Good evening everyone. Welcome to the budget and finance committee. Uh today is Monday, November 24th, 2025. It is approximately 6:45 p.m. Note this meeting is conducted as a virtual meeting with proceedings broadcasted on
the media outlets provided uh which is the Zoom link and our Facebook Lawrence City Council page. voting members present today is our uh madame chair Stephanie Infante,
um myself, vice chair Vivian Marmal, and uh councelor from district B, Wendy Lson. We have our council president that will be joining us shortly, uh councelor Rodriguez. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022, this meeting of budget and finance
committee is being conducted via remote participation. a reminder that persons who would like to listen to and or view this meeting while in progress may use of any of the following access location um access locations that I had
previously mentioned. Um there are no minutes for council approval. So going straight into business um is the first item on the agenda under new business is item number 454-25
uh which is the appropriation transfer in the amount of $537 382. So let me say that again. 537,38267 uh from retained earnings to various airport accounts. We do have our airport
manager, Francisco Gena, if you could please um I would say take the floor, but take the microphone and let us know what this item is about. >> Um before could everybody hear me?
>> Uh counselor, I believe I am not muted anymore. I was muted there for a bit. >> My apologies. Uh Mr. Reena, do you mind giving me a second? Let me allow uh cuz I I'm forgetting that when we are conducting these meetings virtually, we
need to uh do our uh call the role um and we should do it one by one. So, madame clerk, if you could please call the role for um to see who's present with us today. Councelor Wend Lon
>> present. >> Councelor uh Stephanie Infante >> present. >> Councelor Vegan Marble >> present. >> And cons Council President Javanni Rodriguez noted as absent. You'll be joining us later, right?
>> Yes. Um >> for the time is noted absent. Thank you. >> Okay, perfect. Okay, Mr. Reena, you have the floor now. My apologies. Thank you, councelor. On November 12th, I sent in a memo to uh city council president requesting to be part of this agenda.
I'll give a brief highlight u reading the first paragraph of that memo, which you may see. Whereas the Lawrence Municipal Airport would like to tra would like to transfer the amount you stated, 537,382,67 out of our retained revenues account, which has a balance of $78,000
277 $78,277. And that is for various projects that the airport requires. and we have met the right guidelines uh to be able to address uh now rather than waiting for a
subsequent year. Uh one of those tasks is $22,515 for the pre preliminary work of an upcoming project which we are in the uh starting phase of which is the navigation easement. It is a safety
mandated task by the FAA uh which requires the airport through its consultants to uh acquire uh various trees that are uh abuing various parcels of the approach airspace of the runways
uh in order to keep the airspace safe. Uh this task once completed will be subject to a 95% reimbursement but by both the state and the federal government. Um, another, again, stop me at any time, counselor, should you have any questions or you could ask the
questions at the end at your pleasure. Another $19,000 um would be to cover a change order for a taxiway project. This is our final share of the project uh which was completed. This was a $10.5 million taxiway realignment of taxiway Charlie,
which was reconstructed about a year and a half ago now. And this is our final um our final uh payment uh our final share of that 5% of the project which incurred a change order. Um the third
item is $260,000 in order to cover our share of a site improvement project. This is a non-avviation parcel located at 135 North Ramp Road which the North Andover Conservation Commission mandated the uh site to be stabilized and add
drainage. we are in the uh the year to be able to take action on that task. And and again, once we have this amount of money transferred, we'll be able to create uh a fund uh by the rules of uh
the of our CAFO. Um, number item number four is uh an additional $12,000 or not additional but $12,000 as part of this request to address some aged trees that we have on the on the airport itself. These trees
are infringing on hangers then could potentially um be have an issue if there's a heavy storm, windstorm, snowstorm or others. So, these uh trees are aged and we would like to address them by cutting them down with our contractor per city
contract. Uh another additional $30,000 to address or to do a study. This study is in in in guidance of the FAA uh which is a aviation parcel that we would like to convert to a non-avviation parcel. um
[clears throat] we will be able to if the least to be able to um achieve additional revenues for the airport and as you know and I I think it's important to share that the airport self- sustained self-sufficient and and by generating these fees these rental rates
of properties is how we generate some of the operating costs at the airport. And item number six is $13,867 in order to uh to cover our final invoice for a closeup for taxiway
Charlie. Uh during construction, this uh project experienced additional work. Um and then again, this is part of our our share. Um which the remaining part of that was covered by state and federal grants. Um, counselor, that is all I
have at this point for and that adds up to $537,38267. Happy to answer any of your questions. >> Okay. Counselor's discussion, questions, concerns. Okay. Um, so I did had notated the
$30,000. I wanted to make sure that the fee to do the study was 30,000. Um, is 30,000. Um, part of that and counselor, I just want to let you know that the other counselors are muted. I don't know if they were trying to access or they have control to unmute themselves. >> They do. They do. Or
>> for anyone Okay. For anyone uh that's joining us today, you could also um send me a message via the chat if I for some reason or you're having technical difficulties. by all means send me a text message on my personal phone or
send me a message via the chat on um on this platform. So, Mr. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was um was given clarity regarding the
fee or uh for this study. Um and then um part of my other question is you mentioned to change the parcel from an aviation parcel to a non-avviation parcel. Um do you know does the does the
do you know or does the board know what they want to do with this parcel and if it's nonavviation what exactly would it be converted to? >> So yes um and to answer let me answer the first question in in in not the same order. All of these requests have been
vetted by the airport commission and is with their full support that I bring them before you this evening. Um the second part of that question is a 30,000 study. Yes, that's in accordance to the FAA um where various environmental studies
and impact studies need to be uh addressed uh to address the any concerns of of AMEPA again and then various other um FA requirements that are part of that. As fourth as the the parcel, a
parcel is is about two four acres uh altogether. Um it is in the north part of the airport. Um it is ab budding the Marramac River. Um and so there is no real use for this space currently. It
does have some wetlands that uh cross through it. Um it has a very high pitch. I'm happy to give you a tour counselor or any any counselors for that matter to show you exactly uh what we're discussing uh this evening.
And so it it again with the support of the airport commission they understand that this parcel uh is just um with the topography is tree covered uh currently and so there will be some sub subsequent work by any uh any any investor or
requester or any person building on this site uh to make it viable. Um we have received some interest from um through through the airport commission of some abuing neighbors or or businesses and as you know we are in a
very uh highly uh dense commercial industrial uh zone. Um so once so let me give you the order. um the the air the parcel is deemed aviation and we go through the process
of making a non-avviation. Then we put together an RFP for a a period of time where the public or anybody looking to lease this property um can can uh apply for it. It has already been appraised um and so we do have an appraisal cost
per square footage on that. Uh should again should you need that information counselor. >> Okay, I'm all set. Um so just to make sure no further discussions based on new information that we received.
Okay, seeing none, I'm looking for >> make a motion to send this up to the full council as a favorable recommendation. >> Motion was made. Can I get a second? Oh, well I can second it. Second. Madam, call the role.
>> Sure. Uh, Councelor Wendy Lon, >> yes. >> Councelor Vivian Marvel, >> yes. >> Councelor Stephanie Infante, >> yes. >> And Council President, President Gioani Rodriguez, noted absent.
>> Okay. And the motion carries. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Ur. Thank you for your patience. Um, I'll see you at the full council. >> Thank you. Thank you. Next item on the agenda is item 45525, the authorization to expend
$256,500 on the mass save grant funds. Do we have um our acting director or is there anyone from that department on behalf of Miss Pasqual who I have on my agenda um who would be speaking in regards to this
item? No, good evening. Uh, councelor um, Mam Dan McCarthy here. I am uh, with the office of planning uh, and development. I am the planning director for the city. I am also the agent for the green communities program and have
worked on many of the uh, municipal energy programs over the years. So I am here to speak on behalf of this. >> Okay. >> Also joining me is Mr. Anil Navcal. Mr. Navkal is the special consultant to the mayor on energy, environment, and
sustainability, and we're both here to present and answer any questions you might have. >> M madame vice chair. >> Yes, madam chair. >> Uh through you, I I just want to make a quick statement. It's something that I mentioned during the full council meeting yesterday. Uh I've
[clears throat] been and for director McCarthy for future um agenda items. Um, I've I've been asking for it's going to be like two months now regarding the acting role. This acting role has not been reauthorized by the city council.
So, I I want everybody to be on the same page as that, especially when putting things on the item. I I would like to see things if if if you are part of it, Director um McCarthy, and and you're overseeing something, I would rather see
you um submitting things on the agenda until this this portion of of of this situation gets um resolved within the council and the department. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. I will do so. Okay, you may proceed.
>> Um, good evening everybody. But again, my name is Dan McCarthy. I'm here to present on an application before this uh commission before this council to request the expenditures of of funds uh that are being made available through a program uh called for called Mass Save.
It's a program that's existed for a number of years. Cities wanted to participate in this in for a while. We've recently got our um our our electrical programs um up set up and we're doing uh more outreach to try and save the citizens of Lawrence um funding
and um in their in their electric bills and help them um navigate the different programs for um um um maintaining their houses with more energy uh consistency.
the uh again the pro the amount that the funding that we're asking for is is a summit of 256,500 that now is a three-year grant. The the primary function is to hire an advocate who will work um for the city and they
will work directly with the public helping them um fill out applications, helping them with the paperwork, assisting them with um the different programs of um energy um efficiency that Mass program allows. It also has some
money um for um for engagement um public outreach and things of that nature. The the program is funded by um utility fees that are taken back by the energy companies and this money is being
returned to the city through um funding from both Eversource and National Grid. They will both pay a portion of this money. It will cost the city um nothing um towards the uh program. Um again, it
is um it is primarily a um a project to help with the uh um the residents of the city. Um a lot of these um these programs can be complicated and the idea of energy um fixing their houses with
energy uh efficiency projects can be complicated. So that's what the purpose of this is to is to work with them and the mass program to bring this uh funding to them. Um I have Mr. Neil Navcow. I said Neil if you'd like to speak any more on the project I'd love
you to do so. >> Thank you. Thank you Mr. Cons and the chair for allowing to participate in this important conversation. uh mass sale is paid by small charge on
everybody's gas and electric bills. It's uh a totally rate players funded program. The money belongs to the rate payers and why this matters to Lawrence is that historically communities like
Lawrence have not received our fair share. uh the awareness has been low and many renters and small businesses have missed out on getting the benefits. Mass
appealed to us, partnered with us and they are ready to now work with us to fix this anomaly and the injustice of not getting the funding to the red pairs. Uh what
the energy advocate does is is is a local point of contact who helps the residents and small businesses learn about the programs, complete the enrollments. This is an outreach and enrollment role.
City will not do technical assessment or installation. Massive vendors along with Greater Alliance uh GLCSC will will be there to help the red
pairs. That's their responsibility. We hand over that to them and they take over. The total funding that we have requested is about 256,000 not about it's exactly 256 266
$500 through March 2028 out of which Ever Source will pitch in uh $110,295 and National Grade will pitch in 146 uh dollars 205 uh 205 146 $6,25
massive will cover outreach events costs either directly or by reimbursement final details are being worked out. So over and above the money they have committed to pay the energy advisor
they will also are committed to pay for events that we'll be organizing. We are thinking of organizing 200 landlords with electric and oil heat get invited and explain them the the benefits they may get through them we can approach the
renters but this is a very massive undertaking next two three years two and a half years we'll be engaged with rate payers across the board at scale it's a unique program we are the only city we have taken this kind of role of
actively engaging landlords. Massive has struggled to get landlords on board. We said that we can come up with some innovative programs. We've done a lot of work to do that. But for last two and a half years, we've been working non-stop. This is the culmination of that effort.
This is really helping the rate payers deal with the energy burden we have. like ask is please authorize the city to expend the dollar two 256,500 in massive grant funds for energy
advocates compensation so we can start helping more Lawrence families and small business small owners. Once you approve the program, we will start the process of creating the positions, advertising the positions, go through the HR and
then publicize it and then based on the interviews and such, we will select the right person. That's the process. I'm happy to answer any questions if you have me. Uh I thank you again for the opportunity.
>> Okay. Thank you so much. Um discussions, questions, counselors. >> No. [laughter] Madame Chair, can I make a motion? [snorts] >> Um any question? Motion to send to the full council with favor of
recommendation. Madam, call the role, >> madam clerk. Yeah. Who second that? I I didn't >> um counel. >> Okay. Thank you. Um councelor Infante. >> Yes. Councelor Won.
>> Yes. councelor I'm sorry councelor Vivian Marmo >> yes >> and council president Javanni Rodriguez noted absent this time >> okay the motion carries >> all right the next item on the agenda is
item 45625 the approval of tax increment exemption um agreement between uh 216 Canal Street LLC and the city of Lawrence uh Mr. McCarthy, I believe you're here for this item as well. >> Yes, I am. I'm also here with Jesus TJO,
was one of the principles of uh 216 Canal Street LLC. They are a local developer who's been working on this project for several years. The building uh identified 216 Canal is the historic um Petan Mill. The um the the project is
going to be a multi-million dollar development project. Um we've submitted this um TAI agreement which is a tax incentive um program um to develop market rate housing um through the program called HD DIP. Um this has
already been reviewed by the um um state housing development. Um we've had some conversations with them as well about the um program of this project. um as part of the program um um the on the city side it provides uh tax incentives
through a increment program in the first several years first five years of the of the building's um operation but it also provides on the state level uh state tax credits which uh can be useful for developers who are doing a um a project
that the state approves and finds it to be highly advantageous. Um, we believe this project is to be one of them. I think uh the city and the city's position is that a lot of investment has gone in by the uh Tjo brothers already. They're building a $2.1 million bridge
over the North Canal uh on at their cost. This was uh project that was inherited from Iron Horse who previously owned the the demolished bridge that was sitting there. They're making this two ways at the behest of the city fire department so that the largest equipment
can cross there and that there'll be two-way traffic. Um I have with me Mr. Jesus Tjo who can talk about the project itself. I can answer any questions that you wish on the program and uh it's to your pleasure. >> Oh yeah, I want to hear the details.
That's why we're here. >> Are we I'm sorry. Are we doing questions? Are we continuing with the presentation? >> I think Mr. Trey who want to >> Okay. Sorry. Sorry. >> Hey. Um, good evening. Um, uh, yeah, just to summarize what we're doing
there. Um, like like Dan was saying, the the the bridge has been basically out of use for about 40 years. Uh, we're kind of starting with that just to gain our access back to that building. Um, as far as on the development side, what we're
doing there is 99 units. Uh, it's a mix of um of studios. Well, there's only two studios, but most of it's one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and a couple of three bedrooms in there. Um, and then all our parking is going to be on site. There's um 136 parking spots. It's going to be
on the first floor and the second floor of the building. Um, and we're going uh trying to get this tie agreement because the the state does have some some grant money for projects such as this, but one of the conditions from the state is to
have a tie agreement in place. Um, and and the state feels that this is a a good candidate for a project u to receive a HIPP award or at least u try to >> my lunch here. Um,
>> Madam Chair, I also have a comment. >> Okay. So, discussions. Um, councilors Lon, did you have a question or were you planning on submitting a motion at this time? >> No, no, no, no, not a motion. >> Okay. So, >> it's not mentioned.
>> Okay. So, go ahead. >> I do I'm they mention a bridge. So if before I go to questions in regards to the units,
>> who owned the bridge and they already invested a lot of money into this bridge? >> Uh I would like to know who owns the bridge now. >> So that that bridge belongs to uh that bridge belongs to to our building to 216
Canal Street. Well, how do that happen? How can a bridge belongs to uh a private entity? >> So, I can explain the um the the canal itself is owned by Patriot Hydro,
formerly the Essex Company, and they own that as an asset. when they subdivided all the industrial parcels um they divided them up and then gave certain um equipment went with those um parcels. So this bridge was part of the
um of the um infrastructure that that provided access to the Petan Mill back when it was an industrial mill. Um it's one of the oldest uh mill buildings in the city. It has a long history. um for for about 25 years it was being used
just as a uh by iron horse storage which uh kept medical records there. So it was very underutilized didn't provide jobs or really anything uh productive to the city and the development of the housing is I think is going to be a big great deal. So if you look down there's several bridges that run across them.
There's a diagonal train bridge which used to belong to this the B&M railroad. The city owns that. That's the only one that the city owns. The others either belong to Pacific Mills um or I think the uh Washington Mill, but they're all
p every bridge across is privately owned. >> Exactly. All the bridges are privately owned, but the land the waterway and the land over the bridge is all owned by Patriot Hydro. So, it's it's a
combination of both, but like you said, Dan, the the canal is owned by the Patriot Hydro and all those bridges are privately owned except for that pedestrian bridge that the city owns. >> Councelor Lon, do you have any further questions?
>> I will take a minute to think uh but I mean I'm assuming that councelor Infant has questions. It does. So I just wanted to make sure you you know I don't want to uh you know since you have the
floor right now but >> yes uh madame chair what is concerning is to hear uh entities and nothing to do with this entity in particular is to hear that this
pieces of land that supposed to from my perspective supposed to uh belong to the city. They are privately on a bridge that's supposed to belong to everyone. Uh it's concerning, but uh I
do understand the explanation of her. >> Yeah, I can I address the um council's concern? I think I think she's she's concerned that it' be a private bridge and that the
>> that the owner could refuse um on that bridge. That is not the case. The all of the individuals within the the north canal as we describe it,
could you mute yourself for the time being? >> Yeah. So everybody, so there are easement rights for other parties to pass and any and anybody who's going to those um buildings have a right to cross those bridges. Um more particularly the
fire department was was adamant that they wanted more access to the island. Um as the number of people living on the island increased, they wanted better access. They want the ability to to to go in circles to get to certain
buildings from different um points. So, a lot of it is related to safety. Um again, they're private bridges maintained for the purpose of the of the projects themselves. They were, you know, they were originally used for the employees to get to work in those mills
years ago. But now, again, um there is a a comprehensive right for everybody to pass. um it doesn't mean trespassers and people like that can enter into the property and and trespass because they are privately owned. But again, there's a a common easement um pack um notion
throughout. So um again and I and I don't believe the Trillo brothers would be looking to keep uh put gates on this project or anything else. It's so but is is that is that accurate Jesus? >> Councelor Lon, did you have a question
or a rebuttal? >> Councelor Lon, >> hello. Can you hear me, manager? >> I can hear you now. >> Okay. I'm sorry about that. So um how can they assure that this is going to be the situation? Because I know that
in certain cities you find private uh um ways and you can actually read signs um telling the um pedestrians that they cannot
basically get in there without trespassing. I don't know if that will be the situation. Uh well in Metuin we have private uh they have private waves. I mean how can we assure that at some point this
bridges are not going to become private uh ways for the developers. >> Yeah. I I think the only thing I I would say is is like Dan said, I mean, I know right off the bat that um like Union
Canal, they have they have easement rights over that bridge. Um they I mean, right now they have a parking lot in the back, but the technically they do have easement rights to use that to go over that bridge through our property. And and like Dan said, I think originally we
were going to put a onelane bridge there cuz that's what was there before. Um, but the fire department did want a two-lane bridge, which which we um which we worked with them and and honored, but I don't know. I don't know how to answer that question to be honest with
you because I mean you could say that about all those bridges on the canal. Technically, they're all privately owned. So, everyone, you know, Pacific Mills, um, uh, 240, I'm sorry, 250 Canal, uh, they're all or even my
bridge. I guess all the private owners are, you know, fiscally responsible for those bridges, but but I don't I don't know how to answer that question to be honest. I don't know what's keeping them from from doing it, but I I think like Dan said, there's a lot of underlying
easements in there um that have just been existing for, you know, since the beginning of time. >> If I may interject for a little bit, um how long has this particular bridge, let's focus on this bridge, um how long
has this bridge been privately owned? >> Probably almost 100 years. Almost a hundred. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um, councelor Lone, any any last questions before I give the the floor to
um our Madame Chair Infante? >> I uh Thank you, Madam Chair and to you. I uh and I I do understand the history behind that bridge and the other bridge,
but it's still uh us as a um city as uh we should be because now may be an issue because we know that the Tjo family has been investing they care. They know the city
and they do an amazing job with their properties. But um I'm just concerning about any future um >> we understand your concerns councelor >> because it's not it's not city owned I
feel like had it been city owned we would have the leeway to to kind of uh put our own demands and requests but because it's privately owned um you know our madam chair could correct me if I'm wrong or anyone Mr. McCarthy, director.
Um, being that this is your your line of work, um, due to the fact that it's been privately owned for for as long as it has, I don't think we, you know, it's not something that we could debate at this time in regards to the ownership of the bridge. It's moving forward as to
what they're trying to do with the property with the tax incentive. >> No, I know, but then I I'm I understand that. My question is for the director. How can we
uh for the future work for the present prevent any developer to let's say uh um prohibit uh anyone that doesn't rent in those
buildings to drive by cuz I've seen streets in Metuin that it they have signs uh they basically privately own ways and is they still in the city. I'm I'm
famili I'm familiar with some of the ones in Methuan and a lot of those it's you go you're going into a private area where the entire >> the entire property is owned by one entity but that's the bridge we have the same situation up in the um the um
Malden Mills area uh the city owns property back there and we have city rights to to cross through the various entryways and the various um roads within that complex. Same thing with people who might be going to the futaria market or going to work at one of the
businesses there. So, it's the same situation here. There are some commercial businesses there. Uh people who would be going to work at those businesses are entitled to get on the island through any of the three bridges that access across that uh island
bridge. And um and and I don't think any developer I think the city would be concerned if any developer put up um some kind of barricade and uh would not think highly of that. And uh we take steps. >> Uh
>> I and and and thank you for explaining that but I mean why can the city take steps now before and I'm not concerned about the TOS family. I'm concerned about any future just to put it out there because
I know we're talking about incented and all that >> but we should take precaution. We should be careful now instead of waiting >> uh for something like that to happen. >> It's a concern that I have
>> and I hope it's take uh into is taken into consideration. >> Thank you madam chair. Um, no problem. I believe our Madame Chair Infante had a few questions. >> I do. Thank you. I maybe more of
comments than anything, but first I want to say um I know uh Dan, you sent over supporting documents and I I emailed you back received, but I [clears throat] haven't had the chance to look at those documents. >> I've been in meeting after meeting after meeting and I I always say this to you,
please stop sending things this the day of because we need it. we needed beforehand to to review that and even though we get the these presentations within those documents there are more details that perhaps could be forgotten or etc. Um that I know at least this
counselor I read through mostly everything. >> Yeah, I sent those out last week. I I don't know if you got it or not. >> I don't Okay, so I'll double check that. Um so if if you did I apologize but the the email that I saw was the one today um that was sent today. Uh that's very
minute. Um when it comes to this issue, I first want to want to say I I have heard great things about the Trillo brothers. I haven't had the privilege, I think, of meeting them in person or or working with them. However, I do have an issue with this project.
Um, so we are looking to add 99 units at market rate and we're looking to give a tax incentive to the developer.
And I think Director McCarthy, you you've heard me say this many times, the issue that we have, and I know housing is is um there's a housing crisis across the state, across the nation. And I I 100% understand that. But it's not necessarily a housing crisis. It's
really affordability. We keep approving market rate, market rate, market rate. Um some don't agree to to having a percentage of of affordable or income based h um units. Some do. And if they do, they they they and I'm keeping this
gen. I've never I've never heard of this issue with the Tjo buddies, but and if they do, you know, it's it's a lot of buts and ifs and etc. And here we are giving them tax incentive. We are in a city that we are every day. There's a
growing issue of illegal room renting because people cannot afford to live in our community. That's a real issue. And the ones that get stuck with all those issues is ISD and the city councilors. So, we keep uh I mean, I think it's
great. I'm not against developing the developing our our our city. I think it's needed, but I'm also wondering when when is there going to be a balance between developing and moving our city forward and really addressing the actual needs of our community? And uh madame
vice chair, that's that's the only comment I have on this. >> No. Um I am I am so glad that you mentioned that because I was in chairing this meeting. my the way I I I conduct my the meetings when I'm chairing it is
that I try to allow for all the participating uh committee members to discuss and a ask their questions and uh I'll I'll leave myself for last and that is one of the things that I was going to bring up. So
I jotted it down 99 residential units. out of the 99, nowhere in this paperwork did I see anything that discusses a portion of those units being um lowinccome. So, I I don't want to make
assumptions. This is why we're having these preliminary meetings before sending it to the full council. So, if there's an explanation for that, if there's a science behind this, by all means, I would love to hear it. >> I'd be glad to respond to that.
>> Yeah. Dan, you want me to make make a what I was going to say is um so so right now in right now I have we have 82 units right now. Out of our 82 units, all 82 of them meet the affordability
requirements in in the Marramac Valley. All 82 out of 82. A problem that happens sometimes is when when you're doing affordable housing, you could either do all affordable or you can do there there's not really a center line because
a lot of times with these banks they they almost factor in that because I'm already meeting this threshold. But if I had, say, for example, I did 20% affordable. Now I need to have a third party company that oversees this. And
that cost is give or take $40, $50,000 a year to have them oversee and and almost do these annual audits. And for me, it just makes it tough to do it cuz I'm already meeting those threshold with my rent prices cuz I'm already in that in
those threshold for my two bedrooms, my onebedrooms. But now what's happening is these banks are looking at the money that my building's bringing in and they're saying your income is $50,000 less. So it almost makes the project unfeasible unless you go and do
something where it's 60 80 or 100% affordable. But quite frankly, I don't I don't have the capacity to do that. I don't have >> the the the grant underwriters or or the wherewithal to do something like that. But I I I'd be happy to share like a
rent role and like I said I we 100% of my units meet that affordability component in Mass which right now I mean right now I think a twobedroom Dan and Lawrence is in it's 2250 all of ours are
probably $200 $300 beneath that >> and and I'd like to kind of just talk about the program itself. Um, HD DIP was designed as a program specifically to encourage the development of market rate housing in communities like Lawrence. It's um part of the the
awards award um um criteria looks to e economic justice communities that don't have um access to this. I know for years um we were always asking for some type of program to
assist developers um in communities like Lawrence for the development of of market rate housing. There was a time I can remember um years going by and maybe even a decade where not one market rate project was built in the city. Um
everything was done under affordable and and I I I use the term affordable. I don't like these are low income, but the affordable limits were done and these units weren't being built at 20 or 40% affordable. They're 100% affordable and I have no pro problem with that. I work
with those nonprofits who develop those projects. There's already um a couple hundred units on this island that are all affordable. But again, u the city wants to see a diversity of housing and um and these programs are are done to
incentivize that. >> Madam Chair, >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Dan. Go ahead. >> Oh, um I was just going to say the the market has been very strong uh for the last eight years for um developing
market rate housing. That's partly because there's a crisis I think from the underdevelopment of of residential housing and in the population growth within the in the state. So it is it is a real problem. I won't deny that. Um but I think the and I the development of
any new property is going to increase the is is going to decrease the burden by like again just creating more the opportunity for more people uh to have a place to live. Um, so, uh, again, the the program is is made specifically for,
uh, market rate housing. Um, and it's not take it's not so it's not really like taking money away from affordability. Um, but that's what the project is is geared towards. >> So, just to gain clarity, you said the age dip program is specifically for
market rate units. It does it. They are not um with the age dip. They're they're not allowed to >> you can do affordability. >> Okay. >> You can madam chair >> up to 20%.
>> Council Fonte, you have the floor. >> Thank you. I have two things. I first want to say thank you to Mr. Tjo. I think uh we've we've we've conducted many of these meetings and as I've said the first time, you hear a lot of buts and ifs and and and you you gave us a a
a welldetailed reason and I followed you and I understood and and I appreciate that. So I I first want to say thank you. [snorts] But now going to uh director McCarthy, director, you why did it why did it take for council Marmal to ask you that question again to
say that with within this program there is um a 12 a 20% affordable housing option for it because when you originally presented this program in in in a response to what I said you said
specifically this is for market rate. That's one. Secondly, um secondly, almost all besides um besides uh Greater Lawrence Community Action Council's
project, almost all of the housing projects that have been coming before the city council have all been market rate. You guys are not even trying to to to help out our community. Yes. Yes. we have a housing crisis, but it's
but it's not because it's not because we we're lacking housing because I can go into Pacific Mills, Washington Mills, all these mills and print out all the available apartments right now. And and it's not because again, it's not because we're lacking. It's because of
affordability. And you know, working for the city, the issue that we also have, and I mentioned this again, with illegal room renting, um, with that being said,
I don't understand, I'm I'm I'm getting tired as a counselor of of hearing this is what the community needs. This is what the community needs. when as a counselor myself, I am speaking directly to the average Laurentian. I am I am learning and hearing about their their
daily their daily challenges. Um and and it's like what are what are we what are we talking about that this that this is what the community needs or or or etc.? Are we actually doing our research as as a community at at the city hall level? Because I know this is
what I'm hearing as a counselor. So, where is the disconnect when it comes to developing our our community? >> Well, I have a housing development production plan that'll be coming before you and that outlines everything what the concerns and the needs of the city and and it's going to directly state
that the city needs a wide array of housing, needs housing for elderly, needs housing for families, needs housing for single individuals. So, there's there is no one group in this city that that is satisfied with the amount of housing they have. Everybody
needs housing. And and I I disagree with you when you said that I'm the insinuating that I'm misrepresenting. I was never asked the issue whether or not I said the program allowed affordable housing. I said the proposal it was done directly to to
create affordable uh um a program to uh address developers who want to build market rate housing. Part of the reason there's a 20% affordability in it is because many of the cities have adopted smart growth districts which require a
20% affordable requirement. So that we want the projects to be able to get the same funding here, qualify for housing development, build the 20% within the uh districts and get the uh the housing uh HIPP
um incentives as well. Um we want to encourage all kinds of growth and again like like you said the trails have have done a a great job in the city with development a number of projects and um and and again they're taking on a great
cost in the incurrence of of building this um this bridge which will be for the benefit of of everybody on that island and for the safety. >> All right. Thank you, Director McCarthy. And um I look forward to to reviewing th
that those data points that you're going to present to us. >> Yes, >> madame chair council, give me one second. >> Give me one second. I I have our council
president who raised >> his hand and because he hasn't said anything, I just want to give him the floor. I will circle back though. So, please. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Take a Yeah, put a pin on it. Don't forget. Um,
>> hold on. I madam >> call. >> I need to call roll call uh for um council president Javanni Rodriguez. >> Yes, please. >> Present. >> Thank you. >> A couple of things that we need to bring
to the table. Hello. Hi. How you guys doing everybody? Um, Joanni Rodriguez, the city council president. Uh, couple of things that we need to bring to the discussion. The first thing we need to bring, I don't know if that was part of the discussion originally, is that uh that specific
building and uh laid down into an area that is 20% uh is supposed to be 20% affordable. Also it is important to recognize that because it's under the overlay area that
is supposed to uh happen that way but also having discussions throughout I can also uh see that it was based on uh not a requirement as we did it uh on other overlays that we did it by ordinance
instead we adopt a chapter I believe chapter 40r uh on this area and then uh since then it's supposed to be 40% 30 I mean 20% affordable u if I correct Mr. regard. You can correct me if I'm wrong.
>> So, that is correct. The the the 40R program is a permitting overlay district. Um it doesn't change the underlying zoning and that's not the requirement of it. Um it's not the state's um the state's purpose to to um
force people to put a affordable housing in it. is part what they do is they provide an incentive to uh build an affordable housing by allowing this this 40 permitting right which gives you more advantageous um um for density uh on
certain variances um limits the parking um and and it makes the uh doesn't require special permits which makes it easier to get your financing and and do several things. So, we we strongly encourage people to use the program uh
if they if they wish, but the city our city departments aren't here to to try and you know force anybody to accept that. They have the the right to option out and go through the the regular process which requires the variances and requires getting a special permit. Um
I've included um both of the decisions in your packages um from the zoning board and the planning board. If they had gone through the 40 process, it would have been an expedited process and there would have been um you know it would have been less paperwork and in a
in an easier project for them. But uh but the developer opted not to do that. I actually had a long discussion with the Tjo brothers years ago about the benefits of doing 40R. Um but they determined that was not what they wanted to do. Yeah, I understand. That was going to be part of my discussion that
you guys uh the developer uh the Dho brothers and uh and the city have discussed this um I believe back probably three four five years ago u since they start working on this project
>> u to see if they were they they can become part of 40R which allow uh the project to be 20% uh 20% affordable but as uh Jesus just mentioned um that's going to require um
a lot more when it comes to the developer u a yearly and a yearly expenditure. He just mentioned that it's going to be about $50,000. Uh but that's the that's that's one of the thing that we need to also bring
bring up to the discussion because the reason why the city actually adopt this this 40i district or overlays is to ensure that you know projects around those areas for specific reason that the city have this designate are important
to be with a portion of affordable housing. Um that's put as as we just discussed as an optional as an option not an obligation um different than other section of the city that perhaps in Canal Street we actually put that by
law um and and that's that's a requirement uh just just out of transparency I want to bring this up so this can be part of the discussion as well if if we uh if we
choose to go ahead and give that the tax incentive to to the cha uh to the developer. Another thing that I want to bring up is um I was makati I I have a quick question and I don't know what how the discussion evolved between the
developer and the city and perhaps the state when it comes to the bridge. I see that you guys are going to rebuild a bridge to be able to get access to the uh to the uh to the to the project and and also
uh is that is that if I if I read correctly I mean I think that the developer is the one that's going to be paying for that uh for to renew the bridge or to get a better to I mean not
to maintain it but perhaps to uh to fix it and if that's the case uh I want to know like uh as far as I understand those those bridges are along the canal
uh either belong to the city or belong to the state and I want to know like what is the the type of conversation to have evolved throughout how that's going to h how that going to work out and and and how you know I I just don't know. I mean,
can you uh explain a little more on that? >> Yeah, I I I'll probably let Mr. Treyjo speak towards um what what he's spent on the construction of the bridge and on that stuff. Um we did have a a shorter discussion earlier about the ownership
of the bridge. So, over the over the North Canal, the city owns four bridges, five bridges, take that. And they're all on the public streets. That would be the um the the one at Island Street, the one at Union Street, the one at the Central Bridge, and the one at the Falls Bridge.
We also own the train bridge, which is right next to this bridge. It's a pedestrian bridge. Those are the >> Hold on. Hold on, Matt. >> Yep. >> What? Why? Can you just go slowly on those bridges there? >> So, we own the one at Island Street. Um >> the one on Island Street on Union
Street. the one down near the um the 40 Island Street project that goes across. It was newly built about 15 years ago. >> So that is the one that is near street, right? >> It it comes it comes out right near the
Gateway parking lot in on on canal in >> that's then we we have the one over Union Street which is currently under contract to be repaired. That is the the leuces bridge and that's street is on that. Then we own the bridge right next to
that. That's a metab big steel bridge. That's a pedestrian bridge and we bought that from um B&M railroad about uh 15 years ago. We also own the Amesberry Street Bridge which goes onto the central bridge that crosses the canal
and we own the one um you can barely even tell it's a bridge but the one at uh Water Street, Canal Street and Broadway. So those are the bridges that we do own. All the other bridges are privately owned um by different either different own developer uh project
owners or building owners. When the um when the Essex company sold these parcels to mill owners, the they either had to build their own bridges or they bought the bridges that were there. It's the same thing with all the water infrastructure within the canal. The
canals are owned by Essex Company or Patriot Hyde or I don't know how you call it, but all the other mech mechanical aspects of those canals, the raceways, the the generators, all those type of things are owned by the
individual property owners. >> That's correct. >> Yep. So that and that was all part of the um the sale of these projects when the city became privatized after uh about 1880. Okay. So that bridge specifically the
one that is kind of like the green structure the steel the structure on top that's early on. >> So that bridge was a onelane bridge and it belonged to the Iron Horse Company who sold that building. It's the Petan Mill building. So that was always the
bridge that service the Petan Mill. There used to be physically you couldn't get from one part to the other used because of certain um levels, but now the whole island is wide open. They've they've demolished probably three or four major mill buildings inside that
complex. So now the property is all wide open and there's a number of easements throughout this island that allows you to go from one building to the other building on these roadways and you can't deny access to one of your of the other owners. Same thing if if one of those
buildings has a business, people attending those businesses, there used to be a storage company in the in the mill building in the back. People who are going there for the store things had a right to use any of the bridges crossing the canal to get in there. So they so even though they're privately
owned, they cannot be privately controlled in such a manner. >> Understand? All right. All right. I just want to bring this this up as part of the discussion as well because I think that it will be essential so we can get
a full pictures of that uh of the this project uh or any other project around that uh due to the fact that potentially we are uh going to be partaking of it uh of the near future of the project by uh
providing the the developer with a tax incentive. Mhm. Yes. >> So the last question I have uh Mak is that can you provide a list of uh already
uh of like current projects that have this uh incentive uh that we for the last 10 years perhaps? >> Um yeah I I have that at home. Do you want the Thai ones, the TIFF ones or all of them? I can provide you all of them. um that make the distinction between the
two. >> They're they're all it's a spreadsheet with them all identifying the different programs. Um the two major programs is the TAI agreement which is done by the housing and living communities and the tiff agreement which is done by department of economic development, state department of economic development. One program is
to create jobs, one program is to create housing. >> That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. >> So I'll I can provide you all that I think for the last 20 years. I have that at home and thought that the the one that we are discussing today if it
doesn't have if it doesn't have a a economic development factor uh does not necessarily come in front of the council for approval. >> This one is going to have an economic development factor. Mr. uh TJO has already spoken with the state department
of um housing and living communities. They think this is a very interesting project. They think it will qualify for some of the state tax credits. We've been su successful in the past with a couple of other other developers who've gotten that money and again that that's money that's put aside for from
communities like Lawrence um that that needs assistance with the development of housing. >> Okay. If that's the case and then I think that it will be extremely important because we what we are doing is not necessarily doing a tax credit based on the amount of units that
they're going to be creating. Right. Instead, what we are doing is uh providing a tax incentive based on the amount of jobs that they're going to be creating on that space. >> No, that's the tiff.
>> Yeah, that's the if they were a commercial, if they're a business, they're coming in, they say, "We're going to create $300,000 jobs." They would get a tax credit on the building based upon the number of jobs. the tie the the tie agreement is from a from the housing and living communities which
gives the incentive towards housing development. Um >> and then can you that I going back to two second ago when I said uh if we just providing the tax incentive based on housing >> the city council does not have to vote
on this but the fact that we are actually having a commercial tie to the project and then we are providing uh an opinion and potential approval by the council. Am I correct that you >> the state requires the approval of the
project by in in the city's investment in the project by adopting a tie agreement with this developer. Our tie agreement is set in in as a fixed number. It's a 5-year tie beginning at 50% and going 40 30 20110. So that is
the lowest tie agreement that the state will accept as a city's contribution. The other money comes from housing and living communities and it's a tax credit for the development of the project and whole, but it's for a housing project, not for a commercial project creating
jobs. And the and they give this out to a limited number of projects throughout the state. So, everybody who gets a tie agreement does not get the tax credit. The tax credit is a state incentive. They do I think Jesus is it two rounds a
year? I believe >> exact this year they had three rounds. Um they they have three rounds. I think the state gets aotted about $40 million a year. Um, but in order to in order to be able to apply, I mean, there's no
guarantee that we're even going to get it, but in order to be able to apply, the requirement is to have a tie agreement with the city in place in order to even do an application with them. >> Okay, understand. Okay.
See, those are the type of things that need to bring that I don't know if I joined late in the conversation, but I mean, I hope that I did and I didn't get those. So now it's my fault. But if we didn't have that if you guys didn't have that conversation in place, I think it's
it's essential. I mean, I hope that I was late and I missed that. >> Um, no, you brought up some good points, C. All right. I just going to uh let all the counselors >> uh yeah, councelor Lson, I believe you
you had something that you needed to say prior. You have the floor. >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. You so I I'm kind of confused here because when you asked Mr. Tjo about affordable housing. He mentioned that
it was a uh a difficult route to take for developers because they needed uh they either do murade and not affordable housing like they
and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Tjo. You were asked at the beginning of the meeting how many units were affordable and you explained why is so difficult to
do both. Is that accurate? Why miss these two? >> It really comes down to really just the financing aspect. So, like for example to today, I mean without diving too far into it, but when I go to a bank to go
get financing, all they care about is what profit is in it at the end of the year. And just to give you an example, for every today, it changes all the time depending on where interest rates are, but for
every, let's call it, for every maybe for every $15,000 or so of profit that a building can produce in a year, they almost value that at at a million dollars. So, in having something like
this audit in place that's going to cost me like $50,000 a year, I got to come up with $3 million more to be able to fund this project just because the bank's not going to put up that 3 million. So, that that's why we've been stuck for three or four years. It's been because of
financing. So, for me to be able to do something like use that smart growth overlay, I just can't make it work because the the finances that they just don't make sense to me because I don't have that extra 3 million of equity to make it work.
>> And I actually, you know, Dan did Dan and I looked at I mean, this is going back three years ago. We did look at doing the smart growth overlay and I literally had a comparison from the same bank >> and and the difference of equity at that time and interest rates were much less. This is going back three and a half
years ago. It was $2.6 million less than they were willing to finance. >> Yeah. >> And again, it works when you could do 100% affordable because at that point you can qualify for some of those other grants. The only grant that if you're
doing 20% affordable that the only grant you can even qualify in Massachusetts is the HD because you're not going to be competitive going against someone like say Lawrence Community Works is doing 100% affordable but they qualify for all the state grants.
>> Um okay. Thank you so much for going over that u point again. So here's my concern, Director McCarthy. in order um the 40R um district
uh it's affordable housing is required. >> No, it's not. >> No, >> no. If you the the 40R is is not a district. It's it's an overlay district. >> Overlay. Okay. Okay. Overlay is a
permitting scheme that's placed in a certain geographic area to encourage the use of certain um tools to permit. And the state uses the 40R u by creating certain guidelines and making it much
easier for you to get your permits uh to build if you choose to do what they ask. And that requires 20% affordability um and then certain meeting certain um design criteria that's set up by the city of how they want the housing built
whether it's in historic neighborhoods or whether it's a you know mixeduse uh requirements like say on Essex Street. Those are the types of um it's a it's an incentive program. Now I've been doing this for quite a while. We've had a a a
40R district since 2006. And I have never done a 40R project that only did 20% affordability. That's the minimum. But I think every single project did 100%. Because as as Jesus mentioned,
there's there's these things called light credits or lowinccome development credits. There's also um historic project credits and there's a number of other uh types of incentive plans through the one-stop process with the state that makes it very um uh much
easier to do the affordable housing if you've got the right project and you can acquire the land cheaply and those in certain elements have to work. We've worked very closely with uh Lawrence Community Works, uh Bread and Roses Housing, um um what are some of the
others? Um but we we've done a lot of development in this Trinity construction. We done we did um about 180 units of affordable housing at the Malden Mill site. Um we're currently do working on I think 50 pro units of
housing with Lawrence Community Works at the Mariner Mill building. Again, that's on Broadway. So there are projects going on um that are being permitted for this um and again and I and and I'm I'm glad to work with any developer in the city who wants to bring a good project to the
city >> but this one we are not going to expect any affordable units. It's going to be market rate. Um what's the question >> for this project? >> Yep.
>> That you're presenting tonight. We are not expecting any affordable uh unit only. >> I think you need to speak to Mr. Tjo. >> Mr. Tjo just explained it to us. How difficult is to get finance? Uh
um how how difficult is to get those projects financed when it's a mix? >> Yeah. >> He explain it to us. I understand. >> Um and
I I I just want the people that are watching to understand um the differences and that nothing against Mr. Told uh um
project because we know that his projects are good for the city. to see uh but also we need to understand what is what we are uh given and what what are we getting back as a city
>> so that's why I'm asking those questions >> okay >> chair thank you okay any further discussions okay seeing none my lasting remarks is I've been left
confused in terms of like uh Mr. Tjo and I hope he does understand Mr. Treyo that this is not personal. Um I the questions that are being asked at this moment uh for this item had it been any developer
it would be it would be the same line of questioning. Um and I am familiar with some of the properties that you own. Um, and it's good to see people within the city of Lawrence be, you know, developing within our community and and pushing pushing
our our city forward. Um, but with that being said, I I feel like I'm having a hard time with getting a clear-cut answer. It's like one minute we're being told that um some of these So, it's 99 units. From the 99, my understanding is
that none of them are uh affordable. Not even 20%, not less than 20%. Um, I know I'm I'm h I'm going to have me personally, I'll speak for myself, I'm having a hard time uh to to justify me
approving uh a project like this despite that I am so pro uh development. Um, this project itself sounds amazing. Uh, but that seems to be the one the one thing that it's holding me back.
Oh, you have the floor, council president. >> Yes. Uh, I I'll suggest the follow >> I wanted to hear councilors Marmu, we w we don't know if she finished her statement or not. I wanted to hear the rest of that.
>> Okay. So, just to summarize, my thought process was I I'm just having a hard time to justify to to my constituents um how we're going to approve a 90 99 residential unit project and not one
unit is affordable. Um although I I sympathize with Mr. Treyo's uh challenges with the banking. I I feel like that's what I'm hearing that uh the challenges with banking backing and supporting this type of
project would not financially make sense uh for Mr. Tjo. Um but on the city's end, I don't see how I am able to justify approving something like this. Um I do want to ask the
our council president requested uh he requested what is it the last 20 years >> he asked for a spreadsheet of those spreadsheet. In that spreadsheet, are we able to see how many of these agreements included affordable housing and how many of these projects didn't?
>> I'm not sure. I'll I'll I'll pull it up tomorrow on my computer. >> So, I'm intrigued with that. How many have we've approved in the last 20 years? I just want to keep it in line with what our council president had requested. >> How many? >> The HIPPA program's only been around for
about seven years. So, >> so then then the last seven years. >> Sure. >> No, because I mean I request more than that. >> I like I said the spreadsheet I can give you the whole spreadsheet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm intrigued in terms of how many have been approved, how many
projects we've approved uh under the age dip where it was just market rate units and how many did we approve um with some uh affordable affordable housing units.
>> Um and now I'm intrigued at how many and which developers um did more than the 20%. Which is the minimum. I'm I'm I'm intrigued. I I think >> I think the answer and I and I because
I've been doing them all >> is that I don't think anybody who's gotten the H dip has done any affordable housing and I don't think anybody that's done the the 40i units has done any market rate housing. >> Say that again.
>> I don't think anybody who's used the 40R program to do affordable housing has done any market rate housing. They've done 100% affordable housing. the only the there's one building I know that used the rev reviviendo um actually I take that back the
Washington mill did it back in uh 2006 or 2007 they have 20% affordability that's the only one I know of and then there's another building that did 10% under the old oh they both have 10% cuz that's what the revivendo overlay
district from 23 years ago was 10% affordability Okay. I love the data that you're giving me now, but I'm not going to retain it. So, I'm still going to request the past seven years that this program has been um alive that you provide me with
insight. I >> I'll do that and then I'll do the research and I can probably mark down uh the amount of the percentage of affordabilities for you. >> Okay. And could you add also how many are compliant? Um sometimes we approve these projects and it's just we never
look back. Um so >> yeah um I I had this discussion with uh the housing and in in um what's it in living communities department because everybody who opts into the 40R program
uses the low income tax credits. They all report to the state for that. So, I can provide you I can talk to some of them and see if I can get you some of the materials on that. Um, but my my gut feeling is that they're all compliance because the state oversees those. >> Okay. Madame Clerk, I want to make sure
that you are retaining um all all the requests that has been made. I know it could be extensive, but um please let me know that you're you're good with the information that we have requested. That way it you know in our next meeting um
if this item does come before us that we have some sort of clarity as to any pertinent information that we had uh requested um in order to move forward with making a decision. >> Yes, I have that information that has
been requested. >> All right. Um Councelor Rodriguez, I believe you did you have anything that you wanted to add? >> I did. >> Okay. Council President, you have the floor. >> Um, >> what I was going to suggest is that
look at the like you mentioned look at the data. That's why I request that uh not only that this program instead I also requested the TF information as well. So we can look at the data. So who
is it going to be uh who uh what what project has been benefited by the by these tax incentives and based on that treated treat similar. Uh I'm I'm very aware of that uh of the situation happening on this project, but I'm also
aware of that uh of the waiting time periods and potential development of that specific uh building that we have due to the fact that um uh the developer has uh has has shown
and a good faith effort to maintain paying affordable apartments within the time range within that uh that uh the price limit within that uh Marmar Valley which is basically the numbers that it's it's uh it's considered affordable
around uh the that around the county because if we look at the numbers uh that affordable housing means it's not the calculation has been done around the
county which make it higher uh to the people from Lawrence but within the treasure of that uh what it means of the afford of the afford affordability affordable housing means uh their price
I've shown based on uh uh not just what they saying here but based on me knocking on doors and talking about rents uh especially on buildings around uh the downtown area. I can I can say based on
testimony that uh it is a lot more affordable than one of the developers. So what I was going to suggest is um that we look at the data and based on that we can uh uh potentially discuss that uh the agreement
uh with the developer uh with conditions if we don't believe that it is it is enough uh for that uh for us to approve but at least have uh have that requirement that they have for them to
apply for that the state tax incentive or tax b state benefits and not allowing them or not necessarily holding up the entire application because of uh our approval and what I
mean by this is like if that uh if the application from the state if we don't if if the council doesn't want to approve this application for the incentive at least we approve it with a condition that uh that if they stay approved then and
then we can uh we can maintain it and if it's not and then but because at least we giving them some an opportunity for them to apply at the state level and be able to develop this this this huge project uh that has been like that for a
while and the same way and and and if we if we visualize what is this what is this building is that uh actually that that uh canalistry is the worst looking at this time at this point. And I I know
I hope that if they get to develop it, at least they going to have we're going to have a building that is privately owned and uh with the affordable rents that is not affordable, but I mean based on the
rate that we have at that uh at that uh county level, it could be considered a affordable and uh and allow them to proceed with to stay with the application.
That's my suggestion. >> Okay. >> No, you you definitely um and this is going back to when we originally were looking at the smart growth overlay. Um, like you said, what they consider affordable for for their threshold of
HUD regulations, you know, in 2025, a two-bedroom, I think it's like it's about 2,300, which I'm not getting anyways cuz all my rents are probably $2, $300 below that. But now, if I opt into that, now I'm still not getting
that. But now I have a $50,000 expense. This is where it makes it impossible to finance. I'd be willing to bet when Dan gets you that list that it's either all affordable or zero affordable and there's little to nothing in between
because it it just doesn't work. And and you guys have seen the work that we do. I I we I'm the contractor and if I can't make it work, I mean it because I can cut some of the cost down. It just it it doesn't work and it's just the reality.
It's either they could do a 100% where you could get some of those low-income housing tax credits or or or or none so you can avoid that big overhead on that annual audit. >> And um
>> Mr. Ch, are you able to provide the rent roll that you mentioned earlier? >> I was going to ask that. >> Yep. I can absolutely provide that. I just can't put tenant names in it, but I can put >> No, that's fine. Yep. >> Okay. I think All right. It'll give you
It'll give details in terms of it's a onebedroom and what what you you get for the onebedroom, right? >> Exactly. I can put square footage. I I'll just give you my rental and just take their names out of it. >> Yeah. You could redact any person information. Okay. >> Yep.
So just to finish up my thought, um I think that I I have bought it for this program for uh for for to benefit uh developers uh in the past and uh and it is not just
to benefit developer. It's because based on the need of the of that uh of the market uh the housing market that we have city of Lawrence We need all type of uh all type of
of housing and and and that that means that I'm in favor of of every project. Not not necessarily, but I mean a a privately owned building that is looking for a a an incentive for
the next five years with the minimum uh tiers. I think that, you know, the fact that they're going to be able to just develop a a bridge that uh people are going to be able to use to get access to that to that land on that side, it is a
a plus to the city to be honest with you. That's the way I see it. And I understand that they are under the overlay. I support affordable housing, but one thing doesn't take away from the other. >> Okay. Any lasting questions, remarks,
discussions regarding this item before I'm looking for a recommendation? Seeing none, >> can I get a recommendation? >> Oh, councelor Lone, I
I think we had we have to be careful. Um, and it's good to provide information that we need, but at the end of the day, uh, and not it's not it's not very
specific to Mr. Tjo. Uh but I just want to put out there that at the end of the day most of our families are not able to afford in the city and some not somehow we are pushing them
out. >> Yeah. that needs to be remind. We have to re we we need to put it out there so people know that may not be the case with Mr. Told
Project, but just keep that in mind. We are pushing families out because they're not able to afford rent. Thank you, manager. >> Madam Chair, I would like to add if I may. >> You have the floor.
>> Um, thank you. We've been and I again let let me start off with something positive. Um I appreciate that the Tjo brothers did consider affordable afford a affordability that they they already integrated it in into their pricing um
into their rent. I mean and and I look forward to look to reviewing that data. But and and it's al it also kind of it kind of sucks that that Jesus is here taking the brunt for for a lot of this. But um
we've we've been very pro-developers for the last few years and and I disagree with the council president. Um I don't I don't think it's the housing shortage and I I mentioned this multiple times throughout this meeting is the fact that
to councelor um Luzon's point our families cannot afford to live here and that is why we have other issues. It's a whole domino effect and I'm not going to turn a blind eye to that. We keep adding, adding, and adding, but we're
not coming up um for we're not coming up with solutions for the for the other uh impacts that us approving continuous housing creates. Um I just uh I don't know. I with that
being said, I'm I'm just I I I appreciate the Mr. Trillo being very understanding and and cooperative and and you know having the additional information ready and I'm hoping that with the information that he will provide us and the additional
information that director McCarthy will provide us then perhaps I would be ready for a vote. But right now I'm I'm not ready for a vote to take on this matter. Okay, with that being said, do I have a motion? >> I would like to to I would like to make
a motion to table this item until we received the additional information. >> Motion has been made to table. Is there a second? >> Second. >> A second was made by councelor Don. Madame clerk, could you please call the
role? Sure. Councelor Wendy Lon, >> yes. Councelor Stephanie Fantes, >> yes. >> Council President Javanni Rodriguez, >> yes.
>> And vice chair Vivian Marmo. >> I vote in the affirmative. And the motion carries. >> All right. >> Thank you, councilors. I will um get working on those paperwork you requested and I'll sit down with Jesus.
>> Thank you so much, Director. Thank you, Mr. Tjo. >> Thank you guys for the time. I appreciate it. >> Well, we appreciate you. Thank you so much. >> Yep. No problem. >> Okay, the next and the last item I believe item on the agenda.
Please bear with me. Let me see. I believe it's item 45725 authorization to expand $50,000 fiscal year 26 earmark grant for the
handbuck courts we have our recreation directorly Gonzalez um isly with us I don't Isly with us or anybody from the rec I will um I will speak on behalf of this
item Okay, council president, you have the floor. >> Uh, essentially this item is an air max air marks uh funding that it's coming from the state and um
and the money was used to u advance that uh the humble core that is located on Oxford Law Street that uh park uh has been neglected for years. And finally we we took some um
we took some um initiative after so many conversation after so many years of uh of uh of conversation around uh this this board that has been neglected uh for years. Uh we the city um um
essentially have done uh some work. Um they paved the um the the they paved the core. They they also sunblast the the walls and uh and essentially they are going to be ready to uh they fix the fence, they
expand the core uh and also they're going to be able to uh continue with that uh with painting and reconditioning the the floating uh to a point that uh the humble core the humble core users or the people that
played humble they're going to be they're going to be able to enjoy the the the park. These air marks um was uh promoted by uh the state representative
Moran uh Leel Moran and it was uh bring up to the city so uh uh we can uh finish up with that uh with the park. Uh the city have spent uh some money out of the uh out of the city uh
city uh city funds to be able to uh this to be able to have this go up to the sanders. Hopefully uh we can uh pass this on to the full council so we can have a fully explanation as of uh as of
uh why um uh it is important for that humblers to maintain a core that is in a decent shape uh on the north side uh on this area and talk about a little bit of uh of the meaning of um of the sport within the city. Uh it is an affordable
sport. It is it is not an sport that you spend a lot of money to to play and essentially that's that's uh that's the airmarks. Um I believe that um it was scheduled for the administration to be here that uh we have a conversation
early and they asked me if I can take on the conversation about about uh explaining uh uh what what is it uh it is being proposed. So, >> council president, can I add or can I
ask um did they is there an explanation in terms of how the $50,000 are going to be used? Uh some of the work has been done uh already uh which is paving, sand blasting the wall, paving this the floor, sand blasting the wall, fixing up
the fence, painting and reconditioning with a specific paint uh the flooring uh bringing up the uh the court up to standards uh so the humblers can uh use it. So it
is not to propose the mural. It is not to propose because that disturb the players from the ash plane. Uh that's not the intent. >> Okay. But the $50,000 is it for previous work that has been done already like you
mentioned because I'm I'm familiar with the fact that they've already started working on it. Part of it is to uh pay part some of the work that the city have spent money uh and part of it is to to be able to uh finish up the work that um
that they need that we need. >> Okay. Counselor is questions, concerns regarding this item. >> Seeing none, I'm looking for a motion. >> I'll make a motion to send it to the full council with a federal recommendation. Can I get a second?
Second. Properly second. Madame clerk, please call the role. Sure, counselor. >> Um, I'm sorry, they're at risk. >> You froze a little bit. Go start all over. Please call the role. >> Okay. Counselor Stephan Fante. Yes.
Council President Javanni Rodriguez. >> Yes. Councelor Wendy Lung. >> Yes. >> And vice chair Vivian Marmmo. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Motion carries. >> Motion carries. Um counselors, I did want to mention
before, you know, unless there's anything from the tabled matters that needed to be untra that was here earlier with us. She pretty much waited, I believe, up until like 6:30, 6:40. she did message in the group chat that she had um something
pending at 6:30. Um therefore, she had to like um leave the meeting. Um with that being said, she did I I believe she was requested to come before us to kind of give us an update regarding the Federasbana. So, if we need to send out another
notification to invite her, I I'm not sure. I'm I'm I'm willing to to listen to what you know other members from this committee um suggest on how to deal with that specific item. Um,
do we want to keep it in in in a subcommittee level and re-request for her her appearance to notify us regarding uh any updates regarding that that the the funds that were supposed to
be allocated for Federana. Um, but I I'll give you guys the floor to like let me know what you guys recommend, if any recommendations or simply we just send another notification for our next meeting and
have her come before us. Okay, seeing none, Madame Clerk, send another notification for to have her come before us for our next um budget and finance meeting. Sure, I will. >> Okay. At this time, I'm looking for a motion to adjourn this meeting.
>> A move. >> Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Properly second. Madame Clerk, please call the role. >> Sure. >> Councelor Stephanie Fante. >> Yes. >> Council President Javanni Rodriguez. >> Yes. >> Councelor Wendy Lous. >> Yes.
>> And Vice Chair Vivian Marl. >> Yes. And good evening. Good night. And good night everyone.