to officially open April 8th 2025 Littleton Conservation Commission Um unique evening for us because some are uh hybrid Well this is hybrid So some of us are online and some are in person So please uh bear with us as we try and
navigate this So let's go ahead and we will start with um our proposed agenda We do not have minutes at the time at this time So I'd like to go ahead and start with the land use permit request Long Lake story walk
Tim um I'm Melinda Herbouse trustee at the Littleton Conservation Trust Um we're looking for permission to do a story walk at Long Lake Park starting at Colonial Drive Now we've
um Littleton Conservation Trust works with the Children's Library to do these and every year we do maybe one maybe two of these But what we try to do is go to different um conservation areas in town
to hopefully introduce the younger set to the joys of walking through our forests Um so the only uh change was that we were planning to do it on April
vacation week but then we heard that apparently there's a bookw walk occurring at Cloverdale that week And we just thought well you know we don't need two in town at the same time So we'd like to change
the date to June 20th to June 27th Okay Commissioners any comments or concerns i think it's great that we're able to offer both Yeah I I think that the idea is great Um my only concern would be I know the the current route has it going clockwise from Colonial
Drive um down to the shore and kind of up and around Yeah The only concern Oh can you guys hear me i feel like my audio is a little crazy tonight No you're good Go ahead Andrew Oh perfect So my only concern would be Colonial Drive the paper road portion that goes into the park tends to be very uh rudded
and muddy that time of year So I don't know if um the course would be better off maybe going counterclockwise like off and to the right up the Tron Loop Trail and then kind of circling back the other way That's a good suggestion I I do know that it gets rough around there
I do think that doing it in June will probably help with that because by that time it's often getting a little drier But you know when when we see the conditions will make the decision whether we should go right I mean
my unfortunately you know the the really nice little loop that would that is off of the red loop is so I went through there and it's so brush filled and probably tick filled that I don't think anybody would want to do it So we're
probably going to end up doing an out and back either way Um because the little kids it's kind of a a trek for them all the way around the loop you know Absolutely And hopefully that time of year we've done at YAP We've done out
and back at Yap you know just depending on the area you know Okay So this sounds like just a date change Anyone else have any questions i don't think we need a vote for this We just need to just
acknowledge that it seems fine Commissioners that seems fine Yeah fine by me Great Thank you so much for your time Good luck Thank you Great Thank you The next land use uh permit
request YAP invasive species stockpile burn Hello Rick Finley a steward of the Yap property and uh one that's been involved in cleaning up the invasives on that property Danielle couldn't be here so
I'm just here to answer any questions you might have uh fire We are actually just burning brush that's trying to clear the walls keep them clear so we can mow the invasives up to the walls Um we I don't
think we're going to be actually burning invasive species the way it's uh worded but um so Danielle is the applicant for this and um Rick has been working with her and speaking on her behalf Um I don't
know what the commission's thoughts are without actually speaking with the applicant but I think this conversation is certainly um helpful to guide Rick in any certain direction I know we've had a little bit of conversation about burning on on different properties So if
commissioners want to um offer any insight that would be great One thing we talked about last time was will they be using some kind of burning barrel or something rather than just an a uh I'll say uncontrolled even though I
realize that'll be controlled uh burn that that certainly was one of my concerns Anyway I respond to that the um I think the barrel would be too small Um they're hoping to use a
burn pile that was used by Peter Yap on the property right in the middle of the this parcel and we've been mowing to control invasives around that burn pile So it's basically lawn around it and
it's under it would be very much under control and there'd be hoses that would be coming from the houses from to to do it So it's reusing an old burn pile that's there and and basically cleaning that up in the process of doing this
Thank you Other questions for Rick do you have a time frame in mind yet Rick is it as soon as you can at this point soon as Yeah we got to do it this month I think Yeah that's what I was going to ask The burn permits expire after April right so and especially since it's been
wet Feel like feel like now is as good of a time of any to get this going Absolutely Yeah I I I would I would support this Sarah Yeah That was in the same position last week I don't really don't really remember why it carried through this week Do you remember Tim what the concerns were we didn't have an
answer on the the barrel versus if it was open or not And I thought there was one more Um well I think we had hoped to meet with the applicant but then the assumption is made that fire department will be involved in this process Um correct Rick
who is going to be involved the fire department I've actually I've actually been in contact with Steel about this and he'll he'll wave the uh the fee for this since it's on town property Um Okay go find as much as you can then
pull it in All right So with uh I think where this is an exception where it is on town property and we do have other um entities involved such as the fire department I would like to have a formal motion and vote Sure I'll make a motion that we approve
the land use permit for the EAP invasive species stockpile burn to take place this month Okay Okay So let's go ahead and because we are hybrid we do need to have a vote and everybody has to have their camera
on Um Andrew do you want to go ahead and do it certainly All right Uh Ed Ed Fultzi Michael Michael Livingston I Sarah Sarah Seawward I Carl Carl Melberg I And Kyle
Kyle Mass And myself Uh I It's unanimous Great Thank you Good luck Rick If you could just let us know when you're going to do that that would be great Sure Absolutely Thank you very very much Thank you Good luck Thank you Rick Okay Next is discussion Forge Pond Lake
Management D number 204-0872 Uh herbicide use Hi Uh my name is David Bar I'm a member of the Little Thing Clean Lakes Committee member of the Westford member of the Westford uh Health Lakes and
Ponds Collaborative and member of the Friends of Porch Pond Um how much would you like to me to say about this well I think if you can give a brief overview and then we can um bring forth
questions Dave All right So um over the last uh several years uh the plant growth in Lake Badwanaki has increased uh significantly Uh many longtime residents there have said that uh the
amount of plant growth invasive and native plants both are um more extensive than they've seen at any time in their lifetimes Um we have um the allowed processes we have for dealing with the
invasive and nuisance plants are uh draw downs and echohharvesting which is physical harvesting of the plants with collection Um our recent experience with those is that uh the draw downs are um
not as effective as they have been in the past because the winters are warmer Uh with the warmer winters uh it's hard to get the lake level down uh because it's raining rather than snowing Uh we don't get ice covers on the lake uh
nearly as much And um the um uh we we don't get the uh below freezing temperatures for uh which we need for 2 weeks uh in order for the draw downs to be successful So with the
warmer weather uh those are uh not as uh uh fruitful as they have been This past winter um was uh more like normal and we'll have to wait and see what uh that does but we won't know until uh the summer Um the echo harvesting we've
tried uh for the last two years Uh in both cases uh we've been limited in how much we can do uh for different reasons in the two different years And because of permitting timing uh the
uh treatments have been done uh in late August which is not a good time to do it Uh we would like to be doing it We had planned to do a a large treatment this coming summer earlier in the summer uh
but because uh the DP has ruled that now uh harvesting of plants is considered by them to be dredging uh we need to get a large dredging permit before we can do that and we clean lengths committee
started to work on that last fall but we were told we couldn't actually start on it until this spring and so um we are not going to be able to get that done in time to do echo harvesting this summer
Um so we're looking to add additional methods to deal with the uh um invasive plants and the um uh increased growth of u uh native plants also And we're asking
to be able to uh use herbicides and algicides as well as um uh diver assisted suction suction harvesting which is um uh something that's already been uh formally approved uh in the last
amendment to our order and conditions But uh we have a requirement that if we're actually going to plan to use it we need to come back and and ask for specific approval Um what we're asking for today is um there's a um uh general
condition 13 of the order of the conditions says that um you know the activities have to conform to uh the notices of intent and the orders of conditions Uh general condition 14 says that if something other than those is
going to be done uh we need to come to get uh guidance from the commission on whether it's uh acceptable to amend the existing orders of conditions or whether um it's something that needs a new
notice of intent with a separate order of conditions Um the same issue uh was on the table when we amended the draw down uh orders of conditions to include the plant harvesting And the reason that
was uh the rationale that was um uh understood for amending rather than creating a new notice of intent is that a new notice of intent would require a separate set of orders and conditions and separate tracking separate
expiration dates separate um monitoring And uh the idea was that we'd like to have all of these uh processes in a single uh lake management uh set of order of conditions that uh all of the
things that are being done to uh try to uh manage the ecology of the lake are in a single uh order of conditions where they can be treated holistically So we're looking for that guidance uh
tonight as to whether it's okay to amend the existing order of conditions or not Um we'll be planning to come at your next meeting to uh present the actual discussion about uh getting approval for
doing these additional uh processes Uh and we'll be submitting to Tim all of the paperwork and such uh and sending out the abutter notices tomorrow once we know what your decision is
Okay Thank you Um commissioners thoughts on this and questions for either Tim or uh Dave Hey Dave how are you i don't you know as long as I've been involved with with the lake we've
argued you know uh stringent or stridently against using herbicides So I'm I'm surprised on the one hand but wondering what the the would be Michael you cut out a little bit at the
end Everybody cut out here So you're wondering wondering why we're asking it when uh in the past we've been reluctant to do it Yes very much so Yeah Um well uh couple reasons I mean
uh we've had discussions uh with uh uh lake managers uh people that are certified lake managers about all the different options for uh trying to deal with lake utrification And [Music]
uh are we still on yep Okay Uh and there there are no no silver bullets Uh all of the processes that are available to us have pros and cons and none of them are are perfect Um because we have no way of
dealing with anything this uh next season uh as it stands now We would like to try something Uh the um herbicides are as you know uh uh recognized by the
Department of Environmental Protection and uh the Department of Conservation Recreation as being uh valid methods for dealing with uh invasive plants and nuisance uh plants in aquatic settings
Um you're right We have uh we've been reluctant to use them in the past because of the long-term really because of the long-term effects Uh talking with our lake manager uh consultants Um we've been told that yes for sure long-term
continual using of them for decades uh causes uh issues and uh but if you use using them in the moment they work Um our thought is to try a herbicide
treatment this summer and see what that does to the plants in the Littleton part of the lake uh and compare that with you know how things stand on the westward side of the lake Next year we have significant funding for assuming that it
gets approved at town meeting for echo harvesting on the littleton side of the lake and the the thought is uh to see what using herbicides one year and then proceeding with echoh harvesting following that uh the echo harvesting
may be more successful because it has less uh less plant material that it has to that has to deal with Um so it's an experiment Um we we acknowledge the the issues um with using herbicides in our
uh full request that we'll be submitting tomorrow Uh but um it's uh Okay So let let's carry on Other other questions for Dave commissioners
So I guess for So it sounds like you're going to present the location of where this isn't just going to be widespread across later Are you using targeted areas the known hotspots or we would be uh doing plan surveys ahead of the um
the treatments and uh consulting with uh the um based on where the uh most need is and where it would be effective to use them uh consulting with vendors and
uh ideally if we can uh uh department of conservation recreation uh and uh our lake consultants and that would be the herbicide you plan on using I assume it's coming from one of their ones that they spoke of and I can't remember the names of them but in our in
our request we're requesting only the use of uh obviously only the ones that are approved by uh D for use in Massachusetts for a potter plants and not all of those We're eliminating some of those uh so we're not asking for all
of them but um that's yeah discussed in the full request Yeah Is it the same for the suction harvesting that's going to I mean we can assume that's really only efficient for suction harvesting is uh
uh much more expensive than the other uh uh approaches but at the same time it's uh can be very focused and you can get the whole plant out and you can be selective about taking only for instance invasive plants and the lowle you know
the plants the native plants that are only growing up a foot you can leave those in place Uh so that would be a targeted approach where you have it's large volume So the process in the moment is very uh precise and targeted
Uh the area in which it would be uh deployed would be uh a a limited area Uh either hotspots or uh places that um could uh benefit
from you know the the high intensity and that where it's feasible to be using something that's uh more expensive per per acre And you're looking to do both of those these this summer We can't do the herbicide We can't do the the
suction harvesting this summer uh because uh the D uh uh rule that they consider that to be uh plant harvesting which also uh is they're currently
viewing as uh dredging So we have to wait until we have a dredging permit to do that Um we're including it in this request because uh we would like to be doing it uh sub as soon as we can Uh we'd like the ability to do it as soon
as we can Um and since we're going through the whole process of uh amending or uh presumably amending uh the order of conditions it makes sense to make that request now rather than coming back later and doing the process again Okay
Let's let's kind of circle back to where we were and what's on the the table here So we're looking for and Tim correct uh me So we're looking for an amendment or also trying uh a new filing That's
correct Yep Okay I personally don't like the idea of trying something for herbicides Uh I think it has to be much more clinically looked at um disappointing you can't do some of the other things that you'd like to do but
um I'm very fearful of just what seems a little haphazard for the herbicides but I leave that up to the rest of the commissioners with your thoughts with with the herbicides Is there any or what is the impact
on the surrounding you know the animals basically is what I'm thinking Um they're safe There is no um issue with them Um I'll say that the other lakes in town have
uh received uh approvals to use herbicides So Ed this there's going to be a natural heritage component to this We have already submitted the request to Natural Heritage
And were you specific what herbicides you were going to use and in what area they were going to be applied they're listed in the uh in the full request There they there are only herbicides that are uh approved for use
on aquatic plants in Massachusetts and not even all of those Okay And the application areas were those listed They would be determined uh on a seasonal basis based on plant surveys
and where it's ne it's needed um where it would be beneficial Commissioners thoughts comments So it sounds like that all of those questions those would be answered at our next meeting Right So I think we're going too
far into this I think it's a do they need to file a new NOI or is it an amended NOI or order of conditions right And then at the next meeting we would hear any of those details answered questions I was just amended order of conditions as for the paperwork side I
feel like we've had issues with multiple order of conditions for this type of stuff and they get lost and confused Um again I'm not necessarily saying I'm in favor or not in favor right now but I think the easiest paperwork trail is an
amended order of conditions Okay So we need someone to make a motion for either of these options and then we can certainly take a vote on
that Are the commissioners like to be heard can you guys hear me my uh mic's a little funky here Yep Go ahead Andrew Perfect So I feel like an amended order of conditions would probably be the best route as well
Um so I'll make a motion if uh everyone would like Uh I'll make a motion that the commission issue an order uh sorry an amended order of conditions uh for the forge pond lake management uh
project DP file number 204-872 uh to include um how did we want to word this i'm sorry Herbicides algicides and suction harvesting Herbicides algicides and suction
harvesting Wait so the amended one already includes suction harvesting right uh you're just looking to implement it Yes Right Right So I think it's just to amend to include the use of the herbicides and alicides
and then get and then approval to actually implement one of the uses but I don't know I'm a little confused on doesn't matter do all of it I mean and that can get discussed at the next meeting too because this is you know
just saying that but it should be refiled this a request to amend Okay So you have a motion on the floor I'll second Andrew's motion All right Roll call votes Uh Ed um Ed
vai Michael I honestly don't know And we'll come we'll come back to you Welcome back to you Uh Sarah Sarah Seawward nay Carl Carl nay
And Kyle and myself I um so that is um let's see Michael do you want to abstain or Oh yes Yes Are we are we issuing it for just blanket it's okay is that what the motion is all we're letting them do is
present an amended order of conditions to us We haven't made a decision on them actually using herbicides or aldicides at all yet Okay Thank Thank you for clarifying Um then I'll I'll say I
I Okay Uh so that'll be let's see one two three Let's see here I'm sorry Kyle were you an I i've lost track Y Okay so that's four I's and two Naz
Okay thank you for coming in Dave Thank you Thanks Dave Okay next uh we're going to go ahead and move on to our 7:45 because it's now 8:00 public hearing notice of 1073 Hartwell A parcel R
17-5-7 construction of a single family home Who would like to speak to this i'm promoting Phil right now What What engineer is Does Phil have an engineer yeah Does it say on the plan
can you hear me yep Go ahead Phil If you want to introduce yourself that would be great at 73 Heartwell I don't have an engineer I talked to Ted Det but nothing nothing's changed It was It's just everything's expired I did the
extensions and now everything's expired So I'm just trying to renew everything Okay So Tim it might be best if you just bring everybody up to speed where we are with this Yep So this property got an order of
conditions back in I believe it was 2018 Um there was an appeal made on the order conditions that the information changed during the the hearing process um and that it went from being an isolated land subject to
flooding to bordering vegetated wetland Um the appeal went to DP DP went out did a site walk confirmed it is a bordering vegetated wetland and issued a a superseding order of
conditions The order conditions that we issued expired I believe it was in February of 2020 right before the the COVID tolling period Um so it didn't get that extension the superseding order uh got
the COVID tolling extension and then also the most recent one After discussions with Phil and with D uh Phil decided it would probably be best instead of requesting to extend the superseding and then have to refile with
us for a brand new order he's just going to be requesting a new order encompassing all of all the state and the local Okay thank you for that So um let's also confirm the last time that the wetlands
line was verified as well I don't know off the top of my head Um I don't have that info Okay Tim do you happen to have that uh if it hasn't changed since the Phil has there been
one done since the the order was issued back in 2018 no I I haven't done anything So when I bought like I said when I bought it everything was already done and approved So I haven't done anything since besides do a board of health extension um for the one time for
that one extra year Okay Um so we can assume it's at least seven years seven years old about Um I can I can go back and look it It might be on the the plan you told us in your your summary was plan is seven years old Yep So historically something that's
that old um the commission would request refl Um am I correct with that commissioners uh yeah or at least checking the flags are probably not there anymore If someone could you know put them back in
according to a survey that would be fine We could check them again Yep So um Phil if they could get reflged um I'm assuming that was on the plan in terms of their location
Yep Okay I can take care of that Okay commissioners questions So I think once that's done um and Phil we have some new commissioners since that time um when you have those
up to um plan a sitewalk as well Um commissioners what would you like um so we can do this kind of all at once Do you want the center of the driveway and corners of the house or do we have a plan to see
I'm sharing the plan right now Can you see it yep Sarah I was also asked if if you could uh turn on your light Turn on my light for sure Give me a second Yep Go ahead Carry on Could I ask do I read
this plan correctly in that what I'm assuming on the left is the septic is inside of what looks like the 100 and part of the house is also or at least the garage it looks like Do I read it correctly
yes Okay Just wanted to make sure So that means the 50 I don't see where the 50 is 50 is the erosion control line as well It starts right here Ed on this dash line and runs Okay
I see it now Yep It kind of for for a point follows the stone wall a bit doesn't it i believe all the work proposed on this plan was was proposed outside of the 50 foot Correct Okay So just getting back is there
anything in particular that we would like to have flagged or marked staked i think you' suggesting Sarah the corners of the house corners of the driveway be helpful Okay Is there I can do I can do like
center line of driveway if you want um that house that I mean that's a generic box that they put in There's no house plans yet I'm just trying to get everything reapproved Um so the it it would fall within that footprint but it wouldn't be any wider But um I can lay out what's there if you want that for
that for that house footprint That that would be great And then if you want to circle back with Tim when you have that done um so that we can schedule a sitewalk and then with your permission we would carry this on to the next
meeting Okay All right Yeah I'll get that laid out and I'll let Tim know and then um he can schedule a sitewalk Okay That would be great Okay Thank you All right Thank you All right
Take care Okay we're going to go It is there Next is at 8:00 So we're going to go ahead with continued discussion for the enforcement order 15 P road unpermitted grading and
fill in the zone Who would like to speak to this john are you here how's it going good How are you good Okay Okay So John if you can bring us up to date Um it's been a while since we spoke and this was kind
of a um date that we had planned to have a a large update And I see that Matt is here as well Is he representing you again yeah So I guess Matt's Honey Matt's uh
just on as support I believe Um so if you have Yeah So that's the updated plan I had proposed to you guys putting it out in the front yard I talked with Henry Henry did not approve that The
next best I could do was get it outside the 50 foot buffer Um but it's still in the driveway So it' be on the other side of the driveway And the only difference it that would be from the plan you're seeing is Henry
requested um four or five feet whatever fire code is off the house Um but I could still keep that outside the 50 outside the 50ft buffer So So I see here it says temporary So it's
already been there quite some time How long are you thinking it's going to be in place um I was thinking like a year or so That's temporary That's pretty temporary
How long has it been how many months has it been there maybe just a couple as in three I'm not sure exactly I got one Okay All right Commissioners questions for John and comments on
this I'd have to go back into the old minutes what we were what you were tasked with for plan the plan was to have it moved by April 1st Um but Henry did not approve of the location I was going to move it So and this is the
earliest meeting since then Yeah So Sarah what had happened was John had gone and conferred with uh I believe you talked to Tim if I remember correctly about getting on to the next meeting And when I talked to John about it um John wanted to propose this
alternative which actually kind of makes sense as the location to get it out of the 50ft zone but still be useful as part of his he's using it as storage for part of his cleanup work So um all the cleanup already happened in the rear
where they had that storage and there was a list that was um supplied So my understanding that today was going to be an update of where we are with some of the items that were in storage in addition to the
trailer Commissioners your recollection please And I what you recall is same for me I'm looking at the minutes I think all we discussed was making sure that that container was
relocated I mean the only Sorry Go ahead Matt I was going to say the only thing I remember was that by April 1st we were going to have a timestamp photo showing that the um shed was out we had essentially come pretty close to an agreement on the overall
cleanup narrative that I had written and submitted to you guys Um and that you know we were just you wanted the shed moved out of the 50oot zone Actually you wanted originally moved out of the buffer zone but then this composition are you talking about the shed or are you talking about the trailer this shed
right here It's a container It's a storage container actually Container We're all wrong I'm sorry I keep calling it a shed That's just my terminology I'm sorry That's just my terminology But we were supposed to take that container and have it out of the 100 foot zone in
the front yard Unfortunately the building commissioner um told John he couldn't leave it there So he wanted to propose an alternative location on this storage trailer for you guys How much room is there between the 50 and the house and how wide is the
container i think it's 8t wide and I'd have to measure between but it's relative depending on where you go up against the house I I asked because you said it would fit
Um but you then said there's a five foot uh you have to be 5t off the house I think you said Yeah So if I mean depending on where exactly that 50ft buffer is I plan on putting the back corner of it there So if it's you know
two feet further up the driveway to gain me the lineal feet off the house that's it It's it's relative I'm trying to reiterate just outside the 50 at the bottom of the driveway And I could also touch on uh the items
behind the shed on this the list is the items that I own That's my stuff that I'm keeping I consolidated and cleaned things up organized It's not kind of strewn out all over the place or
in inside the 50 That's the list of things that are staying Okay And that's outside the 50 So commissioners thoughts here You may recall when this first started when you look at the before and afters
what's been added in the 100 first 100 So John what's going to be behind the shed now where it says storage C list the stuff that's on the list So mostly
some kids toys a couple bins with some stuff that's covered [Music] That's not none of it's in the 50 Correct Yes Matt can you confirm that as well you
could It's on the plan You can see according to the plan I don't believe this plan is scale is it we've gone He has another plan that was he has another plan that was submitted that this is a rendering to show where the where the storage bin I keep wanting
to call it a shed so forgive me um is going to be stored Um there is a scale plan that does show material being out of the 50 ft He's still got material in the buffer zone that he's cleaning up He's going to do some plantings in the buffer zone but we're going to concentrate on getting the slope the
material that's over the slope and the 50 ft out and then doing the restoration work that I had previously submitted to you guys um that I'll be working with him on getting And I believe the condition you guys put on that one was
he was to take up the material get every you know get all that stuff out of the 50 foot you know from the slope than that Um I believe it was Tim or a commissioner or both would then go out to the site to make sure they were satisfied before we started the coverings and the plantings So
I guess I could expedite this by saying that with approval on the container placement um I'm not sure when the next meeting is but I'd say within two weeks or so it's or maybe three weeks it's reasonable to have it moved over
And where is the container right now so you're talking about moving it over away from the house or which direction towards the house yeah moving it to where wherever we agree on I guess or whatever gets
approved Not commissioners thoughts on this i feel like we've been dealing with a lot of encroachments for quite some time on this It's unfortunate that the container hasn't already been moved out of the 50
I just didn't want to move it over to where I'm looking to put it right now and then have you guys say "Oh no." And then be in the same spot but different and then be moving it somewhere else again But there really isn't a better spot like Matt said
between A B and C This is But had you I I think we come back to that a lot of these things that have been done probably wouldn't have been permitted especially the fill within the within the uh 0 to 50 Commissioners what would you like to do
there's a couple there's a little bit of when does the full work start the the taking the the cutting the the hill where the driveway is and all the plantings and all that What What is the plan for when that all starts we're coming up on that right because the Yeah
I think we had agreed on once it was nice enough to do it Um I know there's just a I I guess I'm not sure Maybe I thought I was waiting on a green light from you guys I' I'd be ready to start whenever
Matt do you want to address that i was under the assumption that it was weather dependent that we weren't we were going to be informed when the work was starting that it's not up to us to tell you when to start it Well we had targeted um if I remember correctly it
was the end of I don't have the plan in front of me but it was right around the end of April Weather dependent on whether or not we had like a really wet April and it just was going to be counterproductive to started at that point but you figure April May time frame again dependent on when the spring
rains kind of slow down right um that was when he was going to start Okay that was what we had basically spoken of at the at the meeting prior So my recollection for the meeting today was to recap that the trailer had been
moved and just kind of an overview of when they were going to start on the the other work that was going to be done Yeah agree That was what the um cuz you had specifically asked for a time stamp photo Okay And I couldn't produce that
because of the complications we had um because we didn't anticipate the you know the building commissioner saying no Just wasn't a thing at the time Tim how long ago did that conversation happen with Henry i believe it happened
the day of the last meeting which was too late to to get it on the agenda Oh I didn't find out until I talked to him after I think he called me a day or two after and said "Oh no." He heard about it and
just was trying to nip it in the bud It wasn't the day of the last meeting that you were at John It was the day of the last the following meeting after I think it was like March 18th Yeah I was going to say it was a couple of weeks before your scheduled April 1st meeting because
I had checked in with John um and I was just reviewing the emails John had responded to me on the 26th of March letting me know what the problem was with the building commissioner because I had asked him if he had everything moved because I wanted to take the picture and submit it in time for the meeting And
that's when he had informed me that just recently he had spoken to the building commissioner Um and that was a complication and that we would come up with an alternative location for the April 8th meeting because that's when I found out just after that the meeting was rescheduled I didn't know at that
point Okay commissioners uh thoughts on this We need to move on and give them some guidance whether the trailer stays or goes I think it's that cut and dry stuff If the trailer is
staying I would want a hard date when it's gone and I'm not sure a year is that's not temporary right okay Commissioners other other thoughts does Henry have guidance on temporary what's considered temporary i feel like that's not allowed No it's not It's not
allowed there Not allowed where no no I'm just saying I'm just saying definition wise I know that we he can't put it out in the front yard I'm saying I don't feel comfortable being the one to determine what temporary is Well the assessor consider it's already
been there a couple months so I would think the assessors are going to consider it permanent That's what I'm that's my that's what I'm asking if they have guidelines on that If there's somebody else in town that should say what temporary is I could ask Henry and we could kind of circle back on that I'm
just looking for approval on moving it Yeah I mean it has to get moved right yeah I don't I don't want the definition of temporary to push this off for another two weeks Well John the definition of temporary
could mean gone not just moved depending on what everyone agrees is the temp definition of temporary since it's been 3 months already That that's that's what I think the question that's being answered here I I just I'd come back to
the fact that this trailer was added without a discussion and we had already had the enforcement at that point if I'm correct Yeah A trailer got moved and the container got put in its place while we were under enforcement order
Yes All right commissioners What would we like to do i'm not a complete ogre I'm willing for that container to stay another month or two to give him time to since he is going to be doing the the cleanup and everything
else but in my opinion by Memorial Day it should be gone Would you like to make a motion for that i can try I might get it wrong So I'll be I think when you say stay do you mean
in its current position or outside of the 50 no in the new position in the new position which is five feet off the house but outside the 50 Thank you Uh I move that the container be moved outside
the 50 to its allowed location to be there no longer than the end of May 2025 And when would you want it moved by and moved by our next meeting He said it
would take him two weeks so I'm willing to give the two weeks So we have a motion that says within the next two weeks the trailer can be moved to its temporary location until Memorial Day That's what is on the table
Like to second that Yeah I'll second Andrew roll I'm sorry Say again Oh Ed Michael Livingston I Sarah Sarah Seawward I Carl Kyle I Kyle Maxfield I
and myself I It is unanimous Okay So it's understood that it needs to be moved within the next two weeks It's either moved to its location or it's moved off the property Okay Thank you All right We're going to go ahead
It's 8:23 We're going to go to our 8:15 Request for minor modification Foster Street Reconstruction D-204-0991 invasive species management and relocation of catch basins Who would like to speak to this i'm going to
promote Aaron here Oh wait a minute Hold on Who had who has their hand up that's Aaron I'm I'm promoting Marina All right Thank you Sorry I didn't see that Hi good evening I I put my hand up there for a moment Sorry about that Okay no
worries Um if you'd like to introduce yourself that would be great Yes good evening My name is Aaron Keegan I'm a professional engineer with Foss and O'Neal and I'm representing the town of Littleton for this project Um and could I share my screen
yes thank you Go ahead Okay Okay So uh we're here tonight to inquire with the commission about whether the two proposed product project modifications can be considered uh a minor and um if they constitute the need
for an amended order And um just to a very quick recap of the project um we are on Foster Street between Taylor Street and Balsam Lane Um it's a approximately a.7 mile
linear transportation improvement It includes um the addition of a 10-ft shared use path on one side of Foster Street drainage improvements uh improvements to the existing water man um and a
realignment of Grimes Lane to uh for a more safe alignment near the railroad crossing at uh at the commuter rail station And the project started construction um in fall of 2024 and is expected to be completed uh at the end
of 2026 Um we have two minor changes that we'd like to talk to the uh commission about The first is if I may So right now what we're looking at there you go I wanted you to move the the screen back
to the actual map Um you were on the order of conditions when you were speaking Oh okay Um let's Okay it's back It's back now Okay Okay Um yes So let let me just uh I guess is everyone
familiar with the um the project limits and the area that we're talking about i guess this is maybe a better picture of the the actual project limits Um so the first uh minor change that we wanted to bring to the commission was that uh originally the project included
clearing and grubbing of invasive species of uh plants within the project limits using mechanical means and um during one of the uh project walkthroughs with mass DOT's landscaping section I should add that mass DOT is
overseeing the construction uh they they're on site every day and the project's being performed in accordance with mass construction standards They uh recommended that the project include uh treatment of invasive species within the
defined project work limits Um the previous scope of work already included a mapping of invasive species in an inventory that has already been done um what had what was not included previously was the use of targeted
herbicides uh with the mechanical extraction of the invasive species And so that's the additional work that we are proposing Um MASAD defines a successful treatment of invasive species as an 85% reduction of coverage area
within the defined uh work limits where the invasive species have been mapped Um we included with this um inquiry a plan from the subconsultant SWCA that showed their mapping of the invasive species Let me pull that up really
quickly Um so they provided us with um an inventory colored basically marked up uh project plan identifying the location and the species of the invasive plants And the plan also includes um what
treatment types would be recommended for each type of plant and when the treatment be would be provided and for most it's it is a combination of mechanical and then this actually this table describes the uh herbicide
recommended type of herbicide and the type of application the uh time of year when it would be recommended And so this plan describes um that the treatment would be conducted once a year
um until the project is completed which um would be at the end of 2026 It also includes a report um where the sub subcontractor would go back out reinventory the invasive species and document whether um they've
been curtailed by 85% at least and they would submit that to masot and the commission So that's uh part one of the additional work requested Um part two is actually has to do with
the storm water uh plan Originally we had five leeching catch basins in the project area Um you can see from plan view Um here's a traditional deep sump catch basin inside
the road Those are staying We had five areas where we had uh an additional uh leeching catch basin It's basically a a 4T x 6 ft tub concrete tub buried in the ground It's uh has holes in it so it's
it's pvious The idea was to use these to get some extra infiltration uh into the ground Um as it turned out the the five locations where we had proposed these the groundwater was about you know 3 to 5 ft below the surface which it was too
shallow uh the depth of groundwater would need to be about 9 and a half ft for these structures to be feasible And so we found out that we can't actually install these where we thought we could Um and we found one new area where we
can actually install a leeching catch basin um that is located about 200 ft west of uh Balsam Lane on Foster Street on the east side of the road that the groundwater here was about 9 and 1/2 ft at least so
we can we can do the infiltration there Um we're disappointed I mean we we tried to to use one of MASDOT's uh kind of more recently recommended storm water best management practices Um we described in the NOI originally how uh we as a limited project redevelopment
project we were trying to meet the groundwater infiltration storm water standard to the maximum extent practical Um it just as it turns out after we've we've done the groundwater test pits um it turns out that the maximum extent practical wasn't the extent that we
originally thought Um I would add that in the case that we made for uh the stormwater compliance we did show that the added impervious area especially near 260 Grimes Lane uh sorry 260 Foster Street near the intersection of Foster
Street and Grimes Lane uh the you know the added impervious was negligible to the runoff that's uh you know is is running off to the uh we're over here on Grimes Lane the uh design point which is
an existing covert on Grimes Lane Um and the the leeching catch basins actually did not play a significant role or really any role in the peak flows Um they were really just for a little bit of extra infiltration Um so it it really
it doesn't change the impact of the you know the high flow events that we previously modeled Uh and so we're we're asking that the you know unfortunate deletion of of the uh from five catch bleach and catch patients to one uh be
considered minor um in in light of you know the overall impacts of the project Um and so we're just here to find out if that can be considered an amended order um or something else The area that you're the new area that
you've chosen Can you show us where the resource area is to that yes So this but Balsam Yes So this is actually outside of the 100 foot buffer This is 100 foot buffer limit to the wetland that's essentially
at the intersection of Foster Street and Grimes Lane So we're about 150 ft east of that buffer And can you talk a little bit about the access for your mechanical removal are we staying on the street with your
equipment or how are they going to extract it yes So all the work would be within on on the upland side of of the limits of work Um and my understanding is that the the
mechanical extraction is actually going to be done by a crew um with hand tools Um or is that's what you're proposing to us well that's that's what we're proposing and we can certainly detail that when we uh if if we submit an amended order Um
although I I believe it all is more or less spelled out in the plan that S SWCA submitted um they wouldn't be allowed to work in the wetland obviously and then you know outside of our defined project
limits we wouldn't generally permit that So I know we had quite a bit of discussion when we did our last sitewalk there for some of the sensitive areas That's why I asked how they were going to access that for removal especially with the high water
level at the moment Commissioners questions Tim do you want to reiterate what is on the table for us yep So um we're here He's Aaron's looking for whether or not this can be approved as a minor
modification or if you guys would like to see this as an amendment to the existing order And for the new commissioners can you define the difference between the two uh minor modification it can just be
done essentially administratively um and amended We would he would Aaron would have to to come back in front of us with a uh and get another you know vote for an amended order conditions So we're removing five structures and
we're adding a new structure correct yes Wait so the one that you can install wasn't on the original plants right so we we had to look for additional areas where the groundwater
was deep enough to kind of Yeah Right So it's outside of our was that outside of the 100 foot buffer but it still attributes to okay I think it would be a stretch to be a
modification What's the consequence of not having the other structures well it it means that we weren't able to provide the kind of extra groundwater recharge that we were were hoping Um and so it turns out that the maximum
practical wasn't quite what we thought it was But not being able to replenish the groundwater the way you are hoping has an impact on that area doesn't it or was this just a nice to have
it was more of a more of a nice to have I mean we as a limited project redevelopment project we we're trying to do as much recharge as we could on a project like this We're not a linear project with you know within the town road layout We don't have enough space
to do a formal retention basin or for bay that would you know allow a lot more infiltration So it was just kind of a small thing that we thought we could do but it turns out in many areas it wasn't feasible and that and that could be a future
discussion but not under minor modification Yeah I don't think this is a for me a minor taking five extension basins out and only putting one back Other commissioners have thoughts
comments questions i would agree I think that's more under the amended order category for sure Yeah I mean I think that with just the the treatment of the invasives I think that's more of the concern I have For
sure I again those those leeching basins would have been nice Um but I'm more worried I I would want to see the the use of herbicides and whatever captured in an amended order and it's only monitored for one year if
they get the 83 or 85% Okay Um Tim do you want to vote for this or just an acknowledgement uh I think an acknowledgement is probably fine Commissioners what does an how how does one do an acknowledgement
i think we just all have to be happy with not not accepting this as a minor modification I for one do not consider it a minor modification Nor do I Agreed Sweet It's so acknowledged
Yeah Sounds like there's a consensus Okay Aaron may not be what you wanted to hear but we appreciate you coming in in front of us Okay Yes Thank you And we'll um we'll take the steps to uh do the public notice and submit a formal
request for amendment Okay Great Thank you Yep Thank you Bye Um Chase would usually do the 820 He's not here so I I don't know Um so we'll go back to administrative
discussions Um assistant conservation agent updates still work in progress We're trying to hopefully keep the process going there We've got uh we've got parks and record Do we want to kind of uh switch things
around and get their agenda items um move them up a little bit so they can get out of here or Oh we have one ahead of them So I got the assistant conservation agent We can have hopefully more updates at the next meeting The next discussion after that is
conservation parcel U7-208-0 Just real quick sir did the person that the offer was made did they reject the offer correct Okay Yep Thank you I should have clarified that Okay Um conservation parcel [Music]
U7-208-0 Tim so this is the parcel that we talked about the last meeting um that parks and recosed the idea of putting the uh the storage um rack there Um I think where we ended at the last meeting
was commissioners were going to take by uh a drive by the area Um and we were going to redis at this meeting Okay Commissioners do we feel that everyone's had an opportunity to do that or do you want to move it to the next meeting
with a reminder i haven't had an opportunity to go by yet I didn't either Okay And I'd move it to next me Okay Thank you for that Uh next parking wreck uh Long Lake Dock Storage
Yeah So I'd asked um Tim to include this on our agenda for uh tonight just because um and Tim um other Tim are you in the audience hey Andrew How are you hey good How you doing good Alicia Alicia popped by too We just finished up the uh park and wreck meeting and uh we
were just notified by Saul that this was on here so that's why we hopped up here Oh perfect Hey Alicia Hello So yeah I just wanted to put this on as like a preliminary thing for tonight Um as many of you are probably aware park and wreck uh will be on the warrant for the
Springtown meeting for additional docks at Long Lake And it has been pointed out to me that um previously an order of conditions for the previous docs um uh basically entailed that the docs couldn't be stored within the buffer zone um previously and in recent years
they've been kind of right by the boat launch Um so I was just thinking we could get ahead of the game this time around and kind of come up with a plan to maybe put them somewhere else uh after the upcoming season's over I think it was it was the 50oot buffer
right Andrew not the Yeah So Andrew are you saying that Pock is going to come back later with a proposed plan or are you thinking we come up with a pro proposed plan so um Alicia and Tim uh I'm not 100% certain what other
options would be at this time Did you want to kind of think about different areas and maybe come back to us and we can kind of work with you to come up with a plan to to kind of store them about the meeting so we don't have anything prepared Um we were just here to ask question answer questions if if
they came up Yeah we were we were just trying to figure out what we saw it as an agenda item and we were asked by one of the commissioners what it was for Um so yeah we really we really didn't have any idea about it being on the agenda and happy to answer questions Um when we
had originally done the uh doc um we had discussed storage I don't necessarily know that there was any defined place that we were going to store them Um I know we had originally spoken about putting it onto the boat ramp Um recently I know that the uh
question has been raised um by residents as far as where the docks are stored and what we did but um this is our I believe fifth or sixth season of them being along that uh railing that's adjacent to the boat ramp Um the reasons that that
was kind of where they have been living is there's still access to the actual physical boat ramp uh where they are put off to the side uh where people can launch boats and canoes and kayaks while the boat ramp is still open um moving
them any closer towards the entrance makes it difficult uh for trailer access sometimes specifically with what we have there and uh the previous tenant um the house has been handed down Um since then had uh asked they not be
stacked at the top of the boat ramp just for viewing um from the just for viewing purposes from that property Um so that was kind of where that lived As far as the other um idea that had been looked at that's uh a little bit difficult is
um putting them up towards where the bath house is A couple things with how we stack them up there Number one is it's kind of difficult to get the loader up there that highway uses in order to forklift them out of the lake And then the other piece is that um we don't know
what the actual weight that we can put onto the tight tank The tight tank sits under that PE stone Um so we're not it's it's really unclear what that's capable of you know holding Uh the only other discussion that's been had in the past is putting him in the parking lot which
you know there's only 23 spots in that and you know there is significant use of that in the off season i.e into September and October by residents non-residents still utilizing the property after we close for the season Um and then the only other place that
was discussed in the initial concept was the conservation parcel over that you guys had that we had mentioned that we might be able to use for uh public storage in order to raise money for clean lakes Uh which was the topic that uh we had suggested that was just previously up
short of you know buying a flatbed trailer and figuring out a place for the town to store these things um and moving them you know we we have talked like is there room at Light and Water is there room at Highway and those are all hard nos from you know those particular
individuals Um so really I don't know where we put them on the property without just putting them in the middle of the boat ramp and shutting the boat ramp down a little earlier once we pull the docks And you know that's That's really the only other place that
it exists I mean we could move them back which is fine Um but they will if we move them back we probably need to double stack them a little more which might make it harder to get boats in there I mean obviously we can always find a solution for stuff It's just a
matter of one of the things that we've tried to do better is pack that property up better That was feedback that we got for numerous years of how the property looks when it's put away And that is kind of one of the cleanest and safest ways to kind of put them over there Um just kind of out of the way
That one spot you talked about where you said that you didn't know if it could take the weight Maybe there's an opportunity to put a a steel platform if you will that allows you to use that space without the it's actually sitting
on the on the tank you know Yeah it's just a matter of moving that platform to be utilized We use that space for sailing and the boats are stored All the sailboats are currently stored there as well No no solution is
great Right Right Well thank you for jumping in with with no notice um just because of this discussion So um if you all could kind of put your thinking caps on and do a recap of what you've just given us which was very thorough Thank
you Um and then commissioners will do drivebys kind of walk around Let's go ahead and post this as a formal hearing so that way we can bring others in if they have other suggestions if that's okay with you all Yeah we're here to
whateverbody wants you know to make Go ahead Andrew Perfect Oh sorry Intimic thank you for coming tonight This was actually just supposed to be like a very scratch of the surface type thing with the board tonight So having you here thank you so much for being here and uh and for you know answering our questions
and you know we'll we'll figure something out um moving forward So can I just ask one quick question of course So ultimately you know in in trying to come up with the solution and you know without having to figure too many things out um I mean
just doing calculations and measurements and how high and wide things need to be is the objective just to get them outside the 50ft buffer because I mean I feel like we're kind of close to that right now So just want to have clarification on that Yeah So I would imagine and I can't speak for the
commission but we would want to be in compliance with the order of conditions uh that was issued Okay And that was issued when we originally purchased it or where did that because I don't know if I actually have an order of conditions anywhere Uh Tim do you happen to know when that was
issued i'm trying to Yeah it was when uh it was when you guys came in most recently for the permitting of the docks Um and then the pathway Um it's in the uh the pathway that runs from it lake
shore to so the notice on those docks was the one that we were building for you guys off of Lakeshore So that was why I was asking because these are these are prior to that that have nothing to do with the notice of intent for that project My understanding was that also
encompassed in that was the uh the permitting of of the existing dock as well as part of the uh the initiative to to get everybody to get their docks permitted That's fine I'll I'll touch base with
Tim and we'll we'll get everything figured out But absolutely we can figure it out Yeah I could I could take it back I could take a look back in the uh the order and meet with you and run through Yeah because we were just talking about the new process on the D website anyway so it's Yeah we'll get it we'll get it all
figured out No worries Cool Thank you Thanks Thanks for coming in Yep Thank you guys Have a great night Okay Carrying on discussions Uh long leg frog pond walkway improvements CPC application status
Yeah So at the last CPC meeting um the project was approved So it'll be officially on the warrant for springtown meeting Woo Fantastic Well done Thank you for that Thank you Okie dokie Let's see
Um Tim you want to bring us up to speed on minutes and who gets that glorious job are you talking about this next item the the draft minute submitt yep Yeah So that was actually um Michael I don't
know if you want to talk to that Uh me and Michael met was either either last week or the week before about discussing if there was a a better way to have you guys review the minutes So instead of everybody coming with their
edits um and a lot of you have probably had the same edits right if if it's more efficient to upload it as like a working document where all the commissioners can make their edits and then by the time of the meeting you guys
have there's essentially a list of edits on the working document that can be approved So I think that would potentially be a violation of the open meeting law though Okay we're technically not conspiring but we're
technically um inputting on something outside of an open meeting right i don't know of any other It's a I mean I think it would be great It would streamline things but I can't think of any other committees that I've been on that is allowed to do that but Andrew I think
it's a great suggestion Let's Do you want to just confirm that we're not allowed to do that i I can certainly confirm tomorrow In my mind it would be the equivalent of us emailing back and forth and saying "Hey let's let's change this Let's change that." It's just a form of you know another form of
communication as a a quorum right okay So a Google sheet wouldn't be allowed then Private Google sheet for doing that is what you're saying Doing a reply all to everyone Well that's unfortunate What if what if
it was visible to anyone who cared to look at it but uh edits or proposals would be limited to our group I don't think drafts I wouldn't want drafts Yeah
Unfortunately anytime that sounds like a catch 22 Yes Anytime four or more members are actively communicating about subject matter other than scheduling a meeting outside of a posted meeting it would be a a violation
So even if we just had a list of the instead of actually updating the document you know how we go through Does anyone have any updates if there was just a a a file where they put their updates
or is that the same thing it would be a slippery slope in my opinion just because you're actively like I said editing and then looking at that person's edits kind of almost responding in a way Um super All right Well if you if you just have a chance just confirm
It doesn't sound like it would be doable but that would be good to do that Absolutely And then also Tim do you want to talk about minutes as well that someone's helping you or Oh yeah Uh minutes weren't ready for this meeting I
uh Megan the our office admin is is was taking a stab at them Um and we weren't able to get them done for for this meeting But um but going forward will she be able to help you with some of the the upcoming meetings as well yeah that's what I was just going to say
Hopefully she'll be able to uh to help out with that going forward to help alleviate some of the uh the workload that I have So just to make note that the next meeting is April 22nd and I think you're aware that we can stay on Zoom So um Tim
it's my understanding that we would not do hybrid Correct Correct Yeah Okay unless you guys really wanted to So April 22nd and then May 13th are the next um next hearings Anyone have
anything else they'd like to comment on if not if I can have a motion for adjournment Motion to adjourn Second Andrew did we have a second i'm sorry I
didn't hear it Carl did Yeah Oh Carl Perfect Um roll call vote Ed Edi Carl Carl Melberry I Sarah Sarah Seawward I Michael Michael said I Kyle Kyle Max I And myself I It's unanimous We're
journed Good night everybody Thank you everyone Have a great week Bye Right Bye everyone