[Music] Good evening and welcome to the Monday, June 23rd, 2025 select board and waging personnel board meeting. Is anyone else c uh recording this meeting besides Lake Cam?
No. All right, call to order. Lucky here. Candido here, Garboni here, Punt here. Thank you everyone. Um, we're going to skip the Pledge of Allegiance as there's no flag in this room again. So, uh, we're going to move right on to the presentation from the Massachusetts
Bay Transportation Authority, the MBTA representatives regarding property located at 125 Commercial Drive. We'll start out with you gentlemen introducing yourself. Hi. Uh, my name is Tom Cox. I work for a company called Greystone. We provide real estate services to the MBTA. And
I'm Scott Bosworth. I'm the chief development officer for Mass and MBTA. Um, and the the person responsible for looking for opportunities to partner with host communities to try and meet their needs as well as the Commonwealth's needs as far as housing, economic development, and the like. So,
thank you for having us. I represent a fairly large team. We've got about 30 people that work on projects throughout the state. Um and uh we're excited to start our conversation with Andrew a few months back and uh we're glad to be here. Thank you very much. Um I I know
we all have questions but I think we'd like to see your presentation and then have the questions after. We'll have that. Yeah, sure. I don't know if we So um we are hoping for a conversation not a not a big presentation here. It's quite I hopefully clear what we're uh
what we're talking about. So, we uh and Tom and his team have spent some time looking at the facility of the former um well MBTA station here in Lakeville. Uh recognize that with the change in service there, there's an opportunity.
Uh we think that it's it's worthy of a conversation with you all to talk about what your goals and objectives are. We think it's a really nice site for something to happen there uh as opposed to sitting, you know, dormant. Um, so what we try and do working with
communities that we um that we provide service to and and and are located within their bounds, we try and create a dialogue, a conversation. We make no assumptions about what the community wants. We just we think it's a good opportunity work together. Andrew's been
terrific in making himself and others available to talk to us as we presented the idea. Um, as you can see from here, and hopefully everyone has one. Um, we've Tom and his team basically have come up with an area that we think would be a
legitimate a good size area that would not impact operations whatsoever. It would allow us to continue to have parking and free flow to the station. Uh, but it would it's large enough where something of, you know, value could happen there. and whether that's, you
know, commercial or housing or whatever. Um, we think it's worthy of a partnership in going forward and testing the market and determining if there's interest within the development community to to do, you know, something there. Um, our concept, our idea is to
work with you, why Andrew suggested we come talk to you, to talk to you guys about what you think you'd like to see down there. what would you know what does the community and other stakeholders think would be something value ad and then from there test the market with a request for
information not an RFP at this point just an RFI which would would be a test to see that what you want what we think is viable is it really and then together make a decision whether we go forward with an RFP or you know how we decide to
go forward um you know I think Andrew had mentioned there there's um some other housing developments in the area proposed and that maybe something else here might be good. Well, let's try it out. Let's see if there's that possibility. Let's see if there's developer interest. Um, so we're excited that this is kind of I I don't want to
say it's a kickoff because we've had some really good conversations, but I I really appreciate Andrew inviting us and you all inviting us to to be here. Uh, Tom, I don't know if you have anything else to add. You've been you've been working at this longer than I have. So, yeah. So, a couple of comments to make
about uh the surplus property and the retained area and the shared access. So the thought process we had had uh from past experience on other TODS on the MVTA's property is to keep the uh proposed area away from the active commuter rail line. So that's why you kind of see that unique uh shape uh
coming uh coming back away from the uh the uh active commuter rail lane uh rail, excuse me. We're also proposing to maintain 200 pocket spots there uh to support the um the K Flyer as well. So,
uh, you know, it's still a strong commitment by the TE to have an active station in the community. There's there's no, uh, changes to the, uh, pickup drop off area, no changes to the platforms, uh, and other than retaining the 200
parking spots. Uh, there are no changes to those areas as well. With regard to the uh, shared access drive, the thought process was to not necessarily have another curb cut on uh, on the street. So the thought process is to leverage uh the existing infrastructure that exists
out there already and that that that access driveway would be a shared access drive to the retained tape parking as well as the 5 acres uh that we're offering up for uh for potential development. Um so that's kind of the plan that we all see here uh in the
thought process that went into it. Happy to have you know more discussions about that or entertain alternatives. Uh but that's how we came up uh with with uh the present configuration keeping the proposed development away from the active commuter rail line retaining uh
200 parking spots for long-term use for the K Flyer or if uh additional rail was uh proposed restored in that direction and again limiting uh the the curve line impact than uh than what already exist exists out there today.
Okay. Um, so actually just introduce ourselves. Yeah. My name is Christopher Planka, Lake Select Board. Moren Candido, chair, Lakeville Secular Board. Marine Carboni, Lake Select Board. Paul from the
Lakeville Select Board. And you know, Andrew. Yeah. Obviously, Andrew Su, town administrator. Yeah. Um, so I'm going to open it up to the board first for questions and then I'll open up to the to the rest of the people in the room. I think we have plenty of time to address
everyone. Madam Chair, if I may, um, just a couple here. What is um, what are you looking at with regards to a timeline? um because you had mentioned that you know there might be some interest you know from the population where you know
this board will decide that we might you know want to hold a a public forum where you know people can come in and you know share their ideas. So that doesn't happen overnight but I'm curious in in your minds what was the timeline that you were thinking?
Well I won't say we we really don't have a hard and fast timeline. This is important to us. I mean, this our general manager of the government, lieutenant governor, they we feel very strongly about our our partnerships with our host community. So, we're here to to talk with Andrew and I did talk about having some sort of a figuring you all
would probably want some sort of a community event and we're open to doing that and we would not probably I don't see any scenario where we would, you know, go out and solicit interest before we did something. If that's of your interest, we would certainly be open to
that. We're always in a hurry like we you know our mission our you know our governor is uh really um really pushing us to create opportunities whether you know certainly housing but other opportunities uh and we're trying to meet that call but most importantly they
want us to you know respect the community and our host communities and make sure that we stay aligned with you all. Uh on so if you're interested in a a public session we are totally open. We we actually in another project like it we're planning one right now in in the
city of Glenn. Uh and we'd be happy to do it here. So there's no drop dead date on the project. Okay. That just you opened it up for my second question. What other similar areas um you know have you or are experiencing
and what are they looking to do in those particular because I think it's unique because we do have the MBTA. Uh I know for the cade flyer but just down the street we have you know our south coast rail right to Boston and in Fall River
and New Bedford. So it is a unique opportunity here. What are some of the other ideas that some of these other communities are utilizing for a space like this? We can handle this one jointly. I would
say in almost every scenario that I can think of right now, housing is is really um the number one issue, number one, you know, use. Uh part of that is because really it's a really tough market right now for commercial or lab or or or
industrial um because of the cost of construction and things whereas in in many cases the cost I mean the um you know four or five story stick built is still kind of penciling out people are finding ways to make those work. So we're seeing a lot of
interest there. However, you know, many of our locations are in, you know, in the city or in a city. So, we're, you know, some of those we're we're going slower, right? And and with a development partner, um taking our time
to to decide when the right time to go forward with the project, try and get it permitted, but maybe not move ahead with the actual construction till things get a little bit better, you know, construction costs come down. uh and and you know gauging the market a little bit
but by and large I would say almost every project I can think of for the company it's it's housing right now. Yeah, housing's a definitely a component or the majority component kind of of a lot of them or all of them. Um just to kind of pick out a couple and as Scott had noted uh a lot of them are in cities
uh but we also have some other uh suburban type of examples but in Quinsey uh well actually before we get to Quinzy let me say by by any location's success and what ultimately is going to be proposed there and have success there is by the
individual properties attributes. So what might work in one community may not uh work in another uh community because of its accessibility, because of its visibility, because of zoning, um uh because of sewer, because of water, you know, because you know, lots of other
development type of influences that will will happen there. Um, one location that's fairly similar to this, you know, and I won't start with Quinsey, I'll start with Newport is, um, New Rootwood is, uh, while it is a city and they do have like more of an urban downtown
area. The location, uh, that I'm thinking of is, uh, by the, uh, commuter rail station is there and we, the MVA, sold off a portion of the parking lot there, and it ultimately was or is housing. Um, they do have a a small little c coffee shop on the first floor,
but to be 100% honest with you, that space has been vacant uh since it was constructed a couple of years ago. So I I know there's a lot of planning concepts where you want uh you know uh residential with some commercial storefront, but the storefront really has to be in an area that has active and
or existing uh foot traffic or vehicular traffic that will see it and um and kind of benefit from it versus perhaps kind of a a location like this. And honestly that location that's up in Newport as well has had that vacancy. Um we have
had other uh locations like in Quinsey at the North Quinsey Redline station 660 residential units in a tag uh that was one that was very or is very successful but the attributes there is uh you know that they're they have a lot greater density than Lakeville has right a lot
more people per square mile a lot more uh people within a mile radius 5 mile radius etc um you know so every location is going to uh have uh success based upon it attributes to the community that it's in and and and how accessible it
is. So, I don't mean to avoid your question at all, but there's a lot there's a lot of influences that go into it. Sure, it's a great location, right? It's right off of 495. Um, you know, it it uh it does have great access from that perspective. Um, but if it wasn't
like a destination, just talking about one one asset type, a destination type retail, I don't know that a CVS or even a supermarket would work there. Yeah. Anything would be a destination in Lakeville. there's not a lot of people for to go to. Um Paul or Chris, do you have any questions? Yeah, thanks Madam
Chair. Um two questions. One, um I see some occasional speculation on Facebook that someday the team may be interested in running commuter line down to the Cape regular service and stuff like that. Now I I understand how the Middle Station's just up the road, but
is there could this potentially in as the team looking, you know, long range down road and saying, "Hey, if we want to run full community service down to the Cape someday, is the Middle Burrow station sufficient to handle that or
you get a little bit of pocket here? Obviously, I don't think Lakeville block would handle that considering we taken away most of it away. So is there any thought into that how that could impact future tea expansion down in the Cape or is the or you have you guys maybe thought about that middle lot can handle
that? I'm just curious if that has come up at all. I want to be sensitive here. Uh but the commuter rail service to the Cape is not a high priority for the MBTA. I'm not by no means is my world, you know, world.
I'm not and I'm not speaking on behalf of the tea there, uh, as an official statement, but it it's not something that the tea is is really pushing, right? And so, um, I think Tom and the team, you know, did an analysis and feel like between the two, should something
come forward, there there's ample parking, but, um, I I just don't see long-term service to the Cape. uh and now I say that uh technolog is changing and as batteries get better uh you know
there's that always that possibility what they call electric multiple units could be running is quiet and everything and so the future holds you know a lot of a lot of interesting opportunities um I still you know I just don't think it's going to be a priority
I guess our capital what's driving that question is Um this map here are these are the boundaries the land I don't you I don't have a you know property map in front of me are these the boundaries of the land that's owned by the T there's no you
know right there's no additional expansion allowed on that's the entire really what I'm asking that's the entire ownership of nothing more than that so my second question um in regards to housing things. So
before I ask that question, you the question was asked prior development has been you said mostly housing. Any examples of commercial development in the city of Boston? Yes. Okay. So let me ask another question. In the past
five or 10 years, how much tea land has been falling this category like I don't need it anymore. Let's redevelop it. Yeah. it. So, not a lot. I answer not a lot. And and one of
the reasons is it just hasn't been a priority of the team to to get into the transit oriented development world really. It you know I've been around um you know the MBTA associated with the MBTA since 1988. It's a railroad. Railroads like to keep
things not get rid of things right. So, you know, it has taken a change of culture for the MBTA and Massock to start to look at, do we really need these properties or is there an accent? Does this can we do something that would accent our service to bring people to to
ride the service? But also in some cases, if it can be done that the asset, I mean, whatever is being built could help defay costs or operation and maintenance or something. You know, for instance, Tom mentioned North Quinsey, the North Quinsey development. They they operate you know a parking lot for us.
They they they service it and things and some well actually do they we try in Ale and Cambridge we have our developer will eventually run our parking force take all responsibility for operation and maintenance. Um so um we are in you know
the last you know six years really stepping up and looking at the properties owned by mascot and MBTA and determining is there a higher better use. Um we've got you've seen them you know rest areas all over you know what is that the no one uses rest areas
anymore right and if they are they're not it's for commercial truck parking and things could we be doing housing there we're looking at one in Newbury port right now big so we're looking at all of our property and deciding is there something you um you know that we in our in our host community can do to
help meet your goals and the state's goals and certainly transportation goals if possible. Thank you. I'm going to go to Paul real quick. You got to follow up real quick. Is Is this the largest possible date that's being developed potentially
being developed? I don't think so. I mean, no. No, the target is probably the largest. Yeah. Yeah. The the the one in in North Queensland is coming to conclusion. That was 8 and a half acres. Um there's other locations in the city of Boston, believe it or not, that are uh 5 acres. Yeah.
New Riverside. Riverside is 20 plus acres swap rate. Uh Wellington is a lot bigger in in Memphis. Um yeah. So there's a lot of other projects that are in various stages of the pipeline that are a lot bigger in square footage, but but to say
there's a lot of other ones that are smaller as well. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, gentlemen, I appreciate you coming down and opening up the dialogue with us. Um, we have, uh, as Madame Chair mentioned, had a lot
of people speak to us about an area in town that we need for a destination. We need something in town. Uh, the folks that I'm talking to are talking about, you know, a smaller type of grocery store, an Aldi or a Whole Foods. Uh, they're looking for sitdown restaurants.
Uh they're looking for maybe something uh a place for kids to go, like a kids amusement area, not necessarily a playground, but like an indoor facility. Uh right now, people are traveling uh to Fall River, New Bedford, uh and beyond
in order to get there. And I think that's kind of the push that I seem to hear from the people that I'm talking to. uh in in our conversation I it seems the tone seems to be leading towards housing for you folks, but I would I
would definitely like to uh have more discussion on something with commercial space and and and restaurants and things and maybe giving us some type of destination off the highway at that end of town. Sure. So, thank you. So, I
think that's the benefit of us being a public agency. our, you know, we can be a lot more patient than a private owner, right? A private owner wants to get something going, get it developed, make a profit, flip it, whatever. We can be very patient. Andrew, we've talked to Andrew a few times and we love the idea, you know, doing the community event, you
know, hearing from people, but then crafting a request for interest to test that to see would, you know, if if if we were to put this out for a request for proposal, could we could we learn some interest in doing something different? And it would all be in how we write that
how we write that request for interest and saying hey we are excited to to bring in X Y and Z you know could you know is this something you're interested in the ch what I think I mentioned it earlier but if we go out with an RFP you're stuck whatever you get you get and you got to move forward that's why
we think this this slower process where we really meet with the community talk through what they're looking for and then you know testing the market to see if we can pull it now it's incumbent upon us together to make sure that whatever we put gets out there, not just, you know, not just the local, you
know, just it has to get out there broadly. And with Tom's team, uh, representing us, we we can do that. We can get out to a very large group of people. We've we've been more and more successful attracting interest from out of state on some of our developments because of Tom and others that have
helped us. I think that's important because if you want something really unique, you might have to, you know, find someone who's doing something really unique in this kind of a setting somewhere else. But I hear you log and Andrew's mentioned that and I and again, we appreciate the opportunity and we
appreciate the the ability to sit down with you folks before something gets put in our lap, shall we say, to deal with. Yeah. And to follow up, um same conversations I'm having with constituents. Um, exactly zero people
have advocated for more housing. Most of the things that come before this board in the last couple years. Most of the big projects is housing, housing, housing. We've got a lot on the on the to-do list for housing. So, housing is not something that the people of Lakeville are actively
looking to their select board to add more to. Um and we do worry about additional burdens that the extra housing ends up creating as opposed to tax base which we are very light in. We are very residential community. Um we are very business light. We are very
industriallike commercial light. Um and um as uh member hunt said we don't have a lot of destination in town. Um we don't have places where someone can go do a bunch of things. pick up a bunch of errands, go to the supermarket, go do something
something where people can stay in town instead of taking all these dollars that are in town and moving them to Rainham and to Bridgewater and to and around um around the surrounding communities um to go get their restaurants and their and their groceries and all of those things.
So, um I'd love to do as you said and have those community events um and and have you guys hear kind of what the community is involved in uh in wanting to be as part of the growth of their town and how they see it growing. We are
a rural town like you said. A lot of your um stuff has been geared to cities um and and we are not that and we don't want to be that and we want to we want to u maintain the rural character of the town as much as possible but at the same time we want to grow the tax base so
that it's not completely a burden on all of the taxpayers. Does any of the board members have a couple more comments? Just another question for you. So how does this partnership work? So, well, it started when I I I called
Andrew. I happened to have met years ago, but um you know, yes, it starts with that and it starts with, you know, having these discussions and talking through um what our objectives are and what yours are and then coming forward with a plan, you know, strategizing and and coming up with a plan to to move
something forward, right? Uh um but I mean it's it's as simple as that, right? and we put out an RFP. We I would tend to think we wouldn't sell the property. It's we, you know, some of our board of directors like leases better. I think it's all the same when you're talking
about a 99 year lease. I But um we would continue to own the the fee on the property, but we would lease to a some sort of a developer who would build something, you know, that we all approved. So, and what would be the
expectation from the town in this partnership other than providing ideas? I think it would start with zoning. Okay. If if you know depending on what we decide together to go forward with, we we're going to need a change in zoning. Um, which I think you you have
one town meeting a year or two typically two. We can have what we need. So, uh, but that that would be it. I mean that's all we'd really be asking. I mean I'm sure there's local permits and things that we would need as well and you know building inspector and board of health
if you know if there's a food service you know general interaction with the town agencies. Okay. Any other questions? I'm going to open it up to the audience if everyone like to come up one by one. I I I know
there's a lot of hands but I'll get you go first. Madam Chair, I have I have four questions, but I I think they'll go quick. Um, you just half answered one. The land owner, how are you? Good.
Um, so what does that in what are the implications if it's going to be a lease owned by the state to the town tax rules? Would you do a separate pilot? How would that affect if there's going to be a development there of some sort? How
would the income tax how would the property taxes? So, so all private development would be subject to local zoning, local approvals, and local taxes. So, uh even though it's a lease on, uh MBTA's property, the developer doesn't enjoy the tax exempt status that
the MBTA enjoys. Perfect. Good. Um well, I think most people would like to see commercial in town. Unfortunately, that whole area I think was supposed to be commercial and just never fully took off, which is why we ended up with a bunch of more housing
there now. So, if it goes the housing route first, is it intended to match what's around that area? We're not going to get a high-rise or I mean, I know you say local zoning, but you don't always have to follow local zoning. So just would be
would be per our zoning bylaws for the housing that would more or less match what's already there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean go ahead. And we can um again here uh as a partnership here to cooperate uh and
receive feedback kind of from the town. Um, so as we put an RFP out and to the extent that we need uh local zoning, we wouldn't encourage uh something that wouldn't that wouldn't uh be acceptable by the town, right? So if if we were
talking just academically here for a moment, if we're talking about um allowing housing because other things allowance, somebody came in with a 15-story building like we knew the town wouldn't enjoy that or wouldn't want to see that. So we would, you know, create some uh parameters in uh the RFP
offering so that we don't end up both of us that is the TE and the town with something that we just aren't going to ultimately kind of agree on. So we can write the RFP to to make sure not make sure but to to to try uh to influence success through the through through the
process. Okay, good. Any idea how many units would be possible there for housing? No. Okay. Um, and then finally, just thinking outside the box. Again, love to see commercial there, but you may not
get a bid on commercial. I don't know. Just like you said, location may be tough people. So, if it is housing, could you entertain a transfer of development rights? That would either take the number of units you're putting there, multiply times 1
and a half, 1.6 acres or standard lot, etc., and then either give us land or give us the town a check that would then help us to go preserve
land that we don't want to see go to housing. In other words, can can we look at this as, okay, housing here maybe makes sense. More housing, like the chair said, more housing, you know, you're killing us here. But
I think town's people would feel a lot better if it goes housing and there was something we could preserve elsewhere in town that doesn't make sense for housing. either either by giving us credit towards 40B in a quicker manner so we could uh adjust projects as they
come or actual just transfer of development rights. Let's give you this amount to go by somewhere else to preserve. We're open to the discussion. Not familiar with ever doing that, but we certainly open to trying. I mean, if it's something that we hear is
important. I mean, because that could potentially be part of the RFP or something like that. That's that's what I want to mention early on to just think about. So to the extent that um the town's uh underlying bylaws don't allow something like that um I'm not sure how
you put it in place but I mean to the extent that again through our process we and I don't know I know this your zoning bylaw a little bit with the setbacks and etc. I know that this is uh zone industrial etc. But to the extent that there's a transfer of right that already
exists or one that can be written and applied here you know that would be really interesting you know but it all it also comes down to like septic right you know and water availability um because uh I don't think you could build a a septic system here
title 5 I think you'd ultimately need to do like a package treatment plant with some greater density there but love the idea you know we Scott and I did something like that a long time ago uh outside of the MBTA that is when we were both living in the town of Hang Ingram where um we uh we worked with the
developer where he preserved a um uh the last working file on Main Street in Hangingham and then we traded a piece of land uh that he added to his golf course. It was a really creative took time but it was worth time. So, but and I think you know because again we all
hear you know how many more houses can we have but if we're able to preserve so that housing doesn't go here plus you know it's a here plus elsewhere that's I think would be very helpful in my interest but leave it up to to the board but I just want to throw that out early
thought. Thanks for thank you very helpful. Thank you. Lame number. Hi. Uh, Rich Lamera, 32 old Powder House Road. Um, first of all, to answer Chris's question about expanding the
Cape, you have two lines here. You got the Middle, which is now called the Middle Brow line, and you got the Stoen line. So the Cape Flyer is on the Stoen line, right? Correct.
Yeah. I mean I don't Cape Flyer goes up the same to Boston. No, it goes anyway. So there have to be major changes and not to accommodate to go to Cape Fire. So I mean to expand the Cape Fire to the Cape. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. Major major changes. And the chances of that happening are not likely. The system to get here is is up to standard. Getting from here further is where it' be a lot more. So this is the area that you're talking about for development. The T also owns this land
over here. Oh, what are they going to do about that? I thought we just said that they didn't own any land outside the company. No, they own over here which is Lake which which right here. Other side of the river. It's underarm. It's under
master. I mean the farmland, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know what it is, but it's owned by It's owned by No, it's not. Yes, it is. Anyways, I that's part of it, but they do own it. Anyways,
um so just just some general comments and some facts. Um first of all, uh Jean Fox told the town who was a project manager from New Bedford in Fall River. She told the town many, many times that
it was going to stay the way it is. It was because of the Cape Fire. So now it's completely changed. So I have information back in 2023 that the TD already talked about, you know, what the proposed developments
would be and what the options are. That's 20 2023 and it was all housing. Okay? It was not commercial at all. So, I'm sure you have these documents cuz I got the documents. Anyways, what I want to point out is
that the total acreage of the industrial park is 70 acres of land. 12 of those acres are not developable. Okay? So, that gets you down to 58 acres. Currently, we have 350
units of housing under 40R and 40s um that are already developed in the apartment building. and then whatever. So based upon that, 50% of the the industrial park is already housing. So why would we encourage more housing?
So if you were going to add I'm I'm just going to throw a number up cuz nobody wants to talk about a number, but these numbers here on the sheets. If you went with 200 units, it increase to 75% for uh for housing on that on that 70 acres
of industrial park. And that's not a good idea. So currently developed under commercial and business is 16 acres out of that uh 70 acres and 12 of it 12 of it is unbuildable.
So that's pretty serious development as far as housing is concerned. So you're saying I think you said that this is 5 acres, right? Correct. And I'm guessing that that's about 1.7 1.8 acres
the parking lot. It's 200 spaces. I'm not sure the exact square footage. No, but it's about that, right? Yeah, approximately. Yeah. So, the the area for that the T supposedly owns is uh 788 acres.
That the right number? I thought it was a little bit larger including the the rightway. Okay. I don't think we own the other parcel of the Yodon. We'll get we'll get back to the town on that. So, definitely. Okay. But so this is all coming to the
assessor's maps and it's 7.78 acres of land. So your 5 acres is correct and this is about maybe two all together. Right. Rich clarification. Are you
saying the parking area is two or the parking area plus all of the purple area that the parking area here is about two? Okay. And this is the five acres they're talking about for development, right? The five acres, correct? Yeah.
Okay. So some major questions, you know, about, you know, we currently, like I said, have 315 units in that industrial park already. Across the street, the Lakeville
Hospital disaster is 458 acres of uh housing, right? So there's 200, it's already been permitted, by the way. All you have to do is take out building permits and uh there's 200 units of
apartments, you know, going into that property. So, if you look at the concentration at the area and you say there's 315 at uh currently at the industrial park and there's 458 which is a combination of apartments of 200 units
of portable units and 190 of assisted living. And then if you put housing in there and let's say it's I'll be nice and say it's 100 acres. I mean 100 houses, but I'm I'm going to say 100 won't work because you won't you won't blame the developer for that kind of money. So you're
talking about uh almost a thousand houses housing units within half a mile. That's pretty intense. So why would the town agree to develop
any more housing? We don't need them. We don't need them. The governor says we need them, but the town doesn't need them. So, I mean, that that's a major major red flag right there. Okay. And the traffic is going to be a nightmare if
that Lakeville Hospital property goes forward and then the whatever you do for the apartments or whatever, which we know that's what the governor wants to see. One of the big questions I would have, yeah, we have town water there that's available, but we don't have sewer, which means you're going to have
to build a uh wastewater treatment plant. So, the uh 200 units that we talked about that are already there that has a wastewater treatment plant is on 12 acres of land. How are you going to put housing here
and a wastewater treatment plant on 5 acres of land? How's that going to happen? I assume you thought this out. I'm getting no answers here. It's doable, but we're here to listen. So, you you clearly are stating, you
know, your opinion here. We we're here to listen and help us craft our future here. So, you know, the town, I don't know when it was, 22 years ago, put the apartments at the T station at the same time that this T station was coming into
Lakeville. I mean, we're told that's what we were going to do. And and that was considered a 40R and a 40s. And we got $3,000 per unit. We got $600,000 right up front. And then we were getting smart growth money uh which was about uh
about 3,000 more, you know, per student. There was 137 students, you know, in this one apartment complex, which is going to create another problem. And the state is cutting back that smart gross revenue. Now they're cutting it in half, which is are going to have a serious
serious impact on the budget for the tunnel Lakeville big time problem. And so that's going to force we have a budget problem as we already do right now and we got budget problems at the region, you know, but we're not we're
not a big revenue generator from the state for state aid. I mean the lottery money went up how much should we go Andrew? 40,000 maybe if that. Yeah. you know, in the schools, you know, we are a um what do they call our community? Uh
match community and we only get the minimum wage which was $150. Last year it was $75. So this is a major major problem that's going to cost the town a ton of money if we move forward with any more housing in
this area. So my opinion is is that no housing, all commercial. Thank you, Mr. Camera. Thank you. Do I have another person to come up and speak? [Music] Chris, 132 Holland Road and also board
of health member. Um much like Rich, I'm curious about the housing, too. Um, if that was to be shoved down our throats, would uh the town being the state be pwning up a little bit more money to help us with new schools down the road because our schools are old and full
already. So, that'd be one thing question I would ask. Well, I can only say that there are programs available and there's more now than there were a year ago. Well, there's already programs, but would you sweeten the deal? You know what I'm saying? Would there be more than just what's happening? We could we could not commit
to that here now that we don't control those programs. We'd be open to working with discussion. Absolutely. There's a lot in the housing uh bill that was passed as well as the economic development bill that creates opportunities for communities. And I'm
not saying they're great and they're perfect and cure all, but there's certainly um programs that are new and there's some older ones that we we try and work with, you know, our our stakeholders, partners to to bring to the table. Right now, you know, housing, commercial, nothing's going to pencil
out right now unless we find ways to bring other resources into a deal. Um, and the other question I have would be, do you already have interest? We haven't gauged the market. Nobody's had called and asked. Well, not that I
not to. No. No. Internally, I mean, we did some mockups and things just to see what could be possible. We had because we're not, you know, we're a transportation agency. So, we, you know, we we had to look and see what could be done here, other things. And I shared that with the town just to
say what could be done. And it was determined. Yes, something could happen here. But then that's, you know, that's a conversation. Great spot for a new mass DOT building or TA. You mean you've already got a bunch of state agency buildings in the closet in the park? Where's that for our revenue?
It's not going to cost us money either, right? Can I have the next person if anyone else would like to speak? Good evening. My name is Michelle McGra and I live on County Street. I'm also the planning board chair as well as community preservation chair. And I do want to thank you for coming and meeting
with this group. Um I think an information session with a lot of residents would be helpful. And I think uh member Hunt, he really hit it right on the nose cuz right now in Leo we have zero supermarkets. Zero. So bringing in all these housing and all these people,
especially if you have, you know, a diabetic person in the family or or some somebody who needs to be close to a supermarket, those sort of amenities, you have to leave town. So now that we have housing coming in on the outskirts of town, we have it large developments
of 40B on uh in Reum on the way to the supermarkets in Reum. Also in Middlear, they're putting up a lot of 40bs over there on the way to the supermarkets in in Middlear. So in order to bring in more housing, we really need to provide certain amenities for those individuals
that would be coming into town. So I do think that would be consistent uh feedback that you will receive from anformational session. Um I want to say some something about, you know, solar. We talk about solar. Instead of putting it on an empty field, put it over a parking lot. Um I know there's a big
solar electric push. Um the Namask River is not far. I'd love to see, you know, when we talk about community preservation, um the residents want to see water-based activities, something to do with an Namask, whether it's a museum, uh we used to have a river boat
in town, something um low environmental impact, something more um travel tourism minded. I know from our open space plan that's in the works of being completed, that's something that that touches on as well. uh bringing in
travel, tourism, destination ideas. Um like Mr. Hunt said, uh we don't have many sitdown restaurants. So, so I think first addressing the amenities that the the town residents really need to see in order to bring in those additional housing units first is key. Um because
as Mr. Lamera said, we do have quite a bit of housing. Like uh we're we're at our 10% right now with a pending 40b. So, we do have a lot of that on the table as it is. I think you're going to you're going to hear a
lot for the commercial. You will. You will. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next person, please. Hello, Joel. Hello. Um, resident. And you know, to echo what she said, when I do my grocery shopping,
I get up at about 6:00 in the morning and I have to drive down 44 to Plymouth to Market Basket because the smaller grocery stores here don't have what I want. So, it's it's I have to set aside about almost 2 hours to do that. It's a
hike. And as people get older and um don't drive or you know, it's it's a real um it's a real stretch. But I was happy to see and I I understand that you're MBTA and you don't have a magic wand to make this happen, but in
Lakeville we have we have a big problem which is a the Lakeville hospital which our state washed its hands of many years ago. And so this town has been burdened with that. There's there's a developer who owns it now who is saying we don't
have the money to clean it up. we can't do. And they knew that there is an issue there. Now, I was happy to hear that $5.7 million was given to affordable housing at the Winsslow building in Greenfield, the town of Greenfield
recently. I know Greenfield, it's it's a deserving community, deserving. I would really like to see our governor invest some money in helping in in however it gets done making that hospital cleaning
that hospital up because you know the developers come back to our small town and said you know help us clean we don't have the wherewithal to do that and I feel like Lakeville is a very deserving town and um and I feel like it's the
state's responsibility even though it's something that happened a long time ago It would change it would change the town in many ways and we do need a grocery store. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next person, please. If there's anyone else that would like to speak,
is everyone satisfied with the questions? Is anyone looking for anything else? Okay. So, I'll echo some of the sentiments already been expressed housing. So, uh
you know, we have several wide 40b projects on the horizon, another one potentially not far behind. Um, in areas in the town that are not, in my opinion,
conducive to housing. Um, and I'm trying to be a realist and I I understand the pressures or the intent of the governor and the legislature regarding affordable housing in the state. I understand the issues. Um what I take issue with is the
man the um position that puts us in and having to accept these projects. I guess they have to be projects in my opinion without sufficient mitigation funding for
students and so forth uh from the state. Um but at the same time trying to be realist too. Uh I understand you know we're limited can't can't say no to the 40 can't say no to the MA community act housing requirements and so forth. Uh
and there's the reason why and then taking the argument for the the retail there's a reason why we don't have a supermarket and the hospital property right now that was tried 15 20 years ago and the companies aren't going to come
in unless they're going to be profitable. So they know they know the average they know the median income for people around here. They know the population density and all that sort of stuff. And there's a reason why unfortunately it was in a nice little supermarket there. So in my opinion we
could I appreciate you getting working with us and and taking the input. You can put out the RSI for commercials in the market. I'll predict right now couldn't make it work on Main Street, you know, at the label hospital property. I doubt it's going to work.
took down that road. Um, and to to Rich's point, we don't want more housing because we, like I said, we have major projects coming on the horizon. But I I my opinion would be I would take the approach I like that representative or
presented and that you know forget the housing we want some mitigation in return funding to preserve other property that's under pressure and development pressure right now in areas of town that that it's going to have significant
impact on or potentially um credits towards uh uh subsidized housing index that that That's something that I would be looking for. That's very helpful. Thank you. I think the chair again. Yeah. Um, so sitting in front of
us this evening, I I certainly hope that you don't uh portray us as being a difficult community in any way cuz we're really not. Um, we are more frustrated than anything. Um, you know, we're small rural community where we do have public
access, you know, to our um state. We're very involved in our state. So when we do tend to have representation from the state, you're going to hear it all. Um so you're not special.
But take it put that on the sample. You know, we listen to our residents in what we want. We as a board here are determined to make sure that we try to identify ways that we can take the burden off of them. Um costs are going up, you know, that we're just reaching
to the choir, but we're going to advocate to what we can do for the to the betterment of Lakeville. So, we're we're listening to the input of our residents. Um we may appear difficult, but we're not. But we're going to have difficult conversations maybe sometime.
But that's all just wanted to say that it's very difficult. It's very This is what we're here for. This is why and we we decided to do this because we we don't want to come down and be we're not a private developer. We're not going to try and push our our desires on your town. We're here to work with you and
hope that at the end something that we can all be proud of comes out of them. But this helps us this this this helps us a lot to inform us and and help us make decisions on the next steps that we'll do in partnership with you all. I I am difficult but you are special.
Yeah. Um thank thank you very much for joining. I think you heard a lot today about um the very clear message that you're going to hear in everything, but I think we should still take the time to have public outreach meetings and schedule some public outreach meetings,
possibly some surveys as well. Um just to start gauging the interest in the conversation. Did you guys mention surveys in our conversation? Do you guys still I'm not sure. I think Yeah. So, we've been Scott and I are working on a project with the service plaza. totally different than this, but
we put together a survey uh and built like a a platform for people to kind of log on and uh give us a lot of feedback so we can kind of sort the data, but then also uh opportunity for freehand responses. And if how do you vet the email address actual servant? Oh, no.
How do you vet the responses? Like how are you how are you validating that the responses are from actual residents of the area? Um hopefully uh we can figure that out so that there so
that there's not kind of the uh the opportunity to influence it so to speak cuz it it you know surveys is only as good as deep the participation if I can pronounce that word you know and and it's an opportunity to to get feedback but if if there's a big push to
influence it that's unfortunate. So but we can work on that. Don't be a little wor worried about the quality of the data that you'd be receiving if you had a cart blanch for for emails. I would rather you see um our email um list serve for our people that are very
interested in town. Um on our website we send out email blasts to people on town. So we have kind of a listing of the people that are interested as well. So those would be what I would call verified emails. Fair enough. We can work with you. we can email it to and you can, you know, ask somebody to put
in their uh zip code and and things of that nature to try to verate as much as you can, but it just gets money advertisement on a billboard, for example. Gets a little money. Um and uh again, the message I think you received today here is that we have so much
housing being presented to us constantly in the last two plus years. Um that that's pretty much the only development we're seeing in town. and to add more housing on to it is probably not going to be the conversation that's going to be um popular or welcome um because it
does not add to the tax base. It does not give people the quality of life to be able to do more in town and to be you know more part of their town as as one of our audience members said they drive through town like to get other places.
So we want to be better than that for the people of Lakeville. We want to make sure that we're um giving them amenities and taking the tax burden off if possible, even though that is a magic wish wish list in this economy. Um I know that's uh more what you're going to
hear of and to to to partner on what uh member Carboni said. We've had some not so great dealings with the state. um whether it be the hospital, whether it be our agreement with 40R, whether it be even the development of MBTA, we get
kind of a a a moving goalpost. Um, and whatever we decide and and do together, I want to make sure it's as ironclad as as Representative Oruro was talking about with the zoning and not making sure that it is out of character if something gets built there or making
sure if uh the leases um that they're not taxexempt leases um and that we're we're getting fair value for what's going on in town. But um other than that, I think this is very nice of you guys to come in and and listen to us and
um we can start with the next steps coordinated through Andrew um and get some more community member involvement. Sounds great. Well, we thank you for it. And any other further questions? You can pass them through Andrew to us and we'll get right back to you. Thank you very
much. Appreciate it. All right, that was item number two. Item number three is discussion regarding Nope. Just discussion regarding property at 125 Porsche Drive. Does anyone have any further discussion they'd like to talk about with the board, whether it be
surveys, whether it be anything, or are you guys satisfied at this time? Have to put together some kind of a timeline um to have some deliverables. Yeah, I would like to see that. We have an opportunity here.
Um, and I would like to grasp it, but I'd like to have some parameters on it so that we can move the Yeah. So, we know forward so we know so it's achievable. And um, Andrew, can we strive for mid August for
a survey to go out? Yeah. And September for an actual public event. I we used to try to do September. We used to try to do some events. We just session coming. Yes, we're still in session. Just want to leave this with you. Thank you. I
think I have that one. 2023. I was there for the gene. You can see the three. Thank you, Brett. You're welcome. Um but yeah, you want it earlier than that? Do you think we can? I just I don't think in person in the summer is going
to happen. Yeah. I think September is a really good in person. We did that with Serpent for that same reason when we did the master plan. We had that same conversation. You were there. I was there. You were there. So September for the inerson event. But
yeah, I'm very concerned with the quality of how many fake emails they would be getting um saying go away and you know the same just email over and over and over. Yes. Yes. and it's skewing the results and and all that
stuff. But if we had a verified email list that we could share with them, which we do um in between um you know, we send everyone out a blast, ask if it's okay for them to participate or just send the survey right through there and have it locked in where um where the
respondents have to match the email address even like a Google survey. Yeah. Right. Yep. I just No. Right. Willy-nilly. Oh, 100% agree with that. Yeah. No. Um, is there any further discussion today or
we uh satisfied? Andrew's ready. He's got his jacket on. Yeah. This is the library. This whole thing just Yeah. They got a taste of what it'll be like. So, it's very important to start them off on the
right foot. Old business. New business. The good thing is that our meeting tonight is at the COA. COA Mr. Mr. Panka 5:45. Yes. Member
take a motion to adjourn. Second. Second. Motion is second. Roll call. I can't do it. All right.