditions are it's Mr plow it's well I I mean I I you know I beg to differ Lorraine and I live on Main drags
if there's no plows going by our houses there's no one going to work that day but that's probably not always going to be the case so all right good so bring um so yeah bring the four no and you know what we'll send them out I'll have Andrew
send them out okay after maren and I finish them okay perfect okay quick update on the fire station building committee we did meet last Wednesday um huge project of the uh pre-qualification um so I've learned a
lot because I've not been part of that type of a process before but um it is gear it's earmarked to be able to go go out on May 26 I believe was the date that they said so they have to
pre-qualify all the contractors and the the amount of the project yeah it's going out 10 million I think it's going out on Wednesday it would be due back April then good to go in May and they have all the record keeping they're doing for that oh yeah and because that
was one of the things for the audit for the police station building it was some missing yeah I have similar question um because are we supposed to keep all the procurement documents here too in town
hall or is just the wasn't that what happened with the fire with the police station building all of the documents for the next audit and we were missing a small Chunk we found some stuff hiding up in in um in accounting and something
yeah was in the accounting office this one this one they're doing all digital so it's going to be easier to that is much easier nice yeah what is CDS says CDs and construction
Administration construction DS got it thank you oh okay I was like what they're not making us a playlist mixtape no so um what's in front of us U because now that the project has been approved
to to move forward this is phase three which is the construction um and the execution of the the project so uh they called it a change order and I kind of just said it's not really a
change order cont it's extension of the contract so through um we need to vote the uh fire station building committee voted uh to recommend approval to the select board so there's two here um one is for
the sosio associates um in where is it make sure I'm on the right one uh for the total contract for um 1, 185359 and then there's one for pommer
associates and I I read this the other night too which one did I read wrong so the contract price change would be $67,800 I'm confused so I don't have anything from Pomroy unless I'm missing it no the new
contract price including the change order which you've already approved some of it getting to this place and then this is the the difference the first one that says change order form not this and kept scrolling sorry right so because it's
phase three I remember with phase two there was that whole thing about it it went up to 500,000 but that was already planned um do we ever find that $70,000 by is that so anyway so this is similar
to that or this is different this is an unexpected increase or this is expected and just it was it would be expected if upon the approval of the project going to the next phase so the Contra so the contract going from roughly
94,000 to 76 ,000 was anticipated in the in the money mhm yes oh yes and then in the second one the 1, 85,000 cuz I don't see the 21.4 moving so it's just the number has been filled in that is correct okay thank you that
number will not change thank you br those are my questions to Y so that's the total let's hope let's hope it changes bit based on bids coming in but the total no I mean not right it won't go the ceiling won't change right the ceiling won't change
but we heard we I don't want to jinx it so I don't want to say anything don't don't okay don't do Ito manag that number exceptionally well so scare me I won't say it all but there
was maybe you can go back and watch the fire station building committee because there was some I I did have one question if I may on the the sosio one the number doesn't bother me it just says um oh where's the language I already missed
it or is it the Pomo one the fee is lump suum will be build on a percent completed basis like who's determining percent completed where are you looking uh the change order form that was on March 3rd
it's so it's the one that's from paloy from with Taylor McDonald's signature doesn't the contract spell it out like very specifically what considers what is considered whatever design build you know why I remember that
because that's how the contract was for the windows and doors and it said at this phase it's considered this and then at this phas it's you weren't front paying them they had to hit Milestones basically for us to yeah I think it was spelled out inest contract usually very
specific to get those will come to the fire station building committee U for approval and trust me when I tell you they will be they reviewed do you have the whole committee reviewing them or did you assign a bill the whole committee um
approves and we have um three people sign okay but the committee it's it's voted all right it it is an option for you though if you want to to have a signing committee
right and as the project progresses as cuz there's just more and more cuz right now there really wasn't many getting the whole group together is going to be challenging as we get through there yeah so that's why we designated
the the three so all right so entertain the Motions uh Tracy's look at her eyebrows up so I'll entertain a motion um to approve
the um would say contract extension um prom proom you can tell I'm getting tired Pomroy Associates um in the amount of [Applause] $67,800 n roll please D and I Johnny I
carbon I thank you and then sosio in the amount of 1, 85,3 159 so moved second discussion roll baby and IUI carbon
I is that a contract extension or exchange order same thing okay thank I meant to say same thing as their first motion contract extension yeah I hate the language they're using it's like it's not an increase
yeah it's weird yeah it is weird Okay Old Colony how we doing uh no updates on my side their last meeting was the 19th which I was not able to attend um I haven't had a chance to sync up with the superintendent since getting back from my time [Music]
away but we do know that Andrew and the town clerk are going to the yep I'm super curious about how that all works where you going Old Colony there's like a breakfast tomorrow for like enoy they got good food enjoy talk about yeah
remember he said to talk about the election how that's all going to get done right yeah I don't think they decided how they're going to do it one day or the town meeting route I think they they were talking like April or May they'd make that decision okay and they're I remember they have to pay for
it if they do that we don't want to the ele yes not a town meeting correct which is like come on yeah yeah 10,000 bucks which by the way uh the impact Financial impact from Rhino did not have Old Colony in the there it did not have
Bristol agie Nori Aggie so no homework okay uh it um no updates there was no meeting last month we kind of said we' meet every third Tuesday if there was business to discuss that would be next
Tuesday however I believe I'm at the Regional Finance subcommittee meeting at the schools I don't know if there will be a meeting okay did you um have a pretty good compliment of the committee when you met the first meeting uh all but one memb is yes yep wow yep
um do you have to take minutes for that is it like an official yep okay yeah all right and how we doing with our community um Outreach um I'll have those materials
for the next meeting and I will present them sweet and Citizens Academy I have nothing to report on that at this time we still they rescheduled but I forgot
to look at the date sometime in April I think yeah 16th maybe uh um I just think that that particular um session will have some really good information and what's working what's
not working like I said the panel that was involved is pretty um well versed where was that Newberry Port what was the panel Malden what um Danver and there two
others and I can't remember on top of my head okay is there any other new business coming before the board I have new business I happen to be riding through I don't know if it was Dam or Milton or wherever today and I saw they have a
sign up on a sign that says Purple Heart Community yep so I did a little research whatever I mean if the board if you don't know about it it's like um the town has to accept being a Purple Heart m status community and then we can get a
sign so we can cuz we definitely have purple heart recipients so um so if the board is so inclined maybe Andrew and the veterans agent can do some work on that I think that would be wonderful did
you this is sounding so familiar I think you're thinking of the flags right no no no it's definitely this I thought I think it was before I started but I think Christine asked asked about it and they were waiting on some sort of State just recently so I'm
going to have to go back in my memory banks but yes yeah I saw that today and I'm like o wouldn't that be nice to have coming in and on Lake though to see that that's definitely oh we can put it right above or beneath our right to farm sign they ever show up I was just going to
say hopefully it won't take two years to get us I think they picked one make a purle I think it's and we have the I think we have to have the funding for it it's just matter you've already got a sign this year you'll get one in um I actually had one item for new business
kind of going along with what Leah had I would like a veterans parking in front of our town hall I think it's I think we we talked about it one time and it was 2020 and nothing you know nothing was going
forward but I would love to see uh veterans parking spot I'm not even sure there's an exact uh the handicap handicap spot it's a buck with a sign and the bucket has migrated over into the middle of the the bucket doesn't
necessarily I don't know that it necessarily says handicap parking do you know it is it's a handicap thing but it's not next to a space any longer someone has moved it and it's not to the right in the space it's very weird but yeah we should probably we're supposed
to have the handicap we really should and I'd love to have a veterans along with it if we're going to do one the right way we should do two and I believe Our Town Administrator is our um ordinator coordinator yeah but the
veterans agent may be involved should we put them at the COA where the veterans agent is action item additional we can have more than one what's additional Taunton had a really cool um space in front of their city hall and they had like a almost like a neural
like paint with like a veteran a flag it was pretty cool it had like a sign that said reserve for veterans maybe we can have a contest someone like to design that yeah pretty cool I'll find how they pools where is that sign yeah take it tell what was your
idea all right does anybody have any old business just the right to farm signs every time I leave the meeting I'm like oh I got to look that up Andrew oh Tracy that's an action will you like nudge me tomorrow what you want me to check on the status of the no no
just nudge me tomorrow about the right to farm sign can I nudge her for you she's like a Tracy Tracy gentles she nudges gently so all right our next
meetings uh just for the record March 31st April 14th um at 545 here at the uh police station the budget meetings are scheduled for um Wednesday April 9th Thursday April 10th and Tuesday April
15th and those times will be determined so all right um I will entertain a motion to adjourn at 9:36 p.m. so move third okay um just roll thank you Johnny
who I