is the meeting of the Littleton Historical Commission on uh Tuesday, August 4th, 700 p.m. I'm going to call the meeting to order. I think that we'll start out with the historic markers since we have some
things going on with that. Andrew, you want to tell us what the latest is? >> Uh, sure. So, um, I talked to the gentleman uh at Swenson
and, uh, he's fine with us ordering two markers. Um, and, um, the delivery fee is the same, but it is uh, a onetime delivery fee for the two markers. So again, if we do two or three more orders of two markers, it'll be 355 for each
set. And uh and he uh got a picture from Linda of I think it's the marker down on the on the common and he basically said we were ordering roughly the same thing. So um he didn't seem to have anything >> on the common. >> But yeah, you know the the granite one
that has the bronze on it. >> The meeting house one. the meeting house >> that's on concrete. >> Okay. There's a picture you sent him that looks like a >> I sent him >> something. >> I thought I sent I'm not remembering. I
think I thought I might have sent him that one, but just so he could see the plaque cuz I was wondering how if the plaque would attach okay to the granite and he did say yes. He thinks so. >> Okay. Well, we're we it appears we'll be ordering a pressure split piece of granite,
which he didn't seem to have any concerns about um putting plaques on. So again, there's uh there's basically it sounds like this this is kind of a thing where they they they just put some
um I don't know maybe metal bars or something and they just squeeze really really hard and it causes a fracture and then it splits along the line. It's so it's rough. It's not smooth. You could have it like a gravestone where it's cut
and polished which would be like super smooth. Uh the other option is there's a um manually distressed option where they do the same pressure cut but then they actually go in with chis chisels and hammers and they actually
um bate the surface and that's really rough. And he says it's common to see that on the sides. uh it gives you this really kind of lumpy bumpy kind of thing. But um again, he didn't um didn't recommend that on the front, but he didn't seem to have any concerns with
what we were ordering. He also said that um there's a communication that you had had about drilling into them. And so it it is drillable. So he recommends that uh the DPW drills into the face to put
in some sort of a mechanical attachment. I remember there's screws that come with the plaques. Big thick screws. >> Yeah, >> they did that on the concrete once last year. >> Yeah. Uh so he was okay with that. Um Swenson uh did not recommend we hire
them for delivery. >> I mean for installation. >> For installation, sorry. Uh yes, for delivery, yes, installation, no. stating that um uh the the advantage that they have is they do have a granite lift,
but um they would require a a someone from the town to be with them at all times at the site and also they don't do any site preparation work. That would all be on us. So he basically said if you're going to have like the DPW out
there anyway, you should just ask the DPW if they'll >> So have you talked to the DPW that installation? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I talked to Stephen Janelle, uh, really nice guy. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, and he basically said that, uh, the DW is more than happy to take care
of it for us. Um, he asked that when the, um, order is placed and we get a delivery date that um, he'll have to work on that because they'll have to have people at the site um, to facilitate delivery, but it will be
delivered to the DPW. uh we let them know where it goes and they'll schedule the work. Uh and uh they will dig a hole that's at least three feet deep. They'll fill it in with crushed stone which they'll compact and
then they'll place the marker in the in the compressed um dirt and crushed stone. And uh and he basically said that uh this is something the DPW is very capable of handling and very comfortable doing this work and is happy to do it.
Ebie Lisa, right? What's that? >> They know of Ebie Lisa. >> Yeah, they're between 6 and 700 lb according to the um guy at Swinson. So, >> does DW know that? >> The DBW knows that. Um and uh the DPW
has heavy equipment. They also have to dig a hole. So, they're going to have to have heavy equipment to dig the hole. Um the only other thing I did learn I think is um so the DVW um so so so the guy from Swanson said if the DVW doesn't have granite lift to use uh straps
basically high high tension um fabric straps. So DVDW has these straps I guess. So, um it sounds like they'll they'll um bring a front end loader or Bobcat of some kind and strap them on and put them
in the ground. So, >> I'm sure they use it for for granite curving and all that stuff all the time. So, yeah, that's great. >> Yeah, the DPW seemed very um again, Steve Janelle was great and he basically said, you know, we're happy to do this work. We can certainly handle it. This
is kind of within their scope. Um uh I asked him about getting him the crush stone. He said, "No, we we have a supply of crush stone delivered by the town for town purposes. This is considered a town purpose." Um I talked to the guy at
Swenson about what to put it in and he did not think it needed to go into concrete. He thought it could go into crush stone. So the DPW said, "You know, I think crush stone would be fine as well and uh we're going to bury it at least 2 feet." Um, so sounds like the
crush stone will drain the water because the only issue you have is you're above the frost line, so it'll it'll heave, but uh it's not likely to fall over. They'll be 6 and 1/2 ft long, so it'll be buried uh 2 and 1/2 ft, so 4 ft will
be above ground. >> That was great. Um, we did place the order as far as I know. >> Oh, good. Do we know that? >> Huh? >> Do we know the delivery date? No, I was going to ask you. Okay. Do you want me to follow up on that? >> I I can do it, too. >> Call Bob.
>> That's fine. Yeah, we'll we'll call Bob and uh find out when they're coming to deliver it. >> Make sure he got I think he got the order because Michelle sent the PO. >> Yeah, that's all he said he needed was the PO attached to an email and he'd be off to the races. >> All right. So, if you could call and see
if he got it and I'll work on that, what the delivery date will be. >> Yeah. And then the DPW will arrange the delivery and then they'll set the the um install date. Uh cuz the other thing I asked was like Dig Safe. So they prefer to have uh Dig Safe called
because >> Dig State I guess has a window. Uh you have to like do your project within a certain number of days after Dig State has marked the property. So they did not want us calling >> cuz they want to get it on their DPW schedule. then they'll work back call
dig save make sure it's within the authorized dig window and sounds more complicated but again I got really um I felt that uh Stephen Janelle was very good so I have no concerns >> right
>> so I think we're going to pull this off actually >> yeah I think you're right that starting out with two is a lot going to be a lot easier for us than starting back with seven >> well I did ask him um his general because again he is really nice. I said,
"So, uh, you know, if this goes okay, we maybe order two or four or five more." He's like, "Yeah, you know, like this rolling." He seems to like the rolling process. So, it seemed like it was fine. So, >> that's great. >> I think summer's easier to dig holes. So,
>> that's for sure. Yeah. In the winter, they couldn't do it. >> I noticed today I was driving to Ayer, you know, right before that big traffic circle on the left hand side before the uh dealership there. >> Yeah. There's a new I think it's a new business. It's like reclaimed granite. >> Oh, wow.
>> And it's all like old curbs that come in and they just sit in there a lot and they can they're trying to like repurpose them. >> Wow. >> So, I think it's I think it just opened up. So, I'll I'll look into it a little if that's an option. >> Gee, maybe that'd be a lot cheaper if it's reclaimed and granite. >> Yeah,
>> I'll look into it. >> Cool. >> Very cool. Yes. >> So, shall we look at your photos? >> Oh, sure. I emailed them out to everyone so everyone can look at them in advance. >> So >> I didn't actually bring them but or my laptop for that matter. >> So I have my laptop now. I have to
remember how to do this. Oh, I think if I I have them on my laptop, but everyone has them. >> Should I try to put them on the screen? >> Sure, go for it. >> All right, I'll see if I can. >> I think I got to join that meeting thing and use the >> Oh, I'm not connected to the internet. Why is that?
>> Um, all right. I think go on to the guest. I go >> Well, anyway, so the DPW requests uh like a file, which I attempted to build for for us. >> I'm sorry, say that again. >> The DPW requests a file like I tried to
do where they go. So that's what we're >> You check the check box for connect automatically. It should do it going forward, right? If >> Hope this works. Probably will. All right. Good. So
um so I have to promote myself. I hope this works too. >> Let me see how I do this. Uh >> I think you join the meeting and then you promote yourself. >> How do I do that? >> Uh it looks like you you need to join
the meeting on your laptop, I think. Right. want to try and do. >> I don't have an invite on my laptop. I don't have an invite on my laptop, do I? >> I don't have anything. >> Huh? >> I think I have invite.
>> Not sure how to do it. >> Yeah. So, somebody has to join the meeting and then on that on the laptop promote yourself. >> Just a standing zoom link for this meeting. Is that >> thought it was, but now it's it's expired. So, not >> uh
damn. >> No, you you probably got to do it on on your laptop. >> But how do I do the meeting? >> You just got to find the link. >> I don't have a link. >> Chris is like, "Oh, >> they gave That's why they give us this computer to sign in on here."
>> It's only agenda. >> Except there is a way to do it, but I just don't know how. Is it on the town website? >> I'm looking. >> Maybe. >> I was going to say the other thing you can do um is you can disconnect the HDMI port from the town laptop and just put
it in your laptop. >> Then we don't get recorded, I think. Or is that just for visual or? >> Yeah. All right, let me just try this. >> I think the owl's recording. So,
>> yes. Uh the owl. So that's just is that just audio? >> Uh audio and v video, but it's not the this video. >> Should I just All right, >> I think that I think that >> Let me just see if I can do what she suggested. If not, I'll try to
>> calendar event. >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking up here. >> Yeah, it's not there. We're just >> It's not there. >> No. >> Yeah, it is. Oh. Oh, you mean the >> link? Sorry. Isn't there >> not that excellent? >> All right. Maybe I'll try what Andrew
said to just put the HDMI into my >> Yep. Yeah. As long as you don't touch the laptop. >> There's no link here because All right. >> Don't Don't touch the town laptop. Just take the HDMI link out. >> So, I have to figure out which it is. >> It's the that one right there.
>> This one right here. >> There you go. You just put that one over there. >> Looks like it's on that side. >> There you go. >> And if this works, it'll be amazing. >> Codes.
Okay. Can we are we up? Yeah. >> Well, that was easy enough. Yeah. >> All right. Now, let's find the other photos here. So, so Andrew, um, what were your thought? Your thoughts were we may put
it somewhere else than what you and I have discussed. >> I think, um, there's actually on the, uh, on the photos that you got on Google, it looks like there's a lot more room, I think, between that sign and the granite thing that's on the ground.
>> Yeah, but there's not that. I was there. You were there. No, >> no, I wasn't there. >> Oh, it's only like six feet, >> right? And then is that sign coming down? >> I don't know for sure. They're He said they're getting a new sign. Now, I don't
know whether he meant just like a new thing to put on this old sign, but I can't imagine they're going to keep this old sign. >> I think the new signs are post. >> Could use some help. Yeah. >> What? >> I think the new signs are posts, right? They have like the placard that hangs on them, you know?
>> They're like like mailbox posts, but they're higher, right? And then they just have that like sign that >> Oh, yeah. >> hangs on them. >> You mean for the new conservation land ones? >> Yes. And they kind of they kind of go sideways. >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah, they look nice. >> Not picturing it, but since we don't
know for sure, I think we better assume that the sign their sign may take up this space cuz we don't know. >> Yeah. So, they're not doing like a kiosk or anything. >> I don't know. >> All he said was that they're getting a new one and Yeah.
You want me to go do another photo? >> Yeah. I mean, I just went there and took some general photos so that I think as a group we can kind of get a general sense of where we wanted to go. >> So, when I went there with Tim, who's the conservation um administrator, whatever they call it. Um, and this
photo that's up there now. Oh, no, that's not the right one. Oh, yeah. Wait. Yeah, I guess this does show. So here there on the on the ground as as I've mentioned to you and this photo
here shows you there's a horizontal 10- foot long concrete we think um >> slab there >> what they don't know we don't know >> they said if you want to use it use it but we discussed this last time we
decided we weren't going to use it that we'll get our >> I'm not sure how you'd use that >> I don't know lifted. I don't know. >> Yeah, >> I don't know. >> Um, so this picture shows the end of that
granite slab and their s the conservation commission's sign. We can put our plaque. This is what I talked to Tim about where they're between those two. There's about six feet between there or maybe Yeah.
So hopefully that's enough room. But if you you know Andrew took some other photos so we can see if there's any other place to put it. Where where exactly was this? >> That's the other side. So that's just so there's a sign right there. That's the new style sign that is up there. So
>> Oh, they have the new one there. >> Yeah, I guess they do. >> I'm trying to figure out where this is up there. >> I feel like that green that old green one was for like a map or something. Like a a trail map or something like that. And I >> You think they'll just get rid of it? >> They're going to put up a new sign. But
you mean Oh, you think this is the new sign? >> I wonder if it is. That's been there for a while though, hasn't it? I don't know. >> So maybe they're getting a new trail map or something. >> Or maybe they're going to do the kiosk >> cuz then usually then they you >> put the you know, they usually put one
in there and have other things, >> right? Let's assume they're going to do that cuz he didn't say, >> right? I think uh those posts are I mean the sign again has um mostly returned to the earth but I think those posts are okay. So I think they could put the
kiosk cuz the kiosk that they use is kind of the same thing. It's just two posts and you know they put some beams across a little little leaf on there. >> So Andrew where can you try to explain? >> So that's just the opposite side of the trail. So >> now when you say opposite what do you mean by opposite? >> So if you're standing so where the other
photo was >> Yeah. The green sign's behind you. >> Okay. So, >> and that's just the other way. So, that's that. So, there's a fire road there, right? >> I always envisioned it if you go back to
the one of that pieces of concrete that's on the ground. Uh that that one. I always envisioned the sign like if we were moving it from that other location to be like to the right of that that's sort of like kitty corner and sort of looking over at the mill rather than
>> being at the foot of the trail head. I don't know. Just seem like if it was over there then if somebody parked they could easily walk over and take a look at it. >> Can you can you say all that again so I can get a better sense of where you're thinking of? >> So basically like to the right of that big granite to the right of over to the
right of it. It's sort of like looking over if you're if the sign was there, you'd be looking over like a little thing of water and you'd see the mill in front of you if you were looking at it. >> Yeah. >> And you it would be closer to the street. >> You're thinking like right around here. >> Yeah. Like over the right even a little
bit more. If I had a street view, I could show >> I think when when I was there with Tim, there wasn't much space there because there's a >> there's water and then there's a ridge on top. You're thinking on that ridge. >> Yeah. I don't I was just thinking over if it was it would be sort of separate
from the sort of trail parking area, you know, >> if there's room that's a good idea. >> Take a look at them. >> I think Well, I'd have to get permission from the conservation commission. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um and then DPW would have to look and
make sure there's they could install it in that spot. >> Sure. Yeah. I I What do you guys think of that as a different spot, not right next to their sign? >> No. Yeah, I'm in I'm in agreement with Chris. I think obviously where it makes
sense to see the mill. I think it's still being in that this look, you know, off to the right. I think it would still be easy for people even if they're parked and, you know, still like, oh, there's a sign. I can still walk over and see it. I, you know, wouldn't be too far away. I
think people would It's definitely better than where it is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Anything that we're No, that's for sure. So, you think people would get go walk over to it? It's not that fun. As long as they see it there. >> I mean, yeah, but that also like if we
did in the blue, it was nice and >> I mean that's >> And we do have this. We do have the plaque already, the blue plaque. All right. So, I'll look into that with Tim to see if that might work. You can look into it with DPW. See if they think that
would work. that up. >> Oh, yeah. I think if we propose, it sounds like uh they they're looking for us to tell them where we kind of want it, >> right? But it I think they have to deter deeply asked them whether it's installable in that spot because Tim and
I both thought, >> yeah, >> maybe that's not such a great spot, but you know, I'll go look. We'll look at it again. >> Um there didn't seem to be much space there, but definitely happy to go look again. Yeah. >> So, this is where the Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, there's like this little area there where there's like a there's the trail information and then there's >> Is the trail Is the Is the trail right here? >> The trail's to your left. >> To the left. Okay. >> Yeah.
>> All right. So, so we were thinking of first putting it here, but now you're thinking there's room here. >> No, I just I just wanted to get perspective. >> All right. >> I have street view up. If you want to give me the HDMI cable, I can sort of it'll give you >> Okay, let's just go through his photos
for a sec. All right. So, we already looked at this. >> So, there's the trail head where the yellow eight is at the trail. >> So, this is the spot that Tim and I looked at to put it, but >> you know, certainly if you guys if we find a better spot, that's fine. >> Uh this is now what's
>> what we looked at, right? That's the other side, right? >> Of the trail. Yeah. >> And then this is just another >> Yeah. >> view. Well, but but but you can see that when you drive up there's the cement thing and then you got their green sign and then you got their black sign and then you got the fire trail sign. So
there's like a whole bunch of comcon stuff. >> It' be better not to put it there, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. That's the thing. And that's >> that's the rock on the other side. >> Okay. Okay. That's something else. >> Yeah.
>> All right. So, I think we know what we're looking into, right? >> Um, and then you want to show something on yours. >> I was just going to show the street view. Show all that stuff. Um, so yeah, the the rock, the trail head,
the sign, and then that granite slab is right there. I was thinking like somewhere in here if it fit. >> Mhm. >> Excellent. Yeah, there wasn't much room there, but >> street. Oh, that's the I'm glad you said that actually cuz there are setbacks that we
would have. I mean, and I don't know what they are. >> If you could talk to DBW, Andrew, and ask them what the setbacks are cuz Tim from the Conservation Commission told me there was a setback. >> Um, I think he might have known what it was.
>> Was that newish hanging sign around the other side? Because that didn't that seemed pretty close to the >> Yeah. Right. >> Too far back. >> Right. That's probably 4T in. [clears throat] >> And I don't know what you measure from. You have to measure from the right of way or something.
>> Telephone pole is also about that depth in. See that right there? That's about the same. So that's probably potentially your setback. >> Okay. That doesn't look too bad if that's it. >> Right. >> So go. Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. Let's see where we where you're talking about. Okay. So
>> yeah. So if you put it right over there, it's probably fine. Yeah. >> But again, you have the >> it's probably wetlands or something. >> It goes the wetlands are down, but the this is the guard goes over the wet. >> That's why there's a guard. They end up
in a >> I might say there is and you live close to here, right? And you might know if >> Oh, there you go. If people park there and kind of like park off the road, it doesn't look like they do that on the other side. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. >> Like it's kind of like a pulloff. >> Two cars can get in there. >> So if Do you know what I mean? >> I don't think Yeah. I mean that's about as far as pull over, but like I don't think that it happens too much cuz there is more of a
>> go over there. Two spaces there. Two cars can. >> Yeah. I'm only by here like early in the morning, so they're never cars. So, I don't know if it's as like >> um popular. >> No, I think I've seen maybe two, three cars like
>> any any any given time like in that. >> Yeah, I think as long as we put it like behind that little tire mark area. I think that's fine. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we'll find out about I'll find out from Tim what he thinks the setback is. If you could find out from
DPW what they say the setback is. >> Yeah. >> And um >> but we're talking about the right side of the whatever that is. Cement thing. >> Yeah. >> What is
No one know. >> I think it's granite. I don't think it's cement. >> You think it's granite? >> It looks like I do not think it's granite. I'm sorry. Sorry. I I do not think it's cement. >> You think it's granite? >> Yeah. >> General to repurpose that. See, that's what it used to look like. That's what
this doesn't even still look like. >> Really? When I had words? >> Wow. >> 2007. >> Wow. >> That's what it >> I didn't even know you could do that. >> Yeah, I didn't either. >> Like the older ones. >> Yeah, it is back to it. But like
>> it wasn't a map. It was a a marker. >> It's always been a marker. >> So, I think that's the original. That's the sign that's there now. It's just it's in really tough >> so Oh, so where were you saying like show us where you where you were thinking?
>> I was thinking like just right in here somewhere just so it's like >> Yeah, that that would be a better spot. I agree with everybody if if it meets the setback, >> right? >> And if if the water's not in the way and the >> Yeah. I mean, you look at where the the
uh light post is there. I mean, power >> post is there. So, um >> All right. Well, let's find out and make sure. >> Well, yeah. So, if you're >> to the if there's a power post right there. So, if you're to the left of the power post, you theoretically wouldn't be in a wetland setback, right?
>> I wouldn't think so. There is a bridge there though. That's my concern. >> Okay. Well, >> technically there is 50 foot buffer that noticed their Anyway, we need their >> Oh, yeah. You need a 50ft buffer, but I think we have that probably. The good
news is I think the DPW would would be the best people to ask. >> Ncom coming like >> we have to come anyway. >> We're not just we're not just doing that. >> Okay. All right. That's great. I like that spot, too. >> Yeah, me too. I think that >> general front general front setbacks are
measured from the legal boundary of the public way, whatever that is. DBW would know what that is, right? Um freestanding access. Well, it's not freestanding accessory signs. Oh, that's front yards blah blah blah. Safety and
placement. Oh, this is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. All right. All right. So, USDBW I'll ask him and we'll figure out the setbacks. All right. So, are we anything else on this marker
except you're also going to call Bob and see if >> if if the order is being filled. Call Bob. >> If they need anything for the order, it's not being filled, let me know. >> Yep. Got it. >> Got it. Okay.
>> All right. >> So, um I think I'm going to leave it. Oh, can I have that back? Because I think for Parley I may put up something. I mean, not for Parley, for the other one. >> All right.
>> Indians. >> Running Indians. as John was saying that she'd like a new sign. >> A new sign. >> Um, so let's see. So to segue into the praying Indian one. Well, let's do the other one first.
>> Um, >> yeah. >> So if you open the document they sent the word file that has the pictures in it. >> Which word file? Uh there's a there's a a word >> it was attached to I think that same email
>> separate email the document. Yeah. >> Sorry. It showed up in my same cube. >> Yes, same cube. Right. >> All right. Let's see. >> It was right next to it. >> Um placement. >> There you go. >> Is that it? That's it. >> Now you sent a revised one. I didn't see
>> cuz I added your box in there. >> Oh, I see. All right. Let's see what you >> That's your box right there. But I'll change it because now we're gonna go to the other side. >> As long as we can. As long as TB and Jim say Tim say we can, we'll go to the other side. All right.
>> So for the praying Indian one, it's going where it is now. Right. >> I think so. I think it's a very good noticeable spot. >> Yeah. I mean, as long as it stays up and you know, it's I mean, I think there's always like, as you can see, it's a little
overgrown in that picture and then there gets a lot of snow that like big pile of snow there. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Well, isn't that why it got knocked over? But didn't we think it was cuz snow pile? >> They did. Yes, we did think it was a snow plow. >> Um, so I
Yeah, I obviously we can't ask DBW to go out and do more cutting, I guess. Well, I was going to say this is one I think that that if we got somebody like the garden club or something involved >> and uh you know I I don't know if we can
uh put down some um landscape fabric and just you know get some uh stone, put it over the landscape fabric, hold the weeds back at least for a couple years at least. So I think you'll be able to like keep it open right in front of it. So when you come along, you know what I
mean? You at least see it >> and we could talk to DPW about plowing because they're going to be installing and we can talk to them that please don't plow it down >> plow it down >> because in front of the uh the quarantine station one that one's like
all flowers and stuff who does that a great question >> because it's not really on anybody's property right >> no somebody definitely like takes care of it though the one on P road someone takes care of. >> Yeah, >> that guy who uh you know that long
driveway there, there's always like plants and stuff out front of there. So, >> that's a great idea. I think it would look nice, right? >> Yeah. I mean, again, if the garden club's looking for something to do, if not some Saturday, we'll head on over there and
>> Mhm. Girl Scout project. >> Girl Scout project. Pub Scout Project. >> Yeah, >> that would be like >> cover it in snowfalls >> in what? >> The snowballs. So that no one can plow around it. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, the other thing about
this I sent so about the So, this plaque we have we have the bronze plaque for this site for the for for the Nova Road and um New Town Road. We have the bronze plaque and the wording is set unless we
decide to change the plaque which we probably don't want to do at this point. So, um, I sent you the word. I sent you a file that had the wording of the of the plaque that's going to go here. And then I sent you in the same file or
Yeah, I think the wording that's on the other, which I'm glad Andrew brought this up. There's another praying Indian sign. It's a wooden sign right there. >> Yeah. Actually, I think the Girl Scouts made mention of it. What they say that they they want to do something?
>> No, but they had said um because we I think we were talking about it and they said it was on the Dr. Ed something trail. So I went over to the Dr. Ed something trail and sure enough there it is >> right across from the dog lake. I'm like >> Yes. Actually you know where it is. It's
right next to the lower barn, I think. >> Yes. Across the street from the lower barn. It's a big park not parking lot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right there. Yeah. So, that's the sign. It's a big wooden sign. It's not in good shape. >> Nope.
>> So, we have two options. We can have a big wooden sign with more words or we can switch to a bronze plaque with less words. So, that's something to think about. So, I sent you a text of what the current
um language is on each of them. I'm trying to find that. >> Banda, how old is that sign? How long has it been up? >> I have no idea. >> 2011. >> Oh, is that right? >> The big white one. Yeah.
>> 2011. All right. So, all right. So the plaque that's the bronze plaque that's going on to Nishoba and Nag Road reads up here the top one here it's short and sweet. We all agreed on the
wording. We ran it by the Nishoba Indians in town and they we incorporated their edits. Okay. So the second one, [clears throat] the old wooden sign at the orchard or in that across from the lake, the pond is this. This is the
current wording. I had trouble with the current wording. First of all, some of it's not accurate. We've done research since then and some of it's not accurate. Chris, thank you. Did chat GPT. I had some trouble with the chat GPT versions as well. Mhm.
>> Um, so what I sent you, and I don't know whether you guys had a chance to look at it yet, cuz I sent it this afternoon, was I took a stab at the language to revise the current language. Uh,
here we go. So, if we could just look at this maybe I mean, this is probably too long even for that long for the big wooden sign, right? >> Do we know how many words we're going to have? >> No. Oh, we Well, we [clears throat] can
obviously look. So, I guess Yeah, let's take a look at that. Um, another option. Uh, the Girl Scouts were they just working with the >> society?
>> No, with the um markers or were they would they work with this too? Like would we want to do some sort of QR code >> here too to cut down on words or is this even duplicative if we're going to essentially put more words on a QR sign
>> at the first spot? >> I'm not totally sure how we envision that project going. >> Well, we weren't even thinking about this sign at all. >> Fair. >> I forgot this. I mean, I knew it was there because I walk there a lot, but I wasn't really thinking and I always say, "Oh, we have to replace this." But I
never thought about it much. >> Um, >> 111 >> what? >> 111 >> words. Yeah. >> What? >> 111 words. >> 111 words. Okay. [laughter] For the old old sign. Yeah. 111 words.
Okay. Um, and so the new one >> 12 >> 120 something >> 122. >> Okay. So, >> so just a tad longer. >> Yeah. >> Or 123. >> So, let's see. So first of all let's for the moment
start with are there any changes or you would make on my what I what I'm suggesting any additions deletions different information >> I feel in the very end we're saying uh
for surviving Nishoba Indians descendants of the Nishoba Indians who lived here and I just that feels redundant May maybe just saying it too close together. >> I had the second to last sentence just
seemed a little bit wonky. I my edit was I changed it to after this land was sold to English settlers. They established the town of Mishoba in 1714, renamed Littleton in 1715. >> Can you say that again? >> Where which where
>> the one that starts with as land. >> Okay. So you're saying >> I kind of switched things around and said after this land was sold to English settlers, you could either say they established the town of Nishoba or the town of Nishoba was established in 1714 renamed
a little tin and >> sorry after this land was some English settlers then what >> you could kind of just leave it as that. It it just it seemed a little bit clunky and there were a lot of dates. Um so I don't know. So you're just saying after
this, >> you could say after this land was sold to English settlers, they established a town of Mishoba in 1714. >> You could also leave it as it is. >> Uh would you say incorporated versus >> is that
>> it was incorporated in 1715, not 1714? >> Oh, >> it wasn't incorporated in 1714. >> Well, then why do we have our little It was renamed Littleton in 1715. I'm guessing. >> So, but we had our tsentennial in 1714.
What does it say? What what is what is our >> I don't know >> in 2014 we had our tent. >> All right. >> What are those? >> After this land of self, they they should know >> they established Oh, I see. They
established what? the town of Nishoba or not even say that >> Nishoba plantation the plaque right there >> and does say 1714 >> officially incorporated in 1714 >> it does all 1714 town of Littleton 1715
>> oh yeah it's got both dates >> that's interesting >> interesting but we >> confusing is so I mean okay so some towns towns were founded a certain year and then were >> that's right that's kind of what this Right okay So,
>> so is this the home of the showa plantation? >> Yeah, this area. Yes. Yes. >> Sarah Dubble Forest. >> No, I I mean I I'm thinking like uh it would be kind of cool to put like a like a granite marker there and say, you
know, the show plantation 1714 right there. Just have it carved. >> Well, the shoelation was started in 1654. Okay, even better. >> And then we could have the Girl Scouts do yet another little marker. Mitch will
give us more [laughter] time to figure this out. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Um, so, so yeah. No, I that's a great idea. So, granite marker. Maybe not a PL. Well, we we'll decide that later. Granite marker that says Nishobo Plantation. Whatever.
>> Yeah. 167 1654. It was No, it's actually 1654, but then to decide when it stopped is a little weird iffy because
Anyway, we can we'll deal with that. All right. >> So, they did they get rid of the H on Ashoba when they made it town of >> the Yeah, the the the name of the Indians has an H. They're the Nshoba Indians. They still have an H. They live here. There's some one of them lives
here now. The name of the Indians has an H. The name of the town doesn't have the H. >> Yeah. >> And the name of the roads and the Shoba Valley doesn't have an H, but the name of the Indians has an H. >> Very interesting.
>> So, going back to what Elizabeth was saying, >> do we want to have a short short text? I mean, do we want to have two plaques or just one >> one granite marker with the short plaque and then have a QR code with more
information? >> You can certainly have we can certainly have the sign remade, right? Modern langu modernized language and have it remade. >> I mean the wooden sign. >> The wooden sign. >> Yes. >> Though again, you know, you have you have that area in front of the parking
lot there, right? Where you have the you have the sign for the conservation land. There's nothing that's stopping us from putting a grant marker out there that's saying, you know, Michelin Plantation. I just think that'd be kind of cool just because if that's really where it was,
you know what I mean? It's like here marks the spot. >> I like that. >> I mean, you don't see that sign unless you go in to the parking lot and you start >> Oh, you're saying have the grinder marker out further near the road. Yeah. Right.
>> Oh, yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. I think if markers can be seen from the street, it just garers more interest. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> So you're So I mean we're just I'm just exploring all the options we're talking about. One is to have a granite marker
near the street that just says plantation blah blah blah >> brief. >> Yeah. And then we another option is to also have redo the big sign with more updated wording or have a grant have a bronze plaque like we're doing with
other ones instead of a big wooden sign >> do QR code and then it gives you it brings you >> that's it can even bring you to that sign and people can read it on the website if they're >> I uh just I guess because I've never walked there. This is at the head of
like a walking like conservation land walking trail. >> Yeah. >> Um >> is there a kiosk there? I'm wondering if we should be, you know, like what we did at Boundswood that we should be kind of commandeering more space at these kiosks
>> for this kind of for exactly this reason of >> having the small marker out there to attract people, but then for the people that are, you know, obviously getting like no one's going to read this as they drive by no matter what. Like, >> right. Actually, sure.
>> Um, so for the people that are that are going, I'm wondering if we should all like be be kind of more cognizant of where has the kiosk that we can take some space and put more information because like and I'm I'm fully of the I
completely understand why keeping things brief and everything, but there's there's also just time I'm like I'm getting kind of tired of shortch changing history and like not [laughter] >> Yes. >> not sharing the full story. I don't know, >> right? Like I feel there's like there's a lot more you can go into. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> And so you know where that sign is, you can stand there and read it. It's definitely at a place inside the parking lot just before you start up the trail where you could read the sign. >> I didn't know it was there. >> Yeah. No, I had no idea. And I guess I've never walked.
>> I walked there a lot. It's really nice. And the sign is in really crappy shape >> and overgrown. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um I don't know if you noticed that, but it's sitting in a brier of thorns. >> So my poor eyesight's not going to
>> That's right. They're going to get hurt. They're going to get hurt. >> It's a pretty big sign, though. >> It is a very big sign. >> Read it pretty, >> you know. It's actually, I think, one of our better signs because it is it's so big and prominent, right? So, >> uh there's really no reason why we
couldn't um deploy those. The thing is though is a granite a bronze on granite will will last more than 15 years, right? >> Oh yeah. Last much longer than the wood sign, but we wouldn't want to put that much. >> We're not going to have a huge
>> bronze plaque, right? But no, it would be much less information. >> 500 lb block. >> So that's the trade-off. Having less information on a bronze plaque or to keep a wooden sign. >> I'm also not sure how we would remake that sign. Why mean the material?
>> I don't know. I mean, can we make a sign that babe? >> You could answer question. I'd rather do it on PVC so it would last longer. But >> if it's wood, it might be a little bit more difficult. >> So why do you say we you don't know if
we could if someone could make that sign? Why do you say that? >> Well, cuz I didn't want to volunteer Chris. >> It's a lot of little letters and tougher. Those are a little bit more difficult. So takes time. >> 122 words cursing you. >> Yeah.
>> Well, >> to dwindle it down a bit. >> Yeah. Well, it's it's an option. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um what are people what are people leaning towards a wooden sign with more text or bronze to black with less text? >> I think we do both. I think we put a
bronze black at the street. I think you start there and then QR code more information and then you know down the line you can do the big sign. >> Can you put a QR code on the wooden sign too that links to the same place and
that way you have two chances to >> grab? You can do that. Oh, >> sweet. >> Okay. So, it sounds like most you are leaning towards less text. However, I'm kind of leaning with Rachel in having fuller text so that people can because this is a spot where people can stand
there and read it and not have a problem with traffic or anything. >> Yeah. Right. >> You know, when you're coming up or down the street that from the street, >> no, you have to be in the parking lot, >> but you could put less text there and still have the QR code assuming assuming there's service. >> Right. >> Right.
>> But for people who aren't going to use the QR code, you know what I mean? nice maybe somewhere in town like here to have more tax. You won't have to do it everywhere, but this is would be a good spot to have more text. >> Yeah, I agree. I agree. >> I'd probably recommend this. I'd probably remake the sign. Leave it just
where it is because it's really a nice spot and have Chris make a QR code on a smaller sign that you put just underneath it. >> Yep. >> On this >> on the on the wood on the ground. You got the post. Yeah. So, so if you have
this sign, we do a new sign, what would the QR lead you to more information? >> Yeah, more information. Sure. >> Okay. And the Girl Scouts can help with that. >> I was going to say, are the Girl Scouts is there plan to do the research or just to take research that's already done and do something with it, make it accessible.
>> I haven't been able to connect with them too much, but I I have a feeling it's getting the actual QR codes and then linking them to Carol's new website. >> They were going to do some research. I could be wrong, but I thought they said they're going to do some research at the society,
>> right? >> And society could help them and do the actual QR codes. That was my sense. >> This would be an interesting [clears throat] one to do research on. Um, and to your point, to not short change
>> the Native American women. >> Exactly. >> All right. So, we've made progress. I don't think we have to make final decisions right tonight. But that's good. All right. So, I think I will put this
at the right. So, okay. So, um, any updates on the house signs program? >> Uh, I went over, uh, my wife and I went and met with John. We sat, we sat with
him. I love his house, >> Jonathan. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Great house. >> Awesome house. Um, so he showed us that and we sat down. He kind of gave me a a once over on how the whole the whole process works. and I reached out to the
IT department to get the new the the application to go to my email and to another one that's like part of the commission. Um, so I think I just need to confirm that they did that and then >> you able to log into that email?
>> I haven't tried yet. Okay. But I'll give it a shot and then >> but it'll come to me too. So I'll see them. I'll just monitor it and then um >> Well, if you get one, you can always ask like it's it's I it pulls up on my computer. So, um
>> if you want like a tester in the front. >> Yeah. Um and then I can even do like a fake one just to confirm it. And then what was the other thing? Um >> the one person who wants to sign. >> Yeah, I just have to get that email
address from Jonathan and I'll just pass him a little bit. I will give that to me. >> Okay. Um, in terms of outreach and the awards ceremony, I'm just about to send the select board an email giving them a heads up that we'd like to do this and
will they are they willing to do it at the meeting. And after they say yes, I assume I'll contact the awardees and ask them when they can do it. Um, awesome. So, member updates and project updates.
Um, there's one thing if you all remember from the notsodistant past the DIY house farmstead. Remember that we went there and we did the house. >> Yeah. >> So, this is the latest. I don't think this is a surprise to us, but uh this is
from the affordable housing trust. I got it fairly recently in July. The affordable housing trust is about to issue an RFP for development proposals for the 5acre site and the farmhouse. The affordable housing trust trust has reduced the importance of saving the
farmhouse because our belief is there is that there is no practical way to save it. The RFP request allows flexibility including separating the house parcel and selling it. But our assumption is that the house will be demolished. I think the selection process to find a
developer will take some time with some with room for for discussions. The RFP is with town council for a few more changes and final review. If we the historical commission have further thoughts or ideas or requests to save or remove certain objects, we can contact
them. Um people's thoughts about that? Well, it sounds like we have to impose a one-year uh demolition delay. Really? Absolut freaking >> I mean, again, so you execute what is
really a >> I mean, we we we've talked about this, right? I mean, it it's an unfortunate situation where, you know, the developer came in, bought a large chunk of land, subdivided it, built a whole bunch of little mini
million-dollar houses, and then, you know, you got this beautiful original property, right? And so, you know, it it it could have been uh sold when he had it, right? Could have
been flipped at that point in time. it had upgraded utilities or whatever. It was really good shape and then, you know, turning it over uh to uh affordable housing just it doesn't make sense. That's not how you preserve historical properties,
>> right? But that's the the use case isn't valid. >> Well, I think that's a good point because the affordable housing trust now has the property. Sure. So um I mean
>> it is going to be affordable as a site. So you know the question is I mean you want to do a one-year demo delay. Well, again, my my thought is simply this, which is the fact that it's an incompatible use case, right? That's not
that wasn't our call, right? Somebody somebody else thought that this was a good idea. Uh, which isn't isn't our job, right? Our job is to uh exist to protect the things that don't have a voice that um can
potentially go extinct. And so this is just another example of a property in Littleton that when it gets inconvenient, we take them down. So I think uh our job is clear. It's it's regardless if it's the town or developer, whomever, I think our our
position has to be clear. So >> Well, yeah. I mean, I guess my feeling is we can save everything. >> No, I think that's a fair uh argument. uh we should try to save what is reasonably saved, right? I I think that
the the issue we continue to have is we uh we get involved uh after there's been a period of of willful neglect and that makes it tougher. >> Right. In this case, there's certainly neglect. >> Yeah.
>> Right. And I think to your point, we can't save them all, but that's also our job to try. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so the question is is uh were diligent attempts made to sell the
property as is to preserve the house, right? Or has the decision been made to go to an RFP where demolition is absolutely assured? And that's I think where I kind of go is uh
you know you can't save it if you don't try. >> Well the RFP request allows flexibility including separating the house parcel and selling it. So the RFP does currently include that as an option. So it's still in there. >> Yeah. But they're thinking that probably
won't or that if it's they're thinking it'll be >> again you have you have a problem with market economics. Right. >> Right. >> Because this house >> is never going to be affordable housing. >> Right. And that's what they've been thinking all along I think.
>> Well, but again their job >> right >> is affordable housing trust is to provide affordable housing and that's not our job. >> Right. So, >> so I guess at the moment the RFP includes
possibly separating the house parcel and selling it. >> So, do we tell them that would be our reference? >> I mean, that's fair. >> And then if that doesn't happen, we might put on a demo delay of one year.
>> I mean, obviously, we can't put anything on until something has right. You know, I think >> I think there's also a little bit we are jumping a little ahead with us. Yes. >> Well, they wanted to let us know, you know, they were trying to keep us in the loop. >> That's really nice of appreciate that.
But at the same time, it's kind of it's >> we don't know what's going to happen. It's not really >> okay. >> Kind of a we have to wait and see. >> I think I think I'd reply with and say the Littleton Historic Commission's preference would be that the house is preserved,
>> right? preferentially preserved in any future transaction that you plan to execute >> and just leave it at that. I mean >> our position well at least that's my but I think that that would be the fair position um that they should try to
preserve it. >> Any other discussion? Um so the um so last last meeting we talked about the mill building how they are going to demolish it and I don't know what you
what you want to do about that but um they're planning to put affordable housing there and they're planning to have a park and we brought brought up and I think we really should push for having a um display with photos and text
about the history of the mill. >> Um >> and a very large granite marker in the middle of the road. >> Right. Yes. So I'm going to talk to the guy, one of the Leoni guys, the Morgan
who was here at our meeting a few weeks ago. We're going to talk later this week. I'm not sure why he's calling, but it could be about the tunnel house. >> I don't know. Um, but I'm going to bring up the mill thing and that we really wanted this a historical display at the mill building
>> and a granite marker. >> And a granite marker. Yes. >> As a matter of fact, there may be a 10 foot long chunk of granite. >> Yeah. [laughter] And we know
>> very tall that I may happen to know where where it is. >> An obelisk. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Like an obelisk would be a great addition. Uh you know actually if you
are going to put a park in and it be as a centerpiece, right? I would say that uh it would be kind of cool uh to have some some sort of a I don't know. Um I'm trying to think the the foundation is uh
is it um block? Yeah. Is it block foundation? If it's block foundation, which it could have been at that era, they should take the largest like one of the corner blocks and take that and stand it up in the middle of the park. Uh because then
you at least have a piece of it. >> Didn't we want like the like thing or didn't look like something we wanted them to? >> Yeah. >> And Chris, I liked your ideas with the West Act and um
>> what's it? What was it? West. >> Oh, forget. >> What were your What was your idea? >> They did a They redid like this uh shopping center in in West Actton that was uh
>> it's a great shopping center. >> Yeah, >> you can basically live there. >> But they basically took like the old homes that were there and like repurposed them into what now is a shopping center. So, it looks like the old homes, but they're u you know,
obviously refurbished and look much newer, but they tried to like preserve sort of the historical like aesthetic and >> um incorporating that into the new shopping center. I thought they did a great job.
>> And there's a in in there is a whole like museum showing how they did it. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> In which building? True West. Uh, you know, upstairs from the coffee shop. I mean, there's a coffee shop there. Like, if you go in
that main section, there's elevators and then there's stairs and it goes right up. Yeah. >> So, it's on the second floor. >> I've never been up there >> cuz I've seen artwork up there, but I haven't seen one. >> Yeah. Now it's Now it just shows how they did it like step by step. >> What is this? True West. What's it called?
>> Uh, it's in Westing. >> There's True West. There's I go straight for the ice cream shop. I bypass the historical photos apparently. Um >> there's Yeah, Westside. >> Westside Crearyy. Uh Active Coffee House >> like yoga place. I don't know what it's
called. >> It's where uh what's the seafood place? >> If you go through Weston, it's where all the stuff is. And I think that's a nice like sort of precedent that is set in like taking a
really careful consideration of >> what was there previously. >> They did a nice job there. >> Yeah. >> I will mention that when I talked to Morgan this week on Friday. >> Yeah. So this um interesting thing I was
just thinking about the Derky farm. So does that I assume a proposal for uh affordable housing would have to go through town meeting. >> Not even sure because it was about town funds or
>> I'm not sure. Okay. Um, I think we're up to meeting minutes, which as you may remember, or Chris added at the end, which I thought was a great idea. Um, a action items by responsible person. We listed people and
each of person's action items. So, I thought that was great addition, Chris. Keep everybody on >> ones. >> Yeah. >> So, if you have the meeting at minutes,
do you have any edits to the one I sent you all? any Phelps, any comments on the minutes? Yeah. >> Yeah, looked good to me. >> So, that was from chat GPT, Chris. Pretty much.
>> Pretty much. >> Well, pretty good. >> Yeah. >> So, I make a motion we accept the minutes as written. >> Do I have a second? >> I second it. >> All in favor? >> I.
>> Okay. And we did pick our next meeting date, right? >> I believe we did. September 9th, I think. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, that would mean it would be October. >> Oh, no. >> Second week, right?
>> I have October 14th. >> Yeah. Okay. I got to travel the week before. So, >> week before. >> Yeah. The seventh. I'll be away on the 7th, but I'll be in the 14th. So, >> is the 14th good for everyone else? >> Luckily, it's far enough. >> Yeah. Right. We used to do that
actually. We used to do like two and a two ahead. Right. >> Yeah. >> Life happens. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. Anything else from anyone? >> Okay. Then I will make do I have a motion to adjurnn? Moved.
>> Second. Second. All >> in favor? I. >> Okay. Meeting is adjourned.