Too hot. Good evening. Welcome to the Housing and Economic Development Committee. Today is Monday, July 13, and it is approximately 6:07 p.m. Note, this meeting is also being
conducted as a hybrid meeting. You may remotely access this meeting through digital platforms such as our Facebook Lawrence City Council page and our YouTube Lawren City Council page. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022, this meeting of housing committee
and economic development is being conducted both in person and via remote participation. A reminder that persons who would like to listen to and or view this meeting while in progress may either attend in person um at 200 Common Street at our city council chambers
or they uh may either attend in person as I just mentioned or use any of the following access that I have previously mentioned as well which is our Facebook Lawren City Council page and our YouTube Lawren City Council page. Before we commence this meeting, I would like to
stand up uh for the pledge of allegiance and also um recognize uh being that this is the housing committee. Um we've had many fires and um my district in particular has been plagued with uh devastating fires that have displaced a
lot of families. And I think that it's important to recognize that and and hopefully um given the committee um and the members, my colleagues that are uh that are with me here um that we remind ourselves as to what is important and
how we could continue to serve our community uh when it comes to these type of uh types of challenges that our city is facing. Um, so if you could please join me for a pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. I have uh minutes for city council approval. Um, do we want to do it as a
block and voting? Um, uh, madame clerk, please um, let before we commence in, uh, sit the minutes for approval, I do want to, uh, recognize that we have voting members um, to my
left and, um, vice chair of the housing and economic development committee, Franklin Miguel. Councelor Miguel. And to my right, we have our city council president, counselor at large, Javanni Rodriguez. And also to my right, councelor from district F, uh, councelor
Mark Lant. Um, I'm looking for a recommendation for approval on city council minutes. uh January 12th, 2026, February 9th, 2026, January 28th of 2026,
March 11th of 2026, and May 27th of 2026. >> I'll make a a motion to approve uh all those minutes. >> Discussion. >> Discussion. >> I'm sorry, there's a second. Second. >> Okay. >> Discussion. Yeah, something very minor,
but it just kind of wrankles me. We don't have subcommittees. We just have committees of the city council. And each one of these minutes reflects that that the housing committee is a subcommittee. The housing committee is a committee. It's not a subcommittee. It's not a underneath a committee. So, I would like just to make sure that we change the
language to make it appropriate. We've gotten into this bad habit as a council and others of calling our committee subcommittees because we think of it maybe as under the council, but we're these are all full-fledged committees. So, I I would just ask that we make that change throughout. >> Okay. Thank you, counselor. Um, do you
want to submit that in the form of a motion, counselor, in terms of making these adjustments? Is this um I'm not sure if I'm being presumptuous. Uh, considering that I'm assuming that this is um not just on the housing committee, you would want to remove this language
for all um committees that has the sub in it. >> Again, not a big thing. I I can't deal with other committees. All I can deal with is this one right here. So since we're here right now, if you're on another committee and you see it, you may want to do that yourself. If we're not on the same committees together, I think that we are. But anyway, so yes,
I'll make a motion that we just amend it just to reflect the accuracy of what we are. We are a committee, not a subcommittee. That's a motion. >> The motion has been made. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Properly second. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. >> Um,
do we have a motion that already has been made for the uh minutes? minutes. And did I get a second for that? Was that properly second? >> Okay. All those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. >> The first item on our agenda under new
business is item 29326. The request to discontinue the use of hubard place. No. As a matter of fact, we're going to motion to table that item. It's open for discussion. >> You want and we can take respondents. Um. >> Okay.
So item 29326 request to discontinue the use of Hubard place as a public way. Um we don't have uh Mr. McCarthy our planning director to discuss this item. Um so >> I would like to >> can I
>> make a motion to send correspondence to the uh to Mr. McCarthy uh to provide proper documentation as of why it is important to discontinue this road. >> Okay. >> The use of it because I mean on the memo
they sent uh they mentioned that it was going to be uh documentation attached but the only thing we see is the the actual view of the street. So we have uh from the west
a view from the west and the actual map and plant to the of the u of the street. So I want to know why is it a project that is going to take place on there? What are the
intakes of us taking a vote to discontinue this road for the public use? >> Okay. Um, so you made that as a formal motion. >> You made that as a form. Can I get a um a second? >> Second. >> Discussion. >> Discussion.
>> Yeah, just as a reminder, the memo they received today, Mr. McCarthy did ask that we table it. I'm just just so we all have it so we're all aware of that. um until um because the planning board is meeting on >> August the 5th and so we would need to
have once we get their information and I think what the what Mr. Rodriguez is suggesting makes a lot of sense. We should get that information and and be more informed. I don't think that's a heavy lift. So, um yeah, I I agree with that and just want to make sure we're aware that there's a reason why he's not
here because he wanted to table it. So, yeah. >> Okay. Um, madame clerk, do do you have the language in terms of the the request? Okay, motion has been made and properly second. I believe all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it.
>> Motion to table. >> Can I get a motion to a motion to table this item? >> Motion to table. >> Motion has been made by councelor Miguel. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Uh, properly second. And all those in favor say I.
>> I. The eyes have it. Um, can I get a motion to unte item? See, 19226, which is in reference to the 141-143 Hancock Street review of sale
conditions. Um, we do have uh members from um >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. I was I just wanted to recognize um the the party that's here uh to discuss this item. So motion has been made by
councelor Rodriguez to one table. Can I get a second >> properly second? All those in favor say I. >> I and the eyes have it. Um councelor Rodriguez I I want to make sure that I extend the the floor to you considering that you had requested this item to be added to the agenda. So if you could
just go into details as to the reasoning behind requesting uh this item and um continue the uh in terms of the line of questioning >> as a question before what what is the number again >> 193 wait 192
>> it's under tabled >> new business 19226 >> thank you is it in our packet is it in here >> it should be I see >> it should be May 5th 190. Yes, it's right here. >> Good. All right.
>> I wish they were n I wish our pages were numbered. Okay. >> Um councelor Rodriguez, you have the floor. >> Um couple of things. I thank you, Madam Chair. Um couple of things on this item. Uh essentially the first thing that I would
like to to u to bring up to um the committee attention is that this this cell took place back then um I believe in January around that time of 2016.
>> Rogers, can you put the mic a little bit more? Sure. Um, this sale of these of of these two partials took place back in 2016. uh I believe uh the at the beginning of
the year 2016 and um the intent of that uh of the of the sale of that property was uh specifically on a video that we're going to be witness so we can we can all have the um the the discussion
and not just what I said. So if you can uh Maria, do you mind telling John to play the video? That way we can have like a true perspective of what happened back in 2016. >> Okay. >> And that way so the video that we're represent and representing the the
planning department >> and we would like to hear um more about this property and why we um we are taking this step. >> So um are we talking about 141 or >> 143 the first one? >> 143.
>> Yeah. So um this is a direct disposition to Lawrence Family Development Fund. They are um they're basically youth build. They use um kids who are 16 and 24 years old um out of school youth ages
to build energy efficient homes. So the point is to sell both 143 and 141 Hancock Street so that they can merge the lots and build their house. >> All right. Um >> I would like to open the floor to for discussion
but before we do that uh do we have any representation? >> Yes we have >> from you bill. >> Hi >> good evening councilors. Aprilski for Lawrence family development education fund and the alternative development program. >> Before you continue can you say your
name and address for the record please? April Lcowski. >> Um, did you say it already? Yes. All right. So, thank you. >> I can see. Yes. Um, and I'm rep here representing Lawrence Family Development Education Fund. I'm the alternative
youth development program director. >> All right. Um, so and um can we talk can you tell us about um the what you guys are planning on doing on the property? >> Okay. We're planning on um building a single family home which is going to be
energy efficient and it would also offer two off well offer off streetet parking. >> All right. Um three parking is >> how many parking you say? >> Well, we have to go to zoning. So I believe for a single family unit on in
that area that district is going to require two parking spaces. >> All right. So this is located in 143 141 143 Hanko Street and uh we have two different document. Uh the first document that we're talking about is 143
Hanox and uh the lat area for that property is 3,000 square footage. >> Correct. >> And currently SP it's vacant. Uh that's located on district D just for the record. And um
we definitely would like to see that area to be redeveloped because that's very important uh on that street specifically. We have just a few houses and the project right behind it and uh that I believe this is going to be a
very good development for our community especially uh knowing that it's going to be from it's going to be it's going to be it's going to be built by so many young kids from the city and and so many kids that really need to learn uh and
skill and go up there to the workforce. So this this is going to serve two different purpose meaning uh we're going to have uh kids going to work and learning and then going back to work and serve our community. So their
recommendation is uh a for um to make a motion. >> Yeah, please. I would like to hear a motion uh for uh the disposition of the property 143 in Hanko Street. >> So uh Mr. Chairman, I have to make a
motion that we send document number 609 disposition of 143 Hancock Street with a fable recommendation to the full city council. >> Second >> discussion. There is a a motion and properly second. We would like to if there's any discussion
>> discussion >> there's any discussion >> discussion. Y Mr. council u plant. >> Sure. So, um obviously these two through you these two are combined essentially. We're going to go through this one first. I just saw the pictures. Second
one, you're going to combine them. One single family house and you're going to have two properties. So, the one single family house will be on over 5,000 ft of property. What's our zoning right now for that first? >> I believe it's 5,000 >> what is it? >> I believe it's 5,000 square feet. >> All right. So, that's going to meet that. So, we shouldn't have a problem with zoning. Correct. That should be a
slam dunk because you we meet the requirements after we merge them. Correct. Okay. And uh right now we're this is this is going to be handled through Lawrence family development fund. And while Lawrence family development fund
has this and the others will are they will there be any taxes paid on this property? >> Uh no because we're exempt. >> So we will expect that properties will be paid when upon sale of the property. So, we'll pay for the property at the
time that um we have once we set the time for the closing and we'll pay for it. Um and then once we build the housing, then that will be um sold to a first-time home buyer and then that's when the property taxes will start to
will be you know >> what's your schedule on on on construction? >> Construction. We hope to begin that construction within about um almost 12 months, but right now we have to go through zoning. We have to go through this process. So that and we have another house that we're starting. So
and so we probably about a year out. >> Uh Mr. St. is this on the tax rules right now? >> It is not. It has not been in the tax role for a few years now. >> Isn't the tax title? >> Yes. >> Okay. So So once we just so I'm clear.
So once we finish this process with the council once she goes for zoning for what kind of is it a variance you're going for zoning for >> for which I'm curious for what purposes? >> There's a little question with the square footage we we're showing 3,000 ft plus the 2178 but when we measure it it
seems a little smaller than that. So they're going to have to do some surveying and and and then maybe um >> and the direct disposition is obviously going to family development fund. So, >> and the amount is $6,000 for each.
>> Uh, so be 12,000 for both. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, the um so it's going to be year after council proofs first then zoning and then it's 12 months after you get the variances from zoning board. >> Mhm. >> So, and and is this on the zoning board
agenda now or are you waiting for this? >> No, they need to purchase it first. So they they'll have to go through the full council, then schedule a closing, do their title examination, make sure everything's it's fine with the title and then we'll we'll go from there. >> Okay. And I think and there's what is
nice about this, you got a track record on here and this you got at the last page of our document, you have properties owned by the family development fund incorporated. And it looks like there's 12 properties that are on there.
>> Yes. 16 properties that are on there. Um after I want to know our success with this. Some of these are going to back to nonprofits for schools. Of course, there's no taxes paid on it. What's been our track record so far once we sell these properties to a to a to a private
individual? Are do we I'm I don't expect an answer now, but if you do, that's fantastic. I'm curious to know after we have sold these after we have um transferred the property over and it looks as though these are these all nonprofits that own there right now all
these 12. >> Yeah. Um are they I think >> I see gyms I see Orange Wheeler. >> Yeah, those are all nonprofit. They're owned by Lawrence Redevelopment Development Fund. So they're a nonprofit. >> So these aren't properties that we've transferred over in the past. These are
the ones that currently own. Okay. These are because of the tax verification form. Y >> um everything that they own need to be listed so we can get a stamp. >> I'd be interested in knowing based on the track record of the Lawrence Development Fund Incorporated our success rate from taking these
properties that we're not paying taxes >> developing these properties putting them on the tax roles. Um would you be a I think the council would be interested in knowing that and I'm sure it's a sterling record and you should be proud of it. So, can you provide that information to us at the full council meeting? >> Yeah,
>> great. Thank you. That's it. >> One more question. >> I could just give you even, you know, a picture. >> I can give you a picture of a house that um we sold this fall and we built the same identical house um that's in the picture here so that you could see it.
And this this house now is um under agreement. >> So, which one is that one? That um >> she's going to >> 37 38 West Street. That's a prototypical. How's what you're going to be looking to build on that other one. Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, I'd like to make a I like to amend my motion to request that the full council that they provide for us. Um I'm not sure how far back do you typically go on those how far back we've been doing this with this organization? >> Um
>> ballpark. I don't mean to put you on the spot. Five years. I've been here for about 5 years as the director, but previously I've worked in the, you know, several many many years ago, but I can get as much information as possible. >> Let's go five years back. I don't want this to be like this incredible drain on
stuff. So, give me five if you don't mind. My amendment is five years. Go five years back. That's before the full council so we have an idea what the track record is. >> That's it. >> So, just one question. Um, this is the house that you're going to build. Something like this is what you're planning to build. This house here is a
little bit probably bigger than the house that we're anticipating. Um that's a four bedroomedroom house with it's almost about 2,000 square ft, but I think because the lot was it could accommodate that. Um the lot that we're purchasing and you know once they emerge
they have somewhat of a slope. So we're going to and they're really deep and long. So depending on the um you know the lot itself, we'll have to determine what kind of house house that we'll put there. So once we survey it and we do all of that, that's what we'll
determine, but it will be it will be a single family home. >> Okay. So I have no >> So I I have a question on the sale price. You say $6,000. How you guys come up with the price? So we have a um real estate task force which is comprised of the assessor at city attorneys, the
business economic development and someone from the mayor's office where we all meet and we talk about the pricing. The assess value is what we usually go by but these are were under assessed because they're not merged yet. They'll have a bigger value once they're merged together and we came up with that
amount. >> All right. So there is a motion on the table. There's any discussion? >> No. It's properly mco. I would like to call for a vote. All all in favor say I. >> I. I. >> The eyes have it. So u we would like to go through the document. U
>> councelor. Um I think it councelor present is in the back >> and I just want to um Okay. Please. >> So uh currently we have an emergency and and councelor Vasquez um but is here and um >> I have to excuse myself. I have family
emergency and he comes to to replace me. So >> I'm going to leave my share to him. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. I hope that everything goes well with the family. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Everything.
>> So um council would like to take document number 3115 up right now. >> Yep. I'd like to make a motion that uh we approve document 311-15 141 Hancock Street. >> So, and that's going to be with that with track record 5 years or that's
going to be all >> um I'm going to it's going to be the five years amendment as well, but I think they're going to do anyway, but yes. >> All right. Yes, there is a motion on the table on can I hear second? >> Second >> discussion. >> All right. Discussion, please. >> Uh one of the questions I didn't Thank you, council, Mr. Chairman. One of the
questions I did not ask on the previous one, we're directly disposing of this one. So why are we doing direct disposition the real property task force? Were there any abutters that expressed any interest? Why do we go direct disposition as opposed to RFP versus a yard sale program?
>> If a property is valued below $35,000, we do not need to we don't need to follow 30B where we need a competition. um they came to us looking for a lot that's perfect for this and the value is way below the $35,000. So we just we're
just doing a direct disposition. >> No. Okay, I get that. So but so we didn't even look at or entertain a butters. We the city felt so strongly about direct disposing of it that we weren't even going to entertain any any of Butters. Is that is that what I'm understanding? >> Yes.
>> Which is the city's discretion by the way. Is that a bad thing? But so that's that's the opinion of the city. Okay. >> All right. There is any discussion on the table? >> No. Okay. There is a motion on the table pro um properly second. Um all those in
favor that say hi. >> I have it. Uh thank you so much. I would like to we would like to see you on the full council with those two items and um and uh there is other item on the on the agenda.
So, council president, you still have the floor. >> Uh, I think that the v the video will help out um >> jogging people's memory. >> Exactly. So, I went ahead I and I looked
for the video to make sure that um we referred to it as the original discussion first time firstand information instead of just saying. So, the organization is here. Okay, if you don't mind.
>> So, I would like to first ask you >> Oh, the mic if you do you know how to turn it on. >> Okay, >> let me know. >> Um, well, I would like to recognize you
first as a former counselor of the city. Thank you for your service. >> Thank you. Long time ago. >> Ever district. >> District def. There we go. Second best you uh you've done. So uh and and the second thing that I would
like to u to tell you is that your flag look amazing on your shirt. >> What's the what? >> Your flag. >> Oh, it's the Irish edition that our young adults did. >> Well, uh essentially just talking about now we're talking about the item. The
reason why I brought this item to to the council, it was because I was so excited back then 20 2016 >> Mhm. to hear that that you guys were going to use that property. >> Yes. uh to develop it but not only to
develop it because development they are they serve different purpose on this one specifically is that the fact that you the organization was going to be using this
property to to teach a trade to the kids and like I mentioned uh on that on that intervention it was that this project is going to serve two different purpose purpose. >> Mhm. >> Helping other kids and also the development.
So that didn't happen. 10 years later, we're here. >> Yeah. >> I'm glad that we have the video so we can discuss the the conditions. Uh uh so what was the intent of the council at the moment? Um the property was sold I believe um
160,000 65,000 >> 165. >> Yeah. 165,000. There was no development at least on on with the mindset of uh on the intention of of what the council did this position for.
>> So why why we didn't do anything about it? Why we didn't do the developments? >> I wish I could speak to 10 years ago because I I did review the uh tape, but I think I was at uh in the community college life back then. Uh
we did this pretty much. Um how to explain it? Last year we changed superintendent executive director. Uh Mr. Carrera went over to the school department. He acted in both as the school and the the executive director of
the nonprofit. Um I think what we if I if I remember and I'm getting my history secondhand so I could be wrong here. uh we ended up transferring or selling a piece of property to the the Buddhist temple right behind the Essex projects
and the condition now I could be wrong this this is coming from second secondhand information was that the city was going to find us another piece of property now I understand your concerns u we did everything for a person who just I've been there
three years I we did the research with attorneys the real estate companies and we didn't see any uh anything that the council any restrictions that were there uh did the due diligence with uh Mr.
Anachello's office got clear. I mean we paid the attorney fees. If there was something in writing, I don't think we would have done this. But, uh, at the time last year too, when we split up from the school, just a little little
history with the the school department got a new superintendent, uh, their board decided that they wanted to divorce themsself of the nonprofit. So 33 years of what PAC built, all of a sudden it wasn't like a long 18-month
process like I wanted. It was a three-month we're going to cut it. So you know, as the executive director, I'm there saying I've got to pay out 40, 50 people who've been with the nonprofit and not the school side. So these people, facilities, IT,
uh, nutrition are all getting transferred over to the the school side. Well, we had to pay them all out. Cash cash was tough at the time. Um, so our board got together and Miss Miss Enos
Annie and the the board decided that let's see where we can come up with cash so we can make sure when we do this divorce um that the people who work for us for years and years are taken care of. Now, we still own a couple other lots that we plan on going on, but um again, that was
a decision I made at the time with with board approval. Um, if I knew it was going to cause this kind of ruckus, I wouldn't have. But again, we we hired an attorney. The buyer had an attorney and, you know, the registry of deeds cleared it. I
uh I didn't looked at that meeting from 10 years ago. Uh, you know, I tried to YouTube it a little bit. I got a little advantage reading the notes that the lady taking the notes. I saw her name on it. But uh you know 10 years ago
we've been through a lot. We also at the time had a millia puberty funding to do this project uh you know co hits everything else hits. We had to return that money uh to build it. That was five or six years ago. So we had a foundation
that was helping us build this property. That money all disappeared. So again it you know short short term I would have hated you know I hated to let go of anything because we need all the projects we can get. Um we've in the
engineering phase to do another projects already but um you know it was a tough decision but it was a financial decision on the the board. And I do apologize for it, but um you know the long-term sustainability of
our nonprofit was kind of took priority. Uh the city when the city decide to support an effort that means that means a lot of money. >> Mhm. >> Uh most of the time because we we could
do something else. >> Yeah. I remember that we we we sold the property two months after this this discussion and the location of that property uh was
on Oxford Street. >> Yes. >> Uh right behind the Humble Court. >> Yeah. >> That property duplex was sold by the city for $120,000. >> Okay. >> Same size. Mhm.
>> I have a discussion with with many many uh um many people at the time about you know supporting the organization because one of the thing that I asked and I and I need to ask during the meeting is how we come up with the price. >> Yeah.
>> Because to me it was it was like it was something like $12,000 for 5,000 ft lot that is a buildable lot. It it is something that we need to make sure that we we do what we need to do.
>> And the main point is that we need to teach the kid how to build. >> So those kid that probably are lacking on on on support that you guys currently have to today with different grant that we support the
organization. uh they have something else to to build on. >> Yeah. >> And and and and I was extremely excited when I saw the property been built uh this year
happened to be that I passed by uh council mom also live right around the street. Um I said, "Wow, finally they're doing it. I'm excited. I'm happy." When I went ahead and and look at the at that uh what happened, I saw I saw it that
you guys sold the property and I was like, "Oh my goodness, this is not this is not right." >> Uh because some of the questioning around the property was your track record >> around these specifics. >> Mhm.
>> Uh and and the fact that we didn't you the organization didn't follow through it is it is disappointment. It is extremely disappointed that you know I need to bring this up for an specific reason and and trust me if you would
have told me that there is any or ask the council I I'll video I find it within an hour. >> Mhm. >> An hour of my time find the video because I kind of like you know have that
I'm a little sick when it comes to remember things. I don't know. But I kind of like, you know, did a little bit of research, find the video right away. Very interesting video after after that conversation.
um after after right when we finish. But the thing is is like why not coming out and ask the question in a good faith >> and potentially come up with something else
uh that serve the purpose when we when we put the conditions on that property obviously was potentially was not on right invasion. what you said. I'm not going to disbelieve what you say >> and what the the attorney said,
but some of the some of the the the the conditions were that the property need to be sold to a first- time home buyer. >> Mhm. any developer on an opportunity that happened in Lawrence will make that condition
>> because Lawrence is such a hot market right now and working potentially with other organizations that do the same thing as helping our kids and and do the the condition of meeting the condition
of providing a trade to the kids through volunteering. There is also organization that do the same thing and and potentially there is there is so many opportunities available that selling the property to the to the to a
developer independently who's the developer uh we we could I just said we couldn't do a better job. I mean >> understood >> it's like it's a loss on the city because we believe on the organization.
>> Yeah. and and and not having not having a result after so many conversations. And trust me, I follow up on the property >> constantly throughout that 10 years. Yes. >> The only the only time that I haven't follow up is because I never thought
that it was going to it was going to happen this way is since you actually took over. >> But I always keep on asking like when are you going to guys going to develop that property? I want to come and volunteer. It's in my district. I want to see it built. Want to see a beautiful house. I go to a first time home buyer.
Uh, and it's it's like I I don't understand. So, just for the record, I want to say like, you know, the the main purps that we set even though potentially they were not in writing as you saw on the video is that
the property was going to serve two purpose. the development and that working for the kids and I use a specific word that said that they're going to come back later and and and uh and work on the community. Uh a single family home that was supposed to be
built. Now it's a duplex. It's another another house meeting the the the parking requirement plus extra parking uh because it was it was supposed to be a single family. uh the project never started 10 years later still here and
the loss that the city have when it comes to the pricing. Uh it was it was never met. Uh it's like one of the uh one of the thing that um the property assets at the moment says
that the property was under assets due to the fact that we were going to the the organization was going to build >> um under those conditions to be able to help out So those are the the the the things that
we we we we have a I have a personal commitment. >> I understand. >> Uh and and and is is is is disappointed that you know I understand that the situation with the school you know the both of organization went their
different ways. Um I I don't have an opinion on it. >> Eventually I will do >> not right now. In the meantime, uh, we just hope that, you know, things were different. >> Yeah, I understand. I will tell you
though, the youth build program in the last two years since we took over has kind of expanded besides construction and we are going to start the construction as we we handle our financial situation. Well, we're in a lot better shape than we were two years
ago. I will tell you that. But that school thing kind of gave us a little bit of a beating. Um, but we've had probably 50 participants. We've uh we started a culinary program. Uh, we started the embroidery and screen print and that's where you get this nice
shirt. Uh we graduated I think 34 folks in the last two years with GEDs and I think eight of them went to community college which is a whole different we're kind of stealing the Miami version where they go from us to a certificate program
at the college. Um and we're partnering a lot. We've got plumbers coming out of this and HVAC folks that we're sending to different places. Unfortunately, we can't send them a great Lawrence because some of our young adults have a little bit of a background issue to get into
the the school system. So, we send them to different um training facilities. The unions have been pretty good to us. Uh but the certificates that these young adults have earned the last couple years have been uh has been incredible.
Anywhere from high set to OSHA and all the construction programs. So, we're on our way back up just last year. It was a it was a good test of me as an interim director for three months. Uh that's the first thing I got was this divorce from
the school and uh I wish it could have went a different direction, but uh the long-term survival of the uh nonprofit was kind of >> No. And and I have one more question. I would like if you don't have an answer for it, that that's fine. And I hope that we can
>> if I don't I'll get you one. >> Yeah. Yeah. I hope that we can come up with something. So what is it or that the organization going to do uh for for us to as a city to feel satisfied and to go back to the trust uh
we I personally have on the on the organization uh but now it's a little bit of lacking. >> So I will tell you in the process with the local builder to to start we When you build a house with Youth Build,
it's a three-year project. Um, you know, start to finish. It's just you're going through three classes. So, your first class is there 9 months and then you get you have to wait till the next group comes in. Um, we're going to uh work with the local
builder. We've got a couple lots. Uh, we're going to work with the city and put it back in the firsttime home buyer program. You got my commitment there. We'll put it in writing. Uh we're going to sell it under uh 25% undermarket rate, whatever the market rate is. And uh we decided the route to do go now
with this community is build a two family as opposed to a single family because with the price of housing, even if it's 25% off, is still expensive. So I think most families will need that two family to kind of afford
even a a discounted uh home. So, um, we hope I I think they changed housing folks over community development again, so we may have to start over. Um, but we we're in the process of doing that stuff. So, I will keep you uh updated
all the way through. Uh, but we will um get back into the building. Unfortunately, there's not as much interest. All of a sudden, our kids would rather get um um their certificate in music technology and they'd rather go
to community college and the culinary program. We just ran like an 8week starter program and we had 14 folks sign up for it. So, there are new youth build class coming in. So between culinary the building and
sending the young adults you know to to different certificate programs um you know CNA programs I think the community college is on the right path of doing a lot of certificate program too. So we plan on working with them. So once they get their GED test out go to the
community college get a certificate pro a certificate. Yeah. I'm not sure what what program they're going to get and then get to work because most of our young adults do not want to go to college for two years, four years, maybe four or five months is enough. And that's that's kind of the
direction we're we're going to right now. So, I mean, we've got truck drivers, HVAC folks, plumbers out of this program. Um, so it it's been successful, I think. Um,
it's working. We're we're trying everything to keep these kids interested. I mean, we're even doing detailing of cars that we're taking a couple a couple a day and teaching that. Uh, a lot of the young adults want to be entrepreneurs. So, they they're looking at different programs and that's where
our screen printing and um, you know, car detailing program is going now. It's they want to be working from the south. They don't want to work for another company. So, we're trying to meet them halfway with that. um construction. We're starting to do a lot more finish
work. We just took on some art program at Costello Park. So, we're building all the benches and all the the uh benches and bird cages, whatever they whatever they want. Um little libraries for the the park. I know you'd be
interested in that. Um so, we started doing that, too. So a lot of the construction over the last through co um became more finished carpentry. You know people are building benches, they're building um desk, you know, so it's it's a little
more um little more specialized nowadays. Um it's it's hard to get a young adult interested in the the building. Those who do stick with it and we help them. Um,
you know, before I got there, there were a handful of them got into the construction union or the laborers union. So, we're hoping to kind of build that back up. >> All right. Um, do you mind introducing each member that is >> Sure. I think you might remember Mark
Andrews. >> Just for the just for the people here. Mark and I have been together for too many years. Uh Mark works part-time in our grant management uh staff just he came in when I came in because we lost most of our administrative staff. So I
needed someone with a bigger brain than me with numbers. So we brought Mark in and Mark works part-time for us. And Annie Aino Enos is one of our new uh board members. Not new, it's been a year, right? >> It's been a year. So I got her for five
more years. I don't think I'll be here five more years. But, uh, Annie, our our board has really changed too, over the last couple years. Um, it's went from a lot of board members, I would say mostly my age to now probably
half the board is in that 28 to 32 range, all all folks who are very involved in the community. So, it's a different vibe with the board. Um, it it's good where we started this strategic plan. Essex County Community Foundation gave us a grant so we make
sure we're going in the right direction. So we uh contracted great young lady to do the strategic plan. She's been meeting with everybody and uh I would invite you to take part of it too counselor because we we're taking the positive with the negative. Um we want
to kind of build this program back up and and get in the same direction. Remember, a lot of the work we did was managing the school, managing their HR, ma managing their facilities, managing their IT. That's that's all gone. So, we're concentrating on the the nonprofit
end of it. So, it's been a it's been a challenging year. Um I've taken two three-month stints. One is the director of CESU, and I walked in there, and there are two people there. Um, and now we're serving probably over 1500 uh
young adults and kids a year. Uh, we're not I always say we're not a basketball program, but we have a niche with the kids who want to play recreational sports, not the I love the boys club. Coached them for 17 years there, but
we're not um we're not a competitive program. We're a fun program. Um, and we're a free program. Even though think we lost our funding for that this year, we're we're working on getting that back. So, it's been a tough year
with uh state uh state and local funding this year. So, we're kind of u trying to figure out how to how to keep up the program and because it'd be a shame to have 700 kids
and uh who participated last year just have nothing to do because um that program really works. and the volleyball program. My last brag, um, fifth through eighth graders, 90% female
fifth to n eighth grade uh, young girls who I thought basketball was what everyone wanted to play, but volleyball is taking off. So, we're in jeopardy of losing that, but uh, we'll find a way to get it. You know, it's my job to find the money.
>> Okay, council Rodriguez. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. >> No further questions. Okay, councilors, any questions regarding this item? Councelor Lelant. >> So, I feel like I've been par parachuted right into the middle of this discussion and I don't have the background and so
the 10year-old >> 10 years ago, Mark, >> thank you. Um, so I guess what is there now? I just went through Google Maps and there was an empty lot. Is there something there now? So I I think they built or I'm not
not sure if they finished. It was a two like a split >> duplex >> um duplex. >> So just so I can encapsulate the entire discussion here. >> Thanks to the history, >> we sold the we disposed of the property,
transferred it. I think I eloquently asked some questions regarding that. >> Yes, fair. Um, and that was that. And then we expected to see youth bill to get involved and see a two family over there. This is, by the way, before we had a lot of housing
situations that have just spiked in the last six or seven years, right? So, this >> Well, if I may, that Yeah, I the budget for that whole project was uh basically sell it for $150,000. So, the numbers are a lot different than they were back then.
And so for the reasons that you mentioned >> um variety of reasons, your organization sold that to a developer. >> Yes. Yeah. We sold it to a developer um
I think last August, September. Um put it on the market one day and sold it. So we probably didn't price it right. >> And how much did your organization make on that sale? um after everything I think about 158.
>> So it was a direct disposition for was it 1600 >> 12,000 >> 12,000 >> 12,000 and you sold it for $150 >> Mhm. >> pretty pretty good rate of return. >> Pretty good. And uh
honestly the nonprofit needed it. So >> yeah. >> Sure. I I now I I understand the situation a little more clearly now and and and I >> I used to represent that area by the way. So you have three former one current and two former district D
counselors in this panel right here. So, >> um, >> so I remember that and I remember that when that it was always that little area by the Hennessy was always a situation we're trying to to to spruce it up and so I it was I was happy
>> 10 years ago to see something going on over there because it was an eyesore for a while. >> Um, okay. And and and and counsel my my colleague who put this on the agenda, what is the is there going to be a motion tonight? Is there a purpose? And
now that we've gotten this here, is is there is there what is the intent? >> Well, um Malanche, >> you have the floor. >> Um my my original intent was to find out
the reasons as to why the organization uh didn't follow through what was promised on the B on the on the city council meetings and uh and provide us with the reason. Uh my future intent is
to potentially have some type of a letter from the board. >> Uh you know explaining the the situation that explained to us and we can part we can put that as part of the record uh on
the data item essentially. Uh have that and then take that take this as a framework as of how we potentially deal with um uh with lots that we sold for within a specific
purpose other than just building. Uh we have done that in a couple of other properties. I going to follow up with with at least two more >> that that I have seen that something went to the to the other side and not Um, >> good intent.
>> They have two two other properties. Oh, >> other organizations. >> Okay. >> Councelor LL. >> Yeah. So, thank you to reclaim my time. So I think the biggest one of the one of the things that we that I've learned from this and
I'm surprised by is in doing the legal research through the registry of deeds that there was nothing there that would reflect the transfer of the property with the
conditions that were attached to That to me is troublesome. >> Not only troublesome now that I'm seeing it here. To your point, it's troublesome how many other entities. I mean, there was a time that
we were going disposing, transferring yard sales, constant, constant, pages, a page or two of conditions, right? And there's always this couple things. is one is I was always under the impression that those
conditions need to be met >> in order and then you know how much time after that it's open to discussion but these in this particular case none of the conditions were met because nothing happened um and that and that's and one of the things that when I was chair of
this committee for a while one of the things we started to try to do was go back and try to find the properties properties and that we disposed of to get an update. Did they meet the requirements?
And we started doing that to a certain point, but it was as city government labor intensive and high and high turnover of staff. So, as soon as we got going and bringing stuff over, it happened for a little bit and then things happen.
>> We'll be hiring interns. So maybe this is something um to to look into if it this is a potential um responsibility or task that can be given. Um if you don't mind counselors
um I I do have a question considering that uh both of you were um part of that meeting. Is there any language then and even moving forward um actively when we are
giving approval with certain conditions and these conditions are not being met? Um, is there anything along the lines with language stating that um if the the organization is not meeting the the criteria, they're not selling the
property, they don't get to complete certain tasks, that it has to be given back to the city or sold back to the city for a dollar. I don't know. Like is there anything along the lines where we're approving this sale
with the pretense and the assumption that they're going to do X, Y, and Z? X, Y, and Z was not done. Therefore, like is there any language that stated back then that they ought to return the property back to the city?
Is that ever been um a consideration for previous >> Not that I can recall. And to answer your question most directly, not that I'm aware of, there has been and is currently boilerplate language regarding the conditions. Um it's more of a legal
question that I don't have the expertise or the ability tonight to discuss or give my opinion on. Um uh there there but that's that's a question that we should be asking our legal department um for an answer which
is in this scenario what are the obligations what are the obligations of the the purchaser the the the the transfer the transferee and we're the transfer and what's our what do we have what rights duties and
obligations do we have so if they don't do it are we able to take it back in a in a scenario where we would learn that something's being sold. Do we then say you are not you're not ab abiding by the terms of the of the disposition, you now are in default. We now claim the
property back. I don't know the answer to that question. It's a great question. So that's something maybe this committee can ask. Uh maybe this is the vehicle here. It's more of a >> this is done. You can't go. we're not going to be able unless we're filing a
suit against against it and that's gonna I don't know if that's where we should be going with this. Um, but I I you know that's that's a good question. I I my line of question had to do with how to move forward in a way where if
we're presented with this situation again hopefully not but as you had stated you know how many of the properties have we've uh approved and we approved it under certain conditions being met and they weren't being met. So
it's a little concerning and um I'm just trying to make sure we're not glossing over the this is pretty egregious. Can I >> just just let me bring something up through you, Madam Chair? >> Are you all set, council plant? I just >> on this issue and then I'll push the
floor. Um just and it's and so that's my bigger point. A smaller point to my colleague. Um so this this document didn't have a lot. I don't know where this was going. I have no idea what this it would be good um to have a little more meat with this rather than just a
review of the sale collection. bring it whereas like we're supposed to in rule 13 whereas the transfer of the property took place in October of 2016 whereas the price was blah blah blah whereas a listing of conditions whereby we realized that this place was sold in I
want to make up dates there November of 2025 whereby the city council >> I agree about that kind of stuff so I would just encourage let me just say and that's it on that thank you >> I agree with you when >> councelor Rodriguez >> when I actually um
put this item on the agenda. I went ahead and did some research, find the video um and put the item on the agenda. Right after that, we we got the old item. And I truly believe that uh when when I received the information,
potentially I asked somebody to put as part of the package, but I not quite confirmed yet. Uh but all the research that that I did I I I I think that I actually asked for them to be included on the record. I can check on my emails.
But anyway, the point here um the point is that yes, more more information need to be provided. But the point here was to review the video that because that video speak by itself. It's it's like it's more than just a lot of a lot of
pages of document. So I'm pretty sure that you know this conversation is more clear uh with the video other than you know any other documentation. But buying going back to the question you asked about the conditioning
I think that what happened with this cell was that we took it a sec of faith and the conditions went out on writing. >> Say that again. Uh I think that what happened with this property is that we spoke about the
conditions and we took it as a good faith that that's what's going to happen and conditions conditions were not in writing. >> They were not in writing >> I believe so. So when we sold the property it was the condition were not part of the deed.
>> Oh >> that's what I that's what I think it happened with this but hold on hold on let me go back. Hold on let me finish. Um, but what happened with I believe over 90% potentially, but I don't want to say 100 because we have an example that that was that were not part of it
potentially. I can look at the deed, but I don't know. I'm pretty sure that the conditions were not there. Conditions that we discussed here, they were not part of the deed. Many other sales when we do uh a sale with the conditions I look at the deed once they get uh at the
register of deed and transfer and those conditions are there. Once we have cases on this council that we have conditions on the deed that says no structure can be allowed uh as part of one of those conditions.
when when you do the title search for that property uh to sell the to sell that property or to build on that property, no bank will give you money because the title is not clean. You have a a cloud. So since the title is not
clean, you're not going to get a loan. So they come in front of the council to remove those conditions. And we have have many cases uh that uh they come in front of us. They
many people have purchased a, you know, $500 lot, $3,000 lot that today is cost a lot of money and they come in front of us because they want to build. And uh this council have repeatedly says no, you can't
uh you can't remove those conditions because that was that was not the intent of the council at the moment. And um those those conditions haven't been removed. So that's the that's the key component if if those conditions are built in within the deed uh and then the
deed uh cannot be transferred or if we don't remove those conditions perhaps to build can be transferred as part of the property uh when they sell but that specific portion of the of that lot can only be used for a specific purpose like
for parking and stuff like that. I think that what happened here with this is specific situation is that yes, they were going to build and they were going to sell to a first-time home buyer if we have conditions on that property and then by the time that they that they
were going to sell and then they were going to find that conditions on there and they were not going to be able to transfer. So it was it was a cliche. So um that's what I think it happened on this specific situation but most of the
situ the conditions that we said uh at this council um they they they will hold up on on loans once they uh once they try to clear on a specific loan. So that's basically what
what we have we have seen >> councelor plant >> to >> my to my colleague what it's unusual and like you mentioned it is standard practice to have conditions why do you suspect that there was no there was no
conditions on that on that boat I I I suspect that there is but again I'm not on I haven't done the research so yeah I'll I'll research it I will I will do my research on it as Well, um the good thing with the Ro set of deed is that you can go 100 years old or 100 years
and you can find all those deeds. So what I what I'm suspecting is that due to the fact that it is a program that's going to build a house and then subsequently sell the property to a first-time home buyer having
restriction on the deed was going to trigger another process uh that was going to be um more expensive. So I'm assuming it's an assumption. I want to be clear on that. I'm assuming that that was the reason why those condition were
not set on this specific situation. >> But that's an assumption. We can definitely do research about it. >> Okay. Any further questions, comments, any motions that need to be made?
>> So, I mad before you mad chair. Before I make a motion, I want to ask one more question. You have the floor. So, The intent of this discussion is to make sure that the organization understands
that it is important to first have open communication especially with the entity uh that have do that do business in a yearly basis with the organization when it comes to uh any movement related to
the city because the organization doesn't have to do everything and that's not the intent. But I mean u how how the organization is going to obviously you you need to bring it to the board but how the organization
is planning on um bringing this up and and potentially coming up with a resolution with no significant result because it's already sold. But how are you guys planning on approaching this?
I guess and and again I mean it was our feeling when we hired the attorneys and worked with the uh the buyer that it was clear deed. I was
always told and I'm not a real estate expert or a lawyer that and you said you checked with the registry of deeds. I mean we did our due diligence. I didn't go back into it a city council meeting
from 10 years ago. I wish I did. Um to see the the intention as I could do what was on paper. I mean we we did it. We won't make that mistake again um with the other lots. I mean we'd like to
continue doing business. I think we built 10 houses prior to CO which was a shame that everything kind of ended then. Um, but it's it's I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place here. I mean, we we
understand your concern. You you look at the tape, you understand that. But, um, you know, I don't want to say we did what we did was I I mean, we we hired attorneys. That's
what we pay them for. We we uh you know our board approved um you know us going out and putting the uh on the market because we are we're having some financial difficulties at the time. Um
so going forward I think we'll again the next projects we're already planning ahead is trying to work with community development. I don't know who the housing person is right now. Um we did have some initial um
initial conversations but um we will leave that we we'll try to figure it out but we the only promise I can make is that the next property will be a first-time home buyer program. It will be Youth Build involved. Um again
Youth Build has to work with the local contractor because we don't have the licensed um contractor. I think at one point 15 years ago, we had a licensed contractor working at YouthBuild. It's a retired uh fella, but uh since then, we
haven't had anybody who's a licensed, so we're we're working with the local builder. >> I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion. Um my intention is to make a motion to table but before I do that because we're not allowed to continue the discussion. So I would like to send correspondence
to the board >> uh to send an official letter to that uh to the council to this committee and then once we have that letter from the committee based on the information that was discussed the video and any any um
anything that uh the organization believe should work should help uh to build that relationship between us and uh to send it to the committee and then um I would like to make that as a form of a motion and then subsequently if there's no discussion I would like to
table at this level. So which motion is the first motion? I I want to say one quick thing. It's a motion to table. >> No, no, no. I know it's motion. The first motion is two motions. Eventually it will be a motion to table. I'll second the motion.
>> Okay. Um your mic was off, counselor. >> We'll still second his motion. >> Okay. Um Madame Clerk, did you catch the language of the request of the motion? Okay. Um motion has been made. Probably second discussion. >> And not my discussion. So, I just wanted
to say that that um >> while this is awkward to say the least >> um and um for a lot of not only for you, for us as well, um for I can speak for myself uh for me as a city counselor
just because of the situation we find ourselves in. I still don't think it detracts from the good work that you're doing. And I just think that's important to understand and to state that I think that your organization is doing a lot of
good work with a lot of youth in our city and are making a positive impact and making a difference. And while there may be a blip here, um I don't want to lose track of the bigger picture, which is the kind of contributions that you're doing to make sure that our youth, those
who choose to be a part of what you're offering are succeeding and and when they embrace the messaging and then are be are becoming citizens uh that are contributing back to our city and and back to society as a whole. So, I just want to make sure that we while we're
focusing on something here that's awkward and I I will suggest negative as well just because of the way that it happened. >> Um, we don't lose sight of that. So, thank you for allowing me to say that. I'm ready to take a vote on that matter. >> All right. Um,
>> all those in favor say I. I. Any nays? And motion carries. The eyes have it. Um, I believe counselor, you had another motion that you wanted to propose. Um, is there a reason that you wanted a table uh in terms of continuing the conversation?
>> Let's deal with it at this level and then um eventually if we have to send it over, we'll send it over >> send it over to who? >> To council. But I I mean I prefer to handle this. >> Okay. Uh, councelor Rodriguez made a motion to table this item. Can I get a
second? >> Motion has been made to uh made to table. Probably second. Um, all those in favor say I. All right. >> You say you say I. Okay. Um the eyes have it.
Is there any other items that um we that this uh body wants to unt very briefly? I'm looking for an update. Thanks for asking. Um if there's no objection, I would like for us to unt document number
two uh 0226. Update on the status of litigation regarding the LRA. I take that off the table. >> Motion has been Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Probably second. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Um, >> thank you. >> Go ahead.
>> So, I just was wondering um is there any updates? Is there anything that I know that it's before the courts? I think we're all waiting for a decision. Is there anything yet, >> Council President? No. >> Should we send correspondence for an update to the attorney
>> in the court? No. >> Oh, nothing to do. It's not like a >> No, no. To the attorney that's representing. >> No. No. >> All right. I guess he'll tell us when whenever there's an update. >> Okay. Can I get a motion to ret uh item 0226?
Can I get a second? Properly second. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Any other items? >> No. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> Uh can I get a second? Second. >> Uh all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it.
>> Thank you guys.