Good evening, Littleton. Welcome to the November 17th uh select board meeting. We'll start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Gary. >> Uh yes. Um >> thanks. >> Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Um just kind of a wanted to acknowledge uh this passing of um our former police chief uh
Bruce Barker uh earlier this week. Believe it was the 12th. Um just a little bit about uh Bruce Barker. Uh you know he was the police chief back in early 70s. I think 1974 uh at the ripe age of 24 years old. So
he held that position for almost a decade. what besides being such a young chief, what what makes it interesting, he was actually the chief of Littleton and Boxboro at that time to give you an idea of what uh the town looked like. So, um I did wanted to we're going to do a moment of silence, but I first wanted
to let everyone know that um the funeral service will take place on Saturday, November 22nd at 11:00 a.m. at First Parish uh and that's in Conquered Center on 20 Lexington Road. And um the
21st on Friday will be the uh the wake uh at the uh D funeral home at 27 Bedford Street. And you can you can see his um obituary at the D funeral home website as well. It's had extraordinarily extraordinary life. Um
so if we could just take a few seconds to have a moment of silence. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Uh this evening we have um start with the mail, then we'll go over to department and board updates, then over
to public input, members updates, public hearings. Energy North is requesting a change of manager. Zach's Automotive is requesting an application for a class 2 auto dealer license. We'll move over to licensing select
board discussions at 7:25 on a couple permits to review among other things. 10 administrator update and then minutes. We'll adjourn promptly at 7:45 p.m. Let's go ahead and start with the meal, please.
>> Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Uh let's talk about current vacancies on uh on the town boards. We got uh opportunities with the agricultural commission, committee for the exploration of real estate, tax relief for seniors, economic development committee, master plan implementation committee, permanent
municipal building committee, personnel advisory committee, sustainability committee, zoning board of appeals, and an appointment by Littleton Electric Light and Water Department. Uh there's one opportunity on their finance committee and here we have sign up to
receive public notifications for the town of Littleton. Scan the QR code or register at www.ittletonmma.orgsubscribe. Community impacts, public safety activity, town meeting changes, town events, public health concerns, transportation issues. Stay informed. Uh
we have select announcement of select board office hours. uh Tuesday, November 4th, uh which sorry about that. Uh t Monday, November 24th from 2 to 4 with Mr. Rambacha. Friday, December 5th
from 12:30 to 2:30 with Chairwoman Morrison. Monday, December 22nd from 2 to 4 with Mr. Rambacha. DPW seeking snowplow contractors for the 2025 2025 2026 winter season. packets
available at the DPW office at 39 Road uh on the DPW website or call 978-540-2670 for information. Rates begin at $100 an hour and up to $153 an hour depending on equipment. Incentive sign up bonuses of
$1,000. We have some gift acceptance. Uh uh we've got uh from uh Liz Tridiac from EHS COA. Uh the uh the party offering the gift Kristen Grimes in the amount of
$66463 for the Tread Fund tax relief for the elderly and disabled. Thank you very very much for your generous gift. And another one from u from Liz from the
COA at EHS from the Friends of Littleton COA. A $10,000 gift for the Tread Fund tax relief for the elderly and disabled. They never stop giving, huh? That's That's great. Um we have uh
uh oh there's a couple other a couple other announcements we'd like to uh the friends giving uh happening Monday November 24th at 1 p.m. the center on shadic in the multi-purpose room singing trooper performs at 3 p.m. Call to
register at 978-5402470 and it's sponsored by the Littleton Rotary Club. always a uh a very well attended event. And I think we have one more and then any um need of ice melt and sand mix, get a bucket delivered for
free. The sand for seniors, the Littleton Elder and Human Services, the Council on the Aging, call them and they will arrange for uh some sand to be delivered to your home. 978-540-2470. Great job, EHS. Um thank you. I think
that's I think that's it. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> First order of business under uh department board updates and requests, we have a uh special recognition of uh Richard Kent from Elder and Human Services. Mr. Kent has been um
volunteering here in Littleton in various roles for uh nearly 50 years. Um, I was uh just so impressed by by what I um what I read that Liz uh noted that he's um started with um the
firefighters and EMS back in 1978 and then uh worked as a volunteer driver for Meals on Wheels and then he became a part-time driver for um the Council on Aging and he's recently retired from his position and we want to thank him for
his 50 years of service. We have a certificate of recognition. The Littleton Select Board recognizes Richard Kent on behalf of the people of Littleton in recognition of your nearly 50 years of service. Thank you for your dedication and commitment to the town of
Littleton and compassion to those we serve. Mr. Kent, will you come up? Thank you. >> Thank you. Can we do a picture? >> Absolutely. >> You up for a picture? >> Sure. >> Thanks. >> Yellow book.
One, two, three. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Thank you. fancy. >> We need to get a bigger folder. We got out through the state. >> I know. >> Yes. Just very quickly, this came in a little
bit last minute, but we also have a citation um from the House of Representatives for you, Rich. Um, and this was signed by Representative Arero for recognizing your service of nearly 50 years to the town of Littleton. You have been driving
that van and helping Littleton longer than I've been alive. And I just want to thank you for everything you've done for our town. You've trained so many other drivers. I think you've trained everyone who's here in this room right now. Um, and we
really appreciate everything you've done. I've seen him carry groceries up to third floor apartments, go around Market Basket, helping push carts. Uh truly above and beyond. And happy retirement. Next we have a um a vote uh from human
resources. Is Michelle Yep, she is here. Good evening. Michelle Vibert, human resources director. Um it's a tough act to follow. I don't bring exciting news. Um, but as you know, the last couple of months we have been reviewing our health insurance and our plan design for our
health insurance as costs have significantly increased. And one of the things that we have come across is that the plan designs we have been reviewing the proposed features exceed the benchmark which is the group insurance
commission plan and we have been operating under section 2123 under chapter 32B. Because those plans exceed those features we can no longer operate under 2123. We have to operate under section
19. So, my request in front of you is for the board to vote to accept um section 19 under chapter 32B of Mass General Law to discuss health insurance plan design changes. >> Does anybody have any questions?
>> Can you say a little bit what the difference is? >> Um I can but I highly recommend that the email I had sent to you last week that contains the chart in it. Um I don't want to go into too much detail only because that is part of negotiations.
Um I highly recommend looking at that chart. If you want to go in further depth, we can book an executive session. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> That was seen. >> Okay. >> Okay. I'll um move to accept master law
chapter 32B section 19 for health insurance plan design negotiations. Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I >> I >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> We're mandated to do this, correct? >> Correct. >> Public input. Does anybody have anything? >> Hearing nothing. We'll move on to members updates. I definitely >> Mark, you want to kick it off?
>> Uh, sure. Um, so as um the town administrator announced, I'll be doing office hours on Monday, November 24th from 2:00 to 4 in the library. Uh, last week was a crazy busy week. I was at the charter commission. We met with Parks and Lakes, Clean Lakes, was at the
planning board meeting. I attended our regional Aspet Regional Housing Consortium. They have a quarterly meeting over at Devons. um uh where they had um it's a two presenters, one talking about um one from the Boston
area that was talking about how um to get housing built, they basically build cons consensus among the neighborhoods and how um uh that works and another talking about zoning changes that they recommend to make to encourage more housing in town. So, it was very
informative. Um, I have signed up to, well, I put my name in as an applied to be a Chapa housing advocate, which involves 25 hours of meetings over the next six months. Um, most of them virtual. Yay
for that part. So, we'll see how that goes. Um, I wanted to tell everyone the holiday bazaar is coming up on uh December 6th and the tree lighting will be on December 7th. Yeah. >> Thank you, Matthew.
Um Mark and I tooured the or tooured the orchard last week or a week and a half ago. >> I can't remember at this point. Um with um so the Massachusetts Department of of Agricultural Resources is the does an annual inspection of the um agricultural
preservation restriction on the orchard and um Dileia Dashamp is the name of the person who does that inspection. She was, you know, it was she was very very positive about John's like handling of the orchard. Um super impressed with his
cleanup of it and how much he's done with invasives and um trash, you know, junk. Um, she had no concerns whatsoever and she talked a lot to both of us about grants that were available for
infrastructure improvements, some of which may may need to come through um the town, but some of which since he has such a long lease, John can actually apply for. So, it was um pretty encouraging. Um, I attended the Littleton
Conservation Trust annual meeting and the keynote speaker was a guy named Tim Tim Brothers who's the manager at the MIT Wallace Observatory in Westford. And he talked about how light pollution is um changing things. Um, not least of
which the fact that he can't do obser observations of stuff in the sky anymore. But there were a lot of fascinating fascinating information about how lights actually work with your eyes and the fact that in Groten they did an experiment and they replaced some
of the bright street lights with much less bright um yellowower light which has less glare. They ended up using a quarter of the energy and he said that the police insist that those lights are brighter and they can see better than they did before they had the bright
white ones. So, I think it's like and and and it he had some pictures to show like how the glare affected you. It was fascinating. It >> really was. >> Um and there's a lot of stuff that people can do to just, you know, install, you know, yellowower lights with down down lighting instead of
>> 50,000 lumen. >> Yeah. Instead of like bouncing it into the air and wasting the energy. >> Um and then the last thing is um I think many of you saw the news about the giant fire in Ammerst last weekend. Um, it was in a large apartment complex and it
started in an adjacent building under construction. And from what I've read, Ammerst was woefully understaffed and underequipped to fight the fire. Um, and they were hampered by a lack of water pressure. I guess they used a million gallons the first night to try to put it out and they didn't succeed in getting
it out the first night. Um, and I think we are very well prepared compared to Ammerst. Um, but I would love to hear about, you know, disaster preparedness, like what what have we done to make sure that we don't end up in the same situation? I mean, I can't help but
think of the similarity between that complex and what's going in at 550 King Street. Um, you know, what are we doing about gasoline tank storage in the the buildings under construction, which was apparently a cause of a bunch of explosions that caused the fire to
spread much more rapidly. So, um, I would be very interested to hear from Nick and Steel about their take on it and how prepared we are. >> I mean, the fire suppression the new code on fire suppression is unbelievable. Yeah. >> So, that helps. But >> So, why didn't we do Why didn't it work
in this case? >> Is it an old Are they old building? We don't know. I don't know. >> No, they're brand they're very new. >> That's surprising. >> I mean, they were literally under con what? The one adjacent to the one that was under construction. >> Wow. The other thing that happened is everybody in the building evacuated themselves. It was all basically student
college students. Wow. If it had been filled with families or seniors, I think it could have been very very bad. >> Yeah. >> So anyway, >> but I I Yeah, you know, I'm interested in in finding out more about that. That's all I got. >> Okay, >> good.
>> Uh let's see. Um Veterans Day was uh last week. We had a a great showing. It was seemed like the coldest day of the year out there in the in the wind. But um uh we just want to thank um you madam chair and and I know Mr. uh RCRO,
Representative RCRO was there. He gave gave a speech as well. I went off well. It was well attended and it was it was short, you know, got got us in and out of there. So we all a lot of us went over to the VFW with a lot of the veterans afterwards. It was a it was a
good day. Um we reminder that there's on top of a couple other things that were already mentioned. Toys for Tots Littleton um puts this on every year of the police station. So that'll be on December 13th from 10 to 2. Um that's a it's one of
the better ones in this in this area in this region. So um very well attended. Lot of lot of giving and it'll be at the Littleton Police Station as as always. Um I too watch the news outside of you know the Amherst fire but something struck me today you know just kind of
our budget um as we approach this the bud budget season I I I was watching Whitman Hansen uh laid off 23 teachers and administrative personnel um and not just you know with a 1.4 million shortfall. So that's something um just
kind of hits you really think about um how important the stewardship is in the finance committee and the select board and the town administration on how we we get the we get this right with our looking out and I I watch the um
basically the superintendent fell on the sword if you will you know saying that it was his fault and everything and we know that a lot more goes into that than the superintendent when we're when we're working a budget but um So when when we talk about we're in good financial uh
standing and we're we're keeping things in books, that also includes looking out 5 years, 10 years. So when we talk about these these things that we never get hit with a crisis, you know, there that we don't have to uh ever um lay people off.
So um just something that I was I was thinking as I watch that. And we're fortunate that um we we do work well with the with our school department and a lot of other communities that's not necessarily the case. >> Um whether is it's always us versus them. >> Yeah.
>> So um I'm going to piggyback on a few things because most of most of the things I have were were mentioned, but um just mentioning the the toys for tots that is at the police station. Uh it's um put on by the Littleton Police Department by by Chief Bernard and um Representative Vciero. So those are um
that will be there's actually a feeder program to that. On the 7th, Sunday the 7th at Littleton Middle School at 10:00 there is a 10 to 4 I believe is a touch a truck at Littleton Middle School. Uh AG Landscaping is putting it on,
inviting other local businesses to show up and and showcase their vehicles. Uh so kids can go out and do the touch a truck and then head up head up to the lighting the tree lighting. Um, Adam last year, Adam Gentilli owns AG Landscaping. He did his own kind of toys
for tots just at his shop and um he he rolled in with a dump truck full of full of toys for the kids at the police station. So, it's it's really a feeder program for the the toys for tots that uh the police and representative do. Um,
I'll say it because you're too humble, but um the on Veterans Day um the new Veterans Agent really did a great job. It was everything was tight. It was um it was it was well done. It was um you know it was he definitely was uh aware of the weather and and did move things
along quite nicely. But just the, you know, the taps and um in combination with LCTV uh the PA system was great. So, um, hats off to everybody that had a hand in in in pulling that off and the friends of Littleton VFW as well,
friends of the veterans. Um, they sponsored the the lunchon back at the V. And this Saturday, the way that they fund that is by having fundraisers throughout the course of the year, the friends. And this Saturday evening, they're having a trivia night. So, I think there's room for another team or
two. So, if anybody wants to get their trivia on um this Saturday at the BFW, you can contact um actually if anybody's interested, you can contact me and um I'll I'll put you in touch with the uh the coordinators. >> 5:30 p.m.
>> Uh it starts at 6:00, but they tell me 5:30. Otherwise, you guys saw me roll in here at 6:31. Uh yeah, it is at 5:30. Um what else did
I have? We had the bizaar. Thank you. Um Oh, this Wednesday, Littleton Business Association in combination. You going to say something about that now? Is that why you're here? >> I can. >> No, no, that's fine. Um >> talk about the Rotary issues. >> Okay, hold on. Um LBA is is putting
together something um with some other local uh business associations and other businesses at the point at the Coyad Marriott. Coyot Marriott is going to have ordurves. Um, if folks can bring a non-p perishable um non-p perishable items to donate to Loaves and Fishes,
it's a great opportunity for us to stock the shelves and uh help out our neighbors. Um, when was that? >> It's Wednesday night at 700 p.m. >> 5:30. >> 5:30. Thank you. See, >> actually, I'm looking at the wrong
thing. It's Yeah, 5:30. Thank you, Mark. Um, I think that's it for me. Anything coming up from the middle the high school drama department? >> Pardon me. >> The high school drama department have anything coming up? >> I guess something coming up.
>> Why wouldn't you say that? >> Same reason I didn't you didn't do the the veterans agent. >> It's our town, right? >> Our town. Yes. >> Um the 4th through the 7th of December. >> Correct. Wilder. >> Yeah. >> Tickets are on sale now, I think. Right.
>> Yeah. I'm gonna get in trouble. Thanks, Mark. Is that it? >> Uh, yes. I believe so. >> Mark, is Chuck done? >> I hope so. >> Matthew, I have anything else? >> I'm good. Thanks. >> No, did I. >> All right. Um, you mentioned
superintendent. Um, Dr. Kelly Clenchy uh from our schools uh announced his retirement in effective July. I wanted to uh congratulate him and wish him all the best. Um it's his >> yeah he's just been a tremendous asset to the community and he's a big reason
why I think um our relationship is so good uh with the schools in particular. Also wanted to um thank our VSO Michael Wilson um for the Veterans Day ceremony and Jim Rciero LCTV Friends of Littleton Veterans and of course everyone who attended. Um, I
met with the board of health last week, the chair and vice chair regarding um, email and, you know, personal email versus group email. Uh, that was with Matthew. We're going to continue to work with them on that. Um, I attended the
PMBC meeting. Um, they did discuss, um, a question that I think you had, Mark, about uh, whether Shadic Street could get lead certification. Um and uh they said that because they're
not seeking grants for that like they did for the library, they're not um they're not going to it's not going to be leadcertified. He said it would be very difficult to do it retroactively. Um let's see.
Uh I also attended the um dark skies presentation. And I thought the most interesting thing to me, I mean among a lot of interesting things was just the way he defined light pollution, which was light pollution is energy waste, which is such a simple way to put it.
you know, when you think about light pollution, I always thought, you know, oh, it's for the observatories and oh, it's for the tourists out west, you know, but um when you think about it in terms of wasted energy, um which is wasted dollars and um wasted resources,
it's uh it's sort of puts a different spin on it. Let's see. I think that's all I had. Thank you. All right. Is it 7 o'clock yet? Two minutes away.
>> Do you want to give Alan an opportunity since he wasn't here when you started the public input for the Rotary stuff? >> Sure. Public input. >> Should I? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you for letting me come and speak today. I'm Alan Bell. Many of you, I
think, know me. um and um here to speak on behalf of the Rotary that uh we wanted to respectfully request permissions to do the tree lighting, which I understand we need to do this year, so we're doing that. Um and um uh I've only been involved in it about the
past 17 years, but uh Jim Barisano, who would would have made the presentation tonight, but we had an emergency, so he asked me to step in for him. He says he's uh he's uh been involved in this for about 40 years. uh the tree lighting and um as you may all know um we have
the Nshoba Valley Corral, the high school band um free hot cider about 30 dozen donuts this year that we we are ordering um personalized ornaments that the kids can design for the tree and the
um cooperation of uh Littleton Electric Light and Water, the highway department, the fire department and the police. And we've been doing this for a long time. I think you most of you might have seen us do that. And we have Santa with the fire truck lowering down onto the common. So, we're looking forward to
that this year. I just wanted to to make sure if there were any questions or any issues that I could try to address them at this point. >> Great event every year. Yeah. >> I did want to mention two other things. Um, one is that we also do a
Friendsgiving uh lunchon for the seniors that happens on the 24th >> at the um at the U Council on Aging Center, the community center. And also we serve 100 seniors that day and uh
they will also get a full catered meal and uh uh gift bags again this year. Uh there'll be center pieces to give away and other little items and little surprises, but they seem to like it very much. Uh they did last year and we're we're doing it again. So I hope it comes
off as as well as it did before. Um the other thing is that we have for many years um sponsored the and held the Thanksgiving breakfast at the middle school on Thanksgiving morning. Um and um we're able to give all of the net
proceeds from that event to the Littleton Scholarship Trust and so we're very happy about that. We have raffles and things and some some very cool things that people can kind of bid on and raise a little bit more money for that. So >> that's it. >> What time is breakfast? for breakfast.
6:30 6:30 to 10. >> 6:30 to 10. Thanks. >> Scrambled eggs, ham this year. Um, >> and pancakes and pancakes >> and coffee and juice, that kind of thing. And some, you know, really kind
of lame entertainment. >> So, um, >> slow down. >> Don't sell it too hard. >> So, are there any questions or any great stuff? issues. Okay. >> Appreciate all the >> appreciate all the work that you did. >> Thank you.
>> Thanks. >> That's the motion. >> No, not yet. >> All right. Uh, public hearings. Can we Yep. 701? Can somebody read us in?
>> All right. We have a public hearing notice. The Littleton Select Board will conduct a public hearing on Monday, November 17th, 2025 at 7 p.m. in Littleton Town Offices, Room 1037 Shadic Street,
Littleton, Massachusetts, to act on the request for approval of a change of manager under Massal Law, Chapter 138, Section 15, submitted by Energy North Incorporated, 256 Air Road, Littleton, Massachusetts. Days of operation, Monday
through Saturday, 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Alcohol sales 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Sunday 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Alcohol sales 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. A copy of the application may be seen at the Select Board Town Administrator's
office, room 306, 37 Shadic Street, Littleton, Massachusetts. Comments thereon may be submitted in writing to the select board at littletonmass.org or to the select board town administrator's office 37 Chatt Street Littleton Mass 1460 by noon on Wednesday November 12th
2025 or in person at the hearing which we have today. Okay, >> thank you. Uh is anyone here from Energy North >> up there? >> Yeah, please. >> You could introduce yourself. My name is
Ivy Hudson, uh, district manager for Energy North and overseeing the wonderful not open location right now. >> All right. Thanks. Um, you will be the new manager. Is that right?
>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> I didn't have any questions. Did anybody >> Everything seems to be in order. >> Yep. Everything back good. Everything's >> When will you be reopening? Is it just you're waiting for the You're closed until it's rebuilt. It's That's the plan.
>> It's empty. I've been >> It's empty. I think we're just waiting for it. It's It's still standing. Last time I drove by it, we're waiting to >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh any public comment? >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Motion to close the hearing. >> Second. Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew Chuck. I >> Gary >> I >> Matthew >> I >> I >> Karen's an eye as well. >> Okay. Um I will
>> So now we can make a motion. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Excuse me. >> No further deliberation. >> Okay. Move that the select board vote to approve the application for a change in manager for wine and malt off premises license under master law chapter 138
section 15 for energy north inc. 256 Air Road for the hours of Monday through Saturday 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Alcohol sales 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and Sunday 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Alcoholic sales 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Issuance of
license is subject to ABCC approval. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. Chuck >> Chuck's eye. >> Gary >> I. >> Matthew >> I. >> Mark >> I. >> Karen's an eye as well. >> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Look forward to the new bill. >> You too.
All right. Next, we have an application from Zach's Automotive. >> Okay. >> This is another public hearing, but >> right 7:15. >> Oh, it is. It's a little bit later. Correct. >> All right. >> Yeah, we got to wait for
>> We'll have to wait. Yeah. >> Yep. Sorry. >> We're never ahead. So, this one. >> Yeah. Mark this down. Let's see. We can we move on to uh derigible? >> Yeah, we could. Right.
>> So, we'll move on to number five. Uh Derigible Brewing Company has a request for extended hours on December 31st, 2025. Does anybody have any questions or concerns? >> Nope. >> Um I can filibust it for six minutes.
Um, I'll say uh I I noticed that they said that they would have food on the premises, which I think was a question that we had um in previous years. And so that's that's all I can contribute to the filibuster. Anyone else? >> Okay. >> All right.
Move that the select board extend the hours of operation for derigible brewing on December 31st, 2025 through January 1st, 2026 from 11:00 p.m. on Wednesday, December 31st, 2025 through 1:00 a.m. on Thursday, January 1st, 2026.
>> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I >> I >> Thank you. >> tree lighting ceremony. >> Sure. We kind of already had the discussion. >> Yeah, we had our discussion. So, we
could move straight to a vote. >> I'll talk a little slower this time. Move that the select board vote to approve the use of the common for the annual treelighting ceremony on Sunday, December. What is the date of that? >> 7th.
December 7th, 2025 at >> 4 p.m. >> Well, you filled it. I guess I could read that. >> I was Xed out on >> second. >> Moved by Gary. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I
>> I thank you to Rotary. >> Um, next two things aren't quite as quick. >> Calendar. >> We do the minutes. >> We could do the minutes. We could do the application for the common by Barbara Ward.
>> Yeah, let's do the let's do that D 60D. >> Okay. >> Did anybody have any questions um on that application for use of the common as far as standout? >> I I did have a couple of um I raised the
question last time that we limit that southwest corner, the veterans corner. Mhm. >> Um, and I've had a preliminary conversation with Steve just just to see if mostly to ask his opinion of if we put something up there to kind of
delineate >> Mhm. >> how much of an inconvenience would it be, you know, rather than going down that road and having it be, you know, >> right? >> Um, just to kind of get a a first blush from him and he said pretty much whatever we tell him to do kind of thing, you know. >> Okay. Um,
I did kind of do a a screenshot of a of a Google's map and essentially there's a there's a we were standing right on it on Veterans Day. is a a path, a paved path that kind of delineates from Steven Street over to King Street. And I think everything's southwest of that if we I
don't know how we'd coordinate off for this particular event, but that was what I envisioned is trying to um just hold that area in reverence and and you know, and um just don't want to have people
trapesing through it. I don't I don't I mean I I think it's a good idea. I think we should discuss it. >> I think it would require a separate vote if we wanted to change something on the common like physically.
>> Oh yeah. But but for this for this approval we could we could put limits in. Right. >> Can we ask them just ask them to >> be cognizant of cognizant of it >> for now until we can meet as a >> Yeah. Would that be satisfactory? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm just
continuing to beat the drum. I you know, so this it came up. So, it's just another opportunity to have for us to have a conversation. Okay. >> Um I think if we could do that >> that that >> Yeah. >> And this would be would have to become part of our common use policy where anything
west of the small row iron fence that we're going to put in or something, whatever we put in there, we can say and it's a very small portion. It's just that small corner. the point, you know, so it's I don't think it's usually affected by this, but it could >> depending on size of the crowds, but >> yeah.
>> So, >> okay. >> I don't have any problem with putting that request in on their permit request >> more right now. It's more just be cognizant of >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just like with the stakes, right? Yeah. >> Okay. Uh I'll take a motion.
>> Right. move that the select board vote to approve the use of the lower Littleton Common for a Pro- Democracy Standout on November 22nd, 2025 from 10:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. >> Second.
>> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? >> I I >> I. >> Five more minutes. >> Oh, what about the um This is great. We do the schedule for the year. Do minutes. >> Could do minutes. >> Yeah, let's do minutes.
>> Takes a second. >> Um, I found a few typos. >> I found a couple things as well. You You go ahead and get started. >> Under public input section, Mark is designated as Mark Rambolure. >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, that's something to call that.
>> That's wrong. >> There's there's an extra V in his name. >> Yeah, that's wrong. um the Swedish uh >> under 6C under the comprehensive configuration discussion there's a sentence near the end of the second
paragraph where it says that Chuck and Mark agreed with Mark >> and I think that they meant Chuck and Matthew agreed with Mark because I I know I know Mark agrees with himself all the time. >> Not normally. >> Yeah, that was
>> I'm very conflicted on that. >> I can find it here. looking. >> Yeah, it's a second second paragraph and C. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I I remember saying I agree with Mark in that section. So, I think that's >> that's how I remember it.
>> And then the last one I have is I just don't understand the first sentence under the town administrator update. Jim said the call-in center CIS being utilized again for class and comp with questions on discrepancies reported. They're all words and they're all there
in that sentence. And yet, >> what did I say? >> I don't know what you said. >> Like Chad GPT said something. >> Jim said the call-in center. It probably is being utilized again. >> Oh, the call-in center. >> It was It's C O L I N.
>> Okay. Okay. That needs to be that needs to be fixed. Y >> the call-in center is being utilized for class and comp and and is is misspelled as well. >> Okay. >> Okay. Those are the three I found. >> Thank you. >> I had a few um sure. So, under um
member updates um I'm not in there, but I I did give some updates. Um >> Whoops. >> So, I would like those added, please. Um and I can list those out. Um it was
uh condolences for Sergeant Busier. Um, thanks to those who attended town meeting. Um, and that was it. Uh, we don't need to go into the details of who I thanked, I don't think. Um, and
then I had the same question about Chuck and Mark's comments. Possible purchase of extra chairs. Oh, yeah. So, um, under D6D, um, it says, I think when we're talking
about extra chairs and having the tech build a shed, that's attributed to me. Um, but that was you, Jim, that brought that up. So, we just need to change that attribution. the shuttle um the suggestion to have a shuttle from Shadic Street was a
suggestion to have a continuous shuttle just in case anyone's trying to see when we start when we whether we had shuttle service that night. Um and I thought Matthew's comments were not in there either and he had suggested
um reviewing the check-in logistics um regarding to see if there were opportunities to shorten lines. >> That was me. That was that was >> that was you. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> I may have agreed with you, but I think you did say that first. >> That's all I had.
>> So, okay. Gary So, Gary made those suggestions and Matthew agreed with Gary. >> Okay. Anybody else? >> Yeah, I had one and I'm not really sure how to address it. Under 2B, when we were talking about the um senior center,
um um the bond was presented. It was said that it reads total project authorizations were 13.5 million. Final project cost was just over 12. The numbers are kind of correct, but they're also kind of wrong. The total
project bonding authorization was 13.5 and what we're bonding is 12 million, but the project cost was higher than that because it was offset by the stabilization fund. So, what was presented to us was the bonding cost. So, we either need to put bonding in
those words or put in the 12 million what the real cost was or somehow adjust it. And I know this is exactly what was discussed, right? But the way it's worded is actually if people were to read this, they' think the senior center cost $12 million and it did not.
>> So, so did did we when we were in the meeting, did we say project cost? >> I'm not sure exactly what we said, >> but it what what what is actually was being discussed was the bonded. >> It was actually the bond discussion. So it needs to be it just needs to be
clarified and I don't one way or >> can you put up in in minutes like this is what we said but we know it's wrong after reviewing it. >> Yeah. I'm serious like you know if we said project cost and it wasn't project cost but I would assume that the legal
notice that I read would have been vetted by count counsel and must have been correct. It's total bond project costs. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Or total project bond costs. >> So that that's just where I >> Okay. >> Maybe we should approve these when we
see them come back. >> Um if we could have those come back. I think we can review them again once they're amended. >> Can I just add with the Gary looking for the reconfiguration of the uh check-in? I just I threw a couple of things out there and one of them was coming down the hallway and using that side entrance. >> Yeah, that's right. because there's so
so much of a bottleneck >> right under the bleachers there where we have the table set up >> basically everybody goes to those first two or three people right >> right >> so just some sort of a a rework >> and we are talking a once every five year perfect storm right but
>> right >> it is important that we >> but next May might be a good way to there's nothing big on it might be a good way to creep crawl walk run >> yeah good >> idea thank you Yes.
>> Now, >> hey, do we want to approve the other minutes? The October 28th minutes? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. This is the FIN. It would just be a recommendation. >> Yeah, I didn't have any questions on those. >> Anybody have questions on October 28th minutes? >> No. >> All right, let's hear it.
>> Move that the select board approve the minutes of October 28th, 2025. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I >> I >> thank you. >> Uh need a motion to open the hearing.
>> Move that we open the public hearing. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. >> Chuck. >> Hi. >> Gary. >> Hi. >> Matthew. >> Hi. >> Mark. >> Hi. >> Karen. I. The Littleton Select Board will conduct a public hearing on Monday, November 17th, 2025 at 7:15 p.m. to in
Littleton Town offices, room 103 12 Shadak Street, Littleton, Massachusetts to act on the request of Brian Zikim of Zach's Automotive for a Class 2 license to buy, sell, and exchange used motor vehicles at two Harvard Road, Littleton,
Massachusetts 01460. And comments thereon may be submitted in writing to the select board at littletonmass.org or to the select board town administrator's office 37 Chatt Street Littleton Massachusetts 01460 by noon on Wednesday November 12th or in
person at this hearing signed Littleton Psych Board Karen Morrison chair >> okay yeah on up >> evening >> good evening >> Brian Zachim for Zach's Automotive
Great. >> Um, >> can you tell us a little bit about your application, what your plans are? >> Uh, yeah. So, um, I'm the new owner of, uh, well, formerly Miller Automotive, um, Harvard Road, just carrying on
existing licenses. Um, the dealer license or the used car dealer license not transferable. So, just have to apply under my name or the new business name. um just to continue u buying selling you
know used cars legally obviously um so >> legally is good we like legally >> you know >> so just yeah just one of the licenses just just to apply for under the new business name >> okay thank you >> any question >> it's not nothing different than Wayne's
been doing there >> no no it's a specific uh license so can't really do anything besides that >> right >> with it. >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you for continuing to operate a business in Littleton. Same thing that I said.
>> Appreciate it. >> Any questions? >> Um, I have a weird one and it may not be I'm not a lawyer, but can you be the the chairman of the board and and the the president and the treasurer of a of a corporation? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. I don't know why I thought you couldn't, but someone told
me you couldn't. Okay. No, no objection. I this is the second business that I'm the chairman and >> Okay, so fair enough. I guess >> you know >> I hope you pay yourself a good salary. >> I take the big hit, but yeah. >> All right. >> All right. Any uh comments from the
public? >> Okay. Hearing none. >> John Q. >> We have to close the public. >> Yep. Move to close. >> Yeah. >> Close the public hearing. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary. Seconded by Matthew Chuck. >> Hi. >> Gary. >> Hi. >> Matthew. I >> I
>> Mark and Karen >> I >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Motion. >> Is there any deliberation? No. >> All right. Yes, please. >> Move that select board vote to approve the application for a class 2 auto dealer license for Zach's Automotive
located at two Harvard Road, one Littleton, Massachusetts. >> Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew Mark. >> Hi, >> Matthew. >> I >> Gary. >> Hi. Chuck >> I >> and Karen's eye. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You want to talk any more about what
you're doing? I see you have new hour. You're open Sundays now and >> Well, yeah. I'm trying to press you guys together. >> Well, gas is open now. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 7 to 7. Um trying to extend the
repair and inspections to Friday, full day and a half day on Saturday. just been struggling with the with the help. Uh, you know, the guys already were working, they're already on full-time. So, some like the hours that, you know, they want to change. So, I just have to
find a couple extra um technicians, inspectors um to fill that uh extra day and a half. But no, the gas now is officially has been two weeks now uh Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. just to great,
>> you know, give back to, you know, the weekend communities and and then uh yeah, just whatever I could change or, you know, improve upon um just to, you know, um you know, help, you know, the
uh the locals cuz the weekends are, you know, I I have other businesses in the same uh uh same uh concept and I open them Friday, Saturday, Sunday just because Some people work Monday through Friday and the Saturdays are the only
days that they can come in and kind of get that service done or even like fuel up. So, but uh yeah, just just doing a little bit improvement. Nothing nothing drastic, but the help is definitely the challenge. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah, just finding this people.
>> Congratulations and good luck. >> Best of luck. >> Thank you. Um I do owe a check. I don't know who to make it out to or make it out here and hand it to. >> Don't make it out to two G's. Two jeans. >> Let's see. Let's go in that direction.
>> You need a pen. >> I got one. >> You can walk out with it, right? >> Do we need a Do we need to make a copy of it or anything? No. >> Yeah. Yep. It's both licenses.
>> Energy North and this one. >> It went right. I thought it was >> right. Here we go. Thank you. 315. All right. Should we talk about the town meeting schedule? >> Sure. >> Take it away, Jim.
Okay. Um, well, we met with uh Diane, Tony, Lisa and myself met with Tony uh met with Diane Corey and we sat down uh based upon the the requirements outlined with the necessary days. We present to
you, God bless you. uh we present to you the uh uh the timeline the draft of the timeline as we move forward up to the election uh on May 9th and u that is done in standard practice as as you've
done as the years years prior I you know I'm going to if I could stay right up front I'm I'm actually the worst timing and I apologize for a vacation that I that I'm taking um the last week of January. So that's
literally the toughest part for the finance uh meetings. But >> that's uh >> family me first. >> So we have um I mean all the work so to speak will be done up to that point, but I just want let you know I won't be here. >> Okay.
>> You'll be missed. >> You'll miss super Saturday. >> Um I What was the date of it? >> It's the 31st, >> I think. So yeah, >> that's why we have the finance committee on, you know, so it's all on you guys. It's your fault
if anything goes wrong for the next year. Just wanted to put that out there. >> Okay. >> Um, >> no pressure, but do you want us to look into hybrid whether you could attend remotely >> some occasion? >> Yeah, it's going to be tricky. I'm going
to be in um St. the show. So, >> so >> as one does. >> Yeah. >> Right. Okay. Um I just had a question. Is the the where it says the town meeting report mailed to all occupied
dwellings >> on April 21st. Is it like as in mailed as in they're there at that point or because we deliver them to the post office on the 15th. So do we think it's going to take them
six days to process and put them in the mail or do we think it takes six days from to get them delivered? I was just curious. >> Six days basically to be delivered. >> They're guaranteeing the post office guarantees >> air quotes that it'll be delivered by that date.
>> Gotcha. Okay. because that's that's our um looks like he might have something >> when when you have a moment if I could ask a question or two. >> Sure. >> Now. >> Yeah. >> So, the first item says voter petition
zoning articles. >> Yeah. >> Who are you? >> Robert 25 Juniper Road. Uh the first item um identifies zoning articles and I'm thinking that this meeting is open
to citizen petitioned or voter you know submitted all types of articles not just zoning. >> So there's a there's a different deadline for non-zoning articles for citizen petitions. >> So is it listed on the schedule? >> Yes, it's uh it says citizens petition
deadline is March 23rd. It's about four lines down from the zoning one. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And a different question with regard to it's down a few items. It indicates that there's can departments submit articles
to the select board directly as opposed to a multimember group. Just curious >> departments. No. >> Okay. I think it's I thought I saw it listed there but I already made one mistake so it's possible. It's on listing. >> Yeah. I know they are listed >> where >> boards, committees, commissions and
departments to submit articles in draft form. >> Okay. So they can school committee submitted the article for building of >> sacred land. >> Wouldn't that be a multi-member body? >> Um but it is a committee.
>> It's a committee but not a department. I think the question is specific to a department. I was thinking that and I'm asking from a charter perspective because I'm looking for some language to be clarified in something that's being reviewed. >> I've never known of a of a department to
have the ability to submit an article. >> That was my take as well, but I read it here and was surprised and hence I'm trying to get it clarified whether it's in a bylaw or someplace. I just want to get it right so that this charter goes we're doing it correctly there as well.
>> Interesting catch. Thank That would be a that would be a select board article in that case. Our departments, >> right? I mean, and that's and that's a that would be a recommendation from a department because it is a placeholder for you while you >> while you discuss it and determine
whether you want to put it forward under the select board. >> Okay, >> that makes sense. >> Okay. >> Does that answer your question? >> It does. and I'll make I'll try to get it through the charter review thing with
that specific, you know. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's kind of like a step one, step two. I'm not certain that it needs to be listed on your form if in fact, but that's up to you folks. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, we've cleared these dates with the
schools, too, so they know nothing's going to happen on May 5th and May 9th. Well, uh this is as as you can see according to the town code that's that's th those dates are as you can see the 24th day is 411 and and 45th day. So
it's basically sitting there with the calendar. So if the if the we'll just have to make sure that we communicate as uh for certain days um such as >> I I only care about the May 5th date in
the May 9th date. >> The Tuesday >> the Tuesday those are the ones that I'm specifically because we've had a times where >> there's been like a >> soccer conflict something or >> the high school schedules a band concert or something on those dates. We just need to clear that >> those dates are
>> Yep. We will. You want the You want the fifth and the ninth or just the fifth? >> The fifth has to be cleared. >> Correct. >> The ninth they have to be aware of, right? >> Fair enough. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you for that, director. >> Uh, okay. Take a motion.
>> Motion to approve the May 5th, 2026 annual town meeting. Second. >> Moved by Gary, seconded by Matthew. All those in favor? I >> I. >> Thank you.
>> Approval of the proposed January June select board meeting schedule. >> Can I just say I was really sad that I didn't have any vacation scheduled to knock out any of these dates yet. So, uh, I was going to note that the
21st, April 21st is over, um, Littleton School's um, spring break. I don't know whether I'll be here or not, but just FYI. Um, >> we got you. >> And yeah,
>> will you be back by then? >> No, I might go for three months. I haven't decided. Figured as much. >> We'll see. And then I guess my only question was regarding the Tuesday joint meetings.
Um we had talked about moving those to Wednesday. >> They are going to be moved to Wednesday because of Lisa's absence. Um I wanted I would like Lisa to follow up on this please. >> Okay. >> She will make the correction. >> Okay. So should we >> wait to vote on it?
>> Please do that. Okay. >> Thank you for continuing it. >> All right. We'll take that up. January 13th, 20th, and 27th are going to be moved to the Wednesdays. >> Yes. The Tuesday. Yes. >> Okay.
>> And there there's also going to be a Wednesday put in there for a joint meeting for input. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Which >> which Yeah. Why don't you talk a little bit about that? It's um uh it's something that I know there has been
there has been concern that has been expressed in giving um the public an opportunity a platform at some point to to we to weigh in on uh having the finance committee and the select board and the school committee if that's if if
if it's the wish of the uh of the um select board to uh uh to offer their suggest recommendations because the the the the the budget will be done by the end of December in a draft form and it
will be in the final form um in January. Uh but there is that opportunity uh during uh the meetings to for the select board and everyone to receive input. It's it's not going to be a question and
answer. Uh I'm not going to bring all the department heads there. Uh but it's something that if someone expresses I think thank you. I think you know we should you know potentially look at increasing the line item for something in the COA or the fire department or
whatever the case is uh for XYZ. Thank you for your input and that's documented and and we'll we'll continue to um if that is something that uh uh collectively you would like to do then we will we will have to try and find it
somewhere. >> So the idea would be to do that after the super Saturday or before >> I'm trying to figure out where you're talking about >> this this is for department heads to come in. No >> or not a department head? No, no department. It's it's it's just an
input. Give us your input on the on the draft budget. >> It's not a matter of sitting here and saying, "Well, how come you want this truck at this time?" >> It's not a back and forth to have all the department heads there. Got it. >> It's just it's a receiving. Please
>> please um >> uh rec consider increasing this line by this much >> and that won't be decided till Super Saturday. because that's when we actually weigh those all of those things at once together. >> Correct.
>> So the timing here is the idea is that the public has a chance to give their input before things are really set in stone and difficult to undo. >> Exactly. Because you will be getting not only the draft the draft budget will be balanced but
>> right >> but again it's in the draft form. Y >> um and then uh if that is the wish of the board then it will be however you want to to do it. >> So if it's going to be a Wednesday meeting >> after the budget is finished and before
super Saturday >> it's >> after the budget is drafted and before super Saturday. >> Yes sir. >> So it's going to have to be on the 7th of January because every other night every other Wednesday has a has a joint meeting with the with the fincom. >> Okay. Okay. And this is going to also
going to be um FINCOM is also going to be inclusive of of of the meeting also. Yeah. If you would like the school committee, I I'll make that recommendation to the superintendent however you would like. >> Alternatively, you push Super Saturday back a week. >> Yeah, we could. That's true.
>> And put it in there, right? >> Be there. >> That that might actually be a better solution is to put it that in >> Yeah. on Saturday >> on the >> and that puts >> no put move Super Saturday back from the 31st to >> the 7th of F. >> The 7th and then have the joint meeting
on >> the fourth. >> The fourth. Okay. >> And that gets Gary into Super Saturday. >> Yep. >> So that's great. >> It motivates us to get out of there because that'll be >> conference championships for football. >> So that Okay. So that's that's a that's
another I know that there was there was discussion last at at last super Saturday in regards to because the duration um I don't know if that is something that and I know that there was some remarks that were thrown out there and do we have it over multiple Saturdays or do you want to have it on
one um uh we we're going to recommend in order to keeping it within let's say a 9 to2 range um we would have the just really basically the big three or four that day and you got police, fire,
DPW and schools and what who were the smaller ones that were there I think cemeteries uh coun ehs planning that were on on Saturdays they will be moved to another time >> correct one of the other one of the
other other days >> so if that's okay then we'll just keep it 9 to2 and we'll have the necessary refreshments uh brought in for for breakfast and then for uh so we figured we'd go 9 to 12 with
actual with depart with department heads and then break for lunch and and then have the discussion and then hopefully leave by two >> yeah it's optimistic but we'll see what the
budget looks like >> yeah I mean it's if there's a lot of work being done on the front end of this this time a little bit more it seems like But we I know when we're talking deficits and there's going to be a lot of pre pressures every year for this
money. So I I don't know how we had a lot of discussion last year. >> Yeah, we did. >> There was a lot of budget items. We But >> there's there won't be any discussion this year. I guarantee. >> So why not invited?
No, I mean the thing we're mo we're all part of this all the way up to this point, right? >> Um so I think we're going to have a good idea of what >> those hot items are that we need to resolve on Saturday after there's no surprises coming out of Saturday. >> No. >> Or even the month of January. We already
know by that point. It's just a matter of >> you'll definitely know by the end of December. >> Yeah. >> Of where everything falls to to get a balanced budget. But, you know, if we have fewer presentations on Super
Saturday, that's a step in the right direction, I think. >> Okay. >> So, we'll table that and bring it back at the next meeting. >> So, before we leave the whole budget discussion, we talked about actually when FINCOM goes and starts meeting with
department heads that we would go >> and start as well. I assume they're going to start meeting in December. So, we should probably get those scheduled and at our next meeting figure out who wants to piggy back on which ones. >> Okay,
I'll talk to Steve. >> Hopefully, it would make the whole budgeting process go smoother, too. >> Yeah, >> agreed. >> Do we need to vote on the schedule for the select board? >> Oh, I think we just said we were going to wait. >> Oh, we're going to wait because we don't
know about this. Okay, we're going to move around a little bit. Okay, John. >> We have time. We have plenty of time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Uh we've finished D already. So let's
look at E town hall configuration initial phase. >> Okay. Questions? We have all the information. practicalitywise um it's uh it offers the opportunity for
the for the for the office to uh work better in a flow. It offers confidentiality in some respects. It offers uh the uh it's it's it it offers a a better
presentation as someone comes in. You're looking at instead of Uh we're no longer a school and it's we're not standing there. We're not in the principal's office standing at the counter looking for an absentee note or a late atard. >> Tardy. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And um it's something that uh it's uh um it it to to we're going to accept another individual uh that's going to be uh three days a week in in in there which will uh should have a dedicated
should have dedicated office space and to confine the four of us in that in that smaller area uh with circulation issues that are that that go on with air circulation Um there are uh I think it's uh it's in
the best interest of the of the workings within the department. >> I'm I'm sorry. What is all the information? Because there's nothing in the packet. >> We have nothing in the packet. >> You from last week. I'm I apologize. There was the >> I'm not I'm But there was nothing. >> You had something with you that day, but
there was nothing >> it was the reconfiguration of the of your office. >> Correct. Tony's office and Lisa. >> That's right. and the like the change of the conference room. You there was a diagram in the last last meetings packet. >> That's right. >> That had that change or >> That's right. I
>> there was something that you handed out. >> It was a handout. >> It was a handout. Okay. >> And HR, right? >> That's right. >> And um accounting. >> So, but the accounting was being moved to the second floor of the library that
we weren't currently doing. So, I'm not sure what all we're talking about doing now cuz there's there's literally nothing in the packet to look at. So, I understand HR was moving across the hall, but I don't know where accounting is moving. Okay.
>> Walk us through it. Um, one of the one of the one of the the the key things a couple key things that were acting on simultaneously was the was a tremendous level of is there was
confidentially confidential issues, HIPPO issues, personnel issues. There was nothing was confidential in the sense there wasn't any confidential office space >> for Michelle >> I'm sorry >> for Michelle >> HR especially >> from HR or down so simultaneously the
messages were I was recognizing um those issues uh so I engaged the the the team on on both with the HR and engaged with uh accounting because I thought it'd be in the best interest for finance to be all
in the same model. I understand it's only one floor away from each other, but typically it's it runs smoother if it's if it's on one level. Um there was also uh and there was there were issues in
regards to moving HR where it currently is moving across the hall um in a turnkey situation as is and putting them where where uh accounting is. Accounting would go down would go down to the second floor
temporarily and be part of the team that was proposed to be moved up to the second floor. Uh, and with that, um, >> wait, you just said down to the second floor and then moved up to the second floor >> because the team on the first floor, I apologize. Thank you. Uh, the team that
was that was proposed recently of moving from down on the first floor, lands and buildings to move them up onto the second floor. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. And with that and clear message from the from the select board
that will be presented at a at a super Saturday to because of the the cost that we received the bids on. Uh there was still the request of and the camaraderie and the support for each other of accounting moving down temporarily in
the old EHS area and um logistically that has been worked out with it with with facilities on a just on paper at this point and um allowing HR to move across the move across the hall.
uh and part of the recon. So now that now that leaves the vacant HR and but we had to be able to absorb Diane because Diane cannot go go where HR is um because it's confidentiality. You can
hear right through the walls. So that that was that is going to be a secure locked area that's abuing the HR director's off potent the future HR director's office which is currently the town accountant's office and it was proposed that okay if Diane
is going to come has to move across the hall she can move into what is now the the conference room in the office and uh propose that my office Tony would move to where I am, I would go where HR
is. And that wall is just it's not a bear loadbearing wall. It's nothing and it's and it provides an opportunity of as people come in um Lisa straight ahead. There is no there is no counter there or or anything. It opens up the
for air circulation because currently right now uh there is there is it's it's difficult air circulation. You close my you close you close the office door and it's not uh it's not fun. Um it's
uncomfortable. So it's uh and I and my question to the team was and this is involving everyone there's a lot of people involved here because I wanted to get the input from the employees and let them have some opinion on the decision on what's in the
what's in the best interest where is the most reasonable place to you uh in audit to move because there were a lot of as you read from your memos that was in your packet um a lot of the challenges es that the employees were facing.
I know that we're going to be here for at least five, six for for many years to come. Um uh there are certain challenges on the in the lands and buildings with mechanicals and uh there is um
uh there's also I believe there's some architectural ass access challenges um there also. Um so what we would so what's being proposed is they said okay in order to reconfigure the administration
um that's when that work would be done inhouse that would not be that was not part of the bid package or anything like that. It's really basically taking down non-loadbearing walls, opening up a door, and that would go that would go
from where Lisa would be repositioned ultimately positioned, you know, >> horizontally with the hallway >> where with her back to the windows of where it is. And my office would be to the left of her. Tony's would be would
be to the right of her. Diane would be the old conference room. and there'd be a welcoming receptive area for people walking in looking for help, guidance, uh anything like that. So the the initial phase in order to
expedite having HR move and and start because they have their three people there and now they need there's some there's some space that they need to address there. uh there is a lack of space there and a lack of space of
confidential um issues. So that's where we are at this point and um it's something that uh uh I would respectfully request that we can uh move forward with that first phase while the second phase is discussed in better
detail um at super Saturday. >> So accounting would move to the old EHS space. Yes, sir. On a temporary basis, >> HR would Okay. HR would move across into takeover accountings. >> Correct. >> And then you the town the the town
administrators section would be your current space plus HR. >> Yes, sir. >> Is that the gist of it? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. >> I'm disappointed that there's there's nothing supporting this. is there was nothing supporting this change that you're proposing to
blow out HR and make a bigger office for the town administrator's office. >> Okay. >> Um the fact that we don't have anything tonight is again disappointing to me. I think that um I'm aggravated. I It's something that was not before us. It was never
mentioned to us until last week. We had a hand at our last meeting. We got a handout of something that was sketched up. I don't know if it was by you or by Eric or who sketched it up. Um, and we we discussed it to some extent. I was
aggravated. You got aggravated. Um, I don't feel like we're any further along, Jim. I I don't feel like there's air circulation can be treated a number of different ways. Um, I I we eliminated room 307, which is where
HR is now. That was a conference room all set up with LCTV with cameras and everything so that we could do smaller smaller meetings in there. We created a conference room in the town administrator's office for meetings and to be more welcoming. Um why
does the footprint need to change? I mean, Lisa's in a spot that has worked for whatever, six, eight years, whatever it's been. Um, I don't know. I just think I appreciate
you laying it all out to us. I still want to see some design. I also want to see what the actual soft costs are going to be. I want to see um I just want to see how it's going to impact everything. And I mean there there's the HBAC location of the HVAC
with this plan unless I'm telling you otherwise is going to be the same. It's going to be the same circulation whether it's it's blowing I don't even know where it blows right now. Maybe it's in in Tony's office and it doesn't get to your office if you close the door. I don't know how
that all plays out because that that that whole space where Tony's office was before we had an assistant town administrator. that whole front area was wide open. >> Um to the windows. >> Mhm. >> Um I'm not saying that was right or
wrong. We needed to put we needed to put >> I knew HR was new. So we had to create that. >> Not even HR. It was before that when when we hired the first town assistant town administrator, we put a wall up in order to create an office for the the for that >> seat if you will.
>> And that's the one that's right if you come in the door to the town administrator's office. That's the wall that you run into right away where the swinging door is. That office was created. It wasn't there before. >> Mhm. >> Um I I just
I don't see this as a a big priority. I I'd love to have conversations with with um with the team as you call it. Um I'm not sure what you're referencing when you say there are architectural challenges there also. I don't know where there is. I don't know if you're talking about
over at the old library space or >> I'm talking about current lands and buildings. In order for for access there, >> someone has to be notified that there is um someone outside the door. They have to that there is there's no
button like like right here. >> Someone's in a wheelchair. >> So, um there is >> Well, that that is accessible. That is handicap accessible. >> The the the door the door is. But is there a button over there? >> No.
>> I haven't been there in a bit. >> So the solution that the library always used was the accessibility came in through the elevator. So that was >> and that you brought that up at the last meeting. >> That was the accessibility for the library was through the elevator >> and it worked for a while
>> through the the elevator. >> Through the elevator over there. You would come to the elevator. The doors open on both sides. Did you come in >> shift though? >> You come to the first floor, second floor, third floor through the elevator, >> right? Okay.
>> I I don't know. I mean, >> yeah, you go. You guys were at the last meeting. I can give you, you know, I watched the meeting and then got spun up on this stuff, so I I kind of know where I kind of stand on on this, but I'm Go
ahead. >> You want to go first? >> Yeah. I just um I think It's fine that we made changes before. That doesn't mean that that needs that that is how things need to be now. Um I think we have a new team in place in the
administrator's office. I think we have some new personnel since things were last reconfigured. Um in terms of costs or soft costs, um signage I've identified as something that would have to be updated. Um, but
other than that, I think furniture stays as is. Correct. >> It does. Um, so to me, this is one of those opportunities where the select board can um let go a little bit and let the town
administrator um do what is best for the team as it exists today and as it's anticipated to exist in the near future for, you know, our life in the building.
Um, so I I just don't think that this is something that we need to be getting into the weeds of as a body. 100% agree. If we're not spending money, even if it's lost opportunity cost for Eric, to
me, I think the comfort and, you know, security and efficiency of the of the of the town hall employees is is what you should be concerned about and we should be concerned about. And I don't think that we are in a position to micromanage
your move. So, I agree with Karen. So, um I'll say that I was ready to support this when I heard about it, but the fact that we don't actually have diagrams and what's going on, um like I'm still not sure exactly where you're I don't know how much space we're moving
HR into. I don't know how much space we're moving the town accountant into or where or how much space they need. So I I think a little and I also don't know you know we're giving up the town
administrator's conference room with um and with no gain you know there's just a loss of a meeting room so you can if you can justify that that meeting room is no longer needed or something right there just needs to be a little more information in my opinion to make
this I mean I just I don't understand where who's moving where how much space they're taking right? Like a little just a little more into this and would be go a long way. >> I just it's all to me. Um, believe me, I
absolutely do not want to be involved in the weeds on the day-to-day operation of the building. Um, my, you know, as the executive board that oversees the town hall, I'm more interested in efficiency and safety of the employees and access those
you have those three things. Um how you put it together. Um and and also security. I I'm always forget that my wife would beat me if I didn't mention security. No, but so that part of it and when I say security, I
mean um you're right. The HR office when he's sitting there with talk with Michelle about something personal, I think I don't think the wall reaches the ceiling, right? So, not only can the rest of the HR office hear, but anyone that walks in there for business can hear everything you're talking about.
So, that absolutely makes sense to get HR in a better position or better situation. Um, but also any conversations that we have to have with you or Tony need to be in a private space and that if we have to go out and
act, you know, get a hold of um white noise. I mean, I've dealt with these my whole life or music. I you know I don't know what the system is in this building. Is there a system that you can have a ninja system or you can have soft music playing. I don't know. It does it does wonders even just a little bit of
of music. Um you can have fun with that too, you know, people pick their days and what they want to listen to. But um white noise for sure. But I mean all that being said, I'm just get like I said even that I'm getting down into the weeds of stuff I don't want to get into.
Um, so this really comes down about cost and how much do we want to jump over? Okay, town spoke in May. >> Okay, this building is staying here. We can call it 5 years. We can call it 10 years. I whatever whatever that is.
>> Um, so eventually I know in the back of my brain this is going to have to get remodeled or repurposed up to that. What are we what are we allowed to do? 10% of the building. 25. Okay. We're probably going to have to hit that
>> there's going to be a big cost to this if we want to get this right somewhere down the line. If you want to really look at this, okay, what's the 10-year plan? We're going to have to put in x hundreds of thousands of dollars into this building if we're going to keep it
as opposed to spending 18 million or 20 million on another another building. Um, so I'm I'm I like, you know, what I saw. I do like the way that the office is being configured, your space, and I I want you
to have what you're comfortable with your space and where you want your personnel. I think it's inefficient certainly to have Diane across the hall. It just it's disconnected. It's disjointed. Um, I guess my thing would be more of just show us.
It sounds like whatever thing show us what you what you're exactly what how it layout what you're envisioning even the temporary space down um at the senior you know where the senior center was um just so that we can visually see it and we can tell people and we can get kind
of get more on board with it. I I think your concerns Chuck were more based on um well cost obviously what has to come in front of them. I mean, the I'm not going to I'm not going to >> I don't think any one of us is not looking to listen to the employees or
wants to put an employee in a bad situation. We all listen to the employees. We all are are reachable and um concerned. None of us want to get into the weeds. You know, I'm not going to >> get into that. I I just know that on November 3rd, we had we had a packet
which had everything that we thought we we prepared for and we were going to discuss and then we got the handout, which I have no idea why that all of a sudden came up and why it was put in front of us. I I to me, Jim, I'll be perfectly honest with you, this is more
like a land grab by you to grab that office up and and make a a bigger office for the town administrator's office. That's how I see it. >> Okay. didn't state it as is. >> I'm not saying that either. I'm just I I I want to see a presentation. I want I want I don't want to be handed a a
sketch. >> Well, >> that's piggybacking on something else that was already on the agenda. >> No. No. Because it was part of the project. It was part of the bigger project and I did not want to include the any reconfiguration from the the administration suite
included with already which was going to be a six figure construction project by moving land the proposed moving lands and buildings up. So, uh, you know, trying to recognize that and peeling that part off because as I as I had said to the team, I said, "Where is what
you're proposing for for the administrator?" Where that and they they the team turned around and said, "Well, uh, to help cut cost because we know it's going to be, we can do this in house." Those are not loadbearing walls. The counter can come
out in one. You can push it over and that comes out. we can cut a hole there and that's your door uh between the offices and so that's why it wasn't included in the larger packet hence you got and I'm sorry if if if you feel slighted that it it was presented in a
shoddy way but it or or for a land grab but that's not that is not it at all whatsoever it is the goal here is to get HR the confidential space move them down then if you want we'll still move them
down. Diane can come across the hall and that bit that that room can remain vacant. We'll keep it like that. So, can I I just I'd kind of like to also I mean I know there's talk of moving the land use
department, right? But we still end up with a lot of vacant space potentially in the buildings. It would be nice to kind of know what we end what the end goal is, right, for the space and who's going to who what the vision is, right?
Even if land use moves to the second floor, we basically have a vacant first and third floor. Is that the intent? Right? I'm not asking for an answer now, but we kind of need to know that. And to Gary's point, like I'd be a little concerned about moving accountant to the
old EHS part because they would be the only department in an entirely vacant building on that side, right? which also means that we can't shut down that side of the building, but they're the only ones there. So, it's it's just the things to understand and I understand
that it's a temporary thing, but then we have to also define what temporary means. Right. So, >> right. Exactly. >> That's I'm all I'm asking for is a little more comprehensive of a plan that we can say, you know, if you know, if
Super Saturday goes well, this is what the plan is. If it's not, this is what the plan is. This is, you know, what we would envision >> like a two-year plan like this would be this to me it's it's like a two-year let's get this into our budget some of the bigger things. Let's what's the big
vision, you know, with this it >> Well, I thought we were presented with a big vision at the last meeting. >> Well, we were presented with >> Wasn't that the big vision? >> I don't know. Right. That was my >> Well, I'm asking Jim. >> Yes, that was the big vision. >> All right. So, what's the cost associated?
>> Yeah. And I think we all know that we've been told that shutting down, you know, bubble wrapping or what what do you call it? Mothballing. >> Mothballing, you know, entire sections of the uh >> of the complex isn't feasible, right?
We've been told that. So, no, we're not going to be mothballing, you know, big sections of uh Shadic Street because we know it's not going to work. We've been told it's not going to work. So, >> well, we are picking up um conference
room space down that end. There's no way you're not. >> The senior uh the EHS I mean >> that multi-purpose room. >> There's a couple rooms in there that >> school department had a conference room. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, >> there's a lot of there's a lot of space and so did an EHS had the conference
room and so did and then they had this other conference room where they answered the phones and everything. There's space down there. So I I'm not worried about the conference room stuff as much as I am about the obviously buy in certainly. It sounds
like it sounds like you got buy in and you've got your department heads spoke and they had a a say in kind of what this vision that yours looks like. >> It wasn't a my vision. That's the whole thing. I'm supporting what they what because obviously there was a concern
and there was all right and I engaged them and said all right how do we you know you know board of health needs a needs space for for the nurse to be in in close proxim proximity of the director um we promised the the board of
health >> right now with right I know I know what >> the board and the board of health is waiting patiently with a an office for him in which uh there are HIPPO requirements that's necessary. So uh you know I'm hearing I'm hearing those
things. Henry has to go upstairs into the old pox and Rex space when he wants to meet someone to lay out plans and to have a discussion. I mean not not ideal. >> Thank you.
>> Is he not is he not using the old Kimble room that the previous building commissioner? All I know is that's that's where he goes. Whether the other room is because there's no storage down. >> So it's not that he has to, he chooses to. >> The Cooper room has exercise equipment in it. >> No, I'm sorry. The Cooper the um the conference room that's right inside
>> the hallway. >> That's Marin's office. >> It's all full. >> So it was it was commissioner, >> right? It was Ed's before. Yeah, exactly. >> Why don't >> he's in a cubicle? I can't stand empty space and we knew library moved out. We
took we filled that space and a lot of that was non-cost. I mean a lot of you know it was on our business time so it's on the taxpayer dollars but I know Ed Mullen and a lot of other people park and wreck too put a lot of manhour into >> creating that those spaces the small
things that you're talking about >> um with with the thought that something probably was going to happen with this building. Well, it's we're not. So, 5 to 10 year plan. Um, you've got you you have a vision and now it's just up to us
to determine how we can cost plan this out over the next few years. Um, but first we got to get on board with the shortterm stuff which you're talking about would be in the next year or in the next six months, the next three months, four months. Well, at the very
least, um, >> you know what? You know what? Then then >> forget about MySpace. >> No, you're getting a negative vibe here because I want to be able to No, listen. No, no, no. And I'm not saying, and I don't mean it to come across it poorly,
but then my goal is to make sure HR gets their confidential space. That is the number one goal at this juncture. So, let them make the move. move. They've got the logistics to be able to move accounting down. Let them make the configuration. Let them make the shift.
And you know what? We'll we'll work it out. We'll work out we'll work out. >> Can I ask why accounting was moved to the EHS base rather than the park and recck space that's vacated? >> Um well, >> because there's already offices over there. >> Yep. And I gave and I gave um accounting
the auction. You tell me. And we also have to take in consideration it may go south on Super Saturday. So this may be temporary. So, I just want everyone to understand what's at stake here and um
and I I believe what what is going to uh there is this they could adapt either way, but I and I but I think that they'll they could potentially be moving to the old pox and recck space, use Alicia's office, uh maybe and Tim's
office over there and where he and Cass uh previously were maybe in that in that general area. That could potentially be it. But they're also looking at options of um Liz's old office uh and those and
those offices over there also. But they're too spread apart there. So they and they would go up in uh then in parks and wreck as a temporary basis then. What? >> I don't I'm trying to remember because I I did talk to them when I was looking in
their space trying to see visualize, you know, what the what it would look like if HR was in there. Um, and I can't remember why they said, but they did say that they would be they preferred EHS. >> I don't know why.
>> I would prefer the library just for security purposes. That's just my personal take. There's no one else on that side of the building. I would really rather not have one department on that side of the building by >> and connectivity too, >> right? >> You know, it's much easier to go back and forth.
>> That's just my personal school side. >> But >> no, I appreciate that concern. That's safety that that's >> if they feel strongly about it. I'm not going to sit here and bang that they should go that way, but it's >> I think the fear is it's one thing. I think if it's if they if they knew if
they knew that the the time frame is finite, that's a that'd be a different conversation. But because there's the potential that that's home, you know, that's it. So, um
maybe it's being looked at in a differently. So, >> so I would say um if anybody wants to walk through it, it's really helpful.
Um, for example, there's a there's that small room right when you walk into accounting that you don't notice. And that's where that creates a lockable file area for HR that they don't have right now. It's a room, you know, they don't just lock right now. They just
lock up their file cabinets in a wide open space, right? They'll have their own lockable um >> filing room. Uh no, no, there's a little room there before there. >> Really? >> Yeah. Um I just encourage anybody who is
having trouble visualizing it to um to stop by and look around a little bit. It's it helped me a lot to to understand that >> to understand things in a way that Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Drawings can't um
>> I'm at a point I, you know, I'm not going to sit here and disagree with your plan because I could do that all day. We could say, "Oh, I don't I like this here instead or this year." It's not I don't work here. I don't I'm not in this building every
day. Well, I don't try to be in this building every day. And you do and everybody that works here does. So, I appreciate what you're trying to do. Um, and I'll get back to it as the policy board and where I'm more what is the cost of all of this. Um, if we have some
glaring thing presented to us ADA wise or security or all those things I mentioned, efficiency of access, all those things, then sure, we might I we should all have something to say. But I cannot get down into the weeds in this and I don't think we should until you
know you present this to us at the budget meeting and we weigh it or pieces of it or what we think it outweighs compared to other things. Uh recognizing that this building is here, this building is not going anywhere for the next 5 to 10 years. Just simply not
unless something really crazy happens and you know a billionaire wants to put a building in for us. So, I'm that's where I'm at. And I know that's >> I'm not saying I'm disinterested because this stuff is very important. Where people where people work is important.
>> Um, and I know what we have right now works and that's not what we're talking about. It just works. We want to be better than that. We know what building we're working in. We're this old freaking schoolhouse sauna. >> Yeah. I mean, it's >> igloo, whatever you want. And I
>> depending 10 ft office and I and I I appreciate the perspective of yeah you know the way it's configured now the way where people are you know works well it works because it has to work that way it wasn't an option
>> and so when people are uncomfortable it's no we're blessed to have the senior the just vacate the building we're blessed to have a new library with library vacated park and wreck vacated schools. Okay. All right. We didn't want
this necessarily wanted this older building for this to repurpose it, but here it is. It's a beautiful brick building by all accounts on the outside. Let's start the process of making this work for you guys. So, if if it's talking about taking down cubicle walls
and moving space around and everyone, you're I I'm not going to get involved in that part of it. I I just simply don't think it's um you know it's it's not in my purview to to do that. So that's that's where I stand.
>> I appreciate your suggestion, but you I mean I I value everything that you said, but it's more of how we got to this point and the you know kind of being thrown on you. sound like you're a little more that is what bothered you more than anything was it kind of got presented
the way it got presented or not presented and I >> more holistic want presentational justifications you know >> I I would also argue for thinking bigger too right like uh half of this building
is vacated and we're talking about building people small offices so that they all can be together there's three floors they can spread out on and no one's on top of each other. So why are we packing them all into this little tiny area unless they really want to be in that little tiny area? Like let's
think bigger. It doesn't necessarily make it more expensive. We're not necessarily putting up more wall or that many more walls, right? Let's actually think about how we want to use the whole building, not a floor of a building because we have a awful lot of empty
space that seems like a waste to heat and cool and not put people in it. so that we can put everyone in little 8 by8 offices. >> Have you looked at the school department at all for the time ministry's office? >> Just I'm just >> Yeah. No, good good question. Good
question. Uh no, I didn't. Uh the only time I uh looked at that with the team is when the as as Fred would call it, the aquatic center uh occurred. Um uh we figured that they would have to all have to go
back um and or parks and wreck at least because it really affected parks and wreck and also and so we were thinking okay if you guys don't are not going to be moving there how about the old school department
space I I just thought me being our sweet being over in the school side at this point that's that's got too far away because I like to have HR next to me typically I like to have the finance team also but they're says, "That's
fine. Could use the exercise, but I I I respect everyone's perspective, but um >> I mean, I'll I'll come in one day this week and one of you guys can >> Yeah. >> Can you walk about?
>> Yeah. So, I guess where do we stand on are we going to take a vote on the no cost part of this? >> I'm in favor of the no cost part of it as as >> a way to look at it. >> I I agree with Chuck. I'd like to actually look through it and see a little more details, but I'm not opposed
to it. I just like to really see what we're doing. >> When do we meet again? Before Thanksgiving, right? >> 2026. >> When did you You probably wanted to start this next week. >> Um,
at least How about this? If if I would respectfully request, how about at least moving let the logistics continue to move accounting and HR? Can we at least agree to that?
That is just a matter of moving offices and technical stuff and technology and everything like that. And it checks off the box for confidentiality. The big box for HR.
>> I'm actually okay with HR being moved. I just not sure where you want to move account. I mean it Yeah, it's where you end up moving accounting to, right? >> That's the >> Well, it's either going to be EHS or pox and wreck. And they and I want them to be able to feel comfortable with their
selection and understanding that that could be their permanent home. How about we meet on the 24th? Uh we can do it hybrid and only on this topic so Jim can walk everyone through
and that'll give folks time to come back in and look around too if they want to. >> This Friday if you wanted >> Yeah. I mean that's fine too. But um I'm just thinking you know the next meeting isn't until December 8th. Um
and by then, yeah, we're really in the thick of budget season and there's a lot of other things going on. >> Right. Thank you very much for taking the initiative on that, Madam Chair. >> So, um that would be my preference is for us to meet before December 8th um and sooner
rather than later so that we can either you know stop talking about it frankly or you know, let them get on with it. So, is it possible for those that want to see come in and kind of walk do the walk through before this Friday?
>> You could post for this Friday. >> Yeah. >> Tomorrow, Monday, right? >> 24th. Is that what you said? >> Or we could just put I mean, since this is going to be a virtual with a one item agenda, it can be as soon as we can get people to walk through, right? And we just do a virtual. >> So, how much time do folks need to be
able to come back? >> Objection saying, "Well, we this we think this is going to be a problem. It's in. But hopefully by then we can have you can have talked about some of those concerns. At least we know what we're up against coming into the next one item agenda. >> Say just put it on the 24th. Just
schedule the 24th where it's virtual in person. >> Does that work? >> The 24th is fine. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> It's fine to do. >> So let's convene on the 24th. >> Okay. >> Um let's mark it as a hybrid and we'll >> What time do What time would you like? >> Seven.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> All right. Thank you all. Thank you. >> More fun and games. Uh item F, town common policy discussion. >> Mark, this is yours.
>> Oh, good. Thank you. Uh so based on um the feedback from the last meeting, I took the uh the old policy and drafted this new one. It has been vetted by
police, fire, DPW, and town council. Um so, um the goal wasn't to vote it today. It was just more to introduce it as a potential change. Um so,
um there were a few items that town council added. Um we talked uh towards the end we said like uh if we wanted to have um um a number of people um for you to have
a permit. Um they said if you they added that if an event organizer reasonably expects attendance to exceed 25, they're required to submit for a permit and they have to give us at least 10 business days to approve a permit. Those were things that town council suggested we
add. Um they weren't necessarily saying the 25. They just um Yeah. Are they based on that off of other communities or >> So actually I did I did a bunch of research on this this afternoon. >> Gary did as well. Yeah. >> And it's all over the place. But the the
the usually it's either everybody needs a permit, there's a size requirement, or there's some weird one like Lexington. Um you need a permit if you're going to pick it. speech making, marching, holding of vigils and signs, active
communication or expression of opinions or grievances. >> Seriously. So, if it's a bunch of people put a lot of fun in if it's a bunch of people hanging out, they don't need a permit. If if you're organized and you're, you know, if the world, then you need a permit. Um, >> if the discussion turns to politics,
then you run to town hall. >> So, I don't know. But, um, >> you're having too much fun. I think reasonable size I think reasonable size is is a is as good a as a good a metric as any. I don't think we should get into if it's politically permit. >> No.
>> And it's really if the because most of these events >> um in question are you don't know it can be anything from anything a plan sale to you know what's what we just approved. >> Well, we're expecting what it's really that's the number you're looking at.
What are you expecting if we're going to talk about numbers? >> Yeah. Re I think and I think you know the no kings the probably the first one they had no no clue now that they're doing the fourth one I think they have a pretty good idea how many people are going to show up like you you know we know how many people are going to show for the tree lighting
>> but I mean what are you so I don't know what how many I didn't go out and count how many people show up to the last one but what would you guess >> couple hundred >> so that's probably worthy of a permit to me >> definitely right >> yes >> if we're going to do if we're going to
talk a permit I'm not saying I'm in favor. >> I think if 200 people show up on the common, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them to pull a permit. >> I don't either, but I think this is where we this is where it gets difficult in practicalities, right? There were 200 people there. My guess is total over the course of two hours.
>> I see. Okay. >> And I'm not >> So, you know, does that count? Do they need a permit even though, for example, there were only, you know, no more than hypothetically 50 people there at any given time? I'm sure there were at this point, but you know, so
that's that's where I have trouble with with having a a numbers. >> What's our concern that when you water this whole thing down? What is the concern? >> It's safety, right? >> So, what do you think is and what does
that mean? Just to say safety doesn't mean anything. >> Well, we have to assign a police officer at a certain number. What What are we just saying? Just pull a permit because you got 200 people there. Well, >> so yeah, I think if >> what's that mean? Are we assigning a police officer down there? >> If there are 300 people on the common, I think that that LPD would want to know
because they probably want people there directing traffic, making sure people aren't speeding, making sure kids aren't running out of >> just have a presence. >> That's fair. That's >> And definitely I think um DPW is worried about people shoving stuff in the ground,
>> which is totally valid. >> Um >> that's a little separate though. We can say if you're putting >> Yeah. Yeah, we we can but >> anything in the ground. But >> and so in that case, I would say that to avoid some of the concerns I have in
terms of unnecessarily um giving folks anxiety about correctly assessing how many people are going to be there in advance or they're going to be in trouble. I think we should set the
number fairly high so that beyond what we would normally expect a gathering to include. You know, at what point do we think we really need to devote extra resources? And that I think should be our number. I think it's a lot easier to know whether you're going to have 200 people than to know whether you're going
to have >> 2550. >> Yeah, 50. >> Agreed. Um it's no fee for the permit, correct? You just have to file it. And what about um what did town council say about insurance?
>> Uh you cannot require insurance for political gatherings. >> So or general. >> Okay. Well, they're getting a permit to use the space, >> but but the free speech aspect of it uh means that you can't require insurance
>> if they're gathering for political events like >> Okay. But what this is for throw out the word political. No, no, but it's a gathering for free speech gatherings cannot require insurance, >> right? So, we could we could require the plant sale to have insurance was my
interpretation, but we can't require um >> the no kings >> the no kings. >> Why? >> It's there's no constitutional right to have a plant sale. >> Okay. Do we require them to have insurance as as it stands right now? I don't think so. >> No, we don't.
>> Okay. Um, >> so our old policy suggested that we may require insurance. Um, the new policy doesn't mention anything about insurance because I don't think there's any groups that we would require to have insurance since we can't have the first amendment
ones. >> Yeah, I don't even want the larger of the mine is what is the what is the purpose of the insurance? What do we work if somebody right now walks on the common and they trip and fall over X a tree falls and hits them in the head? What?
Whose whose policy is that? Is that the right? Okay. >> Um, so we're trying to say what that you need to get your own insurance if you get to a certain number, >> but that'll be for their people. I think >> it like isn't like a writer. I mean, it
sounds like it's not there's really >> it's either going to be some sort of a free speech rally or it's going to be a nonforprofit that's doing some sort of a fundraiser or like Rotary did the the POW tent sleepover thing one night and
>> it's a fundraiser. >> I mean, we're getting into the specific events, right? I do think if we just talk about I don't think the to me personally, I don't think the insurance thing is is necessary. Now, in fact, I just said that on TV. The next thing you know, something's going to happen, right? But,
>> right. >> Um, and the town would be I I'm just trying to get around the town's going to be liable to some degree regardless >> if something happens on the common, whether it's >> society. >> So, so what if what if over a certain size we just ask them to sign a release
and say we we're going to indemnify the town from any damage. >> Is that part? >> I don't know if you can do that or not. Well, if they want to use our space, they have to agree to some terms, right? >> But you're asking the organizer to agree to terms for the people that are there. >> So then they assume the liability.
>> So maybe they should get insurance, right? I don't >> then that chills that's chilling >> as well. >> Here's the thing. If if we're talking free speech, I wanted just to kind of look at it as everything. But if something happens to someone on our
little thing common for a free speech thing, then we should probably have some liability. That being said, we should probably also have the right to have LPD there if it gets to a certain number because that increases the potential of someone
falling under the road at 119 in a in a car hitting them or which a car insurance probably have to pay for that. But in general, I >> Yeah, but you can sit here and do the what ifs all day. What if someone like, you know, what if I was there and Chuck pushed me into the road? >> Yeah. >> And and stuff, but you know, the grounds
were fine. There was no trip hazards. It was nothing like that. But >> the attorneys will be >> just gave me a little show. >> Okay. >> Want to go for a walk? >> I guarantee I'll be the only one coming back. >> Okay. >> Um,
>> yeah, there's no playing in traffic clause on your contract. So, we've got >> um Yeah, I I tend to agree with Gary. I don't I don't think um
it makes a whole lot of sense to require insurance. Um and I in terms of um releases, I don't I don't see how that works practically speaking. >> I mean, we've done it
>> super effectively. >> I've been, you know, go four-wheeling at a big company that does four-wheeling. You go up there, everybody on the party has to sign a release before you get here, you know. Yeah. >> So, it is a thing, but I used >> That's a private thing, right? That was a private business, right? >> Yeah. So, I'm not
>> paintball or >> Yeah. I mean, to little like jungle gyms and you had to sign a release for birthday party. >> If somebody said they were going to set up a bouncy house on the common, then I would say, "Okay, now we've >> now we've got we've reached a new level of something." But, >> right. Um,
>> well, it's just like when we have bouncy ounces at what October Fest. >> Yeah. So, >> and they have certificates of insurance%. >> Okay. >> So, people standing on our common, the freedom of speech,
eating sandwiches, whatever. >> In a bouncy house. >> Not in a bouncy house. Anything in excess of a bouncy house or a trampoline or >> drinking a really hot beverage. >> A jumping jack. >> Drinking a really hot alcoholic beverage. >> I
All right. So, let's just I guess let's stick to this what Mark has put together. Do we want to put a number in here? And what what is what are people >> I I don't I think Karen's idea of putting it relatively high >> 150 people. >> Yeah, something like that. >> So, I'll reach out to uh Chief Bernard
and see what he thinks they they would when what number he thinks would alter the police behavior >> for the day. >> That's a good call. >> That's a good idea. >> Okay. because that that's important because that that would be the number that we want the permit if if he's saying if they get over 150 whatever
this group is whether it's a >> it's not whether they're going to put a detail out is whether they're going to start patrolling the area more frequently or do something >> or even add add a body >> right >> okay >> so I will ask him what that number should be >> great >> thank you >> um so the rest of it
>> and I I don't think we should vote this tonight >> but you did a good job I mean the open flames obviously a lot of the other communities had Um, I don't know how Lexin got away with that one. That was one I missed. I didn't That's the most unbelievable. Literally the cradle of our country,
>> right? >> Andover Andover requires Andover requires a release and ins and proof of insurance. >> Yeah. So, I wonder if something happened in Lexington where this, >> you know, maybe something in 1776. Maybe
>> you were there this summer >> and now it's time for the airing OF THE GRIEVANCES. NO, YOU CAN'T. YOU NEED A PERMIT. >> And put the festival's bowl in the ground. >> It's got to be on a tripod. >> All right. Um,
>> is the Are the stakes in here somewhere? >> Yep. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. I didn't have any other Yeah. The only thing that I I had a question about was uh was the numbers. So, the other thing that uh town council
was questioning if other organizations would have to do a permit like the board of health, but I couldn't actually come up with when the board of health would have to do a permit. Um because if like a food truck would was there, they would already have to be permitted. They wouldn't be permitted by this one of the
>> So, if anyone has >> Yeah. And I did look our regulations do allow uh food trucks at the common already. So that's not something that would be an exception. >> So does parks and wreck have to do a permit for October Fest on the common if there's more than 150
>> park or >> uh no park and wreck wouldn't have to because we exclude town organizations. >> Okay, good. >> So Veterans Day doesn't need a veterans agent doesn't need a permit. >> Um so no grills. >> No grills. >> No bonfires.
>> Yeah. I Yeah, this is good. This doesn't I don't think this is limiting this is keeping this is keeps in the line of keeping people safe. Um it's not hindering um we're not I don't think approaching
any first amendment issues here. The biggest first amendment issue would be requiring a permit for a certain number. >> But that should solely be based on safety. And if we're getting our top safety officer in town to say >> yeah if things got this big we would need we
>> that does seem defensible. Yeah. But once again, we should keep in mind he could say no if anybody over 10 people, right? >> So we've got a I think we kind of set on at least a hundred, but even maybe a more than that because that's a good size space down there. >> That's a lot of space.
>> 100 people would barely fill up. There's probably there's at least a couple hundred for tree lighting, I would say. >> I'd say. >> And there's a lot of common. >> They said they're buying 360 donuts. Well, it's a good good >> because each kid takes I need 40 of those. So, >> there's nothing responded already.
>> I've already put you put in your request. >> So, there's nothing really bigger that we do on the common besides >> I think the tree lighting, right? >> That's about as big as I don't think you could do anything bigger. >> Some of us will be there. Let's count. Let's just do a that because that's the most ridiculous possible thing you could have.
>> Let's see what that looks like and what the That'll give us an idea and I'll I'll personally count every I'm going to hand everybody a number. We're going to be up the tree looking down. >> Take it. Take this. Take this number. Take this number. >> In terms of the um veterans area, um if we wanted to protect that within
the policy, I could see two different ways of doing it. One would be to say, >> you know, stay off of the area that's designated >> or be respectful of or we redefine, >> we separate the common from the veterans
corner. exclude the Veterans Corner from the common bas. >> Right. So that >> they'll be putting stones and stuff. >> Yeah. So your common permit by definition does not include >> Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um >> I think putting like a paragraph in there saying, you know, be respectful of
this corner. Don't use it. Don't enter it. If you, you know, except in a respectful manner, that's probably enough for anybody who reads this policy to be like, yeah, that's cool. >> Yeah. because miscreant's going to miscreant no matter what. Right. >> Right.
>> Yeah. And I think we need to look into ways to make it um easy for folks to identify even if they haven't lived here >> for a long time. You know, anybody walking up from anywhere would be able to say, "Oh, >> this is different than that."
>> Yeah, it's it is definitely pretty obvious. >> So, um Okay, great. >> Okay. So, I'll work with you on language for that. I'll work with the police chief on the number and other than that we're fairly satisfied. >> And Chuck, you're going to keep looking into >> physical.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Let chief know. >> Yeah. >> What our board's thinking so he can at least understand that we're not talking 10 people, five people and really want to make this as >> open a space as possible. >> What does that mean for the police?
And and on Veterans Corner, Chuck, are you going to is someone going to look into like if we're going to put fencing up or whatever in the cost and who would be I'm just wondering as we're approaching budget season if we need to say, you know, how big it is or we're going to get donations for it or
whatever. >> Be able to get donations for it. It should just be something we're aware of and planning for now. >> I'll get some information from Steve as to what would work best for his guys. You know what's going to >> You're not going to be annoying enough to pick up and put down. So it have to be almost like a gardening little
gardening black fence. >> Yeah. See, but then I tripping hazard. >> Yeah. >> Folks will just walk right into that. >> Maybe maybe it's some post. >> Claymore all the way around. >> Claymore mines. That's where I'm going. >> Those are good. >> You don't want people tripping.
>> Maybe some posts. Some chains just to truly >> with really sharp spikes on top. >> All right. So we won't do that. But >> tiger pits maybe. >> Ooh, >> a moat. >> Just be respectful. >> Be respectful of the space. How's that?
Let's get back to that. >> Okay. >> I wonder um I can't visualize the space, but it would be worth thinking about whether um shade tree committee had ideas for natural barriers, >> low greens or something like that. Yeah,
>> I can ask I'll ask that question. >> Yeah. Uh, okay. Mr. Administrator, update us, please. >> Chairwoman, >> what's that? >> You still here? I'm still here. >> Um, well, uh, some quick updates. Uh,
here we have uh, as a result of uh, Mr. Rambacher reminding uh myself uh last week about the request about DOT with the great road and King Street speed limit reduction request. I sent an email out on last Thursday or Friday and I
heard back Friday morning from DOT um and uh they apologized for the for the delay but uh they are going to um they informed me that all the speed data has been collected and will follow up with me this week uh with their findings
and recommendation before uh DOT formally requests to revise uh revise anything with the state traffic engineer. So that is that will that looks like that's going to that loop is going to close this week. Um >> Jim, if I may, do we we have full
control over this though after that after that is done. D says here's the situation. Here's our recommendation. We still have control as a select board on whether to follow through with their recommendation or not. >> Yes. >> Okay. Just want to make sure that we're not because we we opened up a can of
worms now and I just they might come up with some I don't know. I have no idea what to expect from them at this point. >> Right. Neither do I. There's no indication from the communication one way or the other. >> But are we allowed to go above and beyond if they say X. That was I guess what I was going with it.
>> Probably not. >> We can't go beyond their because they have to get the blessing also from the state engineer, traffic engineer. >> Okay. >> So budget uh as you know that we have been meeting with department heads on a
regular basis. We have started last week and uh we will be done the first round uh with the department heads and there will be a round two uh in areas that we the finance team has made some uh we've
made some um some comments some u made some notes in particular areas. So, we will understand uh because we there is that gap that we're going to have to uh that we're going to have to close. Do the best we can to close. Um
Shaker Lane pre-qualification committee. Um last uh week the scores uh the committee was provided score sheets to rank uh to score the eight uh companies that submitted on who would
be interviewed >> and uh it was decided at today's meeting that uh of of the eight six will be interviewed and typically it's three uh and the reason why it's six is those six
were pretty tight together numbers wise. There wasn't much of a gap. Three points here, one point there. >> So, but then from number six to seven, it was over 40 points. >> So, those last two dropped off.
>> Uh and we are do we are doing that. Uh the Mr. Catalos company is finishing up the project uh between obviously the tennis courts are all done uh but with the with the baseball field and uh it looks it looks phenomenal >> really good.
>> It looks beautiful outstanding job and uh also speaking you already mentioned it earlier u Mr. Wilson about the town clerk. Uh thank you to the superintendent um and also the Justin the chairman of the school committee the
town clerk working together with getting the approval the authorization going forward to build a shed the back of the school. So that will be a place for storage at this you know for for anything. So because I know that that was it's it's the wish of the select
board for us to continue to have spillover opp you know in case that you know that that occurs. Uh so now it's a matter of looking at expansion with the purchase of clickers which is uh the new uh for new clickers which are additional
ones rather uh which is in the town clerk's budget and also um uh looking at um chairs because there's right around especially the springtime meeting you have a lot of events renting a lot of
chairs. So, we want we're thinking of maybe do we purchase our own that that'll be the storage for those. So, kudos to the town clerk and the school build and the uh school committee working together. Uh tomorrow night for uh conservation commission the the public hearing is going to be held for
the docks of Long Lake and that uh that situation. >> Can I jump in for a second? >> Of course you can. >> M just a quick question on the chairs. I know that there was some back and forth on whether or not we could use like the mezzanine behind where we sit at town meeting. >> Yeah.
>> Where we see the flag and scoreboard and all that kind of stuff. Up above that there's stairwells on either end of that mezzanine, if you will. >> It's a huge weightlifting. >> Yeah. Used >> for the the old high school gym. Um, is there instead of us building a shed,
is there the possibility of us getting finding out what we need to do in order to use that space for >> How do you get up there? >> Either side there's a stairwell that goes like this. But there's like up there it's probably 20 foot wide up behind where we sit 20 ft that wall.
Then there's like 20 ft of space >> to the back wall where that used to be where all the universal was all the weightlifting for all the sports. That's used to live >> polling machines. >> So, I know the space I but I have to assume it's being fully utilized or something. >> It is. I think it was taken out. I I don't know. >> I don't even know if it's still there.
I'm just saying that's how that's what used to be there. >> Yeah. I just want to ask if we can At one point somebody made the decision, no, we can't store stuff up there anymore. So, I don't know if that was the principal. I don't know if it was the superintendent. Was the fire chief. I have no somebody made a decision and there was nothing being >> definitely a lot of space there >> because we used to go back there would
coach basketball and stuff and if that's you store all your gear back there rather than all the way home >> the teams go up there and huddle before that >> maybe if it's not flammable you know maybe if it's just chairs they might be okay with it versus >> random >> just a thought rather I mean
>> you're full of thoughts today aren't you >> I thought he was going to go with like O'Neal cinema O'Neal cinema type chairing for the It's surround sound >> just to draw people out, you know. >> Um, also wanted to uh to let uh to let you
know that uh LWD, the board of health and lol companies have met last week uh to discuss about dismantling the plant >> over there. >> Game on. >> Game on is right. And uh as I I think
you you all are aware that the application will be submitted for the first uh for a portion of phase one for the planning board for site uh for site plan review that should be uh at some point any time now uh because of the
December uh planning board meeting and uh so then then the commercial component is is going to be the first thing presented. Ed portion that's along the street that's going to have the commercial on the and then residential on the top.
>> Y >> and then immediately behind that that site plan design that submission is going to be a second submission of the 309 residential units in a different portion of uh >> the back left there >> correct
>> of the back left. So that's that's a continued uh work in progress and uh that's it. I believe that plans for the December 15th planning board meeting. >> Is it the 15th? Thank you. >> It's a It's a Monday meeting. Yeah. >> Oh, it is. >> Yeah. >> That's out of character, right? Usually
the Thursdays. >> Yeah, it's a special meeting. >> Oh, they had a special meeting. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Thank you. >> Motion to adjurnn. That's >> all we got, right? >> That's it. >> I think we're done. >> That's it. >> Second.
>> Moved by Matthew, seconded by Gary. All those in favor? Bye. >> Bye. >> Thanks everyone. >> Stay safe folks. >> Good night.