##VIDEO ID:rM6iOqVQlIc## than awesome you Tak longer to drive all that's a very good question has our top off right good evening everyone this meeting is being held in accordance with the open public meetings act in adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required by law specifically the revised annual notice was emailed to the West Essex Tribune and Star Ledger on February 28th 2023 the agenda and resolutions for the meeting are available on www. Livingston nj.org certain portions of this meeting may be closed to the public for the purposes of personnel and or other matters as outlined in the Sunshine Law decisions made and are discussed in closed session will be made known to the public at a later time notice to the members of the governing body and Township staff any use of electronic devices during this meeting shall be used so Sol for the purposes of Township business and any Communications are subject to the open public records act to the extent possible this evening's Township of Livingston council meeting will be live streamed via Facebook at www.fb.com Livingston Township NJ questions or comments email to live comments Livingston nj.org by 4M on the day at a meeting each speaker should follow the rules of order and Livingston code section 2-15 Madame clerk roll call please council members m here Klein here bolie here Deputy Mayor Anthony here mayor Vieira present so can we just stand for a moment of silence and Pledge of Allegiance thank you you know is this microphone on okay you can hear me okay thank you I don't is Eileen Fishman in here today I don't see alen fisherman from messes County okay uh this evening there are no proclamations or presentations to be considered uh this evening uh may have a motion to approve uh the minutes from the regular and conference meeting minutes of October 30th 2023 may have a second all in favor opposed thank you um so at this point uh we're a public comment on agenda items only um just want to clarify that there's been some miscommunications or misrepresentation on social media uh with tonight's 45 um South Livingston Avenue we are reintroducing it um that reintroducing it um depending on how it's voted on if it's a yes vote that will then go to a second reading on um November 27th um today there was some posting a little while ago that said that this was the second uh uh ordinance reading and it's not it is the the first one so um so there's a couple things that uh we're going to do uh because the councilman client is going to rec ex himself so what I'd like to do is does anybody I I'm going to open the public hearing and at that time I'm going to ask um if anybody has anything besides 45 South Livingston Avenue to talk about at that point if you can come up and we can speak and then once we get to 45 um uh South Livingston Avenue uh councilman Klein will um will recuse himself so may have a motion to open the public may have a second all in favor opposed okay so does anyone have any any um any comments and um I I will open it up it's a 4 minute uh per person uh anything besides 45 um South Livingston Avenue okay Council mlan we'll call you when uh the okay so what we're going to do first um is um I'm going to ask Carolyn mzuka uh our town clerk Carolyn you've received uh quite a few um uh letters um you are you are uh four minutes time limit per letter um however I'd like to you to read the letters first and then um after that we're going to go to uh Mr Lewis who will uh talk about some of the changes from the the uh community meeting uh the last community meeting that we're at Carolyn thank you mayor um as mayor Viera stated I did receive a lot of comments on the 45 South Lon Avenue property today some of them were uh rubber stamps of each other so I'm not going to read them every single time because they say verbatim exactly the same thing so from Ashish nashen Renee Urban Kimberly D filipo Danny Brando I have the same comment and I'm going to read it uh to you right now it says I am writing to express my frustration and anger regarding this week's Town Council agenda item for the introduction of ordinance 19223 and I am asking that you send the proposal back to the developers because it does not meet the goals of the Township's master plan or the designated Redevelopment plan for months the citizens of Livingston have expressed their concerns regarding the overdevelopment of Livingston in general overcrowding to schools increased demands on infrastructure as well as the changes in the character of downtown Livingston and the congestion that the luxury apartment complex proposal for 45 South Livingston Avenue will bring ignoring the concerns of the citizens The Proposal you plan to introduce is for 210 luxury apartments 32 affordable units and a 60ft structure this means that virtually nothing has changed since we have been expressing our concerns the height for the project far exceeds the norm for commercial spaces on Livingston Avenue 28 ft and is is even higher than the Town Homes at Town Center 55 ft which most in Livingston feel was a mistake in addition this proposal at the maximum density of anywhere in Livingston 35 units per acre and Far Far higher than the property along Livingston Avenue for these reasons we ask that you do not introduce ordinance 19-22 3 at the township council meeting and request that the developers create a new proposal that reflects the CI citizens concerns and preserves the the character of Livingston's downtown I received a letter from um Mr Paul boxer to the Town Council I write in reference to ordinance 19 2023 concerning the Redevelopment of 45 South Livingston Avenue the old Bottle King property I urge you to vote down this ordinance my neighborhood has been trying to fight this development for months we have appealed to you in person and over email in the council chambers and in the town hall Lobby over and over ask asking questions to which we have received little to no response we have invited you all to visit our neighborhood and talk with us so we can show up show you up close the impact the development will have I still don't know you truly appreciate the potential impact here although you might have looked over the site from the vantage point of Livingston AV you really need to look at it from the backyard spaces of your constituents I am lucky to be one one block removed from this I know that some of my neighbors especially those who reside on the west side of sherbrook see this development as a serious existential issue you all heard a child share his fear that residents of the 60-foot tower would stare down into his backyard and through his bedroom window this development plan ultra high density housing perch between the busiest intersection in town and a treelined residential neighborhood will be a disaster for this town it is rapacious the plan shows no love for Livingston no concern for Neighbors no respect for community and no attention attempt at Civic mindedness please vote down this plan the revised version you are considering today is barely different from the plan you tabled in the summer and the lack of substantiative changes in fact shows a deep disregard for processing Community exchange we are still staring down the barrel of 60 foot high buildings well over 200 units and ultra high density housing can can can we just those letters have already been received and read from us properly we read them like we like we did so we read them and if we could just hold our Applause Just to the end I've read them I've read them over and over come on Carolyn continue please this letter is from Shabina B to whom this may concern Livingston is not classified as a city as a resident of Livingston New Jersey with children enrolled in the local school system I am deeply concerned about the proposed addition of apartment buildings the current property value in Livingston ranges from 1 million to 5 million and the school system is highly regarded the introduction of apartment building raises significant apprehensions there is a fear that this could cause compromise of the town's quality attracting low-income residents leading to a decline in school ratings and causing overcrowding the existing situ situation with children being placed in trailer classrooms due to capacity issues makes it impractical to accommodate a 200 unit apartment building potentially adding 600 to 800 more students to our school it's important to emphasize that Livingston is not a city and the community strongly opposes the notion of introducing apartment buildings particularly in an area not conductive to such conducive to such development the dissatisfaction among residents is palpable and there is a collective ple to to prevent developers from adversely impacting our town this next one is from Eve and Neil Goldberg Town Council are we really going to do this again we are asking that you send the proposal back to the developers as it does not meet the goals of the Township's master plan or the designated Redevelopment plan you've heard the concerns regarding the overdevelopment of Lo it seems you are ignoring all of us quite honestly the Town Center is total debacle I recall when was built and the weight was presented to those of us who have been residents for many years none of the promises were realized absolutely none it did not come become the Hub it was intended to the housing has never done well most of the stores cannot make a go of it the restaurants can't even survive and the park-like feel was certainly never realized why on Earth would you attempt this again it is incumbent upon you to honor those of us who pay taxes in this town and not move forward of your own Accord um the next one I'm going to read is from the Devin family okay okay thank you Mr kin um next one is from Anna scalora to the Livingston Town Council I joined my neighbors in writing to express disappointment and frustration regarding the reintroduction of ordinance 19- 2023 and especially learning how few changes were made to the most perplexing elements of the plan make no mistake no plan will be acceptable unless you take seriously our concerns regarding density the number of units should reflect maximum density standards traditionally set by this town between 18 and 22 units per acre and height 60 feet in an area where the maximum height is 28 ft for most structures in Livingston in an article dated December 30th 2021 in the Livingston Tribune some past and current members of this Council fall rightfully took exception to the height for in quote Fernandez expressed concerned about size density and Building height council member Anthony called it quote ni concept end quote but echoed Fernandez's concern councilman Vieira also expressed concern and asked it to be brought down to make at the same height as Livington Town Center unquote Town Council your gut instincts were right back then so what has changed why do you lack the courage to stand up for what you knew was wrong back then and continue to push this t uh down our throat why do you continue to ignore our calls for better insight into the traffic safety and environmental concerns we have we are residents that deserve to know our Town Council is fighting for us and has our back and not focused on serving those who don't even live here yet for these reasons we ask that you do not introduce ordinance 19-22 3 at the Town council meeting and request that the developers create a new proposal that reflect the citizens concerns and preserves the character of womon d town and then um there's one that I will not read that was um that was Anonymous uh why don't you do it uh why don't you do it under discussion you want to do it okay no problem you can do it so today we received an email from Andrew pad that's the email address written um it was not written in comment because it was not signed and we're not knowledgeable if this is a resident or not I certainly hope not it states hello Livingston Township this is coming from a land developer Builder it's crucial for the community to maintain its character and economic balance with a significant increase in Housing Development there is a concern about the potential decrease in the average income level as someone who has invested 2.6 million in house I am apprehensive about my child currently attending Mount Pleasant School due to our home investment potentially going to school with someone renting a ,000 apartment on a $50,000 annual income it's essential to address these concerns to ensure the town remains inclusive and meets the expectations of its residents while keeping the Livingston standard high this will decrease property value in Livingston very bad idea it's not a city it's an Uber Rich Utopia for those who strive for excellence thank you I really hope that wasn't from a Livingston person thank you yes it was absolutely appalling okay thank you um Barry you know before we open um the the public comment on 45 um uh South Livingston can you explain why this ordinance needs to be uh uh reintroduced again and what some of the changes were since the uh last community meeting uh yes mayor uh point of order Mr Al Mr Al recognized the um legally when an ordinance an ordinance is a two-step process there's an introduction then there's public notice and a public hearing if at the time of the public hearing there are what are known as substantive changes to the ordinance the requirement is that you go back to introduction and you reintroduce uh in in this case the developer having uh attended the town Forum hearing some of the concerns uh of the residents uh came back with a revised plan um in an effort to to try and address some of those concerns uh recognizing they'll never be able to do it to everyone's satisfaction uh and still have a viable project um and so to summarize the changes in the plan for for those who may not have an opportunity to compare them uh the amended plan reduces the total number of units from 240 to 210 uh with a corresponding increase uh decrease in the 15% offsite affordable special needs housing units uh by reducing the unit count they are also then in a position to eliminate uh a significant number of parking spaces which allowed them to eliminate the entire back row of parking that was facing sherbrook uh which in turn then allows that to become part of the green space between sherbrook and the property so that rear buffer to from parking to sherbrook increases from 10 feet to 28 feet uh which will allow for more tree planting fencing Etc in addition it allowed them to pull the back the building uh back further and lower the height in the back uh so whereas the original plan that was introduced uh had um the potential for 45 ft High 50 feet back and 60 feet high 70 ft back from the rear property line the revised plan um has the lower the rear being no more than 30 ft H in height uh within 80 feet so an 80 foot setback instead of 50 and the height goes from 45 down to 30 at that lower portion then the stepped up version what was 60 feet at 70 60 feet high at 70 feet back is now 60 feet high at 100 feet back uh from the rear the property line with sherbrook so those are the changes uh actually in the plan themselves obviously um the reduction in the total number of units will have a corresponding you know proportional reduction in traffic and other things when those numbers are calculated but that's not actually in the plan so those were summarizing those are the changes in the plan everything else in the plan remain the same but I did want to is you know identify those for people who did not have an opportunity to compare plan to plan so you're saying Barry that the um the the the ones closest to sheerbrook are now only about um 30 ft High yeah so in the original plan that was introduced the back only only the top floor stepped down this now steps down to only 30 feet high and that and that had in the original plan was able to be 50 feet from the rear property line it's now 80 feet from the rear property line and again the buffer with sherbrook goes from 10 feet to 28 ft of green space so instead of taking trees down they're actually going to probably add add more trees correct and it looks like they with the 28 ft they'd be able to uh preserve uh obviously any healthy but U all the trees that are there currently if they're no if they're not healthy they would obviously replace them they can supplement with additional uh landscaping and again uh the fence that they already committed to okay thank you um at this time um I'm going to open public comment on 45 South Livingston Avenue uh when you please come up to the microphone um you do have four minutes just please give your name for the record mayor is your timer working uh uh if if not uh Russ has the uh the Oldtimer thank you uh Diane in fonte sherbrook Park wa I guess good evening yeah it's on the green light the green light's on I'm here again to speak about the pending project at 45 South Livingston Avenue ordinance 19-22 3 despite the fact that residents are being told about changes to the plan which is being reintroduced tonight there have been no significant changes we the residents have been extremely concerned over many aspects of this development and we have not been heard by the Town Council the height of 60 feet and density of the existing plan remains unacceptable at that location it has been mentioned by the town by the council members that they are Desiring a pedestrian friendly sidewalks for this area and I would like to invite the council members to walk across the intersection at Route 10 and Livingston Avenue at any time during the day and see if you find it to be pedestrian friendly uh Crossing I've walked there several times recently and found it very stressful as a pedestrian since the cars will not stop turning even when The Pedestrian has the right of way this situation is seriously dangerous if the town is adding 200 apartments in that area it will only cause additional safety hazards at the intersection especially for pedestrians a quick uh do website um a search for intersection counts at the closest intersection showed a 48h hour count of 18,21 vehicles that information on the site only had data from 2019 of the intersection count at Route 10 and Hillside Avenue I'm sure that a count done in 2023 would be significantly higher also there is additional new con construction on Livingston Avenue in rosand which will undoubtedly increase the volume of traffic at our intersection I do appreciate that the Town Council has been open to discussing speed bumps for Arden and sherbrook but I believe this project uh if it's completed as the council is planning then those streets should be made into a dead end for the safety and Welfare of the neighborhood for all of the above concerns as well as many more which have been expressed over the last several months we're asking that the ordinance 19-22 3 not be introduced tonight we request that the developers create a new proposal that addresses the citizens concerns and preserves the character and safety of this area of Livingston thank you thank [Applause] you hi Mr Mayor Justin Alper 56 Amhurst place um it's wrong to put our Township manager in the position of putting forward the developers uh proposal we had a great big meeting with the developer we thought the developer was going to be coming back and telling us about his proposal we shouldn't Short change that we should have the developer come back and explain his proposal to us before we put this back on for a hearing and a vote um there's still zero support for this that has to be matter for reflection for this Council if there's no public support and this Council passes the resolution then the council is completely disconnected from the community whom it was elected to serve we have a skilled and educated active engaged Livingston community that is in a very good position to change the course of conduct that has happened over the past 5 years where this Council has acted under duress behind closed doors we need to bring it out into the public and have a CommunityWide conversation about healthy Community Development we need a master plan that makes a common sense to the community there's a due diligence that needs to be done here and if you're not going to do it here it certainly needs to be done on the next project we need to know uh how much the uh developer is investing how much equity they're investing how much debt they will be taking on who is supplying that debt the rate of interest that is going to be on that debt and the return of investment that they're planning on taking this take down from 240 to 210 what is that going to do to the developers return on investment and these are rentals remember the last time the councilman recused himself from uh property development the property was flipped by a democratic Insider who flipped it out to an Ohio insurance company we need some right of first refusal to reclaim the value of the rental property here in the community so it is not flipped out in perpetuity to entities foreign to this community and foreign to this state um there's a lot of construction that is going to be happening in this community a that you have authorized and B that needs to happen in schools and other infrastructure to support the development that you have authorized we really need to be we're building a lot of Apartments we really need to be looking at having a homegrown labor force an organized labor force and the labor force of skilled and educated people we need to know that the Investments that are coming into the community are paying skilled and educated people real living household incomes to do the work that responsibly needs to be done we also need to get together with the school board and determine a responsible rate of growth it should probably be about 2 and a half% per hanom if we have 10,000 households here that's 250 households per year that's a lot but there has to be a coordinated effort between this honorable Council and the school board to actively plan for that and that's something that happens year over year at a growing rate so there's a cons consistent investment in this community and we need to make adjustments at the margins so the cash flows stay in the community taxing comes into play banking comes into play land use regulation comes into play there must be a broader conversation thank you Mr Mayor for leading that appreciate [Applause] it Mr Devin thank you um first of all we appreciate the the the adjustments made um and I want to make it clear it's not as if we're saying there's no Redevelopment in in that area that's appropriate it just may be that if the developers need to put 30 units per acre at the corner of Livingston and Mount Pleasant Avenue that it's not okay and if it has to be 60 feet high that it needs to be turned back it is way out of whack with the regular zoning of the center of town people on our committee who are more closely tied to the Democratic party in Essex County said to us in August it is no use the Town Council Members have already made up their minds about this proposal they are not concerned about the number of units but the only thing that resonated was concerned about the height and I na naively said that it depends on how the members of the Town Council view those who speak out given the number of people who have signed the petitions have written articles to the Tribune and who came to the sep September presentation by the developers that was standing room only you either hear us and see us as citizens who have the best interest of the community at heart or you see us as ignorant people who don't understand what we are talking about and that you know what is better for Livingston either you see yourselves as elected officials who should listen to the people who elected them or you see yourselves as the leaders of the community who understands Community better than we do and what is best for the future of the community in October I came before you and thanked you very much for your service and stated that I'm sure that you volunteer to run for office because you wanted to do what is best for the township I also stated that I'm sure that you were pre present with the proposal with for the Redevelopment at 45 south of VI Avenue you saw you know you saw when you saw this as something that was going to be good for Livingston but I thought that you were going to you heard our concerns and you and you and you took that as respectfully that there really are it's not that we don't want development it is that it is way out of whack for the center of Livingston um I'm going to skip because I only have two minutes left here um I ask do you know anyone who thinks that the current monstrosity that is the Town Center was good for Livingston that was a mistake that might have been a mishap by the Town Council but the five of you will be responsible for this decision that will change downtown Livingston forever if you think people want this more of the Town Center 60ft buildings lining Livingston Avenue then you are out of touch with people with your people and if somehow you think that you know what is better for Livingston than many of us who have grown up here and who are well-educated people with regards to town and urban growth then you are truly out of touch with your constituents I sent all of you a lengthy email highlighting why this proposal does not meet the concerns of the people of living and why you should not introduce this ordinance for all the reasons in my email and for the reasons you will be you will hear tonight we ask that you do not introduce it we are looking to the leadership of the Town Council to maintain the character of our downtown of the Town Council to maintain the character of our downtown and to recognize that this area is already very congested please know that if you approve this proposal as is you are setting a precedent for Livingston Avenue you will no longer be able to say that 30 to 35 units per acre is too dense and doesn't fit the character of downtown nor will you be able to say that 60 feet structures are too high for this part of town in addition you would be approving this plan without an updated traffic study environmental impact study Etc I understand that once you approve a project it then goes to the planning board for a closer more detailed review but then it is too late for the a project that is way outside the current zoning restrictions once the ordinance is approved the developer can sue if you put forth restrictions on the number of units or height that are that are if you put any further restrictions on the units or the height you must set tighter restrictions on the height and density of the project as well as the traffic flow of my time thank you Mr Devin thank you [Applause] Jay Alman six Mount Vernon Court that gentleman just said everything that I was thinking I've never been a politician because it's hard I ask why do people go into public service is it to represent us and Alfred is it to represent us Michael Rosie Ed Jared is it to represent us you're our Representatives we elected you to represent us I sat here at the last meeting and watched I don't know 300 people every person said no you represent us you might be our neighbors maybe you all live in Livingston I don't know what the rules are for being a part of a Town Council you all live in Livingston now I would imagine there's some self-interest in becoming a politician that's fair we have to feed our families and I thank you all for your valued service I found out tonight you get a stien but I found out it's a part-time job you're all working for this job fulltime thank you that's Noble that's amazing you represent us we're busy with our lives but you're doing the work for us thank you but please maybe we want to go and and Sue the builders we want to pay that money in court because we want control of our town that you run for us maybe we want a dollar store have a referendum I don't know what I want I don't know what's best but I'm listening to all these people and they're reasonable and thoughtful and want to do the best for our town please do the best for our town for all of us thank you thank you good evening I'm Cindy Kors brand I live at 34 sherbrook Parkway quite honestly I'm concerned about the entire process when we had a meeting several years ago and talked about first considered Redevelopment the neighbors including myself agreed something had to be done about that property what we didn't understand is that the rezoning of the area would turn it from Strictly commercial which it was at that time to a combination of residential and Commercial shame on us for not understanding those changes to the rezoning but shame on the Town Council for not educating us not walking us through the process and knowing that that could be a possibility I've been a resident since 1965 so I've seen a lot of changes I lived on sherbrook Parkway since 1994 and contrary to the remarks made by the developer of what did you expect you have property adjoining commercial prop property that's exactly what I expected it was commercial it wasn't going to be built up the way that it was and I must say his comments and quite frankly his condescending manner is very Unbecoming an individual that's looking for compromise and not the profit margin despite repeated requests to include the Neighbors in a task force to help you plan a perfect compromise will satisfy no one and we know that but we for that but we've never had any member of the Town Council come to our neighborhood come talk to us sit in my backyard and other communities not so far away from here they have involved the neighbors who are directly impacted in task force I'm not sure why we can't follow that same model I'm also concerned as I was reading through the ordinance on page 31 we were willing to Grant an exemption for parking on the setback why would we do that wouldn't you want my area which is still is still zoned as completely residential why wouldn't we at least maintain the setback not sure why we're going for higher higher Heights than we've had anywhere else in town in such an incredible density and I don't believe that anyone's talked about the environmental impact the traffic study a real really reputable traffic study and including the shade study which would then determine what a 6 foot building how it would impact my property because it would our faith in the process is eroding so I am urging you to put down do not consider this send it back let's fix the broken process Let's do an after actions review of what's happened so far take a look at it reinvent the wheel let's find a compromise work with the citizens go back to the drawing board and come up with a workable solution that would satisfy the needs of Livingston and not just the developer thank you thank you hello my name is James fritzky I'm at 30 sherbrook Parkway facing the property one I agree with everything just to save time I agree with everything that was stated already um I was was at that meeting virtual and I completely agree I only bought this property 5 years ago I was heartbroken hearing the developer speak that way because I bought this property I had no idea that 5 Years From the time I bought it I could be potentially staring at a 60-foot building so I ask that the density is still too large the height is still too high and I raise the same concerns that I have previously privacy safety and no matter I do appreciate the changes made but no matter the amount of trees that are there in the winter those leaves go away and you could see straight through I have concerns light pollution the environmental impacts the shade study everything previously spoken please please reconsider send back to the developer thank you thank you hi Sarah Goldstein 12 Autobon um so I'm not going to reiterate the same things all of my neighbors said I agree with them 100% while there are some changes a reduction of approximately 30 units they're not real noticeable changes that it's 60 feet tall with a peak of 10 feet higher than that that's not real change the school estimate is still wrong there's so many things wrong with this proposal I'm urging you to send it back and the day is finally here we haven't heard a whole lot from you in terms of what actually your opinion is on this matter so we are asking begging you to please stand up and protect the town demand a better and scaled down version of this proposal we do not want individual greed to win over the greater good for this town will you find a creative solution through thoughtful legislative Channel or potentially Community Partnership like we've been discussing or will you let this developer literally ruin our town our schools and our faith and trust in you we have told you we don't want this our are my neighbors are telling you please listen to us we've used science we've used logic we've used reason we've used Community well-being and safety as our rationale and now we all are wondering are you going to listen to the citizens of Livingston or will you literally defer to this greedy developer who only wants to pad his own Pockets thank you just please don't say your address okay just your name thank you hello my name is Jesse and I'm in sixth grade um uh my family and I live adjacent to the property good evening Town Council and my fellow Livingston nightes thank you for holding this meeting to us for us and voicing our opin or and letting us voice our opinions we have lived here for 12 years and a common problem and we all have a common problem there are cars on our street that travel at high speeds we have been asking this town for very simple remedies like having sidewalks speed bumps and speeding enforcement we need you to help us make our streets safe now before we add more development to our neighborhood me and all of the children in Livingston are the future of our town and to implement something this big would impact our lives and the lives of everything here please step up and do what's right for the town not what's right for the developers thank you Jesse J Jess Jesse I we remember you from the the first meeting talking about the speeding on um uh around your area and that next day um our Engineers started working on uh possibly putting some uh some plans together for either speed bumps or or other methods to slow the traffic down um I do know we were talking in our conference meeting today and uh we will do some more police enforcement and um for right now speed bumps take time so we it takes studies with with the engineers so but we are working on the speed bumps and uh we are working on um enforcement as well as putting some um some of those speed signs over there but we did hear you Jesse Jesse at the Jesse at the last meeting and at this meeting it's really tough to get up in front of such an audience in front of your town leaders so I just want to commend you for always coming up being prepared speaking out and always always continue to have your voice I look forward to seeing what you will do in the future Ally hi I'm Ally brief um Brandon Avenue um I'm not as prepared as all of these people I'm going to try to connect the dots for the things that have been um that I've been thinking about and when I was out there um making some notes I saw this little thing that said Livingston for all ages is and then I thought about the Northland pool and then I thought about what the developer had said about oh we want seniors or or no it's singles and it's people coming in and out of the city so one it's all rentals which means we lose the opportunity for over 200 Apartments wor the residents to join our pools because they're going to have a nice fancy five star they're not going to be integrated in that in our community we also got that number of 13 students which seemed insane for that amount do you remember anyone stud they said 13 okay so that means there's no true integration in community as far as the schooling or anything really so are they going to be involved in events or are they going to work in the city come stay right in this little area and their shoppings there everything quick side note does it have to be some big building with all these stores or could it be more town home style two three floors around just you know I don't know I just threw that out there because also you know you're talking about a courtyard again so people are not going into town and if they do want to join the pool they're going to if they're working in the city they're going from concrete to concrete the Hanes pool is concrete you're looking at a brick building the high school so they've come from the city to Livingston the suburbs they still have their downtown but now they can't get away from that except their pool so again they're either at their pool or and not integrated into the town um what else okay so that so now you've got seniors who might be there for a year or hopefully more not using the pool and if they do or wanted to it's not a it's still like a downtown type buildings versus going to the one spot in town besides rker Hill Art Park that's really like nature you know so we're we're cutting out the opportunity for or any kind of integration between the the renters they're not going to you know if they're here a year if they're here five what have they done with the community and I know that a lot of people are saying they move here for the community um so okay sorry rambling what else I um um sorry everyone I think I pretty much covered it I just think really that there's just a disconnect and that it doesn't have to be some you know it can still be just as nice in five star but it doesn't need to be some huge 60 okay we want to have PL maybe three like three floors but not not you know what I'm saying like I'm saying okay I'm gonna just stop I think thank you Ali those are not M sure I'll remember hi everyone I'm Jane ratov skaya um a court um I I just want to obviously agree with everyone with everything everyone said I think it's shocking to even try to imagine such a huge building on that lot in such a quiet lovely community like we are I find it truly shocking that we are even here that we are considering this huge project in the middle of town in the middle of already such traffic issues around the morning commute and the evening commute that we are all experiencing you guys also live here to be trying to add to that in such a huge way um I want to specifically of course talk about our schools I think the argument that there's going to be 13 kids living there is very very hard to believe um this is a family community to imagine singles living here I mean if there was at least a train station but there isn't to have singles choose this as a place to live what iVision is going to happen at the end of this if we move forward is that into these one bedroom or two-bedroom units you're going to have families cramming in um with kids and what that's going to result is seriously affecting our schools um I'm in the Harrison District with small kids kindergarten and already comparing to nearby towns you're supposed to have 22 kids in a Kindergarten class well when I talk to the principal of of Harrison he says well I can never have more than less than 25 and I'm like I I I don't understand the rule is 22 he's like yeah but we can't we can't fit the kids so already they have at least 25 kids and then what happens is of course you have a zoo a drop off and pickup which is dangerous frustrating and then on top of this you have kids that are zoned for a school but can't get into that school and so instead they go to another school across town they are picked up an hour and a half before the start of school and they're just sitting on that bus on the way in and on the way out because there's no space for them at their school already and I just think that that's outrageous our schools can't handle this our traffic can't handle this what are you guys thinking I mean one of the biggest values of this community is a really strong school system the hard work of our teachers the hard work of all the investment the hard work of the parents that are involved to make these schools be one of the best school districts and then you're going to overcrowd it and ruin all that which of course will ruin the community as well because that is the reason people love Livingston one of the biggest reasons why they move here is our amazing school district and it's already just bursting at the seams there's so many different ways to develop real estate I think you know if this committee would have said no this is too big this is not what the community supports there would be other developers proposing other uses other commercial uses that the city would rally behind and I think it is the question of whatever that property is worth to make it worth for that developers and I think whoever owns the land and sells the land will adjust the price downward if there is no option to selling add astronomical value to this developer thank you guys just listen to us please thank [Applause] you Stephan lurman 34 morning Side Drive uh celebrating I'm in the town going on 27 years never really played any uh close attention to uh the political scene or you know Town Council meetings or whatever until like the last few years where you know I've started to look into what's going on as far as with this development you know as far as other issues um conflicts of interest and be become very very disturbed by this whole situation uh I've been in the building construction industry for like 30 plus years I've had relatives who were developers very similar to uh to the uh developer are you the developer I got here late I'm sorry so so I I I didn't so very very familiar with developments and studies I've done a lot of work in New York haven't done any work in uh in in New Jersey over the years but um you know I feel for for the people here the young people bought their homes here you know my constituents I live in Reicher Hill unfortun you know my kids are out of the school district these people came here to buy homes and um now that's something that is going to be built that's going to you know affect the value of their home affect the livelihood I definitely can appreciate what they're saying as far as with the overcrowding in the schools um you know having portable units is something that you would never Envision here in Livingston maybe in New York City Schools but not here which I think is totally you know totally unacceptable um I've read about what's been going on over at the uh cross the tree from Sams and you know that's to me also is totally unacceptable you know and some of the uh the issues that have been brought up in the newspapers or some of my friends on Facebook Also regarding some other incidents regarding Town Council uh issues and matters is just totally totally unacceptable so um I just want to voice my concerns here and um you know as far as with all the uh my constituents in here with regards to uh this type of development going up you know my position is is that yes you know you should reconsider it very very very closely and you are elected officials you do work you know you know on behalf of the town it's your it's your time it's all greatly appreciated and you've done a great things in in other areas but this particular subject matter needs to be uh addressed and reflect the uh the sentiments of the town thank you thank you is there anyone else who would like to uh make comment good evening and thanks for the opportunity Rich Steiner bford Avenue first I want to apologize I'm the who put the wrong information on uh on ltown Lowdown I must have slept through the class on agenda reading and thought this was a second reading I apologize um not going to repeat a lot of the things that everybody said those points have all been made I want to point out that part of what we do is especially and an approval like this pertains to the master plan want to quote from some of the issues in the master plan or comments so all provisions of the Redevelopment shall be substantially consistent or designed to effectuate the master plan a main objective is primarily a single family residential Community while recognizing the need for a variety of two family and multifam uh residences um in appropriate location appropriate locations being the key word this is not an appropriate location um it goes on to say to provide space in appropriate locations while maintaining neighbor neighborhood Integrity Community stability and character this development fits none of those criteria also talks about affordable housing um to be inclusionary this plan gives the opportunity not to have in inclusionary housing on this for affordable housing um they've talked about the height and the density creating precedents which once this is approved if it's approved can never be taken back that's a serious problem um parking based on the number of units being presented now you're going to have between 500 and 600 parking spaces to meet the requirement based on the RSI and our current codes um the accesses out of the property currently are either Livingston Avenue and they talk about two accesses onto Arden that would have to end up going through the bank property but to do that Anto ardan is going to end up sending this traffic through the residential neighborhood which is contrary to what you want to do also talks about an opportunity to work with the neighbor to maybe get access to um Livingston Avenue um based on the fact that when that same group came to Bottle King to see if they would allow them access through their property the answer there was no I don't know if they're going to be very Cooperative in this instance and they don't have to be um items not included that should be considered is um there is no mention of the breakdown of affordable housing as to the number of one-bedroom two bedroom three bedroom um not mentioned in the plan um an an an important piece of information because school kids end up coming from that end um it talks about on the market ready 40% for one bedroom 45 for two bedroom there's 5% missing somewhere I have no idea what the intention of that 5% would be um there's no if a Redevelopment plan is approved then the opportunity somewhere down the road to give a pilot exist there's no exclusion of that happening in this plan and I know it's a concern of the um residents um also things like you know how garbage is going to be recycled it's items that come up before the planning board on a a regular basis so thank you for your time Mr Diner thank you Mr Diner I just have Mr [Applause] Diner I just wanted to address a couple of the things that you brought up you are the chair of the track correct correct did this come through the track did this project come through the track sure they do did was it it for before it came to us it had to have been approved by the track or the changes had to come through the track and disc discussed no they were never discussed at track this project hasn't gone to the track yet it it doesn't get assigned to track until there's a site plan application F I'm going to get there and if once this is approved then this ordinance becomes concrete and the track has very little that it can do to change many of the things that are already set in here well the many of the items that you just outlined do they come before the planning board for discussion and addressing some of them could density certainly wouldn't height wouldn't setback wouldn't uh traffic parking parking number of parking no it's set out based on what you have in here right and is that based on the law it's based on what's allowed on the number of units and the size of the project is it not the planning board's responsibility to ensure that this plan addresses the master plan that this project addresses the master plan to the fullest extent possible when it comes back to us assum uming that the if this gets approved on a first reading it's supposed to come to the master plan the master the the planning board has the opportunity at that point to uh comment with regard to its meeting the master plan yes correct okay thank you I just wanted to make sure official dep thank you do anybody else want to give uh make comment uh my name is Doug Donovan I live at 92 North Livingston Avenue which uh lies between uh rout 10 and uh in our case 280 uh our concern is traffic we currently have a real challenge I can tell you with especially rush hour in the morning and in the afternoon getting out of our driveway at certain times um we have a problem with traffic with we can't cross uh the kidss can't cross North Livingston Avenue safely without walking about a half mile down to Harrison school where they attend and crossing over there where they have a traffic light where you can push the button and have it change or up to like what's it corillian Circle up to Town Center so it's a hike just to be able to cross over um so you know people do try to cross but I can tell you there's a curve there and you have a lot of traffic coming from Town Center up towards 280 at 40 m an hour coming around the curve cutting into the shoulder so right now we have um concerns about that um not only pulling in and out of the drive out of the driveway uh at rush hour but also children Crossing either on foot or on bicyle or on bicycles in terms of this project um uh I I just see that exacerbating that problem at rush hour um during the day I I don't see you know a big issue um I will uh and not I'm not real familiar with what the proposal or the plan was or anything but I can just uh Echo a question that this gentleman just asked and I'm not against development I'm all for it I'm all for apartment uh I I spent spent most of my years in South Orange you know we have a train station but we have a lot of buildings going up apartments condos it's great for the town but we have that town center it's great um you know there is some impact on the school system but with one and two bedrooms we don't consider it to be uh that much of an issue um but the um I just lost my train of thought so excuse me um oh the question that this gentleman asked was why here why this specific property for this type of a development um you have a relatively and even during the day sometimes but especially during rush hour uh when we go up you know towards Northfield or up towards Northfield Avenue or coming back depending which rush hour it is it's very congested it's very congested um and I just seeing this exacerbating it if you're going to have 600 cars in there five whatever it is so my question would be why this property I mean developers there's and I don't know your master plan but I'm um guessing or assuming maybe incorrectly that you have other areas um that are more accessible to roads like Eisenhower Parkway or something where it's not as congested where the it's not going to impact the traffic as much especially during rush hour uh as it does where we live on North Livingston Avenue velocity I can tell you in the morning going up to Harrison School uh that traffic gets backed up because of that Crossing light where the kids walk across to the school it gets backed up all the way up to Coran Circle when that right uh light turns red okay so I don't know if your traffic Studies have uh considered that um I would say that they should and um that's it thank you thank [Applause] you does this work hi Jennifer Kesler 44 Baker Road I reiterate what so many of my neighbors have expressed with respect to this type of development not development personally I do think the blighted area it does need to be addressed we moved here in 2015 my now 10th grader was in second grade and we were told by hnis at the board of ed the whole town is soft bordered and we moved to Livingston for these schools not a specific school I have immense concerns with the impact this is going to have to the school district as a whole my younger child sitting back there in the audience is now in fifth grade at rker Hill Elementary I believe in rker Hill she's the only grade with three sections there are now 24 students per class she has told me there is no common recess meaning the grades can only play with themselves they can't a fifth grader can't play with a fourth grader at recess Mr Tumi has given up his principal's office there's no Spanish teacher classroom anymore she travels from class to class there are so many kindergarteners that there are two fifth graders times for one kindergarten buddy because there aren't enough to go around and there are now 530 students in the school and what we remain incredibly happy with the quality of the education our children are receiving I would be lying if I said that this development doesn't leave me with grave concerns about the best resource this town has to offer thank you thank you Jennifer Larry rashman 15 Autobon Road uh I appreciate everything my neighbors have said and all I have heard about this project is negative so I just have one question can you tell me how this project benefits our town anybody thank you um I'm just I'm gonna I'm gonna say [Applause] how right right now all I've been hearing for years is that we have an empty storefronts empty storefronts in that location with no commercial space if I could tell you one benefit and that's not to say that there aren't I'm not listening to what you're saying you've asked me for one benefit is that it is our hope that those commercial spaces that will be on the bottom will be filled and that we will be able to have a more diverse places to shop eat and go to um which we need in our town we need more Commerce and we need those spaces to not be fill to be empty as they have been for years and I totally agree with you I'm just giving you one reason no I agree with you i' like to respond to that and and when I moved in there were stores there and and we use them and I don't know why they left and and then you're telling me that the the same developer who allowed those stores to leave or push them out is going to bring stores here so it's kind of hard for me to believe that and I get that I understand that but he's been trying to build this for 5 years as well so he's not going to lease out this space in hopes that this opportunity of being able to build here goes into effect so while I can understand that you asked me for one benefit I gave you one right and I'm arguing think he's doing a good job but that's one benefit okay one benefit congratulations thank you is there anyone else who' like to uh make comment no sorry Ally no that's fine I that's why I asked good evening everyone um Susan Park 44 East Drive I just want to Echo what everyone has said here and support what everyone has said in terms of their concerns about the development uh I don't want to repeat myself or what other people have been saying I know it's late um my thoughts are that you know this is not the only controversial development that's happening here it's happening in other towns it's and um this is probably not the only one that we're going to face here obviously in Livingston we're probably going to face more and more my suggestion is that we do it in a more methodical way and also in a more interactive way I know you're up there we're down here but I also know that you guys care you're obviously elected it takes time I've been to more Town Council meetings over the past few months than I have you know over the last 20 years and I know it takes a lot of time and I know you do you obviously do care about the people and we really care about our town as well and um when the developer did speak it was was definitely a little on a condescending side um so have it be a more more methodical more interactive process and in terms of the website maybe have what the difference is between this new proposal versus the old proposal what the difference is in the ROI you know what's the difference in terms of the cost what's the difference in the environmental impact and lay it out so that people can really see it and buy into it because this is not going to be the only very controversial development that we face and we need to set a process for future uh very you know controversial developments going on in the future and so we need to have a buy in I think and this is going to be even worse I mean if you're having trouble listening to us imagine this is going to happen over and over again unless we have a more transparent process and that's just you know my suggestion thank [Applause] you is there anyone else who would like to make comment hi uh Boris kvi 23 Autobon Road and I work at 29 North Livingston Avenue um so I'd like to Echo what several people here have said I don't want to waste time doing that we're just going to ask going off of a theme that some others have have already asked are you guys Livingston because we are we are Livingston the people talking to you this is my third time coming third time speaking and I'm one of hundreds we are Livingston are you guys what is it that you want for Livingston because we know what we want this isn't it what we want sure those stores I walk by them plenty of times it's ugly that they're standing there empty is this better is this more attractive no it's completely different it is not integrated with the overall design of the town if there even is one but it's such a huge departure it looks like another city entirely it doesn't match what's across the street from it it doesn't match in any direction it will add to the traffic we are so so all of us worried about the schools because that's why the majority of us move here at this point so I ask you are you Livingston or are you a Town Council that's disjointed from the people who are talking to you for the last several months now saying we don't want this so yeah let's build something but let's build something we are all proud of um something that lifts up our so-called downtown and our entire town let's build beautiful commercial that attracts Shoppers from other towns let's build residences that enhance Our Town let's do it responsibly let's do it respect respectfully let's do it sustainably let's vote for the Livingston we all want and this is not it thank you thank you is there anyone else who like to make comment may have a motion to close the public comment perod may have a second may have a may have a second uh all in favor opposed okay at this time there are uh we're moving on to uh passages of ordinances uh tonight there are no ordinances for second reading however we do have an ordinance to introduce um Carolyn can you please read ordinance number 19-20 23 by title ordinance 19- 2023 adopting the 45 South Livingston Avenue District Redevelopment plan pursuant to the local Redevelopment and Housing law may have a motion to approve ordinance number 19-23 by introduction and fix a DAT for the second reading and public hearing I have a second second is there any discussion seeing Oh is there any discussion you can yes Council gets a comment at this point while the residents May believe that their voices weren't heard by this Council the council did put the breaks on this originally when you came out and objected together with the bill we did have a real sitdown the meeting that meeting began with calling the Builder a greedy developer and condenscending as a result I believe the Builder listened and did address and fix some of the concerns of the residents the Project's evolution of compromise includes reduced units starting from 420 where the project began now down to 210 along with reduced height increase setbacks more trees and improve traffic patterns this will move now to the planning board to the track and they will ensure that this follows our master plan it will be a top Revenue generator for Livingston modernizing the downtown area while bringing pedestrian customers to a whole downtown Marketplace area in addition this project doesn't get more local it is a fellow Livingston resident I'm I I was asked to be respectful in the beginning of all the council members were asked I'm not done with my statement I would appreciate if I would get that same respect um in addition this project doesn't get more local it's a fellow Livingston resident who has an impeccable reputation for not only building quality projects but also for retaining them in their portfolio and ensuring local control all of these benefits for me outweigh any drawbacks our town is popular it is Progressive our schools are amazing growth is inedible to say mystifying the value of our planning board I'm not sure about that I've sat on the planning board for a full year now I can tell you that every member takes that very seriously and I would say there will be continued discussions on this project our community must not fear growth or progress for a healthy and Vibrant Community involves adapts and ensures that everyone is welcomed leadership is about knowing how to move a community forward listening and making hard choices for the good of all this is a time for smart development and I am making a hard Choice by avoiding yes to move this forward thank you thank you sir any other comments so the only other comment that I would have is uh you know you look at the uh the Park View Apartments on uh Eisenhower Parkway and a and a lot of and aot I'm speaking and a lot of people and a lot of people say that there there really really a lot of Apartments there however this Council said no and the Builder took us to court and we lost and then we filed an appeal and we lost and that Builder got every single thing that he wanted take a look at the Dubrow uh the Hillside Club this Council said No and when I say this Council I don't mean us here I mean This Town Council said no the Builder took us to court we lost I'm I'm speaking and at this point uh we appealed and we lost again okay and that Builder got everything that they they wanted and the py homes on Kushner they were going to take us to court and we negotiated a little bit just to bring those numbers down a little bit and you know what if this project does not move forward I can guarantee that in two years instead of 210 units you will see 600 units and that is the truth so Madam Clair could you please proceed with the roll call please council member mhart yes council member boli yes Deputy Mayor Anthony mayor Vieira yes so Carolyn could you set a uh a date yes mayor the uh final uh reading for this ordinance will be November 27th 2023 at 7:30 p.m. thank you at this point we're gone to the consent agenda matters listed with an asct are considered to be may maybe take a 5 minute oh I'm sorry let's get the mayor may I suggest a five minute may I suggest a short recess we're going to take a five a five minute break this is all their last time serving the that must [Music] be not representing us zero public you guys are on your own it doesn't sound like it everyone has said no but you see the benefits you know better than us not make that mistake in the pockets of the developer she's going towhere else anyway so it's her last ter congratulations can make she doesn't go anywhere change that law take we have the ability to change the law we've been f for years to change the lawange where you're not allowed to build such a monstrosity here you can build you you have the moral authority to change the law there is bipartisan support across the state change the law living needs to claim a leadership position Ed you said you're leaving soon right of course you'll rent maybe in the new place and then you'll have your exit strategy let's put it to vote let's put it to a vote how about a referendum for this project support and you will see 99% of people are against it how is this not negligent do the business owners live in Livingston did they live in Livingston the business owners let us hear from them where where are they let us get testimonials give us a list of those people so we can talk to them we would love to hear from them right now it's just words we're not yelling and screaming but we're not being heard yell screaming sorry we're not being heard when you're not heard you start to yell you just you just ignored us for two meetings yes yes yes yes maybe let's see if we can rally the whole town let the rally in the oval for you guys to hear us what do we have to do to be heard is the planning board meeting open when's the planning board meeting we've got to get a thousand people to the planning board meeting but you could have also sent it back could have also it back it back toy 60 we said no 60 it is it is still 60t 60 Rosie he said it Barry I know no listen it's 60 High he didn't change it he said he was going to cut a floor off and it's still 60t why don't we send it back is it 21st [Music] meeting is Council is back in session we are going to go to the consent in general all matters listed with an asct are considered to be routine noncontroversial by the council and will be approved in one motion there will be no separate discussions on these items unless a member of the governing body so requests in which case the item will be removed from the consent agenda and considered in its normal sequence on the agenda as part of general orders uh Madam CL can you please read all the resolutions uh on the consent agenda by title and resolution number certainly mayor resolution 23235 authorizing the township of Livingston to accept a subgrant award of the federal fiscal year 2023 of Emergency Management performance Grant and Emergency Management agency assistance resolution 23236 authorizing submission of a Grant application to New Jersey DCA fiscal year 24 American Rescue plan firefighter Grant resolution 23237 authorizing the award of a contract to Mt McDonald LLC resolution 23238 authorizing approval of change order number one with arcadis us Inc resolution 23239 authorized a contract extension with PDM group resolution 23240 authorizing the sale of surplus property for solar renewable energy certificates resolution 23241 authorizing disposition of surplus vehicle resolution 23242 authorizing the award of a contract to Hawk Graphics Inc resolution 23243 authorizing a contract with Enterprise Fleet Management resolution 23244 by partisan committee resolution 23245 2023 budget appropriation transfers resolution 23246 formalizing Township custom for bunting the US flag at Town Hall resolution 233-247 waving 2 2022 interest in yearend penalty on block 1900 L 2.01 2102 2103 due to inadvertent non- billing do any members of the council wish abiding items removed from the consent agenda for separate discussion uh if we could move the uh the the flag um uh uh sorry 20 uh 246 just for a separate discussion please sure thank you okay so may I have a motion to approve uh the resolutions uh remaining on the consent agenda okay uh Madame clerk roll call council member mhart yes Klein yes boli yes Deputy Mayor Anthony yes mayor viea yes okay uh Carolyn um may I have a um a motion to move resolution 23- 246 have a make the motion discussion or so uh so uh no we don't have to read it again so we discussion so yep all in favor for discussion discussion discussion yeah I just I just want to say I know that the council was approached by um in the past by some people this this is a um a resolution that formalizes um The process by which when uh someone passes away in town uh who has been uh is an active police officer or someone that's served in the past uh according to certain criteria uh and um formalizing um that uh bunting will be put up and that a flag will be brought uh to half M and uh the the Le family have reached out to uh to me and to other members of the council um when uh when um mind's father died Frank um it would they thought it would be very meaningful to them to have uh bunting put up uh on the uh front of the building um and and we were really happy to be able to give them some Solace and uh even a small ceremony as performed by the town um was really meaningful uh to to their family and um we just thought it was important to make sure that uh we had it in place for the next time so that um when other people uh really find this to be a meaningful thing thing for them and and and it should be meaningful where it's important to the town to recognize uh people who have been in service to the town uh even you know especially heroic people who are firemen um you know it's really our it's really uh the town's pleasure and our solemn duty to honor them uh and uh this this resolution helps us to do that so I I vote Yes on this thank you any other discussion so Madam clerk it was moved it was second it uh can we have a roll quote please council member mhart yes Klein yes bolie yes yes Deputy Mayor Anthony yes mayor viea yes at this time we are at the public portion on any subject may have a motion to open the public portion on any subject is been moved may I have a second all in favor yes opposed the meeting is now opened on any subject with a three minute time limit uh if you come up to the microphone can we please have your name for the record hi Mr Mayor Justin Alpert 56 am H Place uh wow another one of these meetings another one of these meetings with the day is totally disconnected from the electorate not one single speaker in Support over the course of two meetings on this and this isn't new we've been dealing with this issue for the past five years and every time a development comes up every time it's our hands were tied there's a gun to our head there's a builder's remedy it's going to come and we give into fear we are Livingston New Jersey we are the 39th uh wealthiest town in the state there is bipartisan support across the state to change these laws because they are not working Livingston ought to be taking a leadership position with respect to this development with respect to the other developments follow the money the concent rtion of real wealth in apartment rentals in this town is not a good idea you've already moved the affordable apartments off site there is no market rate in an oligopoly and that's what we have here the developer sat in the back silently knowing that he knowing that he had your votes in the pocket it's time for us to choose a more powerful form of government with an elected mayorip that is backed by the moral authority of the community to fight for the values of this community need three at large council members five Regional Council Members and the mayor providing the ninth vote let's take control we have the ability to invest in our community we have the ability to use healthy development to lower our property taxes the stores that we build can support real living household incomes for the people who live and work in this community there's a lot more work that needs to be done this council is completely disconnected from the electorate it's time for a new approach thank you Mr Mayor thank you anybody else uh would like to give testimony or I mean so sorry make comment hi thugg Donovan again I just want to go back to that question on the traffic um I just want to can you answer a question that I ask you um so if we believe there's a problem now okay and we experience it every day um aside from this um development what is the what would be the proc I know it's a county road right what's the procedure for us to bring it to what authority to have it looked at and considered for some remedy that would help out somehow is it through the Town Council here is it us me as a Essex County residents going to the county how how does that work yeah so obviously it is a county road as you recognize if you're limiting your question specifically Livingston Avenue um we can certainly assist we can help we we regularly dialogue with the County engineer uh recently based on that dialogue changes were made to the timing in the light in the signal at mlen uh which has improved that condition uh they're generally receptive um we can definitely reach out to them both as to the traffic and you raised and I made some notes Here of uh your concerned about pedestrian Crossings and the fact your children have to walk all the way to Harriston just across the street whether there's an opportunity to put in additional you know pedestrian Crossings with the lights along the way and and um I will certainly I I took notes while you were speaking and and uh I can reach out to the County engineer and raise those concerns and get that dialogue going and if you'd like to be part of the process I can certainly offer to the engineer that you know if he wants to hear firsthand from you your experiences I I'm happy to I don't want to offer that unless you want to yeah so um thank you sure um so for me to follow up um my hearing is not the best so I missed a part of that it's not you not speaking loud enough that's okay but uh should I uh how do I follow up to see what's happening in your Barry after the meeting why don't you give uh I can give you my card to follow up obviously as a resident you have the ability to call the county engineer yourself however if it comes I think from the whole town it probably carries a little more weight and gets his ear more uh so yeah I'm happy I can give you my card and and follow up or give me your email okay thank you thank you is there anybody else would like to give a comment make comment obviously um I can express my my disappointment in in the in the whole process um and uh I don't see how that property is the place for 30 to 35 units and 65 ft High um Miss Bagley I'm kind of little surprised that you didn't know that it was 60 feet high um and it's way out of character for that area I understand that now it's going to the planning board I think it's is it November 21st at 7 at 7:30 p.m. is there mean that November the 20 that's here 2 meting planard so the planning board the application wouldn't happen unless until the ordinance was adopted and then there would be a planning board application wait I think I thought 27th is what I think the date no hold on a second Mia thought that this was now going to go to track hold on a second because I think Count Council you mentioned the 21st no I have onar but it's not it's not before the planning board yet no the 27th is the council meeting that would be the public hearing if the council adopts the ordinance then the applican step once you it would be to file a site plan application with the planning board at that point on on larger and complex uh applications they refer it to the track the technical review advisory committee that Mr Diner spoke of uh that is a committee largely made up of uh representatives of Township departments water fire police who review it and express any concerns they have turning radiuses for fire trucks traffic Etc uh and then then it would go to the plan that happens after the 27th after you guys assuming the ordinance is adopted it could be at then the balls in the developers Court to submit a complete application and full-blown plan so that could be a month from now or six months from now or the Town Council woman was was was misunderstood she thought that after we after this it was going to go to the planning board and that restrictions could be placed on this including no meet they send to the planning board to determine whether it meets the master plan then comes back and there's full development and there's a full plan presented to the planning board then you can come in for discussion Barry can you can you stop my time for a few for a few seconds because while you guys figure this out what the process is right now got you because you were trying to so so Barry the question is is this going to the planning board on the 21st to get the stamp approval that it meets the master plan this ordinance the more dense version already went to the planning board had his review and got a report back so that step in the process has occurred so the actual the where she talked about questions where they'd review traffic and Landscaping and all that that happens in connection with a site plan hearing that will if the ordinance is adopted on the 27th then it's up to the applicant to file an application it's got to be complete there's a checklist they have to have tra traffic uh reports they have to have environmental impact statements they have to file all that stuff that could happen in three months it could be in N9 months but that all happens after you approve it so you're going to approve this and this is the deal and I just want to make want to clarify because I want to make sure that we're saying the correct thing to you because I said something and I want to make sure that my understanding has always been that when we approve on first ORD goes to the m to the planning board we're hearing that we received information that says because it was already the more dense plan was already approved because this is a more condensed plan it does not need to go back correct okay so so you guys so therefore every everybody just put their put their right and that's a little concerning right that that at least one council member voted to prove this thinking that there could still be some changes made well there are changes that could be made at the actual planning not this not the not the one just to approve the master plan that's one that goes before the second hearing there will be this will have to go through the planning board but but what I wrote to you in my email and what I explained is once you guys approve that 210 units plus the affordable at the 60 ft high that we can't that the planning board can't change that the planning board if you decide to go less if the planning board gets this and says hey the traffic no it can't go out on Arden or it can't do right it then they could change some things about setbacks but but the developer can sue then so it is going to be 210 units at 60 feet high unless he decides differently so right that's because the planning board mean the planning board can only can only do other things so environmental impact shade study traffic study if they say the planning board says oh this is a bad thing for traffic right that all happens after you've already approved it so I'm really frustrated that the Town Council hasn't taken that cons into consideration okay thank you thank you is there anyone else just real quick real quick question the the you guys will have the meeting on the 27th and really doesn't need to be a public hearing because you guys already heard our concerns but will you change the location if we get a large group people or you guys just going to vote through anyway it doesn't matter how many hundreds of people come out no no I didn't mean location the I me location of the meeting on meeting will be held in in council chambers mean or you just is it just guess thank you is there anybody else who would like to make comment madam clerk have you uh received any written uh comments yes mayor I have received two the first is from pry Romano tempos Lane good evening to all Town Council Members while I know this is much business tonight on the building going on in town I have a question about something else I would like to know if since the Kevin meany Police Department lawsuit came to light has any independent party talked with him about how his working conditions have been both since the lawsuit became public and in the ensuing months since then as a hardworking and dedicated member of our police Police Department for years I think that this would be a basic common courtesy for us as a town to extend to him if we can assume for a moment that there was potentially some wrongdoing enough for a lawsuit to be filed then do we have any concerns as a t as a town to how this day-to-day working conditions have been also separately the more Millan presentation certainly caused much concern has anyone checked with this young woman to see how she is doing as a woman myself the behavior she described was quite violating and I would hope that there would be some significant followup with her personally as well these questions are important to our humanity and who we are as a community thank you for your time and consideration and then um I did receive another comment from Scott kessle 3 Eli Court um I came across numerous articles in the West Essex Tribune detailing a lawsuit involving detective Kevin melany and several members of the LPD and the township manager some of the allegations involved defamation unlawful retaliation adverse employment actions and negligent supervision as a result of a detective melan's whistleblowing actions there were also rep reported violations of laws rules and regulations within the LPD which were not remedied if these allegations are indeed proven to be true I'm embarrassed and ashamed to be a member of the Livingston Community I moved to Livingston in 2017 so my kids could get a good education but also because because I heard great things about the town one of the things mentioned was the wonderful Police Department I have not had one bad experience with the LPD and have never been treated poorly by any police officer the officers my family have inter and my family have interactions are always nice friendly and courteous I have the utmost respect for police and support police in any way I can especially in Livingston I'm also raising my kids to be the same that is why when I read the article about detective millen's lawsuit it was very UNS disappointing and I was upset this was happening since I have known detective meany my family and I have only had positive experiences and interactions with him I knew D detective melany had many different and important responsibilities within lptd excuse me lpj I always wondered what happened because he used to be very involved in school security and community policing during the school year I did not see him working with schools as much or being involved with the community I now know why I want it to be known my admiration and appreciation for detective meany a remarkable individual who has left a permanent impact on the community and my family in particular he is respectful honest professional and treats everyone Fair he just makes everyone around him a better person detective melany is a definite is definitely a valuable asset and I hope the LPD has the same sentiment my family looks forward to seeing detective millenni grow within the ranks of LPD because I know for sure he's greatly deserving of it I have never met a harder working dedicated person to his job as detective melenas to me this embodies and is the epitome of what a police officer is all about lastly and unrelated to the lawsuit involving detective millenni in the LPD is what happened with Detective melan's sister MOA as I watched the video of Mora speak in front of the Town Council at their meeting on September 7th I was deeply Disturbed at the alleged sexual harassment that had occurred I hope that this matter is being investigated if found to be true this Sergeant be reprimanded and held accountable for his actions as a son brother and father to a daughter there is no place in the society for this type of behavior Scott Kastle thank you thank you Carolyn may have a motion to close the public portion on any subject no moves may have a second second all in favor opposed none thank you at this time we're at the reports from the township officials and professionals uh Barry do you have anything to add uh nothing beyond what we discussed in conference um Deputy Township manager Russ Jones anything assistant Township manager Adam Lerner nothing tonight um our CFO an coochi cler Carolyn mooka anything nothing for me mayor thank you uh Township attorney jarro caner anything uh nothing tonight mayor thank you thank you so now we're on Council comments uh council member Ed mhart thank you mayor uh just a couple things um on the 19th of November the town will have our annual Interfaith service uh in light of what's going on in the world today I think it's wonderful and I hope we can see many many people come out at 5:00 I believe it's at the um I forgot Trinity Church Trinity Church thank you mayor I hope that the entire Community will come out I think it's a wonderful time to show support of who we are together as a town so I look forward to seeing everybody there um and following up on that I do wish everybody a very happy and meaningful Thanksgiving we will not be meeting until after Thanksgiving so hope everybody has a safe and meaningful holiday and uh finally I would like to to uh congratulate my fellow councilwoman and now assembly woman uh elect Rosie boli on her election last year thank you thank you councilman uh council member Sean Klein anything uh I just wanted to um wish a belated uh Veterans Day a happy uh Veterans Day for everyone who was um paying attention and uh and uh giving some thanks to our veterans um I was in Washington DC over the weekend uh with my kids uh going to Congress and going to the White House so we we got to see the commander-in-chief which was exciting uh but I did miss um some of the veteran ceremonies which I am loathed to do um because I I think those guys in town are just fantastic and I'm always sorry to miss anything that they're doing uh besides that um happy devali and um thank you thank you council member Klein uh councilwoman boli um good evening everyone thank you so much for your support and your congratulations this evening I look forward to representing all of our residents and their needs in Trenton um I do want to make a comment I have received a message that there's some and messages of things that I've been seeing why does Rosie talk with such disdain to Residents right I don't believe I do I believe I just actually talk and I answer your questions and I sit here and I listen and sometimes I respond back it's really hard to be a woman on the single woman on the council and have people make misogynistic comments that I must be controlled by the gentleman on this Council or that the votes are being I'm being told how I have to proceed I have stood my ground when I felt it has been necessary for example the Northville Health Livingston property did not receive a pilot because I stood my ground and voted no to sending it to the planning board and it's being built today to make comments to rile up residents simp because I voted on something that I have studied researched and believe will be good for the town and voted my conscience which is what you put me here to do and then make comments that are often made of women right she's angry she has disdain for the people in Residence look at how she speaks no look at how I'm speaking I am actually talking to you and not I could choose to be quiet the entire evening and not say a single word and still vote my conscience but I'm sitting here representing you listening to you responding back you may not like what I have to say and that's the beauty of discourse but that doesn't mean I'm angry and that doesn't mean I don't speak on behalf of the residents and that doesn't mean that I don't care so it's okay to sit behind your computers and make misogynistic comments to inflame a situation where people are already emotional but it's not okay to continue to refer to women in this way I am the single woman on this Council but none of these members control me or tell me what to do and I do not profit from the chair that I have with that being said I'd like to wish all the veterans a happy veter belated Veterans Day and a Happy Diwali to all who celebrate thank you thank you councilwoman deputy mayor uh uh just briefly uh congrats uh assembly woman uh on the successful election um happy belated Veterans Day thank you for your service all the veterans out there um we all know that freedom isn't free uh Happy Dali and Happy Thanksgiving everyone thanks thank you Deputy Mayor and and and Rosie again congratulations and I I can tell you that nobody tells you what to do I you well I I'm making sure I'm saying that into the microphone so again I want to uh remind the residents that uh the leaves are falling and there's a schedule to follow regarding the leaves uh in the street do not put them into the street put them on the curb they should should only go into the street about a foot into the street please do not cover the sore grates and the fire hydrants uh if you need to know a um when your town when the town is going to pick up your leaves uh you can go onto our website also the uh the West X6 Tribune I I believe is also having the uh the schedule I do again uh as as uh everybody said uh wish everybody a Happy Thanksgiving the veterans we celebrated for three days in a row with our wonderful veterans uh Friday we had a great lunch with them um Saturday we had a um a service in this council chambers and Sunday we had a another service at Bet Shalom and you know what what I said at Bet Shalom is that we should honor our veterans every single day not just Veterans Day um also um I want to thank uh Mark I think it's sha waterer um Sha Sha wer um he had a again every year he has a Holocaust Education uh walk around the oval um another great event and uh we thank him for uh for for for uh continuing to do that uh we had a Dali celebration um a couple of days ago uh wishing everybody a happy dwali um and at this time we are not going back into um a conference because we are done so may have a motion to adjourn and the next meeting will be November 27th I'll make the motion second all in favor I oppos thank you right