Lakeville Public Library. Uh we have uh other than approving some minutes and announcements at the end, we have one agenda item. It is specifically for the Simmons Hill LLC hearing which is being continued and it's a request for a comprehensive permit under Mass General
Law 40B to construct 200 units with four with 44 units to consist of single family homes, 46 duplex cottages catering to an older demographic and 11 and 10 unit condominium buildings of which not less than 50 of such units
shall be restricted as affordable for low or moderate income persons. of families is required under the terms of the applicable state regulations and guidelines. Uh the project is located off of Freetown Street. So, uh we have the petitioner in front of us. Uh I do
want to read one item into the record as we just board just received this this afternoon from our fire chief. Um it's from Mike O'Brien. we um please be advised and he's
referring to a memo that was or a letter that was sent out on June 17th of earlier, excuse me, June I was going to say earlier this year, but we're in 2026, but June 17th last year. So, please be advised that the attached correspondence was transmitted via certified mail to the applicant.
Delivery has been confirmed. However, this office has received no response to date. Following review of the proposed project location, the Lakeville Fire Department has formally determined that no adequate and reliable fire protection water supply currently exists within approximately 3.5 miles of the site.
Specifically, there is no municipal or approved static water source capable of meeting the required fire flow in accordance with 527 CMR 1.0 in applicable reference standards. Additionally, the recent closure of the Grace swimming pool has resulted in the loss of approximately 140,000 gallons of
previously accessible static water that had been available for the fire department through fixed plumbing connections. While not a substitute for a compliant fire protection water system, this resource had supplemental emergency operations in the surrounding area. At this time, I am not aware of any discussion by the respective boards
addressing the fire protection water deficiency identified by this department. In the absence of an engineered solution that provides an adequate and reliable fire protection, water supply construction of res residential structures at the location would not comply with five comply with
527 CMR 1.0 Massachusetts comprehensive fire safety code. Accordingly, the fire department would be unable to approve occupancy or issue required compliance documentations pursuant to mass general law chapter 148 including section 26F certificates where applicable. Please
note that the resolution of the fire protection water requirement may necessitate significant modifications to the site plan, the installation of sistns or the extension of municipal water infrastructure would require additional engineering review and regulatory approvals. The fire department remains available to provide
further clarification as needed. Uh, respectfully, Michael P. O'Brien, fire chief of Lakeville Fire Department. I read that into the record just so the applicant is aware that um you need to make sure that you are in compliance with any and all regulations when it
comes to fire safety. So, uh again, just for the record, make sure you're aware of that through this process. Having said that, I uh it's been a few months at a minimum here and you folks have uh continued as you were working on engineer [clears throat] plans and I
believe because you submitted some to us that you have some changes you're going to be proposing. So I will turn it over, identify yourself and tell us where we are. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman, for your record, uh my name is Robert Mather and um I represent the applicant. Uh and um yes,
in regard to the fire chief's letter, of course, we are certainly well aware that we must comply with the fire protection uh systems CMR. Um the letter was not ignored. Of course, that is something that we intend intended to and will
address in our um engineering uh phase. Um obviously um we have to comply with the fire protection uh requirements of CMR. quite frankly, if we can't comply with that, we can't do the project. Uh,
and intend to to do so. Um, the of course what the fire chief saw was a previous uh proposal. Uh, and one of the reasons we're here is we're making a very substantial change in the proposal
that was that was submitted. Um, so actually for [clears throat] the purposes here, I'd like to go back in time um a little bit. Um so if you uh on the board what you're going to see is two things. I believe the board has individual copies um also. The uh
initial proposal is is shown um on the top uh very briefly to show you what that that was. Um the this entire site um is and and not the original proposal.
The entire site out there that is owned by the applicant is 320 acres. Uh the original proposal was to develop uh 184.6 acres of the site which is 57% of
the site. Uh the um the proposal was 200 residential units. The first proposal had 44 single family homes uh with a minimum lot area of 10,000 square feet, minimum frontage of 80 ft. Uh there was
a proposal for as I said 44 single family homes, 46 duplex homes, uh and 110 condominium homes. Those condominium homes would have been in 11 two-story
10-unit buildings. Now, um that was we made a couple of changes off of that. Um we went from that uh to still developing just a portion of the site. uh went down to just single family
homes with a um u between individual single family all single family homes but with a mix of of uh single family uh homes with 25% affordable and also 25%
um of over 55 but that was still just developing a portion of the of the site. So during the the process um there were of course multiple issues. Um but there were two big issues. Um we we heard um
we heard the board, we heard the the public um there were two big issues. Uh um a big issue regarding traffic of course and and a couple of big questions. Um, one, um, question that
came up, uh, multiple times is, can you provide an alternate, uh, access out onto County Street? Developer owned pro uh, property out onto County Street, but it was over the portion of the property that was not proposed to be developed. Um, the other
question was, what are you going to do with the rest of the property? Um the honest answer to the rest of the property was we don't really know what it was. Um there were proposals um for uh a commercial development warehouse
use not zoned for warehouse use. There was some uh proposal by the town to reszone it for that. But that original proposal by the planning board but that that was withdrawn. um really didn't know what the rest of the property was
going to be developed for potential residential use really didn't know and we understand that that was a big question mark on the part of the um uh of the town the boards the uh the residents were doing a 200 unit 40B is
there something else coming afterwards um listening to these concerns the developer uh took a hard look at the project and has come up with what we think is a very fair compromise that uh
we believe that the town and hopefully the neighbors um would like. The new proposal develops the entire site um 100% of the of the site well almost 100%. There is an 8.8 8 uh
parcel. Uh Rammy, can you point to that um on that? There's an 8.8 parcel out on County Street right up there in the corner that we're going to leave for potential commercial development. I'm going to talk about what that means, but
all the rest of the property is going to be developed. So there's no longer any question about what are you going to do with the rest of the property because all the rest of that property is being left as um as open area cannot will not be be developed. The new proposal
develops 100% of the site. In addition to that to solve the other big issue that was brought up is there's going to be an a third entrance and exit out onto County Street right where Ramy's showing right there. Uh so you'll see that that
will provide a third. The other two um entrances remain the same. Uh that's going to give an al alternate uh access out onto County Street. You'll notice that is just north of the interchange.
Um the uh so this is developing instead of developing 57% of the the site as was originally proposed this develops the entire site. Um if you were to do some
calculations you would see that the open space that's being left is 57.3% of the entire parcel. The proposal is 199 single family dwellings. There's
going to be a mix um between um regular, we'll call it regular single family and age restricted. [clears throat] There's going to be 141 lots. What what Ramy is circling there, that's the age restricted. Uh there's going to be 55,
I'm sorry, 58 over 55 age restricted. That's right at the entrance to the the new entrance out onto out onto County Street. The remainder of the property is regular, no age restricted. It still, of
course, is an affordable home project. That means that 25% or 50 of the the lots would be affordable, restricted for affordable use. that 50 will be
proportionately divided between the over 55 and the um the non age restricted. As far as the lot sizes, the average lot size, well, let's start with the
frontage. the um the non-age restricted the all those lots will have 100 ft of of frontage and the average um lot size is is just over it's 20,000 square foot
plus uh the minimum lot size is 15,000 so with frontage of 100 ft on the age restricted the um average lot size is 12,000 square ft and those lots all have 90 ft of of
frontage. For reference point, if anyone has been through uh this developer's other project at Learon, the single family dwellings there have an average lot size of 8,000 square ft. So you can see that
these are almost three times the size of what is at at Learon. [snorts] So again, as I mentioned, very important. The new proposed access provides a third access directly out onto County Street. [snorts]
Although we of course believe that this can do nothing but improve the traffic impact of the project. We've ordered a new traffic study um which we expect to have in two weeks.
We're going to present that to the uh to the board as soon as it's it's received. uh the other issues we're kind of starting over again. So if you remember the way we we did it last time we we
addressed certain issues the big issues that we know needed to be addressed. First one was traffic. So we presented a traffic u study. We brought in an engineer who made a presentation to the board. Um the board sent that to your
review engineer. he came in and he made his traffic study. We [clears throat] we'd like to do an abbreviated um presentation of that. We don't think it would be necessary to do two meetings there. What we'd like to do is submit a
new traffic study, which as I mentioned, we would have ready in a couple of weeks. Um, and I suggest that the board submit that to your traffic review engineer and maybe we could then have a meeting with both engineers. No need to
have a separate one. Bring them both in. Uh, we'll make our presentation and then the um town review engineer can make his or her review of that. Um our
other issues how we differ from the original proposal. Uh septic for example [snorts] in the original proposal there was going to be a sewage treatment plant. This project will not require a sewage treatment plant. There will be
nine um septic systems. You can see them there. There's nine of them. Uh they will serve uh each one will serve 18 to 19 dwellings. Uh the systems will pump I
believe is it 9,000 about 900 >> 9,000 gallons per day. They're presby septic systems. Um the um water uh in the previous submission there was going to be a community well.
In uh this submission, there'll be individual wells on the on the lots. Uh again, the wells will be located in the front yards. Um there's plenty of room because there's 100 ft of of frontage. Uh so there's no issues with any
setbacks in regard to any of the uh any of the septic systems. We also do want to note because we've mentioned to the board in the past and it's been talked about whether there's a possibility of bringing water in from
the city of New Bedford through Freetown. Um that's still a possibility. Um my client is willing to participate in that um and to share in in a potential cost of that.
Again, provided it can be done timely um so that it is time for this project. That's still a possibility. Um it's not something that we can do uh just for this project. It's too big of a project
that would have to be shared with the um town. I know the town is interested um in having this for the school. I know there's some other proposed projects down down the road a bit. So that's uh [clears throat] excuse me that's still a
possibility. Um [snorts] I did mention the um um the um fire uh suppression systems. Again of course that's an important issue and of course we have to comply with the CMR
regulations and if we can't we can't do the project. Um we uh that is something one of the first things that we will do with the engineering. Um we and now that we know again assuming it's a big assumption assuming that the board is
okay with this new concept uh and okays us to go to engineering for this uh one of the very first things we'll do is because that will affect the type of um project that we engineer will work closely with the fire chief on fire uh
protection systems. Um, let me mention that uh commercial lot that I mentioned, 8.8 acres, Ramy, again up in the the corner on County Street. What we've uh learned is that
the ZBA actually has just like the ZBA has the authority to wave dimensional requirements. So when somebody comes in with a 40B project, uh the you can wave frontage requirements. The normal
frontage requirements is 175 ft of frontage, uh 70,000 square ft lots. You can wave that. Um you can wave all the dimensional requirements. Uh it's our belief that you can wave usage requirements. Um and so we would propose
a possible commercial development of that 8.8 8 acres. Um we understand that this would need to be um approved through Mass Housing and that Lakeville Town Council would have to agree with it. But I want to make sure you
understand this is not a contingency. We're not here saying that we'll only do this new proposal if we can develop this piece for proposed commercial. Not the case. We're doing this. We're proposing this new project. We think that having a
commercial area would be a benefit to a project like this. Um it could be there could be some small um retail uses um such as small restaurants uh small retail dry cleaner um uses that would be
uh acceptable and would be beneficial to a 200 unit subdivision and this the houses in the area. Again, not a contingency, something that we believe that um if uh the mass housing confirms
that it's something that can be done and the board likes the proposal, it's something that we would like to uh uh to suggest. The um we also understand as as I mentioned, we're kind of starting over again, right? So, what did we do last
time too? We had a meeting regarding um archaeological issues. Um we hired um a company that did an archaeological study. The company, they didn't go, they didn't study the entire uh site because we
weren't going to disturb the entire site. Um we're still not disturbing the entire uh site, but yes, we are disturbing some areas that weren't proposed to be disturbed before. So that means we got to do another study or not
a full study of course we need to supplement the study that was done uh before. Um so we are contacting uh PLA public archaeological laboratories. We're going to ask them to do a supplement to the to the study. Um and
that's something that we would present to the board. We're willing to work um with um the board. Um, we're also willing to work to preserve the um open space um areas um as far as um who who
helps us to preserve that in in the future as to who will own that and who will maintain that. We're open to to suggestions and regard to the uh to the open area. Um so again, sort of a of a
of a recap. Um if you um if you divide the entire site by the number of units, surprisingly it comes out to um one unit
every 70,200 square ft. interesting because 70,000 square feet is what our zoning bylaw requires for um a single family dwelling. Um so it is
a cluster development is what it really is because that's what a cluster development is. You take an entire site um where um your development would be on 70,000 square foot lots rather than checkerboard it up to 70,000 square foot
lots. using up basically every inch of the site. You develop it on smaller lots and you keep the open space available. Um we don't have cluster zoning in Lakeville. We will hopefully
soon. Um but um this we're not this isn't cluster zoning, but it works like cluster zoning. We're taking a an entire site um and we're uh we're developing it in such a manner that the effective use
of it is equal to a um a cluster development. So I'd like to ask um if the board has any any questions again. So what would I like to see tonight? Uh well I would like to um get the board's blessing to
go forward. Um forward means um go to engineering um or go further with this. Um the as I've suggested our next immediate step I think should be traffic. It's always been and will be
continue to be the the biggest issue. Um we're ready will be ready in two weeks um with our study. Um whether the board feels we can make it in time for the March meeting, it's up to you. Um or the
April meeting, uh my suggestion is that we do it with both [clears throat] our um traffic engineer and your traffic engineer. Um and then we proceed from there. Um we'd like to do
we'd like to go forward with um the archaeological study and we know we've got issues with the conservation commission. We got a little bit of a problem right now because of the weather. Um can't do that until the um
snow leaves and the ground unfreezes. Um but um if we address the traffic first, by the time we take care of that, I think it would be appropriate for us to move on with those other issues. So at this point, if the board has any questions or anyone else has any
questions, we'd like to hear what you think of our new proposal. Uh so I think what we'll start off with is um I guess I I'd open it up to the to the board to see if they have any questions or what they think of the new concept. I
mean, in theory, you're to kind of sum everything up, you're going to develop the whole property, so it'll be there'll be more open space overall. Correct. >> Correct. >> Um the only thing [clears throat] in addition to the residential development
that you're talking about is the 8.8 acres, which you want to leave for commercial, which I um believe what you said and and I do believe it is correct, but we'll obviously confirm it with council that >> but not a contingent, >> right? We'll have the we have the ability to turn around. Yes. And permit
that. Uh but if for some reason it doesn't work out or we don't like it or the state says you can't do it or some issue there, it's not contingent. If that doesn't work out, >> you're not holding anyone hostage. Just say we need that in order to get this. >> Um
you're still open to the possibility of the water line from New Bedford. Understood. Uh I heard you loud and clear. You guys can't literally handle that all yourself from a cost standpoint, but in addition to your development, you'd be willing to participate in getting it up to the schools as well.
>> Not guaranteed or anything, but if it works out, you're you're open to that. Uh, >> absolutely. >> Okay. Um, we have a second uh means of egress, we'll call it, or an entry uh down by county um street, which I know
was a big issue that a lot of the residents had uh live up there, but in general around town just cuz that's the that's the main thoroughare, we'll call it, to the schools, uh which they were concerned we're going to add a lot more traffic uh at that point. So, I do have
one question in regards to that and obviously um you know, we'll have our traffic engineer review uh your revised plans. The um you were going to you were going to add an extra lane down the bottom. Does that change this or are we waiting to hear from the traffic?
[clears throat] Um from uh Mr. Chairman, my name is Muhammadi. I'm part of the uh development team. Uh initial uh talk with our traffic engineer. He's saying there is no need to have the four-way
stop sign anymore. It does not meet this the requirement to allow for a for a three-way stop sign at that intersection with Freetown Street. Uh the name itself, the right hand turn now it it's not we can still add it. We said it's no
longer needed because the tra a lot of the traffic that's going to make a right from our community is going to be taking uh the new access from County Street. Uh we're probably still going to keep it but it's I don't think it's going to be required but it will improve the
condition of the intersection the way it exists today. Okay. >> Uh but again he had to come up with his final report. [clears throat] uh you know he mentioned to me that that intersection what we were trying to do is put
>> it's not required to redesign it to the extent you were but if our engineer comes after your engineer reviews it and and and we believe it's a benefit you're still willing to add that extra lane if it's going to help resolve traffic issues which there are traffic issues up
there anyway so we may benefit from getting >> extra lane he said he the point he was actually bringing at one time we he suggested that We put three-way stop signs >> right at the intersection. He's saying now it doesn't meet that requirement and
and mass DOT probably will not approve it. Apparently there are certain requirements certain number of cars going through that intersection that would that would would make it acceptable to DOT. Now we fall under that threshold.
>> Understood. Um, and if the board's consensus is we think this is a better option and want to move forward with it, uh, I guess this is repetitive, but we're going to go through each step again regard I mean, I'm not saying it needs to start from scratch, but obviously because of the
supplemental nature of what you guys are doing here. We'd want to We already said the traffic study, we we'd need that updated. We'd need the archaeological updated. Obviously, you haven't given us engineering plans at this point. That's the reason we continued it for so long. But uh we would need to get those as
well. You need to deal with concom. So >> without going down the laundry list, I don't want to say we're going to start from scratch, but whatever we haven't done, we're going to need to do. And whatever has changed, we're going to need to update all of that information. >> That's correct. And understand that
we've been working on on the engineering. So they've been perking. And so it's it's not like >> it's not like we're going to continue this for another nine months. >> That's right. So >> that's right. We've been well along on the engineering. >> Okay. Um I get this point I [clears throat] will uh I'll open it up
to the rest of the the board to uh comment or ask questions about the revisions. >> One question. Road Breetown Street, the entrance that the residents had a problem with or the most problem with, I'd say.
Any chance you're willing to get rid of that entrance at all? Fix it. >> Uh, which one? >> Road B, which is just after the corner on Freetown Street, where everyone keeps saying it's a bad corner. >> The new entrance, the new entrance you're creating, the existing one is already there.
>> My feeling is that the fire department would require some kind of access over there. >> Okay. >> Uh, and if the fire department determines that they only need an emergency eress, so this will be gated where the fire department can can go through it, but it will not be open to
traffic. But I I we're going to be talking to the to the chief so and then we will listen to his recommendations. Uh I've heard that floated before and and we're we're willing and open to do it. Yeah. Okay.
>> So the fire chief's approval. >> So if the fire chief is you're not married to having have that >> open to everyone. the fire chief says it's safe and the consensus they'd rather not have it open to the public to cut down on the traffic. You're fine with that? >> That's correct. >> Okay.
>> I have two questions. Good. >> You're up. >> Um so I'm curious to hear a little bit more on the statement you made about um the water line and potentially running a waterline into the development into your
community, right? And what you meant by sharing, right? I put that in quotes because that's what you stated, right? So, I'd like you to kind of expand on that a little bit more for me. Um, give me kind of an expectation of how that would work, like where you're running
the water line up into the community. Okay, that's the first question. The second question is, you know, I feel like there's like this is obviously going to be impacting a lot of the butters that are on Freetown Street and potentially on the back side of that area, right? So I imagine and I can
point to that too if you particularly uh lots 1 through 7 85 to uh 87 here these this cluster and these down here like I don't know how close these are to existing homes in those neighborhoods
right but I imagine when they built their homes and envisioned kind of their lots that they wouldn't have neighbors as close in proximity proximity to their existing homes. Right. So, what I'm
asking you, Mr. Aratani, is will you consider providing some more relief for those abutters with those lots 1 through 7, 85 through 87, 188 through 199 to give them a little more space. They
don't have to see these new neighbors right in their backyard. they're looking into their new bedrooms, right? Not only that, they're looking at the noise and the disruption of the with construction, right? So, to me, that's a major disruption. And I don't know how that
impacts the valuation. I'm not something, you know, I'm not a forecaster of how those might impact their home values, but I'm sure that's going to be somewhat impactful if you could see as someone's new house. It's right straight through your backyard. Okay. So, those are my two questions. One is the water line and two is those
abuing lots. >> Well, the water line, it all depends on the total cost of the water line. If if uh I I know that the property uh down the street from the school, uh they're looking they they would like to share in
the cost of the water line as well. So, we have the school as well as well as the 600 acres down the street from the school. uh uh and and and this property if all three of us will share in the
cost of it as long as the share the cost is reasonable you know we're willing to to uh participate in it will be you know to us the benefit is that I don't have to drill 100 99 wells
uh so so we'll look at the cost and we'll we'll determine whatever cost they come up with if it's feasible for us to participate or not. >> Okay. So, who's taken the
who's going to make the exercise of actually doing the cost assessment for the construction of running that water line? I mean, um, my understanding is that the owners of the property, uh, the 600 acres are talking to the town or to
somebody and, uh, and they're interested in in bringing it in. And I said, I will participate. I was approached and and I said, I'll be happy to participate if if that plan ever happens. Uh, now, of
course, there's timing issues. If it's going to take 10 years for that water line to become a reality, I don't think we will we'll be able to wait. If it's something that's going to happen within a year or two, we'll be more than happy to participate in the cost uh running it
up to our community. Uh that's that's the the answer to to the water thing. So, Muhammad, let me cut you off one second here to to maybe make a, you know, a reminder here um to get some more clarity to to Jerry's question, which I'm I'm interested in as
well. I think a lot of people are is let's make that um a talking point at our next meeting whether we you know you need to reach out to the town to to get some more um information as far as you know and I and I understand there's there's other components to this that
that are out of your control but I think it would be helpful for us and everybody to understand exactly what that entails and what we mean by we say we're we're willing to participate. I have no doubt you're willing to participate, but if we're willing to participate, but the towns are saying, "Listen, we're just
not going to sign off on this or we don't want to participate or somebody else their participation is $100, that's not really going to help anybody here." So, at least give us a better understanding. Um, >> I mean, it's going to be significant. The the the I think it was around 3 months or something. So, we're looking
at four million cost. >> Well, my point is we don't know. We you don't we nobody has all that information. So maybe let's make a concerted effort to try to gather as much information. >> The town will have to spearhead that discussion with Freetown and New Veteran >> because we're bringing the town to
Lakeville and and there is a benefit to the school that serves Lakeville and Freetown. So I would think three town again I don't know but Freetown will be aminable to to allow the water line to run through Freetown because it's going
to be picking up the water line from Freetown. but using New Bedford water that Lakeville has an allocation from that water as well. And they do have the capacity. We we met with the town uh of of New Bedford and they did did
acknowledge that they have the capacity to to serve those communities we're talking about. >> No, understood. But we'll let's let's make sure we get an update as to to where that is. >> And it's important to note we started the process here. We met with the city of New Bedford to see if this was
possible. Um, and >> right, this isn't the first time this this came up months ago. >> We started it. We went to them to see if they would consider this and they said that they would. They had the availability. We have to we have to go through Freetown also. They thought
Freetown was uh would be amendable to it. But again, you know, Muhammad can't pay the $4 to5 million. It doesn't make sense. Um, and when we're talking his participation, we're not talking $4 to5 million, but we're not talking $100.
We're talking a a a good substantial participation in it, >> probably in the million dollar range up to our property. So, so if the school is doing something and the other property is doing something else. So, even by bringing it up to our property, we still
have to put the infrastructure and the fire hydrants and all those things within our properties. Something along the neighborhood of a million dollar is reasonable. >> Okay. When you say the schools, you mean the towns. So >> yes, I mean it's it's Freetown and Lakeville, right? Because it's >> what would be helpful is we get it. I
think we need some more information because if if Freetown, for example, or Lakeville says we want nothing to do with this, it kind of stops. >> That's correct. >> So let's let's find out and have that conversation started. My understanding is that they need water at the school
and and because their wells are not functioning properly. So it it becomes the the call of >> your understanding is correct. Yes. It would be beneficial to the school. So sorry the second question that Jerry had regards to the neighbors setbacks. >> Yeah. As far as the setbacks, we really
>> don't have too much room uh to try. Now, I know those houses and those lots look tiny, but those are halfacre lots. So, uh you know, if you look at the at the width of the house that's proposed, that's a 60 60 foot wide. So, if you
look at the 60 foot, the backyard is another 120 ft. >> And then the the the neighbors, the houses sit closer to Freetown Street rather than to the back. So probably there's going to be 300 feet separation between the houses the back of houses
the way the way things exist today. Uh the ones on the left there's we left a lot of open space because we can >> which ones are you talking about now? >> The ones uh number >> are you talking about 85 >> 80 to 87. You can see there's a lot of
open space behind those those lots. Uh once the screen Yeah. So there is already a lot of space left over there. Uh the ones that are at the entrance were really limited by the wetland line and and having to have houses on both
sides. Uh you know I I think this and and the ones that go on the other side as well. There's a huge separation between us. >> Yeah, I'm not familiar with that area, but I know Freetown Street. I've seen the houses on Freetown Street
side like I was asking. Can I piggy back a question since you got a question? >> Um, the lots on the left. So, the depth of the lot, how >> how much preservation
woods and um trees will be left. >> Will you will you keep a tree line there or you going to clear cut the lot? >> Uh, yeah, we can we can keep we can keep, you know, a 20 foot tree line. Yeah, we can keep a 20ft tree line.
>> You know what what actually is the depth of the lot? >> Uh Ronnie, we had another plan that superimposed the subdivision on existing tree tree canopy. Uh oh, here you go. So, if you can if you don't mind. Yeah. Zoom out. You can see
where the houses on Freetown Street are. Uh they're pretty far from the backyards of those houses that we're proposing. >> I'm actually >> talking about the those are those lots are around 200 ft deep. The ones that we
have and again those look really tiny but remember this is a 300 acre site and to fit it on a page things look much smaller than they really are. Uh so >> so 180 ft >> around 180. Yeah. [clears throat]
>> Preserving 20. >> So I don't mind preserving a tree a tree line on on both sides of of >> I would think especially in the winter time when like there's no foliage.
>> 20 [snorts] 20 ft doesn't seem >> backyard to backyard or back of house to back of house. We're looking at 300 ft. >> At least 300 ft. >> Perhaps we can provide you with some information on the actual distances. >> Okay, sure. >> That would be helpful. Yeah.
>> Why don't you provide provide the distances and then figure out how the biggest tree line you can you can leave. >> Okay. >> Because the more tree line the better, >> right? >> Yeah, we can do that. >> Yeah. >> Are we able to ask questions? >> Yeah, you will. You'll have time. Yeah. It goes through just so for anybody who
hasn't been before, the board will ask questions, then I'll ask for public comment. question. >> And for the record, you're going to ask questions to the board. You're not necessarily going to get answers all the time because the applicant isn't isn't required to answer them, but um [sighs] but you will you will have time for
public comment. >> So, can I Oh, Chris, go ahead. >> Uh back to the water. Um when you talk about the 600 acre site, I'm guessing it's the one on Holland Road. >> Yeah. >> And if that's the case, would you envision the water line or they envision the water line going down Holland Road and not Freetown Street?
Uh yeah, I mean we're going to look at the total cost and we will decide how to divide it, but I I would think our share up to our law our to our side should be around a million dollars. >> But would you envision it coming from the how's it going to get there and what roads are going to be used?
>> There is too much wetlands to cross. We do have access. You can see it that in red back we do have access from Holland but it's not it's not accessible. Even though we [clears throat] do have the land that implies it is not accessible. >> Well, I guess what I'm getting at if the development on Holland is part of this,
would they be proposing that go down Holland >> and then you'd have to say no, we really want to go down county and up Freetown >> for this project. >> We'll go up Freetown and then we would enter into the access road that we were just talking about.
>> Okay. Just to confirm that you're there's water I know coming up on county past 140 right that's >> county it's coming down from Holland it's coming down from the back >> Holland okay I thought there was water underneath up to 140 on county
>> because that was the original discussion last year >> not to my knowledge >> okay quick question on the development um do we know stage the arman I I I
don't know anything about it all I know is that you know I got a phone call say would be willing to participate and I said true >> I'm just trying to think like what the likelihood of all three parties getting in sync on timing that would soon
development >> last last time I >> seems like a lot of moving parts >> I think a 20% chance if I remember correctly when we were in the meeting I would like to do it I would I mean it definitely he will help us uh you know I mean uh
as long as it's it's done [clears throat] the time timing is going to be an issue. I see time as being an issue. Those projects can take a long time for approvals. Um I can see that as an issue. So it all depends how fast the town moves.
Is there a way to um >> I'm not sure how you could structure it, but is there a way to participate even if the timing is not lined up? >> Well, I think that would be more so on the other project because if they're
going to start later because I I know that there's I don't know exactly what's going to happen up there, but I I do know they want to eventually develop it. So they may be a little behind them but I think to your point if they maybe if you know >> ultimately and that's why rather than delve too deep into this let's get an
update at the next meeting subsequent meetings but long story short would be >> maybe they commit to participating now so that that allows you to start when you're going to start. So um but again it's we're kind of talking about whatifs at this point. So
>> um other questions from the Did you have another one Chris? >> Jerry you good for now? I have two more. >> Go for it. >> Okay. Um, one just, uh, going back to the abuing, um, you have a septic system, you know, up at the top close
to, uh, Freetown Street. Just a concern about, you know, how that is going to be managed. You know, I'm not quite sure. >> Is that where where which one is that? >> That septic system next to blocks 1 through eight or 1 through 7.
>> And then the second thing is >> this one. >> Yeah. Yep. >> I mean, that's going to be a regular septic system. It's it's no different than the septic system that people have in their houses. >> U and we're using the Presby system, which is a lot a lot more environmentally sensitive than than
what's what what is used in in a home uh system. >> Okay. Um and then the last question I have is, you know, I noticed with this new proposal, there's not any open space um concept provided. In other words,
there's no kind of parks or walking. I don't know what sidewalks if you're providing. >> There's going to be sidewalks at least on one side on one side of the street. >> The open space. >> Oh, the open space itself to try to to to do like >> Well, you got accommodated 199 households, right? So, it would be good
to have some kind of open space >> like walking paths or a >> a park area, whatever, right? >> To accommodate everybody. >> I mean, it the whole the whole site is walkable. I mean, the front of the site is is very thick. The vegetation is very
thick, but in the back, it really isn't. It's very easy to walk through it and there isn't much vegetation. Uh, so what I mean, I don't know if the board, you know, I mean, now it's it's probably not feasible, but in the future, if you walk the site, [snorts]
technically the road because we were doing perks all over the place. So, and we st the road the way it shows on the plan and then we did per tests on right and left every 400 ft or something just to to tell us the the the soil
conditions over there. So, it's actually walkable now. The whole site is is walkable. uh you know and then if you want to start doing uh uh uh card pass and stuff like that that creates issues with with
conservation and stuff like that we'd rather stay away uh from >> Okay, sorry I got one more actually. So with this development you're not going to do this in phases. This is all going to be one phase. Is that correct? No, we're commit we're committed [clears throat] to what we said in the
past that for the market for the for the uh for the market rate houses, we'll limit it to 20 houses uh per year. >> Y >> and this way it will it will allow the town to absorb the extra uh uh students at the schools or traffic and it it it's
going to be a five, six, sevenyear uh project, >> right? So when do the affordable units become constructed and made available? when do >> at the same at the same time. So every three market rates that we build, we have to do an affordable one.
>> Just one more question. >> You guys can have as many questions as you want. That's what we're here for. >> I'm just curious on the the ledge. Um do you have any information on like how substantial that is? >> It's not bad at all. Actually, we were surprised because we did a lot of
protests in there. Uh there are outcroppings where where we show them on the plan. Uh but anything outside of that is nice gravel. >> Yeah. But the depth of the ledge like >> we we did our our per test and so
observation down to 12 ft. So most of them we did not encounter any immediately around those boulders. You can see that the graph the ground you know dropping but past that we don't have any. Okay, >> you know, I'm sure we'll get a hit edge
every now and then, >> right? >> But it's not it's not as bad as it looks. >> You can give us a little more detail. >> You can uh >> Sorry. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He was just asking a question about ledge and I'm going to follow up.
>> Yeah. Oh, I'm going to follow up right now. Um he said there wasn't much but what I was going to recommend is that when we get engineering back make sure they incorporate uh how much light >> they they will have the sole data actually. Yes. >> Good.
>> Good for now. Good. Thank you. Okay. So at this point what I'm going to do is invite anyone who has public comment come on up. State your name, your address, and then ask the question or make a public comment through me. And if
it's a comment, that's great. If it's a question, um, we'll try to answer it or we'll ask the petitioner if they would like to answer it. Uh, again, they're not obligated to answer anything. It's just for us to take in the information or questions or concerns that, uh,
anyone at the meeting has. >> It's right here. >> Yeah, right there. That's the one. Yep. >> Good evening. Hi. >> Just state your name and your address for the record, please, sir. >> My name is Daryl Wixon. I'm from the
Wanog Nation. I live in Mashby, 149 meeting Ell Road. My family comes from this area. I come from the line of Tuskin, Chief Tusquin. I've been coming to this place since I
was a kid. My uncle used to take me here. There's nothing that can be done to alter this that would be environmental. Any alteration to this place
will be a devastating outcome. This area has burial sites in there. It's also a place where our ceremonies were done for thousands of years. to alter this place
will devastate the people that are living in this place. You know, all our relatives, the animals, the birds, what have you. There's a circle and this is a circle of
life. And then there's other areas that have already been disrupted. They can be used for your purpose. what you need it for. But this place here,
you're making a bad decision. And when since you don't come from the area, you have no passion for this place. I don't know how long I'll be on this planet, but I would like to save this place for
our children to enjoy, be able to see what the place looks like when they reach our ages. So I recommend that this place does not get touched. Oh my relations.
[applause] >> Go ahead. Was there a a phase one? Name is uh Jonathan Wixon. I'm uh his son. >> Okay. >> Um I live at uh right outside West Point. Do I have to give my exact address or I I have three different addresses. >> I'm sorry. What' you say? >> Three different address. Like
>> what's your your home address? >> Uh 71 Church Street. It's in Alexander B. >> Perfect. Okay. >> Um was there a like a phase one or phase two uh conducted in this area as well? >> Is in regards to this project? >> Yes. Y no. this
>> is that required before you guys [clears throat] uh perform a development or I'm not sure about about Massachusetts. >> No, this is a 40B that needs to get a uh it needs to clear some hurdles with the state first and once they receive their um okay then it comes to us. So that's
where we are at this at this juncture. >> And then the archeological study that was that was completed um did they did they bring up anything I addressed it to you guys right? Did they bring up anything uh in regard to any kind of burial sites or, you know, the community using this area for some of the stuff
that my father just mentioned? >> They didn't bring up anything that again, the original proposal that they submitted, there was nothing that was going to be disturbed um that was of concern, but like I said, they're going to go back and redo [clears throat] the areas that they haven't uh they haven't touched at this point. So, >> Okay. And then you said that you guys
are going to be doing the next two weeks and there's roughly about a foot and a half of snow out there. I mean, could we >> the next two weeks they're referenced with is the traffic study. They have all and basically what they're going to go do because they're adding a second entrance now. Okay, what a lot of people asked for. So, we're going to
>> get that finished. It'll get submitted to us. Our engineer will review it and then we'll we'll reconvene at that point. That's the first step. As far as >> going out and finishing the archaeological study or doing conservation, the petitioner actually referred to they probably can't do any of that right now because there's
>> exact Okay, then we're on the same page now out there. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. >> I Yeah, I have more questions, but I'll just talk to my dad. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Who else? I'm sure we have some
other questions or comments. >> My name is James Andrew from PSA Lakeville. I'd like to know who's going to finance this project. >> Who's going to finance the project? >> What bank is going to finance this project? Where they get their money from? builders project.
>> I have no idea and um I'm I'm hesitant, but I'll go ahead and ask. They have no obligation to to get into that aspect of it as far as I'm concerned. So, >> is there a LLC? You know what an LLC is? >> I do know what an LLC is, sir. >> Limited liability corporations.
>> So, >> limited liability corporation. So just for the record so everyone's clear, you know, what we're looking at is the site and what they're developing and safety issues and meet certain compliance issues, not not the funding source. Uh the funding >> that should be also important for the
town and make them flow to bond just in case if they they can't get their finance and they start this project and they pull out, we're stuck with this mess. >> Understood. >> Understood. >> Understood. because I spent 34 years a revenue wage and I see these LLC's and I
see these projects go under the bank comes first the federal government second the state second the town is gone >> you are correct >> okay >> hello reservoir act um I don't know you know when you began your talk you
mentioned the the minor problem of the traffic which is the traffic is one of the problems but there are other issues that you haven't mentioned mentioned here that are significant. One of them being the bedrock in there, which it's not just a matter of building these
houses. In order to build these houses, you're talking about blasting operations. Blasting operations in a heavily populated area already. So, you're talking about the impacts on people that live in these neighborhoods, the their
foundations, their wealth. So, there's that. So there there's the geological problem with that. There's the archeological implications. Then there's the water issue. And it doesn't sound like you've really
made the plans for the water yet. And by the way, um, if you're talking about involving the town financially and paying for the water, I think you might want to watch >> Watch out. That's on wheels. you might want to watch some of the the meetings and get a better sense of where this
town is financially because we can't help you. >> I don't know how how else to put it. Um, pay attention to what's going on in Lakeville because we can't help you. And and there are other issues I'm not even going to go into those septic
installments. I I really don't know what to say about all that, but visually visually if you want to get an idea what this going to look like, go into Lebaron because that's what it's probably going to look like unless there is some kind
of changes made. But those other those other things are critical, the water blasting operations. Let's talk about these fundamental things before we start talking about the the other details which it seems like you're putting before the fundamental
of this project. Thank you. >> Do we have anyone else who has a question or a comment? >> She brought up something that I wanted to was there an environmental impact statement uh completed? Is there an environmental impact
statement completed? >> Yeah, something like they they do a biological inventories uh you know local plant life um the you know local habitats which you brought up with water in New York we have a like a department environmental conservation they usually monitor >> so they have to go through what's called
conservation commission um which is outside of this board this board if conservation commission doesn't allow it never makes it past this board so they do have to go through that process it's just not with this board. >> Okay. All right. >> Hello, Sue.
>> Hi, Susan Spieler, 10 Valley Road. Question on the commercial property. How can the zoning be changed if it doesn't go to town meeting? I don't understand how the zoning board can just change that zoning. >> Well, we all learn stuff all the time, and I didn't realize that to up until a
few weeks ago. Um, and based on the size of the project, and I don't want to get into too much detail only because I'm not um I'm not legal counsel and not overly versed in it, but based on the size of a project and and I can ask council to explain that uh for the
petitioner, but um there is the ability for us to carve out one section and and permit it for that. So, >> and this is coming from town council. >> Town council. Yes. >> Okay. Right. Thank you.
>> Do you want to expand on that at all? >> Attorney Mion before the regard to zoning as a board knows you you wave uh to do a project like this you wave significant aspects of the zoning. You wave frontage requirement,
you wave area requirement, you can wave setback requirement, you can wave um multiple aspects of the zoning. according to what we've learned that you can also wait usage requirements.
But again, um if we're what we're saying is that we're willing to have that verified by u council uh and mass housing and if that's possible and the board is willing to do it, we'd like to entertain it. If
it's not possible, then can't be done. >> Excuse me. I believe Mr. chairman. Uh in one of the planning board meetings that they were discussing this community, one of the board members suggested that why not create like a small shopping
area that will basically service the community, right? A pizza shop or a donut shop or or one of those things that a bikini or um so something like this, we're not doing anything in area. We're not we're not planning on anything of that nature.
a small uh shopping center that will basically serve the community and and maybe an office building, a small office. >> Okay. Just for clarification, u and I probably should have pointed this out when when we we talk about the ability to change the zoning. Uh we don't
literally change the zoning on that site. We allow for something that's not permitted based on the what what zone it is is it is in in town. Uh and We do this, we've done this in the past,
and it usually happens when you have a commercial zone piece of property on, and I'll use the example of Highland Road, which is like between all these other residentials. We allow people to build residential. It doesn't change the
underlying zoning. It just allows them to do it. And my understanding, and again, we'll get clarification, this is kind of the same thing that we'd be doing um here. It literally doesn't change the zoning um of that parcel of land. It just changes the usage. So again, I don't want to dig a hole too
deep for myself here. Um but we will confirm everything with with council and make sure it's uh it is we have the ability and it's legal to do it if we even decide to do it. Again, we they've clarified what they're looking for is in contingent on this. So if we decide we don't think it's a good idea and don't
want to allow for it, uh we can say no as well. Sir, >> how are you? Uh, good evening. Troy Currents, member of the Wanog Nation. I'm from the Her Pond Village. Um, I know I've heard some of my relatives and one of my elders speak and he's telling you guys that there's burials in there.
And, uh, I'm pretty sure that you guys did an archeological evaluation, a test. I I think someone said that, but has anyone reached out to the fedally recognized tribes, Mashby and Aquina? I believe at this point I'm going to ask
uh because we did bring this this up uh yeah months back when this was first proposed the original version and we did ask if uh because I'm sure as you well know >> the the area you're discussing is federally overseen. It has it's not overseen by the local or even by the
state. So we did uh want to confirm that there were no federal restrictions or anything that that shouldn't be being touched out there. So did you can you confirm do is there any concerns or from a federal standpoint that we know about? >> Yeah, either one is
uh I don't know if you recall we had a member of the PAL uh staff come in. They actually walked the property with a member of a tribe and they submitted their report to the board and they did not see anything of significance
uh on the site. >> Okay. >> Okay. Since >> we're going to we're going to be doing the the right side looking at the screen because we did not do that in our first study. We did the left side. >> Right. Okay. So, what I would encourage
you also to do is obviously there are and I'm complet this is not my area of expertise, but if you federal government and they tell us that there's stuff out there that's not supposed to be touched, bring it back to us, please. >> Uh, and I'm curious who you guys consulted from these tribes that you
said walked the land with you. >> Uh, Matina Washington, I believe, was the person that >> Patina Washington. Yep. And did you contact David Weeden? >> Okay, hang on. Listen, if you have information, >> did you contact David Weeden? >> I didn't, but if you have information
that tells us that they're not supposed to touch it. >> Yep. >> Or there's areas that they cannot develop, >> please let us. >> Okay. >> Let us know. >> I'll get you guys contact information. I'll I'll call David tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is uh Rosario Miss
Wixson. I'm Daryl's wife and uh I live at 149 meeting house road in Mashpi. And one question that I have about the environmental impact, the archaeological studies needed for a development of this
sort is if the town of Lakeville has looked into the massive production of King Leonard and the the late Kin Leonard now, who to my knowledge
was one of the local if not national experts on this area and I don't see that any of his work would really support what is now being presented by the board by the zoning
board um here I don't know if that has been uh researched and is backing up any of this just curious >> nothing has been presented to us again if you have any information or something that uh
that that dictates or tells us that uh from a regulatory or legal standpoint that they're not supposed to proceed, please bring it to our attention. >> Yes. The burial sites and the massive uh rock formations that would be blasted
that are part of millinary constructions and and all that. I think that um that was partly documented by the late Ken Leonard. So um we will Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Good evening. >> Hi. >> Um my name is Karina Silva. I'm a herring pond wampenog woman and also a swampset mascet wampenog. Daryl's my cousin. Um, and I'm also a a local practicing
attorney, and there are too many concerns to even cover here tonight over this development. Uh, this is unreal to me. Um, it's on a wetland. I mean, and you know, your board, whatever
decision you make is going to be setting precedent. And you know, I understand that every variance has a separate hearing, but [clears throat] they're going to point to this. And if this is allowed, what's next? This is one of the most culturally significant places for
all of the Wampaog communities, not just my tribe, not just Mashbby, not just Aquina. And I'm shocked that Betatina would say that there's no burials or nothing here that can be disturbed because there's going to be thousands of them. This is a huge site and it's left
undeveloped for a reason. And I understand that housing is important. Of course, we have to provide housing, lowincome housing. I grew up in public housing. I know all about it. But I also worked my butt off to become an attorney. And I know that there's things that need to be preserved as
well. And there's sites that are already disturbed that you could build something like this on. Why are we going to destroy such a special sacred area for for housing when there's other places that you could put it that won't require these discussions with New Bedford and
bringing in water and all the sewage and the blasting that the neighbors are are going to have to withstand? I mean, this is this is just unreal. Um, we will be submitting information to you because there's lots of it. Um, I'm surprised no one has yet, but that's fine. We'll call
the typo. His name is David Weeden. And we'll get the letter out to you. Um and and so you can see >> Yeah. If any if any of this is if any of this is federally recognized and protected and can't be touched, um >> any federally recognized tribe that has a claim to it can do so and is entitled
to a full 106 review, which is what I'm going to request here. Um so yeah, that's that's going to have to happen. And it's going to be a lot more than just walking with a native person. There's going to have to be scans. This is one of the most significant cultural
places period. It there's it this would be like us going and tearing down your church telling you you can no longer go there and building a house there. This people go here to pray. This is a religious site and they're not going to stop growing. People go here to hunt and
fish and we're not going to give those rights up because there's a housing development there. So that's that's another issue to consider. um you know, how is this going to affect the people that are living there when they see people doing ceremony or hunting? Those rights are guaranteed by this state and
we're not going to give those up. Again, I think my cousin made a very, very good point when he said, "There's other areas that have been disturbed that you can lose. We don't have to do this. We don't have to set this president. Please consider that."
>> Thank you. [applause] COULD I ask you real quick? What's a tippo? >> It's what I am. I'm your deputy tippo, tribal historic preservation officer for the narans and Indian tribes. I am also
a member of the Picasso knock of the nation. >> Good talking. >> Um I haven't missed one of your meetings yet. I gave up my parking tonight. I want you to know, I probably will have to park blocks away from my house, but um as I have said at every meeting, this
is a sacred place. This is a place we come to pray. Um we put we also hunt here, but all of our children have walked through these whether they've entered from 140 or from um Howland
Road. Um it's a very sacred place. Um, I'm I'm not that I'm not grateful uh to Mr. Ionati for for recommending that the the land be donated, the green space, quote
unquote, uh be donated to us. Um there are so many areas within these approximately 200 home sites that are wetlands already. So, I'm not really sure how you put a septic system, even a
presby system into a wetland where you're also going to build a house because there's no area to replicate wetlands, which is usually what is required. [clears throat] So, I think that when they're only able to do 20 houses a year, and this is going to be a 10-year project, a lot of
us might not be here in 10 years. And so, you know, how are we going to see this through so that the cultural areas that are so significant to us are preserved for future generations? How are these homes with their potential
water systems, their wells, and their septic systems going to impact the health of Long Pond? Because this is the watershed that goes under 140 and feeds into the Cedar Swamp. And it's it's very concerning that we're counting house
lots and sizes of house lots when the ANRAD has not been completed for conservation um on at least a third if not a half of this property. Um the the work that has been done um for conservation. I'm not
sure when it's the ground's going to thaw this year. um but we're not going to have those answers probably until the beginning of the summer um is my guess um from both you know parties conservation um and the town's uh expert
that will will come in to to follow up. Um Betina Washington reported that she couldn't get on to the property because of the brier. So, it's not like she reviewed the half that had been proposed earlier on. And so, I think it's a a
poor misrepresentation about tribal involvement um as you've seen me. And that's as much of a tribal involvement as you've gotten uh until this evening. And I really thank um my brothers and sisters from both Parenting Pond and from Mashby for joining me this evening.
And that's it. [applause] Reene liberator from 32 Fre Street. I have so many questions but to begin with I don't have it in front of me because I did not realize that there was going to be a question about the degree of ledge but I believe I saw on the
internet that we have in this site the largest concentration of outcroppings and bedrock and ledge in the state of Massachusetts. That is not a fact that I came up with but one that you can look up on the
internet. So when Mr. Vatani discusses when the engineers or individuals as part of Mr. Autony's team are advising that in fact there's not much there. you actually can build these homes without
quite a bit of trouble at all. I question the I question the engineering. Um I'm concerned as a resident on how a board that is representing our community is
able to make recommendations when engineering is incomplete. as so many individuals who wish to purchase or or work on a lot or begin to develop a house, there's a whole lot of
stuff that has to happen any permits and those types of things are given. And I recognize this has been a long process and I acknowledge that there's been a lot of change. I also question here we have some individuals
who have a a real emotional and historic connection to this property. And it's a [clears throat] great disservice in an unfortunate and and horrible situation
that we're in that Ken Leonard has in fact passed away because if he were here we would not still be discussing this project. But to simply say that the federal government can be trusted,
can any of us really as white individuals say that we can trust the federal government to make a decision that will not further impact the people [snorts] of this land who were here long before
us? Is it not our responsibility to not cast them out because they're different, but rather to listen to the information that they have from generations before? What gives us that right? And not just
for the people's sake, but what about the animals that are there? I love them. I don't want to see the deer hit all over the road on Freetown Street. Has your traffic study considered that when the teenagers are rushing to school, all
the deer that look back there, where do you think they're going to go? And is that not a public concern? It is for me. There's just so many concerns. And my final question, and I mean this with no disrespect, Mr. Ratani, and your team,
but really, how much money do you people need to be happy? The residents have BEGGED YOU, [applause] BEGGED YOU, WE BEGGED you to reduce the scale of this project and I hear that you've left
some lands there and I understand Kora maybe even donated a portion of it. [clears throat] >> But how do you know whether that's the portion that has any real meaning? There's been no opportunity for studying and this winter has not really helped
and we can acknowledge that. But we have to acknowledge the sins of the past and not repeat this in the future and your opportunity to be able to grant waiverss and not extensions. I'm at a loss for
the word because I'm feeling frustrated at the moment. but to be able to wave something. We've seen what's happened at Learon with the numbers and numbers of appeals and waves and really as a
community. Are we happy with that? Is that where we want to go again? And just because we've given another 650 acres to Mr. Lopes, who's going to develop it on on Howland Road? Are we going to hang on
to the hope that that's where the water is going to come from? Our town that can't afford to keep the pool open at the school. We're not going to be able to buy into that. So, we are looking at wells, many wells, and none of us really
knows what water does. And Mr. Ratani's team has addressed that fact before. We don't know what's going to happen. And if all of these factors together don't make you, Mr. Attoni and your team and
all of the individuals who are in the position of power in our town, if it doesn't give you pause to stop and think, is this really the right thing to do? Then I really don't know what other kind
of answers or lightning bolts you might need, [cough] but we need something big to happen here. >> [applause] >> Um John Johnley. >> Yep. >> Um so you know I' I've uh you know been around
you know the town and um you know there's there's a few buildings that are abandoned. Uh you know a few sites. It looks like there's like some sort of like either industrial size building. There's a couple of uh abandoned buildings, some some that should
probably be down uh and and other Have you guys looked into try to developing those those areas or because what happens I mean I I own an environmental company, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Just just keep in mind this is about this site and this project, not about potential opportunities around
town. Well, I'm just trying to think on why this site was picked over, you know, trying to competitive >> uh because the applicant owns this site. So, there's there's no there's no venue to say, "All right, listen. We're
going to swap land so you can do something over here. This is the site that the applicant owns and this is what what he's proposing to do." So, >> do we have any other questions or comments? Yes. [laughter] >> Hi, my name is Paul Zobo and I'm from 12
Elm Street in Freetown. And I'm just curious, is it possible to stipulate that the archaeological study be done not in the middle of summer when the foliage is thick and obscures the stones and the ceremonial sites that are there
some other time of the year just like the snow obscures what's out there right now. Foliage obscures it during the summertime. So to do the archaeological stuff in the middle of summer, it's not a true survey of what's going
on out there. And if you could somehow stipulate that, that would be really good. >> We'll make sure they do it at the most opportune time to recognize anything substantial that needs to be recognized out there. Is that okay with the >> Yeah, I mean, we'll let them know. We're going to be, you know, asking them to
come out. So whenever they decide to come out, it should be in the next month or two. >> Okay. Well, there won't be any foliage in the next month or two. I can tell you that. So, >> okay. >> How much would you be willing to sell that land to Would you be willing to
sell it? >> I I I don't own it, so I can't sell it to you. So, about that. So, I would >> applicant be willing to sell it. Maybe the tribes and CPA could band together and >> Well, here's what I would suggest that you do. Nothing's going to happen right
now. We're just going to give them the direction potentially when we we wrap this up to start engineering and start redoing some of the studies that they've done before. So, it's a this is a this is quite a ways away from potentially being permitted. So, I would suggest you
in a group or whoever you want reach out to the applicant and start those talks to see if there is any interest. I I'm not in a position really to >> start opening negotiations in public forum. >> Put it out there. >> Well, you're putting it out there that there may be interest. So, the applicant heard it and
>> I would assume hopefully they will answer your call if you give them good buzz. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Anyone else? Any followup from board members? We good? So, um
I'm just going to throw out there at this point, obviously the applicant has um made some adjustments, some changes to the initial proposal. Um, are we all comfortable with telling them to proceed forward with um
the list of things we kind of started talking to them [clears throat] about or pointed out traffic studies to redo those, the archeological start with um or move forward with getting the engineered plans um ready? Are we
at a point where we are okay with them moving forward with this? Again, we're not permitting anything, but we need to we need some more details in order for us to start that process. >> Yeah. So, I think we need more information for sure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, the water is obviously an
issue. I think we need to kind of explore further and get that vetted out. >> I mean, the water was going to be the irrelevant as to the plan. >> We're gonna move forward, >> right? My point is they they've said, "Listen, we're going to change the entrance. We're going to turn around and move, you know, shuffle around how the development is going to look." Do we
think that what they've sent us is ready for us to start asking for additional information at this point? >> So, we're looking for the okay to go ahead with the new proposal, which is to develop the entire site for 199,
>> right? >> Single family dwellings with an extra access out to County Street. >> That would affect how we engineer the uh project, >> right? No. Yes. >> The the point is the same issues that we had.
>> The point is, do we say no, go back to what you had? >> The point is, do we say no, continue on the path you gave us before or >> pivot now and show us what it looks like with, you know, we we prefer having the extra um entrance on County Street. We
prefer having the whole site develop, not having a portion of it undeveloped, not knowing what's going to come. Are we good with that? >> Well, I don't want to see the whole develop. Obviously, I like the entrance to County Street. Um, I don't think anyone in this town wants it all developed,
but I think we realize that something's going to happen whether we want it to or not. I like this proposal better than the other one solely for the fact of the entrance on County Street and better with the traffic. >> Okay. >> Anyone else have any other comments? I'm
not a fan of the density obviously and there's nothing we [clears throat] can really do anything about reducing the number of units. Um I mean it's it's a it's a reasonable outcome here. Um one clarific clarifying question I have for you is on the ratio of the affordable
housing you talked about um it's going to be split between the regular versus the senior housing. Is that correct? Okay. >> It could be 25% of of either one. So >> Okay. So 25% of >> 21 units of the senior housing will be
affordable and 25% regular 158 will be affordable. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. All right. So I would proceed with the revised proposal. Um it sounds like the
first item that will be available will be this traffic study which you'll have available for the town within the next say two or 3 weeks. Is that >> yes >> a reasonable estimation? So, which brings us uh in the next 2 or 3 weeks um unfortunately it's going to bring us
close to the beginning of March. We're going to need to send that out to our engineer to review. Um and I'm not sure how quickly that will come back. So, I think it may be safer um for us to potentially have our next
hearing in April. That way, we'll have received it. Our engineers will have received it. they'll [clears throat] have time to do comments on it. And then what I would what I would expect is that we'd have both our engineer and your traffic engineer at the April meeting to work through the
presentation and ask questions and our engineer will have time to review it at that point to point out anything that they need done. And the two engineers will talk in the meantime anyway. So if there needs to be any adjustments done, they can work on getting those adjustments done for April. So we can >> correct cuz not only would we have to
submit it and your guy will have to review it then the two of them will get together and come up with a an agreed upon presentation. >> John, can I just ask a question? >> Yeah, come on up to the You got to come up to the unfortunately so they can >> know who's asking and know what the
question is. >> You know the drill. I know who you are, but you got to say name and address. >> Baker Lane. Um I just want to know does Lakeville do a traffic study also or do they just take what they get from um the developer?
>> They do the traffic study and they take what they get from the developer but they review it against all sorts of data. We we went through this process last time and and they have national >> they build it on their [clears throat] own. They took it from the developer is what I gathered from the last time. >> Correct. They take the information from
the developer, but my understanding and council's confirmed this for us and our traffic study engineer confirmed it for us. The data they use is information that is accessible and has to meet certain standards. Um, so it's it's not like they can just make it up. I think
sometimes people think, well, they're just going to make it up and they're just going to use whatever they want. We have to believe >> what they've been given and not do it themselves. So if they do it on an off day, they're going to say, "Oh, there's no traffic.
We're good." When really that doesn't happen. So I didn't know if both of them do a traffic. >> No, one of them does it. And to your point though, if our guy if our guy or girl says, "Hey, you guys only did one day or you did it on a Tuesday in the middle of July when school was out."
They look at all the criteria and make sure the data that they used is relevant. So it's it's not just saying you give us what you have and we'll take a look at what you have. You give us what we have you have. We're going to review it and see where you got the information from, how you got the information as well. So
>> they can require additional information to be provided or additional work to be redone if it wasn't done correctly. >> Larry Cost 453 town street on the traffic study. Um,
we've seen the traffic starting before. >> I live in Freetown Street. Just today, >> 204 was stop coming down to the stop sign in the county. 18 minutes. Took me to get traffic went to number 13. So,
need speed. That's the time. You got to look at these studies during these peak hours. That's our concern. Who who did our uh who who did our peer for? Can we remember who he was? >> You think I have that good of a memory, Larry? This is probably it's probably been nine nine months ago. We we can we
can find out who who it was. It's public record anyways. But what I would suggest and recommend if anybody has anything in particular they're concerned about from any of these studies to email the zoning board and we can make sure that our um engineer
>> um references that and and and checks on it for us. [clears throat] >> One last question that nobody asked and I was sitting here. Has the has the state seen this plan? What is the state on this? Has the state seen what plan? >> This this 40th project that they they have to approve it, right? Housing has
state housing has to approve this project, right? >> They don't they don't approve the layout and the design of it. That comes that comes >> I know some of you but they're they were on board with doing this project. >> Yeah. It has to go through the state to begin with anyways. >> Actually, Mr. Chairman, it started with
the state and the state gave us the approval. >> Correct. Any any 40B starts with the state. It goes through a process. they give an approval. I mean, initially up front, the the you know, the select board and some other uh boards in town or some other players in town um get the
information. They report back what their concerns would be for the town and whatnot, and then the state either gives it a thumbs up or a thumbs down before it comes back to us. So, the state is well aware of this. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Could I make one suggestion, Commissioner? >> Can make any suggestion you want.
Because the archaeological has been a constant concern, why don't we say to make it better effort or make an effort to include them in whatever study they have cuz if every time they come up here, they say, "Oh, they didn't include us or they we couldn't get in
there." Why don't we make sure some of the people we actually get into the site and actually walk the site thoroughly and make them satisfied and see anything actually out there or not? So they don't come here in two months and you guys say, "Oh, the PAL said it's all set." And they say, "Well, nobody called us or
this isn't here or that's not here." Because we heard had that twice now. [clears throat] >> You can respond if you'd like. You don't. Again, it's a suggestion. >> Yeah, it's it's an unusual request. We've never It's It's There are lots of actually we have no trespassing signs
throughout the property and nobody's allowed to walk the property. It's private property. Mhm. >> And people that say that they've been walking the property, they're not supposed to. They're basically incriminating themselves. >> Mhm. >> So, uh I would stay away. I guess if I
was them, uh uh from walking the site, uh you know, and P is a is a well respected uh organization that [clears throat] deals with those things and they've done their study and they came up with a conclusion. We have not questioned every engineer or every
consultant that comes up and then they were in contact with the tribe. Uh they did their homework and they did their due diligence and and they sent me the report and we had a presentation for for twoour presentation
uh from BA and and those those issues or questions or concerns are going to keep coming up to the last day. So they're not going to stop. Uh, and I I trust the professionals and I trust the way they handle things and you know.
>> May I? >> Well, I understand what you're saying. It sounds easy, but I wish it was that easy. >> Noel, >> go ahead. Noel, >> I I have to I have to say >> Noel, you're not having a conversation with them. No, I can hear you. You're having a conversation with the board,
not with >> Muhammad. >> Yes. It's a perfectly reasonable request to ask that the professionals and in this case the professionals are the people who know this land. that, you know, they certainly should be
accompanying whoever's walking that property because they know where those sensitive sites are, where those Oh my goodness, they It's perfectly reasonable to ask that they are included in the
walks on the property. Please, please, please be reasonable. [applause] So, at this point, um, we'll start off with the traffic study
and we're going to, I guess reset is probably the best way to put it, all the other, uh, work we've done and you can proceed forward with the new proposal uh, plans and engineering. Um, and obviously it's come up a couple times
and you've already reiterated, but I'm saying it for for public uh confirmation that uh as far as ledge and whatnot, uh, we want to make sure that that's referenced in the engineering. So folks, >> actually all the the ledge outings are
shown on the plan. Uh, the new section that we added has zero ledge, right? So, >> but just incorporate it into the engineered plans when we get there within the within the within the talking points. People not everybody can read a can read a plan. So, >> we would eventually make a presentation
to an expert that does the best and he was ready to come in in front of the board and I believe you know about the process how it's done and how why it doesn't it doesn't cause any damage to anybody. Is there a way we could get that information
frontloaded instead of further down the pipeline? >> Let me see their availability. If they're available for the April meeting, I'll make sure that they come in and make a present. >> Okay, that' be great. >> Anything else? Okay. So, >> you can make a comment a second. Um, so
at this point, um, anything else you need to add? >> I do. Anything else? Anything else? We're looking for him. Okay, so we know the traffic study and if you can get the blasting guy in here, great. Um,
>> go ahead. One last comment. >> Um, so I appreciate the gentleman who wanted to involve us. I appreciate that comment, but it's not a request, it's a requirement. So, we are going to be involved in the archaeological study, and our people are still going to access this land for our hunting and fishing
rights. No development can exclude us from that. So that's going to continue and so is our religious practices. We are going to continue to use our land to practice our religion to hunt and fish. It it's not going anywhere regardless of
what's built there. So um we have to be involved in that process which we will be and I will be sending you some information on why. Um and we're going to be there for the entirety of that study. And it's not just walking the grounds, it's scans. 106 review requires scanning. So that's
going to be occurring as well. So I just want to let you all know that. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] >> All right. So we're going to move this out to the [sighs] what did we say? April meeting. >> 13th.
>> 13th. April 13th. So, at this point, I guess I would ask uh if the petitioner would uh like us to continue to April 13th. >> Okay. Someone like to make a motion to continue the hearing till April 13th. >> I'll make said motion. >> Do we have a second?
>> Second. >> Give it to one of the curses. Any further discussion? All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries unanimously to continue to April 13th, same place, Lakeville Library, 6:00. Uh let's see. We have some minutes from
the June 16th and the January 12th meeting. Uh Kathy is distributing to us. Hopefully everyone's had a chance to review them. Does anyone want to make a motion to approve? >> I'd like a motion to approve.
>> Do we have a second? >> I second. >> Any further discussion? And all in favor for both the June 16th and Jan June 15, 2025 and January 12th approval of both sets of minutes. >> All in favor? >> I post. Motion carries unanimously. Uh
our next meeting is actually February 12th, which is later this week. And um just for folks listening and to remind everybody at the board, we are at the Old Town Hall. though. >> Yes. >> Old houses >> because we want to, you know, use some
of our historic buildings and the fact that because of the >> across the street, >> that's the one, >> huh? >> Yeah. >> FYI, Thursday. >> Yes, you did tell us. But we should be good with with four of us. So, uh, with only because there was nothing else
available that night. This room was taken. Um, the police station was taken. COA was taken. And we're expecting more than the five of us at the meeting. So that's why we're there. And that one also is going to be at um 6:00, correct?
Yes. >> Is it at 6? >> Yes. >> What do we think? >> Yeah. Well, no, that >> we'll talk slow when we start the meeting. >> I kick off I kick off maybe 10 minutes
later. So, my question about [laughter] changing meeting times to 6:00 sounds like that's not a good idea. >> I just skinned it here. >> Okay. >> I leave the office at like 5:30. >> No, no, that's fine. I I >> mean, that overlaps with not only the working day, but kids activities too for
me, you know. So, 7:00 is preferred. Yeah. We'll keep it at 7. >> I'll really go to sleeper, but just getting after work for 6. >> Okay. I mean, if you were to open up the meetings to have more kind of a remote access, like if you have a Zoom option for us, that would help. Jerry, I love
seeing you guys so much in person. Just not quite there yet. >> We can participate no matter >> Well, here's the good news. >> Geographic. >> Our regular regular meeting on February 26th is going to be at 7:00 p.m. So, you have plenty of time to do what you need to do. >> Say that last. What date was it again?
>> Uh, February 26th >> at 7 p.m. Sorry, guys. really on you guys. >> You are just leaving us hanging all over the place there. Anthony, I will let you know. >> All right. Well, I'm sure Lake I'm sure Lake Cam wants to get going. So,
>> having said that, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjourn. Do you have a second? Second. >> Any any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. You guys in favor of journey? Second. >> Cheetah, you in favor of a journey? >> Excuse me. Are you in favor of a journey? >> Ajourn.
>> Okay. Motion carries unanimously. We are adjourned at my own 7:45.