##VIDEO ID:cBoNpdsaGZk## even everyone everyone remain standing for moment silence and hon our here and thank you start off by saying chat tonight so I'm ask S to keep an eye I miss um we're with the approval of minutes from the August 15 meeting the August 15 Clos session minutes and September 5th work session minutes thank you to council MERS who revie made some that any questions about minutes second second all please say hi hi he the motion carries counc to look at the administrator reports there any questions coule things here uh last month we took in almost $20,000 in hotel packs uh new Revenue was up over $50,000 now registration thank to the eff than $10,000 $10,500 last month late for $375 s will update that the little bit plan registration later andou not works um do work over at the over the yard which came in and cleared away all the behind Public Works garage get behind with no problem um recording that there are 13 street lights out throughout the city um soon possible so if you notice a street light out probably on list feel free to call me it's not soon follow but they doing that motion to please please say I thank um just couple things last the laste um resident asked about possibility of s expanding the um public participation session to includ more that dialogue back and forth out a lot of thought and I think that the way we've been doing it over the last couple of years is uh has worked well I think balance um and did add a second public participation period at the end of the meeting for the sake of kind of keeping things um Equitable and uh and just kind of manageable from my uh from my point of view we're going to continue to maintain your three minutes uh comment you three minutes to make your comment questions CC has the opportunity to respond those but I I find that a lot of back and forth is just hard to manage um and so we're going to avoid doing that um if you have follow questions J can be asked at the second comment period um I think it's important to keep balanced and P Pace kind of consistent so um very one thing to note you know over the last couple of meetings I've had to ask repeatedly for people to stop talking during the meeting I'm going to start calling people out Bo for that I very distracting uh when I'm trying to run the meeting and for people may be seeking to hear you know people in that in the room talking so if you have something to talk about if your neighbor or your friend from please step out into the cor I will start kind of call people out I think it's I think it's in considerate people who are actually speaking in any given situation think the most important person in the room is the person speaking off of that consideration Court everybody I I would really like to maintain that so bearing that in mind i' to welcome first member public for paration Jeff 33 Wilson Street I just wanted to start off and say that I've been thinking a lot about what's happening in on the hill and the community and you know it's been going on now for a few months and I think we have to come to the point where you know like my dad like Fisher cut B uh when we look up at the hill and I think of putting 200 hous up there on H Hill haed with the legacy of pollution dumping of a landfill of a factory we don't know what's up to it's a mystery the problem is we have to come up with a housing plan and we have to be able to build affordable housing reach their go as long as we don't know what's going on up there as long as we have no idea you know what levels of chemicals are up there what chemicals so electronic Place could be off the pcps also could be tce we know that could be could be P we' had a an online landfill that never was closed Pro we don't have no idea was D there and may have been dumped illegally and unless there's a complete survey of that site I also mentioned we had old football and baseball fields we used to use arts and as a pesticide and herbicides years ago so we don't really know what's up there and as long as we keep holding on to that site whether it's 200 units or 139 units we can't move forward um it doesn't matter if we go to 139 units there's still too much traffic too much storm water too much run off the ability to mobile to put in MO to mobilize chemical that may be up there um those are really serious issues that we have to face as a community and so if we get beyond that site and say let's come up with a workable plan for our community that includes the Village Apartments maybe 4 and farm with Fisherman's Mark the corboy site and some of the others we can get Beyond it but as long as we're tied for that path and that ghost of the toxic nightmare that may or may not be up there the potential liability for the town and any of that I think it's sort of time to move on uh we also when you think about the impacts the cost for up there though judges don't care about that but dep PL the taxpayers we have to put in traffic l or do major road improvements whether it's 200 139 it's like you know just being a little less bad and so I really think it's time for the council and and the mayor to start moving on from that site and come up with a better vision and view for for the town's future that meets her goals protects her environments and L fling you thank you coun any comments I'll take a minute to say here that uh we have the news to share tonight uh about the r development plan uh we continue to uh uh work with the court adjudicator in this matter and when I have news to share I will share it but we are still um we're still still working through a number number of questions um that I'm not very to discuss um a little bit later I'll talk about the possible formation of housing committee uh that please thanks Sean Ellis 21 beler having you um I just have a couple things to say um number one I just wanted to update uh Council and public um I was able just yesterday my spill fund claim came back and um will be awarded so that with a black box I couldn't get through to anybody but it finally came in so just wanted to let you know that is a viable path um and uh the second thing I wanted to say is thank you for the information session on the affordable housing um you know issues uh I think one thing that I learned from it I learned a lot from it but one thing that really struck me that the um City attorney for cust I'm blanking on her name Kelly um she had confirmed that if we you know in terms of a builder remedy lawsuit that you know may happen many years from now if we don't move on this um and and fulfill Our obligation uh that it would that we you know we would currently be able to be sued for 135 units that were approved by the previous plan um but that we actually expose oursel to Greater liability with the 200 un if we adopt the plan with 200 units because that's then what the Builder can sue us for so I think it's all the more reasons not to adopt that plan um to protect ourselves and for all the other Myriad reasons why a bad idea um so uh that was that was really um educational and uh um I think enlightening so um and then uh the last thing that I wanted to bring up is I know that um you know Jen towns had uh was asking the mayor at the previous meeting why uh there was this unilateralism you know against the public the council and professional opinion and um that she was wasn't allowed to address one person individually so I put it to the whole Council why do you think that um against all other opposition one person is moving trying to move this forward Council open to answer that question may finish with here in three minutes I am yes thank you so before the council has an opportunity to respond to that uh I'll just thank you for your leadership on the skill fund stuff U I tried to a little bit of research today in terms of uh Jen was wanting some on that and I didn't have much l so I need some calls and I run probably the same kind of walls you run into so uh to the extent that you may be willing to offer her and guess in terms of ping out the application you appreciate it and I would appreciate it um you're something don't want to be but uh you are so thank you for your there um you do louder pleas or the mic or something yeah just saying thank you forcation well I tried to do a little research really came up walls so can you to the other welome you know you know it's part or part of the way we do things it's you know it's actually in the ordinance directed to a single personal because the Reas behind now it's got about issues and now about person right so once you start things to an individual then that we risk that becoming a personal remark personal attack um and so you know that's why I I done you know anybody El been directed to anybody else on day think that you know there's a line that's that's that's not appropriate to cross in terms of question particular policy decision that that a member of the Govern body have made for a very clear reasons and Reas reasons and we have I would just say briefly Sean thank you for all your leadership too and I know you're also helping with fundraising I know you're also help fundraiser be there so thank you thanks I be not to say that and if you if anybody needs any help filling out those spill FS I would also you know fill out they could know call me up come to my house like I'm good at Filly C for it's like I have five skills that me Falls you know go out forms and uh in terms of uh just public comment look I i't you know my own position on public comment I don't need the three minutes and I would like to have some times where we suspend rules and have some give and take um you know um so you know that's perspective you know a different I don't feel I feel like we're P 4,000 people you know we can talk Civ and uh and have great meetings without you know this kind of all um I I agree with the councilwoman as far as the public comment well first of all I do want to also your leadership and this whole issue of well contamination you have to bring It Forward you made us all aware um even people that don't live on your Hill other Hill become aware and that's a good that's a great public service so thank you for that um but I do think that um you know we used to have five minutes um previous mayor or reduced it to 3 minutes and then we codified it um to 3 minutes which maybe in retrospect was enabling bad behavior I don't know um but I would be open to a little more flexibility in the public comment um you know with the understanding that there could be times if an individual you know takes an an inordinate amount of time that there's a gracious way to ask the person to you know kind of drop it up as a courtesy to others who might be waiting and I I I do think there are t there's techniques for doing that thank you I'll be the fourth person here that thanks you for all the work you've done I know I've acknowledged it in emails back to you and just getting that awareness out even to the information you just gave to us right now about funding waying assistance and scra uh so thank thank you for that um I I I I would entertain the idea at one time is is if it's a if new information is coming up and someone has something new to share maybe we can uh be more flexible with the three minutes I I you know how the 3 minutes came to be uh and um if it seems to be too short then we'll have another conversation about extending it I I do like the back and forth uh because people have questions but again the mayor has said well you if you stick around for the whole meeting you it'll be more time that you can ask additional followup questions so I think that will give the opportunity uh to uh to do that so again thank you thank you does that answer all of your questions pretty much I think so okay because if you say yes you can come back thank you Sean if you have more questions come Paul stevens9 um I understand things are going on in the background that I'm not privy to and I understand that's fine there's no way I should be I would just encourage you that whatever is going on right now it um that we walk away from kobian on this 200 unit project uh been a lot of reasons given but um the just the ultimatum that says they're not going to negotiate a 200 fine leave we ask for 139 you can't do it at 139 then you know maybe this isn't available for you um by walking away we don't we're no longer we're not in violation of that part of our agreement fair share housing and court because it called forth the 139 units one reason to move on given their inance is the fact that the part that we see that we're stuck on is the five units than because we didn't decide to move to police station okay that's taking away City resources it's taking away time and effort by stilling around potentially negotiating with k for the hill we ought to be concentrating on finding out solutions for the CL back in to compliance um with the agreement that we struck into in 2020 this is based on the meeting that you had that the lawyer and the planner all presented stuff that leads me to these olutions thank you for your time just real briefly um for the people that weren't here for the people for the people that weren't here um what the planner was saying uh was that we have a plan and you know the threat of the Builder remedy might not be exactly what you're thinking because the only reason we're not in compliance right now is because the police station site when we move from that we are five units out of compliance technically so uh what Paul was saying is we've got to find a way to try to build those five units and that's going to put us back in compliance early and I I agree with that approach too regardless of what happens up on the High School site that's an immediate need and I think there have been some possibilities about you know the Lo cabin and that that we need to explore um so I appreciate your comments thank you Judy gleon 86 North Union Street um three things first of all and thank you for trying to use the microphone it's really hard to hear you guys when you speak sort of quietly to yourself and people talk to each other partly because they can't hear you so they're like what did he say what is he what what so it would be a great idea to have you actually use the mics and make sure the mics are working I know you don't into the mics but use the mics we would appreciate that a lot so calling out I'm calling yall out I'm sorry uh storm water amendments are I think on the agenda tonight and I just want to say the Amendments seek to make it a little bit better for Lambertville because what we allow now is not as good as the Amendments would make it I'm asking you to consider the others uh communities around here who are lots better than the little bit better that we're doing so before we just say oh well thank goodness we made it a little better so we're good no I think silbury has a better one I think other ones around have a by better I mean how much disturbance is allowed all that kind of thing because this is the classic thing when I walked in work in Washington this is the classic thing they say this say well we can make a little better everybody goes oh that's great please look at more than just a little bit better look at other towns because this is not as good as we can be and then the third thing is the ever popular development on the hill I would like to know is there some absolute legal preventative statute or regulation that says we cannot look at other building sites while we have that Hill site under consideration because the five UNS that we need needs to be looked at somewhere else The Village Apartments need to be looked at and we keep sort of being told not exactly but sort of well we can't do that because this is pening well we can't consider that because this is pening well we can't what yes we can I think we can and if there's a law or a regulation that says we can't tell us that because so far what we're told is we can't tell you what we're talking about but we're working on it and we can't do anything because we have this and and and so just we're not spending this time for no reason we want to do this as much as you do but help us do it thank you Bill could you please address Judy's legal question no uh there's no law that prohibits us from considering other sites is there no we just we have an existing Redevelopment plan for this site and we were approached by an entity that is is under contract purchases so that's why we're going through the process with respect to that's thank you and as I've said a couple of times just from my point of view it's been very this is a very complex process to go through uh this this the project that we've been working on for two and a half years and so it's important for me as the mayor to see this through doesn't necessarily mean you know my our loyalties are divided every day right uh I want to see this project one way or another through to whatever decision happens and it doesn't necessarily mean that we can't consider other sites but it's been just uh impractical in terms of time and and everything else I mean I am working I have had conversations with people about a couple of other sites I don't want to get I don't want to put the cart before the horse so you know as always there are things that uh you know that we're doing that we don't necessarily talk about right and there's a Reas we don't necessarily talk about and that because one they may never come to fruition right so why would you talk about something that might not be possible until you know whether it's possible or not two you know you have to prioritize every day everybody's got to prioritize what their you know what their goals and objectives are so you know it's not that we're not it's not that we're not it's not that we're willfully not considering other sites it's just that we're that I well I shouldn't say I we I I've been focused on this one major project that the council has been working on for two and a half years and I think it's reasonable for me to continue to work through that till its natural conclusion uh and make that Focus because it's a good faith effort so that's uh does anybody else have any thoughts to I was just that I agree with you about the microphones we need new ones and hopefully we're going to get them for next year because it's it's equally frustrating for us and I apologize and if you can't hear us continue to yell that can't hear us because that's very important that's why you come here to hear us I agree with the microphones and um I hope we come up with a system that's more responsive to our current needs these have work the way theyve worked since we've got them and we know that they're L lost trying to work through it and someone myself is challenged with hearing um it it is very frustrated uh frustrating to not be able to hear the person in the back row or even the person in the front row so I I understand you know that that's a concern so I so know I mean in the best of Worlds we' all have a mic and it all be around our necks and we be able to use them without having to share and then have them loud enough so people in the across the street could hear us let alone in in in the building so I I appreciate take that concern it it's frustrating for all of us I'm sorry see with regard to the um audio portion um I I think that we can even do better I know um there's work being done on a grant to uh to replace upgrade uh our equipment I'd like to see things would be even more helpful for example as someone sitting on the de I can't see anybody who's on zoom and that would be really help I think it'd be helpful for us um I also think you know if we if we use that to make it more interactive and have people feel more included and I don't know about anybody else but I would love to have close catching app on my phone because that's the only way I watch I know so um I you know I think we have a lot of opportunities and um I Cindy I think technically I needed these requirements a while ago so they're not it's not SC through I don't think I missed any of them yeah okay um but as far as um the the affordable housing sites I also agree that we should be looking um you know we have to we have to have a few irons in the fire because even if we you know said f we got to do this project on the high school we're still five minutes short so we're still out of compliance so I think um I'm gonna lean on councilman wide and say I think we need to figure out a way where we can kind of walk at your gum on this you know particular issue at least layout Striker plan to to close that five unit Gap hi John towns 14 handc um couple of quick things I'm happy thank you Sean for the information regarding the uh water casting and Remediation but uh just so nobody gets too excited just because we're going to remediate water into my well doesn't mean you guys should be approving 200 units up on that Hill because the water's not poison anymore that again that's me looking into the future that oh it's okay please uh consider that again the issue of traffic and all the other things uh that's the problem uh I don't understand the the contractor who hasn't even purchased the property yet making demands uh I don't know I would take that to the Better Business Bureau I'd take that to somebody I'd take that to the AG before I took any nonsense from any contract all right that's just wholesale thread and honestly ladies and gentlemen of this no you wouldn't like it if anybody came into this room and tried to hold you guys hostage over something stupid so contractor can fold or he can whatever it's $135,000 we had to pay as a penalty fine I'll cash up couple of lots I don't know now as far as how long this has been going on I found the paperwork going all the way back to 2015 regarding this stuff in different sites uh cind he was the person that was email and she had to lay out these things and who had what where that's great now I can do it myself but I could request the city please go to the tax office up in lington the H County tax office and find out where and when that dunp was that information is up there it just has to be uncovered why haven't we done that are we quietly just putting our head in the sand hoping that lamberville doesn't come up as a bad guy in that I don't know we we've got to come up to something better we got to do it in a little more timely then what we're doing because if those questions aren't answered we certainly can't we shouldn't continue with this track also at one point um I was encouraged to reach out to the judge who overseeing this and if the city would would you please for me the email or phone number so I can reach out to this judge and bring up my concerns as the rest of the citizens could as well that takes the responsibility off of you because then that Judge's office will answer those questions to us if they're able anyway thank you guys for all the help you've given us so far we do appreciate it keep of good work thank you uh you know it was with my slip I think we talked about this in an earlier meeting and I think we need to we can provide the the the mailing address for for the judge right sure sure so so um judge Jud complic has the um Beth has the information because she I can share I can share the information number he does not have email and he does not have a phone number there's only snail mail but I can buy the docket number and the the title of yeah that's the submission so you know we can you send that to me 's we can't post that on the website or we can include it everyone others is that an issue inter so we we'll provide that to the public just the process I mean the whole Pro what yeah got that be a huge help thank you I can youil then would be a way me confirming that when I ped is correct the reason why I was saying that is Judge Miller who is the mediator who's helping us he's a retired judge so he doesn't have Chambers he doesn't have staff um you know he's the mediator who's resolved there's another judge in hunterton who is not really overseeing us now but we may go back for him him no he's he's the assignment judge no no it's uh I forget his name it's the new Hunton judge um I forget his name but he's the one who's teely be overse as well make sure you get the right information I to email the judge on the court judicator to clearly clarify that I will and I wouldn't you could see see the judges who who were not sure how to say in something you we can get you can get the information yes do that way my name is Susan Rell and I'm live at a court and um I moveed this towards me because I'm vertically challenged and I wanted to make sure that everybody can hear me um there are so many things going on but I'm going to really try to see if I can not ramble um one thing is I'm wondering why DP has not been called in on this site um again I think I don't know how everything works but it seems to me that a that a um a situation like this that his scope you would think that D would be called into it in some way and the um the landowner would be held accountable I understand that the landowner owes back taxes I don't know if that's accurate or not but if so what's being done about that I think if I didn't pay my taxes I think I'd be hearing about that or be fined um when I hear things like I've been working on this for two and a half years and I want to see it to its natural conclusion I don't know what that means I truly don't know what that means a natural conclusion can also be that there are so many issues and problems and fears and concerns that people have that the natural conclusion is we have a way to get out of this without penalty so let's get the F out of it and not keep on just because it's something that's been being worked on M I'm I also with all the pleas for people and the ideas that people are coming up with to try to look for alternative sites to to be so myopic and focused on just this one thing and I mean I know I've heard some of you say that yes we should be looking at other things and I really appreciate that because we took the clock's ticket and and we we don't want to be stuck with something that is going to be what I believe is going to be catastrophic for lamell um so I think these are mostly the thoughts that I have um about this I don't know there and oh the reason that I like a little bit of back and forth is just because there have been a few times when I've asked questions and it's the questions have been misunderstood and so I don't get an answer the only reason then I come back just to say oh no that's not what I meant or maybe that answer leads me to another question I do think we need to be limited of course in the time that we take up because a lot of people want to speak and everybody should be heard but um I think something a little more flexible that allows for people to get clarification or if they're not feeling understood I think it's important to be able you know to do that so and again I know you're all volunteers I know you're working hard I know there's a lot I don't know but I just needed to just kind of express my I'm so concerned about this I really am thank you are there any responses or I can say that M conclusion just means the conclusion means a vote by it's a decision by the government body that's all that's all it means doesn't mean it's my conclusion it's our inclusion it's whatever whatever the whatever the action is have the process that's all I need to to clarify so I I just want to I I I know it might be hard to imagine what select on this side of it just like it's probably hard for us to imagine imagine what it's like on your side of it but on our side of it it just it feels like there's something going on that's not being made explicit and it's very very it makes me very uneasy and very uncomfortable and I'm not accusing anybody of doing anything wrong it's just that there's like it feels like a kind of a smoke in mirrors and I think people are sitting on the edge of their seats with a sense of urgency and I think that's what you're hearing from people is that sense of urgency and that sense of fear of like some of this just doesn't make sense what is going on here so just if I could express that thank you you know I I just in in response I do have a response it might not be quite on point but I always feel the need to kind of say that I am very concerned about the environmental considerations that say and obtaining the information about it because we we talk we talk talk and you just don't know and and I for one for me pressing hard till okay we need hard information and hard facts because you can't put a number to a place when when you don't know what's even doable you know it's kind of the reverse process maybe I'm too logical I used to be a planner I'm not anymore but you know you kind of start out with what you what you can do not like what I want to do and then try to shove in you know you want to be you and and look I I feel very strongly that you know City owes its citizens Environmental Protection my background's Environmental Protection started out that way but I think it's the building block of anything and so for me in any of these considerations those two things are are number one protecting you know the environmental rights of community as well as the environmental Integrity of the property and anything that happens anywhere whether it be there or at95 Main Street or next door to anybody that the environment that their environmental rights are protected and the Integrity in the environment res I I agree totally with that statement as I said often at this meeting is that there there's still a lot that we don't know and what we don't know we're trying to find out in order to get a big a bigger view of any site we deal with so that has been um an ongoing conversation that we've been having about just about anything really so we're we're trying to get to the bottom line up there to see and I don't mean number-wise I don't mean density wise I mean what can that site health healthly that's word uh with with good help and uh people will be uh won't be exposed to unknown so because they're unknowns is is like you know I'm frustrated that that I can't respond because I just don't have we just don't have the answers yet but how we're not gonna go back and forth this is exactly the kind of thing that concerned about of time we come back to Second you for question thank you I just that one thing about the back and forth I personally do prefer that um I think that we can have a respectful conversation back and forth um the point was brought up earlier about five minutes down to three minutes and as someone who was sitting on that side when that happened it eroded the trust with the people sitting up here and I think we need to bring that back and I think that's the first thing we should do thank you very much I really appreciate your time and listening just the extension be closer to the microphone uh D bird 255 luns Avenue here in lamberville uh I've got a number of points that I'm going to raise quickly and I would hope as a long-term public servant and Resident all right that I have the courtesy of response either now or or shortly thereafter I have some observations uh talking about multi multitasking okay in business for 52 years managing supervising building uh and you you've got to multitask just because you have your eye on this one doesn't mean you can't or your Associates can't be working on other projects all right so uh everything should be moving we got two big things right now we have 200 homes up there and we got an affordable housing thing split the L get you know get it done for aable housing meeting unfortunately because of another critical meeting that I had to be at I was not aable to do it I attempted to look at it on uh online all right but with the the sound issues going on it was you know informed um the uh a couple of questions uh is uh does were there printed handouts provided or the the slides a slide deck going to be provided that we can give it to the public and the the uh issue that was raised by a lot of people here is a simple cut sheet that says this is our number this is what we got this is how many we need you know and you know the next line you know something very simple all right because it's a very complicated process uh next subject storm water management of ordinance all right I spoke last month all right uh because there was a a session here with our our engineer all right but there wasn't a all right and it wasn't an education and there wasn't an opportunity for people the businesses the homeowners the developers to ask questions and be educated so that we would be in a position to do it it was a a dictating of what was done how you got to that point but it didn't take any you know any information from this side of the table all right and when we talk about public comments I think that's part of my frustration it's been my frustration for a long long time because in the old days that's not how we did it all right uh e e e e e e e yes please sir so we're back okay um Suzanne Davis 8 Grand Avenue and um yes I I kind of agree with Su I don't know what following the project through through its natural consequences means like it really sounds like double speak and I think many of us feel like we don't really know what's going on and also is there like a deal breaker here I mean is there something that could happen up on the hill which would be like no this is definitely not going to work you know we'll just kind of forget this project we do affordable housing somewhere else is there any deal breakers here well I'm just kind of have things to say here about this process right I mean we're in we're working on it and I don't know where it's going to go I don't really know to say it sounds really just wondering what could possibly happen I cannot answer that question that would convince you question because I cannot we're not in a position to talk about what that is as a group as individuals it's a joint decision when we get to a point I guess if the hill slid away and wasn't there anymore that would be a de break something dramatic like that um something that could happen where all no nobody has well I can say we don't have enough information but H well okay so but this has been going on for a while so I think some of the things you're bringing up though May ultimately be the deal breaker these issues you're bringing up that's why we're going through this process to look the environmental concerns that's going to be a big deal breaker so these concerns that everyone has been brought forward absolutely if the deal if this does not go forward that's the reason why we all want to we all want to house long does this take it's a great question um know that's that's the is of like that's the difficult issue because I love say it's be done another because it is like ground but um those very things you talked about as that said are some of the things that that you know make or break any any property and that's why everybody s we're trying to get that information the process and able to be able to to make a sound environment judgement and part of the issue I think what it's c is that the sound environmental part was was left off the table and we are asking for that you imagine that might take and that's a good question e and thank you very much we understand your concerns why thank you 103 I moved here 3 years ago retired I was a funeral director 18 uh I had people come me with this problem that and another problem and problem one of the you speak up please so people can hear you things that I had to do is be truthful and I don't see that as the case here and one of the reasons is I've dealt with people in building Funeral Home in in corporate land in what you have to do in corporate land to make itable I am in the process now now of H having something built and it's going to be a corporation I had it all checked out environmentally with the with all the Environmental Protection needed be it water be it sewage to be it poisons lo and behold in many of the projects i' say about 25% Pro have been found to have these BS the uh current problem is I have a uh a pollution problem in one of my my properties and I had people come in and inspect it and look at this and that the other and they went back they approved it and they said you can go ahead with it I went ahead with it and I got stopped by the account because it wasn't certified was a stand now this is this is what life is now and we should not forget that because 200 units here may be great for finances but it may be not so great for people and one of the things is as I'm finding uh is that be careful be careful and take the proper time and effort and strin that it needs to be said no no no I have a friend who has a uh had paron me an apartment house he had his he wanted his windows replaced in the apartment they started to replace them they checked they checked and the Builder was honest and he found poisonous substance in the walls what was the outcome of that he told me I was a millionaire one day I'm a PO the next they would not allow any building return and I suggest that this burough City whatever you wish to call it thinks about it because you're in the same position and only a stand so be advised that you're dealing with something that is very difficult and it's also very expensive and when you have very expensive you have quite a few people involved in it and those quite a few people are not always honest and contractors I know and I'd be we of the contract you have chosen thank you thank you my name is Maran and I live at 29 l Lan and I came to the meeting last week and the person that was holding the meeting a b mentioned that the Iberian Apartments were not counted because they were too old to said anything after 20 years can't be counted I did research and that is not true so um I don't know if there was any other misinformation and uh I also wanted to mention we should probably talking to towns that have other toxic problems such as Manville or other ones that are around I can't think of M can and see what they do where they go to have their chemicals test and such and also how much it is it is how much is this going to cost us and um I guess that's thank you yeah yeah what she said was built before 1980 could not count so it wasn't anything 198 possibly be done to bring them back in to reutilize them to fix them up or did something so but that's what she had said before 198 thank you and the options were they have a renovation permit out if they do substantial work on their property then we could start counting them and I will tell you the very next day she already started doing some work on that so to look into that issue to make sure when we do make a decision we have the ability to look at all the information I need to alert you to as a result I was essentially threatened by a real estate agent this week saying I would not be able to sell my property because of the contamination that I am neighbored to um a property of um pce that will be coming on Market that is my my former neighbor was deceased and I was shown of the development which included Parcels that are not included even yet but are the vision and in this map there is my former neighbor's property which is being put on the market and M and she was saying to me you would be advised to sell if I get a buyer for this property because you're going to be out in the wilderness and everything that happens to you this property will happen to you and I told her to get out this was under the premise of finding out what the movement was about concerns for the hill this was a ploy to case my joint figure it figure out child she could put this on a little deal and she mentioned them you know nobody might want to buy this but Rick Wilson and I guess we'll have to sell to him if he's the only one who offers it what kind of scenario is this I will happily share you the name of this realtor because I am so insens by the fact that personal property is My Equity I'm being threaten I am told that I can't live there that I won't be able to sell it and that there will be manipulations to make sure that my life is quite miserable if none of this is proceeded in a due fashion forward to take us out of a state of limbo I am furious about this I think this woman it's and representing seller and then telling me who the buyer is is unal and I will happily share this information but we need to have something going on that makes those of us who own property on that Hill whether in West down or the two streets of Lambert that there that we have equity in our properties and they are not going to be destroyed by this um figment of everybody's Market imagination this will be used thank you I was going to weigh I want you to Super Chat I was going to weigh in you have recourse I do with the with the broker of this uh of whatever real realer you're using and you should place a call tomorrow and ask for a meeting and you do have recourse that that uh the agent may be speaking out of Turn to You Well I believe she signed an agreement with the property Jor and they have got everything in her hand well as far as your concern though you you have recourse there's the system you you should talk to I will look into that talk to the broker and there's also the there's a Real Estate Commission in the state of New Jersey that is very active that you could also come it's the situation it's like the wild west now let see we can I know she's trying to flip the property before she has to do too much work and that is probably that being said but you do it's not us to do that it's the real estate yes Jey South r street is this not a perfect scenario the state and the EPA isn't this what it's designed for to say that property cannot be built on I don't know question but maybe you have connections and Tren and it sounds to me the EPA exists for that exactly thank you not to correct you but it's it's the New Jersey D that'll do when it becomes Federal so i j Mar Atri Street I just have a quick question retail hours possi expanding them um end with city council saying that they were going to talk to City attorney about possibly reviewing different allies for Central Business sister I was just wondering if that conversation happened that there was going to be a discussion later on meeting about it uh there will not be a discussion later on myth meeting about it uh I did I was going to talk about it during kind of my announcements but let just a second here I'll find right piece of paper so um bill here um and I'm just going to Simply read what it says the council is not forward different Council yet so not conversation about this I'm sure the council this a couple days before so I probably didn't forward it retailer next residential commercial District can be supported this would be a zoning or Amendment So the plan board also in prior to adoption of any change uh and uh he knowes that we not not advis allow different operations for in the same time so so we do have flexibility to consider different types in different areas and uh We've not had a conversation about it so um that's all I can say at the moment sure have anybody online who should offer Us in public how many people do we have online we had 13 before we now we have 10 oh else in the room no online for motion to public heing please move second please say I hi thank you agenda this evening following resolutions on the consent agenda are considered routine shall be enacted by one motion should any member of the discuss that it should be so um yeah oh yeah in regards to the resolution the corrective action plan for the 203 audit we want to give a shout out to the finance team we've done an excellent job cor and Michael J Cindy have very so by the work that they've done and have time for you on the ship so well done all you on the finance team um so I left there a question from the C promotion to adop resolution numbers 202462 okay Bill everybody at the bill I'll make motion second councilwoman kinsky yes uh councilman Li yes councilman Stegman council president Lambert yes mayor no yes all right short streaming um ordinance is ordinance 17224 this is an ordinance commend the lorfield city code 20 14 chapter 7 traffic having section 7-7 landville restro valy parking service thank you to council stman for all of your work on this and counc president actually Wai I think on this one very point so it's definitely a group effort and thanks to bill for sing two or well say before well we we've gotten a lot of concerns about um ballet services that um don't adhere to sorry okay the Z one is now the uh Al the there a lot of concerns about valet uh in general um we have been working with one valet service that we granted permission to do a uh test so to speak see if we can get see that we we were able to get some information out um so I worked on this with uh C president and and uh came up with a way to license valet parking so it does not affect the surrounding neighborhoods in which people are trying trying to as residents and business owners trying trying to park as oppos and and losing spaces to valet a company because we had no rules about where they can and can't par and we also did not have Universal a universal plan to the r in which uh Val parking uh would be able to travel to the lot that they may or may not have secured and it everybody on the ballet company on on the same the same rules and regulations so we could have a more structured uh agreement on lessening the impact on street parking uh so that that's basically what it spells out uh I know officer uh Lieutenant Brown had some input on this as well and I think we've come up with a an enforceable uh ordinance that is that make sense for the residents of the city while keeping in mind the importance of uh making sure that our restaurants at this point our restaurants are successful and uh and pretty much the focus of this so it's not a way to stop people from doing valet it's about to regulate the way people do valet to lessen the impact on neighborhoods and passive ways to uh offsite paring so thank you um so we will uh if the commission is introduce have a public heing schedu October 24th FL 17224 first read of heal food licenses um each having com about this intruction to it but we're just getting a lot of TR lately people doing the small for them and we were giving them licensing them through a temporary food license but this allows us to be aible and somebody who is in our community more than three or four timeses so and at the same time um there with the change in the restaurants in the area it puts people into a different food classification a different risk classification and so we amended this to go with that and it really didn't increase the the food license fees but it just gave us a different categorization that basically it right yeah thank you for your work on that appreciate and just to note the food license fees have not changed since 1988 to be had here motion introduce number 1924 schedu for October 24th 2024 don't move all in FA please say I I yes um 224ce to section 77.2 stop section North Franklin Street so we talked about this in the early meeting in September something brown and IED was a good idea intersection see a lot of people cutting through on their way to you know 179 and not always apparent when you're at that intersection who has right way even if you see the stop so for St uh we like to introduce this uh ordinance uh and adopted question C about this no I think it's about time all and it clears up you know who's got the yield sign who's got the stop sign I may ask when this happens is we trim the trees that are blocking those signs right now and just be mindful the visibility from all last time I as this is a little joke on the left I told this less to move put the ranch behind side Thee Well we don't want to lose another Branch so motion 2024 I'll second fav please say hi we have a um public hearing on that in October 24 um orance second reading ordinance number 06 2024 this is the ordinance to amend the zoning ordinance management specific provision for St Mar control L um so uh we met at the planning board last night uh Doug was here dou our city engineer Doug with Bill Moore um went through the ordinance with the plan board uh which could ously uh recommended for for our consideration um so and there were some really good questions there were a couple of people who asked people on the board who ask some very detailed questions I was grateful for that so thank you to that um so I think while do here this uh to the public hearing for ordinance 06 2024 and we do have a couple of questions for Doug I think that the council probably heard this a couple of times now so hopefully everybody in the council understand it so let's start with opening public comment so for those people who feel so they might have a question or two allow some latitude there um ask the questions um so but please be to mindful of the time always Paul Stevens 394 um I understand we have to do this because of state and I know that heard bits and pieces about this I was there last night at the B board meeting I understand that you know I went out and looked at Princeton they looked at Jersey City and U there's nonprofit water shed Future something what I didn't hear and TI then the uh template that was supplied by the state I've never heard anything in all of the discussions about what how that's going to really impact us here well by applying things that CH is not the same as US city doesn't have the same bloody issues as we have I'm just like to know how do we how is this really going to affect us um for and for example how would it changed what was okay for new they putting in a lot of new stuff up there um would this have affected that at all and what they put in up there doesn't I mean maybe it Che I mean it's up on the side of the Hill there um I did see that the report said that it was you know per service is still well within the range but why I I I just don't know uh so I I really can't comment intelligent about this but I would like to have somebody expain what's it really going to change Doug quickly yeah dou um so Doug did look at other municipality ordinances but doesn't mean that he took them word we whatever we looking at ordinances shortterm rental ordinance for example I personally did a lot of research on how other the municipalities did it and then we tailored it for what we thought was appropriate for lamber and that's exactly what happened here so so double double can elaborate on this but you know different the state model it's uh as we have a very well tradition here in lville maybe Mak these ordin stter than the F standards because we feel strongly that they should be because we're not you know because of our situation right so you know some of the things consider you know to the model don't you want to just speak to the process a little bit there so actually I'll start with uh with Philips Harbor because I was involved in the approval process for that project and the reason I shook my head that it wouldn't have affected them is because they actually already took into account a lot of future um calculations and future rainfall uh rainfall quantities because during the approval process planning board uh specifically for that project because of the downstream conditions they uh wanted to make sure that they weren't just meeting today's standards they were going to me the future standards so actually that project did take into account future future Noah uh rainfall amounts and some enhanced calculations and some enhan design um so that's the reason I had said that that and it's only specifically to that project um that was all taken into account for that it was a good moment for the plan board I was at that meeting and I was really impressed with the the engineers on the planet board who really kept driving and pushing and and and uh I think the appli engineer who's very familiar with the city was a little bit scratching thinking wow guys are than they look yeah I I will honestly say that the the solar system on that if you if you go over to their new parking lot that they have there the majority of that parking lot is underground beneath that is the underground system and it's actually two level so it's like 10 15 it is a substantially large uh underground system for that for that development um then to answer the some of the other questions um yes I did as the mayor had noted I did look at such municipalities it wasn't the only municipalities but such municipalities as Jersey City and Princeton because they do have some of the some of the we'll say strictest uh storm order requirements in the state and so I took a look at them but then at the same time taking into account the fact that they a have the man power um or F power to uh be able to handle what is necessary for uh a larger municipality such as that um such as they have I believe a devoted storm water management representative who actually handles going out and inspecting the storm water management bmps which are called which are referred to as best management practices so uh Basin and um rain and features such as those and so unfortunately right now the city doesn't have funding to be able to hire somebody specifically just for that Pur so like that kind of requirement we did not include in this ordinance because we are you know with the understanding of what the city's budget is at this current moment doesn't mean that in the future it couldn't be amended to include such items as that uh but we also then took into account the city the one of the biggest changes uh or additions I should say to the new amended ordinance is the fact that all the projects up to now that had storm water management they they met the the what they call the major uh development uh requirements so they were over 5,000 square feet so they had to do all the stor motor management that was in here however if you as everyone knows when we look through the city um I mean a lot of the projects are definitely under 5,000 square fet so what we wanted to capture in this new is for the smaller projects that are from uh as it's noted in here from 400 square fet up to the requirement of a major develop and that is now referred to as a minor development so because if you really think about it as I'm sure everyone has um when you have this residues putting in a an impervious surface on their lot and but it's under 5,000 and the next uh propor does the same thing next proor does the same thing you add all that together have a very large impervious area that is not being maintained by a storm water management system and so with the minor development this is meant to now start capturing all those individual small areas it's not looking to be to put in a uh very large Basin I mean for the most part those smaller projects you can handle them through a porest pavement for your driveway which is what a number of applicants who have come in over the last several years uh they just wanted to expand their driveway or even add a driveway to their lot there's a couple applications I could think of that had that and so instead of just putting down a solid concrete or solid asphalt uh driveway they used pores concrete or or porest aers or porest asphall and had a secet bed underneath so they basically created a stor water BMP but they also got the driveway that they wanted um there's also another like a small rain Garden uh it's a decorative feature you can have on your property but it still assists with store water management and water quality um so it's those types of features and it's trying to capture all the little projects that are occurring all throughout the city that ultimately add up to one big project and so that's I want to say the biggest addition to the current uh proposed ordinance is the minor additive to it thanks um any basically a garden that has I asked from what a rain Gard yeah okay je Street Wilson Street couple of points my major issue is that a lot of this town is already developed and we're going to see some fairly large Redevelopment projects and in reading the ordinance I don't know even though it saids we're going to capture them I don't really see a mechanism in how we're going to be doing that and specifically when there's four properties all by the canal all being put by the same owners um that that concerns me second part is that we can't get a fixing redel we're never going to solve or even come close to M or problems here um because you know we're so impervious already and we keep adding more impervious I mean in my neighborhood alone we probably gone in the last 10 years from maybe 70% of 30 about 90 years old development going we're not capturing any of um then the other part of it is that where we have to have a strategy up on the hill the whole back order to keep it from down below I know that there's some things in it that do some of it but not enough and the point that I want to make about vmps vmps only work that they're maintained um and even how they designed are really about 50% effective in flat areas and almost zero effective in state slope areas and Rain Gardens are really more for water quality they're not really for for retention and it can't be designed that way because of mosques and other things and there's a rain Garden right by my house that haven't been anything since was put in an example by B Park Sil Reeds I haven't se the other ring Garden up at by CVS but that also is an area where the rain Gard is not going to work because it's for feet of water you know this is a tough issue I know we've worked on this for a long time but people understand that we're trying this ordinance at best is trying to manage a system and I will also say that the law that allowed town to be stricter was a law that I wrote pH so River poition because the state standards are designed not for a place like lamberville they're not designed for most of New Jersey they're designed for places that are still mostly vacant and open when you can manage land it's really made more for a place like uh never Ste but I would say how HBO used to be but HBO now PL the point I'm going to just end with is that you know you're going to move forward with it tonight and need to get it done but I think this is an area that needs to be continue to be Revisited soulbury Township probably has the best ordinance in the area they they actually start at 100 feet and every project goes in uh you have to actually do something you put in a deck in your backyard or you put in a you can't put a patio in your backyard it actually have to be made out of gravel and has to actually soak in the rain water we have a serious problem and I know we need to move forward but don't this is not a pan my final point is how is this ordinance going to affect the Redevelopment of the High School site because that is probably one of most typical sites where a lot of bmps won't work because it's so Steep and a lot of rock and rocking thank you um just one or two thoughts for me on this certainly uh uh I think it's important for us to revisit ordinances and now um and we will be to do so you know as we often I think have a have a a good Su of trying something and then to it's cannabis you let usort sit for a while in gel and see how that how that how that works for the community or what doesn't work and then you amending ordinance I think this is a good place to start um because I think to some degree well to a large degree it seeks a balance right so you know maintaining bmps while it's not necessarily time uh you know this time to an ms4 trra requirement uh for inspection every year right so we will have list of those properties that will have bmps and they will be maintained uh through the regular inspection process of the MS per so that's going to answer the last last question about the yeah I'm try to answer think of that growing up to the mayor point of revisiting um ordinances uh just keep in mind like even for the storeo ordinance just last year alone we adopted the r storm drain Inlet retro fitting uh because that was something that was brought out by the state um and the city felt that it was definitely something that should be part of their ordinance so we went through the review process process and we had do it in and added to the storm water ordinates so anytime the state does come out with either a stricter or or it's not the state if another entity comes out with something that may be stricter that the city Fields should be included in their ordinance then we do bring it up and it go under review and could potentially be added just like last year's and now that and to the point of the model ordinates um I 100% agree I mean the model ordinance is basically the Bare Bones Bas at it I basically did a comparison of the model ordinance compared to what the city even currently had so that way we weren't going less than what the city already had so you're not starting in the back you're you're starting at the same place so everything that was lacking which there was a number of items that were lacking in the model ordinance that the city already had in their ordinance in order to take into account uh the stormw issues that are the ordinance that we were weed here is including all of those items that were already in the city's ordinance so that was basically the starting point then from there it was going even further it seemed we can add what is new to the last several years what has been brought up by other entities and that's when the the biner development was brought into effect um Redevelopment re development actually isn't even in the model ordinance um so that was one of the first things I did notice and I make sure that all the re development requirements that were in the current City's ordinance I had brought back into this amended ordinance U because yeah that's not even something that's in the the model ordinance currently and um and then there was uh there's some other so to the respect of know how many here are aware the state has a storm water BMP man that is we we'll refer to it as that's a VI for the state for all the bmps that the state will approve to be allowed to be used within the state so anybody who's designing within the city limits they would they can go online they can download and they'll be using the state stor BMP manual and that is a list of I'm not even sure how many the bmps at this point are actually in this manual but it's every every BMP that has been approved by the state and so that includes greeners um which is one of the things the one Redevelopment plan that I had seen a few years ago I had mentioned that this would be a great opportunity to use either a green roof or what they refer to as a Blue Roof green roof basically means that you're going have a lot of plantings up there you're going to basically make a huge Garden that helps absorb water that that falls onto the building and then the water can also be cycle down through the building and can be utilized for um the paths it can be used as grw um now there's also a Blue Roof which basically means you don't have the plantings you're more or less just hold it's almost like creating a basin on top of the roof uh in order to take the water and utilize it for cycling through the building again as gray water uh or possible other uses um in and around from the building itself but this way it doesn't leave a site it's being re reused uh for the building itself and if anything when it's leading it's actually leading through the sanitary system at that point once it's used as graywood in um so so that's the other thing I know I mentioned rain gens but that doesn't mean that that's just a small BMP that I could think of that I just wanted to know but that doesn't mean it's it's applicable everywhere there are times where you can or cannot use it um it is primarily used as a water quality BMP which is why typically a rainard is used in conjunction with another type of BMP um but each BMP has its strong strong suits and it it's positive and its negatives um there are some that are equipped for volume control they're used to mainly hold the water on slate till actually infiltrates or percolates back into the ground and then there are others that allow the water to leave a little faster but it cleans the water uh they're the water quality ones so the 's a little bit cleaner as it's leaving the site than than uh it was on the site um one of the things I will note that was added to the ordinance is a new requirement that the state is currently from minor thing I believe the state is currently in discussions with it on trying to get it approved Statewide but it's the onsite uh retention volume requirement uh the way we have it for the city's ordinance is that means that 1.25 Ines of rainfall in two hours has to be captured and retained on site and kept on site until it infiltrates back into the ground um so that helps reduce the runoff effect that you get from rainfall on different sites uh so that is new to the ordinance that is like again something the state is actually going through right now themselves um try to think questions what did the main thing is redevelop and same thing for the High School site how does this now trigger like how does it trigger the redevelop someone's coming in big parking lot whatever you know this was a battle I had this state that I lost with BR Campell many years ago was to had a pullback in Pur his cover while allowing for the new development and also how a retrofit storm water when you know but how do we trigger that and how do we get and how do we put in a BMP or or do we pull back people like for instance I did work up in do where they needed to do Redevelopment and they pulled back and created a 75 stream corter that had all been asol in order to to meet this water standard so that was a part I couldn't really figure out reading ordinance how was it triggered and implemented for that one um we can talk offline what's that you can talk offline if you want yeah that one we might have to um I got I was just going to look for the definition but I can take a I read the definition but how it get done you know when they come into the planning didn't seem yeah it's well I I'll I'll say right now that with the planning board anything that comes in front of the planning um because they it's almost guaranteed nine times out of 10 they always need relief for something I don't think I've ever seen a project go through without 100% without any kind of relief so by needing the relief the planning board will ask for certain improvements um or additions to and so even if the ordinance is not 100% covered something the planning board does have the right to ask like we did for um uh Phil thank you we did for Phil SM up there um the plan will really felt okay yeah they might have been meeting the current requirement however that wasn't adequate for all of the issues that is occurring Downs slope or Downstream of Phils Harbor and so they had asked uh to have the newer requirements and to go even one step further which they were more than willing to oblig to and they did um so we also have those options for whatever it's not covered in in the ordinance we do have the options of also asking for it when they come planning they can also they can and planning board can also deny their request for Relief other public comment or questions anybody on please say hi hi questions questions from I have a good question situation that can it does happen in the city if has a drive and it needs to be uh repared or replayed because it's just old under the current regulation is there anything that stops me from Milling it down and resarch suring it with per with impervious well that's that's well first of off we even need a permit for the city to be able to do that would be my first question because if it doesn't require a permit then we know about I don't think it does right so we would even we wouldn't even know that you were doing that now we know yeah you're doing something that City darn thing um and if I was it but but hypothetical questions okay so current so going forward are we going to require permit to put in or replace an existing driveway that's that's a different question yeah that's not really storm water related how much that would be management for the city if they want to create a permit for driveway but I don't have a driveway today I want to put a drug isn't that increasing your runoff in your impervious surface because me to me and ask me I send them to the zoning officer because it's all calculation that's used for your property if you increase that you're no you're no you're correcting that the reason I was asking is I didn't know if there if there was a Hermit where somebody would have to even come in ask that's so there is so there they do need a zooming yes okay so then yes so then the individual would be coming in so once they receive the zoning permit or once the zoning application is submitted then it would be reviewed to determine the person off the size of the driveway so if it exceeds 400 square feet then they would have to do St order management associated with it they and most of the last few applications that we have even before this ordinance has gone into effect we've had Property Owners already willing to put in uh perious papers or use uh for asphal so how do we capture the house people with driveways now right with adhering to a new standard that uh we are now making new drive go through so what what's to educate the public to uh have the same requirements that someone who does who does have driveway now who just replaces the existing driveway where how do we get that message out I don't know if there's a permit to redo your driveway I think it's an educational effort I can speak from experience because when uh we we actually put a concrete on our driveway already U but you know when I went to the Construction office uh I was told because it's already a hard pack rattle that's considered impervious so we didn't need to do anything um and and and so you know there's no permit require there's nothing that we had to do um just go ahead and and and that said I will I told you this we uh we finished our drivway so that all the one goes into the side yard so going but going forward if we're going to do this holistically then someone who decides to put in a new patio where a patio what it will not be required to go through the same steps as someone who was putting in a patio in a place where one wasn't existing because it all computes into the world of perious versus infer so what I'm saying is if we're and I know we're serious about this to require any change of an existing driveway you have to comply with storm Mort management I guess what the question on that ultimately comes down to is whether maintenance would be considered because that's considered maintenance if because most people when they do their driveway at least for an asol driveway uh they usually just they they tar over it to seal it up this is when you have the machine yeah um but again it's maintenance of of an existing driveway so we will have to look into a whole another set of of rules and regulations that will further uh inform the public that if they do X they have to do they have to be adhere to the new rules and regulations that's my question yeah that's a different ordinance yes well well we you know we're working on we're working on a huge ordinance here if we don't have enforcement of it from the Construction office they have to update their we have to update their or right that's I guess ultimately really comes down because the C Point that's for new construction they have the zoning uh permit that they have to apply for however if somebody's just coming out to uh simply Mill and overlay their existing driveway that's maintenance if there's no if there's no application for that then the city's not going to know that they're doing it and wouldn't be able to enforce the storm order ordinance so to answer your question I guess that means new applications would have to be developed by the Construction office in order to require maintenance of driveways parking lots things of that nature and then we can then then we can enforce the storm happy to look at yeah good I got all right uh I I I children and like go in to the cab these are my kids 50 children come with me see them wonderful we the correct yes all right so I'm GNA ask a motion to adopt ordinance 062 what all second okay hi hi okay no oppose uh next is ordinance number 18224 ordinance to fund purchasing Storm video equipment personally funded through Grant from the county um we are in the seat of Grant at $40,000 I mentioned at the September meeting so thank you very much the um commissioner commissioner commission will be that early October meeting bring us a check U for that so we're very grateful for the time for that $40,000 I offset the cost of s video equipment which is well over $100,000 um we'll be ordering that as soon as we uh adopt this and pass the uh period did you just publicly thank the county for the 40,000 oh good yeah you know saw that uh the uh distributed funds we got the like to all at the max and not many people at the max was 40 right right yeah so yeah very happy about it grateful um so I'm G to open this up to the public for questions concerns comments for December 18 2024 second how long does it what's how long does this take now to actually get from here we'll be able to ask dou to find it and to order it uh so I'm hopefully that's we either get off the state contract or we'll have to do an RP okay so that's is the answer noton we can't just go by we have to you know go through a process follow the states the law I meant that I knew you did yeah we don't just buy stuff need process additionally we need to work in training who's going to we've done that yet so in October no we talk about talking about we need for next year what my hopes are dreams for stum water infrastruct next year um so these the conversations uh uh that we have having forward um we we train somewhat to do it well there there are people at L who are trained I had a formal conversation with them about what a relationship would look like or any of that yet so um motion to adance 18 so Mo second all in favor please say I I to note in terms of updates Ono projects so um live T I had a meeting um with some folks about information for the hous committee I need to follow up with coun on a couple of points um we need the next house meeting and hopefully at that point I expect he and I will be able to bring something to account consideration in terms the formation ofman committee um so sorry hang a little on that for a few minutes um the DPW project coming along um we could paint colors for B garage today which is kind of not really that exciting but it was a good thing to do and window so the work is continuing a lot um the library uh painting there is a contractor's INF the mediation and we're waiting to have a proposal from that contractor and with him him his partner and Michael Burns the library week or two ago um and Michael is going through the process of the this sh preservation office um application for pain colors so P would have to be approved by reservation office as well as sit our Canal so all of that is in the process um I'm thinking if everything goes well we may be starting uh in in Spring that work be ready uh long last all of the road work punch have been complete for North Frankin and Corel and Swan and stord very happy about that um on canvas hours um I have a draft from the municipal program GR for uh the time chain the hazard vulnerability assessment uh it's 41 Pages I'm looking at that so we will be talking about that uh in the coming weeks um and you know part of that assessment is a buildout analysis um which I read through the draft and the buildout analysis will be good for us to have go into our fourth round some our data about what's possible in the city in terms of build out so that may be a good document for us to kind of the s for um and thank everybody who submitted a column for lville matters uh some great columns I thought some really wonderful inspiring writing very interesting parts of view and perspectives and uh I'll be back on Wednesday morning I'll back next week so thanks everybody whote for that it was a wonderful project um and just the announcements Convenience Center hours oob 5th uh in 19 from 9: to noon and then after 16 from 3 to 5: and participation one question before you yes U has there an update on having the city meet the category that we can finally go through and choose what's the store uh yes um I'm meeting with the state at aour meeting with the state on Tuesday um to go through the ordinance me and I will be working with the the representatives and students oration office to respect make the final changes to the uh the ordinance that I'm hoping to be able to this year so award the on Tuesday more information about last coup years well St fed County and local elect leaders there um and looking forward to that so okay back your answer on the on having a so you don't need any assistance you and cind you guys don't you know please go Ahad St on Street three things Mr probably put the BR behind the stop sign so have to go sh cre commission to get permission to um we haven't heard an update in a long time uh on changing church back to a oneway street with all this traffic related to the bridge being closed come down that way put in a fourway Time interesting to hear where we stand on that and then the big one is you talk about taking this process okay holding to its uh natural conclusion I don't understand and and it could be that you know it sounds like you're still talking to them but after they say they to go shap down that sounds like an natural conclusion you know let's you know put it in and move on other things thank you thanks um stop sign stop sign I think they're hung at 8 ft you have the right is a resident of trim your trees below 7 ft um that's she Oran Church Street um the project there were multiple delays with the state approving that uh the permit for that that will be um CH will be made one way when we repay Church Street I hope that we were going to be able to get the Church Street sou Frank uh South Franklin Street project done this fall but I don't think that that's going to happen I think this is got to be a first a first spring project I I always tend to be a little bit like let's let's the road year Often by the time we get all the surveying permit the financing place it takes a while yeah so um that that's still decided to happen s Church Street Spring it'll be um and you know I can't yes there's still things happening I can't talk about them so that's all there is today the last I said the court judicator involve Court judicator still involve so you know we're working with the to continue process here I can't talk love be a to talk about it so so uh my name is the first question is uh it may be Mr of help and help here and it's probably a naive question but when I search the city ordinances um for agenda I find that syy compiles the agenda um for the council meetings but I don't there's nothing that that says where those agenda items come from or how they get to that agenda and maybe it's written somewhere else but um clarify that that's the agenda the agenda format is in the administrative code I think you find all of that in the administrative Cod well it is it's right there I think I'm not understand question is comp who's responsible for items on the agenda right Collective effort that everybody sends to Cindy or it's it's be the mayor I mean why shake your head it's the mayor it's Bill have things Cindy has legal things administrative things that have but everything does end up coming filtered to me staff members will send me refunds I I'll get things that I cumulate through Mon and we typically have a cut off that is like um 10 days before the meeting you know I cut it off because we provide notice and there are times in emergency things come up we time sensitive that we've got to amend the agenda and and to it but I do believe that even who puts it together is in the administrative code no yet you're you're in the codified OR ordinances but um my question is more around so staff members can add to it Mr Opel can add to it the mayor can add to it can the council members add to it I I think yeah I think I know where you're going the question so with regards to the resolutions um for example the CFO um may have to have some resolutions the you know just normal business um that they're sumon here from the taxes for construction primly funds things like that so that's where the input from the staff comes if they need an authorization for any of that any council member can propose any legislation so if Council stman I think initiated at least the valley parking ordinance you if he he becomes to the mayor and whatever the collaborative process is but um any council member if they see something in the code that they think needs amending they can present that and makes to the okay and it's just tradition that the mayor the decides to include it or not or is it actually of a tradition I mean let's get clear I mean tradition with been the mayor puts together the agenda because he's the one who directs the uh the professional to write ordinances or not I mean I don't technically have the ability to call up Mr oal and say well on behalf of the city would you draft the ordinance for me um that doesn't you know the ordinance drafting goes through the mayor so we may not necessarily think you know like that the same ordinance should happen but you know but I I see where you're going but where we're going is that we as individuals can talk ask about putting things on the agenda but we do not under our existing practices write legislation ourselves and put it on the agenda I was writing of legislation myself you know like I said I I often said oh well you know I think that we ought to do this you know it doesn't necessarily come to fruition I'm one person here we don't have like initiative in referendum from every council member to write their own ordinance and put it on agenda that hasn't been our practice that hasn't been our practice that just elaborate a little you know for myself my I learned bar that you know unless you really feel very strongly about something it's better to try and build consensus when you bring something to the agenda right so so things do come on the agenda that I have counil about and they may be routine matters or they may like you know wire P um but um generally I try to have some discussions I mean there's no point bringing something to the you know if you don't if you don't have any sense whether it's going to be successful right be was people's time and so so to some degree that happens so there's a lot of give and take here you know as the chief administrator kind of Officer for the city I'm in the day-to-day stuff right and so you know working 40 50 hours a week uh you know it's natural for me to have more uh input on the agenda because I know what's happening uh and so you know I think and to Bill out know good run in the in the form of government specifically that that gives me or gives mayor kind of more I mean f Act is I there's nothing really in there that specifically sort of there a preparation no but I mean I don't want everything else yeah no well there's a process in that section section about how the process works is that there are certain stages that go through and I can't write an ordinance or a resolution well I could but the way it's set up it goes circulates so when it is presented it's presented in the right format the right information I mean logistically like drafting it it's either Cindy or I doing that for things mean for the council member can propose legislation if they want and just for recent example the the Viet thing I didn't put all the bills and whistles in that I went through I put thought just put correct information to put in it then it goes the mayor and if you want to make changes it's input from everyone who seen it if if if they s want they want to put their their views into it fine but it's it's uh there is a skeletal process right I mean that we have followed but you know if it is true that we are going to open it up having every council member write an ordinance and propose it then be I have an ordinance propose I mean you know like it's it's not in the contion form of government under the F each you know each commissioner you know commands a portion of government there's a commissioner of Finance there's a commissioner of Public Works there's a commissioner of that and they run things directly under our form of government the way it's worked is that the mayor kind of you know oversees the administrative process of of our government with Cindy and Lindsay really serving more or less you know there are clerks but you're really you know like a Township man you know you know administrator you know and helps run the government along with everybody else at at city fall so you know given that structure uh you know that's why the mayor directs the agenda because he's really the executive officer I know it gets like really you know it's an organizational thing um but to my knowledge I mean we don't all individually have the right you know or the ability to spend our city money if I feel like I want to have an ordinance um drafted so but which is the way I I don't direct the city engineer to do something for me you know I I can't do that just like this the the mayor does that in in oversight but but well but that's to the way we work and try to describe it but you are you asking us if we would like to have a different process or that we can Pro propose an ordinance or that I should be you know that a majority you know you know wants it on the agenda um it could get on the agenda you know um because that I mean I'm assuming things get on the agenda that there is not always a majority um support so uh what's the what is the form of government okay so that's I read those rules I think you can also see I haven't looked at it recently but I looked at a couple years ago what you can do through a referendum so members of the public can put Orin to through referendum a little more compated so you know I mean I I think we you know we try to do stuff through consensus and and not you know there there are certainly there are things we disagree on you know um and but you know we are also I have to say because I I'm like a big fan of government that you know you try to run a government so it's not necessarily always disruptive so like I'm not going to bring look tonight I said to the mayor I I think the the the time limit is is a different story and I like I I have a different way of doing it now I don't know the government that I as we work through this that I'm going to introduce an ordinance and disrupt it and force an issue that's obvious see I'm saying there's a part of working together you know there's a part of we disagree a lot I think you see us disagree a lot you know like on on stuff and and kind of like that's our that's our family way um so I don't know why I'm talking it is I'm just trying to explain it because it's there are no hard and fast rules and there are is sometimes no hard and fast schedule and it gets really con confusing you know as to well how come you know in a representative government you know everybody's not you know doing something and I think that you know even the declaration independence one guy wrote it and everybody else said okay you know there there is some a process that you know we try to adhere to so we don't have like you know chaos or it's always adversary you know um if that's a it makes perfect very well said I think and also I think that uh you know there's a lot happening in our one-onone conversations that may direct kind of the how things go at the on the de right so and I'll also say that there are things in fact uh I'm not going to say what it is but at some point in the next couple of months I'm going to bring something to the city council that I don't support but I think In fairness to the the question uh the city council should look at it so and when that time comes I'll be the last one to speak I want to make sure that the process is open to the councel and that I'm not putting my thumb on the scale that it's a question that comes before us and uh that is a question that comes before us and that has um the council has the ability to say okay I support this I support this I support this or I don't support this and then I'll be the last one to say by the way you know I don't support this but I want to be I want to be you know I want to be fair about things so little bit about us wait the end consensus and I would rather describe it like that you know throw a bomb here what's people to make a decision that does May one one thing we are a strong mayor small community the hybrid of a f Dr exactly um you won't find that administrative C but you will find that at the county county always tells you there are various forms of municipalities when you get into the fauler act it can vary in v in many ways but we are a strong small City clarify I just didn't use three minutes I don't think did want to ask about the um you more I just want to ask storm water and and water quality award um what what is what is that it's a recognition of the city's work basically on swim water and water quality for some of the things that we've done whether it's been CLE creete cleanups uh consistently year after year volunteering uh whether it's been uh adopting orces that restricted than the state standards whether it's mapping all 575 storm drains whether it's uh the federal money that we receed for the work behind the firehouse or the $300,000 Grant from the national fishing Wildlife Foundation it's going to help with water infiltration M there's going to be a press release it will be uh it's a nice event it's not really open the public it's going to be a lot of elected leaders for the most part but uh there'll be a press release and we'll be able to read it um and you know for all of the good work we have done I think over the last few years and I fully intend when I get up to accept the award to make sure to thank you know mayor fall and and mayor jio you know 20 I forget what it was 2018 mayor Paul uh pass it and will voted on this the the last version of the SP water Control Ordinance that was stricter than the state standards you know to make sure that we're acknowledging all of the work that happens before us and around us and with us so it's really just a it's a moment to celebrate I think and to and to feel gratitude for our Partnerships and for all the many ways in which we're trying to make the the situation here terms storm water and water quality better so given given that we're you know up on the hill we're flushing hundreds of gallons of posos contaminated water into our system which I'm assuming is not getting treated for posos before it's released into Delaware is this kind of ill Tim maybe I all doesn't have access to clean water and we're putting contaminants into the River or wherever the municipal you know facility maybe a sludge that ends up on the farms that you know also it's it just seemed a little bit odd to me um I didn't accepting that in the midst of this thank you for that I think that the work that we've done has been good and solid and uh I'm pleased with all the work we've done it doesn't mean that we don't have well work to do or that there are issues that come up unexpectedly um so um what else to say about that okay thank you you can go on on their website see their how it's started to do this throughout the state I think will'll be the second yes municipality so you can see how they okay thank six Street T to follow what we just happened here so I wanted to come up and say exactly what they say which is I'm really actually not clear whether we're all able to consider any other places for houses or not knowing we have five that we need to come up with knowing that we sort of went around that knowing that we can't know anything about the 200 project knowing that other projects are out there that many people would like to know and then when brought up the ordinance thing I don't want to bring up ordinances on the agenda but I do want to know if this can be on the agenda discussion at least because I remember a meeting some time ago when this was just heating up the hill thing and the point was made from the Das that discussion of the village departments and other departments would not be put on the agenda not ordinance but would not be put on the agenda I think things maybe have changed since then because there's a lot of viewpoints that have come forward to the to pencil and it seems as though however you normally do things and whatever your procedure normally is and however the it does it seems like it's time to have some discussion about other options that we should be thinking about because the time will come when Maybe hopefully probably the 200 unit on the hill won't happen and we will have been we will have been inappropriately ignoring other things because we do have a deadline on this you guys tell us that all the time so I'm asking however your procedure does it not but can we please start having on the agenda the opportunity to actually talk about other options a lot of people have done a lot of work I'm looking into I know the village departments people gave a proposal although it was a Clos instead of open but we heard about it afterwards so I I would really like to have you consider seriously whether you can put it on the agenda for a discussion with all the interests that exist in the city to look at things besides just the hill and we need five anyway so it's not as so we can DOD that thank you Jeff 30 Street Wilson Street a couple of little things I just want and I have one issue I wanted to talk about um many towns what they will do is have op for discussion on an issue in fact this town did it I remember asking mayor 10 years ago to have a discussion on Pen East and three or four of us from town came in and discussed it with the council and town later came up with the resolution and started a conven and everything else so maybe that's one option to think about when there's an important issue is allow you ask people if they want to come in and that during a work session and have a discussion to let you know to let people know that you asked to do that so that might be one way to help between the two between the five minutes three minutes and and that um I don't I just want to go back the five units that we keep talking about were not they weren't we didn't pass the ordinance but we're not really in any je for any kind of lawsuit the other point I want to make is that up on the hill the number of units up there was put be 20% so it's 26 units were 28 and those units at the police station came from B and farm where they could just easily go back so I mean it's not this is not a big deal we were really at a compliance we would have been soon so I just wanted to make sure that the planner had how she said it made it seem more alarm than it is and the point that I wanted to All by the way originally got their their warant for putting in a $2.5 million PE filtration system at the Town know that's where the other that I did a lot of work with the town of Bridgewood with contaminated water and from Ley gas station over the years DC and other things the issue and I'm not going to get into a lot of detail tonight but I want to believe you with this is our parking orance is something that if um you know that e comic could have a lot of fun with um when I was at the planning board meeting they talked about putting three apartments up on a roof but even though they don't have any parking for what's there they have a credit of 27 because that's what they should have but since they not doing they're doing less than that because some of sites going from commercial to residential they don't have to put in any parking but yet there's going to be three units George Carling could um we're seeing it also Theo you know we put in a cafe you know the parking it adds up it's the death of a thousand cost I mean every time you don't have parking or every time Wave parking it's worse my end of town um I'll use I'll use what's happening the yac site they put in nine condos you know each one with a driveway they all have two cars to every street side every so we not only lost nine sight parking spots we also lost nine nine uh other sites on the street because they have one car in the driveway and one car on the street and now we're getting more houses and more houses in that area and we're going to have a real traffic problem and that's also true for the central business district but I think how the ordinances construct when you really should take Bird 255b Avenue Lille uh two brief items number one uh the uh I would hope that the generation of the the agendas and everything that's done is done in a Cooperative team-spirited opportunity to everybody get their eyes and Concepts in right and I mean as as reasonable health I would hope that is what's going on the last thing that I want to say because I got I got flied all right is that you know the concept the public participation at the end a lot of people don't have the the the fortitude to be able to stay for two and a half hours all right uh so you know if and again you guys are getting paid to be up here okay and we're not all right so uh you know that may maybe small amounts but you get paid lot more thans on city council let me tell you that all right but uh the uh you know maybe the participation as a conversation up at the beginning rather than try to wear people down and you can see that by the end of the night there's a lot of people aren't here and I would hope that you work in that way to get this resolved because this has been an issue and it's a talking spot of a lot of people and in the community that they don't like the way these meetings are done thank you like to offer any thoughts or question offer any questionss there anyone online I please have a motion to close the public say here we go