okay sorry about the delay we had a few extra minute meeting back there so I apologize about the delay uh I am going to read our Sunshine statement of compliance which we read at the beginning of every meeting I see we have a lot of new faces
here so just everybody this this gets read uh at the beginning of every meeting this meeting is being held in accordance with the open Public's meeting act an adequate notice of the meeting has been provided as required by law specifically the annual notice was emailed to the West s tribun and Star Ledger on January 3rd 2025 and a 48 hour
notice was emailed to the same Publications on February 11th 2025 the agenda and resolutions for the meeting are available on Livingston nj.org certain portions of this meeting may be clo may be closed to the public for the purpose of personnel and or other matters is outlined in the Sunshine Law
decisions made and or discussed and close sessions will be made known to the public at a later time notice to members of the governing body and Township staff any use of electronic devices during this meeting shall be used solely for the purpose of Township business and any Communications are subject to the open
public record act to the extent possible of this meeting's Township of Livingston council meeting will be live streamed via Facebook at www.fb.com Livingston Township NJ questions or comments will be accepted by emailing by emailing live comments
Livingston nj.org by 4M on the day of the meeting and shared with the township council meeting Township Council before the meeting each speaker should follow the rules of order in Livingston code 2-1 15.13 roll call please council member Anthony
here bani here Viera present Deputy Mayor Klein here mayor Minard I am here uh we are first going to rise for a moment of silence um at this meeting this evening at this uh at this meeting while we also remember all the victims of uh
senseless violence uh wildfires and unrests throughout the world we also are going to take a second to remember Amy Hyler who's been a who was a very long-term um Livingston Library employee and a friend to so many in Livingston
who passed away this past week thank you we are have a few we have a few things on the agenda for this evening the first one I do see Eileen Fishman from the county of Essex so Eileen welcome thank you for being with us this evening and we look forward to hearing what you have
to say some there's a mic somewhere yes on yes okay great thanks good evening everyone on behalf of Joseph Devan chenzo County exac I'm the liaison to the Livingston Council uh happy to be
here this evening and um the first thing I want to say is that um in April um this month we just opened up the um entries for Essex County division of Senior Services legacies writing
contract contest which is for seniors or residents age 60 and older um to tell their stories or the memories certain things that may have happened in their family um or or historical things for their families um to write a uh a story
about it and then enter it and the deadline line is April 16th and um it's a it's always been very interesting the stories have been very exciting and and it's a it's a fun afternoon for the seniors um Cherry Blossom Festival
starts Saturday April 5th at branchbrook Park with a bike race and ends on Sunday 13th April 13th um with the bloom Fest the one M uh walk run is Saturday April
12th starts at 9:00 a.m. admission is free also branchbrook park at the presedential concert Grove um household hazardous waste recycling day is May 3rd Saturday from
8:30 to 4: at Bradford Avenue in Cedar par in Cedar Grove not Cedar Park Cedar Grove um Essex County Public Works building and the two weeks later on May 17th for computer and electronics 9-3 uh
same address same place and that's it for me I always to say thank you very much thank you all right so moving on we have two uh presentations and a one presentation and a proclamation uh I first of all
would like to recognize we have fangang from the board of education so thank you for being here this evening and thank you uh you and councilman Anthony uh brought this brought the girls fencing team uh state Champs to our attention so thank you both uh for bringing that it's we look forward to uh celebrating my son
was a saber okay all right but I don't think your son qualified on this team not this good not this good congratulations so it is our pleasure um so I know that a state championship in any sport uh my son was a uh was a goal
the Livingston high school for many years so I know that a state champion in any sport is very very difficult to achieve and more so being the very first state championship in the history of the Livingston high school girls fencing
team um so we all here congratulate all of you we congratulate all of your parents who have spent uh many hours taking you to practices to tryouts um to uh lessons um getting there so I think
that uh I think all the offensers all the girls certainly owe a major round of thank you to their parents for everything that they've done for all the years getting you to this accomplishment uh and to their coaches and to the captains as well congratulations to all of you this is something that I know uh
you will take with you when you graduate the high school when you go on to college um and when you're fortunate enough to raise kids of your own that you'll remember these I know it t I know it sounds like a long time away from now I get all that but uh trust me but trust me I know that you'll be talking about
your matches is 20 and 30 years ago down the road so uh we congratulate all of you uh we're very pleased to have you all here um we all have we have a citations that I will read in a second and then we have individual certificates as well for all the um team members so
uh the citation reads as follows the citation uh the mayor and members of the Livingston Township Council are police to honor the Livingston high school girls fencing team 2025 NJ State inter intercol FC Athletic Association team
state champions we thank them for the pride they bring to our community by winning the first state championship in the LHS girls fencing history with a perfect 1 15 season and it goes on to mention each one of the girls names and we will call them out individually so I'm not going to read them here uh as
well uh and it also mentions the coaches the co- coaches the captains everybody so congratulations to everybody yeah we we come up before we call up individually um are the are the coaches here or the co-eds would they like to say a few words
before we give out the certificates to all the girls I I know I put you on the spot but I figured you if you handled uh if you handled winning a state championship you can do this okay please come up there's a mic up here one of you like to talk about the girls the season anything
you'd like to tell us about the team please come on this side please come in on this side there's a mic right there and and anything you'd like to to tell us and we we happy to to to listen and learn um so congratulations to the girls team
uh you guys worked really hard for this you've deserved this right we've wanted this for a very long time a lot of you were here you know two years ago when we were fighting for list last year when we were fighting for this and this year we finally got it right so congratulations to all of you thank you so much for making our coaching jobs so easy like we
we appreciate how hard you work on your own U and how hard you work outside of school at at school right at practices um every day you show up it means a lot for the team and all of this brings us to um uh the end result which was the
best we could possibly do this season which was win the SE title so you guys earned it all right thank you so much for doing your best and you know working on everything that we've um working towards everything that we wanted for the last like two three four
years right okay especially the seniors that have been here for four years so you know thank you so much for being such a great team look there you go you can start off the more I give out the last I have to worry about how many do I need here whatever read the hold on one second let me just
hold on one second so as we uh as we say your name please come on up and we'd like to present you with one of the certificates and then stay up here right away for yeah stay up here uh with everyone we'll get a nice uh group photo um so I'm starting here with uh first on our list is Valentina
Zen congratulations okay congratulations next uh she's the captain okay great uh anara nyak an an thank telling me after doesn't help thank you an all right good
um Sophia Zen congratul uh and Ana Gupta congratulations good congratulations I have uh Megan Rose R congratulations I have Charlotte Yang congratulations conratulations Maya
Long congratulations congratulations and Mela chin all right Z okay uh Grace Wang congratulations Grace go all right lot lot going
on the fencer uh Kayla Fang and she's a captain as well any we have kin Kang congratulations congratulations then we have uh Caroline Lee and finally in my hand is uh Julia
Chang coaches Coes to Siri next is uh Siri Patel congratulations congratulations do congratulations you want to do the coaches you want music no go okay you
didn't get we're up to uh as well as the coaches uh Janette uh n there you are hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on you want you get this one instead as the coach all right you got there you
go there you go uh co-head uh Greg poio not here okay so we'll hold that yeah can we awesome uh next we have Andrew
Richardson there you go you got the congratulations congratulations we have Christy Hernandez she here there you are con congratulations congratulations job and Alice
up congratul congratulations that was the last one just I just have to say one thing because we've done this for a few teams and a few other events this is the first time that the entire team showed up to get their to get their Awards so
so congratulations there's always one or two that are missing or couldn't make it so thank you all of you and you brought your State uh your state champion with you so that's your trophy with you so that's great uh so congratulations I think and you wore green so I think if I think if the girls and the coaches will line up here for a picture we'll go up
top and we'll take ah you guys can hold that all right all right so why don't you guys why don't you guys line up here holding that and then we'll stand up there for the picture all right K come now we for
I guess now it's time for homework you guys all have homework all right right so moving on on the agenda we now have a presentation on awareness program for Livingston residents on J of artificial AI I'm going to let councilman bhutani
introduce this please thank you mayor uh so this is exactly how you know we engage uh with lots of abilities and capabilities in our town um so shrini Shiva you can come over here uh
essentially couple of gentlemen uh from our community our residents reached out and said there's a lot of uh conversation around artificial intelligence we all hear that and we all
uh talk about it but you know do we know and uh will it be benefiting our residents if we talk about it and they are the experts in the sense that they are professionals working in that field I said this will be fantastic so we
ended up having um the uh our senior Youth and Le and service um at the community center they met with them and uh the next thing we now know is uh there is an awareness
program I think it'll be very beneficial so please take advantage of it but I won't take any any thunder away from you gentlemen uh so please carry on thank you uh thank you Mr bani uh good evening
mayor and and thanks to the entire Town Council uh thanks for giving us this opportunity to present this uh uh short uh introduction to the program um I'm shini salandra uh living in the town for a little over 10 years uh I'm into
technology program management space um in one of the Wall Street firms um as uh most of us hear that uh AI artificial intelligence is shaping up uh across various Industries
education um so are we all prepared that's what it is so um it goes without saying that communities who learn everything early on will Thrive but those do not will
fall behind with that in mind uh myself uh my partner Shiva and then uh we have another um friend he's also in technology today he's not here uh Rakesh with three um got together over summer and said okay how can we prepare our
community for this upcoming uh um AI uh future driven um uh future uh with the AI then that's when um we said like we need to create some free uh AI literacy program uh free education series uh but
how can we make that happen uh without partnering with a Township without partnering or collaborating with the town ship we cannot have a community outreach that's when we approached uh our councilman Mr bani and uh he uh
honored our request uh we went over the what why and how of the program uh he really appreciated it uh and uh he guided us through all the next steps um at that point uh we realized that you know we definitely need um a nonprofit
uh in order to Foster collaboration with the township uh and also uh build the trust in the community uh and also more so like we can uh remove any uh Financial barriers so with that uh we formed a nonprofit called gen AI for
Community uh in short we call it as guom uh and under that uh again collaborating with the township uh we have designed uh uh awareness series which is a six um session series
starting March 24th right here in the town um hopefully you all will attend and then make the best out of it so once again I thank Mr btan for giving us this opportunity and making it real of what it was 6 months ago and uh thanks a lot
and with that uh I want to hand it over to Shiva to give the highlights of the series thank you so much good evening everyone um thank you Mr Mayor Mr bani and the entire Council um here we are really excited about the
opportunity to collaborate with the township to bring this Ai and generative AI awareness program we aim to provide information about the latest developments so
everybody can understand what it is how is it going to impact them and use this superpower to do something very successful so as a community we'll be more successful if you start understanding and start preparing for it
ahead of time I want to talk about three things one is what is the program structure going to be number two is really understanding how are we engaging the local industry experts and the third
thing is our gratitude to other volunteers so let's let's just get into the program we have a series of six sessions we will start off with understanding the foundations of generate to AI this is where we
introduce large language models like Chad GPT gini and deep seek sure no problem yeah just we'll have more audience which is perfectly
fine yeah just one Justin thank you thank you Justin always a proponent of open government thank you somebody else you got it yeah just jumping into session number one where we also want to think about
the advancements that are happening in that space where we are seeing more thinking and reasoning models that are coming up that are far more advanced far more capable building on that knowledge we start thinking about more advanced AI
in our session number two where we discuss agentic AI so we here we have agents that are more autonomous that they can complete the task given some memory and given some access to tools
they could actually do a lot of work on behalf of humans so we imagine a world where every human will have multiple agents working for them and building on that foundational and advanced knowledge we then start
thinking about how does this this technology impact education what does it mean for young people how should they think about leveraging the tools as part of their education in a responsible way
and then we next we move into session number four where we think about how what kind of roles kids will take in the future right what should they be preparing for what is the impact going to be and all we see that a lot of jobs will have tasks that are going to be
automated and we'll also see a lot more jobs coming up new types of jobs that we don't even know what they should be called at the moment so this will help us prepare professionals and students be ready for the AI that is coming up in the
future and with that information we go to the next one where we think about how can local businesses leverage AI to their advantage how do they create AI based services and products for other consumers to leverage how can they
compete in the marketplace where more and more more businesses are adopting this AI uh and AI agents then last not not not not last but not the least we come to ethics and governance in AI we understand that AI
can be biased we want to make sure AI is fair it is accountable and it is trusted how do we do that what kind of governance should be around it I'm sure a lot of you have heard about deep fakes and misinformation how do we prevent
that and coming to my second topic which is like how are we engaging the local community our community is Rich and very talented we have a lot of Industry experts so we are engaging them bringing them to be in panels across this
different sessions so it is more not us like just talking to people it's but getting the people together so we collectively learn and improve our lives the last thing we not just not alone this community has you know great people
some of them have come forward to volunteer for this good cause so we want to thank them we just want to say it's not just us there are you know a few more team members and again thank you for giving us this opportunity to make
it more impactful reach more people through this exciting partnership you thank you thank you very much any questions comments from the uh I'm listening to so just to reiterate your first session is
on 24th right okay oh we are going to have a a town uh website where people can register for this these are walk-in sessions as well you do not have to register but it's optional so that way it will help us understand how do we plan for it better
prep thank you very much it was great and we look forward to the other uh presentations as well thank you very much sorry okay moving on can I have a motion for the approval of the minutes pending any corrections on the February 24th
2025 regular and Conference hold on let me finish February 24th 2025 closed number one and 24 2025 closed session number two minutes I'll move the minutes I'll second it all in favor I I okay can I
have a motion to open the meetings to public comments on any agenda items I'll make a motion I'll second all those in favor I I before I begin just for the record I'm sorry Justin I know give me one second sorry
um under the consent agenda resolution um 25 -123 and 25-1 126 will be pulled and not voted on this evening thank
you 12 126 the meeting is now open to and what's your one 126 was pulled and what 126 and 123 hearing for
uh sorry for which one for uh number four 1325 45 Urban Partners that's what you're speaking on I'm sorry for which one Justin 13205 2025 no those are those are for introd
those are for introductions there yeah it's at the bottom here it says introduction hi um Michelle ack um I wanted to just talk about that one um it seems clear to a lot of the
people in this town that you aren't really putting our interest first um we understand that you're not going to ever really leave your spots until you're ready to so why should you listen to the cons constituents on everything
um but I have three kids in the school so I wanted to try and talk to you again for them we've heard your reasoning about why you've been basically rubber stamping all the new developments we understand that your hands are tied in regards to certain State mandates my question now is why are you using a
program designed to keep manufacturing facilities in cities like Newark to further coddle the builders who are already profiting from overloading the infrastructure on the town you're supposed to be serving I know you've had experts with more knowledge than I have explain what
the new developments are going to do to our Public Utilities our schools are already busting our police force is being pulled in multiple directions they have to patrol out ofc control School pickup lines cover posts for crossing guards that have been hit by cars and just keep up with their actual
jobs I have a middle schooler who's a Junior leader Lancer Junior Lancer leader sorry she's in the Jazz Band she's on high honor rooll and she asks me every day if we can leave Livingston she hates how overcrowded the school's already gotten and is that your goal to
have the good kids the ones that our school reputations are built on want to leave our district who are going to move in to all the fancy Apartments when the schools fall because the people who've been living here for years can no longer pay their taxes that you have to raise to cover
the taxes you won't be collecting from the new apartments every town council member who approves the pilot should be ashamed of yourself and know that the constituents are watching and if you're not ashamed of yourself we will be thank you hi Mr Mayor Justin Albert uh a
resident of this community uh two things to pull from the consent agenda please one 25129 uh topology let's have a discussion about that I'm not sure how the decision to higher topology was made
behind closed doors we've gotten so far out on this that you couldn't even cancel this contract if you wanted it's already booked it's really up for next week and I'm not sure why we didn't have a discussion about why we need this charet rather than having direct
engagement of our elected officials by the community so please pull that and let's have a conversation about that one the other one please pull 25128 about 45 uh Partners um when this uh was last introduced we were going to get eight
more million dollar than we were this time around the numbers have changed the date on the application did not change they just changed the numbers without Chang in the date it would be nice to see a red line not sure why that application was not published as part of
the agenda tonight it had to be opra that doesn't make any sense at all the way that we're structuring this the affordable housing and special needs housing really the cost of that is going to be carried by market rate renters especially with respect to special needs
we have no idea who funds that whether that's Section 8 or there's estate programming to fund that but uh there's going to be support report on all sides for uh for pricing there and all the upside goes to the developers that's special needs housing that's a community
obligation we shouldn't be sticking the renters with that bill we have a sherek coming up for the uh Mall property where the community is going to have to opportunity to get together and discuss what responsible development should look like let's not rush this let's get that
information from the charet and let it inform our decision-making process uh as well we must have a five on five coming up soon correct let's engage the uh school board and have them be part of this process so we're not just shooting
in the dark here and we know that we are accurately planning for the units that we are authorizing as well we have no basis to consider the actual pilot we don't know what other Pilots look like we have nothing to compare to there's no data
as well we have nothing to compare the underlying valuation using the proprietary appraisal Systems Inc methodology we have nothing to compare against if they build this and we don't give them a pilot what would the revenue be how does the appreciated value of the
real property how does that get raised how do we value the improvements we need a discussion about that um let's see the the the whole thing is kind of silly because we're not measuring the right numbers we're
measuring certain income into the town but we don't serve the needs of money what's happening is that it's an abusive system where they are profiteering off of this affordable and special needs housing the return on their investment is going to be absolutely incredible and
we can expose that as well we need them up here we need them speaking to us so we can engage them and ask them questions it looks like they're already indebted on this property um we want to know what their tax basis is we're going to have a new governor
coming in in uh January let's not commit for the next 30 Years and overextend ourselves on our Authority let's focus on the here and now we don't need to give this away we're not under duress from anyone let's slow this down so we
can properly develop going forward um I believe that's all thank you very much Mr Mayor thank you any other um comments on agenda items only motion to close public comments on agenda items
only second all those in favor I okay we are up to final hearings um we have two for this evening uh Caroline will you please read 0522 thank you mayor ordinance
5-22 amending chapter 135 filming I have a motion to open the public comment open for uh public um sorry I'll second it all those in favor I okay meeting is now open on comments for ordinance
05-22 seeing none see okay uh motion to close second all those in favor I no roll call isn't that roll call no we have to call the question first call the question motion to ad motion to
adopt I'll make a motion to move second second y roll call please council member Anthony are we there's no question for comments this final reading right we are uh we just did we just did it two seconds comments yeah we just did we open it and we close it no no no that for public but not among us after the
second the mayor can take comments from the council yeah so you can take yeah if the mayor it's com from us yes I apologize I apologize okay so okay so comments before I'm sorry before we comments good thank you I I was just going to say Amen from the public uh as I said uh last
time when we did the first uh sorry when we did the first uh reading of this um I I think this is great for the town uh it puts Livingston uh you know which is a a great place for filming and we've had so many uh films that have been shot here um it just kind of puts us uh forward on
that uh we're putting ourselves out as as a place for production companies and especially considering um all the production that's going to be happening in New Jersey uh coming out of Mammoth um and uh we're putting oursel forward and saying this is a great place to come and to work and to uh show off our our all the different facilities that we
have and I'm excited about this thank you any other comments um I'll just add U I completely agree with uh Deputy Mayor kleene um we have uh Netflix uh coming in State uh I think it's it's a
big move as far as the media and filming and the projection of the communities is concerned there's a lot of content being built around it's good to have uh our beautiful Community our outdoors and our uh our demography to be projected uh
having these kinds of opportunities and our our rules align with it it's really a fabulous thing and uh I know Deputy Mayor Klein was very much um you know uh involved and sort of you know driving it you know details part of it as well so
so great work there any other comments from the council I think it's all been said in there okay uh roll call then please council member Anthony yes bani yes via yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mehard yes all
right will you please read uh Caroline ordinance 0622 thank you ordinance 62025 to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a cap bank I'll make a motion open to public hearing second all those in favor
I okay any comments the meeting is now open uh for comments on 06 2025 heying guys uh Tim Foley resident of of Township um if I'm if I'm mistaken please correct me uh but the last meeting
um uh you guys were talking about uh some new Machinery that the DPW needs is that part of this and budget um the Machinery was in a different separate ordinance okay that's
being adopted yeah yeah okay so this ordinance is solely a procedural that allows us to exceed the cap doesn't mean we're going to exceed the cap allows us to build up a c bank has nothing nothing to do nothing really to do with the new loader that you guys no will tell you
that there was a yeah there was a budget uh hearings last night with the council department heads were there including DPW they explained the need for it the new loader was actually already appropriated in earlier ordinance but a number of the other pieces of equipment uh the council looked favorably upon and we include in the capital budget and
ultimately there'll be an ordinance okay so it really doesn't have yeah nothing to do with this okay thank you motion to close the public comment second all those in favor I I okay someone's got a council member Anthony oh hold on hold on we didn't uh you got
to move it I'll move the ordinance I'll second it okay any comments before we do roll call okay okay roll call please council member Anthony yes bani yes Viera yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mhart yes all right we have a few for
introduction um we'll do 10-22 please ordinance 10-22 adopting a new chapter 267 special events of the Township Code I'll make a motion to approve the ordinance for introduction I'll second okay all those
in uh roll call please council member Anthony yes bani yes viea yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mehard yes and mayor the hearing the public hearing will be on April 7th okay thank you um ordinance 11-22 please
ordinance 11-202 amending and revising Health Department fees I'll move it on first reading second roll call please council member Anthony yes bani yes Vieira yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes
mayor mhart yes and this will also have its public hearing on April 7th okay 12-22 ordinance 12-22 amending chapter 146 food and beverages Article 1
licensing second roll call please council member Anthony yes bani yes Viara yes Deputy Mayor klin yes mayor mhart yes ordinance 13 when is when is 1225 going oh April 7th sorry thank you okay
ordinance 13-22 ordinance 13-22 authorizing Financial agreement and approving long-term tax exemption with 45 Partners Union urban renewal LLC I'll make a motion to approve the ordinance for introduction
a second uh for the record councilman Klein Deputy Mayor Klein recused from this vote roll call please so before we are we voting on introducing or can we have a conversation is that before or after you can have a you can have discussion prior to the vote now okay
now okay now so why don't we have maybe an introduction or um the details behind uh Mar if I can request you to kind of you know describe what goes behind it uh and I I'm respectful of the comments that we we heard here so let's let's
have some some conversation give a background about it and so on yeah certainly so um for those who may not be aware um a a the statute there's a statute in place uh that allows for what's called a long-term tax exemption
uh it's kind of colloquially known as a pilot but that's not really an actual uh legal term that's in the statute uh for areas that have been declared in need of Redevelopment it's a Redevelopment tool uh that local governing bodies can utilize to facilitate the Redevelopment
of properties uh that are deemed to be in need of um this particular property uh is is obviously largely vacant uh neglected um certainly not what we would expect in Livingston uh when we're approached with potential housing which
would help us meet our affordable housing obligation under the statutes um the developer had a significantly larger uh develop vment in mind uh significantly more units over 300 units um as part of that negotiation uh the
council was able to negotiate down the number of units which in turn negotiated down the size and bulk and height of the F the building um in response to concerns from the neighbors uh part of that process though then triggers the
need to do a financial analysis is you know as you've taken away all these units is the project economically viable so the um including professionals hired by the township our Redevelopment Council or planner economic advisors um take this role very seriously and and are
certainly hesitant to to consider and U any tax relief unless it's warranted and it it's Justified to achieve a public purpose in in redeveloping the property um this particular property the applicant uh put together an application for a long-term tax exemption uh which
has been and was previously on an agenda and has also been with the clerk's file to Mr Albert's question part of the reason uh you're allowed to reference it is because it's a very long document so to include that with the agenda package you'd wind up having our agenda package is already 290 Pages you would added
even more pages um but just for U everyone's benefit the developer proposed a pilot and the pilots are based on a percentage of annual gross revenues um the urban renewal entity that can get a pilot is limited um in their profits if they make excess
profits they have to be turned over to the town um if they make greater revenues than projected the pilot increases and the town benefits in that success um the original proposal was for uh three increments of 10% 11% 12% uh
that the Township's professionals initially negotiated with the developer um and and went through their proforma their projected costs their anticipated rents we we take this very seriously we do a lot of diligence um we we collect all the local rents compare them to see
that they're being really realistic in their um income projections we look at and vet their projected project cost to see that it's really is a a legitimate project cost and then through that analysis we evaluate is this project that's actually viable if they have to
pay full taxes or does it warrant uh tax relief um what's important I think in that context is for the public to understand that if the project doesn't go forward we're left with what we have which pays a fraction of Revenue uh and
in taxes to what would be generated from from the uh Financial agreement um once the township professionals reviewed it and negotiated uh members of the council got involved uh because they take their obligation very seriously as well
councilman ban has a uh you know he's demonstrated to me he has a very good understanding of of numbers and economics and spreadsheets and he he Dove right in and looked at and questioned the assumptions and looked for the data and looked for verification of of costs of rents councilman Anthony
got involved in the negotiations and understanding we can only have two Council people not that everybody doesn't care other than councilman Klein because he's recused uh the others certainly care but only two can actually participate in meetings of that nature without it being an open public meeting
um the end result uh was uh over a 30-year term the original application proposed approximately $46 million in total revenues to the benefit of the community um where we ended up instead of 10 11 and 12% we ended up at 11 1.2%
for the first 5 years 133% for the next 5 years 14 and a half% for the next 10 and 15 a half% uh that was a significant movement a significant increase and it was based on all the analysis that was done that said okay you need a you need
relief to make the project viable but you don't need as much relief as you asked for and we believe you can afford this much and it was bumped up and the developer ultimately agreed so clearly demonstrated they they could afford that much U the net result of that was uh
instead of 46 million it's over 58 million to the community so just the negotiation process alone yielded more than $12 million and and certainly um credit to the professionals and to the council members that were involved in negotiating um but in contrast when you
compare it to uh so initially you compare it to what the current is and and it's astronomical the difference if they continue to pay what they're paying now in taxes that the additional benefit to the community is over $40 million versus what they would pay but even
against that we look at and we and again we take this very seriously we look at this is a proposed 226 unit complex we looked at we have the 220 unit Parkview Apartment Complex we have Hillside Club we have uh The Enclave we have Cider Mill we have other apartment complexes
that we can look at and we looked and compared to their rents to ensure their rent ass you know assumptions were legitimate but we also looked at the assess values of those properties in order to arrive at what would this property potentially be assessed at if it was viable uh and quite frankly we're
very conservative in that I park viw is assessed at 50 million which given our Equalization ratio yields a projected fair market value about $67 million for our purposes even though Park viws 220 units this is only 226 has a slightly
different affordable housing configuration we we looked at 80 million do fair market value $90 million fair market even hundred million fair market value which is again significantly higher uh than the Park View comparable which is almost directly comparable in my view um analysis and when you run
those numbers um if if this property's assess had a fair market value even as high as $95 million we still the benefit of the community uh Livingston uh would be more money over the 30 years than taxes would be and part of that is because under the pilot uh instead of
paying 20 21% to the county only 5% goes to the county so essentially the differentials made up between the 5% of the county instead of the 21% of the county and the subsidy to make the project viable is essentially being borne by the county um so I I think it's
important to understand that in addition to meeting an important obligation that we have and if if not here would have to be somewhere else as far as affordable housing uh quite frankly um and and and as as a parent of a um a special needs
young adult who's in housing of this nature uh I commend the the developer for stepping up because in addition to meeting our affordable housing need it meets a a very big need in Statewide uh to provide housing for disabled adults
um so it it it there are a lot of public benefits to that in addition as part of the negotiation and and I overlooked this um the developer also pledged a lump some uh commitment a $500,000 Community benefit fee that can be utilized to pay for some Recreation improvements or whatever the council
ultimately deems appropriate so um that's sort of the backdrop of where we ended up um obviously we'll you know I I I think it's important and and we collectively have I think come to the understanding we need to do a better job communicating with the public about what
this process is and what it means and why it is ultimately beneficial but so that's that's sort of my relative long-winded summary thank you Barry I think that is that is uh very important to have the background and the lengthy process and
the amount of work that goes in uh I think the stake if and I talk about myself I mean uh while I was not in the original decision of when the project was approved uh but I you know I I see this as an opportunity where 07 07039 I
mean Livingston is not uh sort of you know short changed or or or Livingston is not at a loss financially you know because this is what we're talking about right now the scope of this ordinance is finance um so when when we look at that I think the first barometer as Barry
said uh that that I look at it is that is it really pilot worthy and that's where lots of barometers come in uh you know the bank rates the Capco rates and so on and so forth um we have Specialists we they are on our uh you
know our townships payroll we challenge them we challenge look at the numbers we we we run those numbers and find out and Challenge and it's it's it's really a debate after that we come down and say what is doable where where we would have been uh you know if we had a full tax
versus uh an 80% tax versus uh you know this arrangement of a pilot um not the best name but it is still an exemption it's a special condition but in doing so we shouldn't be at a loss again financially uh when you put all of these
together you really don't want to come out even in a scenario where you're assessed value and the you can you can go by some assumptions um but at the same time it is these are informed assumptions when I say that you have construction costs there are Specialists who are who are budgeting that who are
looking at that there is a cost for land purchase and so on and so forth all of those numbers when you and you start telling it up it is not that difficult to to see you know where we would land up uh in in in what brackets in his long description Barry also mentioned and I
would I would like to underline that that even in the extreme scenario in the extreme scenario of of assessment which is probably the lowest assessment or the highest assessment we are not looking at uh you know Livingston uh being financially at a disadvantage if it was
a regular tax model versus what you have here is uh a property getting uh getting developed which was previously approved but also with special needs so so there are there are lots of benefits uh in in uh this kind of uh development we'll
have a a vibrant area in there again it was pre-approved so we are not talking about that we're talking about the financial model of it here so I I just want to stress that that pilot may be getting if you just read the headlines you get you get some wrong conceptions
and I'm not saying you're free to take that but at the same time if you look at the effort that went underneath it months of effort and the really you know number of conferences including the point where we get half a million dollars for you know our community
projects these are small numbers when you look at the entire size of the project but when you look at how a builder can build at this rates versus what we get if we are not at a financial disadvantage it's actually a win so I'll
just rest here and say you know this is not something that should that we should um take it lightly which I'm very happy that we didn't take it very lightly and we have really gone through tremendously you know several rounds of negotiations I'll rest there but thank
you thank you I I just like to make I'm sorry um go ahead you want to go first um just two second mayor just two seconds um first of all bar thank you for that very detailed explanation that was that was wonderful um especially the two parts I think that was highlighted by councilman bhani $500,000 that's
going to go to um some wck programs going forward I think the key that you mentioned also was the difference of the uh percentage that goes down to the county as well I think that's very important for the residents to know 21 cents vers uh 21 cents of every dollar that we pay goes currently down to the
or 20 to 21 cents based on the percentages you round up or round down first five first first going forward 5 cents I think that's very important to bring out so thank you for that um I also just want to really thank uh councilman batani and councilman Anthony for their hard work in getting us to where Barry can talk about these numbers
where councilman batani can talk about these numbers both mentioned the amount of meetings that took place and the hard work that went through the last six to seven to eight months I just want to um call them out especially for all their hard work and thank him for getting us here thank you mayor so so mayor I just
want to I think the community knows that um I was in favor of this project from the very beginning um I saw the benefits of what pilots are and you know what again the word pilot payment in L with taxes doesn't mean that somebody does not pay taxes and I saw the benefits
because Pilots do actually or could actually lower a tax a homeowner's tax rate you can be homeowners can actually be saving money based on Pilots but you know what Barry I I think what we need to do as a community is we have to to
inform the community of what the pilot is just because somebody comes up to a microphone and gives a wrong definition of a pilot pilot and wrong examples doesn't mean it's true we actually have to stand here and say you know what pilots are not bad for a community they bring money into a community they bring
buildings into a community that would not happen and it lowers taxes too so you know I was in favor of this project from the very beginning so U uh I'm just happy that it um hopefully we'll be moving forward okay the last one to speak no just uh thank you Barry uh for all your
hard work on this and answering all my questions every step of way and uh and allowing me to do my thing also giving me the autonomy and thank you uh councilman bani just uh great job uh crunching the numbers there um so thank you for all your help and diving into
that thank you councilman uh mayor just one quick thing and I want to respect what Mr Albert brought up uh about comparing I think you mentioned about comparing and there is no comparison um we have actually and thanks to
councilman an uh we have actually reached out and it's not just uh in our process of negotiations or evaluating we don't want to walk in the dark so we reached out to neighboring towns we we tried to understand we called up when I say we
individually uh it's not like you know team effort or anything but that's actually the better part where you can actually make individual assessments um I reached out to folks in as far as South Jersey you know and and folks around us as well when when I say folks these are elected officials those who
have seen Pilots those who have seen similar kind of properties getting processed through either Pilots or constructions Redevelopment and I think uh one of the ideas that you gather out of all of this is that what are the
parameters what are the the the the silent Salient points in each of these deals and you learn a lot about all this uh so so yes I mean there are comparable models we have taken a look at it a numerous times I think one of the comparable model that Barry mentioned was Park View so we do have comparable
models we do have benchmarks we did look at uh you know a lot of these these numbers and data before we reach to a conclusion just want to highlight that thank you okay roll call please council member Anthony uh yes bani yes Piera yes mayor
mhart yes the reading the public hearing will be April 7th thank you uh ordinance 14-22 ordinance 14-22 establishing sewer rates I'll make a motion to approve ordinance uh for introduction move it on
first reading y I'll second okay any discussion roll call please council member Anthony uh yes bani yes Viera yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mhart yes their public hearing will also be a ail 7th thank you and
15-22 ordinance 15-22 establishing water rates I'll make a motion to approve the ordinance for introduction second any discussion before we vote roll call please council member
Anthony yes bani yes Viera yes Deputy Mayor kleene yes mayor Mard yes thank you consent agenda resolutions all matters listed with asri are considered to be routine and noncontroversial by the council will be approved by one motion there will be no separate discussion of these items unless a
member of the governing body so requests in which case the item will be removed from the consent agenda and consider in its normal sequence on the agenda as part of the general orders so just a little housekeeping we are going to be pulling resolution 25-1 123 and 25-1 126
we will be reading separately resolution 25-16 and separately 25-1 128 so car if you would please read all the other ones uh in those in order please mayor can I request uh
25129 uh to be pulled for a quick conversation sure you want to pull you want to read it separately yes please Okay resolution 25-17 appointment of Nicholas varso resolution 25-18 authorizing
funding agreement with Atlas 6 Peach tree LLC to provide for the funding of Redevelopment activities on block 6100 lot 11 commonly known as two Peach Tree Hill Road resolution 25- 1119 adopting model bylaws for Township advisory
committees resolution 25120 authorizing developers agreement with Metropolitan YMCA of the oranges relative to 304 South Livingston Avenue resolution 255-1121 authorizing the award of a contract to colelli Brothers Inc
resolution 25-1 122 authorizing the award of a contract to saell and Son General Contracting Inc resolution 25124 authorizing the sale of surplus property resolution 25-1 125 authorizing a contract with Shai international
corporation and resolution 25-1 127 authorizing approval of change order number one with Motorola Solutions Inc can I make one comment before we vote uh just on resolution 120 I didn't want to pull it but 25120 I just want to thank
uh the bar your office and Jared your office for getting this there's been a long time coming and we are very happy that the Y is going to be going forward and by what I understand there will be a groundbreaking ceremony sometime over the next six to seven weeks which I think all of us in this town will look
forward to a brand new beautiful why and I'm very happy that this is going to be on this is on the agenda for today mayor I'll make a motion to approve the resolutions REM remaining on the consent agenda second okay roll call please council member Anthony yes lebani yes
Viera yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mhart yes the 25-16 please 25-16 approving annual budget for Livingston Community Partnership
Corporation also known as the bid 20125 someone has to move it motion to uh move for the first reading I'll second this consent right so roll call please there was a second by Council yeah councilman Anthony second uh council member Anthony uh yes
bani yes Vieira yes Deputy May Klein yes mayor mhart and the bid budget hearing is going to be on a Monday April 28th 2025 thank you okay uh resolution 25-1 128
resolution 25-1 128 designating 45 part Partners urban renewal LLC as redeveloper and authorizing the execution of a Redevelopment agreement for property identified as block 3700 Lots 28 29 and 30 you're accuse
yes I'll I'll uh I'll move it no I moved I pulled out 129 though I we're on 128 has to be pulled out as well mayus yes okay so we just need a second for 128 second it okay roll call please
council member Anthony yes bani yes Vieira yes mayor mhart yes now we're now we can read separately 129 resolution 25-19 authorizing the award of a contract to topology NJ
LLC okay discussion yep so the reason I I I asked for it have we to move it we move it first it's fine move first so let's move in second they have discuss second I'll second okay discussion please yeah the reason I I want to pull
this out uh is uh this is key right this is this is an important project for our Township and this contract talks about um you know how we communicate and
how do we really gather uh everybody's input uh everybody includes people on the council here as well on in the days we're all residents and the same time everybody has tremendous interest and in fact that should be that have a huge
stake in there it's a 60 plus acre property uh and I'm talking about the mall uh so I would just request uh Barry to to describe what what is behind the scene what is the role of topology uh to for everyone to understand and we don't
we just don't pass it thank you very sure so um as everyone's aware I think that the mall is by far the singest single largest uh property in the town and and the single largest taxpayer uh the mall has obviously as everyone knows
struggled mightily uh it was struggling pre-co Co was sort of the death now um you know two of the anchors have been closed for quite some time Lorden Taylor and Sears um Macy's is hanging on a Lifeline uh and the mall's basically a ghost town so uh recognizing that the
council um directed A study uh with the power of condemnation to determine if it was an area in need of Redevelopment uh it was found to be so and designated um there the malls actually two separate Parcels years some years ago exercised an option to purchase the
northern 16 Acres so they own that it's designated separate block and lot um during our affordable housing negotiations fair share housing corporation uh was was pushing very hard they wanted potential housing on the entire ball site and the and the uh
Council Health firm and with Mr Ker's advocacy on behalf of the township um were able to push back and and convince fair share that the township you know this was too valuable an asset to have it the entire thing be housing uh it could have conceivably been 14,500 units
of housing settlement agreement ultimately agreed to uh 386 units on the Sears side s um and importantly uh contain a provision that that's all the housing we would be obligated or required or could be required uh to take their from Builder remedy lawsuits or
anyone else um it was an important I think agreement to one help us meet Our obligation but two to to retain the bulk of them all U as basically a blank slate over which the mayor and Council have control uh of what can go there what can Zone uh which
led us to this process and the mayor Council have been uh steadfast for years that getting the public input was a critical part of the process uh everybody recognizes how important that site is to the entire Community uh in reviewing how do we best do that uh We
Came Upon What's called the sheret process which is a um I've now learned an old uh word relating from architectural design but it's it's essentially a a very intense period of design involving all the stakeholders
listening input and making sure that everyone has an opportunity to participate to be heard to see what they'd like to see there um so there are no preconceived notions for the balance of the mall the the what I'll call the the charet portion uh there may be some
ability to relate to the the Sears site and how exactly that lays out but um the shet process which is going to be starting on March 17th starts with a town hall meeting and get the uh Community Center where residents will have an opportunity to hear from from the professionals to express their ideas
what like to they'd like to see there um then during that week there are drop in sessions where there's going to be a design team an Urban Design Team here in town hall uh sort of taking all those ideas and all that input that was uh derived from the town hall meeting
coming up with conceptual designs drawings uh Works in progress that the public can come and watch and see and ask questions and provide input uh with the ultimate then result of the process is the this following Saturday uh a a meeting that will be held here in town
hall um that will sort of unveil you know here's all the the thoughts there'll be data in terms of what how many people thought what we they also preceded this with a a uh survey online which has had a great response and a great turnout um so all of that
information will go into come coming up with ideas from there the council you know coupled with the idea of what's reasonable and what can be affordable so recognizing you can't just say we want it to be 50 acres of park because nobody's going to doesn't make any money and nobody will pay for it to buy them
allall and tear it down um but we'll we'll have an opportunity to really develop some concepts of what we like and then put that into a Redevelopment plan uh so that potential developers will know what the community wants what the community is willing to support uh and then act accordingly in terms of
deriving what value they could offer for them all and and hopefully we move forward from what um quite frankly has become an embarrassment to the community the current state of the mall in my opinion um so so thanks Barry I think a couple of couple of points I want to
reiterate uh so it's it's it's first of all it's a huge opportunity uh I think this does not come in um every 5 year 10 year 15 year 20 years uh in my 22 years in town I have not seen such a big
opportunity uh and we all recognized it and we have been saying it bar is right we have been saying it that we have to have public everybody's residence engagement uh but having said that there are couple of Parts one is the complication and I really again and I do
that often but I I really want to do it again is that read the wsx Tribune article on the Sear's property as we as we came to know about it uh the idea of that is that was a commitment from the previous round that needs to be understood I think that's where the
professionals come in they describe it as the idea on the first um first uh first meeting and then what is the opportunity that we have I think and I don't mean to be a be an expert on all of that so will not break any any Thunders there but I think those are the
complications that need to be uh conveyed by the professionals understood and and sort of conveyed in very very fluid way I think that is the whole whole idea behind behind doing this hiring topology hiring experts doing all of that is the reason behind these
ordinance uh these are nothing behind the scenes closed door meetings or anything like that what is important is this is a complex project let's gather everybody's uh inputs as methodically as possible present it back within a week and these are the Specialists that that
we that will be doing it thank you thank you Deputy Mayor Klein do you have some yeah just two quick things um first of I want to thank um uh Barry and Jared uh who have been involved with the negotiations on this for literally years up to this point uh many years um and
have put us in a position where um you know there is some housing that's going to go with uh where the sear site is which you know this is part of the state mandates that we have to uh address uh but we have uh three quarters of this property which you know maybe not quite a blank canvas as Barry said because you
know there are economic realities that we have to deal with someone's going to have to buy them all and develop it and they're going to have to be able to afford to buy them all at whatever price they're paying and you they're not going to be able to just knock everything down and just plant grass right so there's going to be some economic realities but there's a lot of things that can be done and the town is going to have a lot of
input on what can be done we're going to be able to reone this and be able to describe what we want and then we can deal after that with uh with with developers and and and make sure that they align to the vision that we have uh you know to a high extent um I also just want to say um we want to see everybody
out at this process next week okay every single day of next week There's going to be um uh at the community center and uh here the uh people professionals you can come and give your input tell us what you want to see there uh talk to people
drum up ideas um there's lots of cool things we've heard already we want to keep hearing more and more input come in person and and uh and talk to us about it uh we're excited to hear what you think May mayor thank you um I just want to make sure that um you know really everybody heard what was the most most
important piece of this was that and it's a success story you know what everybody's seeing all the development going on in town and you know what we didn't want the Westminster okay the state told us we had to do it so when it comes to the mall and they start looking
at the mall I think Barry you may have low balled it because I think there could have been 2500 to 3,000 units going four and five stories up and uh that would we would be dealt dealing with but you know what we are right now capped if we want to three 376 units
only okay no more housing is going over there unless we want it the state can't tell us that we want it so 376 units not two 2500 not 1500 not 3,000 376 units that is a big win for us and and and the
town and the mall area thank you mayor May if I could just one I I I should have mentioned this and I don't want to turn this into a broader discussion but the other critical benefit of uh which which was alluded to also here of of not only limiting it to 376 units there that as part of our
third round settlement and we were able to negotiate and again uh Mr Jer Mr caner was involved in that um we included Provisions in there that fair share had never done and among those were that um one that they signed off on
the whole you know 50 acres doesn't you can't put housing on but two that allthough that this project and some of the others that we did in the third generated what are called excess of surplus credits and we got their agreement that those can be used in the fourth round anyone who's following it
we now have a fourth round obligation of 470 units and we're starting off ahead of the game with 124 units of banked Surplus credits already which equates to almost 600 units that we don't have to build to meet that so that was another critical I think benefit of the
settlement Barry just real quick on this that we're passing um how maybe can you just explain for two seconds on how uh this contract's being paid for for topology and the charet oh so so ultimately um initially the township
will fund it but there are mechanisms in place that once um the process is completed and there's a Redevelopment uh plan and a redeveloper designated it is customary and traditional and expected in this case as well that that redeveloper will reimburse the township
for the full cost of this thanks so I'm just going to thank everybody who spoke I'm not going to repeat anything except thank uh our attorney chared caner and Barry for all the hard work I I'm going to I was going to talk about it the comments at the end but this is the appropriate time please
please please next week there's uh coun a deputy mayor Klein mentioned it there are one two there about seven eight different uh times to come out this is the chance for all the residents to come out let us hear your opinion we we are doing this for all of the community so
everybody can have their their peace and everybody can say what they want to say and what they want to see so I'm asking everybody to please please spend some time next week uh we did it on purpose it's not a school vacation week we have times in the evening we have times during the day we have times on weekends
we did this very very systematically to make sure that everybody has the opportunity morning noon and night to come out and speak to some of the professionals that we're talking about here so I please urge everybody to come out with that I think I'm going to ask to roll call for this one council member
Anthony yes tupani yes via yes Deputy Mayor Klein yes mayor mhart yes okay now can I have a motion please open the meeting to public portion I'll make the motion second all in favor I okay the
meeting is now open for public portion on any subject with a three minute limit hi Mr Mayor Justin Alpert 50 uh a resident of this community uh um is everyone going to be at the shet there's a lot of different meetings throughout that week so I'm personally
come as many as I can but I don't expect to be there to everyone okay um you know our regular tax model is fundamentally broken so when we compare numbers to it it's it's broken there's a philosophical
problem that we suffer in this state with top- down control and uh we see it here we see it here last week with well all this was just forced down us well you know we have one party in control there's really no reason for us to suffer under
top-down control when we hear things like oh but you know this is good because then we don't have to pay the county well you know we're responsible for the county um under single party governance we have behaved as if we are subjects of
the county and the veral localities ought to Take Over Control of the county short changing the county is not a uh answer fortunately the County taxes are fundamentally broken and we could adjust the numbers there and keep our taxes low
while raising the taxes on some of the communities that have really suffered under a long time under single party control the model is broken the developers are falling all over themselves for these Pilots because they are invaluable to them in so many ways
and it locks them in for 30 years do a 60-year analysis see the cash flows that pour out of the community over 60 years or 90 years we are setting ourselves up for something bad here um the uh
affordable housing when that uh deed restriction lapses it goes to the developer that should come back to us what about the uh the special needs does that lapse after 30 years as
well yeah and to whom does that go when it lapses well if it lapses it lapses the de restriction no longer exist so if we're going to be doing a pilot let's reclaim that value from the from the developers they're going to make their money do the accounting on the other
side of the line find out what their return on investment is going to be of their federal tax basis and any additional money that they're going to be putting in and what point do they take out their 3% Vig do we know is it when the CFO is issued because right
there they're taking the risk off the table there's a whole accounting that needs to be done here from the other side so you can see how we're being taken advantage of and then you need to move forward with condemning the mall property because once you see how much
money the developers are making over the long term you're going to want to reclaim that on behalf of the community thank you for continuing the conversation Mr Mayor anybody else on any topics any I to
fley uh two quick things hopefully any update on the situation with the dumpsters at my behind my mother-in-law's house follow up and I I'll reach out to you I apologize okay no problem uh the second thing is this
I'm I might say it wrong shat is that what it's called shet shet sorry um did they do that also if you know at the other there's I believe in Paramus there's a mall that's basically doing almost exactly the same
thing they have a portion of the mall being residential and they're possibly commercial the rest of it um I think down in Mammoth County also did did is that what is it is that what that is this is a very common process topology our retained professional I know I did
it in South Orange on a number of development projects did it in Morristown um I would say it's very commonly done across the country on a lot of major projects like this not by topology but by other firms doing a similar process right okay so it could
it could possibly be somewhat beneficial depending on what goes in the rest of them all you know like it could be I mean I'm I'm I'm hearing things that other places are are you know small Supermarket or or a gym a big gym uh
coming in there um and then all continue some of the smaller stores still in the mall area again's possible the Town Council by virtue of the settlement retains control and we know we don't have to allow housing um and and that's
the whole purpose of the chared is to hear from residents do they want a supermarket do they want a j do they what would they like to see there everything's on the table so they can look at the other Mall properties in the state and not only in the I can't tell you how many redeveloped Mall projects
I've looked at across the country yeah so yeah okay all right I just I just wanted to make thanks dump Tim hopefully Tim hopefully you'll come out next week to the to the I'll be there okay great hi Jennifer Kesler Livingston
resident I have a few question can you hear me speak a little bit closer so he can hear you okay can everyone hear me awesome Jennifer Kesler Livingston resident I actually just have a few questions just on certain things that were discussed
are pilots able to ever be re-evaluated because just hearing what you were talking about with serious analysis was done with the cost of the building obviously I don't want this to turn into any political commentary but with the tariffs that may go into effect are they
reevaluating are you reevaluating the cost to build given your potential margins of the cost of construction to escalate dramatically as a result and margins to build new construction I
working construction anillar are already so tight that that's obviously a big concern related to the Livingston wall but unrelated to the development have a bunch of trees I'm just because I live in that area have a bunch of trees recently been knocked down and I'm just
does that have to do with the potential Redevelopment I know they're two off topic questions but they were just things I think referring to that Walnut and uh yep and no that's actually that that does not have to do with the mall that has to do with the fact that I believe the county is going to be
putting in a um uh traffic what's it called their proper Federal yeah talk about Hobart app in waln where they yeah that's a County Federal roundabout project yeah instead of that three-way instead of the three-way stop sign that's what that has to do with that nothing to do with the
allall okay I didn't know because only it's part of the tangential to the erass or inass both off of Walnut so I was just curious but with respect to the pilot I mean is that ever subject to
review I mean obviously when the Bottle King site was redeveloped and it was on the books for redevelopment things being discussed on an international level weren't really at
the focus and obviously it's just a concern that I think should be looming um oh one other question you were speaking about the Livingston Mall Redevelopment and how I can't recall the number let's say round number 375 units
are going to be developed and that goes for our pH three commitment is there and we have this credit obviously for phase four are there any projects right now that might be on the books that would go to phase four and is there isn't appropriate at
all to delay approval of those projects to almost borrow from Peter to pay Paul for phase four with things that may have been presented during quote unquote phase three I don't know if I'm explaining that properly well one I can tell you the 45 South Livingston has been the subject that is going to generate
34 affordable credits with bonus credits uh both for the special needs because you get a one to one so all 17 of those credits become 34 credits and on the because it's a Redevelopment of a distressed retail property you get a 50% bonus on the other 17 so those that 17
then becomes 25 a half so out of that project alone uh it'd be 34 plus the 25 you're at 59 uh those were not in the third round plan those are 100% towards the fourth round and the 124 bonus credits we already had so we're almost
at 200 already we're almost halfway home just on those and did we ever discuss what our obligate do we even know what our I don't recall the state came out with numbers it was 470 something um yeah I was going to give an update during my report so I'll go through where we are in the fourth round I appreciate it thank
you U Barry one other question was sorry uh was that uh about reconsideration I think that's what she asked like you know if the if the costs go up what's the potential of re what was that like rearrangement or reevaluating I guess yeah I guess they
could come back and attempt to renegotiate the pilot but there's not mechanism by once they've agreed it's a binding contract their only option is to opt out of the pilot which would require them to pay full taxes which they it's not viable so they wouldn't do it but um they they bear the risk of increased
costs let's put it that way and if I may mayor uh just add one more thought there uh these are the kind of considerations you know when we Engage The Specialists that we have on the staff that we as taxpayers pay for their services that's the kind of conversations that happens
right so thank you for bringing that up any other any other comments seeing none can I have a motion to close motion to close second all in favor I okay we are now on to uh reports of Township officials and council members an nothing for me thank thank
you mayor Adam nothing for me Barry um just briefly again i' thank the council and I also they're not here tonight other than some of them I want to thank all the department heads who came last night I think we had a very good informative budget meetings where they and it's good to for the department heads to get some FaceTime with the council and get to have some dialogue
that was very productive and uh that's all I have Russ uh nothing tonight mayor thank you okay counselor uh thank you mayor um I think we've discussed at the fourth round fair share housing process is going to be a more transparent process
so as updates occur I'm going to be updating the public on where we stand um so in in the state of New Jersey um 440 municipalities uh filed resolutions basically going into the fourth round of
fair share housing um as you recall on January 27th we passed a resolution um in which the number that we got from the state was 46 61 units um through the work of Mr Lewis topology and the governing body uh we
were able to reduce that number from 461 uh to 407 and that was a number that we certified to um then on January 28th as was required by the fourth round we filed the declaratory judgment action uh where the township certified that number and we included topologies report
um of the 440 resolutions that were adopted across the state 282 municipalities accepted the number from the state and 158 did what livinga did which was reduce the number um of those 158 municipalities that reduced their
number uh fair share housing Corporation challenged 90 of these municipalities and Livingston was not one of those um even though we reduced our number by almost 60 and I think that really goes to the hard work of of Mr Lewis and topology and our professionals that fair share housing uh didn't challenge our
numbers so they were okay with our for 7 I could look what they calculated it to but it wasn't far enough where they were where they were challenging it um I can tell you the New Jersey Builder Association however filed a blanket challenge against all 158 municipalities that reduce their number so a there's a
current objection um in the courts right it's not really in the courts it's in the fourth round procedure so Livingston does have one objection it's from the New Jersey Builders Association um and their objection is basically saying that our dis District had a need of
2056 affordable units um and that came from the state and as each municipality reduced their number there was no accounting to get back up to the 20506 that other municipalities had to incur greater units um the statute
provides that an objection to a specific municipality has to describe with specificity what was wrong with our number and has to calculate their own number so we believe that the Builder's challenge is is facially f is facially invalid um we filed papers in that regard um the builders also asked for
consolidation of all 158 of their actions um they asked to skip the sumon process and go right to What's called the session which is basically the hearing uh the court rejected um the builders on that so every mpal will be heard separately um and the court said that there has to be some sort of
settlement process and it'll take place Livingston does not have its date yet um but I can tell you that the fair share housing objections are already being heard uh the time limit for completion of this is March 31st so all the objections have to be resolved by the by the fourth round session by March 31st
um I suspect we'll get a date soon um but I don't think the Builder the New Jersey Builder Association objections are not are not being seen favorably by the courts and the fair share housing objectives I think are are mainly being settled if um if the Builder Association is
um in other words if if if we're being there's a direction to settle with the Building Association does that mean the number is going to come up where the settlement is going to be we're not this is we've already you know Fair sharid didn't have a problem with our number this is a good faith reasonable number for the town on the land that we have that's available and that's the number we're sticking to do we have to worry
about that number going up if we're settling yes I mean obvious yeah the Builder Association is asking the court to enforce the 461 from DCA uh so I presume uh at the settlement and I don't think Livingston will be first so we'll be able to take some guidance from how the other municipalities we we'll move forward um Livingston will take the
position that our 407 number is is appropriate based on the topology report um and I don't believe that we'll be in a position to settle however at that time there'll be representatives of the township with me and if there's a reasonableness to settle we could go that route um but yeah the Builder Association is looking to have their number raised we also raised the issue
that we don't think the Builder Association has standing um they're a political action committee and we don't believe political action committees uh have standing to bring these types of challenges so the court is looking at all that thank you jar y there's no further questions I don't have any
anything further tonight thank you very much councelor Carolyn um I just wanted to uh congratulate Casey Kimmel longtime Livingston resident in Livingston high school grad on moving into his new position as Clerk of uh Wallington
burough we've had him for four years we've been blessed and fortunate to have him and I just want to wish him the best and if anybody knows him and has listened to this please congratulate them yeah he's a thank you very much he's a great kid um I had the opportunity of and his dad uh coached uh
t-ball together so I've known him ever since t-ball and I'm very happy uh that he is that he's saying that so congratulations to him he will be missed um it is councilman Anthony's turn this week to deliver the uh the remarks for the council I'll be quick um and
congratulations to Casey great kid great family um okay so going back uh so the moall uh shet I just want to get those out there again again the dates um they are Monday 6: to
8 at the community center if I have any of these wrong please jump in uh Tuesday Wednesday Thursday here Town Hall all day Saturday 12: to 1 here I think that's it that's the final one that's final one just so
Tuesday just excuse me one second Tuesday Wednesday Thursday all day there will be um people here to so people can come in and talk to some of the uh designers and get their opinions at 6 p.m. on Tuesday Wednesday 30 they're having what they call pinning sessions where then you get uh sticky pads and
you get little numbers and one two and three what's the most important thing you'd like to see from all the other suggestions that have been made so while it's going to be all day uh I think 10 to 5 is all day here or 9 to5 all day here no no appointments necessary just stop in when you can 6 p.m will be the pinning sessions as well and Saturday 12
to1 uh here as well will be the final reveals that's true thank thank you thank you for adding that um we have a couple ribbon cuttings coming up crave and Company on 3:19 at 5:00 p.m. uh the day before golf cave at same time 5:00
pm on 318 um let's see the last few weeks um just some nice events that a lot of us went to we had the Crescent Moon Lighting on 227 I believe all of us um participated
in read Across America in the uh schools Hillside U Collins thank you for inviting all of us it's always a lot of fun um I know um councilman bani and I participated in the lec's mural
competition we were judges um and a lot of beautiful artwork I think total there was 17 then narrowed down to six and then narrowed down to three but I want to congratulate all the uh high school students who participated in that just uh beautiful beautiful artwork and and
the judges as well there was you know We're councilmen Men there was there was some artists there and Arts Council people there and they're going to be displayed in town I think um they're going to be on uh the Seymour's building the pink
Jewels building and the salad house and I think they're still targeted for Earth Day which is coming up in April and thanks to all the council members who approved uh such a great initiative by the LEC a special shout out to Ali Baris who uh has kind of spearheaded that from
the lec's point of view uh we had a nice uh thank you Barry the budget uh meeting with the heads uh last night um I think uh everyone came in with uh what they need rather than uh everything under the sun of what they want to keep uh the
budget um reasonable I think that was a great meeting last night thank you uh mayor for running facilitating the meeting uh and the food was good too um yeah you did you slaved um thank you Jessica Kelly I think last night was the
zoom meeting for the first mayor's Wellness uh with the public uh meeting on uh a variety of subjects including mental health so thank you Jessica for uh running that and let's see did I any last minute additions I think Deputy
Mayor Klein has go for it we'll call this a split we we split this one then I don't have to go next time you got out of it already so as well as well take this over this is very quick I just want to we uh the date for pick it up this year is going to be
427 um so uh that's Sunday on 427 so everybody please get your group of volunteers together we're going to go out and pick up all the trash in the streets and the streams and uh make this place beautiful thank you okay that being oh I'm sorry j nope that being said we are still we're going to go back into the conference room we will still
be in open uh for a few more minutes yeah and the only the only further action this governing body will take will be passing resolution to go in the Clos great discuss thank you counselor