WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=dctGbblHnek

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: dctGbblHnek):
- 00:00:07: Zoning Board Meeting Call to Order and Introductions
- 00:01:46: Board Member William Bent's Professional Background
- 00:02:34: Board Member David Alman's Land Conservation Expertise
- 00:04:58: Board Member John Su's Surveyor and Engineering History
- 00:07:07: Board Member Cheryl Cowie Haulinger's Littleton Roots
- 00:10:42: Board Member Rod Stewart's Engineering and Management Past
- 00:11:45: Chair Cheryl Gould's Legal Background and Board Observations
- 00:13:09: Discussing Board Alternates and 40B Bylaws Changes
- 00:16:08: Petitioning Reduction of Alternates; Motion and Discussion
- 00:20:30: Alternate's Perspective, Travel, and Participation Expectations
- 00:22:24: Recusal Rules and Special Municipal Employee Status
- 00:25:36: Discussion on Planning Board Meeting Minutes Issue
- 00:30:27: Member Comments: Apple Man, Volunteers, and Payroll Signatories
- 00:32:39: Ratifying Signatories, Election of Officers, and Board Authority
- 00:34:18: Upcoming Affordable Housing Act Issues and ADUs
- 00:41:52: ADUs, Demerging Merged Lots, Old Legislation and Town Water


Part: 1

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trust your memory better than mine. >> Only because I >> I don't know if it has to start. I have to start talking for it to start. >> You're good. >> We're good. Okay. Good evening. Um calling to order the meeting of the

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zoning board of appeals. It's May 21st, 2026. We're at the Littleton Town offices, room 103,37 Shadic Street, Littleton Mass. Um, and the time is 700 p.m. The agenda had uh 6:30 printed, but

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we've been here, some of us, since 6:30, so we're on track. Um, this is an this is a scheduled meeting and it's a agenda meeting, but we do not have any applications before us tonight. We're cleaning up some housekeeping business

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and getting prepared for what I hope will be a fruitful coming season. So, I'm the chair, Cheryl Gould. This is my vice chair. To my left is Cheryl Cowie Haulinger. Uh clerk to my right is Ro uh is John Su

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members. Um David Alman, uh one of our newest members, Rod Stewart, one of us longest members. And we have with us tonight William Bent who's a recent appointee as one of our alternates. So welcome welcome to the

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board and I would like to just go around and let's reiterate what each person's um background is and what you bring to the board for us so we all get to know one another. And do you mind if I start with you Bill since Oh sure you're >> newest. So um so I'm a uh a registered

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professional engineer civil engineering. I work for a large consulting firm for almost 40 years. I just recently retired um this this past December. So I have time to devote to to these types of activities. Um my experiences in kind of

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civil infrastructure in my role previously I ran our northeast operations. So I've done I've been through before a lot of different boards in different towns to present different infrastructure projects over the years. So >> super good. That's a good uh a good

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addition to the building. We we lost a building inspector uh who moved out of town. So that that fills a nice hole for your exper expertise. Thank you, >> David. >> Uh I'm um 20 years in land conservation.

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I'm an executive director for a national um land trust, though it's more of um we don't have boundaries. are more of a regional land trust that doesn't have boundaries. Uh so spent um 10 years working for the trustees of reservations

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here in Massachusetts, five years with the Harvard Conservation Trust doing a variety mostly um you know land protection projects but also a number of other types of subdivisions and uh

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various land related activities and projects as well. spent a number of years sort of tramping around in the forests and fields of Massachusetts trying to find old boundary lines and uh following meats and bounds. So,

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>> um and your input has been very helpful in the times that you've been here so far. So, please continue. And maybe do we who do who marks our boundaries every year? Don't we have once a year we vote for the boundary markers and they have to go to the towns and I'm not sure we

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still do that. I think we still do it. I think it's >> We used to have We used to have >> Yeah, we used to have someone come around and check on the chickens, but they don't do that anymore either. >> Yeah. But I think we should get him involved in that. >> Way back in the day, 14th century, they used to bring children out when they were first originally creating

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boundaries. And in order to make sure that they knew where the intersections were, they would give the child a sort of a um a bit of a beating and that would create the memory. They would that child

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would become the person that could attest to boundaries. >> No kidding. Yes. >> Peas that sounds got a dumb way. >> No kidding. >> Obviously the peasant children, >> my ancestors >> childrens of the village. >> Who knows? That is very interesting. What years?

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>> So this would be, you know, wait 14 1400s. >> Very interesting. >> 1400s. >> Interesting. I I I do I've done some land research, title research, and there are actually dudes that say, you know, uh go across Mrs. Floyd's boundary line

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to the brown cow in the field. >> Very interesting. John, how about your background? >> So, in college for two years, I worked in the summer as a as a uh surveyor. And I do remember, you know, it seemed like

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every week we were doing a boundary line between two people's houses that were fighting. And then there was Oh, it was one place we did where there was a note that said the corner is where the tall camlock used to stand. >> Yeah. >> And you go that spot and there's like 40 hemlocks, >> right?

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>> You know, it's 40 acres of land and you just spend a lot of time gathering all the information you can go and then you basically do your best guess and go to land court and let them sort it out. Um I'm a retired civil engineer also um professional. I spent most about half my

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life as a like professional career as a construction manager. Um so and then the second half as a facilities manager for a large corporation. And so I've been in front of uh planning boards and and conservation committees and whatnot many

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many times. I think the toughest one was to uh getting planning board approval for installing a a small building that was called a disintegrator and trying to explain to them what a disintegrator was because they really thought we were, you know, using atoms or something and

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blowing things up. It was just a paper shredder that shredded things down to half the size of a water. So, it was basically the biggest issue was it was a explosive hazard >> because it was so much dustmate. Um and so I've you know had experience of uh of

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of both been here for what now this is be my uh fifth six fifth year I guess. Um I started in 2018 so is that fifth year. >> Excellent. You're also a longtime Littleton resident. >> Yeah I've lived here since 1980. My wife

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moved here in 57 I think it was. >> Yeah. So, >> and of history, >> but we moved here by accident, so to speak, because we got married and moved away. >> Don't admit that. >> Well, we came back and you know, we looked I was working in Westboro and she was going to school in LOL. So, we

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decided to go from Bolton to Cheler. We're looking for a house and we found one in Littleton we really liked and we've been here ever since. >> Excellent. >> We've had a second house. We've moved once, but >> Excellent. Cheryl, >> my parents moved to Littleton in 1960.

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So, I grew up in Littleton and then um when I became college age in 1977, I couldn't wait to shake the dust of this little town off my feet and went away to college and then after college went and lived in California for

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a while and um eventually moved back to the east coast. I'm a New England girl, it turns out. I am not a California girl. I am not a southern girl. I am a New England girl. I this is this is my comfort. This climate is my comfort

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zone. And um long story short, I ended up moving to Grten with my husband for our first house. And then my parents decided to sell their house and we decided to buy it and moved back to Littleton to raise

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our family. At the time I had a six-year-old, a three-year-old, and I was eight months pregnant. And um it was a really bad time to move. I'm a real estate broker. I know you should not move when you're eight months pregnant. You really should not you should not

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make be making any major decisions when you're eight months pregnant. And no one should tell you that either when you're eight months pregnant. But um since then I have I moved back to Littleton for a lot of reasons. I wanted a place that I could

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not worry about my children playing in the backyard or riding their bikes on the street because I had long-term neighbors and would, you know, feel safe about them. I wanted a place where my children would learn to run towards the police when there's a problem, not away

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from them. I wanted a place where um my kids could be in the Boy Scouts and in the, you know, Girl Scouts and do all the things that are good for kids and a, you know, a little town swim club and

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and be able to rent you do do a swim sailing camp and all those things. And it's been it was been a wonderful town for my family. and I bought my out my mother's real estate business um about that time also. And um so I own a small

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real estate company here in town. I've got four people working for me and it's um it's been a I I love Littleton. And I'll just add that your experience as a real estate broker and with the history

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of properties in Littleton has been very helpful to this board because what we deal with are requests for variances and exemptions from the zoning bylaw which mostly affect allowing people to stay in their homes, age in place, expand as

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children are born and other things like that. So especially on our smaller lots. >> Yeah. I've been a real estate broker for 38 years now >> and so I'm pretty aware of, you know, there are things that are detrimental to neighborhoods and things that aren't. And one of our charges when we create

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variances in special permits is to make sure they are not detrimental to neighborhoods, >> right? >> And don't set precedents that, you know, aren't what our zoning bylaws allow. and don't um you know it's it becomes more

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challenging with the new regulations that the state has been handing down. Um the state is Oh, I don't I guess you >> Yeah. Yeah. Don't don't wax poetic yet. and uh Rod

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and I have degrees in engineering and management and I've worked in those fields in the last 18 years or so up to retirement last year was in project management. Um I was in the planning board back when we did the aquifer overlay districts. That was a lot of fun

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and redid zoning maps. Not as busy as they've been now, but we were busy back then. and uh another I was in a town government study committee that lasted a few months and I've been in town a little while. We bought our first house

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in 72 and we're still in it. We haven't had to move. >> So that that's great. Yeah. >> You have too much junk, you can't move, right? >> Well, you know, we're we're trying to clear out because we probably figure that, you know, we even if we die in the house, another five or 10 years, we're

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probably going to have to do something. So, >> also uh very thoughtful and provocative member of our board. Um when I joined this board, I remember I'm Sher Gold and I am a lawyer in town. Uh basically a real estate lawyer, pretty familiar with

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zoning. I remember growing up as a kid. My we didn't have zoning yet. And my father, who was a judge and very important in the town of Clinton, was trying to decide if zoning was a good thing or a bad thing for communities, you know. But um what I started to say

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about the thoughtful deliberation when I started on this board, which must be at least 30 years ago now, I would have called it the board of no appeal because the members of the board never approved anything. And I can almost say that we've seged into a board of give it away

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for free. >> The pendulum swings to have a healthy balance. And and again, I think that what comes before this board are individuals looking to remain in their homes and use their homes in the most effective way possible to raise their

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families. And that's usually what we see and what we have to balance against the needs of the person or family against the needs of the neighbors and community. And I think you all do a very good job of that. >> 99% of the time their requests are very

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reasonable and not detrimental to any. And you're a fabulous leader. You bring you're a real estate attorney. >> You bring a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, a lot of practical experience to this board. You lead us with an iron fist, which is great. And um so that

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segus into the next discussion, which is a little out of order on the agenda, but when we were uh two things happened for a time, we were very very active. We had two or three um I'd say two or three

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applications a month. >> Yeah. >> And we had a building inspector who believed as I believe that if it's on a gray line, get it before our board so that the neighbors can come out and be heard and express their wishes and our board has some ability to give

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conditions on things that are like I said on the gray line. Um and that happened for a long time. Then it and and while that was happening, by the way, we had an awful lot of interest in people who wanted to be on the board. And as I recall, there was an elderly

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retired gentleman who really wanted a position on one of the boards in town. And so the town voted to increase the alternate numbers on our board uh from two to five. >> Was only two at one point.

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>> Yeah, it was only two at one point. And the other thing that was happening is 40Bs, which was the bylaw that enables or the state statute that enables dense housing and multiple housing without regard to zoning to happen. And the zoning board

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of appeals is in charge of the hearings for 40Bs. And because of that, we had many, many of those hearings. And they were they would span six to eight months. And we needed members in attendance start to finish. So it was a good idea to have five alternates

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because then nine of us, excuse me, four alternates, then five members and four alternates. Nine of us would be hearing start to finish and we were likely to end up with a five member board that was there the whole time. Since that time,

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two things have happened. One is that the bylaws have changed radically so that many of what we used to see is now being presented to the planning board as part of a larger subdivision approval or a new statute

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that allows let's say um I think the newest one we're going to see is accessory dwelling units and that statute or that bylaw is going to give uh waiver and exemption authority to the planning board rather than to the zoning board. So our responsibilities have been

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shrinking. And in addition to that, we had a subsequent building inspector um who wanted to take control over everything and issue his decision as done. And so that didn't come before our board. 40B's have died down completely.

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We don't have 40Bs anymore. And people are not so willing to donate their time and volunteer their energies. Thank you both very much for your willingness to do that. But we have been short of our alternates um for at least as I can recall three or

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four years now and short of applicants to become alternates. So one of the things on the agenda tonight was my request for this board to take a vote as to whether or not we will petition the selectmen to bring us back to a two alternate board. And part of that is

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when we have hearings, even if you're an alternate, we like everybody to weigh in. We like to hear everybody's opinion and while you may not be allowed to vote because you're an alternate, you're certainly welcome to voice your opinion and it's always weigh and heard with

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nine that becomes unwieldy especially since we have fewer and fewer applications and they're less and less intense. So with this board's permission I asked town council how to do this. She thinks our board needs to vote to authorize a letter to the selectman and

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she thinks it would be a no-brainer because if we find two is too few, we can always go back and ask them to increase it again. It's not a town meeting vote. So, the first thing I would like to do is have somebody make a motion that we can petition the selectman to bring us back to a two

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alternate >> select board. Select board. >> What are we at now? >> We're four. >> We're four. I make a motion that we petition the select board to reduce the number of alternates we require from four to two >> and I need a second to that motion.

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>> I'll second it. >> We need to do that even though we just stopped looking for people with two. >> Well, the thing says >> have the flexibility. >> If online it shows that there are four available >> and they go to the select board and they ask someone goes select board and ask to

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be they just and select boards. Okay, you can do it. You don't have a choice. just shows up. >> But you don't have to. >> So if you want to reduce the number to make it a little less a little more wheieldly so to speak, then you need to go and change that number. >> When there are when there are nine, we have had nine sitting up here. And when

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there are nine of us sitting up here, it's a little unwieldly. >> When was the last time the board or the committee had nine? >> Probably two years ago. >> Um I think it's more than that. I think it's three or four or more. And I'm

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trying to remember one of the When John Fields was here, we had nine. >> And >> but I don't know if we had nine appointments. >> I think we had nine. I think we had three. >> We did. >> I think it was when um Patrick Joyce was still here is the last time we had nine.

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Honestly, I think we had eight. I I could be wrong. >> Okay. >> But but the point the point is even with the 40Bs, there were a lot of decisions that needed to be made with the 40Bs.

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um like architectural design and um numbers of units first, last and in between and how many affordables do you build before the affordable how many affordables before the market once and with nine people and nine pieces of

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input to those decisions. It it's an all night meeting and it may not be necessary. So on a 40B it might be, but whether somebody can put a garage on the side of their house might not take nine opinions. And I like the two alternate position

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because then the alternates can see a path to permanent membership sooner than if there's four alternates >> and they're all vying for a position to be the next permanent. There has been cases where you know one of the permanent members it has to recluse

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themselves because you know they live too close to the project or some other reason that they you know the person therefore they don't feel right. >> I was an alternate for five years. >> I was an alternate for probably 10. Yeah. >> Um and I've been on the board now for

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another 12 or 13 as a full member. >> Anyway, I I called for the vote and the motion. I mean I called for the motion and the second. We didn't have discussion. Do you want to input anything to that idea? No. I mean your question is just just curious. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. >> We all set then. Can I call for a vote? We have a motion and seconded to reduce down to two alternates again. >> I >> and your input. Welcome. You're not able to vote yet because we have five. Okay.

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Did you get signed in? >> I did. >> He did. He swam. >> The one thing I guess that I would add in relation to this is I'm not retired yet and I do have I don't travel a lot. I have quite a bit of flexibility, but I do travel some. So, I'm grateful for alternates and it's not uh inconceivable

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that I'll miss meetings. >> And on that score, alternates are more likely to come knowing that they're that important. >> Yeah. and and that's exactly when we need them because you've been very good about letting us know when you can and

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can't come. But the first the first meeting I remember we're knocking on your door saying help. >> I scared I scared the dickens out of your wife. >> That's a communication breakdown. >> It happens. >> If we know ahead of time that you're not going to be here so we can actually >> call the alternates and say, "Hey,

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>> please be there. >> We have an opening tonight, so please show up." >> The alternates will always get noticed. And the admin is usually good about saying if you can't make a meeting, let the admin know so she can reach out to the office. >> And I will say that my travel is scheduled. It's not like I'm not on call

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to go to an emergency or something. So no, >> ahead of I know with plenty of notice, >> but for Go ahead. >> I just question. So was the expectation I would come to the meetings as >> Oh yeah, we want the alternates at every meeting. >> We ask you to to get involved and help

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us make a decision. Okay. >> And if there's only four of us and there's two alternates and we have more than one case, you know, you one person will be on one case and the person other will be on the other case so that everybody gets a chance to >> and even if you're not on a case, we want your opinion. >> Okay?

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>> And so may maybe you can't vote, but your opinion is valued. >> And on that score, I don't think I need to educate anybody here. You're all very educated and you've all been in the business. But on that score, you know that if you are in a butter or have a financial interest in the outcome of a

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matter, you can't sit on the case. So, it's not it's not often, but it's not infrequent that because I'm a real estate attorney and she's a real estate broker, one or the other of us might have a financial interest in the outcome of a matter because we're dealing with

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that person as a client in another capacity. and or andor like the Tahan Road project that was last week. You're >> in a butter. >> I'm in a I'm a director of butter. >> So, I had to stand out. >> I was in a butter because I'm the the trustee of somebody else's someone's

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trust that the house was on >> something. Yeah. Yeah. So, you never know. I mean, and we often don't even know in advance. >> I had to recuse myself once, but I don't remember why. >> Because you were >> I know. I know. I've recused. Oh, stop it. >> Okay. I know I've recused myself because

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they were a client. There's >> there's also, isn't it true though? I mean, there's sometime you have to recuse, but there's also you can recuse just >> from the perception, right? I mean, you could choose or you can choose to recuse from any matter.

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>> Not not if it leaves us short. Um, >> we got an alternate now. >> I know. But say say I didn't there was a case where neither Sher or I wanted to be on it. Now, now we don't we're now you're now you're a fourman board and many of the decisions especially on

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variances require four votes or positive votes and so that suddenly you're in a position where they cannot have a negative and that's not very fair to the applicant. So if >> if it leaves us short it actually says

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in the rules you cannot >> just for the heck of it recuseed. Except David's right. If you may not be in a B or have a financial interest if it if you think that there's an appearance >> of a conflict explain it away though you can say ahead of time

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>> or you may not >> I know this person. >> Absolutely. >> But you may not want to >> and and on that score in a small town like this we all know everybody. I'm not going to recuse just because you were a client in my office in another capacity. It has nothing to do with this decision.

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I don't have to. But that's um >> well there are special rules for the ZBA that aren't necessarily true for don't we have a special >> Yeah, that's probably an important thing to say. We are special we are designated and voted to be special municipal

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employees. As a special municipal employee, you and I can appear before any other board in town except the CBA. That's what our status gives us. So especially for me for instance I can represent a client before the planning

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board but I can't bring that client here to this board >> and I don't know that it'll apply >> and I can represent a client at the board of health >> right it might it might affect you if you're doing any design work or architectural work or something like that

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>> I'm fully retired now >> fully retired okay all right just in passing the next thing I wanted to say welcoming and appointing new alternate Well, we already did that. There's another fellow I think we're going to see. I don't think he got

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appointed or sworn in yet, but I think he's he said he was coming, but I think uh he decided without being sworn in, he wouldn't come yet. Um the other thing I wanted to raise, Cheryl, I apologize to you.

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These minutes were circulated on the meeting packet that was sent out. I hadn't read them because when I read the beginning, I realized it was a planning board meeting. So, I want to talk about that for a minute. Did you get them? >> I did not attend the planning board meeting, though.

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>> So, you can't really vote on it anyway. >> I mean, I get them. >> Yep. >> And you read them? >> I have not had a chance to read them in detail and I already found a couple changes I want. >> Stop a minute because that's what I want to discuss and Rod brought it to my attention.

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This is not our meeting and I don't think >> it was a joint meeting and it was process meeting. >> It's not a joint meeting. It's a planning board meeting to which the zoning board was entitled and we had to post it as a posted ZBA meeting because

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there were going to be more than three of us there. It is not a joint meeting. We weren't conducting the meeting and we have no say in what the minutes of that meeting look like. That was the planning board's decision to vote or not

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vote the minutes of that meeting. >> And have they already accepted them? >> We I don't know. And and that's up to the planning board to decide. I don't think we as attendees have a right to change the reflection of minutes that the planning board's admin >> I don't know. It was posted I disagree

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with you. I think it was posted as a joint meeting. The minutes are coming from Sophia. Our at our our >> She's She's new to the She's new to the job. She's new to the position and she's new. >> So, I'd like to ask Daryl Baker, the chair of planning board, his take on it.

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>> He's the chair now, >> isn't he? >> No, it wasn't before. Not in that meeting. >> He's not voted the chair yet. Jeff is still the chair. >> Jeff was the chair. >> Is Jeff still the chair? I thought that just changed. And it's not it's not up to the chair of the planning board

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whether the zoning board has any right or ability to um create minutes for a meeting they didn't conduct. We were there as guests. It's the same as it's the same as when the ZBA was hearing the affordable housing

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matter on Hadawan Road. They posted the meeting for the select men to attend because they were >> You mean the housing authority? >> The housing authority to attend. The housing authority did not make minutes of that meeting. We did. And and I am I'm a little bit adamant that we not

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start setting a precedent for making minutes of a meeting in which we were invited as guests. It wasn't our meeting. >> It was posted as a joint meeting. I think you're missed to their meeting essentially. And what we don't want if we approve these and

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these are unique to us then we're suddenly have two different sets of meetings for the same subject >> for the same meeting >> and I think that could be a conflict. >> Okay. >> Good point. >> All right. >> So we're not voting on these. >> I don't think we should vote on these. I

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wouldn't have a problem if they if they went unvoted into whatever you know um Freedom of Information Act stuff people want. But I don't want to vote on them. Okay. >> I think if we saw >> there are some mistakes on them. So, I

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was going to some corrections I'd like to make, but >> if we see some mistakes that are related to us, we should let the planning board know. >> We should maybe let the planning board know. Okay. Maybe >> if they say you said something you didn't say, then that'd be something you should >> Well, there's certainly a couple of things I said that I think were misinterpreted. So I would I I would

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like to I mean it's small corrections but you know just corrections and punctuation >> as let's eat grandma as oppo let's eat comma grandma as opposed to let's eat grandma. Yeah. >> You know that kind of punctuation >> then I think you bring that to the

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planning board >> and you know and >> but they probably approved it about four months ago. So unless it's really very important I would just let it go. I I probably will, but I may talk to members of the planning board and see where they're at on it.

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>> And it does say attended a joint meeting with the Littleton Planning Board. It doesn't say conducted >> and the meetings are only about the part where we were there. >> Yeah. And then the way it says attended and then others in attendance is also in attendance. It puts us up front and we

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work. >> We've we've had several meetings or the selectmen have se had several meetings with us in attendance and we have never ever signed a set of minutes on someone else's meeting. >> All right. >> So, thank you. >> Now, I won't argue with you anymore. >> That might be it. I told I told Damon

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he's only got half an hour. >> Um I don't I don't think I have mail received by the board and we didn't talk about member comments. Does anyone want to comment on anything that's happening in town that you want to bring to our attention? Apple Band's coming up. >> I knew that. I knew that was a tip of

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her tongue. >> Apple man's coming up. The Rotary Littleton Rotary Club made $40,000 on Apple Man last year and 95% of it has gone to well, let's put it this way. 80% of it

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has gone to needs directly in this town. Another 10 to 15% of it has gone to needs in the greater communities such as Loaves and Fishes and the um homeless shelter in l and there's a place in Fitsburg um that has gone there and

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another five% of it about has gone for national international aid. Um, but you know, we do everything from sponsor $500 for the Boy Scout Eagle project to we've helped with the um, one year we

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helped gave $10,000 to the the um, what's it called? The trust that helps seniors in trouble with their >> Littleton Scholarship Trust. >> We always No, we always have a Thanksgiving breakfast for the Littleton Scholarship Trust and we raise about $3,000 for them there. That's a targeted

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fundraiser where everything goes to Littleton Scholarship Trust. >> I think it's the Littleton Housing Trust. >> But I guess we're not going to have a football team next year. >> I think that's what I heard. There's no football team next year. So having a Thanksgiving football breakfast is going

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to be a challenge. I think we'd have to do something else for scholarship trust. >> Anybody Anybody else me member comments? One more thing I did forget. Any other >> We need volunteers. >> Member comments. The other thing I forgot this we've

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always voted um signitories to the payroll bills. So it's always been myself I think you John because you're the clerk and I think you cuz you're the vice. >> Sure. >> So we just need a ratification of that that if there are bills to be paid any

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one of the three of us can sign them. >> So moved. >> So moved. Second. All in favor? >> I Okay. I've never been asked to actually sign anything >> because I've John's always been around when I'm out of town. I think it's

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>> I don't know that we ever sign anything anyway. We don't have any bills to pay. We have to we have the publication bills when there's a hearing and we haven't had a hearing in so long we haven't had publication bills. Um and we probably have to have election of officers coming

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up. But I was thinking of that tonight and thought we should probably wait till we have a couple of real meetings under our belt. Um so everybody can see the board in action before you make a vote as to who you want to be in charge and

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the officers. Um the other thing is if anybody wants any information or toutelage on what we do, basically this board has authority to um issue special permits if the zoning bylaw grants us

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that right. And then we have the authority to give variances which would be exceptions to the zoning bylaw. and we have to find certain criteria are met to give the variances. We also have the right to hear cases

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involving an appeal of a zoning enforcement officer. So if Henry were to make a decision that a candidate or an applicant didn't like, they can appeal his decision to this board. Henry Fontaine being the building commissioner. >> And that's happened a few times. >> Yeah. What's happened in the is a

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neighbor complains about the noise or construction going on next door. Henry goes out finds that there is or isn't and if the one of the parties doesn't like his decision, they can come to us and appeal. >> I suspect and everybody should put this

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on their radar. We talked about it a couple minutes meetings ago. I suspect that's what's going to come up hot next are two items that are important. One is that Governor Healey has enacted something called the affordable housing

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act. We were having an academic discussion about this recently, you and I. Um, the Affordable Housing Act does two things to zoning that I think are significant. One is it allows for ADUs to be built almost as of right if

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certain criteria are met. And an ADU is an accessory dwelling unit. And I am hearing with my ear to the railroad tracks that developers are trying to work around the the the limitations of building in this

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environment to build ADUs as a matter of right and then sell the principal unit separate from the ADU unit. So I think that is coming up as a hot ticket item. Littleton has got to

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enact some zoning by law to address whether or not the ADU can be separated, if you will, from its principal dwelling. In my mind, accessory dwelling means you have to have a principal to be an accessory, too. >> But there are many who oppose me and say

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an accessory dwelling unit should be able to be separately sold. >> Our town attorney appinded that is not accessory if it is owned separately. But so stay with me for a minute.

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On the other hand, I'm seeing in other states and in my with my own children even, you build an accessory dwelling unit on your property because you're trying to augment your income or do a stay in place elder unit that the elders can

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stay in while the young families grow their families in in the main house or whatever. And now after everyone's aging out or the oldsters pass, you've got this extra unit on a lot and what do people do with that to realize their equity out of the having built this lot.

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So I think these are coming up as issues that need to be resolved. I think planning board will have hearings on it and I think we should think about weighing in on it because it's something in the past our board has had to give a special permit for. I think they're

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going to take away our special permit rights. And I'd like everybody to give some thought as to what we were able to protect when it was within our jurisdiction and what we might be able to influence the planning board to continue to try to protect if

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it goes out of our jurisdiction and they make it into a bylaw. The other one that's coming down the pike, and I just started looking at this, is the same affordable housing act has a doctrine of demerging merged lots. The doctrine of

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merges says this. I own a house on less than the current zoning bylaw acre that's required. I own this house on 3/4 of an acre. And all of a sudden, this lot comes up for sale beside me. It may be a vacant lot. It may be one of the lake area lots that's a bunch of 20 by

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100s and I and I buy that in the same name. The doctrine of merger says I've just merged the two because I put them in the same ownership and this one wasn't conforming, but I just added enough property to make it conforming. So now it's merged and these two lots

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can never be separated again. Mara Healey's recent legislation says you can demerge these from now on as long as the extra lot has 10,000 square ft 75 ft of

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frontage I think was the frontage requirement and the unit is 1,800 square ft or less containing three bedrooms. The thought being that people who have these merge lots will want to unmerge them and create uh a separate buildable lot for for

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equity, for value, for I don't know what's happened with me is that there's a bunch of these that don't quite make the marily 10,000 square ft, but the state legislation says 5,000 square ft works. So, I think what's going to come

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down the pike next is whether or not we're going to adopt the Marahili legislation that says 10,000 and no more no change. I mean, no, you can't afford this the 5,000 anymore. Or if we want to

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adopt a bylaw that says we've always allowed the 5,000, we've never demerged, but if they haven't been merged, we've always allowed the 5,000 foot pre-existing non-conforming lot to be built on. So, let me clarify that just slightly.

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>> If there's a lot standing by itself and if it's 5,000 square ft or more and has at least 50 ft of frontage, then by state law, it can be a building lot. Even though it doesn't meet any of the setbacks, even if you can't you don't suddenly you don't have to meet the 15t

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setbacks on the sides, the front or back setbacks. You can build a house very close to the property lines of the house ignoring the setbacks because it is a grandfathered lot. >> And that's that's the state regulation >> pre-existing

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>> pre-existing. Now the new legislation from the state says that you can demerge lots that have been merged, but that in de merging them requires them to be 10,000 square feet and have at least 75 ft of frontage. So the question is, do

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we allow demerging and go with the old state guidelines or do we go with gee, she's giving people a a bone here, this makes sense because a 5,000 square foot lot is very small. So you have to you

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have to weigh the options and and and still it doesn't matter if it's pre-existing all by itself in a different ownership. It is and it's 5,000 square ft and 50 ft of frontage. It is a building lot. >> It still works, but >> but you have to get a septic on it too near Littleton.

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>> So, it's just something >> and it will. So, if you don't have town water in the area, you're >> most but most of Littleton has town water now. >> So, just two things I think are going to be items that will come up whether it comes before us or not, we should be involved in it because that's exactly

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what we do is decide whether you're going to give exemptions to the zoning bylaw. And my thought on on the the example I just gave was if the the if the theory is we want to

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create more housing and if 5,000 square ft on a nonmerged lot is acceptable to the state then why does the de merger have to restrict itself to a 10,000 foot lot? The intent is still to create

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housing. De merger is intended to create housing. I think she was trying to s they were trying to soften it for the towns. >> Yeah, I know. I'm just thinking >> it's just a curious thing because I mean I've certainly sold >> lots that were tiny >> and to builders that then built

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>> big houses on them. >> Anyway, so that's all the news that's fit to print for tonight. Thank you all for coming. >> Just a quick question. Anybody watching this old house this year, this episode? >> No. No, they're building an ADU in

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Walpole and they've also highlighted a couple others around. So, it's it's interesting the ADU they're putting on this huge >> Littleton voted several years ago, 5 10 years ago to allow ADUs as by rights. We just we we vote we were pioneers at the

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time. We were the first town in Massachusetts to allow it by right and ADU, but we restricted it to to um and we allowed 12,000 square ft, but it had to be less than it's >> 1,200 square feet. >> 12200. It had to be 1,200 square feet. Thank you. It had to be um physically

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connected. It couldn't be a separate building. >> No, it could be a separate building. >> No. >> Yeah. No, that one could be separate. >> Before that, we had one that >> had to be behind the house. Oh. Had to behind the primary >> hidden from here. Well, it could be here. It could be on the side, but it's

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draw and then be behind that front. >> Right. And so, you know, it's it's it's >> ads are enterain. >> I got a question about what you're suggesting. Are you saying that we as a board should come up with a position and

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submit that to the planning board? >> No, I think each of us individually should be >> as residents. as residents or as CBA members invited to a planning board hearing on the matter should be there to input what we know from experience here. >> Okay.

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>> Um >> you should also realize that we aren't allowed to give variances on new construction. It's it we're not allowed to do that. Um variances are for problems that are not created by the applicant.

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>> That's generally true. That's not just that's just not a total blanket statement, but that's generally true. >> Normally, we won't we have a few few times people have come before us where they have built something like too close to the street and now they can't get their steps in and they're asking for help and we've kind of laughed at them.

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But >> well, we've made people move their houses. >> Well, now we've done things that made that solved the problem, but wasn't quite the way they wanted to solve it. But you're right. We if if you have a if you own a house that's got a small lot

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and something comes up and you have to solve a problem like you got your aging in place and you need a garage now, we help. But we don't let somebody come in building a brand new house and decide he just wants to build it close to the property line >> that we're not going to give you approval for

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>> anyway. building comes in on its own merit and with its own set of facts and we listen to them and then we weigh them against the >> uh the protection of the town and the zoning bylaw against the need of an

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individual. So >> and the advantage >> I still entertain a motion to close. >> Anybody want to close the >> motion close? >> Second, please. All those in favor I >> I promised a half an hour meeting so