--------- Wait, are we live yet? Yep, we're live. >> Perfect. All right, looks like we are live. John just sent me the text. Alrighty. Good evening everyone and welcome to the personnel and administration committee
meeting. Today is Tuesday, November 18th. It is now 5:13 p.m. Uh this meeting is being conducted as a virtual meeting and uh well pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022 this meeting of the
personnel committee is being conducted via via remote participation. A reminder that persons who would like to listen or view this meeting while in progress may use um this Zoom access or can follow along with us through our um
YouTube channel. At this point, can you please join me in the pledge? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America >> and to the republic for which it stands. >> One nation, >> one nation under indivisible with
liberty and justice for all. >> This is this is always the awkward part for me. Luckily, the the Lawrence City Council channel, the the picture of it is is an American flag, so I'm able to look at that. Um, all right. So, pre um
voting members present via the Zoom meeting, we have uh the vice chair of the committee, councelor Luzon, uh councelor Anna Levy, and myself, chair of this committee, councelor Infante. Um, counselors, we have item 551-25.
It should have been all three of them, but last time we handled it as as a as a bulk. And um, just wanted to give an update that we did anticipate to interview someone who applied. Um
unfortunately this applicant has been facing um some personal emergencies and uh scheduling just has not permitted um that um that interview.
Um so now we are at the process we we conducted all the interviews and now we are here. I do want to give an opportunity to any counselors um who would like to either ask a question or make a statement regarding
um the process that this committee has uh went through last week. >> Uh Madame Chair, if I may. >> Councelor Luzon. >> Um um so it's my understanding that so we're not going to get another candidate
for education. Is that accurate? Cuz this one is not available today. >> I will defer to the city attorney. We do have attorney in here with us. >> Yeah. No, you've done all your interviews. All of your candidates you've you've graded and scored. Those
are the ones that you will be working with tonight. >> Madam Chair, to you, Madam Chair, if I may. Uh so and I my understanding is that because we uh you added the numbers uh at the end of the last meeting um it
looks like that most of the candidates for education are very close. Is that accurate or that still the same situation? >> I would say the the ones that were interview the ones that were interviewed were pretty up there. Um
yeah, I would agree with you. >> Um thank you, Madam Chair. If possible to um I know you mentioned that the last the two candidates were going to be sent
to the the whole city council. Can we send and I check with the attorney. Can we send like the last how many were really close in the for the education
>> that I don't have the final numbers with me right now. All of that paperwork was turned into HR and they did the tallies. Um but overall for the group overall I don't have the specific numbers in front of me. My chair if I may is that my point is
that because they were so close can we send more than two finalists. Is that a possibility? >> Council zone if you wish you can make a motion to send the top three in each division. You're muted.
>> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. >> Can you hear me now? >> Can hear you now. >> Yeah. So um I'm going to hear Can I hear from
another counselor? Uh if if I if I may clear. The only I mean the only other counselor we have here is councelor Levy and I'm gonna I'm deferring to the city attorney which the city attorney said if if we
change anything in the process it would have to go to a vote but um councelor Levy do you have any thoughts on this? But I will prefer I would prefer just to keep it the two if there no need to bring like a three unless that like
education three people and they they have the same amount or whatever that's you know points that we that we give it. Okay, I will with a three but I don't need we can get the two high uh people
who got the the high points. Wow. >> And that's what we announced before that we going to take the last two final in three. >> Madame Cho,
>> thank you. Councelor um councelor Levy, sorry. Um I'm I'm okay with either or. I think um the interviews last week were conducted very smoothly. I believe every
candidate brought their best. Um, we stuck with with the process that HR sent us. We asked everyone the same questions. We did not defer with side conversations nor nor any other additional questions aside from the follow-up questions that were also
provided by HR. So, I'm I'm okay. I think this process the way that this committee has conducted this process was great. Um, I'm actually very proud of this committee. I'm very proud of of all of us. Um this was a very um not not was
because we're still in this process, but this is a very important process. So um like I mentioned from for me, I'm I'm good with either either option. >> Uh through you, Madam Chair.
>> Um yes, councelor Luzon. I would like to make a motion to send the three last um with candidates the with the one with the most the higher scores uh for education. >> So the top three >> the top three. Yeah.
>> Okay. So um All right. Motion has been made. Is there a second? >> Excost I need a second because I also have a discussion for this. Are you seconded it? Councelor Levy,
>> I would not like to to second right now. So, because I would >> in order in order to go into discussion, we need a second. >> Um, for the record, uh, you may second it. >> Oh, second. Okay. Thank you. That's I
second it. Okay. Discussion. My only problem with this motion is if we are going to increase one area from top two to top three, we need to make it across the board. We can't just select one area and say, you know, just
education. If if we're going to make this change, we need to select the top three from finance, the top three from legal, and the top three from education um to make it fair all across the board because then as we know the comments
will come along afterwards. >> That was yeah, that was my think is we're going to increase one, we have to increase all. So it's not fair for like a one section to be increasing and the other two just leaving on the on the
same on the same way. And like I say, I don't see the reason why we has to increase it from two to three and just to get it just to prefer one, you know, for the other instead or the other three. Madame chair,
>> councelor Luzon, >> I I it's not that it's a preference here just for the uh so that so that you guys can understand my motion is that they are very close. >> No, I I get it. I I I understand I understand your reasoning, council
Luzon, but if we make a change to one to one cluster, I'm just thinking about afterwards. I can already I can already picture the social media comments, the the misinformation to the public, all of that. And it's already happening and
it's really frustrating at least for me as the chair of this committee because we worked really hard on this. We were we stayed I know you left a little earlier councelor Luzon the first night because you were sick but councelor Levy and I were at city hall until 11:00 p.m. The three of us the next day we were at
city hall >> until 10 until 10 p.m. So I don't want anyone coming in trying to say that you know we're we're not we're doing the the process wrong or which they're they're already making those assumptions. So, if we're going to make any changes, it has to be across the
board cuz this is just one other thing that is that they're going to say that the council did this, the council did that, and I'm just not having it because I know the work that we put in to to make sure that this process went the right way.
>> Oh, and and and Madame Chair and and if I may, and and that is my point because they are so uh they are very good candidates uh and and they were very close. So perhaps at the full council uh and with the input of other
counselors uh the decision can be more um um they can bring more input to the decision. Um so I'm going to withdraw my motion
and I want to make another motion. I think you you might be would you accept a friendly amendment to all three to increase to send the top three from education, finance and legal
to the full council for final um final interviews. >> I accept. >> Okay. So, councelor Luzon accepted the friendly amendment. So now the motion is to change from the two the top two
highest scores to the top high to the top three highest score scores all across the board um for the final interview process at the full council level. U are we I just want to check in to make
sure we're we're doing this all all legally that we're on the right track. Attorney Hooen are we does that are we missing anything? Does this sound >> No, as I agree with you. I would send the top three from each division. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And your motion is correct.
>> All right. Thank you. Um Madame Madame Clerk, can you please call the role? Wait, are there any further discussion before we do that? >> Um councelor Leosion, but I don't think so. The need of
sending three. So, I think that we can keep it the two, but I'm going to go with a with a majority. But it's like a I like you said before, we did a great job. We spend too many hours and
finishing you know and counting and the same question was made it to all of the candidate. Uh we don't have extra question. um just uh just to specify that they can do any experience regarding
the the the qualification that they have accounting and all of the other things. So and and if we are going to do this, I'm going to ask also that we should have an special meeting because 9 and the day is
if we take it like a maybe six or seven and we get out after 11:30 almost you know that in a regular meeting maybe a long long time and maybe by 1:00 in the morning we're going to be in there.
that we >> I think this is actually the perfect opportunity to state originally the final interviews were were scheduled for today. However, um our mayor is still out and our council president is still
acting mayor and per our per our rules um the the council president when under the jurisdiction of acting mayor cannot make any council votes. Um this has happened one other time uh when councelor Mark Llant was council
president where he had to recuse himself from any vote um and now it's happening again. So the interviews have been pushed for December 2nd and those that were called with um the top two did did
get their did get their notification HR called them and also sent them an an email um regarding this this change. So, from my experience on the council, uh, Decembers are usually way lighter, but I
do agree if if it's needed for a special meeting just for this, I think that might be the best way to go, but ultimately that would be up to the council president to decide. Once this leaves the committee, we have done our part in terms of the preliminary interviewing process.
And I think that is it. I think are we all on the same page? >> Okay. Well, I don't know. I'm going to continue with the two with the two ones. So, my vote is like a no in this case. So, >> okay. We'll do we'll do the we'll we'll
do the the role. Um, Madame Cler, can you please call the role? >> Councelor Anna Levy. >> No. >> Councelor Wendy Lump. Yes, >> madame chair Stephanie Fonte. >> Yes. >> Motion pass.
>> All right. Motion carries. >> All right. So, we will I will let the clerk know to ensure that the third finalist for each category be um notified and and to come prepared for the tentative December 2nd meeting. um
otherwise if otherwise changed by by the by the council president then you know he will schedule those calls with HR etc. But uh because this change has been done in the committee meeting I'll just make sure that all respective parties
have been called and are aware of the change um that has occurred for tonight. Thank you so much counselors. Um, at this point I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by councelor Levy.
Seconded by councelor Luzon. Um, madame clerk, can you please call the role? >> Sure. Councelor Anna Levy. >> Yes. >> Councelor Wendy Lon. >> Yes. >> And madame chair Stephanie Pante. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. See you guys later.
>> We'll see you in an hour. An hour and a half. Bye. Okay. Bye. Part: 2
Good evening to all. >> Thank you for being present today. Honorable members of the city council of the city of Lawrence. Today we recognize an act that belongs not only to the civic sphere but also
reflects the value of serving. Every position of leadership that impacts a community requires integrity, >> wisdom, and a heart willing to govern with the common good in mind. There's a passage in scripture that
always inspires me when speaking about public responsibility. Babylon, >> the Bible says that Daniel was placed as one of the chief administrators in in the days of the Babylonian.
He wasn't there because of favoritism, but because there was an excellent spirit in him, >> a firm character that made him useful for his generation. He was not placed there because of favoritism. And he also didn't
impose his faith. He was just there as an excellent because of the excellent spirit in him. Today we are here to recognize that this council is a place from which ordinance and decisions are made.
>> And so that each of its members are able to be guided with the wisdom of God. Brother Franklin Miguel is being placed today as a necessary part of this council. He does not come to replace anyone nor
to represent only a sector. But to join responsibly, a body that must work together for the good of the community. And our prayer is that God may enlighten him, strengthen him, and guide him just as he guides all who serve at the table
of authority. >> Allow me to offer a prayer. >> And before we pray, I'd like to ask God in the midst of this prayer, This morning as I woke up, the Lord spoke to my heart and he said, "I'm going to put in the
city of Lawrence the spirit of Joseph, the one that speaks That spirit is the one that is in charge of recognizing when the big cow is and when the small cow.
>> When do you invest and when do you save? >> So I ask that you close your eyes. Lord Jesus, >> today we present the city council, >> we ask that it may be a place of wise, clean.
Save the hearts of each one of the members. Guard them of unnecessary competence. Grant them the vision to govern with integrity. And we present especially Franklin. Give him clarity for each vote so that
he's able to do things correctly. Give him sensibility so that he can listen to the people. so that he can do his service with strength and honor. >> Cover him and his family.
>> Cover the city of Lawrence. And we pray Lord that all violence goes away in this city. Lord, we ask that you bring the spirit of Joseph over this city. that we are able to have the wisdom >> to do right with the with the resources
that we collect. >> In the name of Jesus Christ, we thank you, oh Lord. Amen. Amen. >> Pastor, thank you for that powerful blessing. That was very beautiful. Thank you. Um, at this time I'm going to welcome our city council president, Giovanni Rodriguez, to give some words
of welcome. >> Good evening. Miguel Francisco Miguel pastor Maria clerkto Bian, Michael Plant, Anna Levy, Wendy L, Gregory Rosario, Stephanieto.
Uh, we just want to welcome everybody that is here today. Uh, a special thanks to all the elected officials that we just mentioned. uh fellow counselors Selena Reyes, Vivian Marma, Mar Plant, Ana Levy, Wendy Lon, Gregor De Losario,
and the vice president of the city council, Stephanie Fante, the city attorney that is that is here visiting us as well, uh Tin Hutton, Jessica Ramire, the newly elected for the school committee member. Welcome. Uh and also
special tent for the chief of police that is here with us today, uh Maurice Agillar. Uh I just want to say a few things, few words uh in uh regarding to uh Franklin Miguel. I was uh trying to
uh write a couple of things down, but I mean uh I choose not to. And the reason why I choose not to write anything down is because I prefer to just speak from the bottom of my heart. I know Franklin for quite some time. uh Franklin Miguel
and myself we used to live together for two years. Um and we were roommate but back 2011 something like that. We have a long history, a long f a huge f good
friendship uh after before entering we were living together and uh we always uh talk about the city of Lawrence. Uh we always talk about different uh different things that we can do uh to improve the city. We
always talk about um how we as a as a as a youth, young generation, young professionals, how we uh as a civil engineers, both of us, how we were going to be able to do something for the city of Lawrence that allow us to uh improve
the city. Uh in 2013, I decided to run for school committee. Uh well, I decided to run for uh for city council at that point. And we have a conversation uh uh around Common Street with the current mayor at the at the time and uh and uh
and the mayor, the current mayor at the time, he was very clear and transparent that uh he was not going to be able to he was not going to be able to support uh our effort to join the city council at that moment. Uh we choose to uh run
in 2013 for school committee under the receiverhip of the uh of the state. um to uh to our school system and after that I decide to run for school committ. I joined the city council on the same
circumstances as uh Franklin is doing it today a month and a half earlier due to the fact that the current uh u city council member for district at the time uh have resigned. Franklin today have
joined us uh at this and he's he's going to join this council and one of the most important uh date of the year today is going to be the the most important vote for the city of Lawrence and Franklin is going to be part of
history. Franklin is going to be able to take that boat with responsibility just like many other vote he going to be taking about 600 vote uh or 600 items 600 topics we discuss every year and
those are about 600 or more items or uh different topics that are going to affect your life that are going to affect his life that are going to benefit you that are going to benefit all as a community and he going to have
the wisdom. We we we hope uh with the help of you, with the help of everybody, the family members, the friend and close f the closest friend that the any anybody around the community, uh going to have the opportunity to talk to
Franklin, to give it the wisdom, to give us the opportunity to uh to listen to the community and be able to take those to take a boat uh responsibly and those uh about 600 topics that we discuss every here at this level.
And um essentially what we as a as a community need to do is um make sure that we as a counselor we um understand the responsibilities that we are we are taking.
Franklin knows that well Franklin knows the responsibility that this is going to be for him. the change of his life, the change on his family's life uh and the change around things that he
do, said or even look. But he made that determination. Uh he made that decision and he also decide to start his uh journey of journey of service
uh at the city of Lawrence. And with the hope of all of us, he going to be a great server. Not a great politician because we all politicians, but service is about it's
about it's it's it's a it's is the is the point of everything that we do. The most important thing is that we're going to be doing is the service that we're going to provide to the community. And I'm sure that Franklin Miguel is going to be one of those that you can count
on, one of those one of those that you can hold responsible and one of those leaders within the community that are going to be able to uh speak from the heart, make those decisions from his heart and be able to
represent you with dignity and respect. Um I going to finish with one of that uh one phrase that um that um that his u daughters and son actually stated here at the at the podium.
uh one phrase at the end of the pledge of allegiance which says that we're going to have we're going to have justice and liberty for all. With that phrase, I going to finish my
remarks. Thank you everybody for coming over. Thank you Franklin for the service that you're going to be providing to the community. And thank you all for the opportunity that you are that you gave me today. Thank you. Now for the moment that you've all been
waiting for. I'll um administer the oath of office to Franklin. Franklin, if you could join me, please. >> I want you to say to the microphone so they hear you. Okay. >> Okay. >> Raise your right hand, please. >> Repeat after me. Franklin Miguel >> I, Franklin Miguel
>> do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support >> that I that I will support >> the Constitution >> the Constitution >> of the United States >> of the United States >> the Constitution >> the Constitution >> of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts >> of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
>> and the charter >> and the chatter >> and ordinances >> and ordinances >> of the city of Lawrence >> of the city of Lawrence >> that I will faithfully >> that I will faithfully >> honestly >> honestly >> and impartially >> and impartially discharge and perform >> discharge and performs >> all the duties
>> all the duties >> incumbent on me >> incumbent on me >> as a member >> as a member >> of the Lawrence City Council >> of the Lawrence City Council >> during my during my service thereon >> during during my service thereon. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you.
At this time, the council president is going to place a pin on um our new counselor. >> So again, at the podium. So this pin will represent the effort and all the work that Franklin is going to be doing for you on behalf of you and
representing you all the time. So every time you see this pin is your effort that are going to be on his heart. That is the completion of our ceremony. The family is going to stay and take some photos and they're welcome to do that. We're going to be getting the furniture out of the way up here. I do just want to say if you're here for
photos, we are starting another meeting promptly at 7 PM. So, we do respectfully ask that if you could just at that time, please stop taking photos in this area. Okay? But again, congratulations to Franklin Miguel, our new District A city councelor, and thank you all for being here
tonight. for anyone who needs translation services. We do have um translation services here with us. Please see this wonderful uh woman right here if you need a a pair of headphones.
meeting. Good evening and welcome to the regular meeting of the Lawrence City Council. It is Tuesday, November 18th, 2025. It is now 700 p.m. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of
2022, this meeting will be hybrid, allowing participation both in person here at the South Lawrence East and remotely. Um, you may also follow our page uh you may also follow our meeting through our
live stream on our YouTube page. Madame Clerk, can you please call the role? Councelor Levy >> present. >> I'm gonna be present. >> Thank you. >> Council Luzon
>> present. >> Council Del Rosario is noted as absent. Councelor Franklin Miguel >> present. >> Council Selena Reyes. >> Council Mama >> present. >> Thank you. I'm so excited to put Council
Miguel. I'm so sorry. Um, councel Reyes present. Fantastic. Thank you, councelor and council vice president Infante >> present. >> Council president is noted is absent. >> So before we proceed uh with the rest of the agenda, I do want to state we do have our council president here present
with us. However, our council president Rodriguez is acting mayor currently and per city charter rules, uh the council president cannot take any council votes during um his or her jurisdiction as
acting mayor, which is why today the vice president, myself, is chairing um tonight's meeting. All right. At this point, can you please join me in a moment of silence? And now in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for all. Councilors, can I have a motion to approve the minutes from our October 17, 20, 2025 special meeting, our October 17, 2025 regular meeting, and from our
October 21st, 20, 2025 regular meeting. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by councelor Levy. Um, is there a second? >> Second. Seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion on the minutes. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I.
>> I. And the eyes have it. >> All right. Now we are going into public participation. The first one on the list, we have Mr. Mali. Mr. Mali. Uh, please state your name and address for the record. >> 53 Chester Street. Good evening
honorable members. We the citizen are united to support our police officers union. Lawrence police department with the impeccable leadership by honorable chief Morris Agler doing excellent job to protect our citizen. Lawrence police
this union of pride and honor. Thank you for making Lawrence a safe city. Million thanks to our DPW workers because of your sweat and your hardship. This city is a beautiful city. Lawrence inspection department. Thank you for excellent job.
We support your union. We must hire more inspector. Lawrence public school with the impeccable leadership by honorable superintendent Ralph Guerrero moving forward. Lawrence teachers, thank you for excellent job. We support your
union. Lawrence teaches because of you. Lawrence will rise again. Lawrence always is strong. Lawrence always unite. We are proud to support our veterans. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your bravery. We must hire two
position in a veterans department. We must create best commission for elders. We must pay our long-term city employees the same pay like a new hire. We pray for the safety of all police officers and the first responder Lawrence fire
department with the impeccable leadership by honorable chief Delenny doing excellent job. We the Laurentian proud of the new police building the home to the best police department in the nation. We wish best thanksgiving
for all first responder and the police officers. Lawrence police, the shining superstar in the sky of Lawrence. >> Thank you. Um, the next speaker we have, uh, Council Rich
Russell. Council Russell, please state your name and address for the record. And also, one thing I forgot to mention previously, you do have two and a half minutes for your public participation. And at the two-minute mark, you will hear a a bell notifying you that you have 30 seconds left.
>> Thank you. Uh, good evening, council. Rich Russell, 34 Cross Street. How can you tell the elections over? They ain't repaving streets anymore. Quick question. How many streets were repaved that actually needed it? And how many streets
that needed to be repaved weren't repaved? I would like to thank the 36,041 Lawrence voters that couldn't be bothered to vote. You really did a great disservice to Lawrence. When will some of the questions or
allegations that are starting to appear on social media be addressed? When will the question of a city employee, a union member who is accused of talking in a less than a friendly manner being suspended while an appointed non-UN
official non-UN official accused of sexually harassing another employee only gets his office moved from one building to another? When will that be explained to the city residents? Will uh I use name uh out of humor. When
will will auto preinjer be filming the Christmas tree lighting at a cost of $38,000 again this year? Is Santa going to deliver any more $4,000 wooden chairs with the election winner's smiling face saying thank you for four more years?
When will the two sidewalks that were brought to the DPW heads attention by me two years ago finally be repaired? I were told they were put on the list in October of 23. How long is that list? It must be on the list just below the
renovation of Raul Park. That was talked about almost three years ago on a cold afternoon in uh December. When is a item agenda item 46623 ever going to be done? I leave that one
to the council to get the SPCA beating on a dead horse hotline number because I'm going to beat the living hell out of that question on this item. In case you've forgotten, the item was tabled. It reads, "Replace plaques on monument
at Tumi Fountain and Isabel Melinda's Park. It was put on by me while I was a counselor. It was tabled March 19th of 24. anticipated monument revisions after July 1st of 2024 with the FY26
uh FY25 budget last. Why was the agenda item asking people to pay for a portion of published ads removed? I is everybody on the council against trying to save the city some money? I better quit
before I say something that might make somebody real bad. have minutes. >> As always, thank you for the time. >> Next, we have on our list Kimberly Jane B. >> Kimberly, please state your name and address for the record.
>> Good evening. My name is Kimberly and I live in South Lawrence. I'm coming to speak tonight about the proposed camping ban for Lawrence. Um so um not to uh sorry to interrupt you,
but we do have a public hearing on that specific item. Would you like would you prefer to to make your statement during that public hearing? >> Oh, yes. I must have misunderstood. Should I? It's tonight though, right? >> It is tonight. Yes. >> Okay, I'll do that. Thank you. Thank you. The next person we have is Michelle
Feny. >> I also would like to speak during the public hearing. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, next person is councelor Mark Llant. You heard next. >> Good evening, council president. Um, good evening, counselor. So, um, Mark
Lant 29 Duro up here in our city. So, uh, as you know, we've been working very diligently as we're working on the LSP project, Lawrence Square project as we're trying to unveil the new science across the city from different corners and I'm keeping you up to speed on what's happening. Uh we did uh uh Jack
Cohen uh Jay Cohen earlier last week. Uh and the next two are going to be coming up on December 4th and December 11th. I know we have a city council before then, but I like to remind folks that these are happening so you could bookmark something on your calendars if you wish to go. Um December 4th is Timothy DC.
He's an amazing man. Uh he's a guy that actually served on the city council. What's fascinating about this guy, he worked he was in the Civil War. He fought for the for the Union and then he was from Ireland originally. Went back to Ireland actually fought for the Irish Republic to for freedom against the British British. So he fought in two
essentially two wars within 15 years of each other. Came back was on the city council served in the state legislature. An amazing story. I'll go into more detail on it. His story and is on his sign is on December 4th at the at Hampshire and Elm Street.
Randall Denton, and I was about to get the address here for this. I have it. Randall Denton is on December 11th. Um, his story is fascinating as well. He was a Vietnam veteran and he um he got the Bronze Star because he had some
members of his company that were that were caught uh and he was trying to free up his division was trying to free up um some of the allies on the South Vietnamese side as they're fighting the Vietkong. um and he was killed in action and his his is on the 11th. Give me a
second. That intersection is at the park in Bennington. And lastly is this week. Uh you already know about it. I already told you about uh Robert Corbo. He's also a Vietnam veteran. His story is tremendously tragic. He was a guy that went to
Vietnam. Um he received several awards there for valor. um had PTSD, came back to the United States, was at the Philadelphia Naval Hospital um at some point being treated uh he left. He was
AWOL. They couldn't find where he was. Uh he was a deserter, they called him and um no one knew where he went. They found somebody on the side of the road one of those days with a Marine Bulldog tattoo on it, but couldn't identify him. 43 years later, the DNA test discovered
that it was Robert Corbo um and he had a um a proper fit a proper burial here in Lawrence. Um and he um and uh and got the proper recognition that he deserved. So anyway, that's coming up this week and if I have a second, I'll give you
that corner and I um I don't have it handy unfortunately because I was rushed a little bit, but I will get Thank you. Um, next we have Council President Javanni Rodriguez. Council President, >> good evening everybody. Uh, thank you for the opportunity counselors. Uh,
councelor President Infante. Uh, thank you for sharing this meeting. Um, a lot of people as you mentioned are wondering why am I sitting down here and not on the uh at the council is because as council president Fante mentioned the
mayor uh is on vacations and uh since the 7th of this month and he will be back potentially at the during the weekend uh that's the last notice that we have and we are serving as an acting mayor. But the main reason that I that
I'm taking the podium today is because uh today we received a notification that uh the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and uh secondary education uh through the commissioner Pedro Martinez uh have sent a notification to the
district to extend or uh renew the turnaround plan u for the Lawrence educational uh system or the the district for the next three years. uh what that means. I I hope that um at
some point the le board bring more uh clarity and details as of uh what that means to the city of Lance and to potentially uh getting the district back uh to um um to the uh to be able to uh have the autonomy that we deserve here
at the city of Lawrence when it comes to our school system. Um, with that said, I just want to bring this up to the public and make sure that everybody's up there knows that uh we have received this letter and it's public on that uh on
that u Lawrence um school system or the school department or the city of Lawrence website. So, if anybody would like the details of of that that letter, they can download it there. Uh and yeah, I just want to make sure that everybody that is here today and also everybody
listening and viewing this meeting um that uh they can download that download that later and read through uh the meaning of it. So, thank you so much. >> Thank you, Council President. Next we have school committee member Lennin Roa.
Okay. Lenniuma 36 Columbus Avenue um has come to my attention and I've seen that meetings have been held and
I believe the public and this Lawrence itself deserves to know that we are choosing three school committee members to come forward uh out of the city council with the direction of the city council and
meetings are being held and they're not being public as far as I know is what I I'm looking at. I didn't even know the minutes were happening. I was a little busy. Looks like uh I am
the interviews being conducted, the public sessions are being held and required by law. I believe these things should be public and they're not being public as far as I know.
Every candidate I believe should also be treated equally and the community trust needs to be honored.
I am leaving the school committee now in January heading over to two different schools to finish my degree. And I'm going to make it my point to go ahead and train the new
school committee members, whoever they are, the three that we have appointed and the three that are being that were selected by the city by the voters as far as financials and any kind of
city budget that needs to be handled whenever they do take over. uh the the actual school committee whenever that happens. Hopefully this three years extension does not go through the three years and we can take it sooner uh as soon as the
school committee is um able. Um and I'm going to leave it at that for the next meeting. Um I believe that the city deserves better. Uh if these meetings are happening and really not being held publicly, I call upon you
guys to do so. >> Thank you. Thank you. Uh Mr. Roy, your time is up. >> Sure, please. >> The next person we have is Ricardo De Jesus. Good evening, Ricardo de Jesus, 59 F Street. Um my item is on the agenda, so
I don't know if I should >> uh which which item 245-25. >> Okay. >> That we're not going to >> 245. So, we're actually we won't be entertaining that item tonight. We won't be on tableabling it. Um Director
McCarthy did reach out to us stating that he is unavailable for for tonight. So, that would be um discussed at the next full council meeting. >> You are good to go. >> All right. All right. My um my topic is
the um the new floor plan um or the city done by FEMA. >> We're going to be discussing that item at the next meeting. Not not tonight, the next meeting on December 2nd. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
Um the next person we have is China Carter. I also see here that this is for the campaign ban. Would you prefer to wait uh for the public hearing? I don't see them here. Okay. The next person, Mary Beth
De Vincent De Vicentis. Would you prefer to wait for the public hearing as well? Thank you. Um, next we have school committee vice chair Jonathan Guzman from Zoom. >> Good evening, counselors. Can you guys
hear me? Hello. >> I can hear you, Jonathan. >> Okay. I don't know if the room can hear me. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. I don't know. Now, Jonathan, so I can't hear them
either. Um, so might be something wrong. >> I mean, >> oh, there we go. Okay. >> Can you hear me? >> Can you hear me? >> Oh, you got to turn on the mic.
>> We can hear you. >> My mic is off. Is off. Hello. >> We can we can hear you. >> Oh, awesome. Uh, good evening. Uh, councelors Jonathan Gooseman uh from 39 Lind Street. Uh, I'm just coming in because I want to just mention that the
personnel committee has been misguided uh overall by the personnel director and the city attorney. You know, I for I I did submit a formal complaint with the city clerk under the Massachusetts open meeting law to address a serious violation. You know, the city of
Lawrence has conducted interviews for the school committee appointees in a secret session and is clear on the guidance for the 2023 open meeting law guidance that interviews for public body appoints are considered deliberation on public
policy and these must be how an open session. Executive session is only allowed under the 10 specific assumptions and none of which applies to the routine of candidate interviews unless a actual candidate requests uh
such uh executive session. You know, the public has the right to witness these interviews and assess the qualifications of those seeking to serve. holding them behind closed doors not only violates the law but violates public uh trust. So
I urge the city to real realize this to release the minutes of these sessions uh to publicly acknowledge the violation and to reinter everyone that has applied. I also want to close by acknowledging all the elected official who chose not to listen to the members
of the elected school committee who were actively engaged in a transition discussion and by changing the structure of the school committee. They took away the opportunity for school committee member attorney Sandra Edwards who was at the table discussing a transition
plan just like Holio. We were unable to accomplish that and now we have received a letter to extend receiverhip for an extra 3 years. Thank you. >> Thank you. And my apologies. I was under the impression that Mr. Ricardo de Jesus
was here as a city employee, but he is here to discuss that matter as a uh resident of Lawrence. So, I am going to bring you back up. I'm sorry. Um Mr. De Jesus, that was by mistake. Uh, please state your name and and address for the record once more and you have your two
and a half minutes. >> Thank you, Councelor Ricardo De Jesus, 59 F Street. As I mentioned, I'm here um in representation of the uh um city most of the uh um pl the floor plan that was
done by um by FEMA on the city allowance and uh with this plan is about 174 homes that been affected by the uh flaw insurance that now they um they had to
pay for it. like if residents I mean the home owners is going to is been u really affected for this and uh the mortgage company if you don't if you don't put the um the Florida insurance they put it on top of the mortgage they are signing
you and they taking the most expensive one so which is not fair for um for the resident like two area that I can remark would be the u west tree west is not is not a flooring zone But they put it as
the floating son because they took as a reference the speaker river. I mean if you look at the speaker river behind the futteria to west street is almost a miles away in front of the the uh they say like check out or repair. So there's no way that the speaker river is going
to get to that area. But uh there's been a sign on that on another area a street. I street is behind is between the um right behind the school the le school. So that mean that the school is in a
floating zone which is not not safe because by the time that the water go up to the uh aent street that mean that the school is going to be loaded water. So, and uh some of the uh resident they've been contracting like a land surveyor
and uh they charging $600, but when they send that report to the insurance company, they they saying that that's not that's not approved by then that that doesn't mean anything. So, I don't know if um the city council can do anything like bring that item to the
table and discuss what can be done regarding to this point. Thank you. Thank you councilors. We have some items under old business that I would like to take at this time. Can I have a motion to take out of order item 4514-25
vote? I'm sorry, 451-25, review applicants and select appointee for school committee member education. Item 452-25, review applicants and select appointee for school committee member finance. And lastly, item 453-25,
review applicants and select appointee for school committee member legal. This is a motion to take out of order. A motion has been made by I heard councelor Rya, seconded by councelor Marl. >> Um, no discuss discussion discussion
councelor Le. We're taking this off just so I'm aware. What's the purp Why are we are we voting this evening on the matter or what are we doing? >> We're not. But there were some legal matters. We do have it on the agenda and we do have a city attorney here. Um and I would like to ask the city attorney. >> Is it still in the committee?
>> No, it's not. I'm sorry. We have to take this. We have to make a vote to pull it out of committee. Um, can I have a vote to suspend our city council rules to to pull out of committee item 451-25, 452-25, and 453-25?
>> I believe there's already a motion on the floor. Is that being withdrawn? >> Can you withdraw? >> Withdraw my motion. >> Thank you, councelor Reyes. Now, can I have a motion to pull these items out of the personnel committee? So, move. Motion has been made by councelor Levy, seconded by councelor um Reyes.
discussion. Seeing none, I believe we have a role. We need six to suspend our rules. Madam clerk, can you please call the role? >> Council Reyes, >> yes. >> Council Mamo,
>> yes. >> Council Miguel, >> yes. >> Council Del Rosario is noted as absent. Council Luzon, >> yes. >> Council La Plant, >> yes. >> Council Levy, >> yes. Council President is noted as absent. Councelor Infante. Yes. Council President. Oh, Council Vice President
Infonte. >> Do we have >> You have um seven out of nine. So, >> yeah. Motion carries. All right. Counselors. Now, we have these items under old business on our agendas. We did hear u two comments regarding legal advice or legal um guidance pertaining
to this to to this process. We do have our city attorney here, attorney Hooton. Um that I would would like to ask the attorney uh the attorney to clarify some things for the public. Tim Hooton, city attorney, city of Lawrence. Uh first I want to say that I
want to get this perfectly clear that I am not responding to the two people that spoke during the public meeting. That would start a precedent that we do not want to start. Um so we do not respond to people that come up for their two and a half minutes. I will however speak on
the agenda items. Um I have received the letter stating uh what someone believes to be a legal fact. Um unfortunately like a lot of people I am an attorney. I don't just play one on TV. Um so I actually read
the law and know the law. Um the uh the school committee uh the the the subcommittee which is a subcommittee. It is not the appointing committee. It is a subcommittee which looked over resumes. They will give a group of people to this
committee to make a final determination. This final determination has to be in public. It has to be a vote. The reason that you can do the sub the prior committee where you root out various people is because you don't want to embarrass people that don't get get make
the list or embarrass them when they're they're speaking and fi finding out that they don't have the qualifications or whatever. That's why you're allowed to do that in executive session. It is not an appointing committee. So, I know everybody likes to give legal opinion. I will give my legal opinion to it, but I
will put it in writing. I will respond to the state. But that that is this uh that is my opinion and I will give it to whoever needs it. But >> thank you. >> There was no decision made. There's been no decision made by that board as to who the final candidates. Therefore, that decision will be made by this board in a
public session. >> Thank you, Attorney. So counselors um now you're all aware we we did have that um public potential public o open meeting law violation filed and now you uh have
heard from the city attorney and um he will he will let us know when when that that is uh responded to. Now, can I have a motion to table I I'm sorry. Now that we're at this item, we did have it we
did have these items tonight um to be discussed for tonight's meeting. However, the final rounds of of interviews are going to be pushed to the first meeting of December, which is December 2nd, to give the opportunity to all nine counselors to participate um
during those uh final rounds of interviews. Okay. At this point, can I have a motion to table item 451-25, item 452-25, and item 453-25? >> So move.
>> Motion has been made by council marmal, seconded by councelor Levy. All those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Uh, councilors, uh, may I have a
a motion to unte it three to un to take out of order and also untable item 340-25, allocate funds in the amount of 2,316,57 with 60 cents from free cash for DPW
capital improvement projects brought to us by our DPW director, Jorge Haime. Okay, it's on the last It's on the last page. Page four. The first item on that page. >> You say 34025.
>> 340-25. Yep. Second. >> So, can I have a motion to take out of order and unte item 340-25? >> Motion to take it out of order. >> Motion has been made by council Levy, seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion.
Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Councilors, the reason why this um item, we do have our director, Jorge Hamming, here with us tonight. The reason why this item was tabled um originally was because at the
moment that this was brought up to the budget and finance committee, our free cash was not certified at that moment and our CAFO did ask for this item um to be tabled until we received that certification from the state. At this
point, I would like to call up Director Heiming um to give a background of the funding and how the funding will be used to the full council. >> Good evening, councilors. Jorgeime, DP, the PW director for 200 Common Street. As we discussed in the budget and
finance committee, I'm requesting your support to approve $2.3 million for our capital uh improvement plans. So, uh the funds are going to be used as follows. So, city site improvements like
a street paving, uh, sidewalks and a street signs, we're going to use $2 million and then the rest of it there is 316, 5760 cents are going to be used to buy uh
equipments for for DPW like a loader, a b cap and a light tower. So, >> if you have any questions, >> excuse me, director, we do have the packet in front. It is it is not part of your binder. It is it was placed on top of um the table for those that wish to follow along.
>> It looks like a yellow sheet. >> I see some were looking for it. >> Sorry, director. Continue. Okay. So, um, as I said, so the $2 million again are going to be used for our street paving project and, uh,
sidewalks and a street signs and the rest of it, which is going to be $316,57 are going to be used to buy equipments for DPW, like a new loader that we need for the winter, a B cap, and a light tower. So, that's what I have uh I
presented in front of you. So, I'm requesting for your support in this project. >> Thank you, director. Um, madame clerk, can you give a recap of the budget and finance committee vote? >> So, this item came up from budget and finance committee with a favorable recommendation. And at your September
2nd meeting, um, there was a motion to approve and then it was brought to everyone's attention because that's how it had come out of committee. Was brought to everyone's attention that the precache had not been certified yet. So at the time there was a motion motion to table the document. So this item has an underlying motion to approve. There's also a motion to table. Those were both
made on 92. >> Thank you. >> So we have an underlying motion to approve. Is there any discussion on this on this item? >> Discussion. >> Councelor Le. >> Yeah. Just real quick. So the news flash since the last meeting that we dealt
with is that the free cash has been certified. I just want to make sure that I have a fundamental understanding of what that is. I'm looking at the first email dated on our packet here from um dated October 28th. It says here the general fund has a free cash balance of
$18,394,361. So when the director is looking for monies for to do the sidewalks, street repairs and >> sign >> and signs. I get that right. Fine. That's right. And vehicle replacements.
Uh that's coming from that portion. We also have enterprise funds including parking, airport, and water sewer. That's not touching it. So this is coming out of the two two million >> 2.3 million 2,316,57760. >> Correct.
>> Yes. Okay, that's right. >> That's coming out of the 18 million and change. Got it. Okay. >> And when will this money be spent at through you? When will the money be spent? >> So, winter is the best time for us to prepare for the spring. So, next year we're going to be spending that money.
Do you already have a list of where these projects are going to be? Uh where where are you are you in the midst of working on it or do you already know where this money is going to be spent? >> We're working on it. >> On the street paving and sidewalk repairs, when do you think you'll have
an answer as to when that that lists that will be determined? Do you have an idea? >> So, we already have um a contract in place. We just need the money for that contract. So, we're going to be able to produce a list by maybe
two weeks from now. So, you're going to be it's going to be in front of you. So, it's going to be public. Last question. Um, I don't know about my colleagues, but when I'm going door todoor and I'm talking with folks, everybody's talking about the streets, and I get that, but
they really talk about the sidewalks and and I see that we're and I think I know the answer, but I want to hear it more publicly. I know that we have monies that we can dedicate toward the streets, the chapter 90 monies, right? 90 chapter 90 >> chapter 90 monies. And so, but we can't
take chapter 90 monies and put it toward sidewalks is what it was explained to me. Unless you do the entire sidewalk, >> we can use money from chapter 90. >> You can. >> Yes. >> Can you do it exclusively for sidewalks and not have a road next to it? >> But we what we do always is split it.
So, we do some sidewalks, we do some streets. So, but because we using uh site improvement money which is money that you approve for capital uh improvement plan. So, we've been using that for sidewalks. That's how you
see now that we are working on some sidewalks. What we are presenting in front of you is a million dollars just dedicated for sidewalks. That way you can see some improvements on sidewalks. Just remember sidewalks hasn't been touch hasn't been touched for years.
It's not just Ferguson. Crossree is a mess, too. >> I'm sorry. >> Cross Street is a mess, too. That's what I'm saying. So, I I know councelor Rosa is worried about Ferguson, but I drove by Cross Street, which he he lives there. He's a mess, too. I need to uh do
some work over there. So, the thing is what I want to say with this, everybody's asking >> to do a sidewalk in front of the house. So, I don't work the sidewalks like that. I go in front of the schools. I go in front of the uh elderly buildings, things like that first and then main
roads and then we go to the neighborhoods. That's what it makes sense for me. >> And just because I think this problem, you you mentioned it and I'm sorry to take more time, but you mentioned it, director, that that there is um sidewalks haven't been touched. I know they have been worked on, but maybe as
not as aggressive as as we all would like. If you had to look at the entire city right now, ballpark, I'm not holding you to this, but I want to get context. How many millions of dollars are would be needed to do all the
sidewalks that need to get done in this city? >> So, we have an study that says that you have to invest $5 million every year for five years. So, that's $25 million that we need to complete the sidewalks just in the north side of the city. So, it's a lot of money. We don't have it in the
budget. If I ask you for that money, we just have 18 millions in free cash is not enough. So we had to invest little by little. We had to go, you know, uh step by step. So until we get in a better place. >> No, but but understand the reason why I'm asking the question, I'm actually
doing it to provide context. So when a constituent of mine says, "Why can't you get my sidewalk done?" And I say to them, "Well, we're working on it. Name's on a list. We're hoping to get it." But what what I'm trying to explain is that that one sidewalk that's important to them and important to me, they're
competing with sidewalks across the city. And if we're doing concrete sidewalks as opposed to pavement sidewalks, I'm told by people like yourself that that's very expensive and that we're not necessarily able, although I'm learning something tonight.
the chapter 90 monies are I was told were dedicated for road work unless you have ancillary work a road and a sidewalk next to each other then you could have a sidewalk but you just can't do from what I'm told and correct me if I'm wrong you just can't we can't just do a sidewalk without a road done that's
what I was told may and so two things if I'm wrong on that if I was told wrong correct me now number two the person who's looking for Ferguson Street which is also in my district if they're looking for that sidewalk I need then they need to know that yes that might cost I don't know how much it's
going to cost but there are dozens perhaps hundreds of streets all across the city that are in disrepair that need something in addition to the schools the nursing homes and all the other places that you mentioned that are priorities so so two questions
chapter 90 monies and number two if you had a magic wand how much and you had all the money in the world how much would it cost to do all the sidewalks that we needed to be done in the city >> they Just to give you an example council also we two blocks I can spend a million dollars if you're doing sidewalk two
blocks >> I can pave maybe 25 streets with the same amount of money. So that's why we aggressively working on paving the streets to be able to use chapter 90 money and and free cars to you know do
some improvements in sidewalks. But again is is is hard to you know to do it all at once. We had to go a step by step. We had to uh prioritize. So we had to go in front of the schools. We had to go in front of the elderly buildings. We had to go
downtown areas. Things like where people walk every day. I know everybody's worried about the sidewalk in front of the houses or home. We're going to get there pretty soon. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you counselors. Any other questions or comments pertaining to this
item? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> And the eyes have it. >> Thank you, director. councilors, we have two public hearings and both of them are very important and um
um as I'm anticipating that they're going to take some time. So what I would like to do actually is go into the committee reports to get our city employees home. Um so right so we're going to go into budget budget and finance. I'm looking at the vice chair
of budget and finance. I'm council marmal through you vice president uh Ivande item number 43125 author authorization to expend $680,38 federal department of health and human services reach grant. Um this was
discussed at the budget and finance meeting. Um and it was recommended to come before us to the full council with a favorable recommendation. Um do we have somebody from budget? >> They make that as a formal motion. >> I do submit that in the form of a motion.
>> Motion has been made by council mar. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion. We do have I believe is Martha here with us tonight. Martha is here with us tonight. Okay. If there are any additional comments or questions pertaining uh to this grant
>> um 431-24 >> 431 any questions or comments? See >> I'm not expecting an answer this evening. I we're going to get to this when we get to the ordinance committee. One of the questions that I asked in the ordinance committee was I and we got some information back but I I'm not
expecting an answer tonight. But what I want to do is prepare our departments for this kind of question. We're constantly getting grant monies into our city council chair and I want to know number one the monies that we're getting. Are we spending those monies as directed? I would love to know if we're
spending the money wisely and making and and getting the the impacts that we're looking for when we get the grant monies. That's a harder determination. Part of it is more judgment. But on the on this the question of if we went for
the asked for the money and we received the money, we can definitively know whether or not we spent that money or not. And then we could ask the questions of what impacts did it did it get. So I just want Miss Vez is here, DirectorZ. I
I just um >> is that >> No. Who who's the Miss Hol is here. Um, I just want her to know that that's going to be one of the questions that I'm going to be having as we go forward on this. So, you don't have any answer, but but maybe through you if you have
some detail on this item that you can send to me. I'm going to be voting in favor of it tonight because we I don't want to spring this on you and I want to see some good work continue, but I do want to start looking at all the departments across and ask the question, are you getting the money that you spent? And then we can do the follow-ups
after that. So that's my request directly to Miss Holt. Where is she, by the way? Is she here? Thank you. I just want to make sure you got that request. It's coming from me. I'm not going to the council. I'll share it with the council. >> I'm actually going to request that you send that report to the full
>> council. I have to make a motion that we send correspondence to Miss Holt asking her for the details regarding the expenditures uh for the last I'm going to go back >> um I'm going to go back. Can we go back four years on that? Is that >> so spec? So, good evening um council
members. I'm Martha Holt. Um >> part of the I'm the REACH project coordinator. So, the Reach Project is a five-year project. We're on year three. So, this is actually um a five-year grant and we're this is our year three of the grant. I can certainly um get
information for you about >> particular to what you're you're requesting. >> So, my motion is going to go for since the adoption the origins of this of this grant three years. What monies have we received and have we received the monies that we received? And and what and I know that you have a presentation I'm
sure you gave to the budget committee. What was the money spent on? >> Do you want to keep going? You want to >> No. Um can I get a motion to for a five five minute recess move? >> Motion has been made properly seconded. Um all those in favor say I. I. I. And
the eyes have it. >> Somebody tripped. No. Yeah. So there All right. Counselors, can I have a motion to return from recess? >> Move. Second. Motion has been made by councelor Reya, seconded by councel
Marmal. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. The eyes have it. Um for the public at home, we we had a medical emergency in the audience. And I want to thank our police chief, Lieutenant Fleming, Officer Garcia, Council President, and others that sprung into action uh fairly
quickly to to help out. So, thank you to all that that did that. Okay. Okay. So, counselors, we have a motion on the table for item 331-25. Council president, you were discussing um wanting to send uh I mean, councelor Lelant, you were discussing wanting to
send correspondence. Would you be willing to accept that, Council Marmal, as a friendly amendment to the motion motion to approve? >> I do. >> Um mot the amendment has been accepted. Any other further um discussion,
questions, comments on the matter? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Uh, vice chair of the budget and finance item 432-25 >> through you. Item 43225, authorization
to expend $226,944, the formula grant from the Executive Office of Elder Affairs. um that was discussed at the budget and finance uh meeting to which a vote uh was submitted in favor with a favorable recommendation
to submit to the full council. I submit that to you in the form of a motion. >> A motion has been made by council marmal seconded by council Reyes. Discussion council the plan >> same motion as the last time I just want clarification. This is this is going to there director veles. Uh is this a a
repetitive grant we've been doing for several years? >> Um director the last >> it's marked this is airmarkked money that comes in every year depending for 10 years through our uh census the
amount of elders times it went up to $16. And that's why last year was 212 this year it's 226,000. the spirit of the the last amendment that was the that that was signed on to was just getting an an idea of the money that's coming in. What I don't want to
see is us asking for money and not spending the money. Uh do you have any kind of reports that show that we've actually received the money and then we spent it back and I can I go back four years on that? >> So that goes through the city. As soon as I come before you,
>> uh, uh, an account gets made. >> Yeah. >> And we have to follow the protocol of the account and we have to follow the protocol of what the state requires from us. And at every end of year, we have to give the services, the numbers of services, you know, and make sure that we've hired the people they want to know
because most of this pays for salaries. It offsets the other employees that I don't get through the city. if the if the um sponsor would be willing to accept a friendly amendment to go back and just you already have it. So just provide it to us in in maybe onepage document showing that you've done it for the last four years. How
much money was brought in through the grant and how much money was spent through the grant and if you could put maybe a sentence or something that says what that money is for if it can be broken down like that. I don't need a paperwork like this to read but something >> not a big deal. >> Thank you. Council Marmal do you accept
the the amendment amendment? >> Okay. Um, any other further questions or comments on the item? Seeing none, um, all those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Um, Councelor Marl, next item.
I'm so sorry. >> Item 4 433-25 through you. Item 43325, authorization to expend $9,000 fiscal year 26, title three grant from the executive office of elder affairs and elder services of the
Marramac Valley age span. Um, this was discussed at the budget and finance committee. Um, and a vote was uh was garnered uh to submit this to the full council with a favorable recommendation and I submit that to you in the form of a motion. >> Motion has been made by council mar. Is
there a second? Second. >> Seconded by councelor I'm going to say councelor Levy this time. Councelor Levy. Um discussion on item 433-24. >> Discussion. >> Councelor Le. >> Same same amendment. Um again >> this one we can't go back. This is a
onetime $9,000. >> First we're doing it. >> So last year we got some money for the police department but it goes through el this goes through age span which used to be elder services. Elder services gets title three monies through the state,
millions of dollars. Most of the money spent on um home delivered and congregate meals for elders and then there's a set of allocation of money that's put aside throughout age span to go out to councils on agings to apply for anything that they need and they put
a guideline. So this guideline was about health and wellness and we put it in to pay for our exercise program for our eldest. So it's $9,000. It'll offset the cost of what we pay for exercise instructors throughout the year for one whole year.
>> Is this the first time you're getting it for this purpose? >> For that purpose? Yes, sir. >> Thank you. No amendment. >> Thank you. Any other further discussion on that on the matter? >> Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. >> Thank you. Have a good evening.
>> Thank you, director. Um, next item, Council Marl, item 434-25. Item 43425, appropriation transfer of $400,000 from stabilization reserve fund to legal services for litigation. This was discussed in the budget and finance
committee and um a vote was issued to submit this to full counsel with a favorable recommendation. I submit that to you in the form of a motion. >> Motion has been made, seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion on the matter. >> Discussion. >> Councelor Llata. I just think it's
important. Um I wasn't able to listen to the committee meeting unfortunately. Um Mr. through you, Mr. Hooton, you're here. I don't want to spend too much time on this. I'm sure you could spend an hour and a half just talking about all these cases. Can you just give us a very very quick overview on where the
money is being spent on this? >> Well, it should be noted this is for outside council. Obviously, at one time I had two attorneys in my office. I no longer have that. Um, and in this year especially, we have um have, I believe, nine unions that we are renegotiating the um
>> continue, Attorney Horn. >> Uh, nine unions that were renegotiating their contracts. So, uh, it's especially large uh for the uh for for the uh labor matters. Um, so this is money that throughout the year. Last year, I
believe the amount was uh $325,000. This year it's 400,000. In addition, we have um two court cases which will be going to uh hearing in January and April. Uh both of those I expect would be covered by the $100,000. That's a
worst case scenario. I do not prepare for the best. I prepare for the worst. It very well could be that it goes unused. But uh that's that's what the use of the money we have. Uh we we average one of them is uh $22,000 per month. One of the law firms is
about7,000 a month, one is 5,000 a month. Um, so that that's what we use the money for. >> One more question. Is there any movement at all to getting additional staff in your department so that we can either cut these costs or be
more flexible and efficient in our expenditures of litigation monies? >> I I actually have three candidates for the second position, one candidate for the first position. I'm just awaiting the return of the mayor. >> Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions or just um councelor Levy?
>> Thank you. >> Uh thank you for coming and for being there. Uh you mentioned that. Okay. So one is 22,000 per months. Uh 5,000 per months for how long? >> That's that's our average what we pay these outside council for. That's for
the year each month for the year. So u the bigger one is because that's the person that does all the negotiation with the unions. So they they've had a lot of union negotiations. Like I said, I believe it's nine separate unions that we've had to renegotiate with this year. So that's not normal. That won't be
there next year because obviously the contracts go for a period of two years. So uh but yes, that's the monthly cost. >> So this is for the year end 2025 or this is for 2026. >> This will go until this this will cover
until July of 2026, the fiscal year. >> Thank you. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, councelor. Any other questions or um comments pertaining to this item? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Um councelor Mar.
>> Thank you, Attorney Council Marl. Item three 435-25 >> through you. Item 43525, the payment of prior year bill um in the amount of $29.70, an Amazon invoice. Um this was discussed
um in the budget and finance committee um to which a vote was issued in a favorable recommendation to submit this to the full council and I submit that to you in the form of a motion. Motion has been made by council Marmal, seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion
on the item. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. >> I. And the eyes I have them. Um councelor Marmal item 450-25. Item 45025, the fund transfer in the amount of $500,000 from ARPA funds to
the Lawrence Food Resiliency Fund. Um, do we have a uh Give me one second. Okay, we have this as a withdrawal without prejudice. >> Let me make that as a form of >> And I submit that to you in the form of a motion. >> Motion has been made by council mar. Is
there a second? Second. >> Seconded by councelor Luzon. Discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Okay. Now we're going into the ordinance committee. The chair of the ordinance council plant. Item 436-25.
>> Thank you. The ordinance committee met on 43625 to extend the contract. I'll read the number 8012-8012A with the resource development team for a longer term and three-year contract. This was sent up to the full council pending information uh regarding this
particular grant. We have received the information. It's in the packet of stuff that you have here and it looks like this. So I'll make that in the form of a motion. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by councelor the plan. Seconded by councelor Levy. Discussion.
Seeing none. All those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Councelor the plan item 441-25. >> Uh 44125. Remove hand. This is a remove handicap parking at 203 West Street was sent out to the full council with the recommendation to order a public
hearing. That's the motion. >> Motion has been made by council the plan. Seconded by councelor Levy. Was it Levy or Councelor Reyes? Um seconded by councelor Reyes. Discussion. >> Seeing none. All those in favor say I.
I. I. And the eyes have it. Uh counselors, before we get into public hearing, there is one more item and it's under item um under old business, which is item 245-25. Um, adopt new firm flood plan map for
the city and approve amendment of the city's flood plan management ordinance chapter 15-32 with the latest regulations from the National Flood Insurance Program, which was brought to us by our uh, director Dan McCarthy.
Director McCarthy did send us a communication earlier today pertaining to this item. And I just want to read this for the record and then I will require a a motion to table. Um he mentioned I have been requested to appear before the city council this
evening to discuss document 245-25. I am unable to appear this evening and would request that this matter be rescheduled for the December 2nd, 2025 meeting so that I may attend with fuller information on this subject. I have
requested that the MVPC create a new comparative map to identify the changes made in the map by FEMA and how they impact the city. I have also asked for some assistance from both the state MIMA agency and from one of our contracted
engineering firms on the changes and potential remedies to the map. I plan to provide some of this material before the holiday so we can discuss the subject informally at the next full council meeting. If you if anyone has any questions p please feel free to contact me.
All right. At this point can I have a motion to table item 245-25. >> Motion to table. >> Motion has been made by councelor Marmal, seconded by councelor Levy. Um no discussion on table matters. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes
have it. All right. Now we're going to public hearings. Councilors. We're going to take item 421-25 first fiscal year 2026 property tax classification public hearing. Uh madame clerk, can you please read the public
notice on this uh for this item? Um this is document number 421-25. It reads, "In accordance with chapter 40, section 56 and other applicable provisions of the Massachusetts General Laws, notice is hereby given that the city council will hold a public hearing
on Tuesday, November 18th, 2025 at the South Lawrence East Auditorium, 165 Crawford Street, Lawrence, Mass, at 7 p.m. The purpose of the hearing is to gather testimony, information, and public input concerning the proposed approval of the split tax rate, which
shifts its the tax burden between residential properties and commercial, industrial, and personal property classes for FY2026 in order to establish the residential and commercial tax rate for the city of Lawrence, Massachusetts. Interested taxpayers are encouraged to
present information by appearing at the public hearing. Written comments and information may be submitted on the matter. Please forward any written comments to the office of the city clerk, 200 Common Street, room 107 Lawrence, Mass, 01840, on or before 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday,
November 18th, 2025. Persons wishing to be heard shall be afforded the opportunity. >> Thank you. The public hearing is now open. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item, on this matter? Being none, public hearing is now
closed. Coun uh counselors, we do have our our chief assessor and also our capo with us um through Zoom here to present uh the the the presentation. Are we I don't know where.
Are we all set to to pass it on? Okay. Chief Assessor, can you hear us? >> Yes. >> Okay, you have the floor. >> Okay, can I share my screen? >> And while we in the process of sharing the screen, I just want to let you know
we do have uh Assessa Maria Howerin present at the South Orange School. She has hard copies of the presentation. So, if anyone would like a copy, um, she has it, uh, readily available for city councilors and the public. Also, for the
folks at home, uh, this presentation is on our city of Lawrence's web page, uh, www.c cityoflaw.com and under the department's assessors, you'll be able to see the entire, uh, presentation there, uh, so you can take copies and
review it at a later date. Um, any questions on the presentation, please feel free to call the assessor's office. Um, this one, where am I? Come on.
>> Are you able to see the screen? >> No. >> Not yet. >> Right. >> Are we good? I'll click on AC screen up top. >> Okay, now we are ready for you. Um, okay. One one more second. Hold on.
Sorry. >> Okay, now we're ready. If you can put it as um assess chief assessor if you can put it in presenter mode so that it would be bigger for us to to view. >> I have two screens on my end and it is
on this one. >> I believe this is >> okay. Okay. All right. Let's start with the presentation. Oh my god. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um so this is um we're out at
at the end of the um um tax classification um timeline with the state. Um so we are required uh the assessors are required to present to the city councilors every year um the tax options uh that you have in order to
determine the split rate uh for fiscal year 2026. Um most of the communities in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts who are doing quarterly tax rates uh who have been certified by the commissioner of revenue at full and fair cash market value are presenting to their city
councilors and selectment. Um, and uh, as of uh, today or this fiscal year, there are about 110 communities that have a split rate, and Lawrence has had one a split rate since 1982. Uh, the purpose of the hearing uh, is to
determine how much of the tax shift uh, is going to be paid um, between the residential, commercial, industrial, and personal property uh, groups uh, in the city of Lawrence. Uh in order for uh to do that, the city council must adopt the residential factor this evening. Uh this
will allow the assessors and the uh finance team uh to put together the tax recap uh and submit it to the state for certification so we can get our bills out, our third quarter bills out on January 1st. The maximum the city
council can shift the tax burden is 1.75 and that's by law. uh the shifting of the tax uh rate doesn't increase the levy amount. Uh that le levy amount is already uh determined with your budget uh that was presented in June. Uh all it
does is shift the tax burdens uh to make sure everybody pays their fair share. So for fiscal year 2026, we had to use all the calendar year 2024 sales. Uh again, that's required by the state standard uh and statute. Uh so for
Lawrence, the total taxable property valuation of the city for FY26 uh increased 7%. From 8.4 billion to $8.9 billion and that's taxable. That's not including exempt properties. Uh
increases by class. The major classes of the city of Lawrence uh is residential increase 7.1%, commercial increase 4.6%, industrial 3.8%, 8% personal property 12.7% and the overall value of the city of Lawrence total for real and personal
property increased 7 uh 7% uh from last year and that's a great thing uh for the city of Lawrence as you can tell the market is very healthy uh in the city of Lawrence u just like every surrounding community uh in the Marramac Valley um the average single family assessed value
in FY26 again increased to $479,000 marking a 6.5% increase from 25 years average of 450,000. And again, this was a year-over-year increase from 24, which was 405,800.
The median sale price for all residential properties continued to rise in 2026, reflecting a sustained upward trend in the local real estate market. This uh slide here uh shows you a three-year comparison uh for residential
class of properties again 7.1.1% uh commercial increase 4.6 industrial is very healthy at 3.8 8 personal property uh 12.7. This is our major group of um growth that you'll see in the next few
slides. And the bottom of the screen shows you the levy amount uh of the city of Lawrence from 24, 25, and 26 on the bottom right hand side. Uh the tax levy, no reflection on a levy, but the levy amount is actually the amount of money
raised through taxes uh each year. uh for 24 uh the amount was 84 million and then FY25 was 88 million and in FY26 is 92 million and this reflects uh proposition uh two and a half um which
is um calculated by the state and which is a maximum allowed that the city of Lawrence could raise in any gi given year uh without uh any overrides. Um but the state also allows you to do is raise proposition 2 and a half plus new
growth. New growth is uh simply uh explained as any new construction or anything that's added to the tax role from uh that wasn't taxed in the prior year. Uh this could be any new personal property accounts or existing u personal
property account businesses that purchase new equipment. Um, you know, the big ticket items are are utility companies like uh Columbia Gas, uh, Mass Electric. Uh, they reported a tremendous amount of new uh new growth uh, and that
was added uh to the tax bro uh base this year. Uh, to break um each class down uh for the new growth, the residential brought in $38 million and add a new value. commercial industrial um which
this 23 million represents a big class of their tiff um programs that um are coming on board which is a very very good thing for the taxpayers in the city of Lawrence. Uh they're finally paying their fair share. Um I'll give you a
prime example. the Uniteex company in South Lawrence uh which employs hundreds of folks in the city of Lawrence. Their uh FY26 increment um went from uh year uh I
believe years five from 50% uh from 75% to 50%. So they just received a 25% increase on their value. Um and that is uh reported to the state and again they'll see it on their tax bill. Um
hopefully they won't come in um fighting uh me. Uh but that's part of their agreement. Uh for personal property we uh increase the value by close to $60 million um required by law. We have to use last year's tax rate to determine
how much is that in tax dollars. As you can see in the bottom right hand side, the total new growth that was certified by the Commission of the Department of Revenue and the Bureau of Local Assessment was $1.8 million. Another healthy year uh for the city of Lawrence.
This slide here shows a comparison over the last 10 years uh of where our new growth has um has gone or has increased uh from $1.8 million. And you'll see uh we had a significant or tremendous year
in 2020. Uh that was due to the Columbia gas. Uh again, we picked up on a growth new growth over that past three years. And again, year over year, the new growth in the city of Lawrence has been very healthy. Again, adding to the city of Lawrence's tax base and therefore
increasing our uh taxing um capacity. If the city of Lawrence did in didn't have a split rate, um I think we'd end this presentation here and say, you know, um the tax rate uh which would be determined by the levy amount divided by
the total value of the city of Lawrence comes out to $10.25. Everyone would pay their fair share at that rate. Uh but this would be a significant burden on the residential especially our largest class of properties which is our single family
homeowners. They would see a significant increase on their tax bill uh if the counselors were to stop doing a split rate and going to a single rate. I believe their tax bill will go up around 800 bucks just this year alone. Uh so it's a it's a good thing that we're
doing uh this split rate uh to help out our residents in the city of Lawrence. Uh this slide uh gives you a historic data of the city of Lawrence's how they adopted uh what rate did they adopt the
tax factor. And as you can see here, year-over-year, we've shifted uh the maximum uh tax burden from the residential to the commercial, industrial, and personal property. Uh and this year, I just left it in red indicating that potentially uh this is
the best uh bang for the residential homeowners at 1.75. And you'll see the tax rate uh continue to drop year-over-year. and you'll see it in the later slides of how this impacts the taxpayers on the
average class. So, as I mentioned, um the Department of Revenue um actually calculates Proposition 2 and a half by using last year's levy limit. Last year's levy limit was $101 million.
We carry that over on our spreadsheet and determine uh that's our base to determine how much we're going to increase uh for the next year by using any amended new growth. And basically the amended new growth is anything that the assessors possibly left off the tax
road uh tax uh base tax bills um inadvertently um because we could have had a you know an exempt property that was added to the tax roles. uh we discovered a you know a two family was actually a three family and their value
increased. So we picked that uh information up um listed it valued it and sent them a tax bills accordingly and they have their right to appeal as well. Uh the state certified that number. It's just $7,000 but you know it is what it is. Everybody pays their fair
share. Um and then um that calculated 2 and a half% of that amount comes up to $2.5 million. And this year's levy, we used all of the 2.5 plus any new growth. We're uh certified new growth is 1.8
million. As you know, when we did the budget in June, um it was uh we estimated the new growth to be $1.2 million. However, state certified 1.8. We could potentially raise $105 million in FY 2026. We do have a balanced bud
budget way below that amount at $92,19,316 which leaves you an excess levy capacity of $13.7 million. It's always a a great thing to see that number um at that rate. It's that when we're definitely
not taxing folks in the city of Lawrence at the maximum allowable by law. Here you'll see um the average single family tax bill for single family homeowners. Again, this is our largest class of properties. Um and
year-over-year, their value continues to increase and the tax rate continues to go down. And the reason why the tax rate goes down is when your property values go up year-over-year, the tax rate automatically goes down. What determines
how far or how low it goes is your levy. levy keeps increasing that number will continue to increase as well. In the next six slides you'll see uh the factors and what we've chosen. You can go from a factor of one which is a
single rate and you'll have about 175 slides. Uh so we picked the top five that would be most beneficial um you know for the city council to make an informed decision. So, a factor of 1.7 reduces the current rate by 11 cents and
the CIP by 98 cents. Single family homeowners will see an increase of $23 or 5% and the industrial will see a $28 or 1% increase. So, you'll see as I continue to press on the slides that these numbers will continue to go down
and the commercial industrial will continue to increase um plus or minus 10 bucks for the single family home homeowners but several hundred for the industrial. I'll just keep uh pressing the slides
and we can discuss it at the end and I'll stop at 1.75. at 1.75. You see this is the best um possible scenario for a single family homeowner increasing their bill uh to $151 in a calendar a year. That's
roughly about 3.8 to 4%. I rounded it up. Uh condominiums will see an increase of $141. Two families will see an increase of $272. Three families 314. Commercial will see an increase of $392. an industrial
you'll think that this is a big number and in essence it's not. U this represents again the major tiff agreements that we have in the city where have about half a dozen active they're starting to come onto the tax
roles and also um although the values went up we lost about four industrial properties that we converted into u residential and we had to reclassify those. So, um that number of parcel counts went down by four. Uh and that's
why you'll see this number increase u by that amount and it and it's the it's a trend every year. Industrial always pays the uh biggest bank uh because their values are so high. Here's a screenshot of all the four uh five class six
classes I'm sorry factors that we just presented uh their corresponding tax bill for the average single family home owner and the increase uh in the tax bill here. Same what we did for the commercial. We just broke down those two classes of property to give you a
snapshot of what happens with the factors as you uh shift. Here's a uh comparison of the surrounding communities. Uh as you can see, Lawrence is one of the lowest tax bills uh in the Essex County or pretty
much in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And we also have one of the lowest tax rates uh and that's attributable to honestly the large city council and the mayor over the years not increasing uh Proposition 2 and a half
and having a solid balanced budget. Um, so this is again the last time you'll see uh the assessors uh with this presentation. We're going to be moving forward if we get a vote tonight to uh set a factor and put together the tax
recap submitted to the state, get their uh certification and approve tax rates so that we can um uh prepare the tax files, the third quarter tax bills that are be due out January 1st. folks will have till February 2nd. February 1st is
on a Sunday, so they have till February 2nd to pay the bill and also uh file an appeal on their value. Um again, that's important to uh emphasize uh that folks uh this is not the end of the rope. Uh
these u values are not written in stone uh only for mailing purposes. When we issue the tax bills, you can file an appeal. You have 30 days to file with the assessors. The abatement application is on the assessor's web page and we'll be happy to help you out u with any
questions. And I'll stop sharing my SC screen for now. >> Thank you. Can you actually leave up the last slide for a little longer in case anyone at home needed more time to take down your contact information?
>> Thank you counselor. So, that wraps up the presentation for the fiscal year 2026 tax classification public hearing. At this point, I will open the floor for any comments or
questions um for the assessor for the chief assessor and his office. >> Like to make a motion. >> Um you want to see >> councelor Le to make a motion that we adopt a tax factor of 1.75 that the res that's most favorable to the residents.
Motion has been made by councelor the plan to adopt residential factor 1.75 um seconded by councelor Levy discussion >> discussion real quick the plan >> reason reasons why I'm supporting this number one that's already been articulated I just want to pull them out of the what the chief assessor said
number one we're going from a split rate to this to a um go from a single rate to a split rate if we don't do a split rate but the chief processor said those single family homeowners would look at an average tax increase about $800.
That's a lot. So, number one, it's good to go from uh to go to a split rate, which is separating the residents from the business/industrial. That's number one reason why I'm supporting this. Uh number two, u we need to make this as favorable as we can to the to the property owners and 17
1.75 is. So, we're always going no one wants to pay taxes. Let's admit that. I don't want to pay taxes. The people next door to me don't want to pay taxes down the street. Nobody wants to pay tax. They don't think the money is being spent well and they would rather keep their money. I get all that, but there's still functions of government that need to be done and we need to do a better
job as best we can to make sure the money is spent wisely. That's part of our job as well, right? So, if we're doing it, let's let's try to make it as as economical as possible for the folks. Third thing real quick, what the chief assessor said as well was that we have a text a you're right, let me say the
right words here. We have a excess levy capacity I think is the terminology. A second excess lev capacity over the course of time we have not been we have not been taxing a two and a half%. we've been taxing. Sometimes we have, oftentimes we
haven't. And because of that, we have a buffer. Now, that sounds fantastic that there's $13,739,000 in change that we have not taxed up to over the course of many years. But here's the challenge, and it's not going to stop us from voting this way. But
here's the challenge that we just I need to remind people every time we have this vote, and this is the reminder. There's something called Prop 2 and a half that says that we cannot increase our taxes more than two and a half%. Not our individual tax proposal, but the
general amount of revenues that we get. If we don't, that number goes up. Why is that not such a great thing? It's not such a great thing because there is going to be a time in the future where things are going to get tough. We're going to go through a recession. Things
are going to be tough. We don't want our fire stations closing. We want to make sure we have police officers hired. We want to make sure we have the services that we need. Those are going to cost money beyond what we're going to be able to do with two and a half percent. I'm probably not going to be here when
that next recession comes around. And maybe none of us hopefully will be here when that happens if it happens. But the reality is that this doesn't need to be a vote of the city council. the mayor and the council can go ahead and go as far as you need to go beyond the two and
a half percent. So the public does not have the ability because we've saved all this money over the course of saved I'm using that in air quotes we've not taxed up to our amount that we can go ahead we go ahead in the future and dip beyond
the two and a half% which could be more ownorous to the people. So with our wise w eyes wide open, just understand that that shouldn't scare us. We want to give tax relief as best that we can, but just understand that in the in the future,
we're taking away a check in a balance that the public has to for us to spend and to ask for more taxes. I just want folks to know that. Thank you very much, Council President. >> Thank you. There any other questions or comments? U counselor Miguel. Yes,
I do have a question for the chief assessor. Um, the $92 million that you refer on the on the levy uh was that based on the 1.2 balance budget that $1.2 million that uh we had in the
balance budget, right? >> Correct. What you see on the uh on the presentation reflects the 2.5 million plus uh which is proposition 2 and a half plus the 1.2 million originally budgeted
uh to present to the councils in June. >> I see in your presentation we have for the new growth uh instead of 1.2 million we have 1.865. Um, so we have an exc uh excess of
$665,000 um from the projection that you already had with the $92 million. So it is safe to say that we do with the $92 million we had a balanced budget, right?
>> Correct. >> Okay. So, what are we doing with that 665,000 uh um 665,566 to be exact,
>> um I would um refer uh to the CFO uh on this um uh question if if she uh can answer that. >> Should be on. Yep, there she is. Hi, welcome. >> Good evening everyone.
So that question um council Franklin Miguel welcome to the council. Um that question is usually asked every year because we do have usually a higher new growth than what we budget and um the
answer is what we do is we uh reflect the 100% of the new growth that's um calculated and we adjust our local receipts. our local receipts. Um it's a good practice to be very careful on how
we estimate our local receipts. Um one the do not allow us to well or they do allow us but we have to explain any increases in the in the uh tax on local receipts from year on year and it's also good practice to be very conservative on
our estimate for uh local receipts. So the additional new growth that we're receiving will be able to offset our local receipts um and have still the balance budget. >> Well, is it safe since we had the
balance budget and the back in June >> and we already have an increase uh in that budget that was passed back in June 2025. uh can we apply that excess amount of the new growth to the 2.5 uh% that we
are um increasing to to to the city. I mean that will um reduce the $2,536,000 by $665,000 and instead of the 2.5 we would have uh
2.4 before, I'm assuming. Um, instead of I mean, we already projected out the new growth with a balanced budget in and $1.2 million. So, we have an excess of this $665,000. Yes. So, the council can um
has the option to reduce that, but I would recommend to keep the whole uh new growth reflected. And as councelor uh L plant explained, we do have a very uh significant um amount in the excess level capacity.
So I think it would be wise to just leave the new growth as is to reflect what we're actually getting for new growth and we still would have a balance patch. And like I said, >> it will be reflected on our local receipts. So I will adjust the local receipts when we report the tax recap on
page four on page three and then we will still have a balanced budget but it's up to the council. >> So I mean I was requesting to to have a reduce on the 2.5 I guess that we have a balanced budget already and we had last fiscal year we had um I have the numbers
here. We had 900,000 estimated and then we got a $1.4 $4 million. So that we still got an excess of five half a million dollars who which went to free cash and that and we we are
already increasing the tax rates uh for on this budget and we have an extra 665. Uh it is up to my colleague to whether we have a reduction since we couldn't do much. I was not part of the of the the
voting process in back in June, but we we should I mean we can reduce by 665,000 the 2.5 uh which will be applied to to all properties in the city. >> Thank you councelor. Are there any further dis um discussions pertaining to
this item? >> No further questions. No further discussion. Councelor Luzon, >> Madam Chair, >> thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so just for the people that are watching and for the people that are present here, can if we
approve the 1.75 uh suggested by councelor La Plan, um, and this is for the assessor. Um u can you please um go over the amount that is going to be
in that is going to increase to just to make it simple for the people that are watching like a single you have it in your >> Yep I have it on the slide. So >> yes >> the overall levy uh with the 2.5 and the $1.2 $2 million
will increase the levy amount by 3.7 million or excuse me one second as I look at my slides it's 4.2% 2%. And for the what that reflects for the single family homeowner at a factor of 1.75 is
the tax bill will go up will increase uh to $151 for a single family home. Condominiums will increase $141. Two families $272. Three families $314. Commercial $392.
And industrial $1,439. Thank you. >> Thank you. Are you also councelor Luzon? >> Uh yes. I I have another question and I'm not familiar with the term. So I I just um want to hear the explan. What is
it a residential exection? What that does? Residential exection. Great question. So there are 16 communities in the state that have adopted a residential exemption. Uh so
basically uh what that does is gives you uh the community an option of up to 35% discount for residential properties uh for those homeowners that are owner occupied. Okay. So basically you get up to a 35%
discount for owner occupied properties. However, uh not many communities adopt it um because what it does is increase the tax rate first and foremost and second of all uh there's always a
breaking point. So those properties that are higher than the average assessed value will see ultimately see a higher tax bill. So, even if you own your own property and you're in one of those higher priced homes in the city, your
tax bill will actually increase regardless of this residential exemption. That's one. Two is if you don't own your property and you rent it, that property will increase by that higher tax rate.
So, here we go. There's a lot of rent uh rental uh properties out in the city of Lawrence. those folks that own that property will pay a higher fair share and pass that burden on to the tenants. So that's why the residential exemption
is not um widely used. Um and uh I can give you roughly the 16 communities. It's Boston, Brooklyn, Cambridge, the Cape and the Islands um that use that um uh residential exemptions, but there's
nothing around in the Essex County. Um, for sure. Um, but great uh to bring that up. >> Thank you. >> Does that Are you all set, counselor? >> Um, yes, my just want to make sure I saw
you looking at your notes. I just wanted to make sure that you were also your questioning. All right, counselor. Any other further discussion or questions? Seeing none, we I do not have any amendments or any further
um motion. So, we have a motion by councelor the plan to approve the residential factor at 1 and 1.75. It was seconded by councelor Levy. Uh no further discussion from what I'm seeing.
All those in favor say I. I. >> Any nays? The eyes have it. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Chief Assessor. All right. Now to the last item of the night. Item
550 551-24. Proposed anti-amping ordinance prohibiting unauthor unauthorized camping in public spaces. This was brought to us by then Captain Now Chief
Maurice Aguular and also our Lieutenant um Dan Fleming from the Lawrence Police from the Lawrence Police Department. May I have a motion to wave the preamble of the public hearing? >> May I have a motion to wave the preamble
of the public hearing? So move >> second. Motion has been made by councelor Reya, seconded by councel Marmal. Uh, no discussion. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Madame clerk, can you please read the notice?
Um, I get it in the light. Um, the purpose of this hearing is to gather testimony, information, and public input concerning the proposed amendments to the revised ordinances of the city of Lawrence be further amended by adding the following
subparag of section 8.40 of the municipal code unlawful camping. Sub A is established function and purpose. It is unlawful for any person to camp or maintain a campsite or camp material in or on any
public property or in public right of way including but not limited to a street, sidewalk, school, public park unless specifically authorized during a period when shelter is unavailable. It is the purpose of this ordinance is to promote public health, public safety,
and general welfare and the economic health and well-being of Lawrence, its workers, visitors, students, and residents, including individuals experiencing homelessness by prohibiting unsanctioned camping and dangerous and unsafe conditions surrounding such campsites. The ordinance seeks to
improve access to housing and recovery services by restoring access to public space, the public right ofway, and curtailing the existence of campsites that shield drug trafficking, human trafficking, weapons, fire hazards, violence, and other criminal activity, and the create the conditions for large
crowds to congregate. This order, this ordinance shall be applied to all campsites and camping on all public property, including but not limited to streets, sidewalks, and public rights of way. subb definitions to camp meaning to pitch, erect or occupy a campsite or use
camp materials for the purposes or facilitating outdoor sheltering either temporarily or permanently. Two, campsite meaning any place upon city property where tent, tarp, or other temporary structure is established for the purpose of maintaining an outdoor
shelter. Camp material, meaning items used to establish or facilitate occupancy of a campsite, including tents, tarps, huts, awnings, leantos, or other temporary structures, as well as large furniture, stoves, and other cooking instruments, and other
collections of personal property that are reasonably appear to be arranged or used to accommodate to camping. City property means all property, parks, rights of way, parking lots, easements, and other land owned, leased, controlled, or managed by the city of Lawrence. Emergency shelter space shall
mean city authorized location providing temporary shelter or alternative sleeping practically available to persons experiencing homelessness. Emergency shelter space shall be a shelter, housing, accommodation, or alternative sleeping space that maintains policies and procedures for
accommodating under the Americans with Disability Act. If there is no emergency shelter space available in the city of Lawrence, emergency shelter space may be provided by a city authorized location outside of the city of Lawrence. Period. When shelter is unavailable means a length of time in which there is no
emergency shelter. No emergency shelter space available to an individual experiencing homelessness. Personal property means items that can reasonably be identified as belonging to an individual and have apparent value or utility. Sub camping regulations. No
person may occupy a campsite inconsistent with their regulations in the chapter unless specifically authorized by the mayor in an emergency circumstance. Any conditions imposed will include a condition requiring that the applicant provide evidence of
adequate insurance coverage and agree to indemnify the city for liability, damage, or exposure occurring in the city as a result of activities for the applicant. All specific authorizations shall include the exact date, times, and locations covered by the exemption. When
the temporary placement of camping materials has been authorized, an individual that has placed camping materials on a city property shall remove said materials according to the specific limitations set forth at that location. No person may sleep on a public sidewalk, street, or alleyway at
any time as a matter of individual and public safety. No persons may sleep in any pedestrian or vehicular entrance to a public or private property budding said public sidewalk. Restrictions on unlawful camping during periods when shelter is unavailable.
Prohibition against campsites and camping shall not apply during periods when shelter is unavailable with one exception. Proh prohibition against campsites and camping shall apply during a period when shelter is unavailable on city property within a thousand feet of any public or private school. City
officials shall maintain and regularly revise a shelter that is communicated to the Lawrence Police Department and other city departments for the purpose of identifying available shelter space during a period when shelter is unavailable or when campsite is
specifically authorized. A campsite or use of a camping material must comply with existing state and local law to ensure that public health and safety of those around the campsite. The mayor in consultation with the Lawrence Police Department and other relevant city departments is hereby authorized to
promulgate any additional restrictions relative to the time, place, and manner for camping and density of campsites during any period when shelter during any period when shelter is unavailable in order to advance the public safety maintain access to public rightways and support the effective operation of
facilities which the schools, shelters and other healthc care institutes during such periods. Sub E is offer of shelter. In the event of a violation of the ordinance, the city shall provide or cause to be provided an offer of available emergency shelter space to an
individual experiencing homelessness and when requested transportation to the available emergency shelter space. Each emergency shelter space offered to an individual shall be at a shelter, housing accommodation, or alternative sleeping space that maintains policies
and procedures for accommodation under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Sub F, removal and disposition, release of personal property. Once the city has engaged an individual as described in section E, offer of shelter, and the individual has either accepted or
declined the offer, the city shall remove any campsite or camp materials not removed by the individual. Items having no apparent utility or monetary value and items in unsanitary condition may be discarded. Weapons, drug, paraphernalia, and other items appearing
to be stolen. An evidence of a crime may be retained as evidence by the police department until an alternative disposition is determined. All personal property removed from a campsite which is not disposed of held as evidence as provided above shall be stored by the Lawrence Police Department for a minimum
of 30 days during which time it shall be made reasonably available to release to an individual confirming ownership. Subg is noticed to individuals immediately upon passage. The city shall distribute leaflets to individuals and post weather resistance signs in
locations where concentrated numbers of campsites provide additional actual notice of this ordinance in the effective date. The leaflet shall contain a written copy of this ordinance and written copies of additional resources upon the effective date of the ordinance. Once the city has engaged an
individual as described in section D an offer of shelter, no further notice is required to enforce this to enforce this ordinance. When the city notifies an individual the location When the city notifies an individual located in any campsite that a period
when shelter is unavailable has ended, the individual shall have 48 hours to remove their campsite materials. Penalty for violations. Individuals in violation of this ordinance refuse to remove or allow for the removal of campsite or camp materials as described in section E
or who do reestablish a campsite following the removal pursuant to section E shall be subject to penalties. This ordinance shall enforce by the Lawrence Police Department as well as any sworn law enforcement agency empowered to make an arrest within the jurisdiction of the boundaries of city of Lawrence. Any of the following
penalties may apply. Sub one. All enforcement methods authorized by law, including mass general law, chapter 40, section 21, noncriminal disposition authorized by Mass General Law, chapter 40, section 21D, or enforcement of authorization of Mass General Law,
chapter 272, section 59, ordinance or regulation regarding street reservations, or parkways, alcoholic beverages, profanity, arrests without warrant. If the Lawrence Police Department or other duly authorized officer on scene determines a violation
of Mass General law chapter 272 section 59 has occurred in their presence. This section shall go into effect 7 days after the date of the passage of the permit. Any individual located on a campsite to remove camping materials in order to comply with the ordinance. To the extent that there exist any
ordinances to the contrary, they are hereby repealed in that respect. Only persons wishing to be heard shall be afforded the opportunity. >> Thank you. The public hearing is now open. Before we proceed with the public hearing, can I just have a show of hands of how many individuals are here to
speak publicly on this matter? About 10 about 10 people. Okay. So, for the for the sake of timing, I'm going to um give you guys an opportunity to speak for three minutes. usually public hearing the way we do earlier is two and a half. I'm going to give you guys three
minutes and uh to address this item um if more time is needed depending on the conversation goes I won't restrict you of that but I I do want to be considerate of the time that we are here as well. I'm sure you guys are all
tired. Um so with that being said the first person whom would like to speak on this matter may come up to the podium and we have an actually can we start we have one person on Zoom and my apologies
we have one person on Zoom who wishes to speak. Can we start with that one individual on Zoom please and that is uh school committee member Jonathan Guzman. >> Good evening council. Can you hear me? >> We can hear you. Um, at the three at the
2 and 1/2 minute mark, you will hear the bell. At the 3 minute mark, you will hear another bell. Um, committee man, can you please state your name and address for the record? >> Uh, Jonathan Gooseman, 39 Lind Street. Uh, good evening, councilors. I want to
urge you to not pass this proposed anti-Campton ordinance. You know, communities across the country that have adopted similar measures have seen that criminalizing people for sleeping in public spaces does not solve homelessness. Uh it only makes it worse.
Cities like Austin, Denver's, uh Portland have struggled with these ordinance. Instead of reducing encampments, they have displaced vulnerable residents, push them into more dangerous areas and burdened courts and jails with cases that do not do
anything to address the root cause. You know, here in Lawrence, we we know that homelessness is is driven by the lack of affordable housing, the mental health challenges, and the economic instability. And punishing people for uh trying to survive outdoors when they
have nowhere else to do is not only ineffective but it's harmful. So uh criminal records make it harder for people to to find jobs and housing and trapping them in a cycle of poverty. you know, police enforcement also strains
community trust and d and it pushes away from the resources, away from the real solutions that we're trying to accomplish here. So, we should look into a way of investing in shelter capacity and supportive housing and outreach
services, not an ordinance that is going to be criminalizing poverty. So passing this measure will send a wrong message that our city responds to human suffering with punishing rather than than compassion. And I ask you to for
you to reject this ordinance and instead commit to a policy that uplifts and protects our most vulnerable neighbors here in Lawrence. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, we will continue with the next individual. Thank you. Name and address for the
record, please. >> Michelle Feny, 15 Row Street. >> I'm sorry. It was 15 >> 15 Row R. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's in my district. >> I'm a pain in Stephanie's butt.
Um, I want to echo everything that Jonathan just said. Um, he mentioned Denver and Austin in in t cities that feel really far away, but the city of Boston implemented something like this in 2024. They've seen increases of fat
in fatal overdoses. They've seen um increases in um infectious diseases. Um, when you push out communities and make them disperse and displace, our community outreach folks don't know where to find them. They don't have a
way to reach them and provide them with the care that they need. Um, to to further what Jonathan said, finding people, if we were to not to if we're like, "All right, we're not going to we're not going to arrest them and jail them because it'll set them back." Finding them, where are they going to come up with the money? That further
sets them back as well. jailing them prevents them from getting job opportunities, prevents them from getting shelter opportunities, prevents them from getting housing, permanent housing, prevents them from getting potentially placed in rehab facilities, which if they're dealing with addiction, that's kind of what would be the ideal
maybe if they choose it. The other thing is is forcing people into rehab doesn't work either. It can be cruel and harmful as well. Um, I also want to note that I looked at the um, municipal opioid
abatement funding that the city of Lawrence had for fiscal year 2024. We spent 14% of that. We have $1.4 million in that that was set aside in 2024. We spent $168,000.
26% of that went to sweeps. 20% of that went to the Lawrence Police Department under the category of connecting to care. I don't know how the police department is connecting people to health um health
outcomes. Uh sorry, I'm a little nervous. So, um but I'm not entirely sure where that money was spent or how it was spent. I would love to see how it was spent if we could have, you know, access to a public record of where that
$35,000 went. But that means that there is over $1 million sitting somewhere that could be used for harm reduction, that could be used for housing. We know that shelters are they they provide a service. They're great, but they also
have high barriers to get into them. You have to be in and out at certain times. You have to be clean. Lower barrier shelters are needed. Um, day shelters so people can just get in from the cold would be great. There are other options to helping the unhoused than just
telling them you got to go cuz where are they going to go when you kick them out? It sounds like this this proposal is banning homelessness in Lawrence. And Lawrence has always been a home for anyone who needed it. That's our city's history. And it's alarming that in this
current administration with um social spending being cut that we're moving this way. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you so much Michelle. Um next name and address for the record. >> Mali 53 Chester Street. Good evening
honorable members. In this important public hearing on the issad issue of the homelessness in our city, we the Laurentian are one city on Gul proud because our city are taking this challenge and leadership to resolve the
most complex issues of the human civilization about the homeless. Harvard University scholars tell us hu the issue of the homeless is a complex issues and need the team of the expert from the
psychology substance abuse and economic advisor to help the homeless people in this complex issue. We the Laurenian are united to find the strategic approach to
resolve our homeless situation. And how we can resolve this situation while many of these people in this unfortunate situation are also veterans. The people who fight bravely for we have the we
have the best democracy in the nation. They sacrifice everything. how we can turn our back to our homeless who there are veterans on the street and this camp. We must have a direct help for this unfortunate homeless veterans and
everybody in the in they are in this category. We as a laorentian one city under God we don't judge these people for because economic unfortunate situation they are. We have to resolve this this problem and we are strong and
united to address this problem the most humanitarian way in this below degree temperature. How we can take away the homeless veteran, homeless people that is sleeping on the side. We tell them go where? There is nowhere they can go. We
Laurentian one city under God. We have to resolve this issue the most human possible by asking having the strategical planning to address the needs of these homeless many of them veterans from psychological need
economic needs and all these issues we have to address. So we respectfully as a citizen in this month of important holiday Thanksgiving we ask with this honorable council to delay ruling in
this voting in this important humanitarian ordinance and order. Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Mali. Um next speaker please. Name and address for the record. >> Uh my name is Christy Gren. Actually I'm homeless.
>> I'm Can you repeat your your name please? Christy Gender. >> Christie, thank you. >> Um, I think they should not pass this bill. Um, I'm actually a person from being homeless out here from being
I came over here. I was homeless. I've been incarcerated. Um, and um, I suffer from substance abuse, but I'm in recovery. Um, I'm still homeless, but I'm, like I said, in recovery. Um, I lost my daughter out here from substance
abuse also. Um, I've over also overdosed out here due to substance abuse. Um, and I don't know, but they need to come up with some way to help these people out here that are suffering from substance abuse. There's not enough services out here for us. There's not enough housing
out here for us. I've been trying to get housed and trying to get some kind of services for a long time. Um, and I don't know, but they hopefully can come up with something for us. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you. And thank you for sharing
your story with us. Um, next individual, please, that would like to speak. Name and address for the record. >> William Moran, 199 Park Street. Uh, good evening. Um, I just want to talk I'm going to go through this real quick
here. I know I got short of time. I want to talk about something that affects our entire community. You know, the policies that we use to address homelessness. I've been through part of the Dream Center um and the Dream Center network is throughout the United States. I get
an opportunity to go through to other cities throughout the United States. uh through the Dream Center network, you know, and one of the things I've seen through these cities that try to implement these uh anti-amping laws believing that it fixes the issues. Come
to find out, they haven't been working in none of those cities. Uh those failing cities, you know, uh it doesn't reduce homelessness. They don't make our streets safer and they don't solve the real problems people are facing, the root of the problem. First, these laws
again don't reduce homelessness. They just move it. when someone's sold or they come and they grab the stuff and pack it up, throw it away, you know, they suddenly um you know, they have to relocate. They relocate to other places, hidden places um instead of the places
that they were in. Uh the root cause, as we know, is lack of affordable housing. There's a lot of mental health needs, job loss, the rising of cost, all that stuff remains untouched. Second, anti-laws, camping laws criminalize people trying to survive.
people um you know sleeping, resting, covering up with a blanket are basic human actions. And when these actions lead to fines, obviously not jail times. We trap people in a cycle that makes them escaping homelessness almost impossible. You know, somebody mentioned
can't be paying fines. Warrants are issued because they can't show up to court and a lot of things happen from there. Third, enforcing these laws is far more expensive than offering a true real solution. You know, cities spend large amounts of
money on police responses. You know, sending cops to go do the cleanups, the court processing, all this other stuff. You know, studies show again and again that providing shelter, housing, support cost taxpayers less and actually works. Fourth, these laws make outreach, those
of us that does outreach and support, much more difficult because these individuals, they get moved placed all over the different places and it's hard for us to find them. Uh when people are constantly being moved from place to place, us service providers can't find them or they don't want to tell us where
it is in fear of that it's going to get known to the city or law enforcement and they're going to lose everything again or things are going to get interrupted. Medical stuff gets interrupted. case managers lose contact. We see that and most of all trust breaks down.
Anti-amp anti-ampy laws does not improve public safety and we've seen it from other cities that try to implement this. They don't address mental health, addiction or or sanitation at all. Only they they only create instability, push people into hidden and unsafe areas
where conditions get worse for every for for everyone, you know. But most importantly, anti-amping laws, they target poverty, not crime. Being homeless is not a crime. I was homeless for many, many years. And those that know me in the city of Lawrence, for
many, many years, I was homeless. >> And it is often the result of trauma, illness, bad luck, and so many other stuff that's uh the systems failed the people. When we punish people for being poor or unhoused or whatever the illness they're going through, we don't build strong communities. We weaken it.
>> Thank you, Mr. Moran. Um, next speaker, please. like it's going to be repeat. Kelly Frasier currently at 157 Lawrence Street here in um not going to repeat everything that everybody has said, but from being an advocate out here working with the homeless in the city of Lawrence. When
you do a no tent law, it's just going to cause them to be what? Arrested. Because they're not going to follow rules. They're not going to follow laws. They're homeless. When they get arrested, they go to court. they getting let back out and then they're just going into our hallways, public parks, under the bridges, everything like that. We
have to come to a resolution that we can work together to help them. Our shelters, what do we hold? 30 to 50 people. What's our homeless count now? Up to 300, I'm hearing. Um, I just think the no tent law is just going to be like the rest of the cities and you're going to have more problems here in the city
than anything. I think there's a resolution that if everybody comes to the same table and works together, there's resolutions that can help the homeless here in the city of Lawrence. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Kelly. Next speaker. >> Good evening everybody. My name is Jose
Diaz. I am a chaplain with the International Alliance of Chaplain. I'm a captain. >> Can you give us the the address, please? >> My address is 57 Oakland A Methu in Massachusetts. >> Thank you. >> Even though I'm not a resident of
Lawrence, I've been involved with several organizations, you name it. Red Cross, fire department, Lawrence Community work, several other institution that I rather
keep quiet. The reason we are here today is simple. We work for the citizens of this country. One example is very very very
common and very simple today. A gentleman just fall today. We didn't decided to go to court. We didn't punish him. It wasn't his
fault. We are here to protect and serve our citizen. I don't know if you guys are aware that just last month there was a graduation
for Lawrence Community and Meth Methuan Coalition and the result was 25 members of the coaching recovery system. That's a program that is starting to build
ground and strength to help our communities to get out of the situations that we are seeing. Many people have mentioned what happened when you have a problem
with the court system. If you go to court for any reasons, you don't qualify for housing. So, not just people who are out there on the street are going to have more problems
that they already have, but our officers as well because now we're going to send them to face people who probably are having mental challenges at the time
because of the situation that they are facing. So I believe there are other ways that we can help the situation rather than make it worse. If it's something we can do, I am here to help.
I'm pretty sure all the people in here that wants to help are going to be there. There are places in Lawrence that can be utilized for sheltering people and those
places can be manageable and those places could be sustainable. >> Thank you, Mr. Diaz. >> Thank you. >> Next speaker, please. Good evening members of the council.
Bill Collins, one plat court. Um, first of all, I salute these people that are bearing their souls and telling you real stories from the street. And I salute them even more because this whole procedure of having this public hearing
was flawed. I think it's been almost two months now since the original public notice was given and people showed up that night, but because the police chief wasn't there, I guess the world revolves around the chief. I'm not saying that in a negative
way, but because one person wasn't there, all these people were put out and had to come back time and time again. And I think two months later, we're finally having the public hearing. You know, there's a word called delegate. If you can't be there, just delegate.
Getting back to this ordinance, first of all, with all the resources in the city and in the police department, why isn't there a proper PowerPoint illustration of this law that even a lawyer couldn't comprehend the city clerk reading it for
about five minutes? How are we supposed to digest that and analyze it and understand it without the graphics that any other city in town would provide to their citizenry during a public hearing? I've pointed this out time and time
again. It's a culture in this city to delay, deny, wait until we die. That's how you treat the citizens. Moving on. The police, to their credit, cannot
enforce this ordinance. They're short of manpower. The chief will give you the numbers. Even though he's politically appointed, I'm sure he'll tell you that they're at least a dozen to two dozen officers below their staffing levels. They don't have time for this.
and and more importantly, this will be yet another ordinance that's uninforcable. And very briefly, and before I go there, I want to say first of all, it's it's patently unfair to tell people they have a time limit when there is no time limit
on a public hearing speaker. There is a time limit for the two and a half minutes a person has at public participation. But on a an issue like this, it's very it's patently unfair to limit people and tell them they could only speak for a
couple of minutes. You have to make the time, especially because they've been denied time and time again their opportunity to speak on this. So, um, other ordinances that are not enforced in Lawrence, and we could probably think of dozens of them, but
two that affect me personally are the veterans office in the city of Lawrence, which is ordinance to have three members, a director and assistant director, and a deputy director. We have begged the mayor and it is on the council agenda to fill those
positions. They are not filled. An ordinance broken. I don't know what that bell means because I'm nowhere near done. >> Um, the Elder Service Board in the city of Lawrence. >> Mr. Collins. >> Madam Vice President, what I'll do due respect, I will not leave this podium
until I'm done. And I'll be as brief as I can be. Another ordinance that is not um enforced is the Elder Service Board. I >> It's a state law, >> Mass General law to have >> before I implemented the the three minute if that was okay and I and I got
the green. >> I'm not done, Madam Vice President. This is a public hearing. I'm almost done. >> So, I'm hearing the veterans affair. Does this have to do I know >> it's an ordinance that's not enforced and it's broken just like this ordinance will be uninforcable. I'm pointing out
the fallacy of making ordinances in this council and then never having the intention of enforcing them. There's no elder service board. There hasn't been for nine years. The millions of dollars that come before you, like tonight, there was a huge grant. The elder
service board is supposed to direct where that money goes. Not one politically appointed director. So, that's another example of an ordinance failure in the city of arts. And lastly, and I'll make this point, and I'll be finished, the no camping
ordinance would reward the unhoused and give them more rights, more services, and more benefits because remember, they have the right to ask for a room than the elders or the veterans in the city of Lawrence. the unhoused would be on a higher strata and have
more benefits, services and u rewards than the elders of the veterans. >> Thank you. Your two points were duly um taken. Can we have the next uh speaker please? >> Name and address for the record. Hi, my
name is Kimberly Jane and I live in South Lawrence. I'd like to keep it at that for privacy if that's okay. Um, I work with unhoused people and people who use drugs in the Boston area. Um, although I live in Lawrence and I
have witnessed the violence of so-called sweeps. I don't like to call them sweeps. I find it very dehumanizing. Um, but they bring out excavators and they bring out other construction equipment and demolish people's belongings, not
just their tents. Um, if you've ever lost your wallet, it's annoying, right? People lose everything that they have. Um, which makes it increasingly difficulty difficult to get harm reduction services, to get health
services, to get housing. Um, sorry, a little nervous. But even when you don't see the violence of a sweep like on Mass Bass and Cass, even when it's so-called community policing, or when it's like someone
going tentto and offering services, those services do not always exist. They will say, "We have emergency shelter for you. You just call this number." And the number rings for days. um
people will not have the emergency shelter that they're being promised in this ordinance. Um because as uh Kelly mentioned, there are only what 50 or 60 beds. Where are those emergency shelters
going to come from? And if you have them now, why aren't you offering them to the people who are currently sleeping in 20°ree weather? There are people sleeping outside right now and their only shelter and their only protection from the elements, their only chance of
privacy is a tent. And you want to take that away from them too in exchange for emergency shelter, which could be anything from um a congregate setting to a gym floor. Like I guess it's not it's not talked about what
that's going to be, what it's going to look like. Will families be cared for, couples, pets? Um, there are a lot of people who are not served by the shelter system in Lawrence or elsewhere. There's a lot of reasons that people end up on the streets and maybe you all don't think
about that very much. I mean, just tonight you prioritized the taxes of homeowners over having this hearing for our most vulnerable residents. Um, I don't mean to digress and I know my time is up. Um, but I hope that you will
think about where these funds could go towards harm reduction, health services, supportive housing, long-term shelter, and other things that are actually supportive for our unhoused community. And remember that they are Lorenians, too. And a lot of us care very much for them. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Kimberly. Next speaker, please. Uh, good evening again, council. It's Rich Russell, 34 Cross Street. With no disrespect to the two law enforcement individuals, you got a tough job to do. Uh, first of all, has anybody publicly
defined what public spaces are? Is that strictly an ordinance that's going to be for the city of Lawrence? Are you going to be able to go out and bag people that are camping on mass highway property around the the uh on-ramps and the
highway there? There's a difference there. You know, are you going to be able to go get them? Uh I I understand that you need that this problem needs to be resolved, but you don't resolve the problem by eliminating it without having
an alternative solution for these people. We have we have a we have a a unused library building on Parker Street that's been vacant for what 10 15 years almost. Why isn't that being thrown out
uh being used for uh shelter for these people? I mean, I I ask questions. Uh I'm going to I'm going to say something. There's two people up there that remember me when the sanctuary
uh city thing came up. I held a set of handcuffs up and I said, "This is going to handcuff the police department." The the issue is this forcing all of these homeless people to Lawrence was pushed on us by a lot of
clergy from the outside communities. Uh the Boxfords, the Georgetowns, the Newberries, uh the Miramaxs. They didn't want to deal with them. We got stuck with them. Now, is anybody coming to help us resolve this problem? Or is this
just something we're going to have to sit around and say, "Well, let's try this. Let's try that. Let's try something that works for a change. We got money that is being wasted by this city. Uh $4,000 wooden chairs. That'd be
nice if you could uh maybe break it up and give them some firewood to stay warm in the winter time when they weren't park uh camping on uh public uh spaces. But again, uh, don't eliminate don't eliminate this as
a problem when you have no alternative solutions for it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor Russell. Yep. Next speaker, please. >> Afternoon. My name's Jose. I live in 13 Knox Street, Lawrence, Massachusetts. Um, I'm
just I just came by and uh I really didn't want to come up here, but something was catching my attention that I know um um today I work in a recovery center in New Beginnings recovery center is in 487 Laurens Street. I mean in
Esser Street. I worked there four years. I was volunteered for four. Um I got clean of addiction eight years and a half. I was homeless two 2017. the bus stop. I had a little room there. I had a
bench. It was cold as a rock, five below zero. But guess what? Somebody saw something in me by throwing me in jail. I was just going to come out and do the same old thing because I wasn't going to get a job. Somebody saw something in me and they said, "You don't need a PhD,
Jose. You got it already. You got the streets, you know, and you could go out there and help people." By throwing me in jail wasn't just going to help. So, you know, wasting money a day in jail. I think it cost now more than before.
Before it was, I think 150 a day plus food and all that other stuff. You spend money in jail, son. You could really spend on doing housing. I remember I was in a shelter in Daybreak 2017. They went up there with a show. Yeah. We going to
expand all this the train tracks. We're going to make it bigger for the homeless, for people. Did it ever happen? No. I work in a recovery center. I got people on weekends coming over there crying to me that they need a shelter. They need somewhere. I call the
shelter. No beds. Do I call Lazarus house? No. You got to be clean. If you smoke weed, if you do this, you know, I was a person that shot drugs, smoke crack. I was a dirt. I I know how it is to eat out the trash. But
here I am today, a family man, a very responsible person today. But people used to reject me. I didn't work with police. But today I do. But before it was a code. I didn't work with them because that's why homeless people think
because they so be rejected so many times from other police. Not that all of them is the same cuz I got family that work for authority also. And I know they family people just like I am. But at the end of the day, do you think throwing
them in jail is going to help? They going to let them out. They going to come out in jail. There's drugs. You know what I'm saying? I did many times. I'm just here to tell you a story that Yeah. You know, somebody saw something in me.
So, you know, I'm just going to kick it off like that and just bring it in on the table, man. You know, it's possible that there's people out there that they could get this help. You understand? I'm 60 years old. Yeah. I don't look it, but that's my age. Thank you. Thank you,
Jose. Thank you for sharing your story with us and for giving back as well. And next speaker, please. Good evening, members of the city council, city staff, and community members. Thank you for giving us all the
opportunity of >> my address for the record >> before you. My name is Anna Javier, and my address is 250 Marramax Street in Lawrence. As we can see, we I'm I'm actually here to speak in behalf of this of this
ordinance. Um, as you can see, we care deeply about the safety, the dignity, and the well-being of our community, both our house neighbors and our non-house neighbors. Lawrence is a strong and compassionate city. And that's why this conversation is
happening here. I want to start by recognizing something important that homelessness is not a crime. The people out there, like many of others have said before, they're trying to survive. And every person living
outdoors is someone's loved one, someone facing challenges that many of us do not see. As you can um see with Jose's testimony, I I've been doing the work as volunteer.
I have a my own nonprofit that I started, Time for Change Ministry, where we started working with people that are struggling with addiction, mental health, and they sit in circles with me. I hear
their stories. There was a bunch of people here that were here and they had to leave. Unfortunately, it got a little late and they had to leave. A lot of the people that were struggling with um homelessness that are now doing better for themselves. They were ready to
speak. Some of them like I said unfortunately they were not able to express themsel but a lot of the words that I had have already been repeated and I understand I agree that we do have a problem. We have something that we
need to solve but we do not have the answer. I don't see the answer. I know Boston, Brockton, Fall River, Lowel, they have passed this ordinance and I think we're trying to piggy back off of them, but I've been having conversations with some of the people in these
different cities. And I asked them, so did you get rid of homelessness? And none of them can say that they did. This was not their answer, you know, their um solution. They got to arrest some people, yes, but they had to go back to
the streets because this becomes a revolving door. So, we're just going around in circles trying to find solutions in the wrong places. I just want to ask this council to think about what the public has said.
Think about what our residents have said tonight because this is not about ignoring the challenges that we have. It's about addressing them with a compassion and effectiveness. The decision decision made here to make made here tonight will shape what kind of community we really
are, whether we respond with punishment or with humanity. Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Anna. Do we have another speaker who would like to make a statement on this item? Seeing none, the public hearing is now
closed. Counselors, um before we we go into any motion, I would like to give the opportunity to uh we have the police chief here and also Lieutenant Fleming here. Uh we heard a lot from many concerned uh residents and constituents
and neighbors, those who live um in our neighboring communities. And um I I want to give the council a a few minutes to marinate that and also hear um our
uh Lawrence police representatives so that then we can discuss uh this matter, make a decision. Chief, >> good evening everyone. Uh Maurice Sagular 90 L Street Chief of Police
Lawrence. Um I um first and foremost I recognize that this is you know a hotly debated topic. Uh this is something that affects us all nationally. Um and it's a more of a social economic problem than anything else. But from what I've heard
here today, I can I can offer you just a few uh very brief um suggestions if I will. For every person that stood up here today speaking against the ordinance, I get over 100 calls from our citizens that they want something done
about the issue. I think that there's a misunderstanding and um as as someone here alluded to uh madame clerk reading five pages of it and since I drafted this document is nothing more than evidence of how much due process I baked
into that if you really take the time to listen to it and to look at it there are so many steps before an actual arrest is made that you are basically are going to get only to the people who absolutely refuse all other options.
We use the the term homelessness. It's very vague and it evokes emotion. It evokes empathy. I get that. But let's look at what it is because nobody seems to define it. There are three types of homelessness that occur and have been uh
you know uh have been identified. The number one is situational homelessness. Somebody loses a job. There's a family emergency. Something happened. bad luck, if you will, bad times. We fell upon someone and they're out there on the streets. That's situational.
We have done outreach efforts on those people and by and large we can get them back on their feet. The second is associated with substance abuse, mental health issues. Those also are more amable. We we do more outreach than anybody anywhere with
regards to that. and Lieutenant Fleming can speak to you about some of the things that um that he does that the Lawrence Police Department does in so far as outreach is concerned. Nobody does more than we do. So, the mere inference that there somehow we're being apathetic to the people who need us most
is just wrong. It's just misinformation. And then you have the third and those we can't reach. It's a choice of life's homelessness. They're homeless because they want to be. Okay? They choose to be. They choose the drugs. They choose the crime. They
choose the lifestyle. There is no outreach in the world that's going to help them. We've tried a million times. We have documented efforts over and over and over again. Now, this ordinance doesn't suggest for a second that um you know, we're going
to go out there, you know, and military vehicles and start locking up everybody. That's not the case at all. We want to give them the opportunity to move along. We want to give them the opportunity for housing. They want help. We're giving them help. But at some
point, we must recognize these vagrants for what they are. And those are the ones that choose this lifestyle. Okay? They're invading our public spaces. They're invading our private spaces.
Doing nothing is not an option. You hear a lot of things against this movement, but you do not hear a single solution to the alternative. How did we get here? Lawrence became the dumping ground of surrounding
communities for many, many years from all other communities. They dumped them here. And because we were empathetic to them, we kept them here. Our last tally about a year ago had us at approximately 85% of the people that
are out there choosing to be vagrants, not even from this community. They're from other communities. And when I say from this community, the other 15% remaining 15% is from the the valley itself.
Only a handful of over 300 and growing of these vagrants is actually Lawrence residents. Now I understand that this I understand the situation here, okay? But
>> excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Um, Officer Garcia, please. Thank you. So, again, we could sit here looking at it from this emotional standpoint
about human beings. Emotional standpoint. This isn't right. Have these outbursts. But we also have a responsibility to the rest of our citizens, the rest of our community, the standard of living. Our children should be able to go to the parks and play without stepping on human
feces without picking up a needle. Our people should be able to walk on our pathways, jog on our pathways without having to be worried about being raped, about being robbed. And the very same people that uh are out there as homeless in these encampments
are subject to rape, human trafficking, violence, >> excuse me, drug abuse. Um, can I have a motion to pass 10 p.m.? >> So move. >> Motion has been made by Council Marl, seconded by Councelor Levy. Discussion see none. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Go
ahead, Chief. >> Thank you. So I say again, doing nothing is not an option. Our community is thriving. Our community is growing. We also deserve the same standard of living that the surrounding communities like Andover, North Andover,
Georgetown, and all these other communities enjoy. And right now, all this is, this ordinance, all it does is it gives us one more tool in our tool belt. Arrest is the last option.
At no point in time are we suggesting that we are going to arrest our way out of this pro problem. It's not going to happen that way. At no point in time am I proposing here to solve the social economic ills of society and of this nation.
All I'm saying to you is that just as we have a balanced outreach to help those who want help, we need to also have that balance for those who don't want to who choose to bring this thing to our community. My responsibility is to this community,
all members of this community, to bring safety and security and to do the very best I can to use all our resources to increase our standard of living. Now, you've heard here that the communities that have enacted these the these encampments, well, it didn't work. It didn't work. Where are the
statistics? It's a tool. It is not the end all beall. We just need to be able to go to an encampment site. Like I'll give you the example, the $35 million uh rail trail. Do you know the resources that we had to spend there to clean that up and to keep
cleaning it up just so that this can be a reality in our community? The resources that the Lawrence Police Department spends day in and day out addressing these issues, the calls for service that we get, we don't need this. We need to do
something. I am offering a concrete solution or at the very least an option. If someone has the humane solution, great, bring it forth. But it's not within the purview of the Lawrence Police Department to solve all social
ills. The purview here is to provide you with security, okay? And a better standard of living. And this is what this proposes. And so I am welcome or I welcome anyone here who wants more information on it. They can come to the station. They want to learn more about what Lieutenant
Fleming is doing for outreach. You hear about veterans. We go out and we reach out. We reached one veteran that we found and he was provided services required. We're not trampling over veterans. Okay? Let's talk facts. Forget emotions.
Facts. And until you bring me documented facts, to the contrary, I'm telling you, we don't want to be the last community without an an anti-amping ordinance. We just don't want to be. We're not trying to punish anybody for being homeless.
That's a status. What we're doing is we're regulating conduct. And the Supreme Court has decided in Grants Pass uh versus Johnson that the communities all have the right to do that, lawful right to do so.
So I submit to you, let's get beyond the emotions. Let's look at it objectively and and let's give it a shot because doing nothing is not an option. Nothing will change. And that's uh all I have to say as unless you have any other questions. Um
but Lieutenant Fleming is here and he will tell you about the outreach efforts that we do day in day out. We've been doing this for years and we've had a lot of success with those that want help and those that don't create a problem for us and so we need to address it.
>> Thank you, Chief. I'm going to look at my colleagues at this point. Um if I want to know if my colleagues would like to proceed with hearing from Lieutenant Fleming. I know Lieutenant Fleming from the sessions that we've had with you during public meetings um you're more of
the stats you have answers to questions. So that's why I also want to ask my colleagues if there are questions at this point uh this is also a great time to ask those questions because it's usually Lieutenant Fleming who answers them. Councelor Llam,
>> thank you very much and and appreciate the testimonies by those who participate in the public hearing and I also appreciate the vigor and passion of the the chief and the proposal that he's trying to get to um trying to move the the needle so to speak and try to
improve our city. Um Lieutenant Fleming, um this proposal is uh modeled at I think but tailored to Lawrence but it's modeled after other communities. Uh what I would like to know is and people have talked about it uh during the public
hearing portion. Um how is it working in other communities? Has anybody from these other communities have because they thought that it wasn't working did they repeal this proposal or this this ordinance that they have in neighboring communities? I'm just curious. I I we
thank goodness other communities are doing this. Now we can actually see what they've done and we can now say is this what we want in our city. So tell me a little bit about the other communities. >> Well, can't really say whether they work in other communities, but I can tell you what we're doing here in Lawrence. And the way we address the homeless laws is
vastly different what than we've ever done in the past. We recognize that homelessness isn't a crime. We recognize that anyone that's homeless in the city probably has deal mental health issues, probably has an addiction problem. As long with dealing with just the outright fact of being homeless in Los is a diff
difficult lifestyle. We as a police department are very very compassionate of that. So we go out there every single day. We offer them services. We literally give them blankets and jackets and and and try to counsel them into whatever they they need. We talk to detox. We try to navigate the homeless
um shelter system with them. We do all that, but at some points what everyone that spoke today is very passionate and I appreciate their advocating for these this this portion of the community. What you're not seeing is what do we say to the to the uh the principal of the of the charter school on West Street when
he says, "Hey, there's tents out behind my schoolyard. What do I say to the person in the daycare center saying, "Hey, I'm by the I'm by Pemman Park. There are people, you know, doing what people do in in the tents, including drugs and other nefarious things." What do I say to the boys club when I say, "Hey, there's 30 tents outside the the
gym area. You know, what can you do about that?" So, as much as I advocate for the homelessness in the city, as much as I go out there, we do outreach, we try to connect them with services, when we do have to do enforcement, we don't just blindly send them to the courts anymore. I have a contact at the uh at the probation department. I call
them and say, "Hey, we just had to arrest someone for, you know, a low-level drug offense. They happen to be homeless. Can you try to get them services?" So, as a police department, we're trying to leverage all our different uh resources. We meet every single week with over 37 community partners. We identify the most the most
at risk. We as a police department know that we have to step back in many cases say hey this isn't a police matter and we do that quite frequently but at the end of the day there are some days where we have to do enforcement. We can't put no trespasses sign in every stretch of the of the city to give us the legal
right to arrest someone. So in those situations we're at a loss like how do I legally get someone moved here if I don't have uh the resources to do that. So like Chief Agula said, this is just one more tool in our tool belt that we use, you know, very judiciously and not,
you know, you know, heartlessly go out there and start arresting people. It just given the the the proper authority to do that. And I'll give you one kind of anecdotal situ down by Jackson Street, very public park, and one of the homeless people
built a a a platform in the river. So we went down there. We we talked to her days beforehand that we got we were coming down there. We usually get them two, three weeks to get them some removed. She chose to kind of hide and leave the bridge on this platform. We had to call the fire department. I'm begging her to come out of there that we're going to get her out. And she
says, "I'm not coming out." I said, "Well, you know, I don't want to arrest you, but I'm going to have to." She asked me, "What are you going to arrest me for?" I said, "Trustpassing." She goes, "I'm on the water. You can't trespass me on the water." I looked at my part. I think she's right. I don't think I have the legal right to trespass her. Fortunately, we were able to talk
her out of there and get some services. But this is a very complicated, very emotional, very difficult problem. And we look at it holistically. We're not looking at it like they just commit criminals. We're going to arrest them. But, you know, you give me the answer. What do I say to the person who runs a daycare or the charter school? It it's
we're we're there two different views on how to handle homeless. One is the police should be more compassionate and understand their their difficulties. And the other point of view is you should be holding them accountable and be uh and do more enforcement. But both those groups are calling the police looking at us for our solutions. So this no
technical ordinance will be just one more I know you know arrow in our quiver for us to use when we're dealing these people. But thank you. >> Thank you. Any other counselors have a comment or question? >> Um thank you madam chair. Uh Ben,
I also as my colleague mentioned, I appreciate uh all the residents uh that um participated in in the public hearing. But as a counselor of district B, I have
to agree with um the police officers. Um I get a lot of complaints from people that own their cares. uh from the churches that are in district B. Um
and neighbors, they have the concerns that we just heard. Um, and I know they not may be a perfect solution for this, but we are facing an
issue, especially in district B, especially areas around the river, the areas around the uh solo fields um and the schools. It it I mean I also need an answer. I
also need to give an answer to my constituents when they call complaining about homeless own house. Apologies um around the neighborhood. So we may not have the perfect solution
for this but we need to figure out something. And what I have in front of me have different steps. It looks like there's going to be an engagement um with um nonprofits already serving.
It looks like that the last auction will be um enforcing uh uh jail. It will be that. So if we can figure out a way of the police
department and the local agencies that work diligent diligent with this population, I think this is doable cuz and I'm going to mention this again. I don't have an answer for my constituents
when they call complaining. Even on Sunday when people go to church, we get calls because they are doing um they basically living around some of the local churches in district B,
especially the ones near the river. So I don't have an answer for them. So we have in front of us an opportunity um not to resolve this issue but maybe to
um find not a permanent solution but let's see if this could work. It's my understanding that they going to go for they going to go
they going to offer services first and the last solution will be um what the ordinance states. Thank you madam chair. >> Thank you councelor. Any questions or councelor Reyes?
>> Uh through you vice chair. Uh following the conversation with councelor Luzon uh we receive a lot of phone call uh especially from district uh they have concern about it but at the same time I
think we need to uh working with our community to see what is the more better protocol to follow and also to to see what is the more better legal opinion about this uh ordinance. uh because at
the same time we received a lot of complaint a lot of concern about especially with the um a small business under a family shark care because we care our children and we don't want to
have this situation around our business because we working with early childh who uh education but at the same times I think uh we need to to figure out what is the next step before we can take some
action about this ordinance. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, councelor. >> Any other comments or questions? >> Madam Chair, can we Yes. >> Let me um one second. I see councelor Levy hasn't spoken yet. Councelor Levy. >> Uh yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Through
you, uh I have a question to Mr. Fleming to the office. Yeah. >> Yes, Council. >> Thank you. And What do you do you do when you find that somebody uh
in here is not belong to the city? >> Sorry that question. >> A good question. >> What do you do when you find that somebody is not belong to this city? >> We we try to identify everyone but
there's it's very difficult to say you're not from the city especially if you're homeless. If you come here from other community and you you've been here for two or three weeks, by virtue of be your body being in Lawrence, you're from Lawrence. We have no legal authority to take them against the will and bring them back to where they came from. So,
it's it's it's difficult. We we identify them. A lot of times we'll we'll call the the uh the other communities that if someone has an overdose situation, Lawrence, we call the the other police department, the Senate Police Department, and say, "Hey, this person's a resident in your town. He they have a problem." So, we try to connect them
services from their own community. Um but at the end of the day if they choose to be here because we offer you know two different uh soup kitchens because we offer a mad don't because we offer the uh you know the house of mercy we date that there's a lot of incentive for people to be here. It's a difficult
problem. You want we want to be compassionate. We don't services but again we're you know we have the behavioral health unit in the police department and we address it in a very non-traditional police manner. Um, when I work my day-to-day shift, I'm in, you know, I'm in t-shirts and sweatshirts
and I and we we we try to connect with these with these people on a personal level um that Detective Monte Carabo is is knows these people on on a firstname basis. We know who they are. We know what they're what they're struggling with and we're very um you know,
responsive to that. But at the end of the day, we're an enforcement wing of the government. If there's if there's someone another person calls us says, "Hey, you know, I live on West Street and there's four tents right behind my my fence and my kids can't play in the yard because of what they're doing there. We have to do something." So, this would just give us the ability to
do something legally. Right now, we're already doing this. We're already we we identify certain situations where we're not going to tolerate homelessness. The real trill being one of them. I worked with uh council at the at the boys club. We said this is just we're not going to tolerate here. And I think you can they
saw the work. We went in there and said, "You can't be here. You know, here's a service we can offer you, but you can't be here." And we're in a tough spot, too, cuz I can't tell them where to be, but we can establish where they where they absolutely cannot be. And it's it's difficult when you you're camping up right behind here, the South School by
the riverbank. There's no no trespassing signs there. I never gave them the notice. Do I have the legal authority to arrest them or or displace them? I I don't know that answer. But if there was a no tenting policy, I could look them in the face and say, "Hey, you can't tent here because it's against the no tented policy." And we do it in such a
way that we're encouraging them to self self- relocate. We're we've done very very very little enforcement. They're dismantling over seven major homeless encampments in the city. The all behind Mercy, all behind the boys club, all behind Do Street, the whole rail trail west street. We displace that entire
place without one use of enforcement. So, we'd be very judicial about how we use the notetic policy. We understand that these people deal with mental health crisises and and substance use issues and we understand that. We know arresting them and punishing them isn't going to do any good for the overall
problem. But at the end of the day, when we have a person who's just absolutely resistant, we need to have the legal authority to be able to legally and respectfully move them along. But when you find that somebody is from let's say from Andov or you call the
city to just to let it know that do I cooperate with you guys and say so when we we think they have a you know an issue that the city can help out with but I'll be brutally honest if I called another community said hey we have one of your one of your residents here that's homeless living in Lawrence will
you come get them they're going to say no it's your problem now that's just the reality of it and I I know everyone's like you Like the chief said, everyone's very emotional about this, but we're working in reality. The reality is they're here and we need to be find a way to to to to
balance have a balanced response to the homelessness. So, we're respectful of the business owners and the people that live here in housing and in housing and I think we're doing a pretty good job of it and this would just give us one more tool to help us out with that. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Uh if I may, we have the chief I want to ask them your questions. >> Uh thank you. Can you walk us through the step by step, you know, not to read the entire ordinance, but what will
happen if a police encounter a uh a on house? So again, I I want to I want to reiterate the fact that when I drafted this, I I put in and deliberately did so
many many many what's called due process clauses in there. >> And that means there the these individuals are afforded a ton of opportunities. We're going to give them notice. Then we're going to come back and say, "Hey, you didn't leave within a certain notice, you know, and we're going to do everything that we can. What
do you need? What services do you the same thing that we're doing now. We are going to approach them in a very humane way. We're going to continue to do what we're doing, but again, them saying no is not an option. Um, you know, especially when they're in public places and and private property. So, um, the
steps are going to be very simple. There's going to be plenty of notice to be given to them. There's going to be alternatives. Um, hey, listen, you know, if if you need services, this is what we have. This is what's available. Uh, we do this constantly. We do that with partnerships also with with you know various other organizations. And then at
some point and this is where the rubber meets the road. At some point um when they have refused all of these opportunities when they have refused all of this assistance when they just refuse then at that point the very last step is
an arrest. Hey look I don't want my officers making arrests either of you know of these individuals for many many reasons. Um but again doing nothing I is not an option and and like the lieutenant said these external communities they don't want them they want them here with us and so we have to
do something doing nothing again is not an option. So at what point will the agencies are here and my understanding is that they work uh closely with the police department at what point
they're going to get involved cuz I I understand and I'm pro this ordinance. I I do know that certain things are not clear. Um and that's why we have so many um uh
public particip uh when we have so many people participating. Um but um at what point in this process we're going to have them involved, the agencies that are familiar and that work
directly with this um group of residents >> daily and we have been doing it for some time. We're working very closely with uh a lot of the community stakeholders, a lot of nonprofit organizations. Um we share information with them constantly. This is constantly going on. Again, the
the the the ordinance in and of itself is only going to affect individuals that completely refuse and reject any and all efforts that we have been making, continue to make um in order to uh you know uh to to give them the help or andor to move them along. Um those
agencies will know long before any arrests are made who these individuals are and they're known to us. So, you know, we kind of anticipate which way that's going to be going, but we work with them every single day. Madam, >> um thank you. But I maybe I'm not making
my point clear, but it if we get a more detailed um plan, outreach plan um cuz what you're saying is that and and
once again, I'm pro an ordinance like this one because it's affecting district B left and right. Um but I but we also want something that is compassionate and that is fair. Um
if we can add I don't know if it's possible now or later a an outreach plan with more details. Um, is the police officer is going to go by themsel? Is the police officers going
to make a call to one of this uh agencies that are more familiar with the population that you're trying to serve? But it looks like the the last the last um auction um it will be left up to the police
department but the others because will should be with with the agency that are familiar with this population. So my question is, are you going to have
a member a a someone from this uh agencies go with the police officer? Is that a possibility? >> Yes, and we've been doing that. Uh Madame counselor, I I just want to reiterate um I founded the behavioral
health unit years ago in in in recognition of the people who needed this particular outreach. um you know and Lieutenant Fleming has done an amazing job in and really making it work. But I founded those I founded the the outreach uh for these individuals and we work with the community partners
and we go out with them many times um you know as as a group um you know so I guess that the answer is yes. We do that now. we go out with them as you know and do the outreach and I think that all we have to do now is do a little bit better of a job of memorializing
um for example individual A we were there on October 17th October 18th October 21st and I think that that's part and parcel of the ordinance and it's going to strengthen the ordinance there and at the very least um the authority of arrest should it become necessary but at this point I think it's
best because now you start to really get a picture of what we mean when we have been doing outreach for years and we have a group of individuals that will not accept anything. And so this is why we are here today. This wasn't my first option. I've been working and trying to
resolve this issue in a humanitarian way for several years now. But I also recognize the need for our community uh to live like other communities do because we certainly uh we don't own this problem permanently. We have to do something. >> Uh and no, and thank you for reminding
us that you founded those uh initiatives. Uh, apologies for not mentioning Ben. Uh, we appreciate that. But, um, I think the concern here, uh, is we want
this to work. I want as a counselor for this to work, especially in district B. Uh and for the people that are watching and they're not familiar, we district B uh the common the park
um companion campon park. I have to say the right name. Um the companion uh is part of district B and the downtown and some of the um broad part of Broadway and Lawrence.
Um and we want my concern is the only concern that I have is uh to have a dual um a program that works with
the agencies are doing that work right now. We don't want to left them out because they're doing their job. So, but thank you for mentioning that and I think um I think this is a possibility for my colleagues. I think what we have
in front of us is a tool. It may not have all the answers but I think it's going to give us is giving us a map to find uh a solution at some point. We may not have it now but at least we have
something in front of us to work with. we have an issue and not only industri I think maybe it's in another I don't know about m but well thank you thank you councel
>> thank you madame chair uh but we have an issue district B has an issue with homelessness uh uh councelor re just mentioned it councelor levy is also aware uh as councelor at large but we need to find what we have in front of us
is a tool, a map and it will take us to the right direction and we need to acknowledge and um and appreciate the work that all the agencies are doing and the people that care, the churches, the faith community, they care, the faith
community cares, but they also are complaining especially on Sundays >> about this population. Thank you. >> Thank you, counselor. Um I saw um counselor L plant first and um
>> so here's the quote that should it frustrates me and it may frustrate anger you as well. Lieutenant Fleming said when he called some other community, "That's your problem."
City of Lawrence, that's your problem, not ours. Striking. We do have a homeless. We do have an unhoused problem in our city. Get it. But if we're not working together,
if we're just doing this on our own, we're not going to solve this issue. We're not even we're never by the way, let's just admit it. This is the solutions will never be solved. We've had this since the beginning of time, and we're not going to solve this issue. Now, we can try to reduce it. Sure. We
can try to to make some improvements 100%. We're not going to solve it. Let's not be fooling ourselves. If this problem was solvable, we wouldn't be having it today. So, it's, you know, anyway. So, I just want that to echo
because that just speaks volumes about what we're trying to do here in our city. And when we look around, when we have all the social programs that we do, we are a victim of our own success. We have tremendous organizations that do
tremendous things. And those other communities probably not. And they're probably pretty happy about it because they don't have that problem. We do. And now we have a public hearing
where we have to solve the problem. I applaud you, Chief Aguilar, Lieutenant Fleming, for trying to be humane, trying to find a way to approach this, understanding that we're not going to solve it, but given the tools that we
have, try to make progress and understanding these are people as well and these are not just cattle. These are not animals. These are human beings that are now in our community and we're going to do the best that we can but if we don't get the help from others
come on. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor >> follow the conversation. I want to know how many organization is involved in this kind of project if what is the capacity they have when you refer uh
homeless or depend what is the situation or they need uh how many organization is involved working with you guys. So when you talk about homeless, you're talking about many lays of problems. It's addiction, it's homelessness, it's
psychologic problems. So what we do is we meet every Tuesday uh at the at the virtual hub meeting with 37 different community partners. They range from mental health support to detox centers. Um so that's that's one of the things we do. I work closely with um Wal from community um development
that we she helps us do the outreach to the community. I work closely with the homeless coordinator. we bring them into the camps. So what we do is we identify the people that have at most at risk and then again the police step back and just kind of communicate that to our community partners and then say what say you what do you need from us and mostly
we give them it's it's a flow of communication and then if they want us to do we'll go into the encampments with them to uh give them support. A lot of times they don't want us doing the outreach with them. We still trying to fight that stigma that the police are bad. We're here just enforcement but we've changed the opinions of many of
these different agencies. They were weren't even communicating back with us because of the fear would use that information for enforcement. We now have an open flow of communication without fear. So we have the hospitals calling us. We have detox centers calling us. We have great laws family health center calling us and we share information back
and forth and come up every week weekly not monthly not quarterly and say all right we've identified these people. They're most at risk. What do we do with them? And never do we say let's go arrest them. That's never that's never even a topic. you know at you know sometimes we do section 35s which is
equivalent to an arrest sometimes we do section 12s and we'll facilitate that that but never during those discussions we say all right let's go arrest someone referred to a sweep the sweep that in years past we used to do those sweeps we'd go out there and we arrest every single homeless person we have for whatever crime they committed whether it
was trespassing or warrants whatever whatever it was that was our technique 10 years ago we did a sweep last summer and a postal wrestling we got them voluntarily come to a certain where we had detox centers there. We had homeless coordinators there. We had showers and lunch and food. And again,
that wasn't to fix the homeless uh crisis. It was to build a sort of trust between the police department and governmental agencies. So, they'll then at some point take take our assistance. We we the way you increase the success rate is to double your failure rate. So, we go off these services and they say no
to us a 100th time, but that 100 first time they take our services, it we have success stories. And this is just this is not going to be used to to to beat the model out of homelessness. It's just used in a very selective fashion when we have no other option.
>> Thank you. Council Marmal, is there something different that you're you would like to add to the conversation? Council Mar >> through you, Vice President. Um, what I wanted to add was because of being the counselor of district D, um, I have done
some sitewalks with Lieutenant Fleming and at the time I Kelly was the I believe the director. So, I've lived it. I as a counselor, I wanted to understand, I wanted to help, I wanted to figure out what is it that I could do
um, at a local level given the position that I'm in. um what are the decisions and and proposals and and initiatives that I could bring to the table um and I've firsthand have seen when we are offering them uh shelter and they are
saying no um where we're trying to offer them help and they're saying no despite you know it's a such a contentious topic and conversation and despite how we're going to decide today it feels like it's not a win-win situation um But I I live
on Water Street. I live in it. They come to my backyard, my driveway to fill up their gallons, their their jugs of water. They're using our electrical outlets to charge their phones. Uh but I feel helpless as a counselor. I
feel so helpless when just like other counselors here are getting numerous amount of phone calls specifically from the elderly communities um the facilities such as Essex Towers complaining how they're coming into the lobby sleeping there trespassing
um I'm I'm working with Senator Pavo Payano doing murals right on Broadway where Lone USA and I'm getting complaints that they're defecating in those alleyways. Um, I've seen firsthand pictures and videos of just food and
trash and needles are in front of these businesses and alleyways. So, it's like, how do I look uh how do I look to to a mother's face and tell her I I there's nothing I can do or I I just there's
nothing for me to propose um in order to facilitate these challenges. How do I uh look at the elderly community and tell them I I can't do nothing about it? So given those reasons, I I feel compelled
to to try something because I feel like we haven't been able to we have yet to see an initiative come before us um that addresses this topic. Um and despite um despite
how many people feel uh about this ordinance and um the challenges that it's going to face, I feel like uh what the chief said is using it as a tool. It's not the end all beall and it's a way to kind of give us some sort of barometer as to you know if this does
work great and if it doesn't then you know there we'll propose changes to that as well. >> Thank you. I'm going to pass the gavo to the most senior person um on the council right now and it's councelor uh Mark Llant.
Council vice president, you have the floor. >> Thank you, councelor the plant. >> I'm going to be honest. I'm very conflicted on how I'm going to vote on this on this item because I I have the
I have the experience as a counselor and I do have that personal experience as well. So, I'm going to first speak on my uh with my hat as a counselor in District E. We have experienced encampments. Um I've received complaints
about encampments at in in the riverfront park, which Lieutenant Fleming, I don't know if you recall when I sent those photos over to you and the director of um community development. We've also experienced an um an issue
near the Halloween store in that area. We um it may not be as severe in District B um but one of the things that that occurs in District E um the Mount Vernon area is the car breakins.
um that occurs more particularly uh from my understanding um from individuals um during the winter whereas I what I've learned is during the summer is is various groups of of individuals
that that do this. Um I recall calling the chief um I think this was last year. I don't think you were chief yet, but I recall calling the chief um because I found needles in front of family pools. Like
literally right in front of family pools as myself and representative Francisco Paulino were were with the the fire station, the firefighters um doing the the boot um fundraiser that they do every year. I also re have received calls w
concerning activity um within the parking lot of of the Carlen's uh building and also in that alleyway between the commercial building and the residential homes. I've received calls regarding Ro Street
about encampments um uh being set up there. The most severe case that I have witnessed within my own district was this home that literally I I walked over
to where um it it was a duplex. There was a situation um uh where on one side the the parents uh son was not really mentally well and
that side of the home this individual opened it up like a mini shelter for the unhoused individuals. And I got a call from ISD and I showed up and Lieutenant Fleming, you were there. We had to call for backup because
not only was the was was the environment there so severe we literally had to dress up like we had to wear protective gear to even go in there. We found something that that could have exploded the house and we found other weapons in there where that's when Lieutenant
Fleming had to call for backup. These are the things as a counselor these are the phone calls that I get just like my colleagues have stated. I've also um and this was during the time that that the former homelessness coordinator
was with us. I remember asking once about the gentleman that always stands in front of the building where Mr. Tux used to be and I asked why how would we help this individual? He has been there for even since my
teenage years. I'm 31 now. And the response that I got, he always refuses to get help. He likes he likes being unhoused better. Now that is and I think uh and as a counselor I also thank LPD because I
know firsthand being with you there that you do try your best to treat these individuals as humanely as possible. But I also understand the the outburst that we had earlier. And I also understand from what we heard from from public particip public um from the
public hearing that many of these shelters and many of these resources do sell you a dream stating that oh they're going to get they're going to expand their facilities, they're going to get more beds. And then when we're in these situations trying to help these individuals, guess what? five ten years
after we're we're still in in phase one trying to figure out when these expansions are going to happen and we're limited. Our resources are limited. As a counselor and also within my my profession, I've also been I've sat at tables and I've firsthand listened to
other communities state that this is a Lawrence issue where Lawrence should open more more shelters, Lawrence should do this, Lawrence should do that. I've been at I've been at the table when we've requested federal help as well to bring our neighbor our neighboring communities, but they sell also sell us
a dream. And at the end of the day, it's always Lawrence's issue. So, that's a part that I understand as a counselor. Now, putting my personal hat on, we
and I'm gonna we we heard two stories about two individuals that were unhoused or or currently unhoused and what they've been through. And my family has gone through something similar. I remember when I was younger,
my father's, he no longer lives in this country. It's been many years, but my father's oldest brother struggled with addiction. And I remember every Saturday morning driving through Lawrence trying to find my uncle because
he would just disappear and he would live in the streets. I remember going to the bridge where the new rail trail is going to be is going to be built now off of Lowel Street cuz that's usually where where he would where he would sleep.
I remember going into a home on Lowel Street and it's that house is still there. It's it's a white house near near Jack um um Jacqueline's uh chicken looking for my uncle. And luckily one day he was there and we were able to to
to find him um and bring him home. But he was one that refused help from the family no matter how much we tried. It took it took a long time for him to get help. And I also recall when I was young opening the door to Lawrence police at my home. I don't know how they they
found my my address, but I recall my uncle and my and my dad. Um, literally they're Irish twins and they look like legitimate twins. But I I recall when LPD tried to take my dad because they thought he that that they thought he was my uncle and my dad had to bring out all
these documents to prove that he was Horge Infante, that he was the owner of the home and XY and and all of that. So I also understand that part of this issue and it's not an easy like I I was going back and back and forth in my head
to even share this but I think it's important to share these stories too. So I struggle as a counselor when I get these calls and I and it's very frustrating for my constituents to to to experience some
some things but then when I hear the organizations what you guys do I get it. And um I don't think there is a I I don't think there is a solution at least not now because as Chief Aguular mentioned we're here right now because
we have tried we have tried to get federal help. We have tried to meet with with surrounding communities. We have tried everything. So what do we what do we do now? This is not an easy vote because if you vote for it, you're going to have people upset
with you um who are out there um every day helping helping this community. And if you vote against it, then you're going to have your constituents who call you almost every day, weekly, monthly over these issues because we haven't done anything yet.
And I just I I personally as as a counselor right now, I I don't know how I'm going to vote for this item. um due to these reasons. Thank you. >> Thank you. If there's no other counselors that wish to speak on this
matter, I'll ask the clerk. I'll um >> Is there a motion? Is there a motion before us? I'm looking for a motion. Start with that. Is there a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> Motion to approve is made. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by councelor
>> District D. Yes. Any further discussion on this matter? See no further discussion. I'll call the role and I'll call it. All in favor say all in favor say I. >> No. I hear a present. Roll call, please.
>> Sorry. >> Council Levy. >> Yes. >> Council plant. Yes. >> Council Luzon. >> Yes. >> Council Del Rosario is noted as absent. Council Miguel. >> Yes. >> Councelor Marma. >> Yes.
>> Council Reyes. >> Yes. >> Council President is noted as absent. Council Vice President Fonte >> present. >> What is the comment? >> Motion carries. >> Motion carries. Thank you, Councelor L.
That is the end of our not the end but that is the end of our agenda. Um now we have >> table matter councelor Levy. >> Okay. Can we ask the police department just to
make sure that we can that's is something that I I'm asking in front of everyone just to give it a report to us like every four months you know just to let us know about how things going and
if anything has to be changed or anything has to be you know something like that >> consider Considering that we just took the vote, is is that Madame Clerk, is is that um allowed? Is that feasible?
>> Um we could do a motion to reconsider or you can just do it informally with I mean the chief's always been very approachable. >> Um >> you could just ask I think they'll do it for us. >> Chief, can you please provide us updates for this?
>> Sorry. as we >> can you please pro provide the council updates as we um roll out this initiative and and see how it goes. >> Absolutely. I certainly will. >> Thank you. >> All right, counselors, do we have any tabled matters that you would like to
untab? Seeing none. All right, new business. We have item 454-25 appropriation transfer in the amount of 55 537,38267 from retrain retained earnings to
various airport accounts brought to us by um our airport manager Francisco Urana and that's going to the budget and finance committee. Next, next item we have item 455-25,
authorization to expend $256,500 from the Mass Safe Grant Funds brought to us by Charlene Pasal, acting director of community development. Um, we have not. >> You have not. No.
>> Um, can I get a motion? I just realized we have uh Miss Pascal's name here, but her re her acting position expired. I believe it was back in July. And I have sent correspondence, but I would like a formal motion from the council to send
correspondence to the city attorney on an official legal opinion of how to handle um an acting position when it has not been reauthorized by the by the city council yet. I don't know. I've asked for it to come
down. It has not come down. But >> Motion to send correspondence. A >> motion was made by Councilman Mar. Is there a second? Seconded by councelor Levy. Discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I.
>> I. And the eyes have it. Thank you. Okay. So, um, let me repeat this. Item 454 455-25, authorization to expend $256,500 from the Mass Save Grant Funds is going to the budget and finance committee.
Item 456-24. Approval of of the tax increments exemption agreement between two 216 Canal Street LLC and the city of Lawrence was brought to us by Daniel um
Daniel McCarthy. that is going to the housing housing committee. >> Um is a tiff usually a financial? No. Um >> it's not it's not this >> eie. Yeah. I'm a little confused. Budget
>> exemption. So it's tax exemption again financial. Yeah. >> Okay. So going to the budget and finance committee. Um item 457-25, authorization to expend $50,000 for the fiscal year 26 earmark grant towards the handball courts is going to the budget
and finance committee. Item 458-25, request to reszone parcel of real property at 128 Parker Street, map 101, parcel 101-55 from R2 to B1 is going to the housing
committee. Um, item 459-25, handy handicapped parking at 446 Havil Street is going to the ordinance committee. Item 460-25, handic handicap parking at 41 um Jupiter Street is going to the ordinance
committee. Item 461-25, handic handicap parking at 15 Brook Street is going to the ordinance committee. Item 462-25, handicap park parking at 87-89 Springfield Street is going to the
ordinance committee. Item 463-25, handicap parking at 2 Main Street is going to the ordinance committee. And item 464-25, install J pole on Beacon Street near
Andover Street is going to the ordinance committee. >> I didn't catch it. 45825 was the reasonzoning. >> Let's go into the housing. >> Typically those go to ordinance because it's the ordinance if it gets >> okay. So,
um I'm sorry. Uh 4 458-25 will be going to the ordinance committee. All right. Uh councilors committee committee meetings. >> Got a question, Madam Chair. Or well, first of all, we'll have our meeting on Tuesday at 7 o'clock. ordinance Tuesday at 7 p.m. >> Under old business or or what's the
status of having our meetings? >> Oh, >> thank you. >> Okay. Under old business, item 414-25, vote to confirm location future of council meetings. As of from my knowledge, as of right now, I'm under
the impression the city council chamber is not finished. However, it has improved. It has is improved drastically. it there is a there is a high possibility that it will be done before our December 2nd um meeting. However, I
think to be on the safe side, we should make a vote to have the meeting here in case that is not the case. But the only pro that's a great suggestion if um if it is ready, >> you know, are you going to want to
switch it back or no? I mean, it just would be difficult to do that only because we have a lot of ads that need to go in for um legal notices. So, whichever venue you pick, I just I know that they were aiming for that December 2nd date, but to be safe, do you want to
>> Yeah, I just I I just don't know where where we are at right now. And I know currently right now the council chamber is not done yet. So to be on the safe side, I I think we should we should stick to this location until we're 100% sure that the chamber
is finished. >> Can I have a motion? >> Um yes, please. >> I'll make a motion that we adopt the uh confirmation of the next city council meeting on December 2nd. >> Yep. >> Right here, South Lawrence East. >> Motion has been made by council plan, seconded by council Reyes. Discussion on
the location. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. >> Okay. Now, committee assignments. Uh, so we have ordinance at on Tuesday at 7
p.m. Budget and finance. >> We want to do Monday only because Thanksgiving. Uh, council marmalis Thanksgiving week that week >> whatever. You're just scheduling
>> and I think that is it just ordinance and budget. Okay. And the subcommittee meetings will be um held through Zoom as we will not we don't know if we're going to be in the the chamber or not yet. >> Madam Chair, I have a question. our good
friend and a new colleague from district A uh has does he have any >> oh yes >> assignments? Yes, thank you for the reminder. Councelor Miguel, you will be assuming the the roles that the previous
counselor had. So she did serve on the ordinance committee and she also served on the personnel committee. Um I don't and housing. So from now until we we take the oath again, those are your committee
meetings. >> I think she was just on two committees. I think it was just housing and >> personel. Yeah, personnel as well. >> Yep. All right. Can I have a motion to adjurnn?
>> Motion has been made by >> uh councelor Levy, seconded by councelor Luzon. All those in favor say I. Hi. >> Hi. And the eyes have it. Thank you so much, counselors. >> I asked him what I