So, I'm going to call the meeting of the Littleton Historical Commission to order. Uh, Wednesday, July 9th. Um, I think we'll do the two internal administrative items first that are on the agenda. One, I want to talk about
the new commission, new prospective upcoming um commission members. They're not appointed yet. We have two. One of us is here, Chris Dalen. Yay. Um you submitted your application, right? Yeah.
And uh my understanding is that Chris will be appointed by the select board on July 14th, which is their next select board meeting. How do I know this is on? It's got a little green light on it. It's not. Should I press it?
Think it's on it. I don't know. It's on. I think it's on. I think it's on. All right. Um and then No, that's it. Oh god. All right. Yes. Well, wait a minute. It's recording through that. Okay. All right. Never mind.
Yeah. Um, and also we also have another member, Elizabeth Mubarak. Um, and she also will be appointed, I believe, July 14th. And she couldn't
make it to this meeting. She was going to come, but she had other previous plans. So, she'll be at our next meetings. Um, and then it's a new fiscal year, so we should make appointments. Is that what they're called? Appointments, I guess,
to the different positions or offices or whatever they're called. What are they called? Officers. Officers. Is that what they're called? I don't know. So, um, do I have a nomination? I nominate Linda Stein for chair of the
Littleton Historical Commission. I second that nomination. Uh, all in favor? No, you have to ask if there are any other nominations. Oh, I'm sorry. Are there any other nominations? Sorry. No, that's good.
I guess not. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. Um I can I make a nomination? Yes. Yes. I would like to nominate Andrew Watt to be vice chair. Do I have a second?
Second. I don't know if we require seconds, but I'll second it. Are you willing? Sure. Okay. Um, are there any other nominations for vice chair? All in favor for of Andrew W being the vice chair? I
nays. No. Great. Um, was Andrew Samarco previously? He was Andrew Samarco was previously. Yes. Does anyone want to make a nomination for clerk? Is that what it's called?
I re I nominate Rachel as a third clerk. Someone else do it. Yeah. Yay. One more time. How about How about on a temporary basis until either Elizabeth or Chris get oriented?
Yeah, we got we we got to convince Chris to go through with it the next week, right? He knows better, right? I have a second. But, you know, a second. Rachel, are you willing? I mean, I know you're busy. I know, but we're
kind of desperate at the moment. Um, I mean, yeah, until somebody else. Okay. All in favor? I Are there any other any other nominations? I forgot to ask. I was going to say, I mean, she does an excellent job. No, I do not. I actually submitted the
minutes in years to the town. Years. We're being recorded. You know what? Okay. So, we we are appointing everyone voted yes, right? Or in favor? Yes. We're appointing Rachel to be the interim clerk or whatever. What is that
what it's called? Interim clerk. Uh until such time as we can get someone else to take over the job. Rachel's been doing role for a long time and she's busy because she just got a new job. Um request I mean you guys have a sudget. Can't you request if you you
have to have them recorded unless someone's willing to come. I think there used to be like Marilyn Fidel used to do them and she does them for a couple of them. We can have someone just be a minute taker and we have to pay for that. I think so. I'm not I'm not really sure how it works.
Okay, I'll look I'll look into that. That would be good. Can we like just pass it through like AI now? Pass it record through AI now. They're I think they're looking into that. I think that's a great idea. just put on transcribe and then God knows what AI will say.
I know. Yeah, that's I see. It's not always accurate. You need a technical editor. Yeah. Right. All right. I will look into that. That's a good idea. Um All right. Um so that's all the officers, right? That's it. Okay.
All right. There's a couple of items on for 12 Robinson Road which is on the agenda. I think the first thing we should resolve is the text and design for the house sign. I know we talked about it at last meeting, but then I got
confused what we were doing, which what text we're using. So, MRIS says Benjamin Kimble and Mary Brownhouse. and we agreed to circus 1750 to 1780. But the preservation restriction only
says Benjamin Kimble House, not Mary Brown. So what do we want it to say? Who was Who were they? Who were they? Mary Brown was got married to Benjamin
Kipp. She was his wife. Is there any reason not to say Mary and Benjamin Kimble? She's called Mary Brown in the historical narratives. I think for the house sign, I don't necessarily think it has to match the
deed. So, I would be fine with it as proposed as Mary Brown and Benjamin Kimble. Well, Benjamin Kimble and Mary Brown. Do other people have preferences for whether we include her name or not? I really don't have a preference.
Um, I mean, it would be good to recognize her. She was there, too. when we made the house if at home um so sorry what the she was then she was
nay brown should we like oh I'm gonna I'm gonna read it to you I'm going to call up mris and I guess yeah yeah was she there first and then I don't think she she was there first do you know Caroline I don't think so but um let me see what I have
The only issue for Chris, if Chris is making a a sign, right? Yeah. That would make more wording for you, right? If we include her name and Mary Brown. Yeah, I don't mind that. I just I just got to fit it all in there.
Well, that's the issue. Can you? I I don't see why not. It's just have to make everything smaller. Yeah. Um All right. It's just seeing it from the road. You might not be able to see it as well, but right. Um,
hang on. Sorry, I have to go one more place. All right. All right. So, in MRIS, as I said, it says Benjamin Kimmel and Mary Brownhouse. Um, let me see where else she's talked about.
Um, in 1810, Benjamin Kimble married Brown of Tukesbury and a few months later purchased the six acres blah blah blah. Um, yeah. Then it talks about a later woman named Brown, but that's not the
original. So that's all it says about Mary Brown, I think. So just I mean assuming she became Mary Kimble, Benjamin. Yeah, I would think so. I don't Yeah, that's a good You would think so. I
don't know if that's in here. I feel like it was rare that women kept there. Right. It was rare. I would certainly agree with that. There's nothing in here that Oh, there is one. Mary Kimble. Benjamin and Mary Kimble residence. I never saw that
before. How about we Should we call it that? I think that's a good compromise. Should we call the Benjamin Mary Kimble house or residence? House. Oh, yeah. Right. Yep. Okay. Y All right. Benjamin and Mary
Gimble House. Got that? Yep. Okay, that's good. It cuts down the words. Exactly. Yeah. No, I'm glad you said that because I didn't notice it any anywhere in here before. Um, circa 1750 to 1780. And then also on the sign is
Littleton Historical Commission. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, we agreed, everyone agreed on the text. Okay. So, uh, sorry. Uh, the Benjamin and Mary Kimble House Circa 1750 to 1780. Um, and then Littleington Historical
Commission. Um, did we look at Chris's designs at our last meeting? Do you have them with you or No. Yeah, I do. Okay. Yeah, let's take a look. So, we finalize this. really two ways with the
one is with the um Ben small and one is with them all this the same and this looks like the other house signs basically is this Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to pass it around. So, and I don't think you need the circa if
it's if it's two dates cuz you really if it's Yeah. We I think we discussed this at some lengths and if we were going to have the two dates, we would not say Okay. circa. Okay. If we were going to have just one day, we No, I thought we said agreed on circa.
Oh, let's see. If anybody wants to I mean, technically circus correct because we're not sure. The dendrochronology study didn't definitively say 1750 or 17. How about a small C period in front of
the 1750? Would that be okay? Yeah, just a Yeah, just a C. You okay with you, Jonathan? Okay with me. Yeah. Is that okay? Just stand. Okay. Okay. Cuz that is more accurate. Yep. Yeah. Um I like the the smaller Benjamin. Yeah.
Cuz if we're going to say Benjamin and Mary, I'd say fit up there. I agree. But you Yes. Yes. I think it's better to have smaller. Yeah. Yeah. I like the Benjamin Benjamin and Aaron. Okay.
Okay. We're all set. I hope I never have to go up again. It was my fault, I think, that I didn't get all the last things we agreed on. Oh, it's hard to keep track. Okay. All right. So, we're done with that. That's great. Then the other thing
is, as I sent out uh to you, um was a letter to the homeowners and the uh homeowners association, the new owners of 12 Robinson, the house and the barn, the historic house and barn. So, it's all sold now, right? That's my understanding. Yes.
There's no sign up. There's no for sale sign up there. I believe it's they sold the main house, I believe. So, the house now that was for a little bit longer than Yeah, that took longer. Um I I had looked on the assessor's um property information records, but I it it wasn't
in there yet. So, I'm planning to go to the assessor's office and try to get that information. Um so, I sent out a letter. Jonathan sends some good edits. Does anyone else have edits on the letter
or any thoughts about it? Do you want me to give you a copy? I haven't copy. I have I sent a copy to everybody. Um I just did it before. Show me before
the meeting. I'll assume before you see it. Yeah, I can just give you his edits. I can show them to you there. Great. Uh, yeah, I don't think I Yeah, Jonathan's I had a You had to get
a code a verification code from University Lord. Oh my goodness. Here, you can just look at it. You want? So, I think the very top where it says hello. Hello.
I don't think you need that. ever. Hello. Maybe it says hello 12 Robinson Road. Oh, yes. Take that off completely. You don't need that because you already address it at the top. Just take hello off or um I or what you could do is say
something like residents of 12 Robinson Road like No, I I I think you have the two that and then just like a more of like a welcome to Littleton exclamation point exclamation point kind of like have that be the top like welcome, right? So take off that whole line. Yes.
Okay. Yeah. As in the formal letter, you don't actually have a salutation of Greek in a formal letter. Okay. Really? I didn't know that. Okay. Then you go right for the legal matter. But I would say welcome to Littleton. I
like an exclamation point, but others wrote up. But well, it's at the end of the sentence. If you look Yeah, I I think she wants an extra. She wants one before the comma. I would say take out I would say welcome to Littleton exclamation point and comma if you are new to town
no not comma gohead that's one sent welcome to little period you know exclamation point if you are new to town oh shoot now that doesn't work right suggest to taking out if you are new to town welcome to lake welcome to little yeah it's extra doesn't it's not
necessary really and just welcome little welcome to little I and take out to your new homes You have the I like the new homes too. So let's not fight over. Yeah. Uh I would say welcome to Littleton and
to your new homes maybe. Yeah. If take out if you are new to town. Right. An exclamation point at the end of the sentence like it is. Yeah. Okay. All right. Keep going. And then I get rid of as you likely know. Yeah. Oh yeah. Actually that's Yes, you're right.
I would say something to the effect of the property um comes I do think there needs to be a lead into a perpetual like maybe not as you likely know but he's saying sorry
no he was saying the property in includes or something a perpetual what would we say I would say all right move up the move up an explanation of who we are historical commission has responsibility Yes, move that up. We do. And then say, you know, this
house falls into that or this property. You know, you know, this letter is to serve you as as notice. Yeah. That the property has a perpetual No, I don't like that. That's too uh wanting to be welcoming and friendly,
you know, not uh not give them legal legal notice that we're likely to be after them for something, which we may well be, but we don't want to start with that. I I I understand that we do. It's a fine
line to to navigate. I agree. Obviously, this is a legal Yeah. lever, so you do have to be conscious of that. I think there are ways to be friendly within it. Welcome to Littleton. Exclamation point, you know, that's us being friendly
and then but I think there has to be an explanation of like who the commission is, what we do before you talk about the PR. I think so because they they don't care. I mean, no, I think the historic preservation restriction comes next and then the Littleton Commission being who enforces
it. I think the way you have it there is fine. I would just I would just leave it in my from the time I was a little t I was told to ex you know get rid of stuff get rid of
extraneous material make it brief. Yes. So we'll take out as you as you likely know but and if you wanted something in at the beginning of that sentence let's figure out what it is. But I I agree I think we talked about the PR in that next sentence first and
then say that we enforce it. Yeah. So, do you want to change that second sentence at all? Or we could just start it with a perpetual historic preservation restriction has been placed on the 12 arms of historic house. Yeah. Some I don't like that because
it's passive, but I Yeah, I had it originally. I couldn't figure out a Yeah. better way to put that. So, I think what's important though is our restriction. So, we didn't get the land. So, our rest correct. Well, that's what it says.
Mhm. Says, "Yeah, but you're sending it on the house and No, only to those two homeowners." Oh, I'm sorry. Not the other homeowners. Just those two. Do they? Okay. Homeowners association as well as the two homeowners. But isn't the homeowner association this
group of owners? I don't know. I have to find that out. I think it is the group. You do? I hope so. It's all four. I would send it to the homeowners association and then just specify in there that it's 12 Robinson Road main and barn.
I mean units one and two or you know which be specific about which unit. That's what I didn't know when I have to find that out there. Yeah, whichever ones they are. That's really good. Um Okay. Right. So, so even backing up to,
you know, to to the well, Robinson Road Homeowners Association and then So, that's you you're saying that to them. Um, but Okay, let's back up for a minute.
Are the back lots called 14? Is that a new address? I'll have to find that out. I don't know why I think that. Do you know how he did the homeowners association? one or there two. I have no idea. 12 Robinson. All right. So, 12 Robinson Road, unit two.
Pretty sure there's one or two. Yes, it is 14. It's 14. So, the back ones are 14. 14 one and two. Units one and two. So, 14 Robinson Road one and two. So, this is this is 12 Robinson Road units one and two. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. It is for 12 Robinson
Road units one and two. Okay. Um, so that that does bring up a good point, but I still think it being the homeowners association, it has to go to them because all of them Okay. will have to know. Okay. That's right. That makes sense. The president of the homeowners
association is in 14A. That's right. Oh, yeah. Got it. Got it. Do we know? No. I have to find that the home that is just one homeowners association includes all four units or do we know that? I don't know. All right. All right. So, here's let me
just pull up the listing for 14A. It's because it should say it was a HOA, right? Listen, there's separate addresses that they're actually It's true. There could be two um the condo. Yeah, condos like they're all sort of
um homeowners association. Yes. So, I doubt it's two homeowners associations for those two. I'll find that out from the assessor's. Oh, no. She might not know that. It's it's it's on the listing for it
that the 14 the properties at 14 are part of the or are in an association which it would be crazy if they made two different associations for gold. Can I find this out from town council because I think after we go through this
number of units in the home association is it says so there's one there's one there's one. All right. By the way, I do want to run this by town council because this is I think we have to it is a lease letter and I know we want it to be friendly. Okay. So, I'm going to run it by them
first and if they have changes I'll come back to you. I mean, you could ask if there is an official name for the homes association, like if it's, you know, if they've got Okay. If I mean, my experience with home HOAs is limited, but like assuming they have
to have like a an official title, right? They've got to have an official name. Yeah. So, find out whatever that is, send it to them. Okay. and then stipulate that the units at 12 Robinson Road one and
units one and two fall into this. Yes. Mhm. Um Okay. Yeah. So, so far we've got through one sentence. Yes. But but it's a good rewritten sentence.
Welcome to Littleton and to your new homes. Then how do you want to start the second one? a perpetual historic preservation restriction. I would say it we are we are writing to you to inform you that there is because
again if the people at 14 they're not going to why would they know that there's a right that's true right you certainly can assume that they know their deed doesn't say it that's right to inform you that and then the rest of the sentence right okay yep that makes sense
okay then the last I think we can probably keep that last sentence of that paragraph the little store commission has the responsibility unless you want to change something of administering that the that agreement or something like that to ensure that its requirements for historic preservation are being met by the property owners not
property by the you can just say owners by the owners yes by the owners right okay then Jonathan and I agree with him took out the first sentence of the next paragraph the whole sentence let so I won't attach these restriction
I don't think I need to I Well, I put it part of their to do that to get around that. I just put in the well in the first sentence where it says or second sentence perpetual historic preservation restriction
and then I put C. Well, I didn't even see that. So, do you guys think that we should send it to them? Yes. Okay. I feel like you can never be too confident that people have it removes all ambiguity. No, that's right. Cuz they might not know where it is. It's the people in 14
if they're right they they won't have this part of their deed. So they should what you're really sending it for is so that if there's a violation you can say here's this here's a copy of the certification that we got when we mailed it to you that you signed for
this letter and it was attached to this letter. Therefore you were delivered. Yes. Okay. No, that totally makes sense. Uh, I don't think that's even necessary, but it legally I think that that's not necessary because it's part of the deed and as part of the deed
I could ask town council they required to I mean whether they read it or not you know it's it's partly it never hurts to no I I agree it never hurts and again if if people that are if the people that are running the HOA are in the two
properties of 14 I need to be able to see it. have. No, you're right. All right, we'll include it. It's not a It's fine. It's not a secret security. No, no, no, no, no. You know, that's fine. We'll we'll do that. We'll include it. So, in the second paragraph, we've gotten rid of the first sentence
cuz see attachment is now in the first paragraph. Jonathan also got rid of the second sentence um which is I agree. Below is a brief list of some upcoming activities related because we don't need that. You can just go on to the last sentence of that paragraph. The LHC is
planning the following activities to highlight your home's historic actor and he that was something that I added. Oh, you did? Oh, great. He added that to take the place of the other one because I thought it was more active. That's fine. Right. You know, I like the sort of So, what he added again, cuz you guys
haven't seen his letter, the LHC is planning the following activities to highlight your home's historic character. All right. And then under the first bullet he took out the LHC is currently and and now he says we're producing a house sign for placement on
the main house. Oh, and the barn. Okay. That was I didn't change that. Yeah. Yeah. And the barn. Oh, so I didn't include that. Okay. Um for uh we're producing a Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. It isn't. I'm sorry. I'm thinking
of the PR. The sign's just going on the house. One sign. We're producing a house sign for placement on the main house as specified in the PRC section 3.4. We would like to install this sign in the near future, possibly this summer. We are happy to show you the sign before installation. Please let us know if you
would like to see it. Does that sound okay? Well, well, okay. Change that gives them feel some agency and they don't have agency. All right. So, I'll take that. No, they don't. We would like to install the sign in the near future, possibly summer, and
then just leave it like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, how do you see this? The house sign will look identical to other house signs placed on historic properties. If you're curious, look at other like Yeah.
Just let them know what they're getting. But again, they don't have that choice. I'll say right um small. Huh? But small so they don't think it's huge. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. What's the dimensions? So, we do you remember like 12 by 16? 12 by 16 I think was what we've always
done and I think we discussed that agreed to. So, I think maybe you're right. We should say something at the end of that bullet something about sign will be that 12 by 16. And how about small? Just put a 12 x 16 sign.
Yeah. Right. Right. 12 x 16 sign. Should we tell them what it's going to say or No. Okay. All right. Fine. Okay. You could say uh a 12 x 16 sign of say explaining but of um
highlighting highlighting the significance of the house is highlighting the historical significance of the house. Yes. There you go. Okay. Okay. Next bullet. Jonathan took out the ALHC and said weed and took out
could or whatever. We'd like to arrange a meeting with the property owners of the historic house and barn or should I just say the HOA? Yes. Just the HOA. Yes. Again, I like I don't know how big HOAs
tend like if it's a four unit. I don't know how many people are on the HOA, but Right. They could have other members. I don't know how that works. No, they're only going to be the four of them. So, would it be a representative from each property? Like I I don't know how these things work and
Because could someone potentially live in the barn and not be on the HOA at all? So, should I leave it the way it is just to cover us? Okay. We really want to get I mean, we do absolutely want to get the HOA people in, of course. But we also I think our
main priority is the people that live in the property. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. Like, why why do you want to meet with them? Okay. We want I've talked to Shanti about this and so we want to let them know upfront like now
what's in the preservation restriction. Explain to them what it means because if they don't know then they could go ahead and change things. Yes. In the house. Yes. And say, "Oh, I didn't know." So that's that's what we want. We have the right then to sue them and so on.
Yeah. Right. But also I mean are we going to be going into the property at all or like stipulating have right to go in the property if annual inspections? Well that's in a year from now just so they but again making them
have the right to go into the property on an annual basis. Should I have done that here or explain that to them? No, no, no. I would say in the letter. Yeah. And then again, never estimate, underestimate how many times that people will not read or show
up to like we need to be ultra clear because if we show up and say, I didn't know, then we can say, well, we have it in writing, right? And you know, if it's just, oh, well, we told you at the meeting, well, I wasn't able to be there. Like, yeah, okay. Has to be in like make sure it's in
writing. All right. So I think I would put that maybe at the end of this paragraph that we have the we aren't going to bullet the main highlights. Just put it as one of the bullets. Oh, as a third bullet. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good idea. Very good. Yes. Yes.
I mean those are the main deliverables. Those are the main Yes. Those Historic Commission has an obligation to perform an annual inspection per the deed restriction to assure that the property historical significance has been maintained over the course of the previous year. Mhm.
Yes. Yes. I mean, it's like when we when the town if you're going to do work, you have to inform your neighbors by, you know, certified letter. Like, it's I don't think that's any different. We need to make sure that anything
that would be disruptive to the owners, we we put in writing. Yeah. I think there's also I think legally we don't have to do that because it's in the deed restriction already. I agreeing with on the other hand I
think Rachel has a point that you know you tell them also no I think we do say that I agree all right so I'll add that bullet right let's just go through the and again I would always when we're saying preservation restriction we should say HPR but it wasn't called that it's always
called a PR it's not called a historic preservation restriction it's called a historic PR that's the way I've always seen it I've never se seen the term from HPR. Okay, then you don't know. Is Shanti coming to the meeting?
She will be at this meeting with us. Yes, that's fantast We'd like This is Jonathan's made a little edit. We'd like to arrange a meeting with the property owners of the historic house and barn and the HOA representatives to explain the preservation protections and
responsibilities contained in the eight historic PR. Certain alterations require prior review and approval by the Littleton Historical Commission. Please let us know your availability in July or August for thisformational meeting. Does that sound okay? Uh
are we meeting in July and August, September? No, no, not us. This would be me and Shanti would go to Got it. This is the information. They're not coming to the No, no, no. We would go meet with them there. We would show them what needs to be preserved. remind me uh in the the
deed restriction it says that uh if something is in violation they have to pay for it. I have to read it but um I have to read it. I would make that a bullet. I would simply say, yes, I would simply say that
um as as one of the reminders, right, that the HCO HOA covers ex the expenses of I forget exactly what it is, common area repairs or something
because that was my really big concern about the whole thing in the first place was that if you underfund the HOA Hey, I mean it's a it's a well it's it's their problem. 475.
What I mean by that is the PR the preservation requires them to we think cover it and if they don't have enough money they have to go find the money don't they? Well, that's probably the case, but again, I think you want to make sure that you alert them to that
scenario early in ownership so that if it develops as a problem in a few years, it's documented as having been delivered as such. You just need to pull the the the deed restrictions in there somewhere. All right, that makes sense. Add that.
Yes. Okay, as a bullet. All right. Okay. And then we're pretty much done. I I will rewrite this and show it to you before I send it to the um town council's office. Then the last thing I assume is okay. We truly hope you enjoy your new homes and look forward to
collaborating with you to preserve their historic character. Feel free to contact us with any question. All right. And then Shanti and I were planning to go and anyone else who wants to go obviously can go. You'll be on the permission by then I think. So
okay. And just to give you briefly a a little bit of a broader context which which you probably already know but thisformational meeting with the homeowners is in a bit of a broader context. Um we got CPC
funding to do to hire Shanti and um this is what it says she she was going to do and she's also agreeing to do this informational meeting. Um, the consultant will assist the historical commission to ensure that the
new owner understands and adheres to his or her responsibilities related to PR. That's this meeting partially addresses that. She will also conduct a site inspection with the new owner and historical commission. She will develop a template
for annual historical commission inspection reports and she will review with the historical commission how to conduct ongoing administration and enforcement of the PR. So should have some sort of template for that last audience. Okay. Excellent.
Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to put that in. No, that's all excellent broader context. Yeah, that's very good. Very good. Okay. All right. Now, um okay.
So, um we don't have meeting minutes to We didn't do that. I didn't do that. I don't really have member updates. Any other member updates? Well, I have a member update. I don't know whether there's anything we we should do about it. I'm a little disturbed that
some some higher levels people aren't doing more about it, but there's been a whole lot of discussion on the Mass Historical Commission discussion list or whatever you call it. Carolyn participated in I I participated
in it regarding the fact that um insurance companies, homeowners insurance companies have either refused to or refuse to insure historic homes or have raised the the rates for historic
homes. And and lots and lots of people have been contributing to this. some some with many postings, some with with fewer postings about about this issue. It seems to me it's something,
you know, that that all of us in in in just interested in historical preservation should be aware of. And I would hope that somebody and I was sort of hoping that that that somebody either in Preservation Massachusetts or at the
Mass Historical Commission would be taking on the the role of informing state leadership. I think somebody said they were going to get in touch with their uh with their state, you know, senators and and their
representatives, but also maybe even uh Secretary Galvin as you know, head of the historic mass historical commission or something or somebody or the the
you know the insurance industries should be aware of this anyway. way and the legislature should be aware of this. It's a I mean it seems to be a big issue all over the place. I I mean I noticed it when when our insurance was not
renewed by one company, it was then renewed by a different company. So it's not as though we don't have insurance. But this see does seem to be a big issue and I just sort of bring it up because some of you perhaps don't read these things and and should be aware of that
and maybe we you know somebody should be in touch with uh with the state state leadership and somebody on the state the state level. Is there a bill going through or being looked at about
this or not? I No, I don't think Okay. There was another bill that was causing a lot of uh to do having to deal with uh with whether
historic districts could be overridden by some since we didn't have any historic districts. I haven't paid close attention to that part of it, but all of a sudden there was a lot of chatter on the uh the whatever you call it list
serve the mass historical commission and then lots of people were contributing to that. So I I thought I would mention itformational purposes for for us. I know we have faced that issue. Uh we
were denied insurance by one of our insurers and then they they found somebody else to to do it but uh you know you worry about that. I mean it happened to your neighbor right
on Foster Street as well. Um the Wilsons. Did they find insurance? They found Yeah, they found someone but they were initially dropped. So yeah, that's it's definitely a big issue. Yeah. Yes. and other people have had their insurance uh you know the the
premium increased a lot right any other public input at this point I had a couple things we were talking earlier about John Ledger um I was wondering if should we do something like have him recognized by
the select board or at least if you know someone here goes up through public input because he I did look him up and he's he was on the commission for like 20 years. Um that's a long time. So it just seems like yes I don't know whether he would go like if
the select board did it and if he went you could you know give him a little certificate. Not sure if he would or not and then maybe just to do it to public input but I don't know. I have I found his the dates that he was on the board and I don't mind helping like trying to
pull some stuff out of like the town reports when he was on just you know because to say I don't know what you say but you know during John's tenure this is what was accomplished I I'll help with that. Yeah that'd be great. Um it just seems like 20 years should be
recognized. Do they do like days of recognition think so? But they do them at the start of the meeting because the one that Linda presented at um they had the fencing fencing coach. Do they do that often or is that
unusual? I don't know. I think when Jim uh Picker resigned or retired from the conservation commission because he'd been on that for 25 years. I think they did a little just it's not nothing vague, you know. It's just uh I mean you could talk to Karen Morrison
and see if what what's appropriate or Jim or the TA's office. I I I definitely uh support that. I also think that we should have an unofficial dinner in John's honor
um some evening local. Sounds good. Yeah. No, I mean I think um and then I have one other thing. Um, you know, I don't know about funding these days, but the Mass Historical Commission has the survey planning grant. I don't
know if um that's the one way we put more houses on MAC on the inventory. I'd be willing to help with that too if they have one this year. I mean, I don't know to do a survey or to do something else. Well, it's for the grant to do more put more houses on.
So, we would hire a consultant to do that. Yeah. So, the what happened last year was the letter of intent was due in November. The full application was due in February and it's awarded that March. So, so November is the letter of intent and then what's next?
The full application deadline would be in February if it follows what was done last year and that was in the full application. Yeah. Yeah. I've thought of this, but I always deadlines just like right on I don't think of it until the deadline's right
on top of us. Yeah, I can update that spreadsheet I have with what we what we have now so we can see what what properties we have left. Okay. But we'll they might be able to offer it this year either. Who knows? But I don't
know. And I don't know since I asked that help help with it too if we need help. When was our last 2018? When was our last 2018 I think. Yeah. Preandemic. Wow. True.
Well, in seven years, several properties have now aged. So, yeah, there's a gap. Anything else? No, that's all. Okay. Um, I have somewhat of an update on the
Derky property. Um, as you know, it's owned by the Affordable Housing Trust. I got some updates via email from the affordable housing trust that they didn't exactly answer. Well, they don't know yet is basically what's going on. So, what the what I asked them, I told
them that we the historical commission had a discussion at our last meeting about the affordable housing trust possibly paying back the CPC payment for the Derky house. And we understand why the housing trust might want or need to
do that. However, some historical commission members were concerned that this might set a precedent for future CPC projects such as historical projects that is removal of CPC status and thus protection. I also said is the affordable housing trust definitely
planning to pay back the CPC money and now thinking of keeping the house and land and replacing the house with new affordable housing or selling the house and land. You know, what are their plans? So the response I got was the only new Derky development is insurance
has been renewed. That's liability insurance, not property insurance. Then beyond that, he said the house is a complicated problem. Splitting off the house would probably include the barn just because of proximity. Then the barn is hard to develop because
of septic. The CPA law is difficult in terms of what is allowed with CPA money on nonCPA purchased property. From his point of view, the simplest thing is to replace the house with something new. Perhaps keeping the facade or another historic token. That's
harsh, but is it it's in bad structural condition and fixing it would cost two to three times new construction. The housing trust's intention is to have all affordable units there. What we'll decide is somewhat dependent on what
responses they get from the RFP. So they either have or will be issuing an RFP for some developer in collaboration I think with the affordable housing trust consultant to develop the property. So that's the
response I got. The red discourages. Yeah. Well, you know, I think I I mentioned this before that the this the project was always sort of inongruent and uh I actually saw an article, I'm
going to send it to everyone, but it was a New Hampshire specific, but um Kelly AOT recently signed a new law that created a nonprofit company that can accept donations and try to bridge the gap between market and affordability for
developers because New Hampshire has zero developers that are interested in building affordable housing projects because they there's they just don't work with the market. So, so we have the challenges of a town without affordable housing, finding how to have affordable
housing and then the donated property is a historic home and needs rehabilitation. So, you have rehabilitation, you have affordable housing, and then you you have submarket rates. So, you have a massive gap there, right? It's really unfortunate. It's not true that we don't have
affordable housing in town. We have we we are actually under over the the requirement. Oh, I didn't know that. I know that there was that proposal for the town hall and it seemed like the town um had some estimates that we were maybe not
this moment but heading towards being um under providing affordable housing. I don't know. But this didn't pass, did it? It did not pass. No, it didn't pass. I don't think Carolyn, right? There's what Marinol calls
capital A affordable and cuz this was supposed to be deeply affordable, right? There's a difference. I think there's a difference. Yeah, it's I don't It's just about impossible to build what what you might call deeply affordable,
whatever they want to call it. It's just about impossible to build that without, you know, without somebody subsidy, right? Yeah. It has to be a nonprofit with almost like land given to you, which I think, you know, somebody subsidizing it or something. Now,
you know, on the other hand, affordable housing is, you know, is more possible. Yeah. So, did we find out when the property was purchased? It was purchased through the affordable housing fund of
the CPA and not the historic fund of CPA, right? Yeah. I believe I believe they spent $100 for it, right? It was not us. It was it was the affordable housing trust. So, it it doesn't sound great. I I understand their dilemma because I I
have attended several of their meetings because we thought, you know, we would move forward with historic stuff, but I do understand their needs. On the other hand, when we were looking into this, when this first started, we found some other sites in Massachusetts that made it work.
Remember, we found I forget where they were, but I shared them with this group. I shared it with select board. Yeah. In Westford, they're making it work. I don't know what the difference is. Um, in your letter it said it was a structurally poor condition.
That's what in in the notes. Yeah. Well, it is. It's in bad condition. There's no You were there, weren't you? It was. I didn't think it was structurally poor condition. Well, there are needs work because there are issues. That front part. Sure. Where they put plywood. There's like no
floor and they put some Well, it's over 100 years old. Yeah. Anyway, is there anything else that you want me to ask them or talk to them or just keep a tab keep should I just keep tabs on what I think just keep going.
I'd be interested to hear um that that um property surveyed right survey. Yeah. Mhm. So, uh the RFPs are important and uh that would uh a demolition delay
or demolition application would come across our table. Right. Right. But I think I'll, you know, I should keep in touch with them with the affordable housing trust before that point comes. You know, I'm interested in what the RFP is coming. Yeah. Yeah. We should be able to look at
that, I would think. Yeah. I mean, if they're going to tear everything down, it was sort of silly for them to acquire it in the first place. I mean, what's, you know, No, I mean, I guess they didn't realize that they'd have to tear everything. Well, I think they had some good intentions up front to try to
rehabilitate it and they don't have, you know, there was concern that it may not be viable. Now, I think now that they have some input from a affordable housing consultant, I think they they think it's not that viable monetarily. Well, they got they
got the land though too, Jonathan. Right. So the the property was $100 which included the land for which it sits which is below market rate for land a little bit. Um
yeah. Okay. All right. Um on a less depressing note um the orchard an update on the orchard barns or actually Yeah. So Shanti and I went out there with um oh man I can't
Eric I think his name was he's the facilities manager for the town. Nice guy. Um and he showed us in you know we looked at the exterior as well as the interior of the two barns the the big barn the brown one and the nice looking
um white one a little further down. Um, and it was, you know, informally Shanti and I both thought they're historic. There were some really cool inside features. Old old beams, pean whatever,
whatever you call it. What is it? You know what I'm talking about. Mortise and tenon. Yeah. Yeah. Mortise and tenon beam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, she's going to write up her notes and she's going to get her picture photos all together. I believe she's
going to write up a mris form for the two barns. We already have it have the main house in mris for the exterior. Um and she will she and I and anyone else who wants to will work on writing preservation restrictions for the two
barns and the house. That's another um CPC project that we got funding for. So So that's good news. So there is a plan now for somebody to take over the uh the lease the orchard. Uh
so they have someone fil you know if I'm filling whatever I leave out or whatever they have somebody Branson is that his name? I can't remember. He is he already has a lease in place right? I think so. And he he will be using he is using one of the barns not both of them. He's
using the main big brown barn. Um, and he's leasing a certain percentage of the acres. I forget how much how many acres. He's going to be doing a lot of container farming plants and trees or whatever in
containers. He's Yeah. And he's also going to try to preserve some of the trees if not all of them because they're in bad shape. They're diseased, but some of them, especially the perimeter along the roads. and he does seem to have a um
a stake in sustainability. Um he seems to be concerned about sustainability and ecological protection. So that's already in place. Okay. Anything else on the orchard?
I'll keep you posted as to, you know, when Shanti rides up her her documents. Um, so we are, you know, just we are planning to write preservation restrictions for the house, probably one
or both of the barns. We'll have to see what she says. Um, historic marker plaques. There is a little bit of progress. I submitted finally four of the plaques to the manufacturer that we discussed. Um, I held back the Nishoba
praying Indian Town one, I think it was, because I haven't heard back. I've asked the Nishoba for Indians for some feedback if they want to change the text at all from what we have. Haven't heard back. So, I'll try to contact them again. And then for the Porter Road
Bridge one, Chris is going to try to refurbish the one that's there. So, I didn't submit that for a new plaque yet to see what happens with Chris. Were you able to get it off or is it impossible to get the old one off? I I showed up with the wrong tool. So, I
have to go back and try again. But I thought it was going to be bolted on or something, but it's just sort of like sort of like just glued on. Oh, is it? Yeah. So, I have to try and get it off without harming it. It's epoxy, I bet. Yeah. Epoxied up. I can see it around the edges. over there.
I just got to bring it. Do you have to take it off or can you like What were you going to do with it? Um you going to sand it down? Yeah, I was going to try and sand it down and make the letters pop a little bit more, but I mean I don't know if you guys want to change the the wording on it either. We're okay with the wording.
Okay. Yeah. So, I can try and do something on site or I might bring it back and try and do some It may be easier to sand it in place. I was just thinking that. Pry it out of that granite rock. Yeah, I might try that. Okay, great. Well, keep us posted. Thank
you for for being willing to try that. Yeah, rock the water. Um, so there's really not too much else. I have historic district on here because we should think about it. Um, we know there's challenges.
Oh, can I? Yeah. uh we talked about the markers, but then we're also talking about the house plaques and the uh the different woods and how much they would cost and and so on. So,
and do we want and I was thinking, you know, do we want to proceed with that? I'd be happy to work with Chris on that. I you know sort of I have lots of experience working with somebody else and if I have somebody if there's somebody here that we can work with that
would be fabulous and uh so what do we want to do? So so the piece of cedar that I got for can make probably six signs. Cedar is really expensive. So I,
you know, for a cedar sign, it would probably be anywhere between $110 and $120 a sign just because of the the cost and the it it's a lot more preparation and everything, but the cedar sign is going
to last a lot longer than the um it's not that much more expensive than what we were paying before, particularly because apparently what we were paying before was really under under the value of what
we you know somebody told me well that guy was you know he was an old guy and he was just sort of doing it and he was really unsustainable what he was paying and that was for signs that weren't cedar what were they uh MD
pine I think or something called MDO I believe is that what they were were they not sure were I don't know if those are the old ones I mean, MDO is a really good external grade plywood, but it is plywood. MDO.
And I don't think we were using plywood. I think we I think whoever, you know, was this guy um what's his name? What's his name again? Do you have any signs that like old signs that you could show Chris? I should have brought my I should have
brought mine. The one that's on my barn. Well, there's lots of signs all over the place and there's signs on. So, what is it made of? Do you know or Oh, it's that MDO. And and Oh, you think that's MDO? Yeah, mine was uh I think 5 years ago I got mine and from us. Yeah. So MDO we think things?
Yeah. The the um the quarantine station uh bar, one of the barns and so I looked at it the other day. I just went up closer to it and you can see it starting to crack and you know it's it's definitely uh
probably not the not the type of wood you want to use, you know, just for I think the cedar is just going to last a whole lot longer. Yeah. Why? I mean, I would go for cedar. I mean, I don't know. people who are ordering it's not a lot of people but the people ordering signs probably would
be prepared to spend a little bit more money for uh for something that we can can promise anyone I mean I have a couple of a couple of people got in touch with me ages and ages ago and we were sort of talking about it and then
the guy who was doing our science died and I wasn't able to go back go on with that and then to be honest I sort of dropped the ball a bit but now that yeah, you're available and uh and you know, it sounds like we could uh we could get
going. How about if we uh if I get back to these people and say, "Are you interested? Here's what the the price would be." And it would be a good cedar cedar sign and uh and so on. Make sure you have the right price for
him before you Yeah. I mean, I will get we'll I'll email with you and we can uh we can talk we can discuss that and then I'll get to these. They're just a there were a couple of people who were interested in signs.
Western Red, is that what you've got? Yeah. Yeah. The other one that you said, I asked him about it. He said they don't even know where to get that. It's in conquered lumber. Oh, yeah. Um and that's the only kind of cedar they had. So, uh, so I'm preparing it now for the sign
that for, uh, this sign. Ah, yes. For 12 Robinson. Yeah. So, by the next meeting, I should have it. Cedar. Yep. Oh, great. Red cedar. It's good stuff. Thank you. And my understanding is you're doing it
for free so that we can all Yeah, I just wanted you guys to I can bring that one in. I can bring the one from my barn so you can see the difference. Oh, that'd be great. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I will contact you about about this. As I say, there were a couple of people who were interested and then I I
sort of dropped the ball. Uh one of them I mean it can certainly afford it. One of them was Oh jeez, now I forget. Oh god, I getting old. Uh the guy who's a selectman who lives on Robinson Road.
What's his name again? Jeff Jeff Yates. Yates. He's on the plane. Planning. Excuse me. Yeah. Anyway, but I was actually contact I was dealing with his wife, but you know, but he's an
architect, so he should really like to have a good cedar, you know, proper cedar sign. And then there was the people, the sort of this new couple. They're not so new anymore, but the ones who moved right across from you, the
across from the historical society on uh King Street. Oh, yes. Yeah. They have a little kid or maybe two little kids and doing all sorts of little cutesy things in in their front yard. That's a tricky property though.
Anyway, I'm glad that somebody's taking care of it. So Chris, when you join our commission, I don't know if when you fill out your paperwork, did you declare a conflict of interest? No. Probably need to. Um because once you're on the commission,
right, if we are buying signs through your business, that would be an apparent conflict of interest if it's not disclosed. Got it. So you get to revise your application. Yeah. I didn't think about it, so I'll
look at it. Yeah. Okay. Um, so historic district is on the agenda, but you know, we don't usually talk much about it, but it is an issue. We know there's challenges. The reason, the only thing I want to say tonight is
Elizabeth, the new person who will be at our next meeting, I believe. She has had some experience working with historic districts, I think. Oh, excellent. So, that might help us move forward perhaps. So that's exciting. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel that. I mean I I know there's been some I mean first of all I haven't pursued it anymore. Second of all I know and Rachel has mentioned this that the Wilsons have had some questions about it. I don't know if they said absolutely no, but well, it was the same and the topic that
you brought up earlier, the the home owner, the home insurance policy, they got dropped because because they had a sign on their house and they said it was in a historic district and then when the Wilsons said, "No, it's not," they, you
know, proved it. The insurance company said it doesn't matter. But our house was was dropped and you know because we're on Mattress and everybody is on Mattress. So if that's going to be the the criteria
Yeah. And sure like it it happens. But I think that was just the one. Yeah. Yeah. If that you know and I don't know if it's always been the same company or if it's one company that's has this policy like I that I don't know. I think it's
been a lot of companies because as I say there's been a lot of emails into this uh you know obviously again there are other historic districts in the state people in those like like people have policies so but I I do know that was a concern if
if they might get a dropped again or b if prices go up things to consider of of where there might be push Right. It's a problem and as I say, I've had that problem, too. But the thing I
worry about is, you know, is, you know, the way it is now, I don't think any of those people are going to do anything really terrible with their houses. I mean, if you look and see, everybody's doing even really nice things. I mean, the the houses on Foster
Street are being maintained very well, better than than they they've ever ever been before. The thing that worries me is if somebody for some reason or other wants, you know, decides to sell their house and it's bought by a developer or something like that, then you never know
what might happen. Might be torn down or yes, some other you know catastrophe might because to your point they have been well maintained. So I would hope but I mean I think that is also that is why
the oulars the the augulars I thought they were um you know that's why they've gone through the effort because they do have a lot of land. I don't know how much land each of them each of these properties has that they but they have like six acres on their
old. Yeah. Um, so I know that that's that was their that that was their onus to get the deed restriction on their house. They're on national register. Is that what they did or what did they do? No. Uh, they just got a deed restriction through um New England. Historic New England.
Is that what it is? A preservation restriction? I think Well, they did this thing where they sold their house uh into a conservatorship. Oh, right. So, but they yes, they had a significant amount of land that came with that house. And I don't know if all
the other properties would have that. I mean, I would some of them do, some of them don't. I mean, I was talking with with one woman on our street who said that uh you know that she had like 4 acres or something and it was some developer who wanted to develop it because you know
you could you could do that but she said oh I wouldn't but with no protection someone could set developer that's the issue. I think the area that um we we came close would be
um with the pastor and the fact that he could have not to say that that is a historic district but I'm just saying the historic district's role for us are really in planning right and it's it's the same way the planning board decides
zoning right it's our ability to enforce some sort of zoning and And in the case of the pastor, if he had um torn down the house at the at the road and replaced that with a very modern metal
structure, it would uh would show like it would show a different appearance in the part of town. So, I think that's the the reason you do it. It's kind of like the same reason you have a planning board.
I mean I yeah I I am I am pro them on a you know uh a hardline issue like yeah on principle I'm pro them but dealing with them is the word um yeah I hear you your experience
pro on principle but you know lots of other towns have started I actually saw possible There is so many in Massachusetts. Yeah, there are there's literally only a few towns I know like us who don't have Yeah. that don't have a single one.
Right. I I mean maybe that is an argument. Maybe if you could get more of the people on Foster Street who can come forward and say, I've been approached by developers, you know, if we don't do this, then that's then that's more likely to
happen. I don't know that that story is necessarily that narrative is maybe not getting out there as much. Um, and that, you know, god forbid it gets left to a child that doesn't care and just wants to make money, like it it could go ary.
So, I understand obviously where the concerns are from. And I also understand even for some of the people on the street if they might feel like we put in the effort to make, you know, to keep our house. We shouldn't have to be told what to do. They're very good with self-governance I feel like on that road. Um
but you know if that's if we can you know more of the existential crisis of okay but yeah there is always that I mean that's the thing that so I mean again when we we lived in Pero there was this lovely
federal house right across the street from the town hall and it was owned by a doctor and his wife and his wife is very prominent as an author of children's author and illustrator of children's books and they had this lovely house
that they had, you know, kept up in beautiful shape. And you know, by all any account, you would have figured, okay, that's undoubtedly going to be going to be preserved and how could anything go wrong.
I don't understand why, but some guy, everybody said he got his money from drug dealing or something. What do I know? Everybody said he got his money from drug dealing. Bought that property, totally gutted it, totally took off all
the features that I mean it was a sh it was left as a shell. So it remained and built this gingerbread kind of kind of thing with all kinds of fancy stuff. I mean you know it looked like something from I don't know
Newport or something. You couldn't have said with a state with a a stable and a u indoor you know enclosed uh riding you know ring or something whatever they call
those things and all of this super fancy super elaborate in a town which you know never would have had anything like that in in the past. It was just still so in congruous and yeah I mean that's
you know that kind of thing I mean can happen I mean no no I how could something like this happen and that's I mean yeah I I agree it's people things can go arg real real quick and that's why again on principle I am pro
historic but it being coming to a vote and I I think it came to a vote it would likely pass, but I you know I can't you never know. I mean because we did have a proposal for a historic district in
Littleton which got a majority vote actually at a town meeting but you need 2/3. Now I'm not sure you still do but at that point anyway you needed 2/3 looking to find out if we would still move 2/3. I'm guessing yes to do the exp. We need to bring it out. They need to create an exploratory committee. We
know that we are many many steps from right someone has to initiate the process we know I feel like we've talked about this issue okay I'm sorry it's okay so maybe Elizabeth will have
some insight for us I don't know all right do I have a motion anything else before anything else motion to adjourn we always should choose oh the next date yes Today is the night.
13th. August 13th. Is everyone available? August 13th. Chris, you available? August 13th. So, yeah. Okay. All right. August 13th, next meeting. I'll say August 13th.
I move we adjourn. Seconded. All in favor? I. Okay. Meeting