WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=alaX7L9c5Cg NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: alaX7L9c5Cg): - 00:00:11: Board Business: Meeting Minutes and Future Dates Discussion - 00:03:09: Closing Peer Review Accounts & Returning Funds - 00:04:47: Public Input: Policy on Traffic and Pedestrian Mitigation - 00:07:38: Endorsement of Amended Subdivision Myars and Covenant - 00:20:57: Public Hearing: Storm Water Enhancements or Renovations - 00:39:15: Public Hearing: King Street Common 550 Town Green - 00:40:33: Introduction from Holding Companies on Town Green - 00:40:48: Thank You from Sali for the Work on the Project - 00:45:27: The Board wants the Project to be Successful - 00:47:22: Concerns about Economic Headwinds Affecting The Project - 00:52:33: Wow: Anticipation for the Green Design Presentation - 00:53:21: Discussion About Small Shops and Small Entrepreneurs - 00:57:26: Excitement from Developers about Residents Ideas - 01:03:52: Experience with Job Growth & Economic Development - 01:10:30: Question about a Sal Pizza at the Site - 01:11:23: Plans for 410 Great Road: Senior Housing - 01:17:08: Transition to Town Green Presentation: Continued Public Hearing - 01:19:48: Town Green Project: Heart of Open Space - 01:24:59: Various Events with Daily Programming Ideas - 01:27:25: Handle Grade Change, Shallow Terraced Jumps - 01:30:57: Overlaying on Scale Comparisons: Sense of Space - 01:35:48: Discussion: Provide Tuttle House, Existing Landscape - 01:40:08: Various Options that You Could Go Through - 01:44:00: Rules and Regulations: Public and Programming Space - 01:47:38: Breakup Even More the Grove: Add More Trees - 01:51:12: Lawns: What About Dogs Too By The Way? - 01:53:35: Share: Survey Littleton Residents or Engage With People - 02:01:05: Public Comments: Reusing Granite and Existing Plants - 02:03:03: Farms Market: Improving the Viability of Farms - 02:10:34: Reschedule Continue Meeting, Storm Water - 02:12:23: Adjourn: Marion, Can you introduce this topic - 02:13:31: Covenant Issue, Details of Who we building Part: 1 1 00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:30.240 We're here uh Thursday, June 30th uh for the planning board meeting scheduled for today. Uh we have an agenda and the first item on the agenda is board business. First item, minutes of priorities, April 2 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:55.199 2nd, 2026. Did anyone have any comments? >> Uh, that being said, may I have a motion? Motion to accept the minutes of April 2nd. And I have a second. >> Second. >> Uh, all in favor? Next, uh, item, planning board meeting. 3 00:00:55.199 --> 00:01:24.320 Um our next planning board meeting is May 14th after the town meeting. So Cooper had sent around um packet of the suggested meeting dates. I mean, at the time I looked at them, at 4 00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:47.759 least for the summer, it was clear for me. >> So, um, I guess staff request is just if you're going to be away for any of those dates, um, let us know and we'll certainly work around that. Um, does anyone have any specific 5 00:01:47.759 --> 00:02:06.159 uh plans that would interfere with at least the next three or four days? >> So, we have Thursday, June 4th, if Thursday, July 9th, Thursday, August 6 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:26.239 6th, and Thursday, September 3rd. How does that work with when is Labor Day this year? >> Um those are clear from my vacation plans >> I think. So maybe >> so those would be the regular meetings and then the lower part of the there are 7 00:02:26.239 --> 00:02:50.560 extra meetings August and September and Any other comments? Mark, can you >> I could try to >> pencil your travels and I will work around your schedule. 8 00:02:50.560 --> 00:03:10.080 >> I think uh yeah, I think the only one I would miss is October 1st, >> but August 6 might be an issue. I don't think it is. >> Anyway, okay. >> Thank you. >> Um peerreview accounts to close. Martin has been going through various 9 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:25.599 peerreview accounts and is commissioned to return unspent money. >> Yeah. And accounting requires a vote at the board in order to close the account and return the funds to the rightful 10 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:41.280 owner which is the developer whoever deposited the funds on behalf. >> Can you go over the >> Yeah. Um, so the latest one, um, 64 Beaverbrook Road, um, that was the more recent, um, ANR and storm water peer 11 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:56.480 review on Beaverbrook Road. Um, Chestnut Farm, um, one of the older ones. >> Um, and then, um, Monarch Drive. So, those three are ready to be closed. 12 00:03:56.480 --> 00:04:12.239 >> So, do we have any, um, comments on that? >> We don't have any outlets, Sandy. of any >> right and no outstanding appointments. >> Um, may I have a motion to close the 13 00:04:12.239 --> 00:04:29.360 accounts that Mar just outline? >> Second. >> We need a roll call. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. How much was it, by the way? 14 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:47.840 How much were we carrying? Um, well, Beaverbrook Road was $430. Chestnut Farms $180, Monarch Drive $390, and then >> The next item on the agenda is uh public 15 00:04:47.840 --> 00:05:05.759 input. Do we have anyone here like to speak? I don't see uh anyone. Um, so it being now 6:35, we can go to the next item. Republican question. >> No, no, not before. 16 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:22.320 >> Oh, I apologize. That's this This is Yeah, thank you. Um, trying to get to 635. Uh, policy on traffic and mitigation. Uh, Mark, can you explain your um concern on this? >> Um, yeah, not a concern, just a question 17 00:05:22.320 --> 00:05:38.160 that had come up. Um so the planning board does have a policy in place on um traffic and pedestrian mitigation. It calls for um a deposit um from developers for $100 for every new um 18 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:55.120 parking space um in a development. Uh the planning board has uh implemented that in the past only in cases that a developer is not um has not come forward with any uh traffic or pedestrian 19 00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:12.639 mitigation or has come with with with not sufficient mitigation in in the eyes of the board. And I heard the question asked of well why isn't the planning board implementing this policy for uh the 550 King Street? So, but 20 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:30.400 quick answer to that is that um the um development of proposal um the parts of it that you've approved already, you're still under the current number of parking spaces that are on that site. So, you haven't gotten to the point of where you'd be looking at new 21 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:47.120 parking spaces on the site or additional parking spaces on the site. So, that's the first reason that you haven't started that conversation. And then I would suggest that this developer has um offered significant traffic and pedestrian mitigation. So 22 00:06:47.120 --> 00:07:05.360 you would take that into account if you choose to have that conversation at a later date. So, just for anyone watching this, um there were an existing 2,000 or so parking spots on the site and we have 23 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:20.960 not um done site plan review, not even close to that. >> Well, we will in the future. >> We will in the future and then we can take this up whether the mitigation um offered by the developer is sufficient 24 00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:38.960 to uh not this amount of money. Um, okay. It has passed 6:35. The next uh item on the agenda is agenda is the endorsement of the amended 25 00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:56.639 subdivision myars and covenant 20-day appeal period has elapsed. Uh, we have them with us. It was raining. So, we did not bring the line over. >> Okay. >> But, um, >> this is going to cause you trouble 26 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:12.319 anyway. >> Um, >> yeah. So, >> we we approve. >> Oh, we've approved it. Yeah. >> Register. Yeah. >> Right. Um, so um, town council has um found one um, typo that needs to be 27 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:29.280 corrected on the covenant. Um, and then there was a question about uh reporting on that typo is just one of the numbers on one of the references. >> So, 28 00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:46.480 let's have the covenant discussion. Um the concern of the town council and probably the planning board is that the covenant proposes first of 29 00:08:46.480 --> 00:09:06.080 all what is considered an excessive period of time to accomplish the project which is 10 years. Secondly and most importantly is is the um what happens if the project is 30 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:23.040 disposition this covenant talks about the sale of the underlying and the concern with um the concern is that while we have gone 31 00:09:23.040 --> 00:09:39.519 through a process with you and JP specifically, not some amorphous entity. uh we are hesitating to just let it all go to someone else without having you 32 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:56.000 know without having at least a review. I don't know what the um uh you know what the real estate law says but that is what we are concerned 33 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:11.519 about in this and our town council was concerned about. Do you have anything to tell me about this particular wording? >> Sure. Um, and I don't have it in front of me, apologies, but I I do recall that part of the covenant. I think we we were 34 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:27.680 trying to address on that. Um, Mr. chair was um we've been before this board prior when we were looking to transfer to a new entity and it's just a administratively uh somewhat of a uh I want to say burdensome but it's a 35 00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:42.959 process that we're trying to streamline a little bit better. I think on a fuller scale we might be open to a more um involved conversation, but we're trying to minimize uh just every time whether we're refinancing to a new entity or we have a partnership like the JLB partnership that not every time we're 36 00:10:42.959 --> 00:10:59.920 coming before the board um especially if we're still part of the the project um as we intend to be. So I think that was the intent of that element of the covenant to try and not uh try to not have so many steps unnecessarily especially if we were you know not transferring entirely out of it. Uh that 37 00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:14.640 that was the spirit of it anyway. So, um, can we have more precise language about I mean I I I agree it's not our business who finances you or you know where but 38 00:11:14.640 --> 00:11:32.399 if there's a sale of one of the properties um I think I think it's reasonable that we're concerned you know to who it goes to. I I I I'm not proposing necessarily that 39 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:50.160 we have veto power or anything like that, but understanding. >> Yeah, we be open to language if we can do that. Um I think we proposed something that we thought was speaking to that. So if if the board >> Well, it may speak to that in legal speak, but in common sense speak 40 00:11:50.160 --> 00:12:06.160 >> that was from our attorney as well. So um certainly open if there's if that's the way the way forward. So were there any other um we have the time period um and we have the convey 41 00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:33.760 convey itself the underlying property is there anything else that is of concern to anyone at the moment I have not read the changes not really. >> I mean, it does seem like what what 42 00:12:33.760 --> 00:12:52.720 Christopher called out um exposes us to to a big risk there. Um what it should take like >> Well, the ris, you know, the risk is that we um you know, that it's conveyed to a party 43 00:12:52.720 --> 00:13:09.680 that isn't necessarily um for us in that and once again I really don't know whether we can proclude that but you've asked us to weigh in on the covenant and I >> I think it's a longer conversation. I 44 00:13:09.680 --> 00:13:25.760 think you're absolutely right. We've had that conversation internally about what you're suggesting what's sort of allowed and not within within reason. Um, again, I in talking with our attorney on this specific covenant, we were trying to I think thread that needle and maybe have 45 00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:41.760 a conversation longer a longer conversation about more of the more broader approach. But again, I certainly understand the town's um wanting understanding of the full transfer. I think what we're focused on is, you know, being able to to introduce new entities that we're part of and we're affiliated with. I think the sort of 46 00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:57.839 similar conversation we'll have with the JB language at the end of the the night as well. It's it's really um not putting process in for the sake of process if if there's you know understanding that there's an affiliation and that there's still partnership and that the groups that you were familiar with are still involved very much so. 47 00:13:57.839 --> 00:14:13.279 >> All right. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't it always whether it was a subdivision or a special permit as long as there wasn't a change of ownership they they could change the entities. They could done it multiple times. It's 48 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:28.320 just if there's a change in ownership they have to come before us. >> I think that's what we would like to see. Um and you're referring to the point >> the point any subdivision the subdivision gets closed. So it's always 49 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:44.160 the case you know and when you talk about entities you're talking about origin you know like I noticed northern bank or you know mortgage maybe >> like before sorry to interrupt we we had 50 00:14:44.160 --> 00:15:01.720 a you know we refinanced a different bank and there was a new LLC had to be created for that because we couldn't use the old LLC same exact 100% ownership we had to come before the board there was a whole presentation I had to pay Chris more money which I don't like to do and so we're trying to sort of >> what about Chris 51 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:22.320 >> the way I the way we've always done it for the past something years now um was that as long as it wasn't a change of >> so I think the the distinction on this one here is is now that it's subdivided into six or seven multiple different 52 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:37.680 properties within the development and then I think once you start selling if ownership of the individual property changes it becomes ambiguous as who's responsible now for overall execution and other pieces and I think that's the language I would like to see to make 53 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:54.160 sure that we have clarified that you know that we're not now separately negotiating with JB uh for all of the responsibilities relative to the subdivision aspects that apply to them we still have a single entity right now it's all owned by a single 54 00:15:54.160 --> 00:16:08.800 >> all LLC's are owned by a single entity Correct. So it's we still have it's all a single focus. >> So let's go back to the point then because what happened at the point was there are six parcels out at the point and they're owned by different people now. Mark Basket owns their own parcel. 55 00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:26.959 They bought it from from Mr. Park. So the only thing they came before us for if I'm correct me if I'm wrong was the change of ownership. Now, as far as the interworkings of the the subdivision itself, that's between them. Who's paying for what? Who owns what we don't 56 00:16:26.959 --> 00:16:41.839 have any say. It's just a different owner for that particular block. It would be the same thing here. They block our block. >> Did market basket in any form come before the board? >> No, I think all they ever did was for they came before us for change of owner. 57 00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:58.639 That and the um the >> that's what change >> just a change of ownership. They came before us to inform us that Sam Park didn't own it anymore. Market desk and same thing with the um I think they own the hotel too. I mean the hotel is a separate metric and positive hotel is a 58 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:15.439 separate entity. So the only thing that would trigger it would be change change of ownership and then they come in before us and say this is what we're doing. It's not going to change the subdivision we have internally in place who's responsible for what that's really their their problem not our problem. 59 00:17:15.439 --> 00:17:31.840 It's change of ownership. That's all they come to for us for >> Do we maintain any kind of accountability then? >> As far as what if of course we do. If if somebody else buys it, they're paying the taxes on it. That all gets changed and that's how we find out about it. But 60 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:48.160 it hasn't been a problem. Change of ownership triggers. That's it. You know, they shouldn't have to keep coming in if they change if they're LLC's. They still in it. >> Well, well, the other Yeah. So I think I let me let me just 61 00:17:48.160 --> 00:18:04.400 >> go I think we might be talking a little past. So when I'm saying change of ownership is is yes they need to come before us so we we understand what's happening and we can make sure that all of the pieces are addressed there. Uh them bringing on additional partners and things like that 62 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:21.120 that's within their within the financing of the LLC and we don't have anything to do with that. >> Well we made them come in. >> That's right. That's the point is that right now we do have to and that's what the covenant was trying to solve is that to to sort of streamline to your other point which is really focused on that 63 00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:36.559 only the larger transfer is was the spirit of that. >> So I think maybe maybe we need to make sure that that language is a little bit more clear to us. >> It's in a sub site plan special permit. It's in the >> since I just saw this now I'm not >> Yeah, but this has nothing to do with 64 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:53.520 it. It it's superseded by our special permit. It's in our special permit that if they change of ownership, they have to come before us anyway. It's in our site plan. If if there's a change of ownership of a subdivision or a commercial endeavor, they have to come for the planning board and at least tell 65 00:18:53.520 --> 00:19:11.200 us whether we decide to do anything about it or not is is up to us, but it's it's already in there. This is, as far as I'm concerned, Knights have it in there, but it's redundancy. It's already in there. >> So, So, we have a meeting. Can we 66 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:29.120 continue this to that meeting? >> If the board's not prepared to unless there's a a proposed amendment there, but >> again, that's we our attorney that was the spirit of our language, but if if it needs to be reviewed, we can't force you guys. >> And and it and it it may be a small 67 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:46.559 point, it may be a big one. We can't really figure that out right now. Um the other the other issue I had was um this has happened every time the property for the rest of 68 00:19:46.559 --> 00:20:03.039 >> it never happened. The point is it only happened when there was a sale. No, no, no. I'm saying every sale in the future for the rest of time will they then have to come back and inform us that there's a no owner involved. Whether it's 69 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:19.919 subdivision of building housing, building commercial space, anytime there's a change, whoever signed a special permit or a site plan, if it changed substantially, meaning they were no longer involved in it, they came for us. It's been that way for 35 years. 70 00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:35.840 Well, no, that's I understand. >> But it's in our site plan and our special permit. It's in our rules and rags already. That's kind of my point. >> Okay. >> Anyway. >> Okay. >> So, maybe we have town council here the next time just just to sus it all out and look at our site plan and 71 00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:57.240 subdivisions and special. >> Yeah. I would recommend that by the time we get to the next meeting um we have an agreement. >> Yes. Yes. We'll make ourselves available to to the town council as we have. >> Okay. and then Chris >> and we'll have the myars. 72 00:20:57.520 --> 00:21:19.240 >> Okay. Uh it is now past 6:40. Item number three is the continued public hearing. Uh storm water enhancements or renovations. Um, we have to talk about 73 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:41.679 and I'm not sure if you guys want me to pull up a plan or not. I know we've discussed this a couple times, but I can I can pull up a Yeah. I >> If you can just do it anyway. >> How should we >> Oh, um, actually, yeah. 74 00:21:41.679 --> 00:22:32.720 >> Yeah. Just just move your time. Thank you. Just want to know who we're going to be talking. >> Yes. It's magic. What? Okay. All right. So, yeah, just a quick 75 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:47.120 overview. Um, I know we've discussed this one a couple times, but uh my name is Chris Raymond from TEC. Uh we're just uh here is a continued hearing for the building 200 improvements. Um you can see here on the uh on the graphic uh the 76 00:22:47.120 --> 00:23:04.799 area that we're talking about is um is the area around uh what we call building 200. Um it is directly adjacent to the residential phase one that was just uh previously approved as well as just north of the uh the retail village that was also just approved. Um, the intent 77 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:21.440 of of of this plan is to just um do some improvements around that existing building to help it um to help it uh marry into the surrounding developments that were just approved. Um, just a closer look at it. Um, we're talking about this area here. It 78 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:43.200 includes uh an additional access around building 200, which you can see at the rear of the site. Um, as well as some uh parking and pedestrian improvements around the building. Um, this site will um um include a uh 79 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:58.480 driveway access over to um what you guys have seen on the on the residential um phase of the development. Uh there'll be a driveway access into that uh previously proposed parking garage. Um, and this um just includes uh 80 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:15.440 improvements to allow circulation around 200. If you were to go out there today, there's really only a parking lot in the front of building 200. Um, and this will now allow circulation completely around the building uh to aid in uh vehicle circulation, pedestrian circulation, and 81 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:32.240 emergency vehicle circulation. Uh these improvements will include new uh utility connections um that are uh new utility mains were just run into the site as part of the uh uh infrastructure improvements projects that are ongoing. 82 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:49.919 Um and the intent is to tie the building into those new uh uh the new utility infrastructure as well as upgrade the storm water system uh which you can see highlighted here in green. Um, so we'll be installing a new state-of-the-art uh storm water system to treat and detain 83 00:24:49.919 --> 00:25:07.039 any of the storm water runoff um uh uh resulting from these improvements. So that's a quick quick overview. Um I know you guys have seen this and and uh we've gone through uh peer review through Green International received 84 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:23.279 their comments, addressed all their comments. We've also done coordination with um the Littleton Fire Department and gotten their their sign off. So um yeah, if there's anything else that you guys have uh >> Yeah. I wanted to ask if 122 parking 85 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:39.760 spaces is adequate for when that building is fully occupied. >> Um yes. Yeah. Well, so there there'll be the 122 service improvement uh service parking >> parking garage. >> Yeah. as well as uh the shared parking garage. Yes. 86 00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:55.440 >> So there I believe there's that allocates like 522 spaces maybe to this uh which we programmed to be sufficient for the building. Yeah. >> Can you tell us about spacing? 87 00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:11.440 >> Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Um so um currently just because this building is occupied um the intent is to construct these improvements in in two phases. Um we want to be able to main 88 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:28.559 maintain access to the building uh which is currently uh access from the front of the site. So what will most likely happen during construction is uh I'll call it the left side of the building and the rear of the uh rear of the building will be constructed first. um so we can get that um uh storm water 89 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:45.120 system in and and provide a new access around the rear of the building. Um that'll allow during that time the building is is fully accessible from the front of the building from the existing uh front door of that building uh and and parking area. Um once the 90 00:26:45.120 --> 00:27:00.880 improvements along the rear and the in the left side are are uh complete, there is building access on that side that'll be formalized. um will be ADA compliant and then we can uh we can then uh shift that to be kind of the the main interim 91 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:15.760 entrance while we can while we construct the the front portion of the site and those improvements. >> What's the sequence? So that parking you're just talking about and the parking garage and the residential 92 00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:32.320 >> um yeah um currently um projecting to try to get these um improvements done first uh at least the first phase of these done first um which should coincide pretty nicely with as we complete that um the residential phase 93 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:51.679 is starting. >> Anything else? I'm happy that the traffic is directed to the right side. >> Yeah, >> I think that's >> Yeah, we kind of switched the access there. >> So, in in our decision that we will be 94 00:27:51.679 --> 00:28:09.520 voting on tonight, the two issues that came up previous were the parking spaces which deal in a question about uh the dark sky compliant 95 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:27.520 Um the modification to that is so long as such compliance meets reasonable parking lot lighting safety standards. Um any comments? 96 00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:43.279 >> I have one question on the EV spaces. I know we talked last time about Littleton being a stretch code community uh 20% EV ready spaces. Um I think that's more on like the residential side, but then there was also the discussion of would 97 00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:58.880 they be level two or level three? Where did that net out? >> Um I So I think 20% are going to be EV ready. Um >> 10%. >> So this says 10% EV ready. 98 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:14.480 >> Yeah. Yeah. 10. >> Yeah, the antenna was a standard charger and we were to do 10 install in addition or rather including as that 10%. >> Okay. >> And and I and I think as we said last meeting too, I mean if and or when our tenants 99 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:32.480 express demand for more, but we we will do everything we can to meet that and then because of the the 10% we'll be ready to infrastructure already be in. >> Yeah. Well, one thing that I, you know, I realize what our what the code says and and the other piece there, uh, and I 100 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:48.480 just maybe put it out for consideration by both the board and the developers is whether it would make more sense to put in a cluster of level three chargers, uh, that would support high-speed charging instead of residents coming out in the middle of the night to unplug so that they don't acrewue charges 101 00:29:48.480 --> 00:30:03.919 overnight and things like that. the high-speed chargers versus the the ones that will take most of the day for for people to charge and whether that's really what you need at the commercial place there or do you need some place to just top off, >> right? >> Uh >> I mean that right to your point, 102 00:30:03.919 --> 00:30:18.960 >> you know, personally and I propose it to the board is whether we'd be willing to make trade-offs of rather than putting in so much infrastructure for EV chargers that might not be built whether it make more sense to put in the put in the high-speed chargers which would be more, you know, more long-term 103 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:34.240 efficient. uh for it uh on it. And then, you know, you might realize something by not putting in so much EV ready infrastructure and dedicated to, you know, the the ones that are more likely to fit the need of a quick hit versus 104 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:50.880 the, you know, the ones that um take several hours to >> I guess what I would say is I I would love if the board would let us consider that for a more accessible location just because this is sort of snake. >> Oh, that's what I mean. is >> and I also want to get more smarter on the power needs for that because it's it's you know we've had other projects 105 00:30:50.880 --> 00:31:05.679 in the past where you put all these in here and then you you call the utility and they say you have five years we'll get you that power and so I I don't want to commit >> I I I'm just putting it out there because I know what our what our regulations say and I can't just >> wave you know there and it takes work on 106 00:31:05.679 --> 00:31:21.360 both sides uh but I pose it to the board is is that something that we might want to consider in the future is it rather than requiring so much EV ready traded off for high, you know, level three spaces later, particularly for a development of this size. 107 00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:37.679 >> My experience, and I've been in the apartment business for 30 years, is apartments are way different than retail. Retail wants to get in, get a two-hour charge can help. Residential, they plug in most of nine times out of 10, they never they never leave. They 108 00:31:37.679 --> 00:31:53.919 stay at that space all night long. And if this is an if this is an office complex, they're going to stay there all day long. So they don't need high speed the ones any >> but it ties it up to the other residents. >> Nobody else is going to be in those spaces. This is not residential. This is really 109 00:31:53.919 --> 00:32:09.679 there's residential in in parking garage but they don't leave when you the apartment complexes I work at. People plug in and then they don't they don't move the car. They leave it there all day long. So it doesn't matter how many things to charge. They never charge. Not like but somebody that's driven into a 110 00:32:09.679 --> 00:32:25.440 residential area looking for charge. They shouldn't be in there. >> They if you're >> if I'm visiting, I I can I'm entitled to spaces there. But if you're >> not if the residents are just parked there, >> if you're in the parking garage and you live there, you're going to find you're going to find a charge and you're going 111 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:41.120 to It's just like if you go into Boston, if you go into the parking garage of Boston, you plug in, you never leave that parking space. You're there for eight hours. You pay for the space, you stay. This is residential. You pull into your space, you charge your car. Nine times out of 10, unless there's a real 112 00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:58.240 demand for EV charges, which nine times out of 10 there is not, you stay at the space. You never move your car. If if you're looking at re retail like Whole Foods and things like that, they want the fast charges because they want you to go in, shop, and get the heck out. 113 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:13.760 But this is long-term. This >> purely all day long. >> Yeah, >> correct me if I'm wrong, but that's everything. I've seen I'm in I've been in 20 30 apartment conferences working at them. People don't move their cars. They put them they leave them. >> The third party providers are typically 114 00:33:13.760 --> 00:33:31.360 now charging. If you stay plugged in and you're not charging, >> it shuts off when you're done. >> But they bill you for idle time now. So >> I don't know about that but >> yeah I I would suggest that um 115 00:33:31.360 --> 00:33:47.519 you have complex requirements for this electrical charging because you have different uses and you don't necessarily know what the uptake on electric vehicles is and it's pretty strong around here but you know whatever and I 116 00:33:47.519 --> 00:34:04.799 don't know if we can like finetune it. I mean, I would imagine that you will be interested in fine-tuning. You may end up with, you know, a Tesla charging station as a tenant. I don't know. >> Are Tesla high? Are they the high speed? Because what do we have at the point? 117 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:21.200 >> I think they do both, but they definitely do high speed for sure. >> We only have 10 of them in the whole project at the point. So, what's >> what those ones were vandalized, too? >> Yeah, they were. >> That's all we have. I I just wanted to mention it because putting in 20% EV 118 00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:38.000 ready is is a substantial infrastructure investment also uh there that um may not be the most optimal use of that investment. I propose it to the board for consideration and I propose it to the developer for consideration. That's all. >> Can I ask obviously it's in your best 119 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:56.159 interest to have this filled. Um it's in our best interest too. So, how does this compare as far as percentage of EV chargers? How do the the numbers compare to other um other business parks that are being built now or even just other business parks like in a 10 mile radius 120 00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:12.320 that attract this kind of the tenants that you're looking for? >> What I would say is the research is limited and I also think it depends on the tenants you have. um we're attracting a wide range of both office and R&D and sort of I don't want to say industrial but that kind of tenency and 121 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:28.000 that and that doesn't necessarily mean that there's going to be a high use of of EV charge needs. So a lot of times it's working with tenants as we talk to them and trying to get them into the building to say is this something that's important to you? Is this something that a lot of your um employees would utilize? And and oftentimes they're very 122 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:43.760 upfront saying this is a big this is important to our business. This is important to or a lot of times that's not important at all. So I I I I hate to say the answer is it depends but it really does depend on a building by building. There's never like we talk about parking ratios for multif family and it's it's usually you know one and a 123 00:35:43.760 --> 00:36:00.000 half or you know one one and a quarter per that's something that's a lot more uh defined when it comes to charging stations though and you only have to really look at we don't have to go down this path but the sale of EVs has just kind of done this a bunch I mean it went up for a while and now we'll see if it goes back up and with with the gas 124 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:16.480 prices but the last two years I mean you just look at you know Ford lost a billion dollars last year because they bet wrong on it and so it's it's something that's a moving target which why what we're trying to do is be responsive here, but then allow for flexibility. And like you said, I mean, we're incentivized that if our tenants need it, we're going to we're going to 125 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:32.560 ramp it up. But the worst thing to do is just have them there sit empty. I mean, we've all been to some parking lots where they just there's nobody park there. >> Yeah. >> So, and then so that that's that's the that's the way we're approaching it. >> I guess I just think like if we look and I understand that like the research is limited. That said, if we just collect 126 00:36:32.560 --> 00:36:48.960 data from like the what is the Westford Technology Park, is that what they call it? like just down like five minutes down the road where you've got um Juniper and Nvidia and you know half a dozen other of like the kind of companies that you've talked about for here like you drive around some of those 127 00:36:48.960 --> 00:37:06.640 parking lots and it'll be like a quarter Teslas and Volts and you know everything in between and I guess I wonder if that's our competition if that's your competition too what are it would be good to have that as kind of a a 128 00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:23.040 benchmark And I think you know what I would just say is that that that sort of makes the point though which is those tenants are really driving that demand and with the EV readiness we're able to meet that demand very quickly um and and install that if those tenants didn't come in. Um and and when we're I mean it takes so 129 00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:39.520 long to do these these these deals with these tenants that that's something that we're not worried about in terms of it it doesn't make a difference if they're there to attract them because we we can say we can put those in for you. So like if you rent it to IBM, let's just say IBM because they used to be in there. You rent it to IBM. IBM would be able to 130 00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:56.240 tell you, you know, we have probably the need for 300. We want to make sure we have >> before you even sign the lease. So you have you'll have all the conduit and all the >> underground infrastructure in place. All you have to do is fish the wires and put the EV stations. So it's pretty much 131 00:37:56.240 --> 00:38:12.400 >> you can design it to whatever the capacity is. Although some and some of those companies, again, we keep going down this rabbit hole, but it's like you do a Google and have people ride a bike to to work. You know, they're not even driving cars. >> Plus, we're going to be trying to support the train station, >> right? All that's all that as well. So, 132 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:28.079 for for sure. So, >> but the other is point I make is you go up to the point, the only place they have EV, if I'm not mistaken, is the 12 Tesla ever put up there, and that's it for the whole point. So, if they if there was a demand for it, there'd be 133 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:44.240 more people screen or nothing. >> Yeah, >> it'll probably change if there was Whole Food there. I think that's probably a big driver, but it goes Whole Foods. >> Get it for free or what? Whatever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm not that great. 134 00:38:44.240 --> 00:38:59.839 >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other comments? Uh, may I have a motion to approve well to close the hearing? A motion to close the hearing. Close the We have to specify which hearing we're 135 00:38:59.839 --> 00:39:15.839 closing or just under the >> site improvements. Storm water. >> Yeah. >> Uh can I have a second? >> Second. >> Uh all in favor? >> I 136 00:39:15.839 --> 00:39:33.839 >> uh may I have a motion to approve the uh it's not a decision but >> So it is a decision. I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion to approve the building 200 site improvement site plan review decision and special and storm 137 00:39:33.839 --> 00:39:51.040 water permit. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I decision. Okay. The next uh agenda item 138 00:39:51.040 --> 00:40:33.920 is um public hearing to open a public hearing for King Street Common 550 King Street Stormwater View in Site Plant for the Town Creek. Uh, Mr. Chair, members of the board, U 139 00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:48.800 Pearson again, uh, with the holding companies, the proponents. Um, looking forward to showing you what we have for the town green this evening. Um, but before we jump into that presentation, I guess I wanted to offer U Sali who's joined us tonight to um to speak to the 140 00:40:48.800 --> 00:41:05.440 board. Um, and then we'll jump into First of all, thank you for letting me be here today. It's been a little while since I've been in front of this board. If you notice, the real boss is not here. Mary is uh unable to be here 141 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:22.720 tonight. So Tom Brady has put Steve Grogan in the game and I'm Steve Grogan and Mary's Tom Brady. So but having said that, I just want to thank you guys for the work that you've done. This is five years we've been working with each other and some of the board 142 00:41:22.720 --> 00:41:38.960 members are new and I haven't had an opportunity to say thank you very much for working on this project, but I wanted to come here tonight uh to personally thank you on behalf of the project, behalf of the family. It's been a lot of hard work and this is still really in just the beginning. The 143 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:54.319 success of this project depends on all of us and I uh I know how hard you've been working and I appreciate it. The family appreciates the organization appreciates it. So I'm here to answer any questions, tell you thank you very much. I'm excited about the future. 144 00:41:54.319 --> 00:42:11.440 You know, the the winds change a great deal, not only in this country, but in the state of Massachusetts. And things happen at the speed of light. And who would have thought that interest rates would go up because there was going to be a war. 6 months ago, we would have 145 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:28.480 kind of shrugged our shoulders. That'll never happen in America, you know, and all of a sudden there's a war and interest rates have skyrocketed. Who would have thought um there would ever be an issue with uh housing in one of the most starved states in the entire 146 00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:43.920 country? But yet there's a there's a word called rent control now that's scaring a bunch of people. Certainly a bunch of uh investors. So all I can ask you is, you know, speed is important. I appreciate how hard you're working. On behalf of the family, thank you very 147 00:42:43.920 --> 00:43:00.880 much. Thank you for working with Morgan and TEC. I'm here to answer any questions, but we've been we've been here all along. This is a familyrun business. We've never wavered. We're going up on I think probably close to six years now working on this project together. And so if 148 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:16.560 there's anything we can do, I'm always accessible. I'm always here to answer any questions. Things haven't changed within the people except for Mary. She's she's now in front of you guys except for me. But uh that's it. I just wanted to thank you. there's if there's 149 00:43:16.560 --> 00:43:32.880 anything I can do. We've as a family, as an organization, have directed based on some of your comments in the past all the way back from, you know, 5 years ago to if we can do it, let's do it for the best as opposed to, you know, just what 150 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:48.960 does the regulation say? That's where we want to follow. We've always listened to you and I hope you see that, you know, through some of the challenges that we've all had as it pertains to other aspects of this project. We've always try to do what's best for the community, whether it's a 151 00:43:48.960 --> 00:44:05.920 look, feel, or design. I think you're going to be super proud of what we're going to show you. These these ladies and gentlemen took a great deal of effort in producing something. We call it the town green. I really believe that this is going to be a showplace 152 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:21.440 um for the entire project, but you're also going to be proud of it for the entire town of Littleton. I think this is going to be a incredible draw. I think people will come to this area just to enjoy restaurants and the atmosphere. I think 153 00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:37.680 people will walk around and enjoy this. and and early on when I first came in front of you, I remember that was super important to this board, super important to the town. I think you're going to see how we listen to that. So, I want to give credit to the entire team that's beside me. They do all of the heavy 154 00:44:37.680 --> 00:44:55.040 lifting and uh unfortunately because of the longevity of this project, you know, you've seen the Lei family kind of come in with you, start with me, but really that torch is being carried by Mary and I appreciate the way you've been treating my daughter. it's important. You know, she's new to this. She's 155 00:44:55.040 --> 00:45:11.760 learning and some of the people that are on this board have really been very kind to her. So, thank you very much. And I want to thank the town of Littleton because you represent the town. They've been incredible. Also, as we continue to talk to them, whether I see them in restaurants or I talk to the selectman 156 00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:27.599 or other other board members, you've been aces. So, thank you very much on behalf of the organization. That's it. >> Um I like speak for the board and the town that we want this project to be 157 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:44.319 successful. >> That's all. >> You know, >> that's what we're all working for. >> You know, Jeff, you're 100% right. And the way I say it, and I I describe it to people all the time, this project can be nowhere without 158 00:45:44.319 --> 00:46:00.960 without the town support. Um, and this project, if we don't work together, we both are in a little bit of a pickle, right? The town won't be happy. We won't be happy. So, how do we continue to work together? Because we 159 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:18.560 need each other, for both of us, the town and this project, to be successful. This is a fantastic project. It's going to be the poster child for other communities like Littleton, of how to do things in a thoughtful way. But without each other working hard for each other, 160 00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:34.400 we can't be successful either side. We just we won't be. And so that's why you've seen and what you're about to see, you're going to say respectfully, humbly. Uh this is an organization that listens and this is an organization that 161 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:51.920 you you'll be able to say they're the example. If that organization, that familyrun business can do that. And I think that's that's really important. you're you're talking to the person that's personally signing for every one of these right now and it's a it's 162 00:46:51.920 --> 00:47:07.760 it's really kind of a little bit of anxiety going on in there but I have the complete faith in the board in this town. I have been for the na past six years or I wouldn't be here but Jeff to your point we need each other. I I need this project to be successful. The town 163 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:22.720 of Littleton needs this and so therefore we need each other. Um so thank you for recognizing that. Thank you, Jeff. >> So, since you um are here um not agended, uh but since you are 164 00:47:22.720 --> 00:47:39.200 here, I'd like um any other board members to um speak to any of their concerns. >> Uh just one question. I mean, you mentioned the you know, events of the last six months have created some 165 00:47:39.200 --> 00:47:55.280 economic headwinds. uh there. Um has that placed any of what's already been permitted here up to some nice stuff here at risk? >> No, I think what's what's going on right now, Darl, is there's a lot of turmoil out there, right? And we all know that 166 00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:12.800 the longer time goes on in any kind of investment or or um business venture, time kills deals. That's that that saying really means something. And so we have a great desire to continue to push this forward because things are changing 167 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:27.760 every day, right? Oil isund it's going to be $120 a barrel. I mean, it's just it's crazy of what's happening. You know, interest rates have gone up, you know, 200 basis points in in 60 days almost. And so it's just there's a lot 168 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:43.760 of stuff going on. And that's why I would hope that we as a team can look at certain things and say, "Listen, let's potentially, and I don't I won't never put words in your mouth, Darl, but I've been here for six years now, so I think 169 00:48:43.760 --> 00:49:01.359 we've kind of created a relationship where we can speak freely, but how do we do things?" And if it's something that we can address in uh in a different application, for example, let's approve it with this condition or how do we work together? Because the faster we go, as 170 00:49:01.359 --> 00:49:18.160 long as it's done in a thoughtful way, the better we all are because like I said, you you just never known. If anyone was to ever say to you in 2020 that there would be a world crisis that 171 00:49:18.160 --> 00:49:35.839 every single financial, you know, uh, system in the world would would be bended on bended knee. Every business would be on bended knee. You'd say it can never happen. Maybe maybe in certain parts of the world, but yet it happened. It was called CO. And so we just don't 172 00:49:35.839 --> 00:49:51.599 know. and the fact that we're coming up on six years. We've done a thoughtful project, but things are funny now. So, if we can do anything, it would be wonderful. But how do we do it in a thoughtful way, the right way by listening? But maybe there's instances 173 00:49:51.599 --> 00:50:07.760 where you'll be able to say that's not something that, you know, we should make Mary or Morgan come back in two weeks or a month or whatever it is. Maybe we can expedite certain things. If it is, that's wonderful. It helps the project. 174 00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:24.720 It helps both of us. But if not, Darl, I I I totally get it. And we will continue to be the example that you set for everybody else. Does that make sense? >> Thank you, Darl. >> I try to, like I said, you know, I have my opinions as I've expressed during 175 00:50:24.720 --> 00:50:40.000 many of the meetings here, and I always try to make sure I give you what I see as a path forward on that. I hope that's helpful for you. >> I've always found that. And when people ask me and I have the pleasure of speaking of of representing the member 176 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:57.359 of Mac Valley when the governor lieutenant governor want to understand the economic climate we we as a family work extremely hard and still a familyrun business. This is there's no partners in my business. You're you're talking to Mary and S and Mary's husband that own the business today. 177 00:50:57.359 --> 00:51:13.119 And so when she asks me or they ask me what the economic climate is of the Marramac Valley, we have the luxury of answering that. And when they ask about certain cities and towns, we are very truthful. And when they ask about Littleton, we say, you know what, 178 00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:28.480 they've been very cooperative. They get it. And I think that's why you see support from even that highest level when they talk about how do we get relief for the uh the commuter rail act 179 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:45.599 and how do we utilize some of uh a large investment at King Street to support that even though it's outside the the area that everybody else in the state had to follow. It's because people hear and they know how hard you are working and this board is working. This town is 180 00:51:45.599 --> 00:52:00.720 working. You know, um I'm grateful to the selectman that started this. I'm grateful to the planning board, zoning, town meeting. We're going to do some great things and you're going to be so proud of what we're going to present in 181 00:52:00.720 --> 00:52:17.680 the future. Uh and you're going to continue to use us as an example. But all I ask if the opportunity exists, you just you just never know what's going to happen uh with the economic climate that is outside of all of our 182 00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:33.440 control. And you see it today. You see it in the cost of goods and cost of gas and you know interest rates. It's just it's bizarre. But I'm here to uh tell you what you're about to see. I think you're 183 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:49.599 going to say, "Wow." At least I hope you but we have big shoulders and we're willing to listen if you see something maybe that you don't like. We'd love to hear it but maybe it's something we can make an adjustment but move on with a with an opportunity to speed things up 184 00:52:49.599 --> 00:53:06.079 on our part. Anything else? Bartlet. Um, I have some comments on the on the green that I I would like to bring up when we're talking, but I recognize that you have listened to us in the past and you've 185 00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:21.520 made changes that work for the town and and I appreciate that and I thank you for it, >> Margot. And I know we are new. >> Yeah, nice to meet you. >> It's a pleasure. >> Um, I'm looking forward to working with you on this. I think um as you said, as 186 00:53:21.520 --> 00:53:38.000 Jeff said, we want this to be successful because I think for this to be successful in a way that that meets like our economic needs, your economic needs and residents um retail and cultural and 187 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:53.359 residential needs. It's a difficult needle to thread. Um, and I think personally as kind of the newest voice on the planning board, I would love to take a more active role in enabling that 188 00:53:53.359 --> 00:54:09.440 success, especially with ensuring that it meets residents needs because I think anecdotally, um, which has been largely like the kind of input that we were able to collect, um, there's been 189 00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:24.559 I've heard a lot of people dismayed with how links have preceded. Um I think some people I've heard a lot of people voice that um when we first heard about the project um and I was pulling up my notes here. Sorry if I was shuffling pages but 190 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:42.960 back in the August 2021 meeting um you had said we want to integrate with the commons. You created that master plan with for small shops and small entrepreneurs that we want to have here. And then um you had gone on to say we want to focus on small business and helping it grow. And I think for many 191 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:59.920 people to run with that idea um it sounds great and then when they've heard like wait the the buildings are a lot larger than we had anticipated and the kinds of retailers you're bringing in are also a lot larger than we had anticipated. They're saying like where 192 00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:15.200 are the the small shops and small entrepreneurs? I've had the discussions that maybe that is not the most economically I don't know it's sustainable but economically immediately viable path. So I think figuring out how we create 193 00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:29.839 something that meets both of those needs that has the larger anchors that provide economic stability so that you can have the I'll say riskier places that give rise to small business and more cafes 194 00:55:29.839 --> 00:55:44.960 and more um maybe co-working spaces and that kind of thing. I think that will that will show more towns people that like look we need to be economically pragmatic and smart and meet that need 195 00:55:44.960 --> 00:56:02.319 now while also meeting more of like the cultural needs that people have spoken to. Um, and I also think to that end, one of like the well, I guess two things I've been hearing a lot on on Facebook and in one-on-one discussions and and 196 00:56:02.319 --> 00:56:18.240 whatnot with people both when are they going to ask residents more of what we want whether that is paying lip service or engaging directly with people I think giving people more of a way to say yeah you're coming into 197 00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:35.760 our town our town that already has a town commontown green how are you going to augment it how are you going to add to it how are you going to make sure that our needs are reflected there too I think that as the the group that can be kind of the 198 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:52.240 conduit between you and the 10,000 plus residents of Littleton. Um, use us in that regard. Let's partner in that regard to make sure that those lines of communication, whether it's through focus groups or more surveys or whatever 199 00:56:52.240 --> 00:57:09.680 it takes, that people are able to say like, you know, this is more of what we'd like to see. I think that that can be engagement that only helps everybody. Um because like as I said, the the other big thing that I've been hearing people 200 00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:26.480 saying like, "Oh, with all that's going in there, what we'd really love to see is a gym, some sort of community physical space." Like, >> you're going to be so proud. >> I I've seen the slides already for the green. I So, yeah, run with that. I'm going to I'm just Margot, you're going 201 00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:43.839 to be excited because let me just answer a couple of the points you made. So as it pertains to small entrepreneurs, we as a family, we as an organization have made a decision and a project of this 202 00:57:43.839 --> 00:57:58.799 presence off the highway sometimes commands or creates the opportunity for some of the biggest names you can imagine, right? Capitol Grill, Smith and Molinski, 203 00:57:58.799 --> 00:58:14.640 Ruth Chris, the restaurants that have already approached us. One is from Littleton, Massachusetts. Name will be remains to be, you know, not not spoken about right now. The other three are from the 204 00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:31.200 surrounding communities that we we touch. So these are small restaurants. Some of them only have one restaurant. This is their second restaurant. So to answer to your point, Marggo, I believe in that. You know why? I started with one store. I started with 700 square 205 00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:48.079 feet and my family took a third mortgage on the house to invest in me. I know what it's like to be a small entrepreneur. And so where we had the opportunity already to go with some names that they're national brands, we have already chosen smaller 206 00:58:48.079 --> 00:59:03.520 entrepreneurs, smaller restaurants. You're going to see as we continue to work together an assortment of restaurants that you're going to be like, "Wow, some of them you're not even going to believe how local they are." And so, to your point, absolutely. to 207 00:59:03.520 --> 00:59:20.319 the point about the buildings. Although the buildings they look this building's 12,000 square feet or this particular building's 15,000 square feet that are on King Street, Margot, I can assure you that those buildings will have cut up. In some instances, there'll 208 00:59:20.319 --> 00:59:35.520 be entrepreneurs in there in 17 or 1800 square feet. You see, today that entrepreneur can't afford to be in a big space. They need much smaller space. And so every one of those buildings, Margot, you're going to see half a dozen tenants 209 00:59:35.520 --> 00:59:52.480 in those buildings. So although the exterior looks large, Margot, you'll see the interior will be comprised of much smaller tenants. Great. >> You said something that was super interesting and I'm lucky enough to be joined by my vice president of construction today, Gary Armstrong. 210 00:59:52.480 --> 01:00:07.440 Today we were talking about how do we create open space that is not just for the for the uh development. How do we incorporate other parts of it so the community can do it? We talked about playgrounds today. 211 01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:24.880 Granted, we're still in we're still working through it. I think this green is the beginning of that first step. We agree with you Margot and we have every step of the way the tenants inside the buildings. Let's just go to the existing tenants. 212 01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:40.559 Some people in other communities with a building of this magnitude, the former IBM buildings, one building is 290,000, the other building, I don't know, 270,000. There's 500 plus thousand square feet. There are brokers that have advised me 213 01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:56.160 specifically to go after larger tenants. There are people on this board that I invited to Riverwalk before I bought the building to show them what a 4 million square foot project looks like comprised of over 200 tenants. I have tenants at 214 01:00:56.160 --> 01:01:12.480 Riverwalk that are 500 square f feet. And the reason I say that is because one of the reason you chose me and believed in this family is because I showed you a project that was comprised of small entrepreneurs. But yet, if you go in the IBM building today or you go in one of the other 215 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:29.119 buildings down the street and other towns that are competitors, you will see large scale tenants. Do you know the second tenant we brought into the building, a local tenant started at 15,000 square feet. Their organization is already looking to 216 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:46.079 expand another 15,000 square feet. They hire locally. Their people live locally. They're the next town over. they move from the next town into your town. And so I think that's part of our secret sauce. So your point, we are the poster 217 01:01:46.079 --> 01:02:01.680 child for that. We invite any one of the board members or anybody in this town to come down and meet some of the local entrepreneurs that are in that building that we're helping foster and grow their business. You know why, Margot? Because it would be easy to give it to a broker 218 01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:16.799 and say, "Take a little less, put a big company in there." Marggo, I'd be remissed if a big company as a result of what we're building doesn't want to come there. That that would be a good thing for all of us and we're not going to say no to that. But if you look right now, 219 01:02:16.799 --> 01:02:31.920 our second tenant in the building, Precision, they're a small tenant, your next town over, they are so thrilled with being in your community, being in that building, being a part of something special, this development. You know what they said to 220 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:47.920 us? We're closing our other shop and we're moving to Littleton, Massachusetts. That's what you want. That's and that's what we believe in, Margot. And that's our track record. So, everything you just said, you're going to be super proud. 221 01:02:47.920 --> 01:03:03.440 We're we're speaking to a a fitness center right now. just a local small fitness center in a small space, you know, that we're working with right now that wants to they're they're not these 200,000 square foot gyms or 100,000. 222 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:19.520 They're just a small fitness center, you know. I'm I'm I'm hoping I can get them to 20 or 30,000 square ft, maybe a little bit more. Get a little bigger so the town can enjoy this, too. It's not just for the complex. You're going to see that, Margot. You're going to see 223 01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:36.000 these uh businesses go in there and and this board. It's this board. Jeff, I I I think you were part of that. Darl, I think you came to Riverwalk with me. >> I didn't see Riverwalk, >> but I'm well. >> Yeah, Mark. Mark came to Riverwalk. The 224 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:52.720 selectman came, zoning board came, members came. Were you on the board at that time, Jeeoff? Maybe you weren't. >> I don't think so. >> No, at at the very beginning. This is before we even bought uh Littleton. We we sat down and said, "Hey, I have a good idea. What do you guys think about it?" >> Mark is the OG. >> Yeah. 225 01:03:52.720 --> 01:04:08.480 >> Literally. >> And I was amazed at Riverblock. I have to be honest. I remember it as an old falling down mill. Lawrence who goes to Lawrence. It's taken you what 20 years? 23 years that it was. And it's amazing what's over there. It's absolutely. And 226 01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:26.640 you talk about smalls incubator space, retail, residential, all living together. You did a great job. I have, you know, all of us from there. I was there also when you dedicated the soccer field up on top of the roof. I'm not saying we need a soccer field. Great. But um it was amazing to see everybody 227 01:04:26.640 --> 01:04:42.559 that came the governor was there and it was I I drove George Sanders who's not here tonight. I can't believe that George and I rode together to go see that was pretty amazing. The governor was so when we first came into your beautiful town, the governor 228 01:04:42.559 --> 01:05:00.079 allocated $10 million to 550 King Street. $10 million for that project. The town came to me, the selectman came to me, the the the the fathers and the mothers came to me and they said, "Can we use that $10 million 229 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:15.440 to our sewer to our sewer system? We can't bridge that." our organization gave up that $10 million for the town of Littleton. I mean, that's a that's a fact. That that's that was done in front 230 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:31.839 of this selectman. And you know why? Because we're in this together. So that 10 million instead of it coming into 550 King Street, it went right to the town of Littleton and went to the taxpayers and they didn't have to come up with an extra $10 million. 231 01:05:31.839 --> 01:05:48.799 That's what partners do. When the town of Littleton came to me and they said, "S, we have the largest collection of gun dealers in all of America at 410 being 410 Great Road. C can you buy it, S? I I don't want it. 232 01:05:48.799 --> 01:06:04.400 I just bought 50 acres of CR." S, can you buy it? We're in this together. I went and bought a building that is has lost money since we opened it. You know why? Because if we're going to build this great environment, do we really 233 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:21.520 want that kind of a program across the street from families? I'm I'm not sure. And so that's just another indication of how this works together. I would be lost without this town. And and hopefully the town feels that they have the right 234 01:06:21.520 --> 01:06:37.760 developer, a thoughtful family that moves ahead with progressive ideas and ideas that think collectively. You talk about Riverwalk. Let's just talk about that for 10 seconds and I won't and and I apologize. This this thank you turned into a much 235 01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:55.280 longer conversation, >> but I'm just so proud of it. Let me let me tell you about Riverwalk for some of the people that haven't been there. This one this was an abandoned complex in the poorest city in the state over 4 million square feet. Homeless people were living in the building. 23 years later, a 236 01:06:55.280 --> 01:07:11.599 family, a organization, many of the people in this room supported. There are now 5,000 people that work there. 15% of the people that work there live in Lawrence, Massachusetts. 2,000 people live at the complex because first we created the job and then we created the 237 01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:28.720 housing. It's one of the most successful projects in the entire state. It's the poster child for the entire country of how you can go into an inner city, people that actually care about economic development for the poor and the and the people that need it. Imagine you went 238 01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:45.200 into a community that was the poorest city in the state. And I and I personally signed over a mortgage where my children sleep in order to buy the building. And so all we're looking to do here with a proven track record of that is to come to your community and say, 239 01:07:45.200 --> 01:08:02.400 "How do we work together?" Because we're not going anywhere. We're thrilled about working with you. We want to we want to grow old with you. I've been living in Chumsford for 35 years. And so this is the next progressive step to work together. And so whether it's Riverwalk 240 01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:18.080 or whether that's going to be the Commons, we took you to the se the second poorest city north of Boston. There's three of them, Lower, Lawrence, and Ho. We as a family have the three biggest projects in the three poorest cities north of Boston. We we we our 241 01:08:18.080 --> 01:08:35.120 money is just as green as the people in Nic or Newton or Welssley. Why did we go to those gateway cities? Because this family, this organization has a mission. And the proof is just look us up. We that's our track record. That's what we do really well. So time is of the 242 01:08:35.120 --> 01:08:52.799 essence. I can't thank you enough. If there's anything you ever need, I thought it was important to come in front of this board. I haven't been here in a little while. You know, my Mary and my Sally and my son-in-law Michael. Um they're itching to to get 243 01:08:52.799 --> 01:09:08.799 out there in front and this board has shown them a lot of patience and respect. And so I told Morgan, I'm coming here tonight. There were people that work in the town of Littleton that called me today and said, why are you coming? I'm I'm first of all, I'm about 244 01:09:08.799 --> 01:09:25.679 to spend a half a billion dollars in your town. But second of all, it's my it's time for me to thank you guys and you ladies for all your hard work. I mean, Martin, from the very beginning, you've been an advocate. You've always answered our phone calls. That doesn't 245 01:09:25.679 --> 01:09:40.640 happen in a lot of communities no matter what anybody says. And I'm in I'm in onethird of the state of Massachusetts with a sales pizza or some kind of a business. And so I can speak directly about that. And so I appreciate it. 246 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:56.960 Again, I'm humbled and I want to work hard for you guys. But in case anybody's thinking, ah, I've heard this before. Please look into my background and show me the people that put their homes up to buy the into the poorest cities in at 247 01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:14.000 one time in America. Lawrence was the 40 poorest city in America, you know, and look what we've done. And so I'd like to come here now and create a bunch of jobs, help a bunch of entrepreneurs, and when people say why, it's what we do. 248 01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:30.480 It's what we do. So, thank you very much. Thank you, S. >> I just had one more question. >> So, it's actually Can you tell him it's not my fault I'm standing up? >> No, my question is, is there going to be a S pizza? 249 01:10:30.480 --> 01:10:47.520 >> Well, it's interesting you say that. And so, of course, there's going to be a Sal pizza there. Um, you know, it's funny you say that, Jeff. Jeff, and I say it this way. Wherever we go and create a development, I firmly believe it's the 250 01:10:47.520 --> 01:11:03.679 food that brings the jobs, right? Like if you have a great food vibe and that company's moving in, they're like, "Oh my god, look at what my employees are going to get." And so we always seem to put wherever we go a pizza or a beautiful restaurant. We have lovely restaurants, Salvat 34 Park and Bozer, 251 01:11:03.679 --> 01:11:20.520 etc., etc. But we're excited, Jeeoff, and thank you for asking that. So the answer is yes. >> Thank you for uh coming before us. And since uh this wasn't on the agenda and we do want to see the town green, >> can I ask one question? 252 01:11:23.360 --> 01:11:39.840 >> Okay, >> that's when we put you down there. >> I know. Can I one question? Since you I may get yelled at about this, but since you brought up 410 and there's been a lot of talk about senior housing, affordable housing, can you shed any light on what you plan on 253 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:57.360 doing over there? cuz I've been on this board for 35 34 years. 25 years ago, the seniors all came before us. They all sat in the front row and we tried and tried and tried to do something for affordable senior housing, stay in Littleton, who 254 01:11:57.360 --> 01:12:14.719 don't who don't have to move, can sell their house, live somewhere, stay with all their friends, and we have not been able to do. We have one here and there, two here and there, a couple here, but nothing. You've been talking about doing something for senior cell housing. Can you tell us what your 255 01:12:14.719 --> 01:12:31.199 thoughts are? Give us a rough idea. If it's too much, I get it. But I'd love to know what your Mark, this is, first of all, thank you for that question, Mark. This is what I can say. I would love in the next 60 days, maybe 256 01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:48.800 less, as I said to you through my associates and my daughter, that after you approved the 318, I think we call it building three or 400 today, but the residential phase, that the next thing we're going to be doing is coming in to 257 01:12:48.800 --> 01:13:06.560 see you, uh, and talking about how do we figure out this elderly situation that we have in Littleton. Littleton has an and it's really incredible. It has an incredible need for elderly housing. I didn't realize how big it was. Mark, you said 258 01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:23.120 it a number of years ago. Um I've met with respectfully many of the elderly community in Littleton that said, "Hey, what about us? You know, how how can we do something together, S? We're going to come in front of you hopefully in the 259 01:13:23.120 --> 01:13:38.960 next 60 days with a I don't want to say a solution, but we we hope we can help support what nobody has seemed to done do in the past. And you know why, Mark? Because if people aren't building 260 01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:55.760 elderly affordable housing, why do you think the reason is? >> Because you can't make money. >> Because you can't make any money. this family as a result of working together, we're going to come in front of you and we're going to say we want to do something that's super special for the 261 01:13:55.760 --> 01:14:12.159 elderly. It it's their time. They deserve it. We've listened to them. We've met with them all behind you all behind closed doors respectfully and we're respecting their their u their opinions and their choice to you know 262 01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:28.719 say we want to be quiet about this but this is how we feel and my daughters met with them and we're going to present to you what we've heard from them. It will be through a 501c3. You know what that means? Nobody makes 263 01:14:28.719 --> 01:14:45.040 any money. And as a result of that, we feel we can help a a population in Littleton and the surrounding communities that nobody's paying attention to. No, nobody's paying attention about elderly housing because 264 01:14:45.040 --> 01:15:00.000 there's no money to be made. But somebody has to step up and donate land, donate money, figure out something. And we have a lot of experience in that. Maybe not with elderly housing, but we have experience with helping communities 265 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:15.840 that can't afford to create housing or can't afford to create the job. We're in the three poorest cities north of Boston with the biggest projects that city has ever seen. So, we want to present something to you. I'd like a little bit 266 01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:33.520 more of an opportunity for Mary Tom Brady uh to come in front of you with Morgan who is the backup quarterback for the So you keep saying when you're done s you keep saying when you're done with the residential you're 267 01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:49.040 done with it. Okay. Maybe you don't know maybe your team hasn't told you that we've approved everything. We've signed everything. So >> yeah. So I think I think this is next, right? And so and so we we wanted to get this approved 268 01:15:49.040 --> 01:16:05.360 >> and the next time you're going to see us, we will have a comprehensive program that will include a a project that will include our contribution of how we feel we can support the elderly in in the town of Littleton and the surrounding 269 01:16:05.360 --> 01:16:22.080 communities. They need it. We have a really good idea. We're going to present it and we're going to work hard. But I'm telling you, the project will go nowhere if we can't get together with this board and other boards and the association that represents the elderly. How do we 270 01:16:22.080 --> 01:16:37.199 all get together? Because this will be done by a a notfor-profit business, not a forprofit. you know, our family when we're finished, we're we're going to donate everything we need to do or 271 01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:53.440 support in any way we can or contribute in any way we can or reduce, you know, or create the infrastructure. Whatever we need to do, we're going to do it for this elderly um organization that is, by the way, maybe the number one in the entire 272 01:16:53.440 --> 01:17:08.960 state. We've convinced to listen to Littleton. >> I only got a year. >> Well, you might have to stay on for longer than a year. I mean, who's going to support Daryl and Jeff and Marggo? >> I'm done. You have anything else to add? I got At least I got I think I got an answer. 273 01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:25.040 >> I think I think we uh Thank you. I think we um we want to see the town green now. >> Thank you for your time. >> How do you follow that? >> Yeah, you don't. Uh I think we do want 274 01:17:25.040 --> 01:17:40.400 to jump in. I I I had more to say, but I think S stole some of the good thunder there and and obviously you hear the passion in our team. Um I want to hand it over to Joe. Um Facello, who I think you all know from Halverson. He's our landscape architect. Um and Joe is also 275 01:17:40.400 --> 01:17:55.360 a resident of Littleton again as you all are aware. So Joe brings an incredible perspective to um to to this vision for the town green. Um and and I guess what I would just say before handing it over, um you know, one of the things Daryl, we talked about, if you want to go to the 276 01:17:55.360 --> 01:18:12.880 next slide, Alex, this timeline hasn't changed. This is still we're on track for I think the next time we're before you'll hopefully be able to add the town green to that uh discussion. S mentioned the next uh item that we're focused on that can be added to this eventually. Um and then um you know, just an overview 277 01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:29.040 of of what we're we're sort of navigating. Obviously, we've been through phase one retail, phase one residential. Um, and we're focused now on the town green uh this evening. Um, I do want to to give it to Joe, but just to to reiterate something I think S touched on briefly, which is, you know, 278 01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:44.880 we do see this as really the heart of the project. And um we believe we have been very thoughtful and certainly want the feedback of this board and the community and the continued feedback to integrate this just to our project but also into the town into the town uh to 279 01:18:44.880 --> 01:19:00.239 the Littleton Common which is very nearby um and have it really be a complement to um to the common itself u which means it doesn't have to be the same which means it can be different and um and um and we've I think our our team has done a great job being inspired by 280 01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:15.679 some of the modern open spaces in the region, you know, from New Hampshire throughout Massachusetts of what does modern open space look like and what can it provide to a community and to a redevelopment like this. Um, and S Sal said, we really hope you guys are are proud and excited about what we're 281 01:19:15.679 --> 01:19:32.800 proposing, but we're also all ears as we have been in the past with this board and this community. We we're anxious to hear feedback and see where we can improve this, be more responsive to things. You know, we're not mind readers necessarily. Uh we do have the benefit of Joe living in the town and walking the streets more than than than some of 282 01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:48.960 us. Um but um with that I guess Joe please please take it away and and share what we've been working. >> Good evening. Uh my name is Joe Picachello. I'm a senior landscape architect at Herson Time Bond. We are the landscape consultant working on the 283 01:19:48.960 --> 01:20:05.360 design team uh for the poli. Uh and of course as Morgan mentioned I'm a resident of Littleton. Uh, so I have this unique viewpoint or this is probably the most unique project because um, as I said before, you know, not only am I 284 01:20:05.360 --> 01:20:22.560 designing it, but I need to live here and it's also kind of meaningful to me and it needs to be something that I'm proud of, something I can take my wife here, uh, and that she is willing to tell people that I was involved in it. Um so uh this is just that you know the 285 01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:38.000 opening slide kind of placing it uh kind of showing that that this what we're calling town green um you know is sort of the heart it's the center of of open space there next slide zooming in a little bit uh you know again what we're 286 01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:53.360 doing is just kind of like placing it within the context uh you know there's there's uh phase one retail off to the to the right there uh And you know what you can really see is that pedestrian core in the back there um or sort of in 287 01:20:53.360 --> 01:21:09.840 the middle there and how that kind of comes in and and trying to get the green to kind of interact there. But also then on on the King Street edge, you know, we've kind of put a lot of effort and thought into what that looks like, how we animate that uh on the phase one retail side and and how the the town 288 01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:24.480 green can start to start to kind of come down, reach down and and continue that and be a moment along there. Next slide. Um, since I knew I was going to be part of this project, every time I come through, 289 01:21:24.480 --> 01:21:41.440 uh, on my way to CVS, um, I have been kind of eyeballing and kind of thinking, okay, you know, there's this new space happening. Um, what does that mean for the town common? Um, you know, and what is that relationship there? And so uh I 290 01:21:41.440 --> 01:21:57.280 think what this slide does is it shows that there is you know it is there and it does have a presence this the space that we're creating. It may not be you know the same space may have different programming but uh it has a presence and I do think that there's kind of a visual 291 01:21:57.280 --> 01:22:14.000 connection that starts to happen. Um you know the again these are two very different spaces. Um but I think that there it's a value ad for what's happening to the to the common area. This also shows um how we're thinking about connections um you know there are crosswalk 292 01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:30.880 improvements that we're making down towards the common uh for pedestrians to get through and we're also kind of thinking about the residential you know community that's down to the southwest. How do they get up to the common and then how can they get over uh to um to 293 01:22:30.880 --> 01:22:46.320 the town of Green safely and and you know want to be a part of it feel comfortable getting there. um because that's only going to make a successful space for Littleton, for the residents there. Um and then also, you know, we're starting to illustrate where these connections in from a pedestrian 294 01:22:46.320 --> 01:23:02.000 perspective are in that phase one. We have our nice little pocket park there as kind of a moment along there and you can sort of see that there. Uh but then also here's that town green uh really having that presence there and that's kind of that moment into the into the 295 01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:19.760 project. Next slide. So, zooming in, I'm going to just kind of run through the parts uh really quick and then we'll kind of look more at programming and then there's a lot of technical aspects too that are kind of impacting uh the design. Um so, quickly 296 01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:36.960 down towards King Street, uh we have uh a smaller space. We call that sort of a front lawn. And you know, you can kind of start to see these three pieces starting to happen. So, down there again towards King Street, it's our front lawn. It's kind of like the little prominade uh to sit there, enjoy a 297 01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:53.679 little soft lawn space, but then also um kind of a pergola space um there for maybe some movable chairs um seating, aderond chairs, kind of a little gathering node, something a little a little smaller, but at the same time still feeling connected to that larger 298 01:23:53.679 --> 01:24:09.760 space just to the north. Um and in that larger space, you can see sort of two zones happening. there's sort of this this central paved zone uh which we're call zone and I do have sort of some some graphics that that start to hint 299 01:24:09.760 --> 01:24:27.040 towards how we uh evolved programming and how that impacted what we're looking at here. Um but we have that sort of central pave zone and then that sort of mediumsiz lawn area and that's sort of that secondary kind of space. Um, and then behind that or to the north of it, 300 01:24:27.040 --> 01:24:42.639 uh, we have the larger lawn area. And then sort of a an upper area there that's that's kind of brown. Uh, we call that the back deck. And that's kind of that the highest point along there. And we're sort of reading that back deck. 301 01:24:42.639 --> 01:24:59.360 And the lawn, the great lawn there is sort of that third larger space from both the programmatic perspective, but then also giving kind of variability for use, everyday use in there. but then also uh special events throughout there. Um and we're also sort of thinking about 302 01:24:59.360 --> 01:25:14.239 the residential connection there at the top uh and how that sort of comes into the space and how those residents will will be able to access use it and experience it as they come in. >> Uh go to the next slide. um and just thinking a little bit uh you know some 303 01:25:14.239 --> 01:25:30.239 some ideas that we're starting to have in terms of um daily programming um and then also some ideas of of of very early materiality thoughts. So uh all the images on the right side are projects that we've done that have similar 304 01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:47.120 conditions uh that you know sort of on the technical side that have impacted design and show how we've handled it. And then the image on the uh the lower left there uh it's another project that we did you know again technical aspect how we handle it and I and I'll kind of run through these but just kind of want 305 01:25:47.120 --> 01:26:02.880 to go through that first and then those three image there on the upper left um are not our projects but they're sort of successful ways uh that that spaces have been um programmed and sort of responded to technical aspects. So, so kind of 306 01:26:02.880 --> 01:26:19.360 down along King Street, uh, you know, at that edge there, um, from there working up to the back porch, we have about 6 ft of grade change. And what we don't want to do is sort of have just one sloping 307 01:26:19.360 --> 01:26:35.280 plane because, you know, for a couple reasons. One, it's sort of it limits programming. It limits kind of, you know, breaking down the space, offering different different areas uh for different gathering types, different group sizes, different uses. Uh and then the other is just an uncomfortable space 308 01:26:35.280 --> 01:26:52.960 to to be in. And so uh because of that we are sort of you know adding these incremental terraces very kind of kind of low shallow um in a way that will make comfortable spaces help break down the space um but also still have it feel 309 01:26:52.960 --> 01:27:09.360 like one linear space because you know this is a long space too and so there's another reason another advantage we're taken with the grade change uh is sort of breaking it down visually uh a little bit uh and so then along King Street. Um, in order to help with that initial 310 01:27:09.360 --> 01:27:25.280 grade change, we have these, we call them monumental stairs, but they're really sort of broad kind of wide uh tread stairs uh to sort of bring you up uh to that next level without it making it feel like it's this arduous climb. To 311 01:27:25.280 --> 01:27:42.400 the left there, um there is accessibility, an accessible route that is not a slope, that's a slope walk, not a technical ramp. Um, so of course we're thinking of accessibility throughout all these spaces. All these spaces are equally kind of, you know, you can get to them without having to use stairs, 312 01:27:42.400 --> 01:27:58.560 which was quite a challenge. Um, and then up along that back kind of edge there on the on that uh like 3:00 corner um of that front lawn area where we have quite a bit of grade change rather than 313 01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:13.840 just have a drop, rather than just have stairs. uh that middle image on the right uh is is um inspiration of how we're handling that corner uh where we're actually making it an element. So it'll be sort of this this tiered 314 01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:29.920 seating uh that can happen along there and it's taking advantage of exposure. It's offering, you know, a moment for medium-sized groups, one person to read a book, sit with a coffee, sit with their friend, sunbathe, wash their kids. 315 01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:46.159 Um, so that's that that corner there and and that, you know, we're seeing is kind of a warmer material, uh, right now potentially like a wood seat element there, multi-tiered. Um, and then within that front space, that lower image there, that's a that's a little pervola 316 01:28:46.159 --> 01:29:01.360 to structure there. And what that's doing is it's giving a little bit of scale as you're coming off of King Street. It's giving a little interest, vertical interest. It's scaling the buildings a little bit in the background. And it's also creating a nook or a node or moment underneath 317 01:29:01.360 --> 01:29:17.199 where again we can have movable tables and chairs uh for people to congregate or bring their coffee, bring their sandwich, both, you know, residents of Littleton, but also people that come, um to the retail areas in there. Um and 318 01:29:17.199 --> 01:29:33.440 then as we move back, uh we have the great lawn and you can see that upper image there. That's just a sort of a day-to-day experience that could happen out there where you can bring a blanket, you can hang out. Um, and you can see in the background there, um, there's also sort of a hardcape there. And that sort 319 01:29:33.440 --> 01:29:49.840 of speaks to that upper left imagery there as well where you've got our sort of your back porch. So, if you envision kind of a farmer's porch, what would happen back there? Um, you know, kind of you're sitting out there with your your aderondac chair or potentially we're 320 01:29:49.840 --> 01:30:07.600 thinking, you know, along the edge, could we introduce some swings, some sort of like porch swings back there? Um there is another grade change there where we have that those four trees before the sidewalk. So that's another edge we're thinking of rather than just be an edge that takes up grade, can we 321 01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:24.880 animate it somehow with seating that sort of speaks to that seating that's down in our front lawn area there. So it sort of starts to tie and connect everything in together. And that that back porch also needs to be pretty flexible. Um, and so, you know, we're 322 01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:42.400 seeing day-to-day maybe there's movable tables and chairs there, but you know, we have some some slides that'll show programming for events where that could be a highlight spot, a focal point for certain events as well. Um, we go to the next slide. 323 01:30:42.400 --> 01:30:57.280 Um, I think sometimes when you're looking at at plans, if you don't look at them all the time, you kind of lose a sense of scale. So, I threw this in here uh more so because we all know the that the common and that's the triangle that we're 324 01:30:57.280 --> 01:31:12.880 seeing here. Um and that's just the eastern kind of triangle of the common and overlaying it on that the space we're creating. um more so again just to get a sense of of scale of the space, not necessarily to sort of say that 325 01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:29.360 there's similarities between the two outside of that in terms of use and who's going to be there and and how that how that's going to contribute to the town. Um but it's striking anyways to to see that scale comparison. Um next slide. 326 01:31:29.360 --> 01:31:46.639 So hopefully this helps kind of illustrate a little bit the I don't want to say it's a challenge but how we are what we're working with there in terms of grade change from King Street as we work work north. Um so again it's 6 ft of grade change and what we don't want 327 01:31:46.639 --> 01:32:02.080 to do is have these sort of arduous kind of steps up zone zone zone. what we're trying to do is is sort of do incremental um kind of terrorist shallow terrace um sort of jumps. And so the lightest 328 01:32:02.080 --> 01:32:20.159 area over at King Street um that is sort of the first jump that I think that's probably about 18 in or 2 ft looks like. Yeah, 18 in um to that first zone. And then the next jump uh up uh brings us up essentially to the 329 01:32:20.159 --> 01:32:36.000 rest of the space that you know there are some subtle variations there but essentially we've managed to kind of keep it one space one linear zone even though uh we have these these great changes. Next slide. 330 01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:51.199 Um and this is looking at great changes from from the east west or the right left direction. So we have 6 ft north south. We also have about 3 4 feet east west. And these images here uh on the right are how we've handled that in 331 01:32:51.199 --> 01:33:09.440 other projects. And so the goal is uh to you know take up that grade without feeling like there's you know a grade change. So you know introducing monumental stairs, introducing planting but always sort of keeping a visual connection across. And 332 01:33:09.440 --> 01:33:25.280 also there's sort of a use differential especially on the on the left right side of the green where we've got kind of you know outdoor seating restaurant areas where you know you want to feel connected and you want to know that you're on a nice open space but at the 333 01:33:25.280 --> 01:33:41.120 same time sort of feel like you know you can be comfortable having your dinner there and not you sort of feel like you know you're also kind of um on the green. It's sort of more of a visual. Uh and so that's kind of how we've handled it again previously on on other projects 334 01:33:41.120 --> 01:33:55.840 there. Uh next slide. Uh so this is this is where we started in terms of programming. I'm going to be very quick on this. The whole point is that um you know we've got the superflex zone in the middle. You can see sort of 335 01:33:55.840 --> 01:34:12.159 that darker color. We've got on either end where our back porch is and our front lawn sort of more structured uh smaller kind of more intimate especially at the front lawn and then on the back porch where we have sort of potentially our swings you know kind of seat 336 01:34:12.159 --> 01:34:27.840 elements and those sorts of things and then at the same time we're sort of dealing with the retail edges and what those interactions are which I kind of touched on slide before and then we have our pedestrian kind of core going through there which kind of cuts through that superflex zone that we're calling 337 01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:44.719 it. And so go to the next slide. Um, we wanted to make sure based on the program that we kind of just saw and like kind of the the swirls, we want to make sure everything is sort of right sized for various events. So yes, there's going to be day-to-day out 338 01:34:44.719 --> 01:35:01.040 there, but then also there's going to be special events out there. And we wanted to make sure that kind of medium events uh could happen out there. Again, this is our our our back porch. potentially could be kind of a screen setup and you can have, you know, movie zone there on the great lawn, but then still have 339 01:35:01.040 --> 01:35:16.000 other activities so it doesn't sort of take over the entire space. And then next slide, kind of larger events. We thought about that. What does that look like? You know, is it is it feasible? Is it possible? You know, again, making sure proportions were right, not too out of 340 01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:32.000 scale because these don't happen often, but you still feel comfortable in these spaces. Next slide. Uh and then seasonal events, you know, kind of bringing in uh you know, petting zoos or or you know, popup kind of uh 341 01:35:32.000 --> 01:35:48.880 shop events out there and what what those could start to look like, where they can be placed um and yet um still on the day-to-day again have this space feel like it's not too big. And I think that's it. We closing out with a couple of views. 342 01:35:48.880 --> 01:36:05.520 You know, this is our our front lawn here, and you can see the scale of it. It's kind of smaller, intimate, um, you know, with that flexible seating in the in that middle there just behind the lawn. You can kind of see how we're handling that front edge and that initial grade change, um, along there. 343 01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:22.719 And then next slide, this is kind of that middle zone, uh, that mediumsiz lawn and how that interacts with that that plaza space, um, just to the left there. And then also you can see how we're handling that gray change on the right. Uh it's very subtle. Um you know, 344 01:36:22.719 --> 01:36:37.360 even though it's it's there, we're kind of working with it. Um and using it to our advantage to sort of designate zones without making it feel like these are completely separate spaces there. Um and I think that's that's all we got for 345 01:36:37.360 --> 01:36:55.840 here. >> Thank you very much. Um so we'll um for this discussion we're probably just going to ask questions. Um the one question that 346 01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:12.000 I have um is if you could provide us uh with on on a a rendering where the existing tuttle house is, I think it will help us 347 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:30.320 all situate ourselves in the context of what exactly this screen is going to do. And then the next question is the total cost. We are displacing the tough house and Martin. >> Yes. Um you know I think for the sake of 348 01:37:30.320 --> 01:37:46.719 this presentation we look at it trying to work around it to keep it in to to avoid you know solving it for this effort. But the short answer is yes. Um the the way that you heard Joe speak about the grading um it benefits the project and and and the tunnel house 349 01:37:46.719 --> 01:38:02.880 itself for us to relocate it within the property. So I think as part of our our next step uh we mentioned the affordable housing piece that is we want that to be part of the story as well. Not not specifically affordable housing but where what happens at the title house where that could go. We've heard some suggestions from the board in the past. 350 01:38:02.880 --> 01:38:18.400 We're looking we're really looking at at and and studying that option um or those options as we speak. And so we are working to have a definitive answer for where that goes on the on the site um and hopefully nearby. But uh for for the success of this town green, it makes 351 01:38:18.400 --> 01:38:32.400 sense to to relocate it. >> Well, that's fine. I the the only reason I wanted to see where the title house is when it said town green so we can look at the title house and imagine is that the location of the town green, you know, is that what we're saying? It's 352 01:38:32.400 --> 01:38:48.320 essentially at the end of Steven Street. Anyway, so that being said, um the other uh with regard to the existing landscape, um is there any way you can incorporate 353 01:38:48.320 --> 01:39:04.960 some of the old granite into the hardcape or >> Yeah, we we could do an inventory and see what makes sense and and how this is a remaining historic landscape and it's it's uh survived, you know, through two 354 01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:21.040 itation. ations of you know 550 king and then you know with when it was digital and in IBM title house was moved so you know old brand is beautiful we have a lot of old brand around >> it would be nice to have that ghost of the historic landscape 355 01:39:21.040 --> 01:39:37.760 >> we have plenty of great change to >> integrate >> and I would also say that's that's a great reminder Jeff and um I think there's also you know there's a the vista or the prominade beyond this that goes past the um the the residential area that we're building to. So there's 356 01:39:37.760 --> 01:39:53.520 a lot of opportunities I think and unless you're just saying specifically try to replicate, but I don't think you're saying that repurposing to have a ghost of it somewhere in this on the space where it was. >> Yeah. Well, we that's a great idea. 357 01:39:53.520 --> 01:40:10.159 >> Okay, Darl, comments? >> No, I I I liked what I saw here. you um you know I think the only question I had and I think you kind of addressed it in your medium event would be is this easy to have like a you know one of the businesses wanted to sponsor like a a local mobile local group or something to 358 01:40:10.159 --> 01:40:26.880 do like a little thing and then have you know the restaurants you know have a kiosk or something for >> food and beverage uh there it looks like that's a count account countable terms of the things the various options that you could go through I think you you know I guess you know you still might 359 01:40:26.880 --> 01:40:42.239 want to I I know what you're trying to do with the grading and everything there. Uh just make sure it's not too too roundabout for a handicap access in order to access the uh the you know the businesses that are on that side on the 360 01:40:42.239 --> 01:40:58.400 right side >> there because it does look like uh they they have quite a hike uh there from Gang Street. >> Yeah. >> In terms of being able to make sure they navigate around because I don't I didn't see if you could actually cut across in the middle there or not. I looked I 361 01:40:58.400 --> 01:41:13.840 wasn't sure if there was a stairwell. >> So the issue is you created as you said a not a handicap ramp which would have to have this basically a slope walk naturalistic. >> Yeah. Much better. Right. Yeah. 362 01:41:13.840 --> 01:41:28.480 >> Yeah. For sure. >> Yeah. I mean, physically I like it, but I I just want to be sensitive to make sure that it's not too inaccessible for the handicap access uh there because, you know, you know, my mother was with a 363 01:41:28.480 --> 01:41:45.440 walker. Uh it would be hours for me to get her over from King Street into one of those restaurants. >> And we can also I mean, it's not your point, but I'd also locate where the the handicap parking is, the accessible parking is too. That's another piece of it. And and story better. You didn't ask 364 01:41:45.440 --> 01:42:01.920 this, but I'm I want to get ahead of it because Joe and I meant to mention it. Um, part of part of the, you know, again, as we iterate here and as we advance some of the the drawings, we remain, and I just I want to reiterate this is we are committed to putting public uh bathrooms in the phase that's 365 01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:18.159 just to the left of the green. And we're very motivated to make that one of the the next phases um because we want to bookend this. We don't want construction on the green once it's all beautiful. So, um that will absolutely be delivered in that in that uh in those structures. It just has to be strategically thought 366 01:42:18.159 --> 01:42:36.159 out and as we finalize kind of what the tenant is and how it interacts uh with with that that new building or buildings. Um you know, that's obviously a funky use. We want to make sure it's both visible but not intrusive to what this experience could be. So, >> I I want to go back to um 367 01:42:36.159 --> 01:42:53.199 the idea of your programming and everything. It's very enticing. How does Lei feel about how do you feel about who's responsible for that program and who will be sponsoring it? Who will be uh approving it? Who you know how how 368 01:42:53.199 --> 01:43:09.360 will how do you envision that working? >> So you our intent is to to and this is similar to as S mentioned our our uh you 4 million square ft in Lawrence uh slightly smaller as you can imagine but we we manage and program that entirely ourselves with our with our staff. Um, 369 01:43:09.360 --> 01:43:25.520 it's a collaborative programming I would say though we work with our tenants and sort of Daryl alluded to this but it's making sure well if you're making this widget can that be something we integrate into a program or you know one month we're celebrating one tenant or we're all getting the tenants together and they want to do this one big event 370 01:43:25.520 --> 01:43:42.159 you know during the fall for example then we're all working together but our our team um has a ton of experience leading that um leading that charge and working with our with our tenants and then then on top of that we'll also have this new housing which each of these new apartment buildings will have their own property managers and they would you 371 01:43:42.159 --> 01:44:00.159 know like to work with them in terms of you know tenant appreciation uh weeks and and also integrating that residential element toward into the uh the more commercial uh piece of this. So we we have a ton of experience doing that and we we'll oversee it. >> That's great. I think you need to just 372 01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:17.920 be specific about expectations of town people because it's not really a public space. It's your space and that's great, but you know how's how's that going to work? Rules and regulations. I don't I 373 01:44:17.920 --> 01:44:35.199 don't know. I mean, it's um it's not a common it's a you know, it's a green as part of a giant um you know, it's an amenity for this giant development and which the town will be able to benefit from. Uh that's all I mean I think we 374 01:44:35.199 --> 01:44:51.119 just need to keep that in our mind that um that you know it's not the common although the common is a park and it's it's regulated by the town and etc. Well, I would say we hope to collaborate with 375 01:44:51.119 --> 01:45:07.760 the town on and have whether it's a you know, it's very hard obviously to cross um you know, King Street if if there's a big event, but you know, we would work with the town and maybe mass the OT if we needed to do that or just have you know, police details, but um I think our dream isn't for it and part of the 376 01:45:07.760 --> 01:45:23.760 design is that this is an open door to welcome everybody in. And I mean, even today as we're on the site, we often run into neighbors who are either walking their dog on the site and obviously it's just a parking lot today. And so we're we're excited about that door being open con like 24/7 for people to come on and 377 01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:39.199 experience this uh and you know after dinner they're hanging out there still and and all those elements. So that's our that's our vision and dream and it will take it will take conversations and and collaboration with the with the town and >> it may be useful to designate you know 378 01:45:39.199 --> 01:45:55.280 uh just as like there's a notional position of building manager whether we who would it might be nice to designate some function as a event coordinator. >> Yep. that if the public did want to inquire about if there's a point of entry for that or if Park and Recck 379 01:45:55.280 --> 01:46:11.760 wanted to make sure they collaborated, there's a formal point of contact for it. Whether it's a formal office or anything doesn't matter. But the just the concept of having an event coordinator >> for managing that space might be useful. you we'll have people on site who are just living and breathing this and and and then collaborating 380 01:46:11.760 --> 01:46:26.800 >> but just making it public that that's why and I think that clarifies the >> well how do I how I want to I want to sponsor something on you know >> right there'll be an incredible website as well with a ton of contact and updates and calendars and those things 381 01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:45.920 as well once we get sort of a critical mass but and we would definitely include that on that and um but but good I also appreciate the way the grading is handled and the way this long space is divided up into segments. What I'm 382 01:46:45.920 --> 01:47:03.760 missing is um the um environment in Littleton which is rural and full of trees and um this is got a few trees in it but and I was thinking during the presentation that I wanted 383 01:47:03.760 --> 01:47:20.239 looking at the plans I wanted to see a grove of trees in there and looking at the you know the elevations the perspectives I'm not sure where to put it or how that would work but I would really like to see more trees. And I mean, the grove probably isn't going to 384 01:47:20.239 --> 01:47:38.639 work with your plans, but um I I just I just want I just I think it would help to >> um break it up even more. I think that would help um some just to have certain different rooms more clearly divided. 385 01:47:38.639 --> 01:47:52.639 Um I don't know where else to go. It's it's Yes. And it's it's a little limiting um where you know we don't want to put trees for instance you know you kind of just mentioned kind of breaking up rooms and using that way and we did 386 01:47:52.639 --> 01:48:09.520 look at that um and what that did was our initial or at least my nature was it's sort of cutting it off from King Street a little bit too much and there's something nice about this Vista kind of in there especially you know given how 387 01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:27.920 how long it is um and So again, we looked at it and it was and the other uh thing is it's it's really kind of a narrow >> it is space and and you can see sort of where where we sort of did put the trees 388 01:48:27.920 --> 01:48:45.760 in. >> Um you know it helped soften the edges. Right. Exactly. So so there are key areas where we can start to do it. But I just I just want to, you know, let you know that we did look at it and and there are, you know, key zones we could 389 01:48:45.760 --> 01:49:00.960 do it. Um, but our concern was that it felt like it was cutting it off a little bit too much potentially if we made a grove in there. >> Well, maybe I'm being a little bit too strong with the word grove, but >> Okay. >> I mean, maybe, you know, just three 390 01:49:00.960 --> 01:49:18.000 trees along along, you know, the the the right side of that green >> for sure >> would would create We call them bouquetsarent enough to >> bouquets of trees is what we call them where it's sort of a it's a punctuation. >> Yeah. Something. But 391 01:49:18.000 --> 01:49:33.280 >> at the same time though, I do appreciate, you know, at the top of the thing there where you have this a double row of trees to put a little bit more buffer between the roadway up there. >> Yeah. >> So, >> we can bouquet that up. Yes, that would 392 01:49:33.280 --> 01:49:49.600 be a good feel because I think like I I look at this and there's so much that I like about it, but I'm also reminded of um like the like the Marramac Commons outlet mall where where they've created nice spaces 393 01:49:49.600 --> 01:50:05.199 where like the trees are in giant pots and all and it's very constrained and manicured and I think to feel more natural with trees to soften the edges and all feel more of Littleton. That that could definitely go a long way. I 394 01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:20.960 guess to to piggyback on that too, um, one question that I had heard from residents was saying, is it going to be just a lawn that requires a lot of pesticide or what can we do to also have more native plantings, wild flowers, 395 01:50:20.960 --> 01:50:37.600 that type of thing? cuz that maybe you're already aware but that's already been I don't want to say an issue but um like right now at the library that's become like a point of contention because there's a big wildflower native planting area there that they're considering well actually point out 396 01:50:37.600 --> 01:50:53.520 there that they're looking at well do we need to kind of contain it more and like leaf blow and I think being able to have more of those natural places within it seems like that speaks to the needs of a lot of residents That's too 397 01:50:53.520 --> 01:51:12.239 >> I'm assuming this is going to be artificial, right? >> No. No. This is very >> uh So, so >> maybe maybe it is going to be out of What about dogs too by the way? >> Um >> I I I don't I'm not I don't know what 398 01:51:12.239 --> 01:51:27.920 the what the >> I don't know how >> people would be walking through here with dogs. >> Yes. But but I think there's sort of that that line of making it a dog park. You know what I mean? Sort of like not making it a dog park but >> right you know it's just there's this 399 01:51:27.920 --> 01:51:44.080 natural tendency of I mean I had a laugh for 14 years >> if there's a long stretch >> we're working through that but I think it's mostly mostly real. I mean what I would say is on this point we and I wanted to say this in the beginning too. 400 01:51:44.080 --> 01:51:59.199 When we showed the fly through originally and some of the old plans and I think Chris showed them earlier, there was a ton more heartscape here and we were thinking of it, you know, we thought of it more as program space and gathering and this iteration has been response responding to I think board 401 01:51:59.199 --> 01:52:14.719 members and community members in the past having seen that in passing saying, "Hey, that's just too much. We it's not green enough." So, I'm not saying this is, you know, the limit of it, but I think we have tried to be responsive to that to add more green in. But I hear you too on I mean we're we're focused on the maintenance. We don't want this to 402 01:52:14.719 --> 01:52:31.679 be brown. Um you know we we we got to work with Joe and his team to make sure that it thrives. But it does want to be something welcoming where you want to have sit down on it too maybe with like a blanket or uh you know your kids or whatever. >> And and so regard you know the materials you know evolve right and so whether 403 01:52:31.679 --> 01:52:47.920 whether this is this is this is real or not we we do know that this is going to be a high use area. And one of the ways you sort of cut down on on on pesticides, those sorts of things, is making sure that, you know, if it is lawn, grass, turf, it's healthy and it 404 01:52:47.920 --> 01:53:03.520 can thrive. And so we do have a soil scientist that would you know look at the the material and it's called a high use lawn mix essentially that that again if it is lawn uh would help you know 405 01:53:03.520 --> 01:53:18.159 keep the lawn looking healthy and thriving and people can still kind of walk through it. they can, you know, have events out here and it'll sort of come back and and and be happier than if it was just, you know, regular soil with seed out there. 406 01:53:18.159 --> 01:53:35.520 >> That that is terrific messaging to get out into the community. I think that that would be really good for people to hear. Um I guess also and I'm sorry. >> Okay. Um I was curious if you could share um like 407 01:53:35.520 --> 01:53:52.239 what the what the thinking is either what you've already done or what you'll do in the future to kind of survey Littleton residents or engage with people to find out more about what sort of programming people would want to see. And I'm asking because um at uh meet the 408 01:53:52.239 --> 01:54:09.199 candidates uh the forum this week, someone approached me and said, you know, what could we do to have like if there was a farmers market there? I was like, I I don't know. I guess you'd have to like talk to them and whatnot. And I said, but if that's something that you'd want to see there, it would be good for 409 01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:26.000 you all to hear that so that you could think, well, what do what do local farmers need? Okay, do they need like more pergolas or something like that to create shade? So, I think opening up those lines of communication to see how people would want to use this space would be good, too. >> Yeah, that's that's a great suggestion. 410 01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:42.080 And um you know, we want the right people on our team in those meetings as well as is potentially the future planners. But I what I would say to Joe and his team's credit. I mean, some of that stuff, the flexibility they've created in that already allows for that. And you know, we need to to drill down on you know, maybe there's we got to make sure there's power out there and 411 01:54:42.080 --> 01:54:58.080 and those kinds of thing and the public bathrooms like you've said, Marco. Um, we we have a certain level of thoughtfulness there, but it's going to have to continue to evolve and and the challenge would be to to create a place that has that flexibility, too, because it's too regimented, then some some idea 412 01:54:58.080 --> 01:55:14.239 next year that comes up um from a from a community member, we might not be able to respond to. But I think so if we keep that flexibility, um we should be able to be able to say yes to a lot more. >> You saw our our programming swirl diagram. And so that kind of speaks to like it, you know, the flexibility that 413 01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:29.760 needs to be inherent in this yet make it look like it's a space. You know what I mean? There's a lot of layers. >> Yes. >> Like Lawrence, you have an onsite, your office is in Lawrence. So I'm assuming you're going to have an on-site office here. 414 01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:46.159 >> So that if the town wants to do a farmers market, and I think a farmer market is a great idea, right? But I would want to put the farmers market in the parking lot because everybody who's going to be putting their stuff at the farmers market is going to pull up in trucks. Maybe it's augmented next to this. You have the right 415 01:55:46.159 --> 01:56:03.440 >> standalone little kiosk that people can bring set up like they do with the flea market, but the actual farmers markets with the trucks and the produce and everything else would be supplemental to this in a garage. And it'd be nice if it was a one-stop shop to go to. Okay, we're going to do a farming market every 416 01:56:03.440 --> 01:56:19.199 first Saturday of the month and your office would coordinate that with the towns. >> 100%. >> For sure. Yep. >> Yep. And then we and that office like if someone new wants to come to the farmers market and you know a new a new station and they would come talk to them and sign up and maybe it would be you know 417 01:56:19.199 --> 01:56:35.599 two months from now they can join whatever whatever all that stuff. >> It becomes where our third Thursday is or >> there you go. >> On Friday night they come to your office and set it up. That's how it was originally going to be and we had the skating and stuff at the point but that's the terracing at the point was 418 01:56:35.599 --> 01:56:51.119 that kind of idea we do some sort of hasn't happened other than one or two years we had the hockey rink up there the skating rink it just is too small for that >> forgot about that >> did you think and this is what came with the idea of what do you do with the lawn 419 01:56:51.119 --> 01:57:06.639 in the winter well >> you know a lot of backyards flood and >> and it doesn't have to be a hockey rink it can just if you have something you can turn around. >> Remember too, the tunnel house is still going to have some sort of green space around that part too. No matter where it moves and everything else, some of the 420 01:57:06.639 --> 01:57:22.320 trees are going to >> hopefully stay with the tunnel house. >> Well, yeah. And and we should if we go to the first our second slide or third second slide, I think. But I mean, >> um nope there. I mean, S was reminding me, I mean, if you go just if you see that 421 01:57:22.320 --> 01:57:38.080 this open space just continues to go back and so all of that green space up there too is is an opportunity for um additional trees or like to your point, but and we can Joe and I are walking around trying to see what other trees on site today that we can that we can 422 01:57:38.080 --> 01:57:54.239 repurpose uh that make sense. Um and and and so we're doing that work now as well and that'll get integrated to all parts of the the campus. Of course, the main tree is the one between the two buildings, >> correct? >> So, I I'd just like to um sum up a little bit. 423 01:57:54.239 --> 01:58:10.080 >> You presented something that really, you know, can stimulate a lot of um ideas and hopes and um potential future good times. And it, you know, 424 01:58:10.080 --> 01:58:26.480 it's you've set that up. I mean take take the the comments in stride as you know sort of nits compared to the overall organization which is 425 01:58:26.480 --> 01:58:45.360 I think um well thought out and I I know in the original you know years ago there was I I talked to Rick Fryberg and I said all these giant plazas is that you're building, you know, no, and I 426 01:58:45.360 --> 01:59:03.199 think you've made a very nice um compromise between the needs of moving around site, creating spaces for different activities. I really enjoy, it's a small thing, but the the the connection you have between the 427 01:59:03.199 --> 01:59:20.560 pedestrian and, you know, the the sort of middle terrace, which isn't is is just really pleasant seeming to me and as opposed to you could have just put something straight through and you 428 01:59:20.560 --> 01:59:40.719 know I I think the whole um vibe is uh very relaxed and um I think would be very pleasant >> and an offset in the horizontal path is great. You need more of that straight 429 01:59:40.719 --> 01:59:56.080 lines. >> The challenge of the site becomes a part of what makes it feel unique and authentic and not just some flat rectangle. So yeah, I credit to Joe and his team and our team for you know putting in our own feedback too. >> Have you is there any development um ideas of what the buildings are on the 430 01:59:56.080 --> 02:00:11.440 left side? >> We've seen some getting ahead of us. We'll come >> No, no, we we have an idea there for a hotel and more restaurants and more activation. So we really want this town to be the center of all that action. So, um it'll it'll be a mix of some of those uses 431 02:00:11.440 --> 02:00:28.080 >> and and I I would encourage you to take an attitude about um whether how you how you have a with these new buildings, how you have a stronger connection to the 432 02:00:28.080 --> 02:00:44.560 um existing town con, whether it's visual, whether it's pedestrian, whether it's whatever. and the buildings might be able to enforce that. Understood. >> Thank you. >> So, thank you very much. 433 02:00:44.560 --> 02:01:05.119 >> Yes. >> Um, that being said, >> so Oh, >> yes. Is there Yes, Mark. >> George says >> three minutes. >> Uh, Mark Franbacher Heartwell app. I 434 02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:21.920 like a lot of the comments that you guys all said with, you know, reusing the granite and um I will um and a lot of the comments Margot and everyone else said. I would also like to say that from what I'm hearing around town like it's currently basically an old pear orchard. 435 02:01:21.920 --> 02:01:38.639 If you could when you were planting the trees, keep in mind what is existing there. And I know you probably can't save a lot of it, but if you can replicate it, that would be helpful for the town residents to feel connected to what is currently there as you're going 436 02:01:38.639 --> 02:01:53.920 forward. So, you know, at least some of the trees being pure trees, if not all. And to what Margot, um I will tell you that um turf will not be very popular in town. if you they'd much prefer clover than 437 02:01:53.920 --> 02:02:11.440 turf or something more like that that's feels much more in the character of Littleton than a manicured lawn. So just keep that type of things in mind. Um I like the reusing of the granite and everything else that was said too but like um >> can I comment on the pair? 438 02:02:11.440 --> 02:02:29.199 It historically was a par orchard. When IBM came in and they moved um the Tuttle house, they made a gesture toward a pair orchard with planting Bradford pears, which are not fruing pears. And in fact, I'm not even sure 439 02:02:29.199 --> 02:02:45.520 they're not even in Massachusetts. >> Yeah, they're so so those particular trees have no historic. However, it might be nice to have a couple pair cultivars somewhere, even if it's spelier or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, 440 02:02:45.520 --> 02:03:03.119 >> thank you. >> Maybe some apple trees from the apple to be >> the agricultural. >> I'm just happy there's that. >> Just identify yourself. Yeah. >> Jerry Kavalo, eight ups road. I'm a 441 02:03:03.119 --> 02:03:20.320 member of the agricultural commission and um I thought this was going to be a tough cell what I'm going to ask for but hearing S's speech maybe not so much but just in case I don't want to leave anything on the table s I had pizza at the mobile for lunch I had Sal's pizza 442 02:03:20.320 --> 02:03:37.360 I'm originally from New Jersey and Sal's pizza is the only pie I'll eat so the ad commission would like to investigate the feasibility of allowing a farmers market on the town green. The purpose would be to improve the viability of Littleton Farms. Uh we're 443 02:03:37.360 --> 02:03:55.040 thinking maybe Friday or Saturday, 4 hours, midday. Um we would want to limit sales to fresh fruit, vegetables, and fresh meat. Uh um we are sensitive to not compete with the paying retailers that are at the site. 444 02:03:55.040 --> 02:04:11.840 Now, my big ask, my big ask is that it would be helpful to have a gazebo or some sort of covering to avoid having to bring all these popup canopies. Um, it rains. We don't don't think we don't need any power. We just need Wi-Fi. And 445 02:04:11.840 --> 02:04:27.599 um I didn't see anything. There were some pictures of it there of of a canopy, but a lot of them look like just sun shades. But it does rain. Unlike these pictures where all sunny days, it does rain in the summer. You have pop-up summers storms and whatnot. And um the possibility of doing it year round 446 02:04:27.599 --> 02:04:43.119 because we do have some year- round farms in town. And the reason we like to do this is we have a couple of farms that have their own stores, but um a lot of times people just drive right by there. They're just in the habit of not stopping in. So we want to reach out to 447 02:04:43.119 --> 02:04:57.760 where the people are and the people are going to be here and they're going to be out of their cars. So, it would be a great place to have a farmers market and we're hoping that uh we could work something out. >> So, Jerry, how would you see um I mean 448 02:04:57.760 --> 02:05:15.119 yes to everything you've said. Um is a possibility. How would you how would we want to get I mean in the past the ad commission has not been in favor of farmers markets. Um so that's a change of heart. 449 02:05:15.119 --> 02:05:30.880 >> Yes, it was voted on. Yeah, that was a point to come here and tell you. >> I think that's that's great. Um, so how you know because we have silos of this committee does that, this committee does. How do we get this? Um, 450 02:05:30.880 --> 02:05:47.280 >> well, we would like to play an active role in managing it. I know we the thought was we would vet the farms that come here and how they would operate and then we'd bring that to the folks who administer what goes on there and bring it up to them and they would be the final decision on it. But the adcom 451 02:05:47.280 --> 02:06:04.000 would like to become more active in managing um what goes on in town for farms and this particular activity. So the other issue is uh you would need to come up with some meeting of the minds of how big, 452 02:06:04.000 --> 02:06:21.760 how often, how many I mean I my my view is that to have structures maybe not be feasible because they're going to be empty most of the time, but also how how much room would you need? I mean we're 453 02:06:21.760 --> 02:06:36.800 talking about several farms. We're not uh >> at the most. >> Okay. Right. And does that include you? And >> yeah, you the idea what I'm saying is it's not a big it's not a big complex. 454 02:06:36.800 --> 02:06:53.360 >> No, to to plan for it, they would need to have some indication of >> I think we talked about the mechanism is is that the they're going to have a designated what we've called the virtual, you know, coordinator for this space. And it sounds like that would be 455 02:06:53.360 --> 02:07:08.960 your PC, not the planning board for >> having such a thing. And I didn't hear that they said that they would be opposed to such an activity. >> Right. So agreement then. >> Okay, good. Um, so the size of the space would be very very similar what you 456 02:07:08.960 --> 02:07:24.560 would mention having a vocal group or something there, uh, some sort of entertainment. It would just be that space. Um, and when we're not using it, of course, it would be used for other things and maybe even people would eat 457 02:07:24.560 --> 02:07:40.960 lunch there. We were only talking about four hours, maybe Saturdays, Friday, Saturday. It wouldn't be a lot of time. >> Well, wouldn't you want to open it up to any farmer that wanted to do it on a regular basis and have something bigger? I envision the parking lots that aren't 458 02:07:40.960 --> 02:07:57.679 going to be o overly used during Saturdays or Sundays, having 20 or 30 different farmers there and having agriculture, having meat, having seafood, a little bit of everything there and something a draw for people to look forward to coming to for that. I 459 02:07:57.679 --> 02:08:12.880 would think then you could have a permanence. You could have a tent put up every Friday night and maybe they own the poly company owns the tent. They put it up Friday night. We have the farmers market on Saturday or Sunday or what, however they work. But for more than just the five farms that are in 460 02:08:12.880 --> 02:08:28.480 Littleton, you have it as a farm, a real farmers market. >> But maybe you still spotlight like these little five of little and then others that would help draw in a far. >> Don't you think it makes more sense? >> There are places like north of Boston. I go to farmers markets all around. You get blown out by these big farms. So 461 02:08:28.480 --> 02:08:44.880 we're specifically looking for incre improving the viability of Littleton farms. This is in Littleton. We want the folks down on 119 don't want to have to, you know, they just they just come up here and drop the stuff off. It's not that far away. Small group, not a parking lot kind of thing. In the 462 02:08:44.880 --> 02:09:00.400 parking lots, people park their cars and they walk right by it. I got to tell you, when you go to farmers markets, 95% what's sold at the farmers markets I go to is like fried bread, you know, regular bread, you know, things that people go for. This is going 463 02:09:00.400 --> 02:09:15.840 to be a true um farmers market where you get fresh fruit, vegetables, and fresh meat. >> So, it seems like >> I'm willing to bet you if you do start go down this road, it's going to be a lot bigger than you think it is cuz once you let five Littleton residents in, then everyone else is going to pay you 464 02:09:15.840 --> 02:09:32.400 back. But I'm just saying ahead. >> Bigger. >> Well, we don't really want to go big. We are a little town and we just want to increase. We want to >> It used to be a farm that where this area is. It used to be a pear orchard apparently and we just want to carry on that 465 02:09:32.400 --> 02:09:46.880 >> that feeling. >> Well, it seems like you would also want to negotiate if you did this the criteria for setting up which would not include if your goal is to support the 466 02:09:46.880 --> 02:10:01.280 local farms. I mean, this is all we're talking about and we're not going to get it, >> you know, um, organized at this meeting. But, >> no, >> I'm presenting you. There's Morgan right 467 02:10:01.280 --> 02:10:20.000 there. Um, and, uh, I think, uh, I'm I'm impressed that the A commission members have come together on this and so we need to consider it and respect it. >> Okay. >> Okay. So why Jerry, why don't you exchange 468 02:10:20.000 --> 02:10:34.719 the numbers? >> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Any anyone else? >> Uh that being said, um we will um close this. We're not closing the 469 02:10:34.719 --> 02:10:52.400 hearing, but we need to um reschedu >> continue. Uh and do we want to do it at 14? I think so. >> So, um, are we where are we at with the storm water? You know, storm water review on this. 470 02:10:52.400 --> 02:11:08.400 >> Um, >> I don't think they got comments back yet. >> So, >> we won't necessarily have that for next meeting. >> Um, I think it's supposed to be I'll double check um that it'll be worthwhile to have it in two weeks, but I think 471 02:11:08.400 --> 02:11:29.840 they have started the peer review. So in the in the interest of Mr. Lefoli's pep talk, we you know we want to push this along. So that's what I'm trying to figure out. >> We will we will set out the time for the 14th and if it doesn't work then >> appreciate it. Yeah. So we'll 472 02:11:29.840 --> 02:11:47.320 I guess where I was going to I think summarize similar is is that we'll you know continue the meeting till the next meeting with hopefully the intent to wrap up the storm water review and issue the approval. 473 02:11:47.520 --> 02:12:03.760 And then if the storm water is not review ready, we'll have to just do we have a time post 640 6:35 whatever is the first slot. >> So let's for 640. >> Sure. >> Okay. That being said, may I have a 474 02:12:03.760 --> 02:12:23.520 motion to close? Okay. Well, first I was going to I'm still trying to get us out of here. Uh, can I have a motion to continue this hearing to March 14th at 6:4? >> Second. >> All in favor? 475 02:12:23.520 --> 02:12:40.560 >> I. >> Next item of business. Finally. Uh, do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion. Jail. >> Oh, we have to do jail. >> You are just >> I just want to go. >> Um, so Marin, can you introduce this uh 476 02:12:40.560 --> 02:12:57.119 topic? I hope so. >> Okay. Um let's see. So the JB team is asking there we go. U development team is 477 02:12:57.119 --> 02:13:12.800 asking um for the five parcels um that JL that comprise the JLB development planning would allow those to transfer to JB for their assigned. Um 478 02:13:12.800 --> 02:13:31.520 question um that's come up from town council is the how does the board want to see um exactly who the parcel is transferred to or 479 02:13:31.520 --> 02:13:47.280 >> so this relates to the covenant uh issue or how does this relate to the covenant issue that we talked about at the beginning of the meeting? It's similar, but now we're getting down to the details of who we building and the parcels we 480 02:13:47.280 --> 02:14:05.679 trans. >> Okay. Morgan, is this an issue of financial entities or different owners? >> This is a matter of uh financial entities. It's it's the what we're we're again what we're trying to solve here is 481 02:14:05.679 --> 02:14:21.040 that the the nature of the length of the special permit requires any any entity change we have to get approval from the board. When if we change an LLC like we did previously was we owned 100% of it but we were refinancing it and we we were having a different banks. We need a different LLC. We came before the board. 482 02:14:21.040 --> 02:14:36.000 The board approved that as you may recall that was last year. Our partnership with JB the nature of it is the nature of the timing. We don't have an LLC set yet. So, we're using this JLB LLC as a placeholder, but instead of then just knowing we're going 483 02:14:36.000 --> 02:14:51.599 to have to come back for the board once that LLC is finalized, we've we've introduced language that says or affiliate, and I I don't have in front of me, Mark, if you want to read it or not, but it it basically allows that. It's still the same ownership group, but it's just a different name. And so, we're trying to >> set up a name. Yeah. 484 02:14:51.599 --> 02:15:08.000 >> Correct. So, we're trying to avoid that administrative. >> Why do we need to do this now? because it's part of I think it's in within the uh oh it was it wasn't included in the decision and >> no I'm not saying why do we have to do not why do we have to do this but why do we have to do this have this 485 02:15:08.000 --> 02:15:24.480 >> we're trying to check the boxes I guess Jeff I don't mean to be this we're trying to to not have this be something that holds us up as we you know finalize debt or finalize um any other financing or focused on signing a GMP all those things it's it we don't want it to be an 486 02:15:24.480 --> 02:15:40.960 issue where people are on vacation or we're scrambling to have a rush meeting and so we're we're trying to be proactive about it candidly. >> So So could we on the board side by tomorrow and and town council sort of what Mark talked about before clarify whether which part 487 02:15:40.960 --> 02:15:57.440 are we actually concerned of? Are we concerned about the ownership aspects of the of the um lots there or the financing entities that are partnering with them behind the scenes? And I think we need clarity on that. And then which part are we concerned about? and then 488 02:15:57.440 --> 02:16:13.119 provide the appropriate relief if if necessary in the in the permit uh that if it's not concerned about the financing part sub entities I I think I need clarity in terms of what is our concern and then if we have a concern 489 02:16:13.119 --> 02:16:28.960 that Mark says we don't usually have do we just grant relief in permit and so we not not in the same situation for the same event >> the non same non-event I >> only we had was when there was a sale. >> So can we >> so why don't we clarify 490 02:16:28.960 --> 02:16:46.080 >> schedule this for the 14th. >> Okay. >> Um because that at that point we will deal with the covenant the myar and this issue which seem to be related somewhat. Is it fair to to Darl's question or point that the board in the meantime 491 02:16:46.080 --> 02:17:02.719 somehow comes to that understanding because I think that >> No, I mean I think what the is what Mark has said that I agree with what Mark said and we are >> and that's the question to the board is >> and and now town council can have 492 02:17:02.719 --> 02:17:19.200 clarity that you're you're not concerned about um refinancing. No, >> you are. But um if parcels transfer um you have granted uh approvals for development team as as it is now or you 493 02:17:19.200 --> 02:17:36.399 know maybe reconstituted but if it goes any further than that that >> is that has like diver dvest themselves totally of those lots we get I think we we have concern about that until the development's complete 494 02:17:36.399 --> 02:17:52.399 >> but that's not what we're talking So, we want to get clarity, >> right, and just have an agreement on on what morning >> and then if we're our special permit is overly constricted, we can maybe >> I might be able to propose something too for the council to consider as well. >> So, I think we're the to sum it all up, 495 02:17:52.399 --> 02:18:08.719 we're okay as long as everything's short of a sale of the property, we're good with we'll take it. You don't need to come and see us, I guess, is the best way to put it. It's just short of a sale. >> I hear you. >> This is a a transfer. Is that is that a sale? 496 02:18:08.719 --> 02:18:24.639 >> But it's transferred to >> one of the same entities >> from one all the same entities. It's not a sale. It's just it's just changing LLC's and stuff like capital Finance and we've allowed that for 30 years here. It's not a it's not a big hoop to jump through, 497 02:18:24.639 --> 02:18:41.439 >> right? It just the names are changing. >> So, it's two weeks. >> Uh oh. Uh >> oh. >> I thought we're getting out of here anytime soon. I guess that might help. >> So, so let me just give you an example. So, I own all the real estate. We've 498 02:18:41.439 --> 02:18:58.960 broken this up into 20 odd lots. Every lot will have a separate LLC. Within that LLC, I'm uh J uh JLB and our family are partnering together. We can't have the existing LLC. We have to create a new one. They have to enter into it. 499 02:18:58.960 --> 02:19:15.760 Now, we are partners. So theoretically I am uh I am partnering with JLB to create a new lot because they will not be able to get we will not be able to get financing because I own it 100%. So now we have to own it together and then we 500 02:19:15.760 --> 02:19:30.479 can go get our financing >> and and that's fine. We understand that. >> And we don't want to step in the way. We just have a concern with our town council with the specific words >> about being too broad. goes down to if 501 02:19:30.479 --> 02:19:50.080 you leave the LLC that triggers. >> Yes. If we leave the LLC, but >> like I'm on an indentured like forever, right? >> No, no, no. You're talking about right now as you move as you move through this 502 02:19:50.080 --> 02:20:06.240 process the way to quicken it so you don't have to come keep coming. As long as it's not a it doesn't constitute a sale and you leaving it, we you should have no problem. >> Perfect. >> We want you to >> and then we'll just come to you if that's the case. We would come to you and explain it to you. 503 02:20:06.240 --> 02:20:22.240 >> Yeah. We want you to designate a future senior housing unit for yourself so you can you know check out we got the boss has got to check out and I got to ask my wife. She >> so green light. >> All we're saying we're talking about 504 02:20:22.240 --> 02:20:40.000 some words now. We understand the concept. It didn't I think at the beginning of the meeting and right so >> thank you gentlemen. >> Does that take care of the point that the town council raised? >> It's all going to get result. >> So now >> can we leave? 505 02:20:40.000 --> 02:20:57.760 >> Thank you. >> Leave by we have to continue hearing. >> We have we already continue. Not a guarantee. >> Okay. Can I uh hear a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? 506 02:20:57.760 --> 02:21:01.080 >> I I