Yes. >> Okay. Uh having passed 6:30, we are going to open the planning board meeting >> Thursday, May 14th, 2026. Um can we stand? Do we have we don't have
>> I just noticed you can't see me on the camera's not even looking. I don't want to see here. Come sit down. >> No, I'm gonna stay here. >> No, no, no. Just leave it to the end.
>> Put me in with the pack. Look. See, you can see. That's probably a good thing. Actually, the first item on the agenda is uh we recently had elections. I would like to welcome Margo
Tunstein to a uh start a five-year term. >> A two-year term. You're right. >> Bartlett has been reelected to a fiveyear term. Um the next uh thing is board elections.
Um, I would like to put myself forward uh for chairman uh for one more year. >> I would like Jeff to stay on as chair for another year. We've had a very difficult
um project in front of us and Jeff has done a wonderful job for the past few years navigating this and it makes sense for him to finish what he started. I would nominate Jeff as chair going Second.
>> Uh, can we have a vote? >> You got to say all those in favor say I. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you. Uh, vice chair, I would like to um keep um our current vice chair. He's
done an excellent job. Uh he's extremely organized where I sometimes am not. Um, do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I.
>> I. >> When we come to work, um, >> usually we stick the new girl with I mean the new person with it. >> We provide an honor to the new person. >> That's right. >> No. No. You don't get it. No.
And and actually since Bartlett has 5 million appointments committees that he's on, >> would you be willing to give up your clerkship for Marco? >> There's basically >> Well, I was going to ask what does the clerkship entail?
>> It doesn't. >> It's from a bygon era. trusting staff enough to um sign what we put in front of you >> and let letting us know how much review time you want to do that.
>> Okay. >> She calls up >> there. We used to have a stand. >> So, can we uh can we appoint uh can I hear um everyone in favor of Marggo
Bloomstein as clerk? Uh say I >> I uh the next thing is the CBC. We have a a dedicated appointment to that. I'm currently doing that. I very much enjoy doing that and I would like to keep doing that. Um, do we have any
uh objection? >> No. >> Uh, all in favor of uh Jeff Yates for CPC say I. I. >> Okay. Uh, it now being 6:35, we're going
to go to court business. Uh, does anyone have any comments on the minutes of uh April 2026? No. Do uh that being said, um I make a motion to approve the minutes of April
30th, 2026. >> All in favor? >> I public input. Is there anyone here to uh in at the meeting who would like to speak to a matter that is not part of
subsequent hearings that we're going today? If not, uh on we have a few minutes before the continued public hearing. King Street Common 550, uh Town Green. Um
>> matter just came up. >> Oh, just came up. Okay. >> Um so we have the annual letter from accounting department um asking how uh asking the board to vote on how they would like um signatures done for payroll and for bills. Um so payroll
it's done by um department head into the system and then bills right now we have Jeff side bills chairside bills >> these bills are basically peer review reimbursements >> most of the bills are
>> I'd like to continue the practice having the chair sign bills have them available for the board to review at their leisure but not necessarily everybody >> that's actually a good point because when they're presented to me I pass them down the line.
So you have some >> So you guys you guys take a look at these and then pass them back and I'll >> Yeah. And and actually the county department um it works better for them if they have a vote on that. So >> So uh may I make a motion to approve
Jeff Gates to sign bills and payroll? Second. >> All in favor? It's a lot of power. Um, I was just asking Cooper about we had uh looked at uh
future board meetings. Has everyone had a chance to at least look at through the summer? Um, and I'm and I'm really talking about the regular planning board meetings that
extra meetings will have to, you know, work around people's schedules. Um, was there anyone that had a conflict or um that we needed to take into account? >> Was this Can you just review? I've got
down June 4th, July 9th, August 6th. >> 6 September 3rd. >> I don't have any conflicts that I haven't told her about yet. >> Well, that I I had to do that, too. Yeah. But I at least we can clear those
dates. Yeah. And I sent Cooper I think one of the one of the additional meetings. I had one conflict. Okay. >> So, um, >> thank you. It's very helpful that >> um, we
we don't really know at this point about extract, but we are here to move things along if we can. Um, anything else we have like a minute to
>> um, one thing that we added to the cover page, it wasn't on the agenda was appointment to magic representative. >> So, thank you. >> It's Cooper. >> Cooper. Okay. >> He's I'm happy to continue, but I just wanted to
>> officially do we need to vote on it or >> just you want us to You just >> How about this? I make a motion to appoint Cooper to be our magic representative.
>> Second. >> All in favor? I >> Congratulations, Cooper. Um, okay. So 6:40 we're continuing the public hearing for the King Street Common Storm water
review and site plan of the town. Um, we have here to talk today about the latest. >> I don't think the Zoom is connected here, but I can pull up the presentation. >> Can we get the movie setting to the
movie setting or the lights? >> Just touch the badge. Yeah, I think it says cinema and it'll lower the lights. >> That was one of the Thank you. Um, my name is Joe Fichello. I'm a senior landscape architect at
Halverson County Bond. Uh, we are the uh landscape architect consultant uh for this project uh under also a resident at Buffalo. Um and so tonight we're going to go through just some some slides that uh
that are uh our response to some of the questions clarifications needed from the last meeting uh where we presented town green. Next slide. So just to refresh everybody's memory, here's the the town green. This is what
we presented last time. Uh next slide. And one of the requests was that we overlay uh where the title house is in relation to the town green essentially the project as a whole to um in order to better understand the uh relationship of
the town common where it is now tunnel house we can all sort of visualize that and get a better understanding as to where that town green uh will be there. So that's what we're looking at here. Can I ask are those trees on the left
side of the uh screen part of the plan? Is that what you're proposing? >> I know it's not part of the >> on the left side of the tunnel house. >> Yeah. On >> No. So So that's that's um No, not that
has been designed yet where the parking lot is. >> Okay. The place, >> right? Place. >> So there's no you there's nothing you can tell us about what's going to go there. Not right now because we haven't we haven't looked at it yet. >> What's in the building that's under the name Tuttle House? Is that defined?
>> The placeholder as well. Yeah, but we we intend to come back to the ward once we have a plan for that. >> Okay. I'm just asking because early on the town green went around the tunnel house and it was wider at the street. I think that would be
beneficial depending on what you guys do at the at the far side there. Our intention is to come before well preview preview in the next few weeks what we intend to do with the tuttle on other pieces as well as soon as possible. >> That's after this is approved. So, >> yep. >> I'm just
>> understood. >> While while we do have that up um that parking lot is totally inappropriate. >> Yeah, apologies. That should be grayed
out. It's just it's just a placeholder that that's really >> I'm just saying that's >> if you presented something like this. >> Okay. >> Those are actually the other buildings that you own now, right? >> Yes. It's more the more recent acquisition. So there's nothing planned
there at this moment. So someone just took the liberty to make a parking lot for them. So but I but I appreciate thought. Next time we will not we try to avoid showing other things like this because we don't want to confuse anyone. Thank you.
Sorry. >> So, and then one more before we leave the Tuttle House. >> We um first of all, when we're talking of the Tuttle House, I think we can talk about the old part of the Tuttle House. The
back part of the tunnel house was built as a conference center and isn't necessarily part of the historic concern about it. Second thing is I think we can and we have to talk about
this as a board but make a condition that the tuttle house does not move from this site. Um and that if it is moved as part of the town green, once again we have to talk about this among ourselves, but if it is uh it will be moved as part
of the construction of the town green, we need some place for it to go so that it isn't just lost in a sauce. Understood. Yeah. Understood. And I agree that first of all, the tunnel house was moved
originally when they developed it in the first place. And as Jeff said, the back of it was just added on by by digital way back when. And the only part of it of significance is really that front piece. >> And I believe earlier this year we toured with some of the historic
commission members through the property as well. That's good insight. I don't know the building as well. So um good good to understand that part. Is there an opportunity like rather than kind of moving it around as like this thing that we have to work around to build it in more so that the town green speaks to
it? Uh because I mean it's it's obviously like literally and figuratively this wonderful representation history >> there. I know that there's grading issues, not issues, but you know, again, we're sort of have I think it's like six feet in the back, higher in the front
for the proposed condition, right? And so, you know, we can't really kind of build around. >> Can I Sorry. Can I just jump in? Sorry. So, our intention is to to move the tunnel house, keep it on site, and integrate it into the property and the project and the town in a in a very
deliberate way, not have it be in some back corner or whatever else. So, we're working through that and looking to come before the board as soon as possible. It'll be really one of the next phases that we we we speak to as part of the holistic process. But, I feel like that I think we're going to be you're going
to be happy with what we're trying to do to make it feel intentional, not forgotten as part of everything else. As Joe was sort of getting to, it's the current location right now really inhibits our ability to be successful with the town green and these other pieces that we're trying to create here. So, um, because because of the
topography, the way it's sunk in right now and the way it integrates, but I think we're we're excited to show you what we're going to do with it because some of it's based on feedback we've gotten from the board already and some of these um, you know, comments that have been made in the past. Um, so we're trying to be responsive to that. Um, so
I just maybe I think we'll let you guys talk about how you want to address it tonight, but there's definitely um, I think we're aligned to high level what you're talking about, Jeff, too. >> Okay. And then Margot, can I invite you to to address your concern about the
actual name of the town? >> Yeah. Um, yes. Uh so I think based on both input that we've heard anecdotally from people in the town and um I don't know I it's sort of just like messaging
in general to call it the town green when we have the town common I think at um at a minimum feels confusing um because they they compete
in terms of purpose and um what it has historically represented in a New England community. And I think to go beyond that, it feels arrogant to call a new designed thing,
the town green, something that implies like this convenial community space. And we have that. And I think if you can more clearly delineate what is the purpose, what has historically been the purpose of our town common and how is it
used today and what will be the purpose of this which ostensively sounds like it's maybe more social. There's more like um opportunities around it for like hanging out and grabbing food from different restaurants and coffee shops and whatnot. Um maybe there'll be movies on there or like bands or we talked last
time about like a um like maybe a farmers market. I think if you can more clearly delineate that difference that will hopefully give a better name for it so that as we're talking about it, as you're talking about it in the community, hopefully as we're kind of
like socializing this idea, people can grab onto it for its distinct value rather than something that we're like, we've already got one of those. What are you doing with that, you know? >> Yeah, I would uh I would love to get your thoughts further on that if you have any ideas for a name. I mean truly
this is a placeholder. So I um try not to get upset by thinking we were being arrogant about it. Certainly we weren't like >> you call this something. I mean the whole thing something like the point is the point now. Are you going to name this? >> I mean our current placeholder for now is is King Street is uh is truly calling
it King Street with with a logo. It's is really capturing everything. But you know it's there's nothing written in stone yet. I think that that we've given some thought to Mark. the town green streets. We're trying to think of ideas on um other elements of this. Um we have really not we had to call it something
for the sake of us talking about it and it got landed on the town green. So >> and I know that often times placeholder nomenclature in a prototype becomes the final thing. >> It can. No, it's it's fair. It's fair. It's a fair point. So I I'm glad you said something. We I I I we would
welcome feedback from the board and the community if there's ideas um that mean something. It's probably an opportunity for like more research on like the history, some participatory design. >> Nothing to come from us, but other than to say >> may maybe just changing the placeholder
to King Street comment. >> Sure. >> You know, >> is that at least that distinguishes it from the town comment? >> Yep. and um in the development >> one of one of the things that comes up is you know it would be a way of
reaching out to the community to invite suggestions as long as we don't end up with Bodie McBo face >> but classic you know >> well I think it also has to we can get into this and this is uh and I we are working on a website for this that we
can integrate in that and maybe the town can help us share it through through the website of the town so we can more eyeballs on it. Um, we would be up for that for sure. I mean, to your point though, Jeeoff, I think it's got to be something that people know that it is what it is, right? Whether it's it's common or parkway or park or something
or, you know, with another identifier on top of it. But I but I hear you, Marggo, on this idea of what can it be that's complimentary. I think that's uh it's good feedback. >> And just to just to add to that, I think, you know, they're not going to call it phase one retail. Right.
So what I mean by that is the signal for the time being like you're saying even just for like issue like submitting for permitting or all those sorts of things. So >> obvious right and and you know and I think that
yeah we'll develop something space but you know that's the way we've been thinking about it is the green within the larger project. for the time being until we can get something better that fits.
>> Okay, we've interrupted you now. >> Um, okay. So then the next uh this is in response to the to the uh question about access uh into the site. And so all these blue these blue lines represent uh
either 2% walks or walks that are less than 5%. So so all accessible. Um, and so you can see up on that left side of of the now I'm going to be conscious about color green. Uh, the beautiful green space. Um, that's the main
entrance and if you're coming from from the west and it's a sloped walk that also kind of leads into our lower kind of front lawn. Uh, and then you can continue north and of course keep kind of heading heading right into the uh, pedestrian walkway and and the uh,
retail shops in that direction. And of course, you can keep having more if you're coming in between building uh 1,200 and 1400, you know, and you you can park uh you can see that the the parking area right on King Street upper
right. There's some accessible spots there that then kind of lead into either towards the the green or um within the U retail shop zone there in the pedestrian walkway. Um, I just want to note too that uh at
the green at the King Street side that uh the right side there where we do have stairs that lower green or the or the front uh lawn that we have there there is no access from that edge. So in other words, all the access is sort of up up
and around because we have uh a wall there uh that needs to take up grade and that's access. >> I'm sorry. Do you mind going back to that? Could you just explain that again?
You said there's no access from King Street there. >> There is access there. I'm just in in terms of that lower space, >> okay, >> of the of the the green. Um, that is the main, you know, everybody has the same entry into that lower space.
>> What if somebody's pushing a stroller or >> they go that's the accessible block. Thank you. If you can go up, they go and in. >> Okay. So there's only, you know, there are sort of monumental stairs there, but those are more sort of are trying to create an edge or zone there for hang
out for circulation reasons to get into that lower uh lawn or the front lawn. That's where everybody wants to get in. Uh and then the uh the item of trying to reuse granite uh on the site. I think that's that's a great idea and that's
something that we are going to cons doesn't look like our squares are on that plan. Um so on the plan there um we did have highlighted areas and I somehow >> I'm not actually sharing this.
>> Oh, okay. Um, so I can describe it. Um, so if we look at our plan, so if we look at the at the upper lawn just in front of the the back porch, we have the three trees on either side there. Uh, within that zone there, we're
identified those as areas that uh we think it's we can incorporate uh stone that's existing on site for use. And then if we look down uh on the the front lawn there close to King Street, um there's some fanted areas just behind
the per structure that we can incorporate them and also just along that kind of entry zone we were talking about in. Um so in other words, we think it's a great idea. highlighted some areas that we feel being incorporated
and seamlessly kind of enhance and be a part of the project and speak about the history of the site. So the images on the right are not we're not saying that that's what anything look like. It's just to illustrate how previous projects how we've integrated
the used material that's been on on site uh existing to try to kind of keep that continuity of use and industry. the TV that's a different that's language I was talking about where you have the
very >> technology. So that's that and then uh that's what we have just in closing kind of oh you go back we did add comment on um add trees uh to the sort of that mid mid
lawn area on the on the right side >> bouquet bouquet of trees >> yes a bouquet of trees uh and you know I think that's going to be actually really it's a way to sort of give a little bit green a little sort of vertical green there but You know, it's certainly in
keeping with our desire to have this space kind of really as keep that as a nice kind of flexible zone from the paving to the to the middle uh loan area and then also kind of to uh that's what we have in response to
um so I'm happy to know about the term of bouquet of trees was talking about grow a bouquet is I think pretty interesting. >> Is there any pear cultivar that you could come up with? I mean the calorie
pears have sort of killed everything. >> Yeah, >> we could look into it. Not that I don't have coffee. >> Yeah, I mean just look into it and see if there's something that could >> hearken. I mean, traditionally pears aren't pretty trees. Even like fruit pears,
>> they make great fruit. Um but they don't necessarily >> Yeah. Great. >> Hence the calorie. >> Okay. >> Can I ask two tactical questions on this? I know last time we had raised the the I don't want to say burning
question, but the perennial question of bathrooms and I think you had said like they're not on here right now, but next time we'll show you where they're going to be. Where are they going to be? >> Yeah. Um absolutely. And I think I wish I had a scr
upper left building which is currently approved for a hotel use, the plan is to put it there facing the green. Um, and I maybe I I misspoke or you misheard, but I the idea is that when we come before this group soon with an updated plan for that that phase, it'll be integrated
into that piece. Um, and likely we're also looking into adding bathrooms on the other side of the uh, retail village on that phase as well, which we're calling 1600, which this board has not seen yet. So, we're going to bookend the retail um, really core village area um,
with with those with two different public bathroom areas. But, um, because we weren't able to put it in the retail phase one, we're committing publicly now second or third time to definitely putting in um, that next phase. And the what I would just if it gives you any
comfort this King Street common um is benefits from us figuring out what to do on the other side of it. So this doesn't have this kind of you know temporary fence on one side. So it should hopefully get built uh the goal anyway is to get built very close to this is is one thing so that the bathrooms are
there on day one. And then um I don't know if you would show it in this kind of overlay, but um what's the plan for like public garbage cans out there? How frequently will they be? >> Just thinking if somebody is out there, they've gone to like maybe they're
sitting out with like a picnic lunch or something like that. >> Their kid needs to go to the bathroom and they need to throw out garbage. How far do they have to walk? >> Wait. Um I would say probably, you know, 50 feet or something. I mean, it's, you know, we're going to strategically locate them
a so you can see them and B, we really want to do that because otherwise we're humans and we're lazy. We're just going to leave our trash there if it's not convenient. >> So, um I I need to look at our site plan drawings. Uh I'm 90% sure that we did
show them on there. Uh but they will be throughout uh because it's to the project's benefit to do that. >> Cool. And I think we have recycling, you know, it'll be like a recycling trash, right? >> Yeah. We we as a group internally started looking at different trash can
typologies and styles and so we're we're definitely thinking about that and it is it's in our interest if this starts becoming trash and that's a huge operational problem. So even if for some reason we did it wrong day one, day two, we got to fix it. So, >> cuz I think I guess two notes on that. Both um from what I've heard like for
outdoor sort of entertainment, public gathering spaces, I think like every 30 feet is what what people will walk voluntarily. Um it's like that's like the standard from like the early '7s in Disney World. I don't know. But um the
other thing is I know there have been problems at the point with and in the apartment or the housing kind of behind the point with with rats because of I don't know if it's not enough garbage cans there or like the kitchen facilities and stuff or cooking
facilities. Um and like a lot of residents have had problems with rats since the point and um its restaurants has been open and I think that that's something to take into account with this since there will be residential obviously as part of it and then across
the street what we can do to like mitigate that and if it's better garbage can stuff stuff around like the restaurant kitchens. I'm raising the problem. I don't know the solution though. >> Yeah. I mean I think that's an operational challenge but I it's
something that'll be very important to us and because we will be managing >> that's the phase one too. >> No no no I mean it's all integrated because we minimize the back doors of these places. There really not very many of them. It's like everything has to be
wellmaintained. Um which is a challenge but I think it's but it's imperative. So but that's that's interesting to hear and it's not surprised I guess but I also we'll be working through that for sure. >> Thank you. Is there any possibility of moving that
undefined lower building 10 feet left and putting a row of trees next to that the beginning of the walkway? >> Absolutely a possibility. I mean, there's a possibility that building goes away entirely. Honestly, >> I don't know if I'd ask you to go that far. >> Well, not to say that I we just don't
know what we're really going to finalize there. And I think the hope is that it's something that helps counteract activate the other side of the King Street, I guess. And so, um, again, that's a placeholder. And I'm I apologize if it's creating confusion.
Um, Joe, you're fired. Um, no, it's I think I I hear you and I think we'll try to we we're definitely going to um, you know, make sure that it works with whatever retailer will go in there. Uh, but again, I I I can say yes now because I just don't know what we're
really doing. But I hear your comment. >> But I think I think some some more greenery near the street and and a little bit asymmetry in there would help just in design terms. I think it would make it more interesting. >> Or any other comments?
Um Maren, what is the status of the period? >> So let's see. Green provided their initial comments. Um we got initial feedback from the developers team today on they had responded to the comments.
green uh and development team and Cooper and I um had a meeting today to review any outstanding comments and they can all put in the c be put in the category of a few minor plan updates are needed but it's easy to do from an engineering
standpoint. So not difficult to resolve at all you could easily cover it with a condition. Um what are the present conditions that we're considering in the draft decision? If you could go through them.
>> Um yep. >> Uh so general conditions the site will be developed in accordance with the reference plans. Um special permits. >> We don't necessarily need the boiler plate. What what conditions are specific to this? Um so usually we have uh no
parking of vehicles is allowed on any any unpaved surface. In this particular case um where um some of the green might be used for a farmers market or when they're setting up for an event um you would need some vehicular access to the
green spaces there. So we're trying to come up with some interest some wording um that the board can live with on on that. And then you had suggested a condition of um handle the title house
>> and we had also um suggested and I don't think you got back to us I might be wrong but some bond amount to put the site back into shape not necessarily with the heartscape and the landscaping but just
back into shape so that it's not an isore. >> We agree to that. Sorry, I don't know if we if we may work clear on that but that that concept. Yes. >> Right. Um and right now we do have a condition that says town the site will be an integral part of phase one King Street common development. The site
shall either be completed prior to occupancy of the third building of the phase one commercial um or the site be brought to a minimum condition of graded and seated slash reclaimed >> and then
so okay so move along you would hold up your commercial I don't know I like that you of some amount uh that we could agree on. Um just so that if there is some
interruption in your retail plans that it just doesn't sit there and look at it. >> Yeah. I mean I think one or the other and if that's the bond is the preference then I I think it sounds like we're we're sort of being reasonable that it's not. I I I think we are being brought
back in the grade and we're trying to protect >> um you know our view right you know and it would be a disaster if you had some interruption in your retail plans that you couldn't you know green there would be nice to have something to at least
you know put it back in some semblance of order understood. Is there any comments from the board on that or on any other conditions there? >> Yeah. So, we just need to agree with the
wording on the um this phase will excuse me will require moving the total house. So, we just need to put it that's be specific about it. It's going to be moved on site subject to approval of the planning board.
>> And not that you can just move it anywhere you want. We could also rope in the historic commission, you know, for their judgment. >> Well, we can do that, but we don't have to put that as part of the decision, >> right? And and they certainly would
comment on any phase where that uses the tunnel house as part of >> final destination for it. So, uh any other comments from the board
at uh regarding the um uh site plan review? >> This maybe um predates my involvement, but do we have to approve that they're moving the stone walls like Massachusetts stonewall or did planning
board already approve that? No, >> we don't have to. It's not a it's not a scenic room. Scenic room. Okay. >> We have jurisdiction on walls that are in like the right of way. >> Okay. But here >> but first of all is private property and
secondly >> yeah scenic roadway in case you didn't know it. >> So that being said >> oh thank you any for anyone here tonight.
I'm Joanne Derry from Harwood Avenue. Um, there was some talk of pear trees. I hope that the trees that are selected will be native to this area. And pears tend not to do well with snow load. Um,
if you want to see what the calorie pairs look like, go look at the entry to Littleton High School. Those calorie pairs are not happy trees and they're now um in the document that Steve Whitten has, they're not to be planted
on public land cuz >> we're we're not talking about planting calories. >> Oh, good. Um, but any tree is not going to do well when you know 50% of its ryosphere is covered by pavers or pavement. So you might want to think
about trying to make sure those trees have enough, you know, soil, you know, soil that's opened where they can get rainfall and have air exchange cuz a lot of these trees about half of their ryosphere will
be covered in the plan that's shown. It might be good to extend that. And um I also I'm really appreciative of the idea that it wouldn't be called the town green. I'm kind of offended by that name. We already have a town common. I
would suggest like King Street Plaza or the King Street lawn or, you know, something like that, but it it's not our our town green. We already have one of those. So, thank you. See, we've already got a couple suggestions.
>> Yeah, lawn sounds good. >> Thank you. Anyone else? >> Sounds start naming things like green. Not even green, just like square. Something like inoculous. Maybe not me to a festival. >> Ready to close public? >> I think so. Um, do can I have a motion
to close the public hearing for the storm water permit and site plan review for the town? So moved. >> Second. I'm going to do by um >> Mark I or I
>> Margo Bartlett >> I >> uh Harold and I'm an I. So the hearing being closed um we can uh consider uh approving
the present draft decision. Um, is there anyone who thinks we should hold off on that? >> No. >> Okay, that being said, um, I need a motion that will incorporate all these
various Yes. >> Yes. So make a motion to approve the uh name of the document here the uh site plan uh decision and storm water permit
um with the uh changes that we discussed at this meeting including the placement of a tunnel house placement of a bond for completion and what was the third one >> then updating the standard um no parking
on spaces to allow for um activities activities. >> Okay. >> Can I have a second? >> Second. >> I'm going to do a roll call. Arc
>> I >> and I'm okay. So smiling. Um our next uh since it's past 650 uh what our next item is endorsing the King Street King Street common amended
definitive def definitive subition myars and co the 20-day appeal period has been now there's been a lot of back and forth about
which at its heart is a basic subdivision covenant. What is our final disposition with town council and your council? >> Um so um the version that was included
in the meeting packet um and there's a couple copies here this evening. Um there's only one more comment um from uh development team um and they're looking for a leeway to um in their refinancing
process to uh transfer parcels um to an entity and they're suggesting a wording um or conveyance by deed or deeds of a lot or lots subject to this covenant to an entity or entities in which the Salvator Salvatore and Napolei has an
ownership interest. That's um they proposed in paragraph five to be added to paragraph five. Um town council didn't have a chance to review um
approve of that concept. Um we could if you wish you could leave final wording up to approval of town council. Now, um I want to invite Mark to comment on this because he's he went through this whole process with the point.
>> Again, I still don't have a problem as long as it's not a sale to another entity where Mr. Le will not be involved. It's just like we did up at the point as Martin remembers correctly. Um Mr. Park had a couple of different
partners in there, one of them being Donald Mark Basket. He did come before us when he sold that parcel to Market Basket, but each parcel has a different partnership deal. He just informed us of it and we just moved on from it. So, I I
don't see this as a problem at all. >> Um, that being said, can I hear a motion? Well, first of all, any other comments from any board members? And if not, can I hear a motion to um >> approve and endorse the covenant um with
the proviso that town council uh agrees to the >> the final wording of the final of the uh uh change proposed by
Um, can I hear a motion? Do you need a motion on just the covenant or is there a separate piece here that you motion on? >> So, it'll be on the covenant just a motion to endorse the sub. time. I make
a motion to um approve the covenant subject to f final town council review of of section five and then also to endorse the um myars. Can I hear a second? >> Second.
>> Mark, >> yes. >> Marco, >> yes. >> Barley, >> yes. >> Carol, >> yes. And I'm a yes. So, we're um >> and then we can sign those.
>> Yeah. >> Put the lights back on. >> You feel comfortable signing? >> Oh, here the lights. >> Got a signature. >> Thank you. It's too much here.
Three sheets as it comes down. Then we have two signatures on the cover. That's the liner. Okay. >> Are you are you speaking on behalf of >> Mark I think is either watching andor
trying to zoom in but I'm here also as well. Thanks Mark. Oh yeah. >> Good evening, chair. Want to thank you for letting in. I apologize I could not be there tonight. >> Are you able to hear me?
>> Yes. So Mark um our next item uh is called revised storm water permit and site plan decision. Can you explain to us what the use revisions consist of?
>> Yeah, I I appreciate that chair. I appreciate the opportunity to meet with you and town council on making some minor adjustments to the language in the planning board decision for that site plan approval and storm water permit as
it related to some offsite mitigation. We also clarified um the correct units. Um, and so this was uh reviewed by town council. Um, and I believe we were all in agreement that the language uh works
for us um as well as the town. >> So I think the board is uh probably primarily interested in the revised unit count. >> Sure. You know, and we did end up adding one unit from 318 to 319 as we
progressed our design. Uh when we originally submitted it was more of a conceptual blocking plan and now that we're advancing design as we move towards a construction set uh the architect had uh got a little bit more conservative in kind of the mechanical
back of house space and we were able to identify one additional unit. We also were able to increase the threebedroom count which I know was important to the town and to the board. So the three-bedroom count did increase. Uh the twobedroom count did did decrease as a
result. Um and the studios did stay the same. And so the one bedrooms uh were were a little bit up. Was there any uh or can there be any consideration of an additional
um affordable leave or designating one of not necessarily the three-bedroom, but designating a unit as an affordable? Um it's I mean we would I I don't want to say no, but we would we would
probably just keep it at 318 um if that extra unit um were to be affordable. >> Okay. Um for Carol. >> Uh no. >> No.
>> Happy to see another threebedroom. >> Yeah. I have no >> okay is >> okay um the other the other aspect of this revision was to the allowed transfer of
the parcels there's a three parcels involved >> to and that has been squared away >> yes yeah and thank you chair yeah the other point was um right now the applicant with us and loli is just a a
general um you know we apply under our general name, but the property will be placed in a, you know, specific LLC that will be controlled by us. So, we just added language that it can be transferred to an entity controlled by us. Just that that um entity that will
own uh the parcels has not been established yet. >> Okay. Any other comments? And I just want to, you know, just uh confirm we have concurrence of town council on all these changes.
>> Correct. >> Right. Do you need a motion? >> Yes. Make a motion to approve the revised storm water permit and site plan and allow the transfer of parcels um as as the negotiations.
>> I hear a second. Second. All in f all Mark >> I'm an I. >> Marco >> hi. >> Barta. >> Hi. >> Darl >> I and I'm an I. >> Okay. Thank you Mark. >> Thank you chair. Thank you everyone.
>> Okay. It is now past 7:15 and we will open not a hearing but an informal discussion of uh Kimble Farm LG facility. And who do we have here?
>> Thank you. >> Great. Thank Thank you all. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Can you introduce yourself? >> Yes. Good evening. My name is Mark Riley. I'm an assistant general counsel national grid. Um with me is the project manager Jeff Hancock,
environmental scientist Matt Wazak, and his outside consultant Joe White. So, thank you for taking the time to discuss our proposal to we have to relocate the um allergy vaporization operation that's currently at the 550
King Street um to the Kimmel Farms location and then like take a little bit of time to talk about the the operation itself, the need for it, how we landed on this location, um and then why uh it
makes sense for your board to be the the reviewing board. Um, the project is is very similar. I don't know if it's identical, but very similar to what's currently at King Street. >> Can I stop you there right now?
>> We knew nothing about that facility at King Street. >> Okay. And I regret that I that they excused themselves because it's not right that the town knew nothing about
that facility there. So >> then before the polling was done IBM, right? >> I don't think so. Doesn't matter. We don't know. We didn't know. >> So can let's put about two years. Yes.
>> Can we Why don't we put up um maybe this the let's put up the the layout. >> It would have been easier for you now if we had known about it because then we would be familiar with it and you know
it would be sort of a straightforward moving from one place to the next. >> So and I'll I'll give you the while he's looking for that the the background in 2004 we found out Yeah. Does that go? Hold it. Can you see it? You want to >> We don't have control of that one.
>> It does for our our gas transmission supplier notified us that they would no longer be supplying us gas to this area. Um Littleton and the surrounding communities. That kicked off a contingency planning because we have to maintain
um gas service. these these operations provide kind of um peak demand backup peak demand during the winter months. Um so without that gas supply we had to mobilize this operation. I don't have the background on why it landed at King
Street. Um we can figure that out and when we come back um so uh that's that's why that operation happened at King Street. we had to continue to supply residents and businesses, etc. Gas during the winter
months. Um because of the the redevelopment of of the the property that you were just discussing, um our lease is up there. They're not going to renew that. They they were gracious enough to give us an additional year um
because we were pinched. Um so, uh we had to look for another location, alternative location. Um we we looked at 12 separate sites not only surrounding this take station
but um a couple others as well. So was it was a pretty broad look. We found 12 sites. We applied um several criteria at each of those sites. Kimble Farms emerged as the the superior site for for a host of reasons. Um maybe
if we can look at the the the larger aerial. So, um, it's it's obviously remote from the public way. So, from a like a aesthetics or visibility perspective, it's beneficial. Um, it's
tucked away. It's it also is proximate to the gas main, the under underground gas main that has to be extended to this operation. um because of that proximity, it's a it's a smaller construction project and
that means shorter duration, less disruption to the to the public way. So, if you can see the red line is where the gas pipeline would be extended. So, it be from about Sha Street um to that
access road to Kimble Farms and that um ends up at their adjacent to their water plant. I guess it is in that parking lot. So, it's already a disturbed area. There's already an adjacent utility use there. Um,
uh, so um, you know, in addition to being remote, there's really no other, um, residential or commercial structures nearby. Um, so it it it for those reasons and others that maybe Jeff could get into that that location emerge as
the the top choice for us. Um, we think that the the, you know, these types of operations are are heavily regulated by the state. The the DPU's Division of Pipeline Safety ensures that there's compliance with federal and
state safety regulations. At the local level, it's um it's a little less clear. Um, we find commonly in my experience that communities these types of essential service infrastructure are are not
commonly regulated by zoning laws and if they are, it's a little ambiguous and I think we find that here in Littleton. It's not expressly prohibited. Um, it is a residentially zoned area. Um, but you know,
pipes and wires have to be everywhere in every district. So it's regulating it through the zoning is not um it's not always a good fit I guess I'd say. Um so that creates a little bit of ambiguity. Um we think given the planning board's
experience with reviewing you know the technical matters surrounding project makes sense for it to sit with you. Um you you know you have access to a third party reviewer if you need it. either um have experience with you know imposing
conditions that ensure you know public interest is protected things like that. Um so you know for those to be frank the other idea you know we reviewed the bylaw talked to the building official
the fire chief um I saw uh you know the ZBA chair attorney G's submission where she's recommending that it sit here as well. I think that makes a lot of sense for some of the reasons I just said. Um I know she mentioned a a conditional use
permit. We're kind of agnostic as to the mechanism. Site plan review would work as well. Um as long as that, you know, the town has an opportunity to to dig into the details and review it. Um but uh
the other idea that that I heard was a a use variance in front of the the zoning board. And to be frank, that's gives us a lot of heartburn because that's a discretionary decision that, you know, is a heightened risk of denial, heightened risk of
appeal, high risk of delay, which, you know, uh, we really can't afford when we're trying to get this operation um, stood up and in service for the following heating season. >> Jeff, can I interject here since I've
been here so long? kind of relate to what he just said. I've been thinking long and hard about justifying putting a commercial entity in a residential neighborhood. How that how we can come to that good and you hit it right on the head when you said
there's a lot of other utilities that have done this in the past and I've been on the board for 34 years and I've approved a couple of them that have and I'm going to share it with the board because they probably don't even know that we did it. There's a AT&T
substation, phone station, whatever you want to call it, on go on King Street right next to Shadic Street that's been there for 60, 70 years. They did an expansion and everything else that came before the police approved because it's
an necessary enhancement as you put to the services that are being provided. There's also the telephone tower that's up on the top of uh town road that's residential. That's was put in in the 60s for as national defense or whatever
you want to call it. So that's how I get around putting a commercial entity in a residential. It's needed to support the residential. So I don't have a problem with this because that's exactly where the >> So we recently approved a water department.
would approve several water department same thing we needed for our >> infrastru one one thing that I I think you need to for anyone who's watching and anyone who's interested uh first of all I should disclose I live in that neighborhood I'm very very familiar with
the site uh I walk my dogs there frequently um and it is very out of the way Um, and also I am a gas customer and I have
an interest in having my house heated during the coldest days of winter. But I would, you need to back up a little bit and assume because this is an informal discussion, but it is televised uh and describe the nature of this. I
don't think people realize that it's essentially mobile. >> It's seasonal. And uh we did see a um uh well in the lower right hand corner you see the diagram of the um the tanks
that are basically on truck >> beds. Um and it's I mean because I feel some calls from my neighbors when they saw this and it sounds a lot scarier than it is.
>> Yeah. And um I meant to touch on that earlier. Thank you for reminding me these. So this is a purely seasonal uh operation. There will be no permanent structures. Um there'll be no permanent alteration to the property. This will
he's trying to find a schematic that will show it's it's a trailer with wheels. The the storage units are um are on wheels. They're they're left for the season. So they'll be rolled on in November and they'll be rolled up in April. site will be restored and no one
would know there was anything there. Um, so there's there's nothing permanent about it. Um, I think there'll be four storage units, one vaporizer, and then there'll be associated um, you know, purchases and equipment to
make it all run. The the storage units have liqufied natural gas in it. The vaporizer vaporizes that into gas and then ejects it into the system. That's why the pipeline has to be extended down and it'll have a kind of a manifold that comes out of the ground.
That'll be the only permanent thing, but it'll just look like a little pipe coming out of the ground. >> Um, >> if these are rolled on seasonally, what is that like? I mean, those are pretty big things that you're talking about rolling through a residential community. And also
I understand that all all energy transmission and um and storage like this comes with risk, but given that it's a temporary unit, aren't a lot of those risks heightened. >> You're jostling around some >> No. Well, I I I will say that these this
operation for for both grid and Eversource is quite common throughout the Commonwealth. Um I don't know how many we have. we can maybe gather those numbers, but um it's a it's a common way
to back up the distribution system. Um >> this is similar to the big tank that's out by uh Route 3 in Boston, right? That's that's LNG comes in on the tank >> the door. That's that is LG. Yeah, that's
>> so this is very and we can pull some of that as well, but very good safety record. Um there's no um you know national grid is hyperfocused on safety. It's it's I think you know what we call
process safety is kind of a an end to end look at making sure everything is safe. The the transport of these um is a very very good safety record. Um so I I don't uh there isn't a height height risk. I mean, so relative to what I'm,
you know, it's a safe operation >> given that it's going to be about a thousand feet from a nursery school, >> um, I I guess we want to make sure obviously in a residential area, but also that proximity to a nursery school.
I feel like >> board of health needs to have some perspective on this. >> I want to just continue so so you prepare for the safety things. What's, you know, what's the disaster blast radius of that? What kind of, you know, when you pressurize, when it's coming
off of the primary, is it the one that has the odor in it or is it on the other side? You know, what, you know, I want you to address the uh the safety issues uh around that. And not that you have a good safety record. We're not questioning that. It's what happens if
something goes wrong. How big of a I hate to say it, a blast area. uh is you know subject to it here in terms of um you know concerns and and I I you know have that same shared concern that we have a um daycare center that's right at
the intersection of the road one of the roads that leads right up to that that if there was some type of emergency and emergency vehicles are there access to the daycare is also impeded during an emergency. >> Why why are we just talking about the daycare? >> Well, I just my house is closer to it
than the daycare. You've lived your life more concerned. You've lived your life. >> You're within the blast radius and you're going to be taking anyway. I'd like you just to address, you know, uh the considerations of those so that we can understand that. >> Mr. Chair, excuse me, but it sounds as
if Mr. Baker thinks that the access and eress is on 119 in Littleton. And I think they need to describe for you that it is not. Yeah, I'm just looking there's a road that goes right up to there. >> It's not on 119. The road is 110 and I
don't think they've made it >> leaded to some level. >> This is the road that's called the bus entrance at Kimble Farm. That's the road they'll be using, not the one in Littleton. >> It doesn't connect to one. >> And I I don't think the presentation
I have the Google map, but I think pipeline, the red line. >> Well, this is not only the questions I'm going to ask, it's the questions we're going to receive from the community because people, even though it's blocked off there, sorry, if they're trespassing on Kimble's property, but we know people ride their bikes up that, you know, up
that road uh and stuff uh there, people walk up that way. So, it's a real, you know, real thing. And then I want to just for your sake, you introduced um Attorney G. Um, she's not representing
the ZBA tonight. She's just representing >> Kim Kimbles. You You said she was representing the ZBA when you uh introduced >> No, I was going to say I >> I just wanted to clarify that for the record that she's >> not representing the ZBA tonight.
>> But I think that the generalized safety um you know, we need to be educated on that. And once again, this facility has been here for two years. None of us knew about it. Um, that's not right. So, we
have to when we go forward, we need to know more. >> Do you need a special um condo to bring these out or they just go over the road? You don't have anything. >> Everything is over the road. Um, it's essentially any tractor trailer as far as the length and the size of it. That
picture is from a site that we have down the Cape which supplies helps back the Cape as well as one of our similar to Dorchester facility down in sou to speak to safety. As Mark mentioned, we have a very rigorous process safety more so
than most LDC's. What you see on the screen here is what we call the facility sighting. We also did something very similar for 550 King Street as part of our process. This is just our standard procedure. What you see in this uh
without pulling up the entire report is it analyzes all the mechanical connections all the uh potential uh release of gas uh release of LG or products that could be flammable or combustible in this case.
Uh so when we're talking about blast radius or we're talking about uh the the hazards associated with the operation each one of these radius describe the event and the probability and we're looking at one in a million
years one in 10 million years. So that's kind of what we're looking at when we go to look at these sites. Uh as Mark mentioned we looked at basically a dozen sites. We then pri prioritized those to
hydraulic needs. So where they best fit in the system and where it'll feed the best. Uh when we initially started doing this, there is property out towards Lunenburgg. However, at the tail end of the system, at least our system, it
doesn't get to this area. It feeds a small portion also because we only have 60 lb system out there. So, as far as the central location, we looked at Actton, but we're on that side of it, too. So, there's that sweet spot between
the middle where hydraulically we're able to serve uh 19 towns. So, it's not just Little Pin or Westward. There's 19 towns that we serve in our West area. If this doesn't take place, 13,000
customers potentially lose gas service amongst those communities. So, as you mentioned, you know, you live there and you like your heat. Personally, a couple years ago, I lost power, lost heat, got my kids out of the house because it was in freezing degrees, and I had to deal
with frozen pipes and stuff like that. As a steward for our customers, it's my responsibility to make sure people don't lose heat. >> So, could you describe under what conditions this gas would enter the system?
>> Absolutely. So um the reason I mention that is we ran three times this year when it was -38 and what our goal is is uh it's called the design day. It's based on 65° that would heat someone's house and then we
deduct it from there. So basically when it's zero that's when we go online and there's a little bit of flexibility. If it gets down to 10° or something like that, it can be forecasted. But our intent is to ensure that during peak hours, morning hours, evening hours when
people are typically at home or businesses are operating, depending on the location, uh that we're supplying gas supply. So, uh we're obligated to do that, but part of that isn't just on a whim. So, we spent uh to get to this
location 550 specifically a few years ago, we spent three and a half months analyzing multiple options, modifying tstations, pipeline, a lot of things to meet the need for that season. That's when we
went with the portable option. Um did the same exact thing. So the daycare that's down the road at the end of Shade Street on the corner there is without is outside of these contours is what we call them. So we are very deliberate on
identifying any single like a a flange connect a bolted connection that leak that could have a leak. We include how many of those how many components on the trucks and to your point as far as travel and safety and vibration during transport. Uh
they're stainless welded primarily. All those connections are stainless welded. There are a couple of uh fittings that have u threaded joints. So those get leak tested but uh welded is a lot more secure than having a lot of mechanical
joints. And it's built that way specifically. So that way uh due to the nature of those vessels and those components u >> so this is no different than really the infrastructure that's under the boats it's all natural gas.
>> So to yeah so to Mark's point this comes in as liquid essentially gets heated up vaporized and goes out as natural gas. Uh the way we developed and plan the site is uh when this all gets picked up at the end of
April, I'm sorry, at the end of March when the season's over, all the trucks, all that goes, there's no piping and we we now designed it so it's all the piping below grade. So, uh this is exactly it. We've made provisions to feed our 200lb system, which is the
primary goal to distribute to regulator stations and and serve the 19 communities. On this one specifically, we also made provisions to have a 60 lb system. Natural liquid natural gas LG is at
-260°. So, anything above that, it's going to start vaporizing into gas. Our intent is to reclaim all that so we don't have any environmental exposures by venting. So we want to control both aspects of it. So that's why on one of the other screens there's a 60 lb system
as well. So to your point uh most of the pipeline that you drive on on 110 or wherever uh you're driving over like 200 lb or 60 lb gas lines. Why I brought that up is because I used to live on
King Street, 242 King Street. Europe pipelines used to go over the bridge from 495. They've been doing it for 50 years. You have a leak there. You've had a leak there for probably 40 years. And because of the movement of the bridge, once in a while it leaks and you can smell it. So all it does is it goes up
into the atmosphere and it's not flammable because it's so open to the atmosphere. and all the gas companies would do, I don't know if it was National Grid or who had would put dirt on it because they couldn't get to the connection at the bridge. And so once in
a while they would come and they would repair it and put dirt or you could smell it or I could smell it and I'd call the gas company or somebody else would call the gas company. They'd come because of the expansion joints of the bridge. It would expand with that and the best way they to fix it was to put
cover it up with dirt to mitigate it. But it was never a health or a safety issue. It dissipates in the atmosphere. >> And that's a good point because we could rate leaks on SER um and then monitor them based on that. Uh but you'll be happy to know we actually have a whole
consent order program where we're placing pipon bridges. So um >> I think you probably as far as we were discussing. So LG um will not just combust. Um it'll it'll leak out and vaporize, but
to your point, it's combustible or it's flammable at the right mixture. You need all the components just like the fire triangle I think we've all learned about at some point, but you need all the components to come together. So um as you imagine, small leak,
there's your fuel source. However, you're not in the right mixture. So, >> can I also point out something too that hasn't been mentioned yet. So, again, that was a environmental engineer. Uh, National Grid has seven permanent LG facilities and I manage the environmental compliance and permitting
at those. And we have a half dozen of these portable units. Um, as Mark was mentioning, you know, most of the year it's just going to be a parking lot with a fence. Um, we do not store full tanks
of LNG at this property all winter long. What we do is we anticipate the demand is going to go up when the the temperatures get go down. And so we'll we'll bring a full truck or two to a site. Um, when the demand uh, you know,
exceeds the supply, we inject the u, you know, the vaporized LG into the system. Um, so the trucks come on site full and then once they get on site, we vaporize it and empty them and then they leave
site. So we do not store LG out of sight for an extended period of time. It comes on site, it gets vaporized, then it leaves. So I just wanted to kind of make that clear. >> Is it like a gas tank or it's probably bigger than that, but it's the same idea. >> It's a It's a typical gas tanker size.
Is it by any chance made by FIVA, which is a local company that does LMG tankers? >> So, actually, it's local. >> We uh go to Applied Cryote Technologies, and they're in Texas. >> I I think their theirs are smaller.
They're not as big, >> but the reason we went to them is I won't name the company's names. We've had issues with other equipment, >> okay? >> Which we don't tolerate. Yeah. So, uh, we're having them build some of it, uh,
new equipment for us now. And we have full-time weld inspection, oversight inspection as our representatives as well as their QAQC. So, we're duplicating efforts because it's in Texas. We can't be down there all the time. Well, we specifically picked them
because they are the premier uh there's a lot of natural gas produced in Texas, but that's exactly it. And so, you know, Mark Mark mentioned this equipment. We use it to supplement the gas to provide for our customers. This
type of operation is done a lot of times, especially like in the west uh down in Texas and stuff where they do major pipeline or transmission pipeline repairs, shutdowns, whatever the case, they still need to supplement. So, they do them on a pretty considerable scale.
Um, you know, more so than we do in for a longer duration as Matt pointed out that we did uh two weekends in January and one weekend in February this year. So we brought the trucks on site, loaded up the LG on between Thursday and
Friday, split the loads. So there's only a couple of trucks coming in per day and then Saturday and Sunday. And then one of in February I think was Sunday and Monday that we vaporized. And um
so the image I had was that you at the beginning of the season you parked these full tankers but that's not >> correct. Correct. >> Simply a way to transfer the LG into the
system >> on an as needed basis. Correct. Absolutely. >> LG is is a cryogenic liquid. It's - 260°, but it expands 600 times so that you're allowed. It's a very efficient way to to transport and supply natural gas to the
system. So, we don't have to use a lot of trucks. So, >> so I have one more anecdotal 242 King Street story about natural gas. So, you have 200 pound lines running over the bridge to feed everybody. Um 20 years
ago or 15 years ago, they were putting signs on the bridge to get on 195 right there and they accidentally punctured a 200 lb. So it was full-blown 200 lb. It's coming straight up in the air. It was a cloud. I mean it was because it
was 200 degrees below whatever. And uh there was no explosion. There was no I mean it was amazing when it was coming out but there was no issue with it blowing up or no issue with the safety and they evacuated. They made me leave
and everything else like that evacuated everybody but they obviously shut it off very quickly but it was wasn't like there was the fear it was going to blow up. >> So it takes a lot to blow this thing up. >> But even before uh things blowing up like were people suffering headaches?
What did that do to like the >> Well, first of all, that was >> Why were you evacuated? >> Probably wasn't healthy to >> because there was a chance that if somebody lit it on fire, it would blow up. But >> but I mean, >> that's a precautionary thing. >> I don't even think you could light this thing. It was so cold.
>> No, it's going at 200 lb. The velocity that it's actually coming out at and that's sort of why it clouds over, not to get to whatever, but by the time it got to the point, you're 50 ft high. You know what I mean? It's one of those things. in natural gas it's lighter than air regardless but uh
kind of a side here I I was a captain on my fire department and so we would do training with the utilities but exactly like that that's you know we got a uh when all the anthrax stuff was going on someone found an envelope and looked like powder so you know just our
procedure is you evacuate because obviously life safety is what we're we're doing and very similar with a gas That's why we do like what we do. So, um, you know, people get dispatch notices for leaks and something like that. And then the
fire departments, ton of um, uh, first responders and stuff like that. So, we work closely, as Mark already mentioned, uh, we're working with the captain, uh, Delasio currently. Uh, he was assigned by the chief, but we're in communication
with both Westford, Littleton. That was my question because it the access is literally through Westford and the actual transfer happens in Littleton but everything else happens in Westford. >> Yep. >> So they're aware they're in the loop.
>> Yes. So we have uh project engagement p departments, customer and community departments both of which have been working with uh DPW fire uh and then some other town officials depending on who they're working with. So, and and I
also filed an RDA with the West Conservation Commission. We've had two hearings. Um, we met with them last night. It was continued. Um, we've been in consultation with natural heritage and we're awaiting a letter from them
and that's what the conservation commission waited for to close the hearing. I met with the Littleton Conservation Commission on Tuesday. We found NY. They're in the process of scheduling a site visit and reviewing our plan. So they're yeah both of us
very hard are involved. >> What's the uh radius of those various circles? I'd have to pull up the full report to be honest. Um but I can provide that information. uh in um Sherivic
we would have had similar consultations two years ago right with the police chiefs or the fire chiefs and stuff like that to my point that there's some ambiguity when you start to apply zoning I think perhaps the reason why it didn't appear
before this board is that there was a determination that no relief was needed or no relief was needed from commercial from the zoning bylaw perspective. >> I mean still but again I don't know you speculate a little bit of it's unfortunately wider under but the
community you know we do these site plan reviews to allow the community to be educated and weigh in. Um anyway, so >> I got a couple other comments um there. So currently it's an undeveloped site uh
there, you know, which alleviates a, you know, some concerns on it, but it's currently zoned residential. At one time there was a 40B development proposed in there that they let laps uh there, but it's still subject to future development. So
while it's empty now, it's not empty, you know, forever. uh on it and I'd like to make sure we understand you know what kind of radius around this should we be considering that we would need to be perhaps restricting residential development so that it doesn't
residential doesn't encroach onto this piece of the of the of the property here the other part and you you said operationally you don't store uh but um I would probably want to make sure that we see something that storage is not
allowed you know uh there that you don't change your operating procedure that you want to then store you know do do longer term storage of >> we have storage on site we have personnel on site we have operators there 24/7 when the tanks are there
>> right but I mean the way you said described it operationally it's a you come in you empty the tank and then you drive it off >> uh there but that's an operational procedure not uh I would probably want to make that codified into some kind of >> requirement that it's not you know that
if you new set of manager comes in, they decide to want to park the tanker there and leave it because you two aren't working there anymore. >> That that's not something that we're going to deal with in the future. That we've worked with Captain Delasio as far as uh
I'm trying to remember that there's a alpha numeric permit um specifically for storage, propane, fuels, stuff like that. So, we worked that. Um, they determined that wasn't applicable because of the nature of it. And we'll
work on trying to get how that's written um with our subject matter expert. Um, >> it's just it's something we just don't do it. You know, it's >> I think what the suggestion is if there's a planning board decision on it,
>> D would like to have that as a condition. >> And that's Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You will include that. >> Not just the what the fire chief tells you that you can or can't do. Again, those could change operationally over time. These are things I want to have would need to see embodied.
>> No, please. I'd be I'd be there. >> I welcome that as a condition. That's a good, >> you know, and I know you can't speak to it, but I don't know if attorney G can speak to any of the development plans for the rest of the parcel. >> Representing representing Kimble Farms.
Thank you for clarifying. I am not here as any >> Yeah. No, no, no. I >> um the Kimbles have no plans for developing that area of the property and residential development there. And I suspect a restriction on residential development um would not be opposed. I'd
have to check with them. So, so then we wouldn't have to worry about a residential development happening in here and then then it like in some of your other areas residential is really becomes too close. I would like to see something like that because it's >> in the middle of
>> I I think those would be the types of things I'm saying it to you because you're representing Kimbles uh there that I would like probably see some sort of restriction on residential development >> within a radius as we're talking about it >> and and what what time period this this
is a lease but it it's how long are you going for? I mean, so we have 10 years uh proposed with two one-year extensions in that time I'll back up a little bit. So our
agreement with Sali and and their team was a uh one-year lease with two six months extensions which we had to enact while we were working on relocating as Mark mentioned. Um
they were opposed back in August last year when we started uh working actually sorry May um they were opposed to extending the lease anymore and then um given this current situation and our need to provide for our
customers we had to come up with a contingency plan. So that was a directive presumably they're a large customer of yours. Sorry. They're a large customer of yours, even the existing building, but with the new development, they're they have an interest in.
>> Yes. Um so we you've alluded to um the sort of regulatory uh framework for which we as a planning board can um
go along with this use in the residential zone. Um we have two attorneys here that could maybe the case. Um,
>> actually this is no different than the cell towers. >> Okay, we have three attorneys here. >> This is no different than the cell towers. We allow cell towers on residential because it's a it's a utilities, but there's additional safety concerns associated
>> given that our climate action plan has a section on gas leaks. Um, and forgive me, I don't know if that is a sustainability thing or a board of health thing, but it seems like in the interest of better communication around this than we had or didn't have two
years ago, um, we need to review it in that context as well. Well, the purpose of whatever hearings we undertake will be and it would be in the form of a site plan, get to any use
>> that would come into the town and um that would go into detail of all the things we talked about in addition to security fencing, lighting, you know, this that the other thing. the the interest the interesting thing you said is a 24-hour staffing when it's being in
use. All these things have to come into play to um make people comfortable with this in the community and once I got to go back to the fact that it's
been in our community and we didn't know about it and it's a little mad. So I think you know considering this is an informal discussion it's an opportunity to raise some of the points that we you know >> that will be will be focusing on >> that we'll be focusing on yes
>> but I think but I think that I maybe speak for the board that we are as a planning board willing to go through this process without saying how it's going to turn out but you know we will be willing to consider as a
planning board the process We can handle it on a site plan level. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Yeah. >> So, and you also have um a storm water permit application um for the associated parking lot.
>> Can those be reviewed concurrently or >> and I and I didn't want to spend their money on a peer review of the storm water if there wasn't a clear path. >> When are you anticipating needing this? By November, December. >> Truth be told, it would have been for this November. However, having a pivot,
uh, we'd like to construct during this time. So, actually, we don't have any real impact on Kimble's operation or hight traffic area during the summer. Um, so that construction would be taking place uh over the over the winter time.
Um, that gets us operational for 2728 as a start. Well, you you'll have to do road improvements into that the road there. So that's, you know, so kind of dirt road when I drive around in the driving range.
>> That's exactly it. So that's part of it, too. So for accessibility and safety, we do our due diligence to try and think of things. So a tanker full of LG gets stuck because it goes off in a gravel road, you know
what I mean? That's that's tough. and anyone that's plowed anything gravel stuff. So by paving the surface obviously it's more beneficial for uh you know safety and reliability to make sure we have access and it's easy enough to pull out >> and that's the RDA with the compound
bus. >> So what what's going to happen to this one? Will it stay at a pole until you open here? >> So if you go to La right now it's a parking lot. We still have the perimeter fence up. So you know you made comments. I driving by I used to see the fence going hm what's what's going on back
there you know >> but that's not to be quiet in it but like that's our intent we had a site in Rhode Island that unfortunately we were so close to the street you couldn't help but notice what was going on right and uh you know we're all aware that there's
different thoughts behind gas so um you know we keep that in mind and um look for areas that are secluded so that way you know we're not putting in everyone's face that you know we're
doing this kind of stuff and uh you know trying to choose the most optimal location for ourselves for you know as we mentioned with booth Kimble you know we took a long time to make sure that residents walking weren't
going to all of a sudden just walk into this parking lot all fenced off and stuff like that Um we talk about you mentioned security and lighting. So we have provisions in the plan for that including which we have to for security during the operation is to have barbed
wire. Every year if this goes we have a contractor that will come in remove all the barbed wire so there's no liability if someone decides to jump over a bar fence. um you know so that's one of the things that we've worked out uh in conjunction with Kimble is to try and
determine the what if what ifs or the unknown unknowns. So um we welcome any other thoughts because I think we're all aware that you can't think of everything. So >> yeah. So, is this something that you do like a two-level fencing, maybe a
greater exterior perimeter and then your barbed wire inside so that if somebody was walking through the woods, they would come up to your barbed wire fence. >> All right. So, it comes up on No. Um, we would have to extend our footprint even more. So, um, so what we have is a
a privacy screen. Um, and then as you said, you know, you went by, so you can't really see through it. Um but it's 8 ft high and then parable wire. So um given that it's a winter operation and just doing some layout on site this
winter, uh there would only be two um the south side the the side old cottage road or old stage coach stage coach. Thank you. U and then the access road towards the the water treatment plant. Those are the only two the size that you would actually be able to access in the
winter time anyways or get there I should say. So >> we're trying to maintain it in the existing footprint of the parking lot that keeps us out of the 50ft buffer. There's a foot buffer that happens. >> So we're trying to make it as compact as
possible. Is this the only um such thing in the in the 19 town area that you serve or is there another place where they have placed storage tanks? >> So, not portable. Um
the the reason behind the whole reason this came up is the transmission company, one of the transmission companies that we work with just work on their line >> and they said we're shutting it down and then unfortunately it just turned into a contractual where we weren't able to use
that line anymore. So we had to come up with that alternative. That's why we spent that three and a half months trying to figure out the options. Um so for this area specifically and as I mentioned toward further towards the west it gets down to a 60 lb system. So it's really hard to um
it's really hard to feed a system from that end of it. So that's where when I was saying hydraulically speaking um this is kind of the key location. I did get a notice my battery is going to die. I just wanted to get back to we were talking about those radiuses. Um,
let me see if I can um >> 300. >> Yeah, I'm trying to get to There we go. So, essentially, we're talking, you know, the exponential u that's where, you know, we're coming up with the uh the
one event in a million years, 10 million, 100 million years. So, uh this considers offsite. So, back to daycare or the other businesses, Sullivan Tire. stuff like that or even Campbell for that matter. Uh we look at off-site impact as well as actually on-site. So
even though we you know we have personnel trained operators on site, we still consider that risk as well. So um there's not an overlay showing the way they do the reports. There's not an overlay showing these dimensions with
the overlay, but I could probably get something together. >> Yeah. So, the other part I'd be interested in is is um what's what's the um if there was an incident, what's the typical evacuation zone that you require around a you know
around an event? Like if it's across the street from Mark's house, clearly his house was within the radius. Is there typical radiuses for evacuation based on different events that you have? >> I will get that information from >> I like that overlaid on the map. I I'll
get that from the fire department. I don't want to speak for them and what their policies are regarding this. So, uh if that that works for you, we get that information. We can overlay that in the site. >> Yeah. Definitely depend on the mean because this this rises. >> Yeah. No, I I'm looking mainly in terms
of what would be, you know, is it, you know, 10 ft, 100 ft, 1,000 ft, 2,000 ft. >> Yeah. So, depending on what their response time would be is what we would dictate that. And then I'd like that overlaid on the map so that we when we're talking about, you know, where should we make sure that we don't have
additional development that we take that into account? >> Sure. Okay. That can I uh open it up to any other questions, Joanne? >> Yeah. >> It's informal.
>> I'm wondering about lightning. like can it be dark sky compliant so that you know the lights are low temperature Kelvin and not left on all night they're just like motion sensitive lighting so
when they're not they're not on unless there's a person there who needs to see and also noise like how loud will it be >> not have it be noisy at all >> again another another benefit of the
where uh we're away from everything. Um the vaporizers run gas. So, uh, if you ever heard like a a generator like a auxiliary generator for a building or something, um,
it's not to equate as far as we don't know like a decel uh, you know, register, but uh, regarding the lighting, we have discussed that as far as the warm lighting, there's a couple of aspects. So those
past three weekends, we were on site at midnight to prepare to come online for 4:00 a.m. to make sure that happened. So unfortunately, we're out there when it's below freezing, speeding snow, lousy, dark. So um what we discussed is having
uh lighting provisions that we control so when the operations happening, it's safe for us to operate. Um, the last thing we want to do is put anyone at risk. But that being said, it's not a free-for-all in daylight. The light also is focused into the site. So, we've got
um our engineering firm showing the spread. So, it's focused on the site because of the uh surrounding area close to the wooded area. We didn't want it uh >> I forget the term. >> Light trespass.
>> Light glut. >> Yeah, I did. Yeah. So, >> and and um so with the noise that's only when you're charging when you're vaporizing the gas every now and then during these extremely cold events.
>> Yes. So running that's when there'll be noise. >> And then but with the light is that going to be security the whole time that you're installed there or >> only when people are working there? Well, he's you're going to bring the
tanks and engineers >> having all the time. >> Yeah, >> we have a lighting plan that we submitted to Natural Heritage. >> I would there there is a lot of wildlife back there. >> Yes. And and so we imagine they're going to comment and we'll address the lighting to
>> I guess what I'm asking is it sounds like most of the time there's no people there. So when there's no people there, can we have no lights on there? We have our equipment there and for safety and security >> that's
a security question that we have to >> but if there's no person there >> is the light benefiting can we just have the lights be like motion sensitive when nobody is there >> and then when you're there >> yeah we've looked at a couple of aspects
>> we'll be prepared we'll that'll be part of our solution we'll make sure >> I think we have a light >> this is what we would do in any cycle and and you know and I think we'd prefer that you know if there needs to be ambient lighting it's low intensity lighting versus the high intensity
lighting while you're you know you need the trucks lit while you're you're doing it but you know I don't think we want you know um the ski area lighting 24/7 >> there's going to be much lighting cuz we never know what's behind the building so we haven't seen years
>> and I haven't but we're going to make sure it's permitted this Um and then then the other concern is is again make sure you quantify the sound. Uh the that low the high pitch tone in the winter is
going to carry a little bit. So we need to probably have a some characterization of the the sound pollution from that. particularly maybe it's deep enough that it wouldn't hit the residents, but it'd be nice again to have a an overlay of where you know what the sound level.
>> I'm going to look at our cell tower bylaw that'll tell you what our decibb for the generators that service the cell towers probably be the same for you. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Yeah, our our permanent facilities, >> you know, that are much bigger than this, they have residences across the
street and in very close proximity. So these, you know, I think we can alleviate your your concerns. >> Yeah. When I was in Westford, the um the fans from the um
the lumber place that's on 27 was a great concern because of the how high pitched it was when they upgraded to the higher efficiency ones and the neighbors noticed it immediately. So again, those are the types of things that we new new sounds introduced, but also making sure that they're not the irritating type
that carries. >> So um >> sounds like you'd be ming just just for clarification. Are we looking for decel or are we looking for pitch? >> Um I think be sensitive to that when you come back to us. I don't have the
technical question formed yet. But you know, but you you understand what I'm talking about. So >> power is by >> and how you screen the noise and stuff like that. >> But very low frequencies tend to carry a long way. And the high pitch in the
winter, there's no trees that are going to stop it. So those are just particularly irritating ones in almost you have to watch what decibel level carries to what level on those. Um but we're very attuned to being irritated by those
>> and and I don't know what the technical specification of that is but >> sometimes more >> I as a resident of that area I would say that we're attuned to 495 being irritated.
you know, I don't want to dismiss, you know, concerns, but >> um >> Rob >> Rob rounds Juniper Road. I'm all for the Ford and appreciate the professionals and all the volunteers working on this, but I do find myself curious and
interested in knowing what happened two years ago and just to become informed so that there's not X years from now, another two years ago something happened. So I don't know where to go to
scratch that itch. My assumption is is because that's a commercial industrial area in where Sal is currently zoned that there was no permitting required. >> My guess is they went to the they went to the building inspector, >> right? The building inspector looked up
that that was allowed use >> and just issued the building permits >> and I know we didn't have wetlands surveys. >> There's no structure that said there's no structure. It's temporary. It's but still, you know. >> Yeah. I think I I think exactly what
you're saying, but still it does seem to me like >> somewhere in some part of governance of Littleton, >> maybe this is something that has to be raised by somebody in order to at least make us more aware and potentially that
awareness and consideration of that awareness would lead to some other things so that similar things can happen in the future. I recognize that's not necessarily your responsibility but sharing concern. >> Mr. Chair, I just want to commend your
admin to Hill who was the one who actually led the charge and said I know it's not really anywhere specifically in the bylaw, but I think it would be a good idea if we brought it to the planning board because they're most proficient at doing this. So, kudos to
you, Mary. >> All right, great. Can we uh >> can we schedule a uh formal hearing? Would you be ready with you know like a pipeline review? Um >> when would you be?
>> Yeah. When would you be ready? >> Based on our discussion today of the next meeting. >> Our next meeting is is in two weeks. So we, as Matt stated, uh, we had the natural heritage and then you're back at concom.
>> Yeah, the second before the concom again. So we we could have some things certainly more information by the fourth site plan review. We need the civil plans. We submitted the storm water application. So, we have a a lot of
civil plants, but I think there were some specific requirements for site plan review that aren't included in storm water permit. So, we might have to tighten those up. >> Do you want to give it to two weeks or is that too soon?
>> I don't I think two weeks is >> unrealistic to be honest with you. might be impressing speed to get uh >> July >> if you could put us on the agenda for June 25th and um >> well that's an extra meeting. >> That was an extra meeting. So how about
July 9th? >> Oh, a regular meeting. Uh >> we're we're up against we're up against um summer plans with the extra meetings. >> Okay. Um >> if that's the case, then yeah. Yeah.
And if we have everything that you could possibly every question that we had you could possibly answer at that meeting. >> That's why that's why I think June 4th might be a little >> if you get it all before us we can obviously send it to peer review and everything else. So by July 9th >> I was going to say July you have peer
review too. So that's a couple process July 9th >> and presumably for peer review you'd have to have engineering plans. >> Not much though. It's a parking lot. Okay. So, we we have those um >> reviews ready to go.
>> Okay. >> Not going to be a lot to this. There's no structure. >> No. Fire department's going to weigh in. It's not a whole lot. >> If there's any perception for rushing on this, I think to your point like
>> people in the community are going to be like, "Hey, hold the bus." >> People want gas. >> They're not going to get gas. No, I think we're I think we're okay. I It sounds like a question. >> Can we go now?
>> So, just this is where we were at in February. Uh >> I requested we'd have a site plan. We also have the pipeline design. uh our engineering is broken up in two different aspects. So we'll get both
sets of those as I'd expect of them. But um so we'll we get these drawings, we post them to a project page and um that's way the community whoever's interested can you know um weigh in on
this. >> All right. So we do have uh CII so critical infrastructure there's aspects we can't disclose death stuff like that. >> Um >> so everything you submit to the planning board will be public record. If there's
information that you're working on with the fire department then that don't have to submit that to the planning board. >> Oh okay. So that's going to be a permanence. So we've already applied for it. Um, we've applied for both 550 Kane Street as well as Campbell in preparation. Um, and then the captain
will archive the Campbell because it's not active. >> Can you do this with Westford also or >> Oh, it's there's no activity in Westford. So, they haven't required us to do any permitting. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no, no, not the permitting, but with the fire department. >> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. So, um, we we've been talking to them for months now. >> Okay. Um, so I will have to work out what we can and cannot. >> Sure. >> Including the drawings. >> I'm just saying this is what we will do with the drawings. >> No, absolutely. So, I want to make sure
that we're we're uh making sure you have what you need when you need it and not causing a delay. Um so what I'll do is I'll work on what we have now and then uh just work with the engineering firms because what you can see on the screen unfortunately probably small is a lot of
what we'd be doing showing fencing showing the location of the equipment showing the pipelines coming in and stuff like that. Um, so we just have to uh because it is public that's the only >> Yeah. And the the only request is the same one I made of is can you give us a
um consumer friendly version of that picture? >> You know how they did the sketch with the sketch overlaid on on the thing rather than rather than a >> in addition to the engineering drawing a consumer friendly one that shows it sort
of so that we can see it >> a little bit more clearly. You know, we don't need all the contour lines, you know. >> So, let me ask you, would this be >> something? Yeah, >> something more like that. but maybe zoomed out so that we have the context
of where the rest of the road, you know, and two one a zoomed in one and a and a context one so that we can see where it is relative to the neighborhoods and the businesses that are around there. >> Does this image work for you? Yes.
Although I think several board members were interested in extending the view to the south. >> Old stage coach road show some of that that >> and that would give a more complete picture of how empty that whole area.
put a maybe you know just a you know th00and foot line 2,000 you know something so we understand the dimension on it you know from like how far is it from your thing to I don't what's the in back of the gray square there's a
>> so 700 ft gets us to here >> yeah so if you could put like a 500t line or something on there just so we kind of know what you know >> would you prefer a view like this to show those contours or um
>> yeah so if all those get >> they can be separate drawings but I guess Daryl is saying more than view this view that's >> yeah we don't need the topography in it or or the other parts there I'm really interested in the whatever existing
roadways businesses houses you know >> daycare center >> great no great guidance thank you and that just make it easier for the us to digest it. Peer review will handle that you're you're 3 in off on this elevation or whatever. That's not what I'm going
to look at. But and then any audience members can then go, "Wait a minute. I saw Jeff's house, but I'm more concerned about my house. That's great. Where is that?" >> Um the Do you have Did you have any images of the installation at 550 Kane?
>> Uh we do. Yes. We really include those. Well, so the only caveat to that is we use vendor equipment. >> So is it different? >> It's just to give people a general idea. >> So if we hopefully
>> Yeah. And if you have pictures of what you are going to plan on using again, but it just helps us, you know, >> relate to it. Um >> Sure. >> versus the technical specifications. >> Sure. Yes. This this is the image that would be uh representative of our site.
Obviously, the equipment would be configured differently. Um but 550 King Street consisted of different equipment entirely. So it would be it wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison. Okay. >> Joanne, >> the things that you're discussing, would they be received in advance so we could
actually see them if they were last? >> Well, we would hope to get them to post. Yes. Okay. >> To post to the project page. Um, now that being said, do we have a time and a We have a date. Do we have a time? >> Um, we'll put that in the hearing
notice. >> You have to post one. >> Okay. >> That being said, thank you very much. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Cherry, did you have anything else to say? >> Do we have I'm sorry. Just the procedure. >> Do Do we have to see you again before
you can send the plans to peer review or can we submit them? >> No. Lauren is in the middle of all that. >> Okay. >> So, point of contact back to you. Okay. >> What I what I attempt to do is take some
time instead of 15 different emails, I'll try and get everything uh together as possible. So, >> sounds great. >> Okay. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Um >> that being the completion of our agenda,
do I have a motion to Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Great.