[Music] Welcome to the Tuesday, April 22nd, 2025 meeting of the Lake Bell Select Board and Wage and Personnel Board. Um, is anyone recording the meeting other than
Lakeam? Seeing no one's recording, we can slide right into the call to order. Calling to order. Lakeville Select Board. Roll call vote. Your day here. Indeed, mayor. Plug in.
Carbon. I. All right. We're on to FY26 budget questions and impacts. I'm going to let Andrew and Mike take this over for a little bit and we can have some discussions. I wanted to get this group together to make sure that we all understood all the inputs and outputs
for the budget for the 2026 budget season as there was lots of really great robust communication and uh few follow-ups that we had from the meetings of the last two weeks. So with that I will push it right along. Okay. Thank
you. So first of all I g passed out an updated fiscal year 26 capital plan. Uh the big change is the sidewalk plow is no longer in the fiscal 26 capital plan and we pushed um let's see the vehicle replacement for
the police department from capital stabilization over to free cash. I think that was it. And then uh the new roof at the park office would be coming out of retained earnings, not free cash. Um, so for this first item, uh, just a a
very intro, we put together three scenarios for you guys tonight. Uh, we'll go through those on agenda item four. Um, really just, uh, hoping to get any sort of questions from the groups to see if
there's any lingering questions before we dive into all this stuff. Hey, do we have handouts or do I have to try to look at that? Just look at that. Can everybody do that? Yeah, I can. No, maybe. Um, I can
almost Oh, it's better. Keep going. [Music] It's like an eye exam. Better work. I think if I go any I see that. Okay. Yeah, I'm good there. Thank you. You see? Perfect. I'll make
it work. Um, so is there any questions from anyone? This is not on this is agenda item four. So we should wait though. Wait. Yeah. Those kind of questions if there's anything with parks or anything else.
If not, we can go on to the next agenda item. Sure. Any questions from anyone? One, what would that leave parks retained earnings at? um less than $12,000 because they're using
15 for this and approximately 15 for their operating budget and they were only served at 43 thou certified at 43,000 so about 123,000. All right. Thank you. And the capital expenditures committee meeting is this Thursday at 2:00. So of
course the capital plan is subject still to change. Have all members been sworn in? Um, I don't know if Brian has. I've not been given any paperwork this morning yet, I think. Um, I think the rest of them are sworn in. I I believe it's in
the full I think I just signed signatures. Okay. Yep. And then the rest every year someone doesn't go they have to run right before the meeting. Sorry about the capital [Music]
expendit been notified about the capital expenditure meeting. Barbara has. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Um next agenda item updates on funding sources. Um so the house budget came back in I think this past Wednesday or
Thursday. Um just some of the results from that is the schools received um roughly 211,000 in additional aid. Um we actually on the town side went down 22,000. Um the smart growth is still not
in the budget. Um I wasn't personally expecting it at this point if it was to come back anyways. Um, was it 22,000 on chapter money or was it just on I believe it was unrestricted unrestricted general aid.
Um, and then some of the funding sources um like the meals tax and cannabis and short-term rentals, we didn't make any assumptions in the budget for those. Um, even if we were to pass those within fiscal 26, I wouldn't want
to take a chance at estimating what those would be. Um, so at this point those aren't in there, but I think at least the meals tax is a good option for the fall if the board would support that. Um, usually on the taxes and and
this is just my experience. Anyone can tell me different. We usually put that to the finance committee first and the finance if the finance committee recommends a tax article then it pushes to the select board. So that's just the way it had been in the past. Yep. Yeah.
and we've we've done no background work on it yet. So, um that might be a future item for the finance committee. Okay. Yeah. Just let me know. Yep. Yep. Same with the um the rentals, etc., etc. Yep. Um Madam Chair. Yes. Uh Andrew, for the
school, do you know the chapter 71? I heard there was an increase with chapter 71. Uh chapter 7. Transportation. Did I get the right chapter? Chapter 70. Um the school. Oh, which one's transportation? 90. Oh, chapter 90. Yep. Okay. So 70 went up I think about
100,000 or so, but the big one was transportation went up like 170. Okay. So combined combined it was about that's that's your 211. Yep. Got it. Thank you. Yep. Um question if I may. Do you recommend leaving the number we provided
them with the same or requesting some back now that they've gotten more? I was going to meet with the schools on that. Um I don't know quite how that mechanically works with their budget, but um it's obviously contingent on their uh school negotiations as well.
Yeah. Do we know if Freetown went up the same amount or for funding for them? Did we see if their funding was increased as well or is it just the Lakeville portion? Well, no, it's just um as the district itself. Okay. So, it's overall.
Overall. Got it. Yep. Yep. Um, obviously the funding sources aren't great from the state. Um, hopefully smart growth comes back, but still don't know yet. Um, what I've kind of heard informally is that we're not
going to really know until July or potentially even August this year. Um, it really depends on when the governor signs. Yep. Um, do we want to go over like um any of the funding sources at this point or just next agenda item? um
probably to the next agenda. Yeah, I had a funding source comment um for the group. So, back three years ago um and and I know I'm beating a dead horse. Back three years ago, um it was the decision of the
board of selectmen to vote that they took a one-time lumpsum payment for the cell tower. um it's a great idea to have you know that money and that money is sitting in stabilization earning interest. However, what they did in
effect was remove a funding source from the the operating budget. And that funding source for the operating budget somewhere around 65ish um you know for the budget like because it was it was 40 something and then with
the increase that they were proposing it was either 60s something plus or this lump sum. Yeah. So, but in effect what we did is we cut off a funding source for a a yearly budget. How much I'd love to have a lump of money and earning some
interest. I did want to propose to this board to consider having some type of mechanism where we take some of the interest from that funding source every year. um an amount to be determined, hopefully around
$65,000, and designate that to go directly into the operating budget to continue to keep that big nugget of money, but only use the interest in order to fund what we would have funded through the operating budget for every
year. Currently, we're sitting at around a 4% interest rate, 3.3 hovering around there. Uh so um depending on where the interest rate lays, it shouldn't affect that amount because the interest should be around
90,000 currently. Uh through March 31st, it was actually about 120,000. Yeah. So we're still acrewing interest. We're still we still have that uh interest gaining more dollars in through but we take a portion of that dividend and we
appoint it to go into the budget yearly in order to replace that revenue source that we left. So in essence if we are able to do this if this is something the group ends up agreeing to we will have a very rare situation where we can have
our cake and eat it too. whereas in we get to keep that good dollar stabilization funding source and use just the interest to replace what was lost in the operating budget. So I ran that briefly um by our
town accountant to see if you can do it. Um and it's something he said we could do if we did have the appetite for it. It is a it is a lastditch effort to make sure that we're making good choices about our yearly revenue and not just
the one-time sources. So, um, open the floor for comments. So, my understanding is when we made that vote at town meeting, all that money went into a a single capital stabilization fund. So, that fund's not kind of it's co-mingled with other stabilization. Um, so we'd be
spending potentially interest off of not just cell tower money. Um, but it would only be $60,000. It would be a set amount. It wouldn't be all of the dividends. I hear you, but I'm saying that interest is everything, not just on cell tower money. So, and I'm a I'm personally a friend of compounding
interest. I wouldn't want to touch that unless we have to. And I would also want to get clarification since it's in a capital stabilization. Can it only come out for capital use? So, yeah, you would want to tie it to a an appropriation in the budget. So, my recommendation would
be to tie it to debt payments, you know, um that we've incurred through capital purchases, which we're actually going to hit on tonight in one of the scenarios. Yep. Any other questions? Oh, so how much was this onetime payment for the tower? 2.1
million somewhere in that neighborhood. Yeah. 2.1 million, which is a great number to put and and really did a great job putting stabilization, you know, on the map for us and making sure we had money for necessary things, but it's 20
years at like 60 something,000 was removed from the operating budget. So, and you said it was earning $120,000 a year right now. So, it's like a $3 million balance in there. Um, there's not quite a $3 million. Yeah, it's close to 2.9. Yeah,
but that's for the whole thing, not just the cell portion, cell tower portion. Yeah, I believe there was a transfer into capital stabilization at the annual last year or the last year from free cash. So, the cell tower makes up like 75% of that balance like on principal and then it'll be like 90,000 that we
would have got from the tower's interest. So, I get your point. I get Brian's point too. Like we'd be taking from like at least the principal from the tower and not the remaining balance in that case. Yeah, sure. You you'd just be killing any interest going forward. But if you don't
have an operating budget, you're not touching your principal balance though, so you'd still be earning, right? But you'd no longer be compounding, right? I think my, you know, my recommendation to that would be to come up with a funding mechanism with a financial policy. So if you do take in the spring to fund, say,
a portion of your debt payments from capital stabilization, you also have a funding mechanism once free cash is certified in the fall to kind of put money back in. Yep. Um, so I think that's important so we're not just drawing down on it. I think that's a good point. And and if I may, Madam
Chair, my feeling is that anything in capital stabilization is for one-time, you know, purchases. So I guess I have that philosophy that, you know, we don't know what's coming down, you know, the pike. So that's kind of our um security
blanket should anything, you know, really happen. And I know it has to go in front of town meeting too, but um you know the the fact that we are compounding the interest, I think that was the goal was to try to build what we could without touching it. I mean I was
just I didn't want to touch that money if we didn't have to. Yeah. I mean like as I had mentioned taking a revenue source away from a revenue source strapped town is probably not a good
financial maneuver as well. Madam chair, can I ask a question? Um I know we are going to be concerned with our bond rating and perhaps it's more question for Mike in terms of when we go for the fire station, any other uh debt service we have to do. How would taking
these funds impact um the bond ratings? It wouldn't it wouldn't be in our favor per se, you know, um because we're short right now, right? Yeah. They they want to see Do you guys want to open real quick now that you have form? Sure. I'll call the Lakeville Finance Committee meeting to order on April 22nd at 6:02
p.m. Roll call. Barbara Mikovski. Uh right here. Aaron Beiel's eye here. Thank you. So, sorry. Yes. So, they like healthy balances and stabilization funds. They love financial policies. They love to see funding mechanisms for things like OPEB. Um, and like I said, just putting
money into stabilization in general to build it up. Um, so I wouldn't say it's going to go in our favor. Um, probably have to speak to the finan our financial adviser to see if it's going to be like a heavy strike against us, but I don't think it would help get us into that
AAA. So that's a cost benefit, right? You you paying more interest on one side and maybe having more on the other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can come on the other side. Yep. What if you dedicated it to OPED? Um, well, I I suppose we did, but OPED
has its own stabilization fund, which we typically annually put free cash in. So, um, I think that's that's like the norm amongst most municipalities is just kind of take a chunk of your free cash, put it towards OP. That's a a good box to check for, um, bond rating for sure. Yeah, because if you have a dedicated
fund source to OPED, that bounces up the fund rating. Yeah, in my previous town, we had one built into our operating budget as well as a financial policy where we had to put X amount from free cash in every year. So, we were putting like a million two in OPED or at least a million um in OP every year. So, yeah,
you can get creative with it, but typically it's free cash uh once a year to help fund ST uh OPED. Anyone else have any thoughts on it? Sounds like a something we need to discuss more. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just introducing it. Um love everyone to
think about it and then see how our free cash is at the end of the year and Yeah. We can continue that discussion. Yes. Because again using this for other things like it was intended originally as a revenue source is just kind of where I'd like to go back for. Um, but
if the board doesn't have a taste for it, that's okay, too. Hey, interest is nice, too. I got no problem with interest. I'm good. Anyone else for anything else? No, I a question on two. I didn't realize we're skipping by that so quick.
I'm sorry. Can we go back to two? Um, question if I may. I forgot my book, so I don't have the numbers directly in front of me, but I know I had sent some questions on the the increased park revenue. Uh it was a clear pond season passes. It got going
up almost 60% this year. Seems really high. We'll know pretty quickly in early FY26 if that number was overshot or not. Can we keep an eye on that or kind of get reports from them because that that
worries me a bit. Yeah, absolutely. Um I do know that um prior to my arrival towards the end of November um on the tax rate, Todd had increased uh estimated receipts for the park higher than they had ever been before. And we
had to kind of provide a narrative to the state to push the tax rate through similar to what I would have to do with the general fund if we did something like that. And the reason being was because of the new contract signed with Lon Pond. They kind of accepted that as you know we'll hit kind of hit that
mark. Um, estimates for 25 were 290,000. Obviously, they're up to about 313 now, but definitely keep an eye on it for sure. Um, to member Day's point on um on uh Clear Pond, um it seems like they might have just found a number to
address the deficit that we are not paying this year and not really had any thought or due diligence on coming up with that number. And that concerns me because that feels knee-jerk. Yeah. Uh that's why we're keeping a
little bit in the retained earnings as Brian asked about 1012,000 there. Um probably hesitant at first to move the 15 for the roof just in case they need some mid-year adjustment in the fall. Um but based off what was certified by the state before my arrival and given that
the new contract hadn't been signed till I think October of this year. But that's the Loom Pond contract. That's the London contract. clear. So I think they're just kind of watching bottom line revenues. So um I have a question for member Carboni
whenever they raise the prices. Don't they usually have the select board pass that? No. When they had clear pond park passes last year and they opened it up, it came before the select board. I don't think
we was in front of us for a vote. I think they set the rates. They set the rates. We just said if who was it available to? Right. Right. That's why it came back in front of us. Thank you. Because of the money I think that we allocated to them. Thank you. It's definitely tight. I think you know as I
said I right when I first started we kind of had to sell it to the state that we had this new fixed price contract in place and we could increase revenues um that we were counting on getting from Lon Pond. So, uh, but it is like many of our receipts, our local receipts, the
estimates right up against the actual, so it's close. Um, the other question I had was on there was a line for lodge utilities reimbursements that Yeah. only goes up about 4,200. Mhm. But we increased the
electricity line from 24 to 36,000. And the narrative we were given was because Cranberry Catering will be paying the electricity bill directly to us. Mhm. I'm trying to figure out where the other $8,000 of that is. Yeah, I can I can My understanding was that that was for the
electricity for all the parks, right? Um I watched the meeting today. I could have interpreted this wrong, but it was that 24 to 30K was going to be parks and loom pond Lodge all in one line item.
But if it went up 12, if I'm only seeing 4,200 in the revenues specifically saying lodge utilities reimbursement, it just seems like a big gap. Must be somewhere, but it didn't make sense looking at the lines. Yeah, I can double check that.
Yeah, look into that. Anyone else? Okay, free to move on. Yeah. So this is the I guess the nitty-gritty of uh budgeting. Um so we created three
scenarios to uh hopefully I guess fix the problems that we have identified over the budget hearings and the budget original budget presentation. Excuse me chair to Andrew. Is this discussion on requested enhancements or are we still in the requested? Okay, we moved on. Okay. Yep.
Um, so Mike's going to kind of run through each of the three scenarios. Um, there some of the same, some of it's different. Um, feel free to ask any questions. This probably doesn't view very well online, but this is like
really like the nitty-gritty of budgeting in a municipality. Um, so what I will request of the of both boards is to take a vote on each individual enhancement whether it's a yes or a no.
So without further ado, sure. Thanks. So in all three scenarios, um, I took estimated new growth down by $25,000 on the revenue portion because, uh, what we're seeing is not the type of permits we thought we would see. So, just to kind of take a conservative approach, I
brought that down to 25,000. I um EMS receipts are projected to be closer to 1.2 million as we discussed in the last couple weeks. So, I increased those 70,000. And some of the uh in all three scenarios, I kind of level funded some of the revenue estimates from the prior year. It was kind of plus minus by a,000
or $4,000 and I just kind of brought those to level fund. Um really in the first scenario, the big um influx of revenue is using 376,000 from debt service stabilization to cover the
FY26 debt payment for ASAW uh windows and doors project. Um it's not ideal as Lorine mentions, it's a onetime revenue source. However, it gets us um everything that you see that makes up
this 296,000 on the screen here. It gets us the four firefighters built into the budget. It uh covers the fringe benefits of 54,840. Um we obviously could take down unemployment because we're not projecting cuts in this scenario. Um and
then the remainder are um most of them are housekeeping items. um different education stipens, getting the assessor's salary from the expense line as we spoke about last week up into a salary line and uh putting the town planner back in because there was talk
of that being taken out and put back in. So would essentially be increasing the budget $296,000. Um however, this scenario still includes using free cash as well to um fund the budget. So we would be using 165,000 504 from free cash and
376,000 from capital stabilization. But this is basically putting all new enhancements with the exception of the police and the select board and uh you know taking the firefighters that are currently paid out of opera and putting them in the budget. So would really be
tapping into kind of allet one-time revenue sources stabilization and free cash in this scenario. Ideally, I think in the fall we'd come back and put any free cash back into the capital stabilization. So, it's really a revolving door of
Yeah. Yeah. I would literally probably say if if free cash comes in where it was last year, 146, we would we should put at least 300 back in. Um, so this is a short-term fix, if you will. Um the next scenario is uh similar to
what you've already seen in the initial budget presentation. Um it's really just those handful of housekeeping items. We had two um education stipens come up at $900. Um we fixed the enhancement for the clerk salary as we discussed at the
first kickoff meeting. We took the food for the dog officers and they will rely on their donation accounts for that. And then we um cleaned up the um assessing salaries. Um and this still cuts I shouldn't say cuts because they were never part of the budget, but it does
not fund the four firefighters. It does not include any of the fixed cost. It doesn't include the two police officers that were requested by the police department. So this is pretty bare bones. This is basically what you've already seen with a handful of housekeeping items. Um but in this
scenario, we're completely weaned off of free cash. So, we're still using the 376 from capital stabilization, but we're uh we're free cash free. We're structurally balanced at this point, if you will. Mike, quick question. Sure. When you're going through these, are we basically
saying in this uh sheet here, right? So, rows 6 through 11 would be the additions. The stuff below is what's below the cut line. Yeah. Right here, scenario one addition. So, this and again, this 26,000 is just more housekeeping things that we h had noted during the first two budget meetings.
Um, so this is really bare bones. Um, weaning us off free cash and using the 376 to cover the debt payment for rasawset. I should also note um we can mix and match. You don't got to pick a scenario. You can pick something from the list that's getting cut and add it
to the what's getting added. So all a cart. All Exactly. So these aren't like this isn't glued down yet obviously, but they serve as kind of like templates. Mhm. Then the final scenario if everyone can
see is uh again common theme using capital stabilization. Um we added in um new enhancement of the council on aging. We added in all all of the housekeeping items that we spoke about. We increased the town clerk salary um education stipens. And in this scenario, we still
did not fund the four firefighters or the two police officers or the dispatcher. That was part of a new enhancement this year. Um, we did put the town planner position back in at 89,604. Um, and in this scenario, like
the previous, we we have weaned ourselves off of free cash. So, we're not using free cash to balance the budget here, but as mentioned, we are still using 376,000 from capital stabilization to fund that debt payment. Um, and really these we're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel trying
to come up with ideas on how to get us through whether we use free cash, use stabilization. It's somewhat of a shell game at times, but um, you know, and we know how important it is to try to make all the department heads requests come to fruition. So, um, it's pretty much
where we're at with the three scenarios. I think with all three scenarios, we have enough reashing reserve for I would what I would probably call next year an override doesn't pass or we don't choose to do an override. We have some sort of
cushion to meet any sort of um challenge, let's say. And I can send this to everyone. Um, so they have an electronic copy of it, but it does have a free cash breakdown. So every scenario
has where we were certified at our free cash, what we've been used, what this scenario would use, um, and then leaves us an ending balance. So can you zoom in a little bit, please? Sure. Oh, much better.
So this scenario here was the the first one I displayed. It had everything in it. It had bringing the opera guys into the operating budget. um using 376 from capital stabilization to fund the debt payment. And as I mentioned, we're still using 165,000 between the reserve fund
and operations to uh to balance the budget. Um so this is kind of everything but the PD enhancements. Um and then every scenario has one of these. Um sorry.
So you know this scenario was um similar to what you've already seen. This is kind of just doing the housekeeping items. Weaning us off of free cash. So we use 16,000 in the fall, expected to use 125 this year for OPB and 558 for the capital plan. And the other scenario
is the exact same. So as Andrew mentioned, it leaves us 722,000 from the fiscal 25 uh I'm sorry, the fiscal 24 free cash certification. So it leaves us a cushion going into next year. Um but really it's as Andrew said, it's kind of mix and match what we choose to do.
Um but number one. Yeah. Um um I I get I see where you're drawing down from the free cash. You did say you you draw I lost it when you guys attacked the stabilization. So all three of these scenarios are using capital
stabilization to make our FY26 debt payment for the ASOS project and that would normally come from operations operations from the budget. It's not excluded debt. So it's not raised on the tax rate. Right. So instead of coming out of the operational budget, it's going to come from stabilization to
fund. Okay. And that amount was 376,000. Okay. All right. So that frees up 376 technically, right? It freezes that that amount. Yeah. And I increase receipts by 53,000 I think. So yeah. Yeah. You tweaked the Yeah, the
receipts. I got that. Okay. Which is why in that scenario, we can put 296,000 and kind of take our estimated revenue down. It's a balancing act, right? We can we can recoup the full 425,000 or we can add in 296,000 and try to keep our
revenues, you know, uh, fairly conservative and have a good free cash number next year. So, it's so it comes really comes down to the priorities and how much free cash we want to remain for the next year. It's every every choice is a pirick victory. So, uh, you know, we can either fund things at appropriate
levels and support, um, you know, services in town. Um, and and we're not being, uh, we're not throwing caution to the wind on any of these. There's no splurges that are going on. Even, uh, at our highest rated scenario, scenario
one, there there's no splurges going on. Um or we could find various ways in order to live within our dwindling means. Um and uh but that means cuts to
existing service. Um and by existing service, I'm only really talking about um the firefighters for the existing service. Um because technically they're they were funded from one-time monies. So that wasn't we had COVID money and
then that what was it? CARES money and then ARPA money funding positions. The COVID money funded two firefighters for two years. Uh was that the CARES money? No, the ARPA money was supposed to fund four for
like a year and a half. ARPA. Yeah. But it was CAR's money first. We got the init the initial two. Yes. Yeah. We had initial two for CARES money and I think that was two years 2020 all of 2020 and 2021ish. Um and then the CARES which you're
you're right it was supposed to fund us for a year and a half. Yep. And because of some irregularities in the way it was processed it only funded us for a little bit more than the year. So we we took a
hit on that funding source. And I'm I'm glad you brought that up because you see what we're doing here, right? Where we funded four firefighters with a onetime revenue source. Now we're trying to put them in the operating budget. Now we're finding a onetime revenue source to fund something. Oh, yes. Second, there's no irony lost here.
Like there's no good choices to make um for any of the boards. Um but there are choices to make. So, I I think one of the positives we have we're trying to put enough free cash away or not use it cuz we're seeing some towns use close to
a million and then they're like verbally saying we need an override next year and if they don't if they're using that much free cash and they don't get it. Oh, they're it's like absolute deficits if they don't do that by multitude. Yeah. Yeah. It's just I don't
want a bank on an override. So, um, that's why you see some free cash in reserve. Could we go back to the, um, the free cash tracker you had there on another tag? Any other is just to make sure I understand them. Yep. So, this example here, we got available balance 557. Are
you saying that in the fall when we know how things are going, you'd say take 300 400 of this and put it back and then leave us with 100? Well, ideally, so it's kind of a cumulative certification. So, we spent the full 1.4 422 that was certified by Todd. Um would
be kind of starting at zero, right? So we're we're starting at 557 in this scenario. I like to think that by the time November rolls around, I'll have free cash certified. Um so you'll have a new aotment. Okay. Um so you'll be plucking from your new bucket um at that point. But yeah, let's just say worst case scenario, free cash is not
certified at the November Balltown meeting. Yes, I would say let's tap into this. But either or back from that. Yeah, we'll have free cash certified by Halloween hopefully. So, we'll have a new aotment. There's at least 425 coming
back. Writing that down in my book. I don't want to bank on, but I would say it's going to be about the somewhat somewhat amount, maybe a little higher. I agree. I think we're going to be around 145. Um, so if we I mean, if we really had to, we could pull back on the capital plan next year, which, you know,
except for 175,000, which we can never make a move on. No, eight years. Madam Chair, if I can. Y um I I know this comes up periodically before town meeting. Uh so if we allocate money for a particular project at town meeting and then there's excess, you know, fund
after the project, seems like every now and again there's one that pops up and says that we still have money left there. Have we exhausted all of those? Yeah. So, uh Todd did a wonderful job making sure that those were all up to date. Any available balances, it's small, but you cobble together enough
you can cover something. Um Todd did a great job at doing that. Um same approach I took in my previous town. Uh Franklin um DPW Super came to me with some old articles that we could cobble together and offset, but it's it's pick your poison. I can either offset a future capital item or I can just close
them to free cash now. The net result is the same. So my practice was not to offset the cost of a new item. It was just to close them in the free cash immediately. Um but I mean I can do either or. But yeah, we can do that. Yeah. I was just curious what was still lingering out there. Um and again,
onetime money, you know, thinking in that brain um to allocate it towards something like that, especially if we're if we're moving free cash into something that's not um Yeah. No, it's a it's a great point.
There's just uh Todd was on top of it, so there's not a lot out there hanging out, and there's not a lot of articles that are stagnant either. Like anything that's older, people are still drawing down on and they're utilizing. So, um, yeah, there's not a whole lot. Yeah, for ask the question. No, it's a great
question. Another source that we've tapped into when we've been in bad straits is the assessor's um overlay. Um, I don't think there's I don't think it's funded this year because of issues. I think it draw it got drawn down
significantly. Yeah. So, the required amount from the tax recap last year to put in was 198,000. I put a placeholder of a hundred thousand just so it didn't get lost, if you will. Um, but yeah, we should ideally be putting a couple
hundred thousand in there. Um, you can see we needed 198. Yeah, we used to put 138. We needed 198 last year. I'm putting a placeholder of 100,000. Um, we're right where we need to be right now. Okay, good. Um, so if we were to take anything out of overlay, I would say for a small project like 20 25,000,
which I believe is what they did last year. I think they covered something at annual town meeting with 25,000 of overlay, but I wouldn't recommend taking nope hundreds out. It's it's right where it needs to be. So, yeah, that was kind of the first spot I looked after last
week's meeting. So, comments. So, um, my I guess my question is, you know, we we know that we've made mistakes in the past by funding things from bonus money, right? It's like
paying for your household operating expenses with money you get for a bonus once a year. That's irresponsible because that bonus may not come the next year. So, we're kind of doing that again by taking money out of free cash and capital reserve to cover our expenses without seeing a print out of how those line items match up. um what
alternatives do we have to look at to say well because to me it's very different to say well we're going to use free cash to buy something for the police department for example that's a we make the decision we don't make the decision but it's not saying we're going to hire these two fire police officers
for you know from that same free cash so is there a way for us to figure out like is can we fund the operating budget without touching free cash. No, you can't. The only choice is to raise taxes. Well, you can only raise taxes 2
and a half% unless there's an override. So, um, and then obviously the the other option would be cuts on the appropriation side. Um, but yeah, I mean, you're kind of, like I said before, it's kind of a shell game. Like, you're using free cash to build up your capital stabilization, and then you're
using capital stabilization to fund your budget. But you can say, we're not using free cash, but it's a direct transfer. is yeah, you know, we're just calling it something else. We're calling it something else. So, um no, you're right. Um and we was one of the first things Andrew asked was, is there any debt we
could cover um you know, for this year? And as you can see right here in the middle of the page, we only have $443,000 and 443062 of non-excluded debt. So the 805 we raise on the tax rate. So that's a net zero. We raise it
and we pay it. the 443 376 of that is the asumpset band payment and the rest comes in via um community septic uh it's levied on the real estate bill so it's essentially a net zero as well um and it's only $58,000 I think um so um there's really
no you know like big expenses like in the debt area that you can just pay off and be debtree or anything like that which I wouldn't even advise because when the time comes when you have to borrow then it's we're right back to where we are now it's sticker shock to build it into the operating budget. So,
um yeah, it's uh so yeah, we're really not structurally balanced, operational balanced regardless, but we're leaving our free cash alone. Okay. So, that that that statement right there is kind of what I want to zero in. We are not structurally balanced. No. And we knew that last year going into this year and
we know it's going to get worse. We know, you know, the school and all of the different things that are coming around the corner. When is the right time to bite that bullet? two years ago. Yeah. Well, I mean, we're going to vote on passing it again and are we going to say we made another
mistake? That's why I'm asking. Um, obviously with the board's input, I was going to probably immediately after town meeting start pushing Yeah. an override. So, we're not the only town. If you're if you're looking if you're looking to see everyone, um, you know,
your expenses have gone up more than 2 and a half% in every year for the last, you know, 8 n years. It's been so incredibly significant. So too have the expenses of the towns. Um and we just haven't kept up with any of it. And we
haven't kept up with any of uh you know wages uh for some of our personnel. Like we've been we've been running very lean for a very long time and there's only so long that lasts you and especially in a environment like we have today uh with a
high high inflation environment. So last year um Bob Nunes pulled the last bit of magic out of the Lakeville Magic hat and he said to us exactly he goes this is this might be your last year and he thought we would have have
to do an override this year. M so when we started seeing the funding sources below and everything come in it really cemented it that you know that he he did have his his uh his little magic eightball in in well and he could see um
the writing on the ball. So, um, us, Ducksberry, Bridgewwater, Rainham, they're actually in all worse places than us. I think, uh, was it Hansen that 31? Houston, it's all 31. Yeah, 31 teachers laid off and, you know, half a
department laid off and and all of that. When is the uh the regional school system going to start impacting our budget? Because it they impacted already. No, with the with the capital plan. So with the capital plan, they haven't asked for any capital this but
the numbers coming around, right? So their budget back in 2019 was the same size as our budget. So we were around 2930 million. They were around the same. So they're at what 44 49
49 million. So their budget has continued to go on this type of trajectory where we're cost containing etc etc. Theirs has really gone up on a higher trajectory. So they're taking more of our budget every year. We were
at 53% then 54 55. Now we're at 57% of our budget goes to the schools now. So they're taking a disproportionate amount but we don't have any control over that obviously besides the you know I apologize. I wasn't I wasn't clear. I
know we had some No, on a tangent. I was No, I wasn't clear. Um there are some uh improvements that need to be made at the uh high school and the compound, right? They haven't they haven't come to us this year. They haven't come to us, but those numbers are jaw-dropping. You guys have heard those numbers. So, they're
going to come to us at some point. Do you have any idea is that going to be in three years? Is that going to be because I know they're maintaining boilers right now. They have lease on the boilers whereas in they were supposed to come like 3 years ago to the towns and try to
have a capital project. I don't know where that went or why that went arai but I did see that there are some um grants out there for school boilers right now and some some stuff we can try to work with but no idea when they're
coming. But they're coming. They're always coming. Is there I'm sorry. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Is there um was there a feasibility study done for Freetown Lakeville schools? Yeah, they they replacing the high school. They created a facility master plan that had between
three and five options. The biggest one is obviously 288 million. Exactly. So lowest was like 90 million and the highest was like 2 280 290. Yep. Okay. So if they are going to be coming to us with those kinds of numbers, are we talking in three years? What what are
your thoughts? I've asked them and they didn't they said we're still evaluating. Okay. So, they haven't given a hard answer. Um, all they say is it's going to be a public conversation in front of the school committee. Okay. So, we have that and then we have the old colony. Does anybody have any idea what the old
colony numbers were the the Well, that's a tricky situation being thrown around. The the ceiling that this the building committee voted was 280 million. The actual number they're hoping to be far less than that. Um the 280 was built in
due to um what we should say is still a uh less than predictable construction market especially with things happening right now. Uh that vote would be November 18th tentatively. Yep. Um and that would then
be if it passed shovels in the ground I think they said would be sometime during calendar 27. Sound right? Y and then that would be early borrowing. uh but they wouldn't have to take on the full assessment. And so we're trying to get we actually asked for that timeline recently. We said, can we get a timeline
to say if this passes, when do residents start to see this assessment get hit on them because we need to know because we just passed a fire station, right? So we need to know when they're hit with that, when they get hit for a colony. Point of clarification, MSBA usually funds 50% of
that number. Uh they're at 46, I believe. 46% of what's called allowable construction costs. So there are certain things that are not allowed to be um funded by MSBA. So what you're looking at is you take the number, let's say 46%
as a rough number, and then divide that across the towns. Um then there's a awkward formula on how that works, but you could say Lake roughly 22 to 25% of that number. So you don't we don't really have a timeline on that. We can't say that
we're going to be looking at potentially asking voters for additional funds in three year. We're not exactly sure. That's coming in November. That's coming in November, right? And then the next one is the next one would be two years after that. Nope. That's the only vote. That's
the only one scheduled for November. But that's all excluded debt. That's all that doesn't go into like an operating budget. That's all excluded debt. It will it will affect us eventually. everything. It's about 250 more students. Yeah. So, uh, take 25% of
that. That's going to be on the assessment. Only if we get a full complement of Lakeville students going in there, whereas in this year we didn't shift from one district to another school, too. So, Yep. Yep. money will follow around. Yep. Y but there will be
more operating costs. Yeah. [Music] Good questions. I think that I think that the the the scope of that is something that, you know, I haven't seen since I've lived here. Um, it's hard to wrap your mind around it and what
exactly that would mean for taxpayers. Um, but I do think if we're going to go into asking for an override, whether that's this year or next year, that's the key part of the conversation because you you don't want to hit them up again 12 or 18 months later and say, "Hey, you
know, we need to come back to the the bucket." Well, you have to. I know we have to, but there's ways of managing. So, it's not like this. It's more like that's why we're we're kind of stuffing away free cash as much as we can just in
there's no guarantee an override passes. I think the stats like 15% of them pass so a vast majority of them fail and so towns have to decide how they're going to pay for stuff. Well, ultimately it'll be up to the people of Lakeville on you
know they everyone's experienced increases in their cost of living. It's a very hard time to ask for anything. Um, but at the end of the day, it's their vote. I think the communication is going to be key, right? I mean, they're going to have to make a decision. Higher
taxes or less services. Yep. Right. I mean, that's a choice everyone's going to have to make, but we just need to make it clear that that is the choice. Yeah. So, the last time um we had a fiscal cliff like this was 2008
2009. So, it was the 2009 school budget and they laid off how many people do you remember? Is it like 30? I think that it ended up being through retirement. I think that was a
couple of different scenarios, but I can't remember the date, but yeah. And then earlier than that, it was we had no police station for a year in the 90s. 90 94 to be exact. Yeah, I know that date
cuz I moved here. Um town meeting vote uh didn't vote the the budget as requested. Uh police department was cut. Uh state police uh ran the town of Lakeville for most of 1994.
question on enhancement. We can come back. Um fire between Mike and Andrew. What is your confidence that that 128 is correct for four? Because when we did the ARPA
money, it was 240. Are there been enough positive decreases in other budget line items and fire to give us confidence that number is going to work? Call backs and overtime specifically. Yeah. Yeah. This number is exactly taken from Chief O'Brien's submission that everyone was
CCed on. Um, so I, you know, have to defer to his expertise in firefighting with the overtime and and what he needs. Um, but that is the increase he provided with the four firefighters. The 28. Now, it's over the three. So, it's not 128 for four. That's without fringe benefits
as well. This is without fringe benefits. Yeah. So, that number is probably closer to like 200. The the fringe is right below it. It's the 54840. Um, and right now we transfer every quarter we transfer the fringe benefits are automatically charged to
the general fund. So every 3 months I do a general entry and I move them over to ARPA. So we're drawing down on ARPA, not just with the salaries but with the fringe and that's kind of, you know, divide that by three is is I'm sorry, divide that by four is kind of how I got I arrived there. It's about 13,000 every
quarter. So, um, so yeah, but that number could change if if two people who aren't on our health insurance leave and we hire two people who need family plans, that number could be drastically different. Um, so that's
what we know now. So, cuz they're all in singles now, right? That's what we were told. Three singles, one family. Three singles, one family. So, you could go up anywhere up to 60,000 more per month. That's correct. Wait, month or year? I'm sorry. Well, this is this would be three months at
like 13,000 if you will. Correct. So, yeah. 13 13 to 14. Stand plans about 22ish. So, times 4 is obviously 88. 88. Yeah. Yeah. So, that gets you closer to the 240. So, then maybe with over is there is there
an overtime reduction? I forget. I don't There was a reduction. Um I can't say if I couldn't hear you. I didn't hear the question. Oh, I'm sorry. I asked I asked what the overtime reduction number was cuz I didn't forgot my book at home. I think you said the fire should be electronically.
You pushed it down to 100 under that under that scenario for overtime. [Music] So, under the three um person one, it was 170. Okay. I think he pushed it down to 100 if it had four.
And then did he move the sick time coverage line as well? Yes. Pans. And then how about the contract holiday vacation coverage? Be all three of them. All
Yeah. All those lines came down a little bit. So here's where it was. Oh, do you have that? I think this is an old one. Those three together. 170 32. You pay 100 of it. 150. Okay. So that gets closer. Oh yeah, it does. I
just worry because of exactly what you said. Yeah. 240. How does that turn into anything less than 240? That's a big and you know that's a big with all due respect this particular budget's one that struggles year after year. Yes. So I just want to know that you guys are
comfortable with it. I mean is two an option? I think we've asked in the past and never gotten a straightforward answer like is there a compromise? Are there certain shifts where four be three will get by? And I we should I should have asked the chief who's here but is is two better
than four? I mean better than zero but not as good as four. Yeah. Right. I agree. I know there is one shift that it's usually less calls um you know for overnights and stuff but I want to say it was three to staff correct and not
two and I can't remember the reason I remember him like giving some really detailed answer about it being the number three but I I think everything's on the table I don't I wouldn't say I wouldn't say it's four or nothing like
that would be a a false dichotomy me. And he also, sorry, he he also did like the back of the napkin analysis, too, where like if we hire at the four, the overtime costs go way down and then the revenue goes way up. I mean, it's hard to put any confidence in those specific numbers, but like you could see them
generally moving that way. We've been at four for a year and I don't think revenues really gone crazy up, right? I mean, is has there been any inclination to that? Uh, yeah, close to 200,000. So he is he's on average taking
in about $103,000 a month which will be 1,236,000 is my estimate through June and I believe last year it was the actual was only 1,ion26,000 so it's up about $200,000. So um like
the maybe this is a dumb question but like why would adding somebody bring revenue up? Is it because they don't have to allow other towns another town to take that person to a hospital or is that where it comes from? Calls are calls, right? Yeah. The overtime goes down because they're not
calling people back and then they're able to send more people out on calls to get the ambulance revenue from that. I think that's how it was explained. We just didn't want to We just didn't want to raise the um revenue too high on those. So, we wanted to play it safe. Um I don't know if you
want to speak to the do aspect of it. Yeah. So basically you have to provide justification as to why your why our FY26 estimates would be higher than our FY25 actuals. Um I used the example of the park earlier. You had to basically
sell it to the state if you will provide a narrative provide justification that we had a new contract. Um, in this particular case, you'd have to maybe if we decide to raise rates or just show an analysis that we are on pace to collect $1.2 million, but um, in years past,
it's been 1,ion26,000 and lower. So, that's why I first passed, we were a little hesitant to go high because we weren't including those firefighters in the original appropriation. So, um, I originally had it at 1,ion50,000. Um, I feel confident going
up about 70 as I mentioned. Um and then that leaves us a little wiggle room um if if things don't stay on the same track they're going on for the rest rest of fiscal 25. But yeah, the state can step in and not you know not certify your tax rate if you've to balance your
budget um you know drastically inflated estimated revenue just to balance your budget. The state can say what's your what's your justification for doing so um and they can kind of roadblock your tax rate certification for that. So Mike, would you say if we even
considered three as the number or two as the number, would like 80,000 per be the right number like to, you know, impact wise to free cash? How much less free cash? Uh I'm not just because I'm not
wellversed because I'm so new and I'm obviously not a firefighter. I don't even know if I'd want to take a stab at answering that. Um I think yeah I'd rather defer something like that to Chief O'Brien just so I don't misspeak but um I mean in a perfect world right
we increased it 128991 you'd think that's divide that by four but that may not be the case depending on where they land on a salary chart so the fixed costs and and then the going up on the on the overtime delta with the overtime. Yeah that number there is only about 45,000 per you have to figure out the
savings also make up the real number. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, which we've been operating with four already. So, we should kind of know where our number is. That's why I just Yeah.
Madam Chair, what is the plan now? Um, so we're seeing this uh different scenarios. Are we bringing this back to the select board on the 28th for a vote? We could. I mean I I my my goal for tonight is to get an understanding of
what like town clerk salary like is that like something you guys are interested in or like is that just a total no like I want to get like an idea what what those would be and then bring maybe bring it back next week for a final so we want to vote on specific lines
for enhancements to talk or do we want to good because again this is the TA budget that had brought forward forward. So any changes to the TA budget would be incumbent on all of us to have a I mean
I'll I'll be vocal right now. I'm not going to support any budget that does not include that last enhancement. [Music] The assistant to the TA. It took me a minute, Brian. I'm like wait. Um I agree. And the reason I agree is
because everything else falls apart if there's not enough um staff in that office. Yeah, and I I did not put together a scenario where that stays in in the budget. So, um, as Andrew mentioned earlier, we can kind of pick and choose.
I put the planner back in. I don't know, you know, there was talk of consulting there. Um, so obviously you can get creative with the line items. Um, and obviously I'd be, if we're going to take a vote at a future meeting, I'd be happy to send this exact document to everyone. Um, so
that would be helpful. Mhm. and I can see it. Quick question. Do we have a recommendation from HR on the COA's enhancement request on whether that puts us to any complications with other employees and steps and whatnot? She
recommended going through the formal union process. Okay. First outside of this process. Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't have a problem funding it in the fall. It just has to go through cuz I'd hate to get it funded and then union denies it, right? And it's like, what are we doing with it, you know? So,
yeah. Okay. So, it can't I I must have been confused. I thought it had already gone through the union process before it came to the board. [Music] No, I would take that off the list.
I agree. I would take it off as well. Not that I want to, but No, but which one? Which one are we taking off? 14. COA. It hasn't cleared the union yet. No, I think it it could be ready for the fall.
Um I think I do it some someone told me along the way a budget is not truly final until the fall, right? So you can always come back and supplement it. Oh, absolutely. I've been advocating for um a consultant
rather than a full-time town planner for years for for Town of Lakeville. Um and I definitely think I hope that we decide to go that path at least for a couple of years to figure out what it is we really need. And um and I definitely think it
would bring that number way down. I don't know if we cut it. I don't disagree. I I think you know not uh even though we do have a job description like out there where we might be in in a position and I don't know I haven't checked in with Andrew this week but I
agree I think we could have some savings but I am concerned with the numbers that were presented to us from the planning board on the hourly wages for um for those type of services. I I'm not in the market to pay $200 an hour for, you
know, services that if we hire someone, even if we hired someone on a part-time basis, that would be significantly less. You know, my only totally getting off topic here, but I do think that uh we don't know what we don't know. And we're in such a we're such a weird spot here
in town that if we could get somebody that has a wider range of in of of learning for us to pick up on that that $200 will end up being well spent and then we can say this is what we know we need because right now we don't really know what we need. Well, we could have two tiers of service as well. We could
have too we can have some coverage and we could have some senior senior consulting coverage as well. Madam Chair, if I may, the um I believe the um planning board chair said that they were going to look at what projects specifically, you know, they needed to
have addressed that had already started that needed to, you know, be taken over the finish line. So, they could probably allocate some hours, peace hours to that to that. I think they're going to see things I think there's going to be things going on that they don't are not yet on the radar. Oh, yeah. You know,
for sure. Scary because you never know what's what projects are coming in. Mhm. Um, madam ch ask the town administrator uh to expand on the contract of services because I think this goes back to an idea you had that sounded really good if
this goes back to the grant stuff. Um, so this one Oh, that one. Oh, I was looking up top. Um, yeah. So, I met with a grant writer uh the one that just got the firefighter funds from Middle. Correct. On a recommendation from Noel Willow. Actually, I met with um met with
Stephanie Hall, the grant writer for Midbar. Mhm. Um and she was interested. Um she got $6.7 million from Midbar last year with only uh like a match on Midbar side of 400,000. So that's huge. They got a safer grant, park grant. Mhm.
Community one stop. All the stuff we're looking to get, she helped get. And now she is offered um I figured this probably be a conversation for Monday night upcoming $100 an hour probably $10,000 per year. We only pay if we
actually get a grant. So that's a great contract if that's what you got. Great contract. Um so I I met with her last week. She talked the lingo pretty well. Like no I've been following I've been following all the stuff that's going on in middle for the last two years. And
even before that, they had another good grant writer, Bob. Bob Sylvia used to do a bunch of their grants and get lots of grants as well. Yep. So, I figured she's a good investment. 10,000 potentially for millions of dollars. Um, figured
that'd be a win. Definitely, easily. Um, so it's an enhancement obviously at this point, but money well spent, you know, I think so, too. I think it's a needed. Madam chair, I look at this if we're playing the, you know, where do you throw the darts at? I mean, if we
say let's let's time out on the planner for now, which I agree with the others that said so, look at contracted services, you can put together the assistant ATA, contracted services for grant writing, the town clerk increase, which I think we've all said is been
overdue for a long time, the EU stipens. There's a lot that you can combine in that one line. So, would everyone have a a taste to move the planner uh dollar amount down to a into into a
contracted services line for planning services cuz I don't want to decimate the line. I want someone there. I want someone supporting the planning board. I I'm I'm fully behind it. I actually have a couple meetings this week about different things with it. So, Okay.
Yeah. I don't, you know, there is a difference between full-time plus benefits and then contracted services. I would like to see contracted services funded to your to your point, you know, at least for a time. Yep. And to be able to make sure we are taking care of the
planning board. They get left out an awful lot. Oh, it's the most important thing. I I can't I've advocated for six, seven years now. So, yeah, they get really important. They get to short stick a little bit. She actually doesn't do, I guess, grant management, which isn't a huge deal. I figured she would
probably assist someone to do that. And then potentially longterm that that person she trains would be the grant writer. Um, so potentially the assistant to the TA could be trained by Stephanie and then that person's applying in the future. Don't Don't rule out interns. We
like a good intern. Yeah, that too. That too. [Music] I don't know if it's easier just to go down the line and just see which one you guys like or not. Do you mind zooming making that a little bit bigger? I don't really need to see the first two
columns. More consolidated lists here, too. Smaller. Yeah, there we go. So, the first two are required. Um, the contractual. Contractual. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for. Um, so those two are
definitive feedback from the select board. Um, is that a definite? Yes, from me. Yes, for me. Yes, as well. Yes. Yeah.
Um, we actually took down the dog food line. Yep. Um, we figured we would just take it out of donations. Um, the next one is contractual. That's the principal assessor's salary starting July
1st. Um, the contracted services tied to that would be the commercial industrial appraisals. Um, any objections to those two? First one is tough to object to. The second one potential and this is what we
talked about last week when I had mentioned we'll just kind of shift the expense up. Um that's essentially what we're doing here. So it's the net is about 23,000. Madam Chair, is that what we're saying about the um contracted assessive services that we're thinking it's about
10,000 for that additional correct? Okay. Yep. All right. I just wanted to make sure I understood the Yep. the amount there. Okay. Um the enhancement one for the COA, we've kind of talked about not doing
that. Maybe not until the fall. Push that off till fall. Um I'm assuming they can get through the union process by then. I would think so. Yeah, I would think so. Um the town planner we just spoke about. Um I can bring that back next week when
we vote on it. Well, that some dollar wise on what we should probably put in the pot. I did find any old quotes that planning got and sent those to Andrew just we had something to work with. The the 200 there was one that was crazy and
one or two that were much Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I can bring that next week and yeah, but like I said, we probably want tiered coverage where the projects um you know, the the hardcore projects that require the expertise versus you know,
some extra help and some extra guidance. Yep. The next one's obviously the big one. Um I guess what? Okay. I'd like to see if you could try to get some information from
the chief three versus four. And to me day's point, we've gone through a year with four firefighters. We should know I granted I understand this but we should have a good idea what
four costs, right? So, um I will speak just from remembering on what the chief had said and why we don't have as clear of accounting on that. Um he had such high turnover on there that it created
its own type of animal that didn't allow him to take a really good look at it. But that's me just recquoting what he had said at the meeting and that that's why the numbers are less favorable um in his in his opinion.
Did any of us come away thinking that that problem is gone? No, that's my question. Do we do exit interviews in the town when people leave? We offer them. They're not optional. Yeah, they're not mandatory. I don't think you can mandatory. It's optional and I I
don't think mo many people take up take us up on it. I would guess not. But the to your point, the turnover rates are alarming the way that they were presented. They were much more severe than I thought they were. Um and unlike
the police where it was clear like why people were leaving, um it was really clear. He's like went to the state police, went to the state police, went to a city. You can see that progression where it's a salary salary salary and but that's just the bane of small towns
everywhere. They they grow people and then the people grow and move into cities and and uh more dangerous jobs and get paid for the more dangerous jobs. Um and then they come back uh when they're we're tired of that.
But there is a very concerning trend and we don't over the turnover. Yeah. Okay. Because the rule of thumb in business and and you guys can all correct me if I'm misquing, but it's somewhere around 30 to 40% of your annual salary is lost when you have
turnover. So, right, that's it's right in that range, right? It could even be higher. Great. So, the retention becomes a focus if you've got a budgetary crisis. So, that to me is a think something that should be looked at. Question that maybe members Carbonia,
Chair Candido know. Didn't the select board vote a few years ago that um firefighters hired had to sign that contract saying if they left in a certain period of time they' pay back? Yes. Yes. But the chief at his presentation said he's not even having them sign that anymore. You are correct. I did hear that. I did not follow up on
that. But I did hear that now that you're saying I think he said people refuse to sign it walk away. Right. And but I thought I thought I heard him say that and then he then he said so I don't even bother now. I could have misheard. No, I think this year I think you are right. So again, that's another concern.
Anybody that is then hired and not signing that, you know, we're not recouping all that training money for them to get certifications and hours and hours and dollars. So your OT goes up, your training budget gets basically wasted. Yep. I mean, I think we need to take another look at I realize he's a
strong chief. Yep. But if the select board voted on that for policy, I'd be interested when. And Andrew, would you mind going through that? I don't know if you have any dates when that might have been done or not, but if it was during his tenure or previous chief's tenure.
It was within his tenure because prior to his tenure, chiefs were allowed to do everything themselves. Um, in 2019, I moved to have a director of HR and all of the functions of like the hiring and
the paperwork, etc., and background checks ended up going there. should be somewhere around uh early mid 2019. Okay. And the um vote I believe was not this past budget, the one before
because it was a um a retention um opportunity for him to try to retain you know candidates. So it was an initiative to try to reduce that turnover. I'd love to see any more documentation on previous years turnover too because that
was only the the last nine months, you know, now I mean there was the issue or the concern of the the condition of the you know the facility which we're already in progress of you know rectifying that. So, um, if it's for
other reasons, you know, it would, and I'm sure the salary, you know, could be, you know, a part of it, too. But, sure, but people don't usually leave within the first year for a salary. They sign up, they they have a salary, they know the salary. That's usually a point, you know, on the exit interviews. I mean,
yeah, I think anytime that you start to see a pattern or if there's um a higher number of of turnover, there's, you know, probably something that you know, can be looked at. I mean, I know we're here to try to help solve the issue, not
create any addition. No, but it becomes a budget. It becomes a budget conversation and it becomes a budget line conversation on, you know, how we're funding this and and what's being done. So, I'm going to allow this conversation to end and wrap up and um
Andrew uh I'd love you to check in with HR as well um and put something together for us and then we can maybe have a discussion. Okay. And we'll probably have it
um executive session discussion. Okay. Um, any more feedback on the four or just I'd like to see the breakdown for the three as well. Just just, you know, just so we get all the facts in front of us as much as they can be. I'd like a two
as well. Um, you know, can can things go okay with two and then when we're in the fall, we can adjust. Um, because it's like as we whether it's two, three or four, something else is going to be below the cut line and can we live with what's below the cut line or not? So, my concern, and Andrew, maybe our new um
grant writer can tell us this, if we're funding it, does that lessen our ability to get grants for it? If we're currently funding, so if we're currently funding at four four more firefighters, and then we're like, we need more firefighters,
but we're funding it. Does that does that negate kind of our proposition and make us come from a point of um a less strength point? Not that I want to leverage, you know, safety over,
you know, grants, but I just didn't know if it makes it more likely or less likely that we'll be grant funded because ideally, how long is that stay for ground? Is it 5 years? 3 years. Three years would be a nice kick the can
down the road time frame for funding firefighters. My understanding is that our last attempt at the safer grant included the fact that we were not meeting national standards by having four people per shift and the safer grant would have brought us up to that as well as it was
four people at the due to be laid off because there was one time funding used. So the I don't want to put words in his mouth, but my understanding was we thought we had a good chance because we were a they were going to get laid off. We could keep them. Yeah. And it would get us to the the four per shift, but
then we still lost it, which seems odd. Okay. Yeah, I can do that research and get back to everyone. Much appreciated. Um the fixed cost is tied to that cuz that's the um insurance and pension on Mhm. those four. Um, the next one is two
police officers. I didn't really hear too much about that. It was very quietly asked for. I don't even actually remember that. Um, I would like to hear a little bit more about it and get a little bit more about, you know, is this a a is this a
safety concern? What's not getting done right now or what will be done with these additional roles? Um, and should there be a fixed cost line for them as well or is that um I believe that pulled
in is not pulled into those. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But it just kind of flowed right by um as far as additional certainly wasn't the table. No. No. Is it is it something that's been like asked for like year over year and it's I don't
remember it last year. I think he's made it the last few years. I don't think it made it to finance committee. Yeah. Do you remember? No, I don't believe that was that brought up by Bob or anything like that. We haven't been
fully staffed in the police for quite a while and we're like finally there. So maybe he hasn't really pounded the table as much because he didn't even have a full staffing compliment at the time. But I would love to learn more. M I thought that's what he said when he was here that we were staffed fully staffed.
That's what my understanding was as well. I don't recall and ask for anything more. No, I think with Chief Perkins, he has a global view on the budget. He's not just looking at his own budget. No. And I appreciate that, but we do want to hear we don't want to just be like myopic and
and only go for um you know what's being told. We want to make sure we're setting a standard because whenever we have more firefighters, it requires more police officers to answer those same calls. So, um, you know, that could be the reason
like his reasoning could very well be predicated on if we have more people going out on fire calls, we need more police to support going out on those same calls. So, I'm I'm not sure what the what the context was. Um, then obviously the other part of that was the
dispatcher. Um, and then increased OT training. I think he he had spoken to us at the joint Freetown Lakeville meeting about that need. Yep. Mhm. Um, would you want additional information for those
two as well or if there was a way to tear perhaps that increase of the OT training um over the next three years as opposed to one time hit. if there was a way to build on that
because I know that everybody in the room at that point was, you know, aware of the, you know, what the importance of of what it was that they were looking to do. Y So, if there was a way that we could tear that,
um, might be helpful. Okay. I thought he said he needed the dispatcher. Did I miss I seem to recollect a conversation about that. Yeah, it was a part-time dispatcher. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the That's a very goal. 54. Yeah. Yeah. For part one
part time. One part time. Um I'm inclined to support. That might actually include the fixed cost associated with those now that I'm doing the math in my head on the officers and the dispatcher. Yeah, because it's like so a part-time dispatcher costs more
than a full-time firefighter. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, that I think it might include some sort of training or fixed costs associated with it. I can I can find out. Thank you. Um and then obviously we the contracted services for the grant writer. I think that's a slam
dunk. Okay. You know, 10,000 for a possible million. I'm just impressed at the not paying unless we get the the grant. That's okay. What's that for? contracted services. Grant writer. Oh, sorry. Grant. She said that's like standard practice in the industry. Yeah.
I don't know if that's true. All of them. I love it. And then the last one is the assistant to the town administrator. Yeah. We want to keep you around, Andrew. We don't want you burning out in a in a bright flame. Mhm. Now, um there's an impending retirement
in a different department coming up. So, I don't know if that can be kind of like a dual role. between my department and that department, but we can explore it. No, don't spread yourself, friend. I know. I know what it's like. Um, that will maybe
be envisioned in the future as well. But yeah, I'm disincclined to say yes. I'm curious what Mr. Tally man's doing over there in the corner if he's adding up. That's it. He's ming away over there. Um,
do we want to look at anything else on the other ones? Is there something? So, this is the master list, I think, of all the Okay, that is everything. Good. Does anyone want to revisit anything that we can talk about now or is everything um, you know, we're going to
get some more data on firefighters, on police, on fixed costs, um, and what was the other thing? Town planner. Town planner. Yeah. and additional um information on turnover. I I have a comment on one thing on there
that's only sort of related, the dog officer item. I noticed they got another big donation of supplies from somebody, which was great. The kids raised, you know, got it instead of like birthday money. How do we get the word out that like it's not that we don't want your dog food anymore, but if you're going to
bring it, got to go through it should be this outreach. Just so I don't want to feel like we're wasting anything. I'm sure he'll still use it. I think that's a fantastic use of Facebook right there. Definitely. Don't be afraid to post on
Lake Helping Lake. I just don't know anyone that doesn't like the dog posts. It's the mayor of town. It is. He's the real He's the shadow government. Was there any apprehension to using that cap uh capital stabilization account to
kind of pull all this off? Like there's not a lot of there's not a lot of fat like to come from. Madam Chair, the only thing that I've had anybody ask about is a a $75,000 irrigation well. If we're if we're having issues with retaining
personnel and we have and we have a budget issue, why are we spending $75,000 to water grass? So, it costs like $12,000 a year to do it. So, um but do you have to water it? I guess not. I
understand that the service the service comes into your into your property just like it does if you have electrical service. You pay a minimal fee to have that there. whether you draw electricity or not. And so the question has been that if we have $75,000 I think it's a
valid question $75,000 is in effect a body and so if what what is more important green grass or or somebody in town do we want to have a clover initiative where we plant clover on like
because honestly like it's the water consumption of the just like you said the grass that is the problem. Yep. There beautiful dry escapes out there. Um yeah, you know, and it's just it's just one of those things it seems to and and a couple comments came from people
in the building community and you know, I had discussions with them about what it costs to actually do something in a Yes. in a community as opposed to doing it at your at your home. Unless someone wants to dig it for us. But I mean, it's crabrass now. It's going to stay
crabrass if we don't water it. I I I absolutely agree with what you're saying, but I do notice the item says irrigation, weld, and sight work. What is the and site work part of that? Is that um I think part I don't know the technicalities of it, but I think the
whole kind of site is not well done. Okay. From the initial construction, but I don't know that for sure. And I recall uh Franklin mentioning that he would have to have people in there and strip it down and replace soil and and um you
know seed and so forth in order to get it green and productive. But so we knew that back in 2020 and we went back to the builders and the landscapers and the irrigation people. They were supposed to
remedy all of those things while it was under warranty. I don't know what ended up happening in 21. I don't know. But we ended up getting an OCR allocation for it. Um I think there was miscommunication on that and we only got 60 total between the library and police
station. It's really like 120 between the two. So um 60 is being used right now for the library as well through federal funds and then this is like the remainder tied to it. So that's ARPA funds for the library. This
is uh capital stabilization. Um I can go talk to Chief Brokerens again. I think he said this potentially one we could cut if we had to and maybe it's a good point. We scope it. I think member Hunt brings up a great point. I mean even if we just push it to fall till we have some more information. Not to mention
you can't plant anywhere past June anyways. You're just going to grow crab grass again. There are project delays on that too on this and the library. So in the fall wouldn't be the worst idea. I feel like there might have been a missed opportunity with some of the
opera stuff, you know. Oh, I I see it. I see it all over the place. But, you know, they gave us 5 minutes. Don't feel bad. You did an amazing job. Oh my goodness. Explosion. The shovel ready by a Tuesday at 12:00. Goods are due. Yeah.
Um, Barbara, since you opened up the capital planning budget, I was curious about the town website, we have $30,000 allocated for that. Is that something that we can wait on? I would go no on that. I would think the accessibility and the functionality is
going to involve more people in town. if we can be a little bit better and there's some functionality I'm hoping that we find about um minute taking that could actually save dollars. Um, there
was also, um, I'm probably gonna get this number wrong, but Acidic Plus right now is offering something ridiculous like 70 or 80% off to do the transition. Um, which is that 30,000 would cover. Um, I think if you know, if we defer it,
we could potentially end up paying more to do it later, just like we did with the like we did with like everything. We did we did everything. Okay. [Music] You came in late, but I took off the sidewalk plow. Okay.
Sorry for being late. No [Music] problem. The ladder truck. We have no choice. We have to get that right. I'm sorry. That's correct. 175. That's actually comment on that. um the town
account was that general law anything helpful that was in that old article. Yeah, it was very helpful actually. Yeah. And it it it checked the box. It was allowable, which I wouldn't second guess under. Just cuz you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. But yeah, I mean it is a good point, right? At least it does kind of scream
operational, but uh definitely was helpful and it's legit. So, all right. Anything else? on requested enhancements. I'm trying to read it [Music]
one. Oh, we could talk this to death, but I think we're good with that. Um, do we have any new business before the board? Anything? Any new business? Any old
business? Ryan, I can see this. I'm just trying to think. No, I think I'm good. All right. Thanks for checking that. Yeah, I saw the face, Madam Chair. Yes. Um, we have a resident who may want to speak. How
can I help you? Come on up to the mic. I'm just on parks, but I'm not speaking as a parks member. I'm speaking as a resident. Thank you for the clarification. Um, and I just, um, someone who knows a lot more about finance and they've lived in Lakefield
for long time, years and years, asked me the question about the budget problems. They said, "Why don't we have retail CBD in Lakeville because you could get
3% off of that?" Um, and I'm not talking about a smoke shop. I'm talking about a very high-end um when my husband was diagnosed with cancer, his oncologist said to him, "Go to We went to Panacea." Yeah. In
Middleboro. My goodness, do they make some bucks in that place? And I would love to see You're 100% right. It's It's 3%. It's good money. We had three different um HCAs at at one point that
all wanted to do retail and none of them ended up doing it. Um can that be revisited? We did send out a invitation to was it invitation to RFI RFI for other people and we did get one person
coming back and we are actually in talks with them. I mean, I don't know if you've ever been into that shop, but I would recommend all of you just just take a field trip. I don't know. That would be a newspaper story. I think I think you do have to give them your
driver's license because they need to know who's going in there. But, um, I mean, there are people with PTSD who are prescribed it. Oncologists prescribe it for people getting chemotherapy. And um there's a whole number of diseases that are being
treated and all of that money is going to grow. Yeah, we had um two uh or possibly three um requests in front of us. One was for a delivery. One was for what do you call the other one? It's not
a delivery. It's a um courier. Courier and the other one is retail. um the delivery and the retail would it would be revenue and the courier would be no revenue for us. Couriers, you know, those invol involves more traffic. We
already have traffic problems here, but but I don't think you know buying something every day. I don't think that would add to it. But I do appreciate um the suggestion and the board knows and we actively or not this board, the previous board had actively sought out
once we saw nothing else was coming to fruition. Um, I would love to see it happen for Lakeville. I'd love to see all that money stay in Lakeville. I will say this is just to add to this before the conclusion. I think that when all of that was happening in town, the projections of what we thought we were
going to get were very different than what we actually ended up getting. Well, they were predicated on ret having retail um as or whatever taxes we were going to get and the state changed the rules and all the formulas. It's just like affordable housing. It's like you think you're doing it, you think you're putting in a 40r and you're going to get
money and you're not. It's like so I don't know how it's working. The state is like Lucy and we're like I I worked in that industry on a national level for a while and um there is a lot of money in it. It's a it's a huge growth industry growth industry
issues as well remember Lorraine saying increasing revenue streams. Yep. There you go. Y just just a suggestion anyway. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. Noel. All right. Make
a motion to adjourn. Make a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn forward to 7:22. [Music] Got a motion in a second. Roll call. I do. I carbon I. Thank you everybody.
Again, guys. 722.