##VIDEO ID:P0iYfis4sy0## 2024 uh Zoom meeting for Littleton Conservation Commission so what we're going to do is we're going to start with the approval of two sets of minutes from July 9th and July 23 from the year 2024 so what I'd like to do is talk about July 9th and see if any of the Commissioners have any um amendments or comments or additions to the July 9th I did not have any if we have no comments would someone like to make a motion to approve please I'll move to approve the Conservation Commission minutes of July 9th 2024 we have a second great thank you Michael Andrew would you do us the of roll call certainly Sarah Michael Michael Livingston I chase chase gu Kyle and myself I it's unanimous okay awesome then we're gonna carry on to July 23rd 2024 of the draft minutes does anyone have any additions or do you guys hear a bit of an echo do and I think it's actually coming from [Applause] lctv all right well let's let's carry on do we have a motion mine show that it was Amy weird because I wasn't hearing it so it might have been me yeah I'll make a motion um that we approve the Conservation Commission meeting minutes from July 23rd 2024 as written second thank you Andrew all right roll call vote uh Sarah Sarah Michael Michael living tonight Chase Chase G guy Kyle kle Max and myself I it's unanimous okay awesome what I'd like to do is to see if anyone has any other administrative discussions that they would like to add to this evening I would like to do one as an update for Corey Godfrey um Amy I think you might have some yeah I have one thing I want to add on Japanese not weed okay and then Boat House update or is that already on that's all said actually okay great okay so what I'd like to do is Dave bar in attendance he is not okay so let's go ahead and go in order um first off is a continued discussion for the enforcement order of 15 Powers Road um as you know we've been trying to get in touch with the owner Amy I'll let you follow up on this you had conversations with the owner that was going to um chat with us tonight there is someone on who I'm not sure they are for you have to identify yourself there's a cell phone number of 978 995 51220 John mcen and John where do you reside 15 Powers Road okay great thank you for joining us John um would you like to tell us a little bit about your site uh we did a walk through a week or so ago um there isn't really too much to say I guess I didn't I didn't realize I yeah I guess there isn't really too much to say okay do you want to just back up a step and tell us the work that's been done since you I'm not sure how long you've lived there or the work that's been done in the meantime yeah I've been here I think five or maybe almost six years now um when the state milled the road hour's Road I got a load of millings to level out my driveway and it expanded a little bit it's a little bit more than I bargain for um part of that being I had an open septic permit um to do a septic here but I had no way of getting a truck and our machines back here without doing that um and then the other I guess behind the driveway this just leveling it off and I don't know having a yard okay um John quick question on the open septic was that within a resource area like 100 feet from the wetlands I believe Amy had a copy of the plans yeah that was a um RDA from I believe 2019 okay so you completed the septic and then you had some extra millings and they've helped make the construction access for that is that correct no I had an open permit for a septic I did not complete a septic but I had no way I had no egress to access it and in the meantime that was just kind of making an easement I guess okay commissioners I guess I it's not entirely clear to me John maybe if you can walk us through sequentially like on this date we did this on this date we did this approximate fine just let's say before there was any construction work going on when did you start doing anything and then Amy it might be helpful for the Commissioners if you have photographs or I know Tim had some yeah I'd say honor about 2020 I leveled out the backyard a little bit it kind of as the commissioner came and did the Salk last weekend saw the the yard kind of pitched down on a slope down to the wetlands area and I just made the slope a little bit steeper in some spots to level out the back yard and then honor about maybe a year ago or a year and a half ago I whenever they build po Road and I got a load of millings the first night and spread them in my driveway can you all see that okay it looks funny on my screen yep no we can see it thank you John are you aware of the wetlands protection act and that jurisdiction is within the 100 to zero of wetlands and resource areas well I wasn't aware that what I was doing had any repercussions to be honest with you I I figured outside of the wetlands are 50 foot Zone it wasn't really a big deal I guess I was mistaken which is why we're here okay well I know that as the commiss as the Commissioners who came and did the S sidewalk last weekend saw no work was pered in the Wetland or relatively close to the wetlands so nothing was done within 100 feet maybe our definitions are relatively closer a little different I mean I I did a little bit my backyard is the 50 Foot buffer zone okay that I believe my mailbox is my 100 foot you know I I redid a patio commission saw last weekend I redid the patio that was existing there you know I have a Sandbox for my kids I just leveled it off to have grass so the kids could play I guess I didn't realize it was a big deal to be within uh 100t but I guess I'm right at the 50 Foot which I didn't realize so so John can you see what's on the screen with the Aerials I'm sorry can you say it again yep John on the zoom call can you see what is being projected in the meeting which shows your house at some period of time and then more recently that shows a bouldering wall and what looks like structures as well uh I cannot see what you got what you're talking about the structure I believe would be I have a Pergola on top of my Pao and my kids have a playhouse next to their sandbox was an existing shed there that is still there I I don't think he has video at all okay Amy what is the year I don't have video okay Amy what is the year of the first picture the slide uh the left side is 2019 I believe 2019 April 2019 and the right side is April 2024 so John it looks good so the aial that goes over the town a couple times a year so it doesn't just pick up Wetlands it picks up structures as well so you'll be we can see a before an after of some of the work that's significant work that's been done since 2019 Commissioners comments I mean we're at we're at the point now right where what we're trying to do is we're we've got an enforcement order in place so the question is really what is the the potential resolution of the enforcement order right right yep we have to get engineer and before we go down that path I think you're pulling it up right now Amy but we we are comfortable with the Wetland delineation here that was that was approved a handful of years ago yeah we couldn't see none none of the flag were left um but I looked at these flags back in 2019 so I think they're probably a good enough representation okay so you can see on here this is the uh the road of dender that keeps popping up um so that's what maybe 45t or so from the Wetland and this is the 50 Foot that cuts across this is the existing driveway the the original driveway the end of that okay 100 is out here somewhere so then can you go back to the slide that had the RO to dendron on the side of the house maybe fortunately I have to keep stop sharing and re-sharing yep no I know Mr McAn you owned the house in 2019 when you did the septic request I don't own the house a trust owns the house that was the previous owner I think who did the septic I no I to my knowledge a septic has not been done I said that there was a permit for a septic okay thank you you're welcome I mean at this point it seems like what we need from the from Mr Mogan the is restoration right we should give him the bounds of what the restoration needs to look like but I think that's the next St right yes correct John are you familiar the commission's been trying to get in touch with you for quite some time yeah I talked with Amy about this we we had multip phone calls in between here is there was three meetings that I missed where I was busy for and I apologized during our walkth through but you know it's not I wasn't dodging or anything I was busy on three Tuesday nights I had plans prior to this happening and like I had mentioned Amy I'm a single father of two kids it's busy it's not busy like playing around having fun with friends it's busy right and we can all appreciate that but we are the parents of the wetlands and so that's why we have to for task to look at these violations so um I think the Commissioners if you want to take notes where we are which is in the enforcement order as well that there are action items that need to be taken very quickly is there a commissioner that would like to outline that for Mr M Megan Megan thank you Andrew Kyle so s just to let you we kind of talked about this a little bit um we didn't go into a lot of detail on site walk just it was just Michael and I and Amy there so we didn't get into deliberations or discussions but um we mentioned that waiver the waiver process and that that would be required this would be a tough a tough sell to you know apply and receive a waiver to I think it's there's a whole lot of feedback coming back from your all right this sorry thank you though um so we talked about you know the public benefit um what you what could be done um and am these are kind of down at the toe of the slope um so like Mr said it he didn't touch the toe of the slope he just made that toe the the slope itself steeper um there's some rubble and debris in there that asphalt you know I assume came from from what was milled up that should probably be removed but that SL was actually surprisingly stable um I didn't see I think there was a little bit of erosion that we saw that Amy pointed out um but didn't seem to be carrying anything down into the Wetland or even down to the toe of the slope here but any we started talking about the waiver and how to receive approval of that from us and we talked about a few different options um one of those that came up that was kind of interesting or intriguing was the lack of mowing that we have going on we're losing our sources of Mowing and with him owning or having the property right next to the trails here that nobody seems to want to tackle with their own equipment um Mr rean seemed willing to maybe help but as part of as part of working with us here um he also has a significant amount of plantings out in the front that I noticed I don't know if I didn't grab any photos of it but um the front yard is vastly different than what that overhead showed um there's got to be a dozen or so plantings out there that I think we could work that into some sort of restoration plan um or I'm not sure what else or where else you know plantings would come into play so we try we're trying to think outside the box a little bit here can you go to back to the side by sides the 2019 and current because what we were showing is that 45 ft to the wetlands was where the rod dendrons are and so I'm curious where the boulders are in proximity to the wetlands and then the other structures that are there so you now have equipment being parked there there's additional structures a lot more structures there really isn't that's all equipment I mean the only structures that are out there are the pergola on the patio and the playhouse and sandbox that everything else that you're looking at is equipment and can be removed moved somewhere else I guess and I guess here Kyle so like uh let's assume North is up and let's Orient ourselves off that redon it looks like on the photo on the left the 2019 photo that Rota dendron is right at the top of the slope when we look at the 2024 photo looks like that slope has been pushed out but it sounded like what you were saying was it maybe didn't look like that in the field can you no no I think that is that is what happened but what so the slope itself the tow didn't it yeah yeah please yeah no I appreciate what you just said a minute ago because I I didn't really reiterate that the toe of the slope never changed so if it was you know a 50 foot run over foot drop it's now just a 10 foot drop over 10et it's a it's a lot steeper but the toe of the slope never changed I I was only up working like right behind my house and that seems i' more than I'd be more than willing to let any other Commissioners come by and do another s sidewalk I just I don't know I really didn't think what I was doing was against the rules per se and like commiss just said i' I'd be willing to do more plantings blueberry bushes help help out in other ways um and like you said I live right next to this trail that I see the traffic that goes in and out of it and it's not much I walk down there with my kids and The Field's overgrown Sam used to mow it once or maybe twice a year and then more people would come for a little bit but once it gets too tall it's just like unusable almost so and I appreciate that we have to think of you know 5 10 15 20 30 years from now who's the next person that's going to live in that house we could end up with a contractor's yard in the back that we've already pushed I could really simplify it I will not move I will be here in 5 10 15 30 years okay so Amy can you go back to that that slide previously so what we've done with enforcement orders is that we've asked for um environmental a wetland specialist to kind of look at this and see what is in that bank and what we've added to that is that the one you met is that something that you guys would pay for or no we're not the we're not the one that's in violation so it's it's the terms of of the homeowner or wh or whomever did the work in a buff like Kyle said with the asphalt I got from the road I'd be happy to get the chunks out of there or any of the debris like you guys said what was the dimensions the cubic yardage that you put in there oh I don't know how many truckloads uh maybe four so that's Phil that if you'd come to the commission wouldn't have been allowed to go in there because of the area you're within feet of the wetlands oh I so that is like exactly what what we're here for I didn't realize I was just trying to make it accessible for a machine or a truck to be able to come into the backyard for the septic you know it wasn't a malicious attack attempt at you know fooling you guys I really didn't think it was I clearly did not go into the wetlands and in my opinion I stayed well enough away that nothing went in there was no contamination to the wetlands and you know and like Kyle said the the slope is extremely stable 90% of the slope is grown in with 7 foot grass weeds you name it you know the the one the one spot that isn't grown in is just where the asphalt the stuff I pushed back is so sir if if uh let's say let's think of it this way if the property owner were to come to us today and say hey I would like to expand or level out my yard I can Envision us saying You Can level it out to the 50 Foot buffer but not any closer to that than that um okay so perhaps but you would also perhaps understand but you're also thinking that you would use defined clean fill and you would probably have such top soil that you would be able to not make a parking lot but you would be able to have vegetation such that the water would still make its way down through the soil down to the wetlands so 100% so what what I'm I want to do though is I want to think of this if if the property owner came to us seeking a permit we would say likely humor me out he remember me here we would say okay you can level out your yard to the 50 Foot line with clean soil in a way that doesn't create an erosion problem but beyond that we are not going to allow you to fill in and so I would expect the restoration plan here to bring it into a condition that we otherwise would have approved and I think along those lines we also would have said it needs to be adequately vegetated with an appropriate Wetland seed mix and you may need to plant some let's say additional um additional shrubs or blueberries or something and we may want to see you know some sort of demarcation so that you don't go past the 50 Foot line with this um so I I I think that's the framework that we want though is if if the the property owner came to us what would we have allowed and then we frame the restoration to bring it back to what we would have allowed and I think there's a difference between a yard versus a parking lot 100% agree i' like to I'd like to the only parking lot near me is next door that's conservation parking lot I have a yard all we can do is look at the aerial that's been just just because it's dirt without grass it's not a parking lot I just want to make that very clear maybe the aerial you have is older or it looks it's less grown in but dated 2024 yeah and in April but as the commissioner said who came out a week ago it's not it's not exactly what it seems in that picture where you're claiming I also have structures back there it's a Pergola and a child's it's a playhouse that are both definitely outside of the 5050 50 foot buffer and the the pergola is on top of a patio that was existing yeah I mean can you scroll back up yeah kind of this these couple photos this is this is what it looks like now Sarah I mean it's it's like 100 pictures she has this is the road right so I agree that this needs you there isn't going to be work done on the septic anytime soon this needs to be better vegetated this one picture that she's showing now and then this the top picture and this is kind of the end of the driveway and like I I guess we come back to commission okay so I think that what we would do is structure it so that there would have to be an engineer like we do with all enforcement orders to kind of look at the site and give you guidance how to get it back to a naturalized state is that something I could get like a verbal on or is that something I need to pay for and schedule and have like or is it something I could have someone come by look at it tell me what what to happen and I reiterate that to you or are you looking for like an invoice from them no what we're looking for here is to resolve this enforcement order we need a restoration plan and what Sarah is saying is that you need a professional to put the plan together what is the layout going to be and that's got to identify at a minimum these things it's got to identify the current let's say boundaries it's got to identify what soil and material you're going to pull back to return it to the grades that it was at before within the 50 Foot and what are the grades going to be for within the 50 to 100 foot areas uh it's also got to include what are you going to vegetate it with uh both in terms of seed mixes and plantings it's got to include where are the current Wetland resources you could probably draw that off of the the existing RDA um and it's also got to include some Accounting in this case for how are you going to um let's say in areas outside of 50 feet how are you going to to remedy the fact that there are essentially unacceptable soils in there so what what else me need to be pulled back and replaced and rated there so what we're looking for is a a drawn plan to show that as part of the restoration at least that's what I'm looking for Sarah does that sound sound reasonable right which is what we do with everyone but John the the the way this is going to work is that you're G to come up with a plan to restore it then you're going to bring that plan to us we're going to work with you to say okay this makes sense this meets the objectives of the wetlands protection act and the the the town bylaws uh or maybe it doesn't and we work with you to make those changes then you go Implement that then once that's implemented we withdraw the enforcement order the way we typically work here though is that as long as a property owner or uh an applicant is is let's say essentially working in good faith with us and making progress you know I understand there were some challenges in the beginning we don't intend to I think issue tickets as long as everyone's working in good faith so I think what we're going to do here is likely set a timeline for you to provide to the commission a plan for restoration and as long as you meet those timelines we're all good and we'll just sort of work through the process and get it done if we struggle to meet those timelines that's when things get sticky so I'm glad you mentioned something about the tickets um because I still have $8,000 in tickets okay John I I I understand you want to talk about that L can we can we put a pin in that for a second so we at least understand what the process is going to be here and then we can come back to that no I I I think we're I think I'm on the same page as you as long as everybody else is so we meet again on August 20th and then again on September 10th Commissioners when would you like to see a plan I don't think it's feasible to have that for August 20th I think based on how busy Engineers are someone that's qualified I would shoot for the September 10th plan I agree with that Sarah I don't think two weeks is reasonable September 10 yeah better so what I would say now that we have had our first discussion even though that we've tried to have this for numerous meetings I would say we can cease the tickets until such time as September 10th as Chase mentioned in good faith so in the meantime is that something that I still pursue through the court so additional tickets would not be issued as of now because you've now actually started meetings with us there's no longer been avoidance of the last there was the walk through like a week and a half ago there were three meetings that were missed so John you're talking about the existing tickets that been been issued my my preference here is I I I'm not comfortable let's say um waving those tickets and if you choose to appeal those tickets you would need to do th my understanding is through the court and follow that administrative process I'm I'm not comfortable taking any action on those right now awesome okay so to be clear and we can have the Amy send you an email tomorrow outlining the things that we've discussed that would be at minimum to be performance items for the order of itions but we are already now late for our public hearings so um do you have any other qu questions nope okay okay thank you thank you for joining us we'll see you September 10th all right so we're gonna go ahead and hold off on Amy who else is in attendance is 30y Warren here 30 wor here and uh the mwani draw down are here right let's go ahead and do mwaniki right now um we'll move Dave bar over Amy I can't get Dave bar moved over on my end okay Dave we're going to give you about two minutes can we have an update on the mwaniki draw down please you're muted Dave Dave you're muted how's that good thank go ahead okay sorry uh my name is Dave bar I live at 49 mwan Trail I'm uh member of FR Forge Pond Lon clean L committee um and uh we do uh annual winter draw Downs uh on Lake banaki Forge Pond to um try to manage the um invasive plants that uh grow in the lake um they are not always successful but they in the past they've been successful every few years which seems to be enough has been enough to control the plants to a certain extent um this past winter uh it was not a successful draw down uh we started uh middle of October as needed we were back up to normal levels by beginning of April as needed um the weather was very warm so uh even though we got the lake level down to within a little over a foot from the target depth um there was um pretty much all winter the precipitation was rain so instead of staying on the Uplands as snow it flowed into the lake and the lake levels came back up and the weather was warm so um having low levels and two weeks of Frozen temperatures wasn't uh neither one of those um was successful so we don't think this last winter the draw down uh really uh helped to uh mitigate the the plants uh and I just would mention that um Last Summer the level of plants in the lake was extremely high um uh people that live on the lake for their whole life said that this is the worst that they've ever seen it um we have some ideas as to why that is um we weren't sure whether that was going to be a oneoff or a new level uh this year the lake the level of plants in the lake was is similar so um we're afraid it may be the new normal anything else Dave going forward um we'll do it again uh this fall um I don't know whether you want to hear reports on the echo harvesting or the benic mats that we also have projects for I think we would but with our time constraints right now we do have to get going on that so perhaps we can add that to the next meeting if that's okay with the commission yeah that's can I ask question about this though sure curious can you explain the draw down process like what what what's the mechanism for drawing it down and why you're not able to keep it down yeah um so there's a uh there are two main streams into the lake and a few other minor ones and uh there's an outlet to the lake which goes into Stonybrook in Westford there's a dam at Abbott Mill in Westford and um the uh process to draw down is to uh uh remove stop logs in a channel next to the dam that goes around the dam and uh that um increases the flow uh around around the D Dam so that um the the water level is dropped um we uh we have uh several reasons why it is difficult um the the ones that were especially a problem this last winter was the the fact that it was too warm so that U this precipitation didn't stay on the Upland as snow uh but flowed into the lake and kept the water level coming up yeah I get that you have inflow inflow right engineer work with Dan I get that but you stop the stop logs are those wooden structures right you should be able to continue to remove those right if you need to drop take an extra one out to keep up unless you're minimized by the amount of flow you can send Downstream or have you taken out all the stop logs that you're able to and that's can't I are structure you could empty your pond if you wanted to right so there are eight aluminum stop logs um uh the there is one uh pipe uh it's a three or 4T diameter I I forget what the diameter is um and all the stop logs are removed uh there's no flow over the dam when the uh lake is low because the um Dam uh uh lip is too high so the only way we have uh to um bring water out is through the uh auxiliary outlet pipe all the stop logs are removed um but so that's uh as much as we can do um okay so yeah so the inflow exceeds the outflow that that you have too much going in it can't keep up going out the that outlet structure is INS sized appropriately is what it sounds like uh there is there continues to be flow coming in from the from the tributaries into the lake um in a cold winter um we don't have precipitation also coming into the lake it stays up uh as snow so that reduces the amount of flow coming out so we have basically flow going out equal to what the flow coming into in the tributaries is and even that is um uh in a lot of winters more than uh we can handle with the outlet uh channel to um uh keep the the lake level low um and this year you can see we had it down to um almost 2011 which is about a foot and a quarter above the target depth but then uh throughout um December and January uh the uh and then again in early March uh the the water level came up but because of precipitation um we do have some other constraints on um you know uh how how much can go out uh we uh the the outlet channel is not as low as it could be we we did um bring that down uh a bit um a a few years ago as a as a project um to try to Inc increase the flow through the outlet Channel um uh we're still trying to see whether how successful that was uh we have uh funding this year uh to do an engineering study to look at uh uh H&H Hydraulics and hydrology studies for uh a few uh possible changes to the structures and and such that might improve the uh outflow uh during draw Downs to help us bring the water level down um that's good to hear that that's what I was I mean that's where I was going basically was you need to it it's not that you have a new Norm you need to adjust to what we're dealing with right like you can't be comfortable with what what your new Norm is right if you're if you're dealing with these invasives that shouldn't be there and the way to help mitigate that is with these draw Downs you there's a way to make these draw Downs work so I'm happy to hear that you're moving in that direction that you'll be able to get there because if everything is Si and functioning you'll get the level you need to get to yeah well uh so the things that we're that we're studying would hopefully increase the outflow uh which would help uh but if the uh weather in the winter stays warm uh so that we don't get our two weeks of freezing temperature then uh even if the water is is low uh the draw Downs have limited um success and we your engineer your engineer will be well aware of that with what's what's changing and what they need to design those for so that's yeah it's good to hear that you'll be studying that thank you yeah sure okay thank you Dave and thank you k for the question um Amy is 30 Warren here yes all right we're going to hold off on after 301 then we'll go to the 7:45 for three Cottage Way let's go ahead I want to address this enforcement order for 30 Warren Street uh permitted construction of a walkway within the buffer zone and work in the year backyard um Casey if you're here if you can acknowledge your full name and where you reside and bring us up to date please yes um Casey calenberg I live at 44 Warren Street and I'm here on behalf of um my property on 30 Warren Street okay it's been quite some time can you bring us up to date please yes um I do want to apologize for all the delays that have occurred over the summer uh you had stated earlier that it'd be difficult to get environmental engineer to work in the summer and that has been the case but I've been working with Chuck from Karen environmental who he had was able come out on 19th of June take soil samples look at the property line walk it and he came out again on 31 July um he's basically been on vacation All Summer in Maine and comes down came down with two times so he came down on 31 July walked the land and he has come up with a wetland restoration plan for me and I have submitted it to Amy and Tim um so there is may I ask Casey when was that submitted when was what submitted your restoration plan uh he sent me an email just a couple days ago uh I sent it to Amy this afternoon not realizing that I had that she not part of the email because uh I've been very for up front about including Tam and Amy and all my communications with Tam I mean uh Chuck so uh that's it right there sorry I see it now so yeah we we just got this this afternoon right so um Casey just to understand we have to have things submitted Thursday the week before so that way the Commissioners can actually read these documents so um I'm confident that Chuck is thorough but I have not he's thorough but I don't think I got it on the Thursday prior I apologize about any um time conflict date conflicts are there any plan are there any plans with this or just a narrative there's a narrative there's no uh drawings at this point Commissioners what would you like to do if that's what you mean yep yep thank you uh what I would propose in lie of a drawing is potentially to ask the property owner to uh mark it out in the field right like what what are we G to actually do so we could go take a look at it between now and the next um the next meeting and we can reconcile sort of what the plan is looking at it in the field with what's written on the page and then potentially give them the green light to proceed or make uh modifications accordingly okay that sounds fair and just to let you know he did put blue flags out on the demarcation of the the Wetland area and do you feel comfortable based on his notes and your meetings with him that you can set approximate Stakes or do you need him to come down down to set those ideally when we set a s sidewalk we would like to have your engineer there um yeah I think the written instructions are pretty thorough but um if you if it's better for you I can I can see if you can come down on uh whatever given date we can come up with so we can look at it together sure whatever you recommend I'll go with so we meet on August 20th so ideally we like to have it done before the 19th I mean okay the the better way to do this Casey would also be to have some kind of marked up drawing here to help us understand conceptually what we're doing I I don't think it needs to be a incredibly detailed survey drawn but I think something to conceptually memorialize what we're we're doing here to go along with what we see in the field would be helpful all right I can um I can get with chuck on that and um we can do that no problem Commissioners do we want to set a tenative site walk prior to the 20th While most of us are here that sounds good we want to shoot for Monday the 19th so we give them solid week and a half anybody available what time are we talking Casey what time on August 19th uh just let you know that I coach cross country and that is my first um practice from 3 5 I also work until 1 but I believe I can I can get off work early it's getting out of work is no problem right now I think the after five might work for some of the Commissioners after five yeah would it be possible to do it after practice K Casey oh yeah sure I might linger a little bit with the kids um but yeah imagine your first practice could go a little long right um do we want to say six we should have plenty of light okay six o'cl works for me 100% all right Monday the 18th I mean Monday the 19th I apologize it's 6 PM so if you could Circle back with Chuck that would be great and then if you could put a placeholder for August 20th to come and meet again with us okay okay yeah thank you have a good night oh you too good night good night Casey it's currently 8:20 we're going to go ahead and open the 7:45 continued public hearing notice of intent three Cottage way there's not as of tonight A MD number bylaw waiver is required rebuilding the Gazebo and the dock permit I think we were all set but we did we were just waiting on the D number yeah Jim is coming in if you have any questions and he did um I worked with him he did submit um a wave and more information on the doc so that can be okay fit it into T okay great um thank you for joining us Mr Willis sorry to keep you waiting as we had stated before at the last meeting we're unable to close this officially until we have your official D number so is there anything that has been added that we need to discuss am I think we've we've provided or I've provided everything that was requested of me from what I can tell so far okay so with the commissioner's permission do we need to have Mr Willis come in for August 20th would you like or provided that the D number is provided what is your preference sorry I at the risk of say inconveniencing the applicant on the outside chance a DEC DEC D has a comment that might need to be responded to we probably do need to ask Mr Willis to come in that's great so Mr Willis with your um permission we would like to extend this public hearing to August 20th and Amy will let you know what timing is for that meeting so that means that you like me to come back on the 20th yeah yes please yeah unfortunately we need to ask you to come back yeah just in case somebody has some comments from the EP all right thank you sorry to keep your waiting okay okay thank you have a good night okay it's now 8:22 we're going to open the 8:00 pm continued public hearing notice of intent 13 Wing Cove Road no D number uh bylaw waiver required Demolition and reconstruction of existing house and Associated work DP did assign a number after the agenda went out okay what's the number 10 uh one8 um and their only comment was that if there's any chapter 91 issues they should be addressed so that's being done and Kyle you heard that that it's one8 the the do number yeah yeah D sorry yeah I got an email in regards to that as well okay great so this is a continued discussion um we've had a couple s sidewalks anyone want to share pictures plans Kyle know that you submitted a plan um Amy do you happen to have that do you have a Kyle so you can uh I do yeah I can you can control it yourself yeah maybe it might be best while we're doing that is just talk about things that were discussed or learned and kind of going forward from the two s sidewalks that are there um I know I I think the Commissioners would like to learn about some of the existing drainage system that was put in as well which I learned about on the sidewalk yeah yeah so the drainage that I put into it we talked about all the runoff and this had come up in um year years prior the uh the runoff actually comes all the way down the street down through the drive um I had installed this drainage area to um recover all of that water um no no water from up here goes beyond that point now so that that problem has has been um resolved and then uh you know we we moved down back we we touched on the the trees that got removed those um years back as well and uh in in lie of that um you know during the site walk um you know I think everybody noticed that there there are still a lot a lot of trees I have I have 15 trees just on the shoreline you know I I I I like the trees you know I I've saved as many as as we're we're safe too um safe and and in L of the trees that have been removed I propose some some plantings that are in this drawing that are shown um all along the the top of the slope area here um you know this would be kind of stabilized with um bark mulch or or even ground cover in between these plantings which are proposed to be uh low Bush blueberry and uh a mix of L bu blueberry and some Rod dendrin viscosum swamp ailia I guess is another term for that um and then I was going to plant some some birch trees as well um the number in the of these things you know I'm I'm pretty open to um your thoughts as well now that everybody has seen the site um questions and concerns and you know suggestions are all open so I know that you had um so Matt's not able to be here with you tonight has he been offering any kind of insight to you I know that Matt was supposed to help you with submitting the waiver yeah I thought I think he did that I thought he did that there was a couple emails went back and forth we've got a few waivers now there's a few waivers on the website yeah and and we've been discussing the plantings and things like that um the waivers I had uh pretty much left up to mat I I thought that that had been taken care of I think that there was another uh that there was another dock that he needed to add onto the dock waiver whether he did or not yeah he he's in Florida at a family reunion so he will be here for the next discussion so going through the minutes from the last meeting there was a comment that it says the commission asked that Mr Marl break down the existing and proposed square footage by house deck and path yeah I have all those numbers um here I didn't the engineer didn't have time to actually plot these drawings and numbers on the plan but the numbers that I have are um they were brought they were figured through the engineer through his methods with with the thing so are those are those available to you that you can just verbalize to us so so the existing deck is 697 square feet in total and uh oh this this plan's just proposed so it's it's not on this this plan I can bring up that plan if you need that would take a minute um let's just let's um let's just Kyle go through the three things so the deck the house and the path okay so let's them one at a time so the existing deck is 697 Square ft the existing house is 1431 Square ft Y and the the patio patios and walkways to be removed are 558 square feet so just to consistent to be removed is what you're considering as existing okay yeah yeah everything that's existing now yeah that that is currently on the site okay so now let's go through with proposed for deck house patio okay so the so the proposed the proposed deck is 608 square feet and the proposed dwelling is, 1868 but inside the 100 foot buffer is 1644 Square ft so the the the structure inside the 100 foot buffer is 1644 and the proposed deck which is inside the 100 foot buffer is 608 and then the other square footage whatever the difference is is is outside of the 100 foot buffer do you so to compare apples to apples with the house the 1431 do you know how much of that is in the buffer the entire existing structure is in the buffer and uh the there's 53 Square ft of it inside the 50ft buffer and the entire 697 squ feet of deck is in um actually sorry that's not correct because some of the deck goes down the side um I'd say probably 500 s feet of the existing deck is in the 50 so this this work proposes just I I unfortunately the only good way to make this work to meet property offsets was the the stairs because of the elevation difference in the property these Pro proposed stairs do go slightly into the um into the the 50 Ju Just the stairs there'd be no footing involved in uh in the bottom of that but the deck itself and all footings would be outside of the 50 Foot buffer so I have not I'll be honest I have not read the waiver what for those have that's not helpful yeah I cannot help you unfortunately all right I I thought Matt would be here he just told me this morning that that he okay so we'll blame it on him so yeah I think the Commissioners know where I'm going he like I want to know what else is in that waiver because if those stairs are the only thing that's in that waiver we've told other people just make it easier and get rid of that I know you're doing I mean the work we the demolition would also be inside the waiver of the existing stru right but the demolition is moving it's not staying okay yeah I can I can I can work those stairs in a in differently and pull them out of the 50 uh foot buff does any of the Commissioners follow me on that or my splitting hairs about that that the last time we looked at this that the I thought you would said you were going to turn the stairs to get them out of the 50 uh so I the stairs and the original plan went all the way down to the patio and uh I mean just the this is the way I was hoping to do it but I can uh CH change the stairs entirely to be out of the out of the 50 okay Andrew you had a question or comment oh no I was just gonna say so essentially we're just going to pull the steers out of the 50 Foot so the waiver wouldn't be required at that point I think still require the waiver for the demolition of existing but y Demolition and restoration of that area would be in the waiver but that's on a that's on a positive side leaving the steps would be on a negative side so the steps will be out on the the next plan so this was like a given that Matt's not here and I didn't have time or the engineer didn't have time to actually plot um all of these you know I was just hoping to kind of get get your opinion on what's here and you know obviously suggestions of the the stair removal um absolutely we can remove that and uh you know so I want to share something with the Commissioners that we talked about when um Andrew was there and and Amy when I was out so one thing I when we remove um that area that's then going to be vegetated what I really don't want to see is manicured lawn because I'm still fearful with all these rains and the slope that things over time if it's really dry and we get a rain it's just going to bounce and go down that in the further in one of the further sections of your lot you have separate areas of of plantings and it breaks it up and they're diverse I would look and hope that you would do something like that to break it up and not have it so it's all grass and so that it's really able to infiltrate whether we call it a rain Garden or something or whatever um that's something going forward that I'd like to see you and Matt marrow work on and then one of my other questions from that day was when the house gets moved where is all the roof drainage going can it be captured in that drainage system uh so uh yes the roof runoff um will be in collected entirely um from the proposed structure where the existing structure there's no um roof runoff collected at all um it all just runs you know there's a gutter over the deck that just drops into the into the ground um there there's no erosion issues on on the property but you know given given that it's a proposed Welling and you know obviously everything we're going through I'm going to gather all the drainage run off the elevations work to where gravity is going to so there's going to be this wall here the gutter will will drop down where where my cursor is for the rear of the structure cutter will drop down here get gathered by this pipe that's labeled D for drain um it'll also gather where my cursor is here and then run to this drainage area um and then as far as the plantings go I did draw some can we hold up one second on the drainage can you do you know what the capacity of volume is in that system um it's a very large drainage system I I configure all the square footage and stuff like that I I honestly didn't because um I I don't think I didn't know Cals were necessary for but this this gathers an incredible amount of water you know when we're getting three inches of rain I'll walk out there and it'll be like a cyclone at this drain and I'll look in and there's no standing water in these pits there's it's an open bottom uh there's six 4x4x4 foot uh concrete Chambers with three feet of stone all the way around them and uh there is never there has never been standing water in there um if there was I would maintain it by removing this cover and having a v truck suck whatever debris that's causing it to clog up out of there um this drainage system is definitely crucial to the property so I I'll you know I I actually myself looking it often to make sure that it is working and uh you know like like I said there's there's it takes an incredible amount of water and as far as Drainage Systems go it's you know much greater than whatever would be proposed engineering wise I I don't know why I put such a large system in but Kyle I do have a couple questions about that if if you'll entertain them um one is make sure I understand it so the current dwelling doesn't discharge any any of the gutters to that drainage system correct it's all just downspouts yeah yeah um there's no gutters on the house the existing house at all except for over the deck not at all except for that right that there's that one little one over the deck right okay um here's what I'm concerned about and I I I think this will be fine but given that the proposed dwelling covers more area than the existing dwelling um our threshold I think it's 5% additional impervious area um we need to think about the storm water implications here and even though you've said it's oversized I think we need to prove that it is oversized enough to accommodate both the runoff from the driveway and the runoff from the house going into it because what's what's coming off the house is not currently going into it and and that's particularly challenged here because we're going to have a new drain system that's got to go back the other way right the the drain from the house has got to run to it which is opposite the direction of the surface grade and one of the things I'm concerned about here is that you're going to have to create you're going to have to pipe into that drainage system which means in an extreme event the water could conceivably go the other way right the water doesn't have to go out the top now because we've got a pipe into it and we've got to hit the slope that we need to get the water from the house back into it so what I would like to understand this is almost certainly going to require an engineer to to certify this that the existing system the existing drainage system is sufficient to handle the runoff from the house and the driveway considering the invert that that drainage pipe is going to come into it okay so I'll just what I'll do I I understanding everything you're saying um yes if this search charge as any drainage system in you know 50 100 gear storms could could very well search charge um you know it definitely could find this pipe and head back this way I think we we'll forget about this we'll call this the driveway drainage system and over here where my cursor is I'll just you know for the square footage of the roof I'll propose a new drainage system and it will be right here so that way we'll eliminate that we'll make sure the elevations are all good it'll out of the 100 foot buffer and just right in this this area right here if that sounds okay going uphill yeah we're still going to need I think because we've got additional impervious area here someone to sign off on the the infiltration capacity of that is sufficient to accommodate uh design storm so your design said I didn't know drainage CS were required on individual um structures we didn't that's actually why we asked you for the areas and your areas are big enough to require the drainage cels okay yeah there not that you want to but you can make the house smaller and then I won't require the drainage cels but that's probably not what you're looking for I get it we have babies there's too many I I can I can provide drainage Cs on the on the square footage of this structure and I will propose a separate drainage system for the roof run up that's conceptually fine with me honestly either way it's fine with me I just want to make sure that we're we're handling the drainage correctly and we're not creating something that's gonna we're going to come to regret yeah okay chase you said that the impervious is bigger in the new but is it really at least within the 100 anyway because he's got 680 some OD deck uh and the numbers sounded to me like what's inside the 100 comes almost a wash that yes the total numbers are bigger because so much of it is outside the 100 so understand the numbers honestly I would ask for this analysis in any case he just doesn't need to go through the whole storm water uh BMP checklist but what I heard was the existing deck was 697 the proposed deck is 608 and the existing house is 1431 and the new house within the buffer zone is 1644 when you do that math just within the hund bigger it is bigger yeah and so we end much but it is slightly bigger slightly bigger y yeah and and is your other concern I'm just trying to I'm learning here too so I apologize um for interrupting on your questions but the fact that he's putting gutters and piping the gutters to the drainage if he were not doing that with that changed the requirements at all no in fact he what he's doing is if he didn't have a system to capture drainage already planned we would probably say you need a system to capture drainage all right so Kyle's already I'm just just trying to make sure I you know learning as I go thank you y um and I just just for for my knowledge and nothing else um is the deck considered um in an impervious area as well as like like consider the same as the house roof I guess it's an interesting question Kyle I I think that's a matter of perspective I think in your case regardless of whether you count it or don't you end up in the same spot but we've typically counted them as impervious yeah even though right water will eventually it tends to channelize water and concentrate flows okay yeah and OB underneath the entire square footage of the deck will be Crush St so that'll gather the water through the deck um as well and typically we've allowed that right to have let's say different uh storm water capture systems right so underneath the deck it because it's crushed stone that should absorb that water without too much of a challenge and then the the roof goes into a drywall okay um the other piece that though that I I think we would want to memorialize and this doesn't need to be a long drwn out thing and I I know you all plan on being in that house forever but I I do think we want a some sort of om andm commitment associated with how to maintain that right like it a A dryw or if it's piped into the drainage system is only as good as the maintenance of it so think about that it could be as simple as a onepage here are the things that we do on an annual basis right we don't ask for a a big industrial storm water omm plan for residential property owners but it is something that I'd like to make sure is on file so that someday when you do sell this house the new owner gets that and goes oh here's what I need to do okay yeah when you said put another um drainage in the grass area near the garage is that because to the square footage of no I get that but is the reason why you were thinking a second one so you can make it deep enough to pitch the the dra the gutter drains and not have any problems um I just was after we go it's like for this drain it's like where do you stop you know I I I repaired this isue entire Road you know this water where my cursor is coming and this was not not new from when I moved in for the entire time the when it pours the water was cruising down so we can just rather than figure square footage of the driveway into the system for the roof I'll just we we we know this is working write up an onm plan for this and I'll provide a separate drainage system for the roof fair enough I just was curious what is the proposed well so I came to terms with the fact that I need to move my well so the Well's there I came to that on my own conclusion that kind of stinks doesn't it terrible yeah it's not ideal but it is what it is it's beneficial actually for all the neighboring properties I'm I'm getting a larger separation from this neighbor septic and well and up getting down kind of out of her way here her her existing septics up over here and obviously when she goes to rebuild she's not going to be doing anything down here so it's a good spot for everybody involved and Kyle I would expect that we will condition that so that when that well is developed we'll have a clear set of expectations about how that that development water is handled we we've seen scenar being drilled yeah yeah exactly I think all all very doable but expect conditions around that yeah so the Well Company I talked to I think has a pretty detailed description of of what to do with with that the slur whatever you know when they're drilling so I'll I'll hopefully be able to provide that the Thursday before the next meeting as well as you know a a plan that's not handdrawn more uh and and Kyle talk to Amy about that in terms of on that on your sheets to call that out that if there has to be a proposed dewatering area and also how you're going to rectify keeping all the the filings and tilling right there so just talk to Amy about that that language we see it often enough but I would definitely throw it in now versus later okay yeah I I need to ask the Board of Health for a variance for the the well location too so I'll I'll talk with them and try and figure out if I should go through that bearings process before you know asking you guys so that I they down the specific location but um ideally I'll get a veral on that I I think uh we could live with a like a larger circle like the proposed well will be in this general area as long as we understand the process by which you are going to implement the drilling yeah yeah um any other Commissioners have questions I think there is one piece we've still got to sort out here Sarah and that's the that's the the patio that is to remain and but for that patio and looking at how it was installed I'm going to tell you I think without a permit I'm okay with what we've got here and I think it makes good sense the challenge I'm having here is when we look back at the record and we look back at the Aerials it doesn't look like that patio was ever installed with a permanent and I think we need to talk about how that's all going to fit together here um and there could be an argument that pulling the house outside of the 50 let's take a step back right if we were to think of this presuming for a second that that patio was in installed without a permit um if that patio was part of this application would we allow it if the house was being hold so much farther back from the Wetland right the existing house is much closer maybe there's an argument that the stone Pao could be installed if the house goes farther back but I I'm not super comfortable with just not addressing the fact that the patio was not permitted I don't think it was permitted anyway no it was not permanent um so yeah hopefully we can look at all the positives I think that yeah and so I think this is where Commissioners I think Kylie if you have suggestions of how do you kind of get above that in terms of on the on the positive side but there might be an opportunity to ask the Commissioners the other Commissioners because seems like Chase and I are the only ones that ever talk to see if there's other suggestions anywhere on the site of what else you can do like I do like the fact that you've that you are picking up the additional drainage from the house from the roof because I think that that's that's always we're always like really grappling to get owners to do that so yeah I've prop proposed all these these plantings that um as I I want to stress the fact that there's absolutely no erosion issues or runoff issu isues on this property whatsoever but um I got I proposed all these plantings um I I I'm assuming that I'm probably going to actually have more plantings than this when it's when it's all done as you guys saw I I plant stuff I I maintain it um I like it so you know I I have that as well um there are littlear once you and Matt are get back together to really come with a with a specific kind of like robust planting um that steep grade over to the top left of this as we look um I'd like to see that naturalized so that it's not like a hedge but that there's some other growing and then maybe your Canadian geese won't come up on the hill as well yeah is that well they they come up here they don't they don't climb that slope but if with permission I'll take care of the the geese if that's but nice try can uh so are these planting talking about more I think that to be like ultimately when we dial this down we'll want to know like where they are how they're kind of like you would have a separate planting plan so that they're not all in a row that they're variegated and they kind of move as well so and that's something that I think you and Matt can submit hopefully for the 20th really what I'm asking for here Kyle is if the patio wasn't there and installing the patio was part of this project how would you make an argument that installing that patio meets the requirements for a waiver that it is in the public interest necessary to prevent a safety hazard or water dependent and I I think envisioning this I would give you leave to also consider the drainage system that you installed right because that right this is sort of going back in time you installed a drainage system to manage all the water coming down the hill that was otherwise discharging to the resource area but it it's not a cleancut case to me that it's uh in totality even in the public interest or but yeah I mean I would public interest I'd say you know I I I don't think anything that I'm doing on the property is in the Public's interest but um you know as far as I would I would beg to differ with that um you're decreasing the runoff into the lake which means that any fertilizers and stuff that you use are less likely to be in the lake you're protecting the the beach side because you're pulling the house further back I mean don't don't discount the things you are doing just because yeah well I I say that the reality of this this is you know my piece of property and it's not a public piece of property so I guess I I looked at it in that way but as far as the I I appreciate Ed that you the reason we're giving for a day any the reason though that we're giving you a hard time about this is because we do see Lake mwan as the public interest right so to exent that you're improving the water quality I think that's what Ed's trying to say and I'm happy to listen to the the the weed topic that was up and I literally go down there and pull those weeds out by my hands so yeah I I I care about the entire Lake and hope i' I'd like to as I have more time get more involved in in things like um that was previously discussed with the draw down and all that um the L I'm just intensely uncomfortable with that stone patio and it's not obvious to me that if it wasn't already there would we have permitted it and I think the cleanest way to answer that question is to Envision the site if you were to propose what you're proposing at the property the day you bought it in 2016 right still subject to our waiver if you came in and Saidi want to put in this patio but I'm going to move the house and the deck all the way out of the 50 I'm going to do these plantings I'm going to install a drainage system to capture the water coming down the driveway yeah what what are your thoughts did you say yes to us I feel like it's a pretty good argument yeah pry good I still struggle with it to be honest because the patio is still closer but I think you need to make that argument in writing and make it very clear what's uh what do we what do you think the square footage of that patio is I can tell you right now it's uh and I we've been talking about plantings and everything like that and you I think what I'm where I'm going is those plantings are going there because things are being removed right where he's taking out what it was it 550 square feet of impious it's uh just under 400 square feet K I agree with you over on the far right where it just goes right down to the bank I think you could I don't think that there was any vegetation there prior um you had trees that kind of like kind of clouded it out that I think that there's a lot more opportunity up there for something more robust where my cursor is over here that slope excuse me the right side of the property where my cursor is now yep exactly yeah yeah and I think we also need to recognize that it's not just the stone patio you know that there was a walkway that's installed so when I look at the existing you gave us information Kyle about existing patios to be removed in my mind I'm not to be honest giving you any credit for that because I don't think it ever should have been installed in the first place without a permit I don't blame you for that two all right so I mean when we were on site Kyle we had the conversation of pavers like at zero new town perious impervious the maintenance I'm somewhat under the way to be swaye that I'm nervous to pull something up to then put a different product down because we've seen so many Replacements of walls and that in the last couple years that have just gone pear-shaped and I get nervous ripping things up sometimes to put them down um in sensitive areas like like that but you could break up the patio and put in some different areas where you can have some absorption so so I have um you can see this area here is um you know there's no Stones there that's a that's a planting bed there's there's a handful of plantings there and actually it's not plotted but there's the same thing over here that goes from the stairs and over and there's a handful of plants in in there as well um it slows it slows down water um I mean Kyle would would you say that that captures the runoff from the patio um and on honestly not an entire entirety no because the patio is runs up to the wall here and then it it I it falls off into the grass area here where it's grass right up to the wall it's not like there's no splashing there's no erosion um the patio's not super super pitched either so it's not like the water really runs in an aggressive manner um I could I could hand put in like a stone recharge here to slow it down but I want to I I'll tread lightly with that because I agree with Sarah where things are naturalized and very very stable at this point um you know I guess we kind of discuss what's worth it what's worth worth disturbing and what's worth leaving um but I would with that patio to Too Much extent of of Destruction and so forth as much as take advantage of it to recharge the plantings in places that are needed like Sarah is suggesting and you youve pointed to and and whatnot uh I'm not a fan of breaking it up just because it's there and maybe you know that's if we can mitigate the the impact of it i' like I personally like that better so Kyle I I think and I don't know how much from a Horticultural standpoint you and Matt I think that that this is where you would be able to hopefully set some of the Commissioners Minds at ease that you've gone above board in order to really help facilitate getting planting and really I think you might need someone to help you think outside the box to be like okay I'm visualize I'm not really getting a lawn but I'm getting areas that can be enjoyed as a recharge in lie of that patio um I may be wrong but that's kind of what I'm hearing from some of the Commissioners right now so are you saying um You' like to see more planting areas than what I've drawn on here or what are your thoughts on I'm just thinking so for the next meeting I can kind of have right on that legit plan what you'd like so um I have pretty extensive Dr you know planting areas here um and and this you know now is as we mentioned it this is plantings and this is plantings where my cursor is um do you want to see more plantings and if so where I I know you mentioned over here so I could throw another couple birch trees over here there actually is a birch tree right here so this is all wooded through all every single tree over here isn't located but you guys saw from the property where this bound is it's it's in the woods there's a lot of trees from this point over so like over here shouldn't touch and I don't know why I do that so that's like up here there's there's all large trees all in this area and it could be we just met with some other um that had other applicant that had to take down some trees they put in you know more of a butterfly area something for pollinator Gardens things like that think of and that's where I think having someone else come in and look at more holistically like what's missing like what really does a birch tree add versus what what else can you add that will help the Native you know insects and birds and things like that I think that's where no m in this area you know just down here y but while you're moving your mouse around that uh says proposed stairs oh way back to the other that was way back to the other planet that has to come out yeah thank oh no sorry actually that Arrow all the here it's the arrow all the way over that Arrow actually points all the way over to there move St down to the lake I was like whoa yeah no so well I'll I'll remove the the toe of these stairs out of the 50 anyways y but Kyle I think what you're hearing is you really got to defend the idea that and explain why the stone patio if it were to be constructed as part of this project why it still meets the requirements for the waiver and it that may require you to expand a little bit you're thinking about the restoration and mitigation that needs to be provided so maybe just just so I do have more of a rather than a another long discussion I I'll nail down more what you guys want for the next plan what what about the toe of this wall if I propose plantings entirely in this area so that way there's no you know get rid of because there is 10t of grass here um over here that's you know space that i' I'd really like to keep in use you know we have a we have fire you know whatever stuff you do by a lake over here with the kids and and I have these these plantings which we'll we'll provide in detail um and I want to stress again there's there's no no channeling no runoff no issues on these slopes it's all natural vegetation it's thick on these on these slopes so this would just be an addition to the stable slope would be these berry bushes and hopefully I can find something that's flowering that I can put in there as well and then I could uh do plantings entirely on the low side of this wall in front of here and remove the grass um would would that be a little bit more sufficient um in in the board's opinion opinion or what are your thoughts on that I certainly like it I I would recommend you consult with Matt on that though and one additional recommendation Kyle is quantify for us how much square footage of planting are you proposing to do in the 50 Foot in the 50 Foot okay yeah I what I would like to do is be able to compare essentially what we're saying is okay in exchange for I don't know let's call that a 200t patio we're going to have 200 squet of natural ized plantings we're going to have this amount of square footage of building pulled out of the 50 ft and we had a drainage system put in uphill like you can see how like build out the entirety of the argument quantitatively where you can okay okay and Kyle I would have Matt watch this discussion before you kind of have him go a separate way so I think it's it's important that he can hear all this feedback it took me three meetings to do the waiver so we gotta give we gotta I got do my best on that all right well we're meeting on August 20th let us know if you don't think you're gonna have it done by then okay yeah yeah I feel like we've discussed enough to where if I can't have it done by then I'll just let you know and I'll come to the next and just so you know September 10th is the next meeting okay okay all right so thank you for meeting with us we still have a lot of stuff we have to do tonight so um thank you questions we're going to go ahead and continue you to August 20th yeah thanks great all right thank you yeah all right Commissioners we're going to go back to administrative discussions um let's see think for watch it um I'm gonna go ahead and jump to some of mine um I don't know whether you guys have known or not um we got a note from Cory Godfrey I'd like just to share this with you from he personally um I would like to inform you all meaning the town that after 10 wonderful years with the little thin electric light and water departments I've been presented with an opportunity to take my career to the next level and to make a broader impact as of August 26th I will be a senior drinking water specialist at Cadmus cadm us where I will be supporting us epa's office of water on a large contract to assist small and disadvantaged water utilities throughout the United States with their management and compliance challenges uh little from water blah blah blah has been a specific place to learn a fantastic place to learn and grow as a professional and I've made many friends along the way I have complete confidence in the team we've built at the water department department and I expect a seamless transition then personal regards so um I think that I as a commissioner and as chair have enjoyed working with Corey with the water depart I feel like he has had some really difficult projects and I think he's always responded to us I would like that with your support for us just to um ask Amy or Tim just to jot a just quick email of thanks from all of us for his time and and just send along some well wishes with your thoughts absolutely that would be great okay all right thank you for that um I'm going to do a brief neog Hill Orchard update um I could go on for a long time but I won't um so some of the things I just want to let you know that um I personally has been on it for over three years we brought to the town meeting what we felt was a a great proposal based on the market and of the farmers that we met with over the many years um I feel like really the the town lacks financial means and experience for farming um I think what I've been most disappointed is that prior to the town meeting the board of Selectmen had promised to um that after the town meeting that we were going to have two open um just open meetings and that we wanted to get to understand what the town's people wanted we've had some incredible support from um local people you know Vin stoo um Rob BRS those people have just put in tireless amounts of work along with some of the neighbors as well um what happened was after the town meeting um basically we had done our job we gave we met the goals we gave them our proposals and then right after the town meeting Brad Mitchell who was our chair resigned um Karen Morrison who was the board of select one of them resigned and then um iname board selectman member Mark ronacher and he inserted himself as active chair meanwhile bypassing Amy tler Lewis who was the second chair at the time um who I believe strongly should have been elevated with her experience over the last three years um you can go on the town website the last minutes that were approved um on April 10th which was from a March 5th meeting if you want to learn more about the orchard I suggest you go to lctv we did have a joint meeting on May 30th with the board of Selectmen um it I felt was off the track um a lot because the select the board of Selectmen were not members of that committee and so while they had some ideas they weren't really the focus of the committee or of the Town um the board also then met without the working groups knowledge um and then decided um on July 22 we received an email from those of us still on the committee that they wanted to do a request for proposal for a lease which um they asked us to help make edits which we had not even discussed in theory to kind of look at the ins and outs which would not include the house perhaps not the barn um and so that was on July 22nd and then on July 25th Amy tarler Lewis and Jen Clancy officially resigned um I feel like I've been mostly unheard um as many of the other ones but um I feel feel like we've we''ve done our job um will picker's on as our agriculture representative he's still on I'm technically still on um I wish I could tell you what direction we were going in but we have been kind of isolated from the board of Selectmen and don't really know what's going on so I feel like I'm in the dark I basically would just tell you to stay tuned um there was it was in the newsletter last week uh no two weeks ago so there was an orchard update which Amy tarlo Lewis was gracious enough to write they I think posted her the resignation letter but didn't just it's kind of like stuffed away in there um yeah my Kudos go to all the people that have really just spent a lot of time were mowing um we were supposed to have meetings with mapc which we were uh talked about for four months the Border Selectmen dragged their feet dragged their feet they thought they were going to help facilitate a negotiation um just to have a meetings and then lo and behold they finally talked to them and they said oh no we can't do that for you so there's no one to help facilitate the local people with the board of Selectmen um the working committee was brought in to help really establish trust uh with the border of Selectmen because everybody knows the first negotiation didn't go swimmingly um so I don't know where we are at this point and hopefully if they put out a request for proposal for release that we have some good interests because the orchard is phow for kind of year four so I know that the bard of selectman had a discussion with mdar um regarding the aprs on that land and think that they can break it up it's not ideal we don't want the property breaking up wasn't the Morrison's intention and so going forward um I will try and see what we need to do to get our conservation land in order and protected down below so at least we can have some input and go from there but that's my update I think honestly you'll probably learn more from the selectman than you will from me at this point so all right um next is the update 151-153 Taylor um quarterly groundwater monitoring reports which is Mast EP 20496 and 0917 Amy anything on that sorry uh yeah that's just like you said they're quarterly reports over by Amazon um and I didn't know if anybody felt any need for them to come in um Andor how long you want to keep getting the monitoring reports I if I personally would like to have them show up at least once in the next month or two but that's my opinion oh wait a minute I see we have a hand can we back up sorry I Wasing rob you can let's see Amy can there you're you're unmuted Rob sorry so you can yes please um introduce yourself Rob Rob BRS 25 Juniper Road uh first if I'm understanding correctly Sarah you have not resigning or you have not resigned yet so one I want to thank you for what I believe I certainly understood everything that you said um thank you for everything you've done I hope that you will continue I think I'm seeing a calendar the working group there are very very few members may be meeting next week my recollection the other part that I'd say is as attending the town meeting I felt that the public was not informed I think your reference to the two meetings that were promised and didn't happen really the town residents weren't prepared I'll just ask because so many of you are influential voices if you know Chase I recall that that you spoke anded I recall you spoke as well you know voices regardless of whether I agree with you or disagree with you are very very important I will help members of this group because you are recognized as being uh very knowledgeable and I think you have great influence I would encourage your participation in the future of this I think it's really a uh a challenge and again I thank Sarah for doing what she's doing so thank you for letting me speak thank you for all your your time Rob I know you've been valuable input to this and Rob um if you want to just briefly share your your input that you've had with potential signatures calling for special meeting all your time you spent in the town hall learning about that daunting process yeah so I within days was giving serious consideration Diane Curry was extremely helpful got me the process understanding conveyed my my interest work within stolo and a couple other people with regard to we might force a town vot but then quite frankly um and this is where I don't want to speak badly I think Matthew n house had the responsibility and the challenge to try to get mapc meetings I allowed myself to get stuck if you will in the belief that those meetings were going to happen and I also thought that there would be I'll say a better expression of great and better cooperation between the select board and and the working group I come away at this moment quite disappointed and yet I you know I don't I failed to be knowledgeable prior to the the town meeting vot on May 7th I've now gone back and listen to every watch every lctv since 2022 so I feel like I'm so much better informed and that's why I'm asking for your voices and your participation going forward because I think if they are able to do meetings as I think critical public and a public hearing as well education session I think those go a long way and and that's where again you it's you and will quite frankly it was Brad still involved Amy Jen I wish they were still involved critical voices they're clearly the most knowledge people much okay thank you rob um Amy Kyle is in the attendee I I couldn't move him over okay thank you for your time Rob yep thank you rob all right let's go request for certificate of compliance 17 mwaniki Trail Mast 20498 tabled awaiting stabilization oh sorry I hadn't read that okay uh request for certificate of compliance that's tabled as well team Porter helps when I read um let's see Webster parcel naming Webster Woods Webster Wetlands Webster what do we want to call it the Webster land the Webster land that what you said Andrew I think that it's yeah I think it's fitting or Webster conservation land oh Webster conservation land yes [Music] thats Kyle Michael that's pretty easy did the um weers themselves have am you go it's you right sorry Michael did uh uh the Websters have any input on what they would like the name to be or would it be good to uh ask them about that chase I haven't asked them about it we s like could good idea I think yeah I assume they wouldn't object to being calling Webster something right I mean it's such a historic family so so let's make a motion to put forth a name to the family and then if they say yes we don't have to do another vote is that cool Amy all right and would you like to make a motion sure I'll make a motion that the commission uh name the uh Webster property uh the Webster conservation land so I think we have a second all right roll call vote uh Chase Chase K Ed Ed Sarah Sarah die Michael Michael living Kyle Kyle M am i s i it's unanimous excellent I can go ahead and do that um he's getting some land stewards together anyway so I'll talk to l oh cool okay Amy you had something Japanese not weed uh yeah I just wanted to check with you and I hope you can hear me the um we're thinking about getting some uh herbicide application for the Japanese nawe that is on lakes Shore um around the side um before it gets totally out of hand and uh we've talked to two people one person who probably said they might actually just do it with injection where you actually inject into each one um or potentially more of a a hand swipe type thing uh but I was just wondering what if anything you would want to see for permitting on that I was thinking either there will not be work in the wetlands but it'll be right next to it um either an RDA or or nothing so I I just want to check your thoughts I think we would want to see an r at a minimum right yeah I want him just go out there and do things without us knowing we need to have it documented somehow yeah I think RDA and then is there a a time frame that it really should be done like say if someone's going to go out and do an injection is there optimal time to do such yeah it's coming up Tim's putting together uh the permit application um so he's getting all the the basic stuff done and so we'll probably have it um on for either the 20th or the 10th and what are they using and do they need an applicator license oh yeah this this would be a certified applicator okay do we know the source of the chemical I don't it's it's all in there proposal okay that'll be part of the application y I think definitely RDA okay that would be great okay I'm looking on this have I missed anything uh 242 King uh Tim's been going out there every now and then and they're basically in line they had put some uh porta-potties outside of the erosion controls he said I'm to put them back in and they're doing a little bit of uh deing every now and then but it's not getting out of the Basin because there's not that much volume when will they be done do you think I do not know yeah that's got to be a way that it's not even superstructure going up yet so it's gonna be a bit okay yeah it I think we had suggested if if we had Light and Water here for uh the line extension we may be asking for an update on 242 I think that can wait until they're ready to come in on the next thing but Amy just just let them know when they come in for the next thing we're going to agenda them for an update on 242 yeah I had told Corey that um but then he said anyway you know okay all right so and then Amy at some point next week if you could send out a reminder for the site walk on 819 um especially for Carl just remember His email is different now I know it's occasionally we use his old one but let's make sure we've gone over to his I think it's a AOL or whatever um melber backwards Y is the Y anybody have anything else if not may we have a motion to adjourn it's 9:21 motion to journ all right final roll call Chase Chase G gu Ed Ed FZ I Sarah Sarah Seward I Michael Michael Livingston I Kyle Max and myself I we're adjourned thank you stay dry everybody