Afternoon everyone. Um we'll open the meeting. It is 12:02. Um committee members available are Bill Porter, Eric Manzer, Gary Wilson, George
Sanders, and myself. Um people joining us are Rob Rouse, Mary Lee Mercy, Annalise Taber and that is it and welcome. Um so our first uh so if we could we I'd
like to take um a topic out of order if we can talk about the Shake Lane project if everybody's okay with that. Um, yep. Sure. So, I know that um we had a discussion
um last month about this. Um, if if you have a moment um Marily, if you could kind of bring us up to speed a little bit, that would be great. I know that our um committee is a little bit um you
know, has few questions, but if you could kind of bring us up to speed a little bit, that would be great. Yeah, absolutely. So, first of all, thank you for having me. Um, just I'm for anybody who doesn't know, I am the project architect for the Shaker Lane School
project. Uh, due to the MSBA process being so compressed at the beginning, there are many town organizations that we really need to talk to and would love to talk to, but there just hasn't been time. So, I feel very fortunate that we're able to
have this discussion now ahead of town vote so that I can answer any questions anybody has. Um, I have had some correspondence with Bill Porter. He had some questions about just the uh
what actions were going to be taken to make sure that the building is as accessible as possible uh for as many people as possible. And generally we meet the codes but we understand that just meeting the code is not enough to
make this truly accessible for everyone. So every project that we do uh we're always looking for ways to make it more accessible to do as much as we possibly can and you know it usually is at no additional cost to the project. So these are things that we're extremely willing
to incorporate. Uh we're willing to talk to anybody and see what accommodations they would like to add. Uh, I am working with analysts to come up with sort of a bullet point list of the things that will be included, but if there's any specific questions about what could be
included or discussions of uh just how to do better or examples of what we've done on other school projects, I would be happy to answer them. Bill, do you have any questions that you would like to ask? I know that you were one of the um people.
Yeah, I got my No, I I had correspondence with everyone on the call uh previously since our last meeting. I got all my at least all the answers that I need for today anyway. Okay. All right. Great. All right. Yeah, I do hope to continue the conversation beyond this. Yeah.
Okay. Great. Um, yeah, I wasn't, you know, I was not our last meeting, but I did, I was able to watch it, so I I kind of got an idea of what, um, everybody's, um, opinions and ideas were. Um, you know, as of you guys know, I, you know, I'm on the select board. So, there were
a couple things that kind of struck me in that meeting that I I think I'm going to go forward with, um, on any future projects. And that, and that would be to always make this committee part of the discussion when we're either renovating or um, obviously building. um and not
just part of the discussion but almost it has to be on the checklist of committees to just you know to approach and discuss exactly what the needs um and ideas are for for any building that we work on. So um I don't think we're
behind, mark me if I'm wrong. I mean we haven't voted on this yet. So I don't think we're behind the ball on this. I think there's still a lot that this um this committee can add. So that's a good thing. But I it just it just made me think that future projects uh we need to be in the discussion right out of the
gate just to make sure that it's even feasible um that a project can meet the the needs of our community. So that that's really all I wanted to say. I I do get a lot of updates um from the school um the project. So, I I I do know some
of the stringent guidelines obviously that MSBA does put on things, but you know, after listening to Bill and Eric and and George, I there I know there's a lot more out there, things that I don't know. Um, for those of you who don't know, I'm a disabled veteran as well, and I have a I have a disabled um adult
son as well, so I that's been through the school system. Um, so I understand a lot of the challenges and I I I think I look forward over the next couple years really uh from this committee um to have
a lot of input on on what what our needs are and our expectations are of that building and so that I can also bring them back to the select board and you know from a top down approach. So but thank you guys. Great. Eric, do you have anything that
you wanted to ask or um bring forward or are you all set as well? Um, generally I think I'm all set. I um you know I uh appreciate you know the the connection and and the opportunity to engage about the Shaker Lane project.
I I know at last uh month's meeting you know I kind of uh shared that I you know I I didn't feel um you know completely knowledgeable on on the status of things and so I appreciated kind of having um the opportunity to learn a little bit
more. Um candidly my hope uh in today's or you know in um you know I guess our committee meeting today was to have a bit of a chance to debrief amongst ourselves as a committee just because I would like to more deeply understand
you know as I understand it like it's it's somewhat unprecedented um you know to for a committee to kind of rubber stamp or you know endorse you know any one project in um in any way. So, you know, I wanted to dig into that a little
bit more, but again, I, you know, I appreciate that accessibility is being factored into decision-m and it sounds like you all are are taking proactive steps, which obviously, you know, in on its surface I very much support. So, I'm I applaud that. But, yeah, you know, I
don't feel prepared, you know, I don't have any questions, but I don't feel really prepared to to make any more of a decision today. Okay, great. Diane, real quick. So I I think that discussion because I wasn't part of it in the earlier meeting, but I think we'll spare Mary Mary Lee and Anelise
that that part because I do think we need to to discuss a little bit more in detail how we're going to go forward with that. But certainly George, do you have any questions of Maril? Good afternoon to everybody. Uh yes, I'd
just like to make the comment uh from the time that uh I've been on the disability commission, one of the things that uh I fought for was that a lot of buildings and projects had taken place
in this town and there was a tendency to sort of kind of bypass the disability commission. So at the time um we had Mr. Mullen who was the superintendent of billing. Um, I
asked that uh the disability commission be put on the checklist so that we would have the opportunity from our mission standpoint to ask question that the
developer or whoever would come before the disability commission and tell us what they was doing. uh in terms of what they was going to uh do for that project and that um we also would give the
blessing when they come before the disability commission and letting us know exactly what they was going to do and that we was going to be checking throughout the building of that project
to ensure that everything was going the way that it should be and in according with the ADA uh requirements and u he said that uh he would and we had one element to come
before us and somehow that sort of kind of got lost. Many other projects went on such as the the library did I believe is the one that came through and then um when the
the center was built uh they didn't come before uh the disability commission and tell us what all was going on and what they were going to be doing and so forth and so on. And that's why that even at 36 up there, um, we were supposed to go
through and look and see what they were doing with park and wreck and the school department up there with regards to that building, making sure that things was in accordance with ADA and they didn't do it. So they just sort of kind of just bypassed us and and not do things
because when I went over and looked into the library, I found some thing that was wrong like the parking. Aren't there the stripes that was on the handicap parking space that should have been in place? And uh it was saying that oh they didn't have to do that. I said well where's in
the rag that says that that doesn't have to be marked down there. And then I guess the answer came back that it was sharing with I know about the sharing of the space but that was not what I was talking about. I was talking about there was one over
that was said handicapped with there no stripes in it. So I believe that it is the mission of this body. If public has access and going into a
facility, we have the right to be on the check off list before a occupancy permit is issued to ensure that they're conforming. We went in u
the point uh with the theater up there. We come to find out they were issuing assist uh order there to stop because the the width of uh a way into the
theater was not wide enough to handle the wheelchair adequately. But you know the state overrode and the state allowed them to contend. So we had the building superintendent
there which he gave them a uh cease and desist order and they kept working and we wrote a letter from this commission to the state and the state end up
ruling over. But the thing that we did, we said that if anything happened to anybody in that theater that it would all be on the state back and not on the town's back because we
did what we were supposed to do according to the regulation and the state taking an override on what we said and let the owner continue to build in that building in there. So I look at
it's not the mission of this commission to tell anybody that they can bill or not bill. If you bill and this government, yes, we're going to come in and we're going to inspect the
facility and make sure that you have things that are supposed to be in place. If it's on the outside and you have civilian that has access to it that come in. Yes, we have the right to go out
there and make sure that any person that is disabled or whatever the case is that you have things in place that's supposed to be in place. And that's what we tried to do with the theater there at the constitution there. and uh the state
went in and and they overrun us and letting the owner continue to build the building and do what happened. So I made sure I emphasized the fact that we needed to send a letter to the state and
tell the state if you override this. It is not if someone comes to sue it is not a suit that we are going to be a part of because we did what we were supposed to do and you are the one that's going to take the blame because
you're the one that went in and placed the override over what we said that was not right. So that's why I said that our position on our mission is not to tell somebody
you should build or not bill. Our position is that when you start billing, you need to come before the commission and tell us what's going to happen. Next, we get the opportunity to go in and see if you're complying and doing
what you said that you're doing. and before occupancy permit is issued by the town, then we go in and ensure everything is up to par. That's what I see the mission of this commission at.
Thank you. All right. Um, anybody else want to speak with regard to um what Marily has presented and talked about? Go ahead, Rob.
So, I just I'm disappointed to hear what I heard about the build no build statements that George just made. I continue to believe that I, as a resident, I look for the disability commission to provide for the disabled
community in an active way, not in a after it's done way. Um and and so yeah, I just want to emphasize that point that that I really look for an active disability commission
to advocate for the disabil the disabled community and I feel that it's irrefutable with regard to Shaker Lane school decision that failing to advocate the vote fail then
they can do it right we're delaying agree improvements and betterments that the disabled should be provided today, not 10 years from now, not seven from years. It should have been provided many years ago. And with that, I I thank you for
your time. But if you want, you can stop by and see us. We're happy to, you know, throw it together for us. I think uh Merrily, I think we're all set. I appreciate you coming. I know that um thank you for all you know all the both Eric and Bill had reached out to you and
um got the answers that they needed for the questions and um so if there's nothing else for Merrily I think that she's all set and um I mean you're more than welcome to stay Merrily but um I think we're we're good with with you
but I I would just like to add that regardless of whether or not you decide to endorse it. I believe that it is important for you to be involved and if we can help by passing along documents
earlier in the process for you to review and you are welcome to come to construction meetings and do walkthroughs and make sure that everything is up to par. I just want to make sure that that's out there and we want you to be part of the process.
Well, thank you very much. We appreciate that. Thank you. Look forward to working with you guys. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. So, um Diane, is are we going to be moving on to the next agenda item? Is that what No, no, we we're gonna as a group um
kind of as um Eric said kind of debrief. Okay. I just want to make sure there's an opportunity to continue the conversation. Absolutely. Absolutely. So um you know basically last last month we we did have the discussion and you know both you and Eric had said that
um you know you didn't know enough about the project and that um you were going to have um offline conversations and learn a little bit more about it and you know I know that um they were still looking for us
to take a vote um regarding the project and all that. So um you know we can open it up now to you know the discussion as to um whether we believe that at this point in time um we want to take a vote
or if you want to just debrief about you know what you've learned what you believe about the project whether we believe that we should be taking a vote today or um you know it's your pleasure. So, um, you know, either Bill or Eric, if you'd like to open up the discussion,
um, at this point in time, you want to go first, Eric, or I'll defer to you, but Okay. First of all, Gary, nice to meet you. Um, you I've been here 22 years, but I've only been at one select board meeting
and you weren't at it, so I've never had any contact you with ever seen you before. So, pleasure to meet you. um and had be on the committee with you. And um I want to start by actually agreeing with those both George and uh Gary's comments about how, you know, we should be more involved with all projects in
town. I'm new here, so I I kind of assumed that was already the case. So I'm sorry to hear that that wasn't. Um so I'm hopeful that maybe we can take action to get more of those things happening. Um, in regards to this project, yeah, as far as I mean, I I want to defer to I want to hear more from the rest of you uh in regards to whether we should take
a vote or not because you are seasoned veterans of this committee, this this commission. So, I I don't know, but I will say I did do some research. I did reach out and have um email exchange with Mary Lee and um looked over the documentation and weighed, you know, the
different options, considerations. I think, you know, there are certain projects in this town that um certainly in the past that might be a little bit harder to discern, but in this particular case, I'll at least give a little bit of my background. Um I've lived in the neighborhood uh for 22 years, so I live less than a half mile
from the school. I have two children who went to the school. Um I used to walk there and pick them up every Wednesday for six years of that. Um I'm also an educator myself. I've been in higher ed for over 25 years and I so I I teach I work closely with students in and out of the classroom
staff administrators including in the disabled community and assessing what goes on in education and what the needs are of that community. So um so I have some understanding about some of these things. Uh and in assessing it I you know I see there's challenges. I know firsthand the many problems with the
current situation of the school that does concern me deeply and I'm afraid I'm disappointed that that project wasn't a higher priority in this town prior especially when there's been other projects done that I would say it probably would have been a less priority. Um, I know when my kids were last there 8 years ago, it needed to be
done. So, I can, you know, I can only imagine the state of it now. And see, reviewing the documents, there's a lot of things related to our concerns that definitely show that. Um, the documentation certainly echoes a lot of things that are going on with everything from accessible bathrooms, parking, and all the sort of things you might
typically think of regard to facilities. Um, but I'm also really intrigued by the new designs and the what can be achieved, not only just with those types of things, but just the infrastructure and the safety. Um, anything that I'm looking at and and discussing regards to this stuff, um, I'm looking at from the
specifically disabled community lens, but anything as as we should all know, um, that's serves a disabled community, if it's designed and done right with universal design principles, it's going to benefit all. Um, and so just the, you know, as someone who lives right up the
street and experiences the dangers of, uh, traveling and walking through that area, the traffic all along Goldmith Street in and out of there, um, the access points for drop off for students. There's a lot of concerns there. Um, and so the new designs of the school address some of those things. They address
things that not just like basic stuff like ramps and things that are going to make the building more accessible for people to actually get in, but also foster learning. Um, so it can really benefit everybody. So I was actually impressed by what I saw in the designs and saw really um impressed by
the level of um commitment to looking at the universal designs beyond the ADA and some of this stuff. I I want to look at it more closely before I can comment further. Uh, but I know they work with a design firm uh specifically on some of these things. And I was uh as someone who's
also a designer and as a worked in a career as both an educator as an and an artist and designer, I'm I really appreciate some of the details that will really make that could take really improve the safety of the entire community and make it a space for all. And when we talk about students, because
I know that's been a lot of the focus of this, I think when we're thinking about accessibility of this space, we got to think about everyone who ever goes near that building. And so, um, That's including the the the faculty that teach there, the staff that go teach there, the parents that go to visit there for events and things like
that. And then anyone else who may use the space, whether the camps or other things in the summer. So, uh it's not just the benefit of the students, they're learning. It's, you know, what's always often overlooked and as a disabled educator, I'm in that position. Uh you know, the students needs are always tend to be the focus, but there
isn't really support and consideration for the educators who actually have disabilities too, right? So this can really help them do their work. So um I'm encouraged by it. I I do see that there is this is going to something that it's so bad that needs to be addressed. So it's going to cost unfortunately a
lot of money. Um and that that financial cost is a concern, but I I see it as a priority. So I will that's what I'll share for now. I'll leave it for I don't know, Eric, you want to pick it up from there? Yeah. No, and I'm uh I'm appreciative,
Bill, of of the depth of uh research that you've you've done on it. And you know, I I kind of had a sense that you you would have uh you know, done some due diligence here. So, I I do appreciate that as a fellow committee member. Um I think that coming into today's conversation, you know, much of
what has been on my mind and you know, also with appreciation to George for a bit of clarification shared earlier on, you know, his view of our commission as you know, the position of our commission and um really what the the mission of
this group um you know has been or or um you know should be. And um with that like I think a a big part of what I have been kind of thinking about uh has been you know more about like
you know I don't know how at risk like you know my understanding of the chances of the the yes on shaker lane you know have been pretty good like I I don't know like um you know how much our
endorsement and how much weight our endorsement would have, you know, if we were to, you know, um, you know, provide any sort of a formal endorsement for the project. Like I don't know, you know, where, you know, is that going to put it over the the finish line or like, you
know, I haven't had a clear sense of that. And I also don't know if there are other, you know, similar commissions in town that are similarly uh throwing their, you know, endorsements behind projects in this way. So, you know, again, it felt kind of unprecedented in that way. And so, I wasn't clear enough
on what the kind of the formal process has been related to this, uh, which is kind of what I was hoping to debrief with this group on. That's all I had, Diane. Okay. All right, Gary. Uh, yeah. So just kind of looking at it
um from a different perspective regarding endorsements, it is unprecedented um to some some degree. We have obviously when you get the everybody gets the town warrant in the in the mail a few weeks before town
meeting and each article is endorsed or um recommended I should say by certain boards and it's always the board that brought the article forward. Um and typically if it's obviously a financial article of any sort finance committee um
will be on that um recommendation or not recommendate and then the select board on most of the articles but not always on zoning type articles and things like that. Um planning board obviously if they have articles zoning it just depends where the article comes from.
This is a little unique. Um, I'm not going to say unique because we build schools all the time across the state, but um, from our perspective, you know, I was just trying to think what would the disability commission endorse um,
and I whether that ends up on the town warrant that says the um, disability commission endorses this project, I don't think is the correct terminology. Um, we don't even have to go as far as say recommend. I I believe somewhere in
here um either through the the speech um working with the school committee, we need to give them our recommendation that this committee, regardless how you vote as a citizen um or anything, this committee
um believes what? that this new building will be more accessible, safer, meet most requirements. Obviously, we're never going to It would be great if we could hit every single need, but um and I don't know how realistic that is at
the end of the day. We can always hope, but what that how much we believe that this building meets that need as opposed to the existing structure. That's kind of where I I think that needs to be spoken. And I somewhere whether it's at
at the whether we we have a speaker from our committee that just speaks to that very simple statement or whether we do that through the school committee who's going to have a presentation. Um or if you know the select board has a member that's going to speak. We're allowed
obviously to speak on any article. Um just to say that the we did consult with the disability commission. they believe what and it doesn't have to be an endorsement per se but it can be uh that this new
facility will meet um many of the requirements obviously the requirements of MSBA the ADA the minimum requirements for certain but also that we were we're comfortable with moving forward with the project because it meets some of the the
needs of our citizens and future residents and um educators So, it's tricky. You know, that's kind of that's kind of where I want to take this and how the board or the committee feels about we need something. We need we need our
group because we're being asked. Are we against it and not against the school, the construction of a new school? That's completely not what I'm talking about. Are we do we believe this facility would meet the requirements um going forward to educate our children and be a safe environment for all? Um
and that's kind of where I think we should come at it from aso and then that can be spoken through however we decide here. Now if we decide that we would like to be on any new building going forward on one of the endorsement or the recommendation
lines that go to get mailed out. Um that's a separate discussion that we'd have to I'd obviously go back to the select board um and say is that something that we want um and what are the parameters of that all new buildings all renovated buildings that were coming
to town for money money's for the taxpayer um what is that what does that look like when do we want you to get involved or is it just going to be simply we spoke with the you know the disability commission they uh believe this that this meets the requirement,
things like that. So, we can come at it a few different ways. Um, regardless, um, I'm definitely very intrigued. You know, just listening to George a little bit, it sounds like at the point there was, um, some probably some legality issues where we can't enforce certain
things um that are that go beyond ADA to private institutions. I'm going to I'm going to assume that's perhaps what happened there, that we were we can't give more than what the state is requiring unless we come up with a
policy through the select board that states the disability commission um will have um recommendations regarding public spaces to include private businesses that are open to the public. That's
something that I think we can talk about. that's later on. But it it just kind of was spinning up in my mind when George mentioned that that was an issue that I was obviously not on the committee at that time. Um so anyway, that was that. But that's kind of my two cents on where we go with the school
project and what you guys think is the best recommendation um and how we how we come up with some statement that can be read or a recommendation if that's something you guys want to push forward. I'll bring it to the select board.
George. Yeah, madam chair. Um my uh uh concern here is that um the people are going to make decision whether we build a school or we don't
make a or we don't build a school. But there's going to be a requirement if they say no because we're going to have to bring certain things up to coal in that building. So the school
department along with uh uh finance has came up with some figures as to what it's going to cost to do certain things there. And they threshold is that once we spend 2.73
million, then we're going to have to go and move all the students out of the Shaker Lane building, put them into modules. And at that time, they're talking about 22 modules. And I guess at a cost of 12 million and
to bring the school up the coal is something like about 44 million. So if you add the 2.7.3 the 2.73 to the 44 now we're at 46 almost 47. And with the new school right
now versus the new school we're talking about 50.7. So by putting three three more million with it, you can have a new school. So which would you rather have the rehab
or the new school? I believe our primary concern here is with finome and with the select board. We as citizens in here
should tell Fincom and it's the lake board, you need to make sure that this school that we built that you're going to include
those things that are required by law to the best of ability. putting into this facility and to sure that every person in this town can go in that facility
and can use that facility and not have to worry about something is there because they need that in order to use that. They're the ones that putting the money
out. They're working with the developers and the developers know by law when they build this building there are things that has to be in place in that building.
So the people that are managing these project is supposed to be working for the town here to make sure that these things are happen in this building. for this commission to endorse and say build a building or don't build a
building. I don't think that we have that authority to tell anybody to build or not to build. What we do have the authority to say is
that the things that needs to be in that building according to law, we're going to stand up and fight and tell you that you need to put those things in that bill. They need to be in the building. We need to see it. I don't think the endorsement of that
school is going to serve anything as far as getting what needs to be in that school. That falls back to Fincom and the Select Board
who initially put this on the horizon when they came back two years ago and asked for money to do preliminary studies and so forth and so on at that time.
and they put this money up and now we look where we at and the job that they have done to get it below the 100,000 mark down to 98.1 million
and to work with the state and they were thinking that they was dealing with the 29.5 and of course the state came back and gave us a blessing and gave us 38.2. So now we're down at the point now that we need to go forth
and tell the people this is what is going to cost you. Now, if there's anything that we need to be great and concerned with,
we need the developer to come in and lay the blueprints out and say according to ADA here, here, here, here, here, here. These are all the things that this school is going to have in it. Is there
anything that you see that we missed or we need to add? That should be the position of this commission if you really want to get technical about it.
That's where we should be looking at the blueprint along with the school along with the selectman along with fin because there's a cost involved with everything that you're going to build.
That's what we should be looking at and seeing if there's something else that we need to do. Yeah, George, I I like I like the way that you worded that because I think that kind of leads to probably not being having the disability
commission recommendation on a warrant, but a statement um where because we're sitting here talking in the positive, let's just say something happened where this board voted in the negative and what that could potentially do to a project, a
very important project. So it's it's a careful statement I think that this committee can come up with that either a select board member or the school committee when presenting can say the disability commission we we continue to work with the disability commission on
um making Littleton's schools not only um you know not only meet the ADA requirements but go beyond that because we obviously we always want to we want to be the beacon on the hill so to speak the Kennedy line But the so I think
that's something that we we can we can do and that's that's maybe what we try to generate here is something that that comes to that that way we're not sitting here we don't recommend because you're we're missing a parking space or it's we're working with this we're working
with the disability committee. We will continue to work with them through the next 3 years um to meet the needs of the community um and and some of their concerns and things like that that we come up with as a board over the next couple years because we don't know right now right
you right we see the design oh great then we can still talk maybe a little to that but at this point I would rather just have some more of a generic statements in our support that yes a new building would a um obviously meet a lot of the the needs
of a how many laws are changed since 196 when was the school built? I mean 62 or something. My goodness. I you know and those of us that went through Littleton on you know and had Mrs. Smithwood, if anyone knows that name, um who was an educator in
town in a wheelchair and the challenges that she did that she was an educator in town for 30, 35, 40 years, I don't know, but um those this is that this school is ready to certainly move on from that and become a place where we meet the needs
of not only that type of disability, but all so um yeah, let's let's come on. I'm now after listening to you, George, I'm leaning towards I see you, Rob. Hold on. I'm leaning towards not actually being on the warrant, but actually just having being
part of the conversation and forcing us to be part of the conversation right up to the shovels in the ground and beyond. And then the inspection part of it, of course, to make sure. Okay. I'd like to finish, Madam Cler. Yeah. Go. I'm sorry, George. I still That's right. That's all right. No, that's good. That's good.
I have no problem with that. The disability commission has always, and Diane can vouch for that because her and I have taken the opportunity to go and look through the schools and tell
the school department, you need to fix this, you need to fix that, you need to do this, you need to do that. So that is what the commission needs to be doing when they find that there are things or people call and said, "Well, I
had a problem with this or I had a problem with that." We go out and we check it out and say, "Yeah, we understand why." Just like going into the school up there at the high school, they had these uh block patio out there that tied into the sidewalk and they was
all tumble and bumble there. people could fall. I mean, it it was just unbelievable. And and we said, "Hey, you need to fix this. The curve cut up there. You need to fix this." And and they did.
I just think that, you know, if you get down to the nitty-gritty brass tax or something, you know, we need to look at the blueprint as to what they got in there and we need to say, you know,
either you need to add more uh what about here? I know there was things that we had looked at previous and we said that what about this? Can can you adjust this to make this more available for
somebody that's handicapped? Yeah, we can do it. That's not a problem. These are the type of things that if you really want to get to the nitty grid, let's look at the blueprints and let's make sure that we have what we
think wise moneywise that the town is going to put in there. Let's make sure that we have the max of whatever we can get in there. Go ahead, Rob. Briefly. Okay. Uh, Eric, I want to address your your point. Um, in the last two weeks,
the park and recreation commission was approached just like disability and they voted to endorse. The uh sustainability com committee was approached and they voted to endorse. Uh, I went to those two groups similar to this one. to date,
you're the group that I'm waiting to get an endorsement from. Um, I would like to point out that the expected case is that other endorsements will be coming from FinCom Select Board. The school committee voted last night to endorse.
So, I am accumulating, if you will, endorsements. I'd like to focus on the purpose of your request, my request for your endorsement. It's the town meeting report that Gary made reference to. It identifies and communicates using taxpayer dollars to the public that's
voting on and preparing and considering matters before their vote to be informed of who is recommending the article for passing. Hence, my belief that your view is very important to convey by way of history from because we've gotten into
some precedents discussion. I want to bring up that on May 6, 2019, article 8, item number seven, the group, a town building and space needs analysis working group was comprised and had had
basically everybody except disability. It had council on aging, library trusties, park and wreck, school committee, etc. had extensive involvement unlike the select board on June 13, 2022
created the uh Shaker Lane building committee that was heavily weighed towards fincom and school members. There was no park and recreation commission involvement. There was no sustainability involvement. There was no disability commission involvement. And I would
argue that that lack I'm not trying to throw a dart. it's at the select board. But I am trying to say that the public in the form of back in 2019 when you get an article presented that support by an
analysis working group that represents numerous constituencies of our volunteers that are working like you folks are pertaining to disability that it means something when it comes with the strength of a broad group that I
mentioned before. this case, the shaking lay building committee doesn't have that broad representation and hence I'm going out to trying to get others to recognize that these are the other groups that the select board or the school committee has
created and special CPAC for example has also endorsed uh the Shaker Lane building proposal. So I'm trying to convey and use the town meeting report in a meaningful way to inform the citizenry that are going to take this
on. And in that regard, I feel very strongly that not getting this passed and not getting all the organizations that work so hard on behalf of Littleton residents to not get those voices heard in the form of what is a taxpayer provided preparation for the town
meeting vote. I feel that's a very much a shortcoming if we don't get this done and get your endorsement in that town meeting report. So, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, George. I had something, too. But Madam Chair, go ahead. Uh, I would like to correct some
information that he just stated. Back in 2008, I was appointed to the town uh search for space to include, which was the the senior center. So, as a disability member, we was looking at the
former DCU building and we talked about what was available and what was in there that could help people that was handicapped there. So, I was on there as
a member of that board. So, the district hold I said 2019, not 2008. You you just went back and said 2008 on that committee that was appointed 2008. I think the record will reflect that it
said 2008. Regardless, I I think let's let's just remember that what makes this a little bit different, you know, some of the boards that um Rob spoke to um some of the statutory boards and elected committees. This committee is appointed
by the select board. Every one of us is appointed by the select board besides me who obviously is a but actually I am appointed by the select board because I'm a citizen at large. So that being said, this committee makes recommendations to the select board
and that's why I was kind of Rob and I I don't I hate to disagree with some of what you said, but the recommendation comes through the select board. the select board listens to this committee's recommendation and then acknowledges it in some way. And that's kind of what I would want to be
presented if there was a recommendation that was in the negative. It's something the select board would have to weigh and then go forward with um some of the concerns that the disability commission has and how we're going to address it. Um, so I I understand the endorsement of
all of these other um boards and committees, but what you said that doesn't mean they're going to be on the warrant. The select board hasn't even discussed how how much we're going to limit that because some of those
um smaller boards and committees. Yes, it's good to have their endorsement, but to have that recommendation on a town warrant from from the school committee, planning board, obviously select board, and the finance committee. Um
those are the those are the key elements to this these type of projects. So all of the other boards and committees feed into the discussion um and a lot of it through the select board because we're taking the recommendations. Now maybe the select board hasn't been great at
cultivating information from this committee and that board and that's a shame because that's something that should be done like I had said on every project to the point where I think we can put it into select board policy. Um, I just think I'm going to have a
struggle getting the the select board to put more recommendation committees and boards on there because what happens is we're going to open it up to what about the small the bicycle pedestrian committee that doesn't agree. Now we have this
great beautiful article$und00 million article and you have the smallest committee saying they don't recommend it because X and and that could that's very dangerous and that that's why I I I worry a little bit about that and not that the disability commission is in comparison to those but
I just think that we are a recommendation board to you know let's let's cite certain things let's get it in front of the select board. Hey, this like George said, this sidewalk needs to be fixed. Get it. Where'd you go? Did you go in front of the school committee
or whoever that whoever you went from listened to this committee and this board and and went charged from there? Um, so I I'm really torn on this one, Rob, on how we want to go with with the the recommendation. um whether it's
something that like I said before we just talk through uh the select board on this one because they are the appointing authority of this committee. Did you have something to say? Yeah, I just wanted to say that the
drawings are available so if anybody wants to look at them I can pass that along. Thank you. That would be great. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. I think that um madam clerk if I may through to to the last speaker
um on the drawing uh ma'am um uh merely Lee is is do you see in those drawings that uh as far as the stuff that's required on the ADA do do we see these
things uh listed out in there showing based on this uh facility what needs to be in place and that we're going to do this and so forth and so on. And uh the MBS the the Massachusetts Board of uh
schools authority has approved uh this here. This is what needs to be in there because uh the Massachusetts uh uh school board of authority controls a lot of things about when you build a school,
you got to do according to what they said. They said that the space has to be this amount. You can't say it's going to be this amount. Well, then they ain't going to give you the money that you're looking for. So I'm I'm just wondering do do we have these eyes dotted and te's
crossed in regards to that ma'am? Yes absolutely. One of the requirements of course is that we tell the MSBA what we are doing for accessibility and the absolute bare minimum is that we meet ADA and we meet the MAB and we meet the building codes. And uh we'd like to take
it a step further because we know that the builders cannot be relied upon to know all of that code and to meet it. So we always have specific sheets in our drawings that list out all of the mounting heights and the clearances and all the other
requirements for that so that they're in the drawing. And I've I've seen this happen in the past where if they are building something incorrectly, we say you're doing this wrong, rip it out and do it right. So, um, anything that we decide upon, all of those requirements,
plus anything in addition that's not necessarily required by them, if they're in the drawing, that's, uh, a legal document. That's the contract that the builder has to build to. And if they don't do it, we make them make it right. Thank you very much. Of course,
there's the answer. Okay. Okay. Um, I think we um we have a lot of great information that we've discussed here today and a lot of great recommendations as far as um, you
know, we should probably like Gary's, you know, recommendation as far as, you know, not so much, you know, stating that we're in support of this this project or not in support of this project, but
actually having a mission statement as far as you know what we are actually looking for. I think that maybe Gary seeing how you had such a great idea, maybe you should should perhaps um you
know come up with that statement and you know um well I'd like to you know I think it's important because you know Bill um and Eric you you kind of got some of the concerns or the additions maybe beyond ADA because it's easy to come up and
make a statement. It's kind of obvious that the building has to be ADA compliant, right? It's no new building is going to get made. So, what what is, you know, does it meet the disability commission's um accessibility needs and requirements or is it close to
it or are they working with us on it? You know, that's the type of thing that I think we want to be able to the positive messaging we want to get get to. Um, and we haven't even discussed, you know, the select board if we're speaking to this article because it is, let's not forget, it is a school
committee article and then the finance committee is going to speak strictly to the finances of the article and how what how it's going to affect your tax bill and everything else. Um, select board doesn't have to speak, but I believe it may be necessary. We are allowed to, so it may be necessary for us to have a
statement regarding um, any of the committees or commissions that are not on the warrant that recommended it. just kind of what the statement is from the disability commission and what the statement is from I don't know Rob listed off quite a few others that may
not be on the thing and it why they recommend it so to speak or why they're why they're positive about the facility. So it just creates a more positive messaging. Wow, all of these committees were consulted to some degree and this is a real a real thing that they're they're going to
continue to be part of the process. So that's more important to me than anything is the positive messaging if if that's what this committee obviously if this school wasn't meeting any of these requirements. You don't want us to be coming to the select board and saying yeah this is no this is not a good space. It's not
going to work you know. So uh but yes I can help create something but I think Bill I'd like to know what are some of those outlier things that we want to see in it. um or or Eric or or or I could work I could work on um yeah kind of if you want to work on a draft I'd be
happy to collaborate or give some additional context um you know I don't have I hadn't dug up the specifics in preparation for this meeting or looked that closely um but yeah okay yeah I mean I I think that we have um I
think we have enough time because we have another meeting before the the town meeting um to be able to draft that for our next meeting um and put together and you know present and you know
will to to all of us. Yeah. Go ahead Rob. One moment. Sure. Unlike most town meeting decisions, I think the part that's overlooked is that this is also requires a ballot question. No. So while Gary approach and the
approach that I think you folks are inclined to be moving towards works for a town meeting discussion and consideration, you fail with regard to communicating with all the people that received that town meeting report in the mail in prepar, you know, in preparation
for the vote. So Rob, you know, I I beg to differ with you. This commission is making a decision based on this commission's decision um in the fact that we are looking to give a positive message to um
and anybody can watch this meeting and anybody can hear our discussion and the discussion that's being made here today is a positive discussion in the sense that we're you know we're not I and I'm not going to speak for the
entire group but I think that We are hearing that um the people are still not ready to make a an endorsement one way or another for this project, but we are willing to make what it sounds to me a positive
um feedback to the select board to be to be a representative of of this commission. and we are going to put something together um to be heard at our next meeting and that will
be presented to the select board to be heard at and people can hear it. People will watch this meeting. People will watch our next meeting and they'll hear what we have to say. And because it we've said it last time and we weren't
ready last time and we're not ready today to to make a full endorsement of this um of this project and um I'm sorry that you go ahead. Regarding the ballot, um there's wording on the ballot obviously. Yep.
When is that locked into print? It's it's gone to print. It has gone to print. Y and is it is it is it a simple yes? No. That's correct. Okay. So there's no real It's a yes vote is this and a no vote is this. Yeah. Okay.
So there's no So all of your town meeting aspects won't be conveyed. You're maybe going to get whatever the number is at town meeting, but that's a small subset of the broader community that's going to be voting, you know, in the ballot question. And that's what I'm
trying to convey. It's the same It's the same qu It's the same question virtually that is going to town meeting. It's a yes no vote. I I know your concern Rob. I understand you're because you're going from probably 300 to 400 voters at town
meeting to 900 to,00 ballot. That's just the way that the ex except that 900 will ever ballot that will vote but rather to how many is the count Diane? 4,000 households. But so, so let me ask you this, Rob. If
I So if this board, right, or any other board, the the parks and wreck board and the sustainability commission, if it if they even if they did endorse it, right, if that's not going on the um
on the town meeting report, what what is the difference? What is the right difference? So you're correct. So, so what Gary isn't aware is that I've presented earlier this week an email to the chair of the select board to be making these
points with regard to the town meeting report that's mailed to all homes allows voters to determine whether they want to vote or not. Therefore, it's influencing their their opinions and informing them
and to make a decision while the ballot question is going to go out. The Shaker Lane school requires a yes at both the town meeting and that ballot question. And the ballot question is naked with regard to any aspects with regard to endorsements. And therefore, the only
document that really matters to communicate to all the eligible voters in Littleton is the town meeting report. So, I'll be I'll be working strenuously at the September 22nd meeting of the select board to influence them to list
the endorsements so the public can be informed. Absent that, I think that while people can watch this meeting or watch the select board meetings, I think it's a far cry from the audience that should be served by taxpayer dollars of
information. And with that, you've been very gracious with your time. I want to convey I'm I'm disappointed with what I'm hearing, but I appreciate the consideration. Go ahead, George. Thanks, Rob. Uh, Madame Chair, U. Yep. I think the the most crucial thing
that happened here today is the fact that uh you brought representatives to this committee that has answers to
what we as a body is concerned with. And Mary Lee just a few moments ago went through and explained what's there and how this is done and and how they reported to the state and
the state making sure that you know there are certain things going to be there and she's saying that we going to be watching this and if the contractor is not doing it right we're going to tell them rip it out and do it right. I mean,
we have somebody on our side that as they're building this that is going to make sure that these things that's been approved and accepted by the state and by the town that these things are going
to be done. So our job becomes now to look at when they tell us that this is being done is to verify yes you did carry it through. You did do what you say you're going to do and is there.
Thank you. Okay. No, it's it's an important it's I know it's an important topic and it's it's something that you know Rob I will say Rob is a huge proponent and he's he's a huge advocate um for the for the school
project and from a from a financial standpoint. He's gone to the meetings. He he sees why it's so important. I'm trying to really focus the lens when I sit on this committee from what we are trying to do. Is this new facility
meeting the requirements and the needs of Littleton residents and its educators and the students? Um, I don't want to say I don't want to say that that is doesn't carry votes because maybe it does, but I also think as a
voter in town, my expectation is that that's a fact anyway because if it wasn't, we'd hear about it. We'd hear about this. We'd hear this committee when it was in the negative across the board saying no, don't build this ferris wheel, you know, nobody can ride it
except, you know, a few people or don't. So, I I I think it's um that's a balance here, Robin. This this discussion isn't done. I don't want you to leave here uh in a negative light. We're we're going to craft something. And it just um I
just don't know how much of what this committee does by endorsing a building. Now, if you said this building was um the disability commission headquarters or something, sure, we're going to endorse. But we're we're just accepting
the fact that this building is going to meet the requirements and that they're going to continue to work with us on all other needs that, you know, this this committee from through residents that come to us um through our own experiences that we think the this facility needs. And I I we've got to
come out with the positive way to do that. And I I just don't know if that's by putting the disability commission on that on the warrant. But I it is re I do recognize your concern with the you know three times as many voters are going to be at the ballot potentially that are at
a town meeting. Yeah. If I can just add to that. Uh I really appreciate what both George and Gary what you said because I've learned so much from this. So I'm I'm new here. I'm learning a lot and so I totally agree with, you know, I respect your positions and I it makes a lot of sense what you're talking about going forward.
Um, and speaking to, you know, what this can do. I think, you know, when you have an endorsement that's just a rubber stamp or yes or no, I think this letter, this whatever we're going to draft can have greater value if you really consider it. And the fact that it's going to have language saying not just yes, no, it's we, you know, as you just
stated, uh, things about, you know, we we they're going to work with us and, uh, we see that they have whatever we're going to have in there is going to be, you know, have detailed information about that's going to be really valuable to the community. And so if people want that, if people are concerned about
that, they'll be able to get that information. I know like some voters just if you're talking about we got to get to every voter, many of those voters that you're trying to get to aren't going to look at that or even look at they're not even going to pick up the document that comes in their mail, right? But if it is important to people in this community, uh I would hope that
they'll seek that out and find, you know, seek us out to find out our opinions or see it at the when it's presented or wherever it can be. Right. So um I think this could I I like that idea. uh of at least being able to find some way that it's appropriate for us to
share our feedback on this project. Madam Chair, I just want to say one last thing. Sure. With uh with with Bill and Gary uh going to work together with and try to come up with uh uh some language here that uh
Gary probably will uh uh speak at the town meeting. Um, I think that it will be good for Rob to come back at the next meeting and and see if he concurs. Okay, sounds great.
Yeah, I don't think it's going to quell Rob's concern of the ballot side, though. That's something we're going to have to we'll discuss on a Well, the law is that you can only put so much stuff on the ballot. I know. Yep. It's already been, you know, it's already been That's why I asked. I didn't know.
It's already been approved. Um it you know uh it's the two and a half override question and it's already been approved by town council and they're the ones that virtually drafted it and um so yeah and we we appreciate all you coming
to us and and realizing that this lack of history uh there and the fact this is sparking some interest in us connecting with other groups. Uh we're grateful for that too because we should be more involved in these projects and and this particular one probably sooner, right? So maybe next time around we can get
involved sooner so we can have more time to to think these through. So it's not it's not being pressed like hey you got please give us a decision because we don't have enough time. It's like well could have come to us sooner too, right? So we're we're all learning better ways to work together and I'm glad these conversations are being had.
All right. All right. It is 10 after 1. Um uh Eric, do you mind if we push those other two items? I was going to suggest it. I'm actually late for my next meeting. Yeah. All right. Um, Madam Chair, look, can can we can we
approve the minutes? Yep. Yep. Has everybody had a chance to look at the meeting minutes? Yeah, I've read them. Okay. All right. Can I have a motion to approve? I make a motion that we approve uh I don't have the date right now of the
two. I guess August and June and June minutes. Seconded. All right. All those in favor? I I I I All right. All right. They have been approved and a motion to
I make a motion that we are join at this time. All right. George has made a motion. Do I have a second? Second. All right. So, Eric. Um I Sorry. It's okay. George, yes. Bill,
hi. Yes. And Gary. I. And I'm an I. Thank you everyone. I will