All right. Good evening everyone. This is the uh community preservation committee meeting of uh November 19th, 2025. Um we have a quorum. We have um there are four of us in the room and one
panelist is remote. Um I want to start off by welcoming Sanjay GA who is our newest um he's going to be the rep from the finance committee. So welcome Sanjay. And I do apologize. I didn't mean to email you
earlier but when we skip a meeting I feel like I have less time to because you think oh I have plenty of time to do things and then all of a sudden it's like oh my god we have to be there tomorrow. But um I will send you some information um on the on our committee later.
Um I do have some agendas if anybody wants one. Want one? >> Um let's just start off with u you know regular administrative news and mail. I do have a couple of things. Um
the community preservation fund has been announced how much money we get for the state match this year. Um it's a 16.9% match. just started. >> Um the match came in at 16.9% and we had
estimated 15.9%. So it was pretty pretty close. So we will get 122,900 922,397 this year. Um that's based on revenue of $725659. So a little bit less than last year, but
we had less revenue as well. So um last year it was 18.06% and this is the lowest the lowest year so far. So um there's a few reasons for the record low uh the decline in the
real estate activity because that's how CPA is funded is by real estate transactions. um lack of surplus state funds, which is I mean, I guess obvious to us all. Um and there are more CPA communities, so
the pot doesn't go as far. Um I think they're up to 200 communities now. Um so, and it's the big ones, Boston and Worcester and Springfield that take a lot of the take a lot of the revenue. So, the community preservation coalition
is still trying to, you know, do some lobbying to try to get some more funds and try to figure out other revenue sources that can go into the trust funds. So, that's that's always good. Um, one other thing, not too soon to
think about town meeting, but the warrant closes on March 23rd, which is good for us because it's right after our regular Wednesday meeting, so we won't have to scurry around hopefully at the last minute. But, um, that's always
good. Main May is May 5th this year. Um, we do have minutes. I know. Did everyone get a chance to read the minutes? I know they went out kind of like they're they were the AI version.
Is it totally AI? >> I don't know. M I was going to I think kind of check in and make sure everything was filled in. Um, I I looked over the AI. I was going to ask him. Why don't we wait till Mitt gets here
just so we if he has any comments on those? >> Um, does anyone else have any updates? >> Well, I was wondering if anyone was able to go to the Carile. >> Oh, yes. >> Yes. Mitt and I went we um the community preservation
coalition had a um what to do with how to do with your CPA fund and um Mitt and I went. It was kind of unfortunate. Um Stuart Sagenor, who's the director of the coalition, had a flat tire on his way.
>> He got to Chumsford. He lives in Boxford of all places. He got as far as Chumsford. He didn't have a spare, so he was 45 minutes late or so. So, we kind of took it upon ourselves to sit and do our own. We'll go through his slides and things. So, we had some time with them
and um and learned a couple of things. Um it was good information. I think Carile had it because they had a lot of questions. So, they kind of um asked a lot. There was another gentleman from Conquered and a woman from Westford. There probably a dozen of us there. Um but it was kind of was well worth it. I
thought I like the um online they have some boot they used to do boot camps they called it and one of those I watched was really I thought more informative. But I think I mean he was a little rattled. you know how how you feel when you have your evening planned and then you can get stuck side of then
he had to get home >> so it was um was a little nerve-wracking but it was great >> agenda is over there >> oh yes >> you know >> so the boot camp is that just on their
website >> it's on their website yeah um it's a couple years old but the information is the same and it was basically the same thing that you went over. Oh god, if that gives a good outline of of CPAs. >> Well, we were as a result of talking to
the charter commission, it sort of came up on the planning board that we come to we serve on these boards and committees without any training. No one, you know, takes your
hand and goes, "Okay, this is what we have to do. is, you know, and so this boot camp might be a resource for that. Um, but >> it would be a good good introduction and do it at home. You can do it in sections if you want, but yes. Let's see if I can find the exact
length. >> Hi everybody. >> Hello. >> Thanks for >> It's all right. We just >> just eating some really yummy chicken soup. We didn't get to the meat of anything yet, so you're all set.
>> Um, member updates. Does anyone have anything from their particular boards they'd like to public input? We have some members, but they are well the next Clean Lakes Committee discussion. John Fullson Dave
Bar here with us again. What do you need? >> What do they need? >> I put Dave Bar up in front of you. He's got a couple of things for u for >> Sanjay. Can you hear us? Okay. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I I can hear you f
everyone fine. >> Okay. Perfect. Oh, you >> want something? >> Hi, I'm Dave Bar. I'm a member of the ins committee and um two things that I
was interested in talking to you about tonight. Um first is a revisit of one of the sessions we had last summer. Um we came last summer uh because
um at town meeting you had well earlier in the spring you had approved $80,000 allocation for clean lakes committee to use for echo harvesting on Lake Manawan keep forge pond and then it
turned out that um the permit that the clean lace committee was uh working to get for which was an extra permit for dredging that D required
from all of the lakes in the town that um wasn't going to be available. Uh they came and asked whether we could possibly use some of that funding for herbicide treatment to get some relief
uh for the summer. um and to get a start on uh doing some more mitigation for the invasive plants that are causing utrification. And you agreed and um so
our plan we moved ahead to do herbicide treatments um for uh various reasons which we can go into if you want to. Um, we weren't able to do the herbicide
treatment last summer. Um, and I think I might have told you that at the time um once we that came to be. Um, so the plan of course was to do echo harvesting in the summer of 26 because we're going to
have our uh dredging permit um by then. Uh well, now it turns out we're not going to have region approval by now. Um clean lace committee hired contra uh consultants to prepare the submissions
for um dredging permits for uh long spectacle pond and lake mane. And the understanding was that it would be submitted in time to have uh a permit
by next summer. Um but that uh isn't going to happen. It's going to be uh won't even be submitted until beginning of next summer. Um so um as was the case uh you know for the last
3 years uh the plant growth invasive plant growth in Lake Manawanaki has just bloomed. Um I was talking to one of the there are a lot of residents
all the residents say the same thing in particular residents that have lived there for you know or summerred there either or for 50 60 years say this is you know these last few years are the worst that they've ever seen. Um so we
don't want to do we don't want to do nothing. Um so uh we're coming back again to ask whether um you would allow us to use um 20,000 of the 80,000 for
herbicide treatments for next summer. >> Part of the reason to come now is that the water department, we understand, is starting to do bidding for next summer. And so, uh, we wanted to get things lined up to be able to be included in
the bidding for for that. Um, so that's my first request. >> So, the 80,000 was originally for >> echo harvesting. >> Echo harvesting. And we told you you could use it for herbic herbicides. the
the agreement last time was we came and asked if we could use 20,000 for herbicide treatment uh last summer and you agreed and there was some concern as to and one of the reasons that it was deemed to be acceptable was because we
had a section in our application which said that if we weren't going to be able to things were delayed say with the permit then we might want to do aside treatment. Um, that was the hat that we
hung the >> agreement on and uh you wanted to check with town council to see that he agreed and he did. >> So, you're asking for another 20,000. >> No, he didn't spend that 20.
>> Okay. >> Because we didn't we didn't do the treatment. So I'm again asking for that same 20 to use for herbicide. So we have 80,000 allocated. >> Yeah, >> we would like to >> think we need to do anything, do we? It's there.
>> I mean, >> the understanding last time I came was we were going to do the treatment last summer >> and since we didn't, >> you might have a different >> take on it. I don't know. So I that's why we came back.
We don't have any comment on >> not a comment about uh that but I'm just wondering why the why the balloon why why now I mean what's changed >> well that's what we're trying to find out um the uh some of the residents um
that have lived there forever u it happens to coincide with the timing for the inlet for the largest twothirds of flow into the lake comes from >> Beaverbrook
>> and uh up until 3 years ago uh that came into the lake through two big culverts the size of you know as high as the room uh and then those got replaced by a bridge. So the the bridge is 35 ft long
all open. So there's less restrictions in terms of you know the flow into the lake. Uh now the the amount of flow hasn't changed because the upream wershed is the same. Um some people feel like well now there
now things that you know used to be stopped by the coverage can now come through but we didn't really have you know huge pile up of either plants or muck or you know um so I don't know um
the it could be due to um um change in nutrients uh their our uh farms on part of the shore. Um something good happened there. Um
part of the upper watershed uh comes past the Patriot Beverage >> botting plant uh which is being sued by the um conservation law foundation uh because they are putting too many
nutrients into the stream that goes by there. And uh that goes into Milville Mil Pond which goes into uh comes down into into Lake Malawani. That could be I
mean so we are um doing a lake preservation plan. Um uh we have that on the budget for um FY26 committee. Um also we we're doing one right now for Stal Pond. We're just in
the process of completing it for next year. We're doing we we we're budgeting for one for Nawanaki and for Long Lake. And we're hoping that that could possibly give us some um insight into
what could be causing it um and what we you know could be doing uh to to deal with it. Um, in the end it it's it it pretty much comes down to nutrients. Well, the fact
that we have invasive plants and then the amount of nutrients that come in. Uh, so the native plants have been there for several decade. I mean, the invasive plants, sorry, have been there for for decades. Um, but it really is um
something else in the last few years. So um we're not sure. Um so right now we are working to uh try to remove the invasive plants as
best we can. um if they are allowed to proliferate um they grow, they die, they go to the bottom of the lake and they can add to the sediment in the bottom and um that is the that's
filling in of lakes is the process of utrification. Normally that takes a th00and to 10,000 years in the natural habitat. But when um lakes are surrounded by a developed region, it can
be tens or hundreds or tens of years. Uh Mil Pond um in, you know, across town used to be about 12 ft deep. it was pretty thor and open and over the course of
20 30 years um is now 3 ft deep and has a lot of invasive plants in it. Um so the um this is what we're trying to avoid. Um
uh and um you know just to kind of make a plug um I I know that generally speaking you're not allowed to do maintenance on your these areas in town.
Um but I would maintain that um you know if you have an upland and it's you know grow things are growing on it and you leave it alone and then you come back a couple decades later you can still clear it out and you still got the the land is still there.
If you have a lake and you ignore it and it utrifies and then you come back later it might not be there. So I think there is a difference and I would suggest that we're looking at preserving the resource
not maintaining it. But um we don't know why. That's the long that's the long answer to to the fact we don't know why. We're trying to trying to figure that out right now. We're trying to deal with trying keep it from getting worse.
So many um if I'm wrong, see if I'm wrong here. I think that because we agreed to that, the money is just sitting there. So you can just use it as as we voted last time and the the other part of the 80 the other 60 is still sitting there too. So
>> right. So and the next year we would want to use that. Uh, next month I'm going to Westford CPC >> to see if they would be willing to fund echo harvesting on the western side of the lake.
>> Um, so that we could do do the whole lake in 286. >> Um, so we'll see how that goes. Um, >> do you anticipate any new projects coming to us this this season?
>> A segue, >> before Dave Dave said there was two items, but for the sake of item number one, um, could I just recite some of the minutes that I have so far? Uh, Dave Bar from
the Clean Lakes Committee had two things to discuss. One was to revisit the work done together between our committees around the mechanical weed harvesting echo harvesting for which the CPC granted monies since the dredging permit was not submitted in time by the
consultants they hired there can be no mechanical harvesting. He wondered if $20,000 of the $80,000 of the grant money that was targeted to be used for herbicide treatment at Lake Wan Manawanaki.
Um he wondered if they could use the $20,000 as planned. The Clean Lights Committee wants to ensure is here to ensure that this plan remains okay. There was no disscent among the committee members. >> Yeah. Did you? >> So, we don't need a vote on anything.
Just >> Just follow me. Did you say the $80,000 was sp >> of the grant money that that we previously granted? >> Right. But just keep going a little bit. It sounded like you said the $80,000 was per he could use the 20 thou use $20,000
of the $80,000 of the $80,000 of the grant money. >> Okay. that was targeted to be used for herbicide treatment at Lake. >> It was turned out for her. >> But but a year ago, we said they could use 20,000 80,000
>> not 80 20. Yeah. But the way the minute the way he just read it, it could use $20,000 of the $80,000 granted. >> The 20,000 was previously approved for recycling. I think they're suggesting
that the structure could be a little >> Yeah. >> less ambiguous. >> Right. Well, I Let me Let me try reading again. >> Then we won't have to revise them later, right? Um Okay. So it would say
he wondered if they could use $20,000 of the $80,000 $80,000 that was granted for her. Oh, I see. He wondered if they could use $20,000 of the grant for herbicide treatment at
Lake Madawani. The Clean Lakes Committee simply wants to ensure that this plan remains okay. >> Yeah, that sounds good. So part two. Okay. >> Um another item that
had been funded by the water department for FY25. Um was um so let me back up a second. Um the main thing we've been doing for the last decade or so on Lake Balanche has
been draw downs, winter draw downs to fight invasive plants and uh in doing that we lower the water level by about 5 ft. Um it exposes some of the shoreline uh the shoreline that's exposed um
through freezing and desiccation uh inv the invasive plants that we have in the lake. Um it are will die uh if we have enough cold weather. Um
that has worked pretty well for the last for um yeah about 13 about 10 years. Last few years uh the winter's been warmer and uh so the draw downs haven't worked as
well. Um and um two reasons well the warmer weather causes two things. one uh the water the shoreline that is exposed doesn't freeze as much or as for as long
and so that um limits the effectiveness of the exposure. And the other thing is that um instead of getting snow all winter that stays on the land and doesn't come into the lake until the spring when it melts,
uh we tend to have more rain which runs off into the lake at the time and so the lake keeps coming up during the winter and then it has come down again. So there it's exposed gets is less uh in
the last few years than uh in the past. Excuse me. Last vendor was actually colder than two previous ones. So it was better, but the trend seems to be toward warmer and less effective. Um so um what
we're trying to see uh what could we do to improve the effectiveness of the draw down and um the one we can't really affect the weather um but we can see if if it's possible to um um do a better
job of lowering the lake and keeping the level down. Um so um what we uh are would like to do um we we had
um an agreement to to have this funded by the water department for FY25 um for various reasons which again we could go over them if you want to but um the
bottom line is that the the funding uh we had for FI25, we weren't able to use it. Um and there was a suggestion that at the time that um
there might be funding in their 20 FY26 budget for it, which it turned out there wasn't. And at the time we were told that uh it wasn't in the FY26 budget. It was suggested it'll have to be dealt
with in FI27 budget. We had had discussion the last few weeks um the select board about the upcoming uh FY27 budget um that for clean lace committee
um because starting this year the select board has um said that they would like to take the lead in helping us to uh develop our funing. ing um
develop funding from uh the select board, the water uh department and park and wreck and um uh
this item is not part of any of that. uh the what we want this project that we weren't able to follow through with last summer um last spring won't be part of the F27 budget from those sources and
the suggestion was that we should come and see whether uh it's possible to get CPC funding for it. So I know that you you have your needs assessment meeting coming up I think right it's uh
or you can come it's a running thing >> we have a running thing between now and >> okay all right so uh I don't have a formal needs assessment request application right now if if I wanted to get a sense of the committee and if you
were agreeable I bring one in next time. So what is the what >> what are we what are we interested in doing? >> What do you spend money on to draw down a lake? You know, >> uh there's really um not very little cost. It's it's um I mean the actual
process um just requires us or so there's a dam at the outlet to the lake which goes uh into Stonybrook uh in Westford and the dam was is owned
by Abbott Mill which recently in the last year or so has changed hands. So either we or the mill um personnel go and you know open up the dam, open up some slle gates. Uh
there's some stop logs that were put in 30 years ago that uh uh keep the water in the lake during the summer and they get removed in the winter which opens a big um area you know about the size of that door
for you know to allow the water to come out at a lower level. Uh and then in spring we put everything back. So the cost of that is there really isn't a cost. Um there is the only cost really is that we send out notices to all the
voters. Um, and some of them we can do by email, but half of them, so it cost a couple hundred dollars to notify the people we don't have emails for. Um, so not really any cost to speak of to do that, but um, like I said, we'd like to
see if we could do a better job of lowering the lake, possibly lower it lower, even if we can't do any lower than we do now, be able to keep it more steadily at the lower levels. Um
so uh we uh uh put together a scope of work uh to do uh hydraologic and uh uh hydrodnamic uh computer analysis of flows out of the
lake or basically modeling the the dry down. Part of that is a simple model for the lake uh and uh more involved models for the uh structures where the water uh
flows out of the lake into Stonybrook. And uh we are proposing to look at uh changing um making some changes to the structures uh that uh control the
outflow the lake. uh changing the shape or making them lower or possibly adding a second one um uh or uh possibly uh doing some dredging of the outlet channel between the lake and the and the
outlet structures. Uh we did that um a couple years ago. Uh but we would be interested now in doing it a bit lower. Um uh to so all of these things would uh
remove some of the bottlenecks to the flow going out of the lake. Um the idea would be to model these things with computer um programs and see what difference any of them make and oh so
there's a flow of that and then doing some simulations of the actual draw downs uh with these different um changes in place to see what effect would they make on the actual draw down over the winter and uh get some recommendations
as to whether which or if any uh of them would uh be effective in improving our ability to have a a lower draw down or a consistently lower draw down. And if um
if there is something there that uh would um would help us with that, then we would move on to a step of uh trying to get um then agreeing on which one or ones made sense to move ahead with and
then working with um the towns and uh probably the state. We'd probably be looking for some state grant um to see if we could get funding to to do whatever work was seemed to be um
appropriate. So um we had funding to do this study um in FYI25. uh for uh one reason or another it wasn't able to be completed and um we
would be looking to do uh to do that in FY26 well with your funding. Uh so the the funding was um uh last time around was um 15,000 from the water department
and uh matching 15,000 funds from friends of Forge Pond. Ideally, it'd be matched by Westford. And when I go and talk to them, um, next
month, um, I'll see whether they are interested in in in doing it. Um, when I talk to their CPC committee, I'll see if they're if they'd be interested in entertaining a um, a request for that funding as well. Um I think there's some
advantage in uh getting the town aware and involved in the discussions um so that um if we did find that there is a a change that
would be helpful. they would have a heads up on what we're thinking about and they um would have a you know some skin in the game. >> So So you would think it would be for like modeling the lake the structures
the simulations of the draw down and recommendations. That's what your project would be looking for from us. Is that scope? And it's maybe about $30,000. Uh so last it was we had 15 and
15 um I don't know that um uh you know doing it next year it would be the same. So what I would be proposing is 20,000 from the C Littleton CPC and 20,000 from either Friends of Forge Pond or Westford
CPC. And you know if we can we had a contract to do it for 30,000 last year. Um I if so um I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up some. I would doubt that it
would go up by a third. Um but um uh I don't know. Um >> so I mean >> well my only question would be what if you don't get the other 20,000 from other sources? What would happen? So um
I'm also a member of friends forge pond. I'm on the board and um the board has agreed that they would like to again fund do matching funding for this if that was needed.
Um, so, um, >> so does is that money for the cons a consultant group to do this or are you saying that someone in your >> No, it's uh the the uh the consulting
group has computer models already in place and they uh would be looking at our situation to u put in the right parameter is the right you know fitting things together the right way. They have models for modeling flows through
um systems like this as well as modeling uh something like the lake but um the lake the lake model be very simple I mean I could write it on half a sheet of paper for you right but it's enough to because it's just like a balancing of
water coming in and out and that kind of thing. Um but it does uh give you you know what what the lake level is and the biggest unknown is what kind of outflow do we have and we're
trying to they would be modeling different ways to control the flow out and see how much does that you know can we increase the flow out enough to have a lower or lake level or more consistent
low lake level. So the money would be to have consultants do the the modeling and give us a report that uh identifies the the results of it and recommendations for you know how we might proceed
>> because then I can imagine if dredging is needed you'll be back in the same spot of needing a permit for dredging. um possibly. Um last time what we removed was um less than 100
cubic yards. So we didn't need state permit. Um so I don't know whether we would be able to do it with less than 100 cubic yards again or if going a little bit deeper would mean it's more than 100 cubic yards and we would need a state
permit. Um and I don't know whether uh the um yeah so if if we did then we would you know work to get that and that would you know if we if any of these things come
through it's a bit of a long-term project right I mean it would be at least five years right I mean >> so you wouldn't need money right away for that >> uh well I would you >> the first thing we would need would be
to engage some uh engineering firm to do you know uh see what kind of to develop plans for it. >> Yeah. I was wondering that the timeline is it something you you know come in and and you put in phase two of the project this year or would would you be able to
wait next year? No, I mean >> the whatever we would uh plan to do if it was approved >> uh if if if you agreed to um uh allocate it and if it was approved at town
meeting um my understanding is that after the May town meeting the money would be available. >> Mhm. So we would plan to um have the work done in the next couple months after that. Um but then depending on
what they found, I imagine there would be some time needed to get um you know put heads together in both towns and uh
see you know have we you would need to get a a broader consensus for for doing the work. >> So you you could wait a funding cycle or so before you get to that. Okay. Yeah. >> And you said that the water department was willing to at least consider funding
is as I see this. So this will give you a r will give you input into your practice of drawing down water and how it might be modified for your purposes but also to possibly identify modifications in the draw downs um me
mechanisms. It wouldn't we wouldn't um it would it would be for uh making changes to uh the outlet structures or to be um or to the outlet channel leading you know d either doing a little
bit of dredging in the channel leading from the lake to the outlet to the dam or um otherwise there would be some modifications to the outlet structure at dam or possibly adding an addition
additional outlet um you know concrete um like there is there now but probably position. So um we wouldn't change what we're doing. It would just allow us to have um changes
to the structures, dellet structures that we use, >> which presumably could be funded by the water department, by Westford, by a combination of both or by the select men or >> potentially. Uh I would first look to
see if we could get a state grant, okay, >> to do it. um that seems like just the kind of thing that would be appropriate for that. So we would we would look for that for anything else. Um and we we
might be able to get a state grant um to do the I mean it' be you know this is kind of phase one. Phase two would be you know getting kind of buy in and general consensus. Phase three would be
um getting some uh getting a plan for whatever is going to be done. You know, some real plans that then you could uh get uh a clear understanding of what's going to cost based on those plans and
then trying to get that funded. >> Does anyone have any gut reaction? I mean, to me, it's like a nice neat project in some ways. Yeah, I mean for us to fund that first phase, I feel comfortable doing that. >> That's all we're asking for now.
>> Agree. One question for you before you go forward to Westber. Who manages their beach? Is that the town or their parks and wreck? >> The Forge Beach. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Park and Wreck. That would be helpful
for if their park and wreck has a vested interest in keeping that lake clean and alive. >> They they do. In fact, I mean they uh their park and w commission allows uh Littleton residents
>> Yeah. >> to >> to use it um on par with Westford residents. if you know if somebody drives in and they want to use it um people pay to come in for the day to use it unless you're a Westford or Littleton
resident and they don't have to pay anything. So um we go and um that the uh park and wreck was involved in the dredging we did last
time. uh we uh talk to them every spring about what happened last year, what we're planning to do uh in the coming year to keep them aware of all of it. So, yeah, they they do have um an
interest in it and they are, you know, uh willing partners, like I said, you know, allowing Western residents come over and use uh the beach. So did did the dredging when it was previously done did that remedy reme
remedy the problem for a while? >> It was hard to tell because at the same time we started to that was the beginning of our two years of really not having uh good weather for doing the the
draw downs. Um so uh the problem is or the influx of water cannot get out of the lake at the same rate that it's coming in when it's drawn down. Um it um
yeah when when the I mean right now we're lowering the lake from midocctober until the end of November we lower the lake by the end of November we have to be done with what we do and we have taken all the stop losses we've opened the sloo gates we've removed the
flashboards from the from the dam there's no more we can do after that. After that, we just have to watch and see what happens. Um, and what has been happening is that when it rains, the water comes back up in the during the winter and then because there are con
bottleneck in the as it as it flows out during this month and a half, that's a long enough time that the water can all go out without a problem. But when we're trying to keep the water low, when the water comes up a foot and it
takes, you know, a week or two for it to go back down, that may be the the week or two when we actually have the the freezing weather. Uh the our understanding is that you need two weeks of below freezing weather
throughout the whole day in order to really be effective. And so when uh when we have a lake coming up and down in the winter and it comes up fast and it goes down slow, then that's
that's a problem. But we're also we're limited right now to um lowering the lake to basically 200 feet elevation. Uh during the summer it's about 205. Um uh now that the um
now that the the bridge is in the uh stream bed at B under over under the bridge is basically at 200 which is our limit right. So, uh the the limit was imposed by the um environment or the uh
endangered species uh um group uh from the in the D uh to protect the uh there there's some endangered species in the wetland uh upstream of uh
of the lake in Beaverbrook wetlands there. Um, so they didn't want us to bring it down any lower nets to protect those those turtles. Uh, but now since there is a stream bed under the bridge which is at
200 ft, even if we lowered the the lake below that, the water in the wetlands wouldn't get any lower than that. Uh so if we found that there was uh through changes to the outlet structures a way
to consistently have the lake level be lower than 200 ft. Then we would also plan to go back to U endangered species group and ask if we could get approval to have a lower um
limit on the draw down which would expose more of the of the shoreline which is where we have the invasives plants growing. So, I guess what I would suggest is since you've already kind of been with
to us for a um >> discussion >> discussion and eligibility, bring both of them in at the same time. >> So, we I I don't know why we have to do the eligibility already, but that's a real quick one. Just, you know, fill it
out real fast and then then the funding application. Okay? I think just instead of doing it in two-step process this >> Okay. And um >> can we come in anytime in the next couple months? >> Yeah. Yeah. Up through
>> Yeah. I mean it'd be better if you send it to us ahead of time so that we can review it before you come in. Yeah. >> It seems like you ought to do it after you meet with anything. >> Yeah. Even January March like say warrant closes in March. So by our March
meeting, >> right? Yeah. Again, uh even if they didn't fund it, Friends of F Pond is willing to match it. Um but it would be better if they funded it so that >> I agree. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, um, it's it's interesting, you know, uh, uh, clean lace committee had a reliable source of funding for, uh, about 20 years from the cell towers. >> Yeah. uh in Spectal Pond and now that
has gone away and through efforts of you know the town uh there is a broad willingness to help come together to fund you know the activities for the lakes. We've tried to have you know get
people involved in Westford in the same way and we haven't been able to get that yet. I mean, I think I think at at some point it will, but um >> it's great that we have this support. >> Well, maybe now with some more support
from us, they might feel differently. You know, maybe they felt like they were doing all the the heavy lift things. Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. And when I go and talk to them, I mean, I know that you haven't agreed to anything, but um when I go talk to them um in December, uh it's
first week in December, I will say that we had a discussion and people seemed interested. >> I I think I can say that. >> Yeah. >> And and can you uh just tell us a little bit about the fourth fund? What what where the friends support fund?
>> Friends fund. >> Yeah. with outs. >> Dave, could you um explain the naming of porch pond and lake? >> Same thing. For those that don't understand
has no friends, but >> it doesn't actually matter. Wanaki is a market. >> I mean when um before the settlers came as my understanding
it like that. Sorry. >> And in reading about it is that uh the Native Americans uh the name that they had for the lake of Madawani Lake and um then uh settles came and they developed
uh a you know um mill a for they first developed a forge uh where Abbott Mill is now um as you know at that where the stream comes out of the lake. And so at that point uh the southerners began to
refer to it as Forge Pond. But in uh in the 50s um there was a developer that put in um a housing neighborhood um as you come off Gilson Road onto uh
Madawani Trail. There's a neighborhood there that was developed in the 50s and 60s. And uh it seemed like the developer thought that uh referring to the lake as Lake Badawanaki seemed like a more
recreational uh placement. U so now uh it's known by both um I guess so uh in Westford they never refer to it as Lake Manaki. It's it's known as Forge Pond. In Wilton it's
kind of known as both. uh the in the state uh listings of the of the Great Lakes. Great lakes. >> Great pond. >> Great ponds. Yeah, thank you. Uh yeah, the Great Lakes are something different. >> Um we could hope
uh it's listed as both. Um so uh so that's um and then um there are some neighborhood associations uh around the lake uh like the um neighborhood we just talked about being developed from 50 to 60s is called Lake Manawan has a Lake
Madawanaki association uh and that is has membership of people in the neighborhood and they maintain two beaches and a boat ramp and um uh and and then they have social events.
>> Um, and uh uh uh in there's a Green Needles area uh on the southshore of the main part of the lake uh which is another neighborhood association and they have a they have a beach too. Um,
but the friends of porch pond is a group that was developed about 13 14 years ago as a uh group that's looking at the whole lake for both towns and the region. anybody in the region that's
interested and the focus is uh not on you know any of the social or logistical issues but on the um uh on the environment of the lake working to maintain the quality of the lake and working to um keep the the ecology good
and try to fight utrification. Um so um we have a board and we have an annual meeting. Uh we have a number of projects that we've been doing to try to uh deal with um neutrification.
Um we have been the ones that have been bing all these permits and um such. Um so um that's a group that's um involved with the whole lake for both
both towns >> membership and that is voluntary. Uh yeah, if you uh we ask if people are interested in donating, we say donate whatever you'd like uh and we'll send you a sticker that you can put up on
your street or your dot uh and um it we put it toward uh our our projects. >> That's good to know all that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like an HOA or anything like that. There's no there's no dues that I mean some lakes,
you know, I know that some of the lakes in in Westford uh have, you know, now that they had a Westford Health, they still do. Westford Health and Ponds collaborative, which I'm also a member of. It's like the sister to clean lakes
committee. was formed about 10 years ago when they had problems with algae and such and they uh worked to try to improve things and they were funded by the Westwood CPC for about eight years. Then the Westwood CPC said this seems
like now we're doing maintenance >> and so they uh now have a line item in the town budget um which the first year was 50,000 and they got it. The next year was 50,000 in the override budget
and 5,000 if there's no override and u it passed town meeting but not so they got 5,000 and then next they got 5,000. So the other lakes in town that do herbicide treatments uh go around to
their residents and you know it's like dues to pay for the herbicides. But but we don't have that kind of structure to be able to do that um porch pond. I don't think it would work.
>> All right. So we will wait to hear from you and >> thank you. I'll um pull that together and I'll send it to you. >> Okay. >> And I don't know if it'll be >> next you once a month or >> what? Yeah. The third Wednesday. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Which is the fifth?
>> No. >> No. The third. The third. Oh, the third Wednesday. Third Wednesday. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, December, January, February, March. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> Thanks a lot. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> So,
just kind of quickly, we had um I got >> So, we were talking at our last meeting about charts and stuff. It's too late. Um Sanjay and Bartlett, I just emailed this
to you in PDF. Um, See my Why does that look like that? So the first um the first section is the um the bucket balances that we had. I got from this is as of the end of the
fiscal year. Put this up on top up here. >> Oh, do you have any extras? SC >> I promise. Good for you. Thank >> you. But right >> ugly.
>> It is right. >> Where where was that? >> Um that's the Unitarian Church on the left. That's where the fire station is. >> Oh, what is that burn? 1943. It's a shame.
>> It's gorgeous. >> I don't know why it's showing me my desktop and not my what I have on here. >> Yeah. >> No, you just be found alling if >> um so looking at the balances we have
this is and this is what we had. Um as like I say this is 630 the first line reserve for expenditures. what I believe that is is is projects that are sitting there. So that's I think that belongs to all of the groups and then the rest is
the the reserve. Um so as we can see where where where we're at uh historic resources has a pretty hefty bucket. So, it's about 397,000 in open space, about 785,000 in historic
resources, about 91,000 in community housing, and 560,000 for recreation, and then we have about 285,000 in undesated. Um there's about 88,000 um reserved for current projects. So,
they have uh the balance is 2,209121. So, we have some pretty pretty decent, you know, we're building up some balances, which is good, which was nice. >> That doesn't reflect the affordable housing trust money. Correct. >> Yes. >> Yeah. That's in their budget, which we
need to get. That was one thing I learned at the coalition um workshop was that we need to we do need to account for that and and it's actually in one of the databases that we we have to update on the
>> state website. Okay, >> which I did not I have not been doing. I didn't realize that. So that's a to do for us. But we need to um where's Bartlett? I can see Bartlett up there. um we're going to need to make sure that we get um from the affordable housing trust the budget and what if anything
has been spent um on those CPA funds. >> Okay. >> Um we also need to do that from the conservation although I don't think they've spent anything but we should at least get a note from them that says nothing has been spent. >> It's true granted a few Yeah. sort of
>> I think it's $30,000 just in case they need it. >> Yeah. So, >> so I think we're doing pretty well. You know, if um Clean Lakes comes in, you know, undesated fund has gone down a bit, but we we did um spend some money
from there last year. Um >> and then in terms of the graphs, >> the graphs, so we had talked about graphing it. I tried to graph on one graph all the different buckets. But what's weird is some years we don't have any funds. So the graphs were like they
were oddball lines and if you put it all together it all blended together. So I just did the first one is just total projects by years just showing how much was spent each year in total. >> And how how do you account for anything
that's bonded? >> It's in there as well. It's just a total CPA project that they requested. >> I see. Whether it's bonded or not. >> Whether it's bonded or not. So, and then there's um >> for instance of a historic resources project.
>> Yeah. >> That first point is almost $200,000. That was for the roof. >> That was for the H Hotton building roof. Yes. >> So, that was bonded. >> And that was bonded. It was >> the award was $200,000. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That was the one. And then housing, there's a big spike in there, too. That was when we took the whole fund and put it into the housing trust trust fund. That was really the uh how we seated that
uh open space projects, which were interesting because they kind of up and down. It's like every other every few years we have a project. Um the big spike in the middle there was for the Williams land which we um
we ended up buying. There was I don't think there were any matching grants for that. Andrew were here. >> Well, thank you. I welcome on that. It's great. >> Yes. Well, >> but the next one to the right is for the Brown Browns Woods. >> I think the 450 was for Browns, right?
>> Because there was a hefty amount of state grant there. >> Yes. Yeah. Oh, is 895 the Webster? >> Um, >> probably. >> Yeah, because that was 2024. Okay, that makes sense. >> That makes Yeah. >> And then last year was a big year for
recreation. >> Yeah, that was the tennis courts and baseball field. So, that accounts for that big spike there. So, it's interesting. It's like every every every category has had a spike, you know, it's not
so I guess this is just kind of mostly for FYI just we have been talking about it and I saw it in my AI minutes as a task I was assigned >> but I I don't know trying to make it actually say something was >> well what's interesting is that in total
projects there are years where It's not much at all. >> Not much. Well, the co years 21 and 22 are kind of a low low point. Yeah, it's kind of interesting to go back over the projects and see what we have.
>> So, for historic resource, your roof, I understand it's bonded and you can't just pay that off, but you actually have enough money in there you could pay it off. >> We could now. Yes. I think that's almost done. That's got to be almost done by
now, right? >> But I mean, I'm thinking the Baptist Church, >> right? There may be something coming up, right? >> Right. But and that's one of the reasons that we've talked for years about, you know,
having some kind of cushion in there so that we can do some of those projects because we, you know, for years it was so lean and nobody we didn't nobody wanted to save and we were I know that the the FinCom has always said we can um we can bond anything, but it's kind of I
mean with the Webster property it was nice just to have it all done. So, like I say, that was more for >> That's good. >> Can you share the file with us? >> Yes, I will I will send that out to everybody >> because it is it's um to get it to say something is
>> Yeah. is um it alludes me too, but also even just playing with the numbers even if I didn't create a project, >> a product, I'd like to sort of just see what it looked like in terms of the data. >> Yeah. I mean, I can send you the
cumulative project file if you'd like. actually even even just a number, you know, to tell whatever comes up with that someone asks you and you can say, "Well, we've granted XYZ." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's good to have it all combined in here.
>> Thank you for doing this. >> That was interesting. >> Have we heard anything about the Baptist Church? Have there been any rumors? >> I talked to Lyall and he's not alone anymore. >> Oh, really? So, um, a couple of us,
well, I think some select board members did a site walk with them and then the historical commission, a couple of us, uh, three of us did a sitewalk with them after that. Um, the woman who took us around, she's in touch with other churches. She would
like to be she would like to be aware of what nonprofits she might be able to talk to that might be interested in partnering with them. So, I told her I'd try to get her some information about that, but I don't think anyone's gotten her anything yet. But then someone
mentioned we should find her about, you know, as examples what happened at the parish thing in Westford. And then there's something called the what was the other one? Um, I can't remember. There's some other one that we should let her know about just
as examples of things that have been successful. the um I talked to someone in town, I'm not going to name who was specifically thinking of that they the use like the parish center >> and I know that and had like programming
in mind and everything and I >> I know with my kids we were taking them there all the time for dance and stuff like that to the parish center >> and I've been to parties there. I've been to, you know, hard things there
and, you know, could be a really >> that that sort of struck a cord with me, you know. So, >> and I don't know who owns parish if it's >> I don't know either. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Own by and run by are two
different things. I don't know. Not sure who does. Yeah. So, we may see something for that at some point. Who knows? It's good to know that select board has been to the site and so I believe so.
>> Okay. >> We're not going to see it for sale sign up out front or >> not not no not right now. My understanding um is that they would like it to be, you know, public use if possible,
>> work with the town, but she wasn't talking about, you know, selling it out right to a developer at this point. >> Um and then just looking, you know, to next year already, we usually come up with our allocations Februaryish. And I
don't know if there's any other um I sent something out to Alicia and Tim at parking where I feel as if they had anything but I haven't heard. So I don't know if there's anything you know starting to be our season. So
our meeting this week was cancelled but >> yeah just have them thinking and then let us know if something happens to be coming themselves to have a heads up. >> Okay. I saw a picture that will be shed with some politician.
I don't know. Maybe it was the newsletter of our state senator or something. >> Anyway, >> I think the baseball field's almost done. If not, >> it is almost done. Yeah, the tennis courts are open >> and the baseball field.
>> It was nice during voting to see people using the tennis courts. >> Yeah, I didn't see that. That is nice. So, um, but yeah, I just was over by the baseball field the other day and it I wasn't sure if it was done done, but it's very, very close. Yeah,
>> the county newsletter, they said that it was will be open in spring. >> Yeah, that's for sure. That's good. Get it done like that. Um, so that's really all I have for the for the budget money. Um,
MIT, we did not do the minutes because we wanted you to be here in case you had any comments on them or anything. Um, >> do you want to look at them or >> Yeah. >> I got a couple of questions. So, was this all AI or you looked at it after the
>> No, it's mostly not AI. Okay. I just um and I I tried to type happenings more than the content. I I like I I didn't talk about for tonight
for instance, I didn't I didn't take a lot of notes on the why like marijuana for bonds. >> Yeah. >> I just said what the program was and a study by computer model. So short paragraph um AI tends to pick up a lot
of detail >> and it's not always >> we we started in the planning board and the minutes are like so long now. M >> I mean it's like almost like a transcript >> which I guess it's okay you know in terms of
>> Diane Croy taught us that you should be able to read the minutes and it's almost like you were at the meeting. Oh, well that's a big >> ass. Not just a few. And so the first thing I had was on page
um two under I don't where I am here under discussion. Okay. So there's no numbers are there. Anyway, page two towards the bottom it says discussion of invasive treatment AI
summary. >> Yes. >> So I just wasn't sure if a couple of words are correct here or not correct. B caution when it says blah blah blah benefits lapse when funding stops. I wasn't sure
I got the word funding. And then committee must guard long-term ratios. Is that the correct word? >> Uh I think that's their word. >> So benefits means that the
that if you're maintaining or purpose and you stop the funding then the purposes to peak. >> That's what I thought. Is does that sound right to everybody? >> Okay. And what about the word ratios?
I'll just put in benefits of program or of project. >> Benefits of preservation. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's good to get preservation in there. Yeah. >> I don't know what long-term ratio.
>> Well, in the next somewhere here they mentioned ratio again. It made more sense to me. So maybe it's the same thing. Let me see if I can find that. There is a line right below it. Mitt argued in favor of being faithful to our funding ratios vote to each other. >> That makes more sense to me because
that's like the allocations. Ratios in that sentence means allocation. >> That's right. Very nice because in parenthesis is what AI said and and the bullet is what I typed. So I just delete the AI, right? >> That sentence committees must.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Is that okay with Yes. Yeah. It's weird that sentence. All right. And then the last thing on the next page, page three 5B, talks about the clock face blah blah
blah. The last sentence says it was likely that the original original agreement was never filed. I'm not sure what original what it means by original agreement. original probably the >> agreement for a preservation easement
what are they called? >> Yeah. >> Historic preservation restrictions. >> You you thought that that there might be paperwork but it was >> right. Yeah. So yeah I would say Ed for original agreement of a possible historic preservation restriction.
>> Right. because we don't know if it ever really existed >> except it says but since it was not acquired there was no requirement that it have a preservation restriction. So maybe we should >> get rid of that list of just put um since it was not acquired there was no
requirement that it have a preservation restriction. Therefore it likely was never filed. >> Yeah, that's good. >> Okay, got that. >> Good. >> Yeah. And that's all the comments I had. And I think it was AI issues, not
issues. >> Yeah, issues. >> Well, a lot of times we talk in circles. So, yeah, >> that that discussion was sort of complicated. >> Yeah, it was. >> But I feel like I was there. So, I think we're hitting
>> D. If only at the time it was simply >> Did you have any any thing to add? >> No. No, I didn't. >> You were here. All right. So, can we vote the minutes in? Are you >> Oh, yeah. I I move that we accept the
minutes. >> I'll second. Um, we have a motion by Jeff to accept the minutes as amended and a second by Kate. We'll do a roll call. A mit. >> Yes. >> Linda, >> yes. >> Sam, >> yes. >> Carolyn, is he a yes. Kate? >> Yes.
>> Jeff? >> Yes. >> Bartlett? >> Yes. >> And Sanjay can vote. But >> yes. >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you. >> Um, any last minute things before we
No. Yes. Can I apologize for being late in missing the time? So, thank you for letting us be. Um at select board meeting on Monday night, Jim Ferg made referenced that uh as they were reviewing the um schedule with regard to
working towards the Mtown meeting that they were going to insert that wasn't on their display uh in the packet a public hearing pertaining to receiving from the public input pertaining to uh fiscal year 27
budget. I'm mentioning it to you because I take very seriously the many conversations you've had amongst yourselves and with the public with regard to definition of maintenance, but also aspects that I've really taken to
heart with regard to you folks feeling like you've been somewhat strongarmed. My word, not yours. Want to be real clear about that. um to approve things that might stretch your
perspectives with regard to your responsibilities to uphold the the law. And it's in it's not for that reason exactly, but it's certainly one of them that I've been advocating behind the
scenes for there needs to be a public hearing with regard to the budget and it shouldn't just be left to people to speak at town meeting in front of, you know, whoever number of people and holding up that. So, I'm giving you a heads up. I expect there to
be such a a time. won't be a debate discussion sort of thing back and forth, but it is an opportunity for you, should you care to to communicate on the record with regard to concerns that I feel I've heard. I'm not trying to force you to do
it, but I want to make sure you're aware that that opportunity is coming. And I haven't seen it in the last several years. And so I'm very happy that select board is taking this up to allow the public to participate prior to town meeting.
>> And what is that process called? >> It's it's to be announced, but it's a public hearing to be convened in January because what Jim stated, uh there was no final date. There was toss out of floating some ideas but quite frankly
>> by whom >> uh it was mentioned by posted to be posted by the select board and will agreed be agreed ultimately with regard to their plan. It's part of their plan with regard to building towards the timeline with the barber warrant and the
actual you know mailing etc the town meeting report. So >> thank you. Thank you. Anybody else have anything to add? >> You're right. We have the spotlight has sort of been >> Oh, the CPC. >> Yeah. >> Yeah,
>> we can use that. >> And the subject would be uh anything fiscal related townwide. >> Anything anything pertaining to the budget that public would like to put on the record. Uh I mean the specific
example that I think was presented on Monday night was if somebody thought that there should be a budget line item of X that doesn't exist or a budget line item that should be more or less than what is ultimately been proposed and heading towards the meeting.
>> Right. >> Can we entertain a motion to >> next meeting date? Oh, next meeting date would be um >> thank you. >> December >> 17th 17th is that
>> I put my calculator on. >> Yep. December 17th. And we'll make it a hybrid as always. and feel free not to have it if they don't come. >> Yeah, we'll see if anybody if we have anything. It's been it's really quiet. I'm a little nervous that I'm going to
get bombarded in February. Yeah, there's not much not much going on especially in December. It's busy. I'll entertain another type of motion >> and make a motion that we
second. >> Motion to return by Linda and a second by Sam Mitt. >> Thank you. Yes. >> Linda, Sam, yes. >> Yes. >> Bartlett. >> Bartlett. Yes. >> And Sanjay, please
still with us. That's okay. Motion carries. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you everyone.