Good morning everyone. Today is February 7th, 2026. This is the fourth meeting with our department heads. Uh it's a long day today called Super Saturday. I don't know why how it got that name, but it's not so super when you have to sit
there. Uh today we're going to have the school department, the police department, the fire department, DPW. We'll have a discussion on the second floor renovation of 37 shadic and then we'll be talking about the operating budgets and capital with a journ adjournment uh
slated around 3:30 today. So without any time to waste, let's get straight to the um school department. Dustin, morning. >> Good morning everyone. >> Morning. Thanks for having us in. Um so the uh school department and the budget
subcommittee which Janine Wood sits on with me. Um Steve Mark and Superintendent Dr. Clenchi have been working hard on our uh fiscal year 27 budget. We've got a brief presentation for you this morning that just kind of highle view. Um
all of the detail within this is on open finance and intervenous reports and we can we're happy to go through that as well. Um but we just wanted to give you an idea of the challenges that the school department's going to be facing um in the next few years we're able to get
through this year. So if we take a look we've got our fiscal year 26 budget what everybody's familiar with 26 almost $4 million. Um, initially we had put a lot of time and effort into uh trying to present the
town a budget that we felt was well within the town's capacity. We had attended some meetings earlier in the year where we saw a placeholder of around 3% um for the school department. We tookies
and certainly didn't want to uh reduce the offerings um to our students and we were arrived at a $725,000 increase which is around 2.75. Uh when we did so I I shared the news with some of you folks and everybody
seemed pretty pleased. Um and that put us around the 271. Can you go to the next slide please? Uh as everyone's aware, we were then um everyone became aware of uh a projected deficit for fiscal year 27. Everyone has
sort of asked to do a all all hands on deck. The town is re-evaluating multiple approaches to solve this problem. and we um worked to reduce our budget I should say more of our it's more of our operational spend because the budget
our planned use of um expenditures is about the same as to what we were initially projecting better way to put it. Um we have an appropriated request of $600,000 less which I can detail you how we arrive at that on the next slide.
Actually, I'm going to jump back to our initial request so you have an idea of what's going on here. Um, part of our initial request was um a contractual salary increase of $874,000.
Um, school department is a large department and everyone's aware there's steps and lanes within uh the contract. So even on a 0% cola year, if there was ever such a thing, we would have increasing salaries, about 50% of our
staff is progressing um with their steps in longevity service to the town and then they're working hard to transfer lanes as they pick up additional credit and further their education. So 874 was
the projected increase. Um, this year we earmarked $550,000 offset on that salary through a combination of school choice funds. That's not a spendown of school choice, but that's some money that we would receive from
school choice in the fiscal year 27 and spend grant funds uh some allocation towards prek tuition and we arrived at uh a net salary increase of 324,000. In addition to that, we had a couple
asks as we always like to try to get uh better and more efficient. Um you all f you folks are all well aware that we switched up our busing uh for later school start times a couple years ago. This was going to be the last increase
of that uh slide from running three runs to two runs, which the community has felt um has been a very positive change to the tune at 134,000. Um we have a very robust curriculum um
evaluation process where we continuously um evaluate the curriculum within all of our departments that just to evaluate the curriculum takes money and then to implement new curriculum of course takes additional funds. So we were trying to earmark about $150,000 for fiscal year
27 to help us move that along. We've seen a rise in substitutes costs. We've seen a little bit of a shift from short-term subs to long-term subs. Um, it's also more difficult to obtain substitutes and to try to get them to
come back um and make it feel like they're not just there um as a as a benefit to the town or or you know, partially volunteering. That's the $75,000 increase makes them feel like it was a day's worth uh well worth of pay.
And then we had um sort of this traditional $42,000 um increase in supplies through across the four school, you know, four schools of about $10,000 a school. Of note, um the schools had a request for an
increase in the ability to make color copies. And that's how we arrived at the 725, which we we we felt was pretty lean, coming in at 2.75. On the next slide, I'm going to show you where we're going to spend out some of our own money
um to reduce our ask of $600,000. So, um the plan for the last three years has been to chunk the increase to the town uh for appropriated funds of that of that busing increase. We um in the first year we offered you a
fourth of it and we we swallowed three quarters of it and so on and I believe that this was the last year and then the total increase was going to be in the appropriated budget. Uh we're going to swallow it this year as well. Uh so we're going to spend down some of our
bus revolving fund money. We do have user fees for buses. Um, so if you're um outside at two miles or if you're six six plus grade six plus
>> grade seven and above >> grade seven and above I always get confused because it's not exactly the middle school. >> Um, grades seven and above or if you're outside of two miles I'm sorry, inside of two miles. >> Um, there was a yearly fee for busing. The school committee just recently
raised those rates. uh to uh to our town to our school community. Um so we're going to spend some of that money down. It's appropriate for us to have a bus revolving fund because transportation is a fluid
um expense in the fact that um things things break down, we might develop a need or circumstance might arise where that um could change on us. In addition, we owe bus money at different times over
the course of the year. Um, so it's nice for us to have a little bit of bus money. Keeps us flexible and nimble. Um, our $150,000 curriculum spend, which we're we're going to allocate money towards curriculum we need to. Um, we're going to spend down some of our Tiger's
Den facility charge. U, Tiger's Den has a revolving balance. It's pretty healthy. Um, it's still a a super lowcost, affordable option for families. It's a very nice It's a sort of a win-win for everybody. Uh, having
Tiger's Den in the school is certainly convenient, but it's also somewhat inconvenient um for us, right? There's wear and tear on the building and um we have to try to staff it and it's not necessarily the same people or I should say by and large it's not the same
people. I think long long ago there was an idea that Tiger's Den could have its own self- sustaining operation with its own facility. We've abandoned that idea for the bit for a bit now. And um we'll limit this along by spending down that that dream of Tiger's Den being
something greater than it than it is today. And we'll uh we'll use about $150,000 there. We're going to um our prek tuition receipts. Again, we typically like to retain some of those
dollars so that the program is self- sustaining opportunity for improvements or growth. We're going to spend that down 50,000. And then we've identified, which we hope to come through, a possible um $100,000 savings as it
relates to salaries because we do anticipate some retirements. We're going to look to replace those folks with the very best possible candidate. But if folks are >> Yeah. It's not just the superintendent salary. I'll make that. I'll make that clear. >> Thank you for that clarif.
>> Yeah. >> No one would take >> That's the new superintendent. Are you sure you don't want to stake? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I don't think so. I don't think anyone would take that job for $100,000 less. >> Um there's a number of retirements that we're anticipating. We'll hire the very
best candidate. Um, but a often times folks are retiring out at the the top of the grid or the bottom of the grid, you know, the high dollars and um lots of kids coming out of school and excited to be teachers and we'll just we'll see where that takes us. But we we
do think that there's about a possible $100,000 savings there. And we've worked year over year tirelessly um as it relates to our special education spend with a focus on out of district tuition. Um, we had a presentation two nights ago
at school committee. It was very well done. It's like 20 minutes if you want to take a look by uh Dr. Snow in the uh district's efforts to educate our students in town if we're able to do so. So, it's not just ah we don't think we can handle this. Let's
let's send you out district. There's a special place for that. It's can we create this program in town? uh can we educate you in the town that you live in among your peers, your after school activities, all that good stuff. More convenient for your parents, it's where you live. Um so the district has made
phenomal progress in reducing um our out of district spend. And in looking at that because we have a student, the one particular student where we believe a change is most certainly going to take place and they're going to come in district. uh those can be high high
dollar spends. Um we're able to recognize what we believe is about $165,000 uh reduction of that line item. So on the next slide, we present you with our very modified and humble uh request of
a48% increase. It's a net increase of 125,000. I I just I need to reiterate that salaries are going up to be, you know, projected 874. Um, you know, if you want to split
hairs, you can call it 774 because we're recognizing that $100,000 increase, but we um we are well staffed, but it's because we need to be um you know, all we have four building principles, we have four assistant principles, we have strong district leadership. We've made
an effort to hire in additional BCBAs uh for behavior issues. We have psychologists and psychiatrists in in district and I think you all are aware but the needs of our student population are ever changing and becoming more and more complex. We hope to deliver um a
very robust um curriculum offering. We've got a dedicated staff that works tirelessly um to further the education in Littleton. or one of districts um depending upon which metrics you want to look at high performing districts. So
if you want to look at, you know, Northwest or the 495s are all that good, but we al strong competition. Um, a lot of our two towns away are also strong as well. And there is a a trend in
Massachusetts that um if you aren't getting better as your school enrollment is going to go down. So you need to continue to offer diverse housing options. uh to um continue to have a school district
that continuously improves so that people want to choose Littleton because it's very easy to manage a school district if the enrollments uh level or perhaps a slight increase. It becomes very difficult to manage uh a budget if
your enrollment's going down. Um not that we can't do it, it just becomes a lot more uncomfortable. So, uh, ouration last night, it's, uh, ebbing and flowing a little bit, but nothing major. So, we,
um, if you date back, uh, a few years ago, we were higher than we are today. We saw a little COVID pull out. Those students have returned and we're back to where we believe is a very sustainable enrollment number for us. So, um, that's
the highle presentation. Uh the next slide says questions. I'm happy to go through report. Um I've got some support here from Superintendent Clenchy and visitor Steve Mark if you want to get into the weeds,
but um I'll say the the spend from revolving funds everyone's aware here. It's it's a spend on a going to get replaced to the same tune of the spend. Otherwise, we would um you know
um so this works for 27 to some degree. Some of those same strategies could but it's it's not a long-term plan for 29 or 30. So, um you know, we've we've
we're negotiating with now. We're we're having conversations about how the contract is worded and what flex is in the be a little bit more nimble with the budget and the way that we spend. Um can't tell you how those conversations
are going to help the conversation. Um but >> hear from anybody that has questions or comments >> session. First of all, I know we all like to thank the school committee and superintendent for stepping up in in a
hard year. I know it was a a difficult uh conversation we had with you and like to thank everyone involved for helping us because without that reduction in your budget, uh we couldn't
have this. We're still trying. It's been this year has been like a a roller coaster. We get good news and we get bad news and we get good news and bad news. Um we're we're trying our best to to stay above water.
As far as for the future years, um we will work with you and the school committee and the superintendent, new superintendent, uh whenever um to put a a plan together for your revolving funds and make it sustainable because that's the only way
it'll work. You can't, you know, throw all this money into the operating budget and then it disappears because that just kills us in the long run. So, um, again, thank you for all that you've done with this budget. >> Welcome. >> And we're all in this together. So, and
you said that many times. So, >> I I have one, excuse me, not related to the operating budget, but uh we've been talking about roofs and boilers for years. Um, and I know the school, the
high school is coming up on the magic 25 years or whatever it is. Um, and do we have a plan to um or what is the plan to go after MSBA
funds? I know they there is an accelerated program for some things and not for others. And if we just get a an update on what your thoughts are on that. >> So the the plan is to continuously apply
for MSBA. I've heard that we wouldn't become eligible for uh that program once we close out the Shaker Lane project. We currently have an MS project. >> All right. So, >> I've also I've heard it both ways.
>> So, so under MSBA, there's two programs. There's a core program which you're under for the Shaker Lane program, right? >> And then there's then there's an accelerated repair program for roofs and boilers and windows and things like that. It used to be an application every
year. MSBA's chat application and award is now on a two-year cycle. So, we applied last year. We we really applied under the under the core program last year. Well, probably because I misinterpreted the language or something, but they changed it.
Whatever. Denied for that. So, we missed the opportunity in FY25 for the core program. So, the next opportunity is FY27. So, we plan on applying an FY27 under I mean under the accelerated program. We plan we applying
an F7 program for the high school roof and boilers, >> right? >> Um a little bit the roof we still need to do. That's still a need. >> Um it's not like it's leak place. We address the leaks as as they happen as
flat roofs. You get them anyway. Um so, we're addressing it and managing it. the boilers. We actually just had to replace a section in the boiler because it was cracked. Um year, excuse me, a year ago when we had to replace a different
section in the same boiler, another cast iron section, we were told that we it was very difficult to find parts. Um we happened to find one in a warehouse in Lester, I believe. We had to jump on it within like 15 minutes and say yes, we wanted it or it was going to go to somebody else. So, we did it. um since
the way I understand it is some schools that had those boilers have up upgraded their boilers and so those I guess used parts are now available in somebody's warehouse someplace and they're selling them. Um so it's not an
immediate crisis that we have to deal with. We believe there are some cast iron sections available for our boilers if we need to. However, those boilers, as you pointed out, are still 25 years old. Um, they're not as efficient as
they used to be, etc., etc., etc. The plan is to still try to replace those um if and when we qualify for MSBA funding. >> Good. So, >> so it's at least another year before, >> well, we we will apply.
>> Doesn't doesn't hurt us. I mean, doesn't doesn't cost us apply, right? So almost we might apply in 20 we will apply in 27. >> I wanted to clarify we're not going to plan to apply. We will apply in 27 >> and if we don't get it we will apply in
29. The plan is to continuously apply until we get it and we hope that we get in the program before the roof for boilers down. >> The window for application >> that's everybody's plan. >> The window for application is I forgot exactly January sometime. We don't
typically hear yay or nay until everything. Um, so there's some time delay in there between when it's awarded and then um I'm not exactly sure how the funding timing works with MSBA, but it could be
probably extend into multiple years. I I would assume. >> So you're going to be applying in January of 27? >> Yes. and we here in October of 207 which is FY28.
So realistically it doesn't happen until >> FY28 or FY29 >> 29. Correct. >> Okay. >> And then probably while the hopefully while the high school roof is done, we're applying
for the middle, >> right? Okay. >> And we should be closing out the Shikcoming project in 28. So very exciting. >> Thank you. >> Right. >> MSBA has changed some of their rules on
timing on stuff and they have a huge backlog of projects that they're trying to fund and I'm curious about the some of the unsustainable funds that you're using, school choice being one of them. My recollection is that's a pretty lumpy
income. like you don't know what where it goes from year to year. It's not a consistent source of income. Is that accurate? >> No, I would say that um we you know choice student in they typically stay with us. So we we have some known school
choice enrollment year-over-year. um we graduate school choice students you know from the high school and also there's an opportunity for um I mean there's an opportunity well I guess once they're in every year the school committee essentially looks at the open
seats in the classroom right so um if we already have like a bubble class we're not looking to add additional students um school choice is only going to remain a successful program if we become a if we maintain our desire terrible ratings
and rankings, right? Cuz that's why people want to come here. Um, in theory, uh, that the population itself in town swell to the point where our buildings don't have room for school choice students. So, there is a risk
associated with that, but we don't we don't really believe that that's going to be the case. So, currently we have about what 120 school choice students approximately. >> Over 100%. >> Yeah. 110. Um and every year we evaluate
that and we look to see where we can add school choice seats if it makes sense. Families have an opportunity to choose uh alternative options like Michelle Pek or Parker and we we evaluate um
uh offering school choice seats later of you know it's a lot of times people want to get in early first grade or so second grade popular options. It's a strategy that's worked well for um in terms of sustainability of the use of those. We
all came to an agreement that we were going to try to make 10 10% of our budget in the school choice fund for things like extraordinary. So we would come running back to you
midyear and say oh my goodness. Um and that's about where we're going to be. So my point is if we were to continuously, you know, spend down the school choice dollars year over year over year, we'd at some point be in a position where we've got well less than 10%. It's a
healthy balance um as it sits right now exactly where it should be. >> Yeah. I guess I'm asking like with all of those funds that you're drawing down that in a potentially unsustainable way. I'm curious like what the numbers are. >> So we also we collect about I'll just you know we collect about $400,000 a
year in school choice funds. And if we're spending 550, it's not hurting us that bad. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And what are the other sources that you that are not like that? You you you called out a couple, I think, besides school choice. >> Yeah. So, the busing. >> Yeah.
>> Um, typically we, you know, we'll receive busing receipts and we'll spend I mean the bus cost far exceeds what the user fees are, right? That's why the it's in the appropriated funds. Um, so we're carrying some money in busing to
be a little bit nimble with that. That is a big spend that's going to reduce us drastically. Tiger's Den, we're spending about a third or a quarter of that money. Um, prek, we're spending it down almost in its entirety.
>> Um, retirement savings. Yeah, the retirement savings is just a difference in uh >> yeah, interesting. >> I think it's busing that we're nearly wiping out. I mean, I've got the details, but it's essentially busing that we're nearly wiping out and it's a
big spend out of Tiger's debt. >> Okay. And then we're going to spend more out of school of choice this receive. Got it. >> So, that account's going to move south. >> Okay. >> What do you have planned out of choice?
550 550 >> into the operating budget >> two 250 salaries >> and then we're using schools to pay for some capital 455 in capital right so
just so you know that the so to the stabilization what we agreed to a couple years ago with taking those dollars that we would have paid for capital and putting into the stabilization account. >> Yep.
>> It's 455,000. And we're also putting the 34,000 um that you turned over at the end of the budget year into school stabilization, >> right? >> Those two things are being done. >> And we have Steve's working hard. We
have our $450,000 worth of capital projects >> from last year >> planned and earmarked and finalizing, you know, ready to go. And that's one of the things that and the track being track being one of them. >> I was going to ask because it's not on this list or and it's not on the CPC
list. So I wasn't sure where it was coming up or if it was still coming up this year. >> We plan to >> through school choice or through CPC. >> Well, we'll certainly investigate the C. So this the way you know I don't know all the intricacies of how that works
but um if it makes fiscal sense to have CDC funds involved and we're all in agreement then that's the path that we should take but um >> you just need to get that application in sooner rather than later. >> Yeah I I had had com conversations with
Saul from park and wreck I mean yeah park and wreck. Um, we we initially thought we'd try to get the track resurfaced using CPC funds last summer. That just didn't happen for a bunch of reasons. Um, I'm
working on bid documents now to go out to bid, get a price, and then we'll go to Saul and say, how can we do the use the CPC funds so the town gets the matching CPC funds and we turn over money from school choice to the CPC
funds so they get that match. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but we started those conversations. Um, we haven't started them up yet. Again, I'm waiting till I get the bid out and done and get at least a hard number what it's going to cost and then we'll have those conversations.
>> I I think probably the best way to handle this is I mean, if CPC is willing to pay for the entire project or at least partial of the project and use their funds and save your school choice dollars for them, right?
depending on how much is in the recreation bud bucket for CFC. That's our >> but but talk to Carolyn Mueller to figure out when you have to have the application. >> Yes. Yep. We put the application in last year and then it kind of fizzled because
we didn't get out to bid for a bunch of different reasons. And >> Steve, excuse me. What was the um the cost for the track to res? I'm estimating it is around 165,000. >> That's for resurface. >> Yeah.
>> And then there's a small area has to do with the pole vault that they use mats that they want or um a permanent runway installed on the hot top that's there. So, um that was the kind of the initial
quote that we received from Cape Island Track um of what it would cost. because it's over 100 grand. We got to put a bid together. >> Let's do it. Thank you. >> Um I had a question. So the transportation costs, is that inclusive
of the special education transportation or is that in the special education budget separately? >> Um no, the transportation >> is with the busing >> is right. It's in there. >> So that's your fluctuation. You because your contract with busing is pretty consistent. It'd still be that
population in one year. you could all of a sudden see a huge spike if you had >> correct. Yeah, we we we're under contract with debus for the local the town routes and there's uh you know a cola built into that as well. >> But yes, it's the out of district or
this even the in district special needs. >> That's what your buffer is that you're talking about. >> Correct. >> Yes. Yeah. We we're fortunate to use case collaborative for most of our audit district population, but every year we end up in situations where they can't
transport students. So we're hiring contractors and that's where the unpredictable costs come in much higher. >> The only other question is the contract um union contract. When is that
the current contract? >> It expires this is it? >> Yeah, June 30th. >> Okay. That's a It's a big I'm not going to say unknown, but it's a big unknown.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, we've had a number of meetings. Um, dialogue's been great. >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, dedicated staff working through some contract language. They
have asks, we have asks. Um, I remain optimistic. I wanted to commend you guys on keeping enrollment stable. I've been to several um meetings with um through the affordable housing trust with areas and
most schools in the in the surrounding areas their enrollment is going down some of them quite precipitously. So I mean I think we were one of the two school districts that was presented that didn't actually have a meter decrease. So that's pretty significant
>> and enrollment across the state is down uh almost 16,000 students from uh FY24 into FY25 and they and they believe that trend is going to continue >> immigration people immigrating out as well. That's >> they get tired of I don't know
>> negative immigration. >> Yeah. wild like Massachusetts is like one or two top you know uh in education across all 50 states for it >> we do but I think housing is the issue
>> working on that >> not a problem you can solve overnight >> one of the things we also have to talk about Justin after this is we get into the policy discussions agreement for the capital
school bond was two years. The second year we should reook at it after we figure out how sustainable that school choice money is. You know, next year's capital on the plan was only like 65,000 outside of the the roots and everything.
>> Right. So there maybe one year that gets a little big after that, but we should take another look at and see if we can extend that. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Our buildings are in really good, in my opinion, they're in really good shape, but we're getting to the point
where it's the larger, bigger systems that we need to start looking at. >> Yeah. >> But to Justin's point and everybody's point about our population being stable and and not losing students, we do want
to not reduce curriculum materials when we can. I think a big part of why we have this great population is I've been watching meeting after meeting of our amazing staff coming forward talking about the latest curriculum group
they're implementing how carefully they're implementing it. We get feedback every few months on how well this curriculum is is working within our schools. um what we're seeing as student
student um achievement throughout our schools and and placement of our you know our students where they're going to school, they're going to Harvard, they're going to in great schools as they leave here. So
we don't want to lose that. We just wanted to make clear as we brought this to you, we can't do this year after year. So, let's work together to not lose that excellence. >> One of the things I've appreciated from
all of you um is the we in all of our discussions, right? You know, it's not town versus schools. It's always how are we going to, you know, make this work for all of us. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate that because it's I won't say
unique, but it's a special thing to have um compared to a lot of other districts. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> we appreciate it as well. >> On that note, I I know the pause would like to thank superintendent. This is your last budget meeting.
>> It is. >> Thank you for everything that you've done over the years for the not only the town but to help finances of the school. um they're in a lot better shape when you're leaving than when you came. >> Thank you. I've enjoyed my time here and
enjoyed, you know, being part of Littleton. Uh Littleton is a special place and and uh it's been my pleasure to be here for 15 years and uh it'll get to the point now where I can uh think about doing other things in life. So,
>> nice try. Nice try. >> And I hope you being a superintendent again. Steve's looking for a fourth on the hill. >> Of course, Steve, you could also be back. >> You could say how much the school budget
has increased over his time. >> I was being nice. >> But look what we look at. Look at the value that was increased. Yes. >> We haven't really got to congratulate you on the the blue ribbon middle school and the high school recognition. So,
>> quite a congratulations. if you want to speak at all to that. That's a >> quite an achievement for for our staff, students, and the community. And uh second one I've had in my career. It's not that common. >> Most superintendents probably won't see any in their career. Just happened to be
two middle schools, which is kind of interesting. Hopefully, I'll read in the news someday that one of our elementary schools. >> But thank you again for your support over the last 15 years. Great. >> Thank you. >> This town's destined to continue to do
great things. >> Anything else with the school department? No. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Have a good rest of your day. >> Oh, yeah.
>> Right. Oh, that's good. Thanks everybody. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. How are you? >> Good. Good luck. >> How much How much we expecting out of this one? Four or five? Okay. Maybe only have a good day everyone.
All of our friends or two That's much better. Hey Gary, take it. >> They wanted like 40 gallons or something or something like that. Thank you. >> How's that? How's everybody doing? >> Good. Glad I could join you this morning
this Saturday morning. >> I know it's such a lie. I'm sorry. I'm not going to lie to that. >> Um, couple accomplishments for the department for this year. Uh, total calls for service with 20,430. Um, 2,883 of those calls were emergency
911 dispatch calls. Um, since we're on emergency dispatch, EMD Pro QA that we initiated, uh, was one of our capital requests, I believe, two years ago. We finally came full fruition this year. Um, it's up and
running. It's, um, if you recall, our old system was very outdated. It was the old flip charts. This is a scripted, I'd like to say AI, but it's not AI. It's more scripted as to the calls and
how you put input your stuff to it and what they're going to answer to it. um speaking to the dispatchers, uh communication officers, they um they couldn't probably this is where we're supposed to be. This is a level and we were down here. So, it's been a
it's been a good addition in the dispatch center. Uh hired two new patrol officers, uh Noah Graham and TJ Far. Noah was a dispatcher for us. Littleton resident his whole life. Littleton high school
student. Started dispatching for us. Uh after he done dispatching, he showed interest in become a police officer. Excellent academy. He is crushing it right now. He's doing a great job out there. Noah. And then we hired uh TJ Far. TJ
um came to us through via Fitchburg State. He is a uh I'd say a Fitsburg boy, but he uh he grew up in the Westminster Princeton area and uh he did the 5 plus one program. So we actually saved a lot of money hiring TJ. We did not have to send him to the academy. He
went to Pittsburgh State. 5 plus one program is you do four years, get your bachelors. All those four years you're working towards your police academy. End of the fourth year that summer you go to the police academy run by Fitsburg State. And then you receive your master's
degree that following year, your classes. So that's why they call it a 5 plus one. You get your master's degree plus you get your um police scouting behind you. >> Chief Ryan Richard did the same thing. >> Ryan Rich is one of the same hires out of that. Exactly. He was one of the original. Actually, he was the first
group out of that. He's the original. >> Yeah. Uh right now, uh we're at full staff. I say full staff, that's with saying we have two officers going to the academy. Um, we'll appoint them on Monday night.
We have Steve Mccaby and Jonathan Puya. Jonathan's already in the academy. An error on my behalf. He should have been appointed before he went to the academy, but we had a little some stuff going on here. SL my mind. Um, and then we'll appoint Steve McCabe.
Uh, Steve is the actual manager over at Compare Tire. He's leaving town. He's coming to work for us going to the center of the academy. He's actually going to go to the Holio Academy only because he lives that halfway mark for us there to here to here to there. So,
it was the the closest academy we actually get him into as soon as Yeah. The soonest. >> Hopefully, we'll have him back out of the academy and have a full compliment by September of next year or September of this year. Special Services Division. Again, full
staff. We have one detective sergeant. We have one detective. We have one detective SRO. And we have one SRO. Alas Abu is our our straight patrol SRO, which the school is funding for him
right now. At least fortunately, the salary they're funding. And then uh officer Casey falls into special services, but uh Monday night he'll be taking a new role. We'll be appointing him to sergeant. He'll be going at midnights and title in charge of the
special services division. Community police. We're going to continue to do the things that we have been doing all along. Uh, our veterans breakfast, our senior barbecues, uh, the RAD classes that Elilas has been running with Megan Wisinski have just taken off
10fold. Uh, so much great positive feedback that comes out of it. They just graduated a class this past week. Last Wednesday, last Friday. Last Friday. And, uh, but the feedback that came back out was was great. Matter of fact, one
of the rising stars was um >> from Huh? >> Brianna. >> Yeah, it was Briana uh over the town hall. She had a great time. She um actually had to pull her off, the guy. But yeah, we're going to continue to do
our our our community policing as we as much as possible. Big year for us. Uh, in regards to grants, I know you guys keep getting the emails in regards to them. I should probably include finance so that I'm aware of some grants coming along during the way during the year.
Um, but the burn state crisis grant was $67,629 that allowed us to certify every officer, every dispatcher in what's called IAT, integrated communications and tactics. Sorry,
>> assessment and tactics. Yeah, assessment type. Um, basically someone that's in crisis, it teaches us how to handle that situation. Basically, speak to the person, different levels of force that you should or should not use or try not
to use, uh, deescalation techniques and whatnot. 40-hour class per person. There's only about maybe a handful of us that are going to the final class, which is March 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. the other grant for 27,000.
This year we were supposed to replace the motorcycle through a capital request. We don't have to. We were able to get a grant for $27,000 u to purchase the motorcycle. So 2,000 short of what the actual new motorcycle costs and we're going to make it up
possibly through the trade in and of the old motorcycle towards that. That's saved our capital this year. I know you're happy to hear that, Steve. uh municipal road safety grant 19,999.
That was for enforcement of crosswalk and stop sign violations. Unfortunately, this year we had a death of a lady in the crosswalk. And not only are we going to be upgrading some of the crosswalks in the area through um rapid flashing
beacons, but we'll also be doing a lot more enforcement as well. When I say enforcement, it's not necessarily just pulling someone over and getting them a citation. It's also educating them as to why we're out there and what we're actually doing. Matter >> of fact, Lieutenant worked one last week. No,
>> it's uh it's good to be out there and just take some time and stop the drivers and and give them that conversation and they appreciate it and um they all kind of realize, you know, what what we're out there for. So, and beyond that and we also had an OUI section of this that we're doing some later hours that came
from the grant. Each month the uh the basis of the grant and the enforcement changes. So, we will look at stop sign and uh bicycle pedestrian uh crosswalk pedestrian speeding. So, it's a it's been a good option for us to have
E91 support uh the training grant that pays for all of our training for our dispatchers through E91 funds. That was 19,241. Our support incentive grant was 52,995. discounted to the phrase the cost of some of the overtime in dispatch center
uh that's been last couple years and a total $186,000 for 2025. Big round of applause and kudos to Ilas. He has helped me substantially in obtaining a lot of these grants and the funding that we have for us today. We're
going after a bunch more next week, but we're not so hopeful on these. We're just we're kind of reaching and hopefully we get it. um department goals. We're going to keep up with our our our grants on the pedestrian safety and the safety campaigns, education, public
servant announcements. Going to sustain the transparency and strengthen the community and our public engagements. Basically, that's going to be, you know, more of our community policing and our efforts there. Focus on officer wellness and mental health. Um, I became the chief I'm going on eight
years now. And one of my big things was physical and mental health. One of my first goals when I first became chief was we put an actual treadmill in the dispatch center. And at the point at the time, we only had one dispatcher in there. Now we have two. So the treadmill came out. We worked with the two unions
where we actually have a workout program while on duty. Now workout program has has been phenomenal. You can't even get in the gym sometimes for the admin because it's being used so much. But they're uh they're doing a great job with that. It's 1 hour uh on duty, but
they have to have the radio with them and they have to respond if we have an abundance of calls or something something gets stacked up. So the stacking calls. So the mental health portion is what we're really going to start working on a lot more. We did a little bit of sizzm last year. We're going to do a little little more this
year to bring the officers up to the mental health. want our officers not only physically fit but mentally fit as well. And they got to keep increasing our technology and data for our better policing. Um, a lot of our CA our CAD system we have
now which uh is going to be outdated within the next 5 years. Uh, we just got to see which area we're going to go to and which system we're going to end up with. Well, I'm not, but they're going to see what kind of system they're going to end up with at that point in time.
What the good part about it is we're not we're not the only ones in that boat. It's all around us. IMC is a huge component. Whether we keep IMC and they're going to upgrade it, I don't know. Or we actually switch with other departments and integrate that way. I don't know. Then our big uh push right
now is we have to be reacredited by June 30th of this year. Wouldn't be such a big deal reacredited, but we're going from the fifth edition to the sixth edition. So, Sergeant Skola and Lieutenant Lannry have been in the battle room, which is my conference
room, going through all of our policies, all of our procedures, bringing them from fifth edition up to sixth edition, making sure they're meeting the standards, which are how many? >> Uh, about 300. >> 300 standards that we have to meet in regards to that. It should be smoother
the next reacredititation, but going from the fifth to the sixth is a quite a a feat. that and this is the first year that we're doing everything right. We have everything we need and we've been for years keeping them in paper folders and it was all file documents of and paper documents and now we're going all
digital. So we're on uh you know web- based platform and everything gets uploaded. So now we're doing a lot of scanning and just moving everything there to streamline the assessment process where now instead of being here for 3 days to a week and the assessors are in the building, they can kind of just get on that program and they can
see uh right in front of them what everything we're doing and they really have to come in for a one-day building tour and uh it really cleans up the process for the assessment. So just a lot of work getting to that platform for the initials. It's been good
>> operating budget that we requested contractual obligations obviously we can't do anything about it big year this year we actually settled the contract with the police union uh we had some back we had to pay out um education stipen is what they focused on and was increased this year no major
increase in expenses level funded only increases we'll see are basically cell phones uh software and some training education that we took Obviously, we're relying on some successful grant writing this year to upload for next
year as well. We requested 2,93269 expenses of 313,000 and if we switch, we found about 5,000 under our revised budget. We found that in our shift differential to pull out of
it. questions. >> I had a couple in your budget. >> Yeah. >> Your software expenses went up 43%. >> That's correct. >> And your radio maintenance went up 40%. Can you just comment on >> Yeah, absolutely. We took over all the
software uh in regards to maintaining it ourselves. Now, town hall it will not be doing any of that. So, we have it all in integrated into our budget. Okay. Uh radio maintenance. Fire department's going to need some upgrades this year. Um we're putting that also on
the camera systems. A simple portable that we have that we carry a digital digital portable. The simple way to explain it is one of these portables is $8,000. So it's really not a lot of money that we're talking about. If you think about
putting two officers on at $16,000 right there right now, we're maxed out. We're trying to purchase a few other radios under the radio repair budget we have now. Uh fire department's in the same boat. Same as the um
batteries for these Motoras. We have the best of the best. I'm not saying that at all, but that's the only line of communication if something's going on. And I want the best of the best for our officers to be able to communicate with our dispatchers. So, >> so this is just a general comment not on
the police but just on the software as we transfer. >> I don't it's hard to see that the savings and like the IT budget, right? We don't see the IT budget coming down by $17,000 as the police take it on because these things aren't broken out
in such a way that you can see one line item moving to the other. So, I don't know how we solve that or what we do to make that clearer or if we're done moving things that way. It just makes it confusing. That's the police side. Uh, communications FY27 operating budget
requested. There's no real major increases in expensive levels. We are relying on the 60 some odd,000 that we all receive in 911 grant funding. Uh we were able to find some funds in there to cut out. I requested 780 million uh 78,000 for our
wages and 8,500 expenses. A lot of the expenses that come out of dispatch are very minimal compared to police, but they're in the same building with us. So we're able to utilize the same exact expense. We were able to cut $10,000 out of overtime. Again, I'm going to use
utilize the 911 funds for that. The part-time wages, we're down to one part time, well, two part- timers right now. We did have three or four. Uh, we're down to one at this point. And then the shift differential, we found 5,000 within shift differential for us to pull
money out of that. So, we're going to cut 20,000 out of that request, 2.6 decrease. Animal control. Animal control is animal control. It's a whole different animal. Anyways, one
person that we uh per DM contract with, she has 18 hours per week, $27 an hour comes out to 27378 per hours. And our expenses is $10,000. The reason we have the expense account there, it's for
anything that may come up in regards to kenneling the dogs or bod health needs to test animals. It's all comes out of that expense line item there. A lot of times we give a lot of that back, but we have to budget for it in case we need it going forward.
>> What about her? >> Her vehicle we're not responsible for. >> Okay. She that's totally gone now. That's on her own. It's almost like a pretty contract on her own. Okay. Yeah. Like we used to contract with Boxboro, right? And we had a little item there where we were paying a certain amount
per year. That's no longer there. >> So the $27 an hour covers her and her vehicle. >> Yep. >> Any questions regarding animal control? He's got dry. You love that, Steve. um projected FY27
to 313 the cruiser replacement program which we replace two cars per year some years it's three cars right now this year was a three car one but was the motorcycle supposed to be one of them so it's only a two car replacement year this has worked well it's really kind of kept our
cost down the radio m in regards to maintenance of the vehicles and it keeps the officers vehicles at that And I know there's a lot of talk about these cars that are being traded in to go to different departments and we can definitely repurpose them. They're great
and back. But as for responding to emergency call, um they're not there. So that's why big question is where do we see oursel in five years? We're going to have to add audience onto
this department. There's no pands or butts about the increase that's happening in town. The possible 750 housing units or businesses that are coming in are going to cause more population, more traffic, more issues
for us here. So, what does that mean? We need the bodies to actually make sure that we're actually fulfilling the obligation for the town and giving everybody the right um services that they request. dispatch. We're only going to need to add one more body in there. Right now,
we're running two bodies per shift except for the 11 to 7 shift. There's only one person in there and we have a supervisor. So, the next body that'll go in there, bring them to compliment of nine. That'll have us at full staff 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, which means
two dispatchers in there at all times. Administration wise, I've been saying it last for the last couple years. We need to add a records clerk at some point. You know, I really wanted to ask for it this year, but I know where we are where we are at funding wise. And then that's the reason we didn't go forward with
either a records clerk and or another option this year. Push back and we'll hold off another year. We can make do with what we have. Some big things we need to look at. Obviously within the next five years increase in staff or getting ready to
burst out of this year as to where we're going to be in 10 years. So does that mean we started feasibility study in two years, 3 years? What is this building going to get us? Where can we go? We know ourselves that how this building was constructed to put
a second floor on. Do we need to look at that? What what is the the what is the gains for that? we need to go out or do we need to somewhere else? I I don't know the answer. That's why we need to think about that at some point in time. Some of the bigger items I know that
Eric D brought it to your attention. We have some heating system issues here now and he's been working on those. He knows the system's going to have to be replaced within a couple years. We'll figure that out and tackle that when it gets to it. We'll work with Bill
in regards to that. Again, our only capital request this year are two police cruises. We didn't ask for capital plan in 5 years as to what we see. We talked briefly about the heating system here. We got to stay with the two
police cruisers per year. It's pretty simple heating system here. Uh ceiling in the garage floor I put in for that for the last six years. >> As long as the Wilson Aquatics on it has been put in. Um I didn't bother putting in this year cuz
I know what the budget's like. And I know that I already asked for $30,000 to seal the garage floor to say or what you're going to say. So that's why we didn't ask for it. Uh we'll put it on for capital next year again. But that's where we're at. Driveway maintenance. Uh
highway department's been fantastic helping us out with that. We have some money set aside for seal coating which I believe is going to be done in the spring. Not going to put the highway to the town on notice on that but who knows vests. Every five years we got to replace our vest. We received capital
last year for it. We use a little bit of that already. So with a capital item we can still integrate through that money going forward as what we need to do. We do apply for the bullets vest program which will get reimbursed by the federal government at least half of the vest
that we purchase. A vest can cost up to 1200 to $1,300. So mandated in the contract we have to supply them with a vest at some point. Not that we're not going to supply them with a vest. >> How often do you have to replace Milo's vest? >> Uh
are they way more expensive than the officers as I understand? >> Yeah, but his is covered under a grant. Okay. through um the vest of uh >> vestad >> vestad. You're lucky there. And then uh non-lethal weapons upgrade. We right now
are running this. It was going to cost us $50,000 to purchase them outright and then and five years we'd have to reby them again. In 5 years we regain. They had a lease program. We did this in 2022
2022 2022. We leased them and it's $11,300 and some squad dollars per year. But they also uh supply us with all the training cartridges, the target systems that we have to use for training each year uh as part of the lease program. And it's probably maybe like three or
$4,000 more than coming up with the $50,000 right away. I thought it was the best option for us as a small department, a small town. It doesn't gives us a big bite. It gives us a little nibble at it for all five years. So they'll be up in 207 27.
>> So again, we'll probably look to release the tasers as well. No other options are looking other places. Uh taser kind of corners the market. Any questions, comments, concerns in regards to police, dispatch, andor animal control?
I'm curious like can you talk about the call volume and the 911 volume compared like historically is increasing. >> So last last year we had 20,000 I believe 600 and some odd maybe a little more. So we're right around the same exact call volume as to last year. Um 91
calls have gone up which is actually a good thing for us because the more 911 calls we have >> the more money we get from either. >> And then you said you were fully staffed. I see three vacancies. So, one of them is going to be filled by officer Casey.
Like, so there's a sergeant vacant. There's and there's two police officer vacancies. >> It's the two that are in the academy. >> Okay. And then the sergeant the sergeant vacancy will be Casey. So, is is that getting back filled by another officer or >> who's that going to be? >> Oh, Brian Casey's position. >> Yeah. >> No, he'll stay K9 sergeant. >> Okay.
>> But then we have two vacant positions which would be the two we hired and we already have one that hired. So, so, so Brian, so Brian's police officer position >> a total of 24 sworn. >> Okay. So, Brian's police officer position will not get back filmed.
>> It will be backfilled. >> Okay. And >> Jonathan Puya isn't on the list, but he was for dispatch over. >> Got it. Okay. >> I was wondering what said three. Just an aside, Karen and I attended a
fascinating discussion about dark skies and street lights and the LED, bright blue LED street lights actually make things worse because of the glare. And this person had some evidence that using um warmer light actually increased visibility at night. And so I would be
really interested in having a further conversation with you and Mr. oddly about whether that would potentially reduce issues on the cross and also save money for the town because they use less light. >> Yeah. And obviously they were great by
the way the light department. Huge kudos to them. We uh the lady that was struck in the crosswalk the next day they had some a crew out there uh fixing not fixing but readjusting better lighting in that area light. Um it's just an unfortunate
answer in I think. >> Thank you. >> I'm going to ask a question about the non-thal um has and it's kind of in its infancy, but the um like the burnout um launchers. Is that something that um
police as a whole as a profession has looked at, has evaluated? I know that it's a a big push to get people away from buying a personal handgun to kind of try to push people to get these non-lethal, which is like a pepper spray. >> Yeah, we have those tools. We actually
um we have some less less lethal shotguns. Uh they're not out implemented right now. They're in our armory. Uh we just have uh haven't had the an instructor to kind of put our people through that yet. And it was something we're looking at. So you have less lethal shotguns in our profession. It's
like a bean bag round. It's a a true firearm shotgun, but has different types of ammunition you can shoot out of that are considered less than lethal. And then we have 40 millimeter launchers that is you'll is very popular. They shoot like a racket like a raet ball, right? And um those tend to be more safe
because the standoff distance is much closer. Uh but you get one round, right? So uh there just every call is going to be a little bit different. So, it's not easy to to reload those. We like the tasers. They have multiple shots in them. Uh the deficiencies with those, I guess, is if like the winter time if
you're wearing a lot of clothes, right, and you do have to be somewhat close with the tasers. Uh an option out there right now that um I was talking to some of my partners that I used to work with on the squat team is Pepper Ball. Um Pepper Ball OC is a very low level force
uh in considering for uh some situations. So that's something we could look at and we we could definitely look at as an option. Um but right now our only like kind of impact tool like distance is taser. We obviously have we have OC we have batons that we train
with regularly. We have a lot of tools in our tool box that that we can use before we would ever in that less lethal confrontation. But um yeah, they're definitely out there. And I know you're just speaking of with that burnound, but the the less lethal shotguns you which we have, you kind of you lose that tool
when you kind of get into a house and a lot of things we're doing is in a house cuz the standoff distance has to be pretty far. And when we're dealing with a lot of these situations in town, they're in residences or or buildings and stuff. So it's not we're you know the liability is there a little bit more
with that round if you don't have the good training for it. Um, but the pepper ball or those 40 mm launchers, they've been hard to get because of the the the environment. The manufacturers are trying to keep up with uh getting them to. So, we've had some success with the
taser. >> On the non-lethal, you said you're basically leasing them now. >> Yes. >> So, if you're that would basically mean that it's in your operational budget now and it would be coming out. >> Correct. We have a firearms budget. It says firearms >> and um
>> so it's not >> defensive tactics. >> It's not necessarily a new expense. It's just >> potentially a chunk versus >> an operation. >> Right now I haven't put we haven't bid out into that operational budget just because we know it's going to be we knew it was going to be $11,000 for 5 years. So we put it into the firearms budget
that way. >> Okay. Um you mentioned three positions, a records clerk, an officer, and a dispatch. Are those 28, 29, 30? What fiscal year do you expect? >> 28. >> All of them in 28.
>> And the station feas the station expansion you would expect in >> 5 to 10. 5 to 10 years. >> So the feasibility is 3 years to three years. >> 30 years. >> Absolutely. Assuming they're better for the feasibility study. >> We have no lockers left.
>> There's no lockers left in our locker room. >> We're maxed out in the locker room. The office space is getting tight. But yeah, we're doing it. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Enjoy the rest of your day. >> How are things?
I've been spending some time in LA area I had a class yesterday afternoon, you know, but almost every money to be made by the Seahawks within my class.
>> I go up for you know as opposed to trails hanging on. >> All right, sounds good. >> How are you? You guys really look so nice. >> You look very sad.
>> Very sad. I was going to go someplace else. you were to tell it was going to be a good >> I'm preserving my >> for later dates really >> like a plan.
>> Okay. >> Tony do the same thing actually. >> I mean absolutely you're not going to embarrass me. >> Wouldn't bother me at all. sitting
on the beach the other day. >> I didn't I looked I can't find >> so bad or did it get increased? So it but I have conflicting so I can't >> flammable storage is 25.
the select board started must be pretty good 100% increase from last year% 50 years ago >> no I I know that Tom goes forward so that's why 223 that was after I had that
narrow I don't but I just reapprove the whole >> body chief good morning how are you. >> Excellent. Whenever you're ready. >> All right. Well, thank you. I'd like to
start off this morning um by saying something about the department. Um we have an absolutely amazing fire department here in town. I could not be more proud of the men and women that serve the town on a regular basis. Uh so
I certainly wanted to to start with that um so that everybody knows that uh I think you all do know but acknowledges that we have some really great people here. Um fiscal year 2027 I'm going to
flip through my book simultaneously here if that's all right. Um so fiscal year 2027 uh we started with our operational needs. looked to make some adjustments uh with some structural issues that
existed within the budget. Um 3.2 those uh went into a few different areas, one of which was overtime. So, the initial budget looked to increase overtime to 349,000
um in fiscal year 2027. And that is not a random number. That was actually calculated three different ways. Um uh the first one was looking at our historic usage, what it looked like, how that adjusts out into 2027 terms. The second was calculating it. Looking at
what we have for uh time on the books that people are likely to use in a given year. Um training that will occur. Um pretty much any any liabilities that exist. And the third way we looked at it is what would the cost be to fill to
five all the time. Uh and for your information that's about 442,000. uh and then using four fifths of that that all came out to around that $349,000 mark. Um as we look at uh currently in
2026 um we're ahead of schedule on the 205 we had in overtime. So we felt it necessary to start to make those adjustments. Um when we made cuts to the budget the
200,000 we reduced that two um sorry that 349,000 to 249,000 um and then made some other cuts in other areas such as PEDM training uh preceptor which is used to train new paramedics
um and then a slew of uh expenses um professional services uh training and education building maintenance fire supplies EMS MS supplies and travel. So that brought us down to um a budget
of 3,65,415 or a net increase over 2026 of 87,19. Um that next we want to do like that thing when we were in school where the tape would have the beep. I'll just go beep. That would be perfect.
Um so this is uh reiterating the the same information that we talked about. Uh one advantage we do have coming up in 20127 or we're still sort of working through some of the process of it. Uh the supplemental budget that we spoke about in this meeting last year finally
came through uh in November. I think they announced it in November. um gave us some basic guidelines in December and really have um been silent since. Um but the intent of that supplemental
budget is to go towards um current and future needs of uh of staffing of ambulances. One of our challenges that we ran into this year when it comes to staffing of ambulances is that we've only had one ambulance since June of of
2025. Um the new ambulance that was delivered on July 16th has only been in service for about 48 hours. Um and after we're at probably a dozen uh mechanical
failures has been in and out of the shop pretty consistently. Uh we're working with town council on that issue um as we kind of move forward as to our options of what to do with that vehicle. >> Is it on the road now? No, it is still
in the shop. >> So, it's been in the shop now since December. >> Yeah. Forever >> either 18th or 28th somewhere in that that realm. So, significant challenge when it comes
to uh answering of calls. The good news that does come along with that is it does provide a little bit more control on the overtime because now you're not running the two ambulances on a regular basis. Um, we're relying on mutual aid, so we're becoming a little bit of a
problem for our neighbors. Um, our instances of back-to-back calls, especially medical calls, um, exists about 33% of the time. So, it fluctuates between 30 and 35. One of our bigger challenges that exists
right now, however, is our number of triple or three or more simultaneous calls has gone up in the last year from around 2% to right around 10%. Um, and I can give you an example going into just
the month of January, so relatively recent data. Out of the 20 I didn't write down two call it 220 calls, uh, 74 of them happened simultaneously. Um, so we're we have a lot of calls that
all drop at the same time with our highest one being nine simultaneous calls which that was only a single instance of the of the nine simultaneous calls. It was a day similar to this. So driving was a challenge.
Um but it becomes a massive problem for us in terms of um using resources from other communities but making sure that we have the depth on our bench in order to make sure that we're able to get to these calls. Um incredibly important um
for for some of these higher acuity calls that we're able to get there quickly. Um any questions up to this point? I'm happy to take questions at any time. No. All right. >> Excuse me.
Back on the ambulance. Y >> um is is the problem we're having totally unique to our one ambulance or is it a systemic problem with the company that we bought the ambulance from or the consortium of
companies we bought the ambulance from? >> Yeah, very good question. So, the ambulance is um the it's a GMC chassis. It's really a Freight Line Air chassis retoled as GMC, but it's a GMC chassis.
That's where a majority of the issues coming from versus the box is built by a completely separate company. So, a vast majority of our challenges are are with the GM chassis itself. Um I know of some other communities that are having
problems not nearly to the same extent that we are. Um so for example the four-wheel drive I think has now been dealt with three times different pieces of the four-wheel drive system. First time it was uh an electronic part then
it was a physical part. Um so so yes and no is the answer to the question. Um, in terms of other people having problems, >> has the demand letter gone out? >> The demand letter has not gone out. We're just verifying all our time frames. Um, so Karen has seen a copy of
of the letter and it's it's a lot to sit and put together the time frame. Um, and then we're just finalizing our um, demand numbers. >> Is it strongly worded? >> It's strong. >> Good. >> I was going to say I'll defer to somebody who knows the law better than
me. Um do have you sort of thought about the operational or capital impact on the your budget of this is this debacle of this ambulance problem like like can you predict like for this fiscal year next fiscal year what might happen?
>> So the immediate impact is going to be ambulance revenues coming in slower than expected. Um so often there is a lag in annuals revenues coming in which can be 3 4 5 6 months. So we just started to kind of
see that lag. Um to me it should be lagging a little bit more than it is but our call volume was was pretty consistent in uh the last year. Um so uh we we will have an impact
there and that still is going to be time for that to play out because what's what we're having to rely on mutual aid for today. We wouldn't have seen that revenue for again 3 to six sometimes more months
out. Um, so we still don't have a full grasp on exactly what everything is going to uh is going to look like in terms of the capital and replacement. Um, I would love to say that this time they're going to fix it, but
I can't guarantee that by any stretch. Uh, we do have an ambulance that is scheduled in this year's capital budget. Um, so that is something that we really need to prioritize to to move through in order to give us those options down the
road of of how we deal with with this one. >> Have the repairs been under warranty or not of this demand? >> All the repairs have been covered under warranty today. >> Um, question of overtime. So we talked
about running one ambulance. To me, it just looking at from the outside, you would think that you're overtime would mean a pretty drastic reduction. You're not running two ambulances. Therefore, you only have you have five people on the firehouse at a given time. So,
you're only putting two on an ambulance. You would expect the overtime to come down to that. Is that the case or is it I'm curious to see the correlation. I mean, you the money might be the same because we're talking
>> mutual aid in a lot of these cases, but I we are you seeing the overtime side come down because are you calling in people for emergencies that they really can't help with? I mean, what's >> No. So, the call back has has dropped off drastically um over the last 6
months. So, when you looked at our look at our overtime from last year, we ended up at uh 350,686, I think it was. Um this year, um when I did the tracking, now this is a couple weeks old, but when I looked at the tracking of it, I'm guessing we're going
to be in the low 300s, maybe 325. So, there's definitely going to be a little bit of a pullback there. Um, but in terms of five people being in the station, that actually only occurs about 30% of the time because we don't fill that fifth
position. So about 70% of the time we're running four people. Um, even though the shift staffing is is five, that first person out, we generally don't fill. So it ends up being right around that 70% mark. And that fluctuates based on the
time of the year. Obviously during the winter people take a little bit less time off. Um when we went back to July, August, September, we were 90 over the 90th percentile um at running four
instead of five. um as we get that second ambulance back um and and utilize that with the increasing call volume that we will inevitably see coupled with that um that number is going to start to to come up again. Uh we're at that point
where five is really the appropriate number that we should have have working. Uh, one of the statistics that sort of jumped out at me, um, and on the surface probably isn't, um, isn't something that that jumps out
is that our call volume remained unchanged in 2025, right? So, lay person, all right, so there was no increase. Well, typically in a given year, there's another 150 to 200 medicals that we would have done
either mutual aid or um primarily which would have been mutual aid. Um but there would have been additional calls that we didn't even account for this year. So if you take that and say all right, we'll just say it's 100 more. We still experienced an
increase. It just doesn't look like it on on paper, right? That makes sense. So to me that jumps out and says, "All right, in 2027 we're likely going to experience two years of growth in one shot." Um or in
calendar year 2026, we'll call it because kind of hoping the ambulance comes back in the next week or two. Um but we're going to have to absorb I think two years of growth in one in one uh one gulp here. Like I mean I know
like the police emergency services in general um to live in Massachusetts the sad truth is over time becomes part of the reality of an emergency responders living. I mean if you just went off of a firefighter
straight salary or police officer they probably couldn't live within 100 miles of Littleton. But um so I I'm always you know over the last decade or so I'm always looking at the overtime can be a
good thing for a department because employees some employees enjoy working out they obviously the the money that's associated with that. It's the burnout piece. Yeah. >> That we rely on you more heavily I think than anything else regarding um overtime and how it's worked because that's you
know you you came in here saying how great the department is and how happy you are with everybody. But you don't want to get I you've got to let us know when you get to the sense of the burnout factor because we have heard that in the past you know and we we recognized that as this board did and we
reacted and we acted with you know for with four firefighters board. this that's something we have to look at. We don't want it to get to that point, but we a trickle effect if we have to do it. I know you like to get firefighters in groups of four. It just works cleanly, >> right?
>> But just please keep on the the overtime because I I recognize that it's it's staggering sometimes when we look at it. Um especially if you're not familiar with it over a cycle over years. >> Um but it's more the burnout side that I want to make sure that you're always in tune with and letting us know.
>> Yeah. Burnout is uh something that I focus on a lot because um I've seen what burnout can do. So even uh you know even if we are filling to five positions uh down the road likely the order in isn't
going to happen till 4 so that we can create a little bit of that uh a little bit of a buffer to prevent burnout. Um, certainly I've been there before, so I can relate to what what burnout is all about. Um, you know, and it's it has a
number of different challenges that that it creates. Uh, the good news right now when we go uh back 2 years, we did about 4,3 I think it was 3890 uh with the number of hours of orderins. uh projected orderins for fiscal year
26, we should be about 370 to 380 hours. So I would call that a slight decrease to to go from nearly 4,000 down to >> under 400. So um so certainly something that is is
always in the back of my mind and making sure that our folks have all the support mechanisms because burnout can be more than hours worked. It can be acuity of call. Um and that's something that that we pay very very close attention to. Do
do you think the order in hours is a good a good metric to judge whether people are taking overtime by preference or whether they're being forced to work shifts that they would rather not? >> I think that that can I think you can
look at that from a number of angles but I think that uh it does point towards hey yeah I want to be here. I want to you know make sure that that we have the the personnel on duty. I want I don't want to miss any action. I don't want to
um you know have that time away. So I think it is an important an important metric for for the department you know and things happen um and that's what the order ends occur for. They really are a last resort and that's the way I view them is that they're a last resort to
fill in shifts because you know back in December we had the norovirus come into the building and when our entire shift calls out that becomes problematic. >> Yeah. So >> just want to touch on something that
Gary brought up initially. We we've talked a lot about overtime the past couple years. You said that you are five in a ship. You're staffing to four to help get you down to one ambulance. And the ambulance hasn't been in all
year basically. So how are we running 3 20,000 by your estimates for the year coming up? >> So that's maintaining the four per shift. >> So it's you're getting two call outs per shift usually. Is that what you're
saying? >> No. >> So, if you're not filling the first call out, >> Yep. >> you're filling the second call out and third call out. So, you're getting that many call outs during the >> Yeah. So, we've had people at the fire academy and paramedic programs. Um, one
of the good things that we're able to have in the department right now is stability. So, people are now starting to gain vacation time um and use vacation time. So right now when we look at the uh vacation or the time off
liability that exists there is enough hours that it would relate to or would equate to uh one person off every shift for 50 weeks out of the year.
So that's um that's the reality of of kind of the world we're we're living in right now. Look in 2027, we still have some people that are uh in paramedic school. Um and we will again have more
uh time off liability as it as it grows. Thank you. All right. The good news is I think we hit a lot of slides, so we might be doing some skipping of slides. Uh, okay. Yeah, we just talked about
that. Uh, all events. Yep, we talked about that. Talked about Yeah. So, we talk a little bit about staffing uh staff fluctuations. So um when staffing fluctuates it changes the
entire dynamic of the day. So um again under a one ambulance system the fifth position uh isn't something that we're advocating needing all the time. Um, but with two ambulances, what we're able to
do is we're able to answer those three calls or at a minimum uh answer the first two calls and have somebody still available to make decisions on the third call and how we deal with the third call because again matching uh the acuity of the call with the response is always an
important factor for us. making sure that we're uh committing the right resources at the right time uh to to uh hopefully save lives. Um one of our big challenges we run into is certainly
um higher acuity calls seem to be on the rise right now. Uh, and those often times require that three people go on an ambulance to the hospital because you need two paramedics if somebody is is extremely ill. Um, and often times
they're going to Worcester, they're going to Lehey, they might be going up to LOL, not to a local hospital. So, um, again, having that depth in our coverage is important on a number of different fronts.
Uh, let me go to the next one. Beep. >> Um, so this we sort of talked about a lot of these things here and now that it's actually on a big screen and not a computer screen, it is hard to read. >> Oh, >> look at you.
>> He's got nothing on you. Um so as we look at uh this chart, it's a relative chart of uh what we see in our liability which is obviously growing significantly. That would be the the uh
tall purple lines that exist on there. Um and what we expect on uh an annual basis is that that lighter blue. Um, so what this is showing is that we have this growth that's occurring in our
liability. Not that I think that at any point everybody's going to cash in every bit of time that they have, but I think we need to keep that in the back of our mind that um, you know, somebody or a group of people say, "Hey, you know what? We're we're going to Disney, but
we're going for a month." that's an actual risk that exists um within um within our department. Um and again, a lot of this is this is kind of one of those those good things actually because this is stability. This
is what stability looks like um in terms of that liability um and the growth of of that liability. So >> So this is directly related to time off. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So time off the red is
is uh what we've actually spent year to year. >> So managing I mean managing that's a function of both you and the employees obviously. So >> right. So at the end of the day I mean you could are you sitting down with all
your your firefighters and saying okay this is what's left in the year. You've got all this vacation time. Is that even a discussion that takes place or is it more >> often times it's a personal time where all of a sudden people go oh I still have a personal um you know so those we
do have discussions about vacation time and what people think they're going to use that does happen it actually happens prior to the budget um you know and be honest a vast majority of the time it's h maybe two weeks you know and it's not
>> well that's a staggering slide That's why I bring it up. I mean, that's when you look at that that purple bar like that that to me is we've got to manage it. We've got to get this managed. And I don't know what that looks like and how those discussions take place. I know it's not in I don't think there's anything in the contract that states
when and if an employee can use their time. >> It's not No, it's there's nothing explicitly written within the management. >> But is there there's a cap I assume on how much they can acrew. And if so, how close how close is that
purple bar to the top? >> Uh, I don't know. >> Is that vacation or vacation and sick time? >> Vacation and sick. >> Yep. >> And perhal. >> It's a million dollars. >> Just shy a million dollars. >> Yep.
>> And it changes obviously. So, this was calculated a month ago, two months ago. People have taken time off. So now although they've also recruit time so that number is constantly on the move >> and you're saying this this growth of
this has driven by retention essentially. >> Yep. Yeah. So um uh when when your board hired me in May, June, whatever it was of of last year, we had uh 10 open
positions and uh right now we're we're a full. So maybe this is like actually this going forward this might be closer to the status quo. >> It shouldn't be so staggering. >> Yeah, you shouldn't. Yeah, because remember you're adding new employees into the system. So as you look back,
>> you have you're missing 1025. >> That does make sense. Thank you. >> Y perspective. >> All right. Uh yeah, let's go to the next one. Um that seems like we just talked about I'm perfectly fine. Just, you know, my
brain is all squirrels all day. So that works. This works for me. Um, so we talked about that. Um, we talked a little bit about so the bank time isn't doesn't go into our coverage calculations. It doesn't go into that overtime calculation. We're looking at
that much more from a historic use. And again, asking people like, "Hey, how much do you think you're going to use?" Um, one of our big things is we're always trying to move the department forward. Um, one of the things, and this is kind of specific to the fire service, but I'm
going to tell you that this kind of analogy anyways, is when we're fighting a fire, we have two options generally, forwards or backwards. Um, staying status quo is generally the worst possible option. Um, so when I look at
what we're doing overall with the organization, we're always trying to move forward. Maybe sometimes it's by miles, maybe it's inches. Um, this year, one of our our priorities is um through a an analysis of the jobs that the
lieutenants do, they're really acting as captains. um they're doing the duties um that we see in other communities that captains do, other communities of similar size. Um they utilize captains as their um
first level first level leadership positions. um for us uh or for me, this is one of uh this is a a priority for me in order to kind of move this forward um and make sure that we're recognizing people for
the job that they're doing um and not I will say arbitrarily hold them back to a different level that's not consistent throughout u our benchmarked communities. Um so we do uh move the lieutenants in
this uh budget to the level of captain. Uh the total cost for that um including uh wages um holidays um and impacts to overtime time off um
is about 10,000. Um, so it's a relatively small uh piece, but again, we're we're inching forward. I thought I written down the actual down to the penny, but I didn't um >> Did you say it's included in this budget?
>> It is. Yep. >> It is. >> Yep. >> Those are those are still union positions, >> correct? >> Yeah. >> So, was this this was never a bargain for Correct. This is You're making this from a management. >> So, captain has always been there. So um
so the first captain um that ever existed within the bargaining unit was me. Um so that yeah it has been there. Um the actual position exists and it is bargained. >> It just hasn't been filled. >> So but you you're trying as a manager as the strong chief you're making a
determination now obviously with discussion with you personnel but that the captain structure makes more sense for your growing department. So it's not going to end up in in a it's not going to be part of bargaining.
>> So correct. Yeah. So this will be replacing the lieutenant. So we're not hiring additional people. We're not filling multiple positions. This is taking people and recognizing their their appropriate >> uh positions.
>> So the the impact to do that they're estimating for this year is around 10,000. Yep. >> And then the contract is up at the end of this f this 27 f this year. >> You got a year and a half left on it. So yeah. >> Yeah. I had to think about that cuz >> it'll be June of next year, right?
>> It's one year after the police. >> So June next year. So 27 is the last year. This contract >> 27 the last year. >> I just couldn't remember the time. Thank you. So it I mean so it's not really going to be 10,000 because they're going to be going into negotiations and they say I'm
a captain now and I should be getting >> that be for 20 that'd be for 28 >> right the cost of 27 is that 10,000 agreed >> but then yeah >> you can expect a bump >> it's negotiable at at that point yeah
>> and then the ultimate goal would be to you have these captains and then promoting some new tenants. >> So that would be further down the road. Um that would be after we we add more people based on growth of the town and the community um and having those
multiple tiers now of leadership to deal with the simultaneous calls because we see those as being our biggest problem moving forward. Um and it allows us an avenue for success for people to um move
up the ladder incrementally so that um down the road we have all the right people in all the right places and they're all homegrown. >> And how many more people can you fit into the five? >> So um so we can fit four uh one more at
least one more on each shift. And I'm just trying to think. I don't have the perfect answer for you on that. Is at least four additional people can still fit. No problem. It's whether it's four or eight. That's what I
>> I know we can fit more people. I'm just debating whether it's four or >> big bunks. Bunk beds. >> Yeah. >> That's what the roof is for. >> The ultimate goal is to have a captain and a lieutenant. Ultimately, you'd have a captain and lieutenant on each shift, >> right? But you're looking at having six
or seven per shift at that much bigger. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> There would be no plan to do it at the current five person shift. It would stay with with the captain. >> Yep. In my mind, I'd see it going the other way that we'll keep it at the tenant and
then as we grow, that's when make that internal adjustment to move some people up to captain back bill lieutenants. Um, it's the same. We're going to run into that problem, but it's top down. He's
you're going a top down approach. I >> I guess the question is >> I'd rather see the bodies first. Yeah, I I understand that. But the four the next four firefighters we hire potentially theoretically will be lieutenants. They won't be lieutenants. The upward moveable lieutenants. You'll still have
four firefighters per shift, a lieutenant and a captain. >> If we do it in the next four, >> right, which the decision of whether it will absolutely be in the next four or if it would be in the next eight. Okay. That's still up for >> discussion. Yeah.
It's not anymore. You're just moving. >> It's the same title comes with something. >> I understand your concern. >> And that's second deputy chief instead of captains. >> So, uh, so the second deputy chief is in
the longer term plan. Um, that's looking a whole bunch of >> training versus operational >> operational deputy. >> So the second deputy uh we would look be looking at likely in the 2032 FY32 time
frame. Um but that person would be overseeing uh training, health and safety. So very um very specific responsibilities in terms of uh making sure that we're complying with OSHA
regulations, OMS regulations, DPH, you name it, all those agencies that are just large. Um so that would be their primary uh driver because with we have additional employees we have
additional liabilities that exist in terms of making sure that everybody is uh is trained appropriately and hitting all their their benchmarks on a regular basis. So having a formal um or more formal process to ensure that is
critically important. I think I just skipped the last page and took it while the slides on staff here. So we have >> Okay. >> 2500. >> Yep.
>> 20 in the looking at at least four to eight hires. >> Correct. >> At different positions. So there'll be promotions and things over how many
years you think it's >> uh so it would be over this would go out to 33 uh 33. Yep. So anything beyond 3 years
is a very difficult um it's very difficult to know what's going to happen in the community. I think we can all probably agree on that. I think if you we went back 3 years ago, what's happening at 550 King Street, I don't think that was really on too many
people's radar. Um, so the same thing can happen. So, one thing that that I want to emphasize is that everything's scalable based on the reality of what's happening in town. All of a sudden, the project at 550 King Street goes, "Ah,
we're just building one building and then we're out." that changes the entire uh the entire plan moving forward. Um so one of the things you have slides about future staffing in front of you is that
it has to consistently be looked at adjusted and made sure that it's still a reality for for the community. Obviously it can go either direction. we could all of a sudden have some other uh uh building or project that comes into town
and just blows everything out of the water and we go, "Oh, we need to we need to move in a much more aggressive fashion." So, um I think we have to keep that in mind moving forward. Hence why it's not on this this year you have to
hire this many people. It's it's very much it's 4 to 8 and reality is going to really dictate uh what the final options are if that makes sense. >> That's why it's so difficult to be proactive. I think
>> in specifically for fire it's more of a reactive. We saw that when we hired four or five. We were reacting to a reality where right now we're trying to predict the what it's going to look like and what what 550 is actually going to do plus everything else that just naturally
happens. when we look just at the 550 King Street projects utilizing local comparative um uh developments and then applying a multiplier to it. We looked at uh potentially upward of 950 additional
calls per year. Um >> but that's a total buildup. I mean that is >> that's that is a total total buildup but it's for that one project. That's not communitywide. That's just that that singular project.
Um, you know, other smaller projects there. There's always people coming into the station looking for site files and hey, was there ever a building here? Was there ever tanks here? So, we know that things are being assessed in terms of,
hey, can we build in different locations in town, but till they drop plans, we don't know for a fact. So, it's it's very difficult to to predict. So given the increase in in potential calls with that, when is it
the third ambulance? >> I don't think we're far away from the third ambulance. I think that um should have a second one first. >> Yeah. Well, I was going to make that joke. You beat me to it, though. >> Um so the the third ambulance,
>> let's assume they were. >> Yeah, we'll make that assumption. I don't know. Maybe we're down to zero. I don't know. Um so this year, um the replacement that's scheduled for an ambulance this year, the initial plan was to keep that as a
mechanical backup so that we have the third ambulance so that all of a sudden one's not running, we have a second one. Um which would give us that option down the road when we move to six people a shift or seven people a shift that we
can have that we can put that third ambulance into service. um you know that's going to be all call volume call volume and staffing based exactly the time frame of that annual going up um and in service. So
>> just one side well before I lose this one. >> Well, you get one ambulance now >> and you're having a lot of overtime just staffing to four. If we go to three
ambulances, two per ambulance, that's six. You have 700 shift, you're going to run into still overtime issues even at that staffing level. >> Overtime will always >> will always adjust with with staffing. It's it's a reality of having
>> more staff, the more potential time off people have and you're still covering the same amount of shift. So, how do we get out of that 10 per shift and then your staff to seven? Is is that the answer to all this? >> I mean, if you're putting that option on
the table, I'll take it. >> I'm asking the question. >> Um, I don't think anybody's figured that one out. Um, you know, but it probably is two more than what your plan staffing is is probably is probably where you end
up. So, if it was eight, then yes, 10. um you know that it might work. I would have to really truly sit down. You and I would have to sit down and throw things into a wall and see how we can make it work.
>> And if they all showed up, half of them could go and mow the cemetery because they don't have anything else to do. >> That was one of my favorite jobs when I was >> Yeah. >> years ago was mowing the cemetery. >> It's kind of weird. We'll leave that.
I'm not going to tell you where's the mental health part. >> Yeah. >> So, so right now you're at five per shift and in your 28 29 you're wanting to go to six per shift >> and you were still running two ambulances or we running three ambulances at that point. So, the
original plan was to have at least the third ambulance. Whether it was in service or not would be really based on whether we're filling shifts. Um, I would say that we're not going to have that option at this point because we're running the 1A that is running is
accumulating mileage in an awful herd. Um, so we're already up getting close to that 150,000 mile mark on it. Um, it's not going to last another it'll last another 50,000 if we're lucky. >> So So in the capital plan, you have a
third ambulance now at in FY29. Are you saying now that it should be 28? without you saying I >> mean in your perfect world I think you've talked in the past you wanted a third ambulance and that third ambulance would be able to run when this one broke you had
>> yes >> whether we had it there or not whether it was one that had a lot of miles on it but still had use that that was a plan you were talking about >> that was originally the plan and it would be 28 because of the time the build time frame right so approved in 27
the build time is 12 to 24ish up there right now 12 to 24 months Um, so really it would it would put that third ambulance in the station in 28 with the challenges we're running into right now. We're probably pushing that
off another cycle. So not this replacement this year, the next one which is in 29, >> right, would be when we would likely be at that point. But now if it's in the capital at 29, you're not getting it
till 31. >> I hope they solve this whole build thing because you used to be able to get them, you remember, you used to be able to get in 3 to 6 months, >> right? >> There's no reason for them to be 12 to 24 months. Absolutely. So your ambulance is not keeping up with
your potential staff at that point in time because you're you're bringing on another one in 28 or 29 to 31. By that time the ambulance you're using now is is
well beyond its lifetime. >> So we have a lot more to deal with than just the ambulance. >> Right. So again, I talked about our increasing in our three plus calls that continues to go up. We need b we need
bench depth uh in order to make sure that we're accomplishing those objectives. Right? This year, one of the things that we found is that the number of ambulance calls as a function of percentage has actually come down from 70 to 63. And that could because be
because we don't have a second ambulance. Um, but what we did see was we had a good bit of growth in nonEMS related calls. Right? So, if we're looking at purely, hey, we're just dealing with the ambulance,
30 to 40% of the calls are not involving an ambulance. So, we have to be able to factor those in as well, right? and somebody being there uh you know a paramedic there even without an ambulance for somebody who's having a a
medical emergency is certainly important in the uh chain of survival for that person. Right. So while we don't have the second ambulance, having somebody that can take the pickup truck or the engine um that might be out on the road to go to a call is a critical step in
that chain of survival for for patients in town. even if we're waiting for animals to come from another community. >> So in your call in in your data that you just talked about 7:30 whatever it was
you're not counting the mutual aid calls from that Westfit's covering or is covering or or whatever. >> So we do >> we do count those. >> Oh they are counted. >> Yep. So even with those calls, mutual aid, your call volume's going down.
That's what I'm hearing >> as a percentage. >> Because now we're not we're we're utilizing mutual aid. It's not mutual right now. We're we're a drain on the system. >> So we're not returning the same. Generally speaking, we return as many
mutual aid calls as we bring in. This year, those numbers are all out of whack because we can't. >> Yeah. we simply just we can't return the paper I guess. So that's most likely where you're seeing that um that decrease.
>> What's the lead time on an offtheshelf ambulance versus the whispang ambulances that we buy? >> 12 months. >> There are some other offtheshelf ones that are they always sit right at the GVW. Um,
so we start putting equipment on and then we're driving an overweight vehicle. I'm not playing that liability game. Um, and those ones are about 9 months, but I'm not >> So we're better without an ambulance than having an ambulance sooner.
>> Yeah. I mean, if we're going to incur liability, sure, of having an overweight vehicle, we're better off without it. Okay. So, not sure that you answered my question or I didn't understand your answer. So,
Oh, sure. >> Um, when you you have in your budget for 2829 four new staff, >> um, do you want the four new staff before you have an ambulance or do you need the ambulance first? A third ambulance?
>> Oh, uh, I mean, I would take it either way. My preference would be to get the people in because they're going to have the fire academy, they're going to have training. So, even if they come in a year prior to the ambulance, we're not going to have full use of
those people for that year. Um, so likely that 30 ambulance, even if we wanted to, wouldn't be an option. >> So, you need the 30. So, you want the 30 ambulance when those people are fully functional >> as opposed to hiring. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Yeah, it would need to be that way. So, yeah, you would need at least a year. >> Thank you. >> Chief, with all these moving parts, >> there's no moving parts. >> No, it is a future. >> Yeah.
>> Is there a way over the next month or so that you could sit down with Robin and Kim and kind of like project a future budget as as you're bringing in this staff, what it's going to look like? Because >> Sure. We're not seeing this type of
growth in any other department right now. And this is this is going to be a huge expense. So, not only staffing and and operations wise, but when is that
new fire department uh station going to be needed? When when is the equipment actually going to be needed? Do we need to look at this capital plan and shrink things in, start ordering it earlier? Just if you could sit down with the two of them. Sure. Just go through and come
up with something. >> Just to play advocate a bit. Police just said they needed three new bodies and a new station next soon, too. So, >> he's not the only one. >> Much >> No, he said three bodies next year. >> Yeah. >> So, four bodies, three bodies. We're in
the same ballpark. I mean, I think one thing that I did want to uh just put on the on the table for today um and it's somewhere in one of the slides, but we've been all over the place uh is grant opportunities through uh FEMA. So, the safer grant
allows us to hire firefighters. It covers their base wage uh and all their expenses whether it's gear um training or um uh insurance etc. All those um other
pieces of it for a three-year window. So typically less than 5% of safer grants get awarded. So we're right out of the gates we're already a little bit behind on this. Uh but typically when you apply for a safer
grant, it's about a year before they actually uh issue the first rounds of grants and they do them in small batches. 10 here, 10 there and that goes on for months and months. One of the opportunities we have with a growing community um is uh we
have a good narrative. we have a good message that we can put to uh FEMA and uh go for the additional staffing uh sooner rather than than waiting until it's a critical need. So, what I'm
looking for is a discussion or approval that in May or June that we are able to apply for a safer grant for four additional people. Um again, likely would be a year before we know whether we're getting one or not. Um, and then we're not on the hook for those four
people for three years after the day they start. Um, so just say they start July of next year. Um, July of Yeah. 27. Um, it would be 3 years after that uh
when it would come onto uh the town's budget. So I wanted to kind of throw that out there as as an option as we look at growth. Um, one of the things that I will caution against is doing smaller increments. So, one
here, one there, because typically you get a grant. We'll just say you put in for one person, you get one person, they'll say, "Yep, see you in four years." Uh, so I would caution against going small there. Um, but I wanted to throw that option
out on the table for discussion purposes. >> This is the safer grant base salary only or salary and stipens? salary, stipens, um, benefits, overtime is not so overtime would be the only thing that's not covered,
>> I guess, is an easier way to put it than listing out the rest of the stuff. >> And after the 3 years, it's >> then it's 100% responsible. Correct. It used to be gradual, but now it's just >> Yeah. It used to be a 5 years, so it would be like 100, then 80, then 50, whatever it was. Now it's 3 years and
then it's yours. >> I mean, we can all agree that and by then we would need the four firefighters anyway. >> So, but one one would speed it up probably a little bit and one is more on us
gauge and determine if the need is. That's all. But I just think it's, you know, you said 5% or less. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to go to Vegas on those. >> Yeah. I mean, it's not it's not great odds. Again, it's depending on other things. Sometimes it's less than 1%
chance. Uh like your bond rating factors into the entire thing. So, >> there's a whole algorithm to it. >> We haven't been very successful. >> No, but we have. >> We love
you. Now, no pressure on myself on that one, right? >> That's a good performance. >> Yeah, there we go. >> That's fair. Going a little over time, but >> yeah, I apologize. >> Talk about the engine. >> Wait, can I ask you a question before we
leave the operational the Nasha Valley money that we're getting in? >> How does that factor into your budget this year? and what will be the impact in 28 um based on if there's no money come if you're spending money this year that we're getting you know if it's
helping supplement your overtime for example and then in 28 there's not that money we're going to have to either cover it or something else that's my >> yeah valid uh good question there um so the money um again has been released
there's still there's still some cards being played Um, so it will expire come June 30th of 207. So, um, any money unspent by June 30th of 27 goes back to the state and they do
whatever they do with it. Um, so when I look at this current year's uh, budget, the condition of the budget, yes, overtime is over. Um, but we've had a position open. We've had somebody in in military where we only cover a piece of
their their wages. Um and we've lost some people that are higher on um uh or one person who's higher on the >> pay scale >> uh pay scale. So there is already a little bit of uh overage that exists
within other parts of the budget. um looking a couple weeks ago, we're going to be close as to whether we're functioning uh under the set budget or whether we have a true issue going into the end of the year. Um so some money is going to
get uh put in or made available for this year, but a vast majority is going to get pushed to next year. >> So So maybe to restate what you just said, you can tell me if I'm wrong. um you um may have over spent your overtime this year and you're going to supplement
it with those funds. Whatever is left will go into the overtime for next year effectively. And you're hoping and then if there's and that will be what's spent first out of overtime next year and anything left would be turned back. >> So spent by June 30th.
>> We're not going to submit it back. We're not sending it. >> Yeah. No, that but it can be >> back to >> back to the town, right? >> Assuming we spend all the >> So if you had 300,000, you spent 100 this year, you have 200 left, right? That will be the first money you spend
on overtime next year rather than the 250 we allocated. >> Yeah. So we have to we have to figure out exactly how all that will work and make sure it's all >> but that's the theory on what we would be doing. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. the theoretical we just have to
>> I understand >> cross the tees and dot the eyes on that to just make sure we're >> in compliance with whatever the rules. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we didn't the question was more we didn't lower overtime budget for this year assuming we were going to use their money and then next year all of a
sudden the overtime budget's going to double because we were using their money, >> right? >> Yeah. I mean, we're Okay, >> now you want to talk about the engine, >> please. >> Okay. Uh, so we have another engine on
this year. This is again another piece to our uh replacement monitoriization um and hopefully fleet reduction um down the road. Um, another one of those moving parts. Um, so right now um engine
uh engine 2 is up for replacement. Uh it's sitting right now at uh 1.391 million. Um that number is likely to come down, but they don't release the next uh the budgets typically until mid
till late February. So I was sort of hoping they're going to be early this year and I was going to be able to come in and go, "Hey, guess what? The numbers going down. Here it is." for the time being. Um I think it's prudent to stay at the the 1.3, but I would fully expect
that that number comes down before well before town meeting. >> So last year's engine would with the >> 85 >> we put in 1.3 that came at 987. Does that sound right?
>> I think that's what the contract was was 987. So we should uh and that that's firm that that isn't going to change that 987. >> Hopefully it doesn't change. >> That was so we we should get an article
this coming May so we can recapture some of these funds to get it back into the stabilization account. >> I mean to close capital articles, >> right? >> Yeah. Now you and I have talked about some of the engines um some of the in previous
administrations I'll say or whatever we'll look at it um certain piece of that engine um power different things have were the first things to be cut and it ends up hurting you on the other end. >> Mhm. >> We're looking at that last year as a
987. What does that engine look like? Is that engine something that you're comfortable with or is it you know when we're looking at the price of the 1.391 um you want you want these engines to last as long as they can. I know when you first came in you evaluated the
fleet and there were a lot of issues with the engines that you if you were chief probably would have not cut into certain make you make certain cuts to individual engines >> specifications >> specifications of those engines. Is that still something that you have in this
plan that you're >> Yeah. So the the truck that's on order um so the way that the the decision was made as to exactly what components in the truck, we have a committee that vetted a lot of fire trucks. Um they
went through and and um put together unbelievably good truck. When you say committee in house committee >> in house committee y >> um because at the end of the day I'm not going to drive the truck generally. I'm probably not going to be the person
that's pulling the equipment off of it. So the firefighters need to be comfortable with with the setup of the truck. Um but I'm very confident in the truck that they have made have have put the specs together on that it is going
to be a great truck. Um, and really it's maintenance is what kind of drove us to where we are now. We have uh an incredibly uh robust maintenance program at this point and an aggressive uh maintenance program where we're doing
our oil changes probably a little bit early, but a little bit early is better than late. >> What year is engine two now? >> Uh engine two is a I think. Yep. It's a six and a figure of three goes all the time.
>> What do we do with the old end? >> What do we usually get? >> Uh, all depends. Um, so expensive. >> How much do we have to pay take it from? >> So, not in this town, but that's happened. Yep.
>> Um, yeah, generally it's not a lot. By the time somebody's getting rid of a truck, it's the market is not great. ends up in a parade. >> Pretty much the key. >> Ambulance 525.
>> Yep. Ambulance 525. Um that's uh on the normal replacement schedule. So that uh replaces medic 2, which again is right around the 150,000 mile mark right now. By the time anyone comes in, we'll be fing with that 200 >> from the same whisbank company we bought
something from our >> I mean I figure our luck's got to be better the second time, right? Yeah. No, we know >> rescue boat. >> Rescue boat. So, the rescue boat was originally on the schedule, I think, 2 years from now. Um, it had to move up
because it has trouble staying on the appropriate side of the surface. Um, so typically boats like this have a 10-year expiration. This one's about 20 years old. So, we've gotten our money out of it, I think. Um, so that's a that's an
important piece uh because of the number of of bodies of water we have in in the community. So being able to go out and it'll be a money maker then going to rent it out for bass tournaments. >> Yeah, actually that's a good idea. >> I didn't think of that. Um,
and that's what's those are the three items that are on this year. Previously there was another vehicle on there. We found a alternative funding for that. So that's off the off the list. Steal that. That's a Zodiac style. >> Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. You don't like pulling people over the side of a hard boat because then you do more damage then it's bad idea. >> Any other questions? >> Thank you. >> No problem. Thank you. >> Stay warm.
>> I'll be all right. tomorrow. Tomorrow you'll probably still do this. Won't be for very long, though I'll do it. >> We've invested interest, >> Steve. Thank you for being patient. Appreciate it. >> I just want to snow off the window.
That's all. Clever that you arranged snowtorm for today. Just give a couple of minutes. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Oh yeah. But they have to submit the
>> they're willing to and I dialogue I said I said we're starting now. >> Sure. >> Nice.
>> Would love that. Thank you. >> Back. That area straight down. >> Yeah. Down into your leg. Yeah. moving part. >> Oh, >> and shovel. Okay. >> Yeah. still delivers.
Yep. 20% guys from as well. >> What pub are you? Let's stay classy. All right. Thank you for having me. Lovely day outside. >> Should you be somewhere else? Yeah. I
can kind of see out the window. So, Yeah, we have people to handle that. >> I think it was clever that he did arrange the snowstorm on the day that he's in. Absolutely. We can only get everything else to work out like that. I wouldn't
be here. That's what So, uh few things we did over the past year, uh at public works, uh we did reconstruction and repaving on a total of 10 roads. Uh that total out to a
little over four miles cost of roughly $965,000. Uh we did the installation of the rapid flash and the Goldsmith street corridor. Uh we contracted for four of them. Uh the fifth one which is by the Shaker Lane school uh we received from a grant
from DOT. Uh so now there the five sets that the town owned uh up Goldsmith Street. Um, obviously if you're familiar with the Foster Street project, that's heavily under construction, uh, still on schedule for, uh, summer completion this
coming summer. Uh, project is about 65 70% complete, uh, currently. Uh something that's been kind of forgotten about through the years, uh the Beaverbrook Road Great Road intersection, uh that finally made it to 25% design,
uh which was funded by the town. Uh the project is now in the hands of Mass DOT to bring forward uh 2050. >> You couldn't keep it in your hand. >> That was that was done before I got here. So, um, we did have a call on
that, uh, with the team from DOT and the consultant, a couple weeks ago. The hope is 25% design public hearing, uh, at some point late spring over the summer. Um, and then it'll get slotted into the uh, funding sources at DOT and no
anticipated construction date at this time. uh we completed the stormwater asset management project that had gone through uh various approvals meeting the select board and things. Uh what that did was
give us a a very good overall look at our storm water system, the drainage system. Um a lot of covert inspection, a lot of video inspection, uh a lot of camera work went into that as well as just physical inspection, right? fill out the uh forms, the status of the
system um and gave us a good uh 5 and 10 year capital plan looking forward uh on that. Obviously, we have the ongoing compliance with the the landfill. Uh we completed uh design and permitting for the frog pond over by Long Lake uh which
will be hopefully bid out uh shortly uh with anticipation of weather permitting spring summer construction. Uh we completed the update to the paving management system which gave us a good 5-year uh projected paving plan. I say projected because things always move
around depending on conditions or we coordinate with national grid for gas or uh the water department for when they're doing uh main replacements. So we don't pave the road and somebody comes in must tear it up a year. Um and then we did a
a decent size drainage job over on Jennifer and Lan Street. We had some separation in the pipes uh which led to some root incurs and some blockages. So uh we got that taken care of. Uh going forward for this year uh the stars have
aligned. I'm going to finally do uh Russell Street. Uh we'll get into that right as school's getting out. Uh obviously we've been pretty aggressive with our roadway repaving plan. I want to begin uh bring in a consultant and begin looking at uh Harwood A uh the
sidewalk from the depot uh to just past Mil Pond. Uh we're reaching the point and again this will go back to the storm water asset management plan. Uh we're at the point with that covert uh on hardwood at Mil Pond uh that we need to
really um look at that uh cuz we don't want to get the phone call that we have a real problem. Uh, so we are really at the point to look at replacing that cover. I know there's all sorts of we're draining Mil pond, we're filling it in, we're doing all this, but you know, I
got a plan for today. So, we have a culvert and plus I have sidewalk design from basically uh Stony Stream, Lake Warren up to Foster Street. So now if I bring it in from the depot, I can I can almost lump that into one whole construction project. And there's
funding sources uh that will help with um construction costs when we get to that point that I have to do some design work first. And then obviously following in with the recommendations of the that come out of the stormwater asset management plan. Uh
identified some sort of higher priority culverts most kind of small in nature. Uh there are a lot of programs through either DOT or or DP uh for small bridge and culvert replacement. So, as we get into that, there's a there's a round
coming up soon. Uh, we're going to apply for a couple of coverts, see what shakes out. Uh, chances are we won't get all we applied for, but if we get one, it's a start, right? Um, so requested operating budget, uh, what
I requested was mostly level funded. Again, obviously some increases in vehicle repair, parts, roadway supplies, things like that. Basically, it's just the cost of doing business, right? Everything's uh creeping up a little bit. So, what I had planned was uh
roughly 5% increases in some of those smaller lines. Uh after going through the process with the team, uh what we ended up with um was a little bit less in some expense lines. The big
one was road repairs. uh almost $100,000 decrease. Uh we've reduced some of the transfer station lines based on actuals. Uh that historically looking back 5 to 10 years, it seems to the tipping
and disposal fees tended to be a little bit overbudgeted. So we kind of cut some of the fat out on that based on what we're actually spending, right? What our actual tonnage and disposal is. Uh my seasonal work is we did a little bit of a cut to that line which I had kind of
had in the original budget. Anyway, the landfill monitoring is starting. We're starting to see a decrease. We're down about $10,000 this year and a lot of that is uh lab sampling that we don't have to do anymore as we slowly creep towards compliance with that. So, you
know, this is the first step. Hopefully, you know, as we continue on over the next few years, that'll continue to slowly kind of decrease. Um, my budget still maintains some of those slight increases in uh vehicle
maintenance, parts, uh, material lines. Uh, and then you see the last line there, total cuts from what we proposed, uh, is 148,500. Uh, going forward, operating needs. Um, again, just continuing, you know, the
part vehicle parts, uh, asphalt, things like that. The prices continue to to tick up, so we need to just stay on top of that. Uh, you've heard it from prior to me today. Um, all I'll say is
we need help. It's that simple. Uh, I am down a guy right now. I just lost a guy. Went back to work on a line crew at Littleton Electric.
Um, right now I have 10 people. 10. So, you don't think about that a lot of the times until couple weeks ago we get 20 ines of snow, right? Then I get the phone calls, how come this sidewalk's not done? you know,
why didn't you plow this conservation parking lot, you know, until a week later because I got a snowshoe in the woods, you know. Well, I got 10 guys as administrator Douglas. He came down on Wednesday after the storm and my guys looked like the and
I'll date myself, the start of the thriller video. You know, the zombies walking up the street because >> they work 50 hours straight, >> right? Sleeping in the front of the truck for a couple hours. But I we we need help.
>> You know, I've sort of said that since I come on board here four plus years ago. I'm not quite sure how they do what they do. And now being here, you know, we we make it work. You know, what what we all we need, we all we got we all we got. We
all we need. Um we just But again, uh you know, highway and parks could use help. uh we would benefit from having a town engineer and then I say the second mechanic, a junior mechanic. Um and that
I could go on for 20 minutes. You know, we could be doing uh work on town hall vehicles. We do do some work here or there when we can. Uh most recently, we did some tires on one of the EHS vans. You know, just we have the time, I have the people, I have the equipment. Um,
this time of year it's a little tougher because I got to rotate and you know, we're always fixing plows, fixing sands, making sure we're ready to go. But if we had a second mechanic, uh, we could do a little bit more of that as opposed to all these other departments outsourcing stuff, we could do it.
That will trickle into my next slide. I think uh, which is building. We'd love to take on other stuff, but we can't. I'd love to have extra people, but I can't. I have no place to put them. You hear from
uh police chief earlier, you know, they're to the point of almost and Chief Todd and I have talked, they're almost at the point of if they add officers or add staff here, they have no place to put them. Well, I truly have no place to put them. Uh again, my lunchroom is the
locker room, which is the training room. You know, it's just it doesn't work. Uh I have vehicles and equipment outside. Uh I've been fortunate over the last year uh to be able to use partly lumber
uh the big building as storage off for offseason stuff. Familiar with any of that. They're uh working on the building right now. So all my stuff is scattered across town. Uh you know just in an effort to keep it undercover.
Once that building is complete, we'll be able to put some things back in. We won't be able to use it for vehicle storage uh like we were doing because there's no sprinklers. So, we can store certain things, implements, things like that, but I won't be able to stash what
we were stashing. And the same for LWD. Um but eventually, we need space, right? uh come down the garage on Monday, first thing you'll see every truck parked in there like this. I still have some stuff outside stashed under the thing plugged
in. So, it's just not only does that decrease the life expectancy of a vehicle or a piece of equipment, it's just it's it's not a way to offer. We have no uh wash facility. So, you
know, this past week, you know, it's zero. So, how do I ask guys to go out and wash a sander outside? It's zero. We make it work, right? We clean a bay in the garage. We pull the truck in. We just pick a spot and that's where we make a
mess. I don't have floor drains, the proper floor drains anyway for a wash bay. So, we got to kind of push the stuff outside. It's just again, it's not only again does that decrease the life expectancy in my vehicles. I get constant breakdowns because I can't get the material cleaned, greased properly.
So, that's a bit of a struggle in the length of time. Um, and just the building itself, right? We've done small little upgrades, you know, coat of paint. Picked away at doing all the lights through the whole garage. They were still the original lights to the
building from the 80s. High pressure sodium high bay lights, you know, like you see in an old gymnasium that take a half an hour to warm up. You can hear them warming up. So, we've now the whole building we on our side anyway is all LED lights. It's bright. People can see
what they're doing. As far as the mechanics be, I'd love to have the second mechanic like I spoke of be able to maybe bring in some of the other uh vehicles from around town. Help everybody save a little money. Um I only got one lift. So if I have something on a lift that's
ours, well, I can't do anything else. I only really got two bays. Again, space, right? We completed the feasibility study. um last year, you know, the estimates of a
of a new building with a a little bit of an inclusion for if we had to uh buy a piece property, you know, we're looking 40 45 million to bring up to what we need based on a little bit of growth in uh staffing. You know, right now I have
an admin, I have myself, we have uh Steve Whitten, and then I have the right now 10, but I should have 11 people if I throw in the two summer kids. And then the two transfer station attendants, even though they're mostly at the transfer station, but if we do do an all staff meeting or training, they come
down. We just don't have uh or I'm borrowing space next door. So, obviously, you know, we got this, you know, I don't want to sound, but um the school project is, you know, now moving
forward. And to me, before we get into, you know, going up floors in this building and doing things, I'm sure, you know, I know fire, they need to add people. We, you know, we're kind of like the forgotten folks, but we need a little bit of help. Uh, and I know it's
a lot of money and it's not just kind of snappy fingers, here we go. Uh but it's something that really really um needs to be talked about, needs to really be considered to start moving forward on. >> Just just stop it for a second. So that
study came out two years ago now just about >> uh it was towards the end of last spring. >> Okay. Has anything happened? Any movement on that at all? Nothing. And I think a lot of that was because
the school was pushing forward, right? You know, it's $100 million or whatever the final number is for the school. >> Yes. >> You know, obviously you see the turnout at town meeting. I would hope I get that kind of turnout when it's my turn. I kind of doubt it. I'll try.
>> You may get a turnout. >> Yeah, exactly. Well, >> there's no way that facility that you're talking about can get on the car. So that was um one of the options that's looked at. It is it is not ideal. Could
we make it work? Yes. It would have to go way out in the back, move the fuel island, move the leech field which is under the fuel island. It is just the site work cost makes it almost prohibitive. Um not to mention the filling in that back to help with um the
capacity with the uh leech field for the sore system. Right. So, how the breakout element, you know, not to get all technical and filling all that in, they need the space to increase flow uh at the high school uh disposal site. So, we would have to then remove all that to
get the building back down. So, there's a few properties around. We looked at, you know, town owned, uh, privately owned. You can kind of narrow in on a few little function, uh, for what we need. four or five acres by the time you get salt sheds, storage areas, that type
of thing. Um, but again, it's all it's all timing on when we can secure funding to start moving forward. Um, as far as this year's capital, uh, kind of continuing along with the with
the simple, uh, vehicle and equipment replacement, um, plus a few other things. Uh, my items for this year were replacing the mechanics truck. It's 2008 Chevy. Starting to get a little bit of rot on the utility body. Um,
mechanically it's pretty good. Uh, but it's sort of reaching the point of its useful life for us. Uh, as you heard, some of the trucks are, you know, it can take a year or so to get. Uh, what I've
seen recently is that our the actual truck, the cabin chassis, we can get pretty quick. It's any outfitting. uh from another source. That's the problem. Uh second on the list is irrigation over at Wickham Field. Now that the baseball
field has been renovated, uh we want to add irrigation and a point well uh to that rather than pump out of a uh mud hole, I'll call it. I don't know about um but we can do we the good thing
is with the work that was done for the ball field uh we have crystal clear water at about 5 ft so a point well work so previous years my capital request was a little more cuz I thought to be drilling a well now we could do a point well with a pump real simple uh and have
again crystal clear water um fence and gate replacement at the transfer station basically from the um the corner if you were coming from Hartwell down down into the dip and then you almost see a transition in the
fence. I want to get to that transition. Uh replace all three gates that are currently swinging gates. I want to get them to a roll style a little more um stable, if you will. Not so much stress on the hinges. We've welded hinges, you know, we've done the whole thing. But
the the middle gate we want to electrify uh so we can get in and out just at a click of a button like a garage door opener type of thing. We pull up on the roll off guy can hit the button the gates open we go in. Uh so that's something that is included in that price
of 50,000 and the last item uh on is purchase of an excavator. The last two three years we have been renting uh for 9 and 10 months. This year we it was $4,200 a month from uh
the rental company uh for the size machine we wanted and we used that machine on railroad projects, drainage projects, you know, through the course of the uh construction season. Uh
and then I think this is the last slide, but just looking out ahead again. And it's just a continuation of kind of the equipment and uh vehicle replacement. Um obviously knowing things are going to get moved around. Uh you know some of
the stuff specialized equipment uh is not cheap. Obviously like I said the first one on the list sidewalk machine 245,000. Uh I would replace that with uh currently we have two. We have a 2008 Bombardier. That's the one you see. It's
on tracks. Truly a singlepurpose piece of equipment. It moves snug. Otherwise, it sits. So, it's not much of an investment. We would get away from that to the other
machine is it's a wheeled machine, empty trackless. So, one a few years ago we we had the supplemental uh fall purchase of a boom mower for the front. We can get that. You can get blowers. You can get sweepers. You can you can use that machine year round,
>> right? So, uh why spend, you know, if we're way up in Canada someplace, yeah, we're going to need this track machine that'll tackle any kind of snowtorm, but let's get a machine that we can utilize uh year round as opposed to just sitting the corner where sitting does
them no good. Uh does threat does the bombader have any value on a resale? >> Yes. Do you have any idea? >> Somebody will come from Prescy Main, you know. >> Uh yeah,
the usually uh people will buy those um for various reasons. >> Uh gentleman I used to work with bought one of the old Chelsea machines at auction and took it to his hunting camp and that's how we drove around. Um, but a lot of if we trade it in, a lot of
times they'll uh, you know, tune it up, that type of thing, and it'll get shipped out north for resale. Okay? >> Or if we auction it off, somebody will come all the way down to buy it. >> Okay. >> Uh, replacing the the just the first couple, replacing the tree truck. Uh,
you know, our current tree truck is a 1998. Uh, obviously it's a specialized machine, but we've looked at something uh different, a smaller unit to to replace that unit in kind, I'd be talking about 450,000. I can bring that
down to a smaller chstead of a full size chassis, six wheel truck. I can bring that down to almost a what I would call like a 5500 chassis, like a F550 type of thing. Um, we looked at them, they'll do what we need to do. Uh, no reason for us to have a large
tree truck. We don't have a full-time tree crew. We do do stuff off time, but no reason to have a truck like that at this point. And then again, the rest is just some, you know, replacing trucks and parts, motors, and things. It's they start to creep up on their uh ending
useful life. With that, happy to answer any questions. >> Expect life of an excavator. Okay, that's going to be a 20 25 years. >> Um, yeah, the only other it's really a slide
without that last slide. I think it would help us just to have the year of the vehicle. You the FYI requests obviously. Sure. >> Year of vehicle that kind it really shows your age fleet >> and how how old it is because it's it's unlike any other. >> Yep. No town. Your fleet server.
>> Truck 13. It's out in the road right now. I'm sure it's a 1993 Mac. So, it's, you know, >> I know probably 15 years ago or so, I think, uh, Jimmy Clyde had put in some money and they they refurbished two of them, you know, did the frames and that
type of thing. But, you know, I think the town got their money's worth. back in your uh several slides ago where you talked about new bodies, you had basically four or five new bodies, but then you also said you don't have new bodies until you have a new building. So,
>> yeah. Um, rocking hard place, right? So, like this past summer, um, you know, we had the two summer kids and then I'm sure you know they would attest, you know, they're basically living off of a
folding table, you know, because I only have 11 lockers that are in the hallway to the bathroom off the lunchroom. So, it's not it just isn't functional, you know. Uh we again when they go
>> so the the question is more you I think you had like four bodies so you would hire those four bodies immediately even if you don't have a new facility if we gave you the money for it. >> If you gave me the money for the four bodies I will happily make it work.
>> Um and this is just probably a crazy idea but there's a lot of empty space in town hall. There's nothing that you can utilize space in town hall for for for storing for your bodies. >> Isn't it?
>> It's not ideal to be all over the place. >> If I had to do something as like a temporary measure, I'm you know, if we had to eliminate the conference room temporarily or something, which my conference room isn't very big if you've ever been in there.
you know, uh but just to make additional uh lunch space or whatever. Um then yeah, we we could figure something out. Um again, as an ideal note, would it work as a band-aid until uh a future
solution? Sure. I like Chuck Chuck has an idea with that. >> Go ahead. The triumph trailer just get a band-aid just to kind of bridge the gap trailer. >> Yeah. So something like that could work. Um, you know, uh, obviously, you know,
one of their biggest things at Triumph is a modular classroom for schools, right? Lived at a couple towns up the highway, uh, where there's modules at every school. Um, so stuff like that could work. Uh, you know, if we put
stuff at front of the back side of the building as a temporary measure. Yeah, absolutely. That's just a short short-term decision. >> We have to do that anyway. If we were if the town got approved to build a
facility, probably end up having access transitions needs an excavator. >> Very many. >> Yeah. Is there any way that what they need and what you need
can be served but by one machine. >> I mean it probably mine would be the machine that I would need would be a little big for what they need, >> right? >> Especially as you're getting in between graves and stuff. I need a machine that will be able to lift a drainage
structure. >> Yeah. uh the machine that they're getting wouldn't be able to lift what I need to safely, you know, put a sump in in a hole or things like that. So, we're off probably two or three sizes of the machine. >> Mhm.
>> Unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Steve, do they have attachment back hole attachment for the um the machines that you can put the snow plow on and the snowblower on? Um, do they have attachment for the back of wood >> on the like the sidewalk
>> like the orange sidewalk machine? The wheel sidewalk machine. No, they don't. >> I just didn't didn't think there was enough uh stability in a wheelbase. >> Yeah, that'll get a little wobbly. >> Uh, to say that there isn't,
I'm just not familiar with one because I you see them that that go on the front of Bobcats and that the gas company has them. Uh, I'm not aware of one for the front of a track list or a holder or whatever.
>> Anything else for >> Thank you. Get you in a new home. >> You say four to five acres deal. That would be ideal. I have a few pieces in mind. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Put the garage door in the side. >> Awesome. >> But I respond back. special
interests. We don't have extreme I sent an email. That's why We want sidewalks everywhere. I think that right below there still
on this side. >> Yeah. vote on everyone's responsible for their own. There will be >> the two miles that was But still in my day
when I teaching class where a lot of the time goes left. So I start the lights very nice and then like as semester went on
>> Oh yeah, you mentioned that. They're all being ready when you ready. >> All right. >> Okay. Um, thank you. Uh, thank you very much for adding this to the agenda. Um,
so what what I we would like to do is we'd like to go through and present in a a more comprehensive manner that uh for the proposed second second floor town hall space reuse
project which uh basically uh what we're doing we're proposing is to take the indiv uh the team that is that works uh that is works collaboratively down in lands and buildings which consists of board of health conservation facilities
building department planning um zoning and I think that's it right um and basically provide them with a space that a has got confident confidential space the ability for confidential space but
there's none right now they're in c it's like a it's a it's a cubicle farm um there There is also for there's no room for further expansion with interns or anything like that. There are storage
there are storage concerns uh uh with that uh in that area also. And um it's something that uh uh it's it's I believe it's it's in the best interest of everybody in down in Lancing building to
provide them with um a cohesive good working space that uh that is still very very that was that is highly functional and one that um uh is also uh
good for the uh for the public in terms of in terms of access and also it's lastly uh provides a a respectable um very very good working space uh for the team which uh they deserve. So here we have we'll just go through this outline.
So outline um the purpose of today's presentation outline the operational conditions driving the space reuse project explain the proposed layout improve service delivery and coordination discuss the scope of the work the procurement the timeline
and the approval to advance the project. Um why it's needed uh land use and regulatoratory departments operating in undersized pool and cubicle spaces. Current layout does not support privacy
for regulatory enforcement or general office work. Land use matters routinely involve multiple departments simultaneously requiring coordination that the current layout does not support. Space size layout and existing mechanical systems allow for private
offices, shared work areas, adequate storage and appropriate climate control without major structural or HBAC reconstruction. Locating these functions here improves workflow while being uh while keeping related services accessible to the
public. The space can accommodate the public facing departments that require privacy accessibility and extend customer interaction. Uh proposed space allocation. The overview reuse reuse of former second
floor library space approximately 3,000 square feet total program space which represents a 35% increase in in space to dedicated to land use functions compared to current conditions. Officer size to staffing level statutory
duties and privacy needs. shared workstations, meeting space and storage areas identified and the lay and the layout allows for growth by leveraging the corner offices adjacent to conservation and health. In addition, the open floor area near conservation
provides flexibility for expansions as needs evolve and that will be uh when we come to the uh uh uh the layout. Um the breakdown for the accounting office is
580 ft, 464 ft for the health department. Planning is 346 square ft, conservation 297 square ft, the building department 262 and facilities 127 square ft. uh shared and support spaces
breakdown in the proposed location. Uh there's 287 square feet, flexible workstations for cross department coordination, interns, consultants, and for overflow work, centralized storage areas, 152 square ft, secured file
storage to meet statutory record retention requirements and reduce duplication meeting and collaboration spaces. space is there's two of them 356 square feet shared conference rooms used for meetings, interviews, collaboration
and staff breaks. Bathroom facilities existing the ones that are there 75 square feet and public facings uh support areas included with an overall layout ADA compliant visitor counter space and public waiting areas
integrated into circulation uh space department level overview by function we have the health department uh they uh as you you all all know from the different uh meetings with all the departments Uh,
public health supports health administration, clinical services, inspections, enforcement, and direct staff staff support to the board of health. Planning and building department support the zoning administration, permitting, development, review, inspections, enforcement, and staff
support to the planning board and other land use boards. Um, estimated cost of the project is $158,000. This refle reflects primarily nonstructural improvements. partitions, lighting, electrical, fire safety, HVAC
adjustments, and painting with contingency for minor scope adjustments. The project would be advertised for bid in early spring with construction anticipated to be completed by the late summer as a cost safeguard. The bill will include at all.
So, one of the things we wanted to do, okay, well, what if anticipating potential questions? Uh, what if we just upgraded the existing AC system uh that's down in the common space? Uh, so that would uh include engineering and
design stamp mechanical plans. That's a cost of between $50 and $80,000, new or upgraded air handling equipment, duct installation, controls integration, and system balancing. Uh the key limitations uh
does does not address office layout constraints or resolve privacy and sound separation issues. Uh and staff would have to be relocated temporarily. Uh another what if um what if we just added the walls to the current location?
That estimate is approximately $50 to $60,000. Uh the current floor floor floor plate as as our as presented is already constrained. Ceiling heights, column spacing and window locations would be would be limited. The impacts of adding
the walls reduces usable workspace and overflow efficiency. Narrow circulation paths creating pinch points. Limited sheer storage and support areas eliminated. Reduces access to daylight for interior offices. Fire safety will
require additional smoke detectors. Um, and also work will require temporal relocation of staff. >> Before you move on, won't fire safety requires smoke detectors when you do the second other one as well? >> Um, yeah. Uh, yes. Uh,
>> that's not any different. But >> isn't different. It's just costing same cost. Um I I Henry would that question um the fire safety requirement that's there that's going to propose that if we
would if the raers down in the down in the first floor where you are now to put the walls to put the walls up >> these you have to go to the ceiling in order to go to the ceiling you you you have to have you have to invest in in the fire suppression system.
>> That's correct. How is that different than what you're doing when you're redoing the second floor? >> This doesn't say it's different. This is saying if you do this, you need to remember that we also will need to do this and this. >> But that's included in 158. Isn't that what you're getting at right?
>> Right. I'm saying yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you're comparing them, let's >> not compare. This isn't comparing them. >> It's listing what you need to do. >> This is listing things that you might not be thinking of when you say just throw up some walls, right? But they're not listing them on the other one. That's the problem.
>> They just did. >> They just had a whole list of all the things that are included in the estimate. Can we let them finish, please? >> Yeah. I guess the question I have that is, excuse me, relative to this is this footprint doesn't exist downstairs. I'm
just trying to think in my head the design. >> Correct. This >> why this doesn't work downstairs, I guess, was my first question. >> This doesn't work. There's not enough space. >> Okay, that's what I'm saying. It's not it's not I just can't picture it. It doesn't mirror the first floor. >> Oh my goodness. No, the structure
doesn't. >> Okay. Um All right. We'll continue. Thank you. Uh functional outcome results in a smaller wholly proportioned offices. Does not approve workflow or
add adjacency needs. Introduces long-term constraints that are difficult to undo. Uh reconfiguring the existing layout would consume square footage without adding function leaving the town with less less flexible flexible space and no
meaningful operational benefit. Uh what if we did not nothing this year? Existing space constraints remain unchanged. Privacy deficiencies for regulatory work continue. the issue returns uh in a future budget cycle
likely with higher costs and uh negative impacts with uh on workforce morale. Deferring action preserves the problem and delays necessary improvements without reducing long-term expense.
uh phase the project. Phasing at adds mobilization, administrative costs, creates repeated staff disruption, weighting issues for public, does not reduce the scope or complexity of the work. Uh so the why the the the space
that uh the team really identified and selected um existing systems or why that space uh already has existing systems already in place. closed offices without major AP HBAC reconstruction, circulation and egress, adequate
infrastructure capacity, existing public access and restrooms. Uh what that allows us to do to support a coordinated land land use review creates office spaces, integrate shared space intentionally
and limit construction scope and cost. So concept plan and layout uh here. >> So here we have um so we're going to we're going to isolate this and section it off but this is the right before you
everyone has a copy of this. Uh one thing that I would I would like to so if everyone perfect thank you. So right there that is consisting of that's approximately thousand square ft. There is that's the non-carpeted flooring and
that was put in recently. I want to say within the past few years from what I gather uh at $15,000 that would stay. That would not be part of it. Um here we have over >> sorry not be part of it as it not be part of the expense of building out. >> We're just going to keep
>> Okay. Just as Okay. >> Um thank you. I'm sorry. Um it uh what we have and here we have the health director, we have the nurse, we've got we've got facility and we have conservation in this in this area. Uh and the nurse
station there would uh uh right there in the nurses station. A sink would need to be would need to be put into that um into that location. But according to uh facilities, it's it's very easy because access to water lines is right there.
There's no building. There's no >> stairs. Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> Um and obviously uh so we have uh includes an exam room uh and then the areas for um u facilities and
conservation. So if you see in the bottom right hand corner you'll see office for interns and that's that is something that that helps with our ex the potential of expansion uh and also at the very very top you'll see another
existing storage or office. So there is another opportunity for expansion of workforce and uh right to the left of the stairs uh the conservation or develop office coordinator workstation. Uh and that's where that so that would be one
individual I believe. Is that Heidi? That be Heidi? >> No, Heidi's in front of the building commissioner on this plan. >> Okay, thank you. >> Change would be in that position right there >> next to the stairs.
>> Yep. The new Yeah, the new girl Sophia will be in hiding spot. Got it. >> Okay. Thank you. When's the anticipated start of start of the 23rd? >> Thank you. Um, and you see the stairs that are right there, the up and down for the stairs, that access on the
bottom of the stairs and the top of the of the stairs will be closed off. So, okay. Next area, please. So, here we're just going to take you give you some it along the what you just saw on the plan. Now, we're just going to run through a
couple pictures of them. They'll they uh those offices will be will be located well lit. Uh it's everything is everything is there's a lot in place. Um perfect.
Okay. Next section is is up up above the building and accounting area. Um we would maintain uh the existing carpeting that that is that is currently there. This is the entire area that there's carpet throughout.
And you can see um the building commissioner uh and off the building commissioner's office there is an existing uh uh closed area, closed in area with for conference room for staff. In front uh you you see the building
facilities workstation and the planning workstation. So, Lucia and um Sophia. Um so what we're doing is you all we also have here is the ADA counter and that you have a higher counter would be a
drop counter and um and that's where also residents can go in and uh they can access through through a computer there for if they want to look at look at a layout or anything like that. And if they have questions for anybody, anybody
in the team there, they can ask. Um, all electrical outwork. Oh, let's go through the picture. So, that's that will be the the building commissioner's office. That will be that will change the existing walls there. Uh, the
accounting offices and that's another thing I have to Michelle and her team. uh just a uh fantastic and thank you for being so you know helping out and relocating and understanding. Uh so uh
>> nobody can try this >> just a TV tray just keep moving. >> Um so what what else I'd like to be able to hit is all electrically all of the electrical outlets work and heating baseboards work. they they just do need
to have some adjustments there. Um we would in the uh in the with the um improvements here uh we would need to temporarily relocate accounting to and maybe looking at the vacant um office
space that is next to the the the town administrator suite and to include it there. So um continue. So here we have is planning uh and that's really we identified in that area is the second uh
conference room can also be used as a break room um and also the town planner and the assistant town planner. Uh and the yellow spaces in on on the on all of the the layouts
uh those are that's consists of storage areas, workstations, bathrooms, uh shared space and um and that is uh that is about it. And but we also want to and those are pictures of some of those
common areas which also includes those existing uh uh office for the interns that's over near the health director and conservation commission. Uh there is the entrance and to the entrance as you can see in the in the in the picture on the
right hand side there is a lift there and that um is is up to date with inspections by the state um inspections. Uh, and I believe it expires in July of this year. >> The use of the elevator as well,
>> correct? >> Uh, >> would the use of the elevator be available to the public as well? Be able to get it that way? >> Yes. I mean, that >> that's >> there will be exactly. So, right now that access is turned off. >> Yeah. >> For that they they can only go down the
hallway. Uh, but Eric has uh expressed to Tony that that is something that can be that can be turned on. So um but it gives you know two points of access for for the public and uh they will just the public there will just
have to understand that they will have to be walking towards the towards the middle to get uh administration help if there's any questions or direction that they needed. Um and that is um that's really basically that that's that's
basically it. And uh it's something that uh there is the funding that is available currently as a result of the culmination of of a number of different um capital improvements that there was money left over. Uh this money according
to accounting um has to go towards um towards uh fit outs or construction or you know something fitting out some something like that. It's it's eligible. What's the total square foot of this floor? >> 3,000. >> 3,000.
>> Yes, sir. >> And that's I think it's I think downstairs is 2,000. >> Maybe a little less than 2,000. >> They're the same size. >> What? >> They are not the same size. >> No, the the the whole chunk isn't there. >> The whole chunk um past the stairs.
>> It still exists. >> Yeah, but it's not being used downstairs. >> That's the difference. >> The same size. >> Well, it's but but >> there's no windows. I understand the difference, but they're the same size. It's the same building on top. There's not a different foundation.
>> So, Jim, with the desks and chairs and things like, you know, furnishings, is there going to be a need for additional purchases or is there what you have? >> The plan is what's what's being used now. We'll just move right upstairs. In the event that a department would uh
would require something or need something, they would have to go through the budget process, put it in their budget for next year for 28. >> And there's room somewhere there's room for um the the need for space to lay out plans mentioned correct multiple times. Is that >> something that's already in the budget
and already there? >> Yes, there is there is there is that adequate the space and the and the tables to uh to accommodate that. Thank you. >> Right. that that uh as you walk in that counter that stand kind of a greeters
station. >> Yes sir. >> So that has to be staffed at all times >> and there is staff around there. Uh as you could see right now it's it's looked at as the names with Lucia and Heidi are there. Um, but because of the the the
activity levels that as you are all aware and and and the work that that gets done there, there's a tremendous amount of foot traffic with with employees to be able to recognize someone needs help. >> Is there going to be something
to the sides of that counter to prevent the public from just walking around the entire >> that they have to be escorted to say the building commissioner or the the conservation agent? I mean that the wayfinding, you know, we could absolutely do that. That's more of a
concern coming off of the elevator to your point. Yeah. >> Of because here they come off the elevator, they can go right into accounting or they can go over to the planner or something like that. And we would like to be able to um a TV screen or something. But but but currently
there's a there's a there's a there's a desk currently that needs to be staffed and you can walk right around the far end of the desk in the on the on the ground floor to get to the cubes. >> I was not going through a door. >> Correct. >> Oh, is there a door? Okay.
>> Right. There was there was that >> one of you on that end. um the 158 a number of different sources. Can you kind of just shine some light on where's it coming from? >> Um when was that? Um I don't remember exactly when it was repurposed,
>> but there was a number of old capital articles that were combined into one um as we had done in the past um a few times. we had spent in that >> and and yeah unspent um balances and capital articles and repurposed it might
have been in February 23 months. >> But are you asking how did we come up with the cost or or did we design to the to the amount of money we had? >> I think it was goal money in the where you pulling the money from no this is it. >> So you you basically said we have this much to spend
>> correct >> plus what a 10% contingency or 20% contingency. Oh, I don't think there's that much. Guys, can you shed some light on any type of a soft contingency 5% anything like that? >> I wouldn't I would say more than 5%.
>> You reference there's contingency bill. >> Yes. Yes. >> Right. That's why the the the deduct the alternate adults and the deduct. >> So with all the adults
that would bring it up to 158. I don't we don't know it's going to go up. >> Yeah, this is Thank you for this. This actually helps me visualize for sure. >> Tony did a great job. >> I think it's
um we needed something like this obviously because when the town spoke um I think we realized at a minimum we're going to you're going to be in that building for 5 years. >> Correct. And um I think this judging by everybody being in here meets
your needs. You're part you were all part of this. So I really appreciate you putting this forward. Um I guess what happens to the first floor? We we have no plans yet. Got to keep the thrift store out of there. They're going to be knocking at the door. >> Yeah.
That's that's >> um no there uh there's conversations you know does is it is it accessible for any program with parks and wreck with that they have that they would you that >> because they don't have the room that's
down at 36 King Street. Um but it's still it's it's an open conversation. >> Yeah. I I to jump on what Gary just alluded to basically is I think since we are going to be in that building there
needs to be some type of plan of what we're going to do. >> A fiveyear plan, >> right? >> Probably more than just a fiveyear plan. What's the ultimate goal for town hall? >> Yeah. >> And how long is it going to take to get to that goal and what do we do in this building? Because now we have the first floor of the library that's unused. It's
going to be unused >> because you can't have anybody there. in the summertime because the AC unit's gone, right? >> The whole school side of of that the building is vacant and it has a
storage issue. So, we can't use that. So, what are we doing? What's the ultimate plan? I I mean, it's it's nice. We have the the article money. This corrects a bad situation that we have now. We should
never, my opinion, we should never have moved down to that uh floor until there was a plan. But that's water under the bridge. But to do this is a temporary fix. I mean,
>> it is there is still what happens when the next AC unit breaks in at Tempo. It's an old building. Things are going to break, >> right? >> So, what do we do? We just keep throwing this patchwork muddy. I mean, one way of looking at it is, let's say this lasts five years, that's $10 a square foot per
year. So, compare that to any buildout of a new building or construction. It's cheap, right? >> I don't have a problem. >> Yeah. No, no. I'm saying like I I think that like >> it's the larger issue. >> I I hear you, but I'm saying like and yeah, this might be temporary, but it's a pretty cheap solution at the price.
and >> we have talked a lot about like what's the plan for town hall for the last five to 10 years. I haven't seen any coherent strategy for f figuring out what we do. We've talked about uh 550 King Street
and building new town hall. We've talked we've we looked around town for a new new space. Nothing really suited our needs. What I mean what do we do? >> Well, reframe Steve's question another way. What happens if we spend this 160,000 in the AC breaks? Are we going
to move to somewhere else in town hall? Are we going to fix the AC? >> We're going to fix the AC. >> Fix the AC. >> So I >> But this is a home for five. We we're saying this this is the home. So whether and yes, we need we've tried, you know, there was a there was an article that
was put forward and that didn't work. Okay. So that we're we're put in this situation. This will be the building. And to your point, what's next? Well, what's next is okay, how can we make this work in the near term, which this is part of that, but then there's a
bigger picture. What is the cost? Because it sounds like the majority of people in Littleton, at least at that meeting, wanted town hall to stay on that footprint somewhere. So, what does that cost look like to either fully gut
and renovate, keep the people talk about the brick facade, keeping that look, and what's that cost? how many millions of dollars or knock down and rebuild a new town hall with parking and and all the other things. And so I think that >> that's the bigger plan that you're
saying what's the plan? >> We have to get into that conversation. We just >> do do you take the school side of that building and knock it out? There's your extra pocket. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What do you do? >> Yeah. I mean, but >> DPW next use DPW Town Hall.
>> There you go. But this is um >> here's the confidential. >> This helps you with a pretty good group of this. We still have obviously other spaces, other offices that need some work and that this to me is a phase one of a temporary plan.
>> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, I mean, we're talking Tom Clark. you had you had talked about this before >> what the rest of those offices potentially could look like and how we can facilit facilitate these spaces on the on the >> I I mean but we're also we're also
looking at the fact that to to to everybody's point is is you know what's the destination of town hall of 37 shadic street that's still an ongoing active conversation in regards to does it are we letting go the deeply
affordable senior housing Yeah, I don't see us letting letting that go. Do we purs continue to pursue that until we are at at till it's finally just no way, no how? Absolutely, positively not. Or
do we continue down that road? I it's it's it's a it's an ongoing discussion. Um it's something that I I would recommend to the select board to continue to pursue that as deeply senior affordable housing. when I was hired this is that was exactly what was
presented to me as as the vision other we're going to people are moving out new buildings rehab on some brand new construction others and that was that was the vision then I think it's a strong it's a very very good vision and
um I think we should just continue to pursue that actively >> it's a good vision and certainly is something to strive for but you're also losing the campus And hence the argument at town meeting and
>> and you know when we we talking about the vision it wasn't my vision it was an option >> okay >> very good option >> it was potentially >> right so I think the vision really stemmed from um a previous town administrator really created the vision and gave that idea it's like wow this is
a really neat idea let's talk let's dig into it and that's kind of what you walked into >> um and I think as a board I don't think we ever really sat down and said this is our vision to move town hall out of there. That was an auction and I think we're still in that phase of
you know you can't really with 550 stuff you can't even picture because nothing's happened yet. >> Yeah. >> So you know 5 years 5 years from now you might say wow that would be a perfect spot right this makes sense. Um >> the deeply affordable housing element
yes it's a need. It's always going to be a need. I think if we put units there, it's still going to be a need. So, I'm my immediate concern is the town hall employees. So, that's where I'm at. I I right now this is and this I think
solves yes part of the problem for the near future and we should continue to discuss the long-term future of town hall and get serious about rebuild redesign knock down move with those options that were discussed you know 6
months ago. I think all of us here want the best work environment for all of our employees, right? So this this guys are here so clearly it it meets this will be an improvement for your current situations. Um and we just need
to you know get there that all has to be part of whatever that vision is whatever that and this is phase one of we don't know what the rest of the vision is. Um yeah we need to we need to get together and and start discussing that. Um, but I do have some questions relative to um,
do we know what the assessed value of the town hall is? >> Yes, we did that when we were talking about um, the was it >> I think we gave it mish. >> No, I thought that it was
>> so the reason I'm asking is because of 88 compliance >> depending upon how much we put in now. I don't think 160 is >> when we hit that. going to hit the 30% threshold, >> right? But it's a 5year look back. So, what have we done in the past four years
plus the 150? You know, I don't I don't think that's going to be the tipping point, but I just got to be aware of it. >> Okay. Well, that's that. Thank you. Okay. Or what will we be doing in the next >> Right. What other improvements might we do in that whole 5year, >> right? >> But I think also your point is let's not
let perfect be the enemy of good enough. let's do this because clearly it >> solves a lot of needs. I don't think it's so much money that we need to worry about backlash, let's say, from the residents. >> I I mean, I would like to put this in
front of the disability commission because I mean, just to see that lift has been there a long time library and it worked. I don't think it's a great thing, but >> you're talking to the front door. >> Yeah, the front door. The elevator's I mean, >> yeah. >> Yeah, it's Oh, is it? I thought it was just so
>> No, that's a lift. >> So, if there's a if there's a cheap option, if you will, that ADA we can use to get rid of that lift or make it more accessible, then I that's something we might just want to look at in this design. Maybe it's the second phase of this. But I I would like to get some
ideas from them on it might be a simple fix to instead of using the lift, we could use a ramp, if you will, for small money just where it wouldn't hit the threat. We're not going to solve all the ADA compliance in this building. I know. But >> right that >> and that to your point the way where
that can happen is we have a grant from I just signed it the other day for the ADA transition and evaluation plan for so and that will be highlighted as one of the areas and that will come out of
um recommendations and uh or uh for alternative uh ADA compliance issues. So sometimes Henry can certainly speak to this >> depending on the height that you have to go up that length of that ramp is >> right slope.
>> Yeah. I think there's not enough space. >> We'll show the garage over there. I I have one question I guess for Eric is to Mark's point earlier the AC unit that controls this is that upside down
in a hallway somewhere >> that's on the roof and it's going to jump in a couple more and it might be you Eric as well. >> Yeah. Um, so all these walls are going to be built out and one of the primary
reasons we're building out walls is for privacy. >> Is that considered in the 158 that these are going to be soundproof walls? They're going to be, you know, you going to do 58 on 5/8 or >> Yes, it's all included. >> White noise ceiling tiles. It's another
white noise guy. I >> know that in my office doesn't matter how thick the walls are cuz everything goes up. You can hear everything. Um, >> you got to chime music through there for that purpose. >> I want to know these. >> We do. We actually do white noise in my office.
>> No, I just >> um actually the lift was the other the other question in my hand. So, I guess you want I'm the I'm the white noise for our office. >> I'm not going to say pink noise on that one.
>> We have three admins in that department. >> Uh, we're going down to two. building down to two. >> So, we have three desks. >> Uh, one of those workstations. >> What are we doing with the stairs that go down? >> Yeah.
>> No. Uh, oh, we're just closing them off where there's no access. >> How are we closing them off? >> Probably rope or and a sign that we're not closing it in. We're not putting >> correct structurally. No. Jane, if you needed to. tables down.
>> Ski bowl. You want skiing. >> Don't put my name on another thing. >> Park and Recre is currently on the third floor. >> Yes, sir. >> Are they staying on the third floor? >> According to that's I've had no specific discussion about that, but apparently no, you know, as of now. Yes.
>> And how are they accessing the third floor? Are they going through this or the way they're current doing it? What? What's with the coming? They're coming in this way. >> They're coming in the front door and going up this way. >> They're coming in a side door here. There's a >> Didn't even know it was there. >> Yeah, on the landing.
>> Accounting pointing it out. >> Doing that there's a a door off the landing. I didn't even know it was there. >> Is that still the plan or is they going to come? Are they going to come through? >> No, they're not going to come through. They have it signed right now so it's
clear where the um preschool people should go. They have signs. >> Are they called way way signing? >> Yeah. >> Way finding way. >> Yeah, that is that is going to be I'm sure I think Gary you said something
about it at the elevator and at that entrance outside of accounting. I would imagine we're going to do some sort of signage TVs or just to direct traffic. uh get people down to the admins, right? Maybe just something on the floor,
>> right? Red Cross red dots dots and green dots. >> Yes. >> Keep moving. >> I've had the moving sidewalk. >> If I can just Yeah. speak to the
accounting office. Um, right now I'm in the conference, the yellow conference room in the corner and >> Alicia's old office. >> Yes. >> Yes. And Ashley and Megan are in where? >> Tim and Caswell. >> Tim and Caswar. So even right now, we're
sort of disconnected, but you know, we were h happy to kind of, you know, offer up HR truly had a need for confidentiality and sound suppression and things like that. And we said regardless of if this went forward or not, we could temporarily move here.
>> Yeah. >> And then we would figure something out if we had to construct some cubicles where we are now. >> Um, >> so assuming this goes through, what are you guys going to do with the cornhole boards that you have out there right now?
>> Are you going to move any of the cubes up or is it all going to be new walls and offices? on mute. >> Okay. >> So, the workstations in front of like the building commissioner office, those aren't going to be cubes. >> We thought we'd move some of the cubes upstairs to simplify it and have that
move up cuz that has the built-in desk with them, too. So, we just thought might be a good idea. >> So, those those three workstations might will be cubes, but the rest are off. Okay. >> It'll end up being two. One, one for conservation, one in front of the building. >> Got it. >> So, there is some opportunity still on that first floor because it's not being
tampered with. a ton >> to potentially do something with limited if we needed in an emergency situation set in the summer. >> Yeah. >> And timeline
>> can we get this done or something? >> That's that's the goal. That is the goal. Um because uh we have a a an amazing chief procurement officer that whips those out that
>> and um Right. Yep. Part of the dynamic duo here. So um >> how long would the expected displacement be? >> Ask the construction people. >> Two months. >> Two months. >> The way does accounting go during >> how much vacation do you have?
>> Yeah. next to the plenty of time. Sweet old HR. >> This is the cost of doing business and I you know so this is what >> it's the it's the right thing to do >> and thank you for your support. So and I and thank you all the team for
>> your Saturday >> your patience and cooperation and and uh and help with this also. >> Thank you. >> Thank you to the fin. Are we do we want to make a motion? >> This is outside the >> Can't wait to see
the >> Do we have a motion or should I just make it >> 158? >> Okay, I'll make a motion to approve. Yeah, this wasn't on the agenda
to to vote on discussion >> vote to approve $158,000 for the uh renovation of the second floor >> old library space um as depicted in the plans.
>> Second. >> Do we have to say the funding source? Second by >> do we need to say the funding source? Um should be determined by >> we have a motion a second we'll hold on second
>> and does finance get a say on this or do they not >> the funds are in under control of the select >> so does finance have an opinion on it >> I I personally don't find with this >> you fine with Why you shaking your hand? No. Would you
say that? >> He doesn't like spending money. >> Just $1 is a dollar too much. >> I have an image. You know when they ask me to talk, do you want another interrupt? >> I don't even know what I do. >> I appreciate that. I gave him
>> We could say multiple. >> Okay. So it's um October 29th 2024 article 8 and 21523 special town meeting 8. So it's annual town meeting special.
>> Those are the two articles that they're unused funds that were >> 21523 special town meeting 8 are complete and 102924 are complete. >> So motion is discussed >> and second is amended. Thank you.
>> I Gary seconded by Matt. All those in favor I >> that's 5. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> We don't run away.
>> We will uh break lunch to talk over the Welcome back. And we have quick lunch and we're ready to talk operating budget. So I'll turn this over to finance instruction. >> It says budget summit.
>> Tony, sorry. >> So we're going to go just I we gave everybody handouts today. One of them is the budget summary and this is where we're at right now. Um Kim and I went through with no changes that we know needed to be made and our new budget
variance is the $7,752. Just go. We have this sheet here which is what the changes are. You want to look at that with the budget adjustments. This one
Can you step us through this? >> Yes. Yes. I'm going from just waiting for me to get up here. Okay. >> So, the first solid line is where we were at with the last um draft published. The first line is the health insurance changes. This is if we keep the current
plan. We're anticipating worst case scenario. We don't know what the what the the settlement is going to be for the health insurance, but we we're budgeting the higher end. Um there's a step increase with clerk that wasn't included in the initial budget.
Uh there was an adjustment to the library for some FTEEs that were off when we pulled in the projections. So that's an adjustment. Um we relooked Steve, you know, about this the CAMA for um the assessors. We relooked at her budget. She got a new quote and she
needs another 12,000 on her um software line for the camera system. So that's an adjustment there. Um we added 10,000 for town meeting for any driver's cost child care that could be potential out there.
Um in conservation um light and water has agreed to take we only had budgeted four hours of light and water weekly. They've agreed to eight. So that's uh we've gained that back into the budget. Conservation reduced a line of $540 for
subscriptions. Um he brought that to us I think after meeting with Steve realizing that he had money from somewhere else for it. Um the police department gave back 6,000 after the published budget for um an education
reimbursement for people that don't have a master's or a bachelor's. It was for undergraduate education. Um but that's not in the new CBA contract with them. So he took that out. Um we got cherry sheet revenue. Uh the increase with the
governor's proposal is $160,678. Um and as a result of the insurance, we took some pullbacks that we were trying not to do. So um they're increase in revenue um local receipts. We um they're only
contributing 500,000 to Olay next year as opposed to the 710 that was in there. Um fiscal policy adjustment. Uh we reserve some money on the side. Uh so that's 200,000 additional betterment funds we're using
of 100,000. Uh we're reducing our MCS payment by 107,000. Um we're picking up longevity of $700 um with Tim Machowski's departure. We will no longer have that in the Aqua 27 budget. And then um we had a meeting um
at Nishoba Techch and got the quote for Aqua 27 and it's actually $108,000 savings. So our super Saturday we're at $7,752. Um Chuck had asked for kind of a percentage
of where everybody's budgets were. So we've provided that and you guys can review it. I'm not going to go over that line by line, but everybody has a list of that. You're welcome. Um, we did give you a a capital plan, just
a summary of what's in the capital. Um, in addition to that, there is a free cash kelp that you all have. The free cash kelk um gives you the balances of all the stabilization accounts. Um the operating budget it's right now
will not tie out to what we just produced today for you. The cover sheet summary page um that's going to continue to change. We don't have certified cash yet. And any changes you would make today to the budget if you were going to do that would adjust that 65,000. It's
it's less than that right now. is our operating budget right now is 66,306714 million 66 sorry 66 million. Um, so if you look at that with the 102 that we're estimating for um, free cash, we're
funding all of the capital that's in front of you, the 1.3 million, um, a contribution to general state, additional contributions to OPED and MCS, which is the 732,000 matching the 1% CPC,
um, school building state, which aligns with um, the number Steve has that we're contributing with them using their capital um cap state of 590,963 will contribute to cap state and debt
exclusion state will put another 300 into that. So and that brings you the undesated fund balance which matches fiscal policy of the 7 and a half% fun. >> We're going to talk a lot more about the stabilization again
>> in capital in just a second. So, let's kind of stick to the operating budget and I guess I'll open it up to both boards about any things that they've heard through all these meetings that we've had with departments, any
adjustments that they'd like to talk about. Remember, we have $7,700 off the work list. Um so this is this going to include the um compensation plan discussion that we're cover.
>> So let's talk about something there's open items still with health insurance is still open. >> Correct. >> Uh salaries are still open. Our property insurance >> salaries are budget. It's all
>> it's all budgeted. But is the comp cost complete? >> It isn't. Well, I I just don't know if we're going to go with our current cost of living that we're that we budgeted for. There's still some work that we're looking at there for cost savings on a year where we we might have that's all.
So, I we haven't had those discussions yet. I know we still have more meetings until the next few weeks as far as um getting that compensation plan um locked in. the grid locked in, I guess, even though I know you budgeted
>> for the existing 5%. >> Mhm. Correct. >> Yeah. So, let's just There might be some cost savings there. We're not done looking yet. So, >> so depending on what happens with salaries, if it's a savings, great. If it's comes out a little bit more in the
wash, we need to come up with some cuts to to pay for that if that's the case. >> Yeah. It's not going to go to the right. >> Okay. >> The comp plan won't go to the right. So in other words, they bud they budgeted for I you call the worst case
scenario. You budgeted correctly. >> Two and a half. Two and a half. >> Two and a half and two and a half. Two >> two and a half based on step increase. Two and a half grid. Two and a half. Two and a half. >> But if people moved >> based Yes. with the uh the new
classification and how we do how we integrate that. Um that portion of this more than likely will not be done anywhere close to 100% by bank. those specifics of some of those
positions probably won't get ironed out till the November Tom meeting. So, um we're gonna have to look at that because you would be looking at a back pay I think per policy if we move move an individual based on the compet
>> we retro back to the first of the year. >> So, >> unless it's after January 1st or whatever, I think we did something. We do have something in in our policy that says but we don't make budget adjustments at the fall town meeting. So, >> right, >> we can get this done. >> Yeah.
>> To May we should >> because it's it's the situation doesn't change just because we move into the fall town meetings. >> Yeah. The budget is money. Correct. >> But >> so we still need to come up with cuts to budgets and
um Okay. It's a it's a lot of there's a lot of work. I know you >> I don't see you completing a complic. >> I don't know how we can so I don't want to. >> So then we need to >> the grid will be done. >> We need to estimate something. >> Okay. >> And work it into here and put the money
aside. >> Okay. >> Maybe. And then it's just >> Yeah, >> we have the money. We don't have to start changing budgets too much. Well, that's why I was talking about if we look at the two and a half, two and a
half, and we go two and a half and one and a half, that that would probably >> enough to cover. >> Yes. Cover any issues that we had um with the reorganization of some of these positions based on the salary study, study.
But um so the the only danger now is that salaries are in this book with two and a half two and a half >> y >> and all of a sudden we telling employees that
this may not be it. So we just need to be ready for that. >> Well, it's a danger of doing a a budget book obviously while the comp study is going on. We haven't right. I mean I and we've had years we were zero, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean so I we haven't
>> Well, last last year, remember we >> had the money in a separate budget budget and didn't really come out with it until the time was right. So >> that was for contract negotiations. >> Yeah. >> Well, we did Tom the two and a half was
not in the budget. >> You reserved it. Um and I I will absolutely that was that was my call. I mean when the class and comp when we were doing the budget to bring the balance budget it was like
okay the class and comm. We can't do both. We do one or the other. And there's still a lot of work left in the classic comp. All right. Let's just, you know, if we we do it for this year and we look at a a larger a larger approach
for FY28 to for the CL when the classic comp would start and and in terms of other savings then that that could be identified that includes pushing it off, Jim, is
we're already using >> threeyear-old salary information. Yeah. >> Trying to >> but I but I I'm I'm strongly recommending you know if we can't I I would not I would not
suggest you already brought the point up Mr. Chairman of of you know you have to be careful because of what what it it's already in there. Um it can't be on the backs of of non-union. it can't and that's exactly
what what is being discussed. I I do not agree with that. That's splintering and that that that that what that does for a number of different things with with the union that's different, right?
And we deal with non-un employees. So we have, you know, one contract is different than the other is different than the other. We look at the three, >> but they were all consistent on two and a half. Um, >> we didn't budge. >> I I think it's it's a little different, Jim, because
we are we put their salaries in at that 2 and a half, but we're also told them that we would have this competent class study to put their salaries correct on a new grid. So some people are going to go up,
some people are going to go down realistically, I would think, depending on where they are. So and what steps they they go to. >> And no one's going to lose money. >> Yes. No one's going to lose money. Mhm. >> So >> you're not going to
>> So So if the if the theory is they're not going to lose money, then why not leave it at the two and a half two and a half and and we'd have to >> because I have I there's positions that we that were classified after the salary salary study and other factors. Um we
don't solely go off just the salary study, but um where some of these positions to stay competitive, they're going to be graded up. We're going to start to fully use our our grid, right? um which was expected and where's that money going to come from? That's what
we're talking about. >> Right. Right. >> And the the original plan was to utilize the money that's in the grid itself by you know is it is it realistic to think we're giving 5% raises every single year?
>> I don't think it is. So what's now? I know we just but we put it in there. It says two and a half and two and a half. >> I did do that. I I I but it was not nefarious. It wasn't that >> absolutely positively not. Um, so I if
there's another way to find money to to reclassify, well, they've been classified, but to move these positions where they belong, where we think they're they belong, and the select board can vote on that's truly where we think these positions belong. And it cost X, where are we
going to get the money if we don't take it from >> the existing compensation plan? >> I'd have to upload the receipts. >> Yeah, that cash. I don't want to put you on the spot, Kim, but you've done a lot of >> work on this. >> I can't speak to what the intention is
with between HR and the the PAC. I don't know what their intention is. I can create whatever sheet you want to see whatever outcomes you want, but there hasn't been enough discussion about that to say where we're trying to end up. Um, but what I do know is
it will be a cost if we go with it because there the we we we're trying to stay in that higher percentile. We don't want to drop below the 50th percentile of average salaries, right, across the communities that we used. >> Um, so how far do we want to push that
so >> to the right? >> I I I hear you. So now is the time to say, "Okay, let's take how many thousands of dollars? 10, 15, $20,000 thing that's going to cover all these shifts." >> Yeah. And it probably >> put it aside.
>> Well, I'm not talk Yeah. For those that we're not talking $100,000 here, you know, these are these are position resets where they belong. Um, and it's usually a smaller amount of money for the initial year, but there's much more growth potential potential for the
employee because their their grade has changed to a higher position. So, but it usually only equates to $1,000 here, $2,000 here for the year, >> but with a lot more growth potential because they're in a new a new grade. >> So, I I'll make the the case of say we
say it's 20 grand. >> Sure. I would say and you guys would know better with this is that 40,000 that's sitting in HR for the salary adjustments or whatever >> personal funds you're talking about. >> We take that out of her budget or 20,000
of our budget. Put the other 20 aside. How many retirees are we going to have with with >> She said it's for for >> Yes. >> things outside. somebody retires and they have five weeks vacation, the department's going to cover their normal
thing, three weeks. So, it's just a two week thing that we're probably going to cover. >> How much can that be? Right. >> Yeah. That traditionally has not been completely utilized that way. >> So, if we took 20 grand out of that, put it aside, and that's your your budget
that you have to deal with, has that work for you? if we can make it work. I I would say that if it doesn't, maybe by then we find a few if it if it's it's off by a little bit or we look at the gross the positions that had the most um
gross deficiencies, if you will, or the most misaligned, we we deal with those this fiscal cycle and we deal with the ones that were really close, but we probably need to relook them and move them. We if we can't do it this year, then we push it to the next. So, can I just
>> So, if I'm hearing I'm sorry. If I'm hearing you're right, we're saying that whatever is in this book is what it's going to be. >> I don't like that. I I I I don't I just don't I think
>> in a year where we we did a comp study, um I I I think it it it's it could end up being reckless if we continue on this on this path. That's all. I you know I love >> we should get them on a a step that
makes that impact minimal. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. >> Is I'm looking for the expression on Kim's face whether this can be done or not. >> But I you know to Jim's point I mean it's >> it's been printed. It's in print. I don't know how many people sit here
going through this book right now besides us. But >> and when do you expect to bring this to town meeting? Well, it has to go come in to the annual or the special have to be on the grid. >> I know we're not going to have annuals and specials. >> Well, it doesn't have to. The grid does how what our grid's going to look like
and what people get compensated per grade, right? >> Right. >> Where people line up in there that we could theoretically wait till November because we're budgeting for in May based on what you just discussed. We'll put 20,000 aside. So, and of course, we're just going to back pay anyway. So it
puts takes a little bit of the pressure off on um going through all of those positions um that are going to potentially change a little bit um and puts all the emphasis on the grid itself making sure >> I think coming up with the grid itself
is like 99% of the job >> it is >> and then fitting people in is >> but whether that can all be slammed that part second part can be put in by May time well we say May March 15th right >> that's exactly it that's That's the the rub there. So, um, our focus has to be
on the the compensation grid. >> This is something that >> here it is. Here's what we're going to use. We're taking some of the recommendations the select did presented to the select board. Here's what the study said and here here's what the personal advisory committee recommended
to Jim and Michelle. And then we we vote off of that on what we think we want the grid to look like at that point. >> So when would it be when do you when based upon that when would it be implemented? >> The the grid and the grid might stay the
same if we go with 20 in other words we stay with 24 grades. Pretty easy now to fill in to manipulate that grid to where we want it based you know on the two and a half two and a half what that's going to look like. It's it's the individuals that are going to change within that
grid. the positions themselves um not the individuals the job itself board of health you know director what if that job is deemed to be uh graded low we need to move it up a grade there's there's the effect that's going
to take place what we need to budget for >> okay >> the compensation grid you just said we've we've based it on a 24 grid I'm assuming um for next fiscal year same grid we have now just added 2 and 12% between steps. Two and a half% cola.
Done. Right. >> Right. >> The question is the recommendation from our contractor was not 24 grades. >> Right. No, it wasn't. >> Wasn't 18 grades. >> Right. >> Right. So, um I think it was 15. >> It was 12. 12 grades.
>> Right. >> Which >> we escaped 12 grades years ago. It didn't work. It was horrible. >> Six. We in 15 it didn't even work for us. So we this is the whole reason why we built the 24. So that's where if I'm
sounding like um a little skeptical on how we're going to design this, it's because they were so different than what we wanted and I I think that they utilize what a lot of the communities used that they represent or that they've >> worked with, you know, a lot of our
communities use 12 and think if if you hooked up with Kim. >> Yeah. No, we're definitely going >> she's done a lot of work on this. of that transition. Yeah, >> she's already done. >> Okay. >> But do you want to talk about
combining the grades like the the current grid that they used to to judge all the positions needs a lot of work. >> In speaking with uh Michelle and human resources, >> she's not confident on the points that were awarded, >> right?
>> Um based on our own internal organizational structure. Um, so she thinks that there's more work that needs to be done to solidify the points in order to figure out your point spreads and where they should fall within the grid. >> But you've highlighted those positions. >> I have a dynamic sheet that is able to
look at things in a in many different >> isolated positions and gave them to the personnel that we bought and they reviewed those positions based on the new way they're going to allow points. >> Well, the thing is >> you regrated those. The bill likes to do
that. There is and we're going to do it. It's the discrepancies that I'll give just a for instance a director and an assistant director. They came back with the assistant director one of the things you get graded on creates your grade is
complexity of your job. Well, how did the assistant director's complexity? Why is it higher than the director that's currently? Things like that that are off and those things have to be corrected. We can't go forward without it. Now, um can we fix it between now and May? That's the issue. or Mar March 15th.
That's the issue. Um or can we discuss budgeting it like you just came up with an idea at least to have it >> Sure. If we can get it done by >> um by March, great. I don't think we have to have every one of these positions
that are going to change um in there by March 15. We have to have the grid done because there's nothing. We don't have to go to town meeting to move disposition to a higher grade. That's >> we don't that's not a town meeting
thing. >> Correct. >> But if you vote a grid, >> you vote a grid that's effective July 1st. >> Yeah. >> Then you should be paying the employees that salary on July. >> And we'll have to back pay those employees that we do change that we weren't able to do that with. Nobody
knows what those are yet. We have an idea of a list of deficiencies that um you know, and some are really close. Many are like you had said they might be overdated. We haven't we haven't discussed and historically the select
board has never voted to take money away from a current employee because they they were deemed from a comm study to be making too much money. I mean that >> and I don't plan I don't think that's something >> that's not that's all. So, >> okay. >> Just just so to to to Sorry, I acup
to stop that. >> If you're not progressing enough, then maybe the best idea is to hold off in May with this new grid. Just keep them on the current grid with their two and a half and their step. And you really don't have to go back to town meeting
because it's the same. Well, you do because the two >> you would have to because >> to the two and a half. Yeah. >> Well, or if he shifts a position, you have to I was saying you're keeping everything the way it is, the way the book has it. Basically, you vote that grid and then
in November you go back and put in your new grid and if you need to retrof my my opinion is that we're going to stay with the larger grid. >> I think there was a reason we did that to keep get rid of this compression. So
knowing that when we vote and we get maybe I'm wrong when we vote at at town meeting we're voting on that compensation grid. I'm not voting that um this job is a 12 versus a 13.
>> But those are all listed. >> But they don't have to be listed. That's not part of we we just decided to put those jobs all in there. But if we're going through a cost study >> Yeah. And I know what you're talking about. underneath the grid is all the jobs the town has and what great they are, >> right? >> We for years we didn't do that. We
started doing that. I I don't know if other under Anthony >> and and by the by the end of the year it was a it didn't even make sense because we had moved people around so much in positions from comp studies and other things that why are we doing it? And I I get why we're doing it because we want
people to see visually, but >> right >> it it when we're in a comp study year, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense because it's not going to be accurate. >> Okay. So, can I ask my question >> almost? So, there's two different things for the grid. One is are you talking
like just pick on the health director. Are you saying that they're currently an eight and should be a 10, right? and you're moving individual positions or are you saying step one is too low? Right? Because that's what a comp study should tell you and you should say step one should be moved up.
>> It never% a com study will never tell us to move somebody in in um steps. It's only works in grades, right? So we no but asking about >> so if you say that the range for an admin is step one starts at 20,000 and
it goes to 40 and you say 20 is too low. We saying oh well then we're moving them down from grade two to grade four and now all we have is compress the grid anyway because all these lower grades are never used. Or you're just saying we're moving step one is now
>> 40,000 rather than 20,000. Yes. Because because if you're doing that that affects every employee if you make step one go up two and a half more than 2 and a half%. >> That's why when you settle on the on the grid itself, right? >> Make those adjustments based on the
salary data that came in. Then you take the current employee and say okay where do they what step do they fit on this grade? Because the grade is based on your job description. >> Yes. >> But what I'm saying if you're doing that right, that's going to affect every
employee and $20,000 doesn't seem like enough. >> But it's budget here, >> right? We budget for 2 and a.5% cola increase for everyone in town. >> And if you're stepping, >> and everybody does unless you're not successful, >> you're stepping another two and a half. >> But you said you're going out and
comparing salaries to every other town and you're making sure you're in the 50%. So, if every other town over the past 3 years or 5 years since they did the last study gave higher raises, then you're off. Everything's low. You have to move everything. You can't just say,
um, we're going to say, "Oh, this position should go down a great." >> I know Kim has made the adjustment to the salary data and she upped it by a percentage each year to bring it into the current year. So she's correct me if I'm wrong. You're looking at what you
consider the current salary for those grades. >> Yeah. When we went out and we got the salary study from >> and I hate just using the salary study because there's there's internal equity too that we have to weigh into this as well. But and and all communities are a little bit different. What a health
director does in Littleton might be very different than what a health director. So >> that has to be ironed out too. But the the issue is we're we're agreeing to a compensation grid. If we stick with the 24, this is pretty easy for us in that
regard. We're just moving everything. The cost of living is 2 and a half%. >> Done. Our our grid our steps are already what they are. We don't have to tinker with that. >> So I say that we're comparing to other towns and if we're giving two and a half and they're giving three, then we are
now behind and we're not going to be up to the average. and you're going to have to all of a sudden move everyone. >> Well, I I use 50% as an example. We're not going to be 50. We're going to be probably 75th percentile. >> Okay. So, if if you know, pick another town and they gave 3% for the past 5
years and we gave two and a half, we're now down and it's more than your your $20,000 to move every employee. >> Gary, you're saying that that the two and a half and the salary adjustments are going to be enough to cover that. Well, that's already that's already um counted for.
>> It's already baked into the >> We baked it into the budget. Has nothing to do with >> No, no, we didn't. We baked two and a half% into the budget. >> Yes, >> that's a step. But if you're trying to get everyone into comparables to something else, you don't know that 2 and 12% was enough. That's my point.
>> But it doesn't go against one town. It goes against the average. Right. >> Right. >> But still was that easy. >> It's not that easy. But same question like is two and a half% enough in that case. >> That's why the 20,000 is there to make up. >> I don't think 20,000 is enough. If everyone if you decide
>> everyone's going up by four and we have to go up by four on everything, 20,000 isn't nearly going to be enough. >> But you'd be surprised. So when we move a grade, if you looked at at our grid, >> I'm not talking. I'm talking about shifting everything to the right, >> which we're doing
by 2 and 12%. But if everyone else shifted by 3% and you're trying to stay at the average mean, whatever percentage you want to stay at, you're behind and now you have to shift more than 2 and a half%. >> Well, I'm not looking at everybody else like that. >> But you just said you were you said you were said you wanted to be at the 75%
range. >> So >> this is 75% of that differential he's trying to capture. So that's what it does. >> So you all these light communities that we've that we did the salary study with um we have me we have means median. We we know
>> what the average is. Now >> with that we go in and look at the job. Is it truly >> one for one? >> A one for one. Yes. A close enough mirror of what our job is in Littleton. >> Okay. Now that part makes sense. And then we look at, you know, the equity
within our own town. Does it make sense to bump this person, let's use a department head, from a 16 to a 19, grade 19, because they're way underserved. um or is that going to cause a whole another effect that we have to tell we don't want? So, we have to review it that way, too.
>> Again, Mark's not talking about moving a p a job from grade to grade. He's talking about where what is step one for each grade start at. And are you saying 2 and 12% is >> more than it is now? >> 2 and a half% is enough and we're not going to increase it more than two. Correct.
>> Okay. That's what Gary's saying. So every single grade, every single step will be two and a half% that is now >> and that will be the whole thing is shift and it's not going to increase above that. >> Correct. >> Okay. That's what that's what >> that's what we're disc that's what's
been budgeted for >> all. That's not Yeah. Okay. >> That's what Gary's saying is they're not >> So what we're saying is we're looking at individual positions and making sure they're on the right spot. >> Right. And that's what the comp study is for. Are we underserving certain jobs in our town or they become so much more
competitive in now you know that are harder to get. >> So I understand Mark you pay you were talking about the grid and Gary was talking about the positions within the grid. >> Yeah. which is right because the grid is believe it or not if we don't change a grid on any given year it just changed what are we going to give people for
colona >> now we've already baked in so and that we just happen to do it in the budget but before normally we would discuss that a little bit and say we can only afford 1% this year plus we'll keep the two and a half% steps so you're getting a three and a half% raise this year as
opposed to the five and we'd have that's how we could manipulate um our budget to make sure that we weren't going after fire people or let lay people off, things like that. That's the responsible thing to do. That's why I think we've got to look in the future just to have those discussions,
you know, to make sure that we're not showing right out front that we're giving 5%. We don't I don't want to know that yet. We don't know that yet. We don't till we get out of this meeting, we don't know if we're upside down or not. So, we have we want to have that as another tool to be able to get us under the budget. All right, we're all
comfortable. Um So, so we're not laboring this too long. >> Too late. >> I know. Can we Can we >> It's a huge deal. >> Say to the personnel advisory committee. >> Yeah. >> To start the process, start to look, sit
down with Kim, see what she's >> Yeah, I talked to Michelle yesterday >> and get as far along as we can and then we make the determination whether we can make May or not. And then if we can't, we'll have that $20,000 piece. >> Yeah.
>> And as long as we can all agree that in November we may have budget adjustments, which is kind of what we don't want to do. But we've already reserved the money, then I say we just move forward with that. >> I will let you know that's enough.
>> We're not talking about a whole lot of people here. We're talking about a handful of people that would be potentially affected by this. So, it's not the vast majority by any means. Um, but I I think today what we can vote on if we're going to vote on the the 2 and
12% cola, then that's what we do and we're going to if we want to keep that's what's baked in. Everybody's comfortable with 5%. >> Well, I see I don't think if if you're talking about a new grid, you're not talking about two and a half off of what? Right. It doesn't exist. The old
grid doesn't exist anymore. You're not making the new grid off the old grid. You're coming up with new steps and and grades based on the salary data that you have. So you can't say I want two and a half%. >> It's whatever the grid says is what it
is. Period. And we're starting fresh. >> How often do we do classic comp studies? >> Three to five years. So, this seems to me like a >> a calendar that's not >> going to work for us in the future. We can't
>> we can't say no to 99.9% of our needs for November by saying we don't make budget adjustments except every 3 to 5 years because, you know, the cyclical thing that we know is coming isn't done yet. So, and I'm not trying to like slam
anybody, but I'm just saying like we need to fix that going forward. That can't be how we do this. >> This is the first cycle, I think, of even having a personal advisory committee. I think before this, we didn't have one. We had personnel board. Yeah. >> We got this assembled. But
>> so, >> it's just something for for you all to consider. I think what what the big change is here is they changed they used their own classification study their own >> ratings >> rating system completely different than ours. They're all kind of alike but
different their own scoring system and they put us on a 12th grade. >> So to unwind that what they did takes time and work to see how will this a do we agree with a 12 grade system? Okay, we all agree we don't. Can we do it in
an 18? We had discussions possibly. Or would we just want to keep it 24 this year and maybe look at the following year to change if we if we really want to. So, >> and that's what I'm wondering. And why aren't we just putting this off by a year? >> Uh I think somebody brought up the point
that you fall a year behind now in >> every three to five years and we did it three years ago. We're still on track. >> We'll do it four years instead of five. So the the personnel advisory committee has made the determination that we are definitely going to their system and scrapping the system the grading system
now that we're currently using because you can take their data their salary data >> correct >> and just overlap it over our jobs today >> right so the discussion now is I mean we're talking about has devoted no so a
lot of this data is new we're still trying to work the stuff behind the scenes to find out what's going to work so we can have recommendations. >> So, if you if you're sitting there talking about um using their system, um I think we're growing more
comfortable that we could probably Yes. Let's let's migrate to their system, their scoring system. That way, we're not tearing apart every single position >> to regrate it in our in our system. So last time we did this, we ended up with no employees that were step 10 after we
put out a new >> Yeah. >> Copy. That's not going to be true this time because we're only moving the employees that were on the wrong grade. Any anyone that's a grade 10 plus or 10 now is going to stay at grade 10 unless their jobs are classified.
>> The grade is shifted. >> But we're not shifting. We just said we're not shifting anything. Only an employee would move from a grade nine to a grade 10. And the grid itself has to shift because the salary data is different. >> Oh, we're not doing that. We're only It's only shifting 2 and a half%.
>> Yes, it is. That's what you just said. Grade 10 is still grade 10 step one went up 2 and a half%. It didn't go up more than that. >> A 10. >> A 10 is still a 10 and it can only go up two and a half%. >> Not on the news yet.
>> Is this true? Maybe I think that the creative discussion the salary data that seriously >> like is this is this discussion at this point germ your main what we're doing here today I mean I know there's a lot of like people >> no no but we're getting way into the weeds of how the common class is working
what >> what are we describing what are we asking here because this has gone on for a long time >> what are we chasing >> I would I would say that we I mean I would like to have more than $20,000 in So you get up to 40 in that age.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. So then by in November it gives us time to we had already figured if we had to do this if we had to get it done this year and we'd have to back in July. We were already thinking that way >> because it was just too much of a change
in this comp study that they did not using our grading system. Um, so we just wanted to make sure that we could have a decision made on what do we want to use for our grid that's in
the book for May town meeting. And if it's is it going to be 24 grades with with these the new steps, fine. But there's a lot of work that has to go on to put the people in there correctly
because we're using a new tool that you add everything up and it gives a person a number. All right. Where does that fall in the grade in a grade? Right. Well, we don't know because we haven't used their tool to do that yet. >> So, Gary, may I may I Okay, so November has been has been has been has been
discussed. So, can you actually go into November taking a temperature check of where you are with all the stuff that has to be done for the November town meeting? Take a temperature check and then can you do a vote that day for it to at the at the November town meeting
or October to commence July 1st of 27 and there's nothing retro. But >> it would be retro though, >> but >> Oh, I see. You're saying don't pay the rent >> because but because for this next year it's it's it's two and a half two and a half. So
>> it is >> it's and >> it's two and a half two and a half for staff person. It's two and a half three for a man. >> It's 5%. >> Those add up. So
>> okay. So we just for right now for this discussion we need either 20,000 or 40,000. We need to make a decision on that. That's only for today. Oh, zero, >> right? Born or somewhere. >> Don't punt it until the next until next year. >> Yeah. >> You know, I >> we can allocate the money in case
>> Sure. >> they do get it in by >> So, you're saying you go with the grid that we have. We just go with the normal cola that Jim has baked in, >> right? And then I mean I would like I personally I think we owe it to the the individuals that if during the year when
we start to get we slot these positions where where they belong and we and select board decides yes that makes sense and we vote to put them there. I'd like to be able to do that during the year. off off of what if it get I I I
think it gets messy if you're voting a new grid in May and you're not paying the employees off of that grid and you can't you can't make an adjustment later on in the year to a grid that doesn't exist if you're voting
the current grid with a 2 and a half%. So I I think personally I think the personnel advisory committee needs to make every effort to kind of come to a conclusion by May 15th which >> whatever
>> which can I say is a lot of work on our part because we have a warrant coming up. We have a draft budget to get out. So >> then it probably makes sense to >> pump this till next year. How about um what do we have to vote on
today for this? Can we we could vote on the entire budget today, right? Except the comp grid because it's already baked in. We could always vote on it a month from now. Just that part if we found out, you
know what, we got it done. >> Okay. >> Is that is that a possibility? >> What kind of hearing is that it's not going to get done? >> It's not. But if you want to leave that out there just in case. >> All right. >> That's >> And you don't vote this today any that when it's in the water. >> Right. >> Right. >> That's true.
>> We might I'd like to see where we where we're at. >> Can you Can you get it done right now? >> Yeah. >> Tomorrow night start at 6:30 tomorrow night. >> Yeah. >> All right. So salaries still up in the air. That's what we're doing. Did
anybody else hear anything in any of the questions? I >> promise not to take as much time as the previous. Okay. Um, under the additional use of betterment funds. >> Yes. >> What is the total betterments that
you've got plugged in? >> 840 is the total use. 840 is the >> 840 including the 100. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. and and you're comfortable with that? >> We have that balance. We couldn't vote that if we didn't have that balance the
line above it, what we would put into reserves uh via the financial policy. Did you pull it out of specific items or just say we have 200 less? >> Last year it was 300. So we just brought it down to the same level that it was at
last year. >> I'm sorry. >> It's just one line and last year it was 300. So we just brought it down to that same range. >> Thank you. And Steve, you had a list of things that were un before we got onto that fun little tangent. It was health insurance, salaries, and was there other things
that were still up there? >> Property >> property liability. We don't I mean I I think we're fine. We've taken a look at what we've got budgeted. I think we're I don't think that >> Is there anything else that you guys can think of that still up in the air?
>> This is all operational at this time. Anybody find us? Are we okay in the operating budget? >> What could what could really just sideswipe us between now and anything in this that's not like you don't feel 99%
locked on? >> No. No. Because we budget the high on the health insurance. We said worst case scenario it's a 14.4 on the current plan. So even if they don't come to an agreement with the PEC, the worst case scenario is 14.4. >> Okay. Did we budget for did we budget 19
>> for the out years? >> Not going forward, not this year. >> So um I have a question about the reduction of local receipts. >> Uh local receipts are very important to our fiscal policies and generating free
cash. Mhm. >> Do you feel that that's a little dangerous or >> No, you that's okay. It's only It's a small percentage. >> It's a small percentage of what we take in for local receipts. Yes. >> It's a It's kind of a dangerous present. >> It's certainly not ideal. Let me put it that way. If we had another $100,000,
that's the first thing that I would put back if we had that. >> Correct. Because it's a free cash generator. >> Gets me more than that local receipt number is going to the governor's cherry sheet number. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you know how that changes. >> But we did that last year as well. We use the governor's proposal to balance
and we did look at we went back what three four years and looked and >> it's always been at least the governor's proposal. >> It's usually 50 to $150,000 more when you get to your actual charity to the final. >> So we do that.
>> So everybody good operating budget was full questions. No complaints, anything. >> All the work's been done. >> You guys did a good job. >> Thank you, Jim. And >> I know it wasn't a great year. The insurance was a good job.
>> Thank you guys. >> Okay. So, we're not doing a operational override. That's step one. >> And based on all the bodies that we heard and >> Right. Yeah. >> Let's talk about that another time. >> Yeah, please.
We looked around the room at Nshobate Tech uh at the meeting we had for the budget uh over at Nshobate Tech at the finance meetings and all the other talents were like they had an override they had an operational ride layoffs they had was
>> everyone pretty Mark say there were there were 100 municipalities going for overrides this year >> operation over tells you something's wrong the system. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah, we doing capital.
>> Yeah, we can do capital. So, Robin, you want to say anything about free cash before we get started? >> Um, we So, the free cash right now, we're starting at a 102 number. We still don't have that locked in. Um we have a meeting next week either Wednesday or
Thursday with uh the Division of Local Services to make sure um she they're just about ready to issue but we want to run over some things with them before they issue. Um so that 102 is the safe number for us right now. Um we're meeting all our capital needs. We're still contributing to the general
stabilization of the 100. Um we're still making extra contributions right now. >> We're going to get into all that. So >> Oh, so I don't have to. >> Nope. So then >> just the level of precash the assumption that's >> that's it. >> Take here there's a lot of slides but I
promise they'll go quickly. We're using this to estimate the the reserves in the capital and showing how we can fund the capital plan that's been submitted. So the stuff that that we're showing here and the funding that we're doing
doesn't mean that we're that finance committee or myself or anybody is saying that's what we should be doing as far as funding stuff. It's just to illustrate that what was submitted can or cannot be funded and how we're going to fund it moving forward.
>> Okay, does that make sense? Am I explaining that right? >> I'm not endorsing the capital plan. I'm just showing that >> it's feasible. It's feasible. >> But I guess the question is when if that number changes, your conservative number, if that changes as a group, is
there were there things that did not get funded capital wise that we would say, >> well, let's >> let's let's plug it in >> go through here >> or just >> go there. Okay. So, go back one, please. So for our new
members, there are four ways that we have reserves in town that affect capital free cash, cap stave, a debt exclusion stabilization, and school building stabilization fund. And those are basically town reserves outside of the
general stabilization account that we have. That's for basically emergency purposes. Our capital plan that was submitted for this year was 34.2 2 million. Last year was $33.8 million. On that slide is $2.8
million of new things that hit the 10-year capital plan. Um, biggest that I can see on that is an ambulance for 606 out in FY35 was added.
That's the biggest one. And over to the right is kind of a a recon going from last year's to this year's. So, there are some items that were removed from last year's capital plan that never showed up this year. There are some
items that we changed or updated. Um, and then of course the new items for 36 and so Robin and Kim went through the entire capital plan and put a funding source to
it. So, Out of the 10-year plan, free cash is going to fund 8.7 million of the capital. We have CPC, some grant funding, borrowing funds, capstate, our ambulance funds.
Then we looked at which projects that there would need debt to cover them. We have the school roofs under the MSBA, school choice funds for the school projects. Now, our agreement with the school department ends this year.
Basically, we came to a two-year agreement. We need to sit down again with Justin and see if we can continue that. For this purposes, I kept it going with the school choice numbers. Um, and then we have other which was the
15,000 that we already talked about. Okay, we talked about free cash. If you know me by now, it's conservative estimates that we have. We went back and we looked at how much free cash we were able to
generate over the past four years and it was 6.4 million. The lowest amount was 4 and a half and that's the number we assume going forward is that lowest number four and a half very conservative. Moving forward we reduce
that down to 4 million in the later years. So you would think, okay, our budget's increasing. There's more of an opportunity for free cash to grow. We're actually taking it down. So that's even more conservative. Okay. And as the
budget grows, more free cash. On the next slide, graphically, the blue line going up the top increasing is the amount of reserves that we need to keep. That's 7 and a half% of an increasing operating budget.
And the red line is what we're spending from free cash each year. And so it's always going to be less than what we bring in. And it goes down because part of the new free cash that we get has to go to that reserve. Make sense to
everybody? So this is ultraconservative. I think in my mind the only piece of it that we can say that may not be happening is the level of the increase in the operating budget. Based on some of the information that we have and
we've heard from the bodies and stuff, I think I have a 5% increase in the operating budget each year. >> That would change these these assumptions. Okay. >> You're saying you baked in a 5% >> 5% >> in the operating
>> operating budget increase. So the level of savings is 7 and a half% of that number. Right. >> So if the budget goes up then we need to save more. Okay. This is the assumption for free cash.
And if we go to the next one, Tony, I'll break it down and I'll highlight the stuff. Previous year's ending balance is the beginning balance for the year. And then we have our estimate for additional free cash. Now, in FY28,
you see 5 a.5 million sitting there. They said, Steve, you just said 4 and a.5 million. There could be an adjustment that happens in next year where we receive a little bit more in free cash because of what is being impacted for this year.
Um so there's a little five and a half there's an extra million dollars that's sitting here basically there's a possibility that that 5.5 million could go up next year also. So this is a conservative estimate on what
that additional number would be. Okay. Next. So see our new free cash generated and the uses in that bottom line the uses are always less than the new free cash as I just explained because we have to
reserve the 7 and a half%. Next one is a stabilization per policy. It's $100,000 per year. Last year we estimated 100,000. This year it is 100,000. So we're no change there. We need a warrant article for general
stabilization deposit. Debt exclusion stabilization coming out of free cash. This this is for our existing excluded debt. So it's the middle school Russell Street and the police station. That debt's winding down. It'll be totally gone from
payments in FY31. As you can see, we stopped contributing to that part in FY29. So, the town is actually covering 100% of that debt service in 30 and 31. So, there's no impact to the taxpayer at
that point in time. This has been locked in for a number of years. So, we estimated 300 last year. It's 300 again this year. That's another warrant article that we'll need for debt exclusion stabilization. Next one. capital and capital
stabilization. These are deposits to the capital stabilization fund and capital spending. The capital spending comes from that chart we had a few slides ago where they put the sources of capital. So this is everything that been
identified over the 10 years as being paid for by free cash and it's coming out of free cash and we'll and just expended. The next one is the remaining dollars coming out of the
capital stabil going into the capital stabilization account if I could. So that's one more warrant article we need for cap state. If after Robin and Kim and Jim meet with the
state and get the free cash certified for this year, if it comes in that more than 102, I would like to just make the suggestion that we put it into cap state. So, if it comes in a 103 or 105, that extra money we deposit into capital
stabilization account, I'll show you why when we get to that account, but it's important that we start funding that that account as much as we can. Okay? And we kind of all in agreement with that >> and once we get to CAP state, if there's
any comments on that, we should talk about it. Next one is the school building stabilization fund. This deposits into that fund. You see in the bottom of the screen FY26, our estimate 427 was 1.4 million.
We're actually putting a little over 2 million in it. The reason why we're doing that will be a little bit more clear when we get to this shaker link because a little less than the shaker lean tax impact when we get to it. Um
but before we had that little adjustment to free cash for this year um this was the number that we had available to spend and it just made more sense once and we'll see that when we get to shake a light. So it's a little bit more than what we estimated for last year. The
million3 still stays the same. I've said this a 100 times. It's important for us to get as much into that account before we place the bond because that's going to have the bigger impact to the taxpayer um to bring that number down
before we issue. Um as far as as the the school goes and we can talk about this a little bit more later on, but the GEC was selected. We have don't have a contract just yet. And Jim, you were
involved in that. Um my understanding is that they're shifting the construction time. >> Correct. They're increett getting more aggressive by a year. >> A year which means we need to start funding things a little bit more aggressively if we want to
bring that bond down as much as we can. That's another reason why I'm advocating for the 2 million going in. Um, >> we'll talk about the debt. >> The target date at this point. >> Well, they're gonna I mean, it's going to start it's going to start in this
calendar year in in instead of like by next calendar year. >> Okay. Thank you. >> What's the usage timeline for that money? >> Pardon? >> What's the usage timeline with with this money that >> it would it would be beneficial? When when does it not become beneficial to
us? At what point? when we ran out of town meetings to put the money in. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Which which will be a year earlier. Yeah. Because of this. >> So 29 instead of 30. I think originally it was 30, right? That we thought that >> and and Robin and and Kim will have to
figure out the best time based on the construction schedule and >> when the project closed out to actually place it. I mean, it could be that we rolled those bands >> another six months or another year >> to give us another year of runway on the space stabilization,
>> which is probably the best thing to do. But >> cuz that'll make us money in the long run. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. John, exclusion stabilization. So this is once we start putting the money into school building
stabilization, shifting it into the debt exclusion. So this is paying a town a portion from the town um to alleviate the tax burden on on the taxpayer moving forward. um there's a big chunk that goes in
upfront and that's the really the only way that we can make those payments and reducing that tax rate effective because you pay a year and the future and you need a big chunk of money up front to do this. Um so that's we estimated 1.8 for
those two things. It should say for FY29 it says FY27. Um but it hasn't changed. Those estimates are still the same. 500,000 going in for the DPW building. Um, we put that in last year. It's still
there. We heard the need again. I don't know what we can do to get that process going. Um, >> I mean, you could take less. You You could not be as aggressive on this particular lane.
>> We've already got the >> No, he's he's saying how do we get this thing done? >> How do we get the project? >> Oh, I know that. I'm saying >> I mean by by putting more money this we have 500,000 going in and in that point why not why not a million is that any any additional funding that you get when
we get to cap state we can look at it but you could start shifting a little bit more into >> that's what I was going yeah >> but at this point in time when's construction going to happen on that it's probably pushed out from when I
have the debt going in So for free cash that that's about all the spending in free cash and we're able to maintain the 7 and a half% in that bottom line for all the years and based on those estimates
we're good with free cash. Now let's start talking about caps data. Go to the next one the starting balance again Tony the next. Yep. Starting balance is the ending balance for the year.
Deposits we just talked about coming from free cash going into this account. Go to the next one. So this is the withdrawals from cap state. It's the same as last year except
for in FY30 because of the balance in cap increased a little. we're able to shift that fire engine that's half by 30 to caps and pay
cash instead of debt. So that's that's good this year even with conservative estimates. So I would rather I would much rather speaking conservative estimates be able to push things in and take them from debt to
push it into pay cash than say whoops we screwed up cash and now we have to place debt on it. So, I'm pretty comfortable based on what we know today that we'll be able to pay cash for that engine if
we support that engine. The school roots that happens in 28, 29, and 30. From what we heard from Steve, that's probably going to be pushed out a whole year. 29 303 31 or 29
31 33 because it's every two years. So we may have a little bit more freedom with cap. The danger of course is if one of those roofs gives before we get the funding >> or if you don't get the funding because
they don't approve it >> or if we don't get so this for those roofs this is 60% because we're assuming that MSBA is covering 40 So to the extent that we have to cover this ourselves, we probably would need to borrow the 40
unless there's a big time frame between the two and we feel comfortable be able to re generate free cash and put it into this account to cover that stuff, especially since it's every two years.
So that's still kind of up in the air. Next slide is the debt service bans. And we'll get to the debt in just a minute, but if we issue a ban to something, right now we're able to fund it the debt service payments out of cap state. So I
think this is either the dog bark or fake bark. I think it may be the dog bark. Um it get threeyear ban. We paid it off in three years. But each we do we pay a little bit more down. It's gone
three. We're able to fund that out of cap state. The danger is now the way it stands is FY30. We're down to $269,000 as a balance. Like I said, there could
be any with the free cash next year is a little bit more than that 5 a half% in which we would throw it into cap stave at that point in time to shore up this balance. Any excess from this year, if it comes into that tent two, we throw it
into cap stain, keep this balance going, and then next year, as we get closer with those roofs, we can adjust where they're going to sit and identify it at that point. But when this was done, I hadn't heard about that every two year
kind of thing. >> When was when was it that low before? uh last year I think it was it got down to 500 maybe >> and on on our original estimates it was it was more but we we had to bring it
down because of precash this year and I'm thinking that's going to be at least a million two at that point in time if we shove everything in extra that we get okay make sense
uh school building stave Again, beginning balance is the ending balance of previous year. We have deposits coming in from free cash. So the these numbers, like I mentioned when Justin was here, it includes the 455. It's the capital. It
includes 34,000 in uh turnover from the school department attributed to free cash. We told them they would lose that money. It's going into there. So it includes those two numbers. Um
the next one is the withdrawals. So this this was a little different than the withdrawals when I first started to do this. I didn't take the withdrawal out until last year. And I said, "Okay, we we're going to be earning interest on this.
It's going to stay in the fund." and it accumulated more interest than it should because now I think about it and we're going to be taking it out each year um so we can minimize the amount of
borrowing that we have so the interest we're earning isn't as big in this account. Um, we have the deposit for that nine which is going to be a war article going in. We should have a second warrant article
taking out that 5 million2 plus whatever the income has been. So I'm saying we should deposit it in and then have the authorization to take it out. But that doesn't mean on July 1st we're taking $5 million. you're taking it out when it
calls for in the construction schedule if this this may be a good time to talk about the borrowing that you're going to be doing. >> Mhm. >> In March. >> Yeah. So, we're we're going to borrow March 2nd and we have it's $7 million
borrowing because we a we won't have money this money yet available for the current schedule. We had had money going out the door March, April, May, and June. So, we're covering that. Plus, we have to cover the fact that we got to wait for MSBA reimbursements and we
don't know how quickly we're going to get those back, the say the 40%. So, we're hoping that this is our bigger borrowing and then maybe we're rolling and we don't need to tack on too much. We'll borrow for a full year is our plan and not to use it in the fall, not to
rebarorrow in the fall >> with the the shifting of the construction schedule. So the >> which I haven't seen yet, >> right? And it doesn't exist just yet, but we've heard it. >> So that means that schedule that >> we looked at the current cash flow that
they gave us and said, "Yeah, 7 million is going to keep >> get us through June of next year." >> But if we shift everything up, those payments are going to be a little bit bigger, >> right? And we'll have to evaluate that, >> right? So, we'll have the 7 million, we'll have the 5 million available
out of this account. I would think based on how aggressive that schedule is up front, because once you start construction, those numbers are bigger. >> Mhm. >> I could see where there's probably going to be
maybe a second borrowing in FY27 toward the end of the period. Well, we'll have to >> I mean FY 26, I'm sorry. In FY26. So, we're borrowing in March. We may have a
small one in maybe May or June depending on what the cash flow looks like just to tide us over and then a bigger one come first part of 27 because I think we're going to run out of >> money. If we're shifting that
construction cost up, we won't know till we get the schedule, >> but we should just prepare ourselves >> for that. >> Um, and once we borrow, it's easy just to to borrow again. >> The 7 million that we're borrowing, we're
going to get premium on. So the actual debt that we're going to be getting is going to be something less than seven 6868. We'll be paying interest on that amount of money, but 7 million will go into the
project. So that's the premium and it's it's good thing because it's reducing the amount we're actually going to have to borrow at the end. So that's that's good. Um, we'll get into the tax impacts of these things in just a minute.
Debt exclusion stabilization. Again, beginning balance is the ending balance. We have the deposits into the fund for the existing projects. We have the uses of the funds for the existing
projects. 30 and 31 cover the debt 100%. No impact to the tax pay. payment 30 and 31. Um, and then we have deposits in for you go. Here you go. One more. There we go. We
have the withdrawals for DPW and Shaker and those withdrawals of DPW. I mean, it's continuing how quickly we can get a play going with that. So basically in reserve summary, we
funded the entire capital plan that we're going to pay any cash with, whether it's through savings or cash itself. That's a total of 22 million out of the entire plan.
the debt on the next screen. Tony, these are the things that are on the capital plan or some things that we've discussed. I mentioned the dog park 825,000
issue being just roll it for three years, pay it down as we go. No impact to the operating budgets paid out of cap state. Next piece. So, we have the pool. We
have the $3 million number that we built in last year. Just came up with it for something to do with town hall. Sure, it's not going to be $3 million, but there's a placeholder there. And then FA Park. Right now, the thinking would be a
10-year bond to cover those things would be an impact to the operating budget. DPW facility at the bottom 20-year bond. It would be a debt exclusion item at this point in time
because that debt service is just too much to handle and it would be down from the money that we put aside for it whether preconstruction or post construction in the exclusion stabilization.
>> I would agree that the pool is going to be a memorial Um yeah, that determination was done after this. So I guess >> you guys heard it. Something happens to me. >> So should we be shifting the pool now
for in the capital plant? >> Where is it right now? Wait here. >> I would. >> Yeah. I >> I don't think PRCE has any intention. >> FY30 would be the first >> payment. I'll leave it after that.
>> They have it. Uh >> that's a wish. It's not >> We just pushed it up one year on the capital plan, >> right? >> They say anything around the DPW facility. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's this is after that, right?
>> So, basically, we've covered the entire capital land. >> We have some debt that we have to issue. Um, we need to update those things as far as come up with a plan for Town Hall. Now, we have potential for an expansion of this
building, potential new fire fac, second fire facility. That all needs to come into our planning process. Right now, it' all be dead. So, we need to figure out the best way because that's going to hit the
operating bud. Shalane. So this is what we went to town meeting with. And if you remember the timing from town meeting, it was the day before the state certified our values. So I
mentioned it on town meeting floor. We were using FY25 values. We had a bond amount of 50,725. Average home was 694. We had 71920 first year impact just
$1,000 total over the 20 years. Select board knows this from setting the tax rate values really went up this year because there was a rebal here. Go to the next slide, Tony. The average home went to 770 which
was a big jump. The values just went way up. So without the extra money going into cap stave that we put in that number for the first year impact um probably would have been 20 to $30
than the increase number that was showing there. So we showed 71920 in the first year at town meeting. It's now up to 72506 first year. Um total over the 20 years we go back one time.
Total over the 20 years is around $300 less than what we went to town meeting with because of that extra money because of this lower bond that we issued. So I still think that any monies that we can get into cap into the school
building stabilization before construction we should probably aim it for because that has the bigger overall impact. I mean these these value numbers as I said 84 are going to change every single
year. So every single year that bond is out there, the impact is going to change with changes in property value. So this it is what it is and you said we would lessen the impact as much as possible.
So when do you shift start shifting that thought process to DPW? 45 million is not there's no loans or grants and stuff for that, right? >> And and that 4.2 2. So you saw the debt
service in that first year in that other slide is 4.2 million 4.8 million for the school. So you're talking a comparable tax bill increase on the DPW. It's probably 680 690 at this point in time. But it's it's still
a big impact. So it's I don't know it's a discussion that we need to have but we need to uh >> it's tough >> come up with a with basically the plan of when is that going to hit start planning for that date how much money we
can put aside for >> like Steve said the the upswell and the spotlight and the amount of people that showed up for a will won't look anything that we will not have that a DPW and it's unfortunate
that it's a very important for the town but it's going to be a much harder sell if we don't really sell it differently >> impacts more people's >> it does impact at the end of the day >> exactly
>> but you know you have the 725 and you add another 680 700 to that number couple years after this. >> Yeah, >> it's pretty pricey at that point. >> And you're looking at a second floor for a police station.
>> Exactly. >> And how many times when you go ask the town for exclusions? That's the thing. So explore. >> Well, some towns go every year as group. So >> those times are good.
>> Yeah. Although I mean air does every year a near fire engine excluded. >> I tell you there was there was a time we were going when we're transitioning from paying from debt to um free cash and we had to bridge that
with capital exclusions. We went four times four years in a row with capital exclusions. >> After the third time the tenants said no. So four time didn't pass. So
and that was nowhere near this impact. We're talking pennies of the dollar compared to this. >> Oh boy. Okay. That's the lay of the land. We're able to fund everything on the 10-year plan. Now it's
the discussion of what on the 10-year plan we actually want to. So that's >> So >> I have a couple questions on your presentation, Steve. >> Yes, sir. >> Over the next three years, we putting $700
some,000 to change into the debt exclusion fund, right, that we're using to offset the debt that we've already incurred. What would happen if we took that 700,000 and put it into Shaker Lane? I understand everyone's tax bill goes up, but if If we're reducing the amount we're borrowing for Shaper Lane
and would make the increase go down in the long run, would it be cost effective or not to the taxpayer? Their their immediate tax rate will go up. I understand that. But then the amount of increase when Shaker Lane hits would be smaller. So, you're not going to have as
big of a jump when Shaker Lane hits. And it's possibly that the $600 average tax bill over comes down to 590 or something, right? >> So the next slide, Tony.
>> Okay. So this is FY25 numbers. It hasn't been updated for 26 yet, but for total debt, excluded debt, Littleton is what's that? 15th out of 18 towns that
were within 10 miles of us and I mentioned that and by FY 30 that number is zero right because we show exactly what the taxpayers impact is it would be zero
mentioned we're borrowing in March it's going to hit the 27 tax rate at a $7 million borrowing 5% % estimate $350,000. It's an impact of $70 on people's tax
bills in 27. So if we take away that other impact, we're adding to that 70. So it's going to be something higher, >> right? I understand. >> And does that what you're saying is does does that higher >> help on the back end, >> right? >> On what we're going to do,
>> right? I would say for the small amount of money that we have in that it's not going to make that big of an impact. I I ran the number for you. Every million dollars we put aside is >> it's a big impact on the total payment,
but on the impact to the taxpayer it was >> $20. It wasn't much, >> right? Um, so it'll have something, but it's not going to be >> because I mean it's threequarters of a million dollars effectively. You're lowering the number. So your tax bill
will go up slightly in the short term, but it won't go up, but in the long term, it'll be >> right. We can certainly run those those numbers. We have time before tab meeting. We have to make that decision, but we can look at it. A and as far as the discussion on
DPW and everything, I think we probably need to start talking more policy on a general building stabilization fund going forward. You know, we in our financial policy, we said we're going to put $500,000 to DPW building starting in
I forget what year, but as soon as we can, we need to start putting money into that fund whether or not the DPW building is, you know, one year or five years out because we know we have several buildings coming down and just but and I and at that point, Shaker Lane
will already be bonded and the rate will be known. We already know based on all your hard work that paying the money upfront would be better rather than necessarily backloading more on a debt stabilization. So >> but right now if you go back one Tony
>> one so right now our estimate after the bond is issued we're still putting 10.7 million into that debt exclusion right piece. that has an impact on what the tax is is
going to pay, >> right? I'm not suggesting we change anything for Shaker Lane, but we we've committed to putting like a million dollars a year for 10 years in. We should stick with that, but any additional rather than upping it from a
million to 1.2 or 1.5 that other money should be put into a general building stabilization fund for the next building project coming down. So I I guess a good discussion point at that point is
do we not pay cash for the roofs just commit ourselves that we're going to borrow for that stuff and take that money and put it aside into a fund. >> That should be a yes. That's another good >> but it's it's it's impacting the
operating budget at that point. So whatever that debt service is, and we know there's going to be a crunch already over the next few years until revenues kick up a bit. >> Yeah, >> it could it could hurt. But based on
what we heard this morning, we have time. So things are shifting that way. >> What kind of fund would we put what you're suggesting in >> just a building st like we have a sugar building stabilization fund. just create a general building stabilization. >> You could use it on town hall. You could use it on
>> No, I get the uses. Thank you. It's just so But that requires town meeting vote to use it. >> Yeah. Correct. >> Would you Well, if the if it's a school if it's a bu stabilization account and you have some kind of an emergency that
comes up, would you >> No, that's not for an emergency. That's for a planned. We know we have several buildings that are going to need >> Okay. Okay. to be expanded or replaced. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> I just >> Why wouldn't we want to put that money into the capital stabilization account
in order to have it all in one place and then compound interest and have a long money on your money rather than separating those accounts. >> But if they're intuitive comps, they're going to make the same interest rather than one or two, right? >> Compound interest. If your balance is higher, you get more interest than if you have $10,000 in two different accounts.
>> No. If you have 10,000 in each account, they're going to grow. >> No. >> No. >> No. No. It's going to be the same because you have 10,000 here and 10,000 here. It's still 20,000. It still grows at the same rate whether it's one account >> same rate but not the same amount of >> it's the same >> cash on the other.
>> It's the same compound. >> He's saying it's compounding at the same rate over each account. I know what he's saying. But don't we get a better rate the higher the not necessarily. It depends. >> That would be a separate question. Right. So
we'll we'll look at the scenario with the debt exclusion count and see is the goal for the least impact to the taxpayer. Is that what we're looking at? Whether it's immediate or down the road. Right. Okay.
All right. We'll take a look at that. So we have a capital plan in front of us. That's this sheet. Is this everything for this? >> This is everything that's been requested or everything that we can
>> Oh, everything with the exception of the dog park and correct. >> I question the DPW. Uh, wheeled excavator.
>> What is that? I mean, because the excavator that I saw yesterday was like 357,000 or something. Is that something different? Is there >> Yeah, it's track track excavator. The tank tracks. >> So, that's not even this. >> That's a wheel. That's like truck tires.
Heavy duty. >> He's got a wheel on it, right? >> Yeah. Wheel excavator. Two other tires. That's probably >> So he's not three to $400,000 an excavator that comes out of me.
>> You have a pretty picture. >> Should we go straight down the the list? >> It's like a tongue. >> We talk about the building department's vehicle. Is this something that we want
buy new? Is this something that we want to use one of the cruises that we're getting rid of? I'm all I'm all for the cruiser, but it would have to be one of the larger ones according to Henry said that the Explorers are >> You need the Taho. >> Yeah,
>> that's the thing. It is a Tahoe being replaced. There's only two of them. It's a chief's vehicle, right? But I thought he was keeping I thought he was keeping his Tahoe within keeping it here for some reason. Going down to someone else. I know Lieutenant
Landry has his older one. >> You're right. It's probably how he's doing it. I It might not make sense for the building. That's all. If he needs a bigger vehicle. >> What is the building department vehicle? What did he actually request? >> Something bigger than an explorer
for $40. Yeah, I think it's a pickup. >> I think it was an F150. >> Crew can pick up. >> No, crew cab pickup. >> That was the That was facilities. >> That's that too. >> Facility system. >> Right. But I thought I thought he said
an F-150. >> No, it's a Ford Explorer. >> 2025 Ford Explorer. That's what he got got. What he got? >> Okay. Cuz it's the 2025. The ones that he's getting are just so beat up. That's why he didn't want to get those hands. >> Yes. I think Henry wasn't proposed to
having something from the police. >> As long as I remember. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> As long as he's not dumping money into it, >> right? >> All you want. >> Just didn't want something that was going to cause his maintenance budget to go up >> to increase. Correct.
>> Get him a handme-down and give him $5,000 in a maintenance account. >> Yeah, that was what I was going to suggest. >> Be giving him $5,000. That's coming out of your general fund. >> No. No. Can we give him $5,000 in the capital plan to take whatever vehicle that the police give him and make sure
it's >> defined as capital item is 15 to be more. >> Okay. Make it 10,000. >> Well, we have $7,000 in the operating budget to use. >> What's the cost to structure? I wouldn't put it into the operating budget.
>> He's going to have this expense. He has it this year at the same time next year. So, if you're going to increase it, you increase it. >> I mean, take it down to $10,000 for a vehicle, tell him he's getting one of the police ones, and that's his
maintenance budget for that vehicle for the next year. And if he doesn't spend it, it goes back into cash, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, is there a reason we can't do that? >> Are these >> I mean, I don't know what the condition is of them, so have to answer that. Are these the hybrids that we're already
doing this with or have we still the older >> I think >> can we can we maybe find out from the police chief the condition of the vehicle >> training this year >> is that good
>> y figure out from Yeah. So, keep this one open for now. >> T >> cemetery truck. >> Yeah, he has pulled it up. >> I'm actually okay with that one. >> Gravestone going through CPC. That's
that's good. Mechanic truck 100,000 trucks are good. >> It's an 0808 Chevy. Let's >> say 17 years is good. >> Escavator 200,000.
Good. >> That was what? 42,000 rent. >> 4200 months. >> It was crazy. Yeah, it's 40 40,000 a run or >> 200
>> with a much longer life expectancy >> irrigation at Wickham 20. >> I'm assuming this is a manpower thing is to go out there and then watering it like they have. >> But the cannon is >> No, this is the I thought this was the
little spot well. >> This is putting in a well put in a point point well. Yeah, >> because the the frog pond that they draw the water out to use the water cannon. >> Okay, >> is labor intensive, but it's also that that pond doesn't always have water in it. >> But this is more than a well.
>> Probably a good idea, >> but it's more than just the point. I mean, $120,000 for >> he's going to put all the irrigation in, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Transfer station fence 50. >> So, the irrigation system would be one of the first things I would cut because I'm not sure that that's necessarily. I
mean, it's a lot of money for maintaining that one field. I don't know if it's a good investment or not. >> Well, we just put a lot of money into it and it's being used anyway, >> but it's being used more. >> I don't know because
>> it's a part of the shaker lane plan. >> This that field is not memorial field is not. So the the well that we funded last year >> that was for the common right? >> There is no well >> there is no well in common. So that
money went to where we >> So it was actually two wells I believe that we funded at Kerperfield and the common >> per is operational >> right but the common was >> is not
>> so do we have money in that article still >> we do I don't know close out,000. >> That's a question for Steve. >> Steve, >> uh, transfer station fence 50. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> Truck plow 896. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> HVAC system at King Street 350. >> It's a lot. Just a little bit. >> How many HVAC systems we doing there?
>> Get a fan. >> Flat. >> We get 30 window fan >> box fans. >> This is taking out that 15 ton unit. >> What's that? >> Yeah, that taking out the big unit.
>> Yes, that correct. >> They're just waiting for uh for it to go. >> Engine two replacement. It's so small, >> million 391 could be something a little
less could be. >> It will be. >> And we have 300,000 from last year's article. >> I would want to just double check that with the chief and make sure that um they have a incumbrance out there for a little over a million right now. And I want to make sure that that covers everything and that he doesn't need any
additional outfitting or anything additional for it before we can say that. But whatever is left, we will have an article or town meeting to put it back in the cap state that becomes available. Okay. >> There's a balance of 283,000 we know right now >> because it was 987 to buy last year's property. >> Yep.
>> That was the cost, >> right? >> Purchase order a little over a million. So, I just want to clarify that. >> Yep. >> And it's not been >> two year. >> I would hope >> this will be like 1.1 >> two year lead time on this, right?
That's what you said. >> I think so. >> I was surprised to hear that they used to be three to six a month. That's awesome. take me back to that. I don't know what the >> part of the class action was that they're throttling on supply. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Okay.
Let's get through. >> Any more discussion on fire or are we good? >> I wouldn't say good. >> Don't forget there's another one on the cap plan for 30, right? >> 30. >> Okay. Ambulance. He's paying out of his
receipts. >> Mhm. >> I vote no. >> What? >> Cuz I hated his answer >> for what? >> I'm not going to get two lemons from the same company when there other towns with the same problem on the same damn
chassis. >> Until we see that that can be fixed, I wouldn't buy another. >> But he didn't say he wasn't from somebody else. Okay. And I miser. >> Yeah, he was being I think tongue and
cheek a little bit, but he said he's not. >> We can stipulate that as long as it's not from the same company. >> Let's make sure of that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I thought he was I thought it was tight and cheek. >> I want to get the same from the same company. >> You clarified after. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> So, the only thing to to watch on this, like you said, five seats are down because there's one ambulance. >> Mhm. the next time an email list comes up in a couple of years, is he going to have enough there to cover it? That's my
question that's out there. >> His receipts are I know that he said that they're down and we don't know like he said the lag time, but they are up a little bit from where he was last year. So even though they have less volume, it seems like that has not been realized in revenue.
>> Receipts >> rescue boat 215. That's good. You know, I should one of us should have asked them how often we use the rest. >> I mean, obviously, >> when are we going to be okay? >> Yeah. Right. >> And when I found I was I was skeptical
if I heard the year >> that they also use it year round. That's worth noting too. They use it for ice rescues and things like that. So, it's not just true. >> LCTV's system >> cactus.
That's just a placeholder from what I remember. >> Correct. >> Cruiser replacement 168. Chief said it's for two cruisers this year. >> Mhm. >> It's going up and up and up. >> Yeah. >> It's all the add-ons.
>> Look at the ambulance. I mean the ambulance we two years ago we were saying 325, right? I mean >> I remember there was four something. We bought engine. >> Yeah. >> Ambulances as much as fire >> tower trucks.
>> Horses were too >> horses. >> School department. >> The 455. We're putting it to cap to school stabilization. They're paying it out of school choice. Everybody okay with those
projects? >> Yeah. I mean, we we seem to put off crack ceiling and in parking lots >> everywhere. >> So, if we were going to cut anything out of them, I'd say been 75 foot cracking and push it out. But
>> that's part of your agreement, right? >> Putting that into their money. >> Yeah. No, it's not. It's our money. >> It's our money. Yeah. >> School choice. >> No, it's not. It's our money because whatever they're paying, >> we're putting in we're matching. >> Yes. So if you don't agree with a project, it's something that we're
saving on our end, too. >> I know, but I would have disagreed with him when he said it. >> Whether they do it or not, we've done our part. So it's just like the 400 and something thousand from last year's capital. They haven't done any of those.
>> They can't come back to them. >> They can't come back to us for those things because we've done our part. We put the money aside for them. So this is on them. Whether they do it or not, >> it is an investment to so do the whole parking lot over again. So I just I didn't go out there and do an assessment
myself. I drive in there and go to a player or a basketball game or something and then I drive out and look at the >> Yeah, I drive into high school every day. It's >> seems okay. >> I wouldn't have thought. I mean, yeah, I'd also drive up and down foster comparatively.
>> It's a real >> I don't understand the need, but you know, I think it's that's where they want to prioritize. >> I can't remember any part of that parking lot being see a lot of chalk on it now. Um, I do think actually that we should, this is an aside, um, open up a dialogue
with them regarding the lighting and the dark skies just to understand how they're what their plans are and if there's anything they can do to >> where you just kind of go from an LED to an LED soft light. >> Well, there's things you can do like, you know, direct
>> that kind of stuff. >> They're awfully bright when you go with the library still. >> Yeah, they're really great. Um, I would also question whether there there's any green communities money or anything for that if you're replacing those if they're being >> Oh, yeah. It's they said it was going to
be more efficient, right? >> It's a good call. >> Okay. We already approved the select court approved the second floor renovation and we have decommissioning of the old source system for $100,000.
versus >> is it a ceremony or is it >> Nick got he said it could be phased in over years but over time what's there now will have an odor to it so >> because it's not operating
>> why is this not part of the sewer project in general >> when you build a house >> the uh answer I I did ask the question why isn't the sewer department covering this we are the sword deposit right now. So,
we would fit the bill pays it. >> So, so the question is, does this $100,000 come back to us when we're getting everything else back to us in the long term? Theoretically, you missed this. >> No, >> there's a drop in the bucket compared to
what they will owe us. This is all done. >> So, he's saying that if they do it all now, there won't be a smell. >> Correct. >> That's what he's saying. an inactive system when Patriot Fever went through the same thing when it was down the plan shut down. They weren't >> they turned it on and it's
>> Yeah. There be a lot of complaints. Yeah. >> One one thing we should I don't know if Rick you want to talk to this but one thing I mentioned about sort of having reimbursing the town >> and Rick who used to work for do kind of
raised some red flags so >> well I think I think legally you're allowed to recapture those general fund subsidies to the enterprise fund within a two-year look back. So I heard two years and I went
>> special what? Then I asked the question, could we do a pilot for that? And there was a little bit more. >> Well, I think you can charge a pilot to an enterprise fund, but the question is, do you really want to?
>> Oh, for this amount of money we Yeah, I understand you want to you want to recoup that money and that's all well and good, but do you want to >> have them pay a pilot in perpetuity or just for a couple years? I mean, I think it's better to say
>> we expect you when you're able to reimburse the prior two fiscal years that we subsidized >> by that time. >> Well, I you know, that's the problem. I don't know. I don't know at what point they have sufficient revenues to, you
know, maybe well beyond the two-year >> well look back. So, so we should probably plan on having them repay by a pilot somehow >> because they already gave us money for the pilot. >> That's the light file, >> correct? >> We're talking the sword. >> Yes, but we already received a pilot.
So, we can structure it the same way just amounts. >> Yes, you can do that with a even though it is us. It's part of this >> like I get told I get like >> it's going to be so far. >> But sewer is us little is >> we are
>> we are sewer. Well, so the I think that's >> I have a t-shirt. >> So, we're already supporting them, I think, through at least FY32 with user fee with the maintenance of operating cost. >> Yeah.
So you've been able to act >> a two year look back isn't >> I mean if we're talking 32 before they begin to pay us back that's millions and millions of dollars. I'm not sure how they decided on a two-year look back.
Um, you know, you could certainly make an argument that perhaps a longer period might be worthwhile and you know, the legislation isn't deal maybe maybe the thing is to maybe ask question at some point
or Tom's office and find out if there is a two-year look back period and start to discuss what a pilot would look like with that is we don't want to uh not get this money back
>> and add this to the list >> or just gets forgotten about over time. >> Okay, >> Steve, real quick, I'm just going to move back up to the alumni field thing. When we did when we did that project, um we revamped and re positioned to the
best of Musco's ability. Musco was the contractor. Um but the end zone closest to Memorial Field baseball field was um it's dark so >> it is it's dark spots >> that end like 20 in because we didn't
move the poles but the whole field moved that way moved away from the middle school towards Russell Street School if you will um by like 20 yards. So the lights initially perfectly placed on the 20 yard lines and now they're like on >> dark end
like the 40 yard line of the on one end and like the goal line I think >> um >> the end field. So it it's it's something that back then we knew had to be done but we were given not to exceed 4
million and >> yeah state's been talking about this project for a lot of years. It's Yeah. And that's that's I mean it started right then. It was we knew it then. >> Ball. >> I mean we're losing our football team next year.
>> All we play field hockey, soccer, lacrosse. >> Where are we losing for football team? >> No more football. >> We just don't have people. >> Not enough kids, >> right? >> Yeah. >> This happened in the 90s too. >> Talks with air little
>> like we have our hockey field too. probably swimming for sure. >> Fred, >> I don't know if that will help. >> The fire chief got back to me and he
I'll I won't explain the colorful comment, but basically the answer is no. He's not going to buy it from the same manufacturer. >> Appreciate it. >> Was it a heck no? Yeah, sure. Let's go with that. The right choice.
>> Anything else from anywhere? We approve the capital plan. The only thing we need to look at is the condition of the police cruises that are coming back. >> I've texted the chief to building department
and >> so if the cruisers are not condition that we make sense, >> are we okay? >> Did you? >> So I would I would
One of the problems we have with this replacement plan is we don't necessarily know which ones are coming up next year. So like some like um conservation wants a vehicle next year or is there a vehicle suitable next year coming up or should we ask the police chief to give
us two this year, right? We kind of need a better strategy for if or LCTV has asked for a vehicle at some point too. We kind of need to know when a vehicle is rolling off that would be appropriate. >> Yeah. I mean, it should be pretty easy for him to give us a list of what cars
are going to be up when, right? >> Yeah, he has it already drawn out. >> And that point, if the two vehicles this year are okay, >> okay, >> we should take both of them and just supplement last next year's capital, >> right?
>> So, yeah. So, we should find that out from the chief. >> That should sort of be part of his submission. I think every year >> just include all the vehicles and what condition they're in year. >> We have a list of what he has. I don't have any idea what one he's trading. You
know what I mean? >> I think it's like grand part of his budget this one and this one. >> Maybe we bring him over to highway department and have their mechanic take a look at them. >> Yeah, it's a good idea. in the summer.
>> Border health is the same. It's the same. But they don't >> Everybody wants >> Was he on here for one? What's that? >> No. No, he No, he does want one. >> Yeah, he gets >> request. He did not.
>> Yeah, the request. But these guys said it online could use like they're using their own vehicles cars in an office instead of a car that >> you should just have a fleet of >> the car isn't quite as urgent.
>> So a fleet keys in your office sign out. >> What's that? >> You could have like three or four cars if you they couldn't sign it out of your office. >> Sign out. >> One more thing. I just wrote notes last night.
um conservation clean lakes. >> So, we heard the presentation CPC's covering some of those things. Do we put a warrant article out there
like we did last year for just clean lake projects? They draw on it when they need it. Do we do like a $100,000 somebody who would take it out of cap statement this year. Well, not put as
much into cap statement this year, pay for that warrant out. They're done. We just need to make sure who controls that money. >> Well, I was going to tell you that committee if if I'd be more comfortable if I knew that that committee when they
decided they wanted to spend money on something, >> it went to ComCom and Comscom voted yes that we approve of that. So, so >> that would be the >> So, you want to cons? >> So, I would say no to this year, but we
should talk about it for next year potentially. Um, there should be Caroline indicated that CPC was basically covering the expenses this year. Going forward, we probably should look at whether conservation has an
article for clean lakes. >> Oh, we have a budget. I think the budget is under control for this year. >> Okay. So, all those So, there was two separate things. There was the maintenance stuff and there was plans.
>> Yep. >> CPC is covering all that 150,000 >> I believe. So, >> okay. But I think going but I think going forward we should probably let do that for next year and create a policy group. >> Can't talk about one more thing with
Cleveland. Last year we had an article. >> I looked in the report said 15,000. I thought it was 30,000 but it says 15 um >> it was 10 in the general fund >> under the control of the clean lakes.
Do we want to have one article this year that putting it under control of conservation? >> Let's see. >> I I Let's see what they've done with it. And >> okay, >> I think it's clear.
the agent, but in order to spend it, the the agent decides where it's going to be spent, but has to get approved by the monster. So, you have a check and balance. So, the full-time town employee has the control of it, but has to get approval
from this conservation. It should be under the control of the conservation committee, whatever. >> Yeah. one of our biking pedestrian that come right >> so we're rewriting the article from last
>> okay >> not the conservation a not the conservation department under con >> conservation commission >> right >> is >> no it's under lakes it's under >> because when we did this they weren't under
Correct. >> Okay, >> I'm done. >> 63 million of the 64. >> So, we have a portion. Do it again.