[Music] Well, there you are. All right. Good evening. This is a special meeting of Livingston's planning board and notice of this meeting has been published in accordance with the open public meetings act.
>> Thank you, Jackie. If you can tell uh please uh call the role. >> Sure. Mr. Rner >> here. >> Miss F >> here. >> Mr. Duffford >> here. Miss Vishnu >> here. >> Miss Kana >> here. >> Vice Chair Santo >> here. >> Chairman Fernandez
>> here. >> We do have a quorum. Mr. Reaver, Mr. Diner, Mr. Lewis, and Mr. Bhutani are not present this evening. We also have our board attorney and our planner consultant. >> Thank you. And if you can just if you can call the first matter, please. That matter
scheduled for this evening is preliminary and final site plan with variance for application number 2025-80-PFSPV 615 South Livingston Avenue in the B1 zone Swim Quest LLC. >> Thank you.
Mr. Pasado, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. >> My name is Matthew Patada and I'm from the law firm SS Cummus and Gross and I represent the applicant that's here tonight uh Swim Quest LLC in connection with this application for site plan approval, but most specifically for the
C variance relief related to signage. I want to remind the board that this application itself is not for a full site plan approval, but rather just limited just the proposed signage we have and those variances that get triggered along there with it. As of right now, if you were to drive past the
site, you would see that the proposed uh building question is a proposed fully developed and occupied building has a swim quest right there in occupation as an endcap right next to the gas station. What we're looking to do is on that side facade, which although technically is a
side facade for all intents and purposes, practically operates as another facade that fronts the street because of that gas station being there, you have a straight view of that uh sidewall itself. So, with that being said, what we're looking to do is on that side wall propose a new signage
that will be internally illuminated and that would be illuminated from dust to dawn. Tonight I'm going to have two professionals uh be our expert witnesses. First is going to be my architect and second will be my planner. And if I may, I'd like to call my first witness, my architect, Karolina.
>> Please do. >> You want to swear? >> I can swear. She's going there. I swear there. >> Good. Raise your right hand when we're ready. You swear the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Give us your full name for the record,
please. >> Karolina Potkanovich. K A R O L I N A. Last name P O D K A N O W I CZ. >> Carolina, can you please provide us with your educational credentials and whether or not your license is still in good
standing? >> Uh, sure. So I graduated in um from New York Institute of Technology in 2013. My license uh my architectural license in New Jersey since 2017. My license is current. Uh I am currently employed at
Darmal Kaisal Architects and Engineers here in Livingston. The firm is located at 42 Oakner Parkway and I have testified in front of this board before and many others. >> Great. Does this board accept them as her as an expert in architecture? >> Any questions from the board?
Uh seeing none, uh the board um accepts you as an expert witness in architecture. >> Thank you. All right, Carolina, why don't you walk us through what we're looking to do here? >> Okay, so we are uh looking here at a commercial one-story building uh located
at I'm going to zoom in 615 South Livingston Avenue. The signage in uh we're currently asking uh in the application is signage A on plan right of the building um on the
wall that faces the adjacent property. Uh the sign is 5t off from the ground level. Uh currently it is the size of the sign is 19 ft 2 in long and 8t high.
Um the letters themselves are 2 feet high. There's a 1ft space between the letters and the and the swimmer. And the swimmer here is f um five foot in height. The signage area is
153.336 square ft. Um the signage color is aqua blue uh both for the letters and the logo. Uh the sign thickness here is 3 in as you see in detail number five on the
sheet. The sign illumination is 6 65,000 um 6,500 uh lumens. The signage material is 316 thin thick acrylic white translucent with blue
vinyl overlay face. So it gives that blue tint um and allows the internal inter interior illumination um to illuminate the sign and the outer edges of the signs are uh aluminum.
On the bottom here you you'll see the elevation and large elevation of the signage on that facade. Most of the of the building on that property line is solid. It's masonary. We were trying to enhance the portion of the building that
is the corner closer to the South Livingston Avenue. We enhanced it with a wood trim on top at the parapit level and added a nice signage that ones driving along South Livingston Avenue can see.
>> Thank you. I just have a few questions for you. Um, is it fair to say that the business hours of operation during the week are between 9:00 a.m. and 7:30 p.m.? >> Yes. >> Would also be fair to say that the business operation hours on the weekends
are from 9:00 a.m. to 4 p.m. >> Yes. >> And the proposed internal illumination would be from dust till dawn. >> Yes. >> And the purpose of which is to encourage uh safe wayfinding and emergency services. >> That's correct. I have no further
questions for this witness. >> Testimony is it's for safe wayf finding >> and identification of the building. >> So first color just colorwise just so we can get you know because the ordinance require if it's blue green they'll 200
feet within a uh a traffic signal uh need a variant. So just to be clear on the color just it's not blue green. >> So the color It's going to be consistent with the front facade's blue color. >> Okay. >> Uh we haven't actually selected the illumination color yet, but that was our
thought process just to have that continuity. >> Um also I know that you know traditionally uh I think that this board when there's a uh logo with um some other signage, it's we consider it one
sign, not two sign. So I just want that for the record as well. Um, you know, we don't, you know, consider Swim Quest plus a logo on top as two two separate sides. So that's we consider it as one side. Um, but can we just talk about size? You know, it's >> Yes. >> You know, it's it's, you know, it's
pretty large 100 ft. >> Can you walk us through the dimensions of it again? >> Uh, it's 19t 2 in long and 8 foot high. >> And then how much does it stick out as well? >> Three inches. I'm sorry. 8t by 19 and a half.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> 8 ft from the ground or the sign itself? >> The sign itself is 18 by 19 >> from the ground. It's 5 ft. >> So, Barb, the ordinance doesn't read in square footage, right? But if you did the math, what does it permit?
Um, it permits one second. >> Zoom in. >> The maximum height is 5T. That's allowable under the ordinance. Anything beyond that requires a variance. >> So, we got a total of seven.
>> So, the Yes. The the ordinance permits a maximum height of five feet and the maximum width not shall not exceed 90% of the width of the storefront to which the sign is attached. Yes, >> it is along the side side elevation. Um
so >> so the length of that side is about 137 ft. It's a very long facade and if you notice is a sign is big but when placed on that elevation uh it doesn't seem so big at that corner. So currently the the length of the sign over the overall
length of the of that elevation is about 14%. >> Okay. >> Have you considered just what it would look like if it was at the 5 foot requirement? I believe ear in the early stages of design we did look at it but we felt
this portion of the building was was very plain and we wanted to can introduce a a larger signage to to show that what's happening in the building. Uh it's something new and exciting for the for the town. >> The other issue too is that it's right
adjacent to the gas station itself. So considering the traffic coming in and out, we wanted to make sure that at least be large enough so that one could see it regardless of which way they're coming through. >> You don't have you don't happen to have a rendering with the gas station like >> No. With the views? No. The side angles? No.
>> You know, my problem is it makes that section of the building. >> Do you It makes that section of the building look like a billboard. I mean, I I can't I can't allow I can't see myself voting for a sign that big on the side of the
building. It's not even on the street. It It's not a street facade. It's 160 square feet. I don't think we've ever printed approved a sign half that size and it's illuminated. I mean, people are going to drive by and go, "What in the world went on here?"
That's just my opinion. Well, I think we're going into the justification. So, if I may call my next witness to call my planner to discuss relief for requesting. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Oh, yeah. Thank you. Are there any uh
questions from the audience for this witness as to the witness's testimony? Please come up. >> Make it double. >> Yeah. Thank you, Jackie. glasses. >> Yes. Name name and address, please. >> Yeah. My name is Percy Ketta. I live uh
on 23 East Overgap Road. >> Okay. >> My property is adjacent to the pool. >> Okay. >> I wish you all the luck. I hope it goes good. >> Oh, I'm not the >> Oh, you're the lawyer. Okay. Whoever
who's the owner. Okay. >> And I also agree with the lights is until dawn is a little too much, but it's okay to me. Business and business. I understand. But I have two requests. My property is adjacent. It's a long yard
and the the fence is collapsing and it's embarrassing. And my second request is that all the pine trees because they're huge. at the very tall and they cover all the way provide shade to half my backyard and I cannot plant anything. So
it will be fair for you I think and for me if you take care of your business and I wish you all the best but also on the other side of the spectrum maybe you can fix that fence and maybe you can have because I cannot have it. Again, this is
after this witness is, >> you know, it's not a question for this witness, >> but I think you hear the concern. Um, >> yes. >> Uh, if if you have if you have a question for this witness, now is the time. If you and I don't see this being a very long application, at the at the
end, you'll be able to make you'll be able to make a statement under oath uh on whatever you want to talk about. >> But right now, just >> right now, just this witness about this witness's testimony and then uh at the very end, >> so I'll wait until the end. Right. Right. Then you'll um Thank you. >> Whose fence is it? >> Yeah.
>> We know whose fence it is. >> Whose fence? >> Yeah. >> It belong to the fence. >> No, the fence belongs to the property. The slers. >> It's on the border of your property. >> Yeah. >> So, it's the slice. >> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. So, we'll have you come back under
oath, but but thank you. And >> at least you have a heads up. Got it. >> Something to think about. >> Thank you. >> Just something to chew on as >> something to chew on. Uh any other questions from the audience as to for this witness as to the
witness's testimony only? >> Okay, seeing none. Thank you. >> You swear the testimony given this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Please give us your full name for the record. >> Certainly. My name is Michael Lonzafama.
That's Lan Z F A M A. I'm a licensed professional engineer, land surveyor and planner, licensed in the state of New Jersey. My license is current. I'm a principal with the firm of Casey and Keller Incorporated, 258 Main Street, Milbour, New Jersey. I've testified
before this board on numerous occasions in all three capacities. >> How you testify >> as a planner? Anything any more for your expert? Um, any questions from the board?
>> It's gonna invalidate that application. >> Um, hearing no objection, the board accepts you as a as an expert in planning. >> Thank you. Um, yes, I'm I'm here this evening to talk about the sign that we're proposing uh for the southern facade of of this building. Um, if you
look at the plans that were submitted, I'd like to bring your attention to um the one facade sign or one facade image that was taken from South Livingston Avenue looking down along that facade.
And you see that large blank wall that uh existed there. And part of um the proposal, the analysis that was done u was for wayfinding and I'll get into that in a minute. But um another part of
this was aesthetics. It was our opinion that we could improve the aesthetics. As you're coming in off JFK Parkway onto South Livingston Avenue and you have the lovely gas station there, you you have
an opportunity here to dress up the entrance to your community. And we saw that as a possibility here and that was why we proposed uh the uh the facade sign that we did. Um, in in looking at
that, we thought that that would actually dress up the facade. And Mr. Santo's uh accusation that it's a billboard, I take offense to um that was that was not our intent. Our our intent
was an effort to try and create some graphic artwork that would actually enhance the building. It's no different than a mural you might see on on some of the facades as you go through, >> which are not allowed either. Well, I I
know, but but sometimes you you may want to dress up a building um especially an older building such as this and try and create a situation where somebody actually takes note of it and and granted it it is an advertisement for
the tenant that's within that section of the building, but I I think it really does enhance uh that facade of the building. And that part of my my planning proof as a professional planner was in my opinion that the variance for the additional sign and the illumination
and the size of the sign could be supported under the C2 criteria and that aesthetics would be one of the positive criteria that was being advanced by this application. Um, we also have the general public safety and that is
letting people motorists know full well where uh this site, this this use, this building, the Swimsquest is located because our primary entrance to our parking area is on East Hobart Gap Road.
So, we need to get motorists to make that right-hand turn at East Hobbar Gap Road. And by having the Swim Quest sign in that location, facing that direction, that alerts motorists coming um north on
uh JFK onto South Livingston that boom, there we are. Let's make this right-hand turn at East Tobart and enter the parking lot that's behind the building. So, I think um having the sign there is important and and I and I hear you loud
and clear about the size, but when you look at that massive facade, uh as Carolina said, it's like 137 feet long, 18 feet high, that's a huge facade. And we tried to make the sign proportional
to the building on which it is attached. And we thought we did that. Um, granted, um, you know, you you don't see it with the the gas station there. Uh, I don't have an exhibit of that. Uh, but we do have a a rendering that I believe. Did
we submit that to No. Um, I have it, but I can't get it on this laptop. Um, that I think was really telling for you. And I think the color that you see, it will be similar to the sign that's on the front facade already, which was uh
approved because it's fully compliant. Uh building permit was issued for that. Um the business improvement district looked at the signage and they signed off on it. They felt it was appropriate and and I think it goes a long way in actually beautifying the area. Um, you
may all disagree, but in in my mind, um, this could be accomplished un under the C2 criteria and that we would meet the test of not having a significant impact on the intent and purpose of the zone
plan. Remember the whole issue about illuminated signs was was um initiated because of neighbor complaints, residential neighbor complaints. Here you have signage that's facing a gas station, the fire department across the
street, and just wooded area beyond that. So you're not impacting any residential properties by having this sign illuminated that size at this location. across the street. You have Nero, you have uh other wooded areas
beyond the other side of the intersection. So again, no individual homeowner is going to be impacted by this sign. And I I me personally, I I think it does enhance the building and and I love the color. I think the color is kind of neat, the aqua blue that uh
is being proposed. So the long and the short of it is um we need variance relief for the height. It's three feet larger than what's permitted. Um it it meets the uh requirements under the
ordinance for the length of the sign and the percentage of the facade it's located on. It doesn't exceed the um uh setback or extension off the facade. It's 3 in or less. Uh the color is compliant. It's not going to be um
confused with the traffic light. Um, and that's the purpose of that section of the ordinance. So, the variance we're seeking is um a sign on a facade that's not facing a street or a parking area or the main entrance and it's the second
illuminated sign as well as the overall height. So, if we just look at those three aspects of the ordinance that I believe we violate and we need relief from, I believe that that relief could be granted. we could overcome the the
hurdle of of the municipal land use law that's not going to have a significant impact on adjoining property owners. It's not going to have a negative impact on the zone plan and the zoning ordinance of the township of Livingston. Um I wish I could bring up that um that
>> I have I'm actually looking at I brought up on Google Maps um just to kind of see what the facade that side facade looks like. >> That that's the front facade. >> Um and I'm not I'm personally not troubled. Yeah, there it is. I'm personally not troubled with
uh um you know the uh sign on the side of the building. >> That's >> um but you know Yeah, I was looking you know a lot of that side facade is blocked by the >> Well, hopefully there won't be >> well the the aqua blue truck >> by the um
>> that's they're there all the time. >> So Mike, can I ask a question? So the fact that the sign this the sign isn't fronting on a road >> correct >> right how doesn't that have an impact a negative impact on the zone
>> we the the restriction the restriction >> oh I'm sorry >> the restriction about the number of signs and the additional illumination and the size was the potential impact it would have on residential property owners >> talking about the fact that it's not on
the But but in my mind on the street, >> but it's on at the building facade. You can clearly see from East Hobbar Gap Road because of the adjoining use. >> Yeah, but you could if you drive down Livingston Avenue, you make that
argument about every building as you go. you know, see the side of the building, but the zone, for whatever reason, the council decided, shouldn't allow sideyard signs unless they front on a street >> because they were primarily concerned about adjoining properties such as
residences that would be negatively impacted. Here you have a service station. I >> I don't know whether that's the reason. >> I I believe that's what it was. I >> I think part of it is when you're in the park, you already know where you are. >> Yeah. >> All right. Remember 545 uh Northfield? Mhm.
>> We we got an internally illuminated sign on the side of the dentist's office. >> Yeah. >> We recently approved. >> Well, there was a road there. >> There's a driveway there. >> Well, it used to be a street. >> Well, it wasn't a street. It was never a >> street.
>> Yeah. Mike. >> So, and and if you recall the uh remember Sam's place, uh the what we went through with that. >> Well, that's part of us. That was part of the >> that's not in favor of argument, >> right? Well, that's what I'm saying to
you. That had such a negative impact on adjoining property owners. Here you don't have that scenario. >> Here you have a firehouse, you have a gas station. Um here's an opportunity. >> I'm agreeing with you that it's not a negative impact on the neighbors. My question is the zone plan, right? You
have to satisfy both prongs. And we're told all the time, don't approve these sideyard signs that don't face the street. And I'm not sure how you can make an argument that it doesn't impact the zone plan. >> The municipal land use law that says
that it can't have a significant impact on the zone plan. Granted, it's contrary to the zone plan, but in my mind, it's not a significant impact. That here you're you're getting this opportunity to try and jazz up that entrance into
your community. You're coming you're coming in off of JFK. I've done this millions of times that because that's the way I come from my office every time I come into town and you know you got the Luke Luke oil there and here you
have this blank facade that existed for decades and now you had this opportunity to kind of jazz it up with the uh with the signage we're proposing. >> Used to be windows in there >> that was long time ago. But I think it's, you know, it's two. It's, you
know, first, you know, having, you know, having this sign on the side, but then secondly, >> it's size. >> This this is what what you have up on the screen. There you go. >> This is what we're proposing. >> And that in my mind does not look like a
billboard. >> The reason I suggest it look like a billboard was because the end cap where the I start I didn't I didn't mean to pick on you, Steve. >> No, that's okay. I'm just pointing it out. defending my accusation. >> So, so you can see the aesthetically I I
think it's kind of neat >> and I think I think it really jazzes up that corner. >> If it was on route 10, it would be super cool. >> Here in it's only a few feet too too high. >> Three. >> It's three feet. Three three feet. So,
>> but that proportion is important to the size of the facade you're dealing with. >> Well, most of mo most of that most of the that that side of the building you're not going to see because the gas station, >> but the the vertical height too and and the treatment the the wood treatment on
the top is important. And you could see how it just it to me it just looks like the right size and the right place to be. >> Um, >> so could could we knock off a foot? Maybe. I don't know. I'd have to >> let me ask you a question. So, every
appetitate is supposed to stand on its own, right? We're not supposed to worry about the slippers. >> Absolutely. >> However, you just argued 540 Maine, right? >> Well, I was Let me finish. Go ahead. >> And so, how do we stop everybody along Livingston Avenue, Mount Pleasant Avenue from coming in and saying, "I got a
sideyard. You can see it from the red light and it's jazzes up the building." How do we defend ourselves? >> You got to look at it. You got to you got to study it. You got to look at uh its location on the streetscape. You got to see whether or not it's truly visible
uh as you approach from uh an alternate street. Um you just have to study each one independently, Steve. It's it's the way it is. And you know, my opinion here is I I think it's it's a perfect fit for
this location, for this facade. Um, you may think differently, >> but wouldn't a five foot sign just, you know, achieve the same purpose of identification? >> I don't I don't know if it would really fit. It It would look too I think too small.
>> It >> Well, now it looks too big. >> We can I don't know. We can certainly go back and study it and and see what what might work. Um, >> yeah. I mean, I think part of what undercuts it is that the roof line only
goes a certain portion past that. So, right that it makes the sign look even larger proportionately. I understand you're looking at the entire length of the building. And even if >> you cut it to even if we said that the side was only that portion, I'm sure
you're within the 90% >> right >> requirement or the the length is >> right. The length is not the issue. But it >> but but if you're shrink if you're going to shrink it vertically, you got to get to it's got to be proportional.
>> Tell us a bit about the lighting, please. >> Yeah. >> Wait, wait. >> Sam has a question first before you take >> the the lighting is a is an aqua blue. Uh unfortunately the the rendering is kind of uh it shows the wall as blue, but it actually the the illumination is
blue. Um, do we have a picture of the front sign that was put in? Um, >> there's there's uh the the sign along South Livingston Avenue is already up. >> Yeah, we have. >> Yeah, >> the whole facade looks great. No one's
arguing, >> but I don't see the but it gives you the color >> that that's the it's going to be the same color. >> So, I don't It's not I don't see it on there. Am I not seeing it? >> It's on one of the photos. >> It's on the photo. It's definitely up here. It's obvious. >> It's also not 8 ft tall.
>> It's >> okay. Yes. So, it's it's it's an aqua blue. It's obviously water. That's you know that's >> Mr. Pada. Can we mark the Google Earth shot as A1? >> Thank you.
>> Matt, are you offering this document? >> It be A1. >> You want to describe it for the record? >> No, this one was in the packet. It's the Google Earth. This? >> No, the Google Earth shot that they had up before. >> The one that's up on the screen hasn't been marked. >> No, but that's in the packet.
>> That is in the packet. >> That was in the packet. >> I didn't get it. >> Supposing Seymour. >> That was Steve's >> I apologize. >> That was if the one in the packet had the the facade >> sign that's the front view. This is a
separate photo, >> are they? >> Yeah. >> So So we do have to mark them. >> Yeah. I don't believe this. If we can mark that as exhibit A1. >> Yeah, that's a rendering of the Sinquest. >> Yeah. >> Swim Quest sign on the southern facade.
>> So Mike, how does the business work? Like I assume you buy a package of swim lessons. You come Saturday mornings for >> correct. Correct. It's primarily swim lessons that they do. Occasionally they'll do a party or something. >> Sure. Birthday party, right? But it it's mostly just swim lessons, you know, just
like you take your kid to karate class or you take them to swim class, >> right? So it kind of undercuts a little bit of the wayfinding, right? Because you it's a destination use. You know where you're going. I take my kid every Saturday morning to the YMCA. >> What about the party use itself?
>> The party use would be a little trickier, but you know, you can make another argument that if you see that sign and you're at the light, you should make a right. Right. But you're gonna go straight because the sign's forward. >> I'm not saying people are going to do that. I'm just saying it's a wayfinding sign.
>> It'd be much easier to give people directions as you approach the light coming off JFK. You'll see the Swim Quest sign. Make a right at that at Eastwork Gap Road. And >> I think they'll see the sign. The question is how >> how big it should be. >> I think they'll see the sign from South Orange Avenue. >> Oh, come on.
>> I knew that was coming. >> Um I I I don't know. We You want to take five minutes? >> All right. Uh we'll take a quick fivem minute break. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. What's up? Okay, we're back.
>> Great. Um, so after hearing the comments of this board, we decided to reconvene and uh redesign the proposed signage. and we've agreed to recommend reducing the signage by approximately 25%. Uh the new dimensions would be six by 14. And just
to kind of put this into perspective, the original sign proposal was about 14% of that entire facade side facade. Now it's going to be reduced from 14% to 10%. And getting into the exact math because I think that Mr. Santo is about to ask a
question. I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Lonzo. I'll let somebody else. >> Okay. So, the the reduction in overall height means that we're still one foot over uh the maximum required, but it
would be significantly smaller, 25% smaller. Uh reducing the height and the overall length by uh the overall length being reduced by over five feet. So, we're bringing down the size of the of the sign quite a bit. We we did an exhaustive study on this. So, you we
tried before we even came to the board to fully comply with the ordinance. And we looked at it and the sign looked like a pimple on the side of the building. It just didn't didn't work. And uh we think that this would be a good compromise.
It's not ideal for what we wanted, but I think we could live with this and and we would be hopeful that the board would see that as well. that this is an opportunity to as I said improve the aesthetics of the building and also help with wayfinding. So the we're proposing
is uh six feet high by 14 ft long >> and the height variance gets reduced from 3 to one. Correct. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> It would be the same design with the >> exact on the top lettering on the bottom.
>> Exact same design just proportionately reduced. Uh looking at the A1 which is on the screen, is that a recent photograph? >> That's from Google Maps. >> That >> that's from September 20. Actually, >> that truck we was there tonight when I came by.
>> It looks like there are two trucks or a truck in the van. >> Yeah. >> Is the lettering going to be above the truck as it shown? >> Yeah. Look at if you um if you could put back up the rendering. >> Well, we would you could you could
elevate the the sign. If you look at the the rendering where what happened to the rendering? >> Yeah, we had the rendering up before. >> No, no, >> the one that he had provided by his cell phone. Yes. >> There you go. >> There you go.
>> So, you could see how that would be tucked. Uh, too bad you couldn't have a side by side image. You can see we would tuck that up to the the arching facade. Keep it as high as possible. So, more of it would would be visible over the truck.
>> It wouldn't be blocked by the truck. >> It wouldn't be blocked by the truck. >> Not as the Swim Quest letters, are they the same size as on the front of the building? >> No, that's only a foot high. the front of the building. >> Yeah, they're they're only like they're only like Yeah,
>> they're that sign is like really small. >> Is there a reason why they didn't have the graphic on the front of the building? >> I don't know. I don't know why I would. >> If I may, I call back to answer that question. >> That's a good question.
It's right here. >> So during the design of the front facade, we felt that the the wave itself represented the the the concept for the wood cladding above had a wave within there. So we felt that adding additional
signage with a logo on it was duplicating the the concept. So again going back to the site elevation, it was very plain and exposed. I we felt that the large sign logo there worked greatly with the proportion of the the curved
feature on top and it fit just nicely. >> Will the graphic appear on any other part of the building? >> The wave >> the graphic the swim the swim the swim >> um where does it appear? What other
location? At the at the rear entry >> on the rear of the building by the parking facing the parking lot. >> Yes. What will the new height of the sign be? The bottom of the sign will be at what elevation above the >> So, we're we're reducing the size of the
sign by two feet, the overall height. So, we're going from eight to six. So, the five foot dimension that we currently show uh on the plans that were submitted, I would assume would go up to seven. >> So, it would be 7 ft above ground level. >> Above ground level.
>> Do you know what the height of the truck is that was shown in that photograph? >> Um I would think that's probably about 8 feet. talk to the gas station about somewhere else. >> Still part of this sign would still be obstructed >> possibly unless they finally got rid of
the truck. It looked like it was in pretty bad shape. So, at some point, I think they're going to be junking it. So, >> and and the larger letters on this side as compared to the front is >> um so for reducing it by 25%. So, it' be
18 in instead of 24 in. The letters >> the letter Oh, okay. Letters one and a half ft. >> I assume you just said three. >> Yeah, I thought I heard three feet. >> So those letters would be six inches bigger than the existing letters on the front of the building.
>> Okay. [Laughter] >> So the sign letters would be 18 inches high. Is that what you're saying? >> Is is that correct, Carolina? >> That's correct. >> One last question. We didn't talk about >> for wayfinding. Wouldn't it be better to have the lettering above the graphic if
you want greater visibility? >> I think people identify with the swimmer. Uh there they have a number of facilities. One in Milbour. Um >> I'm guessing that's the logo that appears on everything. Yeah, >> that's the logo for the
[Laughter] >> So that that configuration is recognizable by >> client. We are. >> Yes. >> Did we talk about the lights yet, Michael? >> Um I tried to um illustrate that through
the rendering exhibit. Um, but it really doesn't do it justice because the wall is white is going to be white and the light that illuminates Swim Quest and the swimmer is going to be similar to the color you see on the wall there. So,
it's going to be the light is going to be blue and the background's going to be white. >> And the light above the facade is also going to be blue. >> Um, is that going to be blue also, Carolina? Yeah.
Yes. As far as I'm having trouble reversing the hill and the white drawing. Mike, just a few questions for you. >> Just to reiterate, the new proposal
reduces the overall signage by 25%. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And it also reduces the total signage for this facade from 14 to 10%. >> That's correct. >> And in general, the lettering itself for Swim Quest will go from 24 in to 18 in
in height. >> That's correct. because the overall reduction by 25% will be proportional which is consistent with the logo branding for this company. >> That's correct. We're we're trying to keep everything proportional or consistent with the logo that we've been using since the inception of Swim Quest.
>> And again, it's your testimony here tonight that you had already reviewed a proposal that would be consistent with this municipality zoning ordinance and found that it wouldn't um address the concerns or the aesthetic concerns. >> That's that's correct. >> Thank you. Would
you think about switching the logo and the letters so that the letters don't get blocked by the trucks that are parked there? Well, >> that's what Mr. Valerio asked. >> I know. >> He said no. >> Although he parks trucks there all the time, >> but not here for a long time. There's trucks
there all the time. Has there been any discussion between Windest and the property owner next door? Mike, >> has there been any discussion between the property owner and the gas station? >> We we will certainly do that. It makes sense for us um to to do that and try
and work an arrangement with them so they didn't park high vehicles in there. They just do a a conventional car. It the sign will be above the conventional car. >> Again, the rendering >> correct? >> Yeah.
>> Just park silver BMWs. It's a shame to put a nice sign up there and have it partially blocked. It's going to look >> Sam's Corvette. That's That's true. >> To be to be fair, during the design process, when we we went to the site multiple times, there was never a box truck parked facade.
So, we're talking about 18inch letters and then the how how long then the logo takes up the rest of the space to get >> Yeah, there's a there's a separation of about I guess 9 in between the uh top
of the letters and the bottom of the logo that was one foot. So, it be about I guess about 9 in now something like that. And the logo itself would decrease from 5T previously proposed to 3 ft
>> 75 noc. >> Look, we're just having a little trouble visualizing what it looks like and I was wondering with the rendering whether that would make it easier for us to actually see on a wall. Is it are you referring to the scale or the colors? >> Probably both.
>> I would suggest to open the the submitted drawings where we have the elevation that clearly shows that the there's a blue logo on a white background. >> Where is that? >> Well, I think we got that because we've seen the current sign that's up.
>> Well, no, I don't think that does you does it justice. this one here. >> Well, we're not. >> Just to clarify, you said a blue logo, blue letters on a white background. >> Correct. >> And the lighting is going to be blue.
>> Correct. The same aqua blue. Mhm. >> And that blue is going to be right against the letters in the logo and the drawing. >> Correct. It's going to be >> So, it's blue on blue, right? >> Correct. And And the blue kind of washes onto the white background.
Yeah. >> Like to see it >> like a halo kind of light, >> right? >> I personally would like to see another rendering of, you know, what we've changed here personally. >> Okay. >> Just see it on the wall. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Mark, can you just take it back to the photo of the gas station? So, >> let him go. >> I I think what the chief's looking for is bring the camera back to the light or closer to the light, >> right? >> And put the sign in
>> like a like a photoshop. >> Photoshop of the sign >> and superimpose the sign onto an actual photograph of the building. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, we'll we'll make sure the blue truck is gone >> in the in the appropriate colors.
You need to mark this super if he photoshops. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Google Earth. >> I don't know what day that is. >> Lauren, what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I agree. >> I mean, you're you're in fairness, we're
not trying to be the bad guys, but you're asking for, you know, a couple big variances on something that >> we would have to live with. >> Yeah. And and our neighbors have to live with. >> Right. I'm less concerned about the I mean their logo is their logo and I think if people see the swimmer that
will signal a truck isn't going to be blocking all of the lettering at one time but I do think it would be helpful for everybody on this board to see a updated rendering or Photoshop image. >> The one thing I wanted to clarify is regarding the logo and the illumination
of the logo. I believe there was some confusion. >> The the logo will only be illuminated internally. There will be no back lighting of the logo onto the facade. So it will be a crisp
logo lines onto the white background. There was no halo effect. Uh >> there's not. Okay. >> And to to clarify, those letters you're saying are 12 in and the ones that we're talking about now will be 18 in. Is that correct?
>> With the reduction of the signage by 25%. Yes. >> Right. We're looking on this just so we can all hopefully picture this better. >> Those letters are 12 in high and we're talking about what what you're asking us to approve is now 18 in. >> Yes.
>> Correct. Thank you. >> And what's the gap between the letters here in this particular sign? >> Gap between each letter. Each letter like and the sign on the side that uh we are here for the gap between each letter is 9 in
>> right? >> No no >> no it's 9 in the 9 in would be >> 9 in vertically >> between the actual logo and the text. >> Okay. >> So not between the letters. >> What is the gap between the letters? I
would say two inches. >> Two inches right here. And even on the site >> on the site, depends on the proportion of the signage. Might be more, slightly more since it's a larger sign. >> They're all the same proportion. Both signs are going to be the same
proportions. >> So, I just want to say too that I think what you've done to the building is great. I think the facade, the way you orchestrated the mansard, >> um, to your point jazzes up the bill. We
just got to get this last piece of it, right? >> Sure. Fair enough. >> Do I ask the D? If it's 10, which it is >> the sign that the wall is not
>> I know that, but it doesn't look this that was tracked like >> I mean can you come back with a rendering and then we can just see what it looks like and get get the board comfortable with with size and we can see whether that's something that this board would approve. >> Yes, we can absolutely do what we like
to do is come back a rendering of a the originally proposed signage and the new proposal so you can see it by contrast. >> The one thing I would ask if it would be acceptable to those boards since it appears we're on the goal line. Would it be possible that the next hearing on this application also adopt the
resolution if on the affirmative? >> You know, because we'll have you our next meeting is the second, so we'll have you come back on the second. Um and >> December. >> Yeah, December 2nd. Um and we can hopefully you'll take care of that. >> No, I think he's saying can we
resolution? >> Can we what? >> Pre-draft resolution. >> Well, we can we can >> that'll be up to Mr. Yeah. >> You got it. >> Thank you guys very much. >> So, so this is uh continue to December
2nd uh 7:30. So, we'll come So, we'll be back on December 2nd, 7:30. There will not be this is your notice of that next hearing. So, if you want to come back on the on that. So, December 2nd here at 7:30 again and this will be continued on
that date. Sure. [Music] >> Oh, so see that my request was so I how do I go about that to make that request to the slers? >> Well, I'm sorry. >> He's going to talk to the slers first. >> Yeah. >> How do I make that request to the slers? Because
>> after Yeah. Why don't you two chat and then I guess you two can kind >> cuz I posted to one of the brothers and he wasn't too friendly. He passed away >> Andy. >> I apologize. He said you're >> Mark that is extremely dangerous and
there's accidents like all the time. >> I think the bigger the sign the better. The less people have to be scanning and looking. >> It's just safer if it's there's going to be kids in the cars. I think the bigger the sign the better because people are like already are crashing there and if it's going to be busy and there's going
to be new people coming they absolutely should be much easier for them to come in and identify the building. So I think the bigger the better. I I know they've compromised maybe you can come back on the second we'll be happy to and then we you can you know make a statement under oath. Be happy to
>> to hear it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I did not say that. >> Okay. Okay. So, um, >> thank you very much. >> All right. So, so, uh, notice for the second. No further notice that is required. Thank you. >> Uh, with that, we are adjourned.
You can go home and watch the Giants play.