Okay. Good evening. This is a regular meeting of Livingston's planning board and notice of this meeting has been published in accordance with the open public meetings act. >> Thanks Jack. If you can take the role please. >> Mr. Ratner. >> Yes. >> Miss F.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Duffford. >> Yes. >> Mr. Batani >> here. >> Miss Bishu >> here. >> Miss Ko >> here. >> Vice Chair Sanola >> here. >> Chairman Fernandez >> here. >> We have our quorum. We have a board attorney, our planner, and our assistant engineer.
>> Thank you. If you can uh call the first matter. >> That matter scheduled for this evening is preliminary and final site plan with variances for block 1407 lot 1166 West Mount Pleasant Avenue, application number 2025-88-PFSP,
Somerset Regal Bank. >> Thank you. Um are there any members of the public here? All right, then I I will uh do away with our introductory couple of paragraphs and uh just move on immediately into the
application. >> Thank you very much. Um it's a pleasure to be here. It's been a while since I've been in Livingston. It was always a pleasure. So I'm happy to be back. >> Um my name is Susan Rubé. I am an attorney with Brock Iller in Rosland, New Jersey. and I am here tonight on
behalf of the applicant, Somerset Regal Bank. We have a number of witnesses which um I will go through. Um as um as Jackie noticed noted, um the property is located at 66 West Mount Pleasant Avenue. It's block 1407, lot 11. The
property is 1.35 acres in size. It's located in the B1 zone and banks are a permitted use. There is uh there is an existing building um in which the bank is located. The bank is located on the first floor. There are other office uses
in the building as well. The applicant proposes to add a canopy structure with a drivein out that is accessory to the bank building along with directional signs on the canopy. No changes to the site are proposed other than the
addition of the canopy structure. The canopy structure is being added to the location of the two of two of the parking spaces that are closest to the building. The impervious coverage will be reduced slightly as the area of the
pavement between the canopy and the building will be removed and landscaped. The number of parking spaces on site will not be affected. The vehicles that will park in the two spaces that accommodate the canopy would otherwise
have been used by customers that would park closest to the to the entrance and then use either the um would use either go inside or would use the auto teller. So now they're going to be able to just pull in, use the teller um machine and
uh be able to then back out. We're seeking the following approvals, preliminary and final site plan approval, C variances. Our witnesses are David Orbach to my uh to my right. He's the executive chairman
of SR Bank Corp and executive vice chairman of Somerset Regal Bank and he will qualify himself. Our engineer is Fred Stewart and Sean Moransky is our planner. We have the uh profession professionals reports and we will address them in turn.
So without further ado, >> yes, >> Susan, before you begin, all of the witnesses that you're going to call, if you can please stand up and step forward. And I'm going to ask the board professionals to stand up as well. Raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm that the testimony that you're going to provide in this hearing is the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. I do. >> Okay. And then um from left to right, just take your name for the record. So we have a record took you >> left to right. You're left. Uh, why don't we start with you? >> Question. >> Hi,
>> question. >> My name is David Orbach. O R B A C H. >> Uh, Sean Moransky, M O R O N S KI, uh, professional planner. >> Fred Stewart, S E W A R T, professional engineer and land surveyor.
>> Uh, Barbara Alen, Ehn, planner for the township of Livingston. Uh, Roco Maruchui, M UCCCI, Assistant Tum Engineer, port engineer. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, I would like to um qualify Mr. or back and then have him go over um
just what what the plan is um why we're doing why the bank is doing that doing the um the the in-out um structure and um >> I'm sorry just to clarify you said qualify is is is the witness here as a
fact witness or an expert witness? >> Fact witness. >> Okay. So he doesn't need to be qualified. >> All right. Okay. >> Point taken. Thank you. I'm going to cross off qualify in my I never mind. You don't need to know. Okay. All right. David get intro. So, David Orbach, um, just David, just go through briefly
>> to so that we can Sure. So, the board has an understanding of your role at the at the at the bank, how long you've been there. Sure. >> Um, and then talk about the the capacity and the time. >> Sure. Well, first of all, thank you so much. Happy to be back here. Uh I was actually commenting earlier that uh
about 18 years ago I was here at this same planning board when we were looking for our approval when we opened up Regal Bank our headquarters up uh up east up Route 10 on 570 Mount Pleasant. So it's kind of funny how quickly time flies that I'm back here again but for a different building. Anyway, as Susan
said I'm David Orbach. I'm executive chairman of SR Bank which is the parent public company of Somerset Regal Bank of which I'm the executive vice chairman and I served in that position. I mean this position because we merged with another bank a few years ago. Uh but prior to that I was the chairman of
Regal Bank as mentioned since 2007. So I've pretty much held the same position but different name of the bank uh since then. Um so now as at 66 at the the current property location uh we have a full service commercial bank. We operate six days. Uh Monday through Friday we
operate from 9:00 to 5:00. Saturdays we're open from 8:30 to 12. We don't have any Sunday hours. Uh we have about 29 employees within the bank. We have a uh full service branch and we also have our back office operations on the first floor of the building. Uh we have a three to four tellers currently there
depending on obviously everyone's schedule and and uh and and time off. Uh currently we do not have any drive up or drive-in capacity on the property. And uh that what the reason why we're doing this is because um due to the layout of
the parking lot and the space requirements and the in and out between route 10 and the side road uh a typical drive through which is pretty much what every bank in New Jersey has is just not feasible uh on the site plan. Uh we came
up with this concept as a drive up uh we thought it was a very good solution because you're not taking away any existing parking spots. Uh right now people park in those spots to come use the bank. Now we'd just be putting a canopy over it. So instead of parking using the bank having to deal with the
weather or or anything like that, they'd just be parking in doing their transactions through the num through the tube that runs through the building to the teller line backing out just like they would normally do at a normal parking spot. So >> So David, just let me let me just ask you a couple questions if I'm right. Um,
so the the the spaces are existing parking spaces, correct? That that p that customers use. So they pull in, they pull out um after they've either gone into the bank or use is there's an there's a teller out uh an auto an
automatic teller outside. >> Well, I mean to be clear, the spots that we're talking about are the two closest to the building. They're not designated for bank only use. So technically anyone in the in the building could use it. We we occupy the entire first floor of the bank and there's only half half the
spaces occupied from other tenants upstairs. So typically those spaces are utilized by bank either by customers or or employees employees are typically told to park a little bit further back. So the spaces closest to the building could be utilized by customers. But
right now people would pull into the spot, they'd get out of their car, they'd walk into the building, they conduct their transactions, go back to the spot, pull back out. What we're proposing is putting a canopy over that, running a tube just like a normal driveth through would have, but this would not be a drive-thru. It would be a
drive in and pull it back out. Kind of like the oldfashioned uh I guess drive-in uh restaurants that used to have that, but obviously you're not sending food through the tube. Here you're sending transa, you know, deposits or whatnot. Um
>> how long how long do you think that process will take? Have you estimated that to pull in and then do the >> Well, right now when people come in, depending on how much of a transaction they do, uh either they go into the teller, they're conducting their normal business and they're going back out or
if they have some more involved work, uh opening up new accounts, it takes a little bit more time. But a typical transaction, if they're just making a deposit or or withdrawal, depending on how how many accounts they're they're doing. But this this solution doesn't really affect parking at all because
those same spots would be utilized regardless whether they're conducting transactions and getting out of the car and going into the building or conducting a transaction through a video screen and sending their their work through a tube that runs to the teller line. So your in your opinion as as um in your
position at the bank um the location that that this is being placed is that is that the best one from the access and customer service standpoints? Is there any other place that you think it would be better? >> Uh no, I think we we chose those spots because it's the it's the closest to the
building. It's the closest uh you know the longer the further away from the building you get the longer the tube has to go which means the longer the person has to wait for it to go through suction or vacuum to the teller and then back out. Uh this gives visibility to the
cars from within the bank. Even though this is going to be still a monitor at the teller line it's the shortest uh run uh to get the deposit or whatever whatever type of trend paperwork they're sending through the tube to the bank. And uh it also alleviates some some uh
safety concerns because right now when let's say elderly or the or other people that don't want if it's raining or snowing and they don't want to deal with the weather, we've seen people pull up, you know, I don't say they leave their car idling, but someone pull up, wait outside right by the bushes further
towards the the entrance of the bank to run in to try to escape the weather. Here they wouldn't have obviously that's the safety concern. We don't tell them to do that. People just do that. We can't prevent that. But here, people would have a canopy that overhangs two of the spots. They'd pull and they'd be able to do their their work without
having to deal with the weather. >> Good idea. >> Um, >> and again, the pulling in and the pulling out is what they're doing now anyway to park. So, pulling in and pulling out with a canopy over them to do their work. Wouldn't wouldn't change the mechanics of of the parking. So, one
of the questions that the board engineer asked was um his comment number two on page two of his report was what's the what is the anticipate anticipated turnover and volume? Um I'm I'm thinking that that means how many people and how
quickly can they you think they will will be able to go in and out if you I mean if if and how many during the day? >> I mean it's hard it's hard to tell. I mean, there are some days when our branches is quite busy, and there's some days that they're that it's not, depending on the hour, depending on what's going on. Again, there's plenty
of spots and designated spaces for people to still use uh when they're coming into the bank. If those two spots are taken and people are conducting their transactions that way, they still have bank designated spots that we have in the front of the building to use regardless. And it's easy to see that
those two spots would be taken if uh if if so. >> Okay, good. Um, we need some variances, correct? Bulk variances. And, um, we will be, um, we do have a professional planner who will be testifying about this. Okay. >> Um,
anything else you want to tell the board? >> No, it's pretty much it. tried to keep it as as minimally evasive as possible. And we thought this was a great solution without having the traditional drive-thru, which would not only be feasible in this in this location, but
would require a lot more variances to get rid of parking spots and and a lot more to do. >> Thank you. Thank you. Opening this to the No, they're gonna Oh, sorry. Any questions? They can now ask you questions. Uh >> any questions from the board uh for this
witness? Yeah. other tenants in the building. >> Yes, >> there are. Right. >> Yes. >> How much of the parking lot is allotted to them or is it allotted or is it first come first serve?
>> It's first the only allotted spaces are there's I think eight or 10 uh bank only parking in the front and everything else is first come first served >> and it's usually pretty full I would guess. Uh, no. I mean, of the on any given day, I'd say about
in the entire parking lot, there's maybe a quarter to a third of the spaces are empty >> because the whole the whole second floor is not is not tenanted. It's only about half the building on the upstairs is tenanted. >> It's not rented yet. >> There's there's vacant space upstairs.
>> So, there could be another tenant in which would >> there >> bring more cars. There could be, but I was at that lo I was in that same building at a prior bank when the building was fully tented tenanted and the bank had even more employees and the building had more employees and the
parking lot was never ever full. >> So just to clarify your testimony is that it's between a quarter to a third uh full now and >> no quarter to a third empty now. >> Empty. >> Okay. Quarter >> not today. So that if if
>> if this if the second floor were to become um tenited, there would be still be in your opinion there would be adequate. >> Yeah. Because the vacant space upstairs uh that I know uh would not yield 20 to 30 or 40 spots. I mean it's not that big
of vacant spaces. So I I can't even conceive of again like I said I was in that building 20 20 some years ago when it was totally rented. Everything is 100% occupied and that the parking lot was never full. >> And again, we're not taking away spaces here. We're just re utilizing two
spaces. >> Have you used a system like this at any of your other branches? >> No, we No, it's using this traditional driveth through uh system with a tube and and it's just instead of going in, driving through and going in one way, exiting another way, you're just pulling
in and then pulling back pulling back out. Although other than that, the mechanics of the tube and the drive drive. >> Yeah, I'm just talking about the the pulling in and pulling out the process as opposed to driving through. Have you done something similar to this? >> But again, people are pulling in and
pulling out and just getting out of their car. Here, they're just staying in their car and then pulling in and pulling out. >> Mhm. >> And these are transactions primarily with an ATM or something like that. >> No, this is not ATM. This is just teller teller doing. So, if someone wanted to use the ATM, they would have to park in
a regular spot and go to the ATM. And if they wanted to open up an account or do something with the customer service rep, they'd have to come into the bank. This is purely for transactional work through the teller, making a deposit, getting change, you know, making withdrawal, something that would be just with with a
teller interaction, not not a customer service. >> Okay. Thank you. Jack, how come we don't have half sheets? >> Any any other questions from members of the board? Uh any questions from members of the
public? Seeing none, um you like call your next witness. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Sure. Um thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Fred Stewart, who is our site engineer. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. I'm going to put the plan up.
>> Okay. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Um, do I >> And having having been sworn in >> I know that's I was waiting for that and then I remembered we >> we want to just why don't we just get get qualifications first? >> Sure. Okay. Sure. Um, Mr. Steuart, if
you could give the board the benefit of your educational and professional background and for whom you work at the present time. >> Sure. I received my certificate in surveying in 1986 from County College of Morris. Uh received my surveyor's license in 1991 from the state of New
Jersey. Uh received my bachelors of science from NJIT in 1996. Received my engineers license in 1999 from the state of New Jersey. Been practicing in the surveying and engineering field since 1984. um had my own business since the year
2000 and have testified before numerous boards throughout northern New Jersey such as this this one and on similar projects as well. >> I don't think I've been here for quite a long time though. >> Well, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh any questions from the board? Uh any
objections? >> Okay. The board accepts you as an expert and he's being offered in engineering. >> Uh surveying >> surveying engineering. Okay. Surveying and engineering. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank Thank you. >> Um so Mr. Stewart, if you could just go through, you know, briefly and just even
though I introduced it, go through the um the aspects of the property, the address, the zone, and then describe the existing building, the existing parking access, um just to sort of set the set the scene for where we're where we're
asking for the relief. >> Sure. Okay. Okay, I'm going be referring to my plans which are revised to 1114 2025 of which the board should have a copy of uh some larger copies as well. Uh we're at 66 West Mount Pleasant A, uh
lot 11, block 1407. Uh we're in the B1 zone. We do front or the building does front on Mount Pleasant AB, but we also have some frontage on North Mitchell that we do not utilize basically for any access whatsoever. Um, I'll just go to my second page here and zoom in a little
bit. There we go. To the left of the drawing here is uh West Mount Pleasant A. Uh, we do have a PA walkway which leads from the public sidewalk into the front of the building, front door of the building. Uh, we have
an access driveway on the east side or right side of the building, which is a common access drive for our lot, lot 11, and also lot 12. And that does exit out onto North Mitchell through lot 12 in this area here.
Um, proceeding down that access drive, you basically go into our parking area. There's no parking in the front of the building, just parking in the rear. There are 91 parking stalls in the rear of the building. There's also a rear entry door, which is the main entrance for the bank. Uh, because that's where
everybody parks. They enter the bank through the middle of the building right here. That's the entry door. There is a walk up ATM that is located to the right of the doorway. That's what those ballers are protecting right there on the right side of the door.
Okay. The uh topography on the site is gently sloping basically heading towards North Mitchell going from west to east sloping downward. Uh gentle slope I think there's about two foot difference in slope or elevation from the left side of the property or west side of the
property to the east side of property in this location here. So, as you can see, it's a very gently sloped property. >> We're not changing any of that, right? >> We're not changing any of the topography. >> Uh there's no flood plane, no wetlands, or no riparian buffers on the site or near the site.
So, let's go to my third sheet, which will show our proposed improvement. As you can see, it's minor in nature because it's off the northwest corner of the building located in this area here. Uh, as stated earlier, it's taking up
two existing parking stalls. And actually, let me go to my fourth sheet, which does have a blowup of that area. There we go. This is in the upper right hand corner of the plans on the fourth sheet.
To the left side of this detail area is our existing building. As you can see, the shaded darker shaded area is the proposed canopy. The canopy is 12 foot deep, I'll call it, by 18 foot wide. So, it's basically a little
bit bigger than a parking stall. Your normal parking stall or typical parking stall today is 9 by8. This is 12 by 18 for the canopy. that will cover two of two of the um existing parking stalls mainly on one partially on the other
because you only need to cover the driver side portion of that area anyway to get out of the elements. Uh so in placing the canopy here we are removing some asphalt mainly to construct the improvements and constructing a concrete island
for the second parking stall quote which is all the way to the right. Uh that island will house the uh the structure itself which are the two um supports or piles coming up from the ground to support the canopy located in the front and the back. Uh that will also have the
unit the customer unit within the center of that on each side of that one first parking stall. You have the one for the second stall to the right and one for the first stall to the left. So that that's where the uh the islands will be able to have the supports in it and
along with the customer units. Uh we are curbing those those parking stalls. Uh the one to the left will have curb coming along here going to up to the existing edge of pavement. That area there that I'm circling right now will
be removed. The pavement will be removed and in its place most of it will be a planter area now. So that's our reduction of the >> So just Mr. Sword. So that's the area um between the building fronted the the building structure and the new um the
new structure. >> That's correct. >> Right. Because we're >> That's correct. That'll be the area between the new canopy >> and the existing building. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> Okay. So this that will be a triangle area that will be was pavement will now be a planter. >> Okay. Thanks. Thank you.
>> Now the location of the structure it's going to be 7.2 2 ft from the building, the closest corner, and the further corner will be 12.4 ft because it's on a slight skew. Uh but the 7.2 ft, that's a varying situation because within your ordinance, uh we're
required to be uh the height of the structure away from the existing building. So the height of this canopy is at 11 ft to the highest point. It's a flat roof canopy and that that's the distance we're supposed to be. So therefore, it's a variance for that. Uh
same with the uh westerly boundary line which is up towards the top of the drawing here. Same type of setup where you have to have an 11 foot uh offset because that's what's required the height of that structure. We're at 6.9 ft. So those are
the two variances that we are seeking uh for this structure from for the uh for the yards and the offset to the building. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh let's see. So the idea here is just to saw cut out the pavement,
place in the concrete islands or island and the concrete curb on the one side and construct the canopy and replace the pavement and repair as necessary and provide any other striping that we need to that is damaged during this process.
>> Is there going to be directional signage to this structure now? >> Yes, there is. There will be. I'll I'll get to that next so I can stay on my drawing. >> I'm sorry. >> That's okay. >> That's okay. >> Uh so let's see. There was one more thing. Oh, the lighting for the canopy. Got
>> uh we do have four lights or recess lights within the canopy. So there's no you're not going to see the uh any globe or anything of the light. It's going to be recessed just like you have here, the high hats here. Uh there's four units, two for each um customer unit that'll be
shining down on that unit. So there'll be sufficient lighting for that and that will help with the security of the area as well. As far as any plantings with that within that uh landscaped area, they're just going to be low-lying bushes that we are proposing there. Minimal height in nature. We don't want
large bushes of course in the planting area, especially next to an ATM. Basically for security purposes. Let's see. As far as the parking goes, like as you you heard earlier, 91 stalls total are existing. We're using two
stalls which are still parking stalls and will be used for the bank as well. Uh and will still be used for the bank. Um so within your ordinance, you are required to have one parking stall for every 200 square ft of building area or net floor
area of the bank. Our our net floor area of the bank itself is 2,912 square ft. Dividing that by 200 ft gives us 15 required stalls for the bank. As far as the remainder of the building, there's 18,614
square ft. We are required to have one parking stall for every 250 ft of office space. That's what we have there. So dividing the 18614 by 250 gives us 75 required parking stalls for the remainder of the building besides the
bank. So the total number of stalls required to have on site is 90. We have 91. So we still meet the required parking for the site. As far as the signage goes, we do have four existing signs on the
building which I'll introduce. Uh go back to my third sheet just for location purposes. Our main sign on the west Mount Pleasant A frontage is located on
the southeastly portion of the of the building which is right in this section here. Uh that sign is 42.5 square ft. Uh we have a secondary sign on the rear corner of the building uh which is the northeasterly corner. That sign square
footage at 24.7 square ft. We have a small directional sign for Somerset Bank which is located I'll call that again on the southeasterly corner of the building on the easterly side just to point to the parking uh which is located here. It's probably about 5 ft off the ground
or so. Uh that's a six square foot sign that's more directional in nature. And then we have an ATM sign backed by the ATM of course, a walk up ATM, which is located right in this section to the right of the doorway from the rear parking or from the parking area. And
that's at 6.7 square ft. So existing wise, we have 79.9 square ft. Uh required, you're allowed to have 10% of the square footage of the front of the building. The building's 26 ft high by 125 ft long, which equates to 3,250
square ft. 10% of that's 325. So, as you can see, we're way under the required amount of signage for the building. 325 is required maximum. We're at 79.9 for the existing. Now, as far as the >> not just the parking, the signs facing
the parking lot. >> Is that a >> uh that's a good question. I'm not 100% sure. No. >> No. >> Is that I mean that's not a permitted sign. I don't part of the original approvals. >> I not sure on that.
>> Yeah, you should come on up. >> The only >> the only illuminated sign is the one that fronts uh route 10. >> Okay. >> Oh, and then of course the ATM at night obviously. Oh, the ATM is lit as well for the
>> It's >> the ATM sign. >> The sign is not illuminated. They have a light that shines onto the onto the sign, but the the only sign that's fully illuminated within the sign is the one that fronts through 10. >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> good question. >> Okay, now here's our proposed signs for
the ATM. I'm sorry, for drive up Canopy. As you can see on the left side of the drawing, we have an open and close sign for the lane open or closed. Uh we have a sign in the middle of the canopy uh stating Somerset Regal Bank with the
drive up with two hours going going to either side of the uh canopy for the drive up area. And that is located on the parking side or the face side of the canopy. I'll just go back to my drawings here. I I'll say right here. There we go.
Which is this face of the canopy right here. That's where those signs are. >> That's along the front >> along the front of the canopy or main parking area side of the canopy where you drive to it. >> It's the entrance into the parking space. Would that be >> well put? Yes. The entrance into the
parking stall. That's where you'll be able to see the sign, enter, pull in, do your transaction, back back out, and go on your merry way back out to Mount West Mount Pleasant. A >> So, there's three new signs or four? >> There's going to be
Well, there will be one new sign for the Somerset Regal Bank drive up located in the middle of the canopy. >> Right. the other two be lit or >> Yes, >> it will be lit. >> Okay. So, those two sides, the same
sign, night view and day view. Okay, that's my question. >> And then there'll be an open and close sign. That's more directional, >> right? >> So, okay. I did uh just recall within I think it's your engineers report uh to have a canopy height on on this canopy
as well. So that's going to be in addition to what we have here uh to show the canopy height at a um basically it's be about 9 ft. Yes, 9 ft to the lower side of the canopy. Okay. So that should do it.
So >> is a >> so you need a number of variances then for for all this for the signage then >> yes our our planner will review >> we'll go through the list of variances that we are required to have >> correct >> um
>> yes um going to the site layout there's a pa area along the building's rear elevation >> yes that >> this area here >> is That is that reserved just for pedestrians or can vehicles traverse that as well? >> No, vehicles can traverse that as well.
It's it's same level as the asphalt. It's more decorative, but it it is drivable. >> Is there uh circulation arrows on site? Like are the drive aisles one way or the drive aisles two-way?
>> I don't recall any. I do believe I had them. might be shown, but >> maybe David can answer that. >> There's no directional uh markings on the pavement right now. They're both they're they're uh there's no restriction both ways. >> Are they wide enough to go in either
direction? >> Yes, the aisles are wide enough to go in either direction. Did the >> Did the applicant have any ideas on when cars are accessing those two parking stalls?
Um was there thought of additional directional signage to say they should loop through the site um to queue or you know as those the parking stalls along the side are are not 90°. They're kind of So do the cars
>> Yeah. loop through. >> There's no signage for directional driving because looking or being on the site, the the aisles are two-way aisles. Um that is 60° parking along the Wesley
boundary only. So typically anybody in that stall will be kind of have the ability to um back out and then go out towards the building, make the left and make the right. My concern is, and the board may disagree, is that if people come in and make a left to go into those
stalls, >> okay, >> then they're trying to go into a 60° stall. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. Like it's uh on a slight angle, therefore they're heading it kind of in the wrong way to make their maneuver. >> So if someone comes this way and then
someone comes this way. >> Okay, I understand. I I I feel there's enough room for somebody to manage that at least for the first stall uh for first drive up section. The second one might be a little bit more difficult like you're stating because the fact is you're coming over and then having to
>> and I guess >> come back on it. >> The other concern might be if there's two >> how are vehicles queuing like is is >> I think that's the million dollar question. like where's the third car go?
>> And and I don't want >> or for example, I don't want or my concern is is that if there's two cars cute on one side and two cars cute on the other, are they going to be like >> I was here first. >> Blow your horn. >> Well, blow your horn. I like that
answer. But but yeah, go ahead, baby. >> No, the only comment I'm saying is right now if someone wants to park in those spots because it's closest to the building, there'd be the same issue, right? if if someone wants to park there and get closest to the building. >> I I don't disagree, but now you're offering a service. Uh which is which is
fine. It's just um for example, I believe we've all been in those drive-throughs that have like the two lanes that go into one and everyone's always watching to see who actually got into the queue at what time >> to see who will get to the service. And
so my concern is is that you're going to have cars queuing up along the rear of the building and then cars queuing up perpendicular to the building and they're going to be having >> discussions about whose turn it is. >> Understood. I I think um
in this type of that type of situation >> uh this drive up is only open during business hours. I'm if I believe that's correct. Making that assumption. And if that if the drive up is full, they still have the ability to park
>> and walk into the bank. >> Would you consider adding additional directional signage that would direct vehicles to loop through the parking lot and to queue up on that western drive aisle >> along the westerly side line of this parking area here
>> so that they wouldn't be able to queue up in two different locations. >> Meaning I mean just to clar just so I understand what that mean. Yeah. >> I mean, I know what directional sign is, but they want a striping on the on the payment that says one way or >> I would say like a um striping or paint
painting on the ground to say drive up with a directional hour arrow to come in and go this way. >> If you all can see where I'm pointing here, >> come up this aisle for the drive up and just have drive up maybe with a turn here. Drive up with a turn. So, they
will queue up like you're stating uh up in this aisle here if they want to wait for the for drive up to open >> because then they would still have access to parking if they don't want to wait. >> Correct. >> That's actually a very good idea to help direction all around the site.
>> And maybe additionally, you may want to consider giving no entry on the not no entry, but it's not for the drive pullup. >> Yeah. >> ATM on the other side perpend perpendicular to the building. that that's actually a good idea to have that just to assist in directional movement
on the site. Right. >> Okay. >> And I sort of just want to point out the the there's 10 designated spots for the bank only right in front of the entrance. Um if you those first 10 spots right there are bank only spots. So that's, you know, if someone could
clearly see that there's two people within the the the uh the canopy, they would easily pull into any of those 10 designated spots right in front of the building and either wait there or but but we'll we're amendable to what your recommendation was. >> How does the second car in know to leave
in so the guy can back out? Number one, back out >> this uh vehicle waiting. >> Yeah, the first vehicle. the first there's room for either vehicle to back out. >> Well, I'm just saying in a normal drive-thru, I'm going to the bank. I'm
going to the pharmacy, the car wash. You pull right up behind the person because you're not expecting they're going to have to back out, right? They're going to go out. They're going to go forward. So, how does anybody know to leave room for the for the backout? >> It's just like if you're waiting for a parking stall in a shopping center, it's
the same idea. If you want to access that stall as somebody's getting in their car, you stop away from them so they can back out. >> But that's a move everybody's made a thousand times. Like people I mean I understand the second or third time they get there, they all figured it out. >> But the first time everyone goes
through, they're going to have no idea to wait for somebody to back give somebody back. >> I think the difference is on a typical drive-thru, what I would say a typical drive-thru, you see that there's nothing in front of it. So you wait here you could on the on the side of the parking there's clearly uh on the what is that the north the the
west side of the parking there's there's cur there's a Belgian block curb throughout that runs the entire length of the of the parking lot which is clear clearly seen so anyone that pulls towards the parking towards the canopy will easily see the other property there
on the Belgian block and I think it's even a higher elevation so the sight line would would not yield though we're counting on the second driver to >> no >> figure the situation out. >> What What if >> I mean I think if you there it's it's
pretty self-explanatory obvious that you can't drive through because of the the curbing on the western side of the property, the increased elevation on the western side of property and and the visibility that you'll still have with with the canopy there. And what about if there's three cars
queued up >> and somebody comes out of the bank and is parked or comes out of their office is parked on the curb? >> That was my question. I'm I'm parked there and now there's two or three cars queued behind me and I can't pull I can't pull out my parking space.
>> I don't understand why people would be queuing three. It's on It's not a typical drive through where there's space to queue. It's it's a parking lot. It's It's just a wait for >> So So you're assuming that there won't be any queuing at all. There's If it's
open, somebody's going to pull in. If If somebody's there, they're going to go park someplace else and go into the bank. >> I believe. Yes. I believe there's be no queuing. Again, the entire parking lot is not is never full. There's there's at least 25 to 30% open spots. And I think that if anyone pulls in and there's two
people there, they're either going to loop back around and pull into one of the bank only spots and wait or come into the bank or pull into one any of the other spots that are open and then wait until someone leaves. >> Especially if you have the oneway directional only >> signage that you're proposing. when they
make the directional signage. What if you make a signage saying that the next car should be 10 ft behind and not just right behind the car that's parked inside uh under in these in this area. So, at least if if I'm the next person,
I know, okay, I must stop here because there's somebody else doing business and they have to reverse and go out. So, you're you're contemplating some kind of a a keep keep um a sign that would say to keep an adequate distance and maybe specify 10 ft. Um
>> something that the chaos >> striking something on the pavement, >> right? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Almost like a do not the block. >> Do not block. >> We can have the inclement day, people are going to be queuing up to use that so they don't have to get out of the car and go to the
bank. And on those inclement days, they may not see the signage on the >> Yeah, we can um we can actually do something similar to what you're suggesting is a like a stop bar and just have on the ground because there's really no
uh good placement for a sign in this area in the middle of a parking parking lot. So, you can just put a stop bar on the ground like two stalls back >> like right in this section here >> and say stop here for drive-thru or
something. Some sort of verbiage like that. >> I think you should consider on the the big sign that says drive up, maybe it should say drive in back out so everybody reads it above before they get hooked. >> Some sort of terminology like that.
that. >> Yeah, >> that way no one will accidentally drive forward. >> Drive in and out. >> Wait here until green or something like that. >> I I do like the the um the idea of the stop bar >> because that'll tell somebody, hey,
there's a big stop bar here. >> So, if somebody's in the in there, I can cue here and proceed once they get they're done with their transaction. I think that's the best uh solution for that. And we we could put it two stalls back to give them plenty of room to back
out. um either one of those uh customers within the drive up. >> Do do you have exp do you have experience with other types of drive ins similar to this in any other location? >> Yes, I know of one other >> okay
>> that I have seen in operation. It's not used that much. It's a similar situation. It's right at the near the building and it's not your typical drive-thru where you would have, you know, people coming in and out. It's
more of a convenience. If somebody doesn't want to get out of their car, be honest with you. They just come up, drive into it, do their transaction, back out. >> Um, not much difference than parking and going into the bank. It saves you a couple minutes probably. Uh, but I have
seen it in action and it's not as busy as a drive-thru, that's for sure. So, >> and I wanted to ask you, you said you have 15 spots allotted to you, assigned to the bank. 15 parking spots. >> That's what's required >> for the 2900 square f feet. >> Yeah. Right. That's what's required.
>> So, these two are in addition to the 15 or in part of the 15. >> Part of the 15. >> Part of the 15. So, we're not using more spots than you're assigned. >> No, no, I don't think it's sign. I think what we would have to have I mean there's 10 designated spots for bank only. We would need 15 spots to qualify
for our spots. But we have the access to the entire parking lot, I believe, is what is what the testimony was. >> Yeah. Right. Right now you have 10 assigned currently. This will be an additional two. >> So 12 assigned total throughout the
parking area where we're required to have 15. >> They're taking assigned 12 stalls out of that parking area. >> And and you uh are not the landlord yourself, are you? >> No, I'm the tenant. >> The landlord is okay with two additional spots assigned for for the bank. they they were okay with this whole concept.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to go forward. I I still have concerns about, you know, the the the parking, you know, up on, you know, the what would be the west side, you know, with uh you know, people pulling in, people pulling out and people trying to, you
know, use the um you know, use the drive drive in and then backing out. I just go to my fourth sheet. I don't quite have it.
I I do believe we put like a stop bar here with some verbiage below it. Uh just stating stop here for um >> drive up >> for drive up. I I think the concern is more that if cars are stacked behind
that stop bar, if cars can pull out from the parking stalls adjoining where they're queuing, so not the the drive in >> the ones uh to the south, which is you're you're in essence blocking the other stalls if there is a queue.
>> Right. So, one one thing maybe to consider, and I'm just throwing this out there, is maybe those first couple stalls beyond the carport are employee parking stalls. So, it's not a high turnover, right? So, if you're they're parked there all day and they're kind of
sitting there, you don't have to worry about that conflict of that stall backing out and being blocked by a queue. >> Mh. >> Um, so there's two things, right? There's there's the person that pulls up, tries to pull into the carport and blocks the other guy from backing out,
but then it also blocks the queue also blocks the stalls for the cars that are parked beyond that. >> That's an option. >> That's fine. I mean, I'm we're we're okay with that. I mean, a lot of employees park there now anyway because they get there early and they want to start there. I just want to also point out some color. I mean, with the advent
of of online banking and digital banking and everything, the I know the the whole I remember being here 20 years ago when we're going for a drive through uh at the other location, we had room for six cars or eight cars and they're saying, "Well, what happens if there's eight or 10 cars to stack?" 20 years ago, we
didn't have any of these digital banking that happens now. The traffic within a branch is a lot different than it was now. And the only time people really want to come into the bank, they have to go to the customer service desk where they can't use a drive up. they would have to actually park. Right now, we're trying to So, it's really the stacking
problem I don't believe is as much of an issue as it was as it was 20 years ago. We're okay with with making those first spots employee only. So, at least it blocks it off. Also, it also what we're also proposing is right now when there's acclimate weather, as I mentioned before, some people are pulling up right to the front of the building and idling
their car and running in e leaving the car unattended or having the driver wait for them and running into the bank and using that, which not only blocks the interest and the and the bushes in the front, but is also not not safe. And this would, I think, help for those people that don't follow the rules and
and it'll help them as well. And again by by when you the typical driving through the bank to to access the bank parking is coming up the eastern side of the building and then making a left and then either using one of the 10 designated bank spots uh right behind the building. Right when you make that
left and you see you'll be able to see the canopy and whether there's a car or two in there or not. Someone could easily go right into one of the designated spots before even making the loop around if there are two cars in there. And if not, they could just pull into a spot and wait uh until until
one's open. So, it's it's unlike a traditional drive-thru where you're pulling right up to the drive-thru and you now you're stacking behind them or you have to go around them. The visibility to the canopy right when you pull into the parking lot is is right there. That I I think uh alleviates some
of the concern. And again, people right now back in and out of that spot anyway. So, if you really wanted to get closest to the building, you may be waiting there anyway for someone to move, which which never I've never seen happen. But I understand we're providing a service by having a canopy and so people may want
to get out of the weather. But I I think the visibility that that the canopy gives from all parts of the parking lot uh is different than the traditional drive-thru where you just come in and you're now stacking behind. >> So, we could have like the first four
stalls be employee only. Yeah, that's fine. >> So, this is not an inexpensive endeavor, right? You pneumatic tube, you got to do the whole thing, >> correct? >> Was there an analysis done of how many transactions you do a day that would move to the outside like to make
customers happy to get an understanding of that? >> No. >> To help us decide. >> This is our biggest brand. This is our biggest branch. We've been in Livingston for 18 years. Uh since 2007, we opened different locations throughout town. This is where we combine the bu the the
locations into this one building. We're just trying to provide a service to our customers. I mean, every bank pretty much has a drive-thru. Chase across the street has a drive-thru. All the other banks have a drive-thru. We can't do a drive-thru because we would be standing here and trying to eliminate spots and we we don't have we have one spot to
spare in the entire building. So, we would need to do it and there's no feasible way to to put it in a parking lot where you have joint access to the to lot 12 to the lot 12 business and two means of ingress and egress through to throughout 10 and north Mitchell Avenue. So, this is just a way to come up with a
clever design utilizing the spots the same way that they are now. The only thing that we're doing is add So, they're still pulling in and pulling out the same way that they would if they were parking and coming into the bank. The only difference is putting up a canopy to protect them from the weather. And this was the the best way we thought
to come up with the solution to just provide a service. It could be that people we're not going to get any more business out of it and and people or and we won't lose business because of it. We haven't lost business because we don't have it. We're just trying to provide an extra service and being a full service
branch uh bank to our to our customers and trying to do whatever we can to help make them happy. >> And I don't want you to think we're singling you out when the banks come in for drive-throughs or the pharmacy like >> Yeah. >> Is there a real analysis? is they're a bypass. What happens if somebody gets sick and they can't back out? They
forgot their ATM card. I know. >> So, like, you know, we don't want a be a holy mess with three people backed up and people can't get out of a spot and there's fist fights. >> I'm I'm aware. >> I recall from 18 years ago.
>> You didn't even >> And just for the note, we never had 10 cards stacked there on route 10. The most we ever had was four. >> I mean, I only that's two by two. work out. That's good. So, the worst never happened. >> The worst didn't even come close to happening last time, but I understand the the analysis and what your
responsibilities are. >> If there two cars queued up, then you can't get to the westerly driveway. So it if you come in to make a left turn and there's two cars too,
you can't keep going and make a right into the westerly driveway. >> Okay. >> You have to figure out how to go up the easternly driveway. >> Okay. >> I see. >> I would love to see >> where you where you just so I understand. >> Well, a west of the driveway that's
property line. >> So >> would be blocked if there's two cars queued up. I'm on the to >> we're going to direct drive up customers to make a right hand turn right here to come down this aisle >> and loop around the back.
>> Correct. >> And here the first >> the first aisle right here. >> So we're going to have a >> a drive up arrow. Yeah. >> Right here to direct them aisle up and around. I see. Okay.
So, let's just do a little math. If you did the stop bar so somebody could back out and then you reserve the first four spaces to this to the to the right because I don't know the direction to the right of the um overhang. That's how
many feet back. So, what one car could queue? Could two cars queue in the over the employee spaces? >> That would be uh one one car if we do the stop bar here. which would be the second one. If we did the first one, it would be two. Now we have two in the queue.
>> We make another couple parking spaces further down employees. >> We can do whatever we want. >> All right. I mean, would it would it would it be easier? Would it work better for you if you were to come back and just ask for a parking variance? I mean, how how many
spaces would you lose? >> A parking variance for what? >> Um, if you put a regular a full drive-thru in >> you it wouldn't work. I we've done this analysis back when it was Norcrown Bank. I've done this analysis when it was Regal Bank. I've done this analysis now.
You can't to to do a drive up, a full a regular drive-thru at the back of the property. >> Yeah. you're talking uh I mean just by guesstimating we we came up with you lose what 8 10 spots. It's not like one spot because think of what a typical drive-thru facility with two drive-through lanes
>> and queuing. >> Yeah. You're going to have >> you're going to lose at least the the back eight to 10 spots right there. >> Okay. >> I've we've tried it. >> That's why we came up with this concept. And I never even thought of this concept till I saw it in another bank that that
had it. I can't recall the exact bank that it was, but >> well, it's really not dissimilar to what you're seeing at like Target, you know, where you run somebody brings the product out to you. Kings has a spot like that. >> It's just it's going to get so much more
use. I I think because you just have one >> and >> two >> two, right? But you got to make sure that they're you know that they're going to be when there's a queue is the issue. Any other
any other questions from our board professionals? >> I think we still have one more testimony to to go. >> So, um >> Oh, thank you. So, in listening to the testimony and
the back and forth and the various concerns that were raised, I started writing various thoughts down like the first four stalls for employees, putting in a stop line, a traffic direction,
additional signage. Um, and I don't know if this is some I mean there's clearly um concerns from various members of the boards that have been raised with this and I don't know if this would be helpful but as a potential condition of
approval if the applicant would agree to work with the board's professionals take the guidance of the board professionals in terms of how these issues can be addressed assuming they can be addressed. If they can't, I guess
the board would need to know that. But if they could be addressed and then as a condition, you would take you would work with the board's professionals, take their counsel, and then your plans would be updated to incorporate all of their
suggestions. So, it's memorialized because I don't know how else a resolution could be crafted that could capture all of the back and forth and I don't even know what would address your concerns or the board's concerns or not.
Um, but but I think that's it seems like that's a conversation that's more detailed uh than tonight. And I I don't think that you'd be able to flush all of those concerns out adequately tonight.
>> Well, we have heard quite a number of recommendations and I think that what I've heard is that they're >> is that they're they're acceptable and that they're helpful. Um so I'm not and those some of them came from the board professionals. So if there's something
that we I'm not sure how the process would work for that. Well, the process would work that a condition of approval is that the applicant would sit with the board professionals. The board professionals would would would work with you to to address the concerns to
the satisfaction of the professionals and that you would submit revised plans that would incorporate all of those changes so that they're memorialized, >> right? And that that we wouldn't have to come back to the board. No. And we would could possibly list, you know, you could
possibly list some of what was discussed or >> No, no, it would be a condition of approval, >> right? >> And that you wouldn't get your uh permits to begin. >> No, I understand that. I'm just I'm just trying to get an understanding of what
level of detail you wanted to put in a resolution or if you wanted to leave it more open-ended, which is what it sounds like. >> What I'm suggesting is open-ended. The condition of approval is the applicant meets with the board professionals to confer >> that you would update your plans to the
satisfaction of the board professionals. That's all the resolution would say otherwise we would have to spend the four or five hours in drilling in minutia and I'd have to list every single thing in the resolution which I don't think is the way that I don't
think that's I don't think that's helpful. So the the board s that the the professional suggestions may or may not include some of the comments that have already been made. >> Correct. >> Like where exactly the stop right and >> how many signs whether you're going to have >> rather than giving all that discretion
to our professionals. Why don't we have them amend the plans and come back and let us do everything. >> You could do that too. You could you could >> then Rocco and and and the gang don't have to be have all this put upon. >> You could you could absolutely do that too. You could we could continue this application where you could work with
them >> uh submit revised plans and then and then the entire board can have the revised plans in front of them to take >> the the heat off the professionals in terms of >> I see the payment markings that you're proposing and
>> because I think I think you heard from from the board what some of the things that we would want to see in it. Um, so I I think we already, you know, have a framework of of what, you know, we would want to see.
>> Yeah. I would like to see a a plan showing >> okay >> uh queued cars drawn in from a a clearance standpoint so that we can instead of saying they'll walk or they won't >> if if this uh facility is built where it
is and there's two or three cars queued up. I'd like to see them drawn in on a plant to see what they do to the rest of the parking lot. It's also subject. >> Okay. >> It's taking this and making it bigger and put driveways. Actually,
>> can I ask one more question? >> Do you need two? Does it make it easier if you just do one? >> Can we can we caucus for couple minutes? Course. Of course. And then Yeah. >> Let you know what our thoughts are. >> Let's take a break. Yeah.
All right. >> Bye. Mr. >> Okay, we're ready. >> Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um there have been many helpful and considerate um comments and I think what we would like to do is sort of take everything
under consideration and revise plans according to some of the uh the decision uh some of the conversations that we've had some of the comments that we've had um and we would like to amend the plans and then come back >> okay for you. >> Um how long do you think that would take you just for scheduling? Uh, what do you
think? No, I can speak to to um >> Shouldn't take long. >> How long? >> Two weeks. We'll have it back in two weeks as >> I can just email and discuss with them and have it back in about two weeks. My stuff anyway. >> All right. So then, >> so one of our when is what are some next
meeting dates? Let's throw a couple out and then we'll see what will work for everybody. >> And Susan, while we're while they're looking at the dates, um, I did hear Mr. Santoola comment that there might be a sign an existing sign that um is not
permitted and all of these discussions with the addition of the signs and I I as you know I'm I'm new to this I don't know what the ordinance is in Livingston but I suspect that >> in order to resolve this issue you might
have to add some additional sea relief for variances from the sign ordinances which your planner can address you know I don't think we should add those as well. >> I don't think the the signs were all approved. I don't I don't know. >> So the sign in the back that extra sign
is was really the question. Is your plan here? >> The signs that are other than the illuminated signs which we which were we got a permit for and and were approved question >> the back and everything else. We just replaced the exist the signs that were there but that valley had we just took off and put the exact same. >> So that was already approved. Then that
was really the question whether that one was >> it was the same size that same same size that Valley's sign was and the same size >> the only thing that's being suggested is if if it somehow wasn't approved that we just incorporated into here we just get cleaned up. That's all. >> Yeah. I just boots and you know belts and suspenders. That's all. >> Yeah, that was that was the only reason.
Bring it up >> and then whatever is worked out if that requires some additional relief just let's >> let's add that in. There could be there could be some additional there's some additional signage perhaps that we're going to need. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> You know how they are. >> I know how they are. >> Um so yeah, what we would like to do is is um if we can get a hearing date adjourned without need for further notice that would be helpful to us. >> So >> yeah, Mr. Chairman, that would be uh Tuesday, March 3rd.
>> Will March 3rd work for everybody? I think we're all >> I guess if it's a problem then we can adjourn it again if there's if something isn't ready. So So the matter is then continue till March. >> Wait wait wait just so we get the amended plans in like two weeks before so the professionals can see when we get
in our packet >> 100%. Not a problem. >> Yeah. Okay. So the matters continue to March 3rd at uh 7 um uh 7:30. Um no further notice is required. This is your public notice. Okay. Thank you so much.
>> Thank you all. Thank you very much. >> March 30. I was thinking February. No, March. Exactly. Tuesday, March. Good. >> Oh, yeah. Richie's not here. So, can I have a motion to adjurnn?
>> So, move. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. It's