remote part participation. I don't know if this is okay. A reminder that persons who would like to listen or view this meeting while in progress may either attend here in the city council chamber or use any of our um social media platforms. At this time, can you please join me in the pledgece
to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Councilors, can I have a motion to approve the minutes from the March 11th,
2026 meeting? >> Motion to approve. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair, seconded by the council president. Any discussion on the minutes? >> Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. The eyes haven't.
First item, we have item 79. Um, can we please close the door? Can someone close the door? Thank you. 79-26 year-to- date budget review the fire department. Here with us we have our CAFO Ramona Svayos and also our fire
chief Pat Delaney. Uh Kafo you have the floor. Good evening counselors. Ramona Svajos Kafo. We have had a series of presentations uh for the yeartoday actual for our major departments and tonight we are happy to
present the fire department. They will be presenting the actual year to date for expenses as well as revenues. Um the format is one you're familiar with. It's just same as the one in the budget book. It shows the actual for this year for
last year and it shows it by the different um subdivisions in that department. With uh no further comments, I will pass it on to the fire chief. >> Thank you.
Good evening, counselors. Patrick Delaney, uh, fire chief, 65 L Street. >> Good evening, Chief. >> Good evening. >> So, do you want to give us an overall? I know we have spe Do you want to get right into the questions or do you want
how do you >> however you'd like to proceed. >> All right. So, as a council, if you want to get right into the questions, I think we had ample time uh to review the the details. So I guess pass it on to the vice chair. Vice chair >> just a suggestion. Um madame chair.
>> Yes. >> Um >> allowing the opportunity in the space for the chief to maybe give some sort of um highlights if there's anything from the budget where uh you know anything of importance or priority that you would
>> Sorry. No, it's anything of importance or priority that maybe you want to speak on or touch on. Um and then that we could segue into asking questions um on anything specific regarding the budget. >> Yeah, that sounds great. Um so I I started acting in April. I became
permanent in August. Uh taking a a comprehensive look at the budget. We're we're doing very good in all areas. We're we're right where we're projected to be. Our overtime is is high for what
we were budgeted for. And uh I have some reasons and some visuals for that. But overall the the fire department, men and women of the Lawrence Fire Department are working very hard and we're we're making do. Um I think uh we like
everything we could always do a little bit better with everything and I think we could actually use more money in the future. Um we could probably use some more staffing. I think we are overall I think we're underbudgeted and I think
we're underst staffed compared to similar similar communities in the Commonwealth. >> Thank you. Let's actually um get right into the overtime because that is a hefty um amount there
>> and you mentioned that you have additional supporting documents for that for us to look at. >> I I do. I I can hand some stuff out so kind of gives you a better idea of what we're looking at if I may. >> Yep.
>> Thank you. Oh, I also chief I saw um the post congratulations on the new uh firefighters that are joining that just graduate from the academy. >> That's a great segue into that. We are getting we are getting some help. We
just had six members graduate from the Mass Fire Academy and we had the number one I believe the number one, two, and possibly the three overall candidates and that's a it's a big a big thing for us. It's a great thing for for the
community for the Lawrence Fire Department. We were we were very well showcased because we had six candidates. We had the number one candidate. two of our of our recruits have uh their fathers are on the force so they got
taken up as well and then Mthuan was right after and two Mthuan um firefighters are also their their fathers are on Lawrence fire department. So Lawrence uh we showcased very well at the event and there was something to
really make the city proud. >> Nice. We're happy to hear that. All right, Chief, walk us through the overtime. >> Okay, so the overtime would have budgeted for $1 million. And when I came in last year,
um, looking for the budget, I believe my statement was, you know, I'm here because we're not going to get this isn't enough to get us through that. I said at the time, hopefully it's me that is back in front of you next year possibly looking for more money. And I
was pretty right on where I said we're possibly out of the the 26 payrolls that we're probably going to go through what we were budgeted for in about the 13th payroll. And there's there's there's a lot of reasons for that. Um basically
right now, you know, we have 2024 members on the fire department. Right now I I we could not use 24. Okay. So this is the the first sheet if you follow by we took about everybody's names but that's all our positions.
Anybody that's in colored that you see we we're not able to use. Okay. That's because they were out longterm sick. They were out and they were in the academy which which one thing has changed since this was was made is we
did have six graduate from the academy. So, I think as going on and we get some more people back injured in the line of duty, we're we're going to be able to close those gaps. If you go over to the second page, it kind of shows it by
group. So, we have four groups in the fire department where the red line is, we have a minimum manning of 24. I believe that we should try to in the future bring that number up to at least 27. Um, get another piece of apparatus
So um but right now we have 24 is our is our minimum manning. That means how many people on shift that includes the deputy who's the incident commander. It also includes fire alarm two fire alarm operators. So 21 um
really men and women on on duty. So where you see the red line across here that's where we start. So before anybody use contractual paid time off or before anybody is um is ill or uses a personal
day which they deserve and they have earned that's where we start. So if you see group one if they have one member call in that's that's we're going to have to fill that with overtime. So contractually they're allowed we're
allowing nine firefighters off and any given day or night there's at least nine members taking vacation time which which is allowed then you know we all have families we we some of our times our
family members get sick or we get sick and and sometimes they have to call out fight the fire department is a little bit different if I pull like even you know a hamstring or something like that I may be able to come into another job, but coming into the to the fire
department is is difficult. So, even um you know, something happens, you roll an ankle or something like that, some of our young kids playing basketball, sometimes that they get injured. So, there's injured in the line of duty. And then we have some people, if you look on the other sheet, injured um sick leave
on their own time or injured in the line of duty. So, a lot of times if um we bring that number up, a lot of times we're hiring, you know, 25 members a day and it's really no rhyme or reason for
it to just be an ordinary Saturday in March. Not too much going on. There's nine firefighters out for the day, nine out for the night on vacation. That's 18. Maybe you take one off, that may be, let's say, 17. Then you could have two
or three members that call in ill. It it really jumps up pretty quick. So it's not unusual for us for any given shift to have to hire for the day and you know 11 for the day,
11 for the night. And I think the only some of the things where we we could um where we could slow that down is we could um we could hire hire more. So right now we're budgeted for just under
30 29.75. So we'll call it 30. If we have 24 people that we can't use that's 666. So before we even start on an average it's 24. And again, that's before nine people
are allowed off the day. Nine people are contractually allowed off the night. People um call in ill and they have personal days that we also you we can't deny a personal day which they have three of those. So I guess the the some of the things
would be again I think we're underfunded to some communities around us. I think Ando North Andover is about half our size. They're budgeted for 1.6. six. Haveril has, I believe, 67,000 people and their overtime budget is $3.5
million in Haveril. So, it's sometimes it's it's a workbook. There's I think I mentioned before some people use it as a strategy. They keep their numbers low and they find it, you know, conducive to just higher the overtime because there is a cost of hiring firefighters and and
and getting their gear, the gear with the PAS and everything is getting very very expensive as is as a lot of our goods and a lot of our services. Everything everything is climbing. Um, we I'm grateful to have hired 12
firefighters and we just got six out of the academy. We have two more in the academy. I plan on um we're sending three in May and then I think one more in September. We're trying to get some work out of them where we're training
them at fire alarm and then they could be fire alarm operators and then we could get a a firefighter who's trained off the truck until these other men and women are waiting to attend the mass academy. So, it's really just about
about hiring. Um, I've done a couple things for anybody who was um called in sick more than what I thought was an allotted time. I I kind of did as a well-being check be make sure that everybody's okay. So each individual I've called into my office and number
one just to check how they're doing. If they have any issues, they have any problems, let them know the fire department supports them. We have um employee action u assistance program in the city offered um let them know that
we could help them in any way. Um, per the administration, we're per the administration, we're looking to to do some stuff with how we choose um PTO, paid time off that was um put out put
out through personnel and we're we're going to start um enforcing that which hasn't been enforced probably in 8 10 years. it that could to tell you the truth have an adverse effect if you're not allowing we we have a lot of vacation time but if you're not allowing
somebody to use that day for a week to two weeks it's sometimes that that could cause an issue but um that's what we've been asked to do and that's what I'm that's what I plan on doing. I'm also looking to start a u a wellness program
and make sure that our our people are doing good and they're they're eating right and they're exercising and they're they're being good to themselves and um but a lot of these injuries it's not because of that there's there's falls
there's you know I've said it before firefighting is is a it could be a time of dangerous uh job they're climbing off and on the apparatus us all day long. They're moving around a lot of equipment. We're carrying a lot of people in, you know, for medicals down
from from higher floors. So, that's that's really the overtime. Again, it's we we have a low overtime, but I I think it's because we've been underfunded. It's just it's just not >> I don't know if you can answer this or
if the cap can answer this. What is the projected endofear deficit June 30th? >> I could answer that. Um >> Okay. >> Um we're looking at possibly a little bit under 88 800,000 but I believe some of that is um from
severance. I think the CAFO could speak to that where um the severance they have a plan for a severance we weren't allowed to budget for. >> Before we before we get into that um Yep. Is are there any questions pertaining to
what we just heard at this moment before we continue? >> Um, council president. So chief uh over the years um I have have this discussion uh with with the department
when it comes to the overtime that was at one point the administration decide not to uh different administration decide not to bring this up on the budget. since that they prefer to uh bring it up as part of the free cash allocation and for
a couple of occasions I will say over four times we have approved extra funding for the overtime um and at that time something that happened was that um >> I see
>> um the hiring was basically non hiring uh of any firefighters at the moment or not a significant hiring. So we uh justify the lack of hiring with the overtime, but this is the this is uh we
get into a point that it is not necessarily hiring because we've been getting new firefighters into the force and I don't see the correation between reducing the overtime and the new firefighters that are coming into the
force and um you know it is difficult to have this discussion because it's public safety and anybody that engag reach into that right away get tail into oh you're not supporting public safety but I mean know we need to support uh public safety in a way that u it is also a
a it's a budget it's a budgetary um restriction that we have throughout the city of Lawrence so and the cities is unique we depend on the state aid on many occasions uh for education for many other situations
including grants and so forth so on. So basically, if I don't see the the correlation between new hires and and and overtime, what's my incentive as a council to go ahead and hire more? >> Well, I think council, I think you you
have a great point. When there's a couple different ways to handle it. I think one of the best is to hire more. But when we hire somebody, the six that we just got out of the academy when we had the event on Essex Street, the the block party on Essex Street, they were
working then. So if you remember back to that day, I think that we had that in September. They were they were on the fire department that day. I'm not able to get a name at the Massachusetts Fire Academy unless I get a name. So we have to go through personnel. We have to hire
that person. When we hire that person, then we let the academy know we have we have this member we want to go. Then it's possibly it's probably 5 to 6 months before that member gets in there. And then once that member gets in there,
it takes another 10 weeks. And during that 10 weeks, we also are obligated contractually to pay them overtime, which is uh each member is 10 and a half hours a week. So, while they're in the academy, they're not counting against that number. They deserve it. They're up
very early. They're home late. They're studying. They probably deserve a little bit more, but we're we're also paying them overtime. But I hired them way back in September. Sunday was the first day that we got we we got some work out of
them. We got them on to firet trucks. We're trying to do some other things like hire them at Fire Alarm. years ago, you used to be able to say, "Lawrence wants four spots." Okay? And the academy would say, "Great, four." When I came
on, I started one week. I went into Ben's uniform. I got my uniform. We rode around. We met a couple people. You're right off to the academy. The Massachusetts doesn't do that anymore. They make us wait six, five to six
months. We just hired uh Diana Velasquez just get got in. I I can't get her in until September or October. So I >> Yeah, she But I mean the point is is that now we have the new firefighters,
>> but I don't see the plans coming up to the future >> in regard to the new members. What is the correlation for the future? Because I understand that they can hire before >> but what is the core relationship for the future when it comes to the reduction of the overtime because you have more personal well
>> the core relationship got to be around the set number. >> It it's council it's already happening yesterday I believe last night. We haven't had like an acting deputy where we have enough members on shift that deputy was out and we always have to
hire a deputy overtime. Well, last night was the the first time that honestly I could remember in a long time that we had we had 25 25 members working. So when the deputy called out, we didn't have to pay overtime and we had a member
that fill fills in. So when we hire these members, which I'm very grateful to do, it just takes it takes a lot of time. The other members that came on, they were training at Fire Alarm for 5 weeks. They just got allowed to be the
second operator. So we have now eight members that that we're being able to use and and it makes a whole difference. the the thought of not hiring firefighters would um significantly,
you know, jump up the the overtime. I think um I think the the administration is cognizant of it. We are looking for more funding in overtime. We are working with with the the CAFO to to find some
solutions. But again, it it's our minimum is 24. So I I don't know if you know you you want to hear me to say this but again it's not enough. We don't have enough members even with the with the 24. If you compare us to other municipalities for river they have the
same amount of people of us. They run 10 pieces of apparatus. They have six pumps, three ladders, one rescue and their budget is 20 million. When the governor came out and gave out the grants for 10 communities, Lawrence was
one. You you take those other nine and you add up their population, the average is 88,000 people. When you add up their budgets, Lawrence Fire Department is 55% underfunded, 8.5 million compared to the
Holy Oaks, the Springfields. what the governor said is similar to Lawrence. Haveril was in there. So, I'm I'm looking for solutions. I realize the the place that we're in. We are also looking to try to get some more revenue sources.
The problem that comes up with us getting more revenue sources is it it takes people to go out and do the inspections to to collect the money. So right now, fire prevention is down two members because we don't backfill fire
prevention. So I had to take two members and put them out on on the trucks to be able to kind of slow down the the overtime. But councils, I think you're going to start to see the change when we could get some people off injured line
of duty and we start getting these members that we're hiring to get to get work out of them to be able to them to count to that 24 number. But I I I agree with you. I'm glad to hear
I'm glad to hear you say this because last budget hearing there was a a particular um line item under under personnel. >> Yep. >> That I was strongly against.
>> Yes. >> And it was because we needed more foots on the ground. >> Yep. at the time you were in front of us defending it and um we ended up agreeing to disagree, but I'm hearing a different and I I don't
know what's going to happen this year when we have the official hearing. I'll hear it then. I don't need an answer right now or anything about it right now. But um I'm a strong believer that we should showcase our growing workforce. We don't need more
administration if we don't have the people, a full team of people to to um to to I'm losing the I'm losing my train of thought, but to oversee is what I'm
trying to say. And um I'm hoping that we can get to that point. And perhaps when we do get to that point or at least 50% or over 50% to that point, then I would understand the argument of adding more to the leadership of the department. But
um thank you for being honest and saying we're severely under budgeted. We need this and I I appreciate hearing that from you. >> Could Could I address that? What >> you leave it there? >> Okay. Okay. But I
>> Yep. >> All right. K has any other questions regarding um overtime? >> No questions. All right. Um so you were so when I asked about the the deficit for the end of the year, you started going on to um
uh service. >> Yes. So I I believe we're projected right now that it fluctuates. Um, you know, if we have a three alarm fire tonight, this weekend, um, we, you know, we we call in members and the numbers. We have a couple fires that that number
possibly could go up. Right now, we're expected, I believe, um, south of of 800,000. And part of it is is the severance package. And I believe the CAFO has a plan for for the severance
package. But what's not in that is um, a couple things. I believe it's academic academic incentive and longevity. So we have members a lot of members that are over the years and uh and what's what's
what they have on their side is they could stay some of them um five, six, seven more years or they could retire tomorrow. So I know from the um from the retirement board that we have two members. One of them is turning 65. He
has um he has acquired a lot of time out of this year budget since he's retiring this year. We have a contractual obligation to pay him his longevity and is a part of his academic compensation. We have another member who is close and
he just put in his papers again. He could go a couple more years. He's decided to retire. He deserved it and he's the same. We have another member that is on the fence and um he we believe it's up to him but he's going to
retire. When they retire I think that that's also not in the budget their longevity payments and their academic compensations. So >> and is that I'm sorry to interrupt you. Is that what we see here under fire um suppression operations longevity that is
over it's uh over budgeted by 20,232 with.38 is that the part >> yes I well no that's not even factored in yet I believe that was that's already factored let me see what line do you have here
>> it's under fire so um fire suppression operations Um, uh, 51, uh, 5142. >> Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. >> I have so many papers up here.
>> Let me grab that. I have that. >> I got a >> And then also it's again under fire alarm. Um, >> yeah. >> And that's a little over $2,000. that was was over. >> Say that second part again. Council,
>> it's just the same the same scenario under fire lump just the amount is way less. So um but you were just explaining certain things needed to be factored in. I'm asking is >> I believe that that 20,000 was was
someplace else and that that washes >> that washes out I believe but the that's not counted because we haven't we haven't factored in that to them yet. >> Okay. >> All right. Um,
are there any other situations or um, explanations that you want to go over before I open up to the council members? I mean to the committee members for specific questioning that you as a
chief see that we could potentially see as a as a red flag other than overtime? >> No. >> No. Okay. We're pretty much all our other areas are are pretty much, you know, we're we're right on target in
in most of our other areas. >> Yeah, this is pretty good. Um, councilors, questions pertaining to the fire budget. Council Marmal, >> Chief, considering that um you know, you're advocating for um additional
personnel um which would alleviate the overtime, >> how many new hires did we just get? >> Six. >> 12. >> 12. And those 12 are is that going to be a significant relief to the the current
challenges um with budget or do you see yourself for the next fiscal year um also having issues and needing additional personnel? >> We're probably going to need additional personnel. I probably my first year I
could see myself if with the wish of the city and the council hiring approximately 20. So, we hired 12, but like as I said, we had six of them go to the academy and we have >> Okay, sorry background. Continue.
>> We have six that just re that just came on the job. They're working this week. Uh they're very excited, but we have three that are retiring in April. So through attrition, I mean, we we possibly next year we're and right when
we come into July again, we're looking at a couple more retirees. So within the next year, we could have six more people retire. And it's a little bit frustrating for the Mass Fire Academy that I got to hire somebody and we got
to pay them as a municipality and we're really not getting the benefit of of that that employee till down the road. >> Yeah. No, I could see. It's like taking five steps forward and then two steps back. >> Yeah, we're we're we're doing the best. And again, I'm trying to train them up
at Fire Alarm. We're hiring a couple um civilian fire alarm operators. When I when I hire a civilian fire alarm operator that allows me once they're trained five weeks, it allows me to use one of the Massachusetts trained
firefighters out on on one of the apparatus. So, I I do have some plans. I'm I'm trying to to reduce the number, but what's what's what's you know good good about this for me it's it's almost uh it's it's what it
cost to run the railroad. We're not doing anything really extra. One of the things I'm I'm in a little bit predicament right now. I think I said it last budget. There's not one cent in the Lawrence Fire Department budget for public education. So right now the
weather is going to be getting warm. I'm going to be getting calls from the schools, from churches, from everybody wants a fire education class. And um sometimes when it's during the day again, we we're with staff with the fire prevention. I have it down to four
members because we don't backfill that. I they're down low and they're very very busy during the day. So, I don't like to do it, but I'm I'm possibly going to have to tell people no, that we don't have money, that we can't come to your
function. We can't come to your your educational seminar. We can't come to career day. And that's that's going to be frustrating to me. I >> I get paid salary, so maybe I have to go do it. >> Well, that's sometimes a big boss needs to send.
>> Yeah. And you know what? I And you know what? I I'm happy. I I go to just about everything. When I do send somebody, I try to join um join in and and honestly, that's the best part of my job is being out in the community and I try to go to to everything and I always when I send
somebody, I try to stop by because it's the enjoyable part of the job. >> So, if budget is not an issue or wouldn't be an issue, there's no challenges in getting recruits. >> There's no challenges in getting recruits in the city of Lawrence. other communities. I when I had my my my um
fire chief class, there was 42 other chiefs and it's a lot different in other communities. A lot of them have to be EMTs and paramedics. They're jumping from place to place. And um in Lawrence, some civil service communities, Lawrence, McDun, Yehael, we have plenty
of people taking the test. We just we're expecting the new list to come out April 1st. have probably already got about 10 15 calls from people who have you know their their nephews, niece, kids have scored well and you know it it's it's
it's it's a great job and I'm looking to hire more but again it it it takes it takes time. We'll get there but it it takes some time. >> Okay, almost madam chair. >> Okay, any other further questions?
Councelor L. So, like we did for the police department, I'd like to focus on the bigger issues and then see how that impacts this past year's budget. >> So, the the first thing is electrical. Uh when I go through my district and maybe other areas of the city as well,
I've noticed uh that there are traffic signals that are inoperable or have taken down and there's other uh stops signals sometimes that aren't aren't functioning properly. Where in the budget does do you have jurisdiction over
uh the those electrical slash light fixtures throughout our city? >> We do evidence in the fire alarm budget. We also if I could explain a little bit about the traffic light a little history is this is a part of the job that um I was always aware of. I didn't know how
in you know how much time devoted to to everything it is. We rely in that budget. We do not have enough budget to keep up with the maintenance to repair the replacements of the traffic lights. We rely sometimes on on um we rely on
community block grants. We just got 200,000 to replace nine intersections. Um that was that was I could get you the list where where that is, but basically we have 97 intersections and we have five different sets of lights. Some of
the lights is from the 80s, 90s, 2000. Some of them are brand new. When the state comes in and they do like Broadway, they do a road or something like that. A lot of they have a a a plan to replace the lights. Sometimes they
disturb something when they're doing the sidewalk and then the light gets thrown off. anytime that there's a light that we have a a um report of uh malfunction in lights um we we send somebody right
away and all you the counselors really know because anytime I get a call I one of the things I implemented that we weren't doing is I wanted them to get an incident report of it. So I have the incident reports right on my phone. So, if any counselors have ever called me
and said, "Hey, about this light." I look through my incidents right there and I say, "Oh, no. We we uh we have that." I think councelor Font, you better call me and I think it was somebody else called me and it was Winthre Aenders. It wasn't you, counselor, but I said, "Yeah, we have to
know about that." And I looked and I and I didn't see it. So, I called fire alarm and said, "Send the electrician." Um, and then they go and they should be writing a narrative. So, usually when you call me, I should be able if we know about it, bring up that incident report and tell you like, "Yes, this is what
that what they're doing." A lot of the times the controller, it gets hit. $5,000. I think uh Council Infante, you remember you called me about uh South Broadway and Andover Street and we said, "We just fixed it." And you said, "It isn't uh it
isn't working." And we found out >> was right before the storm. >> We found out that there was another separate accident. A lot of these controllers are are right on close to the street and they're getting hit and every time it's 5,000. It's 5,000. It's it's $5,000.
>> Chief, can you repeat um where Sorry to interrupt you, but where you said majority of the funding to fix these traffic lights are coming from where? >> Out of fire alarm. >> Yeah. You said that within the op the
operating budget, the fire department itself doesn't have enough um money to to fix these traffic lights, but that majority comes from which grant? >> We've been doing a good job. We've been doing a good job of fixing the lights,
but a lot of these a lot of the lights, our electricians are very good like piecing it back together. the way they say it, they they they have to do it with some types of like bubble gum because some of the types would we don't have replacement repairs. So again,
there's five separate sets of five different kinds of lights. The oldest type with we I have a plan going right now. We're prioritizing um a master plan of what we have to do, what we need to to get the city um safe,
which it is to be replacing some of these lights. One of the things that is sometimes confusing to people when they go out there at night, sometimes they cannot fix the light, so they put it to a blinking red and a blinking yellow. And it might not be the best thing, but
that's the best they could do at the time. And it's important to know that that that's a legal signal. So we we don't want anybody to say, "Well, the light was broke or the light wasn't working correctly." Because that opens up up to litigation. So if there was an
accident, somebody says, "Well, the lights weren't working. The lights that's a legal signal. Um yellow and red." And they they tried to get out there and they tried to fix it. Canal Street right before 30 50 Canal. They
couldn't that light was blinking forever and um we got a lot of calls on it and that's the best they could do since we it it became an important area and I had to make the decision like okay um let's fix that. And again that's that's
$5,000. But I I don't know if it's a community it's comes from um I don't know if it's a community block grant, but out of our community development, they have been very good being able to get us some money, but we're trying to, you know, look ahead about what we what
we need to do to replace some of these lights. Again, the state when they come in and touch something, I think it was last week, I called in my electrician and he said, "Uh, I can't fix it. This is the state." and it was a Saturday, a Sunday and we reached out to the
Department of Transportation and we said like we want you guys to send somebody here. This is a dangerous situation in our community and we put something in place that now we have a number because if they're working on it and it goes out
and we can't fix it, we expect them to come in and help out our community. >> Thank you, Chief. Um, I want you stick around, but I got a question for the cappo. Um, Mr. Kbalos, so should we expect a capital budget this year?
>> Um, there is PGO capital. Um, we are in the process of meeting with the mayor and the administration to see what apartments are going to get what. >> Did the fire department ask for any would would fixing and installing traffic signals, would that qualify as a capital improvement?
>> That would be more like a repair maintenance uh charge more than a capital improvement. But um there might be other areas that we can try to see if we can allocate money towards that. >> I believe there was some money chief if I'm not mistaken um from the ARPA money
that's what the the money that was allocated to the fire department >> 200,000 for the nine intersection >> was used for that. >> So so my my sense is this there are not only does things need to be fixed but also there are there are traffic signals
throughout the city where there used to be a traffic signal. It is hit gone. It's no longer there. So you've got like this thing in the ground that you know that used to be one. We need a brand that needs to be replaced. It's very unsafe. The the corner that I'm thinking of right now is is um and and over uh no
Salem and um and South Union Street. >> Uh which is um a place where it's kind of it's really dicey um that that intersection. Uh but if you but that's just one of many. So um >> the money that we have council just to to be uh to rep to go over that the PGO
capital we have a little more flexibility than if we were to borrow money. So we can use that money on the PO capital section >> if we you know if the mayor and the administration decides to >> Sure. So I will thank you very much. I'm all set. So the chief I would hope that you would as you you just heard what the capo said I would hope that you would
consider maybe taking advantage of the opportunity. Now whether the mayor selects it or not is a different story. Yes. Whether the council approves it or not is a different story. But having it on the list and sometimes that even if you don't make it the cut that capital improvement budget is a heck of a a good
document that provides what city departments realize our needs. We may not be able to fund them all but from a planning policy perspective that I'm looking from that tells me a lot about where departments think the money should be going to fix some of the problems that they have. So just as a good advice
look at that. Thank you. I guess Salem and Newton Street because you wouldn't believe how many times that light has been knocked down. >> Yeah, I'm not even talk to you about Five Corners. That's a whole different story. Where's my F? There we go. Yeah. >> So, all right, let's move on. Um, unlawful apartments. I know that you
guys uh the fire department has a relationship with ISD and in understanding and knowing because you go into these things. Where in the is where in the budget does the money come to pay for those kinds of inspections? Are they or or what? I'm not sure how to describe
it. >> It it is it is a f it could be financial implications in the city. It's not really budgeted. It's in calls and it's in services. Um to get to the the um the illegal apartments is the unknown how
many we have. But before to get to the unknown, I have to say the known that in the last 10 years, the city of Lawrence has went up 20% and we've added 10,000 um dwelling units. So that's the known and um again, not to go sorry to go back
to it, but the Lawrence Fire Department hasn't had an extra person on the staff for that. The known of 20 20% increase with 10,000 units. It's been 24 since I get on. So now we move to your point
counselor is the the illegal apartments possibly or whatever. Um there there is a lot more people that adds to more people. More people adds to more medicals means to more incidents. It um more cars on the road adds to more
accidents, more calls for service. And what I think I've said it before, for whatever reason, we find ourselves f spending more time at calls. And that could be possibly when when our members go there, they don't walk away from from
any, you know, illegal units or whatever. We try to get a procedure it with we call a building inspector. We call inspectional services. Sometimes if engine 9 goes to something where they find dangerous, they could be tied up for a for a hour to two hours dealing
with that. We try to Okay, so let's call in a member of fire prevention. that cost overtime if it's during the day that that they're there. We call in building, we call in sometimes a health inspector and again I'm I'm a believer
they if they're in our city that they're members of our community and we we try to treat them with decency and we have a a duty to uh protect them. So sometimes if we go into some of these um illegal well you know the building makes the
determination if it's legal if it's illegal if it's unsafe. If our members come across something that they have a duty to make it safe right there. If you go to a medical call and that back door is blocked they have a duty to they they getting paid for lieutenant captain
acting officer um they they have a duty to make a decision and see what we need to do. Do we have to need does it rise to the level of getting building department in here or could you have somebody around to open up open up that that door? We will call for the owner.
We will make them if there's no smoke detectors, we'll have them try to put up some smoke detectors and we try to get the owners. Sometimes the owners aren't around and it's not unusual to have uh to have a piece of apparatus 2 and 1/2
hours at a call dealing with something to our members don't feel safe leaving there. Some of our some of our problem is, you know, you don't want to be the last one to leave an occupancy and then something happens and then you write a report and now you're going to write
that it's uh oh, I I found this dangerous situation. Well, if there's a if you document that and there's a fire within the next two weeks, they're going to look at that and they're going to say, "Oh, you know, you you were there two weeks ago. What did you do?" So,
they're very very difficult to to handle. Um the policy and the the procedure, everyone's different. Um but to really get back to your question, it adds to calls. It adds time to calls. You can't just go, you know, go in and
say, "Ah, there's six people living dangerously down in the basement with cooking materials and and they're all smoking down there and they have one egress." Huh, you should have saw that place. We we don't do that. You're stuck there with building and
>> Right. So, a couple things. So, one, um, what I'm what I'm picking up from you is that this the question regarding overtime, this contributes to some of the overtime. If I understood you correctly, they're saying there I think you Well, if that's not what you >> It's not It's not much. They They may
call in an investigator to deal with it. Um because that we don't want a truck. You don't want Engine 9 in in your district tied up on Fum Street for 2 and 1/2 hours dealing with uh somebody has a medical, somebody has a hard time
breathing, there's a fire. So sometimes that's a way to free up a piece of apparatus. You call buildings. So, sorry. You call building it, it could be could be we'll be there in an hour. We'll be there in a half hour. >> And and and do you keep do you keep track when when your when your when your
personnel finds unlawful apartments because they're in there doing whatever they're doing? Do they do they keep track of? >> We were we would when I was in captain of fire prevention, we were keeping a log. I know some of the deputies was keeping a log, but I my books are chapter 148 mass laws chapter 148 527
CMRS. I do not make the determination if this is an illegal apartment. We need the building department. They they come and say it's it's a uh if it's legal or it's not legal. So if you have a 2 and a half story building and somebody's
living up in in the attic, I can't say that it's it's illegal. They might say, "Yeah, look at we we have an occupancy permit for here." >> So when when it's illegal, dangerous, then it it rises to a different occasion. I mean, we have a duty to act
on those and and they're very difficult to handle. >> So, the short answer is you're not keeping you you were keeping records. You're not sure. >> We're keeping our own record, but again, it's not an an official record. That would be that would be the building department. They make that determination, not not me. We see it and
we know the places and we keep our own unofficial record of where they are. >> If ISD is going to be doing what they're what we're doing here, that's going to be a lot of questions I'm going to have. And and then one of the things I want to know and maybe the may >> so counselor um ISD is actually the next
department that we're going to have in front of us. >> Super. So so the idea here is you know I'm hopeful that we're not working in silos but we're working together in tandem in unity. So when you see something someone's keeping because when I talk to ISD >> they don't keep records of this kind of stuff. >> It it's
>> I'm like >> I can't speak for them but it it's difficult to handle. It's a transient population. I could have somebody move out of a basement and we, you know, again, I'm a believer if that you're in our community, you're part of our community. Sometimes what the difference
that I see is sometimes families are overgrown. Okay? So there, you have your, you know, maybe your grandmother living with you, your aunt living with you, you have your kids that are co in college and they they can't afford their
own apartment. So, we have a lot of people living in in a building. Like, we get that. I understand that. It still has to be safe. What what I don't like to see is when we have people that own business, own own houses that are from
Mthuan, Andover, North Andover, and they're making a profit putting our citizens in danger. That's when it comes to a a different level. So, if you own a property, and we always ask, where's the owner? or the owner may be coming from Andover, they may be be coming from
Mthuan and uh they're victimizing uh the people of our community by they're charging them rent. So when we go in again, we're we're very nice to everybody. We ask everybody like, "How you doing? How much how much you paying rent?" So you want to get a closet in a
basement, you're paying 500. You want something with no no bathroom downstairs, an old cellar. I can't say basement because the difference between a you can live in a basement, you can't live in a cellar. Um you we ask how much you're paying. People are paying $700
with no bathroom in in in a cellar. and it's not safe. But I understand if it's an overgrown family, but when somebody is making a monetary val a monetary gain out of putting our citizens in danger,
that's when it comes to a >> well it comes down to affordability. We have an overgrowth of market rate housing in our city, in our state, in our nation. And people cannot afford housing right now. And unfortunately that contributes to the continuous
growth of illegal housing within these within these properties. >> I I I agree with you council. But again, people are making a monetary profit out of that. If they want to do good, they want to help people like let somebody, you know, and they a lot of times they
own up to it. They're making some people are making a lot a lot a lot of money by illegally housing people. They're not doing it for the good of our citizens. They're doing it for monetary gain and it's unacceptable. >> Yeah. Let's move. So, well,
>> I got plenty. So, thank you. It's just what this comment reminds me of is >> when I'm making these comments when when anybody comes before us, I'm going to be going before the zoning or planning tomorrow for how many units? 500 units on O 200 units on Ozgood Street.
>> 400 >> 300 360 I believe. >> So, I'll be speaking out against that tomorrow. But but but again we're just impacting stuff on um one of you talked about um you talked about false alarms a little bit. >> Sure. >> Um what do we do you keep in track of
how many false alarms we have in the city? >> Oh, if we had to keep track of every false alarms. Yeah, but there is a there is an ordinance in the city that if you >> try to keep the answer >> short >> short. >> You got it. >> To the point. >> Yeah, >> you got it. False alarms. How many do we
have? because I already see Mark the counselor continue. Sorry. >> So, do we keep track of false alarms? I could run a report and get you false alarms. >> Sure. >> Um, have have we I'm looking at the revenues. Have we had penalized anybody?
>> No, we haven't enforced that. >> So, were is it enforceable? Have have because I've got the false alarm ordinance in front of me. Has there been any >> We haven't enforced that counselor probably in 10 years. Um >> it is you if you have three
>> false alarms within one quarter I believe you could be forced 100 $100. That's >> no there's no penalty for the first three per quarter. >> First three but after that >> the fourth one you get 50. The fifth one you get 150 and the sixth is $200 and the seventh and any other one is $300.
>> You also need we would do that. I'm not against it. We were going to start it. You also need personnel to to give out those tickets and to collect those tickets. >> But also the other the other thing too is that I'm going to go out on a limb here. I'm
going to guess that if we're getting a lot and I suspect I've talked to many chiefs in the past regarding this and so you're not the first person, the first chief that I've asked. I know there's a lot of false alarms. I know there's a lot of repetitious false alarms where we're taking folks going out repeatedly because they're not fixing their system
and we're not finding them and they're not getting the message. My point here to my colleague's point earlier regarding overtime, if we're constantly sending personnel and we're not enforcing this, when this was done back in 2001, this ordinance and false
alarms, it was done because it was a problem and we gave the fire department a tool. And the tool is if you enforce this, we'll get less false alarms and you're out. Our firefighters are fresh. They're not going ahead and dealing with false
alarms. They're quicker to a real emergency as opposed to being tied up on a potential false alarm. It makes a lot of sense. So, it concerns me. I understand the person the the financial stuff on this where you get the people, but but if you do this, it has a ripple
effect on positives to the department and to the taxpayers. So, I throw that out there. I I guess I'm asking since we raised no money on false alarms this year, last year, and we're not doing anything apparently because of the reasons you've just mentioned, but we have I think Chief, we
have to fix that >> because this is a I agree not to go on, but we have to fix a lot of things and we don't have the personnel to enforce a lot of things. I I have a lot of great ideas. I I do it to like you just got
your brand new apartment, right? and but you enjoy, you love to have your first new apartment, but you can't change the rugs. You can't change the the color of the the walls, the old broken things. Um, we've been level funded for the last four or five years, and personnel like
services um from where we get our toilet paper to where we get our our paper towels have gone up 25%. So, how do you know the members when they're calling me on Saturday at the firehouse said we ran out of toilet paper? I mean it's it's real. It's it's this is the things we
haven't been increased. We've been level funded but all our goods and services has went up. We can't we can't keep doing it. >> Mike two really quick points. I don't need a lot is hydrants and flow. And I realize that's a water department issue, but you're involved in that. But that's
an issue uh throughout that would be >> I will be I'm gonna actually hold that conversation because we are going to be seeing something from the water department in the near future and I'm you'll probably be invited to join that conversation. >> They've been doing an excellent job and they've been making
improvements and I'm happy to be here. >> Good. Last last question. Um, I haven't heard much about arson in the city. >> Yes. Have we Have there been many any in this last year? >> No. I think the last captain of fire
prevention did an excellent job with uh, you know, making sure that that wouldn't happen. We and he put some um, great procedures in place to be able to to minimize that. And uh, we work very well with the state police. And there's a lot
of other things that are down in the city is because of its cameras. You go light a fire a car on fire tonight. I call in the state. We'll we'll we work with the Lawrence police helps us a lot. We'll follow you all around the city and say you went into 37 Brook Street. We'll
go knock on your door and say, "Hey, is this a picture of you?" We've had some We've had a We're working on a couple. We have two, three car fire investigations open. >> So you do have some arson that's that's ongoing. >> 100%. And how many this this year? Two or three you said during the course of
>> No, we've had I don't believe we've any dwelling fires. We've had car fires that we we got people on camera um pouring gasoline in a car, lighting it up, and it sometimes these things take month, two months, >> but we're working them.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Are there any further questions for our fire chief? Seeing none, chief, you've survived the date. >> I apologize to go on sometimes, but I have a lot to say that anytime that you
want to invite me, I honestly enjoy coming up and speaking to you. So, >> I I appreciate you guys. You guys do a lot of work and committed to the city. So, >> I want to say, chief, before you leave, um >> I appreciate your your budget overall
year to date looks good. >> Thank you. Um, and given the fact that you came came on as a chief basically mid mid-budget year, so to say, um, it's being managed pretty well. There's minor
things, but the biggest, you know, we we're we're working through it and, um, hopefully some of the concerns that you share with us tonight, we can figure something out, even if it's a small percentage of alleviation. >> We appreciate the help and we have our
renewable budget. I'm not sure if everybody got that. I presented it in front of public safety, which I love to do, too. So, to uh but I have copies of that. I don't know if everybody got it, but if you didn't, we have hard copies. Yeah.
>> And I could send it to you. And it's a great read. You guys will love it. >> Yeah. >> You could take You want English or Spanish? >> Oh, you have them both in one. >> I Oh, you gave me both. Yeah. >> Thank you.
This is awesome. Thank you so much, Chief. >> I appreciate all you guys. >> I told you wasn't it wasn't scary as it looks. I know. >> You guys bring me up here anytime. I I love coming up and talking to you. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, counselors. The next item we
have is item 80-26, authorization to expand $70,000 um grant funds from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts federal funds and infrastructure office municip U u and this is the municipal and tribal
technical assistance grant and we have our grant manager now title grant manager Reyes here um to tell us about this. Good evening counselors. It's Ilis Reyes
and I'm director of project management and development and uh at 360 360. Good evening. So really really grateful and excited for this grant. It's through the state even though the office is called federal
funds and infrastructure but it is a actual state grant where we will be using the $70,000 to complement our current safe streets and roads for all comprehensive safety plan. Uh currently
we are significant we're experiencing a major um portfolio of projects at office of planning and development and so it's been uh challenging to meet the deadlines well not meet the deadlines if not
move along this grant as quickly as we wanted. And so we're now grateful that we have these funds where we're going to get a consultant to help us speed the process for our safe streets and roads for all grant. So it's a complimentary
the state was offering. It looks like the state knows that there's a lot of municipalities that have um limited capacity for a lot of grants and so the submission was for actual consultants,
postgrant work. um and even community engagement. So, we'll be using these $70,000 split between two fiscal years for a consultant to help with that uh safe streets grant. >> So, this right here, what we have the $70,000 is to pay a consultant.
>> Yes. >> To do a job that we have an entire department to do. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's here's here's my Okay. So people think I'm the bad counselor because every time we we have the personnel committee or something come up
about personnel, I emphasize a lot qualifications and experience. We are spending thousands and thousands of dollars on consultants when we should have lead and I know you do a great job. I know the amount of money that that you
have brought in and I appreciate >> the work that you do every day. >> Thank you. >> Um you're welcome. But we're hiring these high per people in these highlevel positions for what? To continue to to waste money on on consultants. So what are we paying these
directors, assistant directors and etc. What are we paying them to do? >> Because every single time, not every single time, but frequently it's something about a consultant this, a consultant that is that is very frustrating. And as a counselor that I
bring this up, I get blasted. I people speak very negative of of me because I'm I'm consistently bringing up the obvious and I just this is I mean I'm sure I'm sure the state could have allocated this to another community that that could
appropriately use these funds and it's I I just don't know when when the city's going to get with the program and I'm sorry I'm giving you this speech because you have nothing to do with that but thank you at le thank you for bringing this this grant but that's that's my little spiel. feel on that. You don't have to comment to that
>> through through you through you counselor if I can just um I guess advocate for for what you which I understand um your concerns and the constituents concerns
at the moment office of planning and development is managing 51 grants right but you we're saying 51 grants but that does not highlight the magnitude of these grants.
So for example in one line if you had an Excel sheet and I can show you the Excel sheet one line says CDBG right and it just has one line and you the reader will think oh it's just one grant right CDBG 1.3 million right within that grant
you have 22 subreients that you have to provide uh fiscal uh management pro uh send information to the federal uh agency. >> There there are multiple requirements
within within one grant. However, we're a small city. There are bigger cities that employ their departments adequately and they don't spend as much in consultants. They they just don't
through through you. So it is humanly impossible to manage a portfolio of approximately 88 million or 80 plus million with the current staff that we have right now. So when you hear the word consultant, it could be for one
grant that has I don't know five years of of work to do and probably like a hundred tasks. Then you have then you need a gr you need a consultant for another grant that has 20 different stakeholders. And so I invite you or the
community to come and at least so weekly we meet on our planning projects. >> It is an intense meeting where we go over all of the nuts and crayons of these grants and that's just one section
of the department. So we can justify every single consultant and um in terms of every single consultant I'm not aware of which you know the list of them but I can say for the ones at least that the grants that I work with or at least for this
particular grant it's a lot of moving pieces. We just got our uh vision zero task force um finalized and now we have to have these meetings once a month. It's a lot of work and if you ask me, we
probably need a consultant for every single grant. >> So, um, so part of that I I hear that explanation, but I also heard within your explanation, um, short staffed. So that brings up
another point that I in my five years being city council, I have consistently brought up the fact that we keep allocating raising these six figure salaries when a percentage of of those funds could be
allocated to increase personnel within these departments to help leadership move things along. Um, I'm sure I know some grants have a lot of moving pieces and I'm sure there's there's maybe majority that that is justifiable to
have to have a consultant, but there's also other pieces to this that if if we manage ourselves better as as as an employer, I'm sure we can alleviate a lot of what
of what you're what you're saying right now of what you're saying or what we're seeing across across the board um in general. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great job defending though. >> Well, these the through you the these are facts, you know, and and I can show
you the complexities and it and it when it comes to federal funds, they are a lot more they're very strict. >> Yes. And so if you promised that you were going to sneeze three times that, you know, in that year, you better
sneeze. >> And they want to see receipts and timestamps. They're they're very specific of of the requirements. I I understand that. Um and like I said, majority, I I get it. I follow you. But there's a percentage that could be fixed
if if we look at other things. Uh, Council Marble, >> um, correct me if I'm wrong. Did we have the same grant, Safe Streets for All, that was focusing in the Tower Hill area last
year? Is this grant overseeing that same area in Lawrence or is there is this focusing in another sector? >> Great question. So, this grant is the citywide grant. is the first one that we got and that one is going to do a entire
study of the city and identify the areas that are have the highest fatality um cra crashes due to vehicles. But we had also submitted separately through to the same uh or uh US DOT and federal
highway for Tower Hill and that one is was recently finally the the grant agreement was finally uh finalized and that's going to be targeting just of Tower Hill and and we're not double dipping in the sense of that you know
we're going to also study that area. Uh the consultants already know that Tower Hill is going to be used or that that that second grant is going to be used for Tower Hill. Uh but this one is for the entire um region or the entire city
>> and that one hasn't been finalized yet, right? >> The grant agreement was finalized which means that now we can start the work >> the scope of the work. The scope. Okay. That was I just wanted to make sure we're not speaking of the same um like the same grant focusing in the same
area. That's almost that. Thank you, >> council. Any other questions? Council >> just made a comment. So, not all grants are treated equally. Not all consultants are equal in your department from my experience. Is that you said you said
how many projects you're juggling. And if we're able to bring in a consultant to assist in a significant one, that free staff up to do some of the other work that's going to require that we can't get a consultant to help. I'd rather sometimes have a consultant
because then and that's paid for something rather than increase another personnel which and bring another body in necessarily because what we're doing then is that we're adding not only employment costs but the benefits, retirement, etc., etc. And sometimes it's even more efficient. Sometimes not
it's not all equal, but sometimes it's more efficient to have a consultant doing something. So the fact that you're able to get this to be able to shepherd this, get the information that's required on an important grant and then free you and others on the staff to work on other things, I think is a positive.
So I'll be supporting this tonight. Um I >> I'm hoping to >> pardon me. >> No, say I'm hoping that that's what we see what you're what you're explaining. >> Sure. So I I think it's important that we we get this thing up there. I don't disagree with much of what the the chair made some very good points. I agree with
many of them. Um uh but in this particular case on this particular item, I think we need to send this up favorably. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, counselor. Um any other questions or comments? >> See, do you have any closing remarks? >> Well, I just want to point something out in terms of consultants and the for the
grants. So this for this particular consultant, they have to be knowledgeable in infrastructure and um transportation. So we can get someone that's another consultant that's working, let's say, on community block
grants to come and help us with this sha safe streets. So it's very there's a lot of moving pieces and there a lot of different knowledge that's needed per grants and per deliverable. So I just wanted to um point that out. Uh, Miss Right, when when was what when did you
start with the city again? >> February 2023. >> Do you know off the top of your head how many how much money you brought in in grants? >> I think it's over 10 million. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Um, I don't see you quite often, so when
I do, I want to thank I want to take the time to thank you for that. >> Thank you. Um, council council, >> if I can make a motion to move this item up to the full council with a favorable recommendation. >> Motion has been made to move up as a favorable recommendation by the vice
chair, seconded by the council president. Any further discussion on this item? >> Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. Any nays? The eyes have it. >> Thank you. >> We will see you. April 7th. >> Oh, >> April 7th is our next meeting.
>> It is. >> Okay. Thank you. Have a good evening. >> All right. Next, we have um item 81-26 acceptance of devices under the Massachusetts Broadband Institute
connected and online program brought to us by the director of RT, director Castillo. Director, you have the floor. Oh, please state your name and uh city address for the record. I keep forgetting about that. >> Good evening, councilors. Carlo
Castillo, 200 Common Street. Um, this is a grant um that I that I wrote right for the entire city. Um the Massachusett the broadband um institutes was um providing
this grant and um when I wrote it, I wrote it for the entire city, but the library and the senior center where the um units that kind of qualify for it. Um, and we're here just to let you guys
know, you know, that we was awarded uh 140 computers which will be dedicated to um replace all the old computers at the library. They have a computer lab, so
now it's going to be modern and up to-date. um 80 laptops uh 40 regular laptops and 40 all-in-one computers. So those are like the considered like uh type of tablets. So um the computers will be
distributed between the library and the senior center and I have the library director here with me uh and also Lely that kind of helped us as well uh with you know the whole process. if you want to say something.
>> Director, >> thank you. Um, >> thank you, director. Um, through you guys, I think it's just an amazing uh I know that uh councilor plant mentioned the opportunity of not working in silos and I think this is a perfect example of department heads working together for
the greater good of the city of Lawrence. I had the opportunity of submitting my strategic plan, our strategic plan of the half li the Lawrence public library to our uh director um of the clerk department Eene Bernabell and I hope you guys received it. If not, I have additional copies
here and it is available on our website. This outlies our plan for the city in conjunction with what we have heard from focus groups and our constituents. In alignment with that, we have realized the real big gap with digital equity and knowing that we have the opportunity to
have not only the IT director within our walls in the Lawrence public library, we have the opportunity of having someone as talented as um ulies as the grant coordinator and we have explored not only grants because grants are available and like we talk about the capacity of
having people who are serving as uh consultants. It's important that we understand the magnitude and the expertise of every department and what that spreads through and specifically when it also comes to managing a team. Uh I think a lot of that has to do with
where we can analyze what we are best and what our best strengths are. And this device these devices this grant that was specifically um chosen by our director and ourselves was to align the the capability of our next 5-year plan
which is build making sure that we build the digital equity gap and that's within our strategic plan. So, we're excited. Those equipments are going to be so used and and the I want to make sure that we understand that he applied on behalf of the full city, but there is a cons a
contingency between the MBI that it has to be for public spaces, right? So, what better space in the library and the center to be able to help build that gap a little closer. >> Thank you, director. You've also been you were you were hired
also in 2023, right? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. We've definitely have been moving our library forward and I know we all see that and appreciate that. So, >> thank you, Councilman Fonte. >> Um, counselors, any questions pertaining to this?
>> Seeing none, I'll entertain a motion. >> Oh, do you have a question? Do you have a question? No. >> Okay. >> Motion uh to send item 8226 to the full council with a favorable recommendation. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair. Is there second? >> Wait, I said 82. I meant 8126. 8126.
>> It's getting late. It's getting late. >> By the vice chair. Is there a second? >> Seconded by councelor the plant. Discussion. Seeing none. All those in favor say I. I. Any nays? Eyes have it. Thank you so much. We will see you 7th.
>> Appreciate I through you. I will be um on PTO that time and I will be signing someone for my staff member for our representation. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Um, next item we have item 82-26 reision of bond authorization
which is which are nine bonds totaling 9,821,827.98. And we have our treasurer and tax collector Pa Ortiz with us tonight for the item. Uh, Miss Ortiz, you have the floor. Good evening, councilors. Um,
Pearl Ortiz, city treasur collector, 200 Common Street. Um, I come before you with the um request to authorize to resin a total of nine projects totaling 9,821,827.98 to be exact. Um, this total consists of
uninsured portions of the amounts authorized to be borrowed under the loan orders of the city council adopted on the dates authorizing the issuance of bonds and the amount and purpose listed before you. Um, did you all receive the
documents with the list? Okay, perfect. Um, the identified total is no longer needed um for the projects for which they were authorized and therefore should be rescended. So these projects are all completed so no further borrowing should be issued.
>> Thank you council. Any questions or comments? >> Councelor Le. I'm sure we've done this in before in the past. I just don't remember doing it. >> Yeah. >> Is this Have we rescended bonds like this in the past? >> In my t in my tenure here, I have not
done it. Um I can't speak of when was the last time it was issued. Um as of right now our statement of indebt has grown tremendously. So I just >> say it again our statement of what >> of indebtness. So basic yeah so basically when um the either the
department head or in the past Markelloo would come before you to request authorization. Um it would create a list of projects that we were allowed to borrow on behalf of. Um, so I'm trying to basically um decrease that allowed
amount. Um, so identifying projects that are completed um so we can resend is kind of why I'm here tonight. I I >> this is I mean this is a great thing to do >> as you could imagine because not only does it help us um from a fiscal
stability but also when we go in front of um wouldn't um S&P so our rating agency um they see that you know our our amount to borrow has decreased or what's allowed to borrow has decreased. Granted this doesn't take into consideration any
future projects that you may authorize. No, I I I I take it in the spirit that was sent to us, which is a good news, is that, you know, we've we thought we were going to need to borrow certain dollar amounts on all of these, and >> what we paid for or we had to borrow
came a lot less. One of these does raise my eyebrows, though, and that's the boring roof replacement at the community Arlington school. And this one, the amount that was requested for bond was $3,800,000. >> Yeah. Um,
>> so >> we were we only borrowed 700,000 and 3.1 million weren't used. That seems like that seems like an outlier to me. So I I that one I I need a bit of an explanation. >> Yeah, I can definitely dive into some of the details pertaining to this, but my understanding is these are these are
projects that are also qualifiable for um mass through the mass um school >> I'm sorry, >> MSBA. >> The MSBA. Um so therefore they do fund a portion of the projects. Um I can pro I can put together some of the highlights
as to what percentage they were able to reimburse us for. >> The the point the point here is I I don't again I don't need to have the actual dollar amount that's not that important to me. It's the principle of what we're talking about that that's important to me. >> So the principle here is that we were able to get MSBA monies a decent amount
of money. you can probably throw me a number and and but but we just we didn't need to borrow as much because we got a funding source elsewhere which reduced that and that's good news. We can not have to put the the the bond and the the interest payment etc on the taxpayers's
back and put it in our budget every so I think that's good news that I think if you can just give me a ballpark of a number I'd be happy with that on on that one. How much did we get from MSBA on that one? >> We have that I I can give that to you. So this is this is an R project the like the ones we currently have. There are
three R projects. One of them being the um South Lawrence East. Yeah. We're replacing the roof there and the Arlington where we're doing the windows. So >> this is the same thing. It was for the uh roof and elevator at the North Common Education which is the old high school.
>> And again it was in our project. The the MSBA portion um the budget was 3.6 6 million but the actual was um 2.5. >> So the the MSBA when they do these
projects they come up with this estimate that doesn't always come you know at the same estimate amount. So the the project was estimated for 3.6 million from the MSBA and we got 2.5 bond proceeds. We
what we do is we authorize more than we think we need just to make sure we don't have an issue with cash flow. >> And then for this particular project we got um reimbured uh closer to
um 80%. Which is in line with what most uh M msba project especially our projects come in at. So this sheet here says community day Arlington and you mentioned the old high school. So is there is there an intersection as to why
the old high school and the community charter school are on on this item? >> So this particular uh case they were two projects going at the same time so they grouped them together. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I I think I'm happy with that. Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> Any other further questions or comments? one comment. Pearla, thank you as well for your work. I think you're nobody likes taxes. So, I think you're you have the most difficult uh department. So, thank you for holding down that fort for many years for the city.
>> Thank you all. Have a great evening. >> Um wait, wait. Have you voted yet? Now, I will entertain a motion uh for item 82-26. >> Motion to send to full counsel with a favorable recommendation. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair, seconded by the council president. Any
further discussion on the matter? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. >> We will see you April 7th. You're welcome. All right. This is the last new business item. Item 83-26.
Authoriz authorization to transfer $97,552 from free cash to account. Do you have the actual account name, KAF? because I just have the number.
>> Yes. So 5380 is the purchase services and what we do is >> Okay, hold on. So purchase services and the amount of So from that 97,552, $15,552 will go to purchasing services and then
the remaining amount 82,000 um is being requested to be transferred to what account? Capital, >> that's the veterans uh reimbursement account. >> Um the vet the veterans reimbursement account and >> on the agenda we have it as the account
numbers. So for >> the public yes >> to understand where exactly it's going um stating the the accounts and we have tonight our director of veteran services director Victor Ortega. Director you have the floor. >> Uh good evening counselors. uh Victor
Ortega, director of veteran services, 200 Common Street, the 15,552 to uh other purchases that is to cover the flags for Memorial Day. Uh per the state guidelines, we can only purchase
flags one time a year. Uh going back to how it was done in the past, uh it was the flags were purchases like in batches, different invoices. Uh and I just found out per the state they only reimburse one time only. So the reason
why we uh I added the invoice in the package. The reason we did one mass purchase at one time just to get full reimbursement back from the state which is uh 75% of that purchase uh is returning back to the state. So
>> thank you director. Any questions uh for director Ortega pertaining to these transfers? Seeing none, I will entertain a motion. Motion to send item 8326 to full counsel with a favorable recommendation. Motion
has been made by the vice chair. Is there a second? Seconded by councelor the plant. Discussion on the matter. Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. >> Any nays? The eyes have I just heard. Thank you.
director. >> Thank you, counselors. Have a good night. >> You're working. >> All right. Now, uh counselors, we're going to >> tabled matters. Is it? >> Um yes. >> Tabled matters. Next page. Um
under January 20th, 2026. Can I have a motion to untab item 7-26, approval of a tiff agreement between RG LLC and the city of Lawrence for property located at 470 Broadway?
>> Motion to table. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair, seconded by the council president. No discussion. Um, all those in favor say I. I. The eyes have it. Uh, we have Director McCarthy and the representatives from uh RG LLC. Director
McCarthy, I did see one of the things uh one of the the situation that we had prior was that not everyone not every member had all the documents. I did see that you sent that over. So, is everyone before we proceed, is everyone okay with that with the
documents they received? >> Um I know we had some concerns and questions >> last meeting. I'm gonna give you the floor to introduce um to reintroduce and and address the the committee. >> Yes. Good evening. Daniel McCarthy, uh
planning director with a office at 360 Mary Street. Um briefly the documents you have in front of you is a copy of the TIFF agreement. um a letter um addressed with some breakdown of the um
of the benefits to the to the project, a set of a 20page set of plans, and I recently provided you a copy of the spreadsheet with all of the tiff agreements that we've entered into over the last 30 years since the program's
been initiated. Um I think that was a major portion of the questioning uh was a a kind of a comparative um estimation of what um we've we've done in the past. I know some questions had come up about um the differences in the different
types of the uh projects and what tips were negotiated. Um as I mentioned at the last meeting uh the planning department does not negotiate these. the the developers come in with a plan of what they want to present to the city as
their as as their tiff. The uh projects range um uh greatly. You can see over the years that we the the state allows up to a 20-year um tax increment period. Um the unlike the TAI agreement which is
related to housing, there's a fixed uh limit on that. the tiff agreement is on is it for economic development and doesn't have the same um value. So that's why they're they're negotiated separately. And again, I don't uh negotiate these. I I'm presented with
these and I'm bringing them forward. I think you look at the value of the project and what it implies to each uh neighborhood. Um what it brings to the table. Um the the depth of the project. Is this just part of a of is it a
oneshot development or is it part of a bigger project? Those types of things go. Obviously, the number of jobs created is important. I know uh um um President uh Rodriguez pointed that out that uh in years we've we've dealt with
some of the projects that provided hundreds of jobs. But if you look at the spreadsheet, there's other ones that that I think have minimal amounts of of uh you know projects uh numbers um even down to providing just one job and we've
approved those in the past too. So, um I I'm I'm not here as an advocate on behalf of the applicant. They are here to explain their uh the project in the terms of the project and what it means to the city. I have with me Maria Alcantara who is one of the principles.
She's a manager of ARG LLC and I also have with Benny Guzman who's a family member um for for the principal who who are developing the project and they're both here to speak um about the uh the project itself. Um, I'm here to answer any questions you might have and uh and
so please do. Thank you. >> Thank you, director. Um, name and address for the record, please. >> Maria Alcantara, 38 fil 01843. >> Hello, Miss Alcantara. Um, I'm going to pause here. Counselor, do
you have any questions before we continue? >> Do you want to speak first? Just introduce yourselves. I know we had someone else. >> Oh, yeah, for sure. >> Um, name and address for the record, please. >> Yep. My name is Benny Guzman. I reside in 30 Elm Street in Muan, Mass. Uh, uh,
I represent Ray Services, one of the contractors, uh, a part of this development and the site. Uh well, I want to give you uh thank you for the opportunity so we can come here um asking uh to consider the Tiff for
that project and also I'm here to answer any question that you may have. >> Okay. So, counselors, any question any questions or comments? Councelor Marl, >> um I have several because I didn't get to ask the last time, so my apologies.
Um, is is this the first time that your company Yes. >> Um, do you have several companies or is this one of many? >> We we have several >> several. Okay. >> And this is the first time >> this will be the first tip that you are guys over the years of being in business
working in the city that you're requesting this assistance. >> Yes. >> Okay. Specifically for this project which physically I love it. It's beautiful. Um, I love mixed use. um allowing the opportunity to obviously for economic development within the
city. Um can this project move forward without the tiff assistance? >> I will say yes, but it will be difficult for us to continue. Um what we already did it was talk to the bank so they can hold on the principal so we can continue
develop the area and also work working inside to finish and outside. and the banker agreed to so to char only interest on the on the meantime and I don't know if going to be for a year or two but that will be something that will
help us to continue and and bring this project um like finish and be able so we can rent to start renting to the community. >> Okay. Um I I was reading and it says um
that it would assist with um a financial gap. Are you able to specify what what gap currently exists in order you know for >> well every time justify >> every every money that we use in the construction is a loan from the bank. So
um every time that we request a loan is interest paid the next day. And and if I may, so when we say gap, well, what you know, this is a collaboration with the bank obviously. So um
the idea is to stabilize one project and move on to the next one. So you know, we want to highlight that if we do have the support from the city here that we can bridge the gap and keep these projects moving at a greater pace. You know, uh truth be told, we've come this far off
of our own strength. you know, we have a proven track record and uh we've been doing this for a while. So, I us coming to the city for the first time. We're excited and so thank you. I think your name is Vivian, right? >> Thank you, Vivian. >> Council Marsh, but I'm like yes.
>> But yeah, the name is there. So, I just appreciate you guys and I had in that question that we have been doing this for a while. So, um yeah. >> Okay. Um, let me see. Hold on because I have a list of questions. So, I think you guys saw what happened
last meeting. Uh, myself and counselors of plan were part of another committee. We we heard a lot a lot of of the pitch and asked our questions. Um, >> but we were missing members some members are missing some of the documentation. So, it's kind of like doing this all
over again. So, just >> am I asking any repetitive questions? No, I think this is a whole different here for the last one. So, you can get a whole new perspective if you like. >> I'm not part of the economic development committee. So, please any questions you have go ahead um council.
>> Um so, okay. Um >> what return are you projecting and how does the t the tiff will will change that or is it just offsetting in terms of what you just mentioned? It's kind of like putting out fires um in terms of like it's based on loans. So, is the
tiff just to assist on the, you know, the challenges that come with the loans? >> Well, I will say yes. I I don't have uh right now um with me what is the the projection on the income, but it's going
like what we're doing right now is a 30 uh apartment unit. It's going to be rental. It's not a low income, but it's going to be with compatible rental um market in the city. So, and I just want to be clear, councelor Marmo, it's not
about um putting out fires. It's more of a again exping expediting this whole entire process here, right? So, with the bank, we have an agreement where we're going to stabilize and move on. this is just your assistance to kind of bridge that so that we can leapfrog this and
get this going at a a rapid pace if that makes sense. Right. >> My apologies for using the terminology putting out fires. It makes it sound like there's >> well you talk to the fire chief for like the last >> I also read um besides the 30
residential units, there's two commercial spaces. I love the the component in terms of a training facility. I I'm not sure if I saw something about a performing art. What did I read that wrong? Performing art. >> Yes, that is one of the plan I don't want to discuss too much about because
until it's not like finalized. >> So that's not set in stone. >> You could put like an auto zone there if you change your mind. Yeah, speaking to the fact it's 8,000 square ft of um leasable space >> because it's it's uh it's touching the heartstrings when you any anytime, you
know, developers want to mention youth, >> you know, it it touches the heartstrings of counselors because we're very pro- youth. So, I just want to, you know, so it's like >> tactic maybe, >> you know, don't don't try to butter me
up with the >> No, no, no. At the moment, at the moment, that's the plan. And I've been doing like as some of you uh console know me. So I've been doing training since 1998. I love to train. So I've been doing construction training and
also cosmetology. >> That's what the that's the for like the foreseeable plan is to train in construction. >> Not necessarily but we want to expand another area like it uh perform. So, we have a lot of idea, but I I won't say
yes until it's done, but that's the plan. >> Okay. All right. >> She she still has the floor. >> I'm I'm all set for now. Council President, >> thank you, Madam Chair. A couple of things that I have u I I was u wanted to
ask. Um so far, based on the years that I have on the council, I have voted on two tiff. One of them was uh to Unitech and the other one to Hodrick. >> I'm sorry. Say the other one. >> Uh so far while I'm being in the uh been a council for 10 years going into my 11
years, I have bought it on two different tip tiff uh which is one of them was to Unitech uh and South Lance and the other one was to uh Heldendrick brothers Marxree. Both of them have one particular thing
and is to create jobs. this program specifically is to for the creation of jobs what you're applying to. Uh even though you're going to have maintenance personnel and and uh and people that are going to be working there potentially, this is not an
economic development project. This is a housing project. This is a you creating apartments that are going to be uh market rate apartments. And for that specifically, we have a TE TIE program, which is a five years uh tax incentive
program, which is the proper program for you guys to uh take advantage of. I have no issues whatsoever approving the five years uh tie uh project uh program on this project but I wouldn't be in support of any other due to the fact
that if we approve this uh as a tiff we are not being true to ourselves saying that we are creating job and this project is not to create job it's to create housing it may if I may so a lot
of our a lot of our workforce is is local folks right the carpenters you see the plumbers the electricians they come from Lawrence so that in itself is creating jobs and then to highlight there are businesses coming and I I know you highlight the residential end of this but there are businesses going in
and there's further buildings that we plan on uh developing and so those will those as well will have businesses so even though we you know um highlight that 15 our projection is way beyond on the 15th because like you said there's a workforce, there's a staff that maintains this building, garbage
disposal, um snow removal, all these things that apply. >> Yeah. But I mean the thing is >> in a permanent and in a permanent one that comes through the businesses as well that we plan on putting there. Our idea is not to just build these buildings and let them rest. I feel as though 550 lofts our neighbor missed an
opportunity to create a nice hub where they put delies where they put businesses in there where the kids can work as starting minimum wage jobs. We plan on doing that here. >> At the end of the day, you're creating a 30 unit apartment. >> Yeah, but that's a misuse. >> Let him talk.
>> We won't be able to have a conversation that way. >> Council president because I mean keep on going that way. It's not going to happen. >> Council, >> at the end of the day, you're creating a 30 unit apartment building. That's the 90% of the space. You have five floor, right? >> Four floors.
>> Four floors. Three of them are apartments. One of them is commercial. You're gonna rent that place. You're not creating jobs. You're renting it to someone else that is going to create jobs. Then what happened?
The TIE agreement all it's is designed for this and the city of Lawrence is provide that many time for different developers that are creating housings housing and that's exactly what you're doing here. you have
a mixeduse unit uh mixeduse uh building that create the majority of the space if I go by the floor 75% is is is housing. So, I need to go with what I have in front of me, which is basically you're
creating a building. You're building a building that is 75% that goes with one specific program, which is the TIE, and 25% of the of the uh of the building
that go with the TIF. But it's not like you're going to you're going to have a company there. They're going to create job there. You're going to rent that place to someone else that he going to come over. That's what we've been getting. Yes, you're going to rent that out.
>> No, we never say rent it out. It's going to be a business. It's going to be owner occupy. But the question that I answer was, I'm not going to say yes to the to the whole project as a youth. But once
it's done, I I don't want to promise something that I I don't even know if I'm going to be alive tomorrow. But yes, the plan is to develop um training and also doing other things for the youth. And right now with the LTS Academy with
only one program, it has eight employee from the city of Lauren. So if we add more training, we can have more more um employee. We can bring more employee and more jugs available. But let me tell you
something. Um like many say it's not that we're going to have someone to clean and and put the trash. We need a secretary. We need resectioning. We need assistant. We need teacher. So that will comes with that once it's done. We got to finish the the the the third floor,
the three floor that's going to be residential and then we're going to focus on the commercial space. But we never mentioned that we're going to rent it out. >> Okay. Let me ask you a question. What is going to be the value of that building once uh once it it's finished?
>> Um I will say it's between six and 7 million. >> Okay. Out of that we have a a rate specifically in Lawrence for commercial and residential. I will say a little over 20% a little under 20%
is the rate for commercial. We can figure that one out. Uh looking at it online, if I give you a T of 15 years, a tax incentive for 15 years, basically the city of Lawrence will be
paying for those 15 jobs that you're creating. And this is not the intent of that program. The intent of that program is not for the city of Lance to pay the employee that you're going to be creating the pay the employ and the the people that you're going to be hiring.
This is not the intent of the program. The intent of the program is to have a company that come over to create jobs. And if it is housing and then we have another program that incentivize the developers with a five years incentive which is basically I was looking into
the data because I said I going to treat this uh fairly based on the boat that I have taken the past. The boat that I have taken the past for Tiff one is for Heldendrick brothers which create hundreds of Ys
over $100,000 jobs each for W for welders and the other one unit that create over 200 jobs that is a a a more less uh educated trade but create a lot of job in the
city of Lawrence. Those are the two that I have voted and I think that the city actually had approved have approved since 2019 all the way to 2026. Those are the only two that we have approved and those are
a that's a program to create a spec to create jobs economic development job. This is not this is a housing 75% of the space is for housing. We have a program for that. I I think it's because you're just fixated on the on the one building, the
one project, but you're not looking at the whole development as a whole. >> I can't because it's not in front of me. I can't develop I can't give you a top a tax incentive based on a vision. I can't my
constituents gonna ask me I have a dream and they gonna tell me give me a tiff because it's not about what you what you want to do in the future. I need to evaluate in a base by base situation
what I have in front of me if a tiff is given and trust me when I told you not every project come in front of the council to ask for a tiff. You guys haven't done that before and you guys have bunch of projects >> and we're excited to be here. Just so you know. Yeah.
>> No, no, no. I agree. >> Truth be told, this is this is the first we come we have a proven track record of creating hundreds and hundreds of job in this city. >> But it's not Yes, I agree with you. But it's not like we because I mean also that that also bring revenue to you
guys. It's not like you you know what I mean? It's it's it's a it's a it's a win-win situation. >> Yes. Some of the tape that they've been given to the project on Merry Master Street, it was with the future what they promised that they're going to bring to the city. >> Well, let me tell you something. I'm
glad that you brought that up. I have only approved one on Mary Murray because a lot of people have talked about the Mary Mry and I have approved only one because during my time in the council since 2015 that's the only one that I
have in front of me and it was not a traditional one it was to the Hendrick brothers that is a completely different company that what people mention or think when they mention Mar Street it was not to the La company that was way
before my time and during that time the city have a specific economic development goals and that's why they give e economic development incentive to motivate that that specific area or any specific area around the city. What I'm
saying is I can't open that that uh that situation that we're gonna provide a tiff to any mixeduse development. The city, you just you just saw it.
You just saw the the the firefight department asking them asking us for money because they are on their budget. They need more personnel. You just were the weakness of that because we have services that we need to provide. It's
not like we the city of Lens is we are 76% dependable of state fund and federal fund. All those fund that you saw today today that you were witness of it was
there were grants coming to the city and there were also a budget that we're going to have to finance and also a rescending of a loan that potentially we cannot afford because that's why we didn't take that loan for $9 million.
So it's it's it's a situation that in a couple of years and I I keep on telling people people don't want to believe that but in a couple of years the city of Lawrence might go down down down might go with a downfall when it comes to finance
and we have an impression that the city is doing good. Guess what? The ARPA funds provide the city of Lu with $58 million. The previous administration left the city with $17 million. This administration find the city with $73
million on the on the bank and it's not a joke. It's there is is is information that is available to the public. But the administration keep on saying, "Oh, we has been the most successful administration for years." No, they find the city with $73 million.
William Antigua when he was the mayor, he found the city with $27 million on the negative on the negative different than this administration. It is a it is a situation that we've been dealing with that we believe that we are
in a good shape. We I personally cannot trust me on a a mixeduse development. I cannot give a t a tiff >> right >> for 15 years. I can definitely vote in favor of a tie
because it's a mixeduse development for housing that 75% of your building is housing. I can un more than fable to give a t a te tip we follow
>> which is a five years tax incentive I'll say 95% of the developments in Lawrence do not get this program 95% of the development in the city of Lawrence do not get this program not
many in the last three years I will said we have approved probably three or four years we have approved probably five or six of those program but not many not everybody is looking for that and I'm glad that you guys are
here to look for that because I'm happy to provide that incentive to a company like yours that has been in Lawrence for such a long time >> I want >> you guys deserve it >> I want to take this opportunity to also
um it's a little It's on topic but also off topic as as well. But because you're already in front of me, I do want to take this opportunity to express um you did hear a budget review session
and um you did hear about the the needs within one of our one of our biggest emergency personnel uh emergency services department for f I know there are more projects down the line. Um, for the future, I
hope you take what you heard today into consideration when you are planning your your future projects because I know, Maria, I am your district counselor and the calls that I get within our districts about public safety and the the the the
necessities of my constituents, a lot of it is difficult because we're we're underfunded or understaffed. And that's why we're seeing a a growing um growing quality of life situations because of
that because we are and we're growing as a city. So I'm just going to leave you with that for the future. >> Council Fonte, I want to respond to >> please. >> And I I appreciate that and we we have a wonderful relationship with the fire department, the chief, um all the inspectors. We invite them, we encourage
them to come over to see our projects cuz they're going to be the ones, god forbid, in there, right? And so we want them to be familiar with the building. Right. >> Right. Yeah. I'm just >> I know we're talking about this project right now, but um I think when we do have developers in front of us and you
hear different point of views from the counselors, I don't think they they fully understand where these are these concerns or these questions are coming from. And I'm glad that you did hear some of it um beginning of this meeting
so that you can really see and hear the actual necessity that we deal with every day as your counselors. >> We appreciate it. >> Well, thank you for your will. I appreciate but I I want to answer to Mr. uh Council Giovanni. I know you're
concerned about job creating in the city of Laring but you know us for a long time and we are one of the bigger uh company that hire like 80% 90% employee
from Lawrence and between uh 1994 um and 2020 2022 we used to give out more than 200 W2 in one and more than 80% were um people from
Ling Ling resident and we still like that. >> I agree with you. >> I agree with you 100% to you. I agree with you 100%. >> But this project, this project which is what we have in front of us is a housing project. 75% of the building is for
apartments. >> Okay. And the program that is related to the housing is a TIE not a TE. >> And the difference between the two is that the TIE only the TAI >> the TIA agreement
>> the TIA agreement is a five years five years T incentive. The the TI agreement is up to 20 years as incentive. The TIF agreement is for for economic development. the tie agreement is for
housing. 75% of your project is for housing >> and then eventually what's going to happen is that and and I going to just release the floor in a second. Eventually what's going to happen is that every project that is housing and
mixed use of housing and an open space that could be rented, they might come and say, "Look, we're going to create 10 jobs, 15 jobs. given give us 15 years of of of tax incentive then we the city of Lawrence will ended
up paying for those jobs essentially if you do the math. >> May May I >> Sure. >> Um is is there a business or however you want to put it more important than a school than creating jobs and workforce development?
Is there is there I don't know of a business out there that's more important than creating jobs? So I mean just based off of the infrastructure having 15 to 30 employees is mute when you're creating hundreds and thousands of jobs through the folks that you have passed
through the school right I mean this in of itself is the most critical piece and when you have Lawrence citizens you know that I think someone this is a travel city they come in they they leave but they can leave here educated with a better opportunity coming through one of
our schools. I mean to me this is like the existential idea of what is creating jobs. So I don't know. >> Yeah. I know and and and I potentially agree with what you said. But the project that I have in front of me is
75% housing. >> I I don't see how you can deny that's the project you have. >> No, no, no, no. The thing is is that the project that we have in front of me um the project that I have in front of me is 75% housing. It is not on a school. >> Yeah.
>> It's 75% housing. >> It's also 9,000 square feet of business, though. >> I just want to bring up u one other issue. Um I know that um I know that you said you you've only voted on two. You've actually voted on three. There's one that's not on here.
>> Ah, but it's not on the one that you provide. Your fault. Blame it on She Esparanza. She mu then because if you didn't provide that information she mu >> Espiranza academy was granted a >> okay then she mu for not providing that espiran academy is in a school
>> well this is the document I was provided so but that was another situation and I came down and I made an argument that economic development is more than just providing individual jobs economic de development for a city is is providing a future of jobs as well and that was my
argument for the espironza academy. So I just want to point that out that there is a precedent for this and and you no no by by all means uh through you Malenia by all means >> and you are absolutely right with Esperansal Academy
is an institution that educate young woman in the city of Lawrence that is purchasing a building that is purchasing a building with the only purpose of a school. That's the difference. If you present to
me in front of me an school that is going to be that is going to be or a building that is going to be just an school and not 75% housing and then we can definitely talk about the tiff because on this case we have a tie
agreement because it's 75 is it's a tiff agreement that is a 75% housing. It's a mixeduse development, >> but I think you're fixated more on the like property, like the the
spage of the property where whereas >> the volume the the the amount of folks that you can put into that space to educate offsets the 75% every day of the week. >> Yeah. But the thing is you need to understand >> the 75% the value you're adding to this
it just doesn't it's not >> doesn't make sense. >> Yes. because of the reporting portion of it is also a huge huge huge part of the program >> when we when you said on that on that um
on that tiff agreement you're going to create thousand of jobs because that's what are the amount of people that are going to pass by that school >> that's the expectation if you not fulfill that and then you are at fault >> but that's our track record though
>> huh >> we we've proved proven that already >> but I mean not in but it you cannot ask me for a tax incentive for the next 15 years based on the on the last 15 years of what you have done >> because we are not having we have a 75%
uh apartment building in front of us we are we are g we are we are giving you an incentive of on the on the apartments >> when only the first portion of it is going to be econ economic
development that we don't know what what is it that you're going to do on the first floor. >> Okay. So, this is what I'm going to do. Um, we're going to we're going to halt it right here. I don't I don't I don't want I don't I want to know I want I want to know if councelor the plant has
something to add to the topic or something additional and then we will go around for a second round of questioning and comments um if needed. Councelor DeLant. >> Thank you. Uh Mr. McCarthy. Mr. McCarthy,
>> this tax financing, this tax increment financing agreement. Who did you author that? Who who who wrote this document? >> Um I believe uh Jakari Yoa did it from >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question, please? I was asking who who drafted
this document the agreement >> this is this is a form that we have I did not draft this now >> is is it a city form it's a form that was provided by the state >> okay that's fine just one small thing and I'm going to talk about something
more significant >> we don't have a Broadway street in Lawrence there's no such animal as Broadway street is littered with Broadway street and and if you put that in an official document there is No Broadway Street. >> Are you sure? Hold on. Are you sure this is provided by the state? Because if be
very careful. >> Mhm. >> Because this this this is we're talking about government right now. If this was provided by the state, there would be some indicator that it is an official state document. >> It is not an official state document.
>> Okay. >> Mr. >> So who drafted this? >> It was provided. It's it's Dan, >> it's a form it's a form we've been using for for decades. >> It's a it's an agreement that I've I've I've gone over this with the Department
of of Education of uh economic development. They work with us on these. They provide these. This is the same form that was given to the Hellidge Brothers. This is the same form that was filled out. It's identical to the Hellfish Brothers uh application. So when you say the office I apologize uh
councelor Lena you've been waiting but when you say department of economic you mean the state's department or >> executive office of economic development >> understood thank you councelor the plant >> yeah thanks so to Mr. agree with me. So there's one of my small pet peeves is
that we've taken streets and started calling them different names. Now people are all of a sudden are calling it Broadway Street. We don't have a Broadway street. We just have a Broadway. So it's a small but important detail in the document that it should not be Broadway Street. It should be >> 530 Broadway.
>> I see. >> Period. That's it. >> Small small thing, but I I hear it all the time now. I'm like, where did this come from? Who why how did this become a thing? And I just it just drives me crazy. So >> real close. >> So if that's the only thing that drives me
>> I didn't create the Broadway. I I don't know. You'll have to go back. But that's just the way it is. >> Um >> Broadway, right? Um okay. So to the more important I mean that's important, but to the more important part of it. I'm
not sure through you. I'm not sure if you heard some of the comments. I was talking earlier with the fire department and part of if you heard this part of the issue that I' that I'm having and I think it's one of the the most significant issues that's facing our city today I would I I hate to classify
things but it's got to be in the top three. It's housing. It's housing in our city. Not housing that we don't have enough. The complete opposite. We have too much housing in our city. And what I was talking to the fire department here
is there's There's housing that's lawful and that are permitted and there's no doubt in my mind this will if we if this passes and you go forward and you build it, this will be lawful and permanent housing. I'm convinced of that. >> But we also have a lot of unlawful,
unpermitted, illegal apartments throughout our city. And and this is not your issue. This is our issue as a city until we get a handle on our housing in our city. Not only do
we have unlawful apartments, we have a lawsuit against us as we speak, saying that the Lawrence Redevelopment Authority wants to want to take advantage of all these parcels and then bulk of them are going to be used for housing, more housing. Winter's not that
far away. I got a ton of phone calls from people saying I had no place to park. I got a ton of phone calls saying my my my roads weren't weren't weren't plowed through. I have not forgotten that. I'm not and I'm not going to forget that. >> So, it's an issue. Unfortunately, you're here in front of us and what you're
trying to do is you want to get an incentive or ask us to provide an incentive to create more housing. Um, I'm not I don't think that we need to provide incentive. I think the economic environment is so it's flourishing so much
>> that that individuals and companies have are are doing things and not needing this and and still making a ton of ton of money and the and the and the numbers prove that out because we have a spike. So where I stand again, I don't know
much about your business or the stuff you've done in this city, but from all from what I'm what I'm learning and what I understand is that you have a good reputation in our city. We've done a lot of good things in our city and you're a successful businessman business business couple. So, but I'm not going to be able
to support incentivizing more housing when we don't have as a city with housing, with police, with calls for service, with trash pickup, all the things that are required, parking, it goes on and on. I can I cannot do it. If you said to me, "We're just going to
deal something with non-housing and we're trying to create more jobs like the stuff you're talking about." I think I could be on board for that. I have been in the past. I think I could do that again. But when you bring when somebody, not you, anybody, brings in housing >> immediately. I'm like, "No, this is not
the time. We cannot be incentivized in this. Not right now." >> May I because I think you I think you were super clear um >> in in in your words. you you also differentiate in you know legal lawful housing and the unlawful housing and and
you know I I get your I get your passion I get where you're coming from but I think to be clear I mean you should be all for >> legal housing and and creating a safe appropriate environment and like I said had said earlier you know 550 I feel as though they they missed the boat they
missed a great opportunity there where they could have created a nice development there where they had businesses and they they created an environment where you people can be proud of and you know it was just an idea of what Tusken Village but not Tuskcen Village you know what I'm trying
to get at right that's kind of our vision and in all of this you know not losing sight that it's appropriate it makes sense it's needed whether you know people are living in basements or they're living in a nice safe well-maintained uh uh piece of property it makes a huge
difference it adds value it >> it's what you want for the city right >> there's a difference there's a as to affordability and I mentioned that earlier. It's not that there's in the city of Lawrence. And to council the
plant's point, we're the ones getting the calls from your neighbors, from people that deal, too. We're with you. We're with you in the battle cuz we plow. We do it all right. I know. I know you are, but let's not let's not lose sight in two order, council president. I can't hear two people talking at the same time. I believe I want to You had
the floor. I want you to say >> Thank you. Um, so the issue at hand that we're having in Lawrence that we get emails about, phone calls about when we're out in the community, I'm telling you, there's not one day when I'm out on the community
that I'm not hearing about housing. And it's not that they can't find housing, it's that they can't afford our housing. And that's that's a big difference that that we're seeing. And when we had um what were the brothers name that we had before us? Um
>> Trey Hill. >> The Trey Hill brothers. When we had the Trey Hill brothers in front of us, um I mentioned to them, well, I mentioned in that discussion that every development project that has come before for the not
every majority um has been market rate housing and that adds on to the already over capacity o the already calls the overflowing calls that we that we get in emails that we get as counselors.
now and that's how that's apartments now in an area like our district south that has that that has more single families. I know you guys you live in my district. However, you're you are your time is
mainly occupied by your businesses. So when I get families that are at home most of the time dealing with the inconveniences of our rapidly growing community, that's also another headache for us. And we don't we don't have the
answers to give them because our city is growing but the foundation of our city keeps sinking. So it's great that and this is something that I say to every develop developer. It's great to have a vision. It's great to have um
growth and economic development if it makes sense in certain in certain areas of the city. And however, what they're not visualizing is we're we're we're thinking about the moment. We're thinking about the the return on investment for a project, but you guys
eventually with us are going to suffer the consequences of the city's foundation sinking when we're not attempting to the overall the city overall, if that makes sense. Um, and
I think a a lot of a lot of the hesitation um that you hear from this committee is that it's not it's it's not who's in front of us. It's not um it's not it could be about the project, but it's the overall bigger picture.
>> We're trying to do the right thing. >> That's correct. >> No, I I made my point. I'm I listen to what Mr. Gman had to say, so I'm all set. He knows where I am. I know where he's from. We're good. >> Uh, >> any other um Yes.
>> Well, I'm want to thanks again like I say at the beginning and I want to answer to council Giovanni Rodriguez. Uh like he mentioned at the beginning that you did your homework before you come today. Obviously you did. So my question
to you is if will be the opposite that we do 75% job created and 25% residential will you consider that for the t >> uh council president >> just a question
>> if it is a mixed use >> yes like 75% >> I I'll u I'll stick to the point that u uh the tiff are for jack creations and if Um, if at some point I need to
evaluate that project, I need to see how incentive how how much of incentive that's going to bring to the city to for me to be able to make a determination. In the in the meantime, so far I have approved
uh now three tiff because one was for academy and the other one was for the Haldri Brothers and Unitech. Those two specifically were specifically for job creation
and uh the experience academy wasn't specifically for a free uh free zero tuition uh girls school that has been uh going through a uh a massive fundraising to be able to
raise over $30 million for that school. And that was the uh the little offer that the city provide to that project specifically. But that was the that was the that's the intentions. That's what they building right now. Um if it is a 25% housing and
75% job creation, I will I will definitely go through every every possibility of jobs. if it is stiff, if it is a tie, by all means because ties are for housing. Uh and that's how the the that uh how that we
have approached that in the city of Lawrence and my last 10 going into 11 years on the council. So I just trying to be consistent and fair to be honest with you. uh and like I said not every jobs not not every
development uh is actually it's been a word this program before uh that's that's the reality of the uh of our situation >> one last thing sure
>> um to answer um councelor um Stephanie I know that mentioned the cost of living Um, how much cost to rent an apartment? I'm going to talk not for myself, but I'm going to talk like my nephew. He
bought a house a few years ago. He's he's maybe 30 years old. And he called me a few months ago telling me that his mortgage went up like 2,000. And he was, "Thea, the what happened?
What happened?" Well, let me see. Okay. So, the property tax went up. So, when the interest in the property tax hits the owner, they hit the the rent payment. So, I understand that. But more
the people pay property taxes. It's killing more the residential and people that pay rent. >> Thank you. >> Just answer that. C >> you see >> thank you >> through you madam chair >> thank you Maria um for your for your
explanation council president >> that's a great example when we actually in November we take a vote not in July when there is a a a voting season for the budget or June not during that time
in November we take a vote and we know what we do you know what we We actually collect or make a summary of every taxes that we're going to charge to the city
and we decide on the next year on the ne we take a vote for the next year's uh distribution of taxes >> tax levy. >> We do a distribution of taxes. That's why we got to be careful with these programs because you guys are
getting an incentive, but that doesn't mean that the taxes that you produce as a new construction, that doesn't mean that we're not charging it. It's a misperception of that. We do charge that as a new construction or we
we put that amount of money and said okay the city of LR's growth on the new construction by $3 million that new construction is distributed through everybody throughout the city of Lars everybody.
And that's how we do we make a determination as of who is going to be paying the rate that we talk about on residential which is over under 10%. And also the commercial which is under 20 but we don't leave one penny behind
at all. This incentive we gave it to anybody that requested based on the project base we charge it to your nephew. >> We do. >> We know the city of Laroo. I appreciate that and no value. >> You know the thing is like this is why we got to be careful with these programs
because we do charge it for everybody to everybody else >> and people don't know. >> Thank you counselor. Um as you were saying that something came up in my head that hasn't been um asked or discussed yet.
This project is is already being constructed. Correct. Mhm. >> So my question is or I don't know I don't know what the process this might be a pro procedural question I don't know but why is why is
a request being made now and not before construction started? It's a great question, but it's kind of in mute because we can't base it off of vision, but we our agreement with the bank what we had mentioned earlier because they're going to collect interest because they believe in the vision as well is we
stabilize this building, we get funding for the next building. We stabilize that building, we get funding for the next building. We have projected at least three maybe four renovations on this site project on this property. The YWCA, we're going to expand them. We're going to make them grow because they're
they're on board. They love what we're doing. Eventually, we want to put a parking garage. Um, I don't know what you guys have in your hand, so I can't speak to it, but truth be told, in 5 10 years, you're going to see that and you guys are going to think of this moment because we're going to make this happen.
And we want you guys to be a part of it through this tiff. Cuz truth be told, it just expedited all of this for us. And the job creations, whatever number they gave you, it's like exponential times to the power of 100. >> Thank you. At this point,
>> we want to do it the right way to your point as well. Um, at least to the best of our ability. >> Thank you. >> You have another question? >> Coun Council Mar. >> Um, I feel like they've made I I I feel
stuck right now because I feel like they're making good points and often times when we go to different cities and towns, we're like, well, why can't Lawrence have this? Why can't Lawrence have that? Um so um you know hearing your vision it's like damn you know this
oh I'm so sorry. Um it's like these are the things that we we want our residents to like you know when I started as counselor the first thing I said is I w I want people to come to Lawrence. I I'm sick and tired of like, yeah, it's fun to go to New Hampshire, you know, every
now and then, but it's like, why is it that, you know, the the Lawrence residence doesn't have what, you know, the Tuscin village and, you know, Lynfield Market. It's like we could have our own version of that and um I've always thought that Lawrence had the
potential to have that. Um, so I guess for any future projects, I also feel conflicted in terms of, well, why is it that developers aren't um I get the return investment when it comes to the residential stuff? I
understand because I'm in that world as well, >> but it's like the city needs parking garages as well. And I just I'm I'm imploring you guys considering the years of service that you guys have in this business. like please like the if you
guys really are taking into consideration as to what the city needs. It needs a parking garage. Um so if that's something that you guys could kind of put a pin as like a you know star it star in our email flag that red flag.
>> God bless you because that this would help that would help. But let me se okay but I want to segue into you know I pride myself in making decisions of like you know if I'm going to say yes to it it's because it it went you guys fall
according to being able to receive this tiff. So my question is directed to our council president and I I kind of open up the discussion for others to chime in um in educating me. So, council
president, you said the tai is for housing, tiff is for economic development. So, for properties that are mixed use, where it's a combination of both for a tiff, is there anything within the language that a property has
to have a minimum of x, y, and z units of housing? >> Director McCarthy question >> or or Yeah. Yeah. Director McCarthy, then >> for them to qualify for the TIFF, >> if you look at if you look at the >> if you look at the sheet in front of
you, the um >> do they do do they fall >> some of the more recent projects? >> Do they qualify to receive this tiff? And if so, does the tiff have anything within their language that says that they have to develop, you know, the scope of the work has to consist of a
minimum of x amount in residential and a minimum of x amount in the there's no language there's no language specifying the the the the spread on how much. >> So we have to define what economic development is. So we have each project.
>> Correct. So, we have actually passed TIFF agreements for projects that were 100% housing. No, the job creation was two or three jobs maintaining the building. Um, we gave a 15-year
um tiff to 282 Max Street, 350 Marmax Street, and 250 Mary Street. One of those buildings is >> No, before you do that, why year? What year? counselor. >> Councelor, >> that was in 2010, 2010, and then 2023.
>> So, it went >> 2023 was not a a Wait, wait, wait, wait. >> Clarification. >> Mhm. 2023. It was not a tiff. >> It was a tie. It was a tie. You see, you miss in you you
>> counselor. Guys, let's pause. Sure. You're creating confusion because people going to believe that we have done this before. >> I'm reading from the the the spreadsheet. >> All right. So, let's backtrack. 2023. >> So, the answer is you don't need any. >> It was not a tiff.
2023. >> Okay. 2023 wasn't a a tiff. You're explaining, director McCarthy, that within the language of a tiff, there are no specific requirements in the language as to what determines a uh economic development project.
>> That's correct. >> Okay. And this is something that we were to look it up, we will we can cross reference what you're saying tonight with reading that online. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Council Marmal. No, this was I wanted to open up to like anyone else
that had that's knowledgeable regarding the tiff and the ties. Um so if any of my colleagues have uh experience in approving tiffs, was it ever discussed in terms of um the scope of the work had to be of a certain
way in order for them to qualify? >> Three. >> I don't know if that makes if I'm speaking in a way where it makes sense what I'm asking. >> Three. I'm going to I'm going to first look at councelor Llata to see cuz he hasn't spoken as much. Do you have any It's okay if you don't if you're good.
>> I just I just can't remember. >> Okay. >> All the days I >> council your your mic is off. >> My mic is off and that >> um I I just don't recall. I see a bunch of Marramax ones for example. Um I know that there's the mayor Riverwalk is at
that time but according to the spreadsheet these things were voted on in 2008 >> according to the spreadsheet so um >> so you don't recall >> that's the bottom line >> council council president >> well uh to madam chair I will I will tell you the relationship between a tie
and a tiff if a tiff within the five a five years period of tax incentive I'm more than happy with that you know why because now we combining what is for economic development and what is for housing with
the specific of the tax incentive that is on the benefit of that applicant but is also on the uh on the on the hands of everybody else in the city of Lance. So if we combine the two projects because
it's a mixeduse uh a mixeduse project what we can do is do a combination of both doing a modified tiff with a five years benefit and different incentive on the specific amount that going to be
that is going to be deductible deducted or benefit for the applicant. So a tie agreement is well defined on the schedule. It's a five years with a specific percentage to be uh adopted. We don't get to define that those that
schedule of the of uh of discount taxes on the tiff agreement. We do the tiff agreement. We have the ability to negotiate with the with the other party to be able to get into a specific a specific amount that is going to benefit
the project for economic development. If uh we get into a point that we said okay let's do a five years agreement which is that uh the common the common uh the combination of uh or the the common
denominator of both both programs and then a negotiation around the scheduling of the of the benefit. I'm more than happy with that. Independently how we we uh independently on how we uh we come up
with the numbers. I have no problem whatsoever. As a matter of fact, to be honest with you from the getgo, I keep on saying I'm on the I'm on the on favor of providing a tax incentive. The difference we have on the two pro on the
two programs is the timing. The the Tiff is all the way up to 20 years. The tie is up to five years. If we do a tie or a tiff for five years, I'm more than happy with that. >> 100%.
>> Um, councelor Marmal, so you asked asked the question, you got your colleagues to respond. How are you good because you still you have you have the primary floor. >> Okay. Um, from what I'm from what I'm hearing and
the responses that there was no clear-cut clarity in terms of it just the way I'm understanding is there is no language um and we're using our discretion when we make these
decisions cor if I'm not mistaken you know um okay I just again I just wanted to make sure that if there was specific language where they they do qualify for a tiff like I just want to make sure we're not
arguing whether they qualify or not. You know, if the language states that the the scope of the work, you know, minimum in order for them to qualify for a tiff is that they only need one commercial space. Um then, you know, I just I didn't want to get into like the nitty-gritty of arguing whether they
qualify or not. Um cuz council president you did mention that due to um the fact that the work consisted of the majority of of it included residential >> 35% three three floor three out of
>> but the language itself doesn't necessarily dictate that it has to be less than that or more than that it just >> well to be honest with you what you mad chair u to be honest with you what I'm seeing is based on what I have approved in the past is that the tiff is for
creating jobs. The program is designed to create jobs. Whether or not they have the the loophole within the law, we're not here to play loopholes. We here to represent the the constituents that actually going to pay those taxes because the tax incentive we're given
are going to be paid by someone else by the rest of the community. And that's on every aspect. If we have like I said we have when we have new development it's not that the new development is going to pay taxes on the amount of no that is distributed within
and that's the vote that we take on November uh that we distributed the taxes based on commercial and based on residential but every taxes need to be distributed under and trickle down into people's into people's uh pocket like
essentially >> so that's basically what what I seen Um, and also my my my thinking behind the whole thing around the TE is that if the value of that property going to be $6
million and we providing 90% taxing tax incentive for three years, they only going to pay 10% of the taxes that they are supposed to be paying and the rest of it is going to be paying by the the rest of the community. That's
the reality of the tax incentive. That's why we need to be careful that at least we producing jobs when it comes to the TIFF agreement. At least we're producing jobs to supplement the other taxes that we are not acquiring by the uh the
development itself. We do want economic development but not to a point that we're going to have to we're going to pay for those jobs at the end of the 15 years. >> Okay. So, at this point, we're getting repetitive on uh each counselor's point of view. I think we we've made each of
us have made um our comments and and our questions um very clear. One thing that has been brought up though is the the timing, the length. And I do want to hear from you guys whether the last time
this was in front of us, um I forget her name, your partner Jaka. Jakira was very um adamant of of the length for the for the tax incentive um and she gave her her proposal on it and and and her pitch
on it. Um but now we have two different members of the comm of the of the business and I would like to hear your point of view on this specific um comment or concern I should say. Well, I don't want to add anything else to
everything was already told. Uh but I will say even I'm more sure that in less than a year we're going to create the parking lot than creating 50 jobs um
opportunity uh for 70 because that is something that we know that we need as an employee as a um like we come every day to on Broadway. So that that is the plan and in 516 the plan is to um do a
remoderation so the YWCA can expand and we're going to do some kind of like a small business space in order to do that. That's that is why we came to ask for the Tiff going back to um
Mr. President Rodriguez. So what we're doing is cuz I I don't want to continue this this >> I I just have a question if you say like okay let's do five year >> and I know as mentioned before that it
doesn't say it has to be 50% 25% but also it doesn't mention how many job need to be. So it is a you decision when you say yes or you will say no but if you say like let's see five year x
amount and then gradually go up it will be appreciate but >> can you repeat that again >> counselor >> I wasn't able to understand >> go ahead >> can you repeat that again very quick >> okay you um I say the it doesn't mention
if how many job we need to create as far as job creating Obviously more that we create is going to be more insensitive for you to approve based on what you say. But the other the other thing is it doesn't say how how what percent of the
property need to be for job um opportunity. If you uh consider it today to approve five year and then going gradually we we are not here to ask for 20 year. We are not here to ask for 10 year. We are here to
answer request that we as a resident and also employee in the city uh in this community that we thinks that we need to to be here in order to be heard and to get the opportunity. We cannot get the opportunity sitting in the house or in
the office and let the happen. So we doing what we need to do in order to to ask this request. Thank you. >> Thank you Mariam. So what I'm if I'm hearing this correctly and I correct me if I'm wrong are you proposing this
committee are you're saying that you are okay with a tiff agreement of five years for now? >> Yes. >> And then to come back to this board if needed to negotiate the next 5 years. >> Yes. >> I don't know what I don't Yeah. I don't
know how that works procedural wise. I don't >> Yeah. the way that it could be made by a friendly amendment if it's everybody's in and willing. Uh I think that's the proper procedure. The um the way tips
are set up, they're usually um very heavy in the front because that's the time period where the investment is is is mostly uh tenuous and as later on as you establish the tiff goes down. Um I I had the last meeting I had
recommended when we discussing going to 10 years taking the the last five years off but uh they stuck with it. Um I think a good compromise I think because there is a commercial investment here as well that if it was a fiveyear at the same rates that we're seeing now uh that
might be a compromise that would be suit everybody. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I'm not voting for that >> counselors. We heard um a u a middle ground compromise from our director of planning and development. I in my
opinion I like it. I think I think I'm all about meeting in the middle ground. Um where we can see where things go. Um I don't know how the rest of my colleagues feel. Um but I
am looking if there is any agreement with that. I am looking for um someone to make a friendly amendment to this contract. >> What is the motion? >> I mean a friendly uh the motion is >> it's no motion. >> What is the agreement? Is it five years or 10 years? >> So the so the middle ground would be the
five years. Can you repeat it? The five years >> to have the to have the amendment agreed and modified to a five-year term but at the same numbers that are presented. >> Five years. >> Five years term at the same number at the same rate. No, because the
>> councelor, you keep speaking out out of order >> through you, Madam Chair. >> Council President, >> you don't have to raise your voice. >> Well, if it was if it was you in the in the city council full time, you you would not appreciate >> it. Raise my voice. What is the
agreement? If you have a Tiff of 15 years, what is the schedule that you're talking about if it is a reduction to five years? >> So, tell me the schedule because I write something down. Tell me. Well, the schedule would be using the same schedule just limit take the last 10 years off. It'll be the first year 90 80
70 60 and 50. So after the fifth year under the agreement anyways they were going to be paying 50% of the full taxes uh under the current agreement. As you see that's the way all the tips work. That's it's and if you look at on the chart you'll see some of them they had five years at 100%. So they are paying
their share going forward. But those first couple years are the key years. And again they're talking about reinvesting funds. So that's I think is important. >> So the schedule three madam chair will be a fiveyear stiff with 90 the first year. So 90%
uh 90 10% tax that they going to pay. On the 20 on the second year they're going to pay 20%. On the third year they're going to pay 30%. And the fourth year they're going to pay uh 40%. And on the fifth year they're going to pay 50%. And
after that, they're going to pay 100%. >> Yes. >> Okay. I have no problem with that. >> Okay. Um, Director McCarthy, thank you for for the solution. Um, I do want to add to this. So, I'm going to
recommend this committee to send this up as a favorable recommendation with the conditions that discussed and I'm also going to add to request a legal opinion from the city attorney to look it over to ensure that we covered all
our bases. Um, on my end, like I I'm all about meeting in the middle. I'm seeing you guys. You guys are are good with that. So, that that's what I'm going to request. Motion >> motion favorable recommendation five-year TIF um with the current TIF
rates and also a a final legal opinion from the city attorney. >> Motion has been made. Is there a second? >> I second the motion. >> Seconded by council president. Final remarks. Seeing none, all those in favor say I.
I. I. Any nays? No. >> Um >> Maria, can you please call the role? Your mic is off. >> Council of Vice Chair. Um Vivian Marmal. >> Yes.
>> My battery is dead. >> You want to borrow mine? >> It came back alive. Apologize for that. Councelor Mark Llant. >> No. >> Councelor President Giovanni Rodriguez. >> Yes.
>> And >> Councelor Chair is Stephanie F. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Motion carries. >> Did you call your vote? >> Yeah. Yeah, I voted. Yes. Um motion carries. This is going up for
the final round of approval to the full council. >> So I'll provide you the amended agreement. Um >> I'll try and get it done by tomorrow. Thank you. So you have for next week. >> Thank you. April >> you chair >> council president. Uh can you uh clarify
and update also the list of TE and TAI that you sent before with all can you please also update the TAI and the TIF agreement spreadsheet that you sent before? >> I will I'll ask it's I don't produce it
comes from the assessor's office. I'll ask them. >> Yeah. Just make sure that we we got it all because you you you mentioned another one. >> Yeah. I think I noticed the trade brother is not on there either. >> Yeah. Okay. So that's a they have a tie >> and we just the latest one we approve.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. So April 7th we'll see you at the full council council council before we leave. Can I have a motion to send um item 79-26
the year-to- date budget review fire department um as a withdrawal to the full council. So second >> motion has been made by the by the vice chair, seconded by council president. Any discussion on that? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. The eyes have
it. Also, can I have a motion to unte item 78-26, year-to- date budget review police department? >> So move. >> Motion has been made to unted by the vice chair. All those in favor say I. >> I. The eyes have it. Now can I have a
motion to send this item as a withdrawal to the full council? >> So move. Motion has made. >> Thank you. Motion has been made by the council president, seconded by the vice chair. Any discussion? >> Seeing none, all those in favor say I.
I. The eyes have it. Now, can I have a motion to adjurnn? >> So, move second. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair, seconded by the council president. All those in favor say I. I. The eyes have it.