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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=W_Yw1iEj3rQ

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Flip on the switch. My TV's off today. >> I guess we start right away. Took away my TV, so I can't see what I'm doing. >> Well, that's delayed anyway. So, you >> It's uh 7:00 p.m. This is the zoning

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board of appeals meeting. We're at 37 Shadic Street, Littleton, Massachusetts. It's July 16th, 2026. And the first thing I want to do is introduce our newest alternate, who is Rob Mills. Welcome to the board, Rob. This is

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>> Rod Stewart, Cheryl Haulinger. You know me, Cheryl Gould. Uh John Su, David Alman, and Bill Bent. Thank you. Nice to meet everyone. Welcome. >> What's your background? >> Uh business and manufacturing and How long have you lived in Littleton?

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>> About a year and a half. >> Okay. Well, welcome. Thank you very much. What street do you live? >> What street do you live on? >> Uh, just up the top of Tadawan. >> Oh my. [laughter] >> Getting crowded on that street. >> Foster Street. Right right past where Tadawan start. Right before Tadawan

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starts. >> Tadawan. Tadawan. >> Um, Tadawan. Where are you? You're >> It's not a requirement. No. No. William, I don't know where you >> uh Whitetail Way. >> Whitetail Way. Well, it's good to have some variety. You're on the other side

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of town. You're on the other side of town. That's good. A bit of a concentration of us. >> Seems to be. >> And so, the next order of business I wanted to talk about here is that we asked our admin to ask the select board

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to consider voting or um re uh reccharacterizing the board so that we have two alternates uh allowed. And that would encourage more people to I think uh volunteer. We have had four in the past allowed and we thought it was too

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many at least I thought it was a little cumbersome and we have had trouble filling the spots. The feedback that I got was very helpful. What they said is the board has uh the select board and the and the planning board have hired

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consultants to go through all of the zoning bylaws in Littleton because many of them need updating and are a little bit archaic. And they asked if we wanted to have a special meeting to do this reduction in alternates or if we wanted to wait to incorporate that request into

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one town meeting vote when all of the revisions are proposed. and I unilaterally agreed to leave it uh with all of the revisions proposed because it really doesn't matter to us either way. If we had a third applicant, I'm sure we

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would all sit here and say, "Let's open it up again and let the third let the third alternate sit." So, um for right now, we're too it's a nice feeling around the table right now. And this is a good example tonight. I think one of us has to recuse from each of the

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meetings and therefore we can use one alternate and then another alternate depending on how that goes. So I just wanted >> You're all sworn in and all that good stuff. >> The uh next item on the agenda is the minutes that David asked for on December. You didn't get them from the

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admin, did you? >> No. >> Okay. She sent them to me with this um cover letter and I apologize. I thought it went to the whole board and so I didn't really jump, but she sent them to me with a cover letter that said she had trouble finding them and was assisted by

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Maron Tuhill in finding them and were these the right ones and she sent them to me. So, I made copies tonight to pass out and it's something we can uh certainly postpone voting on and reviewing till our next meeting, but I want to be sure you all get a copy. And

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I brought five. One, two, three, four, five. I I emailed one to you today because I don't need one. So you don't need one. You can pass to that one. >> And of course if the alternates weren't here then it looks like it was a December 11th meeting.

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>> The alternates probably No, this is for um Tavern Road. This is for Habitat for Human. >> That's the Habitat for Humanity. That's David pointed out that he never saw the from the second >> when they withdrew. >> Are we voting on these before, didn't

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we? No, >> no, not that meeting. That was never >> we we never it never reviewed >> seen these yet. >> Yeah. >> So, we're going to we're going to postpone those. >> We're going to postpone talking about them or voting on them. >> Thanks for getting them, Sher. >> And the alternates um probably can't

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vote on them. So, it'll be and I'll have to recuse. So, there'll be four of you voting on them, but um it'll be interesting to read it and just see how the board acts toward one another. Okay. minutes of last meeting would be everybody except for Rob because we were

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all here, right? So, is anybody reviewed these and does anyone have comments? I had a comment on page two starting with the first full sentence and the two Cheryls are a little

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confusing to me. So, I don't know if I want to ask her to use my last name or Sherry, but I think it'd be easier if we distinguish Cheryl from the other Cheryl cuz you spell it differently and I spell it differently. Okay. But Cheryl added that a special permit is granted by the board when I want to say

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>> where are you reading >> first first sentence on page two >> first second word >> okay first line >> added that a special permit is granted by the board when a nonconformity is excuse me a

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>> insisting and >> nonconformity is added that does not further intensify the current nonconformity I don't think the rest of the words necessary. >> No, existing doesn't need to be there. >> Yeah. And then I And then it says Cheryl asked why a front setback already in

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line. I put Cheryl noted that a front setback in line with the contiguous properties does not require a special permit. >> Would just generally that's just a statement. And then um Cheryl said this would qualify as an acceptable setback

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under the bylaws. Okay. The next thing I wanted to take out is the fourth line down. If you read the whole thing, it says something about variance before the board. The applicant must prove significant hardship, soil,

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shape, or topography and that the variance is not substantially more detrimental to a butters. I'd like to just end it there because she wrote than the existing bylaws and that's not the right context. Okay. >> Yeah. And then way down at the bottom,

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um, couple of comments here, I would like to comment that she does not have to tell us the number of a yays and nays. All she has to do is tell us um, excuse me. All she has to do is tell us

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um, unanimous vote if it's if it's all of if all of the members there. Don't you think so? Do you agree? Well, unless there happens to be four voting. If there's only four at the hearing, then it would be a four zero vote. >> Still risk. But >> she could also say just by a vote of

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5-0. I don't think she needs to put the the >> Yeah, but you're saying if there was What if there's only four people? >> Well, then it's four zero. But I mean, she doesn't have to say four eyes and >> Okay. And no nays. I I just think it should be simplified. I I don't care if she does or not or if you don't agree

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with me, but I just found that not necessary. and then adjourn. Cheryl asked if there were any member comments. I think it was David noted that the board had not yet seen the minutes for the April meeting. Is that right? It was

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you that asked for that, David. >> I definitely brought that up at the last meeting. I don't recall whether if if it was here or not. >> It could have been you, Rod, but we didn't have a Rob at that time. So, >> no. And you were I [laughter] was thinking maybe we should use last names of two Cheryls now. There's a Rob and a

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Rod. So, and it already got confused here before it even came. [laughter] >> I wonder if >> you're going to use both my last names. >> I don't know if that's going to work. >> Let me know what name you want to be used. You want to use >> Well, Rod, but that's >> I think you should be Sher and I should

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be Cheryl. >> And it should be Rod, not Rob. >> Yeah. >> Well, we got a Rob now, too. >> And it was Dave that noted the minutes, right? >> I think Dave noted. >> Yeah. And then and then it says seen the meeting minutes for

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the and I want to put the December hearing and then I think it was 83 to one. It said eight. Uh it said two. I think it was 8. It's 83, right? Habitat. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> It can't be two. >> So I just wanted to say 83 on there. Everybody agree with that? Those are my

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comments. >> What about the motion to consult town council? Has that been brought to anyone's attention? >> That's in there. >> Yeah. But are we doing it? >> I'll remind her if she didn't. I didn't see let it go out. >> I don't think so. I don't think it's anything's happened about it. I don't

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think she thinks that she's responsible for it. I didn't realize she was either. >> Okay. >> So, >> well, there's only one person who writes letters for our board. >> Uh, can I have a motion to approve the minutes as amended, please? >> So moved.

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>> Second, please. >> You're looking at me. Okay. Second. You like to second things. >> All those in favor? >> I [clears throat] >> Okay. Uh, next item on the agenda is member comments. >> I just made my comments.

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Okay. Um, I was uh at a planning board meeting for something else and they raised the topic of a uh Q&A discussion with town council about ADUs at which point they

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scheduled the first hearing on ADUs and we are going to be invited I think as a board to attend the hearing as a joint meeting. So if you get that invite or you see that invite you might want to attend. Do you have a date yet? >> I don't have a date yet. >> Okay.

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>> And also, when they're meeting in the COA building, the audio is terrible. Keeps kind of cutting out or dimming down. Uh whereas here, the audio is comes across fine. >> Well, you just raised another point. Someone asked me why we're still in the old room and why we aren't fancy enough

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to go to the new COA room. And not only is audio a problem, but the lighting in the room is awful. >> Especially with no screen, the shades are open. Yeah, it looks like everybody's got a halo in there. Ethereal. We're not ethereal here, I don't think. Mail received by the board,

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anybody? Uh, I didn't get any mail, so I [clears throat] guess that's off the list. And update concerning number of alternatives. We just talked about that. Okay. So, I would like to open the 710 p.m.

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public hearing. The case is 26-983, 27 Lake Warren Drive. The petitioners, uh, Mr. Gabriel and Miss Chris Den May. Did I pronounce your name right, K? um seek a special permit under section 17310B1

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for a proposed entry and porch addition as well as a proposed bedroom addition on the northwestly side of their property and such other business as may properly come before the board. So just uh a couple of things. This is a request for a special permit. Um

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>> before we go any further, I need to recuse myself. >> Mr. Soul needs to recuse himself as an abutter. >> As an abuter. So you >> don't live over there. >> His reason for excusing is that >> I'm officially on 16 Valley Drive. >> Oh, off you go.

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>> Okay, >> check. I'm the trustee of the of the of the trust that owns 16 Valley Drive. >> And we need an alternate to vote and I'm going to ask for it to be you, Bill, because you've been here the longest time. >> As an a butter, John, you're allowed to

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stay in the room and you're even leaving. Okay. Yes. And that was the next thing I was going to say. The way we do this is you come up, you present your uh petition to us. The board then asks questions. Then

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we'll go into the audience to see if your neighbors have any questions and then we will go back to you. >> Okay, great. >> Sounds good. >> Um, good evening everyone. My name is Gabriel May. Um, my wife couldn't be here. She's still on vacation

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unfortunately for me, but um I'm certainly happy to be here. So um we are applying for a special or I guess technically two special permits as uh so one of which would be a front porch/ entry edition. Um the second would be a

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bedroom addition. So um one of our goals is uh we would like to add a second uh full bathroom to our uh first floor. Um, so our existing bedroom, if this is approved, uh, we would use some of that space to, uh, put a bathroom there, uh,

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put a closet, and then our bedroom would be moved, um, further back into the house. Um, and then our entryway is just a little bit awkward. Uh, so we want to just kind of extend it out a little bit, uh, just to give us a little better entry into the into the house. So, um,

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guess that's it. >> Walk us through the setbacks, Mr. May, please. >> Yes. So I believe our existing from our existing stairs is 27 ft I want to say. >> So you're in the front.

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>> Double check. Yeah. >> Seven to the street. >> Yeah. So yeah, 27. Um so the if we are able to do the uh front entry porch that would put us at 25 uh or a little over 25. Um and then for where we are

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proposing to put the addition on the back side of the house. Um we're within the 15 foot uh setback. Um so we're planning to just use the existing wall there. Um just just push it back. So it looks like we would be at 14.

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>> Looks like it there's a slight angle there. >> Yeah. >> 128 in the front and where you'll end up in the back will be 141. Yeah. Correct. >> Yep. Looks like 128 to the chimney. >> No. >> Right. Or 128 to the wall. To the chimney.

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>> Yeah. To the chimney. >> To the chimney. >> Well, that's existing. So, >> yeah. >> Okay. And then uh the other one doesn't proposed addition to match existing deck. It's just a deck overhang deck. >> Yeah. The our we don't use the deck and

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the garage is attached, but the garage doesn't enter directly into the house. So, we're kind of thinking just fill that in, make that a living room, kind of rearrange the house a little bit if we can as well. So, >> that's not we can set back problems. >> Okay. Any board board members with

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comments, Bill? Okay. If I start with you? >> Uh, sure. Yeah. Any any comments from the the neighbors on what you're proposing? >> You can ask that. You can ask if Mr. May spoke to his neighbors. >> Well, Bill can ask if Mr. May spoke to his neighbor. >> Sorry. Yeah. Um yeah, we had uh one

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neighbor come by uh the other day mentioned, you know, he's uh you know, totally good with it. He he approves. Um we've kind of mentioned it to neighbors here and there. This has been we sort of started this a couple years ago, didn't go through with it cuz we had a child

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and just kind of put things on hold. Now we're kind of back to it. So, um you know, we feel like we have good relationships with our neighbors and haven't heard any negative feedback on it. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> That's positive. >> Yeah. just on the on the entry, the porch and

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entry. Is the current entry covered? >> No. So, like we have a overhang a little bit um just from the roof. It's probably 3 ft or something like that, but yeah, we just have concrete steps there. So, >> would it be covered with the new >> uh Yeah. Well, it'll be

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in here. >> You have this page? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Covered. Covered coach. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Looks like it comes out and just covers it. >> I would imagine, you know, thinking about last winter with all that snow and ice. >> Yeah.

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>> That must be a nice addition. Maybe even a safety improvement to be able to cover that front section. >> Yeah, definitely. And yeah, I apologize. I don't >> Oh, that's right. I see that these drawings. So, I I [laughter] don't know how how far the roof will cover, but yeah, it'll be um I think hopefully

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we'll have some space for seating, but yeah, ideally we just want to sort of separate our actual entrance from what we have right now. Kind of when you when you come into our house, it's we sort of have like a U-shaped layout. So, it's like you're once you're in, you're you have to choose to go into the kitchen or

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you go into like the living room and then all the bedrooms are on that side. So, we want to just kind of separate it so you have an actual separation from from the rest of the house. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Cheryl. >> Um Oh, I was going to go to Ron. >> I came back.

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>> Cheryl, >> no. This this makes sense to me. I'm I have no questions. I drove by the house and looked at it. My only concern is your backyard. The It's a tight neighborhood. >> Yeah. >> And your backyard is small. >> Yeah. Um and you're extending into it,

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but you're still 20 feet off your property line. So, and you've got plenty of room to mow all around, >> which is my big thing. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah, it's Yeah. tough with existing, >> right? >> The uh stairs remain at 27.7.

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>> So, the only decrease in the frontage is the overhang of the roof. >> Um I >> I didn't read it that way. I didn't read it that way. >> I guess I guess it looks like it's like a 4ft roof extending off. So yeah, I

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guess yeah, the roof would >> Yeah, I mean the stairs are staying the same. >> Yeah, this Yeah, effectively. Yeah, they stay the same. >> Looks like it >> it doesn't difference. Yeah, >> it doesn't. The 2 point the 2.7 is existing

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>> and it's going it's going further back than the new 2.5 which is if you go here >> 25 he's squaring it off. >> Yeah. >> So it's going to be 25.5. It is >> my point is the main steps and everything are not changing. It's the

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overhang that's decreasing the frontage. >> I I think the steps are changing. I think that's wrong. >> I think that that's that's what this plan means right here. The steps are going to be enclosed. >> Yeah. >> So,

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>> it looks like a 2.2 foot difference. So, yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So, that that puzzled me because it looked like the stairs are running down beside the porch on this view, whereas the stairs are now going to come off the porch, >> right? >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mean it might look awkward on the drawing, too, cuz I think the it'll the entrance isn't going to be facing the street. So, yeah. I think I get what you're saying. Like I I do think the roof is going to be hanging over, but it's like the stairs themselves are going to be facing like

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our dra or garage. >> Can I Oh, your stairs are going to be facing the garage. >> Yeah. Or or I guess I should say the entrance itself will be fa like >> facing the garage. But are this I'm I'm now confused by >> it's just a step down. step down onto your porch and then step

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down onto the ground. >> Yeah. Versus Yeah. The ex We have like a three-step precast. Yeah. >> Okay. And Rod, what we do here is we even though you're not a voting member, we poll everybody. >> So, you have questions. >> Um, actually, I don't have any questions because you've asked all the ones that I

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was curious about. So, thank you. >> Very good. Um, anybody in the room that would like to speak for, against, or in favor of this? I'm John Su the better. I'm on paper road.

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>> Looks like a nice uh adjustment to the house to make it more livable without really causing any issues in the neighborhood. >> And your protetéé >> H >> and your proteége she actually has to live in the neighborhood. >> She actually lives in a house. Yes, >> I know. So, does she have any comments?

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>> The ugly mother-in-law. >> Yeah, the uh she's my mother-in-law. My stepmother-in-law actually pay more attention. >> Where do you now? Which one are you in? If you if are you a direct to Butter? >> No, he lives in 16 Valley Drive. >> So, directly behind

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>> there's a street between us. >> But 16 Valley Drive's property runs all the way up right up against it. I was This happened about maybe two years ago. There was a house that we did a buck that w to I think they added, but >> Oh, on white white pine. >> On white pine itself.

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. And just can I have your name for the record? Fred. >> Give me your name. >> Who? What? >> They want to know your name. >> Oh, Fran Meyers. >> Fran Meyers. Okay.

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Okay. Hearing no other objections. Does the board want to uh close the hearing? >> I make a motion to close the hearing. >> Second. >> And do you want to deliberate? >> Sure. >> Well, we going to close the hearing first. >> Oh, sorry. All those in favor of closing the hearing. Sorry.

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>> I >> I >> And and uh next, >> it looks like a very sensible plan to me. >> Backyard. Again, the backyard's tight, but there's still 20 ft off the back property line. >> Do you want to make a motion?

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>> Anyone else have anything to say, though? >> I I I agree with that. I actually I think it's a nice enhancement. It fits right in. I I think it >> I think it's a good good layout for you. >> I have a couple minor comments. >> Go ahead. >> I have no heartburn over steps coming

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into that setback a little bit. And as far as the 14.1 ft setback, it looks like it's pretty consistent with the house itself and less than to the chimney. So, I couldn't have any concern there. >> Right. >> Thank you. Good points. I agree. This

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looks looks like common sense and a nice addition to the neighborhood. >> I make a motion. >> Go ahead. >> That we grant case number 26-983 27 Lake Warren Drive

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as substantially presented. >> What are you going to say? Grant a special permit to >> grant a special permit to >> and you said on that for a read. >> Yeah. for a proposed entry in porch edition as well as a proposed bedroom

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addition on the northwesterly side as substantially presented with setback from road to be no less than >> I would have to say that >> you don't want to give give a number here >> I don't think you need to do >> now it's not very close we're okay with

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it >> I don't think you need to do that >> if you're off by an inch or two that substantially saves you >> don't be off more >> second to that motion >> we A second. >> All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I.

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>> I. >> Did I do it right this time, Brad? >> Did I get it right? >> Rod. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um, I just wonder Cher Cher move to grant and David second.

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>> Okay. Thank you very much. These are special permits. So, the building inspector could give you a decision uh excuse me, a building permit right away, but you there's still a 20-day appeal period. So, you take a risk. Yeah. >> If you take it early. >> Okay.

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>> Thank you all. >> Thank you very much for coming and for being prepared. >> Next hearing is we okay on time? >> Yeah. 7:25 public hearing case number

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26-984 359 King Street a petition for a special permit under section 17368 to convert a single family dwelling to a two family dwelling um and such other businesses may come before the board. I

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am uh going to appoint Rob the other new alternative mills to this one and I'm going to recuse myself because I do have an interest in the outcome. >> So I'm leaving the room. >> Take a drink. >> Cheryl will take it over.

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>> I think you didn't talk. >> Good evening board members. Um my name is Joe Catalo. I live at 41 Robinson Road. I'm a general contractor and I work for Mr. Dwight Long who is the owner of the property. And tonight we're here to request a

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special permit and I brought the article for a conversion of a dwelling to a two family residence under section 173 68 of the zoning bylaw. Thank you. The bylaw states the building

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must be in existence prior to March 1951. The house was built in 1830. >> I already print it out. [laughter] Thank you. Um we have this is the

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existing condition of the house right now. Um, we have been before the historical commission and we we requested

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we had a structural engineer look at the interior of the barn because we were trying to restore it. It's not satisfactory to be restored. So, we're going to demolish, dismantle and demolish and repurpose the beams that are in the barn. And we're

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going to restore the left hand side of the house. >> Um, we I have I have a lot of experience in doing this type of work. That's why Mr. Wong hired us. We recently did 12

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Robinson Road. That house is one of the oldest houses in Littleton. We did dismantle the barn. We took the roof off the barn and we set it on the street. Then we rebuilt the whole right side of it. So that house is red now. If you drive by, it's

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it's not white, but um you might recognize it when you're coming out of Northern Bank, but that's the most recent restoration that we've done. So we've had u very good experience with it in doing this type of work. We've been

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to historical commission, as I said, we applied for a building permit with the building inspector for a two family. Mr. the longest paid an architect to do plans. This will be what the house will look like when it is completed. So that

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will be all new windows. It'll be compliant to current buildings zone by current building requirements, insulation and so forth. So uh hence we try to mimic it so that

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it looks as close as the existing barn as possible with putting in new components. Um and welcome to uh answer any questions that the board might have.

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Also, excuse me, Madam Chairman, Mr. Long would like to speak about his history of the property for those of you that don't know um about that. So, I'll let Mr. Long speak and then I'll answer any questions. Uh thank you for letting us come tonight. Um I'm Dwight Long at

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363 King Street right next door. So, I live directly left of the property. It's the big white Victorian with American flag and granite um planters out front. I've lived there

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since 1986. I bought it from Bob Wilson. It was a condemned house. Uh I'm personally extremely vested in that house and 359. I've known Richie, the previous owner,

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for a long time. Um, I mean, I've stripped my house down bare bones, put it back up a couple times, many dumpsters and many dumpsters. And when Richie 5 years ago told me he was going to

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sell, he was going to Rochester to be with his daughter, he said, "I'll give you first right of refusal." And after seeing what happened down the street, I didn't want that to happen at 359.

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So I purchased it. I rented it to a couple ladies who ran a farm. That didn't work out. And in the meantime, my wife has a mess. She's not doing great. I need to get to a onelevel house. So, I thought this

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would be a great opportunity for me to put a house overlooking the pasture, do a two family that would help me manage that whole property. And the main thing for me, I love this town

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than here, seeing all the changes, but I I love the community. I love the proximity and I want to maintain what we have with the addition of a house out back.

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And that's my story. Any questions? >> Yeah. Um there looks like there's a couple garages going in or >> uh with that >> there's circle there's >> Yeah, there's a there's an existing

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bunny barn that we call bunny barn. Richie used to raise bunnies. Oh, >> okay. >> So that's going to be um maybe like a like I think it's a two or threebedroom house with my hopefully my niece who's moving back from Colorado in there. And

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there's another house right next to it overlooking the pasture. That'll be a onelevel ranch for my wife and myself. And then there's a third small house overlooking the pasture that'll be for my daughter. And then

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there'll be the two houses out front. Okay. >> Right. So just to clarify that cluster development is a separate that's not a part of >> we need to we need to discuss that but after that we close the hearing.

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Do you have any questions for these gentlemen? >> Well, just Yeah, I'm just going by what the variance or what the special permanence is. It's not about >> We're not We're not We're not the zoning board, >> right? >> Um the planning board may zoning board.

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>> We're not the planning board. >> We're not the planning board. We're the zoning board. Sorry. Um, we may, and the word is may, grant this special permit for a two family based on whether or not it's we think it's detrimental to the neighborhood. But we can also take into

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account what is already on the property. And I spent quite a bit of time talking to Tom Harrington today about this. And I'm sorry. And um, let me silence this one. That's >> so we um [clears throat] so I'd like to

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discuss that once we close the hearing. >> Sure. >> And we'll decide what we >> just uh so repurposing the beams, where are those going to be included in the in back into the house or are they being repurposed elsewhere? >> When we did Robinson wood beams out of

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the barn and we [clears throat] put them in the house where they were aesthetically pleasing. The problem with a wood beam that's 100 years old is you can't do any integrity testing of it to know that it doesn't mimic what an LVL

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is. And >> John, I know you know what an LVL is, but it's, you know, it's a s it's a high strength piece of timber. The beams don't qualify for that. We use them where we can. The other thing that Dwight has in the basement there is he has a lot of beautiful granite post.

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We're going to take those out. will use those to demark the conservation area because the back of the property it he is going to keep that as a 5 acre open space for his bluebird and cardinals and

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so forth and he's going to raise sheep. But just so that the board is clear, we're here specifically for the tooth family, right? >> We've already been to the planning board. We're going back to the planning board. We we were at the planning board

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three weeks ago. Dwight was away. He had to send a check to Green Environmental for peer review. That peer review is in process for the open space. He may also elect to minimize the two houses that he proposes

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to construct and only build one if he so chooses, but that's a totally different subject. We're specifically here because the building inspector will not give us a permit until we come before you to get

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a variance or a I call it a variance. It's a special permit by law to convert that to a two family. >> Any other questions? >> Yeah. On [clears throat] that rendering, is the barn section one unit and the left of the second unit?

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>> Yes, Rod. This will be one unit and this will be a separate unit here. Okay. >> The entrance to this unit will be in the back as well as this. And um they are uh this unit is three bedrooms. This unit is two bedrooms.

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>> Just out of curiosity, it's not part of this, but I'm just curious when the other two units get built, will this be like a condo setup? >> It's to be determined what type of an association it is, whether Mr. along keeps it within his family. That's something that we have to work out right

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now. It's right now it's it is um we're at we're before the planning board for an open space permit and it does qualify and meet all the restrictions for that >> but just limited to two more units. >> Correct. >> Because of the wetlands itself. No, not

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not because of the wetlands, but just because of the um we did prove out that a a five watt subdivision can be built on the entire property if so choose if he so chooses, but he doesn't want to do that. He wants to keep the pasture. He won't he wants that vistor in the back.

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It's pretty special. >> But that's not us giving it ver that that's not us anyway. That's just curiosity. >> That's not us. >> I know. It's just curious. >> Yeah, it is curiosity. I talked to this gentleman quite a bit today. I stopped by and he was very kind and showed me

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the bunny barn and other buildings. >> Any bunnies? >> No. But a very very easily finishable building. >> Any questions? >> Oh, just correct. Where's the orientation to the road? >> This is this is King Street right here. >> Right in the front. Okay.

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>> This has a white fence in front of it at the present time. >> Right. So, Badges funeral home is two doors down to the right. Between this building and Badges is a two family, a green two family that sits between

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badges. >> I know where it is. I did not I did not have a chance to drive by before we came today. So, thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Now, I'm puzzled with this Google Earth. It looks like there's a building here in the building. >> So, that that building right out front rod is the building that we're talking about right now. >> Okay. And what's this?

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>> That's the bunny barn. That that's a big that must have been happy bunnies. [laughter] >> I actually don't want to close the meeting because I want I want these people to be able to give us input. Um but I do want to talk to you about my

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take on all this. Um to me this house is makes perfect sense to turn into a two family. It's got a duplex next to it. It's gone on a street with many other duplexes. I do think it fits into Did you all get a chance to read this?

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>> Maybe we should read it into the record. >> You can if you want. >> No, I really don't really want to read it. >> Okay, you do a better job. >> It says we may grant special permit for the alteration to become a two up to a two family if such that the building or structure that was in existence prior to

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March 5th, 1951, that's when we got zoning bylaws. And provided that such building or structure so altered and converted in the opinion of the board of appeals will be in harmony and conform with the character and type of residence generally prevailent in the immediate neighborhood

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right on King Street there. I would argue that that is within keeping. Um there are several other two families on that area. But when this was written, um, condexes didn't exist. And any property that becomes a two family now

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by if it's legally a duplex or a two family, it can legally be turned into a condex. And what I understand you're proposing is not to subdivide the property at all, but to end up with five or six building houses on the property

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and have a condominium association. That isn't that what you told me this afternoon? >> Not six. No, I said some type of association. I I'm not an expert in real estate development. I'm relying on my experts. I said that we I want to put up

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when you told me I had three residences on the property. I said, "No, I have one residence in the property. That's a bunny barn. That's a pony barn." You said, "Somebody's living in that house." I said, "No, no living in there." Well, living there. I said, "Nobody's living in there." So, I took you in and

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nobody's living there. >> I know, but the building on the right clearly is a residence. The one the one on the right, as you walk, as you drive into the driveway, there's the there's the main house on the left. There's the bunny barn, but there's also the house on the right that

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has curtains in the window and a car parked in front of it. >> It's not It's not part of the property. There's no house on the property there. Look at that. There's There's nothing. There's a there's a uh he's got >> the adjacent lot. >> That might be the adjacent lot. >> Is this the one you're referring to?

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>> This is the >> That's the main >> I'm referring to. This >> right right there. There's a >> No, >> you're building right there. >> Yeah. Without >> That's not a building. >> There's a pony barn right here. >> An open shed pony barn.

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>> Is this Is this the house? >> Yes. >> There you go. This is the pony barn that overlooks the pasture. [snorts] It's just two stalls, open shed, run out. >> Okay. It looked like It looked like someone was living there to me. >> No, nobody's living there and nobody's

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living there. Those are two barns. That's an open shed. This one has heat, no water, no bathroom. >> It has water. >> I said, well, it has wa [clears throat] handwash water. Doesn't go to the septic or anything because it was farm.

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>> Okay. at the time. >> I'm not trying to sir. >> Well, I I thought that I looked at this and thought someone was living there. I pointed it to you and I said someone's living there. >> Well, we can go there if you would like to go there. >> That's not relevant anyway. So, you're talking about converting the bunny barn

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and building a new >> two two new houses potentially. >> So, the bunny barn will be taken down. >> No, bunny barn's going to be the model of bunny barn. it right now at the present time. Madam Chair, we we haven't we have the the word condominium has

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never been in the discussion. It's always been an open space bylaw. Homeowners association is the way we've been approaching this because right now at the present time, he's talking about mostly family members living there. So, I I don't want to mistakenly

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uh present something to the board that he's not intending on doing. >> I understand. We're just we're just here for the two family. We just so the board understands we started this process last November with getting plans done and

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went to the building inspector and unfortunately my client is being hoodwinkedked into the fact that there is presently a two family on toadawan road that's brand new that's trying to be permanent that's got nothing to do with this and because of that going on

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Mr. Fontaine said that he did not feel comfortable granting him a building permit to remodel this house. That's all we're asking to do. >> Mr. Fontaine doesn't have the ability to. It says it says the zoning board has to >> That's correct. >> So, it's not that Mr. Fontaine doesn't

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feel comfortable. It's that you have to come here and we have to grant it. >> It's it's it's also No, let me finish, please. It's also we have to look at this as long term. We have to look 20 years down the road. We have to look at what happens if this

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gentleman decides to move and or and sell all the properties. We have to look at this house and and our purview is on this house. It's not on the rest of the properties. He's going to deal with planning board on that. I understand whether he does a subdivision or he does

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a um assoc condo association, whatever he does that he's going to deal with the planning board on that. That's >> correct. But this house is under our purview. >> That's correct. We we respect that. >> And in talking to Mr. Herring and because he has other buildings on the property and at the time I really

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thought the Pony Barn was a was a a residence. I'm being told corrected and told no. No, it's not. Look like it looked an awful lot. It's a very pretty >> Well, it looks pretty pony. >> It's a fashionable horse barn is what it is. It really very looks very attractive. >> Very pretty

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>> curtains in the window pony barn. I'll accept it's just a pony barn. But I talked to Mr. Harrington. I got permission to talk to our town council about the fact that we would be turning this single family into a two family when there are already other buildings on the property and a plan of putting

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other buildings on the additional houses on the same property without necessarily subdividing it. And that is not within keeping of the building. And what Mr. Harington and I this is for you guys. What Mr.

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Harrington suggested is that we ask for a continuence on this matter and look at some language that minimizes a condo complex from going in a very residential area. Um that land all backs

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up to behind Road and Baldwin Hill Road and to put a condo complex in that area is concerning. So he think he suggested that we continue the hearing, give him a chance to come up with some conditional wording

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that would [clears throat] still of course allow the owner to subdivide because he would have or deal with the planning board, but would keep this from becoming a condo complex without going before the planning board. So that's what his suggestion was to me today.

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>> I have a real problem with that. We're here to talk about converting give permit to convert that house. To say we're not going to do it because we're afraid that down the road it might become a condo association I don't think is appropriate. We're looking at this house and this house only. The rest of

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the information is more informative. Yeah. The planning board can do a subdivision. They could uh >> Yeah. They can't do anything build the rest of the buildings without going to the planning board and getting their approval. >> Yeah. Exactly. And if I'm not wrong, isn't there across the street a condo association? >> Hagers.

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>> Huh? >> Yeah, Hagers. We've talked about what an abomination. >> I'll never be Hagar. >> I mean, Hagers is a different told a different story, but yeah, it's it's across the street. So, it's not like there's nothing nearby that meets that requirement. Um, [clears throat] >> but that's allformational, but it's not relevant.

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>> But I don't Yeah, I think the only thing that should be should be looking at is this is a house that exists, and they want to turn it. First of all, it sounds like about a third of the house is about to fall down to go up the barn. >> And so they need to take it down anyway. And then they're putting it back up and

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the finished product looks a little bit different than existing one, but there now, but very close to it. Doesn't have that little slightly lower section. >> We we picked up the roof line between the two, John, just because of headroom. >> Yeah, I understand. >> You deserve it.

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>> Oh, I understand. and and so you know it still has the pretty much the same look. Um it's sitting right on the street. I mean the house is not very far off the road. Hence the reason why you're entering it from the back so you have a place to drop park your car and get out of your car. >> Um I

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>> it's I don't see a major issue with other >> are we in discussion now or >> we are we have it close to hearing. >> I just I'd like to say I appreciate the work. I mean I love that 12 Robinson Road. It's beautiful. Very nicely done. I you know and I appreciate your commitment to the town and what your

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thinking is. >> You know that said I have to say that in other cases I think to me it's important and I think it's important for the town and all our boards for us to act consistently and how we review and I've heard us delivery and talk about the

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broader community broader timelines bigger context more than once. So in some ways it's not that I'm opposed to this but if the idea is that this is within this is a project within a context and there are considerations and

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I know I appreciate and believe take you at your word for for what you're doing but there's a lot of unknowns around this. So to me it's I think it's important to be consistent and having taken in the context before

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and considered the broader I'm in I'm in favor of that route >> and there's no unknowns as far as what's in front of us today. >> There is another >> there's the context. There is another existing building that has running water

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to it that I could turn into an apartment for about $10,000. >> Well, no, it cost you more than that. Decide on septic system how to deal with that >> and just connect up to the existing one. >> You can't connect to that existing one. It's illegal. >> But that's not what's in front of us. In

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front of us is whether we allow them to convert that building into a two family. Tom thought we should should get a continuence so that we could allow it and make sure that it the planning board has to oversee it. >> What's your concern?

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>> They already do have to oversee it. >> Well, he >> they can't he can't do anything else to that property without the planning board's approval. >> Okay. So, we have an ADU bylaw in town. Um, if we make it a two family, I think suddenly it can become four because

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there's a Yes, >> that's not what ADU says. >> We already said that there would be no ADUs. That was one of the things we specifically said to the planning board. No additional housing. >> Guess I'd have to get permission for an ADU. >> So, you're going So, you want to build

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four properties or five? I'm confused. Or you're not sure yet? >> Two here. Bunny barn would be three. House for my wife, whether it's and then

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a house for my daughter. Whether that one happens or not, that will either not happen or it'll stay open space, but it'll be total of five, not six. >> It's beautiful land. Um I I I admit it's [clears throat] absolutely gorgeous land. But um

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I don't know. Tom Harrington's best advice was we continue the meeting and give him a chance to work up something that conditioned it for further development >> because we can we can pass special permits with condition. Why wouldn't we want to read that?

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>> I mean, what what's the rush? >> This is a question for you, Rod. What's your concern with waiting? >> Uh, there's no concern with waiting. I just don't see that there's a need to. If Madam Chair, may I speak? [clears throat] I think that you're

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getting confused with the fact that we are in the midst of a conversation with the planning board. We made a decision to come before you to get this done while we're still discussing with the planning board. This what he wants to do

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is not already approved with the planning board. We just wanted to get this so we can say to the planning board, we've done that piece of it so we can move forward. He's still working on it. There's going to be conditions. There's variances. We just got the peer review from the green company and

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there's variances that have to be met. We're asking you to vote on this and this only. you're com you're you're adding in the permitting of the planning board in this meeting and I don't think that's

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fair to my client at all because it's pretty clear that you may grant us the right to convert this house to a two family. That's all that we're asking. We're not asking for anything else. You can certainly contact the planning board

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and have a discussion with them, but we're already in the discussion process. >> We're not asking for anything else other than that. >> So, why isn't the planning board wrapping this house into the whole project and just being >> because this this came up if you want us

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to go to the planning board and say, will you grant it? It's not their right to grant it. It's your right to grant it. >> They can ramp it into the entire project. >> They can or they don't have to. this could be sampled. >> We we we we didn't have that conversation with them. We always

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thought that we had to come before you for [clears throat] this for this per this variance special permit. >> I I understand I liked Tom's um suggestion of having some language that

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>> I don't think we have a right to ask that language. I it's it's not our >> We can grant special permits with conditions. We can but this but you're asking for a special permit for something else on the property that's not even ask it we can condition it on further development. He can still

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subdivide the >> I don't think we can. This doesn't say right. >> Tom said we could. >> Well, it doesn't mean he's right. I don't think this says that we can do that. I think this says that they have a right. They have a right because the house is old to convert it to a family.

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>> Right. And if it's not >> says that we may grant a special understand doesn't say they have a right >> if it's not detrimental >> they can ask us for a special permit to do that there's no right there's no god-given right here >> I disagree with you I think if they went to if they if we turned it down they

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went to court the court overs >> I don't think so because it says we may and it in our opinion in the opinion of the board of appeals in harmony and conform the character and resonance generally prevailent in the immediate neighborhood >> so that's I agree with But the existing the new house, the renovated house is

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going to look basically the same as the house that's there already. So they're not changing the looks at all of the neighborhood but turning into a two family. >> Right. And this is >> no change that that's not going to stand up. >> John, just to at the last to the to the point about the previous two family that

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came in, there was conversation about what having a two family in a single family neighborhood means. That's >> why is that not appropriate now? because that is based on a new construction which is it specifically let me finish you as the question that is based on a new construction that was specifically

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not allowed in the bylaws >> the new bylaws do not allow a two family house to be built brand new >> but that's not what we talked about the discussion was the neighborhood and that same thing comes up what I think what Cheryl's talking about is thinking about

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the neighborhood in the longer term and I don't quite understand you know Why? I don't get why a continuence doesn't make sense. I would really like to see what is being proposed. It has nothing to do with saying no. >> It's just recognizing the scale of this

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project and the potential impact to the community. >> Go again. We're looking at the house, not >> the rest of the project. We don't have any control over the rest of the project. >> Not talking about control. >> Well, you are. You start adding when you start adding conditions, you're trying to control the rest of the project.

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>> That's the planning board's job, not ours. and and it's that we consider this not detrimental to the neighborhood. Not consider whether other development we don't even know is going to what it's going to be is detrimental. That's not on the table. It's just this unit

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whether we allow it if it meets the bylaw to be converted to a two family. >> I don't think we have it. We'd have to say it's not it's going to be detrimental. I don't see how you your conditions have to be on the house itself, not the rest of the lot. >> Correct.

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>> John, you're agreeing with Ry though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. >> John, Board of Appeals may grant a special permit for the alteration provided further that building a structure so older is in the opinion of the board of heels in harmony and conformity the rest of the characters generally prepared in the immediate

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neighbor. >> So what that is telling me is the only reason I cannot let me finish. The only reason I cannot approve it is because I have to say it's detrimental to the community. And if you look at >> it says you can't approve it without if

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it is detrimental. Doesn't say you have to approve it if it is it's May. May is a big term. >> I read in there saying that the only way I cannot approve it is if if it's detrimental. >> So how detrimental I not >> why would you why would you read it that

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way? >> Because that's how I read it. I'm telling you that's how I read it. I believe >> grant a special permit for the may grant provided in our opinion it's in harmony. >> Exactly. It doesn't it doesn't mean that Shell it doesn't say Shell grant >> and why is >> there's a big difference between May and Shell.

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>> I'm just telling you you ask me what I thought. I'm telling you I believe that tells us >> I just I just had heartburn over the other buildings being on the property. The fact that >> they're not there yet. There's one building. >> There is there is a building there that has a cement floor and has a bed in it

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and has running water to it and it looks like it's ready to be a structure. >> That is my daughter's bed that I'm taking into Boston. I'm setting it up to build the frame so I can deliver it. There's nothing to do. And the running water does not go to a septic system. It goes to a drain and it's only used to

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wash hands for the bunnies. So you go to the windows are thermal windows. They're >> It's hard to buy windows that aren't thermal. >> It's It's >> My garage has thermal windows and it has John gave me heartburn. the fact that we're turning a single family into a two

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family when there's already two other structures on the property, one of which is ready ready and waiting to become another building. >> That's not in our preview right now. >> That's not our preview. That's we're not allowed to look at that. >> If you have an issue, go to the next planning board hearing and bring it up. >> I would suggest that I mean we we may

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grant it. We don't have to. And it's not these these are contingencies that we must consider. We don't have to grant it under any >> No, but we need some >> obligations. We certainly do. Um, I'd like to ask a couple questions on I think Hill has a couple as well. So, the

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when was the building originally built? The one that's on site? >> 1830. >> And then what about the bunny barn? >> The bunny barn? I don't know when >> 1990ish 1995. >> That's not relevant to what's before. >> Oh, I'm just asking the question. I'm

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just trying to understand. Um >> I think it is relevant and that's why I called Tom Harrington. >> I Mr. Matt, did you have any comment? I >> I just like to maybe frame in a different way. Right. When when you when you look at this and you look at what I

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think is come before us, it's it's talking about that piece of property. Not that piece of property, that house. And that house essentially is going to it's the same footprint. The footprint doesn't change. Maybe maybe the roof line changes a little bit, but it's it's going to look the same. >> So, it hasn't doesn't doesn't do

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anything >> other than I think make an improvement to to to that piece of property. And then ultimately, I think the other stuff is not relevant to to to this right now. It's not going to give you a leg up by if you went forward and and went forward

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with that and made that change and then you got voted down or not approved for the other piece. It doesn't there's separate issues. I I I think I believe there's separate issues. >> There's always always a gee, I already went for the ZBA and they've already turned this into a two

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family. Of course, you should give me what I want out back. You know, there's there there's always some of that. There's always, you know, she dad said dad said yes, so you know, why would you say no kind of thing. It's it's you know it's

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>> I think we're you're trying to >> I'm trying I'm trying to I'm trying to I >> you're trying to take do you're trying to take control over something the planning board has and not us. >> Yeah. >> No, that's what a reason >> I'm trying to condition something such that they have to get the planning

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board. >> They already have to get the planning board. >> So you want to use this house as hostage too. >> Can I ask a question? I'd like to ask a question of the of the board. I just think we're we're holding back for something that we should do. >> To the left of me is a two family.

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Three doors down on the right is like a three family. Across the street, the priest is a three family. Directly two houses down the left is a duplex. Next to that is Hagar. Next to that is

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Badger Funeral Home. Next to that is Nasha Garage. How is this detrimental to the harmony of the community? I think it's going to be better because if I don't do this, this house is going away and

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there's going to be some silly monstrosity there so that I could get my ROI on the property. I want to preserve the history of Littleton. I want to preserve what's there. I want to preserve the pasture. I just want to put

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a house for my wife so she can get around without going up and down these stairs in the house that we live in. I'm not I'm in my opinion, I improved the community when I bought my house in 1986. It was a disaster. I made it a

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beautiful home in Littleton and I want to do the same thing with this and I want to do the same thing overlooking the pasture. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That is my goal. >> Thank you very much. Could you please >> question this? This is >> Are we discussing ourselves now? >> No. What are you asking? I want a sort

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of a poll of the board. >> Sure, I'll do a poll. >> Okay. We specifically It's going to take four out of five to approve this. And Dave, you sound like you might not be willing to approve it. >> It's not It's not about not being willing to prove it. I think it's it's

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as I understand it, and I'm speaking just full disclosure for you. I'm I'm a new I'm a relative newbie at this. I'm just trying to understand but I don't see like this is you're not doing this project tomorrow. There's lots of steps here. There's I don't understand you

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know one more month is not setting this back to understand what the context are and what's being proposed for conditions and it has nothing to do I agree with what you're saying. I just think we do have a responsibility for the whole. And

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if this, you know, if it wasn't the whole thing, I don't understand why this plan with cluster development is in my packet. You know, to me that it is part of it. It was presented to me. I can't, you know, that's what I'm looking at. That's what I'm considering.

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>> Please understand, I I think this house is a candidate for this. >> Yeah. Fine. >> I I do I think it's a candidate for this. I just have some heartburn. So I talked to because of the other buildings and because of the size of the shape of the land and all of that. So I talked to Tom Harrington and he has said please

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he's recommended we ask for a continuence and then >> and what's going to come out of a continuence >> and then he's going to look at it and give us some conditions that he thinks would keep things from happening that we don't want to happen and would put it back in the planning board's lap in such

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a way that I that's what Tom recommended. I I don't ag disagree that the house isn't a good candidate for the two families. >> Well, the question is, are we gonna go approve it or are we gonna have to delay extend the hearing? >> I wanted to extend the hearing. Give Tom a chance.

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>> Well, to your point, the we So, four out of five. I mean, we can poll and see if that's where we're at. >> That's what I'm kind of doing. But you sound like you want to extend continue. She wants to continue. >> I would be in favor of continue. >> So, I don't know if we have the four votes. I didn't ask you. Actually, I'd

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just like to borrow your topic here, Ariel, for a second. You know, [snorts] Tom may say that it we're being that I'm being un you know, it he said he'd like to he told he recommended I ask for continuence and let him put together some conditions

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because special permits can have conditions that would put it back into the planning boards or subdivision or just basically >> I mean a question a question to the owner or to both. I mean, just as like a

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resident, can you appreciate that the idea of four or possibly five residences on one parcel that's owned, you know, by a single person is a little outside of the normal of what we have here in town?

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>> Do you want me to answer that? >> Yeah, please. That's >> No, I don't. I've lived here for 49 years. He's lived here for 40 some odd years. We've seen numerous developments drive right past Hagga Homestead and look at what that abomination is and

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look at the density of that in comparison to what he's proposing. No, I think the key here is we go back to the planning board, we get our subdivision approval, and we come back. I think that's the best approach that we can take. >> I don't even think you need to do that.

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I think >> well you just you can't >> I think you need to give us one month to let Tom Harrington put together his thing and tell and and tell us what we're looking at and what our rights are. >> Madam Chair, we're going to go to the plane board first and then we'll come

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back because I feel as though you're imposing a permit for the open space on this this house. All we've asked for tonight is for the approval of a two family and you keep bringing back in the

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open space and that as John said that has nothing to do with it. That's not what we're asking for. So let us go back to the planning board. Let us get that permitted and then we'll come back. I think that's the right approach. Unless the board feels like they're going to vote for it tonight, that would be

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wonderful. But I don't feel like I feel as though you're mixing apples and oranges here and we don't have a clear vision of this project. >> Perhaps we are. >> I know you are. It's an unusual project. >> I absolutely know you are. >> And it's not an unusual project. It's

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not. We've been at this for over a year. I've done this pro project m much like this. I've done it in conquered. I've done it in Westford. I've done it in Littleton. I I been I've been before ZBAS for non-conforming lots

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specifically focused on that issue and you're bringing in a a a open space and I don't think it's fair. We came here to ask you for a two family and you just you're kicking it down the road because you don't like the fact that you saw a

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building there that is a horse barn and it truly is a horse barn. I welcome any of you to come and look at it and you're implying that it's a a resonance and it's not that's not fair to my client. >> You told Excuse me. >> That's not fair to my client. >> Mr. Catalo, please lower your voice.

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>> Well, >> please in fact >> enough. I accepted the fact you told me it was just a horse barn. I don't I don't disbelieve you in any way, shape, or form. It's very attractive horse barn is

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what I said. It's still a horse barn. You said it had curtains in the windows and a bed in there is what you said. >> I said the pony barn did. >> Okay. All right. Well, if if >> Excuse me. I excuse me, please. >> I don't see your about addressing the

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pony bar. >> It is a single family being converted to a two family, which is not a request we get a lot of. It's it's it's a rare request for us. And on top of that, it has outbuildings that raised issues and

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questions in in my mind. Was it already two or is it possibly two? What it was? So, you know what? I've actually I couldn't reach this all came into my lap this afternoon. I couldn't reach Tom Harrington right away. I ended up

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calling the head of the ZBA of Westford to ask him what he does on these cases and what does Westford do and you know, do they always grant such things? He told me, "No, they don't. They may. They want to know the purpose. They want to know what's why it's being done, what's

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its future is, and what what long-term effect it's going to have on the neighborhood." Tom Harrington did then call me back and his recommendation when I described the situation to him was to give him a chance to look look over the case and make some recommendations maybe

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some conditions that wouldn't stop your client from subdividing or doing whatever the planning board wanted him to do but might protect whatever that or we're concerns about. So that's where I'm at. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm not trying to be

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nasty. I'm not trying to stop him from redoing the house. I think it's a fine plan. I think that's a beautiful plan. And you did a beautiful job on Robinson Road. >> I'm not asking for compliments, ma'am. >> I I understand. I'm just trying to You You were angry and you're accusing me of taking this person.

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>> I'm not angry. I'm just I just want to move this. Okay. That's what I want to happen for my client. We've been at this for a year. What Mr. Long did not say to the board is he has the option to tear this house down and build a brand new house there and he decided against that

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and he has gone through the damage for delay clause with the historical commission. We had numerous meetings with the historical commission. We had a structural engineer go through the property. So we will go to the planning board and we will apply to come back here. I I don't see that we're going to

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move anything. Why don't we just give you a continuence so he doesn't have to go through all the fees and and charges and announcements again? >> It's up to him. >> Well, of course, we're not going to close it and then have it reopen unless we approve it tonight. [sighs]

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>> I just have heartburn about it and want Tom Harrington to weigh in. I have heartburn about >> I hope you explain to him that we're looking at this house period and the other parts of the parcel is out of our preview and it's it's stuck to the planning board.

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>> I I'm just concerned that the way you addressed it he he's looking at the impact of the rest of the development as well that in my mind is irrelevant to this hearing. >> [sighs and gasps] >> I don't think I did. And I read him I

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actually read him verbatim this because so he knew exactly what Littleton zoning bylaw said. Um and you know he knows the zoning board of appeals. Tom Harrington's a very intelligent man who was done a lot of work for Littleton >> but he also acts on what he

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>> and you have you went in there with a certain agenda. The agenda I have is the one I have for every hearing that we have and that is to help people and protect Littleton. >> Yeah. What

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make somebody [snorts] make a motion? >> Well, did they hear from the client that uh that you you want to have an audience? So that's what you >> I guess I guess that's the best bet. But I think Miss Kie was pretty wound up after she left after she showed up

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unannounced on my property and then made all these accusations about different buildings and then left and then made calls. >> I never made any actions. I was very polite and >> now I think we're getting just answer.

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>> Okay. that these built these that these are built residences two residences and I've told you multiple times so >> could we uh do you so you want to continue it so we can >> oh I move that we uh close the meeting

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so we haven't just can you wait for next month >> we need a time and date sir >> well whatever hang on I'll get the find out what time we're meeting month we're meeting next month Thursday. >> They're there Thursday there's Yeah,

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they're all in my 20th of uh of August. Um 7:15 >> 7:15 should be fine. >> One of the difficulties, Mr. Su, is the fact that I believe we're at the planning board.

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Um I I think we're before you again before we go to the planning board. So I I don't >> there's a good chance, Mr. Cataldo, that Tom Harrington is going to say that this is a moot point and we should just grant

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it. It really is a good chance of it. I just want to give him a chance to wait. >> I will just I will just leave you with this, Madam Chair, that he gave me the right to remodel two 12 Robinson Road into a two family. So I'm kind of surprised with

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>> I never told him I didn't want to give him the right to do a two family. I just told him I had concerns. Okay, fair enough. >> And so, so I I personally think it fits the neighborhood as a two family. I think it's fine, but I just I have concerns about the long-term effects

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with other buildings and and I know it's planning board's purview, but he suggested that maybe we could condition it in such a way to make it >> okay. We're now discussing continuation of the hearing, >> right? So, >> would you rather have it in September?

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>> No. If if if you feel comfortable that we my client can get this we can have another visit back in August, we'll pick that date. August 20th. >> That's the next our next scheduled meeting. >> What time? >> Uh 7:15. >> Okay. >> Thank you all for your time tonight.

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>> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We need a vote. >> Okay. >> Um we have a motion. Do we have a second >> for the continuence? >> Yes. >> Yes. Second. >> All those in favor? I >> I

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>> oppose. I'm going to go in the record and say I think this is irrelevant. We We have all the information we need to make a decision. So, I'm opposed to extending, but I would not want to close it. So, can I vote no or should I stay? Is I'm not happy with having to

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>> You should vote yes to the continuence, but you can you've just fussed at me. So, I understand you're fussing, but you you want to vote yes to the continuence. You don't want to make the man not you don't want to close the hearing. >> No. As long as long as the minister vote no against it was it's inappropriate.

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>> Sorry. >> Okay. >> I think part of the problem is Tom only got asked the question this afternoon and any lawyers got is not going to make a decision on the spot over the phone. Okay. >> Going to ask need time to look at it.

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>> Can we moving on with the agenda? You voted. Did you vote the continuence? >> Yes. Okay. Um, >> it's the end of the meeting. >> I think that's it. Does anyone want to make a motion? >> I motion. >> Yeah, >> I'll second it.

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>> Second, Rod. Excuse me. John and Cheryl. I turn my phone back on otherwise I'll >> All in favor of closing of a journey. All in favor? I. Thank you. We're journed.