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Good evening. and welcome to the budget and finance committee meeting. It is Wednesday I mean sorry Monday, April 27th. It is now 6:42 p.m. Committee members present to my right I have council president

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Gavanni Rodriguez and councelor Mark Llant. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022, this meeting of the budget and finance committee is being conducted both in person and via remote participation. A reminder that persons who would like to listen or view this

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meeting while in progress may attend here in the city council chamber or watch through our YouTube or Facebook pages. counselors and members of our gallery, when we um as we stand up, can

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we please take a moment um to honor retired Lawrence firefighter, Lieutenant John Gil Gilhouie, who recently passed away um a few days ago and is also a Navy veteran for of our nation. Can you

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please rise for a moment of silence? Now join me in the pledgece to the flag of the United States of America to the standy for councilors. Um, can I have a motion to approve the

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minutes from the April 13, 2026 meeting? >> Motion has been made by the council president, seconded by councelor the plant. Discussion on the minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. The eyes have it.

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First item we have under new business is item 15 155-26. Transfer funds in the amount of 457,000 from free cash to fire department overtime account. This was brought to us

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by um the fire department's director of support services and our chief Chief Delaney and who is here with us tonight. Chief, you have the floor. Good evening. Patrick Delaney, um 65 L Street, Fire Chief.

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So, we're here tonight to ask for um $457,000 out of um free cash fund. I'm I'm glad to say it's the least amount that we've come back uh to look for this since uh fiscal year 21. I I know I projected it a couple weeks

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ago much higher. Um after we ran our numbers and and looked at some things, I'm I'm glad to say it's it's a lot less. >> Maria, can you hand me a napkin, please? >> Sure. >> Thank you. Sorry. Um thank you, Chief

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Counselors. Any questions for the chief or for our council? Council President? >> Yes. Uh uh through you madam chair. Uh chief just just just walk me through the operations as of how um overtime is

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needed. Uh the most uh most common one and the most uh the least common overtime. >> Most most of uh everything is is contractual. And so I've mentioned before our minimum manning in the city

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is 24 members. And as the fire chief in Lawrence, I I have to say that I believe that number is low. Um I'll tell you that we we should have at least 27. I believe again we need a a piece of another piece of apparatus that would work well on the southside. We already

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have the apparatus, but as as far as the overtime, we have to build up to that number of 24. Usually we're starting on average with 22 members a shift. So that is before um our IDs which have been

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engine line of duty again firefighting is inherently dangerous. We've average 10 all year. Um so you add that in and then contractually you know the members have earned time off. They could have you know vacation days, vacation nights.

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Um their families could be ill. They could be ill. So when we drop that number, we have to build back up to to our minimum manning of 24. Um so that that's all really contractual. That's to keep our community safe. The the least

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would probably be public education. I've mentioned um numerous times that the Lawrence Fire Department doesn't have any money for public education for our community. So fire prevention does an excellent job when they're working, but a lot of people want us to come, you

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know, nights. They want us to there for their weekends. Our members do an excellent job by, you know, going with the apparatus. Usually when we send apparatus, they're very busy. Um, so they might have to leave. We still try to send a fire prevention member. So

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that would be that would be the least time is is public education. We we try to do that a lot of the stuff with our fire prevention members, but again they're short because um I just need members on the apparatus to build up to

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that 24. >> All right. And um through you, Madam Chair, what is the average amount that we get on a daily basis of uh of firefighters >> as in councelor? Sorry. >> The average amount that we get? So we need 24. What is the average? We're

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starting every day. We're starting with 22. >> Why? >> That's because uh we have a um high amount of ILD injured in the line of duty and then contractually benefits that they're allowed to use their

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vacation time. Per their contract, you could have nine members off for the day. So, let's see if there's anything going on. You could have seven to eight. >> I I understand you just said that, but that's not what I meant. >> Okay. I meant uh >> if

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>> so you you already know that on Friday we're going to have 22. >> That's the start before anything happens. That's before that's before we we factor. >> So there is no way that we can get 24 one day. >> Now that we just hired I remember last time I was up here we said we did some

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hiring. We hired 12 out of that 12. We only we lost two along the way. So we we have 10. um six went through the academy. So actually there's been a couple days where we haven't had to hire and that's been of recent but every time

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we seem to make some advancement by attrition we we fall back a little bit because I'm going to be hiring six more because of retirements. Right now we have two openings because two two did

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did not make it. We have two one retired last week. We have two retiring April 30th, which is this week, and then we have a firefighter aging out. So, I have six. So, I went through the personnel department. We already started the

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hiring process. After we go through the hiring process and do everything, I'm hoping to get them members working by January, February, March of next year. By the time we Right now, the academy is filled

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for October. So once I we send out the cards, we do the interviews, we go through everything, we hire those members, I can't get a spot in the academy till I have a name. Once I have that name, that's going to be out till December, January. The academy is two

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months. So I we started the process. I'm not able to get work out of the six that I need till March. >> All right. Uh let me go back again. So we got we're starting the system at 22. It sounds like the system is built to have 22.

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>> The system >> that's what I that's my feeling because I mean we haven't excuse me that I interrupted but I mean u it looked like starting at 22 is not going to change until we hire more. We just hired six and it's not going to change until we

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hire more. like when is it going to be like because I mean if we have a system set up and you you come in front of us and tell me yes our system is 22 plus two overtime and then okay and then the system need to know we as as approving

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the system we need to know like we need to approve this overtime because the system is designed the way that it is >> yes >> but if it's not and then I want to I want I want to know >> okay >> I mean Is it the system that is like that?

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>> We we're built up to have, you know, if we were fully staffed with everybody, there was nobody on the line of duty, um we'd have approximately 31 firefighters a shift and then one of the trucks is not filled. So you take off that four,

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so would be 27 about approximately we have right now a shift. But when you factor in all the injured line of duties, um right now we have 12. So that's three, six, three in each group. That drops it down to 24. A lot of our

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younger um our younger members have military military commitments and sometimes they get orders where they we hired one gentleman and rightfully so. He he had a military commitment, he left for a year. So that that's another

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factor is our military commitments and some other factors >> which we don't get reimbursed for as well. >> The the reason why I'm questioning this is because

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I've been here for 11 years. >> Yes. >> And it's always like this with more or less. >> Yep. >> So the system is not changing. I want to hear and we we keep on hiring

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more and then we have like other situations like when is it that we're going to have a full a full week of of of of service that is not with the overtime included. >> I I think when we're we're budgeted a little bit more appropriately. I've been

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having talks with the administration. And I think they're cognizant of what we need and I I think they're listening and I think they're going to try to do a little bit more to help us this year, >> but with the overtime >> with with funding that. Yes.

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>> Funding the overtime? No, we funding the overtime. We haven't stopped funding it through free cash or through the budget. It's been funded. >> Yes. What I'm talking about more is like >> when is going to have a system that actually do not include that part like

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it's it's it's like it's it's more like >> it's built into every community that surrounds us. I mean I I go to meetings. I talk to a lot of other chiefs. I've mentioned it before. We're budgeted for

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one million and I say it a couple times, but like Haveril is budgeted 3.5 million. >> Yeah. Make it right. I just want to know if we have a system that at some point we're not going to have overtime >> built in because we have enough staff.

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>> Yep. I I think that's that's very difficult because you could build up to what we have. We're still going to firefighters inherently dangerous. There's always going to be some sort of members we're getting a lot back, but you know, contractually we could have up

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to nine off. >> So any given Saturday off and then so today there was I think >> you know there were there were four members ill and there was about four or five members on vacation and then

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there's one maybe military and then we have to build up to that 24. And again, I I don't believe that that 24 is even enough for this community. >> All right, one more question. >> Thank you. Any other questions? No

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comments. >> Yes. Right now I believe it's it's 12. So there's Sorry, C. So there's ID injured in the line of duty, but then some members if you get hurt off work, you're you know, you're injured on your own

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time. So we've had a couple members come back for that. My question is I have no contact. Is that a big number? >> Yes, it's usually usually we've averaged like six. Um this year throughout the

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year we've averaged 10 for multiple reasons, but our procedures and what we do when somebody is ill, um injured in the line of duty, our paperwork, we work with our third party company, Future Comp. Um, you know, I could tell you all

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their names, all their injuries, and probably their last doctor visits. different question. >> Yes. >> How do you explain? >> Again, I'd have to say firefighting is inherently dangerous. And there's

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there's a couple things of some people have uh you know we had three people get hurt on the the ice and and a couple things are slips. We've had some a lot of in incidents. Our people are very busy carrying um patients down from from

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multiple floors. So I I think if you were any other job if again if I sprain a hamstring I could show up. You're not you can't work on a fire truck with a with the hamstring. And these are all they they go to the doctor and they have doctor's notes. And I think part of the

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problem is is the system is when somebody gets an injury, they go to the doctor and uh you know they they don't get an they need an MRI according to the doctor and they have to be out you know two two months till they get an MRI and

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then maybe they don't need an operation so they want them to do physical therapy and and that could be another 6 8 weeks. So sometimes when we think somebody could be a minor injury, a shoulder injury, they think something's, you know, feeling a little bit off. Yeah. I

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might not see that member for four or five months. >> And thank you for allowing me to try to drill down on this just a little bit more because it's important to to hear the reasons as to why we're seeing more than we have in the past. Lawrence, really, I mean, we've changed, but we haven't changed as a city. Yes. Yes,

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we've got still have big mills, still have lots of fires, we still have >> the calls. The streets are the same. >> I I I I what I'm trying and I think you're starting to touch on it, I think, is I'm trying to figure out what is it

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in today's Lawrence that's causing our firefighters to be more injured. But if I'm understanding you correctly, because the things don't change. We still have the fires. I mean, the trucks have improved, the equipment's improved. fires and all that, but but I think what I'm hearing you and I'm going to give

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you an exit ramp here, but maybe um maybe you won't take it, but it sounds like there's processes here, bureaucratic, I'm going to say bureaucratic, not in the bad way, but there are there are processes in place in the medical field that with the

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medicine and the science as it exists, I'm just paraphrasing what I'm hearing, that because we know more now, they're able to detect things now through MRIs, magnetic imaging and other things. They're saying, "You know something? To get this firefighter back, they need to

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stay out of here, do rehab, do whatever, then they're back." Maybe that's the reason why. And I think that's important. Maybe it's not. So, help me understand why. >> Again, every every injury is different. I mean, firefighting, especially in the city of Lawrence, it's a demanding job.

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The we're we're very busy. They go on they go on a lot of runs. A lot of our our runs are like medical patients. Um, you know, we put them on a steer chair and you're carrying somebody down from from the third floor. I mean, I could

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tell you >> can >> each person has a different injury. Why they get that injury? We probably need a wellness program that may help. Um, we should be keeping ourselves in shape and physically fit and that would help a little bit. But I' I'd have to say

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there's multiple reasons why firefighters get get injured. Why this year we're at such a high higher number. I I really can't answer. >> Could it just be a blip for one year or are we seeing a trend? >> I'm hoping it's not a trend, counselor.

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I hope it's just this year. And I I think a lot I'm I'm going to be getting back. But >> again, it's it's all multiple reasons. There's people with operations. I have a couple people out with shoulders. I it's it's I don't have the answer. I'm not debating I'm I'm not suggesting that

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there's fraud. I'm not suggesting that people are faking it. I'm not suggesting any of this at all. What I'm what I'm trying to find out is why is this is this a trend? Is there something going on this particular year? We have the council council president has been on

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here for 11 years. I've been here for 21 years. This is nothing has changed. We've been going through overtime for a while. I I I don't I haven't really been fac monitoring the ID at all. I really haven't been, but I'm just curious because you you you brought it up, but

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we've been a very busy department for as long as I can remember. Yeah. >> Amazing number of phone calls, amazing number of going out for medicals and and numerous times we had we ups and downs on fires and you've been around as longer than I have. So, you've seen it.

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So, I'm I'm not debating that. But I'm just questioning as to why this year maybe it's just a one-year blip. I don't know. >> I'm I'm hoping so, but yes, it's it's high for whatever reason. >> Thank you. Any other further discussion?

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See, none entertain a motion. >> Oh, actually before we do that, Caffo, I have a question for you. How much do we have in free cash currently? 14,500 500,000 >> 14 million. Thank you. All right. Now I

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will entertain a motion. >> Make a motion we send this up to the full council with a favorable recommendation. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by councelor Leant, seconded by the council president. Discussion. Seeing none. All those in favor say I.

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I. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. The eyes have it. I didn't hear council. Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate your time. >> Next, we have item 156-26. Authorization to expend $10,000.

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>> Uhhuh. >> I need to leave. >> No, but they're here. >> But I need to leave. >> No, I don't want. >> Okay. um we'll be able to have the discussion then at least.

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So um I'm I'm looking at my at Martha and I'm not going to be able to entertain the discussion as I originally thought that I was going to be able to. Um, so what I'm going to do, I'm going to ask formally to the council president

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and to um the city clerk if it's if we're able to put this under old business for next week. If not, if it will stay tabled under this committee until I I have a full quorum to be able to discuss uh your your item. Um, but

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there is a potential conflict of interest. So, we will lose quorum um if if we will be taken tonight. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, the next one we have is item 157-26,

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year-to- date budget review of Department of Public Works. And we have our CAFP here tonight, Ramona Sajos. Um, here to discuss this matter with us. >> Council Chair, I know this may be a little odd. I suspect that when we do these it lasts a little bit longer and

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maybe some of the other matters we can get people out of here a little bit faster. Would you be willing to entertain maybe doing some of the other things and then dealing with the DPW last or any of these that are big ones? Sorry. Sorry.

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>> Well, we have I mean either way we also have the police department. Um I mean I don't have a problem with it. All right. Stay puto. So we're going to the 158-26.

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Approve an ex an extension on the creating a thriving Lawrence funding awarded to Sean Espana. And we have Sue Pink. Sufin our financial manager here with us tonight to discuss this matter further.

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>> Good evening counselors. >> Thank you. Have the floor. >> Suf 360 Marramac Street in Lawrence. um here tonight to request an extension on the creating a thriving Lawrence funding that was awarded to Samana Hispana. The Creating a Thriving Lawrence program was a two-year program that was set up for

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FY24 and FY25. Samana Hispana was awarded $100,000 through the RFP process. In FY25, $46,680 was used for police details and a

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transfer was done directly to the police department by the controllers's office for that um expense. So tonight, I'm requesting that the remaining $53,320 be allowed to be used for police details in FY26. And once again, a transfer will

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be done directly to the police department to cover those expenses. And if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. >> Council, there's any questions for Miss Bank. >> Seeing none, I will entertain a motion. >> I'll make a motion to send to the full council for recommendation.

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>> Motion has been made by the council president. Is there a second? >> Second by council plat. Discussion. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Any thank you.

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All right. Next one we have is appropriation transfer in the amount of 25,000 of free cash allocation from airport to office of planning and development sent to us by the senior advisor. Um Octavian Spanner and Advisor

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Spanner is here with us tonight. Advisor, you have the floor. >> Yes. Good evening. um chair um woman infante and also the rest of uh the the

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committee. I submitted an email uh which uh you want to read it council uh madame chair or you want me to read it? >> The email that I sent >> I have it here. Um we received an email

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by the advisor today at 5:48 p.m. and it reads as follows. Dear councelor Stephanie Fante, chair of the budget and finance committee me and members of the city council. The administration respectfully requests approval for the

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transfer of a partial amount of $25,000 from the previously allocated free cash funding designated for the Lawrence Municipal Airport for the purpose of compensating Mr. Anneil

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Nav Nav Navcar Navar >> Navar >> Navcar for professional services rendered to the city of Lawrence. As the city council is aware, Mr. DVCAR has over the past four years provided extensive energy and sustainability consulting services voluntarily without

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compensation. His contributions have directly supported the city's efforts to advance cost-saving energy initiatives and expand access to critical programs. Notably, Mr. Navcar has been instrumental in

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advocating for and securing the city's equitable participation in the Massafe program. Identifying and implementing energy efficiency strategies across munip municipal operations. Assisting in the negotiation and realization of discounted energy rates and cost

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savings. Supporting the de the development of programs that benefit residents, small businesses, and municipal facilities. The value generated from these efforts has resulted in sustain in substantial financial savings and long-term sustainability benefits for the city far

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exceeding the amount requested. The proposed $25,000 represents only a fractional um compensation rel relative to the measurable and ongoing impact of his work. The administration submits that

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submits that compensating Mr. NAVCAR for his professional contributions is both equitable and fis and fiscally justified, particularly giving the sustained benefits his work has delivered to the city and its residents. We respectfully request the city

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council's favorable consideration of this matter. >> Yeah. So um madame chair uh through you what we um we have looked at the different um as you know the um the free cash ARPA

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funding that we're talking about um all each one of the departments including organizations um were required to use the funds within uh a certain period of time. Um and once we looked at the remaining

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budget um so far uh this amount allocated to the um airport commission has not been used and that's why we're um the cafo and the the mayor and the rest of us have decided to make the

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request based on the funds that are still available at the Lawrence airport commission. So we are asking to transfer those funds since they're not been used uh to pay for the work that Anne Neil has been

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done uh has worked uh and which has he has never uh received any compensation. I think you all are aware the work that Neil has done and um we're only thinking a fraction of that that amount. I don't

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remember the total amount. That was um 61 63,000. So we'll take 25,000. We would like to take $25,000 from that amount. >> Thank you. Any questions for the senior

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adviser? Um, councelor >> the plant. >> Yeah. >> Um, before we I see Bill I I see I see that you you want to >> um I just want to you are working for

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the city council right now and you are able to listen to this discussion from so >> madam chair I'm also a member of the airport commission who's blindsided by this. I I understand that, but right now you are an employee of the city council and um

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>> I'll deduct my pay from the uh >> Okay. >> Madam Scrooge. >> All right. Did you just call him Madam Scrooge? >> No. >> Yes, you did. And and this is exactly the reason why I'm I'm bringing this to the to the attention to the to the

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attention because there was there was one time when you were on payroll for the city council and I was chairing a meeting. And you were very disrespectful, which is why I >> You did. Okay. >> Okay. Council President, can you >> you can attest to that?

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> Um Capital, you have the floor. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. Councelor PL, you have the floor with your question. You're welcome. >> Well, this is just raises a whole series of questions now. Um let me just So the

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original question is this. So, so we have an employee that's currently a volunteer who took the job as a volunteer and is serving with distinction as a volunteer. Now, what we're looking to do is we're looking to pay the volunteer

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for work that that person has done. I'm just questioning the legality of that. So, um, Ramonus Cafo. Um, so it's my understanding, uh, this individual has been set up as a vendor and this is more

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for work that he's currently doing and will continue to do. It's not necessarily for past service. >> And that, I think, is an important distinction because as we just heard it, it it sounded to me that we were looking because of all the work that he was done and we're looking to compensate him for

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all the work that he done. It it made it seem as though we were going backwards. And again, I don't want to bismerch, diminish the work that has been done and how I as a city leader am thankful for

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what he has been able to do and accomplish and I'm very thankful for that and I don't want that to come me come across and I'm not there's not a lot of gratitude >> but as we go forward on this it just I think I think I haven't given us a lot of thought if we start doing that then

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all of a sudden I start seeing other volunteer like you know something a great job how about 10,000 Does that sound like you did it goes a different way a significant grant that this individual has gotten for the city. Actually, a couple of grants that he has gotten for the city. And we currently have two employees that are working for

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the city being paid by grants related to the safe program uh the mass safe program and also energy um sustainability and so forth to help the city. So this individual is currently working and helping the city in many ways. So that's we're asking for

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services currently and going forward. >> So So I would feel a lot more comfortable with that. I'd be a lot more comfortable with saying that this is for services when this is passed by this council going forward and to however I don't know how long it is the end of the

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fiscal year I guess and I would feel comfortable supporting that. I would not be comfortable supporting the alternative. So I want to make sure that in the motion if there is one that that motion reflects the fact for my vote anyway reflects the fact that it's upon adoption by the council that this goes

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forward. >> Can I can I just say one thing? >> Absolutely. >> I stand corrected um through you madam chair. Um but I would like to highlight the fact that uh during the four years that that Anil has been working on all these projects, he's never submitted

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um um a parking ticket, a uh gas for transportation going back and forth to the meetings that he has done. So, uh, basically what I would wanted to say, and I'm and my apologies

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because I'm not feeling well tonight, is that the, um, that he cannot continue to work as a, as a volunteer, having all those expenses and moving forward continue to pay for those uh, uh, you

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know, work the work that he has done, including without getting reimbursed. >> I appreciate that. Mr. Mr. Stan, I know you're not feeling well. Yeah. Uh, which is this. So, I I just heard I don't know how I I didn't know any about Mr. Collins. I I'm not sure if

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he's going to have a chance to speak, >> but I now that I know something, I need to ask the question. Does the airport board or commission are they aware of this? And did they take some sort of affirmative action saying we're not going to spend this money? How did it get to this point? And what interaction

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was there with the airport commission? Well, we we did this through um a public uh meeting uh where when we discussed uh we went back and forth on the the funding that was allocated with uh uh for the uh

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different departments in which uh the mayor indicated that the um the funding uh for the enterprise um agencies like the cemetery, the um airport, I believe

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the library was also in one. No, water water and water and sewer were not going to receive uh the funding as a uh free. It would would be used um as a loan. The proposal was going to be as a loan and

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um so the time has elapsed. uh we have spoken with the airport director on different uh occasions concerning the the the fac the the different projects that were going on at the airport including uh basic co

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cosmetics. So, this is um I believe since 2023 um there has been no projects and no requests for the funds. And now that we're closing um all these projects uh

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and the funds has not been used, the funds are there's $68,000 $63,000 that is available. You don't if you don't use it, do you lose it? >> So, the timing to me is important. So,

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you I was listening very carefully to the tense if it's past tense or present tense or future tense. I'm a little it sounded as though you said it has come and gone. We've passed it and I want to just double check if a if a submission was if something today would it has has

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it already when's the deadline on spending the money? That's the question. Has it already happened or when when will it be? >> Sorry, please. >> Um The department free cash opera free cash does not have a a deadline on spending and I want to clarify that the

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three enterprise departments all declined their loans. They were offered a loan when um the previous CAFO was here at the current market rate interest rate and they all respectfully declined their funds and we have been before this council for

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previous appropriations out of all of those um three departments moving those funds to other departments. So this is not the first time we've done this. >> So my question then is was so I I I hear you and I I think I understand that this is were they was

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that ARPA monies that we were dealing with before? >> So apples to apples. Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> And the airport is an enterprise >> fund. Correct. >> Correct. >> One of the three was the is the airport. >> Correct.

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So just repeat that again because it there's a there's a there's a conflict there in my head about did they it's not like they apply for money and now you're saying that they didn't. So help me in confusion clear that up. >> So all of the various city departments were

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met with the administration and were asking for a certain amount of funds. the administration decided that the enterprise fund departments, water and sewer, airport and cemetery, would get a loan rather than outright free cash.

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>> Um, so they would have to pay it back to the city and each of those departments respectfully declined to take those loans. >> So when So I'm just trying to understand. So if they declined,

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>> I I don't see the problem here. Why why are we why are we focusing on money that was going to be and this memo? We're talking about money that was going to be allocated to the airport and then we're going to send that over to uh to Enil Nav Nevk. Is that pronounced that

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correctly? >> I believe that's correct. >> Okay. All right. Um why did we why did we target the airport when we could have had two or three other one or two other enterprise funds who didn't use the money? and say here >> we've already appropriated reappropriated those funds from the

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other departments. >> Oh, so the only difference between that and this is you have a purpose for this for this funding but it did that come up before to the council as well. It did. Okay. >> Yes. >> Yes. We cannot move funds between any of

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those accounts without your approval. >> Just help me. We go through so many votes. How long ago did this happenish? >> There were several votes. Um, I can I can get that information to you. >> I I I just don't remember it and I'm not doubting you because at this you you you

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have a lot of cash a and truthtelling. >> Sure. >> I remember it was the child care circuit. Um, we use some of those funds uh from the cemetery and even from from the airport >> because the airport originally had

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200,000. So, we use uh 130 for the childcare circuit. >> All right. So, that the I I don't know where the there was going to be a claim. I'm not sure that's going to be allowed this evening, but that that that a border commission did not have a chance to vote on something like this, but in

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those in those other enterprise funds, uh it was the matter of the city saying, "You didn't use it. We're taking it back." They didn't need any other kind of of interaction with another board. Although the other enterprise boards are what? Water, water and sewer >> and cemetery.

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>> And cemetery. Did a cemetery board have a vote at all or do they No, they didn't. Okay, let me think about that for a bit. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, why weren't the boards notified or asked as to why the the funds weren't

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used? My confusion also is they declined a loan. So, what is the $25,000? Was it is it city money that was appropriated? It's not a loan. Correct. >> Correct. If if the airport decided they wanted to take the funds that were

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appropriated, it would have been a loan to them. >> Okay. All right. And then >> so once Excuse me for interrupting, once the department said no, we don't want the money, I don't feel that we needed to >> have any further discussion.

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>> Okay. And that's >> and Melo was in all those discussions. >> Right. Okay. All right. Any other questions? Seeing none, I will entertain a motion. I'd like to make a motion that we send this document up to the full council

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with a fable recommendation with the with the the implicit um understanding that uh this money should it be passed will be will be in the future for any work done going forward after the after

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the um approval of this by the mayor signs off on this. Right. >> Yes. Upon the signage of the mayor, >> motion has been made. And Mur, did you do you have that? >> Motion has been made. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second by council president. Discussion.

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Council president. >> I thought you wanted. So, okay. All right. So, I'm going to bill Bill. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Bill Collins, one plaque court. Apologize for my earlier comment to you.

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um member of the airport commission. Have served four mayors on the airport commission. The only city department that I know of that is actually in the black. the whole opera money deal when we uh couple of years ago the manager was told

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we could get opera money and I've always advocated for getting the opera money but I was never told until recently the stipulation that we would have to pay market rate interest on the money that's why no enterprise fund took it now that

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money has gone to nonprofits that have no connection with the city and are not even registered with the eight. I'm going to say that again. The ARPA money has gone to nonprofits in this city that are not registered with the

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state of Mass. One of those nonprofits, the chair of the airport commission works for that nonprofit got $300,000 of ARPA money. Now, I kind of know why the chairman was

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so firm about not taking ARPA money. So, I guess it'd be enough for her nonprofit. The airport commission was never consulted on this. As somebody who's lived in the city all my life and proud to serve in the airport commission,

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um to see the name airport money and a line item I've never seen before in any budget report for the airport. I was the one that told the rest of the commissioners and the manager and that's how we found out about this money under the guise of the airport is being

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swapped around. Now the individual might be the best thing since sliced bread but he has not done anything according to the testimony of Mr. Spanner having to do with the airport. So why is the airport being used as a shill for this

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money to be shunted around? It just doesn't look good. Doesn't smell good and it doesn't fly. Shouldn't fly. No pun intended. But uh that's why I'm wrankled about it, you know, because I have standards. When

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I see the name of the commission I'm on that's always done outstanding work used to shuffle money around, that's just not right. and uh I had to say something or I wouldn't be able to live with myself. So

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there you have it. We knew nothing about it. They're using our name. The money's going for something that has nothing to do with the airport. We have possible pending litigation at the airport. We have a new administration building coming online hopefully in the next year. Should be breaking ground in a few

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months. I don't know if my name will ever be on the cornerstone of that building. And by the way, everything I'm saying at this podium, I'm going to invoke the Massachusetts whistleblow. Law all my comments have to do with uh my position at the airport

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commission and my opinion as a citizen. And I hope that doesn't affect any of my uh standing as far as being on the commission goes. But I just wanted you to know the other side of the story. Thank you. Thank you all.

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>> Thank you. Any further discussion or questions? >> Seeing none, Maria, can you call the role? >> President Giovanni Rodriguez. >> Yes. >> Sorry. Councelor Mark Land. >> Yes. >> Madame Chair Stephanie Fonte.

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>> No. >> Okay. Motion passes. >> Motion passes. >> Yeah. >> All right. The next item we have is item 160-26. authorization to accept donation of 15 passenger fair. >> Madame cler before we go to the

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>> I just want to make sure for the record uh I have one last questions from the last uh item to the cafo if you allow me to just to clarify for clarification purposes. >> So how do we

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>> it's just a quick question. Go ahead council president. >> Uh the couple who who actually u request this transfer to be allocated to for consulting? >> Did the mayor was aware of this?

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>> Yes. >> Did the mayor agree upon this to send it to the council? >> Yes. >> Did he signed on the document uh to be able to transfer these funds? Um, I don't think so yet, >> but the intent

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>> I'm looking for the council approval first and then >> Okay. So, did the mayor have any type of uh any type of set when it comes to transferring funds from departments? >> Um, if someone usually like a department

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head will usually uh reach out to the mayor and ask for >> the mayor have to bless those, right? Yes. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. All right. Next item is item 160-26.

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Authorization to accept donation of a 15 passenger van rom from oh that's supposed to be from from the Valley Transit Authority MEA. It was brought to us by the executive director of the Marramac Valley

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Workforce Board, Frank Bonet. councilors, we did get a message, an email um today around 4:19 from Frank Bonet stating that he is unable to make it tonight due to a a family situation, which he explained in the email for you

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guys to to read if you haven't read it yet. Um he's he is asking for us to to take action on this tonight. However, um if you do prefer for him to be here tonight, he does understand and is also fine with this item being tabled.

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>> I'll make a motion. >> Motion has been made to table. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by councelor Lelant. No discussion. Um all those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Thank you.

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All right. So, now we're going back to item 157-26, year-to- date budget review, Department of Public Works. And we have our CAPO here, Raona Zajos, >> uh, to introduce this item.

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>> Why are the police here? >> They're here for a table matter pertaining to the cameras and the questioning that you Okay. >> the committee had um before. >> Caff. >> Good evening, counselors. Um tonight we are having uh continuing with a series

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of reviews for our different departments. We are reviewing the year-to-day actual. Uh we have had the opportunity to hear from the police department, the fire department, and tonight we're going to hear from the department of public works. Again, the format of the report is some a format

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you guys are used to. It's broken down by the different orgs or different subdivisions. It has the actual for the current year, last year's actual. It also has the incumbrances and the last column is the available budget. I will pass the floor to our DPW director Jorge

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Hyman. Good evening councilors Jorge DPW director 200 com street. So I'm here tonight to answer questions if you have Does everybody have the spreadsheet? You

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have the spreadsheet. >> Counselors. >> It's in the package. >> On the package. >> Counselors, any questions for DPW? >> No, I just wanted to hear a summary of the year today. >> Let's start off with the summary.

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>> So, as you can see, we are like um in spending freeze right now. So, but we are we were able to expand uh most of our funds that were approved in the fiscal year 2026. Right now is when the department really

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gets gets active. So, uh with the parks, with the streets and all of the projects that we are uh working on. So, um most of the funds that we have, they already been encumbered. So as you see the um the report that you have in front of

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you, probably the the funds that you see that were not expended by now, they probably are encumbered because uh parks department gets really busy this time of the year with a lot of openings, a lot

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of street uh worked including potholes and uh fixing uh our roads and sidewalks. We planning on that. So, um, yeah, that's that's what I have. If you have any question about,

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uh, the budget report tonight, so I'm here to answer. >> Thank you. Counselors, any councelor Le, >> I don't have a lot. I'm I'm more interested in listening. Uh, but I this has become apparently a big issue

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to me, so I will continue on this. In your department, uh, have you purchased any cameras this past year? Any >> cameras? >> Cameras? >> Cameras that you would put cameras for like illegal dumping, for example, any

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camera purchases for any purposes? >> No, I don't think so. >> Do you have any in your budget? Do you have anything that deals with the maintenance of cameras? And by the way, who purchases the cameras for the illegal dumping? Is that ISD or is that through you?

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>> ISD. I don't deal with cameras at all. >> I'm sorry. >> I don't deal with cameras at all. So that's not the function of my department. >> So no maintenance for cameras, nothing. No cameras, nothing at all. >> No, this if IT department doesn't have phones, let's say to buy a camera for

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the city to replace one. So we facilitate the phones to do that. But we don't we don't buy them. We don't >> So what's it? So So what's the exception? I I missed the exception. What's the exception you just mentioned? So if there is let's say at the city

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yard there is a camera that needs to be replaced uh we need to install an IT department do not have the funds for them so we can we can help providing them with the with the money for that. >> So there's there's cameras in the in in the yard in the DPW yard.

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>> There is cameras uh at the DPW yard. >> Okay. >> That's going to be important. There's going to be an ordinance committee meeting I think tomorrow where this is going to come up. It's my suspicion it's not just the EPW it's going to cut across several departments and uh we

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just need to there's going to be there's just so you're aware I don't want to take up too much time on this tonight. I would just ask you to be more uh be aware of the ordinance that deals with it. It's 9.025. I'm not going to go into the details. I would ask when you have a moment to take a look at that and be familiar with it. Uh because there's

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there's components in there that are requirements and uh we'll we'll take it we'll take it from there. So I just wanted that let you be aware >> to I just want you to uh to know that is not part of my job to deal with the cameras. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.

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>> Thank you counselors. Any questions? I want to remind this is in preparation of the actual budget. So this is the time to ask questions regarding the current year. >> Yes, I have a few questions. >> Council, Council President, >> um I have through you, man. I have noted

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that few accounts are expected uh to be to be treated throughout the city. There is a few accounts that are to be treated as as needed. Perhaps one of them is no nice. uh and I noticed that the budget for

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this year will be very high. Uh there is something that is going to affect your overall budgeting and in general or there is something that you're going to budget more reasonably for the future years. So as snow and ice I think it was high

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we had a very difficult winter and there was a lot of no snow removal. So um we went a little bit high on that but compared with different years. So, and and and the kind of winter that we had is not a big different. So, but again,

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so that always affect the budget because we all always fund uh $500,000 when we know that is a lot more than that. But it's going to look like a deficit every year. But again, so we know that that's going to happen. We never know how much

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you're going to spend. So, it depends uh how hard is the winter. So in other accounts so like overtime so we overexpand in our overtime because we working with the police department on those encampments and those are things

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that we didn't plan for and especially with the rail trail project that there was a lot of encampments all along the project and we were working actively with the police department uh to clean the areas for the contractor to be able to work. That's why we burning our

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overtime budget right now. Now that you mentioned that three when I share that is something that you know sometime we don't we don't count on perhaps when we were having the emergency at the bridge uh there was a lot of cleaning that uh part of the discussion was uh okay what

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type of budget we're going to use what budget and uh some of the discussion went around that uh the opio crisis uh fund that fund was not available at the end of the day the DPW the budget

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Yes, our department works like with different emergencies and we have to always be, you know, we always had to move funds from one account to the other to be able to cover with those situations that we uh didn't expect to have. So, but yeah, we're working we're

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working fine and and we have a couple here that is always helping us to to deal with those type of situations. So just on that specific we have we have a budget uh for the dumping a budget that was uh related to a subcontractor or a

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contractor to do the work and also you guys uh u need to spend the money for the fencing and um many other uh consultants that were around. So like I don't how much and overall as as far as you can

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remember uh was spent during that emergency. >> So I I don't have it top of my head right now but I know so probably to just in fencing so close to maybe $20,000

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and uh with the um the contractor that was reviewing the the the bridge for us. So probably the same amount. Can you for next week bring those up? I mean, are we gonna going to entertain? No, >> not entertain. >> No, but they could still you can still

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email us. >> Yes, just just email us that that that uh that amount so we can have a a quick reference of what an emergency might might look like uh or an emergency like this might look like to a specific department including yours >> about the Casey reach, right?

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>> Yeah. on during that situation. I just want to put it in perspective and and see, you know, if if that happened or how many times similar situation happened that the DPW um need to go ahead and and um and and

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you know spend money that it was not expecting expecting knowing the fact that those money could be used for uh better services to the community. not better services but perhaps what is supposed to be like perhaps uh >> more frequent services

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>> more frequent yes that's the proper word because I don't want to say better it's more frequent uh and all of the sudden boom an emergency happened and and those those money are not going to be used uh for the intent of the use of the money

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so just to put in perspectives as to how the budget could be we will do that thank you >> Mr. person. >> And then the deficit that I mean that the amount that looks like a deficit, but you're explaining isn't an actual deficit. It's if I'm reading this

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correctly, it's that 2.8 like around 2.8 million that appears to be a deficit, but but it isn't >> the deficit for >> that. You you just said something about um I forget what the actual question was that the council president um asked, but

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you mentioned something about a a number looking like a deficit, but it actually isn't. >> Oh, yes. When we talk about the snow, so it's no budget. So, we always >> under budget that an item. So, >> okay. >> But we always know that we're going to spend more than

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>> the money that we budget. I have a question pertaining the encumbrances. We have a grand total of 4.1 million around there. Um how much of that is

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being used because it's a uh contractual obligation and how much of it is actually a discretionary? So probably most of it because uh there is a lot of uh contractors that we pay from those accounts like let's say like the trash

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company and and and the trash disposal so is covered with that. So that's those are the the the biggest contract that we have right now. >> Okay. And then I also saw that there was a revised budget which added

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around 1.3 million so to say. Uh where did we where where was that I guess this more this question is for the capital. Where did that money come from? Where did it was where was that money transferred from to the DPW? >> Right. So usually uh purchase orders

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that are not spent within the fiscal year are carried forward and they become part of the re revised budget. >> Okay. Thank you. This is very minor, but there there is we are we do have 3,000 in the red under

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vacation for the public works administration section. >> Can you explain that? >> So vacation is when uh our union employees buy back like the vacation. So um those are expenses that probably we

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do not expect but contractual we had to comply with that and longevity. So it's probably we transfer an employee from another department and it affect our budget on that line item.

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>> Okay. And then under public works street maintenance, there is a stipen that's in the red for the amount of 45,500. What was that? >> A stipen is when um an employee gets a CDL with hosting license, they will get

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$1,500 as um as um as a stipen. So because they they have the license, >> okay, >> to motivate them to get it. All right. So, also this is not too bad.

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We allocated 18,000 for advertising but only about 15,000 was spent. And then the next question is under the public works sanitation. The last item, miscellaneous supplies. I'm sorry, I'm looking at the wrong

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thing. Actually, I was looking at the wrong thing. I think my questions are answered right now. Um, yeah. So, I'm all set with that. My last question is you mentioned that there's a a spending freeze.

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Is this is that spending freeze up until the last day of the fiscal year? Are you projecting predicting any possible spending that the department may need to do even though?

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>> Not right now. So what we do is we send a memo to the mayor and the capu if we expecting of we need to expend some money. So and uh we always get it approved. So, uh, they always allow us to use our budget, but we had to, you

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know, send that memo to the cafo and the mayor just to know to be mindful on that. So, but I said as they know that we dealing with all kind of emergencies, they always allow us to use our budget.

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>> Thank you. All right. Council, any other questions or comments? >> I do. K. Council on the clap. >> So, one of the things that's rare is we rarely focus on fees and and revenues. So, in your department, I'm going to

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recycling is probably one. Probably trash bins are another. I'm trying to think of what else runs through your department. That money actually comes in for fees for services. Am I missing anything? >> So, we reviewing recycling fees. So, we

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going to come up with the um um with those numbers. Uh we're going to send it to the mayor and the caf. So, um probably to you after that. So, for reviewing that, but we working on it. >> So, we're looking at this past this

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current year. So, recycling I don't know what the numbers are. I didn't get I don't think I received that in this packet for revenues for your department. How much money has you have you brought in for for example through the people who need to purchase either overflow

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bags for example or new bins for $100, right? Would that I would imagine that's in the budget somewhere and accountability. Do you do you know what those numbers are? >> Yes, that's that's a revolving fund that we have in the department of recycling. So I I'm I'm we working now and to send

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it back to you because we need to increase the uh revolving funds. So you're going to have all the numbers, all the Yeah. all the projections and all of that in front of you very soon. >> So So that's some of the things. I'm trying to think of what else. Um the C

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the illegal dumping that's probably more is that you guys or is that ISD? >> So the um the enforcement part of the legal dumping ISD, but we had to deal with with the pick up the mess. we had to pick up the mess and again that that

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will affect our budget because then uh the city yard is full of trust from you know trust that we didn't expect to have and and again uh that always will affect the budget because uh if you go to the

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river right now probably somebody just put like a mattress over there that's a mattress that we had to pay for and we did projected to pay so but we're dealing with that in a daily basis. >> I didn't. Okay. So,

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the the for the illegal dumping that's a now a that was passed as a a law from Lawrence. It was a home rule petition. I think it was passed in 16 2016 I think something like that. Um there were again the magic word

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cameras around to catch folks who are illegally dumping and that money was supposed to go to a con that a dedicated fund and that dedicated fund would be used to help with illegal dumping related matters. Have you seen any money

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being brought forward to to to spend from that fund in this past during this current fiscal year? >> Not in my department. because you would be getting it because >> what what >> I hope to >> what the law is supposed to be doing is

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it it it charges the part of the penalty. It it charges the individ for work that you do. That's part of the penalty that the violator needs to pay. And that money is supposed to go into a

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dedicated account which would then be self it's going to be self-funded of course but then be used by you um and maybe ISD to work on making sure that there's no further illegal dumping or or making it more robust. So we

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picking it up or there's purchasing of cameras or whatever it is that takes to reduce the amount. and and I don't want to one of the frustrating things is when someone like myself nine years ago worked hard toward getting this thing passed and signed by the governor and

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we're still today I'm not sure maybe this is a police department question as well I know officer canoe detective officer make sure I got the right title officer Canó >> thank you officer canoe um was kind of

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leading that charge for a while so I just want to make sure And it's it's it's not happening. I'm not sensing it. No one's saying, "Yeah, we although Officer Cano has told me that he's gotten some stuff. So, they've been able to pick up boats on the side of the roads and be able to take it something." But I just don't know where that money's

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going. Maybe I should ask the Capital that tough question and get you off the hot seat for a second, director. >> We'll be We'll be happy to invoice ISD. >> I just said, "Yeah, I figured you would." >> Um, can you help the general fund? >> It goes in the general fund. >> No, I'm asking. I I'm not I wasn't

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familiar with that revenue item. So >> I'm not aware of any revolving fund related to >> revoling fund. It's dedicated. I'm not sure. Maybe >> if it's dedicated, it would be a revolving. >> Thank you. Okay. >> So otherwise we do have revenue accounts that go to the general fund. >> Yeah. So this would not this would this

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this money that's for these fines cannot go into the general fund to buy library books or get a a painter or anything else or get it has to be ded dedicated for just that illegal dumping issue. So

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can you I it it that bothers me uh that that's not happening and that's by law. That's that's a law that was signed by the legislature and signed by the governor. So, um, I'm happy to help you with get some more information on that. I'm willing to >> if you could. Yeah, I'll be happy to look into it. >> It's in the MGLS. You can just do a

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search for City of Lawrence. Um, it's was passed, but I'm happy. Pardon me. I want to say I want to say 16 15 16 in that ballpark. >> Okay. I I don't remember hearing about it, but maybe it was before my time. >> Anyway. Okay.

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>> All right. I can look into it. >> Please do because that's We talked about all the dumping. We talk about all that stuff and we what we try to do here in this council is provide tools >> so people can do their jobs and this was a tool and it's not being used so it's concerning.

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>> Okay. >> So I'm happy to help get some more information. >> I think um the last thing is I there was talk about snow. How much did we go over this year on the snow which is I don't I expected is it three

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1.5 1.6 how much? I wish >> well what am I I'm just looking at what's the number >> yeah so I am preparing the document that I usually come before council >> uh which will have a pretty hefty number for snow and ice and other things that we did not fund last year one of them

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being op and compensated absences I do have a few people retiring so I do have a document but I can tell you in advance if you'd like to hear it >> uh this is the >> you want to hear it next week so yeah >> it's 4.4 4 million. >> That's a lot. >> That is a lot.

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>> That's a lot a lot more like orders of magnitude, right? What was Do you recall what it was last year? >> Um, it's been like 3 million 2 million in the last few years. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> 3.4 last year. >> 3.4 to be exact.

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>> No, no. I compare different years. >> I have it. I have it on my computer. >> That and and while you're looking for that, and you can look for this. What what I what I did was a comparison like how many inches we have in different years and compared those years with the

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current year and different is like about 1.2 millions >> more >> compared with other >> uh years that we had same amount of inches of snow. >> Okay, >> let's say 2018 we had 75 inches of snow.

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We spent 3.4 millions. This year we had 74 inches almost the same 4.7 millions. So the the only thing is prices went up, the equipments uh the prices are higher,

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the gas went up, you know, the south, all of that. And we didn't do a lot of snow removal in the past. This year was a lot of snow removal. We used to go to uh major roads like Broadway, Essex, but

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this year we went to neighborhoods and we we spent a lot of days doing that. >> And while she's looking that up, and I I want this to be my last question. I don't want to be here all night. So my I think my last question is is um trash

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pickup. So you over the course of the last few years have talked about the dramatic increase in the cost of both the tipping fees as well as the as the shipping cost for these. So where are we on this for this money for this for this year? Where are we?

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>> So we good with the numbers but the the contract is going to expire next year. We're reviewing that. We're working on that because I know uh probably the prices are going to go up. But again, so uh it's difficult to to know how much

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you're going to spend in trash when we have a lot of illegal dumping illegal dumping all around the city and a lot of cleanups that we do. >> Where this is in your budget? Can you help me locate it? Is that under sanitation? I'm presuming.

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>> Sanitation. Yes. Under sanitation. >> Solid waste disposal and trash and recycling collection. >> Yes. >> So, so far I'm just ballparking it. This is as as of a the April, April 15th, it's

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almost $5.5 million both solar waste disposal and trash collection. And 5 approximately la last year actual was almost eight

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almost $8 million. So but we this is I'm not sure how many months nine months maybe to the fiscal year >> approximately. Yes. >> So you're at five five I say five. What's your estimate? Do you think you're going to eclipse the $8 million

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mark? You think >> probably 3.6 the U disposal on uh five millions the collection recycling and trash still looking for you still looking for that number.

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>> All right. So these are the numbers excluding the 500,000 we budget. So this is just going to be the deficit we asked for. In 2025 it was a million6 2024 970,000

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2023 a million6 2022 2 million1 and 2021 a million7. So 4.4 it is a considerably increase >> 4.4 four is a significant um increase >> increase beyond the highest was you said was 2.1 I think

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>> okay I am done this is reason why you're here >> thank you >> and thank you um council there's going to be additional information pertaining to this you said next week or you something's coming on the something something's coming to the

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>> yes so I will be having a request for free cash transfer for a few items one of them being um to clean up the snow this deficit and then to fund uh some accounts. >> Okay. >> Mhm. Counselors, any further questions or comments for DPW director?

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>> Seeing none, what was your question? What was the information that you asked for again? Councelor, council president. >> No, we were talking about we were through Malaysia. We're talking about like to get to get the information when it comes to potential emergencies

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that is not expected and then potentially those those those >> those event that might affect any particular budget and >> something through your very quick um director when you compare uh snow and

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ice through through um inches fall. So sometime people that might be easier to kind of like you know understand like like a typical person or we have this amount of snow falling off but I

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mean it's not ice as you know and I know it's it's more complicated than just inches because we could have 30 inches of snow throughout one year and I spend a lot more money due to the potential temperature dropped and the use of salt

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because of the the that uh temperature are law then we might have black eyes and many other situations that uh could be a lot more significant when it comes to the budget.

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So that kind of like you know I just want to put it out there because I know and I and you know that it's not just about the amount of inches but I mean for a typical person they're going to see the amount of oh we have a lot of snow that's why we spend a lot more. So you you are

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completely right uh council president. So sometimes we spend more money when it's not snowing. It's just there is just black eyes. People don't see it. It's during the night. So in the morning nobody sees us working. But we spend the

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whole night with maybe 20 pieces of equipments, you know, hitting the roads because at 5:00 a.m. the school needed, you know, the roads to be safe for them to bring uh kids to school. So that happens a lot during the winter time and

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that's when we spend more money when there is not snow when when it's snowing actively snowing we don't usually push south on the street until we done with the uh snow removal >> and that's the misconception three of Malaysia that a lot of people might have

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oh there is no snow and I get a ticket >> you're right and but the program it doesn't doesn't doesn't the name of the program is not a No, it's this snow and ice that you don't see the ice when it

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happen. But when that is happening and then it's it's a traveling sometime explaining to people or leaving it up to the people to kind of like, you know, figure it out when to park on the proper side because it's not snow, but it's not just the snow. It's a lot more than

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that. >> I think that's it. I don't I think that might be it. I don't have any further questions or comments for you. Um, director, please, we're going to have um Disa send you a reminder of the information, the additional information that the

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committee is looking for. Everything that's been submitted through these working sessions will be um provided to the committee come uh the the the budget for the next fiscal year so that they can have everything they need um to

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ensure a smoother process um for for that for that time. And as the committee knows, if there are any additional questions pertaining to the year-to-ate budgets that we have reviewed so far, you can always um speak to the capo or

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the directors. I'm only going to ask that if you do get questions that you do inform me so I can um include those questions in the overall um documentation for the for the budget for the next fiscal year budget reviews.

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>> All right. Thank you, director. >> Thank you. Um, not yet. Not until we get the >> the Can I have a motion to table item 157-26? >> So, move. >> Motion has been made by the council

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president, seconded by councelor the plant. All those in favor say I. >> I. And the eyes have it. Councilors, can I have um we have three items pertaining to the police department that was under new business

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during uh our April 7th meeting. I have a motion to unte item 126-26, payment of prior year invoices in the amount of 60,000 with the vendor flock safety brought to us by the director of support

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services 128-26. Next page. >> So move. >> Motion has been made by the council president, seconded by councelor of the plant. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Director, you have the floor.

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I know there were some questions and you have the questions, right? >> Yes, I do have the questions. Yeah. >> Good evening, city councils. Rosa Sheper, director of support services in the Lawrence Police Department. Um, I was in a previous meeting um because we

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wanted respectfully to request permission to authorize a transfer for $175,000 from personal to the computer software for the police department uh to pay a current uh invoices that we have with the flock company as well. Uh we

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requested authorization from the city council to um pay prior year's invoices in the amount of $60,000 as well for for flock safety. And on the pri prior meeting you have requested a full review or report from

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the surveillance cameras from 2025 which we will we forward on uh right the next day the report. >> So you you sent it to us? >> Yes. I also uh make copies as well.

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Did I see that? >> Thank you. >> All right. So, walk us through this this review. Um, director, for that in specific, I do have with me the chief of police, Marica Giller, and our IT uh from the police department. They should

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be able to answer any questions related to the camera. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, director Chief. >> Uh good evening. Uh Maurice Shaguar, Lawrence 90 Little Street, Lawrence, Mass. Um as just a a general review of what what the report entails. Uh first

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foremost, um you know, uh the report was requested of us and uh we put that together and returned it within uh 24 hours of request. Um, basically it talks about what the city camera system status is and what we have. We currently uh our

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our city cameras consist of 415 cameras deployed throughout the city. Um, the it operates obviously 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. And just in last year alone, it's uh is assisted in over 100 investigations. This includes homicides,

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shootings, robberies, vandalism, illegal dumping, assaults, you name it. um through its lifetime, since its inception, it has supported thousands of investigations. I know that there was a the report also alludes to the Flock

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system, which is a license plate reader. Uh we have access to approximately 35 flock LPR units. They're placed throughout the city as well. Um and the flock plate readers are critical in the investigations of major crimes, including assaults, robberies,

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homicides. Once again, um, and they're frequently used for investigation and recovery of stolen motor vehicles as well. Both systems, um, as you will see in the report, uh, are combined and they're often used together and are considered an invaluable source to the

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Lawrence Police Department. Data from both these systems is shared with other city departments including Lawrence Fire, uh, ISD, outside law enforcement agencies, neighboring departments, mass, state police, and, uh, and all of this is under the supervision of the Bureau

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of Special Investigations for the Lawrence Police Department. Just uh, as an aside as to what it does, the report also contains how it helps us with data sharing. Uh in 2025 alone, the uh system, the camera systems helped us

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fulfill 191 foyer requests received through the city clerk's office. Um all the viewing and sharing of information takes place through Lawrence Police Department under Lawrence Police Department supervision. Um so far the report uh will reveal that

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we've received zero complaints or concerns regarding either of the systems in 2025. As such, no internal audits, no uh analysis of adverse impacts were performed um as none of the issues arose

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and uh no temporary cameras were maintained by our department. It goes on to uh talk about the costs of the city camera systems. It's about $50,000 a year for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and some of the costs

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associated with relocation. Um there's no separate separate annual operating cost beyond that. And uh as far as the flock, the license plate readers, um they're leased at 3,000 per camera. That's a total about $105,000 annually.

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All costs are funded through Lawrence Police Department's regular operating budget and grants. Um additional personnel costs incurred for investigations and system maintenance also is uh absorbed by us. So I guess the uh report in uh in in an

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overall assessment describes why this technology is vital and irreplaceable asset to Lawrence Police Department and also a force multi multiplier as far as our investigative efforts. Um so that's basically the very gist of what you have in the report there. I think that it

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addresses you know placement uh and and some of the questions that are posited and are and are required under chapter 9.25 25 the surveys technology ordinance. >> Thank you, Chief. Questions or comments

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for for Chief Aguular? >> Councelor Lat. >> Thanks. So, first of all, let me just commend you and your department for getting something to us so quickly. Uh that what that tells me is that it tells me that it is important to you and your

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department that cameras are while an important tool also it's a very powerful tool and it with it requires a lot of responsibility and and and this is uh the fact that you send something so quickly to us I think is um testimony to

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that belief. That's the way that I'm looking at it. So I want to thank you for for getting that over to us so quickly. >> To add if I may council the plant. It also um shows efficient um recordkeeping if they had

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this information so quickly available to them as well. >> It it does. It does. Um I will I will say that in in I think this is good and frankly it's better than what we've received last this year, last year and for several years. So this is this is

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good. Um, with respect to getting this thing, I'm not going to block this from going up. We need to pay this bill. Um, but I'm very curious tomorrow night to see what the ordinance committee decides, how it's going to handle uh this ordinance and how we go forward. I

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don't know how much I don't know what's going to what they're going to come up with. I'm going to try to be here tomorrow night to try to at least provide some context and maybe a recommendation or two. Uh but I'm but they're the committee that that's responsible for setting signing up to

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the full council. So um uh at some point I think that it's important while we're doing this here I think it's important that the public have an opportunity to speak on this matter. That's what our

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ordinance says. Um I I don't necessarily think that we're going to we have a bill to pay. It's already in operation. So this is the pragmat being a pragmatist about this and I also want to listen to our city attorney. I don't know what kind of guidance the city attorney has

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to provide to us with regard to navigating something thatar it has not been done in some time that needs to be done. So I don't want to get too far ahead of stuff until we get some of those things ironed out. But I would encourage while this is good

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what I'm about to say may sound critical and it's not meant to be critical in a negative way but critical in a positive way there in our ordinance it is talked about the stuff that it's looking for and going and drilling down a little bit more I don't know if we need it for tonight for the for this for this purpose but

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going forward I think we will need more detail um both retrospectively and prospectively if we start getting more monies and we're adding more cameras. So, I think that will be important

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and um and I you know the thing that's you know we we I think what's going to be important for our residents to know is how how impactful. So, what happens to their data when this flock reader drives by captures their license plate?

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Now, there is a there's a touch point data point regarding that. What's happening with that data when it's gathered? Where does it go? How long do we keep it? And these are the things that the ordinance speaks of. I mean, if you have that kind of information, I'm curious, although I don't want to spend

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too much time on it because I don't I I don't I just say we're going to have to pay this bill. >> Uh well, certainly. and and and I think that that's in keeping with some of the concerns um uh council of the plant that you yourself uh expressed when this ordinance uh was uh being introduced way

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back in 2016 2017 prior to 2018 when it was finally hammered out as you know that took quite some time. >> Um this is information that we certainly uh can try to put together uh for you as as best we can. uh the license plate readers. I just want to put it as an aside and I believe that I'm going to

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reiterate this at some point down the line um is that you know all citizens uh uh have absolutely no reasonable expectation of privacy with regards to their license plates uh when they're driving around the city. Now there is a question as to data and data retention and how it is used. I know that the

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flock uh information has been used when we are uh when there's certain vehicles andor license plates, suspect motor vehicles and the like that have been involved with specific crimes uh you know you know black Honda leaving a particular shooting or something to that effect. It has been invaluable in in in

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order to to you know to break it down. So, I'm I'm more than happy to break down uh or to try to find uh some way of really uh narrowing it down that data um as it relates to a reasonable expectation of what happens to their information, something other than can be

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captured by the naked eye andor the public at any given point in time. um you know uh and and and to work with the council in any which way that they uh deem would be you know essential in order for us to protect at the very least uh the spirit of of what we were

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trying to accomplish or what this council was trying to accomplish uh when it when it created the ordinance. I know that there has been some time uh that these reports have not been provided. Um you know I think that I don't know what

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the last I think 2018 was the last time if if I if I recall correctly understand that you know for quite some time uh you're speaking to about the fifth chief um and there uh that is since since the last reporting and I believe that was in 2021 or 22 uh under chief Roy Vasque who

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consistently uh you know complied with the ordinance and provided that information. I think that uh in in that turnaround uh there was a vacuum and there was no formal handoff process and and no one assigned to uh to assure compliance uh with the ordinance. Um so

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in each change of leadership um you know awareness of this reporting requirements was never carried forward and and and certainly not um you know uh again not honored for a lack of a better term. Uh certainly going forward from here on end that is not going to be the

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case. This is why I'd like to streamline the type of information that is that is it is required and at least to honor the intent of 9.25 and uh and we will gladly do that. One of the reasons why I had it turned around within a 24-h hour period is just to demonstrate that this

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information um is is is something that we can readily retrieve uh you know upon short notice. Uh but also uh to bring compliance is something that for a long time was overdue. So, if I gave you my license plate number, not doing it here publicly, but somebody wants to know

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what it is, you just by my house and you can actually see it. But, um, you could go in there and you could type in my license plate number and then you would see what would you see when you did that? Um, well, first of all, we would probably see a lot of visits to Press

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Cafe, but um I I that's unfair. >> No. Um you know uh uh councelor plant the it it doesn't work in that generalized manner like let's run a certain number and let's see where it has been. Um you know there's got to be

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some sort of uh you know time frame location and the like and that way we can you know it becomes easier. Would you would you like to >> Sergeant Dar? >> Good evening. >> Um, Solomon Dar, Sergeant Lawrence Police 9

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Street. Um, to answer your question immediately, it's going to give you the location and time when your plate was captured. That's what it's going to give us. And then it's going to give us a pattern of your travel time up until we lose that. Right? There's a radius on

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that, too. So once you pretty much leave the city, that's when we won't be capable of seeing that. >> Uh that's a short answer. >> And how far back can you see that? >> Well, the data retentions are all based on uh you know, it's it's retention

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periods are reviewed periodically, so it's in compliance with the state regulations. We don't the only time we're going to view that if there's an active investigation. Uh to give you an answer on how long does Flock hold it, per se. Um, I would have to look into

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that with flock. >> So, these are the kinds of questions. I don't want to drill. >> I'm going to stop there. I can go we can talk more about this. I'm going to stop there. But this these are the kinds of questions that's going to be part of I think either a public hearing or a report. It says how long how can you get

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for your reports are being asked. If somebody wants to go after somebody, they give you a license plate number or gives you a name or whatever. Are you now required to go ahead and start telling him, "Yeah, he was at press cafe on such and such date." Do you have that information to somebody or I saw this

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person on Tower Hill, you know, someone on Gail Street or something? I mean, do you say something like that? I mean, >> I mean, you have two different uh processes here. You got are we talking about foyer requests? Are we talking about what exactly here? When we're actively investigating somebody, that's

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when we trigger this uh program. It wouldn't be triggered otherwise. uh we don't randomly just utilize this. Uh again, as far as retention, just like any other technology, there is attention on that. Uh it's not indefinite. So, housing information is very expensive.

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It's not something that we hold on to. We do have a a timeline. >> Okay. >> Usually any any camera feed is 90 days. >> Thank you. I'll stop there. I got lots more, but I'll stop there. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other questions or

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comments? Seeing none, I'd like >> to make a motion that we send like to make a motion that we send this document up um without a recommendation to the full city council committee. >> Second. >> There's a motion to send item 128-26 as a committee report seconded by the

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council president. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. The next item we have um can I have a motion to unte item 129-26 authorization

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transfer of funds of 175,000 from police administration to computer software uh brought to us by director Shepard. >> Can I have a motion to unt >> motion has been made by the council president seconded by councelor Lance.

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All those in favor say I. I. and the eyes have it. Director. Hi. So, we are here to um respectfully request the approval to transfer $175,000 from administration to the computer

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software align item to actually to pay for the flood camera um uh invoices, which is a total $127,000 for this year. >> Thank you. Any additional questions or comments? >> Additional questions and comments. >> Thank you.

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>> So, this is different than the last one, but it's very similar. So, is we're paying the bill that we're paying goes through all of the last fiscal year. It it stopped on June 30th of 2025.

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>> No, the contract will run should have run from June uh June 30, 2025 to June 30, 2026. So this is a current bill that's that's due. >> Okay. >> Is there going to be is will this will this pay for the balance of this of the of this expenditure? >> Yes.

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>> Pay for everything. Are we is will there be another bill generated for FY27? >> Yes it will. >> So they're going to Okay. Just as a reminder >> part of our ordinance has is I'm not going to go into it talks about that. I'll stop there. So just be mindful.

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Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Seeing none, I will entertain a motion. >> Make a motion we send this up to the full council as a committee report without a recommendation. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by council the plan to sign as a committee report. Second by

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council presidents. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. >> And the eyes have it. Thank you. We'll see you next week. >> Thank you, >> counselors. at this point unless there is something an item that you would like

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to untab. At this point we have no further committee business. So I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move >> second. >> Be made by the council president seconded by councelor L plant. All those in favor say I.

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>> I. And the eyes have it. Thank you so much counselors. What are you saying? >> I mean, come on. So is that why no one shows up? >> Oh, sure. I know that. >> Yeah. Okay.