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Good evening everyone. This is the uh Littleton Community Preservation Committee meeting of July 15, 2026. It's 7:02. We'll get started. Um we have in the room with us Mitt Wanzer, Linda Stein, Carolyn

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Mueller, and Rob Browns. and remotely uh Bartlett Harvey and Sanjay Ga. So we do have a quorum. Uh let's see. So agenda we have a few things to talk about more more just discussion than any kind of decision

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making but just um it's the beginning of a new season. So here we go. Um the first thing we have to do is elect committee officers president chair vice chair and a clerk. I'm happy to step aside if somebody else would like to take turn.

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>> I would nominate Carolyn Mueller to be chair. >> Second. >> Any discussion? I I will except for one more. Um Oh, we'll have to do a roll call because we have some um remote people. Nit. >> Yes. >> Linda,

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>> yes. >> Caroline is yes. Rob, >> yes. Uh, Bartlett, >> I can see >> Oh, there he is >> nodding. >> Yeah, I think and Sanjay, >> I I said yes. I don't know. >> Okay. Yeah, you're frozen for a minute.

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And raised his hand. >> Raised his hand. >> Yeah, Sanjay, I think you're still not a panelist. Did I do it right? Say >> click that allow to talk. promote to panelists. >> Oh, nice.

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>> And a laptop. Oh, yeah. He'll rejoin and then come back in. >> Yes. >> Yay. >> Resounding. Yes. >> Fantastic. >> And then vice chair has been Andrew. Um,

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unless somebody else would like a term to can vote on it even if he's not here. >> Yeah. Right. I'll I'll nominate myself as vice chair because we don't need a clerk anymore. >> Okay, I second that.

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>> Um, we have a first and a second to nominate Mitt as vice chair. Mitt, >> well, I would like to just say before voting that on any given Wednesday, I could make myself available if if it would help planning meetings to see you

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>> at the historical society. You're already there. days. >> I get through work at 4 and it be like, >> "Okay, Caroline, what can I do?" >> Put our heads together. Sounds good. >> Okay. So, I commit to that. Yes. >> Okay. Linda, >> yes.

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>> I'm a Yes. Rob. >> Yes. >> Bartlett. I think Bartlett's in another. >> Yes. >> Yes. And Sanjay? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. Okay.

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I think Bartlett's traveling today. >> Awesome. >> And then it's true. I mean, we've been doing the minutes via AI, which have been great, but >> I think we should have a clerk just in case because sometimes there's been problems with recording

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>> just once in a while. >> And I suppose there are other clerical duties that could possibly come up. I mean it's it's another um >> who >> when we submit the minutes does that's like the job of the clerk but I'm I in my duties just took notes and then

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gave them to you right so what do you do with >> I just I upload them to the there's an upload function on on the clerk's page so I have been uploading them >> and it doesn't take somebody to okay it

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you're able to do that with your password. >> Yeah, you anybody can do it. Anyone who has access to it >> on on the town clerk's page >> actually. Yes, on the town clerk's or our own pages too. I think there's a a button and you just you submit it. It goes up. Andrew is usually the one that

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takes care of it. And I suppose the cler I nominate Andrew. >> I second it. >> Okay. So we have F net and Linda

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to Andrew as clerk. Um Mitt >> yes. >> Linda yes. >> Caroline say yes. Rob >> yes. >> Sanjay. >> Yes. >> And Bartlett. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. Um the other thing we need is

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a signatory. Um >> we need someone to to sign off. We actually we have our >> we just have you do it. Is that a >> Yeah, I think as long as I think as long as the committee >> votes on it, we can just have >> I make a motion that Carolyn be the

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signatory for the CPC. >> I second the motion and this is Mitt Wer. >> Mitt, >> yes. >> Linda, yes. Yes. Rob, >> yes. >> Sanjay, >> yes. and Bartlett.

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>> Yes, >> there you are. All right. All right. Thank you, everybody. Um, administrative, I do have some mail. I just got in yesterday. The, uh, community preservation coalition. You've heard us talk about the coalition. I

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should send you their website. Um it is the annual dues. This is for fiscal year 27 and it's the same amount it was last year 200875. And the community preservation coalition is a nonprofit that deals with all

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things um CPA. They have a ton of reports, a ton of information on their website. They um they keep the uh database of all projects. They also are a great resource. We've used Steuart

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Sagenor. Um we've all used them, I think, extensively. I know Bartlett's had a lot of um questions and dealings with them. So, I think it really is. I mean, we've talked about it every year. We think it's really worth worth the money. Um it's it's higher now because

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of the amount of revenue that we um pull in, but it's still I think it's I think it's paid over the years. So I would like to we can have a motion to pay this unless there's any questions. I have a I make a motion that we um pay

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the dues for the community preservation coalition for fiscal year 27 2875 in the >> $2875. >> Thank you, Linda. I second. >> Okay,

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>> yes. >> Linda, >> yes. >> Caroline, yes. Rob, >> yes. >> Sanjay, >> yes. and >> yes. >> Okay, great. I will put that up to K to speak.

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>> Um are there any updates from member? I want to first of all welcome our new um park and rec representative Rob Rouse is with us. Um Kate Jacobson has resigned from park and recck. So Rob has taken her place. So we have a wonderful. So welcome.

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>> Thank you. Welcome, Rob. >> Thank you. >> Um, any updates or >> So, yes, actually a new member. Yeah. Um, so we have Park and Recreation has $50,74

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approved two prior years separately. There was an original request for a couple of docks and then there was a supplemental request because of the inflation or some aspect of changing the project but just the dollar value of the

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materials have gone up. Um, so with the transition and leadership at the park and recck department put it on the agenda last night, the commission meeting and you we're they're still getting up to speed with regard to it,

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but we had a a good discussion about the project itself and I wanted to just ask uh CPC about changes and the questions and I apologize I've attended to number your

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meetings but they'll remember this level of detail. So presented to you and approved by you as well as Tom meeting was a specific vendor can do materials that's consistent with the sailing dock that exists that we see in Long Lake

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right now. And then there was a presentation with regard to placing two additional docks um in the park and wreck or or nearby conservation area. So, the conversation went along these lines of, "Wait a minute, maybe we

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should be considering um materials that could stay in Long Lake year round as opposed to the sailing dock that is removed after being in the water for several months. And so that's one question with regard to,

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you know, when you approve the project the way it was, is it fine-tuned with regard to that specific vendor such because they're quotes, that sort of thing. And then a second

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question um is uh involves aspects of and what if with new leadership there had been previous discussion though I don't think it came here with regard to is there a need for the center dock

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because the center dock over a period of time the water depth has changed from approximately 6 ft uh within the swim box area to approximately 4 1/2 ft now. So both questions came up and I thought

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that you know so that we have direction need to put it before you if you can give some feedback as to you know what to do in this situation and I don't have an outcome as to where the department is going or or what the commission would

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say about it but I think it's enough question mark that want to get it on you know in front of you. See, pull up the one of the >> Yeah. Well, Carolyn's doing that. I

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think the the language of the original article before town meeting matters. And then in this we've seen in a couple situations where it's sort of the spirit of you know I think especially with clean lakes initiatives you know it's

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like oh is it a chemical treatment or mechanical you know we've we've learned our lesson or maybe the petitioners or the applicants have learned their lesson to say you know you know we want $20,000 in support of

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mitigation or invasive species and not saying for use of triclorate >> or whatever. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't know what that what your application said about the docks, but >> is would can do be the installer or is

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that just the materials? >> It's the materials and and Jen Davis, who's the interim park and recck director said she's never worked with that. She's worked with I think company by name FM that does a different you

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know similar sort of docs and she has nothing bad to say about kandock that sort of thing but and I can go through with regard to specifics so that I appreciate the feedback and I recall those clean lakes commission meetings and you know before you >> what's the timeline I mean are they

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thinking of >> so that's where that's where that no it would definitely not be this year But you know because of the November town meeting opportunity. >> Yeah. >> You know if if we were to redo some

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aspect or come to to time frame before you know it's closed then that would allow it to be put into the water potentially. And the commission did speak on that matter with regard to, you

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know, the original funds were in 2024 and it's been a very desirable um initiative and the public is still frequently asking about it and so we're trying to get it. So hence um whether it's in the pipeline or that sort of

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thing, you know, just appreciate the feedback I've already heard and figure out where to go. what it says here, this is the 2024 application. We strongly suggesting the CANDoc system because it has blocks. So,

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they're not really saying that they want to use, but if we have the time, like you say, I mean, I'd almost rather resend these and start too >> just because it's it's not even just like this year, it's three years from

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now when they come to us and and um you know trying to pay the bills and all it gets a little messy. >> So, your preference would be resend and resubmit. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And what's the timeline is three years. When did the clock start ticking?

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>> Well, we would have Let's see. These are dated three March of 2024. So, it would have been May of 2024. So, they'd be three years. Not that we really >> Yeah, the funds are still around to be rescended. >> Yeah.

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>> It's not like the time three-year period of laps, >> but it will soon in. And that's again why I wanted to get it before the commission to say we need to get this done. >> Yeah. >> But it might be until 2027 that the work is done. It sounds like

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>> Yes. I would I would say it won't be before the spring of 2027 if it were to be rescended, reapproved, approved by town meeting, the whole sequence. But you definitely want to do it in the fall because if you as materials and planning

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because there's a lot that goes there's a lot goes into it. >> Expanding that I will tell you and you may be familiar with that uh conservation commission identified 100 violations on Long Lake and some of them involving docks. And I fully expect

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that by the time that winds its way through select board and so forth, we may in fact find that the desiraability of a fishing dock now may be strongly suggested slash require ADA

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compliance and there's a big slope that has to be dealt with and we know how slopes can be expensive etc. So there so the idea I certainly welcome the feedback and I hear you resend and resubmit and that is to say that the resubmitted may have some different

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elements that the the original one never >> envisioned. Yeah, >> Rob, I have input or feedback justly as a citizen, I think it would be great to have another dock, but if if things

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are now in flux and the the the gate is open or to new ideas, I think it'd be really neat to have a dock that was more remote from the beach cuz there's a lot of stuff that happens. So, I'm okay with the sailing going on at the dock and and

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it is a trailer, so fishermen are going to bring their fisher people are going to bring their trailers, but it would be cool if there's a community dock where people had kayaks and stuff that it was more remote and had its own parking spot and it would be like down I don't know what the name of

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the street is, but on the other side of the frog pond for instance or something, you know. Um, and then and then that would liberate the neighbors in the in the in the hood to say you took away my dock, but you know, it's okay. There's a

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community dock within walking distance of me. And so, just keep that in mind. Like, think outside the box. >> Good, good feedback. >> It doesn't have to be on the beach. >> All right. So, I guess that Yeah, if if

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there are any questions. >> Yeah, I appreciate the patent. >> Anyone else have any? >> Um, I sort of have an update, but it's related to the 410 Great Road, so I think I'll wait till we talk about that.

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Sanjay, anything? >> I'm big. >> No. >> Okay. Um, public input. We have no public. Um, okay. So, then a couple of things,

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Bill. One is the Baptist church steeple repair and the possible preservation restriction. Um, I talked with the Baptist church people and they don't have any paperwork either. There's nothing. I looked through the

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registry of deeds. I don't see a preservation restriction having been filed. Um, Linda, you may be able to speak to this better. There's a new church that has moved into the Baptist church now and um which makes us feel a little bit better because if they're a

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church, you know, they'll want to keep the the building um as is hopefully as as close to as is as they could. Um so I guess the question is do we retroactively want to go through and put a res preservation restriction historic

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preservation restriction on the work? So, this may be redundant, but if you don't mind, I have notes from a long time ago that I looked up. I think it's from the community preservation coalition about this that relates to this whole issue. There are options we

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have. Um, I won't read the whole thing. I'll read some of it. Um, a CPC project involving acquisition of any real property is technically not complete until there's a pres preservation restriction approved by the

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appropriate state agency and filed registries dees. However, this is not an acquisition. So, we don't have to have a preservation restriction. Um, when CPC funds are used, oh, that's to purchase. The act is not specific as to

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whether a preservation restriction is required when CPC money is expended on a historic preservation project. Many towns have chosen to require preservation restriction when any amount of CPC funds are awarded for rehabilitation or restoration.

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In some cases, other means of protecting the public interest can be considered. There can be a memorandum of understanding. Um there can be a threshold amount of CPC funds above which we would require

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restriction below which we would not. Um there's perpetual preservation restrictions for forever or there's term restrictions that can last whatever period of time we would choose. And then it says here, when it comes to

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smaller projects for a privately owned resource, uh this the committee may decide to implement a term restriction, um you know, however long we think the um rehabilitation would last, like 20

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years or whatever. Um, so that's kind of all I had, but I mean I feel we had a conversation with the new church owner and I felt pretty comfortable that he they

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would not do anything to deter from historic um character of the church. However, I think because this committee did provide funds, we might consider a, you know, a short-term

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restriction to make sure that it stays where it is like it is. >> And it would just be the clock. >> Yeah, it would just be the clock tower. Nothing nothing else. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I have some thoughts on this. I think Thank you for reading that, Linda. That

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was really helpful especially when I hear two things the in uh the public's interest is key and a term something about the term and when I look at the clock face the the restoration was to

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not the clock inards the clock's not functional but that wasn't part of the work they restored the face which is pretty pretty limited just to that you know the the church is vinylsided I think And underneath it there's probably

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pretty good carpentry. I'm not worried about >> wood. We don't know. >> We don't know. >> But I think in terms of the public interest, the the the condition of the clock face is great. You look up at it and it's still pristine. Really good

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job. It's black and gold. And so I think then then the so the the public's interest has been served well by this smallalish grant with a limited focus. And then the term issue is that it's been 10 years at least. And so I don't

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think it's fair to the new owners or whoever it may be. I think it's our bad that it didn't happen. Um I'm sorry it didn't. But it doesn't kind of matter at this point because if another 10 years goes by and that paint needs redoing, it

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seems it seems just that there's like an opportunity to do another project and restore it again. But I think it might last longer than that. >> So, I'm I'm willing to let it go as a matter. Um,

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and I'd encourage people, the new owners, to think about reapplying to get the clock working again because there's work to do on the inards that would be really good for a professional. And they're all there. It's I don't know, they're intact, but they're just not working. I've seen the

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inside of the steeple and it's really precious. It's nice. It's a real antique clock and it would serve the public well to have it restored. So I I wouldn't want to create like some friction

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by requiring a clawback of a of a deed restriction. I' I'd sort of hope that maybe they would or somebody in town would say, "We need a clock tower again. We need a more pretty downtown

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common. We need trees. We need to remove all the power lines. The common is is a really precious parcel of land, but it's not really well cared for or pretty to look at. And there's tons of money we'd spend on putting the

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power lines underground, planting trees, getting the clock working again, building sidewalks. There's no sidewalk in front of Pub on the Common. There's horrible parking there. There's big chunks of stone and and it's like there's no crosswalk to get from the common.

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>> Well, there is one, but it's at the traffic light. >> Anyway, so if you're listening out there, please come to us. We have money in the historic fund. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask you a question?

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>> Yes, Sanjay. >> Um, I know we talking about the restrictions. Is there a particular repair being considered at this time or or we want to uh restrict to? >> No, it's um the actually the repair was

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done in 2011. It just came How did it come up? >> I don't know. >> I think it it came up when the church was was possibly going to be sold. So, they're not looking to do any more

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repairs, any more work right now. I mean, this this new church is just moving in and um I'm not really sure. I can't remember how it came up. >> Um I don't disagree with anything Mitch said. The only thing is I might look

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into how long a new clock face is supposed to last. You know, if it's only 10 years, then we've met the 10 years. That's 20 years, maybe another 10 years possibly for a restriction. But I do hear what you're saying. I wouldn't want to put a big onus on the new owners

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either. And if we could find the paperwork, like the contract, um I thought maybe when they were going through their files, they might come across something, but um they had some information, but it was more like just what we had was newspaper articles in

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the in the actual um application. I don't know. We want to think about it some more. And >> I don't think there's a rush. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um the other thing like you're saying, you know, if they want to come back to

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us, it's the the old church and state. That's going to be the hard part. >> Um >> I think other towns have since funded churches. That's true. >> They have. I think was it Trinity Churches? one of those big churches in Boston just did a huge CPA project. Um I

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think after the Actton um court case, it was mostly left up to your local local um town councils and ours at the time was kind of leerary about it and said no, we shouldn't do

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it. But I think that could always be revisited especially now that there are some bigger projects going on. I'd say one more >> and there's more president from other towns since that time as well. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's also local president. The

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um congregational church had a project with us and the merits of that project were to restore stained glass windows not because they were religious or about some Christian thing. It was because they were naming the people who had

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lived in the town and served in the church in a very public function. So each window had had a really important name attached to it of town people. So I think it was um I think that was a solid

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>> but that was at the time. >> You didn't approve that, did you? the second phase because they wanted to come in for the second phase and that was right when the the um court case. >> We did the first phase but not this. We did sub windows on one side but not the windows on the other because the acting

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court case came in. >> Yeah, >> which was kind of stinky but who knows. All right. Well, we'll uh we'll continue to think about the Baptist church but I I won't put it on the agenda unless we the historical commission or whatever

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decides to talk about it. Um so the next item is the affordable housing trust uh possible requirements for for 10 bright road or the conton mill. Um I know Bartlett you had mentioned that um you may have enough

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money in your elected fund that you may not need to come back. Do you want to talk a little Well, first of all we should talk about the project. I sent everybody um some notes from the planning board. It's also gone to Sleptboard. I believe um the Lupi

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company is going to hopefully partner with um Hebrew Senior Life um a nonprofit organization that that this is what they do. They create affordable senior housing and it sounds like a good partnership. I mean this is kind of probably what we need. Um so it's going

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to be at the Konet H Hotton Mill which they will tear down. Um which is the sad part of the whole thing and uh they actually the last planning board meeting they had schematics of what it may well you know first first go around. Um so

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affordable housing trust of course is is in on this and happy to um turn this over to Bartlett if you want to say anything more about it or tell us where we're at with the project. Bartley, you're on mute.

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>> Uh, okay. My internet connection is unstable. I don't know if you hear me clearly. >> We can. >> Yes, it's it's going to be 86 units. Um the the town is has strongly suggested to contribute some money which would

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come from the affordable housing trust. Um I have really no idea what they're expecting. Um I'm thinking that it's going to be in the ballpark of $250,000

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which we certainly can can do. Um, we may ask for some money later. I mean, I don't know the the we haven't really talked about how this is going to work because we don't know what number. Um, but we may possibly ask for money in the

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future to to make that up if we have, you know, some other big project. >> So, I mean, the planning was very happy to get 86 units when we had asked for 40. It's good. And it's nice to actually be

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creating housing with housing money. That's the one thing we haven't really been able to do yet. So, that's that's uh the state's going to be happy about that. I mean, we are we are um in the process

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of writing a check to Habitat for $50,000 to do the um the to Hatawan Roadhouse and we're going to we're going to give them another $50,000 later in the construction process.

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So, I mean, we are the housing trust is starting to spend money, which means we we're going to probably be asking for more. >> So, is the Tadin Roadhouse, did they get all their permits and all their

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permissions to to build? >> I believe they have they have a building permit. I believe so. >> Um I think I think you know the the clearing the brush is going to be this summer and construction will start in probably with the school year.

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Another nice feather in CPA's cap. That land was purchased with CPA money, the Brown property. And so that's a kind of a nice full circle there. Okay. So, we'll just hang tight on that

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also, Barl, until we hear otherwise. >> Yeah, I think that's the best. That's the only thing I can think of is because I I don't know any specifics. >> Okay. So, can you talk about >> So, the historical little historical

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commission last week had a meeting and we discussed this project and one thing that was recommended is that uh a photo gallery be included somewhere in the project of the mill history because there's a lot of history. It's very

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interesting. has a long history and uh we would like to recommend that to the planning board. Um so I was going to discuss it tonight with Jeff and Bartlett. Um but um we you know we can appear if you want before the planning board or you guys can bring it back to

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the planning board if that's something you're interested in. >> I think on the plans the goal >> Yeah. I mean the planning board certainly consider you know >> I think others >> he probably has plans but for for

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demolition he hasn't documented probably very much >> I think others what kind of documentation would you be looking for >> well well we'd have a lot of we have photos the society the little bit historical society has photos

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>> and then we could write up little blurbs to go with the photos. I think other mills around the state and around the country have this type of thing. >> Okay. >> If you've ever seen the ones done at the train station down at the commuter rail platform,

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um we did those when that was was created that has, you know, little photographs and little blurbs. So, but I think is is definitely planning on putting it there. It's on the plan. >> Oh, it is? Yeah, >> I think so. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah,

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>> remember we talked about that at the commission meeting. >> Yeah, I thought Yeah. Anyway, okay, that's great. >> Yeah. So, that would be >> Yeah, he's proposing a little a little park next to next to Great Road that has a that's going to have some kind of a

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monument in it. >> What would the monument be for? the mill commemorating the mill building and it's this is the location of a lot of Littleton's history kind of thing, >> right? Okay, that's great. I Caroline, I

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remember talking about the park at the >> Sure that he's open to suggest that the gallery was part of it. >> Oh, well yeah. >> Okay, great. That's great. Good to know. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, um Bartlet, we'll just wait. If you need that back on an

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agenda, just let me know. But I don't think we need to carry it until we actually have just wanted to let people know what was going on. >> Just some quick questions. So we >> do we have a do we have a number of what's the expectation? What's what's the funding expectation here

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>> or we don't? >> We do we do not have a number of what the town contribution is supposed to be. um they just want, you know, a financial contribution

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and it so you know it it hasn't gotten any more specific than that. I did ask um various other things and at

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there was a convention in Worcester a couple weeks ago and I asked her and she said ballpark $250,000. She thought that was reasonable. So, um I I I don't know I don't know what it's going to be.

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And Sanjay, this was before your time, but we we used to kind of do like a a fund dump to um the affordable housing trust. So they had borrows of a million dollars or so, right, that you have in in funds, >> right? We do have about a million

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dollars. So they have kind of a a savings account that it's uh permissible under CPA to have uh affordable housing have a fund of their own that they has been voted in by town meeting as a CPA funding bucket and they can go and and

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um as long as it's a CPA um CPA allowable project they can spend that as they want. Um we kind of put a stop to that. um your committee, the finance committee didn't really care for the way we were doing that. So, we've been more funding projects that they

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have done, but they've had that pot of money that they'll be spending down and then we report that to the state as as um CPA projects. >> Gotcha. So, if the request were to be coming from the uh this effort, so then

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the the fund would be coming from this million dollar um bucket, >> right? Okay. that we just accumulated that because real estate is expensive and we thought we there would be some point where we'd

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have to move fast, you know, not wait for town meeting. So, we have been accumulating money for this purpose and we're now starting to spend it. >> Oh, makes sense. Thank you. >> Good. >> Any other questions on that? All right.

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All right. So, we'll just take that off the agenda, but if you need it back on, just let me know. >> Um, the next one again is the same kind of thing. Um, funding for lake projects in anticipation of any future requests, but Rob, you're probably best to know this. Um,

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so I was trying to figure out did conservate. So, they took took away the clean lakes committee budget line item. It's now wrapped into conservation. Was there a specific line item in the conservation budget for lake related

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activity? >> You're still a member. So, >> I don't know the answer. >> So, they've done several and I think you heard discussion here with Dave Bar presented at your job also aspects of management plans. they've started to

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move into management plans as opposed to >> project specific endeavors whether it's eco-h harvesting or alphasicide herbicide that sort of thing. So my gut is that my recollection

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>> is they were moving in that way in order to be responsive to the public and the the concept of not try this, try this, but rather have a more comprehensive plan and set the stage for, you know, we're doing this because it aligns with

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a professional that gave us guidance. I I do think you're going to continue to see, you know, requests for uh for the the Lake Southern Spec Pond. The Littleton Water Department continues to

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fund uh spec pond quite nicely, or at least so far that's been the case. But the others do do kind of use up funds with regularity. And you know, I I just heard the last two weeks how I'm

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concerned about the apple man that we're going to get some feedback with regard to the outside treatments a little bit late sort of thing which just points to how nature is doing its thing and and it needs to be there needs to be responsive

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action that's intentional and hopefully su successful but more coming is is what I'm trying to say. Although how it's going to go I think is going to be led by that management plan. >> Yeah. So I don't know if this is what you meant Carolyn but are you asking if

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the conservation commission has a budget for lakes? >> Yes. Sanjay do you know was is there like specific >> line I mean their expenses are not very high so I kind of guess not but do you know do you remember is there like

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something specific for conservation for lakes? Not on top of my head. Um, can I go back and take a look at it? >> Okay. >> Yeah, now I can. Thanks for the redirect. I believe there was a $10,000 that was approved

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>> out of the town budget. >> There was a couple different pieces. One was in the highway department budget and then there was $10,000 specifically by the select board. I think in the last town meeting that was switched from the clean lakes committee responsibility to

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cons. Having said that, I do not recall there being any additional budget line item to continue. Rather, they were just transitioning the 10,000 from Clean Lakes to the conservation. >> So, is that$10,000 part of FY27's budget? So, they have

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$10,000 to spend on like invasives if they wanted to. >> That that I guess that's what CMJ that's kind of what I was trying to figure out. >> Yeah. No, sorry. >> Oh, sorry. >> Yeah, I don't Well, I don't think 10,000

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>> I don't think $10,000 is going to go very far in future. >> And so, if that sets a precedent, that's unfortunate in terms of cash. But the um the other thing that was sort of established and I think is more positive

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is that there's um certain hours of the conservation office that is dedicated to lakes related matters. So, in terms of permitting and stuff like that, stuff that the water department used to do because of their,

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you know, their impressive staff and and resources, they were able to manage a lot of stuff having to do with permitting and whatever and and science. I think that's going to now fall under the conservation agent and

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that that role in town needs to be supported robustly as a salaried professional because the the turnover has been killing us. And we've had really good really good like seriously intelligent

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well- educated sciencebased people working for the town and then quickly like moving to some other town or resigning or saying I want a promotion and and so I think so it's it's it's something that I hope

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will get a lot of support. It would be worth Littleton's money to pay their conservation officer well and also make sure that they're comprehensive in their duties to pay attention not just to land

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issues and but also water issues. >> I agree. >> Yeah. >> Um I have another thing that's on my mind when I see the agenda item. Um, in anticipation of fug future project

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requests, I think I'm I I attend the clean lakes committee meetings with about as much regularity as I do these meetings. So, I'm not really up to date on all the fine details, but it's really hard. The work that the Clean Lakes

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Committee is doing is is really good and that the people are putting in a lot of time and really know their stuff. Pond specific different different invasives can name all the I can't but they can name all the plants and stuff and say

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what's going on. But the thing that's that I take away when I am integrating it is that it's really a moving target and it's it's I think it's very unsure what what will happen in the future. They're they're going to come to us, I

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predict, in a year or two, and say, "We need like twice as much as you've given us in the past." And and I've been feeling like we need to make it half and and have other people in town step forward, but other

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people in town are not stepping forward. They're managing it well and saying how we should conduct business. And we have good profession, we have good financial advice from uh I can't recall who's been

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attending our meetings recently. Um a water department. >> No, our our finance guy who's volunteering at every single meeting. Um anyway, uh so we have good

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advice about how to manage money, but it's not clear where it's going to come from, I think. >> Well, I think that's what worries me a little bit is that we become the the sole funding source, and I don't I mean CPA is not supposed to supplant

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municipal funding. So, I can see if we help out with certain projects, I don't have a problem with that. But if we all of a sudden realize that, you know, they're they're getting $200,000 every year from us and us only, then we become the Green Lakes funding mechanism. And

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what, you know, we're not anybody else's complete mechanism for funding >> except for housing. >> Yes. Which is its own >> category. >> Category, >> right? >> But your point's a your point's a good one. And and It's not necessarily new.

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It this has been kind of percolating >> over the last couple of years. >> I think it's all big question mark of sorts. Um but >> and I think like what you were saying that lake man those lake management plans will help us tremendously because

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then we can see what the >> road map is. The other part that I found myself when you know prior to tonight being here is I I think you folks have done a great job trying to obtain information with regard to questions of maintenance and really discuss it. You

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put in a lot of time on on this subject. I find myself interested in always pushing to the select board or the town administrator for okay how about some clarity what is your plan or finance you know committee with regard to what is

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the plan we're obligated to fulfill the CPA and and yet projects come before that start to get into what I believe has been discussed the last couple of years about this and I'm always for so

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it's a great question. So let's deal with the question. Let's deal directly with each other and and not have CPC feel like we have to do it because we're we're it >> we're and rather just talk about the

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aspect of of you just express if we are the soul that concerns you. I think that's reasonable. So maybe we look for can we see identification beyond there's park and recreation commission that's got a a fee structure but it's very

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minimal at this point but there are attempts to gain additional funding sources but I think the bigger one >> is the one in the actual town budget and if the town wants to embrace this maybe it's appropriate I think to at least ask the question

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>> yeah fun projects maybe that's something to look into. >> I recall the name Mark Rambacher has been at our meetings. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yes. >> And Mark has been

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uh it's not an appointed position. It's not elected. It's not its own committee. He's just volunteered to get as an adviser pretty much to say what what can you know what is happening in this department? What's happening in this department? what do you recommend? He's

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done that for a year or two >> as we sort of and I thought it was the understanding that this was sort of a role that would help us bridge over to a new model >> and I think that's true. I think he did that as a liaison from the select board that was specifically tasked to him and

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I think Karen Morrison is also served in that capacity but Mark's definitely played a big role. Yeah. So >> I think we can have >> we could invite >> you have those discussions and you know should you should you care to do that. >> No I think now that it's starting to

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disappear I think I'd be more have to ask. >> Okay. Any any other thoughts on that before >> well do we have any thing coming up to town meeting? Have we are we asking for the town to approve clean lakes money on

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the next docket or is it all been in the spring budget? Yeah, the I mean it'll just be the next budget which will start shortly and it's budget round for for spring town meeting but Clean Lakes has not come to us yet with anything. >> Is there much happening for fall town

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meeting? >> Um I know just one other I was going to in their pipeline just one. >> Okay. limits. That's good. That gives us some time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um the next thing did I think I sent you guys the um community

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preservation plan that's like really outdated. In fact, the the notes are mine from like two different years, I think. I mean, we keep talking about um I think every year you're supposed to update your plan. You're supposed to have a you know, a community hearing. Um

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I just found minutes from the last community hearing when nobody came. Um which is you know I think >> like tonight >> like Yeah. Well, I mean the regular meetings I can understand. Um, and I'm not I'm not certainly not proposing to have a hearing, although the only thing

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I was thinking was the um charter commission on your last public forum was more of an open house. And I thought, you know, thinking outside the box, maybe we could have like I was thinking having the library from 10 to 12 on a Saturday and just have, you know, hey,

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do you know what CPA is? I wish the meeting room was on the top floor rather than the bottom floor because you'd have more people like wandering out. you know, we could have some boards up of what we've done, what who we are. Um, and that's just a thought, but

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>> we're supposed to do it, but we haven't done it in years, and I don't think every town does them every year. >> I I like that idea. I know you I mean, you've done the 01460 podcast prior to >> No. >> Okay. So, that would be another opportunity and use the town newsletter.

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Yeah. If we my recommendation would be if we like this idea to start to discuss a when in addition to you proposed which I think say great ideas >> and and that way we could start to

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encourage people who have interest to start to plan for it right >> month or two in advance. So, you know, make sure you come >> right. >> Um, and then what I was thinking with the the plan is do it in like really

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small. I mean, we have all year to we have what I mean, we haven't done it in what, 11 years, so, you know, but maybe we could do just like a section every um every month, you know, kind of just so we're not overwhelmed, but just kind of try to um chip away at it because I

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always think we should have it out on our website. >> You know, we pay the coalition all these dues and we don't really do what they say we should. Um, and you know, fun months if we don't get to it. I don't think it's a big deal but

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>> it is great. Yeah, I think there's awareness like the shaker land there's been a number of things and we hear at the town meetings people saying your taxes are too so it is form of attacks and so identifying how it's used and and involvement with regard to feedback

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other than just a the town meeting you know >> sort of events I think it's a great idea >> and I think as we have all discovered I mean for a long time CPA went under the radar until we tried to raise the percentage when we started talking about that more and more people know know what

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C the CPA is. Um, and I guess along those lines, I I talked to um one of the library trustees and they have like for new members, thinking of and I thought of this when when Sanjay was here last year too, was trying to put like a packet together for new members and the

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planning board just um I think talked about it maybe at their retreat or something and they had um a document that they passed out their last meeting of an example from another town which we could probably use for the structure and I I don't know. It was really ambitious

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a couple months ago and I started putting something together, but you know, um Tony Souza did the citizens academy last year. I thought, you know, something like that. If people want to know, we could put it on our website. So maybe that's, you know, we can kind of do these things in slow tandem. Um if

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anyone has any ideas for those, send them along. >> I have some ideas. >> Good. >> We can talk about Yeah. So, that's just kind of >> I'd also like to see the um application. I looked in your notes um

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for the plan. It's a little knocked up and there's a couple things and this is outdated. >> Um and it's been we we really need a different application process. I think too paper application is

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doesn't get really used as a like get out a ballpoint pen and fill it out. >> Yeah. No, more people are doing them online. We do have a fillable form which is out on the website. >> Just I think it I think it works still. Um >> uh so we do have that.

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>> I got to look at that and then maybe >> that'll be something to revise as well. Yeah, because there was one thing we had talked about um with the the whole um when are when are the funds available? Are they available immediately after town meeting or in July 1st? So we said

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well maybe that should be a question you know do you need your funds right away? So that could be added to the to the form. Um, so I don't think that's probably not written anywhere, but >> legally we still have to work on that, right, with talent,

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whoever, finance, lawyers, whatever. >> I think what they did, I mean, that's what they did last year when they, you know, we had that se separate section that spelled out that it was coming from FY20. >> Oh, and so that's okay to go continue.

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>> I'm assuming that's what town council came up with. >> I see. Okay. But your point's a good one. the the form itself to get the person to really tell us so there's not miscommunication. That that was really I think the great learning lesson and you you thread the needle and got it done.

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Yeah, >> very much appreciate it. >> A lot of scrambling. So yeah, there's definitely things on that form to >> that may maybe don't make as much sense as they used to. It also I think has Keith Bergman's name on it or something. Um um so I'll I'll look at it and see if

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we can break it up and maybe for the next meeting we can at least like the introduction the first couple of pages. >> Um >> I'm uh >> I was just curious here um when I'm looking at the the the original plan

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there are some there are some things uh critical things that are missed or maybe added over a period of time but not updated. I don't know for example recreation is not in the one of the main purposes >> so I mean you know we have been kind of

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supporting the recreation >> uh but not in the original plan itself just a little bit perplexed >> yeah so that again is um when we did the plan in 2016 recreation I don't think was um a bucket so what they did was

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they added it to open space so it's really open space and recreation and Littleton, I think by policy said, "We'll break that out and give recreation its own budget, its own 10%." But that was before this plan was made.

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So, yeah, you're right. Our our written policy doesn't really mirror what we're doing. Um, they did, why was that meant? They put in recreation because there were towns that couldn't use a lot

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of community housing, but they really needed recre like you know the towns that have a lot of land were more needed more recreation help than say community housing. And I think that's why they added recreation to that. >> Yeah. In order to pass the amendment, it

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was made um attractive to places like Worcester that has a great need for recreation dollars but doesn't have a lot of open space. >> Yeah. >> projects potentially.

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>> So yeah. So it is kind of funny when you look at what we say it's not what we how we practice. So >> but it's still not a requirement. It is um it's it's a allowable expenditure but it doesn't have the um 10%

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>> right but I think Littleton had decided that we would make it a separate 10%. >> Yeah. And we had that savings and spending plan that's just missing. >> And I think because I think that was just about when Sam and I came on the

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board you guys were talking about that. Um, yeah. So, things like that, Sanjay, we definitely need to make it look like how we're how we're running running things now. >> Yeah. I mean, it's just not only the language, right? It's just what we do

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and what we what's there is very different in even in terms of uh, you know, the composition of the team. >> Um, what's spec what's uh, what's ped out in the plan is very different than what we currently have. So,

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>> it's funny what 11 years will do. >> All right. All right. Well, then that sounds like a a goal for us for this year. Um, projects on the pipeline. I talked to Diane Corey yesterday and I think she's going to come forth with um a uh a

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project. She talked about it at the selectware meeting this this um last Monday. They had um some question uh at the picnic in FA Park. There was someone who wasn't able to join the picnic because they um are have mobility issues

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and FA Park is not handicap accessible by much of a stretch. So there there will at some point park and recre is you know planning on a big project a big capital project but that may not come to fruition for another four or five years.

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I guess it's been pushed down to maybe 2030 maybe something like that. So what Diane is going to propose is um more not temp you know permanent temporary but not will be probably have

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to be undone when they do the big bigger project >> but it's um putting it a walkway of of sorts from the parking lot of the fire station up like on the ridge behind going behind the gazebo with some um

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accessible seating accessible picnic tables and um just trying to you know get it so more people can use day park. So, as she said, it's really expensive. Like everything, you know, like the

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picnic table. She said it's like $2,500 for the picnic table, which is ridiculous. But, um, so she's going to come in with a project for fall and she wants to be able to do, you know, the disability committee has to uh if they if they she said if they get a

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complaint, they have to act on it. They have to make it make it right. M. >> So, it will be, you know, something that um she just has to, you know, talk to all the people that use FA Park. >> I wonder could the Eagle Scouts build a picnic table if they have supervision to

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make it compliant with whatever? I don't know. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Or $2,500. They were >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. >> I mean, >> did she give you a dollar figure? >> I was going to say get like $200,000. >> Yeah. 220.

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>> Yeah. She's, you know, this is just she hasn't gotten any quotes yet. Hasn't got, it'll have to go out for bid. Um, all that, but some I can't remember how she said she got that. >> So, there there was and the select board, she did talk and and maybe when she's here, she can talk

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about the transition plan that was just presented and accepted by the select board and Monday night's meeting. Then there's a self assessment report that is some dollar figures. And she went on to say how there's state funding available for like $250,000 per year

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>> that that but then I started to hear if we did 250 from the state and maybe 250 per year from CPC 500,000 and it so much like the clean lakes discussion we might

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want to put in the context or or notifier let's talk in terms of where you're at from a directional Yeah, >> you know, from an ongoing thing because that >> sort of dollar amount on an annual basis for some period of time and I suspect

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there are many many aspects that need to be done. I think it has to be um all the transition plan I think has to be done within a 5-year period. And >> the transition plan wasn't due until 2028. I'm quite confident, but we're two

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years ahead of that. I don't know whether that starts the the fiveyear period but nonetheless it's a kind of a short-term thing for a lot of big accessibility issues that public will you know benefit from but it to you know

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nothing comes cheap you know in terms of these are big dollars >> on well even we found out with the conservation boardwalk um projects last year. They all have a accessib, you know, thinking more of accessibility

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now, which is the right thing to do. >> Um, getting ice skating going in FA Park. Again, that's about the cheapest thing you can do and it's great recreation, good fun.

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>> Yeah. Just there are a lot of uh interesting ideas. You just got to dump a bunch of water out there and let nature do its thing. >> And Rob, you might know this. Do you know when the warrant closes? I have it written. It's

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>> either September 11th or 13th. I haven't checked the calendar. >> September 11th. It is I know it was I know it was a date that was Yes. >> I haven't said it. My understanding is that's kind of like a soft close. It's like get get the articles proposed for

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the warm, but that's not to say that they can't be fine-tuned, you know, before it goes to print, right? >> Yeah. Because that will be obviously before our September meeting. >> I mean, that's coming up. That's only in two months. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. September 11th. This is Yeah. So, the 11th, the 16th would be our meeting. >> So, maybe you want to meet me again before then. Possible. >> Yeah. Maybe. So, I'll I'll let people know. that we have an August meeting, we have September, but that's really that's it.

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>> Yikes. >> But she's doing I mean the impression I have is she's really been attentive to it. >> As soon as the complaint came in, she's right on top of it. >> Yeah, she sounded >> Yeah. >> Can with regard to being responsible. >> Yeah. It almost sounded like she might

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be ready for next our next meeting to get >> even though there might be other projects we don't know about yet that we might want to have an extra meeting in August before September lift. Yeah, I think that's a good >> that happens a lot with me. >> I think I have a list of people I

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usually have FYI. Um especially if we want them again, you know, they come in that last especially if they come in in that September meeting. The warrant is already closed and we have questions. You know, it's you don't have much time between the warrant closing and when

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they have to get the booklets printed and all. So, good turnaround. Okay. >> Are there any other projects in the pipeline? >> That's all I know of the park. >> So certainly keep in mind the park and

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wreck mentioned the docs. >> Yes. >> I can't promise that it's coming, but I think there's a lot of >> momentum. Make something happen. That's her ear to the ground. >> Um, anything else before we adjourn?

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Bartlett, you all set? >> Good. Thanks. >> Okay. Anybody's off camera? >> Um, the next meeting would be Did I I just said it. I've already

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forgotten it. August August 19th. Oh, that's social. >> Oh, so it can't be August 19th, right? >> This happened last year. See, we used to have the beach social on Thursday.

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Well, let's put it down August 19th and I'll see what because it's such a pain to get to another day. Are Tuesdays or Thursdays good for Oh, I might not be home on that Tuesday.

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Like August 20th, Thursday as a backup. >> That might be better for me. I'm not sure I can make the 19th a different way. Well, I can put it I'll put it out, too. Let me just double check to see if the

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19th is and you can do Thursdays in the summer. Is that August, not September? >> All right. Well, I'll uh we'll be in touch by check with Andrew and um

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Sam. Any last thoughts? >> Not wants to move. >> Linda, will you make a motion to adjourn? >> I make a motion to adjourn. >> I second. No,

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>> I guess I'll admit, but Rob was there first. um met. See, he's getting cheeky in this. >> I did it for AI. I want to thank the computer for taking notes to me. >> Yeah.

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>> And I also want to uh respectfully and seriously say, Rob, you've been so committed to the town and you showed up so many of our meetings in earnest and now you're the real deal.

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Um, absolutely. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> That's good when people have other other interests too to be able to help. All right. So, are you like are you going to vote to adjourn? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. Linda, yes. Rob, >> yes. >> Bartlett. >> DJ. >> Yes. And this part looks frozen, but I'm going to assume you Yes. All right. Thank you every