Where do we publish it? Oh my. Good evening and welcome to the economic development committee. This is the this is today's Wednesday March 11, 2026. Um members that were assigned to this
committee voting members is councelor district Fland councelor L Selina Rees councelor district Efan Fante and councelor district C Gregor de Rosario at this time pursuant to chapter
20 of the act of 2022 this meeting will be uh of the economic development committee is being conducted both in person and via remote participation a reminder that a person who would like to listen or to view this meeting while
in progress. It might either attend to that uh meeting uh to the meeting here at the chambers or any of the following locations. This meeting is being also conducted live through the Lawrence City Council Facebook page as well as the Lawrence
City Council YouTube page. Um counselors, uh please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
all counselors. Uh at this time I going to entertain many uh potential candidates to chair this committee. There is any nominations to nominate.
>> I nominate councel infante second. Council, do you accept the nomination? >> No, I do not accept. >> Any other nominations? >> I would like to nominate uh council plant.
>> Properly second. Council, do you mind chairing this committee? >> Does that mean yes or no? As I mentioned, I'd rather not be the chair. Um, if the if the committee decides that they want me to be the
chair. Um, I will be then be the chair. U, this is this issue this committee as ad hoc committee to me is not a priority issue for me of other things that are important. Um, this is I'm not saying that the issues here were not important, but I'm saying it's the committee to me. Other things are more important to me to deal with. So, I'm not sure when I'm
going to be able to schedule the meetings. So, um, this is not a high on my priority list. So, if the committee is comfortable with that as I go into it, um, I can serve, but I I don't expect that there's going to be many meetings, if any, coming up this year.
>> Any other nominations? Um well then nobody's desire there if there is any other nominations and then nobody's desired to chair the committee. >> I nominate council de Rosario.
>> There is a nomination for council Rosario. Can you hear a second? >> Second >> properly second. Councelor Rosario. Do you accept? >> No I decline. >> All right everybody have the I mean we have one more candidate. Um
>> I nominate councelor Reyes. >> Second. There is a councelor Reyes has been nominated properly. Second. Do you accept councelor Reyes? >> I decline in that moment. >> Right. There is no nomination for chair. I >> think council president if I may.
Council Lant, >> last term, I I believe the city council got very comfortable with me accepting to chair a lot of the committees for the lack of interest of
chairing committees. Um, and I know I have a colleague that made a a a comment about me being the chair of everything, but this exactly what we're experiencing right now is the reason why last term I ended up being the chair of a lot. And
um even for committees that weren't a priority to me that I wanted to do other things um as a counselor, it's not just this. This comes with the responsibility
of a counselor and um it's very disappointing to see a colleague not willing to to step up to the plate to um chair a committee to one person's point that we may not even have many meetings. So, it's not going to be a burden. But
I'm already chair of two committees. Last year, last term, I was chair of four out of the five that I served. And um I'm not going to continue this trend of people being comfortable with me stepping up to the plate all the time to s to save this this council.
>> All right. Understand. Uh point well taken. At this time, counselors, I going to uh leave uh the presence of the committee uh due to the fact that if I stay, then we we might confirm uh um potential
on permitting law violation due to the fact that five of us are going to be um together in a in a committee. We have an item item 0726 that I I I hope that even though there is no committee or no chair for the committee um I believe should be
discussed which is the approval of the tax increasement finance agreement between argu stepping off. Thank you. >> I guess so we don't have a city attorney. How is this going to work if
we don't have a chair? I'm just going to remind everybody this is an ad hoc committee. This is not a standing committee. So the rules of the council ne don't necessarily apply as far as parliamentary rules are are concerned because it's an ad hoc committee. Uh these are so I we are all
here. Yeah. So, it's public safety. Public safety is a is a ad hoc committee. And now all of a sudden, because it's a it's a committee that you're not particularly interested in. You want you want to follow the rules and etc. But none of none of none of these types of conversation occurred while you were president and we had
public safety meetings. >> Let me remind let me remind you counselor that when we when I was the council president, I asked individuals if they choose if they wanted to serve in the public safety. It was not a requirement. And what my my approach was this. If enough people wanted to do
something, then we were going to be able to do it. Those were volunteers. Those were people who already had two committee assignments and they wanted to do public they want to do public safety. And in that scenario, I said if you have an interest in it, then by all means, we're going to do it. That's the model that I used. That's not a model that's
being used now. My understanding is that you did submit an interest that you were awarded the committee that or not awarded but you were you were um excuse that term that's not an appropriate term but you were assigned to a committee that you you did request.
>> Are you talking about this term on the committees for for this particular cycle? No, but you're use you're using the I guess the the strategy that you used in terms of committee committee assignments and my understanding is you requested the budget committee. You were
placed on the budget committee. Um for the most part we have multiple committees and for the most part minimum we all serve on two. This is your second. Um, I just I I just I I don't understand why
everything needs to be a problem. Um, and yes, I'm I'm just going to stop talking. All right. What time? We have a budget and finance committee meeting in 10 minutes. Okay. I don't get the suspicion that we're going
to be doing much on this tonight on this committee. So, I don't I mean, we can stay here all that we want, but I don't think it's going to do much of anything. So I'm I'm going to get ready for our budget finance committee. >> Question question that I have is this is why is this item here? This should be in budget and finance. >> It's money that we're going to talk
about in this item. >> I can't either. Not the council president. >> Let's go. I'm going to take you. I nominate council council deario's chair. >> You mean the motion for apparently she
made a motion to whoever and I will second the motion to whoever. Go right ahead. >> I will accept the nomination. >> I will accept the nomination. [laughter] >> Who's going to be the vice chair? I nominate I nominate Selena Rees for the
vice chair. >> Second >> the vice chair. >> It's it's an ad hoc committee. It's whatever. >> And who was running the chair because I lose the convention? >> Me. >> I accept him. Uh
>> all those in favor? >> I I >> bring it on. thought. >> Wow. It's It's amazing how how we do things. Well guys, uh councilors, we have a new item here which is item 0726
which will be the approval of a tax uh of an increment finance tiff agreement between ARGI LLC and the city of Lawrence for the property located at 470 Broadway and
we have Dan McCarthy uh planning director. Good evening. >> You hear me? >> Your mic is off. >> Good evening. >> Your mic is off. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Mic is off.
>> You hear me now? >> That's it. >> Daniel McCarthy, plane director, city of Lawrence, offices at 360 Marmax Street. I'm here today to present the uh a request for uh review and approval of a
tie agreement. Um take that back, a tiff agreement uh from economic development. Um the agreement is between RG LLC and the city of Lawrence and it is a tax increment exemption
uh program um application. Uh we've done a number of these. These are done generally to to promote business, create job opportunities and to uh improve certain situations of the city. Um, as you might remember about a year ago or
maybe two even longer than that, the uh area in North Lawrence that we call the Malden Mills uh overlay district was added as an opportunity district for the um for the for the tax incentives. Um this I believe is may is the first
application that we have within this district. Um looking for the um rebates. The uh documents I've provided you is a correspondence from one of the
principles of the LLC uh Raphael Guzman. There is a the tie agreement the tiff agreement itself which is document number two. And there's a set of plans for the proposed project. If you're down
in um down along the way from um Broadway, you can see that the uh project is is is substantially underway. Um and it's important I I think that we uh the these these agreements have to be
agreed upon and issued before any occupancy permits are issued. So, uh there is a little bit of a time u matter on this, but I have here with me tonight um Miss Yakra Inoa. She is
one of the managers of RG LLC, and I she's here to talk about the project. Um I of course am here to answer any questions you have about the program or the policies for the city. Thank you. Thank you. >> I am so happy that you guys decided to
meet and do this. Uh we've been waiting for a very long time for this. Uh so thank you. My name is Jakari Noah. I am representing RG LLC regarding the proposed tax increment uh financing request for 470 Broadway. Uh, Provity
Broadway is located in the Arlington neighborhood district. It's an under underutilized zone and our goal is to grow and develop uh that section of the city. Uh, and that's why we're here. We are looking for your support. So, I
would like to thank the committee for taking the time to review this request and for your continued service to the city of Lawrence. I also appreciate the opportunity to attend tonight and provide any clarification that may be helpful in making your decision.
The project at 470 Broadway represents a significant private investment in the city, including the development of a of 30 residential units with commercial space, contributing to housing uh supply,
economic activity, and long-term tax growth for Lawrence. The purpose of the Tiff is to help offset the extraordinary development costs associated with bringing this project forward while enabling the city to benefit from new
taxable value, jobs, and revalit revitalization along Broadway. We are fully committed to working uh with the city and appreciate the committee's review and consideration. Um if you guys have any questions, um
let me know. Another question >> in front of you is the plan. Um the layout. >> Okay. Council plan. So there's two things. One is process. Two is the issue itself. So I guess let me do the issue
itself. So you have me at jobs. You've lost me at housing. So when we have 30 more units, my track record as consistent as it can be has been trying to get a common sense housing strategy with in our city and right now through
the overpopulation through unlawful apartments and massive growth and spikes throughout the city, sometimes in mill conversions, sometimes infield housings all over the place and variances that are provided by the zoning board of appeals as well as the planning board. There is a number of different things
that are causing a real challenge in our city. Parking, education, etc. that we're dealing in our city. Um, and and trash pickup, snow plowing, how can we forget that? We will forget it in July, but I'm not forgetting it today in March. So, snow plowing is also an
issue. Um, so that is the concern that I have. So, it's going to it's not going to be an easy place for me to vote in favor of something like this. So, I just want you to get I could talk an awful lot about a lot of things. I'm coming right down to the right down to the final analysis. That's my reaction to
the proposal. I'm interested in in the jobs, not so much in the housing. Number two, less to do with you, Mr. Nico, you know, but more for this this committee, this ad hoc committee. Our rule six is very specific when it deals with matters that are referred to
the committees. It says in our rule six, the city council shall provide for the establishment of standing committees of which this is not one to which all business shall be referred for study and recommendation before any actions taken by the city council. So even if we do
something here tonight on this and even if we send this up to the full committee, this is not a standing committee. This issue still needs to be sent before a standing committee. Uh, if it was me, I would probably send it to the budget and finance committee, but
that's up to the council president as to where he wants to send it. So, you may think this is fantastic that we finally have a chance to speak this evening, but I don't think this is the final place that this thing is going to land for discussion purposes because our rules dictate where this uh how we how we
address this issue. So, that's all I wanted to see. U Mr. Chairman, >> thank you. Councelor Plant. Any other counselor? Councelor Vant. >> Thank you, Chair. I was actually going to defer to you because it's in your district. So, I'm curious to know what
you think about this project. And um one thing I I did note that it's market rate housing. And I think you've heard me plenty of times, chair, say that one of the issues we have in our community is that people cannot afford to live here. Um, so yeah, I'm just going to digress
and and see what what you believe as as a district counselor. >> I mean, anything anything happen in that district when it comes to develop it, I'm I'm all for it. It's been long wait for the uh Arlington neighborhood to grow and this
opportunity of a tiff coming to my to my district is something that I've been pushing for years which I seen know the tiff going somewhere else and people supporting it counselors supporting the tiff somewhere else fully supporting it plotting it the the the the
incentives to to people like and I'm going to name it to people like Salapolei which has had taken advantage big advantage of our tiff and everything that the city have have done. So having this in my district regardless
if it's in our hot committee last week I appreciate that you wanted know what my point was on that development which LCW was trying to do there. I'm all for it. uh it's that area well needed it and there's people that I believe they don't want that area to be developed and and
it needs to be developed that area where they created on the south and the south continue to grow and nobody says anything and there's nothing dividing the city between the south and the north but once you go muan line on Broadway it goes dark nothing else in there the
density of that place yeah it's a lot of people it might bring more people to the school but um Jessica Andre says something the other day that it kept I kept on my on my head and and I agreed to it and I agreed with her that day cuz I watched the meeting and she said that
most of the kids that are going to the school moving into the news apartment already are in school districts already are in Lawrence. It's people that we're going to move from those apartment that overcrowded they looking for a place to live. So I mean I'm fully in support and this tiff I've been working with
McCarthy for years and I thought it would never get here and again they we give and I can name it. We gave tiff to the healthy brothers. I mean, La Poli came here a few times and and it was yes, yes, yes, while this was standing for years and and if it's even if it's
here, they need an opportunity. I mean, if we needed to move it to budget and finance, we move to budget and finance, but they not going to be able to discuss it, but they've been waiting for this opportunity for years. And again, that area and my district need to be developed somehow. Even if it's affordable or nonaffordable, but I need to be developed
>> and and understood. I the district council is all for it. So I'm going to be [laughter] I'm going to support my colleague here. So and you guys thank you council um chair chair. >> So I mean can you elaborate to council plan how many parking spot there you
have your own I mean it's parking there's not going to be you have plenty of space. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Over parking. I mean you offering parking to the city. People park there and they don't even live there. People park there and they not even go to your to Yes. Yes. >> to your business. So can we elaborate in that? How many parking spaces will we
have there? >> So I I want Yeah, thank you. And and I will answer that question and uh to Mark La Plan and to all of you guys. I want to be very careful what I what I say next because I'm I'm going to say with passion and I want to make sure that you guys understand what I'm going
to say clearly. We're not asking for favors. We deserve this. We deserve this. We earned it. We have earned it, Mr. Lant. We have earned it.
Uh the building is there. The 30 units will be there. We need the tiff. We need your support. In that section of the city, we going to have our second phase is our parking garage. Next to that building
that we have, we have another one that soon we're going to be using for parking as well. So the value that we add is not just the 30 apartment units that the city needs. It's not just that. We also have
parking. And again, I'm speaking with passion because it is not the first time that we RG go males from one of the poorest part of the
city. We have we develop in that city and we need this tiff and we will appreciate it and to have been used on this scenario for me I didn't appreciate it at all because this fight amongst the
council is not good for the city we know more we need more uni united a united front to represent what the city really needs this is not just about RG we We need you guys to see more into the future and the growth of the city. And
with that it comes the Latino community. They also deserve the tiff. We do, Mr. Llant. And I appreciate it if you guys really consider giving us a tiff, sending this to the council. And
if it is that we need to be in the budget committee and the budget committee, when is the budget committee? tonight, tomorrow, then I want to be there. Whatever community you guys need to send us to, send us. But send us now. We don't want to keep waiting. We
deserve this. So, [snorts] the Arlington neighborhood RG Loc will have 30 units apartment. it will have we are within this package and I
was very being very conservative because I know it will take work in the demand of the requirements of the 15 jobs 20 jobs that we're going to be created creating so if you guys have not seen
the details I did a summary here it's a summary >> thank you >> okay not just the tip application but just a quick summary that's going to provide the answers to the questions that you have. >> Um I >> think this is that's also in here,
right? I believe >> now the summary I just did it for you guys today just to summarize the many pages of the application to make it to make it easy for the city council. So we have 30 units on the second phase. We're going to have a parking garage by the next I would say nine months. We're
going to have additional parking space. So we are going to be cleaning Broadway. I can passionately and gratefully and and being grateful to God for being here and to the city. Yes, we going to be making a big change in that
part of the city. Uh the small development that are going to come in that area as well and that is why we're going to be building a parking garage. So the answer that is associate the question associated with the parking we're going to have the garage and we're
going to have additional parking space as well. Um the other question you had and I can't remember right now has to do with the economic portion was it? I can't remember but >> affordability
>> affordability. Okay. So market Okay. Market housing affordability. Okay. They're almost the same now. If you guys need us to to make an amendment, change something, propose it. Don't deny my TF based on
that please because you know knowing Raphael Danilman Mariel Canary Noah we are all about the city we are for the city it is time that we also receive some of the benefits we need it
and we could use it >> thank you >> thank you black >> yeah I'm just to say this I don't want to belabor this I'm I'm very disappointed um in the angle in the approach regarding my opposition to this as if
ethnicity has anything to do with it. Uh it just disappoints me that we're talking like this at this point. It was very obvious to me where this was going. So I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed in the in the discussion and I I think we deserve better in this chamber to have a more
elevated discussion based on issues, based on facts, based on the things that I do to represent the people that I represent of which there it's >> I would have appreciated the question from the angle of what we have for parking. You know, that proposed I'm sorry.
>> I thought I had the floor. >> I listened to the whole thing and I didn't I did not interrupt. Uh so um my position I know this is I I know I I I get the sense this is being called into question. I can get it. I I hear that
Lei and Marramac is that's in my district. Um we can go through those if we need to. Um each case by case because every one of them deals with certain things issue. There are businesses that are there. There's not just there's not just housing. There's a lot of components that go into every vote. So
when I look at a vote, I look at components regarding that. The Mark La plant of 2014 when there was not as much housing issues is more is different than that. Things have have evolved. We have increased the housing stock in the city and skyrocketed with an addition to
unlawful apartments tremendously. The place that I can show that to you is through the number of automobiles that we have. Just if you look at that metric alone, just that metric alone, it tells you how many more people we have in our city today. And my my fear is not my
fear is not that we're adding more units. My fear and my concern and I happen to think this is probably the biggest thing that we're dealing as a city as underlying issue. It impacts our schools. It impacts public service, public safety. It impacts trash pickup. It impacts no removal. It picks up
ambulances getting to people when they're sick and they can't get where they need to go. we're dealing with it on parking. It crosses across them a lot of different areas. So the reason why we're looking at this now that I'm saying if we had a stronger ISD inspectional
services department that really started looking at the issues of unlawful apartments then we could start saying okay if we can get those out then we could put lawful apartments in because there's value in that. But until we as a city get our act together, which we have not, and I'm not just talking about this
administration, this has gone on for some time now. This is hasn't happened overnight. So, what we need to do and and I'm not seeing that where I'm sitting today as a 21-year city councelor, I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing it. So until I start seeing the
fact that we're going to be serious about dealing with housing in our city, it's difficult for me to start saying, "Okay, yeah, just bring some more on. Bring some more on because what that is is impacting across our city." Not it doesn't stop at a district boundary
line. It goes across and it doesn't stop at a river. It goes across. That's the concern that I have. And so it's my my discussion here is based on on evolved thinking over time. Think the environment has changed over time. We
are where we are now. We have a lawsuit against us from the Lawrence Redevelopment Authority who wants to have several thousand more units in the city. That is before the courts right now. And so I just if we're going to start going forward with adding more before we
even know what the result is going to be on some of these major issues. I don't think that's being very thoughtful. I don't think that's showing good leadership. I do understand that there's needs in the city. But I also my final point is this. Lawrence is not going to solve the
housing problem. Somebody mentioned this I think the other night. I forget who, but I was I I I took note of it. This is a regional issue. This is a national issue and we're not going to solve it in the city of Lawrence exclusively unilaterally in a silo.
We're just not. And so if we're thinking in those terms, we're just thinking about how much can we bring in. How much can we do? And it's not going to be enough. You're going to move people who are currently couch surfing into a unit. And you know something, those landlords who decide they're not playing by the rules are just going to fill that place
back up again. We're not going to fix the problem until we get on it. And so until then, until then, that is what I'm basing my decision on. That is what I'm representing my constituents on. That is the 13,000 or so people that I represent
for many years. That's the interest that I have for them. They may not all agree. You may not agree with those decisions, but because I see the whole pan, I see the whole I see the whole menu of what we're facing as a city. This to me is important. And and I and I appreciate,
by the way, I appreciate your passion. If you didn't have passion, you shouldn't be standing there. So, good for you. >> Okay. BL C Rees >> uh through you chair. >> Go ahead. >> Um I want to give you a comment to uh
RGLC. I want to say apologize because we delay for more than one year through this process. But at the same time, uh personally, I love the the project. I'm passing by and see how we development
our city. I'm so glad to see uh Mr. Guzman do this kind of project to serving our community. I'm so glad to see the kind of project moving forward in our beautiful city of Florence. Uh I want to make a a formal motion to send
we the full concert with favoring recommendation. >> Second discussion. >> There's a motion on the on the floor properly. Second discussion. >> Discussion. >> Go ahead. That's all. >> Thank you. Um, thank you. I I wanted to make a comment before the motion was made, but I didn't want to delay uh the
motion. I first want to address >> I apologize cons. >> It's okay. It's okay. It's still moving forward, so no worries. Um I first want to mention I think twice we've we've heard um uh concern about the lack of the quorum
that happened at the beginning and also um just a few a few seconds ago and I want to address at the beginning and I want to apologize for my part in it. I believe at the at the beginning I made my stance clear as to why I was denying
the chairmanship. However, where I'm at fault, I believe at least is the continuation of that of conversations or behavior. So, to you and everybody that were here during that time, I do want to apologize for that second part um of my
participation in that. And uh now pertaining to the tiff and the housing uh two full council meetings ago I made a comment pertaining to housing that um I do
believe certain areas need development. Uh what I think the the city should do to approach developments is to do an assessment of the area. Um, and that's why I lean towards the district counselor because I'm not I drive by it, but I'm not truly familiar with the area
and what occurs and what constituents are saying. And when council de Rosario mentioned, oh yeah, there's plenty of space. You're mentioning, you know, garage and everything, I'm like, all right, well, it sounds like it's in an area where it's going everything's going to be okay. So, that's I mean, my that's
my concern. And I think I don't know, director McCarthy, if you were there when I made that comment, there's certain areas in our community that is it's just so there's no space and we're trying to squeeze housing one way or another. And I think that's where majority of the concerns come from. But
um anyways, uh that's I wanted to to address that and um and I'm glad that council de Rosario was able to put to add some um clar clarification to the project in the area. >> And
[clears throat] a few years ago, I was I was part of the inauguration of the factory, La Factoriia, which was 62 units in the same area. And guess what? Those were 62 calls that I don't receive every day. 62 calls that I don't receive anymore
cuz they developed those 62s apartment with you. 30 units will be 30 calls that I'm not going to receive and I hope it continue to grow on the back. Lauteria has a project there and hopefully they we'll see them here and that area needs to be completely developed. Completely
developed. I mean we had we have a beautiful park. If we develop that the trash is going to go away. the people they out out there behind those those if you walk there we know who they are they're going to go away we're gonna beautify the area then it needs to be
done so I'm all for it so there's a motion on the table properly second it comes to questions all those in favor >> I roll call mark because uh she's on she's on Zoom so roll call
Your your mic is off, Mario. >> Thank you. Sorry. [clears throat] >> Council Stephanie Fante, >> yes. >> Council Selena Reyes, >> yes. >> Councelor Mark Land, >> no. >> And councelor Gregory de Rosario.
>> Vote in favor. Motion carries. >> Motion carries. >> Thank you, council. >> Thank you, councelor. There's no new items on the agenda. >> Thank you. >> Looking for a motion. >> Motion to adjourn. >> Motion to properly second. Discussion.
>> All those in favor? >> I >> I the eyes have it. Good night. Thank you. >> Loc for the Good evening and welcome to the budget and finance committee. It is Wednesday, March 11, 2026. It is now 6:58 p.m.
Voting members present. To my left we have the vice chair, councelor Vivian Marmal. To my right we have the council president Javanni Rodriguez and councelor Mark Lelan. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022, this meeting of the budget and finance committee is being conducted both in
person and via remote participation. A reminder that persons who would like to listen or view this meeting while in progress may either attend here may either attend in person here in the city council chamber or watch via our YouTube page. At this point, can you please join
me in the pledge? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Councilors, can I have a motion to
approve the minutes from the budget and finance committee meetings that occurred on September 10th, 2025, January 28th, 2026, and February 25, 2026. >> So move. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by the council
president, seconded by the vice chair. Any discussion on the minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. All right. Right into new business. We have the first item, item 62-26, SEIU Local 888, Supervisors and
Administrators Union Collective Bargaining Agreement. And this is for the transfer of $106,570 from current year salary reserve and other accounts to various salary funds
to fund this um bargaining collective bargaining agreement. And we have our CAFO here um with us to um talk more about this the CBA. >> Good evening council. It's Ramona Savage uh CAFO. So, this is the SEIU local AAA
supervisors and administrator union, and this is a three-year um contract. Um before you, we have the breakdown of the retroactive, which is going to go back to July 1st, 2025.
So, we have the general fund portion, $77,637. Parking Enterprise, $3,362. Sewer and Water Enterprise Fund 15,484 and grants $10,87.
I I'll go ahead and give you a synopsis of the um the memorandum of understanding. So, there's approximately 35 individuals currently in in this uh union and we have them set out as you can see on that
first page. uh throughout the city. There's multiple departments that have employees that are currently under this union. So, let me just give you Okay, so basically, again, this is a three-year agreement uh from July 1st, 2025 to June
30th, 2028. Um the first item um that was addressed in the uh MOA is um vacation. So currently this union if you have less than 5 years they have an approval basis where you get a percentage of uh your 10day vacation per
month. So this union was uh ratified to get a five days ahead of the um the beginning of the year and then every month after the the month of fe uh January they get 112th of the five days
left. Then [snorts] after 5 years they go back to the acrual process and they get three weeks vacation at five years anniversary. The second item is the upon ratification uh each employee will get a $1,000
uh signing bonus. And the third item is three um licenses. There's a small increase on water treatment operator, distribution water operator, and the construction supervisor. Any questions? >> Counselors, any questions or comments,
concerns for our cap? through the manure. >> Council President, >> just looking at um just looking at the the vacation portion of it. I mean, you give it you give us an example uh as of how this is going to work. >> Mhm.
>> I know that you just touch base on that, but I I want to make sure like I'm clear 100%. So an employee that is on it is within the city for a year they got 10 days vacation and then
after refer they acrew this amount of days of five days and the vacation per month work for the rest of the year. So can you go back again and explain a little more? So let's say an employee has six months working for the city on January
this January 2026 um they will get five days on January 1st then >> of that of that of that uh >> after six months of employment >> of the six months of employment. >> Yes. So then after they get that five days uh deposit if you call it for their
approvals >> then after that they will get 112th of the five days that they have left >> to accumulate the rest the remaining five days. >> Correct. >> Okay. Then by the time that they they're within a year they have 10 days.
>> That's correct. [snorts] >> What what is the difference between what happened before >> what happened back in 2016? um everybody went on a a cruel basis in terms of they got 1112th. So if an employee only had two weeks
vacation and and came January, they had to they had a day in January, a day in February. So they had to literally wait five months before they had five days. But if an employee wanted to go on vacation in January, they couldn't they didn't really have um any time to use.
So now we're we were able to negotiate. We're giving them five days ahead and then after the five days um they uh get 1112th of the left of the five days that are left in the year. Then once they >> And that that only happened within the first year.
>> No. Uh all through the five years and once they reach the 5year anniversary then they get three weeks vacation >> and that change. Okay. >> And that changes. So for the during the second year they will get after six months they will get another five days.
>> So this is for employees that have at least worked six months. So that's only applicable for that first. >> No I'm saying like walk me through on the second year. >> So let's say the second year. Yeah. >> They you stop their 10 days the year before >> they get another five days in >> on January 1st. >> Yes.
>> Okay. And if they use it and they leave in February what happen? >> That's it. And then the city's on the loose. >> Um, they use it. No, then yeah, they use five days, but they don't get the other five days. And that was the purpose of
it's kind of give and take. And that was what what was negotiated. That was the purpose of um maybe reducing the liability of not giving everybody their vacation upfront. So now they are only giving five days and then the remaining five days they have to wait throughout
the year to get >> and the way that it sounds is like they only give five days but in the way that it is in real life is like you need to earn it. >> That's right >> as you go. So you don't get vacation until you earn it and then you can accumulate based on your earnings. It's
vacation. It's not vacation given. So we're doing the opposite here just to be clear. >> No. Well, before um for all unions >> for all unions, this is the only union that's actually getting an upfront. None of the other unions negotiated that. >> But expect it. >> No,
>> expect it because we giving it to one. >> We negotiated for three years. It's going to have to be back on the table in three years. >> And then what we're going to have is Oh, this is >> I'll take that back. It was offered to every union as a as a benefit. And this
is the only union that actually took it. >> I don't understand it with you. I mean, we >> I I'm pro union. I'm a union member, but I understand that you earned your vacation. You don't give you you don't give out you don't you don't get vacation just because it is what it is.
We're here to just talk about the money. >> One more question. >> Um can I um vice chair? I want to piggy back off of uh council president. Is this also including three personal days? Um I'm just trying to understand on top
of the five days and then the acrual of vacation time is personal days um >> bless you >> part of this equation. >> No, it's just vacation. >> They don't get personal.
>> Oh, >> they get personal dates. >> They get personal. >> Yes. Okay. How many days? >> Three days. >> Oh, okay. >> So, you they get that on January, right? >> Um I have to go back to this specific union because every union has different specifications. I'm not sure when they
get this, but for even for sick time, they don't get it up front. They get a 12th every month. >> Yeah. Personal days is up front though. Or is it acred here? >> Um
I want to say it's upfront. Yeah, >> the three days and the vacation is on a per month basis. So you would get a 12th or whatever vacation you're entitled to and then for sick time you also get a 12th.
>> Okay. So just to make sure that I'm the numbers are sitting clear with me. Um less than 5 years is uh 12 days of vacation. >> Five days I mean 10 days. >> 10 days. >> 10 >> 10. Well, because it has one one per
calendar month. >> So, the way it works, January you get five days. >> Uhhuh. >> Then after that, you get 112th of the other five days >> cuz it's given to you throughout the whole year. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, it's 10
10 then plus the personal days would be 13 13 days off >> for the year. >> For the year. Okay. >> For four years. Once you hit you reach your fifth year, then you're entitled to three weeks.
>> I think that's fine. >> I'm so used to more on my with my [laughter] union, but I've been I've been working for the state for quite some time, so I cannot fathom the these numbers. [laughter] >> Yeah.
And these are for like uh administrators >> and supervisors. Yes. >> Administrators and supervisors. Okay. So, yeah, administrators and supervisors. This doesn't necessarily, you know, take into account um seniority
or anything or years of service. It doesn't >> So, this would apply for like a new employee that has under five years of service. After five years, you get three weeks >> and then you go back to the owner per
112th per month. >> Okay? >> Which will equal 1.25 on year five per month, one day. >> Okay? And as a new hire, there is no exceptions regardless of uh the
experience and background which would place them, you know, so it has nothing to do with like um changing their step grade or anything like it doesn't influence. >> No. >> Okay. All right. I'm almost out with my questions. Thank you. Any other further
questions or concerns, comments? Seeing none, I will now entertain a motion. Motion to send to full counsel with a favorable recommendation. >> Motion has been made by the chair, I mean by the vice chair.
>> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> I'll second. >> Um C, can we reflect on the minutes that the council president seconded? U Maria, please. Um any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I.
I. And the eyes have it. Thank you. Next new business item. >> All right. I have no objection. If the rest of the committee has no objection, we do have a tabled item um that one committee member is asking me to uh unt.
>> It's new. It's It's new business, but >> um it's kind of sabled. Um so, can I have a motion to unte item 7-26, approval of tax increment financing tiff agreement between our LLC and the city
of Lawrence for property located 470 Broadway. >> Where is that in the agenda? >> Second page. Second page. >> There's another >> motion has been made. Is there a second?
>> It's supposed to be business. I mean, >> all those >> discussion. Go ahead. >> I mean, we're finished. >> Is there a motion? Was it seconded? I'm sorry. I thought it was. >> I seconded. Yes, but it was to unt. >> Sure. I want it before we untud
finance committee agenda that was given a while ago in time for this meeting. And then what I just received is the revised agenda. >> And as I'm going through the revised agenda, [snorts] this item >> wasn't there.
>> Was not on there. So my question is when when was this revised agenda posted? >> It's on the website. You can take a look at it. >> But when was it post when when did I >> pardon me? >> Two days ago. >> Cuz I received today two days ago. What's today? Wednesday. I received from
Teresa today the agenda and it was not the revised agenda. It was >> they didn't they didn't do that right then. They didn't look at the website but it was posted two days ago. >> Theresa made a mistake. >> If she sent that that wrong agenda she did.
>> So So today's what? Today's what? Wednesday. >> So we as we know we've got 48 hours to post something. So if we did it on Monday at let's say hypothetically four o'clock, Tuesday, Wednesday, so that would would fit within >> here on the website is reflected. Um it
was posted on the website March 11 March 9th at 12:52 p.m. I mean, I'm sorry, 12:23 p.m. um Madam Chair. So, so it does so it doesn't meet the the it does meet the
requirements of the law that we post them within 40 hours. >> That's the question. Thank you. >> All right. So, there's a motion uh to untly seconded. No further discussion. All those in favor say I. >> I.
>> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> The eyes have it. Is this like the budget like the Uganda >> documents that pertain to this item? Are they in the budget book?
>> The should be >> I don't know if the document is here, but I mean >> that's my concern. I'm not going to >> It should be because it's a item. >> A lot of the documentation was provided on the previous on the previous uh
>> should be uh here it is. I think I just >> have not included >> the the agenda was was the agenda was posted and then the the >> document you have the floor. Do
>> can I interrupt for one moment? I'm so sorry. Do we have the background information on this because I'm not hearing your conversation, council chair. Okay, right now I recognize Director McCarthy. You have the floor. Director McCarthy. >> Thank you. >> Daniel McCarthy, planning director for
City of Lawrence, office at 360 Marmax Street. I'm here before you uh asking for a tiff agreement approval. A tiff agreement is a tax increment exemption financing package. It is intended for economic development. Um the agreement
is between RG LLC and the city of Lawrence. RGLLC is the owner of property um on Broadway. The um uh in in a site that we used to
call the Arlington Mills or the Malden Mills District. This is part of an area with a with a with a um overlay district. It was recently added to the city as a tiff uh opportunity district. This was recently amended two years ago
by this uh by this board. Uh the purpose of these uh these programs is to encourage uh investment and economic development in certain neighborhoods. Um I have one of the principles here, the
manager for the LLC, Yakyra Anoa. if she can speak a little about the project, but again, this is again an economic development project uh that's looking to make improvements in this neighborhood. And uh I'll have come up here and I'm
>> before president >> before she take the floor, I have a couple of questions. >> Yes. >> All right. So, are you are you done with your intro? >> Director, you're done with your intro. >> What's that? You're done with your intro
on the item. Okay. Council President, you may cut. >> Yes. Uh Mr. McCarthy, director, uh can you tell us about the agreement, the negotiation between the city and AR? >> Um what what are the terms? >> So the agreement is a is in part of your
package. It's a uh it's an incremental financing and what that means is that there will be a a waiver of the taxes over a period of time over a number of years beginning. >> So what is that first year? How that look like? >> So the the property has an existing
current base tax that will always be paid. Above and beyond that as a as an investor puts more money into a property the value of that property goes higher. M the tax increment says that the money invested into it will not be taxed at
the full amount for a period of time. In this case, they're asking for a 15-year term. The first year, the they they'll pay 10% of the excess taxes. We call them excess taxes. The next year they'll be 10, 20, 30, 40 and and consistently
down until they're paying the last last few the last five years of this you'll be paying 95% of the taxes on this property. So it's on page two of the agreement and the way it works is it allows investors
to put money in and in the first couple years are crucial to any new project or in any new development and it gives them a little bit of wiggle room. It's not a large pond of money, but uh over the course of time as a property gains value, it'll be more money be paid into
the city for tax purposes. Um >> three, >> President. >> Yes. Um u the reason why I'm asking you to go through the terms is because those those are the terms that the city have negotiate for us to approve the the city
council. So, it's a 15-year term uh with the schedule that you just mentioned. >> That's correct. >> Starting at 10%. >> Yes. >> So, is that something that for a um micro rate value housing is something
that is typical? >> It's typical. Yes, >> that's something that is typical. >> They range all over the place. We So, the because the tiffs don't have a defined um they can be up to 20 years. We we we have offered 20 years.
>> Um but you and and these numbers these numbers are typical. I think you've seen a couple in the last few years that were even larger than this. I think we did one for one of the schools which was larger because that was more of a a nonprofit type of thing. These are for-profit businesses, but it is a large
investment in the in the property. I think um Miss Noah will talk to you about the future development of this land, this area. Um there's the Arlington Mill District. There's a lot of vacant land. The This is the first new construction on this site. Um, if
you're familiar with that area, and I'm sure you all are, for the last 15 years, there was a foundation laying on the side of the road for about 80 ft of that block. It was a great blight on the city. So, when you go by now, there'll be a a brand new storefronts and
everything. And so the investments bring life and bring uh development to this neighborhood itself. And it'll allow the uh RG LLC to invest more money into the properties. As they as they talked about in the economic development meeting, they'll be buil they want to be building
a large scale uh garage, commercial garage that will provide parking for the entire neighborhood and many of the stores and many of the businesses and for new future development. But those are things again that Mr. Noah can speak to. So and and u let me go one uh madam
chair if you allow me to let me go two step back so I can explain a little more as of uh why this item is also here and not just at the economic development committee. The reason why is because as per rule six we need to send each item
to a a um standing committee and to avoid potential issues at the full council due to the fact that we already have a recommendation. I want to make sure that we fulfill that rule six and uh and of city council rule six and we actually
don't uh delayed the process when it comes to city uh uh rules and regulations. So going back two step further now let's discuss the economic portion of of the TE which is I'm very interested on. So you just mentioned
that we're g we are looking to have a a 15-year TE that is going to benefit uh this specific um developer for the next 15 years and it's going to start with 10% going all the way to 90 95% as
range. So what when it comes to funding when it comes to money that the city uh it's uh not not receiving perhaps because we're just going to receive the vase and then based on the increasement >> uh what's that means? What is the uh
what is the the amount of dollars? >> It means it means that the city's not going to lose any >> an amount of dollars, >> excuse me, >> moneywise. >> Yeah. Um I don't I don't the exact dollars on this but I I say the city won't lose any money because the base value is never going to change that's
going to be out. I just mentioned that. >> So in the first year it'll increase by the by the 10% of the of the of the investment value then 20 then 30 then 40. >> All right. And do you have do you have that amount? >> Uh not right now because you say that you me you don't have it but I mean do
do you guys negotiate based on that when you guys negotiate the tip? >> We do. It's sub it's it's submitted to the city. It it's it goes to the planning department and it goes to the tax assessor. Uh it's reviewed. The tax assessor then will do based upon the development costs will do a a
spreadsheet on the calendar on the on the amount of dollar amount of investment that the city will be taking in and then it will go to uh the mayor's office before it comes here for approval. And so the mayor could say no those numbers are out of whack. I don't think this investment's for the worth
that. you could say the same thing. Uh I'm telling you this is pretty much in line with the the the types of tips we've given out in the past. Like I said, we've given out larger ones. >> No, we've had >> you keep on you keep on mentioning that it's difficult,
>> but uh I'm going to question you on that. >> Yeah. >> Because as far as I remember and I have a very good memory. >> Yes. >> Long-term memory. Not short, but long-term memory. Um last year we
approved a a a lawn te for a for the school that has been built on Canal Street >> North Canal. Yes, correct. >> And that's the only one so far that I can remember that I have at least bought on that is over 10 years.
>> Mhm. >> The typical one that we have seen is five years. >> I think >> that's the most typical one that I have bought at least on. >> I I think the tips are usually 10 years. I think you we have another another the ones we've been bringing to you recently
are the tie agreements. It's the same mechanism but it's for housing. It's from another agency of the state and and when we negotiated that the mayor in this case um had a a a set amount of
money in term put into it. So that one it can only be five years and it can only be 50% of the value and that is for housing creation is not for economic development. As I said the last one I remember we did was for the school um the I forget the name of
>> Espans Academy. >> The Esparans Academy. I think theirs was a 10-year TIF. I believe they it was it started at 100% for several years. It was at 100% for maybe 5 years and then started going down. So, this one starts
out right at 90%. >> Tell me about a little more about that. Uh, >> yeah. >> The jobs that we're going to create. >> I I wish I had brought the uh I provided you a spreadsheet at the last meeting with all the tips we've done in the last 20. >> No, no, you you did send that. You did send that. >> And I wish I had in front of me today so
you could look at it, but that gave you a breakdown of the the length of them and the values. >> So, tell me about the economic development portion of of these of these um specific tiff. specific, excuse me, >> for this project
>> of this one. >> Yeah. How many jobs we're going to be creating? >> Um, I'd prefer to have Miss Anoa speak on that. >> Okay. >> Miss Anoa, um, name and address for the record, please. Jakai Noah Severino, 19 Man Holy Drive,
Metuin, Massachusetts. I also own 142 Andover Street in Lawrence, Massachusetts. Uh 530 Broadway, Lawrence, Massachusetts, and some other properties in Lawrence, Massachusetts. So, yes. >> Um you have the floor. The council
president had a question regarding um >> employment. How many jobs is this project going to create? >> So, uh thank you, council. um employment many but understanding that there is a process once the tie is given I was a
ver I was conservative uh so I listed 50 as a commitment 15 as a commitment in the application because I know that every year we will get a review so I want to make sure that we comply fully without any issues with those commitment
but quite frankly there will be more than 15 jobs uh at this particular property. >> So the jobs that you are t the job that you're talking about are related like walk me through uh some of the typical jobs that is going to be created for on
that property. >> So on the property management portion of the building uh in the management of the building there will be uh five jobs created there. But on the on the commercial space we're going to have a
TV studio. We're going to have schools uh on that and that's that the school is the one that's going to bring most of the pro most of the jobs uh because it's a big first floor in which we are going to dedicated it for um
for education and and youth growth. Um that's what the applica that's that's what we have put in the application. So, um let me let me just get that portion of
the application uh so that I so our goal is innovation on everything that we're doing. Okay. We are um uh we want to keep technology afloat. So that's what we bringing. We're bringing school that is going to be associated
with technology. We're going to be bringing a TV studio and a radio station, recording studio. So um that's what's coming on the first floor >> and based on that uh the first floor that is commercial
um is going to be the 15 jobs. >> Yes. Plus, you have the management of the building in itself is a a is going to be a company, you know, that's going to be hiring employees from Lawrence as well.
Um, essentially what I what I wanted to what I want to make I want to make sure that we we we are discussing is that when we are discussing a t here is is for a specific companies that are going to bring a specific jobs
sometime what I let's say perhaps a good example of how I evaluate that is the following we give out a t for uh a company in South Lawrence that is dedicated to a laundry machine, industrial laundry machine. And when I
analyze that specific tip, I remember that I was asking for jobs that are not uh that are not that are not u requiring like bachelor's degree. That was my specific uh questioning around because I
want to make sure that we bringing jobs to Lawrence that are not necessarily for professionals that for the typical uh for the typical person. So that's what I observed when I when I actually give out a positive vote on that because
>> um we have to have a market for everybody >> and and that was my my questioning around it's not my my only focus but that was one of the focus that I actually on that tiff was looking for that specific company they have u an specific amount of jobs and when we
bought on it we bought it for I believe it was uh 5 to 10 years and then we were discussing around that. But on this specific and then we have we have another project that we approved a tiff for right in front of u right in front
of um New Valance and that was for mate. So it was the two different programs uh that we that we approve and different different time of that uh period of the council different type of perspective. Uh here you have a mixeduse development
that are going to bring both um and and to be honest with you I have no issues whatsoever with the tiff uh when it come but I do have issues with the timing. I think 15 years is is is something that uh it's a lot
>> for the city to get back uh part of the uh part of the revenues that we that we used to be able to pay for services because it's not like we are rich city. It's not like we are we we need to pay for uh for services that the the
development is going to be a need for as well uh because everybody's in need of those development and the city of Lawrence for every dollar that we spend 74 cents come from the state. It's not like we are sustainable uh when it comes to our services.
So I have an issue with with the timing. 15 years I think is is a great amount of time. >> Okay. uh if that within the time of the approval and asking for um more time for the approval, but during the time of the
approval, I think that um you guys should sit down and talk about the negotiation instead of us saying no or or or yes and and kind of like, you know, and and be more trying to at least on my end, I'm not going to speak on on
behalf of the counselors. They can approve it next week. >> Okay. and and and I'm I'm fine with that. Uh I'm never going to question a vote for a city councelor, but when it comes to me personally, 15 years I think is a a great amount of time.
>> Okay. So, if I may, council, um I understand where you coming from. I I was the one who put this tiff uh proposal together and there were different approaches. We're not greedy. So I have seen in the past uh the city
grant 20 years and 10 of those year were zero. That's not our approach. That's not that's not that's we don't want to be greedy with our city. We want to be fair and because we want I wanted for this to just be
bulletproof and pass through you guys with no issues. So that's why when I was doing the formula, you know what? No, let's not ask for five zero tax or 10 years zero tax, you know. So that's why
I broke it down um on the 9090 8080. So I can come back. I I what you know I could have done like many other people did that they presented a a tiff request asking for 10 years zero on all those 10
years you know. So we we're not that greedy. That's not that was not the intent. So I will appreciate if you guys consider and actually look at the formula because it took me a little bit of back and forward and analyzing what was approved in the past as well. Um
>> just so you know just so that you it's different when you come to the with a formula with zero for 10 years versus you know 9090 80 70 um so I did it based on uh some sort of analysis and study
that I personally did um >> yeah I know and based on history >> I understand what where you're coming from >> um >> and on the bas Yeah. Yeah. And on the jobs you know we I I have a company's race services right now
I employ 45 employees all year around and we are adding another division. I am contracting more people. So we're growing and we are here and we are for the city. We belong in
the city and we are helping the city. So jobs will not be an issue for us. creating jobs, it will not be an issue. >> So, >> we've been doing it because we've been growing tremendously. >> Yeah. Thank God. >> No, and I'm very familiar to the building that you guys have on the on
the on the right next to it. Um, but when it comes to the timing, I we just received uh when you guys came the first time or before that, uh, we received that that um the information from McCarthy. I think it was before
your time, but not that long ago. probably like a month a month and a half ago. Uh not only under this item but on the another similar item and we have that information. I mean the good thing about it is that we can review all the tip what was given because everything was provided but when it comes to the
timing on my years and the council uh this is my 11th year uh I don't remember proving 88 a 15 year test. I could be wrong but I'll definitely going to go back to the spreadsheet. this would be good for us. >> Yeah.
No, I mean fundamentally I'm against it. That's the thing because I think 15 years it is a a significant amount of years and the city have done it but not I don't I don't remember approving
within my 11 years of service here but the city have done that before. Obviously, every time that we have a tiff, uh we have different circumstances. We have different timing and uh the economy, the local economy is different every time. >> Yeah.
>> Uh because I mean compared to the 19 the 1990s is completely different than the 2026 is is like different type of scenarios t years, the amount of jobs that were in need back then uh
potentially different than what it is right now. I know that the only thing that haven't changed in Lawrence is the population that we kind of like stick around the same number but uh when it comes to the economic develop the economic development of the city and [snorts] the local economy that that
have changed drastically and uh and I'm assuming that the council have looked at those at the time of approving those >> T >> and uh and I won't judge any of those. >> Thank you. I was I I was I was I was recommended to present a 20 year but I
did not want to do that just because I for me it's more important that it that it passes through quickly. Uh just so that you know >> uh but you know whatever you guys can um recommend and look at we here to work with and for the city.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um any other further questions or comments? count of the plan. >> Thank you. Just on I just want to make sure I want to talk about the substance, but I just want to on the on the logistics side. I just want to make sure
I'm clear. So, I got the stuff here. I'm on the economic development ad hoc committee. So, I received some earlier stuff this evening and in part of the packet, but did did all of us get that information for for this discussion this evening?
>> No. I I'm heard someone say no to me. So, I it it's one of those things. I mean, I'm I'm not going to necessarily be short shifted because I was able to listen and get some information. I don't it's actually in that room because I didn't have this revised document when I came in here to sit down. So, I don't
have the stuff in front of me. Um, but I heard enough in the earlier discussions in the ad hoc committee um on this matter. So [sighs and gasps] when when we I'm not going to I think that the the council president makes
some good points uh regarding timing and the length of time. I don't have a I don't have a a a tight memory of all the tiffs that have come before the city and the time frames. There's housing, there's non-housing. Most of them are non-housing. This is unusual to get a
tiff for housing. [snorts] And there's a reason counselors why madam chair why there is unusual for that because we don't necessarily need an incentive. The free market has provided the incentive today because it is so profitable to have housing.
So what it is is a tax increment financing but it's also the I could be for incentive. We're we're trying to incentivize and trying to provide uh carrots and enticements for organizations to do things. Usually, we do these for jobs.
Usually, we want to see more more jobs and create an industrial base. The council president rightly mentioned earlier about making our our budget sustainable. We're we're in the budget committee. We we get he said, and it's a little high, but I'm going to go with it. 74% of our monies come from outside
of the city. Okay, fine. I get that and I'm I'm with that. What are we doing to be sustainable? That that's makes sense. And so if we able to give get more through economic development, if we're able to get more through our tax base, this is it. We're not losing money on
this. I just want people misunderstand what a tiff is. We're not losing. We're just not. We're not getting as much money as we could be getting. That's what it is. And over time, we're going to get to where we should be. And that's the incentive. We're going to provide a less ownorous
resp obligations to the business owners to encourage them to come into our city to invest. That's what this is about. Many of those elements aren't here for this. You're in our city. You want to be in our city. You earlier made a in a
previous meeting said that we're going to be building these 30 units no matter what. We're here and we're going to be doing this no matter what. That doesn't tell me that these tiffs are truly and if I misrepresented your comment, I will allow you to correct me. Um, but that's
what I heard. But we want to provide that incentive. So, I just want to throw that out there. Number one. And number two, I don't want to go into this long dissertation regarding housing. I'm going to cut it as short as I can. We don't need more housing in the city
until we get our housing our housing infrastructure in our ISD working toward unlawful apartments working correctly until we get a handle and it doesn't have to be overnight but we understand this in the light of the
the headwinds that we're facing with the accessory dwelling units with the potential LRA lawsuit and potential more units that we could be facing in the city with that's really going to jack up the population and all the ancillary
dominoes that fall when we have more people in our city, schools, parking, etc. Housing, I mean, snow removal, etc. It I I can't in good conscience support someone that's looking for that incentive. So, while I will I didn't say
this earlier, the organization that is being represented this evening has a very good reputation in the city and has done tremendous work in the city and has built a job base in the city and for that the organization should be commended for the work and what they've been able to accomplish in our city.
They are stakeholders in our city. Um so I don't want to diminish the accomplishments that have taken place but I just don't feel it does I I cannot support something based on the problem not the problems but based on the the incentivizing and the housing I
I can't support this proposal. >> Okay. if I may. >> Um, so if I understand correctly, if I were to take my investment to a city that will provide me the Tiff, so
let me stop developing RG 470 and let me go to another city that's going to provide me the Tiff because and then bring that benefit to other city. So the benefits starts in house. If the
commitment of work and developing the city is there, I don't want I don't want to go back to my team and say, listen, this is how the city feels. They feels that if outsiders
come and promote jobs and say that they're going to do this, then they can give them the tiff. But us that are here that are developing and that we will continue to develop and that we also have will have the jobs cannot receive
the intent. That's that's what I'm getting right now and I I that I cannot appreciate. So um >> I think it's safe to say to not have this go further. Um I think it's safe to say that both yourself and the counselor can agree to disagree on on the ways
that you guys are seeing this tip. >> Yes. And um [snorts] u and that's obviously in your in your right. Yeah. >> Um counselor expressed how he felt >> how he's seeing it. You're expressing the way that you're seeing it. And I
think it's it's it's the points have been made very clear. >> Thank you. Thank you. So RG LLC will uh bring development to uh the city. uh we will create uh more jobs than what is
listed here just because of the way I work. I will come through with my commitment that are written here. Um and all I can ask uh the council is to keep in mind that we are for the city
that we will we will be creating job. This is an economic uh development tax incentive uh a tiff. This is not a housing um saving request that we are requesting
and it is for economic development and that's what we're going to be bringing uh to the city not just on this particular building that we have but on the other ones that is that are going to be constructed and in the creation of more job as some of our company will
continue to grow will grow and the new company that will come um and create the new jobs also So here in Lawrence on the first floor uh where we're going to have different um businesses
um that will give opportunity to our young professionals and on the construction side we have a lot of people making money create you know living in Lawrence that are not highly educated uh Giovanni but that they're
they're you know they're they're growing their family are growing they're buying their houses here So, we'll appreciate it if you guys really consider granting us this tiff. >> Thank you. Before we go to the second
round of questioning, I want to give the opportunity to the vice chair to see if she has any comments or questions. Vice Chair. So my only comment is um considering that you were part of the economic development meeting um and I could see how passionate based on the
discussions that we're having um regarding this item um I want to give you some sort of context as to where I'm standing right now with your specific item. um I didn't receive the paperwork and uh those that know me, I'm a
counselor that I am very particular um when I don't have documents in front of me. Um I don't I refuse to make decisions or be pressured to make decisions um on the spot. Um, I'm actually borrowing the documents that is
from uh our chair in order for me to kind of be up to date as to what you know what is being discussed. Um, so I don't you know I didn't want I didn't want you to feel blindsided in regards to my nonapproval of moving forward with
this item for today. Um, I I wanted you to have some sort of clarity as to why I'm making the decision that I'm making uh once a vote is going to be called upon. um on this item. I I think it's beautiful. Um I'm always for I'm pro
development, but again, there's so it's it's very I see a lot of information and I don't want to make a decision reading all of this on the spot and not giving myself the opportunity to to propose
important questions to you. Um, so I just wanted to have you be clear as to where I stood and why. >> I respect your I respect your approach and your opinion and I can ask you to change your mind even if the paperwork is here. But it's okay. I understand.
>> It is uh it is a lot and I I understand the counselor's point um wanting time to review it. So to make sure that everybody has the paperwork on this committee, can you or director McCarthy, can you send a digital copy to the
committee members to make sure that everyone's on the same page, everyone has everything? I know we were providing it before things get lost, emails, you know, so just please resend it to us. Uh thank you councilors. Any other
questions or comments? And this will be the last council president. >> Yeah. One last thing before we uh we just move on. I I want I I'm actually would like to make a motion at some point uh to send it to the forecast as a committee report pending the
documentation uh and for a specific reason but when I get to that point I'll explain. uh uh well the reason that I that I put in perspective I don't want you to uh misunderstand what I was trying to said at the beginning when it comes to me
approving tiff but when when when I approve t I approve it for the purpose of and and what I do is I look at the uh the need of the city at that moment and if I see that the need of the city based on data uh that is provided to uh the
council and data that we have um data that we have in front of us and then I look at that situation and that specific t that I was mentioning is because those job that were created it was the need of the community at that point. So every TE that I actually look into it is based on
needs that it needs that is uh a fulfillment for the needs of the community and is presented through a project that is going to bring a solution for that is specific and that's why I look at those tiff I don't want you to >> [snorts] >> um get the impression or take the
impression of me just approving tiff for a specific no that I approve is in general because at that moment it is the way that I see the tiff is a solution for an issue solution for a problem and that's that's the potential problem that project going to bring a potential
solution for that specific that is presented to us each one are individual I have also I wish that I can have more more more diff that I can evaluate because I'm not against I'm in favor of a potential solution and that's why I
see it and when it comes to terms that's something else that's a negotiation that the city do uh and present it to the council But I just want I want to make sure like you got my my the true impression of how I I look at this type
of situation. Uh when when I get presented to it, >> we can negotiate. >> So if the uh chair I would like to make a motion and and you can definitely open it for discussion uh to send it to the full council as a committee report
pending the documentation. And the reason why I'm making this motion is because yes, this item is on the budget and finance committee. But uh it was a lack of uh presenting information for a for an specific uh error that I going to
be taking part of the responsibility. It's not you that didn't send or McCarthy that didn't send it to us. It was potentially a a fulfillment of a rule that we have. And with that with me placing this item on this agenda, it was
going to fulfill that specific portion of the rule uh and potentially the documentation was not put in and I going to I going to be taking part of the responsibility for that. So with that said, madam chair, I would like >> appreciate the the clarification. >> Yeah. No, I actually clarified at the
beginning. I think that you were >> my water. Well uh at at this at this point I would like to present a motion as a committee report pending the documentation that we all going to be sending and share between committees. >> Motion has been made. Is there a second?
>> I will second the motion properly seconded. Um any further discussion on this item report >> as as a committee report? >> Council Le >> I just want to make sure I mean before as a courtesy of my my colleague from district D. I just want to make sure she
mentioned she didn't have the documents. I mean, I'm okay with this, but I'll stand by my colleague if she wants it to be here and she wants to be able to get the documentation level. I'm I'm with that. I'll support the the motion as a committee report. So, I I I don't know. I'm curious as to where my colleague
stands on because that's microsoft. >> No, by all means, support. You know, if you were initially planning on supporting it, support it. Hopefully by the time it reaches city council, I will have the documentation and I could ask,
you know, any questions that I didn't get to ask at a committee level, I'll make it at the city council level. Even though that's also something that I feel like we need to work on as a council body, I think oftentimes we're submitting things as a committee report.
And I think we use the whole committee report as a scapegoat from addressing the issues that we need to address here, getting the documentation that we need to get here to make the proper recommendations.
But feel please feel free to vote in favor if that was the the route that you was going to take. I still stand by I feel like that, you know, I'm I'm just trying to make a statement here. Um in terms of me not getting documents, I'm not going
to vote in favor of it. Um but I know that you received it. So by all means um I'm okay with whatever uh you feel you is the best way for you to move forward. Thank you. Any other questions? I'm
going to call the role. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> No. >> Um, Maria, can you please call the role? >> Council President Giovanni Rodriguez. >> Yes. Councelor Vice Chair Vivian Marmmo.
>> No. >> Councelor Mark Leland. >> No. >> Council Chair Stephanie Fante. >> Yes. >> Okay. Motion carries. >> No, the motion fails. >> Oh, yeah. >> Motion fails. So,
>> so that's pretty much complete. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the motion failed. So, what I'm going to ask I'm going to ask for a a motion to table rete 7-26.
A motion to table pending the um pending that to all committee members have the appropriate documentation [snorts] for the next budget and finance meeting. Well, then hopefully um the full board will be prepared to to take an action on it.
>> When do you guys meet again? >> So, it would be not this Wednesday, but the following Wednesday. >> Okay. >> We've been at it since last year, but thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. >> Can I have a motion to table item 7-26? >> So, moved. >> Second.
>> Motion has been made by the chair, seconded by uh Councelor Lelant. No discussion. All those in favor say I. >> I. The eyes have it. I think someone wanted to say something. I don't No. Okay, we're good. All right, moving forward. All right, I first want to say
thank you to the next um person that's going to be presented. I'm going to be presenting the next item because he's been here since 6 o'clock, I believe. It's almost 6:30 and he's been very patient. So the next item we have is item under new business item 63-2026
appropriation transfer in the amount of $200,000 from free cash um ARPA account from the free cash ARPA account to Marramac Valley workforce board for AI workforce training for Lawrence residents between
the ages of 18 to 25. And we have the executive director of u the Marramac Valley Workforce Board. >> Good evening, Madam Chair. Frank >> Bonet and our current personnel director. >> Yes, Frank Bonet. U executive director of Mass Hire Marramac Valley Workforce
Board. Also a resident of the city of Lawrence, 33 Dartmouth Street. Our offices are at one Union Street. Um I'm okay with you getting my colleague in the Lawrence Police Department if you want to take something out of order. Um I mean that can be long. >> Oh that
>> you sure it's long? Okay positive. I wasn't sure if you had to go back there crime fighting because that's more important than this. You know what I'm saying? >> Listen if it was a regular budget hearing they they would be I just feel bad for a little bit for a couple but careful. This is great practice for me. [laughter]
>> Okay. So um we we provided uh each of the council members uh a full thorough report. probably as thorough as I I thought it could be. If you have any questions, I'll be able to answer them tonight. But, uh, we enclosed a report um um composed by Mass Hire for you to
provide um a $200,000 uh funding from the balance fund available for free cash ARPA account number 1 190810-5113. Uh, and those funds uh are from a $400,000 currently uh allocated balance for the purpose of establishing a youth
artificial intelligence workforce training to be administered and managed by the workforce board here. Uh but only for Lawrence youth, right? Because it's Lawrence funding, right? And and we've done that in the past with some other funding that the city of Lawrence has
been able to get some re-entry program funding through former Dan Rivera, through Mass Hire and stuff like that. So, we um on a discussion with the administration of uh the current administration, the mayor's office, uh you know, we wanted um
we thought it would be feasible to do this for youth 18 or 25. Um and they are more wanting to do [sighs] uh high school students, all the high school, any high school in all the high schools here in Lawrence, right? I think we have three or four different one, Phoenix,
Lawrence High, we have some other ones as well. So anywhere between the ages of 16 and 18. Uh but we still have funding for those 18 or 25 through some other programs we do. So um we provided a uh a
one pager to uh hold this in um the agenda. Basically what we want to do is deliver uh curriculum instructions to high school. I've been in conversation with the headmaster Victor Karavayo down and he's just starting to talk about AI.
Uh so so I'm not quite sure how far I mean I know it was a long report and I apologize for the lengthy report if you took a long time to read uh but I'm here to answer any questions so that way I don't be redundant on the report. Um has a lot of data, a lot of statistics on
where we're currently at. But but the short version is that AI is the future. >> Um and at this moment we don't have programs here in Lawrence for AI. I don't even think we have a list of training providers that are providing a lot of or a lot of training providers
that are providing AI. There are a few and they're outside of the city, but they're willing to come in to do group training to high school students in a classroom environment, a traditional classroom environment. Um, and and it has benefits for for many. It has benefit for businesses. Uh, it has
benefits for the youth. It has benefits for people who want to learn NI and use it in their workforce. uh and it's not about writing AI, it's about how to use AI in an industry, in an occupation or in a business and how
beneficial it can be. um at this moment um you know there's some uh in the report there's some statistics about how how youth are using AI nowadays uh and how parents understand AI and what AI is being used for and also some data that
talks about how AI will be used in the future. Um, you know, last year when, well, a couple of years ago when we created our regional blueprint for the Marramac Valley, there were three industries that we believe were top-notch career path industries, right?
The healthcare industry, which still is. Um, we talked about the advanced manufacturing, which is still a little wobbly because of the present um, political environment and the uncertainties, but it was our third one.
it no longer is that important because AI is about to take over it. There's in in the report there's also I'm I'm not sure if I I provided to you, but I do have um I I'm not sure if you've heard of anthropic. I mean, it's been all over the news this week and last week.
Anthropic is the AI. They use clawed AI and the government was using it for their benefits until the president asked for it to be used for defense and war purposes and then Anthropic said no and they canled all the federal contracts
and no now chat GPT is working with the government but the Anthropic came out with a report this week that has labor market implications on where AI a new measure and early evidence of the top 10 jobs that will be eliminated. because of
AI. >> I saw for I was it Forbes Forbes a few months back I want to say like two three months prior um released a similar report and I think it was like the 40 jobs that are going to be eliminated due
to AI predicted >> and they're coming and they're coming very quickly. They're coming very quickly. Uh the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is is making arrangements as well. We we're using as part of AI because there are some restrictions in the state of allowing uh state offices
or systems because we use state systems to use chat GPT deepseek perplexity or or any other co-pilot and so they have their own chat GPT which is walled off from the original chat anyway. So top 10 uh positions that are being most
affected at this moment uh is computer programmers, customer service representative, data key entries, medical record specialists, market research analysis, sales representatives, financial and investment analysis, software quality assurance, information security analyst
and computer. So our third occupation that we thought was going to be career path driven is is being affected right now. Uh and then you know I can give you this report. It's it's it's in the website just came out. Um and it's about a 15page report, but it breaks it down by demographic, education, and labor
market. But the good thing about it is that it tells you what um what industries will be, you know, benefiting from AI in the future. And we have a lot of them here in the city. Um we have a six I think uh our December 2025 report, which was the last one to
come out because they were always about 45 days behind. We're at 6.4 unemployment. Um, we're the highest unemployment in the state. We've always been the highest unemployment state. Actually, when I took over the job of vast hire, we brought it down to 4.1. Um, however, new administration, the
federal government has different uh priorities of how they're going to go about in the workforce. Uh, and um, they have been laying off a lot of individuals. Federal government um, advanced manufacturing have been getting a hit because there are tariffs to the
supply chain. So, a lot of people have been being laid off. So businesses are not hiring a lot. They're not laying off a lot, but it's ones and twos here and there. And mostly it affects uh you know people like in the city of Lawrence. So we we've gone up to 6.4. We're the least
educated uh city in Massachusetts. I believe 15% of our um residents have uh degrees. Um and we got 90,000 vehicles. Right. We've heard that number. >> How many? >> 70,000. >> 70,000. I thought it was more like 89,
but and then add, you know, another 25 to 30% of individuals that don't have vehicles, and you're you're talking about a city with at least 120,000. So, census records with 89,900 is not that I I don't I don't really take that. But anyway, we have a lot of people that could use this fund. We
talked about Mass Hire has money. And there's a question in there that I answered for you. Why the city of Lawrence when Mass Hire has WEEOA funds? We always workforce innovation opportunity act funds that come every year. This year they has been less. The
state also provides funding for our youth. This year has been less and we're fighting um you know our workforce association Massachusetts is not fighting but we're advocating and lobbying our representative and state senators for more funding next year or at least a balanced fund. So we seeing
less and less funding. What happens is with WEO, it has uh very restrictions on who qualifies, income level. Um and and most of these students who don't work and are about to graduate. Actually, in 2023, the the Lawrence High School, 51%
of the students did not go to college. 51%. That was 2023. We don't have 2024 2025 numbers because they haven't come out. They haven't they haven't been produced. That means that 51% either went to work or stayed unemployed. And when you and when you talk 6.4, it's
that number is high because it's the highest number percentage wides across Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but it's only 4,500 people out of, you know, the census number. Um, so, so 51% of the student Lawrence High School didn't go
to college. They decided to enter the workforce for whatever reason. Maybe they live in a in an apartment with mom and dad and they need that third income to pay for rent and everything that is increasing. Maybe they have a child or a single parent and they need that. Maybe they just don't feel that college is for
them. Maybe they just can't afford college. Whatever the reasons are, right? They decided not to go. So we we have been working with Lawrence High School of of course we've always worked with the Greater Greater Lawrence Technical Schools on on everything, but to try to get individuals interested in
work and then try to get them to work here in Lawrence. So the best way to do that is for us to be in the forefront of technology and uh provide them an opportunity for something that they may want. And so individuals that don't qualify for the WEOA funds and don't
qualify for state grants because the state grants is more like youth works for summer higher just to get them working uh and get them used to working in in a workforce environment. Um this is what the $200,000 would provide. Now, I also come with another question you
might not accidentally answer because after I created my report and sent it to you, I found out that this Commonwealth of Massachusetts is providing free Google AI training. >> So, I was going to mention that. [laughter] >> However, I I come prepared with answers.
Hold on a minute. I actually, if I may, um, donate, I I wasn't even going to add I was actually my comment regarding what the governor's announcement is that I think this is perfect timing for the city of Lawrence to do something like this given that announcement
>> and um I actually I was like, let me see what this is about. I signed up. I'm waiting for them. They It's this whole process confirmation and everything within 24 hours. So, I haven't It was just last night, but um curious to see that. Here here's where we differ. Here's where workforce differs from what
Google AI is at. Right? So the state program provides a stool a tool. They don't provide the workforce training. Right? >> Uh they don't provide a structured workforce curriculum like where we will be doing. They don't provide industry recognized training pathways. They won't provide employer partnership. All of
this we will provide. They won't provide career placement or internships. And they don't provide local program administration. All they're doing is giving you the software for you to go online and take the training for free, right? So, our proposal is about workforce development, not so solely
about software. Um, and and also the the the state program is a little bit broad. Ours is more local, right? We we want to focus on local employer partnerships, industry specific skills that uh align with us here in Lawrence, targeted outreach to Lawrence youth, and local
mentorship and internship pipelines. Um also many residents you know they can't access state resource without training support and we provide training support whether through the career center or the workforce board. We um there are barriers in the city of Lawrence that you would not believe. I mean some of
our biggest barriers are child care, transportation and the English language, right? Uh you need to know enough English to take a test so you can get certification licenses. That's where all the funding we're allowed to use funding only if these training programs will get
you a certification or get you a license and then we'll place you. So there's a lack of digital literacy here in the city. We will provide that through our curriculum. Um of course language barrier that there's a lack of mentorship and guidance and and there's no structural learning pathways but we
will provide this is going to be a ESOL pathway support. there's going to be language structure included in the in in the program. Uh workforce coaching, uh guided AI learning, and of course a career pathway. So that way we can place
them in jobs or industries or occupations that closely aligns to what they feel they want to do. And of course, we have career counselors, business support counselors. You know, you just don't walk into the career center and say, you know, I I want to work here. We sit down. We look at your
resume. We look at your your your your background, your experience, your lack of experience, your lack of education. There's testing that's done. Uh we won't put you in a position to fail, but we will provide you counseling that tells you, hey, this is the best place where you should be going to. This is what you
like. Um uh and our our program is going to actually leverage state investment as well. Um you know we're we're designed to uh deliver uh you know this type of training because we we align with the market training uh where employer
engagement we got career path and um and we got other training investments. So we have wea funds that can pay for this but only if they qualify income level and when you look at students that don't have jobs they have to qualify with their parents' income. So it's a family income. So that's where a lot of them
fall off and don't qualify for WEOA because their mom or dad is working and so they're above that >> I think I I think in the report there is the um the uh the poverty level line that tells you how much and I think it's like and and that's the higher version
right I think I think it's like 15 or 17 but for the Lawrence they use what they call the LII which is like 13,000 uh it's even it's even lower so you have to like really qualify Um so you know the Commonwealth may provide AI tool but the tools alone they don't they don't create the workforce
where we we are there to ensure that >> you know the the residents um learn the skill we can mentor have mentorship and career pathways uh and then not only that but support the businesses right because we're placing businesses here in Lawrence and businesses here in Lawrence
I think only 4% in the whole United States are using AI for businesses I don't know how many businesses in Lawrence are using AI I'm pretty sure it's very a very low number but you know our highest our our regional blueprint um has a list of all the industries in
the Marramac Valley but I've done a gaps analysis only for the city of Lawrence and I've provided that to the economic development department here in the mayor's office as well uh that tells you the the gaps analysis for Lawrence and in Lawrence we have hospital our our biggest business is not pharmaceuticals
it's not green AI it's not solar or anything like that although we do have some advanced manufacturing companies here like high fridge and stuff like that but it's hospitalities retail we're talking about we just opened up uh providing funding like three years ago the board took a vote to provide funding
for hair salon barber licenses nail technicians because we weren't we didn't think that was well not we but the board didn't think that was a career path driven uh you know industry that they wanted to go in however seeing Lawrence how the population of those businesses
are here and how much now it costs to get a haircut or you know go to the butician or get your nails done. It's a money-making opportunity and we just want people to work right. We want to get this unemployment down. We want people who have some money in the thing. So um you know anything with license and
certification I say we we take up but those businesses don't use any AI to make their businesses better to provide reports to provide policy to create you know to upload an Excel spreadsheet and see where how they can invest how they can expand and I think that our youth
you know are ready for that. I I don't think I'm ready for it. still learning, you know, I'm still learning co-pilot and chat GPT and Perplexity um every day. Uh but these youth nowadays, there's uh some statistics that tells you how they're using um how they use an
AI and mostly they're using for homework. >> I was going to mention that I saw the chart with it, which by the way, thank you for this report. >> Yeah, that's the Pew project double space. We often times get reports, you know, I'm like [laughter] >> I love double space. so much
information, but yes, I saw that and particularly black and Hispanic um students are the ones using AI for school work. And that in my head, I mean, I think about if I had AI growing up, I mean, I was my my dad was working
a lot. He's he's the one that that knew English the most within, you know, aside from the kids, but within but within my parents. And if I had AI, that would have helped me be true. >> Oh my god. Yes. Because you're often times sitting, you know, I the the students are often times sitting in
their room or on the kitchen counter table and they teaching themselves, >> right? >> And what until this day some of this still occurs. They are embarrassed to ask questions during during the the classroom lesson because they either
don't want to get bullied or, you know, whatever the case may be. Um, so I and I see that and perhaps the parents that do have some understanding of educational curriculum, they may be working two to three jobs in our community. >> Yep.
>> Yeah. >> So I saw that. Um, >> and I think it's important to teach them how to you use AI responsible. Right. Right. >> You you hear these these these crazy stories about how that people are using AI as a as a partner, right? As a as a
as a confidant. And um I mean I've even heard some stories not too long ago about someone committing suicide because that's what that AI told him to do, you know, and I'm like, "Oh my god, you have to use it responsibly how how best to use it." So I think we need to educate our youth on that. Uh I'm working with
Victor Uavo. Actually, I I wrote to him last week. Uh he has just begun his AI thing so we can match whatever he has. But we also want to, you know, target some of the other high school students here that may not have the opportunity of that, like Phoenix, uh, and I think
there's another one here. I forget the name of it. Uh, and maybe, uh, find out how we could use the Lawrence students that are going to the greater large tech because we can't use it for everybody at the tech. >> And if the superintendent Yeah. If the superintendent says no, if you can't
give it to everyone, we're not going to have it because that that's it's up to him, right? If he says you can't, we can use it for all the students, then we don't want it. I we can't. The funding is for Lawrence students is Lawrence City money can only be used for Lawrence youth. >> Yeah. >> Thank you.
>> So if you're if you're greater Lawrence Tech and you're from North Andover or Andover >> No, no, we we get that. No, no, we got it. We got it. >> But that's up to superintendent. I haven't spoken to him yet. Yeah. >> Informative um overview and very detailed um overview. I actually got a chance to
read some of some of this. Um I got it earlier when I when I came into the office earlier this week. But I do want to give the opportunity to my colleagues to ask questions or make comments on on this proposal if they have any
>> vice chair. Um how many students would this uh the this 200,000 would cover for the program? >> Yes. So we we want to do at least 50 students. Um and it's only for one year, right? We we're not asking for two,
three if that's the case that comes in next year or something. We'll come back. Um what we're trying to do is uh put an RFP out and see what businesses or training providers submit, how much they can do with the amount of funding that
we have. Of course, there's some funding that will go to the training providers, but also we have case management that we have to pay some of our people in the career center so forth to do that or in the workforce board. They do career they do career path, they do case management. They're the ones every day calling
students making sure if there needs to be a stipen or some sort of payment for it reaching a a specific level that that's also, you know, that would be RFP. whoever whoever proposes the RFP and what that amount would be.
>> Um I see that this has not been developed yet. >> No, the curriculum has not been developed. But however, there is a there the the state of Massachusetts, the Commonwealth, in order for you to provide training. You have to be approved by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. They call it training
pro. You have to submit your curriculum. They have to approve your curriculum and then they put you on the list. And then once you're on the list, then you have to submit the curriculum to the workforce boards. Whatever regional workforce boards you want to work with, we review it and then we enter into an agreement of particular funding that you
all we allow. If you are approved for individual training, which is getting one person, you know, virtual training, then that's career center. If you are approved for group training, that's through the workforce group because we do case management by the group. Uh and
then youth works is is a whole different type of state funding on that one. So um >> but who is Mass Hire collaborating with to create this to design and create this curriculum? So the c the curriculum is probably already created. The training provider will submit that and say hey we
can we can do let's say you're a training provider and you're a training provider right you have your curriculum and they have their curriculum but you can say with my curriculum I can train 50 individuals at this current price and you can say well with my curriculum I can do 40 individuals at this particular
price. It all depends on how long the curriculum is, how many weeks of training and what's the cost. So right now there is no I can't tell you which curriculum we're going to use because they haven't won the bit. >> So just to make sure I'm understanding the process because I'm looking at your
phases. So for phase one where it's um it says one to three months >> program development. >> So it will take one to three months in order for this RFP process to be submitted and to uh for you guys to choose uh who who's
the company that you guys are >> right. We're we're right we'll write the RFP up as to what we're >> So that'll take one to three months. Okay. >> So okay >> um you answered my question in regards to that. We don't know yet who we're working with and who we're collaborating >> and we have to write the RFP up, right?
What are we looking exactly? What do we want in that RFP? Do we want them to do case management? No, we haven't. We have it. We have we because we we don't we don't have the funding. >> Once we do have the funding, we do. and and and and I think I put on the report
that we will continue providing the uh the city council a report and if you want that report on a monthly basis, we could do that as well on basis. >> As to what are the criterias that you guys you guys are in particular that are requesting this funding?
>> I have a program manager who's an expert on that. >> I'm curious as to what are the criteria that you guys are looking for when submitting the RFP. And and I also want to include the Lawrence High School in this, you know, to or of the other high schools because, you know, they're educators, so they are more intelligent
as as far as what they believe should be in a curriculum, you know, >> or at least an RFP, what they want, you know. Okay. >> Are they looking for case management alone? Are they looking for afterwards employment uh, you know, uh, placement? Are they looking for a particular
certification on a particular AI program? Right? because if they want to they if they want a certification then we have to put the RFP certification and whatever you know whatever it's out there that's certified. >> Okay. Um the next question and I'm
actually super curious as to what like walk me through the recruitment process for these students. Is it based on a lottery you know cuz what if you get 500 you know interested >> no and that's good. Yeah, we can. >> Are you guys I know the income cuz you
talked about the whole household size and based on the poverty line, but walk me through as to how you guys make the decision as to who gets accepted. >> Right. So, so we're going to be working with the with the with high schools on this funding and the $200,000 and those for individuals that don't qualify on
the WEOA or any other group WEOA funding. We'll take care of those that qualify, you know, the low incomes, the ones that are homeless, the ones that are foster kids or whatever the requirements are to to get we owe funds. We can pay with funds and those funds are already there. I don't need approval
from anyone except my signature saying you qualify, we're going to get you this program. So, we may have 500 students go. However, the WEOA funding is for everyone in the Marramac Valley, not just Lawrence. This is only for individuals that may fall to the crack
and don't qualify. So, their families make just a little bit over that line or maybe a lot over that line. And so, we'll work with schools to see, you know, what what what the recruitment looks like. And we do it every year with our youth works. We have just enough
money maybe to hire 300 students through the summer and about 50 through year round programs through youth works. And it's all, you know, based on school. We we we work with the schools and they they recommend who is serious that they want to go through a career path who may
not be serious, who may not work out and things like that. Yeah. >> So the school has a lot of weight. >> Yes. A lot of weight. Yeah. And for the most part they they have almost all the weight. Let's say 90 90% of the weight. And what we do is like hey these individuals work last year and the year
before. We want to continue because you know with youth work there is steps uh 14 15 uh 16 17 18 or 25. So there's different steps of career path. Some just come to training some work and then some work for a career path. We've had
individuals become doctors just because we placed them to work in the in a hospital setting. Um so you know they have 90% of say who who so when we say hey the applications are open we do receive applications from here but we do talk to the schools a lot
>> and and for the Marramac Valley we have to spread it out so we work with high schools with vocational schools both here Whittier we work with you know we got Newberry Port >> but there's an application process like students need to submit yes name >> an application because there is in order
for you to get wea funds or Commonwealth, you have to have a social security, you have to be eligible, you have to be eligible to work, you know, just it doesn't, you know, same anything that the federal government wants to apply to a regular work applies to training funds as well.
>> Okay. >> A resident, you know. Yeah. >> All right. For now, >> other questions or comments? Councelor Le. >> Uh, so, um, I don't even know where to start. My my head is spinning. We'll start with that. Number one, >> I always make head spins. I don't know
why. >> Uh why >> it's not necessarily you [laughter] >> it's AI. It's it's because I think the this this technology and approach is developing so quickly that is that once we think that we have
a handle on it, we're not going to have a handle on it. Um so I've got essentially two rounds of questions. I don't want to take a lot of time. We have police department folks you want to deal with tonight. So, um, the first and the cappo was stepped out for a second, but I do have a question for her when
she returns regarding free cash and ARPA. I've got a question regarding that. You don't need to touch that. >> Okay. >> I [snorts] all I know about that is there was some funds that couldn't be spent for technical reasons like so it's available and it was for businesses. So, this will help business.
>> I'll ask I'll ask her. So, that's fine. Thank you. So, I'm looking at this right now. It's there's a lot to absorb and and I will tell you that it's very >> very >> broad. There's not although it's detailed, >> there's not a lot of detail if you can
see where I'm coming from. There's not a lot of facts, specifics regarding what the outcomes are going to be. It talks about things whatever. I just had a chance just to quickly go over it. So know knowing very little about AI trying to be a student like our chair is on
trying to be more informed about what the possibilities are. I I I just don't know. I mean I what I would love to ask you is for a case study give me [snorts] but and I don't think you can because you haven't developed the curriculum yet. Nothing's happened
>> brand new for us. Exactly. And so it's it's so um it's almost like we're asking to write a blank check because we don't know what the outcome is going to be. You have a ballpark kind of sort of we need it. It's important. Kids are using it now, but we're not doing as much as
we can be and we think we need to do more. >> I think business not using it. >> But I think the I think the goalposts are moving constantly and I don't even know if the experts that come in are going to be experts the next day because it happens so quickly, right? So I So my
mind is spinning. I I think I'll say positively. >> I get you. Yeah. >> Positively. I think the attempt at what we're trying to do I think makes some sense to me that we that we have an understanding that this is underutilized that we have an understanding this is the trend of our society of of our
communities. And that if we're going to be successful, we need to know how to if we can control it, navigate it, maybe that's a better word, manage it, maybe that's a better word. >> I don't think we're going to be able to control it. Manage it. And so to work to the purposes that we want,
>> but I just don't know what that means for the high school student at Lawrence High or wherever they're from saying if you take this class at the end of the day, you're going to be more marketable. I don't know if I can get from point A, which is if you take this class, to B, you'll be more marketable at the end. I
just don't know if I can see that timeline. >> Right. Right. No, no, I understand. Uh, let me just say that in every program that we have um whether it's adults, youth or dislocated workers. Um, we >> Let's focus on the youth because this is what this is about. I want let's talk
about the we but for every statistic we we we brief our planning uh committee every every uh every month we go down the numbers and we on the on the annual plan we always make a number of what we call exit interviews or exits negative
exits we call them negative exits and those are individuals that may go through a program and then decide to not fully complete it or they don't get placed on a job Right? Because what happens is the funding that we do, we
follow it from the front all the way to a job placement and then a year after job placement. So, uh, we do make some, you know, some some percentage-wise on the numbers of what we don't think we're going to place and we hope that we don't
reach it. Uh, in the last few years, we've reached those numbers by, you know, two or three percentage above board. But we do follow uh we don't just train and that's it. We don't just place and that's it. We ensure that we train,
we place and we case management for all up to a year. Uh so that way we know where you were placed at, what revenue you bringing to the city. How much actually I have a breakdown and I can provide to you how much uh AI just doing
50 individuals a year will bring in revenue to the city of Lawrence. I think that more is what you have in this document a return for investments or ROIs as you said aggressive and non-aggressive or whatever however you categorize it. I I just took a >> but that was a small that was a small small thing. I have a I have a bigger a
bigger number about how it affects revenues as far as uh taxes, housing uh and everything else restaurant businesses and it's in the millions. It's in the millions and we can spend just because this is so fascinating. I think even my colleagues are fascinated
by we have one who decided she wants to take more class. We got somebody else who's like I just want to find out more about it. So clearly this is we all want to know more about it. But I'm going to try to curb my enthusiasm tonight on this. Use a television phrase and and um
and just see you you mentioned in our city the the the businesses that you were you sort of kind of said this is not really want to go but you're the people in the city say yeah we want the bodeas the hair salons the money organization whatever we've got going on in our city. So tell me how if that's if
we're saying okay this is what Lawrence is this is where our folks want to do business and this is so we're going to support that and we're going to be the best haircut people in the world right here in Lawrence right we're going to be the best beauty salons tell me >> if we have this program with AI
>> how when I get my haircut >> AI is going to help >> on SX street [laughter] that I'm going to have a better haircut that's going to be more profitable >> right >> because of AI because that's the direction we're going in our city. Help me understand that. >> So maybe not for the consumer itself
that's going in to get a haircut, but for the business itself, right? If we put an individual into that hair salon or enjoy that barber shop, AI can provide a strategy to provide more businesses how to make their business more you more welcoming. uh they could
upload maybe they're working their accounting or the books for that particular company and they could upload those books into AI and and and give it some some textual type uh uh report instead of numbers where they could make it better where they're where they look
like they're losing. I mean, I've done that with Excel spreadsheets and just uploaded has given me, you know, how I could break down my budget for this budget that you see there was created with AI. I'm like, listen, I want to put 50 individuals through this program at 200,000. Assuming that the the RFP as at
this month, what would be a breakdown? >> How much training? How much training did that take you, Mr. Bonet, for you to figure that out? You're spending $100,000. You probably you probably sat in front of your computer, put on the chat, GT, give them break. I've been no we have training in our we my people
have been taking training uh with AI because the state um >> you know started restricting us we were using deepseek and they restricted deepseek and then we started choosing just chat GPT we we have our own train in-house training for our for our employees our staff inside yeah >> all right I'm not going to get and then
I I want to I want to cut this as short >> but I'm not an expert I tell you I learn every day so so since the the capo is not here do you understand >> what where this account is coming from this this $200,000 free cash arper account. Now, I understand the ARPER account. I remember where that money
came from. Most of that money went through our our beloved uh schools and police station. And then we had a bunch of other monies going toward um nonprofits, etc. So, now I'm wondering where is this $200,000 from free cashier account. >> Yeah. From what I understood, and I'm
not and and like I said, I hope the castle comes back, but what I understood, there's $400,000 that was currently allocated for uh for something at one point. And I want to say, and maybe I'm wrong, but correct me if I'm not if you think I think it had to do with the Latino Chamber of Commerce or
something like that, uh Lawrence or something. There was some monies that they couldn't spend for technical reasons. Uh and so that I believe that's where it's coming from, but I I wouldn't I wouldn't know for sure. I that's this is what I >> the cappo is here. Can I can I just interrupt me? I'm gonna take you up. Cappo, can you please I'm sorry. We've
been waiting for you. >> But this is all right. This is this is better than a tiff. [snorts] >> Well, [laughter] >> this is and he and he walks away after he says that. [laughter] [snorts] >> So, this is this is the free cash arper
account. $200,000. >> Mhm. >> Remind me again. VR [snorts] accounts I thought were for the schools and for the police department and then for some of the nonprofits and so tell me >> it's my understanding this is uh the funds from the federana this is coming
from that what >> federantes okay thank you >> now that makes sense to me okay >> there was originally 400,000 this is 200,000 >> now remind me again there were certain rules schools. And this is what was uh kind of funky about this whole thing,
right? That it was supposed to be reim I think it was a re was it a reimbursement? Is that what we were doing back in the original cuts? >> Yes. So every institution had two years to use the funds and it was on a reimbursement basis. >> And a reimbursement basis.
>> And so is is are those rules applicable here? >> Well, I'm not sure what happened. We these funds were never um handed to the organization. >> So they stayed in in in the uh >> but my point here is I want to be
consistent that was highly controversial, highly contentious as I recall. >> Yes. >> Because it seemed like the rules either could be changing or have changed. And there was and and and this is all coming back to me a little bit when we first brought this out.
Everybody in the city who was going to consider being an applicant knew the rules >> and the rules were you put your you give us the proposal. You show us where the money is. Use that money and you have so much time to do that. Then if you met all those check
all those boxes off, we will then take this ARPA money and reimburse you. In this particular case, something didn't happen like it was supposed to and the money was never spent. So now we have $200,000. So there I'm just wondering what I want to do. I don't want to go too far out in front of this because I
want to be able to think it through. But it makes sense to me that we continue be to use those same rules that we don't change it because that's what got us in trouble. I think so. So if the if the so the rules are or were
>> hey workforce development whip you go ahead and you spend this money you showcase that you can do this and then we will reimburse you the $200,000 or whatever it is. Why is this what we're not doing that? We're saying 200,000.
You started off, which seems to be a little different than the earlier rules, which is a concern to me. But if you could talk me off the ledge, I'd listen. >> I to be honest with you, I was not part of this um recommendation. I was not
involved in the decision. >> Okay. Well, that's a problem. That's a problem. And that actually now that I'm questioning whether we should move forward on this at the from the committee level uh because we are talking about
well this one from my recollection just a few months ago we were still um discussing these funds for the ferasio and what was going on because they're two completely
different stories out right now. Um, and it was retabled because I forgot to invite well to tell to ask our secretary to make a note to invite the city attorney refer back to prior meetings on
this. Um, council the plans is is asking whether or not those requirements are still intact and we have the person that should know that caffo in front of us not being involved in these type of discussions. So, I was all for it and now I'm like
pumping the brakes and that's all I'm going to say on that. Uh, >> so thank you. So, that's that's my question. I I I haven't figured out where I am. You can probably think where I'm leaning. I This is all new information to me, so I'm kind of making decisions as we fly here based on what
I'm hearing. I I fundamentally don't the the underlying the underlying purpose I'm intrigued by. I I I don't know if I'm sold, but I'm intrigued by it just because I don't I don't know enough. And it seems like we're writing a This is probably a poor expression right now
because we're talking about money. We're writing a blank check for a program that has not been developed. Um it's unusual. We typically when we get things we have a better usually, and I'm not saying I'm sure we could pull something else out where we have, okay, you're going to
spend this money on such and such and this is what you're going to get. Now, Bon Mr. Monet, I have no problems with his approach. He has his organization. He just described how he sets it up and how they do these things and how they review it and and he's his whole
process, which I believe is very very good. I don't have a problem with that. But when I ask, you know, where are we spending the the government money? What I will typically ask is, well, I want to know how that money is being spent. In this particular case, I don't know how that money is being spent. So there's two things that are kind of like
but part of the challenge that I'm not so I'm not like part of it is because AI is so amorphous. You can't put your arms around it. It's constantly growing and it's going in different directions and you and and and and just when you think you have a handle on it, it's generative
which means it adapts on its own on part of it, right? It's two parts of AI as I understand it. So part of it does its own thing and it learns from its mistakes in itself and the other part is another part that I think this is what we're dealing with on this side. I forget what they call this other side of it. But but but as a policy maker, I see
the importance of it, but I don't know how we get to how I just write that check and say, "Give us something." And I don't know what that something is. I'm going to talk to the police department about a grant. I want to know how many opioid overdoses. I want to know. Give me a
number. How much are we doing? What? And I'm going to get a number. I'm going to say, "Okay, this is what we're doing. This is our goal." Okay, I can see that. if you don't meet that goal. Okay. Well, what went wrong? I can't do that here. Anyway, so and then of course this whole thing about ORPA. [snorts] >> So that's my concern.
>> Thank you. >> I'm done. >> Thank you. [snorts] >> Just record. >> YEAH. [laughter] [laughter] >> You You're not the only one. So I >> I'm fine if you want to table it and and
find information. There's no rush on this one. >> That's where um I'm leaning towards as the chair to recommend to the committee. I think councelor Lean asked not that I think I know he asked some important questions that we don't have the answers to. We don't even have the answers to
and it's important that the cap has >> has the answers because you're here in front of us representing the finances of our of our city overall. So, um, you're here, but I want the record to show that to ask we're asking the capital to come
back to this committee with answers to the questions that councelor Lel Plan asked. Are there any additional questions that the capital should go back um to investigate for our next meeting? >> See, coun um vice chair,
>> not necessarily a question. Um, I'm just trying to make sure that I'm in the same page as everybody else because I feel like um these funds where they originated from or initially what the what the purpose it was
intended for. So this I want to make sure that I'm clear. The 200k was originally intended for the federio but because it's just >> um >> so it's my understanding they got 400,000 >> right? because
there's a new direction of where these funds should be directed to. >> That's my understanding. >> Okay. Um I guess my my sentiments when it comes to this is and I don't know if you guys agree with me if you guys had the same
experience as me, but um there was another there was other funds that we approved for for small businesses. Yes. And to me that was a show, you know. It was a show. It was [laughter]
it was it was it was problematic. It we we this council body approved it with the best intentions to thinking that and maybe it did work for a lot of these businesses. Uh but I know that upon the
release of the list of the businesses that received these funds, it raised a lot of eyebrows. it raised even more questions than when we asked initially when it came before us for approval. So, I guess just to tie everything together
where I stand with this and again maybe it's a matter of me um receiving additional information to educate myself a little bit more in order to make a more seasoned decision. Uh but the way I feel
is because of that experience I and and given the 200k and what it's intended for and I I agree with you there's a lot of like questions because of the fact that this hasn't been developed. So, I'm not sure if it's a requirement in order
for Mass Hire to receive approval from us first to then move forward with an RFP process or could they do that first and then come before us to request funding funding uh approval for this once it's been acquired the the
curriculum. Um, I feel that I'm okay give if we're if the city if this money is just sitting there and the administration feels like he wants to have uh total control as to
how these funds uh should be um allocated and the city council cannot come to an agreement with that and therefore this $200,000 is just sitting there. I feel okay with the fact that it would be directed to a good cause, which
is for the youth. Um, and if at a later point in time, you know, there's $200,000 that we could, you know, once the city council and the administration could [clears throat] we could get it together in terms of how these funds would be directed and allocated to small
businesses, then we make that we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I but that's how I'm feeling based on how I'm seeing everything. If I'm not if I'm not educated enough and there's certain pieces of information that I do not have
and I'm seeing this all wrong, then by all means, I'm willing to to find out more. If I may answer one of your questions, we are a city department or city employee considered city employees working with state and federal funds.
So, our funds work the same way your funds work. You get state you get funds from the state. And what do you do when you get the funds? The the the state, the commonwealth doesn't say, "Well, give me an RFP first for your trash and then I'll give you the money." You know what I'm saying? They give you the money and then the DPW comes out with an RFP
of what they want and it the money is already there. So, it's just like us. We first receive the money then we go for RFP for the services that we want or the services that are discussed upon the high school the workforce the career uh counselors of what's best going forwards
how many individuals count curriculum and things like that but just just want to let you know >> leave madam chair though okay um >> this curriculum is it designed that once training is done is there a pipeline for
these students to be in the workforce for companies that are local because I'm trying to >> that is our intent. Our intent is for large students, but more importantly for large business, right? To help the businesses and and that's why I think maybe why the administration chose this
fun line item. I'm not quite sure with the fedio, >> but it was to help businesses as well to to try to get these individuals as they graduate. and we're we're trying to maybe get those individuals that are graduating soon to not going to college so that way we can place them into the workforce. I think that maybe answers
one of your question. How do you select individuals? Uh we wouldn't want to, you know, certify or license someone that may not go into the workforce immediately. our our our our >> intention for them to work in the city
because like how you've identified how many businesses in the city of Lawrence are within the AI field. >> So so so that's a good thing they don't know that they within the AI field. These businesses may not know and this is where the student comes in right and say we can we what we do is we match
them with employers and before we do that we just don't throw them into employer say see if AI works. We first have our we have a list of employees that we work through throughout the city that we match individuals to work summer or throughout the year. But they also do other things. They do hire individuals
who get certified and licensed through WEOA programs in the career center. And because we have a good relationship with these employers, they do get them to work. And so that's what we do. First we go to the employers and we talk about how AI may help their business grow, how
they can make it easier if they have someone with that skill to come in just like and that's our mission. Our mission is two one to put people to work but more importantly for the regional economic for the economic of the region of Mar Valley to make sure that businesses stay here. So how do we do that? We fill in those vacancies that
are hard to fill or hard to place by certified and licensed individuals. One of the ones that we're doing, one of the barriers that we have and just give you a perfect example. Uh, one of the barriers is is childcare providers. So, what do we do? We start we use money to
go for RFP. It was a group youth money to go for RFP to try to get someone who would certify a licensed individuals or provide all the training necessary including the license for child care provider because you got to have you have to have a license to do that. And
then we would place them to work in child care providers within the city or in the Marramac Valley wherever they want to. It was Marmac Valley because it was Marramac Valley money. But in this case, it would be something like only businesses in Lawrence. So that's that's what the pilot is here is for Lawrence
students for Lawrence businesses. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. So I'm going to end the discussion here. I think it's perfect timing. Um, caffo, you have question the questions that were asked. In case this does get
referred to full counsel um and not and it doesn't stay here, please have those answers ready um for the full counsel. And uh I will at this point entertain a motion for this item. >> Like to make a motion to table. >> There's a motion to table. Is there a second?
>> I'll second that. >> There is a second. >> So there is a second. No discussion on on tabled motion. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you, Lor. >> Thank you for being understanding. >> I haven't been here a long time. [laughter] >> I'm sure you missed it. >> Beautiful. >> All right. On to my favorite portion of the night. Yeah.
>> To get >> Where did my um >> um I I'm trying to [laughter] my agenda. I'm sorry. I have it here. All right. Now, last item of the night. We have item 78-26,
year-to- date budget review for the police department. And we have our CAPO here with us tonight. Uh CAFO and our police department. We have our police chief. I'm sorry. >> Oh, yes. Can I can
>> Yeah. C can we do a quick twominut recess? Can I have a a motion for a two-minut? >> Second it. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have question. Thank you. All right. Um, can I have a motion to
come back from recess? >> So, move to have been made by the vice chair, seconded by councelor Lelant. >> Uh, yeah. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. The eyes have it. All right. careful.
So before I'm going to reiterate what I mentioned last meeting, uh full council meeting. The CFO and I met the day of my birthday. >> Yes. >> To go over um what the budget season's going to Well, I had to come in anyways to meet with the mayor. So I was just
like, let me let me just get it all over with. Um and we went over the budget process last year. their budget process previous years [snorts] and we thought something like this may be beneficial.
Um I also asked the but the the CAF to send a workable spreadsheet. I know we have the paper version as well but in case anybody wanted that Excel sheet, we do have that as well. And I also asked
committee members that if they had any questions prior to the meeting to go directly to you, but to CC the chair so that I could have the record of the questions um prior to the meeting. and um so that to to include them in the
formal budget hearing process which I did note if any counselor did have um questions to please just refer it to me and the capo due to open meeting laws which we did have one counselor and it was councelor Llant who submitted uh
questions prior uh for for this meeting. So with that being said, I am now going to open it up for you're welcome an intro [laughter] and we'll get the ball rolling. >> Yes. So um this is a good opportunity for the major departments within the
city to be able to explain the operations the uh how the financial going now that we're seven months or eight months into the the budget. Um, so basically the format that you have in front of you is the same format we have for our budget reports. You're familiar
with that. This has a little more information in terms of the columns. Um, so the first column, it's the original budget for FI 26. The revised budget, just so that you don't get confused, it includes previous years purchase orders or requisitions that move forward that
are not spent in the year that they are uh created. The next column is your last year actual. Um it's a good comparison to see what was spent the year before in total. Then the fourth column from the left is the actual. Then you have
encumbrances which has which are existing POS and then requisitions are um requisitions that are not yet converted to a PO. Then the last column before the percentage is the available budget. um it's basically taking your
actual compared to the revised budget because the revised budget has the carry forward from previous years. So then the available budget is uh where you have still available and then the last column is the percentage of the budget used. Um then this is broken down by the
divisions of the department. The first one is the police administration and [snorts] that uh department only has personal services. Then you have the police operations that has more of the different categories. It has the personal services, the purchase of services, professional service,
supplies, other charges and capital outlay. And the last department is the animal control um department or or group within the police department. Um I will pass this to the police department
if you have specific questions. I do have my laptop if you need more details that I can go in and check. >> I do have one question before we start this. >> Just something that I noticed tonight. I >> luckily we have this copy. I did not work off of the physical copies that you
provided. I worked off the the Excel spreadsheet, >> but I did notice just two minutes ago under the grants police detail in this the workable spreadsheet is um the
amount is 33 321,443,444 but on the physical copy it shows a number of 500 582,761444. Uh, so I I quickly did a cross reference to ensure that the numbers were
everything else seems fine, but that there's a discrepancy there. So which one is the actual number? >> This was this was a screenshot of a specific time. Um, it depends on when the report was run. The report I'm not sure what you're looking at and I apologize. I I have the 582,000.
That's the report I have, which is what I believe I forwarded to the council. >> It says the same as of February 26, 2026. The the Excel sheet says the same thing, but for whatever reason, that particular line when I downloaded it, I
guess it's it's different from >> um the only thing I can think of it's um it was updated to a more because this is back when we sent the original report was February 26th. So that line item specifically, it's it's very um up to date in terms of the police detail,
money's received, money spent. So maybe it got updated because this is more like um this report is a a um a pivot table based from the download from UNUNICE the night before a backup. >> So that's the only thing I can think of. But um basically that number what that
number represents is the amount of money spent versus the amount of money received. So that's a an account that has a lot of activity, >> right? Okay. So >> the detail account, >> but the the accurate number to date is that 500,000 number
>> as of when I ran the report February 26 was the 500,000 number. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. I know I have questions, but I'm going to start off with my colleagues uh first. Do you have questions or comments
pertaining to the year-to-ate police department annual budget um to ask either the chief we have our director of grants here and the director of police it okay so I have the title right here with
us this evening um if you're not ready >> you're ready all right go ahead council I was going to say but if you're not ready yet I'll dive into my questions I I just want to let you know that I I >> something Oh, sorry. >> I have an hour. So, I'm going to just I
we could go till midnight, but we're not because I'm leaving at 10. So, that's just So, that's that's [laughter] um I I sent us Did you get I know the chief and the capo, you got my questions um as well. Um, so they're bigger questions and I think where what I'm
looking for is the big questions and and then you can identify where in the budget those resources are coming for to answer the questions that we have. Right? So um, and this is macro questions. I'm I'm not I'm not I used to be the guy that used to want to know it
said $526, but I see $524. I used to be that guy. I'm not that guy anymore. So I'm more of become a big picture kind of guy. So um the first question deals with whoever this the news police headquarters and
what kind of impact is that new headquarters having either on on the current budget and the budget going forward? I are we going retro or are we going forward on this madam chair on these questions. Okay. All right. So I so I throw that out to
you. So I I'm I'm really curious what what is the impact on the on the on the on the on the new station as it as it as it impacts our budget? Well, it's certainly going to impact the budget. Um, good evening first of all to allow >> uh Maurice Sagular on 90 L Street, Lawrence. Um, it it certainly is going
to uh, you know, impact the budget um, in ways that we've outlined uh, with the uh, proposed request, you know, with the increase. Um, you have to understand that we're going uh, you know, from a very small building now to a larger
building which, you know, over 50,000 square feet, whatever the case may be. Um and uh with that comes increases in utilities and and uh you know increases in the overall in the overhead uh expenditures of the department. Um so uh
at this point I know that director Shepard um is is conducting very extensive research relative to what we anticipate our utilities uh you know are going to look like. Um we have to offset that with some of the also and compare
it with some of the expectations of uh the offset uh because as you know this this building is also going to have uh solar panels and the like and we just don't know exactly what the exact number uh of either reduction or cost is going to be in that regard. So we're
fine-tuning that um to get as precise obviously as as we can but um you know with the building as well as a smart building and what that means is you know um there are certain uh technological uh you know upgrades if you will that that
are required uh you know for operations and and the needs for operations. So um there is going to be an increase if the short answer is there's going to be an increase in so far as the need overhead and and maintenance of the building. >> That's what we're looking for. So when you say need, so we're looking at
purchase of services. Is that what we're looking at as as far as where the cost we're going to see greater cost coming in and and that and it's not applicable now because it hasn't opened up. So we're we're talking this is we're projecting until next year. Do by the way when when is when is that building
going to be occupied? >> So the anticipated date uh we're going to get the keys god willing uh is April 24th and that is what they fast. That's okay. >> That is [snorts] coming very fast and and as you can imagine there's there's there are a lot of things that are moving uh you know a lot of moving parts
to this. So we're staying ahead of it and preparing for that move which in and of itself is going to be huge. It >> it doesn't sound like you like you know. So I'm going to move on. I because we have I've got a lot of questions. because I don't want to spend too much time. I'm really trying to delve deep if we can based on the question. So, if you
don't know, and I'm okay with that, >> you don't know it's going to cost us money or it's going to save us money and because there's variables that you haven't explained yet as to why that is. Um, but when when are we going to when are you going to be able to get that projection? When will you know if this
is going to be a net savings or a net expenditure? >> Well, with regards to the utilities, we should know very shortly. within a week or two. But in so far as what we anticipate for expenditure increases, that's all outlined in the department budget request. And that goes line by line relative to salaries. Um
>> talking about the building, just the building right now. >> Yeah. Just the building in and of itself. Repair and maintenance uh of the building. Uh we we anticipate a $29,000 uh increase on that. Electricity, $10,000 increase, water, sewage, and the like. So these utilities that I just referenced have been uh referenced uh
within the budget request. So, it's not that we don't know. We can we can uh get an educated guess, if you will, as to what that's going to cost us. And I guarantee you we're going to be very much in the ballpark. The only thing that is unknown is the actual uh savings
that we anticipate uh from the you know the uh the solar panels and cath. One quick question again. I'm so sorry. The second column, the revised budget, that's a 2027 budget. >> No, that we'll still end the actual 26. So everything on here is is the current
budget. We have not not the not the next budget. It's not on here. Okay. Thank you. [snorts] All right. Um All right. So I'm going to throw that to the side right now because we really don't know. Uh next. Uh I was kind of I in my in my email to you, I was kind of flippant and I apologize.
What's the police department's goal? I know less crime, right? I know the T answer, but that's not good enough. So um but I want to drill down a little bit. So, one of the things that um that that I that I I think is the way that you look at it is retaining police
officers and training police officers. So, I want to know how we're doing with personnel with retention because here's here's what your predecessor said to to us and to me, you give us this salary and the union said this, we we we're
going to measure up with the municipalities. You're not g we are not going to lose folks to the Andovers or the Lowels or wherever the heck else they're going to other other communities. So I don't know if that's true. So you and every every time we
have to bring someone new on board that's costing us money a lot of money. So help me understand what's our retention what are we doing? Are we at full budget? Where are we on the numbers on personnel? >> So um you know these are all actually that's a great question. Um, relative to
retention, uh, we have, uh, since I've taken over, we have 100% retention. There hasn't been a single police officer that has left. >> So, how long has that been now, Chief? >> And and that's now I'm on my ninth month now. >> No one's left. Nine months. No one's left. >> Retirements, I'm thinking, but no one's like moved over. >> Not retirement through attition in that
regard, but no one has left the department. As a matter of fact, uh, you know, it's the other way around. We've had an increase, uh, interest in the department. um you know compared to 24 2024 uh we had 13 officers uh successfully uh complete the academy and
the FTO program when you look at 2024 there was only one officer so you consider that and statistically speaking that's a 1,200% increase with regards to hiring retention 100% retention in that regard in order to save money um you know because remember and this goes to
the overtime uh you know uh issue as well um we're about 24 25 officers short as we speak, understaffed as we speak. That adds to the uh overtime issue. But in so far as saving money and what we're doing to address that issue, um you
know, we've increased our presence on social media. We've increased our messaging out there as well. Um and uh I'm right now speaking to approximately three candidates, one out of Lel um and uh one return from Lawrence as well. And
[snorts] we just hired uh an officer who started uh Monday, Officer Estraa. Um these are all academy trained officers. This is going to save us on academy training. Um this is going to shorten the time that we put them out on the streets. So we're we're using uh various t tactics and strategies in order to
save money, bring more people in, and finally get us up to what is, you know, I I think not arguably uh the 200 uh you know, police officers that should be >> Show me in the book where the training is. Wait, what? >> Training. >> Where is the money that we're saving under police? I'm guessing it's police
administration. >> Maybe not. Maybe it's personal uh wherever it is. Police operations. Where are we saving money? A training line that that reflects the fact that we maybe put some money in, but we're not spending because we're we're doing such a great job in retention.
Now, that would not be training. Um that would not be training. I I would say I think that the money on that would be more impacted on the on the overtime. Uh >> so help me out. So So let me So when when we send someone to the academy, who's paying for that? >> We are. >> Of course we are. Where's that coming
from? >> We're not sending anybody to >> That's personnel. I mean Yeah. >> Under personnel, but it's under where? >> So I I'm not sure that answers your question, but if you're a little bit more specific, we can we can get to Are you looking for the line item? >> Under the operation. >> So this is a success. Yes. I want I want
to be where capital >> under police operations we would pay the uh the police is are are you talking about police recruits? >> Is that what you're saying? >> Training. >> Yes. So it will be under police operations personal services. >> Okay. And I I hate to go down to the the
the sub subobject line number. Which number would that be? >> That would be 51. >> 51. What? >> So 51 is the personal services. So it includes salary. It includes overtime, holiday pay, whatever they >> mingled it into that. There's no spit line that says police academy. We're saying somebody over for training for
the police academy is don't line for that. >> Believe director Shepard may have some some input. Director. >> Oh, here we go. You have some input on that. >> All right. >> Good evening, city council. Rosa Shepard, director of support service at the Lawrence Police Department. Um, you were asking, are you asking for the new
recruits or the officers? >> So, so, so here, so understand the question and I want to, and it's it's me. It's not you. I'm looking at is we're saving money. In times past, we've lost folks. We had to bring people in. We've lost folks to
other departments. We had to bring people in. And when we brought we bringing people in, we've had to increase our recruit numbers. And there's money had to be spent for the recruiting numbers. The chief just said he's not bringing any we we're not
losing anybody. So the folks, as a matter of fact, the people that have he's bringing in are coming from the academy and yeah, we're always gonna have to there's always gonna be retirement backfilling of course, but where is So if we if we typically lost in the course of a year five police
officers, I don't know, I'm just throwing a number out to Worcester, you name the place, we'd have to backfill that. So now we're we don't have to because we're keeping the officers, we don't have to bring more recruit more in. So there's a savings. Typically, we
would lose five. Now, we're not losing five. We're keeping five. So, where's the savings for that five? I'm just throwing it. I don't know if it's five, but is the question clear? >> I don't believe I I'm following you. I don't I don't believe I don't believe we are saving, but if I'm hearing you
correctly, um counselor, because we're still not at full capacity officer wise. So, we we still have those 24 25. So, even though we're not losing, >> we still have those openings. So, >> but if we have 25, we would have 31 if we did retain our folks. We are there's
five spots that we're not losing on. I'm just I don't know if the number's right, >> but we're not we're we're we're lessening the bleeding. We're not bleeding as much because we're keeping them. And and if we're budgeting for the blood for the five that we're going to typically lose every year and then
normal attrition retirements, I guess I'm just there's got to be I would think there's a cost savings there. And if you if there isn't, that's fine, too. I I would think that there is. >> Well, if it is for the new recruits, we do have the staffing grant that pays for the recruits while the academy
>> for the first six months and then for for the rest of the for the rest of the year. 50% comes out of the police department and 50% comes out of the salary once they become a police officer. It comes from the staffing grant. So kind of the taffing grant pay for the first year of the recruits in in
for the new recruits once they're at the academy and and after they graduate 50% comes out of the police department and the 50% comes out of the out of the um the um the staffing grant. >> Okay, this is going to be harder than I expected. So >> can I ask one more question? Is we're
looking at this we're looking at this budget. Does this inside this budget does it also have these other outside grant funings? This is strictly city. Okay. >> No. Okay. >> No. So the first page is general fund budget which is what you voted on. >> Um the second page which is what
>> the chairman u referred before is the grants. >> The second page >> the second so yeah the second page physically and then the second tab on the work on the and I figured out my it was uh it was error on my end with the number. Oh, okay. >> I accidentally copied and I don't know
what I did when I was doing my work here. I accidentally copied and paste. So, everything else is fine. >> That's good. Figured >> these are >> all right. We're gonna move on just because it's we could just get caught up in this. >> Okay. >> So, >> one of the biggest issues that the
people that I represent and I suspect maybe others as well face are quality of life issues. It's not so much even though it's a problem, drugs, it's a problem, right? There's other things as well that are significant problems that the FBI monitors. I'm not going to go through them all because it's it's way more
important than somebody's music that's really loud. It's way more important. But you know what drives the people out of the city? It's not one of those FBI crime stats. It's quality of life. It's the speeding on the roads. It's the loud music on the in the it's the mufflers. It's the whatever. That is the stuff for
working families who are trying to get things done, who have got a baby at their house and they've got all this stuff going on that's driving them crazy. or if you're a senior citizen and you just want a piece of quiet. These are the things that makes people pull their hair out and say, "I can't stand living in our city anymore. It's driving me crazy because I can't do that's the
stuff. It's not the FBI crime stats." Even though those are important. Clearly, they're important. I don't want to say [snorts] what they are because it'll make my argument look ridiculous. But, um, what tell me where the money is that really is going to impact the quality of life
of our residents. Where is that? Can we monetize that at all and say, "Yeah, we're putting this much money into the kinds of things I just mentioned that are really important to our residents." >> I think yes and no. I I I think uh counselor that uh we're in a very good position where we can now start to
concentrate on quality of life issues as opposed to the murders that we had, the gang activity that we had, the drug activity that we had, the robberies that we had, and the like crime. And so for us now it it really is a positive step to start thinking about now
the crime is not an issue as much as now quality of life. I think it's a beautiful transition and it it is progress in a very weird kind of way relative to any uh standard of living mon we can't monetize that. Uh standard of living is obviously a subjective
basis but we do and can and will attack it. money to the extent that we can monetize standard of living or or any operations to address standard of living, that's going to be done through citations. We finally have now this a district
attorney's office who's on board with us and has actually provided some sort of teeth to our noise ordinance. Um I've also conducted the CAD system as far as what how we're going to approach this. I've said this before and I've kind of warned uh the residents in a couple of
radio shows and we're going to do a little bit more in so far as uh Facebook and and and you know social media to advise our residents. I'm coming in with a zero tolerance approach this spring and this summer. We're done going to a house two three times about the music. That's over. That's ridiculous. And we
saw apologies for cutting you off, chief, but because I was part of the ordinance committee for a very short amount of time yesterday for an item I had, but I was able to log in right when Captain Montas was proposing the the modification to the no noise ordinance.
And that is something that he has been trying to accomplish for the last two years that got minimal support in my opinion um within the department. But hearing you now say that now you're more there's more u flexibility to start to
start um focusing on quality of life issues. That's probably why is now before before the council. But I believe now that's also part of your zero tolerance. So what I heard yesterday from the ordinance committee was that we have this system in place. Um, not only
are are you guys going to residents homes multiple times, but you give them a fee or citation and there's there isn't an an it's not enforceable. >> Enforceable. >> So now it is before the city council to make it enforceable and I think it's a
beautiful thing. Um, one of our secretaries um from from the ordinance committee taking notes yesterday lives in my district and she provided a real life example that we had to deal with last summer. And one of her neighbors
sent me like 12 um copies uh u screenshots of like of 12 times that he reached out to the police department to report this. And ultimately, most residents know that there's only so much you can do, but now we're trying to fix that. And um I think that is where
the budget the budget comes from. Now I don't know where the money of these citations are going to go towards but at least there's a monetary component now if the modification to the ordinance gets approved next week. >> That is correct. And and so um and you
know so there's going to be incomes. There's going to be some residual income for that. Now granted the objective here is not uh income obviously. The objective here is to raise a standard of living and to bring some of the people who uh quite frankly and I and I and
I'll say it quite frankly just do not have any consideration for their neighbors, no consideration for our ordinances, our rules, our standard of living. You know what I mean? That's stuff is going to stop. We're done with going to a house two, three times like I told you. Now it's money fine. But now
we have the district attorney. Now, we have uh uh ordinances that there are going to be consequences, and that in of itself is going to generate money. Now, with regards to the vehicles and the like, you know, I'm going to ask for help. I'm going to have a zero tolerance week. I'm going to have the state police
in here. You're going to see a lot of people getting pulled over. Every minor infraction that we can, they will be cited because there's only so much advising that you could do, you know, and people, I think, have misconstrued that throughout the years that somehow it's soft. Well, we've got the
ordinance, we have the support, we have the system now, and now we execute on that system. That is how we're going to attack the standard of living. And so far as monetization is concerned, it's the income that's produced by those citations. >> So the point we're is more about, so
this is more about expenditures. They're talking about budget. It's not this is not the revenue side of the budget. This is the expenditure side of the budget that we have in front of us. We can certainly I don't know if we have bogeies on that. Uh we don't have that in front of us. That would be actually, Madam Chair, that would be interesting as well. There are time there are places inside the revenue portion of the budget
that's under that the police have some jurisdiction over that would be interesting to get that I don't think was provided. But anyway, go and this by the way, Madam Chair, I think this is a very good idea. Kudos to you uh for doing this. I just want to say that publicly. I think this is I I've never seen this happen before. This might
work. So, let's I'm I'm glad they were we're testing it out and see if it works. So, good good for you. >> I got a nod from the capful pertaining to your your request or your suggestion. So she she said that she can provide that. >> Okay. All right. Moving on. Uh so I just
want to know where that's where the money's coming from for that. But I just that's the idea. Give me a second. I just lost my screen. All right. Um greater inefficiencies efficiencies not inefficiencies greater efficiencies within the department. uh
what what did you do in this past year and I guess what are you doing in the upcoming year? Where did you save money this past year? What did you do and did it succeed? Whatever. And of course you you weren't sitting where you're sitting now when this budget was proposed last year, but
what you inherited did did did that did that take place? >> Well Well inherited uh was a nightmare. um you know to date we we're we're still uh you know paying some legacy invoices and what have you and and it is what it
is we are where we are we have to look forward we have to look for solutions some of the things that I have done and so far as uh you know the budget is concerned um you know I cut down even some minor things there was a lot of the best way to say we had a lot of open
windows that's why we had so many drafts um there were a lot of things that throughout the years somehow fallen through the cracks uh you Honors Police Department was paying for cable for the fire department, cable TV, by the way. Um, and uh, and for our departments, I removed cable television. We're not here to watch television. We're not in our
living rooms. We're here to work. Um, you know, I've cut down, for example, on the SWAT units, uh, you know, our SWAT unit. Um, I downsized the SWAT unit. I removed officials, you know, uh, ranking officials from the SWAT unit. I I brought it down to a bare bones minimum
that's necessary. And we still maintain our effectiveness. And that's been and that's been highlighted especially within the last few days um more than ever. Um you know we've cut down as far as what the training requirements are and how we trained. Uh I've cut down on
on uh what we used to have before we used to have for all of our gun training and firearms training and stuff like that. We used to have multiple uh uh instructors on scene this and that. I cut it down to what is recognized as the best practices bare minimum. while still
maintaining safety uh across these trainings. Um I'm now I've emphasized also the what's what's called the train the trainer >> and that means that if there's something that I want to train my people on um I can I pay one person uh an instructor to go get that training, get that
certification and come back and teach our people. I don't have to pay for all of the people to go to that same training. And everywhere that I see an opportunity to cut, I will cut. I've scrutinized every single penny that goes out and and comes in and and the director knows nothing moves without me knowing about it and approving it. I
don't care if it's $100 or so. >> Show me show me the show me something on this budget this year that you can show that success. >> Uh let's see that is a question I did not prepare for as far as and I can certainly grant you something. Let's see here.
>> What was the question again? Sorry. >> So the chief said that that he imple has implemented a variety of different things. Give a couple example. train the trainer and a couple other things and then and then because of those things he was able to save some money on for example training or some other stuff. I'm just I would love to see an example of that inside the spreadsheet that we
received that >> because of this new implementation giving him some time that he's able to save some money. >> You know what I mean? >> Yes. Okay. Um so the CAFO um brought up a good point here. Uh we will look at for example police operations.
That's the first page 01211. uh we look right down for example uh other purchased services >> um right now uh we are only at 50% of where we should be uh with regards to that. So in that regard, we've saved uh
$71,284 on that. >> Where doing what? Heat, electricity, water, river boom service, communicate where >> services and the cost for services, for for example, um you know, the things that we don't that we don't need anymore. That includes cable that
>> Okay, so the cable's an example. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's one example of several things that I can itemize what those things I did throughout the year. >> Um and I certainly would have been prepared for that had had I known that we were going to get down. where you're going with this. So, this is based on your I'm basing I'm kind of riffing on what you're telling me.
>> Yeah. And so, let's see here. It's hard for me to keep the line straight, but um >> if you could find something on there, what I want to do if I if somebody said to me, "Mark, council the plant, can you I know the police chief talked about saving some money. I've got the budget here. Where is that money being saved and how much money did he save?"
>> And I was, "Oh, yeah. Well, under line 52 he purchase of services under the uh I don't know the lease payments, he was able to give me something." Yeah. No, I uh another one and of course the caffo >> kindly pointed that out because I think that the question in and of itself um
requires some specificity for which I did not prepare but one example of that management and consulting 5301 right now um you know I have only spent 3.5% um of of that um and again those are services that we don't that we don't
require services that I've cut. Okay. Uh and things like that. So that's 12,000 there. um repair and maintenance, office equipment and the like. We've got uh we've we've only utilized 12.7% because I just will not buy something that we don't need. Um you know uh that's the
savings of $73,515. Um we go up repair and maintenance of vehicles. Um that's the only thing that has gone up and the reason for that for the Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Why did it go up? >> Okay. And the reason that gone up we had many issues with the fleet. We had uh several accidents on there. There was
the house said the best way to say it. I don't think that we were as thorough as we could have been relative to some of these claims um and relative to saving money on some of these claims. Do you understand what I mean? Um and so that that is something that you're going to see go down um simply because right now
um I need to know if an officer is involved in an accident, I I I want to scrutinize every single accident. That's more stuff that comes through my door. So, we're going to be cutting down on those things. >> All right, Lauro. And don't go too far. cappo under the last thing the CV what's the C the year of the
budget use what what is this was done on February the 26th if we did that last column right here what if we did did every month or week where would we be as far as the that portion of the year 66% of the year 72% what
>> some things vary for example utilities a monthly thing >> higher in the winter months Maybe not so much in the spring. >> Um >> personal services you have >> that's more steady. Where would that be per because that's more steady. >> Um so that one we have a payroll week
this week. Um I don't have the exact percentage but we should be at about 70%. >> I'm looking at the date of this February 26. So if I just ballpark it at 70%. If I knew something was over 70% that would for me raise some eyebrows a little bit.
Only personal services though because for example some things you pay up front. >> Yeah. >> Um for example the repairs and maintenance you don't know when you're something's going to break down. So that is as needed basis. I get it. >> Um you might get uh professional service for something you're going to do at the beginning of the year. Not necessarily
the same every every month. So the more the line the line item that you can see have more specific percentages of personal personal services because you know what you spend every month and you know where you should be depending on how many payrolls you've had. Everything else, you know, other than utilities, it
depends on what the category is. >> You know what I mean? >> I know. I get it. Right. Snow plowing in the winter, you're not seeing that in the summer. I get it. Y >> u All right, let's continue then. Thank you, Tapo. Um, okay. Yeah. So, I was watching the thing last night, right? The the debate last
night, the ordinance committee. Who was there last night? Ordinance committee. You were there. Did you watch the debate last night? >> Um, I was there virtually. >> Okay. So, anyway, a great great conversation and it talked about a lot of things dealing with the homeless, etc., etc., talking about the Buckley train, Buckley garage, etc. So my
question is is uh um what financial impact is you call it your I think your word is migrant migrant vagrant vagrant sorry vagrant thank you vagrant and that's thank you big >> so when you're looking at this like
what's the migrant thing no vagrant thank you I meant to say vagrant vagrant issue having on our city and police resources because of the numbers that we have and I don't even know what that number is it seems to be all over the map but whatever that number is What impact is that having on our budget?
>> It's got a huge uh it's got a huge impact. Look, the the vagrants account for many calls for services. Uh they account um for a lot of the just the petty crimes so far as breaking into motor vehicles. Um and the calls for services all vary from people overdosing
uh to human feces, you know, and like what can we do? You know what I mean? And but I think it you know aside from impacting large police department it impacts I think DPW the most uh because they unfortunately have to uh you know conduct cleanups and what have you. Um
it also as far as um the overall perception of safety in our in our residential and commercial mixed uh areas around our schools around our parks and so we have to have extra patrols in that. Um you know like we have to stay vigilant on that. We have
to stay on top of that. So there is a big impact on that and if I and if I recall correctly counselor one of your questions also had to do with the influx also of individuals you know into the city um not just the vagrants the vagrants have bring with them their own
uh ancillary issues uh but as the population grows as as more people more calls for service of course um thus the race uh to bring us up to some sort of par or at least the perceived parody of 200 officers um so uh Yeah. So there you go. So we don't have enough police
officers because of the the vagrants and the and you're going to couple that with the house the boom of population both documented undocumented. And what I mean by that I mean census numbers the council the chair earlier said we have 89,000 according to the census but we all know that's a lowball figure. We all
know that's probably well north of 100,000 right based on >> Oh absolutely. I've I've been saying this for quite some time. I believe our numbers are closer to 110 if not north of that. >> Sure. You know, you think that the census in 2020 had us at 80,000, but we got 70,000, you know, registered vehicles. So, a lot
of babies and elderly with cars, registered them, I suppose. >> So, so have have and that's and that's where I think this the I I'm looking for a sharper pen or pencil, which is this. >> Is there any way to drill down to find out what that means when when when when the Commonwealth is asking us
essentially when we see the issues that we're facing? And I heard saw the debate last night and I've got my own opinions on that. I'm not going to reflect right now. We that has a cost. Do we money money cost and it's a money cost in your department when you have to send a police officer to do something as
opposed to someplace else that costs money. Do we know do we know what that is? Personnel cost for shifting somebody that you don't have or overtime because you didn't have enough at that one time. Do we have we able to figure that out? you know, um I don't think that we have
gotten to the point of uh a microscopic, you know, or economic impact analysis of it, but I I but I but I like the idea of that because I think that it brings some objective quantifiable uh uh recognition of what of what impact uh these issu issues actually have. And
and I think that people look at we can we can certainly uh take uh because it tugs at the at the you know the humanitarian empathetic uh uh reflex right but I think that uh if we can quantify it in dollars and cents then that's something that people actually
understand how many calls for service deal with that specific that's something that people are going to understand it's not about good or bad or is somebody nice not nice or whatever the case may be the real issue here is what is the impact not not only economically to us, not only in diversion of police
resources, personnel, DPW, EMS, all the things that come with it. Not only is it the perception of crime within our community, but it also has a lot to do with the rest of our other areas, DPW and all those, you know, everything that they have to deal with. Um, so that is
actually that that's a good point. I think that we should explore that and I think I'm going to look into it and see what >> So my last question and I'm going to stop because is this I'm going to tie it back into the we talked about the increased number of automobiles that that to me reflects and I did have a number on the number of housing units we
and the number of units that we have in the city and how the our population is is just spiking and it continues to spike. We take anyway here I want to editorialize right now because I can. We're taking so many votes on this council to allow more and more units to come in here and yet we don't think about I don't think we adequately think
about what did that what is the impact when every time we say yeah these 30 units we that's okay or this 25 is okay yeah they got plenty of parking we don't think all the way through because once you start that it doesn't go back it just keeps going up like this but I want
to so but I want to know what that does when you have the population increase forget about the the the vagrant issue and the unlawful apartments. I mean, what what are we doing with ISD? I am just pounding ISD religiously right now.
Not because they're bad people. And it's not because these folks right here aren't doing their job. There's been systemic problems in that department because there's been no political will to deal with it. There's been no political will to deal with that issue. None. Zero to deal with the over the things that are unsafe for our people
that we we want to represent that we care about. They live in unsafe place and they don't and they all all and we let we kind of turn a blind eye because they need a place to stay. It's unsafe. There's no smoke detectors. There's no egresses. Uh unhealthy is is jamming
folks in. It's not good. We're warehousing people now. It's not good. And so I just want to know if we can figure out what impact does that have on your police department that we have this kind of growth that's been essentially
unfettered. I I will certainly uh I will certainly do my best uh to research that and to give you uh you know an answer as to you know the growth of calls for service uh the impact of those calls for service um and what to the extent that I can how
that's economically quantifiable or or at least recognizable. >> Um that that's these to I'll wrap up. These are the kinds of questions as we're going through this budget is and if the chair if we continue this with other these are the big picture questions that I have. These numbers
reflect policy. Numbers reflect policy. They're just not numbers. So when you say we need 200 people here, you're police officers. You're banking on the fact that we have numbers that we not are unaccounted for in our population. Well, that that is costing us money.
that's costing frankly the Commonwealth money because most of our money comes from the Commonwealth as the council president said before today. I think 74 is a little high but the premise is on the money. We're getting most of our money from outside sources and not internally. We're just not and and and I don't know
what we're and we we're not looking this comprehensively. We're just we're we're we're tunnel visioning our discussions instead of bringing all these things together. ISD should be working with the police department and the fire department who also has a part of the pie when it comes to unlawful apartments
and what that means when you deal with remember the guy from New York City that talked about the broken windows the chief um Bratton was his name and he talked about even the smallest things that you know and and that and if you got tons of people together you're probably going to have a hot summer
night you're going to have hot hot issues right what are we doing about other things like nightclubs being open till one or two what are There's a lot of things that we're doing and they have impacts. The impacts on you and then when I pay my taxes because I'm a homeowner, what that means, this part of my money is going toward um and people
are always complaining about their taxes going up and they're not getting the kind of services. So, let's talk. So, that's where I'm going not only with you police, but across the city is we try to bring it all together because this is this is not a budget, but if this was a budget book, it should be unified.
Everything should do cross-pollini crosspoll cross-pollonization across the board. Water department DPW I'm preaching now. I'll stop. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. >> I'm adding 37 minutes by the way to your
hour. [laughter] That's >> um so council started his his his questioning um saying that he was focused more on the macro >> um of of this budget report. >> I am not
>> there fully yet. I do have questions regarding details. Um so we covered macro which is great and I think I heard my colleague say that you covered some of her questions as well. So that's great. >> But I do >> Oh there you go. [laughter] Perfect. So
now I'm going to question. Now it's my turn. All right. So I'm going to get into some of the details here. We talked about personnel. One thing I noted um within this year uh year-to- date report is that we have like what four three
four months remaining in this fiscal year and both under police admin and police operations. We are we have used more than what was appropriated for
overtime. So that continues to grow. Right here is showing that under police admin um where's overtime 100 102.37% of the of the budget has been used under
police operation. we have 106 106.63 has been used. So what is obviously that's going to keep on increasing within the next 3 to four months. So I
have two questions. One is the department going to need a supplemental appropriation to continue to fund this? We're already over over we already overused what was appropriated. And two, if so, is there an amount that's already
been calculated as to how much the the police department will need if it comes before the council or is it something that's going to be taken? Well, I guess it's still a transfer still needs an approval. So, >> councelor, if you would permit, uh, director Shepard, I believe, can can
really hammer on that. >> Hi. Um on this line, uh we are not anticipating to go any over the what we are right now. It's just uh we had a a couple of situations as a police department that we require some of our clerks to stay a little bit um to work a
little over time than usual, but this is not a line item that usually go will go over time. We are not anticipating um to ask for any more funds for this for this line item for this account. Sorry. >> Okay. Thank you. Another question I have is pertaining to vacation both under
police admin and police um operations that's also overbudgeted and I know sometimes you can buy back vacation time or someone retires whatever the case may be does is are one
of these reasons why we're overbudgeted for that item. >> This this line has hasn't been budgeted for a couple of years. So this year we um they they again the uh the chief of police and our uh finance finance offer
officer they decide to buy vacation. I did put it in my memo for this item to be funded for this for uh fiscal year FY27 for us not to go over um to do this again. >> Okay. So my follow-up question um I I was thinking more maybe retirees but now
you're telling the police chief and who else >> and the finance officer. >> And the finance officer. Okay. So, are you predicting within the next year or two years any more buyouts >> or
>> No, I'm not predicting any more than what we are right now. >> Okay. All right. Um, my next question is pertaining to servants pay. We originally did not budget or finance that line item, but I'm seeing an
expense of over $200,000. So, how is this funded and what caused this payout? >> Um, so about five or six years ago, um, the city is not budgeting severance in any of the departments anymore. We have
set up a, um, compensated absences trust fund. >> That's right. I remember this now from the Yep. So what we do is we advise the departments to use their budget and charge it to the severance account. If at the end of the year they are running at a deficit because of the severance
then we charge it back to the severance account which is the trust fund. Um during the um year end last year the council did not vote to approve the compensated absences. So I will be coming back to the council to ask for uh funding that trust fund because not only
the police but also the fire fires um have a significant severance deficit on their account. So got it. >> I will kindly come back to you and ask to fund that account. >> Got it. Understood. Uh my next question is I mean this is completely zero. I just don't know what it is. What is
river boom service? It's under police operation line item 5311 member boom sir it's completely at zero but I just maybe I'm noticing it now >> okay
all right and then for this portion my last question pertaining to by organization this is very minute but I'm still going to ask So, under animal control officer section,
I see that we budgeted for clothing and uniform allowance of an amount of $400. Um, but we are negative450. So, my understanding is that we were
looking to hire a second person for this animal uh for for the animal control um division. Was this person hired? And is that why we're seeing an overbudgeted reflection here?
>> Yes, that we we hire a control officer. >> Perfect. And now moving to the second tab, which is the grants. or the second pick. Well, since my first question earlier was around police detail, let's start with that. So, police details is
negative. Um, can you explain why is this because are we billing late or are we waiting for unpaid contractor invoices? Why is it negative over 500 something,000?
>> I'm going to have a careful with this one. >> Um I'm assuming it's a timing issue. We do file up um follow up with the person in the police department who is in charge of billing the uh the overtime. A lot of the times the contractors I mean
we do have to pay the officers right away. We can't wait and sometimes the contractor don't pay in a timely fashion. So, it's a timely thing and it doesn't account that I do follow up with both the police and fire because any deficit like this will be a hit to our
free cash. So, I do work with them uh um on a regular basis to make sure we're caught up and I I I have confidence that the person that's handling this has a good handle on the account. >> Okay. Um under the grants as well, the lifetoday availability, I'm seeing a lot
just in general a lot of negatives on this on this chart. Yes. Uh can you is it are we using it? Are we can you explain that a little bit? >> Sure. Some of the grants are well besides that some of them they stay uh
behind December, January and February. Some of those grants are monthly and some of them again they are behind on doing the reimbursement. Then we have a few they are quarterly and the quarterly are due April 15. So we probably might not see the reimbursement
close to the beginning of May, but every single grind, it looks in the red, but we has submit a report for every single grand. We're just waiting for reimbursement at this point. >> Okay. I was hoping to be able to because there is a a a pivot table here. I was
hoping to be able to cross reference to to other fiscal years with this um chart, but I mean the spreadsheet, but do we have have we lost any grants this year and have we lost any grants I guess
in the past that has implicated this year and how how have we been handling that? Yes, we have lost grant but has not done any impact at the police department because the funds has were not used. >> Okay. So, what what were the grants that we have previously lost?
>> We had lost the body war camera >> and it's because the uh um >> why was that? >> The the city and the and the union they couldn't come up with agreement. >> Okay. >> All right. and >> other grants if any. And then uh the CIT
grant, the crisis intervention, um we were not a they um when I tried to renew the grant, they were only give me six months. And at that time, I had an application um in the social media in in the city trying to uh to hire a
clinician to be uh to work on the on the disc grant. And unfortunately he um after speaking with them and trying and trying kind of sort of begging they didn't give me any uh any longer than 6 months and even if would they give me six months they would not guarantee that
they will give me an extra six months if I hire a person. So probably I would have hired the person pay the person have it under a contract but then it will if they wouldn't give me an extension the contract this the police would have had to come up with the the funds to pay the clinician.
>> Okay. So when you me when you mean when you when you say clinician is a this a citywide collition or under the police department >> under the police department. >> Okay. >> And we didn't hire one within 6 months. >> We were not able. >> And what was what was the time frame for this?
>> Uh six months. >> Yes. >> No. No. I know both. But >> when within the year was this? >> Um say summer last year. >> Summer last year. Okay. Yes,
>> I requested >> How much How much was this grant for? >> 240. Again, no funds were used from uh from the police department. >> And the CTI grand would have covered what? >> Just the clinician uh uh payroll. >> Okay.
>> All right. And is this the only grant that we have lost or is there more? >> And we had the DPH grant, Department of Public Health. >> And what was that? That was back in 2023. We returned around $692,000.
>> How much again? >> $692,000. >> And why did that happen? >> Um I was just started my position. So I probably said poor managing and um and um
poor planning and lack of managing. Let me say this way. >> Okay. And so when when a when a municipality loses this amount of of of a grant, does that affect the application process for future years? So
have we is this a yearly grant? Have we applied for it? Do we have it now? I mean, I should probably know this because you go before us, but right now my brain is not. >> It was a one time application and it was extended for five years and this year is the last year for that grant. Okay.
>> Okay. So, this is 2023. >> You were new. I I get that. Um, were you offered any support within the department >> within the police department? Yes, I was offered support. Yes, definitely. >> Okay.
All right. And is that the last grant? >> Yes. >> Okay. Let's not lose any more. >> A million grants, please. I'm working on it. >> All right. My next question refers to
the last item police chief special account that life to date actual was negative 574 575 with 41 cents and now there is availability of that. What is this
account? What does this pay? Is this um the last the last one? Police chief special account. >> This one. >> So originally why I'm assuming originally there wasn't money. Is that why was it's negative first and now there's a a available funds.
>> What is this? >> No, there is available funds. It's not negative of >> Okay. Because I'm here I'm the Ltd actual shows a negative but then the LTD available shows a positive. No, we still have the the funds 175,000 that account
available. >> Okay. And what what is this used for? >> Um it is at the police uh chief discretion is used. >> Okay. >> But it can be used only for uh anything related to the police department. >> What what has it been used for in the past?
>> Uh I had use it to pay uh part of the QED for the um for the for the dispatch >> for the what? Um [laughter] the CAT system for the dispatch. >> Okay. Cat system. >> Sorry. >> Dispatch. Okay.
>> All right. And that's the only time we have used these funds. >> And I have used it to paid uh there was a contract when they were uh they trying to hire um a chief of police. I we uh we uh use that account to pay the uh one invoice for around $8,000.
So pay what invoice >> for uh for the NGT uh when they were trying when they hired a company to hire uh a chief of police. >> Oh, for the for the search committee. >> Yes, I think >> got it. Okay. >> All right.
But that just happened last year. >> Last year, which would be wouldn't it be Oh, no. You were hired prior to the FY 26. When were you hired? Uh, Chief
>> May uh May of uh this this year 2028. >> I should know this. >> Yeah, 2025. I'm kind of lost on the years myself. >> So that's what I'm saying. So that that that just recently happened. So I'm not seeing that $800
expenditure reflected in this in the spreadsheet. No, it was a it was the previous balance because it was Yeah. Yeah. It was paid last year. >> Okay. I can get you more information if you like. >> Can you please?
>> Yes, I can. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, I think that wraps up my questioning for now. >> For now? [snorts] >> Yeah.
>> Any other questions or comments? >> Followups real quick. >> Which which Thank you. Which unit said no to the um to the body cam? >> Which unit said no to the body cam? The camera. >> It will be the patrolmans. >> Was it patrolman and superiors? both unions. Uh
>> did they give a rationale by why they didn't want that? >> Yes. So um I I think n from a national perspective and um most of the police departments that switched over to body warn cameras um by and large got some sort of stipen some sort of compensation or whatever the case may be. The
rationale with regards to the argument is that is a substantial change in work conditions to the extent that uh maneuvering downloading recordings all that other stuff creates another set of responsibilities for the police
officers. So usually on a nationwide basis uh you know they'll get some sort of compensation. Um, in this particular instance, uh, you know, the the unions and the city could not come to terms during negotiations on the body warn camera. It kind of fizzled out. >> Okay.
>> All right. Um, I thought I heard that the chair said it was or someone said there was a $692,000 that we did not get and I >> No, we lost a GR. Yep, >> that's correct. >> What was that? What was that one for? >> I missed that. I missed that. DPH uh the uh equitable action and police uh
something or that that's a uh that was meant um to provide services for people suffering from mental health that is outreach and everything else for our community. Um, unfortunately there was unnecessary intervention uh with regards to that and and that yes.
>> What do you mean by that? >> That there were people involved that should not have been involved with the grant and people that were meddling within the grant. Uh they were delaying our grant. They were delaying the process. They were making things a lot harder than it had to be. >> So So what I'm hearing is right now
Okay. All right. All right. So you just open. All right. What I'm hearing right now is that we had a director basically taking the fall and I don't probably some mismanagement I don't I I think that might be part that that was part of it but when asked
why did we lose this grant she stood right there basically took the fault I asked because I have I I remember this is from 2023 I was on the budget and finance committee I I remember slightly this situation very very fondly Okay.
And I that's why my my follow-up question to you, director, was did you did you get any support? Did you get any help to ensure that that would I mean obviously not because we lost it, but >> I don't think it's fair for the director
to to to have taken a hit on that. I you ask me, I'll tell you that um you know, I think the director made a valiant effort uh to to recover that grant over the course of several years. uh that grant would have been very beneficial to members of the most vulnerable members
of our community. Um but um for reasons that are documented as well. Um you know uh unfortunately we we tripped over our own feet if you will. Um too many hands in the cookie jar. That's all. >> I took some of your time.
>> No, that's all right. I think I think this is and great questions. So I think this is my last question. So, uh, there's through the through the, uh, through the revolving door of the police chief's position over the last several years, uh, we were paying the police
chief's position a lot of money. Um, I just don't know where the bulk of that is, can that money be found in this spreadsheet, the money that was spent on a police chief for non-p police chief stuff? Like we were paying for two or three police chiefs at one time, I think. No. So, that was that is that the
previous of a fiscal year? uh that that was uh the previous fiscal years but there was a trickle effect certainly um you know uh obviously this is be before my time if you will in that regard I have no uh
control you know influence or anything to that effect but um you know there were um in my opinion uh some expenditures that kind of led to uh some of the uh difficulties moving forward uh
onto this fiscal year And again, one of my one of my biggest desires and and and and one of the biggest things that we're working on like on a constant basis is to undo that yarn, that ball of yarn, if we will, so that we start clean and fresh going forward so that we are
completely accountable and responsible for every single penny moving forward. But there are some leg legacy issues that are still being resolved as of today. >> Fascinating. All right, we don't have time to talk about that, but I am curious. Okay, thank you. I'm done. I'm going to make one last comment. Um,
a question or then a last comment. Who was the when when was when what year did former police chief leave? >> Um, I believe that he left in 2022.
>> 2022. All right. So, who was the act? >> My apologies. Uh, correct. I stand corrected. 2023. >> 2023. Was he still the police chief when this mistake occurred? I don't remember if it was him or or an acting chief. >> The grant was filed. Oh, the the ground
they applied for the grant under him. >> He was the Yeah, he was received when they they applied for the grant. >> Okay. >> Thank you for that clarification. Um actually now two comments. Going back to the body cam situation, I mentioned this
to you informally when we were doing the the new police uh station tour, but now I'm going to say the same thing again in a formal setting. I want to see you go back to the unions and get this on the contract. In fact, it was I don't know
if he's still the union the superiors union president. I don't know if he still is, but at that time it was the union president that presented this to us for approval. um which is documented given the last year or so with the there's some accusations or
alleged police brutality that allegedly happened within the city of Lawrence. I don't know if that's still under investigation. So I don't I don't want to jeopardize or or anything. It is now more important to have that. >> Absolutely. >> So I I want to see that on the contract.
And I know it's already too late, but if I'm still a counselor for the next contract, I don't think I'll be moving a contract forward if that's not there. My only I can't speak for the whole, but there's there's just too much she said, he said, and we need the facts. We need
to see. >> Absolutely. I I I completely agree with you, uh, councelor. I I uh you know, in fact, back in uh I believe this was 2016, Chief Vas tasked me. I was his ex executive officer at the time. He tasked me with researching that. It took me
about a year and a half, you know, to get to the point where the the the the the contract uh and our policy for the body warn camera was specifically tailored to our intrinsic needs in Lawrence. Um and the benefits of bodywn
cameras are just [clears throat] I I think they're indisputable, you know, at this point. So, they are absolutely necessary and I do promise I will go back to the unions. we will engage again, reopen this because there's a protective element to them as well, right? You know, just recently another uh what was it? 249, what was
it? The body warn camera grant that just uh >> the $249,000 for the body warn camera uh a grant that's out there. Um and again, I think that until the state mandates that, we're going to be stuck still kind of like uh negotiating with the unions in that regard, but I'd be more than
happy to do that. I'm also a firm believer in that. I have been since 2016 since I researched it since I went to training for that and and everything else and uh and composed the policy for >> I mean and it comes down to plain and simple
if the job is being done as told to us then no one should have a problem with a body cam if if you're not if you're if if you're not abusing your power as a police officer as as a police
um lead in leadership sergeant what whatever whatever your title may be if you're just doing your job then there should be absolutely no problem with having body cams as part of your uniform >> council I agree and I'll offer this
counterpoint um you know uh the men and women of the Lawrence police department um in and the unions in that regard were merely asking for what other unions and other police officers nationwide have received. Additionally, the men and women of the Lawrence Police Department are the only police uh one of the only municipalities that I know of of which
their the ARPA money that was intended to provide for public uh for first responders that were out there in CO 19 risking their lives over 16,000 calls for service during that time and our officers got zero on that. >> It's kind of hard uh to sell them an
ideological uh cell uh when they consistently see that they're getting the short end of the stick on that. [snorts] I agree with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with you on that and that was very those those points were made very clearly. I think it was 2023
or 2024 we were discussing the the both well one contract one contract that was delayed >> um for what for reasons of that I'm not going to get into but yes but either way I I want to see that I think it's beneficial for the officers and for for
us as a city to ensure that you know someone claims something we have we have that that evidence to look at. Uh, my last comment is my original last comment and it's for Director Shephard. Don't
ever take the fault for something again. This is your job. You could have potentially un annoyingly could have put yourself and your job on the line in a negative way to protect others.
As long as you're telling the truth, everything else as everything will fall into place. But stay true to yourself and stay true to your to your to your work. I'm not like I mentioned, I'm I'm not going to doubt maybe there was mistakes on your end as
being new, but there were other factors there and that's okay to say. All right. Any other All right, I think this is it. Thank you so much. Uh I know it seemed scary at first when we put this on the on the
agenda, but honestly it came from a conversation with the CAFO and I that we spent too much time on the details during the official budget hearing. So I wanted to provide an opportunity to get this done ahead ahead of time um for the committee and but that does not mean
that they may have questions when you officially come before us for the FY20 uh 27 budget hearing. >> Certainly. >> All right. All right. Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. Enjoy your night. Thank you for your patience.
>> Council is missing part of this meeting. So, I'm pretty sure a brunt of the purpose of this meeting was to kind of get ahead of a lot of the uh meticulous questions that we were asking. So,
I don't want to say it defeats the purpose, but >> for three out of four of us. All right, council. If there are no any if there are no other uh business for tonight, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion has been made by the vice chair,
seconded by councelor the plant. No discussion. All those in favor say I. I. And the eyes have it. Thank you so much.