All right. Good evening, Littleton. It's October 20th at 6:30 p.m. Welcome to the select board meeting. We will get started with the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Chuck said he's 5 minutes out. >> Uh we have a fairly um full agenda this evening. We'll start with um the mail. We'll move
on to department board updates and uh that will include the fire department, the school department, and parks and wreck. We have a public hearing scheduled for 7:00 for um an alteration for a wine and malt liquor license. 7:15
we'll move on to public input and members updates. 7:30 we have appointments for the clean lake committee. 7:35 select board discussion will include policy review of use of the common
town email addresses for the planning board, the Long Lake Dock discussion. Uh we'll be voting to assign articles for the town meeting and discussing a 40B application for Habitat for Humanity. We'll move on to the town administrator update minutes and we will adjourn
promptly at 8:55 at the latest. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Um, current vacancies on the on the town boards, we've got that are appointed uh through the select boards. Uh, Agricultural
Commission, Clean Lakes Committee, Committee for the Exploration of Real Estate Tax Relief for Seniors, Economic Development Committee, Master Plan Implementation Committee, Permanent Municipal Building Committee, Personnel Advisory Committee, Sustainability
Committee, Zoning Board of Appeals, Appointments by Littleton Electric Light and Water Department. They have an opening on their finance committee. And we also have sign up to receive public notifications for the town of Littleton, community impacts, public
safety activity, town meeting changes, transportation issues, public health concerns, town events. You can scan the QR code on the screen or register at www.ittletonmma.org/subscribe. Stay informed. Select board office hours, Wednesday,
October 22nd from 4 to 6 with Mr. Rambaka. Friday, October 24th from 10 to 12. Mr. Wilson. Tuesday, November 4th from 12:30 to 2:15. Uh, Chairwoman Morrison.
Friday, December 5th, 12:30 to 2:30. Again, Chairwoman Morrison. Uh, okay. DPW seeking snowplow contractors for the 25 26 winter season. packets available at the DPW office at
39 Air Road on the on the DPW website or call 978-540-2670 for for information. Rates begin at $100 an hour and up to $153 an hour depending on the equipment. Incentive sign up bonus of $1,000.
And we have a gift acceptance form uh from Liz Triniac. Uh the uh the the name of the donor would like to remain anonymous. It's $1,000 for the outreach program. And um that's it. Thank you
very much for your for your uh donation. And I should have I I apologize, Madam Chair, chairwoman, members of the select board, uh this great guy on my left hand side is the town's uh new assistant town
administrator, uh Tony Souza. And uh we are there is no one more excited here to have him here than me. And uh it's uh this is this is fantastic. So, uh, please, uh, anyone, uh, out there who
is, uh, in town hall wants to drop by and say hello, please, please say hello. And, uh, and that's it, Madam Chairwoman. >> All right. Welcome, Tony. >> Thank you. >> Thrilled you're here. >> Thank you. >> Uh, we'll move on to uh, department and
board updates. We'll start with the fire department. >> Troublemakers, >> also known as the troublemakers. Yes. Thank you. No problem. >> Um, as you know through uh through the
memo that I had sent to you on July 1st, we had an opening in our fire prevention uh position for the department. This brings the fifth change in our fire prevention position in 5 years. um due to this vacancy when it occurred,
we looked at the position and um really studied what the appropriate uh compensation was for the appropriate job description uh and moved to make a captain of fire prevention after looking at some of our comparative communities
um and again reworking what the um job description said. Through this process, we were in contact uh certainly with the union to ensure that we had no conflicts there. We worked with the treasurer's office to make sure that the money was there. However, one thing that we
discovered after we had made the appointment was that there was some conflicting language that existed within Mass General Law. Um I know that that could be surprising that there is conflicting language within law. Um, so
after we had made the appointment of Mike Delasio to fire prevention, we said, "Hey, you know what? We should probably make sure that the board also approves this because again, it's a little bit hazy as to whether it falls under the purview of what I can do
or whether we move it to the board. Looking at it, if we both approve it, then it checks all the boxes regardless of how you read the law." Um, so with that, um, I'll answer any questions
that anybody may have about the position. >> No, I'll just say that I think this is a great great um idea and um, I met Mike briefly at the um, employee party, Halloween party, and um, he's
enthusiastic and I'm it's great. It's I think it's a great idea. >> That's a great guy. >> Yeah. Are there are there significant changes to the position other than salary that might make this le more attractive to someone and let have have there there and have there be less turnover?
>> Yeah, so it does I'm actually I'm happy you asked that question. That's a great question. So we did uh look at the position and and part of what I have been working on is always having a succession plan for the department making sure that we're creating avenues for uh success for each of our
employees. Um so this gives yet another avenue of success. It gives us a little bit more backing um with a few administrative functions simultaneously um correcting um the the pay uh inequity that existed within fire prevention. So
we're we were able to kind of deal with a couple different u things within the fire department. Um, no. I, you know, I looked at it from just the, uh, compensation, the HR point of view, and I know, um, this wasn't one that had to come
before the personal advisory committee because it's what is it? Chapter 48, section 42 gives you the authority. So, um, >> I I think it's, uh, the part that got a little confusing was it's a captain position. So, which on tier three, I
think, that we're >> correct. Yeah. So, um, that change alone made it a little bit more muddied than normal. So, I think this is a great idea having it just in case two years down the road for, you know, someone says this didn't pass muster with the the
law. But that, you know, that chapter does state that the chief can hire and manage his workforce and your your people how how you see fit. And it is not a new position. The position is already created. The captain rank was already created. So thank you for coming
in front of us though because it's a >> whereas we made it a captain and fire prevention that's where captain existed fire prevention existed they didn't exist intertwined and that's where the confusion really came in >> so thank you great and I I as well u
like captain Delasio he's done a lot for the community and he continues to serve and this is great great for him so >> yeah you just you just mentioned the whole uh where the confusion lied that's where I had some confusion, but um I to echo what my colleagues have said,
appreciate you coming before us and you just showing us that respect to come forward and make sure that it's not muddy. Um and I echo what everybody says about Mike to us around the other day and just he's a good guy. He's always getting a smile on his face and um he's from a community
interaction standpoint, he's he's a he's a he's a testament to your department. So, appreciate you coming before us and look forward to seeing >> how it impacts your department. >> Thank you. >> I think it's a great hire. I just question what what uh all the other
things that Mike was doing before. So, he couldn't continue or >> Yeah. So, uh where he can um but he's also working with a few younger firefighters to try and get them uh interested in some of the other activities that that he was doing. So, hopefully we're going to create a lot of
different opportunities for folks. I think it's a great hire and it's great to promote from within. So >> child safety seats, I mean he was the big champion of that. So we know that those are >> he is on a regional scale. It's it goes far beyond Littleton which I think a lot of people don't know. >> So we can't call him car seat Mike now
anymore. >> You can still go with that. >> All right. >> You ready for me? >> You guys ready? >> Good. All right. I'll move that the select board vote to approve the compensation of the captain of fire prevention. >> Second.
>> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I I >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thanks, Chief. >> School department exemptions for Ted Ducet and Lisa Montgomery. There was madam chair in the uh members
of the select board there was a typo in the uh um in the agenda whereas this says 20D it should be 20B all of them should be 20B. >> Okay. >> Okay. And uh moving forward uh um as
requested and this is a uh a housekeeping thing that you're all familiar with with the exemption of of the of these employees. Uh, but we do have Alicia here if you if there's any any particular questions or uh that you may have uh regarding that.
>> Can we blame Tony for that? >> Can we Oh, that's coming. >> Um, >> I had no questions at all. Made sense to me. >> I I guess my questions we've never said no to these and I'm trying to find out what is that criteria where you would
you would flag one of these and say this one could be tricky. What does that scenario look like? Well, there could be some personnel related issues uh uh whether it be disciplinary or something like that. Uh uh some concerns of uh uh
the work life balance or the uh the priority scale. So yeah, >> Alicia, did you have input from parks and recck? >> Yeah, um so the doc the documents themselves, the 20 exemption has a list of requirements. >> Um so I know from my personal
experience, I'm not going to turn them in unless the people meet those requirements. Um so one of them is that they have to work under 500 hours in a year. Um any work that they do for um I'll say for our department let's say
you know we're doing one for Gwen currently she's working in Tiger's Den. Um so any work that she does for us will have no crossover whatsoever. Um I'm not going to ask her to do stuff on school time and school will not ask her to do
stuff on our time. So they're very separate things. >> So I guess our question is is this one of those things that we could pass on to the town administrator eventually to where these are almost these seem like they're screened by the department head
and then they're again screened by >> they're definitely pro form at this point. >> So if if it's allowed maybe it's something we look at in the future to keep it and you just inform us that we did it. I don't know. That's I'm a little confused why Ted needs one because he's working for the school
department as a soccer coach and now he's going to work for the school department as a referee >> because they're two separate positions >> but they're in within the same department. That's why >> confusion I >> I thought we needed them when they were
outside of your >> I mean if someone works for the high school and the middle school we don't >> but they're two different um >> what are they called accounting >> line numbers pay yeah >> I believe I mean that's
>> good point though I guess >> right it's the first one it usually it's interdep departmental two different departments this one's the same department but >> just like with uh the chief though. I'd rather see it. >> Yeah. No worries. >> You know, make sure that it's signed off on than >> agree.
>> Assume a gray area is in our favor. >> Good. Good. >> All right. Right. Move that the select board vote to acknowledge a disclosure by a municipal employee of financial interest in a municipal contract and approve the exemptions for Ted Ducet and
Lisa Montgomery as municipal employees in accordance with master law chapter 268A section 20 Bravo. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I. >> Great. Thank you.
>> Excellent. Next we have a um exemption for Levvenia Garcia with the school department. >> Yes. Uh same >> same thing. >> Yes. All all all of the exemptions the three separate exemptions before you are
the same thing. >> Okay. Does anybody have any questions about Miss Garcia? Okay. >> Let's go ahead. >> All right. Move that the select board vote to acknowledge a disclosure by a municipal employee of financial interest in a municipal contract and approve the exemption Levvenia Garcia as a municipal
employee in accordance with master law chapter 268A section 20 Bravo. >> Second >> moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I. >> Any questions from for anyone on uh Gwen Spedapino? >> Nope.
>> Okay, >> moving on. Move that the select board vote to acknowledge a disclosure by a municipal employee by of financial interest in a municipal contract and approved the exemption for Gwen Spataphino as a municipal employee in
accordance with master law chapter 268 alpha section 20 Bravo. >> Second moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I a little early for the public hearing. >> Wow. Let's jump around. Do uh yeah, let's do
some updates. >> Members updates. >> Yeah. >> Anybody want to volunteer to go first or do I have to >> I can kick it. >> All right. Go for it, Gary. >> Um let's see. LCTV. So, >> thank you.
Um just want to let you know that um as a member of the uh LCTV steering committee um and on behalf of the director Mark Corey, we there's he put a lot of work into creating a friends of Littleton
Community Television. So those of you out there that are looking for a um place to we we've pretty much got it staffed. We have the board set up and it is now ready to take donations. Um, as
you know the cable uh usage is down to about 47% of paying customers in the town actually actively paying to use cable and that number is going in the wrong direction as you know as community with all the streaming and different services. Um, so I think the end result
here and not that this is going to happen but we want to keep cable free for Littleton. um you know, community television um and and among among other things with with things becoming more expensive um we know the benefit side becoming more expensive. So any way that
we can support uh LCTV just like you do with friends of the library and friends of veterans and friends of the COA um this is another one of those things that um could benefit greatly from your support. So, just wanted to let you know that that was up and running. Um, and
we'll be So, keep your eyes out if you're looking to donate to a good cause. Um, let's see. Reminder, town meeting. I know we'll probably all say something to it. Town meeting on the 28th, next Tuesday. Please, please come out and
vote. And, uh, ballot November 1st on that Saturday. Um, use of Indian Hill. I had already talked to to Jim about. We're going to be going through some work on the use of the stage and that that area working with uh
gym park and wreck and schools to be able to make it available uh for the public to use in some capacity for different types of events. So uh that'll be coming forward after town meeting. Um let's see. Thank congratulations Captain
Delasio. Welcome Tony as well. um the point cameras. Jim, I I know we talked offline, but if you could kind of give an update on that. I know. >> Sure. I had uh reached out to uh the developer, the the owner of the point uh especially with the with the most
disturbing recent occurrence that that happened there to a to a a teenager that uh installation of the cameras, never mind about the the fires that that happened at the uh at the charging stations for the for the Teslas. Uh but
um so he has absolutely agreed to there will be uh there'll be cameras uh and now and I've put he and chief pennard together to work out the logistics in regards to the monitoring. Uh one thing that developers say is you we don't have
the capacity or of of the monitoring. So and the chief absolutely stepped right up and said we're happy to monitor it not a problem. >> And uh so that's how we're uh we're proceeding with that. Okay. Great. >> Sam Park was uh was absolutely he was
appalled at unfortunately the uh the event and is is looking to support it. >> Thanks. Um there are we we've the personal advisory committee members in the HR office and Jim um are in
receipt of the um first I guess you would call it draft of the compensation and pension uh plan. the brief. Uh we've been meeting, we met in groups to kind of discuss it and some of the issues and things we're going to go back to the contract with just to help uh work
through some of those things. And then as we're going to meet offline to decide how much of it um we're going to use before we present it to the select board and how much give recommend we want to get our recommendations together for the select board so we can uh see where we want to go for for our Maytown meeting
and and what that's going to look like and what most importantly um make sure that our our all the employees being treated equitably but um also to make sure that the town's on good footing financially to be able to support any type of changes to the compensation.
Um the last thing I put on here and it's been a while obviously I was out last meeting uh just the First Baptist Church, you know, I know I believe there's a meeting coming up is that >> next week. >> Next week. Um, so we'll be meeting with leaders of the First Baptist Church. Uh, for those that don't know that, uh, the
church, um, we're going to be looking for possibly community forms, some ideas of what what we would like to see done with the church. You know, whether the town can get involved in ownership of that church. that's not really on the table right now, but it's something that
uh we want to make sure we get out to the community and see what, you know, what we're thinking about for such a a building that's iconic in the center of Littleton. So, um where that where that goes, you know, potentially with a nonprofit or or something else, somebody
else taking over that church, um that's kind of the the goal was be to try to keep it um as iconic as possible, as you know, and not potentially having it end up as a parking lot, for instance. and things like that. We need to see if there's protections that we can put into place. So, we're continuing to meet with
church leaders and uh there'll be more to come on that. So, I know that's a lot, but I've been out a while. So, >> that's good. Thank you. >> Who's next? >> I'll go. Um so, um I attended the charter committee uh
forum last week. It was very well attended. Uh there were a lot of questions and feedback from the audience. there was talk about what uh um like how to do town meetings going forward um and um also general feedback
on how boards should be structured in the reporting. So it I thought it was a good forum and well attended. So thank you for everyone that came out and I think there'll be another one sometime in the spring most likely. Um but it sounds like they made good progress and got a lot of good feedback. I went to
the legislative breakfast uh that was act in Chumsford. It was actually held at the Chumsford Performing Arts Center, which is the old town hall. Um so um which kind of when you walk in looks like a Baptist church. So um um there was a lot of information coming from
that. Uh they're still working to finalize the Municipal Empowerment Act, which will allow remote meetings to be enshrined forever. Right now they're keep renewing whether you can do remote or hybrid meetings. Um there was talk of
the state setting up a pilot to allow remote town meetings. So I don't know if we want to try and get in on that pilot or eligible or not. Um um there was a lot of talk about how schools will be funded and realuating.
They upped the minimum reimbursement to $150 per student. Um, and they pointed out that that's like less than one that's about 1% of the cost of educating kids around here. Um, the other big one
that came up is the cannabis control commission is uh finalizing potentially fairly soon um regulations around allowing public cannabis use. Um, communities will have to opt in to that.
And then there's actually three types of use. I don't remember what they there's like use onsite at the seller where they could have and then there's like off-site events and there's one other one. Um they will need an HCA um with
the with a community, but there's a lot of things to be really concerned about with what they said so far. Like um it didn't sound like it was as baked as like one day liquor licenses for events. So, uh, stay tuned and pay close
attention because we might want to start weighing in on some of those things. >> Um, finally, uh, Andy Curran and I are, uh, going around and marking more of the town, uh, monuments. We're going to do some We're going to do all the ones with Boxboro and some of the ones with, uh,
Westford, uh, this week. >> You mean the boundaries? >> The boundaries. Yeah. >> So, >> how many have you found? >> Uh, so Boxboro, I think we found seven of the eight. Uh we were looking we spent a long time looking for the markers that are on Lake Manowani and
the mark the Westford Groten but it turns out that we believe those are underwater. So that's why we could not find them. So >> a scuba mark. >> Yeah. Um it requires special paint. So >> interesting. Um I my only update is that
I attended the um orchard open house um which is now called the Hopewell Native Tree Farm. Um still it will always be the Nag orchard of course but it was very well attended. I think when I was there there were over 50 people there. Uh Jamie Eldridge showed up. They had
music, they had DJ, there was food and drink. It was um and all the demonstrations of all the work that John is doing with the farm with the orchard and uh the place looks really good. He's cleaned it up a lot. >> It's pretty impressive. >> It's um and I just was struck again by
his vision and the the sort of uh care he's taken with that place. So, I feel lucky that we have him and I want to encourage anybody. He he talked a lot about education. He want he really wants to spend a lot of time um doing helping people to figure out how they can help
you know plant trees and assist the environment. So it's all good. >> Great. >> And medicinal cacao is delicious. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Just go. I thought you looked healthier.
>> All right, Chuck. >> Uh yes. Thank you. Um so just to piggyback on the town meeting next week, there is one more Shaolane school community forum tomorrow evening at 6:30 at uh at the school at Shaolane school. Um and there is um for those that are
concerned be sitting at uh at town meeting those those resources are available. Um there is a sign up um online and I it's a huge link but if you take a land school there's an opportunity for you to
sign up online. Um, tomorrow night I think we all got invited to Littleton 10 Business Association as a uh um a gathering. The folks at Derigible have joined the LBA. So, they're kind of doing a kickoff October Fest kind of thing. So, I do plan on attending that
and u you know interacting with the the business owners that are in the LBA. Um, last Thursday I did attend at Littleton High School a lip-sync fundraiser uh competition and the benefits went to the model UN and um the drama club. So, um
they they split the proceeds and it was actually a really fun event. The kids the kids did a great job. It's >> I'm always singing. >> I did Milly Vanilly. Nobody Nobody got it. >> I always thought he was a Snoop Dog person. I signed us up next year for Jake and
Elwood Blues. >> Um, let's see. Uh, just just um relative to the we haven't really made any kind of an update on the um tax relief for seniors. Uh I did speak to a couple of
seniors over the weekend and actually ended up spoke speaking with the mother yesterday just to get her perspective as a you know as a senior in another community and um what we're doing seems to be better than what her community is doing. Not that it's pretty I want to
raise that bar. So um and I have reached out to a couple of other colleagues that we've met through the MMAs and stuff like that just to say for instance Barable is one that that um is pretty active. Um, so I do hope to have more updates on that and we got to get the band back together again and um, keep
that ball moving. >> Great. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Um, okay. So, you already mentioned the um, final tour for Shaker Lane tomorrow at 6:30. Um, for my colleagues, our goals update um, draft was distributed
and I'm like to post those on Friday. Okay. So, if you have feedback, um please let me know prior to that and um if need be, I'll I'll send out another um draft, but otherwise um they're getting they're getting posted on
Friday. Trunk or treat is coming up Saturday from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the alumni parking lot. So, it's always really well attended. Um bring uh bring yourself, bring some friends. Um it's always a
great event. Uh let's see. We've got um oh I did a a podcast with our moderator um about how uh how to do um how to do town meeting, how to attend town meeting and uh he of course had um good insights
and it was a good discussion. I also went to the charter committee forum on October 14th. Um I would encourage anybody who's even a little bit interested in understanding how everything works um in terms of Littleton and government
to um to check it out. They not only did they um talk about where they want to go, but they also talked about where we are and a lot of people, you know, were asking clarifying questions that were really helpful. Um, so until we have that citizens academy uh launched in the
meantime, that would be a great um crash course for anybody who's interested in understanding um town government. Uh let's see. I went to the Shaker Lane building committee meeting on the 15th. Um I just can't say enough about how hard everybody on that committee is
working. Um and it's much appreciated. Want to congratulate the Littleton Tigers. They won their uh homecoming game on Friday night. So, that was wonderful. And uh I know the high school um kids had a great time at homecoming dance the next night.
Uh let's see. There was a Shaker Lane building committee outreach on Saturday. I was not able to attend that one. >> Yeah. But um so I don't know how I didn't get an update on uh attendance for that. Um, and then I was told, um,
sort of through the grapevine or or you know that I've heard that there are a couple of our committees that have records um, stored in people's homes. So, I think we probably need to start identifying some storage space here in
town hall >> so that we don't, you know, lose everything if uh, if somebody decides to leave. Littleton and take their take their records with them. We'd be losing a lot of really important
information. So, um I'd like I'm going to start working on um trying to get all those records moved here somewhere here um in town hall. >> That's something that become a bigger problem as we so many of our boards still and committees are almost
exclusively virtual. Yeah. >> Seems is more >> Yeah. Then then it they're even less likely to have records here for Exactly. I mean since since that most most everything that goes back and forth is digital then alone whether it be minutes or agendas. >> Yeah.
>> So uh and that's all I have. >> Okay. 704 we can kick off the public hearing. >> Am I reading this notice? >> Yeah. Can you uh open up the hearing? If you have it on
>> this whole thing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let's see. This is the reference public hearing. Alteration of license premises Energy North Incorporated, 256 Air Road, Littleton, Mass. The Littleton Select
Board will conduct a public hearing on Monday, October 20th, 2025 at 7 p.m. Littleton Town Offices, Room 103, 37 Shadic Street, Littleton, Mass. to act on the request to uh for approval of an
alteration of a licensed on licensed premises under Massal Law, chapter 138, section 15, submitted by Charble Dogger, manager, Energy North, Incorporated, 256 Air Road,
Littleton, Mass. Um, we have the days and not we need to get into that. Probably not. I think we're good. >> Get the meat. >> So, the hearing is open. >> All right.
>> Uh, thank you. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the select board, uh, town administrator, assistant town administrator. My name is Harley Racer. I'm an attorney at Rich May. I represent Energy North Incorporated. Um and we are here tonight to request uh this from the select board as the local licensing body
um of the liquor license uh an approval for an alteration of a license premise. Um we were here before this body in um March before this board in March of 2025 to obtain approval uh for the license of off- premises alcohol sales of um wine
and malt liquor. Um we and we obtained that application. We're now seeking approval to alter 256 Air Road by um ultimately uh demolishing the current structure and rebuilding a new facility
that will be uh 6,300 square ft singlestory um convenience store with two quick service restaurants uh and a built-in cooler and beer cave. Uh so we request the uh approval of these alterations to maintain our license to
um sell the off-site uh alcohol in the same way that we do now for the continuation and duration of the demolition and the rebuild and and still have the license be valid when we get to the other side of that. Um I'm happy to answer any questions that the board may
have. Uh we did submit our application and um I believe everything that was requested of of the board I have really two simple questions. Um I I know I think it's a good thing. It's it looks like the plan is going to be um
well a much nicer visual. Uh anyway, but the gas station is remaining a guest. It was correct. Pumping gas. And do you own the parking across the street as well? Is that >> I >> used to be parking across the street. I don't know. >> Trucks used to park in there and things
like that. >> We own house, but >> not the parking that's across. >> Okay. Cuz I was going to I was just thinking if that was the case, then we we would need to be looking probably at more crosswalk type stuff there. But >> yeah. No, my understanding is it's all on that side of the of the road.
>> Okay. Um, and we are in the process of getting DOT approvals to move forward and get the permits we need to start the demolition and you know and then get the building permit >> there. There is when when Willow Street,
Bruce Street, and um, Air Road were all reconfigured. There is a light that heads towards you. So, I'm sure the DOT is going to say, "Make sure that your egress going to the right is going to be using that light." >> It's a five-headed light.
>> If they're not, I'm sure that our our PD is working. >> Yeah. My understanding is that, and I' I've not been in touch with DOT, but my understanding is that the DOT process still has a few months to go before we get that finalized and approved. >> Is the building the plans for the
building basically what was in front of the planning board six months ago? Uh it is and if you look there's a floor plan in the application um that's a concept plan. Uh this isn't the architectural renderings and those will be changed and will be before whatever permitting body
is required by the time we get the building permit and site plan approval if necessary any of the permits. Uh but it is substantively the same as what we were presenting then. >> And what's the hope on the schedule? Um the hope on the schedule is I I've been
told seven months for DOT approval. Um and so demolition will start sometime next year and the construction will take six to seven months. >> Don't hold me to that, but that's the that's the timeline that we are working on. >> So this time next year we can attend your grand opening. Okay.
>> Okay. >> Hopefully that would be >> great. >> Great if we're there. Yeah. So, attorney May, the um just the way you worded selling the license is there right now and being
the ability to sell during the demolition. That's Did I misunderstand that? >> Yeah, we're not we're not looking to sell during the demolition. It's to it's so that our license remains valid once we rebuild. We still have it >> so it doesn't lapse. >> So, it doesn't lapse. Correct. >> Wouldn't be an abandonment. It's an
improvement. It wouldn't be an abandonment, >> but it's exactly the same license in every other respect. >> Correct. Got it. Okay. Same hours, same >> you're gonna have like plastic walls up and stuff like that while you're building one part of it on the roadside stand. >> I'm sure the police department would say >> I was thinking one of those like
fireworks tents, you know. >> It's a bunch of cool >> spirit but with beer. >> Perfect. >> Different type of spirit. >> Okay. >> Nothing for me either. >> All right. So, I have an overall consensus of positivity. Seems like All right. We'll read that side.
>> Move that the select >> we have to we have to ask. Sorry. We do. Correct. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hold the motion, please. >> Any public input? >> Hearing none. We'll continue. >> Move to close the public hearing. >> Second.
>> By Gary. Right. Seconded by Matthew Chuck. >> Chuck's eye. >> Gary. >> Gary's eye. >> Matthews. Yes. >> Mark's yes. >> Karen's yes. >> Okay. Okay. On with the motion. Move that the select board vote to approve the application for an alteration of premises wine and malt off- premises
license under master chapter 138 section 15 for Energy North Inc. 256 Air Road for the hours of Monday through Friday, excuse me, Monday through Saturday 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Alcohol sales 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and Sunday 5:00 a.m.
to 11:00 p.m. Alcohol sales 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. >> Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. >> Um, let me continue. Issuance of license is subject to ABCC approval of alternate altercation of premises. >> Second as amended.
>> Yes, thank you. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. Uh, do we need to roll call this one? All right, Chuck. >> Chuck. Yes. >> Gary. >> Yes. >> Matthew. >> Marks. Yes. >> Karen's yes. >> All right. >> Thank you, guys. Good luck. Good luck in the process. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Looking forward to seeing it. >> Thank you for your investment. Yeah. >> All right, we've got our members updates completed. Um public input, >> Mr. Public >> Rob Brown's 25 June B have a few try to
be brief. Um Vera Sporter approached uh Littleton Conservation Trust expressing uh displaying a number of photos and um concern with regard to trees that she views is pretty significant. And I know I've heard you folks speak about some
trees at 550 King Street. So I've reached out to Steve Whitten tend to get the Sha Tree Committee. Matt Cahill, I'm charged with trying to bring together a group of folks. So should you have trees? should you know of people that have interest in these you know
important trees throughout the I've talked to John Bransfield as well uh trying to get a group together to consider I don't know I want to say an inventory of them that could be pretty extensive and expensive but to get trees
of note so you folks have numerous contacts I encourage you to engage with Steve Whitner or Matt or myself because I think we're going to you know take this forward in some some way somehow Um, also I think you're going to receive several invitations if you haven't already for a dark skies presentation uh
guy from MIT. It'll be November 5th at the center at Shadic Street 78:30. U the intention is that we're going to be I've seen the presentation about two years ago. It's it's counterintuitive. I think we're all trained to believe that uh
significant light enhances safety and enhances visibility and that is he'll go through how your rods in your eyes. That's just not uh he's from Peral. They actually led a successful campaign to basically dim the lights with uh police
safety perspectives on board saying yes save money through less utilization etc. Littleton light will be there as well. So, just want to give you a heads up. Should you be able to be a be able to make that one, >> excuse me, with a date? Yeah. >> On November 5th, November 5th, 7 to 8:30
at the center on Shadic Street. Correct. >> Thank you. Um the um just because you mentioned the senior deferral. I think it's a great program. Appreciate the efforts that are underway. Took the opportunity of seeing uh Senator Eldridge at the um orchard
the other day. There's a a wrinkle in it and I encourage you folks as you attending the legislative breakfast, the wrinkle in for my opinion, you folks are great. You've got this program that I think we should take the opportunity at town leading to take a moment to to
probe bumping it up from the $55,000 threshold to $72,000 threshold. That's great. And you only charge a 1% interest rate. So for seniors are really challenged, this can be a great thing to defer $1 to every dollar of their property taxes and it's only a 1%
interest rate until you die and then it cranks up immediately to 16%. And then there's ownorous language saying six months after death, you can start to take actions with regard to a house in play. And those, you know, Senator
Elders seem to really be responsive with regard to Yeah, that doesn't sound you know, like we want to do it. So I, you know, want to bring that to your attention because you mentioned it. Last thing for me is, um, with town meeting, um, coming up, uh, kudos. I know a
number of you have put in a lot of time to get it done. I know you received assistance from school superintendent clenchy. Last time I heard I was there on Saturday. Um as of Saturday afternoon, there were 50 children registered for the child care that
night. I think that really says something with regard to you. You put it together very very quickly. It seems like it's really being responded to very very well. So, uh, between Mark mentioning this potential pilot program
of remote, my understanding is it's been since 2014 that we had a review of town meeting from a standpoint of a voter involvement. So, let me make this disclaimer. I am not speaking as a
member of the charter review committee. I'm speaking solely as a resident, a resident who has done extensive canvasing um in the last month and the um feedback is I'm not saying it's
majority, far from it, but it's a vocal minority who yes, I'm voting for the Shaker Lane um for the November 1st ballot and no, I am not attending town meeting. And then it's a pretty good
problematic list of reasons why. And there there's no conversation that I can do other than, you know, if we were to change it somehow so you can get it out faster, would you attend? Yep. If you can get in faster, contact me. But
otherwise, I'm not coming. Um, so I would encourage you to one do a review of this upcoming meeting after the fact with regard to what worked well, what different. It seems to me like we put a lot of energy into getting people. I think they're being responsive. I love
the child care and it might be time to resurrect you folks to resurrect a specific group to consider possible um voter input with regard to potentially tweaking aspects of town meeting or the town meeting report or things that
essentially you did in 2014 to try to make it better. I think the world has changed dramatically. I think COVID remote all those sorts of things. I think it's maybe time to review it again much like you came to the conclusion it was time to review town government every
8 to 10 years with charter etc. So thank you. >> At the um charter committee forum there was a lot of discussion from the audience about how to improve town meeting >> and what they wished >> to do. We're so bound by mass general law and a lot of it but um time is one
of the things we do have control over. >> Yeah. And that's I know I you probably had discussion before at 6 PM maybe that's a survey type question we put out to people who lose by making it six where people now can't get there >> from work from work or
>> you know so that's but it's worth a uh >> yeah ideal start >> that's just that comes up yeah >> because an hour is a lot when especially if we're frontloading these like things like a school some of the big projects if we're frontloading it at article one or too.
You know, that's might be out of there by 8. That's a big difference for people that have kids at school on a Tuesday night. So, >> okay. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> Anybody else from public input? >> I'm just going to jump on the back of the family. >> Sure. Yeah.
>> Just um certainly want to try to after every town meeting we have like a >> a murder board as pardon me. >> Postmort. >> Yeah. We call them autopsies. >> Um exactly. just to see, you know, where where we could have done things differently, that kind of thing. And I think that's important that we continue
to do that. I have noticed that the time that I've been on the board that uh many of the people that are the loudest um at Facebook and Facebook more than anything, they don't come to our meetings either. Um don't show up to town meeting. They have every reason as to how we should do it differently, but they don't show up at town meeting. And
some of them aren't even registered to vote. So, I I just want to put that out there. >> Fair enough. Thank you. >> Do the best for the most. Moving along uh to appointments. Appoint Gerald Cavalo to the Clean Lakes
Committee as the Mill Pond alternate. >> Jerry, did you want to say something? >> Yeah, I should probably bring something up. >> Yeah. >> So, on the application, I put down four things that I intended to do if I was appointed to those. >> And uh so,
>> some of them might be a little controversial. I don't know if you looked at them. Yep. >> But um the other one is that it says according to the rules on the clean lake committee that the alternate which is the only position is currently open has
to be nominated by the Mil Pond Association. I'm not aware that there is such an organization. I have to call into John Folsson and and Wanzer haven't gotten back to me yet on it. But um there is one difference that may make that not necessary and that is
that Mil Pond unlike all the other lakes it is an impoundment and so it's not a great pond in in terms of uh if you look at all the other lakes in town it doesn't show the uh land subdivisions but under Mil pond it shows who owns the land and this is a town of Littleton
owns about 60% of the land conservation trust owns about 20 and then some overlap from the neighbors. So just uh I brought this up with the town clerk today and she thought I should come and talk to you guys about it that if you appointed me I think uh you I
because I'm a resident of Littleton I do have an interest in in in the lake because I am paying taxes and the land belong belongs to the town under the empoundment. So therefore I think uh >> I think I should be appointed.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. Logic pulls for me. Does anybody have any questions? >> Yeah. If we get slapped on the wrist, we'll beg forgiveness. >> Yeah, exactly. >> You're here. >> Is there anyone else who represents Mil Pond on the Clean Legs Committee?
>> Yeah, I did call him. I I know him pretty well, but he didn't get back to me yet. >> I I suspect he is the committee that would that would that would nominate. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks so much for uh stepping up, Jerry.
>> Let's go ahead. Okay. Move that select board vote to appoint Gerald Kavalo to the Clean Lakes Committee as the Mil Pond alternate for a term expiring June 30th, 2027. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I.
>> Thanks. >> Thanks very much. >> Go see Diane. >> Thank you. >> All right. Moving on to discussions. uh policy review of use of Littleton Common. >> Mark, take it away.
>> So, yeah. So, we've been kicking this around for a few meetings now. I started a draft um that um due to my um um schedule, I didn't get this out in time to be in the packet, but everyone has a
copy of uh um what the old policy was and some changes I was proposing. Um this is going to take several meetings to get through. Town council hasn't looked at this. we need to actually um
go through the normal, you know, um introduce and um approve it separate meetings. But um if people take a look and give me their comments back um I'll take those and do an updated draft and send it off to
count town council um so that we can continue this process. It's it's a incredibly difficult policy to write because you want to protect the town without infringing on people's right to
gather. So, um it's uh it's yeah, it's just difficult to find that balance. So, >> um I I appreciate your approach of like only require a permit under certain conditions. I think that's the right way
to go. Um, and I and I definitely support that. I would add try to make sure that all of the things that fire and police check now are are in the list of prohibited things like I
know that they said, you know, don't put any any stakes in the ground because they don't want irrigation pipes damaged. So I think that when you say, you know, the users agree not to obstruct fire lanes, ease of emergency, like let's let's have a list there of things you can't do. >> I I'll run this by
>> Yeah. >> Please and fire. >> That's the only But I think that's my only comment right now. Um I had some language suggestions that I I'll just send to you. But um I did think one thing we wanted to
consider is you know what is the result of a failure to comply with those conditions in the first section. Um >> yeah it's a good point. Town fgging. >> Yeah. You know I thought um for example a failure to clean up. It might be um
and all this has to go by town council of course, but a charge to the sponsoring organization or individuals for direct costs incurred. So if we have to clean things up and you know lug out a bunch of mattresses or something bizarre here, you know,
>> that uh we can we can uh try to recoup those those costs. Um, and I think another reasonable um consequence would be um and it would I would want it structured as a may, but just um holding
the right to um that this potentially would impact their ability to get a permit in the future. Um I think we should make the um list of permit
reasons. I would change I would just add that it's for unofficial events, right? So that we don't want to have to seek um permits for things that we're organizing ourselves as the town. Um
I think again I've got some language suggestions. I think an amplified sound system would be a reasonable addition. I would remove uh the number of people that are expected to attend. I think that's better addressed with um
a statement that if attendance is expected to exceed whatever number we think is reasonable and I'm sure the chiefs have thoughts on that as well. Um organizers are strongly encouraged to submit a permit application so that the town can provide guidance and assistance on logistics such as parking and traffic
control. Um I just don't I'm worried about having a number. Um because there's so many people and so many cases in which somebody will look at that and say, "Well, I don't know." >> Yeah. >> I don't know how many people are coming. >> Absolutely true. Yeah. >> Um and I'm worried that that's going to,
you know, chill um have a chilling effect on on public speech. So, I actually did some research on a little bit of research on this and I didn't spend a lot of time um but like to use the to have um a free
speech gathering on the National Mall if you have more than 25 people, you have to have a permit, right? So, so the idea that you have a number is not unprecedented by them. >> There's many communities in Massachusetts that have it, too. I have
not done other research on what other communities do. It's very Yeah, >> it's not a trivial thing. And I agree that it's hard to say, oh, you know, well, we're only expecting 24 people, so and then 26 show up and there's all those weird
border cases that we're always going to have. So >> I agree with Karen though on if you leave it without a number it gives some flexibility to you know what are the police if All right let's just talk about a we used a plant sale as an
example but someone selling things on the common in that regard where people are coming and going all all day long as opposed to an event where everybody shows up and everybody leaves. >> How many people is that? So we it gets a little crazy but um I think giving
flexibility to okay well what type of event is it does play a role in what we're expecting >> and resources >> for yeah for safety for a lot of other things but >> do we require police details >> that's the other piece at what point do you require a police detail is it
>> and you know what if it's a reactionary type police detail gets larger then we expect it then we have to >> call someone >> call someone in to do that but >> I just say that in terms of the National Mall um or any anywhere else, you know, it's it's helpful and it's instructive, but the way that that these laws are
viewed is to the specific circumstances of our town are common. Um and its historic use and its future use. Um so we just need to be careful that we can't we can't do a cut and paste or assume that because it was okay in one
circumstance, it would be okay in our circumstances. Um, okay. >> Yeah. I I I'm one of those that we'll go to the first amendment rights and work backwards from there, right? What everything that we do takes away
potentially from that. So, we want to keep in mind what are we doing it for? Safety is the number one concern here. >> Period. Right. >> Um, after that, it's uh what what what comes after safety?
>> Probably nothing. a damage to infrastructure, >> right? And the cost, is there going to be a cost to the rest of the community to support this event? Those type of things. But other than that, >> like for example, there were 300 people on the common, I think the estimate was on Saturday. Zero impact as far as I could tell and
on traffic or anything else. >> Yeah. >> Um so I I just don't know where we would figure out that number and how we could apply it. >> And do we stem this? I know somebody had mentioned last time we discussed this. Sure. We have in the common definitely
some type of policy like this just um limited what are we talking about other other town property as well has to have some type of a I mean this works well on the common because that's our common especially is the focal point of a
enormous amount of traffic and other things but >> with this I think we'll probably tail this up with some of the language that we create in here maybe we put it onto the back end of well this really could any town owned property we might want to
have this no X you can't have this yeah >> can't have that but >> so I wonder if this document should also help protect us from malicious people who want to you know skirt the law and like cause trouble and
then keep coming back and doing it over and over and over um maybe maybe that's better handled by the police um But if they have a policy they can point to saying, you know, if you are deliberately impeding traffic or if you
are not not that because that's already illegal, but if you are deliberately, you know, like provoking people or whatever on the common, you know, we have the right to ask you to leave and if you don't, then we're >> it's such a hard thing because everybody's feelings are different, right? What's provoking you might my tolerance might
>> No, I understand. I mean, I'm not going to I don't want to step on free speech. I'm just trying to think of maybe maybe we don't need to handle that in this policy. >> So, one of the reasons I was thinking of a number was not because of the 300 people or whatever. It was like there's a limited amount of parking at the
common and be and once you get outside of the number of designated parking spots then then we're going to get in someone's going to have to get involved and say where you are allowed to park on the outside of that. And it would be good to have if you are expecting that number of people then we can kind of
>> direct you >> direct that without putting it in a policy that you can park on you know Jennifer Street but not Goldmith Street and because once those things are in a policy they live forever and they're really hard to change. >> Yeah. >> I mean when we have an event on FA Park
we have do not park signs all the way up Foster. Right. So, >> that would that would be a concern. But I think um I'd like to reach out to I'm going to I have a couple communities that I I researched that actually have the number. >> I just want to know what was the was it arbitrary? Where why 25?
>> Yeah. >> You know, why 50? Why 100? I mean, just get an answer. Maybe there was some other something we're missing >> behind the number. >> That would be helpful. >> Oh, this is this is a great start though, Mark. I >> Thank you. >> Thanks.
If I I have a couple comments just to bring back on with Matthew with the stakes. I think that we can identify where sprinkling lines are and that kind of thing. I'd rather see at least cinder blocks or something because we've seen
it at election day. A wind comes along and those tents can cause damage especially if you're surrounded on on all three sides by roadways. Um, so I if people are putting up tents, I think we should have some sort of a >> must be safety structure.
>> You can't take it downation. >> So it has to be >> we know where the irrigation runs though. So that's I mean we could >> So if it if it can't be staked then it needs to be weighted. >> Yeah. Weighted down just
>> since >> it should be something from a from a safety perspect. So, since a structure requires a permit, would that go on the permit or would that go in the policy? >> Requires a permit, though. >> I would say it does. >> Yeah. >> Oh, seems like a structure. >> Take a look at what the gardeners
>> Yeah. I think I think if I think if they're going to put up a structure, they should have a permit. >> Okay. >> I mean, the way it's written right now is if tents or other structures. >> So, right now, it it definitely includes tents. >> Yeah. >> We're not talking log cab log cabins and stuff. >> No,
>> you never know. Um I'm sorry. >> The only the only um just just piggybacking on your um how do we go back at them if they you know if it was left a mess or whatever if we had to invest something in it to make it whole
again. Um you know anytime we stay in a hotel or we rent the car, you put down incidentals. So that they're running your credit card for whatever $75, $300, whatever the the number is for incidentals, which you get returned to you as soon as you check out of the hotel, say you return the vehicle and
it's in good it's in good condition. Um, we could potentially do something like that. I don't think the town really wants to get into the business of >> credit cards like that, right? >> Um, who's responsible? >> Maybe that's where the insurance comes in. >> Yes. Yes, I agree. But maybe we could
put some sort of ride around the I don't know. It's Um, the other thing that I would like to be mindful of is the veterans corner. We've invested a lot of resources and a lot of money in and making sure that the veterans corner is
solemn and is is looks good. And um I I would be in favor of um putting like a low almost looks like a row iron fence but a a low just to designate that that is different than the rest of the common.
It is it is kind of is our sacred ground if you will. Um, so that's something I would like to try to I don't think it's going to be going to be addressed in the policy, but I I I would like to say because there were people without malice, just people walking
through it just not knowing that it's there, you know, whereas if there is something that precludes you from walking through it, um, I think it would just I think it look nicer too, frankly, to designate our veterans corner. So that's the only the
only other point that I wanted to make. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Mark. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah. Thanks Mark. >> Thank you Mark. >> Review the request for the use of town email addresses for the planning board.
I've got some math in the packet. I recall. Well, in in here is uh it is a uh proposed use of uh it's not uh doesn't fully comply with uh the request from
the planning board, but it streamlines and it and it has everyone that would be consistent that uh boards and commissions and committees that have town staff, they it would be sent directly to the town staff as board
of at littletonmma ma.org and it goes to that individual planning board at Littleton, it would go to say Marin or or if she designates Cooper and then that would be distributed to the to the members on on the committee. Um uh
whether it be all of them or if it's it's to just to a specific member of the committee. uh and that and I know that it's been pointed out that the board of health they have individual ones but
there is there has been a lot of lack of attention uh to those email addresses whether it be through through training or um and uh uh and that was done originally that was put in place because
of Nishoba and there was no health director now we have a health director and which would be able to take that and eliminate those five and just have the one that would go that would go directly to Francis. And I know that the the
center not the center uh the charter review committee they all all have in hindsight that probably was not the best approach but there is a sunset to those email addresses individually. uh but you see in other areas within
uh within the government such as the sustainability committee then they don't have uh town staff that is not staffed by by town by any town employee. So it at at this point right now until such time as it would be staffed uh it goes
to the chairperson and then that chairperson can uh can can distribute. Uh so that is and there's there's a number of different reasons. the security reasons there is uh uh there's the maintenance the issues that is
pointed out from our IT from from it >> and of course there's the expense >> I mean everybody I >> I personally feel that all committee members on all boards should have a town email address >> that's my
>> completely the opposite I I it's ridiculous that we don't right it's >> have individual >> yes everyone should have their own individual address right there should also be a group address potentially >> right but um just to pick on the board
of health let's just say everything went to Francis and Francis is on vacation now the board of health doesn't get any email right um everything's now filtered through one individual how are you going to everyone needs their own address
either either through the town or you have to set up a personal you know >> forwarding >> forwarding so that >> you don't want to you don't want the your town business inter in your personal mailboxes right you just for
whole foyer and everything else right it's just too complicated we are effectively running a business with these employ these are effectively the equivalent of our employees and we should be giving them email addresses So you think like sustainability committee,
clean lakes committee, shade tree committee, I don't >> cemetery commission, all those folks, every single member, every single person on all those committee should have a >> I do >> a email address at 30 $32 a month. >> I don't first I think we should look at cheaper options because I don't think
$32 a month is a reasonable. >> A lot of these things are um >> and all the training that goes with it, >> right? And all the training um I you know I I did once again I I researched this a little bit and the
only communities that I saw where people had individual emails on those type of boards planning board specifically were the much larger communities. So Cambridge 121,000 people >> but those those are employees the school community >> to some Yeah. But I I just I mean I'm on
the other side of it I guess than Mark I I'm you have a planning board in this case a planning board email collective um that you can forward to your personal email address you know I have pl I have
five personal email addresses you know you're allowed that with Comcast whereas Comcast and you know one of them you can create town business Gary town business email and it it you We'll go into that if I need it. Um, so I don't I don't
think that's an excuse. Um, I think I I know what you're saying by it's the collective. If someone's monitoring it and only one person, stuff's going to go unanswered. Um, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying if you want it to go to the board members and they need to have a forwarding address where it
can go to. Um, the cost is is a part of this, but I think everybody should be monitoring that that group email. If you're on a board, you >> you can't that violates open meeting. >> What do you mean? >> If everyone
>> if you're respond if you're responding >> if everyone's reading that email address and then if everyone's reading that one email address and then can be responding to that email address, then you can be carrying on conversations on that one email address. But it's it's an open meeting. >> It's the same type of thing that we have
Jim. If we need to do polling through us individually, we individually respond to Jim with a with >> or we're aware enough to >> we don't get to debate each other on any we don't see it, but we're responding. >> But if everyone's monitoring if everyone's monitoring one email address,
then then it is an open meeting. >> Well, we're all monitoring Select Board at Littleton Master. >> No, Select Board is a group. Yeah. >> It's not an email address. If everyone but the from exterior from the exterior there's no difference >> there's a difference >> functionally no there isn't there it's
going to five individual email addresses >> right >> just like forwarding to five like like an email would four to five >> but it's much different than if we had one email address and then I can write a draft in that email and then you can go and read that draft right without ever being >> in the sent emails right you can see
what everybody else has said about something >> it's a much >> oh I thought we were just they were is forwarding. >> No, but if everyone's going and monitoring one email account. >> Yeah, but I'm sorry. I misunderstood. When I say monitoring, I thought you meant like the email comes into that
single email address and then is forwarded to five individuals. >> I think we're putting more effort into this when we're talking collective, not a collective, but a planning boardmast.org. Who's monitoring it? If it's the chair, that's the chair's responsibility to monitor that. they're not going to be
available, you pass it on. The the vice chair now is responsible this week for monitoring that email. You know what I mean? So, I don't think that's a a big excuse. I I see more issues with pipelining people into this. Now, I
can I'm reaching out to one individual to get answers. And that's not what you really want either >> is someone reaching out to planning board number five to get something from when it should the whole board should be seeing it. But there are lots of times when I have a conversation with someone
on the planning board >> and some of them have, you know, specific email accounts for their planning board business and some don't. And like I'm thinking about, you know, FOYA for that conversation would get literally every email in their in their
personal email account if they don't have it. So I am with Mark like everyone should have their own email address associated with their town business and I don't think a lot of people are going to do that without us providing it for them. >> So I don't I mean I I don't think we we
have to and I do think $30 a month for what is way more than we this is way more than we would need for most people. Um but I do agree that it would be much cleaner and safer if everyone had their own address. I
>> so I think yeah I think if somebody I think we could >> we've talked before about the need for sort of onboarding for new you know committee members and that can include a suggestion or a recommendation that they set up a separate you know town business
email account uh for themselves but I I just don't think it's reasonable to include every single person who has any affiliation with the town whatsoever at $32 a month. And you know, regardless
of whether we can get that down, we'll probably I mean, if we included everybody, we would get that down probably just because the pricing goes down per person when you have, you know, 500 versus 5,000 >> or the five or six trainings. But, and that was my next point, the amount of time that Nancy spends chasing down
folks about uh the necessary training um right now, even with the number of addresses, the limited number of addresses we have. That's just not how I want our employees spending their time. >> There's got to be other other service out there that could be made available for employees. and whether it's, you
know, Google has them. I mean, there's there's any number of alternatives that this can be for employees, but the downstep that's I still think 32 bucks is way too much. But, um, >> that's a basic license. >> Yeah. It's not even the
>> That's a basic license. That's $6.30. So what you're really paying for is the is the level the multiple levels of >> archiving and everything else >> of the security of the firewall and everything like that the secure messaging >> spam filters half of it
>> you have that's where you the the email filter the mcast and and I had I posed the same question because I know that that has been a concern of like let's dilute this a little bit or in some way shape or form and and
she actually had said No, that's that is we we can't risk ourselves in being infected by anything from the outside. >> But we're all outside. That's the problem. We are all outside. >> Okay.
>> It this is it's recommendation and they understand the scenario. They understand the situation with everybody's concerns and ultimately and this is this is what >> we are all outside the town. We do not have access to the town drives. We do not have access to any town computer
through an email system. >> The only thing we can do is we can get fished or hacked or through our email >> which would be us getting fished or hacked, not the town. >> You personally, not >> we do have access to one drive. >> Um, >> absolutely.
>> And viruses spread on email networks. >> I have the access I have access to the website. >> That's completely independent of your county email address. >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm I'm not inclined to second guess Nancy on that one. If she says
there's a risk um absent really strong evidence to the contrary, I would I would think that we would go with that, you know, with that assessment. I >> mean, we're obviously a divided board.
I'll make I can make a motion. Well, yeah. So, let's talk about just the planning board then. >> Yeah. So, >> because that's what our that's that's what this topic is, >> right? So, the planning board requested, I guess I'll call it personalized email addresses, town email addresses. So, one
for each um individual member. Um the recommendation is to have a single email address planning board at that goes to Maren for her designate and that person would forward it to the
chair who would distribute as needed. >> We have a town planner now and an assistant town planner. Right. >> And you can you can set up um more than one surrogate. So if it goes to Marin it could also go to is >> the Cooper. >> Cooper. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So that if one is out >> and they they can set up their own rules. Hey, listen. >> I'm going to be the first responder on any of these, but if you know I'm out, you jump on it. >> I mean, it's exactly what we do in our business. >> We have a bunch of different,
>> you know, one's for accounting, one's for, you know, there's all different that a lot of people have eyes on, but there's one person that's responsible for it until they say, "Hey, I'm out tomorrow. Keep an eye on the accounting folder." Mhm. >> Or email it. >> I think in I think in the interest of
transparency, it would be better to give them each uh email address at littletonmass.org. >> I think that it would help it would all of their stuff would be subject to to like foil laws, like open meeting laws.
And I don't, you know, right now anybody can send an email anywhere and not have it not be discoverable because they say it isn't. But they can do that anyway. We could do that with a select board member could do that if hey don't email the just email my personal email. I mean
>> yeah but it's just the integrity but someone but if their it is but if their public address >> that's published on the website and that they need to use for all official business is that address it's going to end up getting more traffic. >> So if I have my own personal Gmail
address bark at select board I can go and delete all my emails from Google and before it's foable. You can't do that when it's on the town system. So, >> so that's also I guess >> you're also signing you're also taking ethics training and things that say you don't do that. So, where we at? Where
are we at? Are we just going to scoop down to this point? >> What you can do >> because I can do something doesn't work. >> I don't think the ethics training tell you what you can and can't do with your emails. >> It's understood from open meeting. >> Well, I mean, even if it doesn't like but but >> there is a discovery and a destruction
rules that apply to us period when it comes to emails like that. And that's the stuff that's foyable that Diane works with. Um, you know, to include the >> Look, look, you're right. Like you can always get you can always bend the rules and get by them. This would add another
layer of accountability on top of what we have now. So, you know, it it belt and suspenders. It's still a to me it's a it's a riskreward, risk benefit, um cost benefit.
Uh there's a lot of to me I'm just I still lean the other way that this is just me working on um secure networks my entire life. The fewer the better. The less intrusion,
the less issues you have, the less resources you have to put into it to track people down for the trainings and and all these other things. just uh I think all of that outweighs the benefit to me personally of a a
board that's going to rotate every you know 3 years or two every three or four years. So, I I think having having personal email addresses, getting it, sending and receiving town business vastly increases the surface area that
an attacker has access to and actually is way less secure than than a managed email address that has all of this protection built in. So, that's my opinion. I mean, you know, I I am in favor of giving them all email addresses. I'm not saying that we need
to immediately go out and provision, you know, 700 at $30 each because we want to give one to every to every sustainability member. But if a board comes to us and asks for it, I think we should like, you know, give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll use it
and and and allow them. It's 150 bucks a month. >> I think our line on the selected boards, I mean, there's got to be a line. >> We don't have one. We don't have a policy. So, we're just sitting here. Where do you Yes. Someone watching this on another committee right now is going
to say, "Oh, of course I want a town email. I want it separate. I want to keep everything separate. I get I get the logic behind it. Every committee, every board, why wouldn't you want that? It's easy to separate the two." >> So, but but is your and your your objection is primarily monetary.
>> It's absolutely one of them. Yeah. >> Because it wasn't we didn't plan for it. No >> pun. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I'm with you on that the cost. Um, at the end of the day, we haven't discussed a policy on, okay, let's look at this holistically,
the whole everyone, and say who really needs it and why, what what's the what do we if because if we're saying we want everybody that's on the town, border committee to have their own personal email, it makes sense in your brain, but what what does that open us up to? Now,
the the cost of that is enormous if you were to do that. I mean, I don't even know how many boards of committees we have. So you have to draw the line >> 37 >> doesn't have personal emails. I mean um >> PNBC
>> in the business seems to run on all of these PNBC one >> PNBC. So, I'm I mean I'd have to I'm not convinced that the planning board needs individual emails because I haven't
witnessed or I haven't nothing's come to our attention that people aren't getting the information they need on the planning board. >> Marin seems to be doing a great job of distributing information. They've got an assistant now there that helps with this process. and I've got an IT professional
office that's telling us that where they stand. So, that's where I am. And I I know we're all over the map on this and I I respect very logical some of the stuff you guys are saying. >> Can I just clarify NY's recommendation is only one email address. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Okay. And I'm not I mean I would I'd be willing to look at a way to get to this what you're talking about >> budget for >> that requires you know budgeting and that would absolutely require an increase in IT staff. You would need
another individual. You're talking um the monitoring of a lot more >> a lot more accounts and the chase the as we know chasing the training down of who we have is ridiculous. But um
>> so I guess straw poll who would vote for this right now I would >> yes >> for >> for for giving an individual email just this case who which of us would vote for five email addresses for the planning board. >> So Mark and I are a yes. I'm curious
what you three are. >> I'm a no. >> Yeah I know. That's >> I I think they could have one address and could you please like I said they can have multiple surrogates. >> Yeah.
>> And Karen, what do you think? >> Um I'm with a single address. >> Okay. >> Until we can come up with a proper policy and provisions about who's paying for what. I think if a committee member wants
or you know an email address personalized email addresses it might need to come out of their own budget not it >> the whole you know >> like that's something that we should talk about in the future obviously not tonight but it's one one way that we could >> you said policy what else
>> I want I want to know I want a policy so that we can figure out who gets what and under what circumstances and who pays for it >> out just like I said I based it when I saw it went toities and saw it. I wanted to see where's this line of and they start who when does a planning board
start to get their own individual it's a pretty large community three times our size was the smallest I could find >> at 30,000 people. >> So >> 16,000 people in Oxford. >> Yeah. >> What did Oxford do? >> Yeah. We we did not uh we did not Oxford
did not um assign individual emails. So >> did you have one per committee or board? No, it would depend like BOH we we had one but still had staff similar to what's been recommended filtering
>> of the material through >> I think too there's a lot to be said for trying the less complicated less expensive option first and let's see you know if the planning board comes back to us and says this is a mess it's not working for us then absolutely let's you
know let's review the >> yeah but having a board member say I'm tired of using my personal email. I don't think it's an excuse. I I really don't because if I was if I ran for the select board and we had a collective email and I had to count on Jim to get me the emails, I would still be on the
select board. It's not that's not why I'm running, of course. >> So, is it a little bit of a hindrance? >> Sure. But >> and I would argue that we shouldn't have them either. >> Yeah. Well, not at that point. You can bring that motion up next. >> I'm I mean, why are we special more
special than they are? Because we have more business in front of us than most boards. >> Oh, >> every day. I mean, >> how many emails do you get a day for this? >> You're the chief you're the chief legislative body community. >> Yeah. >> TBC
conducts business for the town and they don't they have one email address that only the chair now can conduct business for the town >> is what you're saying. It's so weird. >> You're so multi-dimensional. You guys are just all over everything.
PNBC isn't. >> Yeah. >> And regardless of who's responsible, we're the ones that are going to get the email anyway, >> right? Whether it's a planning board issue or a PNBC issue or a cemetery commission issue, we're the ones that get the email. >> Yeah.
>> It's just a question of who we tell. I'm going to stay with what you said in lie of you know put this on something where we look down the road to create a policy and one that makes sense with >> okay >> a issue that a board is bringing to us. We've got all these issues that we
cannot resolve because we don't have individual emails and okay or it's gotten so crazy my personal email box at home has got a hundred emails to every one personal email. I just that hasn't been that wasn't raised in this
>> Yeah. like if if they you know my Gmail account is so is you know the one that I've set aside for for town is so um >> full that I would have to pay extra for memory now like that's a consideration for sure >> that doesn't seem >> like I said I would I would prefer to
start with the cheaper >> and less and the recommended option before we decide that the recommended option doesn't work >> and then resource it appropriately. who's writing the policy and who's investigating what
>> Yeah. I don't think it's a knee-jerk thing. We don't have to jump all over this because >> Well, you said we we're not doing something else until we have a policy, but no one's volunteered to write a policy and no one's volunteered to >> Well, I don't see it as a pressing issue. I guess it's it's another thing that
>> the planning board sees it as a pressing issue and we're telling them no. So, are we expecting them? >> We're open to doing one email address for them. That's that's >> that's not what they asked for. That's what NY's countered with >> planning it forward asked for individual emails and we're telling them no
>> and Karen saying let's try one and see how it goes >> until we have a policy that no one's writing and until we investigate something else. So my question is who's writing the policy? >> Well, right now we could say a policy that >> No, there isn't.
>> Select board is the only board that has individual emails. >> Well, that's not true. We're pick >> charter committee does, board of health does, school committee does, the library does light and water does >> meeting twice twice a month and that's an enormous amount an enormous amount of
emails that they have to go back and forth with and access to things and they're going to be dissolved in 18 months >> as a sunset. >> I I just I >> I think board of health should move over to this model as well. >> They are. >> Yeah. >> I I think All right.
>> Can I ask Matthew a question? Um, you you mentioned that you have interactions with Mark and I've never heard from any of the members of the planning board saying that they wanted an email address. Um, did Mark ever ask you?
>> No. No. But no, no one has ever asked me about this email address directly. >> Can we ask um Nancy if if the whole board wants them or if if one will suffice? >> I mean, every every time we >> if all five of them want it, it's a lot more than >> Yeah. You know what I mean?
>> Yep. But I mean, I've had people, you know, just in my tenure, even on the finance committee, there's always one or two people that say, "I want my I want my autonomy." >> They they say, "I want my tongue." They don't get it, but I just think so. You're always going to have that course for people.
>> So, to Chuck's point, let's find out who how many people on the board really want it. >> They might all say >> otherwise we're arguing about nothing. >> Yeah. But >> 20% of the board, maybe. So, I'm just I'm going to make a motion at this time um until we I know Mark's going to get on me. You're creating the policy,
aren't you? And yes, I you know, I will drop something if that's not going to be by next week. We got a lot of business to take care of. But I think >> it just brings up another thing that why is it this way? There's some reasons financially, sure, but why did I look at
other communities and it's just not a thing? Where's what's the It can't be strictly financial. Can't be. So there maybe a security side, I don't know, or resourcing. But um I move that select board vote to disapprove the use of town
email addresses for the planning board. >> Do we want to move to set up a single address though? >> Second. Can I do a second? >> Would my be okay with that? >> Absolutely. I asked. >> Can we make them separate motions? We >> do a separate separate motion. >> Yeah, let's make those.
>> We'll make them separate motions. Oh, I I'll I'll stick with my motion. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Chuck. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> motion Matthew. >> All those opposed? >> No.
>> All right. Three to two of the motion. >> No. Move that. >> They just they just got us got it by us. Mark. Move that the select board vote to approve the use of a single collective email. Is this how we're doing this?
>> Collective email. A single email address. >> It's just a single email address. Yeah. >> Um move that the select board vote to approve a single email address for the planning board >> town business. >> For town business. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All
those in favor? I opposed. >> That one seemed >> great. All right. >> Whoever had this issue on their bingo card is the most contentious >> until sprung up on us. Let's be honest.
>> Until we got to the Long Lake discussion, which is next. So, um, who was everyone here for the, um, meeting that we had with the conservation commission about this issue? >> When Chase introduced it, >> besides watching it.
>> Oh, did you watch it? Okay. All right. So, you're familiar with what's going on? >> Yeah. So, so tomorrow night conservation commission is meeting to discuss this again and it's the first time they've discussed it since our joint meeting and Chase Gerby asked me to show up and like because I'm a liazison represent the
select board's views on it. Um so I thought we could have a discussion maybe it'll be brief maybe it won't about what we you know what what's our stance on what we think that they should do. Um, and I went and looked for uh precedents
in other towns. And basically it varies. It goes from literally saying uh nothing to the state has requirements, go look at them to we encourage you to to get a permit from
the state to you need to get a permit from us and from the state to here is 16 pages of boilerplate with a fee structure and you have to get it from us and this is when you have to take the docks out of the water and yada yada yada. So, it's all over the place. The
fees are like everywhere from $45 to 200 per year. >> Yeah. >> So, most of them most of the ones that have um that that do require permits, it's an annual permit. You have to renew it every year. And several of them that I that I looked at actually required you to pull the dock out of the water before
the ice formed. Um so, I know that some of those docks are permanent. So, I think it's within our purview to do any of those things. Um, Conscom is definitely, I think, more interested in the stricter end of the of the scale, but there was no, not that I could have
found it, there was no town where I found, you know, docks are completely prohibited. And the reason is probably because I'm I wasn't looking at any towns that had conservation land with docks on them >> or at least that I could find in my goo in my, you know, hour of Google searching. So that's where so that's you
know so I just I want to hear from the rest of the board what you think we should say. >> I mean are we looking for two two separate I mean obviously the select board i.e. the town owned land versus conservation land. Are we trying to separate these?
>> No. I think I think that consom is very interested in having it be consistent. >> Okay. >> And I I mean I think that would make a lot of sense. Um, did you get to read up on I read quite a bit about this one. Obviously, there's a lot in our pack and a lot of
people that had input on this as well. Um, you know, in watching the meeting and I I just try to sit all the way back and say, okay, what what's what's our end state here? Our our goal is to allow as many people
as possible enjoy long. Mhm. >> Um, do I think that there's some issues with Sure. If I buy a home that's in front of the lake and the town owns a sliver of land in front of it, sure, you shouldn't be able to sell your house saying you
>> you have you, you know, I you have a dock and all these things. Sure, that shouldn't be part of it. Um, but because that value of your house just increased by exponentially. So I believe that historical precedence has to played
somewhere in here to me. I we've we going back 100 years pretty close >> I would say. >> Yeah. >> 20 to 50 probably. I think it's 100. >> Yeah. >> These homes and houses have had access to some degree. >> Yeah. >> The first ads in in the globe that said
come to Littleton. >> Get a get a lake lot. >> Yeah. That's right. Yeah. >> The 20s. So, they've had access um and it's turned into yes, people put a raft up there or a boat or whatever. And now the docks um all because the town failed
to create some type of policy, >> right? I mean, >> yeah, >> historically, was it ever really needed? I don't know. >> I mean, I also look at it as like, is there damage being done? >> I know that there are cases where one of the owners put up signs saying it was
private. It couldn't be private. But but Chase said that was dealt with within >> a day of the >> So I I don't think I don't think there's a lot of contention on the lakefront. >> No, >> I think it's really seems to be Conscom is split down the middle about what they want to do.
>> So if I'm if I want to go to the lake, um I don't know, and go fishing. Theoretically, I could walk out on one of those docks that somebody put in. >> They're all public. They're on public land. >> They're they they're all they they they should all be accessible.
>> So that creates >> even though they say private. >> Well, so there was only one and that that I think that owner has >> taken the signs down and that it shouldn't be an issue is what Chase said. >> I'm not saying something shouldn't be done because there is a liability that comes with that. Let's just say somebody
trips and falls through a dock because of a rotted and they break away. I don't where does that go? It's not going to go on the home insurance policy of the owner of that house. Correct. >> Well, more to the point, the wetlands act like the consom does have the right
to say nothing can be built according to the state law. Nothing can be built in this 100 foot buffer. We own this land. Everything has to go. That that is within their purview to say that. And actually, we couldn't do anything about it. It's their >> with pre-existing. >> Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yes.
>> We've had things. Chapter it's chapter 91 like and it's pretty pretty draconian. >> So it just keep I keep from a select board members point of view I just keep falling back to we have historical precedence here of people enjoying the lakefront
as far as I know historically without issue. >> Okay so that so that's one thing at play for me. >> Um >> why the sudden change? >> Well there's probably members of Cong say well this is protected land. I mean I um and that that is a big piece to
this for sure. But how can we regulate or at least what people put there? Are we talking about removable docks? Are we talking about maybe not but are we talking about things that um
keep into mind the issues that conservation has you know that prevent they're not I don't know obviously no motorized >> yeah type things but I'm just trying to think of other things that conservation might have an issue with >> um this this one
is really tough but I'm going to be I am still I am hung up on we have a historical precedence with no real issues besides, hey, that's not your property. Get your signs off it. Um, get your garbage out of, you know, we can set a policy for
that type of thing. has to have some type of a neat appearance or when it comes to somebody who you know conservation's attention you know they have root rules where there's too much what is the rules the conservation has when there's too much
junk in someone's yard or you know a a barn collapses and it's a a nuisance >> it's it's a nuisance right right >> those type of things they still have control over but I it's hard for me because I did listen to conservation and I understand some of
those issues. But I think there's a common ground here where we we as a board can keep access for these people to enjoy the lake that they bought homes and they live right in front of and well creating some some policy. We have to have
something that is going to allow um the use to be safe and to be uniform to some degree. Docs can only you could get into that if you want, you know. I don't know. >> So, we've got two, at least two in these pictures that are marked private and one
that's got a towway zone, no parking sign nailed into the tree. >> Well, that that can be. >> So, um Yeah. And it will be, I'm sure, but just saying it's more than one. >> Yeah. Um, I think we need to consider that, you
know, if it's public, if we're allowing the public to put in docks, then anybody in town could build a dock anywhere they want along Long Lake. There's nothing, you know, I mean,
I don't and I don't think any of us want to see that happen. Um, I understand that folks bought near and at Long Lake for, you know, the views and for the access and the ease of access and that's great and they will still have it, but
this is public land and they don't have any more claim to the right to build a dock than anybody else in town. >> Mhm. Good point. >> Um, so I I think we do need some sort of permitting process just for that reason alone. Um, and I think the permitting
process is also would help us from a liability standpoint. It would include an indemnity indemnification clause, for example. Um, I don't see the need for us to, you know, tell people when to pull up the docks if they want to leave them in, I
guess. Um, and I'm assuming that would make them deteriorate faster, but assuming the permits require that things be maintained in good condition. Um, I do I do think that
I do think we should follow Conscom in terms of require in terms of, you know, what's harmful. Um um you know I think if you're
cutting down trees and if you're getting rid of vegetation and you're you know paving over areas or you know putting stones down or what have you. Um you know that's and cons says you know these are the things that will cause damage to the lake then I think we
should follow their lead on that. >> Okay. I think also I recall um there was a general sentiment that almost everybody who had a dock is perfectly fine with there being permitting process. >> There's 10. It looks like there's 10 right now. >> Uh nine I think nine docks.
>> Nine and one on our one on our land. >> So I think there should be an annual permit. Whether they require them to pull it out every year, that's a conscom decision. I think there should be better signage down there that's basically says it's Long Lake Park so that people know
that we own it, not that it's not private land, that it's public land. >> I think by having the annual permitting process, we can have an annual inspection process to say what docks are safe and what is required and have better control and like and you know let
people know you put a dock in, but it's >> in disrepair. >> It's it's a public dock. other people can use it >> and we can't allow public docs to be dangerous. >> Right. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> So, um but I I think we can let consom decide
whether or not the docks are required to be removed every year or anything like that. That should be more in their purview. >> Okay. >> Um but I do think there just generally needs to be signs up there that say Long Lake Park >> so that people know that it's >> public.
>> Yeah. Chuck, >> this is it. >> Yeah. I mean, I I we've got people that certainly their their home value is is tied to whether appropriately or or not
appropriately um to frontage and um if they have docks. But I I agree with everything you just said in the permitting process. I think is exactly the way you do that as far as um protecting our quarters um
because if if we do in that's going to put more burden on us but the peritting process will cover that but if Henry or whomever we have a harbor master the harbor master goes out and inspects the docks um we've got plausible deniability at that point those docks were it's permitted to that house
>> across the street and um I I understand the um rationale behind it being a public public structure. Um, someone wants to take the liability on of having other folks fishing off their dock and I mean, >> but it's not their liability.
>> Making burgers on their dock. >> It's our liability, >> right? >> Not if it's not if it's >> if the permitting process calls it. >> Oh, okay. Okay. I see. If you're going So, right now, there's nothing stopping you from going and building a dock and putting it right in front of somebody's house. >> Right. Correct.
>> A lot of I can give you a lot of reasons why I won't be doing it. No. So, so strictly speaking, the state law prevents it, >> right? >> There is no there is no there's no like carve out. We we would have to create a carve out to allow docks. >> So, you would call a great you do boat
slots. You say you these are all the these are the slots that people could actually >> I mean I think that that is the kind of detail that we're going to have to discuss or KCOM is going to have to decide. >> Do we just leave the legacy ones there? Do we allow a certain number? Do we And
then you can trade or whatever. I don't know. But >> um >> build a marina. >> Yeah. >> I'm trying to think how some I know this happens some other lakes or ponds where they have >> like pe the certain number and then a couple of them. >> Huh? >> Graten's got a couple of them. >> But are they but are the people that
have the frontage not necessarily the frontage. It's owned by the town. But this is a unique is it? >> So we can we can go to um Fort Pond. >> That's private. Those are all private frontages >> to the lakes's edge. >> Yeah. >> To the waters edge. >> So we'd be completely completely
>> But they still But they still follow the same permitting should follow the same permitting process. >> Is Fort Pond a great pond. >> Yes. Okay. >> All All the >> everything but Mil Pond is >> everything but Mil Pond according to Jerry Kovalo's application. >> That's right.
>> But um Conscom can require permits for all docks on all great ponds. >> Yeah. >> Right. or can deny deny theoretically deny any on all great bonds. >> And do you give, you know, do you give access or do you give priority to
residents that the right in front of their homes is a dock or in that neighborhood when they, you know, or is it just a free-for-all? >> Honestly, like I think that is not may may not be a question for us. That may be a question that that KNSCOM has to decide as they decide how to do the
permitting process. I mean, we could we could certainly have an opinion on it. they have to be in a butter to butter within so many feet or something >> or something. But like that that you know they're going to have to work that out. I I just wanted to get a sense from this board of like >> where we're at between the extremes of absolutely no docks and do whatever you
want. And it sounds like we're generally coming down on there should be a limited number and we should really have a permitting process to protect ourselves and it should be public for everybody and it should be clearly marked as such. Yeah. >> And if Conscom just came out and said,
"Remove all the docks." And it's >> there's nothing we could do about it. I mean, there'd be one left of it's the one that we have that the Select Board owns the land on. >> Um, >> technically, they could make that one come out, too, because it's still
>> Tom Harrington said that um if we wanted, right, >> could build two or three dogs. >> The state owns the land under the water and so it would be a state, >> but it's still a wetlands thing. >> Yes. Flips. Thank you. What is the word I'm looking for? Anyway, >> yeah, you break this down into slips. >> So, so I think I have enough for the
meeting tomorrow night. >> I'm not going to make I won't I won't make any decisions. >> Can I confuse the issue? >> Yeah. >> More? >> Yeah. I love that. >> Um, >> it's my favorite thing. Please, >> I mean, one of the things that are uh a couple things that were also
highlighted here that that would have to be addressed is they're talking about and I know the the damage to uh that was one of the concerns of conservation commission, the damage to the to the lake to the to the shore and stuff like that. >> So, one thing you're going to have to look at
>> is the watercraft. I mean you here you have you've got a picture of a rowboat that is that you know as boats are pulled up onto the shore and and and put it in amongst the so I don't know if that's doing damage to the to the
shoreline but be prepared to that will that will be a concern also. Yeah, I think I think for me that would be the same as as the other things where you know I think we should follow Kongcom's lead on determining what would be
harmful. >> Um they're in a they're in a better position to be able to to know what what those things are. >> Okay. And who's the police of this? >> That's a good question.
Rob. Rob said that. Are you the chief of this? >> You're gonna please. >> Far from it. Although, you got a booklet from me earlier today. >> No, he did. No. And you very some very good points you shared. So, thank you. Um I
>> did I allowed to speak >> briefly? Um >> because we have your comments that you already said. >> No, I I won't be repeating them. Yeah. Uh, far from it. Uh, I appreciate the conversation that just took place and Matthew, I know from previous discussion
you've listened in on some of the conscom earlier statements that were that were directionally not listened public whatsoever. Get the docs out. Get them they would have been out by now based on some of the members
comments. So your discussion with regard to precedence and where you're directionally at with docs com completely separate from all the watercraft and all that type of stuff. I'm not disagree I'm with regard to docs. >> If you're of that opinion I would just
ask will you be sharing that because >> yes that that's the reason that's the reason we had this discussion is that I I'm going to attend the cons meeting. Chase asked me to >> as recently as several hours ago, an
email came out stating that realize that there's only 15 minutes on the agenda and so many of you aren't going to be allowed to speak and I know of enough people I expect to be on the call to know that virtually nobody's going to be
able to speak and so your perspective could diffuse or at least expand on the discussion to realize select board has one thought pattern with regard to historical presidents and aspect of an annual permit process that I would say
is diametrically the opposite of the previously communicated items and I think that's important to residents. One of the remarks that I'll end with is you've taken in and I appreciate what you've done. you realize how how
difficult and stressful this topic is to many people in the neighborhood. And it's not just the people that have the docks. It's many people like me that don't have a dock, but yet it's part of my community. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We pass on or through Matthew just that
um I I don't think anybody's hair needs to be on fire about this. This has been this way for almost a hundred years. So, let's think this through. If we have to hold more meetings, they don't have to make this massive decision tomorrow, do they? >> No, I I mean I don't think so. I you
know, all I know is this is the followup to the discussion that we had here with with them, >> which is good. But I think >> with Jay >> request, >> we can really we can really with concom uh water out some of the details on making this making the community proud. I think on
both sides preserving KCOM's concerns, >> I hope that you know, there would be a joint meeting. >> Yeah. >> At some point before we, you know, before any actions taken. >> I'm glad they're including us in the
>> Yeah, it's great if we can all get on the same page and have one consistent policy. >> This was a lot. >> I think that's a really important goal and I appreciate it. It's >> one of those where you want to go I need to go down and actually look. >> Yeah. >> Just walk around. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you all for that input. Thanks. Now we get to assign articles for special town meeting. >> Chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck. I'm in. >> Put me in, coach. >> Depends. Do you want me to pass or not?
>> Come on, man. >> All right. So for article one, um the way that this is working out is that the Shaker Lane Building Committee is going to have a fairly extensive um
presentation and that's going to be by Steve Benoodi. Um and then Tim was saying that he is expecting just a couple minutes from each um of the other committees that are involved. So finance committee would get their time.
Select board would get their time. Anybody else? That's it. Right. School committee. >> School committee would get their time. But that would only that would be, you know, under five minutes. Um closer to three, I think, is what Tim said. >> Three minutes. >> So, um
I'm happy to take that one. I'm happy to. >> No objection for me. >> All right. Second one, too. Then I I don't think that's >> Yeah. a lot kind of goes with it.
>> All right. Bills of prior years. >> This is typically a >> So, we have the amended one also. >> Yep. I'm going to take that one, too. Yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, well, the bills are probably years and requires a 910. So, I think we pull that one out by itself, right? >> Yeah, it does.
>> Yeah, usually. >> I'll take that one. >> Yeah, of course. I mean that may be on the consent agenda. >> It's not intense to deal with all the two/3s just the majorities. Yeah. >> Those are probably intense approval.
>> Uh these are all fire department as you know. So however you want to do it. >> Article four fund collective bargaining agreement. >> Yeah I said >> authorized transfer from trust funds. Article five.
>> Okay. Accept the alternative procedure for abandoned funds. >> What I'll take I don't have one. I'll I'll take that. >> That's going to be consent agenda anyway. >> Yeah. >> Bylaw amendment to change the hawker
peddler law. >> I definitely want that. I like >> Chuck. You want that one? >> My high school team was the Hawks. So >> the Peddlers Drake May was at the Zarian CM football game on Friday. >> Has nothing to do with
You talk >> 36 King Street transfer from the stabilization fund. >> Sure. That's what it is. >> Okay. >> Bylaw amendment regarding posting of warrant. >> Sure. I'll take that one. >> All right.
Increase to income limits for senior tax deferral program. Gary or Chuck? >> I'll do it. Okay. Good. >> Gary should get the next one. >> Director of veteran services. I get it. No. >> Oh, yeah. It's not even though it's it it doesn't really affect.
>> No, >> but it's it's a title change, but I have to recuse myself from it. >> The term >> go from one. >> I can do that. Or Chuck, you want it? >> Sure. >> All right. >> I'm tapping from here, though. >> All right. Bylaw amendment regarding director of finance and budget position
title. >> Yeah, I can do it. Yeah. >> Resolution on climate action and resilience for the town of Littleton. Sure. >> Do we That's not one of our articles though. >> No, that's sustainability committee. >> It's listed as us though, I think.
>> Okay, >> I'll take it anyway. That's fine. >> You want it, Mark? >> Yeah. >> By law, debt exclusion override financial management fund. Oh, that's citizens. So, none of us will take that one. >> All right. So, I've got in order Karen,
Karen, Mark, Gary, Chuck, Matthew, Chuck, Matthew, Mark, Chuck, Chuck, Gary, Mark. Nobody. >> So, the citizens petition >> sent that to us >> if it goes through, which I don't know. I thought it was going to be bold. >> Oh, I hadn't heard that, but
>> sounds like it's going to be pulled, but if it isn't, >> I know there was some strong opinions from this board and the final. >> So, then then we can speak on just whoever address it if that happens. >> A strong opinion. I know Steve Benoodi has a strong opinion, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay,
>> good. That was easy. >> Okay, >> now I'll probably lose this between now and then. I'll forget. >> Please will send it out, right, >> Jim? Absolutely. Thank you. >> Discuss the 40B application from Habitat for Humanity for 87 Tahadawan Road.
>> So, I'll take this one. So, um Habitat, so we go back far enough. Um when we bought the Brownswood property five 6 years ago now >> 2acre lot >> there was a 1.6 acre lot that was carved off uh for affordable housing. The
affordable housing trust contributed funds to uh help purchase Brownswoods um in exchange for that lot. After many years and much pain, uh the we issued the affordable housing trust issued an
RFP that Habitat for Humanity uh was the uh the uh >> winning respondent >> winning respondent of um and we uh sold them the lot for a dollar. The RFP was to build a duplex
on that property um which is Uh the idea behind the duplex was to get two families into an affordable um in Littleton. Um what no one on the affordable housing trust realized is that duplexes aren't allowed in
Littleton because they're duplexes. We only allow single family houses. So, um, Habitat was in front of the ZBA, uh, last Thursday who was not, uh, the general feeling was the ZBA was not
looking favorably on, uh, allowing an exception for the for the duplex. Habitat is exploring other possibilities of how they can go forward with this um, and would like a one possibility is doing a friendly 40B. There's a couple
others that they're exploring. um they would like a vote of support from the select board that we are in favor of building a deeply affordable duplex. >> Can we do 10 tiny houses? >> Huh? >> 10 tiny houses. >> The So the other thing that they they
said in addition to getting two families in is for them the the um financials work out better because they have such they have such a low interest rate and they hold the note I think for the 20 years. They want two mortgage incomes
instead of just one. >> So, so they say they they typically and it varies, but they usually can't make single family homes work. >> And just to clarify, >> they definitely have. >> So, so they said they would have a very difficult time making a single family
homework on that site because the site work >> um is quite expensive. If you've ever walked that property, there are so many invasives. We walked I walked it with Conscom. Con they needed a ve um they're within the 1500 foot buffer zone. We
tried to walk it with Conscom last week. Um there were so many invasives that it's Yeah. You went from pick your invasive. It's there. We went from the barberries that and the roses that stick you like crazy to trying to go under honeysuckle bushes.
>> It was worse before we actually my yard >> took down the house and everything. It was It was worse. It was terrible. Jim O'Neal's done a good job of getting out there. And >> so zoning hasn't ruled on it. >> Zoning has not ruled. >> So what happened was that the
representative from Habitat asked for a straw poll. And when it became clear that that they that they weren't going to to approve it, he asked for a continuation of the hearing. So zoning has not ruled on it. But I think if they had voted that night, they would not have approved it.
>> They needed a they needed a >> four out of four. four out of four. >> Okay. So, just to clarify, the exception that they want is written into the zoning bylaw. This is an exception that's already established and they just won't apply it.
>> There's no zoning. >> It's not just don't make us subject to this zoning bylaw. >> Yeah. Well, it's it's don't make us subject to the single family rule. >> That's what it's a use variance is what they call it. >> Okay. So, we're asking them to vary the
rules on that single family rule to allow two family household. >> But aren't there pre-established reasons to >> So there I'm sorry, go ahead. >> to um grant a variance. >> Yeah. Like there's a bunch of them and the hardship is typically you need to
demonstrate hardship. >> Okay. >> And um some of the hardship um examples they gave are the terrain is too difficult for us to build a house in the same >> shape and topography. >> Like shape and topography. And then, you know, I I think >> there's financial hardship. >> Financial hardships and so forth. So, we
would argue that this was definitely a financial hardship. >> Yeah. >> I mean, outside of Habitat from being a great organization that does this, I didn't see the RFP. I didn't see the responses to the RFP. >> It's just the feel of, you know, it was obviously written wrong.
>> It was clearly clear in our town. So, not only us, but also the planning board, which saw it and >> and town council >> and town council all missed the fact that there was no duplex allowed. >> So, Whoops. Um, >> yeah, I'm I'm actually I'm torn between
going back out on an RFP and seeing >> Yeah, they were the only respondent habitat. >> They were. Okay, that was the next question. um that the Habitat is basically built the plans they submitted is for a 2200 ft²
duplex 1,200 in one unit and 1,000 in the other. It's a pretty small three-bedroom uh one three-bedroom unit and then a two-bedroom senior ready ADA accessible unit. I know. It's almost I I wish they
would just build a home in an accessory dwelling unit with this because then you've now you need our zoning. >> That's one of the possibilities they're looking at. So >> if this doesn't if the zoning won't allow a duplex, that's something they would consider. >> They're they're they are looking at everything. They they're just asking
for, you know, basically our support. They just want us to to say we we support you, you know, we support you trying to build two a two family house here, >> a duplex. >> I mean, I I Yes.
>> Okay. I mean, I'm in favor obviously. >> I Yeah. I I mean, I'm s I'm sitting here. I didn't watch the zoning meeting. I don't know what their mindset was to for an absolute probably a no on a straw poll just because of precedents. They don't want to get into this. Yeah, that the understand the argument was they didn't want to set a precedent and
>> this is a >> our response was that this is such a narrow precedent. It's a deeply affordable senior deedrestricted forever like 60% or less AMI house. >> Like let's let's set that precedent by all means like I want more of those in
Littleton. >> Chuck, did you have something? I was going to say, I mean, they could try to wedge it in there so that they they get the soil conditions, the shape or the topography. Um, but that's that's more about why why you're
placing it closer to the setback and that kind of thing. The other leg or um reason you can approve an appeal is um doesn't deriggate from the intention of the bylaw >> does you So they I think they're going
with black and white and there it's the zoning board of appeals. So there's always gray when you're you know you're granting a variance. Um and we do have there's no precedent within um a butter to a butter. So if there if three houses next to it were duplexes
but then we changed the bylaws and we can't do it anymore. They'd be grandfathered by chapter 40 to be able to do it because it's a butter already already is not in compliance. But the um we again we do have duplexes in Littleton. Not a bunch of them, but we
do have a few. Um so I think that if we can try to appeal to their senses, it makes sense. And Matthew, you just nailed it. It's such a narrow um >> precedent to be set. Yeah. But I think that it >> Yeah. The only other place this could
possibly be a thing in the near future would be the Derky. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Right. which >> wouldn't be a bad place. >> And frankly, there's no precedent. You can't press You can't set a precedent with an appeal. >> A decision to a variance is not a precedent. It's not precedent.
>> Well, I mean, their argument is, well, the next time someone some developer comes to us asking to build a duplex, he's going to point to this and say, "You allowed it there." >> Every case stands on its own merit. >> I understand. Yeah. >> So, do you guys you want a motion to support a variance? Is that what we're looking for here? Just a motion to
support uh um >> building a two family house. Is that right? >> Uh vote that the select or recommend >> move >> move that does like board uh vote to support the building of a two
family duplex structure at >> 87 >> 87 to Hadawan Road. >> Second >> requesting variance. >> Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Good discussion. >> Yeah. >> It's your time to shine, Jim. >> Let's hear it. >> Oh, I'm going to set a precedent. Okay. You are truly unprecedented.
>> Oh, thank you. I think uh just uh uh just a few things. some some really impressive things. Uh but uh so we've got uh the as you know that the the team at the over at the library has been uh
has absorbed the uh overflow from the closure of the Westford uh library. It's going to be for two years. So that has increased their foot traffic by 700 people a month. >> Wow. >> Is that Westford getting renovated or something? >> Yeah, two years they'll be down. Uh
there is also uh the flashers up at Goldsmith, the last set, they'll be installed on Wednesday. >> Uh the there was an assessment for renewing the police department's accreditation that's going to be starting in April. So they already are
accredited, which is very impressive. Uh so this is their renewal. So they will be uh going through that. Uh Wednesday, uh there is a climate action plan presentation for some town staff spec
specific departments. That's by Michelle Zelena, the regional consultant through Northern Man's Council of Governments. >> That's Thursday, right? Thursday. >> It's the 23rd. That's Thursday. Thank you. I'm sorry. Uh on Wednesday is the storm water.
We're having a an internal team meeting with Ty and Barn about our stormwater asset management plan which is uh which is also important. So uh few of the few of the big things uh we have Grten uh
they are on the site they are fully mobilized at the site where the satellite emergency facility will be going. >> So they are rocking and rolling right out of the gate. That's the UMass. >> Yes, sir. >> Medical facility. >> Exactly. Wow. >> Helport and room for expansion as they
expand services. It is a it's an it's it's a trauma center. It's it's emergency. >> It is something that uh is is viewed upon that um if there is a necessity after you become stable, you look to have to stay for a couple days or
anything, that's when they will transport you to to a hospital. But uh it is uh you know full-on emergency center. Uh had that we had that and last but not least uh we had as you all know
we had our bond call uh last week >> the finance team and uh it is uh uh I'm I'm very very thrilled to report thank you to the select board. Thank you for the fin and the finance team. We are maintaining our trip AA the highest bond
rating um rating you could get >> them off the edge >> from did yes so very impressive so give all yourself a pat on the back and finance committee and uh the finance
team outstanding job and uh it's great fantastic and that's it >> I do have a quick question on tying bond so what what why why do we meet with When it comes to the storm >> storm water, it's just it's they're our consultants for our storm water plan and
just and just making sure we're in compliance. >> Correct. >> I thought we were in compliance and always changing. >> Oh. Oh, it's it's a con especially with this administration. Yes. >> Okay. >> Minutes.
>> There's one thing that was a little odd at the end of the um public input. There was a there was a paragraph about discussions of email addresses for town boards. Did we have that discussion during p during our our members update? You weren't
Chuck. You and Gary were both absent from this. >> Cuz I I don't remember. Maybe we did talk about it, but I don't remember. >> Maybe Sue was clairvoyant. She knew that we're going to discuss it. Yeah. No, I mean we did we did start to talk about
it, but it was >> but it was a it was a it was an agenda item under select board discussions. I thought >> Yeah, it was. >> So, I don't I mean maybe I don't know. It's not >> maybe we can >> it's not necessarily inaccurate except
that it's out of order, but it's not a big deal. >> Could ask for them to um review and confirm Okay. >> You could approve them subject to review and confirmation or we can wait.
>> I don't know how important it is. Like honestly like I mean factually it's fine just if the order is wrong. I was just hoping one of you remembered that we had that discussion or didn't. >> Okay. >> I'm fine with approving them as is. >> Mark, do you remember? >> I don't remember.
>> I'm not hearing the whole place just goes, you know. That's true. >> You're the glue that holds us together. >> Yeah, that's what it is. >> The putty. >> All right. Should we go ahead and approve them? The substance is accurate.
It's just a question of when it happened. >> Move that the select board vote to approve the meeting minutes from the select board meeting on October 6th, 2025. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I. >> I. It is 8:46
p.m. >> I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved by Matthew, seconded by Chuck. All those in favor? >> I. Nine minutes early, folks. >> Good night, little