We'll call the city commission budget workshop number two to order. If you would please stand for the pledge and the invocation. Dear heavenly father, we come to you this evening. We ask that you give us wisdom to make the best decisions for the city of Leburg in your precious name. Amen.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I would ask that you silence your cell
phones, please. All right, we've done the pledge and the invocation. We will move on to the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget workshop presentation by the city manager. All right, so we'll just jump right into it. Uh so this evening we've uh scheduled uh to review the enterprise
funds which consist of the electric and gas departments. Then we're going to take a look at the special revenue funds uh building permits, housing uh and then uh I I kind of shuffled the deck so that most of our discussion was at the end uh
regarding a lot of the capital improvements that are going to be in some of the other funds. So, our community development agency uh budgets, the discretionary sales tax and and gas tax. So, those those are the discussion funds this evening. So, um again, I kept
it at a pretty high level. If you all want to break down and bust it into line by line item detail, we can, but uh you all seem to have appreciated the highle reviews. Um so, again, the the the electric fund looks a lot like it did
last year. Um, so I want to talk about again some of the the stresses on the electric fund. Uh, we've talked about this uh in quite detail I think with the with the city commission as well as the electric advisory board. Um, so with that kind of stuff, we we we continue to
be aggressive in CIPs, capital improvement projects. Um, the um we also um have two kind of CIPs. we have uh stuff that we want to fix and and and stuff that's forced on us. Uh which in
this chart here we call the growth CIP. Um those then come back to you all in the form of the contribution and aid agreements and all the different subdivisions that have extended. And remember too, so when we and specifically when we talk about growth for the electric fund, we're really
talking about the north side of Leburg. Once we get past the 3327 intersectionish, we go into Duke Secland. So, when we talk about growth impacts on the electric system, really, we're talking about the north Fruitland Park area. Um, and then a little bit out
in the northeast side of town around the Silver Lake area and out the 44 corridor. Um, inflation continues to be a humongous impact on electric from poles to transformers to meters to all sorts of things. Um
we we we continue to look very closely on how we're doing our our purchase of wholesale purchases. Um our transfer to the general fund uh is actually now starting to benefit. It was in the stress column um in this chart as a
stressor, but really now it's really becoming less of a stressor on the electric fund. So I put it in there and then said it's minimal. So we're really starting to get better. And then some of kind of the the minimal operation needs uh where we've trimmed back, no pun
intended, but tree trimming and osmosis plment. Hopefully this fiscal year you see us start to catch up with some of those things. Um with that capital improvements where we've been very aggressive, this is kind of the last several years. Uh the monies that we've
spent on capital improvements 5.97. I'm not going to read all those numbers to you, but as we saw our funds start to decrease kind of the postcoid time frame, you the last two fiscal years, you saw us start to shrink back to start rebuilding kind of our cash
reserves. And now we're almost now, I'm going to say we're taking that go pay as you go approach um with the electric fund. Um and so the next chart we're going to show you here really shows um we're starting to rebound. I say that
cautiously. Um but so let's just jump to it. Um so before I jump to that chart though, um the electric fund this year um is made up of about $7.8 million in different
projects. Um the I I boiled these down for you a little bit differently because uh so I want to repeat what remember if you were the the three-legged stool that drives electric capital improvements. So just for the audience I'm going to use the word CIP. So I'm I'm I know I'm
going to slip into acronyms here. Um so capital improvement projects in the electric fund and and most of our funds really electric and gas are very similar in how the three-legged stool works. And so CIP investments are are really caused
for us in three ways. One, customer-driven projects or growth related projects. So when those agreements come to you for extension services and those type of things, those cause a reciprocal impact on us to go and put in new transformers, new poles,
new wires, new these type of things. So you'll see in the formal reports that go out transformers and you'll see one number. Um and so that makes it confusing because it could be a transformer for three different reasons. Um but number one customer-driven
projects. So we've estimated in customer-driven projects that will need just a little bit south of 2.4 million. So that number could go either way. It could be bigger, it could be smaller, but it's kind of based on where we see we're going to get impacts kind in the
electric uh territory this year. The second one I'm I'm calling forced repairs or or things I've said you've heard me say in the past or things that go bump in the night. So when the big storm comes and we we're forced to repair the same type of things as new transformers, poles, wires, these type
of things. bump in the night occur because of a lightning strike, because of a squirrel who jumps on a transformer and electrocutes and the the fuses blow, or a force repair could be um uh a driver hits a utility pole in an
accident, the pole snaps in half and we got to repair that. Um so, but those are things we all kind we have to plan for. So, we do that based on a trend and again that number hangs out around the $2.3 million range. Um, then the last thing is is I I said those to you wrong,
I'm sorry. Um, customer-driven projects, 2.3 million things that go bump in a night, 3.1 million in improvements. And then the last one is uh system upgrades. So, areas in our system where the electric department has identified that
we need to upgrade things. So, I I I lined this one out for you in a little bit more detail, and I wanted to take a second to review that. So on transformers, lights and substations, we want to get a little bit more aggressive with that. The light part, we're talking
about uh uh street lights and and um security lights. So we get a lot of requests from private businesses. Um the car dealerships are a good example of changing out old lights, putting in new heads, LEDs. We break that system down into a rental. So um and and I'm just
going to pull a number out of the air. It's not necessarily the correct one, but let's say Jenkins needs to change out one of their old lights in their parking lot for security purposes and they got an old light and they want an LED light in there. So, we'll change that out. We'll have that cost. It'll
cost the utility say $150 to change that light out plus the the electric that goes through there. And then we we turn that down into okay, when you rent that from us, it's a dollar a month. So we we've got to come up with the initial capital and then it gets paid back to us over time. So that
so those is that that's a big area. Those some of those lights get expensive to change out and we get lots of requests. The next two lines there, the $285,000 to $945,000. Those numbers together is kind of the the northwest side of the system.
Specifically this feeder 703 and 702. Um, we've got some air that's higher growth volume kind of in the Futland Park area. So, as you go by Phillips Toyota, if you will, on North 27 kind of I don't there's a stoplight right there after you pass Lake Griffin Park and
then there's that stoplight. Can't remember that road that comes in from your left, but that strip there um to the west in the Futland Park area, there's a lot of development out in there that's fed off the feeder that goes up and down 27 right there in front of Phillips. that that wire is old,
small, um, and so there's really a need for us to upgrade and change that wire out. And some of this is kind of a mix of what is a customer-driven project where we'll try to shift those cost to developers, but some of this is also a system cost that we need to fix on our
own. That's an US issue. So, we we marry those together. Um and then the last the last item there uh it's the 6265ish uh to to continue our transformer um replacements as we go um in in the in
the north substation. And the north substation is the the substation that's off um kind of in in the rough area Lewis Road in the red road kind of up in that area is where North Substation is. Um those are really the electric projects I wanted to touch on. um our
power supply costs. We estimate our power supply cost at 49.8.8. So this this number right here, 49.8 um million. That's the single biggest expenditure in the budget. A lot of detail goes into this little chart. Um,
so of the, you know, you're you're considering a 200, I think the all in, it's $25 million budget, all funds in the there's 25% of it right there is is the power that you purchase. Um, so just I feel obligated just to talk a little
bit about it. Um, it if you look at these numbers and you break it down into megawatt hours over the the past few fiscal years, we've been doing pretty well. If you recall when we had the big spike um a couple years ago in the power cost adjustment that actually brought this many people into the room to talk
about that um really that number in in a year if I just off the top of my head was about 100 bucks a megawatt. So before that we were in the 75 to $80 a megawatt. FMPA has done really a super good job from that time fighting gas
prices, working hedging, those type of things to come back to get our price to 78 and it looks like we're going to end up around $84 uh this year. So, you got to ask me Menor, why are we at why is your estimate for just a little south under $50 million at $92 a megawatt? Um
that's a good number. Stick with it. it won't I knock on wood it hopefully goes down. Um the reason it's up and Jimmy keeps looking at me but that the reason it it's it's higher is because partial the way through this fiscal year the
FMPA hedging program starts to stop. So they'll they'll move that block out as they buy hedges and then hopefully we'll see that number come down. Um so assuming they don't we've planned for $92 a megawatt. Does that does that ultimately
shift into a price reduction to be determined? And so that's kind of where I'll stop on on that and talk about pricing. Um, as you guys know, we went into fiscal year 25 thinking we may
need to have kind of a a rate adjustment. So, let me talk real quick about that. The the the rate structure for us is two-tiered. We have the fuel adjustment that that we call the bulk pass cost to power adjustment which the commission has given the city manager
the authority to manage on a monthly basis. We try to keep that as consistent as possible. Right now it's two cents or two and a half cents can't remember. Um so that one we change monthly based on where the fuel costs go. The second one
is the price that you all set which is the what we call the base rate. We have been toying with the concept last year and into this year that we may need a base rate increase. I'm recommending to you all this year
that we don't do a base rate increase. We've had these discussions with the uh electric advisory board. Um I think when I left them in June, we weren't able to meet this month because obviously because of the budget workshops and different things. Um and but we did have
correspondence. But based on the latest numbers that came in, I'm I'm very hopeful that I think we can manage at the same rate. So as we went into fiscal year 25 saying let's watch and see and keep an eye on it. I'm going to come back to you again and say let's watch
and see and keep an eye on it. So moving into October, I'm I think we can positively say there won't be an increase. But as we get into second, third, fourth quarter of 26, you know, based on those numbers, based on where
hedging goes, based on where gas goes, we may need to look at that. The biggest reason, um, there's a couple reasons why, um, I think that happens. One of them is, I'm not going to cheer about this chart. You know, this is the cash
chart we always go to. But the cash from where I was yelling, you know, a year year and a half ago in here about worried to death and and drop below. Remember the remember the lines. This this line is our recommended reserve line. The top of I'm just going to go
with the top of the blue line that remember that's total cash and some of that's restricted like the BCPA money. So, but total cash is starting to make a rebound in the last year and part of that's from us scrimping down on our our
expenses and really being conservative and frugal about so back to that CIP phase that slide. So, I will say it's looking better that gives us more comfort that I think we can kind of keep the needle in the red and and watch it.
Um, I I don't feel that that's a bad position to do because you have the cash to lean on it. We're very good, I think, at managing that on the fly. I don't see us doing anything crazy in terms of what we saw in terms of the BCPA. Um, and part of that was leaning on our cash. We
don't have that reserve. So, I don't see us making that mistake again. But I I feel comfortable that we have enough time to react, provide enough information to our customer base if we need to make that rate increase. But I think we can move into the fiscal year
safely, keeping the base rate uh where it's at. And on that note, if we move over to the other side of the house, Paul got the updated on the BCPA numbers and we are right on target with our assessments for the power cost adjustment numbers. So, so fortunately
probably no base increase moving into the fiscal year and then unfortunately probably no decrease on the power cost adjustment because we have that set pretty good to where we're recovering and underreovering where we should be
pretty much right on frankly we're within a $200,000 spread. So that's a $200,000 spread into three million bucks. So that that we've been lucky so far this year. Lucky lucky or good, whichever one you want to go with. Um
um so there's there's your rate comparisons kind of where we're headed. Um your debt you you know the so in in the electric fund which is old stuff. Um and then the highlights. Um so and and again this kind of backs up where we're
at uh again. So the first one monitoring the rate. So no rate increase moving into the fiscal year. Part of the part of this comes from the relief that we saw in shifting over the metering from GE to Ittron which we should have the
full impact of that end of first quarter 26. So that we we saw some really help with that. that then helped us go back in and one of the areas where we starting to skim where we saw the cash decrease to help us manage that and keep
our rate down. We we we we shorted depreciation. So, as you guys know, in all our proprietary funds, we budget for depreciation. So that's the value of all our assets with the formula and and you know based on how much we so we take cash out of our pocket. We put it in a
special fund for depreciation for planned repairs. And when you do that your cash graph looks nice because you got the cash. But when you don't do that and you short depreciation your cash graph looks bad. But again I think we
made that call with the determination that cash was high. we can lean on cash to subsidize the rate. Frankly, I'll brag on the utility and you guys and the electric advisory board because this is where I, you know, I can't stress enough that this is where being a localowned
utility benefits our customers. I know our customers sometimes complain about high prices and electric rates are horrible, but again, they're regionally one of the best and I think we do a super good job of managing that. So, um, our we really strive to keep the rates
low, to keep the lights on, and to work safe. That's really become, um, our motto in in the electric fund, and and they're they're your competitors, um, with the region. Um, Duke is still high, they're going up. CO and the city stay
kind of nip and tuck. Um, one of the things I'm really proud about is that our rate looks like an FPL rate. And FPL is the, you know, the elephant in the state. the most customers, the most profitable, the they're the most uh legislatively active. Um they're the
they're the they're and I'll say it out loud, in my opinion, FPL is really the driver of the train when it comes to politics in Tallahassee. Munis are horrible. Munis don't respond. MUN's got bad rates. Well, guess what? Our rates better than FPL's. Um and those are the
important things. So when when customers yell at you or electric advisory board members, those are the things I hope that are in your pocket that we prep you with to remind our customers what we do for them on the electric side of the house because nobody likes to pay their electric bill. Um with that, um just a
couple of other things, depreciation being back up is good. And then we're able to now just maybe in fiscal year 26 start sliding some more money back into capital projects to do system change outs and that kind of stuff. And you can bet that Brad and I and the team will be
having constant conversations about cash and CPIs. Um, these are the detail slides and I'll stop there. Any questions on electric? Ju just one question. It may not even be a fair question. Um, you I saw the gas
prices or cost of uh our cost going up in the first half of the year. You referenced the hedging by FP FMA. Do we have any idea how FPL, Duke, I assume they are hedging? I mean, I know we hedged in 22 when gas prices spiked. You know,
I didn't know. You see what I'm saying? I assume they hedge too at the same time. Look, and in all honesty, if we can bring FMPPA in, and if you if you guys want conversation, but here's here's here's kind of the our level conversation. Everybody in the industry is hedging. Um, and everybody's hedging at about the
same levels. So I think I think we have you you answered my question right there that every and it and it's about 75% of our gas load that we have hedged. Um and so and so that's the difference and so as you see those numbers start to tick up where as the hedging kind of slides out
that's those are the futures that we haven't covered yet. So that's why I think that 9214's high but that's what it is right now because we haven't hedged out in those last couple quarters of next fiscal year. Yeah. Now, just for the public, when we talk about gas, we're talking about natural gas. Natural gas.
And everybody should be aware that 75% of the electricity generated in the state of Florida comes from natural gas. So, as natural gas spikes without hedging, we get into problems.
Yeah. And that and and I don't want to belabor the point because I know we got other stuff to talk about, but but if if if I get 30 seconds to talk about one more thing on electric, I think it's really important. We hear a lot of talk about solar and green and wind and these type of stuff. But it's not just
Florida. It's a nationwide phenomena. We the nation still relies heavily on natural gas. So as we see those prices go up, energy drives everything. Um so it's not a Florida thing. It's not a Leburg thing. It's a nationwide reliance
on natural gas to run our power plants. Um, just one other thing that's an FMP thing. Uh, the uh when we have a storm and we're uh our electric's off. If you compare how long our electric is off to
what Duke does, what uh Florida Power and Light does, we're about 24 hours ahead on our reconnects uh than those services are. So, you know, having your own local utility is a
huge huge advantage to the citizens of Leburg. So you made a note that you don't recommend we do the rate increase but in October. What did you say again? No. So fiscal year fiscal year starts October one.
So moving into October one no increase most likely. Okay. If we start needing a rate increase, probably going to be into second quarter, middle of third quarter
26. So in English, what does that mean for folks? Uh October, November, January, February, March, April. you know, we we'll want to make a determination in that January to April time frame if we
need a rate increase so that you're not whacked in the summer when your usage goes up. Okay. Thanks. Okay, that's electric. Gas very similar in issues. Um gas gas um gas we look
very similar in issues and then I'm going to come out and say gas does have about a 3% CPI built into their rate. Um and that's that that's inflationary issues as well. Um you know their cash levels here are looking reasonable.
They're about 4 million bucks above the recovery but we're we're still working aggressively with growth with other issues with inflation with some main trunk lines we got to get in the ground. Um I so um really long story short
that's gas. Um the the main issues there in gas is trying to build the new facility. Um actually Corey our gas director received the first draft of the new HQ building. And remember with the HQ building headquarters um we're trying
to knock out three birds with one stone. And that's to get gas out of downtown so that we can have that area for parking. So we'll talk about that in a little bit. Um, and then with with with that flip-flop, we can shuffle the deck. I I'll just you guys know that
conversation, so we'll talk about that in the CIPs. Um, and then and then build a new home for gas with their office needs, their storage needs. Um, and then marry it with more storage needs, the electric department needs with some some
new uh storage facilities. And then Andy um needs some record retention areas that are that stay cool and warm and dry uh for record retention purposes because the facilities she has now at the gas department are not a model. So um we set
aside a million bucks for that. Uh this fiscal year of that million bucks we spent roughly 125,000 on the design that I just was talking about. Um and that leaves about 875,000 for construction. We did not do a uh allocation for more
construction dollars in the gas fund primarily because they have the cash to lean on it. So we kind of want to get out the bid, see where that goes, get this that so we may be coming back to you if we're starting if we see that number starting to exceed you know the the first I want to keep that number
small so we work within our budget but we never again we never know these things until we go out to bid and see where it's at. Um, so I I feel okay moving forward with that, but I also feel like if we've missed this number, as long as it's something not crazy, we'll have the cash
to fall back on it. Um, position adding these positions, which we talked about a little bit on Monday night, um, is in there. And then, uh, Cory's kind of two big projects are, um, extending gas mains down 33 and 48. and um the the the
requirement from FDOT to move the gas line because of widening the turnpike there are two big projects and I just I want to touch on this project CR33 and 48 a little bit because I don't want folks to misinterpret growth as a cause
for why we're extending a gas main down 33 and 48 in the gas and electric world more so even in the gas world than the electric world gas is a utility that is seen as
not a requirement. So de operators of gas system whether you're the public side or the private sector side gas is seen as a choice. And so those investorowned utilities who extend gas lines are doing it really yes at risk
because they're banking on customers using gas appliances or gas services to to necessitate those main extensions. That's us. So we're just like Apopka Gas. We're just like Tiko People's Gas, um Sun City Gas or whatever. Um, so
we're banking on we're going to have development potentially up the 3348 corridor and we're going to need to extend a 6 inch main loop in systems and so we that doesn't mean we're going to spin that. Um, but it means we need to be thinking
about it and having it there. Um the turnpike issue totally separate issue that's the states widening the turnpike and the statutes are written that it's incumbent on the utilities to move the stuff out of the state's way so that we're going to see that on the
water and sewer side. Water and sewer is different in the world. Uh water and sewer is seen as a needed utility. So therefore, governments who typically manage water and sewer, um we try to pass those extension costs on to developers. Gas
and electric a little bit different. Um that's gas. Any questions on gas? Uh special revenues. Um housing. Uh not a whole lot to report on housing. You know, we we manage the this is pretty much the Miss Pimmons apartments. Uh
Sandra I think has done a super good job keeping those apartments filled working with the county on the the subsidies and things we get for rent subsidies and those type of things and once we get out of the Miss P Simmons there's not a whole lot to talk about in housing any
questions on the housing division the um when the time for the residents there what is the time frame are they locking to us I think it's a year or I I I'm going to guess a year but let me get back to you on that answer.
Okay. So, uh with housing kind of the last proprietary fund is the building fund and as you know uh the way the statutes are written and the building fund is another fund that's really honked by lobbyists and then instead of you know the big investor in utilities it's the construction industry and the
construction is a is a is a a big and powerful lobby as well. Um and and the and the and the laws are written such that your building fee your building fee per your building fees should equal what
it costs to um to operate your building department. And so what we saw is in high times of growth, we saw um money coming in, our cost staying low, and our reserves building. Um and so uh that phenomena has has gone on a little
bit around the community. you saw different uh cities handle it differently, but if you recall back in about the 2018 period, we said and and so these number, you know, so it's not a lot. I mean, it's a lot of money for me and you, but fundwise. So, we were
sitting on 2 million bucks with the requirement back in 2018 that we only needed, you know, about 250,000 in a reserve requirement. So, that's indicative our fees are a little high. We can reduce those. So, if you recall in 2018, we endeavored to reduce our
building fees from the 2018 level. And we did that, I think, if I recall, in two steps uh to now we're about 25, our fee is about 25% of what they were in 2018. And we've kept our fees down there. We've grown our department a
little bit. Um and all the while, uh we anticipated, and this was the first chart we did, we anticipated our cash levels dropping off. And by fiscal year 24, we we were going to come back to you and say, "Hey, we need to increase our rate." G guess guess what? We were
wrong. But we were wrong good because we didn't need to increase our rate in 24 like we originally thought. We need to increase it for fiscal year 26. So if you jump back to this chart, what you see is we've we've dwindled down our reserves as we should, which so so that
money needs to go back into the people's pocket or the contractor's pocket. um and and get a market rate fee so they're only paying for a fee that justifies the expense of inspections. Um so I think we've done a good job of kind of staving
off increases. Um but that that time is passed. We've we've whittleled down that fund as much as we can. So effective October one, we are recommending to you that we go back from our current rate to our 2018 rate. And so similar to how we
talk about the the the the fleet trans the the fleet fund in terms of a percentage of where we are, we need to go back to the 100% level. Um so um what does that look like? That looks like this is a super complicated fee structure. And of all our funds,
building is really it's not a complicated fee structure, but there's just so many different permits that you come into. a fence permit, a pool permit, you know, house permit, AC permit, electrical. So, it's it's it putting all that stuff in one slide and
trying to pull it down is extremely difficult. So, this this line up here I I think is is like the baseline to compare. So, if we go back up, um, what we wanted to do is if we go back up to
where our fee was in 2018 to build the typical house, a single family house, and I think that's about 2,000 foot house or so, it will cost you uh or a contractor or a person or whoever about 2500 bucks to build that house. And
here's where everybody else is at. Groveland 5,900. Eustace 4,900. Mount Door 3100. Lady Lake is relatively inexpensive. Claremont uh 2900 mascot. There you see the numbers and and Lake and Septer County remained relatively
inexpensive. But that is that's a 2018 number. Um that's really where we think we need to be. So basically every fee goes back to where it was in 2018. If you all are okay um and understand it at the workshop level, what we'll be doing
is we'll be bringing you a rate resolution. Like we talked about, there's going to be lots of little things between now and October 1st where you formally say yay or nay. We'll be bringing you a rate resolution that implements these effective for October one. I'll also say I think um we'll talk
a little bit in regular meetings about um impact fees. Um, but I the feedback that I've received from various sources, mostly in the construction industry, I think I think everybody's pretty much prepped that impact fees and building
fees need to go up. So, I don't think that going back to your 2018 is going to bring all the contractors in the room. I may be wrong, uh, but I I don't anticipate it. Um, this here again is kind of the detail of all the, uh, the
fees. Um, and then your details. That's the building fund. Any questions there? All right. Um, being no questions there, um, now we're going to kind of move into where I anticipate you guys will have
more discussion. Um, the remainder of the evening, we're going to talk about our CRAAS. Um, and the CRAAS, there's some CRAAS really up for some discussion and some different stuff. There's some other CRAAS. You really can't spend another penny. Um, and and then there's
some CRA and like I said, so we'll get into that discussion. Now, the first CRA really that you can't spend another penny is the downtown Leburg CRA. um the increment uh as you see that there's a little bit of there's a little bit of
cash reserve and in the CRA um 400 grand that's not a whole lot of money but really that this CRA brings in about 1.1 uh $1.1 million and remember that increment it really comes from two places that comes from the increment of
from the baseline when that CRA was created to today that increment that doesn't go into the general fund that goes in the downtown CRA fund and then whatever your taxing rate of the county and the city is which is basically these two numbers that goes in together and
then that money has to be spent in the district instead of in the general fund. So where are we going to spend $1.2 million? Uh well the first one is I'm going to go right to this is we have to spend half of that on the on the CDC.
That goes back to the decree. We were forced um and we capitulated back in was decree was 1997. So half of the downtown CRA money goes to um the CDC. Really the
other two places it goes to is one the debt on the main street project Brandy that retires in three years. So six, seven, eight and then that 100 grand is done. is
um 27 will be the last payment. 27. So 67 um one more two more fiscal years. Um so uh you've got the CDC payment, you've got the debt payment for the Main Street project. Um and the Main Street project is is
I'm gonna say this one more time and then I won't be labor anymore. I feel like I got to talk more because there's a bunch of people in the audience. I think you guys kind of know where everything's at. Um, Main Street was the main street project and all the trees and the extension from 9inth Street to 27, the big arches and all that. That was a million bucks and we've been
paying about a hundred grand a year on that project. Um, special events, it was really the new expense. So, we created the special events division. That was that is now in the third year of its operations. So when the partnership decided not to do partnership stuff anymore, we picked
that baton up and we funded all that stuff with the partner wi with events bike f bike fest expense is over in the general fund you looked at Monday but the special event stuff is all the special event fourth of July Christmas yada yada yada um
that's the downtown CRA. Just a question. Do you think long term having the special events in the CRA will hurt it from future projects and we should look at some fund that some somewhere else? Yes. But but I think that's a you call.
Um when we made the call to do special events, we thought that that was important. We thought that the CRA was a good fund to house it. Um a a and it was within the CRA master plan. It's an eligible expense, so we're working within the rules. And I and I
think the dangers are the sunset of this more than anything. You know, a we know the CRAAS are going to sunset. Um and once they sunset, um that expense is going to have to come to roof somewhere and and you know where somewhere is.
Yeah. It's the general fund. So yes, is the answer to your question. I would I would also say don't worry about it until I think we need to keep an eye on it. I wouldn't change the funding mechanism until a
we're forced to or b it sunsets naturally. So the force two is as you guys know this legislative session there was lots of talk at the state legislature about sunsetting CRAAS and the initial legislation was sunset all
CRAAS except for debt effective October 125. um that legislation really got watered down and rolled back um because you know the scuttleb was this the state legislature was picking on one community
um and so I think a special bill or a local act occurred to address that. Does the CRA banter get picked up again this session? Probably. Does anything happen from it?
I don't know. So your question Mary goes back to the two things. When does it metriculate naturally and when is it forced to? And if it's forced to you you you're going to have two big questions on your hand. Uh how do we deal with the CDC and how and what do we
do with special events? My only thing was like future facade landscape grants, anything like that. We haven't funded those in a while. So we don't have funding for those. So just on the radar. Thank you. Um, I have a question for special
events. Are we allowing additional events to be added or those are the set ones that we know? I mean, uh, so the question is we can add whatever we want within 4003,46 $61. So, so my question is we only named two
or three, but does the special events group have anything to add for this year? So, it's still the same what it's been. Okay, that's they have popup events all the time. If you follow them on social media, they have a No, I mean largely funded within this. No, I mean, so basically the majors,
right? The Christmas parade, the Fourth of July. I know I'm missing a couple in there by Halloween. So, and then there's the little stuff that pops up every little stuff we're adding all the time, you know, if it's a dimminimous type of impact, but nothing major. Okay.
Yeah. Any questions on downtown? Um, Carver Heights. Carver Heights and 441 is probably where you have the most flexibility. So Carver Heights, uh, they're sitting on about 280,000 in cash
and they're bringing in about a million dollars a year. Um, so we've set up um there's there's there's kind of three areas uh that the the the Carver Heights uh budget has. first kind of the
personnel and housing service and operation expenses for the resource center and the debt on the resource center. So these are kind of all fixed expenses. So you know there's not a whole lot we can do there. It paying bills and and and cost of services of
running that CRA. So it's self- sustaining. It's fixed in the CRA. There's no bleed out into the general fund. Uh we did debt to build the resource center kind of like we did with the main street. That's the So, long story short, these expenses, you got to
pay them. I mean, you can nip and tuck that if you know, but you're there's not a lot to nip and tuck in there, but the good thing is you you do after you pay these things that you have to pay. There's about 600 grand um in the budget
um actually the number is it's it's 600 plus and we and and the way your budget books went out is what you spent on the home grant program this year. We just copied that again this year. You're not fixed to do that. And I anticipate here
in the next minute when I zip it, you'll have some discussion. Um, so what is available for different programs and projects in the CRA is that 600 and this 163 660. Um, so we've had bunches of meetings. We've had different
discussions. So I have tried to string all these together with a price tag to get your feedback on how you want to move forward into fiscal year 26. Um, the biggest one is home grant. But look,
I and I stuck $600,000 there. You don't have to do that. You may want to do that. You may want to bring this down. Each of those grants is $25,000 bucks. So, how however many homes you want to do. We've been I I think the home grant's been successful in Carver
Heights and we fixed or about to fix over 20 homes. So, that's starting to I think make a little bit of dent. I think that home grant's been received well. So, I think this is probably a priority you want to fund. At what level is really up to your determination because
you may want to start peeling money away from this as we've accumulated some successes so you can fund other things. So, what other things would you fund? So, these are uh input from uh the CRA board as well as the city commission. Um
and Berry Park surveillance um is is one concerns about public safety and those type of things. Would that tie into the police department view or something like that? The surveillance cameras. Yeah. But who would have access to that? Like would it would tie into the police department?
So they would be able to monitor it and Okay. And they do now um is my understanding. Um ADA improvements. Barry Park. Um, Commissioner Barry has wants you guys to reconsider a tutoring program that the
city would operate. We estimated a cost at that at 150 grand. An update, we talked about that a little bit, I think, at our last regular meeting. Estimated cost for an updated master plan, 150. Um, resurf, this is kind of a combo
thing. We've had some questions to reclose it. We we know we did the the the decorative fence around Berry Park, but we did two of the four sides. So, this number of 350 is an estimate to close the west side and along the trail
side that would totally secure Berry Park. So, you lose the chain link fence on those south and west sides and finish off paving of the parking lot. Um the other request that we got in for the the CRA was a um is some dredging and some
storm water improvement um in that area. This one is something I think I would advise you to take this project out of the of the CRA and go to storm water. Okay. So with that, I'm that that's
really the highlights of the CR the Carver Heights CRA and and I don't think you need to. You've got again several weeks to consider where you want to go, but those seem to be the projects of of priority coming from the feedback my
office has received. And so, you know, the sticktick, it's it's how everything's interchangeable, you know, whatever levels, you know, now you've got derivatives thereof. But I think these are the areas that seem to be getting the highest demand.
Have a question where this reservice and the fencing would that assist our police with the issues they're having in that area with and then is that include like a fence on Berry Park to keep people from sleeping in there and vehicles and things like that. Yes. So I think that's something we should
consider because I think that's a high police issue out there when that comes to that park. Um, are we able to ask? I think the surveillance if the police that would assist the police from surveillance that might be something we should consider. What is the ADA
improvements? There's playground equipment and and those type of things, sidewalks, making sure everything's I mean, if that's a safety issue or something like that, we should probably address that as well. Those are just my two cents. I thought the disability issues with ADA
that Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But there's But I mean, isn't it important that we now have a three-sided part fence? So, we want to secure it. So, adding the fence on the foreside makes definitely makes sense to control.
When I did a couple cleanups out there, you have people driving from the trail into the park and things like that. So, if that would prevent that and people driving down the trail, I think this those kind of improvements might help that. Driving in the park as well. Driving in the park. Yeah, I think the
fence should go around the parking lot to prevent people from driving through the park, too, but keep people from driving all over out there. So, just my two cents. I think I made this comment before when this came up, but I I don't really understand why we need a CRA master
plan. Um, I look at that as six home improvement grants, you know, or, you know, it looks like we have plenty of ways to spend money. I guess that's my only that's my only reaction. I look at the board. Other than that, I'm pretty open-minded to what the commission wants to do. My opinion is that the uh the home grant
program is the most important thing we're doing out there. Increasing the value, getting people to buy into their home, making it nicer is is going to help the community
as much or more than than any of these other things in my opinion. Now, mayor, they had a there a couple people whispering that you might have some public input if you want to take it. Do we want to accept public input? I'm fine. Can I get it one way or another? Yeah.
I'm not good. So, if you're coming up to speak, um, just state your name and address for the record and you do have three minutes. [Music] Samantha Bentley, Ponder, 1204 Baker Street. I have a question about the home
improvement grant being um on on that side. Um on my side, on the east side, I've had people asking me, can we receive the preference as well? Because on the website where it's listed about the grant, it sounds like it's for all of Leburg, but it says preference is given to that neighborhood. So, I wanted
clarification for my neighbors on that. The money has to be spent in that CRA district by law and the downtown CRA has no more money as you heard earlier and I think we're looking at putting grants for the 27441.
Yeah. Um so yeah so so on that note and we've had this kind of discussion agnosium I feel like Bob Barker you want to get this one. Don't let this count against my three minutes. Okay. Pause my time. So
long answers me the the so the the story there has been we created the home grant program two years ago um and it was it's a citywide program we have basically four ways to fund the CRA program from the general
fund from the Carver height CRA from the 44127 CRA and from the downtown CRA we don't the commission has opted to only fund the home grant from the Carver Heights CRA. So, if we're only going to fund the
home grant from the Carver Heights CRA, that means that money has to be spent in the Carver Heights CRA. So, it can only be homes in the CRA because remember those are the incremental boxes. So, where you get the TIF money, the TIF money has to be spent in that box. So,
if you had 44127 CRA monies, then you could only spend it on homes in that box. And that that box is basically really the only place there's residential homes. It's kind of over there by John L. Jones Park in the downtown CRA park CRA. You could
address homes kind of in the east Pine Street, but there there hasn't been money for that. Any place that we haven't mentioned CRAAS, the the general fund then could pick up everybody because it's all inclusive. Um, however, the commission just hasn't
opted to do that. I'm sure Commissioner Barry will talk to you again uh because she has brought up this conversation agnosium. So really, however you all want to fund um the home grant and for the p since its inception, we've chosen
just to fund it in the Carver Height CRA. So, when I spoke to um individuals in my community just asking what I could bring and what we have need of, uh people mentioned things like beautifification. Like we have some areas in our sidewalks where tree roots have uprooted and made it where people
can't the kids can't ride their bike smoothly or walk safely in that particular area because of uprooting. But the thing that I heard repeated was the home improvement. we have some people who are older, people who are lowincome who own homes and the houses are become delop dilapidated and they
can't afford to fix them. So that's why I'm bringing it up. So I'm like, is there a way that we can look at this on how that could be extended to my side of town? Whether it's looking at how the special events money is funded or if it could be some type of hybrid where part of it comes out of us, the other part
comes out of the general fund or something. I don't know what the idea may be, but I know that people need that on my side of town, and they keep telling me. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right. Good evening, Robert
Alderman, 1113 Beer Street, Leburg, Florida. Um I know uh I was supposed to get this to you in email. I apologize. A couple things I want to be under the priority uh project priorities for the car height CRA. One of those things I
would like to be on there is that the gateways uh into the community into into Montlair into Carver Heights uh that we have a an LED signage board established at the gateways like right
there across from where the fireplace is and and the other end. And this way we can communicate information to the people that live in that community. And I think that's uh important because I feel like there's a lot of things that happen that the
people in that community they are not aware of. And I think if we establish a better way to communicate in these days and times the digital board would be probably I think a good way to do it because Facebook is not I don't look at Facebook all the time. I'm on there but
I have a lovehate relationship with Facebook. That's just what it is. So, um I feel like that would be something that should be added to the project priorities that we put a signage board at the gateways. And that way, I mean,
this can not only be used for the people in that community, it can be used for, you know, communicating things from the city of Leburg, you know, bike week, anything that's happening. So, it's not it'll not just benefit that community. it I think it'll benefit you know Leburg
overall plus I think it'll be a model for saying things that can be done throughout the city. So that's one of the things I would like to have added to the project priorities. The other thing that I would like is I feel like in that particular
community, we need like a mini community center that can service things like uh people having meetings there and they don't have to worry about, hey, I got to drive across town or I got to drive out to Montlair because we can use the resource center out there for people in Montlair, but right there in that
community somewhere. I know I mentioned where the pool was and I'd heard an argument that parking may be a problem and but I'm sure there's some other area that we could probably establish some type of community center or it doesn't have to be called community center
activity center or something that people in that neighborhood can go and access training or uh just events can be held something just right there. So, I've I've seen this in places like I think West Palm Beach. They got local things,
not wait, I got to go way over here to the Venetian Center, just right there in the community. And um those were two things I've I've had on my mind. And uh another thing I would like to piggyback on her is being that I actually lived on both sides of
town. I live in Carver Heights now, but I lived on the other side and I still have relations on that other side. And we do need help on that side of town, you know, on East Street and all that area needs some type of help, you know, so I just want to piggy back and add that in.
Thank you, Commissioner Alderman. Any other public comments on this? All right, we'll close that and take it back to the commission. Any commissioner comments before we let Al start back up. All right.
Oh, okay. Yeah. May I just make a comment? Um I just wanted to make sure that I'm understanding the gateways will be where we have our entrances now for
so this is only for where we're talking about CRA. So you're only looking at entrances information on the CRA area for Montlair West. Okay. because we also have a beautifification that we're trying to
establish with the signs as well throughout Leburg. Just the FYI, I'm aware. And then I have a question far as um the home improvement grants and I know that Al will probably go into detail further, but um the CRA for
Carver Heights Montclair is the only one that has been able to fund this project for the last three years. And we are aware that downtown is no money available. That's been stated and cleared, but we're hoping that we could possibly go to another CRA, but Al
explained later. I understand that. I just wanted to say I I I agree that that side of town does need help. I mean, I I I have ties into both sides, so I care about both. I care about the whole of Leburg. Don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying, but I do have personal ties on both sides. That's
Thank you. [Music] All right. So, moving on from the Carver Heights CRA, then we move into the 44127 CRA. Uh the 44127 CRA, I will not belabor the history of of where we've
been there. But the decrease in funds, you know, our our policy in the 44127 CRA has been to keep as much money as we can rolling so that we can cover the bond that crashed when the CRA was created. Um, we have significantly
achieved that goal and the expense in in the CRA becomes paying that bond which is about a million bucks and then what do we do with the money left over? So, this CRA brings in about three million bucks. Um, and and the bond is about a
million bucks, which leaves about two. How long how long's that bond been? 2036. 2036. 36. Um, and and so so this year or last year in preparation for fiscal year 25 when
we did Susan Street, we identified that our bases on the bond are covered. Therefore, we had significant revenues that we could grab from and that's the decrease. So, we we
stashed the cash which I think in this case was specifically permitted uh based on the bond and indebtedness that was associated with the CRA. Um, now that we've identified that the CRA has now
grown out of that danger period when we recalculated the base, we've got about a 3 million, a $3 million fund, 3.4 to be exact. So the bond payment 8.90 that leaves you with 2.5. So you've got about $2.5 million to determine what you want
on this fund. So Susan Street is paid for, you know, barring any calamity during construction. Um, and so now we're back to the principle of do you want to take this money and and go back
to squirreing it away to secure the note? Do you want to peel a little bit of off to hit miscellaneous things? um the the we we talked a little bit about this. So I didn't put a slide in the presentation, but there's really been only one discussion point and if you
were to spend some of this money from the feedback that that I would give you to you is again Commissioner Barry has spoke about trying to extend the home program into this CRA. This CRA is probably the most commercialbased of all
our CRAAS, but there is a small portion of the the of the CRA pretty much on the block that faces 441 near John L. Johnson Park where where those homes in that area kind of there around um Holiday Marine um where there you may
pick up some. So, if you want to carve some home money out in that area from the 44127 CRA, I you you certainly have the financial ability to do it. I would advise you probably don't carve out more than 50 grand uh because or that's two
or or 100 grand because I I don't think um you're going to get a lot of participation in that area, but at least you have it and you've expanded the CRA grant. And the other one is more of a beautifification thing. We talked about it last year. It didn't pick up a lot of
traction, but I think one of the things in the corridor that we need to do is expand the facade sign landscape grant. Um I think the the down the the US 27 corridor in is specific where we still
I don't mean the words that I'm about to say is derogatory, but we still see a lot of the old old signage ways. Is that a better way to say it? And the old signage ways is those monopole signs. So it looks, you know, so those old monopole signs and every community is is
that that's like Leburg has those where you see you going through the 1950s where you got the the the monopole and the signage. So concepts and really nationwide, we've gone into the monument style signs where we bring those signs down a little bit lower. It makes it
more more, you know, more ambiance, prettier. Um, we even have a code that says you have to get these signs changed out at time certain. Time certain has long gone past, but we we haven't actively initiated enforcement on
businesses. My suggestion in this case is if you want to affect aesthetics, it's specifically in the 27 corridor, we need to up the Annie like we did on the home grant. We didn't get a lot of participation in the home grant until we
made that uh grant value that was significant to where the city's tiff money took on the burden of that expense. So, in our program, we probably if we were going to go address and we have a list of non-compliant signs, we're not going
after you, but we have a list of non-compliant signs. Um, that those would be the targets of what would in what what you know, and a sign these days is anywhere between 30 to 50 grand. So, you know, so you you you know, we
cap out at 20 grand and I think and it's a it's 80% of the 20 grand. So that's so we're capping out at 18,000. So businesses are still looking at 20 30 grand out of their pocket to match with ours. And I think you probably really
have to flip that switch and look at it to where you're giving up to x% or up to 40 grand. And so we need to maggyver those numbers. But I think if you took and I think you need to take a significant number like a million dollars and put it to that program and
upgrade the facade sign facade sign landscape grant. So then we would assign staff to go out to businesses and market this program so that you could so so that you could tackle that corridor. One of the other I'm going to mention this and I'm going to zip it. One of the
other things that I think also as a beautifification thing in the 27 corridor that would make life really nice is to underground electric utilities. Having said that, I will say this, it will never happen. And it that will
never happen because uh Duke Energy, I'm not blaming Duke. Uh Duke Energy has the giant transmission line that pretty much starts at Pixola and goes all the way down our corridor. And in that area, we actually piggyback on their poles. Um,
I'm going to guess that undergrounding uh the the cost to remove a transmission pole of that size is a million bucks. So, a million bucks times all those poles. Brad, am I out of whack on that? Brad's saying four million a pole. Um,
so I don't see you ever underground. I don't the big giant transmission line that cuts down the center of our 27 corridor is never going away. So I think we're always going to have that issue, but we can but we what we can do in our
power is to tackle the signage and I think you have the funds to do it. So home grant and and facade sign landscape grants is where I would point your attention to with those funds. I I'd like to ask for um the Susan Street project. I know you're
anticipating done, but what possibly could come afterwards that we might need to um fund extra cuz I could very well hope to see in future like expanding from Susan Street to additional splash pad to something going on around.
Right. Um, so Commissioner Barry and I had a conversation uh earlier uh and and she envisions once the rectangle fields at Susan Street are done that we continue adding on to that. So my suggestion is I think that that's a concept that probably needs to go in the
hopper for out years. Um, the problem with Susan Street, uh, fundingwise is, uh, right about where Susan Street goes into the park is the line between the
44127 CRA and the Carver Heights CRA. So, between those two CRAAS, you might be able to tackle some other areas. Uh we're also kind of stretching into a growth area of Susan Street behind the Publix Plaza where they're kind of
wetlands and we're we're extending those rugby fields into that area. And so I would I I I think that that's a project that we kind of need to keep our eyes on, see where this finishes up and then revisit that and out years how how you may want to grow the rectangle field
concept after this is done. I I feel good with where the budget's at right now for Susan Street. Again, barring any big crazy stuff, I don't see significant overruns. And if they do, you know, we do have the CRAAS to fall back in. Um,
you know, we we put that together that budget with a reasonable contingency. And at this stage, nothing really alarming has happened. Um, so that I think the plan the plan would be be conservative and put the 2.5 and and
hold on to it for your bonds or split a little bit of it off for FSLs and home and home program. I think I ask this every year. What is the interest rate on the bond? It's low. Okay, that that answers my You know where I was going with that.
2.5. Okay. Okay. No conversation there. We commissioner we've done to let me answer that question. We talk about different funds. I always ask we we all of our bonds that we have in all of our funds are all three or lower and and we did a really super good job
when interest rates dropped back in the day of refinancing everything. Thank you. I thought we had one or two that were high. That's why I was seeking clarification. Oh, the ones that we Okay, there's one or two that we do have are high but those are cash driven bonds.
That's fine. So when we ran out of cash, you know, back in I don't remember when we went and we borrowed money for cash purposes. So that's not going to give you the same interest rate a as a CIP. Um secondly, um I I like your
suggestions on, you know, the the corridors, you know, whether it's facade landscape grants, the home improvement grants. Um based on the money we spent in Susan Street, u what's the entrance now? Is it called Williams? Williams. Williams. I I would like to include that in some beautifification efforts to
those homeowners. I drove it just yesterday or day before. That would be Carver. That would be Carver or Okay. Well, is it You know what? Now you coming I'm I'm coming from 4427 to the entrance to Susan Street. Yeah, there may
I don't care where it comes from. I'm just throwing it out there. We're splitting hairs on terms of I'm just throwing out the idea. Which map are you looking? Yeah. So yeah, I saw the map, but that's I would either if you take some money from the 44127 CRA from both from both. And you've got money in the Carver
Heights CRA. You're going to capture William Street. Yeah, we're spending all this money uh on Susan Street. That entrance is not up to par. I'll just stop right there. But um that's the only ideas I have. I would support the home grant program
and then I would support the facade landscape sign program as well. I know Diane Yekl has already started sending in person going to these businesses. I think we maybe get, hey, you're in violation. We're not going to penalize you, but this is the money that we have available for you. I agree with our city
manager. We might need to raise that and go from there. and for commissioner specifically for commissioner Peterson's purposes and I won't mention any businesses uh but I will mention one of the things that we can add into the facade sign landscape grant that we need to increase its
signage we can also make dumpster screening part of that grant for those who might be non-conforming love it thank you thank you I think we've all complained about that yeah I've had my share of phone calls on that one um are is commissioners okay with the William Street including that it's it's
only about two two block two two blocks I think when you when you if you grab money for a home and you put it in 44127 you you got Williams covered okay thank you so is it just Williams or is it Ken too because I suppose the
interest I'll come back yes is the answer do you guys agree with the city manager's recommendation of the facade signing landscape grants the only comment than I have because you
said typical sign was 30 to 50 and then you said make this grant 40. I don't want to encourage people to spend more money but I'll let you have that. Let me tighten up those numbers. So what we'll do and again this would be one of those things we'll come back to you with a program where you're going to look at it in detail because you need to to
amend the FSL grant in in a resolution form. So that that's where you would encumber that concept. And so we'll so what we'll do based on this conversation is we'll start to drill into that and send back to you guys some concepts on how we expand that program. But in the past wasn't it 10 and 10
like just last year or year before? No. No. I think we started at 80% up to 20 grand. Yeah. But but it hasn't been working. No one's taking advantage of it because because they're so expensive. And just for the public out going back
to the uh uh the CDC receiving payment that that's a statutory thing that it it has to come out of that pool of money. Let me no let yeah but let me what it's it's not a
statutory thing. So let me explain and and that's an important delineation because I think I know where you're going. % of what that it is a court decree. It's a settlement. It's not statutory. But that's important to delineate
because if statute says like the when when the state legislature came out with the program to sunset all programs in the CRA except for debt the payment to the in my humble opinion
the payment to the CDC would be considered a program not a debt. So the action of the state legislature or the action of the state legislature to sunset CRAAS would then supersede the
court order. And so if if the state legislature made a law that sunset programming or existing program but for debt, I think then the that that action would then supersede the the court order
and then you wouldn't have to make the payment. my opinion, you know, I that's that's how that's how I would interpret that. Right. All right. But my my real question was the funding part of it. The funding part is required because
it's a judicial it's a judicial mandate, not a statutory one. Okay. Okay. So, you know, it's 50% 50% of the increment no matter what the increment is. So the judicial action is 50% of the increment, no matter what the
increment is. And you can't sunset the the the increment to get out of paying it. And that's the judicial order. And we don't have control as a board of how the CDC spends that money or where citizens could request. You know, the
city's doing home improvement grants. It certainly would be within citizens rights to request from that organization. Yeah. the same type of programming. And I think I would encourage, you know, I mean, we're trying to do it.
It we're kind of hamstrung that we can't do it because of funding, but we are giving those funds, putting them out there to that community, and that would be a good good place to start with that, I think. Could we could we as a city make a
recommendation letter to the CDC saying that they use some of those funds for home grants? I know we can't make them but we Yeah, you could absolutely write that letter. Ask we can send a letter there. Absolutely. You could write that would like that letter side also and maybe provide them how many people
that have applied that are aren't able eligible right now. Say this is how many people are. Would you be open to funding that out of your that funding because I think there are some um residents that applied originally that are applications are still on hold with
the with the intent that that would come later on. So yes, the commissioner Canel asked me has the state made the decision on the CRAAS yet and it's no. So that legislation came in. They really didn't move
forward. Um there is anticipation that this next session starting in January 26 more CRA more CRA estoppel legislation will be considered. Yes. As well as property taxes.
So so this next session should be instead of you know so we may be crying about CRAAS general fund taxes and electric rates as well. So lots of lots of stuff going on up there. I was stating, if I just would put back in, I mean, if you didn't hear me or understand me, I think there's some con
um residents that have already applied that we could possibly consider on the east side that their applications are in and on hold. I don't know how many. That would be a housing question. Yeah, consider. Yep. All right. Well, barring any other
questions, we'll move on. Um, so really the the discretionary sales tax gases and and and G. So these are we're moving into special revenues now. So just one disclaimer as we're trying to condense the budget process here in workshops because we you know we talk about a lot
of stuff. I think we have a really good feel on it. I will disclose in full disclosure we eliminated the discussion in these workshops on two funds. That's the capital improvement fund and the debt service fund. The reason we eliminated those are those are
replicatory accounting type funds. So any money that you spend from the general fund or the special revenue funds whether it's a capital improvement a direct capital improvement like pay as you go that money is going to get
shuffled over into the capital improvement fund. So, for example, if you buy a uh if you build a new city hall out of discretionary sales tax and you do it in cash and it cost a million dollars, you're going to have a million dollar expense in your DST fund and then
you're going to transfer it over to your CIP fund and have another million bucks uh of an expense. If you build a city hall with DST funds, but you do it with debt and you fund it through that, then you're going to have a then you're going
to have a DST to debt to capital improvement funds. So the D so the capital funds and the debt funds are everything that we talked about in in in these slides. And so based on whether we do it cash or with debt, it goes into
those funds. And that's just the GF general accounting principles for for government. So I didn't I didn't bring all the slides to talk about everything twice. So saying that the gas tax and the discretionary sales tax are your
really your two biggest and discretionary sales tax funds other than the general fund where we're going to talk about the half where we're going to do with half a million dollars on the cash that you have to make specific capital improvements. So, we bring in about $5.5 million in
DST funds. Of that money, about $3.4 of it we've already charged a credit card. Can't touch it. Okay. That's the police station. That's city hall. That's debt services we've done in the past. That's some shifting of funds to make things
work. So 3.4 4 million is if we were at the federal level that is a non-discretionary expense. Can't touch it. Okay. So, we get to talk about discretionary expenses. What you can spend. So, from that money left, you you
know, you've got about $2.5 million uh that you can spend. Uh what is it? Did I get my numbers backwards? I I did my math backwards. We got three and a half million. 3.5 is what you can put, but we're using cash. Okay. So, I did that. My dyslexia jumped
in. So, we get in about five and a half. Three. We get in about 3.7. Can I go back? We get in 3.7 and then we are using Oh, the fund balance. That's how I did that. We looked. So, I I I did the math wrong. So, we're still playing with
about 1.7 that we haven't spent. That's where you get to the 5.5. Okay. So, so you've got how much to spend? About two. I think we have about two and a half extra to spend. So you have competing demands for all of
that here. Does everybody get the clarification there? Everybody get the clarification there? Okay. So two and a half you can spend. Um so this chart
is kind of what we put together on where to spend it. Um the blue I'm gonna jump to the bottom because I think the road the road money gas money is easy. Um so a big chunk of that comes in. Uh we transfer it over to the general fund.
How much is that Brandy? How much total comes in gas tax? It's like 900,000 that we're paying. So just about a million in gas tax comes in to review how we get that. Those are the penny gas taxes and the different gas taxes that the county promulgates. We have agreements with the county on
how that money is distributed back to from the state to the county. Then the county we that the statutes say there's an automatic formula that benefits the political subdivisions or the statute says if you have a deal with your political subdivisions, you can do it
that way. We have a deal with our political subdivision as most municipal corporations in the state of Florida do and we have our deal basically is road miles and population across the county divided that up and we get a million dollars from that.
I will tell you we are a giver nation in in Lake County in in in discretionary sales or gas tax and discretionary as well but so gas tax about a million comes in. We peel off about 800 grand of that that goes right into the general fund to pay for street lights.
So, we get gas tax money in and it goes to Brad. I didn't mean to make Brad the bad guy. But so, every time when you go down 27 or Main Street or you look in your neighborhood and you got a light on that's the city, gas tax money pays for
that. That's an eligible expense. Um, and then it goes to fund, you know, whenever potholes or that kind of fun. This year is the first year in a while that we're kind of catching up in the general fund side. So, we're pulling a little bit of that back and we're putting it into roads that need to be resurfaced. So, roads and sidewalk
repair as part of that eligible fund. That's gas tax money. What have we averaged on sidewalk repairs historically? I mean, I see $50,000. Is it is that kind of been the number for I don't know. It seems light. I'll get you an answer. How many linear
feet of sidewalk do we repair a year? That's the question. I don't know. I'll get you an answer. Okay. It just seems a little light to me. I mean, it's light. It's expensive. I've heard somebody comment on broken I think I've heard at least once tonight and I get complaints in my neighborhood on broken sidewalks, but okay.
If you have those complaints, please let me know. We try to tackle them too as we go. Uh, okay. So, that's gas tax. Discretionary sales tax is probably the the conversation. Dour. Um, we have talked about capital improvements dour.
This is kind of how staff has organized it based on internal feedback, discussion, um, public meetings, and kind of the witching hours. Now, from this point moving into September on how you solidify where you're going to spend
those those um, monies, nothing in this chart is set in stone. I'm sure you're going to get lots of public input on on how to spend some of these dollars. How we have organized it as a staff level for your uh consideration is
continue the downtown parking project. Uh last year we allocated about $1.2 million for that. Um we um we spent about 150 on it uh for design. So we have a million that we haven't spent. We
anticipate that that project may or may not be above that number, probably above, but the number one priority is to continue to shift money to that project so we don't run out of money. I anticipate having the initial draft of
the parking concepts the end of next week. Um, that will be presented to you shortly. we'll start to start dissecting it and splitting it up and doing what we do with capital projects. My hope is
that first part of 26 we can get out to bid so that by summerish of 26 construction starting and some of that remember is going to go handinhand into with what we do with the gas department.
So that's number one on the list 1.5. If you put 1.5 into that fund, you now have $2.7 million for parking or other things related to parking for downtown. Um, I would recommend firmly that you
keep that pot. Hopefully, we're under that and then you would have option to put money back into the pot for other projects or put other money back into downtown because what we're seeing is money for downtown is not available in the downtown CRA because of how we've
rearranged wires over there. And I think the commission all I think all the commissioners know this but for the benefit of the audience um we allocate we budgeted 2.5 million for downtown and parking in 2020 and it's been basically siphoned off every year. So that's why I've been vocal that's why Al pointed at
me. That's I mean that's it. We we had a large allocation that we never got to. COVID came money's got shifted around to do different things and we never got back to it. Are we going to get this conceptual plan next week or something before we spend any more money on this?
Uh, the only money that we spent, commissioner, on this has been on design. So, yes. So, we won't spend any more until we have the conceptual. I'm not going to say that because we might have design bills we have to pay. So, I would say we will spend money on design, but we won't spend any on construction until you all see it.
Yeah. It'll go out to bid. They come back. The design you're referring to, you're saying it's like a conceptual design we're going to get next week. I hope to have that the end of next week, but I don't want to say you I'm not going to spend any money on it because if we pay the engineer then I've said
well well I thought you said the 150. I assume that covered the whole conceptual design. It does up to now. Yeah. Yes. The only money we'll be spending on this until you all approve the design is design. Okay. But I be the conceptual design
the the contract with I'm pretty sure don't hold me to this that the contract with GI goes through con concept up to bidding. So we've got our design numbers in the hopper. Okay. But well if it goes to bidding
it's going to be construction. Correct. So how much more is that going to cost before we get to revisit and we've got a million. We've got a million plus whatever you decide to put in the pot from 26 money. So, you're saying we're we're gonna we're gonna go ahead and spend a million
dollars before we we approve the design? No, there won't be any more money spent on this project except for professional services out of the 150 that you've allocated for GI 150.
Correct. Okay. So that's that's suggestion number one. Suggestion number two, and let me go to a couple con uh a picture here. Um probably the biggest concept uh that
recreation board feedback from commissioners, talk around town is the want for pickle ball courts. Um we had this discussion last year. We didn't move forward with it. Um and it continues to be a major one. and pickle
ball is kind of the the number one sport that leisure activity that folks seem to want to do these days. Uh I I don't know what stopped us from last year other than uh other priorities finding a place and this type of stuff. So as we've
moved through this fiscal year where is the best place what can we do limit we don't want purch. recommending to you the best place is to create a new project called the Palmetto Palmetto Street and Palmetto
Palmetto uh Palmetto actually and second so that corridor with um the circles if you will the city owns this I'm gonna be pretty specific this is second street this is
Palmetto the city owns this property everything but the green Yeah, it's kind of an L. They own We own an open space between uh Mr. Soal's um lounge where the public works used to
have a storage facility. We knocked down the lakefront TV area, the shuffleboard courts, and the tennis courts. This strip right here is not owned by the city. It is owned by CSX. The city has tried to look into acquiring that parcel
and dealing with dealing with the railroads is more difficult than dealing with the federal government. We also think there could be some uh US issues um associated with this site. But anyway, around the site is kind of available for redevelopment. So the the
the issues become pickle ball, shuffle board, tennis and and and a concept that's been around um probably since the Dr. Marbut report um and and ways to help um homelessness, teens or
what have you is is forward path concept of providing um shelter or providing homes uh for teens. Um that concept has has been around uh um Miss Bur who who's I don't know her title director of a
forward path has worked with many communities in lake. She's been she's talked with us agnosium uh probably over the past five six years about where a place could be. We really haven't found a place that works. Um so how I would
tee this conversation off for um discussion consideration is I think these these four items um can all I think in one fashion or another fit in here in different ways potentially. Um
and so kind of the the question duour is um we have had on the deck to fix or not fix the tennis courts and the shuffleboard courts for some time. Uh up until probably two regular meetings ago, um really the shuffleboard courts were
seen as not actively used um and and not actively used by a lot of city residents um and becoming in disrepair. We have had kind of the same issue with the tennis courts as well. We had the tennis court slated for resurfacing
um probably five years ago and we got it to a bid um level to where the bid went out, the construction contract came to the city commission and the city commission rejected it. Um so let me this is this
is the recommendation that staff would provide the city commission. I think you'd need to consider whether you demolish and remove the shuffle board and the tennis courts because they're not a primary use for the region.
Um I think if you do that, you will have a small and loud pocket of resident discontent with the demolition of those courts. Um, uh, the tennis courts I think are even a smaller pocket that's directly related
to the high school. And case in point, we recently demolished the tennis courts at Susan Street without a Pete. I I I think tennis is is losing its popularity. So with the concept of losing the shuffleboard courts and the
tennis board courts, you now have this facility opened up uh for several different things. Pickle ball courts where the tennis courts go or or pickle ball courts where the old public work shelter used to be or both. Um forward
paths is a little more complicated because to make that program work the requirement was two acres. I believe the shuffleboard court complex is about 1.7 acres. So, it's not quite as big as Forward Paths is seeking, but
it's in a location that serves all the purposes. Um, so I think if you are going to put Forward Paths in this area, it really needs to go where the shuffleboard courts are and then shuffle shuffle pickle ball and tennis or
shuffle board uh in in in these areas. However, as you see, there's lots of derivatives. The next part of this recommendation is if you don't demolish pick shuffleboard and tennis, then I
think you need to invest in fixing them. Um, so it's either keep them and make them useful or get rid of them. Now, it becomes, you know, a couple of a couple of things we need to consider because now there becomes a number of derivatives on that. If we're gonna
marry uh a concept with forward pass, it needs this section, but you want to keep shuffleboard courts. You could move shuffleboard courts up here and then you could go uh to the public works and then you could come over here to the tennis courts and um you could make a combo
tennis court pickle ball where you have a facility that's lined for both. For discussion purposes, the rule of thumb is one tennis court makes two pickle ball courts. So you could marry that or you know you So there's a bunch of
different ways you can do as your manager. I'll tell you I am uh you know I like the merry concept but I also dislike the merry concept of of pickle ball and tennis. I like the merry concept because it works and it's going
to save you money and you can kind of knock two birds without one stone. as a sports enthusiast, when I go to the driving range, I don't want to play golf on the on the driving range. You know, the driving range for the driving range. So, and and same with tennis, you know, when we all use multi-purpose
facilities, they can be nice, but they're not as nice when you go out and you and you want to play pickle ball, you want to play pickle ball, and you don't want to look at tennis lines and and flip-flop. Um, I would suggest to you that your funds have the ability to give you,
for lack of better words, the Cadillac option. Um, but but then it does it comes with I understand comes with competing demands and it comes with money. So I know you're probably going to get some public input on that, but I also that's really our recommendation of
how do you want to spend that 2.5 million bucks. Let me jump ahead. it will only take a second because before you get into the discussion of these priorities I think you need to talk you also need to look um there's two other smaller
priorities and these can also so now that we got derivatives um two other major maintenance items that are eligible for DST funding because the facilities were built with DST funds we really need to change out the gymnasium floor we talked about that Monday night
the price tag on that is 200 here's a picture of it. That's a nice picture. And we also need to change out the carpet um in the library. That's 350 grand. It's a lot of carpet, a lot of weight, a lot of things to move. So, I really think we need to tackle those two things. And and the numbers add up. So,
you can get carpet, you can get gym floor, you can get pickle ball, and all that other stuff all wrapped up with what we've got. And we've got, you know, that half a million over in the general fund we can kind of pass back and forth. Um, I also wanted to talk about things that
were left this year. When you say the half million in the general fund, you're talking about if you stay with the military. Yes, you're following me. And I know everybody understand I'm speaking. Yep. I'm I I skipped over to inside, you know, inside hyperbole to keep it short.
Um, you also need to look at what didn't make it to make the cut for fiscal year 26. The first one, the historical society has vis visited you in two public hearings to up to retrofit and
upgrade and refurbish the historical museum, I think on Fifth Street or whatever. I get my numbers mixed up. Um, and that that Sixth Street that that number was a million bucks. Um, Cliff and public works, our public
works director and I we and that's a good number. That's a good budget number. Um then and then on the smaller side um uh Travis is also asked to put um some shade some canopy attractive
canopy shading over the the aquatic facility the Dabney aquatic facility um oh the library I jumped ahead. There's two shade structures that are that have fallen to the cutting room floor. The first one, let me go, let me do, let me go backwards.
Is that one um a shade structure for the pumping um at the aquatic facility kind of pretty it up. Um shade structure improvements for uh Sleepy Hollow. And then the shade structure, this goes back to Lucy's
time. Lucy, since I've been here, has as asked for shade structures at the library, the little park that we have back on the on the on the north side of the library in that little uh courtyard. Um we haven't put this up, I think, for two reasons, homeless concerns and
money. Um um Dusty has brought this to our attention as well. Um but again, so so these are kind of the the top items uh that needed to that that I wanted to show you that didn't make didn't make
the cut. Um so back to kind of the issue dour is um the where how how to tackle this Palmetto sports complex concept. Um I'll jump ahead and then you can kind of finish on that this evening depending
where you go. debt service, you know, that was that and then questions. So, really this is the one. No, I did. I hit it. And then, um, this is really kind of the last concept that you have of the evening to discuss.
Um, I'll start. I'll just have questions. Um, well, comments. I think that um forward path should be acknowledged and we should realize that this is um for young people aging out of foster care,
giving them a start in life with um expected direction as well as um preparing them to be um fit for society, meaning responsible. That's what I'm trying to say. I think that's a plus. And I really feel that location would be
more conducive because of downtown area close next to the school as well and um somewhat kind of behind the um police department. So that's also a plus um
young people being turned out on their own for the first time um trying to be responsible. I think the suggestion that was saying to combine the two um courts pick um pickle ball and tennis would be a plus. You just have to share I guess
and coordinate far as another job opportunity for somebody for um reserving the courts. Uh I think that's a good idea to give that opportunity and that's my thoughts on that one. So, I'm I'm I'm good with the concept of
forward pass, but I I I still don't think it's a good fit location. Um I I I really like the the concept of keeping the tennis and the shuffle board, resurface those and put the pickle ball behind the the TV station and make a mini little recreational complex. I'm
all good with For path. I think what the I mean, what I've read in the brochures tonight, I think it's a very worthwhile cause. I just don't think this is a good fit for for this particular location. Um, I have spoke to city manager, I'm sure, as everyone probably has. We have
two or three other locations in the city that I would be more willing to consider donating the property to them for this program. Um, and um, I think one of them was behind the resource center. Uh, one of them I think was over there in the
Tuskegee area and one of them was possibly the old Dabney swimming pool site. I mean, I'd be open to any of three of those locations for this program, but I just don't think this program going in this particular place and we're having to
readjust everything and possibly losing our shuffle board or pick or not putting pickle ball. I I I just think it's a great concept to put all three of those in one area and and put forward path I mean in one of the other locations if
that works for them. I mean I would be open to donate that property but not this particular property. This is just not a good fit for this. When you say not a good fit, meaning far as too close to the sports arenas or just Well, I think it's disrupting the
concept of what I I think we're we're trying to put together here that the city managers put together with a with a a small little recreational complex with with tennis, shuffle board, and pickle ball all right in the central area. I think this is a great little concept for a recreational area. Um, and we've
already got two of them there. All we do is resurface those and just build the pickle ball. So, I just from that standpoint, no, I don't think it's it's it's a good location to put all these tiny homes and lose one of our complexes or one of the proposed things. Uh
because I just think this is going to be a great little addition to downtown. Um this is going to bring people to the downtown area. And I think that's what I've heard this commission say for years. Their goal was to to increase the foot traffic downtown. Well, this
complex will increase the foot traffic to downtown. I Okay, I agree with that. I also think that the kids need to be around other kids. You have beacon schools there. Um I just don't see coming for all the hard
work that Ford pass put in trying to deal with um mental health and other issues with children. I don't think district one Ka Heights would be conducive to put in young people on their own in that area. Well, I'm saying this
that's taking away the whole process of this is the three pieces of property that that I was told that we possibly have that they could use. Um if we come across something in the future, I'd be open to possibly looking at that point, but I just don't think this is a a good
fit for this program. Um I just think this recreational little complex is great. I think it's going to be great for downtown to create foot traffic. Uh people can come play. They'll probably go downtown, have a drink, have lunch, dinner, whatever. Um so that that's what I'm saying. I mean, I'm I'm all good
with four path, but not at this location. Isn't it that residential areas on the side street as well as houses on the other areas? So, it's not just a wreck area. You still have a neighborhood very much contained, a really close neighborhood cuz it's like small. It's
the back of the railroad track. So just imagine that. Um you have um John's location on one end. Am I speaking right? And then you have the TV center, then you have Dixie Venetian Center, and then you have Canal. So that's conducive
for walking past for the kids cuz they won't have cars most and for being a available to get on a bus route to go wherever they are scheduled to work. Um, I I just disagree. I think it would be
perfect because I think that's more mending with with student. It's a good location to put young kids that are needing to have still some supervision, but yet and still there are young becoming young adults to be on their own. Across across the street from a bar.
What's the bar? Warehouse. The warehouse. The warehouse. Oh, yeah. Well, um Yeah. You across the street from the police station, too. Add that one, too. Well, well, having them downtown also is walking distance to potential jobs. Yeah, you echoed a lot of that and I agree with you. Um, I know CSX has been a more
amendable lately, especially with the county when it comes to trails. Can we approach them again? We we will. We will. Um, and then my next question is shuffle boards are a lot of there's a lot of courts there. I'm not a shuffleboard player, so I don't know. Do they need that big of a space?
Okay. I'm I'm asking a city manager. So, is that something? I don't know. Do they need that many courts? Two. Um, and if we can get CSX, maybe we can accommodate everything maybe in that area. I'm not in favor of the dualpurpose
um pickle ball and tennis. I think that defeats the whole purpose, but um those are my thoughts. I'll piggyback off the comment on CSX. Um I I don't want to start a hornets nest on this on CSX, but um if there if we have suspicion of
contamination, I mean, I feel like we have a duty as a city to take it head on. And um I mean, I don't want to go crazy. I might even help pay for it. I mean, that they have liability. They probably I mean, I don't I mean, but we don't even know. So, I don't want to get too bogged down there. Yeah. So, no is your answer. And I don't
think everybody who lives in that and and I multiuse is the jargon that you It's a great multiuse corridor. Um, so I don't want everybody in that multi-use corridor to think that there's contamination across the street. And typically we find stuff out like that like with like on on Main Street. So
I heard a rumbling there might be an underground storage type. I would say no. It's not the city's responsibility to fix private sector issue and and there's but there's also government plans like Brownsfield and those type of things that that we can get that lead the private sector to to
remedy contamination from from past days. So I I I do think so in that note, I think we probably need to continue talking to CSX. Um I don't think the initial phase one would be very expensive and and we're doing those things. Okay. But I also think you can
that the L that we do have is is usable. Um, but I think I think what we need to do for this fiscal year is set some priorities, even if they're unpopular, and and start moving forward uh with a plan that uses this prime property that's that that really accomplishes
many of the goals we've talked about for for really relatively not a lot of money, right? For the CSX property, Forward Paths did try to talk to CSX about purchasing that property. Uh CSX will
not let you test the property for contaminants before you purchase. Number one, this property uh according to Jerry Galbra, somebody who grew up been around a long time, had
three above ground diesel fuel tanks that obviously because the railroad tracks used to just run through there. So, you know, they won't let you test it. Uh, Ford Pass could not spend
donated money to purchase something in hopes that there's Yeah. And I was just I I don't want to get bogged down on this issue. I was trying to go somewhere with it. Um, you know, maybe talk to our city attorney. I mean, I get what I was trying to say as a as a municipality if we have knowledge of a contamination. I feel like we have a duty. So, so
to fix it, you know, to have them fix it. I have to tell you I'm squeezing a little bit here because you know we're talking we're really talking without proper information. All speculation we don't know. D is extremely good at identifying where they
suspect underground storage issues. This site has not been identified by DP. And so I think really to sum up that conversation that strip doesn't belong to us. Okay. It belongs to the railroad. working with the railroads is difficult and we have
been talking to them probably in the past nine months. Okay. Um I did not intend to get bogged down on that but I just wanted to throw that out there. I was kind of piggybacking off of Jimmy's comment. Um go ahead. Yeah. Just just to clear up also um for the audience for everybody. We we throw
Forward Pass out because I know you guys are aware of what it is, but for the public, Forward Paths is an organization that primarily deals with kids that are aging out of foster care. They're turning 18 and they're being told, "You
got to go because you're currently in a home where there's some 16-year-old foster kids and we can't have both of you in the same home." So these kids come to this program primarily with a backpack. There's no cars. There's no no
luxuries or anything. They also deal with homeless unaccompanied youth. Uh primarily I shouldn't say primarily, but many of these youths are come to them through the guidance counselors at the
the local high schools. They figure out who's out on their own and they end up with Ford Pass. Just this last last year, they were working with kids from six different high schools in the county. Okay.
There were eight seniors in their program that they turn 18, you're thrown out. Okay? They housed those kids. They worked with them. Six of them graduated from high school. One of them got their GED and one of them decided he wanted to
go it alone. So, it's not a 100% success rate, but it's an opportunity to participate in the program. You have to get a job and you have to go to school. Now, school can be Lake Sumpter or
school can be Lake Tech. They have a facility in Eustace and I would urge all of you to drive up Highway 19 to the Methodist church where the road splits in Eustace. Just behind the the church
is is their community of 10 tiny homes and it's called uh uh cottages cottages on grove grove streets right there. So it give you an idea of what it looks like. But this is only providing
opportunity for our youth that otherwise the statistics say 50% of them or more will end up in jail in two years if we do nothing. So uh I am a big advocate obviously. Uh you heard Mrs. Bur. Well,
I'm Mr. Bur. It's my wife is the executive president of uh Forward Paths. Uh and uh you know we don't receive any funding, no no money from the public. Uh we get nothing as far as money. So
there's no uh uh what conflict of interest. That's the words I'm looking for. Um so that's that's what the program is. That's what it does. And Commissioner Canel, let me just make a comment clear make clarify my comment.
What I want to make sure that I was clear in saying that um district one the areas where you named Tuskegee Beecher that's in district one in which I'm the commissioner um that area is a somewhat trouble but we are doing great strides with working
with the um police and there are improvements and when I said it's not conducive meaning that um and we're gradually getting there we're growing you can see changes people make comments we are better control um we don't have the policing that I've been requesting
and we know that story but until we're able I just don't think that would be um conducive for what this program offers. So that's the reason why I was saying not in So you're saying these areas are unsafe to live in. I didn't say they were unsafe. If I said
they're unsafe for um students fostering out of foster care, 18, 20 year old, 18 year olds to an area where there's higher crime than it is on the other side of town. Now, if you're not sure what I'm talking about, you're welcome to ride through at any point and I will
take you. I'm not saying anything. I mean, I'm I'm proud of my area, but we have a lot to grow and we are being strives. we are doing much better and with the help but I know that if you we would make that
move I think it would be taken back from what has already let me ask you a question my opinion well let me ask you a question though and like I said I I I've said before so I don't want to keep repeating myself I don't have any issue or concerns on path forward pass it sound like a very good program but
why should we give the property away to four bath and and take these people's amenities away. I mean, I'm not saying to take amenities away. I'm trying that's where they want to put it. That's why I'm trying to include it all. That was the that was the third
recommendation to combine the two. And I'm not trying to take a Why can't we just put some students those same amenities to be a part of it? Well, why can't for paths just go somewhere else? Why why do we infringe on their their amenities they've been using for years and make them readjust
and possibly and can't expand for the pickle ball for forward path? Why don't we just wait and comes up down the road? Well, I'd be more than glad to look at that site to give to forward path or maybe for path just buy a piece of property. Uh but I don't know why we
would disrupt everybody who uses that facility now to put four paths there. I'm not asking to disrupt it inclusive because this how would it not disrupt them? Hey, we're going to be respectful in the audience. The commissioners are discussing needs to be include and give them an
environment. So you think we can get forward path there? Shuffle ball courts, tennis courts, and pickle ball courts. That was an option. I I just don't think that's a good viable Okay. Well, I'll realistic option there.
I I started with uh the CSX property only because Commissioner Bur was talking about it. Um but yeah, I'm I support forward Pass. Um I I I want to support them with this venture. I know they've been looking for a site for a long time. I picked on Denise when she
built the first one in Eustace and said, "How come it's not in Leburg?" She said, "Well, I don't have a site." Um, if we can find another site, that's great. But right now, I understand this is, you know, this is her best and only option right now. Um, I'm not closing the door on any other ideas. I'm not closing the
door. Well, let me keep going. Tennis, pickle ball. I personally, I could change my mind. I could live with leaving two tennis courts, tearing out two, making four pickle ball courts. That, you know, if we need more down the road, we can add them to, you know, down the road. Um, that's just one idea. Um,
forward pass. Forward pass, I I wish we could fit them up to the top. I don't want to give up on that. Um, but push come to shove. If there were no other sites right now, I I could probably get behind them on the uh the shuffleboard site and I don't take
that lightly. Um, but I'm not quite sure. I better be careful what I say there. Um, I I want to Okay, in summary, I want to I want to accommodate Forward Pass. It's it's a great organization. They've been looking
for a home in Leburg for a long time. I want to do my best to help them. Um, and we'll just go from there. We got We got a long way to go on this one, but I want to work with them. So, it may be disruptive, if that's the word. Um, I could compromise on the tennis uh pickle
ball um shelf board. Maybe we could do, you know, a smaller amount. I mean, I guess it's not going to make people happy, but um I don't even know what it's going to cost to redo them, but um it's a big site. It's a 1.7 acre site, so I drove it yesterday. It's not going
to be cheap to redo those. Uh it's actually not a very impressive complex to be honest with you. Um okay, that's enough. I want to ask probably because we haven't put no money in it and in in Yeah, I agree. Decades. I was pretty disappointed when I drove it yesterday. But u shuffle board, I did some
research. I mean, it's coming back. I mean, it's it's becoming more and more of a popular sport. It's not just a senior sport anymore. The youth is actually getting to shuffle board also. And so, I think you need to take this in consideration before we just do away with her shuffle board or or or do away
with half our tennis courts. I mean, our high school relies on those courts. I mean, you know, we have to take these things in consideration. And again, I'm not making any light of it's just not a great location to lose our recreational facilities to put this there.
And I I do understand that and I respect that concern a lot. Um I want to make a suggestion if I could just I'm not taking away or disrupting. Why not let's consider the um Griffin Road Teen Center for um tennis courts
and shuffle board its areas um space over there. City management It's a good idea. I mean, that's area that sports complex right off of 27441. Um right at um the teen center to car
there to do that. Yeah, that could be a wreck area. No, the teen when you said that I thought I thought I thought red road. I thought resource center. The resource center would be I was thinking where the teen center is. Team Center's tough because that space is tight and on the other side of the
parking lot. But the resource center could be a good place for tennis courts, shuffleboard courts. So, it would be appropriate to put the recreational facilities there, but but not for bass there. Commissioner, you flip what I was told.
I just I suggested it because that's a sports arena already. That's the basketball. Well, no, but we're but we're not talking about he's talking about the resource centers where you got the room for not not at the not at the gym. No,
I'd like to know um how much the tennis court clarify that to her. No. Yeah. When she my thought look and I'm not if you specifically want me to advocate for you, I'll tell you what I think you should do, but I don't think that's my place. So when when when she said uh
when the commissioner said that that that area when she said teen center I went to resource center. So yeah so my suggestion was tennis and shuffleboard at the resource center off the red road which would open up pal
more with the pal the palmetto area forward paths and pickle ball. That's a concept. Well, that's why I made the point. It's it's not the resource center is not safe to put forward pass at, but it's safe
enough to put our recreational centers at. I mean, it makes no sense. Talking about 18 year olds. We're talking adults, but 18 18 actually are adults, but anyway. Well, why don't why don't we just give half a ski beach? We don't have any facilities down there.
It's not doing any recreational facilities. Give them the back half of ski beach. Um, do we know how much I don't I don't I've asked a few people. I don't know how much the tennis courts are used. Uh, I do I am aware the high schools said they needed four academy and high school use.
They do use them. Okay. And we still play tennis. I think we need to consume. Okay. I would be able to accommodate everyone if possible. So, we'll allow we'll open up it for public comments. If you state your name and address and be very mindful and
respectful of the time, you have three minutes and I will shut you off after three minutes. Thank you. My name is Rick Tolman. My address is 655 Abdullah Way. I'm in the villages. I'm here on behalf of the Leburg Shuffleboard
Club. I had a little bit here to talk about, but after hearing everything that you were saying, you were asking how much are the tennis courts used? the the shuffleboard courts were it was mentioned that they're not used very much. I'm sorry, but they're played on
twice a week, every week, all year long. In addition to that, there's many tournaments, state tournaments that come here and play. We draw people from around the state. I don't know if you're aware of the Florida Shuffle board association. Um it was started in
Florida and Florida is you know the origination of uh shuffleboard as a competitive sport and we have uh here let me get to this. The Florida Shuffleboard Association consists of seven districts. We are in
the northern district. There's currently on our schedule three state pro tournaments held right here at the Leburg facility along with three regular northern district tournaments. There's a total of 34 FSA tournaments held in the
northern district and 22 of those are played in Leburg. Not all at the Leburg Club. There's other uh there's the Hawthorne site, the Mid Florida, and the uh Holiday RV. So, some of those are played there. Um, we
were talking when you're looking at all these recreational activities for all the different youths and everything. In looking on your website, you have some incredible um facilities that you've put in. I applaud you for that. They're excellent.
And as I would agree with you, when you drive past the shuffleboard courts, it's a little bit disappointing and it hasn't been kept up. But the members, we do everything we can to beautify and we cleaned up after the hurricane and that
was all on our own. We didn't ask the city for much to do anything there. But I would I would encourage you to not forget the seniors when you're having recreational facilities. You know how
many things are out there? Seniors aren't playing very much pickle ball. There's a lot of them playing in the villages. But you know what? You know what? Most of those you you go and ask the orthopedic surgeons and doctors and hospitals, they get more patients and
more business from shuffleboard and softball. Pickle ball, I'm sorry. Pickle ball and softball, but not not from shuffle board. May I ask you one question? How many members do you have? Roughly usable. We have about
70. Okay. Okay. Thank you. And we have a number of them that are state pro and hall of fame players and all the way down to amateur and u district amateur players.
Question. Just a question. Uh you said you're from the villages. Yes. So uh in you're in one of the community development districts. Yeah. So do they build do they have shuffleboard courts there? They have shuffleboard courts all over, but the problem with the villages is they won't
build any more than four in one location. So, they can't have state tournaments in that. You need to have enough courts to play state tournaments. Do they do do they build more than four pickle balls or how does that work? Do they have um no,
they have like same guidelines? four pickle ball and then a couple of tennis courts and yeah, they just don't build a big complex. It's been talked about number of times. I haven't done it. I've only been here two years, but a number of villagers have approached them to put
in more courts so they could actually hold state tournaments there, but they didn't show any interest in that. So, you have a lot of members from the villages that come down to Leburg. There's quite a few. There's a number of uh Leburg residents. Some are seasonal
residents that are they live in the area and then they're seasonal which I'm sure you have a lot. Do you have a member directory? Pardon? Do you have a member directory? I Yes. Can you provide that to the city manager? Sure. So he can disseminate to us. Okay. And hopefully it has your addresses and things like that. Okay.
Thank you. Thank you. Amanda McCle. I'm the um Rotary president, board chair of the Center for the Arts. Um I think you have a task on your hand for both people. I see the residents of Leburg need to be their
lifestyle and unfortunately, not unfortunately, fortunately, we have a lot of um older folks that are retired here and they need places to do things as well. Ford Paths is an organization that the city of Leburg definitely needs to support. We already have pickleboard
courts at Pier Park. The high school was pro. Why can we not put the tennis court at Susan Street or one of the other complexes? And if we have all of these tournaments coming through town, that should be revenue to the city of Leburg because I'm pretty sure that the
tournaments that come to Sleepy Hollow have to pay for those facilities as well. So, I see both sides of the coin. I don't envy your position, but as a person who works with youth and our elderly, you have a a responsibility to
both. So, um, Ford Paths, they're doing great things. We sort of support them in our Rotary Club and, um, whether he's married to the president or not, she's doing great things and producing productive citizens of the for this for this this community. So, um, downtown is
good because they're able to get to places to trans, you know, get transportation. These kids have no, um, cars and firsthand knowledge at Leburg High School, we have more homeless children in that high school than you realize. So, it is a responsibility to
this commission to to help with that organization. Thank you. Are there any other public comments on this item? Yes. If if you have public comments, just form a line up here. so we can keep the keep it moving.
Hi there. I'm Bethany Burch Voscus and uh 1510 Park Drive. Live here in Leburg. I'm also on the electric commission. Um but I can I approach the map for just two seconds. There's a Oh, okay. I own a business.
Okay. Okay. Right here. Dixie. Yeah, I do on Dixie. Right here is my building. Um, and I when I come to work every day, I come down second and I come right by these pickle ball courts and I come right up tennis courts and I pull my parking lot and I park right here. And I had no intention of speaking
today, but I do see several people there twice a week. I have for over four years. And they're right, they do maintain those courts all by themselves. They're out there cleaning things up so they can get ready for their stuff. And I also see the tennis courts. I'm at my office sometimes till 10 and 11 o'clock at night. My husband will call and say,
"Are you coming home?" And I'm like, "Am thinking it's nine o'clock at night and it's 10, 11 o'clock at night and they're still playing tennis." So, they are using those. They do need to be fixed. I couldn't agree with you more. I I think Forward Paths is great. I just don't think that's a right location for them. I mean, they're right next to Beacon and
those kids don't need any drama. Um, and they're right by a bar. I mean, the warehouse is right there and that's I drive a Harley. I just paid my Harley off six months early yesterday. So, that's nothing. It's hardly people in the bars, but that's not really the best location for for kids. But, um, I I
don't get your guys' position either. I mean, there's a lot that needs to happen. And I think if they could redo the courts, that'd be great for for the folks that came. And for the the tennis, too. I mean, because they do need to be redone. They are in in bad repair and the driveways to them are yucky. But,
um, I just don't think that this is the right spot for forward paths. So, that's all. [Applause] Um I just want Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Phyis Soal Wood. I live at um 2537
Buttonwood Run in the Villages also. And um so I just wanted to mention a couple of things. Number one, when we talk about the number of members, our membership has been dropping because of the quality of the courts. Right now
we're at a low spot because the winter people aren't here. They it gets to be quite a lot. But um but I would say that we were up in the 80 and 90 of um you know senior citizens that would that would play there. And it is
not only senior citizens. I think the mayor was here last time. My grandson got up and talked and he's 15 years old. And so we have young people. we have in the middle and then we have older people also there also want to say for the um
we went out for bids and actually um the city came out and we got we we accepted or heard one of the bids and it was 22,000 for the resurfacing.
But if this is going to be an actual project, we we really want people to play. We want it to be a a facility that people come to, we not only need the resurfacing, we need shelter from the sun.
There was a a makeshift I don't know what it was, a metallic a metal roof that is uh rusted, falling apart, and only over eight quarts. So we need the uh surfacing and we need the roof in order to make this a viable
facility. And then um the third thing I wanted to talk about was the um and I just lost it. I am sorry I had three things but there were two but I think those two were the most important things we need to have. Maybe this was
it. When we have a tournament, we can have upwards of 100 people there. We use our 24 courts. So, we cannot put in a facility that has six or eight courts for, you know, just for a couple of
people to play because the whole idea is that we are one of the main district um shuffleboard courts in our northern district. We are one of the main ones that hold most of the tournaments.
Anything else? [Applause] Hello, my name is Jacob Bonning and I'm here representing Ford Pads. I'm the president of the board for Ford Pad Foundation. Um, most of the youth in our program were born here and they've lived here their
whole lives and we've been doing this for almost 13 years now. And the kids that graduate from our program stay here and they become police officers and they serve in our military and they become um welders and mechanics and valuable members of our community. But um I
wanted to talk about um the location because it was brought up that it wouldn't be a good location, but in fact it's the perfect location because of its proximity to the schools and to jobs. Um the kids obviously come with a backpack. That means they don't have a car. They
don't even have a bicycle. So, they don't have the means to get to school um to Lake Tech, to the college or the high school. A lot of the kids do go to the high school. Um if this project is located far out um
the um the resource center, it's a food desert. There's nowhere for them to eat out there. There's nowhere for them to work out there. And the whole point of our program is to teach them how to live independently. Um, and they do have to have a job and they have to be in school. They have to do both things to
be in our program. Um, there's already student housing all around there. Um, with um, Beacon College and we're not looking to take over um, the tennis courts. Um the site that that we're hoping to get well originally we were
hoping to get um was um the the top circle there with the um railroad, but because of the restrictions with the railroad, it it's not working out. We've been we worked for over a year to hopefully use that. But the shuffle board would be I think um you should
have a print out there. It would be the perfect size um to fit this community. So, um um I I I think you know m may maybe is could the shuffleboard courts be located
somewhere else? Maybe the resource center. Yes, maybe. But honestly, I don't know that it needs that much acreage. I'm not an expert in this, but I have driven the site. There's an old road that used to be behind it um between the shuffleboard courts and Dixie that's like fallen into disrepair,
but it's empty acreage and it's not being used. So, that's all I have to say. Thank you. I appreciate your support. Robert Alderman, 1113 Beach Street, Leburg, Florida. as a citizen of Leburg
all my life. Um I have played over there's tennis court before and I think that would probably be a bad location for the youth but I came up here to suggest another location that I
see is vacant and that is over where I see you're going to be there's going to be the villas at what is that where Lee school used to be. I mean, I don't know. I'm just making a suggestion. But on the other side of that, that's privately owned and trading for
over a million dollar last. Is it something that Leburg could talk to the owners and maybe be considered? There's an approved apartment complex that we're just waiting for them to start break. Yeah. But I'm saying I see that, but on the back side there's an empty space. It's taking the whole the whole the whole square.
Yeah. Anyway, I just want to make suggestion because I saw that and just, you know, I think that's close enough for to accommodate what you're trying to do. Thank you. [Applause] Hi, my name is Sharon Wild. I live in
347 Hawthorne Boulevard. I moved to here uh Leburg 2 and a half years ago. I never knew what a shuffleboard court was. and we bought our home in Hawthorne at Leburg and they toured us and said these are worldclass shovelboard courts
and I said whoopde-doo. I have since started playing it is an activity that the seniors just absolutely love. It has to be introduced. It has to be brought back. Pickle ball has people just think that's more exciting. But as you get older,
these people who are playing pickle ball are not going to be able to play it anymore. and you're taking away the courts that they're going to be able to move to because they're active people. They want to stay active. So, I think that's a good point to think about is down the road. Don't take the courts
away. Now, you were talking about moving the courts. Okay. You can resurface our courts. You can fix up our complex for around $30 $35,000 probably roughly. You move us and put in new courts, it's going to be over $100,000 or more.
That makes no sense. Okay. I love the idea of having a big nice complex. I think it's going to look great. I think it's a an added feature for people coming into the city of Leburg to see Venetian Gardens and then drive across the street and see this beautiful
complex that you guys are thinking about adding to the city. I think that's a valued added thing. Another thing I want to mention is the fact that between Mid Florida Hawthorne and the Leburg, we bring in 1,500 people a season. That is
from October until March. They come and play tournaments. Those people buy food, they buy gas, they visit the downtown area, they buy homes in the community. So, I think that just because you drive by there and only see 30 or 40 of us
playing, you don't take the big picture in there and how much money shuffleboard brings into the area. So, that's all I wanted to say. Thank you. My name is Denise Bur. My address is 401
Sunnyside Drive, Leburg, Florida 34748. I'm the executive director at Forward Paths. We have worked and take care of Lake County's homeless youth for the last 12 years, housing them for 11. Um, we also, um, have hired our own mental
health counselor that works part-time, our financial stabil stability, um, advisor and three full-time, um, case managers that work with our youth. And this past year, we had two young people enter our military who will be
stationed in Japan from Leburg High School. that is um and 18 of our youth completed either a GED or a youth program which include an LPN and an AS degree. So um we're proud of our youth
and our success. We ended up building in Eustace first because the First United Methodist Church of Eustace donated two acres. Um it was a rough go at first and everybody's like is this the right location? But I've just been made aware of Eustace nominating us for an award.
So our hard work has uh persevered and our complex is beautiful and we're being successful there. We have 24 youth. Um we work um from the First United Methodist Church of Eustace. So we're coming to you with a proven concept.
What I found and what I was really surprised of is how our youth became an asset to the community because they're filling those beginning jobs. And at one of our lunches, I um was being kind of sarcastic and said, "You might want to be nice to our youth." Um because we put
out quite a few CNAs and they might be taking care of you one day. And it happened chance a few weeks later that my father-in-law entered the hospital and the young girl asked, "Do you belong to Miss Denise?" And they're like, "Yes, she's our daughter-in-law." And she's
like, "I'm one of their I'm one of her youth." So we we have the skills. We're building them. And when they're better, we're better. The statistics on these kids say they will become incarcerated. They will become pregnant. They will
die. and we're trying to change that, but we have to have a place and we've looked for the last 10 years. When this got brought up, I kind of it was very recent and not quite expecting it. So, I toured it. I I like looked and what was
going on around that and it's like our kids have to be accessible to the school. About a third of our kids come from Leburg. Out of all the kids I've worked with, a third of them come from Leburg. It's time that we address it. that we're doing our very best, but we need the
city to work with us. If there has to be some negotiation, but we would really like to build the community and repeat what we did in Eustace. If anybody here has any questions, it's about priorities. You're talking about paying a sport. This is life for these kids.
These kids are coming from homes where their parents are deceased, where they're aging out of foster care. Have you ever thought about what it's like to go rent something when we don't have affordable housing in Lake County? How do you buy a car? How do you get a job?
How do you get clothes for a car? How do you get to a doctor or know how that's that's what we're talking about? I'll handle it. Handle it. Thank you. The next person, please. Hi, I'm Lauren Richie and I'm a board
member with Forward Pass and have been for several years. Um, I I primarily want to ask a question. I didn't think this was an eitheror situation, but that's kind of how it's playing out
here. I didn't think that um if we ended up in that spot then shuffle board gets thrown out of Leburg totally. Is that the case or I mean that's a decision for the commission to I'm sorry. Could you speak up?
That's a decision for the commission to decide whether it h continues or it doesn't. That's why we're having these discussions. So there's a chance they could lose all their courts. There is a chance, but obviously we don't want to see that happen.
Okay. Um, I would like to encourage you to keep the courts for them, but not in this spot. And it's not because I don't think it's appropriate. It's because uh it's more appropriate
for the lives of these young people. This is an excellent spot for us. It is close to everything. Kids are required to get jobs. They're not It's not an option and they have no transportation.
So, they are close to all kinds of stuff in that spot where they can work. And we've had lots of difficulties in that area. Now, I also happen to know that when you say it's not appropriate,
that's kind of code words, folks. It is. It's code words for we don't want homeless people where the rest of our folks can see them. And the case is when we give them home, they're not homeless. And there are rules to be followed. And
we do that. And we don't have the cops out there every two minutes in Leburg or in uh Eustace. And I can't see that that would happen in Leburg either. Um, these are citizens who have
really been dealt the worst, the absolute worst hand of cards you can imagine. And I think when it comes to deciding who gets to use a piece of property, respectfully, I do think that it's
important for seniors to have a place. But when I compare a game to kids who are sleeping in the back of their car, I mean, you know, we have
pregnant girls who come to us who are sleeping in the backseat of their car. If I've got to make a choice, I can tell you where my choice is going to land. And also I'd just like to add that if
anybody would like to come see what we do in uses, I would personally take you through and be happy to show you around. Commissioner Bur has offered that as well. Anybody in the shuffle system too. Thank you. Thank you. Uh I just want to start out with
shuffle board name and address please. Sorry, Deborah Lizden, 176 South Lake Drive in Mid Florida Lakes. Want to start out by saying this is more than a game. There are people that have lost their husbands and wives. This is where they
go for a community. We all take care of each other. It's way more than just a game. That kind of offends me. None of us want these kids on the streets. All of us want them helped. We just don't want to be the disposable community to
have that happen. Um, we've lived our lives. We've paid our taxes. We've been in the service. We've been policemen. We've done it all. This is where we want to go to final, you know, for the final part of our life. We feel for these
kids. We just are getting really tired of being the disposable people. And we hope that you look for another place for these kids. We do care about them. And again, this is more than just a game to these people. This is their life. A lot
of them. Just keep that in mind. No one's implying that you're the disposable people. So, just want to put that on the record. Um, Steve Clark, uh, 109 South Lake Drive in Leburg. Um, I I moved down to
Florida three years ago and uh, a lot of it because I I learned that my COPD had worsened to the point where all the kayaking, rock climbing, absolutely everything that I loved was no longer a
possibility. And you can probably imagine that a little bit of depression crept in there. And then I found shuffleboard. Uh, it's an awesome sport. In the last three years, I've gone from a amateur to a district. This year, I'm starting as a pro and I'm also a
certified director for tournaments. One thing that you guys don't have that you'll need to make a an informed decision on what to do with courts, how you can relocate or build somewhere else is the district and and FSA requires
for us to to be able to host tournaments. Uh and and Leburg is a proheavy club. They have international champions, Hall of Famers, red jackets, white jackets, some of the best players in the world.
Uh, in order to host tournaments, we have to have 16 playable courts. There are 24 now. I'm not saying we want to get rid of those, but no less than 16 courts in order to host a pro tournament in Florida. uh amateur clubs uh can have
12 playable courts, but I I think that the the number you were quoted as a a career uh educator and a licensed contractor before I I came down here, uh you're probably talking 250k easy to buy
to build a shuffleboard complex to today's codes. uh what you've got out there off Pomemetto Street wasn't built to any kind of code. Uh it would cost you a whole lot more to build back than it would to repair, resurface, and fix
it up. But but do keep in mind that we need at least 16 courts to be able to do anything or our tournament days are over and that would be a crying shame. Uh I love the sport. I couldn't be more supportive of forward paths uh as an
educator. Those kids do need some help. I'm hoping that we can both continue to coexist and each find the solution that we need to to get everybody taken care of and I appreciate your consideration. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir.
My name is Alan Donsfield. I live at 3409 Nursery Place in the Villages. I want to first thank Commissioner Connell for his support. We greatly appreciate that. But I am the Hall of Famer that they've
been talking about. And sitting in the crowd here, I notice there's some chuckling and all going on because people don't understand what this game's all about. I spent five to six days a week for 10 to 12 years to
become the number one player in the world. I played all over this state of Florida, North Carolina, and so on. It's not a It's not a joke. This is a very serious game. We take it very
seriously. One day, the younger generation's going to grow older, too. And they may be looking for some to get into. Shuffleboard's it. You're not going to play softball anymore. Football, pickle ball. You're all going to be
wearing knee braces. And the therapists love you. your return customers. We have players coming down from Canada. These people are all Hall of Famers. They take the game very seriously as
well. Betar and Zephr Hills fully enclosed. I call it the Taj Mahal of the game. Fully enclosed 24 courts. They're taking care of their people.
Zepper Hills itself is owned by the membership itself. The members own all the property. They take care of the facility themselves. The Hall of Fame is in Sebring for the FSA Hall of Fame. The National
Hall of Fame is at Clearwater. They've got 52 courts, 26 fully enclosed. We can go on and carry on about talking about the same things over and over again, but until you've actually got out there
and played the game and understand it's a bit more than just shoving a disc down a court and hope you score an eight or a seven or whatever. That's not the game. There's more strategy in this game than
anything I've ever been involved in before. I've been in competitive shooting. Uh I've got invitations try out for the United States shooting team shooting international ski. Uh I've played a lot of ball. I golf
regularly and I play at a very very high level. But this game requires strategy, lot of thinking. You got to use your head. It's a thinking game first. Thank you for your time.
Good evening, commissioners. My name is Patrick Thomas. I'm one of the board members at Ford Pass. Um, your address for the record, sir. 5020 Griffin View Drive. Thank you. Um, I think that since I've sat for many
years in the same kind of seat that Mr. minor is in that I'm used to juggling the the the needs of the community and I think all of those needs are worthwhile and as Mr. Miner pointed out almost all of them can potentially be accumulated
with good design in this area of property. However, and obviously there's one need that that I'm most concerned about. But one uh interesting piece of information you may not be aware of as you try to figure out
how to meet the space needs that are up there is that one of the things that's mentioned is the high school's need for the tennis courts. The high school actually has over three acres of perfectly empty
property across from the nursing home at the rear of their property. It seems to me that if that needs needs to be met that there's a great opportunity there for the school board to furnish the land and to partner with the city for the construction of the
courts. Fortunately, since Ford Pass is the one of those four things that won't cost the city a penny, it seems to me that highquality facilities in the other three categories can be constructed within the amount of money you're looking at there. Thank you.
All right. Are there any other public comments? All right, we'll close public comments and we'll take it back to the board. I think between the discussion we have here and the public comments, I think Al has some homework. Um, do we want to give him any direction or do you need direction right
now, Al, or what? I mean, I guess direction to do what? Budget numbers, different things like that. Well, there is a budget number of there of $1 million for We don't know what any of the refurbberation cost will be or anything like that. So, is that the direction we're going to
go with? Why we're having a discussion. So, so I would like to uh make a motion that we do a quick clean deed on that. You can't make a motion at this. But if you want to direct that direct
Well, I Well, if we're make we're making motions, I'm not done speaking then. Yeah. There's no motions. There's direction. Okay. Well, then I'd like to I'm sorry I interrupt you. I'd like to add a few things before somebody makes a direction. Couple things. Um there was several
statements made um saying that basically it this is a choice between shuffle ball or housing um youth. I I I don't see it that way. Th this
recreational complex, the shovelboard court has been there since the 70s. This is not a new concept. It's not like this was this is a raw piece of property and we're trying to make a decision here whether we're going to put shovel ball courts on it or we're going to put many
houses on there. That that's not the choice here. It's not raw property. It's been shovel ball courts there since the 70s. So, I don't see there's a choice being made between well, don't choose a game over life safety or what have you. That's that's not the case. I think that
was overplayed. Um the the other several things that came up was it sounds like to me with with some improvements into our our courts, we have a real possibility to have host some quite a few tournaments here. And I've sat here for years and had disagreements with the
commission on spending money on recreational stuff, but the the the concept was with the consensus of the commission was it was money well spent back into recreation because you're bringing people to the city and therefore they're going to be spending
money. Well, if that's the case, that was the whole argument made with Susan Street. The $11 million we're putting in Susan Street, I will assure you 95% of the people that going to use this major complex at Susan Street are not residents of Leburg. We're bringing them
to Leburg. That was the whole concept. Well, this is the same deal. I've heard, well, most of these people used are not from Leburg. Well, isn't that what we want? Isn't that what I've heard from this commission for years? That these recreational complexes are used as a
motivator to bring people to the city to to to visit our restaurants, our gas stations, convenience stores, hotels, what have you. And I mean, with with some money spent back in, I mean, we could be hosting major shuffleboard tournaments here.
And it, like I said, it's bringing people to the city. So again, I think the program's great, just not at this location. It's not a choice between shuffleboard or this. Shuffleboard's been there for 50 years.
It's It's not just a piece of property. We're deciding, okay, flipping a coin. We're going to put shovelboard courts here. We're going to put this housing complex. The shovel court's already there. That's all I have to say. I want to hear forward past they've been looking for a home for 10 years and you
know if this is their site I mean you yeah I'm going to give it serious consideration um as far as shuffle board um you know the compromise may be you know not no one's like this in the room but we may maybe we build you know a smaller amount somewhere you know maybe
we don't have enough for tournaments but we have enough for people to enjoy the sport. Um, I heard about some of these other facilities. I'm not even sure we can compete with some of those. Um, but um, yeah, that may be the compromise right there. We provide shelf board course, but maybe we just not provide
enough uh, for tournaments and I'm sorry about that. Any other comments? Now, as I said before, you know, before, I would like to see us deed the property over to Forward Paths. I'd like to see that facility built there. Uh, I do want
to remind everybody, you know, we talk about uh people attending our downtown, coming to our downtown. When the shuffleboard courts are used, they're used from 6:30, 7 o'clock in the
morning till 8 10. I mean, do they does anything last in the evening at times? Well, I mean, I don't see people down there after 10:00 in the morning very much. So So you're looking at a facility that
brings people in from 6 to 10 in the morning. Does that benefit your downtown? No, we're under commissioned comments. No public comments at this time. I apologize, but we're we're having discussion. I apologize. I just That's Well, we're not going to have outbursts
from the audience. Thank you. It may not benefit the downtown. Excuse me, Jimmy. Go ahead. I thought you were done. These kids are going to be living there. They're going to be going to your downtown. You're talking about 20 people that could be employed
downtown that can be spending money downtown every day. Your point was you get twice a week you have things. You've got 70 people twice a week coming to Leburg. That's what you guys said. I'm
I'm just using your numbers. 70 people twice a week versus 20 people every day. Just do the math. Well, I mean, again, I I don't know this is a dollar and cents question. Um, it's
the facility's been there forever. Would would we be having this? Would we even having this conversation if the small house people here, the the forward if if they wanted us to abandon and lose
two ball fields at Sleepy Hollow so they could put it there. They decided this is the location we want. Well, no, we wouldn't. So, why are we having the conversation here just because this is a location they say they want? Well, we already have a use for this location and
it's been that way since the 70s. I I don't know why just because they deem this is location they got to have that we have to completely change gears for something been going on for 50 years in this location. I can't believe we're actually having this conversation that's going on this long.
They need to find a different location and I will support it just not here in Yes. I mean, well, Jim, Commissioner Bur cannot make a motion tonight, but he can on Monday if he if he chooses in in a normal in a
city commission meeting. What are the time constraints that we're talking now far as for past having a location and things? So I don't know there there is this is just there is no time constraint currently
forward paths has about 40 kids in housing. Okay that's in Eustace they've got 20 properties they own so they've got 20 some odd kids in rental properties in the Leburg area. So, you know, the
quicker that they find a home, the faster they can move forward, the faster that they can begin spending, you know, realizing equity instead of paying rent. And what is the time frame that the um if we were to resurface the
courts or whatever? Because that was just presented two not even a month ago, two meetings ago about the idea of that was just suggested that was what was needed. So, is there a time frame with that? All this is being discussed for a budget, right? This is all before I go in there. But that's what I
thought. I just want to make sure. What was I just want to My point I'm trying to get to is that um we're not at a po place tonight. So, we need to think this through even further. So, I don't know what else to suggest, but
um I guess Jimmy had some direction he wants to go. I just listen. But I'll just make it my comment to say um we've heard both sides. We've heard the opinions of all um the importance. We've we've waited and everyone has stated what they felt was important and myself
as well. I'm not discrediting the sports and the enthusiasm that the um players have. However, we do need to come to a decision, but we won't do it tonight. So, I mean, unless we have direction.
What's the zoning now with this piece of property? I think it's downtown. Yeah, the central business district. Would it go that far out? I think so. I That's off the top of my head. Which would accommodate anything we're talking about? Yeah. If not, it would just be what? Public facility code. There's a code for
city property. I think it's PF. It would be utility. I think it's whatever. Public public. Yeah, public facility PF. That's what it is. All right. So, this is just a discussion and we can bring this up at another city
commission meeting if you guys want to add that to the agenda. Any other any other budget? That's all we have for you this evening. Yeah. And you know during if it's my public comment Monday night, it'll be
Monday night is is when I'll be bringing it up. [Music] Does it have to be put on the agenda? He he can make a motion. He it he can make a motion without it being on the agenda. He can bring it up in public comments and make a motion. Correct.
Each of you have petitioned me one time or another to put something on the agenda, a resolution, a question. You know, Commissioner Canel spoke to me directly without going to the commission and asking me to put a moratorum on the agenda. If Commissioner Bur wants to get with me and put a quick claim deed on
the agenda, I would do that. I will tell you if if if if if Commissioner Bur saw me outside the hall and said put a quick claim on the deed for the agenda Monday, I would tell him ain't going to happen because I don't have the time. So I I it's maybe a little bit of great line. I think I play
pretty loose with you guys and taking singular direction uh when you ask for something that I need done that you need done that I think within my authority I get it done. if it's something that needs collective uh decision making individually. You've asked me, I put it
on the agenda. So, it seems that Commissioner Bur is going to be asking us to consider a quick claim deed sooner rather than later. So, it's imminent. The time frame for getting the budget together is, you know, we've got the rest of July and into August. And again,
pieces will come together. So, I'll get you some more budget numbers. Um, if you want, if you're asking or giving a direction to me to come up with some concepts, we can do that. So, um, I I I I think you misunderstood my question. I was just curious if he had had it on the
agenda or if he had the right to bring it up uh in public. I think everybody knows where Commissioner Bur is angling. So, and I think I answered that pretty directly and I think he can bring it up in roll call if he chooses. Okay, that was my question. I'm sorry. Yeah. So with that, uh, I appreciate all
the dialogue. I know we might not always agree, but we always we all have the best interest for the city at heart. And, um, the next meeting will be Monday for the city commission meeting at 5:30. If there's nothing else, we'll take a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Meetings
adjourned.