WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=A0692gkkuoE

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: A0692gkkuoE):
- 00:00:31: ZBA Meeting Call to Order: Turner Hearing Continued
- 00:05:53: Turner Presents Evidence; Activity Dropped After Complaint
- 00:06:44: Turner's Attorney Clarifies Zoning Laws, Commercial Use Definition
- 00:13:57: Turner Plays Video Evidence; Commercial Firewood Operation Impact
- 00:16:57: Board Discusses; Proving Business; Enforcing Zoning Violations
- 00:19:56: Turner States Desired Resolution; Cease And Desist Request
- 00:25:05: Board Questions Turner; Six Bullets; Enforceability; Research
- 00:31:16: Public Comment; Turner's Neighbor Testifies; Zoning Issue
- 00:32:54: Public Comment; Neighbors Suffer; Loud Machinery; Limited Use
- 00:37:42: Public Comment; Conveyor Belt Evident; Commercial Scale Proof
- 00:39:38: Public Comment; Harassment, Toxicity; Quality Of Life Impact
- 00:41:24: Public Comment; Conveyor Belt Only Commercial Use; Loud Noise
- 00:47:48: Public Comment; Neighbor Negotiates; Ineffective; No Resolution
- 00:51:50: Public Comment; Municipalities Enforce Zoning Bylaws; No Sale Needed
- 00:54:19: Turner's Closing Remarks; Purpose Of Appeal; Legal Basis
- 01:00:33: Board Discussion; Commercial Use; Equipment; Enforcement
- 01:01:53: Board Discusses; Parameters; Exporting Restriction; Legal Review
- 01:05:52: Further Board Discussion; Noise; Bad Neighbor; Commercial Limiting
- 01:07:45: Turner Suggests; Findings For Adoption; Spelled-Out Limitations
- 01:10:08: Board Debates; Turner's Adoption Requests; Bobcat Unimportant
- 01:13:18: Legal Complications; Wood Volume Threshold; Friends Given; Solution
- 01:16:55: Board Reaches A Conclusion; Desist With A Narrow Scope
- 01:17:59: Motion Passes Unanimously; Turner Parameters; Good Neighbor
- 01:19:16: Rubido Cornerstone Church Hearing; Sign Replacement; LED Upgrade
- 01:23:15: LED Board; Sign Complies To Recommendations From Zoning
- 01:27:02: Audience Comments; LED Brightness, Congested Intersection
- 01:31:57: Board Approves Special Permit; Sign Upgrade For The Church
- 01:33:29: Campanelli Addition Request; Industrial Zone; Welch Drive
- 01:36:55: Board Asks Questions; Concerns; Parking Space, And Height
- 01:39:18: Board Approved, Special Permit; Conditional Planning Concom Review
- 01:40:18: Meeting Minutes Approved; Next Meeting Date Confirmed; Adjournment


Part: 1

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Okay. Good evening everyone. Call to order the zoning board of appeals meeting for Thursday, March 26 at the Lake Public Library. Uh our first uh first I guess first question is other than Lake Ham, is anyone recording this meeting?

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Anyone indicating so? will assume the answer is no. The first agenda item is the turnout hearing which is continued uh appeal from the building excuse me appeal from the decision of the building inspector zoning enforcement officer relative to business activity at the

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residential in the residential district at 11 school street. I believe we have someone who's recusing himself from this. >> Yes, I am. >> All right. just recusing himself. >> Do not move my ear closer. >> I will speak under the lava. How does

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that sound? >> I hear himself. >> Well, why don't you come up front and see if you can hear me real well? That's it. >> Can everyone else hear me fine? >> No, I Yeah, I think I think it's carrying. I just think unfortunately >> yeah I don't even know how how well

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these mics carry but um okay so we have the turner hearing continued um oops here I think I saw Mr. Turner >> hey Paul how are you

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>> good thank you so we've received uh some additional information uh from Mr. Turner and correct me if I'm wrong. I believe you are not represented um anymore. You're handling the appeal yourself. Correct. >> Correct.

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>> Okay. So, obviously you provided a bunch of information to the board which has been on file down at our planning office. I did, excuse me, I did reach out to the building commissioner. Uh obviously

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the last time we met on this was January 15th and we had a number of uh residents people in the area um at the meeting as well who talked about uh the activities going on there. And again I sent an

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email over to Nate. I'm going to read his response into the record uh just cuz we I wanted to get a feeling of so that the board would know what was uh what has transpired if anything through his office since then. So um I asked him for an update. He replied back uh good

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afternoon John. While I anticipated anticipated an additional request for zoning enforcement shortly after the January 15, 2026 zoning board of appeals meeting, I have yet to receive anything. Since that meeting, I have spoken to the owner of 11 School Street on multiple occasions and they have significantly

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limited the production of firewood on their property. Understanding the sensitivity here, I have been monitoring the subject property from both School Street and Lechwood Drive between two to three times per week without any without any personally witness production of

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firewood on the subject property. There have been a couple of neighbors that have been very helpful documenting activity on site and doing so with a keen eye on the amicable solution rather than a heavy hand. The information on activity is as follows. March 5th, 2026,

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1 to two hours conveyor only, no indication of chainsaw operating. On March 9th, 45 minutes conveyor only, 15 minutes chainsaw being operated, 1 hour in total. It is vital to note that the owner of 11 School Street has not been directed to

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stop firewood production for personal use on their property and provided they are in compliance with the board of health noise regulations, they would be allowed to continue that activity despite it being crystal clear to me that there is no current zoning violations at 11 school street. I would

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recommend that the zoning board of appeals entertain a continuence for the a month or two so we can preserve the applicant's petition to appeal. respect the other neighbors concerns and see what happens with the nicer weather. In perfect world, everyone would recognize the significant resources converted to

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the compliance and negative impact of the neighborhood relationships and work together to put this complaint behind us. I will continue to monitor the situation regardless of what is decided to do what I can to help amend fences. So, understandably so, I guess

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obviously, as everyone is well aware, um, we've had quite the circumstances as far as weather goes over this past winter. So, I think, um, and I tend to agree with with Nate's position, and I'm going to let you talk

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to Dr. Paul. Um, I'm not sure that it's a fair represententation over the past month and a half as to whether someone really is or isn't operating a business there. Obviously, it's kind of tough to to do anything after 3 ft of snow has fallen. Um, and

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I'm not sure if that's the reason why there haven't been significant complaints made over the past month and a half or he really has scaled back and is not doing uh what he was doing before. So, um, at this point, uh, do we

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have any other comments or, uh, questions or anything we'd like to bring to light from the board? Or if not, I'm going to ask Mr. attorney Monk if he has anything additional to that. >> I know for that

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call. Paul Turner, one ledgewood drive. For the record, I want to present what I have. um the activity at 11 school street in direct correlation to the day that I

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filed the complaint the activity dropped down to nothing. So it's a common practice to just stop by they're under scrutiny. So I want to present what I have. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mr. Chairman and member of the members of the board, thank you for the

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opportunity to let me speak tonight. Before I begin, I want to clarify two points that are important for the board to have in mind as you hear the evidence tonight. I've been offering these only to help the board stay focused on the correct legal

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standards under chapter 48. There was discussion last time about the needing to prove a business or a point of sale. I've looked very carefully at Massachusetts zoning law and that is not the standard. Zoning does not regulate business transactions. It regulates the

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use of the land. So the question for the board is not whether a business exists or where money changes hands. The question is simply what is the use of the property based on the equipment, the setup and the activities on the land.

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That is the standard the courts use and is the standards chapter 4A uses. I have not found any Massachusetts case requiring proof of a business or a point of sale to classify a use or enforce the bylaw.

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I also want to address the issue of the current activity level occurring at 11 school street at present because I expect the subject will be raised tonight. I have observed the commissioner driving through the neighborhood the past couple of weeks.

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The decline in activity at 11 School Street directly correlates the moment I file this appeal. That is not a change in use. That is a change in behavior because the property is under scrutiny. Massachusetts courts are unanimous that

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the non-use alone is never enough to extinguish a use or cure a violation. A pause use is still a use and a dormant violation is still a violation. Quesar is consistent. Town of Orange versus

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Sheay non-use does not extinguish a use. Kher enterprises even multi-year inactivity does not end a use. Sonia Lancot 2022. Non-use alone is never abandonment.

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Harvard verse Maxant use uses defined by character impact not frequency seit vers brainy zoning regulates the physical setup not the operator's schedule so even if the commission is driven by

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not seen activity that does not change the zoning classification does not eliminate the need for enforcement the equipment the setup the operation are still present the use has not changed only the timing of the operation has.

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Massachusetts courts have never held that temporary inactivity extinguishes or cures a zoning violation. In fact, the courts are unanimous that non-use alone is never enough. A use continues unless

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there is both non-use and clear intent to abandon. And nothing like that exists here under controlling case law. This is a commercial operation, not an extinguished one. The board must act even if the violation is dormant because

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the use still exists and will resume the moment scrutiny fades. With those two points clarified, explain why I'm here. As you know, I'm no longer represented by attorney Maki, but I want the board to know that all the legal representations that I'm offering

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tonight as a lay person have been verified and are listed on the citation page in the submitted packet. I can also offer a separate citation page for this opening statement if necessary. I'm here representing myself and the general neighborhood to present the

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zoning basis for reinstating the cease and desist order 11 school street and to request clear findings that will allow the building commissioner to enforce the bylaw consistently and effectively. There has been a critical misunderstanding. The zoning issue before you is not whether a business is

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being conducted. Excuse me. Massachusetts courts consistently hold that zoning regulates the activities occurring on the land itself. Sorry, not business arrangements, not point of sale and not whether a business

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entity even exists. As the appeals court held in credential insurance company vers Westwood, a use may be commercial in nature even if no business is formally conducted. The character of the activity, not the presence of a business enterprise controls.

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The activities occurring at 11 School Street. Year-round processing, staging, loading, and exporting of large quantities of firewood constituting commercial use in a residential district far exceeding the accessory residential use that is allowed. The neighborhood has witnessed long

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durations of firewood processing using commercial grade equipment, operation of a commercial conveyor belt, loading of a Ford F550 commercial dump truck with multiple cords of processed wood, repeated exporting of processed product,

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often before dawn and under a top. These activities are not incidental or customary to residential firewood use. They are commercial operations. Clear findings are necessary. Without them, enforcement becomes impossible.

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The neighbors may witness for hours of processing but be unable to document the export because it occurs at times chosen to avoid observation. A covered load could be misrepresented as trash or brush despite the neighborhood have just witnessed for hours the processing and

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loading. There is no residential reason to load processed wood into a commercial truck unless it's being exported. The same is true for the conveyor. and common sense tells us that a conveyor is not needed for incidental residential use.

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I respectfully request the board to adopt the following findings. Activities on the property constitute commercial use exceeding the allowed accessory for residential use. Loading a commercial dump truck with processed firewood is a commercial use. Operating

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a commercial conveyor belt is a commercial use. Exporting processed firewood documented or not is a commercial use. Commercial scale processing exceeds accessory residential use. These activities are enforceable by the building commissioner. I

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respectfully request that the board reinstate the cease and disorder and adopt these findings to provide clear and enforceable guidance. These actions will help restore the residential character of the neighborhood and give the commissioner the tool to tools needed to end this

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ongoing problem. At this time, I want to play a two-minute video for the record. Please keep in mind this clip's only 2 minutes long, but imagine trying to work from home, which a number of people in the neighborhood do, or just enjoying out in

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your yard, hanging out while listening to this for hours at a time. It happens on weekdays, weekends, mornings, afternoon, evenings. After the video, I briefly walk through the submitted packet and then be open for questions.

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Play the video, please. 12:205, 1:20 in the afternoon. Calm down. That's inside my house. >> Inside my house. It's a cab

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again. Now it's only 2 minutes. So this goes on for two, four, six, eight. sometimes 10 hours morning time during the week. If I come home, the neighbors will call me that work come home. I come home, it's ripping at 11:00. It could go

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on a Saturday, a Sunday. He doesn't care. I'm going to do my best to go through the the packet as quick as I can. And um >> yeah, >> I'll move along. Sure. Go ahead. a second. So, um I'm speaking for myself,

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not for the rest of the >> Sure. >> Um >> you know, last time we met in in January, um we had to reduce healthcare and and I don't think the board is is is stuck or discounting the fact that if

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you can't get the receipt, and I know we talked about that initially, like let's see the receipt, let's see the money exchange in Kansas. It's just what we get. I'm not so sure that that's literal anymore what we're stuck on. >> Okay. >> Um I I think and again these guys would

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correct me and keep me honest here, but I think the fact that if they really is truly conducting a business operation, I don't think this board is is is necessarily going to say no. Well, until you show us the smoking gun like I think it was referred to that it's that that's not something we're not going to turn

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around and put the cease to desist or or advise the building commission to put it back in place and overturn him. Uh I think ultimately the goal here is and correct me if I'm wrong, the goal is he needs to stop doing it from a from a business standpoint. Um we can't

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my belief and and I can confirm this with town council. We can't stop somebody from having a chainsaw on their property, from having a tent wheel dump, from >> No one is saying that. >> I know. Just just bear with me. Go ahead. We we we can't do that. Ultimately, what we want to do is stop

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that from to your point going on 10 hours a day, going on multiple days on the weekends. It getting to the point where there really is a commercial type operation happening that is impacting the rest of the neighbors and not operating within the zoning within that

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area, which It wouldn't be if it was to that extent and it may have been at that extent. That is the ultimate goal I believe. Now if if in fact if in effect the last two months it has drastically >> come down and and I agree with you wholly you know you turn around and

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someone's watching you're going to correct your behavior. >> Right. >> So the reason which and I agree with Nate's thought here is I can't imagine if he really is wanting to continue to operate a business. It would be tough for anybody to do anything outside over, you know, the month of March especially,

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right? To to some degree, but it's the fact that we're continuing this and it's going to keep him in check and it's going to be two calls over a month of him using it for an hour here and an hour there. Um, we we're kind of getting to where we want to be. If if he turns

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around and we come back two months from now or a month from now and all of a sudden he's back to the same routine again, then that's going to put this board in a better position. Keep in mind, we can't really regulate what he did 6 months ago. >> I disagree. >> So,

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case law says that you can. >> Let me finish my presentation. >> Let me ask you this, Paul. What are we going to do? Literally, >> it's it's nothing to do with a It's nothing to do with a business. >> How do you want us to enforce this? What is What is the resolution you want? Maybe that's the best way, but

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>> All right, fine. We'll go. Right. What do you want? What do you want to have happen? >> So if if we have a deceased assist in place with the six findings that I requested, >> so loading a commercial truck, >> a commercial truck, an F550, it's a 19,000lb truck with three four quarter

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wood. There's no accessory use calling for that. There's no reason why the truck would be loaded and exported. The month of November, I documented 13 loads, 40 cords of wood left that property. That's a commercial use. I

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don't care if it's a business. I don't care if he's given it away. I >> understand that. But but what what do we want to do? I want that in. So we need the cease to desist need this the six findings in place. So Nate has the rules. So if that truck if when he loads the truck, it takes four or five hours

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of listening. So we call up, email Nate, he's loading the truck. Right at that point, you can say that's a $300 fine. You can't load the truck and export it from the property. It's just like if if you're in a bank and some guy next to you has a ski mask on and a gun and the teller and he's asking the teller, "Fill

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up the bag." You don't have to wait till the guy goes to the sidewalk to say he's robbing the bank. He's loading the truck for one reason only, to export it over and over and over. So if he wants to cut wood, everyone in

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50 75% of the people in Lakeville have a chainsaw. That's fine. I have one. But if you cut wood for your own property, it doesn't it's not a year round project. >> So you >> So he needs to stop, >> right? Which it appears he has over the past >> it snowed this high for once again. Soon

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as someone's under scrutiny, what do they do? They run and hide. >> No, I I agree with you. Okay. I said, >> so what I need what I want this >> Well, do you agree that I said that's probably part of the reason why he's not >> I get it. I get it. So, what I want is

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Nate needs he said that he can't enforce it because he can't get a point of sale. He was incorrect to that. Point of sale is a is a business uh business law theory. It has nothing to do with zoning. Absolutely nothing.

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And >> we're not trying off track what I wanted to to come across, but we don't have to prove that they're running the business. A business is not allowed to run in a residential zone. He's exceeding the accessory use. So a

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house takes >> Okay. A house uh >> a house I mean takes like you know seven, eight cords of wood. So let him produce 78. >> What is it you you said you this is what you want at this point? We're we're not

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doing anything. You So you want >> a cease and desist back in place with the six findings that are in my in my packet that I proposed. >> So all we can do is overturn Nate's decision. >> No, you can't. No, you can't. You can you can auding

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his decision. Correct. >> You can audit findings. You can overturn a decision. Fier gives you that right. >> So you did you want us to overturn the decision with the findings that you want to specifically say what he can't use a

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truck. He can't load a truck. He can't >> use a conveyor belt. That's correct. >> So he's restricted from doing any of that on his property. >> That's right. If he wants to cut his own wood that's fine. >> Keep it on the property. >> How does he What if he wants to put wood in a oversized truck to break his

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parents? And again, I'm not saying >> Okay. So, so that incidental, so I addressed that in my letter that that I sent to you. >> I think you're asking, can he distinguish between if he's cutting wood with a chainsaw for commercial purposes or personal purposes? >> I want to know what the result I mean,

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we know what the result is. We want we want him to stop doing that. But if we institute a cease and desist, does that limit him from using a chainsaw at all? >> No, not at all. >> Okay. >> No, that's your expectation. Yeah, fine.

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People can uh produce their own firewood. It's an accessory use of owning a home. It's just like having a garden. You can you can have it's an accessory use. But how many cord does he need to produce? So I documented 40 cord in one month, but it went on for summers. I'm going to estimate in 200 in

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a year. 200 cord left that property >> and we can't reverse it and make them bring those 200 back. So that's my point of view. But we but there's no way. So he's Nate's going to walk in. What are

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you doing? I'm cutting for personal use. >> And at that point, if he turns around and is doing it on a basis like he was before and we come back in a month or two months and everyone's saying, "Listen, we got pictures of this day, this day, this day. We put in complaints

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with Nate. We we've asked, you know, all this." So, what purpose does running What purpose does anyone need for accessory use to run a conveyor belt? >> What purpose? >> I have no idea. Chris, did you ask a question?

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>> Well, yeah. I guess I was I guess the question is kind of twofold. One, um I guess what would your six bullet point items be? And number two, can we actually enforce those types of guard rails with our decision? >> Yeah, we I nothing personal, Paul. We need to confirm all this with with

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council to make sure we could do a consultative. Obviously, I'm not going to say I I >> know the legal system. So, >> so I have a couple questions for you, Mr. Turner. Um, >> you said that there's a a 550 vehicle,

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550 vehicle, commercial vehicle. >> Yeah. >> Any research done on the vehicle? Who was registered to? What's the commercial business? It might >> It says Walt logging on the side of it. >> Okay. Did you do further research about where that who operates that business and what address?

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>> Mr. Walsh operates it >> out of what address? I'm sure you did it on the corporate search database maybe, but what >> I don't have that information in front of me, but again, you don't have to prove that someone's running a business. That's the whole thing. This is zoning. It's about use of the property.

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>> Paul, I agree with you. And right now, based on what has happened since January, I don't see I'm not going to We're talking since January. since we last met. >> I'm not going back prior to to January >> based on the information that I've

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received through the commissioner's office or anything. No one sent anything specifically to the zoning board about this about anybody any violations in the past uh 60 days give or take. >> So what is the commercial venture that's

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happened in the past 60 days? >> If you're going to say something you got to come up and No, no. In the last 60 days in in January, he loaded nine crates. He left at 6:30, 8:30, and 9:30. He trucked out nine

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crates of of firewood. And then the two observations that were sent in, it's had snow on the ground. And again, he's undercover. The problem is if if you don't have a cease and desist in audit with proper guidelines for Nate to enforce

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it. Every time he wants to produce, it's just going to be I'm cutting for personal use. He's going to put it in the truck. Okay, someone can put it in the truck because you can do that on your own property, but you can also say it's a commercial use because it's going to exceed the accessory use. But we'll

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let that go. So if I don't get a picture of him leaving the site or he has a top on it and he says there was no wood under that it was rubbish. It was it was brush. Nate's going to say I can't prove that. And this is just going to go on and on.

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>> Let me play the advocate. >> If you had all these conditions in place on on the cease and desist and he had it covered, how are you going to enforce that? Like I just said, there's no reason to load a truck on site for four or five

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hours with 3 and 1/2q of wood. For what purpose? >> Point is you're saying if we have all this in place, then there's going to be some teeth and we can stop him from doing it. But you also in the same breath with second another breath said, well, we can't tell him what he's doing. He's got a coverage under the cover.

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That's why that's why if we go to my findings, if you find that a truck being loaded with three and a half cord of wood on a piece of property, again using my analogy of the bank, you don't have to wait till the bank robber runs out to the to the sidewalk. If he's standing

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next to you with a gun to the teller, tell him to fill up the bag full of money. He's robbing a bank. He's filling that truck for export. There's no other reason for it. You can make that determination. The board in 4A gives you that right to make these determinations. >> We've been monitoring it since the

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appeal came to us and I just told you we've had two people make their complaint in the past 60 days. >> Mhm. >> So John, to your point, you think >> the periods of I think what did I one was an hour, one was less than two

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hours. So um again, it may be just because there's three feet of snow on the ground and you can't do anything right now. And honestly, if it if he turns around, we come back in a month or two and and it's back to the same old. >> But you can put the cease and desist in place. So a pause use is still a use. A

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dormant violation is still a violation. That's not my words. That's from the the appellet court. You guys supposed to use these >> parameters we can put on the cease and assist. >> I mean, do we I I've been advised on that. No, we have

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I mean again because I had I I was assuming the last if you if you remember the last time in January when we met we were going it was heard may not be strong enough for it that we were going to receive a second complaint that was going to open up

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another season, you know, a complaint. Nothing ever happened. We were going to have people let the commissioner know what was going on. No one's let us know anything that's going on. So, we come back 2 months later, we have two complaints over a 60-day period. It

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seems like everything has subsided. That's what I think we need to make our decision on. I can't go back and say what's going on, what was happening in in November, what was happening in December, >> but you can. Sorry, but you can. So, consult with the attorney and and she's

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going to tell you you can. >> Okay. Do you have anything else to add? Cuz I know some other people have their hands up in the back. So this note yeah I do I have quite a bit to I don't understand. So how about the packet it

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all sorts of case are in here accessory use must be customary incidental subordinate it it's a the use ceases to be accessory when its scale or intensity alters the residential character >> I don't think I'm disagreeing I know I'm not >> but these are all things that you can find on you the zoning board is to

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interpret case law Nate's job is to enforce it you have the right to to state to state the findings to to to have the findings you that's in your yard. >> Two people in 60 days.

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>> Yeah. So, I guess my point is that if any of those things in the findings were occurring, then Nate would have had to see them over the past 60 days and then we'd have something Nate would have had something to sink his teeth into, right? >> Could you say that again, please? >> Like if those six findings, whatever they are, right? >> Yeah. Sure.

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>> If those happened within the last 60 days and Nate would have found it or if they were complained on and they would have noticed it, he would have He would have had some teeth, right? But I think what John is saying is that has not occurred in the past. >> That's right. >> We're all here though. >> Yeah.

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>> Harassing us. 11 school streets harassing >> what Mr. Turner has done. Mr. Turner has the floor. So it's up if he wants to give up the floor. >> No, I'm not. >> So I guess what I'm saying is even if Nate had the findings, he would not have found them in the past 60 days. I guess >> that's great. So if the if the cease to desist was in place with the findings

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and Mr. Walsh has has grown up and stopped the the the the BS. That's great. So, he won't have to use it. But if he does, he will also know what the terms of engagement are. So, if you're going to load a truck with three and a half and think you're going to sneak it out at 5:30 in the morning, you're not

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because the neighbors are going to report it. Nate's got a four or five hour window to come down and say, "You can't be doing this." Unless Mr. Walter is going to tell him that he's going to be transferring from the back of the yard to the front of the yard. Okay, let me see you do that. But

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it's it's obvious what's going on. We've lived with this for a year. Last March is when I filed. This has been one year. >> I understand. >> I don't think anyone understands when you're in your backyard and you have people over. You have to leave the property. I can't even go into the house. We have to leave. Have invite

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guests over for for a day and have a glass of wine out back and I we have to leave. We have to go to go to a restaurant and I have no rec. I can't call. There's no one to call. Nate would not come down. If we have these in in place,

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the neighbors can call. The neighbors can monitor. This would be all over in a couple of weeks. >> The neighbors can call right now. >> Okay. In the spring when he gets going, the neighbors are going to call. Nate can't do anything because he's going to Mr. wallet's going to say this is for

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personal use >> and then we're going to have a track record at that point. >> But again, this is how how about right now? We have suffered for a whole year. I have what has to be in place. >> You have the right to put it in place. You're the ZBA. You can interpret the

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bylaws and put them in. You interpret case law. You and Nate are two separate entities. >> Understood. >> Well, hang on to Mr. Mr. Turner. You can talk to him. Ask him. Go ahead. I'm

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>> just go ahead. You can speak. >> You Ken Pinter nine school street. >> Hi. Um, you said two complaints have happened in the last couple of months. My question basically is how many more

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complaints do you need to hear first of all before you make a decision? And it seems to me, it's pretty clear that he needs nine 11 schools. He needs some kind of control because if you don't

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have a an external control, he's not going to respond that well. He hasn't so far. He could now, but he hasn't. The other thing is it may have nothing to do with anything because I don't know the law that well. I know the um domestic violence law, which is a 51A,

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they've changed that a while ago to say the person who is beating up somebody else does not have to be there at the time that the police officer gets there. All they need to do is getting beaten up, the victim needs to report it, and they will then put the 51A. I don't know

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if it's exactly analogous, but it should be. And it seems to be that that's the case. We don't need any more than one complaint or two complaints. Certainly a combination. Maybe one is one is is not enough, but two. Do you need six, 12

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before you finally said, "Let's put this on." That's what I have to say. How many do you need? I'm asking you. >> I don't think I would compare this to domestic violence. >> Well, I'm comparing it. Okay, fine. I'm talking about legally. But having said that, I don't think there's there is my

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guess is there isn't a defined amount of times. We need some to turn it around and show us that he's operating. >> But if you if you're waiting for the zoning commissioner to see it happening, we're out of luck. >> No, we didn't say >> I thought you said that to see it. I

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thought you said that that that he has to be called to actually then act. >> No, we >> Well, how many complaints do you need before you make this commission makes a decision? >> I can tell you right now it's more than me personally. The other three can speak

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for themselves. It's more than two over a 60-day period for a grand total of three hours. >> Well, so do you think three? I mean, so at some point you have to make that decision. You think you're going to get us to give you an exact? >> I'm not asking for an exact, but at some point you're going to have to make a

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decision and look at the whole picture. The whole picture over the course of all this time, not just for the last three months. It's been going on for long. So, make look at the whole picture. That's what we're asking for. Just a just a decision. >> That's the thing.

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>> Going back to the activity, you're only going 3 months. How about the nine months before it? You're going backwards now. 3 months. Let's go back the whole year. The whole body of work. >> I'm going back to when you came before this board. >> How about my complaint?

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>> Was it one year ago this month? Almost to the day. >> There's a whole body of work. >> Day after day after day, the Nate was notified, the board of select was notified, the town administrator was notified. day after day after day.

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>> Here's a binder full of all the hundreds of pictures and complaints over the last year. >> So, Paul, let's take a break for a second. Um, I know there are other people out there who want to make comments and uh obviously we need to make a decision with the board as to how

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we want to proceed from here. Does anybody else want to make any additional comments with new information other than what's already been presented by Paul >> Sher? Oh, over there. Yeah, so we can't hear you. The mic we can hear you, but the

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folks on Lake Cam may want to hear you. >> Sher Pinter, 9 School Street. We're neighbors next to the Walshes. Um, if you want to see something, there's a conveyor belt. Now, if anybody's using wood for their own personal use or for

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their family, they wouldn't need a conveyor belt. The pile of wood that's there is probably close to this line on the ceiling. It's enormous. Plus, there are logs laying there. I can see everything

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that's going on there. He had cages. He shifted the cages. They were stacked. They're gone. I see some cages have come back. It's there. Who knew we had to continually complain to you? My understanding was this was just going to

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be continued to the next meeting. Not that we had to continue telling you. My husband and I know the Simonssons sent in a video to the building inspector showing that he was doing it just like

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Paul has done. So there's evidence. Somebody needs to come and look at that evidence. I don't know if the building inspector did. I invited him to come to my house, look out the back and see what's back there. So, he's moved it

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from the front to the back so it's closer to the Turners and all the people on Ledgewood Drive. And I have a visual so I know what's happening. And whether he was doing it in the snow or not, I don't know. There's no snow there now.

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There's a huge pile and the conveyor belt is still there. He doesn't need a conveyor belt for homewood and he does not burn wood. He doesn't

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>> Anyone else have any comments? I want to get everybody else and then we'll come back. >> Hi, I live across the street 12 school street. Um going on nine years in Lakeville and we decided >> name for the record. Oh, Mon'nique. Mon'nique Beacon. Um, we haven't

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complained because we're being harassed. We're being videotaped at this point. Every time we're in our front yard, the harassment, I haven't opened my blinds since January. So, we've decided we're selling the house. How am I going to sell the house with the way this looks?

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It's toxic. Toxic with 20 by 10 ft signs. No wood for sale. We've never said there was wood for sale. We're complaining about the the truck leaving. I go to work at I leave at 5:00 am. When I'm getting ready at 4 am in the morning, he's leaving with cords of

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wood, lights off, headlights off, and rolling out at 4:00 a.m. to do deliveries. I I can't take it anymore. I can't live there anymore. It It's toxic. Absolute toxicity. And that's all I have to say. And this has not been going on for just a year.

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The complaint came a year ago. This was on the front of their yard, which affected us the most. went on for a year and a half before it went to the back. So, this is going on two and a half to three years that we've been dealing with this and I've had it. Can't do it anymore. Can't enjoy my yard. It's

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terrible. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else before >> Grace Turner, one ledge would drive. I just want to say that if any wood was really being processed

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for personal use, there would be no need for a conveyor belt. As I know people have already said this, but when you say that it's only been two times in the last 30 days, only for an hour, one day, and 45 minutes, turning the conveyor

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belt on at all constitutes commercial use. There is no personal reason for a conveyor belt to load the wood up to drop it into the the big giant truck. That's not for personal use. Personal

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use stays on the property. Turning the machine on at all inside my home with in the middle of the winter, the doors, windows shut and locked. I could not escape that sound of that conveyor belt. And that video was

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playing very low. It's a lot louder than that in my house. I was standing in my living room, tried to go into the kitchen, the furthest point away, with all my windows locked. I could not get away from that sound at all. And I had

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nowhere to go to escape it for that one little hour that you're talking about. So anytime that machine goes on, anytime. And we're not complaining about a chainsaw, someone using a chainsaw one day to cut down a tree. This is a

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commercial chainsaw that goes in and in and in over and over loudly. This isn't somebody cutting wood for personal use. Anytime that machine goes on, it's commercial. >> I just had a quick clarification

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question. So, is a chainsaw um handheld or is it some type of mechanized like >> Oh, no. systematic. >> It's handheld. >> Cutting. >> I built houses for it for a number of years. Scott Johnson landing cleared

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probably well over a 100 house lots for me. I would be on site all the time. They would have 24 30inch bar lengths. I didn't have ear protection. I could stand 10 20 feet away have a conversation with someone else while they were working while they're doing cutting on the edge.

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What is Mr. Walsh has out there? I don't know if it's modified or what, but it is a 24 probably 30in blade. And the way he attacks the wood, he lines up the log lengths, either the 8 foot or the 16 foot lengths, >> and it's as fast as he can get it

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through. Then he lifts up. Then he goes over 16 in again. Again, again, again, the whole length from here to the wall. Then he stops. Then he takes his his uh his skid steer. Another Why? Who needs a

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skid steer to produce firewood for a personal personal use? He grabs another log again. Again, again, again, again. It's not someone cutting a tree and then limming it and then cutting into length. Well, the reason I asked was the video

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seemed to um convey that it's just a continual. >> It's because >> sound of cutting. >> He has large diameter. >> To me, it was kind of hard to imagine um

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>> like manually cutting at at that rate. >> The one thing I can say about Mr. Walt, he's the hardest worker I've seen in years. He doesn't stop. >> So, yeah, he that that saw is very heavy and it's as fast as you can get it through, he starts again. It's almost like you said, you think it is a

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machine, but it's him. >> Yeah. Do do you happen to know like typically um someone that is in the commercial firewood production business? Is it seasonal? Is it does it be is production

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less as you go into um spring and warmer months and then it gears up as you get into um >> he's busier during this the spring summer and fall. So if you picture someone that's uh 2026 uh heating season

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is coming to an end. So I assume someone that burns wood is finishing off the wood they purchased in 25. So, they're not going to call him now to come dump a load at the end of the driveway. Maybe now because the driveway is clear of snow, but in the next week, two, five months, uh, two, three months, they're going to call him. So, they're going to

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dump it at the end of their driveway and then they're going to stack and dry it ready for the 27 season. So, it's going to it's going to start. He's This whole backyard is full of log links. He's waiting waiting to go. >> Yeah.

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So in in your opinion you have to produce now to satisfy demand if there is a demand for >> I I assume I'm not quite sure how he operates but he did not stop operating

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the entire year last year. >> Yeah. >> Again direct correlation when when I first called Kathy at the town hall the week of the 12th activity went down to right down. I was like, "Wow, that's pretty good." >> Well, you put your initial complaint into Nate in the spring of last year,

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>> correct? >> March of 28. Yep. >> Right. March of 25 about where we are at this point. That's correct. He is going to to start it up again. He's if he hasn't already, he's he's ready to start it up. So, that's my point about it. We give it

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>> I understand to do another six another 30 days and then it makes it nice and clean and simple. Listen, you're out there put five days a week. You're you're doing exactly what everyone's accusing you of doing and that >> but I don't understand this back in place.

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>> Don't understand why we have to go backwards. Why that's not that's not fair. >> It should just put it in. And so what is what is what is the loss if we put it in place? H hopefully it doesn't work. Hopefully no one has to use it. Let's

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put it in place. Why can't we put it in place? >> Listen, I'm one person on on >> I understand. May I read something also? >> One more person come up. Make you had your hand up. Right. Yeah. Come on up.

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>> Then I'll let you read what you have into the record and then we'll discuss whether we're going to take action today this evening or not. So >> I don't have much to much to add, but I live right across the street. You guys know me, right? Elvis, I was here last time, right? And uh I've tried to make

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peace with him. Tried to like slow it down and walked over there last week. Now there's like a big black thing and covering the whole property and all kinds of junk in the front. And last time I had mentioned looked like a crack house. Now they built a sign that says

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it's not a crack house, it's a crack hole. But on the conveyor belt thing, there's a splitter that goes before that. Splits it up. goes up to conveyor belt and then it drops it into those big boxes that he just got more delivered and he's got a whole load of logs in the

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back. He just moves it in the back, put that black thing up, covered it up. In the morning he leaves with a full truck. Nobody saw it. Nobody sees it. It's night time. But now that we have cameras, we can see it. So, and then u I

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find unbelievable that only two people complained because it has slowed down. Okay. We did get a lot of snow and but it's still going on, you know, like

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little, but it like like you said, now it's going to pick up. They got the big signs out there saying we didn't sell wood, all that. It just looks horrible. And if this doesn't get to a resolve, me and my wife are ready to sell the house and move. But if we put the house up for

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sale, who's going to want to live across the street from that, sir? >> Unfortunately, we don't have any control over people putting signs up. I know I'm driven by I know exactly what you're talking about. I I do not think it looks appealing at all, but unfortunately, you know, brought up that we can't control

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that. >> Yes, sir. I understand. The other thing is >> the byproduct of what he's doing, the noise levels. >> Yes, sir. >> That has a health. I mean, that's, you know, it's too loud. >> If if it's going to keep on going, me and my wife, we're going to move.

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>> That that's our dream home. >> Come to some resolutions. You don't have, >> you know, we're we're taxpayers. We we don't bother anybody. Everybody in neighborhood likes us. I try to help everybody as I can, you know, but there's no resolving across the street.

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I I I put my tail between my legs last week and I walked over there just to like like can we talk? Can we make a resolution? And it was just uh screaming and spitting and uh and I stayed calm. I

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walked away. I was like, "Okay." So, it's on you guys' hands. I I I I totally get that. >> You know, there's so much you can do, but there's stuff that you can do. Imagine if you lived across the street.

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>> Just imagine you guys, you ma'am, if you lived across the street. I'm about to be a grandpa. >> She's secretary. >> Oh, whatever. Just Just imagine whoever living across the street from that. I'm I just found out I'm about to be a grandpa.

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>> Congratulations. >> Thank you, sir. And I don't want that, you know. I that was my dream home, you know, calm, peaceful in the woods. I got my chickens, my pigeons. Like I said, everybody's nice. We used to get along,

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but then once that started, it just everything just, you know, understood. >> But I'm still trying to make peace, but there's no resolution. That's all I had to say. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. I hope you guys

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>> I hope you guys make the right decision. Thank you guys. >> All right, we'll let you go and then Paul, you can wrap it up and take >> Joshua Farity for Johnson Drive. For the record, I just want to speak a little

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bit about uh chapter 48 in the board's ability to make a determination here. Under Massachusetts zoning law, the distinction between a permissible accessory residential use and a prohibited commercial use turns not on a

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single factor, excuse me, while on the overall character of the activity evaluated through its scale, intensity, frequency, and relationship to the primary residential use. Pursuant to Massachusetts general law 48, municipalities are empowered to regulate

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land uses and enforce local zoning by bylaws with the building commissioner making initial determination. The zoning board of appeals reviewing those decisions. Denovo within this framework. An accessory use

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is one that customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal residential use. meaning that it must both commonly associate with residential living and a clearly secondary in nature in impact.

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By contrast, a commercial use is generally understood to involve ongoing business-like activity characterized by operation, production, or processing of goods used or specialized equipment and patterns of distribution or transport regardless of whether direct financial

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transaction can be proven. Massachusetts courts consistently emphasize that the inquiry is functional rather than formalistic. The critical question is not whether there is proof of sale, advertisement or formal business structure.

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>> Can you one second? >> Go ahead. >> Um Mr. Turner has already spoken to this point. So if you want to just >> reiterate make a point that you want to Mr. turn, please do so because I just can't people repeating the same things

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over and over again. >> Understood. Let me skip to my last section. Just another minute. >> Accordingly, a municipality need not establish direct evidence of profit or complete sales to determine that a commercial use exists. >> Sir, you're repeating yourself. So,

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>> I would to add >> I would say that adding the findings that Mr. Turner has laid out would give your building commissioner direct control on enforcing the residential zoning in that neighborhood. Thank you. >> Hey Paul,

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>> so I was kind of right in the middle cut off, so I'll go as fast as I can, but I've spent a lot of time on this the past two weeks putting together and I'd like to present it. I want it part of the record. So I did bring

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the print out the uh submitt to tonight if you want to take a copy each person and I can tell you what page I'm on or else you want to just listen to me you can just listen but the books are right next to Kathy >> you already passed them out I'm sorry

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okay page five the letter of March 1526 >> um core issue the appeal concerns land use not whether a point of sale can be proven Massachusetts courts consistently hold zoning regul relates the activities current in land itself not business arrangements not where money changes hands not whether a business entity

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exists. SEIT is concerned with the use of the locust not the business arrangements that may occur elsewhere. Critical inquiry is the activity occurring on land itself. Lawrence versus Northro the accessory use must be customary incidental and subordinate. So I think the board does

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get all that. So we'll move forward. Page six, I want to clear the difference between incidental personal transfer of firewood and commercial exporting. Homeowners may give small amounts of firewood to family

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or transport modest quantities for personal use. Such activity typically involves a pickup truck or a small trailer homeowner trailer, not a Ford F550 commercial dump truck designed for large-scale hauling. The commissioner now has permission to view the rear of

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11 school street from four abuing properties. Um, skimming down. I want to be clear. I understand that many Lakeville residents produce their own firewood and that is normal. Residential zoning is designed to protect quiet enjoyment,

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stability, and charact character of the neighbors by preventing commercial scale operations from intruding into residential districts. Several residents on school street heat their homes with firewood. Something I know simply from observing smoke escaping from their chimneys during the heating season, not

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because they produce firewood year round. Page seven. Page eight. We'll go to page nine. Purpose of the p of the appeal. Reinstate the bis the building commissioner cease and desist order and

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issue clear findings distinguishing accessory residential use from commercial activity. Legal basis. Zoning regulates use not business. Again, SEIT credential butler identity of the business model is irrelevant. Zoning regulates the use.

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Page 10. Enforcement based on on-site operations. Fitzgerald. Enforcement focuses focuses on the physical acts on the land. This is important. Enforcement focuses on physical acts on the land. Wendy's

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operations conducted on the site. Statutory authority under Mass General Laws chapter 48 section 8 and 15. ZBA has full authority to interpret the zoning bylaw. Determine whether a use is residential accessory commercial re and

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state enforcement orders. Issue findings necessary for consistent enforcement. >> So Paul, I I I know you put a lot of time and effort into this and I can appreciate that. I think we all understand uh on this board that the

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real our decision at this point is do we feel at this point there's commercial use going on and that we need to turn around and overturn the um building commissioner's decision. Again, I tend to agree with Nate and give

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another little bit of time here, but I'm one of on four. So >> could I ask one more question regarding what constitutes commercial operation here? >> Is there a piece of equipment specifically? >> Are you asking me or you asking in

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general anyone who could answer the question? I said I think I think there's multiple I think there's a large truck >> I think there's there's a variety of things on that property from an equipment standpoint there

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>> no one's saying you can't have a large truck >> but you can't fill it with wood and export it from your property >> no one can say you can't stop using a chainsaw I didn't say to stop the chainsaw. I've never said that. >> Right. So, what's going to stop a commercial operation? Is that the conveyor conveyor belt?

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>> That's a conveyor belt. Yeah. >> That is that if you stop if you set a cease and desist on conveyor belt, does that kind of limit his commercial operability? >> Yes. He can let it sit on the property. Don't turn it on. Exactly. So, when you turn it on, that's in my findings. Okay.

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Is that commercial use? >> It is when you pick up the logs so you move them around the property so you can saw them. Yes, it is. He trucks in 20 foot long logs >> 20 in in diameter. Those are huge. >> Bobcat and Camaro, right?

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>> That's correct. Is there anything else that shows something other than a conveyor or truck? >> No sir. I mean this is a firewood business.

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I mean, my thought is I don't think I need any more convincing on kind of the drive of what's going on there and it might exceed the residential use. I'm just more concerned about the most appropriate way to enforce it. C >> can I make a motion here? >> Sure.

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I'd like to make a motion to reinstate the cease and assist letter binding around the use of operation. Those two pieces of equipment that would make it more of a commercial operation.

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One is the conveyor, two is the bot and that would be the restriction I would say for the use on that property and that would be part of the ceaseless. So to reinstitute the cease to desist with the two pieces of equipment that

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cannot be used on that property are the bobcat and the >> no >> conveyor. That's >> all his motion. >> Sorry. >> That's correct. You have a motion.

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I will second that. Second. So now we'll get to discuss. I think >> I'd like to have more language around the use. I mean, I agree with the equipment bar, but maybe also what it's used for and any other uses that are

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deemed more commercial than not be added to it. If there's anything we missed, >> let us talk for you. We're in the middle of >> the meeting's not closed. That's all I want to know.

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So >> probably probably language around the exporting of the wood. >> So >> So whether or not he has 10 residential trucks pull up at once versus a 550 >> building in some language says he can't

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export anything from property >> or something deemed residential. >> How do you restrict that use? I mean I don't know. That's why I'm asking. >> Yeah. No, I mean I think we have that's that's what I'm struggling with. >> He can certainly take anything else off his property into a 550 truck and

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transport it somewhere. >> You know, >> I'm sorry. I have a finding >> one piece of firewood. Is that violate the restriction the cease? >> Right. Depends on how we believe. >> Exactly. I just think

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it's harder to bound. I think you're saying if you stop using the big stuff, you can only produce so much. Only taking it off. You're not going to be able to take off. >> I think it's a reasonable >> restriction to limit his operation to just personal use. I think that's our

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goal here. >> Perfect. Correct. >> Correct. >> So, I just have one one question as far as the Bobcat goes. The the problem with the I'm not saying to take the Bobcat off. I mean, are we

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saying strictly enforcement? You can't use the bobcat only for wood the cutting and moving of wood. You're using it to clear snow. I just I want to make sure we don't put something in place where it's going to turn around and say you can't restrict it.

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>> Yeah. There's a lot of uses for put a guard. It's a GL. You can It can be a glorified wheelbarrow, >> you know. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure we don't something that's going to shot down. >> That's why I want to put in the relation of the processing of wood, not just the

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equivalent big piece that's only used for wood. So, it's there's nothing else I would assume. >> Yeah. I mean whatever the mechanism that is the attachment to the bobcat that picks up big logs would be I'm just sorry

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>> any type of >> grabber claw >> the grabber >> claw whatever >> grapple which you want to use to describe it that thing will not be in use with the >> Bob can not be used any

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>> any portion of of any other can I be devil's advocate here for a second? So, >> what would prevent somebody from not

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using the conveyor belt to process wood, but to just merely run it. But the one that >> the other ma'am >> unfortunately we can't just have people in the audience

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one of them is because they can't hear you on lake cam so public to me Chris there's no residential use >> on it >> right okay conveyor >> right no I I >> saying is there any other is there anything else they could use that for I

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don't I don't think so >> I mean I could think But >> I I don't think you could have anything else that commercial use for today. That's >> right. No, I agree. >> So, >> all right. Any other discussion? I want to recognize Paul in a second, but

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>> sure. >> Any other questions in regard? >> I guess my only fear to that is he might just use the chainsaw more just to bother people and this really isn't helping. No. >> Well, I mean, I can address all that.

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Can go ahead real quick. Um, you're right. He can I mean, if he's going to be a bad neighbor, he could be a bad neighbor. He could be a bad neighbor through 8:00 in the morning or 7:00 whenever he could start work till 11:00 at night. Those are the hours of operation.

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>> That's correct. >> So, they can't do anything about that. >> But if he wants to be loud, if he's using it too much, there's noise audiences over there. We can't, like I said, when Elvis came up, we have a kind of a very narrow focus on what we

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>> That was that was sort of my point with like operating the conveyor belt. >> You can't restrict the chainsaw. That's my opinion. >> Right. So, if he's operating from 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., that's a noise violation. That's a different method to handle. >> Yeah.

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>> Right. But to your point, I Chris, I don't know if you had other things you wanted to add beyond what I put in motion, but you said you had a couple things you wanted. >> Well, I guess I just make it I just want it to be more encompassing though, so it actually stops the processing of wood

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overall. >> I think the goal is if we pick the two things that are going to stop you from processing it from a commercial standpoint, like you're never going to be able to stop it. You can't we can't stop him from processing it. I mean, I guess if he wants to turn around and and hand move everything and and and get rid

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of some of the big equipment, he could still do that. But you're you're not going to be able to run the same type of an operation without, you know, the larger equipment that we have. So, >> this is really want to add before I go ahead.

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>> If you turn in the booklet to page 19 and 20, I have findings for adoption. Finding one, finding two, three, four, five, and six. They spell out exactly what you just were talking about. Maybe we can use this for discussion.

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Finding one activities on the property constitute commercial use. The board finds that the physical operations occurring at 11 school street including yearround processing, staging, loading, exporting large quantities of firewood constitutes a commercial use

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within a residential zone. Zoning regulates the use of land, not business arrangements or point of sale activity. Finding two, loading of a commercial dump truck. Finding three, operation of a commercial conveyor belt is a commercial use. Finding number

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four, exporting processed firewood is a commercial use. If we get these findings in place, he might just keep running the saw to do what he wants, but eventually, if you cut him off from his from the way he makes money, eventually he's going to have to go get a job. He's going to have

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to go get a real job and and move his operation where it's properly zoned. >> I'm pretty sure suggested the conveyor belt is going to be the ultimate >> I think that's pretty much a limiting factor for him to process. So I I'm

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comfortable the way it's uh worded this motion, but suggestions that just for the record if this was to go forward and we were to agree and vote to two reinstitut

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with these two points on it. Uh I would uh I would make sure council reviews it in and that we are doing it the right way so we don't run into a problem later. We have the concept of what we want to do.

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>> Yeah, we could certainly you say add the boarding pending legal review and approval. Yeah, >> sure. I'll amend the motion to include that. >> Yeah, I I don't think you need to. I just wanted you know we leave here today. This is I'm making sure this is

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run by some smarter and more more um wait a minute. >> You saying about me? >> I'm saying about all of us. All of us. >> So smarter. >> Yes. >> So when I came here tonight asked for the cease and desist to be uh reinstated

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and the findings for adoption. So are we going to have any discussion on what my findings for adoption what I'm proposing? Um, I think the board is is is comfortable with the direction we're

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going in. Uh, obviously we the board's going to make the decision. It's not going to be what, >> but isn't that going to be open for discussion? I mean, I think I know a lot a lot more about the property that the Bobcat is not an issue. That doesn't bother me. It's the conveyor belt and

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the exporting of the truck. And again, the exporting is difficult to to document digitally or watch or are you going to have to even if you have a picture of it and the load is covered. It's hard to say. The argument is always going to be that you know judge it

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wasn't firewood. It was it was trash. >> So would that finding even help in that case then? >> If you read finding number two, loading of a commercial that's what I was looking at. >> Yeah, sure. The board finds that loading a commercial. >> Oh, no, no, no. I did read that. But I'm saying like if he can always kind of evade the proof power,

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>> but the thing is if you read this, we can you can it's a commercial use if you're doing it right on the property. There's no reason to put three and a half court into it. >> No, no, I No, I completely agree with you. What you just said was that he could kind of evade proof regardless.

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Like I'm I'm going to I agree with finding number two and I would like to add that to the motion, but what I'm saying is from a from an enforcement standpoint, >> but at that point he would be in the actual process. It takes him four or five hours to load up the truck with that much. So someone could email Nate.

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He's in the process. So that's 9:00. So Nate doesn't have to drop everything he wants. He's got a huge window. Three, four, five hours. He could ride down just knock. He has a cease and desist on the property. So he's has permission to go on the property. He could walk right up to Mr. Walsh and say, "You have been

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told that this is a parameter." You can't do that. >> How do you load the dump truck >> either by hand? >> By hand. >> By hand. Yeah. by hand. >> Okay. >> And the loader. >> And the load. >> And the loader too. But >> belts.

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>> Let me finish. Many times he will cut all the wood like I told you described. And he'll sit there with a a splitter that he stands up and he would chuck it. I have videos of it. He so you can hear the process going on. It takes two, three, again, four hours

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depend how much he's he's putting. One, two, three quarts, whatever his order is for that. >> Type of truck. I tend to believe with the audience is because this case it works out is is yelling out that he's using Bobcat. He's using >> he also for the most part 99 maybe not

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99 but the majority of time he's not sitting there throwing it in. So if we could add the load a lot of times he stopped the other two that's probably going to stop >> if he automates the process by using the conveyor or bulks it by using >> I would say that's how I would approach it. >> Yeah. But by hand, I think that would be

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>> But if we also cut it off at the legs with the loading of the commercial truck regardless, >> even that would stop almost everything because he can't load it into a commercial truck regardless if you use the conveyor belt. >> There you go. >> Yes. >> So if there's a guy who's a plumber and

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he's loading his tools into his commercial truck, he can't do that. >> No, I'm saying if there's a big dump truck and he's loading wood in all day, then he can stop. You know, >> he can, >> but he could load his commercial truck with other stuff that's not firewood. >> Yes, he can. >> Oh, no. I'm saying just prohibit the

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fire. I mean, we're trying to prohibit. >> Not any piece of wood can go into that truck. >> I think we'd have to word it appropriately. It would have to be gone through legal, but >> to me, it's the export of the wood. That's also kind of the big >> What's the threshold by which it's too much wood going into the drum? >> Well, that's what I'm Maybe legal says,

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okay, so many cords. >> Where is it going? >> Where is it going? Why would it why would >> I think the simple >> I think that's a tough one to it's a >> it's a tough one to quantify it is easy to quantify don't use that and don't use that right >> that's pretty simple I think we start with simple

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>> black and white as opposed to gray >> there's nothing that prevents us from coming back adding more to it right yes I think we're going to continue to >> operate with the dump truck by hand bless him but it it continues to be a

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noise issue for the neighbors, then they should come back and file a complaint and revisit the dump truck. >> The issue is the disturbance of the neighbor in my opinion, right? And whether he's throwing it in by hand,

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>> one cord, two cords, a half a cord. Okay. The real issue, everything you've shown us for videos and everything everyone's talked about here has to do with the sound of the chainsaw, the loading of it on the conveyor belt, the moving of nothing to do with the big truck starting up and leaving and

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coming. He shouldn't be doing that. I understand that. But I think if we get rid of the two big items, it makes it nice and clean and simple. We don't have to say how much wood is too much wood, how much are you doing or I doing. If he figures out a workound, >> we come back and deal with the workound.

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John agree. Thank you. >> I mean, I'll give you one more question. >> Last one. Okay. There's no reason for the wood to leave the property. You're saying load the truck, put trash in it, put furniture in it, put dirt in it, anything you want.

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But why do you have to put three C of wood into it? Why would it leave? That that that's exceeding the accessory use. >> So, could Mr. Walsh bring wood to his friends? We I addressed that in my letter. >> He asked a question. Could he bring Could he bring it to his friends? Could

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he bring three quarts of wood to me if I was his friend? >> Three quarts. >> So that he that would be a pretty good pretty good friend cuz that's a lot of money. That's a $1,500. >> Okay. So, or he gives some to you and then he gives some to you and some to you.

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>> Yeah. >> I mean, let's all use our heads. He's not giving away $1,500 loads. My point is we don't know exactly what that number is that he should or shouldn't do. This isn't as simple as somebody's holding a

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gun to someone's head to try to rob a bank to steal your analogy, right? We don't know how much it is. I do agree if he's using that conveyor belt on a regular basis, that's the equivalent of holding someone's gun to someone's head, we know they're robbing the bank. I don't know whether a half a cord a full

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where he's going with this. I think if we turn around and put in place what you said, Jerry, that should restrict it enough that it's going to stop the use. >> And as far as I am aware from watching and listening, there's been no evidence produced that he's actually selling and

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collecting proceeds from the sale of firewood. No one's approved of that that the point is I don't know if that's necessarily >> just because they're just using equipment I get it but no one really prove the fact

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>> so well I think we should probably >> that doesn't have to be proven I'm sorry the use doesn't have to be proven >> you have so just content correct so I can make sure we >> I would like to reinstate the cease and

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desist motion >> with the parameters around discontinuing the use of the conveyor belt and the bobcat with the log for the attachment to move logs

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at 11 school street >> I second that >> upon legal review approval of scores. Yes. >> Yep. >> Do we have any further discussion amongst the board members? >> Okay. All in favor?

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>> I opposed. Motion carries unanimously. >> Thank you. >> Talk to council tomorrow. Make sure we draft it correctly and any reason that we need to do something different. Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Good night. Thank you. >> It is cold. >> Yeah, I kind of run hot though. But yeah, it is cold. Okay. What's next? >> But you have to say chop chop. >> All right. Next agenda item,

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Rubido Cornerstone Church Hearing 111 Highland Road. So, let's get that upid. Lakeville zoning board of appeals acting in accordance with Mass General Law Chapter 48 as amended will conduct a

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public hearing on Thursday, March 26, 7 p.m. in the Lakeville Public Library for Freeing Street. On the petition of Lawrence Rubido, I apologize if I miss. Special permit is requested under section 270.6.6 and section 277.4 to allow the

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replacement of an existing sign with an LED message board of 111 Highland Road site owned by health church. An application is sort of documents can be viewed by the planning department. So uh I'm assuming you're here on behalf of

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the >> yes >> petitioner. So why don't you tell us what you're looking to do? I think it's pretty self-evident and I can get my brief. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> Uh so basically the the objective is to upgrade the sign that exists that has

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been in place since 1988 from what I understand to an LED sign that is much easier to change the lettering. At this point it has to use a cylinder key on both sides. You have to lift the plexiglass. You have to get your head on let it rest on your back. Change the

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letters. put them in, you know, the zero and then you back up, you see if it's spaced correctly. Okay? And it so that's the way it's been. That's the way that was the standard. Uh and the idea behind that is um we had

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great weather, good example. Try to do that in the winter we just had. Now, most of the people are elderly in this church. Bear that in mind as well. And we're really trying to plan for the future. So, what this would enable us to do is to be able to change that lettering

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remotely and if we have an Easter service, welcome the community and let them know what time it's going to be. If there's an event for the community to come in, the church is providing for the women to, you know, craft night or something,

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they can announce that to the people and it's not such a big ordeal. We've had instances where the sign has had the lettering up there three months because it we hadn't been able to get somebody to get out there and do it. So, the idea is really to uh

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sort of uh it's it's part of a church restoration process really and getting it current with what people are doing now. I know of other churches that are doing this and it just keeps it easier to keep it current. You can put the whole calendar up. You can alter it if need be.

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It is changed through a cellular tower. You can dim the lights at any given time on a timer. It automatically dims during dusk, so it's not going to blare anyone. It's a different brilliance during the day than it is at night, but it just gives the flexibility to keep things

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current and let the church be seen for what it is, is being alive and not a dead church in this area so that people can see that the church is active. and not stagnant and that there's this

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we're very welcoming for the community. So the objective is to make that easier to change the messages or the lettering which it really is a message board already. It's just a manual message board. >> So just for the record I'm assuming

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Lawrence >> Lawrence Riv yes 11 chair guard. Uh so let me read a couple of uh memos into the record for this one from the planning board dated March 23rd. At their Thursday, March 12th meeting, the planning board reviewed the above reference petition for hearing from the

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zoning board of appeals. The board voted to send a letter to the zoning boards recommending the applicant confirm the existing sign bylaw conform, excuse me, to the existing signed bylaw in the following four items within an electronic message shall not be more than 12 ft. There will be no

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illumination 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. The sign shall not above residential properties on side or across the street. Internally illuminated signs greater than 24 ft are prohibited. So looking at the design you sent to us, I think we're

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all set on the >> Yeah, it's the same size. >> Yeah. First item, um I'm assuming it will not be it'll it'll comply with the no illumination 11 p.m. to 6. >> Absolutely. Um the only question um and I I know where the sign is so you're all

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set on the Yeah. residential properties and >> internally illuminated. Uh the only question I had is I right now it is a message board. You saying it's going to continue to be a message board? >> Correct. >> Is it going to have any other type of graphics on it or it will have like characters or

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>> Well, nothing strobe like we can we can adhere to whatever the rules need be. Okay. Now you could put some sort of image. Yes, you could. It's not going to be a strobe image. And again, you can address the contrast, brilliance, and all of that. >> Yeah, we just My concern is with the

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these signs, we just want to make sure it's not something that's changing quickly or no people going to get distracted by that. >> Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. No, that would be a very slow um you know, change rate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Within reason because

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we don't have that many things going on, >> right? You will because of the sign change. So, uh the other memo is from the uh who's this? Oh, conservation uh and Concom doesn't have any concerns

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about the proposed signage of 111 Highland Road. So, you're all set with that. >> Great. >> I don't have any additional questions. I don't see any problem with basically updating this sign and breaking it into 26. So, right. Anybody else have other questions or

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I'm just curious if the um signage is only for the church is >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> Supposed to be the sign. >> That's that's what the sign that's the banner on top. >> Like I said, that's what it's supposed

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to be. So, we're just clarifying that for the record. >> Yes. >> Church usage. >> I got one quick question for you. Sure. >> So, I'm just looking at the sign. Um >> correct. >> Is this like a static? Yes, that's a banner more or less. It would be static. Correct. >> So this >> that is the area exactly

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>> be changing >> from basically fluorescent back lit >> y >> manual letters to to that. It's just simply a different means. >> Y >> same function. >> Yep. Do you have like just dimension of the actual >> It's 4 by8 the It's the same by eight.

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Yeah. I mean I don't know what the actual screen size is if that is actually changing the picture. Right. I believe that's 4 by8. >> Well, that's whole thing is 4x8. >> Okay. On there. Okay. So, it's actually going to be it possibly might

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>> Okay. That's total >> the current from what I I think right now it's 4 by8 as far as this the the lit area >> from what I understand. So, we can verify that.

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>> But they knew what the dimensions were. >> It's not much. >> It's not very big. No. >> Okay. >> Any comments from the audience? >> Up to the mic there name and address for the

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>> um Rich Shep 110 Highland. I guess my only concern is LEDs can be very evasive. It just um I know you said you could dim it. It dims at dusk. Um, but I might ask that you might look at maybe

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turning it off at maybe 9 as opposed to 11:00 cuz >> we could definitely >> cuz it's really just still a residential area. I mean, they roll up the streets here at 8:00. I mean, >> you know, the and that's more of a residential area versus being on 18

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where we have some of the new LED signs that are very, very bright. >> You have the option to dim it at whatever contrast. So it could either be completely off or it can be, you know, just very thinly lit so that it's not it's just not a distraction. >> That's the only thing I would add. Just

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>> our bylaw, sir, is is 11 p.m. >> 11. Okay. Well, again, >> you by you I just heard him say something about 9ine and you kind of it sounded like you were kind of Yeah, we could adjust that. You >> Well, I I would say if we we're just

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speaking on my own behalf. I'm not saying Okay. We would make it so that the contrast or the brilliance of it would not be a hindrance. >> Okay. Because I was talking to my other neighbor who's like directly right across from that and I don't have a direct angle to it.

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>> Yeah. >> But LEDs >> they can be >> they can be very >> that's all we actually spoke with the u manufacturer of the sign company um yesterday and they said you can have it at any given brilliance.

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>> Okay. And that can be on a timer and that can be either a lower brilliance during the evening >> or you can take it all the way down to nothing. >> Okay. >> So >> that's that's the only concern we really had. >> Right. >> So >> and I'm sure that we would be very accommodating to

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>> I get it and I I appreciate you wanting to get your message out. So I have no problem with that. So >> you know it's definitely a good thing. >> Thanks. Yeah. Give me another >> just one >> quick Marian McCroll. I live on County

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Street. >> Um my neighbors on the other side, they have a lovely sign for their doggy daycare. Um I just don't like LED in such a beautiful area. And I also live with the

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that intersection is becoming a nightmare. If you come up Highland Road anytime after 3:00, maybe push it to poor, the line's all the way down the street and it's beep. People pull. It's a crazy intersection. You live there, right? It's very, very dangerous. I

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think it's a distraction practically. Another thing to look at or to look away from. That's just my point. If it does go ahead, I think it should be off completely by 9:00. >> When Mr. By 9:00 p.m. off, we don't need lights in Lakeville after 9:00. Everybody that uses that route will see

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it 50,000 times a month. They'll go by it. Um nothing bright, nothing's wrong with a little bit of light in the back with a few black letters, >> but you know the >> right >> you know. Oh, here we are. Uh it's just it's just kind of lousy to put it in in

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such a lovely area. Excuse me. >> It doesn't strobe. >> No, it shouldn't do anything that's >> someone might look at distract in any way. It's a crazy intersection. If anything, we need a blinking yellow light up there or blinking red or something like that. And eventually that will come years to come because it's

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just becoming so congested. I've lived there over 30 years and it's >> Oh, yeah. The school. Yeah. Everything. It's just It really is becoming a I'm so surprised there's not a lot more accidents up there. You know, you can hear the screeching of the tires or anything. But in any point, the church is lovely. The propertyy's lovely. I

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love your sign. I mean, we can all read. We don't need, you know, that in our face. But I do understand that you're trying to get people to come on. It has to be as rural as possible. >> And what do we do if we're not happy with it >> if we think it's too bright or it's

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11:30? >> Okay. So, >> you know, she talks to us. >> All right. >> Well, you know, I'm I'm just saying, do we have to come back here or just go? I said to Mr. Marxon when he put up the um what do you call them? Storage units. He had those bright lights everywhere. And

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I just said, "Nah." He shut them right off for me. They're not on in the street. You can see the whole thing nicely. So, and he planted beautiful trees in front of it. So, I have no problem with that at all. So, my my issue is just that it's a rural area and it's a lovely church and we'd like to keep it as close to that as possible.

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So, good luck. >> Thank you, ma'am. Thank you all. >> Anyone else? >> All right. Any other questions from us or is a motion? >> I'll make a motion we approve the special permit. But it's not

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restrictions or just comply with the I would no restrictions. I would hope that he would comply with the neighborhizing. >> Sizing. Pretty sure we >> So, all right. We have a motion to

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approve the um special permit. >> A second. >> Second. >> Yes, I second. >> Any further discussion? All >> in favor? >> I motion carries. >> Thank you, sir.

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>> You're all set. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Good luck. >> All right. All the way. >> I know. >> Thank you.

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Mike first. >> All right, you're handing stuff out. Watch a conduct a public hearing on Thursday, March 26, 2026, 7:00 p.m. Public Library for Precinct Street. Upon

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the submission of Campelli, a special permit is requested under section 276.1. C, section 277.4 and section 278.2A 2A 7 will allow the construction of a 29,400 ft addition which will increase the

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height conformity from 35.7 ft to 37.5 ft. The site is located in the industrial zone 234 drive. >> Hello Mike. >> How you guys doing this evening? >> Doing good. I'm assuming you are

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representing the petitioners since you hand this stuff out for us. >> That that would be correct. Uh again, for the record, Michael Shan, same attorney with an office in Middleboro. Um with me tonight is Jeff Wyman from Campanelli. Uh Camp Nelli has been hired

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to construct an addition at the property at 234 Kenneth Welch Drive. Um if you look at the aerial handout that I I handed you, that's the existing building. It's approximately 35,000 square ft in an area plus or minus. Uh

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it's on a 10acre lot. It's uh used for cold storage right now. Um it's pre-existing non-conforming structure. When you apply the um height regulation, it calculates out to uh 35.7 ft. We're

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proposing to put a 25,000 square ft addition to the rear of the building. Um, and the the topography of the site slopes from Kenneth Welch down uh downwards towards the wetlands and as you go further back the grade drops

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which results in the the difference in our uh building height calculation and it brings it up to 37.5 ft. We're not changing the roof line. the roof line staying. So, the the the um the addition will match

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the existing roof line, but it's going to be uh deeper in the back. It's going to be taller in the back just because of the grade change um under the >> B from the sky. It's going to be the same height. >> It's going to be the same It's going to be the same height. It's going to be the same height. >> It's going to be in the back of the building. You're not going to be able to

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see it from the street. That's the long and short of it. I'm happy to answer any other questions you guys may have. Let me read a couple of memos into the record. Uh planning board sent a memo to the 23rd regarding camp 234 tribe at the Thursday March 12th meeting review the

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above petition hearing from the boards. The board has no comments regarding the petition. Same email that we received for the prior petition uh hearing uh from the Hong Kong conservation commission. Uh

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Mr. Con agreed to send the proposed project at 234 K Falls Drive out to peer review. So you guys are aware of that. Correct. >> Correct. >> And that's in the process. >> Uh conservation met last night on this Tuesday. Um we had planning for

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tonight's site plan uh review. Uh that's where Jeff had come from. So all those things are progressing simultaneously. Yes sir. So uh question only question I have only because it becomes an issue I don't think it really is an issue for this

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particular property uh but from a parking standpoint is there going to be any increase um parking with the addition as far as so right now um based on our calculations there's uh 11 spaces out

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front currently and we're proposing three additional parking spaces as currently five employees. We don't think the amount of employees is going to increase at all. Um so the the proposed 14 spaces should be more than enough to

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handle on what's going on. >> Are all the spaces utilized at this point or >> No. No. There's 11 out front. There's only four to five employees. So half them are empty. include uh the the the parking along the side of

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the in the front of the building. That's the 11 spaces I'm referring to right there. Right. >> Yeah. Obviously we have height descriptions. Uh so those two falls and the fact that this is based on fact

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of the land dropping it's almost it's almost like you're making a deeper building as opposed to making a taller building. >> That is correct. >> That's a good way to What do you think? >> I think that's a perfect way to have no problem.

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>> And I don't think we have any deps asking you speak up. >> Yeah. >> Um well, we don't have anyone else in the audience to comment. So, um I guess I'll

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a motion. Uh I would um probably just uh ask to make a motion that we incorporate into that and that we decide to do move forward that it would be subject to confing

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board site review. I'll make a motion to approve the special permit conditional on uh planning board and concom review approval. >> I second it. Any further discussion?

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>> All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you for an hour and a half. That's right. Couple more rounds. Okay. >> Thanks, guys.

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>> All right. You're welcome. Good luck. I'm sure you know the routine. Tell you guys, thank you. Thanks. Okay. Uh let's see. We have meeting minutes to approve January 12th, January 15th, and February

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12th. So I'm asking tomorrow absolute 1250 January 12th. Okay, Mr. Chair. >> So why don't we go backwards then? Does one of the Chrises want to make a motion to accept the February 12th? >> Sure. I'll make a motion to accept the

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minutes from what's the date? >> February 12th. >> February 12th. >> I second. Further discussion. All in favor? I. >> Motion carries. Uh, now we can do the 12th and 15th. What's the other? I think

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we can. The three of us can do all those together. 12th 15. >> I make a motion to approve the minutes on the 12th and 15th of January. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I motion carries.

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For the record, our next meeting is we got these. Sorry, I'm going to do it in chronological order as opposed to the way it's listed here. Our next meeting is Monday, April 13th here, and it's the continuation of the Simmons Hilly Woods hearing. Remember, that will start at

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6:00. Uh, and we have our normally scheduled um April 16th, Thursday um 7:00 for our regular meeting. that uh let us know >> everything's back here. Yeah,

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everything's back. The only key is still >> Yeah, we got it. All right. Anything else come before us? Motion to >> make a motion to adjourn. >> Second. We are all in favor.

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There's a lot of talking about.