place to water. It now being uh 6:30 uh we're here uh for the planning board meeting um Thursday, June 25th, 2026. Let's start by um allegiance.
I pledge algiance to the flagice for all. >> Okay. Board of business. First agenda. Minutes of prior. Has anyone had a chance to look at them?
Um, so that being said, can I have a motion to approve? >> Second. >> I Marin, you said you might not do item close period counts. >> Yeah, let's let's put a hold on that.
Accounting is like triple checking things and we're finding a few. >> Okay. number support item C, planning for goals. Spoke about various things at our retreat last meeting and Cooper
circulated a uh call it survey. >> Okay. Has everyone had a chance to >> pass this down to >> um I sort of found a card to fill out
because everything's there's nothing that I you know if we brought it up in the meeting it seemed like you know anyway >> well and and part of my point being to go through this exercise with you was to
it was a lot of work in the priorities and we'd like to focus on those that are most important to you. >> Right. That makes sense. Um that uh concludes our scheduled board
business. Is there anything else? Um, >> actually, sorry, I should review this with you, but um I've been hearing a lot of rumblings and rumors. Sounds like a Fleetwood Mac album of um what's happening at the the Donalan property.
>> Okay. And um I know we've had like some discussion and I think it would be good to kind of bring it out in a public forum as well to say basically like what can happen there, what do we know has happened there and then what's just conjecture.
>> Um I hear rumblings and rumors. I have yet to hear that other than it has been sold to a car. Um we all have sort of gone back to the
planning uh documents and which show that it's in the village common district in which auto dealers and automotive services are not allowed
not even by special permit. >> Does anyone know anything more? Have you had any contact? >> No. any official contact from with the prospective buyer. My guess is it's probably still in purchase and sale
process given the usual length of lengthy amount of time that commercial sales take. I would imagine that they're doing due diligence at this point, but that's just a conjecture on my part. So we could say sold to a car
dealership, but that space we don't know what I and I'll explain my source which is someone who works for Donald's at the acting store. >> Okay. >> Who has been told by the management
and also was told that they'll probably close in November. >> There's no official communications. >> Okay. And it does sound like even if it is sold to a car, like anybody can buy things, but they can't operate a car
dealership there or hold inventory there per the zoning laws, >> right? >> Yeah. I guess I mean, we'll find out what they have in mind, but in my view, it's the most prime
site in the uh formbbased code village common district for redevelopment and excuse and they were buying it for that. Great. Let's see what they have in mind.
>> And it's use as a grocery store would be grandfathered. >> Yeah. >> Anything else would be a change of use. You would need to go through the proper permitting. >> But thanks for bringing that up because it is source. I mean it is many people
are about it. >> Yeah. >> Uh, anyone in >> Yeah, >> I know you're a spotlight on talent, but can we put the shades down because it's really hard to see? >> Uh, I mean, I think you just pull the ch. >> You don't want that glowing.
>> He's just He's just glowing. >> I need to bring a hat. Is that enough? >> Thank you. >> Sorry about my glow. I'm just excited to be here. Um, >> yes. Did you have
Sorry. >> Uh agenda item number two uh at 6:35 we are going to open public hearing from farm 359 King Street open space development
specialist special. So public hearing space development special permit storm water permit district special permit farm 359 street little planning board will hold a public hearing on Thursday June 25th 2026
multi-purpose room um the center multi-purpose room one the center on Shadic Street at 33 Shadic Street to consider applications for one an open space development special permit on section section 17393 through 173124.
Two, a storm water permit under section 38-11 through 38-67. And three, an Aquafer water resource district special permit under section 173-61 through 173-67. Follow Littleton Town Code. Property 359
King Street Map U8, lot 104. Owner applicant 359 King Street LLC. Dwight Long applicant proposes to redevelop the property with a 5unit residential open space cluster development. Less than one acre will be
used for the residential redevelopment and approximately five acres preserved as open space. Applications and plans can be viewed online at the planning board page of the town website at littlefa.org or at the planning board and the town clerk's office during their business
hours. Any person interested wishing to be heard on the proposed work should provide written comment to the planning board office or attend the public hearing. Any questions, please contact the planning board office and give us our um yes phone number and email address. And
I'm Margo Bloom, Steve Clerk. >> Um to begin um was reviewing the various comments. The fire department doesn't want you to call this blue farm. We can easily >> I I'm just cur I mean we're going to
talk about his bluebird farm and I just want people to know that end up not um that has nothing to do with our hearing but >> I know I read this I read the same Okay. Uh, can we hear from the applicant
who is here to speak uh about this project? >> Yes. Uh, Cheryl Gold attorney for the applicant. I'm coming late to the party. This was a plan designed by the engineer. I think he's done a very nice job. And
um, we can walk you through the pages and describe the site, describe what's going on here. I think it went out to peer review last week. I thought we would have some general discussion tonight, open the hearing, hear whether you have concerns, whether the abuters have concerns, bring that back to the
engineer when he's back from his vacation, and then perhaps um Maron expressed to me that we're missing a list of waiverss. Get those waiverss and get everything in line to go before peer review. That's okay with you.
So this is generally the site and I think the neighbors will see that the existing house in the front. >> Thank you. >> Oh, thank you very much. The existing house in the front, if
you're here long enough to remember, was owned by Richard and Pette Crowley, and they had a bunny barn, and they had other uh animals there. And then more recently, Dwight Loan purchased it and he had it rented for a while to um some
people that were running a donkey farm, annual farm. So, anyone who's familiar with that knows that this site was actively involved in farming. The site is pretty much up against King Street for the usable area, and that's the
acre. The back is dissected by an intermittent stream. Uh the town's been pouring water into that stream and there's been wetlands uh involvement. And if you open it up further, you can see that the proposal
is to build a a culde-sac entry road with the two units you see and a third new one and then to convert the old Krellley house into a um two family which is allowed by right because of the age of the house. And I think they're
going to make one unit, the top one there, uh, a reuse of the existing barn structure or the bunny barn structure. So, the two units on the right will be new units. Single family, threebedroom each.
And then the bunny barn will be a single family, threebedroom unit, and then the two family house will probably have uh two two units in it, each a single family with three bedrooms in it. There'll be a shared septic system for
those and there will be an entry and exit road that's, you know, fire department safe. We'll work with the fire department. Um, and the back is probably all going to be left in natural conservation and protected area for
perhaps more farm animals, more grazing as it has always been. >> Um, I'm sure we all have questions. Do you have any comments? >> Um, is there any intent to um put a
conservation easement on the back part of the >> um under the open space plan? We probably will put some conservation restrictions on it, but not open to the public because I think they're going to want to use it for animal grazing and
animal raising and perhaps a barrier or maybe um what's allowed under conservation laws, but to allow animals, >> I guess to follow up on that. So would it be animals owned like livestock owned by the people living in those homes? So
consider them still like farmhouses. >> Uh most likely. I mean I wouldn't rule out that we board someone else's animal. >> Okay. >> But but yes, most likely it will be the involvement of the homeowners to have farm rights or animal rights.
So we just need that properly restricted that there's no future housing development allowed in that space. >> I think under the open space limits >> we just proped that there's no misunderstanding about >> because I think they said >> I think they submitted the engineers
submitted a proof plan showing that the site would accommodate five units and that's where we're coming from GIS on the proof plan that would accommodate five units. I don't think there will be anymore and I don't think the wetlands were permit anymore. It's pretty wet.
>> Why or were you would you have been able to connect to the town? >> No, they're they were coming down King Street apparently, but then they reroute it on Shadic. >> On Shadow. Okay. I mean that because
seems like it would have been nice but yeah. >> Um go ahead. >> Yeah. Could you go to C 601? >> I can't tell which page it is. >> It's got purple on it. There it is.
>> You found it and then you lost it. It's hiding. >> Um could could you explain the purple for me? Um and then I probably have a follow-up question. So that's the um set back from the that's the uh 0 to I'm sorry that's the
50 to 100 set back of the um from the wetlands that that purple line. >> Let me just let me just introduce you Joe. >> I'm sorry >> also contractor contractor.
So this line here I'm sorry 5100 this one here is 0. So, so the dark line is the limit of work and so the purple is the limit of work that's within 100
>> which will be 1500 >> will be taken up by the conservation commission and it's there was some verbiage about remediation I mean there were a lot of planting on landscape >> we had >> yeah go ahead >> so we
we had a restoration plan that we implemented this spring for the pasture area planted a lot of um wildlife friendly plants. We have had um
two meetings with conservation. One was over the winter time to confirm that the area on the top of the screen right in the middle is an isolated wetland. And two weeks ago, we had a conservation
walk with the chairman of the conservation commission and the wetlands biologist from Guarded Associates and myself just to go over the footprint of the future work. So there's no no impact
on the wetlands other than what you see there in the plan. No trees will be removed that are existing trees to be able to construct these two houses. >> The dark black line, I presume, is a
retaining wall. >> Um, not so much a retaining wall, Mr. Chairman, as as much as just kind of a delineation of the edge of the path. If you walk down there now, you see a pathway that goes around the back of the
property. And that is just a long kind of access to get into the fields. So, so if you look, you you can't blow it up. You can't see it very well from here. If you look to the left of the black line, there's this weird looking
structure that goes all the way up through the through there. Is that a Is that I guess that's what I thought was the retaining wall. >> No, that's >> Is that a >> That's just really the edge of it. I mean, I don't think >> that rectangle. Is that >> No, if you if you look between 252 and
the dark black line. >> Oh, that that's the path. >> Is that the path? >> That's the path. >> Okay. I couldn't tell whether that was a retaining wall or path. That's why focusing on this particular >> and I assume the other was raised beds. >> It's going to be a garden. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
>> And then I like the idea of the garden down there. You know, it kind of bumps out, but I I wouldn't like to see that turn into an ADU pad in the future. And if there's language is that within the web zones that somebody has authority to
sort of talk about that or >> that is not that's more so that is in the that is in the buffer zone but it's really upland area that that will be somewhat elevated for the that that planting bed. There's no active wetlands
in that in that spot at the present time. The only the only activity with respect to wetlands is really where you see all these numbers on the plan. Those are the streams that Attorney G was speaking about.
>> Forgive me, but I also think through the chair to Mr. Baker, I also think that the septic size is going to limit the possibility of an ADU just because it's we're not going to size it for extra septic capacity. It's
three bedrooms times five uh structures or five units. >> Could you describe the form of ownership of these units? It it will be one. Just describe what you're
thinking. It'll probably be as you do with all open spaces a condominium form of ownership and each unit will get an exclusive use area granted to it and they will share access and the cost of access maintenance and uh septic. It's
typical in these units to share landscaping as part of the homeowner's fees so that the landscaping stays nice even if one owner himself can't afford to do his own exclusive use area. Um my only my only comment and observation
coming here tonight was I think that's an awful lot of culde-sac road infrastructure for four units bearing in mind it's five it's five families but it's one it's four units because one is a two family
and I am going to ask the engineer and the fire department to look at whether we can't minimize the impervious area and the imposition of road and gravel and runoff and discharge on that small site. But that's I mean that's what's
presented to you tonight to look at and to comment. Love to hear your feedback on whether you'd like a reduction in that. I I that doesn't bother me mainly because anyone visiting any of these residents
or any party or whatever will have to park somewhere King Street is really not the place. So to the extent that it's exaggerated, I think that it's useful for you know that purpose. But that's my opinion.
>> Good input. Thank you. Is there any tell them is there any um guess representation of what these two new structures look like? >> So they'll be rant style. Mr. Long and
his wife Mary L will be living in one. Mrs. long has aggressive form of MS. So he's trying to make it handic he's not trying to we will make that unit handicap accessible in all capacities. So, uh, farmhouse
ranch style, very low profile, much like the model that we used on, um, Robinson Road, those those units in the back there, that kind of story and a half where we we presently have done an architectural plan, excuse me, for the
um, two family and once that is underway, Dwight will then engage the architect to complete those units. I was happy to see that you were reusing the existing the
totally existing structure because I think what you showed us before our informal discussion part of the existing building was torn down it anyway I think it's great to keep and the next question I had asked this was has there been any
engagement with the historic commission >> okay and what >> we had we had uh multiple meetings and they gave us approval based on our our design. We're not changing uh size of the barn. We're just bumping out the house a little bit on the back.
So from the street, everything will look basically identical. We heard I someone told me that since the Littleton Giant apparently lived there at some point, there's some rooms in the existing house that have extra tall ceilings. Is that true?
>> I think for a house that was built in the 1800s, there are part of the house does I mean there's 8ft ceilings. House that was built in the 1800s, >> an old farmhouse. And then there's a couple doors that are extra tall.
>> Oh, maybe it was the doors. Okay. I don't know how many people know about the Littleton Giant. I am not the authority, but there was at some point someone in town called the Littleton Giant. And I think his giant shoe is in the historic society. And you know,
that's about all I know. >> And how tall was he? >> I have no idea. >> I think like 7 foot 10. >> We are, Mr. Chairman, we are dismantling the barn portion of the house because it's not we've done an
analysis of it. We had a structural engineer go in and it's not we do not have the ability to remodel it. We have to put a foundation underneath it. So, we will take the barn portion apart, but we will be rebuilding
it. So, it looks almost identical to the present uh streetscape that you see at this at this time. >> You have experience with that? >> Little bit. >> And it'll allow you to have a full base. >> Yes. Okay. Um
Okay. So, any other questions? I mean I think as we indicated at the first meeting that the informal meeting we had in the suite in general were um favor you know favorable for this and um
as I understand it from the planning point of view and one reason she asked for waiverss is that um would you explain what the sort of technicality? >> Right. So, our open space development bylaw references the design guidelines
and the subdivision control and the subdivision regulations and the town regulations and um any the planning board has the right to grant waivers from those subdivision regulations but you have to have the list of waiverss granted. So, and we of course will, you
know, look forward to whatever waiverss are required. We're look forward to um helping that along. >> And that'll also ease the peer review process because rather than reviewing to the subs.
>> Okay. Um now we're at the point where are there any butters or residents in the room like to ask questions or make comments. >> Yes, >> sure. I'd like to know about the uh soil
that we have in the area, the groundwater level and uh the uh type of septic system that you um can you go back to the I believe it's uh the very one of the first plans. So
Steve, we test pitted the um very thoroughly the last one. >> We tested >> Yep. >> And that's all sand and gravel. And I believe from what I recently
soil change obviously is one little thing when you get into the hydro soil back here, but this It's all fantastic. >> Good. What type of septic system are they looking at?
>> It'll be a um system in the in the culdeac one. Actually, it's this box right here. Sorry, I'm not tall enough, but um it will be in that area there. And the reser Thank you, Mar. And
reserve field will be adjacent to it. Any idea of type stone and pipe? Looking at chambers looking at >> um I believe it's going to be chambers but I'm not I'm not the designer but I
we we just finished the preliminary testing. >> Okay. >> Yes. else. >> Thank you. >> You sir, could you identify yourself for the record? >> Sure. Steve Collegeman.
>> You about >> I'm about a three roll. >> Thank you. Um, anything else like as I understand
initiative? >> Uh, is that true? >> Okay. >> So, we will get the um um waver >> the list of waiverss um as soon as our engineer gets back and get those
tomorrow and as soon as possible. Um Marin, would it be when would it be appropriate to schedule the next? >> So the board's next regular meeting is July 9th. >> So our next meeting is the 9th.
So the question is whether we think the peer review is going to be ready by the night. Was it sent off or not? Fee was paid right before the Friday holiday. >> Yes. The the contract been signed. Um but
some of what we're waiting for is that list. >> So so I think the method would work. We can always postpone if uh if the engineer and green haven't had a chance to go back and forth. >> So I I want you to understand that
Lauren's point is is if we had the list of waiverss the purity would be less expensive than it was un understood. We just aren't going to see the engineer till he returns. I think he had places with the Scotsman back.
>> Oh like a home swap or something? >> I think so. Um, okay. So, let's uh have him back in. Let's do the same thing. 635.
>> Well, do you want to do it that way? If we don't make it. >> Okay. Well, we'll schedule the next one earlier than otherwise. So, any time Okay.
>> Uh make a motion to continue the hearing until July 9th at 6:35. >> We'll be back at this. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I thank you. >> Thank you very much for your time.
>> Okay. So, disposed. So we have agenda wise make an amendment. >> So you're on 7:15 or no?
>> Oh great. Um is there an HDMI or Martin? I have a a USB too if that's easier. >> I'll grab it. This is crazy. So, uh, let me just say that this informal discussion is to update,
um, the board and our community on things of 550 King and 14. What's this? We need to hit something. >> Will you be able to pick up Good to see you. The historical commission was great. I get to draw the site plan by hand.
I don't know why us instead of them. You want to try the thumb drive? >> I was going to say the thumb drive. Yeah, there should be an option where you can pick to duplicate it. >> Yeah, >> but it's not showing up. So, sorry about
that. >> That should not work out. You plugged in the situation Going to need you to act out a long night. trouble. >> That expression talking about design is
like singing about architecture. You're going to have to sing about >> Oh, no. It's jaw come up. >> I just want to plug it into Is it possible to throw it up there over the Wi-Fi? If we had a Zoom set up, we could share,
but we don't present Sorry about this guys. I don't know why this was >> recogniz It is on our screen. >> We can share this now and then we'll post this um to the planning board page of the website.
>> Okay. >> I'm gonna call Mark really quick, but when I come >> this way forward help if I do that too for I can >> res We don't have this >> quick. Go ahead. So, Mr. Chair, members
of the board, Morgan Pearson with the Poly Companies, um here before you this evening to provide a preview of our upcoming submission um where we'll be back before the board on July 9th. Just want to recognize some members of
the team here from Lei. We have S and Mary as well as Gary Armstrong from our team who you are familiar with. Um so if we go to the next slide Marin. Um we're providing I think a very familiar site
plan to the board here. Wanting to highlight the upcoming submissions really which is focused on sort of the left side of the plan. Um at 410 Grey Road, we plan to submit for uh approximately 84 deeply affordable and
senior housing affordable units um at at Fort Tempe Road. Um and then what we are also submitting what we're calling phase two of the retail which consists of um what we're calling sort of an anchor retail tenant uh that's outside the
forbase code as well as a smaller um retail building that's along our main boulevard in the project and then also um establishing the relocation of the tunnel house. Um on that front there is an update for the board. We we were able
to meet with the historical commission and they unanimously voted in favor of the relocation of the title for this location. They um were very pleased with uh our preservation of the building and uh the location of it and I I would uh
compliment the board as well because I think that was a a joint effort. >> Yes. Um, thank you. U, that was a I think that was a a collaborative effort with this board to to suggest that location and and our team worked on making it
possible. Um, and so we were happy to to get their support for the total house relocation. Um, other things I want to highlight on this for you, and I'm sorry I don't have a laser pointer, but what you'll also see in the coming months, um, and we like to try to
overcommunicate with the town and the board on this, is additional retail opposite the King Street green, we'll call it, as a placeholder, um, right in that white box there, as well as potentially, um, sort of block 500 above
that. Thank you, Martin. Um, and the idea there is is sort of a preview is is housing as well as retail. So, really being consistent with the master plan, special permit approval going back and forth in that front. The point I would just make in addition to that heads up
to the board is that, and you've heard this before from us, but it's just very important to have all this flow through. We we obviously don't want to have uh an open end on the on the green. We want the the retail to speak to it each other and the retail tenants themselves really
want to see that um critical mass being created and developed. So all these pieces are very important to to making getting really lift off on a lot of this. Um and so you you'll see that in in the coming months as well. I wanted to just provide the board that heads up and also just reiterate the importance
of it to the overall development of the of the project. So if we go to the next slide, Maren, this is a zoom in at 410 Great Road. Again, I do want to reiterate, we wanted to come before the board to provide a preview. So our team,
our engineers and architects are as we speak, literally working on the submission for Monday um in in order to to uh to to present at the July 9th meeting. So this will continue to evolve through today, tomorrow, the weekend uh
before the submission. But, you know, we've we've come a long way in collaboration with Hebrew Senior Life, which is a group I think this board has heard from um earlier this month. Um, and I think as uh some some would agree,
they're just an incredible group um that has been around since the early 1900s, probably one of the longest standing senior housing developers, investors in in Massachusetts. And we feel very fortunate to be able to have partnered with them. um and they have been in lock step with us as we've advanced this plan
here. Um some other things just to note. So if you on the left side is the ground floor, on the right side is the second level and kind of it goes up from there. Um on the right side of the plan you'll see kind of a little bit of a park. That is the Elastics Monument Park that we're proposing. We're continuing to advance
the design on that. But as the board may recall, as part of the special permit approval, we agreed to provide um you know, a monument to the history of the building. And um and so we're looking to kind of integrate that with this project
um and also provide, you know, as we've continued to learn through Hebrew Senior Life, what they call sort of a senior walking loop. So throughout this this campus, there'll be a walking loop for the residents here, and it's really nice to be able to integrate both the history and the the exercise and the and the
open space. So, we're we're excited about that. They're they're thrilled about that as well. Um, so this is this is continuing to progress. You see the phase two there. Um, you know, we're continuing to noodle on that to provide more housing. We've spoken to that, but but for now, we're just focused on this first this first piece with the
affordable senior housing. And if you advance smart, this is probably too much information, but we wanted to just show that the progress we're making and the amenity spaces we're creating. Um, you know, we're really getting into uh the project
itself and the breakout of the different rooms and layouts. You can sort of cycle through this part if you'd like to. >> I I just have one question. Why Why do you have the unexavated? >> Yeah. So the site, if you recall, or if you've driven up Great Road, there's just a lot of gray change. And so what
we're trying to do is have the building do some of that work for us and capturing different parts of the gray change. Um, and our design and engineering team felt like that right there was a was a place we could it sort of helps carry that some of that gray change going from King Street down great
road. So, some of that amenity space on the right side there, there won't be really any windows in that back side, but that works for some of the programming for Hebrews in your life. But again, it the building is acting as um not really retaining wall, but it helps carry that. >> Oh, that makes sense. >> I just was curious why you just didn't
excavate the whole area. You had the >> Yeah, I mean, we're trying to capture some of that that ground floor space as much as we can. And I see what you're saying. Yeah, we're trying to make it economical as well. our engineers might I don't know if Gary if you have a a smarter answer to that but I think they're they've thought through it and that's what that's what they've
determined makes the best sense so if we keep going Maren >> yeah so this this is that that anchor tenant I mentioned um this is a really as we've said in the past but a very vital element of the retail it connects
everything together as we've been advancing conversations with other retailer tenants they're very focused on making I'm sure we have a group like this coming in or sorry a retail building the size that is as they call it an anchor tenants driving a lot of
traffic to the site in a good way so they come shop and come to the site in general. This is outside the formbbased code um but it fits nicely here. And um if you go to the next image you know we have a again this is a preview rendering of what it
might look like. um we're probably taking some liberties with some of the trees there, but it's uh you know, it's a it's a it's a very good looking building. And in the background there, you see um some some of the uh future resi that we're we're tending to uh that
we have approved already, actually. So, >> my my only comment on the site plan, well, you can go through and I can make it later. Okay. Um and then moving down towards King Street again we have the tunnel house which I
mentioned and in this retail uh building we are looking to attract a bank for this site and and therefore you see on this plan although it's not very clear we do intend and as part of the submission you will see um a drive-thru which is which is really important to
those banks. Um, this isn't allowed use under the the bylaws and code, but um, it fits really nicely here. Um, and we are making every effort to make it comply and and meet all of the form based code. Although it turns out that
most of the building is not actually within that um that area, but still again we wanted to match with the rest of the the property and the project that that the board is very familiar with. It's much more facing on King Street. So, um, and if you go to the next slide, you can sort of get a preview. This is
not a professional rendering that you're used to seeing from us. This is from the architect. So, it's it's a little bit isolated, but you get a sense of the way we're we're advancing this. Um, again, in keeping with some of the the design you've seen throughout the um throughout the village, this is not going to be as
visible whether you're on King Street or Great Road, but it certainly is part of the main entry experience to the project. But um it's not really going to be as past maybe um layouts you the board has seen where it was like right on the road or something somewhere
closer. It's a little bit further back. So um anyway, we're happy with the the way this is turning out and evolving. And then if you go to one more slide, again, this is a draft working with our landscape architect of how that layout could be. This is continuing to evolve,
but you see some of the the greenery we're adding there and how the tunnel house fits in. Um, I think the board has heard we are appreciative of the flexibility of being able to relocate just the front portion of tunnel or the entirety of it depending on how, you
know, what's what's the best um approach from a leasing standpoint, how we can activate that building and have it used. So, um, for now, we're showing the full building being relocated for the sake of this u, but I wanted to preview this again with the board to show you how it's
advancing. I think that's really it. Um that's that's what we wanted to share with you. Both kind of a look double look ahead and then also a preview of what what's to come uh Monday when we submit. >> Okay. Um
>> um yeah, if you could go back to the anchor store on the Yeah. Um there I my first thought was was you've got a street going through there. That's the car
and the street needs buildings on the side of it. I would think that you just want to put the store closer to that street and parking in back of it. >> Yeah. I mean what we're doing here is we're advancing conversations with specific tenants. We are looking to
their expertise on what works best for their operation and and that is what you're seeing here is is is really extensive conversations. >> That's that's a standard suburban mall piece. >> This village is not a standard suburban >> which is why I think we were happy that
we could put it off of the because that's not King Street on Plant South. Just to be clear, that's our interior. >> That's your interior street. It's going to be a lot of traffic. We need to I think it needs to be defined with buildings even though a large part of that is the parking garage in building
13. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I mean again what I think what they would say and I what the tenants were talking to is that the the their customers really want to see clearly where the parking is and I think that's why that model works. Um again we have
this off the road. So from our standpoint we like the activation of it. It's it's um you know and and this right side here, the parcel sort of 500 we're calling it that will have more frontage on that main road too. So I think that'll help soften or or or maybe
activate what you're talking about there. >> That said 500 is the big white space in the middle. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Future housing. Correct. Correct. Um, so there'll be retail on the ground floor of that.
>> Um, not there's not there's no current plan for that to have any retail there. Yeah, we're really trying to confine the the retail to the main village that the >> Anchor and the bank sort of form one axis and then the rest of the retail continues. >> That's correct. That's exactly right.
>> I would I would echo what um if I could just jump on on that. Sure. >> What Bartlett's saying as you showed the bank and then this building. I don't know if we can flip between them, but I respect like the bank because it's kind of bleeding out
of the the formbased code area. >> Um, and then you've got the I think it was labeled like neighborhood market on some of the plans opposite it. um that's going to be like a transition point
between the the aesthetic of the formbbased code and then what feels very much not like that. And um like the initial shot there and I know this is kind of FPO of the the neighborhood market. It feels very austere without
windows and kind of like the circuit city kind of monolithic there. And I'm wondering, can you introduce elements to make it a smoother transition and like some of the things like form based code calls for things to be pulled up to the street more in like that that
street that's cutting through maybe as Bartlett suggested pushing some more of the parking behind it or maybe not having quite as much parking up there in the front and then introduce some design elements so that it's not a stark change but maybe more of like a smoother
aesthetic transition. position there. >> Yeah, I hear you. I we'll we'll sort of talk with the the group that we're heavily pursuing. Um, you know, we want, you know, we're put in a place where we don't want to disadvantage their their ability to have success and they they you know, we rely on their expertise to
say this is how our stores function best. What I would say though is um you know we wanted to show you this image this rendering and um just as a as a sense but it really it's more of a you know it's we're clear we're making a statement that this is way more visible
than maybe perhaps it it ends up being and also I I'll tell you there was some AI gymnastics in here to make this happen and so the building will will look I think much better than that and a lot a lot more compelling but um but I certainly I hear I hear your hear you
>> and and I hear your point about like trying to work with potential retail tenants about what is attractive to them. I think just looking at at Littleton's interests as this being not something that is dropped into Littleton but kind of a new entryway into retail
in Littleton and a new kind of another front door into this space. um to make that a little bit more inviting and welcoming I would think would be good for whoever is occupying that space then too >> because I don't know because I thought it was going to be further down based on
when you actually look at the site but so the rendering may not be there but you could you could also look at putting some kind of false facade activ you know pieces on there just so that you know it's not a brick building >> doesn't affect the functionality but it
you know affects And we're still advancing landscaping too that that isn't shown in that as well. So >> yeah, because like if you look here, it's seems to be much further down. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um just flip back to that other drawing for a second.
>> No, the other one. >> The the the other thing I would say too, and Gary just made a great point. If we go back to that point, Yeah. Thank you. is, you know, we also are very mindful of where the loading is for this particular building and trying to keep it away from, you know, the housing and the residential and also not have it be
up front or visible from Great Road or visible even from the village itself. So, there is a a tidiness to having it in this location. And, you know, I will say, you know, this never comes through in these plans, but we've spun this building around. We've looked at different prototypes from them. We've we
put it all over the place. And um so it's not like we just plopped it in. It was it was there was a lot that got to this point which um you know it's a bit of a Goldilock situation where it works for them. It works for the adjacencies. We're not you know we're not harming the future residential uses. Um and so you
know this is this is uh I mean we're very pleased with it but we understand I hear you certainly on some of your points. I just the one thing that strikes me being an engineer is um I'm not sure how well you're delivering trucks are going to flow into that lot.
>> Yes. Pretty good. >> Yeah. >> Truck turning with a WP67 through there. If you'll notice, we've the edges of the >> see the out. >> So you come in. Yeah. You come in right left and you pull up and you back in back in. So we've already gone through all the effort in that. I mean again
strategically the placement of it how it's oriented as Morgan was saying that balance of where the parking goes allowing the trucks around keeping the loading where it's in the most uh convenient spot not to take away from
the rest of the facility is a lot of what went into that but truck route's been done >> and if you see that hashed area Darl too that's where the truck is we can't have parking there right yeah so >> no I'm looking at it it just strikes me and maybe it's because it's undimensioned and stuff. But yeah, that
green spot next to the plus 270 the right hand side of that you you eased the out on the on the thing there, but that's not eased. So I it just seems like it's going to be a really sharp corner for the delivery trucks to make
right there. Your engineers are probably going to look at it, but it strikes me as is that is going to be tight right there. >> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. And you know the people who are going to be the strongest of opinion and that of course is the tenant and they're going to make sure that we make make that work because that's that's vital to the operation as
you can imagine. >> Anyway, I but overall I you know I I have any problems with the presenting here tonight. >> Thank you. >> I was going to comment on the loading because I think you have to defer as
much as possible to the housing next door. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and design it, you know, but but I would concur with Bartlett and Marggo's
points. You could have something pretty wonderful up against the street, uh, which would be much more visible to people coming driving into the
put it this way. Consider people driving in that the boulevard. If this is forward and you know you had that expression, you know, anyway, it could be architecturally designed. Your architects can do it. It could draw
people in. It would also, you know, one of the stated intentions of this is to engage the uh, you know, the rest of the community into having the store and to uh, piggy back off the store to go into
the retail. Well, right now you would parked go into the store. you'd have to move your car otherwise you'd have to walk through a parking lot. I don't know. I just think that you
ought to consider carefully integrating that whole system right right now. It seems and I understand I'm just these are just comments. It it is it it is like a circuit city in a mall parking lot and you can do better
than that. That's all. >> Yep. I we hear you and we appreciate the feedback. Um you know one thing I will work on better displaying too for the ninth is just I think it is helpful to to remember and remind the community too about that form based code area.
I I know we take our comments or not, but I think that um >> that if you look at the whole context, it's very separate um because of its location and you've created this potentially really and with further
development, it's just set off on its own. And that may be how it's used, but we've also heard that the retailers want it to be part of their deal. And you know, people don't want to have to get into their car and out of their car and repark their car and do all that
kind of stuff. So that's all >> the and Jeff, which I think are all good points, the retailers really like this as well. and the consumers who are going to the retail shops because they can
park there and then they're actually closer to going over to the retail village by being able to park right in front of um that building. But also, if you guys recall over from 410, it was really difficult to make this strategic
move with this group um and a couple of other groups that we're talking to, but that's their preference to have it sit this way. Totally understand. And I think we should show you more views to give you a better feel. >> Yeah. And this is the case where your um AI
>> aren't really pres I mean I noticed trees in the middle of the sidewalk and you know >> Yeah. >> Anyway, that's you know that's fine. It gives us something to go on. >> Wait, that's not okay. >> Well, they might not live
>> and for safety with the loading too. If you are parking everyone behind the building where the loading has to be that is like a safety hazard. >> Well, the loading could be on you know the left hand. I I don't think the issue of of the view from Great Road is an issue at all. It will not be seen from
Great Road because of the grade change. Um it what I don't want to you know we're not designing it. We're just making comments. which are all >> as you um as you talk to the potential
retail tenant for there uh and I don't know like what sort of research you're sharing on Littleton but I know with as we were discussing earlier with changes a foot at the Littleton Donalins
um I've been hearing a lot more interest in what can we have as sort of a a more local, accessible, approachable, smaller size, inviting market. And that's not from people living here, but from people
living here just in Littleton. And um so I think that'll be that can be really attractive because the push back from people that I've heard of like market basket sometimes is just too too much and um how Donalins has offered that
kind of easy in and out smaller footprint um kind of more accessible price points on some things. Uh, it seems like this is definitely like right time, right place. And if it can have that same sort of like warm, inviting
feeling from like the architecture on the outside and then however it's situated, um, that that seems like it could be a real win to take all those things into account. >> For sure. No, no, we we really appreciate that. I I think what I would just and I don't mean to keep you know
we hope we're not sounding defensive but I I would just reiterate something Mary said which was great and that is you know we have done our own gymnastics on our side to try to keep that kind of tenant that you're exactly what you're talking about. I think there's there's a lot of positive there >> and and so with with that we're sort of picking our own battles sometimes too
saying you know if this works and you're excited still you're not going to go away okay let's let's make this work. Um, so we're we're balancing all those things, but we certainly, you know, we're here to listen. We're here to take some of this feedback and see what we can do. And I certain we certainly hear you loud and clear. Um, and we'll see what we can we can do. I can I can
certainly tell you that. And uh, but we are really excited about this tenant. We're trying to trying to get uh, locked in here. >> How does this compare in square footage to Donins? I know it's like is that like 30,000 or >> I think I actually don't know how big that that Don >> I think it's actually I think
>> I think it's smaller. I think the whole plaza is like 38,000. I don't know what that store is. >> Yeah, >> this is and this is that sort of rare but but both a strong tenant that's also smaller and it's not, you know, a market basket size and so it it's a little bit
of it's it's a it's a really nice fit. We're excited. >> Very playful inside in the interiors to your exact. >> How does it compare to like Trader Joe's as far as just square footage and >> very it's like very very similar. Maybe a little bigger depending on the Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's has a couple different footprints and it's that is
one of the footprints. So very similar in size. I don't know to the Actton one specifically, but um very similar size. Some Trader Joe's are actually larger than that too. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I think next time if you just you know the rendering that you had kind of is pretty obscure. If you had a
better rendering I think that would that would make it easier for people to see you know I mean you really have just two choices. the top or the right hand side for the primary entrance. So, if you just showed how your entrance was. >> Yeah. And how it feels more like it's actually not as maybe as far back as it
might seem, but um No, I appreciate that. >> More inviting. >> Yeah. And um I I just really wanted to be able to show you something, but um maybe that was supposed to be >> No, I think it was fine. I It prompted the discussion so that there you got some feedback. >> Good.
Is this such a different kind of retail that it doesn't make sense to put it at the end of the retail street that you have? Because I was just thinking put the hotel there and put the retail at the end of with all the other stores.
>> Yeah. I mean, we've thought about it. It's very hard to keep the within the formbbased code approach with this and and and and they just they really need a specific type of layout and they need a parking ratio that We were just very very pleased that we
could find this little corner to put it in that that makes sort of everybody happy. But for some of the what we're hearing tonight, but um I think it would feel a little bit out of place. Bartlet, honestly, right at the King Street. >> That's a fair that's a fair comment, but I did at first I didn't know what
what what kind of retail it was. >> What? So, we'll see the next phase of the housing, but how many units are you planning in the big white rectangle?
>> We're targeting um probably like 140 to to 175. And we're still working on that plan. It's being driven a lot by parking and uh and construction costs right now. So, we're trying to be thoughtful about it. Um, you know, as always, we're trying to
continue to advance the amount of housing, but please don't hold me to that number. That's what we're talking. >> Sure. I'm just curious because you had said, uh, previously that, you know, you're shifting, um,
you know, in the overall special permit site plan, um, there were more housing. There's more housing planned here, but you said there will be more housing built in site, which I think could be very appropriate.
>> Okay. Uh what else? Do we have any project updates on construction or >> No, we I mean what I would just say is we continue to advance the drawings on on the village and the residential buildings. Um and uh you know, we're pushing our team as fast as we can to
continue to advance those. or we're pricing out some of that those drawings as they uh as they they reach certain milestones. >> Oh, pricing that has to happen. >> Yeah, it does. And and sometimes that pricing is more than we thought. So, we you know, we're we're continuing to to look at that. But, uh but it's going
well and uh you know, the team is is handling everything we throw at them for now at least. >> So, would you mind you know talking about a master schedule. So, if you could put a couple intermediate ones like when do you expect your permitting? You got you got your site permits plans now. So when would be your permitting
package >> and you know and and then estimated construction start date >> would be two nice milestones to have in there because those are the questions that get asked a lot. >> Yep. I mean just as the board knows that it will be a moving target but we can try to give you a sense of it and I knew
you were gonna ask I'm sorry I should have prompted I I I was going to put it in this but I didn't update it in time so >> informal >> but for July Yeah. Exactly. >> But July 9th we we'll have that as as usual. >> Yeah. just so that people gonna feel can understand the you know um what the next
milestones are and you know what your planning horizon is on those. When do you when would you um actually move the tunnel house? >> You have to demolish the existing buildings. There's >> Yeah.
>> Site storm water pond there. >> Yeah. I mean, we're going to have to look at the the sequencing of all the retail villages and then also maybe will depend on too on you know how far >> you do that because it's part of the town green but it's also part of >> That's right. >> What are you calling the retail the
So this you're calling phase two retail and then what is the other retail on the other side of the comment? Is that phase phase three? Yeah. >> 2.5. >> I've been thinking of phase two. That's why I'm question. Okay. >> Yeah. I would just sort of think of the >> next you know. Yeah.
>> I mean one two three might have worked but it's sequencing it's not the same. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. We'll and you know that's one of the things the um historical commission asked us and we we promised to keep them in uh in touch and rather in touch with them and let them know when we were going to be moving and um you know
that'll be a a fun project to follow up to see much move down the street but u so there'll be a lot of talk before that happens keep you all a breast >> I think that I know we've talked about like PR and enga community engagement and all I think that will be a a pivotal
thing to draw the community around and talk about like the history of it wasn't always here. >> Now it's going to its next location and how that's a positive thing and everything >> closer to the common. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I think to be able to
have that kind of communication from you all. It's like here's how we're we're literally like helping to lift up a part and set it down here but like to lift it up and we're all coming together around it. I think that'll be um that's necessary communication, not just for
like the feel-good side of things, but to ensure people feel really fully invested in this. >> Well, that reminds me, Marggo, I appreciate it. One of the things we're working on before construction is is to put together sort of a landing page for the community that'll be public. So, I help provide regular updates or
semi-regular updates on construction and what's going on. And um you know, we found in other communities that's really helpful keeping people up to speed on how the project's advancing. if for some reason they think something's slowing down, we can maybe respond to that and that or if it's speeding up or if there's noise or whatever. So, um you
know, that's important to us as well. And of course, that would be a part of it for sure. >> And we can get the community to lift the house with us all at once just >> Yeah. Like ribbons off the bottom. I don't know. >> Fun like ribbon cutting or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think like the same way that
we're asking about timeline having beyond just a website like analog two-dimensional just a sign like multiple signs on there that are like here's what's coming next rather than coming soon in 2025. >> Yes. Yeah. For sure. Well, that's a but
that's a good example too where we want to be, you know, we want to make sure we put up there with what's really happening and can once we have even more confidence in it, then we'll be able to absolutely go forward with that and it'll be a lot clearer. So, I appreciate that. The signs will be updated with what's approved. >> Yeah. >> So, we will absolutely put those in
because you're 100% correct. >> I think even if you need to keep it vague, just to keep it current is >> No, you're right. Totally right. >> Build trust. >> It's good. It's a good piece. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much. >> Um Well, thank you all for Well, I
should We have one member of the community here with no comments. >> Thank Thank you, Rob. We appreciate that. Motion to return. >> Yes. May I have a motion to return? >> Motion to return. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I
>> So we are um schedule an exam. >> Oh, we're going to open. So let's do it.